LEAD Center Webinar - Maintaining Employment Through Economic

Advancement Strategies - Transcript>> Elizabeth Jennings: Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us for today's LEAD

Center webinar, part of our Promoting Economic Advancement webinar series, Maintaining

Employment Through Economic Advancement Strategies. I will be your facilitator today. My name

is Elizabeth Jennings. And I'm the assistant project director for the LEAD Center. I'm also thrilled

to have joining us today, Abby Cooper. She's a subject matter expert with the LEAD Center

focusing on customized employment and economic advancement. For those of you who are new to

our webinars, the National Center on Leadership for the Employment and Economic Advancement

of People with Disabilities, also called the LEAD Center, is a collaborative of disability, workforce,

and economic empowerment organizations led by National Disability Institute with funding from

the US Department of Labor's Office of Disability Employment Policy. It looks like our partners

from the Department of Labor Office of Disability Employment Policy have not yet been able to

join us. So we'll hope to hear from them later in today's webinar. I'd now like to invite my

colleague, Nakia Matthews to provide us with some housekeeping tips.

>> Nakia Matthews: Good afternoon everyone. The audio for today's webinar is being broadcast

through your computer. Please make sure your speakers are turned on or your headphones are

plugged in. You can control the audio broadcast via the audio broadcast panel which you see

below. And if you accidentally closed this panel or if the sound stops, you can reopen it by going to

the top menu item, Communicate and Join Audio Broadcast. If you do not have sound capabilities

on your computer or you prefer to listen by phone, you can dial the toll or toll-free number that

you see here and enter the meeting code. And when you do this, you do not need to enter an

attendee ID. And I will also paste this number and code into the chat box. Real-time captioning is

provided during this webinar. The captions can be found in the media viewer panel, which

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media viewer. There will be a question and answer portion at the end of the webinar. You can use

the Q&A box or the chat box to send any questions that you may have to us at--I'm sorry. And you

may contact Elizabeth Jennings if you're listening by phone only at ejennings@ndi-inc.org. Please

note that this webinar is being recorded and the materials will be placed on the LEAD Center

website at the URL that you see below. If you experience any technical difficulties during the

webinar, you can use the chat box to send me, Nakia Matthews, a message or you may also email

me directly at nmatthews@ndi-inc.org.

>> Elizabeth: Thank you, Nakia. The LEAD Center mission is to advance sustainable individual

and systems level change that results in improved, competitive integrated employment and

economic self-sufficiency outcomes for individuals across the spectrum of disability.

[ Pause ]

Today's agenda is going to include the impact of financial stress on productivity. Our current

approach to employment services, as well as shifting the focus to include financial issues, needs,

and opportunities in employment planning, how and when to address financial needs and goals,

and next steps for working professionals--I'm sorry, for workforce professionals and for

organizational leadership. Again, if you have any questions, we're going to have time for that at the

end of the webinar. But we also encourage you to submit questions throughout into the chat box

into the Q&A area, or if you're offline, to please email me, Elizabeth Jennings, at ejennings@ndi-

inc.org. As a result of today's webinar, we believe that you will have a better understanding of the

impact of financial stress on employment, the importance of including financial capability as part

of the employment plan, the basics of how and when to talk to customers about their finances,

steps you can take in the short and long-term, and resources to support you along the way.

Without further ado, I'd like to invite Abby Cooper to present, and we're just so thrilled to have

Abby today and I'm grateful to all of you for joining us to hear from her. Welcome, Abby. And Abby,

it just looks like you're on mute.

>> Abby Cooper: Thank you. I was just asking if I was on mute.

>> Elizabeth: We have you now. Thank you so much, Abby.

>> Abby: That's OK. Thank you everyone. I'm thrilled that everyone has joined and I had this first

slide here on why is this part of my job? Because I think some of you on the line know very well

why it's part of your job. And others of you on the line feel like, whoa, I already have so much to

do. And now here's another piece that I need to think about. And I hope by the end of this webinar,

you will realize there's some things that you can do that will help you think about this issue and

will not be too taxing. And I just want to start with a very quick story in terms of why this issue

had become so near and dear to my heart. This was many years ago. I placed a gentleman in the

Bremerton shipyard and I placed him out of a sheltered workshop where he was earning about 50

cents an hour to a job where he was earning 10 dollars an hour. And for quite a while, about a

year, life was swell. His job was going well. He had money. He was doing well. And then one day he

just quit his job. And he came into my office and he said, "I quit my job." And I kind of said, "Well,

why?" And he said, "Well, I get money anyways, don't I? I always got my Social Security, so why

wouldn't I always get my paycheck?" He has no idea that there was a correlation between your

paycheck and working. And that made me realize that I had made a lot of assumptions that people

know things that sometimes they do and sometimes they don't, but how important it is to have

conversations. And I can turn these myself, right? Yeah. OK, so first, let's talk about the impact of

personal finances on employment. And this is nothing new because everyone on the line knows

this. When you have a financial problem, it affects you on a very individual level. And it affects

your work productivity, and it affects your personal relationships. And why is that? Because in our

current society right now, you're viewed a little bit as not up to stuff if you have financial

problems. And people internalize that because we all know that money is emotional. So if you have

financial problems, you start thinking that some of it is because there's something wrong with me.

And so you tend to worry more about it. You know, a recent study by the Personal Financial

Employees Education Foundation showed that one in four employees are in serious financial

stress. And we all know that some of this has to do with the economy. We all know that some of

this has to do with the fact that people's wages haven't risen, but their credit has and so people

have gotten themselves into financial trouble. So one thing to think about this as we go through it--

I'm going to talk a lot about this is that how to make sure you separate a person from their

financial issues. And on the average, this like blew me away when I saw the statistic. But on an

average, up to 80 percent of these individuals spend time at work dealing with their personal

financial problems. And in terms of wasted productivity, that's between 12 to 20 hours per month.

And the reason to bring these statistics and the next set of statistics that I'm going to bring in is

because this is everybody's issue. This isn't just the person who's struggling to figure out how to

put everything together. It's the employer's issue and you will see there's been an increase of

employers that provide financial education and brown bags around financial literacy in the

workplace directly related to that issue. And I apologize it just switched the slide, I'm on slide 15.

