ms swarandeep birdi v (1) specsavers optical group limited (2)...

Ms Swarandeep Birdi v (1) Specsavers Optical Group Limited (2) Mr Kamaljit Singh (3) Dartford Visionplus Limited (4) Dartford

Specsavers Limited

Day 8

November 3, 2014

Opus 2 International - Official Court Reporters

Phone: +44 (0)20 3008 5900Email: [email protected]: http://www.opus2.com

November 3, 2014 Day 8

Official Court Reporters +44 (0)20 3008 5900Opus 2 International [email protected]

1

1 Monday,3November2014

2 (10.30am)

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,goodmorning,MrStuart.

4 MRSTUART:Goodmorning,myLord.YourLordshipmayhave

5 seen,Ihavejusthandedup‐‐

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Aproposedrevisedtimetable.

7 MRSTUART:Aproposedrevisedtimetable.Thereisjustone

8 issuethatIjustneedtobottomout,whichisthat

9 MrRehman,MsBirdi'shusband‐‐

10 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.

11 MRSTUART:WehaveputhiminlastthingonFridaybecause,

12 asMrPottssaidtome,itseemedsillytocomebackon

13 Mondayforhim,becausethathadbeenwherewehadput

14 him,becausemyinstructionshadbeenthatMrRehmanis

15 notavailablethisweek.

16 IhavecheckedwithMsBirdithismorningandsheis

17 surethathewon'tbeabletobehereonFridaybecause

18 heislecturingthatday.Sohecan't,asitwere,get

19 asubstitutein.Butitmaybethatwecangetsome

20 availabilityforhimonThursdayorevenlateon

21 Wednesdayorsomething,soifweneedtoslothimin,we

22 aregoingtotryandslothimin‐‐

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Heisnotgoingtobeverylong.

24 MRSTUART:Heisnot.

25 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andhecanbeslottedinwhenit'smost

2

1 appropriate.

2 MRSTUART:Yes.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyou.

4 MRPOTTS:MyLord,youwillseesomeproposalsinrelation

5 toclosing‐‐subjectofcourse,toyourLordship.We

6 haveputinsomeslightlyrevisedproposalsonthe

7 assumptionthattheevidencefinishesonFriday.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Fridaythisweek?

9 MRPOTTS:Yes,thatMondaywouldbespentpreparingsome

10 writtenclosingsubmissions.Thosewouldbeexchanged

11 at10aminthemorningonTuesday.YourLordshipwould

12 thenhavethedaytoreadthose.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andadayfororalsubmissions.

14 MRPOTTS:Thenaday,effectivelyhalfadayeach,onthe

15 Wednesday,sowewouldcompletewithinour15‐day

16 allocatedtime.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,thatseemsreasonablysensible.

18 Thisisquiteafact‐heavycase.

19 MRPOTTS:Itis.

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Anditmaybethat,whenwecometo

21 closingsubmissions,youmightwantmorethanhalfaday

22 each.AsfarasI'mconcerned,ifitgoesoverfor

23 anotherday,itdoesn'tcausemepersonallyany

24 inconvenience.Youmightwanttothinkaboutthat.

25 MRPOTTS:Ithink,myLord,it'sasortoftoss‐upbetween

3

1 howmuchtimeforwritten,asopposedtooral‐‐

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:IfwefinishbyFriday,youluckypeople

3 aregoingtohavethewholeweekendaswellasMonday

4 andMondaynight,ifnecessary.

5 MRPOTTS:Indeed.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Iagreethatit'shelpful,inacase

7 wherethereisalotofdetail,toputthingsdownin

8 writingbecausethenthereisaclearrecordofthem,

9 butIdofindithelpfultohavequitefulloral

10 arguments.

11 MRPOTTS:That'shelpful.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Becausethereisalotoffactual

13 dispute.Thereisalso,Ithink,goingtobesome

14 disputeaboutthelawaswell,andIwillbenefitfrom

15 oralargument.

16 MRPOTTS:Yes.

17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart.

18 MRDEREKDYSON(continued)

19 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART(continued)

20 MRSTUART:Goodmorning,MrDyson.

21 A.Goodmorning.

22 Q.Couldyouhaveyourwitnessstatementbundle,sothat's

23 C.CouldyoualsohaveE2andcouldyoualsobegiven

24 thetranscriptbundlejustforFriday,justfor

25 MrDyson'sownevidenceonFriday.Ithinkthat's

4

1 day7,iftheyareintabs.

2 So,MrDyson,justbeforeImoveontothenextpart

3 ofyourwitnessstatement,andIthinkwehavegotupto

4 aroundaboutparagraph65,butjustbeforeImoveonto

5 66,Ijustdoneedtogooverwithyouoncemoreone

6 pointwhichyouwereadamantaboutonFriday,andIjust

7 needtogiveyouanopportunitytocommentonitone

8 lasttime.

9 Ifyougotoyourtranscriptbundle‐‐doyou

10 rememberthepaginationisfourpagestothepage?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Ifyoustartonpage99,line13,{Day7/99:13}the

13 thornyissueofwhetheritwastheplan,asIwas

14 suggestingtoyou,andthattheplan,before

15 MrMcAlindonwenttothestoreon20February,involved

16 youbuyingMrPatel'ssharesoffhimandfixingaprice,

17 andMrRyan'sdepartmentfixingthatpricebeforethe

18 20th,orwhetheritalloccurred,asyouassertedon

19 Friday,afterMrMcAlindontelephonedyou.Doyou

20 rememberthatissue?

21 A.Ido.

22 Q.Andifyouwilljustlookat‐‐I'mnotgoingtoread

23 themoutthistime,butifyoujustlookatpage99,

24 lines13to20?{Day7/99:13}

25 A.Yes.



5

1 Q.Andthenoverthepage,page101,lines4to8.

2 {Day7/101:4}(Pause)

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.Andthenpage102,lines3to16.{Day7/102:3}(Pause)

5 Andespeciallylines10to13ofthatchunk?

6 {Day7/102:10}

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.Thenpage103,lines22to25.{Day7/103:22}(Pause)

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Andcarryingontopage104,lines1to3.{Day7/104:1}

11 (Pause)

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Ithinkthatwillprobablydoit.Soyourecallyour

14 evidence,veryclearevidence?

15 A.Ido.

16 Q.Thatthesequencewasthattherewasnoplanatallto

17 buyMrPatel'sshares,valuethoseshares,until

18 20FebruarywhenMrMcAlindonwenttothestoreand,

19 uponMrPateladmittingthings,MrMcAlindonphonedyou;

20 youthensetintrainMrRyanand/orhisdepartment

21 valuingthoseshares?

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.AndIsuggestedtoyouthatitmightperhapshavebeen

24 doneontheFridaybefore,the16th,andyousaid,

25 "Absolutelynot"?

6

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Wouldyoujusttakealookatthisdocument.Justone

3 sheetofpaper.MyLord,thereisacopyforyouthere.

4 (Handed)

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Canwedecide‐‐thereareanumberof

6 loosebitsofpaper.

7 MRSTUART:Yes.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andatsomestage,notnecessarilynow,

9 decidewhereyouputthem.Maybeattheendoftheday.

10 MRSTUART:MyLord,thisoneI'mhappytoputinsomewhere

11 becauseithasn'tmadeitswayintothetrialbundlebut

12 itis,asyouwillseefromthebottomright‐hand

13 corner‐‐

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:It'sadiscloseddocument.

15 MRSTUART:‐‐it'saSpecsavers'‐‐therespondent's

16 discloseddocument.


18 MRSTUART:Andit'sdated,justinthebottomline,sowe

19 knowwherewecanputit,whichisinbundleE2at

20 page275A.

21 Doyourecall,MrDyson‐‐ifyouwouldhave

22 page275openaswellinE2.DoyourememberIasked

23 youaboutthis,page275inE2?{E/34/275}Theemail

24 toyourassistant,EmmaMeagher,fromMrMcAlindonat

25 7.40inthemorningofFriday16February?Doyou

7

1 recall:2 "CouldyouaskDerektogivemeacallreDartford3 thismorning...needtohaveachatwithhimonhowhe4 wantsustodealwiththisincaseitdoesnotgoto5 plan."6 Doyouseethat?7 A.Yes.8 Q."IwillbespeakingtoCristinafirstthingaswellto9 getpapersdrawn..."

10 Doyouseethat:11 "...forsuspension,righttoinvestigate,etcetera12 butwanttoknowifDerekispreparedtogothewhole13 hog..."14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Ido.16 Q.ThedocumentIhavejustpassedyouispartofyour17 disclosure.It'soneofSpecsavers'owninternal18 documents.Doyouseeit?19 A.Ido.20 Q.It'sdated16December2007;that'stheFriday.Doyou21 seethat?Rightatthebottom?22 A.Yes.23 Q.Andit'spreparedbyaMrSteveGlass,who,accordingto24 theagreedlistofcharacters‐‐page5foryour25 Lordship'sreference‐‐page5oftheagreedlistof

8

1 characters,seconditem,SteveGlass.Heisinthe2 businesstransferteam,soheworksforMrRyan,doesn't3 he?4 A.Correct.5 Q.DoyouknowMrGlass?6 A.Ido.7 Q.DoesheworkinGuernsey?8 A.Hedoes.9 Q.Yes.Ifweseethis,itsays:

10 "DividendDartfordSpecsaversLimited."11 Doyouseethat,atthetop?12 A.Yes.13 Q.Butactuallywhenonereadsdown‐‐andI'llgiveyou14 achancetogothroughit‐‐it'sactuallyavaluation15 exercise.Doyouseetheword:16 "Valuationbaseduponpastprofitsassuming17 purchaserisnotabonafideemployeeandassuchthat18 futuredistributionsofprofitsforthepurposeof19 supportingborrowingcanonlybepaidbydividend."20 Doyouseethat?21 A.No,Idon'tknowweareyouarelookingat,MrStuart.22 Q.Rightatthetopofthepageunder,"DividendDartford23 Specsavers",itsays:24 "Valuationbaseduponpastprofits..."25 A.Gotit;Ihaveitnow.



9

1 Q.Sothisisavaluationexercisebeingdonebysomebody

2 inthebusinesstransferdepartmenton16Februaryand

3 it'svaluingMrPatel's50percentshareholding.

4 Letmetakethroughit.Wehavegotthethree

5 years'worthofaccountinginformation;doyousee?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.YearstoSeptember2006,September2005and

8 September2004.Wehavegotthesalesandtheprofit.

9 Thenthewayhedoesisittoaddbackinthedirectors'

10 remunerationaspertheaccounts.Ofcourse,that

11 includesbothbonusesandotherremuneration,doesn't

12 it?

13 A.Itdoes.

14 Q.Andthendeductthenormalemoluments,salary,sothe

15 basicsalary,£72,500.That'sforthetwoofthem.Do

16 youseethat?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Andthatthengiveshimasortofnetprofitfigurefor

19 eachyear.Doyouseethose?44,91and178inreverse

20 order?

21 A.Yes.

22 Q.Thenthereistheweighting,whichyoudescribedtohis

23 Lordshipwhenheaskedyouaboutwhetheryouunderstand

24 howitwasdone,andyoudescribedtheweighting.It

25 lookslikeit'sweightedtimesthreefortheimmediate

10

1 year,timestwofortheyearbefore,andtimesonefor

2 theearliestyear.Doyouseethat?

3 A.Ido.

4 Q.Andthenthosethreefiguresareaddedtogetherandthen

5 dividedbysix.Soyougetaweightedaverageofthe

6 lastthreeyears'profits.Doyouseethat?

7 A.Ido.

8 Q.Sothatseemstotieinwithwhatyoudescribedtohis

9 LordshipasbeingtheexercisethatMrRyanandhisteam

10 woulddo,whenyouwentintohisofficeonthe20thand

11 said,"Mike,weneedavaluationonDartford".

12 Andthenitsays:

13 "2006figuresareannualisedmanagementaccounts

14 from..."

15 Ithinkthatsays"PL",profitandlossor

16 something.Wouldthatberight?IsupposeIoughtto

17 haveaskedyou.

18 A.Ithinkthatsays,"period12".

19 Q."Period12".I'mwrongandyouareright.Ishould

20 haveaskedyou:doyourecognisethewriting,"P12",and

21 the80Kandthe125K?

22 A.No.

23 Q.Youdonotrecognisethat?

24 A.No.

25 Q.Okay.Sothenwehaveavaluationrangebetweentwoand

11

1 threetimesforapracticeofthisageandmaturity.So

2 theprofits,theweightedaverageprofitsof82,are

3 thenmultipliedby2,2.5or3.SoIthinkthatagain

4 chimeswithwhatyoutoldhisLordshipwouldbethe

5 methodologyforvaluingtheAshares?

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.Whenyouarebuyingthemfromthepurchaser,oryouare

8 sellingthemtosomebodyelse.

9 Thenitsays:

10 "Salessharesasapercentageoftotal

11 Ashareholding,50percent."

12 Soobviously,inthiscaseMrPatelhad50percent

13 oftheAshares?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Andsosuggesting:

16 "Thesaleshares..."

17 That'sobviouslyasaleoftheshares,MrPatel's

18 shares:

19 "...wouldbeworth..."

20 Andthenwehavegotthreefiguresdependingupon

21 themultiplier.Whetherit's2,2.5or3,theshares

22 areeitherworth82‐and‐a‐bit,or103,or£123,500.Do

23 yousee?

24 A.Ido.

25 Q.SogettingMrPatel'ssalesharesfor£55,000,asper

12

1 thesharesaleagreementthatMsdelGraziahaddrafted,

2 thatwouldfallwithinafiguresignificantlylowerthan

3 thebusinesstransferdepartment'svaluationofthose

4 sharesontheFriday,oneworkingdaybefore

5 MrMcAlindongoestoseeMrPatel?

6 A.Ido.

7 Q.Sothat'stheshares,andthenthereiswhatlookstome

8 likeacalculationofterminaldividend.

9 Doyouwanttojusthavealookatthatnextchunk

10 whichstarts:

11 "Assumingtheaverageprofitremainsatcurrent

12 year'slevelfortheforeseeablefuture..."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Ido.

15 Q.Andthenitseemstobethatacalculationisdone,

16 nettingdownthedividend,whichthenequatesto

17 amonthlyrepaymentoverfiveyearsof£974.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,itdoesn'tappeartomethat

19 it'sacalculationofterminaldividend.Whatitsays

20 it'sacalculationofisthemaximumcapitalvalueof

21 theloan,whichisaratherdifferentthing.

22 MRSTUART:Yes,butthereisa‐‐yes.

23 Theloanisnotthedirectors'loanthat'ssitting

24 intheaccountsofthecompanyatthattime,isit,

25 MrDyson?



13

1 A.Ihavenoidea.

2 Q.Thisis‐‐itsays:

3 "Profitsattributabletopurchaser's

4 Ashareholding."

5 Andwecanseethatthefigureis£22,252.Doyou

6 see?

7 A.Ido.

8 Q.Whichisexactly50percentofthefigureunder

9 managementaccounts,theprofitfigure,of£44,504.So

10 £44,504aretheprofits,theaccruedprofits?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Doyousee?Andexactly50percentofthatis£22,252.

13 Sothisappearstobeacalculationinrelationtothe

14 profitsfortheyear,doesn'tit?

15 A.Itwouldappearso.

16 Q.Andthatshareoftheprofitsthatisattributableto

17 MrPatel'sAshareholdingis50percent.Heis

18 entitledto50percentofthatprofit.That'sright,

19 isn'tit?

20 A.Correct.

21 Q.Andthenwhatthefiguresseemtoshowisthatthetax

22 hasbeendeductedfromthat.Doyousee?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.£6,675deemedtaxhasbeendeductedfromthattoproduce

25 anetdividend‐‐Ithinkthat'swhyIusedthe

14

1 "dividend"word,whichhisLordshiphaspickedup.It

2 seemstometobeacalculationofanetdividend,which

3 isthentoberepayableoveraperiodoftime.Doyou

4 seethat?

5 A.Ido.

6 Q.Isthatafairsummaryofit,thatchunk?

7 A.Yes,itlookslikethat.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:CanIaskyou,MrDyson,doyourecognise

9 acalculationofthistype?

10 A.No.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andwhyit'sdone?

12 A.No.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:No.Soyouarelookingatthisdocument,

14 tryingtomakesenseofit.Youarenotdrawingonyour

15 knowledgeofwhatthistypeofcalculationisdonefor

16 orhowit'sdone?

17 A.No,Ihavenoknowledgeofit.


19 MRSTUART:WearenotgoingtohearfromMrRyanor

20 MrGlassinthiscase,arewe,MrDyson?

21 A.No.

22 Q.Oranybodyelsefromthebusinesstransferteamwhowere

23 involvedinvaluingtheseshares?

24 A.No.MrRyannolongerworksforthecompany.

25 Q.Yes.

15

1 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,letmemakeitclearIhaveno

2 objectiontoyouaskingquestionsastowhathecan

3 derivefromadocument,butthereisadifference

4 betweenderivingsomethingfromadocumentandderiving

5 itfromyourexperience.

6 MRSTUART:Iunderstand,myLord;Idounderstand.

7 SoMrDyson,I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatinthe

8 lightofthatdocument‐‐andit'sdated16February

9 2007;doyousee?

10 A.Ido.

11 Q.PreparedbythebusinesstransferteamonthatFriday,

12 coincidentallythesamedaythatMrMcAlindonhas

13 emailedyouat7.42inthemorningaskingtocatchup

14 thatdaytodiscusstheplan;yes?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatyourevidencethatyou

17 gaveonFriday,whereyouwereabsolutelyadamantonthe

18 fiveoccasionsIhaveshownyoufromthetranscriptthat

19 therewasnoplantoconsiderbuyingMrPatel'sshares

20 ortovaluethosesharesuntilafterMrMcAlindonhad

21 telephonedyouonthe20th‐‐I'mgoingtosuggestto

22 youthatthatevidenceisnotcorrect?

23 A.Myevidenceistrue.

24 Q.Doyouhaveanyexplanationastowhy‐‐

25 A.Ihaveneverseenthisbefore.Ihavegotno

16

1 explanationforitatall,no.2 Q.Evenlookingatthisdocumentnow,youdon'twishto3 amendyourevidence?4 A.Idon't,no.5 Q.Right.Let'smoveon.6 AsIsay,Ithinkwehavegottoparagraph65of7 yourfirstwitnessstatement.{C/9/103}Canwepickup8 thestoryatparagraph66,whereyoustartnowdealing9 withthedisciplinaryprocesswhichwastobeconducted

10 byMrRaines.Doyouseethat?11 A.Ido.12 Q.CanIjustaskyou:doesMrRainesreporttoyou?13 A.Hedoes,yes.14 Q.HeisthedirectorofretailoperationsatSOS,asyou15 say?16 A.Right.17 Q.That'swhatyousayinparagraph66?18 A.Yes.19 Q.CouldyoujustexplaintohisLordshipthedifference,20 forthesepurposes,betweenSOSandSOG?21 A.SOSisSpecsaversOpticalGroupbasedinGuernseyand22 MarkRainesworksforSpecsaversOpticalSuperstores,23 whichisourUKbusinessthatprovidestheservicesand24 supporttothestores.25 Q.Ithink,justforthesakeoftherecord,Ithinkyou



17

1 justmadeaninnocenterror.YoumeantSOGis2 SpecsaversOpticalGroup,basedinGuernsey.3 A.Yes.4 Q.AndSOS?5 A.IsSpecsaversOpticalSuperstores.6 Q.WhichisaUKcompany?7 A.WhichisaUKcompany.8 Q.WhoownsSOS?9 A.SOG.

10 Q.Right.Soit'saUKsubsidiary,ifyoulike?11 A.Correct.12 Q.Thedisciplinaryprocess,yousay,wasconductedby13 MrRainesandyousayyouhadnoinputinMrRaines's14 decision‐making?15 A.That'scorrect.16 Q.WhochoseMrRaines?17 A.Ihavegotnoidea.Iwasn'tinvolvedinthat18 decision‐makingprocess.19 Q.Right.ButIthoughtyouandonlyyouweretheperson,20 thenaturalperson,whowasmakingthedecisiontogo21 throughthedisciplinaryprocess?22 A.Ihadinstructedpeopletocarryouttheinvestigation23 andareportobviouslywasproduced,andLegalwould24 havecontactedMrRainesandaskedhimtocarryoutthe25 disciplinaryprocess.

18

1 Q.Yes.Butmypoint:whyMrRaines?

2 A.Becauseheisthemostseniorpersonbelowmeandwould

3 bethenaturalperson,Iwouldhavethought,ofchoice.

4 Q.Okay.WehaveobviouslymovedfromMrMcAlindondoing

5 hisinvestigation;yes?

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.ToMrRainesdoingthedisciplinarypartoftheprocess?

8 A.IthinkitwasMrMcAlindonandMrNeilHamiltonwho

9 wereinvolvedintheinvestigation.

10 Q.Yes.Buttakingthestepfrominvestigation,McAlindon

11 andHamilton,todisciplinary,that'sobviouslyan

12 importantstep,isn'tit?

13 A.Itis,yes.

14 Q.Whodoyousaytookthatdecision?

15 A.Idon'tactuallyknowbut‐‐ifIsaidit,Iwouldjust

16 beguessing.

17 Q.Okay.

18 A.Butcertainlythelegalteamwouldhavebeeninvolvedin

19 thatselectionprocess.

20 Q.Right.Ifwegototheactualdocumentsatthis

21 point‐‐thisisE2/393.{E/77/393}

22 A.393?

23 Q.393.ThisisApril2007.DoyourememberMsBirdihad

24 complainedaboutMrMcAlindonbeinginvolved?

25 A.Sorry‐‐

19

1 Q.DoyourememberMsBirdihadcomplainedabout2 MrMcAlindon'sinvolvementandbullying/intimidation.3 Doyouremember?Wesawthatlastweek.4 A.Idon'trememberthat.Irememberthatwediscussed5 thattherewasagrievanceraisedbyMsBirdi.6 Q.Yes.AboutMrMcAlindon?7 A.Correct.8 Q.Okay.That'sfine.Soyouunderstandthecontextof9 thisletterandyouwillseeinthethirdparagraph:

10 "IntheDartfordsituation,theinvestigationis11 carriedoutthroughthespecialisedservicesofthe12 SpecsaversLossPrevention&Auditdepartment."13 A.Correct.14 Q."If,onreceiptoftheinvestigationreport(andwithout15 prejudgingtheresultsofthecurrentongoing16 investigationatDartfordorassumingthatany17 disciplinaryactionwillactuallybenecessary),itis18 consideredthatthereisacasetoanswer,thenyouwill19 beinvitedformallyforadisciplinaryhearing."20 Doyouseethat?21 A.Ido.22 Q.ThatseemstobethethoughtprocessofSOG.Andthen23 atthebottomofthatpage:24 "Wenotethatyouhavemadeaformalcomplaint25 regardingMrMcAlindon'sconduct..."

20

1 Doyouseethat?

2 A.Correct.

3 Q.Overthepage:{E/77/394}

4 "Allcomplaintsofthisnaturearetakenvery

5 seriouslyandwehavequestionedbothMrMcAlindonand

6 MrBarnesastotheeventsofthatday."

7 Doyouseethat?

8 A.Ido.

9 Q.ThisisthedaywhenMsBirdiwassuspended,27March,

10 okay?

11 A.Okay.

12 Q.WhichisthedaywhenMrsFrondigounsaysthat

13 MrMcAlindonwasthere,intimidatingMsBirdi.

14 A.That'sherevidence,yes.

15 Q.So:

16 "Allcomplaintsofthisnaturearetakenvery

17 seriouslyandwehavequestionedbothMrMcAlindonand

18 MrBarnesastotheeventsofthatday."

19 Whois"we"?

20 A.IunderstandthatMrClarkwasthegentlemanwhodidthe

21 investigation.

22 Q.Okay:

23 "Wearesatisfiedthatnoinappropriatebehaviouron

24 theirparttookplace."

25 Whoisthe"we"?IsthatMrClarkalso?



21

1 A.MrClarkwouldonlypresenthisfindings.

2 AlisonAndersonistheauthorisedsignatoryfor

3 SpecsaversOpticalGroup,soIassumethatsheissaying

4 "we"isSpecsaversOpticalGroup.

5 Q.WhoisthedirectoratSpecsaversOpticalGroup,whois

6 takingthatdecision?Isthatyou?

7 A.Ihavegotnorecollectionofit.Itcouldhavebeenme

8 butIhavenorecollection.

9 Q.Okay.Couldyouthinkofanyoneelseitmighthavebeen

10 apartfromyou?

11 A.Itdoesn'tspringtomind,MrStuart.

12 Q.Okay.Thenthenextparagraphistheresponsetothe

13 complaint,ifyoulike.Itsays:

14 "Notwithstandingtheabove,itwouldbeimpractical

15 andunrealisticatthisstageoftheprocessfor

16 MrMcAlindonnottocontinuewiththeremainingpartof

17 theinvestigation..."

18 SoSOGhasdecidedthatMrMcAlindonisgoingto

19 continuetocarryouttheinvestigation;doyousee

20 that?

21 A.Ido.

22 Q."However,toshowrespectforyourfeelingsand

23 comments,MrMcAlindonhasagreedtobeaccompaniedby

24 aseniorpersonappointedbythisofficetoactasan

25 independentobserverattheinvestigatoryinterview."

22

1 Doyouseethat?

2 A.Ido.

3 Q.Wereyouinvolvedinthatdecisionatall?

4 A.Ihavegotnorecollectionatallofanyofthis.

5 Q.Doyouknowwhotheseniorobserverwas?

6 A.Idon't,no.

7 Q.Allright.Ifyoujustgobacktoyourwitness

8 statementthen,66.Yousaythatyouhadnoinputinto

9 MrRaines'sdisciplinaryprocess.{C/9/103}Isthat

10 right?

11 A.Absolutelynot.

12 Q.Justtobeclear,didyouhaveinputintoappointing

13 MrRaines‐‐inputintoappointingMrRaines,ornot?

14 A.Idon'tremember,butImayhavedone.

15 Q.Okay.Wedon'tseemtohaveanydocumentsshowingyour

16 input,anymeetingornotesofatelephonecallor

17 aconversationoranything.Isthatright?

18 A.That'scorrect.

19 Q.Okay.Bythistime,haveyoutakenoverday‐to‐day

20 managementofthestore?

21 A.Whenyousay"bythistime",MrStuart,canyougiveme

22 apoint‐‐

23 Q.SoApril2007.MsBirdiwassuspendedon27March2007?

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.MrPatelhadobviouslyleftinFebruary.

23

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Sobythistime,April2007,haveyoutakenover

3 day‐to‐daycontrol?

4 A.Yes,wemusthavedone.

5 Q.Yes.AreyoudoingthatasAshareholderbecauseyou

6 ownMrPatel'sAshares,orareyoudoingthatas

7 Bshareholder,becausethereareno

8 Ashareholders/Adirectorsavailable?

9 A.Myrecollectionatthetimeisbecausewewere

10 Ashareholder.

11 Q.Okay.Totheextentthatallthatthenhappens‐‐and

12 wearecomingtoitnow,"Emergencymanagementcover"

13 onwardsinyourstatement‐‐aremattersofday‐to‐day

14 managementofthestore,wasthereanyreasonwhyyou

15 wouldn'tinvolveMsBirdi,atleastinjoiningyouasan

16 Adirector?

17 A.MsBirdiwassuspended.

18 Q.Fromheremploymentonly?

19 A.ButIalsowouldunderstandfromthatshewassuspended

20 fromherdutiesasanAdirectoruntiltheinvestigation

21 wascompleted.

22 Q.Okay.Oneofthethingsthatseemstohappenatthis

23 stage,soMay2007,isobviouslythatMrMcAlindonis

24 sentintopursuefurtherinvestigationswithtwo

25 membersofstaff,LorraineFrondigounand

24

1 PatriceO'Brien.WefindthatatE2,page418,1May,2 theinterviews.{E/86/418}Thefirstiswith3 LorraineFrondigoun,418andthenPatriceO'Brienis4 426.{E/86/426}Doyouseethat?5 A.Ido.6 Q.DidyouhaveanyinputyourselfastheAdirectoror7 controllingAdirector‐‐youareSOG,aren'tyou?You8 arethedirectorofSOGwhoisconductingthe‐‐9 A.Investigation.

10 Q.Didyouhaveanypersonalinputintosending11 MrMcAlindoninon1Maytogettheseinterviews?12 A.Whenyousay"personal",whatdoesthatmean?13 Q.DidyouspeaktoMrMcAlindonandhesaidtoyou,14 "Right,Iwanttotryandgetsomeevidenceagainst15 MsBirdi;I'mgoingtogoinandspeaktotwomembersof16 staff"?17 A.No.18 Q.Didyouknowhewasgoinginon1May?19 A.Notparticularly,no,butIknewthatMrMcAlindonwas20 goingtobecarryingoutaninvestigation.21 Q.Yes.Underwhatauthoritywashecarryingoutthat22 investigationbythispoint,1May2007?23 A.HewasundertheauthorityofSOG,whois24 aBshareholderandentitledtocarryoutthe25 investigationintoseriousmatters.



25

1 Q.Fromyouranswer,doIgatherthatyouaresuggesting

2 thattheauthoritycomesthroughtheBshareholding;

3 becauseyouareaBshareholderandaBdirector,you

4 cansendhimin?

5 A.Wecan‐‐withthepowersthatwehaveunderthe

6 Bshareholding,weareentitled,whenitisofaserious

7 nature,tocarryoutaninvestigation.

8 Q.Okay.Doyousaythat'sintheshareholderagreement?

9 Becauseintheshareholderagreement,everythingother

10 thantheday‐to‐daymanagement,whichgoestothe

11 Adirectors,andthefinancialpayments,whichgoesto

12 theBshareholders‐‐everythingelseisnotday‐to‐day

13 managementandhastobethesubjectofadulyconvened

14 boardmeeting.Doyouremember?

15 A.Butthisisanemergencyandwehave‐‐myunderstanding

16 oftherightsastheBshareholder‐‐tocarryoutan

17 investigationwhenthereisathreattothebusiness,

18 threattoprofitabilityandjust,youknow,thingsthat

19 areveryserious.

20 Q.Thereisnoemergencyby1May,isthere?MsBirdihas

21 beensuspendedon27March.Sheisoutofthestore.

22 Onyourversionofevents,shecan'tdoinganythingat

23 all.Sowhat'stheemergency?

24 A.I'mslightlyconfused,MrStuart,asto‐‐couldyou

25 repeattheoriginalquestionbecausemyunderstanding

26

1 wasthatthisinvestigationiscontinuingthroughout

2 alongperiodoftimethathasbeengoingon.

3 Q.It'snolongeranemergencythen,isit?Ifit'sgoing

4 onoveralongperiodoftime,it'snotanemergency?

5 A.What'snotanemergency?

6 Q.Thestepsbeingtakenatthispointintime.

7 A.No,it'sdueprocessnow.

8 Q.Right.Butthedueprocessundertheshareholders'

9 agreementrequiresyoutocalladulyconvenedboard

10 meetingtoauthorisematterssuchasthis,whichare

11 outsideday‐to‐daymanagementmatters.

12 A.Iunderstandthat.

13 Q.Andyoucouldhavecalledaboardmeeting?

14 A.Wecouldhavedone,butwedidn't.

15 Q.Yes.Why?

16 A.I'mnotsureIknowtheanswertothatquestion.What

17 Idoknowisitwaswithinourgifttorectifythat

18 positionatalatertimebyratifyingtheactionswe

19 tookthroughaboardmeeting,ofwhichwewouldhave

20 beenchairmanandwewouldhavehadcastingvote.

21 Q.Butyoudon'tknowwhatbreachesoffiduciarydutyyou

22 mighthavecommittedtoallegedlyratify?

23 A.Well,wewillknowattheendoftheinvestigation.

24 Q.Okay.Thenextissuethatarisesissalaryreviews,

25 becauseMrMcAlindonsaysthatafterhespoketothetwo

27

1 staff,theissueoftheirsalariesarose.Ifyougoto2 page433,doyouseethat?{E/88/433}3 A.Ido.4 Q.AndMsSlark,orMrsGroves,hasbeentaskedwiththe5 job,byMrMcAlindon,oflookingatthesalariesand6 bonuses.Doyouremember?7 A.IthinkMsSlarkwastheretomanagetheday‐to‐day.8 Q.Shewas,butinrelationtosalariesandbonuses,she9 hadbeentaskedbyMrMcAlindontolookatthisissue?

10 A.Whereisthatreference?11 Q.Ithinkit'sinMrMcAlindon'sownwitnessstatement,12 actually?13 A.I'mnotawareofthat.14 Q.Youarenotaware.Okay.Soyoudonotknowhowit15 cametobethatMsSlarkproducedthesefigures?16 A.No.17 Q.Thisproposal?18 A.No.19 Q.Ifwelookatpage434,{E/88/434}MsSlarkwritesto20 MrMcAlindonattheend.Doyouseethepenultimate21 sentence:22 "Theattachmentisforyouatthemoment,letme23 lookatworkingagainstaccountstoseeifyoucanthen24 takeittotheboardforapproval.25 "Ihavebeenverygeneroushere!"

28

1 Exclamationmark.Andthentheattachmentsare

2 thesesalaryincreases;doyousee?

3 A.Ido.

4 Q.Ifwegotopage450‐‐actually,weshouldpickitup

5 at447.{E/95/447}

6 On16May,sothat'stwoweekslater,MsSlark

7 writestoMrMcAlindon;thebottomemail,doyousee:

8 "HiMel.

9 "Ihaveworkedwiththefiguresandbasedthe

10 suggestionofsalaryincreasesonthefactthatstaff

11 havenothadevenasalaryreviewinlinewithinflation

12 foryears..."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Ido.

15 Q.That'showmanyyears?Doyouknow?

16 A.Myunderstandingitwastwoorthreeyears.

17 Q.Okay.Thensheexplainswhatshehasdoneandshesays:

18 "Pleasecouldyoulookatthissuggestiongoingto

19 boardlevel..."

20 Doyouseethat?

21 A.Correct.

22 Q.MsSlarkisworkinginhercapacitythereasmanaging

23 theDartfordSpecsavers,isn'tshe?

24 A.Correct.

25 Q.Sotheboardlevelthatsheistalkingaboutisthe



29

1 boardofDartfordSpecsaversand/orDartfordVisionplus,

2 itssubsidiary,whowastheactualemployerthat

3 employedallofthesepeopleandwouldhavebeengiving

4 themtheirsalaryincreasesandbonuses?

5 A.Youcanmakethatassumption.Idon'tknowforafact,

6 butthat'sprobablywhatCarolwasdoing.

7 Q.Yes.Butyoudidn'tputthistotheboard,didyou,of

8 DartfordVisionplusorDartfordSpecsavers,because

9 MsBirdiwouldhavebeenonthatboard,wouldn'tshe?

10 Shewasadirectorofthosetwocompanies?

11 A.Sorry,that‐‐canyoujustrepeatthatbecauseIthink

12 youhavejumpedastephere.Thisisaproposal‐‐

13 Q.That'sright,andsheasks‐‐

14 A.‐‐thatcomesthroughtome.

15 Q.That'sright,andsheasksthatthesuggestiongoesto

16 theboardlevel.Soshewantsboardlevelapprovalfor

17 thesesalaryincreasesandbonusincreases?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Sheisactuallyinposition,runningthestore?

20 A.Butatthispointintime,thisisnot‐‐hasn'tcometo

21 me.

22 Q.Wearejustabouttoseeitcometoyou‐‐

23 A.Okay,thenIthinkthenit'srelative‐‐

24 Q.‐‐acoupleofhourslater?

25 A.‐‐atthatpointthatitcomestometoanswerthe

30

1 question,butatthispointintime,it'sgoingthrough

2 aprocess.

3 Q.Theprocessis:shehascomeupwithsomefiguresas

4 requestedofherbyMrMcAlindon?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.ShehassentthemtoMrMcAlindon,16May,andthenon

7 17Mayat7.15inthemorning,MrMcAlindonforwards

8 themontoyou?

9 A.Correct.

10 Q.Andforwardsthatemailtoyou,theonethatsays:

11 "Pleasecouldyoulookatthesuggestiongoingto

12 boardlevel."

13 A.Correct.

14 Q.Andsays:

15 "Derek.

16 "Followingourinterviews,salarieswereidentified

17 asbeinganissue..."

18 Theonlyinterviewsthatwehaveevidenceofare

19 interviewson1May,theonesItookyoutowiththe

20 interviewnotes.Doyouremember?

21 A.Sorry,canyousaythatagain?

22 Q."Derek,

23 "Followingourinterviews,salarieswereidentified

24 asbeinganissue..."

25 That'sMrMcAlindontellingyouthat‐‐

31

1 A.Itis‐‐2 Q.‐‐attheinterviews‐‐3 A.‐‐butyouweresayingitwasjustthoseinterviews.4 Idon'tknowwhetherit'sthoseinterviewsorother5 interviews.6 Q.Okay.Doyouknowofsomeotherinterviewsthat7 MrMcAlindonhadatthattime?8 A.Hewasdoinganinvestigation,sohewouldhavebeen9 conductinginterviews.

10 Q.Withwhom?I'minterestedtohear?11 A.Ihavegotnoidea.12 Q.Youhavenoidea?Okay.Ifwedon'thaveinterview13 notesfromhisinterviews,arewetopresumethatthere14 arenosuchinterviews?15 A.Yes,thatinfersthat.16 Q.Okay,Ihavetakenyoutothetwointerviewnotesthat17 hehasprovided,oneforMrsFrondigounandone18 MrMsO'Brien.Thosearethetwointerviews?19 A.Okay.20 Q."Followingourinterviews,salarieswereidentifiedas21 beinganissue,whichIaskedCaroltoreview."22 Doyousee?23 A.Okay.24 Q.SoitdoeslooklikeyouknewthatitwasMrMcAlindon25 whowasthepersonwhohadstartedtheballrollingwith

32

1 CarolSlarkaboutthesesalaryreviews?2 A.OnlyatthepointIreceivedtheemail.3 Q.Yes.AndMrMcAlindonsays:4 "Herproposalsseemappropriateandreasonable,and5 Ifeelshouldbeapproved.Couldyouauthorisethis,6 shouldIpasstheproposaltosomeoneelsetoreviewor7 shouldweleaveitonhold?"8 That'sjusttoyou,personally.Doyousee?9 A.Correct.

10 Q.Andyoureplyatpage450.{E/97/450}Itappearsthat11 initially,therewassomeproblemsendingthe12 attachment,butifyougotothetop,itlookslikethe13 attachmenthasgotthroughandyouwrite:14 "Mel.15 "Thanksfortheemail.16 "IagreewithCarol'ssentimentsbutweneedto17 discusstheproposalswithLegal...sonoactionyet."18 Doyousee?19 A.Correct.20 Q."WemayneedDirectorsapprovalforthissortofaction21 (daytodaybusiness)."22 A.Correct.23 Q.Socomingbacktoit,thesesalaryincreases,MsSlark24 wantedboardapproval.Ihavesuggestedtoyouthat's25 boardapprovaloftheemployercompanyorits‐‐



33

1 A.Well,thereisastepinbetweenthat,becauseIthen2 wenttoCristinadelGrazia.3 Q.Yes.4 A.Andspoketoheraboutthis.5 Q.Yes.6 A.Followingthatconsultation,IwashappythatIcould7 continueastheAdirectorrepresentingDartford8 Visionplusandcouldmakethosedecisions.Soitdidn't9 needtogotoboard.

10 Q.SoyounowastheAdirectorofDartfordVisionplus?11 A.Correct.12 Q.Ihavetakenyoutothisatlengthandyouseemedto13 acknowledgethatDartfordVisionplusdoesn'thavean14 Adirector‐‐doesn'thaveAshareholdersand15 Bshareholders?16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Itdoesn'thaveAshareholders;ithas17 Adirectors,doesitnot?18 MRSTUART:NotAdirectors,AandBdirectors.Ithas19 directors.ThesharesofDartfordVisionplusLimited20 arenotAandBshares,myLord.21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:No,Iunderstandthat.22 MRSTUART:AndsotherearenoAdirectors‐‐23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:TherearenoAshareholdersand24 Bshareholders,butI'mnotsurethatitfollowsthat25 therearenoAdirectorsandBdirectors.(Pause)

34

1 Ifonelooksat3.1.1‐‐thismaynotbetheright

2 momenttobehavingthisdebate,but3.1.1ofthe

3 shareholders'agreementsays‐‐{D/15/180}

4 MRSTUART:Whichcompany,myLord?

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Theshareholders'agreement.

6 MRSTUART:That'stheshareholderagreementforadifferent

7 company.

8 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Itsays:

9 "TheDirectorsherebydelegatealltheirpowersof:

10 "3.1.1daytodaymanagementofthebusinessofthe

11 CompanyandanySubsidiarytotheAdirectors."

12 MRSTUART:Ofthe‐‐theAdirectorsaredifferent.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:TheAdirectorsarejustpeople.

14 MRSTUART:Yes,buttheAdirectorsaretheAdirectorsof

15 DartfordSpecsaversLimited.

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Theyaretheregisteredholdersofthe

17 AsharesinDartfordSpecsaversLimited,agreed.

18 MRSTUART:Yes.

19 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Butwhattheshareholders'agreement

20 seemstosayisthatthosepeopledelegatetheirpowers

21 ofmanagementofthesubsidiarytothepeopledescribed

22 asAdirectors.

23 MRSTUART:That'sright.TheAdirectorsofDartford

24 SpecsaversLimited,whoatthistimeareMsBirdiand,

25 accordingtoMrDyson,SOG,thosearetheAdirectorsof

35

1 DartfordSpecsaversLimited.They,theAdirectorsof

2 DartfordSpecsaversLimited,havepowersofday‐to‐day

3 managementofthesubsidiary.

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Wemaybeatcrosspurposes.I'm

5 notsurethatitmatters.Myunderstandingisthatwhat

6 MrDysonhastoldmeisthatinthisrespect,following

7 aconversationwithMsdelGrazia,hetooktheviewthat

8 inhiscapacityasAdirector‐‐thatis,onbehalfof

9 SOG,whichwasthentheAdirectorofDartford

10 SpecsaversLimited,becauseitwastheAshareholder‐‐

11 hecouldtakeday‐to‐daymanagementdecisionsonbehalf

12 ofDartfordVisionplus.

13 MRSTUART:Thatseemstobewhatheissaying.


15 MRSTUART:Yes.

16 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Andyouweresuggestingtohim‐‐

17 MRSTUART:No,Iwasaskinghim,"Adirectorofwhich

18 company?"toseewhetherheactuallyhadanyactual

19 understandingofwhathewasdoingatall,because

20 Idon'tacceptthathedoes,butIwantedtojust

21 clarifywithhimwhathemeantbytheAdirectors.

22 IshisLordshipcorrect:whatyoumeantbythe

23 AdirectorsistheAdirectorsofDartfordSpecsavers

24 Limited?

25 A.Correct.

36

1 Q.ThoseAdirectorswereSOG,actingthroughyou,yousay?

2 A.Correct.

3 Q.AndMsBirdi?

4 A.Whowassuspended.Andherdutiesweresuspendedas

5 well.

6 Q.Whatduties?

7 A.AstheAdirectorofday‐to‐day.

8 Q.Howdoyousayyoususpendedherfromherdutiesas

9 adirectorofDartfordSpecsaversLimited?

10 A.Myunderstandingwasthatonceshewassuspendedasan

11 employee,shewasalsosuspendedofherpowersinterms

12 ofday‐to‐daymanagementandthereforewasnotactiveas

13 anAdirector.Thatismyunderstanding.

14 Q.Wheredidyougetthatunderstandingfrom?

15 A.ThroughconsultationwithLegal.

16 MRPOTTS:Ithinkthat'slikelytostrayintoprivilege,my

17 Lord.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Hejustsaidit'sthroughconsultation

19 withLegal.

20 MRPOTTS:Ijustwanttomakeclearthereisnoway‐‐


22 MRSTUART:Allright.Andthenpage457;doyousee457?

23 {E/100/457}

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.22May,MrLunn.Now,whichdepartmentisMrLunn‐‐



37

1 A.22May?2 Q.Yes,thebottomemailonpage457.Youhavetoread3 theminreverseorder.4 A.Oh,sorry.I'matthebottom,yes.5 Q.MrLunnon22MayiswritingtoMrRyan.MrLunnisin6 whichdepartment?7 A.MrLunnisthemanagerofthesharedventure.8 Q.He'ssharedventureportfolio.AndMrRyanisin9 businesstransfer;wehavealreadyhadhimtoday?

10 A.Correct.11 Q."HiMike.12 "ThelatestrumouristhattheGravesendpartners13 havebeenseenintheDartfordstorebecausetheyare14 buyingit?!15 "Areyouawareofthis?"16 Doyouseethat?17 A.Ido.18 Q.AndthenMrRyanrepliestoMrLunnonthetopandhe19 copiesinMrGlass,whoisthemanwhodidthat20 valuation,isn'the?21 A.Correct.22 Q.AndMrHowarth;whichdepartmentisMrHowarthin?23 A.Partnerrecruitment.24 Q.AndMrMarkham;whichdepartmentishein?25 A.Partnerrecruitment.

38

1 Q.Okay.Sowehavethebusinesstransferteamandpartner

2 recruitmentandthesharedventuredepartmentinthis

3 emailandthere,MrRyanissayingtoMrLunn:

4 "HiNeil.

5 "Wearenotatthemomentseekingbuyersforany

6 sharesinDartford."

7 Doyouseethat?

8 A.Ido.

9 Q.SoitwouldappearthatSOG'spositionasat22May,or

10 23Mayatleast,wasthatyouarenotsellingthePatel

11 sharesthatyouhaveacquiredthreemonthsearlier?

12 A.Notatthistime,no.

13 Q."TheGravesendpartnershaveaskedtobeconsidered

14 if/whensharesareforsale.

15 "ThisisinMel'srealmatthemoment."

16 TheonlythinginMel'srealmatthatmoment,

17 22May,wouldbeMsBirdi'sposition,wouldn'tit?

18 A.Well,MrMcAlindonisstillcontinuingwiththe

19 investigation.MrRyanis,atthemoment,notbringing

20 thosesharesforsalebecauseit'snotareallygood

21 time.It'sinappropriate.Wedon'tknowwhatthe

22 outcomeisgoingtobe,andintroducingotherpartners

23 inatthistime,IwouldimaginethatMrRyanissaying,

24 "Weneedtogetclarityontheoutcomeandtheprocess

25 that'scurrentlygoingon",isthewaythatIwould

39

1 understandit.

2 Q.Okay.PerhapsIshouldhaveaskedyou:didyouhaveany

3 knowledgeofthisatthetime?Youwereoverseeing‐‐

4 A.No‐‐

5 Q.‐‐allofthesedepartmentsand‐‐

6 A.‐‐Ihadknowledgeofthisemail,no,orthis

7 correspondence.

8 Q.Orthisdecision,thisdecisionthatyouarenotselling

9 atthismoment.Wereyouawareofthat?

10 A.IwasawarethatMrRyanandIhaddiscussedwhetherit

11 wasappropriateandthat'swhatIjustsaid:wedecided

12 thatuntilthiswasproperlyinvestigatedandresolved,

13 weweren'tdoinganythingwiththeshareholding.

14 Q.Sowhenyousayitwasproperlyresolved,theonlything

15 toberesolvedwastheinvestigationintoMsBirdi?You

16 havealreadytoldthecourtthatyoustoppedthe

17 investigationintoMrPatelon20February,after

18 speakingtoMsdelGrazia?

19 A.Yes,andwhatIhavejustsaid,MrStuart,isthatat

20 thismomentintime,withwhatwasgoingon,the

21 disruptioninthestore,itwasnottherighttimeto

22 starthavinganotherdirectorbeingbroughtintothis

23 businesswhenwehavegotanotherdirectorinthe

24 businessbeinginvestigated.

25 Q.AndI'mgoingtosuggesttoyou,MrDyson,thattheplan

40

1 atthistimewasforMrMcAlindontocreateacaseto

2 getridofMsBirdisothatyou,SpecsaversOptical

3 Group,couldthenhavealloftheAsharesandyoucould

4 dowhatyoupleasedwiththestore.Thatis,eitherput

5 itintogroupventure,sharedventure,orsellthe

6 sharesthatyouacquiredfromMrPatelandyouwereto

7 acquirefromMsBirdi,atasignificantprofittoSOG?

8 A.No,that'snotcorrect.

9 MRJUSTICENUGEE:CanIaskyou:doIunderstandfromthe

10 answersyouhavejustgiventoMrStuartthatatthis

11 date,oneofthepossibleoutcomeswhichyouforesawto

12 MrMcAlindon'sinvestigationwasthatMsBirdiwould

13 loseherpositioninthestoreandthatyouwouldthen

14 haveallthesharesavailable?

15 A.Ithinkthere'stwothings,myLord.Oneiswhatyou

16 havejustsaidandthatis,therewasapossibilitythat

17 theoutcomecouldresultinMsBirdinotbeingthere;

18 butequally,therewasalsothesituationthatthestore

19 obviouslyhadbeenthroughquitealotofturmoil.We

20 didnotwanttointroduceanotherpartnerinto

21 abusinessthathadthosemattersoutstandingthat

22 hadn'tbeendealtwithorresolved.

23 Soweweren'ttalkingtoanybodyaboutthesharesin

24 Dartford,andthosewere,youknow,peopleinterestedin

25 MrPatel'sshares.Weparkedthatuntilwegotthe



41

1 investigationandthedisciplinarycompleted.


3 MRSTUART:Wasgroupventureapossibleoutcomeforthis

4 storeatthisstage?

5 A.Ofcourseit‐‐itmusthavebeenbecausewedon'tknow

6 whatthedecisionwasgoingtobemadebyMrRaines.

7 Q.WastheacquisitionofMsBirdi'sshares,ataprice

8 followingthedisciplinaryinvestigation,andthenthe

9 saleofbothsetsofsharestoanewsetofjointDOand

10 OO,soaJVpartnership‐‐wasthatapossibilityat

11 thisstage?

12 A.Theyareallpossibilitiesbecausewedon'tknowthe

13 outcomeoftheinvestigationorthedisciplinaryaction.

14 Q.ButyoudidhaveanideaofMrMcAlindon'sviewofthe

15 outcomeofthedisciplinary,didn'tyou,bythisstage,

16 becauseyoutoldhisLordshiponFridaythat

17 MrMcAlindonhadtoldyouthatshewasguilty,inhis

18 view?

19 A.Idon'trememberthatatall,I'mafraid.

20 Q.Allright.Didyouhaveaviewastothelikelihoodof

21 herguiltatthisstage?

