Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 18 AUGUST 1931

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Questions. 313

TUESDAY, 18 AUGUST, 1.931.

Mt. SPEAFER (Hon. C. Taylor, H'indsor) look tLe chair r1t 2.30 p.m.

QUESTIO:\"S.

ST.\TE Sc.riOLAnsnrp ExA~liNATIO~.

::\Ir. HAc-!LON (lthara) asked the Scc,·c­tar.)· £01· Public lmtructicn-

" 1. How many candidates nmninated for the las't schoiarship examination. and what number was successful in obtaining a qualifying pass 1

"2. I-Io 1.Y many scholarshins -;vere granted to a pp roved secondary· schools?

" 3. In the case of a successful candi­date, who has secured a echolarship en­titling s'uch candidate to elect to take out the scholarship at an .approved secondary school, continuing his studies at ''· State high school, has the depart· mcnt followed the practice of offering

314 QueBtions. [ASSEMBLY.] QueBtionB.

additional scholarships to candidates next on the list in order of merit, ancl thus enable approved secondary schools to eecure their full quota of scholarships?

" 4. Has the department any informa­tion as to the number of students who obtained a qualifying pass at the ex­amination, and who have continued their studies at approved secondary s'chools as a result of scholarships made available to them by the schools in question?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I::\­STRUCTION (Hon. R. M. King, Logan) replied-

" 1. 6,392 candidates nominated; 5,962 oat; and 1,865 qualified.

" 2. 1,003 scholarships. " 3. Those candidates who were

a warded full scholarships were entitled to attend any approved secondary school selected by them.

"'4. No."

CHARGE FOR INFORMATION IN RE TEACHERS' EARNINGS.

Mr. HANLON (Ithaca) asked the Secre­tary for Public Instruction-

" 1. Is it a fact that the Department of Public Instruction is imposing a fee of 2s. 6d. before information is supplied to teachers and other officers in the de­partment as to the amount o£ their salary and earnings for the last financial year·?

"2. If so, ancl in view of the fact that the particulars are desired for income tax purpos'es, will he consider the aues­tion of ·remitting this additional impost?"

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION (Hon. R. M. King, Logrm) replied-

" 1. Yes. " 2. The preparation of the particulars

inYolvos a considerable amount of time and, as the work cannot be done by the staff of the Accountant's Branch during ordinary office hours, overtime must be paid. I do not consider the fee of 2s. 6d. to be unreasonable under the circum­stances. Surely there is some personal obligation on the pa-rt of the officers to keep a correct record of their salaries and earnings fOr income tax purposer,;."

APPREN'!'IOESHIP IxDENTURES.

Mr. W. FORU:AN SMITH (Jiackay) aoked (he Secretar0 for Labour and Industry-

" 1. ·what was the nu::nber of youths actually indentured as apprentices as at (a) 30th June, 1929, and (b) as at 30th June, 1931?

"2. Of those apprentices whos'e inden­tures were current during the period between the dates mentioned in (1), what was the number (a) whose apprentice­ship was suspended as a result of being 'stood down,' and (b) whose indentures have been completely cancelled for rea­sons other than the completion of the period of apprenticeship?

"3. What is the number of appren­tices at pre&ent indentured 11·ho arc suffering a period of rationed employ­ment or apprenticeship, and what is the a Yerage extent of the rationing?"

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND INDUSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate) replied-

" 1. (a) At 30th June, 1929, 4,466; and (b) at 30th June, 1931, 3,324.

"2. (a) 1,277; and (b) 377.

" 3. 409. Average extent of rationing is approximately half time."

APPRENTICES INDENTURED TO DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WORKS.

Mr. W. FORGAN SMITH (Mackay) asked the Secretary for Public Works-

" 1. What was the number of appren­tices indentured to the· Public Works De­ment as at 30th June, 1929?

"2. Vlhat is the number at present serving their apprenticeship under the department, and in what manner has the remainder-as referred to in (1)-been dealt with?

" 3. Of the apprentices indentured to the department as at 30th June, 1929, and subs'cquently transferred to other employers, what is the number of sue~ who have since been ' stood down and for who are suffering a period of rationecl employment or apprenticeship'?

" 4. Has the department ' stood down ' any of its indentured apprentices dur­ing the period under review, or has the dci1art1rent cancelled any of the articles of indenture for reasons other than the completion of the period of apprentice­ship or on account of the transfer of the indentures? If so, what is the number of s'uch cases?"

The SEORETATIY FOR PUBLIC WORKS (Hon. R. l\1. King, Logan) replied-

" 1. Seventy-two (72). "2. (a) Eleven (11), including two (2:

ne" apprentices who commenced with the Depa-rtment since 30th June, 1929. (b) Three (3)-temporaril:v transferred. Twenty-one (21)--transferred to other em­ployers. Three (;>;)-indentures cancelled at the request of the apprentices and guardians concerned. Thirty-six (36)­indcnturcs expired since 30th June, 1929.

"3. One. "4. Yes; four (4) have at times been

' stood down.' all of whom were trane­ferred to other employers; two of them arc still with other employers, n.nd one returned to the department and is now in rcgula.r employment; the remaining a.pprentice is in the Hughenden district, and, after being transferred to a private employer, he returned to the department and has been ' stood down ' from time to time owiLg to lack of work."

i\IR. P. J. SnrEs AND SuGGESTED ADDJTIONAL VOTE TO ELECTORS OVER THIRTY-FIVE

YE.\RS OF AGE.

Mr. BEDFORD (1Varrcgo) asked the Premier-

" 1. Has his attention been drawn to the article appearing in the Brisbane 'Daily Mail' of Wednesday, 5th August, wherein :Mr. P. J. Symes, who is uuder­stood to be a prominent member of the.

Questions. [18 AuGusT.] Questions. 315

Constitutional Club, sets out the advo­cacy of an alleg·ed ' representative com­mittee ' on the question of legislating to grant ,qn additional vote to electors oYer the age of thirty-five years?

"2. Have any representations been made to the Government on this sub­ject? If so, will he state by whom, and the Government's attitude thereon?

" 3. Will the Premier also have inquiry made for the purpose of ascertaining (a) the personnel of the so-called ' repte­sentativ3 committee' on whose behalf Mr. P. J. Symes purports to speak, and (b) whether the ' representative com· mittee ' referred to is identical with, or similar in their aims and aspirations to, the self-appointed Fascisti group mas­querading under the title of ' The Vigilants,' who came into prominence last year?"

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, .{ubigny) replied-

" 1. No. "2. No.

" 3. :':\ o good purpose would be served by having such inquiry made."

APPLICATIONS UNDER " THE INDcSTRIEs ASSISTANCE AcT."

:\Ir. BEDFORD (1VmTcgo) asked the Pren1ier-

.. 1. How many applications were re­ceived for Governmental assistance under the provisions of ' The Industries Asbistance Act of 1929 ' during the last financial year?

" 2. What number of such applications wen' approved, and for what amom.t?

'· 3. What is the total number of appli­cations dealt with under this measure 'ince the inception of the Act, and what i, ihe total amount of advances made thereunder during the san1e period?''

Th<' PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, .luhi[!ny) replied-

.. 1 to 3. The information will be con­tained in the Annual Report of the Indus­tries Assistance Board, which will be tabled during the present Lssion of Par­liarnent."

ALLEGED APPOINTMENT OF MR. HOY LING TO Co:-.DIISSIQ}f OF PEACE AND TARA HOSPITAL { 'O>DJ:J1'TEE.

Mr. BEDFORD (TVarrego) asked the Pr0mier-

,, 1. Is Mr. Hoy Ling appointed by the pre oont G OYernment to the Commission of the Peace, and als'o as Government rr·prescntative on the Tara Hospital Com· tr::ittee in place of an A_ustralian \vho was C+overnment representative on the hospi­tal committee at Tara in the time of the Labour Government, tho same 1-Iov Ling who was Government intorprete~ at I\1elbourne, and was fined for accept­ing bribes from Chinese immigrants?

" 2. If he is the same Hoy Ling who was prosecuted in Melbourne for the oft(: nee n1entioncd, does tho Government considt'r him a fit holder of the Com­mi"ion of the Peace?"

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moor<', A. ubigny) replied-

" 1. The hon. member ha.s evidently been misinformed. Mr. Harry Edward Hoyling, grazier, of Tara, is the Govern­ment Representative on the Tara Hos­pital Committee, and he was appointed to the Commission of the Peace by the previous Government after a favourable police report had been obtained in the usual manner.

" 2. See answer to No. 1."

REDrCTION BY BANKS OF INTEREST ON PRIVATE

OvERDRAFTS.

Mr. HANLOK (lthaca) asked the Premier-

" 1. Has he seen in the press of 6th instant the statement by the Premier of Victoria that the Associated Banks of Victoria have agreed to reduce the interest on private overdrafts by 1 per cent. before 1st October?

" 2. As this' action by the banks is the result of the Victorian Premiee carrying out the spirit of the plan of tho recent Premiers' Conference, will he take steps to compel the Queensland banks to give similar relief to our Queensland citizens?"

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore. .{ubi[lny) replied-

" 1 and 2. The intentions of the Queens­land banks will be announced in the near future.''

STATION HA:SDS. AWARD.

Mr. BRASSIJ\'GTO:t\ (Balonne) asked the Premier-

" 1. In view of statements made in this House disclosing the wages· and con· ditions under which station hands are working, and also that the Industrial Court has prescribed a basic wage for the State, does he favour station hands receiving a living ,-;;age?

" 2. As wealthv and powerful pastoral companies have

0

recei,-ed valuable con­cessions from the Government, will he give station hands justice by placing them under an award?"

The PREMIER (Hon. A. E. Moore. .~ubigny) replied-

" 1 and 2. I have already answered this question in various guises during the present session of Parliament."

'[ED1:C1IO:S OF S \LARIES OF Jliln!BERS OF r AR­LLDrENT; )_._DJOCRX:.\fE:\1' OVER EXH~BITIOX.

Mr. DUNLOP (RocNwmrdon) asked the Pren1ier-·

" 1. In cmmectjon with the likely redu('tjon of parliamcnt:1.ry salaries, is he correctly reported in the ' C'ourier ' of 6th August, when it state'~ ' it was recognisc:l qnite defmitely that if there was to be anv reduction of the salaries of Parlia­m~ntarians it must be on the sa.n1e basis as that of the public service.' If so, is he ~-;utisficd that the anE:,Yer he gaye to me

316 Questions. [A,SSElVIBLY.] Questions.

'vhcn the Conversion Bill was being dis­cussed at the recent special session of Parliament '\vas wrong?

" 2. Is it intended to adjourn Parlia­ment oyer Exhibition 1veek, and, i£ so, dorJ he think this fair when one takes into a.r,-otmt that all public servants usu­ally gBt a day or two half-days and shoulcl we not also treat ourselves the same?"

The PRE~IIER (Hon. A. E. Moore, .-iubigny) replied-

" 1. The Government's intentions will be disclose·d in due course.

" 2. The hon. member appears to be unaware that Exhibition week is past."

L':\K\!PLODIEKT I;;Sl'RANCE FUND BALANCES AXD PAY~!EXTS.

:.\lr. BIUJCE (TC• •wcrly) asked the Score­tar.•· for Labovr a 1d Industrr-

·' 1. \Yhat were the balances in thB Unemployment Insurance Fund as at the nndermcntioncd dates, viz.-30th June, 1929, 1930, and 1931, respective!:;·?

"2. \Vhat was the total amount paid in unemplo:-·ment SHstenancB from the fund dnring each of the years ended 30th ,J unc, 1929, 1930, and 1G31 respectively?"

The SEC'RET \RY FOH LABOUR AND I:c-;DUSTRY (Hon. II. E. Sizer, Sandgate) replied-

" 1. At 30th June, 1929. credit balance, £62.837 10s. 4d.; at 30th June, 1930, credit balance. £35.784 17s. 10d.; and at 30th June, 1831, debit balance, £28,069 14s. 2d.

' · 2. During ~ear ended 30th June. 1929, £414,257 3s. 9d. ; during year ended 30th .J uno, 1930, 494.483 15s. Sd. ; and during year ended 30th June, 1931, £492,116 15s. lld.''

ExPEXDiTl'RE o;; OcTDOOR RELIEF, 1930-31.

:\Ir. BRCCE (IicnnCI!p) asked the Secre­tary for La.uonr and Indus try-

"\Yhat \• as tlw e•:pcnditure on outdoor relief during the financial :-·car ended 30th June last, allocated as betwBen (a) expcnditwe 011 relief rations; (b) exnenditure on relief rations operating through the intermittent relief scheme?"

The SECilETAHY FOR LABOUR AND IXDUSTRY (Hon. II. E. Sizer, Sandgate) replied-

" (a) £199,609 ls. 7d.; arcd (IJ) from and including 23rd March to 30th June, £ fg,122 16s. ild."

AGRTCcLTccRAL B•,;;K--APPLICITIOXS AXD AD\'AKCES.

:.\Jr. CO:\ROY (.liamnna) asked the S0cre-1a17 for Agriculhlrf' a.nd Stock-

" 1. IIow n1any applications 'vere received f0r finaucial assistance fron1 the ~Agricultural Bank during la-,t financial year, and in what n1anner were such dea.lt ·with, such as approvals, etc.?

" 2. What was the total of advances r-ctuall:.- made r.lnring th;~ period in ques­tion?"

The SECRETARY FOH AGRICULTURE (Hon. H. F. Walker, Gooroora) replied-

"1. Number received-AgTicultural Bank

Acts Discharged Soldiers'

Sett'lement Act

~umber approved-Agricultural Bank

Acts Discharged Soldiers'

Settlement ~\et

Xumber declined-Agricultural Bank

Acts Discharged Soldiers'

Settlement Act

::\umber cancelled or withdrawn-

1,985

85 2,070

1,363

72 1,435

475

13 488

Agricultural Bank Acts ~.. .. . . 106

Number in abeyance pending receipt in­spectors' reports, otc.-

..'\gricultural Bank A~ U

Amount approved-Agricultural Bank

Ac:- ~~· ... £328,006 Discharged Soldiers'

Settlement Acts 10,428 £338,434

"2. Advancee, actually paid-£ -'·d.

·Agricultural Bank Acts 172,532 6 3 Discharged Soldiers'

Settlement Act 16,996 14 4

£189.529 0 7

~• Excludes £98,522 4s. 3d. pro forma advances to release mortgages lo State Advances Corporation on the conversion of existing loans and consolidation there­of with further advances under the A~ricultural Bank Acts; also on the tr~mfcr of existing liabilities under the Acts from one settler to another. not charged against bank vote."

TOLL BRIDGES AXD ROADS.

:\lr. POLLOCK (Gregory) asked the Sec­retary for Railways-

" 1. How many toll bridges or roads arc now in existence in Queensland"?

" 2. 'Yha t ,, ,ts the aggrcga tc toll col­lections dcri•·ecl from these public facili­ties, if a11,v, during the last financi~l year, and "hat as the cost of colle0 tmg the satnc ?"

The SECRETARY FOil R UL\YAYS (Hon. Godfrcy :\1organ, Jiurilla) replied-

,, 1. Thrt:2-Tarnbourine ]}lountain road, Cairm Tableland road, and togan bridge.

"2. Tdrribm.u·jne (from l;,t August~7 1930, to 30th .J u;1c, 1931)-Gross tr;lls, £633 3s. 9d. ; and costs of collectwn, £204 Is. 2•1. Cairns Tr hie! and (frcm 1st September, 1930. to 30th J Lme, 1931)­Gross tolls, £914 3s.; and costs of col­lection, £622 5s. 5d. The Cairns Table­land costs include costs of gatAkeepers

Questions. [ (18 AUGUST.] Suggested Question of Privilege. 317

v. ho also control traffic on the range sec­tion. No additional cost has been incurred by adding the collection of tolls to their duties. Logan bridge-Toll col­lcction commenced cts from 1st J ul v. 1931."

0

•

JYluERJALO CsED r:<; FonEs'rRY Snownoo:.vrs, GEORGE STREET.

Mr. DUNLOP (Roclchampton) asked the Sccrda.l'J" for Public Vl"orks-

" Vvi th reference to previous answers Lrnished re the Forestry Showrooms in Gcorge street, is it r,ot a fact that about 50 p<lr cent. of the frontage of this build­ing is principally hardwood and pine, and the balance fiqro-cement, and being within a first-class section does not comply with certain fire protection conditions?"

The SECRETARY FOR FGBLIC WORKS (Hon. R. M. King, Logan) replied- ·

·'The work in question consisted of an alteration to an existing structure, and, cxcepting the joinery of the necessarv doors, windows, and cover battens to f\bro-ccment sheeting, no additional tim­ber construction was used in remodelling the exterior of the front of the building. The hon. member's previous question on this matter indicated that his concern was that sufficient use had not been made of timber construction, seeing that it was a work for the Forestry showroom; his present question suggests that he has changed his attitude, and he now infers that too much timber construction has Lecn used."

ALLOCTIOX OF ExPENDITuRE ON UNEMPLOY­

MENT RELIEF.

:\lr. PEASE (H e1'bcrt): I desire to ask the Sccrelary for Labour and Industry if he can g-i Ye m c a reply to the following question, "·hich I adclres,;ed to him on the 6th instant-

" ',Yhat is the amount allocated for relief of unemployment from 1st July, 1930, to 30th June, 1931, from-(a) Con­solidated Revenue Account; (b) Loan Fnnd Account; (c) Federal Government grant or loans; and (d) unemployment relief tax?"

The SECRETARY FOR LABOUR AND I:-.JDCSTRY (Hon. H. E. Sizer, Sandgate) replied-

" {a) From consolidated Tevenue account, out­door relief rationE ...

(b) From loan fund account, being loans advanced to local authorities

(c) From Federal Go­vernment grant

(d) From relief tax fqnd

£ s. d.

199,609 1 7

34,110 0 10

73,000 0 0

700,012 7 10

Total . £1,006,731 10 3 In addition to which there was paid from unemployment insurance fund the sum of £492,116 15s. lld.-a total of £1,498,848 6s. 2d. for the financial year ended 30th June, 1931."

PAPERS.

The following papers were laid on the table:-

Annual Report of the Directors of The Union Trustee Company of Australia, Limited.

Report by Government Analyst and Chief Inspector of Explosives for the year ended 30th Jnne, 1931.

Regulations under "The Apprentices and Minors Act of 1929" (amended Regu­lation 21 and Hegulation 31).

Order in Council and Regulations Nos. 291 to 375 under and for the purposes of " The Primary Producer;/ Organi­sation and Marketing Acts, 1926 to 1930."

SUGGESTED QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE.

OMISSION OF QUESTIONS.

Mr. BEDFORD tWarrego) [2.57]: I desire to raise a question of privilege. On Thursday, 6th August, I gave notice that I would ask the hon. member for Gregory the following question:-

" Did you. in the cour.'e of your articles on the wool industry"--

Mr. SPEAKER: Order: It is not a question of privilege at all. The hon. mem­ber gave notice of questions which were enth·ely out of order. Quite recently I gave a ruling when the hon. member for Rockhampton gave notice of questions of a similar character which he proposed to ask an hon. member who was not a member of the Government. Questiollll .to hon. members who are not members of the Go­vernment-that is to sav. unofficial mem­bers-are quite out of 'order unless they touch the business of the House-that is to say, have direct reference to a Bill, motion, or some other busine's before the House­and that is the reason whv the hon. mem­ber's question does not appear on the paper.

Mr. BEDFORD: I do not desire to go on with the matter as a question of privi­lege. Mr. Speaker, but I wish to point out that Standing Order 68 says-

" At the time appointed ,for giving notices of motion, a member may put any question of which notice has been given to any other member of the House relating to any Bill, motion, or other public matter connected with the busi­ness of the House."

Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! I cannot allow the hon. member to proceed. I have given my ruling, and I am backed up by several authorities. In the first place, I refer to the " Speakers' Rulings of Victoria," in ,,-hich I find, on page 96, the following:-

" A question to a Minister or a private member must be on business before the House, and not merely on a question of public interest."

I am also supported bv " Peel's Decisions " of the House of Commons, on page 119 of which there is this ruling-

" It is not in order to put a question to an hon. member who is not in an official position on a matter not before the House."

Hon. C. Taylor.]

318 Apiaries Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Apiaries Bill.

I am also supported by the most important authority of all, "May," who, at page 241 of the 13th edition, says-

" ·Questions addressed to unofficial members must relate to a bill, motion, or other matter connected v.-ith the busi­ness of the House in which such mem-bers are . concerned . "

I am also fortified by the very latest ruling, which is to be ,found in a book published only two or three years ago by the Second Clerk Assistant of the House of Commons, Mr. G. F. M. Campion, who states-

" Now, however, they (i.e., questions) may only be addressed (a) to Ministers and such private members as are com­missioned by the Government to answer for departments (such as the Forestry, or Ecclesiastical, Commissioners), who have no Minister generally responsible in the House, and (b) to private mem­bers about a ' Bill, motion, or other matter connected with the business of the House in which such members are concerned.' "

APIARIES BILL.

INITIATION IN CoM:mTTEE.

(]fr. Roberts, East .Toowoomba, in the chair.)

The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE: (Hon. H. F. WALKER, Cooroora) [3.2]: I beg to move-

" That it is desirable that a Bill be introduced to regulate and control the keeping of bees; to control and restrict diseases· and pests in relation thereto, and for other purposes."

This industry has developed to a consi·derable extent during the past ten to fifteen years, and a Bill of this nature has been urgently required in Queensland for some time. It is necessary that powers should be taken to regulate and control this industry, particu­larly to deal with diseases common to the industry. Last year a disease broke out in the Brisbane area, but fortunately only one apiary was infected. There is a difference of opinion between the Crown Law Depart­ment and my department as to whether my department has power to do certain things in respect of this industry. If we had had power to declare a bee an animal, the matter could have been dealt with under the Diseases in Stock Act. However, that could not be done, and 1t became necessary to intmduce special legislation. The disease is of a virulent character, and one that is likely to wipe out the whole of the industry. If the disease were permitted to spread to the wild bees in the coastal areas and to the English bees that have gone wild, I doubt whether the industry could be successfully conducted again. We have quite a number of apiaries in Queensland comprising a large number of hives.

The owner of the apiary concerned reported the outbreak to the department, and an entomologist was immediately despatched to report. The department had no power to deal with the matter, and had to rely on the gratuitous efforts of the owner himself. He was sufficiently public spirited to sug­gest that the whole apiary be burnt, and that was done. That enabled qs to deal with this disease, which is known as "foul brood." It could be dealt with only at the request of the individual himself and at a

[Hon. G. Taylor.

big loss to him. If the department had had legislative authority, or if it had been sup­ported by some system of organisation, the individual, perhaps could have been more fairly dealt with. Fortunately, the other apiarists in Southern Queensland came to the assistance of this beekeeper, and con­tributed a few hives to enable him to recom­mence in the industry. The action of this man permitted the department ultimately to get rid of that dreadful disease. That should give the Committee some idea of how an industry like this may suffer if the Government have no control whatever in dealing with an ontbreak of disease. Bees are subject to many diseases. This Bill not only deals with "foul brood," but also with the general control of the industry, which is very necessary. It is very necessary that this industry should be regulated from time to time on the lines of Acts of Parliament which have been passed from time to time dealing with various phases of industry in this State.

This is a particularly short Bill, and there is nothing of a contentious character in it. Its object is to give beekeepers some idea of how to carry on the industry. The department must work in with the apiarists. We have in the department bee experts; but, as I pointed out earlier in my remarkR, if they discover a disease among bees or in the hives, they have no power to control it. Large quantities of honey have been exported from this State; and, while the quantity is not as large as we expect our exports ulti­mately to reach, still it has been the means of assisting to keep the wheels of industry going. One .of our desires in controlling the industry is to encourage the export trade, for we all recognise that every pro­duct that is exported will be of benefit to Queensland.

Mr. W. FORGAN S::WITH (!riackay) [3.7]: This is a Bill for which those engaged in the bee industry have been anxiously wait­ing. The object is one which all hon. mem­bers will support. Anything that can be done in the way of regulation and control to assist this and other industries should be supported. I do not yet know what the full aim and scope of the Bill is, and, natur­ally, will reserve my further remarks to the later stages of the Bill, by which time we shall have had an opportunity of studying it The industry is one which has grown in recent years, and the men engaged in 1t are very active in ·developing it with the object of producing honey of high quality and placing it on the market. It is an industry which should be fostered and assisted in every way.

Mr. BEDFORD (TFar~·ego) [3.9]: I unde,·­stand from conversation with the Minister that the object of this Bill is to deal with "foul brood." I suggest that the Govern­ment should be included, as it is the only " foul brood " in the political hive that I know of. (Laughter.)

The CHAIRMAN : Order !

Question-" That the resolution (Mr. H. F. Walker's motion) be agreed to"-put and passed.

The House resumed.

The CHAIRMAN reported that the Committee had come t'o a resolution.

Resolution agreed to.

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.) Address in Reply. 319

FIRST READING. The SECRETARY FOR AGRICULTURE:

(Hon. H. F. WALKER, Cooroora) presented the Bill, and moved-

" That the Bill be now read a first time.''

Question put and passed. Second reading of the Bill made an

Order of the Day for to-morrow.

ADDRESS IN REPLY.

RESUMPTION OF DEBATE-FOURTH ALLOTTED DAY.

Mr. PLUNKET'l' (Albert) [3.11]: At the outset of my remarks I desire to offer my congratulations to the mover and the seconder of the motion now before the House on the very able manner in which they dis­charged their duty. Furthermore, I should like to say on behalf of my electorate that we deeply regret that this is the last time that we shall have a Speech delivered by His Excellency the Governor. Sir John Goodwin has endeared himself to all sec­tions of the people, more especially to the country people; and we all regret very much that he will be leaving Queensland at an early date.

I desire to address myself particularly ~o the question of · primary production, 111

which I am most deeply concerned; and I propose to quote figures which will show the benefit of primary production not only to Queensland but to Australia generally. I quite realise that the present indebtedness of the Commonwealth can only be redeemed by increased primary production; and the figures which I shall quote will show tho advancement that has been made during the past year in certain phases of primary pro­duction. To get a proper perspective of the position it is necessary to go back some years, and to trace the growth to the present date.

The following figures will show the wonder­ful strides which have taken place in the dairying industry between the period of 1896 and 1930 :-

-- 1896. 1930.

Number of cows .. 80,000 700,000 Butter-

Production .. 6,164,2401b. 87,500,000lb . Value .. .. £462,318 £6,562,500

Cheese-Production .. 1,921,404lb. 14,265,69llb. Value .. .. £88,064 £653,844

Whilst that advancement has naturally created a great deal of wealth and work in Queensland, I shall also quote figures to show that the dairying industry has been the means of bringing over £5,000,000 of new money into this State.

The value of our primary industries to the various States of Australia and the Com­monwealth generally is not very often appre­ciated; but, when I mention that last year the dairying industry brought £5,250,000 from overseas to Queensland, we can appre­ciate the fact that it is a very valuable industry to the State. While that has been happening, I want to point out one very big factor in connection with the butter

industry. The average price to the pro­ducer in 1929-1930 was ls. 3d. per lb., while last year the average price to the producer was ls. 1d. per lb., showing that the pro­ducers had to accept 2d. per lb. less last year than in the year previous, which is a very big fall in twelve months.

We have been told that the price the people in Queensland have to pay for butter has had the effect of decreasing the con­sumption; but the figures do not altogether bear this out, because, according to the official figures, the amount of factory butter consumed in Queensland in the year 1930 was 421,000 boxes, while in 1931 the con­sumption total!ed 403,000 boxes. That shows a slight decrease; but when it is remembered that we are passing through a depression and tHat all commercial activi­ties have shown a decreased output, it will be realised that a certain decrease was only to be expected. One of the reasons for the decrease has been that butter has come into Queensland from the other States, parti­cularly through the South Coast districts, and it has not been possible to police that butter. When we take that factor into consideration, it will be seen that the con­sumption of factory butter 'has not decreased in Queensland to the extent that people would have us believe.

Mr. HAKLON: Is there any penalty for bringing butter over the border?

Mr. PLUNKETT: No. Mr. HANLON: You said it was not pocsible

to police it.

Mr. PLUNKETT: What I meant was that it was hard to ascertain the actual amount brought over the border. \Ve know that a certain number of boxes came over, but we do not know whether the quantity reached 100 or 1,000 boxes.

I have given the consumption of butter for last year, and I would like to give some further figures in connection with the dairy­ing industry in Queensland, because they are of interest, as showing that we are making progress, and also the necessity for encouraging the industry to progress still further. There is no doubt that it is one of the most important industries we have, and any assistance we can give to it should be given. The following table shows the amount of butter consigned overseas :-

1925-1926 1926-1927 1927-1928 1928-1929 1929-1930 1930-1931

Boxes . 629,953 419,102 804,639 803,149 843,738

1,234,879 The figures for 1929-1930 were a record up till that time, but last year that record was eclipsed by nearly 400,000 boxes. _That shows how much we have developed m the pro­duction of butter.

Not only have we increased the output of butter, but also the efficiency of manu­facture.

Mr. W. FoRGAN SMITH: The qualitJ: generally has improved.

Mr. PLUNKETT: The quality genera!Jy has improved. If we are going to export our primary or secondary products to the markets of the world, they will have to be equal in value to those which other countries

Mr. Plitnkett.]

320 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

arc producing, otherwise we are not going to get the best results.

Dealing with export of butter shipments, it is interesting to examine the perc.entages in regard to the various States. We find that last year the total export from the Commonwealth was 73,951 tons, comprised as follows :-

Victoria ::\"ew South Wales Queensland South Australia Tasmania

Tons. 26,094 13,855 30,810 1,088 2,104

The percentages of increase are more inter­c,ting, namely :-

Victoria ="few South Wales Queensland .. South Australia Tasmania

Per cent. 35.29 18.74 41.66 1.47 2.84

The comparative increase for last year was 25,860 tons, or a total increase of 53.77 per cent. Those figures are very interesting, and show the progress that has been made. I do not claim that that increase would have been made without the very good seasons we have had. The point I want to make is the efficiency which has resulted from the up-to-date factories we have built and the improvements in the grading of our butter. We find the percentages of grades in all the States were-

Choicest grade First grade Second grade Pastry

Per cent. 55.38 31.93

9.86 2.83

These arc vast improvements on previous vcars, showing that Queensland and Aus­tralia have built more efficient butter fac­toric·", which arc equipped with the mo•t modern machinery, and we expect the per­centages of the highest grades ·will con­tinue to improve.

The cheese exported from

1929-30 1930-31

Australia was­Tons. 1,659 4,220

an increase of 2,561 tons, or a percentage increase of 175.4. The exports from the various States last year were-

Victoria New South Wales Queensland

Crates. 4,348 1,503

53,231

The point I wish to make here is that, out of a total export of 59,082 crates, Queens­land was responsible for 55,231. That shows that our cheese producers are also pro­gressing, adding very materiaLy to the welfare of the State.

There is another matter to which I would like to draw attention, as quite a number of people, even hon. m'embers in this House, contend that the producer is all the time trying to charge too much for his products. In fact, they say he is fleecing his customers. Their argument is that we are running the business to get what we can out of it. I would point out that, while the manufac­ture of }.Jutter and cheese is good for the country, a large amount of money is spent in the cities in connection therewith. With­out taking into consideration the amount paid by the factories in railway freight, and

[ 111 r. Plunkett.

the~ amotint spent in connection with wharf­age charges, harbour dues, grading fees, stamp duties, and so on, which work out approximately at 10s. 3d. per cwt., L::st year there was an amount of £307,500 spent in Brisbane alone. That has nothing to do with the cost of production or the freight from the country. Then we can add to that insur­ance premiums, exchange, and freight, which amounted to another £85,000. That shows that last year £400,000 was spent in the city of BrisbanB by the butter industry alone; and that doc·s not take into account the money spent by way of employment given to carters and others-it wa.s purely in con­nection with butter that was exported. No doubt many people do not realise the im­portance to this State of this industry as well as other primary industries. 'Ne have also to bear in mind that the producers in the butter industry received 2d. per lb. less last yeo,r for their product than they received in the previous year. I point that out to indi­cate to hon. members that. those engaged in the industry are suffering the loss of a vast amount of money, although they had a good season and a year of high production. Simi­larly in the bacon or pig industry the pro­ducers are receiving about 2d. per lb. less than in the previous year. The figures show that about 340,000 pigs were killed last year, but they averaged about 2d. per lb. less. That means a loos of about £280,000 to the producers.

Another fact which will give some indica­tion of the ramifications of the primary industries of which I am' speaking is that there has been a considerable falling away in the stud business. Taking the pig breeders' stud books as a basis, we find that the sales in the years quoted have decreased as under-

1928-29 .. . 968 1929-30 805 1930-31 447

So that in two years the low prices received by the producers have had a serious effect on the stud business. DairYmen cannot afford to buy the same quantity" of stud stock that they did before; and, unfortunately, with­out such purchases we cannot expect to improve our industry to the extent we would like. I think it is quite plain that the pro­ducer is not getting more than a reasonable price for his product.

'.V e have heard a good deal lately about tobacco growing. The experim<'nts which have been conducted with this crop, especi­ally at Mareeba, have had the effect of shov.­ing that tobacco can be grown in Queensland and that quite an excellent article can be pro­duced; but there is a possibility of tobacco being cultivated indiscriminately, which would not be to the benefit of Queensland generally. Like every other new industry, where experiments are carried on and profits are shown, people think that they can pursue it all over Queensland. To-day people all over the State are talking about growing tobacco They are already trying to grow tobacco under all sorts of conditions and on all sorts of land. The trouble is that not many of us have had much experience, or have otherwise been able to gain much knowledge of the business ; and I think a warning should be iooued to everybody who contemplates growing the crop. If tobacco can be grown successfully in the North or anywhere else, well and good; but we do not want to encourage people to embark on the

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 321

industry under conditions which are not cal­culatt'd to 1nah:r~ for success.

1\lr. \\-. FonG,\N SmTH : \Ve ought a.lso to issue a \va.rning against " go-getting " share Yendors.