You know, and then in 2010, the Federal Reserve study stated that employees' financial stress

costs an employer an average--employers, excuse me, an average of 5000 dollars per employee

per year in productivity. That's a huge chunk of change. When we go back to--one in four people

are dealing with some kind of financial stress. And then let's, you know, extrapolate a little bit,

think about the folks that you care about and you represent and you're trying to secure

employment for, just in your head, think about how many of those people are dealing with

financial stress, OK. And those with earnings under 30,000 dollars, which is kind of a lot of folks

that we place, scored high on the fiscal related stress index. It was 64 points, which means not only

is stress high, but if you look at other studies, it also shows there's a strong correlation between

that stress and depression. So it's an issue that we need to think about. And we know that financial

stress impacts job productivity in a ton of ways. We know that there's increased unplanned

absences. We also know that people feel out of control. Just think about yourself. If you've ever had

a situation where you weren't quite sure how you're going to pay a bill and you had one of those

fun-filled collection agencies call you, you feel out of control. And when you feel out of control, it's

hard to focus. So employees are easily distracted. And it's kind of like that one ad about get digital

TV when you're easily distracted, you're prone to accidents. But it's true. When you're easily

distracted, you're not paying attention. And then if we take it to a lot of folks are working jobs, that

it's incredibly important they pay attention, because they may be around machinery and it may be

a situation where it's easier for them to seriously hurt themselves. And we already talked about

this, but stress creates a high risk of health-related problems. So then we--so, OK. So, we have

unplanned absences. We have people not being productive. We have them prone to accidents. And

then we put them on a high risk of turnover, either they lose the job or they quit the job. And then

where are they? Lots of times, they're right back in your office. And we have all worked with

people who have had multiple jobs within one year. And part of the reasons they've had multiple

jobs is the underlying issue sometimes have not been addressed. So you go from one stopgap to

another stopgap. And it never resolves the issues. And so people lose jobs due to low productivity.

So now, here's really good at stating the obvious, but the benefits of financial capacity which I

don't have to tell you, you all know is going to decrease financial stress. It's going to help

somebody feel in control. And when you feel in control, you're able to see that you have a future.

When you feel out of control, survival is the only thing you usually you can see. There's going to be

less financial crisis. But if all worked with people who are so on the edge when their car breaks

down, that's it, they quit their job. I have no way to get there. We've worked with people who are

on the edge of losing their housing. We've worked with a lot of people that have no emergency

savings whatsoever, and life is always a scramble. So the greater motivation to push through the

challenges at a new job presents--'cause we all know a new job is stressful. When you're in a little

bit more financially secure situation, you know, with better budgeting, it helps people face the

drop in Social Security or other public benefits, or it helps people think about how to use public

benefits and Social Security as a way to augment their income. So maybe I'm somebody who really

in order to meet all my expenses, I need to make more money than actually at this point I truly

can. So then, what's the conversation about how do we use your Social Security or how do we use

your other public benefits to kind of augment the amount of money you have, so that you get

through, you're OK? And, you know, I think about these conversations. And I think about this old

blues song that used to--that says, you know, "Everybody wants to go to heaven, but nobody wants

to die." And I think about that on money. We all want the people we represent to be financially

stable, to have financial capacities, but none of us want to talk about money. So we need to kind of

think about how we switch that equation a little bit. And research demonstrates that employees

who are able to manage their finances are more productive. Well, that's the given. If you think

about your own life, you know that's true. And one company found that profits increased by 450

dollars annually for each employee that improved his or her financial behaviors. So let's just think

about that for a second. You know, because most of the time in this webinar I'm going to talk about

how you can help and how we can think about supporting the job seekers, the people we

represent. But we can also help companies. We can also help employers think about this fact, and

think about what they can provide to their employees. Because in the end, they're going to be

financially better off by doing that. So it's just kind of helping us thinking of the whole equation

from 360 degrees because in reality, it's everybody's issue. So how do we get there? How do we

help those we serve first of all? Move forward from high financial stress, financial crisis, or limited

financial security to being financially and physically capable without magic, OK. One way that we

do it is we start talking about money. And talking about money is complicated. And it can make us

uncomfortable because it is emotional. And for most of us, we grew up with a whole ton of

judgments around money. I'm sure some of you like me heard from your mother, "Money doesn't

grow on trees. Why are you buying that?" But think of all the different money messages you got all

through your life. And most of them tend to be somewhat simplistic. And they tend to lead you to

being judgmental. So I just want to show this if I can play this quick video, that one, because I think

it's humorous and two, because it makes my point. Elizabeth, can you help me? For some reason,

it's not working.

[ Pause ]

OK. Well, I can't get it to work. So I would suggest you guys watch it when you can. It's another

assumption that we hold around money and it's that work will be the answer, that if a person gets

a job, then they'll be OK. And we've kind of forgotten in today's society how complex everything

has become. And if you look at the huge movement that's going on now about minimum wage and

about people demanding higher wages 'cause they can't live on minimum wage, that we know that

the assumption that just getting a job will take care of everything just truly is not true. You know,

and there is some thinking that we've gone through in our head that, you know, everyone starts

somewhere. And I know that other people on the line have said that to customers they

represented as I have. And that's fine. Everybody does start somewhere, but everybody also needs

some help figuring out to get to the next [inaudible]. Another thing that we tend to think is well,

you know, the job market is tight right now so take what you can get and then you can move

forward. Or people can augment wages with public benefits, which is true, people can. But then we

want to think about how long do we want to set up that and how do we want to help people move

forward? And a person--you know, shoot. The person--and I--a lot--most of the work I do is with

folks with a significant disability and most of the people I work with have limited understanding of

money. That does not mean they don't know what they want. That does not mean because you

have limited understanding of money, that you shouldn't have a financial life. We've also tended to

forget that wages do matter. We get so focused on a job that we think that that's the end all. Life--

you'll live happily ever after if you have that job. But in reality, wages do matter. There isn't a

person on this line when they accepted their job, they didn't think about, can I afford to take this

job? Will this job cover my rent? Will it cover my car payment? Does it have health insurance? Can

I save any money? These are just basic things that you thought about when you accepted your job.

