president bush and laura bush on larry king live, january 13, 2009, exit interview

8/14/2019 President Bush and Laura Bush on Larry King Live, January 13, 2009, Exit Interview

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Transcript from President Bush and Laura Bush on

Larry King Live

January 13, 2008

Exit Interview

LARRY KING, HOST: Tonight, exactly a week before Bush is out and

Obama is in.

President George W. Bush and First Lady Laura are here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've given it my

all. I've given it my all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: What's his biggest regret, his darkest hour, his advice for the new

first family?

Plus, the ultimate question -- is America better off now than when he took

office?

The answer from President Bush next on LARRY KING LIVE.

We're in the library at the White House with President George W. Bush and

Laura Bush, with a week to go.

Are you going to miss it, Laura?

LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I am going to miss

it. I'm going to miss this beautiful house and all the people that work here.

We're going to miss the people especially.


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KING: Are you anxious to go, Mr. President?

G. BUSH: Anxious is a -- I don't know if it's the right word. I am -- I'm not

sure exactly what I'm going to feel like on January the 21st. I've been, youknow, I've had security briefings -- intelligence briefings nearly every

morning for the last eight years. And I'll wake up and...

KING: You're not going to get it.

G. BUSH: ...not have a briefing and realize the responsibility is not on my

shoulders anymore.

KING: Is there ambivalent feelings?

G. BUSH: No. I don't think you can be ambivalent. First of all, I am -- I've

been looking forward to the inauguration of Barack Obama. I'll have a front

row seat in what is an historic moment for the country.

KING: Do you like him?

G. BUSH: I do. Yes, I do like him. And you'd like him, too.

KING: Oh, I know him. He was -- but he was so critical of you.

Do you take that personally or you don't?

L. BUSH: I did.

KING: You did?

(LAUGHTER)

KING: Were you -- were you angry at it?


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L. BUSH: Yes, sort of. George didn't even really know about it because he

didn't watch it that much, I don't think.

G. BUSH: Yes, so what's new?

I mean what...

L. BUSH: Yes, exactly.

G. BUSH: When you make big decisions and tough calls, you're going to

get criticized. Yes, I -- during the course of this presidency, of course, I've

been disappointed at times by the silly name-calling that goes on in

Washington. It's really not necessary that it happened. But I've done mybest, though, to make sure I didn't bring the presidency down to that level.

KING: How do you feel?

I know that you had that, you know, wild press conference yesterday.

How do you feel personally when you -- you see the ratings and the polls

that -- and have you at 25, 30 percent...

G. BUSH: I don't give a darn.

KING: It doesn't deflect...

G. BUSH: I feel the same way as when they had me at 90 plus.

KING: The same?

G. BUSH: Yes, look it -- these opinion polls are nothing but a, you know, a

shot of yesterday's news. And, of course, the opinion polls aren't going to

be high when the economy is in the tank. I'm the president during a time of

tough economic conditions. And, you know, people aren't happy with the

economy. And neither am I.


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And -- so you cannot make decisions based upon, you know, popularity

polls. I have people come to me and say, you get out of Iraq because

you're making us unpopular. And I say, well, pal, you must not know what it

means to be commander-in-chief. If the military thinks you're makingdecisions based upon a Gallup poll, they're not going to follow the

commander-in-chief.

And, secondly, you must not have met with those whose kids died in Iraq. If

you think that I'm going to say to a mother, your son's -- your son's honor is

not going to be -- your son's sacrifice is not going to be honored because of

my political standing, then you don't understand George W. Bush.

KING: But do you ever get the feeling -- and everyone has some doubts

about some things -- that, you know, if I was wrong, if Iraq was wrong and

-- then they died in vain and I sent them?

G. BUSH: Yes, I don't think Iraq was wrong.

KING: No, but do you ever have a moment of feeling where it was wrong?

G. BUSH: No. I was -- what I was worried Iraq was going to fail, not Iraq

was wrong -- that Iraq is going to fail. And that's why I put 30,000 troops in

when a lot of people were saying get out. And the surges worked. And a

young democracy in the heart of the Middle East has taken hold. And,

obviously, there's more work to be done.

But Al Qaeda has been denied the -- you know, the base from which they

wanted to operate.

KING: But when a boy dies, what is your feeling then?

G. BUSH: I'm sad as heck. Of course, I'm sad. I met with a lot of families of

the fallen. And I know every night when a boy or a man or a woman has

died. I know that. And I know the emptiness their family feels. I've talked to


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hundreds of families of the fallen. I also know that the families of the fallen

don't want their politicians who are, you know, running this war to be doing

-- you know, making those decisions based upon some, you know, Gallup

Poll.

KING: How do you feel?

L. BUSH: About -- you know, when I hear or meet families of the...

KING: Yes.

L. BUSH: ...or meet families of the fallen?

Sad, of course. Very sad.

KING: But you don't ever say, maybe -- maybe George was wrong?

