MR. WIGGLES - INTERVIEW

Posted By: ABoogie Date: 26.10.2010 Category: Interviews

Dope interview by Aboogie & FabOne. Photos by grzybecki.com. Check this out!!

Thou it ’s just a mere formality: What’s Your name? where are You from? what crews do You represent now? I’m Steffan Clemente – Mr. Wiggles from the Bronx. Represent Rock Steady Crew, Electric Boogaloos, The Cool Five – TC5 Generation, Magnificent Force, Electric Company. Part of them are from time when I was a kid. You’re in Warsaw for the second t ime now. How do You l ike Poland? People are warm but the weather is cold. ;) You’re in touch with hip-hop culture from the very start and at i ts source. What were Your beginnings? My beginnings were at the street. You know, Mom was working all day, children got out from school and tried to not get into troubles. I was born in Spanish Harlem, we moved to the Bronx in 1970. It was a very scary place where they sent people back from NY. So everybody was there on the street, especially children. It wasn’t so bad because at summer time we got around there and had a lot of parties, every day. Everybody got out their equipment. Everybody knew what was goin’ on. Hip hop culture came from that. It was a life style for me, I grew up this way, doin’ all those things that kids do. Also we had there a lot of activities on the street – bombing, battling and things like that. We just do this at the Bronx and never thought that that will become something as big and go around the world. When we got older parties became our lifestyle. It was in connection with the things which were around us. Jams where there all the time. You could hear from your block that there is a jam at the park. So you got there and see that everybody was there. You are there on 52 and you hear that there is another jam. It was for us just for dancin’, hangout and get some girls. Boom. There’s another jam…and it was at one night. Jams were everywhere. It was the life in Bronx. In our time it was the hip hop. At this time everybody in my crew (in Bronx) were mc’s, dj’s, did the jams, bombed, danced. We did all those things which got in common with this culture, also dressed fly. You know, we just wanted to look fly in our neighborhood. We knew that everybody was lookin’ at our clothes and even the little details. For me it was important. I changed color of my cazals for it. Take the lenses out. Get the spray change the color and just wear the cazals without the lenses. Do the same thing with my belt buckle. Everything had to match. It was our style.

At f irst hip-hop was an escape from the reali ty of Bronx. The world has changed. What is the today role of hip-hop? Is the idea st i l l up-to-date? That’s right. It was our escape. We’ve had nothing. Bronx was the worst ghetto but we’ve made it the best because of hip hop. I think this culture is some kind of escape, no matter the status. It’s still the way of reaching and touching people, poor or rich. Getting them out from drugs or thinkin’ about a suicide and other problems. The real hip hop helps. It’s all about changing the way of thinkin’. You don’t have to be for 20 years at an art school to grab a can, drop the outline and leave with props. Situations like this are also in common with unity. It’s all about the unity. Peace, love, unity and havin’ fun. Who don’t want to be in somethin’ like this? It was just good for us. It was about the lifestyle to get somethin’ different. It was everything for us - dacin’, dressing fly, music, and so on. The way of getting out of the problems. And I think it’s still the same: changing people. If someone asked me if I was in ghetto at this time, because of hip hop I wouldn’t know. But I think that without this culture I would know what was the real ghetto. Right now when I’m not living there, got out from the Bronx, I can’t believe it. It was bad. You could see when people got murdered in front of you, also at the jams. It was crazy. The reality was scary but it is a part of our life. Batt l ing is a rather unique form in the world of dance. If dancing is having fun, then where did this form come from and what was its purpose? It came from the rockin’ movement and freestyle. It was all about the girls. If You dance better you will get the girls. But there is also a different thing. For young ghetto kids in a gang representing their block it was a big thing. Gang from my block had a war with the gang from Brook Avenue. And the party was at the middle between our areas. So both gangs are coming in and they take the best dancers they have, in case it just pops off. At my gang I was the person whose job was to smoke off other dancers. It was my mission, my duty for my neighborhood to represent my block. It was the way of fighting but without fighting and it kept the peace. It was crazy. If you look at it you would think that we were fighting, that everybody was fighting. It was the way for representing the block. For me it was a path on which I don’t have to do all things kids did to get respect. The second thing was that we didn’t have studio and any place where we could practice. Battling was only way to get smoked and practice your skills. If you didn’t get smoked you wouldn’t get better. If you got smoked, practiced and got better, you get back and take the revenge.

