nlrb | in re northwestern university and capa | transcript 2/18/2014

8/10/2019 NLRB | In Re Northwestern University and CAPA | Transcript 2/18/2014

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OFFICIAL REPORT OF PROCEEDINGS

BEFORE THE

NATIONAL LABOR RELATIONS BOARD

In the Matter of: Case No.: 13-RC-121359

NORTHWESTERN UNIVERSITY

Employer

And

COLLEGE ATHLETES PLAYERS

ASSOCIATION (CAPA)

Petitioner

Place: Chicago, IL

Date: 02/18/2014

Pages: 23-313

Volume: 2

_______________________________________________________

OFFICIAL REPORTERS

Veritext National Court Reporters

Mid-Atlantic Region1250 Eye Street, NW-Suite 1201

Washington DC 20005

888-777-6690


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1250 EYE STREET- SUI TE 1201- WASHI NGTON DC 20006- - 888- 777- 6690VERI TEXT NATI ONAL COURT REPORTI NG COMPANY

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UNI TED STATES OF AMERI CA

BEFORE THE NATI ONAL LABOR RELATI ONS BOARD

Regi on 13

NORTHWESTERN UNI VERSI TY, ) ) Empl oyer , ) ) and ) No. 13- RC- 121359 )COLLEGE ATHLETES PLAYERS )ASSOCI ATI ON ( CAPA) , ) ) Pet i t i oner . )

The cont i nuat i on of t he above ent i t l ed mat t er came on

f or hear i ng pur suant t o not i ce, bef ore J OYCE A. HOFSTRA,

Hear i ng Of f i cer , at 219 Sout h Dearbor n St r eet ,

Room 1300, Chi cago, I l l i noi s, on Tuesday, Febr uar y 18,

2014, at 9: 35 a. m.


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1 A P P E A R A N C E S

2 On behal f of t he Empl oyer :

3 MECKLER BULGER & TI LSON, LLP By MR. ALEX V. BARBOUR

4 al ex. bar bour @mbt l aw. com MS. ANNA WERMUTH5 anna. wer mut h@mbt l aw. com

MR. J EREMY J . GLENN6 j er emy. gl enn@mbt l aw. com

123 Nor t h Wacker Dr i ve - Sui t e 18007 Chi cago, I l l i noi s 60606

( 312) 474- 44508

and9

NORTHWESTERN UNI VERSI TY10 OFFI CE OF GENERAL COUNSEL By MR. THOMAS G. CLI NE

11 Vi ce Pr esi dent and Gener al Counsel 633 Cl ar k St r eet

12 Evanston, I l l i noi s 60208 ( 847) 491- 5605

13 t - cl i ne@nort hwestern. edu

14On Behal f of t he Pet i t i oner :

15

LEGGHI O & I SRAEL, PC16 By MR. J OHN G. ADAM

j ga@l egghi oi sr ael . com17 306 Sout h Washi ngt on - Sui t e 600

Royal Oak, Mi chi gan 4806718 248- 398- 5900

19 and

20 BREDHOFF & KAI SER, PLLC By MR. W. GARY KOHLMAN

21 gkohl man@br edhof f . com

MS. RAMYA RAVI NDRAN22 r r avi ndr an@br edhof f . com 805 Fi f t eent h St r eet , NW

23 Washi ngt on, D. C. , 20005 ( 202) 842- 2600

24

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1 ALSO PRESENT:

2 MS. J ANNA BLAI S, Deput y Di r ect or of At hl et i cs,

3 Seni or Woman Admi ni st r at or

Nor t hwest er n Uni ver si t y4 1501 Cent r al St reet Evanst on, I l l i noi s 60208

5 ( 847) 491- 7893 j - bl ai s@nor t hwest er n. edu

6

7 MR. TI M WATERS, Pol i t i cal Di r ect or Uni t ed St eel wor ker s

8 Fi ve Gat eway Cent er , Pi t t sbur gh, PA 15222

9 ( 412) 562- 2295 t waters@usw. org

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1 I N D E X

2 Openi ng St atement by Mr . Adam . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29

3 Openi ng St at ement by Mr . Barbour . . . . . . . . . . . . . 33

4 PETI TI ONER' S EVI DENCE

5 THEODI S KAI N COLTER:

6 Di r ect Exami nat i on by Mr . Adam . . . . . . . . . . . . 53

7 Cr oss- Exami nat i on by Ms. Wer mut h . . . . . . . . . . 194

8 Redi rect Exami nat i on by Mr . Adam . . . . . . . . . . 295

9 Recr oss- Exami nat i on by Ms. Wer mut h . . . . . . . . 303

10 Exami nat i on by Hear i ng Of f i cer Hof st r a . . . . 304

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1 P R O C E E D I N G S

2 ( Ti me Not ed: 9: 35 a. m. )

3

4 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: The hear i ng i s

5 r esumed f r om Febr uary 12t h i n t he mat t er of

6 Nort hwest er n Uni ver si t y, Case 13- RC- 121359.

7 The f i r st t hi ng t hat I want t o t ake car e of

8 i s I want t o put i nt o evi dence Boar d Exhi bi t 3, a

9 copy of whi ch has been gi ven t o al l par t i es. I t i s

10 a copy of t he l et t er t hat we sent t o t he Nat i onal

11 Col l egi at e At hl et i c Associ at i on, as - - f or t he

12 pur pose of ser vi ng t hem wi t h a copy of t he pet i t i on

13 i n t hi s mat t er .

14 I t i s my under st andi ng t hat when t he par t i es

15 gi ve t hei r posi t i ons t oday t hat t hey wi l l be - - a

16 par t of t hat posi t i on wi l l be t hei r posi t i on on

17 whet her t he NCAA shoul d be i nvol ved i n t hi s mat t er ,

18 ei t her as an i nt er est ed par t y or a j oi ned empl oyer .

19 I n addi t i on, i t ' s my under st andi ng t hat t he

20 par t i es wi l l put i nt o t hei r posi t i on t hei r posi t i on

21 on whet her or not CAPA i s a l abor or gani zat i on

22 wi t hi n t he meani ng of t he Act , and t hat possi bl y

23 t her e wi l l be a st i pul at i on on t hat mat t er .

24 Normal l y i n t hese pr oceedi ngs t he Empl oyer

25 i n t hi s case woul d have - - t he bur den i s on t he


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1 Empl oyer , and t hey woul d begi n wi t h t hei r evi dence.

2 However , wi t h agr eement of al l par t i es, t he

3 Pet i t i oner wi l l be pr esent i ng i t s t wo wi t nesses

4 f i r st , and t hen we wi l l move on t o t he Empl oyer

5 af t er t hat f act .

6 So I wi l l ask, Mr . Bar bour and Mr . Adam, do

7 you have any obj ect i ons t o t he r ecei pt of Boar d

8 Exhi bi t 3 i nt o t he r ecor d?

9 MR. ADAM: No.

10 MR. BARBOUR: No.

11 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Thank you. Boar d

12 Exhi bi t 3 i s r ecei ved i nt o evi dence.

13 ( Boar d Exhi bi t No. 3 was r ecei ved

14 i nt o evi dence. )

15 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay.

16 Mr . Bar bour , woul d you l i ke t o gi ve your

17 openi ng st at ement ?

18 MR. ADAM: Act ual l y, I woul d pr ef er t hat

19 CAPA gi ve i t s openi ng st at ement f i r st .

20 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. That ' s

21 f i ne, i f you have no obj ect i on, Mr . Bar bour ?

22 MR. BARBOUR: That ' s f i ne.

23 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay.

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1 OPENI NG STATEMENT

2 BY MR. ADAM:

3 I am J ohn Adam, at t or ney f or t he Col l ege

4 At hl et es Pl ayer s Associ at i on. We ar e her e t oday

5 because CAPA f i l ed a pet i t i on f or an el ect i on t o be

6 conduct ed by t he Nat i onal Labor Rel at i ons Boar d f or

7 t he 85 Nor t hwest er n Uni ver si t y schol ar shi p f oot bal l

8 pl ayer s.

9 CAPA i s a l abor or gani zat i on. CAPA seeks t o

10 r epr esent t he f oot bal l pl ayer s. These pl ayer s

11 pr ovi de val uabl e ser vi ces t o t he Uni ver si t y. They

12 do so accor di ng t o st r i ct r ul es and under t he

13 r i gor ous di r ect i on of t he f oot bal l coaches and t he

14 Uni ver s i t y at hl et i c staf f .

15 I n r et ur n, t he pl ayer s get compensat ed f or

16 t hei r ser vi ces wi t h schol ar shi ps and ot her benef i t s.

17 As i s wel l - known, Nor t hwest er n i s a

18 pr est i gi ous pr i vat e uni ver si t y i n Evanst on,

19 I l l i noi s, wi t hi n t he geogr aphi c j ur i sdi ct i on of NLRB

20 Regi on 13.

21 Nor t hwest ern has a sophi st i cated and

22 accompl i shed f oot bal l pr ogr am super vi sed by a

23 pr of essi onal coachi ng st af f . The pr ogr am compet es

24 i n t he nat i onal l y known Bi g Ten Conf erence.

25 We wi l l show, pr i mar i l y t hr ough t he


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1 t est i mony of accompl i shed Nor t hwest ern quar t er back

2 and t eam co- capt ai n Kai n Col t er , t hat f oot bal l

3 pl ayer s ar e wor ker s ent i t l ed t o vot e i n an

4 NLRB- conduct ed secr et bal l ot r epr esent at i on

5 el ect i on.

6 Nor t hwest er n f oot bal l pl ayer s must be

7 di sci pl i ned, t hey must be f i t , t hey must be

8 di l i gent , r esi l i ent , and smar t . Nor t hwest er n

9 f oot bal l pl ayer s must be dedi cat ed. Nor t hwest er n

10 pl ayer s meet t hese demandi ng r equi r ement s. They

11 must put i n l ong hour s year r ound.