L. BUSH: No, I don't. I really don't. I mean, do we really think we wish we

had just kept doing U.N. Resolutions against Saddam Hussein and that he

was still there? I mean I just don't think people really think that. And I think

the people of Iraq are out from underneath a regime -- a tyrannical regime

and have the chance to build a country and build a democracy. And I hope

that the people of the United States will stand with them while they do that.

G. BUSH: The other thing about this job, you don't get to do do- overs.

Maybe you do if you're one of these guys asking questions. But the

president doesn't get to do do-overs.

KING: I don't do do-overs.

(LAUGHTER)

G. BUSH: I mean you...

KING: But...


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(LAUGHTER)

G. BUSH: You make decisions based upon the information you have at the

hand -- during the time.

KING: But when there were no weapons of mass destruction...

G. BUSH: I was discouraged.

KING: Were you angry at the people who told you there were? I mean, you

didn't go inspect. You didn't...

G. BUSH: I didn't -- I was unhappy. And they're -- but rather than sitting

around being unhappy, I decided to do something about it and to -- had a

full investigation of why things went wrong. And then we reformed our

intelligence services.

But guess who else was unhappy?

Every single intelligence officer who thought there was going to be

weapons of mass destruction. And it just wasn't the United States. You

know, we -- see, what's interesting about history, people have short

memories. And I'm not suggesting you do, but nevertheless, people do.

At the time, we passed a resolution in the United Nations Security Council

15-0 that said disclose, disarm or face serious consequences. That was

that was what France and Great Britain and the U.N. Security Council said,

including China and Russia -- to Saddam Hussein. And the reason why

they said that is because we all thought he had weapons of mass

destruction.

KING: So but some -- it had to begin somewhere with someone telling you

there are weapons of mass destruction there?


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Aren't you...

G. BUSH: Yes, the CIA told me. KING: The CIA -- are you angry at them?

G. BUSH: No. I'm disappointed, you know?

First of all, the CIA is vital in the war against these terrorists. There are still

people out there, Larry, that would look to come and kill Americans. And in

order to have an effective response, you've got to have an intelligence

service that is motivated, that is funded, that uses their skills to help you

determine the desires and plans of the enemy. The most important job I

have had and the most important job the next president will have is to

protect the American people from another attack.

KING: Does he get angry, Laura?

L. BUSH: No. Not really.

KING: No?

L. BUSH: Not really.

G. BUSH: Not at her.

(LAUGHTER)

KING: No, I mean -- but I mean it's logical -- the person in charge, when

someone tells him something that doesn't pan out, to get angry.

L. BUSH: Well, everyone thought the...

KING: You know, the baseball managers get...

L. BUSH: I mean this...


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KING: Baseball managers get angry when the shortstop throws the ball

away.

G. BUSH: Yes, they get angry and they argue with the ump and they get

thrown out of the game. When you're the president, you've got to stay inthe game and you've got to find out what went wrong and you've got to

motivate people to make sure we get a -- do a better job next time.

KING: We'll be right back with President and Mrs. George W. Bush. One

week to go.

Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I, George Walker Bush, do solemnly swear.

G. BUSH: I, George W. Bush do solemnly swear. Two airplanes have

crashed into the World Trade Center.

I can hear you. The rest of the world hears you.

On my orders, coalition forces...

You're dealing with one of the worst natural disasters.

Welcome the freely elected leader of Iraq to the White House.

We will continue to act to resolve this crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: We're back in the library at the White House with President George


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W. Bush and Laura Bush, with a week to go and then back to -- to Texas.

Reagan once asked this, so we'll ask it -- are we better off today than we

were eight years ago?

G. BUSH: One thing is for certain today, we understand the real dangers

that we face. Eight years ago, it looked like the world was peaceful and

everything was just fine in the economy. And then we had a recession, then

we had an attack and now we've had this financial meltdown. Everything

looked like, on the international front that, you know, radicalism might be,

you know, a problem over there, but not here.

And so one thing is for certain, that there's a lot of clarity now on the threatswe face.

KING: Are you a victim of that?

G. BUSH: I'm not a victim. I'm the president of a great country that dealt

with the problems that came our way. And I...

KING: What part is cause and effect?

In other words, what part in the economy's failure does -- is the president to

blame?

G. BUSH: You know, it's -- in this case, not to blow my own horn, but I

recognized the dangers inherent with Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and

asked Congress to regulate them, because I was worried a government --

an implicit government guarantee in the mortgage industry and that they

were getting a little overextended. And -- but, look, I mean...

KING: And Congress didn't listen?

G. BUSH: No. There's too much -- there's too many special interests here

that were protecting Fannie and Freddie.


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KING: You were known as anti-regulatory.

G. BUSH: That's what they said in the campaigns. But the truth is...

KING: What is...

G. BUSH: ...the facts are that I actually asked for Fannie and Freddie to be

regulated. And I'm sorry that, you know, the purveyors of truth didn't step up

and say, well, George Bush was for that. But nevertheless, it's true.

