706[COUNCIL.)

BiLL-flAMTE ACT AMENDMENT.Second Reading, etc.

The MINISTER FOR LANDS (Hon.4. Mitchell) in moving the second readingsaid: This is as small amendment madenecessary by the desire of the ColonialSec-retary to protect opossum. It reme-dies restrictions set up by the First Sche-dule. Under 'the Game Act a close seasonis provided which we find very difficult toenforee, because Linder the amending Actof 1907 the season is limited to the gamementioned in the schedule. We desire toprotect opossums to the fullest possibleextent, and we wish -to take power to makeit an offence for any per-son to have in hispossession the body of any game so pro-tected, or any part of the body, which ofcourse will include the skdn. It would besimple enough to add opossums to theschedule, hut it was thought advisable tomove the amendment in the form nowpresented to the House, hecause we shallnot only -be setting up this restriction, butalso we shall give the Railway Commssioner authority to refuse to carry anygame over the rail-wars during the closeseason. I hope the amendment will beaccepted. It is necessary. I move-

That the Bill be nowc read a secondtime.

Question put and passed.Bill rend a second time.Passed through Committee without de-

bate, reported without amendment; andthe report adopted.

Read a third time and passed.

House adjourned at 2.7 a.m. (Friday).

ltcoiselativec 'ouncti,-Friday, 3,rd February, 1.911,

P10sMCyd Actna Amen.rdment, "e, 706Roads, Sa .......... ..............Loan, 22.100,000, 3m., Con., Sa. _3706Constitution Act Amaendlment. Recoin., St . 371.2Licensing, Assembly's Message ... 8717. 8726, 87.85Parlianentay Allowance, 2a. (amendment six

months, Corn............3722Health, Assembly's Message.,Sc...........727Jury Act Amendment, Assembly's amiend.

ments *.. . . . 328Roman Catholic Church Property, all stages 8729Roads, Assembly's Mesage, Cjorn., St 729University Assembly's, MessAge, Corn. SR, ... 3780Mines and Machinery Inspection, R11 stages 3780oPermanent Reserves Rededication , all stages 3731Roadsp Closure, all stages .. . . .. 3731Cottemlos lisch Rates Validation, all stages ... $75

Bills returned from Assembly......... .... 717Motion; Water Supply. Rujifluch, price... -3732Adjournment, Comuphuentary remarks ... .. 85

The PRESIDENT took the Chair at10.30 a.m., and read prayers.

P'APER PRESENTED.By [be Colonial Secretary: Aninual. re-

port (tf the board of Governors of theHigh School for the year ended 30thJunle. 191.').

BILLS (2j-THITRD REAVDWCNG.1. Criminal Code Act Amendment.2. Roads.lietu-rned to the Legislative Assembly

with amendmnents.

BILL-LOAN, £2,100,000.Second Reading.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon.J. D. Connolly) in moving the secondreading. said: This Hill, as the titleindicates, is for the purpose of authoris-ing the raising of a stun of £2,100,000by loan for the construction of certainpublic works, and for other purposes andthe reappr-opriation of certain loanmoneys. Tile works include a number ofrailways which have already been anthior-ised daring tihe present session. It alsoincludes an amount oif £2007000 for rol-ling stock. I specially muention this itembecause hon. members in speaking on theEstimates last night drew attention to theshortage of rolling stock, and naturally

2706

[3 FEBRUARY, 1911.] 3707

as the railways increase so will morerolling stock be required. I think thatmost, if not the whole, of the rollingstock, is now under construction. TheSill also provides for works in connec-tion with harbours and rivers such asthe Fremantle dock, the Carnarvon har-bour works, and improvements to liar-hours and rivers generally. These works,or some of them, have already been auth-orised by Parliament. There is a fartheramount provided for the development ofgoldfields and mineral resources. Thisamount is £49,900, while for the develop-ment of agriculture, such as the provisionof abattoirs and cold storage, the sum of£329,100 is set down; for agriculturalimmigration £115,000 has been provided,while for the development of agriculturegenerally the amount is £122,000. Thenthere is a sum set down for the purchaseof the station "''Moola-boola" for abor-igines in the Kintberley district, £E20,000;for immigration generally £30,000, andpublic buildings £50,000. In. passing aLoan Bill of this description. I do notthink it is necessary to discuss it atany length. The policy of borrowing isnot in question. and moreover the Househa~s assented to a great extent alreadyto the policy, inasmuch as it has ap-proved of a number of works which areto be constructed out of loan, and nowit follows that we imust have the moneywith which to carry out these works.There is a'sum of £160,000 provided foradditions and improvements to openedrailways, which will include relaying.

Hon. M. L. Moss: Was not that workpreviously done out of reventin

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Whena line is relaid. that means practicallyreconstructing it. All the agriculturalrailway, s have been provided for.

Ron. M. L. Moss: WhatI does "'WonganHills to Mullewa. £15,000" mean? Thatline will cost more like half a million.

The COLOIAL SECRETARY: Thaitsum is all that will be required out ofthis loan. Before any further wvork isdone there will have to be a fnrtherauthorisation. Besides a good deal ofuinexpended loam money was passed in11we Loan Estimates Iasi evening. If

hon. members will compare the Loan Billwith the Loan Estimates they will prob-ably see an amount on the Loan Esti-mates that has already' been passed forthese works. We are not discussing theauthority' to borrowv. The money willhtave to be reappropriated in the LouamEstimantes. The information given inithe schedule contains the reasons forwhich the Government want authority toborrow the money. I do not think ther eis anyv further information that I eaueive to the House.

Hon. J. 'W. Kirwan: I see there is mi1item "Public Buildings, £50,000."

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thatsum includes a number of additions to theMidland Junction workshops, as well asmachinery. 1 have the full details, andif any further information is required Ishall be only too pleased to give it to hon.members in Committee. I move-

That the Bill be now read a second time.Ron. W. KTNGSMILL (Metropoli-

tan);: As I shall not have an opportunityof speaking on this Bill in Committee, Iwill take the present occasion of saying afew words. The Minister is right in say-ing that this is only an authorisation toborrow. It has however a certain moraleffect oil he Loan Estimates. The Min-ister has used that argunment before tosupport his Loan Estimates by sayingwhen an objection was raised on. the Es-timates that the item appeared in theLoan Bill. I have done -that myself. Theleader of the House is quite right in sy-ving that most of the proposed works -havereceived the assent of Parliament. Thereare some which have not, and I may bepardoned if I make short references toone or 4wo. There is item 41 referringto abiattoirs. cold storage. etc. Thegreater pad of this mone 'Y. I Understand,is to be spent on cold storage, and someof it has already bes, spent in sale yards.I venture to say that the matters of thesite of. the abattoirs, and the advisabilityof establishing cold storage works, andthe necessity for cattle yards, have neverbeen delfinitely settled, or at any rate suffi-ciently discussed by Parliament. I hopethe Colonial Secretary will use his in-flience with the Minister for Lands in

[COUNCIL.]

,order to get that Minister to reconsider hisattitude on this question. The Minister forLands bas been very lucky in the past.One never bears now the clamour that oneheard against dairy cows and importedsheep at one time. but I maintain that theestablishmen t of these freezing works forit lamb export trade yet to come is notwarrantted, andl even if it did exist I saythat the expenditure in this direction willat the present juncture be a wicked wasteof public money. I would like the leaderof the House to lay this aspect before hiscolleagues. I have done so myself, butthe attitude which that gentleman takesuip is not the right attitude for a member

ofa Government sitting iii opposition toa party, who mnight, indeed, be expectedto act as the Minister is acting. It is sur-prising to find such conduct on the partijf the present Government. Quite re-cently I introduced to the Minister forLands a private deputation, and the Min-ister in his reply admtitted that therewould be no lamb export for some yearsto justify the erection of these works,but he said that he was goipg on with theerection of them, and until that time ar-rives he intends that the works shall sub-sist by entering into competition withprivate people in the sale of ice. Nowthat is not a dignified thing for any (Toy-

erniment to do; yet I can assure theleader of the House that it -was the replyg iven by the Minister for Lands to aprivate deputation.

Hon. M. L. Moss: The Governmentare in combination with the other people.

Hon. W. XT&GSMILL: That makestheir position worse; they are combiningthe socialistic piractices of one party withthe corrupt capitalistic practices of an-other party. I am glad the Minister dis-claimed any influence which the passingof this schedule might have on the passingof the Loan Estimates, and I hope that bewvill inform his colleagues that one mem-ber of this Chamber at least entered anemphatic protest against the erection ofthese works.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (inreply) : I desire to correct an error whichI made in replying to an interjection by.Mr. Kirwan. The item for public build-ings is not quite what T stated; there is

to be £10,000 expended on the l'erthTechnical School: the completion of thePerth Secondary School will cost £9,000,and the extension of this building £12,000.In regard to the completion of this Par-liament House, it is the intention of theGovernment to allocate a sum of moneyfor the next three or four years so thatat the end of that time we may have thebuilding completed, and not left in itspresent unsightly condition.

Hon. Sir J1. WV. Hackett: What will itcosti

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Be-tween £50,000 and £60,000, I think.

Hon. Sir J. W. Hackett: Does that in-clude the loan?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Yes,but they have reduced the cost consider-ably.

Hon. Sir J. W. Hackett: I hardly be-liove that sum will complete the building.

Question l)It and passed.Bill read a second time.

In 'Committee, etc.Boin. AV. Kingsmnill in the Chair.Clauses 1 to 6-agreed to.First Schedule:Hon. T. F. 0. BRIAGE: What was

the meaning of the item "Southern Cross-Bullfinch railway £25,000"? He under-stood that the Government estimate was£E45,000.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thesum of £E25,00 was all thtistwas necessaryfrom this loan, the balance having beenprovided from the former loan.

Hun. R. 11. CLARKE: The scheduleincladed an amiount of £122,000 for de-vehopnicnt of agriculture. How was thatto he applied?

The COLONTAI SECRETARY: Thearnoutit was required for the developmentof agriculture generally. If the hon.membter would turn to the Loan Esti-mutes he would find that the sum in-eloded provision for. the erection ofgrain sheds, loans for the purchase ofwive netting, loans to vermin boards, andother expenditure necessary in the de-velopinent of agriculture, such as themaking of dams and roads.

Hon. E. M. Clarke: T ani not object-ing it) the item. hut I want definite in-

[3 FEBRuARY, 1911.] 30

formation as to how the money is to bespent.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Themoney would be spent in hundreds of dif-ferent ways.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: What did theitem ''Agricultural Immigration,£115,000," mean? He understood thatthe item was meant to infer that agri--cultural labourers were a desirable classof immigrants. This was a large item.and the Committee should have some ex-planation, as there was a further sum of£30,000 for "immigration generally."

Hon. M. L. MOSS: Both of these itemsfor immnigration were too small. Hewould not complain of the amount of theitems, because he thought that the bestinvestment the State could make was to-spend half a million of money to getpeople into the country. so long as wegot people of the right Sort and dlid notdeluge the State with wasters front out-side. The sparseness of our populationwas the country's greatest menace, andbie hoped that all this money would bespent and that the next Loan Bill wouldcontain a much larger item for the samepurpose. The State could absorb tentimes the number of immigrants whowere now coming in. He was informed

1wy a large manufacturer in Perth thata difficulty existed at the present timein getting artisan labour. One manu-facturer, he had been informed, had anorder for £900 worth of work to be com-pleted within three months, and the ordermeant a profit of £200 or £300, hut hewas faced with the difficulty of gettingskilled labour. It should be made knownto the world that not only agriculturallabour, but every class of labour wasscarce in this State.

The Colonial Secretary: It has beenmade known.

Hon. M. L. MOSS: The Government-were to be commended for their action.'The scarcity of artisan labour was agreat obstacle in the progress of theconatunity, and it should be known be-yond Australia that artisan populationcould be absorbed as well as agriculturalimmigrants. It would be a sound invest-ment for the State if half a million of

money was provided for immigration onthe next Loan Bill, because if we showeda desire to populate the country, millionsof money would come into the State forinvestment. The wages paid to-day inWestern Australia for labourers, arti-sans, and domestic servants were greaterperhaps than in ally other part of theEmpire, and the dearth of domestic ser-vants had become a serious problem inthe home. Expenditure on immigrationought to go hand in hand with a forwardpublic works policy, for, whilst largesums of money were being expended onpublic works, the Government were ina position to give the new arrivals workwhen they landed in the State.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Theremarks of Mr. Moss were very pleasingand were such us he thoroughly endorsed.The Government were quite alive to thenecessity of a vigorous immigrationpolicy and had] undoubtedly made a com-mencement in that direction. Up toabout twelve months ago the State wasonly receiving some 1,800 to 2,000 im-migrants a year, but at the beginning oflast year he had urged on the Govern-niont the necessity for devoting their at-tention to bringing in labour other thanexelusively agricultural labour- TheGovernment had approved of his sug-gestion. and reduced the steamer faresconsiderably, . The late Premier (SirNewton Moore) on his visit to Londonhad taken the matter in hand, with theresult that the State was now receivinga largely increased number of inmi-grants. We were receiving immigrantsto-day at the rate of about 12,000 a year.There was a suggestion from the Coto-mon wealth Government. which he be-lieved emanated from the Premier ofNew South Wales, that the States shouldcombine so as to get cheaper fares. Theproposal was to introduce something like40,000 immigrants a 'year, and this Statewould have been allotted perhaps 2.000or 3,000. It was not intended to haveanything to do with this proposal, be-cause it was hoped that we should beable to take 20,000 immigrants ourselveswithin a few years. We were to-day ab-sorbing at the rate of 12,000 immigrants

9709

3710 [COUNCIL.]

