Here find many users' tips about setting up or repairing Atlas metallathes.

The repair and fitting of Atlas metal lathes is the primary subject ofthis file, but many practices discussed here might be useful for otherbrands also.

The file here called "Atlas Parts General" has contact information forClausing (Atlas bought Clausing and adopted their more prestigious name).Lots of parts, original or newly made, at better prices than anywhereelse.

Clausing personnel know a great deal about their old Atlas products andhave the majority of spare parts still in stock. Some are original andsome are more recently manufactured. And if not in stock (which is morelikely in the case of some accessory products like collet closers), theycan probably provide a copy of the specifications so you could make one.And in most cases, parts from Clausing are much cheaper than availableelsewhere. It makes sense to support this company that so cares for itsclients and ancient products -- it is a very rare company indeed.

Also, there are discussions in the text file "Atlas Parts General" asto how some parts may be repaired or even made from scratch.

There are some repair discussions about the nuts involved for threading,half-nuts or split-nuts (hyphen optional), in the text file on this sitecalled "Thread Dial and Half Nuts".

I hope that Atlas owners will learn to read as well as think outside thebox. The perfect solution to your Atlas lathe's problem might be completelysolved in another group devoted to Taig or Sherline or Myford or Loganor South Bend or 7 X 10...12...whatever Minilathes or ......., and v.v.

For example, a very useful message on the Subject: Lathe AlignmentTechnique appeared in the mlathemodsx~xxyahoogroups.com on 31 Jan 2004.Great advice as to how to make your headstock and tailstock align. Thatmessage appears in this file now because it is applicable to any lathebrand.

There are a (very) few hints here for problems with Sears' 109 (notAtlas). Those users will do well to join a 109 related group to seekand share ideas.

If you got to this file directly from my HOME PAGE, return there by usingyour browser's back button. BUT if you came to this file as the result ofa web search engine, see more than 70 additional files on my home pageMachining and Metalworking at Home http://www.janellestudio.com/metal/

SAFETY WARNING

BEWARE: DO NOT ASSUME that any subject matter or procedure or process issafe or correct or appropriate just because it was mentioned in a news/

user group or was included in these files or on this site or on any otherweb site or was published in a magazine or book or video.

Working with metals and machinery and chemicals and electrical equipmentis inherently dangerous. Wear safety devices and clothing as appropriate.Remove watches, rings, and jewellery -- and secure or remove looseclothing -- before operating any machine.

Read, understand and follow the latest operating procedures and safetyinstructions provided by the manufacturer of your machine or tool orproduct. If you do not have those most recent official instructions,acquire a copy through the manufacturer before operating or using theirproduct. Where the company no longer exists, use the appropriate news oruser group to locate an official copy. Be careful -- original instructionsmay not meet current safety standards. Updated safety information andoperating instructions may also be available through a local club, a localprofessional in the trade, a local business, or an appropriate governmentagency. In every case, use your common sense before beginning or taking thenext step; and do not proceed if you have any questions or doubts about anyprocedure, or the safety of any procedure. Follow all laws and codes, andemploy certified or licenced professionals as required by those laws orcodes. Hazardous tasks beyond your competence or expertise should also becontracted to professionals. Let's be really careful out there.

(c) Copyright 2003 - 2012 Machining and Metalworking at HomeThe form of the collected work in this text file (including editing,additions, and notes) is copyrighted and this file is not to bereproduced by any means, including electronic, without writtenpermission except for strictly personal use.

========================================================================

From: Jon Elson <jmelson...>Date: Tue Jun 20, 2000 4:58pmSubject: Re: bed regrind

"M K Campbell Jr." wrote:> I have a Craftsman 12x36 that the bed was in really bad> shape. The ways had worn badly and had many dings through> the whole length of the bed like they used it for an anvil> for years. If I adjusted the gibs for snug fit close to the> head stock, I could get only about 12" travel before> binding. I didn't think the lathe was worth regrinding (and> couldn't afford it either). I found a grinding shop,

> Southwest Grinding in Ft Worth, TX, that does not have a> surface grinder but the guy told me he had done several flat> bed lathes on his Blanchard grinder. He put the lathe bed on> the grinder mag chuck upside down and topped the mounting> surfaces so they were parallel with the bed surface. Then> flipped it over and took a few thousandths off the top, just> enough to remove the groove worn by the carriage. It made a> great improvement. I had to mill a little off the front gib> to get it to take up the slack.> Cost of the grinding, $32.00. If I could figure a way to grind the> bottom of the rear way, it would be even better. I know this isn't> the best solution but it's still a lot better than it was.

Wow, that's cheap!

What I was thinking, about grinding the underside of the ways, wasto build a little guide block that would ride on the top part of the bed.It would wrap around the bed way, and hold a grinder (Dremel,air die grinder, etc.) with an adjustable mount, so it could be broughtup in tiny increments until it removes the low spot. This could be movedby hand to grind the bottom parallel to the top.

Jon

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From: gcontreras <latheworks...>Date: Tue Jun 20, 2000 6:53pmSubject: Re: bed regrind

Some time ago, I too was faced with this "resurfacing" problem on my justbought Atlas 3990. I did the same thing; had the bed reground by anautomotive repair shop (does big diesel engine repairs).

The guy first setup several high T rests and surfaced the top of these.This would assure that the lathe bed would sit on a true surface. The bedwas held on these T rests from the underside of the lathe bed (way)proper as it had little or not wear at all as the feet had been removed.The result was just about right. I then laped the bed with a home made40" straight edge (2" x 5"). What you want is to have all the surfacesparallel and square to each other. When I first placed the carriage onthe bed I could barely remove it as it seemed to have stuck it self tothe bed surface! The bed was that flat.

I have just completed the paint work and have taken my first cut afterleveling. No problem at all! A straight cut, no strange markings (rings)and no binding across the entire bed. Well worth it Jim as my lathe a0.5mm groove on the front shear running towards the headstock and I feelI'm better off... Cost? about $60.00.

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From: Jon Elson <jmelson...>Date: Tue Jun 20, 2000 7:56pm

Subject: Re: Re: bed regrind,bottom

Pete & Sheri wrote:> I wonder how much wear actually occurs on the "bottom" surfaces. I had a> 10-54 years ago that had lots of wear on the top of the rails, but that> wear was from the carriage running back and forth. The wear on the rear> side would have been from the bed resisting the tool, I assume. But> I wonder if the forces on the underside of the bed would create enough> wear to worry about. Has anybody had a bed reground who knows what had> to be taken off of the "bottom" in order to true it up?

Unless the gibs on the bottom were set VERY tight, or there was a lot ofswarf getting under there (which is a possibility), there should be VERYlittle wear. But, when the top of the bed is reground, it is unlikely thatthe bottom edge is still totally parallel to the top. That's what matters.So, if the grinding ended up taking a little more off one end than theother, the vertical thickness of the ways will now have a 'taper' from oneend to the other. That would make setting the bottom gib shims rathertricky, and leave it loose at one end. Strong tool infeed pressure willlift the back of the carriage if the bottom gibs are not fairly snug.This is a problem when parting-off, for instance, also with threading.

Jon

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From: Walter E Emery <wemery...>Date: Wed Jun 21, 2000 7:32pmSubject: Re: bed regrind

Blanchard grinding is done with a large diameter ring stone with the partto be ground on a rotating magnetic table, usually with pretty coarse gritstones and flooding coolant. I had one in my shop for many years, but wouldnever use it for lathe beds. Its main purpose is rapid removal of stock.

While a Blanchard is usually sufficient for automotive cylinder heads whichwill sit stationary on a gasket, I certainly wouldn't want my lathe bedground that way, as it will leave swirl marks across the ways which willnot be conducive to even wear or smooth operation. A big surface grinderis required with a skilled operator to do the job properly. Even a fewthousandths of taper can really screw up the operation of your lathe, andas Earl said, the guy must know what wheels to use.

Walt Emery

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From: Guy Fuller <gfuller...>Date: Mon Jun 26, 2000 8:23pmSubject: Re: re: bed regrind

>>Mickey, For a novice would you please expound a little on hand scraping.> Ouch! That's not an easy subject. But, historically, the accuracy of> machine tools was assured not by grinding the bed on a huge surface> grinder, but by a guy with a small hand tool and a big straightedge.>> The general way this is done is you apply some blue painter's pigment> (Prussian Blue) to either the object or the straightedge (surface plate,> precision square, etc.) and then rub the two together. By examining> the pattern left on the part, you can see how accurately it fits against> the master. When it gets quite close, you can start tweaking how many> microscopic high spots per square inch there are. These high spots> are called bearing points. Supposedly, you are supposed to go for> about 25 bearing points per square inch.>> How this is done is that the pattern of the bluing tells you where the> high spots are, and you use the scraping tool to scrape off tiny> slivers of iron until the high spots are reduced. Then, you check> against the straight edge again.>> There is a LOT of technique to this. I have done some small experiments> with it, and found it does work, and can be done without vast> amounts of skill. I suspect the skill comes in when planning how> to perform spotting and scraping on larger pieces, where you can> quickly get in a mess while working on one area, such that another> area is totally off. I have a well worn Bridgeport that really needs> a good scraping job done on it.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 11:37:07 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: New to the list

In a message dated 9/19/00, fbcwinx~xx3g.quik.com writes:<< Here's a quick question: The cross slide seems to have quite a bit ofplay in it. Any suggestions on how to shore it up for facing turns? >>

Look along the right side of the cross slide. There should be some smallheadless screws with thin lock nuts there. These adjust the gib (or jib)which is a piece that bears against the side of dovetail where the crossslide moves.

Using a thin wrench loosen the lock nuts a bit, use a screwdriver totighten the screws till you feel the cross slide is locked then

loosen just enough to let it move. Kind of a tedious project to get allthe adjustment screws set, then locked so the cross slide moves easilywith no shake. You, (or at least I do) have to have wrench in one hand,screwdriver in other But, a normal part of using a lathe.

John Meacham

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 08:55:48 -0700From: "Robert Streimikes" <rjsx~xxtmisnet.com>Subject: Re: New to the list

From: "Harry Boyd"> My trouble is not that the gib screws are loose. I can tighten them down> fully, and the whole cross slide will still vibrate. Any ideas?

If you have tightened both sets of gibs (cross slide and compound) andstill have the problem then perhaps the saddle is what is vibrating? Ifso the relevant adjustments are underneath the saddle and there have beena bunch of posts in the past on how to deal with it (esp on what to doafter you break the cheezy cast iron gibs (or what ever they are called)down there.)

Regards Bob

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 12:03:42 -0400From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: New to the list

>My trouble is not that the gib screws are loose. I can tighten them down>fully, and the whole cross slide will still vibrate. Any ideas? Harry

Do you mean that the carriage vibrates? The carriage is the piece thatslides on the bed of the lathe. The cross slide slides in and out on thecarriage.

The carriage has a gib on the back, I believe. There are also adjustingshims underneath the carriage to take up slop in the vertical direction.

Older lathe beds often have sufficient wear that the carriage must besomewhat loose at a normal working distance from the headstock in orderto traverse the rest of the bed at all. This can be fixed by grindingor scraping, but this is not a minor procedure.

Best, Jude Miller

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:44:08 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: New to the list

In a message dated 9/20/00, fbcwinx~xx3g.quik.com writes:<< My trouble is not that the gib screws are loose. I can tighten themdown fully, and the whole cross slide will still vibrate. Any ideas? >>

Hi Harry:Are you sure there is a gib in there? Also make sure you loosen the locknuts enough since I have had the locknuts "lock up" before I got fulltravel on the adjustment screws. Otherwise, if everything is tight andsnug, maybe you are taking too large a bite out of your work. One thing tolook for is the difference between plain turning and facing. When you areworking on a round piece to reduce diameter there is some clearance forthe front of the tool due to the geometry of the set up. (Visualize a flatended tool against a clyinder and there is front clearance just becausethe work piece is round.) When facing it is much easier for the "heel" ofthe tool to drag on the work. If all else fails try to regrind your toolbit to give more clearance to the front end.

John Meacham

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 15:32:58 -0500From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: loose cross slide?

> In a message dated 9/20/00, fbcwinx~xx3g.quik.com writes:> << My trouble is not that the gib screws are loose. I can tighten them> down fully, and the whole cross slide will still vibrate. Any ideas? >>

Well, there has to be something loose! There are a number of possibilities.There is a gib on the back of the carriage, and two gibs on the UNDERSIDEof the carriage. These are two steel (or cast iron?) plates, with laminatedaluminum shims underneath. On several Atlas lathes that had been'buggered', the laminated shims were turned into accordion pleats, makingthe gib very loose. This allows the carriage to lift up off the bed withheavy infeed force. You tighten these gibs up by peeling a laminatedstrip, one at a time.

There is also a gib on the carriage, and one on the compound slide. Thecompound slide tends to get loose, as it is a lightly constructed piece.Finally, there is a swivel that the lower part of the compound slide restson. There can be problems that cause the swivel to not bear weightproperly, so that it wobbles.

On a light lathe like the Atlas, you should be able to apply forces withyour hand to make the loose junction shift. Without the spindle running,

you can get your head right in there to see what is moving. Once youdetermine exactly what part is shifting, you will know where to look forthe problem.

Finally, leadscrew backlash might be the problem. If so, then youdefinitely have some kind of problem with the cutting tool shape or theway you are holding it, as it is developing too much side force on thefacing cuts.

One last (awful) possibility is that the cross slide casting has cracked,and all it needs is a little more deflection, and it will split into twobig pieces! I sure hope this is not what is happening.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2000 22:55:59 -0500From: "M K Campbell Jr." <mkcentx~xxswbell.net>Subject: Re: Leadscrews

I talked to Nolan Supply last year about Acme rod 3/4 x 8tpi. They don'tlist it in their catalog, only 6 and 10 tpi, but they custom make justabout anything you want. The guy told me they could make a 6 ft. stickfor me for around 50.00 if I remember right. I ended up finding areplacement for my 12x36 so I didn't ever order it.

Nolan is at 800-736-2204 or www.nolansupply.com

Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, Texasmkctools.com Craftsman 101.28990 12x36

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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2000 21:23:51 -0500From: "J Tiers" <jtiersx~xxworldinter.net>Subject: Re: Green Model 109.2127

The green color probably indicates a re-paint job, that's all, I thinkthey were blue to start with in newer models.No parts are available, almost, except for used, or whatever M Herman has.He adverts in Home Shop Machinist magazine in the classifieds. A guy inArizona also is supposed to have parts, but he seems to run hot and coldas the mood takes him.Anyhow, I have heard of doing the JB weld trick, but using a material thatwas described as "titanium putty". Seems like JB with a better binder anddifferent filler metal. Done by professional rebuilders, on halfnuts yet.You can try JB, or get the other stuff from J&L Industrial etc, etc. ($$$)maybe some clean cast iron filings mixed in would stiffen JB up a bit, Itried it on another item and it seemed to work.

Grease up the leadscrew and clean the halfnut lever like crazy before youdo it. You might even try boiling it in water for a while, as the castiron soaks up oil deep in the pores and that is poison to adhesives.

Chatter is the big issue with the 109 because it is so light built. Afollower rest is perfect. There are plans for one in the AAdocs 2 file inthe metalworking dropbox, which I forget right now how to get to. Clampsonto the crosslide ways to hold it.Oil the daylights out of the rest fingers and it won't be too bad. Andthe smoother the fingers are the less they mark the surface.$100 is the right type of price, its what I paid, and I got a faceplatebut no chuck. Hey, some people have paid up to $500 for the same thing.

Jerry

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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2000 10:30:22 EDTFrom: ccnn51x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Green Model 109.2127

In a message dated 9/25/00, jtiersx~xxworldinter.net writes:< Anyhow, I have heard of doing the JB weld trick, but using a materialthat was described as "titanium putty". Seems like JB with a betterbinder and different filler metal. Done by professional rebuilders, onhalfnuts yet. You can try JB, or get the other stuff from J&L Industrialetc, etc. ($$$) maybe some clean cast iron filings mixed in wouldstiffen JB up a bit, I tried it on another item and it seemed to work.Grease up the leadscrew and clean the halfnut lever like crazy beforeyou do it. You might even try boiling it in water for a while, as the castiron soaks up oil deep in the pores and that is poison to adhesives.>>

Iron filings mixed with JB Weld? Might work. Need to be clean alright;not from around a grinding wheel. Maybe from use of a real fine file. Iwouldn't use grease on the leadscrew; wipe really good and then wipereally well with wax paper. Grease can contaminate the JB. Yes, boilthe halfnut with a little acid cleaner.

But are you sure this is necessary? If you use a spring weight scale onthe close lever for the halfnuts and apply an extra 2 pounds after it isclosed, will it be tight on the leadscrew? If so the problem may be thespring and ball bearing. Often they are worn and the spring is not strongenough. To replace, open the halfnuts, and take off the handwheel on theright end of the leadscrew. File off the burr from the setscrew and pushthe leadscrew to the left. Loosen the four front screws for the frontgibbs and remove the back gibb from the carriage. Lift off the carriage.When you flip the lever for the halfnuts the other way the ballbearingand spring will fire out so have it pointed down in a big plastic pail.Get a new ballbearing and spring (stiffer than before) that just enterthe hole (got mine from ACE Hardware). Make sure the spring is groundflat at the ends and remove any sharp edges.

Clark Nicholas

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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2000 02:39:08 -0000From: "Steven Christmann" <SChristmannx~xxCompuserve.com>Subject: Re: Carriage Clearance

Hi Dale: Actually, I didn't pay a dime for my regrind (I called in afavor from a supplier at work). If I were to buy this service, however,it shouldn't be more than $25 for a top grind, and another $10-$15to 'dust' the positive edge for squareness. Careful though - the wayson these lathes are thin to start with - you wouldn't want to removemuch more than .005"-.010" If you need, I can give you numbers forseveral good grind houses in the Detroit area.

I noticed that mine (which had taken to sagging in the middle fromcarriage weight and an improper stand) runs very true now -about .0003" max flat and coplanar across the entire bed length.

It might also help if you regrind the bottom mating surface of theheadstock parallel to the bearing bores, and the bottom surface ofthe tailstock - this way you won't experience any runout later on. Ialso set my headstock-tailstock on a surface plate and set theheights together. If you want, I can e-mail you the drawings for ajig that I made up to hold the headstock upside down for grinding. Ithink Atlas did a pretty sloppy fitting job on these lathes originally.

Hope that helps,Steve

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Date: Sat, 18 Nov 2000 08:36:14 -0600 (CST)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Leveling a lathe...

The 'Lathe Bulletin 101.07-3" discusses the reasons and methods ofleveling a lathe bed. Leveling, according to the bulletin means; Thebed ways must be parallel with themselves. Absolutely level bed isessential for accurate lathe work. The bulletin warns that a twisted bedis also harmful to the lathe. The best way to do this is make the bedways level to the world.

A drawing shows a 6" Atlas lathe, sans the carriage and tail stock. (iknow this is a 6" as it only has 1 mounting bolt hole on the right handbed foundation. (facing the lathe) On the bed are 4 machinist's levels.(of course, this is only showing the positions 1 level is positioned forthis test.) The positions shown are across the bed close to theheadstock, parallel to the bed ways near the center of the bed, andacross the ways near the right hand end of the bed. This level is aprecision machinist's spirit level, such as a L.S. Starrett No. 96. Asensitive level should move the bubble about 1/8" when a .003 shim isplaced one end of the level.

Shims (1" x 4"), metal or cardboard, should be placed between the benchtop and foundation around the bolts on the headstock end. (a notch toaccommodate the bolt is shown .) Shims are placed on either side of the

bolt on the tailstock end. These shims should be added/removed toachieve level.

I'm sorry that I can't post a picture of the page, but my WebTV (c)Microsoft won't let me do that! (boo-hoo, baby!)

Leo

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(Atlas E-group files)Leo, I posted a couple of pages out of the manual for you. Jus tryin'to help out.... Bill C. Files: "Clemens's Iron Stuff"

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Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2000 10:24:44 -0600From: <jts4545x~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: 6-18 [atlas_craftsman]

> On 19 Nov 2000, Den & Betty Haas wrote:> > I have a 6-18 Atlas that I took out of the crate from the factory> > in 1977. Been lurking on this list & the serial nos. I have don't> > seem to jibe with what I see. Here are the specs on what I have.> > SN 3950 Mod. No. 002328 Number on the bearing that I can see on> > the chuck end of the headstock is NTN 620SLU. This lathe came with a> > square, plastic gear cover that has since been melted in a fire. It> > came with a Dayton Mod. 5K261B, 1/3 hp motor. 1725 rpm, 115v.> > Can anybody enlighten me as to what I have & when it was made?> > Thanks Den Den & Betty Haas Nov. 25, 2000

From: "Marty Escarcega" <escarcegax~xxhome.com>> You have what appears to be one of the last incarnations of the> lathe before it was discontinued by Clausing. Our group still> supports it, but admittedly most everyone has one of the older> machines. Use it and enjoy it, if we can answer any questions at> all, please feel free to ask. Marty, Moderator Atlas_Craftsman Group

I saw your post on the model 3950. Advertised dimensions are 6 x 19 inches,with 1-10 thread headstock spindle. I have the same model. It was madebetween 1977 and 1980. this the next to the last model. The last model waspainted blue and included an all-metric version, very rare now. NTN isstill in business. You can cross-reference the bearing number if you needreplacements. Get on www.thomasregister.com to track them down (free).Dayton is now owned by W.W. Grainger, a huge supply firm. You may be ableto cross reference the motor if you need replacement. Grainger websitecan be hunted up.

Atlas sold a variety of motors, mine is by Westinghouse Electric.

> >First thing is contact Clausing Service Center to get in touch withTechnical Support. Ph 219-533-0371, e-mail joldsx~xxclausing-industrial.com

Tell them what happened and get PRINTED information on what to do (FAX orMail). Get prices on replacement parts and accessories (free!), like themelted cover. If parts are discontinued, contact Technical Support forsubstitute sources or dimensioned drawings so you can make your own parts.

Also, ask Technical Support to get wiring diagrams for hooking up thereversing drum switch Clausing sells for the motors. The diagram needs tobe specific for your motor. The switch is a Furnas Electric Style A-14.I think Furnas is still in business, check with them if needed. Contactthrough thomasregister site.

> Important tips, a rigid base or bench with plenty of width is advisable,with swiveling leveling feet on each leg. If the base is narrow, go withheavy gage steel or cast iron machine bases. Tighten screws on lathe bedfeet in small increments while watching the precision level bubble. Thelathe bed can be tension sensitive. Shims alone without checking tensionis not successful.

>Use way lubricant, instead of ordinary motor oil on bedways, sidegib,dovetail surfaces, and clamps of carriage. It will eliminate "chatterand "stick slip" when threading or power feeding. A drop or two on thecarriage gear contacting the leadscrew really smooths things up. Use theminimum, because the lube is very sticky. Mobil Oil makes "Vactra" brandin a 1 gal. and 5 gal. sizes. Other makers make similar way lube products.

>If possible, get the threading gearsette accessories. One set will letyou make coarse thrteads down to 5 threads per inch. An importantconsideration if you need to make parts for larger size lathes. Even theexpensive Myford 7x19 lathe from England can't do this!!

E-mail me if your need more tips on this lathe.

James Sprott

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Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 16:19:47 -0000From: "William Clemens" <billsandx~xxnfx.net>Subject: Re: new owner

"Franke, Jim" <frankejx~xxh...> wrote: >Hi, I'm Jim. I am new to this group.>I just recently purchased a 6" atlas lathe and am very excited about>getting it up and running. I had spent approximately 2 1/2 years building>one of the Gingery home made lathes and it works well, but I have gotten a>little frustrated with it. It requires quite a bit of attention for every>operation and is not always reliable or predictable. I was very lucky

>and found this atlas lathe for a modest price compared to what they were>selling for on ebay. Plus it already has thread cutting capability and I>would have to build the Gingery miller and dividing head in order to make>change gears for my home made lathe. Enough back ground I guess.>In cleaning up and inspecting this atlas lathe I did find something that I>hope someone out there can help me with. The carriage seems to move less>than smoothly when operated with the hand wheel. It appears that the rack>attached to the lathe bed may have some damage to it in a few spots. I>attempted to remove it by removing the retaining screws but there appear>to be 2 pins, 1 at either end that that also secure it. I was afraid to>pry on the rack to losen it for fear of bending it. My question then is,>are these 2 pins just alignment pins or are they screws that feed from the>inner side of bed, and what is the best way to remove the rack so I can>replace it or repair it? Thanks. Jim

Jim, The older atlas machines used taper pins for alignment and for agreater shear proof attachment of the rack to the ways. An old trickwas to turn the rack end for end to bring the outer portion into useclose to the headstock where most of the work is done, but I don'tthink you can do that with the 6" machine( I'm going to check mine tosee for sure). You should be able to pry it loose (evenly) with avery small heel type pry bar, or well placed heel blocks close to therack. It is mild steel, so you may be able to do some touch up toit...You should remove the saddle to do this you know.

Bill C.

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>> I saw your post on the 6 inch Atlas lathe. I had a similar problem withmy 3950 model., only in one spot near the headstock.

Before prying loose the rack, try this quick fix! One or 2 drops of waylubricant on the carriage gear that engages the rack. It should slide rightover the trouble spots! I used "Vactra" brand from Mobil Oil. There aresimilar way lubricants from other makers that will do the job. Try theTravers catalog at www.travers.com or local industial oil and lube supplyfirms in your area.

If the problems persist, contact Clausing Service Center and ask forTechnical Support. Give lathe model and serial number and get specificinstructions on how to fix the problem. Design changes in my model showstaked in pins, not taper pins holding the rack to the bed casting. Noprying without problems on my model! To avoid expensive damage, checkwith Technical Support first, before prying on anything!

James Sprott <<

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Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 21:50:15 -0500From: A J Palik <aajjx~xxerols.com>Subject: Lathe Bed Wear

This is a letter I wrote about a year ago. It may be of help to others.

I was having trouble turning a 1" steel shaft in my 10"x 24" Atlaslathe.I am new to lathes and wanted to check out my lathe and see if itwas turning a taper or was running true.The steel was an old piece ofline shaft.It isn't very hard so I chucked it up in my 4 jaw chuck andset the live centre in the tail stock.Starting at the tailstock andturning towards the headstock all was going well until I got about 4"down the shaft--the shaft is 16" long.The curls were rolling off thesteel tool bit as pretty as can be and slowly but surely the tool bitstarted to chatter. The further I turned the shaft the worse the chat-tering got. I tried everything ,different tool bits, carbide bits,different turning speeds, heavy cuts, fine cuts. Nothing helped.

Now mind you that this Atlas is an old one and well used.I tightened thesaddle gibs near the headstock but found that the bed was worn and hadto lossen the gibs so the saddle would run the full lenght of the bed.Iresnugged the gibs near the tail stock.The chattering didn't get anybetter.I have read that a lathe bed must be trued up byscraping,something very few master so that was out.Me being a cheap oldfart took matters into my own hands and got out my files.I selected avery fine cut file and my trusty old file card.I tightened the saddlegibs near the headstock and slowly slid the file down the sides of theways, taking light cuts on both sides of the ways(front and back). Afterevery stroke of the file I cleaned the teeth of the file with thefile card.

Every few minutes I checked my progress by wipping the waysoff,lubing them with oil and running the saddle down the bed.Slowly butsurely the saddle would travel futher and futher down the lenght of thebed.After about an hour and a half I got the ways true and now it wastime to test out my work. I now have a lathe that will cut a 16" shaftto within .001" from tailstock to headstock and no chatter.Maybe I waslucky with this method but thought I would share my ways trueing methodin case it could help others.

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Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2000 22:01:24 ESTFrom: loon432x~xxaol.comSubject: Newbe (sort of)

This is my first posting to the group, but I've been lurking for about ayear now. I have an Atlas model 618, serial # 025953. It was in prettybad shape when I aquired it. The bed was slightly warped and someone hadbeat on the ways with a large file. There were no chucks. The quill lockfor the tailstock was missing. The compound and crossfeed handles werebroken. Plus the carriage feed gear didn't mesh correctly with the rack,

so it tended to top the teeth off of even a new pinion. It did have a faceplate, change gears, wrench, and a few spare parts including a newcrossfeed screw and nut and set of half nuts. And the price was right--itwas given to me after asking the right questions.

You wouldn't recognize it now. I have rebuilt and repainted it. I had tomachine the ways to correct the warped area and remove the file dents(about .015 off the top and .005 off the sides). All 4 surfaces of bothways were machined in one setup. The carriage was belled about .003 sothat was machined out and it was also corrected for the new thickness ofthe ways.

The compound gib did not seat correctly so the dovetail was machined also.The mounting holes for the carriage gearing were bored off center andbushed to move the gearing into correct mesh with the rack (on aSherline 2000 mill believe it or not).

I made a new tailstock quill lock with radiused contact surfaces insteadof chamfered. New handles were made from stainless steel. Every matingsurface (including gibs) has been scraped in and the lathe now meets toolroom lathe specs. I got origional Pratt Bernard 3 and 4 jaw chucks fromKitts Supply when they still had them.

The 4 jaw, which was 3/4-16, had to be bored and rethreaded to 1-10. Thiswas done by mounting the chuck on the face plate with it's own jaws andindicating it in after making an exact copy of the spindle threads tocheck it with.

I would highly reccommend the book MACHINE TOOL RECONDITIONING by EdwardF. Connelly. It tells you how to scrape and make scrapers and has stepby step proceedures for rebuilding a lathe, milling machine, and grindingmachine. It is well worth what ever price you pay for it.

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Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 20:19:28 -0500From: "ebower" <ebowerx~xxlcsys.net>Subject: Re: Sears/AA Lead / crossslide screw threads?

Mike, The leadscrew for the AA is the same as the Atlas 6". The threadis 1/2-16 ACME RH Stub. I have chased these in the past. I have also madea replacement for my 6" Atlas. I have both lathes. If you want to buy aleadscrew, contact Clausing and ask the price of the 3950-16 screw collarassembly. You will have to shorten the leadscrew (on the bearing end)because the Atlas 6" is approximately 24" long.

I had special acme cutters made to chase these threads. They must be doneon a lathe other than the AA.

Earl

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 00:41:07 -0000From: "Tim Clarke" <ratshooterx~xxaol.com>Subject: LEVELING, c'mon you guys!

Some time back, there was an article in H.S.M. about setting up yourlathe. The author said a few thing that really made sense, one beingthat on small, flexible bench lathes, the load applied during cuttingcan't be ignored. Another was that being dead nuts level isn't nearas important as removing twist. What I did after reading the article,was to level with my machinist level, and it ain't a master precision.Then I made a upright clamped to the toolholder about 2 feel tall.

From this I hung a homemade plumb bob. I laid a steel scale underneathheld to the crosslide with a magnet. Then, by cranking the carriageto the extreme limits of it's travel, I discovered I had a twist inmy bed. I cut shims from sheel metal, tin foil, and plastic from therecycle box. I guess the whole effort lasted about an hour.

After leveling, I adjusted the tailstock as described in a couple ofprevious posts. There is little need to spend a bunch of your beerand bait money on something you'll use infrequently and don't reallyneed. There is usually a way around any rule chiseled in stone, andit has always amazed me how simple it seems when someone tells me.

Many thanks to the now forgotten old geezer who shared this with me,and I hope that this works for you as well as it has for me.

Regards, Tim in Oregon

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 14:35:47 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: LEVELING, c'mon you guys!

Jim Irwin wrote:> 'Taint that hard, pard. To work best, a machine has to be straight and> square with itself according to its design. To get it to that ideal> condition, you have to have some reference point. You could use the> north star just as well. But most folks find it easiest to use> Mother Earth's force of gravity as a semi-permanent> reference. The instrument of choice for this is a level.> However, one can use the> 2ft long plumb-bob and accurate scale method quite nicely.> 0.005 x 2 ft is 0.010...certainly easy enough to see with a good> scale (I'd need a magnifier, though!).> My level is an English 6 incher divided to 0.005in per ft.> Master levels divide to 0.0005. How much precision do you want?> One would drive himself crazy trying> to level to 0.0005 using shims, as they are much thicker than this.> I level the bench my lathe is mounted to. The bench is 2 1/2 ft deep> and 4 ft wide. With my level I can detect a sheet of paper under

> any mount foot. Best regards, Jim Irwin

Yeah, but if you want to turn to within a thou, you need less than 0.0005(1/2 of 0.001 inch) variation in the tool position as you move along thebed. On a 12 inch lathe, that corresponds to roughly the same amount oftwist in the bed.

If the headstock end of the bed is level (front-to-back, not along thelength of the bed), then the tailstock end must be level within+/- 1/2 thou per six inches. This is almost as close as you can measurewith a master precision level. If you level with a coarser level, youcan easily have several thou of twist in the bed, meaning you will turna taper of up to twice that.

There is another method, called Rollie's Dad's method, which doesn't usea level. I've included it here as text. RDM probably doesn't work as wellas a really good level, but it doesn't require one either.

This is one of several descriptions I found on the 'Net.

Best,Jude Miller

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Rollie's Dad's Method of Lathe AlignmentCopyright 1997 by New England Model Engineering Society.

What you need:A round barThe bar length should be about 1/3 to 2/3 the bed length.The bar must be of one diameter along most or all of its length.The bar does not have to be completely straight.Since Rollie has a car repair shop, he uses the shafts from junked shocksand struts.A dial indicatorThe end of the measuring rod should be flat.A means of mounting the indicator on the cross-slide.To do a vertical alignment the mount must be adjustable.A chuck of any type to hold the bar.Runout in the chuck is not a problem (for the same reason that a slightbend in the rod is not a problem).

What you DON'T needA tailstock, perfectly straight bar, a collet or precision chuck or anytool bits.

Applying the method (Horizontal Alignment)

1. Put the bar in the chuck.2. Mount the dial indicator on the cross-slide at the center height of the lathe.3. With the carrige near the chuck end, adjust the cross-slide so that the indicator reads a convienient "zero" value like 0.100

4. Turning the lathe by hand, adjust the cross-slide so that whatever runout you have is equal on both sides of your "zero" (say .105, .095).5. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand to clear any irregularities and move the carrige to the other end of the bar.6. If the runout is not also centered there (say .110, .098) then your lathe is twisted and a foot should be shimmed.7. Repeat from step 4 until runout at both ends is evenly divided on either side of your "zero".

Applying the method (Vertical Alignment)

1. Put the bar in the chuck.2. Mount the dial indicator on the carridge so that it is directly above the center line of the spindle.3. With the carrige near the chuck end, adjust the indicator mount so that the indicator reads a convienient "zero" value like 0.1004. Turning the lathe by hand, adjust the indicator mount so that whateverrunout you have is equal on both sides of your "zero" (say .105, .095).5. Pull the indicator's measuring rod back by hand to clear any irregularities and move the carriage to the other end of the bar.6. If the runout is not also centered there (say .110, .098) then your lathe is twisted and a foot should be shimmed.7. Repeat from step 4 until runout at both ends is evenly divided on either side of your "zero".

Why This Method Works

When the runout is evenly divided, at the zero point the runout isentirely in the vertical plane and the side of the bar is exactly onebar radius from the turning axis of the spindle. If the runout is evenlydivided at both ends of the bar, the spindle is rotating in a planeparallel to the ways.

Common Error

Some people will turn the lathe to the point where the indicator reads"zero" and then move the carridge down to the other end to see if itstill reads "zero". That method will only work if your bar is known tobe perfectly straight. Do not confuse that method with this one.

I learned all this from a fellow member of the New England ModelEngineering Society. Join us the first Thursday of every month at theCharles River Museum of Industry in Waltham, Mass.

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:32:41 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: Re: LEVELING, c'mon you guys!

cdhintonx~xxmsn.com wrote:> If the lathe is off in the vertical- doesn't this indicate that the> lathe is sway backed or humped back? And how would shimming a foot> correct this? Craig

If the lathe has a hump or a sag in the bed, then the level will readdifferently if placed on the long axis of the lathe at the headstock andtailstock ends.

This is less serious than twist, since the cutting radius is little changedby vertical misalignment. A vertical error of 5 thou on a workpiece0.5 inches in diameter increases the diameter by about .0001 [this figurecorrected per following follow-up e-mail from Jude Miller]. The sameerror horizontally changes the diameter by 10 thou.

Depending on the feet, they may be shimmed under the sides and the endto remove misalignment. The idea is to shim e.g. the middle of the farend of the tailstock foot higher than the part toward the headstockto decrease hump, lower for sag.

Best,Jude Miller

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 17:38:58 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: Re: LEVELING, c'mon you guys!

Slipped a decimal place there. A vertical error of 5 thou on a 1/2 inchworkpiece changes diameter by only about a tenth (0.0001 inch). Thehorizontal error is correct at 10 thou.

Best,Jude Miller

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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2000 20:05:23 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: LEVELING, c'mon you guys!

In a message 12/22/00, jmreidx~xxu.washington.edu writes:>The point of levelling is not just to do it on the length of the bed,>but also to check for twist by using the level crosswise at both ends.

On my 12X48 Craftsman/Atlas there are only three mounting holes, two underthe head stock and only one in the middle at the tail stock end. Neverworried too much about this, and I remember some article in an old ModelEngineering magazine that recomended this type of mounting for a Myford ofabout the same dimensions. The method recomended there was to bolt theheadstock end down tight, but leave the third mounting at the tailstock alittle slack, just enough to keep the lathe from walking off the bench. Sothat is the way mounted my lathe.

John Meacham

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Date: Mon, 22 Jan 2001 00:28:29 -0600From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Carriage adjustment?

mfb1fyfbx~xxteisprint.com wrote:> I need to adjust the Carriage (it moves between the head stock & tail> stock, with the long lead screw) The cross slide mounts on top of> it? The Carriage, cocks back& forth, when not connected to the lead> screw? When I take a cut along the lenght of a 3/4" dia of Aluminum,> the same amount of materical is remove over the lenght of the cut.> Can only find ONE setscrew to adjust (on the back side, the side W/O> the handle, for moving. On the tail stock side of the carriage.

The gibs nobody knows about are UNDER the carriage, and preventit from lifting up from the bed. There are two iron (I think) platesheld on with 2 screws each. Under part of each plate are laminatedshims. Sometimes people take these apart and get the shims caughton the screws, causing the shims to wrinkle and prevent the platesfrom riding close to the bottom of the ways.

On the back of the carriage there should be 4 gib adjusting screws toadjust front-back free play of the carriage. You have to set this forthe LEAST worn part of the bed, or it will cause binding when it getsto the least worn part.

There should also be 4 gib adjusting screws on the right side of theupper part of the cross slide casting.

I hope this info helps. this info should apply to either 10 or 12" Atlasor Atlas/Craftsman lathes.

> Cannot remove the carriage from the lathe, W/O disassembling the> lever to engage the lead screw? Hope this explains it, better?

To remove the whole carriage, there are several ways to go. You candisassemble the half-nuts, remove the bottom gibs and lift straight off.You can remove the right-end bracket for the leadscrew and pull theleadscrew straight out to the right (if you have enough room over there).Again, you can now lift straight off after removing bottom gibs. Or, youcan remove the two large Phillips-head screws in the top of the carriage,disconnecting the apron from the carriage. Then, remove bottom gibs andlift. It depends on what you want to look at as to which is the desiredmethod.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 06:24:42 -0000From: hhrjx~xxhome.comSubject: Re: Swapping Lead screw end for end

"Jerry Halcomb" <jerhalcox~xxm...> wrote:>>Someone on the list said his leadscrew was swapped on his 10". As faras I can tell on my 3983 model atlas 12" it can't be done. The right handend is smaller than the left end so unless metal can be added I don'tsee how. I am open to suggestions rather than spending $284.00 on a newlead screw. Jerry <<

Jerry, adding metal to your leadscrew shouldn't be a problem if you havethe capability to heliarc weld. I've used this several times in the paston shafting and dies. I don't know the difference in diameter betweenthe ends but if it's not too great you might try metal spray to addmaterial. I had a worn fire pump shaft sprayed and then turned to theoriginal diamenter, worked great. Cost can rival that of new parts however.

Ron Jones

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Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 21:42:45 -0800From: escarcegax~xxhome.comSubject: FORW: Lathe bed milling

Guys, I know this fellow. If any of you have been contemplating a bedregrind of your Atlas_Craftsman lathe beds contact him. My money says he'llshoot a better price on these beds because they are flat and not prismatic.If anyone contacts him, report back as to price. IF anyone has him do a bed,let us know how it went.

Marty

Found this <B6B4B78A.2DC1%40pointsx~xxhome.com> in rec.crafts.metalworking:

== BEGIN forwarded message ==

Subject: Lathe bed millingFrom: Michael Morgan <40pointsx~xxhome.com>Newsgroups: rec.crafts.metalworking

This is a sales pitch so quickly avert your eyes!If you have an old lathe and are interested in scraping it to restore thealignment of the beast, you have no doubt found that the hardest part isthe bed. Professional rebuilders almost never scrape the bed of a latheexcept for final touch up. We machine or grind them.

If you would like your lathe bed machined please let me know. I have themachine that can do it and do it cheap. OK so I think it's cheap, you maythink I am a highway man. How cheap is cheap, how about a 10X60" SouthBend with soft ways for $300.00

One note: I can only do this for individuals. Companies must hire mycompany for this work, but if you have a lathe in your garage that needssome TLC now is the time! Thanks and all of those who looked away toavoid the sales pitch may now look back again.

Mike

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Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 11:21:24 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: FORW: Lathe bed milling

escarcegax~xxhome.com wrote:> I know this fellow. If any of you have been contemplating a bed regrind> of your Atlas_Craftsman lathe beds contact him. My money says he'll shoot> a better price on these beds because they are flat and not prismatic. If> anyone contacts him, report back as to price. IF anyone has him do a bed,> let us know how it went.

I assume he's talking about milling the bed rather than grinding it?Does this give a smooth enough finish for a lathe bed? He quoted me $180for a 6 x 18 bed (i.e. 30 inch unhardened bed with flat ways).

Best,Jude Miller

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Date: Sat, 04 Nov 2000 08:24:40 -0500From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: What to look for when buying lathe

If you have a micrometer or dial caliper, measure the bed ways as follows:

1. Across the vertical surfaces of both the front and back ways.2. Distance between the 2 inner vertical surfaces.3. Thickness of ways at the front of the front way, and the back of the back way.4. distance from the top of the ways to the sliding surface of the carriage.

Do this at several locations along the bed. The most importantmeasurements are the width of the ways. Any wear here will directly affectthe ability to turn a constant diameter piece. The thickness is not nearlyas important, but the more uniform the better. The distance from the wayto the sliding surface of the carriage, is an indicator of the wear betweenthe two, excessive wear means the bed is probably also shot. The distance

between the inner vertical surfaces indicates whether the tailstock will beaccurate in its' positioning. Generally though even a badly worn bed willstill be good here. The tailstock gets moved orders of magnitude less thanthe carriage.

A couple thousandths wear between the vertical surfaces of the bed, is nottoo bad. You can compensate for this, with some time turning on that lathe.Much more than this though, should cause serious thought about the purchase.

In general look at the sliding surfaces of the rest of the lathe. The morethe original grinding marks show, the better. The top of the bed wasoriginally ground smooth, but the rest of the surfaces have a hash marklook (look at the inner way vertical surfaces, for an example).

Good luck with your inspection!Ron Thibault

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Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:30:18 -0500From: Richard Meredith <k9furx~xxmtco.com>Subject: New acme thread lead screws

I have been a non participating member of this group for some time. Iread each post with interest, and have picked up a great deal ofinformation. Several times people have asked about sources for new leadscrews. I have dealt with a small firm that specializes in Acme threadstock and nuts in Two Rivers WI for many years with good results. Theydo not cut or machine the material, but do sell UPS able lengths of justabout any Acme thread. The firm is:

Green Bay Manufacturing 2617 18th Street Two Rivers, WI 54241Phone: (920) 793-2411They do not have an internet presence that I know of, so you will haveto contact them by phone or mail. I hope this will help, and Good Luck!

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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:11:48 -0800From: "John Johnson" <jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com>Subject: Interesting Pattern

I am the second owner of a Craftsman 12x36 lathe with cabinet stand (M/N101.28990, S/N 108009) that I have had for about three years now. The firstowner bought it new from Sears about 1975. Yesterday while turning theaxles of my live steam Shay, I noticed an interesting pattern that repeatedalong the cut every 1/8". I figure that it is related to the lead screwsomehow. It appears to be some kind of light wave or disruption to the

otherwise smooth cut. I was turning steel about 1.250" diameter down to1.125" diameter. Using a carbide insert cutting tool and a quick change(phase II) type tool post taking off about .015" at a time. I was using theslowest feed rate available with the quick change gearbox (.0042" per rev).The cut was about 6" long. The axle was held on one end by the 3-jaw chuckand with a live center on the other end. It is not real objectionable andwill get covered by paint, but I was wondering if this means I have some-thing worn out. I did replace the half nuts about two years ago so I knowthey are in relatively good shape. The lead screw looks fine, but maybeit has a bend in it that might be binding something some where? I have notexplored the QC box to see if there is anything in there that looks wrong.

Any ideas?

John D.L. Johnson Chico, Californiawww.LocoGear.com

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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:53:16 -0500From: "Wayne" <burnerx~xxgsinet.net>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

John , I have sometimes noticed a swirling pattern on short andlonger turns on my 12x42. I have always thought is was in the mfg.process of the metal I was turning? I found today that my headstockbearings were a little loose, so I have tightened them up, buthave yet to turn any of the same stock to see if that was it.

Try this... remove the chuck and try to wiggle the head/main shaft.If you can feel a slop, work on the bearings. It is a simpleprocedure and I'm glad i caught mine .Good luck and keep us posted.

Wayne(rice)Burner

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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:07:56 -0600From: "J Tiers" <jtiersx~xxworldinter.net>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

Possibly you have a slightly loose carriage, and the lead screw usuallyholds it down except at one point of its revolution, maybe a slight bendand that is the high spot.

If it looks like a phonograph record, ir is probably a chatter mark, evenif you don't hear or feel a chatter. You should be able to adjust thegibs, unless you have a worn spot on the bed.

Try slathering some extra way oil on so it is under the carriage beforethe next such cut, and see if that helps. If so, probably looseness.

Jerry

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:12:47 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Interesting Pattern

jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com writes:> , I noticed an interesting pattern that repeated along the cut every 1/8

If the pattern looks like a rope or something similar it is chatter doingthat. Try changing feeds, speeds etc. Once it starts it is sure hard toget it to stop what I call roping.

John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:34:16 -0600From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

Yup. They all do it! Well, pretty much, anyway. It mostly shows upwhen making the final finish cut. I usually only see it when making afine cut with a toolpost grinder.

There are a couple of things you can do about it. First, run the lathe withthe screw driven, but the carriage half nuts open, and look for an orbitingof the leadscrew. Some of them are bent, or have a little sag in them.This will cause the carriage to rock a little bit. If the screw runs true,then clean the threads and the key slot carefully with a rag or soft toollike a screwdriver blade, to dig all the chips out of there. Lube thescrew well and try again, with the half nuts engaged. If the screwappears to move around, rather than running true, you should take thecrossfeed drive and the halfnuts apart and clean and relube them. Swarf inthe halfnuts and crossfeed drive can force the screw to move around andexert force on the carriage.

Finally, if the carriage is loose in either the forward/back or up/downdirections, a small pressure from the leadscrew can make it wobble onthe bed, disturbing the trueness of the cut.

Most likely not the QC box, unless the screw has something jammed between

it and the collar that it fits into, or some other interference is bindingthe leadscrew so it doesn't run true. That is possible, though. You wouldsee the screw 'orbiting' if this is the case.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:17:48 -0800From: Frank Evan Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Waves...

My 10" Atlas has a worn 3-jaw chuck, a loose carriage, a heavily worn bedand a bent leadscrew, so I know why it does not make mirror finish parts.

But keep this in mind. The leadscrew is being driven by straight-cutgears. The rotary motion through a straight-cut geartrain is not linear!You will never get smooth motion of the leadscrew with the gears theselathes come with. Sure, the variance is small but it never goes to zero.

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 13:27:16 -0600From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

Ah, you must have babbit bearings, then. On the Timken bearing lathes,the same tapered roller bearings handle both axial and radial loads.

If your thrust bearing were rough, you would be able to feel it whenturning the spindle manually. I think it is pretty hard for the babbitbearing to develop roughness this way, as the rotation of the lathe wouldsmooth it off pretty quickly. It could be some vibration from the geartrain that drives the leadscrew. But, it could also be tool vibration, orpossible deflection of the workpiece. That is a common problem.Are you using a sharp-pointed tool, or does it take a wide cut? If thecut is too wide, it will cause vibration on these lighter lathes.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 16:52:06 -0600From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

Jude Miller wrote:> Oilite spindle bearings, ball thrust bearing. The spindle> turns smoothly, the roughness is noticeably if I load the> thrust bearing by pushing the spindle toward the headstock as I turn.

Ahh, I thought you had mentioned it was a 10" Atlas, but this is the 6".If the bearings are bad, then you need to replace them. A small ballthrust bearing is not a very expensive item.

> I've should probably replace it, but I don't want to remove> the spindle again. Last time around, I was in too much of> a hurry to get the lathe running to wait for the replacement.

Well, if you are not happy with the results, then I think you need toreplace that bearing. It should not be a big job.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 01:31:57 ESTFrom: sleykinx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Digest Number 420

This may sound strange but, are your ways well oiled? A good way oilmakes a big difference in that type phenomenon. Attribute it to"sticktion" .. the carriage is supposed to ride on a film of oil andif the oil isn't tough enough or enough of it there you can get somestrange patterens ... the kind you can see but can't feel/measure (withany of my measuring sticks anyway).

Good luckGlenn

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Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:23:47 -0800From: "John Johnson" <jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com>Subject: Re: Interesting Pattern

Thanks to all who responded to my post. I think the collective wisdomis a slightly bent lead screw and loose gibs causing the carriage torock a bit making the rope like pattern. I'll have to spend some timethis weekend checking it out.

Thanks,John D.L. Johnson www.LocoGear.com

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Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 22:38:59 -0800From: "Larry Bailey" <LBailey52x~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Re: Eliminating Carriage Slop

>From: airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>On my 6" 101.07301 lathe, the backside of the carriage has some>vertical play. I checked it out and found that the upper gib>was a little wider than the thickness of the way, and that there>was a gap of a few thousanths between the bottom gib and the>underside of the way. I carefully filed the bottom edge of the>upper gib until it fit perfectly against the edge of the way>without protruding past the bottom edge of the way. This enabled

>the bottom gib to move closer to the underside of the way, but>not quite close enough. Using a dial indicator, I can pull up>on the carriage with the indicator reading .0025 of play. What>is the best way to remove this play? It looks to me that the>carriage would need to be milled a few thou where the bottom>gib bolts on, and then the gib shimmed to proper fit. Is this>the way to do it, or is there another way? Regards, Don Smith

On my 12" there are brass shims in the 0.002-0.003" range to close thisspace. One uses the correct shims to fill the space while still allowingthe carriage to travel smoothly. Check your parts diagrams. You probablyneed something similar.

Larry

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 08:06:51 -0500From: "Trammell, Rex" <rex.trammellx~xxperkinelmer.com>Subject: RE: Eliminating Carriage Slop

Yes, the six inch works the same way. These shims are easy to cut soyou can make your own. The only limit on how well you can fit thecarriage is bed wear. You set the shims so that the carriage is snugwhere the bed is not worn. The carriage will then be looser where thebed is worn thinner.

Rex

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 08:55:12 -0800 (PST)From: Don Smith <airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: RE: Eliminating Carriage Slop

I think there`s a misunderstanding of the problem on my carriage. Addingshims will "increase" the slop in my carriage, and removing shims will"decrease" the slop in the carriage. In other words, the bottom plate thatrides along the underside edge of the way, will be farther away if I addshims, creating more slop. The more shims you remove, the less slop youhave in the carriage, because removing shims brings the bottom plate closerto the bed, while adding them moves the plate away from the bed. Theproblem is that I can`t get the bottom plate any closer to the bed becausethere are no more shims to remove

Don...

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:02:47 ESTFrom: LADDERBARx~xxaol.comSubject: carriage play

Look at the plates to see if there is any wear in it, if there is turn itover to the side that doesn't have any. (Take a stone to it to remove anyburrs.) If play still exists look for wear on the bed rails or thecarriage itself. Happy chip making.

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 10:30:26 -0800 (PST)From: Don Smith <airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: carriage play

The plates are in perfect condition. As far as I can see, on my lathe theproblem has to be either a worn bed, or a worn carriage. The only way I cansee of correcting the problem without replacing the bed or carriage, is tomill a few thousanths off the bottom edge of the carriage where the bottomplate bolts on, and then just simply shim the plate to suit my needs, ormake a special plate with a step on it.

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:19:05 -0500From: "Trammell, Rex" <rex.trammellx~xxperkinelmer.com>Subject: RE: carriage play

You seem to understand how it all works but it still seems strange. Thestack of shims is quite thick so the bed or the carriage would have towear a lot in order to cause the condition you describe. If the bed isworn that much it will probably not be worn uniformly so achieving a snugfit from one end to the other will be hard. Also, since the bed onlywears in the area where the carriage contacts, outer 3/8 inch or so,there would be a visible step showing the wear. If the wear is in thecarriage itself milling off the bottom edge would fix the problem. Theidea of a special plate with a step sounds good since you aren't riskinganything very expensive to try it. Be sure to let us know how it turns out.

Rex

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:27:58 -0800 (PST)From: Don Smith <airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: RE: carriage play

Hi Rex,Actually, my lathe, which I`ve only owned since last Tuesday, only had oneshim between the plate and the carriage. This single shim was .0045 Anyway,

I have solved the problem by milling the carriage where the plate bolts on.I only milled enough to suit my needs. The plate is now installed with noshims, and everything fits perfectly with no play, and the carriage movessmoothly. I could have milled some more metal off the carriage and shimmedthe plate, so that as the bed wears, all I would have to do is re-adjustthe thickness of the shims, but I decided to wait and do that next time.For now everything is fine the way it is. I measured the thickness of thebed, and starting from the tailstock end, and measuring about every 6inches, I got readings of .430-.430-.429-.427 and .428

Since the .428 reading was right in front of the headstock, I wasexpecting a reading closer to .430 like the other end of the bed. My nextjob is to align the tailstock.

Don...

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Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:29:21 -0600From: "J Tiers" <jtiersx~xxworldinter.net>Subject: Re: carriage play

Poster wrote:>The only way I can see of correcting the problem without replacing the>bed or carriage, is to mill a few thousanths off the bottom edge of the>carriage where the bottom plate bolts on, and then just simply shim the>plate to suit my needs, or make a special plate with a step on it.

I suppose you could turn the problem inside out, by putting a shim in,somewhat in the nature of a gib. That is, between the plate and the way.Then in order to get a reasonable thickness of the new "gib" , you canshim the plate out a bit. The "gib" can be secured several possible ways,including just bending up ears on the ends, or better, pinning it wherea pin won't interfere.

Jerry

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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 04:41:38 -0000From: fyunchx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Eliminating Carriage Slop

HOw about milling a replacement bottom plate which is thinner where itattaches to the carriage, so that the other, unthinned part is higherthan the bottom of the carriage? Then you can shim to fit.

W.C. Gates

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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 00:17:27 -0600From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Eliminating Carriage Slop

Right. I didn't reply before because I am only familiar with the 10 and 12"Atlas. Well, why is there so much clearance? Has the bed been reground, orhas the carriage worn down that much? They usually gave a pretty generousallowance for wear, at least .015" to .020", at least on the 10".

If the bottom gib has a groove worn where the bed rubs on it, you can flipthe gib over and use the other side. If the bed is worn only in themost-used area, tightening the gib up too much will cause binding at eitherextreme end. If the bed is uniformly worn, or the carriage is worn down onthe bottom, then you may have to either scrape down the lands the gibsattach to, or make a custom gib with a step in it. Other possibilities areto put shims under the carriage or wrap shims around the wear area on thegib, so that it constrains the carriage from lifting. Without knowing whythe shim allowance is used up, it is hard to advise in a more specific way.

Finally, you might want to find out what caused all this wear, and makesure you are using proper lubricants to prevent it as much as possiblein the future.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:05:58 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Eliminating Carriage Slop

Don Smith wrote: << --- The problem is that I can`t get the bottom plateany closer to the bed because there are no more shims to remove. --- >>

Sounds like maybe you have a late model carriage (for deeper ways) on anearly model lathe.

Firstly, you might try to find the correct carriage for your way depthmeasurement.

Secondly, if you insist on trying to make this carriage work on yourpresent lathe, measure the depth of your ways, then arrange to machinethe matching part of the carriage to a few thou less than thatmeasurement. When you reinstall it on the bed include a few shims to

adjust the fit. In the future, presuming wear over a long period of time,you can then remove some of the shims to readjust the fit. That's the waythe system is designed to function.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 09:16:07 -0600From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." <mkcentx~xxswbell.net>Subject: Re: Dollar short, day late

> I just wonder how to adjust the backgear/ backgear cover on it so> it don't rattle so much when I use it.

I fixed a lathe I used to have that had that problem. I epoxied one ofthose little super magnets to the inside of the cover right at the edge soit locked to the headstock when closed. It worked like a champ.

Regards,Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, TEXAS12X36 101.28990 http://www.mkctools.com

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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 22:47:30 +0200From: Jean-Claude Gerber <j.c.gerberx~xxbluewin.ch>Subject: Re: Dollar short, day late

Hello John, I´m not boating and therefore could not use it as an anchor!

A piece of rubber of about 1/8" thick with contact glue on it and on therim of the backgear case; wait until it is dry to the hand; hammer onthe rim so that it glues down well, cut it with a blade to leave justa strip running on the rim and rattling has gone.

Don´t sleep in after that, the workshop ambiance does so much change.

Jean-Claude

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Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 19:50:09 -0500From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Back gear bushing replacment

At 10:09 PM 3/27/01 -0800, you wrote:> The first time I used my 10" with the new half horse motor it> stripped about 15 teeth off the back gears. Grrr. Sobel sold me> some good used gears and I am in the process of replacing the junk> parts. One problem area is the bushings in the back gear sleeve, part> 10-248. Atlas lists the "SLEEVE with bushings" and I can see why.> There appears to be no good way to remove and replace the bushings> in this part. My bushings are clearly quite worn (like every other

> part of the lathe) and need replacement.> Has anybody replaced these? If so, how?

I use a Pilot Bearing Puller for these tasks. This puller is used toremove the bearing in a flywheel in manual auto transmissions. frontend of the transmission shaft fits into these bearings. It resembles a3 jaw pulley remover, but with the jaws arranged to open from the insideof the bearing and locking onto the blind end of the bearing. Ioriginally bough mine for, of course, removing the bearing in my Jeep.I've used it on occasion for just such jobs on my machine tools. They arenot terribly expensive, and come in handy. Mine has a range of up to1 1/2" ID and 1 1/2" long bearings.

On my Atlas I had to turn the OD of the replacement bearings slightly.When pressed in they were compressed enough to bind on the backgear shaft.

Ron Thibault

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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 00:18:48 -0500From: A J Palik <aajjx~xxerols.com>Subject: Re: anyone know??

jchodzkox~xxhotmail.com wrote:> hey all, i'm missing the thread protector that goes under> the set screw for the spindle assembly far left (threaded collar)> part#9-124.whats it made of?would a little piece of leather work?> also can anyone tell me the thickness of washer#9-87that goes on top> of the brass crossfeed nut? is it brass?took almost three weeks> via ups to get the cross feed nut.it went to texas on its' way to> calif.i want my machine back together and think it would drive me> crazy to wait so long for a washer. this is all for craftsman/atlas> 100-28990 underneath drive.thanks for any info. john

To protect the threads under the set screw I use a piece of leadshot---a small lead ball that is used in shot guns---another thing thatwill work is a small piece of lead off a wheel weight----use your pocketknife and cut it down to size

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Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:55:00 -0000From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.netSubject: Re: 9" threading chart

--- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxy..., "Dana Diller" <ddillerx~xxe...> wrote:>>> I need help. I was given a nine inch 1936 Atlas 918 Utility lathe.It is in good shape and I have it adjusted and working well. I can'tfind a gear change/threading chart. I have a manual for a 10 inch,but the gear info does not seem to fit. It is also possible that Idid not get all of the gears or other hardware. <<<

Hello Dana, many of the parts in the 10" lathe are the same as the 9"lathe. You may be able to use the 10" chart on the 9" lathe if you use

some 10" parts. It would be helpfull if you could find someone in yourarea with a 10" lathe so you could compare the gear setup with yourlathe. You can easily modify the 10" gears to fit the 9" lathe as peran Atlas bulletin at http://www.atlas-press.com/tb_chgrmod.htm

I have an early model 10" lathe which is suppose to be like the 9"and I can freely change parts with my later model 10"lathe.

lots of luckBob

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Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 06:49:46 -0400From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Back lash

>>What is the back lash which should be allowed from the handwheel.Mine is approx. 3/8" which seems to me far too large. When I dismantledthe whole carriage, I could not find any trace of wear on the handwheelshaft, neither in the train of gears going up to the pinion rack. Ilooked at the parts with a magnifier and did not see any trace of wear.Somebody knows about it ? <<

The gear train for the carriage handwheel has slots in the bracket.Loosen the three screws and slide the assembly towards the rack.

>>Dials on the compound Rest and Carriage Saddle. They seem to act asa distance ring to block the play towards the handles. Has somebodymade modifications so that the dials are much larger (the original arefor kids with good rabbit eyes) and turnable to start a job on theZero-Mark ? Thanks a lot for any help Jean-Claude <<

Look on my Web site (address below) for a short article on how I madea new zero adjustable dial for my cross feed screw.

Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USABuilder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizonahttp://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 19:47:39 EDTFrom: steamclassx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Bed Milling/Grinding>>How Much $$$ ???

Jeff..I Just had my 54" bed re-ground on my 10" Atlas and it cost me175.00. But they also did the sides and got it all squared up. Prettygood price I thought. The company is Brown & Covey of Kansas city.

John

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Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 00:31:14 -0500From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: "Squeak"

gstonex~xxTECHLINE.COM wrote:>> I have a 12" Atlas that is 25 years old. After finishing a project theother day I noticed that the spindle is noticeable stiffer than it usedto be and it has a "squeak" in what sounds like the left bearing of thehead stock. My plan is to replace both spindle bearings and the drive belt.My questions:1. Is there anything else that I should do while I have it apart?2. Does anyone have any "pearls of wisdom" about the disassembly/reassembly?I do have the original parts list and the manual of lathe operation. <<

Before tearing the lathe down, make a disc that will fit into either endof the spindle, with a step at the right diameter to securely seat ineither end. (That means, use something like 1/4" steel plate andput a shallow step on both sides. Also center drill in from bothsides. You can then use a gear puller to drive the spindle out, and

later, back in. Before pressing the spindle out, clean under thelip of the bearing inner races. I didn't do this once, and dirtwas packed under the race (which is a LOT harder than thespindle) and it bound the bearing really well. I was able to backit off, clean, remove galling with a stone, and then try again.

