ohio south youth soccer association board of directors ... 032117.pdf · ohio south youth soccer...
TRANSCRIPT
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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OHIO SOUTH YOUTH SOCCER ASSOCIATION
BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING
ROBERTS CENTRE
MARCH 21, 2017
6:30 P.M.
- - -
ATTENDEES
John Ruffolo, PresidentMike Martini, Vice-President
Craig Manahan, SecretaryGeorge Sauer, TreasurerJim Sturm, Registrar
Jeff RossiKen BaldeosinghSteve Blieden
Sean CookSean Palmer
Rich MulvaneySolly HiltonBahia SalahTim Feldman
Mohamood Razack
Bud Manley, Vice-Chairman of Region II andState Cup Chairman
BJ Jabbari, State Youth Referee Adm.
Tom Frisbie, Executive Director and StateCommissioner
- - -
Scott RodgersBrian BerningLesh Shkreli
Michael Cockerell
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MR. RUFFOLO: We'll call the
meeting to order at 6:30. Can I have a
motion to adopt the agenda?
MR. STURM: I would like to --
it's my understanding that we're going to
have a presentation from an organization that
would like to talk about their State Cup
forfeiture.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Before we
get to that, do we have a motion for the
agenda?
MR. MANAHAN: Motion to approve
the agenda.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, second.
Now, what do you want to change?
MR. STURM: I would like to
modify the agenda to allow a discussion from
the organization, which we believe is here,
to allow them to play in the 2017 State Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: I will move that
into, right before old business.
MR. STURM: I think that would
be an excellent plan.
MR. SAUER: Also, I'd like to
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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add an item under new business, the report
from the Financial Committee about Gordon
and --
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes, that will be
at the end, make that 6 (h) because that will
be executive session.
MR. MANAHAN: I have something
to add as well.
MR. RUFFOLO: What do you got?
MR. MANAHAN: I have a proposed
rule change for the State Cup rules, it's
really actually a pretty small one but need
to add that.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Under new
business we'll make that (h), and then we'll
make the executive contracts (i). Any other
changes? All in favor?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you. We
passed out the minutes from the last meeting,
do we have any comments, concerns, or
anything like that? And if not, can I have a
motion to approve?
MR. MANAHAN: Motion to approve
it.
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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MR. BALDEOSINGH: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Second, Kenny.
All in favor? Anyone opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you. We
have a new Treasurer.
MR. SAUER: Yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: You got a report,
George?
MR. SAUER: Well, yes and no. I
mean, we've sat here for many years on these
reports and nobody's ever asked any
questions. So I thought my first part, A,
everybody's got the paper here, is, what are
we looking for as a board, what information I
can bring to every meeting to you to help us,
guide us?
I mean, we all look at these and
we all kind of stare at them and, oh, okay,
we've got 1.5 million, this year we had 1.6,
and we go over them all, but is there
anything I can do to help us have a better
understanding or does anybody have any
specific questions they want to have about
the Treasurer's reports? And that's going to
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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be part of my report.
My other part is, everybody got
the review from the lawyers -- I mean the
accountants. There was one sentence, I don't
know if anybody else caught it, and it talked
about we draw your attention to the summary
of significant accounting policies noted in
the financial statements, and it says, which
is a basis of accounting other than the
standard accounting principals generally
accepted in the United States, is what we
use.
So I had Tom research it with
the accountants, and they responded basically
that we don't do accrual accounting. And
that's typically what we're doing in the
United States.
So I just wanted to enter that
into the report of what their accountant said
so that it's in our record, so if everybody
else looks at the review they'll see what, I
mean, so -- but everybody can review that. I
just made five copies, I didn't get one for
everybody.
MR. RUFFOLO: We'll just pass it
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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around and then we'll just keep one for you,
Tom, I think.
MR. SAUER: But basically most
businesses, which we're not a business, use
accrual. And it was just kind of weird to
see that statement, it's not generally in the
United States, so that's why I talked to Tom
about it.
But other than that, if there's
anybody -- what, you know, please email me or
email the board, what information, I mean,
looking at all these numbers sometimes we
just, we say, oh, you know, let's go on. But
is there anything we can do better to help us
understand what's going on financially in the
business --
MR. RUFFOLO: George, when I
look at these things what I'm looking for is
any big changes in income or losses, okay?
Why do we have increased expenses, what's
going on if we had losses on income, okay?
If we have increased income, I'm loving that,
but that's usually not the case. So that's
what I'm looking for when I look at these
things. And if I see we're on the same page
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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pretty much each time we meet, I'm okay.
MR. SAUER: Okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: Anybody else have
any comments?
MR. MANAHAN: Just anything
that's outside the budget, you know, that's a
strange amount budget-wise and, you know,
what John said is exactly. Other than that,
my eyes just glaze over.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. We've got
your income statement and your balance sheet,
is there anything you want to indicate on
that other than what it says?
MR. SAUER: No, I just want you
to say that, speaking of our assets, I think
our assets are up 1.6 versus 1.5 at this time
last year.
MR. RUFFOLO: Tom, is there a
reason why we're up? We didn't pay something
that we paid early last year? Because that's
a significant amount.
MR. FRISBIE: We are looking at
an increase in registration fees over last
year.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Anybody
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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else have any questions on that?
MR. MULVANEY: What did Tom say?
MR. FRISBIE: We increased
registration fees this year and they're going
to be increasing again for the recreational
side for fall.
MR. MULVANEY: Oh, okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. SAUER: Thank you for your
information and we'll do better next time.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. We did
fine. Our guests, Mo, do they want to come
in and make their presentation?
MR. RAZACK: I couldn't find
him. They're not out there.
MR. RUFFOLO: I could have sworn
he was right out -- okay, we'll push him
back. There he is.
(Lesh Shkreli and Michael
Cockerell joined the meeting.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Lesh, why don't
you grab a couple of chairs right over here.
And, Lesh, I hate to call you on
the carpet now, but we're ready for you. If
you want to introduce yourselves and then,
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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obviously this is the board, if you want to
have us ask you any questions, we'll be happy
to do so. But right now if you want to make
your statement, and go forward from there.
MR. STURM: Just for the sake of
brevity of the meeting since we have a full,
full agenda, I would like to ask that the
presentation by them be limited to about five
minutes, with about five minutes set aside
for questioning as appropriate.
MR. RUFFOLO: Is five minutes
enough for you to make your presentation?
MR. SHKRELI: I mean, I got
30 seconds.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, well, then
we should be okay.
MR. SHKRELI: My name is Lesh
Shkreli, this is Michael Cockerell. You know
what -- you want me to stand up? Okay.
The issue I have in a little bit
is with the decision with the U17 State Cup.
You know what happened last year. Our
intention was never to cheat, to get the
upper hand on the State Cup.
Our administrator made a
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mistake, she forgot to put the player on the
roster, but the player belonged to the team.
That's the argument we have and we feel that
that's our case.
MR. RUFFOLO: You're saying the
player belonged to the team?
MR. SHKRELI: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Why wasn't
he on the roster properly?
MR. SHKRELI: She just, somehow
she just -- I don't know what happened.
MR. RUFFOLO: He was not
included on the roster?
MR. SHKRELI: He was on the
roster, but not on the blue roster that day.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. COCKERELL: Hi, everybody.
I'm Mike Cockerell. So the admin last
year -- and I'm the admin for the team this
year. I was the U16 admin last year. The
U15 team was the team in question.
The player was on the roster,
the regular roster, she forgot to put him on
the blue roster. And what happened was it
got overlooked the first game and he played,
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and the second game is when the refs saw it
and, you know, they said you can't play,
you're not on the blue roster.
And the young man said, well, I
played last game. So then they said, well,
okay, well, you'll have to forfeit the games.
And this is the understanding I had from the
team admin from last year.
So it was just an honest mistake
that she forgot to put him on the blue
roster. It was a kid that, you know, was not
a starter, was a sub, he didn't play, and I
think essentially we just kind of felt that
the punishment didn't fit the crime. It
wasn't the intention, it was just kind of an
unfortunate incident that we didn't see it
until it was a bit too late. They didn't
catch it at the first game and they caught it
the game after.
MR. RUFFOLO: You guys are aware
our rules indicate that when a forfeit occurs
I believe the next year --
MR. STURM: I have the rule
verbatim if you would like me to read it.
MR. RUFFOLO: Why don't we do
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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that.
MR. STURM: Ohio South By-Law
10.5.2. Any team where it has been proved
that they used an ineligible player in
District, State, Regional or National
competition is not eligible to compete
further in the competition in the current
seasonal year and shall not be allowed to
compete in the following year's State Cup or
President's Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. My question
to you is why was this not addressed until
right before applications went in?
MR. SHKRELI: Honestly, I really
don't know.
MR. COCKERELL: From my
understanding --
MR. RUFFOLO: Go ahead.
MR. COCKERELL: -- the team
admin said that when she went to the tent
last year on the Sunday, and I don't know
who, and again it's hearsay, she was told
that it won't count against them for the
following year.
She -- they understood it was
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just a simple mistake and it would not count
against him the following year, especially
since, you know, they, you know, said what
happened, they, you know, said that they
forfeited the game, which she understood
because of her mistake.
And we went ahead with
everything and we figured everything was okay
because, I mean, we essentially were in the
initial seedings or at least on the list for
the seedings, so there was nothing that was
ever -- and plus because the team now, since
it's, you know, the age groups are different,
there's only I think four or five kids from
that team on this team, a lot are still from
last year's U16 team. I think there's nine
new players and maybe five existing.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Jim?
MR. STURM: This was addressed
in part at the State Cup seeding meeting on
February the 20th. And in that meeting I did
ask Bud Manley as the State Cup Chair
specifically when this rule was shown, was it
proved that they had played with an
ineligible player. Bud, would you relate to
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the board your statement?
MR. MANLEY: Yeah. And I can
really can attest to this because at that
particular time I was at the field when the
boy played the self-schedule game.
And as I put on the original
memo that you guys got for the, for the
telephone vote, what -- and I'll correct one
thing. When the administrators came to the
tent, I told them that I would take it to the
State Cup Committee. At the State Cup
Committee I was -- the committee said that I
didn't have the authority to take it to that
committee. So I made an error.
But that being said, you know, I
felt it was an honest mistake. I mean, Tom
was there at the time that she came. She
was, she was pretty upset that all this
happened, but, I mean, I knew the kid played
because I was there at that same
self-scheduled game.
Now, a couple things that are
probably a little bit in mitigation,
obviously the referees did not check the
roster for the match, so that was kind of one
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mistake.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: At the first
game?
MR. MANLEY: Yes.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: That's why
they allowed the player to play?
MR. MANLEY: Yeah. So then, I
mean, at that point if that would have
happened then they would have, you know, saw
that the boy was not on the roster, you know,
it could have been a moot point at that
point.
So it was, you know, so then Tom
and I -- and that's exactly what I told them
when they came at the second match in the
Round Robin, that we, we told her, you know,
hey, can't play, you'll forfeit your matches.
And I told them I would take it to the State
Cup Committee, which is what I did, you know.
MR. STURM: But my question is,
on February 20th, didn't you tell the State
Cup Committee that it was proved they played
with an ineligible player?
MR. MANLEY: Yes. I mean,
that's in essence what happened.
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MR. STURM: Tom?
MR. MANLEY: Not an unregistered
player.
MR. STURM: No, I said
ineligible.
MR. MANLEY: Right.
MR. STURM: Tom, when you were
part of that decision on that Saturday, at
that time did you tell people from the Blast
organization that they couldn't play anymore
in this year's tournament or they had to
forfeit their games in the 2016 tournament
and they would be ineligible for the 2017
tournament?
MR. FRISBIE: I read all the
by-laws, State Cup by-laws pertaining to that
exact situation regarding forfeiting of that
game due to using an ineligible player,
forfeiture of the rest of their games due to
forfeiture of any game in State Cup, and the
inability to participate in President's Cup
or State Cup the following year.
MR. STURM: At any time since
then did they file an appeal as required by
the Ohio South rules?
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MR. FRISBIE: Not to the best of
my knowledge.
MR. STURM: You and I have
talked about this situation, did you reach
out to anybody else to get their
interpretation of what should transpire?
MR. FRISBIE: I did. At that
time Bud and I worked with Jim Martella, the
National Championship Series Chair, to make
sure the decision we were making was correct,
and that was verified by Jim Martella.
MR. STURM: So the National
Chairman of the National Championship Series
thought the player should be -- was
ineligible and the game should be forfeited
by the rules?
MR. FRISBIE: Correct.
MR. RUFFOLO: Tom, did they
forfeit the rest of the games then?
MR. FRISBIE: Correct.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Anybody
else have any questions or comments?
MR. MANAHAN: Is there a
specific decision that you guys are looking
for from us on this?
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MR. RUFFOLO: We're not going to
do that at this point.
MR. MANAHAN: I'm just asking
the question.
MR. RUFFOLO: We're just, we're
hearing what they have to say first.
MR. STURM: I do have one other
question. Tom, has play already started in
the 2017 State Cup in that age group?
MR. FRISBIE: It has.
MR. STURM: So if they were
allowed back in, we'd have to restructure the
play?
MR. FRISBIE: I would have to --
I would probably have to verify with the
National Championship Series Chair to
determine if that's applicable.
MR. RUFFOLO: Can they do a
play-in game with the team to get into a
spot?
MR. FRISBIE: Well, the teams
have already seeded and teams have already
started playing games. Completed games.
MR. SAUER: They were seeded,
what, originally 12th, I think?
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MR. FRISBIE: I don't remember.
MR. SAUER: But if the 12th
seeded has not played a game then they could
play in the 12th seed?
MR. FRISBIE: I don't know how
many play-ins there were but there are
already play-in games being played, so
theoretically you'd have to re-seed.
MR. RUFFOLO: How many teams are
in that age group?
MR. STURM: If I remember
correctly from the seeding meeting, I think
there was 17, because we had one play-in
game.
MR. RUFFOLO: You had one
play-in game?
MR. STURM: And with them being
12th, it's my understanding they were out,
everybody else moved up a seed, so now we've
got --
MR. RUFFOLO: No play-in games.
MR. STURM: We have no play-in
games but you have different match-ups
because everybody moved up in the standings
or in the bracketing.
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MR. RUFFOLO: All right. All
this generate any comments from you guys?
MR. COCKERELL: The only thing I
would like to just say is, you know, it's, it
was an unfortunate incident. I think if you
look at the grand, the larger picture, at
least in my eyes, it's, you know, the kids
that want to play, that don't understand the
hierarchy of this part, you know, that are
the ones that are going to suffer for this.
They just want the opportunity to play.
It was just a simple mistake.
And again, I just, I just feel that the
punishment does not fit the crime, I mean, it
just, it was a mistake.
I mean, everybody in this room
has made a simple mistake here or there.
They just want the opportunity to play. I
mean, they don't care who or when or
whatever, it just doesn't seem fair to them.
And I understand, I understand
what is involved in this and I understand
everything, but again it just, it was an
unfortunate mistake that wasn't not only
caught by us but wasn't caught by the
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referees as well.
MR. MANAHAN: So, Tom, you said
you read the rules when this all happened,
including the part about the punishment for
this year, right?
MR. FRISBIE: Yeah, at the time
we were with Marcia Bailey who I believe was
the manager of the team, she came to us at
some point possibly during the second game to
add a player to the roster, and that's when
Bud and I kind of were like that -- can't do
that.
And at that point I said if
you've played an ineligible player you would
have to forfeit not only this game but all of
your games. And she became a little bit --
MR. MANAHAN: And next year?
And you won't be able to enter next year?
MR. FRISBIE: Not at that point.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay.
MR. FRISBIE: I brought her into
the tent, at which point I read through each
and every rule for her so she would be aware
of all the impact of what she was about to --
because we were just discovering this also.
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And I read through everything at that point.
We got Jim Martella on the phone and we made
a decision there.
MR. MANAHAN: So, I mean, my
question, given that, why are we just hearing
about it now instead of a year ago? From you
guys, why are we not --
MR. RUFFOLO: That was my
question.
MR. COCKERELL: My
understanding, and again I was with a
different team, my understanding from
speaking with Marcia was that she was under
the impression that, again she was told that
it wouldn't affect the team for next year.
