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PRESS CONFERENCE FOR THE PRESENTATION OF THE PROJECT

"OLTRESUONI"

APRIL 20, 2012, 10:30 A.M.

Council Chamber of the City of Cagliari

- Speakers:

• Michele Demontis, Vice President of TDM 2000 and Press Officer for onA.I.R.;

• Carlo Eugeni, HR Manager for onA.I.R.;

• Luca Frongia, President of TDM 2000;

• Francesca Marchionne, President of onA.I.R.;

• Salvatore Meloni, President of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf

Association);

• Giuliano Pirelli, Honorary President of onA.I.R. and official at the European Commission.

- Comments and questions:

• Gianfranco Cappai, former President of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf

Association);

• Luciana Ledda, Secretary of the Cagliari section of the ENS (National Deaf Association)

and sign language interpreter;

• Daniela Noli, President of the Authority for the Right to University Education of Cagliari.

- Beginning of the conference 10:45 a.m.

Michele Demontis

Good morning, welcome to the presentation of the project “OltreSuoni”. On my right you can

see Mister Pirelli and Dr. Carlo Eugeni. On my left Francesca Marchionne, President of the

International Association on Respeaking, and Luca Frongia, President of the Association TDM

2000.

Before going on, I would like to ask you to be very silent and to pay attention to the screens

located on your sides.Now I give the floor to Dr. Carlo Eugeni.

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Carlo Eugeni

Good morning, you are reading the text I am dictating into the mask you see. Right now you

are experiencing the reading of a text pronounced orally. Technology can be imperfect.

Mistakes can occur in the text you're reading, but just think that for some people, the deaf, this

is the only way they can listen to television. The potential of this technology is enormous: not

only television, but also telephone conversations, TV programs, meetings and university

lectures can be subtitled and thus be readily available to these people. We had the idea of

subtitling the radio. Do you think it's a good idea? If yes, please follow this press conference.

Michele, I give you the floor.

Michele Demontis

Thanks to Dr. Carlo Eugeni for this short introduction he just showed us. We began with this

speech, which has been subtitled by means of respeaking, because today we are here to

present a project aiming at creating a radio station accessible to the deaf. This project was

born thanks to the cooperation between the International Association on Respeaking and the

Association TDM 2000 from Cagliari. I would like to invite Luca to summarize the subject

matters, meaning and guidelines of this project.

Luca Frongia

Good morning, everybody. I'm also trying to learn some sign language. It will take some time,

but I hope that “good morning” was signed correctly. Before illustrating the project, I brought

here from home my grandfather's radio. This radio was often contended between Gigliola

Cinquetti, my grandma's favourite singer, and soccer matches. Things were different back

then, but my grandparents, who then influenced my parents and me, have always been very

fond of the radio as a way to spread content.

Back then, these contents came from few. You needed to attend many courses, pass

competitive exams and be one of the lucky ones who could actually speak at those huge mikes

and spread joy while recounting the world of many years ago. With the new technologies, the

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Internet and many other systems, we started wondering how we could give many other

people the chance to actually express their thoughts. We wanted to give more people the

right, the chance to express their ideas. We wanted to ensure that everybody, or at least as

many as possible, have the chance to talk. We have pondered this idea and together with the

people of the Association TDM 2000 we decided to launch a web radio. This web radio project,

which was designed in 2008, then realized in 2009 and is still carried on in our municipality,

enables many young people to express their ideas, to create contents, to have a place where

they can discuss sport, music, culture, the environment, a place where they can discuss

politics in a young and fresh way with their colleagues and friends. Not only in our city

through FM frequencies, but online. This message can reach the whole world, this is very

important because it gives us a real sense of citizenship, not only at local, but also at

international level. Ours is not the first experiment of this kind of web radio, there are many

more in Europe, but this radio wants to do more. Where is the innovation? The innovation is

the creation of a radio giving all those who are now excluded from it the chance of receiving

