let's talk bitcoin e125

8/12/2019 Let's Talk Bitcoin E125

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Transcription of Episode 126 Make it Costly to be Big!

Participants:

Adam B Levine (AL) - Host

Andreas M. Antonopoulos (AA) - Co-Host

Thomas Hunt (TH) orldCr!pto"et#or$.com (intervie#s %hou Ton&ed)

%hou Ton&ed (%T) - Musician

Adam B Levine: Toda! is the ' thul! *+, this is episode +. This episode is

intended /or in/ormational and educational purposes onl!. Cr!ptocurrencies are a

ne# /orm o/ stud!. Consult !our local /uturist la#!er and investment advisor0e/ore ma$in& an! decisions.

elcome to Let1s Tal$ Bitcoin a t#ice #ee$l! sho# a0out ideas o/ people and

pro2ects 0uildin& the di&ital econom! and the /uture o/ mone!. M! name is Adam

B Levine and toda! #e1re 0ac$ in the 3o# this episode mar$s the start o/ our

+4 solution series /or the ne5t several episodes !ou1ll 6nd at least hal/ the

sho# devoted to intervie#s and discussions a0out the pro0lems o/ miner

centrali7ation and some o/ the proposed solutions.

Toda! #e $ic$ thin&s o8 #ith a conversation 9 had #ith Andreas a /e# #ee$s a&o

#e 0rie3! catch up on his pro2ects and then 2ump into the &hash.io controvers!

the true threat o/ the +4 attac$ and #hat 9t all means in the 0i& picture. Part

t#o o/ toda!1s sho# comes to us 0! #a! o/ Thomas over at

#orldcr!ptonet#or$.com at the recent Bitcoins in the Belt#a! event he cau&ht

up #ith the m!sterious Bitcoin musician %hou Ton&ed. The! tal$ ori&ins o/ music

tradin& and in3uences. n2o! the sho#.

AL: Andreas it1s 0een a #hile since #e1ve had !ou on the sho#. Ho#1re !ou

doin& man;

Andreas M. Antonopoulos: 91m doin& &reat it1s 0een rather 0us! and 9 had one o/

those li/e events movin& out o/ a house #hich #as stress/ul and timeconsumin& 0ut all is #ell and 91m reall! &lad to 0e 0ac$ on the sho#.

AL: Andreas !ou1re #or$in& on one o/ the comprehensive 0oo$s in the Bitcoin

space. iell! Media

#hich is one o/ the leadin& pu0lishers /or developers. The! have an e5cellent

series o/ 0oo$s #ith animals on the covers called the ?a/ari ?eries and Masterin&

Bitcoin is &oin& to come out as part o/ that. e have alread! &ot pre-sales up on

the =1>iell! #e0site and as 9 promised in the earl! da!s the 0oo$ is availa0le

under an open-source license so it is currentl! availa0le as an earl! release dra/t


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that people can 0u!. 9t1s also availa0le on @ithu0. People can &o and read it and

even do pull reuests su0mit issues a0out the 0oo$ and ma$e chan&es to it as

its 0ein& developed.

The! can see the development live the 6rst /our chapter are alread! pu0lished

and #e1re #or$in& on chapter 6ve #hich is a0out transactions. hat 91m loo$in&

at at the moment is to see i/ the communit! #ill contri0ute various code

snippets recipes 0its o/ code that demonstrate various concepts that 9 can

include in the 0oo$. 9 have received tremendous support /rom the communit! so

man! people have su0mitted 65es corrections and have added 0its o/ content.

9t1s &oin& ver! #ell #e e5pect it to 0e pu0lished #ithin the /all o/ *+,. "o# is

the 6nal stretch /or the 0oo$ 9 e5pect to 6nish it #ithin the ne5t t#o months and

a/ter that it #ill 0e availa0le in print an e-0oo$ as #ell as an online do#nload

under Creative Commons Attri0ution License so that an!one can read it share it

and even mash it up.

AL: ?o one o/ the other reasons !ou haven1t 0een on some o/ the recent sho#s is

0ecause !ou1re also teachin& a class at the "icosia Dniversit! it1s a M==C(Massive =pen =nline Course). 9s this somethin& that1s availa0le /or people at

this point;

AL:


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primitive a s!stem /or achievin& (0:06:060 idn"t #ear fe$ $ords%that has

man! man! 0road applications. Ho#ever it also has man! important

implications in economics 0usiness 6nance and la# so 9 love the /act that this is

a cross-discipline course as #ell as that it1s 0ein& ta$en ver! seriousl! as an

academic su02ect /or computer science students.