Mr. PLUNKETT: I agree with that, too. If we do nbt take care, we are going to get a lower grade of tobacco than one we can sell, with the result that the industry as a »·hole »·ill not be benefited. A wanting should be issu·.d :;o that nobody will think that he can grow tobacco, just as he grows vegetables, in his own back yard. The SupLrintendent of Agriculture in Victoria has recently is3Ued a warning to this elfect. Moreover, as the Leader of the Opposition says, a war:ting- should also be issued regard­ing "go-getters," becRuse it has conlt- under my notice that people of that type are already buying aud selling land for toqaoco growing. I know ono area 1vhich has be.en put up for sale for tobacco growing at a price, I understand, of about £2 15s. per acre. I would Eot care to pay 10s. per acre for the luud.

The tobacco industry is being exploited, and some people will, no doubt, lose hcr,vily in conncrtion Y\-iih the enterprise. I arn anxious that tho producers of the country should not be the losers, and I am anxious that t 11Cy should not embark upon tobacco cnltiYation, only to find in a year or so that the indu::;n_:· is a failure, or that inferior tobacco is bei:1g grown to the detriment of th0 industn', when quite acceptable leaf can b., producc,d in certain parts of Queensland. The Superintendent of _\griculture in Vic­toria, l\Ir. ~bl\et, in dealing with the tobacco inductry. said-

" The growing of tobacco 1s not o-no that inexperienced persons can hope to win easy succe.;; s iB. Australia ea" produce readily all the dark, heavy 1,· af consumed here. The market more Ui' lee; dep,onds on the production of light, brioht leaf obtainable by skillc;d gToYil'l's \Yorking- on scientific lines in the corrcH ~ natural environment."

It must be thorc,uchlY understood that this indu·Jtry has to be. cultivated upon scientific 1ine~ by experienced ·~To\vers and in the cor­rect natural environment. Tbo3c places do not abound in every part of Queensland. :,Ir. Mullet :urthcr states--

" To the person \Yith no experience ancl little capital tobacco culture is a had risk ; the cost of growi:!1g and ctuing an acre of leaf is estimated from £30 to £40. Tk ·inners should restrict their opPrations. That \vill not involYe thern in serious monctarv loss should their land and conditions give them only partial success."

I do feel that a timely ' aming should be isouc'd to tlw people who propose to embark upon tobacco culti ,·ation, because they cannot all rn.akP :' ST:ccss of the incLtstry. It would b~ a pity to allow inferior tobacco to bo gl'O\\'n to the dcb:irnent of the industry as a ,-:hcie.

I was rHnticLll:trly interested in the rcrnarks made by the hon. member for Bremer the other day, who stated that the primary pro· ducers wore assisted conoiderably by a favour­able exchange r:Lto, \vhich is quite correct; but I Jrcw the inference from his remarks that the primary producers <lf this country were responsible for that exchange rate. which is not correct. I am always prepared

1931-x

to defend the primary producers in regard to "hat they obtain, "hether through a favourable exchange rate or otherwise, ben use they are entitled to it; but it is well to point out that, if the exchange rates were unofficially fixed below the natural level, they wol.!ld rob the primary producer of a portion of his return. The rate of exchange between countries depends upon many things, but it depends particularly upon-

" 1. The difference in the demand for the interchange of money.

2. The ability of a country to export gold or gGods or to raise an external loan to meet the dif­ference.

3. The cost to a country of the exportable good:; expressed in its O\Vn currency."

Some of the primary industries of this coun­try hav0 been as,isted by a policy of protec­tion; but it is in1possible to pass on over· head cu ts such as taxation and other items in open competition in the markets of the _,·oriel. It may be r:ossible to pass on a proportion of the cost on tho horne n1arket; but the producer must talw \Yorld's parity in competition v;ith the red of the world, If the other countries of the world have not a cc.,t of production leYcl higher than our own, then their currency ha:; a greater value; and, when \Ye sell ouc product abroad, the difference between the value of our product in our currcncv and the value of the product iu the cur-rcn'Cy of the co"ntry of export belongs to the country that has tl:e groa~er currcncv value, and any attempt to depnve the producer of his proper return by the fixation of the exchange amounts to legahscd robbery. That is not a very nice term, but that i,. what it amounts to. If the exchange is pegged belo''' the par. value, then the exporting producer is depnved of a P.ropor-1ion of hi8 return. .i\ free exchange, hnchng its O\Yll level in any country, gives to the produc0r the full value for the product that he has to sell.

~Ir. HAxLox: \Voulcl you be just as favour­abl" to an exchange that gave an advers~~ re• ult to Australia?

JI.Ir, PLUNKETT: 'l'he exchange did operate against us at one tin1o, alld we had t•J sul~cr it to so1nc extent. :Xo one can1e to our a' sistancc then. If the exchange is pegged helm,· the par value, then the e::'port­ing producer has to pay. I do not w1sh to adopt the cxarnplc set by :::orne hon. Jnen1bers duri11g the debate of castigating other hon member,_. for what they said or for what son1conc else said fivo or six years ago.

There is ono most important thing which Australia must do to-day, and that is to think carefully over the financial position we are in. I am inclin£d to speak on thJS question because last year I mentioned. it, and offered the opinion that the Prune ?.linistcr Mr. Scullin, should call a con­ference 'of ell the State Premiers to deal '-·ith the pooition as it presented itself then. That w's tweh·c months ago, but it was n1anv months l,~fore sucL a co~fl'rcncc ·,o:as calle,d. Possiblv manv oj her hon. :nemhcrs realised then that the" depression v. as not a question conrerning any one Stato, but one concerning the whole of Australia, and which could be solved only from an Australian yicwpoint. It is regrettable that political inflllonce prevented all the States getting

Jlr. Plunkctt.l

322 ArlJrc-s in Rep/>i. [ASSKYIBLY.] Addr0ss in Reply.

tog-ether eadicr than thev did and formu· Jating a cmninon policy to~ 1neet our trouble3. VVhcu the Prcrn1crs _'l'G callc:::t tog(~nJcr, thcv arrived at the <.:olal-ion known a~ the " ljrernicrs' Plan." T1Ptt :::olnhon ain1ed at L'-"'tting us out of our Ll')Ubh:.s, but c:mid onl:v be put into opernlron by th0 v~-hole of the Premiers agrccin~ to pass Iea;islation similar in charach?r. \Yhile I do not alto­gether agree that the plan is the best that could In c·•oh·ed, vet it is one that every }H'rson c d1 and si1ctlld subscribe to. I hope tha.t this loan conv,'r2i'>n will be quite• SUCC'CSSful.

One thing I am concerrncl about is the nec•.•ssity for the emergency plan. The pro­ducers arc expcct:d to prcclucr; at a lo---,-cr cost. VI c all realise that. as wa<·es and oyorythinr; ol:•e have to come down-·-

Mr. Bow: Thr.• have come down.

J\.1r. PLUXKETT: An:- plan t~1<1t does not aH .npt to give the present scale of ' ngcc;; a groat~-r purcha:,ing po\YCT than pre­Yiousl·-~ rnnst in it~elf be un•JJUrt.ci. ODe obi~~cG·~ of the plan ,hould be to make 111c

pui·chasing po1~HT of n1onc.-~ t;:Tcat. r than prP,·iowl.v. Io do so ,.rOll nntnrnll.7 Lave to 11rodn('e at a }Q-:.·~>cr "o:st, but. \vhi\o we are told that \Y8 haYe to ]•''•Jd:l•'0 at a lo-ser co-t, \Ve find a certain po:'7iiio:1 arising owing to an inC'rC~se in the pri1n · o and ~ab taxes.

!.Ir. Bow: They c•)me back upon the \YorkLl

:\Ir. PLU~·:KETT: The point is that the prodnr0r has to pay the se taxes, and how can he bn a,:-;kcd to produce at a less co:.t than fornll'rly if the cost of eYory article u:-~ed bv hin1 i11 proch ct:ion is incrcn .. cd bocan.o' nf this extra taxation? He rullv cannot afforrl to pay this increase;] tax. F:nJry implcnwut that the primary prodnC'cr tEes carri<''3 these extra chn,rgcs. I \':ill giyc one instance to show lwvv these incrca-- 'cl t xes tend to retard any deYelojlmeut in tbo dairying industry. Tho dairyi!lg· in(1ustry is on0 ~'l'hi('h 'Ye c '"U1

deYe!op. The increased price which the dairynutn Jnu··:t no'!' pa~, for a ,~"Cparator amounh to a bout £5 owing to these extr" charg•:c. It is ridiculous for us to talk about reducing the cost of production and n t the ~Jmc titno impose increased taxatjon. I am speaking more from an Australian point of view, because I realise that this is not a Stat · matter at "11. vVe arc essen­tially a primary produc:ng nation. and are about 10.000 miles from the centre of the world's tnarkch. That bc1ng so. the..: rhar~cs, instead of encouraging prirnary produr:tion, c:wse us to try to build up ccconclnrv inrlustriC's. l'\carlv one-La!£ of our populfltion is to be fonnd in our citit'l o,nd towm. That sho·,ys a natural tcndencv for people to gravitate to the cities. '

Mr. Bo'·-': But thev cat vour butt anrl chC'C•o rdl the S 0 .11l0. , •

1\Ir: PLe:\'KETT: Thi, is a. mnch bigger CJ'.Wst,on than that. Tbc ouc,tion I am addrc-sing my.:elf to is one \vhich attempts to PohTo in a ta11gihlo '\Va}· our prof'cnt tronble. end help A,!'tralia out of her diffi­culties. The emor!:(ency plan of legislation onh· goes part of the way.

\Vhen we aro reminded of the fact that our national income has fallen to the exted of £200,000,CQO, we mu-t r0aliso that ""

,#{lannot live on the same basis as we haYc

[J[ r. Plunkett.

lived on in the past. It is necessary for us to alter the whole of the conditious under \Vhich WP ha\~c LoH1 vvorkinv anJ living. As I said before, the plan only goes half wav. \Vo ha\e been able to make so1no agl:CPnlcnt ·with our creditors; and we are hopeful of restoring· confidence in Au ,[ralia by the success of tho emergency plan and the convursion loan. But for what r;._ ason are we desirous of restoring C'onfidl3nce in Au:~tralia? A!.·e 'H~ going to borrow 1norc rnonc,, '? I arn concerned as to ·what is going. to happen in the future. lf w:• ar•o rnercly going to borrow more money, then vve are only increa ,ing our rcspon ,iuiEtie~. Tlv. hon. rnemb2r for Mitch. 11 h;t, inter­jected several tirncs during the course of 1ny speech that all these chargf'; ha Ye br:·,n put on the workers; but I would l'<"mind the hon. member that the mcnev which tho r_.,~bonr Govcrn1ncnt and indeed eYory othC'r GovernnlClJt in ..c\ustralia borrowed 1Yas bon-owed on tl1c sec1uity of the primary production of the country. Further, it is to primary production that we have to look for the payment of our indebtcdnn' ·.

1\fr. \V. FoRGA" Sm:rrr: The wealth pro· dncecl and the capacity to produce wealth is !he asset.

:\Ir. PL U::\'KETT: If we are to roha bili­tatc oursclY(·s financially, o InlFt pl'otcct this a·-::·,.et to a grcatrr extent than in tlJC past. 1,:ve £:-hall have to cncourar::L prinuu·;.r production, and that 1ncans an effort t the people 'who hm·c crmYdL•d to the c to rctu1 n to the land and engage in prirnary production. \V c cannot proccccl on the old basis in Yiew of the fall in the national incorr1o ancl the inabil:itv to borru.·,~ rnorP rnonc:-;T. v.,~c cannot kcc1; 1arg0 nurnbers of people in the citic:, ul1dcr th ~e ciL.nrn­stanccs. The onlv ,,·ay that onr indeJted­ne'·<, c1n be met" i<1 by rneans o£ cx1~orts. Prirnary production is the asset; and, . as \\~e have entered into an agrccrncnt w1th our creditoL,, v,re have now to se: about putting our business on a new footing, \vhich ncceo:sitates the clin1ination of wast:~, and th{~ institution of now methods. I think the tin1e is partiC'ularly opportune for us to do something. realisin~, a'! we 1nnst do, our responsibilities and 1iabilitios, not onl,-;- in this country but overseas.

The emergency plan ii\ only for to-day or to-monow, and after that something further has to bo done to get Australia out of her rlifficL>ltic;. The prr--:c 1t position was brou~ht about as '" re ult of all the Staks borrowmg

of th,,ir own free will; and, when c1uld not get any 1n0re money at a

r- """'able rate of interest, they offered an inrre.1 ,;od rate, until vve got into the position thnt each State was competing with every other State for rno:1e~'· The position became 'SO acute, that son1eo1;e saw difficulties ahead if this competition between the different Strttcs for borrO\Yed n1onev from overseas did not cease; rrnd the Loan Council was brought into being to act as a check on the cliffc;ront States in regard to borrowmg fnrthcr money. At that time man:: people rcalis."! that at the rato Australia was lwr­l"''Win·" ntoncy from oYers0as vvc vvere sirnplv ntartg'~~dng ·prirnary production more an~l more. That is why I state that, if the con­vor~io:n loan is a. sucees3, it 'vill n1ean the borrowi11~ of furthet· rnoney, and that wip still further mortgage the production of th1s conntrv. \Vo have between 6,000,000 and 7,000,000 people in Australia, and out of that

Addreus in R.ply. [18 "\.c'GUST.] Address in Reply. 323

nurr;l]er I ~~uppose there are only 1,000,000 woLers. how can 1,000,000 workers pay the taxation of Australia? 1rhe~y cannot do it, and sorru better methods will have to be adopted to develop the conntry. \Ye cannot develop the country on a h'gh rate of mtorcst. \Ve cannot develop it on relief dole..:;. \Ye C'l,nnot dcvclo11 jt in the wa v \Ye would like with the exdessive taxation we ha._Ye to pa~. I would suggl'':t that, aficr tins. conYersion loan i~ bronght to a succe::;s­ful Is;:.;ue, a rcconstrnction council be set up l'BlH'f ,entativo of aJl interests. It is the future \VC ha:vo to fear. As a rcsul t of the Premic_;_3 of the Yarious States and Comrnon-

calth getting together and adopting a cornnwn plan, we have saYed ourselves fron1 go in; over the brink into bankruptcy. But what cloes the future hold? No matter how sinc~rc the yariou Covernments may bo, if th"y work mdependentlc- of each other it will be irnpossiblo to an~ango rnatters in' the future in tho wa:.- they shoulc: be arranged.

1\lr. Hn,E.3; Tho obvimu thing is to abolish State .Parliaments.

Mr. PLUJ'\KETT: The obvious thing for the hon. membe1· to do is to keep quiet and bsrcu. It 1s nccee -ary for all sides to join forcc~s in the vv.tv the Prern~·:;rs of the various Statcc and the Common~~Yoalth have done in order . to get some plan going. It is more csse;~tul than over that some plan or some scheme ou o;ht to be arra.n_ od for the future. It is no n , one State attGn1pting to do any­thing on ib O\Yn. All interests rnust be repre­so~lted, rnore cspecia~'l-. the prirnary indus­tnc.s and th~" secondarJ· industries. rrhey :~hould corn bn1o to fonn· a. reconstruction council

\Ye> need to ;111~e tigato the wlwlo qm•stioa of Auf:trnlia's artivitics. indudiYJg our finan­cial IJOsitioH. \Ye \\ant a revrew of our nutiot~al indcbtodnc;~3 bot.h local nnd OYer­~ a.;, nnd tl· Lt qn·"<i'Jn 1nust be solved. \Ye ¥.:<l_nt to r-ct fornc authority-not the poli­h..___ ,n:-:;--to set up a proper relatiDnship bcbYccn c.1pital and industr,,. \Vo want elso to dc'a! with tariff duties, because there is no doubt that t'ho 'POsition \YC are gcttinrr into >Yith rcg <rd to· tariff duties can cithe~· 1nu~;;:c or bnak the country. So lon!! as \V8

huYe b;g liabilities OYersCas and tho onl7 method of paying thPm is by the export of JHhn~lT" products, \VC can quite real~so that ~he cu~ton1s duties haye a big bL 1ring on the ., elf are of the countn·. I am not a free­trader. If we >Ycre a self-contained country, It ,.~ould not matter so much about the cus­tonls dutlr-s; but so long a:J \Ye have this lnr.;,c indcbtcdne~s-and we arc honm::t and intend to pa,v it-we have to encourage the prodnctlon of a~~0ts in the country to pay our d"ht. \\'eallh is not produc•od in the citic' but in the counrry. The natural thing to do is to get people to go out into tho country and produce wc"lth for the State and for thc,nselvc". The development of industries givin~ pro1njse of b~ing able to cnnliL tc in t11c world's rnarkets is necc)sar .... ~. vVe can dc.-c'lop primary products, but it i.o no u·~~ Joi:--1g so unl0~s \Ye have some reason­able prosptc·t of disrosing of them.

'\Ir. SPEAKER: Order! The hem. mem­ber has exhausted the tin1c allowed hln1 under the Standinr,- Order-.

:'vlr. BO\V (Jiilchdl) [3.51] : I listened with a great deal of interest to the mm-er <1nd sooondcr of the motion for the adontion of the Addrc·.s in Reply. I was not· -ur­pri, cd to Dnd that there Y1'as n.othing at all

mentioned in the Governor's Speech in con· nection with any redress for the worker. That did not surprise me in the least bc·causo of the present GoYernrnent being in power. Under the present GoYernrncnt \'\'C shctll ha~:u conditions reduced to the level of the coolie bcfure il1e country en n count upon aT;ty hope of roco.-cring from the ·difficulties '.' n ar,, in. \Ye cannot but eon1parc the conditions under the prcsc::t GoYernn1ent \Vith those obh1ining \Yhcn tho Labour Governrncnt' \Yore in power,, whcr1 tht:.."' \vorker had an oppor­tunitv of li,~ing· as he should liYe. Ho had a bav::,ic at that tirno which allowed him to bu·c nc-ccsouies of life. L:ndcr pr~..'i'ent coilditions we find that men on £3 a \Vcek, :--ucl CYCll men on £2 a vveek. ha.\·c to keep their \viyes and faTnilics, and tho:­find it irnpo~_jbk to get: the \Yh(?re,vith·,,l to bring up their families ancl feed them properly. The Governn1cnt have cut do1.vL the Arbitration Court a.w,._trds, and think that a man c.w li,·e ou £2 a -, .. eek. "\nd then we. hen· ho.1. members opposih stating that there i~ net il lnnn in ruccnsland to-dav who is hungTy ~ The Secretary for Labour n.nd llldusiry said thoro V\ rH not a person in Ciu,_, nsbi-.d who is hungry to-rl1.y. E\ cry­one in this :House and pcoplt> outside kno\V that thcc·c arc- anv numl.Jcr of fctmilies >Yho

hungry and i;t \Yant. \\~ o hear it front Jl Jpits of the dific>rent chtuchcs and

pl':tccs where the people arc being tcd.

If Queensland is such a prosp rous State, td \Ve n re led to belie,~e by the Govern­ment, the people c:h6u!d be able to earn enough to ke0p themselves properly "ithout the necessity for taking charity. Yet we find it saicl nearly CYery day from the pulpit ancl. elsewhere that people arc liYing absoh:Liy ou charity.

At the bst election the Premier distinctlv said on every public platform from which he spoke that he would not interfere with the Arbitration Court or with the conditions of the worker; yet from the time he and his party took office their one object has been to reduce the payments to the public ser.-ants. That >vas m!ly a lead •eo private enterprise to rcc'uce the wages of its employees to the same extent. \Ve even find that after this House had met and dealt ':ith the legi'·lation m ono •,ecsion, the Industrial Court wcs approached by the Government for a reduction of the pay of the public servGnts by 10 per cent. Becaus<' the court clicl not sec. eye to eye >Yith the Government a.nd wonld grant a reduction of only 6 per cPnt .. tho Government pa 'ed legishttion bringing about a further reduc­tion of 4 per cent. Then private enterprise did the very ~ a:nc thing, 'vith i11c rcf·dt that the workers of Qneensbncl had not the whcrewithrJ to live. The business poon!e in Brisbane a,-,d throughout Qucensla'nd found that the spending power of the JlOoplo was much less than it had been prcYiously. and that in its tnrn lwmq:;ht about further unclnp1o~'ll1Cllt hrcau~P priYah~ employ0r~ rlirl not do the 'nme b'JSine8'· that thcv did before, and could not kcP"O their han·c], t "'Ork. bnt hncl io tvrn them out upon the nnemn1oved markf:t. rrhP Attornev-GPneral at hi, meeting at Kelvin Grove said th"t th.· Arbitration Court vas not functioning as it should fnnction. and that the Govern­ment would haYc to take a hand. which n1eant Gov·~.:•rnm('nt interference with the court-that is, that tlw court would have to make r2ductio11s to the extent that the

M1·. Bow.]

32± Address in Reply. [ASSE11BL Y.] Addrus in Reply.

Government wanted, or the Government would bring them about hy legislation. Eventually that was v·hat was done. \Ve have only to l'ecall tho reply by the Premier to a question addressed to him hy the hon. mem­ber for Balonne, who asked for an investiga­tion with reference to tho station hands in \Vcstern Queensland. The Premier replied that he did not consider that tlw circumstances warranted the expenditure by the Government of the sum which would be required for such an investigation. He said that he is convinced that governmental action has resulted in n1oro ner.sons bejng employed on Western stations- than would oth0rwise hav0 been the case, and that the business in Western towns has not been <CdYI.'rscly intedcred >vith. We know per­fectly well that not one additional hand has been engaged ;-;inee the f=:~lsp£'nsion or the abolition of the aw".rf1s of the court. Fe\ve~: men arc no\v employed, and I go so far as to say that th" grazing s-lcctor can only cn1ploy or di~chargo hands ,,ubject to the apprm-a! of the banks.

lTnder Labour rule the Yd ita "' orker \Vas protected by Arbitnction Court av. trds; but to-da~7 tllf' " abo. " and his vin rr,:ci\ e the 'pecial protection of n, Govcrmnent. If n white wo.!·ker, mnl~ or fernale, appro~f'he:, n station owner for Pnlplonncnt !,hen hP or _:-hf' mnst accept ,.-vhatcvcrv 1rag~ IS forthcon11ng; but the " abo." n1nst be paid un to 30s. and £2 p<'r week, and the gin, cooking for whit' people-and it is rather stran'!e that it should be nee" arv to employ a gin as a cook for >Yhitc p ople -Is protected to the extent of 30s. pc'r >Yeok. Tlwre is no protection for the white ,, orker. Th-2rr are any Inunber of ~ttti.on h·_LlHls in the \V"st to-da:-· in receipt of £1 per week, and c:ol'tainly in receipt of not nm·e than 308. per \YePk. That is a common ocn1rrcnce; but the "abo." rcceiVf'"'> up to £2 per \'\-"0Pk, and hi:-: ?:in, cooking for white ncople-the ta..rtics ar( lo"Y\' do\Yri, wh0n a girl h::1s to be crnp]o,·ed to cook for white n •. oplc-cnnnot br- puid 1c;;:s than 30s. per WPC]c .\Il that i~ made rossib1e hy tlv: kind protcctio'l of the GO\·cmment.

:VIr. KJR\V,\X: That has n.lwavs been the policy of the p. rty opposite. ·

Mr. BOW: It is t.hc intcl'!"o'l of the pro­sent Govt:rnnJPnt to reduce t-h~J whito IYOrkPr belmv the coolie lcYcl. The Gon,rnment loet no tirne in rcduclng tbr · a1arics of the public s0r\-aPts, anJ, indf'('d, rc;__h!.:::cd them on three different occasions. This was intended to giv0 :1 lead tn priYflte entc'rprjsc. \'rhich \Yas ~lot slow in a,Yailinr:; itst lf of it. Private interest took the hint frnm the Government. and embarked upon the -arnc "age-slashing emus~. The~· took the lcacl frcm the Go\·crnn1ent, \Y110 \YC'l'C' 1Jr'nnd to hbno~n· their f~lt,ction plPi!~Ps in that respect. \Vo know Yery well that a low-paid communitv is a lo\v-sr10rHlin~ C"Lnnunitv. As I am 'reminded bv the ho;c. mPmbcr for Brisbane. that was· a nhraee »'\ich the r~!"emi0l' hirn.self fr.'flllCntly ns~?d during thr: Jnst election campaign, :\'o country that reduces tho wages of its \vorl~0rs cnn last.

That great industrial authority, Henry .-·,id thrrt any pcr~o::n '.'\·ho was prc­to cnt wagc_s Vi."as al,o quite llrC'prtred

cut the thront of the nntion. Th:t is CJUicu conccL \Yhen the sp0r•.rling power of a community is rC'clucecl below a loYel at which they can· live comfortably, then the pri-

[Jfr. B01c.

rrwry producers also have no poc:sible c!rancc oi eking out a living from the land. \Ve ha,-o hoard a lot about the cost of living corning do,/·n, bu:- it is quite cYident in actual <.~xpcrience that thu cost of liv·ir;g has not con1o down in co1nparlson with the cut in y:, ages. Last ~~,)si on the Governn1ent, by guaranteeing the price of wheat produced in Queensland, caused an jncrcase in tl:-e price of Hour, which naturally ro,ulted m an increase in the price of bread. Breafl, which had been selling at 51d. for a 2-lb. loaf, was increns'ed to 5~d., at ·.' hich price it has remained for the past t'veiYo months. 1\fanv hon. members on the Government benches are interested in dairying and agri­cultural pursuits; hut can they say that the prices of any of their products have come down in the san1e 1·atio as wag0s?

The PHE11IER: They ha''" come down more. They have been reduced by as much as 6G per cent.

Mr. BO\V: They have not. The Premier has only to consult the housewife to. a,,,'ce.r­tain that that :is not so. The houscynfc \Vlll tell the hon. gentleman that the price of butter. for instance, has not been reduced :in tho :.::uno ratio a:.::; \I ages.

The PRE:,~IER: You .asl~ed if any prin1ar:· producer conld show that hi· returns had been reduced in a certain ratio.

1lr. 130\V: The Prornic:r cannot contra­dict n1~v :-:'taiC'nlc :1t, as he knows' very -,yell that the co't of living ha· not come down in this State lower than our State basic wage?

Tlw PRr mER: I clon't know anything of the :·:n·t. ·wh v is the :Federal basic wag~ in this State , lower than our State basic wage?

~\Jr. DO\\r: If hem. gcntloman went into the '\~ c.:otern of Otwr"'n~land, "·here I >Wl interested. he wonld find that the price of food in tlw centres where it is gro\-rn is practica] ly the ~":uno to-day a It \VilS \Yh('n enttlc WL'l'C i:ringi11g £14 or £15 llCl' h0ad. rrbat i:;; SOJ118thing that I ha_ve ;wrsonal knowledge of. Still the Premwr ~c ntends that the cost of !i,·ing ha come clo·,,·n! I t·cpc,lt that t,hc c·o,t of living has not come do,vn to t11c s:Hno extent as wagP,; and the GoYornn1c-nt ·wjl1 take care that it will not go down to thot extent.

Ti•e pr< cnt Gonornment would lead us to believe that the nnmber d unemployed to-dav is nothinrr in <'Ornpa.ri~-n v,-jth ·\\hat it \\'flS aurin~ theu Labonr l'C'"i"'JC. \Ve ha\0 cnlv to take the figures 6llplllied by the s~c­rr:tarv for Labour~ aud I!Idu.stry to find the true 'rw·ition.

The PRDHER: The fi::;TH''"' arc compiled by the Commonwealth Stut: tician.

'\1r. BO\V: But tlw hon. gentleman mu~t realise that the nopulafion of Queemland lS yery mnch le's th.an that o: )ie"·." S~uth \Vales a.nd Y ictoria, and we kHow tho t n1 Queens­! md the number of un< •tp1oycd h:rs a "tua.l!v d Jl...J bled since the pre~ent GoYe~-nn1ent a~-'~nmcd offic0. Th?t incrcwe has been lJroug-hi abont fron1 no other can .e than bad g·ovcrnrnent.

The SEcRETA!lY FOR PrBLIC INSTRUC~IOX: Fifteen years of h<1d Labom government .

1\fr. BO\Y: I am sab;fi-ccl that the people of Queensland wou1d much nrder to ]l\·e f1fteen -:C'a.rs under a Labour Government to living 'three years under the Moore Go­vernment. I know that, if the hon. mernbe"

Address in R,ply. [18 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 325

for Gympio lwd his \Yay, it would be a case of "Ii'i:re low, and lay then1 out!"

~fr. TozF:R: Ii vou had a father as good BR mine, you would bo a better rnan. (Laugh~ ter.)

::>Ir. TIO\Y: I had hitter exporicncc of the h011. 1nembor's father.

The GoYernnlf''l.t n1ay ha.ve son1'0 knovvledge of the rc]istration of unemployed 60 far as th0 cities are concerned; but if consideration is o,-iven to the lar~·e nurr{bcr of no1nadic \;orkcr-; \Y~1o do n0t n· gisttr, then I an1 satis­Hcd thQt b;c nncn1ployn1cnt Df;ures '\Yould be incrc '''ed b,v 25 per cent. I know from per­sonal C'>:per i<>llce in ·western Queensland that there are hundreds of men carrying swags to-day-a tl1ing quite nnknov\'n during the Labour rcg::me. Under tlH ·O circun1stances it is rather amnsing to hu:tr hon. members on tho Covernn1cnt side sav that th0re is onl,v a small pcrccr!tage of unemployed and that no one is st~rving. \Ve know that charity is beiPg doled out to many people, irE"pecti•o uf what the Government are doing.

To judge from the speech delivered by the hon. Ino·nbt'r foe _\jbcrt, one \vould i1nagine that thcT'J was no oth~~r industrv in C'ueens­land than dair:·ing. The hon. 'memb~r was quite eorrcct \vhen he said that the Premiers' plnn wonld get 11s nowhere. I am quite satis­fied th,1t that is "'"·

~,Tr. TozER : He did not say that.

::\Ir. BO'vV: He as much as said that, beccmse he want~d to know how far it was goin~ io c'rry them. At the best it is only a palliative. and it will be found before very hur' that another plan will have to be brought into operation. I-Iow are the various GoYLtnn1cnts g'Ding to pay interest on the arnount of rnoney thty are borrovv·ing? The Prcmierc;' plan >'.ill get us nowhere. \Ve know ve,-v well that the interest cannot Lw pnid ...

::\11". 'l'OZER: \Vhy did your people borrow it'

!\Ir. BOW: Whv did the hon. member's forefather.; borro<:. it 'I Whv did Griffith and :\Icllwraith borrow it? The hon. mcm­h'r has done as n1ueh borrowing as ever I have done. Thn hon. member moved the Adclrcc,s in Reply, and thought he had done something I'Yonderful.

The SEC"R~'L\TI.Y FOR PeBLIG I'iST1ll'CTION: You arc not gcttin:::- Yery far.

. Mr. BO\V :. I mav not be getting very far. hut outs1de I sha \l get just as far as the hen. gentleman. The workers of Q':'censland to-dny know that th0 biggest n11~take tlw:v eyr r n1ado 'vas 1.vb<'n thev f;Ut. the Labonr GovcrninP-nt out of llOWel:, .J," that Government -,,as g·iving thern sorne­ihing. But '"hat h . ve they got since tho pre•wnt Govcrnrncnt en me into n0· .. er? "\Ye hPnrd o lot ab!Ju+, the necessit7 for a change of Gol.~crnn1cni-. ~

GoYEHx::nEKT ~\tE.\;~BEn~:;: Ficar, hrar!

. Mr. BO\V: Uon: members opposite say. '·Hear. !war!'' During the elections thev s:1id, '' Givo the hov a ~hnnce !'' :Have theY :;:iYPn hin1 a cht.nce?? Thev ('annat answel~ that question. They hove not ,g-iven the bov nn:v chance wh,1t0vcr. The number of womcll rep;ic;terrd in Queensland to-den' as looking f~r cn1plo:vment ::;nrpasses anything in the hiStory of Quernshnd.

Mr. N"DHIO: \Vhat is happening in New South Wales?

Mr. BO\V: J'\m·cr mind about New South \Vales! \Ye have to put Queensland first. ~1\._ll the hon. :;:ncmbcr's interests are in Queensland, and particularly in Ipswich, and he should keep to Queensland. \Vhat havo the Government done fol· the workers of Queensland since they took office 7 They have given the boy no chance. The various members of tbe Government stated definitely tlmt thev would not interfere with the Arbi­tration Court . .-et the,- cliJ interfere with it. The Prc.lnier sftjd on t.he hu:-~tings that it was ridicu!o11o to sav that he would rL'tlue:e wa.g-:;, oe c-ondition :~~·et, a a result of ouhide influence, he wa · eompdlcd to do so. l"'c had to do p- he wa told. The Government are co 1pellPd to carry out what­ever in,,truction::.; <l re g·iven th('m from out~ ~idc. That l why they are doing their JOb El-0 \Vt1 l1.

The eo t of li...-jng has come dnv;n verv little in the >VC'tcrn parts of Queenslrrnd ·; and. nol--:ithstanding the fa.c'" that men in the \Yr et arc a'ked to -.- ork for £1 and 3Gs. a we0k, :no; one extrn n1an has been foand cmnlo"l"mc~:t in the \Yestern district<. The landholdcr 1"-ot imtructions from the banks to reduce their employees.

A GoVERX~TEXT Mnmrm: That is not true.

Hr. P-0\Y: I kno·.r that is so. They were told to get rirl of thclr domestic st~rvants and only to keep on on the' place. I quite undcrst 1 :1d ·what the position is. T}v:~ Sec~·c­tar:v for AgTiculturr. when speaking the other nig·ht, outlinr~d the arnount of 1noncy tl' at is bciiJg ~pent on the rural industry in the con ~inl [ll'l'US; and lt is rather surprising to learn that practically nothing at all has br~.,;l n l1o•·d'"d to the grazing selectors in the we~t·crn districts.

The Pnc:.TI.R: \\-hat clo you mean by that"

i\h. BC\V: \Vhat has the hon. gentleman given?

The PnE:\IIER: \Vo ha Ye giYen them a reduction in rent.~.

i\lr. BO\V: Th~ Go.-ernmcnt have gi.-en them ab olutcly nothing.

The 1-'RE:\IIE~: \\7 (' have given tbcn1 over

£So.cnc th-ough reduced rentals. Tell the truth!