A lot of us often went to another neighborhood and smoked someone in front of his girl, mom, sister and all of girls from his neighborhood. It was all about the girls. You go to another neighborhood to see other girls. So if I smoked someone in front all those girls it’s extra prop. It was the reality. ;) So at first you have to represent your block and the second you should be the best to get more girls. ;) We didn’t stand into circles for all day and get sweaty. We just get in to do our thing and get out to get the party with friends and girls. Music changes, gets smoother into slow dances. Hip hop jams change into slow jams. So if you could get a girl into slow dance it was an extra prop. It was a pay day for you. ;) It has a really big part in it, in this culture.

In the beginning there were 4 elements of hip-hop. Is i t st i l l l ike that? How many elements are there now? 4 elements - it was Crazy Legs promotion. At this time we didn’t count the elements. In the 90s we were trying to bring it back. At this time there were magazines coming out like The Source witch only promoted rappers. In interviews we tried to struggle with this. In our opinion you cannot call a magazine a “hip hop magazine” and promote only rappers. Media were always directed to rap. Crazy Legs realized it slowly and it came out of nowhere. During our interview Crazy Legs was very upset and he just told that it ain’t hip hop and started to count elements. At the same time Afrika Bambaataa did the same thing, without talkin’ to Crazy Legs. They had the same idea and way of thinkin’ about this at the same time. And it worked, becamevery popular. Also Crazy Legs popularized an idea that it is not goin’ about old school or new school but the true school. He is brilliant at things like that. He has got a gift. Only few people from the ghetto know how to speak. He knows how to turn the negative things into positives. He did that and it worked. He helped hip hop. A lot of people know about only 4 elements and use them (as bboying, graffiti writing, DJing, MCeeing). The media, hip hop organizations and so on, and it works. 4 elements are everywhere. But it isn’t right. We’ve got a lot more of them. Makin’ beats is an element, everything from recording to fashion and knowledge. But then everyone looks at 4 elements. I don’t count them but I know that there are more than 4. Even a hip hop lawyer, who knows every aspect of hip hop connections, businesses and so on. That’s important in hip hop. But we have to remember that hip hop is in itself the way of thinkin’, showing yourself, and the unity. What is Your opinion on hip-hop being commercial ized? Is hip-hop gett ing off the street and becoming a merchandise? Honestly hustlin’ is one of hip hop elements. I can’t hate someone for being a hustler, especially when this person has nothing else. Also because I’m a hustler. Everything I do, it’s for to pay the rent. I’m not a businessman, I’ve never been. I used to do different things – street stuff. I know how to do that not doin’ businesses. People who made them get a million dollars. I just make it for survive. This is how it goes. This is not wrong. But I can see people who don’t believe in this culture and try to make money on it. I think too much companies want to do business like this. I’m not talkin’ about businesses which support events, jams and hip-hop culture only about people who don’t understand this culture and try to get profits from it. In my opinion only b-boys, b-girls and “other hip hop members” should take the responsibility to not support those companies. The best what I can say is “don’t buy it”. ‘Cause this is not the first and the last time when some cooperations break up the hip hop with money. That’s what happened with rappers. Let’s be real. Rap killed