I think that, you know, I
understand that he read the rules, but with a
few other people that might have been in that
tent saying different things --
MR. FRISBIE: She was distraught
at the time, she was pretty shaken up about
it.
MR. COCKERELL: The reason she's
not here tonight is she just felt too much
anxiety. So it's, you know, that's a lot to
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take in when that happens and you have to
explain to a team of 15-year-olds at that
time, 14, 15-year-old kids, so who knows if
she was in her right mind or not.
But, you know, again she was
probably told, you know, probably heard some
different things in her head that, you know,
they won't have to worry about it next year,
or, and then hearing this, maybe she was just
confused about all the different things that
she heard in that tent.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay.
MR. COCKERELL: And then as soon
as we found out that they were out of the
seeding is when we started putting together
emails and letters and trying to find out.
MR. SHKRELI: But to be honest
with you guys, I mean, I'm going to take full
responsibility. I'm the one who put too much
blame she made a mistake, to be honest with
you. If there has to be a punishment, I
think I'd rather get the punishment, not the
team, to be real honest with you.
And the reason I say that is
because, who knows, maybe I probably should
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have followed up right away but I was under
the impression since the new age changes and
stuff like that, because nothing came across,
because our intention wasn't to cheat. And I
think that would have came quick or I would
have heard, you know, since our intention
wasn't to cheat.
And that's kind of how I see
everything, kind of just went around the
whole year not noticed, you know what I'm
saying?
But if it comes to suspension or
anything, I think I'd rather me not coaching
as a suspension of that team than the team
not to play. I mean, I'm fully aware of
that, I mean, I, I mean, I'd rather get a
suspension.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I think
that's all we have for today. Thank you.
MR. COCKERELL: We appreciate
you guys letting us talk.
MR. RUFFOLO: And we'll take it
under advisement right now.
MR. SHKRELI: Thank you.
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you very
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much. Appreciate all you're doing for soccer
though.
MR. COCKERELL: Thank you.
(Lesh Shkreli and Michael
Cockerell left the meeting.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, let's go
back to our old business. Appointments. We
have to appoint an alternate Risk Management
Coordinator.
MR. STURM: I would nominate Tom
Frisbie for that role. He has served in that
role for a long time, a number of years.
MR. FRISBIE: Six.
MR. RUFFOLO: Isn't it my
appointment?
MR. STURM: No, actually not.
MR. RUFFOLO: No, it's got to be
approved? Okay.
MR. STURM: It's just like any
other officer.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Any second
on that?
MR. COOK: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: All in favor?
Anyone opposed?
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(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you. We now
have to approve an additional approver of
invoices. Jim?
MR. STURM: That is your
appointment, subject to board approval.
MR. RUFFOLO: And I would -- at
this point who approves them, George?
MR. STURM: No. The board
approves it. You name somebody, the board --
MR. MANAHAN: Who approves the
invoices today?
MR. STURM: Tom as executive
director, you, or George.
MR. RUFFOLO: George.
MR. STURM: But there's a
provision --
MR. RUFFOLO: To appoint
somebody else?
MR. STURM: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: And I would like
to nominate Mike Martini.
MR. STURM: I move to support
the nomination by the President of Mike
Martini as additional approver.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Mike, I know you
don't know this, but you're it.
MR. MARTINI: Yeah, I got it,
that's all right.
MS. STURM: I made that a
motion, too.
MR. RUFFOLO: Any second?
MR. MANAHAN: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: All in favor?
Anyone opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you. The
authorization for issuance of credit cards in
OSYSA name. Jim?
MR. STURM: No, that is your
direct appointment for the next three items.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, it's got
your name there.
MR. STURM: No, I just put it on
the agenda.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Don't we
already have credit cards in OSYSA's name?
MR. FRISBIE: We do in the --
MR. STURM: The rule says you
have to approve the issuance of those. Not
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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that you approve somebody else to do it, but
you approve that they can be issued.
MR. FRISBIE: I don't know, is
there any action due now?
MR. STURM: Well, in theory it
should have happened in January if you've
been using the Ohio South credit card.
MR. FRISBIE: Me?
MR. STURM: Or anybody.
MR. RUFFOLO: He's been -- yes,
everybody, yes, they use it. So I authorize
Tom to get the credit card from American
Express, right?
MR. FRISBIE: We have credit
cards from Twin Valley, we have credit cards
from American Express.
MR. STURM: As needed.
MR. RUFFOLO: As need. Anybody
agree? All in favor?
MR. STURM: Actually, John, it's
not a vote.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, that's all
right, we'll just go to the next one.
MS. STURM: We just want it in
the minutes is what we're trying to do.
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MR. RUFFOLO: All right.
Executive director appointee, subject to the
approval of the President, a second person
authorized to approve tournaments. I would
like to -- I believe that's Carol right now,
or she no longer --
MR. STURM: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: Who's our first
one, Tom?
MR. STURM: Tom is the State
Commissioner, he approves. I would suggest,
Tom, that Pam be an appropriate person, she's
probably most familiar with those
tournaments.
MR. FRISBIE: I already told
her.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. So
I've appointed Pam to do that, it's on the
record.
MR. FRISBIE: Did we skip item
four?
MR. RUFFOLO: We did the
Treasurer's report.
MR. FRISBIE: (a) (iv).
MR. RUFFOLO: Oh, I'm sorry. We
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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need an additional person to approve expense
reports and who's the first one to approve
it? It's Tom and then me?
MR. STURM: You.
MR. RUFFOLO: And an additional
one, Mike Martini.
MR. STURM: That's all we need.
MR. RUFFOLO: You good?
MR. MARTINI: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right, thank
you. Let's see, set dollar amount to be
included with an appeal to OSYSA Appeals
Committee, a maximum of $300. What do our
rules call for right now?
MR. STURM: The new constitution
says the board sets the amount up to a
maximum of $300.
MR. RUFFOLO: What is the
current amount for an appeal, Tom?
MR. STURM: $50.
MR. RUFFOLO: $50? Do we have
any motions on setting the maximum?
MR. STURM: I would set the
appeal amount to be included with any appeal
at $300.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Any second on
that?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Any discussion?
All in favor? Anyone opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. Tom,
Risk Management.
MR. FRISBIE: That's going to be
the issue that you --
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. In your
packet Jim provided for us some proposed
changes, after speaking a little -- I believe
he spoke with Greg Page on some of the items.
MR. STURM: John, I have not
spoken to him. What this is, Tom passed this
out at the January meeting and I took a look
at it, and the stuff that's in the gray
highlight is stuff that I was wanting to go
to Greg to get his opinion on some of the
questions.
Some of it, you know, we know
that we don't do anymore, and so when we're
redoing it I thought we ought to just really
clean it up top to bottom.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I spoke
with Greg today, I had about an hour
conference with him going through this. He's
got a lot of different comments.
What I would like is, can we
have a committee set up just to meet with him
and go through with all his comments, because
I didn't want to make those yea, nay, or
whatever, I think it has to come from a
committee.
And I know we used to have a
committee but I think we have to appoint a
new one. So I would like to appoint, Jim,
obviously you. Mike, I'm not going to
appoint you, okay?
MR. MARTINI: Okay.
MR. SAUER: Somebody's raising
his hand back here.
MR. STURM: Yeah, put Rossi on
it.
MR. SAUER: Mr. Rossi.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, I was going
to get three, not from, from each -- one from
each district.
MR. STURM: Here's a point of
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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order. With the new constitution,
board-established committees are subject to
the veto. So you don't necessarily have to
have somebody from each district on it, which
we always did in the past so they're balanced
if it ever came to the board with a majority
vote kind of, and veto.
With the new constitution,
board-established committees, which this
would be, goes -- the veto rule applies. So
if some district isn't represented on a
committee and the district doesn't like it --
MR. RUFFOLO: Mr. Rossi, do you
want to still be on that committee from the
old times?
MR. ROSSI: It doesn't make a
difference to me.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. Mr.
Mulvaney, would you be willing to be on that?
MR. STURM: That's you, Rich.
MR. MULVANEY: With these two
guys? I'm kidding, all right? That's fine,
I'll do it, yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I think --
yeah, Mr. Rossi?
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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MR. ROSSI: Go ahead. I had
another comment to add after you finish this.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. And, Sean,
would you also like to be on that committee?
MR. PALMER: Sure.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right, that
way we have one from each district. And I
think what we'll try to do, so you guys don't
have to meet somewhere, is get it on a
conference call, because it will take some
time but it won't take forever to go through
it, okay?
MR. STURM: Okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: It took us an hour
and so now he knows where everything's at
when we reviewed it, and it shouldn't take
that long, and hopefully you guys will have
it reviewed prior to that. And then report
back to us at our next meeting, okay?
MR. STURM: Certainly.
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you.
MR. STURM: Jeff does have
another comment.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes.
MR. ROSSI: And just as an
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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addition, there's been changes made to that
particular background check stuff that's
effective in April, legislature passed at the
end of the year, so that will probably impact
going forward from April 6th.
MR. RUFFOLO: If you can get
that legislation to Greg --
MR. ROSSI: I've got it.
MR. RUFFOLO: Forward it to me
and I'll get it to Greg, okay?
MR. ROSSI: Yeah. It's minor
changes but it's going to be some more stuff.
MR. RUFFOLO: For everybody
here, if you're sending emails to me, if you
don't know, it's President@ -- oh, this is
impressive, huh? [email protected]. Okay?
I did not pick it. I did not pick it. But
anyway, if you would, send it there, that way
I know it's all about soccer. Okay?
MR. STURM: Grand supreme
commander was already taken?
MR. RUFFOLO: Jim, I think
that's yours.
MR. STURM: Oh, you're right, it
is.
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, tournament
sanctioning update. Mr. Frisbie?
MR. FRISBIE: Just an update to
let everybody know, updates to the tournament
sanctioning system. Carol Maas's signature
has been removed, mine has been implemented.
We have the lock, the lock will be put down
at the end of the month on the ability for
potential tournaments to apply within
120 days of their kick-off.
We are removing outdated leagues
that are no longer leagues with OSYSA. We
had some tournaments applying under outdated
leagues.
And we are going to be changing
some wording on the actual application and
remove some outdated wording.
And that should all be done by
the end of the month.
MR. RUFFOLO: Any questions or
comments?
MR. STURM: Tom, are they ever
going to be able to put the sanctioning date
on there, because the bottom of the form it
says date approved and there's never a date
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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approved on there.
MR. FRISBIE: Got it.
MR. JABBARI: I have a question.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes.
MR. JABBARI: Is there any
restriction on number of the tournaments or
can we restrict that to certain number on the
weekend, on a certain weekend, because we are
really have a difficulty having --
MR. COOK: For all Ohio South or
districts?
MR. JABBARI: No. For example,
the President's Cup weekend, the Round Robin,
we have five tournaments at the same time,
plus all of the league games, plus Buckeye
games, plus amateur league, and they're all
competing at the same time and we definitely
don't have enough referees for this. Somehow
we need to control the number.
MR. STURM: Here's the
challenge, BJ. If we say, okay, an Ohio
South rule, you can't do this, they'll just
card US Club and bypass us and then we have
no control over them whatsoever.
MR. JABBARI: I agree, but I
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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think we are definitely looking for failure
on these weekends.
MR. STURM: Well, as far as the
President's Cup round of 16, that actually
was moved up. So normally it's almost always
the first weekend of May, and in the calendar
it got moved up a weekend and the girls' Nike
and the Club X tournament in Xenia -- or, I'm
sorry, the Nike boys and the Club X
tournament has always been the end of April,
so in that situation the President's Cup
moved on a weekend that was traditionally the
other weekends.
MR. JABBARI: I'm not
questioning what has actually took place, but
realistically there's no way to support all
of these tournaments on the same weekend,
they're competing with each other and some of
these tournaments are offering incentives
that most of the other tournaments cannot
keep up with.
MR. RUFFOLO: You mean for
referees?
MR. JABBARI: For referees. Not
for the teams, but for the referees.
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MR. SAUER: Who gets to decide
which club makes money and which club doesn't
make money?
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, that's me.
MR. SAUER: No, I'm just saying
is it history if they'd had the tournament
forever, they get to keep it, and a new
tournament can't come on that date? I'm just
thinking what solution do you propose?
MR. JABBARI: I'm not
questioning that part. And I understand the
dilemma, I agree with Jim, I understand that
fully, but I think that we are definitely
heading for situations that you're going to
have a lot of games and a lot of tournaments
with one or two referees.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Or none.
MR. JABBARI: Or none.
MR. SAUER: So would it be
better to allow these people to fail and that
will take care of the problem itself? I
mean, all of a sudden now somebody comes up
and says, hey, don't go here, they can't get
refs, so the next year the tournament fails.
So they're going to have to go through a
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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process on their own.
MR. JABBARI: I agree, too.
MR. RAZACK: Isn't the process,
to apply for a tournament, isn't it supposed
to go to the ref assigner first and the ref
assigner approves it and then it comes to
you?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: No. It used
to be. Now you go directly. They don't even
go to the sanctioning league.
MR. RUFFOLO: Here's the problem
you have. Everybody wants a tournament.
They submit their forms properly, they get a
tournament, okay? The question that I think
BJ is trying to get us to consider is whether
we want to have some kind of rules or
guidelines as to how many tournaments can be
approved and how quickly they are, is it
first come first serve and so on and so
forth.
I don't know how we're going to
do that because I will tell you right now
that tournaments that have been going on for
years expect that weekend is going to be
their tournament and they're not going to
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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think anything else of it. And if it's a
race to Tom or Ohio South, we're going to
have a lot of problems.
It's quite obvious that it is a
problem. I mean, I've seen it, I've
witnessed it. Some tournaments you look and
there's only two referees there, if you're
lucky, okay, especially at the younger age
groups.
So, George, I agree with you, if
they fail then they fail. At some point in
time it's the product that's out on the
field, and if you have a good tournament
that's where everybody's going to go.
MR. MANAHAN: Or if you pay the
refs the most.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, that's a
problem. If you pay the refs the most, I
can't blame a ref to go where the money's at.
MR. MANAHAN: That's what I
mean. That's what's going to happen.
MR. JABBARI: Right now we have
a tournament, without naming the name of the
tournament, but we have a tournament that
offers a $65 referee jersey and four gifts,
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plus it's paying the highest.
MR. SAUER: So what's the
problem? You represent the referees, I mean,
I don't mean to say that, but so you should
be happy that referees now are getting paid
more and getting free uniforms.
MR. JABBARI: Oh, I'm happy for
them, I --
MR. COOK: It's taking over
President's Cup, it's taking over --
MR. SAUER: So if we're in the
business here to run tournaments ourselves so
we've got to compete, so then why don't we
turn around and say if you're going to come
to President's Cup, you get a $300 gift
certificate to Dick's? Or you can do four
games or five games. And we've got to charge
more for President's Cup and State Cup to
stay competitive and get better refs.
MR. JABBARI: So are you willing
for me to spend $100 on each referee that
comes to the President's Cup, would the board
approve that?
MR. MANAHAN: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: One board member
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may not approve it, we don't know yet, we
haven't taken a vote yet.
MR. MANAHAN: Was there a vote?
Wait.
MR. JABBARI: I think -- I'm not
against it. I'm not against it.
MR. SAUER: I'm just saying
what's the solution?
MR. JABBARI: The solution is --
what's the alternative to us, is that Club?
MR. RAZACK: US Club.
MR. JABBARI: US Club? Maybe we
can coordinate with US Club and try to
limit --
MR. RUFFOLO: Good luck.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: The question,
though, we need more referees to cover all
the games. That's the solution. We need
more referees to cover all the games on a
particular weekend. How are we going to get
the referees? I don't know.
MR. RUFFOLO: I'll volunteer,
okay?
MR. MANAHAN: My thought would
be if we focus on that as the problem, we
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might get to a solution. Because I think
that we don't have enough referees, even on
weekends where we don't have five
tournaments, there's not enough referees. So
how do we focus on solving that?
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, if we're
going to be thinking about helping out the
referees then we as a board need to authorize
some clinics, some benefits for new referees
to get out there. They all have to buy their
own uniforms, they all have to spend money in
taking these clinics and so on, maybe it's
the onus on us to go out to them and say,
look, we're going to provide this for you,
you're going to give us a two-year commitment
or at least a one-year commitment. I don't
know if we can do that, but I think we've got
to start sitting down and thinking about it.