12 Dur i ng t he season pl ayers devote 40 or 50 or

13 mor e hour s t o t hei r f oot bal l r esponsi bi l i t i es. I n

14 shor t , as we wi l l show i n t hi s hear i ng, bei ng a

15 f oot bal l pl ayer at Nor t hwest er n i s har d wor k. And

16 make no mi st ake about i t , i t i s wor k. I t i s a l abor

17 of l ove f or most of t hese pl ayer s, but i t i s l abor .

18 And i t i s compensated l abor wi t h schol ar shi p and

19 st i pends. And l i ke al l compensat ed wor k i n al l of

20 t he workpl aces governed by t he Nat i onal Labor

21 Rel at i ons Act i n t he Uni t ed St at es, i t i s subj ect t o

22 t he f undament al r ul e. No work, no compensat i on.

23 Foot bal l pl ayer s ear n t hei r compensat i on

24 wi t h bl ood, sweat , and t ear s.

25 As you wi l l hear , Nor t hwest er n i s a good


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1 empl oyer . Thi s case i s i nvol vi ng Nor t hwest er n, not

2 t he NCAA. The pl ayers appr eci ate what Nor t hwest ern

3 does f or t hem. At t he same t i me, however , t hey want

4 a voi ce i n t hei r wor ki ng condi t i ons. They want a

5 voi ce i n t hei r heal t h and saf et y, i n t hei r medi cal

6 t r eat ment , i n t hei r i nsur ance, i n t hei r pr esent and

7 f ut ur e when t hey are no l onger pl ayers, but need

8 more t i me t o f i ni sh school or when t hey need medi cal

9 t r eat ment f or t he i nj ur i es t hat st ay wi t h t hem l ong

10 af t er f oot bal l , somet i mes f or ever .

11 The Nat i onal Labor Rel at i ons Act pr ot ect s

12 wor ker s seeki ng a voi ce i n wor ki ng condi t i ons.

13 Her e, CAPA asked f or a secr et bal l ot el ect i on so

14 t hat t he pl ayer s can vot e t o cer t i f y CAPA as thei r

15 r epr esent at i ve and t o asser t a col l ect i ve voi ce.

16 Some r ef er t o t he pl ayer s as

17 st udent - at hl et es, but t hey ar e st udent s and

18 at hl et es. They ar e separ at e and di st i nct r ol es.

19 They per f or m val uabl e ser vi ces f or Nor t hwest er n i n

20 t hei r capaci t y as f oot bal l pl ayer s. They have

21 subst ant i al r esponsi bi l i t i es and obl i gat i ons t o t he

22 f oot bal l pr ogr am. They ar e under Nor t hwest er n' s

23 r i gor ous cont r ol on and of f t he f i el d year r ound.

24 They must gi ve f oot bal l t hei r f i r st pr i or i t y.

25 They ar e st udent s t oo. Ther e i s no di sput e


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1 We have had an oppor t uni t y t o r evi ew

2 documents provi ded by CAPA. And al t hough CAPA does

3 not cur r ent l y have a const i t ut i on and byl aws, we' ve

4 r evi ewed t hei r f oundi ng st at ement , whi ch i s i ncl uded

5 i n t he document s t hat ar e a par t of t he st i pul at ed

6 exhi bi t s.

7 And based on t hat r evi ew, Nor t hwest ern i s

8 wi l l i ng t o st i pul at e t hat CAPA i s a l abor

9 or gani zat i on wi t hi n t he meani ng of Sect i on 25 of t he

10 Act , subj ect t o t he f ol l owi ng condi t i ons.

11 Fi r st , CAPA i s a l abor or gani zat i on onl y i f

12 t he st udent - at hl et es CAPA seek t o r epr esent i n t hi s

13 case, members of Nor t hwest ern' s f oot bal l t eam who

14 r ecei ve at hl et i c schol ar shi ps, are ul t i mat el y f ound

15 t o be empl oyees wi t hi n t he meani ng t he Act .

16 And second, CAPA i s a l abor or gani zat i on

17 onl y i f t he uni t CAPA seeks t o r epr esent , whi ch i s

18 nar r owl y l i mi t ed t o t he Nor t hwest er n f oot bal l

19 pl ayer s who r ecei ve at hl et i c schol ar shi ps, i s f ound

20 t o be an appr opr i at e uni t .

21 The r eason f or t hi s second condi t i on i s t hat

22 accor di ng t o CAPA' s f oundi ng st atement i n

23 Sect i on 301, i t s member shi p i s speci f i cal l y l i mi t ed

24 t o schol ar shi p at hl et es who par t i ci pat e i n t he FBS

25 bowl subdi vi si on of t he NCAA and Di vi si on I men' s


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1 basket bal l .

2 Ther ef or e, i f t he Boar d f i nds t hat

3 Nor t hwest er n' s schol ar shi p pl ayer s ar e empl oyees

4 wi t hi n t he meani ng t he Act , but concl udes t hat t he

5 uni t sought by CAPA must i ncl ude other cat egor i es

6 such as wal k- ons who do not r ecei ve at hl et i c

7 schol arshi ps, t hen CAPA woul d not be a l abor

8 or gani zat i on under t he Act because i t ' s f oundi ng

9 st at ement excl udes t hese st udent - at hl et es f r om t he

10 nar r owl y def i ned t wo cat egor i es t hat CAPA i s wi l l i ng

11 t o r epr esent .

12 Tur ni ng now t o t he f undament al t hr eshol d i n

13 t hi s case, whet her t he f oot bal l pl ayer s who r ecei ve

14 at hl et i c schol ar shi ps ar e empl oyees wi t hi n t he

15 meani ng t he Act , t her e' s no quest i on t hat t hi s i s

16 t he f undament al t hr eshol d i ssue.

17 Dur i ng t he hear i ng, Nor t hwest er n wi l l pr ove

18 t hat i t s st udent at hl et es, i ncl udi ng t hose who

19 par t i ci pat e on i t s f oot bal l t eam and r ecei ve

20 at hl et i c schol ar shi ps, ar e f i r st , f or emost, and

21 al ways st udent s as opposed t o empl oyees wi t hi n t he

22 meani ng t he Act .

23 Nor t hwest er n wi l l pr esent evi dence showi ng

24 t hat t he at hl et i c schol ar shi p r ecei ved by some, but

25 no means al l members of t he f oot bal l t eam, are not


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1 by any st r et ch of t he i magi nat i on compensat i on f or

2 ser vi ces r ender ed f or pl ayi ng f oot bal l . I nst ead,

3 t hey ar e f or t he sol e and excl usi ve pur pose of

4 pr ovi di ng ai d t o t he st udent - at hl et es t o assi st i n

5 f i nanci ng a wor l d- cl ass educat i on.

6 To suppor t t hat cont ent i on, Nor t hwest er n

7 wi l l pr esent evi dence showi ng t hat t he at hl et i c

8 schol arshi p f unds r ecei ved by some, but agai n by no

9 means al l of i t s pl ayer s, have absol ut el y no bear i ng

10 on t he act ual per f or mance of any f oot bal l act i vi t i es

11 or , i ndeed, t he ul t i mat e qual i t y or ski l l of t he

12 i ndi vi dual pl ayer s.

13 Al l 85 f oot bal l pl ayer s who ar e awar ded

14 f ul l - r i de at hl et i c schol ar shi ps - - and t hat number

15 i s regul at ed by t he NCAA - - r ecei ve basi cal l y t he

16 same schol ar shi p benef i t s - - t ui t i on, books, f ees,

17 r oom and boar d - - r egar dl ess of t hei r at hl et i c

18 per f or mance on t he f i el d or , i ndeed, whet her t hey

19 even pl ay.

20 These benef i t s ar e cer t ai nl y not

21 compensat i on f or ser vi ces r ender ed i n t he

22 t r adi t i onal sense or even i n a nont r adi t i onal sense.

23 I n f act , Nor t hwest er n wi l l show t hat a

24 f oot bal l pl ayer can r ecei ve t he f ul l benef i t s of

25 t he schol ar shi p, even t hough he never set s f oot on


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1 t he f i el d.

2 Nor t hwest er n wi l l f ur t her pr esent evi dence

3 showi ng t hat f or t he past t wo year s i t has of f er ed

4 some of t he pl ayer s on i t s t eam f ul l - r i de/ f our - year

5 schol ar shi ps wi t h basi cal l y no st r i ngs at t ached,

6 pr ovi ded t hat t he pl ayer compl i es wi t h

7 Nor t hwest er n' s r ul es of conduct and schol ar shi p

8 st andards.

9 The st udent athl et e, f or exampl e, may never

10 set f oot on t he f i el d, but r ecei ve t he same

11 schol ar shi p benef i t s as t he st ar pl ayer .

12 How t hei r schol ar shi p can be r egar ded as

13 compensat i on f or ser vi ces under t hi s scenar i o si mpl y

14 def i es l ogi c.

15 Addi t i onal l y, Nor t hwest er n wi l l pr ove t hat

16 despi t e bei ng awar ded an at hl et i c schol ar shi p based

17 on t he ant i ci pat i on and expect at i on t hat t he

18 r eci pi ent wi l l excel on t he f oot bal l f i el d, t hat by

19 no means i s t he sol e or gui di ng cr i t er i a f or

20 r ecrui t i ng pr ospect i ve st udent - at hl et es t o

21 par t i ci pat e i n Nor t hwest er n' s f oot bal l pr ogr am.

22 Al l pot ent i al st udent - at hl et es ar e vet t ed by

23 Nor t hwest ern' s admi ssi ons depar t ment , and no st udent

24 at hl et e i s of f er ed an at hl et i c schol ar shi p unl ess a

25 det er mi nat i on i s i ni t i al l y made t hat t he st udent


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1 at hl et e wi l l sat i sf y Nor t hwest er n' s r i gor ous

2 academi c st andar ds and wi l l be abl e t o successf ul l y

3 gr aduat e f r om t he Uni ver si t y.

4 I n ot her words, academi cs al ways t r umps

5 at hl et i cs at Nor t hwest er n. And Nor t hwest er n' s

6 academi c success consi st ent l y i s r anked at t he t op

7 of t he NCAA FBS Di vi si on I i n t he gr aduat i on r at es

8 of i t s st udent - at hl et es.