hip hop. Rap is straight hip hop and we all support it but it’s different right now. At the beginnings all people from the crew made it – the DJ, b-boys, rapper. It presents all crew. Right know it’s all about the rapper. Crews don’t matter at this business. You can hire b-boys, DJ and so on. In my crew there was everybody and they were part of the crew. Traveling together, earning same money together. It was the real crew. So now you can see the difference. Some people forget about the idea while arguing the history. What is more important, the history or the idea itself? History is important for me because in hip hop we live up and we won’t forget. A lot of time for people is easier to forget about the past because it was bad for themselves. In hip hop we never name dropped always showed people up. We always talk about how it started and people who didn’t travel all around the world or retired in 1979 or 1974 who never got their props. We’ve got Rubber Band who died in 1974 and he was the biggest influence in dance in NY in the Bronx since the beginnings. People will forget about him or try to brush him under the water. He was so significant in hip hop and dance styles, it would be a crime not to mention him and what he did. I have never seen him dance. He was in hip hop when I was a kid. He ran all over the Bronx, then he moved to Manhattan, got famous there and moved to Brooklyn. He became a legend in Brooklyn. This man was traveling and battling all the time. It was an example how b-boy should live. Should bounce from ghetto to ghetto battling and meeting people. Some of people live on their neighborhoods and don’t want to come out. I just wanted to be the best not on my block but on the others, every ghetto and all around the world. Rubber Band did that, so he is a part of this history. He created flexibility moves, spiders and other things. What Salah did with popping, he did with breakin over 30 years ago. He danced with the cane and just did all new stuff like this. He wanted to be different. We wore sneakers, he wore marshmallows like The Lockers. People think that marshmallow come from California, but it came from NY. The Lockers came to NY saw the marshmallows on the east and took them to the west. Nobody knew that. For me that’s important. In my opinion arguing about the facts and history and gettin’ to know who was the first depends on how deep you wanna go into the dance. People have to decide what is important for them. If you do it for props and having fun maybe it’s not that important. When do it as a part of your life and it becomes your lifestyle it’s very important. People like that want to teach. If kid ask them about the history it’s hard to say ‘I don’t know’ and this kid is still waiting for his answer. It’s very important when people like this come from nowhere and wanna claim an OG status. It’s about those local dancers who missed their boat and lost their chance. Right now they wanna get props, saying that they made up something, but they even can’t do this. They still trying to get the credit for those who made it and still can do it and just get the fame. I think we have to look at many things learning history and the ‘facts’ but at first we should look at the dance. You could see the move’s naturalness in his style and you could say ‘yeah he could create it’. A lot of people are coming and saying that they created poppin’. Ok, I told them to pop and I saw only the robot. How come they could say that they invented something if they are doing something else. Also I had a pleasure talkin’ with people before they made their claims. 2 year ago I talked with certain people and they’ve never claimed poppin’. Because at that time it wasn’t big, so they said ‘Electric Boogaloos’ made it up. But 10 years later when poppin’ gets big, they say that they made up this too. For those 10 years they’ve never said it but right know they want to be a part of it. People are still changing their stories to get fame. All those things are better for me, because I was in a right place and in a right time. I can only thank that I could grow up at this time. Ok. So if we just talked about history and facts, please tel l me about poppin’ history. Is i t possible to tel l where does it come from - Fresno or maybe San Francisco? I did the researching from the beginning as a person who loves the dance so much. I knew that the Solomon Family made this dance from the beginning. No one argues with it. This was common knowledge in the 70’s and 80’s. It’s on Soul Train, that they made it up. Look at the episode, "Don" Cornelius told that EB’s made it up. Why people didn’t challenge that then. Why didn’t they say that EB’s were lying at this time. They say that they didn’t have a camera so they can’t prove it. But this is not true. In the Bay Area they’ve had a popular tv show. They could go and tell, EB’s are lying we made it up. They didn’t go but wait 10 – 20 – 30 years to get something from popping when it got bigger. This is a problem for me. Everybody can say anything but try to do this, do the real pop. You can compare it with other styles robot, Fillmore and so on. It’s different. I have no clue why they are tryin’ to claim something from what EB’s created. It’s the same with other styles. In Bronx we’ve got freestyle rockin’, Brooklyn has a jerk style. Both are great styles but they’re totally different. They both came at the same time but different people created it. If you want to prove me you have to show me with all details.