KING: So are you saying you saw this coming?

G. BUSH: No, we didn't see it coming. We saw that there could be dangers

in an unregulated Fannie and Freddie and that they needed a regulator and

they needed to be reigned in.

KING: Was it waking up one morning and Lehman Brothers, Citicorp --

what's going on?

G. BUSH: Yes, that wasn't very pleasant. It was a very difficult late

summer/early fall.

KING: Are you and Obama, by the way, in tune now on what we're doing to

help -- help cause and effect here?

G. BUSH: Well, we're in tune that he -- to the extent that he asked me to

ask Congress for the 350 -- the second $350 billion. And it's up to him, of

course, to explain to Congress how he intends to spend it -- which he's

doing right now.

KING: But you said the other day, what, that you're -- you're not the

capitalist you were?

G. BUSH: No. I said I tossed out free market principles for a brief period of


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time in order to make sure that our economy -- the financial markets didn't

completely meltdown, which would have hurt the working person a lot

worse than he's being hurt today.

KING: Are you both -- are you well within yourselves?

In other words, how does it feel after eight years?

G. BUSH: What does that mean, well within yourself?

KING: You know...

G. BUSH: I'm feeling pretty good.

KING: No, I mean...

(LAUGHTER)

KING: You told me at the Ben Franklin Dinner that you never go to sleep at

night worried or feeling bad.

G. BUSH: No, that's not an accurate statement. I -- I said -- you asked me if

I was sleeping well at night.

KING: Yes.

G. BUSH: And I said I do sleep well. That doesn't mean I'm not worried

about things when I go to sleep.

KING: But you sleep -- you sleep well?

G. BUSH: I'm sleeping OK, yes.

KING: Do you worry?


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L. BUSH: Sure, I worry. I worried most right after September 11th. I mean

for a long time in there I worried a lot. I worried about another attack. I

worried about the safety and the security of Americans. And I mean

everyone did. I think there isn't anybody that lives in the United States that

didn't worry for a long time.

I think we've forgotten what it was like when we all worried and when there

was -- when a lot of people had anxiety, most people, probably that had

watched television that day or had seen what happened.

I mean I think that's -- because we are more secure today, people are not

as worried and they've sort of forgotten what it was like when -- when

everyone woke up worried.

KING: Have we stopped...

G. BUSH: If you're president, you worry.

KING: Have we stopped a lot of things that we don't know about...

G. BUSH: Yes.

KING: ...that you know about?

G. BUSH: And we've learned a lot of information about Al Qaeda that we

didn't know before. And we have stopped some specific threats. And we're

decimating their leadership.

KING: How -- 9/11, what did it do to you?

G. BUSH: It made me realize my most important responsibility is to protect

the country from attack. I mean it was...

KING: It changed you?


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G. BUSH: Yes, it changed me. It changed the country, too. And it's -- you

know, I still have images of those days vivid in my mind. And I told the

American people I wouldn't tire and I wouldn't falter and I haven't.

KING: Knowing what we know now, could it have been prevented?

Did someone have information?

G. BUSH: You know, those kind of questions are like -- you know...

KING: Well, we learn for the future, don't we?

G. BUSH: But we didn't know anything. I mean, we -- nobody knew.Nobody predicted that guys were going to fly airplanes into major buildings

in New York or the Pentagon, so. But we now have tools in place, if that's

what you're asking, that make it more likely that we'll be able to...

KING: That's what I mean.

G. BUSH: I'm sorry. Yes. More likely that we'll have better information.

That's why we want to be listening to the phone calls from known Al Qaeda

operatives if they're calling in the United States to know what -- you know

what's interesting and one of the probably most discouraging periods of the

presidency was when at first, right after 9/11, people were getting hauled

up there to testify in Congress.

And they say, well, why didn't the Bush administration connect the dots?

And then we started putting tools in place within the law to connect the

dots. And then after we got far enough away from September the 11th, they

said why are you connecting the dots, you know?

And so it's...

KING: Are you saying you were in a no-win?


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G. BUSH: It sounds like it. But I -- you know, and I understand all this noise

and all the rhetoric. But the job of the president is to stay focused on the

goal. And the goal is to protect this country from getting attacked.

And you asked do I ever worry?

Of course, I do. I worry about an enemy that still wants to hurt us. Now,

some out there are saying well, he's just making it up, there's no enemy.

Well, I promise you, the next president is going to realize there's an enemy.

KING: Do you think -- or do you get hurt when a Colin Powell comes outand says things like we shouldn't torture and we should close

Guantanamo?

G. BUSH: No, I don't get hurt, because we don't torture.

KING: So does it hurt you that Colin, who worked for you, is saying that?

G. BUSH: I don't think he said George Bush has tortured. I can't remember

his quote. But I'm comfortable with what we did and know it was necessary

to protect the country. KING: So there's nothing you've done in the area of

treatment of prisoners that causes you any kind of pause?