per annum, and the amount on the Es-timates covered that number per year.The reason why the item was termed''Giant to assist agricultural immigra-

to"was that our efforts were mainlydirected to granting passages to agricul-turists and farm labourers, and domesticservants. It went without saying thatthe policy was the right one. There wereassisted and nominated passages granted,and the difference in the terms was thatassisted immigrants had to pay from £2to £5 according to the accommodationthey required, but that nominated immi-grants were nominated by persons al-ready here. Although up to the 'yearending June last we had been receivingimmigrants both nominated and assistedto the number of 1,800 a yecar to-dayimmigrants were being nominated andwere coming out to families who hadbeen brought oul previously atthe rate of 2.500 to 3.000 ayear. That spcikv volumes for t hesuccess of the immigration policy that hadbeen adopted. The fares w'hieh the 0ov-eurnment paid were £12 for open berthsrunning up to £E14 for .3-berth cabins inthe steerage. The Government paid £10,aud the immigrants paid the balance. Adomestic servanit simply paid £2, and ifshe went into service immediately she gotbore the money was refunded. A farmlabourer had to pay £2 up to £4, accord-ing to. the accommodation, for a passageto the State. The Goivernment were pay-in.g £12. while the ordinary rate for thesepassages was £18. An important altera-tion had been made in the regulation thatfarm labourers and domestic servants badto have a certain capital. A domesticservant had to have £5. and a farmlabourer £10 before they were accepted.That was to ensnre that these peopleshould have something when they landedin the State. This was a serious block toobtaining good fan,, labourers, who werenot always able to command 10, and theyasked that the Government would waivethat condition, and the amount was re-dueed in the cae of domestic servants to£2, and in the case of farm labourers; to£5). Month after month the report of theLabour Bureau showed that although 3100

persons were wanted for the country only150 were able to be supplied. To give anidea bow the immigrants were being ab-sorbed, he might mention that at Christ-mas time when all work was stopped the"Armadale" arrived with 560 passengers,and the day after Boxing flay the Orientsteamer "Osterley" arrived with 200 pats-sengers-close on 800 passengers arrivingin a couple of days. Between that timeand the new year the German boat arrivedwith 150 passengers, and later on thesteamer "Rimutaka"l arrived at Albanywith 607, maeking a total of 1,600 passen-gers in 12 days. When members remnem-bered that up to Jane last we were onlyreceiving immigrants at the rate of 1,80a year, and in the midst of the Christmasmholidays when work was slack all theseimmigrants were absorbed as soon as theyarrived, it was a good sign. Our onlydifficulty to-day was getting passages forimmigrants. We were doing better thanthe Eastern States, and getting a betterclass of immigrant. When it was re-membered that these immigrants werecoming to a small 'State at the rate of1,500 in a few weeks, and if we did nothear of anyone being disappointed, itspoke well for the department that waslooking after them; and for the class ofimmigrant that was coming here. In orderto get over the difficulty, the Governmenthad retained a certain number of berthsin vessels. The Orient Company hadguaranteed 450 mvaximum every month,and there "'as a,, arrangement with theNord-flentsrher Lloyd Company. Aspecial charter had been made with theAustralind Company; they agreed toearry passengers at the same rate as theOrient Company. I lit was £12 per head,and had agreed to keep certain cool stop-aWze aveommlodatioi, for our fruit if wepxv them 300 immigrants every twomonths. Every two months for the nextthree years immigrants would arrive bythese boats at the rate of about 300 perboat. These boats could carry 600 pas-sengers. Already' 5,000 passengers were.booked by the Orient Company as a mini-mum. He had not booked the maximumof 7.000 by the Australind, but there wasa maximum of 3,600, that was the 300-

3710

[3 FEBRUARY, 1911.]

per month, but these boats could carry7,000 -within the period mentioned. Whilewe had only encouraged agricultural im-migration in the past, and labour for the-couutry, there was undoubtedly, as Mr.Moss had stated, a great dearth of otherlabour here to-day. These facts had beenmade known to the shipping agents inLondon by cable sent by the Premier, sothat people might know exactly the stateof affairs here.. If people wished to come,oat here and look for work, well and good,but we were not specially providing pas-sages for mechanics because there was notthat demand for them, but, if the workwas here, which undoubtedly it was, wecould make known the fact. The Gov-.ernment were not putting any obstacles inthe way of these people coming out-hereferred to carpenters andi mechanics. 1.fthey paid their, oiwn passages and becamegood citizens, then such persons couldnoniinate their families. If a nieehaniewas in work, and a good citizen, then hewould receive assisted passages. Tnworking on that system there could be nofailures. The Government intended netyea;, he hoped, to pass perhaps double theamount that was provided for this year.With all respect to what Mr. Moss badstated, lie did not think that we could ab-sorb 10 times the number of immigrantswhich we were at present receiving. Wemiust be careful and see that people wereproperly absorbed, and that they werecontented. There was no doubt that ifwork had been plentiful in the past, itwould be more so in the future. Parlia-ment had passed 600 miles of railwaysthis session, nil of which had to be builtquickly. We were selling land by hun-dreds of thousads of acres a year, and-each 1,000 acres meant two or three extramen being employed. These facts hadbeen made known in England, and we hadsaty number of applications made, and agood choice of mnen who wished to emi-grate. When the shipping arrangementshAd been completed, it was to be hopedwe should be able to add materially tothe rate of bringing these people out.

Hon. -31 L. MOSS: The few minutesdevoted to the discussion of the subjecthad given a great deal of information to

the country at large. He was obliged tothe Minister for the full statement he hadmade in this connection, and he hoped thepolicy which the Minister had outlinedand which simply indicated that we wereon the threshhold of the introduction ofa large number of people into WesternAustralia, would be continued. The onlystatement he (Mr. Moss) made, whichperhaps was a stretch of the imagination,was that he thought we could absorb tentimes the number of people who werecoming here; but his anxiety was to spurthe Government on to better efforts. Wh ilein England last year he had ample oppor-tunity of knowing what good had beendone by Sir Newton Moore in this direc-tion, and Sir Newton Moore was entitledto every credit for the good work whichhe undertook, and which had been setforth in the elaborate report which waslaid on the Table of the House. WhenSir Newton Moore went back as AgentGeneral it was to be hoped he would pur-sue the same course of conduct, and ifthe Government gave him ample meansto carry out the policy which the ColonialSecretary had outlined, it would be goodfor the future prosperity of the country.

Hon. E. M. CLARKE: When membersg enerally approved of the policy of theGovernment it should be absolutelyknown. Therefore he (Mr. Clarke) tookthis opportunity of saying that he heartilyapp~roved of the policy of the Govern-ment in this direction. He had not askedthe questions in any cavilling spirit, buthie rejoiced to find that they gave theMinister an opportunity of making aspeech with regard to the policy of theGovernment at the present time. Hon.nierbers should let it be understood thetthey thoroughly approved of the 'policyof the Government in this regard.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: It was not inany hostile spirit that he had asked aqluestion concerning these items; on r'aecontrary. he had always been strongly infavour of the encouragement of immigr-a-tion, and even if this vote were very InL.!Ilarger than it was, it wouild have hisheartiest approval. The miost importantquestion iii Western Australia to-day washow to fill the vacant spaces. He Was

3712 [COUNCIL.]

glad to see this vote included, and hehoped the success that would attend t'eexpenditure of this money would justifythe Ministry in increasing the amount 'nfuture.

Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM: Fromtime to time we had seen statements inthe Press that the Government intendedto erect freezing works at Wyndham.Was any provision made in the Estimatesfor that purpose?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Therewas an amount set down for ahattoir-,but he did not think any substantialamount was included for the Wyndhamfreezing works. Probably there was asmall amount for the purpose of investi-gations, but no substantial amount wasset down, because the project was only iuits initial stages.

Hon. 'Sir E. HI. WTTK lNOOM: Thequestion had been put because if the Gov-ernment were not going on with the workit might be that there were others pre-pared to do so.

The COLONIAL SECItETARY: TheGovernment bad no desire to enter intothis work if anybody else would do it.

Hon. D. 0. GAWLER: There wasan amount of £151,500 shown as beingfor discount and flotation expenses: wasthis amount for this purpose alone? Itseemed, large.

The COLONIAL SECRETARYWhile not quite certain about it, he wasof opinion that it included other amountsalso. He would probably be able toget; the information later on.Inrgdto immigration, he was very pleased tohear the remarks, made concerning- theGovernment policy, more particularly ashe had taken a. deep interest in this him-self. While everyv care was taken in theselection of immigrants, the public weresometimes prone to point to an occa-sins? failure. If any lion, mnember wentto England and selected 12,000 per-sons,would it be likelyv that hion. membercould guarantee that there wonic not beone per cent, of failures; amiong them?Every care was taken of the imumigrants;when they arrived theyq were niet at theboat, and free board and residence wassuipplied for three days. and for another

week at a nominal price. A record waskept of where they all went to, and inregard to domestic servants a specialmatron attended to them and kept intouch with them after they had gone totheir respective situations. If lion, mem-bers would do their best to assist VieUorernt in settling these people inthe country, if all would do a little inthat direction,' as was the practice inCanada, the success achieved would haeven greater.

Schedule put and passed.Preamble, Title-agreed to.Bill reported without amendment, and

the report adopted.Read a third time and recturned to the

Legislative Assembly.

BILL--CONSTITUTION ACT AMEND-MENT.

Recommittal,On motion by Hon. J. F. CULLEN,

Bill recommitted for the purpose of re-considering- Clause 2.

In Committee.Clause 2-Amendment of 68 Vict., No

19, a. 15:Hon. J. F. CULLEN moved an ain-

eudmen t-That the word "fifteen" its line 2 tQf

Paragraph (b) be struck out and"1seventeen pounds ten shillings" in-serted in lieu.

The second reading had been passed bya statutomyv majority, but several membershad expressed themselves to the effectthat as [he clause had not been amendedin Committee in the direction they re-quired they would not vote for the thirdreadig. It was very important that theBill -lhould pass and pass in a reason-able form; lie thought hon. memberswould agrmee that a reasonable form was.this compromise of £V7 10s., which wouldbring our position into line with that o)fthe South Australian Chamber.

Hen. J, W. Langsford: Will this en-sure the passing of the Bill?

Ron. J. F. CITLLEN: It was under--sodthat it would.

The CHAIRMNANX: When placed inthe original section the amendment woul&l

3712

[3 Faauny, 1911.] 11

Riot make senuse, because the wvord"pounds" would still stand, and, takenin conjunction with the words of the ex-isting section, the amendment would read,,seventeen pounds ten shillings pounds."1

Hon. J. F. CULLEN: In that casehe would alter his amendment to read,"seventeen" instead of "seventeen poundsten shillings."

By leave the amendment altered ac-cordingly.

The COLONIA-L SECRETARY: Theamiendmnent would be acceptable for thereason that although the Bill had beenpassed by a statutory majority on thesecond reading, that majority had onlybeen obtained by the votes of certain lion.members who had stated distinct]ly theywould support an amendment in Com-mittee, aind that if the amendment werenot carried they would vote against thethird reading. Therefore it was clearthat without a compromise the third read-ing would not be passed. He had re-frained from putting the third readingimmediately following on the Committeestage for the reason that in the circitn-stances it would have been suicidal. Hefelt disappointed at lion, members refus-ing to accept the £16, but if they wvouldaccept the £17 lbe wvas prepared to with-draw opposition to it rather than losethe Bill. It was a substantial reduction,and the Government would hesaifewith it.

Hon. C. A. P1J3SSE: With others hehad voted for the second reading on thedistinct understanding that he would notsupport the third reading unless theamendment was carried. The amendmentwas not carried, but it was a pity to losethe Bill; and as a spirit of Compromisewas abroad, members might well acceptMr. Cullen's amendment, especially as itwas on all fours with the provision inSouth Australiat

Hon. M. L. MOSS: The compromisewas discussed when the House was notsitting, and the amendment would be car-ried, but he was no party to the comn-promise. He bad made pledges for yearsto keep the qualification at £25, and wouldnot go back on those public pledges. Atthe same time he would not divide thecommittee an the point.

Ron. V. HAIMEESLEY: It was a mis-take to reduce the franchise. He wouldadopt the saute course as ]%r. Moss, andnot do anything likely to call for a divi-sion. He knew how to accept defeat, andhaving been defeated members shouldmake all effort to meet the desires of themajority.

Hon. C. SOAlIMERS: There was noneed to reduce the franchise. Hie hadpledged himself to support the presentqualification, but he also would not dividethe Committee on the point. Memberswould live to regret giving way at all.Fixing it at £E20 lie thought was quitesufficient compromise.

lon. S. STUBBS: Having pledgedhimself to have the franchise reduced to£1I5, he did not intend to go hack on hisword. At the same time he would notdivide the Committee. No member of theHouse would suffer by reducing the fran-chise. A spirit of compromise shouldmeet the case; and if another Chamberwould accept the amendment, it would bein the interests of the State.

Hon. R. LAURIE: It was shown thatthere was a majority in the Chamber infavour of reduction, and that being thecase he would not divide the Committeeon the question.

Hon. J. W. LANGSF'ORD: One couldadmire the spirit in which members weretreating this question in this give andtake way.

Geon. M. L. Moss: Allt give and no take.Hon. J. W. LAN'GSFORD: For many

years to come this vexed question wouldnow be definitely settled.

Hon. M. L. MOSS did not desire to bemisrepresented on the point. He woulddivide the Committee if he thought hecould defeat the amendment, but the spiritof compromise prevalent prevented himfrom securing a majority.

Ron. J. W. KIRWAN: It would havebeen much preferable had the Governmentstuck to the Bill as originally introduced.The fact that the Bill was passed by theAssembly almost unanimously, was a clearindication, especially on the eve of a gen-eral election, as to the feeling of the coun-try, and the Government should not haveagreed to the compromise no matter

3713

3714 [COUNCIL.]

whether the Bill would be lost. Theycould have adopted a course that wouldensure the Bill being carried.

Hon. J. F. Cullen: How?Hon. J1. W. KIRWAN: The Legisla-

tive Council of this State was a partyHouse. There was no Legislative Cham-ber which could be more regarded as apatty House.

The CHAIRMAN: The hion. memberwas rot speaking to the amendment.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: The Govern-ment could have induced the Chamber toaccept their proposal, as there were onlytwo members in the Council returned asdirect nominees of the Opposition and thegreat bulk of members represented theother party.

