ptsd hearing transcript

8/19/2019 PTSD Hearing Transcript

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Calderwood-Mackelprang, Inc. 303.477.3500

1

1 STATE OF COLORADO

2 DEPARTMENT OF REVENUE

3 STATE LI CENSI NG AUTHORI TY

4 MARI J UANA ENFORCEMENT DI VI SI ON

5 ______________________________________________________

6 TRANSCRI PT OF PUBLI C MEETI NGPr oposed Rul es 5 CCR 1006- 2

7 Hel d on J ul y 15, 2015 ______________________________________________________

8 REPORTER' S TRANSCRI PT

9 ______________________________________________________

10 The audi o r ecor di ng of t he above- ent i t l ed

11 hear i ng was t r anscr i bed by Ter esa Har t , Regi st er ed

12 Pr of essi onal Repor t er and Not ar y Publ i c.

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DATE FILED: December 2, 2015 1:00 PM

FILING ID: 44A5733FB064A

CASE NUMBER: 2015CV32969


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1 PANEL:RAY ESTACI O, CHAI RMAN

2 NADEEN I BRAHI MRI CK BROWN

3 J OAN SOWI NSKI TONY CAPELLO

4 J I LL HUNSAKER- RYAN J ANELLE ORSBORN

5 CHRI STOPHER STANLEY

6 Publ i c Speaker s: J ohn Evans Mar vi n Ti ndal l

7 Ron Ni xon Thomas McCul l ockDr . Dor i s Gunder sen Laur a Al t obel l i

8 Ter i Robnet t Lar i sa Bol i varRepr esent at i ve J onat han Si nger Kara J anowsky

9 Dr . Chr i st i an Hageset h Logan Edwar dsMat hew Kahl St ephani e Hopper

10 Dr . Pet er Pr yor Li nda Spangl erSt even Set h McBr i de Rober t Chase

11 Lor yl McBr i de Ai mee KahlMi guel Tul l y Vi cki Truj i l l o

12 J ames Guenar d Bob Doyl eSue Si sl ey Di ane Fornbacher

13 Gr eg Dur an Cami l l e Lynn Sampi noWi l l i am Chengel i s St acey Li nn

14 St eve Ot er o Ri ck Wai nwr i ghtMi ke Lat ona Fr eddi e Moor e

15 Dr . J oe Cohen

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 * * * * *

3 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Al l r i ght . I t i s

4 of f i ci al l y 10: 00 a. m. And I ' d l i ke t o s tar t t he J ul y

5 Col or ado Boar d of Heal t h meet i ng. Wel come ever ybody

6 who i s i n at t endance.

7 Wi t h t hat , J ami e, can you pl ease do a

8 r ol l cal l .

9 MS. THORNTON: Sur e. Brown.

10 MR. BROWN: Her e.

11 MS. THORNTON: Cappel l o.

12 MR. CAPPELLO: Her e.

13 MS. THORNTON: I br ahi m.

14 MS. I BRAHI M: ( No audi bl e r esponse was

15 hear d. )

16 MS. THORNTON: VanAuken?

17 MR. VANAUKEN: Her e.

18 MS. THORNTON: Or sbor n.

19 MS. ORSBORN: Her e.

20 MS. THORNTON: Ryan.

21 MS. HUNSAKER- RYAN: Her e.

22 MS. THORNTON: Sowi nski .

23 MS. SOWI NSKI : ( No audi bl e r esponse was

24 hear d. )

25 MS. THORNTON: St anl ey.


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1 MR. STANLEY: Her e.

2 MS. THORNTON: Est aci o.

3 MR. ESTACI O: Her e.

4 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Al l r i ght . Thank

5 you. For t he r ecor d, we do have a quor um.

6 A coupl e of qui ck announcement s.

7 Unf or t unat el y, t he women' s bat hr oom i s out of or der , i f

8 you have not al r eady seen t hat . So i f any woman woul d

9 need t o use t he r est r oom, t her e wi l l be st af f si t t i ng

10 i n t he back t hat can escor t you t o t he B bui l di ng. We

11 apol ogi ze f or t hat i nconveni ence.

12 Al so, f or t he f i r st t i me we ar e pi l ot i ng

13 Adobe Connect , so wel come t o t hose who ar e on- l i ne.

14 Bear wi t h us, agai n, t hi s i s a pi l ot . We' r e goi ng t o

15 do al l t hat we can t o make sur e t hi s r uns smoot h and

16 ef f ect i vel y. So t hose ar e, I t hi nk, t he onl y

17 announcement s I cur r ent l y have.

18 I f we can, al so make sur e t o si l ence al l

19 cel l phones as we move i nt o publ i c t est i mony t o make

20 sur e t hat ever ybody can be hear d adequat el y and t her e' s

21 no i nt er r upt i ons. And, of cour se, we' r e get t i ng a f ul l

22 r oom, so i f you have t he abi l i t y t o move t owar ds t he

23 cent er so t hat we coul d have more peopl e abl e t o si t ,

24 t hat woul d be gr eat l y appr eci at ed.

25 So wi t h t hat we wi l l cont i nue t o move on.


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1 I ' d l i ke t o seek appr oval of t he meet i ng mi nut es. Has

2 t he Board had t he oppor t uni t y t o revi ew t hose and are

3 t her e any addi t i ons or cor r ect i ons t o t hat ? Al l r i ght .

4 Hear i ng none, i s t her e any opposi t i on t o

5 appr ovi ng those?

6 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: No.

7 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Al l r i ght .

8 Hear i ng none, t hose ar e so passed. At t hi s t i me I ' d

9 l i ke t o see i f t her e ar e - - J ami e, i f t her e ar e - - oh,

10 she' s out ?

11 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: ( I naudi bl e. )

12 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Oh, you got i t ?

13 Okay. - - any comment s r egardi ng mat t er s t hat ar e not

14 on t he agenda?

15 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: I don' t bel i eve

16 t her e ar e. Let ' s see. No, t her e ar e not .

17 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Okay, great .

18 Thank you ver y much. I n t hat case, we wi l l be

19 pr oceedi ng t o document No. 1. And Dr . Ray Est aci o has

20 vol unt eer ed t o be t he chai r . The f l oor i s your s, si r .

21 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Okay. Thank you,

22 Mr . Pr esi dent . J ust conf i r m we do have a quor um f or

23 t hi s r ul i ng - - r ul i ng.

24 I ' d l i ke t o begi n wi t h a r evi ew of some

25 of t he l ogi st i cs f or t hi s r ul emaki ng hear i ng. The


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1 Boar d r ecei ved wr i t t en t est i mony. Al l t i mel y wr i t t en

2 t est i mony i s on t he Boar d' s websi t e and i s par t of t hi s

3 r ul emaki ng pr ocess .

4 The Boar d has al l ocat ed t wo and a hal f

5 hour s f or t hi s hear i ng. Af t er I open t he r ul emaki ng

6 hear i ng, t he Di vi si on wi l l have an oppor t uni t y t o

7 present t he pr oposed rul e and r espond t o board member

8 quest i ons. I woul d ask t hat t he Di vi si on l i mi t t hei r

9 pr esent at i on t o 15 mi nut es.

10 The Boar d wi l l t hen t ake or al t est i mony

11 f r om t hose t hat have si gned up t o t est i f y. The

12 t est i mony wi l l be l i mi t ed t o t wo and a hal f mi nut es per

13 per son i n an ef f or t t o hear your name - - hear f r om as

14 many i ndi vi dual s as possi bl e.

15 Pl ease begi n your t est i mony wi t h st at i ng

16 your name and or gani zat i on you r epr esent . To ensur e

17 t hat we hear a var i et y of vi ewpoi nt s on al l t he t opi cs,

18 we wi l l not necessar i l y t ake t est i mony i n t he or der

19 t hat t he i ndi vi dual s si gned up.

20 Boar d member s may ask quest i ons, and

21 addi t i onal t i me wi l l be al l ot t ed f or an i ndi vi dual t o

22 r espond. At r oughl y about 11: 45 or so t he Di vi si on

23 wi l l have an oppor t uni t y t o r espond t o or al t est i mony

24 and any addi t i onal boar d quest i ons. The hear i ng wi l l

25 t hen be cl osed, and t he Boar d wi l l begi n del i ber at i on.


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1 Si nce t hi s i s a - - wi l l be a busy

2 hear i ng, I want t o hi ghl i ght t he i mpor t ance of not

3 r epeat i ng t est i mony. I f t he poi nt s you wi sh t o make

4 have been st at ed, pl ease st at e your agr eement or

5 di sagr eement wi t h t hese poi nt s. Thi s hel ps us hear

6 f r om as many wi t nesses as poss i bl e.

7 Any board member t hat want s t o

8 di scont i nue t he t est i mony f or bei ng r epet i t i ve may

9 i nt er r upt t he t est i mony and have t hat t est i mony be

10 di scont i nued.

11 Pl ease hel p ever yone t hat t ook t i me t o be

12 her e t oday by st ayi ng i n your seat and not i nt er r upt i ng

13 or ot her wi se bei ng di sr upt i ve of t hi s hear i ng.

14 So I now open t he r ul emaki ng hear i ng f or

15 5 CCR 1006- 2, pr oposed amendment s t o 5 CCR 1006- 2,

16 medi cal use of mar i j uana.

17 Do any of t he boar d member s have any

18 conf l i ct of i nt er est t hat t hey want t o di scl ose? To

19 conf i r m, t hat no boar d member s have conf l i ct s. As I

20 ment i oned, we have a quor um t oday.

21 And wi t h t hat I ' d ask st af f t o i dent i f y

22 t hemsel ves and t hei r di vi si on f or t he r ecor d, and

23 pr oceed wi t h t hei r pr esent at i on.

24 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Thank you,

25 ( i naudi bl e) .


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1 MS. RI GGI NS: Good mor ni ng. My name i s

2 Nat al i e Ri ggi ns, and I ' m t he pr ogr am manager f or t he

3 Medi cal Mar i j uana Regi st r y.

4 So t oday f or my por t i on I have t wo mi nor

5 t echni cal updat es. So t he f i r st one i s pr oposi ng t o

6 r emove t he r equi r ement t o have a not ary i n r egul at i on 2

7 and r egul at i on 4.

8 Thi s r equi r ement was or i gi nal l y i ni t i at ed

9 when t he r egi st r y not i ced a t r end of car egi ver s

10 submi t t i ng pat i ent change f or ms wi t hout t he pat i ent ' s

11 knowl edge or consent .

12 I n Sept ember of 2014 t he Boar d appr oved

13 new pat i ent ver i f i cat i on pr ocedur es t o ensur e t hat our

14 appl i cat i on pr ocess i s pat i ent dr i ven. Wi t h t hose new

15 pr ocedur es, i t ' s no l onger necessar y f or pat i ent s t o

16 not ar i ze t hei r appl i cat i on. So t he ot her component t o

17 t hi s i s, r emovi ng t he not i f i cat i on r equi r ement al so

18 r educes t he bur den on appl i cant s t o f i nd and pay f or a

19 not ar y.

