Russian Dive watch History

Author Message

Koimaster Member

Subject: Russian Dive watch History Sun Sep 13, 2009 1:59 pm

There has been a long running debate on the history of the Russian

Divers all over the web. I posted at other forums the first post and at one particular forum the thread grew to 4 pages. This is not a bash but

information to be used for a collector and for a novice who is looking

to clear the air on this particular watch style.

http://www.netgrafik.ch/history_of_russian_watches.htm

From the site

Time keeps ticking...

An overview over Russians watchmaking history sorted by factory.

For most western watch enthusiasts, the bulk of Russia's watchmaking

history is nothing more than a compendium of hazy legends and

whimsical rumors. However, the factual history is no less compelling than its fabulous history, and even a brief introduction to the great and

not-so-great watchmakers of russias past makes a visit far more

rewarding. By the way, nowhere does Invicta show up in these links

but a google search for Russian Dive watches turns up almost all Invicta "russian divers".

As far as I know, Invicta had nothing to do with the Russian Dive

watches. What is interesting though is comparing the review to what

is posted at the website.

A portion from Jim Skelton’s Review:

"Eyal Lalo (President & CEO of Invicta Watch) was given one of the

original Russian Divers by his grandmother and used that for a basis

for this design. The original was carefully taken apart so that every

part of it could be inspected, measured and replicated as closely as possible. "

From the Invicta website;

This time they have tackled a design they made in 1959 which was

commissioned for the Russian Naval Fleet. The former Soviet Union

commissioned roughly 100 pieces to be made by Invicta in Switzerland

for their elite divers in their Navy, and proved to be one of the last

Swiss manufactures used by the USSR. Designed to be worn over a

diver's suit this is a huge watch with large numerals and hands for

better legibility under water, and in the dark. Protecting the crown is a large screwdown "cap" which tightens down for water resistance.

Eyal Lalo (President & CEO of Invicta Watch) was given one of the

original Russian Divers by his grandmother and has decided to use that for a basis for this design. Completely replicating this original took a

lot of work by creating this one-off oversized case, and unique vintage

dial. The original was carefully taken apart so that every part of it

could be inspected, measured, and replicated as closely as possible. Invicta has surpassed the original by utilizing a stronger compound of

Tritnite luminescent material on the dial, and a completely reworked

and skeletonized Swiss Unitas movement. All of the work was

performed in their newly built Swiss factory and it exhibits all of the finish and quality of any high end Swiss Made product.

Excerpts from a reveiw of the original Diver by Ed

The ORIGINAL RUSSIAN DIVER: Zlatoust Diver's Watch

The Zlatoust diver's watch is big, really big. I've owned alarm clocks that weren't this big. How big, well its 58mm in diameter (not

including the huge canteen crown which brings the overall width to

74mm!), 24mm in thickness (which is thicker than the width of many a

ladies watch), the lugs are 24mm wide, lug to lug the watch measures 73mm and the it weighs 10oz. The Zlatoust uses a one piece case

design (the movement is installed through the front) with an unusual

screw-down bezel to hold the thick acrylic crystal tight against a

rubber gasket. The watch ships with a sort of rubberized canvas band

(complete with CCCP logo).

In addition to the odd band, the bezel unscrews completely to allow

the wearer to remove the protective grill and place a thicker (included)

gasket in its place. The lug pins are of a screwed in type and can be removed with the small screwdriver that also came with the watch.

The huge canteen style crown screws down and has a rubber gasket to

protect the movement from water. An attached chain keeps the crown

from getting lost. The numerals and hands on the watch face are luminous and, in a pleasant surprise, the lume is pretty good. The

movement on this model is the same one used in the old First State

Watch Factory Type One. It is a 15 jewel hand wound mechanism that

must be wound once daily by unscrewing and partially removing the canteen crown cover.