9 Frankl y, Nor t hwest er n has a gr eat deal of

10 di f f i cul t y under st andi ng why i t was even chosen as

11 t he t est case f or deci di ng whet her any of i t s

12 st udent - athl etes are empl oyees wi t hi n t he meani ng of

13 t he Act .

14 The r eal i t y i s, and we wi l l pr ove, t hat t he

15 exper i ence of a f oot bal l pl ayer at Nor t hwest er n i s

16 par t and par cel of hi s over al l educat i onal

17 exper i ence.

18 Nor t hwest er n i s not a f oot bal l f act or y. I t

19 i s f i r st , f or emost , and al ways a pr emi er academi c

20 i nst i t ut i on.

21 I t subscr i bes t o t he pr i nci pl e t hat

22 st udent - at hl et es, even t hose who wer e r ecr ui t ed and

23 r ecei ved schol ar shi ps, do so i n or der t o r ecei ve a

24 wor l d- cl ass educat i on. And Nort hwest er n spends

25 subst ant i al r esour ces on act i vi t i es ai med at


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1 pr omot i ng t he academi c success of i t s

2 st udent - at hl et es, i ncl udi ng of f er i ng i t s at hl et es

3 f r ee t ut or i ng servi ces, mor e academi c advi ce beyond

4 t hat of f er ed by ot her uni ver si t i es, as wel l as

5 personal and career devel opment oppor t uni t i es.

6 The emphasi s t hat Nor t hwest ern pl aces on

7 academi c success i s borne out by t he f act t hat

8 Nor t hwest er n has t he hi ghest gr aduat i on r at e i n

9 Di vi si on I FBS f oot bal l , as wel l as a cumul at i ve

10 gr ade poi nt average over 3. 0 f or t he st udent

11 at hl et es on t he f oot bal l t eam.

12 I n shor t , par t i ci pat i on i n f oot bal l or any

13 var si t y spor t s act i vi t y i s si mpl y par t and par cel of

14 t he over al l educat i onal exper i ence.

15 Last , but by no means l east , Nor t hwest ern

16 wi l l pr esent evi dence showi ng t hat t her e ar e

17 numerous publ i c pol i cy r easons why t he Boar d shoul d

18 not f i nd t he f oot bal l schol ar shi p at hl et es at

19 Nor t hwest ern t o be empl oyees wi t hi n t he meani ng of

20 t he Act .

21 These i ncl ude:

22 Fi r st , CAPA' s obj ect i ves coul d not be

23 achi eved t hr ough col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng wi t h

24 Nor t hwest er n. Rat her , most of t he obj ect i ves CAPA

25 desi r es t o achi eve ar e not even cont r ol l ed by


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1 Nor t hwest er n Uni ver si t y.

2 Second, col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng f or t he

3 so- cal l ed r evenue spor t s, f oot bal l and basket bal l ,

4 woul d adver sel y i mpact t he non- r evenue spor t s.

5 Addi t i onal l y, col l ecti ve bar gai ni ng woul d

6 cr eat e compet i t i ve bal ance i ssues t hat woul d ar i se

7 bet ween uni ver si t i es wi t h uni oni zed f oot bal l

8 progr ams and t hose wi t hout t hem.

9 Al so, ext endi ng col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng r i ght s

10 t o col l egi at e f oot bal l coul d have Ti t l e 9

11 r ami f i cat i ons.

12 Addi t i onal l y, any col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng

13 r i ght s t o col l egi at e f oot bal l woul d r equi r e a

14 compl ete over haul and r evampi ng of t he exi st i ng

15 governance st r uct ur e, both at t he NCAA and t he Bi g

16 Ten Conf erence l evel .

17 Last , but by no means l east , col l ect i ve

18 bargai ni ng i n onl y a smal l segment of t he NCAA FBS

19 school s, t he 17 pr i vat e uni ver si t i es who compet e at

20 t hat l evel , i s i mpr act i cal and si mpl y woul d not

21 wor k.

22 The model of col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng t hat CAPA

23 i s espousi ng i n t hi s case i s si mpl y a Rube Gol dber g

24 cont r apt i on t hat woul d not wor k i n t he r eal wor l d.

25 Addi t i onal l y, Nor t hwest er n wi l l pr ove, apar t


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1 f r om t he f act t hat t he st udent - at hl et es sought by

2 Pet i t i oner are not empl oyees wi t hi n t he meani ng of

3 t he Act , but t hey are, at best , t emporary empl oyees.

4 Based on t he t r ansi t or y nat ur e of t hei r

5 so- cal l ed empl oyment , l i mi t ed t o t he t i me

6 constr i ct i ons on t hei r pl ayi ng el i gi bi l i t y, as wel l

7 as t he t r ansi t or y nat ur e of par t i ci pat i on i n t he

8 f oot bal l pr ogr am, t hey are t emporary empl oyees and

9 cannot , i n any sense of t he wor d, f or m t he nucl eus

10 of an appr opr i at e col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng agr eement .

11 The f i nal poi nt I woul d l i ke t o make deal s

12 wi t h uni t scope and el i gi bi l i t y i ssues.

13 As I st at ed l ast week, Nor t hwest er n bel i eves

14 t hat t he uni t sought i n t hi s case i s ar bi t r ar y and

15 not appr opr i at e f or col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng. I t

16 si mpl y makes no sense t o cr eat e a uni t j ust l i mi t ed

17 t o t he f oot bal l pl ayer s who r ecei ve at hl et i c

18 schol ar shi ps.

19 Under t hi s def i ni t i on, t he uni t woul d be

20 l i mi t ed t o t he 85 pl ayer s who r ecei ve t hose

21 schol ar shi ps. But i n f act , t he Nor t hwest er n

22 f oot bal l r ost er t ypi cal l y r anges i n s i ze f r om 105 t o

23 112 st udent - at hl et es i ncl udi ng wal k- ons, some of

24 whom r ecei ve need- based f i nanci al ai d and others who

25 r ecei ve no f i nanci al ai d what soever .


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1 Al l pl ayer s on t he r ost er , r egar dl ess of

2 whet her t hey r ecei ve an at hl et i c schol ar shi p, ar e

3 pl ayi ng under t he same r ul es and condi t i ons. Some

4 of t he wal k- ons, who make up approxi mat el y

5 25 per cent of t he r ost er , r ecei ve need- based

6 f i nanci al ai d f r om t he Uni ver si t y.

7 Ot hers r ecei ve no ai d what soever .

8 And t her e i s no way t hat t he Pet i t i oner ,

9 ei t her l ogi cal l y or l egal l y, can expl ai n why t he

10 wal k- ons do not have t he same i nt erest as t he

11 schol ar shi p at hl et es.

12 Yet , t he Pet i t i oner obvi ousl y has t o concede

13 t hat t wo of t hese gr oups, t he wal k- ons who ei t her

14 r ecei ve no ai d, or t hose who r ecei ve need- based ai d,

15 cl ear l y are not empl oyees wi t hi n t he meani ng of t he

16 Act , because t hey r ecei ve no compensat i on.

17 Fi nal l y, as I poi nt ed out , anot her r eason

18 t he Boar d shoul d not f i nd t he uni t appr opr i at e i s

19 based upon composi t i on and el i gi bi l i t y i ssues.

20 J ust by way of exampl e, t her e wi l l be

21 t est i mony f r om Kai n Col t er , who i s a gr aduat i ng

22 seni or who has exhaust ed hi s el i gi bi l i t y.

23 Ther e ar e al so ot her seni or s on t he t eam who

24 have exhaust ed ei t her t hei r f our - year or t hei r

25 f i ve- year el i gi bi l i t y and woul d not be el i gi bl e t o


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1 vot e i n any el ect i on.

2 Li kewi se, t her e ar e new r ecr ui t s comi ng ont o

3 t he t eam who have si gned nat i onal l et t er s of i nt ent ,

4 have been t ender ed f our - year schol ar shi ps, but yet

5 t hey' ve never set f oot on a f oot bal l pl ayi ng f i el d.

6 But yet under t he uni on' s def i ni t i on of what

7 t he uni t woul d be, t hey woul d have t o argue t hat

8 t hey woul d be i ncl uded i n t hat uni t and somehow

9 el i gi bl e t o vot e, even t hough t hey' ve never set f oot

10 on t he f oot bal l f i el d.

11 Thank you ver y much. That ' s, i n a nut shel l ,

12 t he Uni ver si t y' s posi t i on.

13 I bel i eve you had al so asked a quest i on.

14 You want ed t he par t i es' posi t i ons wi t h r espect t o

15 i nt er vent i on?

16 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Yes. I di d want

17 t he par t i es' posi t i ons on whet her or not t he NCAA

18 coul d pot ent i al l y be a j oi nt empl oyer , at l east an

19 i nt er est ed par t y, i n t hese pr oceedi ngs.

20 MR. BARBOUR: Okay. As f ar as t he

21 Uni ver si t y i s concer ned, we do not bel i eve t hat

22 t her e i s any j oi nt empl oyer i ssue what soever her e,

23 nor do we bel i eve t hat t he NCAA i s a necessary or

24 i nt er est ed par t y.

25 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Thank you.


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1 MR. BARBOUR: Thank you.

2 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Mr . Adam, f or t he

3 Pet i t i oner , as f ar as t he NCAA, whet her or not t hey

4 woul d be a j oi nt empl oyer or an i nt er est ed par t y i n

5 t hese pr oceedi ngs?

6 MR. ADAM: We ar e not cont endi ng here t hat

7 t he NCAA i s t he j oi nt empl oyer , and we do not

8 bel i eve t hey have a r i ght t o i nt er vene i n t hi s

9 mat t er .

10 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Thank you.

11 Al so f or t he Pet i t i oner , do you st i pul at e t o

12 t he l abor or gani zat i on st i pul at i on, wi t h bot h

13 l i mi t at i ons, as read i nt o t he r ecor d by Mr . Bar bour ?

14 MR. ADAM: Wel l , we st i pul ate t hat we are a

15 l abor or gani zat i on.

16 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Wel l , he

17 had r ead i nt o t he r ecor d - -

18 MR. ADAM: So I underst and hi s condi t i onal

19 obj ect i ons, and I under st and t hem, yes.