And depending on where you are in your career, and how many people depend on your income,

the questions became broader. And if you decided you wanted a job that didn't pay as much, then

you also had to think about, OK, well, what am I willing to cut out for? You know, what am I willing

to change in my income so I can afford to take this job? It's kind of like we need to help job seekers

think about the same things, think about how much they need to earn to cover their expenses now

and in the future. That doesn't mean hopefully that we're there in the future. It more means that

we help them think about it so that they have a plan. And if we go back to the fact that the--and the

reality, one thing I love about talking about money and helping people think through it is it gives

them power. It gives them control. And so it doesn't mean I'm going to be there in your future

when you get that job that allows you to live the lifestyle you want. But it does mean I can help you

go on a pathway. I can put you on a pathway to financial stability. And you have a plan for the

future. So I'm on slide 22 too. I'm sorry, I keep forgetting to say what slide I'm on. So from my

perspective, our current system looks like this. Probably with a few more loop-dee-loops in it. But

there's limited conversations on financial stability and there isn't a person on this line that doesn't

know that financial stability is personal. It all depends on where you are in your life. You know,

there are some people on this phone that want to buy a new car. So, they are figuring that out and

that factors in to financial stability. There's other people that are figuring out how the heck am I

going to put my kids through school? And so that factors in. There may be some people on this line

that are thinking how the heck am I going to afford a new wheelchair? And that all factors into

what you personally view as financial stability. And we don't ask people that. We tend not to have

those conversations. We tend to focus a lot more on the job development. What kind of job do you

want? Let's see what's available and let's see how we can get you that job. So obtaining the job is

what's essential. That becomes the driver. So, if we're lucky, employment is secured. And if we're

lucky and the person's lucky, sometimes it's a living wage. Sometimes it's a great job. But if the

person has more complexities and less contributions for an employer, it frequently isn't and the

case is closed. For a lot of folks, they're still poor or they're working poor. And the job doesn't

cover their expenses. So what happens? Lots of times individuals return for another job or they're

laid off or they're fired because we kind of focus too linearly on just the job. So when do we talk

about money? When do we help people understand what are the elements they should be thinking

about. And I think that we try to think about how we integrate it into everything we do. And we do

tend to be uncomfortable about talking about money. We're afraid we're being intrusive, we're

afraid that somebody is going to think we're a financial advisor. We think well, you know, we're

not that hot with our own money so what right do we have to talk to anybody else about money?

And it's just that we just have to start the conversations to help people start thinking about it for

themselves and letting them know where the resources are, and what strengths they already have

that they can build on. You know, our approach with around money pretty much has been a little

like teaching somebody how to diet before you teach them how to cook. I mean, we're all really

good at saying, you should budget and not have the conversation about, well, what do you need

from employment? What do you need for money? What--Where do you want to be a year out from

now? So traditionally, we find when it comes to money, it's easy to be judgmental. We're pretty

much pretty comfortable about talking about money--about budgeting. But we're not comfortable

and we don't tend to talk about how a budget can make life easier. If you just came to me and

talked about, "OK, Abby, I want to sit down and do some budgeting with you." I would kind of

think, I want to go stick a needle in my eye. But if you were to sit down with me and you were

counseling me about a job and you said, tell me, Abby, what do you want to buy with your wages?

Tell me what you want your life to look like financially. And let's think about how we can do that

within a budget. I'm a lot more interested. You know, we tend to be reticent about what

information and services the clients need. And one of the reasons is we just don't ask people, "How

can I help you? What do I need?" And for anyone who's ever been in a financial crisis, if somebody

asks you in a nonjudgmental way, "How can I help you?" You're like, "Thank God. Somebody is

listening to me. Somebody is going to help m, because I am so confused. I don't know where to

turn." And just that very question of how can I help you, what do you want to work on? And here

are some resources, can be very empowering to folks. The other thing we tend to do with money

and I think it's 'cause we feel uncomfortable, we tend to neglect to make sure people understand

what we're saying. And if I say it really quickly, then the conversation is over, as opposed to

slowing down and saying, what did--what did she here? You know, what did I say that didn't make

sense to you? And a lot of this, a lot of our uncomfortableness comes from not feeling secure in our

own financial situation or not wanting--you know, not wanting to cause harm, not wanting to give

wrong information, and so it prevents us from having--starting the conversations. And I want to

reiterate here. It's not that anybody on the line has to be a financial advisor. It's just if you have to

open the door to have the conversations and connect people to the resources that can help them.

You know, it struck me all of a sudden as incredibly weird 'cause I'm a little slow. So I think it just

struck me about 10 years ago that how in the world could I, for the last 25 years, be involved in

employment? It never had a lot of discussions about money. They should go, you know, handing

glove. But it was--but they didn't until I started thinking about it. So here's what we want, all right,

Liz, here's what I want. And that we have conversations about wages, hours worked, how many

hours do you want to work? And what does working--what that does wage mean to your life? I

mean, what are the pros and cons? What are you willing to give up in order to achieve those wages

and those hours? What impact does it have on your benefits? Oh you don't know? Well, let's figure

out who you can talk to, who can help you think that through. What about taxes? Well, I've never

ever paid taxes. Well, let's have a little bit of a conversation on what comes out of your check for

taxes and how taxes work, and how you can use taxes as a tool. What are the financial resources in

your community? We also want to have conversations in terms of credit scores, and in terms of

have you ever checked your credit report? Why in the world would I care about my credit score if

I'm just looking for a job? 'Cause a lot of employers in my state is allegedly illegal to check

somebody's credit score unless it's directly related to the job they're applying, but employers do it

all the time. So, all right, I'm somebody who hasn't been employed for two years and then I have a

stinky credit score. My chances of getting that job just plummeted a little bit. So it's important that

people understand that. And it's important that we think about when we do plans, how do we tie it

to people's financial goals? What are their financial goals in relation to their employment goals?