20 The second i t em we have i s mi nor

21 t echni cal cl eanup of Regul at i on 2, par t b- 5 and par t

22 1- 2. These t wo t echni cal c l ar i f i cat i ons i dent i f y a

23 par agr aph number ed by Ar abi c numer al r at her t han Roman

24 numer al , and cor r ect i vel y r ef er ence t he st at e

25 Admi ni st r at or Procedur es Act .


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1 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Mr . VanDyke?

2 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Al l r i ght . Go ahead.

3 MR. VANDYKE: Mi ne' s not qui t e t hat easy.

4 My name i s Mi ke VanDyke. I ' m t he br anch chi ef f or

5 envi r onment al epi demi ol ogy, occupat i onal heal t h, and

6 t oxi col ogy her e at CDPHE.

7 And my pr esent at i on t oday concer ns addi ng

8 PTSD as a new debi l i t at i ng condi t i on f or medi cal

9 mar i j uana. So I know t hi s was pr esent ed t o you guys i n

10 det ai l at t he May 15t h meet i ng, but I want ed t o j ust

11 qui ckl y ki nd of summar i ze t he pr ocess t hat we' ve been

12 t hr ough so f ar . And I want ed t o say t hat we r ecei ved a

13 pet i t i on f r om a pat i ent on J anuar y 27t h, 2015, t o add

14 PTSD as a new qual i f yi ng condi t i on.

15 As r equi r ed, t he Depar t ment eval uat ed

16 t hi s pet i t i on based on t he Boar d of Heal t h r egul at i ons.

17 And j ust t o summar i ze what t hose ar e t o get t hose on

18 t he r ecor d i s t hat t he Boar d of Heal t h r equi r es t hat

19 t he Depar t ment deny any pet i t i on t o add a debi l i t at i ng

20 medi cal condi t i on i f t her e ar e no peer - r evi ewed

21 publ i shed st udi es of r andomi zed cl i ni cal - - r andomi zed

22 cont r ol l ed st udi es or wel l - desi gned obser vat i onal

23 st udi es showi ng ef f i cacy i n humans as t he f i r st

24 cr i t er i a.

25 The second cri t er i a i s, we deny i t i f


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1 t her e ar e st udi es t hat show har m and t her e ar e

2 al t er nat i ve convent i onal t r eat ment s avai l abl e f or t he

3 condi t i on. Those are t he t wo mai n ones t hat appl y

4 her e.

5 The Depar t ment ' s r evi ew r eal l y f ound

6 t hat , you know, f or t hi s par t i cul ar i ssue, t her e was a

7 r andomi zed cont r ol l ed t r i al st udy. And i n t er ms of

8 har m, I t hi nk t her e was - - t her e was a l ot of gr ay ar ea

9 whet her t her e was har m or not . So t he Depar t ment chose

10 t o send t hi s on t o an ad hoc - - or t o t he Sci ent i f i c

11 Advi sor y Counci l t o r evi ew t hi s condi t i on.

12 Thi s was r evi ewed by t he Sci ent i f i c

13 Advi sor y Counci l on Apr i l 10t h, 2015. And t he advi sory

14 counci l vot e - - or r esponded by consensus vot e of 7 t o

15 3 t o r ecommend t he condi t i on t o be added by t he Boar d

16 of Heal t h.

17 I do want t o add t hat t hi s wasn' t a

18 unani mous vot e. I want t o make t hat cl ear , i t was 7 t o

19 3; and t hat t her e was - - peopl e suppor t i ng t hi s r eal l y

20 sai d t hat , you know, t hey r epor t ed i t - - or t hey

21 suppor t ed i t because i t was i mpor t ant t o r eal l y pr omot e

22 honest y among medi cal mar i j uana appl i cant s. Thi s makes

23 i t a mor e honest pr ocess t hat peopl e can use - - can

24 r epor t PTSD as t he condi t i on t hey ar e usi ng medi cal

25 mar i j uana.


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1 I t al so pr ovi des a mor e - - a gr eat

2 oppor t uni t y f or t he medi cal mar i j uana r egi st r y t o

3 obt ai n accur at e i nf or mat i on about why peopl e ar e usi ng

4 medi cal mar i j uana. And t hey al so expr essed t hat even

5 t hough r et ai l mar i j uana i s avai l abl e t o per sons wi t h

6 PTSD, addi ng PTSD as a qual i f yi ng condi t i on f or t he

7 medi cal mar i j uana pr ogr am mi ght act ual l y encour age a

8 benef i ci al physi ci an- pat i ent r el at i onshi p, and i mpr ove

9 t he ut i l i zat i on of convent i onal PTSD t r eat ment s.

10 So agai n, t he r ecommendat i on was not

11 unani mous. Ther e wer e opposi ng vi ews. The opposi ng

12 vi ews i ncl uded t hat cl i ni cal ef f i cacy dat a i s t oo

13 l i mi t ed, and we shoul d r eal l y wai t f or t he r esul t s of

14 t he t wo pendi ng PTSD st udi es f unded by CDPHE' s medi cal

15 mar i j uana gr ant s pr ogr am.

16 And t he ot her t hi ng was t hat t here was

17 concer n about t he pot ent i al har ms of mar i j uana, and t he

18 f act t hat r et ai l mar i j uana i s avai l abl e t o peopl e wi t h

19 PTSD.

20 So i t was, agai n, r ecommended 7 t o 3 on

21 Apr i l 10t h t o submi t t hi s t o t he Boar d of Heal t h. Thi s

22 was pr esent ed as a r equest f or r ul emaki ng on May 15t h.

23 Si nce t hat t i me, not i ce of t hi s r ul emaki ng was sent t o

24 t he f ol l owi ng st akehol der s: I t i ncl uded f our medi cal

25 mar i j uana r egi st r y st akehol der e- mai l l i st s. Thi s


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1 i ncl udes physi ci an, car egi ver s, cent er s, and t he

2 gener al mai l l i st .

3 I t al so was sent t o t he Sci ent i f i c

4 Advi sor y Counci l of t he medi cal mar i j uana r esear ch

5 gr ant pr ogr am, t he Col or ado Medi cal Soci et y, t he

6 Col orado Psychi at r i c Soci et y, and t he Col orado Academy

7 of Fami l y Physi ci ans.

8 Thr ough J ul y 1st , t wo Sci ent i f i c Advi sor y

9 Counci l members communi cat ed t hei r concer ns i n wr i t i ng

10 ei t her t o t he Boar d or t he Depar t ment . These wer e

11 addr essed i n t he cover memo t hat ' s been pr ovi ded t o t he

12 Boar d. And i f you l ook at your memo, t hose ar e

13 hi ghl i ght ed on page 3 and 4 of your memo.

14 So wi t h t hat , I t hi nk t hat ' s al l I have

15 f or my pr esent at i on, but open i t up f or quest i ons.

16 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you f or t hat

17 pr esent at i on. Now I ' d l i ke t o ask i f t her e' s any

18 quest i ons f r om t he Boar d.

19 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Dr . Wol k has a

20 quest i on or c l ar i f i cat i on.

21 DR. WOLK: Yeah, j ust a t echni cal

22 cl ar i f i cat i on. And J en can cor r ect me. But j ust t o

23 cor r ect somet hi ng t hat Mi ke sai d, t he commi t t ee does

24 not r eal l y have t hat st at ut or y aut hor i t y t o make t hat

25 r ecommendat i on, t hat comes t o me.


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1 And I chose t o have t he commi t t ee

2 del i ber at e and pr ovi de t he f eedback and i nf or mat i on t o

3 me so t hat I coul d make a mor e i nf or med deci si on when

4 i t came t o maki ng t hi s r ecommendat i on t o t he Boar d. So

5 I j ust want ed t o add t hat poi nt of c l ar i f i cat i on, t hat

6 i t was as a r esul t of t he commi t t ee' s wor k t hat I

7 br ought t he r ecommendat i on f or ward t o t he Boar d f or

8 consi der at i on.

9 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you, Dr . Wol k.

10 Any ot her quest i ons or comment s? Ri ck?

11 MR. BROWN: Maybe j ust one f or Dr . Wol k.

12 I not i ced i n t he summar y of t he mi nut es - - whi ch was

13 ver y hel pf ul , Mi ke, so t hank you f or br i ngi ng t hat

14 f or war d. I was hopi ng ei t her you or Dr . Wol k coul d

15 t al k a l i t t l e bi t about what was descr i bed as et hi cal

16 i ssues wi t h t he SAC br i ef l y, whi ch i s not ed i n t he

17 mi nut es.

18 DR. WOLK: I was not at t hat meet i ng, so

19 t hat woul d be a hard t hi ng f or me t o descr i be.

20 MR. BROWN: ( I naudi bl e) wi t h any det ai l .

21 DR. WOLK: Yeah. I mean, i f you want t o

22 gi ve me a l i t t l e mor e cont ext . I can say i s, as Mi ke

23 ment i oned, I t hi nk t her e wer e i ssues r el at ed t o, I ' l l

24 say, honest di scl osur e of di agnoses. And t hat f r om a

25 t r anspar ency st andpoi nt , you know, i t ' s act ual l y of


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1 benef i t t o add PTSD because of t he supposi t i on t hat

2 many f ol ks who suf f er f r om PTSD have t o access medi cal

3 mar i j uana t hr ough anot her cat egor y, such as pai n. So I

4 t hi nk t hat ' s pr obabl y t he cont ext t hat t hat was r ai sed

5 under .

6 MR. BROWN: Thank you.

7 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: So I have a quest i on,

8 Dr . Wol k. So j ust t o cl ar i f y t hen, I t hi nk t he mai n

9 dr i ver wi t h t hi s i n t er ms of t hi s change i n r ul i ng t o

10 add PTSD, i t ' s r eal l y t o r ei nf or ce t he

11 physi ci an- pat i ent r el at i onshi p i n t er ms of mor e

12 t r anspar ency?

13 DR. WOLK: So I t hi nk, you know,

14 t hat ' s - - t her e ar e t wo dr i ver s. And I t hi nk bet ween

15 bot h you and Ri ck, you t ouched upon t hem. I mean, I

16 t hi nk, agai n, we want t o be more honest about - - and

17 have f ol ks be mor e honest about di scl osi ng t hei r

18 condi t i ons.

19 And agai n, t he commi t t ee del i berated

20 qui t e a bi t about whether or not havi ng ever ybody sor t

21 of gr ouped i n under pai n was as honest a descr i pt i on or

22 di scl osur e as t r anspar ent as coul d go wi t h r egar d t o

23 t he uses of medi cal mar i j uana.

