regina, saskatoon may 19, 1976 volume 56 regina berger v56.pdf · noel starblanket 6053 joe glenn...

MACKENZIE VALLEY PIPELINE INQUIRY

IN THE MATTER OF THE APPLICATIONS BY EACH OF

(a) CANADIAN ARCTIC GAS PIPELINE LIMITED FOR ARIGHT-OF-WAY THAT MIGHT BE GRANTED ACROSS

CROWN LANDS WITHIN THE YUKON TERRITORY ANDTHE NORTHWEST TERRITORIES, and

(b) FOOTHILLS PIPE LINES LTD. FOR A RIGHT-OF-WAYTHAT MIGHT BE GRANTED ACROSS CROWN LANDS

WITHIN THE NORTHWEST TERRITORIESFOR THE PURPOSE OF A PROPOSED MACKENZIE VALLEY PIPELINE

and

IN THE MATTER OF THE SOCIAL, ENVIRONMENTALAND ECONOMIC IMPACT REGIONALLY OF THE CONSTRUCTION,OPERATION AND SUBSEQUENT ABANDONMENT OF THE ABOVE

PROPOSED PIPELINE

(Before the Honourable Mr. Justice Berger, Commissioner)

Regina, SaskatoonMay 19, 1976

PROCEEDINGS AT COMMUNITY HEARING

Volume 56

The 2003 electronic version prepared from the original transcripts byAllwest Reporting Ltd.

Vancouver, B.C. V6B 3A7 CanadaPh: 604-683-4774 Fax: 604-683-9378

www.allwestbc.com

APPEARANCES

Mr. Ian G. Scott, Q.C.Mr. Ian Waddell, andMr. Ian Roland for Mackenzie Valley

Pipeline Inquiry

Mr. Pierre Genest, Q.C. andMr. Darryl Carter, for Canadian Arctic

Gas Pipeline Lim-ited;

Mr. Alan Hollingworth andMr. John W. Lutes for Foothills Pipe-

lines Ltd.;

Mr. Russell Anthony andpro. Alastair Lucas for Canadian Arctic

Resources Committee

Mr. Glen Bell, for Northwest Territo-ries

Indian Brotherhood, andMetis Association of theNorthwest Territories.

INDEX PageWITNESSES:Lloyd ROBERTSON, Charles BRECKEN 6029Monica SCHUBERT 6033Peter BLACK 6037Dwight LOGAN, Bill HARDING, Tom BURNS 6047R.H. ALLAN 6050Noel STARBLANKET 6053Joe GLENN John PILLING 6056Pat GALLAGHER 6067Peter PREBBLE 6378Colin STEWARTE.A. MAGINNES 6092George H. GREEN 6097Frank TOMPKINS 6100Colin ALEXANDER 6106Miss Susan DUSEL Miss Laura HERPERGERMiss Elizabeth SCHNURR 6117Joe ROBERTS 6123G.F. LEDINGHAM 6136

EXHIBITS:C-382 Submission of Saskatchewan Association of

Human Rights - Robertson & Brecken 6033

C-383 Submission of Monica Schubert 6036

C-384 Submission of Dept. of Mineral Resources,Government of Saskatchewan - P. Black 6046

C-385 Submission of Regina Committee for WorldDevelopment - Logan, Harding, Burns 6050

C-386 6 Submission of Regina Chamber of Commerce- R.H. Allan 6053

C-387 Submission of Federation of SaskatchewanIndians - N. Starblanket 6056

C-388 Submission of Catholic Archdiocese of Regina- Pilling & Gunn 6067

C-389 Submission of Saskatoon Presbytery of theUnited Church of Canada 6067

C-390 Submission of Saskatchewan Federation ofLabor - P. Gallagher 6074

C-391 Submission of Group of Concerned Citizens inSaskatoon - C. Stewart 6091

C-392 Submission by A. Taylor 6091

C-393 Submission of Mrs. M. Shiell 6100

C-394 Submission of People of Sandy Bay.Sask.- F. Tompkins 6104

C-395 Submission by R. White 6106

C-396 Submission of Miller Comprehensive HighSchool - Miss S. Dusel 6123

C-397 Newspaper Article "Leader Post" May 10/76 6140

C-398 Submission by G.F. Ledingham 6140

C-399 Submission by Saskatchewan Waffle Movement- J. Roberts 6135

C-400 Brief of Regha Committee for WorldDevelopment 6143

C-40l Submission by T.M. Beveridge 6143

C-402 Submission by T.E. Keyes 6143

C-403 Submission by Mrs. J. Klein 6143

Regina, SaskatchewanMay 19, 1976

(PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT)THE COMMISSIONER: Ladies and

gentlemen, I'll call our hearing to order this evening.The Mackenzie Valley Pipeline Inquiry is holding hearingsin the main centers of southern Canada to consider theviews of people like yourselves who have advised theInquiry that you want to make representations about thisquestion of fundamental national policy.

I say that it is a questionof fundamental national policy because we in Canadastand now at our last frontier and we have someimportant decisions to make, decisions for which all ofus will H share a measure of responsibility.

As I think you know, twopipeline companies, Arctic Gas and Foothills PipeLines, are competing for the right to build a gaspipeline to bring natural gas from the Arctic Ocean tosouthern Canada and the United States. The Governmentof Canada has established this Inquiry to see what thesocial, economic and environmental consequences will heto northern Canada if the pipeline goes ahead and torecommend what terms and conditions should be imposedif the pipeline is built.

So, we are conducting anInquiry about a proposal to build a pipeline along theacute of Canada's mightiest river, a pipeline costlierthan any in history, a pipeline to he built across ournorthern Territories, a land where four races of

Allwest Reporting Ltd.Burnaby, B.C. 6020

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people, white, Indian, Metis and Inuit live, whereseven different languages are spoken, the firstpipeline in the world to be buried in the permafrost.

Now, the pipeline project i1not consist simply of a right-of-way. It will takethree years to build, It will entail hundreds o miles;of access roads over the snow and ice. It will meanthat 6,000 workers will be needed to build the pipelineand 1,200 more to build the gas plants in the MackenzieDelta. It will require 30 million cubic yards ofgravel and necessitate the establishment of 98 gravelmining operations. It will mean pipe, barges, wharves,trucks, machinery, aircraft, airstrips. In addition,it will mean enhanced oil and gas explorationdevelopment in the Mackenzie Valley, the MackenzieDelta and the Beaufort Sea.

Now, the Government of Canadahas made it plain that the gas pipeline is not to heconsidered in isolation. In the Expanded GuidelinesFor Northern Pipelines tabled in the House of Commons,they have laid it down that we are to proceed on theassumption that if a gas pipeline is built, an oilpipeline will follow, so we must consider the impact ofan energy corridor that will bring gas and oil from theArctic to the mid-continent.

Now, it isn't going to be forthis Inquiry to decide whether a pipeline should bebuilt and an energy corridor established. That is amatter for the Government of Canada as it must be, forthose elected to govern our country to determine, and


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they will determine that question when they have myreport and the report of the National Energy Board andthese are, as I say, questions of national policy to hedetermined by those elected to govern.

My task and the task of thisInquiry is to make sure that we understand theconsequences of what we are doing to enable thegovernment of Canada to make an informed judgment.This Inquiry began its hearings on March 3rd, 1975 inYellowknife. That is about 15 months ago. Since then,we have held many months of formal hearings listeningto the evidence of engineers, scientists, biologists,anthropologists, economists, listening to the peoplewho have made it the work of their lifetime to studythe north and northern conditions.

The environment of the Arctichas been called fragile. That may or may not be true.Arctic species certainly are tough. They have to he tosurvive, but at certain times of the year, especiallywhen they are having their young, they are vulnerable.If you build a pipeline from Alaska along the Arcticcoast of the Yukon, you will be opening up a wildernesswhere the porcupine caribou herd calves on the coastalplain and in the foothills every summer. This is oneof the last great herds of caribou in North America.

Then it is proposed that thepipeline from Alaska should cross the mouth of theMackenzie Delta where the white whales of the BeaufortSea have their young each summer. Millions of birdscome to the Mackenzie Delta and the coast of the


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Beaufort Sea each summer from all over tie hemisphereto breed and to store up energy or for the long journeysouth in the fall.

Can we build the north underconditions that will ensure the survival of thesespecies? These are some of the questions that theInquiry is wrestling with. But it is the people of thenorth that have the most at stake here because theywill have to live with whatever decisions are made.That is why this Inquiry has had hearings in 28 citiesand towns, villages, settlements and outposts in theCanadian north to enable the peoples of the north totell me, to tell the government and to tell all of aswhat their life and their own experience have taughtthem about the north and the likely impact of apipeline and energy corridor.

The Inquiry has been fromSachs Harbor to Fort Smith, from Old Crow to FortFranklin and has heard from 700 witnesses in English,French, Loucheux, Slavey, Dogrib, Chipewvan and Eskimo.

Our task, the task of Inquiryis to establish constructive approaches for northerndevelopment. If we are to do that, we have anobligation to canvass all of the questions before us.Some of these questions are: Should native land claimsbe settled before the pipeline is built? If thepipeline is built and the native people want toparticipate in its construction, how can we ensure thatthey are given an opportunity to work on the pipeline?Can they skills on the pipeline that will be of some


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use to themselves and to the north after the pipelineis built?

Can we provide a sound basisfor northern business to obtain contracts andsubcontracts on the pipeline? What about the unions?We are told they have an awesome measure of control overpipeline construction in Alaska. Should they have thesame measure of control over pipeline construction inthe Mackenzie Valley? What about the local taxpayer inYellowknife and Inuvik?

If you have a pipeline boom,you will have to expand your schools, your hospitals,your police force, your local services. What measuresought to be taken to enable the municipalities andother institutions of local government to cope withthe impact?

This Inquiry has been goingon, as I say now, since March 3rd, 1975. At ourhearings, the two pipeline companies, Arctic Gas andFoothills Pipe Lines have both been represented on acontinuous basis. The native organizationsrepresenting the native peoples of the north have beenrepresented on a continuous basis at the Inquiry. TheCanadian Arctic Resources Committee which heads acoalition of environmental groups has been representedat the Inquiry when the Inquiry has been dealing withenvironmental issues.

The Northwest TerritoriesAssociation of Municipalities is represented at theInquiry during the phase that we will he returning to,


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when we go back to Yellowknife on June 14th which dealswith the impact on northern towns and northernsettlements. The Northwest Territories Chamber ofCommerce will he represented at the Inquiry when we dealwith the question of the impact on northern businessThese organizations have been provided with funds on theInquiry's recommendation to enable them to participatein the hearings of the Inquiry, the formal hearings inYellowknife, along with the pipeline companies and theoil and gas industry.

We are here now to spend amonth in the major centers of southern Canada toconsider what the people who live here have to sayabout the proposed pipeline and energy corridor, andabout the future of the Canadian north. We Canadiansthink of ourselves as a northern people so the futureof the north is a matter of concern to all of us. Infact, it. is our own appetite for oil and gas andour own patterns of energy consumption that havegiven rise to proposals to bring oil and gas from theArctic. It may well he that what happens in thenorth and to northern peoples will tell us somethingabout what kind of a country Canada is and what kindof a people we are. So that is why we are here tolisten to you.

I think I should tell youthat we have some visitors from the Canadian north withus today. The CBC established a broadcasting unit thattravels with the Inquiry wherever it goes andbroadcasts on the CBC's northern service in the


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Northwest Territories and the Yukon each evening for anhour whenever the Inquiry is holding hearings. Thebroadcasts go out to northern peoples over the radioeach evening in English and the native languages andthose broadcasters are accompanying the Inquiry on itstour of southern cities and are broadcasting eachevening from southern Canada to northern Canada,reporting what is being said here at these hearings inthe main centers in the provinces.

Those broadcasters are WhitFraser who broadcasts in English, Jim Sittichinli whobroadcasts in Loucheux, Louis Blondin who broadcasts inSlavey, Joe Toby who broadcasts in Dogrib andChipewyan, and Abe Okpik who broadcasts in Inuktitut.

So, I'll ask Mr. Goudge ofCommission Counsel to outline our procedure for theevening.

MR. GOUDGE: Yes sir. Ishould begin by saying that these procedures have beenagreed to by all the full-time participants who areappearing before you in Yellowknife and they'reobviously designed to facilitate a full and fairparticipation by everyone who wishes to say somethingtonight.

The Inquiry advertised in allthe major papers of southern Canada asking for writtenbriefs to be forwarded to the office the Inquiry has inOttawa by May the 1st. That was in order to permit usto plan the use of our time in southern Canada mostexpeditiously and those who replied from Regina have


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been scheduled by Mr. Waddell to speak tonight. Anyothers who did not submit written briefs but who dowish to say something would be advised I think to seeMr. Waddell and he'll do his best to fit them into theschedule here.

The procedures that wepropose to use tonight are very simple. First, therewill no cross-examination of those who appear at thesehearings tonight in Regina. Secondly, the full-timeparticipants who have been appearing before theinquiry' will be able to make a brief response at theend o this evening's procedures to what has been saidtonight. to you. Thirdly, we will ask that allwitnesses take the oath or affirm . That is theprocedure we have used in the north and that isindicative I think of the importance the Inquiry placeson what is to he said tonight.

Those are the procedures sirwe'd propose to use this evening and I think Mr.Waddell has the schedule.

MR. WADDELL: I might say Mr.Commissioner before I call the first brief that we'lltry and make some further room at the hack of the hallfor those who are standing, so just bear with us.

I would call then Mr.Commissioner, as the first brief the SaskatchewanAssociation Human Rights. I believe the brief will bepresented by Mr. Lloyd Robertson and he will have withhim Bill Harding and Tom Burns, Mr. Robertson?

LLOYD ROBERTSON, sworn:


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CHARLES BRECKEN, sworn:WITNESS ROBERTSON: I have

with me a five page brief from the SaskatchewanAssociation on Human Rights and I do not --

THE COMMISSIONER: Perhapsyou'd introduce yourself and your colleague again. Ithink I missed that.

A All right. My name isLloyd Robertson. I'm with the Saskatchewan Associationon Human Rights and with me is Charles Brecken of theRegina Association on Human Rights.

THE COMMISSIONER: Fine.A As I was saying, I do

not propose to read this brief to you, although I'llleave it with your secretary. I'd like to thank youfor the opportunity of allowing us this opportunity topresent our views to you.

Our brief is more a letter ofsupport to what we view the position of the Dene peopleto be than a brief outlining our own particularinterests. We view the Dene position as being, putsimply, that no pipeline or other industrial developmentshould take place until the land claims, the native landclaims in the Northwest Territories are settled.

We have some sympathy for theposition of the Association of Metis and Non-StatusIndians of Saskatchewan who have been distributing aleaflet outside. The leaflet states in part that theyare not submitting a brief to the Berger Inquiry because:

"We do not believe that the Inquiry has been


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formed to provide justice for native land claims".This, I am sure is not

intended as any kind of slur upon your characterJustice Berger, for the representatives of the Dene andInuit people that I have certainly talked with and theMetis society have talked with hold you in greatesteem. It is however a reflection of our opinion ofthe Federal Government.

If I may draw an analogy, Iam part owner of a house and I cannot see thegovernment holding an Inquiry as to whether or not theyshould expropriate my house and if they did intend toexpropriate my house, I cannot see them holding aninquiry as to whether or not I should receivecompensation or whether, they should expropriate thehouse, do whatever they have planned for that propertyand maybe in some years time, talk about compensation.

It is further the position ofmy Association that the history of Canada is not anhonorable one, particularly in its dealings with nativepeople. Canada began as a colony, a colony based insouthern Ontario and southern Quebec and to a largeextent, Confederation was an attempt by this colony toexpand to what was then. known as the Northwest toexploit that land for their own economic reasons. In asense then, the colonists who came out here were partof a colony of a colony and the native people who were,by various means, pushed aside, were not even that. Infact, it could be argued they were not even slavesbecause you have to provide work and you have to


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provide sustenance for slaves.We feel that this proposed

development at this time, ignoring native land claims,furthers this unfortunate, this dishonorable history ofCanada in its relationship towards its native people Wefeel that the inspiration for this pipeline policy is aresult of short-term greed, that the gas and oil thatis present up there is not a renewable resource andfurther that, it will be there if left for many yearshence, for future generations, if need be.

We feel that it's importantfor Canada now to begin learning the principles ofgreater energy conservation and that this is anopportunity now to delay this further development,learn more about conservation of this valuableresource, while at the same time making an equitableand fair settlement with native peoples in the north.

That, Mr. Justice Berger.is a summary of our brief, I

believe Mr. Brecken has a few words for you as well.WITNESS BRECKEN: Judge

Berger, Commission members, native people, ladies andgentlemen.! The Regina Human Rights Association isplease to take the opportunity to put in a plea thatthe human rights of the native people living in theMackenzie Valley be respected in regards to governmentdecisions as t whether or not to build a as pipelineand corridor up through the Mackenzie Valley.