:\le. BOW: The hon. gentleman said dis­tinct! v 011 the floor of this House in 1927 that ho had 110 tin1o for the ~razing selector -t'mt ho bit the hand tha( feel him-imd t11e hon. [;Cntleman has given him nothing· SlllCC.

The I'REmER: The hon. member for Grcgory ~..;.id \."\'O gave hin1 too rnuch.

:iVlr. :BOW: The Premier knows that he said that on the i1oor of the House .

'The PRnilER: I know I did. I do not den:· it. Don't thinl' tlutt I am going back on anything I ~aid.

Mr. TIO\V: The hon. gentleme,n does not intend to ["ive those men anything. He is g+dng it to the bigger intcrPsts in the shape of cxten· ion of leases; but he di-d not give the grozins selectors an extension of coun­try. He has absolutely refused to givo them a Jiying area. If the,v could get a living area, they would be able at the wry least· to emplo,v a few more hands, but the hon. member is not prepared to give them that.

A GoYERx}IEXT ME)lBER: Who ga.-e them the small areas?

11Ir. Bow.]

32;) Address in Reply. !ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

~lr. BUW: The Labour Partv gave them the area' thd they a:·.ked for: Thev c·ot \',~h.,tcvC'r are·t thl~.V appliod for froffi t'ho J ~lLoar GoYorrnnent.

The PRnfiER: Oh, no, they dicl not.

~'fr. BO\\:": They 1.\'f:l'C offr red extcnsion3 of k '"·e.;; in 19S8.

-=:;7:' ~RETAR~ FOR Pt.: I -,re LAKDS inter-jr

~fr. DO\V: rrhc hon. n1c1nbm· ls tho Sr'cre­ta: for :Public Lands. but cverv tiruc the n -.t :1 e11 the land i~ referred to lie is think­ill;::!,' hout thP "cnrl.-::y" b.nnc:c \'l o ga..-e th~~ people at that ti1no what we considered to l•c :" 1]-..-ing area.

'.rho ~:-~-nETARY :FOR P\_'DLI(' LAXD.'~: ~\ star­Yat·ion ar _•,t.

).lr. BO\-\ ... : The preso_!t Govr~ril~1cat are not Jll'0p nod to give Lhcm anything else but a ~ ,uvalion area.

Tho SE:CRETAUY FOR PLDLIC LA)IDS: ·y( . .,~, \vc are.

~\lr. BO\Y: The Premier absolutely turned dc\\Tn the request of the ~Plcct ors of the \\'f'~~tern district.:; for a liYing [!rea. The S""crc ~: for Public Lnnc~s is quite prcprrrC'd to 1C't Prcrnier dictate to hirn in his pc.sition ::\Iinister. _._-\ccording to <t lei-t'r J.'C'tad on floor of thi c.; H ousc, the Pecnlier di~-;tincth' r0fu,,0d to give thun an cxtnnsio.n of a reil ~and t'hc Secrci :trY for Public Lands is quit prepared to "'"'':'" with that. \','hv i~ lH' nut inclcpcnde:1t -t "louo·h to rri..-c it t;J ·~..honl, and not ko\v-to\Y to t""Tthc Pl~cn1ier or an~-one nlse? It is un to the Sccrctarv for

L:nld3 to si"a;d np his position,

for. those pcopJc what arc askillg

r:rhc SEC'RETAl{Y T"on ]>rr-::_rc L.\XDS: It \\.ls up to youl' CoYen~rncnt to giYc thcrn a liYing area.

=\fr. :r;r)\\,r: \\-hC':n thC' le .SCS \YOre cxpir-WC gave thc1n an -icn up to bYentv-

vears. :\fen lenses had o .. iv fmtr ~;u to rnn v-::_•ro 1l i\·cn oxtcnsious uP lo t-..~·ent_,·-0ight ycarci.

Many of the ;c sclcctoro 0\Ycrl £10.,_00 or £15.000 to the banks. which

for, rlo.- .~ 0~1 thcn1: bnt .1nc~.:· [~lYe thc·rn,

r_'r Hl ·oup their lo other ho.nd, W•c hc·1..rd the' bon. n1~1nber for GrPg-ory read in this Chamber the letter ' hich the Pr ·:nicr \\rote to l1in1. in \Yhich h0 ab2olutcly refused t() g·jyp an Ps:tcn.~ion.

TlH~ Sr-:cREL\-t~Y ron PrBLir I.r·.xns: Ile did not.

Mr. 1~0\V: \Ye ]:now that the Go'.'l'l'n· mc .. t onlv stndy the iutcrc ts o£ the "'"]thy cl <'S n£ thd r-orninnnitv. Tt is onl\- Hw holder~. of t-he big· ., ru1S -whn are g~tting

:-, [r. J-\' Ex:,-y : Thcodorc r.; n vo t hcn1, too.

:!Ir. BO\V: \Vhnt (Ed Thcodc::.·e give then1? l\!:r. IZL\XY: IIo ;:;a. Ye thcn1 oxtcnsjons.

Mr. BOW: 'To ,,!Jom? Mr. KEXNY: To the big m,,n and the Jittlo

Jl1fll1.

:Ylr. BO\Y: The hon. member rloes not know anything about it. He was up North trying to get out of debt when it happened, and ho did not follow it up.

:\fr. Kn;xy: You aro not out of debt yet.

[Hr. flow.

::\lr. J>O\f": Now :J.nd again the hon. rncm-bor to I ight with a bit of flashncss, but clcos not know anythinc aboc.t thco,o <1uestions. The Gover.:uncnt arc not doing their duty by the workers. 'I'hoy rcduci11g wages, and at th.J san1e ti1nc~ arc not allo\Ying the Conunissionpr of Fixing to d•J his with the result cv1 r--;:- )n~ knov-.s that of liYiu ,, ha-· not "Con1u do\vn to like the .._:,a"no c~:tcut a,s tho \Yagcs ·workers.

The Gm crnmcnt evidently bww very ··•ell how ti-~~1 st ':nd wi,~h the people _of. Qcll c-·s· lanJ. lHl'J Kuuw unat, lll fip1te o1 what UH~.Y 1nay do in the way of an1ending the Elec­tond District3 At t, they arc in a pl,~tty bad way ; and thc: 0 • think the br st thing to do i3 to restore tho lJ pp er I-Iou.sc. Hon. rncn1~ hors opposite say that the Labour Party abolished the upper House; but it has l, ·,n proyeJ bcvond all doubt by the ho11. rn("ll­

hcr for } Iindcrs that a majorit:c of the Opposition at that tin1o voted in fa Yo:.lr of the abolition. How can thcv trv to m.; " out to·dav th:ct the restoratioi; of 'the upper I-IotLC jg ~a good thing for ~t:ccnsland, .,l1en at that time they were in favour of its abolition., I dare say that the trmh is that they sec tho writing on the 'va1l. and red; .c th''t, no matter how they distribute the electorates er chop thc1n about. the peopiA haYc made up their minds, ·nJ are determined that a change of Govcrn1nc.:1t is Illoro lL·cr ~sur · no•.v than at the L, ~t elec­tion.

''r. C-'R'TER (i!if oy) [4.30]: I rioo to lwforo the Hou.ic, and.

cihcr hon. :rnf'mbcrs, I tho

CJgr ;tulac;o·cs to the mo·cer and upon th -..;cry a.h1n addresses

by them. to rcf,,,. to the a.p:1I01;ching

ExL ,Jiency Sir John Good· CoodY,in. Quecr:"l.!ld hrs

;_;lad·; fortullnto in hu.vin·., hud s'l-:.c:t a distin,>·ui•;hcd English , uch a C'lpa!Jle nw.n as Sir no doubt tha.t he has taken not only in the social life Q1Ponslancl but al· o in the

Sta:-". Ho has trayelled donr,t at rw l'', onal incon­

; but I am Buro the know­stained :.>s a result of those

}1o ot considerable be1K£lt to ~\Then Sir J ohTl returns to the I run quite sure that he will rni<:conccptio:rr of the CC'JiWn11c

Ouee21s1and that is apparent on cide. of the '::odd. ·with otfwr hon.

extend to His Excellency and \Yi -~1 fo1· a ~afo v Jyage and

to the Oid Land. I hope for rr.a.ny long ~~ears to

good health and happrness. _:~];;; Excrll(•n,~y, jn clelivering hi,s Specr:h,

siatc.l that oYer 4,000 pcl·petual leasehold r: •lcctions and a lar~;e nurnbcr of 11erpetual icasr•hold allotments ~had been convo"ted to fn~eholding tenures under the amenc:ing l~gis­lation pa~ .. :ed hy this Government. ThosP roma,rks take n1c buck to the tirno 1YL0n the ~Jarty no1v i 1 oppc ~ition vigorousl;v con­dcmuod the ]Jo!ic" of e freehold tenure on the f\l'Ound that that polic:: would not assist land settlement, and that the lea, hold tenure was c-quall • as good and oquall;- as desirable to tho f'e1octor. 'rhc ver,y fact that in one year 4,000 norpetual !caschold selections "·ere con. vcrtccl to the frcoholding tenure conclusiYoly

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 327

rwo.-cs thet the freeho!ding t~nure is the most desirabb for the selectors, and it speaks ,·olumcs for the policy adopted by this Go­Ycrn:mcnt. 'rhat is onJ7 one of the many Ill!? -~:~Ul'C'l 1n.ssed hy,. the GoYernrnont to oncoura --e land cettlemcnt. \Ve reali3e that the fre"hold1ng tonure is an important factor, becaw,c the selrdor likes to feel that he owns the property rather than feel that he is PlCr01y a tenant. It is very gratifying to the Go.-ernment to know that that number of ~onvcrsions took place vvithin a period of twcl.-o months.

At 4.33 p.n1.,

The CHAIR1IAX OF CmniiTTEES (JYir. Roberts, Ha.'1t Toawo' 1n 1;a) relieved 1Ir. Sp,-aker in the chair.

]\lr. CARTER: His Excellency also stated that twenty-fiyo settlers had been established on tobac<·o farms in the :\iaroeba district, and that it was the intention of his advisers to make furl her areas available for the same purpose during the current year. If this in­dustry is properly fostered, cared for, and t~xperinv dted with :it will beco1ne ono of the most important industries in this State and perhaps in the Commonwealth. Australia expencle £3.000.000 11er ammm for the pur­chase of tobacco. I have smoked both the l\;larceba tobacco and the Bow en tobacco; cmd I h.,ve no hesitation in sa. ing that they <Compuo fcnonrably with any imported articl(:. Queensland is able to prodnce a cif!:arc•t te leaf Nplal to the imported article; aud tl::1t faet furnishes a ba.sis upon which this irnporb.tnt industry mwst succeed if pro­perly deYelop•,d. I do not claim for one moment tint the JI.Iarecba and the Do wen dis­tricts are the only c!isti·icts in Queensland (;8,pable of proJucing a. type of tobacco acCL'P' a blc to the palate of the Australian smoker.

I run gi':on to that a ver ... ,· suit-able ;-ne::t of l::u:d s for tnLacco-g1~owing c:-.:.lst,, in the 1\hri::_m V'" ale di:;;trict; and I l1 YP no doubt that nrcas suit"~ble for the culture of a high-qualit:: tobacco leaf exist in n1~1!~Y ot::crr parts of Queensland. The r ,•parLnr llL of Af~Ticulture will be \VCU advi:"3C'd to sc~uch ~ CYCl'v' avenue and lend c·yory ao~i tan cc to this i'ndustry. If Quocns­lnnd <'o:dd - ro :c:uf[cicnt tobacco leaf to

rcrptirc•n1cnt;:, uf Australian con~ it v:o11ld me ,n that the £3,000,000

no\v sent out of Australia annuallv for -.,., ould bo rPtaincd in the courl~ t1·~~, and to that extent wuuld a,,.,,jst very f''l~1:'iic1L~·abl:v to EJd.iust our trade balcncc. Tt -~vonld also bu the n1cans of fi:1dlng \York fo1· ' r:~ nuu1y of oar uncm11loyed. ~ I am ,·er~; keen to sec the Denartmcnt of Arrricul­luro go to no end of t"roublo to as>i;t this :;oung l1ut in1portant national industry.

One of the drawbacks confronting settlers L•,:yJel'irnenting in tobacco cnlturo is the neccd~ .:::ity for c:!n~tructing cur.ing sheds to curo the loaf after it has bc,cn harvested. Man"( clectoro; may be of the opinion that they

have land which is suitable for tobacco­/;'l'O\\'ing; but fcrw selectors ,vill ri~k con­stnJcting ~ curing shed costing £150 with­out first knowing whether or not their land is suitable for tobacco~growing. \Vhen ;1.

"'kctor de ires to experiment in tobacco­growing, a departmental export should be ;.cnt out with :', view to te_:ting the soil, and, if the test is favourable, to advise the selec­tor. The department at that stage might also a, sist financially to construct the curing

dwd. I commend the suggestion to the Minis­t:~r for hi,-, consjdcration.

I als·o notice that the Governor in his Spc0ch states-

" In ac'ordanco vvith the agreement rpachcd at the Premiers' Confercnc \ all controllable Qo;-enllncnt expenditure n;u~t be drastic.Jly curtajlcd in an organised .attempt to baloncc Budgets. I{.igid cconon1~ ls being continued in the public sc-rYicP, and, apart fron1 rc~uc­tions ur~dL'r i.Le Sqlaries Act, expenditure has been rcduc .. :d substantially in various 1·. ays."

\\'hi 1st cxp~'nrl iture has bc'-'11 reduced very conc'idcrably in every department, I for one bclicYP th ,t c><pendituro coJld bo still further reduced i11 n1any departrnent~., and not by the recludion of the wages of the loFcr-rn:tid servanb. \Vhen \.VC analy,_;o the

· positior,, we find that the Railway Depart­ment is practically the o,-,ly_ department that has cffoctec! any great savmg. The Secre­t3.l'V for Raih\'ilYS is to be congratulated on ,, the ( ffort. ho ~ hn; n1.adc jn economising in his dcnartment; but he has been forced to g0 to fh,l extent he has done by a falling revenue.

:'IIr. O'KEEFE: You did not say that when you were an employee of the department under the Labour Government.

~\Ir. CART_EP": I an1 not -~dvorating nov: that a nv Government unploycc should be exploited, and I do not intend to be dragged away from my JlOint by the hon. member. \',~hat I '"ls proceeding to s'ay was that thoro is too mnch reel tape in all Governn1£mt dcpartnlcnt3. There ls too n1ueh centrallsa­!ion of administration. \Vithout doubt, Br~sb<:\TIC ~s an octopus on Cuec~nslund in that rr'~pc(:t. Goyc 1'nJncnt officials outside Bris­bane cannot tell ono tho time-not that r hcv do not pm s · s the a bilit0 to do so, but hec~lllSU iJ1r·\' have not the noccs'sary ::utlJOrjtv. }~Ycry sugge:-::tion must con1c to Brioba11~ fm' aprroval. If an official in the Central C:ictrict desires to alter a time-table fh-o minutes he must Jlrst seek authoriti' from Brisb."l~C. \Vhat does the of!1cial sitting in a chair in Brisbn.ne know about raihvay tin1c~tn bles in ~-he Central district? In every Government dcnctrtmcnt \vo find doln:c Mtd considerahln urlnecess'ary expcn",o owing to the fact that there is too much centralisation of ndrnlni·" c·ation in Brisbane. Our adminis-tration is too eo Considet: blo propa-e·anda has taken in the pr~ss about 'the cost of govornn1C'Jt, and cons1r~crab1e criticiom h~s hccn lcvdled at Parhamcnt been me of this fact; but no ono refers to the cm" of adminic,tro.tion. In 1914 the cost of f1C1rnini .. tnd:1on of the public scrYico was £L173,E\8. In 1922-which \vas the peak pC'riorl jn indtu-' ry in QnE~cnsland.~that BX·

p:•uclituro had incrCO'l'd to £2.693,017. In F29-30 it had still further incrccscd to £3,393.961, or 200 per cent. in cxccs' of the 'xncnrliturc in 1914.

:ivir. STOPFOHD: Look at all the extra taxa­tion your Government put on!

Mr. G\RTER: I need scarcely remind the hon. member of the extra taxation \Yhich --,as imposed by his Labour Government. Hmvevcr, I am convinced that the cost of administration is altogether too high. One of th<> principal factors in bringi1,1g about this high cost is that we have had too much ccntralLation in administration. I believe decentralisation would be more effective,

Mr. Carter.]

328 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

acd would be a considerably cheaper policy. Furthermore, we have too many highly paid officials and too many classified positions in our Government departments. I make no apology for making that statement. Take the Railway Department as an example­and every other dcpartrncnt is more or less similarly situated. In Rockhampton c havo a genl)ral manage L~, a tr:-,ffic n1anagcr. a locornotjve engineer, a rauintouancc engineer, besides a multiplicity of chief clerks, staff clerks, arcountunts, pay-masters, etc. We have the same position in Brisbane, and in the North, and on top of that there is the Commissioner's office on .riding all these departments. which is nnother example of the overlapping of administration.

Mr. PoLLOCK: You must be getting close to a general election.

Mr. CARTER: I am merely pointing out lho e.rrors of past Governments. Prior to the advent of Labour we had decentralisa­tion, under which each departmental head "as responsible for his department, but the Labour Governm,mt appointed a general manager to take over all d apartments, and in a !most all cac,cs the general manage!· appointed was a traffic official, with experi· once confmecl to traffic work, although he \Vas placed in chan:re of civil Dnd maintcn­<~nrc engineers. That inst-;nce. so far as tlw TiaihYa:• Department is concerned, is typical of others.

A complete rct,hssification of the whole son-ice should be cc~rried out. A great number of highly paid officials could do the \Vork they now do for considerably less mone~.7 • In the public serYicc we have men drawing salaric; from £308 to £700 per annum who, if they were doing similar work in out' icle businecs hom":s, v. ould not be getting more then £5 per wc~k. 'The basic \'.age worker ha'i ll('en eKp!oited too much, \ chilst the higher paid public servant has been allo\r0rl to get awav with more than his fair share. I commend for the considera­tion of the Government lhe advisabilitv of f~rnbnrking- on a policy of d0centralisai:ion, nndr•r which each centre \YO'!Id take a little more res,1onsibili.tv than is the case at present. - ·

I also desire to refer to the allegations which from time to time ha,,c been levelled by hon. mc'mbers opposite that the Govern· mr-nt have intin1idat0cl the Indu~trial Court into reducin6 wage". that the GoYcrnment have reduced the '' 'gcs of their pnblic s2rvant~. ::~nd thilt they haye inspired a reduction 111 the stanrhrd of living of the workers throu;hout (tnccn -land.

If we take into consideration the effPctive \V:I:o v.h~~n tl1c L:tbonr Pa.rty were in pO\\~('r and comnare it Vi'iih th0 effective \vago prior to the rtth·ent of the Labour Governn1cnt. \Ye

find thet the workers were \YOrse off under the LabcJt~" Governn1cnt. than they \Yere pre­viousl:v. Tbat cann,)t be dtnied: and even the Labonr pap0r do not ·denv it. I do not wish to throw hnnq!wts at the 0p]10sition, but members of the Onposition are not fools. The; are ,·cry intelligent men, a.nd they rcabse that thrre is nothing ahead of Queensland except to do what the present Government hnve done. The·,· also realise that an f'heetion i' looming, "and that the popular attitude to take up is to advocate whatever ma3· arpear to be to the advantage of the worker. 'Vhen we take into considera-

[Jh·. Carter·.

tion 1he f<~ct that the national annual income has fallen approximately by £200,000,000, one cannot but realise that we mu~t have an adjustment of expenditure not only by Go­vernments but by individual members of the conunUnity. If th0 country is not earning the 1nonoy. then the conntry cannot go 011 pendin~:; it nnlc«>;; we get loan n1o1w:,' to

bridge the gulf. I do not think any m'm who has O\"en a sn1attcring of finance would advo­cate the bridging of defJCits from loan money, becaw0 that was the polic0• which brought Queensla;od and Amlralia. to the position we arc in o t the present time.

Let n1c revert to wbat I had to sav about the effective age. Prior to the acfvent of the Labour Government. the 'vorkers of th:is State •scre better off th.on they 1Yerc during the reign of the Labour GoYermnent or oven than they are at the present time. Iu sup­port of that I propo·''' to quote frem Lahm•r newspap-'rs. Tbo "Daily Standa;:d" of 14th March, 1922, had this to Be:--

" The actual In.oney value of the pre­sent high wage is 11 per cent. le···· than durlng the pre-war pei·iod. As a matter of cold fact the Australian workers were reroiving higher -wa.gcs teu years ago than at any pc:-ri od since."

The " Standard" admits that prior to 1912 workers \verc actually receiving an effective wage of 11 per cenl. gre:cter than in 1922. \Vhat option was there but to reduce expen· diture?

TJ · SccRET).RY FOR LAn-;r__-R AXD I~DLSTRY: \Ye ha ,.e had to reduce.

Mr. CAR TEE: Yes, the Government have had to reduce. Thev had no alternative. When the present Government took office, we had a fall in revenue and an over· d;:dfed public service, and the GoYi'rnment had to do somcthin;;. Expenses had to come dow1:, othcn' i !:_~ the deflcits would have been greater than cycr: and the position 'vrhich confronted the GoYf'l..'nn1er!t wus how to bridge tho:-;e r cfl( :,ts. Th~ GDvernmcnt tho:1ght it far hl'ttcr to stabilise the position (or the pcrblic eervants than to follow the policy aclopiul by 1\lr. L·ng and ieaL' the publjc f.:eryants in a fool's po radi;-,c as long ;1" pos·~:blc and tlwn ha Ye no n1oncy to pay them at all. I propose to quot0 also what the "Railway Advocate" said on the dl'ective value of \"age,,. Tho HRaihv1y Advocate" of lOth February, 1922, hacl this to say-

" The bC<sic \\'age iu 1911 ,, as 51s. 3cl., equal to £5 17s. 4d. in January, 1922. Therefore ihe prPscnt basic v.ago is 17s. 4d. per week less than in 1911."

'Those two quotations should ho quit0. sufli. cicnt fot my argurncnt.. in viP\v of the sourcr from -.- 1lich they come. They uphold our argument that it is not so much a high wage which is desirable as a v, age which will on1,h1e the workers to purcha ·e the requi­site , amount of comrnorlities. I believe in a high shndard of living; but. after all, a high degree of comfort is required, and not n1t)r,:ly a high rate of v•-age. \Vc can ha\ c a hlgh standard of living with a lower ,,-age. After all, \Vhat have high wages meant to us? Once the purchasing po"-('J: is dimjn1shed to such an extent as to deprive workers of any advantage they might gain by high wages they are no better off.

The high cost of production which has resulted has affected markets; and, in order to enable industries to carry on, it was necessary to introduce pools and various

Address in Reply. [18 AuGusT.] Address in Reply. 329

other forms of assistance. I fully recognise the help which pools have been to the pro­ducers, but pools can be carried too far. I believe that both must go hand in hand. If we have low wages, then we cannot haYe pools t.o protect the I_Jroducers and keep up the pncos of commodttJec.. If we have high wages, then we must have high costs to support those high wages. In order to show the way in which hon. members opposite are prepared to advocate a policy merely for the sake of political kudos and to show that they cannot possibly be sincere in their advocacy, I propose to quote the utterances of prominent Labour leaders. and first some remarks made bv 1\ir. l\1cCormack. The present Gove.rnmen.t have been repeatedly accused of domg thmgs they had no occasion to do. We have been accused of reducing \Yagr's ,,,hen there \Yas no occasjon to rc·duce thPm. Lot us sec what JVIr. McCormack raid when in England-

" Anstra11 a must face boldly her pre­sent difficulties in order that good shall como from evil," said Mr. \V. McCor­mack, ex-Premier of Queensland, in an addrc-s to the Birmingham Clucmber of Conunercc.

"_.._\ustralla's difficulties, ho f3aiJ nrosc frorn wartirne inflation, v, hen ll~r pro~ duct::; \Voro sold at hillh price~, vvnPn \Yagt:s rocJe, and when conditions appronclwcl the ideal. :\ow Australia \Yas f'ntcri··r{ a second p0riod. nanH:lv that of dr l'c.tion. The ]JrOCloS of goir!~ bark \Voulcl not be eas~:. Orga11i~.;_;d Labour hated to realise th"t the ideal conditions must be sacrificed. Australia's nurcloasing power "·ould bo d!ruiltishecl by the fall of wool pr-iecc. Australia was defmitely protectionist, but the hri!fs \Yore unsC'ientiflc and v:,·ould hc:~.vc to be aclj ustod in some directions.

" Ono of the mistakes that .Ln,bour n1adp "\\,-as to pt~rsuade the Govf'rnment to do unc('onomic things, said l\1r. :\IcCorm"ck."

lVIr STOPFORD : \Yhat arc you quoting frorn?.

-:vh. CAHTEH: I am quotino- frnm the "1\,lcgraph" of 26th Scptcmb:r, 1929. I further propose to quote in support of mv arf!urnont the ren.1ark-. of the prr·'.~cnt Fcdcra~l Treasurer. :\Ir. Th0oclore, when speaking- at th8 Hoya l Shmv lnnchcon in Svdncv on 17th "\pril, 1930- " "

''The dirni11uticn in our national income hn.s resulted in the people havino­at least £W.OOO.OOO a y<'ar l0ss to S)Hmd~ Thero is the explanation of our most serious prol)lrnl. It js as plain ns a pikestaff. The facts aro so obvious that every intelligent man must r~alise that a solution must be found. ·whether we like it or not, we arc compelled to resort to economy, economy by Go­Vf'l~ninents, and b:: comrnunities as ;,.vcll."

Furthermore, I propose 1:o quote the nmarks of the prcser.t Foclcml Minister for Trade and Customs, as reported in the Rockhamp­ton "Evening News" of 16th April, 1930. Mr. Forde had this to say-

" It is very pleasing to find that all sectiorcs of thinking people are prepared to co-operate with the Government in putting Au"tralia's bouso in order, so enabling us to prepar0 to enter upon a new era of proopority," said :Mr. F. l\L

Fordo (Acting Minister for Trade and Customs) to-day.

"Unfortunately," he added "the Scullin Government came into office dur­ing a depressed period of Australia's history, and is compelled to administer medicine instead of a candy stick."

This Go"";~ernmcnt also came into po;,.ver during the west dcprc-,sing period in Queens­land's history, \Vith a legacy of debt, "\vith a, falling rna.rkct. with a reduced revenue all round, and with an adverso exchange position brou,::ht about by the short-sighted policy of the Federal Labour Government.

I do not take members of the Oppo"ition e,eriously. ·when they refer to the Govern­mcmt 1s haxing rcdUQ{"'~d v;lages and the stan­dards of the living of the people, I realise that their statements are nothing more or less than political propaganda made for the rmrposo of catching Yotes on polling day. l3Pfore leaving that question I would point out to hon. members opposite that every Government in Auetralia has been forced to follow the lead of the Queensland Govern­nwnt. The Federal Labour Government has reduced w::tgTJ to aa equal extent to the reduction in Queensland.

GOYER;,i~IE!-;T MniBERS: l\'1ore.

Mr. C \RTER: In South Australia the Labour Government under Mr. Hill have also red~tccd wages. In Victoria the Labour Government have also been forced to reduce wages, and in New South \Vales the L"bour Government under Mr. Lang first refused to recognise economic factors, and allowed the State to drift and drift until they got' into the position that they could not Ptt:V, and now even thev have had to fall into line. Every Government in Australia has boon compc:lled to follmv the policy of the ::\1oore GO\·ernnwnt; and th,, t very fact shows the farce of hon. members opposite accusin' our Governrncnt of reducing \Vages, and ck 'rs th('lll of the stigma which the Labour Party would seek to put upon them.

A good deal has been s:tid from time to time with reference to the Railway Depart­ment, and I propose to deal with that ques­tion. \\'hect one looks back on what hap­pened a few voars ago in the Hailway Department, one realises the means by which it became oyerstaffed. It became over· st"ffcd as the result of political interference, as it may L.; termed-as a result of poli­ticians tr_:-:ing to reL~in their supporters ancl organ;scr.s in positions handy to them at election time. All the workers thev wanted for polling· drry. all the people they· could lay hands on for that purpose. were clumped into the Ro.ihvay Department, whether they were competrmt to do their jcbs or other­wise. I have been talking of this phase of the question long enough, as I think the hon. member for Rockhampton can be;u \Yitnoss.

Another of the principal reasons which brought about the overstaffing of the depart­ment was thr,t. when the fort';-four hour week was introduced. tho Raih~·ay Depart­rncnt waR experiencing· ono oiT its peak periods. It 'vas in the :tnidst of a very severe drought, and, as a. result, it was necessary to shift many trains of starving stock and haul many trains of fodder for starving stock. \Vhon the forty-four hour week "'"' iPtroduccd at that time. the depart­ment adopted a wrong and stupid policy.

Mr. Carter.]

330 Address ir, Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] ArJdress in R·,p!y.

The policy pursued by the Labour Govcrn­rncnt of cJa:· ~ifying such a large nurl!bcr of positions \vas an insane policy, and I nutke no apology for that statement. It was pointed ant by san<.'r contl' cls at the time that, when the peak period was passed, the clepartment "ould be over,taffed. It li\·as tbc nolicv of the Government of the day to a6point as many as possible to the railway shff, but whether the Hailway Department desired to pursue that policy or not I do not know.

The SECRETARY FOR HAJLY,'AYS: The Labour GoYernnwnt permanently appointed 3,000 ternporary men that year.

~fr. CARTEH: Thcv cla.o,ifted firemen as driY'2r~, cleaners as '!irmnen, shunters as o;uards, etc., but immediately the ch·ought broke the bottom fell out of tlw railwav traffic, and the department was considerably oYerstafied !on;; before tho depression rrrrivccl. The overstaffing in the R.ailway Depa.rtment was brought about by the poli­ti~al misme of the railways by the past Government and by the im "·n'' police the clcpartn1cnt pursnf'rl during the introduction of the 4.1 hour week.

l\Ir. O'KEEFE: '\V ore you not ono of the railwav PmployC'os whO . .1Histod to bring that condition about?

l\11-. CARTER: No. ]Hr. '\V. FORf".\:-i S:~rrTII: At ,one time you

were rPgardod as a '' red" in the Railway Department, P.nd you pmcd as a militant.

:Vlr. C.'\HTEH: '\Vho told you that? Sor,rcborly lws been pul!in(i the ·ban. mem­ber's leg. Th8 railwn~v f'rnplo:·cf:; "·ha have heen recently rlismiP' eel have only the mem­bers of the Opposition a' a Government to thank. The rn'C~ent Govcnnncnt were faced vvith a falling revonnc to the extent of £J50,DOO por annum. with a defrcit that hnd alrPacly r~aclwcl £1.500,000, and they {'ould n rlopt no ol hC'r altr;:nativc but to dis· T<:i". :-:oJTI~' of thC' rail,:·ay en1ployePs. The positio11 thus oreatcrl in the H •ihva:· Dcpart­nH~n:- d<'rnandin~ the L1i.~111i-' al of some of the cmplovr•cs i a re''ponsibilitv that mu't be a~··u·ded by nlt'lnberE> of the 01•rwsition.

At 5.4 p.rn., ?.f.r. SPE.\KEU rc\nnled the ch[lir.

::)Il·. C._\l{TER: There ~s one aspect of the railway position with whir h l ''i'h to deal, and I invito all hon. members and the Sccretarv fnr Railways in :)adicular to listen attentively. \Yhat I have to say on this o~ca,ion can b' bar·ked FP on any future occasion. Under the policy of ecn­traliration adopted by the Labour Govern­n1rnt there was too 111uch dominance of prac­tic'll n1en bv 1ncn ,,~ith nothing n1orc the1n clerical r:ducution or experience.

:VIr. W. FoRG,\X SMITH: Thrrt is a !lOW one.

Mr. CARTER: It may be now, but it is a fact. 1\:Ien with no civil engineering expcrjcnce or rnC'chanical expcrjcuco \Y0ro put over qualified ofiicia ls, and at the prcst1 nt iimo '"~.~ haYe too rnurh derjcul dorninanco of prart!cal rr:en. That is respon­sible to a Ycry largo oxtcn t for the cxpcn­~iYP \Yorking of the departrnent in manv instances. I should like the Minister to comicl<er a propccal to place the control of the dcpartrnents under the re~\pcctiYe quali­fied heads. If tho Government v:ere to adopt the policy in existence during the time of the Donham Govcrrmcnt, of giving

[ 2f1r. Carter.

tho control of the departments to tho respec­tive he , cls, the; railway systen: would not ouly be more cfl'ecti ye]y and more efficiently :lllminish'rECd bnt it would be more cheaply n cllninistered. That is \Yhy I ~ug~~est that the f)ecrctary for Railways should give serious con.,irleration to wlnt I have stated.

Considerable criticism has been levelled at the Premiers' plan in this Chamber. The Oppmition in this HoL!SO ha' declared itself against the rnajor portion of the 11lan. IIon. rnen1bers OPllosite hnxc dcclurcd ihernsclves agni1 -.Jt any reduction in wages, salaries, social senicc ·, or anything of that character.

:\1cmber ~ of the Opposition must realise th ,t is no other dtcrnatiYe. 'Thee: Juu,st b.,' to the fac~ that every Goven{M mcnt in ~\nstl'alia has adopted this policy.

kno th c. t •. Pll, and thev also know ·win·. Tl1c-, ,'re no"t serious in

>nu· of the~ plan; but. b~~cause conti11~c t-o criticise it in this Cha1nber,

\Yo n1ust take tLcm s'erionsly, and must accept ti1cil' ,,icw"' as being their policv should they lw r ,mmcd to the Gon>rnmont benches. If ,~. e 1nust rtccept their present criticism t:s their police,, then, if that chould happen, 1'Jey will not honour th·; Premiers' plan. i\"hat wonld bo the efFect of the Oppo-ition gain1ng r:-1ntrol of the Uovcrnrneut benches wxt year? They can only gain control by clduding 1 hll people by false promisoB, or by going lJn.ck on their staten1cnts on the hust­illfTS, if tl1ey desire to preserve financial stubility. 1 f the Opposition, in order to cUlT': fa your -,, ith the elector::;, \Yere to allow nner?rland to clrifL this State \vould ~oon he in t.ho position 1\:c:w South \Vales is in now Tb, nolicy no·Fv bclng adopted in

South \\-a 1cs <,·ould not permit 0ueens­to rotnain solYcnt for a- longer 'period

thn n twd•.~e n1ont.hs. Thcv ,-r;·otdd be con1~ peilt d tu foce ihe cconomi'c pr'Jb!ems which nO\Y ronfront w:.:ry Governn1cnt in Australia.