The CHAIRMAN; The lion. memberis digressing.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: The principleinvolved in the amendment was the wholeprinciple of the Bill, and one could claima little latitude in discussing this, eventhough it might be expressing views con-trary to the views of the Chamber. Hadthe Government let it been generallyknown it was% the desire of the party towhich they belonged to adhere to the Billin its original form, without a doubt theGovernment could have got the Billthrough. in view of the fact that therewere only two pledged members of theOpposition party in the Council. On arecent occasion party lines were clear anddistinct in the Council.

The CHAIRMAN: The lion, member ismaking a speech which would almost havebeen out of order on the second reading.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: In objecting tothe acceptance of the compromise, onecould urge that the Government could havegot the Bil through in its original formif they desired, with such a huge majorityfor their party in the Chamber.

Hon. A. G. JENKINS: One could con-gratulate the Government on the courseadopted. No doubt several members andmany of the general public would be gladto see the Bill defeated. The spirit ofcompromise was the best to adopt. TheGovernmenit could not have got the Coun-cil to pass the Bill with the retention ofthe words "fifteen pounds," and no one

knew it better than Mr. Kirwan. We nowproposed to give practically all that wasasked by another place, and the Govern-maent were to be congratulated on havingaccepted the amendment rather than losethe Bill. There was no doubt that thereduction of the franchise would satisfyeveryone who had the best interests ofthe House at heart, and the people whobad been clamnouring for the reductionwould be satisfied. The best thing of allwas that it would remove from party poli-tics, at any rate if we could believe themanifestos issued, the continued cry therewas against the Legislative Council be-cause it would not reduce its franchise.The Government were to be congratulatedon the fact that rather than risk the lossof the Bill they had agreed to a com-promise of £17.

Hon. J. F. CULLEN: The illogical at-tempt on the part of Mr. Kirwan to showthat the Legislative Council was a partyHouse was strongly resented by him.

The CHAIRMAN: The hion. memberwas out of order in pursuing that fine ofargument. The question before the Com-mittee was that the word "fifteen" bestruck out.

Hon. J. F. CULLEN: How could theHouse allow such a statement as thatmade by Mr. Kirwan to pass.

The CHAIRMAN: If the hon. memberobjected to the statement he should haveraised his objection at the time.

Hon. J1. F. CULLEN: Then it wouldhave been called disorder.

The CHAIRMAN: Not in the least;the lion. member could have risen to apoint of order.

Hon. J. F. CULLEN: At any rate theChairman might allow him to completethe sentence he had begun. MT. Kb-wanstated that because two of the membersrepresenting themselves as belonging toone party were in the House, thereforeall the other miembers were, perforce, anopposing party.

Hon. J1. IV. KIRWAN: On a point oforder. Was the hion. member in order instatingr whant hie (Mr. Kirwan) had notsaid.

The CHAIRMAN: Certainly not.

3714

[3 FE:BRL'ARY, 1911.])7

Hon.. J. F. CTILLEN: Mr. Kirwan wastrying to slip out of a position which hewas now ashamed of.

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: Was the hon.member in order in accusing him of en-deavouiring to slip out of a position?

The CHAIRMAN: Certainly not. Hehad already ruled that the discussion wasout of order, and lie would ask Mr.Cullen to confine himself to the questionbefore the Committee, the striking out ofthe word "fifteen."

Hon. J. F. CULLEN: Then he wouldreserve his further remarks for the thirdreading.

Ron. B. C. O'BRTEN:- As one whobad been interested and had always advo-cated the reduction of the franchise ofthe Legislative Council, he appreciatedvery much the action of hon. members inaccepting the compromise. He had foughtstrongly for the reduction to £15,' but inorder that the Bill might not be jeopar-dised he 'would cheerfully accept the re-dnction to £17. This amount would bringus more into line with the franchise of theLegislative Councils in the E4'astern States.There had been a great fight for a num-ber of years for the reduction of the fran-chise, and after all, polities was alwaysa game of compromise. The question ofa reduction had been before that Chamberfor many years, and it must be pleasing tothe two or three hon. members who werepresent in the Chamber, and who had foreight Or ten years advocated the reduction,to find that at last that reduction hadbeent brought about. Re felt sure thatthe House had not lost any prestigethrough the reduction but rather that itwould go up in the estimnation of peoplemore than 100 per cent.

Hon. T.> H. WIDING: The provincehe represented returned him as being- Op-posed to a reduction of the franchise, andhe would not be a party to the reductionon this occasion. He was sorry to thinkthat the -Government had taken a plankfrom the platform of another party andendeavoured -to put it on the statute-book .In this matter the Government 'had hadthe assistance of the Opposition, and theyhad been pressed to bring about a reduc-tion. Hlis opinion was that there was nonecessity for it, and that in a State like

'Western Australia, whlere wages werehigh and where the possibilities weregreat, any man could acquire property ofthe valLue Of £100, or be in the positionto pay a rental of 10s, or 12s. weekly.The result showed how hard the questionhad died.

Hon. F. MeLARTY: Having on theprevious day expressed his opinion that£E20 would be a fair amount and that hewould be agreeable to a reduction to thatsum, he desired now to say that as it wasthe wish of the majority that a compro-mise should be made he would accept it.It was a very good compromise, and hecongratulated the Government on havingaccepted it. If the Gover-nment had notdone so there would not have been anyehajice of the Bill being carried.

Hon. W. MARWICK: The Govern-ment were to be congratulated on theirattitude with regard to the reduction ofthe franchise. He was returned on apledge that lie would support the liberal-isation of the franchise, and the action

of the Governmenut showed to the countrytiat they were in earnest with regard tothe matter. In the countr" districts andin the goldfiel-dls especially the people haddeclared that the Government had nowish to bring about a reduction.

The CHAIRM.AN- The intention ofthe Government hadl nothing to do withthe striking out of the word "fifteen."

Rein. W. MARWICK: The strikingout of "fifteen" and the substitution of"~seventeen" would receive his support,and he was sure it would meet with theapproval of the majority of the peoplein the State.

Hon. T. F. 0. BRTM.AGE: The Bill asit was printed would have suited verywell. After ailt the amount of £15 was avery fair one. The question had been be-fore the country for a considerable time.There should not have been any reasonfor altering the Bill.

Amenidment (as altered to £17) put,and a division taken with the followingresult:-

AyesNo0es

.222

Majority for . .. 20

3715

3716 [COUJNCIL.]

Han. Ea. M. Clarke, Hion. ft. D. McKenzieH~On. J1. D. Connoly Hon- E. MetartyHon. J. F. Call.n HOD. M. L. Mow,lHon. J. M. Drew Hon. B. 0. O'BrienHOn. J. T. Olowrey HOD. C. A. PiesSirSJ. W7. Hackett HOn. C. SommersHon. V. Hawnersley HOD. S. StubbsMo.. A. G. Jenkins Hon. T. H. WildingHOn. 3. W7. Langslord SirE. H. WittonoomHon. R. Laurie Finn. D. 0. CawlerMon. W. L.wick (Teller).Hon. C. McKenzte

'Noios.Hun. J. W. Kirwan IHon. T. F. 0.rimage

Amendment thus passedi.Bill again reported with a further

amendmen t.The COLONIAL SECRETARY

moved-'that the repoQrt be adopted.

R-on. M. L. MOSS: This was the lasttime, he hoped, when he would detaintine House on this question, and hewould not have risen but for the assey-tion that a party vote had been recorded.It was almost an insutl for any memberof this House to he accused of sittinghere bound or fettered in any way' byparty pledges. In fact the Government'spolicy this session, and for years past,had been subjected to every scrutiny.He had voted on this question throughoutin accordance with public pledges, andin the last division lie had been obligedto vote in the way he had, simply be-cause if it was the will of the Committeethat the qualification, was to he reduced,be would sooner see it made £17 than £15).In behalf of members generally he pro-tested strongly against the accusation ofparty influence. When this Governmentwere succeeded by another Government,members would be prepared to give theirpolicy a fair trial and the same amountof scrutiny and criticism as had beengiven to the proposals of the present Gov-ernment. It was absurd to say that thedivisimns in this House were conductedas they were in another place. Every'division in another place was onl partylines, but here every member voted ab-solufe "lv indlependently.

Houn S . W. IRfWAN: The remarksmade by Mr. Moss had reference to a

statement whbich he (Mr. Kirwan) hadmade during the Committee stage thatthis House was a party House. He didnot wish that that remark should in anyway be taken as an insult to membersof the Chamber, and he did not thinkit should be taken as such. The mnem-bets of a House occupying a very muchhigher standing in the British empirethan this Chamurber, the House of Lords.did not get offended or regard themselvesas insulted if they were accused of beinga party House. In that Chamber, aswas well known, there were 700 (or 800Peers, of whom probably 150 belongedto the Liberal party, whilst the otherswere recog-nised as belongint: to theUnionist or Conservative party. Theyhad an Opposition leader as well a, aleader of the House.

The Colonial Secretary: What has allthat got to do with this question!

Ron. J. W. KIRWAN: The point wasthat the House of Lords, occupying asimilar position to this House, was recog-nised as a party House. This House wasintended by virtue of the property quali-fication to represent property holders.The House of Lords was also intended torepresent those who had property andprivileges and while that Houseacknowledged itself to be a partyHouse, he utterly failed to see how anymember of this Chamber could regardit as an insult to say that the Councilalso was a party House. The reasonwhy he made that statement was thatwhile there were only two direct nomi-nees of a particular party in the Chami-ber, the House had come to be regardedas a non-party House simply because themembers nearly all belonged to the oneparty.

Hot,. Sir E. H. Wittenoom: Onl a pointof order I desire to state that f belongto no partv in the House at all.

The PRESIDENT: I wish to point outthat T looked upon the speeches of Mr.Moss and 31r. Kirwan as personal ex-planations; but I think they are goin~gbeyond the hounds of Parliament arvpractice in niaking those personal ex-plannotions it such length.

3716

[3 FEBRUARY, 191.1.]377

Hon. J. W. KIRWAN: Of coursemembers would accept Sir Edward Wit-tenoomn's assurance that he was not aparty man, and no doubt he and otherinenmbers were non-party representatives.Personally be had been returned as anindependent, and he supposed be Couldbe regarded in that light as a non-partyman. He had been speaking of the Housegenerally, and did not intend that anymember should take his remarks to him-self. Certainly he did not think that hisremarks should be taken as an insult,when the House of Lords was recognised,by the fact of having a leader of theOpposition, as being a party House.

Hon. R. LAURIE: To the remarks ofMr. Kirwan that the Government couldif they desired force anything throughthe Chamber, he took the very strongestexception. Members should resent anystatement that they could be coerced intoanyv line of action which the Governmentchose to take.

Question put and passed; the reportadopted.

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the Bill be nou; read a thirdtrute.

Ho,,. W. KINGSMILL: The state-ment which he had made on the secondreading that it was his intention to sap-port a reduction of the franchise to £20had been made in all seriousness, buthe found that other members who hadalso said that had only spoken jocularlyand did not mean what they said. Heon the other ]land had been in earnestwhen, he had said that if the franchisewas reduced below £20 he would not votefor the third reading. That was theattitude he intended to take up now.

Question put, and a division taken,wit], the following result-

AyesNoes

Majorit'v for

Ho.. T. F.U. BringeMon. E. Mi. ClarkeHon. J. D. ConnollyRan. J. F. CullenHon. J. M. DrewHon. D. G. flawierHon. J. . OloweeySir J. W. HackettHon. A. G. Jenkins,Hon. J. W. Kirwan

Hon. W. KitngsowiUHon. R. LaurieHon. hL L. MomHon. C. Sommers

Ayes.Hon. J. W. LangsfordHo.. W. MarwickHon. R. D). McKenzieHon. E. MetartYHon. B. C. O'BrienHon. 0. A. PiesMon. S. StubbsSir E. H. WittenoomsHon. C. McKenzie

(Teller).

None.

Hon. T. H. WildingHon. V. Hamersisy

(Teller).

Question thus passed.The PRESIDENT: I certify that this

Bill has been carried, in accordance withSection 73 of the Constitution Act, 1889,by the statutory majority required.

Bill read a third time and returned tothe Legislative Assembly with an amend-ment.

H~lJS (6)-RETURNED PROM THEASSEMBLY.

1. Fertilismr and Feeding Stuffs ActAmendment (without amendment).

2. Cemeteries Amendment (withoutamendment).

3. Game Act Amendment (withoutamendment).-

4. Fisheries Act Amendment (withoutamendment).

.5. Fremantle Harbour Trust ActAmendment (without amendment).

61. Jury Act Amendment (with amend-ments).

BILL- *LICENSd NG.Assembly's Message.

The Legislative Assembly having de-clined to make several Amendments re-quested by the Council, also having madecertain amendments with modifications,the same were now considered.

19 it Commnit tee.6 Hon. W. Ringsimill in the Chair.

- No. 3. Clause 6, line 21 of page.-13 Strike out "one-tenth" and insert "one-- fifth":

3". 17

718[COUNCIL']

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the request be not pressed.The Council bad sent down 150 amend-meats and most of thema bad been made.This amendment provided for the penaltybeing increased from one-tenth to one-fifth. It was not an important matter.

Question passed, the amendment notpressed.

No. 4. Clause 8, Sabiclause 2.-Strikeout all the words after "persons" in linetwo of subelause and insert "to be ap-pointed from time to time by the Gov-ernor";

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thisrequest dealt with a much bigger question,it related to the constitution of the licens-ing courts, around which a good dealof discussion centred when the Bill wasbefore members. There were a goodmany amendments following relating tothe one matter. It was a question whetherthe court should be nominative or elective.As the Bill came before members twvomembers of the court were to be electedwhile the chairman was to be the residentmagistrate. The Council had carried anamnendment tMat the three members of .'hecourt should be nominated by the Gov-ernor. Because, after all, it could scarcelyhe considered a judicial body. It was,rather, a body appointed to carry out thewishes of the p~eople as expressed at Lhelocal option polls. He did not think anygreat harma could be dotne by giving thissystem a trial. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.Ron. M. L. MOSS: While prepared to

concede a good deal in order to get theBill through, lie was not prepared to giveway on so large a principle as this. Hedid not propose to repeat the argrumentspreviously, given by him, but lie hopedlion. memibers would see thle %visdoni ofmaintaining and enforcing their opinion

Hon. C. SOAD~IERS: It was to behoped the Committee would adhere totheir previous decision. To 'New Zealandthe elective system had given rise to ma 'yscandals. The principle was a vicious 3ne,if we initiated it here we would next haveit in vogue in connection with our judicialbenches.