content. Now, how does a web radio work exactly? Speakers use a microphone. The

microphones are connected to a computer. The computer creates a signal which is then sent

via computer to people whose computer is on, so that they can receive the information. With

the respeaking technique – which will be illustrated shortly – we will be able not only to listen

to this content, but also to read it. We will thus provide the opportunity to promote our ideas,

to present our content and share what is happening. In this way we can help other people take

part in it. The deaf, but not only, immigrants as well. Just imagine how difficult it is for

immigrants to receive information via auditory channels when they could receive it in writing,

instead, and be able to process it. Not only. Having a written text enables its easier and

quicker storage: it can be stored in an information system and be accessed whenever we

want. This really means a lot. I don't want to take up too much time, but you can surely

understand why I consider this initiative as highly innovative, as something which responds

to a real need. This something also makes me realize its remarkable economic consequences,

which could ensure many things: the chance to improve... The chance to perceive information

and thus the chance for other people, too, to process contents and express their ideas, because

the radio narrates, can be read and through Skype, Messenger, Easy Tune and Twitter it also

enables the expression of one's point of view. It really is an activity based on active

participation, inclusion; beyond the many words we often pronounce, this system allows the

majority of people to participate. We should test it; the project has been activated, but what is

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its goal in the end? Its goal is to be able to verify what and how much people understand.

There will be a scientific committee – and we will hear more about it from the participants –

which will create and compare figures and statistics so that we can understand how to apply

this system to other fields and how functional the system really is. I'm thinking of the

commentary for a soccer match. I'm thinking of a good history book read aloud. I'm thinking

of how it would be if everybody could hear what is going on in this hall while we are talking

about themes we're interested in and if these contents could be collected and discussed at a

later time. I think I can now end this introduction; now I'm also very curious to know how this

technique works.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Luca. Next to me Dr. Carlo Eugeni, who is the major expert in this field in Italy,

keeps subtitling what we are saying in real time; we hope this won’t be the exception, but it

will become a well-established practice in the future. This hall is obviously not equipped yet

for this technique, but we hope that in the future every major hall will be. I hereby give the

floor to the President of the International Association on Respeaking, Francesca Marchionne,

who is the actual promoter of the project; she will tell us more about respeaking.

Francesca Marchionne

Good morning. The International Association on Respeaking was founded with the aim of

applying this technique, which is both new and not new and which is just starting to spread, to

a problem which is very important for us, as Luca said: real-time access to information. There

are a lot of radios in Italy and all over the world, there is a lot of information which makes it

impossible for the deaf, those who have other kinds of hearing problems as well as foreigners

who don't master the language of the place where they live to take part in initiatives and real-

time debates. The project “OltreSuoni” can partly solve this problem by creating a written text.

Now you can see it live as it scrolls on the screens on our sides. It is not perfect because, as

Michele said, the hall is not equipped for it, but it is still possible. On a technical level,

respeaking requires an operator, called respeaker – in this case it's Carlo Eugeni – who

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repeats, reformulates or translates a text while dictating it to a speech recognition software.

This software transforms an oral text into a written one which can have various forms. In this

case it's a continuous text, but it can also be made of subtitles. This is what we would like to

do with the web radio, RadioXCaso, of the Association TDM 2000. This is just one respeaking

method. Here we have only one respeaker who both dictates to the software and corrects the

mistakes the machine sometimes makes when recognizing speech; in other cases there is

another person who only corrects the text before it is broadcast live. I end my presentation

here and give the floor to the experts in the field, especially Mister Pirelli, who did us the huge

favour of being here with us today and who will explain why he's interested in this project.

Thank you.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Francesca. I would like to clarify one thing. Without Mister Pirelli we would not be

here today talking about this important subject. It is thus an honour and a pleasure to give the

floor to Mister Pirelli.