~.11'. '\Y. y,--OHG_~~ S:.!TTH: Do you think \.·c clo Hot. undcr;:;t~tnd cconon1ic problerr1s?

~,H. ciltTicR: I believe the hon. gentle­rnan nr -lcrstand econon1jc problcrns; 1_mtJ fl,Ju ~:is n narks, I believe that he- is ruorc (_ o .~C'enwd ·with the voting po\VOr behind his than 1n a frank expre~-sion of his \'if-ViTS. ~,\ otdd not so stlipid as to say

the Leader of Opposition doe5 not problr•ms, bcc,msc' he

gentlcn1an; !lOverihcloss, in .tnein·_r th•.:- Yiews L·~ has done fr01n time

tc. time a'ncl bv the criticisms he has levelled at the Gove{·nnH:nt, I belieYe he is not ., ... J.:iou.~ in hi:; criti{ :sn1s. The Government have cndeo.•. on red to do the right thing. We consider tho right thin,. is to preserve the ihaHcial and inchdrwl stabilitv of Quf'cnsiand That is \Yhat the Govern~nwnt

cndC'avcnuing to do. The~ GoYernnH:nt b that to b~ lho right nnd on!,'. pol!CY to put jnt'1 operation rP'Fl.rdh:;:; of currying pol:tic·ll L-1Your, the Yotcs ?f the peoplE\ or the rc-snlt of tho next electiOn. I feel sure, how •vcr. that, whc;n tho position is put h.foro the electors next year, they will feel lllOre incl;ncd to trl!st the devil they know thnn a party \Yho.:;e nwn1bcrs V.-"'ill try to gain po·,vcr by deludin:; und tricking the peoplc-.

:\Ir. "'ELLT?\GTO:\ (Charters Tou·crs) r~.8]: In nmmon \Yith those hem. mr mbcrs on both s·idcs of the House who have pre­ceded me, I wi .h to congratulate the mover and ' ;condor of tho Address in Reply. I

Addre, ' in Reply. [18 AUCKST.J Address in R. ply. 331

n ,:_;n~t tLctt I-Ii,· Excellency the Go\·ernor, ~:r John CoochYin~ i::; _hortl~-7 departing fron1 thio State. During his last tour north, he ,-isitc I fourteen stations and per -onally met tL2 children in t\Yenty-five schools. Fourteen of the ~ ':, ·hools 1,·cro in Chart0rs To\I'Cl'~. It \vas n1v privikge to accornpany His Excc;l!.::ncy to the prj1nary and secondary schools in Charters Towers and tho sur­rounrlin.:; di:-trict. At each schocl His

g<-tYe wise advice and oncourage­r,.cnt to c'mll1g people, \Yhich will not be soon forc-0tt,,n bv thc1n or bv the tecchers. I wish His Exc:~ilcncv and 'Lady Good\\in all h q1pince. and prosperity in t'heir futur•2 sphere.

Charters To1vcrs is the educational centre of the K orth. There are the iollov·ing­S\.condarv schools :-State Interrnediate and High School, State Tcdmical College. Thornborough Bo~-s and Bla,ckhcath Girls ('\Iethorlist and Presbyterian), All Soul's Bovs anf~ St. G.::cbriel's GirJs {Church of Enghtwl), and c,lount Carmol Bo: s and St. Marv's Girls (Roman Catholic). It is esti­matPcl th2t the expenditure of the colleges. roo·cthor \Yith the fees paid by prtrcnts and l"'latin·~ of the scholars is in the v1c1nity of £100.000 a The Yarious primary schools in the TmYcrs district are quite up to date, and considerable success ha, att ndcd the examinations held. I am in de btcd to the " Northern Miner" for the fdlo',\ ing illh'l'r:;;ting 1)aragraph :-

'· The amount of £2:0~8 12s. 1d. is lwnk·:cl to tile credit of Charter Towers ~)t do . ·hool children in the Connnon~ 1Ycnlth Savinr.:;s B<1nk. This illu1ninating 'o.c'_ Wets disclo-·~d yesterday by J\111-. G. LL \Vi~~on. princirnl of the State high a~1d int2rn1ediate schools. The nu1nber of _..cconnts open Lit 'th Jun. l~~c:-t

n 1.222, J1ld 369 nc\v accounts have been O}JE'DC'd since·. Th0 amount men­ricn-:·d is mndc up of 14), 18 d! :1osit:: The ll('f'(l for fmn1liarising vonth with the Yirtncs of thrift is realised by the Stnt·< edncation :uthorities more than c• er nt the present time, and the fruits of the lessons tau ,bt in thi' direction nro seen in the response by the children to tll•. p dYire to nnlko wL 0£ t.ho schools' h::-nL:ing sy ~r0rr1. It ~pc tks \voll for tho 0:nnc tness of the encleaYour being mad•" b:-,.- l' ',l.'Pnts to CJ-Ol)f'YtttC "\ ith the school .(luthoritics under the sv.;tenl, that in the pre.-ailing hard tim'; 1.591 childr-n h·,,-o bank ncrounts.''

It ;, encouraging to knov· that the children bt>ing· bron2;ht np \Yith a full apprecia­

tion of the Yalue of thrift. T}J~ GoYlTnor R1so vi · .. itcd the hospital,

in ;hi{'h, heing- a n1edical mnn, he was par­t.icnlarlv ink re .ted. His Excellency was .-e17 rrtu< h impress0d with the up-to-elate n:tturc of the oper 1 ti 1'{ room, X-ra. appli­ft11l Js, etc. As a m~ttcr of fRet.. it is genlralh~ sta'ed that the Charters Towers ho jpital'" ranks serond. to the BrisOane General H 02pita I in Q·,censiand.

Tl'c fl~Inbulancc centre was also Yi~itcd by I-Iis Exrc1lcncy. who \Yas gr~Jjftcd with what he sa,v. I r"av sav thn.t the Charten Towers T-Iospibtl is r;ot a districted hospital. Up to the present it has h;en carrying on with sorne sil~ht as,·ifitance frc m the Govern­ment. Dnring :he last two months the po··i­tion ha .. become most difficult. and I under­stand that. if nothing is done by the GoYcrn­m<e"t before the end of September, the

Charters Towers Hospital will probably be handed oyer to the Govermnent.

Another visit of intcJ"est which IIis Excel­lency pFtid \V<J..:> to the EYentide I-lon1o, ·vvhcre there arc <1t prc ~C'Jlt 136 old people and a staff of cightccn. One p] :a6in-- fcatt~r.e or that institution is the 3lTangrmc!lt \'VhlCh \Vas m ado bv tlw G ovcrrnnont vvborcby Dr. Choprnan, ,,:ho is an honorary ophthalmic ··pecialist, )Jeriodically visits the Eventide Home.

The bnr>ring question of the moment is gold. (Laughter.)

Tho s! _:1:{. TAHY FOR PoBLIC I:-\STRLJCTION: lJnfortunately, it does not very often burn our fing.Jrs. (Renewed laughter.)

;ylr. 'VELLINGTON: In his Speech the Go, ern or "tatecl-

" -~ great revival in prospecting, par­ticularlv for gold, is reported, as a result Of assistaece from tho GoYern­ment. The present increased value of gold makes this cla~s of rnininb verjT attractive at the proc.::ent tirnc."

lion. members generally will have some idea of tho irnportancr of mining 1vhcn I remind them thctt the total value of gold production in Qllecnshnd to the end of last year was £85,525,691. the total value of minerals other th~n golc' was £66,027,866,. making :t grand tot 'I of £151,553,557. Amongst the larg·c,t gold producers Vlere­

Chartcl\'3 TO\Ycrs },Iount ::\Jorgan Gyn1pie Paln1or l\1ount Coolon (1915 to

1930)

Ounccs. 6.673,984 5,100.643 3,391.241 1,329. 717

41,035 I may state that 1nen at present prospect­

ut }\Iount Coolon aro doing n:}.ry \Yell, their prospect~ n ro gond. A few men

:1r8 al3o out proBpechng at R'1Yens\vood and Charters Towers. The n1.:) t favoured place ~~ thP Loh~ccrth di~tric•_., about 80 m.il-:s fron1 Charters Towers. 2\Ir. J. Campbe!l"s Lucky Hill Exknded claim is doing , .. ,]]. The Lucky :Hit claim, b;;longing to Torkiugton and :C.IcBow, in March last crushed 7 tons 12 cwt. of stone. which vield~d 16 oz. 17 dwt. of retorted gold. .c\ few "lvccks ago thcv put through J tons 18 cwt. for 14 oz. 10 "dwt. of a Yaluc of £50 5s. 6rl. Han!ou and pa.rty, in the Snnc.hine claim. are doing good \York. It coct about £3 10s. per ton to ea rt that ore from Lol worth to Charters Towers for treatment. A rn..1n1l er nf married and single mt~n from Cl:. '.rtcrs T'o\N"rs arc doi.ng good work in eonnection with prospecting. The married 1ncn rer ··iyc 30s. and the sifl.~·Je men 20s. a \-; _ ck. I£ a mrr n can get 30s. ·a \veck to go ont prospr 'ting, he is producing someth.In~. That monev l·ocs round and round, and 1t 1s better for t'h~-· ma.n to bo ont prospecting than to Le standing at a stn'Dt corner. The 30s. ?"' 1vcek does not pay thotn; and in connection with one show the inspector of mines recom­mended the payment of so much per foot of ~inking, v. hi rh was acce}1tcd by the Secretary for :\fines. Thc,e Jleoplo crp on what they think is pa0'able stone. "I,Yithin the past b1·el e month the Commonwealth Govern­nJeut have s~1irr,~d overseas gold to the va.lue of £27.000.000, and, as the average annual :vielcl in Australia i~ _under £2,opo,ooo. last vc , r we Gent a wa v tnutecn years gold pro­cluction estimated on the present average ,-icld. Recentlv we exported an additional £5,000,000 \\ orth of g-old. That shows that

JJlr. Wellington.]

332 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

the gold mining industry should receive assistance. If the Federal and State Go­vernments had gi,·en the gold mining indus­try the same encouragement as has been given to the dairying and sugar industries, I think Queensland would ho,ve been in a better po,ition. ~With rcrra.rd to the gold bounh-: When

tlw Prem!C'r's 11Ian \vas adopted, the J?edcra.l Go,·enlment was compelled to reduce all expenditure nnder its control, including the large ftmonnt spent on bounties. The gold bounty was rf'duced, therefore. from £1 to 10~. an OU!1Ce while overseas exchange rN11ains at. ihc p:·e-,cnt le·. cl. ~-'ts the overseas cxchangG dln1inish{;::; so 1,vill a lJroportion of the original bounty be reotorcd. Taking the present ntte of exchan·~·o at 30 per ce>ut., the recluction in the gold bounty was justified, as this exchange is cquiYalent to a prcmiuru of approxinJato1y 24s. p·=-r ounce.

To corropcn ,,ttc the industry, ho,voYer, for any lo~'JS of pren:iiu1n due to a fall in ex­chan;;c, th GovPrnment ha.-e decided that, for ever~, r-·duction in the exchange by 3 per cent.. the bonus shall incrc~se by 1s.

oz. Thu '• whe~1 the exchange prc~h1n1 entir·d:· di,;appcarccl, the full tonus of

20s. ]Wr m.. will be naid. ~When the bounty \V '; fir~t introchlccd, ... the cxchn.ug...: rate \vas 9 P',~r c2nt.; now it is 30 per l nt., and the prcc'c-nt volurnc~ of production r•_ presents a l·cnl'fit of £[50,0CO a year to the indu:ilry. That C'xchangc advantage is likely to con­tinue for a,n jndefinitc period.

The i\Iinister for Customs explained at that time that the Goverum: ;Jt, would yeservo the right to rc.-iew the bountv in the event of Htc--"v.cho.nge being substantially irJCrea'<'d~ In the cir'. tln12tanccs the gold minjng indus­try is not being treated badly. It has not bec'n hit tn the same extent as other pri­mar:.- industries h,.,. th<C:~ dcprcs:·ion. EYen with th0 reduction in the bounty. the gold induob" will lw f;n b:ctor off than other industries. as is clear L·orn the following tabl· :--

Exehnnge Rate .. Exchange P1·en1ium nonnty (per ounce). (P''" o•mce).

£ 8. d. 8. d. 30 c' r cent. .. 1 4 0 10 0 27 prr cent. .. 1 1 11 11 0 21 ppr cent. .. 0 19 4 12 0 21 prr cent. .. 0 lG 9 13 ()

13 per cent. .. 0 14 3 14 0 15 per r•:nt. .. I) 11 8 15 I) 12 p(!f cent. .. 0 9 2 1G 0

9 per cent. .. 0 6 7 17 0 6 per cent. .. 0 4 0 18 ()

~per coL .. 0 1 6 19 0 Nil .. .. .. 20 0

- -- - --

The bount:· is not paid on the gold pro­duced in Australia, but only on the produc­tion aboYe the ayerago of the last three yeus, which is approximately 300,000 oz.

I recci,·od from the Department of Labour and Industry to-d<1y the following figures with rccpoct to the cost of Jiying in Charters Towers:-

1930. June 1931.

.J a,nuary February ::\larch April May June

[J1r. Wellington.

Index Figures. 978

903 920 925 920 914 914

According to those figur0s, there has been vcrv little reduction in the cost of living dur:ine: the last few months, the index figure~, C:ropp.ing sixty-four points fo1· the twelve months ended 3Dth .J unc, 1931.

Then I want to draw attention to the price of flour. At Charters Tower~ 2.000 lb. of flour, thirteen and a-third sacks, 150 lb. e-ach, make approximately 1,340 2-lb. loaves. The flour < 1sts £15 per ton dcliHJred at Charters' To~,, er" rrjlway station, with 4s. 6d. cartage to the bakchouz,2, .and the bread is mlcl at 6d. JPr 2-lb. loaf. In Brisbane the price of tlonr is £12 10s. per ton and bread 5hd. per 2-lb. loaf. EYerv £1 5s. ton is equal to ~d. per 2-lb. lonf. j~ up ~d. in rhartcrs Towers, but flour is up £3 10s.

~With to mo.1t, in nw t cases the price j;1 j.- lo\>:er than :it is iY1 Charters Towers. \Vith good seasons the price of meat should be reduced in Charters Towers. Tlw following are tho comparative prices of mf'1.t ruling in Brisbane and Charters Towers:-

BRISBAXE.

Comn:odity.

Ruinn steak Sirloin steak

JJerf.

Sirloin roast (prime) Corned bed (,Jlvcrside) Corned beef (round) Prim8 rib roa t Chuck rib roast Topcidc Corn<'d bt ~f, bri\,ket (without

b0110) Beef steak Shoulder stod;: Grav be,:::>f Stow{ng :'3tcak Corned ]y:cf, brisket

bone) ~;a. usages Mince

CHART:RS TOWERS.

Commodity .

Rump steak Sirloin steak

IJeef .

Sirloin roas't (3 lb. or Corned beef (c,ilversidc) Corned bee£ (round) Prin1e rib roast Chuck rib roast

(·ccith

oyer)

Price per lb.

s. d. 0 10 0 9 0 8 0 7 0 6 0 5 0 3 0 6

0 5 0 5 0 5 0 4 0 4

0 3~ 0 6 0 4

Price per lb.

s. d. 0 10 010 0 8 0 7 0 7 0 5~ 0 5~ 0 7 Top:3ido

Corned beef, brisket (without 0 6 bono)

L/gs Bee£ steak Shoulder steak Umv.1 bed Stev~'ing· steak (ste\vjng Corned beef, brisket

bone) Salt beef Sausages J),linco

pieces) (with

0 3 0 6 0 6 0 5 0 4

0 4 0 3 0 6 0 3

The above list shows the ev.tro. price per pound charged for the following cuts in

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address ·in Reply. 333

Charters Towers as compared with Bris­bane:-

Sirloin steak I'1·irnt-' rib roast Chuck rib roast ~"Topside

d. 1

Coreed beef, brisket (without bone) ... 1

Beef stc .ck 1 Shoulder stoak 1 Gravy beef . . . ... 1 Corned beef, brisket (with bone) ~

·with ordinary good sca•.ons in the ::'\orth, they 1uld be able to reduce the prices of 1neat

How great a problem is presented by the .cost of .llvi11g is realised \Yhen one studies a housew1fc's bill for a month. I have here particulars of such a bill for a hou-ehold col!sisting of a rnan, his y .. -ife, and .ix chlldren for the mont•h of ;r ulv. The cldcst chile! is Pllder fourteen VCars and the youn e!"t nnclC'r eighteen mo~nths. It \fOrks cut as follov ..

Groceries Meat Vegetables and fruit Butter, ls. 10d. lb. Milk. 4d. pint Bread, 6d. loaf Furl, fire\Yood

Ground, water, and general rate:s

Life insuranc", fi·n2' chi1dren, doctor, and chmnist, accident in­surance, uncrnploy­nlent taxes

£ s. 5 10 2 4 1 13 1 13 1 11 1 7 0 5

A1nusem, nts.

PicturPs, Y>ife and Ilve children, hYice a rnonth

!'J L'wspapers Tobaeco and papers,

pipo

d. 0 6 6 0 0 6 6

£ s. d.

14 5 0

0 0

2 4 9

0 6 0 0 7 4

0 14 11

Total £18 18 0

The man's wage, are £4 18s. 6d. per week. or £?2 3>. 3d. for J nly. eo that ho has a margn1 of £3 5s. 3d. after n1ceting· these payments, but without providinr- for anv clothing for hims(df, his wif~, or hi.s children. 'The- e figures show that the cost of living is hig-her in Charters Towers than in any other city of Queensland, all things considcr0d. The oHlc1al figures for Ch1rtcr~ Tmc ees arc gem rally the highest in the State for cities. 2\.Iilk costs a good deal, but at the ;came tmw I do not think that the milkman can make nnu'1 out of it. Butter is le. lOrl. dcliYcn'cl o.t the door. 14 lb. of potatoes cost ls. 1d. in Brisbane but 1s. 6d. in Charters Tower-,

~\_ good dcnl has hocn said about tobacco. I \Yonld like to infcrn1 hon. rncmbcrs thut ~v1r. F. IIadr1rP1l gre\v an cxpcrirnon~,:d plot 1n 1927 near Charters 1'fJ""~.'· crs. and he received the nut xi •num priee for the leaf. Tobacco has been grown on Harvev Range at Pentland. Others intend to grow "at Robe~t's Creek, Pinnacle, Broughton. and S··llheiu. Mr. Pollock, one of the officials of the Depart­ment of AgricultErc, says thr•t ChHtC'l"S To\Ycrs is a :more favoured localitY for th0 growi"g of tobacco than c-:cn ·:'Iarccba.

Much of the land can be inigatcd irom the Broughton River. There aro fourteen persons already engaged in the grO\';ing of tobacco at tho places I have named with areas of from 3 to 5 acres. People who know nothing about the growing; of tobacco think that the tobacco grower makes easy money. They do not know that for fi vc months out of the twelve he works from twelve to four­teen hours a day. If a man hLs money, he can employ labour; but, if a drought hits him and 'he has to depend upon himself, he has a hard struggle. There is plenty of land which is nm, useless \\·hich could be thrown open _for tobacco growing by the Department of Mmes.

I was in conversation with one of the principals in the sandalwood industrv the other day, and he informed me that" there was a demand for this timber for export to China, India, and San Franci ·co. The cutters receive £12 per ton delivered on rails. Of that sum they pay the Forestry Depart­ment £4 per ton. vVhilst this man \Ht3 at Charters 'rovvcrs, he inspected a vvood \vhich j~ ycry comn1on in that locality, and mGdc an ofi<-r for 20 tons de)iyered on rails. He intends shipping this to China by the same steamer by which he is travclli1.g: and, if he can secure a. connedion. it will he the means of employing some of the men in the district who ftrC at present out of work. On account of the fact that the Bu.rdekin mr·at­works have not operated for the last two yoarf: a number of rncn haYe been thro\vn on the labour market, and during the \Vhole of that, period they have had a wry hard druggle.

If it had not been for the activities of the \"a.i'ions n~ligious bodies, a. number of people in ChartcL; Tov,TPri-, ould have had no sus­ten<ncc at all. I broug-ht bdorc the 11inistcr a letter from the St. i5 aul's Society, and the l\Tlnistor ~c~nt an nrg-0TJt tc1egram in:.,tructing the poJi<::P to do v;·hat the:; could in the int('r€'_ ts of those pcr6ons \vho reqnired assist­ance. r\ nl<lrricd man \YHh t\VO children was v,iyen intermittent work !or one and a-half days per week, and a rnarricd n1rtn vvith four childrc•n "'" , also given one and a-ha.lf days per \vcck. \'.'hat suston. Ece could f·0 ·e men secure b~· \Yorki ng that poriod to enn.blo them to continue their hard work? The l\lin1ster •· as kind onow·h to extend the period to t\vo da) P'-'r week.

I wish to instance a. case of a man suffer­ing frorn n1inens' phthisis. A. periocl-fron1 27th ,January to 5th Augnst-elapsed before the clai1n was futaliscd. Prior to tho arnen d­rncnt of the miners' phthisis section of the bw rebtiuc;- to \Yorker ;' compensation the Insurance Conln1i.-~sio.:Jer ·wa.s allowed to exer­cise discretion a•1d to pay all claims tha.t Y."L~rc in order; but under the present law C'\·cryf!ing- rnnst be brought ri;:-rht up to date. This mr•.n and h- o brothers worked in the san1e rnine. The initials of one 1vero "A" and the other " ,\.C." The number of davs v~ as worked out, and it \Vas fou11d that m;e of ihc rw;; could not claim tho required unmlwt· of d.tvs; but, \vhen thC':y turned to tlL· other brcthcr, they found that ho could claim the reqnircd numhAr of days. The ruiner5' phthisis ~ '"·"tion of tbe \Vorker'2,' Com­pensation Drpartmcnt is oue of t.hc n1ost 11p-to-dato and one of the 1:1ost obliging de­pnr:.mc•,ts. I do nr>t blame the department c-~:her in Charters rro,ycrs or in Bri.:Jbanc for

:•y delay, but I think the regulation's mil!ht be n1ade a little 1nore clastic. '"'

Jh. Wcu:ngton.]

334 Acldrrss in Reply. [ASSE:\IBL Y.] Address in Reply.

The best brains of Australia h tve been devoted to the formation of the Premiers' pl::II~, and I a1n not going to worry m.v brain tr, ing to dig the matter out. I hope that we shall all pull toc:ether, for I believe that, with the aosi tance of 6 i"chcs of rain, Queensland awl Atutralia will come out of the mire.

The SECRETARY FOR PTJBLIC I:-J­STltL:CTIO:~ (l-Ion. R. l\1. KiEg, Louan) [5.32]: I de, ire to acsociate myself with the remarka made by other hon. members with reference to the departure of His Excellency and Lady Good\vin, and to expres~" the regret that the people of Queensland generally feel at their impending departure. Personally I regret it very much indeed; and I want, to pay a tribute to His Excellency for the grea.t in ten ot he has taken in the school children of the State. Ho has made it his business to we as mAny school children as he possibly could in the metropolitan area and wherever he has travelled in Queensland; and I ven~ turc to say that the school children will just as deeply regret the departure of His Excel-le arid Lady Goodwin as the adult people of St •t-c. 1Jc has certainlv rnade a last~ inQ" inlp!'0-,"ion upon them; an'd whatever he s ,jJ. durir,6· the various addre6ses delivered to thcn1 has all been based on the highest irlc•u.ls, ma 1,ing for the best class of citizen­ship.

I wonld also like to a."ociate myself with the rd or~nccs mcldc to the illness of the hon. member for Bcwcn. (Hear, hear!) In com­nlon vvith other hon. UlCinhers I hope very soon to su the hon. member for Bowi'n back in his place in thiD Cha!Libcr enjoying ~ood health. \Ve know that he is a robust party man. but, \Vhatcv0r he is, ho a.t lea'- t js hone ot in his convictions, and we can recog­nise snch a man and have ¥,om-B admjration for hi'n.

I protJose to deal with the comment made b,, the Loader of the Opposition upon some rCrn:n·k::; rr1 'tde by me du:ring a speech cl< EYcrcd at th0 TechniC'al Colleg-e distribu­tion of ccrtific··ic The Lead ~· of the Opposition accused me of makin;; " political , pocch on that occasion.

:\Ir. vV. FoRGAN S}IITII: You know :·ou should not do that when the Gowrnor is present.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC II\­STRuCTlO);: Pardon me, I did not do anything of the kind. The hon. gentlc:nan alco accused rne of making political speeches before school children. At the time he made the accu,ation in this Chamber I objecLd and denied having done so. Tlw hon. member accepted my denial because, I suppo,,e, it \YUS 11,1 rliamcntary procedure to do so, but. when addressing a meeting in the City Hall a few nights rrftenvards, he rq1eat~d the statement that I had pre­vi,,n·,ly denied.

::Yir. \Y. FoRGAN S'IITH: I never mentioned your riumc in the City Hall.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRCCTIOX: I read in tho newspapers that in the course of his cpecch the hon. gentleman accused the Secretary for Public lnstrndion of making political speeches to d10ol children. I did nothing of the kind. I denied the accusation when he made it on the floor of this House, and I have all along denieJ that I have made political "poeches to school children. The Leader of the Opposition the other night said that the Premier or any member of the Government

[ .Jfr. Tf ellington.

"as not g" "1e to engage the City Hall and a,tlclrc .; a public mectin;}: but let n1e dra"\Y his attention to tho fa r that. when the hon. the Pren1icr ro<e to spe:-tk at the luncheon at the Exhibition lfi,st week, he receiYed an ovation which probably surprised the Leader of the Oppo··.it !on "\ ho \Vas present. I venture to sa- dwt. the Premier or unv n1ember of til~ GoYcrnmont could be received with gre:ttcr cnthu_,ia·,.ln at a meeting in the City ]-{all thau exiRt~ d at the meeting addressed there by the Loader of the Opposition quite rcccntl~~. Although I dcni('d having nut~_w a political ~pccd1. tho hon. gc11'~ Tnan said that, •. hl'ther the speech was political or not, I a in the habit of making extra­ordinarv "'caches to e~hool children. I admit that· my little speeches to the school children may be somewhat homely. but at least thcv have as their theme truthfulnes,,, honestv, ~service, Pacrifico, and such subjects, which' perhaps do not appe'll to tht" hon. gentleman, although I can assure hin1 that they appeal to the childl'en. I m1ke bold to ,,av that mv spe,'ches appE' 11 mere to the chihl~en than~ the hon. member's r,ed:>,_utic utterances do to tho o]dcr people. vn1en rr,ddrc.• -ing the -.chool children I haYe neYC'r closcendcrl to the lc";cl of his Government and circulated political and socialistic doe, trincs per medium of the school pap"'rs.

In a clecpcrate pnrade of forced chcc"ful­ne~s the Leader of the Opposition. has endcaY­ourcd to rreatc the imprc~sion that on 1ny \·isits to tl c yarious schools I attempt to clothe mvC'e!f W'ith the irnpor,ance of His 11njc•;ty 'the I<Cing, because l1e said that, \\·hen the children sing " God S:cve the King" I take it as an hononr t.n J11~'~r1f. \V c do net forrret tho tin1o VYben the Duke and Duch<", of York Yisited Brisbftnc. The Letdcr of the Oono~jtion wa: then ~:lcting Pre~nicc·. and bt: ~took good care to get ·witbin l'an~;. of the ca1ncrt1 rrt all times so 'tlwt. when." the Dn1 c :;"J Duchcv of York returned to the old conntrv <md cho, cd the nhotogral)hs to the I{ing ~and Qucf'n. their ~\faj0'tiu would sec th0 hand,,omo Deputy Pror,1icr pc nding there beside the Duke and Duchm,, in full limelicht. (Laughter.) Pf'r· h1ps at the brrc1,< of nis mind was also the thong"ht that, when His Majestv was con, ferring titles. a title might fall his >.·ay. The h'l:t. rrc;,tlcman would lead us to believe that ho doe'J not believe in titles; neverthe, less, at the .some time he no d·-mllt felt that ho was entitled to one.

Mr. PoLLOCK: A real st:,tc ,,man sticks to really big issues.

The SECRETARY FOR PTJBLIC I:-J­STRUCTIOK: I thought thrtt the Leader of the Oppocition was on<' of the big things, notwithsta :Hling that at times the hon. m0m­her may nr,t think w. Members on the GovcrnrrJCrJt benches a,re inclined to think t,hat tho Leader of th.: Opposition is the on1T n1an 1Yorth taking much notice of on th- othce sid0. I '~Nill giYc hinl that mu,'h credit.

Qnito recently the hon. member for Bris­bane. with C'YCL'~' hair of his head bristling ,,.-}th indignatic:Jn, took me t-o task for dis­cncsing a. political subject bcfme His Excel­lenc' . Can ho tell me with whom I discussed it?

Mr. Km''"V;: Yon n ac!P a political speech in the prc~c1rr of the Go,-ernor.

The RT<:CRETARY FOR PUBLIC T:'\, STRTcCTIO);: I did not. All I did was to

Address in Rrply. [18 AUGUST.]

n1akc reference to a big social question \Yhich is occupying the minds of 1CYcry thinking person at the present time. I said nothing vvhatevcr :1bout politics. Then the hon. member for Brisbane attempted to flog me for a breach of etiquette. J'mt fancY that from the hon. mem­ber ! Th~ hon. mcmbc·r might know ~'J1nethi1r,~ <<Lout I"Lc tt.iquc;tc of "Itch~¥ P<trk " ._{ud SOffi(' of the othC'r h:~ tnts i:1 his di·trict, and that infonnation mivht Le use­ful if hP paesed it on to the hen. member for Hnckharnpton. \Yho. in turu, could impart it io of the "clirtv do·.cn" of \Vhom he some time ago:' but I say that the hon. n1cmbcr's lc.;:so~1 on C'Jiauettc arc not acc-eptable to me at the preser{t time.

~\fr. KmWAS: 'Ye IYillleaYe it at that.

'Th· SECRETARY FOE PUBLIC l;'\­STH UCTTON: "-" hav~ !ward a good deLl of tb' n:uch referred to speech that was made. Let mo quote c:actly what I did say, am! I ,Jwll deal later on '·'>'ith some of the rC'llHtrL.; 1nacle bv i hon. member £or Fortitude Valle0. ·This ' . .-hat I did say, as published in thC' .; Courier " o£ 5th June-

.. If nw.tter3 do not irnprO\Te~and I am sin1ply -expressing 1ny own opinion-cir. cumstance.J may rnakc it nccc::.;, ary to smpcud the operation of all awa.rcls for tt lin1ited llPriod, at least until the fin a nee~ readjust thcn1sclves. ''

:\Ir. Mn.L_\:-:: That is politic.!.

The SECRETARY FOE PULLIC IX­STRUCTION: It is nDt political. I am merely 1naking a sJatcment which 1vas safe­g-uarded all through; and, if any person can suggest frorn tho:·e \\·ords that 1 was in favonr of aboli "hing- arbitration awards, then they are irnporting into the -..Yards ;l meaning which cannot roall~ be found there. The hon. 111ernber for Brisbane also said that, when I sa.w this Btatcment m cold print, I immediately rushed round to the press to explain myself.

::11r. \V. FoRGA:-< SmTH: The hmL member for Enoggera \Vas ver} n1uch perturbed about it, and got you to do it.

Tho SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STHUCTION: I did not se~ the hon. mem­ber for Enoggcra 011 the matter. The facts ue these: That statement appeared in all the papers; next morning-, follov, ing- their usual cnstorn, the pnlss roundsn1en earn~ to my office. They referred to this rna.tter, and wanted to kno'Y what it meant. They asked n1e certain q"':J-e:::;6ons, and n1y a ns1ver is as reported in tl1c following- extract from tho " Courier " of 6th J uno-

-" The Acting Premier (Mr. R. l\L King), replying- to a question yesterda:;·, said that no ono was entitled to infef from comments he had made on the previous nig-ht a-t tho distribution of Cen­tml Technica.l Colle-ge prizes that he was adYocating a suspension of all industrial aware! '• in Queensland. Far from it, foe he \:ould be extremelY sorrv to see such a stat(' of thing,~ cotn~ aboUt. The posi­tion was, thomrh. that they did nDt know what was before them. He had, as reported, expressed the perconal .-iow that if matters did not improve circum­stances might make it neceqsd.~·y to sus­P'cnd the operations of all State a,,, ards for a limited period-at least until the finances rca.djusted themBelvc'·· Ho was neither advocating the su .. pension of in­dmtrial awards nor was he desirous of

seeing the disbanding- of any unions of crnpJoycos. :i\o such implications were intc,Gc!crl in nnv of tf_e rcn1arks he had rnado in his ac{dr<:ss."

11oH. IH('rnber.s opposite will find :1 sirnilrtr statcn1ent in the "Da.ilv Standard " and the other rw- 'papers of th"at date. I deny em­phatically the statement made by the hon. member for Brisbane fhat I rushed to the prc,,-, to explain myself. Thoro was nothing to explain.

l\1r. E_r- '.)\:\: You n1ig-ht put that OY(·r

:nnc p0ople, but you c1n't put it oYer Ine.

The SECHETARY FOH. PUBLIC Di­toTRUCTIOX: It is not pos,;iblc to put any­lhing OYer the hon. mcrnber. The Lon. Jncrnber will not listen to facts; and the~0 arc the fa ":ts.

:dr. I(lR\V.\X: It is very strange you haJ to make an explanation the next day.

The SECHE:TARY FOR PUBLIC I."\­~,TEUCTIO.:\: I,Yhat is wrong- with tho"' words? Vvill anv sensible man contend for .a n1orncnt th:~t a~bitration awards are going to stand if the bottom fc Jls out of thiuc:-s in Aui'tralia? Dupposo \Vf' go bankrupt! \Yill an,,- hon. member contend for "mome-nt that thCso <nvards arc going to stancl under t ho;-;e circtunstanccs?