We believe that the landclaim must be settled before any construction begins.


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We further believe that when and if construction doesgo ahead, native people should he in full control ofall decision making as to the time, the place, who theconstructors should be an how it should be constructed.

Thank you.THE COMMISSIONER: Well thank

you, Mr. Robertson. Thank you, Mr. Brecken.(SUBMISSION OF THE SASKATCHEWAN ASSOCIATION OF HUMANRIGHTS MARKED AS EXHIBIT C-382)

(WITNESSES ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Mr.

Commissioner, for our next brief I m going to drop downour list little bit and call Ms. Monica Schubert who isfrom OXFAM. Ms. Schubert has been ill tonight and soI'd like to call her now.

MS. MONICA SCHUBERT affirm;THE COMMISSIONER: Go ahead

whenever you're ready.THE WITNESS: Yes. Right.

European whites, Mr. Berger and that means most of uswhite Canadians sitting here in this room with you,have traditionally found only one way of resolvingtheir problems. They export them.

In the 17th century,religious troubles erupted in Britain. The dissentersleft for North America. They established freedom toworship indeed as they intended, but at the expense ofthe native inhabitants, pushing them further andfurther west as they expanded their own communities.


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In the 18th and 19th centuries, Europe experiencedeconomic and industrial problems, Those hardest hitmoved on. The Third World, Asia, Africa, LatinAmerica, even Australia and Canada to some extent wereravaged, exploited, all but laid waste so that thewhite manes greed could be satiated.

Now, in the second half ofthe twentieth century, we find ourselves faced with anenergy crisis and we react in the same way as before.Like the cuckoo who uses other birds' nests as adepository for its eggs, we turn to the NorthwestTerritories, not that we have much choice. There isn'tmuch land left for us to exploit.

It is my contention that wemust stop acting like the cuckoo and must look for oursolutions closer to home. In this case, we must findsources of energy somewhere within our own borders. Wemust leave the Northwest Territories for the nativeDene and Inuit people to administer and develop as theysee fit. For us, the solutions will have to come fromwithin.

Perhaps we should stopfloodlighting our gigantic buildings off the dock whenno one is working there. Perhaps we should stop buyingbigger and stronger cars and more of them. Perhaps theinternal combustion engines should be superseded by aform of transport which uses cheaper forms of fuel andless of it. Perhaps we should take the advice of theBritish Energy Council, and shower with a friend.

Our much wanted technical


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expertise and creativity could surely help us indeveloping new strategies to deal with the energycrisis without depriving the Dene and the Inuit peopleof the land they have traditionally used to earn theirliving.

Chief Justice Morris ruled in1973 that the Dene people had established a sufficientinterest in the 400,000 square miles covered byTreaties 8 and 11 to justify filing a caveat. For therest of the territory through which the MackenziePipeline is scheduled to pass, the native inhabitantshave never relinquished their claim at all. If this isso, then there can surely be no question of layinganything at all, even if such a move is argued to bevaluable. Once title to the Northwest Territories hasbeen established, it will be for the holders of thetitle to consider whether or not the socialenvironmental and economic changes brought about by thelaying of the pipeline would indeed be beneficial.

The Government, Mr. Berger,is inclined to look upon the indigenous native peopleof our country as being less mature in some way thanresponsible citizens with substantial bank balances. Iam concerned to see that even if the Dene people havecomputerized statistical analysis of at this time, theyas immemorial inhabitants of the northlands may beacknowledge to be more sophisticated than we in thesouth in their basic knowledge and understanding ofwhat's, after all, their own environment.


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I do not exclude thepossibility of consultation with government aboutdevelopment in the north but the final responsibilitymust surely lie with them. But, because I am a realist,and because T am very much afraid that the pipeline willhe built anyway, since in our materialistic and numeratesociety, the rights of 20,000 Dene people are by no meanscommensurate with the wishes for a better life of 20million southern Canadians. I wish to make the followingsuggestions to you.

In the event of the pipelinebeing built, it's cost should by no means run along thefertile -- or reasonably fertile Mackenzie Valley, thatpart of the Northwest Territories most suited to humanhabitation. Rather, it should run east of Great SlaveLake and south through Saskatchewan, so that a minimumof ecological damage may be done.

In addition, it seems to meonly fair that the companies involved should pay aroyalty to the Dene people through whose land thepipeline would run. Such a royalty would not of courseprejudice title to the land at all, in much the sameway as an author being paid royalties for a hook doesnot lose his copyright privileges. This money mightthen be used for development of the north as it seemsfitting to the Indian people, who will inevitably reapwhatever harvest the planting of such a pipeline wouldproduce.

Thank you.(SUBMISSION OF MONICA SCHUBERT MARKED AS EXHIBIT


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C-383)(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Mr.

Commissioner I'm going to call as the next brief, PeterBlack who is with the Energy Secretariat, Department ofMineral Resources in the Government of Saskatchewan.Mr. Black will be presenting the brief for thatDepartment.

PETER BLACK sworn;THE WITNESS: Thank you. Mr.

Justice Berger, the Saskatchewan Government greatlyappreciates the fact that the Mackenzie Valley PipelineInquiry is holding hearings across southern Canada.Additional media coverage of such hearings should makesouthern Canadians more aware of and concerned aboutthe massive resource development contemplated for ourcountry's northland.

The southern hearings willprovide greater access for interested Canadians tooutline their views to the Inquiry. Moreover, suchhearings indicate that the Inquiry is interested tolearn the views of southern Canadians about developmentproposals whose impact per person nevertheless will befar greater north of the sixtieth parallel than southof that line.

The Saskatchewan. Governmenthas relatively limited involvement in northern affairsper se, that is the affairs of the persons who residenorth of 60. Consequently, we hesitate to offersuggestion as to what might be an appropriate manner


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for future development in the northern half of Canada.The fact remains however that it is southern Canadianand in some respects foreign interests, that haveinstigated the proposals for massive changes in thenorth, and it is the government of all Canadians whichwill have to make decisions or these proposals.

In this context therefore,and because Saskatchewan has several concernsrespecting the proposals to construct a gas pipelinealong the Mackenzie Valley, we are submitting thisbrief to your Inquiry.

Saskatchewan's concern inrespect to the competing applications to build aMackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline have already beenoutlined to the National Energy Board. We understandand appreciate that your Inquiry is of the view thatquestions relating to gas supply, Canada's gasrequirements and the export of gas are for the NationalEnergy Board to consider. We attempt therefore infollows to comment only on those matters which we arerelevant to the potential impact of the MackenzieValley Gas Pipeline on northern Canada.

Before we outline thesepoints, you may he interested to know that in oursubmission of September 1975 to the National EnergyBoard hearings on these pipeline applications, we citedthe importance of your Inquiry as follows:

"Saskatchewan looks forward to a comprehensive-eexamination of a Mackenzie Valley Pipeline andadequate resolution of several important issues


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associated with its construction and operation.Some of these main issues include the environ-mental impact of a northern pipeline and thevery real effect which it will have upon north-ern residents. This latter aspect raises mat-ters of a profound social and ethical nature.

As an example, we cite the issues out-lined in the Labor Day message of the CanadianCatholic Conference dated September 1, '75.Saskatchewan submits that the pending report ofthe Forger Commission would appear to be highlyrelevant to the making of sound and just deci-sions on the social questions raised by the ap-plications before the National Energy Board."

One of the main issues whichwe raised in our submission to the NEB or NationalEnergy Board, is the question of the appropriate timingof pipeline development along the Mackenzie Valley,While this question obviously related to the demand forand the supply of natural gas which falls within theNational Energy Board's jurisdiction, we feel that itis also an important determinant of the northern impactof such development.

To underline this matter, wesubmit that the construction of such a pipeline in thelate 1980's for example would have a far different anpresumably less deleterious impact on the north than ifit were constructed in the late 1970's. We are nothereby suggesting a particular date of constructionwhich would be in Canada's overall interest. Rather,


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the point we wish to make is that a difference intiming of several years, particularly given the currenthigh rate of social and organization changes innorthern Canada may well result in a significantlyimproved environmental, social and economic impact on aMackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline. Such additional timecould allow for such things as:(a) Further examination of the likely impact of apipeline and the design of appropriate measure toameliorate such impact.(b) Additional research by native organizations inrespect of land claims and additional negotiationsthereon with the Federal Government, and,(c) Further preparation by individuals, organizations,local governments and the Federal Government to comewith and improve the impact of pipeline constructionand operation.

Before outlining theparticular aspects of pipeline timing whichSaskatchewan feels is relevant to your Inquiry, Ishould like to relate the project to the more generalcontext of another Canadian development. Given thatnorthern and southern Canada share a common country anda common government, it is reasonable to expect thatover time, the activities and economies of these twoparts of Canada will interact to an increasing extent.Northern Canada relies on southern Canada for certainservices and goods, and vice versa. Given therelatively fragile socio-economic and environmentalsystem in northern Canada however, Saskatchewan submits


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that southern Canada should seek to limit its demandson the north both in terms of timing and extent so asnot to overwhelm this fragile northern system.

Not only should southernCanada limit its own demands, it should limit evenmore strictly the demands of foreign countries fromnorthern Canadian services and goods. This need fordifferentiations between the nationality of thedemands for northern resources is particularlyapplicable in the case of a Mackenzie Valley GasPipeline.

If the timing of northerndevelopment is relevant to the impact which suchdevelopment would have on the north, it is alsorelevant to the above-mentioned separate rationaldemands of the natural gas of northern Canada. We donot wish to delve into the details of this situationwhich, as your Inquiry has stated, are more probablythe concern of the National Energy Board.

Suffice it to say howeverthat Canada has licensed exports of gas over manyyears into the future. The current annual volumes ofthese exports is equivalent to about 70 percent ofCanada's present annual consumption. Another way ofdescribing that is to say that Canada's production ofnatural gas is equivalent to roughly 170 percent ofour consumption of gas with 70 percent obviouslygoing to export.

Saskatchewan submits, andthe Federal Government agrees that Canadians have


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first priority to utilize all of Canada's natural gasif necessary, regardless of long-term exportlicenses. We further submit that construction andoperation of the of Mackenzie Valley Gas Pipelineprior to the date in the 1980's when Canada'sconsumption of gas Will catch up with her productionof gas will mean the Mackenzie Delta gas willessentially be produced to serve the export market inthe interim. While such gas exports, under existinglicenses represent a legitimate objective of Canada,Saskatchewan submits that the maintenance of such gasexports are clearly of secondary importance to thequestion of meeting Canada's own gas requirement tothe extent that deferring the fulfillment of our eastexport commitments for several years providesadditional time for southern and northern Canada toprepare for a Mackenzie valley Pipeline. We feelthat such a deferment should he seriously considered.

By this measure, Canada couldavoid any unnecessarily rapid development of northernCanada which would result from serving the energymarkets of foreign countries. Saskatchewan submits thatthis question of the appropriate timing of a MackenzieValley Gas Pipeline and the fact that foreign countriesin particular stand to benefit from early pipelineconstruction are relevant to the matters underconsideration by your Inquiry.

A second issue of possiblerelevance to your Inquiry is that of the ownership o aMackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline. In our submission to the


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National Energy Board, Saskatchewan recommended thatconsideration be given to public ownership of thisimportant national project. By public ownership, werefer to a corporation whose equity financing is providedby and whose shares are held by Canadian Governments.Such a corporation's Board of Directors would becomprised of people responsible to the Canadianelectorate and representatives of interest groups whoseopinions and expertise would be of assistance to thepipeline corporation in carrying out its objectives. Theobjectives of the corporation moreover , could bewhatever might be appropriately determined by Canadiangovernments as provided for in the corporation's enablinglegislation or letters patent.

We submit that the optionof public ownership of a Mackenzie Valley Pipelinerepresents a means of achieving several possiblebenefits' in terms of impact on the north.1. First, by providing for the representation ofnorthern Canadian residents on the Board ofDirectors. Public ownership could provide moredirectly for northern input into the determination ofpipeline design, construction scheduling andprocedures as well as employment and operatingpractises.2. Second, uninhibited by the absolute criterion ofprofit performance, a publicly owned pipelineorganization would be more amenable to takingmeasures which sacrifice the profit goal in order toserve the broader objective of an appropriate social


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and environmental impact on northern Canada.3. Thirdly, public ownership would more directlyensure that the relevant plans and practises of thecorporation were adequately known by the Governmentof Canada in order that changes could be made to suchplans which were deemed appropriate.4. Fourthly, public ownership would ensure thatactions taken in northern Canada were made entirelyby Canadians serving Canadian objectives.

The Saskatchewan Government'sthird general submission to the National Energy Boardwas that in the absence of public ownership of aMackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline, the project outlined byFoothills Pipe Line Limited, in other words, the MapleLeaf project, would be preferable. While the Maple Leafproject has many relative advantages over its competitorfrom Canada's point of view, we believe that it alsoprovides certain relative benefits from the point ofview of its impact on northern Canada.1. First, by virtue of its smaller diameter andshorter length it would likely result in a smallerenvironmental impact on the north,2. Second, Foothills Pipe Line has alreadydemonstrated to some extent its sensitivity tonorthern needs by virtue of its Northern TrainingProgram and its offer to provide lower cost gasservice to communities along the Mackenzie Valley.3. Third, Foothills current and projected ownershipstructure is entirely Canadian with the attendantbenefits thereof, some of which I mentioned previously.


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In this regard, Saskatchewan submits that just asnorthern development should be timed in accordance withnorthern and southern Canadian and not foreign schedulesin mind, so should the development of the north beundertaken by Canadian rather than foreign organizationswith their attendant self-interests and objectives.

In summary, Mr. JusticeBerger, Saskatchewan appreciates the opportunitywhich you have afforded us to outline some of ourviews on the proposed massive pipeline project. Wesubmit that the scheduling of the Mackenzie ValleyPipeline, if authorized, would provide additionaltime for research and preparation if it were carriedout in accordance with the timing of Canada's, andnot foreign needs, for Mackenzie Delta gas.

Saskatchewan submits thatthe option of public ownership properly designedand implemented could provide certain additionalbenefits for northern Canada. In the absence ofsuch public ownership, we commend the pipelineproposals advanced by Foothills Pipe Line Limitedas the preferable of the competing projects fromboth a southern and northern Canadian point ofview. In general, Saskatchewan submits that aMackenzie Valley Pipeline oriented to Canadianneeds and interests on a Canadian scale andschedule and under Canadian ownership would bepreferable to a pipeline whose raison d'êtrelargely lies in serving the immediate and massiveenergy requirements of foreign countries.


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Saskatchewan fully supportsthe work of your Inquiry and appreciates the open,equitable and comprehensive procedures which you haveadopted. We hope that Saskatchewan's views will beof some assistance to you in what is clearly anawesome task of extreme importance to not onlynorthern but all Canadians

Thank you.THE COMMISSIONER: Perhaps

I might make just one comment on your brief. Yousaid that Foothills Pipe Lines, the sponsors of aMaple Leaf project had already demonstrated to someextent their sensitivity to northern needs by virtueof their Northern Training Program and their offer toprovide lower cost gas service to communities alongthe Mackenzie Valley.

All of that is perfectlytrue but Arctic Gas shares equally the credit for theNorthern Training Program, along with Foothills.Both companies participated in establishing thatNorthern Training Program, and I just thought infairness I should make that clear.

Thank you anyway sir, verymuch.

A Thank you. That wasmy misunderstanding.

MR. WADDELL: Mr. Black, Iwonder if you could leave another copy of that withMiss Hutchinson, our secretary?(SUBMISSION OF THE DEPARTMENT OF MINERAL RESOURCES


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GOVERNMENT OF SASKATCHEWAN MARKED AS EXHIBIT C-384)(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL,: Mr. Commissioner

the next brief you'll hear is from Dwight Logan from theRegina Committee for World Development and I am told andI hope I have this right, that he will have with him BillHarding and Tom Burns, So, I'll call Mr. Logan.

DWIGHT LOGANBILL HARDINGTOM BURNS sworn;WITNESS HARDING: Mr.

Commissioner, welcome to Saskatchewan. My name isBill Harding. I am a director of the ReginaCommittee, and Dwight Logan and Tom Burns spend theirfull time on the activities of the organization.

The Regina Committee forWorld Development with the deepest possible humilitywould like to dedicate its brief to the memory ofNelson Small Legs. His tragic death dramatizes thedeep frustration of our native sisters and brothersand the terrible urgency of the problems beingconsidered by your Inquiry.

We, in the Regina Committeefor World Development are concerned about the peopleof the Third World, As one of the many concernedvoluntary agencies in Canada, we are working to bringabout a new international economic order, studyingnational and international affairs and trying to helpeducate the public about basic development issues.

We are becoming more aware


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each day of the ways in which policies of the wealthynations are hurting underdeveloped countries andpreventing them from improving their own situation.We know that no real development can take place whencertain principles established in the United NationsDeclaration on a New International Economic Order areflagrantly violated, especially those pertaining topeoples' control, and responsible use of resources.