Giuliano Pirelli

Thank you for the beautiful words with which you’ve welcomed me. I am considered, or at

least Carlo considers me, as the founder, the creator of respeaking and of speech recognition; I

am indeed among those who first thought of this. Twenty years ago, when there was nothing,

not even subtitled television, I somehow started the first trials with a group of young deaf

people and in time things have been refined. I was lucky to work as engineer and researcher

at the Research Centre of the European Commission and to be supported by the Commission

itself in pursuing this field of research. This is how we began to subtitle, to use all the

subtitling methods which were available ten years ago – and were still unstable, experimental,

– to integrate them with a video camera or a projector and somehow we were able to make

subtitled conferences, to have RAI, BBC and other European televisions involved and thus to

increase awareness about this problem. The project I was responsible for was called VOICE; in

1996 it started as a research project, in 1998 we achieved the first results, we organized many

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conferences with thousands of participants, we raised awareness in a lot of associations for

the deaf, or better: we gave these associations the means to talk, to negotiate with the various

televisions and to request knowingly what they really needed. Right now I don't want to

discuss more details. I would like to say that the reason I am here is not only technical; it's the

enthusiasm for these young people, who are as enthusiastic as I was twenty years ago. They

are skilled, they try a new field and they do this in Sardinia, with a web radio which is local,

but is accessible online all around the world. This group of young people wants to focus on an

interesting social topic; they can do it both in Sardinia and when they are travelling, when

they study in Rome, somewhere else or in the United States. This larger scope will prove it's

possible to help the deaf and the foreigners who do not master the language be part of a large,

innovative social group which can build something new in the footsteps of this project. Thank

you.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Mister Pirelli. Now it's about time to give the floor to Dr. Carlo Eugeni, who is

working as respeaker today. It's extremely exhausting, as he will tell us. Maybe we can ask

him to speak without creating subtitles, in this way his vocal cords can rest a little. This is a

technical point. Usually, as Francesca can confirm, conferences are subtitled by people taking

turns.


Yes, just like interpreters, who generally switch after 20 or 30 minutes, respeakers usually do

the same, but, as we were saying earlier, this hall is not equipped for respeaking; here we

merely have an insulated microphone which can only detect the respeaker's voice. However,

we would also need more computers and connections and this is not possible today. In other

circumstances, I would have replaced Carlo, I would have set my voice profile and done the

respeaking while he talks. Today it's not possible. Carlo will thus speak without being

respoken.

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Michele Demontis

Please, Carlo.

Carlo Eugeni

I'm sorry that the screen has now turned black, but I cannot do two things at the same time;

actually, I could, but then you would have to read on the screens what I say. Let's say that for

today you have read enough. Maybe in time you'll get used to reading the radio instead of

listening to it and it will become easier. Actually it's also difficult for me to talk and be

subtitled at the same time. Technology makes it possible, but, as we said earlier, it's not easy

to do it if the hall is not equipped for it. Moreover, the technology we're using is still

experimental, as is this project. According to history, and not to my opinion, respeaking began

with the project VOICE, launched by Giuliano Pirelli. The BBC began to use this technique on

television only in 2001. Mr. Pirelli had begun promoting it 5 years before at the JRC, the

European Commission's Joint Research Centre. Back then I had just finished high school. Or

maybe I was already attending university, but that’s not the point. I joined the project VOICE

only in 2006, when the first international conference on this subject took place. Since then,

respeaking has been researched more and more; as you can see, respeaking now enables to

access contents which would have not been accessible 10 years ago, such as... The radio, as we

are explaining, but think of a telephone call between two persons. We can subtitle it, too. It's

possible to subtitle cinema even when the movie theatre lacks the technical instrumentation

to receive subtitles. It's possible to subtitle television: in Italy subtitles are available at page

777 of the teletext; these subtitles are partly pre-recorded and partly done in real time. As to

the web radio, the technology we're using is produced by SyNTHEMA from Pisa, which is both

a research centre and a software house. The software enables the respeakers, who need an

internet connection, to access a speech recognition software, which I have on my PC right

now. The software broadcasts the subtitles on the website of the radio. As you can see,

anywhere in the world it's very easy to subtitle any radio located anywhere else. This project

enables the launch of what in my opinion... This project will enable to launch something which

in a few years will probably be widely used, because the radio can reach people all over the

world; with a bigger audience, the technique can develop further.