>> 3. Does anyone know the Timken part numbers so I could order thereplacements before disassembly or is it wiser to have the parts in yourhand when you go in?4. The book doesn't show a cone for this bearing-does it come as a unitor are there separate bearings and cones? <<

Yup, you need 4 Timken parts, 2 inner races, and 2 outer.

>> 5. I seem to have read somewhere that the lubrication of thesebearings needs to be improved. Anyone have knowledge of this? <<

I'm using SAE #10, with a drip feed wick. If the wick gets gummed upor lost, you will get too little, or too much, lube flow. What you wantis to fill the cup, and have it last several hours. The chip guards, ifin good shape, trap a puddle of oil at the bottom of the bearings, soeven when the cups run dry, there is still oil in the bearing. If thecups are badly gouged after several spindle pulls, you might do well tomake new ones, or try to buy them. They are supposed to seat pretty wellagainst the outer bearing bore to trap that puddle. Later Atlas manualsseem to now recommend SAE #20 oil, so I will have to switch grades. Thereare special machine spindle oils sold by the catalog machine tool supplyplaces.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:30:53 -0000From: john.vanbrocklin2x~xxunisys.comSubject: Re: Help! Atlas 6"

Hi..This is also my first post, but I have been lurking for awhile.

Actually you are lucky both the nut and the screw are worn. Irecently purchased the cross slide nut for the 6" and later had toorder the matching screw since the older size thread is no longermade and the new nut didn't fit the old screw. Anyway, the old latheis real tight now after replacing most wearables.

John

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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 16:46:34 -0400From: "Ebower" <ebowerx~xxlcsys.net>Subject: Re: Craftsman 6 in. Re-assembly Problems

> When I finished re-assembling my Craftsman/Atlas 6x18 lathe, I noticed> some interference between the compound and cross slides. When I set> the compound at 30 degrees, as is my practice on larger lathes, the> cross feed handle hits the compound. The two slides only interfere> with one another when the crossfeed is in its last two inches of> travel toward the operator, but that does effecively reduce the> diameter of the workpiece to 3.5 or 4 inches.> I didn't pay that much attention to this part of the lathe when it was> together; I never used it before rebuilding it. Is this interference> normal or have I put something back together incorrectly? Do you set> the compound at more than 30 degrees for normal turning? I guess> threading is limited to smaller diameters, too. Thanks, Dave

Dave, There are two possibilities that may be the problem. Whoever hadyour lathe before could have replaced the feed handle with a bigger one.The other possibility is that the spacer that should be between thecarriage and dial is either missing or has been shortened up.

My Atlas 6 x18 does not have your problem. My compound stays at 29degrees for threading and I have had no problem of interference with thehandles. The only time I have had problems is when I would set thecompound at a 5 or 10 degree angle and try to machine.

Earl

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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:43:39 -0600From: "Maxwell Sandford" <mtsx~xxlanl.gov>Subject: Re: Craftsman 6 in. Re-assembly Problems

My 101.21400 has this problem. The handle on the compound interfereswith the top of the cross-slide (not with it's handle) limiting thetravel of the compound when it is set at 29 degrees. All parts areoriginal and there does not appear to be any spacer missing.

The compound attaches to the cross-slide with set screws that tightenagainst spacers that lock into the circular groove that is turned intothe top of the cross-slide casting. The problem is that the compoundis low enough that its handle interferes with the top of the compound

thereby preventing the full compound feed range. There isn't anyinterference for threading because you can set the compound positionwithin its range of available motion. There is plenty of range forthread cutting. The problem appears when you are trying to turn usingthe compound, for example if you want to cut a short taper. If thecompound angle is significantly larger than 29, then the compound handledoesn't interfere. This looks like it is built into the design of these6" machines.

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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 17:00:44 -0500 (CDT)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Craftsman 6 in. Re-assembly Problems

Dave, I have a 6" Craftsman/Atlas lathe that I bought new. It is normalfor the Crossfeed Knob (ball end) to interfere with the Compound Bodywhen the Compound is set to the 29 degrees recommended to cut a 60degree V thread. However, it is only on the last two revolutions ofwithdrawal from the lathe center. That is only about 0.200", more or less.

This lathe will only swing around 3" over the Crossslide in any case. Ihave turned a 3/4" thick steel plate to a diameter of 4", no easy taskon a lathe this small! In fact, I can't remember how I did it! Around 50years ago, so forgive me for faded memories. It was to make a Steady Restthat was featured in a Popular Mechanic's magazine. (The rest worksgreat too!)

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Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:28:06 -0500From: Bill Aycock <baycockx~xxhiwaay.net>Subject: Re: Craftsman 6 in. Re-assembly Problems

Gentlemen, for what it's worth, I just checked my Atlas 618, and thecross feed will crank back all the way (limited by threads inside crossfeed) and the compound will rotate without interference. It is set to29 deg, usually, but will not hit the crank (or vice-versa) with thecross feed back, and at any angle.

It is assembled with the components shown on the parts list, as shown,because I had to replace the crank when I got the lathe. The crank hadbeen broken in some rough handling, ages ago.

Maybe the problem is only on some models, because it is not on mine.

BillBill Aycock --- Persimmon HillWoodville, Alabama, US 35776 (in the N.E. corner of the State)W4BSG -- Grid EM64vr w4bsgx~xxarrl.net

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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 19:39:02 -0000From: doogdoogx~xxhawaii.rr.com

Subject: Re: Gibs for late model 12 X 36

> In the process of rebuilding my Atlas 12 X 36 with Q/C I have> misplaced the gibs for apron, crossslide and the compound.> Clausing/atlas has replacements that are made of plastic. I prefer> metal. Does anyone spare metal gib strips for model 3983, 12" X 36".> Rod Reed Lafayette, LA

I made my own out of 1/8" steel stock. If you have a mill it will makethe job easier or a milling attachment for your lathe or last resortis the file.

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Date: Fri, 11 May 2001 20:14:41 -0700From: "John Johnson" <jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com>Subject: Re: Gibs for late model 12 X 36

Last year I replaced my plastic gibs and made brass ones for my 12x36 A/Clathe. I did this by using a friend's milling machine. They were not thathard to make and I've really noticed a big difference in performance withthe brass gibs over the plastic ones. I would suggest that you try to makea set from some 1/8" x 1/2" brass bar stock. You machine off the edge at a45-degree bevel and then make some flats along it where the set screws go.

John D.L. Johnsonjjohnsonx~xxLocoGear.com www.LocoGear.com

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Date: Sun, 13 May 2001 20:00:08 -0700From: "John Johnson" <jjohnsonx~xxlocogear.com>Subject: Re: Gibs for late model 12 X 36

> > You machine off the edge at a 45-degree bevel and then make some> > flats along it where the set screws go.> Shouldn't that be 30* or 60* (depending on point of view) as the> slides are 60* are they not?

Yes, 30-60 is correct. Sorry for any confusion.

John D.L. Johnsonwww.LocoGear.com

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Date: Tue, 15 May 2001 18:51:06 EDTFrom: LADDERBARx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Tumbler Gears On Atlas 12" Lathe[LOOSE NOISY GEARS, WITH WORN CENTRE HOLES]

MSC makes a bronze bushing kit (per lubed) that all different sizes.MSC industrial supply 1 -800-645-7270 or WWW.mscdirect.com. It is onpage 3619 of the Big Book. part #35375781 SAE-841 oil impregnated bronzebearing assortment. List price is $36.99 this is a 45 piece assortment.Hope it helps.

I replaced every bushing in my lathe with it. Anyone with an Atlasshould have this kit.

Mike

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 17:08:51 +0000From: Jon Elson <jmelsonx~xxartsci.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Drive pin slippage on Craftsman 12X24

STYSx~xxMINDSPRING.COM wrote:> I am having a re-occurring problem with my 12X24. I am currently> working on a large diameter (11.5") face plate that I made out of> scrap aluminum. I have all but completed it with the exception of> truing up the face. When I start to make a light cut (approximately> .002 to.005"), the drive pin disengages, and the face plate stops> rotating. Now, this has happened to me a number of times in the past,> but I stop the lathe, push the pin back in, and continue on my merry> way. It usually happens when I try to take a "heavy" cut which for me> is greater than >.010" depth. But tonight I can't go more that 1/4"> worth of travel across the face of the faceplate before it disengages> again. I'm afraid that either the drive pin hole in the spindle> pulley assembly is tapered or the drive pin in the bull gear is> tapered. I should also state that I am not using the backgears.> Any suggestions other then disassembly and inspection?

I suspect either the spring, ball, or both have been dropped out ofthe pin assembly. There are two detent grooves in the pin, and theball and spring are to hold the pin in those positions. It is alsopossible that the bull gear is loose or improperly positioned. Itis held in place by an angled set screw to the spindle. If it is freeto wobble, due to the setscrew being loose, it may act to work thedrive pin back from the engaged position.

Tapering of the hole and the pin are likely. My detents are prettystrong, however. I can barely pull the pin when I have a little oilon my hands, so the detent must be resisting to the tune of about 50 Lbs.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 25 May 2001 01:50:43 -0000From: STYSx~xxMINDSPRING.COMSubject: Re: Drive pin slippage on Craftsman 12X24

Jon, after I posted this question, I when back into my shop and finishedthe face plate in the fastest backgear. It worked fine, but the rpm'swere a little slow. After I was done cleaning up, I took a closer

looked the spindle assembly with a flashlight. I found that when Ipushed in the drive pin, and held the spindle pulley assembly frommoving, I could get about 5 degrees of movement between the bull gearand the spindle! I did find that the set screw on the bull gear hadbacked out, and the bull gear was loose on the spindle. I tighten it,and now the only play is between the drive pin and the bull gear /spindle pulley assembly, and is greatly reduced.

I'm pretty sure that the ball & pin are still in place, for there issome resistance when I pull or push on the drive pin. But its a lotless that 50lbs. I bet the combination of a weak spring and the loosebull gear caused my problem. I'll get a chance to turn this week end,and I'll see if the problem has gone away. If not, I guess I'll needto partially disassemble the spindle assembly, and see aboutreplacing that spring...

ThanksRick Stys Apex, NC Craftsman / Atlas 12X24

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 20:11:58 -0700From: Jerry Rude <gdrudex~xxpacbell.net>Subject: Re: Drive pin slippage on Craftsman 12X24

Rick: Hi, I'm new to the list, but just fixed the same problem on my 10inch model. What had happened is the large gear allen screw wouldn'thold the gear in place, slipping slightly. This and the fact the backgear pin was loose in its hole, having slipped out so many times. So Ireamed the pin hole, and made a new pin, about .015 larger out of a pieceof SS. Then, make sure the gear is tight up against the pulley and theallen screw tightened well. If it continues to slip in the future, I'llmake a clamp which will hold the gear in place, not allowing it to movelaterally.

Jerry Rude10F x 48 newly purchased but still awaiting parts to complete it.

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Date: Thu, 24 May 2001 23:36:13 -0400From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Drive pin slippage on Craftsman 12X24

The pin can be removed for inspection. Normally the spring ball assemblyprevents the pin from coming out as the pin has shoulders on either sideof the ball. To remove mine I carved a little wedge out of a craft stick,and inserted it next to the pulley end shoulder. The ball then rode upthe wedge and past the shoulder, releasing the pin.

Ron Thibault North Augusta, SC USABuilder Miinie #2 Captain R/C Combat Ship USS Arizonahttp://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2001 04:19:07 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: atlas lathe parting problem

brluckx~xxnbnet.nb.ca wrote:> I have a atlas 12" underdrive lathe and have just> purchased a new parting tool . I am new to using this lathe. I have> used a larger standard modern 12" for parting and had no trouble.> Are atlas lathe too light for parting cold rolled and mild steel ?

No, but if anything is loose, it won't work well! I had a rather sloppyAtlas 10", but when I tightened up all the gibs it worked much better.There are two steel plates under the carriage that prevent the carriagefrom lifting up from the bed. Try to lift your bed at the front and back.

Observe the oil film right at the edge of the carriage. It will detectmovement of .001" or so, even better than you can feel the slack. If thereis looseness there, you can remove these plates and remove a laminationfrom the shim to reduce the slack. I think the laminations are .004", soyou may want to put a sheet of kitchen aluminum foil or two back toget halfway in between.

Make sure to check at the tailstock end of the lathe, it will bind thereif you get it too tight. (The more worn area at the headstock end mayshow more slack at that point.)

> I have the lantern style toolpost. The lathe just wants to chatter> itself to peices. I have tried grinding a edge to make the chips role> but have had no luck . How much should a 3/4 horsepower underdrive 12"> lathe be able to cut ? Any suggestions would be appreciated.

It will cut plenty, but only if it's tight. If there is slop anywhere,it will show up worse in the parting-off operation than anywhere else.The infeed force is so high, it can lift the rear of the carriage.

But, also, check the compound for slack. You may have to tighten thegibs on the compound for parting-off.

The lantern toolpost is a horror. I replaced mine over 10 years ago witha Phase-II knockoff of the Aloris-style dovetail toolpost, and it madean enormous difference on a 10" Atlas. I've upgraded to a 12" Atlas,and I still use that toolpost, and highly recommend it.

Finally, don't forget the spindle and chuck. If you have a dial indicator,check the spindle for free play (both axial and radial). Apply a50 Lb force upward as close to the chuck or spindle nose as possible.If there is more than a few thousandths of free play, you need toinspect further. If this is a babbit bearing lathe, there are shimsunder the bearing caps that can be removed, but free play indicateswear, and when you pull shims the bearing will no longer be round.

If this is a Timken roller bearing lathe, then your bearings may be wornout, or the preload may need to be adjusted.

Finally, the chuck jaws need to grip a bar along the full length of thejaw. A common problem is known as "bellmouthing", where the outermostpart of the jaws are worn, so only the back of the jaw actually gripsthe work. If you can wiggle the bar in the jaws when the chuck is justvery lightly tightened on the work, that is an indication. There areseveral procedures for grinding the jaws on the lathe, so they arealigned with the lathe's axis. A Dremel tool, air grinder or otherspindle can be fixed to the toolpost to do this. It takes only a fewminutes and makes a huge difference in all tougher turning jobs.

Then, there is technique, but you probably know this. But, it iscounter-intuitive that you need to keep the feed up when it startsto chatter, although your instinct is to slow down. I still havesome trouble parting off aluminum pieces sometimes, but steel partsoff silently and almost effortlessly on my 12" Atlas. I had enormousproblems (all of the ones mentioned above, and then some) with myoriginal 10" Atlas, and corrected them over time, as I figuredout what was wrong with it.

Hope some of this helps!Jon

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From: johnt49x~xxh...Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 11:07 amSubject: Re: 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

> Hello to all (Ultimate newbie here), I need to remove the spindle, I> have read the Atlas's online bulletin on how to do this, and one part> that is not comprehensible:> "Place the piece of broomstick at the left end of spindle S and drive> in direction indicated by arrow until> key T emerges from gear R."> Fine. But how does one "drive" it? They warn about not "hammering with> a metal hammer" and this can't be done by hand. Any advise please? Alex

Alex, I recently replaced my spindle bearings. It's ok to use a metalhammer to hit the broomstick, just don't hit the spindle directly. Iused a piece of 2x2 & a ball peen hammer. I'd advise threading the collarback on the spindle flush with the spindle end after removing gear &spacer to protect the threads. Be sure you loosen set screw on collarthat locates spindle pulley first. It took several good "taps" to getspindle moving, this may damage bearings, but you have little choice.Probably a good idea to replace them any way while it's apart. Two newbearings & cups came to a grand total of $22.96. Don't even considerbuying these from Clausing. They want $45.80 ea! Any good bearingsupply should have, or be able to get them for you.

Timken P/N - 07079 Left bearing (1) - 07100 Right bearing (1) - 07196 bearing cups (2)

When you reasssemble be careful when thighening collar on spindle end.

If you tighten bearings too much you will have to "tap" spindle toloosen again as bearings are a press fit. You want just a slightamount of pre load on bearings.

This is also a good time to replace your belt as you will probablynever need to remove spindle again unless something breaks.

Good luck,John

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From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxn...>Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 1:38 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

What kills the bearings with a direct blow with a hammer is the veryhigh force that gets generated when the hammer strikes. "Dead Blow"hammers use a cushion so that the peak force (which can easily deformsteel) is lessened and spread over a longer time interval. The totalinertia transfer is usually about the same but it's spread over a longertime and thus, the deformation pressures aren't attained anywhere alongthe line. I might also note that when you do use a dead blow hammer,you insure that the slack is taken up in all of the moving parts or youwill just have the bearing slam against the far side and thus get thesame high deformation pressures develop. This problem is why youusually see things like the broomstick method used as you will naturallypush the stick down to the work and that takes up the slack so that youdon't get the sudden shock of the impact of the internal parts.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay

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From: HUNLEY31x~xxa...Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 4:18 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

Alex, I just removed mine (101.07403) and had a hard time with it. Aftertwo hours I applied a little heat on the bearing (NOT HOT), that didthe trick. I wasn't sure, thought I was doing something wrong, as it wasso hard to 'break loose' but it came with a lot of effort. I agree withwhat everybody else stated. If I can add anything, it would be to screwthe end collar back on before you start beating on the shaft. If for noother reason than to 'correct' any of the end threads when you remove thecollar that may be damaged when 'tapping on the shaft.' Of course youmust remove the collar to complete the removal, but I saw it as someinsurance I could correct the end damaged threads if needed. As it wasthe machine weathered the experience better than I. It didn't shed a dropof blood. LOL. You want to be real careful, don't do anything you're notsure of, just look at the replacement prices of the 'stuff' you'rebeating on.

Regards, Hank

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From: catboat15x~xxa...Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 8:35 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

In a message dated 7/25/01, cravdraax~xxy... writes:> Fine. But how does one "drive" it? They warn about not "hammering with> a metal hammer" and this can't be done by hand.

If you can't get hold of a lead, bronze, wood hammer go ahead with yourhousehold nail hammer, but put a chunk of wood that will take the sharpblow and distribute the force over the end you are driving.

John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.

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From: sleykinx~xxa...Date: Wed Jul 25, 2001 8:44 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

johnt49x~xxh... writes:> When you reasssemble be careful when thighening collar on spindle end.> If you tighten bearings too much you will have to "tap" spindle to> loosen again as bearings are a press fit. You want just a slight> amount of pre load on bearings.

One more point .. Make sure you put something soft (shotgun pellet, bitof brass or?) under the setscrew in the preload collar so the threadsdon't get munged.

Glenn Neff Medford, OR

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From: S1 <gmdagenax~xxa...>Date: Thu Jul 26, 2001 5:41 amSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] 618 101.21400 Spindle removal??

It seems this would works well also. Something that would help theprocess is stuffing some dry ice inside the spindle to shrink it some,while lightly heating the bearings. The bearings expand, while the thespindle shrinks. A friend of mine buried a piece of 6" solid round barin dry ice and its diameter shrunk .100".

-Gabe

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From: "Larry Bailey" <LBailey52x~xxh...>Date: Thu Aug 16, 2001 1:53 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Re: Rollie's Dad's Lathe Alignment Question

>sleykinx~xxa... wrote:> > In a message dated 08/16/2001,skip_evans writes:> > > I would adjust the tailstock to read zero. Right now you would> > > produce a slight taper.>From: Jon Elson>Then it is almost hopeless. Unless you have a bar that is both VERY>stiff, and very light, it is pretty hard to get it to stay straight.>A 1" steel bar hanging even one foot out of the chuck will droop a bit,>and deflect away when you touch it with the indicator. Using a level,>I can measure the bed twist right up against the headstock, and at the>rightmost end of the bed, however long the bed may be. that is a much>more accurate way of removing twist than trying to measure a bar in the>chuck. If you can come up with a 1 or 1.5" OD hollow roller that has>been centerless ground, that would make a much better test bar for>this purpose.

It's been a while since I read through this method. I tried it once andfound it rather cumbersome. IIRC the bar doesn't need to be perfectlystraight or without taper but does to be measured accurately. Itslocation has to be measured accurately as well. So a reasonably straight,smooth bar, a dial indicator and a micrometer are the things you need.I tend to agree with Jon. I put a level on mine, tweak the mountingbolts and turn a test bar. The first time I did this I couldn't see adifference on the mic six inches from the chuck. Now if I need torelevel I often don't even bother with a test bar.

Larry

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From: rweersingx~xxw...Date: Fri Aug 17, 2001 4:38 amSubject: Re: Serial Number Location

In atlas_craftsman, Robert McDonald wrote:> Thanks Bob. I guess mine is a 10F then, as I have the separate> apron, 3/4" lead screw, and power cross feed.> How did you determine what year yours were made? Rob

Hello Rob, on the old lathes, Atlas would Date the spindle bearings withthe day month and year. All bets are off if the bearings were replacedbut since my lathes had such old dates I assumed that they were theoriginal. I was surprised that my newer model "f" had an older date thanmy "D" model. I have since found out that Atlas made the "d" model until1941. The "D" model I inherited from my grandfather when I was a child.My grandfather got the lathe out of the trash behind a machine shop inKalamazoo Michigan about 1950 and I think he rebuilt it because many ofthe parts look new. I have a 1950 parts list and it is unbelieveablehow cheap things were back then.

I ramble on, good luckBob

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Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:46:46 -0400

From: "Ebower" <ebowerx~xxlcsys.net>Subject: Re: Re: I have plans for 6" New Style QC box..

There was one issue "Projects in Metal" August 1989. Should get October1989 issue due to some corrections/omissions in above issue. The guythat did the original plans "John Toscano" was the writer.

The second Magazine is "Modeltec" Six parts. George W. Yadon was thewriter. July, August, September, October, November, and December 1991.This is a copy of John's but made from plate. Total plans in the article.

The third Magazine is also "Projects in Metal" December 1992Glenn A. Pettit. This is a different version of the gear box.Total plans in the article.

Earl

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 11:12:32 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Taper Turning

Actually, it isn't that the bed needs to be level but rather that it's nottwisted. A twisted bed will produce a taper but a bed that is tilted at 45deg. and not twisted will not produce that taper. Making the bed level isthe simplest way tho of making an attempt at insuring that the bed isn'ttwisted. I'd check your calculations and settings on the lathe to insurethat the taper is correct. I'd also try doing a 0deg. taper (a cylinder)as a reference guidepoint.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:18:23 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Taper Turning

>> Thanks for the reply. I have the Starrett level you describe. I tookthe lathe off of the stand and leveled the stand and then put the latheback on and leveled it. It still is 3 degrees off. Any other suggestionswould be appreciated. EA <<

No, leveling the stand is meaningless. You need to level the BED waysof the lathe, to get both ends parallel. I use a master precision levelwhich brings them to a couple of arc seconds of level. these levels willEASILY detect a hair under one end!

But, I doubt that this is your problem. To get a 3 degree error, you'dneed a visible twist in the bed. What you need to do is get a largepiece of material, and try to face it flat in the chuck, using the

compound to move the tool. When you get it so it is flat, and not aconvex or concave cone, then, you can scribe the 90 degree mark. Usingthe compound to cut a cylinder of constant diameter, you can check themark and make sure it lines up with the zero on the cross slide. If theydon't match, then you have some kind of foul up with the markings. Ifthey line up, all other marks should line up, too.

For precise tapers, you need to have a master of known correct taper,and fit the master into/onto the part you are making, using bluing dyeto check for the accuracy of the fit. When the bluing is transferred forthe full length of the taper, then you know that your part correctlyduplicates the taper of the master.

One thing to beware of on old lathes is that the compound can be wornunevenly, causing it to travel in a curved path. You can't cut anytaper with accuracy when the compound is in that kind of shape!

Jon

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 20:47:35 -0000From: doogdoogx~xxhawaii.rr.comSubject: Re: Taper Turning

In atlas_craftsman, ejohna wrote:> If I set the rest for a 30 degree taper I end up with a 33 degree. I> find that if I set the rest to 0 degrees it is not square with the> chuck. I have to set it a 3 degrees to get it square. Is there an> adjustment to correct this or should I rescibe the line on the rest?

Aloha, after doing what all of the other replies suggest I would ifpossible turn it using the tailstock center to keep it from deflectingand use a sharp bit. Check to see if your gibs are snug and notsloppy. Some of the Atlas, Craftsman use a nylon type of gib and aftera while it cracks and creates a loose spot so be sure to check whattype of gib you have. I doubt that the markings on the cross slide andcompound could be 3 deg's off but it is possible. Hope this helps.

Mahalo,Howard

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:31:43 -0700From: Frank Evan Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Taper issue

Your problem could be as simple as the problem on my 10F. Totally worn outeverything! Even after I replaced both precision nuts in the compound (onefor each screw) I can still move the bit back and forth with my hand, butnot an eight of an inch, like before. (No exaggeration there, really thatmuch.) It appears I need to replace all three screws on my lathe too.

Most of you would flat-out not believe how worn my lathe is. Thescrewforms are no longer Acme, or even a typical 60 degree thread form,but a sort of truncated 60 degree thread form. The nuts that engagedthe screws were only slightly different than cylinders.

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Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 21:06:20 -0400From: "EA" <ejohnax~xxstrato.net>Subject: Re: Taper Turning

Thanks for the reply.If I install the face plate and take the tool postoff, set the rest at 0 degrees and use a good square from the slot forthe tool post to the face plate should that be square? This is a newlathe, less that 25 hours. After I leveled the stand then I did levelthe bed with a Starrett precision level. Both ways are level from thehead to the tail and also from one way to the other at both the head& tail.

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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:21:32 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Taper Turning

>Thanks for the reply.If I install the face plate and take the tool>post off, set the rest at 0 degrees and use a good square from the>slot for the tool post to the face plate should that be square? EA

You need to turn the faceplate to make sure it is truly flat and squareto the spindle axis. (Nothing can be trusted until you've checked it!) Byturn, I mean using a dial indicator, as we already know there is a problemin the lathe. If the faceplate is running pretty true, then you shouldverify that the cross slide travels parallel to the faceplate. If thecross slide IS parallel, then you can check the degree marks for thecompound, and see if they need adjusting. If the cross slide is not atright angles to the spindle axis, then don't even look at the degreemarks, as the problem is below them.

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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 06:14:42 -0000From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.netSubject: Re: Taper Turning

I would check the gibs and if they are Ok I would rescribe the line.I have had to do this with a number of machines and accessories.They probably scribed the line at the factory before the rest wasmounted on the machine.

Good luckBob 618 Atlas lathe 10X36 F Atlas lathe(1939)10X42 D Atlas lathe (1940) U.S. Burk Millrite milling machine (1968)

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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 04:07:03 -0400From: "Matthew King" <mattkingx~xxknology.net>Subject: Re: Best collet choice? + lathe work question

[SNIP: COLLET PORTION IS IN "Atlas Collets" FILE]

A question for you lathe veterans - I have a Harrison 12x40 lathe that Icannot get a quality finish with, regardless of carbide insert used, HSStoolbit, cemented carbide, rusty nail, etc. (just kidding about the nail!)

I've leveled the bed with a Starret machinist's level(80-90 seconds or.005" per foot - not quite a "master precision level (10 second or .0005"per foot) but not $500 either!) I've got an Aloris CXA toolpost. I'vemeticulously followed the recommended speed and feed charts for allmaterials cut. The only acceptable finish I've been able to get is insome Nylon, but you can still see "waves". Stainless steel (I know it'scontrary but this is AWFUL) is horrendous. It looks "ripped." Carbonsteel of various hardness is a bit better, but certainly not acceptable,even at the slowest possible feed rates. Aluminum is relatively smoothbut still wavy. I don't believe there's any taper being introduced, justan AWFUL finish. I've tried very large nose radius inserts, very narrowradius inserts, 1/2" wide square cemented toolbits, carefully ground (byan ex-Pratt & Whitney machinist friend) HSS toolbits.

We're at a complete loss here. The machine was built in 66 with a period3phase 3HP dual speed motor that appears quite smooth running. The gear-case is run by dual V-belts that are properly tensioned. All of thevisible gears appear in quite good shape and are properly lubed. Thegearcase itself is a submerged bath (Mobil Heavy Vactra) system properlyfilled. The spindle bearing "play" is <.002" from one extreme to theother (using the pipe in chuck, indicator on chuck, lift and shovemethod). Material can be centered within .0005-.001" in the Pratt threejaw chuck. A dial indicator traversed across a 1 foot piece of materialshows ZERO runout from chuck towards tailstock. A slightly notchy livecenter has been being used and is being replaced just in case, but can'tpossibly impart this level of roughness.

It's just as bad when turning without the tailstock in place.HELP! PLEASE! Any ideas?

Thanks,Matt King Columbus, GA no Atlas(yet), but a Harrison!

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:04:25 -0000From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.netSubject: Re: Best collet choice? + lathe [HARRISON] work question

Hello Matt, I had the same problem with a 6" Atlas lathe. I replacedthe crossfeed nut and snugged up all the gibs which helped, but I wasstill getting a rough finish. About a month later I took the spindleof to replace the belt and noticed the preload on the bearings seemed

too loose. Putting the spindle back together with the proper preloadon the bearings cured all of the rough finish problems.

Hope that helps since you seem to have done everything else.

Good luckBob

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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:35:58 EDTFrom: CaptonZapx~xxaol.comSubject: The Color Photo Lathe

I have a unique lathe that has me intrigued. It is an Atlas head stockand bed, with two carriages with cross slides, no compounds, a leadscrew that has a blank section in the center of it, and a rudimentaryset of gears to drive the lead screw.

It was used for cutting rotogravure plates for printing. The bed islike new, and the cross slides do not show any wear. I assume that onceyou set the depth of cut, the only motion was along the bed, with thelead screw moving both carriages in unison, the photo pick up lookingat the object photo, and the vibrating head cutter doing the engraving.It didn't get much use, judging by the absence of wear marks on the bed.Needless to say, the thing looks like a brand new lathe to me, justshort some critical parts.

Has anyone seen one like it? And does anybody know where I could findparts for it to turn it into a proper lathe. The most critical partwould be a QC gear box and lead screw. A tail stock would be nice,although I have a tail stock off of a Grizzley that could be made to work.

Thanks for any help,Jerry Roy

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Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:33:04 -0500From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." <mkcentx~xxswbell.net>Subject: Re: The Color Photo Lathe

Jerry, I bought one just like it to upgrade my 101.28990. It is theidentical lathe except for the oddessy's you mention. It perfect forupgrading or renewing I should say, the 101.28990 or 28991 or any latemodel Craftsman/Atlas lathe. I took the quick change and drive gears,lead screw and tail stock, motor and pulleys off my lathe and put themon the photo lathe. I later found a like new lead screw and replacedthe well worn one on my lathe (which I still have). My lathe is now ingreat shape.

Skip Campbell

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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:24:06 -0000

From: nathanandannax~xxcs.comSubject: Half Nuts

First off, thanks to all who responded to my post on varying threadpitch. I was trying another thread today when I noticed that the halfnuts open and close slightly as the carriage oves along. I pulled thecarriage off and the half nuts are loose in the bracket that theyslide in. When I say loose, I mean at least .030 side to side and upand down. They do not appear to be worn much so I am not sure if thisis normal or if I am missing a shim or something. The lathe was a basketcase when I got it so it could be missing something. It seems plausiblethat this could be why I am having inconsistencies with my threads.

Thanks again for all the help,Nathan

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Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:06:07 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Half Nuts

Again, are you sure the leadscrew is straight? also:The pins that close the halfnuts may be loose in the backsides of the nuts,The pins may be worn or wrong size ("an earlier user's "fix"?)the halfnut carrier block may be worn, letting halfnuts tilt etcthe rotating plate that the pins ride in may be worn,The rotating plate may be loose on the engagement lever shaftthe engagement lever may be not moving far enough (jammed, blocked)

The halfnuts may be worn, but so evenly that you don't see it. You mayhave to try them on the screw separately after disassembly.Also: try closing them with your fingers after the engagement lever hasmoved as far as it can, then try to move the carriage back and forth.Is it still loose? do they act like they want to spring apart?

I have a logan that had very worn halfnuts, and a very loose carrier. Ihad 1/8 inch total movement, but I could cut a 32 pitch thread OK, aslong as I made sure that the carriage was against the screw, by holdingit back after engaging the nuts. That took up the backlash. Try it???

That's all that spewed forth from the old brain right now.Jerry

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:13:29 -0000From: sevenish1x~xxyahoo.comSubject: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

I am new to this group but have many years of machine experience so Iam puzzled by a problem I have with my Atlas lathe. I have a primo12 X 36 that I have extensively refurbished. New belts,headstockbearings, cleaned, oiled, tightened and painted. Looks like new andcuts like crap. I simply cannot get a decent cut no matter whatspeed, feed, or depth of cut. I have put a dial indicator everywhere

and measured for spindle deflection, chuck deflection,tooldeflection, barometric pressure and phase of the moon and just Icannot figure out why it cuts so lame. I am using an Aloris type toolholder and have tried both small radius carbide tools and HSS to noavail. The machine always produces a chattered finish except on thevery lightest of cuts. Even with the gibs tightened to the max itchatters. Do you folks have any suggestions for what to try? I haveoperated many lathes over the years but this one has me stumped. I knowother people seem to like this machine but at the moment I can't figureout why.

Randy Howard

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 22:06:22 -0000From: doogdoogx~xxhawaii.rr.comSubject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

Aloha, I would check the following:1) If you have the horizontal counter shaft type, check to see if the bolt between the horizontal counter shaft and lathe is adj. properly.2) Is your lathe bolted down or is it just sitting on the bench. I would bolt it to the bench and bolt the bench to the floor.3) Do you have the metal gibs or the nylon one. If nylon, I would remove the and check to see if it is cracked or broken.4) Try moving the carriage by hand while turning a round stock and see if the finish is the same or better. If it is better then that will mostly rule out the compound and carriage.5) Is your lead screw ok?6) Check your half-nuts for damage and excessive wear and also the assembly that it attaches to.7) Check your belt to see that it is not too hard. Sometimes when the lathe is sitting a long time with tension on the belt it takes the form of the pulley and it could cause a little vibration. Hint, release the tension lever when lathe is not in use.

Hope this helps, and with the other suggestions that were posted youshould find the problem cause.

Mahalo,Howard

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:25:53 -0500From: "Koepke, Kevin" <kkoepkex~xxspacehab.com>Subject: RE: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

36 inch is a long bed for the Atlas bed design. Some, including methink it's too long. I have a 618, and have just recently purchaseda 10-F x 24. I have some problems with chatter, but with limitations,I am quite pleased with them. Howard's #2 is most likely to be theproblem. The more mass it's bolted to, the better. How about aconcrete foundation?

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Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 20:39:48 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

Some 110V motors have a devilish vibration which a light lathe (or aheavier one) can transmit to the cutting edge. tends not to change muchwith turning speed. Might not be your problem if light cuts work OK,but worth a try.

Also, there's lots of gibs and other things as well. As you know, ifthe compound is somehow loose on its little seat, problems occur. Easyto overlook when thinking of gibs. Might be a chip in there?

Jerry

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 04:12:05 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

sevenish1x~xxyahoo.com wrote:> I am new to this group but have many years of machine experience so I> am puzzled by a problem I have with my Atlas lathe. I have a primo> 12 X 36 that I have extensively refurbished. New belts,headstock> bearings, cleaned, oiled, tightened and painted. Looks like new and> cuts like crap. I simply cannot get a decent cut no matter what> speed, feed, or depth of cut. I have put a dial indicator everywhere> and measured for spindle deflection, chuck deflection,tool> deflection, barometric pressure and phase of the moon and just I> cannot figure out why it cuts so lame. I am using an Aloris type tool> holder and have tried both small radius carbide tools and HSS to no> avail. The machine always produces a chattered finish except on the> very lightest of cuts. Even with the gibs tightened to the max it> chatters. Do you folks have any suggestions for what to try? I have> operated many lathes over the years but this one has me stumped.> I know other people seem to like this machine but at the moment I> can't figure out why.

Well, I did have chatter problems with my 10" when I got it, but it wasa wreck.

I now have a 12", and although I can MAKE it chatter, it rarely does,and takes pretty decent cuts. There is something WRONG with yourmachine. Don't think it is just because all Atlas machines are junk, orsomething like that. It CAN be cured, and will do a good job after theproblem is detected.

I assume this is a Timken bearing machine. The one thing you CAN'Tdo with abandon on lighter machines is take cuts with a WIDE cuttingtool (ie. producing a wide chip). That seems to excite the flex in themachine more than anything. I think this is due to flex in the carriage/compount mounting, which is pretty much the weak link in the Atlas.

The Aloris-type toolholder was a great improvement on my 10"

Atlas. If you had a lantern-style toolpost, that would have been thefirst change I would have suggested, but you've already done it.

What material are you trying to cut? Some totally unknown scrapfrom around the shop? That can be the problem. Try some mildsteel or aluminum alloy first. Keep the speed high (120 FPM forsteel, 500 FPM for aluminum is a good place to start) and the infeedpressure moderate. Make sure the cutting tool is level with the centerof the spindle. Make sure the flank of the tool is not rubbing on thework. This can happen if not enough front or side relief has beenput on the cutter. Don't try to cut too far from the chuck withoutsupporting the work with a tailstock center.

One other problem that I had was 'bellmouthing' of the chuck jaws.When short pieces are gripped in the jaws a lot, the tips of the jawssuffer more.

wear, and the jaws will only grip long pieces in the back of the chuck.With the chuck slightly snugged up, see if you can wiggle a rod in thechuck. If so, the jaw tips are not gripping the work. This will make easywork very difficult and frustrating. The fix is to use whatever grindingequipment you can come up with to get a small grinding wheel inside thechuck. You need a wheel that will fit inside the hole in the chuck, soyou can grind the jaws all the way back. What you do is install theDremel, air die grinder, toolpost grinder, electric drill or whateveryou've got to the toolpost, at approximately the center height of thespindle. Use chewing gum, rubber bands, putty, or whatever to pull thechuck jaws outward, so they ride the same side of the scroll as when theyare gripping a bar.

Adjust the jaws so they are somewhat smaller than the center hole. Setthe chuck turning very slowly, with the feed screw running on a finefeed setting. Advance the grinding wheel into the chuck with thecarriage carefully, and then bring the grinder out with the crossfeeduntil the wheel just touches the jaws. Engage the power feed, and letthe grinder slowly work inward. If the bellmouthing is severe, you mayhave to start at the back (where there's more metal) and work outwards.

I actually do this with the chuck stopped, and make the preliminaryroughing passes manually, until the jaws are pretty much trued up, thenfinish with one power-fed pass.This saves time, as the wheel hardly evertouches the jaws when the chuck is turning - you're mostly cutting air.You'd be amazed at what a difference a set of trued-up jaws will make ona worn lathe chuck.

It is a good idea to cover the ways with aluminum foil, rags, papertowels or whatever, to keep the grinding grit out of the carriage.

A couple places to look on the Atlas lathe for looseness are the swiveljoint where the compound sits on the cross slide, and the gibs hidden onthe underside of the carriage. These really shouldn't be a problem fornormal cutting, but can cause major crashes when using cutoff tools orheavy threading in steel. You can check them by trying to lift straightup on the front and rear of the carriage.It should be constrained towithin .001" or so.

One last possibility (you say you've already checked) is looseness ofthe chuck mounting at the spindle thread. A poorly-cut thread could beloose enough to allow the chuck to wobble under cutting forces. One wayto check is to loosen the chuck from the spindle about 1/4 turn, and tryto rock it on the thread. A little looseness is normal, but if it reallyrocks a lot, then the thread may be too loose. it might only allow thechuck to shift under cutting loads, and so a manual test with a dialindicator might not show the problem. The test I use is to put a onefoot bar (1 " or more diameter) in the chuck, and put a dial indicatoron the back of the chuck body. Lift up with about 50 lbs force at theend of the bar. The chuck body should not rise up by more than .001".Now, you have to take some care in how you mount the dial indicator,or you will measure bed flex rather than spindle stiffness with this.So, mounting the dial indicator on the compound would be misleading.You want to mount it to the headstock casting if possible, otherwise tothe bed as close to the headstock as possible.

There is a fairly elaborate bearing preload scheme, which requiresrunning the lathe at high speed for 8 hours to heat the spindle, andthen the bearing preload is set. I do it by observing the abovementioned measurement and increasing preload in small incrementsuntil the spindle is well constrained. That seems to work fine.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:04:10 -0000From: gppainex~xxtir.comSubject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

John provided a lot of good information, and it is likely thatchecking the chuck to spindle play will pick up these conditions, butI'd like to point to a couple more areas I've seen cause chattertrouble in a friend's 12 x 36. One was the bolts holding theheadstock to the bed were not tight and would allow the headstock tomove under load. The other was loose screws that hold the chucktogether that let the front half of the chuck move with respect tothe backplate. Can't say how all that got loose, but snugging thingsup made a major improvement in quality of cut.

Good luck,Gary

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:58:23 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

> I'd like to point to a couple more areas I've seen cause chatter> trouble in a friend's 12 x 36. One was the bolts holding the> headstock to the bed were not tight and would allow the headstock to> move under load. The other was loose screws that hold the chuck> together that let the front half of the chuck move with respect to the> backplate. Can't say how all that got loose, but snugging things up

> made a major improvement in quality of cut.

Either of these two conditions can also be caused by little bits of grit,paint flakes, etc. that get between finely machined surfaces that needto fit precisely.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:36:25From: "robert B" <tugboatbobx~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

I'm by far not the expert here, but I've had problems with chatter to.Mostly when turning between centers, with the chatter marks on theheadstock end. All I could take were very light cuts.

Problem was, a belt was slipping.

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Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 10:34:10 -0700From: Frank Evan Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

Having replaced lots of parts on my 10F, I still get chatter.On my lathe, one of the culprits is the compound screw mount. Not thenut, and not the threaded part of the compound screw, but the partnearest the handle. If the mount is worn, the top-most part of thecompound can move even if there is zero backlash on the screw.

Solution? New compound screw assembly.

Has anybody ever tried adding mass to the bed? It seems to me onecould disassemble the lathe, turn it upside down and fill the undersidewith a mix of castable urethane and lead shot. First clean everything,then lay in a piece of 1/2" styrofoam. Then mix up the lead/urethanemix and fill the inverted bed right up. When the mix is set, flip itback over and remove the styrofoam with a gasoline rinse. The gapbetween the top of the filler and bottom of the bed should be enough tolet the tailstock operate correctly. This mix would kill chatter andwould probably weigh 100 lbs.

[NOTE: BAGS OF SAND STRATEGICALLY PLACED ON THE LATHE STAND WILL DOWONDERS -- CHEAPLY.]

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Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:47:23 -0700From: "GuyW" <guyiiix~xxhome.com>Subject: Re: Re: ...chatter? LONG

Hi group...since I've been collecting info on chatter (as result of myinterest in building the Gingery lathe, among other reasons), so I'llpost it here

SOME IDEAS ON SOURCES OF AND SOLUTIONS TO, LATHE CHATTER

The following concepts (which I ripped off the Chaski board) don't affectthe Gingery patterns and castings, but your ultimate assembly of andhappiness with the lathe.

Basic ideas on preventing chatter are apparently to create rotating"smoothness" in the basic lathe, and never to allow vibration orroughness to develop (duh, Guy!).

I see this affecting our pulleys (straight & concentric enuff?), belts(some real junk out there) (V, round, flat or ??) and how cheap / loosethe motor is.the idea of an intervening power shaft, clutch, andflywheel to isolate power surges seems very good, however, I leantoward a smaller type of lineshaft as compared to a huge old overheadsystem - perhaps a scaled-up watchmakers-lathe-type of lineshaft.

-Guy-

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Hi, I am new to the world of metal working and I could use some advice.I had a 1922 Dalton Six metal lathe follow me home. It has been instorage for the last 25-30 years and it appears to be in good conditionand well equipped with tooling. It needs a good cleaning, andlubrication as well as having the flat leather drive belt replaced.What types of oil should I use on this machine, and where should I useit? How do I go about replacing the leather drive belt, and how or wheredo I get a replacement? Are there any good books on machine toolrestoration, and repair? Where might I find any manuals or informationon this lathe? Any and all help greatly appreciated.Thanks, Greg Fosmark Duvall, WA

ANSWER 1:

hi, greg,the dalton is a really nice little machine, and will do good work onceyou have it dialed in. there's a "secret"...for getting good work from lightmachines....not really very secret, tho, cos the war production board putout a pamphlet about this technique back, during the war when every machinein the country was expected to work three shifts, 24hrs a day.this "secret" is in the mounting......make up forms, and pour a heavycement base for the lathe, somewhat like an elongated truncated pyramid,with a clearance area for the operator's feet. arrange a three pointmounting for the lathe, and bolt the lathe down firmly with cement anchorbolts......the sheer mass/weight of the cement base adds rigidity and dampsout vibration.....after stripping the forms away, when the concrete hasfully cured...pry the concrete base up from the floor, just enough to fitthree dense rubber pads under it....three point mounting again. the

magnitude of difference this makes with a light lathe in the southbend/logan class has to be seen to be appreciated.mount the motor and countershaft either above or behind the lathe, onwall uprights or ceiling joists....making a small lathe "self-contained" maylook pretty, but is a bad idea, cause any little bit of vibration orresonances in the motor or c'shaft will be transmitted to the lathebed....and the idea of the heavy base is to isolate the lathe from externalinfluences, as well as to enhance rigidity. if you can find a light c'shaftclutch assembly, bush it nicely, make a hardwood sleeve to increase thediameter of the pulley face of the clutch, and use a small pulley on motorfor single reduction.....bring the lever for the clutch down to a convenientpoint over the lathe. the difference in convenience in having the motor runconstant speed whilst you start/stop the spindle with a clutch, as comparedto having to start/stop the rotating mass of the motor, may well be only aminor convenience, but its well worth doing.belting is straightforward.....since you're out in duvall, you'll havea seattle phone book.....look in the yellow pages under "belting" or "powertransmission".....best is to learn to "skive", that is, form tapered ends,and glue up leather belts....all belts stretch, and will need to beshortened from time to time.....or...have the supplier cut you a roll of asuitable width of light "oil-proof" cotton/rubber belting, get a "clippervise lacer" (i've seen those come up cheaply on ebay) and run metal lacedbelts......oil is straightforward....just get a gallon of any good make of spindleoil.....i prefer "vactra" myself.getting the lathe set up....cleaning, oiling, adjusting bearings ifneeds be, deburring/flaking/adjusting gibs, etc., is really easy on a smallmachine like the dalton.....its been too many years since i've even seen adalton for me to remember anything about them.....i think i remember then ashaving bronze on spindle, and split caps....unless the spindle has been rundry, your chances are very good you'll not have to do much work on thespindle and its bearings....well, there's a start....good luck....... : )cheerscarla

ANSWER 2:

Carla's post was right on the money, as usual. I'll share a little ofmy experiences with you, as well.

Years ago I knew a fellow in his 80's who had both an impressivecollection of old engines and a reputation as a first class machinist. Heand I became pretty close friends and he became a sort of mentor to me. WhenI began putting together my own shop, he helped me set up all the machineryand gave me the line shafting.Now, today a lot of guys will scoff at a bunch of pulleys and shaftinglurking over your head but believe me, I wouldn't have it any other way. Myfirst lathe was a sebastian and it had an adapter on it to support the conepulley and the motor. It worked but I couldn't get a nice finish. Bill toldme to get the shaft hung from the ceiling and bolt the motor to the floorand try it. The difference was amazing. Most of the motors we have availableto us are not balanced nearly as well as we think and, if it is fixed rigidto the lathe, the vibration carries through to the machine and makes itselfknown to you as a fine chatter. I have run machinery with the motor boltedto the wall, and to the rafters, and both of those locations were noisy, thehum of the motor is a 60 cycle vibration and the building simply begins toresonate at that frequency. Most annoying. The concrete floor does awonderful job of dampening the vibrations.Hang your countershaft and your lineshaft, you will belt your motor tothe lineshaft and run a straight belt and a twisted belt to the countershaftclutch pulleys. Drive the lineshaft at 250 rpm (pretty much a standard forsmall lineshafts). If you have an induction repulsion motor, they are thebest, they have high starting torque and start smoother than capacitormotors. Very few machine tools had capacitor start motors on them, theystart with a jerk and tend to vibrate more. If you can get single plyleather belting, use it over canvas/rubber. The oil that invariably gets onthe belts will turn the canvas/rubber belting into a gooey mess in 10 years.A single ply belt, about 3/32 thick and 1/4 narrower than your pulleys willtransmit all the power you need. If the belt is too thick, it takes moretension to make it drive and is hard on the bearings all the way around. Itis the friction of the belt against the pulley that drives, so a supple beltcan conform to the pulley and do the work without pulling it real tight. Ilace all my belts with rawhide shoelaces. This is easy to learn if you buythe Robert Smith books "Advanced Machine Work" and "Elements of Machine

Work" from Lindsay. Metal laces slip and wear the pulleys. Rawhide lacedbelts can be lumpy if not done right and this too can set up a vibration.Cemented belts are wonderful but they are a pain to shorten when theystretch. It is advisable to slack the belts, if possible, when the machineis going to be idle for a period of time to limit the amount they stretch.I also have a 10" Logan and a 9" southbend and I have run both of them froma lineshaft for several years with good results. I wish I could run myB'port from it as well. The darn v-belt drive is a source of irritation, anew belt will run smooth for a few months and then get lumpy and start tovibrate. Maybe this is why Southbend stayed with flat belts on their lathesuntil relatively recently.Good luck with your machine, and if it seems like a lot of work to setup the drive arrangement, it is but you get out of it what you put in.

Interesting post #1 I ripped off the Chaski board (I steal all my bestideas!) for application to Gingery machines:

"What I did notice was that the Taig has an extrusion body filled with whatlooks like cement. On top, is a dovetail steel bed much like that ofhardinge. Martin of Germany builds 30,000 dollar table saws with a cementfilled steel sandwich structure. This structure absorbs 6 times as muchvibration as pure cast iron and cast iron absorbs 10 times as much as rolledsteel and aluminum. So I know the Taig will excel here." Posted by emchd onDecember 17, 00 at 20:34:42

Interesting post #2Posted by Forrest Addy on December 27, 00 at 05:15:45:

This is an edited version of my postings to Jack Erskine several screensdown that some of you may find helpful.Jack wrote of a finish problem similar to chatter that he had that he couldnot solve despite Herculean trouble shooting and remedies where hepractically rebuilt his headstock all to no avail.

***********

Those of you who have bought small Asian built lathes equipped with singlephase motors or if you converted a three phase machine to single phase byreplacing the motor with a single phase unit, you may have encountered afinish problem. If the feed marks are closely examined they seem to resemblethe grooves in an old fashioned record, that is they may have varying depth

or an irregular appearance much like chatter. Extreme cases may look likehell.It's sometime difficult to distinguish this problem from another -- toolchatter. If the finish problems cannot be eliminated by the usual chatterremdedies, you might be coping with vibration "phonographing" the finish.The problem may be caused by a torsional vibration in the single phasemotor, sometimes called "cogging." The armature of a motor is tightlygripped by the magnetic fields that cause it to rotate. A single phase motoracts something like a single cylinder engine where the power pulses may beseveral times the average torque of the full revolution. This pulse istransmitted by the belt to the spindle and the opposing torque transmittedby the motor stator to the machine. The consequent vibrations may meet wherethe tool contacts the work, recording itself on the finish like on aphonograph record.Here's a trouble shooting method: Slack the belts so they will barely drivethe lathe while it's in a light cut. If possible, isolate the motor byslacking off the mounting bolts and slipping hose washers between the motorbase and the mount and between the bolt head and whatever it bears against.Tighten the bolts just enough to hold the motor in position. The object isto inject as much compliance and damping as possible in what is usually afairly rigid drive. If things wobble around a little it's OK. That's ourplan. Take a couple of trial cuts and see if there's a significantimprovement in the finish quality. This suggestion is intended to supportdiagnosis not a fix.If the pattern disappeared when the machine was practically de-coupled fromthe motor, that indicates the problem is definitely motor, not belts or toolchatter.The only solutions are to either to de-couple the motor via rubber motormounts or procure a new motor smoother in operating characteristics. Often,there is something about in a lathe/bench assembly that propagates motorvibration. You might try placing sandbags here and there on your lathe benchor motor mount. Inert weight like sand or pea gravel blots vibration to anamazing degree. If sandbags cure the problem, chances are the bench orwhatever need stiffening or reinforcement at those points.If your checkbook can stand it, a new motor might be the best solutionbecause you can upgrade in power at the same time -- that is if yourelectrical system can stand the extra load.The best solution is naturally expensive: either a DC motor and solid state

drive or a 3 phase motor preferably with a solid state drive if not a rotaryconverter.I also suggest a softer acting V-belt known as "Link Belt." This is a V-beltcomprised of interlocked rubber/fabric links. Links can be added or removedto secure the desired length. Their principal advantage is their forgivingnature and vibration mitigation. Another big advantage is you won't have todismantle your spindle to replace the V-belt, just cut the old belt off andlink together the new belt.Needless to say, the smoother the drive the better. when I bought my lathenew in 1971, it came direct driven by a 3 phase motor but I replaced themotor with a 5 HP single phase to suit my power. I had the same perplexing"phonographing" problem. I solved it after a fashion by relocating the motorfrom the machine to the floor nearby using a V-belt drive. I got goodproductivity and good finishes but naturally it wasn't as smooth as aMonarch 1760, one of the last and best engine lathes built in the UScosting$75,000.A few years ago, I upgraded my lathe motor to 10 HP 3 Phase with a variablefrequency drive. The motor happened to be precision balanced but I don'tthink that was a factor in performance improvement. It made an incredibledifference not to have the 60 Hz torsional impulse or cogging. Where I usedto see faint ripples in a cold drink set on the headstock, the machine nowruns dead smooth. Where the gear noise used to be annoying, it's now asmooth musical whir.If anything, I now get better finishes with my machine than on the Monarch,thanks to a smooth drive free from torque impulse and vibration.A cautionary note. A 3 phase motor running on a static converter stilldevelops significant torsional vibration and 2/3 rated HP. It will runsmoother on a rotary converter and develop full HP. Therefore I suggest ifyou wish to change out single phase motors you obtain two three phasemotors. One to run your lathe and another the next nominal HP larger fromwhich to build a phase converter. I'd really like to suggest a variablespeed drive but that might be too expensive for most people.I'm sure your own creativity will solve your vibration problem. I suggestusing found materials where possible. Perhaps a small automotive enginemount or suspension component.Here in blubbery USA there's a large traffic in exercise machines.Naturally, they are seldom used and may be bought cheap at yard sales. They

have smooth running 1 HP DC motors with a cheap variable speed drive thatmight be suited if your lathe is used exclusively for light work or

Interesting post #3Posted by Joe Fangohr on January 25, 01 at 21:30:07:

On another subject, I read often of different methods to reduce vibration inmachine tools. I have a bench mill, and it vibrated something awful. Thefirst thing I did was check the motor shaft for runout. Mine was readingabout .004 tir. I pulled the offending thing out, put it in my arbor pressand tweaked it straight, or actually got it running about .001 tir. Thishelped some but it still had what seemed like way too much vibration.Another thing I noticed that was causing the vibration was the v-belts. Theywould just flop all over the place when the mill was running. Some of thiswas probably caused by the pulleys being poorly made, but most I think bythe v-belts wedging themselves in their grooves and then getting pulled outof them each revolution. So I chucked the whole lot, v-belts and pulleys,and made me some poly-v step pulleys out of cast iron. If you are notfamiliar with these they are the flat belts commonly used on cars these daysthat look like flat belts but have a number of tiny v grooves. Thedifference is unbelievable in how much smoother my bench mill runs now, andquieter too. I wouldn't say that it now cuts like a turret mill or anythinglike that but it sure doesn't vibrate so much. I also did this to ourtablesaw at work, it's a contractor saw since we have to be mobile, andbefore if I put something like a wrench on the saw table while it wasrunning the wrench would quickly make its way right off the side from thevibrations, and now you can hardly even feel any vibration with your hand!IT definitely cuts much smoother than I ever dreamed it was capable ofdoing. I think that the poly-v belts give the smoothness of flat belts andthe gripping power of v-belts, kinda the best of both worlds.Didn't have anything to do so thought I'd ramble a bit, you all have a niceday! Joe

Interesting post #4Posted by Joe on May 08, 01 at 07:55:09:

...wooden pulleys on the lathe headstock have a lot to recommend them, notthe least of which is the fact that the coefficient of friction of leatherto wood is greater than leather to cast iron or more particularly steel.

An 1850's era woodworking lathe that I own had been converted to a v beltdrive, seemingly by putting a wooden "disk" in place of the original pulleyand then turning the disk so that it had a groove for the belt to ride in.It took me a few minutes and a bit of keen observation to see that thewooden pulley was original construction and had been considerably larger andlonger and had probably 75 percent of it removed in the adaptation. Someone*really* wanted the lathe adapted to electric motor drive.In fact on this lathe the smallest diameter of the cone pulley was actuallycast iron and "made" right to the headstock shaft and served with woodscrews to hold the wood portion of the pulley in place.With some creative intuition I was able to "reconstruct" the original woodenpulley from laminated maple. This takes some time but a bandsaw helps asdoes choosing your step thicknesses to be some multiple of 3/4 inch.The other factor to think of is the pulley in the countershaft has to"match" the pulley in the headstock. Otherwise, it's possible to have thebelt tight on one step and yet be loose on another. (Match is "approximate"since the leather belts will stretch a bit - within 1/2" is likely closeenough.) You may want to consult the formulas in "Machinery's Handbook"which take into account the distance between the two shafts also. Anothergood reason for making at least one of the two pulleys from maple.The usual practice (my 1850's lathe notwithstanding) was to have the pulleyin the overhead drive made of wood and the pulley on the headstock of thelathe made of iron. The reason for this was to have any slippage thatoccured in the leather belt visible on the pulley nearest to the operator.Hopefully the operator would thus be more attentive to the belt tightnessand more inclined to keep his machine "up to snuff."It was also recommended by Machinery's Handbook that the pulley diameterschosen result in a "logarithmic" ratio between the different speeds.However, I have examined most of my early flat belt drive machine tools forthis and found it to be a "late" convention. Most 19th century machines donot incorporate this.Usually the iron pulley on the lathe was machined inside and out and evenbalanced if necessary with a small weight. Anything to make the lathe easierturning without vibration.To tell you the truth, I actually have in my barn the two pulleys you needfrom a Royersford 21" upright post drill press. However, it's a long wayfrom New Hampshire to Tactical Link and likely you'd be better off

financially to try to get your pulleys locally. The $50 shipping fee plusthe $20 I would probably want for the pulleys will likely buy you enoughmaple to make the two pulleys twice over, or purchase an entire scrap drillpress from a junkyard locally.

Anyway, hope this all helps.Best regards, Joe K in NH aka "Yankee Mechanic"________

Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 03:49:24 -0500From: "Randy" <rpedersenx~xxkscable.com>Subject: Re: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

Group:If you have ever watch brake drums being turned they are usually wrappedwith a thick leather or rubber belt to remove the harmonic vibrations tostop the chatter marks. On disc brakes we always used a thin spring steelstrap with lead weights attached to do the same thing. I believe thatlike John Meacham says anything to add a dampening force will help.

Randy Pedersen

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Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 19:46:27 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Problem with adjustments

larry ice wrote:> Morning fellow Atlas owners> I have a problem with my 10" Atlas lathe I. certain many of you might> provide some info on. My 10" lathe appeared almost new when I bought it> last year and usually I am well satisified with the performance. Last> night however, I was turning an aluminum spacer for a Hudson straight> eight motor and I had a problem with chatter. I solved that with the> info on the chatter thread but later found the compound rest had> loosened to the point that I could detect serious movement. The power> cross feed appears ok but the tool post holder feed is really loose.> Perviously I had taken it off and cleaned everything before reassy. It> worked fine til now. I did have trouble adjusting the small acme thread> screw with the lock nut and handle to remove any slack although I> thought I had done the adjustment correctly. Guess not as this movement> has now returned and I wanted to get some advice before readjusting it.> I would appreciate any help from your experience. Iceman

i used to have a 10" Atlas, and the compound was really the weak linkon that lathe. There just isn't enough metal on it.

The swivel base is usually OK, but you might pull it off and see if anyswarf has worked under it. It has a longer lever arm from the tool tip,

so if anything gets under it, it can rock easily.

The dovetail slide is awfully small, and if the sides of the slide don'tmate well over a good length, then the whole thing is sloppy. There isn'tmuch to do but rescrape it! If the dovetail is loose enough that leadscrewbacklash is causing trouble, then you need to tighten the gib screws.Because of the weakness of the slide, I kept the compound gib screwsvery tight most of the time.

Anyway, slack in the leadscrew handles is not a serious problem.The wedging action of the lock nuts eventually work them loose, so youhave to readjust every once in a while. You can't get all backlash out,as some is in the Acme nut, too.

If you use the lantern-style toolpost, there is a shoulder screw in thebottom of the toolpost body that holds it to the T-plate. This screw canget loose, or the shoulder can wear, or the screw can pull apart. I usedto tighten down the toolpost on my 10" that I broke this screw. Irealized it was going, and was able to get it to hold together just longenough to make a new screw. I later replaced the whole toolpost with adovetail quick-change toolpost. I will never go back! That was thesinglemost important upgrade I did. It made an enormous improvement instiffness of the lathe, as well as saving a great deal of time insetting tool height.

One other Atlas trouble area is the gibs hidden UNDER the carriage, thatkeep the carriage from lifting up off the bed. This is usually only aproblem when using a cutoff tool, where the infeed force is very high.There are laminated shims that set the height of the gib plate. Ifthere is much looseness, you can peel a shim off. I use aluminum foilas a finer shim adjustment.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2001 10:24:49 -0400From: "William K. Macy" <wkmacyx~xxgsosun1.gso.uri.edu>Subject: Re: Problem with adjustments

I am finding this chatter thread most helpful as my Atlas/Craftsman12in suffewrs from the same problem when using a cut off tool. Thecross feed play is minimal, but the front of the carriage hasnoticeable vertical play. I think this is the problem for me usingthe lantern-type tool holder. On regular cuts chatter is not aproblem. THE problem: how do I deetach the carriaaage apron from thecarriage itself to get at the laminated shims you referred to? I donot have a complete manual, only an exploded diagram for a 10 inlathe. The apron seems to be held on to the carriage by a gearassembly about half way from the ends. Rather than removing everyscrew and/or bolt, I thought I'd stop now and seek assistance!

Many thanks in advance, Regards, Bill

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Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 17:44:18 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Problem with adjustments

"William K. Macy" wrote:> I am finding this chatter thread most helpful as my Atlas/Craftsman> 12in suffewrs from the same problem when using a cut off tool. The> cross feed play is minimal, but the front of the carriage has> noticeable vertical play. I think this is the problem for me using> the lantern-type tool holder. On regular cuts chatter is not a> problem. THE problem: how do I deetach the carriaaage apron from the> carriage itself to get at the laminated shims you referred to?

There are 2 very large phillips screws on the top of the carriage thathold the apron on. You have to remove the leadscrew first, and I thinkthere is something else that interferes, but maybe not. if you haveaccess to the back of the lathe, you don't need to take the apronoff. When taking the apron off, there are two dowel pins that assurealignment. On some lathes, they can fall out and get lost, so see ifthey are loose and store them if they threaten to come out.