Now, we have appended acopy of the Declaration on the New InternationalEconomic Order and referenced in our brief therelevant paragraphs.

It's not surprising in viewof the Canadian Government's policies towards underdeveloped countries, that Ottawa has intentions ofcooperating in the development of oil and gasreserves and laying of pipelines in the north.According to native people in the north, these'intended policies will disrupt their way of life andprevent them from improving their own situation. Asa result, these policies will create a dependentrather than a self-reliant people. If our efforts topersuade the government to change their trade and aidpolicies with the underdeveloped countries are tohave any moral forces, it goes without saying theymust also be concerned with changing the government'sintentions and actions towards the Dene and Inuit ofthe north at the same time.

We believe that fair playmust be the basis for policy in the Mackenzie Valley


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as well as in the rest of Canada and overseas. Thewriting is on the wall that people must be consideredmore important than economic development and economicgain. We stand in solidarity with the people of theworld who are uniting o fight for justice and fairplay.

We who are speaking areaware that we ourselves are living off the fat of theland at the expense of our neighbors on reserves inthe north, overseas. Our involvement in worlddevelopment makes us conscious of our position andmakes us realize the absolute necessity of rejectingmany of the luxuries that have been sold to us asneeds, such as high energy and resource consumptionin cars, large single family houses, junk foods,packaging. To put it in a nutshell, we must rejectour wasteful consumer society. We are ready toaccept this because we realize that this is the priceto pay for what we are asking and we ire asking for:1. First, any development in the Mackenzie Riverarea to he determined by northerners and not byinvestment decisions made in southern Canada or bytransnational) corporations.2. We are asking for fair play for the nativepopulations, both Dene and Inuit who form a majorityin the Northwest Territories,3, We are asking for justice and good stewardship togovern our use of resources.

Mr. Commissioner, pleaseconvey our concerns and our deep feelings on this


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matter to the people of the north, to Prime MinisterTrudeau, to the Minister of Indian Affairs andNorthern Development and to the Canadian Cabinet.

Thank you for being ourambassador and giving us a chance to express ourselveson a vital matter concerning the future of our country.(SUBMISSION OF THE REGINA COMMITTEE FOR WORLDDEVELOPMENT MARKED AS EXHIBIT C-385)


Commissioner the next brief is from the Regina Chamberof Commerce to be presented by their president, Mr.R.H. Allan. Mr. Allan?

R.H. ALLAN sworn;THE WITNESS: Mr.

Commissioner, the Regina Chamber of Commerce, founded in1886, is a voluntary business organization representingover 1,200 members in Regina. The Regina Chamber ofCommerce was organized for the purpose of advancing thecommercial, industrial, civic and general interests' ofRegina, and the adjacent agricultural community.

While the Regina Chamber ofCommerce is concerned primarily with issues involvingwith issues involving Regina and its environs, theChamber also adopts the broader view where nationalproblems are raised, and for this reason, the Chamberappreciates this opportunity to comment on the issuesinvolved in your Inquiry.

With the rapid depletion ofCanada's nonrenewable energy resources, it is obvious to


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us that energy discoveries in our north should be madeavailable to Canadian industry and other consumersultimately requiring such energy, regardless of thelocation within Canada of such industries and consumers,

The impact of the depletionof energy resources to an economy which has beendeveloped on the abundance of fossil fuels is sotraumatic that it is not necessary to elaborate.However, this impact on the economy of Canada'sfrontier is difficult to measure. It may well be thedevelopment of energy resources in our Arctic mightpresent to some a temporary illusion of great andpermanent prosperity, but this illusion could wellconvert to long term liability such as is becoming areality in the southern regions of our nation.

The Regina Chamber ofCommerce is cognizant of the legitimate claims ofnative people and we concur in the implementation ofall safeguards reasonably required to protect therights of the native people and the maintenance of thecultural integrity of the native community. We viewthis as the most sensitive area.

The Regina Chamber ofCommerce suggests that the maintenance of the pipelinesystem could well develop into being a nativeresponsibility so that they will obtain the directbenefit from the pipeline. A pipeline capable ofcarrying both Canadian and Alaskan gas would haveobvious economic advantages to both countries. TheRegina Chamber of Commerce feels that every effort


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should be made to encourage this approach of sharedcosts and responsibilities. However, we feel that interms of sale of Canadian gas to U.S. customers,American requirements for our gas may well be sharplyreduced with the availability of their own supplies.

Our paramount concern is thatthe immense investment required of Canadians at thistime should result in supplies which must be retainedfor Canadian consumers for as long as possible. Wemust not leave our children the legacy of a large debtload and empty pipes. The immense cost of thispipeline should serve as a warning that Canada mustbegin to invest substantial amounts in order todevelopment and harness other energy sources such assolar, nuclear, magnetic and the wind.

Although this item fallsoutside the scope of this Inquiry, the Regina Chambersuggests the Canadian Government either accept theresponsibility of funding such research or allow energyproducers tax benefits and other incentives so thatthey will conduct the research. We in Saskatchewanreside in summers requiring artificial cooling and inwinters requiring substantial heating. We knowtherefore that there can be no delay in theconstruction of the pipeline if we in this region areto remain viable from an environmental standpoint.

As well, our agricultureindustry depends greatly on the by-products of ourenergy resources The Regina Chamber urges that theconstruction of the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline be


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commenced as quickly as possible, as this, in ouropinion, is the over-riding concern in the welfare ofCanada. At the same tine, we urge that the Governmentof Canada negotiate an equitable agreement with thenative people so that their lifestyle will be preservedwith the minimum of disruption.

We recognize that theconstruction of the pipeline may well adversely affectour city of Regina. The manpower required for theproject could further increase the shortages alreadyexperienced in the Saskatchewan market, for manpowerlost to other regions is very difficult to replace. itmay be true that there are still production facilityand the pipe mill will experience a boom but the netresult of the pipeline may be detrimental to Regina'seconomy and to our lifestyle. We are however, preparedto accept this because of our belief that thecontinuation of the availability of a reliable Canadianenergy source offsets the short-term shortage ofavailable manpower, and the shortage of capital forother investments which will be created by the fundingof this project.

We thank you for theopportunity of appearing before you Mr. Commissioner.

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank youvery much sir. Thank you.(SUBMISSION OF THE REGINA CHAMBER OF COMMERCE MARKED ASEXHIBIT C-386)

(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Mr.


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Commissioner the next brief is from the Federation ofthe Saskatchewan Indians to be presented by a Mr. NoelStarblanket.

NOEL STARBLANKET, sworn;THE WITNESS: Mr. Justice

Berger, the Federation of Saskatchewan Indians,representative of 43, 000 Indian people in thisprovince welcomes indeed this opportunity to giveevidence to the Inquiry and to the proposed MackenzieValley Gas Pipeline.

I shall address myself onlyto the claims of the Indian people in the land of theNorthwest Territories. I shall begin by saying thatapproximately 100 years ago, the Indians of Canadasigned. treaties with the government through theQueen's Commissioners. Through these treaties, theconcept of Indian title to this great land that we knowas Canada was born to the common law and the laws ofthis country.

Today, 100 or so years later,I appear again, a descendant of my forefathers beforeanother of the Queen's Commissioners, only this time toask for support for my brothers in the north. It isironic that 100 years later we must ask the FederalGovernment for recognition of Indian title. 100 yearsago, Indians were given lands that were leastattractive. Today, Canada discovers that its resourcesare fast depleting and government is attempting toexplore in areas where Indian title has not yet beer.recognized.


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Canada in some semblancedecided to settle with Indians 100 years ago and in sodoing, bestowed upon herself some semblance of honor.Are we to believe that in 1,976 she will divest herselfof her remaining honor by allowing multinationalcorporations to rape and pillage the north and itsresidents?

The Federation ofSaskatchewan Indians supports the Indian Brotherhood ofthe Northwest Territories in their position, whichdemands that no decision be made on whether toconstruct a Mackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline until andonly until Indian people have negotiated a satisfactoryland settlement with the Federal Government of Canada.

In so doing, the Federation ofSaskatchewan Indians asks the Federal Government and thepeople of Canada to respect that law which requires theFederal Government to protect aboriginal lands fromwhite encroachment. We submit that our British commonlaw heritage recognizes aboriginal it is of land, andthat that law dictates that neither administrativeofficials of the government nor private persons maylawfully use or allow for the use of aboriginal landsuntil the land is properly ceded by treaty. In sodoing, the Federation of Saskatchewan Indians asks thepeople of Canada to honor their commitment to protectthe traditional lifestyle of the Indian people of theNorthwest Territories.

The Indian and Inuit peoplesof the Northwest Territories are the lawful occupants


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of their lands, with a legal as well as an equitableclaim to retain possession of it and to use itaccording to their own discretion. The Federation ofSaskatchewan Indians asks of Mr. Justice Thomas Bergerthat he recommend to the Federal Government thataboriginal lands be protected against any attemptedencroachment of administrative officials or industrialor commercial interests.

Thank you very much.(SUBMISSION OF THE FEDERATION OF SASKATCHEWAN INDIANSMARKED AS EXHIBIT C-387)


Commissioner, I wanted to note that on that the OXFAMbrief, the third brief given by Monica Schubert, therewas a petition with 32 signatures on it. I want tonote that.

I would call next Mr. JoeGunn and Mr. John Pilling who are with the SocialAction Desk of the Catholic Archdiocese of Regina.

JOE GUNNJOHN PILLING sworn;WITNESS PILLING: Mr.

Commissioner this brief was reserved by the Archdioceseof Regina for an ecumenical group and we represent theAnglican, the Presbyterian, the Roman Catholic and theUnited Church in the Province of Saskatchewan and wehave the signatories of their signing officers of thevarious dioceses, presbyteries and conferences of theUnited Church Conference here in this brief.


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Mr. Gunn will speak secondly.My name is Archdeacon Pilling of the Anglican church.Sorry.

This representation has beenpurposely kept short, It can be expanded upon request.It's purpose is threefold:1. Firstly to express our concern for the wellbeing ofthe indigenous people of the Mackenzie in the presenceof encroaching development.2. Secondly, to demonstrate our support for the landclaims of the indigenous people of the Mackenzie Riverarea.3. Thirdly, to indicate our unity with representationmade to this Commission and to various levels ofgovernments in other areas of this country by thechurches we represent.

We are aware of the terms ofreference of your Commission.1. With respect to the first, in Regina and otherSaskatchewan cities a growing proportion of thepopulation is of Indian or Metis ancestry. In thechurches, we are familiar both with the type oflifestyle and relationships which these people wereaccustomed to in the communities they left, as well aswith the tremendous adjustment all of us must make asthey come to live amongst us. While all of usencounter the sinful and dehumanizing effects of thisadjustment in increased prejudice, promiscuity andother ills, we also are aware of a struggle to livetogether in hope, harmony and justice.


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Our concern is that theadjustment required by native peoples coming into anindustrial milieu is imposed upon a community from theoutside. We insist therefore that, the point being madethere, is that the adjustment being made in the Mackenziewill be exactly the same as the adjustment made here,even though people came here, and it's going to beimposed from the outside there. We insist therefore thatfurther development in the Mackenzie only tale placeunder the control and influence of the indigenouspeople.2. The second point; we have read the Dene Declarationand the Nunavut of the limit and the appeals of thepeople of the Mackenzie that the issue of land claims besettled, and settled prior to any further development,and we wish to support them in this. Surely theGovernment of Canada and any larger developer will heable to work more effectively with an owner who aspiresto benefit from development, than with a surly tenant.Furthermore, it is probably that a refusal to settle landclaims would lead to embarrassing and unnecessary civildisorder in the Mackenzie area.

We, of Saskatchewan, wouldnot wish a repeat of the events of the rebellions thatinvolved similar issues and which took place on theprairies a century ago. Therefore, we strongly supportthe demands of the indigenous people of the Mackenzie,that their land claims be settled and that they hesettled prior to further development.3. Thirdly, finally, we wish to reiterate the


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representations that have been made to the variousgovernments in Canada by our representative churchesand to place these before you. We include the motionsof the General Synod of the Anglican Church of Canada,the Labor Day Message of the Bishops of the RomanCatholic Church of Canada and the statements of theGeneral Council of the United Church of Canada.

Furthermore, this brief hashad wide circulation and the affidavit which followshas been signed by officers of the dioceses,conferences, presbyteries, parishes and charges andcongregations all over this province of Saskatchewanand the affidavit is:

This brief, including theappended documents, have been read by me and while itis not possible for me to investigate the entire matterpersonally, I consider the study of this brief to bethe best investigation I am able to make. I statetherefore, that I am content to rely on it and I adoptit as my own.

Thank you very much.THE COMMISSIONER: Thank

you.WITNESS GUNN: Mr.

Commissioner, ladies and gentlemen, my name is Joe Gunnand I am representing the Social Action Department ofthe Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Regina.

If I could start off firstwith a quote from the Bishop's Labor Day Message:"The Canadian north is fast becoming a center stage in


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a continental struggle to gain control of new energysources. The critical issue is how these northernenergy resources are to be developed by whom and forwhom ."

In two documents, namely"Northern Development: At What Cost?" and "JusticeDemands Action ", the Roman Catholic Church in Canadahas made its position absolutely clear on the issue ofdevelopment north of the 60th parallel. In Regina theSocial Action Department has not only fully supportedthese documents but more importantly is working toensure their broad distribution, discussion andaffirmation by all members of the church. In effect,we have written this working paper to explain how weare using the two documents above to educate Canadiansto the real issues in the development of the north ingeneral and specifically the Mackenzie Valley Pipelinequestion at this particular historical moment. Truly,Judge Berger was correct in noting that:

"...this Inquiry is not just about a pipeline.It relates to the whole future of the north."

To be effectivepedagogically:, we find we must question some basicconcepts involved; concepts like progress, development,national interest, and justice, for example. It is alsonecessary to determine how the interest groups who wieldthe power o definition of these concepts in our societyare using that privilege. We think it will be clear aswe continue Mr. Berger that we have to redefine theseconcepts in order to explain the position of our church


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in support of the Dene and Inuit people.There seem to be two crucial

questions involved in this discussion which we willattempt to address in the context we have just presented1. Firstly, is the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline necessaryat this time? The five major Christian churches inCanada have asked Cabinet to declare a moratorium onmajor resource developments in the NorthwestTerritories. We should take some time here to examinetheir arguments for taking this position.1. Firstly, the immediate and conclusive need for apipeline to bring frontier gas supplies to markets insouthern Canada and the United States has not yet beenestablished. It is extremely difficult to projectdemand forecasts for energy, as one can see in thedivergence of conclusions presented to the NationalEnergy Board,2. Canadian Arctic Gas Pipeline Limited, theconsortium of 27 companies applying to build themultibillion dollar pipeline reports that Canada willhave shortages of natural gas by 1980.3. Yet other studies suggest that southern Canada hasenough gas to meet domestic and export commitmentsuntil 1989.4. In 1971, the Minister of Energy, Mines andResources told Canadians that we have 392 years of gassupply left. With this wide variance, it has becomenext to impossible for intelligent public participationin resource planning. Surely the government couldprovide more adequate estimations in order to


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encourage! and not deflate the important component ofcitizen participation.

While we have attempted toanalyze the projected natural gas needs for Canada andSaskatchewan, we note with interest, the position ofour Provincial Government before the National EnergyBoard last November and we heard Mr. Black thisevening, the person who made this presentation.

"Saskatchewan submits that the Canadian marketeast of Alberta, the only portion of the totalCanadian market forecast by the National EnergyBoard to be deficient before 1985, might not re-quire access to frontier supplies until severalyears after the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline in-service date proposed by the applicants, thatis, 1979.

Saskatchewan respectfullysubmits, therefore, that it would not necessarily be inCanada's interest to proceed with the construction of aMackenzie Valley Gas Pipeline as early as proposed bythe applicants."

This shows, Mr. Commissionthat there are voices in the south as well as the northsuggesting that the pipeline does not have to becompleted in such an all fired hurry. We have the timeas you have said, "To do this thing right".

We must also call intoquestion the Canadian Government policy of exporting tothe United States of America 40 percent of our annualnatural gas production. Certainly if we exported less


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energy, we could have a longer period of time toconclusively deal with these crucial issues in a morerational way. Also, we believe there is a fundamentaldifference between sharing our energy with those whoneed it and selling it to the largest energy consumingcountry in the world. Here is a situation where thisdefinition of national interest in terms of acting as aresource supplier for the richest country in the worldmust be challenged. If we do have an exportablesurplus of natural gas in Canada or energy in Canada,would it not seem to be more in our national interestto share it with the poorest countries of the world?

Finally, we must ask whetherthe Mackenzie Valley Pipeline would have to beconsidered now at all if Canadians took to heart theBishop's call to responsible stewardship. In the last25 years they tell us Canada's consumption of fossilfuel and hydro-electric power has increased four times.With only six and a half percent of the 'world'spopulation, North Americans consume more than 43percent of the energy used on this planet.