Mr. O'KEEI~: We arc not going bank­nopL

The SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC D;­STRLCTIJ!~: ,,~e urc very near it; and l am not ;c pc"imist. If any hon. member f'tatcs that arbitration a·,yards arc going to r0rnaiu if ~Fe reach that stage, then he is Jelling- the people wmething- he has no right to icll thorn, bc:au~e he is ·withholding the truth.

:\Ir. MnLA:-:: This is' not going- to help the convors1on loan.

The SEC.RETARY FOR PUBLIC IX­STH UCTIO:'\i: The com·crsioH loan is going to help us to get over our difficulty; and no ono is going to say anything against the <·onYcrsion lorcn. If the hon. mpmber will <'o his part and advocJt~ the conYersion loan. then \VC n1ay get son1C\Yhcro. The Premiers' plan has been ag-reed upon by all the States and the Commonwealth of Australia; and tho only part:,- in Australia that is opposing it is the pres'cnt Queensland Opposition. They are the only ones opposing- it; and what alternative are they offering-?

Mr. Mt:LLAN: \A:e are supporting- the con­Yt•rsion loan.

The S!WRET~\RY FOR PUBLIC I:'i'­STRUCTIO::\f: Yes, but you are not sup­rorting the Premiers' plan. The pre,ent Qucen,;land Opposition is the only party in """ !ralia that has raised any objection to the plan.

\Yith regard to the idea that I am opposed to unions, I want to quote something- that "ppoared in the " Teachers' Journal " of 24th July-

" lVIr. King opened the previous' con­f('renco also, and wa·, g-ood enough thon to promise that he would give the u11ion ever', as,jistance in the direction of rnain­taining its membership. He has honoured that prornis'-' unequivocally, and the union feels indebted to him therefor."

In the face of that, can anyone say that 1 am opposed to unionism?

Mr. KIRWAX: That rs testimonial :;fo. 1.

Hon. R. j}J. Kinq.]

336 Addre88 in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Addre88 in Reply.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I~­STRFCTION: Yes, and I am going to give a few more testimonials.

K ow let me refer to the s'peech of the hon. member for Fortitude Valley. I thought the hon. member would be the last man in the House to make· the statements that he £lid mai,_e. Ho allowed his imagination to run riot, and has evidently depended on his imagination for facts. As reported in " Hansard,'' page 214, the hon. member ,said-

" In spite of the further reduction of the basic ''ago to £3 14s. per week, we find the Secretary for Public Instruc­tion announcing at a school function that it is probable that all workers will be removed from the Industrial Court "--

1 never nid anything of the kind. Mr. O'KEEFE: You wanted to put the

wind up the kiddies'.

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC IN­STRUCTION: I shall put the wind up the hon. member before I have done with him.

An 0PPOSI1'IO::-I :MEMBER : You were suffer· ing from windy spasms.

The SECRETARY FOR PFBLIC IN­STRUCTI0::--.1: I think hon. members on the c,ther side suffer from windy spasms pretty cften. The hon. member for Fortitude Vallc:; continued-

" and saying that the court ~as not yet functioned properly."

\Vhete does he get that from? , Mr. WJLSO!i: From the Attorney-General.

The SECHETARY FOR PUBLIC E\­STRUCTION: 'l'he hon. member stated that I said it. I am responsible for what I say, but I am not biking any responsibility for ~tnything anyone else says.

Mr. \'I!LSOX : I said the court had not functioned properly.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I::-J­STRUCTIO)J: The hon. member attributed the remark to me. I am quoting from his c·pocch. Ho continues, still speaking about llJO-

" The hon. gentleman considers that the solution of the present difficulty lies in arranging that all the work?rs shali be compelled to work at a starvatiOn wage . . . For the first time the Govern­ment, through the hon. gentleman, _,vhose \Yords I ha Ye quoted, arc a ttempt1ng to be consie:tent and arc giving exprossio11 to their rc<tl vio\vs in regard to c.,r'Jitr<:t~ tion. The Ir.dustrial Court has alrrady been reduced to a farce, and. seeing that its rulings are 110t <tpplied to the workers, the Go\·Prnmcnt would certainly be consistent in abolishing the court alto­gether."

Th£'n he goes on further-" The Government say that, if a mall

i5 a relief 1\~orkor, he must work for ks~ than the basic rate. and if he is not "' relief w·orkcr he is thr<'·ttcnod bv a prmnjnent ntcntlY'r of tho Governl~1C'nt with removal from the protection of tho Industrial Court."

The word " probable " was not used, nor was the statement, made that "the Court has not yet functioned properly." Further, no throot j·o remove workers from the protec­tion of the Industrial Court has been made

[Hon. R. M. J(ing.

bv anv member of the Government. It cerbir;ly was not made by me.

The hon. member for Fortitude Valley fnrtlwr remarked-

" At no time did the Labour Govern­ment attempt to sacrifice the children, but, on the other hand, the present Government ha •o not considered the cohildrcn in any way."

The imputation is that the pr£'sent Govern­ment h., vo acrificed the children. That is absolutely untrue.

Mr. IVILSo;;: I was referring to scbolar­ships.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC I::-J­STKCCTION: I wili show the position so far as scholarships are concerned. The only detriment the children have suffered with rec;ard to scholarships is in the fact that pcrlutps all of -them could not get the living allowance which had been in vogue before.

An 0PPOS11'ION :i\IE)IBER: It has been decreased.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Ye,, for the individual, but in the aggregat' it has been greatly in­crca~ed. as a great rnanv n1ore parents t.hu.n \Vould ot1H-·r\:rise havC been the case haYe been in Eurh 11 position o'>ving to the depression as hl entitle their chifdren to that allow m• .. e.

In the first pbcc. ,, ha toy er action has been taken by the department has lwen dictated b~y the pre:"·sing aud dire necessity of cur­tailing expenditme. It is no good saying you can spc11d n1oney when you have not got it to C1Joncl; people have to face facb. Things cannot be clone if you cannot pay for them. It is all verv well to run into debt and lP.wing it to .. posterity to pay. Tlnt is what !he Labour Governm<>nt did for flfteen vears. That is where the children ha ye been sacrificed in a different way from the allq;cd sacrifice referred to by the hon. member for Fortitude Vallov. Hon. members opposite hnYe sacrificed· the chil­!lren b:v. causing posterity to have to pay the pubh· debt y,hioh was inc>·cased so much during tho ti1ne thry 1vcre in office. \Ve haYe hacl to curtail cxpenditur<>.

In 1929-30 the appropriation from revenue for cduc>etional purposes was £1,716,200. Of tl]is amount £72.000 wlu set apart for scholarships and allowances to secondary 'Chools. In 1910-31 reductions were made in all sedions of t.ho department amounting to £160,7f8, ancl the amount set apart for •,rholarshins and allowances was reduced from £72.00) to £59,000. Notwithstanding the reductions-I want to emphasise this-no child who has been successful in the scholar· ·J,jp examination has been debarred from rPcoivini; a ,·ccondary education. 1,003 full scholarships having he<'n granted and 1.865 qualifred schclar .hips-a total of 2.868. Not a single child 1vho qualified and who would Le cntj1l0d to all thP priYilcp:e;;; nnd :::t!low­'nces whi, h hav0 hithcrio fHeYailcd is ~dlo'.\~0<.1 to snff()r to :1nv extent so far as -;c·r·oncl.Jry \"ducat-ion i"' ~C'onccrncd. bccau:;:e 1-he hig-h schools arc aYailalJlo. Such a child can go t:) +lnt ::chool and p·ct a Rccondarv cduratiou thcrC', if desired. "

Mr. Mur.LAX: It is all vcrv well for the ehildren who can go to the high schools, but \vhat about the others?

The ST<:C'REL\RY FOR PUBLIC I~­STHUCTIO:N: For the others we ha Ye made

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.) Address z'n fteply. 337

special provision. \Ve allocated a certain number of scholarships for countrv towns, and <\ c ha Ye given a number o( country scholarships, and the hon. member knows that !here arc certain countrv schools which h'LYC high school classes whc~o they can g·et a :o:;('rondary cdue:'l, tion.

2\lr. ',~,~ILSo.,-: You bro-:ght down the allow­ance.

The SECHETAR Y FOR PUBLIC IN­STJ: CCTJOJ\': \Y c brought do1m th "l!ow­a.J:cc': bm we also brought down the tuition fees 1. hich had to be paid at the secondary schools, but the childrEn did not suffer to any cxtt•Jt b.v that.

~l'hc hon. member for ForCtude Valley also •'1Id th•tt the present Gm·crnment had not cc:tsidcJ.·cd tho children i11 any way. That st2.tcnFnt will be found in "Hansard" at ra::e 216.

The Opposition also continuallv la111ent the p1·e ~('nr: Governrne11t's handling of public funds; and I want to give an illustration which will speak for itself, of the Govern: l·1~'1:t's polio~~ in this respect as con1pared with th tt of thee Opposition. I propose to n~~e~· to a pcrsoual n1atior-n1y expenses as a 1VIm1stcr ot the Crown as compared with the 1mmstenal expenses of mv predece,sors. I think every Minister should bring this matter up. From 1st July 1928 to 30th May, 1929, a period of ndt quite eleven months, the ministerial expenses in­em·red by the late Labour Government accounted for £6,693 of the public funds, >Y hereas from 1st July 1929 to 30th Jw~e·. 1930, a ncriod of b~elve ~onths the mi11istt~rial c,_p~nse.s incurred by this Go~·ern­mc'nt only amounted to £3.569. Now I want to compare particularly my own personal expensr·;;, as Secretary for Public \Yorks, 'vith thocc d my prod !CCosor the hon. member for Brisbane, and ~1y expenses as Secretary for Public InstructiOn with those of the hon. nw•nb r for Fortitude Vallcv who was my pr0ch.> -·s::or in that office. ~ ~

D, partm .. nt of Public ::'II r. Kirwan-

Works. £ s. d.

416 17 0 266 15 6

1927-28 1928-29

:Wr. King--1929-30 1930-31

Deprrrtment of Public Mr. Wilson-

1927-28 1928-29

)1r. King-1929-30 1930-31

£683 12 6

4 6 3 2 1 9

£6 8 0

Instruction. £ s. d.

654 6 6 526 19 9

£1,181 6 3

202 15 6 120 1 8

£322 17 2 Summary: Ministerial expenses Depart­

ments of Public Works and Public Instruction-

1927-28 and 1928-29 1929-30 and 1930-31

£ s. d. 1,864 18 9

329 5 2 I ha.ve quoted those figures to show that we have some regard for the conditions of things as they exist, and that we are not prepared to spend money needlessly and

1931-y

selfishly. I say without hesitation that tho Labonr ~viinisters did not stint themselves in any way; and anything that they could obtain in the way of cxpen:5<:s wa~ tnken without regard to the state of tho finances of the country anJ without an:v other cou­sidcration 1vhatever. Yet n1cmbers of the Oppo.· ition have the cffrontcrv to criticise this Government in connocti'an with the n1anngemont of the finances of the State. Tlwir rcn1ad.;:s arnount to ncthing more or lc"s than pure hypocrisy 1:hc 11 ,~,-e take into consideration their own acL. "Actions speaker louder than .,-ords" ; and on our actions we shall he judsT· 1.

The hon. 111PJnbor for ~Iundingburra seems to have a b£'0 • in his bonnet in connec­tion with the opciation:, of the Department of Pnhlic \Yorks with respcc·t to thr con­struction of workers' ho1nr~ and vYorkcrs' dwolliiwe. He ,-oferrod to the sta•,ement in the Go~'ot·uor's Spo"ch that 510 hou''S had been co1npleted dnring the year, and eom­pbined that Townsvill was being badly treated in that new rrpplic.:tt'ons wore not bc-i:-{:s received frorn that rontrc: anrl hr­wanted to knovv~ IYhy. I-Ie appeared to think thd somP boycott was directed against ToiYnsvillc, ncl that the southern portion of 0ur·t~ns1and l\'aS getting und-~'8 preference. That is not cm-rcct. It is quite tmo that applir'ltions - r.o not being recei.-ed from 'I'ov ns·:ill . They ho.ve not been n'2eived frorct that district since last October. The b:une thing appli(" to Southern Queensland a. well. Applintions for "·orkers' homes nnc1 \Yorkers' d\~ ,•lling:J have not been rcc."ivcd from any part of Queensland since November last.

::'.1r. Bow: Why?

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­S1'RCCTION: The Government could not give effect to any additional applications because all the available funds have been absorbed. Evidentlv the hon. member for Mundingburra was 'not aware that applica­tions were not being received from any part of Queensland, otherwise he would not have made his remarks. It is true that 510 houses were completed during the year ended on 30th June last, but evidently the hon. mem­ber for Mundingburra was unaware that these houses were in n"pect of applications received prior to November last. The appli­cations that were then in hand were esti­mated to absorb the whole of the monev at the disposal of the Government for ·the remainder of the financial vear.

Mr. Bm:ccE: The deparh;,ent replied ask­ing applicants to renew their applications later on, and that gave the southern people an opportunity of applying before other people.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: That is not true.

Mi·. BRUCE : That is the reply I get.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: That may be so, but a similar reply is sent to the people in the southern districts too. Applications are received and a certain number granted, hav­ing in view the amount of money to be absorbed. There aro cases where the appli­cant does not desire to go on with his appli­cation, which means that a certain amount of money is still available for these opera­tions. \Ve then say, "Renew your applica­tion later, and we will ascertain how many

Hon. R. M. King.]

338 Address -in R,ply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in R•ply.

applicants do not desire to proc~ed with their applications." As a matter of fact, of the 510 homes referred to in the Governor's Speech, thirty \Yere erected as a result of applications by \Vorkers residing iu To"·ns­ville. The population of Townsville repre­sents 6 per cent. of the total population of the State, so that on a population basis Townsville workers received double the number of homes that thev were entitLd to. The hon. member for lYiu.ndingbnrra simply unearthed a mare's m 'it in this connection. I feel certain that he !llade his rem,rks without due inquiry. He did not do so intentionally, but lack of forethought did not allow hirn to make innuirics before mak­ing the statement. I fpef sure thal, had he been in pc session of the frt.'1'. h, \Yould 11ot have rnude th·~ ;,tatclnPnt.

There are quite a ntunbf'r of nutttcrs [0

-.,ylJjch f dc:_,irl' to refer, bnt lll:V tirr10 is l11nit0d; but t !lcre art' one or t1vo n1attcrs in ronnec·tion -.,;ith the 8ra.tc Ilousing Relief Act to \vhich I will rder. Notice of ,, qu( ~ tjon ,.,,·a, giYPn this afternoon for to-morm· in this conncctio,J, but I have 80llle info1'n1ation \vhich I can g.i \'C the 1-i.:ouse to-njght. The State Ilousing Hclief .Act v.as prc . ..:birne{l last Dec''1nLcr. It \YU':! purposely ch.·1:ilgn('cl to ell .blo pc1 '->.Ons unable to n1eet their rnoni.hly paynwnts throu,7h being rletri­ntcnt lly n fl'ectcd by lLlenlpluyn1cnt or other­wi·e. l--:p to 3nth JunJ la'it rc~if'f h.Ld been granted to 904 applicant~. 398 bPing owners of worker . .;:,' dwellings, 496 of workers' hornes, and tPn borrower.;;; under the !Jir::chargPd Soldiers' Sc!'Clemcnt Acts. All these bor­J"O\\crs were dctrimenbllv affected bv unem­ployuwnt or other causes. In case; where the retluctioa of wages appeare-d to be perma­nent the term of ad, ance wa' considerablv extended-in n1ost cases from twenty tO thirty-fiyo :vcars--<:·J ns to reduce monthly payrncnt'~ us rnurh as possible. 1~1 ca"e~ vvhc-ro the reduction of wa,rcs rnay be tmn­ponr::. or where the' "-PPlicant is on short tirne. rl'lic'f is approYed Uflually for a period of twc'lYe uronths by rnaking the pn.yn1ents as low as poss:blc, but not less than the interest on the outstanding loan. It is intended to rev-iew thFo cases so that, when the applic ·mt L1s rc,mmed full time and is in receipt of a better wa:;e, the adjustment of the monrhlv instalment rna-. be deter­mined at a Slln1 which ho can reasonably be expected lo pay punctLlally and regularly.

Numerous cases o£ unemployed borrowers also haYe been noted for applications for relief to be lodged and considered when their position has improYed, so as to enable them to undertake to make regular pay­ments of a suitable amount. It would be utterly impossible to insist on a fixed pay­ment when the appli<'ant is out of work, because the department knows perfectly well he coul cl not possibly fulfil his engagement. The department is dealing very considerately with all these c"ses, and is not allowing any hardship to be inflicted on the owners of these dwellings.

The other day the Leader of the Opposi· tion, eYidently under the impression that little notice was being taken of him. rushed into print boasting of what the late ·Govern­ment had done in connection with grants to hospit:als and charitable institutions. It is quite true that our Government have not done as much in this respect as the late Government did, but th"t is entirely due to circumstances over which we have no con-

[Hon. R. ll.f. King.

troL The figure::; quoted by the Lend1Jl' of dw Opposition show a reduction of 14 per ~rnt. in grants to charitable in~titution~ .. lG per cent. reduction in the grant for hospllals, and 10 pt•r cent.. reduction in the grant for State children. Those liguru arc quiic' cor­rect; but the Lcadf'r of the Opposition forgoL to mention the outstanding fact that the cost of liYing· has decreased in the period n1en~ tioncd bv 17.7 per Cf'nt., which more than ofLcts th'c decreases o;1 which be has endeCL­vourcd to build his case. All Governrnents in .Australia agreed to a reduction in con­trollable GoYcrnrrF:nt expenditure, including so'"?ial -:-erYices. The Qnccnsland Governrnent are carrving out the plan. as far cs they pO'·c~ibly 'can. It must be realised that we c..~~nnot continue to live at the sa.n1e rate as \Yhon exportable products were realising 50 per cent. more than they are now, and Aus­tralia v; as a hle to borrow £30,00J.OOO per annum ham abro ·d.

The Labour Partv claims credit for having built up many things, but hon. members opposite who sLtpport that party forget to mention that they built up the rmrliament­ary salary from £300 to. £750 per annun;. Thcv also built up somcthmg else. when thell' :Min-isters drew £2 2s. per day in addition to expenses.

J\Ic. Bm:cE: ViTc never built Mr. :YicGill up.

The SECRETARY FOR PUBLIC IN­STRUCTION: Mr. ~vfcGill has built himself up, and the hon. member might ask the hon. member for \V arrego for confirmation of that.

During fourteen years of Labour Govern­ment the expenditure from revenue increased at an average rate of £693,053 per annum. Whilst all previous Governments had incurred a public debt of £56,000,000 m fifty-six years, the Labour Government increased the public debt to £112,000,000 m fourteen years, which is almost double the amount of the public tlebt undec· prevwus Governments. Further, the Labour Govern­ment lost £5,000,000 in useless State enter­prises. Had that amount been available now, the return, if invested at 6 per cenL interest, would have provided employment for 1,500 men yearly.

Mr. SPEAKEH: Order 1 The hon. nwm· ber has exhausted the time allo. ed him under the Standing Orders.

Mr. KENNY (Cook) [7.12]: In supporting the motion now before the House I desire at the outset to offer my congratulations to the mover and the seconder. I did not have the pleasure of hearing their addresses, but, after reading their speeches in " Hansard," I offer my congratulations to them on their good effort.

I was disappointed to learn from the Governor's Speech that this year will see the termination of His Excellency's office in Queensland, and I desire to express my regret at the impending departure of His Excellency, who during his term of office has done his utmost to make himself familiar with the requirements of the State. He has visited nearly every outlying portion of Queensland, and has endeared himself to the people generally. But, whilst we as Queens­landers may lose him as Governor of the State, I feel sure that the State will benefit when His Excellency returns to Great Britain, because we shall then have another

Address in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 330

ambae-,ador on the other side of the world­" very necessary thing to-day.

There are several measures listed for atten· tion this session. One realises that a num­ber of those measures are very necessary and will be for the benefit of Queensland, but w·e also realiee that there are manv other cnactments which will bo necessary, because the position so far as Queensland and Aus­tralia generally is concerned is altering daily, and what may be applicable to-day will not be so to-morro'i\, therefore legislation may have io be brought down to meet the position as the necessity arises.

During this debate much has been said on both sides about the reconstruction of industrv. I feel that the States of the Commo'm.-ealth are very much handicapped by the Federal Government and by the Loan Council. It must be admitted that tho Queensland Government have <lone very good work during their term of office. That is not only recognised by the majority of the people of Queensland, bnt it is also recog­nised by the people of the other States of the Commonwealth_

:\Ir. O'KEEFE: That is \Yhy you have taken names off the rolls.

Mr. KENNY: \Yhcn you fine! a person l'ising fron1 the dctd after being buried eight yrars and "."ot:ng at an election, it is YCry nee( ~sar-,- to t-lke his n t111C 01l- the roll. The' Qul'cnsland GoYr>rnmc11t have done very good ',:ark fer Queeusland.

Some of car opponents have endeavoured to make politic"l capital because of the fact 1 hat 'ome of the measuree adopted by the CaYerr.lment have been unpopular with ~ome ~rctio' ~ of the con1rnunitv; but thev forget that it j' the rlutv of £h,~ Govcrn~nent to govern "'ith a Yic\v to cbing- jcutice to llll ~ccticns of the cornmuuity. rrhc GoYcnnnent 1nnst lc.-)k r.ficr Quc":nslanJ as a whole, and not aftt:r onl' ~J'ction oul:·, 1vhich \vas the policy adopted b;' the L11bour I'arty when in control of the State. \'<-c, as a State, are jJ::nc~lisr:d by the FcJcrul GovcrnnH.mt and by the Le-, n Council. \Vo kno ,/ quite well that thJ tariff policy of the i-edcral Go\~r'rnn1eut

l-:c ltr :c•d, as it is operating- to the of industr,y in Queenslaad.

1\Ir. 0' KEEFE: To northern timbers.

:llr. Kl•~:\:\Y: It is operating to the detri­Jncnt of pri1nary indu"tr:v in Queensland, and it is oper. ting also to the detriment of the whole of c;ueensland. No matter what action the State Goy-ernrr1ent n1ay take, while the Federal Lo bour Party arc in control of the F<.doral Gorcrnment they can counteract the effect of our legislation. \Ye have had ]Wcof of that right along the line. We know tlmt the Queensland Government have att 0 mpled to rednce the cost of living in this State; but as fast as those attempts are made t h, Federal Government nullify those attempts and incre~se the cost of living. To-day we lmve to pay 6d. in the £1 on everything we eat and on everything we wear in order to Bwell the revenue of the Federal Government to cnahle them to carry on. We know quite well that the Federal Government a,nd State Governments also are increasing taxation each year.

An 0PPOSITIOX ME}JBER: So is Queensland.

Mr. KENNY: I shall deal with Queens­land and with the increase in taxation before I sit down; but I say the Federal Govern­ment are increasing taxation each year and

the:~ Ul'C usurping Stat-: rights throughout -~uotralia. \,\' c know the State field of taxa­tion has been enli-'red b" the Federal Govern­ment. 'TheJ should uot have imposed a land lax at a.ll; and the snper incotne tax i1nposod by the Federal Govel'nr::1cnt was a ridiculous titx for any GoY()rnmcHt to bring for·vvard, and it is operating \'Cry detrimentally to the ,-;-hol~_ of Australia. If tlw Federal Govern­ment continue to encroach on the field of State taxation and continue to usurp Sta.te rights, it is going !o be a bad thing for Cner>nsland and for cYerv State in _4-.nstralia. 'i'hn Federal income ta·~ has been increased ( !,eh YL'ar; and I ::honld like to quote a fe1v fin•rcs dealiug ,-ith tFxation from 1920 to 1930 to slJOw h(nv taxatio11 has been incrc,ased Lv all the Siatc>S of the Commonwealth. During those ten ~-ens taxation \Vas increased as follm

:'\ew South \Yalcs '• ictori"1 Queensland South .L\ustralja. \Ycstern .. ).~_u:.,tralia Tasn1anja

Increase.

Per cent. 205 127

43 151 115

C-.

Incrca,c per capita.

Per cent. 151 92 13

108 70 76

Queensland, in the analy_<is of thosp ten years' ...lgures, appe 1.:: to L in a vcrs favour­able condition. \Vhcn '·' P analyse the posi­tion froru tho period when the Labour Party took office in 1915 and compare it with the position in 1930 we find that bxation in Qneenslitlld has been increased by 403 per cent. and a per capita iucrease of 266 per cent.

'J<lr. BRT;CE: Those figures are a bit rough.

~lr. 1\:E::'-J.'iY: The hon. member sayo thos0 figures are a bit rough, but they hc.nJ lH~cn supplied to rue by the Bur,_,'tn oi Econornics All the t;t.ates ·during the la~t tPn year6 haYe incrcFo:cd their taxat:on on lho D_ \ 7 erago by 134 ]JBi' cent. and 93 llPr CCllt.

per capita. Again, all the States have increased their

la.xa+ion during those fifteen years by 383 per cent., or an aycragc of 274 per cent, per capita. When we realise that the whole of the State' of the Commonwealth ha\'C in­c ~ ascd taxation ll:~ nearly 400 per crnt. daring fifteen years, and also that the i11como of Au:'itralia has Lecn reduced during tht} last :·ear by approximately £2r,o,roo,ooo. and further reaiio;c that the pcoplP who arc <~ru­ing th:1t reduced income are called upon to bercr a heavier burden of taxation, v·e won­der whore wo are going.

).Ir. 0' J(EE:'E: Your Govcrnn1cnt are in power.

l\1r. KE:-;-NY: The hon, member inter-1ccts that our Goverurnent are in po\ver. J-Ie forgets that we have a Labour Govern­ment in the Federal Parliament. \Ye have a Labour Government in New 8outh '\\'alos to-day, who are crippling the credit of Aus­tralia "t the present time; bnt I will deal with that later in my remarks.

In m:· opinion, taxation has gone as high as it can go, and is defeating its own ends. Industry cannot carry the burden of taxation put upon it, and unemployment is increasing throughout the Commonwe;dth, and naturally our national income is declin­ing, I cannot see how, with the national income declining as it is to-day, the Trea­surer of Queensland can forecast an estimat.l'

111r. Kenny.]

340 Address in Rrply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

for taxation receipts' during th0 coming ~-ear. I further real·iso that, \vith unem­ployment increasing, \YC a re not going to get oYer our difficultie'3, and \VO n1ust bring about a rNluction of unemployment to relieve the position in order to get out of our difficulties.

I have read tlw speeches of hon. members opposite, und I have not seen anything in thern o£ a con:.tructiYc nature. We need further· money in Queensland, or further credit to relieve the position. We realise that there is 110 more n1oney obtainablu from revenue or hom the Loan Fund for the development of the State. That money has been abc,orbed. The people of Queens­land realisC'd when they put this' Govern­ment into office that the Labour Government had gone as far as they could go. They realised that the Labour Government had ruined Queensland, and they gave charge of the affairs of the State to our party to r nll the Ste,te out of the mud. Our revenue is absorlw:! in paying interest on our public dcht and payment of the public service. Loan funds are not available through lack of confidence in Au·.tralia. There was onlv one other M'enue available to develoi1 QnccnsJand, and that \vas private enterprise. I r.oali•.o that the position remains' for the bouks to finance the Government.

::\~r. Bow : They will not do it.

i\lr. KEJ'\NY : 'When Governments m Queensland have deficits, the banks have to provide for those deficits. vVhile thev are providing for those deficits thev must call up advances that have been made to private enterprise, with the result that as fast as they call up those advances they restrict the ropit.·d available for the development of this State; so that, so long as the Governments of Australia wili not face the position and keep their expenditure within their revenue, so long will the banks be 11nable to mak0 money available for the development of Australia.

In my opinion the Loan Council is not functioning to the benefit of Australia. Last year, in Queensland, we spent £1,500,000 on the relief of unemployment, and the position of the unemployed was much better than theil' position before we took office, for then no provision was made for thPm. This year it wiil cost Australia approximately £18,000,000 to provide fot· the relief of unem­ployment, because, if you reckon the unem­ployed throug·hout Australia at 300,000, and it cost Queensland £1,500.000 last year to rciicve the unempioyed within her borders, it will cost Attstralia as a whole about twelve ti1nes that ~un1 this vcar. It does not seem to b,, a sonnd polic,v that, in order to relieve the nnr,nploycd, Queensland should spend £1,500,":00 a year on works which i,l a nurnbDr of jnstance3 are unproductive, no-r that Australia ohould spend £18,000,000 ou similar worka when that money would pro­vide interest and redemption on a very large amount of loan money. If that loan money were spent soundly and on development works which would be reproductive, we could absorb a greater population, and so increase our national income and, with the increased population to share our b,urdens, we could reduce the burden of income taxation on the people and so naturally reduce our unem­ployment. I maintain that we in Queens­land in particnlar cannot afford to stand still ; but, if things continue as they are going, and if the unemployed position gets no better, and if the State and Common-

[iMr.Kenny.

wealtlt CoYcrrnncnt.s ha vc deficit· after deficit [lnd v:ill n•Jt f;:_tcP the facts, I cannot soP how

, \\'ith her present population, will rtble to liquidate the debt she o\vcs out­

side. .JlL l;O\\': ~~OU cdC' not a fi_lUllCial export.

:\Ir. KEXXY: If l '"ere ac good a flnan­ci<'l cxncrt .s the hon. mon1ber. I v,ould lH~Yer iet up ia n1y plaC'c in this fiousc. The I.Gtn Co'1nc!l and the Pn_ ... rniers' Con­fc:r~~nr-e 11<f:sctl r(~-1olutions with a vic",v to ~tabili!'l"ng the financial cor:dition of ~Aus­tralia, but the l'rcrni·cr of ::'\few South Wal<>·; has continuallv defied the Loan Council. Th0 \vholf~ of~ the other States are lT<dlv to-chy po ying his debts for him. He is co1;. tiuual1y 8quanchri11g all the n1oney he can lay his hancl~ on, and. vvhile he is doing it. h0 i~ ~clliHg the credit of Australia.

"3.Ir. Coo.P1"R: ·y on can squander money only oncC'.

::\h-, KENXY: You can squander mono,v onlY 011c0. as the hon. n1n1nber savs. and as the' peorlc who h:J.Ye had their moiwy in the SaYi!Lg.' Bank of New South \Vales have <'ause to know, for that is why the Savings Bank had to close its doors, J\.Ir. Lang ha-; heen ruining t.he credit of Australi~L and, under i' s Constitntion. tbe Loan Council cloP'i not seem to have any power to stop hin1. I 'vant to know ho\v long -..ve ar~ going to let :VIr. Lang continue on such course::;. lie could neYer haYe seen his way tb1·ough if he had not been kept going by the Loan Council or the Federal Govern­ment, The Loan Conncil is supposed to fundion fOl' the good of Austraiia, but in deYPloping my argument in that respect I \\ant. to dravv attention to incrc:ases in the Y!ational debt for the vear ended on 30th ,June last, The<e figures represent the i·ccreasc in the public d0bt for the year ended ~Gth June, 1931-

]\' "'" South \V ales Victoria South Australia. '.V cstern Au~tralia Tasn1ania Queensland ...

£ 17,200.708 10,238,796 6,108,326 5.369,326

676.905 82,211

During that period Queensland increased its public clebt by only £82,211, whilst at the same tinw New South \Vales increased its public debt by over £17,000,000. In addi­tion, Mr. Lang is indebted to the Common­wealth Government for £4,000,000 reprt>sent­ing interest paid by the Commonwealth Go­vernment on behalf of New South \Vales; and he also requires millions of pounds to meet his financial obligations during the next few months.

Queensland has recognised the position, and is endc·avouring to arrive at a solution in the best interests of Australia as a whole. \Ve have attempted to face the situation. although it means hardship to a number of people and a lesser sum of money available for distribution by the Agricultural Bank. \Ye have endeavoured to do the right thing, whilst other States have been squandering their money. I am hopeful that an increased vote will be granted for the Agricultural Bank even though we may not reach budget equilibrium during the ensuing year. Queensland has endeavoured to meet the situation, and sufficient money has not been available for the development of the State. If the Loan Council cannot control the Go­vernment of New South vVales or the Federal

Addregs zn RepZy. [18 AUGUST.] AddTess in Reply. 3-il

Gov ,·nmcnt. then it is time the Loan Coun­cil was disbanded and that Queensland took control of its own affairs.