EB’s created poppin’. They got an inspiration from earliest dancers who didn’t pop. We have to get the differences between all styles poppin, robotin’, dime stoppin’. But you have to remember that the movement and the dance style was similar. So there were a lot of similar dancers. EB’s never claim that. We dance it also but we never said that we made them up. I’m talkin’ about the styles and certain moves, for example animation or tuttin’. We’ve never argued with the creators. We’ve got Pomona and waving, King Tut, and so on. We’ve never argued with them about those styles. But when poppin’ got famous, everyone wants to get in. It’s with all styles. The second problem is like that: the most of people get to much styles in one. At the beginnings when you was waving, or tuttin’ a lot of them told that this is breakin’. They were wrong. Right know we’ve got this problem with poppin. A lot of people include others styles in it. This was the main problem with street culture. Everything were got into one thing the breakin’. For a long time dancers are talkin’ about different styles. Poppin’ is poppin’. Tuttin’ is tuttin’. Wavin’ is wavin’. So now we’ve got a bigger question. Who created those styles? and it’s better. When more history comes out, more styles are separated. What do you think about the ‘Funkstyles’ and dance styles which you get into funk music? I love the funkstyles. We love it. Because every person with who I talked in the past talk about what they did. They say about the funk and the style. It always came in some way during this talk. You have to be funky and have your own style. Some people say that there is no funkstyle but they still promote the sentence “have to be funky and have your own style”. They said that they never use the word funkstyle. But they don’t know that they use it in their own way. In my opinion this a great word which helped to get all this culture in one. It was some kind of umbrella term describing the lifestyle, way of dressing, dancers and the different styles. We never get styles into one. When we did the funkstyle contest we did it for different styles. We separated them all but it was hip hop and funkstyle. Also we use funkstyle to describe EB’s movement from the beginnings. We don’t say to everybody that they have to agree with it but if you want to be a part of what we did and still do, it’s a funkstyle. What virtues should a good dancer have? I ’m not speaking about the technique and ski l ls, but mental i ty. Love the music. This is kind’a personal. King Uprock said it. It’s one of the best things I ever heard someone say is “You’ve got to love the music”. And when he said that… light bulb… simple - you’ve got to love the music and you’ve got to show it, remember that. If you talk about a b-boy battle it’s also about putting another person down, but they’re missing the love for the music. At the same time you’re supposed to show the love for that song. And for me that is the highest art. If you do that and someone can see it or feel it it’s the highest art. If you’re talking about a state of mind – everybody should be a peacemaker. I’m a peacemaker. But it’s not always like that. It’s not in everyone’s nature. Some people might think differently and act differently. That’s their own metamorphosis. I can’t argue with that. It’s between them an God. Sometimes it’s a question of their b-boy character. It’s not because they are big, it’s because the character is big in them. So when they battle, that’s big in them. There is no light switch. So those people… All I know is, I love the way they dance. I can’t help it so I won’t. I just love the way they dance. That’s personal evolution. I’d like to say, that every b-boy should have the most respect for other people, Bambaataa said so. If they honor the cause and respect the level of Zulu, a real Zulu, it’s good enough for me.

What’s Your opinion on dancers today? You’ve told us what You l ike in them. But what do You condemn? I think we’ve already passed the level of fighting. We did that already. Dancing is our escape from putting our hands up. If you can’t answer the question where to move, then you should step off the floor. So I think in that case the hole “trying to keep it real” shit and the throwing your hands up and putting your hands in somebody… In life in general, I don’t think any human being should ever put their hands in another human being unless it’s self defense or defending a child or family… I always put two fingers up (peace sign) and that’s how it is in my life. Some people say, that every move has already been done before. Where’s the l ine between inspiration and copying? There are many moves like Thomas, that many dancers do and they are not considered a bite. Every move that has been taken from somebody else and changed even a little bit is something new. The longer you dance and more experienced you get, you get rid of the copying. You get your own style, that in a certain way effects all your moves. But when you take a bunch of moves along with someone’s style that is copying. It’s the same story with EBs and popping. Earlier there were moves that were similar to popping and some elements of boogaloo but there was no groove in it, and no pop itself. It evolved to popping created by EBs, as a new style. Most hip-hop dancers consider You an OG. What makes an OG in Your opinion? Who is an OG for You? Should he be a mentor f igure? An OG is a West Coast term that became popular in the east and the west. Am I an OG in my mind? No. But if someone calls me that I accept it. If a student or a person that respects you will call you, so you have to accept it. But I look up to too many people that came before me, to call myself that, as long as I have an opportunity to talk to you and the camera. Because of that I won’t call myself like that. I’ll step back a little bit. It’s about a person being honest about their life experience they reached and you can mentor that way. Even if you’re on a wrong path, by being honest telling the truth, you can teach kids, because you tell them what you did, and they will say “ooh, I didn’t know that”. A guy cannot be the nicest person on the planet, but if he’s honest about his attitude and things like that that’s at least something to learn from. So we’ve got to find the way to use our best judgment when we say stuff to be mentor to the kids. The kids are not looking for a pat at the back and say “nice move”. If they’re gonna be breaking for the rest of their lives, you’ve got to settle it down, to make sure that these kids are going to dance without breakin’ down the rest of their lives. So yes he should be a mentor. Your son Unico is a dancer to. Is He a good dancer? Did he choose his own path, or does he fol low Your steps? He’s much better than I was in his age. He chose his own path. He started following me, but then he met all the other great dancers and became a student of all of them. Then he met Electric Boogaloos and started to perform with them… Skeet was his biggest mentor in my opinion, but he loves me, Pete and Suga Pop. He always wanted to be original. His dancing is original. He’s not trying to imitate, that’s plus no.1. Unico will go down and lose every battle sticking to his own style and not doing moves to win the battle, plus no.2. He has

