Queensland

Parliamentary Debates [Hansard]

Legislative Assembly

TUESDAY, 11 SEPTEMBER 1894

Electronic reproduction of original hardcopy

1510 AdJournment. [ASSEMBLY.] Cost of Pilot Vesseel.

LEGISLATIVE ASSEMBLY.

TUESDAY, 11 SEPTEllBER, 1894.

The SPEAKER took ,the chair at half-past 3 o'clock.

PETITIONS. Co-OPERATIVE CoMli!UNiriEs.

Mr. BELL presented a p~titionfrom members of the Monmouth Co~operative Group, asking for certain amendments in the Co-operative Com­munities Land Settlement Act.

Petition received. FOREIGN SEAMEN AND THE LABOUR TRAFJ!'IO. Mr. ANN EAR presented a petition from forty­

two foreign seamen who had been naturalised in Queensland, praying for the removal of the dis­abilities with regard to their accompanying South Se;t Island labour vessels.

Petition read and received. Mr. ANNEAR presented a petition from

ninety-eight electors of Maryborough in support of the above.

Petition read and received. ALLEGED ORDER FOR LEG-IRONS. On Mr. McDONALD giving notice of the

following questions :-1. What was the number ol log-irons ordered by the

Government during the last two months, and what dateP

2. liave any of the said leg-irons been sent from Brisbane; if so, to what district?

3. \Vho were the contractor or contractors? 4. ''rhat was the price per pair of the said leg-irons?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY (Hon. H. Tozer) said : I c•m answer that at once. None that I am aware of.

Mr. GLASSEY: Yon will be surprised to see a sample of them in the Assembly to-day.

QUESTIONS. CLOSE SEASON FOR NATIVE BIRDS.

Mr. GROOM asked the Colonial Secretary-1. "\Vho is responsible for the administration of the

Native Birds Protection ActP 2. By whose advice has the close season for native

birds on the Darling Downs been rec0ntly altered from August to November?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied­!. The Governor in Council. 2. The close season has not been recently altered in

regard to the Darling Downs alone. 'rhe quail season there 'vas altered from August to October, principally upon a petition signed by seventy re~idents of the Darling Downs, and pret..ented by the hon. member himself. In 11ay last application was made to the Premier at Townsville for some modification of the various close sea·40lls in force in different portions of the colony. This was submitted totheXative Birds Protection Association of Quecnslaud, whose advice was adopted on all points, >ave as to the time of the CQmmencement of the close season.

STRAY HoRSES AND CATTLE. Mr. CHATAWAY asked the Colonial Secre·

tary-Is it the intention of the Government to introduce

a Bill for the purpose of giving local authorities greater powers in dealing with the nuisance and dangers from horses and cattle straying in the streets r

The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied­Yes.

COST OF PILOT VESSELS. On the motion of the HoN. J. R. DICKSON,

it was resolved-That there be laid on the table of the House a retmn

showing-1. The original cost of the pilot schooner " Governor

Cairns." 2. The cost of maintenance year by year. 3. The dates of repairs, and the amounts so expended

annually.

J!eaoe Preservation Bill. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Peace Preservation Bill. 511

4. The estimated cost of repairs now required to render the vessel serviceable.

5. 'l'he date when a survey of this vessel was last made by a Lloyd's surveyor, or other surveyor inde­pendent of the Port Office.

tL The original cost of the pHot steamer n.A.dvance." 7. The cost of maintenance year by year. 8. The dates and amounts expended in cost of repairs.

TOWNSVILLE SCHOOL OF ARTS BILL. On the motion of Mr. OGDEN, this Bill was

introduced and read a first time.

PEACE PRESERVATION BILL. RESUMPTION m' COMMITTEE.

Question-That clause 1, "Short title," stand part of the Bill-put.

The PREMIEH. (Hon. H. lVI. Nelson) rose to ask the Committee, after the long discussion that had already taken place on the clause, to confine the debate to matters Rtrictly relevant to the clause. He believed an understanding was arrived at by which a very large amount of latitude was allowed when the clause was first proposed on Friday evening ; but he thought all claim to latitude in accordance with that under­standing had been exhausted, and he hoped the Committee was now in a frame of mind to go on with business. The clause itself was of a formal character. ]~very Bill had a long title and a short title. The short title was useful as a handy reference ; it did not describe the nature or contents of the Bill. The lm:ig title was a matter that was always decided after the Bill had passed the third reading. If any hon. member had any objection to the short title he ought to move an amendment upon it. Any verbal amendment would be quite in order and worthy of debate. After the length of the debate already, it was their duty to strictly adhere to the Standing Orders, and only dis­cu~s matters purely relative to the clause before them.

Mr. PO\VERS was glad the Premier had tltken the Bill in hand, because the last time they met the Colonial Secretary referred to it as a Bill to give him increased powers, and he was afraid that the whole thing was going to be handed over to the Colonial Secretary. A long discussion had taken place, and they had practi­cally had a second-reading debate on the 1st clause in committee. The Attorney-General had admitted that the Bill was divided into three important parts, and he wanted to know if the Government were going to insist upon pas;,ing the whole of it, or whet her the dis­cussion had shown such a light on the subject as might cause them to modify their intentions. The matter had now been opened up to the country, and he had received a telegram from Rockhampton to the effect that an indig­nation meeting had been held there, and a resolution carried stating that the Bill was a shameful and unwarranted infringement of the liberty which was the birthright of every British subject. The meeting called upon the members for the district to resist to the last extremity the passing of the .Bill. That was a meeting of citizens who had had a chance of reading the debate ; but even if that had no effect upon the Premier, he would ask him if, after what had taken place in the House, the Government insisted upon carrying the Bill in the form in which it was introduced.

The PREMIER said the Bill consisted of three parts-the first comprised clauses 3, 4, 5, and 6, which dealt with the matter of carrving arms. The second part included clauses 7, "s, 9, 10, 11, and 12, and dealt with making inquiries ; and the third comprised clauses 13, 14, and 15, which gave the Government power to arrest and detain, and to issue proclamations. The Govern­ment did not insist upon carrying the Bill iu its

exact shape. That was a position no Govern­ment should take up. The Bill must be subject to reasonable debate, and the Government were willing, even anxious, to receive amendments which might tend to improve it. The hon. member for Maryborough had gh·en notice of many amendments, which were entitled to the fullest debate, even if they were not accepted. He asked the Committee again to be satisfied with 11 reasonable debate, and nothing more. They should not waste more time over matters that had been decided.

Mr. GLASSEY was surprised at the haste ilf the Premier in trying to pass the Bill into law. They had only received copies of the Bill on \Vednesday, and had seen that it was of a most exceptional and extraordinary character, and would practically suspend the Constitution of the colony.

The PREMIER : I muet ask that the hon. member be requested to confine his remarks to the clause before the Committee.

'l'he CHAIRMAN" : Considerable latit11de was allowed to the Colonial Secretary and other hem. m;lmbers on l~riday, and as the hon. member for Burke did not speak upon that occasion I think a little latitude might be allowed to him also.

Mr. GLASSEY said the second rew:!ing of the Bill came on on Thnrsday and was carried in a most extmordinary manner on Friday morning. He presumed the Premier did not wish to legis­late in the dark or to pass the rueasure until the country had some knowledge of its provisions. 'l'he country was now getting some insight aq to the intention of the Government as expressed by the Bill, and was considerin!l" the matter. In a measure of so exceptional a character it was only fair to ask that the fullest latitude should be allowed for its discussion. There was nothing that more conclusively showed the warm interest felt in the Bill than the telegram which had just bee.n read by the bon. member for Maryborongh. In addition to that, one of the largest and !J;ost representative meetings ever held in Brisbane was held last nic;bt in condemnation of the Bill. Some of the papers said the meeting was chieflv composed of workerB. He (.Mr. Glassey) had been present at many public meetings during the ten years ho had been in the colony, and he could ,;ay that he had never seen a nwre representative, a nwreorderly, or a. more determined meeting to pre,;erve the rig-hts and libertie~ of the people in any part of the country. It was a proof that the people were watching with intense intere8t the debatB that was taking place, and for that reason alon.e it was not unfair to ask that the gre;ctest poss1ble latitude should be given to critici"e every provi­sion in the Bill. '!.'ben, if the Bill became Jaw­which it should not if he cc>uld do anything to prevent it-the Government could not be charged with having shown undue haste, and by mere force of rumbers, in passing the Bill into law. On Friday the Colonial Secretary produced a man--

The CHAIRMAN: I do not think the hon. member will be in order in discussing the map or anything else that may have been introduced into the Committee. The hon. member himself madfl a most exhaustive speech during the second reading of the Bill, and I must ask him now to confine himself to the quPstion before the Com­mittee. If the hon, member persists I trust he

. will ask permi"sion of the Committee to proceed in the course he seems to intend to adopt. I am only here to do my duLy, and I wish to do it with fairness to both sides.

Mr. GLASSEY s1id that while not wishing to hamper the' Chairman in the faithful discharge of his duties, he thom;ht it was not unreasonable to be permitted to refer to the map produced on Friday by the Colonial Secretary. He wished

512 Peace Preservation Rill. [ASSEMBLY.] Peace Preservation Bill.

to point out that the disturbances that had occurred at the places marked on the map had been exagll"erated to a very considerable extent. He was gomg to show that there was nothing so simple as to produce a large sheet of paper and put on it dabs of red and black ink, with the view to frighten hon. members who had not followed those disturbances as closely as some other hon. members had done ; and that it might have a tendency to influence them unduly in the hasty passage of the measure. He had no hesita­tion in saying that the map was intended to influence members of the Committee to an extent that was not warranted by what had actually taken place--

The PREMIER: I rise to a point of order. The hon. member is not obeying your ruling.

The CHAIRMAN: I have already pointed out to the hon. member that his remarks ::tre not relevant to the question bef<)re the Committee, and I must ask him again to confine his remarks to that.

Mr. GLASSEY said it was surely not an unfair thing that members should be permitted to reply to remarks made by the Colonial Secretary--

The PREMIER: I must again ask you if the hon. member is in order.

The CHAIRMAN : It is a painful position for me to be placed in, but I must warn the hon. member that if he persists I shall have to ask him to discontinue his speech. If the hon. mem­ber continues to disregard the ruling of the Chair there is no other course left open for me. I must again, and for the last time, ask him to confine his remarks to the question, that clause 1 stand part of the Bill.

Mr. FISHER thought that the fullest con­sideration should be given to the clause, which opened up the whole question. The Bill was called the "Peace Preservation Bill," but they had it on the authority of the ex-Chief Justice of the colony that that was not tlce proper title, and that the Bill would not effect the object aimed at. He thought they should view the clause with the utmost calmness, and without bias of any kind. Although they might differ as to the way to preserve peace, he believed they nearly all desired to do so and to bring criminals to justice.

The PREMIER said the hon. member was dis­cussing the main principles of the Bill. The que.§tion before the Committee was clause 1.

The CHAIRMAN : I must ask the hon. mem­ber to confine his remarks to the question. The hon. member has already made a long speech in Committee, and I must ask him not to repeat himself.

Mr. FISHER intended to confine himself to the clause. His contention was that the short title was not the proper title to the Bill.

The PREMIER said the short title was simply put in for the sake of handy reference, and was as often as not placed at the end of Bills. Any debate directed towards the question whether the short title was a proper one was relevant, but to argue that the short title opened up the whole principle of the Bill was out of order.

Mr. FISHER: What was the use of being there at all if they could not discuss the clause?

The PREMIER: You may move another short title.

Mr. FISHER did not want to disobey the Chairman's ruling. The word "short" was only a qualification of the word" hitle," and the title was not a proper one according to the clauses contained in the Bill. It-was their duty to point out any misrepresentation, and there was misrepresentation if the Bill went before the country as a Bill for the preservation of peace. He thought, under the circumstances, they were

entitled to refer to what had happened during the interim between the discussion of the clause on Friday and the present time.

The SEORETARY l!'OR LANDS said the hon. member was introducing the affairs of out­side people, with whom the House had nothing to do.

The CHAIRMAN: It is not the business of the Committee to discuss what has taken place in meetings outside. The business is to consider the clause now before us, and the hon. member will not be in order in referring to the proceed­ing-s of meetings, which he seemed about to do. I would remind the hon. member that "amend­ments may be mane in every part of the Bill; either in the preamble, clause.w, or schedule. Clauses may be omitted, and new clauses and schedules added."

Mr. DRAKE was under the impression that an amendment had already been moved in the clause. On Friday last an amendment on the title was, at all events, suggested. The Premier had suggested that there was not much in the title, but in that case he thought it was of more importance than usual to have a correct title. Last :Friday the senior member for Mackay based an argument on that very question. He said it had been suggested that because the title had the word "peace" in it hon. members on that side objected to it. If that was a fair argument to use, t]ley had to look forward to the time when it might be desirable- and he thought it would bP. desirable at once-to repeal the Bill. The Premier said in his opening speech that that was a Bill which never should be on the statute-book of any colony or country. With that he entirely agreed.