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The project “OltreSuoni”. There will be a study group, composed of linguists, sociologists and

teachers who can speak the Italian sign language, to research the actual efficacy of respeaking.

Research has indeed been done before, but this time it's focussed on subtitling a web radio. In

this way we can understand the actual usefulness of subtitling a web radio, which has

obviously an economic value linked to the amplification of a kind of communication which in

the past was not accessible to the deaf. The deaf are not only those who speak sign language.

Due to various factors, in our society people of younger age start to lose their sense of hearing.

This begins at 25, 30, 40 years of age and is due to lifestyles damaging our sense of hearing,

like the use of earphones. I do not want to lecture you here, but these lifestyles gradually lead

to the loss of the sense of hearing. The potential audience is thus quite large, not just one per

mil, as stated in the statistics, it’s much larger. It's around as many as 7 or 8% of the

population, which means four to five million people, if compared to Italy’s 60 million

inhabitants. It’s four, five million people who are people to all intents and purposes. They

work and have money. Imagine the huge potential for a company wanting to advertise its

products. Let us not forget the foreigners. Foreigners, like deaf people, have problems

accessing the language. Seeing the written language helps completing the information which

is not fully perceived when relying only on listening. I think I have given you a general

overview. I know two minutes are not enough to explain the importance of the event, but we

are in a position similar to that of Giuliano in 1996, when he invented this technique. The

revolution will have roughly the same impact, although back then he was ten years ahead of

his time. We're still ahead, but now we have the technology to do what he could not do ten

years ago. Fifteen years ago. Thank you.

Michele Demontis

Thanks to Carlo, who is not only a professor and expert in this field, but will also co-direct the

Scientific Committee of the project. During the planning phase of this initiative we had the

chance to meet some extraordinary people of the National Deaf Association of the province

Cagliari, who immediately showed us their support. It's a pleasure to invite President Meloni

to talk to us today and tell us something about the National Deaf Association and the role it

can play in the project “OltreSuoni”.

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Salvatore Meloni

Right now I'm so excited that I can feel my heart pounding. Thank you. Thanks to the

Association TDM, to President Luca Frongia, to Francesca, the President of the Association

OnA.I.R., and to poor Carlo Eugeni for his efforts in providing us all with subtitles, but above

all thanks, obviously, to Mister Pirelli. I share this idea, this project, because it aims at

breaking down communication barriers, which are a huge problem for us. We hope that in the

future this project can improve further. We'll be happy to cooperate. We thank you again for

this project, which is very interesting. Thank you.


We're not crazy. This is an applause in the sign language. First something important as

president of the International Association on Respeaking, with the project “OltreSuoni”: we

absolutely do not want to substitute sign language with subtitles. We just want to go a step

further and combine the two techniques. This is very important, because sign language is a

language, the same as Italian, French or English. I especially want to underscore this.

Respeaking, subtitling, the creation of a written text are merely a complement for all those

who do not speak sign language.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Francesca. I think we can now answer questions from the audience and the press.

Please.

Luciana Ledda

Good morning, let me introduce myself. I'm the secretary of the National Deaf Association,

Luciana, and I'm also an Italian sign language interpreter. As to what Francesca has just said, I

would like to underscore that, even within the world of the deaf, not everybody has the same

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degree of deafness, not everybody grew up in the same way and not all of them use sign

language. This project surely supports the aim of breaking down architectural barriers,

because it also includes all those deaf people who usually do not take advantage of

interpreting. As interpreters we would obviously like to be always present when it comes to

communication and integration between hearing and deaf people, but this project increases

even more the independence of the deaf, who can thus freely decide whether to have an

interpreter or to use these instruments to autonomously access any kind of communication;

this is why, as interpreter, I thank you all.