The facts here presented leadus to see the need to change many of Canada's basicsocial priorities in view of the great disparities andin wealth and opportunity herein the rest of the world.This is what the Bishops want to us consider when theyreflect on justice and stewardship:

"In the final analysis, what is required isnothing less than fundamental social change".

It is a myth that everyone in


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the world could also consume this exorbitant amount ofenergy if they only tried to be like us. Alarmingly,we know that these resources are non-renewable, so wehave before us a joint problem, finite supply andexponentially growing demand. The only long-termsolution to providing adequate energy for all Canadiansis intelligent, sparing use of renewable types ofenergy and as yet there is an obvious lack of policy inthis area.

Those of us presenting thebrief tonight do not agree with those who tell us thata Mackenzie Valley Pipeline is necessary at this pointin time. Rather, we dedicate ourselves to work forthat change that will produce a more equitable andsparing basis for our lives, and we have seen theBishop's letter encourage many to do the same.

The second crucial questionin the consideration of the Mackenzie Valley Pipelineis who wants the pipeline? Who will control it andwho will benefit from it? On this point, the Bishopsmake themselves extremely clear. They say:

"The maximization of consumption, power andprofit has become the operating principle ofthis society. These are the driving forces be-hind the present continental struggle to gaincontrol of northern energy resources."

Mr. Commissioner, we have toreflect here on the entire rationale of grandioseresource development schemes. We can only surmise thatthere will be unequal if not negligible benefits to


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northerners and southerners alike if this model isfollowed. The decision between the proposals ofCanadian Arctic Gas and Foothills is really a decisionbetween whether Canada will be a raw resource supplierto the United States or whether Canada's north will bea raw resource supplier to Canada's south. Ourprevious considerations on the necessity of a pipelineconcern both of these proposals. It is extremelydifficult to estimate the social, economical, culturaland environmental costs of a pipeline whether itcarrier; .a price tag of 6 or $12 billion. Surely themore important issue is whether any pipeline should hebuilt at all.

We cannot support any schemewhich siphons off northern resources for the benefit ofan external economy, thus preventing future developmentchosen by northerners. It would seem obvious thatprojects of this magnitude must serve the publicinterest and we echo the Bishops' call that:

"... future resource development must be mademore accountable to the Canadian public".

and:"We are especially concerned that the future ofthe north not be determined by colonial patternsof development, wherein a powerful few end upcontrolling both the people and the resources."

This is why our churchsupports the Done and Inuit position:

"No pipeline before a just land claims settlement"It has been pointed out that


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the pipeline proposal represents a colonial philosophyof development, but a land claim for the native peoplecould allow them to build a community model.

Presently, they are forced toconsider the totally alien concept of a gas pipeline ina very limited time span, because this is a southernpriority. A land claim would provide the opportunityfor them to develop their own powers of definitiontheir own concepts of development, progress and justicein the Canadian partnership. Land claims must be seenas a long-term solution, as an entrenchment rather thana denial of native rights. This relationship wasexpressed magnificently to this very Commission, inFort McPherson when a native spokesman suggested:

"We have always tried to treat our guests well.It never occurred to us that our guests wouldone day claim they owned our whole house, yetthat is exactly what is happening."

To conclude Mr. Chairman, wehave tried to present to you and the people ofSaskatchewan our reasons for throwing full supportbehind the statements of the church leaders, but alsowe wanted you to know how we have addressed this issuein our discussions with our church membership.

I might add that during theStanley Cup playoffs, Imperial oil was bombardingCanadians with commercials in programming time costingr $12, 000 a minute and all of these commercial'focused on the tough, hard, expensive job of supplyingenergy for us. While we realize that there is no way


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we can mount an education campaign quite equal to that,you can be assured that we will continue to advocate adifferent vision of development, progress and nationalinterest to Canadians for we believe:

"That the struggle for justice and responsiblestewardship in the north today is the voice ofthe Lord among us."

I thank you.(SUBMISSION OF THE CATHOLIC ARCHDIOCESE OF REGINAMARKED AS EXHIBITS C-388(a) & (b))


Commissioner. I had been asked by Mr. Allan Richardswho I believe is from Saskatoon that they have time togive an additional brief on behalf of the SaskatoonPresbytery of the United Church of Canada, and I have anote that in view of the statement of the Archdioceseof Regina, that he doesn't think it will be necessaryto present the separate brief, but he would like tofile this brief, and so I'll file it on behalf of theSaskatoon Presbytery of the United Church of Canada.(SUBMISSION OF THE SASKATOON PRESBYTERY OF THE UNITEDCHURCH OF CANADA MARKED AS EXHIBIT C-389)

MR. WADDELL: Mr.Commissioner, we have some coffee. I would like tohear one more brief before we go for it, and so perhapswe could do that. I'd call upon the brief of theSaskatchewan Federation of Labor, and Pat Gallagherwill present that brief on behalf of the Federation.

PAT GALLAGHER sworn;


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THE COMMISSIONER: Go aheadplease.

THE WITNESS: The SaskatchewanFederation of Labor represent 51, 000 workers in thisprovince. We are pleased to appear before this Inquiryto state our support for a settlement of native landclaims prior to the decision being made on theapplication to build the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline.

The Canadian north has beencited as the major region for potential reserves of oiland gas. Assisted by the Federal Government, thegiants of the oil industry, EXXON, Shell, Gulf, Mobileand Sinocco and others have led the way through theirCanadian subsidiaries in making discoveries and ininitiating plans to build several major industrialprojects of which the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline is asignificant one.

It is our contention thatsettlement of the land claims issue granting aboriginaltitles to the northern native peoples is simple humanjustice. The Canadian Government is on the threshold ofa most important decision. They can assist the Dene andInuit peoples to achieve not only dignity, but economicself-sufficiency and social and cultural survival. Thealternative is continued colonial rule at an ever-increasing cost to tie Canadian taxpayer coupled withdestruction of a culture and the consignment of a proudand independent people to a marginal existence on poorwages and government handouts.

The life that persists in the


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north has been described as everything from 19thcentury colonialism to feudalism. There is a greatdeal of truth in both of these descriptions, despitethe rhetoric about decolonizing the north and bringingit into the 20th century. The north and northernnative people are effectively ruled in this colonialfashion by a white minority of R.C.M.P., teachers,welfare workers, government officials, the Bay,employers and medical personnel.

The people, because of a sumtotal of oppressive institutions over them, lack anyeffective democratic control over their lives. Thecolonialism is not just a matter of lack ofconsultation or the high-handed manipulations ofgovernment bureaucrat but something much more profound.It is built right into the physical lay-out of northerncommunities. Typically, these communities aresegregated along racial grounds, with white enclaveshuddled together to make modern amenities such as waterand sewage easier and cheaper to supply.

I'd like to add at this pointthat I taught school in northern Manitoba prior to mypresent position with the Saskatchewan Federation ofLabor, and the descriptions that I have read of thesituations in the Northwest Territories are extremelysimilar to northern Saskatchewan and certainly similarto northern Manitoba.

Many well intentioned,idealist welfare people and teachers adopt what hasbeen called a culture of poverty analysis in an attempt


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to understand the situation they find themselves in.The cultural poverty concept assumes that poor peopleare poor because something is wrong with them. Itassumes that even if decent paying, regular, reasonableand long-term employment were offered to poor people.they would refuse to work and prefer to vegetate onwelfare because of some deep perversity in their ownculture. The fact that decent regular jobs arevirtually unavailable is deliberately ignored by such atheory, that so-called social problems, violence andbrutality can all be linked to unemployment is a secondmajor premise necessary to combat the culture ofpoverty theory.

Even though decent employmentitself does not solve everything, it is the first an.irreplaceable step out of the ultra-oppression ofpoverty and colonialism. A Canadian Arctic Gas studyon the Social and Economic Impact of the ProposedPipeline, predicted problems in trying to incorporatenative people into a standard wage economy. Thegreatest advantage to the native people is purported tobe increased opportunities for employment. However,after a two to three year construction period duringwhich skilled labor would probably be imported from thesouth, it is estimated that only 200 workers berequired for permanent pipeline maintenance. Moreover,most of the jobs will be in a few centre...".'locations and many native people are not willing toleave their homes for the dubious benefits of this kindof employment.


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A settlement grantingaboriginal title would enable the native peoples todirect the course of resource extraction in a way thatwould be beneficial to the entire population of theNorthwest Territories. Ownership of the land wouldgive them authority to control the rents from resourcedevelopment and initiate economic activities relevantto their own needs and priorities.

Since the construction of theDEW Line in the 1950's and the development of largerurban centers such as Inuvik, the north and its peoplehave seen many changes, the largest being the emergenceof an ethnic based class system. Although some nativenortherners have benefited from the encroachments made bysouthern money and technology, the vast majority arewitness to an enormous contrast in living conditions,opportunity and power between whites and natives with thegap continuing to widen. Up until now, the harsh realityof settlement life characterized by lack of economicopportunity, poverty and powerlessness was confined toplaces like Inuvik and other settled communities.

The land itself remaineduntouched and was as such a refuge from town lifefor some, and a source of income for many more. Bythe mid-sixties , the assault on the land began.Mineral and oil exploration, seismic blasting,bulldoze and helicopters appeared with increasingfrequency. The significance of this assault doesnot appear to he understood by either the oilcompanies or the vast majority of white southerners.


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It is in fact, the final straw, the catalyst givingrise to an increasing political consciousness amongnative northern people.

The value of the land tonative people cannot he replaced with jobs andindustry and townlife. Jobs are a resource to theexploited towards specific ends. The land and itsresources are permanent and a source of security andwell-being. Native people are looking for a betterand, more prosperous life, a way which will allow theirto control development and use it as a tool. The landhas become their bargaining power.

It is our understanding thatboth the Dene and Inuit land claims are based onaboriginal title; simply put, property rights of nativepeople over lands which they have traditionally usedand occupied from time immemorial. In the case of theInuit, no treaties were ever signed nor were theyconquered in war. Although treaties were signed by theDene people in 1899 and 1921, the validity of thesetreaties is questioned. Dene people have testified thetreaties to be only of peace and friend-ship, not arelinquishment of land.

The Inuit are claiming asubstantial portion of land sufficient to guarantee theintegrity of their communities and an economic base fortheir future. They want the choice to sustain theirtraditional hunting and trapping activities r3 to havesome measure of control over resource developmentthrough self-governing institutions.


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The Dene, in ourunderstanding want self-determination, by which theymean the right to govern themselves throughinstitutions of their choice. They want as wellguaranteed long-term political security by which theymean the assurance of a land base sufficient to allowcontrol over future political and economic developmentin the north.

They want economicindependence through a resource base that would enablethem to develop economic alternatives to fit theirneeds and desires and free them future dependence onwelfare.

Finally, they want culturalsurvival, by which they mean recognition of the Dene asa cultural, distinct people free to determine their owncultural development within the Canadian framework. Wequote from James T Wah-Shee who has stated:

"We see a land development as the means by whichto define the native community of interest in thenorth, and not to obscure it. This is why westress in the land settlement model we put for-ward- that formalization of our rights is our es-sential goal, rather than the extinguishment ofthose rights. The land settlement model put for-ward by the Indian people of the north is based ona developmental principle firmly rooted in the ex-pressed needs of a region and distinct people."

At this crucial time inSaskatchewan -- in Canadian history, we feel it


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represents an opportunity for this country to adopt adevelopment policy which will closely approximateregional and national interest, rather than the policiesimplicit in choices in the past. Support us." TheSaskatchewan Federation of Labor strongly supports thispoint of view.

Thank you.(SUBMISSION OF THE SASKATCHEWAN FEDERATION OF LABORMARKED AS EXHIBIT C-390)


Commissioner I should have told you that Pat Gallagheris executive assistant with the Federation of Labor andshe spells her last name G-a-l-l-a-g-h-e-r. I don'thave that on the list.

Mr. Commissioner, could wehave an adjournment now for coffee? I think we havecoffee outside for as many people as we can.

THE COMMISSIONER: Allright.Before we adjourn, perhaps I might comment on anobservation that was made early in the proceedings thisevening. There was a trace, I think, of cynicism about --expressed about the government's establishing thisInquiry.

I think it's worth myrepeating what I have indicated before at thesehearings that the Minister of Indian Affairs andNorthern Development Mr. Buchanan has said now on manyoccasions that the government will not made a decision


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about the pipeline and the energy corridor until thisInquiry and the National Energy Board have reported tothe government. Mr. Macdonald, who is now the FinanceMinister but used to be Minister of Energy and hissuccessor, Mr. Gillespie have both given that assurancein the House of Commons.

I think you should rememberthat the Order-in-Council establishing this Inquiry wasan Order-in-Council passed by the Government of Canada,and the Order-in-Council confers a mandate on thisInquiry unprecedented in its magnitude, because it saysthis Inquiry is to examine the social, economic andenvironmental consequences of a large scale frontierdevelopment before and not after, the fact. That isunique in the Canadian experience, and I daresay in theexperience of any country that you or I could name.

The Government of Canada hasprovided funds to this Inquiry to enable it to carryout its mandate. The government has provided funds onthe recommendation of this Inquiry to nativeorganizations representing the Dene people of theMackenzie Valley, that is, the Indian and Metis people;the Indian people of the Yukon and the Inuit people ofthe Mackenzie Delta and the Beaufort Sea communities.

Funds have been provided toenvironmental groups to northern municipalities and tonorthern business to enable them to participate. Allof that money was provided by the Government of Canada.The Government of Canada has given this Inquiry thepower of subpoena to get the evidence that it needs.


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The Inquiry has spent many, many months going intovirtually every settlement and village in the MackenzieValley, the Mackenzie Delta, the perimeter of theBeaufort Sea and the northern Yukon to listen to theviews of the Canadians who live there, of all races,who want to express their view and tell this Inquiryand all of us about their hopes and their fears for thefuture.

The Government of Canada hasspent $15 million over the past five years in studiesand reports -- the development of studies and reportson the Mackenzie Valley and the Mackenzie Delta, All ofthose studies and reports have been made available tothis Inquiry. I should say that the industry has spentsomething like $50 million on studies and reportsrelating to the engineering and environmental problemsto be encountered in the north.

The universities have beenstudying northern conditions for many years and thisInquiry has spent many, many months bringing the peoplewho have written these reports to the Inquiry's formalhearings at Yellowknife where their view whether theybe on caribou on whales, on permafrost, on frost heave,on the impact of alcohol on native communities -- on amultitude of subjects. These people have all beenbrought to Yellowknife and there they have beenexamined and cross-examined so that all of thesestudies and reports don't sit on the shelves gatheringdust, or simply appear from time to time in academicjournals, so that the people who have spent their lives


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studying the north and northern conditions can maketheir contribution at the inquiry's hearings to thewhole decision making process.

All of that has been donewith funds provided by and under a mandate conferred bythe Government of Canada, and I think that it should bemade plain that all of these things have been done, andI think it's fundamental that they should have hivedone and continue to he done. All of these things havebeen done with the support and with funds provided bythe Government of Canada.

So, I'll leave you with thatthought and we'll have a cup of coffee and then returnin a few minutes to hear the remainder of the briefs.

Thank you.(PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED FOR A FEW MINUTES)


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(PROCEEDINGS RESUMED PURSUANT TO ADJOURNMENT)THE COMMISSIONER: I think

we'll call our hearing to order. Let's take our seats,ladies and gentlemen. All right, Mr. Waddell?

MR. WADDELL: I don't knowif you need a pitch fork here, Mr. Commissioner, but Ithink we'll get started.

The next brief we have on thelist, sir, is Mr. Peter Prebble, the Saskatoon Environmental Society. Mr. Prebble?

PETER PREBBLE, sworn:THE WITNESS: Justice

Berger, I am presenting this brief on behalf of theSaskatoon Environmental Society, and I'd like to beginby saying that our Environmental Society thanks you forthe opportunity to be able to present our deep concernson this issue to your Inquiry.

This submission tonight isbased on a series of resolutions that were passed atour Annual Meeting on May 5th of this year. TheSaskatoon Environmental Society is strongly opposed tothe proposal for the development of a gas pipeline andenergy corridor in the Mackenzie Valley and MackenzieDelta, We oppose the project on social, environmentaland economic grounds. If it goes ahead it will, in ourview, be one of the most unjust and disastrous actsever to be committed in Canada. It will probably be avery short-sighted business investment, as well.

First of all, we oppose a


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pipeline on its environmental implications, and we doso for many reasons:1. We are strongly against the exploitation ofpetroleum resources in the Beaufort Sea. Biologistshave told your Inquiry that offshore drilling carriesunknown environmental risks because current biologicalknowledge of the area is extremely limited. Theenvironmental study that was carried out is apparentlyvery incomplete. Several witnesses have said that thepresent technology for offshore drilling is extremelyinadequate, and that the technology to properly dealwith a blowout does not exist. Given drillingaccidents that we understand Dome Petroleum has alreadyexperienced, and accidents that have taken place inpreliminary drilling in the High Arctic, and given thefrequent storms in the area as well as much fog andextremely dangerous floating ice, we consider thechances of an oil blowout to be much, much higher thanaverage. If an oil blowout does occur, weatherconditions could mean that it will be months before itcan be stopped, and it could take years to clean up.One blowout could have catastrophic effects on thehighly sensitive environment, and destroy the abilityof the Inuit people to live on the natural resources ofthe land and sea.