The PREMIER: You are not quoting correctly. Mr. DRAKE: The words used by the hon.

gentleman were : "It is not a Bill that anyone would desire to see upon the statute. book of any country or colony." He agreed that it was most undesirable that a measure of that kind should be placed upon the statute-book, and that, if passed, it should be repealed as soon as possible. But if it went on the statute-book, and it was proposed to repeal it, a motion would have to be brought forward to "repeal the Peace Preservation Act." Then the hon. member for Mackay, or his successor in the particular r6le he now played, would no doubt make a most elaborate and gorgeous speech to prove that anyone who voted for the repeal of the Peace Preservation Act must be a person who was desirous of upsetting the peace of the country. The whole contention of the Govern­ment was th:.t the Bill was necessary because the peace of the colony was in a disturbed state at the present time. If that contention was right, the title of the Bill should be "A Bill for the Restoration of Peace." Which did the Govern­ment desire -to preserve peace, or to restore peace? He was inclined to think that the title was a correct one, because looking all round he could not see anything in the circumstances of the colony at present which could justify the Government in asking the House to pass such a measure ; there was nothing to show that there was any serious disturbance in the colony. If an amendment was moved in the clause which would convey to the people the idea that that was a measure which should be wiped off the statute-book at the earliest possible date, he would certainly vote for it.

The PREMIER thought the hon. member was disingenuous in his remarks, especially in quoting what he (the Premier) •aid on the intro­duction of the Bill. The hon. member quoted only a portion of what he said, omitting the point on which he laid great emphasis-namely, that it was only dire necessity which compelled the introduction of such a measure. He stated

Peace Preservation Bill. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Peace Preservation Rill. 513

at the time that it was only the exceptional nature of the circumstances in the disturbed districts of the colony that could justify the introduction of the Bill, and also expressed the desire that it should not remain on the statute-book. As to the absurdity of asking the House to repeal a Bill for the preservation of peace, that need not arise, as the Bill could be made to expire by affluxion of time, so that there was nothing in that objection. But, in any case, if they brought in a Bill to repeal that measure they would not take the short title, but the long title, which was "for the better preservation of peace in the disturbed districts." However, it was quite competent for any hon. member to suggest a better title if he c:ould.

Mr. l!,ISHER moved that the clause be amended so as to read-" This clause being calculated to delude the uninitiated as to the aim of the Coalition Government, the Act may l)e known and cited as ' The Peace Preservation Act of 1894.' "

The PREMIER pointed out that the clause was not an interpretation clause, but the short title of a Bill.

The CHAIRMAN: I rule that the amend­ment is not relevant to the clause, and I refuse to put it to the Committee.

Mr. FISHER thought the words he wished to have inserted were very proper words, and thought the amendment should be submitted to the Committee. He did not like the disagreeable duty of moving that the ruling be disagreed to, and hoped the Chairman would enlighten the Committee regarding the matter before they proceeded further.

The CHAIRMAN: The onus of proving that my ruling is wrong rest9 with the hon. gentle­man himself. The authority vested in me by electing me Chairman is the authority I now give in saying that I refuse to accept the hon. member's amendment, and put the same to the Committee.

Mr. DUNSFORD said that instead of being a Peace Bill the measure was one which would have the effect of compelling a large number of people tn break the peace. In s-,me dictionaries "peace " was defined as tr'1nquility and as " heavenly quiet" ; but the Bill would lead to hellish riot. It proposed to take away the liberty of innocent people merely on suspicion, to take away their property, and to incarcerate them without trial.

The CHAIR:YIAN : I must ask the hon. member to resume his seat. The hon. member is not discussing th<il chmse before the Com­mittee ; he must confine his remarks to the clause.

Mr. DUNSFORD was giving good reasons why the Bill should not be called a Peace Preservation Bill, and he would now move as an amendmen~ the omission of "Peace Preserva­tion," with the view of inserting, "People Perse­cution and Property Confiscation." In support of the amendment, he desired to say that the Bill proposed to confiscate the property of peace­able, law-abiding citizens, to persecute certain people on mere suspicion, to arrest them with Jut trial, and to incarcerate them. The short title as printed implied something good; but the Bill itself was bad, and public opinion had been expressed to the effect that it was bad; and the Committee should not allow a good name to be a~tached to a bad Bill.

The PREMIER pointed out that "May," referring to short titles, said :-

"In the Commons the original title is not amended dlll"ing the progress of the Bill to render it conformable with amendments which may have been made to the :Bill since its first introduction, unless the House agree to divide one Bill into two, or combine two into one, or the committee have amended the title."

1894-2 K

Mr. PoWERS : That does not refer to the short title.

'l,he PREMIER said he wanted to show that the short title was dependent upon the long title.

'' Such amendmP-nts are accordingly offered to the title on the third reading stage of a Bill. When amend­ments to a Bill are material, the short title by which the Bill is distinguished in the votes is also altered.'' Suppose the Committee agreed to the first six clau8es of the Bill, that would form a Bill by itself, and not a bad Bill either ; but they would be compelled to alter the title. It was premature for the title to be amended now, and he had never heard of such a thing being- done before. If the Bill were materially altered the short title would be altered in due course.

Mr. DRAKE said it was clear that the quota­tion from "May" referred to the long title which was always dealt with last, RO that it might be brought into conformity with the rest of the Bill. The short title could be amended when the clause containing it was under discussion the same as any other clause. He did not approve of the proposed amendment, but had already given reasons why there should be some amend­ment. The Opposition contended that this was a hateful Bill that should not be put uvon the statute-book; hon. members opposite con­tended that, although it was a hateful Bill, circumstances had arisen which rendered put­ting it on the statute-book the lesser of two evik That was a fair statement of the case ; and because it was a hateful Bill it should have a hateful title, so that when consid&red desirable it would be the easiest task possible to repeal it. He would rather it were called the Coercion Bill.

Mr. GLASSEY agreed with the last speaker, and if the hon. member for Charters Towers would withdraw hi" amendment, he would move that the word "coercion" be substituted for the 'vords ,,, peace preservation."

Mr. DUNSFORD said he did not intend to withdraw his amendment.

The CHAIRMAN : The amendment proposed is that the word" "Peace Preservation" he omitted with a view of inserting the words "People Persecution and Property Confiscation." The amendment is bringing the businnss of this Com­mittee into ridicule, and is not at all relevant. I decline to put this >Lmendment also.

Mr. DUNSFORD moved that the Chn.irman's ruling be disagreed to.

Question put; and the Committee divided:­AYEs, 17.

l\l[essrs. :McDonald. Kerr, Hardacre, Reid, Ogden, King, Jackson, rrurley, Browne, Rawlings, Daniels, l~isher, Dunsford, Dawson, Glassey, 1Vilkinson, and Cross.

Nmos, 39. 1.\.Iessrs. Xelson, Barlow, Byrnes, Groom, Smyth, Cribb,

Powers, Drake, Philp, Dickson, Crombie, Stephens, Kingsbury, Armstrong, Hamilton, Plunkett, Bell, JJeahy, Harding, Battersby, Cameron, Corfield, Phillips, Grimes, Agnew, Dalrymple, Smith, Mc::\Iaster, Lord, Chataway, .eetrie, G. Thorn, Stevens, Boles, Fogarty, Tozer, \V·. 'fhorn, "\Vatson, and Midson.

Resolved in the negative. Mr. GLASSEY moved, as an amendment,

that the words "Peace Preservation" be omitted with a view to the insertion of the words "No. 1 Coercion." The short title would then be "The No. 1 Coercion Act of 1894."

The PREMIER said that as no intimation had been given that there would be a second Act of the kind in ] 894, the words "No. 1 " were irrelevant. The word "coercion" in the short title might be relevant, but it would not make a bit of difference to the body of the Bill, which was a Bill to prevent coercion by unlawful means by certain persons in disturbed districts;

514 Peace Preservation Bill. [ASSEM:BLY.] Peace P1·eservation Bill.

just as when they passed an Act to prevent the incursion of rabbits, they gave it as its short title the " Rabbit Act.

Mr. GLASSEY said it was unworthy of the Premier to place men in the same category as rabbits; ftnd when the hon. gentleman told them that the Bill was for the purpose of preventing certain persons coercing others, he was simply drawing a red herring across the trail. Un­doubtedly it was a Coercion Bill of the worst possible description, and he challenged anyone to produce facts which would warrant the intro­duction of such a measure. Up to the present time little or no crime had taken place.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member, having moved an amendment, must confine his remarks to that particular question.

Mr. GLASSEY said he was confining his remarks to the fact that the Bill was a Coercion Bill of a most stringent character, and that up to the present time no neces,dty had been shown for its introduction.

The PREMIER asked if the hon. member was discussing the question ?

Mr. GLASSEY contended that he was. When the Premier got up in his place and attempted to divert public attention it was time that the real issue should be placed before the country. He protested against the Government attempting to employ coercive measures against innocent persons. If the Government could not catch the guilty persons with the means at their disposal, then it showed clearly that there was something wrong with the Police Force, and indeed something wrong with the Colonial Secretary himself, if he could not properly use the force at his disposal.

The CHAIRMAN : The question before the Committee is the omissiun of the words "Peace Preservation," with a view of inserting the words "No. 1 Coercion." The hon. member must confine his remarks to the question.

Mr. PO WEns, belim·ed that the term "coer­cion" would be the better of the two. Such Acts were generally known as Coercion Acts, and they might just as well call them by their proper name. The Peace Preservation Act in Ireland was an entirely different measure to that. He was getting a little mixed in regard to the title, because the Colonial Secretary, in reply to an interjection, said the comparison was between criminals and rabbits, and not as the Premier said between men and rabbits. The hrm. gentle· man told them the other night that the way to stop intimidation was to arrest the ringleaders, not because they were criminals.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY : I said take them because they were criminals.

Mr. PO\VERS : Then the hon. gentleman said it was useless to arrest them unless he had evidence against them. The hon. gentleman wanted now to arrest them without evidence against them.

The PREiiiiER : This Bill is to find the evi­dence.

Mr. POWERS: Then it should be called the Coercion Bill.

The SECRETARY FOR LANDS said the amendment was intended to fix a stigma on the Bill. There was no parallel whatever between the condition of this country and any other country. In other places the laws were made m connection with the feeling of a whole nation; here they were not legislating against the nation, but against a few scoundrels.

HoNOURABLE ME1IBERS of the Labour party : Question, question !

The CHAIRMAN : I must ask the hon. gentleman to confine his remarks to the ques­tion.

The SECRETARY FOR LANDS said he found the dictionary meaning of the word

"coerce" was "to restrain by force-particu­larly by moral force-or by law, to redress, to compel compliance, to constrain." There was nothing very dreadful about that. He did not want anything except to see the unsettled districts restored to such a state, that civilised beings could get a living with some reasonable degree of comfort.

Mr. BROWNE said they were l!ll satisfied with the word "peace" ; they wished for nothing else. The word "preserve " he found meant "to secure, to make lasting." They wanted to make peace lasting and secure, but there were different ways of going about that. In the great meat industry he found that before they started preserving they killed the animal and cut it up. In the fruit· preserving industry they took the heart out of the fruit and then cut it up. If that was the intention of the Government, he thought the " Peace Preserva­tion Bill" was a proper title. Following out the lines of other industries the Government would havA to run peace in, yard it, cut it in pieces, and then start preserving it. By the time they had done that he thought there would be very little peace left in the country.

Mr. McDONALD said what struck him most about the definition read by the Secretary for Lands was the moral force part of it. It was just as well to study the moral suasion aspect of the question. A large number of leg-irons went out West yesterday. [The hon. member here produced a pair of leg-irons.]

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: I have just ascer­tained from the Commissioner of Police that a fortnight ago he ordered fifty because they were out of stock. They are kept in Brisbane.

Mr. McDON ALD said he knew that a number went out West yesterday, and that was what the Secretary for Lands called moral snasion.

The CHAIRMAN : I must ask the hon. member to confine his remarks to the amendment before the Committee.

Mr. McDONALD: The Premier stated that he saw no objection to the amendment, and then went on to compare the men in the \V est to rabbits.

The PREMttER : No. Mr. McDONALD: The hon. gentleman went

on to compare the men out West to rabbits. The PREMIER : The hon. member rr,ust accept

my denial, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN : The Premier denies

having made such a statement, and the hon. member must accept that denial.

Mr. McD01<ALD accepted it in a parlia­mentary sense. He supported the amendment because he would like to see the title so worded as to show those people who read the matter up that they were adopting the coercive measures which were passed in reference to Ireland in 1881 and 1887.

Mr. BELL hoped the Government would not accept the amendment. In the minds of Englishmen the word" "coercion" had come to be associated definitely and clearly with certain proceedings in regard to Ireland which had no analogy whatever to the proceedings now before the Committee. No doubt the minority against whom the measure was aimed would justify their proceedings to themselves, because they were told that even a murderer justified his act to himself; but seeing that those men were carrying on lawless operations, and that the object of the Government in introducing that Bill was to remedy that state of things, the proper title was the.~' Peace Preservation Bill." The great guarantee of the safety of justice under that measure was the fact that the life of the Ministry which were to administer it was in the hands of the Housp, and he was quite sure that, irrespective of party feeling, there was a majority in the

Peaee Preservation Bill. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Peaee Preservation Bill. 515

House who, if they saw the Ministry administer­ing the measure in away that was improper, or unfair, or unpatriotic, would have no hesitation in sending them about their business.

Mr. REID thought the Premier was very wise in accepting the amendment.