20 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Do you

21 st i pul at e t hat - - t o t he ent i r et y of what he r ead

22 i nt o t he r ecor d?

23 He r ead i nt o t he r ecor d t hat CAPA i s a l abor

24 or gani zat i on onl y i f t he pet i t i on f or a uni t i s

25 f ound t o be empl oyees under t he Nat i onal Labor


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1 Rel at i ons Act , and onl y i f t he pet i t i oned- f or uni t

2 i s f ound t o be appr opr i at e.

3 I f t he Regi on wer e t o det er mi ne t hat a

4 di f f er ent uni t wer e appr opr i at e i n t hi s mat t er , t hen

5 I bel i eve t he Empl oyer ' s posi t i on i s that CAPA woul d

6 not be a l abor or gani zat i on.

7 MR. ADAM: Wel l , I di sagr ee wi t h t he

8 ar gument t hat ' s cont ai ned i n t hat obj ect i on, because

9 CAPA i s pr epar ed t o pr oceed wi t h an el ect i on i f t he

10 r egi onal di r ect or det er mi nes that t he uni t shoul d be

11 expanded. But I under st and hi s obj ect i on.

12 But I t hi nk even i f CAPA, f or what ever

13 r eason - - i f t he Regi on wer e t o f i nd or t he Boar d

14 wer e t o f i nd t hat t he at hl et es ar e not empl oyees, I

15 st i l l bel i eve i t meet s t he Boar d' s def i ni t i on of a

16 l abor organi zat i on seeki ng t o r epr esent what i t

17 bel i eves ar e empl oyees i n commerce.

18 But i t r eal l y i s a secondar y i ssue, i f we

19 est abl i sh t he f oot bal l pl ayer s ar e at hl et es. I

20 t hi nk we wi l l be on sol i d gr ound on t he l abor

21 or gani zat i on i ssue.

22 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. I j ust

23 want ed t o make sure t hat t her e was a st i pul at i on on

24 t he r ecor d on t hat .

25 So you' r e i n di sagr eement on t he second


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1 submi t t ed i nt o evi dence and whatever t est i mony

2 evi dence t hat you pr esent on t hat mat t er .

3 I t hi nk at t hi s poi nt , j ust t o cl ar i f y t hat

4 we do have a st i pul at i on, t hat condi t i onal on a

5 f i ndi ng t hat t he pet i t i oned- f or uni t i s f ound t o be

6 empl oyees, t hat CAPA i s a l abor organi zat i on under

7 t he meani ng of t he Act .

8 Do you so st i pul at e t o t hat ?

9 The empl oyer won' t wi t hout t he second - -

10 MR. BARBOUR: The empl oyer wi l l not

11 st i pul at e wi t hout t he second pr ong of t he condi t i on.

12 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Wel l , I

13 t hi nk t hat ' s goi ng t o be - - have t o be l ef t t o,

14 t hen, t he det er mi nat i on by t he r egi onal di r ect or i n

15 t hi s mat t er . That , obvi ousl y, you' r e put t i ng

16 document s - - CAPA i s put t i ng t he r ecor ds i nt o

17 evi dence, and t hat wi l l be r evi ewed by t he r eader of

18 t he r ecor d, and t hat det er mi nat i on, t hen, wi l l have

19 t o be made i n t he deci si on.

20 MR. ADAM: Ri ght . CAPA has pet i t i oned f or

21 t he schol ar shi p f oot bal l pl ayer s.

22 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Cor r ect .

23 MR. ADAM: But we' ve al so st ated t hat i f t he

24 r egi onal di r ect or det er mi nes t hat t he uni t shoul d

25 i ncl ude wal k- ons, t hen we are pr epar ed t o pr oceed


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1 wi t h an el ect i on on t hat basi s.

2 And CAPA i s a new l abor or gani zat i on. I t

3 i ssued a f oundi ng st atement . We don' t have any

4 col l ect i ve bar gai ni ng r i ght s wi t h any exi st i ng uni t .

5 And as t he document s i ndi cat e, CAPA wi l l - - has t he

6 r i ght t o adopt and modi f y i t s posi t i on on cer t ai n

7 t hi ngs.

8 So we want t o r epr esent t he f ootbal l

9 pl ayer s. We' ve pet i t i oned f or a speci f i c uni t , and

10 we' r e pr epar ed t o pr oceed i n any el ect i on t hat t he

11 r egi onal di r ect or f i nds appr opr i at e.

12 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Yes, I do

13 under st and t hat . I t hi nk t hat was made cl ear l ast

14 week.

15 I guess my poi nt i s , i s t hat i f i t ' s

16 det er mi ned t hat t he uni t i s - - ar e empl oyees, t hen

17 t hat i ssue won' t up come up at al l , i f i t ' s t he

18 pet i t i oned- f or uni t and t hey ar e f ound t o be

19 empl oyees.

20 I f t he r egi onal di r ect or det er mi nes t hat

21 some ot her uni t i s appr opr i at e, based on t he

22 empl oyer ' s posi t i on, t he r egi onal di r ect or at t hat

23 poi nt woul d have t o deter mi ne i f CAPA i s a l abor

24 or gani zat i on i n t hat ci r cumst ance.

25 I guess i s t hat cl ear t o ever ybody?


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1 MR. ADAM: I underst and t he posi t i on of t he

2 empl oyer , yes.

3 MR. BARBOUR: ( Noddi ng. )

4 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. Gr eat . Al l

5 r i ght . Thank you ver y much.

6 Ar e t here any other i ssues t hat we need t o

7 addr ess bef or e we st ar t t he wi t ness t est i mony?

8 MR. ADAM: Coul d we j ust t ake a shor t - - a

9 f i ve- mi nut e br eak?

10 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Yes. Of f t he

11 r ecor d.

12 ( Recess t aken. )

13 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. We' r e goi ng

14 on t he r ecor d now. Coul d everyone pl ease t ake a

15 seat ?

16 On t he r ecord.

17 Mr . Adam, i t ' s my underst andi ng t hat t he

18 par t i es want t o submi t i nt o evi dence j oi nt exhi bi t s?

19 MR. ADAM: Yes. We have submi t t ed t o your

20 hear i ng of f i cer what we cal l st i pul at ed exhi bi t s.

21 Nor t hwest er n and CAPA st i pul at e t o t he aut hent i ci t y

22 of Exhi bi t s Number ed 1 t hr ough 33, wi t hout - - and

23 t hese document s have been gi ven t o you, and t he

24 par t i es have t hem i n bi nder s.

25 We ar e cal l i ng t hem j oi nt exhi bi t s, al t hough


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1 some are i t ems we want admi t t ed and some ar e i t ems

2 t hat t he Uni ver si t y want s admi t t ed.

3 And we r eser ve any ar gument s we may have as

4 t o whether t he document s have any si gni f i cance, but

5 we' r e st i pul at i ng t hat t hey shoul d be admi t t ed f or

6 pur poses of t hi s hear i ng.

7 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. So j ust so

8 i t ' s cl ear , you may - - ei t her par t y mi ght have i ssue

9 wi t h a par t i cul ar document or i t s r el evancy t o t he

10 case t hat you wi l l put i nt o t he r ecor d, but t her e' s

11 no di sagr eement t hat J oi nt Exhi bi t s 1 t hr ough 33,

12 bot h par t i es ar e agr eei ng t o submi t t hem i nt o

13 evi dence.

14 I s t hat cor r ect , Mr . Adam?

15 MR. ADAM: Yes .

16 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Mr . Bar bour?

17 MR. BARBOUR: That i s cor r ect .

18 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: And al so at some

19 poi nt , bot h par t i es wi l l be r ef er r i ng t o t hese

20 document s, as t o t hei r r el evancy, f or whoever wi shes

21 t o have t hem i nt o evi dence, and what t he Regi on

22 shoul d be l ooki ng at i n t hese par t i cul ar document s;

23 i s t hat cor r ect ?

24 MR. ADAM: Yes .

25 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Mr . Bar bour?


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1 MR. BARBOUR: Yes. I can' t r epr esent t hat

2 i n each and ever y case t her e wi l l be act ual wi t ness

3 t est i mony wi t h r espect t o each of t hese j oi nt

4 exhi bi t s. But cer t ai nl y, at some poi nt i n t he

5 pr oceedi ng, whet her i t ' s dur i ng t he hear i ng or i n

6 post hear i ng br i ef s, t he par t i es cer t ai nl y wi l l

7 i nf or m t he r egi onal di r ect or of why t he par t y

8 bel i eves t hat t hose par t i cul ar document s ar e

9 r el evant and what por t i ons of t he document s ar e

10 r el evant and f or what pur pose.

11 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Gr eat . Thank you.

12 Okay. I wi l l r ecei ve i nt o evi dence J oi nt

13 Exhi bi t s 1 t hr ough 33.

14 ( J oi nt Exhi bi t s No. 1- 33 wer e

15 r ecei ved i nt o evi dence. )

16 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Ar e t here any

17 ot her i ssues?

18 MR. ADAM: No.

19 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. The

20 Pet i t i oner has cal l ed i t s f i r st wi t ness.

21 Mr . Col t er , can you pl ease st and and r ai se

22 your r i ght hand.

23 ( Wi t ness dul y swor n. )

24 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Okay. You can

25 have a seat .


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1 Pl ease st at e and spel l your name f or t he

2 r ecor d.

3 THE WI TNESS: Theodi s Kai n Col t er .

4 T- h- e- o- d- i - s, K- a- i - n, C- o- l - t - e- r .

5 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: Thank you.

6 Mr . Adam?

7 THEODI S KAI N COLTER,

8 cal l ed as a wi t ness on behal f of t he Pet i t i oner ,

9 havi ng been f i r st dul y swor n, was exami ned and

10 t est i f i ed as f ol l ows:

11 DI RECT EXAMI NATI ON

12 BY MR. ADAM:

13 Q Good mor ni ng. I s i t okay i f we cal l you

14 Kai n?

15 A Yes, you messed up f or about a week and

16 cal l ed me Theodi s , but Kai n i s a l i t t l e bi t

17 easi er .