> I do not have a complete manual, only an exploded diagram for a 10 in> lathe. The apron seems to be held on to the carriage by a gear> assembly about half way from the ends. Rather than removing every> screw and/or bolt, I thought I'd stop now and seek assistance!

Right, this is the power crossfeed pickoff, and the leadscrew goesthrough it. Just remove the right end leadscrew bracket and slidethe screw out through the apron. It is keyed on the left end.

When using a standard cutoff tool, it is the BACK of the carriage thattends to lift, from the reaction to the infeed force. but, looseness ateither the front or back gib should be fixed. There are steel (iron?)plates with two screws held to the bottom of the carriage. There arelaminated shims behind these plates. be careful when reassemblingas the screws can pinch the shim, making it accordion pleated! Ifremoving one lamination is too much, you can add back about .0015"or so with kitchen aluminum foil. If your bed has any measurable wear,be sure to check the fit of these gibs at the tailstock end, as theywill bind up at the least worn part of the bed.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 04 Sep 2001 13:33:40 -0000From: rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.netSubject: Re: Problem with adjustments

Hello Bill: The laminated shims are under the steel plates under thecarriage and there is no need to take the apron off of the carriage.Take the tailstock and leadscrew off and slide the carriage assemblyoff of the right end of the lathe.

Hope that helpsBob

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Date: Sat, 8 Sep 2001 23:09:15 EDTFrom: sleykinx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: crossfeed nut

zr1zr1x~xxnetzero.net writes:> I have read about a fix that cuts the nut and repositions the two> pieces, might try that myself. However I wonder how hard it would be> to make the crossfeed nut myself out of a piece of brass/bronze? It> appears that the thread is a special type and may be harder to do> than the standard 60 degree V style threads. Has anyone fabricated or> purchased a crossfeed nut/shaft lately, did you use a specific> variety of material for the crossfeed nut?

There are several flavors of crossfeed nuts for the 12" Atlas lathes.The newer heavier crossslide nut has enough space on top that you cancut a slot with a hacksaw close to one end and add a caphead screw topull the pieces closer together. A new nut would certainly be the bestway .. as long as you get the right one. the two types I know of havethe same thread but one is taller than the other.

RegardsGlenn Neff Medford, OR

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Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 04:45:25 EDTFrom: BillHunleyx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: crossfeed nut

Rick W -- If you make a new crossfeed nut for your lathe, you had bestlook at replacing the screw also. The nut seldom wears out withoutserious wear on the screw. A bad screw will quickly ruin your new nut.

Bill Hunley

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Date: Sun, 9 Sep 2001 06:46:41 -0400From: "Wayne" <burnerx~xxgsinet.net>Subject: Re: crossfeed nut

I have done this to one of my 12" a/c lathe cross feed nuts. Theprocedure is to cut the nut,put the two pieces back on the screw, makethem snug to each other,then drill and pin the two pieces backtogether. I'm pretty sure the list member is the one with the steamengine powered a/c 12" ;>o

(Ron T) Wayne(rice)Burner

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 05:16:15 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Craftsman 12" Bed Twist

david.kuechenmeisterx~xxatl.viasat.com wrote:> I'm trying to remove the twist from my lathe bed. The lathe is old> enough to only have 3 mounting points. That seems to limit my means> of straightening the bed. If I go through the steps that I followed,> maybe someone can point out an error or make a suggestion that would> solve this problem.>> I have a wood platform of 4x4s bolted together and supported very> well by a heavy angle iron frame. I planed the 4x4s level and put an> oak stair tread on top for extra support. Then I was ready to mount> the lathe.>> After I read through a bunch of posts about levelling or> straightening a lathe bed, the only case that seemed to apply to my> situation was to bolt down the headstock, lightly tighten the> tailstock and see how true the bed was. I borrowed a precision> machinist level from work, leveled the headstock end as well as the> longitudinal axis of the bed with the levelling mounts on my stand.> I moved the level to the tailstock end and sure enough, the bed was> twisted.>> I put a couple shims under the back side of the level and that> brought the bubble to the center, so I figured that would be a good> amount of shimming to start with. I unbolted the lathe and put the> shims under the low side of the tailstock. Then I tightened up the> bolts rechecked the headstock and long axis, then checked the> tailstock. Of course the bed was still out of true by the same amount> that it had been before. That one bolt on the tailstock just won't> apply any torque to the bed. In fact, on the front side of the lathe,> I could put a couple shims between the foot and my stand.>> Not to be discouraged, I thought that with two bolts on the> headstock end I could remove the twist there. So, I undid everything,> removed the shims and bolted down the lathe. I levelled the tailstock> and long axis of the lathe with the levelling mounts and checked the> headstock end. Of course it was twisted. I noted which side was low> and put some shims under that bolt. Then I tightened everything up> expecting to see some improvement.>> It wasn't to be. In fact, after I rechecked the tailstock level> and looked at the headstock, I seemed to have increased the twist in> the bed. The level was showing that the low side, front, was even> lower than before. I made sure the rear bolt was tightened, it was.>> So about now I am pretty confused. If I was looking at a pretty> small amount of twist, I'd just let it go. This is about two lines> worth on the level, so it's pretty substantinal.

No, it isn't, assuming we're talking about a master precision level.2 major divisions is less than one sheet of typing paper on oneend of the bed. (The bed is narrower than the level, so it magnifiesshims between level and bed.)

The most obvious thing to do is to attach some sort of frame to thetailstock end, so you can use shims and 2 bolts to torque the bed.This may be pretty difficult to do, however. The other obvious thing

is to untwist the bed by force, but this is a pretty tricky operation.For the amount of twist, I think I'd try it, but very carefully.

Is there any possibility that a burr or wear on the bed has madethese readings show up like this? You might try the level at a numberof points along the bed, and see if the twist is gradual all along thebed, or fairly localized. This would be important to know. If the twistis due to a crash, and is in one region only, then all attempts tountwist it, either by momentary force or steady load, will only beable to minimize it at best. You'd end up with waves and bumpsalong the bed. One trick is to run the crossslide off the back of thecarriage and let the level ride the carriage up and down the bed.This is a pretty quick way to see how the tool will actually 'ride'along the workpiece.

Anyway, once you know the characteristics of the twist a bitbetter, you might have a better idea what tricks will work to restoreit, and what won't help much. I would be surprised if you couldnot overpower the twist temporarily with your bare hands. Ifthe twist is gradual from end to end, I think you could probablyuntwist it by gently prying with a piece of 2 x 4 between the ways.You could probably put the level on the tailstock, and apply enoughforce to deflect it as far the opposite way as it goes in the restcondition, then check for any change at rest. Gradually increase thedeflection until it starts to untwist. Leave it overnight and thencheck again.

Note to all the flamers: I recommend this ONLY because we aretalking about a twist of ARC SECONDS here, over the length ofa lathe bed. If you could see this deflection easily, you would begetting into dangerous territory for cast iron.

One other note for the Atlas/Craftsman type lathes. The drive beltsapply a substantial load to a light lathe. Later "horizontal"countershaft machines have a bolt that is threaded in the countershaftbracket such that the head touches the headstock. By carefullyadjusting that bolt, you can minimize the change in bed twist dueto belt tension changes. The idea is all torque is carried by thatbolt, not through the table and the bed's feet at the headstock end.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 04:39:05 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

Ronald Thibault wrote:> > --------", and I can take 0.50" depth cuts with.> > It may be the steel you're using."-----> > Ron, Do you really mean 0.50" ? You must be using a very small> > longitudinal feed....or did you mean .050"?...or have you> > powered your lathe with one of your steam locomotives!?!?

Well, this may be the problem. I can take a .200" cut in Teflon, butrarely take even a .050" cut in Aluminum. Sometimes I can do that,

but it often leads to more trouble than I want to deal with. I usuallyrough at .030" in aluminum, and maybe when the setup is stiff and thematerial is free-machining, .020" or so in steels. Many of the thingsI turn are not conducive to good turning, so I may shy away fromheavier cuts more due to workpiece conditions than machine conditions.

But, I find on the lighter lathes you get a lot more done without prob-lems if you take rather rapid feeds with modest depth of cut. So, for afree-machining steel, I might use .020" depth of cut with a .050"feed per turn. With aluminum, I can sometimes do .030" DOC witha feed of .063" (16 TPI setting on QC) or something like that. Thefast feed with modest DOC gives the best resistance to vibrationbuildup. Taking a deep cut, or using a cutting tool that makes a widechip, combined with a slow feedrate is the perfect condition forvibration to build up. Each turn leaves chatter marks on the part,and the next turn, the machine vibrates in response to the chattermarks. the vibration can build to enormous magnitude quitesuddenly, and the part will be ripped out of the chuck jaws or thetool will break. The worst thing is when the vibration causes thecrossfeed screw to start increasing DOC.

A tool with a fairly sharp point, or smaller radius, is best. Very largeradius tools make those wide chips that cause trouble. Also, adjustingthe tool to cut on a wide flank of the edge causes the same trouble.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 00:35:22 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Why does my 12 X 36 chatter?

sleykinx~xxaol.com wrote:>>> Ok .. I have to ask. Ron, are you talking.050 on the diameter oractual .050 infeed? If you are infeeding .050 and getting clean cutswithout stalling the lathe I would like some enlightenment as to whattools, feeds and speeds you found that will do that. .025 infeed isabout the best I can get without stalling the 1/2 hp motor on my 12".I use carbide and so am turning fairly fast but the feed rate is asslow as the QC will go.<<<>> It may be possible to get clean results with this configuration,> but it is not very likely. It is MUCH better to use less Depth of> Cut, and increase feed greatly when roughing. The only time> I use the slowest fine feed is for a fine finish cut. Sometimes I> even add in some change gears to get a slower feed when making> bearing-like parts. Jon Elson

I gotta throw this in: tool grinding has a lot to do with it also.If you grind your tool to slice off the chips, as in putting a trough inthe tool with one side forming the cutting edge, you can take whatappears to be a huge depth of cut, and never chatter. Chips are slicedoff, and slide around and out of the trough in a nice spiral.

Chatter comes when there is a way for the tool to back away from the

work and lessen the load so it snaps back. This then repeats.

A typical low rake grind will have a substantial vector radially awayfrom the work center, and so will force the tool away and lessen theload, then snap back.

A higher rake will reduce this. With some materials, like Aluminum, thismight not be a good idea, but it may work great on others. The high rakerotates the vectors so that there are fewer ways for the tool to move andreduce the forces significantly. This kills the chatter mechanism.

I have had very successful results with this, increasing the depth ofcut to as much as my motor could stand without stalling at that feed.If I recall, this was up to 0.125 depth of cut in steel, there are chipsthat wide in my chip barrel. Feed had to be low, sometimes very low, orit would stall. Of course, your results may differ, and my work was ona 10" flat belt Logan.

Jerry

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 21:43:56 -0000From: michaelhenryx~xxmsn.comSubject: Re: Bearings

--- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxy..., "Bill Kealey" wrote:> Out of curiousity, what's involved in pouring Babbit bearings? I> don't have this to worry about now, but, am always looking for> new-old toys and may need to do this sometime.

Take a look at: http://www.metalwebnews.com/howto/babbitt/babbitt.htmlThere is a link for an old 1920's booklet on babbitt bearings there thatcovers some of the procedures. You'll need an Adobe Acrobat Reader toview or print the file.

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Date: Sun, 16 Sep 2001 10:11:22 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Bearings

In a message dated 9/15/01, elsonx~xxpico-systems.com writes:>You have to scrape down or machine away enough of the old babbit material>so there is a channel for the new babbit metal to flow into place. I'm not>sure whether you need to preheat the bearing substrate or the spindle.

I have re-babbeted automobile rod bearings a few times. After you removethe old babbet you must tin the bare bearing with solder. Otherwise thebabbet will not adhere to the bearing shell and want to turn with theshaft. Took a few tries to learn this from an old mechanic. As I rememberwe used sal-amoniac for a flux and bar solder to do the tinning.

John Meacham High Desert of California, Palmdale, Littlerock.

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Date: Wed, 19 Sep 2001 20:25:50 -0400From: "Ebower" <ebowerx~xxlcsys.net>Subject: Re: Spindle bearings

>>> I have a Craftsman 12x36 lathe that started to make loud high pitchedsound that was unbearable. The lathe also immediately stops when powereddown, something it did not do before. Also some roughness when turnedfreewheel by hand. Made a lot of ratteling and ringing noised when in usefor a while now. I suspect spindle bearing failure but am not sure. Isthere any other way to test my suspicions before I spend the big bucks forbearings? Could anything else cause those ringing/rattleing noises? Theseare Timken tapered roller bearings for Craftsman model 101.28910. I hope tosave some money by purchasing said bearings from my local bearing dealerinstead of from Clausing or Sears, is it a fallacy to think I can get themthere cheaper? Does anyone know what the Timken part numbers are so that Ican buy them from an outside source? Any help would be surely appreciated.Thank you. mannyjrlx~xxmsn.com <<<

Clean the bearings and find on them what the number and maker is.Call MSC and ask for customer service and give them the numbers.They may have replacements. (I buy a lot of my bearings from them).

Earl Bowerbower machine

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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 13:52:44 EDTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: 10F-11 Gearcase (from Digest Number 646)

Might I suggest that one of you who has a broken gearcase measure yourexisting Zamac version and make a drawing for a "functional" replacementso that you can replicate it in iron or steel. Once you've made a replicaand proved it on your lathe you might then post the drawing to the groupfiles section as a service to others who need the same repair.

If we all do this for repair, service, or accessory items for our variousAtlas/Craftsman machines we will collectively be in a better position toproperly maintain or even improve our equipment.

Just a thought.Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Date: Sun, 23 Sep 2001 14:50:40 -0700From: "Jerald Hellmann" <j.hellmannx~xxworldnet.att.net>Subject: Re: Re: 10F-11 Gearcase (from Digest Number 646)

Anthony, thanks for the suggestion. I will do just that in the nearfuture, as I intend to open up the carriage apron soon to replaceanother part. In a similar vein, does anyone know of a list or otherresource that would make replacement of any other parts less expensive,such as Boston Gear parts or such? I am new to this group, havingacquired a somewhat abused 10-F that could use some minor parts missingor in need of replacement. Adding them up from the latest Clausing pricelist comes to $421. 33 plus shipping. I believe I might be better offto break my unit down and sell the parts on a piece basis and then usethe income to purchase a nice used unit. (It's possible, I might evenhave some surplus cash remaining.)Also, is it acceptable to post a list of parts here, that one needs forrepairs to their own unit, and conversely, some extra parts for sale ortrade that are no longer needed?Is there a repository somewhere for drawings or sketches of any partsone may need and elect to make?I know I've asked a lot of questions, but these are areas of concern forme as a new member and 10-F owner. Thanks very much all replies.

Jerry Hellmann (near Cincinnati)

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Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2001 01:21:40 -0000From: BillMcGoughx~xxmsn.comSubject: Re: 10F-11 Gearcase (from Digest Number 646)

Mine too had broken..I made a trace of the old one, and used it to build a pattern thencast it in AL.. a Very easy to machine project in the lathe and drillpress. You will need a little better than 3/4 drill bit, or couldprobably bore it on a face plate and angle plate too. There is abouta gijillion times more metal in my new one than the original. If thenew one breaks, its because im doing something I shouldnt be doing ;)

If you guys want the pattern to pass around, send me an address and acouple bucks for postage and its yours, however if you have the meansand equipment to make the part... the pattern would be a no brainer.

Bill

FWIW: If you're not set up to do the cast, and enough people want acasting only (you machine it yourself) I can make a few up for whateveryou feel is a fair price.

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 18:49:14 -0500From: "Charles Brumbelow" <cbrumbelowx~xxhome.com>Subject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

From: <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>> Sometime ago I read a post where a sober machinist(I assume) got fed> up with his carriage being free to run near the headstock, where the> ways are worn , and it jamming further down the bed where there was> less wear. This hero? just got out his best file and sanded the ways> down until the carriage moved freely.> While i am shocked by his audacity, i'm wondering whether to do the> same thing myself, for the same reason. I have a 12"x36" Craftsman> /Atlas #101.07403, and also a heavy 3"x48"Starret straight edge. I'm> assuming that the wear on the ways would all be at the rear, since> that part acts against the cutting forces, so would file down only the> rear vertical edge. I can measure about 0.003" difference from> headstock to tailstock end. Is this a sound idea, or should one of you> put a gun to my head and say "Put the file down, buddy!"? Any> ideas/comments would be greatly welcome.

Richard - Scraping the ways is a common rebuilding operation for lathes,but I've never heard of successfully filing them. Know anyone with alarge surface grinder who might -- for a reasonable fee -- clamp thebed down and take a few thousandths off? As I recall, surface grindingthe ways is what Atlas did when manufacturing these lathes.

Charles

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 19:38:31 -0500From: "M K (Skip)Campbell Jr." <mkcentx~xxswbell.net>Subject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

I had this done on former Atlas 12X36 at a local grinding shop, SouthwestGrinding in Ft. Worth. They used a Blanchard grinder a took about .004 offthe top for $32.00. This greatly helped but didn't solve the whole problem.

I did remove the groove in the top front way and most of the dings. Most ofthe wear is on the top of the front way and the bottom of the rear and ofcourse some on the front and rear edges.

I think the 32.00 was well worth the investment. I would think if someonewas going to scrape a lathe, having the top blanchard ground would suresave a lot (if not most) of the time involved at a very reasonable price.

Regards,Skip Campbell Ft. Worth, TEXASCraftsman 12X36 101.28990 http://www.mkctools.com

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 21:36:58 EDT

From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

While we are at it have you any experience in removing and replacingheadstock on 6 inch atlas?Does removing headstock get you into serious trouble trying to line upcenterline of way and centerline of spindle when it comes time to putit back together? I am in middle of replacing lots of parts in headstockand thought it would be easier to clean out dirt if headstock and wayswere separated. Is this is a step beyond wisdom and into unneededfrustration? Grinding ways seems straight foreward enough if you cannotaccept condition of ways.How critical is condition of way? Where is the line between acceptablemarginal and downright crappy? I suspect it must have a lot to dowith the type of work you do and the basic quality of accuracy builtinto the lathe.Cost... what is fair and how do you judge if grinder knows how to dogrind just enough and just right?

Louis

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Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 22:59:16 -0700From: S1 <gmdagenax~xxart.wustl.edu>Subject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

I had a 109 that had unevenly worn ways, and I filed down the high spotson the V-ways. I know a master machinist that had an Atlas 618 lathe 20years ago, and he filed the the bed down also to level them out. So ithas been done. I noticed an immediate improvement with the 109 I had.It didn't solve the problem completely, but it helped greatly.

If you do decide to file the ways, proceed VERY carefully, You can be asaccurate as a surface grinder, but it takes a very long time. On machinesthat don't have hardened ways, scraping the ways on heavily used machinesis a common enough practice if the rest of the machine is in good shape.

Gabe

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 05:25:12 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com wrote:<SNIP>> less wear. This hero? just got out his best file and sanded the ways> down until the carriage moved freely.ideas/comments greatly welcome.

Absolutely, DO NOT DO THIS!

There IS a technique, calld hand scraping, that will fix any problemslike this. The Atlas is especially easy, because the ways do not havedovetails or inverted VEEs. But, you don't just file away by eye.

You use a precision straightedge, or a surface plate, to find thehigh spots and gradually cut them down. Otherwise, you couldget a machine that operates very smoothly, but cuts barrel-shapedobjects! With the file and the naked eye, you would almost certainlyend up with "bannanna-shaped" bed ways!

Don't use the Starrett straight edge until you've tested it on a known-good surface plate. Then, you have to watch out for hand heat warping thestraightedge when you handle it. It is quite tricky to use a 48"straight edge without causing problems due to the heat from your hands.

I doubt, seriously, that all the wear is at the rear vertical face. Isuspect with spotting dye, or even magic marker, you would be able todetect easily measurable wear on the front and top, too. (Yes, wear onthe front and back is more important to accuracy, that's true.)

A file might be a reasonable tool for the first cutting pass on a heavilyworn bed, but you would want to change to a much more precise andcontrollable tool after getting the bulk of the high spots down. That iswhat the scrapers are for. They have only one slightly curved edge, so theyremove metal exactly where the spotting dye shows it needs to come off.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 06:37:20 -0700From: Mark Fraser <mfraserx~xxhelix.net>Subject: Headstock on 6-inch Atlas

I can't imagine why it would NOT be a good idea. It took me a littlebit of prying to "unglue" mine from the bed, but if you think about it,it's just held on with a few screws, and the alignment with the waysand the tailstock is something that should be checked in any event.

I took mine off to (hopefully) skim a few thou from the ways, sothat the carriage can be moved more than a few inches away fromthe headstock, while being snug when *near* the headstock. Gonna try amonster mill for the job (not my mill, and I trust the owner's judgement!)

mark

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Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2001 19:46:18 -0400From: James Meyer <notjimbobx~xxearthlink.net>Subject: Re: Only a newbie would ask!

Back when I got my brand new Atlas 618 I noticed that the ways were tootight at one end of the bed if I took the slack out of the gibbs at theother end. It wasn't wear since the lathe was new. I figured that theymilled the ways and one end of the bed was or got hotter than the otherand when the whole thing got to the same temperature, one end was

smaller than the other.

I used some grinding compound on the ways and slid the carriage back andforth while I gradually snugged down on the gibbs. I concentrated on thetight end and when I got through the whole thing was the same size allthe way down.

The other thing I did was to completely dissasemble the lathe and cleanit up. There were a lot of sharp edges everywhere that I took off lestthey work their way off and get into something sensitive later. The 618was a cheap lathe (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it) and theycouldn't afford to take the time to really finish all the pieces the waymore expensive machines would have been done.

Jim

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Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:14:10 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: bull gear pin keeps disengaging?

egjamesonx~xxaol.com wrote:> the bull gear of my (recently refurbished) Atlas 10" keeps> disengaging when the load gets a little high. If it stays engaged> there is plenty of torque to make the cut it just seems that a heavy> load causes the gear pin to disengage from the step pulley. is this> supposed to happen or is the pin assembly worn out. if it is worn> out, how do i replace the pin only. any help is appreciated.

Wear is likely. First, check the setscrew that holds the bull gear inplace. If loose, it allows the gear to creep back and forth on thespindle. If the keyway is worn on the bull gear, you have a problem, aswobbling action may keep it loose, and work the pin back.

There is supposed to be a detent - a pretty firm one on the twoAtlas lathes I've owned. it is the typical ball and spring arrangement.With greasy fingers, it is almost impossible to pull the pin if thedetent is working right. If it pulls easily, that is most likely yourproblem. If you take the pin apart carelessly, the ball and or springcan be lost. I think there is a setscrew that backs up the spring, butsome lathes may not have this. On those, you have to make up a dowelthe right diameter to hold the ball in while the pin is installed.

Finally, wear is also possible. that is harder to fix. You will onlyknow this is the problem by disassembly, if all other checks don'tturn up the cause.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:30:00 -0400From: Richard Parker <edendwellersx~xxatt.net>Subject: Re: set screws

>> I vaguely recall seeing a suggestion that one can put lead shot under

a setscrew before tightening it in order to prevent damage to thethreads of the bolt that is being discouraged from movement. I amworking on an old Parks planer and the screws that hold the chip breakerin place have setscrews to prevent them loosening up. I had a difficulttime removing them initially and would like to avoid further damage.Does anyone out there have knowledge or experience in regard to thisissue? Randy in Winnipeg <<

In applications where a setscrew will bear upon another threaded (orclosley finished) part, I usually machine a rod from brass or nylon thatis a few thousandths u/s the tap drill diameter of the set screw. Then,I part the rod into sections about .060 long or so, and drop one ofthese in the setscrew hole prior to tightening the screw. I supposethat a few pellets of lead shot would provide the same protection, butthe brass or nylon plugs will last longer and add a bit of "class" tothe job.

I've also annealed the end of setscrews (they tend to be fairly hard),and drilled a blind hole in the end that's substantailly u/s the minordiameter of the screw. Then, I press-fit a piece of nylon rod directlyinto the end of the screw. This is handy when the screw must be removedrepeatedly (for adjustments, etc), because the nylon bearing stays withthe screw.

Best,Rich

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Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 06:01:55 -0700From: Mark Fraser <mfraserx~xxhelix.net>Subject: Way grinding (or milling)

Thanks to my friend Marcus, my 6x24 is now a much better lathe....

Firstly, while surface grinding is obviously going to give a muchbetter finish, the number of shops able to handle a piece this big islimited. Mills, however, might be more plentiful in your area.

Many shops think angled (rather than orthogonal) surfaces when you callup and ask about regrinding lathe ways. Setup for those would be anightmare, and much more expensive. You'll likely get a "no" or anestimate of many hundreds of dollars unless you clarify it up front.

Take off the headstock, the feet, the tailstock, carriage, leadscrew andrack - the latter is located with 2 pins that should pull out easily(or pushed out from the back). These are riveted to the rack - careful!

What I watched (and occasionally helped with):Bed upside-down on mill table, hold down using webs at ends, but fromthe inside facing out, to avoid making the bed wow upward in the center.

Skiff the surfaces where the feet attach; these will be the referencesurfaces for the rest of the job.

Right side up: Hold down same way, use an indicator to make sure thefront (or rear) outside way surface is parallel to the table along

the X axis - you'll be milling that surface so you don't want to cut1/8 of an inch off 1 end and zip from the other, right? This willtake a few minutes, but well worth it. The advantages of power-feedwill be obvious if it's a manual rig.

First cut, using a flycutter having a swath just slightly wider than thewidth of the top of one way rail. Objective is to just skiff offenough to bring unworn areas (such as under the headstock) down tothe same elevation as the worst worn areas. Don't sweat the dings fromthe (previous owner's) hammer or chuck jaws - we're after bearingsurface here, not photogenicity. Do both rails, proceed slowly, keepa uniform pace or it'll look crappy and you may have some arc-shapedgrooves deeper than you want them otherwise.

Ideally, you'll have to make another pass, which is good exercise and agood way to avoid taking *too much* off, which will complicate your lifeon reassembly.

Next, an endmill for the front and back surfaces. (cut with theVERTICAL portion of the endmill....) Same rules apply, not too much,don't worry about slight rounding of the way corners from earlier wear,a mm of "radiusing" won't kill you. Use a climbing cut for a nice finish.Mine was bowed 5 thou or so - front and back were parallel but arc-shaped!

Second last - a flycutter with a slightly radiused tip (did I mentionthat at the very start?) pointing UPWARD to do the underside of theways - outside only, not down the slot. Again, don't take off too much.

Last, redo the top surfaces, as the bed has probably relaxed a little.This showed up with mine as different way thicknesses at the ends vs.the middle of the bed (along the long axis, of course). Got mine towithin a thou by micrometer for thickness, same for top surface usingan indicator on the quill.

Use something to break the nice sharp edges on the way corners, or you'llmake nice cuts on your fingers when you pick it up. Wipe off all thecast iron dust, put on a light coat of oil and you're in business.

Now, put the headstock on - clean up all the grunge - old oil , filingsetc. so that it rests on the nice shiny ways, not on the crud. You mayhave decided to lap and polish the ways first, by the way; shouln't benecessary for any reason but appearance.

Next, at the rear / bottom of the carriage is a plate that may have someshims under it, with the gib between the plate and the casting. Atbest, you'll have to take out shims to snugly sandwich the rear way betweenthe plate and the bearing surface of the carriage. At worst you'll have toBOTH trim down the width of the gib (which on mine was a tight fitwith the 13 thou of shims still in place) and maybe skiff some materialoff the carriage. You'd like this to be a nice fit with the way, so thatyou can control vibration, especially during cutoff operations. Helpswith accuracy, too.

The front way uses a block next to the thread indicator for reducingvertical play on the front side.

One problem noted by others is excessive clearance between thehandwheel pinion and the rack - this has increased by the amount youtook off the top of the ways. Mine is ok, thankfully....

Next, I'll attack the cross slide dovetails, which are also badly worn...

mark

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Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:20:45 EDTFrom: steamclassx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Way grinding (or milling)

Just to let everyone know......I had my ways ground on my 54" atlas bed done at Brown & Covey of KansasCity. They did a supurb Job!! They took .oo5 off the top and .oo3 off thesides + they squared up the bed at a minimal cost of only 175.00. Thefinish is absolutely beautifull!!! This company makes its living atrebuilding manufacturing equipment. I would refer anyone to have them doyour ways on your Atlas lathe. The surface grinder they have is at least18' in length!! Good luck !!

John.

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:01:47 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

kplus13x~xxyahoo.com wrote:> I began the morning trying to put a preload on the spindle in order> to create the drag mentioned in the Atlas tech note on spindle removal/> replacement. The spindle rotates pretty freely when cold and I> thought it would be a good idea to tighten it up. I found I couldn't> turn the collar on the left side of the spindle, nor could I slide the> spindle back and forth in the headstock any amount once the collar was> removed.> I followed the tech note to the point where it said to drive out the> spindle. The spindle doesn't budge. Have I forgotten to undo> something? I've removed the left-most collar and the drive gear that it> captured. The woodruff key is also out. I've loosened the set screws(2)> on the collar to the right of the bearing and on the large gear that> engages with the back gears. Do I just need to beat on the spindle> harder? Can the spindle corrode to the bearings? This lathe is a recent> acquisition and I don't know how well the previous owner lubed it or

> what he used.

The only thing still holding it in is the rear bearing inner race. Thesehave a rounded area near the ID bore that tends to pack grit into theinterference fit of the bearing on the spindle. It will cause the bearingto bind on the spindle. So, you have to do a bunch of cleaning inthat groove before trying to drive the spindle out. I made some steeldiscs that have a step on the OD, and act as push plates for thespindle. I use these with a Craftsman gear puller. I made one discfor each end of the spindle (one to push it out, one to push it back in).

Note there is also a key in the bull gear, in addition to the setscrew.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:17:04 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

STOP...now is not the time to reach for a bigger hammer!Review tech notes on web site.Is it possible there is something overlooked still clamping spindle?It is also possible the infamous nefarious crud is at work.Remove per instructions and reinstall in reverse order works in themanual, but not in my experience. At this point I would suggest somecleaning to reveal the state of things, to allow you to form a mentalimage of problem and to introduce some solvent into areas that mightbe gummed up with crud since the year 1.

I am not sure which lathe you are working on and whether you areremoving or installing, but, of one thing I am sure whatever gets bent,broken or lost will hurt your wallet.

I am of opinion that machine tools are regarded by many as self cleaningand self oiling and that time spent looking after equipment is timewasted. It is unfortunate that this is not correct. When someone withhigh hopes and little experience acquires a new/old toy the first thingneeded is lots of TLC. It takes time and costs money and unfortunatelyas you have discovered you can't get there from here situations arise.All I can say to encourage you is keep trying you are not alone intrying to revive a good machine.

Louis

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:24:54 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Louis is right. Take your time. It took me 2 evenings to remove myspindle. Finally I tried heat. It worked but progress was still slow.Only luck keep me from damaging my bearings. You know that you don't

want to do that. Give some solvent time to work.

Hank

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:38:22 -0400From: "Harvey Noel" <hjnoelx~xxttlc.net>Subject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

I just took the spindle out of my 10" Atlas and it came out hard. Largehammer and block of wood. Remove the collar on the left and file off anyburs left by the set screw if there are any dings. Loosen the set screwsin the collar on the left. After the obvious is removed be sure theset screw in the large spindle gear to the right is loose. It hasprobably left a burr that causes the spindle to bind. Shim the largegear on the right against the casting with wood. Drive the spindle untilthe key in the large gear can be seen. Remove the key with pliers.Surprise it comes out easy. Then you can drive the spindle out to theright by the wooden block and hammer on the right. Good luck HTH.

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Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:47:35 -0400From: "Harvey Noel" <hjnoelx~xxttlc.net>Subject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Just one additional comment. When everything was cleaned and reassembledthe spindle went in slick and easy I was able to push the spindle throughby hand. But on the way out it took some pretty heavy banging..

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:20:47 -0500From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Dave; Are you sure you have the Timkin Bearing Headstock? Are thebearing housings solid, or do they come apart with 2 bolts? If the latter,its' a Babbitt bearing model. If it is the timkin model, there is awoodruff key under the larger spindle gear (bullgear). Tap the spindleback in place, then slide the gear as far to the right as possible, tapthe spindle to the right until the key is just short of the shield, thenfish out the key with needle nose pliers. You may have to wiggle thespindle and gear back and forth a little.

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USAhttp://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:41:29 -0000From: kplus13x~xxyahoo.comSubject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Thanks for the suggestions. It seems like I'm in the same spot asHarvey. Everything that is supposed to be loose, is and the spindleseems to be bound to the Timken bearings inner races.

>From some light taps with a dead-blow hammer, I can see that thebearings seem to be coming out of the seats. Front and rear, that is.Jon, I'm interested in your discs and I wish that the lathe wereready to make a set. There don't appear to be any "secret" set screwsthat the Atlas tech notes failed to mention.

For now, I think I will just scrape what I can with a dental pick andtry LPS on what's left. I don't think there is any corrosion, justsome bonding between the inner bearing races and the spindle aided bywhat appears to have been WD-40 or some other oil that leaves avarnish behind. Maybe some of the electrical parts cleaner that Ronmentioned using on his old lathe would work to remove the varnish.

Thanks again,Dave Kuechenmeister

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:57:35 -0600From: Jim Irwin <jimirwinx~xxaustin.rr.com>Subject: Re: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Try some really good penetrating oil such as Kroil, maybe even withsome lacquer thinner to help cut the crud. May take a day or more ofsoaking and working it to get it loose. May have to apply some heat,as in hair dryer applied for an hour or more (won't work fast).

Best regards,Jim Irwin

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:17:32 -0600From: "Randy" <rpedersenx~xxkscable.com>Subject: Re: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Dave: Over the years I have tried the following on tight fitting shafts.After making sure everything is clean I use a heat lamp to heat the areawith the bearings, this will take quite a while, make sure you don't getit so close that it burns the paint. The heat will transfer to everythingit shines on so after it is way to hot to touch either end of yourspindle remove the lamp and put ice cubes inside the spindle bore thiswill shrink the spindle away from the heated bearings and help it slideout. It may just slide right out or you may still have to tap on it.

I would not hit very hard on the spindle you will actually dimple thebearing race on the far end, if it takes that much of a blow I woulddefinitely use Jon's method of the gear puller a steady pressure shouldnot dimple the bearing races like the impact of hit after hit with aheavy hammer.

Randy Pedersen

Atlas 618 South Bend 9" A South Bend 9" C Salina, KS

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 20:00:01 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

Just made disc to remove inner races on 10121400 (6 inch lathe). Workedlike a charm. If you want it drop me a line. No charge and no furtherneed. I will have making a slightly larger disc to replace bearing races.It really helps to have another lathe up and running.This was a cut and try job and it worked so aaa is a cut and try job.

Louis

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Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:33:52 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Craftsman 12 in Spindle Stuck in Headstock

I failed to note before I started to write you are working a 12 inch lathenot a six inch lathe so disc I made is certainly not right for you. 6 inchand 12 inch lathes seem to be scale up or scale down of each other(depending on your point of view) so what holds true for one is probablygood for the other.

I had to drive spindle out using leadhammer and piece of hardwoodbroomstick.( lead hammer is a truly wonderful thing to have when needed).I was not concerned about spindle as I have to install a new one,ditto for bearings. When spindle is driven out left hand bearing cone androllers strip off spindle and right hand cone and rollers remain onspindle. Inner races stay in headstock. I made up a disc by cut and try(ie take it out of chuck on lathe that I was using to turn it and try itfor size) until I had a disc just small enough to fit hole in headstockand Just big enough to catch edge of bearing race. You can use threadedrod to make a puller or if you are impatient like me fasten to bolt andgive it a couple whacks and bearing races just jumps out of headstock.Bearing on spindle can be pressed or driven off...

If you are at point where you are ready to remove spindle and everythingis slacked off follow the instructions on atlas tech hints, double checkeverthing and apply gentle persuasion as needed.If you need a disk made, let me know the size.

A quick job not much involved. Note you will need two different sizediscs. A smaller diameter to remove and a larger diameter to replacebearing races. Both should be snug fit, but,not drag in bore. When youlook at headstock you will see what I am talking about and where totake measurements of diameter.

Louis

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Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:58:29 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Finally Fixed Chatter Problem, 6 Inch A/C

Some of my first posts to this list were about a mysterious chatterproblem I had when turning more than a few inches away from thetailstock center. Well, I finally fixed this. The problem was that Ihad lots of slop underneath the carriage, 1 thou on the far side, and4 thou (!) on the near side. Cutting force pushes the carriage down,but if any chatter starts to develop, the tool "bounces" upward afterdigging in slightly. If the carriage is loose vertically, this leadsto massive chatter.

I fixed this by removing the carriage and removing laminations fromthe shims on the bottom of the carriage. The far side shim had 1 thoulaminations which were very difficult to remove cleanly. The nearside had 2 thou laminations.

The near side was a bit tight when I finished. I slacked the screwsholding the shims and restraining plates very slightly, then ran thecarriage back and forth manually one hundred times, wiping andre-oiling every ten passes or so. Now, all the chatter is gone! Bycareful shaping of the cutting tools and improving my technique, I wasable to minimize chatter even with the slop. In effect, the slop mademe much more careful when setting up cuts.

Cutting off was still pretty iffy but I just cut off a half-inch pieceof drill rod with no trouble. Worked so well I made some washers outof it for practice.

Well, enough chatter for now :-)Jude Miller

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 06:39:28 +0100From: <j.c.gerberx~xxtbwil.ch>Subject: Re: Name plate removal

> Hi all, I'm in the process of refurbishing my TH42, at this time I'm> taking it apart and cleaning/repainting. Does anyone have trick to> take off the name plates/threading chart without damaging the plates?

I did not remove the plate, it is not necessary at all. Some tape on it,well cut with a cutter has saved it from the oil remover, the primer andthe 2 finishing coats. The plate is riveted.

Jean-CLaude, Switzerlandwww.homestead.com/turnandmill

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:40:16 -0000

From: extratec2001x~xxyahoo.comSubject: Re: Name plate removal

I'm also in the process of restoring my lathe (late model 12") andhave come across the same problem of removing the name, belt changeand quick change plates. My plates showed years of use, so I justordered a new set from clausing for under $20. The old ones wereeasily removed using a small punch. It was well worth it to mebecause now my lathe looks brand new!

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Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:45:18 -0600From: "Koepke, Kevin" <kkoepkex~xxspacehab.com>Subject: RE: Name plate removal

The name plates are held in place with semi-tubular rivets which wereapplied with a small bench press, and can be drilled out from the reverseside. The threading chart needs to be removed first so you can get to thename plates back side. On a TH42, it's easy to get to the back side of thegear cover to remove its nameplate. On the other hand, the verticalcountershaft model, the nameplate is ussually mounted near the base of theheadstock, which makes it hard to get to the back side. You can use acenter punch on the head to center drill.

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Date: Sun, 02 Dec 2001 07:04:04 -0500From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Name plate removal

>Hi all, I'm in the process of refurbishing my TH42, at this time I'm>taking it apart and cleaning/repainting. Does anyone have trick to>take off the name plates/threading chart without damaging the plates?

If the hole for the drive rivets goes all the way through the casting, youmay be able to drive them out from the back. Failing that I have had luckusing a Dremel tool with a grinding stone to remove most of the head, thendrive the shaft of the rivet in further, breaking off the remains of thehead. This is not a perfect solution (unless your hand is steadier thanmine), but it does work. I agree with Jean-Claude, about leaving them inplace if possible. I had to remove mine as there was rust under theheadstock speed chart, and I put a new bed on the lathe, and had to retainthe original name plate from the old bed.

P.S. A coat of Future Floor Polish applied with a rag to the face of thename plate after cleaning, does wonders for the appearance.

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA

http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Sat, 01 Dec 2001 06:00:10 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Question.............

Manuel Sanchez wrote:> Does anyone know if - when you have the lathe bed re-ground,> does it keep it's hardened ways, or does it need to be hardened again?> Or was it ever hardened? It would be about 5 - 10 thousands> of an inch grind. And also, how deep is the hardening anyway?> My lathe is a 12 inch Craftsman 1937 model.

Atlas beds are most certainly NOT hardened from the factory. Regrinding10 thousandths off a hardened bed would remove the hardened layer, but youdon't have one (Which is one reason the beds do wear so much).

Jon

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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:12:39 -0000From: "rkueffer25" <kueffer25x~xxaol.com>Subject: Under Cabinet Lathe

I really like the clean look of the under cabinet models, just wonderingif it was possible to convert an Atlas lathe (motor & pulleys mountedabove) to an under cabinet model(motor & pulleys mounted below the lathebed). Building the cabinet would be pretty straightforward but wouldplacing the belts & pulleys under the cabinet be out of the question.Do the under cabinet models use the same pulley/shaft combination? Hasanyone done this or would it be better off to try to locate a Atlascabinet to start with? As I'm right now cleaning mine up to use and Ihave never seen one of these under cabinet models in person (onlypictures) I would like any insight on such a project, pro or con.

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Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 23:48:55 -0000From: "extratec2001" <extratec2001x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Under Cabinet Lathe

I have one of the late Model 12" Atlas lathes on the underdrive cabinet.My lathe started life as a bench top unit, and I converted it over tofit the factor cabinet. Inside the headstock, you need to replace the4-groove pulley with the original 2-groove pulley from a lathe that wasoriginally on the cabinet stand. I was lucky enough to find that pulleyat Sobel Machine in NJ. He will mail anywhere and is a very honest guy.

Regis

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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 01:14:49 -0000

From: "jt27278" <jtaylorx~xxnc.rr.com>Subject: Crunch!

My early 10" Atlas lathe made an expensive noise last night and Ihope someone can help me. I'm not sure what started the problem,probably a chip where it shouldn't be, but the result was a brokenzamak part that I don't think can be repaired. The broken part isthe bracket in the apron that holds the hand wheel gears. Thebracket holds a shaft with a small gear on one end that meshes withthe rack, and a larger gear that meshes with the gear on the hand wheel.

A call to Sobel confirmed my fears that this part is no longer available.My lathe is the early version that does not have power cross feed and usesa 5/8" lead screw. Sobel's only suggestion was to upgrade to a power crossfeed apron and a 3/4" lead screw. I would prefer not to do this as it isquite expensive.

So, does anyone have one of these goodies they could part with?Alternatively, I'm thinking of trying to mill a replacement from ablock of aluminum. My milling skills are minimal, so someencouragement, or a better idea will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,Jeff Taylor

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Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 20:51:50 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Crunch!

If part is not available from clausing/atlas or some other source considerfabricating part up from individual pieces of brass. It might be easierto make several simple pieces and use silver soldering or fastenersto assemble. I have considered this part briefly and think gettingthe measurements right the first time might be more luck than planning.

If you have a good set of measurements and make a series of small simpleparts you may be able to fudge or rework as needed to arrive at a usablereplacement. I suppose the best approach is to use the skills knowledgeyou have confidence in although there is much to be said for projects andapproaches that force you to grow. Just thoughts from a newbie.

Louis

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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 08:12:37 -0000From: "rweersing1947" <rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.net>Subject: Re: Crunch!

The part you need is #9-11 which Clausing doesn't make anymore. I have

an early 10-D model and a 10-F model lathe and I compaired the 9-11with 10F-11 gear case and it doesn't look like it would fit. It wasclose, but the early 10-D has a shorter apron and one of the threescrews wouldn't have anything to attach to. That leaves you with fewchoices, buy a used 9-11 gear case, buy a used 10-D carriage on ebay,sometimes you can pick up the whole 10-D carriage for cheap, buy a 9"carrage and take off the part, or convert it to a F series carrage. Ifyou decide to convert to the F series you will have to buy most of thecarriage(the tool post slide and the upper swivel are the same as yourD model, all the rest is different.), a 3/4" lead screw, and the10F-16 bearing that holds the right end of the leadscrew. You will gaina power crossfeed and be able to find parts but it will be expensive.

Good luckBob

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Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 20:43:45 -0800From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Crunch!

Jeff; I fixed a broken gear bracket on my lathe with a brass strip andepoxy. I wrote it up on my site in the Atlas section (addressbelow). Perhaps you can fix yours with the same method.

Ron Thibaulthttp://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:43:56 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Part needed...

hutchlk wrote:> I would like a complete saddle assy' for a 12" Atlas lathe. My> present one does not have power crossfeed and I would like to change.> If anyone happens to know of one I would appreciate you letting me know.

Be careful. Your lathe is a model 'D'. The model 'F' lathe had the powercrossfeed, but it also had a 3/4" leadscrew with a keyway in it. At theleast, you would need to replace the leadscrew, too. There might be otherthings that won't fit, so the parts the leadscrew attaches to, like theright-end bearing and the reversing gearbox, might also need to be changed.

I assume you have a 5/8" leadscrew, which was standard with the 'D' model.A few during the transition came with the 3/4", just to keep us confused.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 19:47:13 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Part needed...

ARRGH! There's MORE! Note than a bunch of 12" model 'D' beds were actually10" beds, with the 3/8" thick ways, rather than the later 12" bed with the1/2" thickness. Measure the vertical thickness of the bed ways. The front-back dimension of the ways were different, also. So, you can't just grabany 12" saddle and throw it on there without checking the measurements.It depends on whether your lathe was pre- or post-1938, I think.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:07:40 -0000From: "hutchlk" <hutchinsx~xxwctc.net>Subject: Thanks Jon...my

Atlas lathe does indeed have the 3/8" ways instead of the 1/2". I haveboth lead screws for it. I think the previous owner ordered a new leadscrew and as it came 3/4" he didn't know what to do with it. The oldlead screw is 5/8" and this would work if I could get the end bearingfor it. Does anyone want to buy a 3/4" lead screw?

Larry in WI

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Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2001 20:56:38 -0000From: "tomin130" <tjenksx~xxaccucom.net>Subject: Re: Part needed...

One more thing and I stand to be corrected on this. I think theaprons that have the power infeed all use the 3/4" lead screw. Ifyou look at your current setup, the lead screw passes through thebracket that holds the rack gears. This bracket won't fit the "F"apron as the mounting holes are not the same and the hole is only bigenough for the 5/8" screw. Also, the keyed bevel gear that rides onthe lead screw to drive the infeed is 3/4" ID. You'd better holdonto that 3/4" lead screw to fit the "F" style apron if you can find one.

One more thing, is your saddle and apron one piece or is theapron attached with two large Phillips head screws from the top? Ifit is one piece, yours is a "D" model and I don't think that was madefor power infeed. You should still be able to fit an "F" apron andsaddle to your bed, however, keeping in mind what Jon said about theway dimensions. I remember when I called Clausing to order the partsdiagram for my 10F, the first thing he asked me was what size leadscrew I had. It does make a difference.

Hope that helps.

Tom

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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 08:13:24 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: 12" Atlas - excessive vibration

kplus13 wrote:> I've finally reached the point where I only have to solve the problem> of excessive vibration, too.> I have replaced the worn belts with Powertwist link belts and noticed> some improvement. I also tightened some loose fasteners in the> countershaft bracket and lined up the motor pulley with the> countershaft pulley. That helped a little, too.> When I run at medium to low rpms, the lathe shakes pretty badly. The> lathe doesn't vibrate until I engage the headstock. I've measured the> runout on the countershaft spindle at around a thou, and on the> headstock spindle the TIR is too small to measure with my indicator.> It's probably better than a tenth. The pulleys appear to be undamaged,> and I've run out of ideas to locate the source of the vibration.>> I'd welcome any suggestions about what to check next.> Additionally, how loud are the back gears when they are engaged. My> clatter like crazy. Loud enough to consider wearing earplugs if my> hearing weren't already so bad.

I think you are pointing us towards the solution. The step pulley on thespindle is nounted on a bearing, so it can spin when using the backgear.They all go 'ding-a-ding-a-ding' when in backgear, but if it is reallyloud, then the bearings are shot. There is a setscrew in the bottomof one of the pulley grooves that allows you to oil these bearings, butsomeone didn't bother on your lathe, apparently. If the step pulleyis running off center, it will unbalance the spindle. The other thingI can think of is a missing pinion in the chuck. That will really throwthe spindle out of balance. Most shaky Atlas lathes are due to bentcountershaft pulleys or the shaft, itself.

You might be able to separate this by running it with the back geardisengaged, but the direct drive pin in the bull gear pulled, too. ifit still shakes, it has to be the countershaft or step pulley. If itonly shakes in direct drive, (back gear is too slow for spindle imbalanceto matter) then it must be the spindle or chuck. Try with the chuck off.(I've seen out-of-balance chucks.)

You should be able to manually arrange to spin the countershaft withoutthe spindle pulley, to see if the countershaft is out of balance.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 17:42:57 -0600 (CST)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Back assembly

The pulley assembly that is in line with the spindle is not directlyconnected to the spindle, but rides on bearings on the spindle. power istransmitted from it to the spindle through (thru, if you're in a hurry)a pin that drives the bull (large gear) that is directly connected tothe spindle. If you disengage this pin, the pulley assembly will rotatewithout driving the spindle. The smaller gear on the side away from thespindle nose is directly connected to the pulley assembly.

If you rotate the gear cluster that is behind (back of) the spindle bymoving the handle located adjacent to the back gear, it will engage theteeth of the gears on the spindle shaft. This will reduce the spindlespeed and increase the amount of torque.

Hope this helps.Leo

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Date: Mon, 24 Dec 2001 00:09:43 -0600From: "Jerry Foulds" <jfouldsx~xxkc.rr.com>Subject: Oil Cups with Timkens

I have been following the discussion about oil cup wicks, etc. Anobservation that may be helpful (although it doesn't have to do withwicks) is that the bearing oil cups on the Atlas lathe headstockfitted with Timkens directs the oil over and around the outside of thebearing race. The oil runs to the bottom of the bearing race and poolsthere. The only way oil gets to the bearing rollers and race surfacesis if enough oil pools to raise the oil level to contact thesecomponents. By this time you there is enough oil accumulated to seepby the bearing covers and make a mess for days.

I drilled a small hole in the face of the outside bearing covers toallow oil to be squirted directly on the top of the roller cages whereit needs to be. A small rubber plug seals the hole.

Jerry Foulds O.P., KS

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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 07:28:57 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: 12" Atlas - excessive vibration

kplus13 wrote:>Thanks, I'll do a few more experiments today. I haven't been running the>lathe with a chuck, just because it would add one more unknown to the>system. I haven't done any testing with the back gears engaged, either.>The volume makes me think that there is something else wrong with>them. I'll look into the bearing problem as a separate issue.

Ohh - it makes the clanging in direct drive! Well, something is veryloose, for sure. It is possible one of the bushings in the spindle steppulley have disintegrated, or been pushed out by careless disassemblyof the spindle (not hard to do if you don't have the manual.)

>After re-reading my post with Jon's comments, I'm starting to>suspect problems in the headstock spindle, as well. I didn't replace>the tapered bearings when I removed and replaced the spindle because>they looked okay. Possibly they are not; I would think there would be>some runout on the spindle nose, if that were the case.

Not necessarily. They can still run pretty true when in bad shape.The vibrations from mangled rollers will make very small wiggles inthe spindle rotation. Shot roller bearings make a rumbling sort ofnoise, much different from clanging of totally loose journal bearings.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2001 14:10:15 -0000From: "kplus13" <kplus13x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: 12" Atlas - excessive vibration

I didn't do a very good job on that last post. The lathe isn't especiallynoisy in direct drive. Just when the back gears are engaged. However, thewashing machine-like vibration doesn't happen when I disengage the directdrive pin and allow the reduction gears to spin freely. That's only when Iallow the headstock spindle to spin, either by engaging the back gears orby switching to direct drive.

I took the headstock spindle out and looked more closely at the bushings onthe gear and pulley. There is some wear on the pulley; for the relativelysmall amount of money Clausing wants, I'll replace them all. Any tips onhow to drive them out and replace them without causing any damage?

I should put the headstock spindle on v-blocks and measure the runout, butI don't think there is much to measure. On the other hand, I've plenty oftime before the new bushings arrive, so why not?

Thanks for the tips on the gear lube. I think I'm quite close to makingthis a very tight lathe. I'm looking forward to actually makingsomething with it.

Sincerely,Dave Kuechenmeister

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Date: Sun, 30 Dec 2001 10:45:35 -0800From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Re: 12" Atlas - excessive vibration

Dave; Another source of vibration may be the motor/motor mount. On myold lathe the mount for the screw which applies the locking force betweenthe countershaft and motor mounting plate was broken. I was just usingthe weight of the motor to hold tension on the belt. Well the motorwould climb slightly, fall back as the belt slipped minutely, and thenrepeat. This caused the whole lathe to shake at a fair rate, with themotor bouncing around nicely! While this did not cause terrible problems,I'm sure it did not help the surface finish any. I sold that lathe beforeadding a tie-down for the mount to the bench, but would have done so ifI had kept it.

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA

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Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 08:56:34 -0500From: "Tom Few" <tomfewx~xxsympatico.ca>Subject: Re: Lead Screw Bearing

>> metalcraft12001 wrote:>>> Evidently a small chip wedged in the carriage gears on my 10" D Model>>> and of course sheared the lead screw bearing. I called Atlas but they>>> only had the bearing for the F Model. Would anyone know where one>>> might be available. Needless to say this happened in the middle of a>>> job I have promised for next week. Thanks Pat Dillon>>>> Is this the right hand support for the leadscrew, under the tailstock?>> You might be able to jury rig some fix temporarily. I'm sure Dave Sobel>> can come up with the whole bracket. It is supposed to shear in such a>> way that you can fix it on the lathe, without needing the leadscrew to>> make the repair part. It is supposed to punch out the thin bushing, and>> then the leadscrew 'unscrews' through the bushing until you get the>> machine stopped. Jon

> Jon, Thanks for the reply. Yes it is the bushing under the tailstock end> but it sheared in half and as you probably know it's unweldable. I'm am

> trying to make a temp replacement out of steel until I can find the> original bushing. Pat Dillon

Hi Pat: I had the same thing happen to my 10" lathe...

I used a piece of 2"X1/4 aluminum angle about 2 in long to make a bracketto attach to the bed... I then cleaned up the piece of the bearing andmilled a small flat spot on it ... I carefully drilled and tapped a

1/4-20 hole into the bearing holder...then by more luck than skillI'm sure. I marked and drilled holes to mount everything together.

I was always going to replace this makeshift part with the right one...but this worked out so well that I am still using it ...

If I can be of any help ... send me an email at rtffewx~xxhotmail.com

RegardsTom

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Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:54:39 -0500From: Brian Green <tigasc81x~xxoptonline.net>Subject: Re: Lead Screw Bearing

Yes, the same thing happened to me on my 10x42. What I did as a temporaryfix was to make a small support plate, held by the normal mounting screws,then stick the whole lot together with a "steel" epoxy. Let it set for48hrs, trim the edged and mount it. It worked so well it's still in usemonths later, and I've stopped checking it for cracks. I guess most ofthe stresses involved must be absorbed at the gearbox end.

Good luck,Brian

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Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:05:42 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re:

Rick Kruger wrote: > What is the pitch of the Atlas 6" leadscrew?

16 threads per inch.

Best, Jude Miller

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Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:56:16 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: bent headstock spindle

That is quite common. New old stock spindles are not available, but theycan be made fairly easily, and some folks on the list do make them,including E Bower, I think.

Drawings are in the AAdocs file in the rec.crafts.metalworking drop box.The jacobs chuck can cause that problem due to the long stick outrelative to spindle diameter. You start out 3 diameters from the supportand go from there. I would suggest using tailstock center foressentially ANY turning on the 109.

One fix is to make a spindle with 3/4-16 nose thread, it is harder tobend, and uses available taig and Sherline spindle tooling.

Jerry

-------From: Ronald Thibault <thibaultrx~xxp...>Date: Tue Jan 15, 2002 10:01 pmSubject: Re: [atlas_craftsman] Lead Screw Bearing

>> Thanks for the reply. Yes it is the bushing under the tailstock endbut it sheared in half and as you probably know it's unweldable. I'mtrying to make a temp.replacement out of steel until I can find theoriginal bushing. <<

Check out the Atlas section on my site for diagrams on a breakaway bearing.

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USA http://pages.prodigy.net/thibaultr/

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Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:35:46 -0800From: Mark Fraser <mfraserx~xxhelix.net>Subject: Re: Six Inch Lathe (ways)

Mine had two problems:

1. wear near the headstock, resulted in either sloppiness in that area,or binding when the carriage was more than a couple of inches away.

2. Bowing BOTH front/back and vertically, by as much as 7-8 thou. Similarproblems on the cross slide. I suspect the castings were very "young"when machined, finding their natural, post-stress form as the months andyears passed.

So, unless you have a very good straightedge and lots of patience,scraping may become a medium-duration career.

I was lucky in that a friend let me use his big mill, and flycuttersdid a very nice job. I suppose I could do some lapping, but it "feels"very smooth both to the touch and when using the handwheels.

Important to remember - the bed IS flexible, so anchor it to the tableof the mill or grinder in pretty much the same way as it will be boltedto its normal bench. Believe it or not, you can distort it a few thouvery easily.

Also, taking too much off the top surface of the "near" way can resultin the drive pinion and rack not engaging properly. Moglice orsimilar to build up the undersurface of the carriage may be the bestway to attack this, but only if there is a real problem.

I also had to fiddle with shims and the dimensions of the gib on therear of the carriage, to get it nice and snug. This made a hugedifference in vibration levels.

Get everything nice and clean - grit free before reassembling, so thatyou don't do some unwanted lapping without knowing it.

As a test, I rigged up my milling vise - into the normal toolpostT-slot on the compound - and while it isn't the most rigid setupin the world, it is at least usable, which it wasn't before thetune-up. It's a small Palmgren.

mark

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 04:23:20 -0000From: "martello_nick" <martello_nickx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: How to check for inside spindle taper wobble?

Dear List, Don't know how to describe this but here goes:

As I was cleaning and inspecting my 12" 1937 Atlas tonight, I noticed aslight wobble at higher speed when I put a Jacob's chuck into the spindleusing a #2-3 collet. There was also a definite number of thump thumpnoises I hadn't heard before. (Course I had to turn my radio off firstto hear them.) I began to get worried about my Babbitt bearings but theredoesn't seem to be any side to side movement here. Checked for end playand tightened up the end collar nut a tad but that didn't help.

Checking around I found the smaller jackshaft pulley setscrew loose, soI tightened that and took some of the noise away. Found the bull gearsetscrew also loose and tightened that and all the noise went away.Wobble was still there! I don't see any wobble on the outside end of thespindle. The 3 jaw and 4 jaw chuck do not seem to wobble, it's only whenI put something inside the spindle. (I tried several collets and tools,a long reamer and two other jacobs chucks as well as a large 1/2" cutter.I can't believe all of these tools are bad. Could this mean the insideof my spindle is out of round? How can I check this? If I can check thisand find it bad, how do I fix it?

ThanksNick

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Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:26:21 -0700From: Steve K <stevek433x~xxattbi.com>Subject: Re: How to check for inside spindle taper wobble?

HI Nick: There is probably a slight burr inside the spindle...somewhereon the inside taper itself. A burr will cause ALL tools inserted towobble, even though a chuck, which is threaded to the outside of thespindle will not wobble. Hopefully, it is just a burr, because you canusually stone it off. If the spindle taper is worn excessively, you havea problem. Sometimes you can feel a burr with your little finger inserted

into spindle, and rotate the shaft BY HAND... NOT under power!!.

A better way is to use a dial test indicator (DTI) with the tipregistering in 2-3 places in the taper... start at the mouth, then godeeper about an 1/8" of an inch, and then deeper another 1/8" of aninch. Each time rotate the spindle by hand and watch for runout, or, a"blip" where the needle jumps over the hopeful burr.

If you find a burr, the best way to stone it (and remove the burr) is toget a matching taper reamer (usually a MT #2 or #3). Insert the reamerin a tail stock chuck, advance it into the headstock spindle, and turnthe reamer, by hand again, one or two revolutions. You should not needany more, if you do, the taper is very badly worn and it IS screwed up.

Use plenty of threading oil, (or kerosene, or even WD 40 in a pinch),but keep the reamer lubricated and GENTLY turn the reamer and applypressure with the tailstock so the reamer does cut. You can feel itcut. The headstock spindle does not rotate (in fact, lock it if youcan), although if you are in a daring mood, you can rotate the spindleunder power, with the reamer in the tailstock chuck. This is using whatwould called a "chucking" reamer -- i.e. using a reamer under power.

I would not do this, because if you require that much metal to be removed,your taper is really screwed up. You are into another whole issue.

If you do not have a reamer, and there is a RAISED burr, you cansometime "sand" it out with strip of emory paper or Silicon Carbidepaper. This is tricky because you can easily screw up the taper bysanding too much. Again, use a lubricant and wrap the paper around adowel. Even better, turn a wooden plug that approximates the taper,wrap the sandpaper around that, and insert it into the spindle taper.Again, be gentle, feel for the burr and sand it until the burr is goneby rotating the spindle. I highly recommend you do not sand with an "inand out" motion... too easy to screw up the taper.

If the above fails, you will quite possibly need to have the taperreground or re-machined. A lot of home shop machinists do it, so youcan too. The trick is to get the compound set up to the correct angle,and either rig up a grinder, with a tiny wheel, or a tiny boring bar,and literally remachine the taper.

Be aware that you will make taper hole larger. But providing it is nottoo much larger, most taper attachments will still fit. They will go indeeper, but they will still fit.

Good luck... don't panic because this is a repairable fix....

Steve Koschmann

[NOTE: SEE REAMING FILE FOR MORSE TAPER REAMER USE]

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 07:11:39 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: How to check for inside spindle taper wobble?

The first thing to do is just stick your finger into the taper, and turnthe spindle by hand (NEVER under power, it can grab and rip your fingeroff). Feel for burrs, mars and especially nasty galling on the taper.You will, of course, find some, but if you find a big one, there is youranswer. You can also look into the spindle with a flashlight and seewhat the surface looks like.

Now, how to fix it. if there is just one major burr, you can remove itwith a round stone, fine round file or a custom curved scraping tool.A small divot (low spot) on the taper will not affect accuracy at all.Any high spot will force the taper off center and/or off axis.

If there is a whole ring where a tool of some sort spun in the taper,then you really need some surgery there. My preference is to duplicatethe correct taper with a master tool and the compound (or a taperattachment, if you are lucky enough to have one.)

What you do is rig a die grinder, toolpost grinder, Dremel or whateveryou can cobble together, and put a small grinding stone in the grinder.Set it up so it can make it all the way into the taper of the spindle,which requires a rather long extension of the stone. Adjust the swivelon the compound until the stone follows the taper of the spindle asclosely as you can determine it. Take a grinding pass inside the spindle,taking off just a tiny amount of material. You can paint the ID withmagic marker to tell where cutting is being done. After getting apretty even grind along the inside of the taper, take a known-goodMorse taper arbor or other tool, and twist it into the spindle, and wringit in there a bit. Use magic marker or Prussian Blue "Hi Spot" markingcompound to indicate the area where the two tapers touch. You willhave to adjust the compound swivel until you get the grinding to fixthe damaged area, as well as to regrind the internal taper to match theangle of the arbor you are using as a master. If you start off with theangle about right, you can do this job while only taking off a fewthousandths of an inch, so you won't have tools going too deeply into thetaper. With this procedure, even if the spindle is BENT, the ID runs true.