A natural gas blowout couldalso have serious environmental effects, especially ifit resulted in the destruction of a drill ship, withlubricants, fuel and toxicants on board.

COPE has informed us that up


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to 250 wells or well clusters could be drilled.Clearly in light of what we've said, the risks areidiotic. We strongly agree with Dr. Pimlott's positionthat it is,

"not ... in the national interest to put at riskthe natural resource base of native peoples andthe Arctic environment in this way and at thistime."

2. You have often mentioned that we are not justtalking about the development of a gas pipeline, butan entire energy corridor, and an oil pipeline willlikely follow, and the president of Arctic Gas hassaid that a second gas pipeline will likely be startedwithin five years of the first. A major highway isbeing built, and other developments will follow.

Yet it seems to us that themain emphasis of research that has been done seems tohave been done mostly on the gas pipeline. It has beensaid by Canadian Arctic Gas Limited that -- and wequote from the summaries of the hearings --

"that until the details of an oil pipeline areknown, impact predictions cannot be made withany degree of certainty."

The point is that the details are not known, althoughestimates have been presented to the effect that theimpact of an oil pipeline will be three to five times asgreat as that of a gas pipeline, and it's been suggestedthat the environmental impacts of the highway could besix to ten times as great. Yet any environmental studiesthat were done on the highway, to our knowledge, have not


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been made public by the government. Clearly at thepresent time, adequate assessment simply cannot be givento the impact of an energy corridor, and thus we opposesuch a development taking place.3. We further oppose the pipeline because we feel thatseveral environmental judgments are being made inbasically what we consider to be information vacuums,and these information vacuums relate not just to theenergy corridor which I just referred to, butspecifically to the gas pipeline, as we see it, and weare afraid of what this will mean in terms of theanimal and fish life of the north, and thus also of thenative people. The Dempster Highway could be a threatto the Porcupine caribou herd. There appears to be alack of research on the effects of spills and toxicsubstances on fish and vegetation. It has been statedthat there is no quantitative data to assess the impactof developments on the reindeer herd in the delta andsummary 56 points out that,

"no research has been done to assess the effecton whales of the development activities proposedfor Shallow and Liverpool Bays."

We are very concerned about these information vacuums.4. Also this is the first pipeline in the world to bebuilt in the permafrost. It seems that there are stillmany uncertainties of the impact of the buried chilledpipeline n the surface terrain, for instance in termsof heaving problems, in transition zones frompermafrost to non-permafrost soils. It's also beensaid that inadequate testing of the pipeline has been


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done in terms of the variety of soil types the pipelinehas to pass through, and in terms of the fact that thetesting period has not been long enough yet to rallydetermine whether the pipeline can stand up. We werealso concerned that scheduling difficulties regardingremoval of equipment before the summer could causeconsiderable environmental damage,5. Finally, in terms of the environment, we must saythat we lack confidence in the attitude of the FederalGovernment towards the environment, especially asdisplayed in their activities and lack of concern forenvironmental considerations prior to the appointmentof your Inquiry. These have been documented in"Northern Perspectives," the Canadian Arctic ResourcesCommittee Publication.

In short, we see thisdevelopment having major environmental risks for theMackenzie Delta and Beaufort Sea, We feel that thecumulative effects of energy corridor developmentscould be most serious, and we are dissatisfied with theobvious inadequacies in research data and intechnological capability.

We agree with the assessmentof the Canadian Arctic Resources Committee when theysay that the north is being experimented with. OurEnvironmental Society is also strongly opposed to thepipeline project and energy corridor in terms of itssocial and economic consequences for the north, andagain we have many reasons.1. The large majority of native people in the north


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appear to be opposed to the project. It is clear thattheir traditional way of life, including their hunting,fishing and trapping activities, is threatened. Therecord of white activity in the north is surely badenough without making things worse, and again ignoringthe desires of our fellow Canadians.2. It seems to us that if this pipeline goes ahead,history will inevitably repeat itself. Developments inInuvik have apparently already resulted in socialproblems, and we understand that many communities alongthe TransAlaska Highway have been destroyed.3. We feel that this energy corridor is virtuallyforcing a wage economy on the people of the north. Theeconomic viability of the traditional ways of life arelikely to decline. We think this represents a realinjustice, and maintain that the right of the nativepeople to live off the land must be guaranteed.4. This is especially important considering thetraditional ways for the native people to make aliving, considering that these ways have long-termviability, whereas the pipeline is clearly a short-termproject, and we think this is a most important point.The pipeline is only expected to take three years tobuild, and the companies have admitted that there willbe very few permanent jobs after the pipeline isconstructed. We heard a figure of 200 tonight. Wenoted that Michael Asch, Professor of Anthropology hasbeen quoted as estimating 150 permanent jobs. Whatwill happen when the pipeline is no longer in use andit's abandoned in 20-25 years' time?


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We are most upset about thefailure of the Federal Government to consult with thelocal people of the north on a great many mattersrelated to this pipeline, and this is another reason ofopposition and concern for us. The leasing of thenorth for exploration purposes has been carried out, toour knowledge, without involving local people, or forthat matter without consulting the Canadian public.Nor was there consultation on how or where explorationwould take place. Plans for an all-weather highway upthe Mackenzie Valley were made and announced withoutconsultation, Similar statements can be made about theFederal Government's decisions to approve in Principethe pipeline itself, and to approve in principledrilling operations in the Beaufort Sea.

Our position then is that weoppose the exploitation of the native people in thenorth for the purposes of this relatively short-ternresource development and support the principle thatdevelopment in the north should be in consultation withand where possible, under the control of the localpeople.

Our final point in this ofthis project regard to the social consequences is onthe matter of land claims. Quite simply, theEnvironmental Society advocates settlement of nativeland claims in the Mackenzie Valley and Mackenzie Deltaarea prior to any major resource development takingplace in the north.

With regard to this specific


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pipeline and energy corridor development, however, wemust emphasize that even once land claims are settled,we would still be completely against the project.

We have a couple of otherpoints we would like to bring before your Inquiry inthis submission.

First of all, weunderstand on the basis of a press release whichappeared in the "Star Phoenix" on March 30th, thatthe United States Interior Department has suggesteddelaying a decision on this whole issue for fiveyears. We think that this is quite a significantrecommendation coming from a United StatesDepartment of Government, and reflects the ominousimplications of this pipeline development.

Secondly, we would begrateful for a brief opportunity to react to statementsthat have been made by the companies and by some at thehearings at our neighboring provinces, namely, that weneed these gas reserves in order to avoid an energycrisis. In our opinion, these statements are a lot offoolishness. The known gas reserves of the MackenzieDelta are at most 7 trillion cubic feet. In termsCanadian domestic consumption, it would at most beequivalent to our natural gas consumption for fiveyears, an-I it's going to be extremely high-pricednatural gas.

There are wide differences ofopinion over what the estimated reserves from the deltaand Beaufort Sea are, but we see them as just that,


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they are estimates, with not necessarily a great dealof foundation to all of them. Moreover, ourEnvironmental Society cannot forget that the optimisticestimates come from the same companies who told usrecently that their optimistic estimates of SouthernCanadian reserves were incorrect, and that we wouldsoon be experiencing shortages. So we question howmuch faith we can put in the companies. We think thereis a good argument to be made for the fact that thisproject is likely to be economically unfeasible from anoverall Canadian point of view.

At best, even if reservesturn out to be 20 or even 30 trillion cubic feet, weare talking about a very short-term solution to ourenergy problem. In addition there are seriousquestions in regard to how much of the gas from thenorth, Canadians will actually get to use in light ofseveral indications that present reserves and much ofthe gas yet to be discovered has already been presoldto gas consuming companies in the United States. Nowthis could be reversed by the National Energy Board,but we see it as posing a real problem.

We do not think that we needthis gas at all. Southern Canadian reserves are stillin the order of 50 to 60 trillion cubic feet, and witha serious conservation on the part -- conservationeffort on the part of Canadians, and a reversal inrate structures that now favor the large consumer ofgas we think that shortages could be avoided for sometime.


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Moreover, an we feel this isvery important, solar energy is already competitive,with conventional energy resources in the U.S., andwould certainly be cheaper in Canada than high-pricednorthern gas . We see the potential for solar energytechnology being very clear, and we would advocate thatthe Canadian Government put its dollars that it isspending on this pipeline into the development of solarenergy which would be a long-term solution to ourenergy problem, and not a short-term solution as thepipeline is.

In this context we see thatit makes no sense at all to risk the permanentdestruction of the traditional native way of life andsevere long-lasting damage to the northernenvironment for the sake of a short-term supplementto our energy resources. Thus our Society is opposedin the strongest manner to the development of theMackenzie Valley Pipeline.

Thank you.


Commissioner, I call now on Colin Stewart of a GroupConcerned Citizens in Saskatoon. Mr. Stewart?

COLIN STEWART affirmed:THE WITNESS: Mr.

Commissioner, on behalf of the 25 people who have


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signed this submission, I'd like to thank you for theopportunity to speak here tonight.

We support in principle theDene Declaration. Historically, in all of the Americasincluding Canada, a pattern of aggressive colonialexploitation has driven indigenous peoples from theirtraditional lands and placed them at the mercy of analien culture and brutalizing technology. The evidencefor this is clear from historical record, and it isonly in an historical context that the presentsituation in the Northwest Territories makes sense.Colonial exploitation is part of a continuing patternin the north, and the Dene Declaration is one of thefirst overt signs of resistance we in the southern partof the country have seen. The present Government ofthe Northwest Territories is a colonial government, andin this sense as the Minister of Indian Affairs &Northern Development recently stated, the people of thenorth do have a government; but he neglected to saythat it is not a government of the people.

Colonial governments, howeverbenevolent in appearance, have always been abettors inthe process of commercial exploitation and exploitationwill continue in the north until a government suitableto the people is constituted. Accordingly, we urgethis Inquiry to recommend to the Government of Canadathat:

Negotiations beam immediately with the Denepeople to determine the best means of establishin self-determination among the Dene people,


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with transfer of power to be achieved in one totwo years.

2. We support the principle that no furtherdevelopment should take place in the north until allland claims are settled with the Dene and' Inuitpeople. Concurrent with negotiations, and as part fthem, this principle would have to be accepted.Settlement of land claims would not be an act ofgenerosity on the part of the Canadian people andgovernment, but rather a large step toward justice,towards righting historical wrongs. Assuming for themoment government support of the principles of self-determination and of settlement of land claims, weaccept the consequences of this. Notably a delay oreven a long-term postponement of development in thenorth in regards to extraction of fossil fuels. Theimplications of this are many, but they affect directlythe relationship that currently exists between thegovernment and the major oil producers, and in the longrun they affect our lifestyle, it is a matter of recordthat the Canadian Government has $ accepted falsefigures for known reserves of natural gas, and thesefigures have come from the large transnationalcompanies which are now in the north. Historically theCanadian Government has succumbed to pressure fordevelopment from the companies to satisfy the UnitedStates market and as a consequence now finds itselfunable to assure future energy supplies on a self-sufficiency basis. The solution now being pressed uponus and the native peoples is more development.


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In reality, by opposing rapidexploitation of the transnationals the native peopleare compelling us in the south into a very necessaryand overdue review of our relationship to American andto some extent Canadian capital. In this they aredoing a service to all Southern Canadians who wish toretain control of their own economy.

In the interests of making aprofit, we are being asked to extract resources fromthe north which have only a limited lifetime. At somepoint these, too, will run out and we will be facedwith the question of altering our lifestyle drasticallyWe see no need to postpone the inevitable, especiallyat the high human cost to the people of the north. Onthe contrary, we would urge the government to introducenecessary measures of energy conserving nature that.are more than cosmetic. This may mean rationing offuel; it may mean some rather severe dislocations inour economy. But it's much easier for we in the southto bear this than it is for the northern people to"adjust" to rapid development. Much higher priorityshould be given to research and to alternativerenewable energy resources which have, in comparison tothe money allocated to northern development, received amere pittance.

Finally, at a deeper level.the native people are saying to us that there is something wrong with a culture -- our culture -- whichviews land and resources as a commodity to be bought,sold, and owned by individuals either personally or as


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a corporation. We who have signed this petition haveseen some of the human costs involved in such a view,and are open to the somewhat painful changes that willhave to be made in altering our cultural view of theland. This is a particularly important point inSaskatchewan where the economy is agricultural andbased on private ownership of the land.

If I may, as a personal notebefore I close, I've worked for some months in the pastas a laborer on pipeline construction and as aprospector-blaster in Northern Saskatchewan on largediameter pipe construction, and I think the mentalityon the part of management which is conveyed and carriedout by the laborers and by the workers on the pipelinecan best be characterized as a cowboy mentality.

"If it's in the way, kill it; if it's in theway, blast a hole through it, but let's get thejob done, "

With that I cannot agree, andfor that reason I remain profoundly skeptical ofpipeline proposals in the north

Thank you.(SUBMISSION OF GROUP OF CONCERNED CITIZENS IN SASKATOON- C. STEWART - MARKED EXHIBIT C-39l)

(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Judge Berger,

I have an additional brief from Mr. Al Taylor ofRegina, who asked that I file it for him, and I'd liketo do that.(SUBMISSION BY A. TAYLOR MARKED EXHIBIT C-392)


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MR. WADDELL: I'd call uponnow Professor E.A. Maginnes, who is with the Departmentof Horticultural Science at the University ofSaskatchewan, and I believe in his brief, sir, he'sgoing to show some slides to illustrate his brief, andperhaps he can ;I've up our chairs so that he can

THE COMMISSIONER: Certainlywe can see them.

E.A MAGINNES sworn:THE WITNESS: Mr.

Commissioner, my name is Ed Maginnes, and I have withme George Green also from the university. The briefthat we are going to present represents some workthat is based on the findings of a research team inthe area of waste heat and greenhouse production atthe University of Saskatchewan. It is not our aim toreport on the ecological and sociological advantagesor disadvantages of the pipeline, but to give yousome idea of a waste product that could be used toadvantage should the pipeline be built. That is thewaste energy from the exhaust gases of the compressorstations that would be used to propel the gas alongthe pipeline.

THE COMMISSIONER: Excuseme. sir, this is a proposal that has been mooted beforeat the Inquiry, and I'm anxious, I'm very anxious tohear what you and your colleague have to say about it.Would you mind just telling us for the record yourposition you hold at the university and your


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credentials with respect to this matter? Forgive me,but if we want to pursue it further at our hearings inYellowknife, then if your experience appears on therecord it will simplify things for all of us.

A Myself, I'm associateprofessor, Horticulture in the College of Agricultureat the University of Saskatchewan, and George isprofessor of Mechanical Engineering in the College ofEngineering.

Q Thank you.A The energy that's

release from the compressor station is one that hasgiven us impulse here in Saskatchewan, primarilybecause greenhouse production on a year-around basis isinfluenced by the cost of the energy to heat it, andour group has looked at various sources of waste heatand there are basically two main types. There's thetype that you must use a heat exchanger in order to getit into a useful form; and the other possibility of aheat source that could be used directly without themore expensive system of adapting it for use.

In our work, after someconsideration, we have chosen to work initially with theexhaust gases from gas turbines in order to see how theywill adapt them selves for the growth of plants under ourconditions. At this point I'd like to show you someslides in relation to our project in Saskatoon.

Our project is located onland that we've been given the use of by theSaskatchewan Power Corporation just east of Saskatoon


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at this station we have made very little modificationin order to make this process useful. You can see onthe left-hand side of the slide a vertical stack, andinto this has been welded a horizontal stack that goesout, down the side of the building.

Now the gases that we receivefrom this stack are in the neighborhood of about 800degrees Fahrenheit we take these across this pipe and Ishow this as an early stage of development which is theplenum or mixing chamber from which in the final stagesis used to distribute the heat to the greenhouse.That's just a picture of the greenhouse in the earlystages of production. It is a fairly cheap, economicalunit to construct at present-day costs.

In one section -- there'sthree sections to our greenhouse -- in one of them isa conventional system for which we pay for the heat.In the other two sections we get our source of heat,and I must say also of carbon dioxide, which isanother waste product in exhaust gases, which is goodfor plant growth, we get these both together fromthis turbine and from the mixing chamber up into thedistribution ducts and out to the variouscompartments.

The overall benefit from thecarbon dioxide that we receive here cannot beunderestimated for more northerly conditions. Ourindications are that the carbon dioxide will help offsetthe low light conditions, the low light short days ofwinter, and at this point we have no artificial light in


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the greenhouse, at Saskatoon, but have grown plantsessentially through the wintertime under normal lightconditions.