And that doesn't mean they're going to achieve them right away, but it means, you know, what are

the steps we want to put in place? What are the referral to community support? And 'cause this is

my little diagram, life is perfect in this, so we're going to have--the person has an employment goal

that will result in a living wage. And I want to talk for a second on a living wage. A living wage once

again is individual. A living wage is contingent on what that person's expenses are. So if that

person thinks about that you're doing a plan with and you're thinking about what they think about

what they need to cover their wages--to cover their expenses, what that wage is becomes what the

living wage. And maybe enough to cover their expenses and go out to dinner once a month. You

know, in Ireland, the way they define poverty is very interesting. They define it in terms of, is the

person able to participate in regular community activities? Are they able to have people over to

dinner once a month? Are they able to go out and participate in an activity in the community? Do

they have enough pairs of shoes? They get very clear in terms of what a person needs to be

integrated in the community and have enough money. So we have a plan. And the plan obtains a

job that reflects both the person's contributions, their skills, their strengths, their experience, and

their financial needs. And as I already said earlier, financial needs change. So they reflect their

financial needs at that particular point in their life. And in my head, they're on a pathway to

financial stability 'cause we've had some of those conversations with them or we've referred them

to community resources. And so we hopefully don't see them again. And then they have a closed

case and they live happily ever after. So I want to talk a second about tension systems. And I'm on

slide 26. And the reason I put this girl in is one, because I just love her running away from the bear,

but it's also how many people feel about their finances. They think they've got one thing, they

think they've got it under control. And all of a sudden something new happens and they're just

running for survival. But what Kurt Lewin's tension systems theory is, is that environments, all

environments are complex and layered. And there are behaviors that pull us away and towards

certain behaviors. So, if anybody on the phone has had a fun-filled experience of trying to lose

weight, do you know that there's little tricks you do, you know, that you use a smaller plate. And if

you use a smaller plate, you tend to eat less or for anyone who's had the fun-filled experience of

quitting smoking, you know, one behavior you do that helps you quit smoking if you stay away

from people that are smoking so you can't [inaudible] their cigarettes. So there's all kinds of

behaviors that either pull you towards something or pull you away. And the way I see these

tension systems connecting is I think there's small changes that we can make and that

conversations we have and the services we provide that can help people obtain the desired

behavior they want. So, you know, everybody on this phone, even if you think none of this is your

job, you can make a huge difference in many people's lives, just by simply adding a conversation

about money to your employment planning. And if somebody doesn't want to have that

conversation, that's totally fine. But probably the people that need it the most will want that

conversation. And it will lead to less financial stress for the individual, OK? It'll improve the

likelihood that the job seeker is securing employment at a wage that will meet their monthly

needs. And for some people that are seeking employment now, that is an incredible gift. Also,

identifying and securing connections to add to financial services to let people know they're not

alone, but here, all these resources in the community and there are an awful lot of resources in

every community, is an amazing gift. And increasing the individual's understanding of their own

needs in a way to meet those needs 'cause I firmly believe whether you're talking about

employment, or whether you're talking about employment and finances. You always want to build

on the individual's strengths. And one way you build on people's individual strengths is them

knowing what their needs are. And then thinking about how they're going to meet those needs.

This isn't something that you do for somebody. This is really something you do with somebody.

And the really fun thing about it is you kind of expand people's world and give them hope. So

there's--I think there's just three things that you can do that are super easy that'll make it easier

for your job seekers to maintain employment by decreasing financial stress. And put somebody on

a pathway to financial stability. Make room for the conversations. Keep things as simple as

possible. And really start thinking in your head, this is part of my role. This isn't really going to

take any more time and this really is going to help this person. And if you can do those three

things, I think that is just wonderful. We're on slide 30. So when do you introduce the concept that

employment should place a job seeker on a pathway to financial stability? And as we all know with

anything, timing is everything. And some people are ready to hear things right at intake, other

people aren't going to be ever ready for it and other people are going to be interested in thinking

about this when you're writing the employment plan. If you provide the job seekers with tools to

evaluate what wages will cover their expenses, they have control over that. You give them the tool

and there's lots of online tools and there's lots of tools they can add to their smartphones. And it

seems like everybody in [inaudible] has a smartphone. That will allow the job seeker to kind of

take control. Because we've all worked with people who will tell us they need to earn such and

such a wage, and it's totally arbitrary. I want to earn 25 dollars an hour. I want to earn 50 dollars

an hour. It's not related to their expenses. It's not related to their skills, but it usually is related to

status. And in our society, status is important around money. So people glob on to a high figure

that is impossible to achieve, but having them look at what their expenses are and where they

want to go, then you can help them be a little bit more realistic. Or sometimes people glob on to a

very, very low figure 'cause they're trying to stay under the radar either with their--they may have

an overpayment with Social Security and they never want to have another one, or their wages may

be being garnished or they haven't paid child support so they just don't want anybody to be

bugging them so they don't want to earn that much money. But just having somebody have some

tools to evaluate it will help them decide where they want to go. And throughout the job

development process, it is really important to repeat information frequently 'cause people need to

hear information more than once. There isn't a person on this line that hasn't--when they get

information that is new to them, that they just get it and life is grand. But you got to hear it more

times. I don't know if anybody here has ever been through benefits planning training or work

incentive t raining. You hear it once and you think, "Oh, yeah, I got it." And you walk out and you've

totally forgotten it. Because information that's new to somebody, it takes a while to sink in, so

people frequently need to hear it more than once. And you really need--when somebody's offered

a job, I personally feel that it's our responsibility to really ask just a couple of questions. Can you

live on this wage? If no, they can't, it's like OK, then you really want this job, how are you going to

augment it with public benefits? Do you need to apply for food stamps? Is there any upward

growth in the company? So this would be OK for a little while but then you could have more

money? You know, what is your plan to meet your monthly expenses? And at--when a case is

closed or, you know, what other information do you need? You know, what is your plan if a

financial crisis hits? 'Cause anyone who's ever had a financial crisis knows that if you don't have a

plan before going into it, it's terrifying. And also asking people, how are you managing your

financial stress? Is there a plan? Do--Would it be helpful to take a financial literacy class? OK. I am

on slide 31. So let's talk about money at intake and when writing an employment plan, because in

my head, those are two natural places. And I think that the more that we can connect employment

and being on a pathway to financial stability, the better off and the better service we are providing

our customers. And asking questions on intake form or entering into a discussion about

individual's finances is helpful. You may view it as intrusive and a person can always say, "I don't

want to talk about it." But for many people, it is helpful. It's like, finally there's somebody that can

help me. And I was so ashamed to talk about this. And really, helping people think about

employment is a key factor in financial stability, then we really need to think about how the

employment plan reflects financial stability. You know, and really have some conversations with

people. And that's not to say that I am not well aware of the fact that sometimes people need to

accept any job just because of what's going on in their life. And that's a stop-gap measure. You

know, if you need to take any job so you can pay rent next month, that makes perfect sense to me.