Jim, you're shaking your head.
What's up?
MR. STURM: A couple things.
One is, fundamental to this discussion is
that every referee is an independent
contractor and that is a starting point from
whatever we do.
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If a tournament wants to give
them extra bonuses, nobody can say they can't
because the referees are independent
contractors.
So it's like putting a deck on
your house, you know, if they want to charge
you, you want to pay for it, it's -- you get
the deck.
The other thing is, as far as
the scheduling problem is, and Tom and I have
talked about this before, there's actually a
by-law, 8.10.1, that says the Ohio South will
create a database so that tournaments can
apply -- not necessarily apply -- indicate
what weekend they want to have tournaments on
up through three years in advance. So it's
kind of like a reservation system as you
were.
In a lot of cases tournaments
are making plans, then -- and they're making
commitments to a certain weekend not
realizing somebody else has already got a
tournament that weekend.
As an example, there's a new
tournament, and I don't think it's even an
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Ohio South tournament, in Cincinnati on
Memorial Day weekend.
MR. SAUER: VOA?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes, it is
sanctioned.
MR. STURM: It is? Okay, I
didn't know. It's a brand new one. It's
going to be a big one, it will be a 200-team
tournament. But that steps on a lot of other
tournaments that same weekend.
MR. RUFFOLO: What weekend is
that?
MR. STURM: Memorial Day. Yeah,
but if we have this reservation system, that
may go some way a direction to letting
tournaments spread themselves out. That
would be a good first step.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes?
MR. BLIEDEN: Your comment
about, and BJ's, about we need more referees
and that, really what we need to do is from
the state level, board level or whatever, we
need to support our referees. Our young
referees go out there, they're starting with
8, 9, 10-year-olds, they're starting on
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lines. In our club that I'm from, we've even
had C bombs, and actually dropped on a
13-year-old girl and everything else.
We need, if our referees are
abused, we need to start showing them that we
will support them and there will be something
done about it. And the parents need to know
there will be something done about their
abuse. And if the abuse starts going away,
you may see the referees coming back.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, the only
thing I can say to that is I think every
league does things a little differently.
I know if we hear about abuse of
a referee in my old district, we bring the
family, the parents in, we bring the coaches
in, the coach is responsible, and we've
suspended people over it. Whether they had
anything to do with it or not. We've
suspended parents. Because we believe a
coach and a parent should be responsible and
so on. But that's our district. Every
league has something different.
MR. MANAHAN: Well, and clubs
have some responsibility as well.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Well, you do. But
clubs, it's a lot tougher a lot of times for
clubs to do anything because these are the
people that are paying them, and to tell
these parents that they can't come to their
games, that's hard to do.
MR. MANAHAN: It's not. Not for
us. It's not. I don't know why you think
it's that hard. You tell them.
MR. RUFFOLO: But the point I
think we need to be looking at, and, Steve, I
agree with you, we need to be doing things
for our referees.
And what I would like to do is
the two of you guys come back to us at next
meeting, what can we do for the referees to
get referee -- new referees, to educate
referees, and what can Ohio South do? We
should be doing something, I think all the
board members would agree on that, it looked
like everybody was nodding their head when we
were talking about it. Get something to us
and we'll go from there. Anybody else want
to make a comment?
MR. COOK: I'm not a referee
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because I can't recertify in the time that
you guys allow.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Why not? You
get three months to do it.
MR. COOK: In the winter it's
six months.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Six months.
You can go all the way until June 1st.
MR. MANAHAN: So this comes up
all -- can I make a comment? This comes up
all the time. I hear us say this because I
say it too, and then I have somebody on the
refs' side, whether it's you guys or somebody
else, say that's ridiculous, you have plenty
of time. And then I go to people in our club
and say, hey, what are you telling me on
recertification? They never have times we
can go. This is in District 1. You know,
it's a time where I can't go or do this.
I've got a guy that's on my
board, he wants to ref, he says, sorry, I
don't have time to go recertify. Why
wouldn't we recertify that guy in an easy
manner, get him back on the field?
MR. JABBARI: May I jump in?
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MR. MANAHAN: Absolutely.
MR. JABBARI: I go to most of
the District 1 recertifications and I don't
even have to, but I can find one, I find the
evenings that I can go there.
I know that other people have
kids and I -- you can take one night off and
go and recertify if you choose to do so but,
no, you have to go play basketball, watch the
basketball kids, you cannot just take three
and a half hours one day and go recertify? I
disagree with that.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay.
MR. JABBARI: I just think that,
you know, it's just an excuse.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, let me ask
you this. How many classes are there and --
MR. COOK: Oh, there's a lot of
classes, but I'm saying in the wintertime
when you guys offer most of them is my busy
time where I do indoor, I do coaching,
reffing, working, so I don't have time to
recertify. And you know that I've done this
for years and I would love to ref again,
but --
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MR. RUFFOLO: Well, BJ and
Kenny, can we find ways to open it up so they
can get recertified?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Jim?
MR. SAUER: Can it be done
online?
MR. BLIEDEN: Most college
courses are online.
MR. RUFFOLO: Can they get
recertified online?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: No, not in
Ohio South.
MR. RUFFOLO: Can they do it
nationally?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. BLIEDEN: Is there rules to
stop it in USSA?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: It's just not been
done?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Because there
are certain things we got to teach the refs
in face-to-face. We do half of it online and
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half in a classroom. We give them the badges
and so forth, we found out, like the new
referees, we have the online training for
them, they come in there and they don't know
what the hell they do, and they have no clue.
So as a result of that, we have to have
classroom so we can get their attention so we
can teach them.
Like for example, this year we
have 16 laws we changed. We cannot do it
online. We have to do it face-to-face,
questions and answers.
So the thing is, other states
started, I've tried it and it was a failure
because the referee goes out there on the
field and it affects their games because they
don't know the laws of the game, they don't
know how to apply the laws of the game
online.
So to answer the question, they
tried it, wasn't successful. So we spend
half the time online, half the time in the
classroom.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Kenny and
BJ, can you then get us something that you
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think that can work to help you guys out?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Well, yeah. I
know right now --
MR. RUFFOLO: Not now. Not now.
We don't want to talk about it now, we've got
a whole full agenda, but we want to extend
opportunities for everybody to get
reregistered, and then we want to look at
what can the board do for the benefit of the
referees to get more referees. Okay?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Okay.
MR. JABBARI: John, may I make
one last comment about the President's Cup
and State Cup?
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes.
MR. JABBARI: Unless --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: It's not going
to change, BJ.
MR. JABBARI: I understand that.
But unless we provide more incentives, it
does not hold the same priority for the
referees to participate.
MR. RUFFOLO: What conflicts are
going on on President's Cup weekend?
MR. STURM: Nike Cup boys, which
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is 500 teams in Columbus. You got the Club X
tournament in Xenia, same district as the
President's Cup is. And --
MR. JABBARI: We have Blue Chip
boys.
MS. STURM: Blue Chip boys in
Cincinnati.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: That's part of
Nike.
MR. RUFFOLO: Wow, those are all
big tournaments.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: The Nike alone
is about 500 teams.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes.
MR. COOK: Is there a reason why
we have President's Cup and State Cup so
early? Because I know other ones move them
back.
MR. RUFFOLO: Tom, why did we
move President's Cup up?
MR. FRISBIE: Because we
couldn't get facilities for it in Dayton.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, that's --
MR. COOK: Is there a certain
cutoff that we have to have it done by?
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MR. FRISBIE: Well, you want to
have it early enough to get your rain date
done so they can make travel plans for
Regionals. Both President's Cup and State
Cup.
MR. COOK: Okay. And that would
be end of June?
MR. FRISBIE: End of May.
MR. COOK: End of may is --
because Regionals would not be until what,
end of June?
MR. FRISBIE: Correct.
MR. RUFFOLO: Not end. Usually
in middle of June, isn't it?
MR. COOK: June 24th last year.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Yes?
MR. MANLEY: I guess one of the
things that I've always run into is that we
try to, we try to limit the number of matches
that people do in State Cup and President's
Cup.
If there was a way to limit the
number of matches that people do in all the
tournaments, would that help?
Because what typically will
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happen is someone will get an opportunity to
get a State Cup game, and they know they can
go to another tournament and do six games in
a row.
MR. JABBARI: Number of games
that referees --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Let him
finish.
MR. MANLEY: Yeah. So if they
were somehow limited to the number of matches
that they could do per day, would that help?
I don't know. That's one that we always
hear, you know, why would I drive to Dayton
to do State games when I can go next door and
do six in a row?
MR. SAUER: But that would make
them an employee. If we told them that they
couldn't work more than two games a day then
that tends us to make them an employee of us,
right?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Why?
MR. SAUER: You can't tell you
over here you can only do two games today.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: As an
assigner, I assign guys, like last weekend I
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only assigned three games.
MR. STURM: Kenny, as soon as
that assigner does that, he's become an
employee of that assigner. You can't tell a
guy building decks on your house you can only
build three decks today. As soon as you do
that you've limited his employment
opportunities.
MR. RUFFOLO: Kenny, there's
like 20 some factors that determine if
they're an independent contractor or not, and
one of the factors is what kind of control
you have, and that is an important factor in
determining who an independent contractor is
or not. So we have to be real, real careful
when we do that, otherwise we've got some
problems, okay?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: So you're
telling me that if a guy wants to do eight
games, we got to give him eight games?
MR. MANAHAN: No. We just can't
tell him he can't do more than two. We can't
tell him where to be and how to work.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: I'm not
telling them that. I'm assigning them that.
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MR. RUFFOLO: You can assign, if
you've got names and you're assigning, you've
got lots of names, you can assign whatever
you want.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: That's what I
do.
MR. RUFFOLO: You can't say --
because I come to you and say I want six
games, you don't have to give me six games.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Okay. I don't
tell them, all I, I just assign them.
MR. STURM: But as soon as OSSRC
or the State association makes a rule to that
effect, there's the problem.
MR. RUFFOLO: It goes into that
issue of us controlling --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: But I have
enough referees that goes around that I give
three games because that's what the referee,
you know, gives me feedback --
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I'd like to
move on, guys, I think we've talked about
this enough. Kenny and BJ, get back to us,
please. And if you want assistance from
anybody on the committee -- or this board,
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please let me know.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes, I will.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. We're going
into new business. We're going to skip the
registration report and go to the statewide
registration system. Jim?
MR. STURM: Years ago, actually
on several occasions in the past decade or so
there's been some discussion about a
statewide player and coach registration
system, and for a variety of reasons it's not
ever been successfully considered.
I talked with several other
board members and they think the time might
be right now for a consideration of that.
Part of it also is the fact that
it is presumably a well-founded rumor that at
some point in the next year or two, and, Tom,
if I'm not correct in this, if you've got
anything additional or new, please speak up,
that every player will have to get a unique
player identification number prior to them
registering in any of our leagues. It has
something to do with FIFA demanding to know
about every player everywhere.
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Presently there are -- OSSL uses
the Affinity system, Buckeye and MOSSL uses
their own proprietary system, CUSL uses
theirs, Miami Valley uses theirs.
It's an open question about
whether our individual league systems are
ever going to be able to talk to the
Federation to get that international number.
The computer coding for all that
is going to be quite extensive. I mean, I
know that Sean's got a background, Craig's
got a background in computers. To be able to
come up with a unique identifying number
that's good throughout the world, with all
the different permutations of names and dates
of births and all that, it's going to be a
monumental task. No individual league is
going to be able to make that happen.
Tom, have you heard anything
about the international number other than
it's supposed to be coming?
MR. FRISBIE: Nothing.
MR. STURM: Okay. But with
that, we certainly might -- and that's why I
wrote it up as I did in this motion, to start
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working toward that direction.
Also, in the past, and we
continue to have a problem about players who
register in one league and then go and
register in another league and don't bother
telling the second league that they're
already a member over there, and kids are
running around carded on two different teams.
Realistically, I think the only
way to do that is if you have a common
database where the kid signs up and it flags,
oh, you can't be on this team because you're
already on that team. So my idea --
MR. RUFFOLO: Jim, I didn't see
a motion in my packet, is there a motion?
Did it come separately?
MR. STURM: Yeah, it looks like
this.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: I think it's stuck
in amongst the Risk Management stuff.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. SAUER: It's right after the
Treasurer's, I think. Or right after --
MR. RUFFOLO: Oh, okay, I got
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it. Thank you. So your motion is you want
an exploratory committee?
MR. STURM: Just to start the
process to talk about it.
MR. RUFFOLO: I don't know if we
necessarily need to have a vote on that, I
think we can appoint a committee.
MR. STURM: Well, that's what
I'm asking you to do in this motion, but it
also sets some criteria in that regard.
One of the things I would like
to do is, although we're almost all involved,
with a few notable exceptions like Tim here
and Rick, are involved with competitive
programs. But if we're going to do a
statewide system, it only makes sense that we
get input from the recreational leagues what
they're looking for in it as well. So I was
hoping that the committee would be wide
ranging.
MR. RUFFOLO: I would agree
that's the direction we need to be thinking
about because of the National directives that
are probably going to come down.
I'd like to get a committee
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together. From District 3, Jim, that would
be you since you take care of that for yours.
Kenny, can you do it for District 2?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Or Sean.
MS. STURM: Or Gene. It doesn't
necessarily have to be board members.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, why don't
we, yeah, we'll get Gene on that committee
because he's our guy.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: And then from your
district, you?
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah, I'll be on
there.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. And the
idea here is to give us options, to let us
know what's out there. The one thing that I
do know is that because Dick's is our
sponsor, now there's some catches to it.
MR. FRISBIE: Dick's is not our
sponsor.
MR. RUFFOLO: Dick's is the
National sponsor.
MR. FRISBIE: Right.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Right. That's
what I meant. See, I was at the National
meeting so I'm the National guy now. And
Hawaii was beautiful a couple weeks ago,
right, Kenny?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Since Dick's is a
sponsor of US Soccer, Affinity is now
supposed to be or could be potentially free
for us, but we have to give them some things
in exchange. I want to look at all of that.
Anything that we can look at, let's look at,
okay?
MR. STURM: If I may suggest
that Tim represents Southeast --
MR. RUFFOLO: Recreation?
MR. STURM: Recreation.
MR. RUFFOLO: Absolutely, you're
in. And Scott's just sitting over here, I
can even bring him in on it.
MR. RODGERS: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: No?
MR. STURM: And let me find --
if you can find a rec person from District 2,
and I'll try to find a rec person,
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knowledgeable person. I think I have --
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, Sean, are
you the rec --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: No?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: I'll try to
find somebody.
MR. STURM: The person I'm
thinking about from District 3 is John Muir
from Dublin Soccer League, the Executive
Director. He also has a background in
computers, I'm not sure what, but I know he
has some.
MR. RUFFOLO: I'm okay with
that. Let's get something, and I'm not going
to tell you to report back to us by next
meeting, but get us something.
MR. STURM: Well, that's what I
say, the motion and my suggestion was
December of 2018.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, if we can go
a little sooner than that.
MR. MANAHAN: We'll be sooner
than that.
MR. STURM: Some people
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suggested next week, but I don't think that's
going to happen.
MR. RUFFOLO: Let's try to get
something by the second meeting in 2018.
MR. STURM: That's in November.
MR. RUFFOLO: No, that would
be -- the first meeting is January. A year
from now.
MR. STURM: Okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right, next
item on the agenda. Jim, you want to talk
about OSSL?
MR. STURM: Yes. From -- let me
get my dates right here. I think in 2014
through -- no, 2013 through summer of -- no,
take that back. Summer of 2013 through
January of '17, there was a limit on the
growth of OSSL. That limit expired January
of this year. And I would like to have the
board pass a motion that limits the size of
OSSL to what was listed in that chart that is
in here somewhere. It matches up what we've
done previously. It looks like this.
MR. SAUER: There's no page
number, but it's 19 and then 20, it would be
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20.
MR. STURM: Right after Risk
Management maybe.
MR. RUFFOLO: It's the first
thing right after Risk Management.
MR. STURM: Yeah. Tom, correct
me if I'm wrong, this is our --
MR. SAUER: Current model.
MR. RUFFOLO: The only issue on
that one, there's U19s that aren't included
on this.