O.K., here's a picture of ourhouse under winter conditions. It has stood theweather conditions quite nicely, When we started to usethe exhaust gases, essentially directly we ran into amajor problem I'd like to make you aware of, in thatthere are nitrogen oxides in the exhaust gases thatwill burn the plants. This is not to illustrate plantgrowth under dark days o winter, but rather the burntleaves that result if you do not incorporate a filterin the system.

After we developed the properfilter we were able to go ahead and produce plantsquite acceptably, and you note that we are growing herein ordinary kitchen waste plastic bags full of sawdust,which are supplemented with nutrients on a regularbasis; but these plants grew quite satisfactorily. Youcan see they grew up to the 8-foot bar, which is thathorizontal bar at the top of the benches, I put apicture of George in here to show you that we're notfooling around with angle shots, to give you some sortof a fallacy of the kind of growth. I might point outthat the carbon dioxide gave us a bit of a jack-in-the-beanstalk story in that we experienced growth rates ofup to an inch and a half a day, where we were in thewaste heat sections, where we were getting less thanhalf an inch or o in the check section.

The waste heat sections


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produced more fruit and our indications are at thispoint, based on research in Michigan State, that fruitfrom CO2 enriched environments have a higher Vitamin Ccontent; but we have not tried to verify this under ourconditions.

Now these fruit ripened quitenicely. I put this in just to sum up what we weregrowing on raised beds, each plant watered individuallyin sawdust, clusters of ripe fruit, and they producedvery high-quality produce that have been part of amarketing experiment in Saskatoon, and we have beenable to get a price differential, a favorable pricedifferential over the Florida imports on the left.

We have not -- our 1/16th ofan acre structure will not allow us to saturate themarket to know their full potential, but we do havepreference. The people are buying ours at least two toone over the imports.

We have experimentedprimarily with tomatoes at this point, but this lastslide that we have shows a series of lettuce plantsthat have given us extremely good results. The ones onthe right have been treated with 4, 000 parts permillion carbon dioxide; the ones on the left are thecarbon dioxide at from our check houses at about 600parts per million. The lettuce on the right-hand sideof the right flat gave us approaching a 300% increasein yield over the corresponding check one. The lettuceon the left-hand side of that right-hand flat gave ussomething like 175% increase in yield over the check


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treatment. So that we do have at this paint experiencewith two crops that have responded quite favorably toour waste heat system.

I'd like to finish the slideshere now and turn it over to George Green to make someconclusionary comments.

(WITNESS ASIDE)GEORGE H GREEN sworn:THE WITNESS: The idea

that we have presented here must be thought of asbeing allowed to expand throughout the rest of theworld. In our northern climes, our problems ofvegetable and food production in general is inhibitedby the cold climate. Here we have a scheme that canbe used in Russia, Norway, Sweden, all the northernclimates, and is one basically of conservation. Ithink in the summing up, this is what I would like tomention to you.

Conservation will be one ofthe essential factors in minimizing any damage, closeto now, or in the far-distant future of all our usefulresources. In these gas compressor stations the gasthat is wasted is high-quality, that is it's of hightemperature and very clean, In Saskatchewan at thepresent time there are 300, 000 horsepower. This isenough to heat the City of Saskatoon throughout the


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entire winter. It's thrown away into the atmosphere.These stations which are

remotely situated are suitable for the production ofvegetables, and we think this could be extended intothe north and to all northern climes.

We think that this also, inaddition, this will arouse interest in the north andimprove local employment and social conditions. Thisreport is not meant to he complete, and thus we wouldbe pleased to discuss the potential of our research inmore detail with the members of the Inquiry AppraisalTeam.

I must say that this is onecase where the proof of the pudding is in the eating,and I'd like to present the Commissioner with one ofour products. It may be used for eating; it may beused as throwing at counsel who misbehave, but not tobe considered a bribery.

THE COMMISSIONER: I don'tthink I should take a bite out of this in the sight ofall of you because I think it has to be marked as anexhibit.

(LAUGHTER)and then sent along with my report to the PrimeMinister.

I want to thank both you, Dr.Maginnes , and your colleague, for this most interestingpresentation. I think that I can assure you that theInquiry Appraisal Team, which I might add for the benefitof those present, is a group of public servant seconded to


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the Inquiry by the Government of Canada, and these publicservants are from the Department of Indian Affairs &Northern Development, the Department of the Environment,the Department of Energy, and the Governments of theNorthwest Territories and the Yukon. The team consists aswell of specialists in various disciplines from theuniversities and from private industry that are in theemploy of the Inquiry. Dr. Fyles, who heads the InquiryAppraisal Team, and Dr. Morgan, who is another member ofthe team, visited the Soviet Union in September last yearand they said that there, use was being made apparently ina limited way of the excess energy at gas -- at compressorstations, and it's a matter that I can assure you Dr.Fyles will be taking up with both of you, and I think itlikely we'll ask both of you to come to Yellowknife todiscuss the matter at greater length.

Mr. Goudge, Commissioncounsel, is here -- yes, he's here, I see him -- andhe'll be speaking to you before the evening is out, ifyou wouldn't mind remaining, and I think I can also saythat -- I think I will say -- that I would like both ofthe pipeline companies to consider this and to let mehave their views on it in due course because I wouldlike them to let the Inquiry know whether they feel itis a proposal that they would be prepared to support.

But we have to give them anopportunity to consider it. So thank you both again.

(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner,

let us return to our list, and deal with No. 8 on the


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list, is Mrs. Maisie Shiell, and Mrs. Shiell is fromRegina. She has asked me to file her brief with you,

Mr. Commissioner, and shewon't present it personally but she would like herplace to be taken on our list tonight with -- by Mr.Frank Tompkins, who is with the Missinnippi Committeelocated in the Churchill River Basin in Saskatchewan atSandy Bay. So I would call upon Frank Tompkins topresent the brief of that committee. I file the briefof Maisie Shiell.(SUBMISSION OF MRS. M. SHIELL MARKED EXHIBIT C-393)

FRANK TOMPKINS sworn:THE WITNESS: Mr. Commissioner,

I'm with the Association of Metis and Nonstatus Indiansof Saskatchewan and we decided that we would not botherpresenting a brief at this Inquiry. We felt that theFederal Government is well aware of our feelings, havingreceived numerous reports and submissions from ourorganization expressing our views on many occasion;.

We did instead circulate somepamphlets among the people present, and I believe thatthese pamphlets express our feelings quite adequately,and I think they're quite to the point.

I received a phone call todayfrom the residents of Sandy Bay, requesting that I readthis submission on their behalf. They expressed regretthat they could not be here and the phone call Ireceived was collect, so I guess that speaks for thereason that they can't be present.


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They did wonder as to howmuch money was probably being spent. on this Inquiry,and you know, they did express more regret that nonecould have been allotted for people with such greatconcern, as they could be expressing their concernshere themselves. The brief reads:

In Sandy Bay, people are familiar with theprocess of government enquiries into land usageof lands inhabited by native people. We, alongwith other people residing along the ChurchillRiver, formed the Missinnippi Committee whichwas charged with the responsibility of ensuringpublic input into the government decisions af-fecting the social and natural environment bydamming the Churchill River system. From thebeginning our committee was a sham. It wascreated and funded by the Saskatchewan Govern-ment in order to give the appearance of publicinput. into government decision making. Evenat its inception the government had ensured itsfailure. The finances were insufficient toprovide anything but a caricature of public in-put.

With travel costs as high as they arein the north, we were faced with decisions ofeither holding a few small public meetings orcarrying out research so that we could havesomething substantive to say at those meetings.We did not have the financial resources to doboth. Forced to penny-pinch in our on-going


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fight for adequate financial resources, wefound ourselves with insufficient funds topublish our final report. As a result, whileour committee existed, it could only give theappearance of meaningful public input into thegovernment decision making process.

So now you are conducting a public In-quiry into the impact of a pipeline on theMackenzie River Valley. Perhaps we should be-lieve that the Federal Government has more hon-orable intentions than those exhibited by theProvincial Government when it created our com-mittee. But we have reason to be skeptical.

Public opinion does not exist in a vac-uum. It is created. If this were not so, whythen would the oil companies be spending mil-lions of dollars to create the opinion that anenergy crisis looms on the horizon for Canadi-ans? Why would they be trying to create theopinion that only by allowing them to make exor-bitant profits will they be able to discover theoil necessary to solve the oil crisis? Whywould they be trying to create the opinion thata Mackenzie Valley Pipeline is necessary totransport oil that will solve this crisis re-gardless of the costs to the inhabitants of theMackenzie Valley? They do it in order to createpublic opinion favorable to the pipeline.

But do the Dene people have the re-sources to counteract this propaganda? Do they


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have the millions of dollars necessary to takethe message to the millions of T.V. viewers whowatch the Esso hockey commercials?No. They only have their homes and their land.Land that the oil companies would violate in asecond if they could get away with it.

And what role does your Inquiry play?Does it bring the Dene message to the rest ofCanada? You have heard their message, Theland is their land and it is not for sale. Doyou propagate their position? Do you explainwhy it is essential to their economic, socialand cultural existence to preserve their land?No. You collect the public opinion that hasbeen created by the oil companies. You col-lect the opinions that say the native peoples'land rights can be violated. By your very ex-istence you allow the Dene peoples' ownershipof their land to be called into public ques-tion.

Does the Canadian Government formulatepolicy after sending Inquiries into NorthernCanada to gather public opinion on the rights ofownership of the City of Toronto? That land be-longs to Indians. It was stolen from them. Wasthis theft ever investigated? Were the armedrobbers brought to face justice for theircrimes? Half of Edmonton is Indian land basedon signed treaties with the Government of Can-ada. Is there a public Inquiry into its present


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occupancy and usage?The Dene people closed the doors to

public Inquiry with their Declaration:'The land is not for sale,'

We support their unalienable rights to their ownland,"

Thank you.(SUBMISSION OF PEOPLE OF SANDY BAY, SASKATCHEWAN - F.TOMPKINS MARKED EXHIBIT C-394)

(WITNESS ASIDE)MR. WADDELL: Mr. Commissioner --THE COMMISSIONER: Excuse me,

I might just make one comment on Mr. Tompkins' brief.The question was asked, "How much is the Inquirycosting?"

The Inquiry has provided tothe public a detailed account of the' cost of theInquiry so far, the expenditures that have been made,because of course the money comes from the Treasury ofCanada and the public is entitled to know where themoney has gone. There is a detailed statement thatMiss Crosby, who is the Inquiry's information officer,can make available to any of you who are interested init.

Mr. Tompkins also, speakingon behalf of those who had prepared the brief,suggested that money was not being made available bythe Inquiry to people who didn't live in these majorcentres of Southern Canada, but who wish to come hereand speak to the Inquiry. Well, that's true. In


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Northern Canada where we are -- in Northern Canada weare taking the Inquiry to each and every community. Wehave already been to virtually all of the communitiesin Northern Canada likely to be affected by thepipeline and the corridor, so that we have taken theInquiry to the homes of the people who live up thereand so it has not been necessary in the north toprovide funds for people to come to Yellowknife totestify because that is people who live in the north,because we've been to their own communities to allowthem to give evidencein their own language and in their own way, andin surroundings that are congenial and familiar tothem.

We felt that in coming to thesemajor centres in Southern Canada we could not, and wehave not, provided funds to persons and organizations whocannot afford to come to these centres to give evidence.I take full responsibility for that. This is animperfect world and there are limits to what you can doin the pursuit of perfect justice to everyone. Soforgive me for just making those two brief comments onthe views expressed by Mr. Tompkins.

Carry on, Mr. Waddell.MR. WADDELL: Yes sir. Mr.

Commissioner, you see that No. 12 on our list ofspeakers is Robert White, Now Mr. White wrote to you onJanuary 12, 1976, and then he wrote to you again onApril 21, 1976, updating his previous letter. He isapparently a researcher for Indian Affairs and had been


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working with agricultural matters and soil matter inthe fort Simpson-Fort Liard area. He says that he wasat the hearing at Fort Simpson, your hearings there,and was prompted to make a statement. He wanted tomake a brief here tonight but he wrote me another noteand said that he had gone up to do some more research,this time up in the Yukon. So he would like me to filethis brief and I would like to do that, sir.(SUBMISSION BY R, WHITE MARKED EXHIBIT C-395)

MR. WADDELL: I'm going tocall upon Mr. Colin Alexander to speak next, and thenI'm going to call the representatives of Miller HighSchool. I apologize for keeping them waiting; and thenI'm going to call upon Mr. George Ledingham.

So I'll call upon Mr. ColinAlexander of Saskatoon and Yellowknife.

COLIN ALEXANDER sworn:THE WITNESS: Good evening.

My position is that I have been a resident of theNorthwest Territories for approximately 15 years,divided between Frobisher Bay and Eastern Arctic andYellowknife. I am the publisher and owner of theYellowknife newspaper, "News of the North", and amtaking a sabbatical year at Saskatoon.

I brought enough notes withme so that I could talk as long as this land lasts,however, Mr. Waddell tells me I am to restrict myselfto 15 minutes.


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There appear to be very, verymany misconceptions and myths about development inCanada's north, and one of the great problems is thateven if we -- if we were to stop development completelythere is the problem of what people are supposed to dowith their lives. It's all very well to say that thereshould be no economic development and that there shouldbe no pipelines and no mines. But for practicalpurposes, the ancient way of life of native people nolonger exists as it did 100 years ago.

There has been a tremendousrevolution in the way that the people live. Some of ithas been extremely good, and some of it has beenextremely harmful, Ideally I would hope that yourInquiry, sir, would succeed in identifying many ofthose good things which can be built upon, andidentifying many of those harmful things which havebeen happening, and which the experience of naturalresource developments elsewhere, such as in Alaska, theHigh Arctic, Greenland, Pine Point, maybe could becorrected, so that we can learn and benefit from goodexperiences and avoid repetition of bad experiences.

One of the good developmentswhich I think should be pointed out and which a lot ofpeople don't recognize, for instance, is the phenomenaimprovement in health care that has accompanieddevelopment in Northern Canada, In the traditional wayof life, approximately 500 babies out of each l,00(live births ended in death. We have now improved thesituation where some 50 out of 1,000 live births do not


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survive.There are, the problem that

we face, I believe, is that we would like to have -- wewould like to create and maintain a society where thereis opportunity for Canadians of any racial backgroundto achieve self-sufficiency and to live with dignityand self-respect. Frankly, there are many parts ofNorthern Canada where that situation does not nowexist, and where the situation is very, very serious.There is powerful alcoholism, there is frequent --there is frequently expanding incidents of crime, ofmurder, incest, breaking and entering, property damagewhich appears to be the manifestation of anger andfrustration by largely native people who have lost asense of meaning in their lives.

In the ancient way of lifethey achieved economic self-sufficiency, they had to goout and build their own houses, find their own food,and do everything which was necessary to maintain theirfamilies. With the advent of government into NorthernCanada, there appeared to be a need in conformity withsuch well-intentioned manifestos as the United NationsDeclaration of Human Rights to raise the standard ofliving to a much higher level by our standards, thanprevailed before the advent of large amount ofgovernment services in the north.

This resulted inconstruction! of houses, for instance, in very, verylarge numbers for native people. Unfortunately, itinvolved mass programs which brought housing from


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Southern Canada, usually in prefabricated form, oftenthey were erected by southern contractors so that therewas a supply of material things for native people whichappear to improve their material standard of living,but in fact struck at the roots of self-sufficiency,according to their native lifestyle, one of therequirements of which -- one of the normal conditionsof which was the construction and maintenance of theirown housing.

We are not alone in Canada inrecognizing that there needed to be a substantialimprovement in the material standard of living of ournative people. The Danish Government has found thesame experience in Greenland, and last fall I visited acommunity on the east coast of Greenland calledAngmassalik, where there is a lot of similarity withthe situation, say in Snowdrift or Lac La Martre, wherethere is extremely limited prospects for people to maketheir own living according to a standard of livingwhich we consider to be normal and decent.

One of the unfortunateresult.-. in Angmassalik, as it is in Lac La Martre orSnowdrift,. is that we have had to put in not justhousing but also immense amounts of Southern Canadiantaxpayers' money in the form of welfare and relief.

In many of the natural resourcedevelopments which have hitherto taken place in NorthCanada, such as the Pine Point Mine, the two mines inYellowknife, there has not been any overall plan toinvolve the native people in economic development so that


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they could participate in the wage economy with anythingremotely resembling equality of opportunity. I believethat it is completely unrealistic to think either interms of stopping the clock or still worse, to put theclock back. There are tremendous benefits in the form ofinfrastructure now in place in Northern Canada, wherebywith modification, albeit very, very substantialmodification, there is the prospect for native people tobecome equal, and equal Canadians with equalopportunities.