Michele Demontis

Thanks to you, Luciana, for the help you're giving us. In this regard, we, as TDM 2000, always

suggest to actively participate in all our projects. In this specific case a group of deaf people

and a group of hearing people will take part together in the experiment with reference to the

access to programs and to the relevant debate. I thus call for anyone who might be interested

in participating: you're more than welcome. We'll probably start around mid-May, as soon as

we complete the technical part. The experiment will proceed as follows: the participants will

listen to certain radio programs broadcast both in traditional way and with respoken

subtitles; they will then have a debate about these programs. I'll give you an example. There

will be a program about politics, sport or society and the participants will first listen to this

program and then use telematic instruments, such as an online forum, a Facebook group, etc.,

to have a debate about the contents of the program. Are there any questions?

Gianfranco Cappai

Good morning. I'm the former President of the National Deaf Association. My name is

Gianfranco Cappai. I would like to share my thoughts. This project will undergo a 6 months'

trial period. I'd like to know whether, after the 6 months, we'll still be able to cooperate with

the project as deaf, as National Deaf Association, especially because it's a great chance to

promote integration between deaf and hearing people.

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The project “OltreSuoni” is presented as an experimental project, a pilot project which aims at

acting as springboard for further activities in which the deaf are essential. Their perspective is

essential. In this case I speak in the name of my association, but I think that TDM 2000 will

also be interested in continuing the cooperation for their specific field of interest, active

citizenship, beyond the scope of the project. I give the floor to Luca who will tell you more.

Luca Frongia

The main focus of our daily activities is the promotion of active citizenship for all the

members of our community, but we especially want to include people with difficulties, so that

they can overcome barriers thanks to innovations and passion. Right now we do not only

work with the people leading the local government, we especially work with European funds.

We identified two or three items which would provide us with the resources to extend this

project to 18 or 24 months after the end of the project; this would not only enable to

strengthen the experimentation, but also to divulge its results. Regardless of the economic

resources we may or may not receive in the future, the web radio gives us the possibility to

have this technology and this functionality for free. The combination of our passion, our spirit

of enterprise and our volunteer work makes it possible to offer this service in the long term.

The point is to be sympathetic and sensitive towards other people's needs. The point is to

achieve more than mere economic resources. This means achieving self-respect by helping

someone else. This is the biggest reward, in my opinion, the greatest pleasure anyone can

experience. This is how we have always understood it. We'll have the chance to help each

other, like Carlo is helping us today; he's teaching us something. We convey what we know to

other people. Other people will give their contribution and convey what they know to other

people; this will create a better world. This is, in my opinion, the meaning of our daily

activities; the same applies to the activities of many other associations which aim at creating a

city which is more agreeable and useful for everyone.

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Michele Demontis

I would like to add a long-term perspective. We'll carry out a time-limited experimentation

lasting 6 months in the form of a pilot project. Our final goal for a relatively close future is to

transform today's pilot project into a well-established service used by most radio stations. We

are not trying to prove to be particularly smart or brilliant. We're here today because we have

identified a route to follow which, in our opinion, can and must be followed. The use of

technology as a support for disabilities is, in our opinion, the real instrument of social

inclusion. We shall not segregate, we shall include. This is the final aim of the project. We hope

that, within 3 or 4 years, respeaking will be available in all radio stations, at least the main

ones, and that meetings like this one will no longer be an exception, will no longer be

extraordinary, but something utterly normal.

Luca Frongia

I want to leave time for questions, but I urge you to think, even for just a few seconds, about

the possibility of using respeaking to learn a language. With this system the language learning

rates for various languages are very high. Imagine to be somewhere and not to understand the

language. It's typical for us Italians abroad. It happens a lot. Imagine to have a respeaker

translating from English into Italian and providing you also with a written text you can then

keep. Online you can thus obtain a translation you can use on your PC, or you can download it

as podcast or save it on your smartphone or iPhone. The uses of this instrument are countless,

which also gives young people many opportunities to specialize, to contribute to this

development or to play a small role within larger realities. And in the end their role wouldn’t

be quite that small.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Luca. Are there other questions? Please.