AL: ho is a course li$e this /or;

AL: 9t1s a ver! approacha0le and accessi0le course it1s not 2ust /or Computer

?cience students 0ut o0viousl! there are &oin& to 0e parts o/ the master1s

de&ree that are &oin& to 0e heavil! /ocused on so/t#are development /or

cr!ptocurrencies al&orithms and usin& the consensus al&orithm s!stem. But

those are elective the M==C itsel/ is introductor! it1s ver! open and accessi0le

to all and it allo#s people to &et a 0road understand over a period o/ +#ee$s

and + sessions o/ #hat cr!ptocurrencies are and ho# the! a8ect these various

areas and then introduces all these various areas. Jrom that point a student #ho

is interested in a computer science discipline can ta$e a course heavil! loaded on

so/t#are en&ineerin& elective #hereas a student #ho is more interested /ore5ample in 0usiness and 6nance ma! ta$e the same master1s de&ree #hich is

heavil! loaded #ith electives in 0usiness and 6nance.

AL: The course is /ree ho# lon& does it last;


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AL: The possi0ilit! is there no# that1s the thin& and it1s a possi0ilit!.

AL: The possi0ilit! o/ 0ein& hit 0! an asteroid is there too 0ut there is a di8erence

0et#een possi0ilit! and pro0a0ilit!. Bitcoin &oin& under a +4 attac$ is a

possi0ilit! 0ut it1s a ver! lo# pro0a0ilit! that it #ill happen. 9t1s a hi&hl!

impro0a0le event &iven the incentives the structure and possi0le 0ene6ts o/

doin& this and the ver! eas! to appl! counter measures a&ainst such an

eventualit!. 9 thin$ people &rasped the *4 num0er and see it as an ominous

#arnin& as a si&n o/ the end o/ Bitcoin #hich is ridiculous 0ecause there is a ver!

0i& di8erence 0et#een 6rst o/ all - achievin& *4 o/ the hashin& po#er in one

pool versus controllin& *4 o/ the hashin& po#er versus even more so that *4

o/ hashin& po#er 0ein& in the hands o/ dishonest miners #ho control it /ull! and

then launchin& a +4 attac$ #hich is an ultimate e5treme.

hat #e1ve seen is the 6rst o/ those #e have seen a pool 0rie3! reach *4 o/

the hashin& po#er 0ut it doesn1t mean the! control all o/ that hashin& po#er. 9t

also doesn1t mean that the!1re dishonest and it certainl! doesn1t mean that

the!1re launchin& a +4 attac$. ven i/ there had 0een a +4 attac$ a&ainstBitcoin 9 dispute the idea that it #ould have 0een the end o/ Bitcoin. 9 thin$ it

mi&ht have 0een a serious crisis in con6dence it mi&ht have a8ected the price in

short-term. 9t ma! have led to chan&es in the code and counter measures then

Bitcoin #ould 0e 0ac$ even i/ there #as a +4 attac$.

hat #e have here is nothin& o/ the sort #hat #e have here is a pool 0rie3!

reachin& *4 o/ the hashin& po#er throu&h a collection o/ the minin& po#er o/

man! miners.

AL: There are lots o/ di8erent #a!s !ou mentioned here that #e can 6nd

ourselves in a situation #here #e have this t!pe o/ crisis. 9t could 0e 0ecause it1s

a pool that has a lar&e amount o/ minin& po#er in it 0ecause it ma$es sense /or

minin& po#er to com0ine itsel/ into the lar&est pool as it means !ou 3atten out

the variance in terms o/ ho# man! Bitcoins !ou1re a0le to &enerate as !ou1re

hittin& more 0loc$s 0ut &ettin& less o/ each one.

That is in itsel/ a much less dan&erous thin& than i/ there #as a sin&le 0ad actor

out there that had *4 o/ the hashin& po#er in a #arehouse /ull o/ A?9Cs #ho

had the intention o/ doin& somethin& malicious. ith a pool as soon as someone

realises somethin& li$e this is &oin& on all the people #ho aren1t 0ad actors

#ho are 2ust in the pool 0ecause it1s the most pro6ta0le place /or them to 0e

the! #ill 2ump out and in practice 9 thin$ #e have seen this a couple o/ times. 9t1s

reall! interestin& ho# #e do hover around a hi&h ,*4 num0er.