I mentioned previously that the heavy burden of taxation is defeating its own ends at the present time, but that is a•1 effect that may not be altog·ethcr to the dctrimert of Queenslar;d eventually. The drift of the population fro·11 the countrv to the cities which prevailed in the past· will now auto­llHl.tically ccP,,P, and the population 'vill commence lo flow back to the country from the city. To-duy atnbitious indiYiduals aro lcavinr{ the citi<~", for th~ country, and "\Ye

should n1a~d~ preparation in the countrv for the absorption of that population o;, its arrival. That will Ieot be possible if the Pcdf~rnl Gon:-rnrnc:1t and the New Sout11

\Vales Goyernnwnt contiEne to pile up deficits at the same rate as ht ·etc:orc, and whil~t \Vi_~' are prevented frorn obtaining nc'v 1110lll'~Y for dcYelop __ wilt-tl rnu·po',cs. If those

had faced the position in the lf0nsl nd h.:s done, the position

'-:cry IJ:I"'vlch in1provcd and, if thev had uot j lf'rPa- eel their to th'G extent thev h,JYC d;ne. the nosit!on would hn·n~ brcn vCrv ruuch ca~i~r and Qnec __ :;;;1and ,-..,~ould hnvc · 1JePn n.ble to balanco its budget. Tn the interest of ,:\u::-tralian r-·cdit th0 Fcdc•r·al Government and the New South "';;'/ale·, Go\·crninent should Le COlTI-

pelled to t 11c c'\:istiug da!H_ f"l'cus position ; but c:PJnot b0 a'"·hievcd -unlt:ss t·hc Lo;:!n Council taki;;.; th0 nl •ps.;;.;ar\· action. I cdnnot sec ho\'\T thP Ff•df'ral Go\:c-rnrnPnt wjll be able to balance tho1r budget unless rhoir r );o.;.ts of arhni .i'3tr::ttion arc rocl,,cod. The co't of f, d ntinn to-cl v is much too hir.rh. It- \Yas !1Cv£r int LJer( that it r hou]d co~t th_, Pxtraorc1inari1y high figuJ'(' tb:::~t it rcprc , t') at the prPsent tin1e. \Ye !{now +~1ai: fcd"ration l1:1s in thn c~tabli~h-mcDt of l:mgC' thn.t arc having '' cr;pr11ng on inrhl-~tr.~ throughout tho

inst0-:tcl of bclng a benefit. P\'"ltion, whieh io: tho out­

tlw po1ic;.7 of t1--tosc GoYf.'l'llincnts, then \ e should C'0'1~id0r v:} •th"r nnt abolish tl1~ F~·dcnJl Gnvcr;~~

nv:~nt ~- !ld rstrrhli. h a ne".~.r Sta10 in ~~orth 0ncl'n:::lnnd it11 (I P .. r1ja:1H'llt. 'That \ ou1d be a big in th0 c~f'Yelop-lnr>nt of t0f' f:c:1_' Nortl1, nr:d '.Ynuld r('qniro the \·rr-.--. < '.rrfn] ennsidPr ,~tion of th,, 11' {_ph'. The pr-oplo of Au~·tr arf' now ;·. 111:::.-ir~g-thut fcd('r1tion i_, tr-o tnurh. \YC hear rnEtinnal crlhci~m of the co3t of go·,rrrn­m~nt in Au~trall=t; hut. \Yhor~ '·'- ,, an:1.lvso thor::') co~t-::, \Y(• find tlrlt EH· FcdcTaJ non'l'n-1l1('I:t ha Ye bf ··'n l., rgel:v- r-.- •q:JO!Jsible for the incr('8i"P, and tLnt of bte it b -l-. :dTcr tee: OL!l' position in Queensland.

I hnYl' sb:lted Jlr0Yiou<ly action is being 1·'1Lc.J in the Cclnil:On\'~:t to rC'duce co---;ts in ordc_•_' th • t- o-:.n' prin1ary prorhH'~.-.;

tr• on the wo;]J's InBrkC'b. The to.dny i~ about £3 9s.

the' C'Cchailg-<' rat of cr'nt. i.:; b1.kcn jc;o con~lderatlm!, that

~.•::'_g_ i~ f'quiy.·!cnt to £2 2s·. pPr \ ('r'1: ovPr-SC'n- I m of opinion that a basic '"'1ge of 2.o:. Df'r '' f'<'k is as }o,-..,r a'< ,\.8 can g:-o Au~b~R lin to-rlny 'vith saft.>tT¥. ·\Yhen \Y0 tn 1k of fhe world':-; 1narkc:t .... I U!l1 cJrn­pdled (o ref0r to 1hc policy of th- Labonr Part ?nd Labour CnYcrnnicut-· \V{' kno· .. -perfcctly \ ell tJ1nt 1\lr. Lanr:-, Prcn1icr of ?\c ,,, South \Ve.le,, is to-clay attt'mpting to put the 1_r1lic:: of L1,bour ir..to effect. He

has talked of and attempted to curry out a policy of repudiation. That polio:-· has tesultcd in the clos'urc of the doo1·s of the New South \Yalca Govornmont Saving,, Bank. The people of New South Wales who en­trusted their s:tvings to that ban!=: rcali3o to-day how insecure is the police: of Labour. Yet we ha;-e the leaders of Labour through­out A l!Stralia nttempting to console ::\Jr. Lang, and at the same time saying that they cannot agree with him. I am not r-<ttisfiecl with their protests. Mr. Lang is only carry­ing out e portion of the policy to which Labour is' committed. The Leader of the Opposition has stated that his part_ does not agree with the policy of Mr. Lang; but we n1ust ren1t''_;Jber that, although he hi1nsclf did not go to assisl Mr. Lang to be re­turned at the last election, he sent his Deputy Le ,.,cl er and a few other stalwarts of his party down to assist him.

Mr. O'KEEFE: The~· did good '"oek.

Mr. KENNY: They were quite proud of their work when the~- returned; but nov· that they see the result of th<··ir policy, they 8 n: ,,ttempting to disO\Yn hin1. \Yhen ::Yir. Lang carne to c.)ucendancl. he could 110t even f!et a handshake from them 1-rith n "\Yell done, 11r. Lang !" In effect., they said, "Gc away 1 \1

t7 c don~t v•:ant :vou l;' ThP. yery

11lCinbers '' ho I( nt him their sup:1Jrt and "ho rnnst hnYc known what the eitect of his policy w.:-uld be were not there to Yel­cornc TIJr. Lane"' on hig arrival in BrisbJJle. \Ye all know how the Dcputv Lcac!,'r of th<' Op}l03ition statod on the 'floOr of this l--Jonsc 1hat. if the Opposition had thr pmYcr to do ~·o, thev \Yould haYc rcclured the b·~rdcn o.r inh'~~~",t payn1cnt'", to ;:til. Th1.t ~? bon. y<,, hen ho!1. n1en1ocrs opposite r pud-in tion. 1t makes me thlak of t1L' posi­tion in ~orth Qneen;L nd. The hon. 1118ll1-bcr for Cairns int0rj( ~ted that, "'.Yhcn they went to :'\cw So nth \Vale,, did g-c .Jrl w0rk and 11ut thclr n1an in: it \Y:t:-> that :tnan vrho ad,·ocnted rcpu_diotlon. <tnd v ho not onh· kil10d the crccl:t of hi~ owr1 State. hut prejudicially a!Iect?d tht' ccedit of Austra1ia. No on0 take" thr,. DPpnty Leader of the Opposition seriously. If the hon. nleinber for I-I .,1·brrt CYLr }n~ ohjectl;-, -t-11e ):\ ca<tFC'l'ship of Stat,,-then the p~"'oplc of i\u~tralia V.'ill wondc•r. and aP.:~J "\Vhcn~ did thi·-_. man h·orn '?" And I am 50rry to say that we , haYC to rcph·. ""'forth Queensland," It dl ccr­' ·tinl:~ be a rcflc .tlon on that 11art of thL' State if oYer tl--: hon. n1cn1bcr, \Yho so op0nl:v favours rcpncliation, achjcyeJ his arnbition.

Let us follow this police· of the Labour Party further. Take the position of Russia, where the objective is in operation to-day. Russia had repudiation, and her c>:eclits wore lost. After gra;-e loss of life thronghout the conntry, the Rusjan IYOrkcr~ haYn b::-cn reduced to slaYe conditions. \\'Jwat has been ,_ommandeercd from the protluccn and rhnnped upon the 1nnrk2ts of th0 ,yoJ'ld, ''hilc the Russian people are forming queues in order to get a loaf of bread, The same position applies to butter, for which t[,e people are charged £1 per lb. in Moscow. \Yhil~.t h1:~~e quantitic'" of Russian lntttf'r ·1:\1'8

dumped on the markets of the wn:·ld o I lo>Y priceq. Further, timber \YhiC'h has l1~cn cut with forced labour is dumped on the rnarkots of the world. At th0 !1l'C""nt i 1IJJe there is ·ono sh}I1m('nt of R.ussian tirnb01' in Australia. It has not h2on sold y. t, but iho

Jlr.Kcnn!r.-1

342 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Russians are endeavouring to place their timber, produced under such wretched con­ditione, on the Australian marlwt Theit· policy can only mean cnppling ou·· market, and incidentally injuring the position of ihc 1vorket'r:> of this country. The Russians have their five-year plan by which they aim so to dump their produce on the markets Df the world as to g·et back the credits which h ·, vc been lost to them. \Vhy the need for dumping? Only to retrieve the credits lost throuc;h repudiation. I ask hon. members oppo 1te in all sincerity if they wish Aus-1 ralian workers to come down to the srtme corditio1 ~ as the Russian vrorkers, "\i\o,ho are ~.Yorking under conditions which i1nply forced lnbonr.

:\Ir. PEARE: Look at the conditions vou hrr Ye got down to here ! ~

::\lr. KENNY: The Labour leaders in \ust1:alia re1Jise that the Labour Party i­

beinc: smashed, and that t!wy have no forces, their cause has been lost. All that the per,,onal am'Jition of the leaders

of Yarious sections of t_hat. party. and those ~cadf:-rc:. are endE:a,7 ounng to play on the 1gnonwce of the people. They roali'oG that a rc'rt< in section of t1Je people 1nust haYc part:v fnith clrillcd into them at all time2,

nd 1 i1cv know aL"'o that a considerable nurn­ber of p~- ople do not r0ad a ncv,,:-paper. EYen in rcgrtn_l to the nun1be._· of people who do not l'O" cl th~ ne1r•papcrs. the Labour Partv has ro:F('riptccl tl1e work12rs for the puqJOse of B'ljlplying fnnd.s to the "\Vorkcr" and the "Daily Standard "-so,callecl educa­tional journak One need onl:v read thos<'

tn roaliso the tvpe of education that i,nptcrtod through their columns. I roaliee

Cw_ t tn-clay the 11r0ss is a big factor in lnov.Jcling public opi::1ion. Anyon'e \vho reads

"Standard" nnd the "VVorker" mu.st in what direction the people who

ihosc papers J.rc bring educated. oll lJC 'wlf of X Ol'th Qn. ,'nsland I \\Oulcl

like• to my H!lprecin tion to tllf' Prc-Jnier for action in rcgan1 to the Ban· on Falh ::wh'2me. Th- 1- schCn1e has huno· fire for a long time. The Labour Partv ~ade qui1 P <1 lot of prop:-1 gandn, 011t of it {n years gollc by: bnt to-d<-t~ '"-- urc nroud th -:tour Pr~~1ni0r has n1a.de tl1e n1onev nxailablc so r hn r a re assu reel of the ' scheme going 1'ight

I nlso ,,-;- h to express onr apprr>ciation of the appointment of the Ro, al Commiceimt on the development of Nortl1 Queensland.

:\ir. O'KEEFE: i\lore v ate of good mone.:·!

all. North Quecns-be<;n for some =-Tears; bvt

look for pro;:;n:ss in thA North. For , -o have _l~PCll advoca t!ng the needs

QueeLc,laJ!fl and the dc•'elopment of thr1t -p(JJ'tion of the S~·lt ;. The Prcn1lcr and th0 G-o~ :-rn1 ~cnt havo realised that there is :->o:::ct hing 1n onr ( )ntr_-r:tion. and thcv ha-re appolnt0d that Tio:·<~1 Cornn1ission to i"nqnirc as to the hest methods of cl0veloping ~orth nuec·nshnd. \;'\.-c haYc large natural rf'sourcc; i•t the :\forth. a.nd I cure that. ',d1en the C'ommis,sion hands in report. it, \Yill be found that tlw appointment of the Commis-~lOJJ jnsZifil'd. I ~,rn nlso of the opinion th Lt appointnH-nt of a cornmitt0c to lDOu1rc the forestry llolicy of Queenl'31and ·,yil! h' jr;sr:fied in the criticisms that have been levelled at the administration of the Fu;·cs+r:v Board for some time. Hmyever. that is another f1UC'tion. and I do not intend to clca.l T. ith it just now.

. JCenny.

Tho pastoral industry in the Gulf countn' is of vital importance to North Queensland. and there is an urgent necessity for relief being granted to the pastoralists there. The Labour Government closed the railway line which enabled the pastoralists in the Gulf country to get their cattle tD the market; and sir "G that railv av has been closed no relief has l;ecn given 'to the pastoralists by 11 ay of a reduction in rents. I realise the nosition of the Government and also the clif­flcultv of securing loan rr1oney for recondi­tioning this lino; hut I urge the Government to look into the position and see if something cannot be clone. The Secretary for Railways has promi.,cd a lOO-horsepower rail motor for that line. Ho would be justified in stretching a point and repairing the line so that the pa ~orali ,ts would lu;Ye ail opportnr.ity of ,ending their cattle to market. If that railway cannot be repaired, then the Pocrc­t HY for Public Lands wust 'crioucly con­sider the question of reducing the re·1ts of the p .. · tnral areas in that distrid. Small cattlP holder." cannot even take ad·vantage of the local but_;b--.rs' rnarket. as 1t d ~cs not P"" to sord .mall lots of cattle to that market. \Ye h:.Yc hacl a ycry dry season in that por­tion of Queensland, and one pastoral1st "\Yho sL rtcd o!f YYith 250 head of cattle lost son''Jt\',fi,·o head bec"usc of the lack of '"'-"ater.c and on top o-£ that no buyers hnYc

into the Gnlf district this year. A c, a the c ,dtle grov. crs ,v-ill h3xe to hold

rllttlf'. ?\Tf1xt Vf~Ar those arens v:ill be OY(-'r~tockcd. and th8re \vill be further lossr~.;. Tl:0r0 i:-:, thereforn. need for Yery serious consideration of tho position of the cattle imludr'' in the Gulf country.

\\T e know quite well that the large com, panics haYc stations in the South, and arc able to take their cattle clmYn by boat and k ,'!1 them there. but that position does nut- ari~,e so far 'as the ~mall man is con­('CJ'l1ocl. nnd he has to hold his stock there, and to,dav the prices of bullocks in the Gulf countn- rano·c from £2 10s. to £3 10s. That ~T-~tto 0£ lhir~s cannot go on. If it continues, ihcn a nunibcr of 1nen IYho are holding rho', areas to-clay will have to forfeit them "nd leave their holdings. I would ask the Sccrdarv for l'nhlic Lands to give con· c idPration to the position of the lessees in ,:11at area ·,:ith a view to relieving the po,,, 1 ioll at the earliest opportunity.

Thoro \Yas another matter I intended to de-al vdth, bnt~ as my tirne is just abo~t up, I shall kaYe that for another occasiOn.

Th 0 PRE1\JIER (Hon. A. E. Moore. ,btbir;ny) [7.52]: I want to join with other hon. 1ncrnbrrs in expressing my regret th~t the tDrm of }Jj< Exc'llency the Governor IS

dr,:wing to a close. I do not think ':·c hayc ever had a Go1·ernor who has earned out his dutic) n1oro con:~,;icntiously and with lf'"'s rPC' rd to the physinl strain upon himself 1h~n the prucnt GoYernor. (Hear, hear!) He has also taken a great interest in the activities of the people all over Queensland.

• 'C can qnite safely say that ~e will the State with the satisfactiOn of

Ying given encourage1nent to everybody •fl offcncr to none. I ;;stoned very carefully to the speech of

1 he Leader of the Opposition, and I also li,-tcnecl not quite s"J carefully to that of the Deputy Leader of the Opposition. (Laughter.) I thought we might have got some propmals from the Le8der of the Oppo­'ition. or something W'hich would have been

[18 AUGL:ST.] Address in Reply. 343

of benefit m the times we are passing through. Practically the only thing I could gain from his speech was that everything the Government were doing was wrong, that everything they had done was wrong, and !hat everything every Government in Aus­tralia was doing was wrong, too. HQ did n'lt ~pecifically mention the other-. but all tlw otlwn were entirely on a wrong track.

I-1 i~ 1nain suggestion for getting out of Olll' clifficulties was that there should be a fidncim·J note i·~uc. I suppocc tho Leader of ! lw Opposition felt that he had got in behind 1\Lr. Theodore \vhen this was first brought forward, and lw did not quite see how tn ~-:et ont of it. He did not have the CO'clta,E:·~ to redf'eln tho mistake hP 1nade a Mr. Th0odorc did, but thought he had boltcr stick to it. W'hat is the position to-cin \Vo know that it is not deflation that is the trouble to-dav. Our exchange positinn sho'' that inflation is the trouble, and ·,! rea'on of the inflation is that u·ery

in .\ustralio_ for the last two years has t~,en calling upon the

inetitntions and the public to make bet,n:~en their revenue and long as the GoYernn1ent.-;

goin"' i_o do that, so long n~ thev arC' on continnal]v YvTith inflation ill our

note i>·ilC nnd deflation in our credit so that it ~'lllnot ~o to the pcop1c \Vho ought 1o haY~: It-tho e who ar0 carryin~ on indn;-;­try~bnt is going to thr- Gon~rnment,- to nwl~c up the dC'fif:1encies in thc1r rrYcnucs, there en n be no hop of 1·ighting the posi­tlml. It rnnst. be rC'C'Op,-lli~,~d b:v f:VCr""',~one now thd the position mLtst be faced. ·

Thl' Lender of the Opposition said that the udhorl financiers have adopter! from tin1c ]r;;nJcmorial during periods of cri~es­

rcductioa-hacl alwnvs fililcd. and r-ontinnc to faiL 'I1h,: only rca.son

this mdhorl has been adoptee] is that 110t. fa11C'cl. RY0ry other nlethod lYhich

h f'n tried in timCs of depression, ~urh a~ prinTing note~ and endeavouring to inflate ,,,. en :t0 cr·'dit ha> a!n·a·: 3 failed. It is the Yer:· n 'son that the n,;c ,rrfc method by 1 lllvh \W curta.Jl ex] •encllhH'C and live \Yithin onr J'('-n'ntw is 1 '.' rn(' that has r.ot failed, tlwt nH·i-hoc1 i~ ltC'i-,g :-:dot ,f,,d to-d:J,. Let ' e 1 ·," -1 ,..-hat ~fT. S··nll i-:1 ~aid 0:1 18th .Tun(·--

~, T\o one would \Y~'lrmnc a practical plan more than I. If anvbodv could h·ing- m•c down I would d1:op this one. . . .. It has been my lifelong ambition to unhft thP people a.nd improve the \t.andar~ls of HYing, and it is a crushing cn:-;appointnlf"nt to me that as Prime :Hin-istf!l', I haYe to introduc~ legislation ·whieh Pnvi;;;ages the lo,vering of existinO' co_ldit1ons." - 0

~Ir. Theodore. speaking in the House of Representatives on 18th ,June, srtid-

'' These severe economies are forced npon Australia not by our political opponents but by the stern realities of the situ2tion which cannot be minimised lw a'lyboc1y. Those who oppose the plan nn the gronnd that it is not ~ound

bring fonv trd an alternative one rhat practic,J_bl0. I con1n1end this nlan t0 the :House as the mo.')t l1raf't~,~-ahlc

n to mod thP 'ituation. and trust it will meet with general support."

a.n:vhod,y ir.1ngiu0 for an instant \Yerc an cusy \\~ay unt such as

Lhat which the Leader of the Opposition has suggested-or such as the delightful plan which was suggeste·i bv the Deput\ Leader of the Opposition-who \~onlcl not plty anyone­a plan with <vhich all the other members on the front declined to bo associated, getting up one after the othc~*'rL]lUdi, bng it and .say­ing, "IIe does not ::o-I~(_tk for rne"-(laughtcr) -does. anybody irnogine that. i·f there v;ero such an easy \vay out, the Prcrniurs \Votdd ;1ol have t:ken it? IItcidcnt-all:.~, let 111n sa:, that it only goes to show \Yhat a hopeless rabble the Labour Party ha Ye bcco1ne 1vhen the Deputy Lc.Ldcr gets up and makes the definite statement that, if tlwy y. ere in power, they 1 .• onld repudiate \lw debt and not pay in~ercst, and when l1is o\vn colleagues get up and repudiate •,uch a sentimE,nt, and ask that lh~y be not wcsocirrted with it. Another fact to he considered is that it was definitelv suggested that it ,,;ould be quite easy, instead of going in for this p1un. "\\'hich is called the curtailrnC'Ylt of cxpc~1diture and tht reduction of wngr to go in instead for taxation. \V ell then. let us tftko the taxa­tion as it is and consider that possib-ility.

~·,,:r. l")OLLOC'K: Ye u vre taking it all right.

The PHE:\IIEH: 1\'c are taking what we {;an get; but the suggcctlon wa..s that \VO

hould 1ncct tho pD~~ibon by imposing rnore t:txation on the people instQad of going in for ,,-hat the hon. member c•dls repudiation, re­trcnchL,_1cnt, and C'lrtu.1hncnt of wagcs~that \YO should get the we wi~h to get by taxrrtion. The deficits of all the Australian Govcrnnlf'llts for this ·vear were £41,000.000. The estimated total ,:evonue of all (~o' ornn1cnts fro 11 i nrom_o taxation for the voar 1831-32 is :::19.640.CJO. 'o t':at the increase in taxation to which the Leader of the Opposition has referred \YOuld be equal to £34,500,000, or 175 per cent. EYr·r.vbody kno,v~_, th0t that wou!.d be vcr~(:ct1y inlpDs­~ible, and thect thctt sum could not be got. There j;-; only one ~.-ay in which to do what ·.'.'C ha vc to do, and tlLtt is to adopt the plan put for .• 1 rd \Jy the Premiers.

Ilcre I to clr~l\V attention to what ::\1r. l'beoclore ' in his pcP.:b in the Federal

of Rep1·es0ntatiYes, as reported in " Hansarcl,'' :'\o. 22, at page 3400-

,, The :::c11err1e is based, in the first phcc, npon the fall of the cost of living 1 hroughout the Commonwealtl:J', which ju~l ~lic:s a, rcdnction Df the basic \vage, and, in the second place, on a further p('rcentage redudion, ac~Jording to a sliding scale, on the ren1aining salaries."

1\ote that Mr. Thcoclonl did not say that the .,cheme was based upon the economic r1osition forcing a reduction, but~

" upon the fall of the cost of living ... which jnstifies a reduction of the basic \.\ .L.gc."

The fio·urcs have b,ccn provided lpy the C'om­Inonwe;:-dth Stati-stician, and he sat,.; they justify the reduction of the basic wage.

\Ve have been criticised by hon. members opposite who have said that the Goycrnment interfered with the Indu trial Court. ·what is the position in the Federal Parliament? }\fr. Theodore said-

" Employees under the Federal arbi­trator's a>vards, which pro,-ide for cost of living acljustnH'nt, and have prescribed a further reduction of 10 per cent., will be paid in accorchnce with these a','ards. No further reduction will he made in s~::ch awards unlccs the Minister so djrects.''

Hon. A. E. liloorc,]

344 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

Xot the Arbitration Court, but the Minister-" This po\ver is necessary to cover cases

in which there may be serious inequality as het·-':eon the aw~.rds and the general redn~iions under this Bill for emplovees n~CP.l v1ng sirnilnr pn y. "

" ;\fr. Bcas!cy : The Mini.,ter will vir­tually take the place of the Arbitrati0n Court'?

" Mr. THEODORE: Only for the purpO>c of apply1no- the Bchmne gcnc~rally on an equitoJJlc basis, not to interfere with the cor>dit:oHs applied by the court."

That is exactlv \Yhat i·. ncCCf-'3ary here. and the FedC'ral Goven1ment found it nccesc,arv too. I£ the Arbitration Court dotofl not. functi0n so as to allow the Federal G0vernment to got the ncccssar.. reductions in question, then the :Minister has the power to.make them. Mr. Thcodore continued-

" Employees under Federal Arbitration Court a wards in which there has been no adju•tnYnt will :!so be dealt with by the :\1inister. Other classes of emnlovecs that \Yill require exarnination ~n<:fude ernp1oyecs under State a·ward..s. rrhere hr: ; been no uni fnnnity as behveen States in tl~c variation of awards, and somo reducti-on 1nay be necessary to pre~ Ye:lt : r;rious int:<]nalit1cs in the treatn1ent of the Conunon\v.·_alth ClDVloyees."

I-Ie ful'tht~r stated-.. The Federal awards will be l,'pplic~

ab]e, irh th8 revision th~t \n'l.S l'ecrntly rnadc. \Vhcre such en1ployecs arc unde'r l: St a\Yard. and th~lt H\vard has not been adiu~t'ul ·conunensuratclv y;ith \Vhat. is { ~}~l~·a·in.ed i11 this Bill for" tpplicat]on ic ihc ColGnron\vcalth s:?-rvicP, th··- .\lini~-tcr ·ill the right to. rcYise the

tuki1;g lnto account the the Con1nlon~vca 1 t.h

('(,n::ol'nPd nnl.y be working ~,nth othf'r persons \\ ho ar·'

HLlYtD cl g s of v;rork and <Ul~ in tlw t",an1e grade, and 'dw::;e rates \vill rnt be rPdnced."

Tlwi is cxrrctlv -.,yl-dt we hayc c~o 10. \Ye haY? hc.f1 t0 ('kc th~t. rc:.:.polYibJl1t,v. rrnd WC I" n C taken It know1ng fu]} Y1-clJ . ·:hat 1\'8

'''cEe clning, nnd bo-c-tn e it \Y<1. tlh·.olutPlv cssentb.l in the interests of th0 ;d·;;JlP nf th~~ ctm.lf!lU11it~· that \YC' f'.houlJ tr }.;:p that re~rJon~lbilit~".

'\Tr. TJ,, odc•rc further stated-" All contributions bv tl::c Go·:,__'l'llnlcnt

ro ~l-·c Con1n1onwcalth~ ~uperannuation fund arc to be reduced bv 20 per cent. Thcce payments by the GoYcrnment now nmoud to approxima!dy £ZCJ,OJO a year.)'

The Federal GoYCl'mnent did exactly thn san1o thing as the Queensland Govornn1ent ha.ve done) not because they liked it, but bee cUSC-tO quote tho rCnl.tl'kR of ~1r. Scu1li;1-it was abso1uiely essential in the interests of the whole communitY. That is the only reason why this Goyen~mont have bad to do it.

'No hfl\"O been twitted a good dea 1 about unPmploymcnt in this Stato, and in that ronn' et ion I should lil'o to quote the remarks by thn hon. member for Grorrory. contained in. "Hamard ., for 1928 at tJage 443. Ho ~aid·-

" Our exports fell off to the tunc of £13.000.000 as the rosnlt of the loss of wool. That spc cks for itself. \Vhat-

[ lion. A. E. Jfoorc.

PYf our trade- balance 1nay be, '"e hayo­lo:st that a1nount in wool production, and, as I said at the opening of my re1uarks, '"ool production has boon the main source of the community's spending power. \Vhcn that source is dried up thero must be stagnation, disturbance, unemploymcllt., cw<l hA.rd times for busi­ness people and others.''

\Vhcn the hon. member for Mitchell 'vas ~peaking t:his .afternoon, h8 gave ihc irupres­sioa that it was so1nothing nRw to see a tnan carrying his s\vag in \Vostern Queens­land, and he CJ.id that he had not seen one before he wont ·out there six '>'. eeks ago. The hon. member fm· Gregory further stated-

" I admit that there is unemployment, and I havf' shovrn rhat there is a reasoa for un.cn1ployment becau..;e o£ drought. This State nn.t~t haYo a Cl":>:rtain nun1be1~ of unemployed in crdor to work its sea­sonal indut".t.r1es. How could the, D indus­tries b·; can-ir,l on un}e-:;,.:. surplus labour was available? I esk the Opposition to ansv;cr that question. But outside of that. I k ·ow there is unemployment, and I an1 ycrv sorrv t11nt it is so; but I haYe not h(,ard dny suggestion frmn tho Opposition that woultl 1ninirnise the uncrnnlovmf'nt in this State. nor has there~ bc;cn rrny are·un1ent advanced_ as to l~c th~: GovernJnf'nt could solve the prohlcrn in n. con:"tru...,tivc wa\-. \Yhen ~onsO!lS rcb.l~·n ag·ain to nonnnl th -, nrob­lenl will lerg<,]y solve itc·]f. but 'until that tirno I ci:1nct rr:ny hope for any Go\'t'lTlrtlcnt. whether it be Nationalist or Labonr~ ~c I \·in.rr this probkrn in n :'Htisfuctory \Yay. rf the Opposition LJ.l11C' (Y""( !' here to-mcnTo\v, the vc'ry f:,ct that the indu.-;t rv I l ·v:e referred to i..; still 111 a btd v,;lV. i1nd vcill l' 111nin SO 1111til rain faiL~, w'ould prcycnt thL'El Ol' ,cny-

cbC' frmn doing of an \'C rntun __ ~ to uncnlploy··

HlPl1t."'

:'-Jr. KFL80: That \\ ·:s ' 1F~n they 't.'re u1 cnicc.

J ~:\· Pf\J~=\JIETI: r>;ll iD--CL.lY j3 p1 ic _. of v;Ool i~; COLt-i_ __ lU :3 in .SOl11C

hi.-:: thnr

c·x c:1v the Gr'c·

xc,. Surcl ilk' posi­;:;:o Inuch wor:._c ~ The lo\vPr, and the t: ·ought

h of Qrwensl[!,nd. That that the holL rnen1~

on b 'ha1f of tho posit~o11 rnuch rnore

~lr. PoLLOCK : You pro_ll i5'ccl to rmncdy the position.

T' e I'RE:iUEH: 1'\o. I promised that the Govcrn1nent \youlO cndeaYour, so far as they poeoihly ':mlcl, to obt<ain a return for the a1nount of rrw11ey expended. That i.s "·hat we are doing.

}1r. BRGCE: 1J"ndcr vour careful lll<l..naeo:~~ mcnt wages would be lncrea· ed.

The PRE:\IIER: I neYer said that. At m:: election meeting held in South Brisbane I was asked wlwt I wo1)lcl do if the .\rbitra­t1on Court fixed forty-eight hours or eyen fifty-two houn per week. I said that what­~Ycr hours ,,·ere fixed by the court vvould bo rhc houTs of 1abonr, and whateYcr v:ages 11·crc ftxcd ,,-ould be ihc "·ages to be paid. f said that the m;ctter \\'Ould be loft to the court; and \Ye haYe left the matter to the court. except in thosn cases "\vhcrc "\-YE' said rhat '.re \rould not do so. I refer now to

Addrc,os in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 345

rural indu;tries. I L('Ver n1ade anv sctJret (Jf it. E\~c:rv~.Yhcre I \Vent I aid ,~hat tho Go;;rrnln~ r;t.~were goint_: to do; antl th·~rc is c\·crr justification fc.r :;u. pc·~ding tho a\\ards r0lati11g to rural industries.

"C\I,.. A. Jo:\rs: Did >OU eav that vou vvero going t·-. suspend thP Statiou~hands'' a'\vard '?

Thr PRK\11ER: I said th>Lt tho Govern­nwnt :Yc\u!d ~u~poncl a\Yards relating to the n!.ral ll'fmstnes.

IVIr. A. JoxEs: ::--.~ot tho statio:-1 hands' tt \Ya r~~-

The PHY!HIER: That applies to a rum! industry; .. nd th0 Govertanent suspended th et award for ·; xactlv th ~ f'fl.lllC r,_<:.lSOTI as

· iH1 a\,·ard "<;·as' swpend~d by tho L~te Govorn­Inr;nt in ('onncction 'i-ritlt the fruit~7rowing indmtr:· ;,l; Sbnthorpe. After the court hr·.cl rnadc the rr v:ard. the Coyc::_·nn1ent, after inquir.r, fonnd that the p·~ople affPcted could J;ot llfrord to the rate avvadcd. \Yhat did th~ thun crnn1cnt do? They 'us-

mdcd tb; because the judgG said th•· f.t·t.IitgTo\vcrs v,-ere not earning suffi-

cient to the rates, and, therefore, could J~ot CoJJSe(iucntly, the Gov !l"Il· LH_nt dny did the only thing that a GoYrrnnH':nt could do. and su~pondcd the a\Yanl. l-Ion. rncrnbc-rs nlltst recogni-:/' that, r.o maitcr <dnt may be the position and ho\~r difficu;t. it v,a: b0, the Government must be guided by fi;,ancial considerations.

now wi ,h to cull attention to the Lcn_d(•r of the Opposition 111

I-Tc said-,, It Jnu~t abo be rL .• _liscd that flnan-

(' :.--tl con :::j de ndions the (::.;:t nt to vd1ich can toin' ::1-l:'c.'t to their _rn J:Tl(•!lL Ltnd r: rtlcnlar}y no (io-Yf'L1!lH~~lt, ,__.., n aiTor(l to i;:rnorc the vr_·oJJc.nl:c c, n<:eqpcnc-0-s of any sct1on they m y pt·op03e to takr:."

\Yl1y do s h think thn~ to-dav -,~ c can aiiortl to i:),!1orr~ tho ccon, r·llc CO:il2.C\ll'.:-nces? The one o:1t t n:cEn:-,. I ~11\Y ~n the s ;eech of the I:o • ' ~.\as· that he ~;aid th~_t the f'Ol1 _1 . iou olJtaining to-dn:· :1 re entire}. differcut fn:m th'1 '::: obtr.jning when his Go-\'PrnnH ut \\·'·l c 1n pnlver. Su they are. Thev m cntin1y cliffe,eLt. This is the dlfh ··c r1cn: This .cu the sbtnncnt nHtdc Ly !\T r. rrhr'ldorn in thi~·. I-I OH.:\C in 1924-

" T1H'V l- cl l1:tP rnir;i1nurn :1

'..-.r<:CnLH' frorn loan mouGT·'. do-eel, co;lld thcv r,1iso \Yithin On• nslnnd ~or Au~·­

nr· ~~cnt Federal Trt_ i-

hnr! report::J. the Austra1ian fHr,o th.:· t. after thoro up· Id Y' and

th·-, indiYldl!al progran11~1c~ of of Au~trali. tho

n~n an10'1nt conld h' advanced to (nc·CJl.:Jlnnd under a scl1cnc of generous allotment was under £700,000 for the year's loan money. 'rhoy could see from this thnt if thev did not have accccs' to OYCrseas' loan money, the State would bo faced vv-ith disaeter."

:Yli-. KERR: They cc ere tho Government then.

The PREMIER: :\o wondor the position to-day i3 differr·nt fron1 \vhat it \Vas wh~.:n the oj,po,ition were in power! It is different. Jmt as ::vfr. Theodorc said if they could

not get a loan of £5,000,000 the State would be faced \vith disaster, it w.as Lecan· .. e. \YC

were faced with that same disaster that we had to take the responsibility of doing what we have done, ignoring all precon ccviv-ed ideas, and doing things which we would not othenYisc haYe done.

:\1r. BRUCE: The late Govornmcut left you £5,000,000 in the Treasury.

