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MasterClass: How To Get The Best Out Of Your Staff

Hi guys, welcome to this MasterClass on How To Get The Best Out Of Your Staff.

You may have a staff of just yourself and maybe a one day a week volunteer or you may

have a staff of 20, 25, 30 people. So whatever size staff, I think this MasterClass will help

you.

Over the course of pastoring 30 years in our church I was part of the staff, I led the staff for

20 years as the Lead Pastor / Senior Pastor in our church and my overall, whole thing about

staff is I loved having staff.

Now staff occasionally would give me headaches, occasionally would frustrate me,

occasionally would make me wish I had no staff at all, occasionally broke my heart as well.

But my overall experience was positive and I loved the strength and the joy and the

effectiveness that a staff brought into the life of our church.

I love it when churches employ people and also have staff as volunteers so over the course

of being on the church staff and leading the church stuff over 30 years I learnt a fair bit

about staff matters so in this MasterClass I want to help you maximize the effectiveness and

the impact of your staff.

Who is on staff? Firstly it’s important to decide who is on staff and there’s a couple ways you can go here.

You may decide that the only people who are on the staff of the church, formally and

officially, are those who are on the payroll, those who are paid. Whether a half a day, three

days, full time, whatever the payment is you may decide that the only staff members we are

going to have here are those who are paid.

The other option is actually to consider key volunteers who come into the office during the

week to fulfil certain roles and count them as part of the staff as well as the paid members

of the staff.

So let's have a think about that. What are the advantages of each system?


Advantages / Disadvantages

I've listed a number of advantages that, I think, to have volunteers who are not paid

members of staff but to incorporate them into the staff and treat them as staff, as volunteer

non paid staff.

One is the sense of honour that people feel about being on the staff.

Also there is an accountability. Now I’m on staff there is a place where I will be measured by

what I do and when I turn up and how I actually perform as a staff member.

I think it creates a stronger ownership of culture and values and what we’re trying to do as

a team and it produces healthy connections between paid and non-staff.

I think the disadvantage of including key volunteers to the staff is sometimes it can be

difficult with so many staff getting them all in one place at one time so that can present a

bit of a challenge if you want to have a staff meeting and you have a lot of volunteer staff,

trying to gather them together for a staff meeting.

Some volunteers also don't want to be called a staff member. They feel the level of

responsibility and burden of that is too much and they don't want it so it’s important to

respect that.

Also sometimes in a church of 100 people to have a staff of 10 can feel just

disproportionate or inappropriate and I think the last challenge with this is that people can

sometimes get an unhealthy expectation oh, I am a volunteer staff member that means one

day, I will be a paid staff member and I don't think you want that expectation going around

in people's minds.

Recognise You are a boss

So decide who you want on the staff, then as you have a staff recognise a couple of key

things.

Recognise that once you have staff you become a boss. Now none of us joined the ministry

to become a staff boss. We joined the ministry to preach, to pray for people, to lead people

to Jesus, to disciple them, to build the church but we certainly didn’t join the ministry to run

a staff.


But as soon as you employ a staff member or have a volunteer staff member you become a

boss.

Church workplace is complex

The second point that you need to recognise a relevant to this is that church workplaces are

complex because once you were a Pastor but now you are a boss.

Church workplaces are different because you have, in that workplace, people who are your

family in Christ, you have people that you are in covenant relationship with through the

blood of Jesus, you have people that you are shepherding and pastoring and now you have a

workplace and you are the boss, you are the employer as it were and they’re the employee

and workplace industrial regulations and laws come into play immediately in that

environment.

So it’s important to call out that complexity. Name it, talk to your staff about it. This is

complex. We’re brothers and sisters in Jesus, I am your Pastor, I shepherd you but now

you’re on staff it just gets a bit more complicated because I am your boss.

I won't go around saying that but I am your boss and every now and then it doesn’t hurt to

actually say it to be honest with you. I think it doesn’t hurt people for them to hear you

actually say that.

Set the tone Once you have staff it is important that you decide and set the tone that you want in the

church office.

Do you want formal / informal? Do you want it corporate or do you want it community? Do

you want it relaxed or do you want it up tempo and chaotic? Do you want to silly or do you

want sensible?

What is the tone? Generally the tone of how the Pastor works with people will set the tone.

I was in a church staff training session this morning and the Pastor there is more

introverted, a wonderful leader, a great multi-site Church, good shepherding and a solid

church. And amongst all the personalities there was this one gorgeous, colourful,

extravagantly extroverted personality and I love that, that they can actually set a slightly

different tone that aligns with the tone you want around the office.