The PREMIER said he did not state that he would accept the amendment. He stated that the words "No. 1" were not relevant, but that the other words of the proposed amendment might be considered relevant.

Mr. REID understood the Premier to say that the words "No. 1" were irrelevant, but cer­tainly thought that he was going to accept the amendment, and he was very sorry that the hon. gentleman had changed his mind.

The PREMIER: Is it in order, Mr. Annear, to say that I have changed my mind, when I have denied that I said I would accept the amendment?

The CHAIRMAN : I am sure the hon. mem­ber for Toowong will accept the denial of the Premier.

Mr. REID would accept the denial, and endeavour to persuade the hon gentleman to accept the amendment. The hon. member who spoke last said that the word "coercion" .tunk in the nostrils of Englishmen; a,nd, if it stank m the nostrils of Englishmen on the other side of the water, he (Mr. Reid) should think it would stink just as much here. He thought the hon. member forgot that the circumstances of Queensland, as far as hon. members knew them, did not want a Coercion Bill at all. What hon. members on his side wanted to do was to let people understand what power the Government were trying to get into their hands.

The PREMIER thought the hon. m<Jmber was insulting the House by saying that the Bill was not wanted. The House, by passing the second reading, had affirmed that the Bill was necessary ; and the hon. member, instead of debating the clause before the Committee, was going back to the general question-which the House had already affirmed.

Mr. DRAKE wished the Premier would make a clear statement as to whether he was going to accept the amendment or not.

The PREMIER had done so several time"· Most decidedly not. He had simply said that the amendment might he considered relevant so far as the word " coercion " was concerned.

Mr. DRAKE said he had heard one or two members express the opinion that the hon. gen­tleman was going to accept it. Perhaps the Commi~tee might have been somewhat misled by the speech of the Secretary for Lands, which appeared to be strongly in favour of the amend­ment. That hon. gentleman showed by reference to the dictionary that the word "coercion" was not a word of bad import, and in doing so seemed to argue in favour of the amendment as one that would put no stigma on the Bill. He (Mr. Drake) would prefer that the Bill should be called by some name which would convey a dis­tinct stigma, and he could not see how the hon. member for Dalby made out his case at all. A great number of Coer~ion Acts had been passed in England to apply--most improperly and un­justifiably, as the hon. gentleman contended-to the whole of the people of Ireland; and if there was no more justification for passing them tha.n there was for passing this Bill it was a great censure on the British Government that they should ,have given to their Acts the harsher name of " coercion."

The CHAIRMAN: I must ask the hon. member to confine his remarks to the amend­ment before the Committee.

Mr. DRAKE submitted that, as the mea­sure was admittedly of an objectionable cha­racter, in suggesting that it should be given

a title which would signify its objectionable character, he was strictly within the rules of debate. After the remarks of the Secretary for Lands he did not see how hon. members opposite could object to the measure being called a Coercion Act.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY said the function of the legislature wail to build up, and they were there to legislate for the good of the country. The function of the Oommittee was to construct a Bill on the basis laid down in the second reading. He had known instances in which nearly every clauee of the original Bill had been cut out, but that did not prevent a Bill from being built np. They were there to put their heads together with the object of preserv­ing peace, and if all the details before them were not sufficient, hon. members were there to alter them. He could not understand the hon. mem­ber for Maryborough. If that hon. member's view were correct, he was agreeable to such portions of the Bill as gave the Government power to seize arms, and if he were logical he would see that this was the proper title for such a Bill to carry out his own ideas. If the Com­mittee decided that that was all the j.JOWer they would give, then that was clearly the proper title of the Bill. "May" laid it down that if in amending a Bill the Committee went away from the title, the title could be rectified after the third reading; but now hon. members proposed to rectify it before they knew what they were going to make the Bill.

Mr. POWERS said he did not withdraw from the position he took up. If the Bill he suggested had been brought in, this would have been a fair title to it. ·when a Coercion Bill was brought in for Ireland it was not called a "Peace Preserva­tion Bill." If the Premier said he was not going on with the coercion part of the Bill, but only with the peace preservation clauses, they would know where they were.

Mr. DRAKE said the argument of the Colonial Secretary tended in favour of the postponement of the clause. The Government were asking them to agree to a short title, on the supposition that the Bill would pass in its present form. The question now was whether "Peace Preservation Bill" or "Coercion Bill " was the better title. All the clauses were repressive, and were all within the scope of a Coercion Bill.

Mr. REID : If the short title were merely for the purpose of handy reference, it would be carrying out that idea if they called it the Coercion Bill. The people in the proclaim~d districts would then know exactly what 1t meant. The Premier told them, on introduc­ing the Bill, that he was going to take it in hand.

The PREMIER : I would like the hon. mem­ber to point ont where I said that.

Mr. REID: The Premier might not have used those exact words; but he said he felt confident that the workmen of the colony would entrust him with the powers that were asked to be en trusted to him in the Bill.

The PREMIER said that did not mean that he was to have the administration of the Bill. Of course, as to advising the Governor with regard to districts to be proclaimed, he should take the whole of that reeponsibility.

Mr. RJ<JID said that if they were certain that the Premier was going to administer the Act, knowing what they did of him, some of them might even be tempted to entrust him with it. They would think that moral suasion was going to be used, as the Secretary for Lands said. .

The SECRETARY FOR LANDS : I never said moral snasion would be used.

Mr. REID said the hon. gentleman gave that as one of the definitions of "coercion." If the Premier was to have the administration of the

516 Peace Prese1•vation Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Peace Preservation Bill.

Bill he would no doubt use moral suasion or moderate coercion, and they might be tempted to let the Bill go as it was. But as that was not to be the case the word " coercion " gave an exact definition of the measure. With that title the people in the western country, the majority of whom were natives of Ireland, would know exactly what the Bill was for. If called the Peace Preservation Act they might think the Government were going to keep the peace between the bu,hmen and the squatters.

Mr. HARDACRE said the word "coercion" in the "Century Dictionary" was defined as meaning " to restrain or constrain by the force of law or authority." The word would therefore accurately define the scope of the Bill, and the objects of the Government. Not only were the clauses themselves taken from the Irish Coercion Acts, but they would be applied to persons from that unfortunate country.

The CHAIRMAN: We are not discussing the question of Ireland. I call the hon. mem­ber's attention again to his tedious repetitions, and I do so for the last time. If the hon. mem­ber continues this line of conduct there is nothing left for me but to call the attention of the Committee to his conduct under Standing Order No. 134.

Mr. BELL rose to a point of order. They were discussing the title of the Bill, and there was nothing in their Standing Orders dealing with it. Standing Order 335 stated that in all cases not specially provided for the rules and usages of the House of Commons should be observed. "May" said, page 462, "In the Commons, when any amendment is to be made in the title, that is the last proceeding of the committee."

Mr. DRAKE : This is not the title of the Bill, but the short title.

The CHAIRMAN" : To continue my remarks, I would remind the hon. member for Leichhardt and other hon. members that it is not iu order to repeat what others have said previously. That must be discontinued, and I appeal to the hon. m em her once more to strictly confine his remn,rks to the amendment.

Mr. HARD ACRE said his intention was to show that the title of the Bill was a false title, and that it ought to be something different. That he could only do by showing the character of the Bill itself, and the intentions of the Government as shown bv their actions.

The CHAIRMAN: "The hon. member will not be in order in calling attention to any of the matters he is referring to, as they are not rele­vant to the question. I do not think I should go wrong in quoting from the rules of the House of Commons by the greatest living authority:-­"A member who resorts to persistent irrelevance may, under Order 124, be directed by the Speaker or Chairman to discontinue his speech after the attention of the House has been called to the conduct of the hon. member." The hon. member can of course make a motion that he be further heard.

Mr. HARD ACRE asked what wn,s the Chair­man's ruling ?

The CHAIRMAX : I rule that the hon. member is out of order.

Mr. RAWLINGS : \Vhat Standing Order? The CHAIRMAN : The Standing Order is

myself. I am the authority. Mr. HARD ACRE asked if he was in order in

showing from the Bill itself that the title it had was not correct ?

The CHAIRMAN : Th8 question now is that certain words proposed to be omitted stand part of the clause. I ask the hon. member to confine his remarks strictly to that motion.

Mr. GLASSEY said surely it was a most extraordinary thing--

The CHAIRMAN : Will the hon. member be seated. There is no point of order.

Mr. HARD ACRE desired to obey the Chair­man's ruling. He wished to show that the title proposed was the incorrect one. He could not see how he was out of order.

The CHAIRMAN : I rule that the hon. mem­ber cannot introduce the questions he was refer­ring to or discuss the principles of the Bill. He must confine his remarks to the amendment.

Mr. HARDACRJ<J said he did not know how they could debate the Bill at all. The whole object was to coerce the people, not for the purpose of making peace, but for the parpose of rousing their bitter passions.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY : The title will not do that.

Mr. HARDACRE said the title would show the people what was intended to be done by the present Ministry--

The PREMIER rose to order. The hon. member proposed to show something which was going to be done by the present Ministry. That harl nothing to do with the question. The Bill was not brought into Committee by the Ministry. It was out of the hands of the Government. The House had read the Bill a second time and ordered it to be considered in committee.

Mr. DRAKE understood the hon. member for Leichhardt to be showing what powers could be used by any Government in the administra­tion of the Bill. In doing so he must necessarily refer to the powers contained in the Bill.

The PREMIER said the hon. member for Leichhardt said he wished to show the people what the Ministry proposed. He hoped the Chairman would not rule according to the suggestion of the hon. member for Enoggera. If he did, hou. members would be justified in debating the whole principle of the Bill on the short title.

Mr. GLASSEY said were the Ministry really getting ashamed--

The CHAIRMAN: I ask the hon. member to resume his seat. The hon. member for Leich­hardt must confine his remarks to the question before the Committee.

Mr. HARD ACRE: \Vas he to understand then that the Ministry did not want to carry out the provisions of the Bill? The Bill would show what the Ministry wanted to do. If they did not want to do it, why did they not withdraw the Bill. He was very glad to hear from the Premier that he did not want to pass the Bill.

The Pm;~!IER : I deny that I said it. The CHAIRMAN : I desire to call the atten­

tion of the Committee, under rule 134, to tedious repetition on the part of the hon. member for Leichhardt. I am of opinion that he is tediously repeating not only what he himself has Kaid, but what other hon. members have said, and I now ask him to discontinue his speech on the question before the Committee.

Mr. GLASSEY asked if the Chairman ruled that the hon. member could not address the Committee?

The CHAIRMAN: I rule that the hon. member must discontinue his speech on this question.

Mr. HARDACRE, under Rule 134, requested the Chairman to put the question that he be further hea.rd.

Question-That the hon. member for Leich­harclt, Mr. Hardacre, be further heard-put; and the Committee divided :-

AYEs, 21. Messrs. Hardacre, Kerr, JicDonald, Reid, Ogden,

Fogarty, "\V. '!'horn, Rawlings, c.;Jassey, Jackson, Turley, Daniels, Dunsford, Dawson, Cross, King, Wilkinson,

1 Groom, Drake, Powers, and Fisher.

P~ace Preservation Bill. [11 SEPTEMB:FJR.] Peace Preservation Bill. 517

NOES, 31. , Messrs. Nelson, Barlow, Byrnes, G. Thorn, Crombie

Tozer, Philp, Dickson, Agnew, King"~bury, Watson, Petrie, Armstrong, Stephens, Allan. Mc}iaster, Smi~h. Callan, Midson, Dalrymple, Chataway, Grimes, Phillips, Corfield, Cameron, Battersby, Thomas, Plunkett, Leahy, J,ord, and Crib b.

Hesol ved in the negative. Mr. DANIELS thought the title should have

some reference to the whole of the provisions of the Bill, which, in his opinion, should be named "The Civil Rev:1lution Encouragement Bill."

The CHAIRMAN: I must remind the hon. member that there is an amendment before the Committee to omit certain words, with the view of inserting "No. 1 Coercion."

Mr. DANIELS considered that "Coercion" was the right name for the Bill. It was not con­sidered wrong for Bills on similar lines to be called by that title in other countries, and why should they go out of their way to introduce fandangle notions with regard to that Bill? 'When the Premier was bringing in the Bill he thought, judging from the title, that it was a Conciliation Bill, and was very glad to hear that it was to be introduced. He did not vote for it, because there were enough members to carry it without him. He was never going to vote for or against any Bill until he saw it; and after hearing the remarks of the hon. member for Burke, who seemed to know what was in this Bill, he thought he was justified in going outside the bar, and not voting on the question till he had seen the Bill. He was prepared to answer to his constituents for any action he took in Parlia­ment. The measure ought to be called "No. 1 Coercion Act," because if it did not prove effectual there would be" No. 2 Coercion Act." The Government had already taken the best means to catch those criminals out \Vest by sending black trackers after them, and there was no necessity for the Bill.

Mr. WILKINSON had voted for the introduc­tion of the Bill, being innocent enough to suppose, as it was called a Peace Preservation Bill, that it would be so drafted as to be calculated to preserve the peace; but he was deceived. He thought the title did not properly describe the Bill, and that a better title could be found, though he was not altogether in favour of the term "coercion." If the Bill were acceptable to the people it would not matter what it was called; but believing that it would meet with the condemna­tion of the people, he thought the title should be one that would enable people to understand the nature of the measure. If a better title than the amendment was not moved he would move one himself.