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Daniela Noli

I have two technical questions. First of all I’ll introduce myself. I am Daniela Noli, President of

the Authority for the Right to University Education. I wanted to ask: you mentioned the

equipment of the hall. As I think of university students, I would like to know what this means

in practical terms. Moreover, I think you're collecting names of people who would like to take

part in the experimental project. I would like to know more about it, what features shall the

participants have? How much time would be necessary? The project lasts six months, but

what about every day? Would the participants be busy every day? For how long? Or maybe

once a week, once a month? What kind of data will you collect? Your “we want to know how

this instrument works” is too vague. And I would also like to know how it works and how you

will collect the data.


I'll answer the technical question as to the equipment of the hall and the features of

respeaking. First of all Carlo should not be here. Today it's possible because he brought a

soundproof microphone called Stenomask which can recognize his voice only. The respeaker

can be here with us also because you're completely silent. Usually a respeaker works, like a

simultaneous interpreter, in a soundproof booth with a headset, so that he only hears the

audio input. He has a computer with speech recognition software, in order to ensure optimal

recognition and results. Moreover, respeakers work in turns, which means that more

computers are connected to the screens. We were somewhat worried because these screens

are on the side, but I see that they work anyway. We thought it would be better to use natural

light and no lamps to avoid reflection. This is how the hall has to be equipped. The screen shall

be visible for everyone, the whole public. In university halls the screen shall possibly... It shall

be visible like a PowerPoint, exactly. In a university lecture the screen should probably be

behind the professor. If the respeaker has to be present, he also needs an instrument like the

Stenomask or an online system like the one we'll use with the web radio. This system enables

a respeaker to work from home and to offer his services in total isolation: he receives the

audio input and uses the software to broadcast the subtitles directly to the university hall, in

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this case. As to our trial project and the working schedule, I leave the floor to Michele. Or

maybe Carlo wants to answer, too.

Michele Demontis

Carlo, who is the president of the Scientific Committee.

Carlo Eugeni

Yes. As to the experimentation, one of our projects has already been tested. It covers

comprehension, reception and perception of the text content. Comprehension, reception and

perception are, for those who do not know, three different aspects of the reception of a text.

For example you think you understood something when in reality you were supposed to

understand something else. This is just a rough example. The team will obviously focus every

time on a different kind of text; they will use a grid I can show you later, if you want. Right

now I do not have one to show to everybody. This grid has been tested in the European

project "Digital TV for All" and makes it possible to understand how much someone has really

understood of the subtitles through the comparison not with what has actually been said, but

with what a hearing person understood. A mistake is often made in this field, in the field of the

comprehension of a written text by the deaf: the mistake is to compare the understanding of a

deaf person with the meaning of the source text and not with the comprehension of hearing

people. This is an essential point, because when hearing people listen to a text, they do not

necessarily understand 100% of what is said, comprehension often amounts to 60%. So we

can assume for instance that deaf people understand 50%. If we compare this percentage to

the meaning of a text the way it was written by its author, the result is that the deaf

understand half of it. This is however a misrepresentation. If we compare the 50% to the 60%

understood by hearing people, then we see that deaf and hearing people are not so different,

there are just slight differences. I said 60 and 50, but these were experimental data. The

European project "Digital TV for All" involved many European universities and various

countries, among which Italy, Spain, Denmark, the UK, Germany and Greece. We saw with this

project that the deaf understood some texts better than hearing people. The data we will

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collect from this experimentation will probably tell us something I have known for a long

time. Unfortunately, most people don’t realize it: deaf people are normal people. They are

individuals, with different education degrees, with different jobs, of different ages. According

to whether they're used or not to reading written texts, their comprehension is absolutely

comparable to that of hearing people. If the average is lower, the text has likely been prepared

specifically to be received via the audio channel. In an academic lecture, though, information

is conveyed with different means, not only speech. I give the floor to Giuliano Pirelli, although

it's your job to do so, but he asked me. If you want I can let you do it.