Hon. A. G. JENKINS: For his part heagreed writh the views of Mr. Moss. Inthe event of our disagreeing on this pointcould the Assembly then ask for a con-ference, or would it be for us to ask for aconference if we desired it?

The CHAIRMAN: Whichever Cham-ber was in possession of the Bill at thetime the disagreement arose would ask fora conference.

Question put and a division taken wvithtihe following- result:

Ayes . .. . .. 8Noes . . . .11

Han'Hon.Hon.Hon.Bon.

Hon.Hon.Hon.lion.

Mon.

Majority against

J. D. Connolly Hon.J. P. Cullen HonJ. At. Drew, SirJ. W. LangafordW. Marwick

NOS.E. M4. Clarke Hon.D. G. Gawler, Hon.

V. Haubereley Hon.A. G. Jenkins Non.R Laurie HOD.E. MeLarty

3

R. D. McKe..zieB. C. O'Brien

B. H. Wittenon(Teller).

M4. L. MossC. A. PleaseC. SommiersS. StubbsT. H. Wilding

(Teller).

Question thus negatived. The ame'id-went pressed.

No. 3. Clause S : Strike out Sub-clauses 3, 4, and 5:

The COLONhIL SECRETARY: Thesewere mnerely consequential. He moved- -

That (hrl amendmnent be pressed.Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM~: If the

Chairmlan would allow him he would ex-press regret that he had not been presenta few minutes ago. when the Committeewere discussing the question of nominatedas against elective benches. Although inthe first place he had proposed the amend-ment for the nominative bench instead ofthe elective bench, lie had found1( aftercareful consideration there were good rca,sons for changing his opinions on the sub-ject. ]It wvas under these circumstanceshe had on this occasion voted against theproposal. He did not give way one atomiii regard to the application of the systemto any bench of a judicial character. Hewas totally against that; but these boardswould be of quite a different character,and be had found there was a general

3718

[3 FEBRiLARY, 191-1.] 31

feeling that an elective bench would prob-ably be an advantage to the cause of tem-perance. He did not believe that himself;he thought in all probability it wouldoperate the other way. At all events alarge section of the people anticipated itwould offer this advantage and underthese circumstances he had voted as he-did.

Question passed ; the amendmentpressed.

No. 6.-Strike out Clauses 9 to 16 in-eliusive:

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the amevdmet be pressed.Question passed : the amendment

pressed..No, 62.-Clause 95: Strike out this

celause:SThe COLONIAL SECRETARY: The

celause provided that a licensee should havethe custody of his license. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.

Ron. M. L. MOSS: On this occasionbhe would support the Minister, although-he had previously given his reasons why'he thought the clause should come out.

Question put and passed: the amend-eneni not pressed.

No. 6.-Clause 98, Subelause 2, line14: Strike out "two pounds" and insert"for a first offence ten pounds, for anysubsequent offence thirty pounds."

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thisdid not involve any principle; it wasonly as to details of the ifines. Hemoyed-

That the requested amendment be notpressed.

Question passed; the amnendment notpressed.

No. 79 (consequential) not pressed.No. 1Th.-Clause 1,59, Subelause I, line

-1, strike out "supplied or":The COLONIAL SFYCR RTARY: If

the 'words "Supplied or" were omitted itwould be impossible to prove the sale ofliquor in these unregistered clubs. An-other place had -insisted on the retentionof the words. It would be for the betterworking of the Act. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.

Hon. 31. L. MOSS: This would meanpenalising a person for keeping a bottleof whisky in his locker and treating hisfriends. If we did not strike out thewords it would press very bard on smallcricket and bowling clubs. We shouldpress the requtest.

Question put, and a division taken withthe following result.-

Ayes . . .

Noes .. . . 9

Majority against . IAvss.

Hon. J1. D. Connolly Hon. R. D. McKon=ieHan. J. F. Cullen Hon. B. C. O'BrienHon. J. M. D3raw Hon. A. 0. JoklInM

Ho J.. W. Lapgord (TeficriP.Hon. C . McKenzie

NOES.

Ron. E. U1. Clarke Ran, 0. Seminerslion. V. Hamersier Hon. T. H. WIdIlogHon. HL Laurie Sir E. H. WittenocrnLHon. 0. MoLarty lHen. B. StubbRHon. 51M. L. Moss (Teller).

Question thus negatived. The amend-ment pressed. ueas ,ln

N.114.-Clause 159, ueas1,ln2, strike out "supplying or":

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Al-though this was on the ]ines of No. 113it was an amendment another place would,undoubtedly, not agree to. It opened thedoor too widely to the illicit selling ofliquor. It must be remembered that lawswere administered in a reasonable way.and there would be no prosecution in a6ease such as that instanced by Mr. Moss.He moved-

'That the amendivent be not pressed.Hon. M1. L. MOSS: In plain English, if

one was liable to a penalty for supplyingliquor it would prevent a person fromkeeping whisky in his locker on an occa-sion, say, of a cricket match, and treatinghis friends. The Bill could be lost ahundred times before he would agree toallow the words to be retained.

Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM: Onecould not understand the opposition ofanother place. The deletion of the wordswould not lead to sly-grog selling.

The Colonial Secretary: I am certainit Will

Hon. C. SOMMERS: The inclusion ofthe words would debar country race clubs

3719

3720 [COUNCIL.]

from entertaining visitors with refresh-ments. However, there was no desire tolose the Bill over a trivial amendment.

Hon. V. HAMERSLEY: If we ae-cepted what another place desired itwould not help the -temperance cause, it-would merely force people to purchaseliquor. The retention of the words wouldinflict a .hardship in country race clubs.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Mem-hers did not seem to realise the positionon the previous amendment, but thisamendment ought not to be looked uponas consequential. Even with the omissionof the same words in the previous amend-ment the clause would not be so muchaffected, and, if necessary, there could bea recommittal.

Him. M. L. Moss: If there is a mis-understanding take another vote.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Sev-eral radical requests were made whichfound acceptance from the Assembly, andwe might deal with this in the same spiritof compromise. No matter how smallclubs were they could obtain a club license.There were no prosecutions in the past,though the law was the same for caseslike those mentioned by hon. members,and there was no reason why they shouldoccur in the future.

Sitting suispended from 1 to 2.15 p.m.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: TheCommnittee, it was to be hoped. wouldnot insist on this amendment, becauseif they did so it would be fatal to theBill. Hon. members would see how dif-ficulty it wvas to prove a sale, but it wasnot so difficult to prove the supply.

Hom. J. V. DREW: Ron. membersmight be referred to Clause 137, whichapplied to the premises of unregisteredclubs. We wanted to find oult what wasan in registered clubi, and we git (ihedefinition that it meant a cluib whichrequired under the Act to be registeredbut whliich was itot registered. Ac (-ibto be registered imust comply' with thleconditions, and they were conditionswhich no) spoiling club or boating clubwould be asked ito comply with.

H~on. 21. T,. MOSS: All persons hadto do. t hen, was to sell liquor and say,

"Yes, we sold liquor and you. cannotconvict us because we are an unregisteredclub and we do not answer all the re-quirements which entitle us to registra-tion."

Hon. J1. At. DREW: An unregisteredclub was a club which should he regis-tered but was not: that was how he tookit.

Hon. A. G. JENKINS: Unless thewords were retained this part of theBill would be useless; it would openi thedoor to indiscriminate sly-grog selling.All a person would have to do would[ heto put a notice outside a door that itwas somebody' 's club, and any personwould be able to go in and get a driink.

Hon. M. L. MOSS: Take the ease, ofthe West Australian Turf Club; theykept liquor but did not sell it. Whenthey held committee meetings they woild,per lips. have a drink after the meetingwas over, and uinder this clanse theywould he liable to prosecution. Hethought that the matter could be put ona proper basis by taking out the words''supply or.''

The Colonial Secretary: You cannotmake an amendment now.

'Hon. M. L. MOSS: We could throwthe onus upon the defendant of provingthat he gave liquor and did not sell it.Why should not any club keep a fewbotle"k of 1 pier on tiheir premises?

lIon. . Cullen: They do so.Hion. If. L. MOSS: And we were

passing a law t-. mike that oiuizil. Weshould make it penal to sell and throwthe onus upon the defendant to provethat it was not sold.

Hon. J ' M. DREW: An unregisteredclub uinder this Bill was a club thatought to he registered but was not reg-istered. and it must exist for all pur-poses set forth in the clause.

Question put and passed: the amend-ment not pressed.

On motion by Colonial Secretary Nos.115 and 116 not pressed.

On motion by Colonial Secretary Nos.119 and 120 (consequential) pressed.

No. 125-(Abolition and registrationof baimaids):

3720

[3 FRBRU.mn-, 1911.] 2

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thisamendment dealt with all the new clausesrelating to the abolition and registrationof barmaids. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.Question passed; the amendment not

pressed.On motion by the Colonial Secretary

No. 127 (consequential) pressed.The CHAIRMAN: Certain requests

for amendments were agreed to by theLegislative Assembly with modifications.The first of these was an amendment tostrike out Clause 196, and the Legisla-tive Assembly agreed to the requestedamendment with certain modifications.

No. 117.-Assembly's modification-The amendment is modified by deletingthe words ''strike out" and inserting"amend" in lien thereof, and by addingto the amendment the words "by addingthe following proviso' ":-Provided thatno license shall be surrendered unlessthe consent of every person entitled toany freehold or leasehold interest in thepremises in possession, remainder, or re-version, or in any mortgage, charge, orsecurity affecting such premises shall befirst had and obtained.

T he COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the modification be agreed to.Hon. MW. L. MOSS: The modification

was much better than the clause in theBill when it first came before this Cum-mittee. The only danger to he appre-hended was in lax administration, becauseevery magistrate would have to be thor-oughly satisfied that there was no charge,morgage, or security on the premises.However, he had done his duty by callingattention to the matter, and he wouldallow the matter to rest at that.

Quest ion put and passed; the modifica-tion agreed to.

No. 123-Assembly's modification-Theamendment is modified by inserting "sub-ject to the provisions of this Act" after"enabling," in line 13 of the proposednew clause.

Thle COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

Tha~t the .nodiflaio& be agreed to.When the clause was passed it was made

a condition that whilst a bona fide trav-eller could be served with a drink on Sun-dlay, the bar was to be kept closed. Thiswas a proviso to allow the employees togro in and out of the bar.

Question put and p~assed; the modifica-tion agreed to.

No. 124-Assembly's modification: Theamendment is modified by deleting theproposed new Clause 102.

Thie COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the modification be agreed to.Question passed; the modification

agreed to.Hon. A. G. JENKINS: Was there not

an amendment to the bona fide clause toreduce the distance from 10 miles to fivemiles?~ According to the newspaper anamendment of this character was carriedin the Assembly.

The CHAlIMAN: The Committeehad dealt with a Mfessage from the As-sembly which eon tal lied no such, amend-ment as the lion, member referred to.

Hon. A. G. JENKINS: Butl an am-endment was carried reducing the dis-tance to five miles. It would he a pityif the M1essage sent down from the As-sembly was inaccurate.

H~on. 11. L. MOSS: Was there no way-if there was a doubt as to the accuracyof the official M1iessage-of dealing withit?

Thle CHAIRMAN: The Message wouldhe reported to the House, and the sub-sequent proceeding of sending a Messageto the Assembly could be delayed. If itwas found that a mistake had been madethe Mcessage could be recommitted for thepurposie of dealing with it.

Hon. If. L. MOSS: That seemed asensible way of dealing with thne matter.We could not shut our eyes to what wehad seen in the newspapers.

Resolu tions reported.On motion by the COLONIAL SEC-

RETARY VMessage recomitted for thepurpose of further considering Amend-ment .113.

No. 113-Clause 159, Subelause (1),line 1.-Strike out "supply or:"

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thisamendment was consequential on the

3721

3722 [COUNCIL.]

others that the Committee had agreed to,and he now moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.Question passed; the amendment not

pressed.Resolution reported; and the report

adopted.The COLONIAL SECRETARY: It

was reported to the House that evidentlythere was a mistake in the Message, andnow hie was informed by the Clerk As-sistant that such was the ease. The bestcourse would be to move the Chairmaninto the Chair and reconsider the Mes-sage.

The PRESIDENT: But the reporthas been adopted.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Per-haps the better way -would be to allow theAssembly to send up a supplementaryMessage. The return MIessage to the As-sembly could he delayed until a laterperiod-

BILL - PARLIAMENTARY ALLOW-ANCE.

Seeond Reading.The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon.

J. D. Cunnolly) in moving the secondreading said: This is a measure re-lating to the payment of members ofboth Houses of the Legislature. As.members are aware, the payment of mem-bets to-day is fixed for both Houses at£200 per annum, and it is sought in theBill to increase that -payment in so faras the Assembly is concerned from £C200to £300. The payment given to membersof this House will remain at £200. TheBill also increases the payment made tothe President and Speaker from £C600 to£700, and to the Chairman of Commit-tees in both Houses from £400 to £500, sothat all the gentlemen referred to get anaverage increase of £100 per, annumn.There is a new departure in the Bill inregard to payment of members, inasmuchas it provides that there shall be a pay-ment of £500 to the leader of the Opposi-tion. This is a new departure, but one,I think, at which members will tnt cavil,because the member who occupies theposition of leader of the Opposition hasa great deal of work to perform. He has

to make -himself au fait with all the Billsthat conme on for discussion, and it is averyv arduous task daring the session.

H9on. C. A. Piesse: Does hie get the-£C300 as well?