Mr. DA WSON supported the amendment because the history of coercive legislation showed that it had the same effect on Governments as opium had on individuals--they became slaves to it. Such measures always had fanciful names given them, but he maintained that the title of a Bill should bear some relation to the contents. In order to show that the title of the Bill was inappropriate he would have to refer to some of the clauses, and particularly to clause 13, which would enable those who had the manipulation of the Act to arrest any person they pleased.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member will not be in order in discussing clause 13. The hon. member must confine himself to the question before the Committee.

Mr. DA WSON thought that if ever a Bill required full consideration it was the Bill before them, and contended that he would l:>e per­fectly in order in showing that "Peace Preser-va­tion Bill" was an incorrect title, whilst '' Coercion Bill No. 1" was the correct title. In order to do that it was necessary to refer to the clauses.

'rhe CHAIRMAN : I rule that the hon. member cannot do that. I trust the hon. mem-

ber will confine his remarks to the question in as few words as possible, and not keep on con­tinually repeating himself.

Mr. GLASSEY said that with all due defer­ence to the Chairman, under Standing Order 260, the hon. member was perfectly in order.

The CHAIRMAN : Does the hon. member rise to a point of order?

Mr. GLASSEY said he was going to read the Standing Order to show that the hon. member for Charters Towers was in order.

Mr. l!'OXTON rose to a point of order-­Mr. GLASSEY said that if the hon. member

for Carnarvon would pardon him he would read the Standing Order.

Mr. l!'OXTON rose to a point of order-­The CHAIRMAN : I understand the hon.

member for Burke has raised a point of order, and that he is now going to read the Standing Order.

Mr. J<'OXTON : I understand he is disputing your ruling.

The CHAIRMAN: I must ask the hon. member for Burke to state his point of order.

Mr. GLASSEY read Standing Order 260 to the effect that an amendment might be made in any part of a Bill provided it were relevant to the subject matter of the Bill. He contended that that gave the h(m. member for Charters Towers scope to follow his line of argument.

The CHAIRMAN: I must remind the hon. member that there is an amendment before the Committee. My rulingo are based on Standing Order 258, which says that when a clause or amendment is under discussion a member speak­ing shall confine himself to the matter of that clause or amendment. I again rule that the hon. member will not be in order in discussing any other clause in the Bill.

Mr. DA WSON contended that he had con­fined his remarks strictly to the question before the Committee.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member is dis­puting my ruling. When I stood up he was referring to clause 13, while we are discussing a proposed amendment to clause 1.

Mr. DA WSON thought it incumbent upon him to insist upon pointing out the effects of the Bill, and to show that the title desired by the hon. member for Burke was the correct one. He was trying to prove that from the Bill itself, by showing that it gave power to imprison a man for six months upon a special warrant.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member is dis­regarding my ruling. I cannot allow him to continue his present line of argument, and he must abide by my ruling or move that it be dis­agreed to.

Mr. DA WSON moved that the Chairman's ruling be disagreed to.

Question put; and the Committee divided :­AYEs 24

1\fessrs. FiE~her, McDonaid, 6gden, Kerr, Hardacre, Reid, Fogarty, Wilkinson, Turley, Jackson, Brownet Drake, Dawson, Daniels, Dunsford. Glassey, Cross, King, Groom, Powers, "\V, Thorn, Rawlings, Bell, and Boles.

Nor;~. 31. )fessrs. Nelson, Byrnes, Barlow, G. Thorn, Philp,

Armstrong, .Battersby, Dickson, Ol'ombie, Tooth, Tozer, l\1cMaster, Stevens, 'l'homas. Plunkett, Duffy, Cameron, Cribb, Phillips, Agnew, Grimes, Callan, Smith, Lord, Kings bury, Cor field, Step hens, Petrie, Chataway, ~fidson, and Watson,

Resolved in the negative. Mr. DRAKE said he should have wished, if

possible, to move an amendment on the words proposed to be inserted, hut he had found that if the question was negatived on a division it would not be competent for him to express an opinion with regard to those words. He should prefer to see the word " Coercion" only inserted. The words "No. 1" suggested that the Bill was only the first of a series of similar Bills, whereas

1518 Peace Preservation Bill. [.ASSEMBLY.] Peace P1•eservation Bill.

it appeared to be the unanimous opinion of the Committee that it was not desirable that there should be any other Bill of the same character. It would be very unfortunate even to suggest that they were entering upon a course of legislation of that kind. Still, having once entered upon it there was always a danger that more would be required, and if this com­menced to put the colony under martial law the constitution of Queensland might so change that it would become necessary that that kind of law should continue. For the same reason he had intended to move the omission of the words "of 1894," but he could foresee objections to that amendment.

The SECRETARY FOR LANDS asked whether it would not be in order to move an amendment on the amendment?

The CHAIRMAN : That cannot be don~; but it is open to the hon. member for Burke to withdraw his amendment with the consent of the Committee.

Mr. GLASSEY said it was sufficient for him to have "coercion " inserted, which was the proper title of the Bill. He to some extent agreed with the hon. member for Enoggera that the words "No. 1" were not of vital importance, and he had no objection to withdraw them.

The CHAIRMAN: As far as I can under­stand the hon. member, he wishes to withdraw his amendment. That cannot be done without the consent. 'lf the Committee.

Mr. GL,_...,SEY was not quite sure whether he would be permitted to withdraw the amendment, because the Secretary for Lands objected, and wished the words retained. The Premier was perfectly right in saying that he was not aware that out of the eighty-seven Coercion Acts passed by the Imperial Parliament any one of them bore the title of "coercion." The British Go­vernment, like the Queensland Government, had not the courage to put their real intentions on paper.

The PREMIER said the hon. member was imputing' motives.

The SECRETARY FOR LANDS drew att~n­tion to a ruling of Mr. Speaker Peel on a Bill relating to England and \V ales, in which it was stated that references to Ireland were out of order.

The CHAIRMAN: I have already ruled that it is unnecessary to refer to Ireland when dis­cussing this Bill.

Mr. GLASSEY was not aware that in any country in the world, except Queensland, a member was not permitted to use illustrations with a view of supporting his argument.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member used these illustrations on the second reading in a very lengthy speech, and he will not be in order in discussing the principles of the Bill when clause 1 only is before the Committee.

Mr. GLASSEY said he had kept strictly and closely and absolutely to the question.

The PREMIER said if the hon. member would not pay attention to the Chairman's ruling he must move that he be not further heard.

The CHAIRMAN : I feel sure the hon. member will take warning. I am sure the hon. member, as leader of a party, will feel it his duty to assist me in carrying out the Standing Orders. I trust he will confine himself to the question, and assist in doing the business for which the Committee is constituted.

Mr. G LASSEY said no one was more anxious than himself to obey the rulings of the Chair. He appealed to members opposite to assist in giving the Bill its proper title. Nothing stank so grossly in the nostrils of a vast number of people tha.n the word "coercion," and if the Bill became

law it would be distasteful not only in senti­me~t but he feared in fact to the people of Queensland.

Mr. OGDEN had not spoken· on the clause or the Bill, but desired to re-echo the sentiments of hon. members on his side in regard to the title of the production. If the Premier would watch what was going on, and the way the Colonial Secretary had been carrying on his depa:t;tment during the last week, he would see that It was inadvisable to press the Bill further.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member is wandering away from the question. I must ask him to confine his remarks to clause 1 of the Bill.

Mr. OGDEN had not the slightest wish to trespass. He was going to show that that clause was part of the Constitution which they were huilding up day by day, and it was most dangerous to place such a power in the hands of the Government.

The PREMIER said the hon. member was discussing the main question.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member will not be in order in discussing the Constitution.

Mr. OGDEN only wished to see such power placed in the hands of the. Executive as _con!d not be misused. In the history of coermon m times past and the repressive legislation of 1892-

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will not be in order in discussing the repressive legislation of 1892. I ask him to confine his remarks strictly to the question.

Mr. OGDEN agreed wtth those who con­sidered it important to weigh the meaning of every clause, every sentence, and every word in the Bill, and the title should contain the word " coercion," as the import of~ the clauses was emphatically coercive.

Mr. BROWNE agreed with Shakspeare that " a rose by any other name would smell as sweet;" and if the Govermr.ent thought the Bill a good c:me the name suggested by the leader of the Labour party would not injure it. The Bill was a bad one, and the amendment supplied the proper title for it. If the Govern­ment wished to carry it they should accept the amendment, seeing that no matter how pretty a name was given to an ugly child it would not make that child beautiful.

Mr. BANIELS was of the opinion that mem­bers on the Government side did not understand the word "coercion," and suggested that the hon. member for Burke or the hon. member for Enoggera should give a full explanation of it, to enable those hon. members to know what they would be voting for.

Mr. FISHER asked attention to a remark made by the Secretary for Lands--

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will be seated. I remind the hon. member that he will not be in order in referring to what any other hon. member may have been pleased to say during this debate.

Mr. FISHER: I would like to understand that ruling.

The CHAIRMAN : I rule that the hon. member will be out of order in repeating an_y remarks made by any hon. member during this debate. ·

Mr. l!'ISHER considered the honour of the Chair as of the highest importance, and always voted against his ruling with the greatest re­luctance; but if he was not to refer to a remark made by a Minister of the Crown for the purpose of commenting upon it the rulh;g wa;; so im­portant as to require further consideratiOn. He wished to know whether an hon. member could cite words spoken by another hon. member and make comments thereon?

Peace Preservation Bill. [11 SEI'TEMBE:R.] Peace Prese1'vation Bill. 519

The CHAIRMAN : I have already ruled that it is no~ relevant to the question for an hon. member to quote the remark~ made by another hon. member, and in this I am fortified by "May," who says: "Akin to irrelevancy is the frequent repetition of the same arguments, whether of the arguments of the member speak­ing, or the arguments of other members ; an offence "l_'l'hich may be met by the power given to the Charr under Standing Order No. 24."

Mr. FISHER accepted the ruling of the Chairman, and argued that "coercion" was the proper title. Hon. members were constantly receiving telegrams asking what was the nature of the provision;; contained in the Bill. and when the people received a reply to their imiuiries they were astonished at the character of the measure.

Mr. DUNSFORD also contended that the proper name was "Coercion" Bill. It proposed to coerce certain law-abiding citizens, and hon. members opposite· were prepared to swallow it without discussion. It was extremely foolish for them to christen the measure before it was born. They did not yet know what would be the character of the measure, as the Premier had told them that the Committee could remodel it, and the hon. member for Maryborough had circulated a number of amendments, some of which it had been suggested might be accepted by the Govern­ment. He would therefore sugge~t that clause 1 should be withdrawn, until they knew what would be the character of the Bill. If he had the power he would withdraw the measure with fire, the same as people were getting rid of woolsheds with fire. It was a measure which would destroy the liberty--

The CHAIRMAN called upon the hon. mem­ber to confine his remarks to the question.

Mr. DUNSFORD said that if they had to settle the question now as to whether the Bill was to be called by its original name or by the new name proposed he would choose the latter, because it was more applicable than the name "Peace."

The CHAIRMAN asked the hon. member to discontinue his tedious repetitions.

Mr. DUNSFORD asked whether he might not mention the name " Peace" once more?

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member must not bring the business of this Committee into ridicule.

Mr. DUNSFORD did not see how he could give any reasons for or against any matter if he could not mention that matter. The gag had silenced some members on the Opposition side; and their masters had silenced all members on the other Ride.

The CHAIRMAN called upon the hon. mem­ber, under Rule 134, to discontinue his speech on the question now before the Committee.

Mr. DUNSFORD moved that he be further heard.

Question-That the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dunsford, be further heard-put ; and the Committee divided :-

An;s, 21. Messrs. Reid, McDonald, Kerr, Ogden, Rawlings,

Browne, Jackson, l!'ogarty, W. Thorn, Turley, Daniels, Dawson, Dunsford, Cross, King, Powers, Drake, Groom, Glassey, Wilkinson, and Fisher.

NoBs, 38. Me.ssrs. Barlow, G. Thorn, Nelson, Byrnes, Tozer,

Dickson, Crombie, McMaster, Armstrong, Morehead, Philp, Ohataway, Stevens, Smyth, Plunkett, O'Oonnell, Bell, Oribb, Battersby, Thomas, Oorfield, Da!rymple, Grimes, Phillips, Callan, Lord, Kingsbury, Smith, Duffy, Cameron, Allan, Petrie, M1dson, Tooth, Agnew, Foxton, Watson, and Stephens.

Resolved in the negative. Mr. CROSS said it bad been said that no such

measure as that Bill had been called a Coercion Act; but in a list of such Acts-which began in

1800, while the last had been passed in 1887-­published as an appendix to a work by Mr. Morrison Davidson, the one passed in 1887 was styled the'' Jubilee Coercion Act." The 1atter part of the Bill, providing for secret in· quiry, detention, and imprisonment without trial, certainly justified the amendment of the hon. member for Burke.

l\fr. TURLEY said when the Bill was intro­duced he had been ignorant of the fact that the great majority of similar measures passed in Great Britain had had such names as that of the Bill before them. It was evidently done on the same principle as that which made people coat a pill with sugar to cover the taste. In time, when people were ashamed of it, and anyone wanted to refer to the Coercion Act, they would be unable to find it under the title proposed in the Bill. He had understood the Premier to say that he agreed with the amendment, but he thought it would not do what it was intended to do. He thought the argument of the Colonial Secretary--

The COLONIAL SECRETARY rose to a point of order. The hon. member was repeating what other hon. members had said.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will be out of order if he goes on as he is doing. I request him to keep to the question.