22 A.No,Iknewthattheallegationswereveryseriousbut

23 Ihadnoviewontheoutcome.

24 Q.Okay.Sofinallyinthisbundle‐‐andIwouldliketo

25 beabletoputitaway‐‐youdealwiththebonus,or

42

1 ratherIdon'tseeyoudealingwiththebonus.The2 bonuscomesinatpage488.{E/104/488}3 DoyourememberMsSlarkhadsuggestednotonly4 salaryincreasestocertainmembersofstaff,butalso5 acompletenewbonusstructure.Doyouremember?6 A.Ido.7 Q.Didyouapprovethiscompletenewbonusstructure?8 A.Idid.9 Q.Sowhendidyoudothat?

10 A.WhenIwas‐‐atthepointwhenIwasconsideringthe11 salaryincreases,becauseitwaspartofthe12 communicationaroundthattime.13 Q.Wasit?Wheredoyousayyoucommunicatedthatthe14 bonusstructureshouldbeamendedinthisfundamental15 way?Idon'tthinkyouwerehereontheday,butwe16 wentthroughtheevidencetoseethedifferencebetween17 theoldtypeofbonusstructureandthenewbonus18 structure.It'sacompletelydifferentstructure,isn't19 it?20 A.It'sabonusstructure,yes.Wehavelotsofdifferent21 bonusstructures.Theychangeallthetimewithin22 Specsavers.Eachstorehastheirfavouriteofhowto23 motivatetheirstaff.Thishappenstobeonethathad24 beenusedinanotherstorethatMsSlarkhad25 obviously‐‐MrsGroveshadbeeninvolvedin.

43

1 Q.Okay.Didyouunderstandthattheeffectofthisbonus

2 structuremightbethatthestorecouldactuallyperform

3 worsethanithad‐‐

4 A.Andwhoseopinionisthat?

5 Q.Sorry?

6 A.Whoseopinionisthat?

7 Q.It'stheanalysisthatIthinkhasbeenagreedupon.

8 A.Ihavenotagreedanyanalysis.

9 Q.Okay.

10 A.Thisisabonusstructurewhichismotivatingstaff‐‐

11 samedaylastyear‐‐todrivethesalesforward.If

12 theydrivethesalesforwardbyworkingtogetherasteam

13 theywillget10percent‐‐theywillget£10for

14 a10percentincrease.It'sself‐funding.It's

15 aself‐fundingbonusscheme.

16 Q.Okay,butdidyouunderstandthatitworksthisway:the

17 calculationisdonebytakingaweek,salesforaweek.

18 Doyouunderstandthat?

19 A.I'mlisteningtoyou,yes.

20 Q.Andthendividingtheweek'ssalesfigure‐‐let'ssay

21 £18,500fromthepreviousyear‐‐dividingthatby

22 six‐‐notweightedtotakeaccountofthefactthat

23 SaturdaysalwayshavehugelymoreturnoverthanMondays,

24 butsimplyastraightdivisionbysix.Soyoutakethe

25 £18,500,youdivideitbysixandyouget£3,085forone

44

1 dayandthen,ifthestoredoesbetterthan£3,085‐‐do

2 youunderstand?

3 A.Idounderstand,MrStuart.I'mjustlookingfor

4 areferencepointwherewhatyouaresayingisthebonus

5 structure.

6 Q.Thisisthebonussuggestion.Didyouunderstandhow

7 thisbonuswastowork?

8 A.Ihaven'tseenthisdocumentuntilyouhavetakenmeto

9 itnow,so‐‐

10 Q.Sowhatbonusschemedidyouapprove,becauseyouare

11 themanwhoapprovedthenewbonusscheme?

12 A.Myunderstandingatthetimewasthatthiswouldbesame

13 daylastyear,andthatwouldbecomethetargetforthe

14 dayandeverybodywasthenchargedwithtryingto

15 improvethatturnoverforthatdaybyeither10percent

16 or20percent,inordertoearnabonus.

17 Q.Isee.Soyouthoughtthestorerecordsfor1June2006

18 wouldhaveaturnoverforthatday,andthenon

19 1June2007,underthenewbonusscheme,onewould

20 simplycomparetheturnoverfor1June2007with

21 1June2006andif‐‐

22 A.Samedaylastyear.

23 Q.Samedaylastyear‐‐andiftheturnoverhadgoneupby

24 20percent,theneachofthemembersofstaffwhowere

25 ontheteamwouldget£20?



45

1 A.Thatwasmyunderstanding,yes.

2 Q.Thatisnotactuallyhowthebonusworked.

3 A.Atthetime,Ididn'thavethis.Ididn'tknowthat

4 thiswasthescheme.Iunderstoodit,atthetime

5 Iapprovedit,tobetheoneIhavejustdescribed.

6 Q.Okay.Sowhatdocumentsrelatingtoabonusschemedid

7 youhaveavailabletoyouwhenyoumadethatdecision?

8 A.Ican'tremember.

9 Q.Yousee,Ihavetakenyoutopage447.{E/95/447}Do

10 youremember?Andthesalaryreview,iethepage448,

11 {E/95.1/448}thatyoudidhave.It'sanattachment‐‐

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.‐‐toanemailtoyou.Doyouseethat?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Ican'tseethatyouhadanynoticeoforinputintothe

16 newbonusscheme?

17 A.IwasawareofitbecauseIcanrememberit.How

18 Ibecameawareofit‐‐Ican'tansweryourquestion,

19 MrStuart.

20 Q.Okay.Doyouhaveanynotesofyourdecision‐making

21 processinreachingthis‐‐

22 A.No.

23 Q.Didyoudiscussitwithanyothermembersoftheboard,

24 ofanycompany?

25 A.No.

46

1 Q.Didyounotthinkitwouldbeappropriatetoatleast

2 involveMsBirdiinthiselement,becausethisbonus

3 schemewouldapplywhenshereturned,wouldn'tit?

4 A.Itwouldhaveappliedwhenshereturned,yes,but

5 Ididn'tconsiderit,no,becauseMsBirdiwassuspended

6 fromheremploymentandasfarasIunderstood,shealso

7 didn'thavethepoweroftheAsharedirectorforthe

8 day‐to‐dayresponsibilitythatIdidthroughSOG.

9 Q.Butit'shermoneyyouareauthorisingtobepaidaway,

10 isn'tit?

11 A.Well,no,atthistimewearealsoshareholders,the

12 Ashareholders,inthisstore.

13 Q.Yes,youwerepayinghalfyourownmoneyandhalfher

14 moneyaway?

15 A.Correct.

16 Q.AsanAshareholder,didyounotconsideritwouldbe

17 appropriatetoatleastcanvassheropinionasto

18 whetherafundamentalchangetothewholebonusscheme

19 thatwastoapplytoallherstaffhereafter‐‐

20 A.No,Ididn't.

21 Q.No?

22 A.No.

23 Q.Why?She'ssuspendedfrom‐‐

24 A.Becausewewereinchargeoftheday‐to‐day.Itwas

25 abonusschemereplacinganotherbonusscheme.Itwas

47

1 self‐funding,soitwasactuallynotgoingtocostthe2 businessanymoremoneybecauseiftheydidn'ttakethe3 10percentorthe20percent,therewasnopayout.4 Q.Thepreviousbonusstructurewasbasedonaweekly5 basis‐‐actuallyamonth,but‐‐andallthemembersof6 staffwhowereinvolvedinthebonus,theygottheir7 percentageoftheoverallbonus‐‐8 A.Iunderstandthat,MrStuart.9 Q.‐‐thatwasrecovered,dependinguponthemonth's

10 turnover.Underthisscheme,itcouldbethecasein11 agivenweekthatindays1,2,3,4,5oftheweek,the12 turnoverwasupby30percent.Soeverymemberof13 staffwhoworkedforthosefivedayswouldeachget£3014 aday.Sothat's£150bonusesforeachmemberofstaff,15 onaverage?16 A.Iunderstand.17 Q.Sohowmanymembersofstaffmighttherebe?Eight18 workingonagivenday?19 A.Icouldn'tanswerthatquestion.Idon'tknowthe20 structure.21 Q.Okay.Butitcouldbebonusesof£1,200ormoreearned22 forthosefivedays,andthenonthesixthday,there23 mighthavebeenabadSaturday‐‐let'ssaySaturdaywas24 thesixthday?25 A.WhatIdounderstand,MrStuart,isifyoumotivate

48

1 peopleeveryday,ratherthangivingthemafigurethat

2 hasbeencalculatedonamonthandthenbrokendown,by

3 talkingtothestaffeveryday,raisingthechallengeof

4 theday,motivatingthem,youhavegotmorechanceof

5 achievingyourobjectivesthanyouhavebyjustsimply

6 saying,"Ifwedosomething,youwillgetsomething".

7 Thiswasabout,eachday,membersofstaffbeing

8 reallyfocusedabouthelpingtodrivethebusiness

9 forward,andIdon'tconsiderthatthat'sabadthing,

10 andiftheydidit,itwasself‐funding.Andinyour

11 scenario,wheresomedaysitmightnothavehappened,it

12 maynothavehappened,butoverallinmyopinion‐‐and

13 I'vebeeninvolvedinretailandinSpecsaversand

14 bonusesforalongtime‐‐itsoundedtobelike

15 areallygoodscheme.

16 Q.Iftheneteffectofitwasthatif,inagivenmonth,

17 verysubstantialbonuses‐‐thousandsofpounds‐‐could

18 bepayabletothestaff,butforthatmonth,theoverall

19 turnoveractuallywentdowncomparedwiththeprevious

20 year‐‐

21 A.Ifthathadhappened,bearinginmindweareincharge

22 oftheday‐to‐dayastheAshareholder/thedirectorin

23 thestore,anditwascostingustoomuchmoneyandit

24 actuallyhadn'tworked,wewouldhavestoppeditbecause

25 wewouldhaveexaminedtheperformanceofthebonus



49

1 scheme.Thesearenotsetinstoneanditdoesn'tmean

2 thatyoucan'tchangethem.

3 Q.Allright.Youcanputawaythatbundle.

4 MyLord,Iseethetime.


6 MRSTUART:Isthat‐‐

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Wewilltakeafive‐minutebreak.

8 (11.41am)

9 (Shortbreak)

10 (11.49am)


12 MRSTUART:MrDyson,fromparagraph67onwardstoabout87,

13 aboutthenext20paragraphsofyourfirstwitness

14 statement,{C/9/103}youdealwiththeissueofwhatyou

15 describeas"Emergencymanagementcover"andthesevery

16 substantialcoststhatgotchargedtoDartford.Doyou

17 remember?Saidtobeforthemanagementcoverforthe

18 Dartfordstore.Doyourememberthat?

19 A.Irememberthecostoftheemergencymanagementcover,

20 yes.

21 Q.Therearetwoelementstoit.Thereistheemergency

22 managementcoveritself,sothepeoplelikeMsSlarkor

23 MrSeanMcLaughlin,whocameinlater,thereisacost

24 orchargethatisappliedinrelationtotheirinput.

25 Andthenthereareothercostsandchargesrelatingto

50

1 theinvestigationintoMsBirdi,includingthe2 disciplinaryprocess,MrRaines,etcetera.Sothere3 arethosetwoelementstoit.4 WouldyoujustbetakentobundleE3.Startat5 page506.{E/109/506}Doyouhavethat?6 A.Ihave.7 Q.Youarecc'edonanemailfromMrMcAlindonto8 KellyTurian.Doyousee?9 A.Yes.

10 Q.IsKellyTurian‐‐doyouknowwheresheis?11 A.Ihavenoidea.Ihavenoideawhosheis.12 Q.Okay.Anyway,thesubjectis:13 "ConsultancyInvoicesDartford."14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Yes.16 Q."Kelly.17 "Couldyoupleasearrangeforpaymentofthese18 invoices,andtakethisemailasauthorisationfor19 payment?20 "Mel."21 Doyouseethat?22 A.Ido.23 Q."TheseinvoicesareforworkcarriedoutattheDartford24 storeformanagingthedaytodaymanagementofthe25 businesswhiletheDirectorissuspended."

51

1 Doyouseethat?

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.Ifwecouldjusttakeonestepback,therearetwo

4 directors,Adirectors,oftheDartfordstoreatthis

5 point,accordingtoyou.OneisMsBirdi?

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.Sheissuspended,yousay.AndtheotherisSOG/you?

8 A.Correct.

9 Q.YouhavetoldhisLordship‐‐justinthelasthourthe

10 evidenceyouweregivingwasthatyouweretakingthese

11 decisionsanddoingallofthisasyourday‐to‐day

12 management.Youweretakingovertheday‐to‐day

13 managementofthestore,asanA‐‐

14 A.I'mnotsurethatIsaidthat.WhatIsaidwasthatin

15 respectofthewages,whichiswhatweweretalking

16 about,thenthatdefinitelywasundertheday‐to‐day

17 managementdecision.

18 Q.Butyouweretakingovertheday‐to‐daymanagementof

19 thestore,yousay,includingthewagesandthebonuses

20 andanythingelsethatmighthavehappened,andyouwere

21 doingthatasAshareholder.Capital"A"shareholder.

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.Now,asAshareholder,youarenotentitledtocharge

24 forthat,areyou?

25 A.Chargewhat?

52

1 Q.Chargethestoreforcarryingouttheday‐to‐day2 management;thatistheobligationofanAshareholder3 undertheshareholderagreement?4 A.Thecostofallday‐to‐daymanagementinthe5 shareholders'agreementistheresponsibilityofthe6 store.Sothepaymentofitisforthestoretopay7 thosecosts,myunderstanding.8 Q.Why?9 A.Becausethat'swhatitsaysintheshareholders'

10 agreement.11 Q.Where?12 A.Idon'tknowexactlywhere,butIdoknowthereis13 areferencetoitintheshareholders'agreement.14 Q.IhadbettertaketoyouitbecauseIwouldliketosee15 it.D1,page177istheshareholderagreement.16 {D/15/177}17 A.Sorry,canyougivemethereferenceagain,MrStuart?18 Q.177isthebeginningoftheshareholderagreement.19 Thereisapowerofmanagement,delegatedby3.1on20 page180.{D/15/180}So:21 "...alltheirpowersof:22 "3.1.1daytodaymanagementofthebusinessofthe23 CompanyandanySubsidiarytotheAdirectors."24 So,thetwoAdirectorshaveallthepowersof25 day‐to‐daymanagement;doyousee?



53

1 A.No,Idon'tsee.Which‐‐2 Q.Page180?3 A.Ihavegotthat.4 Q.Atthetop,3,management?5 A.Yes.6 Q.3.1:7 "TheDirectorsherebydelegatealltheirpowers8 of...9 "3.1.1daytodaymanagementofthebusinessofthe

10 CompanyandanySubsidiarytotheAdirectors."11 Sothatisadelegationofallthepowersof12 managementtothetwoAdirectors.Doyouseethat?13 A.Ido.14 Q.Andthenunder3.2thereisalistofthingswhichare15 notday‐to‐daymanagement,soyoucan'tbedoingthisas16 anAdirector,simplyasanAdirector.Notday‐to‐day17 managementincludes:18 "3.2.8theemploymentordismissalofofficersor19 staffatsalariesorratesofpayinexcessof£10,00020 perannum..."21 Justwhilstweareonthefigures,£440aday‐‐22 A.Correct.23 Q.‐‐fiveorsixdaysaweekisbetween£2,200,fivedays24 aweek,or£2,640,sixdaysaweek.52weeksayear.25 It'ssomewherebetween£110,000and£150,000ayear.

54

1 A.Onanextrapolationitis,yes.

2 Q.Inthiscaseit'snot‐‐asitturnedout,it'snoteven

3 muchofanextrapolation,but,yes.Perannumit's‐‐

4 A.Whentheemergencymanagementcoverwentintohere,we

5 couldneverhaveenvisageditwouldtakeussixmonths

6 inordertogettheinvestigationandthedisciplinary

7 completed,andthere'sanumberofreasonsforthat,in

8 termsofcancellationofmeetings,MsBirdibeing

9 incapacitatedthroughillness,etcetera,etcetera.

10 Soalthoughthefigureendsupat£65,000,whenwe

11 startoffonthejourneyinordertoprovideemergency

12 managementcover,webelieveatthattimeitwouldbe

13 foramuchshorterperiodoftime.

14 Sothe£65,000isabignumber,butit'sbecauseof

15 theamountoftimethatwearehavingtocoverthe

16 emergencymanagementcoverinthestore.

17 Q.Aboutsevenoreightmonths'worth?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Soperannum,£100,000‐‐

20 A.Iunderstandthepointyouaremakingandthat'sthe

21 extrapolationforayear,yes.

22 Q.Well,no,I'mjustapplyingthis.Thissays:

23 "Theemploymentordismissalofofficersorstaffat

24 salariesorratesofpayinexcessof10,000per

25 annum..."

55

1 Ifyouaregoingtopaysomebody£440aday,they2 aregoingtoincur£10,000‐‐notperannum;theyare3 goingtoincur£10,000inlessthanamonth.4 A.Sorry,thispointisaroundtheemploymentordismissal5 ofstaff.6 Q.Yes.7 A.Thisis‐‐thispointhereisnotcoveringthecoverof8 emergencymanagementcover.9 Q.Okay.SoI'masking‐‐fine,soyousayit'snotunder

10 thatpartthatyouareexercisingsomepowerorroleor11 righttoappointthisemergencymanagementcoverthat12 youhavedone.13 Sowhereisit?Thisiswherewestartedthis14 littlesection.Iaskedyouwheredidyougetthat15 powerfrom;yousaidit'sintheagreement;Isaid,no,16 it'snot.17 A.Theday‐to‐daymanagementofthebusinessofthe18 company.Soall‐‐thatisfortheday‐to‐day19 managementofthecompanyandthereforeItakeitthat20 allcostsforday‐to‐daymanagementofthatcompany21 wouldbechargedtothecompany.22 Q.Soyouarenowsayingthattheappointmentof23 CarolSlarkandthenMrMcLaughlinandallofthatis24 day‐to‐daymanagement?25 A.Ithastobe,becauseit'smanagingtheday‐to‐day‐‐

56

1 it'semergencymanagementcover.

2 Q.No,theyarethemselvesmanagingtheday‐to‐daybusiness

3 ofthecompany?

4 A.Iunderstandthat.

5 Q.Buttoinstallthem,toinstallthatlayerofmanagement

6 intothebusiness,isnotitselfamatterofday‐to‐day

7 management,isit?

8 A.It'snotamatteritselfofday‐to‐daymanagement?

9 Q.IfMsBirdiwantedtoputinaconsultantintothe

10 business,payingthatconsultant£5,000amonthtocarry

11 outsomeoftheday‐to‐daymanagementfunctionsthatshe

12 wouldotherwiseherselfhavetodobecausesheisan

13 Adirector,thatconsultantisdoingtheworkof

14 day‐to‐daymanagingthebusiness,butthedecisionto

15 appointthatpersontocarryoutthattask,that

16 decisionisnotday‐to‐daymanagement,isit?

17 A.No,it'snot.

18 Q.No,nordoyousuggestthatitis.Sowecomebackto:

19 ifit'snotday‐to‐daymanagement,thedecisiontoput

20 inMrsSlarkat£440,oratanyprice,andit'snot

21 day‐to‐daymanagementandit'snot3.2.8,theemployment

22 ofofficersorstaff,wheredoyousayyouhavethe

23 powertodothisandimposethis£110,000ayearcoston

24 abusinesswhoseprofitsinthepreviousyearwere

25 £46,000?



57

1 A.ThestoreisnowwithouttheAdirectorthatwehave2 dismissedandwithouttheotherAdirector,MsBirdi,3 whoissuspended.4 Q.Butithasyou.Youhaveriddentotherescue;youhave5 purchasedMrPatel'ssharesandyouarenowthe6 Adirector?7 A.Iunderstandthat,sowehavetoprovidecovertorun8 thestoreforday‐to‐day,sosomebodywholeadsthe9 activitiesofthestore.

10 Q.Yes,youcouldgothereyourself?11 A.Andmyunderstandingisthatallactivitiesthatareto12 dowiththerunningofthestoreundertheday‐to‐day13 management,whicheffectivelytheyarecarryingout,is14 chargedtothestore.15 Q.Yes,butwhy?16 A.Becauseitneedsleadershipanditneedsthefocusof17 somebodyinthestoreonadailybasis,leadingthe18 teams.19 Q.YouaretheAdirector?20 A.Iunderstandthat.21 Q.Youneedtogivethefocusandtheleadership.Youhave22 suspendedMsBirdifrombeingabletogivethe23 leadershipandthefocus.That'sadecisionyouhave24 made,justyou,notthecompany;that'sright,isn'tit?25 A.Canyousaythatagain,MrStuart?

58

1 Q.YouhavemadeadecisiontosuspendMsBirdisoshecan

2 nolongergivertheleadership‐‐

3 A.Correct.

4 Q.‐‐inthestore?

5 A.Correct.

6 Q.Youhavetogivetheleadershipinthestore,theother

7 Adirector,SOG.Whatgivesyoutherighttochargethe

8 store£110,000or£120,000ayearfordelegatingyour

9 leadershipfunctiontoanominee,MsSlarkor

10 MrMcLaughlinoranyoneelseyouchoosetodoit?What

11 givesyoutherighttoputthatcostagainstthestore?

12 A.Becausewearelookingafterandprotectingthe

13 interestsofDartfordstore,andasashareholder,

14 Bshareholder,thenwehavetakenthedecisiontoput

15 thatcoverinthereinordertomakesurethatweare

16 lookingafterthebusinessandactinginthebest

17 interestsofthebusiness.Andthewaythatwedothat

18 isbythemethodologywehaveused,becausetheseare

19 thebestpeopleavailabletous,sowehavemadethatas

20 thedecisiononhowtocontinueforthisstoretorun.

21 Q.Allright.Lookingatpage506then,MrMcAlindon,who

22 istheinvestigationdepartment‐‐{E/109/506}

23 A.Sorry,50...?

24 Q.506.Heistheinvestigationdepartment,isn'the?

25 A.Yes.

59

1 Q.Heisnotyou.HeisnotSOG.Heistheinvestigator.2 Whathewantstodoishewants:3 "Canyoupleasechargethemtomyincomebudget..."4 A.Hewantstochargetherightthatwehaveagreedat5 boardforMrMcAlindon'steaminprovidingtheservices.6 Q.Hm‐mm.Yousaythatinyourwitnessstatement,that7 thisrateof£440wasagreedattheboard?8 A.Correct.9 Q.BywhichyoumeantheboardofSOG?

10 A.Correct.11 Q.Canyouproduceanyevidenceofthat?12 A.IunderstandthatwetriedtofindthatbutIwasthere13 onthedaythatIproposedthattotheboard.Iwas14 therewhentheboardacceptedit.15 Q.Butthereisnominuteofthatmeeting,ofthat16 decision?17 A.Ican'tanswerthatquestionbecauseIdidn'tgolooking18 forit,butIunderstandwehavesearchedforitandto19 noavail.20 Q.Tonoavail.Whendidthisallegeddecisiontakeplace?21 A.Itwouldhavebeensometimearound2002,butIam22 guessing.23 Q.WasMrMcAlindoninvolvedinthedecision?24 A.Well,MrMcAlindonwouldhaveprovidedtherationale25 behindtheproposal.

60

1 Q.So‐‐2 A.Thisisablendedrate.Thisistoincorporatethe3 costsof‐‐youknow,thepeoplewhoattendthestore4 are,inthemain,intheLossPreventionteam.It's5 theirsalary,it'stheirtravel,it'stheir6 accommodation,it'stheirlivingawayfromhome7 allowances,it'stheirmeals.So£440adayas8 ablendedcost,whenyouputitinthoseterms,isthe9 truecostofwhatitcostsustodothesupportandthe

10 investigation.11 Q.Iswhatyounowsay,butyou‐‐12 A.No.13 Q.‐‐havenoevidenceofthatblendedcost‐‐14 A.That'swhatIhavealwayssaidsinceweagreed£44015 aday,awayback,sometimearound2002.16 Q.Hesaysheisinvoicing£440aday,sothatisthe17 investigationdepartmentisinvoicing£440adayforher18 services?19 A.Well,theyareunderhiscontrolandhisratefor20 investigatingandsupportingastoreis£440aday.21 Q.Whoagreedtopayher£400aday?22 A.IbelievethatwasMrMcAlindon.23 Q.Soyoudidn'tplayanypartinthat?24 A.No.25 Q.Didheaskyou?



61

1 A.No.

2 Q.Itseemsalot,£400aday,giventhatMrMcLaughlinwas

3 £200aday?

4 A.IunderstandthatMrMcLaughlinwas£200aday,yes.

5 Q.Sodoubleseemsanawfullot?

6 A.TheratethatMrMcAlindonchargedwastheratethatwe

7 hadagreedatboardforhimprovidingservicesto

8 stores,eitherthroughsupportorthroughinvestigation.

9 Q.I'mnottalkingabouttheratethathecharges;I'm

10 talkingabouttheratethatheagreedtogiveto

11 MsSlarkfordoingwhatshehadtodo.

12 A.Well,MsSlarkisoneoftheveryfewpeoplethatwere

13 availablewiththerequiredleadershipskills,

14 knowledge,understandingofourbusiness,toprovide

15 thatsortofsupport.Wearenotfishinginapond

16 wheretherearehundredsofpeople;it'saverysmall

17 pond.AndifMrsSlarksayssheischarging£400,then

18 MrMcAlindonhastobasethatonthefactthathehasn't

19 gotaqueueofpeoplewaitingtodothis.

20 Q.ThetruthisthatSOGseekstochargetheindividual

21 storesasmuchasitthinksitcangetawaywith?

22 A.That'snottrue.

23 Q.Andasevidenceofthat,wesee,forexample,page546.

24 {E/128/546}Aswellasallofthecostsofthe

25 emergencymanager,youalsochargethestoresallofthe

62

1 costsoftheinvestigationitself,don'tyou?

2 A.Wedo.

3 Q.AndweseeanemailfromMrHamilton,whoisthemanwho

4 youhaveputinalongsideMrMcAlindonatthisstage?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.AndheiswritingtoLindaWeaver,whoIunderstandis

7 MarkRaines'sPA?

8 A.Correct.

9 Q.Soyoumustknowherquitewell?

10 A.Imustknow...?

11 Q.Youmustknowherquitewell?

12 A.Linda?Yes,Idoknowher.

13 Q.I'mnotsurequitewhatMrRaines'sinvolvement‐‐why

14 isMrRaines'sPAdealingwithMrHamilton's

15 investigationcharges?

16 A.HeisdealingwithMrHamilton's...?

17 Q.Investigationcharges.Look,hesays:

18 "Linda.

19 "JusttoconfirmcoststobeattributedtoDartford

20 retheInvestigation..."

21 A.BecauseMrHamiltonworksforMrRaines.

22 Q.Okay:

23 "IpresumeOwenwillchargethemforBina.

24 "Alsoifyouneedthecostofmyroom/foodand

25 airportparkingtheywere£77.70and£41.50

63

1 respectively.Thenthere'sthecarhire.

2 "I'dscrew'emforeverything!!!"

3 IsthatanappropriatewaytospeakaboutyourJV

4 partners?

5 A.No,it'snot.

6 Q."I'dscrew'emforeverything!!!"

7 Exclamationmarks.Isthatthewayyouspeakover

8 there?

9 A.No.

10 Q.ItlookslikeLindaWeaverdoes.LindaWeaver,because

11 shesaysatthetopofpage546‐‐herresponseis:

12 "Iagreehaha."

13 Isthatappropriate?

14 A.No.

15 Q.No.ItlookslikeMrRainesandhisPA,atleast,

16 consideritappropriatetochargethestoreasmuchas

17 youcanpossiblygetawaywith?

18 A.IthinkthatMrRaineswouldnotagreewiththatand

19 thesetwocommentsinhereareextremelyunfortunateand

20 Idon'tcondonethem,andIwasunawarethatthiswas

21 beingsaidatthetime.

22 Q.Okay.Swiftlyon.582.{E/138/582}28June.

23 MsGroves'sinvoicesforJunearenowbeingforwarded

24 on,underthesubjectheading,"Sensitivematter"?

25 A.582?

64

1 Q.Yes.DoyouknowwhoKellyTurianis?

2 A.No.Youaskedmethatearlier.Idon'tknow.

3 Q.Okay.Yourinvolvementatthistime,June2007,

4 lateJune,seemstobethis.Page588.{E/139/588}You

5 areobviouslyspeakingtoMrMcAlindonaboutthisandhe

6 isemailingyou;doyouseeatthetopofthepage:

7 "To:DerekDyson.

8 "From:MelMcAlindon."

9 Doyouseethat?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.7.24inthemorning:

12 "Derek.

13 "Ithoughtyoumightbeinterestedinthisemail,

14 CarolGrovesveryhappy.Notbadformeeitherasshe

15 hasseentheothersidenowandnowappreciatesthework

16 wedoindealingwithbadeggs..."

17 IsMsBirdia"badegg",MrDyson?

18 A.MsBirdi'sobviouslyhadseriousallegationsputagainst

19 herforseriousthingsthatwerebeingconsideredbythe

20 disciplinary.

21 Q.Butatthispoint,wehadn'thadanydisciplinary

22 hearing,hadwe?MrRaineshadn'tstartedyet?

23 A.No,Iknowthat.

24 Q.Sheisnota"badegg"yet,surely?

25 A.No,that‐‐I'mnotagreeing.Thisisobviously



65

1 acommentthathasbeenmadebyMrMcAlindon.

2 Q.Hm‐mm.IsthisindicativeofMrMcAlindon'sviewof

3 her,asfarasyouwereaware,atthistime?

4 A.Sorry,canyoujustrepeatthatagain?

5 Q.Isthecomment"badeggs"‐‐plainlyreferringto

6 MsBirdi‐‐isthatindicativeofMrMcAlindon'sviewof

7 MsBirdiataroundthistime?

8 A.Theanswermustbehemustdo,becausethat'swhathe

9 haswritten.

10 Q.Yes.Presumablyyouwerehavingconversationswithhim

11 inthisperiod,April,May,June2007,regarding

12 DartfordandMsBirdi?

13 A.NotthatI'mawareof.Youcanpointmetothe

14 correspondence.

15 Q.No,thereisno‐‐therearenonotes,thereareno

16 memosofyourconversations.Inthewholeofthe

17 15bundles,wedon'thave‐‐

18 A.Yes,butIthinkyouhaveto‐‐wehavealreadytalked

19 aboutitbutyouhavetoappreciate,Idon'tsitthere

20 worryingaboutonestoreoutofnearly1,000stores.

21 I'vegotabigreportingstructure.I'minvolvedin

22 internationalexpansionand,youknow,thisisnotstuff

23 that'sonmyagendaeverysingleday,unlessI'mcalled

24 tomakesomedecision.

25 Q.MsGrovesreferstogeneratingherownlittlegoldmine.

66

1 Doyouseeinthesecondparagraphofheremail?Was

2 Dartfordalsoalittlegold‐‐

3 A.Sorry,canyoupointmetothat?

4 Q.Yes.SothesecondparagraphofMsGroves'semail,

5 whichwasforwardedtoyou,says:

6 "IunfortunatelyhavetorequestthatIceasework

7 attheDartfordstoreonthe13thJulydueto

8 commitmentsrequiredinpreparationofmynewstoreand

9 thefactthatIwishtotryandgetaholidaybefore

10 Iputmyheaddownandgeneratemylittlegoldmine."

11 Doyousee?

12 A.Correct.

13 Q.SoshehadbeenapprovedbyyoutobecomeaJVpartner

14 atanotherstore;isthatright?

15 A.Yes,shewasalreadyaJVpartnerandshewaswaiting

16 fortheotheropportunitytocomeup.

17 Q.Okay.

18 Page592.{E/141/592}WedealwithMrPatel'sTHP

19 invoices.Didyouhaveanyroletoplayinauthorising

20 theseinvoices?

21 A.No.

22 Q.No.Okay,Iwon'taskyouaboutitthen.

23 Atpage637,{E/155/637}wehavetheissueof

24 MrPatel'sMercedesandpaymentsmadeinrelationtoit.

25 Didyouhaveanyroletoplayinrelationtopayment

67

1 ofmoniestoMrPatelinrelationtoa‐‐2 A.No.3 Q.No.Right,Iwon'taskyouaboutthat.4 Whowastakingthesedecisionsthen,ifitwasn't5 you,thedirector?Thesefinancialdecisions?6 A.Whenyousay"financialdecisions",itwouldalldepend7 onthesizeofthatandwhetheritwasinvoiced,and8 invoicesgoofftobepaidthroughaccountspayable.So9 it'snotmakingdecisions;itis‐‐it'sdueprocess.

10 Q.Theseweren'tdueprocess.ThisisMrPatel's‐‐some11 oftheinvoiceswereinhispersonalaccount.Notall12 ofthem,butsomeofthem,andthenthispaymentwasto13 MrPatelinrelationto‐‐14 A.ButMsGroveswouldn'tknowthat.Shejustbelieved15 thattherewereinvoicescomingintothestoreandshe16 wouldforwardthoseontotheappropriatedepartment.17 Q.Isee.Soyoudidn't‐‐youthinkshejustdealtwith18 itherself,withoutevenrealisingtheywereunusual?19 A.Correct.20 Q.Didyouspeaktoheraboutitatthetime,sothatyou21 gainthatview?22 A.DidI...?23 Q.Didyouspeaktoheratthetime,soyoucouldgainthat24 viewastowhatshewasupto?25 A.No,butsheisanexperiencedjointventurepartnerof

68

1 manyyearsandwouldbedealingwithitinthewaythat

2 shedealswithallinvoicesthatcomeintoourstore.

3 Q.Okay.Page643.{E/157/643}Thereseemstobesome

4 issueaboutMrMcAlindon'sdepartment'sbudgetataround

5 thistime;doyourecallthat?Youarecc'edonthe

6 emailjustbythefirstholepunch.

7 A.Okay.ShallIreadit?

8 Q.Youcando.(Pause)

9 A.I'vereadit.I'mnotsayingIunderstanditbutI've

10 readit.

11 Q.Okay.ItappearstobeanemailaboutMrMcAlindon's

12 department'sbudget?

13 A.Yes.

14 Q.Ifyoulookatpage644,forexample,thisisastring

15 ofemails.{E/157/644}So644atthetop,thisiscc'ed

16 toyou.It'sfromMelMcAlindontoLaura,whoisinthe

17 financialaccountancydepartment.

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Heisthere‐‐ifyoulookatthethirdparagraphofhis

20 email,cc'edtoyou,itsays:

21 "Inrelationtotheincomebudget,Ihaveemailed

22 anexplanationtothispreviously.InMay,£85,185was

23 invoicedtostores,andinJune£30,043."

24 It'sallabouthisbudget,isn'tit?

25 A.Yes.



69

1 Q.Doyourecalltherewasanissueabouthimhavingto

2 sortoutincomesothathisbudgetbalanced?

3 A.No,becausethisiswhatyouwouldfind,thistypeof

4 correspondence,forallcostcentreownerswhoare

5 responsibletomakesurethattheyaremanagingtheir

6 budgetcorrectly.

7 Q.Okay.HowmuchcontactdidyouhavewithMrsGrovesat

8 thistime,youpersonally?

9 A.None.

10 Q.Youmusthavespokentoher?

11 A.NotthatIcanrecollectatthismomentintime.

12 Q.What,inthewholeperiodshewasinthestoreyounever

13 spoketoheronce?

14 A.Imayhaveseenherataregionalmeetingthatwehave.

15 Itoldyouwemeetthepartnerseveryeightweeks.

16 Q.Yes.

17 A.Carolhadbeenachairmanofthatregion.SoifIwas

18 atthatmeeting,Imayhavespokentoher.

19 Q.Okay.

20 A.ButIdon'trecollect.

21 Q.Isee.Soyourmanagementas‐‐you'reactingas

22 AdirectoratthistimeoftheDartfordstore‐‐your

23 managementofthatstoredidn'tinvolveyou

24 communicatingwithMrsGroves?You,thedirector?

25 A.Notmepersonally.MrRainesmayhavebeentalkingto

70

1 her.2 Q.WhathasitgottodowithMrRaines?3 A.MrRainesisthepersonresponsibleforallstoresin4 theUK.5 Q.Right.6 A.Operations.7 Q.Butwhat'shisroleinrelationtoDartfordatthis8 time?9 A.Thesameasitisforeveryotherstore,andthatishe

10 isresponsibleforretailoperationsintheUK.He11 worksforSOS.Hehasateamofstoresupportmanagers12 andretailsupportmanagers,etcetera,andthat'shis13 role.14 Q.DidthatincludethentellingMsSlarkwhattodo?15 A.Ididn'tsaythat‐‐youaskedme‐‐16 Q.Ordiscussingwithherwhatsheshoulddo?17 A.Youaskedmewhether‐‐whoelsemayhavebeenin18 contactwithher.19 Q.Yes,aboutthemanagementofthestore,Iaskedyou.20 Areyousayinghewasinvolvedinthedecision‐makingof21 the‐‐22 A.No.23 Q.No.WhataboutMrMcAlindon?Hewas,ofcourse?24 A.Hewasprovidingtheemergencycover.25 Q.No,butsheworkedforhim,effectively?

71

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.And‐‐

3 A.ShewasprovidingtheemergencycoverintheDartford

4 store.

5 Q.Yes,forhim,andthenhewasdoingitforyou,

6 effectively?

7 A.HewasdoingittomakesurethattheDartfordbusiness

8 wascoveredwitheffectiveleadershipduringthetime

9 thatMsBirdiwasn'tavailable.

10 Q.Okay.Andflickonto650.{E/160/650}Bytheend

11 ofJulyMrsGrovesisleaving.Sheiswritingtoyou‐‐

12 toMrMcAlindonbutcopyingyouin,andAlisonAnderson.

13 Whyaregettinginvolvedinthatlevelofemail

14 correspondence?

15 A.Idon'tknow.Imean,Carolobviouslythinksit's

16 importanttohertoincludemeontheemail.Ihavegot

17 noreasonwhy‐‐Idon'tthinkthereisanyreasonother

18 thanherwantingtojustsendamessage.

19 Q.Fine.Finallyonthisquestionoftherate,the£440

20 rate?

21 A.Correct.

22 Q.Yousaythat£440wasaratewhichwasagreedinabout

23 2002?

24 A.I'mguessing.Iknowthatweestablishedthedepartment

25 aroundabout2000.Sobythetimeyouhavegotitup

72

1 andrunning,I'mguessingaround2002,butitis

2 aguess.

3 Q.Okay.TheLossPreventiondepartmenthadarateforits

4 storeauditingservice,didn'tit,of,Ithink,£300

5 aday?

6 A.That'scorrect.ThisisfortheNHSaudit.

7 Q.Well,notjustNHS,butstoreauditsthatcovered

8 anumberofthings?

9 A.Cashmanagement.

10 Q.Physicalsecurityreview?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Completereview,etcetera,etcetera.

13 Sothat's,forthewholedepartment'sworkon

14 astore,£300aday.Butyouaresaying£440adayjust

15 forhavingonepersonsittinginthestore?

16 A.Thesearetwodifferentfunctionalities.Oneisan

17 auditteamandoneisaninvestigationteam,andthe

18 auditteamcanplanahead,theycanmaybedomorethan

19 onestoreinaday.Therearelotsofreasonsand

20 rationalebehindtherate.Itisn'tjustaboutpurely

21 wantingtochargethesamerate.Therearetwo

22 differentpartsoftheLossPreventionteam.

23 Q.Okay.Wouldyougoto,justwhilstweareinE3‐‐

24 A.Sorry,Imissedthat.

25 Q.WhilstweareinE3,couldyouflicktopage700?



73

1 {E/179/700}.Ishouldhavetakenyoutothisrightat

2 thebeginningofmycross‐examinationbutI'mgoingto

3 justcatchupnow.Page700.Doyouseeit?

4 Thisispage5ofthestore'spolicymanual.It

5 startsonpage696.Page696?Youwillseethe

6 document.

7 A.69...?

8 Q.696,StorePolicyManual,page1of54.Doyouseeit?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Andsopage700ispage5ofthatdocument.Soyouhave

11 thecontextofwhereweare?

12 A.Okay.

13 Q.Doyouseethat?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.AndthisissignedoffbyDougPerkinsonpage701,

16 {E/179/701}nothissignaturebuthisname,anditsays

17 thatthecorevalues‐‐doyouseejustabovethefirst

18 holepunchonpage700?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Thecorevaluesarehonesty.Doyouseethat?

21 A.Yes.

22 Q.Hesays:

23 "Wedonotripoffourcustomers."

24 Butpresumablyyouwouldagreethatyoudon'tintend

25 toripoffyourJVpartnerseither?

74

1 A.Correct.

2 Q."Respectforothers:wetrytotreatpeopleaswewould

3 wishtobetreatedourselves."

4 ThatincludesyourJVpartners?

5 A.Itdoes.

6 Q.Sotheconductofsomeofyourstaffhasn'tlivedupto

7 thatinrelationtoMsBirdi.

8 A.Intermsofthecommentsthattheyhavemade,no.

9 Q.Okay:

10 "Partnership:ourobjectiveistomakeourpartners

11 successful."

12 That'sobviouslythepartnerswhoareinfavour,

13 ratherthanthebadeggs.

14 A.Themajorityofourpartnershipsareextremely

15 successful.

16 Q.Yes,quiteright,andthosethatarenotinthemajority

17 arethebageggs?

18 A.No,theonesthataren'tinthemajority,thepeople

19 thatmaybeintheamberorthered,wegivethemlots

20 ofsupporttohelpthemtotryandturnaroundtheir

21 businesses.That'swhywehavetheturnaroundpractice,

22 whichwementionedearlierin‐‐IremembermyLord

23 askingwhatTAPSwas.

24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Canyouexplainamberandred.Isthis

25 somesortofcodebasedonfinancial‐‐

75

1 A.It'sintermsofperformance.Soyou'vegotthegreen

2 storesthatarejustreally,reallydoingreally,really

3 well.Youhavegotthestoresatthebottom,say

4 5percentofthestores,thatarenotaswellaswe

5 wouldwantthemtodo,andthenyouhavegotamassof

6 peopleinthemiddle,becausethere'salotofstores.

7 SoIwouldsay10to15percentatthetop,5percent

8 atthebottomandtherestoftheguysinthemiddle,

9 whoaresomewhereeithermovingupormaybemovingdown,

10 anddoweprovidethemmonitoringandsupport,tomake

11 surethattheyareassuccessfulastheycanbe.

12 MRSTUART:Okay.Page710,August2007.{E/184/710}The

13 Dartfordsalaryreview.Anewmanagerhascomeinat

14 thispoint.DoyourememberMsSlarkhasleftandnow

15 aninternalperson,ImogenCollar,hascomein?

16 A.Correct.

17 Q.Doyouseeon28AugustsheiswritingtoSusannahHart:

18 "Ineedassistanceandauthorisationtodoasalary

19 reviewforthestaffatDartford."

20 IdidaskyouaboutSusannahHartpreviously.What

21 businessofSusannahHart'sisthis?

22 A.Sheisaretailsupportmanager,supportingthefield

23 teams,providingthemwithinformation,dealingwith

24 enquiries,seeingpeopleinSOG,communicatingtothe

25 regionsthattheyareinchargeof,helpingtoprovide

76

1 information,whenwegoonourregionalmeetings,in

2 termsofslides.It'sallaboutsupportingthestores.

3 Q.MsCollarisreportingtoMrMcAlindon.Isthatright?

4 A.That'scorrect.

5 Q.Andsheisseekingauthorisationtodoasalaryreview

6 forthestaff.Wouldthiscomeuptoyou?Andwesee

7 youarecopiedinontheemail‐‐no,youarenot,I'm

8 sorry,youarenotevencopiedinontheemail.

9 A.No,Ihavegotnorecollectionofit.

10 Q.No.Sothisismyquestion:haveyousomehowauthorised

11 MsHarttonow‐‐

12 A.Miss?

13 Q.SusannahHart,orMrsHart,isit?‐‐tosomehownowbe

14 takingdecisionsonbehalfofthestore?

15 A.No.

16 Q.Sowhoisgoingtoauthorisethesalaryreviewifit's

17 notyoupersonally?

18 A.Well,it'snotgoingtobeauthorisedbecauseitwill

19 cometome.Ihavenoideawhatthisis.Ihavenever

20 seenitandneversawanycorrespondenceonit.Soit

21 clearlydidn'tcometomeandthereforedidn'tget

22 authorised.

23 Q.Okay.Sobythistime‐‐weareintolate

24 August2007‐‐you,SOG,haddecided,hadyounot,to

25 exitMsBirdifromthestore,sothatyoucanthen



77

1 carry‐‐

2 A.Idon'tunderstandthecommentthatwehadmade

3 adecisiontoexitMsBirdi.

4 Q.I'mgivingyoutheopportunitytotellthehonesttruth.

5 Bythistimeyou,SOG,hadmadethedecisiontoexit

6 MsBirdifromthestoreandtoeffectoneoftheplans

7 whichIaskedyouaboutatthebeginningoftheday,

8 namelyeithertosellbothsetsofAsharestonewJVPs,

9 ortoenterintosomesortofsharedventure

10 arrangement,ortogogroupventureonthisstoreat

11 Dartford?

12 A.No.

13 Q.Allright.Gotopage711.Doyourecognisethis

14 document?Doyourecognisethisdocument?{E/185/711}

15 A.Specifically?No.

16 Q.Allright.Doyourecognisethetemplateforthis

17 document?

18 A.Ihaveseenthetemplatebefore,yes.

19 Q."Dartford(305)".Isthataninternalcodeforthe

20 storenumberatDartford?

21 A.Ithinkit'sthebranchnumber,yes.

22 Q.Yes:

23 "SharedVentureAssessment."

24 Whichteamthatworkedforyouwouldbeconducting

25 thesharedventureassessment?Whoseteam?

78

1 A.Thesharedventureteam.2 Q.UnderthecontrolofMr...?3 A.Lunn.4 Q.Lunn.Allright.Wehavegotdirector5 SwarandeepBirdi.Tradingdate,1995.Criteria1,6 residentpartner"promise".7 Andthecommentis:8 "DuetoanongoingLossPreventionexercisethereis9 nocurrentpromiseregardingthefuturestructureofthe

10 store.PartnersfromBexleyheathandGravesendhave11 expressedinterestintheopportunitybutnoindication12 hasbeengiven."13 Andthescorethatisthereforeappliedis+2.Do14 youseethat?15 A.Ido.16 Q.Soarewetotakeitfromthat,thatiftheresident17 partnersdonothaveanymoralorlegalpromisetostill18 beinthestore,youapplyapositivescoreindeciding19 whether‐‐20 A.Ihavegotnoidea.Idon'tunderstandtheword21 "promise".Idon'tunderstandthescoringsystem.22 Ihavenotseenthisdocumentuntilyoushowedtome23 today.24 Q.Isee,butyouhaveseenatemplatelikethis‐‐25 A.Ihaveseenthetemplate.

79

1 Q.‐‐withthesecriteriaonitandthewaythescoring2 systemworks;notforthisparticularstorebuttheway3 thesystemworks?4 A.Ihaveseenthesebefore.5 Q.Okay.Number2:6 "ReasonableSOGshareholding."7 Again,ascoreof+2andherewehaveit:8 "100percentofsharesshouldbeavailableoncethe9 LossPreventionsituationhasbeenconcluded."

10 That'sabitpresumptuous,surely,MrDyson?11 A.Well,Idon'tknowwhofilleditin;Idon'tknowwho12 completedit.Theyclearlywerenotaspartofthe13 managementdecisionatmylevelandtherewasnoplan,14 asyousaid,todoanythingotherthantoinvestigateit15 andtofollowitthroughwiththedisciplinary16 procedure.17 Q.Howisitclearlynotpartofthemanagementdecisionat18 yourlevel?Howisitclearlythat?Howdoweknow19 whosemanagementdecisionsareinthisandatwhat20 level?21 A.Itellyou,it'snotmymanagementdecision.Ihavenot22 seenthisbefore.Iwasnotpartytoitandithasno23 bearingonthedecisionsthatImade.24 Q.Themanwhoreportstoyou,MrLunn?25 A.Hedoesn'treporttome.Heworksinateamthat‐‐he

80

1 reportstoJillClark,whoreportstome.

2 Q.Yes.Someonehasgottheimpressionthat:

3 "100percentofsharesshouldbeavailableoncethe

4 LossPreventionsituationhasbeenconcluded.This

5 shouldgiveSOSsufficientscopetoattractabuyer."

6 Doyouseethat?

7 A.Ido.

8 Q.Someoneseemstobepresumingthattheoutcomeofthe

9 investigation,theLossPreventionsituation,willbe

10 thatMsBirdi'sshareswillbetransferredtoyou,to

11 SOS.Someone?

12 A.Someone,butnotme.

13 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatitwaswiththe

14 knowledgeofyourentiredepartmentandtheirviewof

15 theDartfordsituationatthistime.

16 A.No,that'snottrue.

17 Q.Anyway,thatgotascoreof+2forwhateverisbeing

18 planned.Shallwejustskipdowntotheconclusion‐‐

19 no,let'sgoto9,"Professionalavailability":

20 "TheSouthEastisanareawhereourexistingShared

21 Venturestores(BexleyheathandBromley)experience

22 difficultiesinsecuringconsistentOOcover."

23 MsBirdiistheOOhere,isn'tshe?

24 A.Hm‐mm.

25 Q."AfocusedOOdirectorwillgreatlybenefitthis



81

1 business."2 Sowhoeverhaswrittenthisseemstotaketheview3 thatMsBirdiisnotgoingtobethere,doesn'theor4 she?5 A.Theyarecertainlymakingasuggestionofthat,yes.6 Q.Anassumptionratherthanasuggestion,isn'tit?This7 isassumingthatMsBirdiisnotgoingtobethere?8 A.LikeIsay,I'vegotno‐‐Idon'tknowanythingabout9 this.It'sthefirsttimeI'veseenitandIdon'tknow

10 whowroteit.11 Q.Okay.Butitwouldhavebeensomebodyintheshared12 venturedepartmentandthatdepartmentreportstoyou?13 A.Thedepartmentreportsdirectly‐‐notdirectly,but14 indirectlythroughJillClark.15 Q.Okay.Let'sgotothetotalscorebit.+6:16 "Thesharedventureassessmentofthisopportunity17 isconservativelypositive.Theissueofopthalmic18 coverhasaffectedtheoverSVstoresintheareaand19 Iwouldexpectthatintheshorttermthiswouldapply20 toDartford,astheyhaveonerelativelyinexperienced21 employedOO.22 "IwouldrecommendthatweinitiallyattractanOO23 JVP..."24 Doyouseethat?25 A.Ido.

