RADIO INTERVIEW – THE HISTORY OF JAZZ

Introduction

- Did you know that jazz was born in the United States? Or did you know that the drum set was

invented by the jazz musicians? Did you know that the words "cool" and "hip" were originally jazz

terms? Today I will be talking to the jazz expert Mr. Mangooso, who grew up in the city of Jazz,

New Orleans in America. Mr. Mangooso will take us through the history of jazz, from the 18th

century up until today, from Louis Armstrong to the visionary Dizzy Gillespie. It’s a great honour to

have you here Mr. Mangooso

- Thank you, sir, it is nice to be here, and be able to talk about what I am very passionate about

- We have divided this radio programme into 5 smaller podcasts. The first podcast will go back to the

source of jazz, which is when the African slaves entered America

- Obviously, jazz was inspired by these black Americans who worked in the fields

- Then in the second podcast we will have a conversation about the City of Jazz, New Orleans

- Oh, the beautiful city where I grew up actually

- Yes, it is a very beautiful city

- Indeed

- Then we will take a look at the legendary jazz musician Louis Armstrong and how he inspired

improvisation. Next stop is the swing era with Duke Ellington as a front figure. Further on we will

take a look at the fast jazz genre, called Bebop, with Dizzy Gillespie in the front. And finally, we will

take a look at how Cuban and Latin Americans influenced the music. It is going to be very

interesting, don’t you think Mr. Mangooso?

- Oh yes, and I am excited to elaborate on all the interesting periods of the history of jazz

Slavery and blues – back to the source

- Firstly, we will be talking about how jazz originated, and for what reasons. Many people might

associate jazz with the black society, but why and is that the truth, that it has something to do with

the black community?

- As you said, yes, it makes sense to associate jazz with the black community. Because jazz

music derived from the African-Americans. And lines can be drawn all the way back to slavery

- So, what you say is, that the former slaves were the ones who created the jazz music?

- Well, not directly, but it was the start. There had to be a creole population in place, which is a

population of blacks born not in Africa, but in America

- Hmm, let’s talk about it from the beginning, what happened?

- Well, in the 19th century many Africans, especially from the west part of Africa, were

transported to America, where they were sold as slaves, which we might know. The women

often worked as house keepers and the men normally worked in the fields. The slaves were

suppressed and had no rights, and to keep the mood up, some slaves began singing in the

fields, the music was used for many functions such as spiritual, work functions or social

function

- Can I interrupt with a question?

- Yeah of course

- These work songs the slaves were singing in the fields, was that the jazz genre?

- No, not exactly. Blues as a music genre, evolved from hymns, work songs and field hollers.

Then later blues evolved, and became what we know as jazz. Let me explain what blues is: It’s

a genre which is recognised the pain of lost love and injustice and it also gives expression to

the victory of outlasting a broken heart and facing down adversity

- Do I understand it correctly, if I say that the poor slaves were political in their songs? I mean if they

were singing about injustice and so on?

- That is in a way true. Furthermore, blues is also the foundation of jazz, as well as the prime

source of rhythm and blues, and also of rock’n’roll and country music. Actually, the blues is

still evolving and is still widely played today

- So, to say, it is not because the old blues genre stops developing, just because a new genre is

developed?

- Yeah, exactly

- I would like to know how the songs being sung in the fields by the slaves were suddenly a new

music genre

- Well, let me try to explain. The closing of African slave trade in 1808, resulted in slaves

beginning to reproduce

- You mean, getting children

- Yeah, exactly. The black people in America began remembering, as well as forgetting, the

African traditions. So, they reinvented these songs to fit their needs in this entirely different

American context. And the descendants of the former slaves, the creole population, kept the

long tradition of taking music lessons, and they learnt to play from music, whereas the

unschooled coloured musicians were more interested in the trumpets and learned from

exploring the instruments. And their repertoire, the musicians united in, was quadrilles, oh

that it is a difficult word. Marches and ragtime

- Let me get this straight, so the descendants of the former slaves came from a tradition where music

played a big role, and therefore they continued this tradition on playing music, either by exploring

the instruments or by taking music lessons?