But we don't stop there. That's not an effective plan. We started thinking about, OK, once you've

got rent paid, what are the next steps for you to move forward, to be financially stable? So at

intake, I think there are some questions that can easily be asked. And some questions related to

desired salary, how much do you want to make? How much are you making right now? How much

have you made in the past? What are your total monthly expenses? Would that wage cover it? Do

you want information or support to better understand or manage your money? Is there any

information or resources I can help you with? Do you have a bank account? Well, no, I haven't

because, you know, they charge me late fees. They charge me overdraft fees so much it wasn't

worth it. Well, are you interested in learning about second chance banking? We already talked

about credit scores and credit report. You know, are there credit issues you'd like to fix? No. Not

right now. I just want a job. OK. Well, is that something you might want to look at later? Kind of

thinking about how much do you owe? Is it weighing on you? Are you worried about it? Do you

want any help figuring that out? You know, what are your financial goals? And how can this job

help you move forward? These questions do a couple things. One, they can kind of give you--they

give information in terms of how to help somebody move forward. It also helps somebody start

thinking about what steps do I want to take? And I think it's really helpful to know before

employment planning starts what does financial security look like for the individual? You know,

what does financial independence look like? If I'm somebody who has never ever managed my

money and people have always told me that I can't manage my money 'cause I have a cognitive

disability, then maybe financial independence for me looks like the fact that I get to have my own

bank account. It's going to vary. Maybe the financial independence for somebody else means that

they have enough money to buy a house. It's going to vary depending on that person. But have that

person think about what is financial security and what does financial independence look like to

help them think about how they want to move forward? And we all know this and as you probably

know by this point, I'm great at stating the obvious, but money is a trigger. Their money is a

trigger for everybody on this line. You know, there's some people that will be more than happy if

they're depressed to go--you know, go out shopping and buy something new and that will make

me feel better. Or there's other people who get a lot of money and all of a sudden, they want to

take all their friends out. We all engage in risky and impulsive financial behavior. But hopefully,

most people on the line aren't living on the edge. And if you're somebody that's living on the edge,

it's helpful for you to think about when do you engage in risky and impulsive financial behavior?

Because if you're the type of person that as soon as you get money in your pocket, you're more

than happy to give it to your friends, you're more than happy to buy everybody in the bar a drink,

then pretty soon you have no money. And there's a lot of people who go to work and end up

getting in big financial trouble because no one helps them think about, when do they engage in

risky behavior? And if money--if having money means that they're going to do something that is

more detrimental to themselves, like particularly if you've worked with folks who are recovering

addicts, it's pretty important that they think about the impact of money on their behavior. And

also, connected to the risky, impulsive behavior is kind of what does status mean? How does

money play out status? Because we've all worked with people who have gotten a job and gone out

and bought a new car from one of those shady car dealers that they could not afford at 25 percent

interest, but it was status, it was, "I'm working, I should have a new car." So, just trying to make

people aware of this so when they go to work, they don't get themselves in a bigger hole. And what

financial goals does the person have or do they want to have? And for--to think collectively, how

can those financial goals, or some of them, be addressed in the employment plan? OK, I'm on slide

34. So if we move to employment planning, I think I've kind of beaten a dead horse here, but

money needs to be a part of the conversation. And as we develop the plan, as people think about

work, whether it's individually, whether it's in a group kind of setting, but not only is it what type

of wage needs to be covered on the monthly expenses, but really a person thinking about is it

reasonable that I can earn that wage? Do I need to return to school? Do I--you know, what would

that mean for me to have that wage? And to create a plan around that. You know, really have

somebody think about what wage would cover their monthly expenses? And have money left over

to meet their financial goals. Whatever it is, whether it's to save, whether it's to pay down debt,

whether it's to be able to take your girlfriend out to dinner, whether it's that, you know, as soon as

you get a paycheck, you want to buy a particular TV, whatever it is, what they are, the person

needs to think about that. And also what will your first paycheck pay for? And is that reasonable to

assume that you'd have enough money to pay all that? You know, is there anything the job seeker

wants to save for? And what I really like to do when I'm working with somebody that wants to

save for something, I really like them perhaps 'cause I'm really visual, I like them to get a picture of

it and to cut it out and put it on their refrigerator so they know, "Hey, this is what I'm saving for,"

'cause it's tough to save. And for them to think about how much money is needed for financial

stability, what is financial stability for them? And what's the job seeker willing to do to achieve

that? You know, I work with a woman once where when I started working with her, she was not

working. And she wanted--she enrolled in an IDA program and at savings account program where

the match was one to eight. And she wanted to save for a car but all she had was her SSI income.

So, she went and she cut off her cable because she could save the money that she paid in cable.

And in her thinking, I will be financially stable if I have a car so that I can obtain employment

because where she lived was fairly rural. And she ended up purchasing a car, and she ended up

going--actually getting a job that paid fairly well. So, it's like what's a person willing to do to

achieve that? Kind of when was the last time the job seeker checked his credit report? I really like

to recommend people check their credit report prior to applying for jobs just so they can correct

misinformation on it. And are there any financial issues that will impact the job seeker working?

We talked a little bit about this earlier, whether it's overpayment, delinquent child support,

garnishment, but those are things that they may want to think about in how they want to address

them. On all of this, I would suggest for what its worth to ask the person to write down, you know,

their biggest financial issues they want to address, to ask the person to think about how the

employment plan can help address one or more of those issues. And have the person create a

personal action plan for what they're willing to do today, 30 days, two months, three months from

now. And have the person mail it to them because I think it is essential that it's the person's plan

and not our plan. So, if by mailing it to themselves, that helps. I'm going to stop for a second 'cause

I just saw a question.

[ Pause ]

OK, in my area, it's almost impossible to get a checking account if you have poor credit. Is there a

way around the situation with second chance banking? Yes, there is. And if you can type in your

area, then we can get back to you on who has second chance banking in your area. So, we're going

to talk about money throughout the job development process. And one thing that I think that we

forget to talk about a lot is employer benefits. And it's weird to me 'cause we forget to talk about it.