I am fairly outgoing and sanguine so I was able to set a bit of an upbeat tone but they was

always someone around our staff who also add that upbeat tone because I kind of like the

vibe of life, laughter, fun, a bit of frivolity, a lot of frivolity actually! I wanted people to enjoy

the workplace so decide your tone and set it.

Establish protocols for different contexts Here is another good tip with your staff is establish protocols for different contexts.

I love the teaching I heard many years ago from a great leader from Philippians Chapter 2

verse 25 where Paul calls Epaphroditus a brother, a fellow worker and a fellow soldier. They

are three different caps that you wear as a boss and people wear them in relation to you as

the boss and as the Pastor.

Brother / Baseball cap

First there is the brother which I kind of call the baseball cap. That family friendly cap that

you throw on when you go into a picnic and that is sort of we’re family. That’s a context that

you have and you have to work out a protocol for that context of just relating as brothers

and sisters, as a family of God together.

Fellow worker / Hard hat

Another word, another phrase that Paul uses about Epaphroditus is the fellow worker and I

relate this to the hard hat that is worn on construction sites to protect you and make sure

that you are well-dressed for the construction site.

In other words there is work to be done, there is hard labour to be done, we have to get the

church built, we have to advance the kingdom, we have to do all that we are meant to do

and that is another context that you have with staff and boss and staff together - a hardhat.

Let's get down to this thing and work hard.

Fellow solder / Battle hat

The third one is a fellow soldier and I think of the battle hat for the infantry soldier. A hat

that you wear to war.

This is where you as a team, you put the battle hat on to take ground, to take that

mountain, to defeat the enemy, to surge forward, to get momentum and move forward as a

church.


I think this is a good teaching actually pastors to take your team through, actually use this

whole MasterClass as training for your team, I think it would be good to watch as a staff and

pull it apart and check it out and go through the notes together.

But I think it is good to actually at least teach on Philippians 2:25 and talk about the

different protocols so that when I’m am having the discussion with you that is work related,

don't put your baseball cap on. Don't kind of pull the family card when I’m kind of digging

with you, I’m building with you, we’re talking about work and goals and objectives and

outcomes and things have to be done by a certain time.

Don't pull out the baseball camp and go oh we’re all just family, relax. No!

Don't pull out the battle hat when I just want to have family time, baseball cap time with

you.

So understanding these contexts and then working around protocols ways, to act in the

middle of all those different contexts.

Establish clear boundaries This is kind of connected to that last point, very connected really, establishing clear

boundaries about friendships and work relationships and generally the people you work

with, there’s going to be varying levels of friendships amongst that staff and primarily

remember it’s a working relationship.

That’s the commonality, that’s the glue that’s joined you together at that time, is a working

relationship and that working relationship may change. You may leave, they may leave and

the friendship at that time may also go to a whole different level of lower contact, maybe

lower connection so be very careful of ascertaining are we really friends or are we work

partners together.

Primarily I think you’re work partners but there are some people that you just link with so

strongly that you actually build a friendship above and beyond and outside that staff

workplace.

I find it tends to be more rare than common. I think it is generally my experience and the

experience I see Pastors enjoy and have is this workplace relationship, not so much it going

out to becoming best buddies because I think there are challenges around that.


So I think while it does happen and can happen, I think it is less common so it’s important to

establish clear boundaries around the fact of what is friendship and what is workplace and

this can be demanding emotionally, it can get a bit murky and requires a lot of good

communication to do it.

Hire slow I cannot talk about staffing unless I talk about hiring and here’s the one axiom about hiring -

hire slowly.

I made my worst hiring decision when I was emotionally depleted, tired, exhausted. We had

finished a huge building program and I had come out a year or so before from a significant

mental health battle and I hired someone that was the worst hiring decision I ever have

made in my life and I will never make a worse one than this, please Lord no!

If I had hired slower, I would have done better. Now it was fairly slow process but I didn’t

tick all the boxes I am going to tell you to tick. If I'd done so, I would never have hired this

person and it cost me a huge amount, not financially but emotionally and also in different

ways as well.

Hire slow is a good axiom to remember.

Internal or external?

When you are hiring someone think internal or external. Most of the hires that we’ve done

in our church have been from people within our congregation however we are a large

church and so have a greater pool to fish from but most of the internal hires have been

super successful in fact pretty well, I would say 90 to 95 percent of them.