AL: As !ou said 0ecause there are economic incentives that encoura&e people to

participate in pools that are success/ul that success leads to some de&ree o/

centrali7ation 0ut this is not centrali7ation o/ control this is centrali7ation o/ the

pool. This doesn1t mean that the pool has control over the destin! o/ the miners

or ho# that hashin& po#er is used the! onl! have that 0rie3! as lon& as the!

are supportin& the &oals o/ the miners that are economicall! via0le. 9/ the! at

an! time too$ advanta&e o/ that to do an!thin& ne/arious it #ould immediatel!

contravene the incentives o/ these miners and the! #ould a0andon the pool.

hat #e1ve seen is even the appearance o/ ris$ has led to miners leavin& the

pool and as a result i/ 91m loo$in& at the stats correctl! &hash.io is around '4.

The point is that people are con/used #hat !ou can do i/ !ou launch an attac$


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and this is nothin& to do #ith an attac$.


6/19

?o essentiall! three or /our 0loc$s that ever!0od! thou&ht #ere con6rmed

suddenl! &et orphaned and replaced 0! di8erent 0loc$s that e5tend the

Kancestor 0loc$ the 0loc$ that1s /our 0loc$s 0ac$ and e5tend it #ith a ne#

chain #ith three or /our ne# 0loc$s on top. The uestion is #hat transactions are

in these ne# 0loc$s i/ it1s e5actl! the same transactions nothin& chan&es. The

ris$ here is in orphanin& the old 0loc$s the! can introduce transactions thatcontradict transactions in the previous three 0loc$s onl! i/ the! (o$n&

0:1':))) those.

AL: 9/ a +4 attac$ happens durin& those si5 0loc$s that are &oin& to 0e

replaced and orphaned as !ou1ve said. 9 don1t do an!thin& #ith m! Bitcoin this

doesn1t a8ect me in an!#a! and it1s impossi0le /or it to a8ect me ri&ht;

AL:


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AL: 9t1s interestin& 0ecause even #ith di&ital items 9 $no# more merchants that

distri0ute di&ital items 0ased on 7ero con6rmations than 0ased on one. 9/ !ou1re

&oin& to #ait /or con6rmations most people tend to #ait /or a couple 0ut /or

di&ital items 0ecause there is no per item cost a lot o/ the times it1s easier to sa!

K=$ 9 see the mone! is comin& in 91ll &ive the product. 9t seems li$e the attac$

vectors /or this are prett! limited.

AL: The main attac$ vector /or this is to do a #ithdra#al o/ Bitcoin /rom an

e5chan&e and then to invalidate the #ithdra#al.

AL: =$ a&ain !ou1re not tal$in& a0out some random person !ou1re tal$in& a0out

the pool o#ner the person #ho is tar&etin& #hat the pool is doin&. The!1re the

onl! person #ho could actuall! pull somethin& li$e that o8 even i/ !ou1re a miner

#ho is *4 o/ it 0ecause !ou1re &ettin& #or$ /rom the pool. The pool is #hat is

actuall! controllin& it ri&ht;

AL: >i&ht the #a! the pool #or$s is that the! #ill send a 0loc$ template (as it1s

called) #hich &ives the instructions to start 0uildin& on top o/ this 0loc$ here isthe coin 0ase !ou should use /or it and here is the pa!-out address /or the pool.

Then each miner #ould put their o#n transactions in 0ased on #hat the!1ve

seen. ?o the pool o#ner could roll0ac$ that and instead o/ 0uildin& o8 o/ the

latest 0loc$ the! could 0uild one 0loc$ 0ehind /orcin& one o/ the e5istin& 0loc$s

that has 0een acceptin& 0roadl! 0! consensus to 0e orphaned #hen it1s

unnecessar!.

9 0elieve that certainl! in the case o/ di&ital items that ma! 0e a concern. ?o i/

&hash #ants to use dou0le-spend transactions to 0u! ustin Bie0er sin&les #hich

mi&ht 0e a stron& motivation /or a +4 attac$.

