6 — NYFC Newsletter

R ichard M. Wilson, the man behind the “Old Flutes” website[www.oldflutes.com], is known to the flute world as a scholar, collector, andperformer. However, most of his weekdays are spent working at his day job

at the California Institute of Technology, where he is a professor of mathematicswith research interests in the field of combinatorics. Rick earned degrees in mathfrom Indiana University (AB, 1966) and Ohio State University (PhD, 1969). Heregularly performs with various period instrument groups in the Pasadena area,and enjoys showcasing his collection of historical (c.1750–c.1930) flutes in lecturedemonstrations around the country. He agreed to this email interview because, inhis words, “I love to talk about flutes and flute-related things....”

interests outside of mathematics then.The recorder allowed me to play musicwith others. It was my first seriousinstrument. Two good friends, DougLeonard and Suzanne Ferguson, coachedme on basic music and recorder tech-nique, introduced me to historical per-formance practices, and encouraged meto study period sources like the treatisesof J.-M. Hotteterre (1707) and J. J.Quantz (1752). The recorder got meinterested in renaissance and baroquemusic, and the instruments of those peri-ods. Soon Doug took up the baroqueflute, and in 1978, I ordered a moderncopy of a baroque flute for myself. Irealized that the flute would let me godeeper and further into the 18th centurythan the recorder would.

KS: What got you started as a collector?RW: On a six-week mathematical visitto Holland in 1977, I bought two 19thcentury English boxwood flutes from anantique shop in Amsterdam. Thesewere my first flutes, acquired before Iordered a baroque flute. One was asmall flute with one key and the other

RICK WILSON AND THE“OLD FLUTES” WEBSITE

Interview by Katherine Saenger

a four-key flute. They were madec.1830, though I had been led tobelieve that they were older when Ibought them.

I was fortunate, when on a sabbati-cal leave visiting the University of Lon-don in 1978–79, to be able to takebaroque flute lessons with StephenPreston. Stephen was one of the pio-neers on baroque flute. But he wasalso seriously interested in and veryknowledgeable about 19th centuryflutes. He was a huge influence on me,both then and also later, at theWildacres Retreat in North Carolina.Nancy Toff’s The Development of theModern Flute also helped to pique myinterest in early flutes.

When in London, I purchased afew more 19th century flutes, mostlyjust because I wanted instruments toplay. Until 1985 I still consideredmyself primarily a recorder player, butI had caught the flute bug and therecorders were being played less andless. It was about that time that I real-ized I was a collector (with 15 antiqueinstruments and a desire for more) aswell as a player.

KS: Any interesting stories about theacquisition process?RW: First I should confess that I havenever found a rare, valuable instrumentin a flea market. My flutes come fromdealers in antique instruments, or fromsellers referred to me by friends andprofessional contacts; occasionally by

KATHERINE SAENGER: How you bal-ance your “double life”?RICK WILSON: A professor at Caltechcan have a very flexible schedule, somostly there is no problem...though attimes I become so engrossed in onelife or the other that it becomes easy toneglect everything else. By the way, Iam a much better mathematician than Iam a musician.

KS: Do your department colleaguesknow about the flute side of your life?RW: Most of my colleagues are aware,but only some of the students. I usedto play on the Talent Show evening at“Freshman Camp” (our three-day fresh-man orientation session)—though per-haps my presence was moreappreciated than my performance,since it was so hard to get any of thefaculty at camp to participate! Andonce I did a Sunday afternoon concertat Caltech, part of three-concert serieswith a group called Con Gioia, whichin this instance consisted of a fortepi-ano, a glass harmonica, and a glassflute (made by C. Laurent in Paris,1834, and played by me).

KS: Tell me about your beginnings as aflute player. Did you start off with ametal flute in elementary school? RW: I played an old, smelly school clar-inet in junior high school band (thoughI never learned to practice seriously),and quit so I could take other coursesin high school. Any interest in music laydormant until my brother-in-law RobertBlock, a musician/musicologist, sent mea recorder when I was 27. It was theright time; something clicked. I had few

Rick Wilson playing a baroque flute made by Folkers andPowell after Jacob Denner (c. 1720).

May 2007 — 7

trades with, or purchases from, othercollectors; and finally by auctions,including eBay. I did once buy 20flutes at one time, part of a collectionthat was being dispersed.

I also acquired ten flutes thoughmarriage. I played many duets with agood friend and fine flutist, Fred Kasper,who had some wonderful historicalflutes, primarily modern replicas by RodCameron and Folkers & Powell. Myrelationship with his wife Kathy, a poetand artist, changed soon after his tragicdeath from cancer, and we have beenmarried more than five years now.