Of external hires, I would say about two thirds of them have been successful. We’ve had a

worse fallout rate, a more difficult path with external hires than internal for various reasons.

I think sometimes it’s helpful when you are hiring internally that you realise the good thing

about hiring someone internally is that they already know the culture, they are already

embedded. They don't have to do a two year, and it is a two year process for someone

coming in from the outside to get embedded in the culture, the relationships, the history

and the style of the church.


Even if they come from a very similar church, I still think it’s a two year journey so obviously

the benefits of hiring internally are you don't have to do that two year journey. It’s basically

an on boarding into staff from being a volunteer and serving as a leader in the church and

you do shortcut that whole two year process however sometimes you can’t find the right

expertise internally and you have to go externally. In our church at various times we have

hired externally brilliant expertise to help us to levels we would not have gotten without.

So generally I hire externally for expertise I have not been able to find internally.

Big 3 C’s

1. Character

I want someone who is honest, has integrity, dependable, reliable, faithful, absolutely

someone who walks with Jesus, someone who loves people. All those character boxes

ticked.

2. I want to like them and I want them to like me

I want a chemistry to go well. It doesn’t mean I like everything they like, they don’t have to

like everything I like but I want a chemistry, I want to feel good when they‘re in the room.

Never hire someone that when you think of them walking in the room you “oh no”. Never

hire anyone like that even if their character is great and their competency is brilliant.

3. Seek competency, their skillset

Can they do the job?

Here’s the thing - character is harder to get into someone than competency. Character is

harder to build within someone than skills. Skills can be trained, can be developed. It is hard

work building character in someone so you want someone who is well formed in their

character.

Even if there’s a level of immaturity. A 25 year old’s not going to give you the maturity of a

55 year old so you’ve got work to do but the foundation's of honesty, integrity, track record,

reliability are there and in place and chemistry, well that either is or isn’t there.

You either kind of like that person or you don't. The liking could grow and hopefully won't

diminish but you either kind of go, oh I don't want to be around them. Don't hire someone

you don't want to be around - don't do that. Hire people that you want to be around.

Competency, even if their skill set is low, if they’ve got great character, excellent chemistry

you can build the skill set.


There is the big three to look for.

Tick all the boxes

And then tick all these boxes.

Interviews

References

Personality tests. There’s a personality test called The Big 5, Google it. That’s one of the best

ones for hiring.

Psych evaluations. What some churches are doing now for Pastors is psych evaluation.

Pretty full-on but I can understand that given some of the train wrecks we have had around

the globe related to well, I don't want to go to details, but do you know the sort of stories

that are out there. Train wrecks of Pastors that have damaged churches so badly.

Social media profiles. If you are hiring someone you are going to check that out absolutely.

Contract. Make sure they are fully informed of what they’re signing up for so they know

what you’re going to give them and they know what you expect that they are going to give

you.

Tick all those boxes in hiring.

If you can, and I will recommend this about some other things as well, talk to a large Church

about their hiring processes and pickup ideas from large churches. Large churches generally

nail this very well. They have excellent policies and processes and procedures for this.

Get those from a large church, adapt them to your size and utilise that. No need to reinvent

the wheel folks.

On boarding

Now when you have new staff, on boarding is critical. Have an induction step-by-step

process of policies, procedures, salaries, and entitlements, all the stationery, desk,

computers all that stuff.

Again go to a big church, get their staff handbook and adapt it to what you need. All they've

done about sick leave and annual leave and all those entitlements stuff. Don't try and create

your own if you are a small or medium sized church. Borrow someone else’s, adapt it, get

their permission, most large churches should be happy to give it to you, and set yourself up.


I think it doesn’t hurt today just to double check with a HR lawyer all the things that you are

putting into place so that you’re in sync with current legislation in your nation.

I think that is actually a smart move to do and there may be a large church who already does

that and can say yep this is all lawyer approved or good to go with IR law but you may want

to do your own checking on that.

If you’re a small church, I will probably say to you that you’re not going to have a problem

from the government you’re only going to have a problem from a disenchanted employee

who has left you.

The government's not going to waste their time and money checking up on small churches

to see what they do with HR. It is when someone leaves disgruntled that you may have a

problem with your process and policies so worth getting that check by a HR lawyer, I think.

Monthly staff meeting Here are some things to do with your staff.

Have a monthly staff meeting. I don't think you need to have a weekly staff meeting, I think

once a month is totally fine for staff.

In the staff meeting, those of you who know my process about meetings where people

gather together these are the things I would do

Good news - always have some good news.