One caution - if your compound slide is badly worn, it may no longerslide straight, making cutting tapers with it a very tricky and dangerousprocedure. One way to test it is to align the compound with the bed,and use the compound to turn a piece of stock. You won't getperfectly consistant diameter without a lot of fooling around, butwhat you need to look for is a "barrel" shape, or the opposite. This willindicate the compound makes a curving path, and will give a measure ofthe scale of the problem. If the piece you turn this way is a consistanttaper along its length, then your compound slide runs straight.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 03:02:10 -0000From: "martello_nick" <martello_nickx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Wobble Gone!

A big thanks to both Steve K and Jon E. for the help on diagnosing myID spindle wobble. You both hit it on the head. Found a ring (kindof a ridge-not a groove) built up way inside probably from a spinningcollet or tool. I think it may have been a bad collet sinceit was way in the back of the taper. I could feel the raised edgewhen I slid a screwdriver down the shaft.

I took Jon's advice and rigged up a rube goldberg on the compoundwith my new dremel tool. (I can't believe the wife got that for mefor Xmas without even asking!) It came with an flexible shaft so Iset that up on the compound per your instructions and it reachedhalfway down the spindle. I just had to touch it a bit whilerotating by hand and it smoothed down.

BTW, I found some cone shaped stones that Uncle Clyde had in his homeshop. These were about the same taper as a collet and the spindle.Could he have used these to stone down the inside of the spindle?

OK, here come more questions:

1. How can I keep this from happening again? I have 2 or 3 #2-#3collets which I use to hold Jacob chucks and milling tools. One looksmore grungy than the other two. Should I inspect all of them to makesure the outer case is smooth? I have a wire brush on the other sideof my grinder and could brush them up.

2. Will smoothing them down keep them from spinning inside the spindle?

3. How can you tell if the taper is right?

4. This is a 1937 12" Atlas with original Babbitt spindle bearings.Where can I find a tapered reamer for this and what size should I belooking for?

Thanks guys!Nick

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Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 22:20:56 -0700From: Steve K <stevek433x~xxattbi.com>Subject: Re: Wobble Gone!

Glad you found the problem Nick.... and congrats on a good fix.To further answer your questions, here are some ideas;

1. KEEP THE COLLECTS, drill bits, chucks-- et all CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN.Use a soft rag an wipe both the taper in the spindle and the whateveryou are inserting -- BEFORE you insert anything. I often will use a bitof paint thinner or alcohol to rub the metal clean. Using paint thinneror alcohol evaporates very fast, leaving no residue.

2. If you have "dirty" collets, first clean up with a solvent (like

above, or kerosene) and I recommend using a woven nylon mesh pad toclean them by hand. This is MUCH better than a wire wheel, unless thewire wheel is a VERY fine grit. YOu run the risk of literallyscratching the metal with a wire wheel in a grinder. Not a good thing.

3. To test the taper, you need to know the taper from the manufacturer,or from the anyone here who has one. The standard ones are a MorseTaper (MT) # 2 or #3 for this size lathe, but there a quite few others.

Call Atlas/Clausingn in Goshen IN and they will tell you. You shouldalso get the manual for them. I think Atlas lathes used a MT #3 in theheadstock spindle and a #2 in the tailstock spindle, but don't quote me.

Then simply buy a new good, known arbor that matches the taper. AsJone E. outlines, use chalk (regular school chalk, blue or red is easierto see). Make three lines down the length of the good arbor (about 120Degrees apart). Insert in to the spindle and twist gently once. Ifthe arbor is good, you will see the chalk coating all the way around theinside of spindle.

If you don't then the taper is mangled, but I think you will find thatsince you removed the ridge, your taper is just fine. Maybe not 100%perfect and brand new, but plenty good for daily use.

4. Tapered reamers are available from a bunch of sources -- MSCwww.mscdirect.com: kitts industrial tools, Enco www.useenco.comharbor freight www.harborfreighttools.com etc. etc. Bunch of places.

Good luck.Steve Koschmann

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 05:48:41 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Wobble Gone!

If a collet has damage that makes it sit on a high spot, rather thanthe entire OD of the collet, then spinning is much more likely. Makesure your drawbolt is tight.

> 3. How can you tell if the taper is right?> 4. This is a 1937 12" Atlas with original Babbitt spindle bearings.> Where can I find a tapered reamer for this and what size should I be> looking for?

I don't really think a tapered reamer is a good idea, as it has no wayto assure concentricity. A much better way is to grind it true withthe compound. To check the accuracy of the taper, you need some toolwith a solid male taper, like a drill, center or arbor of some sort.

You put Prussian Blue (sold in tool catalogs as "Hi Spot", but thesame stuff is available at art stores) on one part (the female taperis probably best in this case) then you insert the male taper andgenty twist it to transfer the dye. You then remove it and examine thepattern of blue on the taper. If you have a short ring at one end,the tapers don't match. If you have a long section of the taper that

has an even layer of dye on it, then the tapers are very accuratelymating up with each other. When using the compound slide, you justhave to adjust the swivel in tiny increments and grind again until youget the desired dye pattern.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:40:34 -0000From: "martello_nick" <martello_nickx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Wobble Gone!

AhHA! Now I understand.

I have a simple MT #2 or #3 that accepts the squarish end of things likecutters, jacobs chucks etc. into my spindle. Perhaps I don't have theright items? Can you give me a sample part number to scan for on HF orMSC?

I have been using the Morse Taper to accept these items perhapsincorrectly but that is all that I found with the tooling handed downfrom "Uncle Clyde" (previous lather owner and machinist).

Thanks,Nick

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Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:16:18 -0000From: "stevenhkb" <hstevenx~xxcavtel.net>Subject: Re: Wobble Gone!

Nick, sounds like a tap holding collet, Morse taper outside with roundhole inside ending in a square pocket. This holds a tap end in thesquare pocket, usually has a drawbar threaded hole in the end to tightenit into the spindle.

For tooling in the spindle, like drills or mill cutters, what you wantis a Morse taper milling cutter holder, which is solid and has aprecision hole to put drills or mill cutters into, with a setscrew tohold them in place in the Morse taper holder. You grind a flat on thedrill/cutter to recieve the setscrew, flat should be angled so thedrill/cutter tightens if it tries to come out from drilling /cuttingforce. This also needs a drawbar, most Atlas use 3/8" coarse thread.Make from all-thread and some nuts and washers if you are crude.

I have made them from old MT#3 drill shanks, they are soft on theinside and can be cut off where the drill portion ends and bored trueand reamed to hold a cutter snug, can't have any looseness here.

Steve

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 05:15:27 -0000From: "chris111148198" <cmiller231x~xxaol.com>

Subject: Re: Re-finishing flat ways

> I've been wondering about having an Automotive machine shop pass a> flat-wayed bed across the grinder he uses to true-up engine heads.> Any thoughts on this?

John Been watching this thread on getting a bed reground. I would thinktwice about sending lathe to auto machine shop. The type of grindingequipment in machine shops is geared so as most operations are idiotproof. I do not mean to say that all shops are like this.

What i mean is that valve grinders, head resurfacers, and such are madeso that the operator has only to put the head in and take off enough toclean up. Where as a lathe bed can have wear most likely where thecarriage was running (or twisted). So, if I was grinding it I would goto a real grinding shop and tell them you want it ground first with theflat side down and shimed where the bed has been worn (where the carriagewas running). If this is not done the electromagnet will pull the beddown AND WHEN IT IS RELEASED IT WILL SPRING OUTWARD.

After the bottom side is done I would tell them to dust the flat side toclean up. You could mic the width, if it is only a couple thou I might beinclined to let it go . To grind the edges requires the grinder hand toclamp the bed against a couple of large angle plates. Again you are athis mercy, because he will have to indicate the inside rail surfacesparallel . You might also mic the rails seperately micing under the headstock and at the ends as the tail stock rode on the inside. You can mikethe edge thickness after he completes the top. If you want the bottomedge ground it will be another setup (more money). I would not do thisunless it was really worn. As far as price 75$ ought to be for abouti hr for top and bottom.

Almost retired grinder handChris Miller

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:23:37 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re-finishing flat ways

Remember that you have to get the front and rear vertical surfaces(edge of bed ways) ground not only flat, but parallel, too!

These are the surfaces that constrain the carriage front and back, andare actually more critical than the top surface of the bed.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 07:28:40 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Grinding Flat Ways

> I have read some posts indicating this had been successfully done.> Since grinding across the flats does remove some metal, there must be> a change in the distance from the top of the ways to the lead screw--> does this affect how the half-nuts grasp the screw? Is it necessary> to lower the lead screw by the amount ground off the ways?

It depends on the lathe. On both the 10 and 12" Atlas machines, itwill automatically correct for it. On the 10", the QC gearbox or thereversing box for the leadscrew mounts directly to the TOP of thebed, so it will drop that end the same amount. You need to file out thebolt holes in the right end LS bracket to bring that end down.On the 12", the QC or reversing box mounts to the headstock, whichalso sits directly on the bed top surface, so it works out the same way.

[BUT IN A FOLLOW UP MSG FROM JON]:

OOps. In my previous reply, I said the leadscrew (at least the left end)will come down automatically. That's true, but misses the big omission.That is, the rack pinion on the carriage will drop, and the rack WON'T.This is a lot harder to adjust. The only way I know that is easy is tofile out the screw holes and holes for the dowel pins, and lower the rack.I have also heard of a method of raising the entire carriage rack drivemechanism by boring out and placing eccentric bushings into theholes for the carriage handwheel, but it seems like this will misalignthe way the bracket holds the bevel gear that pickes power off theleadscrew keyway. these are both on the same bracket behind theapron. So, I'm a little skeptical of that scheme.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 13:10:16 -0000From: "stevenhkb" <hstevenx~xxcavtel.net>Subject: Re: Re-finishing flat ways

I had a Atlas 42" bed done by a competent grinder shop many years ago,cost an arm and a leg tho, got a decent job. He did top and sides only.

You are right about fixturing to avoid changes when the mag is turned off,my shop would not do the underside of the rails because he was afraid ofhaving to true up his wheel too much to achieve a "Square" edge. He didn'trealize it did not have to be that square. I hand scraped it to relievebinding at the end of the bed on the underside. Long and tiresome job. Ithink you handle the change in dimensions by removing shims somewhere tokeep the shaft in the center of the half-nuts. Not sure about this.

Steve

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 14:59:36 -0000From: "k3vyl" <k3vylx~xxemail.com>Subject: Re: Grinding Flat Ways

I had my TV42 bed reground several years ago. The wear was .004 atthe worst spot. The work was done locally, but John at JC Bogeman, ashop that regularly does this sort of thing, briefed me on how it is done.

The bottom of the casting must be trued up first,with the bed ways on thetable of the grinder. The wear on the bed will not interfere with thissince it is only in a small area. The casting is then turned over and theways trued up. Large angle plates are used to set up for the edges, andthis is probably something the engine shop doesn't have on hand.

Everything went back together ok with the removal of shims on therear of the saddle. My machine now has no room for adjustment in thatarea. The bottom side of the bed was not done, and there is slight wearthere. This makes the saddle just a little tight at the tailstock end,but fully functional.

I also repaired all the other things that were wrong with the machine,including a very irritating broken bull gear lock. I would say the jobwas worthwhile.

RC

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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 18:00:24 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Re-finishing flat ways

Yeah I got one or two.

1) Engine blocks and heads warp considerable so auto machine shop work caninvolve removing significant thickness of metal whereas all you may needwith lathe bed is to even up lathe bed wear by accurately removing 0.001or possible a tad more.

2) A surface acceptable to mechanic may be flat to plus or minus 0.001 oreven more under a straight edge whereas a surface needed for a true lathebed my be plus or minus 0.0000 or as close as you can get.

The standards of acceptable accuracy between machine tool and products madeby a machine tool are all downhill. That is a machine can not produce partsto a higher level of precision than the machine and usually somewhat less.I think you should have a heart to heart to talk with person who is doingthe work and discuss whether his machine and standards of precision willresult in an improved machine or not. Anyway there is my $0.00000002 worth.

Louis

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Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 21:43:46 -0500From: David Beierl <dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net>Subject: Re: Grinding Flat Ways

3/1/2002, LouD31M066x~xxaol.com wrote:>Secondly please correct me if I am wrong,but, would't thinning>rails mean you would need to add to thickness of shims not subtract?>Or am I missing something big time?

The shims are on the bottom of the saddle, making the opening larger; soif the bed gets thinner you have to remove some to make it smaller.

Incidentally, on my 618 I recently removed one of the laminations fromthe rear of the carriage. I had to add back .001 to make it fit onto theways again. This has noticeably improved parting off from in front, tothe point where I often do it the "normal" way instead of using thereversed-tool arrangement I mentioned a few weeks ago. But I'm stillsaving up for one of Earl Bowers's lovely table extensions.

David Beierl - Providence, RI USA6 (or 3)" Atlas Model 618 lathe ca. 1941

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Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 10:57:07 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Shim question

I've taken apart my 101.07403 and have located my problem. No shims underthe carriage. CLAUSING list the parts (shims) on their parts list but hasno listing on their price sheets. Can I use common shim stock or is theresomething special about them? Do they go under the carriage or up on thebearing plate? What holds them in place?

Thanks,Hank

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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:39:24 -0500From: David Beierl <dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net>Subject: Re: Shim question

> Can I use common shim stock or is theresomething special about them?> Do they go under the carriage or up on the bearing plate?> What holds them in place?

Nothing special except shape, and the original is a laminated pack so you

can peel off individual leaves to reduce the clearance. It goes betweencarriage and bearing plate, increasing the separation. It's squeezed hardbetween the two, so holding it on isn't an issue.

david

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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 11:48:23 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: Shim question

The original shims are laminated so that you can remove layers to correctwear of the bed rails. The shims go under the bearing plate. This way ifthe rail wears 0.002 inches, you remove a layer or two from the shim andthe bearing plate is now that much closer to the bottom of the carriage.

The shims on the 101.07401 are a sort of flat E shape with several holes.The laminated shim stock is available from MSC for around $15 for a piece8 x 24 x 0.010 inches, with 0.002 inch laminations. When I adjusted mine,one of the shims had 0.002 inch laminations, but the other seemed to beonly 0.001 inch thick. It was really hard to peel off that one.

You could figure out the thickness you need and make it out of regularshim stock instead. I suspect that this will last practically forever inthe home shop.

Best,Jude Miller

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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 14:03:01 -0500From: David Beierl <dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net>Subject: Re: Shim question (Jude, David)

At 01:08 PM 3/2/2002, HUNLEY31x~xxaol.com wrote:>> I think I understand. Very odd as I have no shims at all and canslip a .003 feeler gage under the carriage at the ways (if I lifthard enough). By your description the shims are removed to reduce play,I need to add shims on the other side of the bearing plate to closethe "gap," to the ways. I'll have to take it apart for another look. <<

Make sure that there isn't a shim pack stuck to the carriage -- it's notvery obtrusive and mine was stuck tight.

>> *** It's always something***. Do you think I can mill off a coupleof thousandths in the appropriate place on the bearing plate and startover with a new set of shims? Is .003-.004 worth the trouble? <<

On my stiff-as-a-noodle 618, removing .002 from the *front* then puttingback .001 so I could get the carriage on the ways made a noticeable

difference. Or at least I noticed one, whether it was there ornot. Parting off seemed to become more possible. I'd been doing it fromthe rear, with an upside-down tool. Great results but veryinconvenient. Now I don't seem to need to do it that way so often.

I also have a feeling that it improved chatter in general, but that one'snot so clear-cut. Using proper way oil (Vactra #2) certainly helped -- Ican keep gibs tighter and still be able to move things.

>> I'm kinda new at this stuff. <<

ditto, even though it was my grandfather's lathe and I grew up with it.Gradually getting better at it. Right now I'm struggling with using themilling adapter which waves around like a stalk of wheat in a stiffbreeze.

davidDavid Beierl - Providence, RI USA

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Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 15:46:11 -0500From: Jude Miller <heyjudex~xxmediaone.net>Subject: Re: Shim question (Jude, David)

> description the shims are removed to reduce play, I need to add shims> on the other side of the bearing plate to close the "gap," to the ways.> Do you think I can mill off a couple of thousandths in the appropriate> place on the bearing plate and start over with a new set of shims?> Is.003-.004 worth the trouble? I'm kinda new at this stuff.

I had about 0.003 play at the front of the carriage and about 0.002 at theback. Parting is noticeably better since I thinned the shims, and thereseems to be less chatter as well. I ended up a little tight on the frontside after I removed two layers of shims, but one hundred passes back andforth by hand fixed this. I had to add a little way oil every few passes.

I came to the same conclusion you did about the bearing plate. I only haveabout 0.004 left on the front, and I might want to grind the bed some day.I thought that milling the appropriate amount off the part of the bearingplate that contacts the shim, i.e. the inner half of the top surface, wouldlet me do this.

In your case, I would try measuring the play with a feeler gauge, then milloff maybe 0.0015 extra. This will let you use standard 0.001, 0.0015, or0.002 shim stock instead of laminated. I wouldn't take more off thebearing plate than you have to.

Good luck,Jude Miller

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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 00:58:27 -0000From: "dkosciusko2" <dkosciusko2x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Shim question (Jude, David)

> I think I understand. Very odd as I have no shims at all

My lathe came with 0.010" of shims between the carriage and the carriagebearing plate. If you have no shims, there must be noticeable wear in oneor more of four places:

1. the outside edge of the top of the ways;2. the outside edge of the bottom of the ways;3. the carriage bearing plate where it contacts the bottom way; or4. the carriage where it contacts the top way.

The simplest way to correct for that much wear (if it really exists) isto have 0.005" ground/milled off the TOP of the carriage bearing platewhere it contacts the shimsBUT NOT WHERE IT CONTACTS THE BOTTOM OF THE WAYS.

Removing metal from the carriage casting anywhere is not a good solution.To check quickly for wear on the ways measure the thickness of the outsideedges of both ways every two inches from headstock to the end of the lathe(past the tailstock). The wear you are indicating your lathe has will showup in the differences. No differences, no wear on the ways.

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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 02:16:03 -0000From: "turbervilleg" <turbox~xxsnowhill.com>Subject: Re: Shim question (Jude, David)

I was curious about the wear on my ways and checked it in several places.The worst variance is .003". I know this is 3 times the factoryspecification, am I in big trouble or is there hope for this bed? As abeginner I don't expect I'll be able to produce work much better thanthis anyway, at least until I learn a thing or two. I saw the earlierdiscussions on bed grinding, is there a recommended shop who specializesin repairing these Atlas beds?

thanks,Greg

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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:04:25 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Shim question

> Can I use common shim stock or is there> something special about them? Do they go under the carriage or up> on the bearing plate? What holds them in place?

At least on the 10 and 12" Atlas-made machines (the 07403 is a 6", Ithink?) The shims are between the bottom of the carriage and the gibplates that ride on the underside of the bed. These keep the carriagefrom lifting up off the bed. The laminated shims have .004" laminations,so I trim them anyway with aluminum foil (slightly over .001").

What is your problem? The carriage is able to lift up off the bed? Ifthe shims are already out, then you may be able to turn the gib platesaround or over to get a new, unworn surface. You may need to add shimsback to keep it from binding at the extremes of travel.

Common shim stock will work fine, you have to carefully make two holesfor the screws to clear. If the holes are too small, the screw threadscan grab the shim and distort it, which will make the gib plate sitcrooked or just too far from the bed.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:08:29 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Shim question (Jude, David)

HUNLEY31x~xxaol.com wrote:> Do you think I can mill off a couple of thousandths in the> appropriate place on the bearing plate and start over with a> new set of shims? Is.003-.004 worth the trouble?

It sounds like your bed may have been reground. You will have to eithermill the underside of the carriage or the part of the gib plate that facesit, so the part of the gib plate that bears on the bottom of the bed willbe closer.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 09:32:26 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Shim question (Jude, David and all) THE END

You were right, they were there, just hard to find. Looked like theywere covered with some type of shellac. I made the proper adjustmentsand all seems well. Just in case your interested. The ways weremeasured and found to be .001 off on the front near the headstock, notbad (better than my ability). I removed one .003 shim from both sides.

That tightened the saddle nicely. Two more shims left maybe 3. Now tofind a Band-Aid, getting low, time to replenish.

Thanks again for your advice.Hank

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Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2002 07:30:26 -0800From: mark <mfraserx~xxhelix.net>Subject: Shims and way-grinding

[NOTE TO FILE: Also see Mark's original post here 13 Oct 2001.]

A few months ago, I posted my notes on these topics. My 6-inch wassomewhat worn near the headstock, so it was either sloppy there orwouldn't move past the 6-inch-away position. Set it up on a friend'sbig mill (his surface grinder wouldn't quite reach), and usedflycutters - did a great job.

The surprises came in the form of warp, probably from the originalmachining of "green" castings that relaxed later. As much as 7 thoubowing, front to back as well as vertically. The cross slide had 3 thouor more; the compound was fine. This also meant carefully rechecking theway THICKNESS (bottom to top) as both bottom and top needed skimming totake out warp, and the bed will flex a whole lot if you secure it tothe mill table (or grinder mag chuck) carefully. Hold-downs willdefinitely give you a warped bed!

No problem with the rack at that level of skimming, but the plate bearingon the way vertical surface had to be made narrower, as it wouldn't letthe vertical clearance be reduced.

I have to say that once I got the fussy gibs set up, it became a wonderfulmachine, no vibration, no surprises from grabbing, which was happeningbefore due to the toolbit / workpiece cantilevering the rear of thecarriage, which didn't have the right amount of shims in place.

So, it's worth the trouble, but a mill will do the job as well as asurface grinder...

/mark

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 19:06:24 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Grinding Flat Ways

Took fresh look at involved parts. You are correct. Thanks for pointingout my misunderstanding. In case of need grinding shim plate would cureexcess slop by allowing shims, Another excellent suggestion I had noconsidered. Good thing this group has savy and experienced folk willingto share or some fools (no names please) would be in deep doo doo.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 01:47:48 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

Randy wrote:> Am I missing something, don't these beds that have been ground> or milled still have to be scraped?

No. Atlas beds are ground on a huge gantry grinder that grinds severalsurfaces in one pass.

> If they are not scraped how long will they hold their fit?

It depends on how well you clean and lube the bed. If you let crud wedgeunder the carriage and then drag it back and forth, you can have prettyaccelerated wear on any soft Iron bed. Precision hand scraping willprobably help retard wear a little, and of course a rough milling orgrinding job will accelerate wear on the underside of the carriage.

> I would think the surface that is left by grinding or milling> would just grind away the parts slide against them.

Flycutters can leave a truly mirror-finished surface, with just thetiniest scratches that give a rainbow effect. these tiny scratches maybe useful to hold a little oil, just like the frosting on Bridgeports.Proper grinding would use the right grit to leave a slightly roughsurface but with no big 'rocks' sticking up to gouge the carriage.

You don't want it to look like a hydraulic cylinder rod, this wouldcause a good deal of stick-slip friction. An expert at grinding (notme) would know the correct grade of grit, depth of cut and feed ratesto deliver just the right surface characteristics. It might benecessary to follow up with an India stone to remove loose metalparticles and embedded grit.

Note that hardened and ground lathe beds are ground as the lastmanufacturing step. They can't be hand scraped as the material istoo hard.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 18:43:25 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

According to 1937 Atlas Manual milling, seasoning and precision grindingproduced such accurate surfaces that scraping was no longer required.This may or may not be last word on subject, but, who among us feelsequipped and talented enough to try to improve beyond grinding byscraping? Iron riding on iron is not best situation even precisionground parallel surfaces which is why oil is used. In theory oil floats

the surfaces so wear is reduced to minimum. $0.000000002 worth.

Louis

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 20:11:37 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

> Iron riding on iron is not best situation even precision ground> parallel surfaces which is why oil is used. In theory oil floats> the surfaces so wear is reduced to minimum. $0.000000002 worth

Well, oil is certainly used to reduce wear. However, cast iron on castiron is one of the few situations of like metals where galling is nota big problem.

Example. piston rings in your car. Cast iron rings, cast iron bore.Pressure of rings reduces oil film to a minimum, in fact some rings areused to scrape off the oil. Yet the engine runs thousands of hours withsmall wear.

The carbon/graphite content in the iron has been cited as a factor.Whatever the reason, in repetitive motion situations the iron developsa hard glaze after a while, and wear drops to nearly nothing.

Hopefully your carriage does not move enough to develop the glaze veryfast! However, for other usages, it is worth remembering that cast ironcan run on cast iron just fine.

Jerry

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Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2002 21:32:36 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

Okay sounds good to me, I always think in terms of brass or bronze bearingsand galling metals like stainless steels. There had to be a good reason whylathes and other metal working machines don't have dissimilar metal shoesriding on ways. I notice my cross slide seems to run a little on rough sideso maybe way oil would be appropriate when I finish reconditioning andreassembly. I had discussed earlier making a brass gib for cross slide andit seemed to be an idea with some merit.

Louis who has lots left to learn

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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 17:10:29 -0000

From: "k3vyl" <k3vylx~xxemail.com>Subject: Re: Shim question

I know that brass shimstock is almost always used on this type ofthing, but it has one problem, compression. Stainless steel shims are alittle harder to cut, and will cut your fingers smartly, but thecompression problem isn't there. People who do laser alignment use themexclusively, to get the repeatability needed for that type of work. Ihave found they make life easier in any application.

RC

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Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 19:28:11 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

Randy wrote:> Thanks to everybody that answered my questions. Now some more questions>> No. Atlas beds are ground on a huge gantry grinder that grinds several>> surfaces in one pass.> If grinding is the method of choice now why do companys like South Bend> still grind and scrape beds if you send them back for truing or have> I heard wrong.

The Atlas factory had a machine especially built to grind their beds, andit was only used to grind NEW beds, and the settings were never changed toregrind old beds. That would have been difficult, as it ground severalfaces at once.

Atlas is a different class of machine than the higher-end South Bend,LeBlond, Clausing, Monarch, etc. machines.

> Talking about those that have been sending their beds to automotive> shops to be ground. I have had a lot of blocks and heads milled over> the years and I would not want that surface finish on my lathe bed.

Heads are usually flycut, not ground. The grooves are supposedly desirableto give the head gasket something to grip. Clearly, NOT a good finish forsliding surfaces.

>> Note that hardened and ground lathe beds are ground as the last>> manufacturing step. They can't be hand scraped as the material is>> too hard.> Are these hardened beds so hard that carbide won't scrape them?

I can state clearly, from current experience with a hardened bed, that asharp carbide scraper will just glide over the surface no matter how hard

you press down on the tool. If there are ridges left from grinding, thescraper will slice them off, but once you get down to a relatively smoothsurface, a carbide scraper blade will not remove any material with anytechnique that I tried. (I didn't try real hard because I didn't expectit to work, and didn't want to destroy my blade.)

I am repairing a hardened inverted-vee lathe bed using manual techniques.I first cobbled together a travelling grinder from the tailstock base,compound slide and a toolpost grinder, and reduced the error in the waysto a small amount. I am now using a die grinder and Cratex polishingwheels to remove material in a manner much like hand scraping. I use astraightedge and hi-spot dye, but grind where the blue transfers. it ispretty tricky, as I have to worry about height variations, front-backvariation, and 'tilt', and get all

3 things to be the same over the length of the bed. I use a dial indicatorand a master precision level with a block made to match the undersideof the carriage, and ride this block along the ways.

It is a VERY slow process!

Jon

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Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:45:15 -0000From: "mdedlow" <mdedlowx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

> If grinding is the method of choice now why do companys> like South Bend still grind and scrape beds if you send> them back for truing or have I heard wrong.

Only someone on the inside could answer authoritatively for any givencompany, because it's not simply a matter of technological capabilities,but rather a complex of factors, including performance requirements andcharacteristics, capital/labor tradeoffs, aesthetics, etc.

Until fairly recently (20-30 years) technology was a big factor: it wasdifficult-to-impossible to hold grinding tolerances in the few tenthsrange, as needed for the best machine tools.

Nowadays it's possible, but still expensive. A super-precise way grindercosts hundreds of thousands to millions of bucks. You have to keep itvery busy to make a return, which probably means working in a productionline. Obviously South Bend has this equipment and capability, since that'show their new lathes are made, so in theory they could use it on rebuildsas well, but it's probably more economical to use manual scraping for thevarying bed sizes and alignment needs of the here-and-there rebuild work.

Also, as has been alluded to by others, scraped surfaces make betterbearings than ground surfaces, which is an issue independent of theflatness precision. If you grind to near-tenths tolerances, you'reproducing a finish somewhere the 5-25 microinch range, which meansyou're approaching the smoothness where stiction can become a real issue(try to slide two pieces of glass against each other with a film of oilbetween them).

So, the ideal surface is not a perfectly smooth and flat surface (likeglass), but rather a surface with many small flat-topped hills and valleys,for example where each hill and valley is maybe 1/8"-1/4" square, and theheight delta between them a few tenths, and where the tops of the hillsare in a perfectly flat plane. The hilltops are the actual bearingsurfaces, and the valleys are the lubrication reservoirs. As the two partsslide past each other, the oil does not stay in the valleys, but rathermoves around over the hills from valley to valley by virtue of thecombined effect of the pressure in the valleys and the adhesive andcohesive properties of the oil. In this way, a thin film of lubricant isalways present between the bearing points (hilltops) of the matingsurfaces, and thus the metal surfaces are not actually in contact at all(this is idealized of course)

You cannot achieve this property by grinding, regardless the tolerances ofthe grinding. This is one reason super-precision slideways are often stillhand-scraped, although note that they are precision ground first forflatness, and then scraped for bearing. In the old days, the firstscraping steps were for flatness and alignment. That type of scraping hasall been replaced by modern precision grinding, except for hobbyists andsmall scale machine rebuilders.

But it's not the only option for super-precision ways. Very common thesedays are precision ground metal ways with self-lubricating materials likeTurcite on the sliding member, which eliminates the stiction problem andaddresses the lubrication issue in a different way than traditionaloil-bearing.

And then there's aesthetics. Most people find hand scraping moreattractive. If you had the choice between a hand-scraped and a groundsurface at the same cost, which would you buy? What if the scraped itemwas 2% higher? 10%? 50%? Forty years ago tool manufacturers went toconsiderable lengths to make their tools beautiful. Sadly to many,this is no longer true.

And don't forget performance requirements and economic feasibility. Doesa hobbyist's 6" Atlas need the ultimate in slideway precision anddurability? In beauty? Can it be justified economically? Realisitically,careful milling is adequate for the average 6" Atlas user.

I don't claim this to be the last word on the subject, but I hope it adds

some perspective....

Mark

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Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 06:51:42 -0000From: "mdedlow" <mdedlowx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Subject: Re: Shims and way-grinding

>>>> If they are not scraped how long will they hold their fit?>>> It depends on how well you clean and lube the bed.>>> If you let crud wedge under the carriage and then>>> drag it back and forth, you can have pretty>>> accelerated wear on any soft Iron bed.> You can line one of the surfaces with Turcite. It's used on> many new machines. There's no metal to metal contact.

True, but potentially confusing, inasmuch as it might be interpreted tomean that Turcite eliminates the crud/wear concern, which is not the case.Eliminating metal-to-metal contact doesn't eliminate wear, nor the factthat crud in the ways accelerates wear.

In fact, Turcite is softer than iron and accordingly, wears even faster.So crud in Turcite accelerates wear even more than in iron. New machinesthat use Turcite go to greater lengths to protect against crud (e.g.bellows) than old-style machines did for exactly this reason.

On the plus side however, the wear is on the turcite, which can be moreeasily replaced/rebuilt than the metal side. Turcite has other niceproperties too, like reducing stiction, some shock absorbtion, etc. Butit certainly doesn't eliminate wear.

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:34:32 -0000From: "wjw2000athotmaildotcom" <wjw2000x~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Atlas 6" tear-down

I picked up an old 6" (I think) Atlas bench lathe at an estate saleback in November. The bed is 36" long. Anyway, the prior owner musthave been the original owner. It looks like it was bought in the 40'sor 50's, and never oiled or cleaned. I don't see a lot of wear on thebed, but a lot of little dings and dents. I think the guy used itmostly for turning wood, and a few bronze bushings.

So, I just started tearing it down to clean things up. Anysuggestions for taking care of the the dings and dents in the ways? Idon't think it needs to be scraped since there really isn't much wear.

Also, are parts (like the lead screw, change gears, half-nuts) stillavailable for these lathes?

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:24:00 -0500

From: "Fred & Liz Lusen" <fl.lusenx~xxverizon.net>Subject: Re: Atlas 6" tear-down

You may want to measure the distance from the center of the spindle tothe bed. I do not recall that Atlas ever made the 6" with a 36" bed.I may be wrong.

Fred Lusen

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 15:47:08 -0000From: "outlawmws" <outlawmwsx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Atlas 6" tear-down

I wouldn't worry too much about indentations, The thing you want towatch is the raised areas caused by the dings. I used to take care ofa precision co-ordinatograph, which was a flat bed tool that measuresand cuts high precision artworks for the I.C industry. (I doubt manyare left, computers have taken over.) This is how I maintained theways on that machine.

I would cafully, very carefully, use a soft akansas oil stone to removethe raised areas. Don't let it dig further into the surface. use anew stone that is flat, old ones will have been worn concave and willnot do the job, they will do more damage.

Atempting to remove the indentations completly requires a complete cutevenly across the full length of the ways. Not a job for an amatur.

But that's my limited eXperiance with a specialized tool. Anytoolroom people have any comments? About my sugestion or alternatives?

Outlaw

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 09:59:09 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Atlas 6" tear-down

I'd stone down the peaks that stand proud with a fine stone and leavethe bed at that. Try to keep from hitting all of the bed while you dothis. You can also scrape the area but that can make for little cupswherever you do this. The little holes won't make any difference tothe work produced.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 19:51:31 -0000From: "outlawmws" <outlawmwsx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Atlas 6" tear-down

> You may want to measure the distance from the center of the spindle

> to the bed. I do not recall that Atlas ever made the 6" with a 36"> bed. I may be wrong. Fred Lusen

Fred, My (former) gunsmith had a 6" with a 36" bed. Either Atlas orCraftsman, I misremember which. I noticed it because it was a littlebrother to my 12" Craftsman/Altas, without the power feeds and fewergear choices. A nice hobbyist's machine.

Outlaw

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Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 23:19:38 EDTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Atlas 6" tear-down

I am a ltttle farther down trail in rebuilding my 6 inch Craftsman Atlas.If my experience is any guide the more you look the more you find wrong.I might suggest you contact Clausing/Atlas and order the parts list,catalog and price list. For a nominal sum plus phone call you will be ableto recognize, identify and price (if need be). A complete disassembly, athrough cleaning and evaluation may reveal much that lay hidden beneathyears of neglect and dirt. Caution: It is possible you have a parts lathethat will be worth more as parts to others than the cost of replacementparts will make lathe worth to you. If bed is as you describe it may notbe up to snuff for precise work,but, perfectly ok for less demanding work.The only way to find this out is to let the lathe tell you by giving itsome work to do and seeing how well it does it. If it meets your standardswell and good.

If not get back to the group and describe results obtained and ask what isailing and how to fix it. I am sure you will get several knowledgeableopinions that will not agree 100% but will lead you in the right direction.

Good Luck and welcome. I have two Craftsman/Atlas lathes and(6 & 12) and the little one with all the problems has taught me more andgiven me greater challanges. Makes life a little more interesting totry turning the sow's ear into the silk purse as the old saying goes.

Louis

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 08:23:51 -0400 (EDT)From: Art Breslau <breslaux~xxwatson.ibm.com>Subject: Spindle Q's

Assisting a friend rebuilding a 12" change gear model, The spindle isdeeply scored in several places inside the nose as if square stock wasforced in. What acceptable dimensions would running a #3 MT reamer in

too clean it up be?

Run out is < .005, indicator barley wavers. Thrust nut looks like someone took a pipe wrench to it in the past, tho it came off easy when setscrew was removed.

Timkin bearings are quiet, gave good oiling before trying to rotate. Nowicks in oil cups so it drinks oil, with small amount leaking out at 6o'clock position from front bearing cup. Is this result of too much oilor indication of problem.

Thanks in advance.. ArtB..

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 10:08:43 -0400From: Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD <Rene.Chabannesx~xxwpafb.af.mil>Subject: RE: Spindle Q's

If it were me, and I has access to a #3 Morse taper reamer,I would attempt to remove the high spots only. If runout nearthe spindle was still over a thousandth or so, I'd look intocleaning it up with a boring tool if I did anything at all. Givenaccess to a machine shop, other options occur to me, againassuming I did anything. I don't know how close a given spindletaper hole on these machines should be in the first place.Zero runout would be nice near the spindle, But..... I'd be moreconcerned with chuck runout. That can be addressed much easier.

Rene

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:23:34 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Spindle Q's

Art Breslau wrote:> Assisting a friend rebuilding a 12" change gear model, The spindle is> deeply scored in several places inside the nose as if square stock was> forced in. What acceptable dimensions would running a #3 MT reamer in> too clean it up be?

If the grooves are deep, it would be better to regrind the taper usinghi-spot dye and a known-good master to get the taper correct. You usea toolpost grinder or rig a Dremel or air-powered die grinder to performthat job. You set the taper with the compound rest, it takes a finetouch but is not that hard.

> Timkin bearings are quiet, gave good oiling before trying to rotate. No> wicks in oil cups so it drinks oil, with small amount leaking out at 6> o'clock position from front bearing cup. Is this result of too much oil> or indication of problem.

You need wicks to keep a steady, slow, iol flow. It is just an indicationthe oil is going in all at once. Get some large cotton shoelaces likefor tennis shoes, and cut off a piece.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:30:01 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: RE: Spindle Q's

Art Breslau wrote: > Thanks.. Were these spindles hardened?> Correction on my part, should have read: Run out is .0005, indicator> barely wavers. Measured against register.

Wait a minute! This is meaningless, in reference to the spindle taper! Youshould use a dial indicator (a dial TEST indicator works better) inside thespindle tape to check the taper quality. You can also check the side of agood quality center just past the spindle nose to see if it sits well.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 18:28:03 +0000From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: RE: Spindle Q's

I wouldn't mess with it. I might use some hi-spot dye and see if there areany ridges at the edge of the grooves, and remove them with fine sandpaper.Otherwise, unless there are a lot of grooves, and centers don't hold well,I'd leave it alone.

The spindles are NOT hardened, to the best of my knowledge. They are madeof a fairly hard steel; there may be some light heat treating that wasdone, as the Timken bearing seats seem to be fairly hard (I had to stoneoff some ridges made when grit was dragged onto the seating OD of thespindle when changing bearings) but I don't believe they are what isnormally called hardened.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 20:59:10 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Spindle Q's

The best idea is NOT to use a reamer at all. The reamer will bounce offhigh spots, and try to put low spots opposite them. Not good. Andgetting it accurate enough to not run eccentric may be an issue.

Find the high spots, and stone them down to level using something like astone off a brake hone. Stay off any good areas. Highspot blue, orpermanent felt marking pen on a good taper like a center will tell youwhen you have all the raised areas stoned down.

Grinding the whole taper correct can also be done, if you have the abilityto grind to an acceptable accuracy and to the depth required inside thespindle. Often the compound travel is not enough to get down to the end ofthe taper in one pass, and getting the angle right can be a problem also,unless your indicator has long reach.

The low spots, while not desirable, are not your problem. High spots keeptools from seating, make centers run eccentric, etc.

To test for general runout, mount the indicator on the headstock (not thebed) and arrange the measuring tip to run on the inside of the taper about1/4 inch or a bit more in from the mouth. This should tell you if it gotbent, pouched out, or just gouged.

Jerry

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Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:35:50 EDTFrom: Sagebush9x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Spindle Q's

Mine was similarly buggered in the spindle taper-looked like somebody rana boring bar into it. I borrowed a #3 Morse reamer & VERY carefullycleaned up the taper, w/the end of the reamer in a tailstock center. Cameout good-holds the center sleeve w/no perceptible runout.

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Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 05:48:25 -0000From: "rweersing1947" <rweersingx~xxworldnet.att.net>Subject: Re: Carriage saddle question

"gerry_brwn" wrote: > bought an Atlas QC 54 and can participate.

When I take off the carriage I usually take the tail stock off, take theright lead screw bracket off, engage the carriage lead screw feed andcrank the carrage to the right to pull the lead screw out, disengagethe carriage lead screw feed and pull the lead screw out to the right,then crank the carriage to the right and pull it off the right end of

the ways. It usually takes me about 5 min and I take it off often forcleaning. Hope that helps.

Bob

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Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:41:54 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: 109 stuff

Well, I don't think (having had one) that the 109 are worth heroicefforts to restore. That said, a few ideas:

1) Bent spindles are common. New spindles are makeable. In fact, you CANmake a new spindle on the 109, using the bent spindle you have! The onlyissue is the woodruff key, and that can be cobbled.Key is to turn your own spindle center in place.Rather than try to make a 0MT taper, I would drill and tap a short rod forthe spindle thread. Drill and tap from the side for a rod to use as a dogdriver, then screw the driver rod in and the whole thing on the spindlenice and tight. Remove the driver rod temporarily.Then set the compound to the half-angle, and work a 60 degree point ontoyour rod piece, taking care to start so you won't cut it off the end ofthe spindle as you cut the taper.The resulting center is perfectly on-center for your machine, provided youdon't take it off.A new spindle can now be turned on centers to the OD profile, and withcare, worked down to a smooth 0.550 diameter on the running bearing areaswith fine single-cut file, etc. Either leave enough stock for a pointycenter on the nose, or not, if you want to drill.Once the setscrew flat is cut, you need a key. Drilling several holes andfiling with needle files can get you there, with care and time. OR, justdrill several holes, insert pins, and file to straight sides and 1/16height.A pain to file the slot, and not nearly as good with pins, better to begfor some milling elsewhere to put in the key.

Once the new spindle is installed, you can finish your nose center, or tryto form a good taper for a thru hole and taper seat. I would do the nosecenter, leaving enough for several turn-downs as it wears.

I made one on a 10" Logan with milling attachment. complete with keyway,thru hole and 0MT socket, but you have to accept some lack of facilitiesif you make one on the 109. It wll take just short of forever, due tolight cuts, but you can do it.

2) Chucks can be had special from both Sherline and Taig, for 1/2-20,unless you decide as I did to make it with a 3/4-16 nose to fit standardfrom the same sources.

3) Unthreaded chucks can be fitted using backplates turned on the 109. Iknow, I did it.

4) Threading gears are same as Atlas 6", they are the same stock numbersfrom Sears, although you will be going to Clausing.

5) Good luck with the half-nuts, dunno what to suggest except brazing upand re-cutting thread on another machine. Or epoxy, although I don't thinkit will work, due to oil in the pores of the iron.

6) Most parts and accessories you make yourself. Several articles in HomeShop Machinist and/or Machinist's Workshop have plans for stock parts andaccessories. More plans are in the two AAdocs files.

The kicker is, I think I would sell it as parts and use the money towardsa small SouthBend, Logan, or Atlas Craftsman.

Jerry

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 18:41:12 -0000From: "markzemanek" <markzemanekx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Clausing now sells plastic!

Yep, that's right. I ordered a gib for my cross slide last week; itarrived today, and it's made of what appears to be nylon!!! Theycharged me $12 plus another $5 to ship. I'm very disappointed. Would you:

a) send it back?b) just go ahead and use it?

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 13:56:53 -0500From: jmark.vanscoterx~xxamd.comSubject: RE: Clausing now sells plastic!

Use it. Modern plastics are often very impressive.

Mark V.S. in Austin, TX

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 12:37:33 -0700 (PDT)From: Don Smith <airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Clausing now sells plastic!

I purchased a gib for the compound on my 10" Atlas and also received whatappears to be some type of nylon material. I put it in my compound andjust as I thought, it`s a piece of crap. I left it in and tightened down

the gibs adjustment screws after centering the compound, so at the momentI`m unable to use my compound until I can either locate a "real" gib ormake one.

Regards,Don Smith

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:00:38 -0400From: David Beierl <dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net>Subject: RE: Clausing now sells plastic!

>Use it. Modern plastics are often very impressive.

But not this time. I put a steel gib in my milling adapter and itstiffened it up amazingly. The plastic gib is a dumb mistake onClausing's part.

david

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Date: Mon, 13 May 2002 16:46:48 -0400From: "Ebower" <ebowerx~xxlcsys.net>Subject: Re: Clausing now sells plastic!

You paid for it. It will cost you more to ship back. My 3950 (1977 squarehead version) came with nylon gibs and they work fine. May be I shouldstart charging more for the gibs I sell. Made of either brass or steel.

Earlbower machine

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Date: Tue, 14 May 2002 09:16:18 EDTFrom: Sagebush9x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Clausing now sells plastic!

Plastic gibs were OEM on my 101.28990 12", so don't be too hard onClausing for selling you one-that said, I made new ones out of brass, &it helped the rigidity noticeably.

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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2002 00:34:48 -0000From: "chris111148198" <cmiller231x~xxaol.com>Subject: Re: Atlas Gears, Vibration

Today i called up Clausing to order some new gears for my th-42 ,I guess is a 10-f . Some of them were getting worn prettybad , was afraid that I might break them and then really have aexpensive mess. At the same time i ordered 5 more to make a completeset for metric threading. So, I asked the lady why a 60 tooth gear

was $9.29 and a 54tooth was $29.45 . Well it kind of susprised me butshe said that the 60t gear was old stock that was left over from 1981-1982 when they quit production and the 54 t was made recently at2002 prices and also she added they had to make new patterens .(Iwould have expected that she would have said , I have no idea , ijust do as i'am told ) So , I'am posting this so that if anybodyneeds any , they might think of getting them before existing suppliesrun out. I got a bunch of gears when i bought this lathe , did notknow if they were left over or weather the lathe had been convertedover from a manual gear change. Does anybody know how to tell thedifference? I have a model 1500-1570 series quick change gear box.I have had a vibration problem pretty much all the time since igot this lathe . Went through the all the past posts re: vibrationand chatter, Read and learned a lot about the little things thatcan snowball into big vibrations checked all but to no realsuccess . So i said yesterday it is fix it or sell it or part it out.The first thing that i did was check te gibs as once in a while iwould see movement betwen the cross slide and the saddle( Bysquirting oil on slides) when cutting , I would readjust gib to thepoint of hardly able to move croos slide to get rid of thiscondition. What i discovered is that there was no clearance on thesharp female corner left side of the saddle dovetail also the gibws almost razor sharp also. I checked this corner interference withpressin blue , I filed the cross slide and gib to a .o40-.050 flatThe compound dovetails looked a lot better , they had a littleradius on them filed lightly on them also and rechecked withbluing. The next that i found was that thecircuular hole in whatthe atlas book refers to as the upper swivel # 10-302 was machinedthrough to the dovetail ways , this was ok but the male circulardovetail was too high , it came thr=ough the dove tail ways .Stoneing the ways of 10-302 i was hitting the top of the malecircular dovetail of 10-301. So i filed the top of male circulardovetail to gain clearance . The third thing was the set sdrs. on the9-109 race that supports the counter shaft were not thight enough,this was my fault as i had tightehed them previously and was afraidof thightening them too tight as deforming them .i tightened themquite snug and it relieved a lot of the vibration. I guees it shouldnot susprise me as Atlas went to the trouble of balancing the pulliesi guess that vibration was paramount on their minds . The lady thati bought this lathe off of was the orginal owner , her husband diedso i'am quite sure that this machine was not remachined , It wasobovious that he was too much of a butcher when it came tomachineing. So now i can take .040 cut on 1.0 crs with no chatter ,Still would like to get it a little better. using Phase II quick change

Guess i went on long enough Chris

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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 00:08:10 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 618 shims

n5fee wrote:> I am putting my Atlas 618 back together after having the bed ground.> I am trying to figure out how much shim I need under the front and> back of the carriage. I have been using small pieces of shim stock

> to see how much I need in each location.

You generally don't shim under the carriage, but between the carriageand the apron, to align the leadscrew half nuts.

> I have figured out pretty> close what each thickness should be and I now need to make several> shims with the correct outline and mounting holes to install.> I have been able to carefully cut out the correct shape but I am> having trouble making the bolt holes in the .005 thick brass shim> material. Does anybody know a trick to punch a clean hole for a #10> screw in the thin brass shim material?

one way is to drill the right size hole in two steel sheets. Drill 2other holes some distance away and bolt them together with a piece ofthe shim stock between them. Now, you have a clamp with aligned holesin them. mark the shim stock, position the clamp over the mark andsqueeze the assembly in a vice such that the hole is still exposed.Now, you can easily drill the brass without shredding it. You will stillhave some burr at the edge, but it should be easy to sand or file it down.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 11:15:27 -0400From: Alex Barrie <alexbarriex~xxhomeroom.ca>Subject: Re: 618 shims

try a hollow punch on a block of metal or hardwood

Alex1965 Myford ML7 1944 Myford "M" and a barely usable Atlas Mill

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Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 10:39:33 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: 618 shims

Considering the thickness, even a paper punch will easily do thatthickness. Better is to make up a punch for the size you want by usinga pair of plates with a hole the size you want to punch. The two platesare aligned with a pair of pins and then you drop a pin through thepunch hole and just pop the hole out. I might note that the platesshould be good steel and, if you plan on a lot of holes, harden thebottom plate and the pin. The pin should also be cut at a slant so itshears rather than pushes the whole hole out. Lastly, a quick tap witha hammer will flatten out the sheet after the hole has been punched.This will knock down any high spots from the operation.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Thu, 8 Aug 2002 12:18:06 +0100From: "Ernest Lear" <Ernestx~xxelear2.fsnet.co.uk>Subject: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

Can any one help me with this? I'm trying to remove my Timken BearingSpindle from the head of an Atlas 10F Lathe without much success.

The following bits have been removed: -The 2 guards over the gears, the rear collar (9-32), Spindle gear(9-100-32), Spacer (10A-6), Dust cover (10A-3). The 2 setscrewsI have also removed from the collar left of the pulleys (10A-89) andin the large spindle gear (10-241).

After placing two pieces of wood to stop the spindle assembly movingright in front of the large spindle gear and behind the head casting,I tried to tap the spindle from left to right with a piece of woodbetween the end of the spindle and the hammer.

I'm using a 2lb hammer and so far no way will it move. Can someone whohas done this before, tell me how big a hammer or how hard to hit it.I just don't want to damage the spindle or any thing else around it.

RegardsErnest

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Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 13:38:35 -0000From: "latheplaya" <derfx~xxdovco.com>Subject: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

If memory serves, move everything inside(collar, pulley, bull gear) to theleft and remove the key under the bull gear. There is just enough room toremove the key with a pair of needle-nose pliers. You can also pry out the10A-3 dust cover from the right side. What happens is the No. 15 woodruffkey won't pass through the 10A-7 baffle. Mine came out with the 10A-9Cbearing stuck to the spindle. If your 10A-11C bearing is seized to thespindle, you may want to place the whole thing in the hot sun and pack theleft side of the spindle bore with ice. You want the bearing warm(expanded) and the spindle cool (contracted). You should be able to driveit out with a 24oz hammer and a block of wood without too much exertion.

Cheers,Derf

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Date: Thu, 08 Aug 2002 15:45:09 -0000From: "jeeceeca" <jeeceecax~xxyahoo.ca>Subject: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

Ernest, look on the 990-359 step pulley for a setscrew there for oilpurpose. Remove that setscrew, sometime some previous owners screwed ittoo far. You have to slide (bull gear) #10-241 oposite to the tailstock.On my Atlas QC54, the 10A-7 baffle have a notch on north westposition to permit removing of the spindle with the woodruff key ifkey is seized. The bearing 10A-9C have to be free and the setscrew onthe 10-241 bull gear removed. Think I will help.

Charles Atlas QC54 Canada

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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 07:20:20 -0400From: Ronald Thibault <thib9564x~xxbellsouth.net>Subject: Re: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

>move everything inside(collar, pulley, bull gear) to the left and[SNIP......] You should be able to drive it out with a 24oz hammer>and a block of wood without too much exertion. Cheers, Derf

Just a note: Use light taps and slowly move the spindle, do not beheavy handed!

Ron Thibault

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Date: Fri, 09 Aug 2002 13:19:19 -0000From: "tomin130" <tjenksx~xxaccucom.net>Subject: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

"Ernest Lear" wrote: > Can any one help me with this?

So far so good. Everything you've done is just as the Atlas manual says.

Maybe this will help. The setscrew in the large gear was tightenedenough to raise ridges on the spindle that are interfering with theinner diameter of the gear. Also, the spindle key may have beenjammed into the gear's keyslot by a crash. You will have to beat onthe left end of the spindle a bit with the hammer/wood block, but itshould come out. Make sure, as suggested earlier, that you removethe key as it comes out of the gear or align it with the notch in the10A-7 baffle if there is one. After you get the spindle out, grinddown the high spots until the gear is a nice sliding fit.

When I reassembled mine, I cut a short piece of 3/16 round brass rodto go between the setscrew and the spindle. This should preventdamage to the spindle. The only function of the setscrew is toprevent side-to-side (axial) movement of the gear and it doesn't haveto be any more than snug. The key carries all of the torque. HTH.

Tom Jenks

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2030 11:40:17 -0500From: "Microsoft mail Server" <jts4545x~xxnetzero.net>

Subject: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

First contact Clausing Service Center at joldsx~xxclausing-industrial.comRequest Clausing Engineering Dept. be contacted for factory spindle andbearing removal instructions specific to your model lathe. The instructionsabout using wooden wedges iare only general instructions, and may not applyto your lathe . I found this out for my model 3950 Atlas 6 inch (MarkII inBritish classification) lathe. These wooden wedges instructions did notapply. I prevented a lot of damage by finding this out first!

Also go to www.timken.comThey have lots of free literature on bearing removal, installation and care.

These bearings are in tight. In my case I had to get a 20 lb lead hammer.This thing is the size of a sledgehammer and hard to control. The soft leadis supposed to prevent damage. Practice hammering on something of no valuefirst, to build skill. One miss, and you may destroy your headstock!.Lighter hammers have little effect. I tried a 4lb steel engineers hammer tono effect! Even with the 20 lb lead hammer, it was slow work.

You will to make some kind of wood box to catch the spindle as it isremoved. Otherwise it may fall on the lathe bed and damage it severely. HTH

James Sprott

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Date: Fri, 9 Aug 2002 22:26:26 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Removing a Spindle from a 10F Lathe

> If a hammer is what is needed then the heavier the better> (as far as inertia goes).> Brute force is usually not the best alternative unless> the next destination for the intended victim is the scrap heap.

FWIW, Logan recommends a "hammer" to disassemble the spindle. But thehammer is to be wood, which will not deliver race-brinnelling impacts tothe bearings. Use of a regular hammer is best followed by the replacementof bearings. Yeah, yeah, roller bearings can take a lot of abuse, sure,that's right...I still would not use a hammer.

Jerry

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Date: Sun, 25 Aug 2002 18:35:13 -0400From: "Gary Parrish" <gparrishx~xxmindspring.com>Subject: Re: Removing headstock pulley on late model Atlas 6"?

>>>Anyone know if there are instructions (or have instructions) onremoving the headstock pulley/backgear on the late model Atlas 6"(square shaped headstock model)? TIA <<<

I don't have the parts list before me, so I don't know the correct namefor the parts but here goes:Remove the headstock cover. (Naturally).Remove the drive belt. Disengage the back gears.Remove the retaining lock ring that fits inside the locking collar andin a groove around the spindle using lock ring pliers.Remove the locking collar BEING VERY CAREFUL NOT TO LOSE THE SPRING LOADEDDETENT BALL AND THE KEY. Remove the second (inside) lock ring.Slide the Pulley/Gear off of the spindle. As they say - reassemble inreverse order! Watch out for that spring loaded detent ball.

I hope you do not have to replace the pulley/gear assembly as I just did.It was about $160 from Clausing, but it did appear to be made of bettermaterial.

Gary

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Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 00:24:46 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Dinged bed ways

mhannah100x~xxaol.com wrote:>>I just bought a model 101 Craftsman lathe to replace one that I lostin a fire. I probably paid WAY too much for it, but I thought it was inperfect condition until I got it home and took a closer look. The waysof the bed have some dings in them, where it looks as if it was used asan anvil. They're not major damage but need to be massaged a bit sinceI can feel high places while rubbing my finger across the spots. Wouldsome light, cafeful filing followed by fine sandpaper be the appropriatefix or is there a better way to repair this *rash*? <<

Arrgh! Don't use a FILE! Get two bench stones or small sharpening stones.Put light oil on them, and rub them together for a minute, flipping themend for end every few rubs. With a little care, you will end up with twopretty flat stones. (Okay, purists, I know that using only two stones candevelop concave and convex surfaces, but we're just trying to get localsmoothness, here.)

Now, take one of the stones (fine side, if they are combination stones)and very lightly rub it over the spot, with a film of oil on the stone.Clean the bed with a cloth and observe the pattern the stone made on thebed. If it appears to be taking off a little material around the dimple,then you have a good match of the stone to the bed, repeat until the

rubbed area widens a bit.

Now, you can take magic marker, or Prussian Blue pigment (alsosold as Hi-Spot) and wipe it over the entire area. If you have a knownflat object, like a precision-ground machinist's square, you can lightlyrub this over the area, and see where the magic marker is wiped off.

That indicates the remaining local high spot. You can repeat the processuntil there is no detectable high spot. The low spot at the center ofthe ding can't be fixed easily, but will not lift the carriage and thuscause errors.

Dropped lathe chuck keys are a frequent cause of this sort of damage.Dropped chucks can do it too, of course.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:14:41 +0200From: "Guillermo Contreras" <latheworksx~xxteleline.es>Subject: Re: Cross feed nut

I would not buy. Not that there is a problem with this its just that thereare SO many alternatives to this that it would be a waist of $50 thatcould be spent on something else...

Several options have been presented and recently I tried one published inMEW mainly, boring out the inside of the nut leaving just 1 1/2 (or less)threads at each end. Drilll though the mounting spiggot untill you reachinside the newly bored section. Grease the crossfeed screw and screw thenut on up to the half of the screw. Before you cast the material, heatup the nut/screw assembly.

Hold the assembly as best as you can with the drilled spiggot facing upand using high temp ceramic, creat a funnel round the spiggot and closeof both ends. What you are looking for is to creat a funnel in which tocast in low temp melting metal in a safe manner; you can find low tempmetal in many spec. cats. such as Micromart. This material wears verywell and its easy to work with; ideal for this sort of repair.

Pour in the molten material through the drilled spiggot and let it set.It's important to use a low temp. material that will not shrink when itsolidifies. Once cooled down, try to loosen the nut; it will take ablow or two using a soft Nylon mallet but you will be happy to disc thatthere is no slop at all.

I have used this system on all my repairs, its easy quick and safe. Nospecial melting setups are needed.

All this said, I am now in the process of replacing the entire Atlascross slide with a T slotted cross slide sold by Metal Lathes Acc. andhave decided to use the Myford setup i.e. it uses an Acme right handscrew of correct pitch. This will mean that the nut will have to be

mounted where the collar assembly goes now; it will be a 2 sections totake up any backlash and eventual wear. I have cast a cross slidebracket similar to the Myford to hold the collar and handle, all of thisruns in axial bearings very smooth indeed.There are many advantages to this system. Will keep you posted!

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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 00:03:11 -0500From: Stan Stocker <skstockerx~xxadelphia.net>Subject: Re: tailstock taper cleanup

selder_97205 wrote:> Does anyone know of a good way to clean up the taper in my craftsman> 12x36 lathe's tailstock? I believe that it is a 2MT.> I am thinking that maybe there is a special reamer. I have a few minor> scratches inside and am not sure if I even should bother. Thanks, Steve

If a nice clean MT2 center seats with a nice "plonk", and stays in placefirmly enough (when firmly pressed into the ram) you need to retract theram to allow the tailstock screw to pop the center out it's fine. Burrsor pips tend to be a problem, minor scratches usually don't effectthings much if at all. There is a lot of contact area in a morse taper.

If the center doesn't seat in the ram nicely, you use an MT2 finishingreamer. The import ones from Enco were made in Macedonia when I boughtmy reamers and have been very nice, can't swear their current offeringsare still as good.

Finishing reamers look like a normal tapered reamer, just in this casethe taper is MT2. There are also roughing reamers for Morse tapers,these have steps in the cutting edges rather than a continuous cuttingedge. Enco sent me an MT3 roughing once in error, it just isn't one ofthose deals where turning gentler will make a finish cut. Had to sendit back, they sent me the correct item. Though I'd mention this to avoidyou getting messed up should Enco make this mistake if you order one!

Taper finishing reamers need lots of heavy oil, firm to heavy pressureas there is a lot of cutting area if you aren't just cleaning off littlebumps and warts, and must (like all reamers) never be turned backwards.Reversing a reamer tends to chip the edges as they are unsupportedwhen turned the wrong way.

Remove the absolute minimum material required to get a nice seating ofthe center, even if this means leaving a few scratches or grooves in thetaper. Removing just a few thou will allow a center to seat deeper inthe ram by a noticable amount. Shallow tapers are quite sensitivepositionally, a 12 thou increase in diameter moves the center about .1inch deeper into the ram, so don't get excited when reaming a taper :-)Most tapers I've cleaned up have only needed a few turns of the reamerto take a center nicely.

Cheers,Stan

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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 10:02:49 ESTFrom: AtlasTV48x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: tailstock taper cleanup

I've used spray on contact cement (because it is thinner) to glue emmerycloth to a taper and turned it with a chuck in the spindle.

Dave...

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NOTE TO FILE: There are proponents of using reamers and others who arguethat hand use of a reamer may do more harm in removing concentricity ifnot done precisely.

Commercial Morse taper socket cleaners are perhaps less aggressive inmetal removal than the reamers.

For a Morse taper arbor shank to enter properly, you really need to worryonly about the bumps, not the scratches or pits, in the Morse socket or onthe shank. A few burrs or bumps might easily be removed by scraping thosespots without any danger of misaligning the taper.

Since scratching or galling is most likely caused originally when theMorse arbor slips within the socket, some cautious old time methods ofprevention of slippage involved:

- always removing all lube from the shank and socket first,- optionally wrapping the Morse arbor shank with a single layer (NO OVERLAP) of cartridge paper (thin writing paper) before placing the arbor snugly into the socket.