MR. STURM: Well, in talking
with Tom, he indicated that U19s were a real
problem from him. And the whole idea of OSSL
from the beginning was to prep teams for MRL
for the following year. There is no U20 MRL,
so why U19s, I don't know.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, I think we
do provide U19s, at least this year we are.
MR. STURM: We did.
MR. RUFFOLO: So I'd like to
keep them included in there.
MR. STURM: Tom, what's your
thought, do you need 19s?
MR. FRISBIE: I don't think that
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that, I mean --
MR. RUFFOLO: The option for it.
MR. FRISBIE: -- personally I
don't think we necessarily need it. I would
probably say we should go to the Coaches
Committee and get their opinion on it. I
would probably think that they would say the
same thing, because the reason I think what I
think is because of what they've conveyed to
me already.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Then report
back to us.
MR. FRISBIE: I will.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. So we got
these 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17 and 18, and your
motion is to limit them for one more year?
MR. STURM: Yes. One -- the
next seasonal year.
MR. RUFFOLO: Do I have a second
on that motion?
MR. SAUER: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: George. Do I have
any discussion?
MR. COOK: Is there a reason why
you just want one year?
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MR. STURM: There's options for
some other changes coming forward and this
gives us the latitude, a year's time to work
on those changes.
One of the things that's been
talked about is a true promotion relegation
system. And with all the changes that's
transpired in the last couple of months, you
know, getting a new constitution and all that
put together, we just didn't get work to it,
and this gives us a year to work on it.
MR. RUFFOLO: I, as I spoke to
and told you earlier, I think it's premature
because when we met in January we talked
about several things. Promotion relegation.
We talked about trying to look at what
Buckeye can do to help the other district
leagues.
And I realize, Jim, that you
have some other issues with other clubs. I
would like to table this. At this point in
time we're not expanding, we don't have the
plans to do it, but I want to put the foot on
the pedal and I want us to go and resolve
this issue. And however we do that, I want
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it resolved.
I want us to put together a
promotion relegation program, and if -- as
long as I'm President, that is one of my
biggest goals. And then after doing a
promotion relegation, I want to do something
that helps the districts. The districts need
help, they're all hurting.
We have a lot of things out
there and I think we as a board should be
looking at all of that. And I don't think I
need a rule. I don't think I need to pass
it.
And I would like all of us to
keep pushing to get this thing resolved. And
I think when we all talked, we all talked
about that, and that's where I'd like to go.
Jim?
MR. STURM: One observation. If
you have no plans to expand it, Tom has
indicated he has no plans to expand it,
Gordon has indicated he has no -- as current
Director of Coaching he has no support for
expanding it, then why can't we pass the
rule? Because if the rule's not in place
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then Buckeye, which you've identified as part
of the equation, is --
MR. RUFFOLO: That's a nice way
of saying it.
MR. STURM: -- is, we're left
hanging. Because if this rule is not in
place, then as a league I would be hard
pressed not to assume that it won't be
expanding.
And if OSSL expands, it is my
belief that Buckeye will have no choice but
to continue forward with our present
direction.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: I would also like to
point out that when OSSL was formed, that is
when Buckeye's numbers really grew. And my
concern for each of the leagues, which
includes MOSSL, is that if OSSL expands,
Buckeye continues to expand, that is only in
the end going to hurt the district level
leagues.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, the choice
to expand by Buckeye was Buckeye's choice and
it wasn't as necessarily the result of OSSL,
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it was the result of you not having all the
requirements that you used to have to get
into the league. You pretty much now accept
anybody. And that's fine, that's your
prerogative, but it had nothing to do
necessarily with OSSL.
MR. STURM: It was the exact
same year.
MR. RUFFOLO: I understand that.
But that's when you started accepting more
teams, and without taking consideration,
because I know, I had a team and you kicked
us out, okay, and that team ended up being
the best team in their age group the next
year.
So you had requirements, you
don't have them now, and you're allowing
everybody in. And that's fine, that's your
prerogative, and that's Buckeye's
prerogative, and I don't have a problem with
that, but it's not getting us a result.
We talked three years ago when
we set this up that we were going to do
something during this period of time. We
haven't. By putting out another year, what
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we're going to do is delay it another year,
kick the can down the road. I don't want to
kick the can down the road. I want us to go
forward, do something, and I don't want to
hurt anybody but we need to do something for
the betterment of soccer.
MR. STURM: Three years ago I
did make this very same proposal, to limit
the size of Buckeye, but at that same time I
put forward several caveats. Since then,
none of those caveats have come to pass, and
so I put my idea forward and I made some
specific requests of the other, the other
member leagues. Those were not met.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: It's a one-year
proposal. If it doesn't come to pass in the
next year, it doesn't go forward beyond that.
That's why it's only a one-year proposal,
that's why it was asked, it's one year. That
puts the gun to my head for Buckeye, with the
other people, to get this done next year.
MR. RUFFOLO: I don't think it's
a gun to your head, I think it's a gun to all
of our heads because we need to resolve this
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issue.
MR. MANAHAN: Can I have the
floor, John? So for us that haven't been
around forever, can you give a nutshell
version of this promotion relegation?
MR. RUFFOLO: Promotion
relegation would be an idea where let's say
you're in OSSL, you're one of the 12 boys
teams, okay? Promotion, they hopefully get
to go to MRL. Okay?
Relegation, if they are the last
two or the last team, or usually it's the
last two, they would drop down to the league
that is right below them.
Right now that league right
below them in my mind would be the state
league over at Buckeye. And then the top two
teams from Buckeye would then get the
opportunity to play in OSSL.
That's promotion, that's
relegation. So that's what we're talking
about. And I only throw that out, I'm not
saying that's how it was going to work, but
that's what promotion relegation is.
MR. MANAHAN: So what you're
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saying is you want to have a way -- you want
to have promotion and relegation from the
state league, no matter what that league
underneath looks like?
MR. RUFFOLO: Sure.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: Sure.
MR. MANAHAN: All right. Just
want to understand it.
MR. BLIEDEN: Or if the state
league ends up with more divisions, you end
up out of the top division, you go to the
second division.
MR. MANAHAN: Probably shouldn't
say that because that's what the motion is
all about.
MR. STURM: If OSSL expands
their number of divisions, all of this is off
the table for Buckeye.
MR. RUFFOLO: Right. Well, and,
Jim, nobody is trying --
MR. STURM: There's no upside to
Buckeye then.
MR. RUFFOLO: Nobody is trying
to say, Buckeye, restrict yourself. We did
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say at that meeting when we all were
sitting -- standing around there, we wanted
to have an opportunity for you guys, George
and you, to get back to us in the May time
period. And now things have changed, and
you've pointed that out, there's other
leagues that are competing.
I just think we need to put,
like I said, our foot to the pedal and get a
resolution. And if it isn't going to be
resolved then we need to know that.
MR. STURM: Here's my
suggestion. Two things. One is, since this
is obviously a discussion primarily between
you and I, why don't you and I off record
away from the rest of the board, I will
elaborate some more concerns that I have with
this.
MR. RUFFOLO: And that's fine.
MR. STURM: And --
MR. MANAHAN: Hold on.
Personally, I want to hear what they are.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, at this
point I want to put this motion at bay right
now, okay? That's my opinion. We've got a
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motion, we've got a second. Do we have
anymore discussion on this?
MR. STURM: As an alternate --
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: Would the board
agree to not to change the OSSL rule, that
you have to play in OSSL to be considered for
MRL?
MR. MANAHAN: Isn't that the
whole point of the league?
MR. STURM: No. That you have
to play in OSSL simultaneously with playing
in MRL. After you make MRL, you also have to
continue to play in OSSL except for the top
division.
MR. RUFFOLO: Top division of
MRL?
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah, if you're in
the top division of MRL you don't have to
play OSSL.
MR. SAUER: That's the biggest
problem that I've heard from multiple teams
is that in order to maintain a position they
have to play again and they, it's double the
games and they have to play State Cup and
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there's just no time.
I've got State Cup games that
are standing in for Buckeye games and they're
saying can we play one game and count it in
three leagues? And it's like, it's up to the
other leagues, I don't care.
MR. RUFFOLO: I really want
Gordon involved in that discussion because
Gordon is the DOC that has helped promulgate
all the rules and I was not a part of it. So
I think before we even talk about that I
think we need some responses from Gordon.
Again, we have a motion, we have
a second, any further discussion on the
motion and the second? Okay, the motion is
to maintain OSSL as is for the seasonal year
2017 to 2018, and that would be from
basically June 1 to May 31st, whatever that
is. Okay? All in favor? Who is opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: All right, so it
doesn't pass. Okay, let's go to the next
one.
MR. STURM: Assistant state
registrars?
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MR. RUFFOLO: Yes. That's you.
(BJ Jabbari left the meeting.)
MR. STURM: There's a two-page
thing, three-page. The new constitution
eliminated the position of District
Commissioners and created a new category of
Assistant State Registrars. The constitution
says as duties as defined by Ohio South
by-laws. This does that. It, you know,
there's a number of places in the by-laws
that refers to the State Commissioners,
District Commissioners, those are all
eliminated, and it defines specifically what
the Assistant State Registrars can do.
Specifically, on the first page,
5.16.3, may approve tournament guest player
cards, tournament guest player rosters and
tournament teams. So it defines that role.
And 5.16.5, it cleans up the
language there.
5.8.2.5, it's a little
contradictory in the middle of that
paragraph. It will not be approved for a
period of two weeks after its receipt by the
league or association to which the player is
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transferring, if the transfer is approved by
that member league or association. It can't
go through if the transfer's not approved, so
that phrase is superfluous and unnecessary.
Also, in the middle of that page
we have a problem, especially with, and in
particular I think for some reason it's
between MOSSL and Buckeye and Miami Valley
where the player pass, where a kid is
transferring and the player pass -- there's
dispute where the player pass goes. This
says it goes back to the league. So that if
they're leaving Buckeye going to Miami
Valley, then the card comes back to Buckeye.
We know where that card is. And you know
that we've got where the card is. Always
before it was a little ambiguous as to where
the card ended up with. This defines that
process.
I don't know if it happens in
your leagues, Kenny, or in CUSL, we have
coaches who think that it's their right to --
they have the right to refuse a transfer, and
they just say no, the, you know, the kid owes
me money, I'm not going to approve the
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transfer, any number of reasons, if I approve
the transfer, they're my best player or
they're my only goalkeeper. No, none of that
is applicable. And there's really no
sanction for that coach that is just being
difficult, for lack of a better term.
This makes it a rule that if
it's brought to the Conduct Committee, that
there's a sanction for it, the Conduct
Committee can find them guilty. Because
there's really -- because if the player is
not allowed to complete the transfer, the
player can't play someplace.
MR. RUFFOLO: Right. And we
have a player's right to choose, so --
MR. STURM: And this lies in
contradiction to that.
MR. FRISBIE: I would like to
point out that this is an important piece and
the board should really take note of that
being included, because we do get issues with
that, coaches just being obstinate for no
other reason than restrict a player from
playing until the waiting period is done, and
that's not equitable to the player at all.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Right.
MR. SAUER: Obstinate is a kind
word. It's, it's terrible. I mean, every
day I'm dealing with parents, coaches, well,
I don't want to do that, I'm not going to
sign them, or they just throw it in a file
and they don't care.
I mean, I understand that one
club's losing a thousand dollars, another
club's gaining a thousand dollars, but that
same coach that's holding onto it will call
me the next day, this guy's coming from the
other club, where's my card, where's the
transfer? So on one hand he's putting it in
his pocket and the other hand he's
complaining that the other coach is putting
it in his pocket.
MR. MANAHAN: Is there any way
we can just eliminate the two weeks and be
done with it? I mean, we're not stopping the
transfer anyway, what's the point of the
coach having the ability to delay them two
weeks?
MR. SAUER: That's something
that's above my grade.
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MR. STURM: Here's why that rule
has always been in place. Occasionally, I
know in MOSSL and Buckeye and I believe Miami
Valley has a no recruiting rule. If you
approve the transfer, there's really no
option to somebody to raise a flag, hey,
there was recruiting involved, and gives an
opportunity for the coach to complain that
the kid got recruited away.
MR. MANAHAN: Well, maybe they
did, but are we going to not approve the
transfer if that happens and make them stay
on the team?
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, that all
depends. If there is overt recruiting in
these various leagues, they will have some
action against the coach.
MR. MANAHAN: Agreed.
MR. RUFFOLO: And then the coach
that did it will probably say to the kid
that's being recruited, you can't come over.
That's ultimately what the result will be.
MS. STURM: And in our rules, in
MOSSL's rules, it says specifically the
transfer will not be approved if recruiting
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has been proved. Which is a disincentive for
them to recruit in the first place because if
they're proved to recruit, you can't get the
kid.
MR. RUFFOLO: What you're trying
to eliminate is anybody trying to see a great
kid and then start pounding on them and --
leave the kid alone, don't be recruiting
them, let him play on his team, and that's
the team he committed to for the seasonal
year.
MR. MANAHAN: We've all been
involved in these things, I mean, Steve and I
have been on the phone trying to chase down
coaches at fields to get signatures and when
really it should be, hey, he's transferring,
buddy, sorry, you know, they want to leave.
Or it could be, you know, I had
under United this year, over the winter they
didn't want to approach it because he said,
oh, I'm out of the country for a month, don't
worry about it. Okay.
MR. STURM: Well, there's other
alternate people that can approve it.
MR. MANAHAN: Right.
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MR. STURM: So that's not an
excuse.
MR. MANAHAN: It's not. But I'm
saying it almost, to me there shouldn't be
that -- the coach shouldn't have an ability
to say no.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, I mean, I
don't have a problem reducing that two weeks
down to seven days.
MR. STURM: Because sometimes it
takes more time to know about it and to, for
the -- you got to give time for the league to
take action. Just because, you know, the
coach that's losing the player says, hey, the
kid was recruited, you got to give the league
some time to look into it. Well, why? You
got proof? Is there an email?
MR. RUFFOLO: Is seven days too
short?
MR. STURM: Yes. 14 days is not
a problem. Keep in mind, most transfers
happen over the winter anyway, so it's not
really impacting.
And I would say 50 percent,
random number, 50 percent of coaches approve
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it automatically when it's presented to them.
And so it's --
MR. SAUER: Or more.
MR. STURM: Or more. And George
handles a lot of transfers.
MR. BLIEDEN: Isn't the
tournament guest player the number one form
of recruiting there is out there?
MR. RUFFOLO: There's all kinds
of things.
MR. MANAHAN: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: There's that,
there's indoor soccer, there's any kind of
thing, I mean, there's recruiting all over
the place.
MR. MANAHAN: The dynamic parent
that walks across the other side of the field
and says, hey, who's number six?
MR. RUFFOLO: And then the last
paragraph on that, Jim? I see one typo, it
says the form it, it should be the form is,
to be submitted for signature.
MR. STURM: Yes. Also, as part
of this proposal, there's a revision of the
inter-team player transfer form.
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MR. SAUER: There's two in the
packet. The second one is the one. I don't
know where the first one --
MR. STURM: That's as it is now.
MR. SAUER: Well, it's missing a
line.
MR. FRISBIE: The original is
the first one, and the modified version is
the second one.
MR. STURM: Correct.
MR. RUFFOLO: And it's modified
down at the bottom.
MR. STURM: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: That's it.
MR. FRISBIE: Correct. The only
item I would bring up is Item 5.8.2.5.1.
That seems a little bit --
MR STURM: The very last
paragraph.
MR. FRISBIE: I just don't think
it needs to be there. I think that we've
covered all of our bases between the leagues.
MR. SAUER: I think the league,
the two leagues are the problem. I mean, if
you're dealing with just -- I'll just say,
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CUSL has registrars in every single club.
Trying to figure out who has got to sign the
card, the transfer form, we're not dealing
with a league now, we're dealing with the
club.
So that's why, we've talked
about, Jim and I talked about this, is
leaving it in there for somebody other than
the club official to sign the transfer form.
And that's where we, that's why we said we
didn't want to change that because that's
some of the problems we're having with, like
you said, the Thunder or somebody else, we're
waiting for somebody who's an employee to
sign the form, and the coach is telling them
don't sign it because I don't want the kid to
transfer.