- Yeah, that is absolutely true. And what happened next, was that the Jazz, which still hadn’t

gotten its name back then, it developed as the most talented trumpetists started to develop

their traditional blues in instrumental ways, you could say

- So, we should end here, so we won’t reveal anything from the next podcast. Thank you so much Mr.

Mangosoo for telling us about the beginning of jazz

- You are most welcome

- And the next thing we will discuss is New Orleans and why it is called the melting pot of sounds

New Orleans – the melting pot of sound

- Mr. Mangooso is back in the studio, and now we will have a look about why we often associate the

American City, New Orleans, with Jazz. And I think you are able to tell us more, isn’t that right sir?

- Yes it is, and as you said in the introduction, I did grow up in New Orleans. Previously, we

talked about that it was the slaves and the blues genre were the main sources to develop

what we know today as Jazz

- Exactly, and can you now tell us how New Orleans comes into the picture? Because I don’t quite

understand why it is exactly New Orleans we always talk about, when we talk about jazz

- Of course. New Orleans-jazz, as it has been referred to, is considered to be the original jazz

music. It emerged in the beginning of the 1900s among coloured Americans. And it is perfectly

all right to doubt the emphasis on New Orleans, actually. Because it is actually only a theory,

that New Orleans is the Cradle of jazz, as it has also been referred to

- Oh, they refer to it as the Cradle of jazz?

- Yes, because it was where jazz was born

- So, what do you think yourself? Is it also just a theory to you?

- No, I would say there is enough evidence to call New Orleans the Cradle of Jazz

- And why is that?

- Well, because many of the original musicians, who recorded music in Chicago and New York in

the beginning of the 1920s, they came from New Orleans

- Could you give us some examples of these musicians?

- Yeah, you know: King Oliver, Sidney Bechet, Jelly Roll Morton and of course the legend Louis

Armstrong, who we will discuss later. And likewise, the first orchestra, who recorded a jazz

record in New York in 1917, came from New Orleans as well

- Can you explain why New Orleans were special in this case, why this city specifically?

- Yeah, in the beginning of the 1900s New Orleans had a great tradition of celebrating. Opera,

military marching bands, folk music, of course the blues, different types of church music,

ragtime, echoes of traditional African drumming, and all of the dance styles that went with

this music could be heard and seen throughout the city. And when all these kinds of music

blended into one, jazz was born

- Oh, it sounds almost romantic

- Haha, yeah it does – somehow it is, don’t you think?

- Yeah yeah, true. It is great music. Something just came to my mind. I saw this Disney movie last

week’

- Do you mean “The princess and the frog”?

- Yes, I bet you have watched it as well?

- Of course, I have. I watched it with my daughter, it is all about jazz and New Orleans. The

movie also depicts the lives of the African-Americans in America, and how the characters are

dreaming of a better life. And of course the good rhythmical sounds of jazz are playing in the

background

- Haha, I think that we can conclude that we highly recommend watching “The Princess and the

Frog” if you want to get into the jazz mood

- Yes, we do

- Thank you so much Mr. Mangooso for once again enriching us

Louis Armstrong – The jazz original

- Through his clear, warm sound, unbelievable sense of swing, perfect grasp of harmony, supreme

intelligence and his melodic improvisations, he taught us how to play jazz. Welcome back everyone.

The quote by Wynton Marsalis as I just read aloud, is a quote about the legendary Louis Armstrong.

Now Mr. Mangooso and I will talk about Armstrong and how he influenced the jazz. And also

welcome back Mr. Mangooso

- Thank you so much. And yes, the quote by Marsalis is very true. Louis Armstrong was one of

the most influential artists in the history of music, and as we mentioned earlier, he was also

born in New Orleans, Louisiana on August 4, 1908, to be precise. No, 1901

- So, he was born in the time when the jazz was just developing

- That’s true. And I also think that is one of the reason for him to start playing the cornet at the

age of 13

- Can I ask you? What is a cornet?

- A cornet is a kind of trumpet. But let me continue to talk about Armstrong. What is amazing

about him, is that even though he had a very difficult beginning of his life, he ended up being

one of the most well-known and loved musicians of all times

- How come Louis stands out from the rest?