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Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2002 20:03:23 ESTFrom: cmiller231x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Vibration update

Hi group, just wanted to let everybody know what i found with the vibrationproblem with my 10f-421) bent jack shaft ( bent .010)Replaced with piece of Thompson shafting2) jack shaft pulley bent , rebushed it and recut pulley v's on arbor3) circular dovetail on cross slide bottoming out in compound , cut .020 offof top of circular dovetail, did not really need .020 but wanted clearance.4) sharp corner of cross slide gib interfering in dovetail of cross slide ,filed .03 flat on gib.I also replaced both belts with link belts . Bolt that appliespressure to motor was missing , Still not sure if i intalled bolt correctly

to apply pressure to motor , but motor is tight now,I can now take .80 perside on ! 1/2 o-1 , no vibration ! Not sure of speed as i have to make newmotor pulley as orginal was missing , Had a 4 " on for this test ( Back gear, 2nd lowest speed)( using tailstock)Turning light blue chip , I'am HAPPY!Could see no point in pushing it any farther .All in all quite happy now ,IMHO definately feel the interference in thecircular dovetail to cross slide and the interference in the gib to crossslide dovetail were factory defects , Don't know how much they contributedto vibration but they Defineately showed up with pressin blue .I know i don't contribute as much as i should, Hope that this will help somebody else . I want to also thank the group for all their input

Chris

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Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 02:03:57 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: shaft bearings run out (craftsman 101.07403)?

In a message dated Mon, 25 Nov 2002 18:17:17 -0600, Rodent writes:<< Most real lathes have a standard taper in the spindle -- I think the 6"Atlas is MT #2 and the 10" Atlas is a MT #3. Find an old wore-out drill orreamer with the same taper as the spindle and use it to check for slop. >>

Also, the 6" lathes have a spindle through bore just over 1/2", on thelarger models it's just over 3/4". Get yourself a piece of round stockaccording to the size of the through bore - long enough that when it justextends out the tail of the spindle it will stick out the nose by as muchas the lever arm you want to use. This was suggested as possibly two feetfor the 10" lathe.

Setup your dial indicator so that it bears on the colar of the spindlenose. Note the DI reading. Then gently lift up on the bar as you watchthe DI, when it stops at a new reading note the reading. Might as welltry pushing down on the bar to see if the reading changes from theneutral reading. Now reset the DI in a horizontal mode and go through theprocedure again, pushing the bar to the rear, then pulling it to the front.

Don't yank on the bar, and you're not trying to lift the lathe with thebar, you don't have to bend the bar, all you're trying to do is determine

how much free motion there is in the spindle bearings. On any of thelathes using roller bearings there should be *very* little free motion,almost none. The babbit and oilite spindles will have a bit more but ifyou run through this procedure and are concerned, don't panic. Reportyour procedure and results to the group and get some knowledgable feedback.

AnthonyBerkeley, Calif.

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 06:24:20 -0600From: "Randy Pedersen" <rpedersen1x~xxcox.net>Subject: Re: Re: shaft bearings run out (craftsman 101.07403)?The saga continues

Jon: to check the play in the Timken bearings you don't need to applyenough force to deflect the bed. Just enough to over come the play inthe bearings.

This is from the Atlas headstock spindle adjustment instructions.

1. Slide collar L against shoulder of spindle and lock in place. Movepulley-gear assembly against collar and slide large spindle gear D againstpulley and tighten set screw in gear. There should be a slight amount ofclearance between the pulley and the large spindle gear to permit pulleyto turn freely.

2. Tighten collar B until all lateral (end) and radial (side) play hasbeen removed from spindle. Check by tapping spindle back and forth withthe hand. Do not tighten too tightly -- spindle should rotate freely.

3. Pre-load spindle bearings by continuing to tighten the threaded collarB approximately 1/16 turn (equivalent to two spindle gear teeth). Thereshould be a slight drag felt as the spindle is rotated by hand. This isimportant because as spindle and bearings warm up, the spindle expandslaterally approximately .002". Tighten set screw in collar B.

Randy

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Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2002 05:46:31 -0000From: "John" <Hobeauxx~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Thanks for help on 101.07301 and new question

Thanks to the ones who helped this new member with the cross-feed nutproblem. I located new nut at Clausing. In the meantime I usedJBWeld to form new threads on the old one for now. I am amazed athow well it came out. Probably won't last like brass, but I can doit again if needed. BTW the area code has changed for Clausing. Thenumber is now 574-533-0371.

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Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 21:44:57 -0000From: "Nick Martello" <martello_nickx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: L3-58 Gear Bracket

I have a Craftsman Atlans 1934 12 X 48. Well, I thought everythingsurvived the move from Atlanta to Ct. but no joy. Starting up mylathe tonight for the first time, I noticed the gears wouldn't move.I just thought they were out of adjustment. However, I discovered thegear bracket had a crack right on the end of the long finger. (L3058is the two fingered version, not the three finger.)

I have posted two pictures under photos/12" lathes/Craftsman. One calledL3-58 and the other showing a close up of the crack. Needless to say, thereis no way to tighten up the square head bolt that holds the upper gear asthe broken end of the finger opens and lets the square head bolt turn.I assume this is a cast part and can't be welded. Correct? If it can't bewelded, does any one have one for sale? Would Clausing have one?

Thanks,Nick in Middletown, Ct.

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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 00:13:22 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: L3-58 Gear Bracket

Are you certain that you can't substitute the three slot version? I knowthat the locking bolt for it goes at the back of the headstock, is therealready a hole there? I ask about this because I know that on the 6"lathe the banjo is locked with a pinch bolt around the end of the leadscrew bearing, a very unsatisfatory arrangement. In the Modeltec serieson building a QC box for the 6" lathe the author provided a banjo similarto the three slot one for the 12" lathe. I don't remember how he provideda locking bolt but it was in the same area as the one for the three armbanjo on the 12" lathe. Does anybody have the Modeltec articles that theycould scan he page that shows the banjo and post it in the photo section,possibly under 6" lathes? If you do so let us know about it and where youput it.

<< Needless to say, there is no way to tighten up the square head boltthat holds the upper gear as the broken end of the finger opens and letsthe square head bolt turn. >>

For a short term remedy you might try drilling a hole across the bracketvery near the end. Put a small machine screw through and pinch ittogether. You might lose a small length of the slot but you don't oftenneed the very end.

<< I assume this is a cast part and can't be welded. Correct? >>

I've seen cast iron welded. Not by me but it can be done. Ask aroundlocally.

<< Would Clausing have one? >> Fairly likely.

AnthonyBerkeley, Calif.

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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 08:44:35 -0500From: Chabannes Rene N Contr ASC/YCD <Rene.Chabannesx~xxwpafb.af.mil>Subject: RE: L3-58 Gear Bracket

I just looked this part up on the Sears site and it is what I thought itis. It's made of cast iron (or similar) and can be brazed (not silver).Since you ask the question, I assume you aren't familiar with brazing.

If it was mine, I'd file a notch at the crack on two or three sides toallow surface area for the braze to hold. Leave enough in the centerto maintain the current shape/dimensions of the part. Then get someoneto braze it for you. In fact, I'd check with them before doing anyfiling/grinding. Once brazed, you can file the braze back to the original,or close shape. I wouldn't weld something this small.

If they should weld it, make sure they normalize it afterwards - otherwise,it will break like glass right next to the weld. Brazing is probably best.It's a simple fix I'd try before buying or making anything.

Rene N. Chabannes (Titan)ASC/YC - Production Operations C-17 SPO, WPAFB, OH937-255-1042(DSN 785-1042)

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Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2002 15:00:33 -0000From: "elperkins2003" <sperkinsx~xxcinci.rr.com>Subject: Re: L3-58 Gear Bracket

Rene, I second the thought. I have bronze brazed (not welded) cast iron onseveral occasions with an oxy-acetylene torch and had excellent results. Iused fluxed bronze rod that is available at Home Depot. The technique canbe used to repair half nuts, cast iron gears and all kinds of cast ironparts that might otherwise end up in the junk pile. I have also brazedall kinds of wierd stuff to cast iron C-clamps to make special jigs.

Perk in Cincinnati

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Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 02:31:01 -0800 (PST)From: gauge-onex~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: L3-58 Gear Bracket

This part is cast iron and can be welded... just use wire or rod that isintended for cast iron. When I got my lathe the gear quadrant had fourwelds on it... sloppily done, but it was strong enough. Another of mylathes had a cracked quadrant. That one I silver brazed... afterward Ire-blackened it and you could hardly see the joint. My current Atlas10" is perfect and I am very careful... those quadrants are fragile!

If welded up cracked parts bug you, quadrants/gear brackets do come upon eBay now and then... you can repair yours until you find an unspoiledone (I'm pretty sure they're not available from Clausing anymore...)

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NOTE TO FILE: WELDING QUADRANTS OR GEAR BRACKETS.Another posting with detailed how-to is found below on 14 Sep 2005.

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Date: Fri, 06 Dec 2002 22:58:58 -0000From: "brewerpaul" <brewerpaulx~xxaol.com>Subject: Help fix stupid mistake on my 6" !

How dumb can I get? I was turning a piece on my Sears 6", and leftsomething in the path of the carriage feed crank. Turned my back, hearda sickening sound, followed by a sharp snap.

Cut to the chase- I took the carriage off ( not easy) and found abroken off tooth on the pinion that meshes with the rack under theways. I took off the bearing that carries that pinion, along withanother one on the other side. From the Atlas manual, it looks likethe smaller( broken) pinion has the shaft attached, and the otherpinion is pressed onto it. I have found the appropriate parts in theClausing catalog ( dang! it's Friday night , and I'll have to waittil Monday to order them).

My problem right now is that I can' seem to separate the twopinions. Tried driving the shaft out of the larger gear with a pinpunch, but I don't want to risk damaging the undamaged gear or thebearing. Any ideas how to get them apart?

As long as I have the carriage apart, is there anyhthing else Ishould replace? I thought about the split/half nut, but at $50 ish,I think I'll wait. E-mail response greatly appreciated. Thanks a lot.

Paul(brewerpaulx~xxaol.com)

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Date: Sat, 7 Dec 2002 00:34:13 +0100From: "Guillermo Contreras" <latheworksx~xxteleline.es>

Subject: Re: Help fix stupid mistake on my 6" !

Paul, I had the exact same problem with my 12" Atlas but I was not the oneto make this mistake as it came like this when I purchased it 2nd hand.I tried everything but with no result. It then occurred to me to hold thepart by the larger undamaged pinion (use copper strip for protection) andslightly faced the other end (offending pinion).

This seemed to correct any slight "riveting" action that the end of theshaft could be producing as a result of deformation during the pressing ofthe pinions. After this, the parts came apart very easily; they also wentback together very tightly when the new pinion came in. Beware, thesepinions are not keyed, they are pressed on to the squared end of the shaft!

On my lathe, all these parts were steel and it did not take me long todiscover the horrific results of a catastrophic crash suffered by theprevious owner who left his lathe unattended; take note, never leave alathe unattended whilst taking a cut!

Rgds

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Date: Fri, 6 Dec 2002 18:33:24 ESTFrom: JMartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Help fix stupid mistake on my 6" !

<< is there anyhthing else I should replace? >>

While things are apart, if you don't want to spring for new half nuts,I'd at least pull them out and clean them well. Use a dental pick to getdown into the threads - chips and oil can really get packed in there.

If the shaft the handwheel is on is a sloppy fit in the carriage, I wouldconsider correcting that. I don't recall if there is a bushing in theapron, but think there probably isn't. Might not be a bad idea to boreout the apron and install a bushing there.

John Martin

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Date: Sat, 07 Dec 2002 00:45:58 -0000From: speedphoto300 <speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Help fix stupid mistake on my 6" !

If you buy new half nuts from Clausing be aware that the onesavailable now (part number M6-12A) are wider than the plain M6-12variety, .750" instead of .5", if your half nuts are the narrowerones than either get the M6-13A guide or mill out the guide to fit.

I'm glad they increased the length of the nuts, should make them lastlonger. The half nuts themselves are only $16, you usually don't needthe other parts.

Joe

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 20:53:59 -0600From: "Paul Siegert" <pgs1x~xxairmail.net>Subject: RE: Spindle damage questions [SPINDLE REMOVAL]

Go to the Atlas Lathe Site (www.atlas-press.com and print the Tech Notefor removing the spindle and follow it carefully, it works. I removed thespindle from my Craftsman 12x30 last week to replace the spindle pulleyassembly and their tech note was excellent. Make sure you get all the setscrews loosened before trying to drive the spindle out, and when you put apiece of wood over the back of the spindle as suggested in the tech note,make it's thick enough, and hit it square to absorb the blow of your brassor dead blow hammer to avoid buggering the threads on the back end of thespindle. Only other place I had to stop and think was on removing the dustcovers over the bearings that are a tight press fit. After cleaning thingsup, reinstalling was much easier than taking it apart, except for thosedust covers, which I didn't want to dent or mar, and if you are notcareful, and get them started crooked, you might have to ding them up todrive them into a seated, straight position.

Paul

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:39:29 ESTFrom: CaptonZapx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Spindle damage questions

mlhannahx~xxcharter.net writes:>When rotating the spindle the bearings are not rough feeling but I read>somewhere that bearings can be damaged by pounding on the spindle. This>one has definitely been pounded on and might have damaged bearings. I>want to take it apart to check them out. Model # 101.28910. Mike Hannah

Hie thee down to your local nut and bolt store, and tell then you want apiece of 5/8ths in NF grade 5 all thread, 2 or 3 fender washers and acouple of nuts. Find a hack saw, and go stand in front of your lathe. Now,place the all thread through the head stock, and ask yourself "if I wereto put a piece of pipe, large enough for the headstock to slip through,on here, and a nut and washer on here, could I tighten the nuts and pull

the head stock out of the head and through the pipe?" Take the hacksaw andgo cut a piece of pipe. Oh, oil the threads. And if you have one of thoseracheting box end wrench, it goes quicker. 8)

CZ

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 23:39:56 -0800From: "GSNEFF" <sleykinx~xxcharter.net>Subject: Endmills, Spindles, Bearings and other things that go bump inthe night.

Sorry for lumping this all together but I read digest mode and it is aroyal PITA to split things up ...

As to holding endmills in the lathe for the milling attachment, Theonly really appropriate way to hold them is with an endmill holder. Theyare cheap, accurate and have a setscrew to keep the endmill from eitherspinning or walking out on you. You can buy say a 1/2" holder and makesleeves for smaller sizes. Anything much over 1/2" is too big to use inthe lathe with much success anyway.

To make sleeves just put a piece of 1/2" stock in the holder, clamp itwith the screw and bore to the size you need. Then cut or drill throughfor the setscrew to hold the endmill.

For pulling the spindle just get a pipe that fits over the bearing and abolt long enough to go through the spindle and the short piece of pipe.A heavy washer over the pipe and a washer over the spindle left end...tighten the bolt and the spindle will slide out... be sure to follow the rest of the instructions on the atlas website.http://www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htmYou are not likely to be able to see a damaged bearing. They are about $20each at a bearing supply house so the only question is ... is it worth$40 not to tear it apart again if the bearings do weird things??

By all means clean-up of the spindle should be done on the lathe it willlive on. The threads themselves are not really critical as long as theyare clean and thread onto the chuck/faceplate ok. The registers are allimportant. One centers the chuck and the other holds it perpendicular tothe centerline of the lathe.

Dents are ok here but you need to dress down any high spots.

As to the 6" lathe headstock bearings ... I had a bronze bushing lathethat I changed over to a timken headstock. The spindles do not interchangebut you can make a spindle for the replacement headstock, then installthe new headstock and finish the spindle nose on the lathe. The bronzebushings are not split but they are very thin walled compared to a"standard bushing". The spindle for the bronze bushed headstock islonger than the timken headstock. YMMV

Glenn NeffMedford, OR

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 20:06:14 -0800From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: Joining lathe beds

Has anyone on the list successfully joined two lathe beds? The thoughtof the increased capacity is very appealing, but not at the expense ofaccuracy. How could one align the ways, and insure stability? Notinterested in welding or regrinding one monstrous bed, but would loveto have an "add on" for those special jobs. This pipe dream has becomea recurring obsession every time I do any axle or driveline mods. I can'tbe the only one who longs for a bigger tool. Anybody try this yet?

Pat.

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 22:25:49 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

Some large lathes in the 50 foot bed type class are made that way,with joinable sections. It is a millwright job to get them aligned.Theoretically there is probably no reason it is impossible, but theleadscrew, rack, etc. would need to be dealt with. The ends wouldhave to be ground to fit, and the rack, etc. joined.

Jerry

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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 04:26:49 -0000From: "bill_collins14 <bill_collins14x~xxyahoo.com>"Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

Hello Pat.I haven't actually joined two lathe beds together(yet). Ihave another AA 109 bed I am contemplating joining them together. Somehave told me not to weld them but to join them mechanically. Whichmakes sense. Because welding can distort the cast iron material

Since I first got the idea of this project, I have acquired a largerlathe. A Southbend 9"x24" Model C. If for some reason I decide not topursue the idea,I may use the other bed as a bed for a horizontal mill.There is a group here on yahoo that have had good success extending thebeds on the 7"x10"-12" mini-lathe.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x24Mini-LatheCNC/

You can get some good ideas from them. Good luck and God Bless.

Bill C.

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Date: Sun, 8 Dec 2002 21:18:33 -0800From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: RE: Joining lathe beds

I recently came across a new 62" flame hardened bed, and just completedthe swap. The tailstock end is indeed ground and fitted with dowels. Theold bed is 50" and in decent shape, with the exception of a single sourspot of about 14". Neither end of this bed is ground, but I can't imagineit would be too expensive to have it ground. I wouldn't require the rackor leadscrew to be extended, just that it position the tailstockaccurately. Glad to know it isn't beyond the realm of possibility.

Pat

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 02:28:06 -0500From: "mertbaker" <MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

There's an "extension lathe bed" in the catalog for the Atlas 618.

Mert

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:10:58 -0800From: Frank Evan Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

Lathe bed joining is not a common happening, but it does happen.The way the ways are made on an Atlas, it would be pretty easyto use a standard woodworking trick to get the ends very close.

Clamp the two beds on a mill so ends almost meet, and the two are in aline. Leave a gap slightly less than the width of a sharp multi-fluteendmill. For example 0.020 under for a 1/2" endmill. Then pass theendmill between the beds, close to centered in gap.

Even if the beds are not perfectly aligned, the nature of the cut makesit so the pieces will mate with almost no gap.

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:47:39 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Joining lathe beds

I have not done or considered doing this so following is conjecture...

1) Locate a specialist grinding shop ie the grinding shop the machineshops send their work to. Ask around or use yellow pages to find shopsdoing this work. Interview shop and determine:a) do they have a grinder with a long enough bed to do jobb) what charge would be ( I had my 6 inch lathe ground on all faces

for about $80.00 and was well satisfied with work. Be sure to make shopaware that this is a flat bed lathe (might be good idea to take strippedcleaned lathe bed with you).

Be sure you understand what you want and grinder understands and can dothe job.

2) Get two worn lathe beds (Atlas/Craftsman of course) Have beds groundon all faces of rail to same measurements, match grind ends to eachother. Verify height of beds is same. Have tops and bottoms of feetground parallel and to same height.

3) Obtain leadscrew stock of proper thread long enough to be cut andground to go from headstock of bed A to bearing of bed B. If rack isimportant,make some rack teeth to cover gap between beds. Might takesome shuffling to get racks to line up. I feel that a solid uniformmounting surface would make or break this project.

I would try for something even more rigid than usual. Setting beds andaligning would be critical and worthy of every effort to achieve andverify maintain alignment. Sounds like an interesting project.

My bias is toward grinding because A) many Atlas Craftsman lathes areno longer capable of accurate work over whole length of bed B) precisiongrinding will yield a better than new bed surface C) it can be morereasonable and much quicker than you might expect.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 15:05:32 -0800From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: RE: Re: Joining lathe beds

I contacted a millwright this morning to ask about the feasibility ofsuch a project. He has performed the task many times in large factoriesin South America and Mexico, but mostly on machines that are made tobe broken down for shipment, and then reassembled on the factory floor...permanently. Some applications require huge gaps in the bed, whilestill maintaining precise alignment. "Expensive" and "permanent" are notin the vocabulary for this project. He described the requirements forthe job, and both words surfaced many times. He said he gets MANY callsfrom home shop guys asking to do the same thing, and the conclusion isalways the same. Just not practical. Find a lathe that suits your needs.I sort of already knew this. It's just that I hate to take bits of aproject into the driveline shop for completion, when I could do itmyself given the correct machine. I am happy with the capabilities ofmy Rockwell and Atlas machines. They do 90% of what I need.Now what to do with this spare bed.....

Pat

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Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2002 18:30:44 -0000From: "seb fontana <speedoo51x~xxyahoo.com>"

Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

Extending your lathe bed for tailstock use for longer pieces canbe done without a lot of effort as long as your base for the mainlathe is secure to floor. My first need put the tailstock about 6"out from bed, got it there by clamping flat ground stock to bed tohold tailstock then a brace from "addition" to base to make ridged inup-down direction. Remember that things are clamped, light cuts; usesteadyrest if near middle, even if it must go on chuck side ofcarrage..And if you will use carrage near tailstock end of bed besure to check ALINEMENT of leadscrew to bed...broke two leadscrewsupports because of half-nut defflecting leadscrew. Made new supportand shimmed to aline.

Next time the need arose I had longer and several differentlengths so set up another lathe bed to be able to move tailstock asneeded..I slid my drillpress so table could support addition andfixed to floor..clamped tailstock to overhang bed by 1/2 inch andclamped 1/2 inch square x 6" flat groundstock, top and bottom ofcarrage ways exstending 3 inches front and back of tailstock. Now hadreceiver for addition [mike bed thickness, use feeler stock to shimbottom as neccessary]..slide addition into receiver and rest on drilltable. Can use level for initial adjustment. I bolted 30" of 1x1 barstock to compound to extend along side of tailstock to reachaddition..use indicator mounted to end of bar to read on addition andby moving carrage can indicate bed to aline...once as close as couldget, Clamped bed to drillpress table, added clamps at receiver..movedtailstock and clamped short peice of flatground in its absence..couldnow move tail stock from one end to other just by removing one pieceof flatstock and two clamps.

I used just about every clamp I had and some I had to make longer-deeper..next time I'll bolt and shim!! Used it for quite a while thendiscovered that I could weld several pieces [premachined] with no lossof strenght so when I got tired of crawling over the lathe bed on thedrillpress I dismantled the addition..I had planned to make some legsfixed to floor to free up the drillpress; and if I had it would stillbe together...just in case.

Seb.

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 10:37:19 -0500From: "mertbaker" <MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: carege woble [ON AN ATLAS]

There should be screws under the carriage to take the slop out of it.When facing, even with a nice new machine, always lock the carriage,either with the lock screw provided, or if none, by stopping theleadscrew and engaging the half nuts. These two should cure your problem.

Mert MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net

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Date: Mon, 09 Dec 2002 12:05:40 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: carege woble

There is a gib with 4 adjusting screws on the back of the carriage toadjust front/back clearance. If the bed is badly worn, you can't tightenthe gib or it will bind against the bed at the ends of travel.

There is also a pair of gibs on the bottom of the carriage that preventit from lifting up off the bed. These are adjusted by removing laminatedshims under them. Be real careful when reinstalling these gibs. If thescrew pinches the shim, it will twist up in accordion fashion and makeit much looser. If this has already happened, you can replace wreckedshims with household aluminum foil, at about .0015" per layer. Finally,there is a carriage lock at the right front of the carriage that shouldprevent sideways movement of the carriage. You lock it with a squarewrench.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 23:48:00 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Joining lathe beds

Atlas /Craftsman lathes often are worn to point that grinding should beconsidered even though you may wind up with problems with engaginghalf nuts,rack and clamping saddle to bed. Nothing like getting freshlyground lathe bed where you know things are flat, parallel and square.

The rest can be dealt with if need be. Feet on my 6 inch lathe were ascast where they bolted to lathe bed. This did not seem to me to be kosherso had them ground also. I suggest this be considered by anyonecontemplating having bed ground. This all falls under heading of machinerebuilding not making chips,but, if you have a worn out machine yourchoices are live with something that is not accurate or do somethingabout it.

Combining two lathe beds may not be sensible for one or more reasons,but, if you were determined to do it I think it could be done andachieve acceptable accuracy.

Louis

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Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 12:58:00 -0000From: "mrb37211 <cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net>" <cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net>Subject: Re: Joining lathe beds

In at least one catalog, Atlas offered an extension bed for the 6x18for woodworkers. It had the identical feet and was designed to carrythe tailstock and be mounted at some distance from the original bedon the bench rather than in contact with the original bed -- at leastthat is what I gleaned from the picture. The saddle did not travel

from one bed to the other, and the lead screw was not extended. Oneof these was sold on eBay some time ago . . .

Charles

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Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 01:07:22 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Carriage lock for 12" Atlas

John Glowacki wrote:>Carriage lock doesn't lock on my AC 101.07403 12x36". My>old parts list shows a bolt, washer, and lock. Can>someone enlighten me as to how this works?

The square-head bolt pulls up the lock against the bottom of the bed,binding the bed between that and the carriage.

>how do I pull the front off the carriage to do this>repair? I also have to replace the miter gear and stud>that drives the power feed for the cross slide. Mine is>missing. Dad must have figured he could just turn the>handle for facing operations.

Unbolt the right-hand bracket for the leadscrew from the bed, then pullthe entire leadscrew through the apron, towards the right end. Removethe two huge Phillips screws on the top of the carriage.

The entire apron assembly should drop down (be ready to catch it).It will be greasy and hard to hold onto. You should be able to makeboth repairs or survey the problems in there once you have theapron off. You can check that everything is getting adequate lube,look for cracked or loose parts, etc.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 02:25:49 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Noisy spindle back gear: 12" 101.28990

rocketpsi wrote: >> Is the spindle pulley/gear normally noisy in directdrive (or back gear for that matter)? <<

Direct drive should be pretty quiet. Back gear on most 10 and 12"Atlas/Craftsman lathes is pretty noisy. A characteristic bell-like ringingis very common, with a little gear grinding in the background. I suspectthis is all coming from the step pulley that is spinning on the spindle.Maybe if the bearing there is kept well oiled, it won't get like that.

There is a setscrew in one of the pulley grooves that should be removedand oil dripped in before using back gear. There is also an oil screwin the backgear shaft.

> I went through all the pulley tensioning>adjustments, the spindle bearings (timken) seem fine. I checked for>loose screws etc. The only thing is that there seems to be slop in>the engaged back gear lock pin- backlash seems about two or three>gear teeth equivalent rotation. Is that normal? I cant imagine that>the loose fit should contribute much to the "tinny slapping" noise,>considering that there would be constant positive force on it. I don't>want to dismantle the headstock if i can avoid it.>I did have a problem with the spindle drive belt pulley, apparently>it had loosened and started "walking" off the countershaft, which>probably put some lateral stress on the spindle pulley.

Yup, a standard problem. These Zamak pulleys really should have hadsteel hub inserts. Once the pulley hole is belled from getting loose, itwill KEEP getting loose.

The fix is to bore it out and fit a steel sleeve.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 03:56:15 -0000From: "jmsbacon <jmsbaconx~xxpeoplepc.com>"Subject: 6800 Quick Change Question

I am in the process of installing a QC gearbox (model 6800) on my 10"Atlas lathe. Everything is bolted up and looks good except for theamount of engagement between the tumbler gears and the spindle gear.Only about 1/2 the width of the tumbler gear is engaging the spindlegear. The tumbler gears are too far to the left (away from theheadstock)to fully engage the spindle gear.

I've looked at all the exploded views that I can find and everythingseems to be in its proper place. The tumbler assembly is boltedflush to the headstock so there's no way to move the tumbler assemblyto the right. I also can't find any reference to a different (wideror offset) spindle gear to accomodate the QC. The QC will work as isbecause the tumbler gears are being driven by the spindle gear, butI'm worried that I may eventually strip the gears with only 1/2 thewidth of the tumbler gear engaged.

Has anyone ever come across this issue before or does someone have a6800 QC on their lathe so that they could take a look at theirtumbler/spindle gear engagement and tell me if this is how it'ssupposed to be? I've spent a couple of hours looking everything overand I can't see any way to increase the engagement short of machininga spacer for the spindle gear to offset it more to the left, but thatwill then reduce the gear's engagement of the woodruff key.

Any help or insight is appreciated!

Jim Bacon

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 23:54:02 -0600

From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 6800 Quick Change Question

Hmmm, odd. I did the upgrade on a 10" some years ago, and it was a bolton job. I did have to adjust the little plate with the holes thatestablishes the gear engagement of the tumbler.If I remember correctly, the headstock can be placed anywhere along thebed with the clamp removed. I wonder if somebody had the headstock off anddidn't put it in the right place. It is a tight interference fit betweenthe inner bed ways, so you don't have to sweat getting it out of alignment.

Hmmm, assuming this is a Timken-equipped spindle, is there a spacerbetween the rear bearing inner race and the gear? I think there ISsupposed to be a spacer there.

This partial engagement probably won't do any harm, as the input gearhas the least load on it. As the gears slow down the speed, the force onthem increases, so the gears of the right selector tumbler have muchmore load to carry.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 22:26:30 -0800From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: RE: 6800 Quick Change Question

Hey Jim, during a complete rebuild of my 10" QC many years back, someoneliberated the QC casting, which had just been painted and left to dry inthe sun. I managed to acquire another after a long search, and ran intothe exact same problem you describe. The spindle gear (9-100-32) seatedtoo far onto the spindle to engage the tumbler assembly correctly. I hadtaken lots of pics before the teardown, so I know that the originalassembly lined up correctly.

The replacement QC offset the tumbler gears by over 1/4"! This just hadme bewildered. I too was worried about running the gear train with only50% of the tumbler engaging the spindle gear. I spent nearly an entireday breaking down assemblies, trying to make up the difference. I foundthat you can't make up for it from the tumbler assembly down, as itthrows the rest of the gear train out of alignment.

I gained 1/8" by loosening the headstock bolts, and pushing the entireheadstock outbound as far as possible. I got the other 1/8" by fabinga spacer to fit between 10A-6 and 9-100-32.

The spindle collar now sits flush with the end of the spindle, andI get 100% engagement with the tumbler gears. Not a problem since, andI no longer dry freshly painted parts at the mouth of the roll-up. Icould send a pic if it would help. Good luck.

Patrick.

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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 18:40:07 -0000From: "jmsbacon <jmsbaconx~xxpeoplepc.com>"Subject: Re: 6800 Quick Change Question

Yes, it's a Timken headstock and the spacer is in place between thespindle gear and the bearing. Moving the headstock on the bed won'thelp the situation as the tumbler gear bracket bolts directly to theside of the headstock. Moving the headstock won't change therelationship between the tumbler gears and the spindle gear. Lookslike the best solution is to machine an additional spacer to move thespindle gear a little further out on the spindle. Thanks for thehelp...

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Date: Sat, 14 Dec 2002 13:29:09 -0800From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: RE: Re: 6800 Quick Change Question

Jim...We must have different setups, because I just went to look at mine,and the tumbler assembly IS NOT attached to my headstock. I think they madethree or four different QC models (some that are model 15XX). The only thingconnecting the headstock to the QC/quad/tumbler assembly, is a HANGER whichis connected to the headstock with a 3/8" machine screw and a series ofwashers and shims. My headstock is retained to the bed by two cap screws,and a larger single bolt and clamp at the working end. The clamp isinfinitely adjustable, and the holes in the ways for the two caps had enoughslop in them to move the whole thing about 1/8" outward. I then removed theappropriate number of shims between the hanger and the headstock, so thatthe quadrant would align properly w/o racking. I left the large washer in.This brought the spindle gear out 1/8" IN RELATION to the tumbler gears.Like I said before, I made the rest up with a spacer on the spindle. The QCmounts to the front way with two caps, and is also a somewhat sloppy fit.You might be able to gain some ground there, however, I recall needing thatslop to get proper axial alignment of the quadrant. I spent FOREVER withbluing to get everything to work together. BTW, I checked out quite a fewmachines during this time, and the hangers and tumblers vary between models.The number of shims and washers between the headstock and hanger alsovaries. One that I looked at had NO shims or washers here, a smallerdiameter lead screw, and perfect gear alignment.One word of caution: the quadrant is fragile as hell. Don't remove thatspacer and torque down the machine screw unless the assemblies are

aligned!!!! Wish I had more info on the differences between models. I thinkmany owners added a QC themselves, so keep this in mind. Good luck.

Patrick

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Date: Mon, 16 Dec 2002 22:03:12 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Lead Screw

> Has anyone ever tried cutting the leadscrew at both ends, flipping end toend and welding it back together to use the normally little used threads atthe right hand end? I checked on a new leadscrew for my Atlas 10X54 and theywanted $350. >

I have heard of it, and you are better off boring it, and pinning togethervia a smaller stub set in, as welding won't necessarily get it concentric,even if you pilot pin it. Warp gets you.

OR, you could buy the leadscrew material and apply it to your cut-off ends.Good threaded acme rod is available from sources which have been listed herebefore.

Jerrold

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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 09:31:09 ESTFrom: cmiller231x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Lead Screw (Acme stock)

I have been a non participating member of this group for some time. Iread each post with interest, and have picked up a great deal ofinformation. Several times people have asked about sources for new leadscrews. I have dealt with a small firm that specializes in Acme threadstock and nuts in Two Rivers WI for many years with good results. Theydo not cut or machine the material, but do sell UPS able lengths of justabout any Acme thread. The firm is:Green Bay Manufacturing2617 18th Street Two Rivers, WI 54241 Phone: (920) 793-2411They do not have an internet presence that I know of, so you will haveto contact them by phone or mail. I hope this will help, and Good Luck!

There was also another message that McMaster has low precision, acmestock, haven't checked myself recently.

Chris

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Date: Tue, 17 Dec 2002 22:43:53 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: crossfeed backlash

The problem with excessive crossfeed backlash is just that it is a pain inthe posterior. Of course it can "easily be worked around", but if you CANfix it to a decent degree, why "tough it out" spinning the crossfeed twiceas much as you need? I have enough workarounds already, dunno about you.

I find it a pain when threading, and if milling, so I tightened out the wearon the screw bearings, and got mine from an INDICATED 0.060 to an indicated0.015. That, as less than half a turn, is OK with me. I say indicated,because there obviously was not that much actual movement in the nut, therewould have been no screw thread left, it was just the dial numbers.Fixing it also got me a resettable dial, as mine was not. I made a collarfor the dial to run on , which does the actual tightening.

When buying a lathe, backlash is a great feature. Just twirl the dial andlook annoyed and less than pleased. Start looking at every wear point onthe machine. Price may come down as you negotiate using that fact among theothers (or it may not, you may just get a lecture like the ones regularlyposted on the bbbs when this comes up.). Tricky? Nope, as long as you cometo a negotiated sale price without fraud, its just business. And, the wearis actually present, whether you care or not is nobody's concern but yours.

Oh, and NUT wear does not mess the dial readings up like SCREW wear. At thetransitions between worn and unworn parts of the screw, the dial is wrong.In consistently worn or unworn places it is probably accurate enough.

Jerrold

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 17:41:44 -0700From: Steve K <stevek433x~xxattbi.com>Subject: Re: Need opinion on precision level

Mike wrote:> Would the Chinese *Master Precision Level* at the link below be suitable

for leveling my lathe? Anyone have a suggestion for an alternative choicein the $75. or so range? I don't know what else I would ever use it for soI don't want to spend a small fortune for a Starrett. I just want to get mymachine as level as I can without going overboard on cost. I have amachinist acquaintance who would most likely have a good level but I kindahate to ask to borrow it and I also hate to be responsible for it. Probablybe best to buy my own. Any suggestions are appreciated. Mike Hannah <

This would work fine, but be aware that there are cheaper ways to"level" a lathe, and in my opinion, easier and more accurate to get a"no-taper" turning (which is the whole intent of leveling a lathe).

I think I am accurate is saying that "level" is not the mainrequirement, getting rid of twist in the bed when the lathe is bolteddown IS the main issue. Yes, you want the lathe as level as you canget, but almost any level will get you close enough. A good mechanicsquality level works well.

What an accurate machinist level does is help you see visually is anytwist in the bed. This method works, but is tedious as you begin totorque the hold down bolts. YOu never quite know which way to tightenwhich bolt, or how much.

You can, IMHO, get faster and more accurate indication by using a dialindicator or dial test indicator and a test bar. You simple watch theneedle move as you torque the bolts down. BIG HINT: use jacking screwsto hold the lathe down.. makes it very easy to adjust the twist out ofthe bed.

12-20 inches of regular 1" drill rod will be more than accurate enoughfor a home shop test bar. A good indicator reading to .001, andmagnetic holder will cost 15.00 on sale. Put the rod in the chuck, readthe max/min runnout at the chuck, rotate the chuck to the midpoint, andrun the indicator down the length of the rod (magnetically attached tothe apron). Note the indicator tip needs to be on centerline (as closeas you can conceivably get it)

I was able to get my lathe bolted down with .0003 deviation (yes,thenths) over 10" of a 1 1/4" ground rod on my 12 x 36 lathe. Granted,this is a pretty good lathe (Clausing Colchester),and I probably couldhave tweaked in even a little tighter. HOwever, at that point I am notsure if what I was measuring is really that accurate.

Actual cutting of a 15" long rod (with tailstock support this time)showed less than .0003 difference between the chuck end and thetailstock end. Good enough for me.

Or use Rollie fingers method to level the lathe if you don't have aknown good rod...

Steve Koschmann

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Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2002 18:58:03 -0600From: "Paul Siegert" <pgs1x~xxairmail.net>Subject: RE: Need opinion on precision level

That level is a knock-off of one made in Poland that is in the MSC, Enco &several other catalogs, probably in the same price range, or less when onsale, which if they aren't, you can usually get them to match the price onif you point them to the link you are referencing. You can also go to Ebayand get a very good level in the $75 range.

I have the Polish one that appears to be the original model of the Chineseknock-off you are looking at. I also have a Starrett Master Level, and sixother Starrett levels in various size ranges as well as two SPI levels(which are very good). Having said that, they all, when calibrated (whichonly takes a few minutes if you know how to do it), produce the resultsthat they are represented at. I'd guess that the Chinese level wouldprobably be very accurate, probably much more so than a six inch or fourinch starrett that does not come close to .0005 per 10". I generally usetwo matching levels at once when leveling machinery, one on the X axis andone on the Y axis. It speeds things up considerably. If you have someoneto call the readings while you are on the floor adjusting the levelingpads it goes a WHOLE lot faster.

Bottom line is that the level you are looking at will be more thanadequate for what you are doing. Other issues as important as the levelare the bench or stand you mount it on, the variation and frequency ofvariation change in the foundation of the floor as the seasons change,vibration and its effect on your overall setup, and the type of levelingpads you are using, as well as the compression effect of anti-vibrationmaterials on the pads themselves. One last thought, if you level ittoday and use the machine for a couple of hours and check it a week laterwith a level that has the accuracy quoted on the one you are looking at,the machine will in all probability be out of level, as it is verysensitive.

Just my opinion.Paul

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 12:43:10 -0000From: "yrotc78u212 <mickimx~xxrpi.edu>" <mickimx~xxrpi.edu>Subject: Re: Need opinion on precision level

being a machinist in the real world, i looked up some web sites thatthe home shop machinists have on the internet and was impressed by the

pictures of there projects.i give them alot of credit for quality ofthe finished product and there ingenuity in making parts with limitedresourses.there`s a saying,garbage in-garbage out.if you start with atwisted machine tool you get twisted parts.working on parts that are+/-.005 is fine but leveling a machine produces a straight andparallel product.thats what you get when it`s level.leveling shouldnot be over looked no matter what machine tool you have.obviously iwould`nt suggest buying a starrett master level thats accurate to.0005 per foot because of the cost but basically that is what youneed.bottom line for you guy`s is to get it as best you can with whatyou have.hope this helps.

mark ps. if there are any misspelled words, remember I'm not an English major, just a machinist

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Date: Fri, 20 Dec 2002 16:23:42 -0600From: "Don Feinberg" <ducquex~xxmindspring.com>Subject: Re: Re: Leveling and levels

I really wonder about this thread. Before I had any skill at all workingwith a lathe, I went out and bought a nice 8" master precision level,convinced that I'd need it to get to the precision level I wasanticipating. With experience, I have proved myself wrong in two ways:

1) I've found that every physical lathe has a kind-of "inherent maximumprecision", based on the grinding of the ways, the accuracy of thecarriage, the fit of the headstock, parallelism of main shaft with theways, etc., etc. It's a real combination of ingredients which leads oneto understanding that "you can't machine closer than +/- X thousandthson this machine".

Problem is, using the master level, you may well be beating a dead horse,trying to get accuracy simply not available from your machine.

2) I thought that it was important for the bench to be level, the bed tobe level on the bench, etc., etc. Then I thought about lathes which areused in the military (like on shipboard, when a ship is at sea, or inslap-together maintenance posts). Those places give very un-level --sometimes, dynamically so -- conditions, yet machinists are expected to(and do) turn out good work under those conditions.

After some thought, I've begun to believe that the absolute level of thelathe (with respect to the earth) is much less important than its relativelevel -- i.e., the parts of the lathe with respect to one another, and itsrelative stability (will it hold still while working so you can worksafely and comfortably?). Bottom line -- I have a nice master precisionlevel which I've never used!

Don Feinberg

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 11:43:15 -0000From: "mfb11 <mfb1fyfbx~xxteisprint.com>" <mfb1fyfbx~xxteisprint.com>Subject: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

I can not drill a good hole in the center of a piece mounted on thehead stock chuck? If I use two dead centers & rular balanced betweenthem / everything lines up. When I put in the arbor & drill chuck &drill bit / the anlinement goes to h_ll? I have mounted the arbor /drill chuck / pointed rod in the head stock & spin against a plate &it swings in a small arc, appox 1/32" . I have mounted a drill bit (1/4" )in the tail stock chuck & tried to run it up into the headstock, with no luck / it rubs against the inside of the spindle? Howcan I check the tube that the arbor fits into on the tail stock? ( Ihave mounted it in my drill press chuck & spun it by hand / there isa high spot) Can I buy a new piece? I plan to order a new arbor &drill chuck, if the tube is OK? ANY other checks I can make? Thanksin advance for any help / info.

Mike in Penn.

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 07:28:40 -0500From: "Dr. Robert Harms" <rharms1x~xxtampabay.rr.com>Subject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

The first thing I would do would be to put a known to be good round piecein the chuck and check the run out with a dial indicator. I think you willfind that the spindle is bent on the end. This is very common with AA109'sbut easily replaced. http://communities.msn.com/bitsamotorcyclesandparts

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 14:32:00 -0000From: "mfb11 <mfb1fyfbx~xxteisprint.com>" <mfb1fyfbx~xxteisprint.com>Subject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

-I tried it using a piece mounted in a four jaw chuck ( I took a knownpiece of round stock & faced it off a couple of times & it was the somethickness as I started less the amount cut off ). So I don`t think thespindle is bend? ( I also used a dial gauge on the spindle & it was OK )

Mike in Penn.

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:16:25 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

The tailstock may be worn so the ram is not parallel to the ways. Extendit fully (but not too far) and mount a dial indicator on the carriage.

With the tailstock all the way to the right on the ways (where ways wear isgoing to be least) run the carriage over and rest the indicator button onthe ram. Move the carriage and note any changes n the reading. Ideallythere should be no change. Ram and its hole might be worn, or the bottom ofthe tailstock might be worn. Either causes the ram to sag relative to ways.

A bent spindle is also quite possible or even likely on the 109. I thinkevery single one has a damaged spindle, unless it has been replaced.

Jerrold

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 10:17:21 -0800From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

You take a spindly drill bit and expect it to drill the exact center of apiece, especially when the holder for the drill bit is on a whole bunch ofstuff which can be all over the place for position? Nah, you don't getthere!

Start by using a center drill, that little very short drill bit that hasthe small drill tip on it and then the taper to the larger shaft and youcan't drill very far with it. That is the starting point. Rigidity is whatgets this bit to work properly as you may drill a bit off-center as far asposition, but the drill will open the hole to the diameter plus the offset.

This is your starter hole. It, at the least, makes sure that your drillwill start on the center of the spinning work. This still doesn't meanthat the drill will come out the other end at the center if the depth isdeep tho as the typical twist drill can and does wander due to thedesign of the bit.

Bob May

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 12:42:43 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

First, the tailstock may not be lining up except when close to theheadstock. Second, the drill chuck may not be mounting straight on thearbor, the arbor may be galled or bent, or the tailstock ram may begalled. This is a VERY common problem, as the Morse tapers don't alwaysseat tightly, and then you can spin the arbor in the ram while drilling.

The Jacobs taper on the drill chuck and arbor are so short that it ispretty easy to get the chuck jammed on crooked. The only fix for thatis to remove the drill chuck, inspect for galling/dings and thenreinstall gently with a twisting motion. Then, if it appears to bestraight, tap it in with a piece of wood and a hammer.

No 109 parts are available, as far as I know. AA has been out ofbusiness for decades, and I think Sears either dumped their parts orjust ran out. You can check, of course. The Sears service centerapparently has exploded parts diagrams to figure out the part numbers.

Ridges or galls on the inside of the tailstock ram are real common. Ifthat is the problem, use a Dremel or similar tool to remove the ridge. Itis pretty easy if you can get a light to shine in from the other end. TheMorse taper has so much contact area, a little removed material will makeno difference. You can check for contact area with blue spotting dye(Prussian blue artist's oil pigment) or magic marker.

You put the dye on the Morse arbor and wring it gently into the ram. Whenyou pull it out, the areas where the two tapers contact will be rubbedoff, the areas where it DOESN'T contact will still have the marking on it.A ridge in the ram will clean a ring on the arbor. When you get the ridgecompletely fixed, the ring will disappear, and you'll get a wider areawhere the marking is removed.

Anyway, for drilling on the lathe, you should always start with a centerdrill to put a centered hole in the work. This guides a longer drill bitinto the center of the work. A jobber's length drill will ALWAYS wanderwhen entering the work unless you provide a starting hole.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 31 Dec 2002 18:30:03 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: sears 109 AA Lathe tail stock Problems?

Bob May writes:<< Start by using a center drill, that little very short drill bit

I'm new also and don't want to admit how often I mess up a simple hole.The above is VERY true. I even milled half thru a piece to find out whatwent wrong. I found the drill bent and drilled a curved hole. I didn'tthink a drill could bend that much, but it did. Seems like the smallerholes give me more grief than larger holes. I'm getting better now thatI take my time more.

Hank

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Date: Fri, 3 Jan 2003 22:27:14 -0600From: "Microsoft mail Server" <jts4545x~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: Help 6 inch Atlas lathe

> I have a 6 inch Atlas lathe model 10100 and> I need some help. When I engage the half nuts to feed the carriage to> the left it works fine. But I when I engage the half nut to feed the> carriage to the right it jerks along. I have put new half nuts on the> the lathe and it worked fine for awhile. Today it has started this new> problem. If I put a little drag on the carrige wheel it will feed fine> to the right. Does anyone have any idea what is going on. Thanks Terry

Check adjustments of the carriage gibs. Some screws may be tighter thanothers. They should be tightened evenly.

On the bottom of the carriage is an adjustment screw, check the tightnessof this. The tip of the screw may be unevenly worn on one side. It mayneed replacement.

If you have the manual, check the location of the carriage shims. Theshims may have worn down and might need replacing.

Check the engagement of the gears, they simply may not be adjustedproperly. You should have just enough engagement to stick a thick pieceof paper between gears. The gear on the leadscrew and the tumbler gearscontrol carriage movement. Again, check the manual for the 10100.

Check the little gear on the threading dial. Look for signs of wear. Itmay not be en gaging properly and is giving false timing on when to closethe half-nut lever. The indicator marks are approximate, not exact. Thetime to close varies with the feed or thread selected. Some require fastclosing, some slower closing. You should not have to force the half-nutsclosed, they should go smoothly into place. You may have to get a "feel"for the closing speed and timimg. Sometimes just before the indicatormark or slightly after the indicator mark.

Then lead screw itself may be worn, since you have new half nuts. Check theadjustment of the new half-nuts. They may be dragging on the leadscrew.

Check the lube on the gears. On the teeth and the shafts that the gearsturn on. Lube may have dried and hardened causing sticking and inaccurategear movement. Fresh oil on the shaft parts and fresh gear "open gear"spray lube on the gear teeth.

Check carriage gear rack for debris, dried lube, or excessive wear. Makesure you lubricate sliding contact surfaces of carriage and bed ways top,sides, and bottom with "way lubricant", not expedients like motor oil.This will eliminate "stick slip" and dragging, as well as reduce wear. HTH

James

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Date: Sat, 04 Jan 2003 00:40:40 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Help 6 inch Atlas lathe

I'm not too familiar with the 6", but know the 10 and 12" pretty well.I would guess your carriage gibs are loose, and are allowing the carriageto twist on the bed, causing binding. See if you can rock the carriage bypulling forward on the left side and pushing back on the right side,imitating the torque the leadscrew would generate when driving towardthe tailstock.

If you can get the carriage to move that way, you need to tighten thescrews on the back of the carriage. But, if your bed is worn in themiddle, that may cause binding at the extreme ends of travel.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 07 Jan 2003 12:32:41 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: safety

Crashdummy653x~xxaol.com wrote:>Hi Jon. Thanks for the heads up. I have an Atlas lathe model TH42serial # 041998. It has an auto feed and is in fair to good shape.There is some play in the cross feed screw and nut and wonder where Imight get replacements. <

First, check the adjustment of the bushing just in front of the handle,and take up all the slack there.

I have used lathes with a lot of backlash in the cross feed, and I reallydon't let it bother me too much. But, I believe the Clausing Servicecenter in Goshen, IN has these parts. They may be a bit expensive,though. I made my own screw and nut on a previous (10") lathe. I gotthem to have about .002" backlash.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 02:27:34 -0000From: "alanheff <ahefx~xxmchsi.com>" <ahefx~xxmchsi.com>Subject: 12" bed wear

The bed on my 12" Atlas/Craftsman has some wear on the headstock endwhere wear would be expected. It is more pronounced on the frontrail and is ~ 0.003". Have any of you had the rails surface groundto eliminate the wear? Is this possible?

Thanks, Al

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Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 22:21:47 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: 12" bed wear

I can only speak for 6 inch to state it is not only possible but worth-while. I had top, front, back and bottoms ground and expect to beginreassmbly when I get carriage back from grinding. I also have 12 by36 C/A so I appreciate it is a similar job but on a larger scale.

Bed of grinder has to be enough longer than lathe bed to allow grindingwheel to be clear of lathe bed at start and end of each pass. (lengthof lathe bed plus ?) The work must be set up by someone who knowsand cares.

If you mention grinding lathe ways they may shy away if they don'tunderstand that Atlas ways are flat parallels not vee ways. You mayalso want feet ground as (at least on 6 inch) they are as cast. When Igot bed back I found bottom of carriage rocked on lathe bed as surfacesthat glide on ways were not flat and parallel. I suspect this was notwear-related but the result of less than perfect manufacture.

If you have questions contact me off line. Some have mentioned havingways milled, but, personally I like mirror finish from grinding even iffinal result is no better. Some have also suggested hand scraping eitheralone or in combination with milling. I recall seeing ads years ago inDetroit Metro area papers for experienced scraper hands.

I think it was a dying art form even then. If you have this skill or arewilling to acquire it superior results are attainable as I believe youwould be working to a higher level of precision. If you ask the group,someone will outline process.

When you achieve renewed surface you will appreciate it more than theperson(s)who wore it out. The soft cast iron ways need to be protectedwith clean working practices, generous and timely application of way oiland a cover to keep grit from settling out of air on to ways.

Louis

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Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:21:12 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: 12" bed wear

Louis ....if bed was sufficiently worn to warrant grinding,i wud suspectthat carriage rocking IS due to wear .......typical w/ tool pressure ascarriage advances.... glad to know u found a capable source ...theoriginals were ground ,not scraped,..but rather large specialized machine

best wishes

docn8as

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Date: Thu, 9 Jan 2003 23:39:33 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: 12" bed wear

Place where carriage rides on ways still had marks from machining. Did notappear all that worn. But it did rock very noticably. Casting distortionafter machining seems most likely source of problem. It is a complex partand possibly stresses locked into metal as it cooled after casting wereunevenly released by original machining. In any case we will see ifgrinding makes it better or worse...cannot use as is.

Louis

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Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:24:21 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 12" bed wear

alanheff wrote:>The bed on my 12" Atlas/Craftsman has some wear on the headstock end>where wear would be expected. It is more pronounced on the front>rail and is ~ 0.003". Have any of you had the rails surface ground>to eliminate the wear? Is this possible?

Yes, you can do this. The trick is that whoever grinds it has to be verycareful to not bow the bed on the magnetic chuck or whatever is used tohold it when grinding the top. A common trick is to clamp the bed upsidedown on the magnetic chuck and the grind the feet first. Then it shouldsit flat on the chuck when the bed is ground.

The wear on the top is minor, and probably doesn't need to be groundunless you are doing much precision work. What is more critical on theAtlas bed is the front/back edges. these are what constrains thecarriage in the front/back direction, and controls diameter of the work.If there is a worn spot there, the carriage is necessarily loose at theworn spot. If you try to tighten it, it will bind at the ends of travel.

So, the edges of the bed need to be ground at the same time, and withoutremoving the bed from the grinder, so you get a consistant width along thelength of the bed. If these edges are worn .003", then you'd definitelywant to have the bed ground!

Or, you can learn the fine art of hand scraping! All you need is astraightedge, spotting compound and a scraping blade.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 10 Jan 2003 01:08:46 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: power cross feed

Damon Gentile wrote:>What's the ratio of power feed to power cross feed ?>Like if the feed is set to move the carraige 0.005" / rev,>and you engage the crossfeed, will it still be 0.005" /rev?

The carriage leadscrew is 8 TPI. The crossfeed screw is 10 TPI. But,there is an 8:10 ratio included in the power crossfeed gear train tocompensate, so the amount moved per spindle revolution will be thesame for either feed. (Of course, on the crossfeed, the diameter cutwill change twice as fast as the slide moves.)

Jon

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Date: Tue, 14 Jan 2003 20:35:58 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Zamak repair techniques

A guy emailed me today and asked if I was interested in how he repairedan Atlas carriage gear bracket, and I said"Yes, of course!" There it is :

I wrote a description of the repair to another Atlas owner and will tryto forward it to you. Yes, you may post it or send to anyone. I appreciateyou asking first. One thing I would like to add is When using the Ideal Rodfollow the directions of the manufacturer as they seemed to work very well.Here is a short description of Ideal Rod Physical properties.

Elastic limit pound - 6,600 Elastic limit per Sq. inch - 33,000Maximum Load pounds - 7,800 Tensile Strength in Lbs per Sq. in. - 39,000

Hank

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Subject: Lathe: Rack Gear Housing RepairFrom: Ngtworkx~xxaol.com

Hi Ronald,My name is Hank. I just read your webpage and wanted to thank you forall the great info. I particularly was interested in the article on theRack Gear Housing. I had the same problem with my lathe recently andfixed it before I read your website. My housing looked exactly likeyours when it broke. I thought you might be interested in how I did myrepair and you could add it to your site or not. After I took thehousing off I cleaned it with brake cleaner then washed it with hotsoapy dish detergent and rinsed it. After it air dried I inspected thebreak and found a small casting flaw in the center of the break. I had

already determined what had caused the housing to break in the firstplace. It was due to the mounting screws becoming loose which put thehousing in a bind when the carriage was moved.

(Moderator's note: This is a classic problem on the 10 and 12" Atlas.Check the screws every few months and keep them tight.)

Anyway, I had a piece of 1/4" steel plate that I checked for flatnessand found a corner that would work for bolting the housing to it. Ilocated the holes by using a fine tip felt marker and then while holdingthe housing I positioned the broken leg into place and marked the ID ofthe last hole. Then I found the center of the elongated holes andcenter-punched them. I drilled holes just a little over the OD of thescrews that were used to mount the housing and used the originalfasteners to attach the housing to the 1/4" steel plate. Then I used a 3cornered file to file a V-notch across the break. When I finished thefiling I had a root (opening) of about 1/32" (as I wanted to filethrough the thickness of the part). After I finished filing the break Imounted the steel plate in my vise with the V-notch in a horizontalposition. I don't know how you determined what type of metal the housingwas made of. (I have never heard of Zamac) I did not think it wasaluminum from the looks of it but thought it was aluminum and some metalI wasn't sure about. Anyway, I had bought some Ideal Rod years ago whichI have never used, so I thought since it is an alloy compatible withaluminum it might work to fix the break. So, I tried it.I filed the topof the V-notch on both sides (1/8" along the top of each side to removeoxidation) I then used a propane torch and heated the break to themelting temperature of the rod and then tinned the break first. Then Ialternately passed the torch over the break and melted the rod into thebreak until it was filled. I let it air cool and then used a dremel witha carbide cutter to remove a lot of the excess melted rod and finishedwith a file to dress it. With the root at !/32" it allowed the rod toflow through some which gave the 90 degree cast angle a rounded fillet.The fillet as well as a little more thickness of metal on the top ofwhere the break was makes the piece much stronger. The Ideal Rod has avery high tensile strength to begin with. Anyway, the repair workedgreat! Its better than new. The only thing I would do different would beto use one of the small propane (Micro) torches as the one I useddoesn't have any tips to attach to it that would make the flame smaller.I almost melted the base material but stopped just in time to add therod. Also a heat crayon might be good to use as I wished I had one. Oh!one more thing...a small piece of copper would be good to place belowthe root to keep any of the melted rod from attaching to the gears. Doyou know what the gears are made of ? I think they are Zamac too.Anyway that's about it. I hope this helps for any future repairs ifneeded. If you have any questions e-mail me.

Sincerely,Hank

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Date: Mon, 3 Feb 2003 20:38:06 -0500From: "Paul & Charlene Wilson" <paulfcwx~xxgo-concepts.com>Subject: Re: Re: Long distance diagnosis

For what it's worth, I bought a new nut for my cross slide when I first

got the lathe and later adapted the old one to take out the backlash. Idrilled and tapped a hole on each side of the screw so I could put 2jacking screws between the 2 nuts, threaded both onto the screw, lockedone down (I milled the boss off the old one, but left the flat to keepit from rotating with the screw) and tightened the jacking screws until99% of the back lash was gone. Overkill, but I had the time and the nut(my wife says I'm the nut ...) I have seen the same thing with a springbetween the two nuts.

Better, I think.Paul

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Date: Tue, 4 Feb 2003 20:44:09 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Erratic infeed results

> I have tightened up the compound gibs but not the gibs to the> bed. So I know there is some slop there. I even get a different cut if I> hold down on the half nut lever.

You will want to adjust those gibs before you wear the carriage to a shapethat cannot be fixed without scraping-in. You will get wear on the ends,but less in the middle on the side bearing areas. With it worn bell-mouthed, you will never again be able to get a decent cut on it until itis repaired. Been there, seen that.

If you find a considerably different cut going towards headstock vs awayfrom it, you may have this problem starting. It is then adjustment time.That would indicate it is twisting on the bed.

> Sometimes it will cut more even if I> don't use any infeed and recut at the same setting, which I believe is> a good thing to do just before reaching the final diameter.

This isn't necessarily to do with wear or gibs, it may just be springin the work.

Jerrold

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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 11:09:51 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Scraping ways

Kirk M Scammon wrote:>Jon, I sent Mr. Morgan several inquires regarding his book and videos,>with no response. I am interested in scraping the ways on my lathe and>mill, and was wondering if you know who publishes his book, so I can>get a copy from the publisher or if there is other publications>available, as I haven't been able to find any online.>I already have a 6 foot long 2 inch wide granite surface plate>that would make a great straight edge.

I'm afraid he publishes it himself. There are copies around, so youmight check eBay or Amazon. One other book I have is Machine ToolReconditioning, by Edward F. Connelly.

It is kind of expensive, but has a LOT of good info in it. This isadvertised in the back of Home Shop Machinist, but is available fromother sources.

I have a Michael Morgan straightedge, but never got my copy of his book.But, I learned how to do it without the Morgan book. The Connellybook is not a text on scraping, but more on how to decide where toscrape to get the right alignment. But, every machine is different, andthe plan has to adapt to the wear and shape of the ways.

I'm doing a big Sheldon lathe right now, and it has hardened ways, soscraping won't work. I did rough grinding with a toolpost grinder attachedto the tailstock base, and now I'm finishing up with a die grinder andCratex rubberized wheels, which take off just a little material.

The problem is that I tried to trust the reference surfaces, which arenot supposed to be worn. Well, the may not have wear, but they wereeither showing sag, or poor grinding accuracy. I foolishly followedthose untrue surfaces until it was vastly evident they couldn't bestraight, and then had to fix the belly I had put into the ways tryingto follow them! UGH!

At least, with an Atlas, you have NO reference surfaces to follow allthe way to ruin. There's only one top, only one front, only one back, etc.I think the basic plan is to get the top rear surface (the least worn,generally) flat and free of twist, first.

Then, you can ride a master precision level across the ways down the bed,and work on the front top way until it is flat and parallel to the back.This will allow the carriage to ride the bed without any twist.

Then, you scrape the front surface (generally less wear than the backone) to be flat. Finally, you scrape down the back to be parallelto the front, and mike the front-back dimension so that the ends areexactly the same width.

The carriage can be scraped to fit the bed pretty easily.

I recommend Canode dyes instead of the Prussian blue "hi spot" dye. ThePrussian Blue is a better dye, but it is JUST too messy! It takes weeksto come off your hands, permanently stains clothing, etc. I bought abig bottle of Canode dye from Dapra Co., but they have a $50 minimum.

Do you know for a fact that granite piece is truly flat? I have an airbearing beam that should be fantastically flat, but when I tried to useit as a scraping master, I got strong indications that it was not flatin all axes.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 15:35:23 ESTFrom: JMartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Scraping ways

Don't forget the undersides of the ways, as you'll need constant thicknessto keep the carriage moving correctly.

John martin

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 18:55:35 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Digest Number 1343

atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com writes:> Having an aging 1941 10", I'm wondering about scraping the ways.> Would it be worse to have them ground ? But would either> help the cause? Carrage moves esy near the headstock and> gets reallllll snug near the tail.

Yes, it sounds as if your ways are worn when it is loose near theheadstock and tight near the tail. Atlas did not scrape the ways atthe factory, they were originally ground. So, if you want to go withthe orginial method you would grind them. Scraping may not be anoption depending on how worn the ways really are.

Scraping too will remove less material and the ways should stay closeenough to original thickness that your lead screw, apron etc wouldstill fit. Perhaps you could just live with the condition too. Thinkhard before doing anything.

John in the high desert of California12 inch Atlas Mini Mill Rusty file

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:32:43 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Digest Number 1343

Atlas are different to any others, with all that area of box way, likea big turret lathe. Wear might be logically most on the sides of thebox way, where the area is so much less. Have you checked widths?

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Date: Wed, 05 Feb 2003 23:51:31 -0000From: "joekott1 <joekottx~xxneo.rr.com>" <joekottx~xxneo.rr.com>Subject: gear noise

I searched for this topic but I couldn't find anything. So I am sorry ifI am asking a question that has been asked many times before. I have an

atlas 12" with a quickchange and I find that when I use the gearbox itseems a bit load to me. I am used to running tool room type machines sothis is a bit smaller than I am used to (but it does what I need to doat home). So my question is, is this normal for these lathes and if notwhat can I do to remedy this problem? I cannot adjust the gears withinthe quickchange itself but if there is anything else that can be done Iwould appreciate your help. Thanks all!!