AL: Barrin& that there isn1t too man! thin&s !ou can do #ith it

AL: There are there is one more scenario. The other scenario is to use this to

invo$e a denial o/ service attac$ #hich means !ou purposel! invalidate 0loc$s

that are mined 0! other pools essentiall! shuttin& other pools out o/ the mar$et.

That hostile ta$eoverIa&&ressive action a&ainst the other pools means that the

other pools aren1t a0le to mine 0loc$s. ?o sa! that another pool operator sees

another pool success/ull! minin& a 0loc$ #ith a minorit! po#er an attac$er

could purposel! retar&et the minin& to a previous 0loc$ to orphan it. There/ore

essentiall! o0tainin& +**4 o/ all 0loc$s mined 0! that one pool.

AL: =$ so that attac$ vector is speci6call! a&ainst other minin& pools. 9t seems

that there are t#o primar! thin&s that can 0e done #ith a success/ul malicious+4 attac$ one is that !ou &o to an e5chan&e and tr! to dou0le-spend and

AL: And the other-side #ould 0e a denial o/ service attac$ a&ainst a pool or a

denial o/ service attac$ a&ainst a speci6c recipients transactions. Jor e5ample

!ou could sa! Kan!time 9 see a transaction &oin& to a speci6c part! 91m &oin& to

orphan the 0loc$ that the transaction is in in order to invalidate it hurtin& a

speci6c recipient 0! ma$in& it impossi0le /or them to receive an! Bitcoin

0ecause an!time the! tr! to receive Bitcoin the 0loc$ the transaction is in &ets

orphaned. But a&ain it is ver! diFcult to do this in a su0tle #a! /or t#o reasons

the 6rst 0ein& 0ecause ever!0od! is #atchin& ver! care/ull! especiall! as pools

&et closer to +4 their activit! is scrutini7ed ver! care/ull!. ?econdl! 0ecause i/!ou1re tr!in& to do some cartel action li$e this there #ould 0e a&&rieved parties


8/19


9/19

AL: e tried to &et Peter Todd on toda!1s sho# to have a conversation a0out this

0ecause amon& other thin&s #hat 9 hope people ta$e a#a! /rom this is that the

#a! Bitcoin is set-up ri&ht no# #here #e pa! a sin&le 0loc$ re#ard to a sin&le

individual #hich has led to all o/ these pools. e don1t see in practice people

havin& &i&antic /arms #ith the intention o/ ta$in& over the Bitcoin (e*pire&

0:2+:2+') 0! themselves. But #e do see this possi0le 0! the #a! that pools areset-up ppool is a solution 0ut it1s a less eFcient solution /or a variet! o/

reasons. The least o/ #hich 0ein& !ou have to run !our o#n node meanin& !ou

have to have a /ull cop! o/ the Bitcoin 0loc$chain #hereas #ith a pool !ou don1t

there is more to do #hen usin& ppool than there is usin& normal pools.

hat 91d hope to see come /rom this is more attention to 0e paid to tree chains

0ecause tree chains is the 6rst protocol su&&estion 9 have seen that reall! loo$s

as thou&h it can 0rin& solo minin& 0ac$ #ithout /undamentall! reinventin& the

#heel or as$in& people to 0u! ne# hard#are. That1s the thin& that 9 hope that

#e can use this as an opportunit! to thin$ a0out #hat the incentives are pushin&

people to do and to hope/ull! ma!0e tr!in& to chan&e the protocols so theincentives are a little 0it 0etter.

AL: 9 thin$ it1s important to realise that tree chains are not the onl! #a! to solve

that there are man! other recommendations such as usin& &host protocol as

another approach. There are proposals that involve splittin& the re#ard so that

the #innin& 0loc$ &ets a hi&h percenta&e o/ the re#ard 0ut an! orphaned 0loc$s

that have achieved the proo/ o/ #or$ al&orithm 0ut /or #hatever reason didn1t

propa&ate as /ast to also &et a percenta&e o/ the re#ard this is the &host

protocol. The &host protocol model simpl! reali&ns the incentives in such a #a!

that it1s #orth minin& more /rom 0loc$s 0ecause !ou &et some re#ard #hich

ends up smoothin& out the variance in re#ard and lessenin& the need /or pools.