18 Q Thank you. Yes. Kai n i s easi er f or me.

19 Kai n, I woul d l i ke t o get some backgr ound

20 i nf or mat i on f r om you.

21 And j ust coul d you tel l us a l i t t l e bi t

22 about your f ami l y?

23 A Yes. I come f r om a ver y at hl et i c f ami l y.

24 Bot h my uncl e and my f at her pl ayed col l ege

25 f oot bal l . My uncl e pl ayed at USC. My dad pl ayed


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1 at t he Uni ver si t y of Col or ado. A ver y suppor t i ve

2 f ami l y, both my parent s went t o CU, Col orado

3 Uni ver si t y.

4 I have a younger si st er , Hannah Col t er .

5 She' s 17.

6 Q And your f at her , di d he pl ay of f ense or

7 def ense?

8 A He pl ayed def ense.

9 Q Di d your - - when your f at her was at

10 Col or ado, di d he have any coaches t hat event ual l y

11 f ound t hei r way t o Nor t hwest er n?

12 A Yes. Ther e' s a bunch of wei r d

13 connect i ons. Coach Bar net t was act ual l y I t hi nk

14 t he quar t erback coach at Col or ado when my dad was

15 t her e. He l ef t Col or ado t o be t he head coach at

16 Nor t hwest er n. And t hen he l ef t Nor t hwest ern t o be

17 t he head coach at Col or ado. So. . .

18 Q And you' r e r ef er r i ng t o Gar y Bar net t ?

19 A Yes.

20 Q Thank you.

21 Coul d you j ust t el l us what hi gh school you

22 went t o and what spor t s you pl ayed i n hi gh school ?

23 A I went t o Boul der Hi gh School f or my

24 f r eshman and sophomore year , and then t r ansf er r ed

25 t o Cher r y Cr eek Hi gh School f or my j uni or and


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1 seni or year . I pl ayed t r ack, basket bal l , and

2 f oot bal l .

3 Q Any other spor t s?

4 A I t r i ed out f or t he gol f t eam, but gol f

5 was t he same season as f oot bal l , and i t j ust

6 di dn' t wor k out , unf or t unat el y.

7 Q You sai d you t r i ed out , meani ng - - di d

8 you get cut f r om t he gol f t eam?

9 Never mi nd, I ' l l wi t hdr aw t he quest i on. I ' m

10 sorry.

11 How di d your hi gh school t eam do t he l ast

12 coupl e year s of your hi gh school car eer ?

13 A My j uni or year we went t o t he st at e

14 champi onshi p, l ost - - agai n, t hanks f or br i ngi ng

15 up t hese bad memor i es.

16 My seni or year we di d pr et t y good, made t he

17 pl ayof f s . So. . .

18 Q And you were r ecr ui t ed?

19 A Yes.

20 Q And can you j ust t el l us, i n gener al ,

21 whi ch col l eges or uni ver si t i es r ecrui t ed you?

22 A Yes. I r ecei ved qui t e a f ew schol ar shi p

23 f oot bal l of f er s. I was commi t t ed t o St anf or d f or

24 most of my j uni or year , ended up de- commi t t i ng.

25 And af t er t hat I chose between Nebr aska,


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1 Nor t hwest er n, Ar i zona St at e, TCU, Col or ado, Kansas

2 St at e.

3 Q And when you say you wer e r ecr ui t ed, what

4 were you recrui ted f or ?

5 A To pl ay bal l , t o pl ay f ootbal l .

6 Q And dur i ng t he r ecrui t ment pr ocess, di d

7 Nor t hwest er n cont act you?

8 A Yes. I t hi nk i t was af t er my sophomor e

9 year I sent t hem my hi ghl i ght t ape and got a cal l

10 f r om t hem af t er t hey saw my hi ghl i ght t ape. They

11 of f er ed me bef or e my j uni or and seni or year .

12 Q And as par t of t he r ecrui t ment pr ocess,

13 can you t el l us what happened, how t hey - - you

14 wer e r ecrui t ed by Nor t hwest er n, j ust i n gener al

15 t er ms?

16 A Yeah. The r ecrui t i ng pr ocess i n gener al

17 f or hi gh school f oot bal l pl ayers i s crazy. You

18 have al l t hese coaches f l yi ng i n t el l i ng you how

19 gr eat you ar e, what a gr eat f oot bal l pl ayer you

20 ar e, come t o my uni ver si t y and get t aken car e of ,

21 you' r e goi ng t o go t o t he NFL, bl ah, bl ah, bl ah,

22 j ust ki nd of , you know, sel l i ng t hemsel ves t o you.

23 And t hen at t he end of t he day you make a

24 choi ce.

25 Q And I don' t want t o spoi l t he news, but


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1 who di d you commi t t o?

2 A Nor t hwestern.

3 Q And when di d you st ar t at Nor t hwest er n?

4 A The summer of 2010, I bel i eve.

5 Q And so j ust t o ki nd of gi ve an over vi ew,

6 you pl ayed f oot bal l at Nor t hwest er n i n 2010, 2011,

7 2012, and 2013?

8 A Cor r ect .

9 Q And you' r e gr aduat i ng f r om Nor t hwest er n?

10 A Yes. Thi s i s t he l ast quar t er . I ' m

11 act ual l y enrol l ed i n school st i l l r i ght now. And

12 af t er t hi s quart er I ' l l have al l my r equi rement s

13 f i ni shed.

14 Q And you wi l l gr aduat e wi t h what ki nd of

15 degr ee?

16 A Psychol ogy.

17 Q And whi l e you pl ayed at Nor t hwest er n, can

18 you t el l us j ust what posi t i ons you pl ayed?

19 A I pl ayed quar t er back, wi de r ecei ver , and

20 r unni ng back.

21 Q Not al l at t he same t i me, I hope, r i ght ?

22 A No.

23 Q Di d you ever pl ay def ense?

24 A No. I f t he coach woul d l et me, but no.

25 Q Now, Kai n, I woul d l i ke t o t ur n your


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1 at t ent i on t o Exhi bi t No. 9. I t i s i n t he bi nder

2 t her e.

3 A Okay.

4 Q What i s t hat ?

5 A Thi s i s my bi ogr aphy.

6 Q And who publ i shed t hat ?

7 A I ' m guessi ng t he Nor t hwest er n at hl et i c

8 depar t ment .

9 Q Di d you wr i t e up t he bi ogr aphy?

10 A No, I di dn' t .

11 Q That ' s on t he Nor t hwest ern websi t e?

12 A Cor r ect .

13 MR. ADAM: I woul d move - - I guess i t ' s

14 al r eady admi t t ed so I don' t have t o move f or i t , t he

15 admi ssi on of exhi bi t s?

16 HEARI NG OFFI CER HOFSTRA: No, you don' t .

17 I t ' s al r eady i nt o t he r ecor d.

18 MR. ADAM: Thank you.

19 BY MR. ADAM:

20 Q Kai n, can you j ust br i ef l y t el l us, when

21 you were at Nort hwest er n i n t he f oot bal l pr ogr am,

22 whet her you went t o any bowl games?

23 A Yes. We went t o a bowl game t hr ee of my

24 f our year s t her e.

25 Q So i n addi t i on t o bei ng a f oot bal l


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1 pl ayer , di d you hol d any posi t i on wi t h t he t eam i n

2 t er ms of . . .

3 A Two- t i me capt ai n i n my j uni or and seni or

4 year , al so i n t he l eader shi p counci l .

5 Q And what i s t he l eader shi p counci l ?

6 A The l eader shi p counci l i s a gr oup of

7 pl ayer s vot ed on by t hei r peer s. They r epr esent

8 al l cl asses of t he f oot bal l t eam: Freshman,

9 sophomor e, j uni or , seni or .

10 And t hey' r e basi cal l y - - t hey' r e basi cal l y

11 l i ke t he st udent counci l f or t he t eam. We get

12 t oget her and we t al k al ong wi t h Coach Fi t z - - I l i ke

13 t o i ncl ude Coach Fi t z i n t he l eader shi p counci l . And

14 we addr ess any i ssues t hat we have and di scuss, you

15 know, ever yt hi ng, r eal l y, t hat ent ai l s our f oot bal l

16 exper i ence.

17 Q So i n addi t i on t o pl ayi ng f oot bal l , i n

18 addi t i on t o gr aduat i ng and bei ng on t he l eader shi p

19 counci l , have you done anyt hi ng el se, any ot her

20 exper i ences at Nort hwest er n?

21 A Yes. You know most r ecent l y, I hel ped

22 f ound CAPA, and i t t ook a good chunk of my t i me

23 r i ght now. And you know, my number one pr i or i t y

24 r i ght now i s t o get dr af t ed i n t he NFL. I ' ve been

25 down i n Fl or i da t r ai ni ng f or t he NFL. I act ual l y


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1 l eave f or t he NFL combi ne t omor r ow i n hopes t o get

2 dr af t ed i n May.

3 Q How ol d ar e you?

4 A I ' m 21 year s ol d.

5 Q I ' d l i ke t o now t urn your at t ent i on t o

6 Nor t hwestern Uni vers i t y i t sel f .

7 Can you j ust gi ve us a gener al over vi ew, a

8 br i ef over vi ew, of what Nor t hwest er n Uni ver si t y i s?

9 A Nor t hwestern i s a pr i vat e i nst i t ut i on, a

10 pret ty prest i gi ous uni vers i t y. I t ' s l ocated i n

11 Evanston, I l l i noi s. They have, l i ke, an

12 under gr aduat e popul at i on of 8- or 9, 000.

13 Q And i n t er ms of t he academi c year , can

14 you descr i be what ki nd of academi c year i s used?

15 A They ar e on t he cor e syst em.

16 Q So what ar e t he per i ods t hat woul d be. . .

17 A I t ' s f al l , wi nter , spr i ng, and then I

18 t hi nk t her e' s an opt i onal summer, a l i t t l e bi t

19 mor e condensed.

20 Q I woul d l i ke you t o t ake a l ook at

21 Exhi bi t 13. I t ' s r ef er r ed t o as t he academi c

22 cal endar f or 2012/ 2013.