Joe (Ohio)

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 22:08:25 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: gear noise

Your lathe like ours has been around awhile and may have seen indifferentcare and careless use. The pot metal (zamac) alloy used in gear train,and other parts may be worn or sloppy or just plain chewed up(itdeteriorates on its own too.)

Isolate the sound using screw driver to ear technique and investigatesource. May be as simple as using a tacky lube or as expensive asreplacing parts. Everyone who gets an old Atlas or Craftsman Atlas lathewill have to do some troubleshooting or rebuilding, but, that is part ofthe fun. Once you get things up to snuff. Have you contacted ClausingAtlas for owners manual, parts price list and catalog? Owners manualgives you names, numbers, location and relationship of the assembly ofparts that make up your lathe. Surprising, but, oem still supports theproduct.

Louis

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Date: Wed, 5 Feb 2003 23:46:35 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: gear noise

My 12" was up and running for a few months till I heard, what I thought,odd gear noise. I removed one gear at a time until I found the cause.Some chips became imbedded in the soft cast gears and were tearing upthe smaller gears. I had to pick the teeth with a dental pick, neverthought of how appropriate that was till now, to remove the offendingchips. My next piece of equipment will have STEEL gears for sure. Thesesoft parts worry me. Even tho they have stood up thru the test of time.

Hank

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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 11:57:48 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: gear noise

The Atlas is NOT a toolroom-quality lathe, sorry to say. Setting the

gear lash just right definitely helps. The book procedure it to put apiece of paper between the gears and swing the bracket up until thegears pinch the paper. There is also one gear set on the bracket thatis adjustable in its lash with the input gear to the QC. As these gearswear, they do get a bit louder. The faster you run it, the louderthey get. I wear ear protectors most of the time I use the power feed,so the noise doesn't bother me too much.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2003 10:12:16 -0600 (CST)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Scraping ways

A question about the use of "prussian blue". I have a tube of it andwould like to know how to use it. It is quite thick, coming out of thetube. Do you thin it? and, if so, with what?

Leo (dumb in pearland, but will be wiser with the help of your answers)

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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 11:27:07 -0500From: Stan Stocker <skstockerx~xxadelphia.net>Subject: Re: Scraping ways

Hi Leo; Some folks thin it a tad with mineral spirits. The preferred wayto apply it for testing is to spead it out with a printers brayer (hardrubber roller) whenever possible. Obviously this is fine on a surfaceplate, but not so practical in many other places. Squeegees, bits ofhard rubber, anything that works to allow you get a very thin film isOK. If the film is thick, you can't get accurate results, as the goo isthicker than the variations you're trying to find.

Cheers,Stan

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Date: Thu, 06 Feb 2003 12:38:15 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Scraping ways

Generally, no, you don't thin it. You can saturate a paper or clothtowel with it and spread it around. Or, you can get a rubber roller andspread it that way. I am now using a rubber roller with the Canodewater-soluble dye (it washes off the hands more easily) and it workspretty well. You want a dense, but very thin, coating, so it makesa clear mark, but doesn't transfer to the entire part.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 7 Feb 2003 03:26:11 -0500

From: "mertbaker" <MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Digest Number 1345

Prussian blue is the old standby, and famous for being dillicult to get itcleaned off things, hands, etc. afterwards. I stopped using it after thefirst time. Lipstick works as well, is a LOT easier to remove, & as styleschange, it's free.

Mert

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Date: Sun, 9 Feb 2003 12:17:06 -0800From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Re: Adjusting gibs

I guess that you have made the assumption that there is only one settingfor the tension on the gibs. In truth, there isn't one. Sometimes youneed to be able to run the table rapidly with little friction and othertimes, you need to have the table as rigid as possible and will acceptthe additional friction of the gibs holding the table in place. In otherwords, a facile hand at adjusting the gibs is what you need to be ableto do. If you don't need to move that particular motion, I usually clampthe table into place with the gibs and the friction keeps the table frommoving. I'll also note that tight gibs will wear the sliding joint fasterthan loose ones will.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Sun, 09 Feb 2003 20:53:37 -0000From: "Paul <stigsdumpx~xxhotmail.com>" <stigsdumpx~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Atlas 10F apron

Being a recently new member and new to lathes, I'm rebuilding a 10Fthat I purchased for £100....A few parts were broken and missingbut with the help from the group things are almost sorted.At the rear of the apron there is a box casting with a gear shaftrunning through it that traverses the assembly along the lathe bed.Within the box there is another cog................this is a reallypoor fit on the shaft, causing alot of slack when the handwheel isturned,........any ideas on how to remedy the problem.

The fit is very sloppy....the gear itself doesn't look very worn. It'sjust the square hole that fits to the shaft that has a lot of play.

ThanxPaul

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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 09:25:56 EST

From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Atlas 10F apron

Sounds like something a little J B Weld might cure for the time being.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 10 Feb 2003 17:48:34 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Atlas 10F apron

> The fit is very sloppy....the gear itself doesn't look very worn. Its> just the square hole that fits to the shaft that has a lot of play

that gear needs to be permanently fixed to shaft, as it supposedly came

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:25:30 ESTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Indexing kit to fit Replacement Bull Gears (10"/12")

More details later. For now be advised I have an indexing kit made up toindex the 60 holes on the 'bull gear' of a 10" or 12" Atlas lathe. All youneed is a drill, although a drill press is a lot better. Anyone that haspurchased a new gear that is not indexed, this is what you want. Ready togo. Free to list members for the asking, PIC available by request. Gearwas supplied by Frank <frankx~xxdsea.com>. On receipt of kit refund postageand hold for the next needy member.

Regards,Hank

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 02:13:50 ESTFrom: JMartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Craftsman 6" Countershaft Hanger Assembly

s03570x~xxyahoo.com writes:<< It is not broken, the pully shaft has worn out the bushing and mayhave worn on the casting. I am in the process of pressing out thebushings to see if the cast is OK and I will just be able to press innew bushings. If it is to bad I will let you know. Thanks, Steve >>

I had a similar problem with a jackshaft on a milling machine. Shaft hadworn through the bronze bearing and into the cast iron. Most of the castiron was still there - wear spot was maybe 1/6 of the circle.

As there was more than enough cast iron there to locate and hold a newbearing, I simply pushed in a new bearing and filled the gap where thecast iron had worn with JB Weld. Any similar epoxy would do. No realstrength needed - just compressive. Has worked well so far.

John Martin

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 17:10:41 -0700From: "Richard Coyle" <racpropsx~xxcox.net>Subject: RE: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

Well I can use some help, my new/old Atlas lathe was missing the drivebelt and the spindle gears all seem frozen to the shaft, I have removedall the set screws and rear lock ring and freed up the pulley sectionwhich I believe was suppose to free wheel unless engaged by thepush/pull pin in the front gear. (This is how my 12 x 36 works...) Theinstruction sheet that covers some of the parts seems to show a key wayholding the front gear to the shaft, I expected the shaft to slip outor at lease be able to drive it out, so far no such luck and I havesomewhat bashed up the end of my spindle, soft metal these...

Does the drive pulley have set screws?? What for? Or did some fool notknowing how to lock the spindle to the pulley drill and tap this pulleyto lock it to the spindle?? I saw one set on ebay with set screws in itso don't know if this is a common mistake and many have been changedthis way, or is it stock with set screws.

So first, am I right? Second I am in the market for a spindle, andperhaps a front gear. Oh I forgot I have yet to extract my banged upspindle, it can only come out the front toward the bed, Right?? Anysuggestions on how to get it out??

Rich

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:27:31 -0500From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

The set screw in the pulley is just a cover for oil port.What is the model number we are talking about?

Bill Hardinwww.homeshopsupply.com <http://www.homeshopsupply.com>Craftsman & Atlas Lathe Support

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:31:58 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

Get thee to the atlas-press.com site and look up the technical bulletinfor your model/size lathe. There is a specific proceedure to removing

spindle. Print the instructions and study them carefully. If you do notalready have the owners manual, parts price list and catalog call(574) 533-0371 Central Standard Time Monday thru Friday (business hours)and order (about $5) Have make model and serial number ready theyaccept credit cards. The parts you are beating on are the heart of thelathe and tend to be EXPENSIVE and a beating does nothing for accuracyor durability. Look at parts price list and repeat the phrases"Easy does it" and "An ounce of persuasion beats a pound of brute force."

On second thought are you dealing with an Atlas or some other brand.Something about your description sounds odd...need to have flat ways,101....(if Craftsman label) and similar to your 12 inch lathe... ifother brand different solution which am not qualified to give.

Louis

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:14:06 -0700From: "Richard Coyle" <racpropsx~xxcox.net>Subject: RE: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

It is a 618, some where along the line someone used set screws to lockthe pulley to the spindle, that is fixable, the bigger problem is thestuck gear, I have bummed up the end of the shaft trying to drive it out.

I plan on getting a piece of pipe or washers to allow me to pull it outby using the chuck as a puller. Oh I have soaked it with WD 40.

Rich

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:14:06 -0700From: "Richard Coyle" <racpropsx~xxcox.net>Subject: RE: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

I read the instructions and it will/did not help in this case, if thatwould have worked I would already be done. I have a four pageinstruction manual, it showed all the set screws and parts for my model,the unit has been mistreated already for the front gear seems reallyfrozen to the shaft, I can only guess that the fool the used the setscrew to lock the pulley may have done to the front gear, the indexingholes are mostly striped out as I bet they used that to hold the spindlewhen they changed the chuck, not the lock pin in and the back gear tolock the spindle as you should.

Luckily I got a good deal on it and can afford to do the fix up. Now ifI can only get the spindle out with out harming the main housing.

Rich

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 07:47:23 -0700

From: "Richard Coyle" <racpropsx~xxcox.net>Subject: RE: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

Well WD40 and some persuasion with a hammer worked the back gear off thespindle at the cost of the spindle.

And I can see what happened, There was no key in the spindle, so the backgear had scored its self onto the spindle, and the fools had cut a pairof flats into the spindle for the enlarged set screws to hold the pulleyto the spindle.

Question, is there a 1 inch 8 spindle that will work in this model as wellas the stock 1 inch 10?

Rich

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:13:43 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: ID Craftsman Metal Lathe

I think, but am not certain, that the 1" x 8 TPI and 1" x 10 TPIspindles are interchangeable. Even if they are, why would you want the8 TPI spindle? I believe 1" x 10 TPI chucks and attachments are muchmore readily available.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

[SEE 05 MARCH 2003 REPLY IN FILE "ATLAS 618 GEMS" AS TO ADVANTAGES OF 1" X 8 TPI]

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:43:56 -0000From: "rpm2290028 <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>"Subject: Finally chasing 'tenths'

I have a 101.07403, an early model 12x36, and after working for a coupleof years to about 0.001 tolerance, I now have to get down to'tenths',and would appreciate advice from thos of you who've achieved this.

I have a set of 1AT collets, up to 1/2", which does help for thesmaller workpieces, but using my good 4-jaw, I have noticed that I canstill get about 0.003 error while centring with a dial indicator, andpushing hard on the chuck. This disappears after a few hours running,so when the lathe is cold, I've taken to carefully cranking down onthe pre-load, which then eliminated this error.

I have some bed wear near the headstock, about 0.002" as far as I canmeasure, so for working here to get down to tenths, I have snugged upthe gibs and used plenty of way oil. Without using the tailstock, I'mstill getting a three-tenths taper over about an inch, is this normal?I can correct this with careful filing, but I'd like to be able to getcloser if it's possible.

I followed somebody's good advice a while back, and put a small copperdisc under the set screw for the pre-load lock, to protect the spindlethreads underneath, but it appears to be working slightly loose.Hasanyone else had this happen? Do I need to really crank down on theset-screw to extrude the copper more into the threads?

There was a post from Jon a while back, where he talked about theamount the attached motor causes the bed to twist, very relevant when'levelling' the bed. I wondered about taking the motor off the lathe,and mounting it on the bench behind, with the same pivoting set-up tokeep the belt tight, and just use a slightly longer belt. I know thelater models have the motor underneath, in a cabinet?, so this wouldbe a slight move in that direction.

I guess that historically, before cheap electric motors were invented,a lathe like this would have been flat-belt driven anyway, so I'm notproposing too radical a change. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Richard in Los Angeles

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 13:29:32 -0600From: "Randy Pedersen" <rpedersen1x~xxcox.net>Subject: Re: Finally chasing 'tenths'

I don't believe moving the motor will cure the problem. It is not themotor that causes the deflection it is the tightening of the belt. tohelp cure this problem you need to install adjustable brace(s) betweenthe motor and the lathe so the motor will not twist the bed.

Randy

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:36:58 -0000From: "elperkins2003 <sperkinsx~xxcinci.rr.com>"Subject: Re: Finally chasing 'tenths'

You indicate that you are getting accuracy of about 0.0003" over oneinch of cut. This sounds to me like pretty normal accuracy for anold lathe. It is about what I expect to get on my South Bend Heavy10, and almost as good as I get on my 9" South Bend. I have twothoughts. First technique on an old lathe, is to be sure you areturning between centers if at all possible. Then, using a test bar,adjust the cut with the tailstock in the position it will be used inwith the actual workpiece so that you get the same diameter at bothends. On an old worn lathe, this will not necessarily be the same atall places along the bed. You will probably have to make a test barof the same length as your work piece.

If you really want accuracy to a tenth, you will probably have toresort to lapping. You machine as close as you can, probably towithin .001 to .0005" of the desired dimension, and take theremaining material off by lapping with a copper or brass lap(impregnated with abrasive) made to fit the work piece. This would

be a split sleeve for outside lapping, with some provision to tightenit up (hose clamps will do)as it cuts into the work piece. Forinside lapping, you use a lap made to fit the internal dimension thatis split and has a taper reamed in the center. A taper pin is driveninto the center of the lap to expand it ever so slightly as you cutinto the work piece. You lap for a while then clean and measure,then lap some more until you get it right. I have used thistechnique to lap a cylinder and piston on a model desiel engine thatrequired a 6 or 7 to one compression ratio. In other words, a veryvery close fit and finish without piston rings. A great descriptionof lapping is in outlined in the book "The Amature's Lathe, by L.Sparry. This is an old book written with an English twist, that hasa wealth of information in it. I think it is available from LindsayPublications. Years ago I got my copy from Campbell Tools inSpringfield OH. Have fun!

Perk in Cincinnati

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:56:19 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Model 109.xxx

Some MT0 things are available from Campbell tools. I forget the URL, butthere seem to be two of these, one is unrelated to machines, so if yousearch, try adding parameters in Google "advanced search" to eliminatenon-machine versions! At least centers are available, if not chuck arbors.I made a chuck arbor on the 109 for mine.

Other MT0 things are also makeable, and some on the group, notably EarlBower, make parts. The graduated dials are makeable on the machine, Iknow I did, before changing to a larger Logan machine. But the dial is apain due to not having an even number of thousandths per turn, seems likethere is an odd bit left over due to the crosslide screw pitch.

Slop in spindle is due to nose bearing issues, either not tightened right,or possibly worn bell-mouthed. Loose can be tightened with the nut thatshould be behind the bearing next to the large backgear housing on manytypes. Bellmouthed can be reamed parallel, or possibly remade from bronzeif too far gone. Earl Bower makes spindles, and maybe bearings.

Myself, I would put the money towards a small Atlas or Logan, as the109 is afflicted with a too-small spindle for my taste. An Atlas 6"(the "618") is much stiffer and I have seen them sold for as little as$200. I turned one down recently for that, decided I just didn't wantit relative to other things.

Jerrold

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Date: Fri, 7 Mar 2003 18:45:22 EST

From: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Spindle bearing adjustment Craftsman 101.21400

Craftsman is a Sears (Roebuck) brand. Atlas Press made lathes and otheritems sold by Sears under Craftsman brand. Sears model numbers beganwith a three digit source code to identify supplier. There is another latheoften confused with Craftsman/Atlas(101.xxx) made by AA Engineering(109.xxx)

The two companies each made a six inch lathe which strange as it may seemused same change gears. Whenever discussing a Craftsman brand lathe it helpsto sort out which supplier's lathe is involved. See a lot of confusionperpetrated on ebay by sellers hoping buyer will assume they are biddingon more valuable of the two machines....Caviat Emptor or something like that.

Atlas made machines over a period of time and I believe used Timken TaperRoller Bearings, plain bearings and I am told oilite or similar bearings.Correcting spindle endplay on the different bearings might differ dependingon bearing type. The site I referred you to has very specific proceedure forTimken Tapered Roller Bearing headstock...if you don't have that typebearing instructions might not apply in whole or in part. Atlas manual haddirections for dealing with plain bearings and Timken bearings...no mentionin my book of oilite type bearing care.

Louis

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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 18:01:08 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Rebuilding Lathe

Have just finished assembly and tryout of Craftsman/Atlas 6 inch lathe101.21400 project and I have the following comments to offer to anyoneconsidering this...

1) A worn bed can be economically reground to better than new condition.2) Carriage should also be checked. Gibs should to hold evenly across full range of motion both bed way and cross slide.3) Compound should also be checked to see if gibs hold evenly through full range of motion and may also be improved by a grind.

When you assemble the slop and stick slip of gibs is gone!Assemble carriage on bed with all shims in place...measure slop and then

remove and take out an appropriate shim thickness...if you need more havehalf of retainer plate ground to fit up snug and install shims as needed.

My enthusiasim for this project may be excessive, but, the resultscertainly justified the time and expense. You can rejuvinated TiredOld Iron to better than new even if you don't have a journeyman machinerepairman's card!

no digital camera no pix and it is too big to set on scanner!Truth be told before, during and after pictures would have told astory...and might have led to questions about my sanity for buyingan obvious junker.

But, no picture could demonstrate smooth almost frictionless traversethru full range of motion of carriage and cross slide with zero slack ingibs...that you would have to experience and appreciate how good it canget. I suspect original Atlas finish left much to be desired. A verylearning experience. Proof of pudding is of course is it accurate?That awaits some testing and use.

Bed about $60.00 to have top, front and back and bottom of rails groundto mirror flat finish with (much) less than 0.001 variance in allmeasurements. Carriage about $40.00 and it was more in need than bed.The project would not have turned out right if grinder had not noticedneed for additional work on carriage to clean up cross slide. This isa tricky set up as it must reference from surface of carriage thatfaces front rail surface.

Could have carried grinding to compound, but, it seems ok although noas smooth so left it alone for now.

If you have a machine that needs rejuvinating this is one way to go.Another is to buy a good used bed off ebay(may be cheaper). I found somuch wrong with carriage riding surfaces that even a new bed wouldn'thave given satisfaction. Reconditioning of sliding surfaces changedjunk to jewel! If anyone is considering this I would be glad to answerany questions.

Louis

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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 23:55:55 -0000From: "rpm2290028" <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>Subject: TIR of Spindle Bore

I posted a while back about having to chase 'tenths' on an early 12x36101.07403. In my search for errors to tweak, I was surprised to find aTIR of about 0.003-4" in my set of Hardinge collets, when fitted inthe spindle and tightened up.I checked the TIR with a brand new #3 dead centre that I just use foraccurate centering, and found the same runout as the collets. I verycarefully used another new but cheap dead centre to grind out thetaper with very fine grinding paste, which took out any grungy bits,gave a nice smooth finish,(except for odd deep scratches etc) and

improved the runout to about 0.0015".Is this normal for these lathes? This one has about 0.002" of bed wearat 6" - 18" from the headstock, about 0.007" loss of height on thetailstock which has been shimmed out, but the bearings are in goodshape, so I'm wondering why this error?How much would it cost, roughly, to have this spindle re-ground to abetter tolerance? Has anyone had this done? I have a good 4-jaw whichi can get down to 0.0002" but I would like the collets to be moreaccurate than this, they fit inside the spindle with a draw-bar.I am very leary of trying to improve this with a reamer...

Richard in Los Angeles

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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:42:19 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: TIR of Spindle Bore

In a message dated 3/13/03 5:59:14 PM Central Standard Time,richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com writes:> 4-jaw which> i can get down to 0.0002" but I would like the collets to be more> accurate than this, they fit inside the spindle with a draw-bar.

i think it unrealistic to expect much better han 1/2 thou out of a colletset up on a/c lathe,but u certainly shoud be able to get spindle runout tothat......brought mine back to .0003+ w/ a morse reamer CAREFULLY(easy)w/OUT any tailstock support..........ur progress so far tells me would encourage me to use a reamer......on 3 different machines ,the reamer has worked ............i wouldguess that ur bearings wont hold .0002 runout..........1 1/2 thou runoutis unacceptable to me & the reamer is where i would start .....there areothers who would not , but i trust a reamer in situ over a regrind onanother machine by an unknown hand.......

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:26:57 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: TIR of Spindle Bore

>gave a nice smooth finish,(except for odd deep scratches etc) and>improved the runout to about 0.0015".

Most likely, this is normal. The best thing to do is use a dial testindicator on the taper inside the spindle, and read it at several depths.If there is no runout there, then your collets are bad (not likely).But, I suspect you'll find the runout is in the spindle taper.

You can set up a toolpost grinder or good die grinder and align the

compound swivel to follow the side of the taper. make surethe compound slide runs straight and doesn't follow a curved path dueto wear, like my old Atlas did. Then, you can run a fine stone in andout to true up the spindle socket.

You can fit a known-good arbor (not a collet) with blue dye to makesure the taper angle is correct. When the arbor puts dye all over thespindle socket, and the grinder has cut all around, then you're there!

>How much would it cost, roughly, to have this spindle re-ground to a>better tolerance? Has anyone had this done?

It is best to do this ON the machine, so the runout of the bearings andspindle are all cancelled in the position they are assembled in.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 08:01:28 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: TIR of Spindle Bore

> It is best to do this ON the machine, so the runout of the bearings and> spindle are all cancelled in the position they are assembled in.

This is true, UNLESS you are going to have to siassemble the spindleassembly. My Atlas' are not lathes, so I don't know the degree to whichthe bearings are disturbed replacing the belt on the Atlas lathe. On someothers, the relationship of bearing to spindle is destroyed.

But, it would be prudent to get a belt not requiring disassembly toreplace. Otherwise you may find your runout DOUBLED after beltreplacement, if runouts and ground correction are in position to add,not subtract...

Jerrold

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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:47:46 -0000From: "gppaine2001" <gppainex~xxaol.com>Subject: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

As a proud owner of two Atlas 10s, I have enjoyed following thisgroup chat for some time now. I am always learning.I picked up an inexpensive 109 lathe last fall that I am just gettingaround to setting up. Why, with two larger lathes? I guess I amjust fascinated with the cute little thing.

After cleaning it up and studying it for a while now, musing over DCvariable power, jackshafts or not, etc., I find I could use the advice ofthis group on the half nuts. When I engage the half nuts, the screw bowsout from the lathe by .030 inches. This is obviously enough to cause

excessive wear, and when the carriage is near head or tailstock, it causesbinding. The screw is straight and true until the half nuts are engaged.It looks like I might be able to put a shim between the halfnut mechanismand the carriage, but there may be a better way.

Has the group any ideas? Is this common on these lathes?

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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:52:11 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

gppainex~xxaol.com writes: > engage the half nuts,> the screw bows out from the lathe by .030 inches

no experience w/ 109, but i would disconnect the l/screw hanger x~xx thet/stock end & see if screw moves out ... take appropriate remedial action

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Thu, 13 Mar 2003 21:15:52 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

My old one did it, I think I shimmed it at the half nuts, but I don'tremember. Watch out the lead screw isn't bent.

Jerrold

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Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2003 17:39:31 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

In a message dated Fri, 14 Mar 2003 00:47:46 -0000, gppaine2001 writes:<< [SNIP] I might be able to put a shim between the halfnut mechanism andthe carriage, but there may be a better way. Has the group any ideas? >>

I think better to shim the leadscrew bearings out by .030" or whatever ittakes. Much simpler and probably the way the factory would do it. (Ifthis involved a QC gearbox it might need some rethinking.)

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Date: Sat, 15 Mar 2003 08:36:39 -0600

From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxcyberedge.net>Subject: Re: Re: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

Not to fuss, but the problem is likely the wear in the half-nutassembly, or possibly a P.O. didn't do something right. Also, the LSis fixed in position on the 109s I have seen due to its bearing at theHS end being in the main casting. Therefore shim halfnuts unless theLS tail bearing is actually out of line with HS end.

Jerrold

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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 16:38:00 -0000From: "gppaine2001" <gppainex~xxaol.com>Subject: Re: AA 109 lathe half nut alignment

I'd like to thank all those who responded. The headstock andtailstock bearings are both machined in cast bosses on the 109, so noadjustment there. The leadscrew was not bent. I therefore electedto shim the half nuts into alignment. This was a bit more involvedthan I originally estimated and required removal of the carriage.The screw that provides the bearing surface for the halfnut leverengages a threaded bushing in the lever and was factory peened inthree spots to keep it from unscrewing. To disassemble, I had todisassemble the carriage assembly and clamp it in my mill to machineaway the deformed area.

When disassembled, I noticed that the bearing surface on the halfnutlever was covered in worn factory paint. Cleaning that up caused meto have to add another .004 shim to the .030 shim I had so carefullymade. On reassembly, I was pleased to experience smooth halfnutengagement with no bowing or binding of the screw and halfnuts.

Thanks again,Gary

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Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 21:24:21 -0000From: "emers2275" <Emers2275x~xxaol.com>Subject: Atlas 6"

I have a problem with my lathe. The carriage crank wheel won'tmove the carriage. I looked behind the apron and it looks like thegear that runs on the rack is turning but not engaging the rack. Iwas just wondering if anyone knew if there is an adjustment for thisgear for the depth it sits into the rack. Possibly the gear is wornout but it doesn't look like it. Maybe someone has already had thisproblem and can give me an idea what is causing this. I haven't tookthe carriage off yet. The lathe is an Atlas Clausing 6"--I don't knowthe model. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you for your time.

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 10:29:52 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.com

Subject: Re: Atlas 6"

First confirm lathe is an Atlas. Does it have flat ways? If sold bySears under Craftsman brand look at tag. Does model number begin with101? If not an Atlas made lathe cure for problem is different.

If an Atlas or Craftsman/Atlas try the following:remove lead screw by removing the four slotted screws that attach leadscrew bearings to lathe bed the slide leadscrew assembly out of carriagetoward the headstock end of lathe bed.With lead screw now removed you can slide carriage toward tailstock endof bed and off bed. Turn carriage over and remove 3 screws holding plateand shims over gear area. Look for loose screws, broken zinc casting,crud. There is not much there so problem should be obvious even if youare inexperienced.

Clean and oil everything before you even think about reassembly.Assemble in reverse order of disassembly. No force is required. If itdoes not fall into place something needs to be adjusted. Easy does it.

6 inch Atlas lathe is easy to take apart repair and reassemble as nospecial tools, talent or knowledge required. Just remember to use theopportunity to clean, oil and adjust and never use force as it is notrequired. This is not a sledgehammer job!

If you run into a problem ask group. They been there done that.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 17 Mar 2003 16:25:22 -0000From: "emers2275" <Emers2275x~xxaol.com>Subject: Atlas 6"

The tag on the tailstock end of the bed says Atlas at thetop, then model no. 10100, sn 005872, then at the bottom it saysClausing Corporation, Kalamazoo, Michigan. I looked at the bottom ofthe carriage again behind the apron and it looks like the gearboxthat runs the gear may be loose from the bottom of the carriage--itlooks like theres a gap between the two. Thanks for your help. I'lllet you know what I find when I get it apart.

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Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 00:02:04 -0000From: "Damon" <dgentilex~xxspf.fairchildsemi.com>Subject: loooongbed ?

Hey guys. I've got a 10" lathe on a 36" bed that has seen betterdays. It measures 0.003" narrower near the head than at the tail.As luck would have it, I picked up a near virgin 54" bed last week.

Now the obvious thing would be to swap all the stuff from the36" onto the 54" and call it a day. But, then I have a 36" bed withnothing to do with, and probably not a lot of value either.

Add in the fact that my current bench (300# of steel, tabletop is10x3x1/2" c-channel) is just big enough for the 36" bed.

Sooooooo I was thinking about getting a stout platform, maybe8"x3"x1/4" wall box beam, or maybe an I-beam 8" wide. 8 feetlong though - Mount the headstock and carraige on the 54" bed.And to the right of that, mount the 36" bed (empty). So I willhave all the functionality of the 10x54, and for those loooongpieces, the ability to support them on the 36" bed.

I think it would probably be a major pain in the tail (bad pun intended)to get the beds close to aligned. Start by truing the 54", then work onalignment of the 36. And I dont know that I'd be able to use thetailstock on the 36" bed. But - I bet I could pull it off using a fixedsteady. Off center if need be to be able to turn true.

So is this totally a stupid idea? Requiring a VERY stout base of course.

Thoughts?-Damon (trying to resist the temptation of the 12x54 on ebay now)

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Date: Wed, 02 Apr 2003 03:18:26 -0000From: "mrb37211" <cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net>Subject: Re: loooongbed ?

Damon - Some folks in the 7x10 mini-lathe group (on Yahoo) have donethis more-or-less. I think they actually grafted the beds together.Also, Atlas sold "extension beds" for the old-style 6x18 and the 10"(maybe old-style 12" also) lathes. So it is very doable. I've got a54" bed 10 and the extension bed which may end up in a similarconfiguration. Good luck and keep us posted.

Charles

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Date: Wed, 2 Apr 2003 05:02:20 -0500From: "Cindy/Wayne" <burner4x~xxadelphia.net>Subject: Re: loooongbed ?

Damon, I too have had these strange thoughts of taking two beds and makeone long one. I have also thought I should cut a section out and makesome extra bed feet and make a gap bed A/C lathe.I had a 12x24" and Iwanted something longer between centers. Got a deal on a 12x30" and usedthat for a while, but wanted an even longer bed. now have a 10F x 36that was like new when puchased second hand, and have only a couple ofjobs that could have used a couple more inches of length( story of mylife(<: ). When I put up my new hobby shop this year ,and the lathe getsmoved out to larger spaces, I still may go for the same idea with thetwo beds end to end to take the long jobs. Have you thought about leadscrew length and rack gear?

Good luck,Wayne(rice)Burner

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Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 21:36:27 +0100From: "Ernest Lear" <Ernestx~xxelear2.fsnet.co.uk>Subject: Re: Getting the swivel off

From: "Brian Squibb" <brianx~xxsquibb.org.uk>> How do I take the swivel off my 10F? I think I should just> be able to wind it off the saddle? Have got it off the end of> screw but am reluctant to use some 'gentle' persuasion with the> 5 pound hammer Thanks Brian

What you have to do is undo the screw bush housing (10F-46), the largenut up against the saddle. The handle and all at this end of the spindlehave to be dismantled first to allow the spindle to move rearwards. Undothe screw at the back of the saddle that holds the brass nut (10F-19)and press it down and out of its hole in the saddle. Remove the spindleand nut. Now all you have to do is slide the swivel away and back tillit comes off. Make sure you loosen the gib (10-56) and take care of itas you will need it when you come to re-assembling.

I just did it plus taking all the rest of my lathe apart. As tomorrowI'm taking my bed for regrinding at a machine shop that houses a 13foot long surface grinder. And my 3 foot bed will fit nicely on it.This took a bit of finding as most can only surface grind up to 24" max.Then I will hand scrape the saddle to a perfect fit on the bed. I didthis (scraping) last about 50 years ago and I'm sure I still can do it.All the jobs I have listed and I will do as it goes together again. ThenI will have a Atlas as good as new. Most of the bits required havealready been made on this machine and some, by using a Unimat lathe,which I also have.

Last week I made a new MS screw (10F-36) and its nut out of P/bronze.I also made the acme die used to thread this screw as I only had aLH 1/2 Acme Tap. It worked perfectly. Removed the .74mm of backlashin this worn assembly; now it is only .03mm on the new home-made one.I'm pleased with that.

RegardsErnest

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Date: Sun, 06 Apr 2003 21:36:14 +0100From: Brian Squibb <brianx~xxsquibb.org.uk>Subject: Re: Getting the swivel off

Thanks Ernest - I am going to fit a T slotted table.

When you have finished yours and have nothing to do, shall I post minedown for the same treatment? :)

Brian

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Date: Sun, 6 Apr 2003 22:43:30 +0100

From: "Ernest Lear" <Ernestx~xxelear2.fsnet.co.uk>Subject: Re: Getting the swivel off

Not Bloody likely but maybe if the price is right.

Ernest

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Date: Mon, 7 Apr 2003 10:20:00 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Digest Number 1426

After you loosen the screws and backed them out a ways then you twist,wiggle, pull and jostle to get it off. There are pins under the screwsthat engage the undercut on the saddle. Don't use a hammer. Might tryto use a magnet or as I did one time put a bit of sticky stuff on theend of a thin stick (long Q tip) and pull the pin loose.

John in the high desert of California

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Date: Mon, 28 Apr 2003 15:48:20 -0000From: "hankshadow" <HUNLEY31x~xxaol.com>Subject: Bull gear index

Just a reminder. If anyone needs their new 10",12" bull gear indexedI have a jig made up that's free to list members. You pay postage andmaintain custody till another member need it. Contact me off linefor details and a PIC if you like.

Larry

LARRY'S FOLLOW-UP ON 30 APRIL 2003:Try here (both lines together for the address):http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/lst?.dir=/Index+Kit++Bull+gear&.src=gr&.order=&.view=t&.done=http%3a//briefcase.yahoo.com/

I can send the same pic if you require. In a nutshell the kit consistsof an old gear drilled thru and machined to fit flush, alignment pins,drill bit, and assy. holder. Free you pay postage.

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Date: Sat, 3 May 2003 00:45:59 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Help with carrage problem

Hi all: I own a 12 inch Atlas, loose change gears, power cross feed bypulling on a knob. Today was turning some shafts out of that cold rolledsteel from the hardware store. Lousy stuff for turning! Anyway all of asudden my carrage would not crank back for a second cut. The carrageseemed to lock up going either direction after only a couple of turns onthe hand wheel. Pretty obvious a chunk of swarf caught on the gear trainfrom the hand wheel to the rack under the bed.

I wanted to clean that gear train so thought if I took out the two largecross headed screws in the top of the carrage the apron would drop offexposing that gear train. Took the screws out and everything still seemsto be together as before. I have the parts drawings etc, but I am afraidto pry, pound or whatever to release the apron.

Always before when I wanted to do anything in the apron or cross slide Iwould remove it by taking out the bearing at the right end and simplycranking the whole carrage off the end of the bed. This time I can't dothat since the carrage will only move a short distance before locking up.Any advice for getting to the gears inside the apron would certainly beappreciated, as everything now is in fair adjustment and don't want tomess anything up.

John in the high desert of California12 inch Atlas Mini Mill Rusty file

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Date: Sat, 03 May 2003 00:38:31 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Help with carrage problem

You really need to pull the leadscrew before doing this. If the rackreally is just blocked with swarf (somewhat unusual) you can drop theapron 1/8" or so to allow the pinion some slack.

There are 2 big dowel pins that align the apron. You may have to pry abit, depending on how tightly the dowels gripping the holes in the apron.You might leave the 2 Phillips head screws partly in, and tap on themgently, then apply a little pressure evenly once a gap opens up.

I'm afraid you may have more trouble than swarf in the rack. There is aZamak piece that holds the reduction gears for the carriage pinion, andit is prone to cracking. When it lets go, the whole works can fall rightout, or it can bind things up. There are 3 screws on the front of theapron around the carriage crank. You can see the mechanism from the leftside of the apron.

You might check for looseness of the screws, and watch or feel formovement of the bracket when you rock the carriage crank. If youcan feel the bracket move when you turn the crank, the bracket is likelybroken. Some people have had good luck epoxying or soldering (? youcan't braze Zamak, the melting point is too low) this Zamak part. Othershave made a new piece out of solid aluminum billet or steel.

Umm, one thing comes to mind, the halfnuts couldn't have dropped intoengagement whithout you noticing it, could they? That will bind thecarriage, for sure.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 6 May 2003 00:15:08 EDT

From: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Need advice on change gears

azbrunox~xxyahoo.com writes:> I'm trying to set up different threading gears on my lathe, but I'm> having trouble removing gears. I could use some advice; I don't want> to force anything.

Light force is the way to go here. The die cast gears on an Atlas fitpretty tight onto the bushings. What I do is to use a pry bar (old beatup screw driver) to pry a bit at a time at several locations around theedge of the gears. Don't pry too hard as that die cast metal is gettingold by now. Just kind of rock the gear loose. I have had to in somegears on an Atlas to lightly break the edge of the mounting hole andkeyway with a fine needle file to remove what is apparently mold flashon some of the gears. Better a tight fit than sloppy.

John in the high desert of California

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Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 16:53:32 -0400From: Ronald Thibault <thib9564x~xxbellsouth.net>Subject: Re: Bushing Carriage Handwheel

At 04:34 PM 5/13/2003 +0000, you wrote:>Dear Group,>I'm finally getting round to puting in a bushing for my handwheel>spindle on my 12x54 101.07403 lathe, but am having trouble finding a>bushing source. I imagine that I'll have to bore out the new bushing>to fit the shaft exactly, since the ID of an off the shelf size is>unlikely to match. I obviously don't want a pre-hardened drill>bushing, as machining it will be too difficult. Has anyone done this>vital task on their own lathe, and can point me in the right>direction? I've already tried J&L, Travers, KBC, Airgas, Reid and>Wholesale Tools. Thanks in advance, Richard in Los Angeles

I mounted my apron to an angle plate mounted on the topslide. Ibored the handwheel, and countersank it to take sintered bronzeflanged bearings. you can see a picture of it in the Atlas Lathe IIsection of my web site (address below).

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USAhttp://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/

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Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 18:19:17 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Bushing Carriage Handwheel

You may be supprised at what i available for bushings! Stop by a goodbearing place and see what they have in stock and available for orderfor bushings. You may need to do either the inside or outside of abushing to make it fit perfectly but there are really a lot ofdifferent ones available.

Bob May

http://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 21:20:25 -0400From: "piggy" <piggyx~xxaccessatc.net>Subject: Re: Bushing Carriage Handwheel

and i easily made a bushing for the very place talked about here. alsomade a new nut for the compound on my atlas , that wasnt so easy butthe next one will be easier as i now have the tool made to cut theinternal acme threads that were required.

Don T.EVO Power & Machine www.accessatc.net/~piggy www.snartracing.com

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Date: Wed, 14 May 2003 16:00:36 -0000From: "joekott1" <joekottx~xxneo.rr.com>Subject: Re: Bushing Carriage Handwheel

Richard, I am probably going to undertake the same project very soon(wife willing). I plan on sourcing a bronze bushing from McMaster. Theyhave a fantastic web site that makes it easy to find parts (pardonthe mcmaster plug). Hope this helps and good luck! www.mcmaster.com

Joe

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Date: Sat, 14 Jun 2003 22:32:29 -0000From: "speedphoto300" <speedphoto300x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Play in the carriage hand wheel

> On my Atlas 10"-F series there is a small amount of play in the> carriage hand wheel. When I rotate the hand wheel (clockwise or> counter clockwise) the wheel will turn about a quarter inch before> the carriage will move along the bed. How do I get rid of this play?

It's supposed to be that way, the handwheel drives the carriagethrough a gear reduction to the rack on the bed. The whole thing willbind up if there isn't clearance in the gear train. 1/4 inch isn'tout of line. If there is a lot more than this it's possible that theZamac housing for the reduction gears is cracked, not an uncommonproblem.

Joe

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Date: Sun, 15 Jun 2003 01:27:37 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Play in the carriage hand wheel

First, check the large Phillips head screws on the apron. If they areloose, you get this. If not, there is a reduction gear train that a lot

of people don't know to oil. There are 3 oiler ports on the apron, andyou need to get some oil on there every once in a while or the bushings(or lack of them, actually) get opened up on the shaft the handwheelruns on, and the intermediate gear. When it gets bad enough, the holesneed to be bored out and have brass or bronze bushings installed. But,your amount of play sounds very normal. I've never seen an Atlaswith less.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 2003 12:29:13 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Feed Reverse Lever Chatter

dk_gip wrote:> I'm getting a lot of chatter ( or whatI think is a lot of chatter ) in> the feed reverse lever when it's engaged forward or reverse on my Atlas> QC 10F.This lever is vibrating pretty good and I am wondering if this> is normal. When the lever is in neutral everything sounds great...nice> and smooth. I just need a few reference points on the way things> should sound when the lathe is running.

When in neutral, the gear train is not engaged. When engaged,all the gears are spinning, and Atlas machines do tend to havenoisy gear trains. but, the lever itself doesn't rattle on mine.There are ways to adjust the gear lash, and I suspect that is whatis wrong. The manual says to put a piece of thin card stock(I'm guessing that is between .010 and .015") between the gears,engage them, and lock the setting there. The plate the reversinglever detents into can be moved to adjust gear lash a bit, but it isa compromise between F and R. There is an extended handleunder the lower gear cover that allows you to set the lash betweenthe next gears in the chain and the reversing tumbler gear.There is a nut on a movable bushing that sets the lash betweenthe intermediate gears and the QC box. Any or all of thesecould be too loose or too tight. When you get it right, it shouldn'tshake, but will still make a fair bit of noise, much louder than whenthe gears sre disengaged. I only run the gear train when actually usingthreading or power feed.

>Another dumb question: On the back-gear, the smaller gear the drives>the "bull" has a nice crack along one of the teeth. Do not use>the back gear right!

If part of the tooth remains, you might be able to continue using itunder light loads. If the entire part of the tooth that engages the bullgear is gone, then it could bind up, so you need to repair it. There areways to epoxy, pin or solder on replacement teeth that have beendescribed in the past. Or, you could get a replacement gear on eBayor some other source for used parts.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 17 Jun 2003 11:47:42 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 101.07403 lubrication

jrw064 wrote:>I recently noticed that the lead screw support at the tailstock end>does not look like it is taking lubrication properly, the spot near>the drive gears takes lubrication fine. Does one have to dismantle>the support from the leadscrew on the tailstock end or is there an>alternate method for this. I suspect that the hole is plugged, but>was wondering about how to correct this issue.

It depends on whether this is a sintered bronze bushing, plain Zamak withno bushing, or babbit with an oil hole. I thought these were just ahole bored in the Zamak, but I could be wrong. (Or, it could have beenrepaired.) On the two Atlas lathes I've had, these bearings didn't takemuch oil, either. One drop a week was plenty.

It is VERY easy to take the support off and inspect, and set the thrustbearing clearance. Literally a 5 minute job to remove, clean, inspect,relube and reinstall! Don't let it intimidate you!

(When I got my first lathe, I was intimidated too, but eventually foundout there were no intricate alignments that could be thrown off bydisassembling the thing.)

Jon

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 19:46:10 -0400From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: spindle [AA 109 REMOVAL PROCEDURE]

Great. To remove the spindle, standing at the back of the machine,remove the split collar on the far right inside the headstock. Thiswill allow the back gear assembly and pulley to slide to the right,exposing a woodruff key in the spindle. Remove the woodruff key. Removethe spindle gear on the end of the spindle on your right, just outsidethe headstock. Loosen the nut that adjusts the tapered bearing on theleft of the headstock. It is not necessary to remove this nut, althoughyou can and allow it to float on the spindle.

At this point, nothing is holding the spindle. It will slide out to theleft, toward the tailstock. It may have the tapered bearing snugged down,but you have loosened the nut and it may move slightly to the left. Thespindle should move freely to the left. If necessary, take a piece of1/2" wooden dowel and tap it lightly with a hammer to remove.Once the spindle is removed, you will be left with a bronze sleeve bearingon the right side of the headstock (3/4" OD, 1" long, 0.550" ID) and thesplit taper bearing on the left with the nut.

The weakest spot in the whole 109 is the threaded nose, just into the 1/2 x20 tpi thread. When you consider a 1/2" threaded nose with a #0 morse taperthrough it, you can see that there is insufficient "meat" to take too muchabuse. You have the option when replacing it to go to a 3/4" x 16 tpispindle. This is the best answer, unless you are too heavily committed to

1/2" chucks and plates. Hope this helps.

Bill Hardinwww.homeshopsupply.com <http://www.homeshopsupply.com>Craftsman 109 Lathe Support

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Date: Mon, 23 Jun 2003 17:58:44 -0700 (PDT)From: Chris Hamel <flyhighchrisx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: RE: spindle

Good directions. Just don't make the mistake I did. I knew it was a badidea to tap on end of the spindle to remove it, so I thought it wouldbe OK to tap on the back of the chuck lightly to pull the spindle out.I ended up bending the spindle and had to have a replacement made.

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 00:36:38 -0400From: "Kevin J Wilby" <x11522914x~xxmailcity.com>Subject: RE: spindle

allright, i've done what i can, and what seems to still be attached isthe thing next to the pully steps, with gears in it and a metal shellaround it. that thing is still there. i took off the two screws of theshell and looked at the gears but there's no way they're coming off.it's obvious that something is still attached because that spindleisn't budging. is there anything i can do about that? thanks

kevin

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 07:50:28 -0700 (PDT)From: Chris Hamel <flyhighchrisx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: RE: spindle

Kevin, if you have removed the split collar, and slid the pulley assemblyback to remove the woodruff key, the spindle should slide out. Thisassumes you have backed off the nut on the front tapered bearing and youhave also need to remove the gear at the back end of the spindle. Thespindle may be a bit tight, so you may have to use a 1/2 inch dowel totap on the tail end. Don't try to push or pull it out any other way.Good Luck.

Chris

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Date: Tue, 24 Jun 2003 23:35:02 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: spindle

Another point, if the spindle is worn, the grooves in it and the bearingmay have interlocked so that they won't like to slide apart. Mine didthat. I ended up re-reaming the bearing and smoothing the spindle, andfinally made another spindle.

Anyhow, take the nut all the way off the back of the bearing (just infront of the backgear housing) and slide out the spindle AND bearingtogether, for separation outside.

Jerrold

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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 14:09:43 -0000From: "joekott1" <joekottx~xxneo.rr.com>Subject: apron removal and boring

I am working on removing the apron on my Craftsman 12" so that I canre-bore and bush the hole for the carriage handwheel. There is way tomuch play in the bore for my liking so it needs a little work -sounds like this might be a common problem? I removed the two boltson the top of the saddle but the apron will not budge. I cannot seeanything else holding the apron onto the saddle. Are there additionlbolts holding the two together somewhere? I do plan on tearing thewhole thing down to mount it for the boring operation but I thought Iwould ask the group if anyone has any advice on this littleproject/nightmare. Thanks in advance for all of your help!

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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 11:02:07 -0400From: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: apron removal and boring

JoeKott, you're on the right track. You have removed the leadscrew right?Anyway the apron is held in place with the two allen head screws that youhave removed. It's held in alignment by two small pins that seat in thecarriage. Try putting the allen screws back in, but not tight. Allow themto stick up past the surface of the carriage. Tap down on the screws gentlyand evenly to separate the two casting. You could accomplish the same thingwith 'prying'. I think the tap the screw method is easier and less likelyto cause damage. Hope this helps some.

Hank

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Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2003 13:15:01 -0400From: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: apron removal and boring

>> Since this business of removing the apron has been brought up severaltimes in the few weeks I've been on the list, it must be a frequent problem.I'm gonna have to do it on the PB, and unless you guys with much moreexperience warn me off it, I'm gonna D&T the apron 1/4"NF twice in linewith and close to the locator pins, so I can drive in jack screws if Iever have to do it again. I imagine that to maintain accuracy, the pinshave to be an interference fit? <<

I think that after the first time you remove it you won't have a problemin the future. Your only concern will be not to drop the apron afteryour first tap on the screws.

Hank

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Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2003 08:04:43 -0400From: Ronald Thibault <thib9564x~xxbellsouth.net>Subject: Re: Re: sphere (Atlas) gear case for manuual feed

>><< I don't know how best to describe it but here goes,behind thecarriage the feed screw passes through a triangular casting which hasa shaft with small gear at one end (16DP 12 tooth) Which I have had toreplace but that is another story, and a larger gear at the other endpassing at right angles to the feed screw, it is this casting that hascracked if you have a spare. the forward handle operates through thesegears. hope I have explained it OK. >>

Brian; I fixed mine using epoxy and a length of brass strip, on myold lathe. There is a short article on the repair on my web site(address below).

Ron Thibault Warrenville, SC USAhttp://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/t/h/thib9564/

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Date: Sat, 9 Aug 2003 12:31:00 EDTFrom: Sagebush9x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: sphere (Atlas) gear case for manuual feed

Jo, my "gearcase"(12", 101.28990) was broken too, one mounting foot wasbroken off-I took it out to measure it up w/intentions of making one onthe mill. I had some "aluminum" welding rod laying on the bench that Ibought just to try on another al. part I needed to build up...decidedto see if it would weld Zamak, since it was broken anyway...surprise!It actually stuck, not pretty, but functional. I will still make one,but now I can use the lathe meantime. "Weld-it" rod, made by Hobart,

p/n 770206. As they say, your results may vary...

Ron in CO...

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Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 23:11:08 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 12 x 36 Lubrication for Back Gear

rpm2290028 wrote: >Dear Group,>I have an early 12 x 36, 101.07403, with timken bearings and the 3/8">ways. I am now starting to use the back gear a lot more, and I am>concerned that the back gear part of the main spindle isn't getting>enough lubrication. I am aware of the lubrication hole under the>set-screw in the second pulley, but I have no set-screw in mine( the>original pulleys that came with the lathe)and the hole in the bottom>appears to be a blind hole, I put oil in there but it doesn't appear to go>immediately on to the spindle. Can you actually see the spindle through>this hole, or does the oil penetrate sideways along the inner spindle?

My understanding of this (I've had this apart a few times, but alwaysforgot to take a good look at the bushings in the pulley) is that thereare two brass or bronze bushings pressed into the ends of the pulley.This makes the center of the pulley a sort of oil reservoir. If the crudis cleared away, you should be able to see the spindle through thehole. The parts manual actually shows the bushings as separate parts.

>I had the whole headstock apart a couple of years ago, and>everything appeared to be in very good shape, so I am hoping that>this hole is also okay. I can see a clean bottom to the hole, so its>not plugged up with crud at all. Any ideas?

Hmmm, this is very odd. They might drill the hole in such a mannerthat there is a very small break-through right in the center, only, forthe oil to get into the interior of the pulley. They can't drill this holeall the way through or the screw would bottom out on the spindle.You want the screw to bottom out on something that serves thepurpose of a seal, so that it doesn't start slinging the oil all overthe place, especially on the belt.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 08:21:58 -0500From: "Thomas Petersen" <petersentx~xxpipeline.com>Subject: RE: 12 x 36 Lubrication for Back Gear

Another possibility is that they did not drill the hole through properly(or drill an oil port in the bottom of the hole). On my Atlas 7" Shaper,the oil hole for the "Ram Adjusting Screw and Crank Lever Pin" was ablind hole. I found this while rebuilding the entire machine. I cleanedand scraped the bottom of the hole, but there was no hole (oil port) tolet the oil out the bottom of the hole. So, when I had it disassembled,

I drilled one. I always wondered how many people over the life of thismachine followed the instructions on the Lubrication Chart to "Oilliberally every time the shaper is used".

I am not exactly sure how similar the spindles are between the Atlasmiller and Atlas lathe. But, based on Jon's description, it seems thatthe miller has a scaled down version of the same basic spindle pulleyconfiguration. I just had the spindle on my Atlas MFB mill apart. Thespindle pulley has two bronze bushing, one on each side with the oilhole between. The oil set screw hole for the spindle pulley is drilledthrough and tapped almost all the way through. The treads are notcomplete at the bottom of the hole. With the set screw out and a flashlight, I can easily see the spindle and part of the front bronze bushing.

Hope this helps,Tom.

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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 2003 23:19:43 -0000From: "rpm2290028" <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>Subject: Re: 12 x 36 Lubrication for Back Gear-Success!

Thanks Jon and Tom for your timely advice, good to get the ol' brainworking. I took the whole headstock apart, which was a lot easier thanthe first time, which makes me wonder why I put it off :-)

Perhaps everything slid apart because it was now all oiled nicely!

The problem was that the two bushings were actually pushed together,so there was virtually no space between them, I was looking at theoutside of the second bushing at the bottom of the oiling hole. Icarefully pressed one out, so I could move the second one into itsproper position, then the first one back in place. I was lucky, theremust have been enough oil that seeped through the crack between the twobushings to provide enough lubrication. This is probably how they wereinstalled by the factory, otherwise why would you move one out of place?

It's probably a good thing for us all to check that oil is going whereit's supposed to, otherwise it could get a bit expensive...

Richard in Los Angeles

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Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2003 22:48:44 EDTFrom: HUNLEY31x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Adjusting play in carriage.

<<There was a shim between the rear plate that bolts on the carriage andthe carriage. Is the correct way to adjust this play done by adding orremoving shims >>

Jeb, I'm not sure what model you have but my 12" is shimmed to adjust thecarriage BUT, This is going to be hard to explain, bear (?) with me. To

make things tighten up, you REMOVE the long thin and hard to see shimsunder the bearing plate. The factory puts 2 or 3 just for the purpose.Be careful to remove only one at a time. I though they were wear spotstill I looked real hard. If you have visible play my bet is that somebodyadded shims in the wrong place.

Hope this helps some.Hank

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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 00:39:42 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Adjusting play in carriage.

You remove shims to get the play down to nearly zero. If the gib platehas a big groove worn in it, you can turn it over. The shims arelaminated with .004" laminations. I usually fine tune with aluminumfoil, at about .0015" each.

A common problem is the shim gets caught by one of the screws andbecomes accordion-pleated, causing massive clearance.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 15:08:45 EDTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Adjusting play in carriage.

Clean bed rails and mike them at several points from headstock totailstock to see how much wear exists. If major variation exists itwill complicate things. Shims are made to removed to compensate forthe wear which reduces thickness of bed rails that saddle clamps to.Trouble is it seldom is a uniform wear. Most work is done in area nearheadstock and thus rails tend to worn more there than away from theheadstock.

If you tighten up saddle for area near the headstock it may be tootight to move at any other point on bed. You can set it up for mostused region and reset when working in another area and live with it oryou can set out to rebuild machine.

Unless you have time and money to spare think things thru carefully.I have gone the full rebuild route with 6 inch 101.214 and it is notcost effective. I did wind up with a machine with a nice smooth feeland I learned more about lathe than any book could teach.

If you have a piece of junk you may be better set it aside as a partsmachine and look for one in better shape. Your machine may only needa minor tune up and adjustment and give excellent service. Hope thisis the case.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:39:09 -0000From: "rpm2290028" <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>Subject: Eliminating lathe vibration

I have recently had my headstock apart on my 101.07403 12x36 C/A lathe,after problems with lubrication for the back gear. That went very well,but upon re-assembly, I noticed a lot more heavy vibration, that wouldeven affect the tailstock, so i knew something had changed. I testedthe headstock, which was fine, and what i had not done was to tightenup the lock bolt that runs through the two straps that hold up the motorplatform - big vibration, with the counter shaft shaking away happily.

Not realising what I had omitted, I experimented with various supportsfor the motor, eventually finishing at a simple wood block thattransferred the weight of the motor directly to the bench, just enoughto take the weight and still leave the linked belt tight enough to drivethe lathe.

All the heavy vibration has now gone, and all it took was a small 5"long wooden block. Being a sophisticated bugger, (English, we can'thelp ourselves!)I then made the block a two step block so that it wouldalso support the different motor height on the second drive pulley aswell.

Jon explained some time ago about how the motor hanging off the back ofthe headstock tends to twist the bed slightly, so this too is eliminatedwith a simple block.Perhaps i'm the simple block for not thinking ofit earlier :-)

Richard in los angeles

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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 03:28:43 -0000From: "KDSpriggs" <kdspriggsx~xxckt.net>Subject: Re: atlas 10" leadscrew reversing gearbox questions

--- In atlas_craftsmanx~xxyahoogroups.com, "Jeff Lind" wrote:> I have a TH42 10" lathe that needs some TLC. When leadscrew is inreverse, the top gear (9-47) rides up on the stud (9-72) and gearsbind and the drive slips. All three gears show some wear, from this.I can't tighten this stud up hard - it would bring the gear up to faraway from the other two gears. <

I had a similar problem with my Craftsman 12x24. It was not as bad asyours and my gears didn't appear to be worn very much, however thegears did not mesh close enough together. I fixed it by making a newstud and off setting the threaded portition of the stud from the mainbody. As I recall I put about .075 ofsett in it. As you rotate thestud the gear moves in and out, that is the depth of the meshingchanges. When you have the correct clearance, tighten the nut.

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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 13:44:58 -0000

From: "jf53b" <jfb3x~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Carriage binding up while power feeding

Help Please. I have a Craftsman 101.07301 Lathe. The carriage gets ina bind and breaks a tooth of the Carriage Traverse Shaft & Pinion(part #M6-68). This has happened twice in 4 months. I checked gibadjustment and made sure of plenty of lube on the ways. The pinionthat I put in this spring showed alot of tooth wear and was missing 3teeth. The first one that broke was the original and showed normalwear and was only missing 1 tooth. Is there anything else I shouldcheck so it doesn't happen again. BTW, I bought the lathe in Feb thisyear. Thanks in advance.

Jim

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Date: Sun, 31 Aug 2003 18:46:09 -0500 (CDT)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Re: Carriage binding up while power feeding

Jim, if you are using the power feed on the carriage, then the problemhas to be in the rack and pinion. The handwheel on the carriage turns asit is just "going along for the ride", so to speak.

I'm sure you have checked the rack for foreign material in the teeth. So...This means that you must have something in the gear box of the hand feedthat is binding. I would remove it and check for loose metal bits thatcould jam the gears. Or even severe wear on the bearings allowing thegears to miss-mesh.

Leo (pearland, tx)

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Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2003 14:37:04 EDTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Carriage binding up while power feeding

I never broke a tooth, but when my carrage got into a bind and I took thecarrage apart I found a piece of swarf imbedded between the gear teeth ofthe second gear (two teeth of the pinion). Apparently the chip would endup in different places at different times. I picked that out andeverything was free again.

At least on my carrage there were some shims between the saddle and theapron apparently to adjust the engagement of the gears with the rack. Iwas careful (at least this time) to keep track of the shims and put themback in the same places. Maybe that is part of your problem and ratherthan use a gear with a missing tooth, I would either get a new gear ortry to repair the old one with pins and some metal containing epoxy.

I would recomend taking the apron apart and make sure all gears areclean of any chips. And while you are looking check out the bracket

(die casting again) that holds the gears in place. I have heard of thiscasting breaking. I read where some have repaired it using brass stripsand or metal powder containing epoxy. I don't think you can braze orweld the die casting if it is broken, so epoxy or JB weld is the repair.(Maybe JB weld with a strip of glass cloth inbedded in the epoxy, wouldbe my first try.)

John in the high desert of California

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Date: Tue, 30 Sep 2003 12:19:28 -0700From: "GuyW" <guyiiix~xxcox.net>Subject: Re: Digest Number 1642 / Chatter (long)

>That little six inch is a LIGHT lathe. One way to avoid chatter is to...

Here's a few ideas I've filed re chatter (some or all of which I may haveshared here before)...

-Guy-

(From Dave Gingery email) "The most common error in lathe tool setup isallowing the point of the cutter to lead its mounting axis. For lightduty machines it is necessary for the cutting point to trail itsmounting axis, and that is the recommended practice on all machineryset up. When the cutting point leads the mounting axis the strains tendto pull the cutting point into the stock, causing chatter or worse. Theeffect is the same as excessive rake. For example machining brass callsfor negative rake and some steel alloys are almost as difficult tomachine as brass."

SOME OTHER IDEAS (NEW TO GUY!) ON SOURCES OF LATHE CHATTERThe following concepts (which I ripped off the Chaski board) don'taffect the Gingery patterns and castings, but your ultimate assembly ofand happiness with the lathe. Basic ideas on preventing chatter areapparently to create rotating "smoothness" in the basic lathe, and neverto allow vibration or roughness to develop (duh, Guy!).

I see this affecting our pulleys (straight & concentric enuff?), belts(some real junk out there) (V, round, flat or ??) and how cheap/loose themotor is. The idea of an intervening power shaft, clutch, and flywheel toisolate power surges seems very good, however, I lean toward a smallertype of lineshaft as compared to a huge old overhead system - perhapsa scaled-up watchmakers-lathe-type of lineshaft. -Guy-

"hi, greg,the dalton is a really nice little machine, and will do good work onceyou have it dialed in. there's a "secret"...for getting good work fromlight machines....not really very secret, tho, cos thewar production board put out a pamphlet about this technique back, duringthe war when every machine in the country was expected to work three

shifts, 24 hrs a day. this "secret" is in the mounting...make up forms,and pour a heavy cement base for the lathe, somewhat like an elongatedtruncated pyramid, with a clearance area for the operator's feet. arrangea three point mounting for the lathe, and bolt the lathe down firmlywith cement anchor bolts......the sheer mass/weight of the cement baseadds rigidity and damps out vibration...after stripping the forms away,when the concrete has fully cured...pry the concrete base up from thefloor, just enough to fit three dense rubber pads under it...three pointmounting again. the magnitude of difference this makes with a light lathein the south bend/logan class has to be seen to be appreciated. Mountthe motor and countershaft either above or behind the lathe, on walluprights or ceiling joists...making a small lathe "self-contained" maylook pretty, but is a bad idea, 'cause any little bit of vibration orresonances in the motor or c'shaft will be transmitted to the lathe bed...and the idea of the heavy base is to isolate the lathe from externalinfluences, as well as to enhance rigidity.

if you can find a light c'shaft clutch assembly, bush it nicely, make ahardwood sleeve to increase the diameter of the pulley face of theclutch, and use a small pulley on motor for single reduction...bring thelever for the clutch down to a convenient point over the lathe. thedifference in convenience in having the motor run constant speed whilstyou start/stop the spindle with a clutch, as compared to having tostart/stop the rotating mass of the motor, may well be only a minorconvenience, but its well worth doing.

belting is straightforward.....since you're out in duvall, you'll havea seattle phone book...look in the yellow pages under "belting" or "powertransmission".....best is to learn to "skive", that is, form taperedends, and glue up leather belts....all belts stretch, and will need to beshortened from time to time.....or...have the supplier cut you a roll ofa suitable width of light "oil-proof" cotton/rubber belting, get a"clipper vise lacer" (i've seen those come up cheaply on ebay) and runmetal laced belts....well, there's a start....good luck....... : )cheers, carla"

(Poster currently unknown) "Carla's post was right on the money, as usual.I'll share a little of my experiences with you, as well.Years ago I knew a fellow in his 80's who had both an impressivecollection of old engines and a reputation as a first class machinist. Heand I became pretty close friends and he became a sort of mentor to me.When I began putting together my own shop, he helped me set up all themachinery and gave me the line shafting.