The PREMIER : The hon. member for Kcnncdy jg quite right; but he rnust recog­nise that the late Gov·orn~ncnt also left us a deficit of £760,000, which was the first com· mitment that had to be met from that sum. The late Government also left us huge deficits contracted in collncction wjth State enter­prises which \Yero ]os·ing money cYery year. In fact. they left us all arts of legacies, They left us a legacy of ;,bout pey cent. additional interest on our loans a, .a re~nlt of their acts of rcpud18.tion.

I\fr. BRUCE: You bought Sv,1ft's Elt' )t­works.

The PRK\HER: I can justify t' .at pm·ehaso.

l\Ir. HY:"rES: It io a public scaJ>dal.

The PR El\1IER : It is not. It is a good br.rgain, and tlw only fault with the >~·orks jq thoy .rrrc not largo enough.

l\lr. BR~_c,~: The brL 'd of the pc011lc is bciru~· cxp1oitrd. by the 'Trc._,_sury to-day.

The PHE-:":TIER: TL.crc are people who kno\': inorc about thn CP.ttlo iudnstrv than tb.! hon. lnt.:tlliJer \vho says that the pl.'u·chaso cf Swift's rne~twork for abattoirs was the brst thing the Government ever did.

I cr. l3Rc:CE interjected.

:: !.:r. S PE..:~l-\:1~~R.: Order ! ~,lr. JJu-r-c:: Th:2

L;.;in:~ exploitt d L1y

8PEAI~EH n1 d.oc::. no:: the J:u. '-- ,sruy s'i ps

bread of the people is the Treasury.

Order ! If tl'c hon. my call, I must t;,kc

to co;npcl hint to do so.

The P ..i1El\lil.:R: Thoro ],-. OllC particular 1natter I ,,·ish to r'---fcl' to Le< »~use there is one :~pcech rnade by the hon. nH.::rnber fol' Grcgory in \1\hich he took great exception­as did one or t\vo other hon. mcn1bcrs. but they arc not worth quitu as n1uch attc~1tion as he is--to the Govc:.nment's wool nJief schcn1C'. l-Ie ;,vaxcd C'lc..~ncnt in his criticism of this srhemo, and nuv~lc scYcral ~ t.atoruents that ,,.2re in at -:.'ordance ·with fact. I want to got to the bctsis of this wool :::.chc1n0. To Ii~·.tcn to tlle hon. n1cnbcr 1-vhen ho ,~as sncakiE~ about this s ~hcn1c one would imagine that tho agreement had been m Hle with the rretnicrs for a reduction of interest be foro e ~;er th io was suggested. I want to point out, however, that at the time the Govennncnt put for\Yard this wool relief schcrr1e there \\'as no · uggcstio:::1 by any Government in Amtnlia of a reduction in interest. The Queensland Government took the initiatiYe because thev realised that one of the biggest burdens "which had to be carried by the producers in the country was the burden of interest; and it was decided to make a suggestion by which we could get co-operative assistance for this most important industry of Australia-namely, the wool industry. \\T e have endeavoured to do that. ~W c put forward a suggestion that, if wo could get co-operation from the wool companies and the banks by a reduction in

Hon. A. E. Moore.j

346 Address in Rep!y. [ASSE:MBL Y.] Address in Reply.

the rato of interest, we were prepared to assist that very important industry by giving a reduction in rent, an extension of lease from twenty-one to twcnty-·eiC"ht years in the case of grazing farrns, and in pastoral leases an ex ten ion of a portion of the area.

The hon. member for Gregory took me to task. This 1s '"hat appears in '' Hansard "-

" Mr. POLLOl'K: The Land Administra­tion Donrd has no sa v in this question. It r .common clod in its report to this House that an cxtomion of lea'" should not be given in ro~pcct of nwre than one­third of a holding.

" rl'he Prernier : No. " Mr. PoLLOCK: It did. I can turn up

the report and show the Premier." Mr. POLLOCK: That is pastoral leases.

The PREMIER: That is what I am talk­ing about. The hon. member proceeded to say-

" It recommend' d that the lease should not be extended in respect of more than one-third of such leasehold."

I want to poir,t out to the House just \vhat the report of the Land Settlement Advisory Boanl did sa:·-

" Pastoral holdings stand on a different footing to grazing selections. l\Iany of them in the sheep clish·icts arc eminently suited for subdivision,. and the leases, therefore, should not be ('xtenclcd. The only pastoral holdings that need special attention are those that have expired. or are about to expire, and v>"hoso lessee:; have suffered severely by tho drought. It is equitable that those old tenants of the Crown should be given some reason­able concession to enable then1 to recover their Jo, ''CS. In anv event. the imme­diate disbandment o'f their flocks would not be in the public interests."

It will be noted that it was not in the interests of the tenant-not in the interests of the Cro \ n-but in the public in~c1·ests.

" Accordingly \VC recommend tlmt late le•l,·cs of recently 0xpircd pastoral hold­ings which have not yet been dealt with for settlement, and the lessees of hold­ings expiring on or before the 3ht December, 1929, be allowed to a pp roach the Land Administration Board for a recommendation to the JYiinistcr as to ;'·hat conc0ssions should, in the public rnterests, be granted then1."

Tho~e arc the cases in '"hich it is rccon1-mc!\derl to do it.

JYir. PoLLO''K : Read on.

The PREMIER: I propose to do so-" That the Land Administration Board

inquire into the applic::~otion and rcCOln­

ntend conrcssions subject: hov:ever, to the following restrictions in the caso of good-quality sheep lands: -(a) I\' at more than one-third of the original larger holdings to be re-lcnscd, provided, how­ever, that no such new lease be less th·,n double a liYing area in tho parti­ctlla r district."

Mr. POLLOcK: Hear, hear ! \Vby did you .~.ay I v~,as lying?

The PREMIER : I said these referred to ], that had <'xpirecl, \Vo now come to

lest-"In addition to the

spective of drought

[Hon. A. E. Moore.

aboYo. and irrc­conditionf'. we

rocornrr..end that the lessees o~ p~i,storal holdings, which have t0rms to run not exceeding five years, ·bo allowed to ap!Jroach the Land Aclministratio_n Board with a view to surrenderi '!1' then· leases and obtaining new leases for the ·,\·hole or •_:,uch part of the area as public interr <t' may render adY'sable."

That is what the Land Settlement Advisory Board rr·.ommencled. The part which the hon. member qrwtecl was for those which had expired. It was recommended m respect of tho~se that the board should go into the question and make such dec:isions as the public intcr.·sts may render advrsable. That is e··cactly what 'YC drd. It Is all very well for the hon. member to say that the pastoral lessws have both feet in the trough, and that the moat has been taken off the bone and thrown to them. After the most careful investigation, in the course of vvhich evidence y·,'s taken all over Queensland, the Land Settlement Advisory Board brought. in a recommendation as to what they considered \Vas a living are:t. That was an area that \:ould c;d'ry 6,000 sheep, and that was ba,ecl on an av<'rago of year"'. Now tho ~ton !nC'rrl~ her brin?;s a dopntation along-wrth whom I havo ;,very sympathy-and suggests that tho present areas, vvith wool dovrn and 1n

a drought ,·ear, are not living areao.. qf course they arc not, but most of them aclmrt that thev have an aTea sufficient to carry 6,000 she0p, which in the past was considered to be a living area. Are we to base \vhat is a livincr arPa on " drought period and with ootat the lov'est price·level for fifty vPar~. \Vo have to take an ayorage scaf'on. The hon. member further says-

" Yet, although the Premiers' plan was supposed to be devised to achieve that objective, the Premier of Queens­land actuallv proposes to buy a reduc­tion of int0i;e;t \Yith the land of \''hich he is the trustee on behalf of the State. I~ spite of the Pr0miers' plan, it is actually proposed la bny that reduction of interest bv n:tending the leases of p opk who ha Ye no ng·hi or title to e';tension o£ their term. In my opinion. the proposal of the Premier is most reactlonar:y.''

\Vhon '.CC put forward the proposal there was no quc,tion of a reduction of interest. There \V a, 110 :PrC'Inirrs' plan. VV c put for­ward the suggestion to try to relieve these people. It was not clone in the interests of tho pastoralists but in the interests of Queensland. It was clone "in the pubhc interest." as was recommended by the Land Settlement Advisory Board. The pastoral )e .. seo has as much right to consideration as the grazing farmer. They both have had a· bad a time as tlwy could po"sibly have. ThLv are not wallowing in wealth as the hon. rn"ember for Gregory would h7 to lead one to believe.

l\ir. PoLLOC'K: I did not saggest th~t. It is a question of equity.

The PREMIER: It is a question of equity. For years the hon. member, Yihen on this side of the House. supported a GoYcrmnent that believed 10,000 acres was a living are~. Time after time, when 20.000.acre grazing farms fell in, the lessees did not get priority for the 20,000 acres. They were reduced to 10,000-acre blocks. But now, after the worst drought we have had for years and

Add1·ess in Reply. [18 Auauscr.] Add1·ess in Reply. 347

with wool at its very lowest, the hon. mem­to::T bring, along a deputation~ and he !'r~nts to haYe a liYing area fixed on the cond,twns ~hat f~J~ain to-clay.

;ur. POLLOCK: The Government I sup­were the only Government that ever --eel j he question of a living area.

T!1<· PREMIER: The Government that the Lon. member supported got the whole of thu paFtoral k.-·;ees into such a holy mess that 1 hey were forced to try to get them­::;elves ont of the position by appointint;

L".ncl Settlement A<hisory Board to go t:1e wholo question of living areas.

That board brought in recommendations that \l'f'l'P a. direct negative of the whole policy that rho Labour Government had been carry­ing out for years past.

?,fr. PonocK: Absolute rubbish'

The PREJ\1IER: Not at all. Every rceornrncndation n1ade bv that Board con­dnmcd the Labour polic;· and the adminis­tJ>.-.tion of the Labour GoYernnwnt. and, 1·lwn found that the gTazing farmers

forced off tl~r• land and that Jt•, 'K'CS \YC'i'C f:1c0d \Yith n!i~la~

decided to alter their nolicv in \Yith the rocommonclatio'ns of the

hon. member further sJid-" These delegates aro·ucd. soundlv in

opinion. o;~t bera1~,~(' of the slnrnp -wool nrir :s to-da .,-, because of the

an10unt of baci-:: debts thev were and because the, 1vere ·unable

their interest ratc·s· reduced bv thc7 would need to have ai1 enough to enable them to

B.COO to 9.000 sheen at least, n1ight be able to .._C'arr\· on."

If a mw, is in deep water and stru;vling, J..; it to 1nako his no:- ition anT easier if ,,_.t> the water dcCllCr? \Ve ·ha Ye to bl.-· tlw position in the industry over an

of ~·ear:;;, and not. pick ouf one vear. ·m. member mus! admit that in '1925,

\YlH'll ·,yc_~:-:_1 pr~CC'fi W"l'E' ~iE!h. it \\"Cl<:: U liYing nrc<l. You .r:rrvc L L-...;: the area on an <JH'l'P.:.f~' sca~on.

?\fr. PoLI.OCK: You would not pick out a pPak .>.-r'1.r to dedde \Yhat jfi :'. IiYing area.

Th·· ''REl\liER: In 1927 tlw hon. member f: id--·-

1927 the Labonr GoYernment the Ad that gan; these people the

ig-ht to nn ;."dditional rrrea. to bring them 1'1' to fl li>ing area. We were tlic fir·t.

to recognise the ncc;.__;..;;;;;it.:v, for a a rn. the first p~oplc actually to Lnnds Department to hold a com­a£ inqairy to a~::c rtain \Vhat 1vas

It was on the recommcn­thc Lane! Selt 1emcnt AdYisorv

the liYing area was at tha·t more or lr<; inaccurately and

; Qut it wn rcalie~d that a E';ing arPa ~honld be obtain0d for each

ttlr~r. ''

mc-n1lJ0r w0nt on practically to sa~~ people were denied the ina.licn­y.·hich had boon given to them to

ar ·a of lend. \Yh·t i.- the Land Adminirtration Board?

Thi< [, an extmct from its fi1·st r0\10rt in 192-S-\, c: 1Nf'l'O not the GDY('rnmcnt thPn--

" An1ong the first large arC'as of p:raz­i· .~ land to fall into the lHmrls of the r•;-~~,vn was Sa1tern Creek expired hold~

rcfrrr2d to in prcyious pa~·C'S. l'~o\r,

in the vicinity of Saltcrn C1·eck there are a number of sclectDl's on Yery small areas. The board wa.s immediately inundated with applications fron1 them· for priorit:-7

additional areas over portions of Saltcrn Creek. Some of the applicants ~cemed to imagine that, becau e they were estab­lished on small a re'·> in the neighbour­hood, they had a right to priorit:· to additional areas over and above the clmm of any pcr,on in the community who also desired the land. It soon became apparent that if the small landholder had his wa.v no land wo!lld bB available for nevv g1:azing settlement in the future; it would all need to be allocated as addi­tional areas. Obviously this was not the intention of the LegisL1ture.

"Small landhold.ers, any more than large Lndholdcrs, cannot be allowed to become a privileged cla•·s and obtam valuable concession·-- at the expense of ancl to th(3 detrirnent of t}y~ comrnunib~ at large."

~[r. POLLOCK: ']~hat is just \V hat you ha Ye

done with the pastoral lessees.

The PREIUIER-" The intention of the Act '' a.s that, if

it \Yerc convenient and desirable in the puUlic intorest, sru t1l :-,rcas of aYailnble 1 tnd rnight fron1 tin1e to tlmc be grantc·0-''; additional arDs. But '' holec:..lc apph­cationB for priority over expiring pa.s~ toral holding~ \vor•:l never contmnplatcd, and, of course, rould not be allowed."

\\'hut is the positior? Thesn pastoral lessee" ha1·c b-.,en g·i,·en the opportunity, pronded thev could show their interest rates wore n tLlCccl, to get an extension of live year~-jn some case,, for two-third, of their holdmgs, in e.onw c _t~es for one-third, and in son1c caE.es fc-· one-half, a.nd then half of it .c·as resumed. In cvcrv r:: _ ,_, half the area, in s01ne cases t\YO-thirCls, 1s bci11g resumed at once; but in p.yerv cao;;e half is bc1ng rcfnmcd, and In cycrV it ,,, ill £tcr,vards bo res1m1ed at the · of a period o£ five years.

:\h. PoLLOCK : :\Ianv of the banks carry on the phc· ., and have merely reduced the rate.; of intcrcBt on th-' books.

The PRE:l.HER: It is n ~;oocl thing, as the Land Settlement Ach·i,ory Do.:.rd•s repo~·t indicate::;, t~!at. vdwn thi11gs were at tholl'

and wool lo\v, tl1e Cro\\11 tenants V\~ho bomo all the hnt and burden of the

-hould be pitched o-:t? Th'3 whole of our couccrn was not for C1e ind1Yidual but. for Quee11si~-- rHl, b"~ause 0ueens1and i? vitall;.­intcrosted in the y ool industry. It JS one of rhr 1nost important industr:iE:~; wo h.a'le. The reliL•f scheme vvas not gone Into \VIthout the c1osc3t rcrutillY and ronsic1era,tion, .and we rccog-nj . ..:cd that one of the best tl11ngs. v-8 conlcl tlo wa.1 to help that industry. A time ;:.:uch as we v re going thro Jgh now is n?t a hn1c ln which we should sr1end ;.yoeks 1n Jte~~r:tin t1on. \Yhat we ~hcm1d endca rour to do is ar~ quickly aud to. rcdnco the rents

off \Y c l1ad to giYC some cncour-ngcn1etli~ to .mortg,tgc··)S, by which they would cndeayour to co-Oll-:rab• \rjtb nnd help th(~ Ciovcrnment a.nd help the woolgro·wcr to get lr:to a l]r:>ttcr r"sition. Th,, biggest hnr_d~n of all is inlerP·<t. Take Land Admln"-tration Board's report of year-

r'_,_.\~~.'_LYSJS OF Snr:EP GRAZIERS' CosTS. " Co:;;t s inrnrrccl b:- graziers ncccssa1:ily

Yrtry 11 ith different properties, aceord1ng lo the number of sheep carried and a

Hon. A. E. Jioorc.]

348 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

great variety of other circumstances. But, taking an average grazing property situated in \Vestern Queensland, it will be found that, at the• present time the princi p?J costs come under the following head~, and in the following order :-

(1) GenereJ running costs; (2) Interut on overdraft; (3) Shearing costs ; \4) Railway freights; (5) Crown rent."

The Board stated that in 1915-16 the cost per sheep on 'm average-sized grazing property in Central Queensland varied from 2s. to 2s. 6d. per sheep, whereas no\v it varies from 4s. to 5s. per sheep: that is, costs have about doubled during the last fifteen years.

The Board stated-" The. debts b0ing carried by sheep

propertl<'s in Queensland range from 10s. to £2 10s. per sheep on the stocking u1pccity of the country. For these debte grrc ~er~ pay up to 7~ per cent. interest. \Ye e timnte that, in many grazing dis­tricts, the average mortgage debt on graz­ing farms approximdes £110s. per sheep. TLe interest on such a. debt an1ounts to 2<. 3cl. per sheep per annum. or not leos thrrn onP-thirc1 of the value of the clip ut prcsPnt prices."

The 1Vhr,1e effort vvas to try to get a better system of eo- .reration bL,- which v.~-e could help the industry. The hen. member for G ~·ep:ory st·,tccl in his Ppeech in lf:J20 fron1 Y.':1irh I qnoted th11t if that industry fell do·wn ,.,.,,c rannr' sJ.ve (lnecnsland. It is one of the n1o:;;t irnporL1nt indnt:Jries We have got.

l\Jr. POLLOCK interjected.

The PREMIER: Most of these nastoral l0ases thrtt the hon. 111f'mb0r IVW; ~talking about expire in 1933. Half the area will be taktn at that ti:.1o.

Th-2 SECTIETAR'i'" 1-'0R H.HL\VYYS: IiaJ£ or nJorc.

The PRE'\IIER: Half or more. l\.I r. POLTfJCK : But are vou go in;~ to ("'ive

<en C"-~t ne.·;, .. :m of froru one-half to t\\-:_o-thirds?

Thr: rRT~J.JIER: 1.,.c .

~fr. Pou.;cK: C8n thPy take one-half to t.wo-thirc1~?

TlL~ PH V. ,TI:·:n: Jt dc11ends on f·1o cla~.:l it~ ell :nnco fro~u a raih;~ay,

The hon. n1en1 bc-r 1 no1Ys all

~IT. FoLLr'c-:: I do not k~_ov; it.

'l h~ PRE;\<IBR: The hon. rno:·mbm: : hould h.lO'.v it. He knmn of thing" of that sort.

::\1r. PoLLOCK: It 1s a rrwttcr of Go;;ern­Incnt po1ir:7

•

The PREMIER : Of com· e it is .a mutter of Gov2rnmcnt policy-to put it before the Land Adn1inistl·at1on Bo:'lrd to sa'\7 v-hr.t is to he g·ivcn in th,, interests of thc.pcople.

:\fr. : IY ill you «ccept tho recom-tho board?

Tlw IUE:'IHER: Certainly. ::\Ir. T'mwc-,: \Yh~ say it rs not your

r:finir?

The PRK~\HEH: That is the Government's rolicy.

~lr. Pnn.ocK: ){ ou shonld accept the rc~ponsilJilit/.

[Hon. A. E. Moore.

The PREl\IIER: I accept the re"pon::,i­bi!ity. Do not think that I am trying to get away from it. It was done deliberately to try to help this particular industry. Should we com0 along at the very r;orst period of their experience, and ny, "\Ye \rant you to giv( up your areas nO\Y, at i.he Yery 1vorse tirne pos'sible, in order that we mav di,'ide them up amongst the settlers who are already there, and who consider that they hnvc prior rights because they arc on r:,mallcr areas than what I\ ill can·,: iht~ nun1L~r of sheep 1vhich they think i~ · n0c0~~ sary to giv0 them a living, and y:ho want an arn. that will cany, say, 9.000 sheep·;'' I say that was unfnir. All sections ll1Ust be treated alike; and bocaus'e son1e pt!CpL: have less than •.hnt thcv consider arc living arc , have thc:r a better right than orher ;,l' ·rions of the lOrrnnunltv '\Yho \Vant to t::-JllH~ in: "

1\Ir Pm.LCCK: I am not a king that.

The PRE~11IER.: It is very near it. J\ir. POLLOCK: rrh,~re was still enough.

The PREl\HER: There ' JS still enough at the ('nd of ten ~ _ ars.

:,Ir. POLLOCK: At the end of fnc Y·C'.• :·'·

The P REI\liEH : 'There \Yas still nt the oncl ':f h'n VC'ctl'S for thof'C' in. in \Yh-ich Cc:tJO ITIL{dl of it "\Vas'

Th1 n the hon. m ~rnbc·r for J3o.lonr:.e ,..,, 1 :He d to k1101" if the Go 'ernn1cnt v,rcrt~ •)"'o-in_::-7 to r;cr pctuatc i he policy of ta ki 'l-j t l1e v;orst land for 1he grazin-g "elector nnd gh·ing the be:::~ to tho pastoral les~ce. l)}J cYer hc-.:.r a al -nrd or a 1nor,·

;ttP~nrnt? whole position i.• th' and Act, which ddhoitcly

~h~ll l1r~ tnkPn and hcnv ehall 1 ,, di,·idPcl. Sect'on lf;6 of the dcfinitclv h!YS down the principle.

l\ 7~r. l;OLT.~C'i:: Let me a r, 1-:: yon thi~ (l\J03-

tion. A grazing srlcctor ·~,vith a liYinr.s i::; entitled h1 priorit:T over a liYing arr>i.! his lcae~ expires. \\:hat right has a pn'toral lessee to rtn extcns1on of lease for t1v0nt~· or thirty :.·ea,rs?

The PR.ECIIIER: I\o right, except that tl:,, nucstion of G-ovcrnm{ :1t policy and tht\ publ1c i-ntl'rcst eo:n0s in-no other right. 'fhe pnb11c inb~r,,t at the prf·c,ent tirun ls para­rnoHnt.

~-; r. 1-'0LLCC:::.:.:: Don't go b '_ck on you~- ..:..t'l1·e­

tncnt.

The PRE111Ii'~R : I do not g-o .T1Ji:;::.' not bro 1ght up :-:s a nevY

f',~fr. PoLLoc;.:.: It is too old, unfor~:u1·-toly.

PH E~ TIER : There is jn;;t OH•"' otber I \Von1d liko to rncntion. Th0 hon.

for C 'Ok congratniated 01c Go,~crn­H1cnt on c·ppointinf? ~he Xortl~ ~n+~f'l!Sland DeY lotn11cnt ConunissJon to go ID LO dle qu.P..;­tion o( land ; •ttlrmrnt an cl f01 '"try. an cl the hon. rnernl::0r for Cairns interjected, "}Iore waste of good H!Orl"V !"

1\.lr. O'I(EEFF.: \-x~~h"; could not you t>,ppoint officers fron1 the Fol·estry Dcpartn1ent?

The P1-t'li.:~1IETt : The hon. nLlnbcr no\Y wants to ,;et ont of tlw ho made. I-Ie re;:ogniscs that it c1ay n1.:dc aYdnvard for h:n1 up j ; the C l!rns electorate. . In pa~:-ing, I \Youlcl ljko to c,-1l the ~1.1-tr•ntron of t},c hon. rr1Pmbcr to the fact that. \vhen bi~ Govt~rnn1ent appointed commi.-;s.io!:.;;, th(~y paid thf:~ roeinb('rs, v::heth•r thtJ~\- Irl

the Go,~crnlncnt serYicc or not, a :::.un1 of

Address in Rrply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 349

£2 2s. a day and tra veiling expenses. (GoYernrr.cnt laughter.) Vv'e do not. I just ·want to say that this comnli"dion was upvointed for a Yery definite ptu~po"e

:\Ir. !J'KED'E: The people of Korth Queens­land--

Th·1 l:'RE:\HER: The hon. member made a n1i~htke, and no·t he \vants' to l'l tract. Tlw commission was appointed for a very dcf'tnito purpose, and in rr1y opinion will do an immense amount of good because it took its evidence from the people, just as did the Land Settlement Advisory Board. '\Ye r;ant to determine which land is most suit a blo for agriculture and which for fore:·.i:ry.

J'llr. O'KEEFE: Have you not got sufficient nH'n in the Forestry Department and other departments· and thus sa~. e the expcn·~e?

The PRE:\IIER : If we had appointed officinls entirely, the hon. n1cmbcr v'.·ould ha,-e ]:-, 2n the first to say, "VYhy did you not put someone on from outsiclo-~omeone who -"·vns not an official?"

I\lr. O'KEEFE: You have bvo officials on it ~lt·ndy.

FHE7>'1ER: Vv'e have an outsider on it knows all about such questions.

:1lr. O'IC EFE: Why try to get out of it?

Th~._-. PRE~IIER : I do not ·want to get out of it. I want to justify it.

l;G. Fl:~;}IEXT l\fE}IDERS: Hear, hear!

The PHK:UIER: I can jLJstify it. It 1s not :· qu,.,i·ion of the Government trying ta get <>Ht of it.

At 8.:"2 p.m.,

3.1·:. SPEATCER: Order! Tho hon. gentle­man has exhauste.d the time allowed him nLdt:r the Standing OrderR.

The HOME SECRETARY (Hon. J. C. Pcterson, Normanby): I beg to move-

" That the Premier be gnanted an t·xt f'ion of time to enable hhn to com­pl··tc his speech."

::\1r. SPEAKER: Is it the will af the House that' the Premier be granted an exten­sion of timo to enable him to complete his speech?

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS: Hear, hear !

Mr. 0' KEEFE : It is only an election stunt.

The PREMIER: It is not. I want to be quite definite. The Deputy Leoader of the Opposition indulged in an election stunt when he was in the Herbert electorate and said that the only time that the railways paid ""s when there was a strike and the railways were closed down. He sai-d that, if the people wanted to make the railwayo pay, then they should run one train a week from Brisbane to Cairns.

2\1r. PEASE: You ran away from Cairns.

The PREMIER : The Royal Commission on the Development of North Queensland was appointed for "' very definite purpose. There is not •ulliciont informatian in the Department of Public Lands relating to a num.ber ,,£ m·,,as in North Queensland. I remember the Labour Government introduc­ing the Pabwrsto.'l Area Bill, but it was dropped because the Government discovered that tl1ey did not have very much informa­tion about the area. They discovered that the area reported to be available and suit-

able for sr'tlemeut IHlS not there. It is necessary that the D<>partmcnt of Public Lands shouH han> definite information as to the arPa a-vailable, jts suitability, its ql!ality, and the price at which it should be made a. a.ihble for settlement. It is neces­sary a!ld de2irable that the Royal Cornrnis­sion should obtain information to enable the Government to decide from what land the timber should be removed immediately, the land unsuitable for the growth of timber, and the land that should be reserved fot· tirnber production. I have (;very confidence that the commi"ion will be able to give us that information.

Mr. BRL'CJ:: It was appointed too late. The PREMIER: The hon. member would

find fault with anything that we did. The commission may have been appointed later than it should havo been appointed; but the hon. member will he ;,blo to take adnmtage of rho infarrnation, prm·ided he has a seat in the nest Parlian1ent.

l'dr. POLLOCK: There are quite a number of U3 <ac,xious about that matter. Can you tcli us whl'thor we shall have se,,ts in the next .Par] iaru ~~nt or not?

The PRE::\IIER: No. I 1nmt to say quite definitely t'hat the Gonrnment will not inter­fere with the commission that will be appoi Lted to redi,,tribute the electorates. That commission will be entirely indepen­dent, and will do its work having regard to the community of interest's, and not with a. Yie,v to political expediency, a~ vvas done in some c tscs ta which I could refer. The Deputy Leader of the Opposition did not criticise the Government at all.

Mr. PEASE : I criticised you. The PREMIER: The hon. member took

a report from a newspaper, alleged that I h1.d said something or had done something. and immc. di8.tely built up a large structure so as to be able to mako a venomous attack upon me with a view to knocking me down. IIc complained that something was not in the Governor's Speech, aHd immediately conunenced to put it there in order to have something to talk about. The rest of his time he spent trying to get out of the unfortunate statement that he had made, and which his colleagues had repudiated. That did not get us very far.

:Mr. PEASE: You were not game to put it in the Governor's Speech.

The PREMIER : It is not a question of not being game. That was all the hon. member di·d. W"o are going through one of the most difficult periods in the history of Australia, and we are entitled to expect something a little more constructive and something a little more helpful than that type of criticism. I rose principally because I wanted to deal with the Government's attitude from the point of view of the wool scheme, and also to deal with what the Government had to do in conjunction with the Premiers of other States and of the Commonwealth to arrest the economic drift. Nobody thinks that the plan evolved at the Premiers' Conference is going to rehabilitate Australia. It is only the first step.

Mr. VV. FoRGAN SMITH: How many more plans will you have?

The PREMIER: I do not know. To be quite honest I cannot see very much day­light at present. The position is not getting much better. I am quite satisfied that the

Hon. A. E. Moore.l

350 Address in Reply. [ASSEJYIBL Y.] Addr~ss in Reply.

po··ition cannot get Ldter until all GO\·ern­ments get into. the position when govern­me"1tal cxpeud1ture is kept within the revenue. \Vhile GonTnments keep on calling on the bank. to make up their deficits they are taking money which should go to assist in developing and expanding industry. Savings arc going to be the fuel of industry, and the position of employer and employee alike will be affected therobv. \Vc cannot go on incre ,sing natural inco~e by increaserl taxation on \''ages and returns from capital. If one sc'ction is going to take more than its fair shaec from industrv then the otlwr s,·ction is going to suffe~< About three-fifths of our national income now goes in ''"agr-'s. If IYO aro going to haYc the sa1nc number of rnen cmnloved on a gr('atly reduced national ineolne: then there must be a reduction in the amount per head they receive. If, on the other hand, thcv are going to get the same nmount of monc,·. tlwn there must be a redm·tion in the' number emnlo· eel. The statcm0•1h haYe been made that. if wages nre red m· rl, then the purchasing po·ser of tb' poop],, is eJ .. o .reduced, (Opposition interjections.)

Mr. SPEAKER : Order!

The PRK\1IER: Judge Fras0r, in the course of a judgment i>1 the New Zealand Arbitration Court. said this-

" I an1 collvinc'd that it is -f'c:onomi­cally irnpossiblP- to n1aintain Inoney v ages at their present level. The sub­stantial reduction in tho national income and the generally lo\Yer lcvd of world prices call impemtavely for a reduction of all cc:._:t,,J including "\Yagc"."

Then he goc·3 on to say-" The fallacy in the second proposi­

tion is alrnost the converse of the first; high "\Yagcs do not nccc,,sarily or in fact nwan greater spr:ndiLg povi-er and there­fore more trade. High wages mean in the m a joritv of instances r<"•trictcd ~pending. IH.nVer owin~ io the increased prices of romrnodities due to high wage<;" .. It is •n economic fact demonstrated by prc,ctical family experience, that high "\Va,c;cs, vvhen they arc based on a \',·ards and not on production, increase the cost of commodities out of proportion to the rate of wages received and the wage earner has relatively lee.; to spend, because his necessities cost more and his spending power is restricted by the cost."

Everybody kn'1ws that to be true. Mr. POLLOCK : Carrying wages to their

logical conclusion by reducing them suffi­ciently.

The PREMIER : It might be quite pos­sible that in the future thev will have to come to their logic.Ll conclusion. That is, to the cost of producing things which we can export overseas to compete on the world's markets. I hope it will not come to that.

Mr. HYKE": \V ages arc down to the coolie standard of living now.

The PREMIER : I do not know that the hon. member could prevent that under the existing conditions.

Mr. HYNES: God help us if that is correct.

The PREMIER : So far as I can see, the only possible way to prevent that is by

[Hon. A. E. Moore.

borl'O"\ving a sufficient amount of rnoncy abroad to pay the difference betv.• 'I' \\hat the wage-earner earns and what he should get. If not, then the \vage-earncr must pro­duce at a rate which will enable the , om­modity to be wlcl.

1lr. BRUCE: There is over-production in Australia now; yet people are starYing.

The PREMIER: Why? DccaU3c, mving to tho incidence of the Federal tariff and other things, the cost of production is so high. The imposition of the sales btx com­bined 1vith these other things i"' 1naking the cost of living clearer.

:Mr. O'KEEFE: And the cost of transport in Queensland is partl0• responsible for t!J,, clearer nst of living.

'l'hc PRE::\HEE: Exactly. }fr. O'l(EEFE: \ 1,-.-hy? Dcc1.use your Go­

vernment is not prepared to compel the shipping companies to fix rcasonabL-· r0-tes.

The PHl':\:IER: I ,, ill tell the hon. mem­ber whv. It is because the Government of "\Yhich ~the hon. n1crnbcr was a tiUpportcr constructed so many r aihvays for political purposes instead of productive Jnrposes, ,.·ith the result that their cost has impose·~ such a burden of interest on tho State that it will take years to recoYer from it.

Mr. POLLOCK: ~{ ou 'vould be b:.tilding raihvav lines now if -vou could (;(et the money; and political !im" too.

The PREMIEH: The hon. mcmbc knows that what I am saying is true.

Mr. 0' KEEFE · The cost of tL· "sport i,; partly the trouble.

The PREMIER: Of course it is. Mr. O'KEEFE: Tlwn whc· don't y~:u rectify

it? The PREMIER: Whv do ''"e not seiZP the

ships and con f'lipt p~·odnce, a.-, th0 horL 1-nPnlbf'.L 's Govcrnnwnt thrcntenPd to do in 1916? Be. ::tm~ ''"c do not stand for snch a policy.

~1r. 0' KEF.FE: I said ,.-]w don't vou h\gis­latc to protect the consum~rs from" the ship­o,vners '?

The PRE::'IHER: By keeping the boat, aw.q? Does the hon. member. know that the Federal Government proVIded for a shipping committee?

Mr. O'KEEFE: V\Thv don't you do some-thing? "

Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! l'llr. BOYD: Why don't you talk common

sense? (Renewed laughter.)

Mr. SPEAKER: Order ! Mr. CLAY'rON: 'Vhy did you go and help

Lang? (Laughter.)