Mr. TURLEY said he would give another definition of the word "coercion," taken from the Encyclop1edic dictionary, which said that it meant the act of coercing, or keeping under penal restraint; compulsion, or the act of enforc­ing by compulsion; the exercise of might over right. Any person reading that definition would see why hon. members of the Opposition were trying to apply the term to this measure.

The CHAIRMAN called the hon. member to order.

Mr. TURLEY submitted that he was in order in discussing the amendment word by word. He supported the introduction of the words "No. 1," because when a country was com­menced to be governed by coercion and repres­sive laws, it would be impossible for any Go­vernment, e•pecially the same Government, to continue to govern the country except by a con­tinuance of repressive measures.

The HoN. B. D. MOREHEAD said, so far as he could make out, hon. members on the Go­vernment side wanted the word "peace" put in, while hon. members opposite wanted the word "coercion" inserted. His side wanted" peace," the other side " coercion."

Mr. J ACKSON believed that "coercion " would be a better name for thig offgpring of the Government. The child was prematurely born, and it might turn out to be still-born.

The CHAIRMAN said the hon. member must address himself to the amendment.

Mr. JACKSON did not think it a matter of great importance what name they gave the Bill. The Premier had stated that he would have no objection to the Bill expiring by effiuxion of time, but they had only that statement before them, and it was impossible to say how the Bill might be altered before it got through Com­mittee.

Mr. KERR, as the member for an electorate in the so-calle<l disturbed districts, naturally took a ~reat interest in the Bill. He opposed it because ne did not believe it was a Bill for the preserva­tion of peace. The word "coercion " stank in the nostrils of all civilised peoplP, and he wanted to have the word inserted as the short title, because it was the proper name for it. The people in the West were getting anxious to know what was the aim and object of the Bill. Only that day he and several. other members on that side had received "wires" from their con­stituents asking them to opposa the Bill.

520 Peace Preservation Bill. [ASSEMBLY.] Peace Prese1"vation BiU.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member was not in order in quoting "wires" received from different parts of the colony. He must confine himeelf to the question.

Mr. KERR said he wanted to give his reasons for opposing every clause, every lino, aud every word in the Bill. That might be obstruction ; he did nrt deny it. He intended to obstruct the Bill by every means in his power. He believed in the retention of the words "No. 1," because there would be no limits to Coercion Acts when one was once passed. The people believed that the Bill was unfair and unjust. Yet it was being rushed through the Chamber, and the gag had been applied already to one or two members.

The CHAIRMAN again asked the hon. mem­ber to confine himself to the question,

Mr. KERR argued further in support of the amendment.

Mr. MoDONALD thought the amendment moved by the hon. member for Burke a very good one. Any stranger who wished to look up the measure in the statute-book would never think oflookingundertheheadingof "peace," but it would naturally occur to him to look up the word "coercion." They might ju•t as well call the Land Bill introduced by the Secretary for Lands a Mining Bill, and expect people to be able to find it in the statutes. What really astonisherl him was that the Government had not seen fit to do away with the whole discussion by accepting the amendment of the hon. member for Burke.

The COLONIAL SECRETAR 'l called atten­tion to tedious repetition on the part of the hon. member.

The CHAIRMAN asked the hon. member to confine his remarks to the question.

Mr. McDONALD regretted that the Go­vernment were trying to deceive the people by making them believe that the Bill was intended to preserve the peace, when its real effect would be the very opposite. The Government ought to have had the manliness to say the measure was a Coercion Act.

The CHAIRMAN again called the hon. mem­ber to the question.

Mr. McDONALD: The 1st clause was so associated with the whole construction of the Bill that he defied any hon. member to discuss it without mentioning the Bill. The Government tried to force the Bill through in oue night.

The CHAIRMAN said the hon. member was not in order in referring to a previous debate, and warned him against continued repetitions.

Mr. McDONALD would not have been two minutes over the clause if he had not had, as a member representing a district affected by the Bill, to reply to a long speech made by the Colonial Secretary, who was in error if anyone was. The proper course for the Government to pursue wtte to accept the amendment.

The COLONIAL SECRETARY: It is not a question for the hon. member as to the course the Government should pursue. That is left to the Government.

Mr. FI::\HER raised a point of order as to whether it was a function of a Minister to instruct the Chair.

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member could not have heard what was said. The Colonial Secretary did not speak of instructing the Chair. The hon. member, replying to the hon. member for Flinders, said it was not his function to instruct the Government as to what they should do.

Mr. McDONALD contended that, as a repre­sentative of the people, he was entitled to suggest certain action to the Government, and if they did not take it the fault lay with them.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : Question ! The CHAIRMAN again a8ked the hon. mem­

ber to confine his remarks to the question.

Mr. McDONALD wished to be allowed to speak without interruption, and he objected to the gestures of the Colonial Secretary.

The CHAIRMAN said the hon. member wlts tediously repeating himself and ordered him to discontinue his speech.

Mr. McDONALD moved that he be further heard.

Question put ; and the Committee divided :­AYEs, 22.

Messrs. Fisher, Cross, ~'ilkinson, Hardacre, Glassey, 1\.:IcDonald, Dunsford, Dawson, Jackson, Daniels, King, Rawlings, Powers, Fogarty, Drake, Turley, Browne, Ogden, Reicl, Kerr, W. Thorn, and Groom.

NoEs, 39. 3-:Iessrs. Nelson, Barlow, Byrnes, Tozer, G. Thol'n,

Philp, Stevens, M:orehead, McM:aster, Dickson, Bell, Thomas, Smyth, Chataway, Cribb, Leahy, Duffy, Smith, Plunkett, Cameron, Corfield, Dalrymple, Grimes, Lord, Armstrong, Kingsburv, Phillips, :Battersby, Petrie, Stephens, Callan, Allan, Agnew, Foxton, Crombie, :iliidson, Tooth, Watson, and O'Connell.

Resolved in the negative. Mr. REID argued in support of the amend­

ment, and having been twice called to order, resumed his seat.

Mr. CROSS thought that as this was the first Coercion Bill brought before an Australian Parliament, it was just as well to call it "No. 1." He was proceeding to refer to Coercion Acts passed in England, when

The CHAIRMAN called him to order. Mr. DA '.VSON contended that hon. members

were entitled to read extracts, and was expressing his opinion that the operation of the Bill would create tumult, when--

The CHAIRMAN ruled that he was tediously repeating himself, and directed him to discon­tinue his remarks.

Mr. DA WSON moved that the ruling be dis· agreed to.

Question put; and the Committee divided:­AYl<~s, 22.

Messrs. Gla~ey, Dunsford, Fisher, Cross, Daniels, Dawson, Turley, Browne, Jackson, Rawlings, King, Kerr, McDonald, Hardacre, Reid, Ogden, Groom, Wilkinson, Drake, Powers, Fogarty, and W. Thorn.

JS'OES, 37. Messrs. Nelson, Tozer, Barlow, Philp, Dickson, Byrnes,

G. Thorn, Grimes, Corfield, :McMaster, Aiorehead, Cribb, Smyth, Tooth, Foxton, Armstrong, Bell, 'l'homas, Call an, Plunkett, O'Connell, Chataway, Duffy, Battersby, Lord, Phillips, Smith, Crombie, Kingsbury, Petrie, Stephens, Camm·on, Agnew, Dalrymple, Midson, Watson, and Allan.

Resolved in the negative. Mr. RA WLINGS objected to the title of the

Bill, and argued in support of the amendment. The CHAIRMAN, having repeatedly called

him to order, ultimately directed him to dis­continue his speech.

Mr. RA WLINGS moved that he be further heard.

Question put; and the Committee divided, with the same result as in the previous division.

Mr. FISHER again advocated the amend­ment, and contended that they should be careful to use such words in the title that it would not convey a wrong impression, or an impression that would be likely to injure those persons who were likely to become candidates for seats in that House. [Having been re­peatedly called to order, the hon. member dis­continued his remarks.]

Mr. J AOKSON rose with fear and trembling to say a few more words on the clause. If the Chairman was left to himself, and if members of the Treasury benches--

The CHAIRMAN: The hon. member is not in order in inferring that I am not left to myself. No one on the Committee has influenced me for a moment in any decision I have given. I trust I uphold my position as a man in trying to carry out my duties as they should be carried out by anyone elected to the chair. The hon. member

Peace Preservation Bill. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Peace Preservation Bill. 521

is out of order in inferring that any member on the Treasury bench or in any other part of the Chamber has influenced me.

The HoN. B. D. MOREHEAD, as tending to end the difference between both sides, suggested that the short title should be postponed untiHhe other clauses of the Bill were considered. He was a thorough believer in the Bill in its entirety, and would support it ; but it was possible that amendments might be made which would render the short title ridiculous or absurd.

Mr. JACKSON explained that he did not intend to cast any personal reflection upon the Chairman, and pointed out that the shearer~' strike was declared off at Longreach. If that was the effect of the Bill in its present form, it was possible that if it was amended as suggested by the hon. member for Burke the fear it would cast upon the shearers would lead to the collapse of the whole strike.

Mr. BROWNE urged the Government to accept the suggestion to defer the clause until after the Bill was passed, when they would know better what sort of baby they were christening.

Mr. GLASSEY said that with the permission of the Committee he would like to follow up the remarks of the hon. member for Balonne, who, although he was in favour of the Bill in its entirety, suggested that clause 1 should be post­poned, as it was very likely that the whole tenor of the measure might be altered by the time it got through committee. Did the hon. member think that the conditions of the country required a measure of that kind; or would he join with him (Mr. Glassey) and other hon. members in

·endeavouring to effect a reconciliation, which would,prevent coercive measures being carried? He knew he was trespassing in making those remarks, but he would suggest to the hon. member that the course he now proposed should be adopted.

The CHAIRMAN : The hon. member for Burke asked the permission to make the remarks he has just addressed to the Committee, and, as no one objected, I allnwed him to proceed.

Mr. WILKINSON said it was usual with scientists and others in giving a name to any­thing to have regard to its di~tinguishing characteristics, and he thought they should adopt the same method in dealing with that Bill. He was of opinion that the reins had been held too tightly that evening, and thought that an attempt had been made by the occupants of the Treasury benches to influence the ruling of the Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN : I think the hon. member on reconsideration will withdraw the remark that the occupants of the Treasury benches have in­fluenced me in my rulings. I have already assured the Committee that no such attempt has been made either this evening or at any other time, and I call upon the hon. member to withdraw the remark.

Mr. WILKINSON withdrew the remark, but thought it had been misunderstood, as he had no intention to imply that the Chairman had been approached in any underhand way. He only meant that an attempt had been made by inter­jections and remarks to influence his ruling. [The hon. member continued his remarks on the clause and on the amendment, in the course of which he was several times called to order by the Chairman.]

Mr. DRAKE thought the suggestion made by the hon. member for Balonne deserved con­sideration. He had made the same suggestion in the early part of the debate, and now that it had ·been made by a supporter of the Govern­ment, he thought the Government might make ~ome reply.

Mr. FISHER again addressed the Committee, and contended that if they allowed the clause to pass they would lose their opportunity. They were fighting the battle of democracy.

The CHAIRMAN called on the hon. member to discontinue his speech, on the ground of tedious repetitions and irrelevancy.

Mr. FISHER moved that he be further heard. Question put; and the Committee divided :­

An;s, 20. Messrs. Reid, McDonald, Kerr, Harnacre, Ogden, King,

Browne, Jackson, Turley, "\V. Thorn, Fogarty, Drake, Powers, Rawlings, Daniels, Dawson, Dunsford, GJassey 1

Fisher, and Wilkinson. NoF.s, 38.

)fessrs. Nelson, Barlow, Tozer, Byrnes, Philp, Foxton, Dickson, mcMaster, G. Thorn, Armstrong, Cribb, Duffy, Stevens. Tooth, Lord, llell, Plunkett, O'Connell, Smith, Smyth, rrhomas, Battersby, Petrie, Grimes, Dalrymple, Callan, Phillips, Morehead, Kingsbury, Stephens, Allan, Cameron, Corfield, Chataway, Agnew, 1\Iidsou, Crombie, and Watson.

Resolved in the Legative. Mr. TURLEY again contended in support of

the amendment. The CHAIRMAN ordered the hon. member

to iiscontinue his speech on the ground of tedious repetition.

Mr. TURLEY moved that he be further heard. Question put; and the Committee divided:-·

AYES, 22. Messrs. Fisher, Wilkinson, Glassey, Powers, Dawson,

Dunsford, Jackson, Daniels, King, Groom, Fogarty, Drake, Rawlings, Browne, Turley, Ogden, Harda.cre, :UcDonald, Kerr, Reid, Cross, and )!organ.