And I think this goes back to, you know, our thinking of, you know, our role is to get you a job, and

life is good. But for most people on this phone, we all think about employer benefits when we

accept a job. We may accept a job for less pay because it has better benefits. But lots of times, we

forget to talk to some of our consumers about employer benefits. And so, does the job have a

pension plan? If it does, how much does the company contribute? Is there life insurance? Does the

employer contribute? Does it come directly out of your paycheck? 'Cause it kind of--knowing what

comes directly out of your paycheck is very helpful when, you know, kind of reminds me of when

my--one of my children got their first job, they called me up at their first paycheck and said, "I'm

quitting. Don't they know I'm a teenager? They took taxes out of my check. You work on this, mom,

you call them up and tell them they can't take taxes out of my check." They had no idea. And

sometimes, that's true with some of the employer benefits. The employee, the person we

represent doesn't realize that. So, we need to have conversations. We need to find out are

paychecks direct deposit, particularly if you're working with somebody who lives in an area that is

dangerous. But direct deposit is good for everybody even if they're in a totally safe neighborhood.

You know, is there a provision for direct deposit into savings? Because everybody knows that if

they save--if they have direct deposit into savings, it's a heck of a lot easier to save than it is when

you actually have to put it into the savings account. Does it have disability coverage? Does the

company offer short-term or long-term disability coverage? Most of these benefits you can find on

employer's websites. Or in an interview, you can ask an employer because people do all the time,

what are you--you know, what are your employer benefits? If there's an education benefit, is that

available just to the person? Or is it also available to the family members? Because all of these

benefits can augment a wage and you may choose to take a job that's less pay--that pays less

because it's better benefits. And does the employer pay for health insurance coverage? If not, how

much will it be--you know, how much would it be on a monthly basis? Is the premium deducted

from the individual's paycheck? How much is deducted? Can a summary of a health insurance plan

options be reviewed before hiring? These are really important questions for somebody accepting a

job to be thinking about. There isn't anybody on the line that would not think about this for

themselves. I'd--you know, I've never gone into a job interview where I haven't asked, when does

your health insurance coverage start. Now, how much sick time, vacation time, holidays are

provided? Can sick time be used when my kid is sick? Because if it can't and I have three kids, I'm

going to kind of think the way the pros and cons of this job. You know, when do benefits start to

accrue? I think it's really important we help people think through employer benefits. You know,

what other fringe benefits are offered? Are there stock options? Particularly when you work--if

you're working with people who are also on Social Security, whether it be SSI or SSDI, making sure

that they understand, you know, mutual funds, stock options, the impacts that can have on their

benefits. Well, if they don't even know those are offered, it's pretty hard for them to know the

impact it can have on their benefits. You know, are there bonuses? Are there raises? You know, a

raise of six months, do I get a raise when I'm done with probation and then every year,

henceforth? You know, is there in-house training? Is there wellness? Is there shared

compensation? Childcare assistance? Policy to promote from within? Not every employer is going

to have all of these benefits. But if you're aware of what benefits you need and, you know, if you

don't have any kids, you don't care about childcare. If you're pretty healthy, you probably don't

care about shared compensation. But you may really care, do they promote from within? So, just

making people aware of what the different employer benefits are so they can start thinking about

what they need. And remember, this all goes back to how do I help you take control? And the more

information a person has, the better control they can take. Another really--particularly in today's

world, another important thing for people to think about is how does the employer pay? Do they--

you know, are there payroll cards accounts that are established by the employer to transfer the

employer's compensation? Well if they are, does the payroll--can some of the new payroll accounts

also have savings account connected to it. So, if I'm somebody who decide I need to start saving

and they pay by payroll account, I'm going to kind of want to know for the payroll account that

also has savings connected to it. The thing that an employee needs to know or a job seeker needs

to know, if there's a payroll card account, the employee is allowed to choose the institution that

will receive the direct deposit. The employer cannot require the employee to receive their wages

to a payroll account at certain institutions. The employee gets to choose. And the employer can

offer choices of payroll cards. They can offer direct deposits into the account of the employee

choosing or--I'm sorry, or checks. So, this is a new occurrence. You know, I think it's been like in

the last five years that payroll cards have become really popular and some people don't know

about it. So, making sure they're aware of that. And I think that another issue that we kind of

missed talking to people about which is kind of weird, but we do or I have anyhow, is payroll

taxes. You know, a person needs to know about payroll taxes. They need to know there's a

difference for some people they need to know there's a difference between your gross income

before taxes and your net income. And the amount of money a person gets after taxes. And they

need to know, it depends on the deductions that they take in their W-4. So, if I need a lot of money

right now, then I'm going to probably take less deductions so I get more money and maybe later

on I'm going to change the deductions on my W-4. Or maybe I'm somebody that wants to get a ton

of money back at tax time so then I can put a chunk of change into savings. Then, I'm going to do

more deductions, but just helping somebody think that through. To understand that there's

employee, their employer benefits deductions that come out of your check, there's Social Security

taxes which is basically 6.2 percent, and there's a Medicare deduction at 1.45 percent. You know,

and there can be other deductions that are going to impact your take-home pay, which is

insurance premiums, retirement payments, flexible health accounts, et cetera. So, having

somebody kind of understand that for people who have not paid attention to it is useful. So, let's

talk about money at closure. And I'm on slide 45. Basically, everything that I said thus far is--kind

of means that we're going to have to think about who in the community we can partner with, they

can offer the information we need. So, that you can make sure that your job seeker gets the

information they need, you know, whether it's on credit repair, dealing with debt, budgeting, work

incentives, you know, one big one is reporting Social Security earned income, so people don't get

into overpayments. Who has financial education classes? Who has banking products such as

second chance banking? Who has low interest loans or credit building loans? So, I have really

stinky credit. Well, maybe what I need is a low interest loan that builds my credit. But--so, maybe I

need to go see somebody around credit repair who can help me think that through. So, being

aware of what's available in your community is really useful. I think it's also really important to

keep stuff simple, keep the focus on what the job seeker identifies as their financial goals and what

he or she wants to know. For anyone on the line, that's a benefits planner or for anyone on the line

who's ever sent somebody to a CWIC or a benefits planner, you know or at least I knew as a

benefits planner, I gave people way too much information and their heads were spinning, and it

wasn't really the information they wanted. And it wasn't until I ask that very simple question,

what do you need to know today? And could address that, that then all of a sudden, people started

following what I was suggesting. So also, if we can make it easy for people to be successful. So, if

we help them think about shorter goals, and always, always with anything, I mean, everybody

knows this, we're going to start with the job seeker's strengths and build on those strengths,

because every person we see has strengths in this area that sometimes you have to dig a little

deeper, but those strengths are there and we need to build on them. And we want to make

information easy, accessible, and understandable. That's why we want to test something to say,

somebody doesn't make--does something doesn't make sense to them, then we want to figure out

how we can re-say it again so that it's clearer to people. Most of us only understand what we need

to know to get by. I mean, if the financial crisis in 2008 taught us anything, it taught us that. And

people might not understand the financial system, but they do understand what they want. And so,

if we structure a conversation about what a person wants for the future, they don't necessarily

have to understand all the ins and outs of money. But it still needs to be part of their conversation