Perhaps the most interesting storyconcerns the time I returned from twoweeks in China in 1996, without anyInternet access during that period. Atthe time I still did not have a homecomputer but would use the computerin my office, two blocks away, almostevery evening. After a nap and someunpacking, I dragged my jet-lagged selfover to my office and, after taking careof some email, casually logged ontoeBay to look at the antique flute offer-ings. There WAS one very interestingitem: a 19th century simple systemflute with a long foot joint down to A,14 scallop-shell keys, and engraved sil-ver rings. The bidding was up to $1800and the end of the auction was inTWO MINUTES. The description saidthere was a maker’s name stamped onthe flute but that it was illegible. How-ever, I instantly recognized the instru-ment as matching a flute made circa1825 by Stephan Koch of Viennashown in Philip Young’s book TheLook of Music. I decided to bid, man-aged to click just 15 seconds before thedeadline, and won at $1825. It is nowone of my favorite flutes, and, in viewof its date and location of manufacture,the perfect instrument for the SchubertVariations [composed in 1824].

KS: Do you have any advice for would-be collectors?RW: Once when I was giving a lecturedemonstration, a young flutist in theaudience asked how one could get acollection like mine, and I said some-thing like “Start 25 years ago.” That’s anot insignificant point about collecting,unless one can afford to buy an exist-ing collection on the rare occasionswhen one might be available.

KS: Do you own and/or play any “mod-ern” metal flutes?RW: I have only two metal Boehmflutes, a silver A. G. Badger (NY,c.1880) and a plated Bonneville (Paris,c.1912). These are important for mycollection. Though my primary interestslie elsewhere, I must, of course, repre-sent and understand the various typesof Boehm instruments, if I am to speakabout the history of flutes. I play them,though I don’t sightread well, as mypractice time goes elsewhere. I dohave seven more Boehm flutes, butthey are wooden instruments from the19th century: two cylindrical German-style flutes with open G# keys, and fiveconical ring-keyed flutes including aGodfroy and a Louis Lot.

By the way, Badger is a VERYimportant 19th century American makerof Boehm flutes. He would be wellknown and admired today if only hisflutes were at or near modern pitch sothat they could be useful to modernplayers. But they are very high. Mine isat A5455 or somewhat higher. I lovethe Badger; it has a wonderful soundand I often wish I could find otherplayers of flutes at that pitch to playwith. But speaking of “modern,” youmay be surprised to know that I have ametal Murray system flute, by Arm-strong, 1972. That’s the latest instru-ment in my collection, which exceptfor modern copies, does not otherwisecontain flutes made after 1930. Ihaven’t played the Murray much, butfind it fascinating.

KS: So the “standard” modern flutesdon’t really interest you?RW: I have a great deal of respect forthe modern flute. I find it quite flexibleand I enjoy contemporary music thatincludes extended techniques on these (Continued on page 8)

instruments. Even though I prefer toplay other systems, I greatly admireBoehm: he was the only one who hadthe courage to completely throw outthe old system and the engineeringgenius to start over with a new, logicalsystem and build a practical and ele-gant instrument with it.

I once said to my friend Jan Boland,a performer on both modern and earlyflutes, that I was thinking about spend-ing more time on the Boehm flute. Iwanted to play the Poulenc sonata. Iwas surprised at her reaction, whichwas (I paraphrase) “NO, don’t do it!You are NEEDED for the old flutes.Plenty of people play the modernflute.” Hah, hah. I know I could playPoulenc if I wanted to, but she had avery good point. I have an appreciationof and some affinity for the old simplesystem flutes and am fortunate to havesome good instruments; I have a duty(and desire) to let them be heard.

Someone has to do it. The baroqueflute is now represented by many fineplayers. Renaissance flutes are heardtoo rarely. But even more rarely heard,for instance, are early romantic periodViennese flutes (with nine to fourteenkeys) playing flute music from1820–1850.

KS: How do you keep in shape on theflute?RW: I try to practice daily on four orfive flutes, though sometimes a day ortwo goes by when I don’t play at all. Iam proud of my flexibility. I am ableto switch from one flute to others withdifferent embouchures, bores, and fin-gering systems without intermediatewarming up. Not perfectly, but prettywell.

Details of keywork for the left thumb and right-hand finger on the Stephan Koch (Vienna, 1825) flute Rick Wilson pur-chased on eBay after his 1996 China trip.

8 — NYFC Newsletter

I like to make an analogy betweendifferent flute systems and different lan-guages. Once a language is learnedwell, there is little confusion, in thesense that a bilingual speaker of bothFrench and English will be able toswitch from, say, French to Englishwithout accidentally using Frenchwords in their English. Also, once oneknows 10 European languages, it iseasier to learn an 11th. Same for finger-ing systems.