82

1 Q.It'sabitharshonMsBirdi,isn'tit?

2 A.Icanonlysayagain,Ihaven'tseenthisbefore.I've

3 nevermadeanydecisionsbasedonthisassessmentand

4 norwasthefactthatMsBirdididleaveeverareality.

5 So‐‐Iknowit'sthereandIknowthatyouaretaking

6 methroughit,butIhavegotnoknowledgeofthis

7 report,noranyinputintoit.

8 Q.Okay:

9 "Insummary,theDartfordstoreisagoodcomparison

10 tothepotentialturnaroundoftheWeymouthstore.

11 Previousperformancewasquestionable,andasingleOO

12 Directorona60/40splitwasintroduced."

13 Doyouseethat?

14 A.Ido.

15 Q."(Asacontingency,IknowthatboththeGravesendstore

16 PartnersandtheBexleyheathstorePartnerare

17 interestedinbuyingintothisstore,withGravesend

18 beingthepreferredoptionfromthesetwo.)"

19 Whocouldpossiblyhavehadthatknowledgeandbe

20 givingthatview?

21 A.What,theknowledgeofthisdocument?

22 Q.Yes,who‐‐

23 A.I'vegotnoideawhowrotethis‐‐

24 Q.WhoknewthattheGravesendandBexleyheathpartners

25 wereinterestedandwhowasabletosaythatthe

83

1 Gravesendpartnerswerethepreferredoptionfromthose

2 two?

3 A.Couldyourepeatthequestion,MrStuart,because‐‐

4 Q.Yes,whowithinyourvariousdepartments‐‐whowould

5 havetheknowledgethattheGravesendstorepartnersand

6 theBexleyheathstorepartnerswereinterestedinbuying

7 intothisstore,andwhowould‐‐

8 A.Idon'tknowaboutBexleyheathbutIwasawarethatthe

9 Gravesendpartners‐‐whenMrPatelhadputhisshares

10 onsalepriortousfindingoutthathehadbeen

11 fraudulent,hadmadesomecontactwithMichaelMoore.

12 That'stheonlyknowledgethatI'vegot.

13 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatMrLunn,whoisin

14 chargeofthesharedventureelementhere‐‐I'mgoing

15 tosuggesttoyouthatitwashimandthathediscussed

16 thiswithyouatthetime?

17 A.I'vegotnorecollectionofthat.

18 Q.Okay.Gotopage714.{E/187/714}

19 MrLunnonthatveryday,31August‐‐

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whenyousayonthatveryday,isthe

21 documentatpage711dated?

22 MRSTUART:YourLordshipisright.It'snotonitsface

23 dated.Ihavegotthatinformationfromthemetadata.

24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ifit'sdisputed‐‐

25 MRSTUART:Idon'tknowwhetherit'sdisputed.Ithasbeen

84

1 putintothisagreedbundleatthispoint.SoIthink

2 it'sagreedthatitisdatedsomewherebetween

3 28August,whichispage710‐5,{E/184.2/710.5}and

4 31August,whichispage712.{E/186/712}

5 MRJUSTICENUGEE:It'snotlistedintheindexwithadate.

6 Couldyouclarifywiththoseontheothersideasto

7 whetherthereisanydisputeastowhatthemetadata

8 shows?

9 MRSTUART:Yes.


11 MRSTUART:So,MrDyson,justforthemomentwewill

12 presume‐‐butit'sonlyapresumption‐‐thatthisis

13 datedaroundtheendofAugust2007.AndI'msuggesting

14 toyouthatyoudiscussedDartfordwiththeshared

15 ventureman,MrLunn,atthatverytime,asevidencedon

16 page714,whereMrLunnisemailingMrMcAlindonat4.15

17 intheafternoonof31Augustandhesays:{E/187/714}

18 "Subject:Dartford.

19 "HiMel.

20 "IhavecaughtupwithDerekregardingDartford..."

21 Doyousee?

22 A.Yes.

23 Q.WehavetheintroductionofMrMcLaughlin:

24 "Asthestoreiscurrently(technically)aShared

25 Venture,andlikelytobecomeaGroupVenture..."



85

1 Doyouseethat?2 A.Iseethat.3 Q."Asthestoreiscurrently(technically)aShared4 Venture,andlikelytobecomeaGroupVenture..."5 Thatcommentisentirelyconsistentwiththeshared6 ventureassessment,isn'tit?7 A.Idon'tseetheconnection,but‐‐justgiveme8 asecond.9 Q.AgroupventureisoneinwhichSpecsaversownsthe

10 Ashares,isn'tit?Ownsalltheshares?11 A.Correct.12 Q.AndthedocumentItookyoutoatpage711‐‐Itookyou13 totheentrieswhichsaid‐‐{E/185/711}14 A.Yes.15 Q."100percentofsharesshouldbeavailableoncethe16 LossPreventionsituationhasbeenconcluded.This17 shouldgiveSOSsufficientscopetoattract..."18 Etcetera,etcetera.Doyouseethat?19 A.Ido.20 Q.ItwouldappearthatMrLunn,atleast,thoughtthatas21 at31August2007,thestorewastechnicallyashared22 venturebutlikelytobecomeagroupventure.Thatis23 aventurewhereyouownalltheshares?24 A.That'swhathesaid.25 Q.Andhesaidthatafterhavingcaughtupwithyou.Do

86

1 youremembertheconversationwithMrLunn?

2 A.No,Idon't.

3 Q.Doyouhaveanynotesoftheconversation?

4 A.No.

5 Q.Anyway,hesays:{E/187/714}

6 "...untilwefindaprospectivePartnerIwould

7 liketodiscusstheLossPreventionchargesbeing

8 appliedtothestore,astheywilleffectivelybe

9 reducingSOGincomeaswearetheshareholder."

10 Doyouseethat?

11 A.Ido,yes.

12 Q.Surely,reducingMsBirdi'sincomealso,assheis

13 ashareholder?It'syourcapacityasAshareholderthat

14 heistalkingaboutthere,isn'tit,becauseas

15 Bshareholderyouarenotentitledtoanyprofits,are

16 you?

17 A.No,that'snotthewaythatthepartnershipworks.

18 Q.Yes.Soit's:

19 "...theLossPreventionchargesbeingappliedto

20 thisstore,astheywilleffectivelybereducingtheSOG

21 incomeaswearetheshareholder."

22 Thatis,"Wearethepresentsharedventure

23 Ashareholder".That'sright,isn'tit?

24 A.YoucouldtakethatinterpretationfromwhatMrLunnhas

25 written.

87

1 Q.Right.Giventhatyousaythatthe£440rateisafixed

2 rate,agreedfiveyearsearlierandappliesto

3 absolutelyeverystore,thereisnoneedtohave

4 adiscussionaboutthecharges,isthere?

5 A.Whenyousaythereisnoneedtohaveadiscussionabout

6 thecharges...?

7 Q.What'stodiscuss?

8 A.I'venoidea.Ididn'twritetheemailandI'venever

9 seenitbefore.

10 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatwhat'stodiscussis

11 thelevelofchargesthataregoingtobeappliedto

12 thisstore?

13 A.Well,thelevelofchargesappliedtothestoreis£440

14 aday.I'mveryclearonthat.

15 Q.I'msuggestingtoyouthatthat'snotright.Thereis

16 nofixedbasisforthat.Thereisnoevidentialbasis

17 foritandyoucanchargewhateveryoulike?

18 A.Idon'tknowwhatyouaresaying,MrStuart.Doyou

19 wantto‐‐

20 Q.I'msayingthatyoufixedtherateat£440because

21 MrMcAlindonwantstocharge£440?

22 A.No,wesetablendedrateawaybackwiththeboard,as

23 Isaid,somewherearound2002.Thatwastheratethat

24 wesignedupto.That'stheratethathasbeenapplied

25 toeveryotherinvestigationandsupportthatwehave

88

1 doneinstores,anditwastheratethatweagreedat2 theboard.Andit'snotaquestionofjustmakingup3 numberstochargestores.4 Q.Yousee,whatMrLunnthensaysis‐‐becausethisis5 nowoneofhisstores,yousee,soheiseffectively6 havingtooverseetheprofitabilityofitfromthe7 perspectiveofasharedventureshareholding.Hesays:8 {E/187/714}9 "CanwepleaseagreethatSeanMcLaughlincharges

10 thestoredirectlyforhisdays..."11 No£440forMrMcAlindon'sdepartment;just£200for12 MrMcLaughlin.Doyousee?13 A.Yes,butthisisnotunderhiscontrolormanagement14 untilsuchtimeastheinvestigationandthe15 disciplinaryhadbeencompleted.16 Q.Right.So,what,youaresayingthatthestoreisabout17 tocomeunderMrLunn'scontrolnow?18 A.MrLunnlooksafterthosestoresinthebusinessthat19 arestrategicallysharedventure,ortheyaretemporary20 sharedventure,or,onsomeoccasions,wherestores21 becomegroupventure,alldependingonwhatactivities22 aregoingonandtheshareholdingarrangementswith23 partners.24 MrLunnhere,fromwhatIcansee‐‐and,again,I'm25 interpretingwhatI'mseeinghere‐‐attheendofthe



89

1 investigationandthedisciplinary,thisstorewillthen

2 nolongerbemanagedgoingforwardonemergencycover

3 becauseanoutcomewillhavebeenagreedandhewillbe

4 theninvolvedwiththestore.That'sthewaythat

5 IsortofinterpretwhatI'mreading.

6 Q.Whatitappearstosayisthatheistryingtoagree

7 thatMrMcLaughlin'schargesaregoingtobecharged

8 directtothestore,sowithoutMrMcAlindon'smark‐up;

9 thatappearstobewhatheisseeking?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Soastoreducethechargestothestore.Andthenhe

12 says:

13 "Ihaven'tdiscussedthetopicofchargeswith

14 DD..."

15 Thatwouldbeyou,wouldn'tit?"DD"isyou?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q."...butasDartfordiscurrentlyrunningata£16Kloss

18 fortheyear,everylittlehelps."

19 Soitdoesappearthattheamountofchargingfor

20 thesemanagerstothestoreisamatterthatcanbe

21 discussedwithyou,withMrMcAlindon,withother

22 membersoftheSpecsaversteam?

23 A.Anythingcanbediscussed.

24 Q.Whywasn'titdiscussedwithMsBirdi,theAshareholder

25 andAdirector?

90

1 A.IthinkI'vesaidit;I'llsayitagain:MsBirdiwas

2 suspended.Shewasthesubjectofaninvestigationand,

3 potentially,disciplinaryaction,andatthattimeshe

4 wassuspendedofherdutiesaswellasheremployment

5 duringthatperiod.

6 Q.Allright.IfyouputawayE3andgotoE4,page802,

7 ifyoucanpickuptheemailcorrespondence.

8 {E/191/802}MrMcAlindonnowwritestoMrLunnandto

9 you;doyouseethat?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Thenextday,aSaturday,andsays:

12 "Derek."

13 Soheisreallyaddressingittoyoubutheis

14 showingMrLunnwhatheisdoing:

15 "IamcurrentlychargingDartfordtheequivalentof

16 £440adayformanagementfees.Asyouareaware,two

17 reasons.First,anincomestreamforthedept..."

18 That'shisdepartment,isn'tit,theLossPrevention

19 department?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q."Secondandmoreimportant,becauseoftheshare

22 value‐‐themorethestoreischarged,thelowerthe

23 value."

24 Whathedoesn'tsaythere,MrDyson,is,"I'm

25 currentlychargingDartfordtheequivalentof£440aday

91

1 formanagementfees.Asyouareaware,onereason,

2 that'sthefixedfeeforeverystore."

3 Hedoesn'tmentionthat,doeshe?

4 A.No.

5 Q.No.

6 A.Butwhywouldhe?

7 Q.Whywouldhe?Youarequiteright,whywouldhe,since

8 thatisnotthelegitimatereasonforthesecharges.

9 Thelegitimatereasonissetoutby‐‐

10 A.No,thelegitimate‐‐thelegitimatereasonforthese

11 chargesisthatthatistheratethatweagreedatthe

12 boardthatMrMcAlindonwouldcharge.Heisentitledto

13 chargeforthemandrecover‐‐andrecoverthe‐‐the

14 incomeforhisdepartment,andheismakingthepoint

15 thatifhedoesn'tchargeforthem,thepositionofthe

16 storewillnotbethecorrectpositionbecauseitwill

17 nothavebeenchargedappropriately.

18 Q.Hedoesn'tmakethatpoint.

19 A.Well,that'sthewaythatIreadit.

20 Q.Where?I'llreadoutthewordstoyou.Itsays:

21 "Secondandmoreimportant,becauseoftheshare

22 value‐themorethestoreischarged,thelowerthe

23 value.Doyouwantme‐‐"

24 A.That'sexactlywhatIhavejustsaid,MrStuart,and

25 thatis,heissaying,"IfIdon'tchargethestore,

92

1 thenthefinancialpositionofthestorewillbe

2 incorrectandthereforeanycalculationontheshare

3 valuewillbeincorrect".

4 Q.Wheredoeshesayanythingaboutincorrect?

5 A."...themorethestoreischarged,thelowerthe

6 value."

7 Q.Yes,soifwechargeit£800aday,theshareswillbe

8 worthevenless?

9 A.No,he'snotsuggestingthat.He'ssaying‐‐he's

10 suggestingcarriesonchargingat£440adaybecausehe

11 isentitledtochargethatbecausehe'sprovidingthe

12 emergencycover.

13 Q."Doyouwantmetocontinuecharginguntilacompromise

14 agreementhasbeenagreed..."

15 ThatwouldbeacompromisewithMsBirdi,alathe

16 compromiseagreementwithMrPatel;isthatright?Is

17 thathowyouunderstoodit?

18 A.Ihadn'tthoughtaboutthatuntilyou'vejustraisedit

19 now.

20 Q.Wouldyouagreewithmethatthat'showitreads:

21 "Doyouwantmetocontinueuntilacompromise

22 agreementhasbeenagreed..."

23 A.Ican'tsayyesorno.Iseethepointthatyouare

24 making.

25 Q.Okay:



93

1 "...disciplinaryprocesscompleted..."

2 ThatmustbeMsBirdi.Sheistheonlyperson

3 subjecttodisciplinaryprocess,isn'tshe?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.SothatisareferencetoMsBirdi?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q."...and/orallsharesarebought..."

8 Now,youalreadyownalltheBsharesandMrPatel's

9 Ashares,sotheonlybuyingofsharesishershares,

10 isn'tit?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Sothat'sareferencetohershares?

13 A.Itwouldseemso,yes.

14 Q."...orstopchargingtoimprovestoreperformance?"

15 SoitdoesappearthatMrMcAlindon,atleast,

16 believesthatthereisaconnectionbetweencharging

17 thesefeesandacompromiseagreementthat'sgoingtobe

18 reachedwithMsBirdi,oradisciplinaryprocessthat's

19 goingtobecompletedagainstMsBirdi,orthepurchase

20 ofMsBirdi'sshares?

21 A.No,IthinkMrMcAlindonisrespondingtothefactof

22 theemailbelowwhereNeilLunn,whoisaveryfocused

23 andstructuredindividual,whowantstohelpthestores

24 particularly,youknow,tobecomeverysuccessful,heis

25 talkingaboutthis£16,000‐‐£16,000ofloss,and

94

1 MrMcAlindonisrespondingtothatbysayingtome,

2 "Whatdoyouwantmetodo?Doyouwantmeto‐‐I'm

3 entitledtoitandIshouldbechargingit.IfIdon't

4 chargeforit,thenthestorefinancialpositionwill

5 notbecorrect,thereforethesharevaluewillbe

6 incorrect.OrdoyouwantmetorespondtoNeilanddo

7 youwantmetostartcharging‐‐stopchargingto

8 improvethestoreperformance?"

9 That'sthewaythatIinterpretedthatemail.

10 Q.Well,Isuggesttoyouthattheplanwasclearlyin

11 placebythisstagethatyou,SOG,weregoingtoacquire

12 MsBirdi'ssharesbyoneformoranother;youweregoing

13 toexitherfromthebusinessandthenyouweregoingto

14 decidewhatyouweregoingtodowiththoseshares.

15 Thatwastheplan?

16 A.No,that'snotanyplan.That'snotwhat'sgoingon.

17 Q.Theplanwasbythispointthatyou,SOG,wouldhave

18 100percentoftheshares,atsomepointinthenear

19 future?

20 A.No.Idon'tagreewiththat.

21 Q.Well,thatdoesn'tseemtobehowMrMcAlindonand

22 MrLunnunderstoodyourpositionatthetime,becauseif

23 youflickoveronepagetopage803?

24 A.803?

25 Q.803.{E/192/803}YouwillseethatMrLunnthenemails

95

1 MrMcAlindonontheTuesdayandheisfollowingthe

2 chainfromtheemailIhavejusttakenyoutoandhe

3 says:

4 "HiMel.

5 IunderstandfromDerek..."

6 Thatmustbeyou,mustn'tit?

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.Therearen'ttwoDereksinthisorganisation,arethere?

9 A.No.

10 Q.No:

11 "IunderstandfromDerekthatatthepointwhereSOG

12 own100percentofthesharesthattheLossPrevention

13 involvementwillcease..."

14 Sotheplanisforyoutoacquire100percentof

15 thesharesand:

16 "...theLossPreventioninvolvementwillceaseand

17 [MrLunn's]involvementwillcommence,thereforeleaving

18 thechargingarrangementswithme."

19 Thatwasyourplan,wasn'tit?

20 A.No.

21 Q.Itmustbe,MrDyson,giventhat.Now,perhapsyoucan

22 recall,nowthatyouseethisemail‐‐

23 A.No.Ididn'tgetemailed/copiedonthisandIdon't

24 haveanyrecollectionofanyconversationwithMrLunn.

25 Idon'tknowwhyhehaswrittenit.Therewasnoplan.

96

1 Iwaswaitingfordueprocesstobecarriedoutand2 MrRainestocompletethe‐‐theinvestigationtobe3 completedandMrRainestodecidewhattheoutcomeof4 thatinvestigationwasthroughthedisciplinaryprocess.5 Q.IsuggesttoyouthatallthedocumentsIhavejust6 takenyoutoshowyouthatMrLunnandhisdepartment7 hadbeentaskedwithassessingwhetherthisstorewould8 beagoodstoreforyoutotakein‐houseonagroup9 basisorasharedventurebasis;thatyouhadhad

10 adiscussionwithhimshortlyonorbefore31August,11 andthatMrLunniscorrectlyrecordingyour12 instructionstohim,whicharethatatthepointwhere13 SOGown100percentoftheshares,this,thatandthe14 otherisgoingtohappen,becausethatwasyourplan?15 A.Iabsolutelydonotagreewiththatpointthatyou've16 justmade.17 Q.Allright.Finally,onthissharedventurepositionat18 thisstage,canyoujustgotopage934inthisbundle?19 {E/230/934}20 A.934?Partwaythroughaletter?21 Q.Partwaythroughaletter;quiteright.Sothisis22 aletter,932,{E/230/932}fromCristinadelGraziato23 MrArtley,whoisMsBirdi'ssolicitor;okay?24 October2007.25 At934,justabovethesecondholepunch‐‐MsBirdi



97

1 wastakentothisincross‐examination.Doyousee,it2 says:{E/230/934}3 "MrPatel'sdeparturefromthebusinesshasresulted4 inSOGholding50percentofthe'A'shares."5 Justabovethesecondholepunch,theparagraph6 starting:7 "MrPatel'sdeparture..."8 A.Idon'tseethat.9 Q.Secondholepunch.Justbelowthehalfwayonthepage?

10 A.Sorry,Iwasatthetopholepunch.11 Q.That'sallright.That'sfine.Doyouhaveit?12 A.I'vegotthat,yes.13 Q."MrPatel'sdeparturefromthebusinesshasresultedin14 SOGholding50percentofthe'A'shares.The15 expression'sharedventure'isusedinternallywithin16 theSpecsaversgrouptodescribeasituationsuchas17 Dartford'swhereSOGholds'A'sharesand,therefore,18 sharesintheprofitsofthebusiness..."19 Doyouseethat?20 A.Yes.21 Q.ButMrDyson,ifyouaresayingthat,"Right,wearethe22 Ashareholderandweshareintheprofitsofthe23 business";yes?24 A.Yes.25 Q.Youcan'talsochargethebusiness£120,000‐‐

98

1 A.Butwehaven'ttakenanyprofits,becausethereareno

2 profits.

3 Q.Well,alloftheprofitsofthebusinesshavegoneout

4 inpaymentstoyourLossPreventiondepartment.Wehave

5 seenthatfromMrLunn.

6 A.Ifwehadn'thaveprovidedthecover,thentherewould

7 havebeenalotmoreproblemswiththestore.

8 Q.Ifyouwanttoprovidethecover,that'samatterfor

9 you.AsAshareholder,youdowhatyouwanttodoto

10 protectyourshareintheprofits.That'swhat'sbeing

11 saidhere.Butwhatgivesyoutherighttochargefor

12 that?

13 A.IthinkIhavealreadyansweredthatearlierandthatis

14 thatalltheday‐to‐daycostsofrunningthestoreare

15 tobebornebythestore.Ismyunderstanding.

16 Q.Okay.Doyousee,itgoeson:

17 "GivenMsBirdi'srecentconductandtheoutcomeof

18 thedisciplinaryhearingheldon20September..."

19 Doyouseethat?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q."...SOGdoesnotdeemitappropriateatthistimeto

22 makeanyfirmplansregardingthefuturestructureof

23 theDartfordbusiness."

24 Doyouseethat?

25 A.Ido.

99

1 Q.Whatdoesthatmean?YoupersonallywereSOGforthese

2 purposes,weren'tyou?Youwerethemanmakingthese

3 decisions?

4 A.Letmereadthecontext,inwherethishascomefrom.

5 (Pause)

6 Okay.

7 Q.So,itisyou,isn'tit,whoismakingthesedecisions?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.It'snotDameMaryPerkins,or‐‐

10 A.No,no.

11 Q.It'sjustyou.Sowhatdoyoumeanbythat?

12 A.Ithinkwhatitsaysinthere.Youknow,wehavejust

13 gonethroughaverylong,protractedinvestigationand

14 disciplinary,andwe‐‐beforewegomakinganyplans

15 aboutthatfuturestructure,it'stimetoreflecton

16 whatthebestnextstepsare.

17 Q.Sowhatpossiblestructureswerethere?

18 A.Ithinkwearejustmakingastatementthatwearenot

19 goingtoberushedintomakingdecisionsbasedon‐‐

20 Idon'tknowifthere'saquestionaskedandthisiswhy

21 ithasbeenrespondedto,butMsdelGraziaisjust

22 saying,"Wehaven'tmadeadecision".

23 Wehaven'tmadeadecision.

24 Q.Okay.Ataroundthistime,thedisciplinarydecision

25 wasbeingmade,asyouknow,asrecordedthere.Canyou

100

1 justgobacktoalittlerunofemailsinvolvingyou;it2 startsatpage870.{E/211/870}3 A.Yes.4 Q.MrMcAlindonisemailingyou:5 "Derek.6 "Ihaveacoupleofoutstandinginvoices:7 "Dartford‐£14,781.25.8 "Thisexcludesthe£8,800managementcoststhatare9 beingchargedmonthlyandispurelytheinvestigation

10 costs...Doyouwantthisinvoicingbeforeany11 discussionstakeplaceresharevaluations?"12 Doyouseethat?870;doyouseeit?13 A.Yes.14 Q.Sohowdoesthatwork,MrDyson?Whatarethe15 discussionsresharevaluations?16 A.Ihavegotnoidea.17 Q.Allright.Soyoudon'tthinkthatMrMcAlindonandyou18 werediscussingthismatter,Dartfordandwhat‐‐19 A.You'vetakenmetoit,you'veaskedmewhatisthat20 about.Ihavegotnoideawhatthatisabout.21 Q.Wouldyouagreewithmethatitappears,onthefaceof22 it,tobelinkingthequestionofputtingcharges23 againsttheDartfordstore‐‐linkingthattothe24 discussionsthatmighttakeplaceresharevaluations?25 A.Whatitsaysisthathehasgotacoupleofoutstanding



101

1 invoicesforDartfordtotalling£14,700.2 Q.Yes?3 A.Andthatdoesn'tinclude£8,800managementcoststhat4 werecharged.That'swhatitsays.5 Q.Whathasthatgottodowithsharevaluation?6 A.I'vegotnoidea.7 Q.Anyway,youdidn'trespond,saying,"Ihavegotnoidea8 whatyouaretalkingabout,Mel".Yourespondedat9 page872toMelfromyourPA'semailaddress,butyou

10 signoff,"Regards,Derek":{E/213/872}11 "Mel.12 "Dartford‐putthroughthefirstchargenow13 (Nimesh)."14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Yes.16 Q."Waitforoutcomeofdisciplinarybeforeissuing2nd17 phase."18 What'sthatallabout?19 A.Well,hehasaskedabouttwo‐‐twolotsofmoney.One20 isaboutthemanagementcosts.21 Q.Hm‐mm?22 A.Andtheotheroneisaboutcoststhatappeartobe‐‐to23 dowithNimesh.24 Q.Hm‐mm.Yes,butwhathehasaskedforis:25 "Doyouwanttheinvoicingbeforeanydiscussions

102

1 takeplaceresharevaluations?"{E/211/870}

2 Andyouranswerisnot,"Idon'tknowwhatshare

3 valuationsyouaretalkingabout,Mel";youransweris:

4 "...putthroughthefirstchargenow...waitfor

5 theoutcomeofthedisciplinarybeforeissuing2nd

6 phase."

7 A.Ican't‐‐Ican'trecollectexactlywhatwasthe

8 thoughtsinmymind.Butwhatmyinterpretationis,is

9 he'sowedmoneywithregardstoDartford.Oneistodo

10 withNimeshandoneistodowithmanagementcoststhat

11 arebeingchargedmonthly.

12 Q.WereyouincontactwithMrRainesabouthis

13 investigation?

14 A.No.

15 Q.Notatall?Weren'tyouinterestedtoknowwhathis

16 findingsweregoingtobe?

17 A.No,notuntiltheinvestigationandthedisciplinaryhad

18 completed.

19 Q.Okay.

20 MyLord,Icanseeit's1o'clock?

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.2o'clock.I'llremindyounotto

22 speaktoanyone.

23 (1.02pm)

24 (Theshortadjournment)

25 (2.00pm)

103

1 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,MrStuart.2 MRSTUART:MrDyson,whichbundleshaveyougot‐‐3 A.E4andB1.4 Q.YoucanputawayE4;I'vefinishedwiththat.D1you5 canputawaybecauseIhavefinishedwiththat.6 CouldyoubepassedE5.DoyouhaveE5?7 A.Notyet.8 Q.E5,please.Allright.9 E5startsinNovember2007‐‐doyousee,

10 page1073‐‐withMrPerkins'investigationintothe‐‐11 doyouseethatletter?{E/264/1073}12 A.Yes.13 Q.SoMsBirdihadbeengivensomedisciplinarysanctions14 inOctober2007‐‐doyouremember‐‐byMrRaines's15 decision.Andshewasappealingthat,wasn'tshe?16 A.Iunderstandso,yes.17 Q.You,presumably,werenotinvolvedatallinanyof18 that?19 A.No.20 Q.Andthat'swhyyoudon'tmentionanyofitinyour21 statement?22 A.That'scorrect.23 Q.That'sfine.24 Inparagraph66ofyourstatement,{C/9/103}yousay25 shegotafinalwrittenwarning;yes?

104

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.Andshehadgotafinalwrittenwarningforhaving

3 incompleteormissingdocuments.Doyouremember;that

4 relatedtothedocumentsrelatingtoherfather,her

5 father'semployment,andherhusband'semployment.

6 Forbreachesofemploymentregulations;again,no

7 contractofemployment,etcetera.

8 Fortreatingherfamilymembersdifferentlytoother

9 membersofstaff.

10 Fornotfollowingthecorrectproceduresinrelation

11 tothePolishworkers'workonthe‐‐

12 A.Correct.

13 Q.Andinsummary,fornotbeingtransparentinthe

14 treatmentofstaff.

15 That,insummary,iswhatshewasdisciplinedfor;

16 youwouldagreewiththat?

17 A.Iwouldagreewiththat.

18 Q.ShewasnotdisciplinedfortheallegationthatMrPatel

19 hadmade‐‐theoriginalPatelallegation‐‐ofpaying

20 MrRehmanlargesumsofmoneyfordoingnowork

21 whatsoever.Shewasnotdisciplinedforthat,wasshe?

22 A.No,itwasn'tproven.

23 Q.That'sright.Inyourparagraph66‐‐andattheendof

24 yourstatement,indeed‐‐{C/9/103}youmakethepoint

25 thatshecouldhavebeendismissedin2007.Thisis



105

1 whenyougettotheendofitallandyouaresuggesting2 thatit'snotcorrecttosaythatyouhadalong‐term3 plantogetridofher,andoneoftheexamplesyougive4 isthatyousayMrRainescouldhavedismissedherin5 2007?6 A.Yes.7 Q.Butisthatright?Forthosesortsoflevelsof8 misconduct,ienothavingtherightpaperworkinplace9 andusingasupplier,onesupplier,whoisnotonthe

10 listofapprovedSpecsaverssuppliers,onone‐‐11 A.UsingPolishbuilderswhoarenot‐‐notjustnot12 suppliers;theyhavenotgotanycredentialswhatsoever,13 sofarasIcouldsee.Sotheissuesofhealthand14 safety,theissuesofinsurance,theissuesofpeople15 gettinginjured,perhaps.Sothat'squiteserious.16 Q.Butitwasahistoricissue,wasn'tit?Ithad17 happened?18 A.Yes.19 Q.Ithadhappened.Nohealthandsafetyissuehadarisen?20 A.No.21 Q.Nobodyhadfallendownthe...etcetera.22 AreyouseriouslysuggestingthatanyJVPwhose23 paperworkwasn'tquiteinorderinrelationtosomeof24 theirstaffandwhohadononeoccasionused25 anon‐approvedsupplier‐‐areyouseriouslysayingthat

106

1 thatwouldresult‐‐

2 A.Itwasn'tthosetwothings,therewasfourthingsthat

3 yousaidandIthink,collectively,thosethingswould

4 andcouldamounttogrossmisconduct,andMrRaines

5 couldhaveformedtheopinionitwasgrossmisconduct

6 andhecouldhavedismissedher.

7 Q.IgaveyoufivethingsasperMrRaines'saccount,but

8 fourofthosefivethingsrelatedtothesamething,

9 namelythelackofpaperwork,lackofcontractof

10 employment,lackoftransparency,asitwasput,lackof

11 employmentregulationsdocuments‐‐theyallrelatedto

12 thesamething,namelytheemploymentofherfatherand

13 herhusband?

14 A.AndMrsPatel,Ithink,aswell.

15 Q.AndofcourseMrsPatel,youarequiteright;yes.

16 AreyousayingthataJVPwhodoesn'tgettheir

17 paperworkinorderinrelationtotheemploymentof

18 afamilymember,forexample,andwhousesnon‐approved

19 suppliersononeoccasion‐‐areyouseriouslysaying

20 thatforafirstoffence,that'sdismissal?

21 A.Itcouldhaveaccountedforgrossmisconduct,yes.

22 Q.Allright.Canweflickoninyourstatementto

23 paragraph73.{C/9/105}Thisisjustfinalisingwhat

24 Iwasdealingwithjustbeforelunch.Yousetoutthese

25 coststhatyouhaveapplied?

107

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.SoyouhavegottheLossPreventionemergencymanagement

3 costsandthenyouhavegottheotherLossPrevention

4 investigationcosts.And(e)thedisciplinarycostsas

5 well.Allofthosethings?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Andthewayyouputitthere,yousay,73:

8 "...thefollowingcostswereincurredbySOS..."

9 "Incurred".Soyouseemto,there,betryingto

10 assertthatSOSincurredacost,iegotchargedby

11 somebodyforacost,andthenpassedthatontothe

12 storecompany.Isthatright?Thatiswhatyouare

13 tryingtosaybytheuseoftheword"incurred"?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Right.Sotheseemergencymanagementcovers,theactual

16 costincurredbySOSwassurelyonlythe£400plus

17 expensesthatMsSlarkwaschargingandthenthemuch

18 lower£200thatMrMcLaughlinlaterwascharging,andno

19 chargeincurredbySOSforitsowninternalpeople?SOS

20 didn'tincuranysuchcosts,didit?

21 A.Ithinkthatwedidincurcostsbecausewehadtocover

22 theemergencymanagementcover.Wehadtopayforthose

23 peoplethatwereprovidingtheleadershipinthestore.

24 Q.I'magreeingwithyouthattotheextentthatSOS

25 incurredthecostof,forexample,MrMcLaughlin,he

108

1 chargedyou£200aday,allright?That'sacost

2 incurred.MrMcLaughlinischarging£200anhour.

3 That'sacostofMrMcLaughlinincurred.

4 MrMcLaughlincharges£200anhour[sic],butyou,

5 SOS,chargethestore£400anhour[sic],forexample,

6 or£440,foraperiodoftimewhenallthat

7 MrMcAlindon'sdepartmentisdoing‐‐I'mtalkingabout

8 theMcLaughlinperiod‐‐allthatSOSaredoingatthat

9 timeishavingthemaninthestore?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Thereisnomoreinvestigationgoingon,isthere?

12 A.No,becauseit'semergencymanagementcoverandcharged

13 at£440,whichistheratewhichMrMcAlindoncharges

14 forhisservices.

15 Q.Doyouunderstandthedifferencebetweencharging

16 somethingandincurringit?

17 A.Iunderstandthedifference,yes.

18 Q.Sowouldyouagreewithmethat£65,120wasn'tincurred;

19 it'swhatwascharged?

20 A.Correct.

21 Q.Okay.Similarly,theinvestigationintoMsBirdi,

22 £6,943.75;yes?

23 A.Correct.

24 Q.Apartfromanycamerawork‐‐andI'mnotsureyouwould

25 have‐‐yousurelywouldn'tbeputtingcamerasin,in



109

1 relationtoMsBirdi?

2 A.No.

3 Q.Sothe£6,943incurredbytheLossPrevention

4 department,that'sactuallychargesoftheLoss

5 Preventiondepartment,which‐‐

6 A.Chargingfortheservicesattherate;correct.

7 Q.Whichyouarechargingtothestore,notsomethingthat

8 youareincurringasachargeyourself,SOS?

9 A.Igetthepointthatyouaremaking.

10 Q.Youwouldagreewithme?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Good.AndIsuppose(e),youwouldsaythatsomeofthe

13 accommodationandtravelexpenseswereincurred‐‐

14 becauseiftherewasatrainticketandyouhavepaid

15 forit,thenyouhaveincurredthatcost;isthatright?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.That'swhatyouhaveincurred.Butfeesfor

18 MrHamilton,theretaildevelopmentconsultant,

19 MrRaines,MrRowe,DominicSavill‐‐

20 A.Wehaveincurredcoststherebecausewehavetopay

21 theirsalaries.

22 Q.Isthatwhatyouaresaying:salariesofMrHamilton‐‐

23 A.No,I'mjustsaying‐‐I'mjustsayingtherewillbe‐‐

24 insideofthatcharge,therewillbecostsforusto

25 provideallofthosethingsthataresaidthere,sothey

110

1 wouldbeincurredtous.

2 Q.Andyouthinkyouareentitledtopassonyourstaff

3 salariestothestorecompany?

4 A.Ithinkweare‐‐weareentitledtochargeforour

5 support,investigation,etcetera,yes.

6 Q.Okay.Fromparagraph74onwards,thereissetoutthere

7 variousmattersrelatingtoMrClark'sletterandthe

8 explanationsforit,etcetera.Wereyoupersonally

9 involvedinanyofthat?

10 A.CanIjust‐‐

11 Q.Yes,do.Soparagraph74.{C/9/105}MsBirdirequested

12 adetailedbreakdownandMrClarkprovidedonetoher;

13 doyouremember?

14 A.Yes,intermsofMrClarkconductinghisreviewor

15 investigation,whateveryouwanttocallit,then

16 clearlythatwasdowntoMrClark.

17 Q.SoIshouldaskhim.Heiscomingalongtogive

18 evidence.SoIcanaskhimaboutit?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Youweren'tpersonallyinvolved?

21 A.No.

22 Q.That'sfine.Soskiptoparagraph82then,whichis

23 amattermoreofprinciple.Doyouseeparagraph82?

24 {C/9/107}

25 A.Yes.

111

1 Q.Lastfourlines:

2 "Accordingly,thecostofanyadditionalservice,

3 whetherthatservicebeaninvestigationattherequest

4 ofSOG,asaBshareholder/directorofthatStore

5 Company,oremergencymanagementcoverrequiredtokeep

6 astoretradingintheabsenceoftheAdirectors,will

7 bechargedtotheStore..."

8 Doyouseethat?

9 A.Ican,yes.

10 Q.SoI'minterestedinthewayyouputthatinrelationto

11 theinvestigationcosts?

12 A.CanIreadtheparagraphs,soIhavegotthefull

13 context?

14 Q.Yes,do.(Pause)

15 A.Yes,Ihavereadit,MrStuart.

16 Q.Sotheinvestigationelementofthecosts‐‐notthe

17 managementcover,whichissomethingseparate‐‐

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.‐‐buttheinvestigationelement,yousaythatarises

20 fromyouasBshareholderrequestinganinvestigation?

21 A.Correct.

22 Q.Andyousaythatinthosecircumstances,absentany

23 resolutionbytheboardofDartfordSpecsaversLimited

24 oritssubsidiary,DartfordVisionplusLimited,yousay,

25 merelyasaresultofyoubeingallowedtorequestas

112

1 Bshareholderofthestorecompanythattherebean2 investigationofyourfellowAshareholder,MsBirdi?3 A.Yes.4 Q.Thatyouhavetherighttochargethestoreforthat?5 A.Correct.6 Q.Andonwhatbasisdoyouassertthat?7 A.Onthebasisthatweare‐‐SOGisaBshareholder.8 Q.Yes.9 A.Thatwehavegotaninvestigationtocarryout.The

10 investigationistodowiththebusinessofDartford.11 Thepeopleinvolvedinthatinvestigationworkfor12 Dartford.Therefore,as3.1.1,thenallthecoststhat13 areassociatedwiththestore,weareentitledtocharge14 thestoreforthosecosts.15 Q.3.1.1isday‐to‐daymanagement,MrDyson.Youarenot16 suggestingthatthisisday‐to‐daymanagement?17 A.I'msuggestingthatanycoststhatareincurred‐‐back18 tothatword‐‐withregardtodoingtheinvestigation,19 weareentitledtochargeDartfordforthosecosts.20 Q.Okay.CouldyoujustgotobundleE6,page1482.21 {E/389/1482}Doyouseethat?That'sanemail,22 7July2008:23 "Subject:Dartfordcosts."24 ThisistoDavidClark,whoisthemanwhohad25 writtentheletter;doyouremember?



113

1 A.Yes.2 Q.ItisfromsomeonecalledCatherineLillington.Canyou3 justtellhisLordshipwhoCatherineLillingtonis?4 A.Idon'tknow.5 Q."HiDavid.6 "Followingmyearlieremail,Derekhasaskedmeto7 sendyouhishandwrittenamendments."8 Doyouseethat?9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Thatwouldbeyou,Derek,wouldn'tit?11 A.Itwouldbe,yes.12 Q.Andthenweseepage1483:{E/389.1/1483}13 "Derek.14 "PleasefindattachedmyresponsetoSBirdirefher15 emailqueryingchargesmadetotheDartfordstore...16 Legalhavecheckedthewording."17 Doyouseethat?18 A.Yes.19 Q.Andthenyouhaveannotatedit:20 "AmendandcopyDCCDGforfinalreview.21 "Derek."22 Doyouseethat?23 A.Yes.24 Q.Sotheseareyouramendments,aren'tthey?25 A.Theyare.

114

1 Q.Onpage1484to1485?{E/389.1/1484}

2 A.Correct.

3 Q.Whywereyougettinginvolvedinthedetailof

4 MrClark'sexplanationhere?

5 A.Becausehehadsentittome.

6 Q.Yes.

7 A.AndIrevieweditandIthoughtthattherewouldbemore

8 clarity.IcorrectedthingsthatIthoughtweren't

9 rightandIaddedaline,particularlyaroundthedaily

10 charge,totryandexplain,sothatwhenMsBirdigot

11 thisletter,itwasclearerthanperhapsitwasbefore,

12 whenDavidhadjustsentmethecopyasitwas.

13 Sotheseare‐‐notchanging,butgivingmore

14 claritytotheindividualcommentsthatareenclosedin

15 theletter.

16 Q.Okay.Andsoundertheheading,"Dailymanagementof

17 store",itsays:{E/389.1/1484}

18 "SOGdonotrequirestoredirectorsoractingstore

19 directorsto‐‐"

20 A.Sorry,canyoutakemewhere...?

21 Q.Halfwaydownthereisaheading,"Dailymanagementof

22 store"?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Page1484.Doyouseethat?

25 A.Yes.

115

1 Q."SOGdonotrequirestoredirectorsoractingstore

2 directorstocompletealogsheetofhours..."

3 Doyouseethat?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q."...inattendancethereforethisinformationisnot

6 available."

7 Youhaveadded:

8 "Thestoreischargedadailyratewhichcoversall

9 theircosts."

10 A.Correct.

11 Q."Withregardtodaysofattendance,Ihaveinvestigated

12 asampleoffourmonthofcostsrelatingtothe'dayto

13 dayrunning'ofthebusiness.Alloftheinvoices

14 submittedwerefoundtobecorrectandrelateexactlyto

15 thedayswherebyanActingstoredirectorwasin

16 attendance..."

17 Youhaveadded:

18 "...attheDartfordstore."

19 Yes?

20 A.CanIjustreadthat,sorry.

21 Q.Youaredealingwiththeminutiaeoftheletterhere.

22 Youhavechanged‐‐

23 A.Erm‐‐

24 Q.‐‐"Dartford"to"theDartfordstore"?

25 A.Well,whenyouareinvitedtoreadsomethingandcomment

116

1 onitandyouseesomething,thenyouannotate.

2 Q.Okay.Allright.Soit'sthenextparagraph:

3 "ThedailychargeforanSOGemployeeActingstore

4 director..."

5 Whoisactingasstoredirector,accordingtoyou?

6 A.Notaccordingtome.Davidwrotethatbit.Ijustput

7 "employee"inthere.

8 Q.Yes,youchangedthemeaningfrom"SOGActingstore

9 director"to"SOGemployeeActingstoredirector".So

10 whichSOGemployeedoyoumean?

11 A.That'sclearlywrong.

12 Q.Okay.Andthenatthebottomyouhaveaddedthenote:

13 "Theis..."

14 Ithinkyoumean:

15 "Thisistheequivalenttoanaveragedailycharge

16 of£440,whichcoversallcostsincludingtravel,meals,

17 accommodationandstaffsalaries."

18 Doyouseethat?

19 A.Ido.

20 Q.Ifitcoversallstaffsalaries,howcanyouchargefor

21 thepersonconcerned,themanager,the£440,and,ontop

22 ofthat,thefurtherstaffelementinrelationtothe

23 feesyousayyouchargeforotherthings?

24 A.Canyourepeatthequestion?

25 Q.Yes.Youhavetoldus,whenItookyoutothebitwhere



117

1 youwerechargingforMrRaines,MrRoweandother2 people'sinvolvement‐‐3 A.Yes.4 Q.‐‐notjusttheirexpenses,yousaid,"Ah,wellwehave5 gottheirsalariesaswell.Weareprovidingthem."6 A.Correct.7 Q.But,surely,accordingtoyou,thestaffsalariesare8 includedwithinthe£440?9 A.Yes,asacombinedchargeof£440,butthepeoplewho

10 wereactuallyproviding,ontwooftheoccasionsover11 thiscover,arepeoplewhoarenotemployees,ie12 CarolSlarkandSeanMcLaughlin.13 Q.Allright.Justexplaintomeagainwhyyouare14 personallygettingsoinvolvedinthis?15 A.BecauseDavidsentthistome.16 Q.Yes.17 A.Ireadit,IthoughtIwasaddingclaritytomakeit18 easierforwhenitwasreceivedtoanswersomeofthe19 questionsthatwerebeingasked.20 Q.Okay.Allright.Ithinkwehavedealtwith21 paragraphs83to85earlierthismorning,soI'mnot22 goingtotakeyoutothat.23 Canyougotoparagraph89ofyourwitness24 statement.{C/9/108}MrLunn.25 A.Yes.

118

1 Q.WhichisthepointIwasaskingyouaboutearlier.Do2 yourememberIshowedyoutheMrLunnemail?3 A.Yes.4 Q.It'shalfwaydown89.Doyouseethereisasentence5 inthemiddle.Itsays:6 "IfDartfordwasanindependentbusiness..."7 A.Yes.8 Q."IfDartfordwasanindependentbusinessandithadno9 directorstorunitthenitwouldhavetoincurthe

10 costsofatemporarystoredirector.Inthiscase,the11 storehadthesupportofoneofitsmain12 shareholder/directors(SOG),butthisdidnotmeanthat13 legitimatebusinessexpensesshouldhavebeenwaived."14 Doyouseethat?15 A.Yes.16 Q.It'syouruseoftheterm"waived".Whatlegitimate17 businessexpensesareyoutalkingabouttherethatmay18 ormaynotbewaived?19 A.CanIjusthaveaminutetoreadthecontext?(Pause)20 Right.It'sinthecontextthatIbelievethatthe21 chargingthatwewere‐‐chargesthatweremadeto22 Dartfordforthecoverarelegitimate.Theyshouldbe23 there,andtheyshouldn'tbestopped.24 Q.Okay.Paragraph90isreallyfundamentaltowhatyour25 explanationisandIneedyourexplanationforwhatyou

119

1 sayhere.Paragraph90,doyouseeit?Yousayinthe

2 firstsentencethat:{C/9/108}

3 "Whereafull‐scaleinvestigationinvolving

4 emergencymanagementcoverisrequired,thisisusually

5 becauseoneormoreoftheJVPs...aresuspectedof

6 fraudulentordishonestconduct."

7 Fraudordishonesty.Yes?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.IcanquiteseethatpayingMrRehmanlargesumsof

10 moneyfordoingnoworkispotentiallyfraudor

11 dishonesty.Thatisanallegationof,effectively,

12 afraudordishonesty.Butnothavingemployment

13 contractsorthepaperworkinplace,thatwouldn'tbe

14 anallegationoffraudordishonesty,wouldit?

15 A.No.

16 Q.Andusinganon‐approvedsupplier,whilstwrong,whilst

17 entirelywrong‐‐

18 A.Ido‐‐Idothinkthatisfraudulentanddishonest.

19 Q.Isit?Fraudulent?

20 A.Yes,becausetherewasnopermissiontodoit.There

21 wasnoinvoices.Wehaven'tseenhowthecompanypaid

22 forthatworkstobedone.So,yes.

23 Q.What'sthefraud?Fraudonwhom?

24 A.Well,there'sclearlytaximplicationsforthepeople

25 thataredoingthework,becausetherearenoinvoices

120

1 forthiswork.

2 Q.Yes.Soit'safraudontheRevenue;isthatwhatyou

3 aresuggesting?Orpossibly?

4 A.I'mjustsayingit'sfraudulentanddishonestconduct.

5 Q.It'seasytosay,isn'tit?Buthowisitfraudulent;

6 howisitfraudulenttoemploysomebodytodoputup

7 a‐‐fixawindowthat'sbroken?Theyarenotonyour

8 approvedlist;theyarePolish.Howisthatfraudulent?

9 A.Theactivitythattheyaredoing,iftheyarenot

10 providinginvoicesandnotprovidingguaranteesand

11 otherthings,couldleadyoutobelievethere'ssome

12 fraudulentactivitygoingon.

13 Q.Couldleadtoyoubelievethat,butit'snotactuallyan

14 allegationoffraudulentconduct,isit?Toemploy

15 somebodywhoisnotontheapprovedlistandtodoso

16 withouttheproperpaperworkisnotitselffraudulent,

17 isit?It'sadifferentsortofwrongdoingtofraudand

18 dishonesty?

19 A.Ithinkthattheiractivitieswereclearlynotabove

20 board.Maybethatisn'tfraudulent,butthere'sclearly

21 somethingnotrightaboutthefactthatpeopledowork

22 anddon'tprovideuswithinvoicesanddon't‐‐

23 Q.Imean‐‐

24 A.‐‐andpotentiallydon'tpaytheirtaxesorpayNHIor

25 whateverelsetheyaresupposedtodowhilstaboutdoing



121

1 legitimatebusiness.

2 Q.Thelackofpaperwork,whilstitmaywellbeevidence

3 thatsomethingdishonestisgoingon‐‐becausewho

4 doesn'tdocumentwhattheyaredoing‐‐thelackof

5 paperworkisn'tnecessarilyfraudulent,isit?

6 A.No.

7 Q.Imean,youyourself‐‐wehavegotherefiveyears'

8 worthofyourinvolvementinthismatterandnotone

9 singledocumentevidencingthemeetingsanddiscussions

10 whichyousayyouhadwiththesepeople.Butyou

11 weren'tactingfraudulentlywhenyoudidn'tputanything

12 onpaper,wereyou?

13 A.No.Ididn'tactuallysayIdidn'tputitonpaper.

14 IsaidifIdidmakenotes,theyare‐‐theydon't‐‐

15 theynolongerexistbecauseIprobablyshreddedwith

16 themasIdealtwiththingsonmydailytasks.

17 Q.Again,theshreddingofdocumentsmightbefraudulent,

18 mightn'tit?Butitmightnotbe?

19 A.Butit'snotadocument,it'sanote.

20 Q.Allright.Soattheendofthisparagraph90,yousay

21 that:{C/9/109}

22 "...theinvestigationwasnecessitatedbyserious

23 allegationsregardingfinancialmattersoftheDartford

24 businessagainstherwhichtranspiredtobetrue."

25 That'snotfair‐‐

122

1 A.WhereamI?

2 Q.Theendofthisparagraph90.Theallegations,the

3 seriousallegations‐‐

4 A.Sorry,Ican'tseewhereyouare.

5 Q.Attheendofparagraph90?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.Thelastsentenceisfourlines.Itsays:

8 "Itistruethatthecostsofemergencymanagement

9 covercanbesubstantial,butIhavelittlesympathyfor

10 MsBirdiwhenshecomplainsofthisgiventhat..."

11 Thenyouusethewords:

12 "...theinvestigationwasnecessitatedbyserious

13 allegationsregardingfinancialmattersoftheDartford

14 businessagainstherwhichtranspiredtobetrue."

15 A.Okay,it'soverthepage;sorry,yes.

16 Q.Youhavealreadytoldusthattheinvestigationwas

17 necessitatedbyMrPatel'sallegations;nooneelse's.