The COLONIAL SEcRETABY: No;£0u altogether. I think it is worth theextra money and, moreover, after all,whether we agree with the policy of pay-ment of members or not a good leaderof the Opposition is good for the Connf-

flon, M1. L .1Moss: There are others be-sides the leader of the Opposition whohave to watch every Bill.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Thefact that he has to study every Bill is apretty big task. Of course, the leader ofthe Opposition has the assistance of his.party, still, the bulk of the work naturalitfalls on the leader. This measure makesprovision that the payment of a menibershall not cease because the member be-comes a Mfinister. This po-wer exists inthe Federal Parliament. The Ministercan dra-w his salary as a private memberas well as that of a member of the Execu-tive. I do not think it is necessary for meto say much on the Bill. I am not goinginto the question of the principle of pay-ment of members. I candidly admit I amnot altogether enamoured with the prin-ciple of payment, hut we have got beyondthat stage, and it is not nowv whether wepersonally approve of the principle ornot. Probably we could obtain quite suffi-cient men to represent the people in Par-liament if there was no payment of memn-bers; at the same time, I qnite agree witha great deal that may be said on the otherside, that without payment we may keepout of Parliament men who are worthyof a place there. If we admit the prin-ciple of payment-and it is admitted allover Australia, for there has been pay-ment of members for 10 or 11 years-itthen becomes a question if you pay amember should we not pay him suffi-cient. Undoubtedly I think we are allof one opinion abont that. Membersshould be paid a sufficient amount. Theamount which members are paid, if welook at it as a salary, is not a princelysum, for when we consider the cost of

3722

[3 I42iJRIJAUV, 191l.j 72

living in Western Australia, £200 is asmall amount so far as members are con-cerned, because the cost of living is higherthan in the Eastern States. Take a Statelike Victoria. The travelling to Parlia-meat is a very small matter, but the bulkof the members here have to travel hun-dreds of miles, are away from home agood deal, they neglect their businesses,and in every respect the argument sa infavour of members being paid more inWestern Australia. The payment of mem-bers in this State is lower than in anyother.State, with the exception of SouthAustralia and Tasmania. In the FederalParliament the salaries are fixed at £600,and that amount has been endorsed by thecoun try.

Hon. J. W. Langsford: It is the sameto members of both Houses there.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Wecan only come to this conclusion, that thepeople of Australia have endorsed thepayment of members and, moreover, theysay. if members are to be paid they shouldreceive a fair rate. One reason why thepayment is justified in the Federal Parlia-mnent at the rate fixed, and the same argu-nient apIpplies here, is that the seat ofGrovernment is far removed from themajority of members, and that is a justi-fication for paying them a larger salary.There is the expense of travelling, the loss,arid being awayv from home and business.I do not think it is necessary to argue thequestion of payment, it is only a questionwhether we consider members are adequ-ately paid here. The Government believethey are not, and the wish of the countryis that their payment should be increased.

l. Sir J. W. Hackett: Both Houses?The COLONIAL SECRETARY: This

Bill only provides for an increase tomembers of another place. Perhaps mem-bers in this House can better afford towork for their country at a lesser i-ate.We are supposed to represent property,and if members had not same propertythey could not be here. It does not takeso much time here as it takes in anotherplace to transact the business, but prob-ably that is a good deal the fault of an-other place; nevertheless, it does takemore time in another place to transact the

business. They have to go more intomoney matters than we do. Then, again,they are in charge of their districts, andit takes a good deal of time to attend todistrict matters. I do not think it isnecessary to say anything further. Iformally move-

That the Bill be now read a secondtime.

Hon. J1. T. GLOWREY (South) : I amentirely opposed to the Bill. In the firstplace I notice it is to be made retrospec-tive.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: MayI make a personal explanation? Whentile Bill was first introduced it was madeto be dated from. the beginning of thenext Parliament, but in another place anamendment was inserted to make it fromthe first of this year.

Hoil. J. T. GLOWVREY: There mayhave been, some reason at one time whymembers of Parliameint should be in re-ceipt of higher pay, but I say many ofthe reasons have now disappeared. Intie first place we had numerous disad-vantages in travelling to and from theseat of Government. The goldfields arenow wvell provided with railway connec-tion, and members of Parliament enjoythe privilege of a free railway pass. Thenin the Northern Part of the State com-munication was exceedingly difficult;there is flow a regular line of boats run-iiing to and fro, and it is quite easy toreach even the remotest parts of theNorth.

Ron. Sir E. H. Wittenoom: There areno free passes on t-he boats.

Honl. J. T. GLOWREY: Another rea-son why members' salaries should not beincreased at the present time was thatthe amount of money members were al-lowed to spend onl elections was regulatedby statute.

Haon. M. L,. Moss: There is no limit tothe cost of organisation.

Honl. J. T. GLOWREy: I notice thatin Tasmania members are paid only £100;here we propose to increase the amount 'o£800. The population of Australia issomewhere about four millions, and we

3723

3724[COUNCIL.]

are paying £230,000 to members andMinisters. Again, this question has neverbeen before the electors. If the Bill haddeferred the increase until the beginningof the incoming Parliament I should haveraised no objection whatever. I will sub-mit a few figure,; to show the amountspaid to members of Parliament in thedifferent States. In Victoria it is £18,000;in New South Wales, where it is highest,they are paid £24,000;-if we pass thisBill we will be paying over £25,000; inQueensland the amount paid is £21,000;in South Australia a little over £10,000,and in Tasmania £5,300. I would like toimpress the significance of these figures onhon. members. We Shall be paying thehighest amount in the Commonwealth ifwe pass the Bill.

The Colonial Secretary: When you -iretaking the totals of N-ewSouth Wales andQueensland you must remember the Legis-lative Councils there are nominated.

Hon. Sir 3. WV. Hackett: So, too, inVictoria.

Hon. J. T. GLOWREY: The fact re-mains we will be paying £25,000 as againstthe £24,000 paid in New South Wales.

The Colonial Secretary: New SouthWales pays £24,000 for one House.

Hon. J. T. GLOWREY: The amountspaid to M1inisters of the Crown are -isfollow:-New South Wales, £8,400;Queensland, £10,490; South Australia,£4,000; Western Australia, £6,200; Tas-mania, £2,500. The cost of running Par-lianient, comprising both Houses, is setdown at about £52,000, and we proposeto still further increase that amount. .4sMr. Cullen remarked last night, while wf-are asked to increase our salaries we aresweating our public servants. We have agentleman in Perth in one of our mostimportant departments, namely, that oftaxation, and I believe he is drawing themagnificent sum of £350.

The Colonial Secretary: It is £550.Hon- J1. T. GLOWiIEY: I will not

contradict the hon. member, but I aminclined to think he is wrong. In anycase there are many other similar in-stances. I entirely disagree with the Bill;it has not been before the electors, and I

do not thinki it should come into opera-tion at the present time, I hope hon.members will seriously consider the posi-tion before voting for the second reading.I cannot vote myself, because I have,paired with Mr. Metarty, but in order to.Save time, I move as an amendment-

That lte word ".now" be struck )utand "this day six months" be added to.the motion.

Hon. M1. L. INOSS: On a point oforder, and without indicating which wayI shall vote, is it competent for ant hon-member to move an amendment, and sayhe will not vote for it9

Hon. 3. T. Glowrey: I cannot.Hon. M. L. MOSS: I know that, but I

ask is it competent for an bon. member to.move such an amendment while statinghe will not vote for it?

The PRESIDENT: I only take notice-of the hon. member's motion; his subse-quent conduct will appear.

Amendment put and negatived.Question put, and a division taken

with the following result-Ayes - . .. 16Noes .. . . 6

Majority for .

Hon. E. M. ClarkceHon. . 1. ConnollyHon. 3. F. CullenHon. J. M. DrewHon. D. G. GawvLerSir. J W. Hwckettlion. A. 0. JenkinsHon. W. KingemlllHon. J. W. Langsford

Hon. V. HamersisyHon. B. LaurieHon. M. L. MossHon. C. Sommers

- 10

"as.

Bon. W. ZMnrwiekHon. R. D. McKenzieHon. E. MeLartyHan. B. C. O'BrienHon. 0. A. PlesseSir E. H. WitteneaonHon. C. McKenzie

(Teller).

NOEs.

Han.S.' StubbsT5. H. Wilding

(Teller).

Question thus passed.Bill read a second time.

In Committee.

Clauses 1, 2-agreed to.Clause 3-Allowance to members of

Council and Assembly:

3724

13 1'EBRuABY, 1911.172

H!on. J. M. DREW moved an amend-inent-

That in paragraph (a) the words,,Iwo hundred" be struck out and "threehundred" inserted in lieu.Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM: Hav-

ing served many years when there wasno payment of members, hie had formedthe conclusion that payment of memberswas a mistake; but as the principle hadbeen adopted throughout the Common-wealth, it would be idle and superfluousto attempt any alteration in the matter,and it was reasonable to adopt the cus-tom recognised. However, membersshould be adequately paid; and as £200a year was not sufficient for a man de-voting his whole time to rarliameintarywork, he agreed with the amendment;while as the Parliament of Western Aus-tralia was composed of two Houses onthe same basis, there was no reason whythey should be separated in any way inregard to the allowance to members.Certainly the Legislative Council did notwork so hard as the Assemblyv, hut theCouncil did not take so much time overcertain measures, and members were al-ways prepared to do whatever work wassubmitted from another place. Membersof the Council being part and parcel ofthe Constitution, they were entitled tothe same treatment as members of an-other House. It was said members ofthe Legislative Council could better af-ford to take a lesser remuneration inas-much as they represented property; but,on the other hand, many members ofthe Legislative Council were con-cerned in very large and import-ant businesses, and probably lost agood deal more through their absence f romtheir businesses than men who were notpaid a similar amount in other ways. Itwas said that these people could stay outof the House, but then the country wouldbe deprived of the benefit of their longbusiness and commercial experience.

Amendment put and passed; the clauseas amended agreed to.

Clauses 4, 5, and 6-agreed to.

Clause 7-Commencement of applica-tion of Act

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Theclause was amended in another place tomake the payment commence from the be-ginning of this year; but as the clause wasnot at all clear. and was rather cumber-somne, lie intended to move the insertion ofa new clauise to the effect that this Actsalfl hare effect as from the 1st day ofJa they 1911, and the first allowances

Lt heraes prescnibed by this Act shallbe reckoned as from that date. Thisclause would take the place of the clausebefore the Committee.

Clause put and negatived.

Clause 8-agreed to.

New clause:

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the following be added to standas Clause 7 -"lThis Act shall haveeffect as from the first day of January,1911, and tihe first allowance at therates prescribed by this Act shall bereckoned as from that dale.

Hlon. C. SOMMERS: The Committeehad no right to make the Bill retrospec-tive, and he took strong exception to it.Payment should commence from the as-sembling of the new Parliament, thus theelectors would have an opportunity ofexpressing their opinion on the matter,When the Federal Parliament increasedthe salaries of their members there wasgreat indignation on the part of the peo-ple, and if we were now to do the sameas -we accused the Federal Parliament ofdoing we also would have to look for con-demnation from the people who sent themembers to Parliament. It was never in-tcnded that payment of members shouldbecome a living wage, but that it shouldbe simply a remuneration for servicesrendered for a portion of the year, and tomake this retrospeetve would be wrong.

New clause put, and a division takenwith the following result:- 1

AyesNoes

Majorit,

4

rfor .. 12

3725

3726 (COUNCIL.]

A YEs.

Hon. 3. D. Connoliy Hot). C. MdcKenzieHon. .1. F. Cullen Hon. ft. D. McKenzieRon. J. NJ. Drew Pion. E. MeLartyHon. D. G. Qawler Hlon. M. L. Moss

Sir 3. ii' Uaekett Hen. B. C. O'Brlaa,Hon. V. Hameraley Sir E. H. Wittentoomlion. A. G. Jenkins Hon. C. A. PleseHon. J. W. Langetord (Teller).E81(m. W. MNxwtck

NOES.

Hon. M. LaurieHon. C. SommersHon. T. H. Wilting

Hon. S. StubsI(Teller).

New clause thus passed.Bill reported with an amendment.The COLONIAL SECRETARY

moved-That the report be adopted.

Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOMI: Withthe indulgence of meombers he would liketo say a few words in connection withthis Bitt which he lied omitted at aneralier stage. In Clause 3 he noticedthat an extra amount was to be paidto the leader of the Opposition. If therewas one innovation that he wvould heprepared to welcome more than anotherit was that there should he somne recog-nition of the position of -the leader ofthe Opposition. He did not care to whatparty ffim leader of the Opposition be-longed, that position carried with it oner-ous and difficult duties, and the onlyother position that he could compare itto was that of leader of the LegislativeCouncil, for the reason that in the Legis-lative Assembly the Glovernment had fiveor six members to share the responsi-bility of introducing Bills, while in theLegislative Council the representative ofthe Government had to do all that workhimself. That gentleman had to makehimself acquainted not only with everyBill that came before the LegislativeCouncil, but with every detail of them,so that he should he in the position todiscuss them at length. This involved agreat deal of labour. He (Hon. Sir E.EL. Wittenoom) had bad bitter experi-ence of being leader of the LegislativeCounceil, bnt unlike the Colonial Secre-tary of to-day he did not have the as-sistance, of an able coadjutor; he had hadto do all the work himself and make him-

self acquainted with every Bill and everyclause in all, because it was necessaryto he prepared for the vagaries of somemnember-,. who at times asked absiirdquest idnls about sime of the clauses4.That might account for his impaired di-gestion at the present tie. He am-pathised with the lion. member who ledthe Legislative Council, because of theamount of labour which was involved inmaking himself so thoroughly acquaintedwith the contents of most of the Bills.On the sanmc grounds he felt the great-est sympathy for the leader of the Op-position, no matter to which party hebelonged, whether it be the Liberal orthe Labour party, and he was pleasedto see the innovation which wvould havethe eff eat of recognising the services thatgentleman rendered to the country.

Question put and passed; the reportadopted.

BILL-LICENSNG.lsiernbly's Message.

A previous Mfessage from the Assemblyhaving omitted a modification of one ofthe Council's amendments, a supplemen-tary Message conveying same now con-sidered.

In CmiteNo. 124 (a)-Assembly's modifica-

tion-Proposed new Clause 09. line 4,strike out ''ten'' and insert ''five'' inlieu,

The COLONIALS SECRETARY: Thisclause dealt with the definition nf bonafide traveller. The distance by law atpresent was three miles, and the newclause increased the distance to tenmiles. An amendment hnd been made byanother place reducing the distance tofive miles. He moved-

That the modificat ion be agreed to.Hon. J. F. CULLEN: If the Commit-

tee refused to agree to this amendmentwe would delay matters most seriously.