I believe that the future fornative people in Northern Canada ought to lie in suchareas that they would have the prospect of beingequipped through education, training, self-confidence,so that native people can aspire to such positions asCommissioner of the Northwest Territories, judges onthe bench, pilots for Pacific Western, There is nolonger a living to be made off the land which manypeople are interested in trying to achieve on a long-term basis. The fact is that however hard people work,with very, very few exceptions, such as possibly amongthe people of Sachs Harbour, no longer is it possibleto achieve a standard of living -- to achieve meat,money, housing, by way of -- to achieve self-sufficiency from hunting and trapping. I believe thatthere is very, very substantial evidence both inSouthern Canada and in the north that what nativepeople really want, is to be equipped with thetraining, education, and above all, self-confidence sothat they can aspire to the highest positions in our


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society.I do not believe that

native people are all against development as such onprinciple. I believe that they are against -- strongly againstthe kind of development which shunts them aside so atthey become something along the lines of what KarlMarx described in the 19th century as an industrialreserve army, surplus to the requirements of society-- surplus to the requirements of labor, of the laborforce. That we have seen in Southern Canada and thatwe have the opportunity to avoid in Northern Canada,if your Inquiry, sir, and those people who areinvolved in the decision-making processes and puttingup the framework of society as it might operate inthe future can correct many of the mistakes whichhave been made in the past.

I regret -- I am delighted,sir, that you have said so often and clearly that youconsider your terms of reference to embrace the entirefuture of the north. There is one area in which I greatthat you have not been saying that you view your mandateto cover, and that is the political development thenorth. I believe that the future of Northern nada andits people lies with the -- lies as much as anythingelse, with the development of democratic institutions aswe know them in the provinces, in the rut of developinga provincial style government in northern Canada. Ibelieve that we are misplacing our values, and ourjudgment in saying that -- in thinking at Native


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Brotherhoods are the institutions which present all thepeople of Northern Canada, I believe at we should belooking more properly at the Council the NorthwestTerritories, the legislative body which represents theentire country, which incidentally should be asked,"What's going to happen with land ownership as such?"

Land ownership does notprovide self-sufficiency unless it is accompanied bycapital investment, by employment opportunities, andthe building of a society where there is purpose tolife, which is now so sadly lacking among manycommunities in the north.

I have one more comment tomake and then I'm closing off because --

THE COMMISSIONER: Order,please, ladies and gentlemen, I think that we owe it toeach other to see what we can learn from each other,and I'm anxious to allow Mr. Alexander to complete hispresentation. Go ahead, sir.

A If you look at thesituation in Arctic Bay and Resolute Bay where there isvery, very substantial natural resource development nowtaking place, in Arctic Bay there has been for someconsiderable length of time a labor force going to workfor Pan-Arctic on the basis of working 20 days andhaving ten days off, as there has also -- and somelabor for Pan-Arctic has also been coming from PondInlet, Resolute Bay, and Grise Fiord, I believe, butthere are some communities in Northern Canada wherethere is, for practical purposes, near full employment


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and I have the feeling from visiting those communitiesthat providing natural -- providing the environment isprotected, providing the old way of life is stillavailable, that the benefits of controlled naturalresource development can be extremely advantageous tothe lifestyle of people. It is not realistic to thinkin terms of the Southern Canadian taxpayer, supportingnative people in Northern Canada in perpetuity; norindeed do the majority of native people like livinglike that. They require training, education toparticipate in the opportunities which are opening up.We are doing things -- we are doing a lot of thingsextremely well in some of the High Arctic communities,It is extremely unfortunate that there was not moreinvolvement of native people in such projects as thePine Point Mine.

There has to be an overallcomprehensive approach to welfare, housing, politicaldevelopment, economic development in order to do awaywith a society where the native people are being castaside. It is just not acceptable, for instance, it isjust not acceptable that native people should come outof the educational system without the equipment toparticipate in the wage economy with equal opportunity.It is not realistic to think that people well-educatedcan live off the land. We have people in the middle.I hope that we are now somewhere around a low point,but unless there is parallel development of peoplealong with some form of economic development, yes, weare looking at blowing up pipelines, civil war, all


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those kind of things which native people with theirfrustration are threatening. They have grievances,really serious grievances, which we have to acknowledgeand do something about. But no growth, no jobs, nodevelopment is no way to solve those problems.

I could talk, as I said, forages, but I won't.

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you,Mr. Alexander.


Commissioner I call upon the representatives from theMiller High School, f they could come up, please; andafter that I'll call on Joe Roberts, and then GeorgeLedingham.

Mr. Berger, this is SusanDusel, and Laura Herperger, and Elizabeth Schnurr, Ibelieve it is pronounced, and they can tell you whichis which.

MISS SUSAN DUSELLMISS LAURA HERPERGERMISS ELIZABETH SCHNURR swornWITNESS DUSEL: Mr. Justice

Berger, I'd like to say that Elizabeth Schnurr, LauraHerperger and myself are all Grade 12 students inMiller High School, and we have worked together toprepare this brief, and we are representing the 1,600students at Miller High School here.


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Mr. Justice Berger, the pastfew years have produced a great deal of discussionregarding northern development. Arguments have beeninitiated and printed literature has been circulatedendlessly. Corporations have poured millions ofdollars into advertising, and the native peoples havebegun to organize themselves to make a sincere effortto establish their values.

Commissions such as this havebeen set up to delve into the legality of certainproposals, and I believe along the way have been forcedto look into the morality as well. I am not here,however, to review any of these recent events, or quoteany dubious statistics.

I am here as a representativeof my age group and a representative of MillerComprehensive High School, to say that we are concernedand to acknowledge the fact that whatever the decisionin regards to development of the north, it is going tohave far-reaching implications.

The repercussions will bein a way, the very foundation of the society of mygeneration and my children's generation. In no waycan I stress the importance that this decision willhave on Canada in the coming decades. It will be amajor force determining the type of nationalCharacter that we will exemplify. We must bear inmind that not only will we be judged by othercountries, for our actions, but more importantly mygeneration will have to look back and without


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hesitation be able to justify and sincerely believein the measures we have taken.

We must ask just what type ofnational image should we as Canadians be striving for?It is always easier to visualize in our minds acountry's character if we think in terms of humanbeings. Canada is like a young girl who is brushedbriefly with the iniquities and wickedness of life.Much of these so-called worldly experiences have beenpromoted. by her friend, America, who has tasted ofall the lewdness and corruption in city life, andselfishly wishes Canada to join her.

The younger girl examiningherself sees her innocence and her pureness on theone hand, and yet on the other she sees herselffollowing the beguiling America to sophistication,wealth, and excitement. This is the dilemma facingus. Canada has to look at herself at this point anddetermine what type of country she wishes to developinto. A close scrutiny of her attitudes is necessaryto determine the type of policies she will follow.If she should choose policies which disrespect therights of minority groups in Canada, such as the DeneIndians and the Inuit people, the direct result is adenial of justice, or to put the question anotherway, what do you call it when the policymakers of anation blatantly disregard the needs of her ownpeople? What word is used to describe a country thatheedlessly neglects her responsibility to her peopleand forces them into the prostitution of their


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culture, values and rightful heritage?We say this is injustice.

The white man has often been caught in this duplicity.We only have to look back at the provisions we havemade to other ethnic groups in our past. The French inQuebec, for example, have been awarded special statusat a time when they were in a minority situation. Ifthe native people have always been treated as prizedanimals in a zoo, this is why it is necessary toexamine our motives. Any action taken at this stage isirreversible.

The proposed Mackenzie ValleyPipeline has been likened to the building of theCanadian Pacific Railway at the time of Confederation,In John A. MacDonald's time the problem of how to keepCanada together; while today the question is how toconsolidate our present nationhood economically. Inparenthesis we only have to look back in retrospect ofthe dire consequences that the railway has posed to oursocial and political fabric. Do we want to repeat thesame mistakes? After all, our present-day economy wasengineered within a value system directed in a spiralof getting and spending, and resulting in what someeconomists call our garbage culture.

Today those values areundoubtedly in question. Will the building of thepipeline not result in the imposition of this garbageculture on our native population? The very nature ofour social system implies that economic growth is anessential and integral part of a country's development,


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and indeed it is. Yet it has been set so high on ourscale of priorities that it tends to take on a god-likeimage and clouds out the values that have more subtle,yet nonetheless important functions.

When was the last time thatwe thought of people when natural resources werementioned? The human resource, there is nothing sobasic or so simple, yet this is a matter that is givenonly fleeting thought and little concern.

Is it not ironic that we talkof building a pipeline without first givingconsideration to the present Dene and Inuit land claimsnow before the Cabinet? We have slowly over the yearschanged our national identity from one of hewers ofwood and drawers of water to that of a highlyindustrialized society. To accomplish this, we havehad to draw heavily on our non-renewable resources.This drawing usually results in what is termed economicdevelopment of the region in question. However, realdevelopment which should take into considerationcultural and human values, is often neglected. Wehave, as you know, advanced ourselves to the stagewhere only our north remains virgin.

We are, according to agreat many scientists and geologists, in a stagereferred to as the 11th hour, Soon a revolution oflifestyles and a reevaluation of our priorities willbe facing us. Energy-producing nonrenewableresources will soon be depleted. There will benothing with which to oil the wheels and gears of our


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industrial society. After all, this is whatprogenitors of the status quo are telling us; shouldwe believe them? Why is it so essential to furtherpropagate this garbage culture? Must we degenerateto that type of reservation system depicted in "BraveNew World"?If we are to have a brave new world, Mr. JusticeBerger, let us at least look for alternatives in ournatural God-given gifts.

We have the means to harnessthe wind and the sun and the tide and even the riversof our dying earth. For God's sake, let us not rapeour earth any longer.

The Mackenzie Valley Pipelineis no more than a phallic symbol of the white man'sunconscious desire to destroy himself. What conclusionsthen are we to draw from all of this? Perhaps that itis only man's characteristic fear of change then whichprods us to exploit our last remaining resources, nomatter what the cost. Can we solely, because of ourimpulsiveness and rashness, allow ourselves to in jumpfrom the frying pan into the fire? Are we so blind thatwe cannot judge in perspective the matter before us?Are we furthering true development of Canada's characterby making human sacrifices of her people Economicdevelopment for the sake of entrepreneurs in itself isundesirable, inasmuch as development for profit-orientated selfish motives is disastrous.

Mr. Justice Berger, it is notwhat we do with regards to the Canadian north, it is


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how we do it. If our attitude toward progress ischannelled in the right direction, and we respect theculture of the Dene Indian, and respect the Indian landclaims, then and only then will our sense ofdevelopment be put into the right perspective.

Then we can be assured thatour economic advancement is not threaded with racialprejudice and ignorance but indeed exemplifies animage, we as Canadians can be proud of.

Mr. Justice Berger, on behalfof youth today and tomorrow, I ask for a seriousreevaluation of priorities, and I plead for a decisionin this matter which will allow future Canadians tolook back at their country's history with a clearconscience and with pride.

In this respect we beg younot to pursue the building of the Mackenzie ValleyPipeline without consultation and in agreement with theInuit and Dene people.(SUBMISSION OF MILLER COMPREHENSIVE HIGH SCHOOL MISS S.DUSEL MARKED EXHIBIT C-396)


Commissioner I call next upon Mr. Joe Roberts, who isrepresenting the Saskatchewan Waffle.

JOE ROBERTS sworn:THE WITNESS: My name is Joe

Roberts and I'm speaking on behalf of the SaskatchewanWaffle Movement.


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This presentation from theSaskatchewan Waffle Movement opposes the proposedconstruction of an energy corridor along theMackenzie Valley, at the present stage of history,and supports the broad idea that the first priorityshould be satisfaction of the rights and claims ofthe native people of the north. In our judgment,the conflict over the Mackenzie Valley Pipelineillustrates sharply three essential features of 20thcentury Canada:1. We are victims of imperialist exploitation. Thestruggle against the pipeline is a struggle againstimperialism similar to all such conflicts throughoutthe world. Those who oppose that imperialism must jointogether to overcome the few powerful ones who stand tobenefit from it.

The oil and gas industry isone of the most striking instances of imperialistdomination in Canada, especially significant because ofthe extensive importance of fuel and power throughoutthe total economy.2. We are divided in Canada according to class, TheMackenzie Valley Pipeline issue is a ruling classventure that will further exploit the mass of thepeople on behalf of profits for the rich. The nativepeople of the north are the pin-point, but by no meansthe sole victims of that exploitation.3. Canadian state is not neutral nor is its businessconducted according to abstract public interest. Withbeing all the power it commands, the state is used


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strictly in the interests of the owning class, and thisfact is evident in the Mackenzie Valley Pipelinespeculations.

Mr. Justice Berger, we havesome 20 pages of comment on an undertaking todemonstrate the points that we've made. It's late andI won't read all of that. I recommend it to you, but Ialso want to point out that we intend to take what wehave to say here to the people of Saskatchewan, becausewe hope that your message and the message of thisInquiry goes beyond this room tonight.

I want to correct one of thepoints that we made in the brief because today'sinformation makes us wrong by one day. We pointed outunder our discussion of imperialism the following:

"Just how immediately and directly appropriateis this principle,"

that is the principle that the north would be developedaccording to criteria of profit,

"Just how immediately and directly appropriateis this principle will be evident tomorrow,"

that is, it is evident already today,"when Cabinet is expected to announce that regu-lations are planned for northern oil and gasmarketing. Last Thursday the 'Toronto Globe &Mail' reported a Cabinet plan to gain Canadiancontrol over 12 trillion cubic feet of gas whichAmerican-controlled companies have set aside inthe Mackenzie Delta for first call by theirCalifornia customers, regardless of Canadian


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need,"Even if the present

projection of Canadian energy shortage in the early1980s is as false as the past projections have been, itis stark evidence of the imperialist character of theforces promoting the Mackenzie Valley speculation thatthey are prepared to service the more profitableAmerican consumer market as a first priority, possiblyat the cost of a Canadian shortage.

We have some things to sayabout labor in the north, and the way in whichsouthern labor, organized labor will be set againstunorganized and less skilled -- that is skilled forthe purposes of southern controlled development, lessskilled northern labor, and we think that this is amechanism and will have the effect of promotingintra-class conflict

We think also that one ofthe class consequences of this pipeline will be aperversion of budget priorities, that because of theimpact on the international capital market, that oneof the first consequences will be a reduction in whatare called "unproductive or unnecessary stateexpenditures", such things as health, as bettereducation, adequate housing, these kinds of thingswill be among the first costs in a capital spendingpriority which the Mackenzie Valley Pipeline and theJames Bay project and Syncrude and things like thatrepresent.

This, we're suggesting, has a


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primary impact on the working class in Canada, becausethey are the primary users of those so-calledunproductive state expenditures.

We also think that it willhave ,a large impact on inflation. We know that oiland gas expenditures constitute something like a thirdor are responsible for about a third of the currentinflation, and we have every reason to believe thatjacking up of prices for crude oil, which is a thenecessary prerequisite for the development of thenorth, will add to that inflation.

Now, I'd like to present thelatter part of our brief, which deals primarily withthe state. It is an important illusion of our system,we believe, that these and other projects proposed andexecuted according to government policy must be in thepublic interest, since government is responsiblethrough quadrennial elections to the public at large,and ultimately stands as a dispassionate arbitratorover the conflicting views, beliefs and interests ofindividuals and groups. We reject that myth, and theMackenzie Valley Pipeline plan, since the Syncrude boomdoggie, shows how thoroughly the entire state ismanaged in the interest of the owning class and at theexpense of any broader notion of the people.

Successive governments, sinceat least the mid-'50s have sought to increase sales ofcrude oil and natural gas to the United States.Governments in Canada are the same as those throughoutthe capitalist world in developing intimate collegial


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relations with the oil monopoly. The state serves theindustry in a multitude of ways, including throughdiplomacy, negotiation and tariff arrangements withother states, and the facilitation of foreign sales.In the Canadian context, the merger of governmentservice and industry purpose has been expressed.

Since the time of theDiefenbaker government, and the first so-calledNational Oil policy, the state has subordinated itselfto imperialist oil strategy relying heavily on industrypersonnel, information, and judgment. This merger ofclass interests affects most branches of the state; thelegislative, executive, civil service, military andprovince.

Private enterprise by itselfis unwilling to develop even the far more accessible tarsands, regardless of the promises made at the outset,public funds and governments always showed it a burdenof keeping risk low and profits high in such developmentprojects. Without active state involvement, businesswould not build any of the Mackenzie pipeline.

The present pipelinespeculation was hustled up as a result of the AlaskaNorth Slope Oil Rush in 1968 by industry representativesin Canada. The Federal Government was sold on the marketprospect for sales to the United States and itselfbusiness became a shill on behalf of the industry.

It is now commonly acceptedthat the Cabinet has made up its mind to have thepipeline and is pushing ahead with reassurances to the


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industry and international finance community.Take, for example, the recent

Beaufort Sea drilling decision on behalf of DomePetroleum or consider the following items that indicateare commitment to industry objectives.

First of all, a long historycontinental energy supply politics practised bysuccessive Canadian governments with their UScounterparts.