The Zlatoust watch factory has an interesting history. During WWII,

the one of the Moscow watch factories was evacuated east to Zlatoust

in the Chelyabinsk region to avoid being captured or destroyed by the advancing Nazi army. (many other Russian factories were moved this

way as well) There, watch and clock production was quickly brought

back online. According to the factory, over 90 percent of the clocks

installed in Soviet tanks and aircraft were made at Zlatoust. After the

war, the factory continued to produce all sorts of clocks and watches including stopwatches and this huge diver watch. (As an aside, they

don’t just make watches in Zlatoust. This place was also the center of

the old Soviet nuclear weapons industry. See: Zlatoust . It is also

reputed to be one of the most contaminated places in the world as well.

Of course there is always a new version of events........ The story has

changed at least 4 times in the last couple of years.

"As I have stated on more shows than I can count... Invicta did not

create the Russian Diver.

The Russian Navy came to Invicta and asked them to make a Swiss Made version (the first non-Russian version) of their existing Russian

Diver design. Invicta did, and only made 100 to be given by the

Russian government to the officers exclusively. Later on (2003) Eyal

decided to replicate this original watch for release in 2004. "

There has been a lot of confusion on the watch of course. I respoded to

the above quote

No one, including myself is arguing that point. A lot of new members

may not know the history between the Russian Navy and Invicta nor

the history of the company in general.

From what I have found:

Invicta Watch Group is a Florida-based watch company founded in

1837 by Raphael Picard in La Chaux-de-fonds, Switzerland. The Picard family owned and operated the company until 1991, when the

company was purchased by a United States-based investment

company.

In fact, there is very little out there on the original company. Almost as

if it never existed. The post is for information. Many confuse the part

Invicta has played in the development of the watch.

These two photos below are from a friend at another forum, Auto

Movement. The photos below are copyrighted so please do not copy

them with his consent.

The watch on the left is an Invicta, the one on the right an original RD

ВМФ = Военно-Морском Флоте, or Military-Marine Fleet.

ИМФ = Imaginary Marine Fleet? Invicta Marketing Fable?

Has anyone else familiar with Russian watches heard this story about Invicta being commissioned to create a limited run of 100 pieces for

the Soviet Navy anywhere other than Invicta's marketing department.

It's been repeated faithfully by those who promote and sell Invicta

watches, and has made the rounds on watch sites, etc., but I've never

seen a picture, old article, or reference to an original 1959 anywhere.

Some people I have run across have been collecting Soviet-era timepieces for over 20 years, specializing in military - particularly

Navy pieces, and have never come across any such watch. Never heard

of another collector having one, or giving much credence to the

possibility of such a thing.

If anyone has an *actual* 1959 Invicta-made ВМФ diver, I'd love to

see it, it would be worth a small fortune - not to mention one of the

most sought after pieces ever.

There seems to be two variations to the story. One, promoted by

Invicta in which they provided 100 pieces *in 1959* for the elite Soviet navy divers, and the second that Invicta created a special

*commemorative* batch of 100 as gifts for party officials/high ranking

officers, presumably also in 1959.

I don't think it happened, as I've never found any corroborating evidence to support either scenario.

I would love to be wrong, as I truly wish these pieces exist (so I can

collect them).

It would be nice to see even a photo of these. The communists were

famous for pomp and circumstance and kept complete records of all of

these things. Somewhere in the world one of these watches exists or photos of it exist.

In the interest of fairness here, I am not going to post any responses from ownership of the site to spare Alan pulling out the rest of his hair.

I have posted without names a couple of the posts made aside from

mine. They are from the same person as is the one below.

Well, I have the watch that was warn by Yuri Gagarin on his first space

flight. I can show it to you. I've even posted pictures of it on the

internet. What more proof do you need that it is authentic?

Many of the watches in my collection have the original factory

"passport", including date of manufacture, serial number, etc. As

Invicta made 100 of these watches, SOME documentation must exist in

their records.

Invicta did not,AFAIK, produce their own ebauches then, so there

would be a manifest of purchased unfinished ebauches from

Unitas/whomever. There would be an export record from the Swiss

government documenting the delivery to the Soviet Union.

A list of serial numbers, dates of manufacture, photos of the exchange

- after all, that's a pretty big deal to present a limited run of only 100

watches that would have cost Invicta a fair amount of money to tool

up for the production run. They would want to document the event, I would think.

Maybe I am expecting too much from a Swiss watchmaker in terms of

record keeping?