23 A Yes.

24 Q Does t hat document r ef l ect ki nd of

25 backgr ound i nf or mat i on, when cl asses st ar t , when


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1 t hey f i ni sh?

2 A Yes.

3 Q And t hi s i s t he academi c - - t hi s i s - -

4 does i t have any connect i on wi t h f oot bal l i n t er ms

5 of schedul i ng and t hi ngs?

6 A Not t hat I know of .

7 Q And i f you coul d t hen l ook at Exhi bi t 15.

8 I s t hat t he 2012 f oot bal l schedul e?

9 A Cor r ect .

10 Q I j ust happened t o pi ck 2012 j ust

11 randoml y as one of t he years. But t hat was one of

12 t he year s your t eam di d pr et t y wel l , di dn' t i t ?

13 A Cor r ect .

14 Q Al l r i ght .

15 I woul d l i ke you t o gi ve us some

16 backgr ound - - or an over vi ew on t he f oot bal l pr ogr am

17 at Nor t hwest er n.

18 A Nor t hwest er n i s an FBS D- 1 f oot bal l t eam,

19 and they compet e i n the Bi g Ten Conf erence.

20 Q And how many schol ar shi p pl ayer s are on

21 t he t eam?

22 A Roughl y ar ound 85. Somewhere ar ound 85.

23 Q And do t hey r ecei ve what was cal l ed t he

24 f ul l schol ar shi ps?

25 A Yes. One year - - I t hi nk - - bel i eve


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1 coach i s, why don' t you j ust t el l us who t he head

2 coach i s?

3 A Pat Fi t zger al d.

4 Q And about how many ot her assi st ant

5 coaches are there?

6 A Oh, man. I don' t know exact l y. I woul d

7 say somewher e ar ound 10.

8 Al so t her e' s a str engt h and condi t i oni ng

9 s taf f . I t hi nk t hey cal l t hemsel ves t he spor t s

10 per f ormance st af f .

11 And t hen t her e' s al so, you know, suppor t

12 s taf f . You know, i t ' s a bi g operat i on.

13 Q And i s i t a year - r ound oper at i on or does

14 i t onl y cer t ai n mont hs?

15 A I t ' s year r ound. I t i s a year - round gi g.

16 Q I woul d l i ke t o t urn your at t ent i on t o

17 Exhi bi t 17. I t ' s ref er r ed to as t he team

18 handbook.

19 A Okay.

20 Q And i f you coul d l ook at Bat es st amp 147,

21 whi ch i s page 9 of t he document .

22 A Yes.

23 Q That ' s j ust wher e t he coachi ng staf f i s

24 l i st ed?

25 A Cor rect .


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1 wat ch us, make sur e t hat we' r e - - our f or m i s

2 cor r ect . And t hen t hei r j ob i s basi cal l y t o keep

3 us i n shape and t hen r eady t o, you know, per f or m

4 our j ob.

5 Q And I ' d l i ke t o di r ect you t o Bat es st amp

6 170.

7 I s t hat wher e Mr . Hoot en and some of t he

8 ot her per f or mance st af f ar e l i st ed?

9 A Yes.

10 Q Can you j ust descr i be i n general where

11 f oot bal l t r ai ni ng i s conduct ed and condi t i oni ng,

12 and where games ar e pl ayed?

13 A Yes. I t ' s al l i n t hi s - - you know, I

14 don' t know what t he exact area woul d be. But

15 t her e' s Ryan Fi el d, whi ch i s t he st adi um. And our

16 l ocker r oom i s al most combi ned wi t h Ryan Fi el d,

17 al ong wi t h t he t r ai ni ng r oom wher e we r ecei ve

18 medi cal t r eat ment .

19 Ri ght across f r om t hat i s t he basket bal l

20 st adi um, and t hen t here' s ot her depar t ment s.

21 And movi ng r i ght acr oss f r om t her e i s

22 Ni col et , whi ch i s wher e al l t he f oot bal l of f i ces ar e,

23 t he wei ght r oom. Our i ndoor f i el d i s connect ed

24 t her e.

25 And t hen you wal k a l i t t l e bi t t he ot her


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1 way, you' l l r un i nt o Ander sen Hal l , whi ch i s wher e - -

2 al l t he at hl et i c depar t ment , at hl et i c/ academi c

3 advi sers, compl i ance, t hose t ypes of depar t ment s are

4 l ocat ed i n Ander sen Hal l .

5 Q And t hi s i s al l par t of - - i t woul d be

6 f ai r t o say - - t he at hl et i c depar t ment ,

7 f ootbal l - -

8 A The athl et i c depar t ment area, yes.

9 Q Al l r i ght . Now, we' r e goi ng t o t al k i n

10 some det ai l about what f oot bal l pl ayer s do. But

11 I ' d l i ke you t o j ust gi ve us some basi c concept s

12 so t hat we can underst and t hem, i n t erms of t he

13 t ype of act i vi t i es you engage i n.

14 Can you j ust descr i be some of t hem?

15 A Yeah. Obvi ousl y, I t hi nk ever ybody knows

16 about t he games. Usual l y we pl ay every Satur day.

17 Everybody knows about t he games.

18 Obvi ousl y, we pr act i ce. When I t al k about

19 pr act i ce, I ' m t al ki ng about per f or mi ng, you know,

20 f oot bal l - r el at ed t hi ngs, pads, hel met s on, usi ng t he

21 f oot bal l , doi ng dr i l l s l i ke t hat .

22 We al so have workout s, whi ch ent ai l , you

23 know, r unni ng, condi t i oni ng, l i f t i ng wei ght s, 7 on 7,

24 and ot her pl ayer - r un pr act i ces.

25 7 on 7 i s basi cal l y - - you know, i n f oot bal l


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1 bet ween pract i ce and workout ?

2 A Yes. Workout s are - - you know, what I

3 l i ke t o consi der - - l i f t i ng, r unni ng, doi ng t hat

4 sor t of t hi ng, maki ng sur e that we' r e i n shape,

5 and our bodi es ar e r eady t o per f or m our j ob.

6 Pr act i ce i s, you know, what I l i ke t o cal l

7 speci al i zi ng on our craf t , doi ng f oot bal l t hi ngs wi t h

8 a f oot bal l , hel met , pads, t hose sor t s of act i vi t i es.

9 Q And as par t of your r ol e as a f oot bal l

10 pl ayer , i s t her e a per i od of t i me wher e you t o

11 t r avel ?

12 A Absol ut el y.

13 Q And when i s t hat , general l y?

14 A We have t o t r avel t o games, usual l y. And

15 t hen most of our t r avel i s dur i ng t he season.

16 We have t o t r avel t o t r ai ni ng camp.

17 Somet i mes you mi ght have cer t ai n t hi ngs t o

18 do downtown, you t r avel downtown when you - - you

19 t r avel .

20 But most of i t i s, you know, dur i ng t he

21 season.

22 Q You woul d t r avel t ypi cal l y on a Fr i day

23 f or a Sat urday game?

24 A Cor r ect .

25 Q And t hen t r avel back t hat Sat ur day,


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1 usual l y?

2 A Ri ght af t er t he game.

3 Q I woul d l i ke t o now t ur n your at t ent i on

4 t o t he act i vi t i es t hat f oot bal l pl ayer s engage i n

5 year r ound. And i f you coul d f i r st j ust gi ve us

6 ki nd of t he br oad pi ct ur e, and t hen we' l l get i nt o

7 some det ai l s as t o what you have t o do and what

8 t he pl ayers have t o do.

9 Coul d you st ar t of f wi t h what you woul d cal l

10 t he f i r st per i od?

11 A Yeah. I l i ke t o br eak i t up i n al most

12 ei ght sect i ons.

13 Fi r st per i od woul d be t r ai ni ng camp, whi ch

14 i s real l y t he most demandi ng t i me. I f you have seen

15 NFL Har d Knocks, i t ' s f oot bal l ever y day. And i t

16 st ar t s August 1st and ends ar ound August 31st .

17 Q So t hat ' s pr et t y much - - you cal l i t t he

18 t r ai ni ng camp, and t hat ' s August ?

19 A Cor r ect .

20 Q And appr oxi mat el y how many hour s a week

21 woul d t he pl ayer s devot e t o f oot bal l ?

22 A 50 t o 60.

23 Q And t hen what ' s t he next per i od t hat you

24 woul d descr i be?

25 A Wel l , what I cal l r egul ar season, you


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1 know, f oot bal l games. So r egul ar season f oot bal l

2 games, t her e' s 12 games t hat we par t i ci pat e i n.

3 That usual l y st ar t s Sept ember 1st and ends

4 December 1st , so r i ght i n t hat t i me per i od.

5 Q And j ust dur i ng t hat per i od of t i me, how

6 many hour s woul d f oot bal l pl ayer s devot e t o

7 f oot bal l ?

8 A 40 t o 50.

9 Q And t hese hour s i ncl ude t he t i me you have

10 t o spend t r avel i ng t o t he game and comi ng back and

11 so on?

12 A Cor rect .

13 Q And t hen i f you' r e f or t unat e enough t o

14 have a post season, when does t hat begi n?

15 A December 1. And usual l y you pl ay - - t he

16 l ast t hr ee year s, we usual l y pl ay our bowl game

17 r i ght around December 31 t o J anuar y 1. So t o

18 December 31 t o J anuar y 1.

19 Q So i n t he t hr ee of t he f our year s t hat

20 you wer e on t he t eam, t he season r eal l y ext ended

21 out t o, l et ' s say, on or about J anuar y 1?

22 A Cor rect .

23 Q And dur i ng t hat mont h, woul d f oot bal l

24 pl ayer s pr act i ce and devot e t hei r t i me t o t he

25 pr ogr am?


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1 per i od where the wei ght r oom i s open, and you have

2 t he opt i on t o go i n t her e.

3 As a t eam capt ai n and as a t eam l eader and

4 l eadershi p counci l , we t r i ed t o make sure we had

5 pr et t y hi gh at t endance f or t hose di scret i onar y

6 per i ods.