NOES, 31, Messrs. Barlow, Tozer, Byrnes, G. Thorn, Dickson,

Philp, "\Vatson, Tooth, Foxton, Midson, Crombie, Petrie, Mdfaster, Allan, Corfield, Dalrymple, Stephens, Agnew, Kin~sbury, Smith, Callan, Phillips, Cameron, Chataway, Grimes, Thomas, Batters by, Plunkett, Stcvens, Smyth, andCribb.

P.UR. For-Mr. W. Thorn. Against-]fr. Bell. Question resolved in the negative. Mr. DANIELS again spoke in favour of the

amendment. The CHAIRMAN directed the hon. member

to discontinue his speech on the ground oftedious repetition.

Mr. DANIELS moved that he be further heard.

Question put; and the Committee divided :­AYEs, 22.

1\Iessrs. Hardacre, Kerr, l\.:lcDonald, Reid, Fogarty, Ogden, Rawlings, :Browne, Daniels, Groom, Drake, Cross, Powers, 'l'urley, Dawson, Dunsford, Jacksou, King, Glassey, '\Vilkinson, Fisher, and :M organ.

No>os, 34. :n.ressrs. Barlow, Tozer, Stevens, Byrnes, Philp, Lord,

Dickson, ChatawaY, G. Thorn, Kingsbury, Cribb, Tooth, Smyth, Thomas, Grimes, Cameron, Corfield, Dall'ymple, Phillips, Callan, Smith, Battersby, Stephens, Armstrong, Petrie, McJ\iaster, Midson, Agnew, Allan, Crombie, Foxton, ~""atson, Plunkett, and Leahy.

PAIR. For-Mr. W. Thorn. Against-Mr. Bell. Resolved in the negative. After further debate, The COLONIAL SECRETARY said the

Government were prepared to deal fs.irly with hon. members opposite ; they had no intention to hurry the Bill through. Why the discussion had taken place on clause 1 he was unable to conceive. He had not heard much objection to the first six clauses of the Bill. If hon. members would agree to pass these clauses, probably by that time it might be found that the circumstances of the colony were such that there would be no need to proceed further with the Bill. If the first part of the Bill was found sufficient the Government would be only too glad to stop t.here. The Government had no desire to· night to go beyond the 6th clause.

Mr. GLASSEY said he did not believe that any portion of the Bill was necessary, and be

522 Naming Members. [ASSEMBLY.] Naming Members.

would not be a party to passing ·one single clause or line in it. Was it the intention of the Govern­ment to proceed further to-night?

The COLONIAL SECRETARY replied that when th10 Chairman was able to report some pro­gress, something might be done; not before.

At twenty-five minutes to 1 o'clock, Mr. STEPHENS took the chair.

After further debate, Mr. KERR again spoke in favour of the

amendment. The ACTING CHAIRMAN said he had heard

the same arguments used at least fifty ·times during the night, and he directed the hon, member to discontinue his speech.

Mr. KERR moved that he be further heard. Question put; and the Committee divided :­

AYEs, 20. Messrs. Dawson, 'Vilkinson, Glassey, Daniels, Duns~

ford, Cross, King, Fogarty, Powers, Drake, Turley, Rawlings, Jackson, Browne, Reid, Ogden, McDonald, liardacre, Kerr, and Fisher.

NOES, 29. Messrs. Byrnes. Tozer, Bar!ow, Philp, G. Thorn, Cribb,

Chataway, Smith, Stevens, Callan, Thomas, Smyth, Plnnkett, Grimes, Battersby, Corfield, Cameron, Lord, Armstrong, Watson, Da!rymple, Petrie, Tooth, Phi!lips, Agnew, Midson, Mc:\faster, Annear, and Crombie.

PAIR, Fm~Mr. W. Thorn. Against-Mr. Bell. Resolved in the negative. Mr. BROWNE again spoke in favour of the

amendment. The ACTING CHAIRMAN said the hon.

member was using the same arguments that had been used over and over again during the evening, and he directed him to discontinue his speech.

Mr. BROWNE : I move that your ruling be disagreed to.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. mem­ber would be out of order in doing so. Does he wioh to move that he be further heard? . Mr. BROWNE: I want'to:make an explana­

twn. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. mem­

ber must either move that he be further heard or sit down.

Mr. BROWNE (amid uproar): I will not sit down until I have made an explanation. I have never been ruled out of order before.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : While I am standing here I am in possession of the chair, and if the hon. member does not sit down I will name him. ·

Mr. REID: I object to your ruling. Name me, too.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour Party (rising amid continued uproar)': Name us all while you are about it.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: If my authority is to be defied in this way, the only course I can adopt is to nan1e the hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, and the hon. member for Toowong, Mr . .Reid. I therefore name you, Mr. Browne, and you, Mr. Reid, for disorderly conduct.

The House resumed.

NAMING MEMBERS. Mr. STEPHENS: Mr. Speaker,-While in

the chair I asked the hon. "member for Croydon and the hon. member for Toowong to obey my ruling. I asked them on two or three occasions, and they absolutely declined to take their seats. I report them for disorder.

The SPEAKER : Do I understand that the hon. member reports them, or names them.

Mr. STEP HENS : I name them both. The SPEAKER: The hon. member must

name them separately. Mr. STEPHENS: Then I report that I have

named the hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, for disorderly conduct.

The SPEAKER : The Chairman reports that he has named the hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, for disorderly conduct.

The PREMIER : I have an extremely painful duty to perform. It having been reported tu the House that the Chairman has been obliged to name the hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, I beg to move that that hon. member be suspended from thP service of this House for one week. It is the custom in--

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. member cannot debate the question. It must be put forthwith.

Mr. PoWERS and other members of the Opposition attempted to address the Chair.

The SPEAKER : There can be no discussion on the motion. ·

Question-That the hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, be suspended from the service of the House for one week-put; and the House divided:-

AYEs, 30. Messrs. Nelson, Byrnes, Barlow, Tozer, Philp, Sn1yth,

Cameron, 1\icMaster, G. Thorn, Smith, Cribb, Thomas, Grimes, Plunkett, Corfield, Callau, Kingsbury, Crombie, Battersby, Phillips, Chataway, Lord, Tooth, Watson, Armstrong, Midson, Petrie, Dalrymple, Agnew, and Ann ear.

NoEs, 21. l\:1essrs. Powers, Drake, Cross, Glassey, Hardacre,

Kerr, Fisher, Wilkinson, Mm·gan, Boles, King, Dunsford, Reid, :McDonald, Raw1ings, Jackson, Dawson, Turley, Browne, Ogden, and Daniels.

PAIR. For-Mr. BelL Against-JIIr. W. Thorn. Resolved in the affirmative. In division, Mr. HARDACRE said : Mr. Speaker,-!

desire to challenge this division. The SPEAKER : The hon. member cannot

challenge it now. The result of the division having been an­

nounced, The SPEAKER said : I now call upon the

hon. member for Croydon, Mr. Browne, to leave the House, and the precincts of the House.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour party : Let them arrest you.

The hon. member remaining in his seat, The SPEAKER said : Sergeant-at-Arms,

remove the hon. member for Uroydon, Mr. Browne, from the House, and the precincts of the House. Messengers, assist the Sergeant in the performance of his duty.

The hon. member was thereupon removed. HONOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour party :

Hip, hip, hurrah ! Mr. HARD ACRE : Coercion ! The SPEAKER: The hon. member for

Leichhardt must withdraw the word "coercion," and apologise to the House. ,

Mr. HARDACRE : I willingly withdraw it. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I also named

the hon. member for Toowong, Mr. Reid, for disorderly conduct and disregarding the authority of the Chair.

The SPEAKER: The Acting Chairman reports having named the hon. member for Toowong for disorderly conduct and disregarding the authority of the Chair.

The PREMIER: It is my most painful duty to move that the hon. member who has been reported as having been named to the Committee be suspended from the service of the House for one week.

Mr. HARD ACRE said: Mr. Speaker,-I call your attention to Standing Order 120.

The SPEAKER: There can be no debate on the question.

Mr. GLASSEY: Will you allow me to make an explanation, please ?

The SPEAKER : The hon. member cannot discuss the question.

Mr. REID: The Chairman told a lie about me.

Naming Members. [11 SEl'TEMBER.] Naming Members. 523

The SPEAKER: Order, order! Mr. GLASSEY: Surely there can be some

explanation given. The SPEAKER : Order, order ! Mr. POWERS: Mr. Speaker,-The Standing

Orders provide that a member shall withdraw while his conduct is under consideration.

Question put ; and the House divided :­AYEs, 29.

Messrs. Nelson, Barlow, Byrnes, Tozer, Philp, Oorfield, Grimes, G. 'rhorn, Cameron, McMaster, Smith, Smyth, Thomas,Callan, Plunkett, Crombie, Battersby, Phillips, Lord, Kingsbury, Chataway, Tooth, Armstrong, Watson, )fidson, Petrie, Dalrymple, Agnew, and Annear.

NOES, 20, Messrs. Powers, Drake, Cross, Glassey, Hardacre,

Kerr, Fisher, King, Dunsford, Reid, McDonald, 1\forgan, Boles, Rawlings, Jackson, Dawson, Turley, '\Vilkinson, Ogden, and Daniels.

PAIR. For-Mr. Bell. Against-Mr. W. Thorn. Resolved in the affirmative. The SPEAKER : Order ! I now call upon

the hon. member for Toowong, Mr. Reid, to leave the House, and the precincts of the House.

The hon. membAr remaining seated, The SPEAKER directed the Sergeant-at­

Arms to remove him, and the hon. member was removed accordingly.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour party: Hip, hip, hurrah!

Mr. McDONALD (amid uproar, was heard to say): The gag of a brutal Government! Coercion!

The SPEAKER : Order, order ! Mr. McDONALD: I repeat it. What do I

care ; you can name me, too. The SPEAKER: I have repeatedly called the

hon. member for :Flinders to order for disorderly conduct and interruptions, and I now name you, Mr. McDonald, for disorderly conduct and interruptions, and disregarding the authority of the Chair,

Mr. McDONALD : A brutal Speaker instead of a brutal Chairman !

The SPEAKER : Order ! The PREMIER : It gives me extreme pain to

move that the hon. member for Flinders, Mr. McDonald, be suspended from the service of the House for one week.

Question put ; and the House divided :­AYEs, 31.

:Messrs. Nelson, :Barlow, Byrnes, Tozer, Philp, G. Thorn, Cameron, 1\fcMaster, Smith, Smyth, Thomas, Stevens, Grimes, Corfield, Callan, Plnnkett, Crombie, Battersby, Phillips, Lord, Kingsbury, Chataway, Tooth, Armstrong, ·watson, l\fidson, Petrie, Dalrymple, Agnew, Stephens, andAnnear.

Nm;s, 20. :i\:iessrs. Powers, Drake, Cross, Glassey, Hardacre,Ker1·.

Turley, Dawson, King, Dunsford, 1\icDonald, M01·gan, Boles, Rawlings, Jackson, Ogden, Daniels, Willdnson, Fisher, and Fogarty.

l'AIR. For-Mr. Bell. Against-Mr. W. Thorn. Resolved in the affirmative. Mr. GLASSEY: Mr. Speaker--The SPEAKER : I now call upon the hon.

member for F!inders, Mr. McDonald, to with­draw from the House, and the precincts of the House.

The hon. member remaining seated, The SPEAKER directed his removal by the

Sergeant-at-Arms, and he was removed accord­ingly.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour party : Hip, hiJ>, hurrah !

Mr. McDONALD (leaving the Chamber): A brutal Speaker and a brutal Government!

The Committee resumed ; and as the Speaker was leaving the chair,

Mr. DA WSON said he wished to protest against the dishonourable proceedings which had taken place.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. member,resume his chair~

Mr. DA WSON : I protest against-­HoNOURABLE MEMBERS on Government side :

Order, order! Mr. DA WSON continued speaking, but his

remarks were indistinguishable amid the uproar. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: If the hon.

member does not take his chair I will at once name him.

Mr. DA WSON : You may do as you please. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : I name the

hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson. Mr. GLASSEY: Mr. Stephens-The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will you take

your chair while I a.m standing? I am waiting for Mr. Speaker. When the Speaker leaves the chair and the Committee resumes I shall be most happy to hear the hon. member for Burke, In the meantime I have named the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson.

Mr. DA WSON: I am entitled to make an explanation under the Standing Orders.

The House resumed. The ACTING CHAIRMAN reported that he

had named the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson, for disorderly conduct and defying the chair.

The SPEAKER: The Acting Chairman re· ports that he has named the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson, for disorderly' conduct and defying the chair.

The PREMIER : I mo,·e that the hon. mem­ber for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson, be sus­pended from the service ot the House for one week.

Mr. GLASSEY (amid uproar): You will suspend the whole of us, then.

Question put, and division called for. Mr. HARD ACRE: I desire to test the legality

of the division. The SPEAKER: The hon. member is out of

order ; he must know that the Speaker has no knowledge of what has taken place in com­mittee.

Mr. DUNSFORD: I refer you to Standing Order No. 120. I think that guides you; just look at it, please.

Mr. SPEAKER: Order, order ! I now call upon the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dawson, to leave the House--

Mr. GLASSEY: A division has been called for.

The SPEAKER: I must ask hon. members to maintain silence, as it is utterly impossible for me to hear what is said. Ring the bell, Sergeant.