And a slight digression: I thinklearning a different system flute is use-ful for all flutists. Just as it is said thatstudying a foreign language can helpone understand one’s own languagebetter, so can studying, say, baroqueflute, help you understand the Boehmflute. An instrument suggests interpreta-tions, some of which can then beapplied to performances on otherinstruments.

The flutes I use change with time.For weeks or months I will include acertain flute in my playing, but then I’llput it on a shelf and take another onedown for a period. (I admit that some-times I drag out a dozen flutes to trycertain things.)

KS: Any special preparations forconcerts?RW: For a week or two before a con-cert or recital, it is essential to practicepieces on (and only on) the flute onwhich they will be played.

KS: Do you get much chance to playwith others for fun?RW: Oh yes. My friend Harry Bower inSan Francisco is a serious player of ren-aissance flutes, one-key flutes, ANDboth early and late 19th century multi-keyed simple system flutes. We gettogether for week-long visits at leasttwice a year and run through many

duets on various keyed flutes. Weinvite local players of renaissance andbaroque flutes for jam sessions. I doplay with other instrumentalists, earlyor modern, when I get the chance andmy instruments fit in. I find that early19th century flutes can work really wellwith sensitive guitar players. I also playhouse concerts (for fun) with friends.

KS: What led you to set up your website?RW: I wanted to showcase and catalogmy collection, while sharing things Ihad learned about and from the flutes.Few flutists today realize how manyflute types existed and how greatlynational styles differed before 1900.Also, I have a lot of hands-on experi-ence (and opinions) that I wanted toshare. And I was not happy with theway old flutes are too often spoken of:“They don’t get no respect.” One canread in modern books and articles thatthe simple system flute “clearly couldnot fulfill the requirements of the 19thcentury” and that it has a tone that is“inferior” or “deficient in quality.” It isof course possible to criticize earlyflutes for various reasons (e.g., they arenot always easy to play), but this gen-eral condemnation (especially of tone)is just modern prejudice and I wantedto present the other side.

KS: How long has the website been inexistence?RW: Since 2003.

KS: Did you do it on your own?RW: Yes. After getting a domain nameand a web host, I learned HTML from abook. The format of my site is reallyvery simple.

KS: Do you get many visitors?RW: More than 5,000 different peoplevisited in January, some several timesand most viewing a number of pages.The pages other than the home pagethat were visited most included the

pages on renaissance flutes (503 hits),baroque flutes (454), 19th centuryBoehm flutes (245), classical flutes (235),etc. The combined pages on 19th cen-tury simple system flutes received 588viewings. Fingering charts were popular.I am proud of my comprehensive fin-gering chart for simple system flutes,and it was viewed 355 times that month.

KS: Do your visitors ever send you anyinteresting email?RW: Yes, definitely. For example, aSpanish collector recently told me thatthe official flute at the Madrid Conser-vatory until 1888 was the 12-key Tulou“flûte perfectionée.” Some visitors writeto ask for information about an “oldflute” a grandparent left to them. I tryto help when it is a 19th century flute,but often it is just a student modelBoehm flute from the 1950s. Those arenot old flutes for me. I know littleabout 20th century Boehm flutes, andnothing about their value or what theserial numbers mean.

KS: Do people ever want to see your col-lection in person?RW: I’ve had some important flute peo-ple stop by to look or try, but onlyonce or twice a year. I can’t imaginerefusing a potential visitor unless I wasbusy at the time. I often bring outflutes to show non-flutist friends andguests at home, when the subjectcomes up. Anyone can appreciate themas works of art and engineering.

KS: Is your collecting guided by anyparticular interests or objectives?RW: The huge variety of historicalflutes fascinates me. Especially withregard to 19th century instruments, myobjective is to acquire professional ornear-professional quality instrumentsrepresenting major trends, periods, andlocations in Europe and America. As arule, I am not interested in, for exam-ple, mid-19th century one- or four-keyflutes, as only amateurs and studentswould have used them then. And as arule, I am not interested in one-of-a-kind curiosities.

I cannot find or afford many original18th century (or earlier!) flutes, so Ihave many modern replicas of suchinstruments. In addition to mainstreamtypes, I do seek out less common buthistorically important models, such as

Wilson (cont’d from page 7)

The left-hand section of an “Equisonant” Flute by J. Clinton, London, c.1858. (R. S. Rockstro condemned the ClintonEquisonant flute. But RW says, “It is a very fine design, with a good sound, similar to that of a conical Boehm flute. Seehttp://www.oldflutes.com/articles/equis.htm.”)