There are reall! t#o /orces in action here one is the centrali7ation caused 0! the

densit! A?9Cs and rapid development o/ A?9C technolo&! that leads to some

centrali7ation in minin& #hich is not necessaril! a 0ad thin&. Because the

alternative li$e #e have said 0e/ore is 0otnet minin& so !ou have stri$e a

0alance 0et#een those t#o e5tremes. ust this #ee$ #e sa# an article on Ars

Technica that tal$s a0out a hac$er #ho used the 6rm#are inside net#or$

attached stora&e devices to run script miners and compromise thousands o/

stora&e devices in corporate oFces used them to mine Eo&ecoin and made

a0out Q***** #orth o/ Eo&ecoin in 2ust a /e# da!s o/ minin&. That1s the ris$ o/

&oin& to CPD /riendl! minin& the amount o/ CPD l!in& around that1s eas! to

compromise in &randpa and &randmas des$top and attached and em0eddeddevices li$e routers stora&e s!stems etc is immense. "ot onl! can !ou have

0otnet minin& 0ut !ou can also have rent a +4 attac$ #here !ou could rent a

massive 0otnet and use it to &ain a si&ni6cant percenta&e o/ the pool minin&.

Those are the ris$s a&ainst A?9C centrali7ation so !ou have to loo$ at this as a

compromise as A?9Cs do provide some 0ene6ts.

The second thin& !ou have is centrali7ation 0ecause o/ the pool d!namic or the

pool economic incentives #hich is that i/ !ou mine alone !ou1re pla!in& a lotter!

#here !ou #in rarel! and !ou lose a lot so !ou have to 0e in it /or the lon& &ame.

That1s a ver! diFcult #a! to amorti7e the costs or the investment that !ou have

in A?9C hard#are so !ou1re ta$in& a ver! hu&e ris$ i/ !ou1re pla!in& that $ind o/lotter! &ame. hereas i/ !ou mine as part o/ a pool and the 0i&&er the pool the


10/19


11/19

9/ !ou #ould li$e to use !our LTB coin to sponsor the Let1s Tal$ Bitcoin sho# and

have me spend a little time e5plainin& !our pro2ect on an upcomin& episode

head over to letstal$0itcoin.com and select Ksponsor /rom the LTB coin re#ards

pro&ram menu. =nce a pro2ect #ins this it &ives me an e5cuse to learn a0out the

pro2ect and share m! thou&hts on it #ith !ou. =n the other hand !ou have no

editorial control #hat-so-ever 0ut then a&ain it1s not reall! an advertisement0ecause o/ that so it1s almost certainl! more use/ul /or our listeners and i/ !ou1re

pro2ect is actuall! neat 91m &oin& to sa! nice thin&s a0out it. ither #a! there is

no #or$ /or !ou to doin& it unli$e a standard advertisement spot #here !ou have

to &ive me a script.

An!thin& 9 don1t #ant to tal$ a0out #ill 0e re/unded 0asicall! &am0lin& adult

content and an!thin& that smells li$e a scam to me don1t as$ me to tal$ a0out

penn! auctions. Than$s /or pa!in& attention durin& the part o/ the sho# that

pa!s the 0ills.

(End of advertisements)

AL: "o# the mad Bitcoins intervie# #ith %hou Ton&ed.

%hou Ton&ed: @ooooooooooood mornin& Bitcoins this is mad Bitcoins live #ith

%H=DDD T="@EEE. Ho#1re !ou &u!s doin&;

Thomas Hunt: e1re doin& &ood man 9 en2o!ed !our concert !esterda!.

%T: Than$ !ou 91m &lad.

TH:


12/19

%T:


13/19

%T: "o industr! is immune to controvers! and to people 0ein& shad! the /act

that #e cau&ht it earl! on a&ain &oin& 0ac$ to Bitcoinica (one o/ the mar&in

tradin& sites) #e too$ a 0i& hit and %hou Ton&ed too$ a hu&e hit on that one.

But #e survived #e1re still here. There has 0een a lot o/ di8erent controvers!

#ith Bitcoins di8erent &overnments 0annin& it and ta$in& it 0ac$ ta$in& 0ac$

#hat the! said are no# implementin& and #antin& a piece the ins and outs andall o/ that. The /act #e1re still here sho#s that the technolo&! spea$s /or itsel/

and it #ill never &o an!#here. hether Bitcoin is or *** people #ill still

0e usin& it it1s 2ust &oin& to ta$e time /or an!one to reall! learn it.