The PREJHIER: I do not 'vish to be dra ":n on to other questions. U ncler the conditions existing to-day, when our export­able products are fetching a lower price than they have done for years past, it is impos­sible for us to produce goods at a cost which will ent1ble us to compete on the other side of the world if we are to be subjected to sales tax, primage duties, and high tariff duties. The position will become worse. It is no new idea, as the hon. member well knows.

Mr. O'KEEFE: Why do you allow it to go on?

Addn ;s in Reply. [18 AUGUS'l'.] Addnss 'tn Reply. 351

The PREMIER: Surely the hon. member realise.s that> if \YC take reYenLte a way from the railways, \VC are merely taking the money out of the pockets of the people ! \V c must endeavour to get to a position in \vhich we shall have gTPater production to send overseas at a cost which \Yill enable us to sell at a profit. The position is gradually getting better so far as Queens­land is concerned, because last year was better than the year before.

;\1r. PoLLOCK : The basis of your policy is arbitration and pools {or those who produce the primary products, and no arbitration for the people who have to buy the produce.

The PREMIER: But the Industrial Court is still functioning. As Mr. Theodore stated in the remarks which I quoted earlier, it is the d, crease in the cmt of living which jUBti­fies the reduction in wagu.

;,rr. PoLLOCK: Tho decrease in the cost of li, ing cannot cutrh up to the decrease in ·wages.

The PRE:\1IER : Dor-3 the hon. member locow that the Federal award in Queensland is aboe1t 7s. lower than the Queensland Indus­trial Court awarcl, and is based on the cost of living?

::\Ir. PoLLOCK: It has alwavs been oo, irref'pectlye of an:v Go-rernn1ent.

The PREMIER : The hon. member is try­ing to make out th,,t something dreadful has been done by the present Government. l\h. Thcodore has stated that the reduction in wages is justified bv the reduced cost of living. It is not a· nice thing that wages should be reduced. :'\ o one likes to do that. It is '' que tion of economic necessity, and, if hon. members opposite were on this side of the House, they \vould have to do the ,c.tme thing because they could not help it.

:Mr. BRUCE : The basic wage in Queens­land is 3C.;. and £2 per week, which is paid for unemployment relief work.

The PRE::\1IEH : Even that is better than npthing. When the Le.bour Government were in power, there was a large section of the p: Jple who goi nothing, and some got bare rations. We have endeavoured to improve the po~Ition as far as we can.

Mr. PoLLOCK: The numbers of the unem­ployed are growing.

The PH.E:\IIER: When Mr. Scullin went to the cle,·tors he said, " Put us into power and we \vil! fix the hriff so that there will be no unemployment in six months." Yet there a.re 300,000 more unemployed in Aus­tralia to-day than when the Federal Labour Government got into pon;er. It only shows that. \·;hen the hon. member blames us for broa.king promises, hP shuts his eyes when it come• to a question of wh<tt the Federal GoYer.mn:mt. have done.

l\1r. BRUCE: The Senate refused to pass the tariff.

The PRRMIEH.: The Senate has not had a chance to discuss the tariff yet. It was a policy deliberately put into force to assist the nnemployed. It ha.s not done so. Hon. membPtc· must recognise that. It was done honc,tly and sincerely. I do not doubt that; but it did not operate in the way the Federal Government expected, and the position to-day is very much worse than it was. I do not say the present position is the fault of the Federal Government; but these things count in the depression existing in Australia to-day,

alld they arc all diflicult to overcome. It is not a question of being able to overcome thorn by taxation. It is not a question of Lcing aLle to o,-ercome them by the ct·eation of credits. It is just a plain common garden difficulty the.t has to be met just as an indi­,-idLwl ha to me<'t his difficulties by keeping his :·xpenditure down to his revenue. That i~ "·ha.t all the Governments have to do; and until we do that we shall not be in a position to borrow 1noncv overseas. I do not Si.tv it ·;ould be a good thing to borrow even if we could do so in orJer to get out of our diffi­cultie,. \Ye have to bring our expenditure down to our revenue, and that must take precp{_1ence o-;·er everything elfe.

I did not wish to speak at a greater length than I am ailowed under the Standing Order.';; but thD extension W>tS offered to me, and I thank the House for grrrnting me the t"xh ,1sion.

The whole position must be dealt with in iho public iutcr"'sts. The Government have 1' take respowibility for doing things that LO GoYcrHnlellt \\ ould do under norn1al con­ditions. Every Govenuncnt in . .l\ustralia is fared with an exactly -imila.r position. They all h .. ,vo had to do things that they did not like to do. We may have to do things from day to day that we do not like to do. I do not kr, 1w how far we shall ha-''8 to go. It i; not a question of \\h t effect it will have on the I!('Xt election, or whether it will -win or lose votes. It is a quution of what is best for the community as a whole. The country rnu -t C'(JlEC fi.1-st; and things have to be done in the public interest, irrespective of whether they are going to hit any section of the com­munity. That is the difficulty. \Ye cannot be turned aside by sectional interests at a t~~.1c llke this. EYerybod~ must recognise tu at.

An exactly siu1ilar position is coming about in Gre~t Britain. Sectional interests must be put on one side until the position again be·:omc-s uonnal. It is a question of what is bc•e.t in the intcrc,ts of the whole of the people. A lot of people will have to suffer. A lot of people have to suffer from this < 'Jll\ cnion loan. Hundreds of small sub­st 1 ibc-rs \Yho l,,tve put their all into the Com­nwn·c.-~~lth loans have to suffer to a tremen­dous cxteut. \V e know that; but we are c ·lh l upon to mctke the conversion-not in their interest,;, not in the interests of the Go­YNnmcnts, but in the national interest; and that is what we have to look at in Queens­land. '\Vhat can we do in the national interest 1 \re we going to do it, or are we going to funk it and run aw.1y? "Whatever happcLs, we h>tve to do what is right in the national interest if we think it is our duty to go through with it irrespective of sec­tiom.

Go·; ;lX~lENT MEMBERS: Hear, hear!

J\Ir. O'KEEFE (GaiTns) [8.49]: I wish to offer wy congratulations to the m-over and seconder of the motion for the adoption of the Address in Reply. During the speech of the Premier I interjected that there was a waste of public money in the appointment of a rerLtin commiPsion novv touring various parts of the State inquiring into land settle­ment. I have no intention of withdrawing that interjection, and I state definitely that, so far as the appointment of one member of that commission is concerned, there was a waste of public money. We have men in the public servi-ce quite capable of carrying out that duty in conjunction with other public

Mr. O'Keefe.]

352 Address in Reply. [ASSEMBLY.] Address in Reply.

serYa 1HS without the nec2ss:ity for incurring furthcc o:penditllrc. That is why I inter­jected as to the waste of public money. I kno'v that the man who was tukc.n fro1n out­side ''"'b placed there because the Govern­ment \Yonted to keep a member of the Forcstrv lloard off the con1n1ission.

~lr. kExXY: What rot!

::\Ir. O'KEEFE: I say that definitely, Lccan.se Il1Cinborti of the Government l)arty aro prc:"~ing the Gon.:-rnment to take over certain !nnc\s in North Queensland now h:,ld bv the Fore' trv Dcpo.rtmunt for their own pl·iva te interes£s.

c\[r. KEx:w : Not at all.

At 8.52 p.m., The CHAIR~'IAT OF CO:.\L\IlTTEES (:.'\lr. Roberts,

Brtst Toozcoomba) rclieve.d Mr. Speaker in rho cha.ir.

::\Ir. O'KEEFE: That is the position. If the GGvcr __ nlent \n:>ro fair to the Forestry Department, they would have placed on the coJnmission one of th~ Forestry ofiicers vYho would haYe known something about Queens­land gener ."·lly; and it is a reflection on the officers of that' denartment for the J'1·er-ricr to say that there \vas no one in the depart­ment whom he could place in that position, Dr words to that effect.

I also i~~·~rjcctcd during the Prc~nier's speech about the Go\ ern1nent not having done their duty by bringing about a reduc­tion in costs to our industries by doing sonic­thing in regard to shipping charges. Last year I stwke on the matter of the harbour boards beiug allowed to do their own stove­daring and hRndling their own cargo< s. I claim that there is R waste of public money in regard to the harbours of Quecnsland, the saving of >vhich would do much to solve the unemployment problem. I brought under the notice of the Premier a few wenks ago certain charges made- by the shipping cam­panic:, in cmmection with the sugar indus-

.. tr:v. sho,oring that certain sums of money >Yore paid into the coffers of the shipping comrJ.uics which could be well spent on the R.•ilway Department.

The PmmiER: I have a reply to that-I got it to-day.

Mr. O'KEEFE: Professor Brigden has been inquiring into these charges. Wlo.en he was in Cairns, replying to the deputation from the members of the Cairns Harbour Board, he stated that that board had placed a very good case before him ; yet, when he went to Townsvi!le and met the harbour board there, he told them that the Tu \ly sugar going to Townsville was going to its natural port. My experience in that part of the world is that the Railway Department is losing something like £30,000 per annum by not taking the South Johnstone and Tully sugar to Cairns-its natural harbour. The Railway Department is closing down work­shops throughout the State, reducing the number of employees and reducing wages, and. at the same t'ime giving an extension of hours on the ground that they have no revenue.

The PREMIER: Don't you know that the sugar is paid for from the time it is put on the boat?

Mr. O'KEEFE : I understand the sugar is paid for when it is placed on the boat; but the railway is where the sugar is being manufactured, but it is not utilised in carry-

[Mr. O'Keefe.

ing the cargo to the lL tur ,l port. rflw cargo is handed over to private enterprise, and the indllskv suffers. You can rake the Tully sugar to Cairns for 10s. per ton less thau you can take it to Townsville. The idea of this Gov-errnnent and of previous Govern~ menh. is to get as n1uch revenue for th<J railwa'"· at the cost of the industrv--that is ,,-hy it is tal,cn to Townsville, a d;stancco of 45 miles.

The I'R~:nrr:R: I\o, it is not.

:.\Ir. O'ICEEFI~: If .you arc out to ass1::,t the industry with the r~ailvv.ays, why penalise tho inclusb-y with these high charges!

The PRE}!IER : 'Ne do not. They can send it w herevor they liko.

Mr. O'KEEFE: The shipping charges are worth consideration bv the Govcrnm.ont so far as the suga:r and ... tin1ber industrie-j arc concerned. Hon. members on both sidr; claim that &omething should be done for our great tirnbcr iadustry. \Ye have n1e1nbers b' hind the Govcrnmtnt trying to force the Government's :1and with the Forestry Dc~pnrtmont in regard to the red_uction of tlw royalties; but no effort is bemg made vvith rega rc1 to the cl~ trges rnade by tht: shippir1g companies at the Y.arious ports C?'f Queensla ncl. The har hour boards and then· machinery belong to the people. They are a public utility handed over to private ent?r­priF,,; to rnake rnoney at the expense of t. tiC indus· ry and of the people working in it.

Take, for instance, the charges imposed by the Adelaide Shipping Company. For handling sugar ex truck to ship, which n1ca?s that it comes alongside the ship, on<C rmil pays 2s. per ton a~ Bowen, a second 1_niil at Bowon pays nothmg, whrls't at TtcYo:\1sn!le. pl'ior to this inquiry, they were chargrng ls. 3d., and at Cairns 6d. After some agitation had taken place by various people in the North-the Cairns Harbour Board for one and I as member for the district concerned-we find them sending the sugar from Tully to Townsville, and _we lind the directors of the Tully mill runnmg down to Townsville and bringing about a reduction of charges by the Adelaide Ship­ping Company and the Townsville Harbour Board, which meant something like £1,500 a year to the Tully mill. That goes to sh.ow that in years pe.st this mjll has been paymg too much for the handlmg of sugar.

The same thing applies to the handling of timber. I wrote letters to the press and to the Cairns Harbour Board pointing out these anomalies. The shipping companies had reduced the charges for handling sawn timber ex truck to ship from 1s'. 3d. per 100 superficial feet to 6d.-a reduction of 9d. These high charges have been going _on for years ; yet the Government arc bemg forced by their supporters on the back benches to reduce the royalty charges, which will only hit the public purse. Their S!JP· porters never have any idea of at~ackmg private concerns whic~ are over-chargmg. the industry. The handlmg of logs at Ca1rns by the Adelaide Shipping Company is also worthy of consideration by the Government. The company charges the producer s'om?­thing like 1s. 3d. per lOO feet, whereas rt costs it something under 3d.

We have also the charges on maize from the Atherton Tableland. The Atherton maizegrowers, who mostly consist of returned soldiers, have to pay no less than 6s. for

[iS AUGL:ST.] Address ·in Reply. 353

the F:llne amonnt of l:ar· :.11ing) tl1c- same tunount et s't:1cking-, r1 nd tho sarnc a1r.onnt o£ labour Hl \7hid1 tho gro~;vcr rr01 s for foe Bngr~ r " 20 hir.I:h '' iu }:hod. G~,-c,rnn1cnt ;-:-hoi~Ll , nch a to tako pl<:r(•. Tl l B. '1k has to flnrl lJlO er :'::-· 1·1 pclp}e on the \ t!Jc ton u an~ gru~ving n1a1ze ..,-et priYatc concera impo ·' thl '2 ch<U _rr'~ on their C'Ol"Yi~ rnoditi_ -.--chnrgc -,yhich arc lJrOYPcl beyond a dm1llt to be If the,~ cotdd sec t.h: ir \\DV ~r to J the ~chan::.·c-3 to tLc 'l\dh- nlill thP v~ a·y I hrn e dc~erib'ed. the Go\·(r~·_rn r~i ~-hould gO fur~hcr into tLc rnatt ::r, and .::oe that people ln other indus­tri_•s g:t a Liir doa1.

The ;laib.-..:a D,_.~nnxtmcnt 1~ throu~:h }ts 1-uolicy~ of thro crr1ployrncct. I ~he ed £30.0QQ COllld be g:titH'd handiing of sug>lr.

losing rt:.)vt.:nun n1on out of

1·: "\Y h('fl'

on t.hc

The TREA~l~RER: If you .,.\~ ~ .~ rctn l' fol· R::til1;,ay'', the counb·y ,·,ould l=·~ save'd.

JHr. O'KEEFE: Tho countt-y would be saved if the hon. gc;ntleman got up in the pulpit and preached .n sermon.

;I fr. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order ~

Mr. O"KEEFE: The Secretarv for Rail­wavs has refused to con' ev ce{·tain cattle by· rail, which means that· he is prepared to close Co,~,n certain railwa v lines and ra:il­\Yay \Yorhhops and dopriv·e the State of revenue. A 111onth or ~o ag·o a cattle-grovver ''"ho resides not far from my hon1e stated that L0 had offered from 600 to 800 steers for con1.?0ya.ncc by rail, bnt the Comrnissioner infor<wd him that he could not handle them althow;h th· por ·on had offered 50 per cent. nbove the droving charges. To "".,.hat position arc the railwa:rs tnking ns, and how arc \Ye to comtwto with o:rtside traffic if that ettituclc is <tdoptecl 1 Is it any wonder thut the railw'lys arc l0· ing a considerable amount of reYL'nuc, and is It <1nv wonder that hunM dreds of nwn are being. throc• n out of the raihv?-7 ~crYice v.·hcm thi;;; great transport m[lclllrn cannot handlE' cntt1e even at 50 per C'cnt. in exf'P~s of the drovinr.; char:se:,? Anpnrc:1tl:v the'e n1nttcrs cscap0d the notico of the ('.,_biJwt. Apparentlv Ministers are Eatic:flr>cl Q(l long- as they can .c)j.;:mi!,'> en1plovccs and thereby s· .. ·ell the· army of unemployn·d.

I want to enter my sl.r<;ng protest against so many 111en being d1::::m1ssed, and to draw pointed attention to the number of families in v.-nnt to~da:7 • There is no chance 'vhat­pyer for a single man to obtain f'mployment. He .must continue to walk from one police statton to another so ns to obtain a ration ticket entitling him to 5s. worth of rations per wee!,:.

I want to chaw the attention of the Secre­tary for R.ailwa,-s to the great amount of revcnu · that is hcing lost became the depart­ment Ts u1•able tn cornpct0 '' ith the on bide mcthncls of tr.orw1ort. H,-, has rofnsed to placP ft:()!lf'V at tile dis::-JCr"lf!] of lorn.l nntbo­ritin.; 1'1 '\'o:th Qnf'ens1and bcc:n' .c the 1noney '";nnld be 0~~p011d"d unon thD rt>nrdrincr of a roa rl that n1ip.J1t compete with the raii-Wa\ ~,. T ,,-ant to rPinind him that traffif' i-= t:"oinQ' over thP'iC bl'oken roads, and j, the trcdc from the Rr>ilway J)C'narhllE'nt 0 tl1c motnT', svstf'rn is n1n~·h chPapC'r tJ1an thB f!:YC''1t rAilwaY systen1. I want to repeat that the rail·way system is

1931·-Z

tonablc to handle ca,tt!e cYcn at 50 per cent. .aboYo droving charges. and the same thing , pplies more or k s to merchandise. The Governrnent should give serious attention to the amendment of the law relating to har­bour boards in this State. We have too many harbour boards controlling haroours constructed in unsUitable places.

Tho PHE)liEH: I quite f~gree with you.

}fr. is to become of all these shall we be able to &cijust to the Trea3ury? .About invested in httr··

work-:; Dt To· :::.nd Cairns, :yet arc 1i;tle ports ~uny1ping at tho throat big ports and killing industry by the

of hi~h charges. The Harbour Board~~ .. l.cts sllould be arrH'ndr~d with a view t,y ;:1ving icJ harbour boards to handle cargo in own ports. if they think it neces to do so. If that power is con-ferr-ed, may not be noces•ary for it to bG e:o:c 1'C'i· _,d; but the pffcct of hnxing it in the Act wili act tts a check on the charges of the shipping companies. Why should the St~te spend millions of pounds of the people's money to gi,-c facilities at ports to handle cargo and then hand the whole coH­trol of th t cargo over to the shipping com­paniPs. These shipping companies are making ~L prof~t of 10 per cent. on all labout· they employ on the wharvc, in addition to their own charges. I have ventilated this matter in the prPss in the :'-Jorth. The Ade­hidc Steam•hip Company, which handles the· Korthcrn shipmc:nts cf sugar, has already rodnr ;cl its a ~·cnC.J' char;"'c- on sugar that is handled by the sugar conveyors from 6cl. to 3d. p~r ten-a reducticn of 50 per cent. That rt~dnction wt:..s not made urltil reduc­tion~ \Y< re m ,de at Town3v-illo: a~1d then f :.111~lrtr rC'c1uctions hnd to be 1nade at Cajrn..:: to brin~ both pnrt." i11to 1in'3. The Govern­ment should make the amendment I advo­c<~t'e, as 1t '' 111 .a.s:s:,,t ihr sugar industry a-::.1d nr-:,vcnt it being robbed hv cc rtain idereo;ts. Th<) port authorities at vYcllingtcn and Fre­nH1lltlc }- ·tnd1C' all the stevedoring arra.ngc­rncnts at tho G ports ·.,,·ith success. The fol­Jo,\Ting C

1U't t;on 1n a spe0ch b, Mr. Ste·~.ren'

ihe secrdary of the harbour board at Fremar>tlc, at the fir'·t interstate hctrbour ccdercn"c held in ]\'fell· mrne on 21st Octo­ber, 1916, is illumir~atinr;:-

"Our system, TYir. Chairman, has been in oncration for tweh-e years a"'d six montiB to-clav. an-d I sav with absolute confld.,nce tr1:ot it is the. best system in ;\ nstralia, and is g1vin~ absolU.tC' sati~­fflction to the rr.nrchant, and although they will not adm!t it openly, I believe also t:o the shipping companies. (Hear. hc-ou !) \Vhrn I was visiting Melbourne on previm~:, Ofcasions, Mr. I-Iolden aDd I had , .:Yeral con.-ersations on this impor~ant matter, and J\Ir. Holden will remember, no c!oubt, that ho told me on ono occ::tsion that the j'>-felhournrc Trust had asked the Fremantle Chamber of Conunercc for an cxprr~:-ion of opinion ns ~o ho'>I the Frcrnantle system wa;; vvorking, and had received the reply ihat it was rmsa.ti,:factory, and that the eh 1 nlbe·r \vou1d v.:clcon1c a r,_ turn to the r~r0v1nu- lv ·exl::.;t1n·:::; svsL:n1. bv \Yhich Hw ~hjppinv · cornpanics ~·ont~·o!le{1 tlio shed" nnrl {hlivcred the eerg-o. I told l'llr. Holden nt the time tlnt I was not -ur­prised at this reply, for the reason that the chamber that gaye it wa3 vot, in my

:'Jr. O'Kceft.]

:354 Address in Reply. [ ASSElVIBL Y.] Address in Reply.

opH1JOl1, to be expected to give a really unbiased opinion, us it \Va:3 COlnposr:d so largr•ly of shippi11g agi·nts, who had preYiously bad this ·work in their O\Vn hand,;, and hccving lost it through their refusal to mcl't the merchants as they desired to be n1t t were angry with the harbour tru t for having taken the work oYer. The ugonts and local representa~ ti', of the ~hlpping comvJ,nic_, at Fre­mantle, ecpecialiy the interstate com­panies, have never quite despaired of regaining this 'vork, but they have lost it for ever at our port at Fremantle, which, after all, is almost purely a port·, and to a very small extent either a con­suming or distributing centre. There are only two or three merchants' houses left, nearly all having some years ago located their headquarters at Perth; so that the shipping interest is easily the dominating feeture of the Fremantle Chamber of Commerce."

Again-., That is the opinion of the parent

commercial body in \V estorn Australia. and I submit that the opi11ion is unequi­vocating and definite. In fact, it admits of no arg1.1-n1ent whatever. The reasons which led to the Fremantle Harbour Trust taking this work upon its shoul­ders are, shortly, as follow :-\Vhen the trust came into being in ,J anu.try, 1903. it found a portion of the cargo work of the port beir:g carried out by the Rail­way Department very much in the same manner as is done ut Jlf lbournc in regard to c1 rgo \Yorked frmn aud to ships berthed at Port :\Iclbourne piers, and the remainder bci:1g done by inter­state companies' local agents and by stcYcdorcs. The same eternal squabble wtts going on bebc:ccn the shipping co1n~ panic~ nnd the rncrchant, and no one was taking r-esponsibility in the stage between the ship and the owner of th0 goods. T!1e trust, ns soon as it found its feet. ondcn~oured to fmd a e:Jlution of the trouble, at the same t-irno announc­ing that its policy l,'"Us not to come between the two parties. A strong "nde.~•;our ;yas made to bring the parties into lino. a·, the cornmis~ioncrs as cuc.;­todians of the port recognised it as their duty to cndenyour to straighten nud'ter3 out. As a matter of fad. while this w:" going- on, a depubtion, consisting of merchants of Perth and Fremantle. '· a1tcd on the cmnmissioners, ar..d asked them if they could not by some meaets take charge of the cargo and relieve the state of cquabblo and di"'atisfaction existing. The commissioners then called a conference of all the representatives of the shipowners operating in 'Western Australia, and discussed the matter with them; the commissioners asked were th<l shipowners willing to extend the con­ditions of the bill of lading to the delivery doors of tha sheds, and the answer was, 'No.' The reply of the Harbour Trust Commissioners to this was, '\Vel!, we do not v, ant to take over the work, but if you will not do this and meet the merchants' request, we will have to do it. We do not want to, but it is being forced upon us.' The shipowners were asked before an irrevoc~ble decision was come to if they would have a conference with the mer­chants to try and arrive at some satis-

[2!fr. O'Keefe.

factory de::i- ;on. 1ThPv held t\YO co11fer cnccs , to get her, but iL- y and tho rnc~r· chan:, b'1ck in a bodY nnd infonno({ tJ1e Corn{ni_;sionprs the-v \YE?re any rlPci_,:on at alL 'The then ;,aid, 'Tho po:"j-tioa ~ n forc0d upon us, and \V--~ E1n t take the work OYor.' Bo, fron1 the lsl !\fay, 1904. the harbum has assurncd the \r hole control, the svs-tezn \Yill never now bo departed frmn.~"

That only goes to prove that the ·! tem of harbou1 beards handling thci r goods and doing their O\'. n cYedoring j8 r:nuch 1noro satisfactory to all coC>cerncd, nnd espc, [ally lightens the charges to tho industry.

At 9.13 p.m., Mr. SPEAKER resumed the chair.

Mr. O'KEEFE: At Fremantle and Wel­lington the people concerned would not alter the position.

A few years ago the Commonwealth Go­vernment had >tn examination made on the ports of Australia by no less noted an expert than Sir Gcorgo 13uchanan, who is recognised as the greatest port engineer in the world, and I propose to quote the following extract from a work entitled "VVorld Ports":-

" EXTRACT FHOl\1 REPORT ON TRANSPORT IN AcSTHALIA ITH SPECHL HEFERENCE TO PonT AND HARBOUR FAciLITIES, BY SIR GEORGE BUCHAXAN, K.C.I.E., KT., OF 16 V IC'l'ORIA STnEET, W ESniiNSTEn, Locmox, S.vV., 9TH OcTOBER, 1926.

"462. The Harbour authorities have undertaken to perform the functions of

harlingers. Exports are recnivcd and ~tort:cl ready for plach:!g on bon.rd ships, and similarly imports arc taken out of ships, stored after sorting, and deliYered to consignees; rcccipt3 are grrrntcd to exporters and to ships for cargoes receiYcd, and in all ways the authorities accept full responsibility for safe storage and corn•ct ch-liv 1·ie--. Thi..:. ;:.;J '::tt H1, I consider, doe; much to establish the port as an efficiently conducted concern, A port authority respo•rsible for cargoes until they reach consignees or the ships con,-cying- thcrn a vvay naturally vvill do its utmost to expedite deliveries by care­ful stowing. A system of storing by consignees' marks do0"' a\Yay with the confusion that is so much hoard of in ports where little or no attention is paid to this most important detail. I gathered, at Fremantle. that importance is attached to this method of storage, and that, in consequence. the forty-eight hours allowed for deliveries after completion of a ship's discharge was found to be sufficient. It has been noted that the Royal Commis­sion on \Vater Frontage in South Aus­tralia suggested a provjsiou in the Harbours Act con' tituting the harbour authorities wharfmgers. If every port authority in Australia undertook wharfingering. the gain to trade would be incalculable,

"NoTE.-This paragraph refers to the system of the Fremantle Harbour Trust. This trust some twenty years ago, as the result of extensive inquiries made into the working of the Wellington Harbour Board's systew in handling goods from ship's elings to consignee's vehicle, adopted 'in toto the Wellington Harbour Board's system of handling cargo, and, therefore, the Fremantle system referred

AddTess in Reply. [18 AUGUST.] Address in Reply. 355

to is the ·Wellington Harbour Board system originall:v adopted almost from its inception in 1881."

That report shows the great cost incurred in the handling of the products of our indus­tries in Australia, and Sir Gcorge Buchanan rcc,)mmcnded th1t each and every Harbour Board in Australia would be Y.'ise if it fol­lm> ed the sy otcm adopted by the \V ellington Harbour Board and the Fremantle Trust and controlled its own stevedores. Thou­sands of pounds have been lost to industry through th0 high prices charged at these ports; yet the cargo is handled by machinery that belongs to the people. These boards borrovv· money, create port~·, and provide every facility for the handlin ·( of th<> cargo, and then the whole business is handed over to shipping companies to exoloit the indus­tries. In spite of this, we he~r nothing from the Government of any proposal to put a stop to these practices, and I recommend the Premier to follow the advice of Sir George Buchanan and give the harbour boards authority, if thev so desire to do their owp stevcdoring. In that way' he will relieve mdustry of a considerable burden. The people in industrv are askin~ for this relief. The Sccretarv for Mines k';,ows that what I say io true bcca,use he was a membPr ,of the Cairns Harbour Board for many yrors, and he knows the trouble we have had in regard to the handling of cargo at the d1ffe;cnt wharve·"· The charges are too high for mdustry to carry. \Vh<·'l thine's were booming, perhaps we could afford to over­look these charges, but to-dav. when ,, e arc looking for avenues in which t~ reduce exnen­diture, and when \VC are a~king the worirers to submit to t_he reduction of wag~'S, why '"ot also look mto some of the big things that count? In this connection 1 wish to quote a rciJort of a meeting held bv the Coirns I-Iarbonr Board n f~,v davs 2go, ;Yhich ,ctppt:'ared in the "Cairn'S Tinu;~ "-·

" At the Cairns Harbour Board's monthly meetinr; yesterday the following ldter was rcce1ved from the secretarv ti~ber industry achL,ory committe~: I3nsb;:tnc:-

' It is desired to draw vour attention to my communication of ·15th June last requesting that cm"ideration be given to a r~duction in tho handling charges at Ga1rns. In explAnation of this request, I wish to point out that the CO!!'l!Jittee is unanimously of the opmwn t~at the main avenues open for the drsposal of our timber is in tlw South, but it will be necessary to sell at competitive prices to obtain' the !Tiarket. Your co-operation b:v reduc­mg these charges would considerablv help the timber industry, and would more than be covered by the, increased traffic to the Southern States. I shoul.-1. be. pleased to receive your advice on th1s matter as early as possible. Mr. T. R. Hall, sc'iretary of the board, reported as foLows: -The b 1ard do not control the handling charges at this port, but they recentl:v reduced the horbour dues on log timber to 9d. per 100 s. feet, abolishing the craneage d_ucs. I~ was resolYed to advise the tirnbPr mdustry advisory committee accordingly."

'\f any people in the industry, and appar­f'nth· the·'e people do not know that the harbour boards have no power to control the

banl~ling of their C3rg-JeS. rrhey \VrOte to the bruboui' ho,u~d in Cairns roccntlv com­rJlaiHing, and stating that, if the "tirnbcr indu tr·y "\Yas goi:;_ig to be assisted in any way, the tran::port churgcs 1nust be reduced; and they have inYited the bo:trd to make those rcductiot s. The Cairns Hr:rbo tr Board or any c,clJ:_:: l:,tl'bonr board in Queensland can­not nHl. any L'duction bee a u~e they do not handle cargo. It is th~ duty of tho Go­,·crnmont to enable them to do so eo that there will not be dud control. As there is uo po· er ~i,·on to harbour boards to handle cargo, tb<::re mnst lJc an amendment of the Act. It is the people's utility, and it should bt, the duty of the lnrbonr board, which is (tppointed by the people, to handle the whole of the cargo of the industries concerned.

I was pointing out that many of the people in the industry believe that the harbour ~JOards are the trouble ; but it is the ship­ping cornpanies. At Cairns the shipping cornpanies are summoning the waterside ·, orkcrs for going on leave to take their annual holiday. Those workers are being brought before the court, and their organisa­tion has been summoned to answer the charges. The shipping companies are also asking for a reduction of wages. ·whilst th,so people arc handling our cargoes, using public utilities in doing so, and making 10 per cent. on all wages that they pay, besides their stacking and other handling charges, they have not reduced the cost to the indus­tries one iota. The people on the Tableland c'ugaged in the tirnbcr industry arc continuN ally uEking the Govcrnn1cnt to reduce tho roynlty charges bec&uso the Government arc a [~ood milking cow for them. They never seem to go any further than the public purse. It ic up to the Government to wake those people np, and show them that there are other intcrc-,ts to be ;:,pproached besides tho Go..-crnrnent. The transport charges at the present time arc killing the industry. The l're-nicr said to-night that interc t was the killer-and intcrc,,t ha.s been the killer in the past-but we arc overcoming that by degrees. I. 't us take a step further and h~~ndlc this great public transport rnachinery. \Yhere it is possible for the machinery of our harbour boards to be handled by the public themseh·es let it be done. Let us take the two ports I mentioned earlier, and the whole of Queensland will benefit by doing so. The shipping companies did not reduce their charges until I made mvsclf felt in Cairns lately in connection with those charges, which action brought a benefit of £1,500 to the Tully sugar-millers. The shipowners are ;.sking the Industrial Court at the present time for a reduction of the wages of these workers, thereby creating greater trouble for the GoYernment to cope with at a later date.

If the Government, by putting into opera­tion the Act I have mentioned, gave power to our own people on the harbour board to handle tho cargoes and handle the men, it would bo more satisfactory to the men thcms'elves and to the benefit of the industry and the State as a whole. vVe have hundreds of thou ands of pounds owing by these boards to the Trcasur2r; and under present con­ditions >rhat chance have they of meeting the interest on that debt? So far we have been lucky at C:tirns and 'To'' nsville in meet­ing our interest and re-demption; but what. "bout other boards in the South, which do not meet their obligations to the Treasurer? Until such time as' the harbour boards are enabled to handle the cargoes instead of

1J1r. O'Keefe.]

356 Questions. [ASSE:'IiBLY.]

the shi:1ping co:11panics, and thereby to earn more l'<:ven;rc. I canEot great chance of their meeting their

I have already s<tid, we have tho Ado­Shipping Company taki11g action

the "\Yuter; idc \YOrkers in Cairns. 1825 had some trouble on the ,,-ater-

front ~here. It mnv ha ·;o l· •n the fault of tl1c mcn-I will · the shippin;· com-paHi:s the benc~:t argun1cnt, if it will do them then n bout clcYen to follow

haYO

rnanago~

six Years th· •:o rnen \V0l:C' in

lHlYC to ren1en1bcr that, if a a crirnc and SQrYcs his c-ntenco

so soon ns he rc;!,'ains his he can go an1ongst th2 }lr'Ople, and

noLody h 0 ~ a. right to pun~sh hirn P.'!ain frJl' that offence. But thcs·e men are p:'nn lisod ~and they are apparcnt.l:- going to be penalised for eYer-beca use, according to the 1n~~1_agcn1cnt o{ the cotnpany, thnF did ~~mneth1ng Y~Ton-:~ in 1925. The result is that pcoplp with little children to feed arc beg­ging for work in the sir ~cts of Cairns at the present time. ·

Mr. SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. mem­ber ha' ••xhnu-tcd the time allowed him under the Standing 01·dcrs.

Mr. S\VAY:\"E (.1Iirani): I beg to moYo the adjoummcnt of the debate.

QueBtion put and passed. Rr umption of debate made <>n Order of

the Day for to-morrow. The House adjourned at 9.28 p.m.

Question.".