24 And t he second, you know, does go t o your

25 poi nt , t hat , you know, r at her t han sel f - medi cat i ng, i f


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1 you' r e l ooki ng at t he pot ent i al of sel f - medi cat i ng

2 t hr ough t he l egal i zed pr ogr am ver sus at l east

3 t heor et i cal l y cr eat i ng an oppor t uni t y f or a bona f i de

4 pat i ent - physi ci an r el at i onshi p by addi ng t hi s t o t he

5 l i st of qual i f yi ng condi t i ons, sever al st at es have

6 act ual l y done t hat .

7 They' ve act ual l y even i ncor por at ed some

8 r equi r ement s i nt o t hei r medi cal mar i j uana pr ogr ams t hat

9 we di dn' t t hi nk woul d necessar i l y hel p. That woul d

10 pr obabl y j ust compl i cat e t hi ngs and maybe make t hi ngs a

11 bi t mor e bur eaucr at i c. So t hat i t was enough, i n and

12 of i t sel f , t o have t hat bona f i de pat i ent - physi ci an

13 r el at i onshi p by havi ng t hi s l i st ed as a qual i f yi ng

14 condi t i on.

15 On t he f l i p si de, you know, I t hi nk

16 t her e' s concer n wi t h r egar d t o whet her or not t hi s

17 passes must er wi t h r egard t o, as Mi ke ment i oned, t he

18 r andomi zed cl i ni cal t r i al evi dence. So t hat ' s par t of

19 t he r eason why t here' s a t i me l i mi t t hat came as par t

20 of t he r ecommendat i on, t hat , you know, gi ve us a t r y

21 f or f our year s t o col l ect t hi s i nf or mat i on and t o add

22 t hi s t o t he l i st , and t hen l et ' s see what we l ear n as a

23 r esul t of addi t i onal r esear ch, as wel l as our dat a

24 col l ect i on i nf or mat i on as a r esul t of f ol ks agai n bei ng

25 mor e honest about r ef l ect i ng what di agnoses f or whi ch


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1 t hey' r e seeki ng medi cal mar i j uana.

2 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: I s t her e a pr ocess

3 f or t aki ng a qual i f i ed condi t i on out of t he r egi st r y

4 shoul d t hat happen, you know, i f you eval uat ed i t and

5 want ed t o say i t doesn' t qual i f y any l onger ?

6 DR. WOLK: So my under st andi ng i s, agai n,

7 I t hi nk t hat t hat ' s an oppor t uni t y t hat we' r e t r yi ng t o

8 cover as i t r el at es t o new condi t i ons t hat woul d be

9 added. I ' l l def er t o J en and our l egal exper t i se wi t h

10 r egar d t o exi st i ng condi t i ons s i nce t hose ar e embedded

11 i n t he st at e const i t ut i on. I don' t bel i eve t hat t hose

12 can be r emoved f r om t he l i st unl ess i t ' s t hr ough a

13 bal l ot i ni t i at i ve.

14 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: But t hi s coul d be

15 as a new condi t i on?

16 DR. WOLK: So t he r ecommendat i on i s f or

17 f our year s. And i t woul d sunset af t er f our year s

18 unl ess, agai n, at t hat t i me t he Boar d, as i t ' s seat ed

19 t hen, and/ or t he execut i ve di r ect or make a

20 r ecommendat i on t hat i t be cont i nued as a qual i f yi ng

21 condi t i on.

22 So t hi s al l ows f or t he pot ent i al f or

23 sunset t i ng t hi s condi t i on or r emovi ng t he condi t i on

24 af t er t he f our year s i f t he evi dence and/ or , you know,

25 t he ot her i nf or mat i on t hat we col l ect doesn' t r eal l y


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1 war r ant cont i nuat i on.

2 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: What ' s your t i me

3 f r ame f or gat her i ng t he r esear ch and i nf or mat i on? How

4 l ong does t hat t ake r easonabl y or , you know,

5 r eal i st i cal l y?

6 DR. WOLK: I can def er t o Mi ke as t he

7 sci ent i st , and he can t al k t hr ough t hat . As you know,

8 t he Boar d appr oved at l east t wo st udi es t hat we' r e

9 f undi ng t hat have a t hr ee- year t i me f r ame on t hem; and

10 so t he commi t t ee al so hel ped me del i berat e what woul d

11 be a r easonabl e per i od of t i me.

12 Cer t ai nl y a one or a t wo or even a

13 t hr ee- year per i od i s probabl y not a reasonabl e enough

14 l engt h of t i me i n or der t o col l ect addi t i onal r esear ch

15 i nf or mat i on not j ust f r om her e i n Col or ado, but ot her

16 r esear ch t hat ' s bei ng conduct ed i n ot her pl aces.

17 So t he f our - year mark was ki nd of , you

18 know, wher e we t hought al most a mi ni mum t hreshol d f or a

19 durat i on of t i me t hat seemed t o make sense t hat gave

20 t hem - - you know, gave us a l ong enough per i od wi t hout

21 ext endi ng i t out t oo f ar .

22 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: What was t he SAC' s

23 r ecommendat i on f or t he t i me per i od?

24 DR. WOLK: The f our year s was par t of

25 t hat r ecommendat i on t hat came t o me. Ther e wer e a


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1 number of consi der at i ons agai n t hat t he commi t t ee t ook

2 a l ook at ; l i ke I sai d, i ncl udi ng some addi t i onal

3 l anguage or r est r i ct i ons or compl exi t i es as i t r el at ed

4 t o, you know, physi ci ans' i nf or mat i on speci f i c t o PTSD.

5 And as we consi dered each of t hose, t he

6 onl y sor t of speci f i c pi ece t hat sor t of came t hr ough

7 f r om t he commi t t ee was t hi s t i me per i od of f our year s.

8 None of t he ot her pi eces - -

9 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: The commi t t ee

10 r ecommended t he t i me per i od of f our year s? I wasn' t

11 awar e of t hat at al l . I t di dn' t come t hr ough i n t he

12 mi nut es or anyt hi ng.

13 DR. WOLK: Yeah. Agai n, i t was par t of

14 t he r ecommendat i on. I t was par t of t he del i ber at i on.

15 I t was def i ni t el y par t of t he di scussi on. So I wi l l

16 say t hat t hat i s what ended up comi ng t hrough.

17 I can' t r emember who speci f i cal l y, i f i t

18 was somet hi ng t hat I had suggest ed or an i ndi vi dual

19 member had suggest ed, but we wer e t r yi ng t o f i nd a

20 mi ddl e gr ound wi t h r egar d t o, i f t hi s i s somet hi ng t hat

21 we want ed t o add, di d i t make sense t o put a t i me l i mi t

22 on i t whi l e we' r e gat her i ng t he addi t i onal i nf or mat i on.

23 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Any f ur t her quest i ons?

24 I i magi ne we' l l have a mor e t hor ough di scussi on at

25 del i ber at i ons. But I ' d l i ke t o move f or war d t hen t o


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1 begi n t o t ake or al t est i mony. Thank you f or s i gni ng

2 up.

3 The Boar d r ecommended t hat , you know,

4 r epr esent at i on f r om t he Sci ent i f i c Advi sor y Commi t t ee

5 be par t of t he t est i mony, and we' l l change t he or der a

6 l i t t l e bi t i n t hat regard.

7 To st ar t I ' d l i ke t o cal l Mr . J ohn Evans.

8 And t hen soon af t er t hat - - you' l l have t wo and a hal f

9 mi nut es. Mr . Ron Ni xon, be pr epared t o t ake t he

10 mi cr ophone af t er Mr . Evans. Thank you. Go ahead.

11 MR. EVANS: Thank you.

12 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: I nt r oduce yoursel f and

13 t he or gani zat i on you repr esent .

14 MR. EVANS: Yes. My name i s J ohn Evans.

15 I am execut i ve di r ect or of a vet er ans suppor t gr oup,

16 Vet er ans For Fr eedom. I ' d l i ke t o t hank you f or your

17 t i me and addr essi ng t hi s i ssue, al l owi ng me t o speak i n

18 f r ont of you t oday.

19 I t i s our br ot her s and si st er s t hat ar e

20 commi t t i ng sui ci de every day out t her e, and we know

21 cannabi s wi l l hel p. We' r e not goi ng t o go away. These

22 ar e our br ot her s and si st er s, and t hey woul d do t he

23 same f or us.

24 Dur i ng your l ast meet i ng I hear d comment s

25 about , wel l , scar ed and af r ai d, and I don' t want t o


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1 address t hose, but t hey wer e comment s about t he

2 r eput at i on of t he st at e of Col or ado.

3 I ' d l i ke t o say r i ght now t hat t he

4 count r y I sr ael ar e t r eat i ng vet er ans i mmedi at el y af t er

5 combat wi t h cannabi s. The Canadi an gover nment i s

6 payi ng f or cannabi s f or vet er ans wi t h post t r aumat i c

7 st r ess. Those ar e t wo of our bi ggest al l i es. I ' m not

8 t oo - - our r eput at i on her e i n Col or ado, wel l , we' ve

9 l egal i zed i t .

10 Our r eput at i on i s, we' l l t ake t he t ax

11 dol l ar s f r om a t our i st bef or e pr ovi di ng hel p f or our

12 vet er ans wi t h post t r aumat i c st r ess. That ' s not r i ght .

13 And we' r e not goi ng t o st and f or i t . I ' m not goi ng t o

14 st and f or i t . I can' t because my br ot her s and si st er s

15 ar e dyi ng.

16 I ' ve got her e over 500 names, phone

17 number s, si gnat ur es, and e- mai l addr esses of ot her

18 ci t i zens, mai nl y her e i n Col or ado, t hat agr ee wi t h us,

19 agr ee wi t h me t hat put t i ng t ax dol l ar s ahead of t he

20 car e of our vet er ans i s wr ong.

21 I ' m sur e you' r e al l good peopl e. You' ve

22 exceeded i n your car eer s, out st andi ng ci t i zens.

23 Under st and, t hi s i s per sonal t o me. And any

24 oppor t uni t y you guys gi ve t o me i n t he f ut ur e, I wi l l

25 r emi nd t hese peopl e of your vot e. So vot e wi t h


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1 convi ct i on. Vot e - - be abl e t o def end your vot e.

2 But under st and, t hi s i s per sonal t o me,

3 and I wi l l be ar ound. I ' m not goi ng t o go anywher e.

4 These peopl e ar en' t goi ng anywher e. The peopl e t hat

5 si gned t hi s pet i t i on ar en' t goi ng anywher e. Al l we' r e

6 aski ng of our vet er ans i s t o par t i ci pat e i n a

7 st at e- sanct i oned medi cal pr ogr am. I t shoul dn' t be t hat

8 har d.