18 That'sright,isn'tit?

19 A.Forthetheftofthemoneyandtheactivitythrough

20 refunding,that'sMrPatel.

21 Q.No.TheinvestigationintoMsBirdiwasnecessitatedby

22 seriousallegationsmadeagainstherbyMrPatel?

23 A.Correct.

24 Q.Andthoseallegationswerethatshepaidorcausedthe

25 companytopaylargesumsofmoneytoherhusbandwhen

123

1 herhusbanddidnoworkforthebusiness?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Doyouremember?4 A.Ido.5 Q.Which,asyouhavesaid,wouldbefraudordishonesty.6 Thatallegationdidnottranspiretobetrue,did7 it?Ittranspiredtobefalse?8 A.Ittranspirednottobeproven.9 Q.No,no,no:ittranspiredtobefalse,thatallegation.

10 MrRehmandidsomeworkforthebusiness,didn'the?11 A.Hedid.12 Q.SOGandMsMancinididaninvestigationandshe13 summarisedalltheworkthathedid.Sothatallegation14 ofpayingsomebodyfornoworkwasafalseallegation?15 A.Correct.16 Q.It'snotyourfaultthatMrPatelmadeafalse17 allegation‐‐aslongasMrMcAlindondidn'tcausehim18 tomakethatallegation‐‐butitwasafalse19 allegation,notonethattranspiredtobetrue?20 A.Correct.21 Q.Okay.IthinkIhavedealtthismorningwiththesalary22 increases,sowecanskippastthat.Wearealmostat23 theendofyourfirststatementnow.Let'smoveonto24 97,undertheheading,"PaymentstoMrSingh".Doyou25 seethat?{C/9/110}

124

1 A.Ihavegotit,yes.

2 Q.Let'sdealwithafewpointsfirst.Youseektorely

3 uponclause15oftheshareholders'agreement;

4 paragraph98.WouldyoubeshownD1.Doyouseeit?

5 Page186.{D/15/186}Soyouprayinaidclause15and

6 youusethewords:

7 "Pursuanttoclause15oftheShareholders'

8 Agreement,thedecisionofwhowouldreplaceMrPatelas

9 aJVPinDartfordwassubjecttoSOG'sapproval..."

10 A.Correct.

11 Q.Doyouseethat?Soifwelookatclause15‐‐doyou

12 haveit?Page186?Clause15says:

13 "AnAdirector..."

14 ThatwouldbeMrPatel:

15 "...shallnottransferordisposeofalloranyof

16 hisAsharesoranyinterestinanyofthemtoanyother

17 personexceptinaccordancewithclause16..."

18 Wewillcomebacktothatinamoment.Sohecando

19 itunderclause16butotherwisehecan'tdoit:

20 "...unlesssuchpersonhasfirstbeenapprovedby

21 Specsaversasbeinganacceptabletransferee."

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.Soyou,Specsavers,effectivelyhavearightofapproval

24 overanyonetowhomheisgoingtotransfer,notby

25 clause16?



125

1 A.Correct.

2 Q."Suchapprovalwillnotbeunreasonablywithheld..."

3 Soyourrighttoapproveisitselfsubjectto

4 obligationsonyou,isn'tit?

5 A.Itis.

6 Q.It'snotanunfetteredrightforyousimplytosay,"We

7 don'tlikeMsKaur",forexample,yourexample."We

8 don'tthinksheisappropriate,youcan'ttransfer";

9 yourapprovalwillnotbeunreasonablywithheld:

10 "Ifsuchpersonisanindividualwhoisregistered

11 withthe[GOC]oranybodyreplacingitasanopthalmic

12 optician..."

13 SoanOO.

14 A.Hm‐mm.

15 Q."...oriftheAdirectorinquestionisadispenseras

16 adispensingopticianoriftheAdirectorinquestion

17 isdescribedinthisAgreementasaretailer..."

18 Thatdoesn'tapplyhere,doesit,inthisagreement?

19 Doyouremember,itwasdispenser,andatpage177,

20 {D/15/177}thestructurewasSpecsavers;theoptician,

21 whichisSwarandeepBirdi,andthedispenser,whichis

22 NimeshPatel.Thiswasn'taretailer‐typeexample.

23 A.Hewouldhavebeenresponsible‐‐Nimeshwouldhavebeen

24 responsibleforthedispensingandtheretailing.

25 Q.That'snotthepointofthisclause,isit?Thepoint

126

1 ofthisclauseisthatifsomebodyisdescribedinthis2 agreementas"theretailer"‐‐becauseinsomeofyour3 stores,youhaveOO,DOandretailer,oryouhaveOOand4 retailer.Youdon'talways‐‐5 A.Correct.6 Q.‐‐usethedispenser‐‐7 A.Iacceptthat.8 Q.Butifyoulookbackatpage177,justtohelpyou.9 Page177,theparties.Doyouseeit?Itsays:

10 "2.Parties."11 YouhavegotSpecsavers;thenyouhavegotthe12 optician,SwarandeepBirdi,andthedispenser,13 NimeshPatel?14 A.Correct.15 Q.So,inthiscaseitwasthedispenser,MrPatel.16 A.Yes.17 Q.Hewasthedispenser?18 A.Yes.19 Q.Soifyougobackto15.1.1,{D/15/186}youarenot20 unreasonablytowithholdyourapprovaliftheperson‐‐21 thatisthepersonwhoispurchasing;doyousee?22 A.Yes.23 Q.‐‐isadispenser:24 "...iftheAdirectorinquestionisthedispenser25 asadispensingoptician,or..."

127

1 Soit'sthatthatapplieshere,and(ii):

2 "SuchpersoncovenantswithSpecsaversinadeedto

3 performandobservealltheobligations..."

4 Sotheyhavetocomplywithalltheobligations.

5 Soyoudonothaveanunfetteredrighttoapproveor

6 notapprovepeople,doyou?

7 A.Ithinkwehavearighttoapproveandnotapprove

8 peoplebasedonwhethertheyarequalifiedandwhether

9 theyareabletopassourstage1process,whichis

10 aprocessthatweuse,andthey'vegottohavethe

11 skillsappropriatetothejobthattheyarebeingasked

12 todo.

13 Q.Yes.Thenextpointthatarisesfromthat,thisclause

14 thatyouarerelyingon,isthat,15:{D/15/186}

15 "AnAdirectorshallnottransferordisposeofall

16 oranyofhisAsharesoranyinterestinanyofthemto

17 anyotherpersonexceptinaccordancewithclause16

18 unlesssuchpersonhasfirstbeenapprovedbySpecsavers

19 asbeinganacceptabletransferee."

20 Thenclause16isthepurchasenoticeprocess.Do

21 yousee?

22 InthecaseofMrPatel,youdidn'tserveapurchase

23 notice,didyou?

24 A.Sorry?

25 Q.InthecaseofMrPatelandhisshares‐‐

128

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.‐‐youdidnotserveapurchasenotice?

3 A.That'scorrect.

4 Q.Sowecanignoreclause16,thepurchasenotice

5 provisions,can'twe?

6 A.Wecan.

7 Q.SoMrPatelasAdirectorcan'ttransferordisposeof

8 hisAshares,canhe,unlessthepersontowhomhehas

9 transferredthemhasfirstbeenapprovedbySpecsavers

10 asanacceptabletransferee?

11 A.Correct.

12 Q.Whodidyouapproveandwhereistheapproval?

13 A.Whodidweapprove...?

14 Q.Forhimtotransferhissharesto?

15 A.Whodidweapprovehimtotransferhisshares‐‐you

16 meanNimeshPatel?

17 Q.Yes.

18 A.Hetransferredthosesharestous.

19 Q.Yes.Andwhendidyouapproveyourselvesasan

20 acceptableAshareholder?

21 A.I'mnotsurethatwehavetoapproveourselves.

22 Q.Okay.Goingbacktoyourwitnessstatement,yousayat

23 paragraph100andthen101{C/9/111}thatyouwerenot

24 involvedintheselectionprocessofMrSingh.Youleft

25 allofthattoMrRyan.Doyouseethat?



129

1 A.No.

2 Q.Paragraph101ofyourwitnessstatement?

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.I'msorry,101:

5 "Iwasnotinvolvedintheselectionprocessof

6 MrSinghasthatmatterwasdealtwithby[Mr]Ryan..."

7 A."...inconjunctionwith[Mr]Raines."

8 Q."...inconjunctionwith[Mr]Raines."

9 Atthistime‐‐sothatwaslate2007/beginningof

10 2008,okay?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Istheresomereasonwhyyouhavesteppedoutofthe

13 positionofbeingthecontrollingdirectorofthe

14 Dartfordstore?

15 A.NotthatI'mawareof.

16 Q.HaveyouappointedMrRyanasadirectoroftheDartford

17 store?

18 A.No.

19 Q.OrMrRaines?

20 A.No.

21 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatyouwereinvolvedin

22 approvingordiscussingtheappointmentofMrSingh.We

23 don'tseeitanywhereonthepaperworkbutI'mgoingto

24 suggesttoyouthatyouwereactuallyinvolved,and

25 wouldhavebeeninvolved,discussingthingswith

130

1 MrRainesataroundthistime?

2 A.Canyousaythatagain,MrStuart?

3 Q.Yes.Yousaid:

4 "Iwasnotinvolvedintheselectionprocessof

5 MrSingh..."

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.Iamgoingtosuggesttoyouthatyouwereinvolved‐‐

8 "involved"inthesenseofdiscussingitwithMrRaines?

9 A.TheselectionoftheindividualwouldbedonebyMrRyan

10 andMrRaines.

11 Q.Yes.

12 A.AndthenI,asitsaysinhere,wouldhavethefinal

13 say.SoIgetinvolvedatthepointwheretheysay,"We

14 believethatthisindividualistherightindividualfor

15 thisstore".

16 Q.Okay.Andatwhatstagedidtheyadviseyouofthat?

17 A.Whenyousay"atwhatstage",Imean,thisisalong

18 timeago.Idon'tknowwhatyoumeanby"atwhat

19 stage".

20 Q.YouaresayingthattheappointmentofMrSinghis

21 amatter,ifyoulike,wheretheyaredoingaproper

22 investigationintohim;checkingouthiscredentials;

23 assessingwhetherheistherightmanforthestore.

24 That'syourevidence,isn'tit?

25 A.Yes.

131

1 Q.Andthenatsomepoint‐‐

2 A.It'snormalbusinesspracticeforbothMrRyan,

3 sometimesMrHowarthandMrRaines,tobeinvolvedin

4 selectingthejointventurepartners.

5 Q.Okay.Andthenatsomepointtheycometoyouandthey

6 say,"Right,wehavelookedatalltheoptionsand

7 MrSinghisthebestoption"?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.Andthat'swhyyouapprovehisappointment?

10 A.Correct.

11 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthattheconceptofputting

12 inMrSinghwasoneinwhichyouwereinvolved,in

13 discussingwithMrRainesand/orMrRyanthroughoutthe

14 periodoftimewhentheywereconsideringwhattodo?

15 A.Intermsoftheselectionoftheindividual,therewould

16 havebeen‐‐Idon'tknow.Idon'tknowhowmany

17 individualstheyconsidered.Atapointwheretheyhave

18 madeadecision,thentheywouldtalktomeaboutit.

19 Q.Okay.Isthat‐‐let'sseejustacoupleofdocuments.

20 E5,page1177.ThereisMrRaines‐‐

21 A.E5...?

22 Q.E5/1177.{E/281/1177}

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.ThisisMrRaines'sdaybook.Hehasgotthisbook,

25 likeadiary,wherehenotesdownalltheconversations

132

1 hehaswithpeople,etcetera?2 A.Yes.3 Q.Thisone,whichyouwillseehasbeenputintothis4 bundlebySpecsavers,issomewherebetween9January,5 page1176,{E/280/1176}and21January,page1180.6 {E/284/1180}Sowecanguessthatthisis7 aroundJanuary2008.Wouldyoutakethatfromme?8 A.Yes.9 Q.Andwehavegotaheading,justabovethefirst

10 holepunch:11 "Derek."12 Doyouseethat?13 A.Yes.14 Q.DoyourecallspeakingtoMrRainesatthistime?15 A.Ican'tsayIwouldbeabletopinpointittoadate,16 no,butifyougavemeatopic‐‐17 Q.Aroundthistime‐‐well,thetopicappearstobe‐‐18 secondholepunch:19 "Dominic‐Dartford.(Plan)..."20 Inacircle:21 "Action."22 Thenontheright,someonehasput:23 "Putinplan."24 Orcouldthatbe"place":25 "Putinplace."



133

1 Doyouseethat?

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.Doyouknowwhatthatwasabout?

4 A.No.

5 Q.Thisisallundertheheading,"Derek".Itlookslike

6 oneoftheitemsofyourdiscussionwas:

7 "Dominic‐Dartford(Plan).‐Action."

8 WhatplanofactiondidyouhaveforDartford:you,

9 personally,MrDyson,inJanuary2008?

10 A.Whatplan?

11 Q.Yes.

12 A.Iwouldn'thavehadanyplan,otherthandealingwith

13 workoractivitiesassociatedwithdoingmyjob.There

14 wasnoplan.

15 ThisisobviouslyareferencebyMark.Hewants

16 Dominictodosomething.Ihavenoideawhatitis,and

17 heisgoingtotakeanactionagainstthat.

18 Q.WhoisDominic?

19 A.DominicisanRDC,soaRegionalDevelopmentConsultant

20 forLondon.

21 Q.Okay,andwhatwasDominic'sroleinallofthis?

22 A.I'vegotnoidea.

23 Q.Sowhenyouwere‐‐okay.Youcan'trecallthis

24 discussionatallwithMrRaines?

25 A.No,itdoesn'tmeananythingtome.

134

1 Q.Right.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:IsitDominicSavill?

3 A.DominicSavill,yes.

4 MRSTUART:Canyoujustgodownfromthere?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.Youhavegot:

7 "Dominic‐Dartford..."

8 Somethingtodowithdigitalcameras.

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Doyouseethat?Thenitsays:

11 "Linda‐sendtoDerekDavidClark."

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.What'sthatabout?

14 A.Isuspect,ifyougotothetopofit,itsays:

15 "121."

16 DavidClarkhadjustjoinedthebusinessatthis

17 time,sohehasdoneaninduction.Iimaginethathe

18 wassendingmeacopyofhisinductionplan.

19 Q.Okay.

20 A.BecauseDavidClarkdidgetinvolveindigitalcameras

21 asoneofthefirstjobshedidworkingwithSimon,

22 whosesecondnameIcan'tremember,whosejobitwasto

23 rolloutthispieceofequipmenttoallofthe

24 Specsavers'portfolioofstores.

25 Q.SothatallseemstohavenothingtodowithDartford?

135

1 A.No.2 Q.SotheonlyinterestinDartfordseemstobetheDominic3 itemandtheactionplan,butyoudon'tknowwhatthat4 wasareferenceto?5 A.Ihavenoidea.6 Q.Okay,fine.Wouldyoujustflickontopage1210?7 A.1210?8 Q.Yes.1210.{E/302/1210}WeareintoMarch2008now.9 Doyouseethat?

10 A.Right.11 Q.Doyouhavethat?12 A.Ihavegotit,yes.13 Q.MauraFaller;whoisshe?14 A.SheisJohnPerkins'sPA.15 Q.Okay,so"John"isJohnPerkins.It'sfrom16 MichaelRyan.Heisreportingtoyou,isn'the?Heis17 themanwehaveheardofalready,MichaelRyan?18 A.Heisthebusinesstransfermanager.19 Q.That'sright.Itsays:20 "HiJohn..."21 Andthensomethinghasbeenscrubbedout,whichis22 presumablynothingtodowithDartford:23 "Dartford‐‐I'vespokentoKamSinghwhostill24 wantstheDartfordshares,andhewillstarttheprocess25 ofsellinghisGraysshares.Hewillalsocall

136

1 MichaelMcGonagle,whoIhaveaskedtofacilitatethe

2 initialmeetingwithSwarandeep,andgenerallymanage

3 Kam'sintroductiontothestore.

4 "Wepaid£55,000forNimesh'sshares,soIpropose

5 tosellthemfor£60K,whichis3xp/ebasedoncurrent

6 performance.ThiswillcoverBTfees."

7 That's"businesstransfer"fees;isthatright?

8 A.Yes.

9 Q."Areyouokaywiththissaleprice?"

10 MrDyson,wereyouinvolvedatthisstageinthese

11 discussions‐‐

12 A.NotthatI'mawareof,becauseobviouslyit'sunusual

13 forMichaeltogostraighttoJohn,soImayhavebeen

14 onholiday.

15 Q.Okay.

16 A.OrImayhavebeenoutof‐‐intheNordics.Ihaveno

17 idea;Ican'ttellyouwithout‐‐withoutknowing

18 preciselyontheday.So,itsoundsasifMikeis

19 checkinginwithJohnwithregardtothesharesale.

20 Q.Okay.ButwhowasitwhodecidedtoletMrSinghhave

21 someshares,whichyourbusinesstransferdepartment,

22 MrRyan,hadvaluedinFebruary2007at‐‐rememberthe

23 documentItookyoutofirstthingthismorning?In

24 February2007hevalueditatsomewhereintheregion

25 of‐‐



137

1 A.Well,MikeRyandidn't,butsomebody‐‐

2 Q.Amemberofhisstaffdid?

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.Atbetween£80,000and£125,000.Doyouremember?

5 £85,000and£125,000?

6 A.Yes.

7 Q.WhosedecisionwasittosellthosesharestoMrSingh

8 forjust£60,000?

9 A.Well,thatwouldhavebeenMichaelRyan,proposingwhat

10 thevalueoftheshareswasatthetime.So,goingback

11 toyouroriginalquestion,MrRyanandMrRaines

12 obviouslywouldhavelookedatwhoarethepeople‐‐

13 potentialcandidates;theywouldhavedoneaselection

14 ofthebestpersonthattheybelieved,andMichaelRyan

15 wouldhavedoneacalculationofwhattheshareswere,

16 value,tosellittoMrSingh.

17 Q.Wedon'thavethat,yousee.Ididaskyouaboutthis

18 yesterdayandyousaid,"Yes,eachtimewebought,we

19 woulddooneofthosevaluationsandeachtimewesold

20 wewoulddoavaluation".That'swhatyousaid

21 yesterday?

22 A.Yes,wewoulddoavaluation,yes.

23 Q.SowhatwasthevaluationasatMarch2008?Whatwas

24 thevaluationoftheseshares?

25 A.Accordingtothismemo,MichaelRyansaidit's£60,000.

138

1 Q.No,hedoesn'tsaythat'sthevalue.Hesaid:

2 {E/302/1210}

3 "Wepaid£55,000...soIproposetosellthemfor

4 £60K..."

5 Thereisnovaluationthere?

6 A.Okay,Itakethepointyouaremaking,butMikeRyan

7 wouldhave‐‐wouldhavemadethatdecision,tosaywhat

8 hebelievedthesharepricewas.

9 Q.MrSinghisgettingarealbargain,isn'the?

10 A.Well,ifit'sbasedonthreetimesP/E,thatmakesit

11 60grand.It'snotdoingverywell.

12 Q.Thereasonit'snotdoingverywellforthatlastyear,

13 betweenMarch2007andMarch2008,isbecauseithashad

14 almost£100,000worthofcharges,fees‐‐

15 A.£65,000forthemanagementcover,yes.

16 Q.Managementcover,plusalltheinvestigationcosts,do

17 youremember?

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Theseareallunusualitems,aren'tany?

20 A.Butit'salsounusualforthatlengthoftimeto

21 transpire,whichIsaidrightatthebeginningofthe

22 day,becauseweneverenvisagedthatitwouldtakesix

23 monthstodoaninvestigationandadisciplinary.

24 Q.That'snotthequestionI'maskingyou,isit?You

25 acknowledgethatsimplyapplyingafiguretothe

139

1 profits‐‐actuallylosses‐‐earnedinthatlastyear2 isawhollyunusualyear,forwhateverreason‐‐3 illness,suspension,NimeshPatelinvestigation,thefts,4 etcetera.Thosearewhollyunusualitems,andthetrue5 positionhereisthatthiswasacompanywhichwas6 turningoverabout£1millionto£1.2million,with7 profitsofabout£100,000to£120,000?8 A.Idon'tknowwhereyouhavegotafigurefrom£120,0009 onprofitsfrom.

10 Q.Okay.Whatdoyouthinktheprofitswouldbe,stripping11 outtheunusualitems?12 A.Ihavegotnoidea.Ihavegotnothingonwhichto13 base‐‐answerthatquestion.14 Q.Allright,well,ifyouhadabsolutelynoideaandno15 basisfordoingit,onwhatbasisdoyouvaluethese16 sharesat£60,000?17 A.Idonotvaluetheshares.MikeRyanvaluestheshares.18 Thatishisjob.Heisthebusinesstransfermanager.19 Q.Andhedidn'tdiscussitwithyou?20 A.No.21 Q.Allright.Wereyouinvolvedpersonallyatallthen22 fromthispointonwardsinrelationtothis‐‐200823 now‐‐whenMrSinghgetsfinallyappointed,buysthe24 shares,isappointedasadirector?25 A.Imean,Icouldsayno,unlessthereisapointof

140

1 referencethatsaysIwas.It'sverydifficultforme2 tomake‐‐3 Q.Ifyougotoyourwitnessstatement,I'msureyouwould4 haveitthere.5 A.Yes.6 Q.Atparagraph103,lastsentence,yousay:{C/9/112}7 "...MrSinghwasbeingbroughtintoDartfordasin8 myviewhehadthenecessaryretailingskillstocarry9 outtheroleofaRetailJVP."

10 A.Correct.11 Q.Soareyousayingthatyouarethepersonwhohadto12 makethedecisionandthatwasthebasisforyour13 decision?BecauseIcan'tfindanynotesmadebyyouor14 anyemailssenttoyou,saying,"Look,herearethe15 candidates,thischaphasgotspecificretailskills",16 oranythinginfact,anything‐‐17 A.MrRyanandMrRainesmadetheselection.18 Q.Okay.19 A.Theyputthatforwardtome.IendorsedthatIfelt20 thatMrPatelwastherightindividualbecausehewasin21 ‐‐workinginasuccessfulstoreinGrays,performing22 theroleoftheretaildirector.Itwasasuccessful23 store.Ihadnoreasontobelievethathewasn't24 asuitablecandidate.25 Q.Asyousitherenow,doyouactuallyrecallhavingthese



141

1 conversations?

2 A.With?

3 Q.MrRyan,Isupposeyouaresaying?

4 A.Notspecifically,no.

5 Q.No.Allright.

6 ThenwecomeontoMrSingh'ssalary,paragraph104.

7 {C/9/112}Wereyouinvolvedinsettingthatsalary,or

8 wasthatamatterforMrRaines?

9 A.Iwasinvolvedbutnotatthepointwhentheoriginal

10 letterwentout.SotheofferletterwenttoMrSingh.

11 Itthenwasdulyreturnedandthenumberwascrossedout

12 andanothernumberwasannotatedonit.Ithinkitwas

13 42.

14 Q.Yes,that'spage1217inbundleE5.March12th.

15 {E/307/1217}

16 A.12...?

17 Q....17.

18 A.Yes.

19 Q.Isthatwhatyouarereferringtoatthebottomthere?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q."...youwillbeactingastheDO/Retailpartnerin

22 Dartfordandwillthereforebepaidintheregionof

23 £32,500..."

24 A.Correct.

25 Q.That'sbecausethatwasthegoingrate,wasn'tit,for

142

1 aDOretaildirectoratthattime?

2 A.No,thatwastherateatwhichMrPatelwaspaid.It

3 wasn'tnecessarilythegoingrate.Thegoingratewould

4 be,basedonexperience,anythingfromthatlevelupto

5 £45,000‐ish.Ican'tbecompletelyaccurate.

6 Soitwouldhavebeenbasedonexperience,

7 performanceoftheindividualandhowlongtheyhadhad

8 servicewithus.

9 Q.Didyouplayanypartinthedecision‐makingtofix

10 thesefigures?

11 A.MrRyan‐‐Iremember‐‐thereasonIrememberit,

12 Irememberhimbringingthistome,showingmewhathad

13 happened.AndI,inadiscussionwithMrRyan,said

14 IwashappyoncehehadexplainedthathewasinGrays

15 andhewasearningasimilarsalary.Bearinginmind

16 thatthestorewasn'tmakinglotsofmoney,lotsof

17 dividends,sonotalotofchanceofMrSinghtakingany

18 distributions,Iwashappyatthesalarylevelof

19 £42,000.

20 Q.Yousayasimilarsalary.That'snotright,isit?If

21 wearetalkingaboutbasicsalary‐‐soevenifthe

22 storemakesawhoppingloss,thedirectorstillgets

23 theirbasicsalary.Nobonuses,nodistributions.

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.The£32,500thatwasgoingintotheofferletterforthe

143

1 employmentwasbasicsalary,wasn'tit?

2 A.Well,£42,000isbasicsalaryaswell,soI'mnotsure

3 thepointyouaretryingtomake.

4 Q.I'mmakingthepointthatyousaidhewasgetting

5 £42,000inhisotherstore?

6 A.Asbasic‐‐basicsalary.

7 Q.Thatwasn'thisbasicsalary.Doyouhaveevidencethat

8 itwashisbasicsalary?

9 A.No,butIwastoldhewasbeingpaidasimilaramount.

10 Q.Includingbonusesorincludingotherbenefits?

11 A.Myinterpretationoftheinformationthatwasgivento

12 meisthathewasearningasimilarsalaryinGrays.

13 Q.Basicsalary.Youunderstoodthatwhathewasbeing

14 offeredherewas£42,000basic?

15 A.Absolutely,Iunderstandthat100percent.

16 Q.Plusbonusesifappropriate?

17 A.Distributions,areyoutalkingabout?

18 Q.Distributionsasbonuses.

19 A.Yes.

20 Q.Sosalarybonuses;yes?Plusotheremploymentbenefits?

21 A.Correct.

22 Q.Sothe£32,500figurewasjustthebasicsalary

23 entitlement?

24 A.Andsowasthe£42,000thatIagreedwithMikeRyanas

25 basic.

144

1 Q.Fine.Andyoubelievedthathewasearning£42,000

2 basicsalaryunderhiscontractofemploymentatGrays?

3 A.Asimilaramountofmoney.

4 Q.Okay.Sofromthat,itdoessoundlikeyouwere

5 personallyinvolvedinthedecisiontopayhimthis

6 amount?

7 A.Whenthiswasbroughttomyattention,yes.

8 Q.Yes.SoMikeRyancametoyouandsaid,"Look,hewants

9 42basic"?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Andyousaid,"Yes,payhim42"?

12 A.No,Iwouldn'thavejustsaid‐‐Iwouldn'thavejust

13 said,"Yes,basicpayhim".Iwouldhaveaskedsome

14 questionsaroundabout,"Whatarewecurrentlypaying

15 around";"Whatwasheearningbefore",etcetera.So

16 Iwouldhavehadesomeinformationtohandinorderfor

17 metothendoit.Iwouldn'tjustmakeituponasnap

18 decision.

19 Q.Okay.Arethereanynotesoranyemailsfromyou,

20 relatingtoyouapprovingthissalary?

21 A.No.

22 Q.Didyouconsideritwasunusual,£42,000basic?

23 A.No.

24 Q.Couldyouflicktopage1300.{E/349/1300}Thedealby

25 whichMrSinghcameinwasasortofcompositedeal,



145

1 wasn'tit?Notjustbasic,notjustsharesale.Itwas2 acompositeofanumberofthings.3 Page1300.Doyourecognisethisformat?4 A.Irecognisetheformat,yes.5 Q.Soobviously,therecameapointwhereitwasdecided6 thatthe50percentAshareholdingwasgoingtobesold7 toMrSingh.Heisinsertedunder"Buyer'sDetails";do8 youseethathalfwaydownthepage?9 A."KamSingh(GraysDirector)"?Isthatwhatyou‐‐yes?

10 Q.Yes.Thesalaryis£42,000?11 A.Yes.12 Q.Lookingabove,undertheseverancepackageitem‐‐this13 isallinrelationtotheseller‐‐thereisanitem14 whichsays:15 "ContingentLiability...16 "Thebuyeracknowledgesthatthereisapotential17 estimatedliabilityof£20,340,payabletoHMRCatsome18 timeinthefuture.Itwillneedtobepaidfromfuture19 profitsandcashflow."20 Doyouseethat?21 A.Ido.22 Q.ThatwastheHMRCpaymentthathadtobepaidin23 relationtoMrPatel'sliability,wasn'tit?24 A.Itwouldhavebeen,yes.25 Q.Yes.

146

1 A.Upuntilthepointheleft.

2 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Sorry,Ididn'tunderstandthat.Whatis

3 MrPatel'sliabilitytoHMRC?

4 A.AtthetimethatMrPatelwasemployedandatthetime

5 heleft,HMRCweredoinganinvestigationastoourdual

6 companystructure.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:ThiswastheVATinvestigation?

8 A.Yes.Sowewereputtingmoneyoutofeverybody's

9 accountstoonesideincaseweendedupwithapayment

10 backtoHMRCof‐‐ratherthanleaveitsothatitwas

11 justanumberthatturnedup,weweremakingprovision

12 forthatandmakingsureeverybodywasawareofthat.

13 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Ihavenotquiteunderstoodwhythenyou

14 saidinanswertocounsel'squestionthatitwasthe

15 HMRCpaymentthathadtobepaidinrelationto

16 MrPatel'sliability.Ifit'stheVATinvestigation,

17 it'saliabilityofthebusiness.

18 A.Thathewasemployedandadirectorresponsibleupuntil

19 thepointatwhichheleft,sohewouldhavesome

20 liabilityofthetotal.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Okay,thankyou.

22 MRSTUART:Thenjustgoingdownthatpage,therestofthe

23 deal.Doyouseeundertheheading,"TheDeal",onthe

24 left‐handside?

25 A.Yes.

147

1 Q.Thereisaheading"TheDeal":2 "SOGsellsKS50Asharesat£1,200pershare3 totalling£60,000..."4 Doyouseethat?5 A.Ido.6 Q.Soit'sasortofcompositedealwherebyhegets7 a£42,000salary,hegetsthesharesfor£60,000.8 That'sright,isn'tit?9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Allpartofthatdeal.Andthenunderneaththatit11 says:12 "NewShareholdersAgreement/DeedofAdherence."13 Andthenyouhavegotthere:14 "NewJVA."15 Soyouarehopingtogetanewjointventure16 agreementsignedupbyMsBirdiandMrSingh.Isthat17 fair?18 A.Erm...yes,probably.19 Q.Andthenitsays:20 "MPTlevel:£19,700."21 What'sthat?22 A.Minimumperformancethreshold.23 Q.IsthattobeinsertedintothenewJVA?24 A.IthinkitwouldalreadybeintheexistingJVA.25 Q.Sothat'sasortofturnoverfigureforthebusiness‐‐

148

1 A.Yes.

2 Q.‐‐perweek?

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.Sothat's,bymyreckoning,£1millionayearturnover;

5 52weekstimes£19,700?

6 A.Ifyousayso,MrStuart.

7 Q.£20,000times50weekswouldbe£1million?

8 A.Correct.

9 Q.£19,700times52weekswouldbe£1million?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.SoitwaspartofthedealthatMrSinghwasgetting

12 intoacompanywhichhadaminimumturnoverlevelof

13 £1millionturnover;that'sright,isn'tit?Sowhen

14 Isaidtoyouthathewasbuyingthesesharesatabit

15 ofasnip,hewasbuyingthesharesatabitofasnip,

16 wasn'the?Becausetheseweresharesinacompanywhich

17 wasminimumexpectedtoturnover£1million?

18 A.Butbecauseastoretakes£1million,doesn'tmeanto

19 saythatthestoreisgoingtobeprofitable.

20 Q.No,ofcourse.Profitability‐‐

21 A.Becauseitrequiresreallygoodjointventurepartners

22 workingtogetherinordertodrivethebusinessforward,

23 whichisthewholeprincipleonwhichSpecsaversis

24 based.Sojustbecauseittakes£1million,doesn't

25 meantosayitwillmakemoney.



149

1 Q.Buttheanticipatedprofitsonaturnoverof£1million

2 wouldbewhat?Inyourexperienceasthe‐‐

3 A.Around10percent.

4 Q.So£100,000profit?

5 A.Yes.

6 Q.That'stheprofitthatisthenavailablefor

7 distribution?

8 A.It'snotnecessarilyavailablefordistribution‐‐

9 Q.Notnecessarily,butwearetalkinginroundterms?

10 A.Itisanumberminusalltheotherthingsthathaveto

11 bedoneinordertogettoadistributionpoint.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Isthat£100,000overandabovethe‐‐

13 A.Theirsalaries.

14 MRJUSTICENUGEE:‐‐basicsalariesfortheJVPs?

15 A.Correct.

16 MRSTUART:Soheisacquiringashareholdingthatwill,in

17 roughandroundterms,payabout£50,000worthof

18 profitsforhis50percentshareholding,andheis

19 acquiringitfor£60,000.That'sasnip.

20 A.Itwillonlypayhimout£50,000iftheprofitabilityis

21 thereandthatwillbedowntothepartnership,working

22 together,controllingcosts,runningthebusinesswell,

23 deliveringgreatservice,tradinghours,etcetera.So

24 thereisnoguaranteethatjustbecauseit's£1million

25 turnover,theyaregoingtomake£100,000profit.

150

1 Q.Noguarantee,no,butsolongashedidallthethings2 whichheshoulddo,andsolongashereceivedhis3 £42,000salaryfordoinghisactualwork?4 A.Yes.5 Q.AndsolongasMsBirdireceivedhersalaryfordoing6 heractualwork,andsolongastheydidn'thaveunusual7 items,like£65,000ofassistantmanager'scostsor8 £20,000worthofinvestigationcosts,hemighthave9 anticipatedprofitsof£100,000‐ish,split50/50with

10 hisjointventureAshareholder?11 A.Inthefuture,yes.12 Q.Soacquiringthosesharesfor£60,000,thatpay£50,00013 ayearpotentially,average,etcetera,thatisasnip,14 isn'tit?15 A.It'samotivationforthepartnershiptodowell.16 Q.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatit'samotivation‐‐17 thatis,thegivingtohimofthosesharesatsuch18 adiscountisamotivationtodowhattheseller‐‐19 here,SOG‐‐asksyoutodo?20 A.No,that'snottrue.21 Q.Andthatifthesellergivesyousharesatasnipand22 asalarylevelatahighpoint,andagreestosupport23 youinanythingyoudo,thatisanincentivetothendo24 whattheseller,SOG,wantsyoutodo?25 A.ThatisnotthecasehereatallandIdisagreewith

151

1 you.2 Q.Tothesameextentthatyoudisagreewithmethatwhen3 youboughtthesharesfromMrPatel,thatwasn'taplan4 ofaction?5 A.Thereisnoplan.There'snotaconspiracyatall.6 Neverhasbeen.I'venotbeenpartofone.Ihave7 actedinthebestinterestsofthebusinessinallmy8 decisions.9 Q.Youhaveactedinthebestinterestsofyourbusiness,

10 SOG;youhaven'tactedinthebestinterestsofthe11 company‐‐12 A.Thebestinterestsofthebusiness.Iwastalkingabout13 DartfordVisionplus,whenImadethatcomment.14 Q.Allright.Veryswiftly,justtofinishthisstatement.15 Atparagraph105yousay‐‐16 A.Isthatmywitnessstatement?17 Q.Yes,yourwitnessstatement.Doyouhaveit?18 A.Ihavegotit.19 Q.Fromthelastwordofline3,yousay:{C/9/112}20 "SOGneverintendedtoholdtheAsharesforthe21 longtermsoapurchaserwasalwaysrequired."22 Isuggesttoyouthat,giventheevidenceIhave23 showedyouthismorning,thatcan'tberight,canit?24 Youcertainlydid,atsomepoint,intendtoholdthe25 Asharesforthelong‐term?

152

1 A.No,wedidn't.2 Q.Youweregoingtoputitintogroupventureorshared3 venture?4 A.Iwasn'tgoingtoputitintoanything.Itmayhave5 endedupingroupventurebydefault,notbecausethere6 isaplantomakeitagroupventurestore.7 Q.Allright.8 A.Wedon'thavegroupventurestoresinthebusiness.9 Ipersonallyremovedthemallfromthebusinesswhen

10 Ijoinedbecausetheyarenotwellrun,theyarenot11 profitable,andthesharedventureandjointventure12 businessisthebestmodel.13 Q.Atparagraph107onpage113,{C/9/113}youdealwith14 theissueaboutMsBirdiraisingobjectiontoMrSingh15 becauseofhisinvolvementinmattersofdishonest16 activityrelatingtohistimeatanotherSpecsavers17 store.Doyourecallthat?18 A.Wheredoesitsay"dishonestactivity"?19 Q.Itdoesn'tuse‐‐inyourstatementitdoesn'tusethat,20 butyouhavesetoutwhatMsBirdi'sobjectionswereand21 weknow‐‐shewascross‐examinedaboutitandshown22 documents‐‐thatshehadputtoMsdelGrazia?23 A.Thisistodowithhis‐‐withMaidstoneorsomestore,24 manyyears‐‐sixorsevenyearsbefore?25 Q.That'sright,wherehisbrotherwastheJVP?



153

1 A.No.

2 Q.Whatdoyoumean,no?

3 A.NotinMaidstone.

4 Q.Okay.

5 A.Thisisanissuearoundlocumming,Ithinkiswhatyou

6 arereferringto.

7 Q.Okay.Wereyouawareoftheissueinwhichhewas

8 involvedwithhisbrother,wherehisbrotherwasaJVP?

9 Wereyounotawareofthat?

10 A.Iwasawareofthat,yes.

11 Q.WasthatnotpartofMsBirdi'sobjectionstoMrSingh?

12 A.IknowthatMsBirdiwroteonfourorfiveoccasions

13 withregardtothisandCristinadelGraziawroteback

14 toher.Ican'tremembertheissuesthatMsBirdi

15 raised.

16 Q.Okay.Yousee,thewayyouhaveputithereisthat‐‐

17 I'mreadingfromthefourthlinefromthebottom:

18 {C/9/113}

19 "Eveniftherewasanysupportingdetail,Ididnot

20 considerittobeofsufficientimportance..."

21 Doyouseethat?

22 A.IwasawareoftheGraysscenarioandIdidn'tbelieve

23 thatitwasofimportanceinmydecision‐making.

24 Q.Itappearssomethingofawhitewashyouareconducting

25 here.Youarejustignoringallegationsagainst

154

1 MrSingh?

2 A.No,IamconsideringthoseallegationsthatMsBirdiis

3 raisingandMsBirdiisgettingresponsesbackthrough

4 CristinadelGraziatothequestionsthatsheraises.

5 Q.Well,sheisnotactually,isshe?Specsaverssay,

6 "It'snotamatterforyou"?

7 A.Itwasaprivatemattertodowiththedirectorin

8 Grays.

9 Q.Exactly.SoMsBirdiwasnotbeingtoldthetruth.She

10 wasnotbeinggiventheinformation?

11 A.Shewasn'tbeinggiventheinformationbecauseIdidn't

12 believethatitwasrelevant,becauseit'stodowith

13 anotherstoresomethreeyearspriortoMrSingh

14 purchasingsharesinDartford.

15 Q.Well,thisisamatterofappointinganewAdirector

16 andyouwereactuallygoingtoaskMsBirditoenter

17 intoajointventureagreementwithhim,weren'tyou,

18 anewJVA?Shewasgoingtosignuptoanewagreement

19 tobeapartnerwithhim?

20 A.Idon'tknowaboutanewJVA.Ithinkit'sanexisting

21 jointventureagreement.

22 Q.Ijusttookyoutothedocument,andtheplanwasto

23 signanewJVA.ShewasinfactaskedtosignanewJVA

24 almostimmediatelyafterwards?

25 A.ThisdocumentIhaven'tseenuntilyou'veshowedmenow.

155

1 It'snotadocumentthatInowreferto.Ijust‐‐

2 Ijust‐‐whenI'mtalkingtoMikeRyanandwetalkat

3 ahighlevelaboutwhatactivitywearegoingtodo‐‐

4 thisisMikeRyan'sjob;thisisthedetailbehindit.

5 Q.Shewasentitledtoknowthematerialfactsregarding

6 any‐‐

7 A.Idon'tagreewiththat.Idon'tagreewiththat‐‐if

8 there'dhavebeenanythingmaterialwewouldhaveshowed

9 itwithMsBirdi.WhathappenedinGrayswasthree

10 yearsbeforeandwasnot‐‐wasamattertodowiththe

11 GraysstoreandhadnoimplicationsontheDartford

12 store.

13 Q.Youweregoingtogethertobecomeapartnerwith

14 aperson,aboutwhomshehadheardthatthereweretwo

15 matterspotentiallyinvolvingsomedishonestactivityon

16 hispart?

17 A.AndIconsideredMsBirdi'squestionsandIdidn't

18 believethatthey‐‐thatitwasrelevant.

19 Q.Skippingonto‐‐

20 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,ifyouaremovingonto

21 anothertopic?

22 MRSTUART:Iam,myLord,yes.

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Wewilltakeafiveminutes'break.

24 (3.15pm)

25 (Shortbreak)

156

1 (3.23pm)


3 MRSTUART:So,MrDyson,wehavealmostreachtheendof

4 yourfirststatementhere.Paragraphs113throughto

5 117{C/9/114}areallaboutMrSingh'sincreasedsalary

6 andbonuspayments,andthesearethebonuspayments

7 thatyoualsorefertoinyoursecondwitnessstatement.

8 Yousetthemoutinmoredetail.The£2,500aquarter,

9 doyouremember?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Andobviouslythesalaryincreasewhichyoureferto

12 there.

13 Yourjustificationforthesesumsis,as

14 Iunderstandit,inparagraphs115and116.Yousay:

15 {C/9/115}

16 "...MrSinghhadshowngreatcommitmenttohis

17 role..."

18 115?

19 A.Yes.

20 Q."...asaRetailJVPandinimprovingtheperformanceof

21 Dartfordsincehehadjoined.Onthatbasis

22 Iconsideredthathewasentitledtotheusualannual

23 increaseof5percent..."

24 Areyousuggestingthattherewassomestandard

25 5percentsalaryincreasethatappliestoallJVPsin



157

1 thecountrywheretheyhaveshowngreatcommitmentand

2 improvedperformance?

3 A.No,whatI'msuggestingisthatthe‐‐wehave‐‐

4 Ithinkwehaveexplainedwehaveacapandthatcapis

5 the‐‐at£50,000,whichis,youknow,apointatwhich

6 wewon'tgobeyond.Butifpartnerswishtoapplyfor

7 payrisesonanannualbasis,wenormallywillallowup

8 to5percentinayear.

9 Q.Allright.MsBirdihadn'treceivedanypayrises,had

10 she?

11 A.From?

12 Q.Atall.

13 A.No,MsBirdihasneverappliedforapayrise,even

14 thoughshewassentdocumentationwhichshecouldhave

15 used,IthinkfromMrMooreorMrKidd.

16 Q.Okay.Youaresuggestingthatit'ssomehowdueto

17 improvedperformance.ThisisinJuly2010yousayyou

18 areanalysingthis;July2010?

19 A.The5percentappliedfor,yes,2010.

20 Q.Soyouwerehavingthisthoughttoyourselfaboutwhy

21 youwerejustifyingpayinghimasalaryincreaseasyou

22 werethinkingaboutitinJuly2010?

23 A.AsIwasthinkingaboutit?

24 Q.Yes.HaveIunderstoodyourevidencecorrectlythatyou

25 werethinkingofgivinghimthispayriseinJuly2010,

158

1 soyouwerelookingatthefigures,forexample,ofhis

2 performance‐‐

3 A.No,Idon'tthinkthat'sright.Ithinkwhathappened

4 wasisMrSinghsentaletterin,askingforapayrise.

5 IwasthenaskedbyAlisonGirollet,astheSOG

6 Bshareholder,toconsidertheletter.

7 Clearly,Iwasn'tgoingtopaythemoneythat

8 MrSinghhadwanted,butIdidgiveitconsiderationas

9 tothefactthathehadn'thadapayriseintheperiod

10 oftimethathehadbeenadirector.Theperformanceof

11 thebusinesshadgoneupandindeedthedividendswhich

12 bothheandMsBirdienjoyedhadalsogoneup

13 significantly.

14 Hewasmanagingthestoreonhisown,without

15 asecondpartner,becausethisisatwo‐partnerstore,

16 andIfeltthatapplyingaretrospectivepayriseto

17 him,forbothJuly2010and2011,wasappropriate.

18 Q.WouldyoubepassedbundleD2.Canyougotopage365.

19 {D/27/365}365?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Doyouhaveit?

22 That'stheprofitandlossaccountsconsolidatedfor

23 DartfordSpecsaversLimited.Doyousee?

24 A.Yes.

25 Q.Andwecanseethatisfortheyearended

159

1 30September2010.SobyJuly2010,youweretenmonths

2 intothatyear;youstillhadanothermonthuntilthe

3 endofAugust,anothermonthuntiltheendofSeptember,

4 butyouweretenoutoftwelvemonthsoftheyear.

5 Wecanseethatforthatperiod,up

6 toSeptember2010,theturnoverwas£1.193million,

7 whereasthepreviousyear,ithadbeen£1.218million,

8 hadn'tit?

9 A.Correct.

10 Q.AndtheprofitfortheperiodtoSeptember2010,ifwe

11 taketheprofitonordinaryactivitiesbeforetaxation

12 figure,it's£16,225fortheyear,whereasforthe

13 previousyear,ithadbeen£140,842.

14 Soactually,hisperformanceatthis

15 time,July2010,wasn'tparticularlygood,wasit?In

16 fact,itwasprettycalamitous.Turnoverdownand

17 profitsdownby90percent?

18 A.Butthe5percentpayriseisnotbasedonthe

19 profitabilityofthestore;that'sarequestthatthe

20 directorscanputinonanannualbasisandwewill

21 considerthatandwewillnormallypaya5percent

22 increase,aslongasitdoesn'tgoabovethecap.

23 Q.No.At115,{C/9/115}yousaid:

24 "IconsideredthatMrSinghhadshowngreat

25 commitmenttohisrole..."

160

1 I'msureyoudidconsiderthat,but:2 "...andinimprovingtheperformanceofDartford3 sincehehadjoined.OnthatbasisIconsideredhewas4 entitledtotheusualannualincreaseof5percentto5 commencefromJuly2010..."6 Soactually,readingthat,youmusthaveactually7 decidedthatabitafter.Thewaythewordsareused8 there,itmusthavebeenafterhehadbeenmanagingthe9 storeonhisownthatyoumadethatdecision.Wouldyou

10 agree?11 A.CanIjustreadit?12 Q.Yes.(Pause)13 Infact,wecancutmuchquickercan'twe?Ishould14 havetakenyoutoparagraph114.{C/9/114}.15 Wecanseewhenyouwereconsideringthis.Youwere16 actuallyconsideringitinSeptember2011.17 September2011,soyouhadthefullyear'sprofitand18 lossaccountstoSeptember2010.Youmusthavedone.19 Soyoumusthaveseenthat2010wasapooryear:20 turnoverdown,profitsdownby90percent.21 Soonwhatbasisdoyouconsiderthathis22 performancewassuchastojustifyasubstantialpay23 increase,backdatedbyoverayear?24 A.Ithinkitsaysitinmystatement,whichsays‐‐25 Q.No,itjustsaysduetohisperformance.I'masking



161

1 you,whatabouthisperformance?2 A.Well,hehadbeenmanagingthestoreonhisown,3 single‐handedly.4 Q.Yes,withtheassistanceoflocums,dealingwithallof5 MsBirdi's‐‐6 A.That'snot‐‐thelocumisnotthesameashaving7 anotherpartnerhelpingyoutorunthestore,sharing8 theburden,thelonghours,andprobablyworkingsix9 daysaweek,ratherthanfivedaysaweek,whateverit

10 takes.Soitwasrewardinghimforhimworking11 extremelyhardonhisown,runningthestore,whichwas12 atwo‐partnerstore.Andhehadn'thadapayincrease13 sincehejoined.14 Q.Allright.Okay.Canwemoveswiftlyontotheappeal.15 Youconductedtheappeal.Asyourightlyputitatthe16 endofparagraph120ofyourstatement,youarenot17 intendingtocommentonitatlength.{C/9/116}Doyou18 seethat?19 A.Yes,I'vegotthat.20 Q.Soyoujustbasicallysummarisedyourappeal.Canyou21 gotobundleE‐‐IthinkitisE15?22 A.CanIgetridofanyofthese,MrStuart?23 Q.Yes,getridofeverything.WecanmovetoE15.24 A.Andapagetogoto,MrStuart?25 Q.4192,Ithink,isyourdecision.

162

1 A.4192.{E/1068/4192}

2 Q.Itendsat4199withyoursignature.{E/1068/4199}

3 A.Sorry.Yes.

4 Q.Youhavesaidatparagraph118inyourstatement

5 {C/9/115}thattheinvestigationwasdonebyMrClark.

6 Thisisthe2010investigation?

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.Itakeitfromthefactthatthereisnomentionofyou

9 inthiswitnessstatementbeinginvolvedinanywayin

10 the2008/2009issuesbetweenMrSinghandMsBirdithat

11 weheardaboutatlengthduringcross‐examinationof

12 them‐‐sothat'sthefourdays'testingissueandthe

13 allegationandcounter‐allegation,etcetera?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Itakeityoupersonallyhadnoparttoplayinanyof

16 that?

17 A.No,notatall.

18 Q.Presumably,fromthepointwhenMrSinghwasappointed

19 anAdirectorbackin2008,youpersonallytookastep

20 backfromallofthis,didyou,becauseyouwereno

21 longerhavingtoactasSOGAdirector?

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.SoyouratherleftittotheAdirectorsandthenthe

24 BdirectorsappointedbySOG‐‐

25 A.Correct.

163

1 Q.‐‐atthetime.Sowecanseetheirnamesappearing.

2 MrRoweatonepointbecomesanappointedBdirector;

3 DameMaryPerkins?

4 A.Correct.

5 Q.MrRaines.Isthatright?

6 A.Itsoundsaboutright,yes.

7 Q.Yes.DoIunderstand,fromthefactthattheredoesn't

8 appeartobeanythinginyourwitnessstatementabout

9 that,thatyoupersonally,forwhateverreason,just

10 didn'tgetinvolvedinthatperiod?