Hon. B. C. O'BRIEN: It was his in-tention to vote against the Assembly'smodification.

Hon. M. L. Moss: What, will you votefor 10 milesi

Hon. B. C. O'BRIEN: Yes. Under theold Act the distance had been three

3726

[3 FEBRUARY, 1911.1]72

miles. The desire of the Committee hadbeen to as far as possible prevent Stin-day drinking. Now the distance hadbeen raised from three to tive miles., andit was neither one thing nor tile other.There was only one 'solution for the evilof Sunday trading, and that was to haveregular trading hours on Sundays. Asthat hod not been done it was the dutyof the Committee to insist on the ten-mile limit.

Ron. E. MoLARTY: When this ques-tion had been previously under consid-eration be bad suggested that the limitshould be five miles. He had agreed tothe amendment moved by Mr. Moss tomake it six miles, but that amendmenthad been defeated and ten miles had beeninserted. He still though five miles wasa reasonable limit, and quite far enoughfor a person travelling in the summer.Surely if a man, -who had travelled fivemites, come to an inn or a wayside houseand wanted a glass of beer he had aperfect right to get it.

Question puit, and ni division takenwith the following result:

AyesNoes

Majority for..

Ayes.Hon. J. D. CoonolirMon. J. V. CallenRon. J. Mi. DrewHan. D. Gl. GawlerRon. V. HamersleyHon. J. W. LangefordHon. R. Laurie

Ron. W. Manrwick11on. C. McKenzie

162

.. 14

Hon. R. D. McKenzieHon. N5. MeLartyHon. M. L, MlosHon. C. Sonmere

1Hon. T. H. WildingSir H. H. 'WittenoomHan. A. G. Jenkins

(Teller).

Noes.

Hon. S. Sus Hon. B. C.O're

Question thus passed: the Assembly'smodification agreed to.

Resolution reported, the report ad-opted, and a Message accordingly re-turned to the Assembly.

BILLx-EALTH.A4ssembly's Message.

The Legislative Assembly having de-elined to make certain amendments re-

quested by the Council, also having madetwo amendments with modifleations, thesamne were now considered.

No. 20. Clause 138, Subelause (5).-Strike out "and lodged with the localau~thority."

The COLONIAL SER1ETARYinoved-

That the amendment be not pressed.This was not a vei)' important amend-mentL The clause provided for the lodg-ing of all plans of a public -building bothwith the Commissioner of Public Healthand the local authority. The Committeehad struck out "local authority," and tothat amendment the Assembly had notagreed. He did not think the amendmentOf sufficient importance to be pressed.

Question passed; the amendment notpressed.

No. 52. Clause 229.-Strike out thisclause:

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the amendmnent be not pressed.

It was to be regretted that the Assemblyhad not agreed to this amendment, whichwas to strike out the clause allowing fora conscientious objection to vaccination.He still held that it was a mistake to in-sert this clause, but as this provision wasonly a very small portion of a big Bill, hewould sooner allow it to pass than havethe Bill defeated. Next session he hopedto introduce a Vacciaatiou Bill, becausethe present Act was quite Obsolete.

Hon. , LAURIE: It was a mistakenot to insist on this amendment. Onlythe other day when an epidemic of small-po~x broke out in America the people werefalling over themselves to be vaccinated.

lHon. Sir E. H. W"ITTENOOM: ItWould be better to lose the Bill than toagree to this clause. He was in Perthyears ago when an outbreak of smallpoxbad occurred and there was a great chanceof it spreding all over the colony. Hadit not been for. the vaccination. of nearlyeverybody in the community there wouldhave been a terrible epidemic. All scienicePointed out that vaccination alleviatedsmallpox, and where the good of the wholecommunity was concerned the Committeeshould not give way. It was stated that

3727

728[COUJNCIL.]

certain people objected to vaccination onconscientious grounds, but a good manypeople might object to paying their hillson conscientious grounds. As a result ofexperience, niot of fads and ideas, weknew that vaccination had a great deal todo with preventing and minimising thespread of smallpox, and as Fremantlewas situated in such a peciarly danger-ous positiou, being practically the firstport of call after the steamers left Singa-pore and Colomnbo, where contagion camnefrom, we should exercise the greatest care.His idea was that the people who hadconscientious objections should go andfive in other countries.

Question passed; the amendment niotprVessed.

No. 54. Clause 248.-Insert a newclause -to stand as Subclause 3:

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Itwvas provided that if a local authority re-fused to carry out certain matters in rela-tion to infectious diseases thre Commis-sioner of Public Health could enter intoan agreement to do so. When the Hillwas originally introduced in another placeit contained that proviso. It was struckout in the other place and wvas ic-insertedon his (the Colonial Secretary's) motion.It had been cut' out again, and he re-gretted it very much. He would not nowtake any responsibility in the matter asanother place had twice rejected the pro-viso. He would be extremely sorry tolose the Bill because it contained veryimportant powers relating to a pure foodsupply; therefore, it was not his intentionto insist on the amendment. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.

Question passed; the amendment riotpressed.

No. 65.-Clause 250, Subelause 2:The COLONIAL SECRETARY: This

and the following amendments were con-sequential and related to the registrationof midwives and nurses. There was con-siderable discussion in the LegislativeCouncil on the matter and provision wasmade for the registration of midwivesand general nurses. The Legislative As-sembly had twice rejected the registrationfor general nurses. He believed the rea-son which actuated them in throwing it

out was that they thought it snould bccontained in a separate measure. Withregard to the registration of midwives theAssembly's amendment provided for aminimum of six mouths' training; tileLegislative CJouncil, made it 12 months;it was altered back to six months, and theLegislative Assembly insisted upon theiramndmeint. Now he (the Colonial See-,retary) rid -hinmself of all responsibility.His object had been to assist the peopleto get a better class of midwives. For-tunately, however, the provision relatingto this matter did not come into forceuntil the 1st January, 1912, and that bythat time Parliament would meet againand doubtless reconsider the matter. Noharmn would be done, therefore, by agree-ing to the Assembly's amendment. WhenParliament met again probably a separateBdll would be introduced dealing with theregistration of nurses. He moved-

That the amendment be not pressed.

Question pasd: the amendment notpressed.

On motion by the COLONIAL SEC-RETARY, Nns. 610, 75, and 78 notpressed.

On motion by the COLONIAL SEC-RETARY, the Assembly's modificationsNos. 4 and 29 agreed to.

Resolutions reported; and the reportadopted.

I Committee, etc.The Assembly's message thus having

been dealt with consideration of Bill inCommittee resumed from 26th January.

Title--agreed to.Bill reported, and the report adopted.Read a third time and passed.

Sitting suspended from 4.15 to 4.25 p.m.

BILL-JURY ACT AMENDMENT.Assembly's Amendments.

Schedule of three amendments made bythe Legislative Assembly now considered.

In Committee.On motions by COLONIAL SECRE-

TARY, the Assembly's amendments (NewClauses 6, 7, and 8) agreed to.

3728

L[3 Fnn~unv, 1911.] 3729

FResolutions reported, the report ad-opted, and a Message accordingly re-lried to the Assembly.

BILL-ROMAN CATHOLIC PRO-PERTY.

All Stages.Received from the Legislative Assembly

and read a first time.Second Reading.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon.J. D.Connolly) in moving the secondreading said: 'The object of this Bill isto vest in the Romanr Catholic Bishop ofthe diocese of Perth and his successors inoffice all property belonging to or held onaccount of the said diocese and to makefurther provision for disposing of suchp~roperty connected with it. Some doubthas arisen as to the title of land held bythe church. Hon. members will probablybe aware that there has been a ebange'inthe Catholic bishopric of Perth. All theliads for church purposes were vested inthe name of the former Bishop, BishopGibney; now there is a doubt as towhether the transfer can pass automati-cally to his successors. If it were heldby the Commissioner of Titles thbat thelands were not vested in the Bishop ofPerth it would he necessary in each caseto obtain a transfer from Bishop Gibneyto his successor; that would necessitateIlie cost of the transfer and half per cent.stamp duty, which would run into a con-siderable sum of money. It would be un-necessary expense which was never con-lemplated because whern the land wasvested in the Bishop it was vested in him,not as "Matthiew G'ibney," hut as "Mat-thew Gibney, Catholic Bishop of the dio-cese of Perth." There is no objection tothe measure on the part of Bishop Gib-ney. Counsel has given an opinion thatthere is a doubt as to whether -the landswould vest in the newv Bishop and as towhether a transfer would have to be ob-tained in every ease, signed by t-he Bishop,to his successor. Of course there wouldnot be a hardship in obtaining the trans-fer.

Hon. M. L. Moss: Except that it wouldcost a lot of money.

C 132]

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Itwould run into a large sum of money.This Hill will obviate that expense. TheBill also provides for the appointment ofadvisors and it also makes provision forthe Bishop being a corporation sole withpower to purchasie and sell, mortgage,lease or dispose of the property. I sanadvised also that it is the intention ofthe Catholic body to draw up a compre-hensive measure to deal with their pro-perties and to provide for the appoint-ment of trustees and so place these pro-perties on a better footing. I move-

Thlat the Bill be now read a secondtime.Question pitt and passed.Bill read a second time.

In Committee, etc.Bill passed through Committee without!

debate, reported without amendment, aadthe report adopted.

Head a third time aind passed.

BILL,-ROADS.A ssembly's Message.

Sehedule of three amendments notagreed to by the Assembly "cow consi-dered.

In Committee.No. 14.-Clause 175, Subelause 1, line*

5, after "substantial" add "sheep proof":qThe COLONIAL SECRETARY

moved-That the amendment be not insisted

on.

Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM: Theword "substantial" was quite sufficient.and there was no need to insist on thewords "sheep proof." No fences couldbe made proof against seone sheep.

Question passed; amendment not iii-

sisted on.No. 33.-Clause 330, Subelause 3, strike

out "an3 ' such plan to the Board," andinsert "any plait of land within a town-site or suburban area or whichi shows anyvallotments of less than one acre in area'>

The COLONIAL SECRETARYmoved-

That the amendment be not insist edon.

3730 [COUNCIL.]

The amendment after all was only a verysmiall one, and, as the Act was only inforce for eighteen months, could makevery little difference.

Hon. V. HAIESLEY: At everyturn a demand iwas made on people to cutupI their areas, and as in many instancesthere was no cost in clearing a road, he(lid not see why the owner should be pen-alised to the extent of £3 a chain, whenother roads in the locality bad not costmore than 10s, per chain for the last 20years. He hoped that the amendmentwould be insisted upon.

Ron. W. MfARWICKR The Govern-meat were trying to throw the responsi-b.lity for making roads on the owners,who were being taxed almost out of ex-istence. There were plenty of cases wherethousands of acres were served by roadswhich had never had a penny spent onthem. Unless the amendment was in-sted on the clause would penalise any

person who subdivided his estate, by corn-pefing him to deposit the exorbitant sawof £8 per chain.

Hon. V. HAMERSLEY: This was oneof the most drastic provisions that couldbe made. Many persons were willing tocut tip their areas but they were con-fronted with stumbling-block& such as thisproposed clause. He agreed that owners

3should not be allowed to subdivide landsand throw a great expenditure of rates onthe local authority, but there wvere manyareas throlughout the State where nothinglike £3 per chain was spent on the roads.T1 seemed ridiculous that a mail shoulddeposit £3 a chain for a road on whichperhaps not more titan 10s. per chainwvould be spent.

Question passed: the amnendment notinsisted oil.

No. 34 (consequential) not insisted onl.Resolutions reported, the report adop-

led], and a Mfessage accordingly returnedto thep Assembly.

BThf,--NTVERSITY.III Committee.

Message received from the Assemblynolifyjpg that amendments requested bythe Council had been made. Considern-

Lion in Committee resumed from the pre-vions day.

Hon. IV- Kingsznill in the Chair; Hon.R. D. McKenzie (Honorary Minister) incharge of the Bill.

Title-agreed to.Bill reported with amendments, and the

report adopted.Read a third time alid passed.

BILL-MINES AND MACHINERY.INSPECTION.

All Stages.Received from the Legislative Assembly

mid read a first time.

Second Reading.lion. R. D. McKENZIE (Honorary

Minister) in moving the second readingsaid: I should explain to the House thatthis Bill relates to the administration of-the Mines and Machinery Acts. At thepresent time, ini most of our mining dis-tri cts, wve htave anl inspector of mines andan inspector of maehine,-v. In the largecentres wvhere there are a number of mninescollected in oiie group ii is necessary tohave both inspectors, bill there are iso-lated di stricts where it is not advisablefor both an inspector of mines and an)inspector of machinery to have to go oncea year. I know of some places on theEastern G~oldfelds where it takes threedays for anl inspector to reach a certainminec and it requires t-wo or three hoursto do his work and then it occupies himanother 'three days to get back. Both in t-spectors of mines and inspectors of ma-chinery have to do these trips annually.'Pine Bill will enable one inspector to dothe wvork which two inspectors arc doingat the present time. Clause 2 explainsthis matter fully. I do nol. think it isnecessar 'y for ine to say any more. Tmove--

That the Hill be nou; read a secondtime.Question pitt and passed.Bill read a second time.

In Committee, ete.Bill passed through Committee without

debate, reported without amendment. andthe report adopted.

Read a9 third time and passed.

413730

[3 FmttUARY, 1911.] 33

10 iA.- -PAIU IAAMF: TA BY A LLO)W-IN N'C I->.

31 Qs,zI u reiv i e 111)11 iIIV AS-,ciniualVlit il'yi Inc [lint amle nimentts re iitesteci bylie Concaail hail beeti imade. t uisilena-

[ion in Commuait tee resumed.'Title al-iI'CLd toa. Bill rejatariral, nldti[le

report ad opted.Bill read a thijd tunec anid jmssa i.

IP1 LL-~lmMANEN' ilESEllVIO

It et ivaet fromit lie I xgis! at ie Asseanahia aid nead! a i at tlittle.