my rhythm, he has technique, and he fully understands that. He has all the pluses to be successful. And me? I don’t expect him to dance like me. I don’t want it. I asked him if he’s gonna’ go to Electric Boogaloos or stay home with me. He chose EB. I was sad, but on the other hand I was happy that he was man enough to say it. What wil l hip-hop be l ike in, let ’s say, 25 years? I think that that hip hop, that I look at, that I now will always remain underground. That aspect of hip hop is always gonna’ be there. As I grow older I always can go back to the place I call home and say this is hip hop. I judged a contest, I won’t say where or who, but in the whole contest, from hundreds of competitors, there was only one hip hop group, that I can say it was hip hop, “Stick to their guns”. I thought they’re going to lose, but they won. And I was like “that’s positive”. So that means, that in this place the other kids there are going to get inspired and next time I go there there’s gonna’ be like ten of them. So that showed me that when you stick to your guns and you do what you believe is the real thing. That actually will cause a chain reaction and make it better and more popular there. So it’s still underground. Remember “Wild style”? When they went on stage, everybody rhymin’… that was my greatest hip hop time. I don’t think I can ever top that. But the closer I can get to that… Even in class when I can connect with people and get into the grove… the more I can keep that, that’s getting better. You do many things, you do graff i t i , b-boying, rocking, popping, locking, so I have a hard question for You. If graff i t i is hip-hop’s painting, rap is the music, then what is i ts ult imate dance form? That’s easy actually… Yes, but I want You to explain i t to everyone. I understand it my own way, but I want to show Your opinion. For me the ultimate dance form is the rockin’. The other dance styles… Popping and locking became like… when the forms from east and west met they just connected. So if I play a song that reflects my childhood, you’re not gonna’ see poppin’, it will either be bounce or rockin’. Thou I love popping. Popping brought me my fame… What are Your plans considering dancing and music for the near future? I don’t make plans. One month I’m bombing or making graffiti on a wall, next month I make beats, next month I’m rhyming to those beats. I just write lyrics, I never rhyme, in a book, and then leave it. Hip hop is something that got me out in the hood, got me out of the biggest problem I had in my life and I will never betray it. I’m not planning to go to school, not trying to do anything else but hip hop. When I was a kid, there was a guy who I consider a pioneer, who taught me, one of the earliest b-boy in the early 70s, his name was Jay B Luciano. He was the one that cleaned my school. Jay B was older, when we were kids tryin’ to break. He was a janitor at my school and he’s one of the happiest people I ever met. Jay B taught me moves… he organized Jay b dances and there were all b-boys and b-girls, and he showed us a good time. We’ve had a good time. I’m sure that with his life he was content and that was his mission that inspired Mr. Wiggles, and I went on and represented him, Jay B the janitor, and he was a real b-boy… it was 1978-1979. Could You tel l us about The Cool 5 and how You got Your name? When I got out of breakin’ in 1978 when he died in most of the areas a lot of Puertoricans moved up to north side. I went back into bombing, rhyming and all that. My cousins were graffiti writers and they made pictures of trains and hand me to make a book. My other cousin was in “Wild style”. He was one of the main graffiti writers in the movie and they were in my house every weekend. When our families came together. We were partying together, and I was writing every weekend. So that was my thing. Then I got to Art and Design High school where most of the graffiti writers went. We’ve had Lady Pink, Doze, Erni, Fabel, Seen and I could go on. Also Pharoe Monch, Mobb Deep. There was the crew everybody knew about, the TC5. The originators from to 70s gave to little Seen and he recruited us. I always wanted to be in TC5. TC5 was hip hop. The way they dressed, the way they talked, the way they walked it was cool. I kept practicing and one day Seen looked at my book, took it and wrote something on every page. As I looked at it later it said “Rek TC5”. I was known as Rek at the time. And I was like “oh shit!”. At the time TC5 and RSC were close together. We were all b-boys and writers. As I got to Rock Steady I started to pop. My breaking was old,