- Well, what characterises Armstrong is that he perfected the improvised jazz solo, as we know

it. Armstrong developed the idea of musicians playing during breaks that expanded into

musicians playing individual soloes

- What was the norm before Louis developed this idea?

- Well, before Louis, there was this guy Dixieland. And his style was the style of jazz that

everyone was playing. This was a style that featured collective improvisation where everyone

soloed at once

- Oh, it sounds a bit confusing if everyone was playing at the same time

- Well yeah, that is true. But it was more organised, and the musicians they knew how to play

together and improvise at the same time. But after Louis it became the norm to play during

breaks

- Before you mentioned that Armstrong perfected the improvised jazz, what do you mean by this?

- What I mean is, that jazz is all about improvising, and it is the most defining feature of jazz

actually. Improvisation is creating, or making up music, as you go along, and jazz musicians

they played from printed music and they improvised solos. Improvisation has always been

central to jazz, from Dixieland and the collective improvisation in the beginning of the history

of jazz to the solo improvisation of Louis Armstrong

- There is one specific song with Louis Armstrong that I will never ever stop loving

- Mhm, which one is that?

- What a wonderful world

- Oh, that is also a very good song

- But my question is. That song is not very jazzy is it? I mean, there are no trumpets in that song?

- No, that’s true. What a wonderful world, was a song he released very late in his carreer, after

he had been very ill. And what characterise Armstrong is his ability to be happy and see all the

good things, even though everything seems dark

- And let that be the final words about Louis Armstrong and the improvisation

Swing: sound in motion and Duke Ellington the master composer

- Welcome back to the studio Mr. Mangooso

- It is lovely to be back in the studio

- We have been discussing the beginning of the history of jazz, and now it is time to move further on

into the history, and look at what is called the swing era. So, what exactly is the swing era?

- Yes, let me explain that to all of you. Swing is the basic rhythm of jazz, and swinging means

being in sync with other people and loving it

- Can I interrupt? Just so all our listeners can follow. What does it mean to be in sync?

- That’s a good question. To be in sync means to be in agreement or in harmony like

synchronised persons

- Perfect, now that is clarified

- Yes it is, and let me elaborate; Swing as a jazz style first appeared during the Great Depression

by the mid-1930s

- For clarification before you continue. The Great Depression was a severe world wide economic

depression that took place mostly during the 1930s, originating in the United States. The depression

started in the United States after a major stock market crash of October 29 in 1929. It was a difficult

time, because so many people lost almost all of their money

- Exactly, and it was during this depressing time, that the optimistic feeling of swing lifted the

spirits of everyone in America, and by the mid-1930s, swing dancing had become the national

dance of America, and the big bands were playing this style of music

- It is great, right. The fact that the people continue to be happy, celebrating and dancing even though

they lost so much

- Yes, it is absolutely amazing

- Well, we were also supposed to be talking about Duke Ellington, where does he enter into the picture

or the scene, you could say

- He most definitely entered the scene, that’s true, and among with Count Basie, Fletcher

Henderson, Paul Whiteman and Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington was a great orchestra leader,

and they lead some of the greatest bands of the era

- Would you tell me more about Ellington?

- Of course. He was one of the most significant figures in music

history, and he was born in April 29 in 1899, in Washington D.C,

and he began studying the piano at the age of seven, and he started playing jazz as a

teenager. And then he moved to New York City to become a bandleader, and as a pianist, or

composer and bandleader, Ellington was one of the creators of the big band sound, which

fueled the "swing" era. And he continued leading and composing for his jazz orchestra until

his death in 1974

- So, do I understand it correctly, if I say that there is a change of focus from Armstrong to Ellington?

- Yeah exactly, Armstrong’s jazz was about the individual solos, and with the Ellington era, the

big band was developed

- Before we round up, I would like to ask if there are any movies about this era?

- There is a very good one I would highly recommend if you are interested in The Great

Depression and the Swing Era

- Which movie is it?