MR. MANAHAN: Is there any way
we could put this online so we could start
the clock? That way they can have an
opportunity to sign it, go in and sign it and
say this is an issue recruiting. And if they
don't go in and they don't sign it or they,
then they --
MR. SAUER: I'll tell you what
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we do. If somebody calls up and says we're
going to transfer, I say to them, I want you
to send an email to the coach, to us, and say
I'm requesting a transfer on this date. And
from us, that's when I start the two-week
period, when they have showed proof that they
sent an email to the club requesting a
transfer. It's not when two weeks from now,
you know, they call up -- no.
MR. FRISBIE: I'm just looking
at the, from my perspective, the league that
they're leaving has signed off on it, the
league that they're transferring to has
signed off on it, now OSYSA has to sign off
on it, now we got to get back to the league
that they're transferring to. If the league
that they're transferring to has already
signed off on it, why does OSYSA need to?
MR. STURM: Because the team
from the league that the player is leaving
from signs off, but the league that they're
leaving from does not.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. So even if
we have the team signing and --
MR. SAUER: You're talking about
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the bottom half where it says signature of
league Registrar that transferring player is
from, and signature of league Registrar
they're transferring to. What are we talking
about --
MR. FRISBIE: And then if you go
back to 5.8.2.5.1, that's the part that I
think is --
MR. STURM: Unnecessary?
MR. FRISBIE: Then you're
sending it back to the state association to
send it back to the league who just signed
off on it.
MR. STURM: Okay.
MR. FRISBIE: If anything, the
league should just send it to us and say,
hey, this is what happened.
MR. SAUER: But then if it comes
back, how do we resolve the issue that
somebody, I mean, again say Buckeye refused
to sign, you know, the league Registrar, me,
refuses to sign it, how is that issue
resolved?
MR. RUFFOLO: Why would the
league Registrar refuse?
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MR. SAUER: I'm just saying, the
problem we're having is that the league
Registrar in CUSL, I mean, I'm just saying,
is not a league Registrar, she's the club
Registrar for the league. So there are 17
million clubs in CUSL, there are 17 million
league Registrars, and that person has to
sign it. And that's the problem.
I mean, I'm not saying
anything's wrong with it, that's the person
we have to track down to try to figure out --
and if something's going wrong, it's just --
MR. MANAHAN: So you're just
saying you want an authority above that
person that can sign it in the absence of a
club person to sign it?
MR. SAUER: Yes.
MR. FRISBIE: Then that's what
that rule should say.
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah, just needs
to be rewritten.
MR. FRISBIE: It should say in
the absence of transferring to, OSYSA -- I
don't even know because, like you're saying,
you could have recruiting rules that OSYSA is
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not --
MR. STURM: You'll never know
about.
MR. FRISBIE: We'll never know
about, but it's not our jurisdiction to
govern.
MR. SAUER: Correct.
MR. RAZACK: If we did it
online, then everybody would know.
MR. MANAHAN: That's what I say,
if we put it online, and you put their email
address in there, you shoot them an email and
say this transfer's on there, you have 14,
you know, 7 days, or whatever you decide, to
go in and either refuse or accept. And if no
one responds, that means they accept. If
they go in, they get an opportunity to say,
hey, I think this player was recruited,
here's why. And then we can stop it and say,
okay, we'll look into this.
MR. STURM: You're getting kind
of a complicated process. If we get a
statewide registration system, it's a piece
of cake.
MR. MANAHAN: I know I'm
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oversimplifying, I'm just saying there is a
way to solve this that isn't paper and
writing and hand it across the table.
MR. FRISBIE: We have to figure
out how to do that and then go backwards to
rewrite the by-law to make the two fit
together so we're not outside the by-law in
doing the form.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I would
like to just ask you, Jim, if you would amend
and take out 5.8.2.5.1 right now, and then
let's pass everything else. I think we need
that.
MR. SAUER: And the new form,
yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: And the new form.
I think we need that. And then let's
everybody look at this. Craig, since this is
a big one for you, you and Jim keep working
on that.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: John, I have a
question.
MR. RUFFOLO: I'm real good at
delegating.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: On the form,
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why do we have a signature for player? We
don't have them, in the card they don't sign
anything, why is it that we need a signature
for player?
MR. SAUER: Because that was on
the original form.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: I think it
should be out.
MR. RUFFOLO: Hold on. So
you're saying you want to take from the form
the signature of the player off?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Anybody have a
problem with that? I think we're all in
agreement on that.
MR. STURM: Most kids can't sign
their name anyway.
MR. RUFFOLO: I've never
required my kids to sign the cards, never
did. Especially when they were 7 and 8 and
you're going, really?
MR. SAUER: That's why we left
it, it was on the original form.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, let's take
that line off. But with everything else,
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Jim, would you go with the motion, take the
5.8.2.5.1?
MR. RAZACK: I think you have to
leave it on there because there's
18-year-olds that transfer that can sign.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay, then just
modify it and say or.
MR. RUFFOLO: No, no, no. What
you do, put in there something if 18 or older
they need to sign.
MR. MANAHAN: That's what I
mean.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yeah.
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah.
MR. STURM: Question. Did this
motion ever get made and was it seconded?
MR. RUFFOLO: No, no. You've
got the motion right now and I'm asking you
if you would amend your motion.
MR. STURM: Okay. I move to
adopt the proposal entitled Proposed OSYSA
By-Law Change Re: Duties of Assistant
Registrars as presented, less Paragraph
5.8.2.5.1.
MR. RUFFOLO: Do I have a second
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on that?
MR. STURM: And with the
modification of the proposed inter-league
player transfer request and approval form,
with, where it says signature of player,
parenthesis, if over age 18 -- only if age 18
or over. And ask for a second.
MR. HILTON: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Second, Solly.
All in favor? Anyone opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: Thank you very
much. Okay, let's take a five-minute break.
We're at 8:00.
(WHEREUPON, a brief recess was
taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: The next area that
we've got is the statewide by-law on tryouts.
Jim, this is your motion.
MR. STURM: Okay. This has had
several revisions over the last three weeks
that it's been out floating around.
These revisions were following
comments, suggestions by various people that
this by-law would impact.
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Just as long as you know you
have the very latest version, in 3.6.2,
3.6.3, and a couple other places you'll see
some green font that uses the phrase ID
camps.
So that we can start the
discussion process, I move that we adopt this
proposal as presented, and ask for a second.
MR. HILTON: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Who seconded?
MR. MANAHAN: Solly.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, Solly. All
right. Tom, if you would pass out --
MR. FRISBIE: It's going around.
MR. RUFFOLO: It's going around?
Any comments about this motion? You're also
receiving a document that was forwarded to us
from US Soccer's attorney -- or US Youth
Soccer's attorney.
MR. FRISBIE: The Federation.
MR. RUFFOLO: Oh, Federation.
US Soccer's attorney. And they apparently
got note of this going on here and that is
his response.
I want everybody to take some
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time to review that because we just got that
today. And then if anybody has a comment,
let me know.
MR. STURM: In light of this --
MR. MANAHAN: Can we read this a
second?
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes. Let them
read it all.
MR. MANAHAN: Sorry, I'm a slow
reader. What's the second thing?
MR. RUFFOLO: The second thing
is a decision that happened several years
ago, then they're citing for the purposes of
showing that Ohio South by-law -- or not
by-laws, I think it was their code or
whatever -- mission statement was to assist
USSF and OSYSA in the development of National
teams in development programs. Which by the
way, I think we've changed that mission
statement last year, if I remember correctly.
I don't know how much of a change, but we
have changed it.
MR. FRISBIE: What they're
referring to in this email is still at our
purpose, but our mission statement is now
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something else.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes. So, Jim, I
think you had your hand up.
MR. STURM: Well, first of all,
let me say it's ironic that they're
referencing the appeal decision that was
chaired by John Ruffolo that was in violation
of Ohio South's by-laws in reaching their
decision in that they considered information
contrary to the Ohio South by-laws that was
not part of the original process.
Having said that, I move to
strike Paragraph 3.6.6 from the proposal,
which would then put us in compliance with
the directive from the Federation.
3.6.6 is the section that would
define penalties for teams, clubs or persons.
So the Federation says we can't punish
somebody for doing that, so I'm striking
3.6.6.
MR. BLIEDEN: So we're
recommending a rule without any
ramifications?
MS. STURM: Well, no. 3.6.5
says that no competitive league can accept a
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team that does that.
The Federation cannot tell us
what teams we can and can't accept in our
leagues. That is a membership right.
And it's also addressed in other
sections of the Ohio South by-laws, in
particular in the Risk Management by-laws
where it says United States Soccer Federation
has determined that each member must comply
with USSF organizational rules, which we will
by dropping 3.6.6.
In addition, each member,
including OSYSA, has the right to establish
their own membership requirements. That's
what we're doing in 3.6.5.
In addition, United States
Federal Court has ruled that a private,
non-profit educational organization such as
OSYSA has the right to set eligibility
requirements for their membership. That's
what we're doing in 3.6.5.
So we're not going to punish
anybody if they hold them, anybody because --
if they hold tryouts early, but we're not
going to let our leagues accept them, because
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every league that is here, MOSSL, Buckeye,
Miami Valley, and CUSL, have rules against
having early tryouts. And through extension,
OSSL.
So this rule just makes it a
statewide rule that all the other leagues
already have in place.
These tryout dates as proposed
is -- will not negatively impact any of the
current leagues' planned tryout dates. In
fact, the dates shown on the top of the
second page mimic exactly what CUSL adopted
five or six months ago for this coming
seasonal year, so it doesn't impact anybody
in CUSL or in MOSSL, Buckeye, or Miami
Valley.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Yes?
MR. FELDMAN: I have a question.
My rec kids, if they want to try out for a
club team, they have one day to do it?
MR. STURM: No, no.
MR. FELDMAN: Is it just one day
for that? Or so how does -- one rec player
can try out for any day as long as it happens
after the May 23rd?
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MR. STURM: After this. If you
want to have tryouts in July, great, nobody
cares. It's you can't hold them before these
dates, which is primarily Memorial Day or the
Tuesday after Memorial Day.
MR. RUFFOLO: Why do we have in
this proposal two different time frames?
MR. STURM: Because that is what
Miami -- or CUSL adopted for this year's
tryouts. That's what they decided to do.
Not sure why, but those are their dates.
MR. RUFFOLO: Because I received
a couple of emails from coaches in District 2
that did not like that at all. And they said
it makes it a hardship on smaller clubs to
have extended tryouts like that. I'm just
reporting what I received. So keep
discussing. Anybody else?
MR. MANAHAN: You're talking
about this top part here?
MR. RUFFOLO: There's two parts,
May 23rd and May 30th, yeah.
MR. MANAHAN: Right. So I can
give some commentary on that. That was, so
CUSL had a specific date in their by-laws
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when tryouts could be held for this year. It
happened to be May 23rd, which is before
Memorial Day.
A bunch of the clubs really
wanted to have them Memorial Day, so they
requested can we move the date to after
Memorial -- Tuesday after Memorial Day.
CU, Southeast, guys sitting over
there, had, they already rented turf for this
year based on the date that was in there. So
we made a compromise to go ahead, for this
year only, to allow some younger age groups
to go so those tryouts could get done in the
way that they need to get them done, for this
year. So then for next year it would move to
a Tuesday after Memorial Day.
That was why those two dates
exist because CUSL's date is May 23rd. We
really wanted to be -- other clubs wanted to
be after Memorial Day, so to compromise
that's what they did. So that's CUSL's rule
right now.
So to make this by-law work
without affecting this year, that's why that
section's there.
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The other option would be say to
adopt the by-law after tryouts this year,
with Tuesday after Memorial Day.
MR. STURM: This by-law at least
helps -- and what's happened in previous
years in Miami Valley because of the
closeness of the, especially the Centerville
area, the teams play -- kids might want to go
for a Cincinnati team or a District 1 team or
a District 2 team and they have two different
tryout dates. This at least moves half of
those conflicts, as it were, to after
Memorial Day, which matches up with Miami
Valley.
The other thing is, if you look
at the age groups involved, 8s, 9s and 10s
can't play across district lines anyway.
MR. MANAHAN: Right.
MR. STURM: And there's very few
18 and 19 teams out there to be worried
about. So the impact of having those five
age groups is very, very minimal for having
tryouts before Memorial Day. The vast, vast
majority, 90, 80 percent of our teams are in
the 11s through the 17 age group anyway, so
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that puts all of them on the same timeframe.
I can say that in the tryouts
that are held in District 3 for both MOSSL
and Buckeye are even more restrictive than
this.
MR. MANAHAN: I mean, should we
just leave that section out and just leave
that last bullet that says for teams being
formed for 2018, '19, and for subsequent
years this is it? Because those dates are
already set, we already made that compromise,
everybody's kind of planning on those dates
in District 1 anyways.
MR. STURM: Yeah, but Buckeye's
not going to agree to that because, and we
might as well throw all the cards on the
table, we've got representatives from Cup
here. If they hold their early tryouts in
March, there is no way I can tell my other
clubs we're going to make a rule that puts
you at a competitive disadvantage with Cup.
And Buckeye will allow early tryouts as early
as Cup holds theirs. And if Buckeye does
that, that kind of breaks up a whole lot of
things.
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So what we're trying to do is
have a level playing field across the board
for all teams in Ohio South.
It's also a, as one of the DOCs
pointed out, it's also a matter of a player's
right to choose. If you're forcing some
players to have early tryouts and make early
decisions, then they're at a disadvantage if
they want to play for a different club but
they got to stay here.
Also, it could be suggested that
this is discriminatory because there's only
one age group that's having early tryouts, or
one gender, the girls. But boys aren't going
to be allowed to have an early tryout.
MR. MANAHAN: Where does it say
that?
MR. STURM: No, the reality is
it's only going to be an early girls' tryout.
MR. SAUER: We don't have a DA
for boys.
MR. STURM: There's no DA for
boys in Cincinnati.
MR. MANAHAN: When is Cup having
their tryouts?
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MR. RODGERS: Well, that's why
we're here. And if I'm allowed to speak, I
would love to if --
MR. RUFFOLO: Hold on one
second. I'll get you in a minute.
MR. FRISBIE: Hold on, Scott.
MR. STURM: I can also point
out, I've got in my possession at least a
dozen emails from clubs big and small in
Cincinnati that are in support of this
proposal as written.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Scott?
MR. RODGERS: First of all, I
appreciate it. This has been a great
experience, and we're here for this reason.
To make sure everybody's on the
same page and understands where Cincinnati
United is coming from in our joint venture
with Kings Hammer for the girls DA, you know,
we have no desire to disrupt any tryouts, we
support tryout reform. We believe that
tryout reform needs to occur to get everybody
on an, on an equal playing field.
We also support what US Soccer's
trying to do with their Developmental
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Academy. We currently do not have tryouts.
Even though I know some people would like to
say they are occurring, they are not. We
have not taken any notes, we don't have any
kids in bibs, we don't have any kids doing
anything.
We did put together an
opportunity for kids to come together and see
each other so we could start breaking down
some walls on the girls' side because we have
kids who have to come and play together who
currently have not played together nor may
have they ever played together.
So our tryouts haven't been
established yet because we're going to live
up to the rules that occur inside the leagues
that we play in and the rules that Ohio South
puts together.
We would like to put the DA
before anything that would occur. And the
rationale behind that is from my experience
in being involved in this. For years I've
had players who want to go up and play on the
boys' side. The Developmental Academy with
the Crew have looked at when OE had the DA
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and looked at other DA programs that are out
of state.
I personally as a director would
like to have that done before tryouts ever
occur. Reason being is, if we try to do it
all in one time while that kid's making that
decision, you're impacting several kids down
the road on other teams, on other places, on
other clubs.
I don't want any club calling me
going, wait a minute, this kid won't commit
to me because they're waiting on their offer
from the DA, or this kid committed to me
because they were scared they didn't get the
DA and now they're backing out and I don't
have any other kids to put in that roster
spot. And I agree with that. I've been in
that position. I've been in a position where
a kid told us they were playing for us, and
then called us and said, hey, I got offered
the DA, I'm taking off and leaving you, and
now there's a hole in our process.
So we are trying to be a club
that is trying to bring this to Cincinnati
because we feel it's vital for the
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development of these kids. If there's
something going on in California and a kid
can develop that way, we want to make sure
the Southern Ohio, Cincinnati kid has that
same opportunity.