Now, today a lot of guys will scoff at a bunch of pulleys and shaftinglurking over your head but believe me, I wouldn't have it any other way.My first lathe was a sebastian and it had an adapter on it to supportthe cone pulley and the motor. It worked but I couldn't get a nicefinish. Bill told me to get the shaft hung from the ceiling and bolt themotor to the floor and try it. The difference was amazing. Most of themotors we have available to us are not balanced nearly as well as we

think and, if it is fixed rigid to the lathe, the vibration carriesthrough to the machine and makes itself known to you as a fine chatter.I have run machinery with the motor bolted to the wall, and to therafters, and both of those locations were noisy, the hum of the motoris a 60 cycle vibration and the building simply begins to resonate atthat frequency. Most annoying. The concrete floor does a wonderful jobof dampening the vibrations.

Hang your countershaft and your lineshaft, you will belt your motor tothe lineshaft and run a straight belt and a twisted belt to thecountershaft clutch pulleys. Drive the lineshaft at 250 rpm (pretty mucha standard for small lineshafts). If you have an induction repulsionmotor, they are the best, they have high starting torque and startsmoother than capacitor motors. Very few machine tools had capacitorstart motors on them, they start with a jerk and tend to vibrate more.

If you can get single ply leather belting, use it over canvas/rubber.The oil that invariably gets on the belts will turn the canvas/rubberbelting into a gooey mess in 10 years. A single ply belt, about 3/32thick and 1/4 narrower than your pulleys will transmit all the poweryou need. If the belt is too thick, it takes more tension to make itdrive and is hard on the bearings all the way around. It is thefriction of the belt against the pulley that drives, so a supple beltcan conform to the pulley and do the work without pulling it real tight.I lace all my belts with rawhide shoelaces. This is easy to learn ifyou buy the Robert Smith books "Advanced Machine Work" and "Elementsof Machine Work" from Lindsay. Metal laces slip and wear the pulleys.Rawhide laced belts can be lumpy if not done right and this too can setup a vibration. Cemented belts are wonderful but they are a pain toshorten when they stretch. It is advisable to slack the belts, ifpossible, when the machine is going to be idle for a period of time tolimit the amount they stretch.

I also have a 10" Logan and a 9" southbend and I have run both of themfrom a lineshaft for several years with good results. I wish I couldrun my B'port from it as well. The darn v-belt drive is a source ofirritation, a new belt will run smooth for a few months and then getlumpy and start to vibrate. Maybe this is why Southbend stayed withflat belts on their lathes until relatively recently.

Good luck with your machine, and if it seems like a lot of work to setup the drive arrangement, it is but you get out of it what you put in."

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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 21:41:57 -0500From: "Jeb" <watts428x~xxswbell.net>Subject: Chatter much better - but

Thanks for all the suggestions! I implemented some of them and mychatter decreased greatly. I am still having a problem with the finish.It looks like a lot of fine grooves. I placed some pictures underphotos in the finishes folder. You need to view them full size to seewhat I am talking about. You will see some light chatter in one pictureand the grooving on the other. Anyone have any suggestions? I am stillusing the lantern post on my 618. I tried three differently groundtools but, ended up with the same type finish. I ground some with a

pointed end, a rounded end and one with a square type end. I hoping toget a QC tool post for Christmas and maybe this will cure the problem.

Jeb.

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Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 00:50:04 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Chatter much better - but

I don't know if the chatter marks can be made any better. That is actuallypretty good for lathe cutting of arbitrary steel. If you want a real finefinish, you need a toolpost grinder - and maybe a bigger lathe to use it on.

The grooved one is pretty bad. Is this the same material as the "chatter"one? If so, the cutting tool must have been terrible. My best resultswith HSS tools was with a roughly 90 degree point set up such that oneface was left, and one facing the work. The one facing the work wouldbe tilted so that the point would touch first, and the rest of the facewould be swung away from the turned surface by no more than 10 degrees.This seemed to make the best turned surfaces. On a 6x18, you can'thave much radius on the tool tip or you'll get chatter. For the finishingpass, I would often advance .001" or less, and use high spindle speed andthe slowest possible power feed. Sometimes I would change the gear trainsettings to get even slower feeds than were normally available.

If these are not the same material, then the problem is obvious! Somematerials look like mild steel, but simply cannot be turned to a finefinish. Annealing might help some hardened materials, but not allof them.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 8 Oct 2003 02:00:10 -0400From: "mertbaker" <MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: Chatter much better - but

The chatter comes from improperly ground tooling/tool height, & slop inthe machine. The "threads" are normal, as you are cutting a spiral ofmetal off the work. taking the finest feed, you get the finest "thread"effect. Rounding the toolbit nose will nearly make it go away, and a60-70 thou "flat nose" will make it disappear. Use the flat nose asa final cut, taking only 1 or two thou. & a fine feed.

Mert

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Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 00:07:25 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 10" spindle chatter

gauge-onex~xxwebtv.net wrote:>I have an Atlas 10", model QC54. I have noticed recently that the>spindle has started making a chattering sound - especally at startup or>shutdown, and at high speed.>I have traced the noise to the spindle drive pulley - the engagement pin>from the large gear is chattering around in the pulley. If I hold the>pulley and move the chuck fwd. & back, there is play between the pulley>and gear, and you can see the pin moving slightly. Moving the pin to a>different hole in the pulley made no difference.>The oil hole plug screw in the pulley does not touch the spindle on my>lathe. Is it supposed to? If it did it would help solve this problem,>by locking the pulley to the spindle and lessening the strain on the>pin. What have some of you done to solve this problem?

When you use the lathe in back gear mode, you are supposed to put oil inthat hole first. Otherwise, you get what you now see, the bushings insidethe pulley have gotten worn. Don't jam it with the oil hole screw, thatwill mar the spindle, and you may not be able to get the bearings out ofit later. If there is much play there, you may have to replace thebushings. If not, maybe just putting some oil in the oil hole will stopthe chattering.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:42:56 -0000From: "donh213502000" <donh213502000x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: No More Grease!

I have a TH36 Atlas lathe which has the Vertical countershaft assy.The vertical belt tensioning arrangement puts the countershaft uphigh and directly in line with the operator (me). The countershaftbearings are constantly throwing grease and ruining my shirts andstaining my glasses. This has been such a problem that I decided tofix it. Here is the fix if anyone else wants to correct this problem.

Turn a new bearing holder with the following dimensions. Length 1.5inches, (same as original countershaft bearing housing). ID shouldbe drilled or bored to 1 1/8 inches. This ID clears the inner raceof the new sealed ball bearings (bearings to be described shortly).The OD of the bearing housing should be 1.9 inches. The originalhousing is cast and is approx 1.8 inches at the fattest point. Theslightly larger housing gives a little more metal to hold the newball bearings as they are pressed in.

After the basic houseing is turned, both ends should be bored toaccomodate the new ball bearings. The bore depth shoud be .436 andthe OD of the Bore should be 1.623. This bore will allow the bearingsto be pressed in flush and this OD will give a .002 press fit.

I bought 4 sealed ball bearings from allied bearings (price approx.$11.50 each). Part # R12 2Rs. Press these into each end of the newbearing housings. All that is left to do is to mill (7/16 dia.) thedimples for the adjustment screws in the middle of each housing. Imilled the holes .1 inches deep exactly 180 degrees from each other.The ends of the housing can be radiused for sex appeal if desired.

These units will directly replace the old unsealed cage bearings.Use the original shaft collars to hold them in the correctpossition. The outer lip of the shaft collars may need to be turnedback slighly so they don't touch the outer race of the new bearings.They may not last 50 years like the original. The balls do haveless contact area. But, what the heck, with the money you save onnew shirts, they can be replaced every 5 years or so. Your wife willprobably appreciate less grease also.

Great info on this users group. Thanks to all who have contributed.Hope my fix will help someone out.

Don Harris

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Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 09:03:24 -0000From: "Ernest Lear" <Ernestx~xxelear2.fsnet.co.uk>Subject: Re: No More Grease!

Don. I have the same problem with my Vertical countershaft assy and I'malso about to renewing mine with more up to date bearings. I'm at themoment looking at what bearings and there cost on the market. And so farI've come up with using needle bearings in seal press steel housingsplus harden steel inner rings on the shaft.These bearings and matchinginner rings are supplied by Torrington's and their designation Numbersfor these are HJ-122012(bearing) plus IR-081212(Ring). The price pereach set is £22 inc. UK 17.5% V.A.Tax and carriage etc. A little morethan yours. Now at the moment I'm at the design stage before I startmaking it up and also got to plan it, to use my original countershaftwhile I'm making all the new parts I will require. What you have donewill help me to decide my final solution for my replacement assy.

Ernest

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Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 19:36:30 -0600From: "Jeb" <watts428x~xxswbell.net>Subject: RE: Removed the back gear,1/8" ball bearing fell out,

Bill Smith [mailto:andyjack32x~xxyahoo.com] wrote: >> Removed the back gear,1/8" ball bearing fell out, and I'll be danged if I can see where it camefrom. Anyone know? My lathe is a Craftsman 101.7301. <<

Bill, there is a ball bearing between the right side of the headstock onthe outside and the backgear shaft (the part of the shaft that has theshort handle on it). There is also a spring in there.

Jeb

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Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 17:25:45 -0500 (EST)From: k-qx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Removed the back gear,1/8" ball bearing fell out,

Bill: There are two (2) ball bearings in the 6" head stock (checked theprint to make sure I was right and get parts number).The 1/8" ball bearing (part # m6-214) is used with the plunger andspring for the back gear lock pin. There is also a 3/16" ball,(part # 9-10) used with the index pin and spring.

Hope this helps,Ken

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:00:11 -0000From: "jdlt166" <rhbroehlx~xxisp.com>Subject: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

Hi, Found this group while looking for answers to a problem Ihave with my old lathe given to me by my grandfather.

My problem is that the faceplate has a wobble to it. I removed thespindle, cleaned the bearing and shaft, put it back together,tightened the front bearing, but still have a wobble. Does not looklike the shaft is bent, but I could be wrong. Could the rear bearingcause this problem? Looking for some help. Thanks

Rob Broehl

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 15:21:17 +0000From: "jo barden" <jobarden422x~xxmsn.com>Subject: Re: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

If the face plate is wobbling could it be that the plate is out of true?if possible fit another face plte/chuck and check , I would have thoughtthat the rear bearing if it is set right should have minimal effectunless it is badly worn, I would suggest using a test bar if possible,assuming the shaft has a morse taper, this should reveal all.

Jo

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Date: Wed, 05 Nov 2003 10:50:18 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

If the wobble is very slight, less than .010" at the edge, just face thefaceplate. That is common practice when swapping and spindle-mounted

item to a different lathe. If the wobble is greater than .010" or so atthe edge, then the spindle IS bent. This is very common on AA productslathes, sold as model 109.xxxxx by Craftsman. Do you have anythingelse that mounts to the spindle, like a chuck? Does it also wobble?

Jon

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 09:35:11 -0800From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

What happens when the chuck is put in place? Check with somedrill rod and it should be within a few thou. with a 3 jaw chuck forcentering at the best point. Faceplates are often off of even by afair bit as they aren't generally machined to the spindle itself.

If you feel the need, find the high side of the faceplate and flip itover on the chuck and adjust the faceplate and the mounting pieceto the chuck so that the error is the same and machine themounting stop surface with a little skim to get it square. If you doa good job, you should be able to get it to mount to a thousandthor so for wobble.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 21:20:44 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

Regrettably, the spindles of the AA lathes often ARE bent. They are verythin and bend easily. And the chucks which were supplied with the lathesstuck out a long way, making the chance of bending better by the leverage.That said, the faceplate COULD be out of true. The back bearing howeverwould have to be noticeably loose to be a problem.

Spindles are available from Earl Bower.http://www.bowermachineandtool.com

Jerrold

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Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2003 22:53:38 -0500From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: Help with AA/Craftsman Lathe

And I stock Earl's spindles for sale at the same price, same day shipment.I did not find that my spindle was bent until I purchased a very accurate

3-jaw chuck. I had put an indicator on the spindle and thought it was OK.Anxious to test this "super accurate" chuck, I set up and found a .010"instead of 0.0004". Spindle. If all goes well, I will have addeda link to Earl Bower's website to my home page by this time tomorrow.

Bill Hardinwww.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support

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Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 20:58:55 -0500From: Guy Cadrin <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Couple of problems with a Craftsman lathe, with some solutions

I joined the discussion group a couple weeks ago. However; I was readingthe discussions on the web site. I want to share my experience andproblems with the atlas/Craftsman lathe.

I bought my lathe in 1990. (craftman 101.28990 12 in cabinet mounted).The lathe was in mint condition. The previous user almost never used it.Her widow told me that he bought the machine and became ill shortlyafter. After his death, the lathe accumulated dust for many years untilshe decided to get rid of it. It came with most of the accessories(chucks, backplate, steady rest and follower rest)in the original boxes,including a taper attachment for a 10 in Atlas, modified to fit a1/2 in thick bed. I also got the milling attachment.

The lathe served me well until 1997 when it was damaged by a water pipethat burst above it while I was away. I dismantled the whole machine andgot the bed surface ground in order to remove rust damage.

The machine came back together in a almost new condition, but my problemsstarted: get everything re-aligned. I had to re-align the headstock, abig challenge, when you have no reference manual for machine toolreconditioning. I had a very minor play between the flat bed ways. I puta shim between the headstock casting and the bed in order to limit themotion at the chuck end of the headstock. At the end of the bed, Idrilled and tapped a 1/4 in 20 hole on each side. Those 2 screws allowedme to fine tune the alignment of the headstock. I finished off with lessthan .0001 in per in as error in parallellism, quite satisfactory for ahobby lathe.

After dismantling the lathe, I always experienced tailstock alignmentproblems; I could not rely on the alignment. I spent many hours trying toalign it until I discovered last winter that the tailstock spindle wasmoving as much as 0.002 in when tightening it down. At that point I wasnot able to remove the tailstock because of the tight location of thelathe. (The tailstock couldn't clear the end of the bed as the bed wastoo close to the wall.)

I moved to Gatineau, in July. In Sept, I dismantled the tailstock for afull inspection. With marking blue, I discovered that the contact between

the upper and lower headstock casting was almost null. I scraped the topface of the lower casting to get it flat (using a small cast iron surfaceplate as reference). As second step, I used the lower casting as referencesurface in order to get a good surface match between the two castings. Asa consequence, I had to put a 0.001 shim in order to re-align in thevertical plane the tailstock and headstock. My problem has completelydisappeared. I will be able to see the difference when I install thelathe permanently. (I still have to re-arrange my workshop.) When I see inthe old publicity "tailstock is handfitted to bedways", I say "my eye".

Last June, I removed the saddle for inspection. (I usually remove it oncea year for clean up) I discovered that the casting had warped. (about0.01 in) I needed to get the saddle flat ways surface ground as it wouldbe too much of a scraping job to do. It turned out really good. I tookthe same opportunity to drill the tool room taper attachment holes at therear of the saddle. I was then able to find the tool room taper attachmenton ebay last month.

I equipped my machine with 3C collets. why? They are much easier tofind. South bend collet closers fit perfectly on the spindle. The drawbar: don't invest on that item if you are able to cut inside threads. itis easy to manufacture. The collet closer is also easy to manufacture aslong as you can find tool steel and can harden metal.

I have a problem of bed torsion when I apply pressure on the headstock. Isuspect a lack of stiffness of the transverse metal holding bar where thebed is clamped to the base. (Dial indicator measurements proved that theproblem is around the mounting bolts.)

I hope some will take advantage of my problems. If any haverecommendations on modifications to do to the cabinet in order toincrease the rigidity, please let me know. I will start to work on thisin January.

Guy Cadrin Gatineau, QC Canada

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 22:36:00 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Couple of problems with a Craftsman lathe, with some solutions

> I equipped my machine with 3C collets. why?

Hah, another convert......I agree with all of it. I would add that youdon't HAVE to harden the closer, unless you do a lot of collet work. Mine

is not hardened, but still works fine.

When you make a closer, put a mark on it so you can put it in again in sameposition as when machined. It will be extremely accurate that way.

Jerrold

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Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 00:18:19 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Couple of problems with a Craftsman lathe, with some solutions

Guy Cadrin wrote:>I needed to get the saddle flat ways surface ground as it would be too much>of a scraping job to do. It turned out really good.

This stuff is fairly soft cast Iron. With proper scraping tools, it shouldbe possible to scrape it in in one weekend, unless it was MASSIVELY warped.If it warped that much, you;d need to rescrape the crossslide ways too.

>I have a problem of bed torsion when I apply pressure on the headstock. I>suspect a lack of stiffness of the transverse metal holding bar where the>bed is clamped to the base. (dial indicator measurements proved that the>problem is around the mounting bolts.

Yes, this is a weak point on the Atlas design. On the machines with thecountershaft behind the bed, there is a bolt on later machines thattransfers the belt load between the countershaft bracket and the headstock.When you adjust the bolt just right, it almost perfectly balances the belttension, and the bed does not deflect much at all. I wonder if there is away to apply similar techniques to the underdrive model. It would take avertical bolt that runs between the countershaft and the bottom of theheadstock. You don't want the reaction to the belt tension to returnthrough the bed. You want a direct link between the two ends of the beltto carry as much of that load as possible.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:28:43 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Couple of problems with a Craftsman lathe,with some solutions

One of the tricks I learned from Machine Tool Reconditioning is to put around parallel (I use hardened and ground shafting of known straightness)in the concave part of the dovetail to check the alignment between thespindle and the cross slide, to make sure the cross slide will travelprecisely at right angles to the spindle. I used this to set thealignment when I cast Moglice on the bottom of the carriage of mySheldon. It worked like a CHARM!

Jon

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Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2003 18:14:02 -0800 (PST)From: Michael Bush <europeanrestorationx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Rebuilding a 12" Craftsman.

I was looking for a lathe a while back and passed on what looked likea fairly decent 12" quick change Craftsman. The lead screw was worn toa V thread near the headstock and the bed was worn to the point ofhaving a groove worn on the outside. What does it cost to have the bedsurface ground and can your average machine shop do it? What is the costof replacing a lead screw, half nuts, and related items cost? How muchwork is that? Also, how expensive is it to put new headstock bearingsin? TIA.

Michael

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Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2003 03:10:16 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: Rebuilding a 12" Craftsman.

Re-grinding a atlas lathe bed is relatively easy, as long as you finda machine shop that has a large surface grinder. Plan for at least 5hours' work. In 1997, it cost me $ 600 Can to get it done. I heardsomebody that got a Logan bed reground in Montreal for $300 Can.

According to my 1997 Clausing price list, a lead screw was between$212.00 to $250 depending on the model. Those show up once in a whileon ebay. (less than $100.00) Split Nuts were about $25.00 US new in1997. Replacing both, lead screw and split nuts for the first timewould take about 3 hour work. (I could do it now in less than 1 houras I know exactly how everything is setup on the apron). Removal ofthe lead screw on a Quick change lathe is a matter of removing 2allen cap screws on the lead screw bearing.

Depending on the type of job you want to do, it is not necessarlyimportant to change the lead screw unless you want to cut precisionthread. My lead screw has got a lot of wear caused by sand dustcoming out of a casting I machined. I bought a new lead screw butuses it only when I really require accurate thread cutting capabilities.In that case, ensure you have a set of split nut used exclusively forthat lead screw.

Bearings are Timken bearings and can be found in many local bearing

shops.

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Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 16:39:02 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Digest Number 1690

>jon my sheldon has a quick change tool post and i have investigated every>possible place where it can be loose and i have yet to fix the darn thing.>but i have not given up yet lol

Well, of course, my Sheldon R15-6 is a different class of machine, butthere HAS to be something wrong with it. It isn't SUPPOSED to chatterlike that! I do have some experience with fixing chatter on lathes.I had a badly beat 10" Atlas years ago, and there were about 6 places itwas loose. I got a Phase-II piston-type QC, and that helped. Then, oneday, I noticed the oil film next to the BACK of the saddle was pulsatingwhen I had trouble. I lifted up on the back of the carriage, and sureenough, the gibs that are supposed to keep the carriage from lifting offthe ways was massively screwed up. (On the Atlas, there are laminated shimsfor adjusting this clearance, and if you are careless, the screws can pinchthe shim and turn it into an accordion. The previous owner certainly dida good job of that.) High infeed forces on machines with light carriagescan cause the back of the carriage to lift. So, check the tightness ofthese gibs, however they are set up on your Sheldon. there are tricks ofhow you position the compound slide that can affect the flex in themachine. So, try it at different compound settings.

Before I started all these improvements, it was ABSOLUTELY impossibleto part off anything, even PLASTIC, on that Atlas! After I was done,I could part mild steel with impunity, and even some tough aluminumdeep-parting off work without great fear. (At least for me, aluminumseems to be more difficult to part off than mild steel. It goes finefor a while, then binds up suddenly.)

The final fix was to replace the badly worn babbit bearing headstockwith a roller bearing headstock. If the spindle is free to lift up inreaction to cutting forces, everything else doesn't matter a whole lot.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:01:39 -0500 (EST)From: x xx <lesleynwardx~xxyahoo.ca>Subject: Re: Re: Tail stock height

glenco2x~xxjuno.com wrote:>>> I just aligned the tail stock with the head stock using a center ineach one and found out that the tail stock is slightly lower, maybe10 thou. any solutions to this problem. Glen 10" atlas <<<

Shims 'tween the tailstock base and the stock itself. Depending on howyou make the shims you might or might not be able to use tail stocksetover thereafter, but the loss of that facility doesn't seem to bea serious detriment.

Sam

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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 12:10:46 ESTFrom: jmartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Tail stock height

As the bed wears, the parts supporting the carriage and the tailstockwill become lower. So will the bottom of the carriage and tailstock.The headstock and the bed area supporting it get no wear, so they don'tchange. Eventually, you may have to regrind or scrape the bed and theother parts.

Quick fix, though, is to add a shim between the lower and uppertailstock castings.

John Martin

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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 17:08:35 ESTFrom: jmartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Tail stock height

> If this is the case (likely), wouldn't shimming the tailstock make it> high if the tailstock is positioned to the right where there would be> less (or no) wear to the bed ways. Glen measured with a center in the> headstock and tailstock, so the tailstock was obviously very close to> the headstock -- the place where most bed wear would be likely. -Bruno

While wear to the bed from carriage movement is typically greatest nearthe headstock, the headstock and tailstock on the Atlas lathes withwhich I am familiar don't wear on the same part of the bed. Carriage wearis on the outer part of the ways, tailstock wear is on the inner part.If he doesn't typically use the tailstock right next to the headstock,but measured the .010" low number at that point, it's probably not thebed but the tailstock base - in which case the shimming will help. And,if it's a combination of way wear and tailstock wear, shimming it to getit a few thousandths high at one end and a few low at the other may bethe best compromise.

Grinding or scraping the bed may be the only totally accurate method,but it depends on what accuracy he needs and what he is willing to payor labor for it.

Might also help to know exactly how he measured the difference. Clockingthe tailstock ram with a dti on the lathe spindle should give the bestreading.

John Martin

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Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:19:59 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Tail stock height

azbruno wrote:>Yes, the carriage does wear the outer side of the ways, so I stand>corrected. Now I am wondering how easily a bit of swarf could get>under the tailstock to affect it's alignment reading.

Very easily! The Atlas machines generally don't have way wiperson the tailstock. Pull the tailstock and examine the bottom forgouges and burrs. You can carefully remove any burrs with achisel or India stone. If using the chisel, an extremely fine touchis needed to avoid making new gouges and burrs that are even worse.Applying a chisel upside down allows finer control of how the edge cuts.Of course, if you have a scraping tool, that is far preferable.

>Also, if the bottom of the tailstock is uneven, could the alignment>results then change depending on how far out the ram is? Just wondering.

Absolutely! If the tailstock is canted at all, the extension of the ramwill be on an incline. You should use the carriage to ride a dialindicator across the top of the extended ram to detect tilt. Of course,if the tailstock casting is worn, the ram can be raised and lowered atthe front end. Then, a new keying screw is fashioned to allow the ram tobe held up against the top of the bore. Many old Atlas machines canbenefit from this trick.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 14:40:48 -0600 (CST)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Newbie with questions

[NOTE TO FILE: All these questions have been answered over and overand... and can easily be found in the archives or in the files on thissite. Leo and JTS kindly provided an excellent set of answers.See the archives or files here for more options.]

"I've just bought a craftsman 6" lathe 101.07301 ."

I have the same lathe, bought new in 1955.

"...and the motor is now a half HP 1750 RPM dayton instead of theoriginal."

This lathe did not come with a motor (at least in 1955) Searsrecommended a 1/3 h.p, 1750 rpm., so you are OK in that department.

"... anything specific I need to check out or do to make sure things areproperly aligned and lubricated before turning it on?"

Make sure that the spindle bearings have lube in them. (10w,non-detergent) Oil the spindle thrust bearing (bearing on left side ofspindle step pulley. Oil the gear train, and start off with the shift inneutral, so you won't have to worry about carriage, bed travel rightnow. Remove the oil screw in the spindle step pulley and the oil screwin the back gear cluster and oil them.

"any suggestions on what kind of abrasive and/or solvent to use in orderto remove surface rust and oily gunk without damaging critical surfaces?"

My suggestions would be to use a rust remover solvent and a pad, such as"Scotchbrite". Clean carefully, just remove the rust... don't scratchthe metal.

"...- I was planning to bolt this lathe to a home built table withfolding legs and wheels so I can move it out of the way when not in use.But then I found some tech tips on the Atlas site that really emphasizethe importance of leveling the bed."

The Bed Does Not Have To Be Level!!! (i know this will seen as heresy)

The bed "levelling" routine is kind of misleading. The recommendation to"level" the lathe is just an easy way to make the bed rails co-planarand not twisted along their lengths. (the bed could be vertical, upsidedown, at a 45 degree angle, and it would not matter)

Permanent and static mounting would be best, but you could mount it on arolling table. Get the table reasonably level and then... Level thelathe bed ways so that your level (a precision level) indicates the samereading when tested on each way and the same reading when tested acrossthe ways near the headstock and on the tail-end of the ways. (thesereadings, taken when the lathe is bolted to the table) Then, If yourtable top is very stiff (rigid), the lathe ways will be close toco-planar where ever you use it. The lathe has to "level" with itself,not the table, world, etc.

Hope this is enought to get you started,Leo (pearland, tx)

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Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 20:51:55 GMTFrom: jts4545x~xxnetzero.netSubject: Re: Newbie with questions

Tips:

Avoid using abrasives other than steel wool on the bed. Too coarse andyou will change critical dimensions of lathe bed contact surfaces. Use avery fine grade of steel wool. Try Hoppe's #9 gun bore solvent, usuallyavailable at any gun store. Let it soak on rusted parts for a few hours.Then rub off with clean cloth. Use rubber gloves and lots of ventilation.Smell is quite pervasive. You can also try Kroil to penetrate rust. Kroil

is very good for rusted rotating parts also.

Check that all gears rotate smoothly and apply Kroil if seized up orbinding from rust. They must all turn freely. When turning freely, useSAE 20 oil on rotating spindles and keys, not on gear teeth! Motor oilwill suffice. Lubricate lathe bed surfaces with special way lubricant,Mobil "Vactra" brand is the most commonly available brand. Viscositydoes not matter on a small lathe, but thicker is better. Use "cling type"outer gear or spur gear lubricant in a spray can on all gear teeth. Manyprivate brands available from industrial supply houses and catalogs.Usually a form of molybdenum disulfide grease. If turning workpiecesbetween centers, use center lubricant, "CIMCOOL CentersaverWaterproof Grease" is the industry standard. Available from J&L Toolcatalog and local industrial suppliers. Ordinary grease simply will notdo for this application. It will quickly fail under rotating pressures andlet your centers get burned.

The motor can be adapted with a bushing to match belt pulley in somecases. If not, get a 1/3 HP motor.

Try to use a rigid base. An amazing amount of vibration is produced bya lathe when running. Folding legs will have to be be very heavilybraced to to take such vibrations.

These things should get you off to a good start.

Broken handwheel should be replaced with one from Clausing ServiceCenter. You can get handwheels from Reid Tool Supply catalog also.

Think twice about using this for wood parts. Sawdust is difficult toremove from moving parts.

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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 15:21:20 -0500From: "mertbaker" <MertBakerx~xxprodigy.net>Subject: Re: how reduce backlash in lead screw?

> Thanks to help from folks on this board I now have my new> Atlas/Craftsman 6 x 18 cleaned up, spinning and cutting. I notice> there's a fair amount of play on the cross thread and compound, but I> don't have a dial indicator yet to measure exactly how much. Are> there adjustments that can be made to reduce the backlash or is this> just a question of age and wear that I have to live with?

This is one of the things that old 618s have. Solution is a new nut fromClausing at 30 bux or so, or a tube of loctite thread restorer from theauto parts store, which is what I used.

The leadscrew & halfnuts on this lathe were OK. It was the cross slidenut that was nearly gone. The nut is brass, and the screw, steel, butthere was quite a bit of wear on the screw, also. Works fine now, nobinding at either end.

Mert

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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 22:18:26 -0000From: "bkfan2001" <bkfan2001x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: how reduce backlash in lead screw?

Hi Mert, I had not heard of someone using this repair before and itreally irks me that I didn't think of it before. I have been in theauto parts business for several years and have also done my fair shareof wrench turning and have used the Loctite thread repair system moretimes than I care to think about ( I was always kinda big & strong andjust had to get those pesky bolts just as tight as I could, esp inaluminum) and it really works. Cast iron, aluminum, etc,etc, just abouteverything. Had no problems with having to redo repair either, seemedto stay permanent. Thanks for the tip.

BK

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Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 16:33:18 -0600From: xlch58x~xxswbell.netSubject: Re: how reduce backlash in lead screw?

One thing to keep in mind is that the screw is also worn, and typicallynear the headstock. This means that if you set it up for a good fit atthe headtstock, the threads will bind at the tailstock. You may wantto make/buy a new screw first. Another ancient dodge was to split thenut lengthwise and spread it with braze, solder or adjusting screws.

Charles

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Date: Sat, 03 Jan 2004 13:54:13 -0000From: "johnlegowik" <legowikx~xxearthlink.net>Subject: Replacement Drill Press Column

I have an older Craftsman Drill press. Does anyone know of a way toget a replacement column with the rack and pinion arangement or away to retrofit the column with a rack and pinion table...Thanks again.

John Legowik

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 08:15:57 -0600 (CST)From: dswrx~xxwebtv.netSubject: Re: Replacement Drill Press Column

I have one of those older Craftsman drill press. The table (with apalmgren rotary table mounted) was a major problem when it came tomoving the table up or down the column.I solved this problem, usingthe top mast (turnbuckle) used on three point hitches of tractors.You can get these from farm or tractors stores. Adjusting range isabout 5".

Only drawback is you have to reach below the table to adjust the heightof the table, but it beats the "h" out of man-handling the table.

Leo (pearland, tx)

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 10:44:59 -0600From: "TONY CLARK" <lotus.tonyx~xxairmail.net>Subject: Re: Drill Press Table adjusting

Another solution to helping offset the weight of drill press orhydraulic press tables is with one (or more) of those deck lid strutsthat car makers love to use. They can be found with really longstrokes and they are better than a spring since their spring forceaction is a lot less progressive than a compression spring... a coupleof bucks at the salvage yard.

Tony in Texas

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Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 23:24:59 -0800From: "Spurrs" <spurrsx~xxlegendjsm.net>Subject: Bending Zamac

This may cause a little controversy. We all know that Zamac or Mazac diecastings are brittle. Usually to our cost.

Should you have a casting that is bent, not broken, it is possible to bendit back without breaking it. You need time and/or heat. One characteristicof Zamac is its poor creep resistance. Place a load on it so that itdistorts and it quickly creeps to the distorted shape. Try to bend it backtoo quickly, it breaks.

If you need to straighthen a casting, try clamping it to the position yourequire without causing it to set. Warm gently using a blowtorch, electricpaint stripper or in the oven, When cool, the casting will have moved tothe shape it was clamped to.

I did this with a bent leadscrew reversing clutch yoke without problem.

Nigel Spurr

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Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 01:18:58 ESTFrom: WaynesTrnsx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Bending Zamac

As a restorer and repairer of vintage toy trains I have straightened

many zamac castings over the years. If you are going to use a high heatsource such as a propane torch ALWAYS wear safety glasses. I have hadcastings explode from what I presume was moisture in an air pocketcreate steam.

Regards, Wayne

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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 20:20:26 +0000 (GMT)From: John Bladen <nina_johnukx~xxyahoo.co.uk>Subject: Timken Removal & Fitting

I have stripped down the Atlas 10F and had a lot of difficulty removing theHeadstock spindle. It proved to be an extremely tight fitting spindle gearand an even tighter fitting inner of the Timken Gear at the opposite end tothe chuck. Having ensured that there are no burrs on the key way I tried toget the bearing on but it was simply impossible. The spindle is polishednice and shiny and I have tried fitting with plenty of oil on the surfaceand fairly dry.

I put the bearing in the oven and when warm it slipped on the spindle quiteeasily but I did not get it fully home and moving it by tightening it usingthe threaded collar was proving to be very difficult. Because at some stagein the future I will have to replace a belt I decided to remove the spindleagain and investigate further. This took an excessive amount of force tofree it and I was getting worried about the casting but in the end itshifted. Is this common, because the book says that replacing the spindleshould be possible with little more force than the palm of your hand?

Can anyone tell me if there is a tip for the removal of the bearing. I canalways warm it up to get it back on but the amount of force to remove itseems to against the guidance in the book and excessive.

The inner bearing with the rollers is marked as 14125. Is this the correctbearing?

John Bladen Milton Keynes UK

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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 15:58:16 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Timken Removal & Fitting

Is inner bearing sticking on shaft or outer bearing sticking in headstockcasting? Are you using a press and adapter to install bearing on shaft?Are you using a disc (or disk) and threaded rod to draw bearing into (orout of) the headstock? Is there evidence of a too tight fit?

If more force is required to install than remove something is causing it.If you have large micrometer check size of old and new and diameter ofspindle at several points. You can always remove enough metal to make aslip fit, BUT, that is the least likely cause.

Prior string gave correct bearing numbers a month or so ago asBig Cone 16150 Big Cup 16284B Small Cone 14125A Small Cup 14276BI have not verified, but, no one corrected it on group so if I havecopied correct it should be right for both 10 and 12 inch Timken TaperedRoller Bearings. Others may make equivalent.

Most likely cause is dirt or crud in casting hole and a burr on shaft.If some force is required to install (and it is ) make sure it is notexcessive. Hammer not good tool to use. Bearing Cone and Cup must beinstalled squarely on shaft and in headstock...some sort of press andadapters does job best. Heat is an extreme measure just like hammer.Can do more harm than good if your luck is not running good at time.

Louis

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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 22:43:50 -0800From: "Spurrs" <spurrsx~xxlegendjsm.net>Subject: Re: Timken Removal & Fitting

I recently removed the spindle from my 10". The inner bearing race at theopposite end from the chuck slid off the spindle OK. The bull gear castingwas a little more stubborn, a little warmth (not too hot to touch) from apaint stripping gun was enough to make it reasonable. The bearing innerrace really should not be tight as you will have major problems adjustingthe spindle nut preload. If too loose, the result will be chatter. Isuggest that the suffering to make the fit right will be well worth theeffort.

If you check the diameter of the bearing race, check it in a number ofplaces. It should be perfectly round but you never know!

I am thinking of putting a slug of lead under each grubscrew to stop shaftmarking in the future. The spindle nut grubscrew has one, but why not theothers! Looks like You and I are working on similar timescale to completerepairs/restoration.

Best regardsNigel Spurr Solihull UK

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Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 23:55:39 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Timken Removal & Fitting

The biggest problem with removing both inner and outer races is that gritgets packed under the lip of the race and is then driven into the seatingsurface. This ends up scoring the bearing a little, and the seatingsurface very badly. It is much easier if you use a pointed tool to removeas much grit from under the lip of the race before trying to drive itoff/out. I used a series of tools and solvents to get as much stuff outof there as possible, and it was then much easier to drive them off.

Getting a good bearing off for reuse is a tricky business. What youshould have done, assuming you have access to a working lathe, is to makedriving collars and plugs and use a gear puller to move the bearings.I made a set of these before tearing down a headstock, and was VERY gladI did, as my bearings were REALLY tight, too.

For reinstalling, I heated the first bearing inner race, and cooled thespindle in the freezer. This made it slip on REAL easy. I froze theouter races and they went in real well, too. But the rear bearing (thelast to go in) was a bit trickier. I used the gear puller to pull it in,and it was not too bad.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 13 Jan 2004 08:54:20 +0000 (GMT)From: John Bladen <nina_johnukx~xxyahoo.co.uk>Subject: Re: Timken Removal & Fitting

Thanks all for the advice on this. I spent some time trying to measurethe inside of the bearing and suspect that it is not true. It was veryuseful to have the input and know that it has to be a tight fit but notas tight as it currently is. I will also try and fabricate somethingto press and draw the bearing in future.

John

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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:08:38 -0500From: David Beierl <dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net>Subject: Re: Bed fixing and avoiding twist

1/14/2004, Spurrs wrote:>I suppose Atlas insist on level as it is obvious to all- provided that

>you have a very sensitive level available.

Atlas says "WHAT IS A PROPERLY LEVELED LATHE? On an accurately leveledlathe the bed ways are parallel or level with each other both lengthwiseand crosswise."

Sears says (in a 1944 bulletin) "...By this is meant the bed ways must beparallel or level with themselves and not necessarily 'level with theworld.' However the easiest method of obtaining a level lathe is by usinga machinist's spirit level thus making..."

Both say that .001 total twist is unacceptable. Atlas goes into more gorydetail than Sears about how it will ruin the lathe as well as the work.

>2. Placing a long bar/tube on the bed so that it is vertical and>measuring a plumb line position at eact end of the bed.

This is the same as using a level -- but to meet the sensitivity spec.(about 80 arc-seconds/division from the Sears bulletin; about 20 secondsfrom the Atlas bulletin, assuming an 8-inch level and 36" between lathemounts) you'll need a vertical member either 22 feet or 175 feet long. Asix-foot vertical will give you .1 inch deflection for about 300arc-seconds, or .018/foot -- far less than you need. Twenty feet might bemarginally possible, but given the narrow and flexible base probably notwithout going to large effort or expense or both for lightening. 175 feetis right out. <g>

Note: Making the assumptions that a) if .001 is completely unacceptable,then .0005 is tolerable and .00025 preferred; b) the measurement is takenover a six-inch distance from front way to back way; c) ten tenths (onethou) per division will be readable enough to let you achieve 2.5 tenths;then the minimum sensitivity would be two thou per foot or 35seconds. That's halfway between the Atlas and Sears recommendations;however the level pictured on both is a precision machinist's level --Sears specifically recommended the Starrett model 96. Starrett doesn'tmake the 96 any more, but their model 98 claims 80-90 second sensitivityfor the 6-in and larger sizes. This leads me to believe that the Atlasspec is likely a typo. However if you're not allergic to Chinese product,the ten-second levels are pretty cheap on sale and will be easy to read. Igot a 20-second Czech level from Victor that was extremely nice. It wassupposed to be 10-second so I sent it back; now I'm sorry. My 10-secondChinese one works fine once I removed the cover over the vial, but it'sU G L Y. I should make a new cover (the original has too much silk-screening and not enough viewing window, maybe I can clean it off).

>What I am considering doing is bolting down the headstock end solidly,>but shimmed to leave a gap between the tailstock end and the stand. Then,

>support on a knife edge the tailstock end of the bed. The bed cannot be>twisted by this form of location. Then measure the gap and fit shims>between the tailstock end mountings and the stand. The fixing bolts, I>intend to leave "nipped up" Not tightened

I think an Atlas lathe would wind itself up like a corkscrew if it weren'tfirmly bolted down. Atlas specifies a *minimum* of 1-5/8" hardwood benchcleated or well doweled together, on 4" square legs bolted to the floor.

david (neither guru nor expert, caveat emptor)David Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941

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Date: Wed, 14 Jan 2004 14:12:40 -0800 (PST)From: Don Smith <airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Repairing a Broken Gearcase

From time to time I see posts from people looking for a gearcase fortheir lathe after the one they have has broken. This is the gearcasethat houses the gears that drive the carriage along the bed. From whatI understand, it is common for the gearcase to break. Anyway, not longago the gearcase on my 10" Atlas broke into 4 pieces. After callingJolene at Clausing, and finding out that the gearcase was about 64.00without the shaft and gears, and 120.00 with shaft and gears, I decidedto try and fix it myself.

I "glued the pieces back together with J B Weld, then I built up thegearcase with J B Weld every that I could to make it as strong aspossible, but not so much that it would interfere with there-installation of the gearcase. So far it has been holding up verywell and only cost me about 4 bucks for the J B Weld. Has anyone elserepaired a broken gearcase with J B Weld? If so, how did it hold upover a period of time?

Don

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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 06:06:32 -0000From: "mtrsickleman47" <mtrsicklemanx~xxearthlink.net>Subject: Re: where to get bed ways reground / is it worth doing?

I had the bed ground on my 12x24 Atlas last winter. It cost me $75.You need to call around to the larger machine shops in your area andsee if they have a surface grinder that will handle something thelength of your bed (in my case 42 inches).If they don't, ask them whothey go to to get their large grinding done because they send it outto somebody, find out who. They should flip the bed upside down andgrind the surface that the feet bolt on first then right side up anddo the top and front and rear edges. The center of the bed should besupported during grinding to prevent sag of the bed on the largemagnetic table. I think it was money well spent and no latherestoration is complete without it being done. Good Luck!

Zort

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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 10:14:41 -0000From: "Ernest Lear" <Ernestx~xxelear2.fsnet.co.uk>Subject: Re: where to get bed ways reground / is it worth doing?

Yes I had my lathe bed reground but the small company that did the job wasin Bristol UK. Walk in with it and a few hours later call back and pick itup. Made sure that it was being done, as to my requirements, before I leftto get a coffee and for then to finish it off. Cost £60. It made and wasin every way a big improvement to this lathe.

As for hand scraping (or flaking as you put it) you need a lot of practiceon something else and be very sure that you can get the results needed todo a lathe bed. Time is also a facture as it could take you a long timeto get the finishes needed. You will also need a very large perfectsurface table and correct angle plates to check the edges for square aswell as being flat. Also the parallels sides got to be better than .001"over the length of the bed. Not easy by just hand scraping.

So have a look around your local small engineering shops to see whatthey can offer in the way of doing the work or pointing you to the rightplace to get it done. If you don't ask you don't get. Best of luck.

Ernest

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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 07:41:56 -0800From: Mark <mfraserx~xxhelix.net>Subject: Way grinding - or flycutting

I was fortunate enough to benefit from a friend's shop and expertise(and generosity) - used his big mill to flycut the surfaceS (emphasismine) of my 6x24 bed and slide and compound, all of which were probablyoriginally machined when the castings were still "green".

It looked to us like Atlas had flycut, rather than ground, the unitoriginally. I posted a rather lengthy story to the group at the time,which outlines some of the cautions to be taken.[SNIP -- SEE MARK'S MSG 13 OCT 2001 ABOVE]

Have to do the top AND bottom of the ways, especially the back....Took more than 60 dollars (or quid) worth of time, so you guys got adeal if the shop did the whole job

mark

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Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2004 23:11:44 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: where to get bed ways reground / is it worth doing?

After you get the relatively soft cast iron ways reground to nearperfection (far better than new) think about, way oil, way wipers andcleanup after each use and wipe down and reoil prior to use...thewear process can be delayed if not avoided.

Louis

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Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:27:26 -0000From: "throwawaytip" <alan.suttiex~xxteckcominco.com>Subject: Re: Where to get bed ways reground - hand scraping as an option

I wouldn't give up on hand scraping as a method of truing up a lathe bedif the services of a suitable machine shop wasn't readily available oryou are on a tight budget.

I scraped the bed on my 10" Atlas (54" bed length) to get rid of wear(.0015" at the chuck end and a similar amount out of straight on the frontshear). It took 10 passes over the bed to correct the wear, at about 30minutes per pass including bluing and checking with a surface plate and4 foot straightedge (had to borrow the straightedge). This means that I wasremoving an average of .0001" per pass - not a heck of a lot in hindsight.

The top of the bed is relatively easy to work on but the sides are a bitmore difficult to scrape due to their small area. I finished up by beddingthe underside of the saddle to the newly flattened bed. Big increase inparallel turning accuracy and a major improvement in rigidity due to bettersaddle to bed contact.

I did have a little experience in hand scraping before I started but thiswas the largest item I had tried. The bed material is quite soft grey ironand scraped well with plain carbon steel scrapers. Regards

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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:23:02 -0800 (PST)From: Eric Johnson <impalacustom_76x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Need a Compound Rest for an atlas 6"

Does anyone know where i could get a compound rest for an atlas 6" lathe?I thought about having it welded and then resurfaced but not sure howwell that would work out. If anyone has any ideas let me know. Mine brokeright in the T part where it tightens against the tool holder. Thanks

Eric

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Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:45:38 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Need a Compound Rest for an atlas 6"

Ebay usually has someone parting out a machine and maybe reasonablealthough I highly recommend pricing with Clausing Atlas prior to anyhasty moves. Parts may or may not be available from Clausing Atlas(574) 533-0371. Several used machinery dealers from time to time haveparts and of course some group members have bone piles in which theymay have something useful. Repair is an option if you have skills anddetemination although welding a casting with a machined surface willprobably distort due to heating and unless done right may not havestrength required. Post welding remachining/grinding can restoreaccurate surfaces. I would think the best course is to find a goodused part as repair will involve considerable effort and may not beanywhere near as good as new.

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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:10:16 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Need a Compound Rest for an atlas 6"

Eric ...the t slot bearing surfaces for the tool post can be machinedoff,& replaced w/ flat bar stock , retained w/ flat head socket screws( not CSSS )this is a common repair ..........would think the torn outparts could be brazed as well ......i wud be VERY cautious abt welding....pre heat ,nickle rod,peening & slow cool down by someone who hasdone a bunch!!! (or u will be welding up the new crack right next tour weld

a new one was VERY pricy , when i hung the toolpost 1/2 off trying toextend the reach 45 yrs ago ,& tore out some pieces ....am sure muchworse today

the t slot on my 110 yr old 14 x 44 has been longtime repairedw/ barstock & slotted flat head screws.....& withstands all.......

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 04:22:48 -0500From: "Cindy & Wayne" <burner4x~xxadelphia.net>Subject: Re: Need a Compound Rest for an atlas 6"

Eric, I have made repair with brazing on cast pieces like the compoundrest, with long-lasting positive results.

Wayne Burner

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Date: Tue, 27 Jan 2004 23:26:30 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Laser leveling

Hi a few weeks ago someone on this list or related lathe list sugestedthat a laser level laid across the bed of a lathe could be used tolevel if you did not have access to a precision level. I did a bit ofexperiment today and it seems the idea has merit.

I took an inexpensive laser level from Harbor Frieght that I use to"shootelevations" on my back yard track and laid it across the ways of my12 X 36. The orginal was to shoot to a horizontal line on the targetwall, but realizing that drawing a really accurate horizontal line wasagain adding an unknown to the equation. So laid the laser across theways and aimed at a single spot about 20 feet away. Moved to the tailstock end of the bed and again laid the laser across the bed aimed atthe same spot. Found on a rough estimate (without really cleaning offthe portions of the bed except for a wipe with a shop towel) that thedifference in the height of the red dot was about 3 or 4 inchesalthough the bed measures level by a cheap bubble level.

I calculated with a 20 foot base measurement (aprox as the lathe isset out from the end wall a foot or so.) and estimated six inch widebase the measuring system gives a multiplication factor of about 40:1.

In my opinion this would be a cheap way to measure the parallelism ofthe bed (not level, necessarly) with an inexpensive device readilyavailable (and you can use the laser to hang pictures for your wifealso, which most of would not do with an expensive precision level.)Therefore next time I start any major project I will follow theprocedure with more careful measurements.

I recommend this type of measurement for parallelism of your bed andI have not been wrong for almost 15 minutes now.

Whoever suggested it, I want to thank you for thinking outside the box.

John Meacham In the high desert of California

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Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 12:36:40 ESTFrom: jmartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Laser leveling

Good idea, but I don't think the laser level will give you anythinglike the precision you'll want for accurately leveling the lathe bed.Graduations on a standard machinist's bench level are .005" per foot,which would be a tenth of an inch at 20 feet. Would be tough to readwith a laser, I think.

But, it's not the standard levels which are generally used to levela lathe bed - it's the master precision levels, with graduations of.0005" per foot. Which translates to one hundredth of an inch on the

wall at 20 feet. Granted, you don't have to be within one graduation,but that's the kind of accuracy you're looking for. The 3-4"difference on your wall equals a .3" to .4" difference with a two-footbubble level. If yours couldn't pick that up, it's not much of a level.All that said, I bolted my 618 down without leveling and get accuracyto .001". Sometimes, lucky is better than good!

John Martin

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Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:12:08 -0000From: "Harprit Singh Sandhu" <Harprit_Sandhux~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Lathe alignment technique

Detailed procedure for aligning a lathe headstock and tailstock.

Things to remember:The axis of the bed is the master surface that you cannot modify so we have to fit everything to it.The cross slide needs to be at right angles to the bed. This may not be so, so keep this in mind.The cross side should cut a very very very very slightly concave surface when cutting right. (If the headstock is off you will not be able to do this.)

First the headstock. It has to be parallel to the bed. Up and down. For now let us assume this is ok. In and out Left and right along the bed does not matter. Let's assume that the case is hopeless. A 6 inch rod in the chuck is 1/4 inch out of line with a point in the tailstock.

First face the end of the bar so you can see where the center is. Next pull the tailstock out 1/4 inch and drill a small center on the rotating center of the bar as close as you can. Next bring a tailstock center up to this. (So things don't flex when we take the cuts.)

Now you can cut two 1/4 inch long spots on the bar with the cross slideat the exact same setting. One near the chuck and one near thetailstock. These when measured accurately, will tell you how far thelathe is off. Now we have an idea of what the problem is. (In realitythis will not be 1/4 inch but a few thou.)

Run a calculation to get at idea of how much has to be taken offsomewhere along the headstock base to get things right. Since shimstock is cheap, this is often a good solution. Using shims does notdestroy anything and they can be used to effective add material to thecasting! Use shims first and then if you get brave you can scrape andfile and whatever. So now you can play with the headstock till you getit right.

The up and down adjustment is a bit harder, but similar. You will haveto shim the tailstock up to drill the center hole at the rotatingcenter. Then follow the same plan. Since the tailstock has to slide backand forth, it cannot be shimmed; so all the shimming needs to be done

at the headstock.

It is also possible that the tailstock will have to be scraped and thenthe headstock brought to its centerline. Unfortunately that's the wayit is.

TestIf you can put a small say one inch long rod in the headstock and reama 1/4 inch hole in it. Remove it and the chuck and using a drill andreamer in the headstock in another chuck ream a 1/4 inch hole in a 1/2inch rod held in the tailstock you have a test rig. Put the first chuckback on the headstock.

You now have two reamed holes that should be perfectly in line. Aground rod with clean ends should be able to be moved simultaneouslyin both holes by hand with no or minimal resistance. This is yourgoal. Right?

Commercially they used very accurately made plates held in the Morsetapers to check alignment. I don't know what they do now but CNCmachines have created a brave new world!

Thanks/RegardsHarprit Singh SandhuAuthor of that "Spindles" book. Considered by some to be a treatiseon how to use a lathe to do some interesting things.

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NOTE TO FILE: This next 6" owner had a problem engaging the half nuts.The most common causes and solutions were suggested by members but theproblem was unusual and resolved by the owner through close observation.

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Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2004 21:28:57 -0000From: "Ray Feldman" <rayfelx~xxusa.net>Subject: Now I can engage the lead screw!

Since there was so much interest in my problem engaging the lead screw,and such a tremendous response offering advice, I want to fill ineveryone on the final resolution.

As I said in one of my earlier messages, the square end of the half nutcamshaft had been peened over where it fit in the handle, and it wasimpossible to remove the cam without destroying it and the handle. Itwas obvious that someone had done some "modifications" to the half nutcam assembly.

With the whole carriage on my bench, I removed the set screw, springand ball from the bottom of the apron. I could then shine a light in theopening and see that there was no detent at the maximum down positionof the handle. I thought that the half nut threads must be camming outof the lead screw threads since there was no detent to hold it place. Ithen happened to look very closely at the movement of the half nut asI swung the handle through its range of motion. I observed that the halfnuts were not in the maximum closed position at the end of the handle's

rotation, but rather quite a few degrees up from the end of its travel.In fact, I was opening up the half nuts a bit when I put the handle inits fully down position. This might not have been a problem if the halfnuts were pristine, but mine were a bit worn.

I decided to use extreme measures. I carefully swung the handle backand forth until I located the absolute maximum closure of the half nuts.I then clamped the handle so it could not move, ran a drill into thedetent ball opening and drilled a dimple into the side of the cam. Afterreassembling the ball, spring and set screw, I could feel a nice firmdetent when the half nuts were fully closed. After I reinstalled thecarriage and the lead screw bearing, it worked perfectly! I was ableto fully engage the lead screw both forward and reverse, with smoothconsistent movement of the carriage.

Thanks everyoneRay

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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:48:32 -0000From: "nesenrik" <nesenrikx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

I have a 1940s vintage Craftsman AA 109.20630 lathe. I am a newbie andwas planning to use this as a learning tool. My first attempt was totry to round out the end of a shaft on a hexagonal paint mixer. Thingswent well during the first few passes, then about halfway through apass there was a loud thump and the part stopped turning. The gears andthe motor were still turning, but the drive shaft (head stock spindle,I think) that the chuck was mounted on was not turning. The spindle nowrotates freely. Is there a shear pin inside the gear cluster that mayhave broken? What parts will need to be removed to make this repair?Is it something a novice can fix?

Thanks,Rick

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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 18:12:13 -0500From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

There is no shear pin. If the headstock spindle turns freely withoutmoving the back gear, the only thing that could have broken is thewoodruff key. Unusual, but cheap. You can get another at your localHome Depot. Remove the gear on the end of the shaft, remove the collarjust inside the headstock, and slide the back gear toward where thepulley was. You will see the slot in the shaft for the woodruff key.Let me know if you have other questions.

Bill Hardinwww.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support

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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 2004 22:24:35 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

There are two pins controlling the back gears. I don't know what you wererunning in, I presume straight drive.

If so, the first pin, which goes thru the headstock into the largeplanetary gear housing, would be pulled to the "disengaged" position.

The other pin is a sliding pin on the back of the planetary housing, witha thumbnut on it. When slid towards the housing periphery it engages andlocks the planetary gears, so you then can use direct drive.

When slid towards the center, it frees the internal gears. Then the firstpin has to be slid to "engaged" when it locks the planetary housing to theheadstock, setting the unit in back gear. It slides into a hole in theplanetary housing.

Sounds like your sliding pin slid out of engagement. Then the spindle isfreed and there isn't any force turning it other than bearing friction.Both the planetary spider and the ring gear were un-restrained.

The thumbnut is for locking it in either position. You would have to turnthe shaft and housing until they line up, slide the pin outwards all theway being sure it engages in the drive notch (which you have to feel,there isn't much to see), and tighten the thumbnut.

If the thumbnut is off, and the threaded stem of the pin is not visible,you will have to disassemble, find the pin, and put it back together.

Jerrold

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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 2004 09:46:37 -0500From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

Guys, no matter what happens with the back gear locking pin and plunger,the body of the planetary gear housing is locked to the spindle with thewoodruff key. If his spindle moves freely without causing the back shell

to turn, it has to have the woodruff key missing.

Bill Hardinwww.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support

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Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 03:17:04 -0000From: "nesenrik" <nesenrikx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

Thanks Bill, the planetary gear housing is still locked to the spindle.The drive pulleys are not driving the planetary gear housing, so I'llhave to get inside to see why. I'll report my findings after I havea look. Probably this weekend.

Rick

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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 2004 22:25:42 -0500From: "Bill Hardin" <william.hardinx~xxverizon.net>Subject: RE: Re: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

Then Jerrold (and others) are probably right. Locking pin or plunger.

Bill Hardin www.homeshopsupply.com Craftsman 109 Lathe Support

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Date: Thu, 4 Mar 2004 14:46:20 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Shear Pin in 109 lathe?

Key Material? What was original lathe key made of. Last Summer I had toreplace key on lawnmower. Key was made of a soft alloy (zinc oraluminum). Using common steel woodruff key would have worked, but,the designer/maker had a reason...

Louis

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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 06:23:12 -0000From: "jim010703" <jamespalx~xxmsn.com>Subject: Craftsman 6x18 Lathe

I'm replacing the headstock pulley and the ID of the bushing does notmatch the shaft OD. The new ID is .787 and the OD of the shaft is .812.The old pulley bushing ID measures .816. Do these need to be sized ordid I get the wrong parts? I don't have a choice as the old pulley isshot and I think the fit is a little big. I could try to swap thebushings, but this would not be my first choice. If it needs to besized what would be the best method?

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Date: Mon, 01 Mar 2004 20:28:01 -0000From: "jim010703" <jamespalx~xxmsn.com>Subject: Re: Craftsman 6x18 Lathe

> The replacement bushing probably fits several applications. Bushings> are usually meant to be pressed in and bored to size. This can also

> be done with an expansion reamer though boring is preferred.> Walnut Charlie

Charlie, this makes sense. What would be a good setup for boring? I have asmall mill drill available. I believe I can properly set the pulley in thebed. I will need to use some oak blocks. What kind of clearance should Ishoot for? I might have to pick up an expansion reamer and do it that way.

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Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2004 00:41:41 -0000From: "walnut_charlie" <walnut_charliex~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Re: Craftsman 6x18 Lathe

The easiest way would be in the lathe but I'm guessing that your's is apartso a drill mill should work fine. Clamp the pulley down and indicate theinside of the bushing to find the center of it. Then you can use a boringhead or a chucking reamer to take it to .001-.002 larger than the journalon the shaft. Make sure the surface on the shaft is OK before you size thebushing. An expansion reamer will work but it can be tricky getting thesize correct. If you go the expansion reamer route, take very light cutsand and adjust the reamer small amounts on each pass through the bushing.Also use oil to lube the reamer.

Charlie

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Date: Sat, 06 Mar 2004 23:18:12 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Babbitt bearings aon a 10 inch atlas lathe

vitopalazzo wrote:>Does anyone know what the babbitt bearings should be torked down to.>Or did i make a mistake in cleaning them.

Not much torque. You are supposed to loosen the bolts for high speed (I'mguessing anything over 1000 RPM) and gently tighten them for lower speedwork. The shims are compressible, and if you crush them, you will bind thespindle. (You did notice those shims under the bearing caps, and put themback exactly where they came from, didn't you?) As the babbit wears, youcan remove shims in .004" increments. I used aluminum foil to makeintermediate shims so I could have finer control.

Obviously, you are having a problem, or you wouldn't have asked. What is

the problem? If the lathe binds up when you just barely snug the boltsdown, you must have lost at least one shim, or mixed them up, or mixedup the bearing caps. You will have to get the proper shims back in thereto make it run again.

If you lost the shims, you can make new ones from shim stock. It would takea lot of aluminum foil layers to build up the full hickness of those shimpacks. make sure you have lots of oil available to the bearings. They willseize quickly if allowed to run dry. When the babbit is in good shape, theclose fit keeps the oil in. When the bearings are worn egg-shape, the poorfit pumps oil out, and it is a problem to keep them running cool. Thereshould be an oil wick in the bottom of the oil cups. An emergency wick canbe made out of cotton shoelace material for sneakers.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 22:02:06 -0000From: "vitopalazzo" <vpalazzox~xxcomcast.net>Subject: babbitt bearings

Jon: You're right I am having a problem. When I took off the caps fromthe bearings there were shims on the left side of the headstock, butthe left side (side closest to the chuck) did not have any. Alsothere was no wick in either bearing. The problem is the right sidewill not hold any oil it loses oil very fast. When I turn on thelathe, I hade a 1/2" aluminum rod about 3" long in the chuck. When Iturn on the lathe the piece wobbled. I measured about .025variations at the spindle. I assume the bearings are shot.

I am a novice at metalworking. What would be my options for fixingthis problem? I assume repairing the bearing. Is it possible tobore out the headstock and replace the Babbitt bearings with Timkenbearings? Anything else. What would be the best approach to fix thisproblem? Cost is also a consideration.

Vito

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:52:23 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: babbitt bearings

>there was no wick in either bearing. The problem is the right side>will not hold any oil it loses oil very fast.

You need a wick. A piece of white cotton sneaker shoelace works prettywell, and you probably want it to drip on the fast side with bearings

in this shape. (The wool wick drips slower than cotton.) Going to aheavier oil will also slow the draining out. You can go to SAE 30without much trouble, although it may cause heating at high speed.

>When I turn on the>lathe, I hade a 1/2" aluminum rod about 3" long in the chuck. When I>turn on the lathe the piece wobbled. I measured about .025>variations at the spindle. I assume the bearings are shot.

No, it more than likely is the chuck jaws. The spindle can still runtrue with worn bearings.

>Is it possible to bore out the headstock and replace the>Babbitt bearings with Timken bearings?

No, the Timken bearings are much larger, and require a completelydifferent headstock casting. The Timken outer races will not fitbetween the existing bolts.

The best option is to re-babbit the bearings. What you do is make wooddams to keep the babbit from flowing out between the spindle/bearingspace. These would basically be pieces of wood with close-fitting holesthat slide onto the spindle from both sides of the bearing. Some peopleuse modelling clay, putty, caulk and other oddities. C-clamps could beused to hold the wood dams in place. You cover the spindle with a veryheavy layer of soot from a candle or rich oxy-acetylene flame, this isyour mold release agent. You scrape some more clearance in the bearings,and then cut little gouges in the bearing ID to give the new babbitmetal something to grip to.

The final step is the alignment. The best way on an Atlas 10 or 12" is tomove the headstock to the middle of the bed, and borrow another tailstockfrom somebody, and install the ram backwards. (This requires driving out(or unscrewing) the tailstock bearing assembly.) You use dead centers fromboth ends to get the spindle lined up precisely with the bed. The carriagecan be left in the middle at first to ride a dial indicator along thespindle to verify that it is perfectly aligned with the bed. Then, run thecarriage out of the area, put the headstock in there, and bring thetailstock back in to support the spindle. Assemble the bearings withoutshims or oil cups, and bolt down. Assemble the dams, and then pour yourmelted babbit into the oil cup holes. After it has cooled, remove thebearing caps. These will have to be broken away, as the thin layer ofbabbit surrounding the spindle will be one piece. If the babbit pour isgoing to be a thick layer, you will need to provide some sort of blade toseparate the babbit before the pour.

If you did the mold release properly, you should be able to pull thespindle out of the bearings without too much trouble. You may have touse steel wool or careful application of a sharp blade to remove anyspots of babbit that have adhered to the spindle. The bearings shouldbe fairly smooth, but may have some misalignment with the spindle when

it all goes back together again. You can use blue spotting dye ormagic marker to paint the bearing and then insert the spindle and seewhere it is rubbing hard. Scrape the high spots with a bearing scraperblade until the contact is more even. Cut a diagonal groove in theupper bearing half to act as an oil groove similar to what was therebefore. Drill through the oil cup hole so you can get the oil cupsback on. Make shims out of shim stock or aluminum foil as needed.You won't need to add much clearance with the casting method.