Ma!0e alon& the line pro&rammers can 6&ure out #a!s to tr! and ma$e it a little

more user /riendl! 0ut at the same time people should 0e learnin& !ou should

#ant to learn. ver!thin& is computers no# ne# technolo&! 0ein& 0uilt i/ !ou1re

not educatin& !oursel/ on ne# technolo&ies (then 9 don1t $no#)

TH: Teach !our /amil! and /riends too 9 $no# 91m tired o/ removin& sp!#are 91m

tired o/ settin& up people1s computers 0ut Bitcoin is a #hole ne# thin&. 91m

e5cited to setup people1s #allets to &ive them a dollar to sho# them ho#Coin0ase #or$s or #hichever site !ou #ant to use.

9t1s e5citin& it1s the /uture and it is individual adoption. e need to &et our

mothers 0rothers and sisters into Bitcoin #e need to 0e a0le to &et our

shoppin& online #ith this. ust tr!in& Bitcoin out and havin& /un #ith it it doesn1t

have to 0e a lar&e investment 2ust tr! it out.

%T: A0solutel! 9 did that. 9 have 0een a Bitcoin a0andoner so to spea$ the last

couple o/ !ears. This last !ear 9 have li&htened up a little 0it 9 thin$ 9 &ot a little

0urnt out. 9 thin$ 9 told ever!0od! #ho 9 needed to tell a0out it the 6rst person

that schooled me on it told me KThis is li$e &oo&le +* !ears 0e/ore it came out

and it1s 2ust &oin& to ta$e time to implement. The person that told me this

technolo&! is ama7in& and #ill do ama7in& thin&s is pro0a0l! on m! net#or$

one o/ the smartest people 9 $no#. He1s a computer scientistIen&ineer #ho

dissected the protocol loo$ed at the led&er and sa# that this is reall! &oin& to 0e

somethin&. 9t1s li$e a #ise man tellin& !ou to tr! it out.

e1ve 0een #ith Bitcoin since it s#itched /rom minin& #ith !our CPD to minin&

#ith &raphics cards. 9 remem0er m! 0udd! callin& me and tellin& me KBro 9 need

&raphics cards please send me some he #as 0uildin& his o#n units himsel/

tr!in& to mine /or coins. A&ain this is #hen #e #ere at a /e# dollars a coin

ever!0od! #as tr!in& to scream and tell ever!0od! and the! do listen. But until

the! see it /or themselves people #ould rather see it 0ein& success/ul ratherthan 0elievin& #ithout seein& and then the! sa# it. hen #e pea$ed at QQ all

o/ a sudden people #ho didn1t #ant to listen to us start callin&.

TH: 91ll tell !a 91m one o/ those people. 9 $ne# a0out Bitcoin /rom the 0e&innin&

thou&ht a0out 0u!in& 0ut never did 0ecause 9 didn1t read enou&h a0out it. Then

#hen it 6nall! 0ro$e throu&h 9 had reall! missed the 0oat and 9 2ust tried to &et

into it as hard-core as 9 could 0! doin& the sho# tal$in& a0out it as much as 9

could tellin& ever!0od! 9 $no#.


14/19

e started out #ith minin& and a lot o/ people seemed to 0u! minin& cards

instead o/ 2ust 0u!in& the Bitcoin and a lot o/ people seem to re&ret this. e

have 0ou&ht a /e# miners in the last !ear or so and #e should have 0ou&ht the

Bitcoins

%T:


15/19

and 9 $ne# a&ain that 9 didn1t #ant to lose the coin. 9 $ne# the technolo&! #as

&oin& to 0e there so 9 didn1t &ive up #hen 9 &ot %hou Ton&ed. Eon1t &ive up on

this technolo&! 0ecause this technolo&! is &oin& to 0e unstoppa0le #ithin the

ne5t 6ve !ears !ou 2ust have to 0e patient. 91m learnin& patience m!sel/ 0ut 9

$ne# 9 didn1t #ant to lose on the technolo&! and 9 didn1t #ant to miss out i/

Bitcoin did s$!-roc$et so the minute 9 had a chance to 2ump into Bitcoin 9 2umpedin a&ain. But !es m! vie#s are a little di8erent and /rom #hen put out those

tradin& son&s #e &ained a /an 0ase so #e #anted to spea$ #e #anted to

e5pand o8 o/ that to have /un #ith it.