So as we bring the DA into
Cincinnati, we're not trying to disrupt but
we'd like to get it over with so that
everybody can work on similar grounds.
I understand the complaints that
we might get an opportunity to see a player
before somebody else does. We would like to
listen to any ways that that can be adjusted.
Our thought process was a DA
tryout, a gap, and then our normal tryouts
for our club.
Now, during that gap we felt
that, yeah, there's a chance we're going to
lose players. They may not be happy that
they didn't get offered the DA program and
now they have time to go to other clubs'
tryouts and attend those tryouts, and if they
choose to play for another club then we know
that's what we have to deal with.
If you do them all at once,
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which we will support and we will do, what's
going to happen then is exactly what Jim and
I have talked about in prior conversations,
we're going to be making offers to everybody
in one shot, right? We're going to be making
offers to all the people in one shot and a
kid is not going to have an opportunity to go
look at other clubs because everybody is
going to be making offers within a 24 to
48-hour period of time.
MR. RUFFOLO: Scott, can I ask
you a question?
MR. RODGERS: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. Say
you have your tryout in March, okay? You got
a hundred girls coming out, okay? You get a
team. How many are going to be on the DA --
in the DA program from an age group?
MR. RODGERS: 18 to 22.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. So you're
basically getting one team. How many teams
are you going to get in each age group?
MR. RODGERS: There are four age
groups, I believe.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yeah, but are they
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one age, one team for each --
MR. RODGERS: Only one DA team,
right.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. The players
will know within a short period of time after
that whether they're in DA and whether they
accept or not?
MR. RODGERS: As long as they
accept, but, yes, they would know quickly.
MR. RUFFOLO: So let's say
within a week you would have your team put
together.
MR. RODGERS: The offers would
be out, yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. What
happens to, and this is the issue I think
everybody has, what happens to all those
other girls that came out for your program,
what are they told?
MR. RODGERS: To attend, if they
don't make the team, to attend tryouts next
week or next session or whenever those -- our
tryouts would not be in March, just so you
understand, we would never do those tryouts
in March.
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MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. RODGERS: Those tryouts
would occur either --
MR. RUFFOLO: Are you going to
tell them to come back to your tryouts or are
you going to tell them to go back and try out
for other teams?
MR. RODGERS: I can tell you
what we do now for our club. Our Cup tryouts
go first and our CU tryouts go second. And
so what we tell kids who do not make Cup is
here are the dates for our tryouts.
MR. STURM: John?
MR. RUFFOLO: Yeah.
MR. STURM: Scott, I saw a
Twitter feed that was put out that said
there's a Combine March 31st, the players
should come prepared wearing a black jersey,
bring a white jersey, training pants and
shoes.
MR. RODGERS: Uh-huh.
MR. STURM: First of all, for
most people who are involved in soccer, that
sounds like a whole lot like tryouts.
My second point is, it said
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specifically this is a tryout for the DA
Academy and the Pre-DA Academy teams. How
can you invite people to a DA and Pre-Academy
tryout and say that it's not a tryout for the
teams that are going to play in the leagues?
MR. RODGERS: I understand that.
And that was a mistake by that person that
sent that out. We are not doing a tryout.
We have no notes from those events, we are
not running them as if we were.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. What is a
Pre-Academy?
MR. RODGERS: That probably will
not be the name of the team, but those will
be the kids that will be the next tier for us
in our club.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. So when I
asked you how many teams you're having,
you're having one team but then you're also
going to have a Pre-Academy team?
MR. RODGERS: Our club will
have, yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Your club will,
okay. And they have to try out for that team
when you have tryouts?
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MR. RODGERS: There are kids in
our club who have told us they will not be
trying out for the DA, but will try out for
our next level team.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: Scott --
MR. RUFFOLO: Wait a minute, He
had one before that. Craig?
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah, a couple
questions. Number one, did you guys do a
registration for the ID centers that you've
done already, online? Have you collected
information, you know, direction?
MR. RODGERS: We have
information for those people that have
attended, yes. If they wanted information on
the DA, we have collected that information.
MR. MANAHAN: No, I'm asking --
so before they went, did you ask them to
register with you so that you have their
name, phone number, parents' names?
MR. RODGERS: I don't think we
asked them to register, I'll have to go back
and check. We asked them to fill out a
waiver, though, so that we couldn't be sued
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if a kid got hurt.
MR. MANAHAN: Right.
MR. BERNING: That's correct. I
was at the registration. Nobody
pre-registered, they filled -- they brought a
form, filled out and handed --
MR. MANAHAN: So the only
information you collected from the kids that
attended was a waiver so that you, you know,
are covered from an insurance or whatever?
MR. BERNING: Correct.
MR. MANAHAN: So we, you know,
we all know there was a survey that was sent
out, and from what I understand from, I
talked to Tim Bronsil as well, he says that
it only went to Kings Hammer kids and Cup
kids. Can you confirm a hundred percent that
that went to just your club?
MR. RODGERS: We are still
researching that to make sure. Our two
people who sent it out, yes, are telling us
that they sent that only to our players. And
that's what the questionnaire was for, we
were looking for those kids to find out how
many kids were not going to try out for the
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DA from our clubs.
MR. MANAHAN: So my thought is
this: You know, the pre -- you're calling it
a pre-DA, but it's part of Cup, why aren't
you just keeping that Cup Gold?
MR. RODGERS: We haven't
given it -- it doesn't have a name, but it
has an identification as those would be the
next tier kids.
And again just so, Jim, you
know, we've had these conversations, we can't
call it Pre-DA because you wouldn't accept us
in State Cup, right, because it's a name
affiliated with another league?
MR. STURM: No, that's not true.
MR. MANAHAN: Well, hold on.
MR. STURM: The Crew has
Pre-Academy teams named in the State Cup.
MR. RODGERS: Okay.
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah.
MR. RODGERS: Well, we haven't
decided what we're naming them, so my answer
was we probably weren't going to call them --
MR. MANAHAN: But why is -- I
mean, there's been information that's been
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out there calling them Pre-DA, I mean, let's
be honest.
MR. RODGERS: I agree.
MR. MANAHAN: So you're telling
me that they're not called Pre-DA --
MR. RODGERS: Well, we haven't
come up with what their names are going to be
yet so, yes, that could possibly happen.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay, so that's
little semantics, I get it.
MR. RODGERS: Well, we just
haven't got there yet, we're not that far
down the road.
MR. MANAHAN: Right. So my
question is this: So I'm from Cincinnati, I
think it would be great to have a DA in
Cincinnati if we felt like it was kind of an
independent organization.
Is Bobby Puppione going to coach
both DA and Pre-DA or whatever you're going
to call them, Cup Gold teams, or will he be
strictly just for the DA?
MR. RODGERS: Tiffany and Bobby
will be DA and basically anywhere else
they're needed.
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MR. MANAHAN: So they could
potentially be coaching the DA and a
competitive league team?
MR. RODGERS: They could be
coaching a league team, yes.
MR. MANAHAN: Do you guys not
see that that may rub the rest of the clubs
the wrong way and not have them want to send
their best players to the DA?
MR. RODGERS: If we had enough
coaches to do it without, and that's our game
plan is to eventually get there, that's the
way we would like it to be.
MR. MANAHAN: So you said that
there's four teams per age group, right?
MR. RUFFOLO: No, four age
groups.
MR. MANAHAN: Four total.
There's four age groups. Four teams. But
you're saying that you are so short on
coaches that you have to have Bobby and
Tiffany --
MR. RODGERS: I still have 200
other teams besides --
MR. MANAHAN: I know you have.
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MR. RODGERS: So that's where
the coaching shortage comes out.
MR. MANAHAN: So Bobby is needed
on that side. So I'll just tell you, I like
to be nice and upfront. As long as you got
Bobby coaching in both, and Tiffany coaching
in both, you're going to have a hard time
convincing the rest of the city to go send
players to the DA.
And I really think the city
should embrace it, because it's great. But
the way you've got it set up, and when this
stuff happens like you hold these Combines,
you don't call the other clubs to have kind
of a pre-meeting, say, hey, we're coming,
we'd like you to be a part of it, come join
us, you know, then it looks -- it just
doesn't look genuine, it looks like you guys
are still out there trying to just take
everybody's players, do it the best way you
can, and no one wants to support it.
MR. RODGERS: I understand. We
have reached out to many directors, some have
worked with us, some we're still working to
get to.
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MR. MANAHAN: Right.
MR. RODGERS: We are working our
way through the system, yes.
MR. MANAHAN: So you could help
yourselves a lot by working together with
them versus doing it off on your own,
announcing it to the city, and not involving
everybody else. Just, that's my feedback to
you.
MR. RODGERS: That's one reason
why we're here.
MR. SAUER: Would you be averse
to allowing other clubs and coaches and DOCs
to attend the Combines and watch and observe?
MR. RODGERS: They are more than
welcome to come.
MR. RUFFOLO: Mo?
MR. RAZACK: The U12, 13, 14
boys, what are they doing?
MR. RODGERS: As of right now we
haven't made any decisions. That was given
to us a lot later. If you understand how the
offers were made, US Soccer made the offer
for the boys several months or a couple
months after the girls, so we hadn't made any
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decisions what we were doing yet. And then
all of this came about, so we're just kind of
sitting back with the boys right now waiting
to see how things unfold.
We're moving forward with our
plans to build the program but we haven't
opened up any doors to do anything whatsoever
until some of these conversations were done.
MR. RAZACK: So what you're
saying, your tryout dates is going to be like
a week before the regular tryouts?
MR. RODGERS: If I had it my
way, I would love to do it the week before
Memorial Day, and then --
MR. RAZACK: Okay, so then in
that case if the kids don't make the --
MR. RODGERS: We would go the
23rd, if we had it our way, and again, we're
just sitting on it, we haven't announced
anything, we would love to get the DA over
with the week of the 23rd, and then everybody
with all these older age groups get going the
week after.
If this committee and everybody
comes up with rulings that need to be in
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place, we're here to live by the rules that
go through. We're here to be supportive.
But on the other hand, we do
have a DA to put together, we're going to
have to make decisions based on this
information that is going to be in the best
interest of all considered.
MR. RAZACK: And I'm a hundred
percent with you, all right? If you have the
DA, you need the support of our clubs. I
mean, some places in Columbus did get emails
also to attend, but they also got emails from
Indy Premier, you know, to attend tryouts and
Combine, whatever they call it.
MR. RODGERS: US Soccer feels
that they can reach out to any player that
they feel --
MR. RAZACK: Correct. And
should be, you know, whether they come from
West Virginia or Kentucky.
But you see the perception, I
mean, you've been around the block and you
know when the Crew was involved and it was
the same situation.
So you have tryouts for the DA,
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you guys make the DA, you guys come next week
you'll make the Pre-DA or whatever you guys
going to call it, Cup Gold or Pre-DA. We all
know what it is, it's the Pre-DA.
MR. RODGERS: The difference we
were planning, and I understand completely
what you're saying, was we were giving a gap
for those kids to think about going to
another club. Whereas, what you're saying
happened, and I agree with you completely,
was not just the Crew.
MR. RAZACK: Right.
MR. RODGERS: There were other
entities that had the DA in the state, made
offers to the DA kids and the next level kids
at the exact same time.
MR. RAZACK: Correct.
MR. RODGERS: We were looking to
make the offer to the DA, leave a gap that if
a kid is frustrated and they want to go to
another club, they have every right to do so,
and then more tryouts to go forward.
Now, if that's not going to be
an option for us then we'll, like I said,
we're going to live to the rules that are put
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in place. If we have to do it all in
one shot, we will do it all in one shot. I
don't think it's going to be as productive
but we can make it work, we're not stressed
about that part.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Scott, the
question now I have is Pre-Academy -- I mean
the Academy DA, that's great. Pre-Academy,
why is it that you need to say we're going to
have a Pre-Academy instead of saying to all
the kids, go out to your whatever club you
want to? Because what you're doing then is
telling these kids in order to get on the DA
you have to play for our club on the
Pre-Academy. And I think that is a problem a
lot of people are having.
MR. RODGERS: Uh-huh.
MR. RUFFOLO: And the question
is then for these other clubs, you're getting
an unfair advantage. And that's what we're
here to try to level the playing field.
MR. RODGERS: There's an answer
to that.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. RODGERS: US Soccer has
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informed us that in order to be a
developmental player and a DP where you can
come in and play small percentage of the
game, small environments, you must be in a
very similar training environment to what the
DA does.
So I can't go to Warren County
and see a kid and say, hey, we would like to
give this girl or boy an opportunity to train
in a -- play in a couple matches with the DA,
the DA is going to say, no, that player is
not eligible. So we have to create a
training environment that is similar but
would play in all USYSA leagues that we play
in.
MR. RUFFOLO: Now, those
Pre-Academy kids may get called up to the DA
then, is that what you're saying?
MR. RODGERS: There is an option
for a kid to be brought in as a DP player,
which occurs now with the Crew.
MR. STURM: Okay. And that -- a
couple things while you're on that. That is
the crux of the complaint to the concerns of
the clubs. You hold your DA Academy, you
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invite a hundred kids there, 20 of them make
the DA team, you tell the other 80 you're
pretty good but you're not quite the DA
level, you play for the Cup teams or
Pre-Academy teams, we can keep an eye on you
and, boy, if you get better we can put you
onto the DA team, or we can bring you on as a
temporary player for a tryout. But you can
only do that if you're in the Cup
organization. That is a huge, huge
competitive disadvantage.
MR. SAUER: How many Pre-Academy
teams per age were you planning?
MR. RODGERS: Just one.
MR. STURM: No. Pre-Academy.
MR. RODGERS: A kid that played
on our Silver team or first CU team in
Southeast would not be eligible under US
Soccer to be going into that academy.
MS. STURM: I do have a problem
with some of your rationale for this, about
having early tryouts and then a gap, because
it sounds like you say by doing a gap you're
doing the other clubs a favor. And that's
almost a little condescending from --
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MR. RODGERS: That's your
opinion. I'm giving an opportunity -- first
of all, understand where I'm coming from. I
wouldn't be here if I didn't want to have an
open conversation, okay, I just would have
stayed home and done what we need to do.
Every decision I make is based
on players and what is in the best interest
of a player. I believe if a kid is not happy
when we don't make an offer to them to make
the DA, they should have every opportunity to
go to any club they want to go look at and
have an opportunity to try out for that club.
If we do our tryouts all in one,
which is being proposed here, I do think kids
are not going to get that opportunity. So
it's not I'm trying to do them a favor, I'm
trying to do the players a favor. You have
an opportunity then to say, you know what, I
don't like what they have to say, I'm going
to go over here. We have great clubs on
every corner in the State of Ohio, we just
do, so I think kids should have an
opportunity to pick if there's another club
out there that goes for them.
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If they come to our tryout and
we have to go through our whole entire
process, then they don't get the offer they
want, and all these other clubs are already
done, that kid's going to be in a world of
hurt trying to find a place that they're
happy with. Or they're going to accept us
and then move to transfer. Which you just
talked about the whole transfer rule, which
is, I would love to prevent from happening.
I don't want kids having to move from club to
club.
MR. STURM: Well, first of all,
if they're in the DA, it's not a transfer.
MR. RODGERS: That's what I
said, the DA is different. I'm talking about
all the rest of them.
MR. STURM: But if the DA is so
good, if it is the end-all for the female
player in these age groups, why wouldn't they
go there in the first place?
MR. RODGERS: I'm not talking
about the DA kid, I'm talking about the next
kid. If they're not happy that they didn't
make the DA, I want them to have every
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opportunity to look at any club they want to
look at.
MR. MANAHAN: So let me ask a
question. Going back to what I said about
Bobby, right, when they go to the DA, are you
telling me they're not going to make the
sales pitch that they should stay at CU and
Cup or Kings Hammer to the kids that come
that aren't from CU and Cup or CU and KHA?
So they're standing there, they're at the DA
tryout, you've picked your teams or you have
a good idea who the kids are, we know how
tryouts work and you're talking to parents,
talking to kids, yeah, you know, we think
you're really good, probably not quite on the
DA level but, man, you would be really good
in our Pre-DA or, man, you would be really
good in our Cup Black or Cup Silver or
whatever it is, if you just come here and
work really hard you'll be on that next
level, come here and work hard you can get to
the DA.