Giuliano Pirelli

I wanted to add something. Carlo has given a thorough answer to your question, but there is

something else your question did not consider. We mentioned everything which needs to be

prepared in the hall and for the subtitled lecture; immediately after, the following day, the

attendees will request – be it a university lecture or a town council session – the notes or the

minutes of the lecture. What Carlo, the respeaker, has generated is surely of good quality, but

it's not 100% complete. So, if you think that this second phase is important, it shall be

foreseen from the start. Imagine a university hall in which some students, for the purpose of

an internship or a dissertation, shall read again the texts in agreement with the professor. Or

someone else, a secretary, a councillor who wants to read the text again after a session of the

town council. This shall always be taken into account, because the generated text really is of

great value, also for the web radios: some radio programs can be broadcast again after a

month, which is already important for the audio content; it's just as important to make the

whole text available online. If you want to do it, someone has to review the texts.

Daniela Noli

There is also a law on copyright. What is the relationship between this system and this law?

What is the actual problem?

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Giuliano Pirelli

Well, listen, I'm happy to recall a conference organized by RAI around 15 years ago. Its title

was "Scripta volant". We always say "scripta manent", but subtitles are actually flying texts,

they're written texts accompanying television programs, but they're also oral words in

written form. Many teachers say that text messages and the Internet provide a kind of writing

which is not a written text. It's an oral text via cell phone. My answer is: I don't know. The

question of copyright enters a new field. But I would like to recall what someone else asked

before about the value of this experiment, about what will happen in six months. This is a

completely new field. We're talking about web radio, which no one talked about years ago. We

talk about the web, which almost no one talked about 10 years ago. Last night I was with the

guys, everyone has an iPad with which they download webpages. I don't do it. It's a fast

evolving world. When the European Commission finances something, it cannot know its exact

purpose, but it understands that something is going to happen in this field within the next few

months. Trials, experimentations and innovations are important and I want to say, then I’ll

finish, that it's also important to spur the young. We always talk about young people who are

unemployed, who are looking for a job. Interpreters who can do respeaking would gladly do it.

Within six months, one year this all... They would gladly do it if they knew that there's a

market behind it. I'm sure this market exists, and so is Carlo. He organized courses, masters. I

think this field needs exploring and further development.

Carlo Eugeni and Daniela Noli at the same time:

May I reply?

Daniela Noli

I had no intention of being negative. Far from it. But as legal representative of a regional

institution, I need to tackle this question. This project has been launched by an association

without legal status, which is therefore subject to private law, while a regional authority is

different, it has a different legal status. I like the project very much. Among other things I'm a

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pedagogist, so I cannot but appreciate this kind of sensitivity towards people whose life is

different from ours. I don't see any handicap in this regard, on either side. It's just different

ways of living and understanding our daily life. But as I'd like to take part in this experimental

project, I also have to consider possible problems of a legal nature. My question was very easy

and only aimed at understanding whether the organizers of the initiative have taken into

account these aspects.

Luca Frongia

Our web radio has all the necessary authorizations: SIAE, SCF, etc. This needs to be said

upfront. What I think is important to say here is: I make a radio program and I'm very happy

to know that, from yesterday's 30% or 40%, now it's accessible to 50% more of users. What

I’m saying is: if I can make a program which the deaf and foreigners can understand as well,

I'm very happy. This is why I'm ready to do all I can so that this technology can be used like a

new cell phone, like a new system, a new Twitter, like anything enabling better

communication with the others. In my opinion the theme of copyright needs to be tackled. In

the field of experimentation we are confronted with new barriers, new limits which we can

only tackle when we are so far, but this is innovation, experimentation, this is the future. I also

think that those who rely on this technique do it in full awareness. A professor, a respeaker, a

politician can decide whether they want to do it or not. We will obviously have all the legal

documents, because we live in a society which needs a lot of documents to comply with all the

existing laws. In my opinion, however, the base of everything is our will. In my opinion if one

of the subjects I mentioned earlier is in favour, the copyright issue will disappear, because

here we're talking about contents. We're not talking about a song or something else which is

not directly made available by its author.