May 2007 — 9

copies of a C-foot Denner flute (c.1720),a two-key Quantz flute (c.1740), and amulti-keyed Tromlitz flute (c.1790).

I love to play a piece of music on aflute from the same period and loca-tion when/where the music was com-posed. This is why I need so manyflutes. I wish that all flutists and listen-ers could enjoy this kind of experience.

KS: I guess that’s one reason you are sohappy to do lecture/demonstrations . . .Can you give us an example of a sam-ple program?RW: I usually play 10 to 12 flutes, start-ing with the renaissance and proceed-ing chronologically. I show slides ofperiod costumes and closeups of partsof the instruments. I like to demon-strate the meantone intonation of therenaissance flute and the lively trills onthe baroque flute. When I get to the19th century, I might play an extractillustrating “notes sensible” fromTulou’s Méthode on a five-key flutestamped “Tulou,” an excerpt illustrating“glides and vibrations” from Nichol-son’s Preceptive Lessons on a flutestamped “Nicholson’s Improved,” andexamples showing the differencebetween “Klopfen” and “Bebung” fromFürstenau’s Die Kunst des Flötenspielson a flute by W. Liebel of Dresden,Fürstenau’s favorite maker.

KS: You mentioned that you try toavoid the term “eight-key flute” as ageneric for the common pre-Boehmmulti-keyed flute.RW: I usually say “simple system flute,”and I like to put “pre-Boehm” inquotes because the system was in usewell into the 20th century. English lan-

guage sources use “eight-key flute”because that type was so standard inEngland (and the US); but as a mathe-matician, I’d feel stupid using “eight-key flute” to describe French fluteswith five keys or German flutes withnine or eleven keys.

KS: How do you balance historicalintegrity and playability when your oldflutes need restoration/repair?RW: Good question. Playability is veryimportant to me. There is much to belearned from playing and hearing theseinstruments. (This distinguishes my col-lection from many others, especiallythose in museums. Museums have adifferent mission, and I completelyunderstand this.)

Historical integrity is essential and isthe key to playability, because whenthese flutes were new, they were emi-nently playable. I want to get the flutesback to that condition (few flutes areplayable when I get them; they needparts, crack repair, and more). But Idon’t think that only historical methodsof repair are to be used. For me, superglue, power tools, and modern padsare fine. But I do want to match metalsand woods as well as possible.

There are craftsmen/artisans whorespect and understand the instrumentsand their makers. Rod Cameron, a his-torical flute maker who has done won-derful work for me, tells me that heoften imagines himself as the embodi-ment of the original maker, continuingthe same work and striving for thesame goals. I think others who havehelped me, my friends Michael Hubbert(a genius at working with any material)and Joe Moir (who knows every system

of wind and brass instrument evermade), share this attitude as well.

I would never change a workingpart if it seems to be near-original. Iwould never modify an originalembouchure, never shorten a flute orenlarge the tone holes in an attempt tochange the pitch, never change thebore of an instrument if it is in nearoriginal condition. I can’t learn how aflute might have sounded and beenplayed if changes like this are made.But, for example, many wooden flutesfrom early in the 19th century have hadtheir embouchures crudely enlargedlater in that century, to accommodatehigher pitches; in such cases I do nothesitate to have the embouchurebushed and recut. (I understand whatresults is only an approximation of anoriginal instrument.) If I have new partsmade, I save the old broken parts withthe flute. I will leave some blemishes,modifications, and old working repairsintact, as they are part of the history ofthe instrument

Here is an interesting point. I havecleaned and repadded, or more exten-sively restored, some instruments onlyto find that they did not play well forme. That is, they were out of tune ordid not produce a good sound. Ratherthan attempt retuning or getting rid ofthe instruments, I put them on a shelf.Many times I will take them down fiveor ten years later to find that they nowplay well, or at least have good quali-ties. What has happened is not that theflute changed, but that I, in the interim,have learned how to play historicalflutes better. What seemed difficult, Ican now manage, and some of theseinstruments become favorites. Thankgoodness that I did not irresponsiblytry to modify these instruments to bet-ter fit me, when it was I that did notunderstand the instrument. As a collec-tor, I have the luxury of being able tohave the instrument wait until I catchup to it.

KS: Thank you so much! I look forwardto many more visits to your website. q

rKatherine Saenger is the editor of theNew York Flute Club Newsletter and ascientist at the IBM T.J. Watson ResearchCenter in Yorktown Heights, NY.

Details of articulated keys on a flute by Benedikt Pentenrieder (Munich, c. 1845).