., l'u d lReading.Ila. IR. 1).31 I'eEN'/I K (Ihuitvroii

3a iistc'r) iii naiiii tine secuond aeadig-aid: 'Pih is vitae (if tliase Bills that routpes

Pieforie Ia s alalina lv Jial! prn-ainlsman ao [Innt'tetii-ation ta it jraatitais ltt vCt'a':ia re-

-vr~ ill tile St ate. C 'aai 2 ofathle Blln-i'tea-4 Ii a pa opuWsal ilp t le exteiisiai ofi

(lie seliali 4Iite' at ('larenu ilinat1. The E~du-vation mDIep ar tmenat tiesirc. Ii' erect a, Ilim-

kat aiimuing anav cookery schamool wich w;illiccessitale anl exl eaasivi vA, line presenitschool groannds to lake in l on vof ('lass"A" reserve M53 f'or reei'eatiai. Tile arearet jietl is I rood 15.2 lacrehies and it w~illhe neessary to exclude this area fromreserve AXNS3 before it can he set iiajantifora a sehlatat site. Tlhl mnunaicial conail

Inns agrced (Oiii eoniiq thi t aat tie pathlaypainiv tharoughi tlnis landit is widenaiil Ia313 feet ail 'ta t a smazll pnortion shalt stiltremain -as part ot' lte hark teserral. 'fieiaec-essanxv sttavey has lit effected. Clause

3p of liar till -el'ea- to reserve 7686S onl tileoIltisseit o -Na riile a-i aii. It a nt aiatsabuat -t50l0 actres, aul is set ,ae 'oa-inar iItIs. ft is to pa sovi to ea xcludte a

poiatt 11111 (IaI tint' oo ol' subvhivisioai'Ind thrtiwinag it 1)1 aria fair selve-ltiota, mataalso tol jv-rivvid ~; rtasile. anri-ilt talhail site. el<c. 'Tere is piraUtially aav"ilitabea- oni this poivi i waaa-l Iip reserrinnc.bitl n.s it has ben-a'-eal -'A"' it is lacces-Saaw- Ilm Pit I It il int ary si nl jaa c nhtailallie aabtkiiaevl toa its exa-isiava. 1i was arig-ananlly sea apar cias a stoajpitp plate foa'tra-el ler'~.a tid vimc-k, bitt whae-t tte I a r-ereserve was set ;tltiit to pre-sere Lrminatimtber. Ilite siai11r oane Wais incluadvedi a,; atntiuiral 1len i ty spomt. Clast- 4 o [line13il1 refeni to portion of tiae recreation

grmaid ait Hatilaarv. whi-ta Inns beent ima-a-Ititled witlhi t Ileigel .s fentlana- 1a Italahet.(1vY rears. A1ln-, Ileigel lnio- itat 1vamvreal tlecIaainl lay vaectiing van it :n Iaaiiliia. :atal it

is staled hyr the (Xaunvil t Inatif lie llt hisfence baek it waould i-eallv viaitse a d i,-tigiareinent of the airea rather than naanjim-proveaeaat sneiiig that the [~eit- oina I lieaeca-eilt ivan gUain1a1d laas hactai (reI-to e ~ X-Olnie tIaC lIaaivi vaeIIcan)il 1)i livlni. T[inl,covrtaaaiI ai't wrh;aalV ita a'ccord %it [ilt

.zLatantiat2 $If t his 1;1;tal. taigelar vi ii :I porl-tion of It sial E'splanade wiiali la- beeniaia-Iintl il hae~a Rvtaalk 'lnasane )itll, anta asmall part jan .at* ian-k lanids. livseiA41191I. wxhicin has ai-vlrd b i xlitteaav-uedIlieterrota rt. iiIls paurplose. As tile ire-

I r-eativia "tvnaiat has baeen gnite'l toiv Ileaat-ii If[ar t laat jatrftase, the saiel iot uof

Pa a l iiien t is fiiessar '-v nv attinl' sale ofI ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Z i-paaiia[v21-leil. 'IIi' u ama-vls.

Will Ihalnded [ito late {-auaicil aild Wiill It('devai'dm tam maupvitainag thle icci-catioa

g1.t01211d.t I tiiiv'e- -

7 hal t! Bill' f31 a ir nodm a avvacmnvtimea.Qate-iliati ptit and jaaasa-eal Bill1 read at

sec-otdititlne.fit Comittiee'.

tiasev I to '1-agreal to.Seliednales I aiia' 2-agreel to.Title :Han. Ri. 1). MAcKE"NZIE (Roaoat'av

3lituslet) : 'era-tiaa alterations hail heciatatayle inl (lae Bill sintce it was6 tir.t parinttedand it Woutld be vicssa; now to alterthe Title by lihe aaiissiavt of -ertail na rrLs.He aInaiveil--

7/a thel irvuds -riva lov qv Iun.v

hiP!' foyi p.rii't of ~ Cla of vi 'cv rr

numuaalv&-1 .j l(i: vvvaa .6a6id1.7" lo,

si,4d fovi'kvvl/

Amaieaidmenat laia4t'i, t I I' '[' it. aamiltaena d a ati ta.4to.

I till rev viv-ted i-i a tia atill( -l'nCA, a anal4lit' aslauvl nilvapaird.

Read a tirtaitae amidl ruiuriea a-a tLtLegislative Assennibly Wilit i niaaeineant.

BIILLiR)Alf- ('ILtSV'IM.Rc-ciam f' tii te ILegislativec Asai-

l1%arnta arail a] a-t timte.

-I. I). V aunaaollv) ill umnl iti lae s5eutl

3731

3732 [COUNCIL.]

reading said : This is fihe usuial 11111l in-t rodutced ittaily, ever-Y sessionl1"1 ilte

'-1in of i centinisiee. In this inustanea imumber oif muiniipalit its are afIfected.as thle schiedule shows. Thle streets arc

-~nin-st reel ill thle Iown otf Albany.I amjuer-street in thle town of Biromine,it iis~ll Espilainade in Bunhur. a por-

hao of Nwanbourie-terrace in the inuni-Cipality of Cttesiot', portions Of MAtUd-siredt and Brwnswic-k-st I eel ii line town'iofi York., a nd lDver andi Miarquiis st reet-inl tile city o f Pectin. 1 have litre 1latissliowiiw, all these closures. Ii regaa-d tothe lirst pln. tine whole of Spinig_-si icetAibaniy, is closed at thle reques"t W' tieadjoining owners and tile closure is as-sntedtoh by tMe mniicijpility andi ;ip-proved by f ile Ministr. It is proposedto openi a niew street. I may sits thatthese Closures are, almost invariabir uiadcait thle reiltiest of the trin I ttiority. Ill

1IIFbun, Mr. LBeigei has been in I'Vca-

iialion of a portion or Russeil Esplani-ade. and thlis lie deslires t( aciline a% well

ais a silmall portioni of park lands. A499t1,which has already been excluded fr:'nnthe park lands for this purpos. TheBUnlbury 11u.nicipality' ate in full atcord

with this proposal. The niext street at'-feeted is one of .50 links iii Brootne,which is-to be thrown inlto three its

thitigthereon. Thne municipal eoun-61i do not object and the p~ropoisasl wasapprIoved by the late M1inister Ilor LanlidsSir Newtoni AMoore. Pontiin of Swan-ipounnie-terrace which inicludes, a strip of1hle beach. is beint!r elised ait thle requestof the inuiticitiality. this, portion beingrequired bY tine public tuor recreationipiurpotses. As thle street ill still hetwio chins idce. it willi not he impj a ired.mid as a reserve thle ciininil will ibe aiileto better cont rot ftc' beach foir the p'iir--poses; for wvlici it is instil. 'The curstreet to be dealt wit I. lDver-street. I-situated close toi Ianrlianiit FRiu-e. Tinefailwny Detuartuneni have reqluested thlevlimsnre oif tine Dy' er-st rect crissiing.

Hion. K1 L. Moss: r sups tint ji-aauthority has approved of all Ibis?

The COTOAJNAT SltERETAl3Y:Iuntderstanid that in itear n all case, thie

!"'Cal nutilirly ajiproves. Thisin ai'I1 i2nai' thle WVe" P erthi stltiom.

and it is ilntded, iii vonnection wsitti thetretiegti i1nil:rmiiieuilts or thle Perth Aa-liwt sardls. toii i-iie tlei preseiti site tit0I h 6-4i!.t PertInl slalitti west ward and re-

erect it onl lie silte of thet prebtent Cros-iti'i. it will t lttretoie lie levessar v totume thait lhoiiti'ti iW t) 'ver-sl retl. The

c-onnect i''ts wit Ii the nie%% gooii sheikhwill teinter n level crohssing at this shut

ii.,pmissible. hlut till overheadt bridge willtic provimicil for tool I tahi aid a ,tIl6

way ' now ex.istsa hi)ll two i ictains, westoh' l[it- ttiissiii itl ll~avelmck-st reet. Tbli,i1c111 iL hias heeim vlciseit for a ]lng lit

:itid wais itii oipeniedi because thle (it vCouncil ins. iste ci uon it. anid the railwayaitlioritilos tad no power to refuse. Tileiitext street dealt with is that in lilhemiiililii ofii York, where piortionis of

Hwarnswich i ciii Alaind streets are beitiriti,5('i it tlti request of the mniuicipliciiiiicil. 'file streets are not suitaible for

1 ratlic on accutittit the excavations,and a new road is to he opened itt lien

mi)P 11tat dlosed. I beg hi move-TIhat thce Bill be read a second tinme.

.Question put a itd passed.jBill read a second time.

lit (ommittce, etetera.Clautses 1 atid 2-agreed to.Schedule:lion. C. SOMMERS: Mlembers should

lit sure t lit the mnitcipal author-itieshad been consulted in regard to tine closingiii D yer-st reel.

'Cie COLONIAL S lW UETAR VWhilst unaible to say It, inte local aul-liii ni I ha9d approtved oif this Clomsutre, helid totA rthitik if likel y tat thereC Would

() il ijciLll by I tice local iuthoiitY

11.i -oiuii. It air case. wh-lether. thleicatioti weire to be there Or- nit0, the cros-iiimr sWks niot uwcessa cV. becaulse for a

inrea at pomciii io i or thie chic %t ifeas cloised.S~chedule puit anld piassedt.'lirle-aereed to.lfill t-emmuited with' ilt anicitilin1ett. aund

Ilhe ret mrt adopted.Read at lit-lr tinie and se.

D ebate' rc-utieil frrom the 26ith Jaun-tire miii tine amenitnin to the, ition or

3732

[3 FEBRUARY, 1911.] 33

1101]. T. F. lBritnage, moved by Hon, M. L.Moss, as follows ;-"That the Govern-meat should, in the interest of the pros-pecting community, consider the advisa-bility of maiking a reduction in the pre-sent charge for fresh water at Bull-finch."

Hon. H. 1). McKENZIE (HonoraryMinister): The amendment moved byMr. Moss to the motion proposed by Mir,Brimage sonmc days ago was to the effectthat the Government should. in the in-terests of the prospecting commuitnity,consider the advisability of making a re-duction in the price charged for freshwater at Bullfinch. There can be noobjection to the amendment. Person-ally I am at all times willing to giveevery consideration to anything that isgoing to be in the interests of the pros-pector, at the same tinie I regret verymuch that a colleague of mine shouldhave thought it necessary to bring in amotion such as the one lie Imovedl whichwa- that the present charge for freshwater at Bullfinch was excessive anddetrimental to mining development inthai locality. As I have said, the Gov-erment are quite alive to the necessityfor assisting the prospector in WesternAustralia. Frery hon. mnember and everymember of the Government realises thatthe prospector is the backbone of themining industry, and realises also thatevery ounce of gold taken out of a minemakes that mine so much the poorer,and, to continua the prosperity of the in-dustry, it is necessary that fresh minesshould be discovered and to that cud ithbas been the aim_, of' the Government toassist the prospector. T think, that thepresent 01overnment have shown theirwillingness to assist the prospector andalso the mining industry in the -way thatthey have treated the newly discovereddistrict of Bullfinch. A month or twoafter activity was shown in the district,three 'Ministers visited the place andspent several days touring there, visit-ing the mining leases and inspecting thedevelopments which had taken place. Atthe time they visitedl the settlement ofBuillfinch there was- no town: they toundthat there was every danger of there

being a water famnine, and there were200 or 300 men congregated at the placeand that the position was so acute thatsomething would have to be done to pre-vent a water famine. It was decidedby the Government that a temporarypipe line should be put down to the Bull-finch, a distance of 24 miles from South-erin Cross, and it meanmt laying a pipe lineover that distance to gel the water toBullfinch. [t was realised that this sup-ply would have to be temporary, and forpuirely domestic purposes. and to reniiLvea great danger of men having to live ona field without an adequate -water suplply.Then the Government decided to biflda railway to Bullfinch at a cost of ,oie-thing like £40,000. These two mnatter.4show that the Government wvere alive tothe fact that Bullfinch was going to bean important mining centre. If the ov-ernmlent had not been alive to that factneither of these works would have beenundertaken. I want to emipha.sise the factthat the charges for the water were basedon the assumption that the present pipeline would not be there for longer thantwelve months. and that it wVould beSuperscded by a lar-ger and at permanentPipe line. This line cost the Govern-ment somiethin~g like £7,000 to put down.WhVien it is taken tip the valueQ Of it Willhave decreased by some 0.t0011,

Hon. J. W,. Langsford: Is that twvelvemonths-' -wear?

Hon. R. D. McKENZIE: I have figureswhich show the difference between thecost of patting down a pipe line and thevalue of the pipes when taken tip again.I might mention that haulage fromSoutherii Cross represented £080; layingand join ting, £1,310; lifting, £E420; ainddepreciation after twelve mionthis' use.£470; a total of £2,880. The interest onexpendliture is put down at £284, and theoperating expenses for twelve months-£750. With all these charges the totalwould be £3,914, or just under £4,000.The total consumption of water at pre-sent at Bullfinch is 2,500 gallons daily;the approximate income from that forthe twelve months -would be £2,300. Evenif the consumption were 5,000 gallonsthe income would only be £4.600 in the,

3733

3734 COUNCIL.]

year, and our loss at the end of the yearwould be something like £4,000. Sellingthe wvater at as. per hundred gallonswould require an average daily sale of4,720 gallons to enable the (Governmentito get the money back which they vx-pended in putting the pipe line down,that is, apart from the cost of the waterat Southern Cross. Mr. Brimage con-tended that the price of water was de-trimental to the best interests of theini ng industryat Yilgarn. r wvould

like to point out that when the -Ministerswere there there were several meetingsfield in the settlement of Bullfinch andthe progress committee and responsiblepeople in the district agreed that if the.Oovernment would provide a temporarywater supply they would be prepared topay any reasonable price that the Gov-erninent might fix. The Governmentwent carefully into tihe matter and caineto the conclusion that 5s. per hundredgallons wvas a reasonable charge. Theresident., there agreed to that, and nocomplaint has been made; therefore, Ifail to see what good reason Mr. Brim-age has for saying that the action oifthe Government has been detrimental tothe mining industry.