9 And at t hi s t i me wi t h l egal i zat i on,

10 anyone who vot es agai nst i t , anyone who t est i f i es

11 agai nst t hi s, you ar e i n suppor t of use wi t hout medi cal

12 t r eat ment , because t hat ' s what ' s happeni ng.

13 I want t o br i ng vet erans back t o t he VA.

14 The VA f or ces us t o choose one or t he ot her . And

15 vet er ans ar e gi vi ng up on t he VA. I f we add t hi s, t he

16 VA wi l l accept us and l et our vet er ans back i n, and

17 we' l l get t he care we need. Thank you.

18 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you, Mr . Evans.

19 So, Mr . Ni xon, i f you' d st ep up t o t he mi cr ophone.

20 Dor i s Gunder sen, you ar e next .

21 MR. NI XON: Good mor ni ng, Mr . Chai r ,

22 boar d members. Thank you f or consi der i ng t hi s pr oposal

23 t oday. And t hank you f or al l owi ng us t he t i me t o speak

24 i n f r ont of you. My name i s Ron Ni xon. I ' m a medi cal

25 cannabi s pat i ent . I ' m al so a pol i cy advocat e f or


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1 consumer heal t h and saf et y wher e i t comes t o cannabi s.

2 We ar e l ear ni ng mor e every day about

3 cannabi s , i t s uses , i t s medi cal possi bi l i t i es i n t hi s

4 ever changi ng l andscape of l egal i zed mar i j uana. Most

5 r ecent l y, i n J une, bot h Ti me Magazi ne and Nat i onal

6 Geogr aphi c have r epor t ed t hat r esear ch f or cannabi s

7 t hr ough t he Uni t ed St at es government has suf f ered

8 ser i ous r oadbl ocks.

9 Those r oadbl ocks pr esent ed by t he DEA, by

10 NI DA, and by FDA have pr ecl uded any r esear ch on

11 cannabi s except t hat r esear ch t hat pr ovi des f or

12 r esear chi ng i t s har ms. Cannabi s r esear ch f or medi cal

13 uses has been st r i ct l y pr ohi bi t ed i n t he Uni t ed St at es

14 by i t s gover nment si nce t he 19 - - ear l y 1970s.

15 As a r esul t , we have a gl ut of r esear ch

16 t hat i s f or med f r om syst emi c i nst i t ut i onal i zed bi as.

17 That r esear ch i n i t s ver y met hodol ogy, i n i t s ver y

18 pr omot i on i s bi ased. The end r esul t i s t hat t he

19 r esul t s ar e bi ased.

20 So what we have t oday and what you ar e

21 l ooki ng at , as f ar as r esear ch and st udi es and evi dence

22 ar e concer ned, i s a pr eponder ance of evi dence t hat i s

23 i nher ent l y bi ased. I ask you t o consi der t hat as

24 you' r e maki ng your deci si on t oday.

25 I n addi t i on t o t hose r epor t s, edi t or


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1 Ri char d Hor t on f r om Lancet has r epor t ed, and I quot e,

2 The case agai nst sci ence i s st r ai ght f or war d. Much of

3 t he sci ent i f i c l i t er at ur e, per haps hal f , may be

4 i ncor r ect . Many of t he or gani zat i ons t hat suppor t

5 Lancet are now pr omot i ng an ongoi ng i nvest i gat i on of

6 t hose pr act i ces i n an ef f or t t o change i t .

7 Knowi ng t hose f act s and t he changi ng

8 l andscape where i t comes t o r esearch wi t h r egard t o

9 medi cal mar i j uana, t oday you' r e goi ng t o hear f r om a

10 var i et y of peopl e. You' r e goi ng t o hear f r om acti vi st s

11 i n our communi t y t hat ar e f r ust r at ed by decades, si nce

12 t he 1970s, of t hese pr ohi bi t i ons on r esear ch and t he

13 sci ent i f i c l i t erat ure t hat i s ( i naudi bl e) - -

14 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: I need you t o wr ap up

15 ( i naudi bl e) .

16 MR. NI XON: Thank you. I ask you t o

17 l i st en and hear al l of t hose peopl e, advocat es,

18 pat i ent s who' ve exper i enced r el i ef f r om sympt oms and

19 have exhaust ed al l ot her opt i ons. I ask you t o make

20 your deci si on based on t he evi dence i n f r ont of you.

21 And at t he end of i t , i f you can ask your sel f - -

22 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Can you pl ease

23 wr ap i t up? Thank you.

24 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Wi l l you pl ease wr ap

25 i t up? Thank you.


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1 wi t h maki ng t he deci si on of whether or not t o add

2 post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der t o one of t he - - t he l i st

3 of debi l i t at i ng condi t i ons qual i f yi ng f or medi cal

4 mar i j uana.

5 And I have t o t el l you, as t he daught er

6 of a t hr ee- war vet er an, and as a psychi at r i st who

7 r out i nel y t r eat s pat i ent s who have been t r aumat i zed by

8 war , who have been t r aumat i zed by nat ur al di sast er s and

9 vi ci ous assaul t s, I have t o r egi st er my pr ot est t oday.

10 I t hi nk i t ' s i mpor t ant f or t he ci t i zens

11 of Col or ado t o r ecogni ze t hat onl y a smal l f r act i on of

12 physi ci ans ar e maki ng r ecommendat i ons f or medi cal

13 mar i j uana. I n f act , i t ' s f our or f i ve per cent of

14 physi ci ans i n t he st at e of Col or ado.

15 That means onl y about a handf ul of

16 doct or s - - act ual l y, t her e' s 15 doct or s i n t he st at e of

17 Col or ado maki ng 75 per cent of t he r ecommendat i ons. And

18 I want t o emphasi ze t hat t here ar e 17, 000 doct ors

19 l i censed i n t he st at e of Col or ado t o pr act i ce medi ci ne.

20 And you mi ght ask, why ar e so f ew

21 physi ci ans get t i ng on boar d wi t h mar i j uana i f , i n f act ,

22 i t i s saf e and ef f i caci ous as pr oponent s have cl ai med.

23 I can t el l you t hat t he gr eat maj or i t y of physi ci ans

24 ar e r ef r ai ni ng f r om such pr act i ce because qual i t y

25 sci ent i f i c dat a on saf et y and ef f i cacy of mar i j uana i s


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1 l acki ng.

2 And t he over whel mi ng maj or i t y of

3 physi ci ans and al l maj or medi cal or gani zat i ons,

4 i ncl udi ng t he Food and Dr ug Admi ni st r at i on, suppor t t he

5 Food and Dr ug Admi ni st r at i on' s appr oval pr ocess f or

6 i nt r oduci ng new t r eat ment s t o t he publ i c at l ar ge, and

7 r ej ect, absol ut el y r ej ect t he use of a st at e

8 l egi sl at i ve enact ment t o det er mi ne whet her a medi cat i on

9 shoul d be made avai l abl e t o pat i ent s.

10 And I have t o say what a t er r i bl e

11 pr ecedent al l of t hi s has been. Thr ough t he FDA,

12 l ar ge- scal e cont r ol l ed st udi es ar e conduct ed t o

13 el uci dat e t he pr oper t i es of a new dr ug bot h good and

14 bad.

15 And t he FDA demands t hat any new

16 t r eat ment appr oved f or t he publ i c i s st andar di zed by

17 i dent i t y, pur i t y, pot ency, qual i t y wi t h adequat e

18 di r ect i ons f or t he use and est abl i shed r i sk and benef i t

19 prof i l es .

20 I know I ' m r unni ng out of t i me. I j ust

21 want t o say t hat t he Amer i can Psychi at r i c Soci et y i s

22 unequi vocal l y opposed t o addi ng PTSD as a qual i f yi ng

23 condi t i on because t he sci ence we have as exper t s, as

24 psychi at r i st s, over whel mi ngl y demonst r at es mor e har m

25 t han good at t hi s poi nt i n t i me. Thank you f or your


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1 t i me.

2 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you.

3 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Thank you.

4 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: I woul d l i ke t o i nvi t e

5 Ter i Robnet t t o t he t abl e. Repr esent at i ve J onat han

6 Si nger i s on deck. Thank you.

7 MS. ROBNETT: Good mor ni ng. My name i s

8 Ter i Robnet t . I am t he execut i ve di r ect or and f ounder

9 of Cannabi s Pat i ent s Al l i ance. I am al so honor ed t o

10 hol d t he seat as t he pat i ent r epr esent at i ve on t he

11 Sci ent i f i c Advi sor y Counci l .

12 And I want t o t hank you f or t hat

13 oppor t uni t y, and al so, t he oppor t uni t y t oday t o be her e

14 and speak i n f r ont of you. I have enor mous r espect f or

15 t he ot her member s of t he Sci ent i f i c Advi sory Counci l ,

16 even t hose wi t h whom I di sagr ee on some poi nt s. I t

17 was - - i t ' s an amazi ng gr oup of peopl e. And I am - - I

18 am t hr i l l ed and honor ed wi t h t he wor k t hat t hey' ve done

19 and t he work t hat we' ve al l done t ogether .

20 I ' ve t hought a l ot about what I woul d

21 want t o say t o you t oday. And I want you t o know, I ' ve

22 spent t he l ast f our year s wor ki ng r eal l y har d t o br i ng

23 pat i ent s' voi ces i nt o t he conver sat i on about medi cal

24 mar i j uana. You mi ght t hi nk t hat ' s sor t of f unny, but

25 of t ent i mes pat i ent s are t al ked about , and t hey' r e not


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1 t al ked t o. So i t was - - i t ' s ver y i mpor t ant t hat

2 pat i ent s have been a par t of t hi s di scussi on. And

3 you' l l hear f r om pat i ent s t oday.

4 Why have I done t hi s? Because pat i ent s

5 mat t er . Pat i ent s' st or i es mat t er . And t her e ar e

6 numerous occasi ons when t r adi t i onal medi ci ne t akes

7 i ndi vi dual pat i ent s ' st or i es i nt o consi der at i on.

8 For exampl e, when i t comes t o of f - l abel

9 pr escr i bi ng of FDA appr oved dr ugs, onl y t wo dr ugs have

10 been appr oved by t he FDA f or t he t r eat ment of PTSD, and

11 yet , numer ous ot her dr ugs ar e used of f l abel . Al so,

12 when i t comes t o r epor t i ng adver se ef f ect s of dr ugs,

13 t hose st or i es come f r om pat i ent s and doct or s.

14 Back when I was i n col l ege, I had an

15 anat omy and physi ol ogy pr of essor t hat sai d - - used t he

16 phrase, We used t o t hi nk, but now we know. Wel l , we

17 used t o t hi nk t hat t her e was no medi cal use f or

18 mar i j uana, but now we know t hat t hat ' s not t r ue, t hat

19 t her e i s medi cal val ue.