The House divided. Mr. GLASSEY: Are we to sit here and be

gagged without any opportunity of explanation ? 1 say the whole of the proceedings are illegal.

The SPEAKER : Order, order ! Mr. POWERS: I would aRk you again, Sir,

that the hon. member be allowed to be heard in explanation.

The SPEAKER : Order ! The hon. member knows that there can be no debate on the question, and that the Speaker has no knowledge of what has taken place in committee.

Mr. POWERS : But when a member is charged he should have the right to be heard.

The ATTORNEY-GENERAL: This is not a charge.

Mr. POWERS: It is a charge. Mr. GLASSEY: Never mind; let them

pursue their own wretched, wicked course. The SPEAKER: Order, order! Mr. POWERS: We cannot have order with

that Chairman. The SPEAKER : I must request hon. mem­

bers to keep order. Mr. POWERS : We cannot under these

circumstances.

524 Naming Memoers. [ASSEMBLY.] Naming Memoers.

An,s, 30. Messrs. Nelson, Tozer, Barlow, Philp, Crombie, Lord,

Byrnes, Chataway, G. Thorn, Ca.meron, Smith, Phillips, Smyth, Grimes, Stevens, McJ.Iaster, Thomas, Corfield, Callan, Plunkett, Battersby. Kingsbury, Agnew. Petrie, Tooth, Armstrong, Watson, ~lidson, Dalrymple, and Ann ear.

NOES, 19. J\Iessrs, Powers, Drake, Cross, Glassey, Turley, Mm•gan,

Dunsford, Hardacre, Kerr, King, Boles, Rawlings, Ogden, JacksOn, Dawson, Daniels, Fogarty, Wilkinson, and Fisher.

PAIR. For-~Il". Bell. Against-~1r. W. Thorn. Resolved in the affirmative. The result of the division having been an­

nounced, The SPEAKER : I now call upon the hon.

member for Charters Towers, :iYir. Dawson, to leave the House, and the precincts of the House.

The hon. member remaining seated, The SPEAKER: Sergeant-at-Arms, remove

Mr. Dawson from the House, and the precincts of the House.

The hon. mamber was thereupon removed. HoNOURABLE MEMBEHS of the Labour party:

Hip, hip, hurrah ! Mr. DUNSFORD : Before you leave the

chair. Standing Order 120--Mr. RA \VLINGS: Before you leave the

chair, Mr. Speaker--The Committee resumed. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon.

member will be seated. The PREMIER said those proceedings were

unique in the hiRtory of the colony. Ho!WURABLE MEliiBERS: Hear, hear ! The PREMIER said the proceedings must

have given every member of the Committee the utmost pain. In order to allow members some little time to consider the position, and feeling that the Committee was not in a mood for furbher business, he moved that the Acting Chairman leave the chair, report no progress, and ask leave to sit again.

Question put. Mr. GLASSEY confessed that he was wonder­

fully and disagreeably disappointed at the pro­ceedings which had taken place that morning. If the Acting Chairman had kept cool, and had allowed hon. members to explain the position--

The PREMIER : I rise to a point of order. Mr. GLASSEY: I hope the Premier will

allow me to proceed. The PREMIER said he had risen to a point

of order. The hon. member was beginning to cribicise the acbion of the House.

HoNOURABLE ME;)fBERS of the Opposition: No; the action of the Chairman.

The PREMIER said the hon. member was criticising the action of the House. If he wanted to criticise the action of the Chairman, it must be done by a motion.

Mr. GLASSEY: I want to ask a question. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­

ber will be seated. A point of order has been raised that the hon. member for Burke is pro­ceeding to lecture upon what hon. members have already done. Some members think he was lecturing the Chair. From what has occurred here this morning, I think it is evident that the Chairman is quite able to take care of himself. I shall endeavour to do so, and if anyone says any-· thing derogatory to the Chair, I shall deal with him under the Standing Orders. On the point of order raised by the Premier, I rule that the hon. member for Burke is out of order if he attempts to lecture upon what has already happened.

Mr. GLASSEY would keep within the pre­scribed limits. What he was going to suggest was that if the Acting Chairman had per­mitted--

The PREMIER : Will you g-ive us the ques­tion, Mr. Stephens.

Mr. GLASSEY : I hope the Premier will keep his temper.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The question is that I do now leave the chair, and I should like to hear some arguments either for or against that motion. Any arguments used must be confined to the motion.

Mr. GLASSEY said the Premier, in moving the Acting Chairman out of the chair, only gave the reason that the Committee was not in a fit mood to conduct business. He thought that neither the Premier nor bbe Acting Chairman were in a fit mood to conduct business. He said that in all $incerity, and if that were not so the expulsion of four hon. members would never have taken place. Those hon. members--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem her is out of order. Will the hon. member be seated? The hon. member must give reasons why I should or should not leave the chair.

Mr. GLASSEY: If you think you are going to bully-

The ACTING CHAIRMAN (amid interrup­tions): The hon. member will be seated. If the hon. member stands up again I shall have to

name him. Mr. TURLEY (being seated): Hon. members

are trying to discuss the matter, and you won't let them.

The ACTING CHAI!1MAN: Order, order! Mr. TURLEY : Hon. members have referred

you to the Standing Orders. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: If the hon.

member conbinues his remarks I will name him, too.

Mr. TURLEY: You are quite welcome to do so. You might as well.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I warn the hon. member that I shall name him if he con­tinues these remarks.

Mr. PowERS rose to speak. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­

ber will take his chair while I am standing. Mr. TURLEY : You may as well name the

lot of us now, as you h:we gone so far. You are cutting down the num hers on this side, so that the Government may apply the cl6ture at any time.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I name the hon. member for South Brisbane, Mr. Turley, for continually disregarding the Chair. (Up­roar.)

Mr. RA WLINGS: Mr. Stephens, I wish to ask you a question.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. mem­ber will be seated. I am waiting for Mr. Speaker.

The House resumed. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I report that I

have named the hon. member for South Brisbane, Mr. Turley, for continued disorder and disregard­ing the authority of the Chair.

The SPEAKER : The Acting Chairman reports that he has named the hon. member for South Brisbane, Mr. Turley, for continued dis­order and for disregarding the authority of the Chair.

Mr. HARDACRE (amid interruptions and confusion) : That report is a false one.

The SPEAKER : Order, order ! The PREMIER : I now move that the hon.

member for South Brisbane, Mr. Turley, be suspended from the service of this House for one week.

Question put ; and the House divided:-AYEs, 30.

Messrs. Nelson, Barlow, Byl'nes, Tozer, Philp, Smith, 1\icl\faster, Cameron, Smyth, Grimes, Stevens, Callan, Thomas, Corfielcl, Plunkett, Chataway, Battersby, Phillips, Lord, Kingsbury, Armstrong, 1Vatson, Midson, Petrie, Dalrymple, .Annear, Agnew, G. Tllorn, Tooth, and Crombie, ''

Naming Members. [11 SEPTEMBER.] Naming Members. 525

Nm:s, 18, Messrs. Powers, Drake, Cross, Glassey, Dunsford,

Hardacre, Kerr, King, Turley, 1\forgan, Jackson, Boles, Rawlings, Ogden~ Daniels, 1Yilkinson, Fisher, and Fogarty.

PAIR. For-l\Ir. Bell. Against-Mt'. W. Thorn. ln d! VISIOn,

Mr. GLASSEY: Might I. be permitted to draw your attention, Mr. Speaker-- .

The SPEAKER: Order ! The hon. member is out of order.

Mr. DUNSI<'ORD: Standing Order No. 120 should be read to this House.

Mr. HARDACRE : I question the legality of this division under Standing Order No. 120, and I ask that my protest be taken down.

Division declared. The SPEAKER: I now call upon you, Mr.

Turley, to leave the House and the precincts of the House.

The hon. member remaining seated, The SPEAKER said: Sergeant-at-Arms,

remove the hon. member, lYir. Turley. The hon. member was thereupon removed. HoNOURABLE MEii!BERS of the Labour party :

Hip, hip, hurrah ! Mr. GLASSEY: Will you allow me, before

you leave the chair, Mr. Speaker, to read St~tnrl­ing Order 120?

The Committee resumed, The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon.

member will be seated while I put the question. Question put. Mr. GLASSEY: I desire to call your atten­

tion to the fact that I believe the whole proceed­ings are cruel, monstrous, wrong, and illegal.

'rhe ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will resume his seat. The question is that I leave the chair. It has nothing whatever to do with the proceedings, which can be debated at the proper time. So long as the question is that I do now leave the chair, I want you to confine yourself to that question.

Mr. GLASSEY: I desire to rf'ad this Stand­ing Order 120. I have already said the whole proceedings are illegal.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I again point out to the hon. member-will the hon. member take his seat. The late proceedings have nothing to do with the question, which is simply whether I shall leave the chair or remain in it. I have cautioned the hon. member to ~peak to that question. I do not want to name him. I have cautioned him a couple of times, and I shall have tu call upon him to resume his seat if he persists in disregarding the Chair.

Mr. GLASSBY: If the Committee is to be coerced in this manner, you have no business in the chair. You can leave the chair or do as you think proper. I ask you to read Standing Order 120. You will not do so, and I now leave this Chamber and allow you to proceed as you like.

Mr. POWERS : I think the time has come when you should leave that chair, and I hope that in your interests and in the interests of the House you will never taki\ the chair again.

Mr. HARD ACRE said that before the Acting Chairman left the chair he wished to give a rea­son why the Chairman should not leave the chair just then. It was exceptiona,lly desirable, in the interests of the colony, in the interests of the House, and in the interests of any division which might be taken afterwards, that thev should have Borne explanation with regard to 'the Standing Orders. Standing Order 120--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­ber has just now heard me rule another hon. member out of order for reading the Standing Orders. The question is that I do leave the chair; and has no reference to anything which

transpired before. The hon. member must limit himself to the question, and if he does not do so I will name him also.

Mr. HARD ACRE: Before you leave the chair it is advisable that there should be some explanation--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member cannot bring in new business like that. The only business which can be discussed by the Committee is the Bill before us, and that cannot be discussed now until the question that I leave the chair has been decided. The hon. rn6mber cannot raise a point of order on that question. He can move that my ruling be disagreed to, and take the sense of the Committee. He cannot raise a point of order on the Chairman's ruling.

Mr. HARDACRE: I want to raise a point of order on the proceedings--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: If the hon. member does not address himself to the question that I leave the chair, I shall call him to order and name him.

Mr. HARD"'\.CRE: Can I not disagree with the action that ha" taken place?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. member cannot do so by raising a point of order on the question that I leave the chair.

The PREMIER: The hon. member can give notice of motion to-morrow, when the House meets. That is the proper way to proceed.

Mr. HARD ACRE: That is what I wanted to know. I hope you will leave the chair, and at once.

Mr. RA WLINGS: I do not think you should leave the chair until you have given some ex­planation in regard to the charge made against you by the member for Croydon. He said you had promised outside to put the gag on this party--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. member resume his spat? The question is that I leave the chair, and that is the only question the hon. member can now di~cnss.

Mr. DUNSFORD: I rise to ask you for your reasons for this conduct?

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member is out of order. If you want to discuss any action of mine you can give notice of motion and get it before the House in the ordinary way. This is not the proper time to do it.

Mr. DUN8JfORD : I want your reasons for your conduct, You came in here in a h~tlf-sleepy, half-drunken condition--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will be seated.

HONOURABLE MEMBERS on the Government benches : Order!

Mr. DUNSFORD (amid cries of "Order !" and uproar): You came in here to bully members on this side of the Committee.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will the hon. mPrnber take his seat?

Mr. DUNSFORD: Certainly not. The ACTING CHAIRMAN: Then I name

the hon. member, Mr. Duusford, to the Com­mittee.

Mr. DUNSFORD: I wish to protest against your conduct this morning.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will you sit down?

Mr. DUNSFORD: No. You stated your intention bgfore you came into the House.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: W1Il the hon. member sit down? ~

HONOURABLE ME31BERS : "Bully!" and other interjections.

Mr. DUNSFORD: You said you had a plan made out to deal with us. Y on have treated members here very unfairly.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will you sit down?

525 Naming Members. [ASSEMBLY.] Naming Members.

JYir. DUNSFORD (amid continued uproar): You came in here in a half-sleepy condition ~tnd not knowing what you are doing. Th& other Chairman knew how to conduct himself.

The House resumed, The ACTING CHAIRMAN : I report that I

have named the hon. member for Charters TowerR, Mr. Dunsford, for disorderly conduct and abming and defying the Chair.

The SPEAKER : The Chairman reports that he has named the hon. member for Charters Towers, Mr. Dunsford, for continued disorderly conduct and abusing the Chair.

The PREMIER : I move that the hon. mem­ber, Mr. Dunsford, who has been named, be suspended from the service of the House for one week.

Queation put ; and the Committee divided :­AYEs, 31.

:;\iessrs. Nelson~ Byrnes, Barlow, Tozer, Philp, G. Thorn, Cron1bie, l\fclfaster, Cameron, Agnew, Smith, Smyth, Grimes, Stevens, Foxton, Thomas, Chataway, Callan. Corlield, Plnnkett, Battersby, Phillips, Lord, Kingsbury, ·watson, Armstrong, Midson, Dalrymple, Petrie, Annear, and Tooth.