Pray together

Have some thank you’s. Appreciation of what people are doing, highlight what people are

doing.

A bit of insider info. It might be a bit of vision casting but it is something that is coming up, a

bit of momentum adding thing.

Training – have some training that has takeaway value in the staff meeting.

There are the five things I would always have in a staff meeting.


Weekly staff lunch Have a weekly staff lunch. In fact I just finished a coaching session with a Pastor and I asked

him do your staff have a have a lunch every week they have to come to you? He said no we

don't, I said do you eat your lunch at your desk? Yes we do. I said don't do that, don't eat

your lunch at your desk. Go and sit somewhere else. It’s good for your mind to have a break.

But once a week pick a day when most staff are going to be there, the majority of staff are

there, and have a staff lunch for 30 to 45 minutes. No phones, phones left in a bucket or in

an office and just get in and talk, yarn and pretend it is 1985. No phone, no internet. Talk

and eat together once a week.

Once a week do that, make it mandatory, no one goes out everyone leaves their desk, no

one is so busy you can’t come and have relationship building lunch together.

Monthly supervision meetings Have a monthly supervision meeting with staff members.

Now if you have a staff of seven, I would say to your Pastor have four direct reports unless

some of those direct reports deal with the other staff. Don't have seven direct reports that

you’re having supervision meetings with. It is overload, it is too much. Cut it down to four, if

you can three.

Get other people supervising for you. It'll build them up and lift them up and develop them

at the same time

In a monthly supervision meeting make sure you have got a few things in that meeting you

can add other things but here’s four things I would always have.

Formal

Make sure its formal so you have note taking, so you have preparation, you’re prepared.

You have come to the meeting prepared to talk about the things that you want to talk about

and the employee has come with their things they want to talk about.

There is a formality. You’re not just having coffee. It’s about 45 minutes to an hour max

long, don't go any more than an hour, it is too long. Re book another time if you need to talk

through a matter at greater length but an hour is plenty.


6 x 6

Talk about the 6 x 6. If you’ve never heard of this concept, six things in six weeks is a really

good supervision method.

I want you as the employee, to achieve six things in six weeks. One of them might be listen

to three podcasts, another might be prepare a baptism service, and another might be build

a friendship with a non-Christian. Six measurable, specific, intentional, SMART goals. Things

that you can sit down and check on how they are going.

The employee can come up with a few, you can come up with a couple, you can tweak them

and you just keep that rolling through the year. It helps people stay on track and focus on

the important things.

Keep records

Keep records of the meeting. It’s okay for the employee to write notes from the meeting

and give you a copy. Keep that copy on file. Put it in the personnel file. Whether that’s

digital or whether that’s paper, whatever process, but keep a record of those formal

supervision meetings so that you can see themes that emerge and if you end up in the

scenario where you do have to fire someone, you have to retrench someone or put

someone off staff, if there has been performance that has been less than good you will have

a track record of it out of those supervision meetings

Keep very good records of those meetings and file them away for future purpose. But also

when you come to a meeting you might want to look back on the previous meeting notes to

see what actions, what commitments were made. You put those in the minutes or in the

record and then you are able then to pull them back up. Organise that, paper or digital,

whatever you prefer.

Annual review

Also in the monthly supervision meetings, sometime do an annual review. Keep it simple,

don't make it too long or to arduous. The 6 x 6 is the rolling review you really want well-

oiled and really happening.

The annual review again, go to a large church, find out what they do and adapt that process

to your size staff and team. Don't try and invent your own or develop your own annual

review.

I think the in the resources section there is an annual review report but it’s a bit old. It’s one

that I used in our church some years ago so use that if you want, but adapt it.


An annual review is a good way just to set up for the next year in terms, I think especially of

development because the 6 x 6 is where you are measuring performance over the year.

Regular coaching meetings Another thing I love to see Pastors doing is having regular coaching meetings. So every six or

seven weeks, I’d get with my key staff for thirty minutes. I’d get them to bring a notebook

and a pen and I’d tell them what topic do you want to develop in and off we’d go for thirty

minutes.

Q&A, downloading, exploring, questions, advising. Basically it was a mentoring. Not

supervision, not about their 6 x 6 or how they’re going with what they’re doing, not even

problem solving but where do you want to grow and develop, let me mentor and coach you.

I found that appointment brilliant. I loved doing that with leaders. Set that up so that you

are doing that with the your leaders.

