can I ask about salary range before accepting an interview?A reader writes:

I have held the same position since graduation. I did not have to interview for this position because I came in as a temp through a friend’s mother who was a manager in our department. I am looking to move on. However, I am only interested in leaving if I am getting more money than I currently make at this position.

I work from 9 to 5 which means that to interview, I will have to take time off from my present position. We are losing staff and so I do not want to inconvenience my office by taking time away to interview for a position if it is not in the league of what I want, salary-wise. I was contacted about a position I applied for and am supposed to contact the manager to set up an interview. Is it rude to ask about the salary range before an interview is even set up? If it is less than what I make now, I would not be interested and I do not want to take time away just to be told that the range is less than what I am looking for and have wasted our time and inconvenieced our office for nothing.

Is it so wrong to want to know what kind of salary you could be looking at? Not specifics, of course. but people work for paychecks. Why must we pretend it’s not a determining factor? We’re not talking about interviewing for a six-figure position here. These are entry-level jobs, not careers.

This is an infuriating and nonsensical convention, isn’t it?

Of course you should be able to ask about salary before committing your time or theirs to talking further. But for some inexplicable reason, the convention is typically not to raise the topic until they do, or at least until you’re further along in the process. That doesn’t mean that you can’t do it … but while some employers will be completely fine with it, others will be a little weird about it, because you’re taking the timeline for raising it out of their hands (god forbid!) and they see themselves as the ones controlling the process. So it depends on how much you’re willing to risk putting them off. Not that they should be put off by it, but they still might be. (This is especially true at more junior level positions, which this probably is if this is your second post-graduation job.)

So you have three choices:

1. Decide that you’re willing to risk putting them off because it’s important enough to you to know up-front. In this case, you’d say something like this:  “I hope you don’t mind me asking at this stage, but because it’s difficult for me to take time off work to interview, is it possible to give me a sense of the salary range so that we can make sure we’re in the same ballpark before we move forward?

Of course, if you’re going to bring the topic up, you need to be willing to share what you’re looking for (just as I’d argue that employers who raise the topic should be willing to share the salary range they’re planning on, even though they often won’t). So if they respond with, “What kind of range are you looking for?” then you’d need to be ready to answer that.

2. Option #2 is to decide that you’re not willing to risk putting them off and that you’ll invest the time in finding out more about the employer and the job, even though there’s a chance that you’ll be too far apart on salary. After all, if the salary ends up not being right, you still might have made useful contacts and could be considered for other jobs there in the future.

3. A third path is to do your own research on what similar positions in your industry and geographic area typically pay, and simply assume that they’re going to be in that range. (You’ve hopefully done this type of research already and are basing your expectations on it anyway, right?)

And actually, there’s a fourth option, which is to combine #1 and #2 — meaning don’t ask now, but if it starts to look like there are going to be multiple steps to their hiring process, you could ask then (saying something like what I recommended in this post).

And here’s to some mythical day in the future where we’ll all end the silly coyness around salary.

dumb interviewing convention #45: you will sin against God if you ask what a job paysHere’s something I have a problem with: the idea that it’s somehow wrong for a candidate to ask about salary in a first interview.

This BS idea is all over the place:

Asking about salary and benefits in the first interview “always turns me off. I’m always disappointed when they ask this, especially in the first interview.” – Norma Beasant, founder of Talento Human Resources Consulting and an HR consultant at the University of Minnesota

If you ask about salary in the first interview, “it makes you look as though you’re applying for the job because of the money. That [can] seem too mercenary.” — Ray Brizendine, the director of a national executive recruiting firm

“Never ask about salary and benefits. Don’t ask any questions related to your needs.” – Louise Garver, executive coach

You, job seekers, are apparently all seeking jobs out of the kindness of your hearts, out of a desire to be industrious and assist companies in their pursuits. You are certainly not interested in what kind of compensation you will receive for your work.

This is ridiculous.

I absolutely agree that you don’t want initial conversations with an employer to be all about what they can do for you, putting all your focus on benefit details and so forth. You want the focus to be on what you will do together — the work you’ll be achieving. But to pretend that salary is some kind of minor side issue, something that is only appropriate to discuss at the end, only once you’ve determined everything else is right — come on.

Salary is one of the few factors that can trump everything else and make the rest of the discussion irrelevant — it doesn’t matter how interesting the work and how right your fit for it if the job pays 30% under market. It’s entirely reasonable to discuss it early on.

Penalizing job seekers for inquiring about something so central to why they’d take the job in the first place betrays a serious lack of common sense, as well as something disgustingly arrogant – as if job seekers should simply be grateful to have been granted an audience with an employer and shouldn’t jeopardize that by anything so vulgar as acknowledging that they’ll be working for money.

Catherine July 19, 2012 at 2:42 pm

The “stop talking” tactic works wonders. I finally had a conversation with my boss yesterday about a promotion, and I stopped talking at certain points, which is usually quite difficult for me, and just waited for his response. It really drove my points home, it makes what you are saying more matter-of-fact.