- It’s “The Great Gatsby”, and especially, I would say, the new one with Leonardo DiCaprio. In

this movie you really get the feeling of the swing era and how they loved to party and

celebrate

- On that note it is time to wrap up our podcast. Thank you once again Mr. Mangooso

Bebop: the summit of sounds and Dizzy Gillespie: A Jazz Visionary

- We are now back in the studio and I will begin today’s talk with a quote from Thelonious Monk, "If

you really understand the meaning of bebop, you understand the meaning of freedom." It

sounds beautiful doesn’t it Mr. Mangooso?

- Yes and it is very beautiful

- So, as it says in the quote we will be looking into bebop and Dizzy Gillespie, who was the jazz

visionary of bebop. So, what are we dealing with here?

- Let me explain this interesting period of the jazz history. In the early 1940s, jazz musicians

were looking for new directions to explore. A new style of jazz was born, called bebop. It had

fast tempos, intricate melodies, and complex harmonies, and bebop was considered jazz for

intellectuals. No longer were there huge big bands, but smaller groups that did not play for

dancing audiences but for listening audiences

- Arh, so very opposite of the swing era, where the audience were very big and very often dancing

and having fun

- Exactly, now the focus was on listening

- And I suppose Dizzy Gillespie is a central person to this new era?

- Oh yes, he was a legend – very talented. I’ll read a quote from Wynton Marsalis, and you will

maybe realise what Gillespie masters. He says like this, “The first time you hear Dizzy Gillespie

play the trumpet, you may think that the tape was recorded at the wrong speed. He played so

high, so fast, and so correctly."

- Oh, so who was this Gillespie? How did he manage to become such a talent?

- Let me start from the beginning. His name was Birks "Dizzy"

Gillespie and he was born on October 21, 1917, in Cheraw, South

Carolina. He got his first music lesson from his father and he took off from there. And then he

moved to New York City in 1937 and he met musicians such as Thelonious Monk and Charlie

Parker. And they began to experiment with jazz and come up with the bebop sound

- I know you said that bebop is fast, but what else characterizes it?

- Well, bebop was also a reaction to the fact that white people copied the black people’s music,

and they didn’t do such a good job, but they still earned a lot more than the black ones,

because they were better at marketing – and the fact that they also had a higher social status

- Oh, really?

- Yeah, that was the life in America at that time, and to some extend it is also the same today.

Thelonius Monk he should have expressed something like this, “We create a genre that they

can’t copy”. This might not be true, but it still shows pretty well the issues of that time

- What did the old jazz legends, let’s say Louis Armstrong, say about the new jazz genre?

- Well, he didn’t like it. And he, among many of the older jazz musicians, didn’t like it as well.

They didn’t like this fast speed. But nevertheless, the new jazz is today just as popular as the

old jazz

- Thank you again so much for telling us about Bebop and Gillespie

- You are welcome

Latin and Afro-Cuban Jazz: Beyond the borders

- And we are back again with the final podcast about the history of jazz. Today we will be talking

about how jazz was inspired by Latin and Afro-Cuban jazz

- Yes, and today I would actually like to start off by saying that Afro-Cuban jazz celebrates a

collective musical history. Through its percussive beat, it unites ragtime, blues, swing, and also

various grooves of Cuban music. And it proclaims our shared musical heritage."

- So, today we will be talking about the shared musical heritage. The fact that jazz didn’t just happen

in the United States, but it spread throughout the world. And especially Latin America has

influenced the jazz as we know it now

- Yeah, but also how new ethnical groups entering America had an influence on jazz music. Let

me try to explain. The combination of African, Spanish, and native cultures in Latin America

created a unique body of music and dance, and jazz musicians from Jelly Roll Morton to Duke

Ellington to Dizzy Gillespie combined their music with this Latin sound to create a powerful

blend. In the 1940s and 50s, when musicians from Cuba began to play with jazz musicians in

New York, the circle was complete. By combining the musical traditions of North, South, and

Central America, Latin jazz celebrates our musical differences and helps us to find a common

ground

- It is very interesting when realising how many different things we get out of working together and,

you know, the cooperation across boundaries

- Exactly. Jazz is a melting pot of different cultures with different music traditions, and because

of that this great music genre was developed throughout the 21st century

- And by those beautiful words we will end the radio programme about the history of jazz. Thank you

so much for listening, and thank you so much Mr. Mangooso for your expertise

- You are welcome, and thank you! I had a great time