'cause we need to make sure that jobs are helping people get, fit with what that person wants and

needs, or at least they're on a pathway to that. You know, I think that one thing we're getting

smarter at is using technology. And I personally think we should use technology whenever

possible. When we can label things with a picture with a smartphone to make it easier for

somebody, can we do alerts, can we help somebody set up alerts on their smartphones, reminders,

notifications of low balances. There are tons of free financial apps that are like for budgeting, for

credit tracking, money tips, can we help people download those to their smartphones? Can we text

tips to people? Can we make sure that our [inaudible] try to put on our website useful--you know,

useful websites for job seekers? So to really start using technology to its fullest advantage. OK so,

we--I think I've hammered it home enough and a job alone is not enough. We want people to be

financially stable. So, we want to assist job seekers in thinking about a career that both meets their

unique abilities and put them on a pathway to financial stability. We want to ask job seekers to

think about what financial stability means for them and how much money they need now and in

the future. And what they're willing to do to achieve that. And of course, we want to provide

information on how to use public benefits as a tool and help people think through what are the

essential public benefits they need as opposed to having people think, don't touch my benefits or

life will fall apart. And we want to provide resource information on financial literacy and

community resources. If we remember that improving your customer's financial capability will

decrease their financial stress and a major cause of on-the-job issues, then they're probably going

to stay employed. The integrated financial stability--integrating financial stability into disability

and employment services is really critical if we want people to be financially stable. If we have

folks who have more complexities in their life, it is critical that we help them start thinking about,

how do we integrate financial stability? And, you know, there are portion of job seekers, many of

whom a lot of you on the phone represent who will never be financially stable without these

conversations and without the community supports. And they will kind of be through a revolving

door where you get to see them more than you ever wanted to. So, I'm going to try to wrap this up

quickly so we have time for questions. But I want to give you an on-the-ground example of

Terrence and he came in to your organization for employment services. You know, he needed a

job, just any job. "I need a job tomorrow." And through the intake employment process, all of a

sudden you learn there're some financial issues and some support he desires. So, his case

manager, job counselor refers him to a free financial education class to be completed when he is

seeking employment. So, he gets that under his belt. Prior to accepting a position, his job counselor

helped him create a financial plan that identifies how much he needs to earn, what employer

benefits he needs, what he can change in his budget if he accepts a job for less money, how to use

these public benefits to augment his wages? Where to obtain free tax filing services? Which tax

credits he might be able to be eligible for? And opportunities to use this tax credit, his tax returns

to meet one of his goals? So, the outcome for this is other than the fact that he lives happily ever

after, he understands his financial needs, which is critical. He identifies financial goals. That is

really powerful. He has a financial plan. So, thinks he knows what to do. He's not going to get

sideswiped by those financial crises. He improves his money management skills and feels more in

control of his money. He has a job that covers his expenses and he knows the supports in the

community and where to turn for the supports. And best of all, he believes he can improve his

financial situation. So that's where we want to get. And in slide 53, you know, it starts with belief is

critical, and it is. Nobody, nobody in the world gets to be part of the financial mainstream without

somebody believing they can do it. Everybody on the phone that was true for. And all--really, this

whole presentation is about is we want to give that gift back to the people we represent. You

know, you might be the first person in a long time that believes a job seeker can be financially

better off. And that encouragement is so incredibly powerful. It also creates relationships that

allow for tough conversations. It allows for, OK, well, you know, it doesn't quite make sense to me.

Can we think that through again? So, the belief that a person can and should be better off is just

super powerful. Slide 54. And so, your homework assignment, should you choose to accept them?

No, it's like what you can do tomorrow. You and your head tomorrow can redefine successful

employment. You can consider enhanced employment services that support a job seeker to earn

wages that meet their monthly expenses, report earned income to Social Security, and with

supports if necessary. File taxes, I cannot tell you how many people didn't believe that while filing

taxes doesn't apply to them because they didn't make that much money. And they're just throwing

that money away. You know, apply for earned income tax credit and with supports if they need it.

Have a bank account. Connect to the supports in the community that assist with budgeting and

financial education. If we redefine--if in your head you start thinking, "Hey, at least one of these

things, I'm going to incorporate with the folks I work with," that would be wonderful. What you

can do in the next month is there's all kinds of really easy, good online financial education classes,

which are listed here. So, you can introduce just a few financial questions into your job counseling.

You can learn the community resources. You can create a hand sheet--a handout sheet that kind of

helps people understand employer benefits. And you can become familiar with a Social Security

work incentive fun-filled red book which actually is very good. So, these are all relatively easy

things that you could do in the next month to start thinking about this. And your leadership, your

leadership can do some stuff if they so choose. And they could be willing to try different and

untested strategies. You know, they could create a workgroup willing to explore what would be

possible in the next year. You could arrange training for all staff on financial strategies and why

this is important. You could pilot how to incorporate financial health into employment planning.

You should think about creating savings incentives when somebody goes to work. Work with

businesses to develop a joint strategy 'cause remember, this is everybody's issue. You could

incorporate financial expectations and desires as part of discovery and customized employment.

And I just want to go over real quickly some other resources to consider. There's a great free

financial health assessment to assess a client's financial needs and the website is there. There is a

link to living wage calculator. You could put that on your website. You know, so many people go to

work and then they don't understand why they're so poor. And the fact is because these other

issues haven't been dealt with. Yeah, you could get a list of resources of the banks that offer

second chance banking accounts who provides match savings accounts or Individual Development

Accounts in your area. And also which we don't have and I'm hoping Elizabeth can help me. There

are also two webinars that I was hoping that we would--oh, thank you, Elizabeth with the--oh no.