G. BUSH: No. No. Everything we did was -- you know, it had legal -- legal

opinions behind it. Look, you're sitting there, you've captured Khalid Sheikh

Mohammed. He's the guy that ordered the September the 11th attacks. And

we want to know what he knows in order to protect the United States of

America.

And I got legal opinions that said whatever we're going to do is legal. And

my job is to protect you, Larry. And I've given it my all. I've given it my all.

KING: What are your feelings about Colin Powell?


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G. BUSH: He's a great man.

KING: You hold him in high regard?

G. BUSH: Absolutely.

KING: We'll be right back with George and Laura Bush.

Don't go away -- the president of the United States.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

G. BUSH: Thank you very much. I look forward to future press

conferences.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: ...against Iraq?

G. BUSH: All options are on the table.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: People now believe it was a mistake.

(CROSSTALK)

QUESTION: Mr. President, you say you're making progress.

Can you explain why you approved...

G. BUSH: Is that your question?


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some, we're going to have to -- they're going to have to use some very

sensitive intelligence. And it's very important that that intelligence be -- be

safeguarded in a proper fashion.

Look, we don't want...

KING: Laura, how are...

G. BUSH: We don't the -- we don't want our intelligence secrets out there

for everybody to look at it. There is still an enemy that wants to strike us,

Larry. And, therefore, it's important to have the tools and the intelligence

necessary to protect the American people.

KING: How much a part of all this decision-making were you, Laura?

L. BUSH: Well, none of any of this decision-making.

KING: None at all?

L. BUSH: No, of course not.

KING: Were you... L. BUSH: That's not my expertise or my -- you know, I'm

not privy to any of those briefings, obviously.

KING: But did he keep you posted as to events?

L. BUSH: Not really. You know -- no, not really. I mean I'm -- I know what

everybody else knows that reads the newspaper and watches the news.

But that's not all of the briefings, obviously.

KING: Do you ever disagree with him?

G. BUSH: No, not really. I mean I know the burden on him. I know what his

responsibility is. And everyone wants a president who has that

responsibility and knows what it is. And he -- he didn't get to shirk it. Other


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people can say, oh, we should have done this, we should have done that.

But the president himself has very, very serious responsibility. And George

knows that.

And I'm proud of the way he's shouldered that responsibility.

KING: But you do make certain decisions, because I got a tip that while you

were in Philadelphia, the president was asked about his new house in

Dallas. And he has never seen it.

L. BUSH: He's never seen it. That's right.

KING: So you go to...

G. BUSH: That's faith.

KING: You bought this house that he doesn't know where he's going to

live?

L. BUSH: That's right. I showed him some pictures before we bought it.

Well, actually, maybe I had actually already committed...

G. BUSH: I trust her judgment.

L. BUSH: ...before I showed him the pictures.

G. BUSH: I trust her judgment. You know, this thing about, you know,

consulting with Laura on -- you know, on a lot of matters.

First of all, as she alluded to, there's a lot of intelligence that she's not privy

to. When we have secrets here in the United States, there's only a select

few that get to see them.

And, secondly, of course she knew what was taking place, because


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oftentimes I'd say I'm wrestling with this or I'm thinking about that. And she

doesn't know it, but she helped me a lot when decision-making by just

comforting and by just standing with me, being a love.

KING: So she was aware without necessarily being specifically aware? L.BUSH: Well, that's right. I mean, of course.

G. BUSH: She knew. Look, when you get with -- Larry, when we're getting

ready to -- she -- 1441 in the United Nations, she knew exactly what was

taking place. And she knew exactly when I stood up and said you've got X

number of days to get rid of the Taliban, that -- that when those days were

up, I'm a man of my word. Or the Taliban had X number of days to get rid of

Al Qaeda, excuse me.

KING: Oh.

G. BUSH: So she knew what was going on.

KING: How, by the way -- you're a couple. You have interests other than

just -- you've got a job of running the country, but you're also a family.

How has the economy hit you?

G. BUSH: I'm in a blind trust.

KING: So you don't know how it's hit you?

G. BUSH: So I can't tell you. But I'm confident it has.

KING: When do you find out, on the 21st?

G. BUSH: The 21st of January.

(LAUGHTER)


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KING: When you're in a blind trust, does that mean you don't know what

stocks you might have...

G. BUSH: I have no earthly idea.

KING: And who controls the trust?

G. BUSH: Northern Trust.

KING: Of Texas?

G. BUSH: I don't know. Northern Trust is like a big national outfit. It

probably came out of -- I met the trustees eight years ago and I haven'ttalked to them since.

KING: Does that concern you?

L. BUSH: Sure.

KING: Well, you might...

L. BUSH: I mean, but that's just a fact of life. When you run for political

office, and especially when you serve as president, then your holdings are

in a blind trust and that -- we knew that. And, you know, that's something

you accept. KING: Are you confident about the economy?