7 Af t er t he di scret i onar y per i od we - -

8 Q Wel l , bef or e you go on, I ' m sor r y.

9 What - - I mean, i f you have a bowl game

10 J anuary 1, how much of a gap i s t here bef ore you have

11 t o st ar t doi ng anyt hi ng el se wi t h r espect t o

12 f oot bal l ?

13 A Li ke I sai d - - you know, say we pl ay t he

14 game J anuary 1. I t hi nk we had t o r epor t t o

15 school J anuary 7. So you had t hat week, and t hen

16 you pr obabl y had one week of a di scr et i onar y

17 per i od af t er t hat .

18 And t hen we began wi nter workout s, whi ch - -

19 t owar ds t he mi ddl e t o the end of J anuary.

20 Q So you act ual l y st ar t wi nt er wor kout s

21 somet i me around mi d J anuar y?

22 A Somewhere ar ound t here.

23 Q And how l ong does t he - - what you cal l

24 t he wi nt er wor kout s l ast ?

25 A They go unt i l , I woul d say mi d Febr uar y,


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1 and t hat ' s when we st ar t Wi nni ng Edge.

2 Q And dur i ng t he wi nt er workout t i me

3 per i od, how many hour s are f oot bal l pl ayer s

4 devot i ng t o f oot bal l ?

5 A 12 t o 15.

6 Q So t he hour s have dr opped f r om t he

7 season, obvi ousl y?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And i n gener al , j ust t el l us what i s

10 goi ng on i n t he wi nt er wor kout s. What ar e t he

11 f oot bal l pl ayer s doi ng?

12 A Li ke I sai d, wor kout s. So usual l y our

13 day i s spl i t up i nt o an hour of r unni ng, an hour

14 of l i f t i ng, conduct ed by t he st r engt h st af f .

15 And t hen, you know, we have mandat or y

16 t r ai ni ng t abl e. And t hen al so get t i ng any t r eat ment

17 t hat you needed, you know, get t i ng i n t he col d t ub,

18 maki ng sur e you' r e heal t hy, get t i ng your ankl es

19 t aped, t hi ngs l i ke t hat .

20 Q Now, you ment i oned t he t er m t r ai ni ng

21 t abl e.

22 Can you j ust t el l us, i n gener al , what does

23 t hat - - what i s t hat ?

24 A The t r ai ni ng t abl e i s - - bas i cal l y, i t ' s

25 a - - t hey pr ovi de f ood, but t hey t ake i t out of


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1 our st i pend checks ever y mont h. And i t ' s

2 mandat or y t hat we do t hat . So t hey of f er f ood i n

3 t hi s pl ace cal l ed t he N- Cl ub. And you at t end t he

4 f ood - - and you eat af t er your wor kout s.

5 Q So i t ' s connect ed t o f ood. You' r e not ,

6 l i ke, t rai ni ng at a tabl e. You' re actual l y eat i ng

7 t he f ood?

8 A Yes.

9 Q And you sai d somehow i t comes out of

10 your - - you sai d i t comes out of your st i pend or

11 somet hi ng? How i s i t pai d?

12 A Cor r ect . You don' t r ecei ve a st i pend f or

13 your f i r st t wo year s whi l e you' r e on campus. But

14 once you' r e al l owed t o l i ve of f campus t hey gi ve

15 you a per sonal check ever y mont h, somewher e

16 ar ound, l i ke, 1, 600. And t hen t hey deduct - - I

17 t hi nk i t ' s $13 a meal , somet hi ng l i ke t hat f or

18 t r ai ni ng t abl e, out of your st i pend check or

19 what ever f or t hat mont h.

20 Q Wel l , we' l l get i nt o t hat a l i t t l e bi t

21 l ater . But t he t r ai ni ng t abl e, basi cal l y i s - -

22 you sai d t hey t ake at t endance.

23 Who t akes at t endance?

24 A Wel l , i t ' s di f f erent peopl e t hr oughout .

25 But t hey have t he r ost er wi t h t he name and t hey


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1 check of f when you' r e t her e.

2 Q Wel l , I mean, t hat may not answer my

3 quest i on.

4 Was i t t he f oot bal l pr ogr am t hat - -

5 A Yes. Somebody i n t he f oot bal l

6 depar t ment . I t swi t ched. I t wasn' t t he same

7 per son every day.

8 Q And wher e ar e t hese meal s hel d?

9 A I n t hi s pl ace cal l ed t he N- Cl ub. I t ' s

10 r i ght above. . .

11 Q And t hi s i s f or t he at hl et es onl y?

12 A Yes.

13 Q Al l r i ght . So we st opped at Wi nni ng

14 Edge, and you br i ef l y ment i oned i t ear l i er .

15 J ust t el l us agai n what t hat i s.

16 A The Wi nni ng Edge, i t ' s basi cal l y t he - - a

17 week t o t r ansi t i on i nt o spr i ng f oot bal l , whi ch I

18 wi l l addr ess l at er . But i t ' s a week of , you know,

19 ki nd of al most l i ke a condi t i oni ng t est . They

20 br eak t he t eam up i nt o gr oups. They assi gn a

21 capt ai n on t he t eam, you know, a l eader on t he

22 t eam t o each gr oup.

23 Ther e' s a l ot of compet i ng, you know, r el ay

24 r aces. I t ' s ver y demandi ng. I t ' s one of t he har dest

25 wor kout s i n t he year . I t ' s usual l y l i ke f our


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1 wor kout s over a per i od of a week, and we l i f t i n

2 bet ween t he days.

3 So l et ' s say we st ar t i t on Sat ur day, you

4 know, Sunday, and t hen st ar t agai n on Monday. We

5 l i f t Tuesday, do i t agai n on Wednesday, l i f t Thur sday

6 and Fr i day.

7 And t hen af t er t hat week, we t r ansi t i on i nt o

8 spr i ng f oot bal l .

9 Q And agai n, t hi s i s somet i me around

10 Febr uar y 15?

11 A Somewhere ar ound t here.

12 Q I t i s f or about a one- week per i od?

13 A Yes.

14 Q And how many hour s do t he pl ayer s devote

15 t o t he Wi nni ng Edge?

16 A I woul d say 15 or 20.

17 Q And af t er Wi nni ng Edge, you ment i oned

18 spr i ng bal l .

19 Can you t el l us what t hat i s?

20 A Spr i ng f oot bal l ? I t ' s basi cal l y, you

21 know, j ust headi ng i nt o t r ue f oot bal l pr act i ce.

22 Li ke I sai d, agai n, you know, put t i ng on pads

23 r eal l y, you know, speci al i zi ng your craf t .

24 We have meet i ngs wher e we have t o basi cal l y

25 r e- i nst al l our of f ense and def ense, you know,


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1 t eachi ng t he young guys i n i t . I t ' s a chance f or

2 guys t o, you know, r eal l y st ep up t o our i n- dept h

3 char t s and pr ove t o t he coaches t hat t hey can pl ay.

4 I t ' s bas i cal l y j ust pract i ce and meet i ngs

5 and t hen l i f t i ng somet i mes i n bet ween pr act i ces.

6 Q So when you - - you' r e usi ng t he t er m

7 pr act i ce. That means your pads ar e on and i t ' s

8 game on. You' r e i n cont act ?

9 A At t he bar e mi ni mum we have our hel met s

10 on. But you know t hey usual l y, l i ke, ease us

11 i nt o, l i ke, a day of hel met s, t hen we go hel met s

12 and shoul der pads t hen we go f ul l pads.

13 So not ever y day i s f ul l pads. But bar e

14 mi ni mum, we have our hel met s on.

15 Q And t hi s i s f r om appr oxi mat el y t he - -

16 near t he end of Febr uar y?

17 A End of Febr uar y t o about mi d Apr i l .

18 Q And f r om t he end of Febr uar y t o mi d

19 Apr i l ?

20 A Cor rect .

21 Q And appr oxi matel y how many hour s a week

22 ar e pl ayer s devot ed t o t he f oot bal l pr ogr am dur i ng

23 t hi s per i od?

24 A 20 t o 25.

25 Q So af t er spr i ng bal l , what ' s t he next


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1 per i od of t i me when you have t o do anyt hi ng f or

2 t he f oot bal l pr ogr am?

3 A You know you mi ght have, l i ke I sai d, a

4 week or t wo of di scr et i onary, and t hen we head

5 i nt o spr i ng wor kout s, whi ch i s basi cal l y t he same

6 t hi ng as wi nt er workout s, you know, conduct ed by

7 t he st r engt h and condi t i oni ng st af f , you know,

8 l i f t i ng f our days a week.

9 And t hen t hat basi cal l y t akes us al l t he way

10 t o t he end of t he school year , whi ch i s somewhere

11 around, you know, t he end of May, begi nni ng of J une.

12 Q So you' r e back t o spr i ng wor kout s i n

13 ar ound Apr i l 20, you sai d, unt i l t he end of mi d

14 May, you sai d?

15 A The end of May, t he begi nni ng of J une, I

16 t hi nk school ends, you know, t he f i r st week of

17 J une, somewher e around t here.

18 Q You ment i oned ear l i er a r ef erence t o

19 di scret i onar y week. I s t hat a t er m t hat t he

20 pr o- - - f oot bal l pr ogr am uses?

21 A I have no i dea wher e t hey get i t . I

22 t hi nk - - you know i t mi ght be, l i ke, an NCAA

23 r equi r ement or somet hi ng l i ke t hat .

24 But t he st r engt h and condi t i oni ng st af f ,

25 t hey can' t conduct t he wor kout , t hey can' t moni t or


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1 i t . But l i ke I sai d, you know, as l eader shi p

2 counci l , you know, we st ar t - - we want t o be a gr eat

3 t eam.

4 Foot bal l gener al l y, i f you want t o be a

5 gr eat t eam you' ve got t o have gr eat at t endance,

6 you' ve got t o do t he ext r a - - you' ve got t o go t he

7 ext r a mi l e. So, you know, we want t o have gr eat

8 at t endance whi l e we' r e t her e.

9 Q And so when t he t er m di scr et i onar y i s

10 used, t hi s i s when t he pl ayer s ar e r unni ng i t , but

11 t her e' s no coach speci f i cal l y, or condi t i oni ng

12 coach pr esent ?