11 A.Ididn't,no.

12 Q.Okay.Soyoureallyonlythenbecomeinvolved,asyou

13 say,inDecember2010.Thereisanappealagainstthe

14 disciplinaryfindingsofMrClarkandoverseenby

15 DawnMcIntyre.Andyounowcomebackinvolved;youare

16 toheartheappeal?

17 A.That'scorrect.

18 Q.Isay,"heartheappeal".Therewasnohearing;you

19 justmadeyourdecisionswithoutactuallyhearing

20 MsBirdiinperson?

21 A.No,becauseMsBirdicancelledthe‐‐attendingthe

22 hearingthathadbeenorganised.

23 Q.Yes.Whywereyouchosentohearthisappeal?

24 A.BecauseI'mSOG'sretaildirector.

25 Q.True,but‐‐

164

1 A.Andthemajorityoftheissuesareallaroundretailing.2 Q.Ah,butthemajorityoftheissues,ifyoulike,ifyou3 havereadtheappealandyouhavereadeverythingthat4 leduptothatappeal‐‐5 A.Ididreadallthereports,includingMrClark'sreport.6 Q.Absolutely.7 A.DawnMcIntyre'sreport.8 Q.Itinvolvedallthethingsgoingback‐‐accordingto9 MsBirdi,goingbackto2007,didn'tit?Shewastrying

10 tore‐open‐‐11 A.Correct.12 Q.‐‐aspartofherappealallthosethingsbackin2007?13 A.Thathadbeeninvestigatedanddecisionsmade,14 etcetera,yes.15 Q.Whichallinvolvedmembersofyourteam,ifyoulike?16 A.Yes.17 Q.2008and2009.Whyyou,personally?Whywereyou18 chosen?19 A.Ican't‐‐Ican'tanswerthequestion.Ican't20 remember‐‐atthetime‐‐Ihavegivenyoumy21 suggestionisthatI'mtheretaildirectorand22 responsibleforstores,partners,partnerships,23 etcetera,andI'mnormallyanindividualthatgets24 involvedinthesemattersaspartofmyjob.25 Q.Whochoseyou?



165

1 A.IthinkIhavejustansweredthequestionbeforeand

2 thatwas,Ithink,Iwasnominatedbecauseof‐‐but

3 Idon'tknow‐‐Idon't‐‐

4 Q.Sorry,youdidn'thearthequestion:whochoseyou?

5 A.Idon'tknow.

6 Q.Whichboardofwhichcompanyappointedyoutodothis?

7 A.Idon'tknow.Idon'tthinkany‐‐

8 Q.Orwhichdirectorofwhichcompanyappointedyoutodo

9 it?Ordidyouappointyourselfbecauseyouwerethe

10 directorofSOG?

11 A.No,Ithink‐‐IthinkIwasappointedtohearthe

12 appealbyVisionplus,DartfordVisionplus,butthat's

13 somethinginmymind.

14 Q.Didyouhaveanydiscussionwithanybody‐‐andI'mnot

15 talkingaboutlegaladvicenow‐‐anydiscussionamongst

16 anydirectorsofanycompaniesaboutwhowouldbethe

17 mostappropriatepersontohearthisappeal?

18 A.No.

19 Q.GiventhewidenatureofwhatMsBirdiwassayingand

20 thepeoplethatshewassayingitagainst‐‐shewas

21 makingallegationsbeginsMrMcAlindon,wasn'tshe?

22 A.Correct.

23 Q.Thatwasthestartofitall.Andagainstwhatyouhad

24 done,backin2007,becauseatthattimeyouwereSOG,

25 actingasAdirector,andallthosecostsandcharges

166

1 andeverythingshewantedtosayaboutthat.

2 ShewantedtobringintheappointmentofMrSingh;

3 that's2008.Thatwasreallyonyoursayso,wasn'tit?

4 Andyourfinalsayso?

5 A.Finalsayso,yes.

6 Q.Andifitwasn'tyou,thenitwasyoursubordinates,

7 MrRyanandMrRaines,whodidthat,whoputthattoyou

8 foryoutoapprove?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.SotherewasalltheimpositionofMrSinghandthen

11 therewasthesupportofMrSingh,soshesaid,the

12 biasedsupportofMrSingh,throughout2008and2009.

13 Doyourecall?Thatwasalsoallpartofher...

14 Now,allofthoseaspectsofthematterthatshesaw

15 ascentraltoherappealandasbeingreallythemotive

16 behindallofthis,theyreallyallcameunderyour

17 supervision,didn'tthey,allofthosethings?

18 A.Inthemain.

19 Q.So,surely,youarejudgeandjuryonatrialwhere

20 really,it'syouandyourdepartmentswhoarefacingthe

21 allegations,sofarasshewasconcerned?

22 A.IcanunderstandwhythatmightbeMsBirdi'sview.

23 Q.SoofallthepeopleinallofSOG,perhapsyouwerethe

24 leastappropriateperson,ifweweretryingtofind

25 afairandunbiasedappealtribunal,whichiswhatyour

167

1 SOGpoliciessayaremostimportantinthedisciplinary2 process:atallstages,fairandunbiased.Doyou3 remember?4 A.Yes.5 Q.It'snotfairandyouarenotunbiasedwhenitcomesto6 dealingwiththeallegationsthatformedthebasisof7 MsBirdi'sappealandhergeneralcomplaintshere.You8 areneitherfairnorunbiased,areyou?9 A.Youmaysaythat.IthinkIamfairandIthinkIam

10 unbiased.11 Q.Areyousurethatyoudon'trecallhowitwasthatyou12 cametobeappointed,andthatitwasasaresultof13 adecisionoftheboardofSOGtoensurethatthiswas14 thefinalnailinthecoffin?15 A.Notatall.16 Q.Right.Very,veryswiftly,althoughyouarenot17 commentingonallthedetailofit,yousayat18 paragraph122thatyou:{C/9/116}19 "...discussedthepointsofappealfurtherwith20 MrMooreofSOG'sLegalDepartment..."21 A.Correct.22 Q.That'swhatyousay:23 "...inoraroundMarch2011..."24 I'mnotingtheuseofwordsthere:25 "...beforereachingmydecision."

168

1 Doyouactuallyhaveanyrecollectionnowofsitting

2 downandgoingthrougheachofthesepointsofappeal

3 yourself‐‐

4 A.Absolutely‐‐

5 Q.‐‐ratherthanleavingittothelegaldepartmentto

6 draftsomethingforyou?

7 A.‐‐Ihavegot100percentrecollection.

8 Q.Okay.I'mgoingtosuggesttoyouthatpage4192

9 throughtopage4199wasdraftedforyouandthatyou

10 didn'teithertypeordictate‐‐{E/1068/4192}

11 A.No,Iwasgiven‐‐Iwasgivenalloftheinformationby

12 MrMoore.

13 Q.Yes.

14 A.Iconsultedwithhim,whichwecan't‐‐wewon'tgo

15 into.

16 Q.No.

17 A.AndthatwasaroundFebruary,becausewethoughtwe'd

18 gotanappealtodealwithonaface‐to‐facebasiswith

19 MsBirdi.Itwasthen‐‐obviouslythatwasn'tgoingto

20 happen,andIspentthreeorfourweeksworkingmyway

21 throughallofthepaperworkthatMrMoorehadprovided

22 me,whichwasDavidClark'sreport,DawnMcIntyre's

23 report,theboard‐‐meetingwiththeboardinwhich‐‐

24 whereMsBirdiwassacked,MsBirdi'sletterofappeal.

25 SoIhadquiteabitofdocumentationandItookmy



169

1 timetoworkmywaythroughthat.Ididconsultwith

2 MrMooreonmanyoccasionsandthenIreachedmy

3 decision.

4 Q.Hm‐mm.That'snotactuallywhatIaskedyou.Iasked

5 youwhetherthisdocumenthere,4192to4199,wereyour

6 wordsorthosedraftedforyou,andI'msuggestingto

7 youtheyarenotyourwords;theyweredraftedforyou?

8 A.AndItookmytimetogothroughthis,consultedwith

9 Legalandthisismyfindings.

10 Q.Thisis?

11 A.Thesearemyfindings.Thesearemywords.

12 Q.Sohowdidyoucometodraftthisdocument?Didyou

13 typeityourself?

14 A.No.

15 Q.No.Didyougiveittoyoursecretaryforhertotype?

16 A.No,itwasprobably‐‐itwasprobablyhandwrittenat

17 thetime.

18 Q.Soyoumademanuscriptnotesagainstyourpack‐‐you

19 saidinyourstatementyouhadgotapackofmaterials?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Thatwasinparagraph122:{C/9/116}

22 "Iwasprovidedwithapack..."

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Soyoumademanuscriptnoteshavinggonethroughallthe

25 materials,reachingcertainconclusionsinmanuscript,

170

1 andthat'ssortoftheendofyournotesofyourappeal

2 decision?

3 A.Yes.

4 Q.Andthen‐‐

5 A.Andthen‐‐

6 Q.‐‐thosesomehowturnintothis‐‐

7 A.AndthenlongconversationswithMrMoore.

8 Q.Yes,andlongconversationswithMrMoore,whichIdon't

9 wanttogointo.

10 A.No.

11 Q.Butsomehow,yourmanuscriptnotes‐‐whichwouldrunto

12 howmanypages,roughly?

13 A.Well,therewould‐‐therewouldhavebeenlotsofnotes

14 ontheactualdocumentationandIwouldhavebeen

15 pickinguppointsandwritingthemdownasIwasgoing

16 throughthedocumentsfollowingtheappealthatMsBirdi

17 madeinalogicalorder,workingmywaythroughthe

18 pointsthatshewasraising.

19 Q.Yes.Now,yourpack,withyourmanuscriptannotations

20 showingthatyouactuallyaddressedyourmindtoanyof

21 this‐‐whereisthatpackwithyourmanuscript

22 annotations?

23 A.Ihavegotnoidea.

24 Q.Whatdidyoudowithitwhenyouhad‐‐becauseit's

25 obviouslyaveryimportantdocument.Youknewthat

171

1 therewasadisputearisinghere,didn'tyou?

2 A.Therewasadispute.Thiswasanappeal.

3 Q.Yes,itwasanappealagainstherdismissal.

4 A.Sothatwouldhavebeengiventothelegalteam.

5 Q.What,thepack?Youhandedthepackbacktothelegal

6 team?

7 A.Allof‐‐allofmynotesandallofmyannotations

8 wouldthengotothelegalteam;yes.

9 Q.Right.Sodoyouknowwhathashappenedtothemsince?

10 A.No.

11 Q.No.

12 MRPOTTS:MyLord,anissueofprivilegeisassertedandis

13 reliedupon.

14 MRSTUART:Theseareannotationsthatyoumadeinyour

15 capacityasthedecideroftheappeal;annotationsthat

16 youmade?

17 MRPOTTS:Ifmyfriendisaskingforalegalargumentabout

18 it,Iwillgivehimone.

19 MRSTUART:No,no,I'mnotaskingforanylegalargument;

20 I'maskingforclarificationastofactssothatwecan

21 seewhetheranysubsequentlegalargumenthasanybasis

22 whatsoever.

23 MRPOTTS:Well,MrDysonisentitledtotakelegaladvice.

24 MRSTUART:Yes,andIamnotaskingfordocuments

25 relating‐‐

172

1 MRPOTTS:Andthecompany‐‐thisisnot

2 DartfordVisionplus.Thecompanyhasnotbeencharged

3 forthatlegaladvice.Heisentitledtoreceiveadvice

4 fromSOG'sinternallegaldepartmentandhetooksuch

5 advice.

6 MRJUSTICENUGEE:ButIthoughtthatwhatMrStuartwas

7 askingaboutwashismanuscriptdraftofthedecisionon

8 theappeal,togetherwithannotationshehadmade?

9 MRPOTTS:MyLord,therehasbeendiscussionwith‐‐

10 Idon'tknowifnowistheappropriatetime,butthere

11 hasbeenadiscussionaboutthemethodologyinrelation

12 totheproduction‐‐


14 MRPOTTS:MrDysonhasconfirmedthatthisrepresentshis

15 end,theendproduct,anditrepresentshisviewsand

16 hisfindingsontheappeal.Communications,theback

17 andforthofcommunicationswithlawyersinrelationto

18 theproductionofthat,isamatterinrespectof‐‐

19 thebackofforthofcommunications,thegivingand

20 takingoflegaladviceinrelationtoamatter,is

21 amatterinrelationtowhichprivilegemayproperlybe

22 asserted.

23 MRSTUART:Idon'twantthebackandforthof

24 communications.MrDysonhas‐‐

25 MRPOTTS:Myfriendisaskingforthebackandforth.



173

1 MRSTUART:No,I'mnot.

2 MRPOTTS:MrStuartisaskingforthebackandforth.

3 MRSTUART:No,I'mnot.

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrStuart,whatareyouaskingfor?

5 MRSTUART:AsIunderstandyourevidence,MrDyson,itis

6 thatyouwerethedirectorwhoconsideredthisappeal?

7 A.Correct.

8 Q.Youarethedecisionmaker.Yousaythatyouhadapack

9 ofmaterial,giventoyouastheappealdecisionmaker?

10 A.That'scorrect.

11 Q.Andthatyoumademanuscriptannotationsofyourownon

12 thatpackaspartofyourdecision‐makingprocess?

13 A.Correct.

14 Q.Youthen‐‐

15 MRPOTTS:MyLord,sorry,theadditionalpointIshould

16 make,justfrom(inaudible)thebackground,isthat

17 thereisadversariallitigationinvolvingMsBirdiand

18 shehascommencedemploymenttribunalproceedings.

19 MRSTUART:That'sright,andinthoseemployment

20 tribunal‐‐

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes,Iwasawareofthat.

22 MRPOTTS:Yes.

23 MRJUSTICENUGEE:ButIthinkatthemoment,thereisstill

24 alackofclarityastowhatdocumentitisthat

25 MrDysonisreferringtoandtowhatextentthat

174

1 encompassesprivilegedmaterial.AndIthinkthat's

2 whatMrStuartistryingtoclarifyatthemoment.

3 Atthemoment,Ihaven'theardanyquestionsasking

4 forthecontentofthatmaterial,butjustwhatitis,

5 andIthinkMrStuartcancontinuetotryandelucidate

6 fromMrDysonwhatdocumentarymaterialexisted,and

7 thenwewillseewherewegofromthere.

8 MRPOTTS:MyLord,it'squiteafineline,buttheredoes

9 comeapointwhere,whenaskingaboutthenatureof

10 adocument,thatgivesaninsightinrelationtothe

11 contentsofthedocument.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Well,IthinkIamgoingtoaskMrDyson

13 somequestions.

14 Myunderstandingoftheanswersyouhavealready

15 givenMrStuartisyoureceivedapackofmaterialto

16 considerwhenconsideringtheappeal?

17 A.Correct.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Youmadenotesonthatpackofmaterial

19 inrelationtothematterswhicharoseontheappeal?

20 A.Correct.

21 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Whenyouweremakingthosenotes,was

22 thatyourownthoughtprocess,orwasthatsomethingon

23 whichyouweretakinglegaladvice,beforeoratthe

24 timeofmakingthenotes?

25 A.Iwouldhavereviewedthedocumentation,madenotesand

175

1 startedtoformmyownopinion,andthenIwouldconsult

2 withthelegalteam.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Therecomesastageatwhichyouaskthe

4 lawyers,butbeforethatstage,youmakeyourown

5 considerationofthematterswhichappearontheappeal?

6 A.Correct.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.AndIthinktheotherquestionis:

8 doyouknowwhathashappenedtothelegalpackof

9 material‐‐thepackofmaterialyoureceivedonwhich

10 youstartedmakingyournotes?

11 A.Ihavenoidea.

12 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Right.

13 MrStuart,doyouwanttotakethisanyfurther?

14 MRSTUART:MyLord,yes,Iwanttojusttakeitonfrom

15 there.

16 Leaveasidethepackwithyournoteson,sothese

17 arepiecesofpaperwithyourmanuscriptnotesonthem;

18 fromanotheranswerthatyougaveIthoughtyouwere

19 alsosayingthatyouthenproducedforyourself‐‐for

20 yourself,notforthelegaldepartment,foryourself‐‐

21 somesortofstructureddecision‐makinginrelationto

22 allthepointsmade‐‐

23 A.No.

24 Q.‐‐inmanuscript?

25 A.No.

176

1 Q.Youdidn'tdothat?

2 A.No.

3 Q.Fine.Soit'sjustyournotesonthepackthatformany

4 documentaryevidenceofyouhavingyourselfaddressed

5 theissuesthatwereputtoyoubyMsBirdi?

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.Westartedallofthisonthebasisofthisisyour

8 document,thisdocumenthere,signedoffbyyou;okay?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Andifyoutellmethatthisdocumentwasdraftedfor

11 you,asaresultoflegaladvice,thenIwillnotask

12 youanymoreaboutit.If,ontheotherhand,yousay,

13 "No,Idrafted,"or,"Icausedtobedrafted"thewords

14 setoutherebysomeotherpeoplewhophysicallytyped

15 themup,thenIwillaskyouaboutit.

16 So,didyoudraftthewordssetouthereornot?

17 A.Intheprocessofcomingtomydecision,whichwasdone

18 overquiteaconsiderableamountoftime‐‐because

19 Ithinkitwasaboutthreeorfourweeksofdoingit‐‐

20 Iwouldhavedealtwiththeissuesanddoneannotations,

21 madesomenotesandthenIwouldhavethenwenttothe

22 legalteamtotalktothemabouttheprocessIwasgoing

23 throughandtogetadvice‐‐

24 Q.Idon'twanttoknowwhatadviceyougot.I'mnot

25 askingbutit.Buttheremusthavecomeastagewhere



177

1 someonedraftedthisdocument?2 A.Thatwouldhavecomefromthelegalteam.3 Q.Fine.That'stheanswerthen.4 Areyousuggestingthatalltheargumentssetoutin5 hereareyourownarguments,theargumentsinrebuttal6 ofthepointsofappeal?7 A.Yes.8 Q.So,forexample,ifwejusttakeoneexample,thelast9 page,4199{E/1068/4199},thereisanargumentabout

10 theinterpretationofclause9.2ofMsBirdi'sservice11 contract.Doyouseethat?12 A.Ido.13 Q.Andthecounter‐argumentisputinthefifthparagraph:14 "Idonotagreewithyourassertion..."15 Soit'swrittenasifbyyou?16 A.Correct.17 Q."Idon'tagreewithyourassertionthatthe18 circumstancesofyourdismissalbyDVLfallsunderthe19 scopeofclause9.2.However,inanyeventclause9.220 isnotanexhaustivelistoftheonlypossiblereasons21 whyaJVPcouldeverbedismissed'withimmediate22 effect',ieeitherwithnonoticepay,orwithpayin23 lieuofnotice.Contrarytoyoursuggestion,itisdoes24 ..."25 I'mnotsurewhat'sgoneonthere:

178

1 "...itisdoesnotsaythattheonlysituations2 whereDVLcouldeverdismissaJVPwithpayinlieuof3 noticearethefoursituationsin9.21‐9.24.Rather,4 clause9.2issimplyanillustrativelistofsome5 situationswhich'may'leadtodismissal."6 Areyousayingthat'syourpersonalargument?7 A.That'smypersonalargumentbasedonexperience,8 rememberingthisisnotthefirstappealthatI'vedone.9 IhaveworkedforTescofor27/28years.Iknowthat

10 youputintodocumentsthingsthatareillustrativebut11 arenotnecessarilyexhaustiveintermsofwhatcanbe12 broughtinthesecircumstances.13 Q.Yes.Butdidyouyourselfthenaddressher‐‐didyou14 gotoherservicecontract?15 A.DidIgotoherservice‐‐16 Q.Yes,didyoupickupherservicecontract,lookat17 clause9.2,startlookingatthesubclauses,9.2.1.We18 finditinbundleD1atpage17{D/3/17}.Areyou19 suggestingthisisyourargument?20 A.D1?21 Q.D1,page17.Doyouseeit?That'sMsBirdi'sservice22 contract.Page15,theheadsheet.Andclause9.223 appearsonpage17.Doyouseethat:24 "9.2Thecompanymaybynoticeterminatethis25 agreementwithimmediateeffectiftheexecutiveshall

179

1 "9.2.1commitanyactofgrossmisconduct..."2 Doyouseethat?3 A.Ido.4 Q."...or5 "9.2.2beguiltyofanyconductwhichinthe6 reasonableopinionoftheboardbringshimorthe7 companyintoseriousdisrepute..."8 A.Yes.9 Q."...or

10 "9.2.3beconvictedofanycriminaloffence...or11 "9.2.4commitanyactofdishonestywhetherrelating12 tothecompanyoranyofitsemployeesorotherwise."13 A.ButMsBirdispecificallyraisesthisissueinher14 appeal,soIwenttothespecificareathatsheraised15 inherappeal.16 Q.Didyou?Youhadherservicecontract,didyou?17 A.Idon'tknowifitwasherservicecontract.Iwould18 havehadatleastapieceofpaperwiththaton.19 Ican'tsaytoyouitwasMsBirdi'sbutitwouldhave20 beenashareholder'sagreement.21 Q.Okay.Andsothiswasyourargument,whereitsays:22 "However,inanyeventclause9.2notanexhaustive23 listoftheonlypossiblereasonswhyaJVPcouldever24 bedismissed'withimmediateeffect'..."25 A.Thatisbasedon40yearsofexperienceindealingwith

180

1 thesethingsthroughretailanddealingwithemployment2 lawissues,dealingwithtribunals,knowingthatyouput3 downexamplesofwhatitmaybebutthelistisn't4 alwaysexhaustiveandthereareotherthingsthatmay5 causepeopletoterminateemployment.6 Q.Sothat'syourinterpretationofthatclauseofthat7 agreement,thatit'sanon‐exhaustivelist?8 A.Itis.9 Q.Allright.Paragraph124yousay:{C/9/117}

10 "Therewasnothingnewformetoconsideronthe11 appeal."12 Youeffectively,don'tyou,supporteveryoneof13 MrClark'sandMsMcIntyre'sdecisions?14 A.Yes,therewasnothingbecauseMsBirdididn'tattend15 theappealtogivemeanyotherevidence,otherthanher16 appealletter.17 Q.Butthatwasaverylongletter,wasn'tit?18 A.Sorry?19 Q.Thatwasaverylongletter,herappealletter?20 A.Yes.21 Q.Doyourememberitatall?22 A.Ido.Ihavethatasacopy,whichwas‐‐Iworkedmy23 waythrough.ItwassenttoAlisonGirollet.24 Q.Page4132rightthroughtopage4138.{E/1056/3132}25 A.WhichpackamIin,sorry?



181

1 Q.Sorry,youarestillinE15.That'stheonlyoneyou

2 needtohave,E15.

3 A.4...?

4 Q....132throughto4138.

5 A.Yes,gotit.

6 Q.Shehadsetoutforyou,hadn'tshe,averylargeamount

7 ofexamplesofthemistreatmentthatshehadsuffered,

8 etcetera,etcetera?

9 A.Yes.

10 Q.Andyouaresayingyouconsideredallofthatbutsimply

11 cametotheconclusionthattherewasnothingnew?

12 A.No,mostofthishadbeendealtwithbyeither

13 DavidClarkorMsMcIntyreatapointinthepastwhen

14 theyweredoingtheirowninvestigations.

15 Q.Okay.Wouldyougofinallytheninyourfirstwitness

16 statements,undertheheading"Conclusion",

17 paragraph126.{C/9/117}Yousay:

18 "TheallegationthatSOGhadadesiretoremove

19 MsBirdifromtheDartfordbusinessisfalse."

20 A.That'strue.

21 Q.Butit'snotthepoint,right,isit?Wehaveseenthe

22 evidencethatyoudidhaveanintentionatsomepointto

23 removeherfromthebusinesssothatyouwouldhavethe

24 shares‐‐

25 A.Youkeepsayingthat,MrStuart.Idon'trecognisewhat

182

1 youaresayingorwherethereferenceis.Therewas

2 neveranyintentiononmybehalftodoanythingother

3 thanmanagethiswholeprocessfurther,andtherewasno

4 intentiontogetridofMsBirdiatall.

5 Q.Butthedocumentaryevidencefrommembersofyourshared

6 ventureteamandfrommembersofyourbusinesstransfer

7 team‐‐

8 A.Butthesearepeoplethatarenotinmakingdecisions.

9 Idon'tknowwhytheydidit.Idon'tknowwhattheir

10 motivationwasincarryingoutthatsurvey.Ican't

11 comment.Ineversawit,wasnotinvolvedinit.Ican

12 onlytalkaboutatmylevelwhatIwasdoingandhow

13 Iwasperformingmyduties,andIneverhadany

14 intentionatalltoremoveMsBirdifromthebusiness.

15 Q.Buttheyallworkedforyou‐‐thatsharedventuresteam

16 andthebusinesstransferteamworkedandreportedto

17 you‐‐

18 A.Iunderstandwhatyouaresaying.

19 Q.‐‐didn'tthey?

20 A.It'sabigbusiness,abigorganisation,andpeople‐‐

21 yes,youcansaynotdirectlybutindirectlyIwas

22 responsibleforthosepeople;theywereinmyteam.

23 Q.Andquitedirectly.MrRyanworkeddirectlyforyou?

24 A.That'snotthesameassharedventure.Sharedventure

25 doesn'tworkfor‐‐directlytome;itworksto

183

1 JillClark.

2 Q.Isaidsharedventureandbusinesstransfer.

3 A.Businesstransferdidworkdirectlyforme.

4 Q.Andthesharedventureaspectworkedtoyouthrough

5 MsClark,yousay?

6 A.Correct.

7 Q.Andyouwerepersonallytakingaverydetailedamountof

8 involvementinDartford,weren'tyou?Wehaveseenyour

9 fingerprints,ifyoulike,alloverit.

10 A.Atvariouspointsintime,yes.

11 Q.Andcertainly‐‐well,from2007and2008,whenthose

12 documentswerecreated?

13 A.Thosedocumentsbeing?

14 Q.TheonesItookyoutoearliertodayshowingthatthe

15 membersofyoursharedventureteambelievedthat

16 100percentofthesharesweregoingtobeyours.

17 A.That'swhatitsaysonthedocument.Ihaveno

18 knowledgeofit.NordidIaskthemtodothat.

19 Q.Sowehavegotthosetwodepartmentsworkingtoyou,and

20 then,ofcourse,thethirdaspectisMrMcAlindonand

21 hisLossPreventiondepartment.Theyworktoyou,don't

22 they?

23 A.Theydo.

24 Q.Hereportsdirectlytoyou?

25 A.Hedoes.

184

1 Q.Andsoifwejustlookedatthosethreedepartments,and

2 youabovethem,allofthosepeopleappeartobeworking

3 towardsremovingMsBirdifromthestore.

4 A.Idon'tacceptthat.

5 Q.Paragraph127.{C/9/117}Yousay:

6 "MsBirdihadignoredalegitimateboardinstruction

7 toconductsighttestsforfourdaysaweek."

8 A.Yes.

9 Q.Areyoureferringtoaboardmeetingwhichrecordedthat

10 shehadagreedtodothat?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Didyoupersonallyhaveanyknowledgeorinvolvementin

13 that‐‐

14 A.No.

15 Q.‐‐in2009?

16 A.No.

17 Q.No?Iwon'taskyouaboutitthen.And128‐‐thisis

18 yourlastparagraph:{C/9/118}

19 "SOGdoesnotdesirethataJVPberemovedforcibly

20 fromabusiness."

21 That'snotquitetrue,isit?

22 A.Thatisabsolutely‐‐

23 Q.InsomecasesSOGdodesirethat.

24 A.Sorry?

25 Q.Yousay:



185

1 "SOGdoesnotdesirethataJVPberemovedforcibly

2 fromabusiness."

3 AndI'mputtingtoyouthatthatisanover

4 simplification,ageneralisation,whichisnottrue.

5 SometimesSOGdoesdesiretoremove,toexit,inyour

6 terms,aJVpartnerfromthebusiness?

7 A.Yes,iftheyhavedonesomethingthattheydeserveto

8 exitfor.

9 Q.Hm‐mm.Iftheyhavenotdonewhatyouwantthemtodo?

10 A.That'snotwhatIsaid.

11 Q.No,I'mputtingittoyou‐‐youseeIhavetoputitto

12 youbecauseit'sthecasethatMsBirdiasserts.She

13 assertsthatiftheJVpartnerdoesn'tdowhatyou

14 wantedthemtodo,whatSOGwantsthemtodo,youwill

15 cometoormaycometotheconclusionthatyouwould

16 liketheJVpartnerexitedfromthebusiness?

17 A.OnlyiftheJVpartnerhasdonesomethingthatthey

18 deservetobeexitedfromthebusinessfor‐‐theonly

19 circumstance.

20 Q.Well,MsBirdihadn'tdoneanythingtodeservethis,had

21 she,savethatshehadfallenfoulofMrMcAlindon,who

22 considered‐‐well,weknowwhathisviewsofherwere.

23 A.Herexitwasbecausetherelationshiphadcompletely

24 brokendownbetweenSOG,MsBirdiandMrSingh.

25 Q.Ifthatweretrue,thatwascausedbyMrMcAlindon

186

1 havingcommencedaprocessofharassingherfrom2 February2007onwards‐‐3 A.Idon'tacceptthatwecommencedaprocessof4 harassment;wecommencedaprocesstoinvestigate5 allegationsthatweremadeagainstherbyherfellow6 director,whoweexitedforthoseactivities.7 Q.YouhavealreadyagreedthatifMrMcAlindondidwhat8 MrsFrondigounsayshedid,hisattitudetowards9 MsBirdiwaswhollyimproper‐‐ifhediddowhatit's

10 saidhedid?11 A.Okay.12 Q.Youwouldagreewiththat?13 A.IftheallegationthatMsFrondigounmadeare‐‐14 Q.Aretrue‐‐15 A.‐‐true.16 Q.‐‐thenMrMcAlindonhadamaliciousattitudetowards17 MsBirdifromthatpoint,didn'the?18 A.Amaliciousattitude?I'mnotsureIwouldagreehehad19 amaliciousattitude.20 Q.Callingsomebody"arealbitch",it'smalicious,isn't21 it?22 A.Iwouldhavetoacceptthat,MrStuart,yes.23 Q.So,totheextentthattheprocessstartedwiththatand24 thencarriedonintoalloftheotherthingsthat25 MsBirditalksabout,thatwouldbe,wouldn'tit?

187

1 A.ButduringthewholeofthisprocessMsBirdineverever2 triedtomakethiswork:compromise,mediate,follow3 instructions,youknow,everything.Wetriedourvery,4 verybesttomakethispartnershipworkandMsBirdi5 refusedeveryopportunitytotryandmakeitwork,as6 farasIcansee.7 Q.Well,haven'tyoujustthenmoreorlesscometothe8 sameconclusionasme:ifshedoesn'tdowhatyouwant9 hertodo,youwillexitherfromthebusiness?

10 A.That'snotwhatIsaid.Ijustsaidshefailedtoeven11 tryandmeetpeoplehalfwayonthejourneytotryand12 makethisbusinessopportunityworkreally,reallywell,13 whichitcouldhavedoneforbothofthem.14 Q.ShehadbeenanexcellentJVpartnerfortenyears,and15 suddenly,in2007onwards,youdescribeherasthemost16 difficultone.17 A.Wedidnot‐‐wedidnotgointothestoreandnot18 uncoverthingsthatwerewrong.Neitherdid,when19 MrPatelmadehisallegations,findthatwhathewas20 sayingwasnotabsolutelytrue.Iknowyouhavemade21 yourpointaboutoneaspectofit,butotherthingshe22 saidweretrue.Wedidn'tmakethatup.Wedidn't23 engageinmakingtheallegations.Otherpeoplemade24 them.Allwedidwasfollowthatupthrough25 investigationanddisciplinaryproceduresandtriedon

188

1 numerousoccasionstotryandmakethepartnershipwork

2 throughoffersofmediationandotherthings.

3 Q.Allright.Ijusthavetodealveryquicklywithyour

4 twoshortstatements.IfyougotobundleC,tab10?

5 A.Tab?

6 Q.10{C/10/119}.

7 A.Ihavegotthat,MrStuart.

8 Q.IthinkIhavealreadydealtwithsomeoftheparts

9 aboutMrSingh,butyoudealhere‐‐doyouhaveit,

10 tab10,yoursecondstatement?

11 A.Yes.

12 Q.Atparagraphs5,6,7,8,onwardsyoudealwithpayments

13 toMrPatel,creditcardpayment‐‐theTHPIhave

14 alreadydealtwith‐‐thetaxpayment‐‐

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.‐‐andhiscompanycar.Didyoupersonallyhaveany

17 involvementinanyofthis?

18 A.No.

19 Q.Soalthoughithasbeenputintoyourstatementhere,by

20 wayofasortofformalresponsestatement,theseare

21 notmattersarewhereyoupersonallydealtwithit?

22 A.No,Iwasn'tpersonallyinvolved.

23 Q.Allright.ThenI'mnotgoingtoaskyouanymoreabout

24 those.

25 YouthenmoveontoMrSinghfromparagraph19



189

1 onwards.Doyouseethat?{C/10/122}

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.Firstofall,theequalisationdividendandthe£14,942

4 yourefertoatparagraph22.{C/10/123}Didyou

5 personallyhaveanyknowledge‐‐

6 A.Sorry,isthat...?

7 Q.Soparagraph22.

8 A.Not17?Paragraph22?

9 Q.Yes,inparagraph22?

10 A.Okay.

11 Q.Youreferbacktotheequalisationdividend‐‐yousee,

12 MrPatelhadagreedthatMsBirdiwasentitledtoan

13 equalisationdividend,shesays.

14 A.Shesaid,yes.

15 Q.Shesays.Butthathadn'tbeenpaidbythetime

16 MrSinghbecametheAshareholder.Doyouunderstand?

17 A.Thisistodowiththecar,isn'tit?ButMsBirdiwas

18 alreadyduethefirst£14,942asanequalisation.

19 Ithoughtthatwastodowiththecar.Because,you

20 rememberthatMrPatelhadbeengiftedhiscar.Icould

21 bewrongbutIthoughtthat'swhat‐‐

22 Q.Isupposemyquestionwasthis:wereyoupersonally

23 involvedinanyofthis?

24 A.No,Iwasn't,no.

25 Q.Wecanseefromthedocumentswhatthedocumentssay

190

1 but‐‐

2 A.Sorry,Imisunderstoodthequestion.

3 Q.‐‐myquestionis:didyoupersonallyhaveanyknowledge

4 ofanyoftheseactualtransactions?

5 A.No.

6 Q.I'mnotgoingtoaskyouaboutthose.

7 Overthepage.Thisispage124now,thelasttwo

8 pagesofyourstatement,124to126.{C/10/124}Doyou

9 seethat?

10 A.Yes.

11 Q.Undertheheading,"PayRiseandBonuses".Doyousee

12 that?

13 A.Ido.

14 Q.Ihavealreadydealtwiththequestionofsomeofthe

15 payrises.Butatparagraph36‐‐

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.‐‐yousetoutthereanargumentaboutwhyMsBirdi

18 shouldn'tbeseeninthesamewayasMrSinghwhenheis

19 inhiscapacityassoledirector,conductingthe

20 businessandthereforeentitledtohispayriseandhis

21 bonusesandanythingelse.Youmakethepointat36

22 thatyoudon'tconsiderthattheperiodwhenMsBirdi

23 wasthesoledirectorcanhavesuchasimilaranalysis

24 puttoit.Isthatright?Doyouseethat?

25 A.Iamjustreadingthecontext.

191

1 Q.Okay.

2 A.Sorry,MrStuart,whatwasyourquestion?

3 Q.Paragraph36.Youmakethepointthatyoucan't,in

4 yourview,applythesamerulestoMsBirdi'speriodof

5 soledirectorshipthatyouareapplyingtoMrSingh's

6 periodofsoledirectorship.

7 A.(inaudible)forthebonuses.

8 Q.Salaryrisesandbonus.Yousayarejustifiedbecause

9 yousayheisnowthesoledirector.

10 A.It'sspecificallyaboutbonuses,isn'tit?

11 Q.Ithinkit'sundertheheading,"PayRiseandBonuses".

12 A.That'scorrect,becausethedistributionswereavailable

13 here,sowecanseetheperformance,whichiswhythe

14 bonuseswerepaidandratifiedthroughDartford

15 Visionplus.

16 Q.Hm‐mm.Youthengooninparagraph37:{C/10/125}

17 "ThereasonastowhyMrSinghhasbeenpaid

18 employeebonusesfromDartfordVisionplusandnot

19 dividendsfromDartfordisbecausehehasbeenrewarded

20 byhisemployer,DartfordVisionplus,forhisworkand

21 performanceasanemployeeinsuccessfullycompleting

22 theday‐to‐daymanagementofthestoreonhisown

23 sinceJanuary2010todate."

24 Doyouseethat?

25 A.That'scorrect.

192

1 Q.Whatyouaretheresayingisthatheisnotgetting

2 thesesumsbecauseofbeinganAdirectorof

3 DartfordSpecsavers‐‐

4 A.No,heisgettingrewardedbyhisemployer,Dartford

5 Visionplus.

6 Q.Doyouhaveanyevidencethatheactuallyspendsmore

7 timeemployedinthestorebyDartfordVisionplus?

8 A.Whenyousay"evidence",whatIknowisheisasole

9 directorinabusinesswherethereshouldbe

10 twodirectors.Thebusinessisdoingreallywell,the

11 dividendsaregoingup,andrewardingMrSinghforhis

12 endeavoursasanemployeefeelsanappropriatethingto

13 do.

14 Q.Butyouhavepreviouslysaidinyourstatementsthatthe

15 benefitsofmoreprofitsinthestore,etcetera,et

16 cetera,gototheAshareholdersthroughtheir

17 shareholding.

18 A.Correct.

19 Q.Notthroughsalaryrises.

20 A.Thisisnotaboutequalisation,thisisaboutrewarding

21 aindividualforhishardanddedicatedwork,increasing

22 theprofitabilityofthestoreand,bywayofpayinghim

23 abonusasanemployee,continuingtomotivatehimto

24 keepperformanceup.

25 Q.Hedoesn'tneedanymotivation,doeshe?Heisan



193

1 Ashareholder;heisgetting50percentoftheprofits.

2 A.Ithinkhedoesneedmotivating.It'spartoftheway

3 thatSpecsaversoperatesintermsofmotivatingand

4 bonusingpeople.Andthisis‐‐

5 Q.Didyoumotivateorbonus‐‐

6 A.‐‐remember‐‐this,remember‐‐this,remember‐‐this

7 isnotforever.Assoonas,youknow,MrSinghisnot

8 theonlypartnerinthatstore,thisremunerationfor

9 himfromhisemployerwillcease.

10 Q.Allright.

11 Finally,canyouflicktotab18,tab18,yourlast

12 witnessstatement.{C/18/184}It'sonlydealswith

13 acouplemorepoints.Page184,undertheheading,

14 "SeanMcLaughlin'sCharges."

15 A.Sorry,I'mnotthere.

16 Q.Sorry,tab18.Doyouhaveit?

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Youhavemadeathirdwitnessstatementwhichsortof

19 respondedto‐‐

20 A.Ihave,yes.

21 Q.‐‐anumberofmatterswhichwereinMsBirdi'sfourth

22 witnessstatement.Doyouremember?

23 A.Yes.

24 Q.Andfirstitemis,"SeanMcLaughlin'sCharges",andthat

25 goesonfromparagraph5toparagraph11?{C/18/184}Do

194

1 youseethat?

2 A.Yes.

3 Q.Nowwehavegotalltheactualdetailsofthefigures.

4 Myonlyquestiontoyouis:doyouactuallyhaveany

5 personalknowledgeofallthespecificfiguresof

6 MrMcLaughlin'scharges?

7 A.No.

8 Q.No.Allright.Overthepageon186,"SecurityCamera

9 Invoices"istheheading.Doyouseeit?{C/18/186}

10 A.Ido.

11 Q.Paragraphs12to15.Youdealwithanumberof

12 differentitemsofallegedsecuritycameracharges.

13 A.Correct.

14 Q.Especiallyat13(a),(b),(c),(d),(e).Samequestion:

15 doyoupersonallyhaveanyknowledgeaboutthesecameras

16 oraboutthechargesforthesecameras?

17 A.Notpersonally,no.

18 Q.No,allright,Iwon'taskyou.Overthepage,the

19 creditnoteitem.{C/18/187}Thisisthenew

20 explanationastohowthefiguresmightwork.Doyou

21 remember?

22 A.Idoremember,yes.

23 Q.Youwillknowthequestionthat'scoming:Didyou

24 personallyworkoutthisexplanationastohowthe

25 creditnoteworkswiththeotherinvoicesandsomehow‐‐

195

1 A.No,thisisinresponse,Ithink,tosomeprevious

2 correspondence,anditwasdiscoveredonfurther

3 investigationthatacreditnotehadbeenissued.

4 Q.Right,butdoyoupersonallyhaveanyknowledgeabout

5 thiscreditnoteoraboutthecircumstancesinwhichthe

6 figureswere‐‐

7 A.No.

8 Q.No?

9 A.No.

10 Q.Allright,fine.Andthegiftofthecompanycar.This

11 isMrPatel'scar.Doyourememberhegotit‐‐

12 A.Idoremember,yes.

13 Q.‐‐giftedtohim?AndthisisallaboutHMRevenueand

14 Customs,theP11Dcalculation,paragraph20ofyour

15 witnessstatement.{C/18/188}?

16 A.Yes.

17 Q.Atparagraph19youtalkaboutthere'sanumberofways

18 tovalueacar.Doyouseethat,paragraph19?

19 {C/18/188}

20 A.Ido.

21 Q.DoyouhaveanyknowledgeabouthowMrPatel'scarwas

22 actuallyanalysedordealtwithbywayofvaluationor

23 tax?

24 A.No,onlywhat'swrittenhere.

25 Q.Fine.ThenIwon'taskyouaboutit.

196

1 Andthenpage189,theliabilitytoHMRC.2 {C/18/189}Thisisthis£9,469figurethathisLordship3 askedyouaboutearlier.Doyouremember?4 A.Ido,yes.5 Q.IthinkatthetimeyoutoldhisLordshipthatyou6 didn'thaveaclearknowledgeyourselfpersonallyof7 quitehowthisworks,thisanalysisandthis£9,000.8 Doesthatremaintheposition.9 A.Itdoes,yes.

10 Q.Soitwouldn'treallyassistifIstartedaskingyou11 aboutthedetailofthisexplanation?12 A.Idon'tthinkitwould,no.13 Q.No?Allright.AndIdon'tthinkIneedtoaskyou14 aboutthelasttwoitemsanyway.15 Thelastparagraphofyourlaststatement,the16 salaryincreases.{C/18/191}Yousay:17 "...InotethatIauthorisedincreasesfrom3to18 13percent..."19 Thesearethestaffincreasesnow,notMrSingh?20 A.Yes.21 Q."...offiveoutofthe19employees...upon22 re‐readingthisparagraph,Ishouldliketoclarifythat23 thosefiveemployeeswerePatriceO'Brien...Fernandes24 ...Jita,DeniseKinsellaandSheilaO'Brien."25 Didyoupersonallyhaveanyinvolvementindeciding



197

1 anythingaboutthese‐‐

2 A.Idid.

3 Q.‐‐staffsalaries‐‐

4 A.Idid.

5 Q.‐‐ordidyouleaveittoMrMcAlindonandMsSlark?

6 A.No,Iwentthroughthelistandthat'swhyonlyfiveof

7 the19‐‐thereisanothertwobutIactuallysoughtto

8 checkthevalidityoftheinformation,notbecause

9 Ididn'tdisbelieveit,butIwantedtomakesurewe

10 weremakingadecision,thatitwasbasedoncorrect

11 information.JillClarkhelpedmewiththatandthere

12 weretwopeoplethatgotpayrises.Onewas

13 anoptometrist,whowasbehindthemarketrate,andthe

14 otherwasaladywhowasatraineeDO,whobecameaDO

15 andIjustmadesurethatshewaspaidtherightsalary

16 fortherateofdoingthejob.

17 Q.Very,verylastquestion.Weareflickingbackto

18 oneissue.E2.CouldyoubeshownE2,page306‐24.

19 {E/44.2/306‐24}.Justkeepyourfingerinthereand

20 thenjustgobacktopage360‐1{E/44.1/360.1},sothat

21 wecanseethecontextofthis.

22 Acalculationhadbeendonetoseewhatseverance

23 dividendwouldhavebeenpayableuponMrPatel's

24 departure.

25 MRPOTTS:Sorry,butthat£1,288ismyfriend'sdocument

198

1 andIdon'tbelieveit'scontemporaneous.

2 MRSTUART:That'sright.Iwasn'tseekingtosayitwas.

3 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Idon'tthinkMrStuartmeanttosuggest

4 it.

5 MRPOTTS:No,I'msorry.

6 MRSTUART:No,absolutelynot.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:No,butitwasslightlyambiguous,the

8 wayyouexpressedit.

9 MRSTUART:I'msorry:acalculationhasrecentlybeen

10 done‐‐Idon'tknowhowrecently,butrecentlydone,

11 notdoneatthetime‐‐calculatingwhatmighthavebeen

12 theseverancedividendpayableuponMrPatel'sdeparture

13 inFebruary2007.Okay?

14 A.Yes.

15 Q.Anditstartswithafigure:

16 "Previousyear'sprofitbroughtforward:£128812."

17 Doyouseethat?

18 A.Ido.

19 Q.SothatwouldbetoSeptember2006.Andthenlossesfor

20 aperiod,thendistributableprofitsavailable,andthen

21 theretainedreserves,the40,000figure,whichyousay

22 shouldbe70,000.That'sright,isn'tit?

23 A.Correct.

24 Q.Soit'saseverancedividendof76,000butyouwould,at

25 least,sayyouwouldhavetodeduct30,000fromthat?

199

1 A.Correct.

2 Q.Idon'tneedtotakeyoutothedocumentifyouwill

3 acceptthat.Doyouaccepttheconceptofseverance

4 dividendsbeingpayablewhenoneofthepartnersleaves?

5 Isthatareasonablycommoncircumstance?

6 A.Whenyousay"severance"...

7 Q.Yes.SoanAshareholder,oneofthetwo‐‐

8 A.Imean,isthatthesameaswhateverdistributable

9 profitswereavailableatthetimethepersonwhowas

10 leavingwouldbeentitledtothem?

11 Q.Uptothatpoint,yes.

12 A.Yes.

13 Q.Andthenthemoneymightnotevenbeavailable;there

14 mightnotbecashinthebank?

15 A.Correct.

16 Q.Butatleastafigurewouldbecalculated,sothatthe

17 seller‐‐

18 A.Thatismyunderstanding,yes.

19 Q.Sothatisyourunderstandingofwhatcommonlyhappens?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Allright,Idon'tneedtoaskyouanymoreaboutit.

22 MyLord,thankyou.Idon'thaveanymore

23 questions.

24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:MrPotts,Iassumeyouhavesome‐‐

25 MRPOTTS:No,Iamveryshort.Ihavegotonequestion,my

200

1 Lord,Ithink.

2 Re‐examinationbyMRPOTTS

3 MRPOTTS:DoyouhavevolumeD2?

4 A.Yes.

5 Q.Youwereasked‐‐couldyouturntopage368,please,

6 {D/27/368}

7 A.Yes.

8 Q.YouwereaskedabouttheconsiderationofMrSingh's

9 positionasatSeptember2011,intermsofconsidering

10 hisremunerationandhissalaryandrequestforan

11 increase.

12 A.Correct.

13 Q.Andpage368showedthepositionasat

14 30September2010.Doyouseethat?368?

15 A.Yes.

16 Q.Infact,sorry,youwereshown365infact.{D/27/365}

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Whichisasat30September2010,ayearearlier;

19 correct?

20 A.Yes.

21 Q.Youweren'tshown368,wereyou,intermsofthebottom

22 ofthepageinrelationtodividendpayments?

23 A.No.

24 Q.Andintermsofthecompany,wastheonlyfinancial

25 informationinrelationtothecompanythehistoric



201

1 accountsfromayearearlier?

2 Whatfinancialinformationwasavailableinrelation

3 tothecompanyonanongoingbasis,apartfromthe

4 annualaccounts?

5 A.Therewouldhavebeenthebottomlinereportsthatwere

6 sentouttothestores.

7 Q.Andwhatdidthebottomlinepositionshow?

8 A.Itshowstheamountofmoneythat'savailablefor

9 distribution.

10 Q.Andwhat'stheperiodicdetailsastohowthoseare

11 produced?Howaretheyproduced?

12 A.Myunderstandingisthattheyareproducedonamonthly

13 basis.

14 Q.Okay.Couldyouturnforward?Youweren'tshown395,

15 whichistheannualconsolidatedaccountsbalancesheet

16 asat30September2011.{D/29/395}

17 A.Yes.

18 Q.Butyourevidenceisthattherewouldhavebeenbottom

19 linereportsforthemonthlyperiodsthereafter,andin

20 relationtothefinancialpositionofthecompanyas

21 atSeptember2011,whatwasyourunderstandingofthe

22 financialpositionofthecompanyatthattime?

23 A.Thatitwasveryhealthy.

24 Q.Thankyou.Ihavenofurtherquestions.

25 QuestionsbyTHEJUDGE

202

1 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuch.

2 MrDyson,Ihaveonequestion,whichisthatwhen

3 youwerebeingaskedbyMrStuartaboutwhetherMrSingh

4 wasbeinggiventhesharesverycheaply,yousaid:

5 "Justbecauseithasgot£1millionturnover,it

6 doesn'tmeanit'sgoingtoproduceaprofitandit

7 dependsonhowwellitworks."

8 Andyousaidsomethinglikeitwillonlypayout

9 50,000iftheprofitabilityisthere,andthatwillbe

10 downtothepartnershipworkingtogether.Doyou

11 rememberthatanswer?

12 A.Yes.


14 OneofthecomplaintsthatMsBirdihadinher

15 appeal,whichcametoyou,wasthatMrSinghhadbeen

16 imposedonheragainstherwill,andIjustwonderedhow

17 importantitwasthatthetwojointventurepartnersin

18 atwo‐partnerfirmgotonwelltogether.