G. BUSH: In the long run, absolutely. I'm confident that the steps I had to

take were necessary to make sure that the financial system didn't seize up

so bad that -- that we could have been heading into a much worse situation

than we're headed into.

Let me take you to the Roosevelt Room last fall. Ben Bernanke and Hank

Paulson -- two extremely bright, smart people -- they were briefing me on

the economy. They said, Mr. President, if we don't act strongly, it is

conceivable that we're heading into a depression greater than the Great


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Depression. That got my attention big time.

And I said, well, what do you all recommend?

And we went through the series of recommendations. And they came upwith the $700 billion TARP. And a lot of my friends are saying, you know,

why are you doing this?

I mean, Wall Street caused the problem. Let them fail. And we considered

all those options.

But the -- my biggest worry was is that a financial system that had a kind of

a series of collapses to it could have thrown this country into a -- into theGreat Depression, as they warned. And I wasn't going to let that happen to

the working people.

KING: Oh...

G. BUSH: And so I'm confident that we have taken steps to begin to help

heal the system. And credit spreads are down and credit is beginning to

move.

(CROSSTALK)

KING: Obama says 2009 is going to be still pretty bad.

G. BUSH: It probably is. It probably is. He'll learn not to become an

economic forecaster once he gets to be president.

(LAUGHTER)

G. BUSH: He can do that...

KING: That's not a good idea to say?


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G. BUSH: I don't think so. I think you can say it's going to be a tough

period. But, you know, to start trying to predict what the economy is going

to do is...

KING: In other words, you wouldn't use the word bad?

G. BUSH: No. I'd say it's going to be bad. It is going to be WOMAN: Ad.

But, you know, how bad, how long?

It's -- what he ought to be saying -- and I know he feels this way -- is that

he's going to take the steps that he thinks is necessary to get us back on

the road of recovery. And we will recover.

KING: More with President Bush and Laura right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Touched some bases as quick as we can in our remaining moments.

In the exit interview of President Bush and Laura Bush, the president will

address the nation on Thursday night.

G. BUSH: True statement.

KING: Like I haven't said true statements so far. What do you think of

Hillary Clinton's appointment of secretary of state?

G. BUSH: She is a very strong, capable woman.

KING: Laura, you have a thought?

L. BUSH: Same thing. I think she will do a good job.

KING: Did you watch any of her testimony today?

L. BUSH: I didn't hatch a chance to.


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KING: Did you read any of Obama's books?

G. BUSH: No.

KING: I want to get to something --

G. BUSH: Trying to figure out this line of questioning?

KING: Well, I have been told --

G. BUSH: My favorite color is blue and I love enchiladas.

KING: Dark blue or light blue?

G. BUSH: Not that blue. That is a good look, just a good look.

KING: You really hurt me. You don't like this shirt, that's it.

G. BUSH: No, it's a beautiful shirt.

KING: I am trying to look up something. I will get to it in a minute. Are we

ever, ever going to find bin Laden?

G. BUSH: Yes, of course. Absolutely.

KING: You are confident, based on --

G. BUSH: Because we have a lot of people looking for him, a lot of assets

out there. He can't run forever. Just like the people who allegedly were

involved in the East African bombings, couple of them were brought to

justice recently.

KING: Did we ever come close?


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G. BUSH: I don't know. I can't answer that.

KING: You don't know.

G. BUSH: I really don't know. I'm not trying to hide anything.

KING: You -- you had two girls in the White House? What advice would you

give Mrs. Obama on having two girls in the White House?

L. BUSH: Well, I would tell her this is a wonderful and grand home. That it

is a very nice home for a family. And we know that both from having been

the children of a president ourselves, and then of course from having

Barbara and Jenna here. But Barbara and Jenna took Sasha and Malia ona tour of the White House, showed them all the fun, you know, great things

to do. This is a terrific house for hide- and-seek. And they showed them

how to slide down the ramp from the Solarium. I think those little girls will

have a wonderful time living here.

KING: It has got to be an abnormal place, isn't it, Mr. President, to raise

children?

G. BUSH: Well, ours were gone. They were college kids.

KING: Wouldn't you guess?

G. BUSH: No, I don't think. I think they're going to find that this is really

conducive to family life. President-Elect Obama has got a 45-second

commute to see his girls. I mean, he is right here. And presidents can --

you can set your schedule. I made sure that there was time on my

schedule to exercise every day. And I bet he'll make time to exercise and

make time to be with his little girls.

KING: What do you make of the criticism that has been leveled throughout

the eight years against Dick Cheney?


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G. BUSH: They don't know him like I know him. He is a good, solid guy, a

great patriot, very capable, very smart.

KING: Was he running the show? Come on, everyone said that. So you --

G. BUSH: Of course not.

KING: You ran the show?

G. BUSH: Absolutely.

KING: Do you think -- and on him too, do you think you have been bum-

rapped?

L. BUSH: I think he has been.

G. BUSH: Thank you, darling.

KING: Why? It's not nefarious. It's people who obviously think decisions

were wrong?