Because that's how it works
today, right, we're not stupid, we know
that's how it works today. Hey, come to Cup,
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you can be on Cup Gold. Make it happen in
Cup Black, you get on Cup Gold. That's the
sales pitch. Are we going to see the same
sales pitch with the DA? That's why I got
back to the point about Bobby and Tiffany,
right, because if they're just DA, I still
probably think they'd sell their old clubs,
but at least then they're kind of a separate
entity and you can kind of see the separation
of, okay, now they can go work with other
clubs without those clubs feeling like, man,
that's a Cup coach, that's a Kings Hammer
coach, it's not a DA coach, it's a Cup and
it's a Kings Hammer coach. Until that's
solved you're never going to solve it.
MR. RUFFOLO: I don't think we
can limit the ability of Bobby or Tiffany
from earning income.
MR. STURM: No, you can't.
MR. MANAHAN: I'm not trying to
limit them, I'm just telling them the
perception.
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, you are.
MR. MANAHAN: No, I'm not.
MR. BERNING: Four teams can't
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financially support two top trainers in the
city, right?
MR. MANAHAN: I'm telling them
what the perception is.
MR. BERNING: We understand
that.
MR. RUFFOLO: I understand. But
what I'm saying is, I don't think we can
expect Bobby and Tiffany to say we're only
going --
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah, we can.
MR. RUFFOLO: You think we can
expect them to do that?
MR. RAZACK: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: No, we can't. We
can't expect them to say we're going to limit
ourselves just to the DA.
Let me throw out a question. At
your tryouts, do you know who's going to be
on your Pre-Academy? Are there going to be
different kids that you're going to invite
that weren't already there? Or going to
seek?
MR. RODGERS: We are being told
from our own club that there are kids who
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will not be trying out for the DA, that will
wait for the normal tryout because they
either want to play high school or --
MR. RAZACK: I can attest to
that, John.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, that's fine.
MR. RAZACK: I've had some
meetings with Cup parents a couple weeks ago
before you guys went to Las Vegas with your
National League Soccer.
MR. RUFFOLO: Oh, you were
recruiting those Cup parents?
MR. RAZACK: They came to me for
advice actually. They're on super teams,
they won't come to me. I won't do them the
favor to come to me.
But anyway, so to his point,
some of those kids, especially on the female
side, they want to play high school. So some
of them are going to choose not to play in
the DA because the DA's going to require them
not to play high school.
So to his point, yes, they might
invite them but they're going to say, no, I
want to wait for the Pre-Academy or the team
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they're playing on right now which is the Cup
Gold team and go try out for that team.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, I got it.
MR. RAZACK: Right.
MR. RUFFOLO: Didn't realize
that.
MR. RODGERS: And to be honest
with you, and I'm just throwing our cards on
the table, I know from talking to parents
that some of them want an opportunity to go
look at some other clubs too because they're
afraid once the DA kids are taken away,
what's left behind may not be what they're
looking for.
MR. RAZACK: Correct, yeah.
MR. RODGERS: So they are
looking to shop around. And again, I've
always been that director that says do what
you got to do, it's your career.
MR. STURM: Let me kind of
summarize the concern of the clubs in
Buckeye, and that's, this is not -- yeah,
it's a CUSL issue, but it's also a Buckeye
issue, because we have how many teams, 450
teams out of the District 1, so we're a
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pretty good size piece of that market, too.
MR. RODGERS: Yep.
MR. STURM: How are our clubs
going to know that the kids that don't make
the DA, you're going to encourage them to be
parked on the other Cup teams pending
promotion to the DA, promises of promotion to
the DA? How, what assurance, especially in
the light of the admitted mistake to say this
Combine was both for DA and Pre-Academy
teams? That window's already broken, that
perception --
MR. RODGERS: Yep.
MR. STURM: -- is already out
there that this is going to be a Pre-Academy
tryout. How do you reconcile that in these
other 30-some clubs that have competitive
teams that are already in competition with
Cup? You know, Cup is the big elephant in
the room.
MR. RODGERS: Well, that's the
reason why we got the DA.
MR. STURM: And that's why you
got the DA.
MR. RODGERS: Uh-huh.
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MR. STURM: But now they're
competing effectively for the most part with
the Cup teams, but now they've got this huge
disadvantage at them and they're looking to
the state organization to level the playing
field out like it used to be. How can Cup
hold these early tryouts when it was Cup that
actually proposed these dates in the first
place early winter?
MR. RODGERS: This is before we
picked our DA stuff, this had nothing to do
with DA, but fair enough.
MR. STURM: Yeah, but you agreed
to this back in --
MR. RODGERS: Uh-huh.
MR. STURM: And you actually
were the ones, it's my understanding, that
set this as the parameters for it, but now
that you've got everybody else in CUSL locked
into this, you are going off and doing
tryouts earlier. Seems inconsistent.
MR. RODGERS: Not for these
groups. But, again, we didn't know this.
The reason we did this was a completely
different reason, which is what he stated,
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again we didn't know what we were doing at
that point. But I understand that.
I would ask the question back,
and have asked a few DOCs, what would make
you feel comfortable? Because the honest
answer is, and we all know it, there isn't
any guarantee that's going to make everybody
feel comfortable, is there? I mean, we can
tell our staff not to say anything, we can
tell our people not to do stuff, we can tell
our people -- and hopefully our people won't,
but it doesn't matter, somebody's going to
say it happened anyway, because that's what
happens.
Just like there's an ECNL
meeting coming up here in a couple weeks that
Tim and Doug are hosting and you don't mean
to tell me some kids aren't going to be told
they can play in the ECNL? They've already
been told. I already know kids in my club
that have already been told don't worry about
next year, don't go to the DA, you can play
in the ECNL, you got a spot here. It happens
in all recruitings.
So again, I don't want to get
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into the recruiting part of it because it
happens, it happens all over the city.
My answer to you is, what can we
do to make a DA program function correctly
and still have the competitive teams
underneath? Because our club isn't going
away.
MR. MANAHAN: I gave you that
answer. Make it separate. And I disagree
with you, I'm not trying to make Bobby not
earn his money. If you want to put Bobby
down to the Cup teams, fine, put him there.
I'm just saying having that separation
between the people that are coaching and
running the DA and those bottom teams, at
some level, you know, even if it's a separate
coach for those Pre-DA teams, then at least
you can go to the clubs and say that, and
say, hey, we're separating this, we
understand the concern, hey, come work with
us. Versus --
MR. RODGERS: What happens if
they're coaching non-Pre-DA teams but youth
teams?
MR. MANAHAN: I think you would
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have a much better chance of having people
accept and work with you. But I think you'd
have to go to the clubs and talk to them
instead of doing it off separate. Come talk
to them first, say, hey, this is how we want
to set it up, would this make you comfortable
enough to send your best player to the DA?
Because that's what it is, right, it's one or
two players. We're not talking about a
hundred. One or two. And if you could make
people comfortable you're going to -- that
that's the case, then maybe it would take
that one player and go play in the DA.
That's your best opportunity if you want to
go be on the National team, play in the NWSL.
It is, we know it is. We want to support it,
to be honest, we just can't in the current
form.
MR. RUFFOLO: So let me rephrase
what you're saying is, basically you're
saying, okay, Bobby and Tiffany, DA. But if
they want to help out the club, as long as
they're not covering the Pre-DA, Pre-Academy,
then you're okay if they have other teams
that they coach?
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MR. MANAHAN: Yes. I'd be more
okay if they were either coaching one or the
other, but that would help, yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. I think
what, and I appreciate this, Scott, that
you're coming to us with questions, and I
hope all of you guys appreciate this --
MR. MANAHAN: I do.
MR. RUFFOLO: -- because we had
a problem up in Columbus and we don't want to
have that problem. We don't want to do that
again. And I really appreciate your time.
Jim, you have something to add?
MR. STURM: Scott, you asked
what could be done, you, I mean, I don't want
to paraphrase your question, but in essence
is, what could be done to help satisfy the
concerns, correct?
MR. RODGERS: Uh-huh.
MR. STURM: Two things. First
of all, it's what you could have done in the
past. And that is, as soon as you were
awarded the DA, which everybody heard about
probably about a minute after you did, call
the clubs together and say, okay, here's --
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we got the DA, we want your support, here's
what we're planning is, give us your input
now, before you make announcements, before
you do surveys, before you send out
inappropriate Twitters, get them on board.
You and I did talk back in January several
times. One of the statements you made to me
was you've learned from the mistakes that the
Crew made in setting up their DA and creating
all the animosity in Columbus.
From my perspective, you're
starting to make the same mistakes the Crew
did and you're getting the same reaction that
the clubs in Columbus gave to the Crew DA,
and continue to do so.
Mistake in the past, can't
correct that. What can you do in the
forward? And this is what I'm proposing,
that this by-law be put in effect this year.
In essence, you have one year to show the
clubs in Cincinnati -- and it's really a
Cincinnati club issue. You're going to draw
a couple players out of Columbus, maybe a few
out of Dayton, not a big deal. But in the
next year, show the clubs in Cincinnati that
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you want to be their partner, not their
opponent.
As an example, FC Cincinnati,
when they came in, they learned from the
Crew. FC Cincinnati has said publicly
they're never going to have an FC Cincinnati
Juniors program to take away from the clubs,
they want to partner with the clubs.
My suggestion to you is in the
next year you figure out a way to partner
with the clubs so that they -- you get their
buy-in. If you get to the point that their
buy-in, and instead of a dozen emails saying,
no, we like this rule because it's going to
hurt us, it's unfair, it's not a level
playing field, then this by-law can go away
if the clubs realize that you are following
through with your promises that you're not
going to park kids that didn't make the DA on
your other teams, you're going to send them
back to the club that they came from, you're
not going to encourage them to go to the Gold
and the Black team with the hope that they
can make the DA.
MR. RODGERS: That's going to be
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a trick. I mean, first of all, I understand
what you're saying, and we are meeting with
DOCs individually because it's easier in an
individual conversation to let them tell us
what their concerns are. Maybe we'll have a
group meeting afterwards, but different clubs
have different needs -- I mean different
concerns.
A kid who wants to be in the DA
and says they're going to come to another
tryout, I can't not take them.
MR. STURM: No. Not saying
that.
MR. RODGERS: Okay. That's why
I wanted a separate tryout where I could say
to a DOC, say, look, they registered, they
showed up, they're just like you, if a kid
shows up and they're good enough to play
we're going to take them on that team.
MR. STURM: Nobody would expect
you not to take a good player that came to
your tryouts, nobody is suggesting that that
would be good business, it would be bad
business.
But I can assure you if a kid
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doesn't make the DA, is not the top 20, and
you tell them we need you to play for the
second team, that word will get back very
quickly.
MR. RODGERS: Well, that's where
I'm saying is under this by-law if we said
you don't want the DA to happen prior to
this --
MR. STURM: Yep.
MR. RODGERS: -- we're going to
have to do it in one room, we're going to
have to put our second team together at the
same time, correct? I'm not going to be able
to wait two weeks, all those kids will be
picked somewhere else.
So if we can have a DA tryout, a
gap, and then the rest of our club tryouts,
then I can tell you we'll do our best to make
sure that happens.
If the tryouts are like this,
I'm going to have to go, you're DA, you're
next team, you're the third team. I'm going
to have to do it at that time.
MR. STURM: I understand that.
Every club that has multiple teams in an age
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group does that very same, you're on the
Black team, you're on the Gold team, dah,
dah, dah, dah.
But if what you're saying is
you're -- you make that choice and you say
you're DA, you're Gold team, but I need you
on Gold team because you're potential DA, as
soon as that -- that's crossing the line that
every coach in the club is afraid of. That
is the kinds of coercion that the clubs are
afraid of.
If you make up a straight offer
you're on the Gold team, okay, everybody that
has multiple teams in an age group does that,
A, B, C team. But that encouragement to --
that coercion to come to the Gold team so you
may make the DA team at some point in the
future, that's, that's the nub of it right
there.
That's why I'm saying go through
one year with that and get the support of the
clubs, and although I know you said you're
meeting with the DOCs one-on-one --
MR. RODGERS: Certain ones, yep.
We can expand that.
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MR. STURM: An open meeting
where a lot of people can sit in and have a
roundtable might be a better effective,
because the perception is you want to meet
with this guy but you don't want to meet with
this guy. The perception is, well, you told
this guy one thing but this guy heard
something else in another meeting. One big
meeting a lot of times might be a more
effective and cohesive way of getting the
message out. That's why I'm proposing this
be done for a year.
MR. RODGERS: But is this saying
that DA groups can or cannot go on the week
of the 23rd?
MS. STURM: Well, they can in
the 18s.
MR. RODGERS: So we're saying
the tryouts will occur simultaneously?
MR. STURM: Yes.
MR. RODGERS: Which we're
prepared to do. We're making sure everybody
understands though, and in my conversations
with directors, when a kid shows up we're
going to make our offers to whatever team we
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think they fall.
MR. BERNING: You're being
contradictory, I'm sorry to interrupt here,
because if you make the DA have the tryout on
the May 30th, the DA, the Pre-DA, the Cup,
the CU, they're all going to be on the exact
same time. So what you want us to do is we
can't tell them to go to another club.
MR. RUFFOLO: Because they're
going to all be there.
MR. BERNING: They're all going
to be --
MR. RUFFOLO: They're all going
to be there.
MR. STURM: Not necessarily.
MR. BERNING: What do you mean
not necessarily?
MR. STURM: Because --
MR. BERNING: If you force all
of the U11s to be on May 30th, all my CU
teams, all the Cup teams, all the DA kids,
every one kid is going to be in one spot and
we're going to say DA, Pre-DA, Cup, CU, and
we're done, and they're not going to be able
to go see other clubs.
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MR. RODGERS: That's what we're
trying to make sure we understand. We
understand what your situation is and what
you're saying, and we're agreeing that to do
that, a gap in between the two tryouts makes
the most since, so now a kid who is mad at me
who didn't make the DA has time to call Mo
and say what can you offer me up there in
Columbus or what can Ohio Elite offer me or
CSA offer me or ACE, and say, hey, what are
these other clubs offering. Under these
rules they're not going to be able to do
that.
MR. STURM: Yeah, they could.
Here's how. You hold your DA tryouts on
May 30th, you hold your Cup tryouts two days
later.
MR. RODGERS: Why would we?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: That's a
disadvantage.
MR. RODGERS: I'm not going to
go to a disadvantage to the other clubs so my
answer is no.
MR. STURM: Do all the clubs
hold their tryouts on May 30th?
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MR. RODGERS: I'm going to tell
you right now, my two biggest competitors in
the last couple years have held their tryouts
very, very quickly right at the beginning of
everything and they're done in two days.
We've gone three days and four
days at times and taken chances that we might
lose a kid. By extending our tryouts, we
have to condense to meet the demands of the
city, yes.
MR. STURM: Well, all I can tell
you is --
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, I'm going
to -- I have to --
MR. SAUER: Mo's been having his
hand up.
MR. RUFFOLO: I know. Mo?
MR. RAZACK: No. The DA --
which ages do you have on the Gold that
you're proposing to have your early tryouts
one week early?
MR. RODGERS: Well, we would do
them all, but the answer are 14s, 15, 16, 18.
MR. STURM: Well, you can do
your 18s early.
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MR. RAZACK: Right. So I don't
see any --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: What about
12s?
MR. RODGERS: We don't have them
on the girls. The boys have --
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Oh, the boys
have 12, okay.
MR. RODGERS: -- 12, 13, 14.
MR. RAZACK: So those are the
seven teams that will have early tryouts?
MR. STURM: So -- hold on.
You're going to hold early tryouts for 12, 13
and 14 boys, too?
MR. RODGERS: I didn't say that.
The DA's just sitting there right now, we
haven't made any decision on the boys' side.
But if we went according to the rules, yes,
we would go the 30th on the 12s, 13s and 14s,
we would go according to this plan and we
would put not only our DA teams but our
Pre-DA teams and our Cup Silvers and our CU
Southeast and our CU Sycamore and our CU
Lakota together as fast as humanly possible
because we can't take a chance on all those
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kids leaving and going to other clubs.