The character of the 1973Energy Policy for Canada report regarding the necessityof phasing in Delta fuel immediately. The originalterms of reference, the Mackenzie Valley PipelineInquiry.

They all seek to assure alaundered and politically legitimate project beingproposed by the two principal applicants. Once formalhearings began, Acting Prime Minister Mitchell Sharpe,carefully reassured business in March 1975 that Ottawadid not feel bound to treat the Inquiry reportdecisively in its decision making timetable.

Again, investment by U.S. gaspipeline companies such as Teneco in both Delta andArctic exploration processes in exchange forcontractual supply guarantees, Now these firms arescrewing up the pressure for a quick and satisfactorysolution to the pipeline debate by withholding furtherexploration funds from Pan-Arctic and others. Again,negotiation and initialling of the Pipeline SecurityTreaty with the United States in January 1976.


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Finally, the most recent April, Self-Reliance Policypronouncement which links increased prices toexploitation of northern reserves.

The Prime Minister has justnow vowed to proceed with that price rise and, ofcourse, has already done that in consort with theprovinces that most loyally reflect oil industry pricepolicy. Now the panic timing technique is being usedon this industry and on the public generally.

Provincial and FederalGovernments that serve the industry so faithfully arecarefully orchestrating an atmosphere of urgency tomake the Project appear legitimate. We ought to knowfrom the recent Syncrude lesson how crisis and thespeed-up tactic are used to stampede decisionsfavorable to the industry, from governments entrustedwith responsibility for public interest.

Politically, the parties, thecivil service and the provincial subordinates within theCanadian state apparatus must make the already-madedecision appear to be the result of careful, fair,representative procedure. This, we already see through.

The taxes of working peoplewill be spent on this project as a higher priority thandecent, cheap housing, more and better education, andreduced food prices. The Waffle believes it isimportant for such working people to know the politicaltechnique of using a Commission of Inquiry is designedto divert attention from the actual decision-makingprocess and to give legitimacy to myths of public


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responsibility and democracy.The intention, in establishing

the present Commission, appears to have been toconcentrate the soft opposition: moral, religious,cultural, environmental and fringe opinion. This createsthe illusion that everyone has an opportunity to speakand therefore some power. Meanwhile, the hard,economically significant decisions will be concentratedfirst in the N.E,B., a proven friend of the industry andof the project, and then in Cabinet.

While understanding thislarger ruling class strategy, we must also recognizethat in particular circumstances, such as the present,the form provided by the Inquiry is an important onefor peoples' organizations and for those who are stillunorganized to voice their opposition, fears, andfrustrations about an imperialist, class-basedinjustice being imposed upon them. Through thehistorical interaction of opposites, that is, politicalmanipulation versus the genuine voices of protest, theresolve of native people will be strengthened.

We place ourselves amongthose who can recognize the imperialist and classpurposes at work in the Mackenzie Valley Pipelinespeculation, and we extend our support to northernpeoples and to all others who struggle against thatexploitation. Many Canadians are 100% cynical aboutthe entire proposed project and the decision-makingprocess itself. As a nation, we have lived through theGrand Trunk Scandal ,and the state give-away to create


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the CNR, the greatest of transportation stings, theCPR.

Finally, it was a mere 18years ago that the Liberal Government fell, in part asa result of its eagerness to jam down our throats thatinfamous American gas pipe, TransCanada Pipeline. Ifis Inquiry can reflect the fact that virtually allvoluntary groups and mass organizations of ordinarypeople have expressed themselves in opposition to thepipeline, it will be an important expression of classconsciousness.

Those who have favoured theproject are primarily those with a direct financialstake and they're governmental affiliates whose careersare intimately linked with great corporate projects.

The Waffle believes thepriorities are totally wrong in the northern scheme.We suspect that there is sufficient oil and gas fromproducing and shut-in sources, tar. sands, and heavyoil sources and from the deeper exploration ofconventionally accessible formations to meet Canada'sneeds right now. We agree that there is not enoughknown hydrocarbon energy available in Canada tomaintain world control of the international monopolyand our energy commitments to the United States, now orever. Our suspicions about oil and gas supply areheightened at his very moment by news that, first ofall, the N.E.B. has permitted a speed up in export ofgas to the Canadian-Montana Pipeline and secondly, thatAlberta is planning a world-scale chemical industry


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based on cheap reed stock from natural gas.In our view, governments are

trying to promote scarcity in conventional, availablesupplies in order to justify the opening of a northernreserve before other human problems are addressed. Wecannot believe the scarcity data upon which the MackenziePipeline is based. Too much available evidence suggestsa likely world glut in oil and gas with capacity beingshut-in at the same time governments are being induced tosubsidize new exploration frontiers.

The aim of industry andcompliant governments is to maintain a traditionalindustry strategy of multiple sources of supply as away to avoid vulnerability to possible monopolyadvantage by suppliers. Nations and companies areeager to diversify supply sources in order to optimizesecurity. So long as the same companies control thesources or at least the transportation, refining, andmarketing, there will be no competition resulting fromthis diversification that will benefit nationaleconomies.

If the Canadian state weregenuinely concerned about shortage of supply and yetwish to avoid abject subordination to the oil monopolywhile solving the human justice issues of the north, itmight explore state-to-state supply arrangements.

Reports suggest, for example,that oil reserves discovered on the east coast of-Chinacompare favorably with the Mid-East in quantities andquality. Look, let's be quite serious, I sat here for


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two hours beyond what you told me when I was going toperform. I've waited for you -- an exchange of wheatand potash for oil is reasonable prospect for futurepotent al shortage, once Canada has made a genuineattempt at self-sufficiency.

With a state-to-state tradingarrangement avoiding the middle-man mark-up, we mightrely on relatively less expensive fuel refined in ourown plants, during the period necessary for gradualdevelopment of our frontier reserves.

If the correct prioritieswere to be executed in the north, they would begin withthe proposition that it is not necessary to develop oiland gas reserves. The claims and rights of northernpeople, native people preeminently, must come beforeenergy speculation. Nor can it be sufficient for theruling, class simply to acknowledge that native peoplehave legitimate rights and then establish what it deemsto be a just price to settle for those rights. If theyare not dealt with justly, these claims will nevervanish; they rill continue to demand satisfaction,ultimately, in various forms of violence.

The Waffle supports theclaims of native people for more meaningful control oftheir own territory. We reject the lie that oil andgas shortage makes necessary exploitation of the north.The only emergency is that felt by the oil monopoly fortheir profits, for there has been a perceptible loss intheir long-established, free-wheeling power over worldresources.


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The crisis in Canada arisesfrom private misuse of existing resources. According:o what social reason does Alberta set out to squanderhydro-carbons on a world-scale petrochemical industry.hat inverted reasoning can be found to justify thecontinued export of oil and gas to the United States in; hart of this supposed scarcity. Any rearrangement ofpriorities is totally impossible so long as corporatepower is in the saddle. In order to meet the humanneeds, the monopoly power of energy control must betaken out of private hands. Only with a publiclycontrolled energy system can we begin to know whatCanada really has and what we really require.

This does not mean a mixedgovernment and private enterprise system, since thatwould only be a cover for the private industry. Anenergy and development policy for the public is stillneeded in Canada. The task of developing such a policyis too important to be left in the hands of theindustry and its state mandarins. It will not bepossible until profit is taken out of energy.

The Inquiry was originally amistake, Mr. Justice Berger. Those in power created itto divert attention while the real game went onelsewhere, but a ground swell of opposition toimperialism and support for native claims has builtaround the efforts of this Commission. There is anoutside possibility that the demands of people willhave to be honoured by the ruling class, The Commissioncan either betray that ground swell or it can help give


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it a mighty voice.(SUBMISSION BY SASKATCHEWAN WAFFLE MOVEMENT - J.ROBERTS - MARKED EXHIBIT C-399)


I should say for the record that I informally asked thepeople who are presenting briefs to stay within 15minutes so that we could hear from as many people aspossible; 15 people have done that.

THE COMMISSIONER: Yes, welllet's carry on.

MR. WADDELL: Fine, sir,We'll just have time for another brief. I don't thinkwe'll have time for more.

THE COMMISSIONER: Let's hearthe other brief.

MR. WADDELL: It's from Mr.George F. Ledingham, who is with the Department ofBiology, University of Regina. Mr. Ledingham?

G.F. LEDINGHAM sworn:THE WITNESS: Mr. Berger, I

have real pleasure in being here. My brief is signedas a private individual brief, but I believe I speakfor a rather large number, say, two thousandnaturalists. I was for fifteen years editor of theSaskatchewan Natural History magazine. I didn't havetime to check my brief with them, but I feel I havetheir opinion and I wanted to say several things. Iwas afraid they wouldn't be said tonight. Most of them


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have been, so I'm going to be very brief.One thing I do want to say and

this is the main reason I persisted and wanted to put myname in for a brief, and that is, that I have thegreatest respect for your integrity. Through the lastyear, I have come €o admire the good faith andconsideration with which you have conducted thisInquiry. . I hope you realize that the people ofCanada feel that very strongly. Tonight, if I hadwritten this tonight. I would have added a couple ofthings, including your patience and your good humour andof course, your endurance. I know it's after 12 and Ireally shouldn't say anything.

In my brief, I express thecynicism about the government. The other day, maybethis is something you haven't noticed, there was anarticle in our "Leader Post" May 10th, headed "Searchfor Oil, Gas, Long Arduous Journey". Now it looks likeit came straight from the oil corporations and it, tome, several explained why Mitchell Sharpe and othershadn't already declared the beginning of the pipeline.You see, I'm quite cynical. I thought they weren'tgoing to wait for the end of the and when they hadn'tmade a decision, I thought, well, it was because thereisn't enough gas. That's what this paragraph says.

"Regardless of who builds the;as pipeline, the economies of scale dictate that moreas needs to be found in the Mackenzie Basin and most fthe remaining oil and gas potential lies under theBeaufort Sea." Hence, this terrible decision-to drill


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in the Beaufort Sea, in spite of the lack of technologywould you like that? So just to give you the thingsthat I wanted to say.

First, I'll criticize, maybe wedon't have enough gas to build a pipeline anyway. So Iwould be against the pipeline, but even if there wereproof of immense quantities of gas, and even if it wereonly one area of the Arctic so that the transportationand the drilling of the gas and the oil just came outfrom a small area of the Arctic, so there'd be ratherlittle danger of damage, which is described well in 'OilUnder the Ice" by Dr. Pimlott and others. Even if therewas no danger to the environment and of course, I'm abiologist and I am interested in the environment but Iwon't go into that, I would say no pipeline until we havesettled the land claims of the people of the north andthat they have been informed and know of the hazards offurther development.

I feel that the peoples ofthe north should have the responsibility for the thingsthat happen in the north and they must be allowed tobalance he advantages and disadvantages of eachdevelopmental project.

I think I feel a bit that waybecause I'm a native of Saskatchewan, and a good thirdof my life was lived in that time when we didn'tcontrol our own resources. They were controlled fromOttawa until l930, and so we're in the same position.What happened to us is now happening in the Arctic. Ifeel or the people, no matter who is there. It's a


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colony situation and I think we should be in asituation beyond that.

I think of the -- just onesentence that I reflect something that hasn't beenmouthed in the same way tonight. If all wildlife weredestroyed in the Arctic and of course, the explorationpermits blanket the whole Arctic practically, both landand sea, so, you know, it's frightening when you thinkof the difficulties of the Arctic.

As a birdwatcher, I see thethousands of geese and swan and cranes that pass throughthis area each spring and fall and so I can kind ofenvisage the Arctic birdlife and also mammals and fish, swell. If all this was destroyed, life in the Arcticwould completely change. The result would be as serious:0 the independence and the culture of the peoples as theslaughter of the bison 100 years ago was to our plainsIndians. It seems to me kind of a similar situation. Ofcourse, we still live under that cloud of what we didbefore. We don't seem to be learning.

So, in the cynicism about theFederal Government, one thing that I remember even whenwas editor about 3 years ago, we had examples of thisambivalence in Judd Buchanan's Department of Indian AndNorthern Affairs and it seems to me that you can'tserve both and that he serves the development aspectsAnd he, you know, forgets about the Indians. I thinkhe people should come first. I feel that if they hadControl of their own affairs, if they controlled theirresources, we wouldn't be worrying so much about the


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Environment as we are now because their whole lifeDepends on protecting the environment. That's wherehey live. It's easy for us down here to decide we'lltake the resources but what then would be left. Ifthey ad charged, then they would weigh these thingscarefully. I kind of feel that our government is notecologically oriented in its thinking. It's kind ofimmediate resource extraction oriented. The short termeconomic things are the important things, rather thanthinking of the long term good.

So, to sum up, as abiologist, I'm concerned about the environmental impactof the pipelines moreover, as a Canadian, I'm concernedabout the sociological impact that the pipeline willhave on the peoples of the north. In addition, ofcourse, I have to be aware of the economic effects andI realize that this aspect of the problem is extremelycomplex. I hope that the possibility of short termeconomic benefits to southern Canada will not preventcareful consideration of how the pipeline will affectthe north and its peoples.

The pipeline as envisaged nowwill completely destroy resources and peoples of ourlast frontier. It's not worth the cost and I, as asouthern Canadian, rule against it now. Thank you.(NEWSPAPER ARTICLE "LEADER POST" MAY 18, 1976 MARKEDEXHIBIT C-397)(SUBMISSION BY G.F. LEDINGHAM MARKED EXHIBIT C-39)



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I've covered everyone that has indicated some time agothat they'd like to present a brief. I'd like to filecouple of other briefs with you. One is from T.M.Beveridge. Mr. Beveridge has left copies of his brief ifwe could file that. The other is from Thomas E. Keyes.Mr. Keyes has left a copy of his brief if we could filethat. The final one is from Joan Klein from Regina andshe has asked me to file this one-page brief with you.Sir, you've heard from seventeen people and there havebeen seven briefs filed.

THE COMMISSIONER: Thank you,Mr. Waddell. Do any of the-- Mr. Goudge?

MR. GOUDGE: Sir, the hour islate and you've heard a number of submissions and I cansay, fortunately, that none of the full-timeparticipants have indicated to me that they wish to sayanything and I trust, sir, that that means the eveningis concluded.

THE COMMISSIONER: Well, notquite. I think I said thank you, all of you who cametonight, especially those persons and organizationswhich took the time and trouble to give the Inquiry thebenefit of their views on this most important question.I think that it's been an interesting and worthwhileevening. It certainly has been from my point of viewand I hope it has been also from your point of view.

We have spent fourteen monthsin northern Canada, hearing evidence from the expertsand from the people, and we set aside one month totravel to southern Canada to hear what you have to say


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about all of this. That means that we felt we couldonly spend this one day in Regina, so I apologize tothose of you who didn't get an opportunity to presentyour views as fully as you might have wished, but thoseI'm afraid are the exigencies of travel and holdinghearings in this vast country.

Perhaps I might make thiscomment that I know Mr. Waddell told all of you to comeat eight o'clock to present your briefs. I think thatthat's the procedure he follows in each city that wevisit. That procedure certainly has my approvalbecause I think that you come here not just to presentyour own views, but to listen and to consider the viewsof others. I think that's the way the democraticprocess ought to work, that we should be prepared tolisten to and try to understand the views of oneanother. There is a tendency also in the organizationsto which we belong to hear the views of people that weare pretty sure in advance are going to agree with theviews we already cling to strongly and that makes usfeel good, but sometimes it's even better to go to agathering like this where diversity of views arepresented and where, I think, we do have theopportunity of learning from one another.

Let me say that we have foundin the hearings we have held in Vancouver, Edmonton,Calgary, and now Regina, that people, like Mr.Alexander, who spoke earlier, who have lived and workedin the forth, as teachers, as public servants, inbusiness, have taken the trouble, when we passed through


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their communities in southern Canada, to come out andgive us the benefit of their reflections on life in thenorth and we appreciate that. That has been for us anunexpected dividend to these southern hearings, and letme say as well that we appreciate the efforts of all ofyou and we appreciate the fact that in the exercise ofresponsible citizenship, you have decided that it isimportant that you express your views to this Inquiry.

So, thank you all very much.We will, as a nation, be seeking to do the right thing,and I can tell you that I have sought to learn from eachone of you and that the briefs that could not be readtonight are briefs that I will undertake to examine onthe plane to Winnipeg tomorrow morning. So think that Ishould call the gathering to an end, thank you again,and the Inquiry stands adjourned until 3 p.m. inWinnipeg tomorrow.(BRIEF OF REGINA COMMITTEE FOR WORLD DEVELOPMENT MARKEDEXHIBIT C-400)(SUBMISSION BY T.M. BEVERIDGE MARKED EXHIBIT C-40l(SUBMISSION BY T.E. KEYES MARKED EXHIBIT C-402)

(SUBMISSION OF MRS. J. KLEINMARKED EXHIBIT C-403)(PROCEEDINGS ADJOURNED TO MAY 20, 1976)


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