L. BUSH: A lot of times I think a lot of it was very personal and demeaning.

And I don't think that serves our country well. It was not all on decisions, by

any means. I think there was a very strong and critical voice from the other

side. I think it was smaller than it seemed like, because it was so loud. But I

think that's -- I don't think that's good for our country.

KING: You felt bum-rapped, that they were like out to harm you, get you?

G. BUSH: I don't know.

L. BUSH: He didn't pay that much attention.

G. BUSH: Look, Larry, when you are the president of the United States in

traumatic times and you have got a lot of the issues coming your way, you


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spend time solving problems. There is no such thing as short-term history. I

mean people are -- people will look back and put this administration in

perspective to those that have come before me and those that will come

after me. And they will analyze whether or not decisions I made the country

safer and, you know, more secure. And I am comfortable that I have givenevery decision a good hard look and that I have given it my all and that I

put my country first.

KING: Do you care about --

G. BUSH: Do I care that Hollywood is out there bloviating about me? Not

really. Do you like to be liked? Of course.

KING: Don't you want to be liked?

G. BUSH: Kind of. You really want to be liked on the day that really matters,

when you are running for president, election day. See in 2004, I really

wanted to be liked a lot that November, where I got over 50 percent of the

vote, the first president to have done so since 1988.

KING: That's liked?

G. BUSH: That's what matters. That is the one poll that counts. The rest of

the stuff is just -- you can make a poll say anything you want. And it's just --

it doesn't bother me. What bothers me is knowing that I made decisions

based upon principles and that I would not sell my soul in order to chase

popularity.

KING: Our remaining moments with the president and Mrs. Bush after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back with our remaining moments with the president and first

lady of the United States. Pardons; are we going to have some? You are

not going to be specific. Will pardons come?


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G. BUSH: I am not going to talk about them. KING: Why? They're logical.

G. BUSH: Because I don't feel like talking about them and I'm not going to.

If there are any coming, you will find out about it in due course.

KING: Due course, meaning you have a week.

L. BUSH: Exactly. You will find out soon.

G. BUSH: Actually less.

KING: So it will be less than a week.

G. BUSH: Yes.

KING: You don't have to? It's not required?

G. BUSH: No.

KING: You don't have to do any pardons?

G. BUSH: I don't have to do any. I can do some. Nor do I have to talk about

it.

KING: What is life going to be like? I know how much you love baseball.

We spent two hours in the Oval Office once talking baseball.

G. BUSH: Right.

KING: If Bud Selig retires, which he probably will pretty soon, would you be

commissioner?

G. BUSH: No, no.


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KING: Would you get back into the game?

G. BUSH: No. I'm going to be a fan. I'll keep knowledgeable so I can hang

in there with you when it comes time to talk modern, current baseball.

KING: You know it pretty good.

G. BUSH: Not as well as you do. But thank you. I am going to be involved

with building a Presidential Center at Southern Methodist University, to

which will be attached a library and archives. And I'm probably going to

write a book. I intend to write a book. And other than that, I will be --

become involved with different projects that I'm interested in. I'm interested

in HIV/AIDS, help dealing with HIV/AIDS on the continent of Africa, dealingwith the malaria initiative that we started on the continent of Africa. I'm

interested in good ocean policy. I like my mountain bikes. I like national

parks. There will be a lot of things to do.

KING: What are you going to do, Laura? L. BUSH: I'm going to do all those

same things. I'm going to write a book. I'm going to keep working with

women in Afghanistan, keep talking about how important it is for the U.S. to

stand with them as they try to build a life after they finally were freed from

the oppressive Taliban.

KING: You will be active?

L. BUSH: I am going to be active. Yes, sure, we are both going to be active.

We're looking forward to it.

KING: Upon reflection, two more things: was Katrina the lowest point

beyond foreign the entanglements and 9/11.

G. BUSH: I think being called a racist because of Katrina was a low point. I

can remember people saying George Bush is a racist because of the

response, when in fact, the truth of the matter is the response was pretty

darn quick, if you think about the fact that the Coast Guard and a lot of


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brave kids were pulling 30,000 people off of roofs as soon as the storm

passed, as soon as they found people on those roofs.

KING: But a lot of mistakes happened too.

G. BUSH: Well, yes, at all levels of government, absolutely.

KING: Do you think those mistakes, that we learned from them?

G. BUSH: No question. And that's a good thing about government. By the

way, we have had -- I don't know, we've had -- I want to say -- I know of,

sitting right here, eight hurricanes, major hurricanes, and seven and a half

were dealt with the way everybody expected them to be dealt with. TheMississippi part of Katrina was dealt with well, even though it was a really

horrible hurricane.

My brother was governor of Florida, and seven major hurricanes hit there.

And the response was always pretty good. It's the response out of New

Orleans and Louisiana which was not as good as we would have liked.

KING: What's Jeb's future?

G. BUSH: I don't know. It's bright, if he chooses to go into politics. He is a

good guy.