Fire fast I can’t talk about staff and not talk about firing people. I’ve had to fire stuff over the years.

I've never found it pleasant, I've never found it enjoyable. It is something I never wanted to

do.

But here is my really simple process on this. Feel free to put some comments in but here’s

my one axiom. You heard it earlier, hire slow, fire fast.

And there’s a couple of things around that when I say fire fast so just don't away from this

MasterClass and sack someone that you don’t want on your team.

Go the second mile

Go the second mile. When I say fire fast, I mean after the second mile. Go the second mile

with staff because 1. You’ve invested a lot of time, a lot of effort, a lot of finance and

resources into the staff member. Don't just cut them off and say you’re done. Go the second

mile.

More training, more coaching, more mentoring. Maybe heighten supervision for a period of

time. See if you can get them to the place where you want them to be where they’re

currently not at.


Fulfil legal requirements

Fulfil all the legal requirements of the Industrial Relations law in your country. In Australia

we have strict Industrial Relations law, you can’t just sack someone. There has to be a

warning process, interviews, a whole process that must take place before you fire someone.

Of course there are instant dismissal procedures as well but if someone's just not

performing well, they haven't kicked a few goals in the last six months, there is a process

you must fulfil legally. Check that process and do it to the letter of the law otherwise you

may regret it.

I have been sued by a staff member, ex staff member, for unfair dismissal. Went to court, to

a tribunal, worker's insurance, oh my goodness it is a headache a nightmare you don't want.

And it worked out okay for us, we were absolved of guilt or anything wrong which was very

good. I knew it should be but it was good to get that tick of approval from the tribunal.

But make sure you cover all those legal requirements.

Short termination interviews

When you come to fire someone and it’s down to the interview where you ask them come

into my office and you sit down and say Joel, whatever your name is – Fred, Mary, Bill - we

have been on a long process and it is not working out.

I am afraid we are going to have to let you go. You are going to have to move off our staff

and we are going to pay you out the full notice that we are required to do and you may

want to add a sweetener of a couple extra weeks’ pay to that and basically you have a short,

to the point interview where you say I am not having a discussion with you about this

You keep it very low emotionally, low-key. The other person might get emotional but you

don't. We’re letting you go, you are finishing up on staff. You will be finishing up within two

weeks we will pay you a full notice out for X number of weeks and extra on that We want to

make this as easy, as pleasant as possible and this is not easy for either one of us

Script it better than what I’m doing at the moment, it’s been a while since I fired someone.

Script it, write it out, bring them into your office, have some notes on your lap, make it

short.

If they say why, well it’s related to we just don't think its working. The performance you’re

giving us is not what we want and if they say I'd rather resign, all right we'll accept your

resignation but I will need it in writing as soon as you go back to your desk print it out.

If you can’t put it in writing then we'll get you to sign this resignation letter that I have

already written where you’ll be terminated.


So you can have a bit of a bit of leeway there of getting them to resign rather than

terminating. You can work with them if the person is up for that. If they’re saying, I’m not

resigning then say well we are terminating your employment and we have been through the

warnings, we have ticked all the boxes etc.

But don't engage in a conversation. If they say give me another chance, say no we’ve gone

the second mile already. Don't enter into a negotiation, don't get emotive, and don’t make

accusations. Just make it short, to the point. Let them know they’re finishing, you will not be

discussing it further and then finish the interview, stand up and usher them out of the room

They may need a moment. I've left staff in the room and said do you want to gather yourself

for a while, if you want to go home early that ok. I tended to do this late in the day so they

could gather their things and go home early if they wanted to. I would also allow them to sit

in my office and I would go out for a walk and allow them just to gather themselves, gather

their thoughts and so on.

Because you still want to keep it as dignified as possible, as honouring as possible but let's

face it no one likes being fired and it’s a hard thing to do but do not enter into an emotive

long-term discussion on that.

There you go! Any questions or comments throw them below and we'll get into them.

Enjoy the journey Last point, enjoy the journey. I really did enjoy having staff over the decades of working with

staff and I have a staff member now. Erin is my Client Manager, she works with me, and

she’s a staff member. She’s also my daughter so it’s a pretty cool working relationship we

have. She’s brilliant!

Enjoy the journey of being with staff and having staff.

Well there you go a MasterClass on How To Get The Best Out Of Your Staff.

Put some comments down below of what you got out of this and how you enjoyed it.

Thanks so much for joining me in this MasterClass.

master lass: how to get the est out of your staff...vibe of life, laughter, fun, a bit of frivolity,...

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