TH: ell !ou1re helpin& &ro# the Bitcoin throu&h the music a lot o/ people that

aren1t into it mi&ht hear the son&s and then chec$ Bitcoin out so it1s a ne# #a!

to spread the #ord.

%T: A0solutel! 9 thin$ that music is the 0est #a! o/ passin& them messa&e on 9

en2o! doin& it and the communit! has accepted us and loved us it 2ust ma$es

me #ant to do more to put more music out. 91ve spo$en to a couple o/ people in

the communit! and #e1re #antin& to put to&ether a Bitcoin music /estivalpossi0l! even annuall!. 9/ #e can do t#o a !ear it #ould 0e cool 0ut even i/ #e

had it once a !ear and tried #ithin the ne5t si5 months to &et the 6rst annual

/estival out /or the !ear 9 thin$ it #ould 0e reall! cool. 9t #ould 0e the same $ind

o/ thin& as the conventions #here !ou &et some vendors !ou &et some people

sellin& Bitcoins and !ou1d have the music that $eeps that $eeps the ener&! up

and &oin&. e1ve &ot a /e# musicians up alread! in the industr!: Tatiana m!sel/


16/19

point that 9 #anted to ma$e 0ein& a0le to allo# people to reall! see #hat #e1re

sa!in&. e didn1t even $no# that #e #ere &oin& to 0e per/ormin& these son&s.

e 2ust started videos #e1re 2ust doin& /un videos and that #as the one thin&

that 9 #anted to ma$e sure that 9 did #as put the #ords up. 9 thin$ that #as reall!

cool. 9 thin$ that #as #hat made me a 0i& /an o/


17/19

%T: Charlie ?hrem1s 0ar in "e#


18/19

%T: Actuall! Charlie ?hrem as$ed me a0out Chica&o. 9 told him 9 #ould 0e #illin&

to do it so an!0od! on that committee #or$in& at the convention #e1d love to

do a set over there. e could de6nitel! do that. Jor the last couple o/ !ears

#e1ve 0een a little more m!sterious and have not reall! sho#n /ace so much.

That1s somethin& that #e #ant to chan&e a little 0it this !ear ta$in& %hou Ton&

to the ne5t level. e #ant to 0e #ith the /ans. 9 #ant to 0e #ith 0itcoiners. 9 #antto 0e involved 9 #ant !ou &u!s to see me at more o/ these events. 9 #ant to do

some more sho#s an!thin& that 9 can do to help promote 0ecause li$e #e said

0e/ore music is an eas! #a! to send the messa&e out /or an! event even i/ it1s

a small event 91m #illin& and open to do an!thin& in the Bitcoin communit! that

the! #ould li$e me to do to help out. 91m all /or it.

TH: Have !ou ever thou&ht a0out pla!in& Bitcoin meetups; ?omethin& li$e that;

9t1s uite small time.

%T:


19/19

Bitcoinica #as in liuidation and no# Mt. @o5 is &one. 9 don1t thin$ 91ll ever &et

that mone! a&ain #hich #as uite a 0it 0ut 91ve not &iven up 91m not &oin& to

&ive up on the technolo&! or 0itcoin. 9t1s a loss 0ut a hu&e learnin& lesson a

hu&e learnin& lesson.

TH: ell it1s 0een a &reat intervie# 91d li$e to than$ !ou ver! much /or comin&

on and 9 ver! much en2o!ed !our sho#. 9t1s 0een a &reat con/erence Bitcoin in

the Belt#a! and until ne5t time 0!e 0!e

%T: B!e &u!s.

+:*,:U Credits

AL: Than$s /or listenin& to pisode + o/ Let1s Tal$ Bitcoin. Content /or this sho#

is provided 0! Adam B. Levine Andreas M. Antonopoulos and Thomas Hunt. This

episode #as edited 0! Adam B. Levine. Music /or toda!1s sho# #as provided 0!

ared >u0ens (http:IIsoundcloud.comI2aredru0ens) and C!rusJY

(http:IIsoundcloud.comIc!rus/5). An! uestions or comments; @et involved over

at the /orums at Letstal$0itcoin.com and start earnin& some o/ that s#eet s#eet

LTB coin /or !oursel/. 91ll see !ou there.
http://soundcloud.com/jaredrubenshttp://soundcloud.com/cyrusfxhttp://soundcloud.com/jaredrubenshttp://soundcloud.com/cyrusfx

let's talk bitcoin e125

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