NDI is having a webinar, I believe it's on April 9th which is building capacity--

>> Elizabeth: Yeah. If you could give me the ball or--

>> Abby: Yeah. OK, great.

>> Elizabeth: --keep going through, they will be in a few more slides.

>> Abby: Oh, OK, it's yours.

>> Elizabeth: Sorry about that, everyone.

>> Abby: That's OK. OK, so, yeah. Do you want to talk about them, Elizabeth? And I will turn it

back to you.

>>Elizabeth: Sure. Thanks, Abby.

>> Abby: Yeah.

>> Elizabeth: First of all, Abby, thank you so much for your presentation. I learned a lot. I think

you did a great job breaking this down for all of us on the line. So, for those of you who might want

to learn more, there's two upcoming opportunities to do that. One, is through National Disability

Institute on April 9th. We're going to provide a webinar on Measuring the Financial Capability of

Persons with Disabilities. We're going to do this with our partner, Bank of America and a panel of

speakers who are going to define for you financial capability as it relates to individuals with

disabilities and look at the fact that while there are currently some standards for measuring

financial capability, they don't take into account some of the additional indicators that would be

relevant when you're looking at somebody who has disability. So, we hope you'll join us. You can

access it through the link. Nakia, if you wouldn't mind putting the link in the chat box or you can

also visit our website, www.realeconomicimpact.org. There's also going to be a webinar hosted by

Workforce3One for the Disability Employment Initiative which is a product of National Disability

Institute and our sister agency, NDI Consulting. So, this webinar is on April 8th and it's going to

look at the Role "Credit" plays in the Employment with People with Disabilities. As Abby alluded

to, there are significant efforts going on around the country and even in Congress to look at this

issue of credit being an indicator of whether or not you are job worthy and that's starting to

become a real barrier to individuals who are interested in employment. So if you have a chance to

join, you can register through Workforce3One. Don't be intimidated by Workforce3One. You do

have to register to be a user, but it's free and it's a great resource and it's what the federal

workforce system uses to put out information in webinars. And then I also want to make sure

you're thoughtful about our next upcoming webinar from LEAD Center. April 23rd, we're going to

switch to our employment series which is going to run for three months. The first one will be on

Section 503, Connecting Job seekers with Disabilities and Federal Contractors through the

Workforce Development System. So, many of you may know there's a new Section 503 rule that's

become final and is in effect and it looks at making sure that individuals with disabilities are part

of federal contractors workforce. So, this will be a great opportunity for you to look at how you can

be part of that process of connecting job seekers with disabilities to those federal contractors. So,

we hope you'll join us, a lot is going on in April. But let's come back to some questions for Abby.

I'm hoping everyone can hear me OK. Abby provided a lot of information and we hope that you'll

take a minute now to plug in to the question and answer box or into the chat box any of the

questions that you have. One that came up is for you, Abby, and asks are there--in addition to the

links you provided, are there any other kind of favorite websites or links that you go to for

financial capability strategies and tools?

>> Abby: Yeah. There's a lot of links. And maybe what we should do is create a list of links and

then put them on your website. You know, one link that I really like is not so much on strategies as

it is just tells you the state of the state of your state, which if there's good information on CFED's

website. So, would that work, if I sent you Elizabeth, a variety of websites and you could also

augment it and then we could send it out to folks or post it?

>> Elizabeth: Absolutely. We could do that. So, also any of you out there on the line, if you have a

favorite website that you use for some of these issues, I want to encourage you to send it to us. You

can plug it into the chat box or send it directly to me, Elizabeth Jennings, ejennings@ndi-inc.org.

We'll compile those and we'll post them with the archive so that folks can look at them. And we'll

do our best to vet all of them to make sure that they're accessible to you--

>> Abby: Yeah, just so and a little wary to just--

>> Elizabeth: No problem. We can take care of that--

>> Abby: Yeah.

>> Elizabeth: --through the LEAD Center. You know, another opportunity for all of you on the line

today is if you have some of the tools that Abby mentioned creating, something on how to talk to

people about the different things that are going to be deducted from their paycheck or some links

that you like to use to help people have some basic understanding of their money as they return to

work, we'd be happy to also share those out to the folks on this webinar. So, please feel free to

share any resources such as that. We'll always be happy to make sure they are posted with the

relevant training and be a resource to all of your colleagues across the country. So, another

question we have is, I'm not sure how to get my leadership engaged in these activities. Do you

have any suggestions for a first step?

>> Abby: I have lots of suggestions. I don't know if they are effective but, you know, one

suggestion that I would suggest is just presenting to your leadership. I don't know what state

you're from, but I would go to the CFED site and look at information about your state and poverty

level in your state. And then look and just present in terms of the impact of who you're serving,

and the impact it's having and then have a discussion. And, you know, my email is up here. And if

you want to go that route and you want to send me your ideas, I'm happy to send you back some

suggestions and kind of work a little bit with you on it.

>> Elizabeth: Great. Thank you. OK, it looks like that's all of the questions that we've had. The only

other question we've been asked is questions about the archive and whether or not you can print

this information out after. And yes, the archive will be posted. It will be posted with the transcript

and also with the slides. So, you'll have everything there that you need. If you're somebody who

thinks that others in your organization would benefit, you know, this archive would be a great

resource for them. Abby really drives home the point and gives a great world view of why this is so

critically important. And some of the research that shows that incorporating this into your work

can lead to better outcomes, particularly in regards to employment retention.

>> Abby: And Nina, who needed information on second chance banking, if you email me your

email, then I will send you that information.

>> Elizabeth: Great. Thank you, Abby.

>> Abby: Sure.

>> Elizabeth: So on that note, I'd like to say thank you again to Abby. We really appreciate your

time and your expertise today.

>> Abby: Oh, sure. Well, thank you. Thank you everybody for listening.

>> Elizabeth: Thanks everyone for joining us. We hope you'll join us again next month. And we

hope you'll take the opportunity to always email us in with any questions you have, any tools you

use that you'd like us to share and any thoughts you have about future trainings that you'd like us

to create for you. We so appreciate your attendance and we look forward to seeing you again next

month. Thanks, everyone. Have a great day.

>> Abby: Thank you. Bye-bye.