20 We used t o t hi nk t hat peopl e consumed

21 mar i j uana j ust because t hey want ed t o get hi gh. We

22 know t hat t hat ' s not t r ue ei t her . Pat i ent s ar e get t i ng

23 enor mous r el i ef . So i n concl usi on, I j ust want you t o

24 real l y cons i der pat i ent s ' s t or i es i n t hi s . I t ' s ver y

25 i mpor t ant .


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1 Al so, consi der t he i ncredi bl e

2 del i ber at i ve t i me t hat t he Sci ent i f i c Advi sor y Counci l

3 put i nt o t hi s r ecommendat i on. And pl ease vot e i n f avor

4 of addi ng PTSD as a qual i f yi ng condi t i on. Thank you.

5 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you. Next ,

6 Repr esent at i ve J onat han Si nger . Pl ease come f orward.

7 And Dr . Chr i st i an Hageset h i s next .

8 REPRESENTATI VE SI NGER: Thank you,

9 member s of t he commi t t ee. I ' m J onat han Si nger . I ' m

10 t he St at e House r epr esent at i ve f or Longmont , Lyons, and

11 Al l enspar k i n Di st r i ct 11 her e i n Col or ado.

12 And I come t oday t o ask you t o suppor t

13 post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der as one of t he qual i f yi ng

14 condi t i ons of medi cal mar i j uana.

15 I want t o r ewi nd about t o act ual l y t he

16 begi nni ng of my l i f e i n t he next t wo mi nut es, and l et

17 you know t hat as a ki d growi ng up wi t h t wo par ent s who

18 wer e sci ent i st s, I ' m pr et t y sur e t hat I had an or gani c

19 chemi st r y set bef or e I had my f i r st set of Legos.

20 And at t he same t i me, as a pr of essi onal

21 wor ki ng i n chi l d pr ot ect i on, I had t he same sor t of

22 i mpr essi on t hat you do, t hat medi cal mar i j uana car ds

23 ar e somet i mes a l i cense t o use anywhere, anyt i me, f or

24 any r eason.

25 But we al so know and we' ve seen t hat t he


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1 qual i f yi ng condi t i ons al l owed by t he vot er s have saved

2 l i ves. Whet her you' r e t al ki ng about sei zur es or some

3 of t he ot her debi l i t at i ng condi t i ons on our medi cal

4 mar i j uana r egi st r y r i ght now, we' ve seen l i ves changed

5 and l i ves saved.

6 And i f we set t he bar so hi gh, i f we set

7 t he bar so hi gh t hat we can onl y accept what t he FDA

8 says i s r i ght , t hen none of t he condi t i ons t hat ar e

9 cur r ent l y al l owed woul d pr obabl y be al l owed by t hi s

10 Boar d t oday. So we have t o bal ance our sci ence and our

11 humani t y t oget her .

12 That ' s what t hi s i s about . I t ' s about

13 maki ng t he r i ght deci si on and maki ng sure t hat pat i ent s

14 can choose t o t al k t o a doct or bef or e t hey t al k t o a

15 di spensar y owner .

16 Thi s i sn' t f or ever ybody. Mar i j uana can

17 pr obabl y make t hi ngs worse f or some suf f erer s of

18 post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der . But at t he end of t he

19 day, we need t o do t he r i ght t hi ng f or our pat i ent s.

20 As a chi l d wel f ar e wor ker , I t ook dr ast i c

21 st eps t o pr ot ect ki ds. Some of t hose dr ast i c st eps

22 even i ncl uded t aki ng away ki ds f r om par ent s wi t h

23 medi cal mar i j uana car ds when t hey wer e usi ng unsaf el y

24 ar ound t hei r ki ds.

25 Ther e i sn' t a l i cense t o use ever ywher e,


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1 ever y t i me, i n ever y pl ace. That ' s not what r ed car ds

2 ar e f or . Ther e' s a t i me and t her e' s a pl ace t o put

3 PTSD out t her e and make sure t hi s i s a cover ed

4 qual i f i ed condi t i on. Thi s i s t he t i me and pl ace f or

5 t hi s, t o make sur e t hat pat i ent s don' t have t o choose

6 bet ween doct or s or bud t ender s.

7 And wi t h t hat , I want t o t hank you f or

8 your t i me. And I st and f or any quest i ons.


10 Dr . Chr i st i an Hageset h. Next i s Mat t hew Kahl , so be

11 r eady t o be cal l ed.

12 DR. HAGESETH: I appr eci at e t he Boar d

13 gi vi ng me t he oppor t uni t y t o speak. My name i s

14 Chr i st i an Hageset h, I I I . I am an M. D. and a boar d

15 cer t i f i ed psychi at r i s t . I pr act i ced i n For t Col l i ns

16 f r om 1979 t o 2005.

17 To go back on some of my qual i f i cat i ons

18 f or addr essi ng you i s, I vol unt eer ed f or mi l i t ar y

19 ser vi ce dur i ng t he Vi et nam War as I compl eted medi cal

20 school . I went t o t he Naval Aerospace Medi cal

21 I nst i t ut e wher e I became a desi gnat ed naval f l i ght

22 sur geon.

23 I spent my t i me pr i mar i l y wi t h t he Mar i ne

24 Corps. And I encount er ed PTSD at t hat t i me, si nce much

25 of my wor k - - my shake, by t he way, i s I have


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1 Par ki nson' s di sease, and so don' t be upset .

2 I di d t ake car e of pi l ot s and cr ew

3 member s who had had ser i ous probl ems, and deal t wi t h

4 t hem whi l e I was t her e. Then I speci al i zed i n

5 psychi at r y. And i n t he ' 80s and ' 90s I became a go- t o

6 person f or Vi et nam vet erans who no l onger want ed t o

7 have anyt hi ng t o do wi t h t he VA.

8 And t hey val ued t he f act t hat t hey coul d

9 see a physi ci an who al so had vol unt eer ed f or and ser ved

10 f i ve and a hal f year s i n t he mi l i t ar y. I l ef t t he

11 mi l i t ar y wi t h t he r ank of l i eut enant commander i n t he

12 Navy.

13 At t hi s t i me I became i nt er est ed i n

14 cannabi s pr i mar i l y f or mysel f about f i ve year s ago, as

15 I was di agnosed wi t h Par ki nson' s di sease. I ' ve spent

16 t he l ast t hr ee year s exami ni ng how cannabi s may wor k.

17 I t i s not cur r ent l y i n t hi s st at e an appr oved

18 condi t i on.

19 I ' ve j oi ned t he Soci et y of Cannabi s

20 Cl i ni ci ans, whi ch pr ovi des post gr aduat e medi cal

21 educat i on f or physi ci ans. And I ' d say t he one t hi ng

22 r i ght now t hat ' s gr eat l y l acki ng i s physi ci ans ar e not

23 r ecei vi ng any syst emat i c educat i on i n t he use of

24 cannabi s at al l . And t her e i s educat i on avai l abl e.

25 And a mot t o t hat I have, i t ' s not as easy


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1 as smoki ng a j oi nt or eat i ng a br owni e. The mode of

2 admi ni st r at i on i s cr i t i cal . And number one, medi cal

3 super vi si on shoul d i ncl ude dosage t i t r at i on, CBD: THC

4 r at i os, and t hen r out e of admi ni st r at i on.

5 For exampl e, smoki ng i s pr obabl y one of

6 t he poor er ways t o do i t . And edi bl es i s absol ut el y

7 t he wor st unl ess you have cer t ai n t hi ngs you need. And

8 t r ansder mal appl i cat i ons and such ar e goi ng t o be t he

9 f ut ur e. That i s goi ng t o al l ow meani ngf ul r esear ch t o

10 happen.

11 I ask t hat you gi ve t he vet er ans di gni t y

12 by al l owi ng t hi s t o be a condi t i on t hat i s appr oved,

13 because many of t hem f eel pr ej udi ced agai nst . Thank

14 you.


16 Mat t hew Kahl , can you come t o t he mi cr ophone.

17 Dr . Pet er Pr yor i s next . Thank you.

18 MR. KAHL: Fi r st of al l , t hank you t o t he

19 Boar d f or al l owi ng me t o speak. Hi , my name i s

20 Mat t hew Kahl . I ' m a vet er an of t he U. S. Ar my, 101st

21 Ai r bor ne I nf ant r y. You mi ght r ecogni ze me. I

22 submi t t ed wr i t t en t est i mony ear l i er .

23 I ' m r eal l y up her e t o show you what a

24 vet er an can l ook l i ke af t er a f ul l year of mar i j uana

25 t her apy. I ' m no l onger unshaven, unkempt , and


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1 di shevel l ed.

2 You may t hi nk I ' m up her e f i ght i ng f or

3 mysel f , but you' d be absol ut el y wr ong. Thi s i s my

4 f ami l y. I ' m r eal l y f i ght i ng f or t hem. They' r e t he

5 r eal r eason t hat I ' m doi ng t hi s. Thi s i s t he hi dden

6 f ace of PTSD, and t hi s i s t he cost .

7 Thi s i s my boy. He' s my son. And I ' m

8 r eal l y, r eal l y pr oud of hi m. He' s been t hr ough so

9 much. He' s hel d my l i mp hand af t er I t r i ed t o f i nd a

10 way out of t hi s pr obl em. And I can' t apol ogi ze t o hi m

11 enough f or t hat . But I can f i ght f or t hi s al t er nat i ve

12 f or ever y ot her ki d j ust l i ke hi m who want s hi s daddy

13 or mommy back.

14 I have t o apol ogi ze, t hi s has been a

15 r eal l y - - par t i cul ar l y har d l ast coupl e mont hs f or me.

16 I st opped eat i ng at some poi nt . I l ost about 15 pounds

17 i n about a mont h. And t hat ' s pret t y common wi t h PTSD.

18 Thr ee men I per sonal l y ser ved wi t h i n t he f i r st 506

19 i nf ant r y bat t al i on f r om 2007 t o 2011 have di ed i n t he

20 l ast si x mont hs al one f r om t he scour ge of PTSD and

21 sui ci de.

22 I don' t know why t hey keep dyi ng, I

23 r eal l y don' t . But how do you t hi nk t hat l ooks i f you

24 ext r apol at e t hat ser vi cewi de? I t ' s at l east 22 a day,

25 pr obabl y cl oser t o 50. And i t ' s an absol ut e at r oci t y.


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1 I t ' s cl oser t o 112 sui ci des a day i n t he Uni t ed St at es

2 t ot al , i nc l udi ng c i vi l i ans. And I chal l enge you t o

3 f i nd me one t hat wasn' t due t o t r auma. Don' t we have a

4 mor al obl i gat i on t o save t hem i f we can, and shoul dn' t

5 we t r y?