19 A.Weselectourpartnersontheir‐‐firstofall,to

20 answeryourquestionabout(inaudible)otherway,butwe

21 obviouslyneedtounderstandtheirpreviousexperience

22 andwhetherthey'veworkedforusoranotheropticianor

23 anotherretailer.Theyhavetopassthestage1,which

24 doesthecheckintermsofpsychometrictesting;test

25 theircommercialacumen;andwehaveconfidencethatwe

203

1 aregivingabusinessorallowingsomeonetojoin2 abusinessthat'sgoingtoaddvalue.Andthat'sour3 primaryconcern.4 Ofcourse,makingsurethatpartnerscanwork5 together‐‐theydon'thavetolikeeachotherandwe6 havegotlotsandlotsofpartnershipswheretheydon't7 likeeachotherbuttheyarevery,verysuccessful.And8 soitisimportantthatwechoosetherightperson9 becauseoftheirskillsandexperienceandtheir

10 leadershipbecausetheyarethemostimportantthings,11 andhopefully,whenwedothat,theywillgeton,butwe12 don't‐‐wedon'ttryanddomatchmaking,ifIcan13 describeitthatway.14 Andit'swhatwehavedoneforaslongasIhave15 beenthereandprobablydonetoadifferentsetof16 standardspriortomearrivinginthecompany.17 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyou.18 HowcommonisitforaJVpartnertobeintroduced19 toatwo‐personbusinessagainsttheactiveopposition20 oftheexistingJVpartner?BecauseMsBirdiactually21 votedagainstMrSinghbeingintroducedintothe22 business,didn'tshe,attheboardmeeting?23 A.It'snotfrequent.Ithashappenedinthepast,but24 Icanthinkofacoupleofoccasions,butit'snot25 somethingthatnormallyhappens.It'snormally‐‐we

204

1 introduce‐‐becauseweintroducethepartnerbefore

2 theyactuallydosignup.Theyspendsometime

3 together.Thepartnerwhoisbuyingthesharesnormally

4 spendsadayinthestoreorevenlonger,dependingon

5 howthechemistryworks,andthenwethengoonto

6 completethesaleandthenappointthemasdirectors.

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuch.Idon'tknowif

8 eitherofyouwanttoaskanythingarisingoutofthat.

9 MRSTUART:No,myLord.

10 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuchforyourhelp,

11 MrDyson.

12 A.Thankyou.

13 MRPOTTS:CouldMrDysonbereleasedandfinallycatchhis

14 flight?

15 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Yes.Ofcourse,yes.Ihopeyouhave

16 asafeflightbacktoAustralia.

17 A.Thankyou.

18 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Unlessthereisanythingelse,10.30

19 tomorrow.

20 MRPOTTS:MyLord,no.Ithinkit'sMrMcAlindon.My

21 Lord,thereisadocumentinrelationtosome

22 corrections.Ihavehandedittomyfriendtoday.I

23 can‐‐

24 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Correctionsto?

25 MRPOTTS:MrMcAlindon's‐‐



205

1 MRJUSTICENUGEE:McAlindon'sstatement?

2 MRPOTTS:We'lldealwiththosebutIhaveagreedwithmy

3 friend,ratherthanmetryingto‐‐

4 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Doitorally.

5 MRPOTTS:‐‐orally,it'sbyapieceofpaper.Iwillhand

6 ittoyourLordship‐‐

7 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thatwouldbeverygrateful.

8 MRPOTTS:‐‐perhapstomorrowmorning‐‐perhaps.


10 MRPOTTS:Butmyfriendhasit.

11 MRJUSTICENUGEE:Thankyouverymuch.10.30tomorrow.

12 (4.30pm)

13 (Thecourtadjourneduntil10.30amthefollowingday)

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

206

1 INDEX2 MRDEREKDYSON(continued)...........................33 Cross‐examinationbyMRSTUART(continued).......34 Re‐examinationbyMRPOTTS.....................2005 QuestionsbyTHEJUDGE.........................2016789

10111213141516171819202122232425



207November 3, 2014 Day 8


A

able (6) 1:17 41:2557:22 82:25 127:9132:15

absence (1) 111:6absent (1) 111:22absolutely (12) 5:25

15:17 22:11 87:396:15 139:14143:15 164:6 168:4184:22 187:20198:6

accept (7) 35:20 126:7184:4 186:3,22199:3,3

acceptable (4) 124:21127:19 128:10,20

accepted (1) 59:14accommodation (3)

60:6 109:13 116:17accompanied (1)

21:23account (3) 43:22

67:11 106:7accountancy (1) 68:17accounted (1) 106:21accounting (1) 9:5accounts (12) 9:10

10:13 12:24 13:927:23 67:8 146:9158:22 160:18201:1,4,15

accrued (1) 13:10accurate (1) 142:5achieving (1) 48:5acknowledge (2)

33:13 138:25acknowledges (1)

145:16acquire (3) 40:7 94:11

95:14acquired (2) 38:11

40:6acquiring (3) 149:16

149:19 150:12acquisition (1) 41:7act (4) 21:24 162:21

179:1,11acted (3) 151:7,9,10acting (13) 36:1 58:16

69:21 114:18 115:1115:15 116:3,5,8,9121:11 141:21165:25

action (11) 19:1732:17,20 41:1390:3 132:21 133:7133:8,17 135:3151:4

actions (1) 26:18active (2) 36:12

203:19activities (7) 57:9,11

88:21 120:19133:13 159:11186:6

activity (7) 120:9,12122:19 152:16,18155:3,15

actual (9) 18:20 29:235:18 107:15 150:3150:6 170:14 190:4194:3

acumen (1) 202:25adamant (2) 4:6 15:17add (2) 9:9 203:2added (5) 10:4 114:9

115:7,17 116:12adding (1) 117:17additional (2) 111:2

173:15address (2) 101:9

178:13addressed (2) 170:20

176:4addressing (1) 90:13Adherence (1) 147:12adjourned (1) 205:13adjournment (1)

102:24admitting (1) 5:19adversarial (1) 173:17advice (10) 165:15

171:23 172:3,3,5172:20 174:23176:11,23,24

advise (1) 130:16afraid (1) 41:19afternoon (1) 84:17age (1) 11:1agenda (1) 65:23ago (1) 130:18agree (22) 3:6 32:16

63:12,18 73:2488:9 89:6 92:2094:20 96:15 100:21104:16,17 108:18109:10 155:7,7160:10 177:14,17186:12,18

agreed (26) 7:24,2521:23 34:17 43:7,859:4,7 60:14,2161:7,10 71:22 84:184:2 87:2 88:1 89:391:11 92:14,22143:24 184:10186:7 189:12 205:2

agreeing (2) 64:25107:24

agreement (31) 12:125:8,9 26:9 34:3,534:6,19 52:3,5,1052:13,15,18 55:1592:14,16,22 93:17124:3,8 125:17,18126:2 147:16154:17,18,21178:25 179:20180:7

Agreement/Deed (1)147:12

agrees (1) 150:22Ah (2) 117:4 164:2ahead (1) 72:18aid (1) 124:5airport (1) 62:25Alison (4) 21:2 71:12

158:5 180:23allegation (15) 104:18

104:19 119:11,14120:14 123:6,9,13123:14,17,18,19162:13 181:18186:13

allegations (17) 41:2264:18 121:23 122:2122:3,13,17,22,24153:25 154:2165:21 166:21167:6 186:5 187:19187:23

alleged (2) 59:20194:12

allegedly (1) 26:22allocated (1) 2:16allow (1) 157:7allowances (1) 60:7allowed (1) 111:25allowing (1) 203:1

alongside (1) 62:4amber (2) 74:19,24ambiguous (1) 198:7amend (2) 16:3 113:20amended (1) 42:14amendments (2)

113:7,24amount (10) 54:15

89:19 106:4 143:9144:3,6 176:18181:6 183:7 201:8

analysed (1) 195:22analysing (1) 157:18analysis (4) 43:7,8

190:23 196:7Anderson (2) 21:2

71:12and/or (4) 5:20 29:1

93:7 131:13annotate (1) 116:1annotated (2) 113:19

141:12annotations (8)

170:19,22 171:7,14171:15 172:8173:11 176:20

annual (6) 156:22157:7 159:20 160:4201:4,15

annualised (1) 10:13annum (5) 53:20 54:3

54:19,25 55:2answer (18) 19:18

25:1 26:16 29:2545:18 47:19 59:1765:8 102:2,3117:18 139:13146:14 164:19175:18 177:3202:11,20

answered (2) 98:13165:1

answers (2) 40:10174:14

anticipated (2) 149:1150:9

anybody (3) 14:2240:23 165:14

anyway (5) 50:1280:17 86:5 101:7196:14

apart (3) 21:10 108:24201:3

appeal (40) 161:14,15161:20 163:13,16163:18,23 164:3,4164:12 165:12,17166:15,25 167:7,19168:2,18,24 170:1170:16 171:2,3,15172:8,16 173:6,9174:16,19 175:5177:6 178:8 179:14179:15 180:11,15180:16,19 202:15

appealing (1) 103:15appear (10) 12:18

13:15 38:9 85:2089:19 93:15 101:22163:8 175:5 184:2

appearing (1) 163:1appears (9) 13:13

32:10 68:11 89:6,9100:21 132:17153:24 178:23

applied (11) 46:449:24 78:13 86:886:19 87:11,13,24106:25 157:13,19

applies (3) 87:2 127:1

156:25apply (7) 46:3,19

78:18 81:19 125:18157:6 191:4

applying (4) 54:22138:25 158:16191:5

appoint (4) 55:1156:15 165:9 204:6

appointed (11) 21:24129:16 139:23,24162:18,24 163:2165:6,8,11 167:12

appointing (3) 22:1222:13 154:15

appointment (5) 55:22129:22 130:20131:9 166:2

appreciate (1) 65:19appreciates (1) 64:15appropriate (18) 2:1

32:4 39:11 46:1,1763:3,13,16 67:1698:21 125:8 127:11143:16 158:17165:17 166:24172:10 192:12

appropriately (1)91:17

approval (11) 27:2429:16 32:20,24,25124:9,23 125:2,9126:20 128:12

approve (14) 42:744:10 125:3 127:5127:6,7,7 128:12128:13,15,19,21131:9 166:8

approved (10) 32:544:11 45:5 66:13105:10 120:8,15124:20 127:18128:9

approving (2) 129:22144:20

April (4) 18:23 22:2323:2 65:11

area (3) 80:20 81:18179:14

argument (10) 3:15171:17,19,21 177:9178:6,7,19 179:21190:17

arguments (4) 3:10177:4,5,5

arisen (1) 105:19arises (3) 26:24

111:19 127:13arising (2) 171:1 204:8arose (2) 27:1 174:19arrange (1) 50:17arrangement (1) 77:10arrangements (2)

88:22 95:18arriving (1) 203:16Artley (1) 96:23aside (1) 175:16asked (31) 6:22 9:23

10:17,20 17:2431:21 38:13 39:255:14 64:2 70:1570:17,19 77:799:20 100:19101:19,24 113:6117:19 127:11136:1 144:13154:23 158:5 169:4169:4 196:3 200:5200:8 202:3

asking (21) 15:2,13

35:17 55:9 74:23118:1 138:24 158:4160:25 171:17,19171:20,24 172:7,25173:2,4 174:3,9176:25 196:10

asks (3) 29:13,15150:19

aspect (3) 183:4,20187:21

aspects (1) 166:14assert (2) 107:10

112:6asserted (3) 4:18

171:12 172:22assertion (2) 177:14

177:17asserts (2) 185:12,13assessing (2) 96:7

130:23assessment (5) 77:23

77:25 81:16 82:385:6

assist (1) 196:10assistance (2) 75:18

161:4assistant (2) 6:24

150:7associated (2) 112:13

133:13assume (2) 21:3

199:24assuming (4) 8:16

12:11 19:16 81:7assumption (3) 2:7

29:5 81:6attached (1) 113:14attachment (4) 27:22

32:12,13 45:11attachments (1) 28:1attend (2) 60:3 180:14attendance (3) 115:5

115:11,16attending (1) 163:21attention (1) 144:7attitude (4) 186:8,16

186:18,19attract (3) 80:5 81:22

85:17attributable (2) 13:3

13:16attributed (1) 62:19audit (4) 19:12 72:6

72:17,18auditing (1) 72:4audits (1) 72:7August (11) 75:12,17

76:24 83:19 84:3,484:13,17 85:2196:10 159:3

Australia (1) 204:16authorisation (3)

50:18 75:18 76:5authorise (3) 26:10

32:5 76:16authorised (5) 21:2

76:10,18,22 196:17authorising (2) 46:9

66:19authority (3) 24:21,23

25:2avail (2) 59:19,20availability (2) 1:20

80:19available (19) 1:15

23:8 40:14 45:758:19 61:13 71:979:8 80:3 85:15115:6 149:6,8191:12 198:20

199:9,13 201:2,8average (6) 10:5 11:2

12:11 47:15 116:15150:13

aware (20) 27:13,1437:15 39:9,1045:17,18 65:3,1383:8 90:16 91:1129:15 136:12146:12 153:7,9,10153:22 173:21

awful (1) 61:5

B

b (24) 23:7 24:24 25:225:3,3,6,12,1633:15,18,20,24,2558:14 86:15 93:8111:4,20 112:1,7158:6 162:24 163:2194:14

back (35) 1:12 9:922:7 32:23 51:356:18 60:15 87:22100:1 112:17124:18 126:8,19128:22 137:10146:10 153:13154:3 162:19,20163:15 164:8,9,12165:24 171:5172:16,19,23,25173:2 189:11197:17,20 204:16

backdated (1) 160:23background (1) 173:16bad (8) 47:23 48:9

64:14,16,17,2465:5 74:13

bag (1) 74:17balance (1) 201:15balanced (1) 69:2ball (1) 31:25bank (1) 199:14bargain (1) 138:9Barnes (2) 20:6,18base (2) 61:18 139:13based (19) 8:16,24

16:21 17:2 28:947:4 74:25 82:399:19 127:8 136:5138:10 142:4,6148:24 159:18178:7 179:25197:10

basic (19) 9:15 142:21142:23 143:1,2,6,6143:7,8,13,14,22143:25 144:2,9,13144:22 145:1149:14

basically (1) 161:20basis (22) 47:5 57:17

87:16,16 96:9,9112:6,7 139:15,15140:12 156:21157:7 159:20 160:3160:21 167:6168:18 171:21176:7 201:3,13

bearing (3) 48:2179:23 142:15

beginning (4) 52:1873:2 77:7 138:21

begins (1) 165:21behalf (4) 35:8,11

76:14 182:2behaviour (1) 20:23believe (11) 54:12

60:22 118:20

120:11,13 130:14140:23 153:22154:12 155:18198:1

believed (5) 67:14137:14 138:8 144:1183:15

believes (1) 93:16benefit (2) 3:14 80:25benefits (3) 143:10,20

192:15best (11) 58:16,19

99:16 131:7 137:14151:7,9,10,12152:12 187:4

better (2) 44:1 52:14Bexleyheath (6) 78:10

80:21 82:16,2483:6,8

beyond (1) 157:6biased (1) 166:12big (4) 54:14 65:21

182:20,20Bina (1) 62:23Birdi (106) 1:16 18:23

19:1,5 20:9,1322:23 23:15,1724:15 25:20 29:934:24 36:3 39:1540:2,7,12,17 46:2,550:1 51:5 54:8 56:957:2,22 58:1 64:1765:6,7,12 71:9 74:776:25 77:3,6 78:580:23 81:3,7 82:1,489:24 90:1 92:1593:2,5,18,19 96:25103:13 108:21109:1 110:11 112:2113:14 114:10122:10,21 125:21126:12 147:16150:5 152:14153:12,14 154:2,3154:9,16 155:9157:9,13 158:12162:10 163:20,21164:9 165:19168:19,24 170:16173:17 176:5179:13 180:14181:19 182:4,14184:3,6 185:12,20185:24 186:9,17,25187:1,4 189:12,17190:17,22 202:14203:20

Birdi's (22) 1:9 38:1741:7 64:18 80:1086:12 93:20 94:1296:23 98:17 152:20153:11 155:17161:5 166:22 167:7168:24 177:10178:21 179:19191:4 193:21

bit (9) 79:10 81:1582:1 116:6,25148:14,15 160:7168:25

bitch (1) 186:20bits (1) 6:6blended (4) 60:2,8,13

87:22board (36) 25:14 26:9

26:13,19 27:2428:19,25 29:1,7,929:16,16 30:1232:24,25 33:945:23 59:5,7,9,13



59:14 61:7 87:2288:2 91:12 111:23120:20 165:6167:13 168:23,23179:6 184:6,9203:22

body (1) 125:11bona (1) 8:17bonus (37) 29:17

41:25 42:1,2,5,7,1442:17,17,20,2143:1,10,15 44:4,6,744:10,11,16,1945:2,6,16 46:2,1846:25,25 47:4,6,748:25 156:6,6191:8 192:23 193:5

bonuses (21) 9:1127:6,8 29:4 47:1447:21 48:14,1751:19 142:23143:10,16,18,20190:11,21 191:7,10191:11,14,18

bonusing (1) 193:4book (2) 131:24,24borne (1) 98:15borrowing (1) 8:19bottom (17) 1:8 6:12

6:18 7:21 19:2328:7 37:2,4 75:3,8116:12 141:19153:17 200:21201:5,7,18

bought (3) 93:7137:18 151:3

branch (1) 77:21breaches (2) 26:21

104:6break (4) 49:7,9

155:23,25breakdown (1) 110:12bring (1) 166:2bringing (2) 38:19

142:12brings (1) 179:6broken (3) 48:2 120:7

185:24Bromley (1) 80:21brother (3) 152:25

153:8,8brought (5) 39:22

140:7 144:7 178:12198:16

BT (1) 136:6budget (7) 59:3 68:4

68:12,21,24 69:2,6builders (1) 105:11bullying/intimidatio...

19:2bundle (17) 3:22,24

4:9 6:11,19 41:2449:3 50:4 84:196:18 112:20 132:4141:14 158:18161:21 178:18188:4

bundles (2) 65:17103:2

burden (1) 161:8business (90) 8:2 9:2

12:3 14:22 15:1116:23 25:17 32:2134:10 37:9 38:139:23,24 40:2147:2 48:8 50:2552:22 53:9 55:1756:2,6,10,14,2458:16,17 61:1471:7 75:21 81:1

88:18 94:13 97:397:13,18,23,2598:3,23 112:10115:13 118:6,8,13118:17 121:1,24122:14 123:1,10131:2 134:16135:18 136:7,21139:18 146:17147:25 148:22149:22 151:7,9,12152:8,9,12 158:11181:19,23 182:6,14182:16,20 183:2,3184:20 185:2,6,16185:18 187:9,12190:20 192:9,10203:1,2,19,22

businesses (1) 74:21buy (1) 5:17buyer (2) 80:5 145:16buyers (1) 38:5Buyer's (1) 145:7buying (10) 4:16 11:7

15:19 37:14 82:1783:6 93:9 148:14148:15 204:3

buys (1) 139:23B1 (1) 103:3

C

c (3) 3:23 188:4194:14

calamitous (1) 159:16calculated (2) 48:2

199:16calculating (1) 198:11calculation (14) 12:8

12:15,19,20 13:1314:2,9,15 43:1792:2 137:15 195:14197:22 198:9

call (5) 7:2 22:16 26:9110:15 135:25

called (3) 26:13 65:23113:2

Calling (1) 186:20camera (3) 108:24

194:8,12cameras (5) 108:25

134:8,20 194:15,16cancellation (1) 54:8cancelled (1) 163:21candidate (1) 140:24candidates (2) 137:13

140:15canvass (1) 46:17cap (3) 157:4,4 159:22capacity (5) 28:22

35:8 86:13 171:15190:19

capital (2) 12:20 51:21car (9) 63:1 188:16

189:17,19,20195:10,11,18,21

card (1) 188:13Carol (8) 29:6 31:21

32:1 55:23 64:1469:17 71:15 117:12

Carol's (1) 32:16carried (4) 19:11

50:23 96:1 186:24carries (1) 92:10carry (11) 17:22,24

21:19 24:24 25:725:16 56:10,1577:1 112:9 140:8

carrying (6) 5:10 24:2024:21 52:1 57:13182:10

case (16) 2:18 3:6 7:411:12 14:20 19:1840:1 47:10 54:2118:10 126:15127:22,25 146:9150:25 185:12

cases (1) 184:23cash (2) 72:9 199:14cashflow (1) 145:19casting (1) 26:20catch (3) 15:13 73:3

204:13Catherine (2) 113:2,3caught (2) 84:20 85:25cause (3) 2:23 123:17

180:5caused (3) 122:24

176:13 185:25cc'ed (4) 50:7 68:5,15

68:20CDG (1) 113:20cease (4) 66:6 95:13

95:16 193:9cent (44) 9:3 11:11,12

13:8,12,17,1843:13,14 44:15,1644:24 47:3,3,1275:4,7,7 79:8 80:385:15 94:18 95:1295:14 96:13 97:497:14 143:15 145:6149:3,18 156:23,25157:8,19 159:17,18159:21 160:4,20168:7 183:16 193:1196:18

central (1) 166:15centre (1) 69:4certain (2) 42:4

169:25certainly (4) 18:18

81:5 151:24 183:11cetera (25) 7:11 50:2

54:9,9 70:12 72:1272:12 85:18,18104:7 105:21 110:5110:8 132:1 139:4144:15 149:23150:13 162:13164:14,23 181:8,8192:15,16

chain (1) 95:2chairman (2) 26:20

69:17challenge (1) 48:3chance (3) 8:14 48:4

142:17change (3) 42:21

46:18 49:2changed (2) 115:22

116:8changing (1) 114:13chap (1) 140:15characters (2) 7:24 8:1charge (44) 46:24

48:21 49:24 51:2351:25 52:1 58:759:3,4 61:20,2562:23 63:16 72:2175:25 83:14 87:1787:21 88:3 91:1291:13,15,25 92:792:11 94:4 97:2598:11 101:12 102:4107:19 108:5 109:8109:24 110:4 112:4112:13,19 114:10116:3,15,20,23117:9

charged (20) 44:14

49:16 55:21 57:1461:6 89:7 90:2291:17,22 92:5100:9 101:4 102:11107:10 108:1,12,19111:7 115:8 172:2

charges (29) 49:2561:9 62:15,17 86:786:19 87:4,6,11,1388:9 89:7,11,1391:8,11 100:22108:4,13 109:4113:15 118:21138:14 165:25193:14,24 194:6,12194:16

charging (20) 61:1789:19 90:15,2592:10,13 93:14,1694:3,7,7 95:18107:17,18 108:2,15109:6,7 117:1118:21

chat (1) 7:3cheaply (1) 202:4check (2) 197:8 202:24checked (2) 1:16

113:16checking (2) 130:22

136:19chemistry (1) 204:5chimes (1) 11:4choice (1) 18:3choose (2) 58:10

203:8chose (3) 17:16

164:25 165:4chosen (2) 163:23

164:18chunk (3) 5:5 12:9

14:6circle (1) 132:20circumstance (2)

185:19 199:5circumstances (4)

111:22 177:18178:12 195:5

clarification (1) 171:20clarify (4) 35:21 84:6

174:2 196:22clarity (5) 38:24 114:8

114:14 117:17173:24

Clark (18) 20:20,2521:1 80:1 81:14110:12,14,16112:24 134:11,16134:20 162:5163:14 181:13183:1,5 197:11

Clark's (5) 110:7 114:4164:5 168:22180:13

clause (22) 124:3,5,7124:11,12,17,19,25125:25 126:1127:13,17,20 128:4177:10,19,19 178:4178:17,22 179:22180:6

clear (7) 3:8 5:14 15:122:12 36:20 87:14196:6

clearer (1) 114:11clearly (11) 76:21

79:12,17,18 94:10110:16 116:11119:24 120:19,20158:7

closing (3) 2:5,10,21

code (2) 74:25 77:19coffin (1) 167:14coincidentally (1)

15:12Collar (2) 75:15 76:3collectively (1) 106:3combined (1) 117:9come (26) 1:12 2:20

29:20,22 30:356:18 66:16 68:275:13,15 76:6,1976:21 88:17 99:4124:18 131:5 141:6163:15 169:12174:9 176:25 177:2185:15,15 187:7

comes (6) 25:2 29:1429:25 42:2 167:5175:3

coming (6) 23:1232:23 67:15 110:17176:17 194:23

commence (2) 95:17160:5

commenced (4)173:18 186:1,3,4

comment (10) 4:765:1,5 77:2 78:785:5 115:25 151:13161:17 182:11

commenting (1)167:17

comments (4) 21:2363:19 74:8 114:14

commercial (1) 202:25commit (2) 179:1,11commitment (3)

156:16 157:1159:25

commitments (1) 66:8committed (1) 26:22common (2) 199:5

203:18commonly (1) 199:19communicated (1)

42:13communicating (2)

69:24 75:24communication (1)

42:12communications (4)

172:16,17,19,24companies (2) 29:10

165:16company (44) 12:24

14:24 17:6,7 32:2534:4,7,11 35:1845:24 52:23 53:1055:18,19,20,2156:3 57:24 107:12110:3 111:5 112:1119:21 122:25139:5 146:6 148:12148:16 151:11165:6,8 172:1,2178:24 179:7,12188:16 195:10200:24,25 201:3,20201:22 203:16

compare (1) 44:20compared (1) 48:19comparison (1) 82:9complained (2) 18:24

19:1complains (1) 122:10complaint (2) 19:24

21:13complaints (4) 20:4,16

167:7 202:14complete (7) 2:15 42:5

42:7 72:12 96:2115:2 204:6

completed (9) 23:2141:1 54:7 79:1288:15 93:1,19 96:3102:18

completely (3) 42:18142:5 185:23

completing (1) 191:21comply (1) 127:4composite (3) 144:25

145:2 147:6compromise (6) 92:13

92:15,16,21 93:17187:2

concept (2) 131:11199:3

concern (1) 203:3concerned (3) 2:22

116:21 166:21concluded (3) 79:9

80:4 85:16conclusion (5) 80:18

181:11,16 185:15187:8

conclusions (1) 169:25condone (1) 63:20conduct (8) 19:25 74:6

98:17 119:6 120:4120:14 179:5 184:7

conducted (3) 16:917:12 161:15

conducting (6) 24:831:9 77:24 110:14153:24 190:19

confidence (1) 202:25confirm (1) 62:19confirmed (1) 172:14confused (1) 25:24conjunction (2) 129:7

129:8connection (2) 85:7

93:16conservatively (1)

81:17consider (14) 15:19

46:5,16 48:9 63:16144:22 153:20158:6 159:21 160:1160:21 174:16180:10 190:22

considerable (1)176:18

consideration (3)158:8 175:5 200:8

considered (11) 19:1838:13 64:19 131:17155:17 156:22159:24 160:3 173:6181:10 185:22

considering (7) 42:10131:14 154:2160:15,16 174:16200:9

consistent (2) 80:2285:5

consolidated (2)158:22 201:15

conspiracy (1) 151:5consult (2) 169:1

175:1Consultancy (1) 50:13consultant (5) 56:9,10

56:13 109:18133:19

consultation (3) 33:636:15,18

consulted (2) 168:14169:8

contact (4) 69:7 70:18

83:11 102:12contacted (1) 17:24contemporaneous (1)

198:1content (1) 174:4contents (1) 174:11context (8) 19:8 73:11

99:4 111:13 118:19118:20 190:25197:21

contingency (1) 82:15Contingent (1) 145:15continue (7) 21:16,19

33:7 58:20 92:1392:21 174:5

continued (4) 3:18,19206:2,3

continuing (3) 26:138:18 192:23

contract (9) 104:7106:9 144:2 177:11178:14,16,22179:16,17

contracts (1) 119:13Contrary (1) 177:23control (5) 23:3 60:19

78:2 88:13,17controlling (3) 24:7

129:13 149:22convened (2) 25:13

26:9conversation (5) 22:17

35:7 86:1,3 95:24conversations (6)

65:10,16 131:25141:1 170:7,8

convicted (1) 179:10copied (2) 76:7,8copies (1) 37:19copy (5) 6:3 113:20

114:12 134:18180:22

copying (1) 71:12core (2) 73:17,20corner (1) 6:13correct (106) 5:22 6:1

8:4 11:6 13:2015:22 17:11,1518:6 19:7,13 20:222:18 23:1 28:2128:24 30:9,13 32:932:19,22 33:1135:22,25 36:237:10,21 40:846:15 51:6,8,2253:22 58:3,5 59:859:10 62:8 66:1267:19 71:1,21 72:674:1 75:16 76:485:11 91:16 94:5103:22 104:10,12105:2 108:20,23109:6 111:21 112:5114:2 115:10,14117:6 122:23123:15,20 124:10124:22 125:1 126:5126:14 128:3,11130:6 131:10140:10 141:24143:21 148:8149:15 159:9162:22,25 163:4,17164:11 165:22167:21 173:7,10,13174:17,20 175:6176:6 177:16 183:6191:12,25 192:18194:13 197:10198:23 199:1,15



200:12,19corrected (1) 114:8corrections (2) 204:22

204:24correctly (3) 69:6

96:11 157:24correspondence (7)

39:7 65:14 69:471:14 76:20 90:7195:2

cost (19) 47:1 49:1949:23 52:4 56:2358:11 60:8,9,1362:24 69:4 107:10107:11,16,25 108:1108:3 109:15 111:2

costing (1) 48:23costs (42) 49:16,25

52:7 55:20 60:3,961:24 62:1,1998:14 100:8,10101:3,20,22 102:10106:25 107:3,4,4,8107:20,21 109:20109:24 111:11,16112:12,14,17,19,23115:9,12 116:16118:10 122:8138:16 149:22150:7,8 165:25

counsel's (1) 146:14counter‐allegation (1)

162:13counter‐argument (1)

177:13country (1) 157:1couple (6) 29:24 100:6

100:25 131:19193:13 203:24

course (9) 2:5 9:1041:5 70:23 106:15148:20 183:20203:4 204:15

court (2) 39:16 205:13covenants (1) 127:2cover (35) 23:12 49:15

49:17,19,22 54:454:12,15,16 55:7,855:11 56:1 57:758:15 70:24 71:380:22 81:18 89:292:12 98:6,8107:21,22 108:12111:5,17 117:11118:22 119:4 122:9136:6 138:15,16

covered (2) 71:8 72:7covering (1) 55:7covers (4) 107:15

115:8 116:16,20create (1) 40:1created (1) 183:12credentials (2) 105:12

130:22credit (5) 188:13

194:19,25 195:3,5criminal (1) 179:10Cristina (5) 7:8 33:2

96:22 153:13 154:4criteria (2) 78:5 79:1cross (1) 35:4crossed (1) 141:11cross‐examination (5)

3:19 73:2 97:1162:11 206:3

cross‐examined (1)152:21

current (4) 12:1119:15 78:9 136:5

currently (7) 38:25

84:24 85:3 89:1790:15,25 144:14

customers (1) 73:23Customs (1) 195:14cut (1) 160:13C/10/119 (1) 188:6C/10/122 (1) 189:1C/10/123 (1) 189:4C/10/124 (1) 190:8C/10/125 (1) 191:16C/18/184 (2) 193:12

193:25C/18/186 (1) 194:9C/18/187 (1) 194:19C/18/188 (2) 195:15

195:19C/18/189 (1) 196:2C/18/191 (1) 196:16C/9/103 (5) 16:7 22:9

49:14 103:24104:24

C/9/105 (2) 106:23110:11

C/9/107 (1) 110:24C/9/108 (2) 117:24

119:2C/9/109 (1) 121:21C/9/110 (1) 123:25C/9/111 (1) 128:23C/9/112 (3) 140:6

141:7 151:19C/9/113 (2) 152:13

153:18C/9/114 (2) 156:5

160:14C/9/115 (3) 156:15

159:23 162:5C/9/116 (3) 161:17

167:18 169:21C/9/117 (3) 180:9

181:17 184:5C/9/118 (1) 184:18

D

d (1) 194:14daily (8) 57:17 114:9

114:16,21 115:8116:3,15 121:16

Dame (2) 99:9 163:3Dartford (108) 7:2

8:10,22 10:1119:10,16 28:2329:1,1,8,8 33:7,1033:13,19 34:15,1734:23 35:1,2,9,1235:23 36:9 37:1338:6 40:24 49:1649:18 50:13,2351:4 58:13 62:1965:12 66:2,7 69:2270:7 71:3,7 75:1375:19 77:11,19,2080:15 81:20 82:984:14,18,20 89:1790:15,25 98:23100:7,18,23 101:1101:12 102:9111:23,24 112:10112:12,19,23113:15 115:18,24115:24 118:6,8,22121:23 122:13124:9 129:14,16132:19 133:7,8134:7,25 135:2,22135:23,24 140:7141:22 151:13154:14 155:11156:21 158:23160:2 165:12 172:2

181:19 183:8191:14,18,19,20192:3,4,7

Dartford's (1) 97:17data (2) 83:23 84:7date (5) 40:11 78:5

84:5 132:15 191:23dated (7) 6:18 7:20

15:8 83:21,23 84:284:13

David (10) 112:24113:5 114:12 116:6117:15 134:11,16134:20 168:22181:13

Dawn (3) 163:15164:7 168:22

day (77) 1:18 2:12,132:14,14,21,23 4:16:9 12:4 15:12,1420:6,9,12,18 32:2132:21 34:10,1042:15 43:11 44:144:13,14,15,18,2244:23 47:14,18,2247:24 48:1,3,4,750:24,24 52:22,2253:9,9,21 55:159:13 60:7,15,1660:17,20,21 61:2,361:4 65:23 72:5,1472:14,19 77:783:19,20 87:1490:11,16,25 92:792:10 108:1 115:12115:13 131:24136:18 138:22204:4 205:13

days (14) 47:11,13,2248:11 53:23,23,2488:10 115:11,15161:9,9 162:12184:7

day‐to‐day (42) 22:1923:3,13 25:10,1226:11 27:7 35:2,1136:7,12 46:8,2448:22 51:11,12,1651:18 52:1,4,2553:15,16 55:17,1855:20,24,25 56:2,656:8,11,14,16,1956:21 57:8,1298:14 112:15,16191:22

Day7/101:4 (1) 5:2Day7/102:10 (1) 5:6Day7/102:3 (1) 5:4Day7/103:22 (1) 5:8Day7/104:1 (1) 5:10Day7/99:13 (2) 4:12

4:24DC (1) 113:20DD (2) 89:14,15deal (20) 7:4 41:25

49:14 66:18 124:2144:24,25 146:23146:23 147:1,6,10148:11 152:13168:18 188:3,9,12194:11 205:2

dealing (15) 16:8 42:162:14,16 64:1668:1 75:23 106:24115:21 133:12161:4 167:6 179:25180:1,2

deals (2) 68:2 193:12dealt (13) 40:22 67:17

117:20 121:16

123:21 129:6176:20 181:12188:8,14,21 190:14195:22

debate (1) 34:2December (2) 7:20

163:13decide (4) 6:5,9 94:14

96:3decided (6) 21:18

39:11 76:24 136:20145:5 160:7

decider (1) 171:15deciding (2) 78:18

196:25decision (48) 17:20

18:14 21:6 22:339:8,8 41:6 45:751:17 56:14,16,1957:23 58:1,14,2059:16,20,23 65:2477:3,5 79:13,17,2199:22,23,24 103:15124:8 131:18 137:7138:7 140:12,13144:5,18 160:9161:25 167:13,25169:3 170:2 172:7173:8,9 176:17197:10

decisions (19) 33:835:11 51:11 67:4,567:6,9 76:14 79:1979:23 82:3 99:3,799:19 151:8 163:19164:13 180:13182:8

decision‐making (8)17:14,18 45:2070:20 142:9 153:23173:12 175:21

dedicated (1) 192:21deduct (2) 9:14 198:25deducted (2) 13:22,24deed (1) 127:2deem (1) 98:21deemed (1) 13:24default (1) 152:5definitely (1) 51:16del (9) 12:1 33:2 35:7

39:18 96:22 99:21152:22 153:13154:4

delegate (3) 34:9,2053:7

delegated (1) 52:19delegating (1) 58:8delegation (1) 53:11delivering (1) 149:23Denise (1) 196:24department (35) 4:17

5:20 9:2 19:1236:25 37:6,22,2438:2 58:22,2460:17 67:16 68:1771:24 72:3 80:1481:12,12,13 88:1190:18,19 91:1496:6 98:4 108:7109:4,5 136:21167:20 168:5 172:4175:20 183:21

departments (5) 39:583:4 166:20 183:19184:1

department's (4) 12:368:4,12 72:13

departure (5) 97:3,797:13 197:24198:12

depend (1) 67:6depending (4) 11:20

47:9 88:21 204:4depends (1) 202:7dept (1) 90:17Derek (21) 3:18 7:2,12

30:15,22 64:7,1284:20 90:12 95:595:11 100:5 101:10113:6,10,13,21132:11 133:5134:11 206:2

Dereks (1) 95:8derive (1) 15:3deriving (2) 15:4,4describe (4) 49:15

97:16 187:15203:13

described (7) 9:22,2410:8 34:21 45:5125:17 126:1

deserve (3) 185:7,18185:20

desire (5) 181:18184:19,23 185:1,5

detail (7) 3:7 114:3153:19 155:4 156:8167:17 196:11

detailed (2) 110:12183:7

details (3) 145:7 194:3201:10

development (2)109:18 133:19

diary (1) 131:25dictate (1) 168:10difference (5) 15:3

16:19 42:16 108:15108:17

different (10) 12:2134:6,12 42:18,2072:16,22 120:17194:12 203:15

differently (1) 104:8difficult (2) 140:1

187:16difficulties (1) 80:22digital (2) 134:8,20direct (1) 89:8directly (9) 81:13,13

88:10 182:21,23,23182:25 183:3,24

director (76) 16:1421:5 23:16,20 24:624:7,8 25:3 29:1033:7,10,14 35:8,935:17 36:7,9,1339:22,23 46:748:22 50:25 53:1653:16 56:13 57:1,257:6,19 58:7 67:569:22,24 78:480:25 82:12 89:25115:15 116:4,5,9,9118:10 124:13125:15,16 126:24127:15 128:7129:13,16 139:24140:22 142:1,22145:9 146:18 154:7154:15 158:10162:19,21 163:2,24164:21 165:8,10,25173:6 186:6 190:19190:23 191:9 192:2192:9

directors (45) 9:912:23 23:8 25:1132:20 33:17,18,1833:19,22,25,25

34:9,11,12,13,1434:14,22,23,2535:1,21,23,23 36:151:4,4 52:23,2453:7,10,12 111:6114:18,19 115:1,2118:9 159:20162:23,24 165:16192:10 204:6

directorship (2) 191:5191:6

disagree (2) 150:25151:2

disbelieve (1) 197:9disciplinary (37) 16:9

17:12,21,25 18:718:11 19:17,1922:9 41:1,8,13,1550:2 54:6 64:20,2179:15 88:15 89:190:3 93:1,3,18 96:498:18 99:14,24101:16 102:5,17103:13 107:4138:23 163:14167:1 187:25

disciplined (3) 104:15104:18,21

disclosed (2) 6:14,16disclosure (1) 7:17discount (1) 150:18discovered (1) 195:2discuss (7) 15:14

32:17 45:23 86:787:7,10 139:19

discussed (9) 19:439:10 83:15 84:1489:13,21,23,24167:19

discussing (6) 70:16100:18 129:22,25130:8 131:13

discussion (10) 87:4,596:10 133:6,24142:13 165:14,15172:9,11

discussions (6) 100:11100:15,24 101:25121:9 136:11

dishonest (7) 119:6,18120:4 121:3 152:15152:18 155:15

dishonesty (7) 119:7119:11,12,14120:18 123:5179:11

dismiss (1) 178:2dismissal (7) 53:18

54:23 55:4 106:20171:3 177:18 178:5

dismissed (6) 57:2104:25 105:4 106:6177:21 179:24

dispenser (9) 125:15125:19,21 126:6,12126:15,17,23,24

dispensing (3) 125:16125:24 126:25

dispose (3) 124:15127:15 128:7

dispute (5) 3:13,1484:7 171:1,2

disputed (2) 83:24,25disrepute (1) 179:7disruption (1) 39:21distributable (2)

198:20 199:8distribution (4) 149:7

149:8,11 201:9distributions (6) 8:18

142:18,23 143:17143:18 191:12

divide (1) 43:25divided (1) 10:5dividend (16) 8:10,19

8:22 12:8,16,1913:25 14:1,2 189:3189:11,13 197:23198:12,24 200:22

dividends (5) 142:17158:11 191:19192:11 199:4

dividing (2) 43:20,21division (1) 43:24document (40) 6:2,14

6:16 7:16 14:1315:3,4,8 16:2 44:873:6,10 77:14,1477:17 78:22 82:2183:21 85:12 121:4121:9,19 136:23154:22,25 155:1169:5,12 170:25173:24 174:10,11176:8,8,10 177:1183:17 197:25199:2 204:21

documentary (3)174:6 176:4 182:5

documentation (4)157:14 168:25170:14 174:25

documents (18) 7:1818:20 22:15 45:696:5 104:3,4106:11 121:17131:19 152:22170:16 171:24178:10 183:12,13189:25,25

doing (40) 18:4,7 23:523:6 25:22 29:631:8 35:19 39:1351:11,21 53:1556:13 61:11 71:5,775:2 90:14 104:20108:7,8 112:18119:10,25 120:9,25121:4 130:21133:13 138:11,12139:15 146:5 150:3150:5 176:19181:14 182:12192:10 197:16

Dominic (10) 109:19132:19 133:7,16,18133:19 134:2,3,7135:2

Dominic's (1) 133:21double (1) 61:5Doug (1) 73:15DO/Retail (1) 141:21draft (4) 168:6 169:12

172:7 176:16drafted (8) 12:1 168:9

169:6,7 176:10,13176:13 177:1

drawing (1) 14:14drawn (1) 7:9drive (4) 43:11,12 48:8

148:22dual (1) 146:5due (10) 26:7,8 66:7

67:9,10 78:8 96:1157:16 160:25189:18

duly (3) 25:13 26:9141:11

duties (6) 23:20 36:4,636:8 90:4 182:13



duty (1) 26:21DVL (2) 177:18 178:2Dyson (36) 3:18,20 4:2

6:21 12:25 14:8,2015:7 34:25 35:639:25 49:12 64:764:17 79:10 84:1190:24 95:21 97:21100:14 103:2112:15 133:9136:10 156:3171:23 172:14,24173:5,25 174:6,12202:2 204:11,13206:2

Dyson's (1) 3:25D/15/177 (2) 52:16

125:20D/15/180 (2) 34:3

52:20D/15/186 (3) 124:5

126:19 127:14D/27/365 (2) 158:19

200:16D/27/368 (1) 200:6D/29/395 (1) 201:16D/3/17 (1) 178:18D1 (6) 52:15 103:4

124:4 178:18,20,21D2 (2) 158:18 200:3

E

e (4) 107:4 109:12161:21 194:14

earlier (12) 38:11 64:274:22 87:2 98:13113:6 117:21 118:1183:14 196:3200:18 201:1

earliest (1) 10:2earn (1) 44:16earned (2) 47:21

139:1earning (4) 142:15

143:12 144:1,15easier (1) 117:18East (1) 80:20easy (1) 120:5effect (6) 43:1 48:16

77:6 177:22 178:25179:24

effective (1) 71:8effectively (10) 2:14

57:13 70:25 71:686:8,20 88:5119:11 124:23180:12

egg (2) 64:17,24eggs (4) 64:16 65:5

74:13,17eight (3) 47:17 54:17

69:15either (12) 11:22 40:4

44:15 61:8 64:1473:25 75:9 77:8168:10 177:22181:12 204:8

element (5) 46:283:14 111:16,19116:22

elements (2) 49:2150:3

else's (1) 122:17elucidate (1) 174:5em (2) 63:2,6email (33) 6:23 28:7

30:10 32:2,15 37:238:3 39:6 45:1350:7,18 62:3 64:1366:1,4 68:6,11,20

71:13,16 76:7,887:8 90:7 93:2294:9 95:2,22 101:9112:21 113:6,15118:2

emailed (2) 15:1368:21

emailed/copied (1)95:23

emailing (3) 64:684:16 100:4

emails (5) 68:15 94:25100:1 140:14144:19

emergency (28) 23:1225:15,20,23 26:3,426:5 49:15,19,2154:4,11,16 55:8,1156:1 61:25 70:2471:3 89:2 92:12107:2,15,22 108:12111:5 119:4 122:8

Emma (1) 6:24emoluments (1) 9:14employ (2) 120:6,14employed (5) 29:3

81:21 146:4,18192:7

employee (10) 8:1736:11 116:3,7,9,10191:18,21 192:12192:23

employees (4) 117:11179:12 196:21,23

employer (5) 29:232:25 191:20 192:4193:9

employment (23)23:18 46:6 53:1854:23 55:4 56:2190:4 104:5,5,6,7106:10,11,12,17119:12 143:1,20144:2 173:18,19180:1,5

enclosed (1) 114:14encompasses (1)

174:1endeavours (1) 192:12ended (3) 146:9 152:5

158:25endorsed (1) 140:19ends (2) 54:10 162:2engage (1) 187:23enjoyed (1) 158:12enquiries (1) 75:24ensure (1) 167:13enter (2) 77:9 154:16entire (1) 80:14entirely (2) 85:5

119:17entitled (20) 13:18

24:24 25:6 51:2386:15 91:12 92:1194:3 110:2,4112:13,19 155:5156:22 160:4171:23 172:3189:12 190:20199:10

entitlement (1) 143:23entries (1) 85:13envisaged (2) 54:5

138:22equalisation (5) 189:3

189:11,13,18192:20

equally (1) 40:18equates (1) 12:16equipment (1) 134:23

equivalent (3) 90:1590:25 116:15

Erm (2) 115:23 147:18error (1) 17:1especially (2) 5:5

194:14established (1) 71:24estimated (1) 145:17et (25) 7:11 50:2 54:9

54:9 70:12 72:1272:12 85:18,18104:7 105:21 110:5110:8 132:1 139:4144:15 149:23150:13 162:13164:14,23 181:8,8192:15,15

event (2) 177:19179:22

events (3) 20:6,1825:22

everybody (2) 44:14146:12

everybody's (1) 146:8evidence (30) 2:7 3:25

5:14,14 15:16,2215:23 16:3 20:1424:14 30:18 42:1651:10 59:11 60:1361:23 110:18 121:2130:24 143:7151:22 157:24173:5 176:4 180:15181:22 182:5 192:6192:8 201:18

evidenced (1) 84:15evidencing (1) 121:9evidential (1) 87:16exactly (7) 13:8,12

52:12 91:24 102:7115:14 154:9

examined (1) 48:25example (11) 61:23

68:14 106:18107:25 108:5 125:7125:7,22 158:1177:8,8

examples (3) 105:3180:3 181:7

excellent (1) 187:14excess (2) 53:19 54:24exchanged (1) 2:10Exclamation (2) 28:1

63:7excludes (1) 100:8executive (1) 178:25exercise (4) 8:15 9:1

10:9 78:8exercising (1) 55:10exhaustive (4) 177:20

178:11 179:22180:4

exist (1) 121:15existed (1) 174:6existing (4) 80:20

147:24 154:20203:20

exit (8) 76:25 77:3,594:13 185:5,8,23187:9

exited (3) 185:16,18186:6

expansion (1) 65:22expect (1) 81:19expected (1) 148:17expenses (5) 107:17

109:13 117:4118:13,17

experience (9) 15:580:21 142:4,6

149:2 178:7 179:25202:21 203:9

experienced (1) 67:25explain (4) 16:19

74:24 114:10117:13

explained (2) 142:14157:4

explains (1) 28:17explanation (9) 15:24

16:1 68:22 114:4118:25,25 194:20194:24 196:11

explanations (1) 110:8expressed (2) 78:11

198:8expression (1) 97:15extent (5) 23:11

107:24 151:2173:25 186:23

extrapolation (3) 54:154:3,21

extremely (3) 63:1974:14 161:11

E/100/457 (1) 36:23E/104/488 (1) 42:2E/1056/3132 (1)

180:24E/1068/4192 (2)

162:1 168:10E/1068/4199 (2)

162:2 177:9E/109/506 (2) 50:5

58:22E/128/546 (1) 61:24E/138/582 (1) 63:22E/139/588 (1) 64:4E/141/592 (1) 66:18E/155/637 (1) 66:23E/157/643 (1) 68:3E/157/644 (1) 68:15E/160/650 (1) 71:10E/179/700 (1) 73:1E/179/701 (1) 73:16E/184.2/710.5 (1)

84:3E/184/710 (1) 75:12E/185/711 (2) 77:14

85:13E/186/712 (1) 84:4E/187/714 (4) 83:18

84:17 86:5 88:8E/191/802 (1) 90:8E/192/803 (1) 94:25E/211/870 (2) 100:2

102:1E/213/872 (1) 101:10E/230/932 (1) 96:22E/230/934 (2) 96:19

97:2E/264/1073 (1)

103:11E/280/1176 (1) 132:5E/281/1177 (1)

131:22E/284/1180 (1) 132:6E/302/1210 (2) 135:8

138:2E/307/1217 (1)

141:15E/34/275 (1) 6:23E/349/1300 (1)

144:24E/389.1/1483 (1)

113:12E/389.1/1484 (2)

114:1,17E/389/1482 (1)

112:21E/44.1/360.1 (1)

197:20E/44.2/306‐24 (1)

197:19E/77/393 (1) 18:21E/77/394 (1) 20:3E/86/418 (1) 24:2E/86/426 (1) 24:4E/88/433 (1) 27:2E/88/434 (1) 27:19E/95.1/448 (1) 45:11E/95/447 (2) 28:5 45:9E/97/450 (1) 32:10E15 (4) 161:21,23

181:1,2E2 (7) 3:23 6:19,22,23

24:1 197:18,18E2/393 (1) 18:21E3 (4) 50:4 72:23,25

90:6E4 (3) 90:6 103:3,4E5 (7) 103:6,6,8,9

131:20,21 141:14E5/1177 (1) 131:22E6 (1) 112:20

F

face (2) 83:22 100:21face‐to‐face (1)

168:18facilitate (1) 136:1facing (1) 166:20fact (17) 28:10 29:5

43:22 61:18 66:982:4 93:21 120:21140:16 154:23158:9 159:16160:13 162:8 163:7200:16,16

facts (2) 155:5 171:20factual (1) 3:12fact‐heavy (1) 2:18failed (1) 187:10fair (8) 14:6 121:25

147:17 166:25167:2,5,8,9

fall (1) 12:2fallen (2) 105:21

185:21Faller (1) 135:13falls (1) 177:18false (6) 123:7,9,14,16

123:18 181:19family (2) 104:8

106:18far (6) 2:22 46:6 65:3

105:13 166:21187:6

father (2) 104:4106:12

father's (1) 104:5fault (1) 123:16favour (1) 74:12favourite (1) 42:22February (12) 4:15