MR. STURM: But if we leave out
of here and tomorrow you decide to do the 12,
13, 14s, you're going to hold early tryouts
for them? So in essence --
MR. RODGERS: I'm asking if
that's even an option. We haven't made the
decision because the boys decided to wait for
this ruling to come down. So the boys are
just sitting there right now going we're not
doing anything until we know what we're
allowed to do at all.
MR. STURM: But if we don't pass
this then conceivably tomorrow you could
announce early tryouts for the 12s, 13s and
14s?
MR. BERNING: On the boys DA,
right?
MR. STURM: On the boys DA. But
it represents the same problems for the clubs
that you're proposing for the girls' four age
divisions. So altogether this would be
giving Cup an advantage on over half of the
divisions in 12s through 18s.
MR. RODGERS: Again, I
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understand where you're saying there's an
advantage, I also see disadvantages, but
that's -- some kids would be seen, yes.
MR. COOK: Can we hear what Mo
has to say?
MR. STURM: 20 -- I said a dozen
clubs are aware of that and they're
supporting this proposal, those are 20
Cincinnati clubs.
MR. RODGERS: And we're prepared
to do this schedule. I just want to make
sure everybody knows --
MR. RUFFOLO: Hold on a second.
We've got back and forth. Mo, what is your
comment?
MR. RAZACK: I was just going to
propose, you know, I'm with Scott, you know,
I mean, they've done a great job at Cup and
stuff, and their record shows it, so if we
need to help the academy and we can
compromise where we do the girls, you know,
14 through 18s in one week early, because
it's going to be an advantage to some of
those clubs as well. If they know they made
the DA or didn't make the DA, then they have
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the option to come try out at any other club
the week after, all right? So they're going
to know that.
And certainly with the social
media stuff, they're going to be known,
people are going to know, hey, we were told
we didn't make the DA but we're going to make
the Pre-DA and be in that pool of players.
People are going to talk. And at that point
you're going to lose your credibility with
us.
MR. RODGERS: Correct.
MR. RAZACK: All right? So I
recommend on the boys' side we leave the
playing field even with all the clubs for
this year until we figure out exactly what's
going on with the DA. But, you know, if -- I
think that's going to -- sometimes it
backfires, these things, because now you've
got to produce a team at the National level
and you've got to produce a team at the DA
and you can't cross-point kids in two
different leagues like that. So he's right,
so he's either got to pull some more kids to
play on, to make his National team, or he's
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going to lose kids to ECNL or to other clubs.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. A
couple of things on this proposed tryout law
based on this email that I got. Well, not
me, but Tom got.
I'm noticing it says limiting
tryouts for Developmental Academy teams would
be detrimental to the development of
potential National team players in Southern
Ohio, therefore, the proposed rule would be
contrary to the best interest of soccer in
the USSF National team programs. I think we
got to look at that, guys, before we either
agree or disagree on that proposal.
He didn't cite any rule, but
that concerns me for having that because what
we're trying to do is, if we pass this rule,
we are going to be limiting them, and I don't
know if that's necessarily what we want to
have an issue with US Soccer.
So we've had a lot of
discussion. I think we have a motion and an
entry -- or a second. I'm thinking of law.
And in that motion we've indicated that
Paragraph 3.6.6 would be eliminated. So the
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question is before us. Do we have anything
further to discuss?
MR. SAUER: Did Mo have a motion
to change the -- he wanted to change
something.
MR. RUFFOLO: You want to change
it?
MR. SAUER: I mean, then that
would have to be seconded and vote on the
proposal to change it before you vote on
the --
MR. STURM: Yes, that is
correct. Do you have a motion to amend?
MR. RAZACK: Yes. I would just
amend they allow that, on the girls' side,
the 14 through 18s, to have their tryouts one
week before.
MR. SAUER: 14, 15, 16, 18.
MR. RAZACK: 14 through --
MR. STURM: Is that for
everybody or just the DA teams?
MR. RAZACK: Girls' DA.
MR. STURM: Now, hold on. Hold
on. If you're going to start making a rule
to allow a group to have tryouts that aren't
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even part of us, we have never had an Ohio
South rule that says this rule applies to
this group but not to this group.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. My point,
though, then is you're saying they're not a
part of us, so why are we putting rules to
limit what they're doing?
MR. STURM: We are not limiting
what the DA does. We are not, because this
email says we can't.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay.
MR. STURM: But what we are
doing in the proposal is, if the DA is part
of a club that holds early tryouts for,
regardless -- by the way, we do have early
indication it was for Pre-Academy teams --
that they can't be a part of any league.
They can hold DA tryouts.
In fact, if the only team that
they were going to have was the four DA
girls' teams, there's nothing we could do,
but the fact that they have the girls' DA
teams and other teams in our competitive
leagues, that's the problem.
MR. RUFFOLO: So basically since
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Cup was awarded the DA along with Kings
Hammer --
MR. RODGERS: On the girls' side
Kings Hammer. Boys, just Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: Boys, just Cup?
MR. RODGERS: Just Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: And the girls'
side, Kings Hammer?
MR. RODGERS: And Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: And Cup, okay.
Because of that then we're telling them in
order for them to have a DA they have to
disassociate themselves from Cup?
MR. STURM: In fact --
MR. RUFFOLO: I mean, our rule
is saying that.
MR. STURM: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Because they can't
have any of those people try out for their
teams the next week.
MR. RODGERS: Unless we do
tryouts exactly the same time.
MR. RUFFOLO: I understand.
MR. RODGERS: So if I do DA
tryouts --
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MR. RUFFOLO: I understand. My
thing is, I really am hearing the idea of
having it for the kids a week early and then
letting them have options to go somewhere
else.
If they're all trying out at the
same time for DA and everything else, they
are not going to have the chance to try out
for their other teams unless those other
teams have tryouts later than the DA, and so
they're going to get hurt because most kids
will not make that DA team. They'll want to
make that DA team, but they won't. And so
what are we doing, we're hurting those kids.
Our priority, guys, have to be
the kids. And what we're doing is hurting
them by passing this rule that affects the DA
program and Cup and Kings Hammer. Just
because they were awarded, we should be
ecstatic that it's in Southwest Ohio.
Now, as a coach, it's not a
great thing, it's not a great thing for me.
But as a player, as a person who is promoting
the players, we should be ecstatic.
MR. MANAHAN: I'm going to say
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this: The big winner in all this is Cup and
Kings Hammer. And we really are not going to
help ourselves if we pass this, we're not
going to help ourselves if we don't pass it.
The bottom line is they got the DA, they're
going to do what they want, it's going to
happen, so either -- I don't even know if
it's worth passing.
MR. RUFFOLO: So do we want to
limit kids' ability to play for other teams?
MR. MANAHAN: I never want to
limit kids' ability to play for anybody.
MR. STURM: Here's the thing
though, John.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yeah.
MR. STURM: They go through
that -- how many tryouts are in Cincinnati in
the spring from all the different clubs and
all the different days? 200, ballpark?
MR. RODGERS: How many days?
MR. STURM: Yeah, tryout
opportunities.
MR. MANAHAN: You mean different
clubs?
MR. STURM: Different clubs,
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different days, different age groups.
MR. RUFFOLO: For age groups,
it's three or four days.
MR. STURM: Yes. So my point
is, there's already potential for conflict
for kids that, do I want to play for Cup, do
I want to play for Ohio Elite, those
opportunities are for kids to make choices --
MR. COOK: That's totally
different because if I have a kid that's
coming from Columbus, they're going to go to
all four DA days, they're not going to go to
two and then come to my mine for two, they're
going to go to his for all four days. I'm
losing them if he does it the week before and
he accepts them or I'm losing them period,
they're going to go and stay in Cincinnati
afterwards.
MR. STURM: If this proposal
cuts out an exception for the Cup, DA,
Pre-Academy teams, it is patently unfair to
put the other teams, the other 98 percent of
the players in Ohio South at a competitive
disadvantage. You got to do it for one, you
do it for everybody. You can't have --
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MR. COOK: But what you're
telling them, though, is his kids are going
to go try out for the DA. They're not going
to come back to them. So if we're doing all
at one time, he's losing them anyways, and
now he's losing them for good instead of
having an opportunity saying, hey, look, you
are a good player, if you make the DA,
congratulations; if not, remember we are
still here.
MR. MANAHAN: The truth of the
matter is they have an advantage either way,
they got the DA, they're going to make offers
to second, third, fourth teams.
MR. COOK: But they can't
technically do that until --
MR. MANAHAN: Well, they may not
until tryouts but they're going to talk to
kids there, that's the way it works. So to
me, what's the point of us having this if
it's, I mean, we certainly don't want to be
in a position where we're having to go to
have litigation with US Soccer, that's just
foolish. You know, if they're saying that
they're the DA, they can do what they want,
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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that's what's going to happen. What I would
really prefer is if CU and Kings Hammer would
be good citizens and come work with the
clubs. You know, forget all these rules and
everything, just go be good citizens. Don't
compete with us.
MR. RUFFOLO: I think by them
coming here today --
MR. MANAHAN: It's a start.
MR. RUFFOLO: It's a very good
start.
MR. MANAHAN: You don't live in
Cincinnati.
MR. RUFFOLO: I don't live in --
I don't have any teams anymore, guys, I'm out
of it. I'm out of it. I'm not worried about
it anymore, okay?
MR. MANAHAN: That's a lot
easier.
MR. RUFFOLO: When I had my
other kids that were really good, yeah, I was
always after his boys and they were always
after ours.
MR. MANAHAN: Yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. Not -- but
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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anyway --
MR. MANAHAN: So I don't know if
it's worth it for us to pass a rule that
we're going to invite the US Soccer --
MR. RUFFOLO: We have a motion,
we have a second. Mo, are you going to amend
your motion?
MR. RAZACK: I can't because I'm
not a member league.
MR. RUFFOLO: You could amend a
motion, you're on the board.
MR. RAZACK: No, but I'm saying
if we make an exception to the DA, which is
not part of Ohio South.
MR. RUFFOLO: Right. So it's no
motion?
MR. RAZACK: Yeah.
MR. RUFFOLO: So we have a
motion and a second. Anything else? All
right. All in favor, raise your hand? All
opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. STURM: Great. Buckeye will
be having tryouts to match whatever you do,
Scott.
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MR. BLIEDEN: I got to, as a CU
member I have to abstain.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, you abstain?
For the record, he, Steve abstained. Let's
take two minutes. That was a long
discussion, guys.
(WHEREUPON, a brief recess was
taken.)
(Scott Rodgers and Brian Berning
left the meeting.)
(WHEREUPON, a discussion was
held in Executive Session.)
MR. RUFFOLO: The international
clearance form, can we hold that off, Jim?
MR. STURM: Well, the only
problem is we start registering players
June 1.
MR. RUFFOLO: When's our next
meeting?
MR. STURM: June 17th, something
like that.
MR. FRISBIE: 13th.
MR. RUFFOLO: Can we move a
meeting to May? I know we've got State Cup,
but can we move a meeting to May?
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MR. MANAHAN: No.
MR. RUFFOLO: No?
MR. STURM: This by-law, as Tom
and I already -- I sent it to Tom several
weeks ago, he believes it meets all the
requirements. The challenge is --
MR. RUFFOLO: So do I. If that
means anything. Does anybody have any
problem with it?
MR. BALDEOSINGH: Make a motion
to accept.
MR. RUFFOLO: You got a motion.
I got a second?
MR. STURM: Yes.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. All in
favor? Anyone opposed?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MS. STURM: Very quickly, the
present rules let this year's player passes
be used as birth identification. We have no
idea if the underlying birth certificate is
US or not. This allows, for this year only,
to not use that, and it clarifies what can
and can't be used.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay, we did the
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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executive. Authorization to hire member
services, we'll hold off.
MS. STURM: I'll pass this
around. I've changed the title, as suggested
by several people, to Business Development
Director. Gordon has expressed an interest
in talking about it over the next two months,
I'll meet with him and see what else he wants
to tune it up with.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. And then we
had a proposed amendment to State Cup or
something like that.
MR. MANAHAN: That's mine.
MR. RUFFOLO: Yes.
MR. MANAHAN: Mine's real easy,
it has to do with Lesh. I think we need to
eliminate the second sentence that's in the
rule that basically kicks him out of State
Cup for the following year based on a
forfeit, because I one hundred percent agree
with these guys that came in tonight, that is
a sad state of affairs that we're having the
team not participate.
MR. RUFFOLO: I agree with you,
totally.
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MR. MANAHAN: So if we eliminate
that second sentence, it eliminates that
they're not able to participate in --
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. We have a
motion to eliminate the sentence that says
that after the first year you
automatically --
MR. MANAHAN: Here, I'll do the
motion. For rule 10.2.8, eliminate the
sentence that says the team shall be
prohibited from entering the following year
State Cup or President's Cup.
MR. RUFFOLO: I would say may be
prohibited. That way if it's a very bad
violation, we can do something about that.
MR. MANAHAN: Okay.
MR. RUFFOLO: Do you have any
issues with that?
MR. MANAHAN: No.
MR. STURM: Tom, is there a part
of the National Championship rules that say
if you cheat this year you can't play next
year?
MR. MANAHAN: Then why do we
have a separate rule?
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MR. FRISBIE: I don't know if
what you're saying is correct, I'll have to
check that.
MR. STURM: I move that we table
this until we verify whether it's contrary
to --
MR. RUFFOLO: I agree. That's
fine.
MR. MANAHAN: That's fine.
MR. RUFFOLO: Mo, you had a
motion you wanted to give?
MR. RAZACK: Those guys left.
They asked me to bring a motion forward to at
least reconsider what the board has decided
before.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. First of
all, I'm going to stop you real quick. We
did not do anything because we didn't have an
official motion and there wasn't a second, so
there was no vote.
From now on, if we have email
votes, so all of you know, they're outside of
a meeting so it's basically a written vote,
it needs to be in writing and unanimous,
okay? If we don't have an actual meeting,
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SHELL COURT REPORTING(937) 855-3406
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all right? That's in most charters and the
statute, okay? Now --
MR. STURM: It's also in our
constitution now.
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. So in
order for us to do an email vote, it has to
be unanimous. We didn't get to that vote
because there wasn't a motion and a second.
So, Mo, you're doing a motion now to allow
them in. We don't know how it's going to
work but you would like a motion to allow
them in. Is there a second to that motion?
MR. HILTON: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Solly's got a
second to that motion. Okay, limited
discussion. How do we get them back in?
MR. SAUER: Can we get them back
in?
MR. RUFFOLO: Well, wait a
minute. Wait a minute.
MR. FRISBIE: I've already
conferred with the NCS Chair and he's said
you can't do that.
MR. RUFFOLO: Okay. That's a
problem.
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MR. STURM: I ask that we call
the question because if we do it contrary to
the National Championship rules, we're
required to follow those rules.
MR. RUFFOLO: I'm there. I just
want to put it on record that we did look at
it, we got our motion, got a second. All in
favor of the motion, please signal by raising
your hand?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: No one raised
their hand -- well, the guys that raised
theirs, Mo and Solly, and everybody else is a
nay. Okay, that does not pass.
Anything else for the good of
the game, Tom?
MR. FRISBIE: There's a
housekeeping piece for State Cup that I
passed around that had to do with a new
clause for National Championship series
regarding match fixing. I would just move
that we adopt the match fixing clause as a
portion of our State Cup rules.
MR. RUFFOLO: Do I have a
motion?
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MR. COOK: Motion.
MR. BALDEOSINGH: So move.
MR. RUFFOLO: Second?
MR. HILTON: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: All in favor?
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
MR. RUFFOLO: All right. I want
to thank all of you. I don't think I have
anything else. Anything else for the good of
the game? Thank you, everybody, have a safe
trip back.
MR. MANAHAN: Should I move to
adjourn?
MR. RUFFOLO: Yeah, move to
adjourn. Move to adjourn.
MR. STURM: Second.
MR. RUFFOLO: Second.
(WHEREUPON, a vote was taken.)
(Meeting concluded at 9:44 p.m.)
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C E R T I F I C A T E
I, Tina M. Shell, a Registered
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that
the foregoing is a full, true and correct
transcript of my notes taken in the
above-styled case and thereafter transcribed
by me.
/s/ Tina M. ShellTina M. Shell
Registered Professional Reporter