NoEs, 17. :Messrs. Powers, Glassey, Hardacre, Dunsford, Kerr,

Cross, Rawlings, King, :Morgan, Drake, Daniels, Ogden, Jackson, '\Vilkinson, Fisher, Fogarty, and Boles.

PAIR. For-Mr-. Bell. Against-Mr. W. Thorn. In division, JYir. GLASSEY: Allow me before the ques­

tion goes to make an explanation--The SPEAKER: Order! JYir. GLASSEY: I shall do so in a very few

minutes. The SPEAKER : Will the hon. member be

seated? · JYir. GLASSEY: All I desire to do is to read

Standing- Order 120. · The SPEAKER : Order! Division declared. The SPEAKER : I now call upon the hon.

member for Charters Towers, l\fr. Dunsford, to leave the House, and the precincts of the House.

Mr. DUNSFORD: Send along your forces, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER : Sergeant-at-Arms, remove the hon. member, Mr. Dunsford.

The hon. member was thereupon removed amid cheers from the members of the Labour party.

The SPEAKER : I would exhort hon. mem­bers to pause and consider well what they are doing. I am sure everyone in the House and everyone in the country will regret exceedingly the occurrences that have taken place.

Mr. FISHER: Mr. Speaker-The SPEAKER: Order ! I understand that

it is the wish of the Premier that the Committee should report progress, and then to move the adjournment of the House. I consider that would be a wise course to adopt, and I would appeal to hon. members to be guided in this matter by their better feelings and their common sense. There is no question to retain me in the chair, and the Committee will now resume.

The Committee resumed. HONOURABLE MEMBERS of the Labour party:

Here he (the Chairman) comes again. Mr. FISHER asked whether the question

before the Committee was debateable? The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon.

member must use his own arguments, and I will tell him quickly whether he is in order or not.

JYir. FISHER expressed his regret that the Acting Chairman had been so long in the chair, and at the circumstances that had taken place. He believed that had the Chairman been in the chair they would not have had the painful, sad, and deplorable condition of affairs that existed ~t the present time. Queensland would now

stand before Australia as an example of un· paralleled barbarism in the conduct of its legis­lature. He thought it was the aim of members on both sides to smooth down the asperities and rancorous feelings which had been raised under that Bill, but opportunity was not given to them to do so. They found, instead of advice being givP.n to them from the Chair--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. mem­ber cannot make any remarks reflecting on the action of the Chair.

Mr. FISHER had no intention of going any further. He wished to say plainly that he hoped the House would never be degraded in a similar manner again.

Mr. GLASSEY: And I hope we will never have such a deg<aded Chairman again.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. member must withdraw that remark immediately. If he does not I will name him.

Mr. GLASSEY: Oh, you can name me. I must be permitted to explain, or I will not withdraw.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member will withdraw it at once, or I will name him to the House.

Mr. GLASSEY: Oh, you can name me if you like.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Does the hon. gentleman defy the Chair?

Mr. GLASSEY: Yes, unless I am allowed to explain.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Then I will name the hon. gentleman. Bring the Speaker in. The hon. gentleman will resume his seat.

Mr. GLASSEY (in the midst of uproar was heard to say): I say you are a disgrace to any Assembly-utterly unfit to occupy the chair.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will the hon. gentleman resume his seat?

lYir. GLASSEY : A crawling creature like you to try and bounce members of this House.

JYir. HARD ACRE: There are members on the other side who are shameful enough to support him

The House having resumefl, The ACTING U HAIRMAN: I have to report

that I have named the hon. member for Burke, Mr. Glassey, for disorderly conduct and openly defying the Chair.

The SPEAKER : The Acting Chairman reports that he has named the hon. member for BnrkA, Mr. Glassey, for diBorderly conduct and defying the Chair.

Mr. GLASSEY: The report of the Chairman is false.

Mr. HARD ACRE: So it is. The PREMIER : I beg to move that the hon.

member for Burke be suspended from the service of the House for one week.

Mr. RA ·wLINGS: Don't you feel ashamed of yourself?

Question put; and the House divided:­AxEs, 31.

Messrs. Nelson, Barlow, Byrnes, Tozer, Phil_p, Crombie, G. Thorn, M cM aster, Cameron, Agnew, Smith, Smyth, Grimes, Stevens, Foxton, Thomas, Chataway, Corfield, Plunkett, Battersby, Phillips, Lord, Callan, Kingsbnry, Armstrong, 1Vatson, Midson, Petrie, Dalr:.rmple, Annear, and Tooth.

NoEs.l6. :Messrs. Powers, Glassey. Hardacre, Ra.wlings, Kerr,

King, Cross, Jackson, Mm•gan. Drake, Daniels, Fisher, Fogarty, Boles, Ogden, and Wilkinson.

PAIR. For-Mr. Bell. Against-Mr. W. Thorn. Re8olved in the affirmative. In the division, Mr. HAHDACRE : I desire to question the

legality of this division. It is perfectly illegal. The SPEAKER : Order! Mr. HARD ACRE : Am I allowed to raise the

question of legality ?

1Vam%nq Members, [11 SEPTEMBER.] Na1Jting Members. 527

The SPEAKER : The hon. gentleman cannot do so. The question must be put entirely without debate.

Mr. HARD ACRE : I ask that my protest be taken down.

Mr. GLASSEY: I wish to say before leav­ing--

The SPEAKER: Order, order! l now call upon the hon. member for Burke, Mr. Glassey, to leave the House, and the precincts of the House.

Mr. GLASSEY : I wish to say befo1e leaving that you have been entirely misinformed. I never defied the ruling of the Chair. All I desired was that an explanation should take place.

The SPEAKER: Order, order! The hon. member was then removed from the

Chamber by the Sergeant-at-Arms amid cheers from hon. members of the Labour party.

The Committee res11med. Mr. FISHER thought they had added

another disgrace to that morning's proceedings. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : Will the hon.

member confine himself to the question before the Committee?

Mr. FISHER said if the motion for the Chair­man to leave the chair had been moved an hour earlier, the colony would have been saved a great deal of disgrace. He did not see after what had taken place that there was any necessity for the Chairman to leave the chair at that time of the morning; but he thought there was sufficient public spirit in members to induce them tfJ save further trouble by adjourning so as to give their minds a rest, and thus become calm enough to reasonably con­sider certain grave question~ that had arisen. He thought he would be failing in a public duty if he did not ask the Acting Chairman to express regret for what had taken place, so that members might try and wipe out some of the serious and lamentable occurrences that hnd taken place. He expressed the opinions of others besides himself. Mally of them were in high temper, and indeed it would be strange if they did not feel strongly regarding the position of affairs. Theirs was a party whose aim had always been to do that which was upright, truthful, and just, and the feelings of members had been outraged in a manner that had never before been attempted in any Assembly in the world. He trusted when they calmly considered the question of the exclusion of those members who had been excluded they wonld once more be seen in their places and that the restrictions would be removed.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The question is not whether the members excluded be allowed to come back or not. The question is whether I leave the chair or not.

Mr. JACKSON desired to give a reason why the Acting Chairman should not leave the chair. Certain members had been suspended ; the country was dying for that Bill to go through the House. Let the Government take advantage now of their majority, and hand their names down to posterity in disgrace.

Mr. HARDACRE understood that the motion was that the Acting Chairman leave the chair, and report no progress. He did not know whether he was in order, but be begged to move as an amendment that the Acting Chairman leave the chair, and report with regret to Mr. Speaker the proceedings that have taken place, and especially his own action.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­ber is out of order. It was not I that took the action, It was the Committee that took it,

Mr. DANIELS hoped when the Acting Chair­man left the chair and the House adjourned it would not meet again until the time for which members had been excluded bad expired, because it looked as if it had been done purposely--

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member must not impute motives to the Com­mittee.

Mr. DANIELS said it was not fair to that side of the House for the Government to push the Bill through in the absence of hon. members.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. gentleman is clearly out of order. He must not say the action of the Government is not fair, especially when they do not propose to go on with business.

Mr. KERR objected to the motion to report no progress, as progress had been made. He also objected, for the reason given by the hon. mem­ber for Kennedy-that the country was dying for the Bill. They wanted it out West to preserve the peace, and it was time they had it. He did not see why they should not sit until the Bill was passed, as the Government had now got a majority. Deplorable measures had been resorted to, and members had been removed from the Chamber, besides which the Acting Chairman had stated that he would sit on mem­bers of that Committee.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. gentleman resume his seat? I never said that I would sit on anyone. '

Mr. HARD ACRE: Yes; you did, to me. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : I never spoke

to the hon. gentleman. Mr. HARDACRE: You did. The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon.

gentleman will have to take my denial, or I will have to name him too.

Mr. FISHER wished to ask the Premier whether it was fair for the Acting Chairman to make a statement when there was no reply?

The AC'l'ING CHAIRMAN: I will make no statement until it appears in print.

Mr. FISHER respectfully requested the Com­mittee to view the matter reasonably. It might be necessary to go into the law courts regarding the matter.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The motion is that I do now leave the chair. There is no law court business about it.

Mr. KERR thought it would be a pity if the Acting Chairman left the chair. Let them attend to their duties an-:1 pass the measure through, and the country would then know how it had been forced through the House.

Mr. POWERS thought they must all deplore what had taken place. He saw smiles on the other side.

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS : No, no ! and Hear, hear!

Mr. POWERS did not see anyone on the Ministerial benches smiling, but there were some behind Ministers who were. It really was no joke. It was a very sad occurrence, and he hoped members would be allowed to bring the matter up to-morrow, as it was one that could well be debated.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: Will the hon. member confine himself to the motion? It has nothing to do with to-morrow. ·

Mr. POWERS: I am trying to point out that to-morrow will be an opportunity of referring to the matter. Everyone must deplore what has taken place, and as no latitude has been allowed there has been a good deal of anger shown. They all lost their tempers on his side, and necessarily

528 .Adjournment. [COUNCIL.] .Adjournment.

so. The man who could see members removed in the way they have been, and keep his temper, could stand anything.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : I have listened to the hon. member, and cannot tell what he is talking about. He seems to be talking about the action of the House, and not about the adjournment. I ltlust ask him to confine his remarks purely to the motion that I leave the chair.

Mr. POvVERS said the sooner the Acting Chairman left the chair the better for everyone, and he thought the motion should be carried ; but he was trying to point out that there was no time to discuRs that matter, and they were not in a fit frame of mind to discuss it. He was not himself. He considered himself as guilty as the hon. member for Toowong and the hon. mem-

, ber for Croydon, who had been turned out. The SECRETARY FOR LANDS: No, you are not. Mr. POWERS said he was quite. Mr. HARDACRE wished to make a protest

against any further action being taken while certain members had been suspended illegally.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. member is out of- order in saying any action of the House is illegal. The hon. gentleman has already sttempted that on three occasions. If the hon. men1ber persists in doing that, I shall have to order him to resume his seat.

Mr. HARDACRE was trying to make a formal objection to anything being done while certain members were not present.

Mr. FISHER would like to ask whether the Premier had any statement to make before the Acting Chairman left the chair? He understood the Speaker to say that the Premier had a state­ment to make.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: I understand from the Premier that he does not intend to make a statement now. If he intends to speak when Mr. Speaker is in the chair I do not know.

Mr. OG DEN understood that the Premier was going to make a statement, and was hoping he would tell them that the next time they me£ the House would be adjourned again until members who had been suspended were in their places.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN: The hon. mem­ber has nothing to do with what may occur or with what the Premier may say. He must con­fine his remarks to the motion that I leave the chair.

Mr. OGDENhoped when the Acting Chairman left the chair he would never get into it again, and he hoped--

HoNOURABLE MEMBERS on the Government side : Order, order ! Question !

Mr. OGDEN said that was the question. He hoped the Acting Chairman would never get into the chair again while he was in the House, and he repeated that his action was a disgrace.

The ACTING CHAIRMAN : The hon. member has made a remark addresseil to me personally, which I will let go, and not call upon him to withdraw.

Mr. OGDEN: Then I withdraw it. Question-That the Chairman leave the chair,

report no progress, and ask leave to sit again­put and passed.

The House resumed ; the Chairman reported no progress, and leave was given to the Corn- 1

mittee to sit again at a later hour.

ADJOURNMENT. The PREMIER : I move that this House do

now adjourn. The Government business for 'Vednesday will be the same that has occupied the Committee this evening.

Mr. FISHER: It has been stated that the Premier intended to make a statement--

The SPEAKER: The hon. member will be out of order in referring to what has occurred in the Committee.

Mr. POWERS: I want to know whether I shall be in order in giving a formal notice of motion with regard to what has occurred to. night?

The SPEAKER: It is too late to give notice now. The hon. member can give notice in the usual way.

Mr. FISHER: I wish to ask whether it would not be advisable to adjourn the House for a week, until the expelled members are able to resume their seats?

The SPEAKER : The hon. member , has already spoken. ·

Mr. OG DEN : On behalf of the hon. member · for Gym pie, I will ask the same question.

The SPEAKER: The hon. member can only address the House on the question that this House do now adjourn.

Question put and passed. The House adjourned at twenty-eight minutes

to 3 o'clock.