5:18 6:25 9:2 15:822:25 39:17 136:22136:24 168:17186:2 198:13

fee (1) 91:2feel (1) 32:5feelings (1) 21:22feels (1) 192:12fees (8) 90:16 91:1

93:17 109:17116:23 136:6,7138:14

fellow (2) 112:2 186:5felt (2) 140:19 158:16Fernandes (1) 196:23fide (1) 8:17

fiduciary (1) 26:21field (1) 75:22fifth (1) 177:13figure (17) 9:18 12:2

13:5,8,9 43:20 48:154:10 138:25 139:8143:22 147:25159:12 196:2198:15,21 199:16

figures (14) 10:4,1311:20 13:21 27:1528:9 30:3 53:21142:10 158:1 194:3194:5,20 195:6

filled (1) 79:11final (7) 103:25 104:2

113:20 130:12166:4,5 167:14

finalising (1) 106:23finally (7) 41:24 71:19

96:17 139:23181:15 193:11204:13

financial (13) 25:1167:5,6 68:17 74:2592:1 94:4 121:23122:13 200:24201:2,20,22

find (10) 3:9 24:159:12 69:3 86:6113:14 140:13166:24 178:18187:19

finding (1) 83:10findings (6) 21:1

102:16 163:14169:9,11 172:16

fine (13) 19:8 55:971:19 97:11 103:23110:22 135:6 144:1174:8 176:3 177:3195:10,25

finger (1) 197:19fingerprints (1) 183:9finish (2) 3:2 151:14finished (2) 103:4,5finishes (1) 2:7firm (2) 98:22 202:18first (27) 7:8 16:7 24:2

49:13 68:6 73:1781:9 90:17 101:12102:4 106:20 119:2123:23 124:2,20127:18 128:9 132:9134:21 136:23156:4 178:8 181:15189:3,18 193:24202:19

fishing (1) 61:15five (16) 12:17 15:18

47:13,22 53:23,2387:2 106:7,8 121:7153:12 155:23161:9 196:21,23197:6

five‐minute (1) 49:7fix (2) 120:7 142:9fixed (4) 87:1,16,20

91:2fixing (2) 4:16,17flick (7) 71:10 72:25

94:23 106:22 135:6144:24 193:11

flicking (1) 197:17flight (2) 204:14,16focus (3) 57:16,21,23focused (3) 48:8 80:25

93:22follow (3) 79:15 187:2

187:24

following (12) 30:1630:23 31:20 33:635:6 41:8 95:1104:10 107:8 113:6170:16 205:13

follows (1) 33:24forcibly (2) 184:19

185:1foresaw (1) 40:11foreseeable (1) 12:12forever (1) 193:7form (3) 94:12 175:1

176:3formal (2) 19:24

188:20formally (1) 19:19format (2) 145:3,4formed (2) 106:5

167:6forth (5) 172:17,19,23

172:25 173:2forward (9) 43:11,12

48:9 67:16 89:2140:19 148:22198:16 201:14

forwarded (2) 63:2366:5

forwards (2) 30:7,10foul (1) 185:21found (1) 115:14four (12) 4:10 106:2,8

111:1 115:12 122:7153:12 162:12168:20 176:19178:3 184:7

fourth (2) 153:17193:21

fraud (9) 119:7,10,12119:14,23,23 120:2120:17 123:5

fraudulent (14) 83:11119:6,18,19 120:4120:5,6,8,12,14,16120:20 121:5,17

fraudulently (1)121:11

frequent (1) 203:23Friday (16) 1:11,17 2:7

2:8 3:2,24,25 4:64:19 5:24 6:25 7:2012:4 15:11,1741:16

friend (5) 171:17172:25 204:22205:3,10

friend's (1) 197:25Frondigoun (6) 20:12

23:25 24:3 31:17186:8,13

full (3) 3:9 111:12160:17

full‐scale (1) 119:3function (1) 58:9functionalities (1)

72:16functions (1) 56:11fundamental (3) 42:14

46:18 118:24further (7) 23:24

116:22 167:19175:13 182:3 195:2201:24

future (9) 8:18 12:1278:9 94:19 98:2299:15 145:18,18150:11

G

gain (2) 67:21,23gather (1) 25:1



general (1) 167:7generalisation (1)

185:4generally (1) 136:2generate (1) 66:10generating (1) 65:25generous (1) 27:25gentleman (1) 20:20getting (12) 11:25

71:13 105:15 114:3117:14 138:9 143:4148:11 154:3 192:1192:4 193:1

gift (2) 26:17 195:10gifted (2) 189:20

195:13Girollet (2) 158:5

180:23give (19) 4:7 7:2 8:13

22:21 52:17 57:2157:22 58:6 61:1074:19 80:5 85:7,17105:3 110:17 158:8169:15 171:18180:15

given (24) 3:23 40:1047:11,18 48:1661:2 78:12 87:195:21 98:17 103:13122:10 143:11151:22 154:10,11164:20 165:19168:11,11 171:4173:9 174:15 202:4

giver (1) 58:2gives (6) 9:18 58:7,11

98:11 150:21174:10

giving (10) 29:3 48:151:10 77:4 82:20114:13 150:17157:25 172:19203:1

Glass (5) 7:23 8:1,514:20 37:19

go (53) 4:5,9 7:4,128:14 17:20 18:2022:7 24:15 27:128:4 32:12 33:957:10 59:17 67:872:23 76:1 77:1077:13 80:19 81:1583:18 90:6 96:1899:14 100:1 112:20117:23 126:19134:4,14 136:13140:3 157:6 158:18159:22 161:21,24168:14 169:8 170:9171:8 174:7 178:14178:15 181:15187:17 188:4191:16 192:16197:20 204:5

GOC (1) 125:11goes (7) 2:22 12:5

25:10,11 29:1598:16 193:25

going (92) 1:22,23 3:33:13 4:22 14:1915:7,16,21 21:1824:15,18,20 26:2,328:18 30:1,1138:22,25 39:20,2541:6 47:1 55:1,2,373:2 76:16,1880:13 81:3,7 83:1383:14 87:10,1188:22 89:2,7 93:1793:19 94:11,12,13

94:14,16 96:1499:19 102:16108:11 117:22120:12 121:3124:24 128:22129:21,23 130:7131:11 133:17137:10 141:25142:3,3,25 145:6146:22 148:19149:25 150:16152:2,4 154:16,18155:3,13 158:7164:8,9 168:2,8,19170:15 174:12176:22 183:16188:23 190:6192:11 202:6 203:2

gold (3) 65:25 66:2,10good (11) 1:3,4 3:20

3:21 38:20 48:1582:9 96:8 109:12148:21 159:15

grand (1) 138:11grateful (1) 205:7Gravesend (9) 37:12

38:13 78:10 82:1582:17,24 83:1,5,9

Grays (10) 135:25140:21 142:14143:12 144:2 145:9153:22 154:8 155:9155:11

Grazia (9) 12:1 33:235:7 39:18 96:2299:21 152:22153:13 154:4

great (4) 149:23156:16 157:1159:24

greatly (1) 80:25green (1) 75:1grievance (1) 19:5gross (4) 106:4,5,21

179:1group (20) 16:21 17:2

21:3,4,5 40:3,541:3 77:10 84:2585:4,9,22 88:2196:8 97:16 152:2,5152:6,8

Groves (8) 27:4 42:2564:14 65:25 67:1469:7,24 71:11

Groves's (2) 63:2366:4

guarantee (2) 149:24150:1

guarantees (1) 120:10Guernsey (3) 8:7

16:21 17:2guess (2) 72:2 132:6guessing (4) 18:16

59:22 71:24 72:1guilt (1) 41:21guilty (2) 41:17 179:5guys (1) 75:8

H

ha (2) 63:12,12hade (1) 144:16half (9) 2:14,21 46:13

46:13 97:9 114:21118:4 145:8 187:11

Hamilton (6) 18:8,1162:3,21 109:18,22

Hamilton's (2) 62:1462:16

hand (4) 113:7 144:16176:12 205:5

handed (4) 1:5 6:4171:5 204:22

handwritten (1)169:16

happen (3) 23:2296:14 168:20

happened (12) 48:1148:12,21 51:20105:17,19 142:13155:9 158:3 171:9175:8 203:23

happens (4) 23:1142:23 199:19203:25

happy (5) 6:10 33:664:14 142:14,18

harassing (1) 186:1harassment (1) 186:4hard (2) 161:11

192:21harsh (1) 82:1Hart (5) 75:17,20

76:11,13,13Hart's (1) 75:21head (2) 66:10 178:22heading (13) 63:24

114:16,21 123:24132:9 133:5 146:23147:1 181:16190:11 191:11193:13 194:9

health (2) 105:13,19healthy (1) 201:23hear (8) 14:19 31:10

163:16,18,23 165:4165:11,17

heard (4) 135:17155:14 162:11174:3

hearing (6) 19:1964:22 98:18 163:18163:19,22

held (1) 98:18help (4) 74:20 93:23

126:8 204:10helped (1) 197:11helpful (3) 3:6,9,11helping (3) 48:8 75:25

161:7helps (1) 89:18Hi (7) 28:8 37:11 38:4

84:19 95:4 113:5135:20

high (2) 150:22 155:3hire (1) 63:1historic (2) 105:16

200:25HM (1) 195:13HMRC (7) 145:17,22

146:3,5,10,15196:1

Hm‐mm (9) 59:6 65:280:24 101:21,24125:14 169:4 185:9191:16

hog (1) 7:13hold (3) 32:7 151:20

151:24holders (1) 34:16holding (2) 97:4,14holds (1) 97:17hole (1) 73:18holepunch (7) 68:6

96:25 97:5,9,10132:10,18

holiday (2) 66:9136:14

home (1) 60:6honest (1) 77:4honesty (1) 73:20

hope (1) 204:15hopefully (1) 203:11hoping (1) 147:15hour (4) 51:9 108:2,4

108:5hours (4) 29:24 115:2

149:23 161:8Howarth (3) 37:22,22

131:3hugely (1) 43:23hundreds (1) 61:16husband (4) 1:9

106:13 122:25123:1

husband's (1) 104:5

I

idea (23) 13:1 17:1731:11,12 41:1450:11,11 76:1978:20 82:23 87:8100:16,20 101:6,7133:16,22 135:5136:17 139:12,14170:23 175:11

identified (3) 30:16,2331:20

if/when (1) 38:14ignore (1) 128:4ignored (1) 184:6ignoring (1) 153:25ii (1) 127:1illness (2) 54:9 139:3illustrative (2) 178:4

178:10imagine (2) 38:23

134:17immediate (4) 9:25

177:21 178:25179:24

immediately (1)154:24

Imogen (1) 75:15implications (2)

119:24 155:11importance (2) 153:20

153:23important (9) 18:12

71:16 90:21 91:21167:1 170:25202:17 203:8,10

impose (1) 56:23imposed (1) 202:16imposition (1) 166:10impractical (1) 21:14impression (1) 80:2improper (1) 186:9improve (3) 44:15

93:14 94:8improved (2) 157:2,17improving (2) 156:20

160:2inappropriate (2)

20:23 38:21inaudible (3) 173:16

191:7 202:20incapacitated (1) 54:9incentive (1) 150:23include (3) 70:14

71:16 101:3included (1) 117:8includes (3) 9:11

53:17 74:4including (6) 50:1

51:19 116:16143:10,10 164:5

income (8) 59:3 68:2169:2 86:9,12,2190:17 91:14

incomplete (1) 104:3

inconvenience (1)2:24

incorporate (1) 60:2incorrect (4) 92:2,3,4

94:6increase (10) 43:14

156:11,23,25157:21 159:22160:4,23 161:12200:11

increased (1) 156:5increases (12) 28:2,10

29:4,17,17 32:2342:4,11 123:22196:16,17,19

increasing (1) 192:21incur (5) 55:2,3 107:20

107:21 118:9incurred (17) 107:8,9

107:10,13,16,19,25108:2,3,18 109:3109:13,15,17,20110:1 112:17

incurring (2) 108:16109:8

independent (3) 21:25118:6,8

index (2) 84:5 206:1indication (1) 78:11indicative (2) 65:2,6indirectly (2) 81:14

182:21individual (12) 61:20

93:23 114:14125:10 130:9,14,14131:15 140:20142:7 164:23192:21

individuals (1) 131:17induction (2) 134:17

134:18inexperienced (1)

81:20infers (1) 31:15inflation (1) 28:11information (14) 9:5

75:23 76:1 83:23115:5 143:11144:16 154:10,11168:11 197:8,11200:25 201:2

initial (1) 136:2initially (2) 32:11

81:22injured (1) 105:15innocent (1) 17:1input (10) 17:13 22:8

22:12,13,16 24:624:10 45:15 49:2482:7

inserted (2) 145:7147:23

inside (1) 109:24insight (1) 174:10install (2) 56:5,5instructed (1) 17:22instruction (1) 184:6instructions (3) 1:14

96:12 187:3insurance (1) 105:14intend (2) 73:24

151:24intended (1) 151:20intending (1) 161:17intention (4) 181:22

182:2,4,14interest (4) 78:11

124:16 127:16135:2

interested (8) 31:10

40:24 64:13 82:1782:25 83:6 102:15111:10

interests (6) 58:13,17151:7,9,10,12

internal (5) 7:17 75:1577:19 107:19 172:4

internally (1) 97:15international (1) 65:22interpret (1) 89:5interpretation (5)

86:24 102:8 143:11177:10 180:6

interpreted (1) 94:9interpreting (1) 88:25interview (4) 21:25

30:20 31:12,16interviews (16) 24:2

24:11 30:16,18,1930:23 31:2,3,4,5,631:9,13,14,18,20

intimidating (1) 20:13introduce (3) 40:20

204:1,1introduced (3) 82:12

203:18,21introducing (1) 38:22introduction (2) 84:23

136:3investigate (3) 7:11

79:14 186:4investigated (4) 39:12

39:24 115:11164:13

investigating (1) 60:20investigation (84)

17:22 18:5,9,1019:10,14,16 20:2121:17,19 23:2024:9,20,22,25 25:725:17 26:1,23 31:838:19 39:15,1740:12 41:1,8,1350:1 54:6 58:22,2460:10,17 61:8 62:162:15,17,20 72:1780:9 87:25 88:1489:1 90:2 96:2,499:13 100:9 102:13102:17 103:10107:4 108:11,21110:5,15 111:3,11111:16,19,20 112:2112:9,10,11,18119:3 121:22122:12,16,21123:12 130:22138:16,23 139:3146:5,7,16 150:8162:5,6 187:25195:3

investigations (2)23:24 181:14

investigator (1) 59:1investigatory (1) 21:25invited (2) 19:19

115:25invoiced (2) 67:7

68:23invoices (19) 50:13,18

50:23 63:23 66:1966:20 67:8,11,1568:2 100:6 101:1115:13 119:21,25120:10,22 194:9,25

invoicing (4) 60:16,17100:10 101:25

involve (4) 23:15 46:269:23 134:20

involved (48) 4:15

14:23 17:17 18:918:18,24 22:342:25 47:6 48:1359:23 65:21 70:2071:13 89:4 103:17110:9,20 112:11114:3 117:14128:24 129:5,21,24129:25 130:4,7,8130:13 131:3,12136:10 139:21141:7,9 144:5153:8 162:9 163:10163:12,15 164:8,15164:24 182:11188:22 189:23

involvement (13) 19:262:13 64:3 95:1395:16,17 117:2121:8 152:15 183:8184:12 188:17196:25

involving (4) 100:1119:3 155:15173:17

in‐house (1) 96:8issue (23) 1:8 4:13,20

26:24 27:1,9 30:1730:24 31:21 49:1466:23 68:4 69:181:17 105:16,19152:14 153:5,7162:12 171:12179:13 197:18

issued (1) 195:3issues (10) 105:13,14

105:14 153:14162:10 164:1,2176:5,20 180:2

issuing (2) 101:16102:5

item (6) 8:1 135:3145:12,13 193:24194:19

items (7) 133:6 138:19139:4,11 150:7194:12 196:14

J

January (5) 132:4,5,7133:9 191:23

Jill (4) 80:1 81:14183:1 197:11

Jita (1) 196:24job (8) 27:5 127:11

133:13 134:22139:18 155:4164:24 197:16

jobs (1) 134:21John (6) 135:14,15,15

135:20 136:13,19join (1) 203:1joined (5) 134:16

152:10 156:21160:3 161:13

joining (1) 23:15joint (10) 41:9 67:25

131:4 147:15148:21 150:10152:11 154:17,21202:17

journey (2) 54:11187:11

judge (3) 166:19201:25 206:5

July (11) 66:7 71:11112:22 157:17,18157:22,25 158:17159:1,15 160:5

jumped (1) 29:12



June (10) 44:17,19,2044:21 63:22,2364:3,4 65:11 68:23

jury (1) 166:19JUSTICE (86) 1:3,6,10

1:23,25 2:3,8,13,172:20 3:2,6,12,176:5,8,14,17 12:1814:8,11,13,18 15:133:16,21,23 34:5,834:13,16,19 35:435:14,16 36:18,2140:9 41:2 49:5,7,1174:24 83:20,2484:5,10 102:21103:1 134:2 146:2146:7,13,21 149:12149:14 155:20,23156:2 172:6,13173:4,21,23 174:12174:18,21 175:3,7175:12 198:3,7199:24 202:1,13203:17 204:7,10,15204:18,24 205:1,4205:7,9,11

justification (1)156:13

justified (1) 191:8justify (1) 160:22justifying (1) 157:21JV (13) 41:10 63:3

66:13,15 73:2574:4 185:6,13,16185:17 187:14203:18,20

JVA (7) 147:14,23,24154:18,20,23,23

JVP (13) 81:23 105:22106:16 124:9 140:9152:25 153:8156:20 177:21178:2 179:23184:19 185:1

JVPs (4) 77:8 119:5149:14 156:25

K

Kam (2) 135:23 145:9Kam's (1) 136:3Kaur (1) 125:7keep (4) 111:5 181:25

192:24 197:19Kelly (4) 50:8,10,16

64:1Kidd (1) 157:15Kinsella (1) 196:24knew (5) 24:19 31:24

41:22 82:24 170:25know (87) 6:19 7:12

8:5,21 18:15 22:524:18 25:18 26:1626:17,21,23 27:1428:15 29:5 31:4,638:21 40:24 41:541:12 45:3 47:1950:10 52:12,1260:3 62:9,10,11,1264:1,2,23 65:2267:14 71:15,2479:11,11,18 81:8,982:5,5,15 83:8,2587:18 93:24 95:2599:12,20,25 102:2102:15 113:4130:18 131:16,16133:3 135:3 139:8152:21 153:12154:20 155:5 157:5165:3,5,7 171:9

172:10 175:8176:24 178:9179:17 182:9,9185:22 187:3,20192:8 193:7 194:23198:10 204:7

knowing (2) 136:17180:2

knowledge (20) 14:1514:17 39:3,6 61:1480:14 82:6,19,2183:5,12 183:18184:12 189:5 190:3194:5,15 195:4,21196:6

KS (1) 147:2

L

la (1) 92:15lack (7) 106:9,9,10,10

121:2,4 173:24lady (1) 197:14large (4) 104:20 119:9

122:25 181:6late (4) 1:20 64:4

76:23 129:9latest (1) 37:12Laura (1) 68:16law (2) 3:14 180:2lawyers (2) 172:17

175:4layer (1) 56:5lead (3) 120:11,13

178:5leadership (10) 57:16

57:21,23 58:2,6,961:13 71:8 107:23203:10

leading (1) 57:17leads (1) 57:8leave (5) 32:7 82:4

146:10 175:16197:5

leaves (1) 199:4leaving (4) 71:11

95:17 168:5 199:10lecturing (1) 1:18led (1) 164:4left (7) 22:25 75:14

128:24 146:1,5,19162:23

left‐hand (1) 146:24legal (28) 17:23 18:18

32:17 36:15,1978:17 113:16165:15 167:20168:5 169:9 171:4171:5,8,17,19,21171:23 172:3,4,20174:23 175:2,8,20176:11,22 177:2

legitimate (9) 91:8,991:10,10 118:13,16118:22 121:1 184:6

length (4) 33:12138:20 161:17162:11

letter (20) 19:9 96:2096:21,22 103:11110:7 112:25114:11,15 115:21141:10,10 142:25158:4,6 168:24180:16,17,19,19

let's (8) 16:5 43:2047:23 80:19 81:15123:23 124:2131:19

level (19) 12:12 28:1928:25 29:16,16

30:12 71:13 79:1379:18,20 87:11,13142:4,18 147:20148:12 150:22155:3 182:12

levels (1) 105:7liability (8) 145:15,17

145:23 146:3,16,17146:20 196:1

lieu (2) 177:23 178:2light (1) 15:8likelihood (1) 41:20Lillington (2) 113:2,3Limited (13) 8:10

33:19 34:15,17,2435:1,2,10,24 36:9111:23,24 158:23

Linda (6) 62:6,12,1863:10,10 134:11

line (10) 4:12 6:1828:11 114:9 151:19153:17 174:8 201:5201:7,19

lines (8) 4:24 5:1,4,5,85:10 111:1 122:7

linking (2) 100:22,23list (12) 7:24,25 53:14

105:10 120:8,15177:20 178:4179:23 180:3,7197:6

listed (1) 84:5listening (1) 43:19litigation (1) 173:17little (7) 55:14 65:25

66:2,10 89:18100:1 122:9

lived (1) 74:6living (1) 60:6loan (3) 12:21,23,23locum (1) 161:6locumming (1) 153:5locums (1) 161:4log (1) 115:2logical (1) 170:17London (1) 133:20long (20) 1:23 26:2,4

48:14 99:13 123:17130:17 142:7 150:1150:2,5,6 151:21159:22 161:8 170:7170:8 180:17,19203:14

longer (7) 14:24 26:358:2 89:2 121:15162:21 204:4

long‐term (2) 105:2151:25

look (18) 4:22,23 6:212:9 27:9,19,2328:18 30:11 31:2462:17 68:14,19124:11 126:8140:14 144:8178:16

looked (3) 131:6137:12 184:1

looking (12) 8:2114:13 16:2 27:544:3 58:12,16,2159:17 145:12 158:1178:17

looks (9) 9:25 12:714:7 32:12 34:163:10,15 88:18133:5

loose (1) 6:6Lord (24) 1:4 2:4,25

6:3,10 15:6 33:2034:4 36:17 40:15

49:4 74:22 102:20155:22 171:12172:9 173:15 174:8175:14 199:22200:1 204:9,20,21

Lordship (16) 1:4 2:52:11 9:23 10:9 11:414:1 16:19 35:2241:16 51:9 83:22113:3 196:2,5205:6

Lordship's (1) 7:25Lorraine (2) 23:25

24:3lose (1) 40:13loss (26) 10:15 19:12

60:4 72:3,22 78:879:9 80:4,9 85:1686:7,19 89:1790:18 93:25 95:1295:16 98:4 107:2,3109:3,4 142:22158:22 160:18183:21

losses (2) 139:1198:19

lot (8) 3:7,12 40:1961:2,5 75:6 98:7142:17

lots (9) 42:20 72:1974:19 101:19142:16,16 170:13203:6,6

lower (5) 12:2 90:2291:22 92:5 107:18

lucky (1) 3:2lunch (1) 106:24Lunn (31) 36:25,25

37:5,5,7,18 38:378:3,4 79:24 83:1383:19 84:15,1685:20 86:1,24 88:488:18,24 90:8,1493:22 94:22,2595:24 96:6,11 98:5117:24 118:2

Lunn's (2) 88:17 95:17

M

Maidstone (2) 152:23153:3

main (3) 60:4 118:11166:18

majority (5) 74:14,1674:18 164:1,2

maker (2) 173:8,9making (26) 17:20

54:20 67:9 81:588:2 91:14 92:2499:2,7,14,18,19109:9 138:6 142:16143:4 146:11,12165:21 174:21,24175:10 182:8187:23 197:10203:4

malicious (4) 186:16186:18,19,20

man (10) 37:19 44:1162:3 79:24 84:1599:2 108:9 112:24130:23 135:17

manage (3) 27:7 136:2182:3

managed (1) 89:2management (80)

10:13 13:9 22:2023:12,14 25:10,1326:11 34:10,2135:3,11 36:12

49:15,17,19,2250:24 51:12,13,1751:18 52:2,4,19,2252:25 53:4,9,12,1553:17 54:4,12,1655:8,11,17,19,2055:24 56:1,5,7,8,1156:16,19,21 57:1369:21,23 70:1972:9 79:13,17,1979:21 88:13 90:1691:1 100:8 101:3101:20 102:10107:2,15,22 108:12111:5,17 112:15,16114:16,21 119:4122:8 138:15,16191:22

manager (7) 37:761:25 75:13,22116:21 135:18139:18

managers (3) 70:11,1289:20

manager's (1) 150:7managing (9) 28:22

50:24 55:25 56:256:14 69:5 158:14160:8 161:2

Mancini (1) 123:12manual (2) 73:4,8manuscript (10)

169:18,24,25170:11,19,21 172:7173:11 175:17,24

March (9) 20:9 22:2325:21 135:8 137:23138:13,13 141:14167:23

mark (4) 16:22 28:162:7 133:15

market (1) 197:13Markham (1) 37:24marks (1) 63:7mark‐up (1) 89:8Mary (2) 99:9 163:3mass (1) 75:5matchmaking (1)

203:12material (10) 155:5,8

173:9 174:1,4,6,15174:18 175:9,9

materials (2) 169:19169:25

matter (19) 56:6,863:24 89:20 98:8100:18 110:23121:8 129:6 130:21141:8 154:6,7,15155:10 166:14172:18,20,21

matters (16) 23:1324:25 26:10,1135:5 40:21 110:7121:23 122:13152:15 155:15164:24 174:19175:5 188:21193:21

maturity (1) 11:1Maura (1) 135:13maximum (1) 12:20McAlindon (75) 4:15

4:19 5:18,19 6:2412:5 15:12,20 18:418:8,10,24 19:620:5,13,17 21:1621:18,23 23:2324:11,13,19 26:2527:5,9,20 28:7 30:4

30:6,7,25 31:7,2432:3 38:18 40:141:17 50:7 58:2159:23,24 60:2261:6,18 62:4 64:5,865:1 68:16 70:2371:12 76:3 84:1687:21 89:21 90:891:12 93:15,2194:1,21 95:1 100:4100:17 108:13123:17 165:21183:20 185:21,25186:7,16 197:5204:20

McAlindon's (15) 19:219:25 27:11 40:1241:14 59:5 65:2,668:4,11 88:11 89:8108:7 204:25 205:1

McGonagle (1) 136:1McIntyre (2) 163:15

181:13McIntyre's (3) 164:7

168:22 180:13McLaughlin (15) 49:23

55:23 58:10 61:2,484:23 88:9,12107:18,25 108:2,3108:4,8 117:12

McLaughlin's (4) 89:7193:14,24 194:6

Meagher (1) 6:24meals (2) 60:7 116:16mean (21) 24:12 49:1

59:9 71:15 99:1,11116:10,14 118:12120:23 121:7128:16 130:17,18133:25 139:25148:18,25 153:2199:8 202:6

meaning (1) 116:8meant (4) 17:1 35:21

35:22 198:3mediate (1) 187:2mediation (1) 188:2meet (2) 69:15 187:11meeting (12) 22:16

25:14 26:10,13,1959:15 69:14,18136:2 168:23 184:9203:22

meetings (3) 54:8 76:1121:9

Mel (11) 28:8 32:1450:20 64:8 68:1684:19 95:4 101:8,9101:11 102:3

Mel's (2) 38:15,16member (4) 47:12,14

106:18 137:2members (15) 23:25

24:15 42:4 44:2445:23 47:5,17 48:789:22 104:8,9164:15 182:5,6183:15

memo (1) 137:25memos (1) 65:16mention (3) 91:3

103:20 162:8mentioned (1) 74:22Mercedes (1) 66:24merely (1) 111:25message (1) 71:18meta (2) 83:23 84:7methodology (3) 11:5

58:18 172:11Michael (8) 83:11

135:16,17 136:1,13137:9,14,25

middle (3) 75:6,8118:5

mightn't (1) 121:18Mike (10) 10:11 37:11

136:18 137:1 138:6139:17 143:24144:8 155:2,4

million (14) 139:6,6148:4,7,9,13,17,18148:24 149:1,24159:6,7 202:5

mind (6) 21:11 48:21102:8 142:15165:13 170:20

mine (2) 65:25 66:10minimum (3) 147:22

148:12,17minus (1) 149:10minute (2) 59:15

118:19minutes (1) 155:23minutiae (1) 115:21misconduct (5) 105:8

106:4,5,21 179:1missed (1) 72:24missing (1) 104:3mistreatment (1)

181:7misunderstood (1)

190:2model (1) 152:12moment (14) 27:22

34:2 38:5,15,16,1939:9,20 69:1184:11 124:18173:23 174:2,3

Monday (5) 1:1,13 2:93:3,4

Mondays (1) 43:23money (18) 46:9,13,14

47:2 48:23 101:19102:9 104:20119:10 122:19,25142:16 144:3 146:8148:25 158:7199:13 201:8

monies (1) 67:1monitoring (1) 75:10month (9) 47:5 48:2

48:16,18 55:356:10 115:12 159:2159:3

monthly (5) 12:17100:9 102:11201:12,19

months (6) 38:11 54:554:17 138:23 159:1159:4

month's (1) 47:9Moore (8) 83:11

157:15 167:20168:12,21 169:2170:7,8

moral (1) 78:17morning (16) 1:3,4,16

2:11 3:20,21 6:257:3 15:13 30:764:11 117:21123:21 136:23151:23 205:8

motivate (4) 42:2347:25 192:23 193:5

motivating (4) 43:1048:4 193:2,3

motivation (5) 150:15150:16,18 182:10192:25

motive (1) 166:15



move (7) 4:2,4 16:5123:23 161:14,23188:25

moved (1) 18:4moving (3) 75:9,9

155:20MPT (1) 147:20multiplied (1) 11:3multiplier (1) 11:21mustn't (1) 95:6

N

nail (1) 167:14name (2) 73:16 134:22names (1) 163:1natural (2) 17:20 18:3nature (5) 20:4,16

25:7 165:19 174:9near (1) 94:18nearly (1) 65:20necessarily (6) 6:8

121:5 142:3 149:8149:9 178:11

necessary (3) 3:419:17 140:8

necessitated (4)121:22 122:12,17122:21

need (24) 1:8,21 4:5,77:3 10:11 32:16,2033:9 38:24 57:2162:24 75:18 87:3,5118:25 145:18181:2 192:25 193:2196:13 199:2,21202:21

needs (2) 57:16,16Neil (4) 18:8 38:4

93:22 94:6neither (2) 167:8

187:18net (4) 9:18 13:25

14:2 48:16netting (1) 12:16never (15) 15:25 54:5

69:12 76:19,2082:3 87:8 138:22151:6,20 157:13182:2,11,13 187:1

new (23) 41:9 42:5,742:17 44:11,1945:16 66:8 75:1377:8 147:12,14,15147:23 154:15,18154:18,20,23,23180:10 181:11194:19

NHI (1) 120:24NHS (2) 72:6,7night (1) 3:4Nimesh (8) 101:13,23

102:10 125:22,23126:13 128:16139:3

Nimesh's (1) 136:4nominated (1) 165:2nominee (1) 58:9non‐approved (3)

105:25 106:18119:16

non‐exhaustive (1)180:7

Nordics (1) 136:16normal (2) 9:14 131:2normally (6) 157:7

159:21 164:23203:25,25 204:3

note (8) 19:24 116:12121:19 194:19,25195:3,5 196:17

notes (26) 22:16 30:2031:13,16 45:2065:15 86:3 121:14131:25 140:13144:19 169:18,24170:1,11,13 171:7174:18,21,24,25175:10,16,17 176:3176:21

notice (9) 45:15127:20,23 128:2,4177:22,23 178:3,24

noting (1) 167:24Notwithstanding (1)

21:14November (2) 1:1

103:9NUGEE (86) 1:3,6,10

1:23,25 2:3,8,13,172:20 3:2,6,12,176:5,8,14,17 12:1814:8,11,13,18 15:133:16,21,23 34:5,834:13,16,19 35:435:14,16 36:18,2140:9 41:2 49:5,7,1174:24 83:20,2484:5,10 102:21103:1 134:2 146:2146:7,13,21 149:12149:14 155:20,23156:2 172:6,13173:4,21,23 174:12174:18,21 175:3,7175:12 198:3,7199:24 202:1,13203:17 204:7,10,15204:18,24 205:1,4205:7,9,11

number (15) 6:5 54:754:14 72:8 77:2077:21 79:5 141:11141:12 145:2146:11 149:10193:21 194:11195:17

numbers (1) 88:3numerous (1) 188:1

O

objection (2) 15:2152:14

objections (2) 152:20153:11

objective (1) 74:10objectives (1) 48:5obligation (1) 52:2obligations (3) 125:4

127:3,4observe (1) 127:3observer (2) 21:25

22:5obviously (22) 11:12

11:17 17:23 18:418:11 22:25 23:2340:19 42:25 64:564:18,25 71:1574:12 133:15136:12 137:12145:5 156:11168:19 170:25202:21

occasion (2) 105:24106:19

occasions (7) 15:1888:20 117:10153:12 169:2 188:1203:24

occurred (1) 4:18October (2) 96:24

103:14offence (2) 106:20

179:10offer (2) 141:10

142:25offered (1) 143:14offers (1) 188:2office (2) 10:10 21:24officers (3) 53:18

54:23 56:22Oh (1) 37:4okay (106) 10:25 18:4

18:17 19:8 20:1020:11,22 21:9,1222:15,19 23:11,2225:8 26:24 27:1428:17 29:23 31:631:12,16,19,2338:1 39:2 41:2443:1,9,16 45:6,2047:21 50:12 55:962:22 63:22 64:366:17,22 68:3,7,1169:7,19 71:10 72:372:23 73:12 74:975:12 76:23 79:581:11,15 82:883:18 92:25 96:2398:16 99:6,24102:19 108:21110:6 112:20114:16 116:2,12117:20 118:24122:15 123:21128:22 129:10130:16 131:5,19133:21,23 134:19135:6,15 136:9,15136:20 138:6139:10 140:18144:4,19 146:21153:4,7,16 157:16161:14 163:12168:8 176:8 179:21181:15 186:11189:10 191:1198:13 201:14

old (1) 42:17once (7) 4:5 36:10

69:13 79:8 80:385:15 142:14

ones (3) 30:19 74:18183:14

ongoing (3) 19:15 78:8201:3

onwards (8) 23:1349:12 110:6 139:22186:2 187:15188:12 189:1

OO (10) 41:10 80:2280:23,25 81:21,2282:11 125:13 126:3126:3

open (1) 6:22operates (1) 193:3operations (3) 16:14

70:6,10opinion (7) 43:4,6

46:17 48:12 106:5175:1 179:6

opportunity (7) 4:766:16 77:4 78:1181:16 187:5,12

opposed (1) 3:1opposition (1) 203:19opthalmic (2) 81:17

125:11Optical (8) 16:21,22

17:2,5 21:3,4,540:2

optician (6) 125:12,16125:20 126:12,25202:22

option (3) 82:18 83:1131:7

options (1) 131:6optometrist (1)

197:13oral (4) 2:13 3:1,9,15orally (2) 205:4,5order (12) 9:20 37:3

44:16 54:6,1158:15 105:23106:17 144:16148:22 149:11170:17

ordinary (1) 159:11organisation (2) 95:8

182:20organised (1) 163:22original (4) 25:25

104:19 137:11141:9

ought (1) 10:16outcome (13) 38:22

38:24 40:17 41:341:13,15,23 80:889:3 96:3 98:17101:16 102:5

outcomes (1) 40:11outside (1) 26:11outstanding (3) 40:21

100:6,25overall (3) 47:7 48:12

48:18oversee (1) 88:6overseeing (1) 39:3overseen (1) 163:14owed (1) 102:9Owen (1) 62:23owners (1) 69:4owns (3) 17:8 85:9,10O'Brien (5) 24:1,3

31:18 196:23,24o'clock (2) 102:20,21

P

PA (4) 62:7,14 63:15135:14

pack (16) 169:18,19169:22 170:19,21171:5,5 173:8,12174:15,18 175:8,9175:16 176:3180:25

package (1) 145:12page (107) 4:10,12,23

5:1,1,4,8,10 6:206:22,23 7:24,258:22 19:23 20:324:1 27:2,19 28:432:10 36:22 37:242:2 45:9,10 50:552:15,20 53:258:21 61:23 63:1164:4,6 66:18,2368:3,14 72:25 73:373:4,5,5,8,10,10,1573:18 75:12 77:1383:18,21 84:3,4,1685:12 90:6 94:2394:23 96:18 97:9100:2 101:9 103:10112:20 113:12114:1,24 122:15124:5,12 125:19126:8,9 131:20132:5,5 135:6141:14 144:24145:3,8 146:22

152:13 158:18161:24 168:8,9177:9 178:18,21,22178:23 180:24,24190:7,7 193:13194:8,18 196:1197:18,20 200:5,13200:22

pages (3) 4:10 170:12190:8

pagination (1) 4:10paid (18) 8:19 46:9

67:8 109:14 119:21122:24 136:4 138:3141:22 142:2 143:9145:18,22 146:15189:15 191:14,17197:15

paper (7) 6:3,6 121:12121:13 175:17179:18 205:5

papers (1) 7:9paperwork (10) 105:8

105:23 106:9,17119:13 120:16121:2,5 129:23168:21

paragraph (57) 4:416:6,8,17 19:921:12 49:12 66:1,468:19 97:5 103:24104:23 106:23110:6,11,22,23116:2 117:23118:24 119:1121:20 122:2,5124:4 128:23 129:2140:6 141:6 151:15152:13 160:14161:16 162:4167:18 169:21177:13 180:9181:17 184:5,18188:25 189:4,7,8,9190:15 191:3,16193:25,25 195:14195:17,18 196:15196:22

paragraphs (7) 49:13111:12 117:21156:4,14 188:12194:11

parked (1) 40:25parking (1) 62:25part (24) 4:2 7:16 18:7

20:24 21:16 42:1155:10 60:23 79:1279:17 96:20,21142:9 147:10148:11 151:6153:11 155:16162:15 164:12,24166:13 173:12193:2

particular (1) 79:2particularly (4) 24:19

93:24 114:9 159:15parties (2) 126:9,10partner (25) 37:23,25

38:1 40:20 66:1366:15 67:25 78:682:16 86:6 141:21154:19 155:13158:15 161:7 185:6185:13,16,17187:14 193:8203:18,20 204:1,3

partners (26) 37:1238:13,22 63:469:15 73:25 74:4

74:10,12 78:10,1782:16,24 83:1,5,6,988:23 131:4 148:21157:6 164:22 199:4202:17,19 203:4

partnership (8) 41:1074:10 86:17 149:21150:15 187:4 188:1202:10

partnerships (3) 74:14164:22 203:6

parts (2) 72:22 188:8party (1) 79:22pass (4) 32:6 110:2

127:9 202:23passed (4) 7:16 103:6

107:11 158:18Patel (36) 5:19 11:12

12:5 22:25 38:1039:17 40:6 67:1,1383:9 92:16 104:18104:19 106:14,15122:20,22 123:16124:8,14 125:22126:13,15 127:22127:25 128:7,16139:3 140:20 142:2146:4 151:3 187:19188:13 189:12,20

Patel's (25) 4:16 5:179:3 11:17,25 13:1715:19 23:6 40:2557:5 66:18,2467:10 93:8 97:3,797:13 122:17145:23 146:3,16195:11,21 197:23198:12

Patrice (3) 24:1,3196:23

Pause (10) 5:2,4,8,1133:25 68:8 99:5111:14 118:19160:12

pay (37) 52:6 53:1954:24 55:1 60:21107:22 109:20120:24,24 122:25144:5,11,13 149:17149:20 150:12157:7,9,13,25158:4,7,9,16159:18,21 160:22161:12 177:22,22178:2 190:11,15,20191:11 197:12202:8

payable (6) 48:18 67:8145:17 197:23198:12 199:4

paying (8) 46:13 56:10104:19 119:9123:14 144:14157:21 192:22

payment (10) 50:1750:19 52:6 66:2567:12 145:22 146:9146:15 188:13,14

payments (8) 25:1166:24 98:4 123:24156:6,6 188:12200:22

payout (1) 47:3PA's (1) 101:9penultimate (1) 27:20people (43) 3:2 17:22

29:3 34:13,20,2140:24 48:1 49:2258:19 60:3 61:1261:16,19 74:2,18

75:6,24 105:14107:19,23 112:11117:9,11 119:24120:21 121:10127:6,8 132:1137:12 165:20166:23 176:14180:5 182:8,20,22184:2 187:11,23193:4 197:12

people's (1) 117:2percentage (2) 11:10

47:7perform (2) 43:2

127:3performance (21)

48:25 75:1 82:1193:14 94:8 136:6142:7 147:22156:20 157:2,17158:2,10 159:14160:2,22,25 161:1191:13,21 192:24

performing (2) 140:21182:13

period (20) 10:18,1914:3 26:2,4 54:1365:11 69:12 90:5108:6,8 131:14158:9 159:5,10163:10 190:22191:4,6 198:20

periodic (1) 201:10periods (1) 201:19Perkins (5) 73:15 99:9

103:10 135:15163:3

Perkins's (1) 135:14permission (1) 119:20person (29) 17:19,20

18:2,3 21:24 31:2556:15 70:3 72:1575:15 93:2 116:21124:17,20 125:10126:20,21 127:2,17127:18 128:8137:14 140:11155:14 163:20165:17 166:24199:9 203:8

personal (6) 24:10,1267:11 178:6,7194:5

personally (31) 2:2332:8 69:8,25 76:1799:1 110:8,20117:14 133:9139:21 144:5 152:9162:15,19 163:9164:17 183:7184:12 188:16,21188:22 189:5,22190:3 194:15,17,24195:4 196:6,25

perspective (1) 88:7phase (2) 101:17

102:6phoned (1) 5:19Physical (1) 72:10physically (1) 176:14pick (4) 16:7 28:4 90:7

178:16picked (1) 14:1picking (1) 170:15piece (3) 134:23

179:18 205:5pieces (1) 175:17pinpoint (1) 132:15PL (1) 10:15place (10) 20:24 59:20



94:11 100:11,24102:1 105:8 119:13132:24,25

plainly (1) 65:5plan (31) 4:13,14 5:16

7:5 15:14,19 39:2572:18 79:13 94:1094:15,16,17 95:1495:19,25 96:14105:3 132:19,23133:7,8,10,12,14134:18 135:3 151:3151:5 152:6 154:22

planned (1) 80:18plans (3) 77:6 98:22

99:14play (5) 60:23 66:19

66:25 142:9 162:15please (8) 28:18 30:11

50:17 59:3 88:9103:8 113:14 200:5

pleased (1) 40:4plus (4) 107:16 138:16

143:16,20pm (5) 102:23,25

155:24 156:1205:12

point (64) 4:6 18:1,2122:22 24:22 26:629:20,25 30:1 32:242:10 44:4 51:554:20 55:4,7 64:2165:13 66:3 75:1484:1 91:14,1892:23 94:17,1895:11 96:12,15104:24 109:9 118:1125:25,25 127:13130:13 131:1,5,17138:6 139:22,25141:9 143:3,4145:5 146:1,19149:11 150:22151:24 157:5162:18 163:2173:15 174:9181:13,21,22186:17 187:21190:21 191:3199:11

points (9) 124:2167:19 168:2170:15,18 175:22177:6 183:10193:13

policies (1) 167:1policy (2) 73:4,8Polish (3) 104:11

105:11 120:8pond (2) 61:15,17poor (1) 160:19portfolio (2) 37:8

134:24position (19) 26:18

29:19 38:9,1740:13 91:15,1692:1 94:4,22 96:17129:13 139:5 196:8200:9,13 201:7,20201:22

positive (2) 78:1881:17

possibilities (1) 41:12possibility (2) 40:16

41:10possible (5) 40:11 41:3

99:17 177:20179:23

possibly (3) 63:1782:19 120:3

potential (3) 82:10137:13 145:16

potentially (5) 90:3119:10 120:24150:13 155:15

Potts (36) 1:12 2:4,92:14,19,25 3:5,113:16 36:16,20171:12,17,23 172:1172:9,14,25 173:2173:15,22 174:8197:25 198:5199:24,25 200:2,3204:13,20,25 205:2205:5,8,10 206:4

pounds (1) 48:17power (5) 46:7 52:19

55:10,15 56:23powers (9) 25:5 34:9

34:20 35:2 36:1152:21,24 53:7,11

practice (3) 11:1 74:21131:2

pray (1) 124:5precisely (1) 136:18preferred (2) 82:18

83:1prejudging (1) 19:15preparation (1) 66:8prepared (3) 7:12,23

15:11preparing (1) 2:9present (2) 21:1 86:22presumably (5) 65:10

73:24 103:17135:22 162:18

presume (3) 31:1362:23 84:12

presuming (1) 80:8presumption (1) 84:12presumptuous (1)

79:10pretty (1) 159:16Prevention (20) 19:12

60:4 72:3,22 78:879:9 80:4,9 85:1686:7,19 90:1895:12,16 98:4107:2,3 109:3,5183:21

previous (10) 43:2147:4 48:19 56:2482:11 159:7,13195:1 198:16202:21

previously (3) 68:2275:20 192:14

price (6) 4:16,17 41:756:20 136:9 138:8

primary (1) 203:3principle (2) 110:23

148:23prior (3) 83:10 154:13

203:16private (1) 154:7privilege (3) 36:16

171:12 172:21privileged (1) 174:1probably (8) 5:13 29:6

121:15 147:18161:8 169:16,16203:15

problem (1) 32:11problems (1) 98:7procedure (1) 79:16procedures (2) 104:10

187:25proceedings (1)

173:18process (42) 16:9

17:12,18,21,2518:7,19 19:2221:15 22:9 26:7,830:2,3 38:24 45:2150:2 67:9,10 93:1,393:18 96:1,4 127:9127:10,20 128:24129:5 130:4 135:24167:2 173:12174:22 176:17,22182:3 186:1,3,4,23187:1

produce (3) 13:2459:11 202:6

produced (6) 17:2327:15 175:19201:11,11,12

product (1) 172:15production (2) 172:12

172:18Professional (1) 80:19profit (16) 9:8,18

10:15 12:11 13:913:18 40:7 149:4,6149:25 158:22159:10,11 160:17198:16 202:6

profitability (7) 25:1888:6 148:20 149:20159:19 192:22202:9

profitable (2) 148:19152:11

profits (33) 8:16,18,2410:6 11:2,2 13:3,1013:10,14,16 56:2486:15 97:18,2298:1,2,3,10 139:1,7139:9,10 145:19149:1,18 150:9159:17 160:20192:15 193:1198:20 199:9

promise (4) 78:6,9,1778:21

proper (2) 120:16130:21

properly (3) 39:12,14172:21

proposal (4) 27:1729:12 32:6 59:25

proposals (4) 2:4,632:4,17

propose (2) 136:4138:3

proposed (3) 1:6,759:13

proposing (1) 137:9prospective (1) 86:6protect (1) 98:10protecting (1) 58:12protracted (1) 99:13proven (2) 104:22

123:8provide (8) 54:11 57:7

61:14 75:10,2598:8 109:25 120:22

provided (6) 31:1759:24 98:6 110:12168:21 169:22

provides (1) 16:23providing (11) 59:5

61:7 70:24 71:375:23 92:11 107:23117:5,10 120:10,10

provision (1) 146:11provisions (1) 128:5psychometric (1)

202:24punch (1) 73:18

purchase (5) 93:19127:20,22 128:2,4

purchased (1) 57:5purchaser (3) 8:17

11:7 151:21purchaser's (1) 13:3purchasing (2) 126:21

154:14purely (2) 72:20 100:9purpose (1) 8:18purposes (3) 16:20

35:4 99:2Pursuant (1) 124:7pursue (1) 23:24put (52) 1:11,13 2:6

3:7 6:9,10,19 29:740:4 41:25 49:356:9,19 58:11,1460:8 62:4 64:1866:10 83:9 84:190:6 101:12 102:4103:4,5 106:10107:7 111:10 116:6120:6 121:11,13132:3,22,23,25140:19 152:2,4,22153:16 159:20161:15 166:7 176:5177:13 178:10180:2 185:11188:19 190:24

putting (6) 100:22108:25 131:11146:8 185:3,11

p/e (2) 136:5 138:10P11D (1) 195:14P12 (1) 10:20

Q

qualified (1) 127:8quarter (1) 156:8querying (1) 113:15question (36) 25:25

26:16 30:1 45:1847:19 59:17 71:1976:10 83:3 88:299:20 100:22116:24 125:15,16126:24 137:11138:24 139:13146:14 164:19165:1,4 175:7189:22 190:2,3,14191:2 194:4,14,23197:17 199:25202:2,20

questionable (1) 82:11questioned (2) 20:5

20:17questions (11) 15:2

117:19 144:14154:4 155:17 174:3174:13 199:23201:24,25 206:5

queue (1) 61:19quicker (1) 160:13quickly (1) 188:3quite (20) 2:18 3:9

40:19 62:9,11,1374:16 91:7 96:21105:15,23 106:15119:9 146:13168:25 174:8176:18 182:23184:21 196:7

R

Raines (42) 16:10,1216:22 17:13,16,2418:1,7 22:13,13

41:6 50:2 62:2163:15,18 64:2269:25 70:2,3 96:2,3102:12 105:4 106:4109:19 117:1 129:7129:8,19 130:1,8130:10 131:3,13,20132:14 133:24137:11 140:17141:8 163:5 166:7

Raines's (8) 17:13 22:962:7,13,14 103:14106:7 131:24

raised (4) 19:5 92:18153:15 179:14

raises (2) 154:4179:13

raising (4) 48:3 152:14154:3 170:18

range (1) 10:25rate (30) 59:7 60:2,19

61:6,6,9,10 71:1971:20,22 72:3,2072:21 87:1,2,20,2287:23,24 88:191:11 108:13 109:6115:8 141:25 142:2142:3,3 197:13,16

rates (2) 53:19 54:24ratified (1) 191:14ratify (1) 26:22ratifying (1) 26:18rationale (2) 59:24

72:20RDC (1) 133:19reach (1) 156:3reached (2) 93:18

169:2reaching (3) 45:21

167:25 169:25read (19) 2:12 4:22

37:2 68:7,9,1091:19,20 99:4111:12,15 115:20115:25 117:17118:19 160:11164:3,3,5

reading (4) 89:5153:17 160:6190:25

reads (2) 8:13 92:20real (2) 138:9 186:20realising (1) 67:18reality (1) 82:4really (19) 38:20 48:8