6 I ' ve t r i ed al l your t her api es,

7 ant i depr essant s, angi ol yt i cs, ant i psychot i cs, mood

8 st abi l i zer s, EMDR, CBT, t al k t her apy, gr oup t her apy,

9 exposur e t her apy, you name i t , not j ust a l i t t l e, but

10 years and years and years of i t . I was such a zombi e

11 on t r adi t i onal psychi at r i c medi ci nes t hat I coul d not

12 heal no mat t er what t hey di d t o me.

13 Al l t he al l egat i ons t hat you make about

14 cannabi s i s act ual l y t r ue of t he psychoact i ve

15 medi cat i ons t hat ar e pr escr i bed f or PTSD now. I know

16 t hat t hi s wor ks f or me, and not hi ng el se ever di d.

17 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: You need t o wr ap up.

18 MR. KAHL: I f t hi s i s a pl acebo ef f ect ,

19 I ' l l t ake i t over al l of your t oxi c psychi at r i c

20 medi cat i ons any day and every day. You can hel p f i x

21 t he wr ongs done t o t hi s boy and t o so many ot her boys

22 j ust l i ke hi m al l acr oss t he Uni t ed St at es by al l owi ng

23 f at her s l i ke me t o use t hi s pl an - -

24 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Can you pl ease wr ap

25 up?


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1 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Can you pl ease

2 wr ap up?

3 MR. KAHL: - - as medi ci ne t oday. Thank

4 you.


6 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you ver y much.

7 Dr . Pet er - - t hank you. Dr . Pet er Pr yor .

8 And Sebast i an Cot t e I bel i eve i s next .

9 DR. PRYOR: Hel l o. Thank you f or

10 al l owi ng me t o be here. My name i s Pet er Pr yor . I am

11 CEO of Doc Mor r i son. I ' ve been eval uat i ng pat i ent s f or

12 medi cal mar i j uana f or t he past year and a hal f .

13 I ' m boar d cer t i f i ed i n emer gency

14 medi ci ne, and have worked si x years at Denver Heal t h i n

15 t he emer gency depar t ment as an assi st ant pr of essor

16 t r ai ni ng t he next gener at i on of emer gency physi ci ans.

17 I was al so t he medi cal di r ect or f or t he Denver Heal t h

18 par amedi c school f or f our year s.

19 I woul d l i ke t o submi t ver bal t est i mony

20 st r ongl y suppor t i ng post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der bei ng

21 added t o t he qual i f yi ng medi cal condi t i ons f or whi ch I

22 can r ecommend medi cal mar i j uana.

23 I have been eval uat i ng mor e t han 30

24 pat i ent s wi t h PTSD over t he past year . I si ncer el y

25 bel i eve t hat medi cal mar i j uana benef i t s peopl e who have


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1 exper i enced si t uat i ons and envi r onment s - - sor r y - - not

2 common t o your aver age per son.

3 Why not j ust send t hese peopl e wi t h PTSD

4 t o r ecr eat i onal mar i j uana? The suggest i on has been

5 t hat t hi s coul d be consi der ed over t he count er . Thi s

6 seems a bi t i nsul t i ng. Why put t he st i gma of bei ng a

7 r ecr eat i onal user on peopl e who have suf f er ed

8 l i f e- changi ng envi r onment s and exper i ences.

9 Al so, bei ng a medi cal mar i j uana pat i ent

10 al l ows peopl e t o get a hi gher concent r at i on of edi bl es.

11 Recr eat i onal l y, t he l ar gest concent r at i ons of edi bl es

12 i s r est r i ct ed t o a hundr ed mi l l i gr ams of THC. Medi cal

13 mar i j uana al l ows up t o 300 mi l l i gr ams of THC.

14 Medi cal mar i j uana pat i ent s r equi r i ng

15 doses of over a hundr ed mi l l i gr ams of THC woul d have t o

16 eat a l arge vol ume of f ood i n order t o consume thei r

17 medi cat i on. I magi ne i f ever y 200- mi l l i gr am Mot r i n was

18 t he si ze of a pi ece of pi zza.

19 Ther e' s r ecent pol i cy, dat ed 4- 2- 15,

20 t i t l ed , Physi ci an Ref er r al s t o t he Depar t ment of

21 Regul at or y Agenci es, Medi cal Boar d Depar t ment

22 Sanct i ons. Thi s pol i cy r est r i ct s t he number of

23 pat i ent s a medi cal mar i j uana physi ci an can see over t he

24 cour se of a year , as wel l i t f ur t her r est r i cts t he

25 number of pat i ent s I can see under t he age of 30.


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1 Thi s pol i cy has f or ced me t o st op seei ng

2 pat i ent s under t he age of 30 compl et el y si nce Apr i l .

3 Cur r ent l y I ' m t ur ni ng 5 t o 10 peopl e away a day under

4 t he age of 30 wi t hout aski ng why, j ust because of age.

5 The pol i cy has f orced me t o choose

6 bet ween one pat i ent and anot her . How wi l l we deci de

7 whom t o choose, whom i s s i cker , who can pay mor e?

8 Peopl e are comi ng t o me l ooki ng f or hope. Pl ease hel p

9 me underst and whi ch pat i ent I can hel p.

10 I n a t i me when Col or ado - - t he r est of

11 t he wor l d i s l ooki ng at Col orado t o see how we

12 pr ogr ess, I bel i eve t hat t hi s i s not t he t i me t o t r eat

13 pat i ent s or physi ci ans as i f t hey' r e t aki ng advant age

14 or cheat i ng t he syst em.

15 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: We need you t o wr ap

16 up.

17 DR. PRYOR: We ar e j ust begi nni ng t o

18 l ear n t he many benef i t s of medi cal mar i j uana. I woul d

19 l i ke t o encour age t he unbi ased and t hought f ul

20 eval uat i on of t he good and t he bad t hat come wi t h

21 medi cal mar i j uana. Thank you very much.

22 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you, Dr . Pr yor .

23 Sebast i an Cot t e, pl ease come t o t he mi cr ophone.

24 St even Set h McBr i de i s next .

25 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: ( I naudi bl e)


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1 Sebast i an.

2 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: Oh, okay. Excuse

3 me, I apol ogi ze. So St even Set h McBr i de.

4 MR. McBRI DE: Hel l o, I go by

5 Set h McBr i de. I ' m a 32- year - ol d combat vet of OI F, and

6 t he pr esi dent of a nonpr of i t cal l ed t he For got t en

7 I nf i del s, whi ch i s a vet er an- based or gani zat i on hel pi ng

8 vet s out of our pocket s doi ng what we can t o suppor t

9 t he needs of vet s acr oss t he count r y.

10 I , mysel f , have a sever e di sabi l i t y

11 r at i ng of PTSD f r om t he mi l i t ar y, as wel l as chi l dhood

12 act i ons. Ther e' s been a l ot of good poi nt s her e t oday.

13 22 vet er ans a day commi t sui ci de, some f r om

14 post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der , some f r om ot her t hi ngs.

15 One act i ve dut y mi l i t ar y commi t s sui ci de a day as wel l .

16 For me, PTSD has i mpact ed my l i f e

17 gr eat l y, wi t h my ki ds, my f ami l y, ever yt hi ng I do. I

18 haven' t been abl e t o go out i n publ i c. I haven' t been

19 abl e t o come t o publ i c pl aces. Event s l i ke t hi s woul d

20 scar e t he hel l out of me most of t he t i mes. I woul dn' t

21 be abl e t o be her e i f i t wer e not f or medi cal cannabi s.

22 Ther e' s al so been val i d poi nt s about

23 bei ng honest and open wi t h our doct ors, havi ng honest ,

24 open conver sat i ons wi t h t hem about our condi t i on and

25 car e i nst ead of havi ng t o go pay r et ai l .


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1 My addr ess t o t hat , about r et ai l cannabi s

2 bei ng avai l abl e, i s t hat as a combat vet er an and a

3 vet er an of t he Uni t ed St at es, why shoul d I have t o pay

4 a hi gher t ax r at e f or medi cat i on t hat deepl y hel ps me

5 spend t i me wi t h my f ami l y, spend t i me wi t h my f r i ends,

6 and come t o pl aces l i ke t hi s and speak i n f r ont of

7 peopl e.

8 Medi cal cannabi s t r ul y hel ps a l ot of us

9 i n many ways. And I ' m not goi ng t o t ake up much mor e

10 of your t i me because I don' t r eal l y have much t o say

11 t hat i s - - t hat , f or me, a vet er an, a l ocal Col or ado

12 ki d, a nat i ve of Col or ado, pr oud t o be i n a pr ogr essi ve

13 st at e i n our medi ci ne f i el d.

14 I al so worked i n Denver t wo years as an

15 EMT. And our medi ci ne i s so much mor e advanced t han

16 ot her pl aces, l i ke New Yor k and t he east er n coast , we

17 ar e so much mor e advanced, peopl e l ook t o us and our

18 advancement s i n t he medi ci ne, advancement s i n t he

19 medi cal f i el d.

20 And i f we' r e t r ul y Amer i can f r ee peopl e,

21 t hen we shoul d have t r ue f r ee car e, medi cal car e f or

22 pr escr i pt i ons t hat hel p us not have t o go and choose

23 what - - l i ke, pi l l s and t hi ngs l i ke t hat , t hat f or me

24 have made me want t o ki l l mysel f mor e, have put me i n

25 ment al i nst i t ut i ons, and have pr et t y much handcuf f ed me


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1 f r om havi ng an or di nar y l i f e l i ke ever ybody el se.

2 Medi cal cannabi s t r ul y does hel p vet er ans

3 and anybody wi t h PTSD. I t ' s pr oven. I t ' s document ed,

4 and shoul d be appr oved and put on t he medi cal condi t i on

5 l i st . Agai n, i f we ar e t r ul y f r ee Amer i can peopl e,

6 t hen we shoul d have t r ue f r ee access t o pr escr i pt i ons

7 t hat hel p us and have open conver sat i ons wi t h our

8 doct or . Thank you.

9 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Lor yl McBr i de.

10 Mi guel Tul l y i s af t er Lor yl .

11 MS. McBRI DE: Hi . As Set h' s wi f e, I see

12 hi m ver y i l l , ver y depr essed, and can snap ver y qui ckl y

13 whi l e he i s not medi cat ed on cannabi s.

14 Wi t h hi s PTSD f r om I r aq, t hi s l i f esty l e

15 i s somet hi ng ver y di f f i cul t t o l i ve wi t h, f i ght i ng t he

16 sui ci dal i deat i ons dai l y. Al so, he does not do wel l

17 ar ound a l ot of peopl e.

18 One of t he bi ggest i ssues are sounds.

19 When t her e i s t oo much noi se, he st ar t s t o pani c. Thi s

20 coul d be t al ki ng, ki d sounds, out door noi se, et cet er a.