Michele Demontis

A very important thing about copyright. The experimental programs we will broadcast on our

web radio will be produced by us. We will not use contents created by others or subject to

distribution rights belonging to others. We will therefore be totally within the law.

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Luca Frongia

Fifteen years ago the European Union... Actually the Council of Europe, which is an older and

larger institution with more money, launched a very interesting campaign. This campaign was

called "All different, all equal". Our initiatives will unfold within this framework. We're

different, disabled and non-disabled. Non-disabled and deaf people, as Luciana said earlier.

There is also a huge gender-based difference between her and me. What I mean is that we feel

in different ways. This makes us wonderful individuals and we should all have the same

opportunities to be involved. This is what we want. We know that what is different is just

different, we cannot change it, but with the instruments we have we can offer the chance to

make people a little more equal than before. This is what should spur us and should make us

tackle all difficulties and overcome them.

Carlo Eugeni

Excuse me, I'm trying to be multitasking, but it's very difficult, also because, as is well-known,

men are unable to do two things at the same time. I'm trying with all of myself, with all I have

learnt, to overcome this barrier, which is not gender-based, obviously, because I am and want

to remain a man, but from the point of view... My God, this speech is becoming... I just wanted

to simply answer your question, instead I'm talking like a stand-up comedian. So, copyright

does not apply to text creation. I mean... If you're talking about copyright of the person

generating the text, that is the respeaker, then copyright does not apply if the purpose of the

text is... If the purpose is not... Let me start again.

Daniela Noli

If the purpose is not commercial.

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Carlo Eugeni

If the text has no commercial purpose, as is the case of e-learning at university, then copyright

does not apply. It only applies when a subtitled product will be marketed. I think for instance

of subtitled DVDs. The company producing these DVDs has the copyright on each copy which

is sold. If instead I create a subtitle which is paid for by a university, my quotation includes

everything: preparing the subtitle, producing it and, if necessary, the future use of the subtitle.

This is an unsaid practice, because the invoice does not state it anywhere, but from a legal

point of view it's anyway correct. You cannot ask for money for something which does not

generate money and generates culture instead or gives access etc. From the opposite point of

view, the respeaker obviously may not divulge a text he has only subtitled, unless the author

of said text authorizes it. If for instance... Excuse me? If a professor does not want its lecture to

be divulged, the subtitles can be used only as lecture notes. We can say that he has no

copyright on the lecture notes, but he has the copyright on his voice and on his presence in the

university hall. Obviously the university can follow the principle: "Let us divulge university

content to a broad public”. This is part of the advertising for university lectures, which are

free of charge, as we know. Actually they are accessible to everyone, they are public. This is

what I meant. Of course there is a huge difference, but this is what I wanted to say. In a

university context it's obvious... I think it's common sense that the institution, through the

rector or the co-rector... I don’t know exactly who is in charge of the office for the disabled in

your university... I will finish immediately! It's common sense to tell the professors: "You have

to give the authorization to make the subtitles of your lectures available". I'm sorry.

Michele Demontis

Thank you, Carlo. Are there any other questions? Good. If there is no question and if none of

the speakers wants to add anything, I'd say we can finish here. We thank you for being here

today. We thank first of all the National Deaf Association as well as everyone who was here

today. This is just a first meeting. I think we'll meet again soon to see where we stand with

this work-in-progress and to verify the progress of the experimentation. We remain at the

disposal of anyone who should be interested in taking part in this pilot project in various

ways. Thank you all and see you soon. Can someone help us with the radio?

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Luca Frongia

This is why technology created new ones.

- End of the conference 12.15 p.m.

Translation by Cristina Tabbia.

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