48:15 75:2,2,2,290:13 118:24148:21 163:12166:3,15,16,20187:12,12 192:10196:10

realm (2) 38:15,16reason (14) 23:14

71:17,17 91:1,8,991:10 129:12138:12 139:2140:23 142:11163:9 191:17

reasonable (3) 32:479:6 179:6

reasonably (2) 2:17199:5

reasons (5) 54:7 72:1990:17 177:20179:23

rebuttal (1) 177:5recall (12) 5:13 6:21

7:1 68:5 69:1 95:22132:14 133:23140:25 152:17

166:13 167:11receipt (1) 19:14receive (1) 172:3received (7) 32:2

117:18 150:2,5157:9 174:15 175:9

reckoning (1) 148:4recognise (9) 10:20,23

14:8 77:13,14,16145:3,4 181:25

recollect (3) 69:11,20102:7

recollection (9) 21:7,822:4 23:9 76:983:17 95:24 168:1168:7

recommend (1) 81:22record (2) 3:8 16:25recorded (2) 99:25

184:9recording (1) 96:11records (1) 44:17recover (2) 91:13,13recovered (1) 47:9recruitment (3) 37:23

37:25 38:2rectify (1) 26:17red (2) 74:19,24reduce (1) 89:11reducing (3) 86:9,12

86:20ref (1) 113:14refer (5) 155:1 156:7

156:11 189:4,11reference (11) 7:25

27:10 44:4 52:1352:17 93:5,12133:15 135:4 140:1182:1

referring (5) 65:5141:19 153:6173:25 184:9

refers (1) 65:25reflect (1) 99:15refunding (1) 122:20refused (1) 187:5regard (4) 112:18

115:11 136:19153:13

regarding (8) 19:2565:11 78:9 84:2098:22 121:23122:13 155:5

regards (2) 101:10102:9

region (3) 69:17136:24 141:22

regional (3) 69:14 76:1133:19

regions (1) 75:25registered (2) 34:16

125:10regulations (2) 104:6

106:11Rehman (5) 1:9,14

104:20 119:9123:10

relate (1) 115:14related (3) 104:4

106:8,11relating (9) 45:6 49:25

104:4 110:7 115:12144:20 152:16171:25 179:11

relation (33) 2:4 13:1327:8 49:24 66:2466:25 67:1,1368:21 70:7 74:7104:10 105:23106:17 109:1

111:10 116:22139:22 145:13,23146:15 172:11,17172:20,21 174:10174:19 175:21200:22,25 201:2,20204:21

relationship (1)185:23

relative (1) 29:23relatively (1) 81:20released (1) 204:13relevant (2) 154:12

155:18relied (1) 171:13rely (1) 124:2relying (1) 127:14remain (1) 196:8remaining (1) 21:16remains (1) 12:11remember (54) 4:10

4:20 6:22 18:2319:1,3,4,4 22:1425:14 27:6 30:2041:19 42:3,5 45:845:10,17 49:17,1849:19 74:22 75:1486:1 103:14 104:3110:13 112:25118:2 123:3 125:19134:22 136:22137:4 138:17142:11,11,12153:14 156:9164:20 167:3180:21 189:20193:6,6,6,22194:21,22 195:11195:12 196:3202:11

remembering (1)178:8

remind (1) 102:21remove (4) 181:18,23

182:14 185:5removed (3) 152:9

184:19 185:1removing (1) 184:3remuneration (4) 9:10

9:11 193:8 200:10repayable (1) 14:3repayment (1) 12:17repeat (5) 25:25 29:11

65:4 83:3 116:24replace (1) 124:8replacing (2) 46:25

125:11replies (1) 37:18reply (1) 32:10report (9) 16:12 17:23

19:14 79:25 82:7164:5,7 168:22,23

reported (1) 182:16reporting (3) 65:21

76:3 135:16reports (9) 79:24 80:1

80:1 81:12,13164:5 183:24 201:5201:19

representing (1) 33:7represents (2) 172:14

172:15request (5) 66:6 111:3

111:25 159:19200:10

requested (2) 30:4110:11

requesting (1) 111:20require (2) 114:18

115:1



required (5) 61:1366:8 111:5 119:4151:21

requires (2) 26:9148:21

rescue (1) 57:4reserves (1) 198:21resident (2) 78:6,16resolution (1) 111:23resolved (4) 39:12,14

39:15 40:22respect (5) 21:22 35:6

51:15 74:2 172:18respectively (1) 63:1respond (2) 94:6 101:7responded (3) 99:21

101:8 193:19respondent's (1) 6:15responding (2) 93:21

94:1response (5) 21:12

63:11 113:14188:20 195:1

responses (1) 154:3responsibility (2) 46:8

52:5responsible (8) 69:5

70:3,10 125:23,24146:18 164:22182:22

rest (2) 75:8 146:22result (5) 40:17 106:1

111:25 167:12176:11

resulted (2) 97:3,13results (1) 19:15retail (14) 16:14 48:13

70:10,12 75:22109:18 140:9,15,22142:1 156:20163:24 164:21180:1

retailer (5) 125:17126:2,3,4 202:23

retailer‐type (1)125:22

retailing (3) 125:24140:8 164:1

retained (1) 198:21retrospective (1)

158:16returned (3) 46:3,4

141:11Revenue (2) 120:2

195:13reverse (2) 9:19 37:3review (12) 28:11

31:21 32:6 45:1072:10,12 75:13,1976:5,16 110:14113:20

reviewed (2) 114:7174:25

reviews (2) 26:24 32:1revised (3) 1:6,7 2:6rewarded (2) 191:19

192:4rewarding (3) 161:10

192:11,20Re‐examination (2)

200:2 206:4re‐open (1) 164:10re‐reading (1) 196:22rid (5) 40:2 105:3

161:22,23 182:4ridden (1) 57:4right (123) 7:11,21

8:22 10:16,1913:18 16:5,1617:10,19 18:20

22:7,10,17 24:1426:8 29:13,15 34:134:23 36:22 39:2141:20 49:3 55:1157:24 58:7,11,2159:4 66:14 67:370:5 73:1 74:1676:3 77:13,16 78:483:22 86:23 87:187:15 88:16 90:691:7 92:16 96:1796:21 97:11,2198:11 100:17 103:8104:23 105:7,8106:15,22 107:12107:15 108:1109:15 112:4 114:9116:2 117:13,20118:20 120:21121:20 122:18124:23 125:3,6127:5,7 130:14,23131:6 132:22 134:1135:10,19 136:7138:21 139:14,21140:20 141:5142:20 147:8148:13 151:14,23152:7,25 157:9158:3 161:14 163:5163:6 167:16 171:9173:19 175:12180:9,24 181:21188:3,23 190:24193:10 194:8,18195:4,10 196:13197:15 198:2,22199:21 203:8

rightly (1) 161:15rights (1) 25:16right‐hand (1) 6:12rip (2) 73:23,25rise (9) 157:13,25

158:4,9,16 159:18190:11,20 191:11

rises (6) 157:7,9190:15 191:8192:19 197:12

role (10) 55:10 66:1966:25 70:7,13133:21 140:9,22156:17 159:25

roll (1) 134:23rolling (1) 31:25room/food (1) 62:24rough (1) 149:17roughly (1) 170:12round (2) 149:9,17Rowe (3) 109:19 117:1

163:2rules (1) 191:4rumour (1) 37:12run (7) 57:7 58:20

100:1 118:9 152:10161:7 170:11

running (8) 29:1957:12 72:1 89:1798:14 115:13149:22 161:11

rushed (1) 99:19Ryan (37) 5:20 8:2

10:9 14:19,24 37:537:8,18 38:3,19,2339:10 128:25 129:6129:16 130:9 131:2131:13 135:16,17136:22 137:1,9,11137:14,25 138:6139:17 140:17141:3 142:11,13

143:24 144:8 155:2166:7 182:23

Ryan's (2) 4:17 155:4

S

S (1) 113:14sacked (1) 168:24safe (1) 204:16safety (2) 105:14,19sake (1) 16:25salaries (18) 27:1,5,8

30:16,23 31:2053:19 54:24 109:21109:22 110:3116:17,20 117:5,7149:13,14 197:3

salary (51) 9:14,1526:24 28:2,10,1129:4,17 32:1,2342:4,11 45:10 60:575:13,18 76:5,16123:21 141:6,7142:15,18,20,21,23143:1,2,6,7,8,12,13143:20,22 144:2,20145:10 147:7 150:3150:5,22 156:5,11156:25 157:21191:8 192:19196:16 197:15200:10

sale (12) 11:16,17,2512:1 38:14,20 41:983:10 136:9,19145:1 204:6

sales (6) 9:8 11:1043:11,12,17,20

sample (1) 115:12sanctions (1) 103:13satisfied (1) 20:23Saturday (3) 47:23,23

90:11Saturdays (1) 43:23save (1) 185:21Savill (3) 109:19 134:2

134:3saw (4) 19:3 76:20

166:14 182:11saying (41) 21:3 31:3

35:13 38:3,23 44:448:6 55:22 68:970:20 72:14 87:1887:20 88:16 91:2592:9 94:1 97:2199:22 101:7 105:25106:16,19 109:22109:23,23 120:4130:20 140:11,14141:3 165:19,20175:19 178:6181:10,25 182:1,18187:20 192:1

says (60) 8:9,23 10:1210:15,18 11:912:19 13:2 20:1221:13 26:25 28:1730:10,14 32:3 34:334:8 52:9 54:2260:16 61:17 62:1763:11 66:5 68:2073:16,22 84:1786:5 88:4,7 89:1290:11 91:20 95:397:2 99:12 100:25101:4 114:17 118:5122:7 124:12 126:9130:12 134:10,14135:19 140:1145:14 147:11,19160:24,24,25

179:21 183:17186:8 189:13,15

scenario (2) 48:11153:22

scheme (14) 43:1544:10,11,19 45:4,645:16 46:3,18,2546:25 47:10 48:1549:1

scope (3) 80:5 85:17177:19

score (5) 78:13,1879:7 80:17 81:15

scoring (2) 78:21 79:1screw (2) 63:2,6scrubbed (1) 135:21Sean (5) 49:23 88:9

117:12 193:14,24searched (1) 59:18second (14) 8:1 66:1,4

85:8 90:21 91:2196:25 97:5,9132:18 134:22156:7 158:15188:10

secretary (1) 169:15section (1) 55:14securing (1) 80:22security (3) 72:10

194:8,12see (177) 2:4 6:12 7:6

7:10,14,18,21 8:98:11,15,20 9:5,169:19 10:2,6 11:2312:5,13 13:5,6,1213:22 14:4 15:916:10 19:9,20 20:120:7 21:19 22:124:4 27:2,20,2328:2,7,13,20 29:2231:22 32:8,1835:18 36:22 37:1638:7 42:1,16 44:1745:9,13,15 49:450:8,14,21 51:152:14,25 53:1,1261:23 62:3 64:6,966:1,11 67:1769:21 73:3,5,8,1373:17,20 75:1776:6 78:14,24 80:681:24 82:13 84:2185:1,2,7,18 86:1088:4,5,12,24 90:992:23 94:25 95:2297:1,8,19 98:16,1998:24 100:12,12101:14 102:20103:9,11 105:13110:23 111:8112:21 113:8,12,17113:22 114:24115:3 116:1,18118:4,14 119:1,9122:4 123:25 124:4124:11 126:9,21127:21 128:25129:23 131:19132:3,12 133:1134:10 135:9137:17 145:8,20146:23 147:4153:16,21 158:23158:25 159:5160:15 161:18163:1 171:21 174:7177:11 178:21,23179:2 185:11 187:6189:1,11,25 190:9190:11,24 191:13

191:24 194:1,9195:18 197:21,22198:17 200:14

seeing (2) 75:24 88:25seek (1) 124:2seeking (4) 38:5 76:5

89:9 198:2seeks (1) 61:20seen (23) 1:5 15:25

37:13 44:8 64:1569:14 76:20 77:1878:22,24,25 79:479:22 81:9 82:287:9 98:5 119:21154:25 160:19181:21 183:8190:18

select (1) 202:19selecting (1) 131:4selection (8) 18:19

128:24 129:5 130:4130:9 131:15137:13 140:17

self‐funding (4) 43:1443:15 47:1 48:10

sell (6) 40:5 77:8136:5 137:7,16138:3

seller (5) 145:13150:18,21,24199:17

selling (4) 11:8 38:1039:8 135:25

sells (1) 147:2send (4) 25:4 71:18

113:7 134:11sending (3) 24:10

32:11 134:18senior (3) 18:2 21:24

22:5sense (2) 14:14 130:8sensible (1) 2:17Sensitive (1) 63:24sent (10) 23:24 30:6

114:5,12 117:15140:14 157:14158:4 180:23 201:6

sentence (5) 27:21118:4 119:2 122:7140:6

sentiments (1) 32:16separate (1) 111:17September (17) 9:7,7

9:8 98:18 159:1,3,6159:10 160:16,17160:18 198:19200:9,14,18 201:16201:21

sequence (1) 5:16serious (12) 24:25

25:6,19 41:2264:18,19 105:15121:22 122:3,12,22179:7

seriously (5) 20:5,17105:22,25 106:19

serve (2) 127:22 128:2service (12) 72:4

111:2,3 142:8149:23 177:10178:14,15,16,21179:16,17

services (7) 16:2319:11 59:5 60:1861:7 108:14 109:6

set (15) 5:20 41:9 49:187:22 91:9 106:24110:6 152:20 156:8176:14,16 177:4181:6 190:17

203:15sets (2) 41:9 77:8setting (1) 141:7seven (2) 54:17

152:24severance (6) 145:12

197:22 198:12,24199:3,6

share (19) 12:1 13:1646:7 90:21 91:2192:2 94:5 97:2298:10 100:11,15,24101:5 102:1,2136:19 138:8 145:1147:2

shared (33) 37:7,838:2 40:5 77:9,2377:25 78:1 80:2081:11,16 83:1484:14,24 85:3,5,2186:22 88:7,19,2096:9,17 97:15152:2,11 182:5,15182:24,24 183:2,4183:15

shareholder (39) 23:523:7,10 24:24 25:325:8,9,16 34:635:10 46:16 51:2151:21,23 52:2,3,1552:18 58:13,1486:9,13,13,15,2186:23 89:24 97:2298:9 111:20 112:1112:2,7 128:20150:10 158:6189:16 193:1 199:7

shareholders (19)25:12 26:8 33:1433:15,16,23,2434:3,5,19 46:11,1252:5,9,13 124:3,7147:12 192:16

shareholders/A (1)23:8

shareholder's (1)179:20

shareholder/directo...111:4

shareholder/directo...118:12

shareholder/the (1)48:22

shareholding (14) 9:311:11 13:4,17 25:225:6 39:13 79:688:7,22 145:6149:16,18 192:17

shares (95) 4:16 5:175:17,21 11:5,10,1311:16,17,18,21,2512:4,7 14:23 15:1915:20 23:6 33:1933:20 34:17 38:638:11,14,20 40:3,640:14,23,25 41:7,957:5 77:8 79:8 80:380:10 83:9 85:1085:10,15,23 92:793:7,8,9,9,9,12,2094:12,14,18 95:1295:15 96:13 97:497:14,17,18 124:16127:16,25 128:8,14128:15,18 135:24135:25 136:4,21137:7,10,15,24139:16,17,17,24147:2,7 148:14,15148:16 150:12,17

150:21 151:3,20,25154:14 181:24183:16 202:4 204:3

sharing (1) 161:7sheet (4) 6:3 115:2

178:22 201:15Sheila (1) 196:24short (6) 49:9 81:19

102:24 155:25188:4 199:25

shorter (1) 54:13shortly (1) 96:10show (4) 13:21 21:22

96:6 201:7showed (6) 78:22

118:2 151:23154:25 155:8200:13

showing (5) 22:1590:14 142:12170:20 183:14

shown (10) 15:18124:4 152:21156:16 157:1159:24 197:18200:16,21 201:14

shows (2) 84:8 201:8shredded (1) 121:15shredding (1) 121:17sic (2) 108:4,5side (4) 64:15 84:6

146:9,24sight (1) 184:7sign (5) 101:10 154:18

154:23,23 204:2signatory (1) 21:2signature (2) 73:16

162:2signed (4) 73:15 87:24

147:16 176:8significant (1) 40:7significantly (2) 12:2

158:13silly (1) 1:12similar (6) 142:15,20

143:9,12 144:3190:23

Similarly (1) 108:21Simon (1) 134:21simplification (1)

185:4simply (8) 43:24 44:20

48:5 53:16 125:6138:25 178:4181:10

Singh (48) 123:24128:24 129:6,22130:5,20 131:7,12135:23 136:20137:7,16 138:9139:23 140:7141:10 142:17144:25 145:7,9147:16 148:11152:14 153:11154:1,13 156:16158:4,8 159:24162:10,18 166:2,10166:11,12 185:24188:9,25 189:16190:18 191:17192:11 193:7196:19 202:3,15203:21

Singh's (4) 141:6156:5 191:5 200:8

single (3) 65:23 82:11121:9

single‐handedly (1)161:3



sit (2) 65:19 140:25sitting (3) 12:23 72:15

168:1situation (8) 19:10

40:18 79:9 80:4,980:15 85:16 97:16

situations (3) 178:1,3178:5

six (10) 10:5 43:22,2443:25 53:23,2454:5 138:22 152:24161:8

sixth (2) 47:22,24size (1) 67:7skills (5) 61:13 127:11

140:8,15 203:9skip (3) 80:18 110:22

123:22Skipping (1) 155:19Slark (22) 27:4,7,15,19

28:6,22 32:1,2342:3,24 49:2255:23 56:20 58:961:11,12,17 70:1475:14 107:17117:12 197:5

slides (1) 76:2slightly (3) 2:6 25:24

198:7slot (2) 1:21,22slotted (1) 1:25small (1) 61:16snap (1) 144:17snip (5) 148:15,15

149:19 150:13,21SOG (62) 16:20 17:1,9

19:22 21:18 24:7,824:23 34:25 35:936:1 40:7 46:8 58:759:1,9 61:20 75:2476:24 77:5 79:686:9,20 94:11,1795:11 96:13 97:497:14,17 98:2199:1 111:4 112:7114:18 115:1 116:3116:8,9,10 118:12123:12 147:2150:19,24 151:10151:20 158:5162:21,24 165:10165:24 166:23167:1,13 181:18184:19,23 185:1,5185:14,24

SOG's (5) 38:9 124:9163:24 167:20172:4

SOG/you (1) 51:7sold (2) 137:19 145:6sole (6) 190:19,23

191:5,6,9 192:8solicitor (1) 96:23somebody (13) 9:1

11:8 55:1 57:8,1781:11 107:11 120:6120:15 123:14126:1 137:1 186:20

soon (1) 193:7sorry (36) 18:25 29:11

30:21 37:4 43:552:17 55:4 58:2365:4 66:3 72:2476:8 97:10 114:20115:20 122:4,15127:24 129:4 146:2162:3 165:4 173:15180:18,25 181:1184:24 189:6 190:2191:2 193:15,16

197:25 198:5,9200:16

sort (16) 2:25 9:1832:20 61:15 69:274:25 77:9 89:5120:17 144:25147:6,25 170:1175:21 188:20193:18

sorts (1) 105:7SOS (18) 16:14,20,21

17:4,8 70:11 80:580:11 85:17 107:8107:10,16,19,19,24108:5,8 109:8

sought (1) 197:7sound (1) 144:4sounded (1) 48:14sounds (2) 136:18

163:6South (1) 80:20speak (7) 24:13,15

63:3,7 67:20,23102:22

speaking (4) 7:8 39:1864:5 132:14

specialised (1) 19:11specific (3) 140:15

179:14 194:5specifically (4) 77:15

141:4 179:13191:10

Specsavers (46) 6:157:17 8:10,23 16:2116:22 17:2,5 19:1221:3,4,5 28:23 29:129:8 34:15,17,2435:1,2,10,23 36:940:2 42:22 48:1385:9 89:22 97:16105:10 111:23124:21,23 125:20126:11 127:2,18128:9 132:4 134:24148:23 152:16154:5 158:23 192:3193:3

spend (1) 204:2spends (2) 192:6

204:4spent (2) 2:9 168:20split (2) 82:12 150:9spoke (3) 26:25 33:4

69:13spoken (3) 69:10,18

135:23spring (1) 21:11staff (34) 23:25 24:16

27:1 28:10 42:4,2343:10 44:24 46:1947:6,13,14,17 48:348:7,18 53:1954:23 55:5 56:2274:6 75:19 76:6104:9,14 105:24110:2 116:17,20,22117:7 137:2 196:19197:3

stage (19) 6:8 21:1523:23 41:4,11,1541:21 62:4 94:1196:18 127:9 130:16130:17,19 136:10175:3,4 176:25202:23

stages (1) 167:2standard (1) 156:24standards (1) 203:16start (9) 4:12 16:8

39:22 50:4 54:11

94:7 135:24 165:23178:17

started (8) 31:2555:13 64:22 175:1175:10 176:7186:23 196:10

starting (1) 97:6starts (5) 12:10 73:5

100:2 103:9 198:15statement (40) 3:22

4:3 16:7 22:8 23:1327:11 49:14 59:699:18 103:21,24104:24 106:22117:24 123:23128:22 129:2 140:3151:14,16,17152:19 156:4,7160:24 161:16162:4,9 163:8169:19 188:10,19188:20 190:8193:12,18,22195:15 196:15205:1

statements (3) 181:16188:4 192:14

step (6) 18:10,1229:12 33:1 51:3162:19

stepped (1) 129:12steps (2) 26:6 99:16Steve (2) 7:23 8:1stone (1) 49:1stop (2) 93:14 94:7stopped (3) 39:16

48:24 118:23store (173) 4:15 5:18

22:20 23:14 25:2129:19 37:13 39:2140:4,13,18 41:442:22,24 43:2 44:144:17 46:12 48:2349:18 50:24 51:451:13,19 52:1,6,654:16 57:1,8,9,1257:14,17 58:4,6,858:11,13,20 60:360:20 63:16 65:2066:7,8,14 67:1568:2 69:12,22,2370:9,11,19 71:472:4,7,14,15,1973:8 76:14,25 77:677:10,20 78:10,1879:2 82:9,10,15,1682:17 83:5,6,784:24 85:3,21 86:886:20 87:3,12,1388:10,16 89:1,4,889:11,20 90:2291:2,16,22,25 92:192:5 93:14 94:4,896:7,8 98:7,14,15100:23 107:12,23108:5,9 109:7110:3 111:4,6,7112:1,4,13,14113:15 114:17,18114:18,22 115:1,1115:8,15,18,24116:3,5,8,9 118:10118:11 129:14,17130:15,23 136:3140:21,23 142:16142:22 143:5148:18,19 152:6,17152:23 154:13155:11,12 158:14158:15 159:19

160:9 161:2,7,11161:12 184:3187:17 191:22192:7,15,22 193:8204:4

stores (25) 16:24 61:861:21,25 65:2068:23 70:3 75:2,3,475:6 76:2 80:2181:18 88:1,3,5,1888:20 93:23 126:3134:24 152:8164:22 201:6

store's (1) 73:4story (1) 16:8straight (2) 43:24

136:13strategically (1) 88:19stray (1) 36:16stream (1) 90:17string (1) 68:14stripping (1) 139:10structure (18) 42:5,7

42:14,17,18,18,2043:2,10 44:5 47:447:20 65:21 78:998:22 99:15 125:20146:6

structured (2) 93:23175:21

structures (2) 42:2199:17

Stuart (95) 1:3,4,7,111:24 2:2 3:17,19,206:7,10,15,18 8:2112:18,22 14:1915:1,6 21:11 22:2125:24 33:18,2234:4,6,12,14,18,2335:13,15,17 36:2239:19 40:10 41:344:3 45:19 47:8,2549:6,11,12 52:1757:25 75:12 83:383:22,25 84:9,1187:18 91:24 103:1103:2 111:15 130:2134:4 146:22 148:6149:16 155:20,22156:2,3 161:22,24171:14,19,24 172:6172:23 173:1,2,3,4173:5,19 174:2,5174:15 175:13,14181:25 186:22188:7 191:2 198:2198:3,6,9 202:3204:9 206:3

stuff (1) 65:22subclauses (1) 178:17subject (10) 2:5 25:13

50:12 63:24 84:1890:2 93:3 112:23124:9 125:3

submissions (3) 2:102:13,21

submitted (1) 115:14subordinates (1) 166:6subsequent (1) 171:21subsidiary (8) 17:10

29:2 34:11,21 35:352:23 53:10 111:24

substantial (4) 48:1749:16 122:9 160:22

substitute (1) 1:19successful (7) 74:11

74:15 75:11 93:24140:21,22 203:7

successfully (1) 191:21suddenly (1) 187:15

suffered (1) 181:7sufficient (3) 80:5

85:17 153:20suggest (19) 15:7,16

15:21 39:25 56:1880:13 83:13,1587:10 94:10 96:5129:21,24 130:7131:11 150:16151:22 168:8 198:3

suggested (3) 5:2332:24 42:3

suggesting (19) 4:1411:15 25:1 35:1684:13 87:15 92:992:10 105:1,22112:16,17 120:3156:24 157:3,16169:6 177:4 178:19

suggestion (9) 28:1028:18 29:15 30:1144:6 81:5,6 164:21177:23

suitable (1) 140:24summarised (2)

123:13 161:20summary (4) 14:6 82:9

104:13,15sums (5) 104:20 119:9

122:25 156:13192:2

Superstores (2) 16:2217:5

supervision (1) 166:17supplier (4) 105:9,9,25

119:16suppliers (3) 105:10

105:12 106:19support (16) 16:24

60:9 61:8,15 70:1170:12 74:20 75:1075:22 87:25 110:5118:11 150:22166:11,12 180:12

supporting (5) 8:1960:20 75:22 76:2153:19

suppose (4) 10:16109:12 141:3189:22

supposed (1) 120:25sure (22) 1:17 26:16

33:24 35:5 51:1458:15 62:13 69:571:7 75:11 108:24128:21 140:3 143:2146:12 160:1167:11 177:25186:18 197:9,15203:4

surely (7) 64:24 79:1086:12 107:16108:25 117:7166:19

survey (1) 182:10Susannah (4) 75:17,20

75:21 76:13suspect (1) 134:14suspected (1) 119:5suspend (1) 58:1suspended (18) 20:9

22:23 23:17,1925:21 36:4,4,8,1036:11 46:5,2350:25 51:7 57:3,2290:2,4

suspension (2) 7:11139:3

SV (1) 81:18Swarandeep (4) 78:5

125:21 126:12136:2

swiftly (4) 63:22151:14 161:14167:16

sympathy (1) 122:9system (3) 78:21 79:2

79:3

T

tab (6) 188:4,5,10193:11,11,16

tabs (1) 4:1take (36) 6:2 9:4 27:24

35:11 43:22,2447:2 49:7 50:1851:3 52:14 54:555:19 59:20 78:1681:2 86:24 96:8100:11,24 102:1114:20 117:22132:7 133:17 138:6138:22 155:23159:11 162:8,15171:23 175:13,14177:8 199:2

taken (18) 20:4,1622:19 23:2 26:631:16 33:12 44:845:9 50:4 58:1473:1 95:2 96:6 97:198:1 100:19 160:14

takes (3) 148:18,24161:10

talk (5) 131:18 155:2176:22 182:12195:17

talked (1) 65:18talking (19) 28:25

40:23 48:3 51:1561:9,10 69:2586:14 93:25 101:8102:3 108:7 118:17142:21 143:17149:9 151:12 155:2165:15

talks (1) 186:25TAPS (1) 74:23target (1) 44:13task (1) 56:15tasked (3) 27:4,9 96:7tasks (1) 121:16tax (5) 13:21,24

119:24 188:14195:23

taxation (1) 159:11taxes (1) 120:24team (33) 8:2 10:9

14:22 15:11 18:1838:1 43:12 44:2559:5 60:4 70:1172:17,17,18,2277:24,25 78:179:25 89:22 164:15171:4,6,8 175:2176:22 177:2 182:6182:7,15,16,22183:15

teams (2) 57:18 75:23technically (3) 84:24

85:3,21telephone (1) 22:16telephoned (2) 4:19

15:21tell (5) 77:4 79:21

113:3 136:17176:10

telling (2) 30:25 70:14template (4) 77:16,18

78:24,25

temporary (2) 88:19118:10

ten (3) 159:1,4 187:14term (3) 81:19 118:16

151:21terminal (2) 12:8,19terminate (2) 178:24

180:5terms (17) 36:11 54:8

60:8 74:8 75:1 76:2110:14 131:15149:9,17 178:11185:6 193:3 200:9200:21,24 202:24

Tesco (1) 178:9test (1) 202:24testing (2) 162:12

202:24tests (1) 184:7thank (14) 2:3 14:18

41:2 84:10 146:21199:22 201:24202:1 203:17 204:7204:10,12,17205:11

Thanks (1) 32:15theft (1) 122:19thefts (1) 139:3thing (10) 1:11 7:8

12:21 38:16 39:1448:9 106:8,12136:23 192:12

things (34) 3:7 5:1923:22 25:18 40:1553:14 64:19 72:8106:2,2,3,7,8 107:5109:25 114:8116:23 120:11121:16 129:25145:2 149:10 150:1164:8,12 166:17178:10 180:1,4186:24 187:18,21188:2 203:10

think (85) 2:24,253:13,25 4:3 5:1310:15,18 11:313:25 16:6,25,2518:8 21:9 27:7,1129:11,23 36:1640:15 42:15 43:746:1 63:18 65:1867:17 71:17 72:477:21 84:1 90:193:21 98:13 99:1299:18 100:17 106:3106:14 107:21110:2,4 116:14117:20 119:18120:19 123:21125:8 127:7 139:10141:12 147:24153:5 154:20 157:4157:15 158:3,3160:24 161:21,25165:1,2,7,11,11167:9,9 173:23174:1,5,12 175:7176:19 188:8191:11 193:2 195:1196:5,12,13 198:3200:1 203:24204:20

thinking (3) 157:22,23157:25

thinks (2) 61:21 71:15third (4) 19:9 68:19

183:20 193:18thorny (1) 4:13thought (17) 17:19



18:3 19:22 44:1764:13 85:20 92:18114:7,8 117:17157:20 168:17172:6 174:22175:18 189:19,21

thoughts (1) 102:8thousands (1) 48:17THP (2) 66:18 188:13threat (2) 25:17,18three (14) 9:4,25 10:4

10:6 11:1,20 28:1638:11 138:10154:13 155:9168:20 176:19184:1

threshold (1) 147:22Thursday (1) 1:20ticket (1) 109:14tie (1) 10:8time (100) 2:16 3:1

4:8,23 12:24 14:322:19,21 23:2,926:2,4,6,18 29:2030:1 31:7 34:2438:12,21,23 39:339:20,21 40:142:12,21 44:1245:3,4 46:11 48:1449:4 54:12,13,1559:21 60:15 63:2164:3 65:3,7 67:2067:23 68:5 69:8,1169:22 70:8 71:8,2576:23 77:5 80:1581:9 83:16 84:1588:14 90:3 94:2298:21 99:15,24108:6,9 129:9130:1,18 131:14132:14,17 134:17137:10,18,19138:20 142:1145:18 146:4,4152:16 158:10159:15 163:1164:20 165:24169:1,8,17 172:10174:24 176:18183:10 189:15192:7 196:5 198:11199:9 201:22 204:2

times (8) 9:25 10:1,111:1 138:10 148:5148:7,9

timetable (2) 1:6,7today (4) 37:9 78:23

183:14 204:22told (12) 11:4 35:6

39:16 41:16,1751:9 69:15 116:25122:16 143:9 154:9196:5

tomorrow (3) 204:19205:8,11

top (12) 8:11,22 32:1237:18 53:4 63:1164:6 68:15 75:797:10 116:21134:14

topic (4) 89:13 132:16132:17 155:21

toss‐up (1) 2:25total (3) 11:10 81:15

146:20totalling (2) 101:1

147:3trading (3) 78:5 111:6

149:23train (2) 5:20 109:14

trainee (1) 197:14transactions (1) 190:4transcript (3) 3:24 4:9

15:18transfer (22) 8:2 9:2

12:3 14:22 15:1137:9 38:1 124:15124:24 125:8127:15 128:7,14,15135:18 136:7,21139:18 182:6,16183:2,3

transferee (3) 124:21127:19 128:10

transferred (3) 80:10128:9,18

transparency (1)106:10

transparent (1) 104:13transpire (2) 123:6

138:21transpired (6) 121:24

122:14 123:7,8,9123:19

travel (3) 60:5 109:13116:16

treat (1) 74:2treated (1) 74:3treating (1) 104:8treatment (1) 104:14trial (2) 6:11 166:19tribunal (3) 166:25

173:18,20tribunals (1) 180:2tried (4) 59:12 187:2,3

187:25true (20) 15:23 60:9

61:22 80:16 121:24122:8,14 123:6,19139:4 150:20163:25 181:20184:21 185:4,25186:14,15 187:20187:22

truth (3) 61:20 77:4154:9

try (12) 1:22 24:1466:9 74:2,20114:10 174:5 187:5187:11,11 188:1203:12

trying (10) 14:1444:14 89:6 107:9107:13 143:3 164:9166:24 174:2 205:3

Tuesday (2) 2:11 95:1Turian (3) 50:8,10

64:1turmoil (1) 40:19turn (5) 74:20 148:17

170:6 200:5 201:14turnaround (2) 74:21

82:10turned (2) 54:2 146:11turning (1) 139:6turnover (18) 43:23

44:15,18,20,2347:10,12 48:19147:25 148:4,12,13149:1,25 159:6,16160:20 202:5

twelve (1) 159:4two (38) 9:15 10:1,25

23:24 24:15 26:2528:6,16 29:1031:16,18 40:1549:21 50:3 51:352:24 53:12 63:1972:16,21 82:1883:2 90:16 95:8

101:19,19 106:2117:10 155:14183:19 188:4 190:7192:10 196:14197:7,12 199:7202:17

two‐partner (3)158:15 161:12202:18

two‐person (1) 203:19type (7) 14:9,15 42:17

69:3 168:10 169:13169:15

typed (1) 176:14

U

UK (6) 16:23 17:6,7,1070:4,10

unaware (1) 63:20unbiased (5) 166:25

167:2,5,8,10uncover (1) 187:18underneath (1) 147:10understand (45) 9:23

15:6,6 19:8 20:2023:19 26:12 33:2139:1 40:9 43:1,1643:18 44:2,3,6 47:847:16,25 54:2056:4 57:7,20 59:1259:18 61:4 62:668:9 77:2 78:20,2195:5,11 103:16108:15,17 143:15146:2 156:14 163:7166:22 173:5182:18 189:16202:21

understanding (19)25:15,25 28:1635:5,19 36:10,1336:14 44:12 45:152:7 57:11 61:1498:15 174:14199:18,19 201:12201:21

understood (7) 45:446:6 92:17 94:22143:13 146:13157:24

unfettered (2) 125:6127:5

unfortunate (1) 63:19unfortunately (1) 66:6unrealistic (1) 21:15unreasonably (3)

125:2,9 126:20unusual (9) 67:18

136:12 138:19,20139:2,4,11 144:22150:6

use (9) 107:13 118:16122:11 124:6 126:6127:10 152:19,19167:24

uses (1) 106:18usual (2) 156:22 160:4usually (1) 119:4

V

validity (1) 197:8valuation (15) 8:14,16

8:24 9:1 10:11,2512:3 37:20 101:5137:20,22,23,24138:5 195:22

valuations (6) 100:11100:15,24 102:1,3137:19

value (17) 5:17 12:20

15:20 90:22,2391:22,23 92:3,694:5 137:10,16138:1 139:15,17195:18 203:2

valued (2) 136:22,24values (3) 73:17,20

139:17valuing (4) 5:21 9:3

11:5 14:23various (3) 83:4 110:7

183:10VAT (2) 146:7,16venture (54) 37:7,8

38:2 40:5,5 41:367:25 77:9,10,2377:25 78:1 80:2181:12,16 83:1484:15,25,25 85:4,485:6,9,22,22,2386:22 88:7,19,2088:21 96:9,1797:15 131:4 147:15148:21 150:10152:2,3,5,6,8,11,11154:17,21 182:6,24182:24 183:2,4,15202:17

ventures (1) 182:15version (1) 25:22view (15) 35:7 41:14

41:18,20,23 65:2,667:21,24 80:1481:2 82:20 140:8166:22 191:4

views (2) 172:15185:22

Visionplus (17) 29:1,833:8,10,13,1935:12 111:24151:13 165:12,12172:2 191:15,18,20192:5,7

volume (1) 200:3vote (1) 26:20voted (1) 203:21

W

wages (2) 51:15,19wait (2) 101:16 102:4waiting (3) 61:19

66:15 96:1waived (3) 118:13,16

118:18want (29) 2:21,24 7:12

12:9 24:14 36:2040:20 75:5 87:1991:23 92:13,2194:2,2,6,7 98:8,9100:10 101:25110:15 170:9172:23 175:13,14176:24 185:9 187:8204:8

wanted (8) 32:2435:20 56:9 158:8166:1,2 185:14197:9

wanting (2) 71:1872:21

wants (12) 7:4 29:1659:2,2,4 87:2193:23 133:15135:24 144:8150:24 185:14

warning (2) 103:25104:2

wasn't (34) 17:17 67:471:9 89:24 95:19103:15 104:22

105:16,23 106:2108:18 125:22140:23 141:25142:3,16 143:1,7145:1,23 148:16151:3 152:4 154:11158:7 159:15165:21 166:3,6168:19 180:17188:22 189:24198:2

way (42) 6:11 9:936:20 38:25 42:1543:16 58:17 60:1563:3,7 68:1 79:1,286:17 87:22 89:491:19 94:9 96:2096:21 97:9 107:7111:10 114:21118:4 145:8 153:16160:7 162:9 168:20169:1 170:17180:23 187:11188:20 190:18192:22 193:2195:22 198:8202:20 203:13

ways (1) 195:17Weaver (3) 62:6 63:10

63:10Wednesday (2) 1:21

2:15week (14) 1:15 2:8

19:3 43:17,1747:11,11 53:23,2453:24 148:2 161:9161:9 184:7

weekend (1) 3:3weekly (1) 47:4weeks (8) 28:6 53:24

69:15 148:5,7,9168:20 176:19

week's (1) 43:20weighted (4) 9:25 10:5

11:2 43:22weighting (2) 9:22,24went (12) 4:15 5:18

10:10 33:2 42:1648:19 54:4 141:10141:10 176:21179:14 197:6

weren't (12) 39:1340:23 67:10 99:2102:15 110:20114:8 121:11154:17 183:8200:21 201:14

Weymouth (1) 82:10We'll (1) 205:2whatsoever (3) 104:21

105:12 171:22whilst (7) 53:21 72:23

72:25 119:16,16120:25 121:2

whitewash (1) 153:24wholly (3) 139:2,4

186:9whopping (1) 142:22wide (1) 165:19window (1) 120:7wish (4) 16:2 66:9

74:3 157:6withheld (2) 125:2,9withhold (1) 126:20witness (21) 3:22 4:3

16:7 22:7 27:1149:13 59:6 117:23128:22 129:2 140:3151:16,17 156:7162:9 163:8 181:15

193:12,18,22195:15

wondered (1) 202:16word (6) 8:15 14:1

78:20 107:13112:18 151:19

wording (1) 113:16words (10) 91:20

122:11 124:6 160:7167:24 169:6,7,11176:13,16

work (37) 8:7 44:750:23 56:13 64:1566:6 72:13 100:14104:11,20 108:24112:11 119:10,25120:1,21 123:1,10123:13,14 133:13150:3,6 169:1182:25 183:3,21187:2,4,5,12 188:1191:20 192:21194:20,24 203:4

worked (13) 28:9 45:247:13 48:24 70:2577:24 178:9 180:22182:15,16,23 183:4202:22

workers (1) 104:11working (16) 12:4

27:23 28:22 43:1247:18 134:21140:21 148:22149:21 161:8,10168:20 170:17183:19 184:2202:10

works (16) 8:2 14:2416:22 43:16 62:2170:11 79:2,3,2586:17 119:22182:25 194:25196:7 202:7 204:5

worrying (1) 65:20worse (1) 43:3worth (9) 9:5 11:19,22

54:17 92:8 121:8138:14 149:17150:8

wouldn't (15) 23:1529:9 38:17 46:367:14 89:15 108:25113:10 119:13133:12 144:12,12144:17 186:25196:10

write (2) 32:13 87:8writes (3) 27:19 28:7

90:8writing (7) 3:8 10:20

37:5 62:6 71:1175:17 170:15

written (12) 2:10 3:165:9 81:2 86:2595:25 103:25 104:2112:25 113:7177:15 195:24

wrong (6) 10:19116:11 119:16,17187:18 189:21

wrongdoing (1)120:17

wrote (5) 81:10 82:23116:6 153:12,13

Y

year (34) 9:19 10:1,1,213:14 43:11,2144:13,22,23 48:2053:24,25 54:21

56:23,24 58:889:18 138:12 139:1139:2 148:4 150:13157:8 158:25 159:2159:4,7,12,13160:19,23 200:18201:1

years (17) 9:5,7 10:612:17 28:12,15,1668:1 87:2 121:7152:24,24 154:13155:10 178:9179:25 187:14

year's (3) 12:12160:17 198:16

yesterday (2) 137:18137:21

1

1 (28) 5:10 24:1,11,1824:22 25:20 30:1944:17,19,20,2147:11 73:8 78:5102:20 127:9 139:6148:4,7,9,13,17,18148:24 149:1,24202:5,23

1,000 (1) 65:201,200 (2) 47:21 147:21,288 (1) 197:251.02 (1) 102:231.193 (1) 159:61.2 (1) 139:61.218 (1) 159:710 (12) 2:11 5:5 43:13

43:13,14 44:1547:3 75:7 149:3188:4,6,10

10,000 (4) 53:19 54:2455:2,3

10.30 (4) 1:2 204:18205:11,13

100 (11) 79:8 80:385:15 94:18 95:1295:14 96:13 128:23143:15 168:7183:16

100,000 (6) 54:19138:14 139:7 149:4149:12,25

100,000‐ish (1) 150:9101 (4) 5:1 128:23

129:2,4102 (1) 5:4103 (3) 5:8 11:22

140:6104 (2) 5:10 141:6105 (1) 151:15107 (1) 152:131073 (1) 103:1011 (1) 193:2511.41 (1) 49:811.49 (1) 49:10110,000 (3) 53:25

56:23 58:8113 (2) 152:13 156:4114 (1) 160:14115 (3) 156:14,18

159:23116 (1) 156:14117 (1) 156:51176 (1) 132:51177 (1) 131:20118 (1) 162:41180 (1) 132:512 (4) 10:18,19 141:16

194:1112th (1) 141:14120 (1) 161:16120,000 (4) 58:8 97:25



139:7,8121 (1) 134:151210 (3) 135:6,7,81217 (1) 141:14122 (2) 167:18 169:21123,500 (1) 11:22124 (3) 180:9 190:7,8125K (1) 10:21125,000 (2) 137:4,5126 (2) 181:17 190:8127 (1) 184:5128 (1) 184:17128812 (1) 198:1613 (4) 4:12,24 5:5

196:1813th (1) 66:713(a) (1) 194:141300 (2) 144:24 145:3132 (1) 181:414,700 (1) 101:114,781.25 (1) 100:714,942 (2) 189:3,18140,842 (1) 159:131482 (1) 112:201483 (1) 113:121484 (2) 114:1,241485 (1) 114:115 (10) 65:17 75:7

124:3,5,7,11,12127:14 178:22194:11

15‐day (1) 2:1515.1.1 (1) 126:19150 (1) 47:14150,000 (1) 53:2516 (13) 5:4 6:25 7:20

9:2 15:8 28:6 30:6124:17,19,25127:17,20 128:4

16K (1) 89:1716th (1) 5:2416,000 (2) 93:25,2516,225 (1) 159:1217 (6) 30:7 141:17

178:18,21,23 189:8177 (5) 52:15,18

125:19 126:8,9178 (1) 9:1918 (3) 193:11,11,1618,500 (2) 43:21,25180 (2) 52:20 53:2184 (1) 193:13186 (3) 124:5,12 194:8189 (1) 196:119 (5) 188:25 195:17

195:18 196:21197:7

19,700 (3) 147:20148:5,9

1995 (1) 78:5

2

2 (9) 11:3,21 47:1178:13 79:5,7 80:17102:21 126:10

2nd (2) 101:16 102:52,200 (1) 53:232,500 (1) 156:82,640 (1) 53:242.00 (1) 102:252.5 (2) 11:3,2120 (11) 4:15,24 5:18

39:17 44:16,24,2547:3 49:13 98:18195:14

20th (3) 4:18 10:1015:21

20,000 (2) 148:7 150:820,340 (1) 145:17200 (8) 61:3,4 88:11

107:18 108:1,2,4206:4

2000 (1) 71:252002 (5) 59:21 60:15

71:23 72:1 87:232004 (1) 9:82005 (1) 9:72006 (5) 9:7 10:13

44:17,21 198:192007 (31) 7:20 15:9

18:23 22:23,2323:2,23 24:2244:19,20 64:365:11 75:12 76:2484:13 85:21 96:24103:9,14 104:25105:5 136:22,24138:13 164:9,12165:24 183:11186:2 187:15198:13

2007/beginning (1)129:9

2008 (13) 112:22129:10 132:7 133:9135:8 137:23138:13 139:22162:19 164:17166:3,12 183:11

2008/2009 (1) 162:102009 (3) 164:17

166:12 184:15201 (1) 206:52010 (19) 157:17,18

157:19,22,25158:17 159:1,1,6159:10,15 160:5,18160:19 162:6163:13 191:23200:14,18

2011 (7) 158:17160:16,17 167:23200:9 201:16,21

2014 (1) 1:121 (1) 132:522 (10) 5:8 36:25 37:1

37:5 38:9,17 189:4189:7,8,9

22,252 (2) 13:5,1223 (1) 38:1025 (1) 5:827 (3) 20:9 22:23

25:2127/28 (1) 178:9275 (2) 6:22,23275A (1) 6:2028 (3) 63:22 75:17

84:3

3

3 (11) 1:1 5:4,10 11:311:21 47:11 53:4151:19 196:17206:2,3

3x (1) 136:53,085 (2) 43:25 44:13.1 (2) 52:19 53:63.1.1 (7) 34:1,2,10

52:22 53:9 112:12112:15

3.15 (1) 155:243.2 (1) 53:143.2.8 (2) 53:18 56:213.23 (1) 156:130 (6) 47:12,13 159:1

200:14,18 201:1630,000 (1) 198:2530,043 (1) 68:23300 (2) 72:4,14305 (1) 77:19

306‐24 (1) 197:1831 (5) 83:19 84:4,17

85:21 96:1032,500 (3) 141:23

142:25 143:2236 (3) 190:15,21 191:3360‐1 (1) 197:20365 (3) 158:18,19

200:16368 (4) 200:5,13,14,2137 (1) 191:16393 (2) 18:22,23395 (1) 201:14

4

4 (3) 5:1 47:11 181:34.15 (1) 84:164.30 (1) 205:1240 (1) 179:2540,000 (1) 198:21400 (5) 60:21 61:2,17

107:16 108:541.50 (1) 62:254132 (1) 180:244138 (2) 180:24 181:4418 (2) 24:1,34192 (4) 161:25 162:1

168:8 169:54199 (4) 162:2 168:9

169:5 177:942 (3) 141:13 144:9,1142,000 (10) 142:19

143:2,5,14,24144:1,22 145:10147:7 150:3

426 (1) 24:4433 (1) 27:2434 (1) 27:1944 (1) 9:1944,504 (2) 13:9,10440 (26) 53:21 55:1

56:20 59:7 60:7,1460:16,17,20 71:1971:22 72:14 87:187:13,20,21 88:1190:16,25 92:10108:6,13 116:16,21117:8,9

447 (2) 28:5 45:9448 (1) 45:1045,000‐ish (1) 142:5450 (2) 28:4 32:10457 (3) 36:22,22 37:246,000 (1) 56:25488 (1) 42:2

5

5 (16) 7:24,25 47:1173:4,10 75:4,7156:23,25 157:8,19159:18,21 160:4188:12 193:25

5,000 (1) 56:1050 (15) 9:3 11:11,12

13:8,12,17,1858:23 97:4,14145:6 147:2 148:7149:18 193:1

50,000 (5) 149:17,20150:12 157:5 202:9

50/50 (1) 150:9506 (3) 50:5 58:21,2452 (3) 53:24 148:5,954 (1) 73:8546 (2) 61:23 63:1155,000 (3) 11:25 136:4

138:3582 (2) 63:22,25588 (1) 64:4592 (1) 66:18

6

6 (2) 81:15 188:126,675 (1) 13:246,943 (1) 109:36,943.75 (1) 108:2260 (1) 138:1160K (2) 136:5 138:460,000 (7) 137:8,25

139:16 147:3,7149:19 150:12

60/40 (1) 82:12637 (1) 66:23643 (1) 68:3644 (2) 68:14,1565 (2) 4:4 16:665,000 (4) 54:10,14

138:15 150:765,120 (1) 108:18650 (1) 71:1066 (6) 4:5 16:8,17 22:8

103:24 104:2367 (1) 49:1269 (1) 73:7696 (3) 73:5,5,8

7

7 (3) 4:1 112:22188:12

7.15 (1) 30:77.24 (1) 64:117.40 (1) 6:257.42 (1) 15:1370,000 (1) 198:22700 (4) 72:25 73:3,10

73:18701 (1) 73:15710 (1) 75:12710‐5 (1) 84:3711 (3) 77:13 83:21

85:12712 (1) 84:4714 (2) 83:18 84:1672,500 (1) 9:1573 (2) 106:23 107:774 (2) 110:6,1176,000 (1) 198:2477.70 (1) 62:25

8

8 (2) 5:1 188:128,800 (2) 100:8 101:380K (1) 10:2180,000 (1) 137:4800 (1) 92:7802 (1) 90:6803 (3) 94:23,24,2582 (3) 11:2 110:22,2382‐and‐a‐bit (1) 11:2283 (1) 117:2185 (1) 117:2185,000 (1) 137:585,185 (1) 68:2287 (1) 49:12870 (2) 100:2,12872 (1) 101:989 (2) 117:23 118:4

9

9 (2) 80:19 132:49,000 (1) 196:79,469 (1) 196:29.2 (8) 177:10,19,19

178:4,17,22,24179:22

9.2.1 (2) 178:17 179:19.2.2 (1) 179:59.2.3 (1) 179:109.2.4 (1) 179:119.21‐9.24 (1) 178:3

90 (7) 118:24 119:1121:20 122:2,5159:17 160:20

91 (1) 9:19932 (1) 96:22934 (3) 96:18,20,2597 (1) 123:24974 (1) 12:1798 (1) 124:499 (2) 4:12,23

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