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1. Jamie July 20, 2012 at 10:37 am

I learned this at my first job. My boss (mentor extraordinaire) coached me that the owner of the company (who was coming by to personally offer me a promotion) was the king of the stop talking technique.

I was told that he enjoyed the long awkward silences as people generally start talking to fill the dead air and trip themselves up. Knowing this I met stop talking with stop talking and it worked well.

I’ve used this lesson in countless situations since and rumor has it I’m not the reigning expert in deliberate silences.

Anonymous July 19, 2012 at 3:01 pm

Can you or the second reader suggest a good strategy for negotiating other perks in lieu of a higher salary?

I’m cautiously expecting an offer in the near future. Based on a previous conversation with an HR rep where I narrowly managed to avoid getting trapped negotiating salary with HR (instead of the hiring manager) for an offer I didn’t even yet have, I think their pre-approved budgeted range tops out only $2-3k below where I’d like to be. The HR rep also indicated that depending on how strong the other candidates are, the hiring managers may or may not be able to go over the pre-approved budgeted range.

In the event their budget is firm, I’m open to negotiating other perks instead of a higher salary. In particular, being able to work remotely one day a week would be worth a $2-3k pay cut to me, since it’d save me upwards of 45 hours each year in commute time, allow me to take care of household chores while I’m working, and give me more time home with my family and pets. I know I would start with something like, “I understand that your range for this position is firm, but truthfully I was anticipating a slightly higher salary. That said, I’m excited about this opportunity and hope we can work out something that will fit within your budget while meeting my needs.” What is important is not the money. The question that I am asking "Will I make a difference at the higher level and globally?".

Then it ends with something like, “In lieu of the salary I requested, I’d be satisfied to accept the salary you offered along with an arrangement to work remotely one day per week.”

Should there be a transition sentence between those parts? Something like, “I’m taking into consideration the entire benefits package when calculating my requirements,” or should I just jump right to my proposal? Should I include a pre-emptive caveat like, “I understand if there needs to be an initial period while I’m still training and learning my new role where I would come to the office five days a week,” or does that fall under “stop talking” and see if the company says that?

On a related note, would asking for a regular telework arrangement up front be seen as a negative? Another possible perk I considered negotiating for is increased vacation time. An extra week of vacation would be worth a $2-3k pay cut to me (and a good deal for the company, since a week’s pay would be significantly less than the $2-3k I’m after). Would the employer be more likely to negotiate vacation time than a telework arrangement? Or might it be more easy to negotiate vacation time now and ask for telework after being hired, whereas it’s less likely to be possible to negotiate additional vacation time after hiring?

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1. Ask a Manager July 19, 2012 at 3:11 pm

I wouldn’t word it as “In lieu of the salary I requested, I’d be satisfied to accept the salary you offered along with an arrangement to work remotely one day per week,” which is very … formal or something. Instead, I’d say something like “Since we’re a little bit apart on salary, would you be open to me working remotely one day a week?” I don’t think you need a transition beyond what you have here. Less tends to be better; don’t overcomplicate it.

I think it’s fine to ask for this up-front if the role lends itself to it.

2. AdAgencyChick July 19, 2012 at 4:16 pm

I strongly suspect it’s easier to get a week’s vacation than a telecommuting arrangement, mostly because the latter is more visible to other employees. (Of course they will notice you’re gone when you’re on vacation, but I don’t think most people keep a running tally and remember how much time everyone in the office gets.) Which may not mean you won’t get it, but it does mean that the hiring manager may be thinking, “If I give her what she’s asking for, then Bob, Fred, and Janie might ask for the same thing.”

Whatever you do, if you successfully negotiate something like this, GET IT IN WRITING. It’s far too easy for people to change their minds. One job I worked at when I was a recent grad said that I could telecommute one day a week during the off-season. This worked for the first few months I was there, but come the next off-season, when I reminded my boss I’d be telecommuting one day a week again, she said oh, no, no, no, that’s not okay, and she couldn’t possibly have agreed to that. Again, I suspect it’s easier to hold onto an extra week of vacation than it is to keep a telecommuting benefit. Suppose you get a new boss — he or she might say, “This arrangement doesn’t work for me.” But it’s harder to deny extra vacation that’s in your offer letter and that probably involves some kind of confirmation from an HR department.

1. Tel July 19, 2012 at 6:21 pm

Ugh, that happened to my in a job. The person who hired me allowed me to leave early two days a week. Well, the person left the company and the new boss said I couldn’t do this.

Another co-worker who had a similar arrangement (she could come in later in the day) was able to keep those hours because she had an offer in writing from many years back and when the new boss confronted her, she simply brought a copy of it to the office and the boss backed off.

The new boss turned out to be an alcoholic and a bully with huge issues, by the way, and got canned but after that I was never able to regain my hours. Sad, but true.

Ask for raises, confident people get them more often than high performers in a heavy bureaucracyOn a small sidenote, the one person who got the most out of us was a highly aggressive, very smart, very confident woman. She nearly doubled the initial offer, which due to how she marketed herself was already pretty high.

companies don't pay you what you're worth, they pay you what you fight for (of course, you also have to be worth what you're expecting).