13 A I mean, l i ke, t hey' r e t her e. You know,

14 t he wei ght r oom l i ke a bi g r oom, and t hei r of f i ces

15 ar e r i ght t her e, so t hey' r e t her e. They' r e i n t he

16 vi ci ni t y, but t hey can' t - - t hey can' t you know,

17 say t hi s i s our wor kout f or t he day, I ' m goi ng t o

18 moni t or you t o make sure you do t hi s amount of

19 r eps and - - no.

20 Q But when you' r e doi ng t hi s, t he - - what

21 you cal l t he di scret i onar y wor kout s, i t ' s done i n

22 t he f oot bal l f aci l i t i es?

23 A Cor r ect .

24 Q And t he coachi ng st af f and ot her st af f

25 are ar ound f or t he f oot bal l pr ogr am?


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1 A Thei r of f i ces and ever yt hi ng ar e t her e.

2 They' r e ar ound.

3 Q But unl i ke t he other per i ods when you

4 ment i oned t he wi nt er workout and spr i ng workout ,

5 t hi s per i od t he st r engt h coach i sn' t act ual l y ki nd

6 of conduct i ng i t . He' s not r eal l y doi ng t hat ?

7 A Cor r ect .

8 Q But when you have t hese ot her workouts,

9 t he st r engt h and condi t i oni ng coach i s act ual l y

10 conduct i ng i t ?

11 A Yeah. I mean t hey wi l l t ake, you know - -

12 t hey t ake at t endance, basi cal l y. They have t hi s,

13 l i ke, sheet , al most l i ke, you know, ki nder gar t en,

14 you get a gol d st ar f or l i ke i f you wer e t her e, i f

15 you wer e dr essed i n t he r i ght at t i r e.

16 Li ke you coul dn' t wear a neckl ace. I f you

17 had your neckl ace you mi ght , l i ke, l ose a poi nt f or

18 t he day.

19 Your at t i t ude, your , l i ke, l eader shi p dur i ng

20 t he wor kout . They woul d, l i ke, gi ve you poi nt s f or

21 t hi s. And t hen at t he end of t he per i od t hey, l i ke,

22 l ump you i nt o cat egor i es. You do - - you got t hi s

23 many poi nt s, you' r e al l Amer i can. You gave al l

24 Amer i can ef f or t . You got t hi s many poi nt s, you' r e

25 al l Bi g Ten ef f or t . You got t hi s many poi nt s,


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1 you' r e aver age.

2 So t hat ' s ki nd of what i t was. And t hen

3 t hey di d a gr eat j ob of , you know, gi vi ng us, you

4 know, new wor kout s, maki ng sur e t hat we' r e i n shape

5 and t hi ngs l i ke t hat .

6 Q Was t hi s - - was Mr . Hoot en t he one t hat

7 was conduct i ng t hose wor kout s?

8 A The ent i r e str engt h staf f . They usual l y,

9 l i ke, wi l l break i t up i nto - - l i ke you know, a

10 cer t ai n posi t i on gr oup wi l l be moni t or ed by a

11 cer t ai n coach. So you know, maybe quar t er backs

12 and r unni ng backs ar e wi t h Coach Hoot en, wi de

13 r ecei ver s ar e wi t h Coach Sut t on. You know, t hey

14 spl i t i t amongst t he st af f .

15 Q And dur i ng t hese wor kout s, t he wi nt er

16 wor kout s and t he spr i ng wor kout s and t he Wi nni ng

17 Edge wor kout s, ar e f oot bal l s requi r ed - - ar e t he

18 pl ayer s requi r ed t o at t end t hose?

19 A The wi nt er and spr i ng wor kout s?

20 Q Yes.

21 A Yes. As f ar as I know, yes. We' r e

22 expect ed t o be t here.

23 Q And we' ve been descr i bi ng f r om August up

24 unt i l now, t he end of May, t he gener al t hi ngs t hat

25 you do.


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1 Can you t el l us t he t i me per i od, i n t er ms of

2 t he day, when t hese act i vi t i es are done?

3 A I n t he mor ni ng as ear l y as 5: 30, and

4 we' r e usual l y ther e unt i l - - you know, t hey have

5 cer t ai n gr oups t hr oughout t he day.

6 So you know maybe t here' s a gr oup t hat l i f t s

7 at 5: 30, a gr oup t hat l i f t s at 6: 30 or 7: 00, so t hey

8 spr ead out . But usual l y ever ythi ng i s done i n t he

9 mor ni ngs.

10 Q So even dur i ng t he r egul ar season - -

11 A Pr act i ce and ever ythi ng i s done i n t he

12 mor ni ngs.

13 Q Now t hi ngs l i ke t he 7 on 7, are t hose

14 done i n the morni ng?

15 A No. So 7 on 7, l i ke - - you know t hey had

16 r ul es so t he coaches can' t be t her e, so i t woul d

17 be pl ayer - r un pr act i ces.

18 So basi cal l y, you know, me bei ng t he

19 quart erback, t he l eader on t he t eam, I woul d go

20 schedul e t he i ndoor f aci l i t y.

21 And I ' d have t o go t o t he f aci l i t i es of f i ce

22 and basi cal l y r ent out t he f aci l i t y - - not pay f or i t

23 j ust , you know, ki nd of schedul e i t i n, schedul e t he

24 i ndoor .

25 And t hen I woul d, you know, t el l t he t eam,


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1 t he of f ense, you know, Hey, we got 7 on 7 at , you

2 know, 7: 00 at ni ght . Ever ybody be t here. You know,

3 we' ve got f i l m maybe an hour bef or e. So t hose ar e

4 pl ayer - r un pr act i ces.

5 And t hen t hey' d have, l i ke, a st udent - -

6 st udent t r ai ner , basi cal l y, t o make sur e nobody got

7 hur t . And i f anybody needed medi cal assi st ance, t he

8 st udent t r ai ner woul d be t her e.

9 Q We' l l get i nt o t hat i n a l i t t l e bi t mor e

10 det ai l l at er on.

11 But I woul d l i ke t o now know go - - you

12 f i ni shed t he spr i ng wor kout s, whi ch I t hi nk you sai d

13 was t i l l t he end of May usual l y?

14 A Yes.

15 Q And t hen when i s t he next per i od of - -

16 wher e t he f oot bal l pl ayer s do act i vi t i es?

17 A Yes. So we usual l y - - so l i ke at

18 Nor t hwest ern, you have your cl asses and t hen

19 you' l l have, l i ke, f i nal s week or r eadi ng week.

20 And t hat ' s usual l y unt i l l i ke, I don' t know,

21 J une 7, J une 8, and t hen school woul d be over . So

22 al l t he st udent s woul d go home.

23 Then we' d go home f or maybe a week or t wo,

24 and then we woul d pr obabl y have t o r epor t J une 20t h

25 f or summer workout s. So we' d r epor t t hen, and t hat ' s


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1 when summer wor kout s begi n.

2 Usual l y t he new i ncomi ng f r eshmen woul d

3 st ar t school ear l y. They' d come i n J une and t ake

4 cl asses and, you know, do our f oot bal l dut i es.

5 Q So t he summer wor kout s begi n ar ound - -

6 l et ' s say ar ound J une 20t h, and when do t hey

7 end?

8 A August 1st , bas i cal l y headi ng i nt o

9 camp, t rai ni ng camp, l i ke I sai d.

10 Q So you f i ni sh t he summer and you go r i ght

11 i nt o August al l over agai n?

12 A Yeah. We - - yeah.

13 Q So when you wer e t her e, di d you do t he

14 summer of 2010?

15 A Cor rect .

16 Q So t hat ' s when you had j ust gr aduat ed

17 f r om hi gh school , you di d t he summer wor kout s?

18 A Cor rect .

19 Q So you di d i t each of t he f ol l owi ng

20 summers?

21 A Yes. Ever ybody does i t .

22 Q When you say ever ybody, what do you mean?

23 A I bel i eve ever ybody - - I mean over my

24 t i me t her e I can r emember one guy t hat , l i ke,

25 st ayed home dur i ng t he summer . Ever ybody i s


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1 t her e. We' r e expect ed t o be t her e.

2 Q And how many hours do f oot bal l pl ayer s

3 gener al l y devot e t o f oot bal l dur i ng t he summer

4 workout per i od?

5 A 20 t o 25.

6 Q And i n t hi s per i od, i n addi t i on t o t he

7 wor ki ng out and t he - - i s t hi s when you al so do 7

8 on 7s?

9 A Cor r ect .

10 Q So when you i ncl ude t he 20 t o 25 hours,

11 you' r e i ncl udi ng t he 7 on 7?

12 A Cor r ect . And t hen, you know, we have t he

13 new f r eshmen comi ng i n. And as l eaders - - you

14 know as l eader s on t he t eam, i t ' s our r ol e t o get

15 t hem pr epar ed.

16 So we have t o t each t hem t he of f ense. So

17 we' l l do, l i ke, an hour ' s wor t h of f i l m bef or e t he 7

18 on 7. So. . .

19 Q Now, I woul d l i ke t o t ur n your

20 at t ent i on - - we' l l go i nt o a l i t t l e mor e speci f i c

21 det ai l - - t o Exhi bi t 18.

22 And when do t he Bat es st amps st ar t on t hat ?

23 At t he bot t om, what i s i t ?

24 A Bat es 1217.

25 Q Can you j ust descr i be, i n gener al , what


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1 Exhi bi t 18 i s? I know t her e' s, l i ke, 300 pages,

2 so I j ust want a general descr i pt i on.

3 A Yeah. I t ' s basi cal l y al l the cal endars

4 and schedul es t hat we get t hr oughout t he year t hat

5 out l i ne and basi cal l y go over our dut i es f or t hat

6 week, t hat day, t hat mont h.

7 Q And t hese ar e Nor t hwest er n document s?

8 A Cor r ect .

9 Q So t hese ar e document s t hat you woul d get

10 dur i ng t he - - not al l of t hem, but a l ot of t hem

11 you woul d get dur i ng t he cour se of t he year ?

nlrb | in re northwestern university and capa | transcript 2/18/2014

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