Hon. C. Sommiers: Is Bullfinch in Mr.Brimage 's province.

Ron. Ri. D. McK ENZIE: No. It hasbecome fashionable on the goldfields tocondemn the Government for neglectingto assist the mining industry. I wouldlike to point out that the Governmentrealise the necessity for doing somethingfor the Yilgarn district, and I woulddraw attention to the prompt manlierin which they responded to the needs ofthat localilyv. This Bullfinch discoveryis only some three or four months old:it "-as at the end oif October that a Alin-isterial party' visited the place. and onathe 12th November I find that instruc-tions, were issued by the 'Mines Depart-motnt to its officers to the effect thatthe Assistant P overnment Geologist, Mr.Woodward, should leave for the field im-mediately (t hat was on the 14th Novei-ber andi report (in suitable loeiti.,n- forwater supplies and where subterraneansupplies were likely to be obtained. A

water supply and track clearing partywere placed at the disposal of the geol-ogist to carry out any work he deemedadvisable. On the 31st Januaryv a memo-randum was supplied to me showingwhat had been done by the wvater supplybranch of the Mines Department oin theYilgarn g-oldfields. The several small'rater stations in North Yilgarn weretaken over by the Mines Water Supply,,and in the previous six months had beenimproved. The wvater stations north oVSouthern Cros are very small rock tank,and a few wells, quite enough for a fewprospectors or light road traffic in anaverage season, but inadequate for arush of men, hoises, and camels after along dry summer. The work of the flu-lpartmcnt during the last few mnouthshas been confinted to cleaning out earthcollected in the old wells and tanks andboring in granite belts as near as pos-sible to aurifero,,s belts and generally*trying to keep the Irush1 of prospectorsgoing in tracks and water. [inmediatelyafter the discovery of the Corinthian andBullfinch, boring for wvater in the vicin-ity of these leases was commenced, andifair yields of salt water were obtained.Conservation was decided on. eatclimeniareas were surveyed, and money author-ised for the construction of three tanks.but with the promising outlook of miningit was clear that a pipe line from thegoldfields main would be quicker andmore reliable than conservation. Thenthe i-eport went on to refer lo the vai-ouls works which had been finishied orwere in progress. A sum o~f £2,600 hasalready heen expended in prospectirngfor wvater iii this district, in addition t omany thousands already expended iii theconstruction of dams. All t hese acts willshow thlat the Government are fo'lly aliveto the necessity for assistin,- the pros-pector and the infornation 1 have givento members will prove that the condem-nation against the Government by Mr.Brinmage is not warranted. As T statedat the beginning there can he no, objee-tion to accepting the ammnment movedby Mr. Moss.

Ron. C. A. PIESSE: Before tihe mat-ter is disposed oif I would like to say

3734

[3 FEERUARY, 1911.1]73

a few words on the amendment. When-1 spoke before on the motion I treatedthe matter purely from the standpoint ofthe people wanting a supply of water,and I did not notice at the time that themotion had a sting in its tail. And Iwould tell the hon. member that infuture if he indulges in motions of thiskind he cannot expect to find me sup-porting him. I think this system ofspeaking to the gallery in this House isvery objectionable. I am sorry indeedthat Mr. Briinage is not here, becausefrom what has fallen from the HonoraryMinister there is no doubt that the

Government have done all they possiblycan in this matter. I was in England atthe time when the Government decidedthat a railway should be constructed tothis district, and there was great praisegiven to them in the English newspapersfor their very prompt action. I regretthat I was placed in the position of de-nouncing the Government because it ap-pears now that they have done very well.I lost sight of the sting in the tail ofthe motion, otherwise I should not havespoken as I did.

Question, as amended, put and passed.

BILL-LICENSING.Assembly's Message.

Message received from the LegislativeAssembly notifying that the amendmentsrequested by the Legislative Council hadbeen made. Consideration in Committeeresumed from 20th December, 1910.

In Committee, etc.Title--agreed to.Bill reported with amendments and the

report adopted.Read a third time and passed.

Sitting suspended from 6.5 to 6.10 p.m.

BIIL-COTTESLOE REACH RATESVALIDATION.

All Stages.Received from the Legislative Assembly

and read a first time.Hon. D. G. GAWLER (Metropolitan-

Subnrhan):- I move-That the Bill be now read a second

time.

Question put and passed.Bill read a second time.

In comnmittee, etc.Hon. W. Kingsniill in the Chair; Hon.

D. G0' Gawler in charge of the Bill.Clause 1:The CHAIR-MAN: There'were no mar-

ginal notes to the clauses, but if the hon.member in charge would give the marginalnotes to the Clerk they could he insertedat a later stage.

Hon. J. W. Lan gsford: Would the hon.member in diarge give the Committeesome information in regard to the mea-sure 9

Hon. fl. G. GAWLER: The Bill wasintended to validate certain proceedingswhich had been irregularly taken. Heunderstood that the Cottesloe board ofhealth had omitted certain formalities re-quired by the Roads Act, and this was ashort measure to legalise their actions.

Clause put and passed.Clause 2-agreed to.Bill reported without amendment, and

the report adopted.Head a third time and passed.

Sitting suspended from 6.15 to 7.30 p.m.

ADJOURN-MENT - COMLIMENT-ARY REMARKS.

The COLONI-AL SECRETARY (Hon.J. ID. Connolly) : We have completed ourlabours for this session. It is my in ten-tion to move that the House at its risingadjourn until 4.30 p.m. on the 17th in-stant. It is not intended on this occasionto follow the usual procedure and askHis Excellency to prorogue ParliamenL-It is intended to prorogue by proclamia-tion, and the adjournment is asked forto allow sufficient time for the Bills to bechecked. This will certainly not takeanything like a fortnight, but when thishas been carried out--and it can only bedone when the House is in session-aproclamation will be issued proroguingParliament; therefore, we shall not meetagain during the present session. Imove-

That the House at its rising do ad-jouryn until 4.30 p.m. on the 17thinstant.

3735

3736 (COUNCIL.]

Hon. J. M. DREW: I would Like todraw attention to the fact that there aretwo Hills on the Notice Paper which havenot been touched.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Iunderstand it is not the desire of theHouse to proceed further with these mat-ters. We have finished all the businessof the session.

Question passed.The COLONIAL SECRETARY: Be-

fore I move that the House do now ad-journ I would like to take the opportunityof conveying to you, ]%r. President, onbehalf of the House, and also more par-ticularly on my own behalf and that ofmy colleague, the Honorary M~inister, ourthanks for the unfailing courtesy that youhave extended towards members. This ismy sixth or seventh session as leader ofthe House, and during the whole of thattime you have occupied the position asPresident, and I have always receivedfrom you the greatest courtesy. I desirealso to express my thanks to Mr. Kings-mill, the Chairman of Committees, for hiscourtesy and his assistance to membersand myself. We usually adjourn atChristmas time and wish each other thecompliments of the season, but havinggone beyond that period we shall have, todepart from that procedure. On behalfof the House and on behalf of myself Ialso desire to express thanks to the Clerkand the Clerk Assistant for their assist-alice in all matters. IUdoubtedly thishas been a strenuous session, and natur-ally the work has fallen pretty heavily onthose officers. If one only looks at thegreat number of Bills which have beenpassed during the session it will be real-ised how strenuous the work has been foryourself, the Chairman of Committees,and the officers of the House. I haveagain to express my thanks to you, Mr.President, to Mr. Kingsmill, the Chair-man of Committees, and the officers of theHouse.

The PRESIDENT: I thank the Colo-nial Secretary, the leader of the House,for his kindly appreciation of the workof the officials of the Council, and of myown duties as President; and as pleasantrelations between hon. members and its

officers do much to further the efficiencyof our deliberations, I hope that suchamenities may long continue to grace Ott!public life.

Hon. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM1: Ialso want to congratulate the Presidenton the way in which he has carried outhis duties. The President has beenknown to me for a great many years andI know he carries out his duties to thebest of his ability. He has, I know, thewelfare of this House always at heart.I think I had the privilege almost ofintroducing him to Parliament, sincewhen he has developed a most wonder-ful capacity for grasping details in con-nection -with Parliamentary procedure.Therefore I have much pleasure in sec-onding the remarks which have beenmade by the Colonial Secretary, and tosay that I hope he will long be sparedto occupy the position he fills with thevery greatest ability.

The PRESIDENT: I have to thankSir Edward Wittenoom for the gracefulwords he has spoken, and I hope that Imay in the future be able to 61ll up thepicture which he has so flatteringlydrawn.

lIon. W. KINOGSMILL (Chairman ofCommittees) : I should like to thankthe leader of the House very hieartilyfor his extremely kind expression ofopinion regarding myself and the dutiesI have been able to fulfil in this House.My principal object, I may say my onlyobject in my capacity of Chairman ofCommittees, is to see that tihe work ofthis House is done as expeditiously andas efficiently as possible, and the assist-ance from hon. members which is alwaysforthcoming is a great factor towardsthat efficiency and expedition. After anexperience of some years in both HousesI feel that I am not in the least sayinganything derogatory to another placewh~en I mention that the work is donehere as efficiently as it is possible for itto be done- I thank Mr. Connolly veryheartily indeed for the kind expressionof opinion he has voiced on behalf ofthe House towards myself as Chairmanof Committees.

Hen. Sir E. H. WITTENOOM: Iomitted in the few remarks I made just

[3 FEBRUARY, 1911.] 3737

now to say liat our thanks are due tothe Colonial Serretary who has taken somuch trouble ininjt roducing measures tothis House, and I think he has succeededmost admirably. I am not going to saythat he does not make mistakes, I thinkhe made a couple of mistakes yesterday,but apart from those mistakes the C'ol-onial Secretary deserves the commenda-tion of lion, members for the capablemanner in) which lie has discharged theduties oif leader of the House, and forthe trouble hie has always taken in see-ing that all the measures are put beforemembers iii a clear manner. I have muchpleasure in saying that we all appreciatethe wit in which he has dealt with theBills which htave been placed before us.The Colonial Secretary, has had the ableassistance of the Honorary Minister. Iam quite certain that Mr. Mec~enzie isaslpiring in the course of time to fill theposition now occupied by the ColonialSecretary, andi if lie attains to that posi-tion, I am sure, having seen tile successfulway in which lie has introduced the fewBills of which he has been ia charge thissession, it will be with credit to himselfand to this House. I have pleasure.therefore, in putting on record our appre-cation of the services which the ColonialSecretary arid the Honorary Ministerhave rendered to this House.

The COLONIlAL SECRETARY:appreciate very touch the kind remar-ksmrade by Sir Edward Wittenoom, and Itrust that in the future my relations with(hie House will be as pleasing as they,have been in the past. Naturally, ofcourse, there is a good deal of workthrown on one occupying the position ofleader of the House, but, as Sir EdwardWittenoorn said, it has been lightenedvery considerahly this session by the as-sistance of miy colleague, 'Mr. McKenzie.That assistaiice T very much appreciate,and anyont, who has occupied this posi-tion will readily understand that to berelieved of a number of Bills (luring thestress of work at the end of the sessionis a very great help. I again thank SirEdward Wittenooni for the indly wisheshe has expressed.

Hon. R. D. McKENZIE (the Hon-orary Minister) : T, too, wish to express

my gratitude for the generous remarks ofSir Edwvard Wittenoom. I do not knowthat [ am aspiring to the position occul-pied by the Colonial Secretary; indeed,I bad no( idea of the amount of work hehad to 41o until I betcame ao HonoraryMinister. Nowv I am able to appreciatethe very si renolus iiature of the positionlie (till ties. andl the tremendous amountof energy atil application lie has to giveto his work in order to put the numerousBills before thle (C'hamber iii the waY liehas done. Sir Edward Wittenvornstated that the men who work hardestin Parliament are the leader of the Op-position and the leader of this House.I think we may say that the leader ofthis House is wvorked very much harderthan the leader of time Opposition, and,therefore, lie is thme hardest worked manin the Parliament of Western Australia.

Hlouse' adjourned at 7.45 p.m.

legislative Rssembly,Friday, 3rd February, 1Q11.

P.n.Urgency mnotain Railway fatality, M,'riup 37:38Questions: Butliergien fly at Collie..........3742

Railway Advisory Board, Wongan Hifl.Mullen Rni.R.................. 8742

PorcionaI explantion, Incorrect Press report .. 3742Bil: R.9adIsure, all stases........3748

Foads,' Council's amndments...........3744Loan, t2100OOOf, Returned ... ....... 750University. Council', amendments.........83710Criminal Code Act Amendment, Council's

amendments..... .. ,.............. 3751Constitution Act Amendment, Counilfs

amendment....................... 3753Mines and Machinery Inspection, 2R., Corn.,

3............................. 3755District ire Brigades Act Amendment, 2S.,

Con. .3a. ........... .... .7..Parlimentary allonumce, Council's Amend-

iiencts.......................... 3759Licensing, Council'. mess.......31Cotteaie Beach Rates aldation, 2R., Corn.,

3 . ............ ................ 3ViaPermanent Breres Rededication. Council'.

amendment.......................786Aborigines. Counci's Mlessge...........3754

Pariianmentary Dicing Room, Attendance 3766Close or Sessiotte of Bimess ......... 767Bill, retirned from theCouncil............3767Adjournment, Complimentary remarks......767

The SPEAKER took the Chair atlO'30 anm, and read prayers.