21 Fast - paced noi se, hi gh pi t ch t ones, and l oud booms

22 i nst ant l y send hi m i nt o pani c mode i f he i s not

23 medi cat ed wi t h cannabi s.

24 As soon as he t akes medi cal mar i j uana, he

25 i s cal m, hi s PTSD i s down, hi s anxi et y i s ver y l ow, and


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1 t he sui ci dal t hought s ar e mi ni mal . Bei ng on medi cal

2 mar i j uana cal ms hi s PTSD t o wher e he can be t hat great

3 daddy and husband t hat he l oves t o be, and st eppi ng up

4 f or t hose vet er ans who ar e st r uggl i ng wi t hi n our

5 or gani zat i on.

6 Wi t hi n mysel f , I have PTSD as wel l f r om

7 chi l dhood sexual t r auma. I di d not use mar i j uana unt i l

8 t wo years ago. At t hat t i me I was on 13 medi cat i ons a

9 day, al l mess i ng wi t h my ment al st at e, whi ch l ed me t o

10 at t empt sui ci de.

11 Af t er my at t empt , my doct or s t al ked t o me

12 about medi cal mar i j uana use f or al l of my heal t h i ssues

13 i ncl udi ng PTSD, f i br omyal gi a, and col i t i s. Now bei ng a

14 medi cal pat i ent f or t wo year s, I ' m onl y on one

15 medi cat i on a day. My PTSD, my emot i ons, and ot her

16 heal t h i ssues ar e al l under cont r ol mor e now t han ever

17 bef or e on al l of t hose meds.

18 But most i mpor t ant l y, I ' m har dl y

19 depr essed. I har dl y ever have anxi et y. And I never

20 have t he ur ge t o t r y t o t ake my l i f e. Medi cal

21 mar i j uana has been t he best f or m of medi cat i on f or our

22 ment al i ssues. And I ' m happy t hat I have f i nal l y t r i ed

23 i t , because ul t i mat el y t hi s i s what hel ps us cont r ol

24 our PTSD, whi ch t hen al l ows us t o hel p so many ot her

25 vet er ans.


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1 Pl ease add PTSD t o t he appr oved l i st of

2 heal t h i ssues t o al l ow PTSD pat i ent s t o t ake medi cal

3 mar i j uana t o get t he best heal t hcar e t hat we al l

4 deser ve.

5 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Mi guel Tul l y.

6 J ames Guenar d, I bel i eve, i s af t er Mi guel .

7 MR. TULLY: Good mor ni ng, Mr . Chai r man

8 and member s of t he boar d. My name i s Mi guel Tul l y.

9 I ' m an Ar my i nf ant r y vet er an, f ounder of GI Gr eens,

10 cochai r on t he vet erans commi t t ee f or t he Amer i can

11 Medi cal Ref ugees Foundat i on.

12 I bel i eve t hat t he SSRI dr ugs pr escr i bed

13 t o me ( i naudi bl e) by pr of essi onal s f or year s have

14 caused me harm. I bel i eve t hat cogni t i ve and exposur e

15 t her apy t o be cr uci al f act or s i n my car e f or PTSD. For

16 mysel f and ot her combat vet er ans, i t i s di f f i cul t t o

17 conf r ont t hese necessar y means of t her apy, as t her e ar e

18 physi cal l y debi l i t at i ng sympt oms i n PTSD.

19 Cannabi s has been bot h ef f ect i ve i n

20 al l evi at i ng my physi cal sympt oms, al l owi ng me t o

21 cont i nue my heal i ng. And I ask t he Board t o appr ove

22 t he mot i on t o add post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der as a

23 condi t i on f or qual i f yi ng f or medi cal mar i j uana so t hat

24 r et ur ni ng vet er ans can honest l y t r eat t hei r condi t i ons,

25 physi cal l y al l evi at e t hei r sympt oms of war , and t o


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1 pur sue t her apy and cul t i vat i on of mar i j uana.

2 Thank you ver y much.


4 J ames Guenar d. I bel i eve Sue Si sl ey i s next .

5 MR. GUENARD: Good mor ni ng. My name i s

6 J ames Guenar d. I ' m a sol di er , vet er an of t he

7 U. S. Ar my. I say t hat I am a sol di er , not a f or mer

8 sol di er , because I s t i l l have a mi ssi on. I ' m st i l l

9 wor ki ng f or my br ot her s and si st er s. Many of t hem ar e

10 si t t i ng out her e i n f r ont of you t oday.

11 We al l have di f f er ent pr obl ems, PTSD

12 pr obabl y one of t he bi ggest . One i n f i ve vet s ri ght

13 now comes home i s PTSD. I t changes your l i f e.

14 Many of you mi ght have had event s i n your

15 l i f e t hat have st uck wi t h you and ki nd of r ul e your

16 day- t o- day deci si ons. PTSD i s t hat f or us. I was 26

17 when I got out of t he Ar my. I was t aki ng 240 pi l l s a

18 day. Wasn' t get t i ng any bet t er . As a mat t er of f act ,

19 I was get t i ng wor se. I dr opped out of col l ege, l ost

20 t ouch wi t h my f ami l y.

21 Moved t o Col or ado f our year s ago. I ' ve

22 got t hr ee degr ees now. I ' m hel pi ng ot her vet er ans get

23 t he hel p t hat t hey need, and i t ' s not t hr ough pi l l s

24 f r om t he VA.

25 I bel i eve i n t hi s. I wor k f or Gr ow For


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1 MS. SI SLEY: My name i s Sue Si sl ey. I ' m

2 t he - - I ' m one of t he pr i nci pal i nvest i gat or s on t he

3 onl y r andomi zed cont r ol l ed t r i al l ooki ng at whol e pl ant

4 mar i j uana f or PTSD.

5 I want t o emphasi ze t he accur acy of t he

6 st at ement made ear l i er about t he dat a bei ng about

7 f our year s away. Fi r st l et me expr ess how gr at ef ul we

8 were t o be one of t he ni ne Col orado gr ant s awarded i n

9 December .

10 Sadl y, we woul d have l oved t o have

11 i mpl ement ed our st udy i n December , but we coul d not

12 obt ai n mar i j uana. Now we' r e wai t i ng 16 mont hs f or NI DA

13 t o act ual l y sel l us t he mar i j uana we need t o conduct

14 t hi s r esear ch. So i t ' s i mpor t ant t o know t he bar r i er s

15 t hat cont i nue t o be i n f r ont of us and why t hi s dat a i s

16 r eal l y f our year s away.

17 NI DA, t he Nat i onal I nst i t ut e on Dr ug

18 Abuse, has a government - enf or ced monopol y on t he onl y

19 f eder al l y l egal suppl y of mar i j uana f or t hese t ype of

20 FDA appr oved t r i al s. So t he st udy t akes t wo year s.

21 The dat a anal ysi s t akes about si x mont hs. I t ' s anot her

22 year t o go t hr ough t he peer - r evi ew pr ocess wi t h

23 r espect ed medi cal j our nal s, so t hat ' s why you can see

24 f our year s i s a r easonabl e est i mat e.

25 I t hi nk i t ' s - - t he quest i on i s : Ar e we


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1 r eal l y wi l l i ng t o make PTSD suf f er er s wai t f our year s

2 t o have saf e, l egal access t o speci al l y f or mul at ed

3 l ab- t est ed mar i j uana? And I woul d ur ge you t o consi der

4 t he Dr . Gr eer st udy agai n, t hat I submi t t ed i n t he

5 wr i t t en document s, t hat r ei t er at es t he f act t hat t her e

6 i s evi dence even - - i t ' s an obser vat i onal st udy, but i t

7 was publ i shed i n a peer - r evi ewed j our nal t hat showed a

8 75- per cent r educt i on i n CAP scor es, whi ch i s t he gol d

9 st andar d used by t he FDA t o measur e sever i t y of PTSD.

10 That was such a compel l i ng st udy, t hat i t

11 persuaded our own heal t h depar t ment di r ect or i n Ar i zona

12 t o add PTSD, and Ar i zona became t he ni nt h st at e t o add.

13 I t hi nk now t her e ar e 11 st at es t hat ar e added. So at

14 l east you' r e not t he f i r st . Ther e ar e many, you know,

15 r espect abl e st at es i n t hi s count r y t hat have had t he

16 cour age t o do t he r i ght t hi ng her e. Thank you.

17 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Ms. Si sl ey, I have a

18 quest i on f or you.

19 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: I do t oo.

20 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you f or your

21 r esear ch i n t er ms of what you' r e doi ng. I t ' s r eal l y

22 hel pi ng us make deci si ons. What i s your pr oj ect now or

23 st udy? What are you l ooki ng at ?

24 MS. SI SLEY: We' r e spl i t t i ng t he pr ot ocol

25 i n or der t o i mpr ove t he dat a. We' r e cr eat i ng t wo


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1 i ndependent si t es. So t her e' s goi ng t o be one si t e i n

2 Scot t sdal e, Ar i zona, and anot her si t e at J ohns Hopki ns

3 Uni ver si t y. So we' l l be enr ol l i ng 38 mi l i t ar y vet er ans

4 at each si t e.

5 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: So you ar e st udyi ng

6 t he ef f ect s of PTSD?

7 MS. SI SLEY: Yeah. We' r e f ocusi ng on

8 vet er ans, l ooki ng at f our di f f er ent st r ai ns. And i t ' s

9 i mpor t ant t o know t hat t wo of t he st r ai ns we' r e l ooki ng

10 at ar e CBD- r i ch mar i j uana. That was an essent i al par t

11 of our pr ot ocol . That ' s t he exact mar i j uana t hat you

12 can' t r eal l y buy on t he rec si de her e.

13 But t hat ' s par t of our hypot hesi s, t hat

14 we bel i eve - - af t er a mount ai n of anecdot al r epor t s

15 f r om vet s, we bel i eve t hat CBD- r i ch mar i j uana may have

16 mor e benef i t f or PTSD. And i f i t ' s not avai l abl e on

17 t he r ec si de, anot her exampl e of why t hi s needs t o be

18 added.

19 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you. We have

20 anot her quest i on.

21 UNI DENTI FI ED SPEAKER: My quest i on was

22 about t he st r ai ns. And maybe you di d answer i t . You

23 sai d t her e' s f our di f f er ent ones. Ar e you goi ng t o be

24 l ooki ng at sat i va or i ndi ca or al l of t hem?

25 MS. SI SLEY: Yeah, good quest i on, yeah.


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1 t hr ee mont hs. But , unf or t unat el y, we have t o wai t f or

2 NI DA. And 16 mont hs l at er we st i l l have no t i mel i ne

3 f r om t hem about when st udy dr ug wi l l be avai l abl e.