their style was new, and I wasn’t as good. Seen saw me pop at school, and he had another name “Mr. Wiggles” and he gave me the name. And on the streets it was very respected ‘cause of Seen. In my mind “Mr. Wiggles” didn’t just represent popping, it represented hip hop. That’s how I got my name, by Seen TC5.

Could You explain where we have this f ighting style that is cal led 52 blocks from? Well, 52 blocks is the system of fighting that came before hip hop. It originally came from the jails. If you were from the streets and locked up in jail, and the cell was small, and you’d have handcuffs on your hands how would defend yourself when they try to rob you? Well there the system of these blocks and strikes. It looked like dancing. But actually they called it hand style. When people got out of jail, and went to a battle, and a b-boys saw them they said their nice with their hands. When two crews met You would see all those crazy hand styles. It was going on since the gangs, and the 52 style is the system that was created in jail and carried on to the streets. It was slap boxing, jail house rockin’ and 52. What people don’t know is that all the b-boy were doing 52. Most of hand moves that rocker do came from 52, from Brooklyn, Manhattan, Queens cause all of them went into the same jail and that’s where the 52 was developed. Wu Tang Clan is talking about 52, Mike Tyson is a boxer, but mainly a 52 blocks specialist. And this was as popular, or more, than breakin’. Slap boxing is with open hands and is the thing we did with our friends. When you see it it’s like an art, and it’s all b-boy. You can see this in a b-boy, in the way they move. A lot of b-boy were specialists, so the put it in their dance. And no one talks about that. I t was a pleasure for me to hear a lot of stories from your l i fe also about the fat laces. Could You say i t once again to the others? I just wanna show it as an example, how everything evolved at this t ime. In the beginning we wore pro-Keds 69s and converse. The laces were becoming gray, and we were trying to be clean, so we used to iron them. Not just me, everybody in the Bronx and Manhattan. When You Iron them, they become wider. Not much. I had a crew at the time, and my boys saw something in that. One of them went into a store and bought a ribbon. He brought it to school and put it on his protects and it looked stupid. We were laughing. The ribbon was wide, not fat. But Fabel said “wait a minute”. He went to another store and he bought an elastic, that you put in your pants. It was ¼ inch wide and he put it in his converse all stars. He laced it, looked at it and it didn’t look good. He knew that people would laugh. There’s a thing in the ghetto, that they call a jelly roll (jelly rolled inside a cake). He rolled a sock inside the shoe and then he laced it and it stayed. Then he went to school. And everybody was like “oh shit!”. It looked clean. On the next day we all came like that, the whole crew. Everybody was asking Fabel how he did it. It got so famous that GQ Magazine did an article on fat laces. But it was no lace, it was elastic. And they put a picture of a converse in GQ. It got famous, but no one knew how to do it. So converse made that lace. We were so mad, so angry. But that’s the true fat lace story. That’s exactly how it went down. That’s al l we wanted to ask You. It ’s a great honor for us to have You as a guest here. Thank You for visit ing us and for sharing Your knowledge with us. We hope to see You again soon. If You want to say something more ;) I t ’s your t ime now.

It’s the second time here. I’m very happy to be in Poland. Never thought I would be here. My thing is, you know, stayin’ true with the culture and foundations. Still put this on the top. Never lose the feeling with hip hop. I still remember and love what Afrika Bambaataa said at one of the speeches IF YOU WANNA KNOW WHO YOUR PEOPLE ARE, PLAY THE DRUM AND THEY’LL ALL COME. For me that is hip hop. No matter the race and skin color. That’s the real hip hop. Keep remembering this. Aight. Peace, much respect Poland form the Bronx. I see You ;) Txt: Aboogie & FabOne Photo: grzybecki.com