KING: He is not going to run for the Senate. Did that surprise you?

G. BUSH: Yes, a little bit. I haven't talked to him since he made the

decision. It did -- I was hoping he would run. He is a really good guy, very

smart and capable.

KING: Anything -- I know you will be talking Thursday night. We have a

couple second left. Anything you want to say, and say? Hard to say good-

bye? L. BUSH: Well, I wanted to say I am very grateful for the opportunities

I have had because George is president. I have met wonderful people all


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over our country. And I appreciate all of their prayers and all of their support

and all of the millions of people who have thanked me. I appreciate that a

lot.

G. BUSH: I want to say it has been a huge honor to be president. I haveenjoyed it. And I have -- I've been amazed at the character of the American

people.

KING: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. President. Thank you, Laura.

We'll have reaction to our interview with the president and Mrs. Bush when

LARRY KING LIVE returns. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(NEWS BREAK)

KING: Let's welcome an our outstanding panel to discuss some politics.

David Gergen is with us in Indian Wells, California, senior adviser on CNN

and is a former adviser to five presidents. Jim VandeHei is executive editor

of Politico. Hillary Rosen is a CNN political contributor, and editor at large at

the "Huffington Post." And Kevin Madden, Republican strategist and former

senior adviser to Mitt Romney's campaign. He's senior vice president of the

Glover Park Group.

David, what is going to be, in your opinion, the legacy of George W. Bush?

DAVID GERGEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I thought the

most interesting thing about the conversation you had with George W. Bush

and his wife, Laura, Larry, was the disconnect between the two of them,

especially the president, and the rest -- much of the country. He out there

very proud, self-assured, confident about his record, thought there were not

many mistakes made. And you have got a public that, for the most part -- of

course, there are Bush partisans. But the public, for the most part, is very

unhappy with his record, very eager to see him go, really, really wants to


31/36

turn a page, start a new chapter, looking forward to Obama and not to

bush.

So, you know, in that sense, the public would make very harsh judgments

today. I think -- I think historians would make even harsher judgments. Asof the moment, he would be on probably the lowest rung among failed

presidents for historians. Things may change. Attitudes do change, Arthur

Schlesinger Jr., the historian, taught us. If Iraq turns out better than it has

been, things really improve in the Middle East, and other things turn

around, history may look upon him more kindly.

But right now, the verdict is extremely harsh and negative.

KING: Jim, it is kind of an enigma the way he reacts to what is really

happening? JIM VANDEHEI, POLITICO.COM: It is. Listen, since 2001, you

asked him the question, did you change after 9/11. Of course he changed.

He changed profoundly. I think both he and Dick Cheney did. They became

obsessed with prosecuting the war on terror and then obsessed with

prosecuting the war in Iraq. He does that almost not paying attention to

other issues, often.

You asked him about the economy or he's asked about the economy

yesterday in the press conference, it's not that he dismisses it. But it's clear

he has so much more passion and so much more interest and so much

more focus on fighting terrorism. I think he rationalizes -- I'm not a

psychologist, but I think he does tend to rationalize his presidency by

saying, listen, nobody got hit. You have no idea how much danger lurks out

there. We've kept you from getting attacked on my watch.

KING: Kevin, what's your read?

KEVIN MADDEN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Jim uses the word

obsessed. I think that the president after 9/11 became very focused on the

war on terror. He did see that his most important job was to keep this

country safe and that he and Dick Cheney were largely successful in that


32/36

endeavor. And it was not just done by George Bush, but it was done in

concert with other folks who helped us redevelop our policies for a stronger

posture.

KING: Why isn't the public buying it?

MADDEN: To David's point, I don't believe legacies are -- they're not made

in an instant. Legacies grow. Legacies take time. They take oxygen and

they essentially take a little bit of hindsight in order to establish and really

fully weigh a person's legacy. I think, in the end, that this president will be

remembered for actually strengthened for the executive institution and for

keeping this country safe at a very dangerous time.

KING: Hillary?

HILLARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think there's somewhat of

a disconnect, which is in part why the public doesn't buy it, between really

why we went to war in the first place and what we're doing there now. You

know, we went there to find weapons of mass destruction and then he said,

well, I was disappointed about not finding them. Are you angry? I don't get

angry, he said.

You pressed him on the point, I thought, very well. You send our young men

into harm's way and you're not angry that our purpose wasn't achieved.

And then he did what I think the Bush administration did for several years,

which was then made it be about you're disloyal to the troops if somehow

you question whether or not we should have been in the war. Well, Larry, I

talked to the parent of these soldiers and they believe in this war; well, it

becomes a circular argument.

The other one point I thought you asked him, which I was kind of shocked

at his answer, was when you asked about bin Laden. Have we ever been

close to finding bin Laden? I don't know. I don't know, he said. It's kind of

shocking, though, that he would be so cavalier about that response. I was

impressed with the honesty.