4 So t hat ' s - - I ' m hopi ng t hat event ual l y

5 t hi s boar d wi l l become act i ve i n ur gi ng t he f eder al

6 gover nment t o r econsi der t hi s NI DA monopol y, because I

7 t hi nk t hat i t ' s cl ear l y i mpedi ng t he ver y st udi es t hat

8 you have so generousl y and wi sel y i nvest ed i n.

9 Ther e' s t hr ee st udi es t hat r equi r e NI DA

10 mar i j uana i n your grant pr oj ect . And t hose t hr ee

11 st udi es ar e goi ng t o have - - you know, we' ve been

12 navi gat i ng t hese bar r i er s f or f i ve year s now, and i t

13 l ooks l i ke we won' t be abl e t o get under way unt i l - -

14 you know, we' l l be l ucky i f we get under way by t he end

15 of t he year , so . . .

16 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Thank you. We l ook

17 f or war d t o your r esul t s.

18 MS. SI SLEY: Thank you so much.

19 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Gr eg Dur an. And

20 Wi l l i am A. - - you' l l excuse me - - what i s t hat ?

21 MR. CHENGELI S: Chengel i s.


23 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Chengel i s, okay.

24 MR. DURAN: Hel l o. My name i s

25 Gr eg Dur an. And I ' m honor ed t o be abl e t o speak i n


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1 f r ont of you. I have a coupl e of t hi ngs. I ' ve changed

2 my t est i mony a coupl e t i mes because t her e' s so much

3 t hat I want t o say.

4 One of t he t hi ngs t hat we' ve been doi ng

5 i s worki ng on t he cannabi s medi cal si de f or a number of

6 year s and l i st eni ng t o peopl e. And dur i ng t hat , dur i ng

7 t he cour se of what we' r e doi ng, we' ve sor t of been t he

8 peopl e t hat peopl e have - - t hat cont i nuousl y reach out

9 t o us. And I sor t of speci al i ze i n vet s. And a l ot of

10 vet s come t o me. And t hi s i s ver y emot i onal t o me as

11 bei ng a vet .

12 And I hear t hese guys comi ng t o me. And

13 I hear t hei r st or i es. They speak t o me i n ways t hat I

14 can' t even begi n t o t el l you, but t he success t hat I ' ve

15 seen f r om t hese guys t hat had no hope.

16 Peopl e ar e comi ng here t o Col orado f or

17 hope. And what t hat means i s t hey' r e l ooki ng f or a

18 sol ut i on t hat ' s goi ng t o be par t of t he puzzl e t hey' r e

19 t r yi ng t o put t oget her t o get back t o t hei r nor mal

20 l i ves .

21 Col or ado needs t o l ead t hi s. We can' t

22 l et ot her st at es l ead t hi s when t hey don' t even have

23 t he hope t hat we have. Peopl e ar e comi ng her e and

24 t hey' r e aski ng f or hel p. We have t o pr ovi de t hat hel p

25 t o t hem t he best we can. And one of t he ways i s


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1 t hr ough cannabi s.

2 I t ' s not t he compl et e answer . Ther e' s

3 many t hi ngs t hat we can do as Col or adoans as a st at e.

4 But what we can do i s we can t el l t hese guys, we

5 bel i eve i n you, and wel come home.

6 And one of t he t hi ngs t hat wel come home

7 means, t he f r eedom t o make t he choi ce on how t hey

8 medi cat e and what t hey do f or t hei r medi cat i on. And

9 t he mi r acl es t hat I ' ve seen and t he bags of

10 phar maceut i cal s t hat t hese guys have been exposed t o,

11 t hi ngs t hat ar e causi ng t hem har m, maki ng t hem want t o

12 ki l l t hemsel ves, t hat ' s t he one t hi ng t hat peopl e ar e

13 most concer ned about her e.

14 I wonder about some of t he t hi ngs t hat

15 you hear , sayi ng t hat t her e' s unsur mount abl e evi dence

16 t hat i t causes har m. I haven' t seen any. Al l I saw

17 was one st udy t hat was - - or at a conf erence t hat was

18 gi ven. Ther e i s no dat a f or t hi s. We have t o be t he

19 ones t hat ar e col l ect i ng t he dat a.

20 I t i s our r esponsi bi l i t y her e i n Col or ado

21 t o put al l t he pi eces of t hi s puzzl e t oget her and t o

22 f i nd what t hi s does, what we need t o do, how t hese guys

23 can f i nd a sol ut i on so we can spr ead t hat i nf or mat i on

24 not j ust t o Col or ado, t o t he r est of t he wor l d.

25 We ar e under t he mi cr oscope. Thi s r oom


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1 i s under t he mi cr oscope. We' r e wat chi ng. Wi l l

2 Col or ado do t he r i ght t hi ng? I encour age you, I ur ge

3 you, add t hi s t o t he l i st so we can be honest wi t h our

4 doct ors and we can act ual l y cr eat e somet hi ng t hat t he

5 r est of t he wor l d uses as an exampl e. Thank you.


7 Wi l l i am Chengel i s. And St eve Ot er o, you ar e next .

8 MR. CHENGELI S: Good mor ni ng, t hank you

9 f or havi ng me speak. My name i s Wi l l i am Chengel i s.

10 I ' m chai r man of t he Uni t ed St at es Mar i j uana Par t y. I ' m

11 a Vi etnam er a vet eran. I ' ve never had combat PTSD.

12 But i n 2003 I r ol l ed a car end t o end

13 over si x t i mes, and r ecei ved a sever e concuss i on.

14 Because of t hat concussi on, I st ar t ed havi ng f l ashbacks

15 about t he car acci dent . I sought hel p wi t h t he VA, sat

16 i n PTSD gr oups f or t hr ee year s t o f i gur e out t hat I ' ve

17 had PTSD al l my l i f e because I was a pr emi e and spent

18 t hr ee weeks i n an i ncubat or and never bonded wi t h my

19 mot her .

20 I t ' s i mpor t ant t hat you add t hi s t o t he

21 r egi st r y. I t wi l l hel p peopl e. I t wi l l hel p women

22 t hat have been bat t er ed. I t wi l l hel p vet er ans. I t

23 wi l l hel p anybody t hat ' s been i n car acci dent s. I t

24 hel ped me. Pl ease vot e yes on t hi s. Thank you.

25 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: St eve Ot er o, can you


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1 come t o t he mi cr ophone. Chr i s Lat ona, I bel i eve, i s

2 next .

3 MR. OTERO: Sor r y, I ' m a l i t t l e sl ow.

4 I ' ve got a coupl e 3- year - ol ds wi t h me. I ' m usual l y a

5 st ay- at - home dad, so I ' ve got t o j uggl e qui t e a bi t .

6 CHAI RMAN ESTACI O: Okay.

7 MR. OTERO: I pr omi se I won' t t ake up

8 mor e t han t wo mi nut es. My name i s St eve Ot er o. These

9 ar e my chi l dr en, Dust i n and Sophi a. They' r e 3- year - ol d

10 t wi ns.

11 I was f i r st di agnosed wi t h post t r aumat i c

12 st r ess di sor der when I came back f r om my f i r st

13 depl oyment t o I r aq i n 2008. I have t wo combat

14 depl oyment s under my bel t . I was a combat

15 phot ogr apher , r out i nel y i mbedded i n Ar my and Mar i ne

16 Cor ps uni t s al l acr oss I r aq and Af ghani st an.

17 My depl oyment manager asked me bef or e I

18 l ef t t he second t i me, he sai d, St eve, where do you want

19 t o go? And I sai d, Wel l , wher e ar e peopl e dyi ng? And

20 he sent me t her e because t hat ' s wher e I want ed t o go.

21 Because i n my br ai n, even t hough I ' d al r eady been

22 di agnosed wi t h PTSD, I t hought i n or der t o heal , I

23 needed t o get back i nt o t he f i ght .

24 Li ke most of my br ot her s and si st er s, we

25 want t o be i n t he f i ght . And t hose of us t hat have


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1 enj oyed bei ng i nf ant r y or gr ound pounders ar e ki nd of

2 addi ct ed, I t hi nk, t o adr enal i ne, whi ch i s one of t he

3 most addi ct i ve subst ances on t he pl anet .

4 The one t hi ng t hat di f f er ent i at es f r om

5 any ot her vet er an i n t hi s count r y i s t hat I ' m actual l y

6 t he f i r st ever honor abl y di schar ged vet er an who openl y

7 consumed cannabi s whi l e I was st i l l on act i ve dut y.

8 I was a st af f ser geant i n t he U. S. Ai r

9 For ce. I was i n Ger many. I was pr act i ci ng t aki ng my

10 own l i f e. My f r i end, who was a ci vi l i an, came i n t o my

11 gar age, caught me st andi ng on a st ool wi t h a noose

12 ar ound my neck. He of f ered me a j oi nt . And I sai d,

13 You know what , I ' m goi ng t o di e anyway, so I mi ght as

14 wel l go ahead and consume t hi s t oni ght , and maybe I ' l l

15 get some f r i cki n sl eep. Guess what , I di d.

16 Two year s l at er I was di schar ged. I went

17 i n f r ont of a medi cal - - I went i n f r ont of a r evi ew

18 boar d t hat had t o det er mi ne t he qual i t y of my ser vi ce.

19 Thankf ul l y af t er j ust st at i ng t he t r ut h of my ser vi ce,

20 t he r evi ew boar d al l owed me t o be di schar ged honor abl y.

21 Ver y, ver y shor t l y af t er t hat t he U. S.

22 Ai r For ce Wounded War r i or pr ogr am - - whi ch i s one of

23 f i ve f ederal l y mandat ed wounded war r i or pr ogr ams i n t he

24 count ry , i t i s not a nonpr of i t , i t i s run on

25 appr opr i at ed f unds - - about a year and a hal f l at er


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1 t hey approached me and r ecr ui t ed me t o act ual l y come

2 back i nt o ser vi t ude of t he f eder al gover nment .

3 They hi r ed me t hrough a cont r act ,

4 Lockheed Mar t i n. And I became t he publ i c r el at i ons

5 di r ect or f or t he Ai r For ce Wounded War r i or pr ogr am. I

6 hel ped manage publ i c r el at i ons f or ever y si ngl e one of

7 our 4, 400 member s, whi ch, unf or t unat el y, i s gr owi ng by

8 about a hundr ed ai r men per mont h.

9 By t he t i me I was r eady t o qui t , I was so

10 di sgr unt l ed because al most hal f of al l t he par t i ci pant s

11 t hat I was abl e t o be exposed t o out of t hat 4, 000 were

12 pr i vat el y consumi ng cannabi s t o hel p t hemsel ves t hr ough

13 PTSD. I ur ge you, pl ease, pl ease add PTSD t o t he

14 r egi st r y f or t he St at e. Thank you.


16 Chr i s Lat ona, and t hen Mi ke Lat ona.

17 MR. C. LATONA: Ni ce t o see ever ybody

18 agai n. M

ptsd hearing transcript

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