33/36

KING: Let me get a break and we'll come back with Gergen, VandeHei,

Rosen and Madden. Sounds like a law firm down the street. We'll be right

back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: We're back. Hillary Clinton was grilled today about Bill Clinton's

global fund-raising and the potential for conflicts of interest as she becomes

secretary of state. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The core of the problem that I perceive with regard

to the Clinton Foundation is that it may be perceived as a means to gain

favor with the secretary of state.

SEN. HILLARY CLINTON (D), NEW YORK: I will certainly do everything in

my power to make sure that the good work of the foundation continues

without there being any untoward effects on me and my service, and be

very conscious of any questions that are raised.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: David Gergen, did she handle that well?

GERGEN: I thought she did. One thing ought to be clear up front. Bill

Clinton's foundation has done lots of good things overseas, HIV/AIDS, a

number of other causes to which it's contributed significantly, very much in

the footsteps of what Jimmy Carter has done with his center, but different.

Are there going to be conflicts of interest? Sure. But I think that they have

tried to button it up, with an agreement for transparency, for accounting, for

clearances in advance in the future.

They've made the 200,000 names available for everybody to see. And it's


34/36

sort of -- I think it's going to become a story of the past. We're going to be

focusing far more on can she solve Gaza within a week, and much less on

the foundation.

KING: David Gergen, thanks always for joining us. We'll be here for anothernine days in Washington. We'll be calling on you a lot. Jim VandeHei, how

do you read the Hillary thing? She's going to be almost unanimously

approved.

VANDEHEI: Listen, she's probably the most scrutinized woman in American

history. She knew exactly what she was going to be asked, so we all knew

that she would do fine in these hearings. I think Republicans have a

legitimate concern about the fact that foreign entities can still move moneyinto Bill Clinton's foundation. Yes, there will be more disclosure and

certainly more disclosure than we have had in the past.

It's an unusual situation, because it's a former president overseas, in some

ways, a bigger personality than his wife, who will be secretary of state. I

think that's what Dick Lugar was trying to get at. They're not going to try to

do anything else. She made it clear they have gone as far as they're going

to go on the disclosure side. I think she'll easily be confirmed.

KING: Why is she so popular with Republicans, Kevin? It appears --

MADDEN: Now, she's popular now.

KING: She's popular in the Senate with Republicans.

MADDEN: She is. I think she has done a -- I think Senator Clinton has

done a very good job of carving out a niche as a pragmatist. And she's also

shown a certain level of hyper-competency on a lot of these issues. In the

Senate, it's a very collegiate place. Folks like to at least genuflect towards

those that are -- that show they have a great deal of knowledge and a

willingness to learn and also adhere to the protocols and cadence of the

Senate. I think Senator Clinton has done very well there, and I think there


35/36

are similar obstacles -- I should say challenges at State Department, that

they do have certain protocols and cadences there that I think she's going

to be very adept at navigating.

This is a sort of new Hillary. The old Hillary was a very ideological partisan.And the new Hillary is seen as a pragmatist and a centrist on a lot of these

issues.

KING: Does that lend us to think that she'll be -- your other Hillary friend --

a terrific secretary of state?

ROSEN: I think she's going to be a great secretary of state. I think she

showed why today. The Senate respects a work horse and I think Americarespects a work horse. And they saw today, I think, somebody who was

extraordinarily prepared, really thoughtful, really loyal to President-Elect

Obama, and very much sees herself as part of the Obama national security

team. And that's how she was in the Senate. She was a team player with

really focused goals.

KING: I guess you'd know better than the rest of us, Kevin. We only have a

minute left. Are the Republicans going to take on Tim Geithner?

MADDEN: I think that these are very -- this is a vetting process that is going

to go through and it's going to go forward. I do think that there is not a lot of

an appetite for blood on this and that --

KING: Even though he didn't pay taxes for --

MADDEN: Right. I think that's whey it -- somebody who is going to be the

head of the department that has the IRS in it is going to have answer some

of these tough questions. I think right now the mood is very weary, given

the economic conditions that we face, that this is not going to derail.

Typically, issues like this derail nominations when they're a surprise. I think

the Obama campaign knew about this, had fully vetted it, and had a robust

explanation for senators, as well as the public. KING: He knows his stuff,


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apparently.

MADDEN: He is very well respected and admired up on Capitol Hill.

KING: Thank you all very much. We'll have you back. We'll be here for anumber of days in Washington, despite the fact that it is cold. We'll be in

Washington this week and next. And if you have questions or comments,

go to CNN.com/LarryKing and click on our blog.

Tomorrow, the mystery pilot is here -- the mystery pilot's friend is here. And

he'll help us unravel the tangled mess that began as a plane crash and has

now turned into a nation-wide manhunt. It's a wild one, for sure. Speaking

of wild ones, always wild, he's Anderson Cooper, the host of "AC 360."Anderson, what's up?

Video Link to Interview
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president bush and laura bush on larry king live, january 13, 2009, exit interview

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