The most critical part is the scheme you use to get the spindle intoalignment before the pour. If it is not right, there's no way to adjustthe spindle into alignment except to do it over. And, a spindle thatis misaligned to the bed will drive you crazy.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 08 Mar 2004 21:56:23 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: babbitt bearings

>I assumed it was the bearings because the wobble is there with both>the 3 jaw and four chuck, and I measured about 25 thousants>variations on the spindal. when I cut the aluminum rod along its>length the surface is very rough.

Whenever you change chucks from one lathe to another, it is standardpractice to face off the chuck backplate so the chuck will run withoutwobble. If you don't make the backplate register an interference fitto the chuck ID, then you can adjust the chuck into proper alignmentwith a little tapping and measuring.

The bearings will not cause anything to wobble, unless the spindlejournals are no longer round. This happens on IC engines due to thecompression, but would be extremely rare on a lathe. A bent spindleWILL cause things to wobble, but unless it is severe, refacing thebackplate should at least help.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 23:08:45 ESTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: babbitt bearings

chuck jaws worn so they dont hold at the end can cause the above...i havehad them so worn that the cuts look like they were planed....check runoutat spindle ..... dont beleive a properly set up totally worn babbitbearing will have anywhere near that runout ...ur caps are not set upright/ chuck jaws need truing ...a lathe w/worn babbitt is still usablefor avg. work babbit can be repoured & line bored on the lathe ,BUT , uneed to know what ur doing...most replace w/ a timpken bearing headstock ( ebay,dave sobel ,meridian

machinery,plaza machinery ) .....if u repour ,will probably need to turnspindle true again,probably after welding it up ....if u want to USE it,do what u need to tighten down the caps so .001 to .002 clearance ....shim,/grind top caps...whatever needed..put an old tyme adjustable dripoiler on to meter oil (wholesale tool)....bearing will be eggshaped butusable...will just go thru a lot of oil...

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 03:52:52 ESTFrom: jmartin957x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: babbitt bearings

<< John I assumed it was the bearings because the wobble is there withboth the 3 jaw and four chuck ... Vito >>

If it's the bearings, you should get movement at the chuck if you chucka heavy bar and try to pull/push in various directions. Measure thechuck, as the bar may bend. No rotation needed, although you can trythe pushing at several positions. If you get movement, it's the bearings.

Otherwise, it could be a bent spindle, a worn chuck, or too flexiblea test bar. Some aluminums can be tough to cut well.

John Martin

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 15:59:30 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Shot babbit bearings

>>> What would be my options for fixing this problem? I assume repairingthe bearing. Is it possible to bore out the headstock and replace theBabbitt bearings with Timken bearings? Anything else. <<<

I don't think you could fit roller bearings into a babbit bearingheadstock, they are different castings. But, you can re-babbet bearingsfairly easy, we used to re-babbet bearings in our hot-rods in my misspentyouth. The idea is to obtain babbet metal from one of the usual suppliers.When you want to pour melted babbet into a bearing shell you have to"tin" the shell so the babbet will bond to the cast iron. Put a shaftof the size of the spindle (or the spindle itself) in the shell supportedwhere it is supposed to be in the center of the shell. Put smoke from acandle or ac/o torch on everyplace you don't want the babbet to stick.Pour in the molten babbet metal, let cool and put your spindle in therewith some bluing, plastigage or something that will transfer (We used touse lipstick) see where the coloring transfers and use an old threecorner file with the teeth ground off to scrape away where things touch.

Repeat till you see a mottled appearance of the transfered color andyou are done. Do this with all the shims in place as it may wear fairlyrapidly at first, depending on how good a job you do. Run slow at firstto "break in" you new bearings. Lindsay has a couple of books with moredetaled instructions.

I also used to run many large pumps all with babbeted bearings and packedstuffing boxes and had less troubles on start up processes than withball or roller bearings and mechanical seals.

John MeachamIn the high desert of California

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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 2004 14:31:53 -0800From: "Bob Barker" <bobbarkerx~xxmindspring.com>Subject: Re: Shot babbit bearings

After the bearings are poured how do you make the split between the cap andhead stock? Is the spindle or wooden spindle undersize so one will be ableto bore the bearings to the proper size for the critical final spindle fit?

Thanks, Bob

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Date: Tue, 09 Mar 2004 21:59:05 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Shot babbit bearings

>After the bearings are poured how do you make the split between>the cap and head stock? Is the spindle or wooden spindle undersize>so one will be able to bore the bearings to the proper size for the>critical final spindle fit?

Because of the critical alignment needed of the spindle, you would bebest to set up some sort of fixture to align the real spindle. On theoriginal bearings, the shims run all the way to almost touch the spindle.If you put some aluminum foil or thin shim stock in there, it wouldprobably allow the bearing to split easily at that line after the babbithardens. If you have to do much scraping of the bearing to fit it, youwill end up knocking the spindle out of alignment with the ways.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 2004 17:18:16 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Pouring bearings

>After the bearings are poured how do you make the split between the cap>and head stock?

We used to pour one half at a time with the bearing horizontal. Put thecaps upside down on a work bench. Then pour the bottoms right on the lathe.You can use the shaft that is going to go into the bearing blocking it upa tad more than half way. (Every home mechanic needs a "tad" rule). Iguess the right way would be to bore the partly finished bearing from a jigof some kind from the lathe bed, but final fitting is done by scraper.Before melting out the old babbet make note of any grooves, oil holes etcso you can duplicate the old bearings. Either a digital camera or Polaroidcamera is a good thing to have to take pics of the before so you can putthings back the way they came out.

John MeachamIn the high desert of California

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Date: Sun, 7 Mar 2004 21:59:03 -0800From: "Spurrs" <spurrsx~xxlegendjsm.net>Subject: Keeping the ways oiled and tailstock moving

Following the rebuild of my 10-42, there remained the remains of the feltpads that are attached to the carriage. They had become hard and brittle,not able to hold and supply the oil to the bed ways. Having replaced themwith felt intended to stop furnature marking floors, I can vouch for theeffectiveness of these simple pads for keeping oil where it is needed. Wellworth checking yours and replacing if they no longer hold oil. Easy way tocheck, is to remove them and apply oil. If it soaks in quickly then theyare OK. If not then well worth replacing.

Also, I was fed up with the tailstock clamp biting and preventing smoothsliding of the tailstock unless the clamp nut was loosened off too much.Fitting a spring between the clamp plate and tailstock casing keeps theclamp in line and allows the tailstock to be clamped by turning the nut bythe amount allowed by the space between the webs of the tailstock casting.

And finally. The scary part. Clamping a 2 inch bar in the chuck -new- anda 0.0001 inch clock on the carriage, the ease with which 4 thou movementcould be achieved by pushing on the bar was scary. Even some force on thecountershaft bracket or pushing down on the carriage was having an effect.

This explains why a tool with a well rounded point continues to "clean up"after 2 passes and why a sharp point does not. I am not too botheredthough. Machine is accurate to a thou and parts off in steel withoutproblem.

Have fun!Nigel

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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 2004 17:15:18 -0800From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Re: Keeping the ways oiled and tailstock moving

I'll note that sometimes just breaking the edge of the casting on thetailstock can keep the friction reasonable.

My 618 has the problem of when you loosen the tailstock, the clamp justfloats about underneath and when you move the tailstock, the clampdoesn't quite follow along and drags trailing the tailstock and thusthe force of movement goes up.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay NEW! http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 2004 21:24:09 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Digest Number 1857

> It helps to know how they come apart, and go back together too.> Doing this only helps in your knowlege of how this thing works.

A nice little trick when taking your lathe apart for moving and/orcleaning is to get a digital or poloroid camera and take photos of theway things were put together. When some parts are "stacked" for instancewashers that come off in a particular order the photo will show you howthey should go back. And watch out for shims in unexpected places thatmay stick to the part you lift off and fall on the floor and you don'tknow where they came from. When I went to move my 12 inch from thegarage to the shop I removed the countershaft of course, took off thetail stock(just slides off the end) and removed the carrage by takingoff the right hand bearing for the lead screw and cranking the carrageas far as I could and pushing off the bed. Pried up the bed and headstock and put a 2X4 under each end (Be sure to put some kind of spacerlike a 3/4 inch wood stock under the 2X4 for room for someone to grabhold and lift) That was my wife's suggestion! I have four young stronggrandsons living near and the job was easy. But, watch when you liftthat sucker is top heavy! OH! BTW check that the 2X4s are short enoughto get through any doorways.

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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 19:56:48 -0000From: "smemsic" <smemsicx~xxyahoo.com>

Subject: The grinding of the ways has begun

The grinding of the bed ways of our model 101 28990 has begun. The bedmeasures 54 inches long with nothing mounted. We found a large job shopin Grand Rapids that is grinding the bed with a surface grinder thathas a 12 foot capability. It is a monster machine made in 1971. It hasa repeatability of 1 tenth of a thousandth of an inch. They charge$60.00 per hour with no minimum. I have been there for all the work onour lathe bed.

We had figured that the major problem would be the groove that had beenworn in to one of the ways. It turned out that the groove was notmuch of a problem at all. Other issues would arise.

On the bottom of the bed where the feet attach, the surface was painted,but you could plainly see the tool marks from a fly cutter that wasused to flatten the casting. After a though measuring the bed wasplaced on the mag plate upside down so that we could take a light cuton the leg mounting surface. Before the mag was energized a series offeeler gages were used to determine any gaps between the ways and themag plate in its resting state. As these were located they were shimmedwith appropriate sized shim stock. The bottom foot mounting surface wasindicated and the mag plate energized to 50%. The indicator showed nomovement.

The grinding began with passes of .0005. One of the tailstock cornerswas brought down .0025 before the wheel started to touch the nextcorner, the headstock corner on the same side. Passes continued untilall four corners had been ground flat with just a light reference markleft at the last corner, the other tailstock corner. The total neededto be taken off to get the foot mounting surfaces flat was .0125.

Once the bottom was flat the bed was rotated way side up. It wasre-indexed with the mag plate off. The ways showed a crown in thecenter of one of the ways of .009. This crown was centered from bothends and was highest at the inside of the non grooved way. Thismatched where we had shimmed.

With the crown indexed the mag was energized to 50% and showed adeflection of the crown down of less than .0004. The center of the bedwas not shimmed. Light passes were begun. The way with the groovehappened to be the highest way. After .004 the way with the groovewas ground corner to corner with the length of the groove reduced byabout half. By .008 the groove was gone. However the other way wasonly being ground on the outside corners. Grinding continued until.013 at with point both ways were ground corner to corner with a smallreference mark left at the non-grooved tail stock out side.

We have not ground the underside of the no-rack way yet. A new wheelwill be put on the machine so that the wheel can grind the way close tothe bed without hitting the wheel arbor.

Obviously this bed was way out of whack. I can not say what the firstowner did as far as mounting it to the floor. For the last 25 yearsor so it has sat on the factory supplied bench cabinet (a very stoutcabinet and bench with the motor underneath) mounted to a levelconcrete floor. Reportedly it had been leveled with an engineers level

when it was installed 25 years ago.

After the underside way is ground the sides of the ways will be ground.I will update after that is accomplished. Comments?

Elliott

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Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 23:35:20 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: The grinding of the ways has begun

Once your bed is ground, use some marking blue on the bed and spot thesaddle ways. You might have surprises. I discovered that my saddle hadwarped significantly. This might explain the groove on your bed.

Take the advantage of this job in order to surface the bottom bearingplates at the same time. (It is a 5 min job on such a machine.)When you re-assemble your lathe you will have to be careful aboutshimming. You might have to re-align your lead screw as your saddlewill have moved down. You are lucky to have such company in your area.

Guy CadrinGatineau, QC Canada

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Date: Thu, 01 Apr 2004 02:53:26 -0000From: "smemsic" <smemsicx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Old Craftsman vs new Chinese, bubble burst

Over the weekend I definitely was of the opinion that one would be betteroff buying a used Craftsman/Atlas lathe as opposed to buying a Chinese rig.I am now of the opinion that the newer lathe is the way to go.

As I have been chronicling, I am rebuilding a 101 28990. It is an under-cabinet model. The cabinet that comes with the lathe has all of the motorand motor speed control is located in the cabinet under the headstock.http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page4.html

When we ground the bed we found just bizarre stuff. The bed and ways werecrowned, twisted, and bent. There were NO two surfaces that matched. Thisbed was one tortured piece of metal. We fixed everything. We thought.

As we were getting ready to reassemble the lathe, I noticed that the two castfeet that the bed sits on, were raw castings with not one machine mark onthem. I put them on a surface plate and indexed them. There are two large

bearing surfaces on the bottom, and three bearing surfaces on the top. Notwo surfaces was within .019in. the worst surface was .098 inches off. Nowonder the bed was twisted. When one tightened the bolts on the bed andcabinet, it would put all kinds of pressures on the bed.

After using a surface grinder I brought them to flat, parallel, and both ofequal height we thought we were in good shape. Then we went to put the chippan back on the bench.

This bench/cabinet is a massive piece, it has six "feet", weighs about 350lbs with out the lathe bed. We are in a rented building and can't drillinto the floor. We had anticipated the "feet" issue and had welded six nutsto the feet and added adjustable feet. As we started to put the chip pan onwe noticed that the channel that the pan sits on in the cabinet section hadbeen welded below the level of the surrounding cabinet. We would have putthe chip pan on and leveled the bench/pan, then bolted down the bed andtwist it up. We shimmed the channel to the level of the top of the cabinet.Once we had completed that we tried to level the bench. No way could weget it level.

The whole bench system is twisted. Up on closer examination we find thatthis cabinet has lots of different holes that were part of some other setup. The cabinet portion was probably used for some other machine that theymade. They "adapted it". They added a shelf, another set of legs, andknocked a couple of pieces out of a vent to mount the motor.

I have been amazed at the poor quality of many of the components. Since thislathe has the automated cross-feed it was built after 1967http://www.lathes.co.uk/atlas/page5.html Maybe by that time they had startedto have money problems and changed the quality of the components. There issimply no way that this lathe was going to cut straight. There is no way thatyou could set the lathe up with out twisting and bending the bed. Atlas didput out a service bulletin about taking the bow or crown out with shims.

If I was starting again I would go buy a new lathe made in India if I hadto, and that sucks.

elliott

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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 2004 22:35:46 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Old Craftsman vs new Chinese, bubble burst

Sounds like you have found more than your share of troubles...and solvedthem. Some of the problems were no doubt original to the machine,others... twisting bowing and bending might be attributed to prior useand misuse. Since this is an Atlas Craftsman Forum we do not hear a lotabout import owners problems, but, enough to know that quality and designfaults exist.....so I would not be so hasty as to jump ship withoutlooking first...especially now that you are getting to know and correctthe problems with your present machine.

Louis

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Date: Thu, 08 Apr 2004 12:00:14 -0500

From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Help, headstock alignment question

smemsic wrote:>Well, the 101 28990 that we have been rebuilding is running. It>seems that the headstock needs to be aligned. The inside of the ways>wasn't touched during the grinding so I don't think that that has any>influence on the taper.

Was the way grinding specifically aligned to the inner face of the ways?If not, then there may be some misalignment to them, now. You can use aplain micrometer to measure the front to back width of the ways. Takeone measurement at the left and right ends of the bed and compare. If morethan a thousandth of an inch off, you have a problem.

>The headstock fits tightly in between the ways. There is a block>with a large bolt that clamps the ways from underneath on the>business end of the headstock. There are two bolts that come up>through the ways into the back end. The fit is such that I don't>believe it can be moved. The run out is about .001 over two inches>and is very consistent.

There are really only a couple of possibilites. From the model number, I'mpretty sure this is a Timken bearing spindle, so misaligned babbit bearingcaps should not be part of the situation. So, the only remainingpossibilities are a warped bed or that the grinding was not aligned withthe center ways. The result is the same, the headstock fits into a tightfit that is not parallel to the main ways. How do you fix it? Well, thehorrible, rough way is to take a die grinder and open up the spot where the

headstock fits enough to allow it to be aligned. Since you know which wayit needs to be adjusted, you can grind just a little at two oppositecorners to give the amount of movement needed.

How far off is it, anyway? How did you determine it is misaligned?Are you turning tapers, using a test rod between centers, or what?If checking alignment with an unsupported thick bar in the chuck, besure the bar is not bending. Probably the best way to do this is toput a 1/2 to 1" diameter hardened and ground shaft in the chuck, andalign it for minimum wobble. Then, use a dial test indicator on thetoolpost to read close to the chuck, and again farther out. Don't use abar longer than 1 foot, as it will sag a lot. If the bar wobbles as thechuck is rotated, then use the average indicator measurement.

Oh, yes, make absolutely sure the bed and the headstock base are completelyclean before installing it. And, since it was reground, it may now have avery sharp edge that could peel a small chip off the headstock base andthrow it out of alignment. You might need to break that edge where theheadstock is an interference fit in the bed, to prevent any chips fromdeveloping as you plant the headstock in place.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 02:06:03 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: Help, headstock alignment question

When I rebuilt my lathe after a flood damage, I encountered the sameproblem. I checked the clearance between the tailstock slide. I wasable to insert at least one 0.001" shim at both ends of the headstockIn order to allow fine adjustment on the headstock orientation, Idrilled 2 holes at the end of the bed ways in order to move the headstocksideways. Set screws 1/4 NF 28 with pins were inserted in those holes.This allowed me to have a fine adjustment on the headstock alignment.

I tuned it until I couldn't read any error on diameter on a piece ofbrass stock 1 in dia over at least 2 in long, with a very fine honedcutting tool. This took a while but it worked. The use of ascientific calculator, dial indicator and a 1 ft long piece of steelallowed an exact estimation of the angle to rotate the headstock. Theheadstock is set to rotate around the contact points close to the chuck.

When you tight down the headstock holding bolts, everything moves.Ensure you take readings before and after you loosen everything.

Machine tool reconditioning has a procedure to check the alignment ofthe headstock that calls for a ground test bar with MT3 taper at oneend. If interested to the procedure, write a email to me directly. Iwill forward it to you. With a bit of thinking, you can adapt theprocedure to inexpensive equipment available, and 2 grams of brain.

Guy CadrinGatineau, QC Canada

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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 09:29:41 EDTFrom: cmiller231x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Help, headstock alignment question

In a message dated 4/9/2004, sunny03060x~xxyahoo.com writes:>>> The problem could just as easily lie in the carriage; happened to me...loose gibs, loose compound rest nut in the carriage, allowing slop. <<<

Yes, i also found interference on the edge of the gibs, and the heightof the circular dovetail on the compound was a tad too high, thereforenot allowing the compound to seat completely, causing chatter.

Chris

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 17:31:21 -0000From: "smemsic" <smemsicx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Headstock alignment issues

Thanks for the input on the headstock alignment problem. First of all let meassure you that the saddle was also rebuilt. I used Moglase to create a newbearing surface on the saddle. The entire process was done in such a way asto insure that the crossslide is level with the bed and absolutely perpen-dicular to the chuck. All the surfaces are appropriately tight.

The alignment has been checked first with a ground bar that was chucked andindicated in close to the chuck as we moved away from the chuck the indicatormoved smoothly up. I then put centers in both the headstock and tailstock.The center points were aligned. Between the centers I put a 18 inch threadedrod driven by a dog.. On the rod at each end is a fender washer jammedbetween two nuts. Each fender washer is turned down until round. A finalcut was taken without moving the cutting tool in or out. If every thing isaligned then the washers should be the same size. They are not. At fourteeninches apart the first difference was .020. I adjusted the tailstock and gotit within .008. When you take the rod out and bring the centers togetherthey don't align. I removed the headstock from the ways, checked that there

were no burrs or dirt. The fit is tight with no wiggle without tighteningthe bolts. I indicated the spindle in. As I tightened the bolts there wasless than .001 movement. Yes this is a Timken Bearing headstock.

When the bed was ground the (which I have described in an earlier post) wedid not touch inside the ways because of not wanting this kind of problem.So much for that. The bed definitely had a bend in it. Hell, it had somany bends and twists that I don't know how the saddle could even slide.

The bend (curve) in the bed that would have affected the alignment wasn't asbig as some of the other problems. We took of about .008 of each side whileclamped to angle plates. We had shimmed the down side so as to grind in arelaxed state. While we had miked the width of the ways to ensure they wereequal, it appears that either the headstock is out of alignment with itsself or that the inside ways have a curve in them that averages out to beequal over the entire length.

Since there is no adjustment on the headstock I am coming to the opinion thatI will have to add one or this lathe is pretty much useless. Given my exper-iences, I got to tell you that it would have been far cheaper and a betteroutcome if I had bought a new "offshore" lathe. If I had gotten a new onehome and found out that it was this far out it would have gone back tothe store.

If I am going to adjust it I might as well do it right as opposed to justgrinding some metal way and shimming. Does anyone one the list have any ideasfor creating an adjustment mechanism for this headstock?

Elliott

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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 11:16:01 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Headstock alignment issues

The spindle and tailstock should be in front/rear alignment when they touch.

Up/down alignment is less critical but should still be close as this alsocan make taper problems due to the tool working around the radius of the

work. Turning between centers should not produce a taper or the tailstock isoffset from where it should be and that needs to be corrected.

Turning without being between centers will produce a different result if thebed is warped - something that is different than having an offset tailstock.You can turn a taper due to a warped bed and yet be able to turn perfectlystraight when between centers.

Bob May http://nav.to/bobmay

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Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2004 19:48:53 -0000From: "smemsic" <smemsicx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Headstock alignment issues

Bob, thanks for your reply.The up down alignment is not a problem. The entire bed was ground so every-thing came down at the same rate. It has been checked and is ok. Since Inoticed that you are involved in astronomy, I can guess that you know theneed for lens for cameras have to be pretty accurate. Turning lens barrelsis one of the things that I need to do.

While I can set the tailstock up so that I won't turn a taper, it means thateverything that is a different length would alter the setup. This wouldrequire moving the tailstock to match the new length and then finding outhow much more or less the tailstock would have to be adjusted. The otherproblem is that it eliminates using a chuck which is the majority of what Ineed to turn. I can't begin to tell you how time consuming it would be tohave to turn everything on centers and have to re align the tailstock to anew position. It would also mean building arbors for the tube diameter,which is too big for the centers.

I don't know if you have read the previous post on how the ways were ground.Re: Grinding of the bed ways has begun. It describes the process. The bedis now parallel and flat within .0002. The feet bearing surfaces, the topof the ways, the underside of the ways, and finally the side of the wayswere ground. It has been reassembled on the cast feet which have beenground flat and parallel. These sit on a steel bench which we modified to

sit flat on the floor and has a flat parallel surface on which the feet andthen the bed is bolted. Everything has been leveled with a Starrettmachinist's level (The main level vials have graduations that are approx-imately 80-90 seconds or .005" per foot (0.42 mm per meter)).

The only thing which I can't vouch for is the inside surface of the ways andthe machined surfaces of the headstock. I believe every other surface iswithin .0002.

Until the headstock points directly down the ways I'm screwed.

Elliott

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Date: Fri, 9 Apr 2004 14:46:20 -0700From: "Patrick Lee Rooney" <pl74x~xxearthlink.net>Subject: RE: Re: Headstock alignment issues

The one thing I always liked about my 10F-QC, is the interference fitbetween the headstock and the inside way surface. No matter how many timesover the years I have pulled the headstock off, as long as the matingsurfaces are free of debris, it would return to dead on alignment. Itwasn't always so.

I experienced a similar situation to yours when I first purchased it.Although the bed was nearly unused, I could not get the spindle aligned. Ichecked the obvious, but to no avail. What I DIDN'T check carefully, was themounting surface on the headstock. It is only machined an inch or so oneither end. Mine had been dropped, mushroomed, and fractured. Someone did anice job of brazing and grinding on the bad side, but the other side was un-touched and out of flat about a half thou for just .25 inch at the very end.

I suppose I could have tried grinding, but I instead found a new, undamagedheadstock casting. I swapped out parts, and now enjoy repeatability everytime it comes off for service.

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Date: Sat, 10 Apr 2004 01:28:55 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Headstock alignment issues

This tells you something is wrong, but you have no idea what. Did you level

both ends of the lathe with a master precision level? If not, then the mostlikely cause is your bed is being twisted by the bench or whatever it ismounted on. You MUST level the bed with some type of very sensitive level,to get the two ends completely parallel. If you don't do this, then all theeffort spent in regrinding the bed will be wasted.

>Since there is no adjustment on the headstock I am coming to the>opinion that I will have to add one or this lathe is pretty much useless.

Don't! Unless you measure from the front to back vertical surface of theways, and prove that the inner surfaces are not parallel to the outer, thiswill be a big mistake. Aligning the headstock to a twisted bed will makeit practically impossible to get anything to line up. You MUST alignthe ends of the bed to exact parallelism, or anything else you do willjust be fixing the wrong thing. See if you can find someone in the area whowill loan you a master precision level, or come over and use it on your bed.These levels are extremely sensitive, you can put a hair under one end andit will move the bubble several divisions. You'd be amazed at the differencein the functioning of a lathe you will see when it is properly leveled.(I sure was when I got my M. P. level.) Even my 3500 Lb Sheldon lathewill get a twist in the bed if the feet are not adjusted just right.

>Given my experiences, I got to tell you that it would have been far>cheaper and a better outcome if I had bought a new "offshore" lathe.>If I had gotten a new one home and found out that it was this far out>it would have gone back to the store.

If you had gotten a similar size new lathe and not leveled it, you'd get thesame result.

Jon

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NOTE TO FILE: I'm going to end this particular lathe's sad tale here.The story should serve as a warning that large projects are rarely simple,and any of these old machines should be examined closely, everywhere!,before a commitment to purchase or overhaul is made. Fortunately, thisincident is not typical of the average Atlas owner's experiences. Withmore than just a bit of care and adjustment, the old iron usually doespretty good.

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NOTE TO FILE: As far as is known, standard Atlas lathes left the factorywith beds that had been machine ground. While a custom finish might (?)have been ordered in some cases, it is more likely that an Atlas lathewith scraping marks had that done afterwards -- either properly done tocorrect/refit a worn lathe, or even to counterfeit a quality rework byrandom marks badly applied by a faker. Buyer beware.

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Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 03:05:13 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: ways

"Timothy Stachlewitz" wrote:> A question about the ways on my Atlas TH-54. How did the ways look from> the factory. Were they smooth or flaky looking? I am wondering if mine> have been reworked or not.

>From the description you are giving, your lathe bed was quite likely>hand scraped.

This practice has almost disappeared as it is takes a lot of time togenerate a flat surface.

If the flake looking is seen on all the surface, chances is that youhave a very high quality bed. The same type of marks can be seen onmany old South Bend lathes. More recent south bend lathes were quitelikely surface ground, then manually hand frosted (a technique thatwas used in order to make lubrication oil pocket on bed ways as wellas give a nice esthetic look. (on my SB 10K, there is no trace ofhand scraping, only frosting)

The bed flatness was tested with a master precision straight edgehand scraped to a very high standard. Inaccuracies on the bed werescraped until a flat surface was obtained, therefore producing aflake like pattern. If you are interested about the technique, youcan find everything in the book Machine Tool Reconditioning. In Chapt26, (lathe re-construction) there is a picture of a Atlas Bed thatwas hand scraped. (Page 279)

Surface grinding will produce flat surfaces as flat as the accuracyof the machine. However, the heat generated by the grinding stone cancause some distorsions in castings if the operator doesn't takeappropriate precautions. Surface grinding produces a smooth surface.

Guy CadrinGatineau, QC Canada

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Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2004 09:24:05 -0500From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Re: ways

The grinding without frosting may also indicate a flame-hardened bed,although that isn't true of any Atlas or Craftsman, to my knowledge.

Clausing did offer it I believe, and on the non-hobby machines, such asSouth Bend or Logan, you may find flame-hardening on some models..

Frosting is a pernicious and destructive treatment, which may give oilpockets, but also gives nice pockets for grit to collect in, just like alap. The grit then continuously laps away your sliding surface as you useit. Wear is probably made 10 times as fast as it would otherwise be by thefrosting. A high price to pay for a "trick" look.

The "spangly" finish of a scraped surface looks similar to the spangles of adip-galvanized bucket, only usually finer in grain. It is plenty attractiveenough for anyone, and won't collect grit.

The very worst of the offenders are the ebay sharks, who take a worn surfaceand apply a "frosting" to it to try to make their completely worn out"Rustoleum Rebuild" look factory new. Typically this looks like a bunch of"Nike swooshes" widely spaced.

Not only this false frosting a "dirty lie", it usually looks as if it hasbeen done with a broken shovel by a bored chimp. It has essentiallydamaged the surface in question beyond economical repair. If the unitwasn't worn out before, it is after.

Jerrold

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 20:12:34 -0000From: volzmechatronicx~xxyahoo.comSubject: Re: Re-finishing machine tools

--- In Metal_Shapersx~xxyahoogroups.com, "RJ" wrote: <SNIPPED>>>> I'll be watching for answers to this too. I'm a newbie, and some priorowner of my new-to-me Craftsman 12" lathe put a pretty good notch in thecompound with the chuck jaws. I thought I would use my oxy/acet welder tofill in/build up the area, then grind/file/sand it back to shape. Any reasonNOT to do this...or a better/easier way? RJ <<<

Does the damage impair function or is it just cosmetic? If it works, don'tfix it. There's a strong possibility that if you heat the damaged area tobrazing or welding temps that you will warp it...and then you will have tore-machine it to bring it back to previous specs...if you can. Your lathe...your call. If it's just cosmetic, fill it will epoxy-metal, shape to

form, paint it pretty, and be happy.

If it was mine...and it worked...it would just remain ugly...like it'sowner. Ugly-ness is a standard of pride in my shop: we'll all olde uglybuzzards...but...we work...now and then...when we've had our ration oflong-necks.

Art ("The Ugly Machine Shop"--Houston North)

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Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2004 20:26:29 -0400From: "Carl Corbeau" <ccorbeaux~xxallstream.net>Subject: Re: Re-finishing machine tools

Tig welding cast filler into the ding will give you the best colour matchand the least heat input, if you must make it pretty.

Carl

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Date: Thu, 8 Jul 2004 13:53:46 +1200From: "Phil Sumser" <phil.sumserx~xxxtra.co.nz>Subject: Re: Re: Re-finishing

Hi Carl, I've had great success with the following to fill in large"dings" in my machine tools. Collect some cast iron dust/fine chippingsthe next time you use your shaper and mix it with Araldite (2 tube epoxy)until you get a thick paste which is hard to stir. Ram this mixture intothe "ding" and let harden for a few days. It can then be machined/filedto shape or you can add more to build up big holes. After a few weeksit's as hard as rock. Much cheaper than some other methods as Aralditecan be bought cheaply at most DIY stores. (Acknowledgment and credit forthis tip goes to Toby Wilkinson in Wellington)

Phil SumserNew Zealand

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Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2004 21:13:36 -0500From: "J. R. Williams" <jrwillmsx~xxhal-pc.org>Subject: Re: Digest Number 944

I would go for a material brand :Devcon: which is a powdered iron/steel withan Epoxy base. It sets up hard, easily machined and closely matches the castiron look. Any welding can cause problems. Cast iron can get extremely hardin the heat effected zone and make machining difficult if not almostimpossible. I repaired a couple cut sections in my old milling machine table

and the result was excellent. It is a good material to wipe on roughcastings before painting vs using the "Bondo" material.

JRW

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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 11:09:57 -0000From: "icuneed12" <icuneed12x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Noisy

--- In atlas_craftsman, "Don" wrote:>>My recently purchased QC54 Atlas 10" is what I consider noisy. Is this atrait of this model? The lathe does not show excessive wear anywhere. Imade sure the mesh was correct with the forward/off/reverse selector butit still has that loud rattling sound and the gears are properlylubricated with 30W oil. Thanks, Donald <<

I have also just purchased an Atlas lathe (TH54). I have installed newbearings and it is also quite noisy. My noise appears to originate on thespindle, head end. It is where the gear and the step pulley mesh together.I also wonder if this is normal.

Thanks,Raymond

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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 12:15:27 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Noisy

The back gear can be somewhat noisy, itself, but you usually can't evenhear it because the step pulley is clanging around on the spindle andringing like a bell. But, that racket should stop when it is in directdrive. Do you get this noise both in direct drive and back gear? (Idon't see how that is possible, as the gears are not meshed, then.) Ifyou get a gear grinding noise when the gears are NOT meshed, then it isobviously a very bad bearing.

Jon

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Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2004 18:23:27 +0100From: "Alan Barnett" <aoyt13x~xxdsl.pipex.com>Subject: Re: Noisy

I have a 10" F series no gearbox, I thought the back gears were excessivelynoisy and thought I was alone on this. To try and reduce the noise I havemade new sleeves for the gears cutting down the free play, I have also made

a new stud that holds the 32 tooth idler to the headstock assembly, I havemade the stud thread eccentric to the body so the idler gear mesh can beadjusted by turning the stud. This has made quite a bit of difference but...... its still noisy !

My next step is to make a 32 tooth gear in nylon to see if this will help,if someone has done this perhaps they could stop me from re-inventing thewheel.

The questions I have are:-Are the gears 20deg pressure angle ?What DP do I need to cut this gear ?I assume a No 4 cutter is OK ?

Thanks for any assistanceAlan

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Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2004 23:13:56 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: Re: Noisy

My machine was quite noisy, I guess it is directly related to the gearquality. (101.28990)

A check on my 32-16 compound gear in the gear train showed that the depthof the gear teeth is not constant as it should be. I believe they are diecast gears. I decided to give a couple extra thou clearance to thereversing idler gears, mounting them on excentric studs on the reversinggear lever. I considered this successful. As a test to see if this couldbe a solution for your problem, rotate the reversing gear assembly byhand with remainder of the gear train leading to the gear box disengaged.If you feel no backlash in between some of the gear teeth, you have thesame problem as I did. Now, run it under power and listen. Most of thegearing noise comes from the spindle gear, reverser gears or the compoundgear. My two reversing gears are now mounted on ball bearings.

Combined with good lubrication, my modifications significantly reducedthe noise down, to a point that up to 800 RPM it produces less noise thanit used to do at 500 RPM with my old configuration.

At some point, I had a bakelite gear that replaced the 48T idler gear.This also reduced the noise. The gear was damaged when I accidentallyengaged the split nuts while the saddle was locked. Now I understand whySouth Bend gears were manufactured out of cast iron. (Cast iron absorbsvibrations better than the aluminium alloy used by Atlas.)

I would replace some of the gears in the gear train with Delrin gearsas a trial in the near future. My target gears would be the reverseridling gears.

Guy Cadrin

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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 18:32:21 +0100From: "Nigel Spurr" <spurrsx~xxlegendjsm.net>Subject: Re: Noisy

Noise:1. Motor vibration passing through machine - Isolate motor mounts.2. Countershaft bearings - Grease3. Spindle bearings - Thick oil, make sure there is no play.4. Pulley rattling on shaft - Carefully adjust the various spindle mounted parts to minimise end float. Use of way oil also helps. I am considering fitting a thin spring washer between the bull gear and pulley next time I have the spindle out.5. Back gear - No hope!6. Spindle gears. Good gear design practice suggests that gears with even numbers of teeth will be noisy. I suggest making/ obtaining odd tooth numbers together with one of the gears in delrin. Better still, fit a tumbler reverse. In the meantime, use of way oil makes a worthwhile noise reduction.7. Wear ear plugs8. Turn up the music!

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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 19:24:40 -0000From: "icuneed12" <icuneed12x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Noisy

My noise occurs at the spindle pulley set. I have replaced both timkenbearings and race, 3 bronze bushings. There is a screw in the spindlepulley that will cause the pulley to lock onto the spindle. If I tightenthis screw then all of the noise is gone. I realize that this screwshould not be tight, so I loosened it and the noise is back. Also I havenoticed that if no belt pressure is applied and the pulley can slip, therewill be no noise. The pulleys that make the noise also cause a vibration.

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Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 13:06:25 -0700From: Don Rogers <Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com>Subject: Re: Re: Noisy

Take a look at the shafting. I just rebuilt the head on a 6" mdl 10100that was very noisy. My wife came running to the garage hollering "What'sthat noise" when I first started it up. I replaced the bushings in thedrive pulley, and in the back gear. On both, I used longer bushings than

standard, completely filling the ID of the pulley and back gear assembly.I turned a groove in the OD of the bushings to align with the oil port,drilled four holes at 90 degrees through this groove to the ID. I thenused Loctite to mount the bushings (some were kind of loose in thehousing). I then fit the bushings to their shaft. A little scraping wasneeded on the back gear after I reamed it to size. I then cut fourgrooves in the ID of the bushing front to back, passing over the holesI just drilled. This was to provide a path to fully lube the bushings.

The eccentric shaft for the back gear was loose in the housing, and theOD where the bushings fit was undersized also. This didn't look likewear, but manufacturing. I made a new eccentric shaft that fit both thehousing, and the bushings.

Next, I tackled the tumbler gears. The riveted studs for the gears wereloose. I tightened up the rivets, and re-assembled. I had removedeverything from the head but the spindle. It was smooth, and tight andI didn't want to disturb the settings for the Timken bearings. I cleanedall of the old grease and oil and the re-lubed everything using #90 gearlube. After putting it back together and adjusting the gear lash, it ranvery quietly. I think I'll have to rebuild the tumbler though andreplace the riveted shafts with screw-in shafts. I don't like the looksof the rivet job. Not enough meat left on the shaft to hold well. Thekey, in my mind, to making the lathe run quieter, and smoother, is toprevent the gears from climbing by removing all excess clearance. Youwant the gears to have minimum backlash also, but not be tight. Thepaper bag trick is a good one. You should feel just a little wink in thegears, not a lot, but some. Now to go cut some stuff.

Don Rogers

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Date: Tue, 10 Aug 2004 19:55:21 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Scaping Questions [atlas_craftsman group]

Ron Gerlach wrote:>>An update and another question: After reading all the posts, doing moreresearch and trying a few techniques I have come to my humble conclusions.I have settled on using a small ink roller to apply the dye. With the inkroller I can get extremely good coverage consistency across the entiresurface and the amount of dye needed is very little thus I can stick withthe Hi-Spot dye and use it full strength. The ink roller is also much lessof a mess. I was previously using my finger and a small piece of cloth.Now that was a mess. <<

Eww, yes I found a roller to be much better than other methods.

>>On to the question: Can you apply the dye directly to pink granitesurface plates without leaving any permanent stains? Does one have to

apply a sealer to the granite? <<

I suspect it will leave some stain. I can't imagine any sealer that wouldactually work without affecting the accuracy of the surface plate. I boughta surface plate cleaner in a spray bottle. It works OK on the Hi-Spot dye,but works VERY well on the Canode water-soluble dyes. Your ink roller willprobably get covered in lint and small scraping particles, and you won't beable to wash it off. I can wash the Canode off my rubber "speedball brayer"roller, dry it, and be back in business in less than 3 minutes. It takes meabout 10 minutes to clean my surface plate with the spray, let it dry, andthen wipe all the latex "worms" off it before re-applying the Canode. Ican't imagine what it would be like after a heavy scraping session if I'dused Hi-Spot.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 17:04:11 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: cross slide slop

flaskstoo wrote:>Is .040 slop or free play in the cross slide acceptable?.. to me it>feels excessive. Somewhere in the archives I read where a writer>mentioned a method of removing the slop in the cross slide by making>a simple shim..where does the shim go?

First, you have to separate bushing slop from nut slop. The handle assemblyhas two nuts, and a graduated dial on either side of the handle itself.What you do is loosed the outermost nut and then tighten the inner nutuntil the handle begins to bind. Back off the nut the smallest incrementpossible and then lock it in place with the outer nut. When done right,this will eliminate any axial play in the cross slide screws. You wantjust enough play so the graduated dial can stil be adjusted.

> I can live with the worn thread nut for awhile longer. There is no play> in the handle and lead screw so is it possible the nut is worn this> badly? Thanks, Donald

Ah, you've already adjusted the handle. Well, there's one more placewhere slop can occur. The nut has an extension right around the screw thatattaches it to the cross slide itself. (At least, I think mine did.) If

this is a loose fit in the cross slide it allows the nut to move a bitbefore the slide begins to move. If no free play there, then the nut isthe culprit. That is not a big surprise, it is one of the high wearpoints on any lathe. With modest turning skills, you can make anew nut. (Watch out, it is a LEFT hand thread - don't ask how that is sovividly remembered.)

.040" free play suggests there is only .010" of brass left in the nutthread. It is better to make a new nut before the thread is completely gone.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:32:04 EDTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: cross slide slop

thank u jon for the post .....went down to shop & x slide had .060 + slop......tightened the nut screw ( really didnt feel really loose or noticemovement ) ...now there is ..009 lash .........number one ...cant believei didnt check this , ..2 ...cant believe what felt like no movement took.050 out ......& just when i was going to go all the way to .100 & failure!!!!!!!..............BTW the first sq. thrd i cut was a compound nut for1912 prentice 13 in. ...when i got to the point of checking for final fit,it wudnt start on screw .....yeah ....L.H. .....so we ground a left handbit & went at it again....worst of all it was a '"labor trade off job" tnx

docn8as

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 13:20:38 -0500From: "John Richardson" <jprichx~xxup.net>Subject: Re: help...rack removal.

> I'm trying to remove the rack from a Craftsman 4-foot bed and it's still> attached after removing all of the screws. It must be pinned at each end> but I can't find a drawing or info on the rack assembly. Does anyone know> how to remove the rack or where the pins are.... i.e. are they part> of the bed or part of the rack? Thanks, Tj Bassi

I recently removed mine, and you will have to grind the heads off of therivets and remove the screws to do so. May take a little prying to removethe rack from the rivets.

Mine had rivets and screws, but maybe others might be different. The rivetswere located on each end of the rack, and they stayed in the bed when Ipried the rack off, which didn't come off easily.

John Richardson

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 15:40:30 ESTFrom: gto69ra4x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: help...rack removal.

Grind the heads off the rivets? My 10F's rack is held on with a few screwsand located with a couple pins. Just had to get a knife edge under the rackand carefully wiggle it off on both ends.

John

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Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2004 23:05:11 -0000From: "rumutt" <roostoyx~xxgci.net>Subject: Re: help...rack removal.

There are pins and they are part of the rack. I had to take a verythin flat screw driver and tap at the joint between the rack and thebed. Being gentle I was able to separate the rack from the bed. If Iremember right it had 4 pins.

Bruce

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Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:55:18 -0800From: Don Rogers <Donx~xxCampbell-Gemstones.com>Subject: Re: Digest Number 223

> I was wondering (since I'll probably need to have my new lathe bed> ground or surfaced) what does one do with the rack to carriage handwheel> gears clearances? After all, if you surface the bed ways the saddle> will ride "lower" on the lathe and that will change the mesh of the> teeth on the rack and carriage. Spacer the rack? Adjustment of the gear> carrier? Also, what about the leadscrew and half nuts? Same deal?

Consider that at most, you will have 0.005" or so taken off the top surfaceeven if the ways are really worn. What you want is a cleanup of thewear. You will not try to remove all of the dents and dings, but justenough to put the lathe back into top order. If you have to take off more

than that, you have a real problem. You goal in a resurface it to restorea working surface, not to make it cosmetically perfect.

In the way back when, when I was a machine repairman at a GM plant, werebuilt the bed on a huge Pratt & Whitney Keller. The P&W factory repscame in with their arsenal of tools. Part of that package was some powerscrapers. I had never seen them before. Boy, could you remove some metalwith them. The first thing we did was to scrape off the entire uppersurface. After spending a couple days of two shift work, we had all of thewear marks cut off. Then came another 12 days or so to put the surfaceback in order with some huge surface plates, around 30 ft long that weresetup just for the P&W. It would take an hour just to apply thebluing. The big overhead crane would lift it and drop it onto theways. Come-along's were rigged at each end and a trip each way was madeand then the plate was lifted off and the team of six guys went to workknocking off the high spots. When we were finished after the two weekproject, we had removed 0.007" from the ways. We made the adjustments tothe gibs and away we went, good for another 10 years or so.

I doubt that it will require removing anywhere that amount of metal fromyour 6x18, unless the grinder operator is sloppy in his setup.

The rack to gear clearance is set up with around 0.010 to 0.020 clearanceto start with. An additional couple thousandths is not going to benoticeable. The normal wear in the split nuts and the eccentric closerwill far exceed the amount of metal removed in the refinishing. The floatin the setup will take care of the slightly lower saddle.

Don

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 18:28:12 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Power crossfeed problem

Jerry G wrote:>I've been fixing up a 'new' Craftsman 12x36 101.07403 lathe. Been>takin it one step at a time.>Last (I hope), but not least, is the power crossfeed. This is the>first lathe I've owned with a power crossfeed. When engaged, it>appears to run fine (visually). However, if I hold the crossfeed>handle (with finger pressure), it stops, and the brass engagement knob>also stops turning. I haven't actually tried any facing cuts yet, but it>doesn't seem that light pressure should stop the crossfeed.

Does the main leadscrew stop turning? If so, then the emergency clutchis set too light, or the shear pin has sheared, depending on the particular

setup. There have been several versions of this over time to address theproblem of breaking major lathe parts in a crash.

If not, then the keyway in the big miter gear that wraps around theleadscrew has sheared off inside it. This is a bit harder to fix. I'veheard of several schemes involving a brass collar that is attached to thegear, or replaces the part of the gear that runs in the bushing (?) thatholds it. Or, you can get the gear from the Clausing Service Center.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 26 Nov 2004 16:56:25 -0800From: "Glenn" <sleykinx~xxcharter.net>Subject: Re: Power crossfeed problem

It sounds like the key in the gear that rides on the leadscrew isstripped. Good time to pull the apron and check out all the bits inthere and lube repair as necessary. The half nuts probably could usea good clean anyway :) You could probably broach a slot in the gearand glue a key in to repair the sheared key. I believe the key wascast into the gear.

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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 10:29:17 -0000From: "Jerry G" <airsporterx~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Re: Power crossfeed problem

Yes, the leadscrew continues to turn normally and I think the key on theleadscrew mitre gear is still there because I have to align the slot inthe leadscrew with it when I reinstall the leadscrew. But I'll checkagain. I guess it could also be a problem with the matching mitre gearon the apron. Fortunately it's an easy takedown. I'll go back insidetoday. Has to be one/both of the mitre gears.

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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 19:09:52 -0000From: "Jerry G" <airsporterx~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Power crossfeed - mystery solved

Went all over this whole situation again. Only this time I put aninspection mirror under the carriage so I could watch the mitre gearsunder power. When I applied pressure to the crossfeed handle the mitregear on the leadscrew stopped but the 'key' continued to rotate withthe leadscrew! So I completely disassembled it and found out I'mapparently the victim of a failed repair job.

Only the original geared portion, of what I believe was a one-pieceunit, remains. A steel bushing, with a key brazed inside, was push fitinside the original gearhead. Looks good, but even under a light loadthe keyed bushing turns inside the geared portion - rendering it useless.

At this point, my first thought is to do some careful drilling and crosspin the mitred gearhead to the steel bushing. Any other ideas would beappreciated. Never worked with Zamak before (I think that's what thesegears are made of). BTW, is the steel bushing okay or should it havebeen brass.

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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 11:21:09 -0800From: "Glenn" <sleykinx~xxcharter.net>Subject: Re: Power crossfeed - mystery solved

I think I would use a small setscrew and Loctite. Drill into the steelsleeve enough for the screw to have a good pocket to set in. Reasonbeing, if you use a pin and it works loose it could go into theleadscrew and cause some serious damage. Sounds like somebody triedengaging both drives at the same time .. or the cross drive at thewrong time.

Glenn

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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2004 15:39:47 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Power crossfeed problem

There is also a pin in a gear set above the miter gears. I think it ison the knob you pull to engage the feed. (I seem to remember the gearon the cross feed screw has a keyway.) So, that pin could be missing orsheared, or the key could be missing off the leadscrew.

>>BTW, is the steel bushing okay or should it have been brass.

At the speed this thing turns, I think it should be fine. The casting itturns is is either Zamak or cast iron. So, either should make a goodbearing. Make sure there is a way for oil to get to the bearing, though.You can't weld, braze or solder Zamak (at least unless you are super-experienced at repairing zinc castings.) So, pins and epoxies are aboutyour only choices. If there is sufficient meat in the bushing, thenpinning it sounds good. Are you thinking of drilling centered on wherethe gear fits on the bushing, parallel to the leadscrew? That might bethe strongest repair.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 07 Dec 2004 22:52:52 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 101 series headstock diagram? [atlas_craftsman group]

tjbassix~xxoptonline.net wrote:>Jon, Thanks for the tip. I have to remove the spindle this weekend>to replace the belt, is the procedure as simple as removing the two top>caps and it's out?

On the babbit bearing headstocks, that is all there is to it. There isa thrust bearing at the tail end of the spindle, and it may not slip backin without backing off the threaded collar at that end, if it was set withminimal clearance. other than that, just make sure you get the laminatedshims back in the same position when you reassemble. It is a 2-minutejob, unlike the procedure for the Timken bearing headstocks, where it is amajor procedure.

>I also assume from your message that there is no fore/aft adjustment>of the spindle as on Timken-equipped models.

On babbit bearing spindles, there is a thrust bearing adjustment that isa bit similar. But, in most cases, a little slack in the thrust bearingis no problem.

>In another post, you mentined swapping headstocks. On lathes such as>the South Bend 9's, you cannot *easily* swap headstocks/tailstocks>because of the centerline difference between finished castings. To prove>this, I visited a friend's machine shop where they have 3 SB model A's.>We took the tailstocks and moved them between the machines, noting a>difference of better than .100 on two. Is the Atlas/Craftsman constructed>in a manner that allows for better parts swapping?

Yes. All beds were ground on the same custom bed grinding machine. Mymeasurements of a few Atlas beds all showed up as being within .001" ofeach other. It is much easier to keep the rectangular ways of theAtlas design within VERY tight tolerance in production. All you needis a standard micrometer set.

I pulled the wrecked babbit headstock off my lathe (after making somedriving discs to be used with a gear puller for the Timken headstock.)After installing new bearings on the Timken headstock, I put it on themachine, and made a few measurements. I found the spindle was absolutelyparallel to the bed within the measurement capability of a tenth-readingdial test indicator. Wow - that was sure an improvement, as I alwaysfought with the (badly worn) babbit headstock to keep the spindle in line.

The babbit bearings were align-bored with a custom line boring tool on theactual lathe bed, after the headstock was mounted to the casting. As faras I can tell, once they switched to Timken bearings, they line-bored theheadstocks on some fixture, and then mounted them to the bed, withoutfurther alignment procedures on the bed. It sure worked fine on my machine.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 00:02:24 -0500From: Tom Bassi <tjbassix~xxoptonline.net>Subject: Re: 101 series headstock diagram?

Jon, thanks again for your comments. On the subject of swapping headstocks,how did the tailstock line up with your headstock? Do they all line up?Someone told me, and I dont know that its absolutely true, that at theSouth Bend factory they picked out a bed, put a headstock on it (anyheadstock), and used that headstock to bore the tailstock casting. Afterthat, all three parts were considered married.Only reason I keep bringing up the South Bend subject is I once had anightmare of a time with a machine that was cobbled together from severalothers...nothing lined up.

Putting my ducks in a row, if/when my babbet headstock needs replacement,I'd certainly try to find a Timken unit but want to avoid the disaster ofmismatched parts again. BTW...I had a 6" Timken machine but sold it.....never should have done that :(

Tom

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Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2004 12:20:06 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: 101 series headstock diagram?

Atlas lathes are not hand fitted, like SB and many others. There is nota hand-scraped part anywhere in it. They grind the bed to very closetolerance, and the only fitting that I know of was the use of the babbitalighn reaming machine.

> Only reason I keep bringing up the South Bend subject <SNIP>

Well, that is not how Atlas did things. Which is not to say that SBwas wrong to perform that work, but that it did make it difficult tointerchange major components. The Atlas parts are VERY interchangeable.I never had any trouble with it, and a number of people I've exchangedmessages with over the years have done the same, with no alignmentproblems.

And, yes, in their heyday, SB DID do a lot of hand scraping on theirlathes to bring everything into alignement. It almost certainlyproduced a finer and longer-lasting machine, at much increased cost.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 00:11:31 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Way wipers questions

Rex Burkheimer wrote: >Working on a 10-F TH54.>I'm getting down to the details as I finish this project. I need to cut>new way wipers and install. Hard to tell from the parts lists how they go>together. Looks like the rubber wiper goes against the casting and works>as a squeegee against the ways.

Yup, that's how the instructions say to install it. It seems backwards,like the squeegee action would prevent oil from reaching under thecasting.

>Next comes the felts, which act as an oil wick. I presume these also>should touch the ways. Are they exactly the same size as the rubber pieces?

Yes, I believe so. They both are cut a hair too big, so they arecompressed slightly onto the ways. Got a new set from Clausing ServiceCenter years ago.

>Lastly come the sheet-metal covers, attached with screws which are>missing. Does anyone know off-hand what thread those screws are?

I believe they may be 8-32. They are certainly a standard thread.

Jon

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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 16:12:33 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Power cross feed

> except the power cross feed

There should be a gear with an internal key that engages the groove thatis milled the length of the lead screw. It sounds as if someone in thepast has tried to engage both feeds at the same time which means thatsomething has to give way. Take the apron off again and see if thereis a gear that is on the lead screw (As I remember it is a bevel gearon my lathe). This gear turns all the time along with the lead screw andwhen you engage the power cross feed that set of gears is placed intoengagment to drive the cross feed leadscrew. The half nuts have nothingto do with this and both feeds should never be engaged at the same time.

If that gear is there but has had the key sheared off perhaps you couldreplace the key with a new one, or as some are molded in place keys you couldcut a keyway in the gear and add a new key securing the new key in place.(solder? epoxy? friction?)

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Date: Sat, 5 Feb 2005 17:22:35 -0500From: "Ronald Ruben" <Ronald_Rubenx~xxHotmail.com>Subject: RE: Power cross feed

I am afraid I just confirmed your diagnosis. I just came in from myshop to check e-mail after first removing the apron. I sat there andstudied it and soon realized there had to be some means (other than thehalf nuts) to drive the cross drive when engaged. I removed the mitregear (10F-82A) from the inside of a bushing where the lead screwpasses through and there is no engagement key to drive the crossdrive. <snip>

Thanks... Ron

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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:37:05 ESTFrom: anthrhodesx~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Power cross feed

> cut a keyway in the gear and add a new key securing the new key> in place. (solder? epoxy? friction?) >>

This is the way South Bend does it, a loose key. On the 9" and 10K Ibelieve it's held in position by a pin going through the gear into thekey. On the 10L and larger lathes the key is a little longer than thegear and is bent up on both. Both of these methods prevent the keyfrom sliding out of the gear when the leadscrew is inserted. In myopinion either of these solutions is far superior to the method usedby Atlas.

AnthonyBerkeley, Calif.

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Date: Sun, 6 Feb 2005 21:59:21 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Re: Power cross feed

> I posted some photos of the gear including one showing the end and> missing keyy... Suggestions welcomed!!!! I may have a potential> replacement but plan to fabricate a backup using the old mitre gear.

Sure looks like the key was molded in zamac, so that the steel shell isjust a bearing. In that case, I dunno. If you cut a groove in the zamacfor a key, you may just mess it up. Depends on how deep the zamac is,and if it is zamac on the inside as it looks in the photo.

I'd be tempted to make another miter gear complete with steel sleeve,and then attach a key to it. Don't laugh, I made two on a shaper torepair the stroke adjustment. The miter gears for that had a severedental problem.

JT

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NOTE TO FILE: Also see "Power crossfeed problem" starting 26 Nov 04 above.

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Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 18:25:36 -0000From: "rpm2290028" <richardmedwayx~xxsprintmail.com>Subject: Backlash problems 101.07403

Recently I've been chasing tenths, and discovered that my AC 07403 couldnot improve an out-of round workpiece, but merely followed the existingcontours. I realised that the excess backlash/wear in the cross-slidescrew was allowing the tool to float. I tightened the gibs, whichimproved the situation a little, but eventually i had to spring for anew screw from Clausing, which by the way are cheaper now than they werebefore. After carefully installing the new screw and brass nut, all waswell, but then the problem began to re-appear, and I could actually movethe toolpost slightly forwards and backwards by hand. I discovered thatthe culprit, as was mentioned a couple of weeks ago, was the 1/4-20 boltholding the brass nut to the slide. Simple, I thought, i'll just putsome Loctite on it and solve this problem. Come to find that the bolt,which is the official bolt for this task, according to the parts diagram,is only 1/4" long! With the 1/8" recess in the top, it means that allthat strain (think cutting-off) was being held by only two threads ofthis bolt, no wonder it would work loose. I've changed it out for adecent 1/2" hex bolt and washer, plus Loctite, and it has behavedimpeccably ever since. A small, cheap, easy improvement on the originaldesign, which will save hours of frustration. Good luck!

Richard in Los Angeles

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Date: Wed, 16 Feb 2005 01:58:53 -0000From: "carbure2003" <guycadx~xxnetzero.net>Subject: levelling and aligning my lathe craftsman 101.28990

Hello everybody. For the first time in five years, my lathe is set uplike I wanted. I spent a lot of time installing the lathe in a cornerin my basement. I have a Craftsman 101.28990 that I bought in 1990 andis still in very good condition.

In 1997 I had to get the bed re-ground after water damage caused by aburst pipe. At the same time, I got two holes drilled and tapped 1/4 NC20 in the bed at the left end of the headstock end, as I knew it wouldbe a nightmare to re-align. There was some very minor play on the leftend of the headstock end. The screws have been very useful to help melining up the headstock. I moved twice, and after every move I had tospend time re-aligning the lathe.

I levelled my lathe at first with a Starrett No 98 level. Once levelledat one end, I levelled the bed in the longitudinal way, and then at theother end. I found out that the bed was slightly warped, but the defectwas corrected in the levelling process. I finished the levelling with a

Chinese made master precision level (BusyBee Tools). The level is saidto be 0.0002 in. per 10 in. (about $65 Cdn on sale) None the less, itis extremely sensitive. I achieved a very good result by shimming thebed by 0.001 at a time.

The next fun part was the alignment. Tools used:- a dial indicator sensitive to 0.0001 in- a good micrometer sensitive to 0.0001 in- Jacobs headstock chuck to hold a piece of colled rolled steel- a piece of 5/8" dia colled rolled steel- scientific calculator

I chucked a 5/8" dia steel rod in the Jacobs headstock chuck. The Jacobsheadstock chuck extends a few inches away from the bearings. The piece ofsteel was out by at least 2.5 in, giving a total distance between theright headstock bearing and the end of the rod of about 7 inches.

I took a shaving cut on the piece of steel at 1000 rpm and a very finefeed, using a brand new carbide insert. I measured the difference indiameter and made angles calculations. Using the distance between theright headstock bearing and the end of the piece of steel, I calculatedthe displacement that I required to measure at the end of the steel rodwith the dial indicator.

I loosened the two allen cap screw that hold the headstock at the leftend of the bed, and moved the headstock sideways, using my two adjustmentset screws, checking the displacement at the end of my steel rod withthe dial gauge. I tightened the cap screws and re-started the cycle overagain. It took four cycles to get the headstock perfectly aligned. WhenI say perfectly aligned, it is that I cannot measure an error in diameteron the piece of steel machined over a length of more than 2 inches. Ittook about 2 hours all together to align the lathe. The 0.0001 inch dialgauge is essential in this process. (picked up on ebay for $18.00 US)

The lathe is performing extremely well. Last weekend, I was machiningspecial screws 2NC 56 that were 3/4 in. long. Even on such smalldiameter, I was able to machine a real cylinder, without having thestock held with a centre.

Moral of this story: the time spent in the levelling process and alignmentis never wasted. Aligning a lathe can be achieved with home shop tools.Next work to be done: minor adjustment on the interface between thetailstock castings in order to correct a minor tailstock problem.I hope this procedure can help people with alignment problems. Good luck.

Guy CadrinGatineau, QC Canada

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 00:54:50 -0000From: "sr71_bb2001" <Ronald_Rubenx~xxHotmail.com>

Subject: Silver Soldering a Mitre Gear Key in place (Newbie)

OK, I am making progress on getting my ATLAS 10x24 operating. I had amitre gear with a broken key that goes into the lead screw to power thecross drive. So I secured a replacement mitre with a keyway already cutin the metal (common problem apparently) and I milled, from keywaystock a new key (1 3/4"L x 1/8"W x 3/16"H which was my first millingattempt and is going great thanks to fellow forum member Rex Burkheimerand his patient assistance). Now HOW do I affix the key in the gear? Ihave read tons of material on soldering, can I use plumbing solder? If,as I suspect not, is silver solder OK?, and the big question is whatconstitutes silver solder? I have silver bearing solder? or should I buysilver solder rods? The mitre gear will be driven by the ATLAS leadscrew. I am unable thus far to find a product called silver solder otherthan silver solder rods. Is plumbers' solder ok??? Or metal, non-electrical solder? Silver bearing solder?? I have a mapp torch is thattoo hot? Am I making this overly complicated?? Questions, questions..answers are the tough part.. I appreciate any assistance that you canmuster up!!! I don't want to start searching for another replacementmitre gear (or worse)...

Ron

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 17:04:50 -0800From: John R.Sandhagen <jrsandhagenx~xxcsupomona.edu>Subject: Re: Silver Soldering a Mitre Gear Key in place (Newbie)

real silver solder works when the copper is glowing...and is almost asstrong as the copper itself. Brazing rod (more or less the same thing)may be more available. Not familiar with Miter gear but do not attempton zamak...cast or steel is fine. Silver bearing solder (with tin) isa poor substitute for lead tin solder but neither will hold cast/steelwell.

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 21:10:58 ESTFrom: GusVaBchx~xxAOL.comSubject: Re: Silver Soldering a Mitre Gear Key in place (Newbie)

Silver solder has grades I-VII. The higher the grade the higher the silvercontent and lower melting point with a lower strength. Grade VII meltsaround 700 degrees if memory serves me right (cob webs starting to grow,lol). I don't know about using a Mapp gas torch for melting the silversolder. The only way i know of is oxy-acetylene. I hope this helps.

Gus Lint HT1(SW) USN Retired

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 23:35:29 -0600From: "jerdal" <jerdalx~xxbrick.net>Subject: Re: Silver Soldering a Mitre Gear Key in place (Newbie)

I've been silver soldering for years with various propane torches andeven a small butane torch. They all get the work red hot, which is whatyou need to be able to do. The hotter the torch the less of teh part youneed to heat, but the more careful you have to be to not overheat.Oxy-acetylene may do the job, but you gotta be pretty careful not tomelt the work.

JT

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:48:28 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Silver Soldering a Mitre Gear Key in place (Newbie)

You MIGHT be able to use 60-40 solder, as its melting point is 360-370F.Much higher than that, and you guarantee melting the gear, which I'mpretty sure is Zamak (Zinc die cast alloy). Tin-Silver solder has a 430Fmelting point. Most Zinc-Aluminum alloys have a melting point around700F. If you are real good at soldering large items with a torch, youcould do this. But, temperature control is going to be VERY important.

> Am I making this overly complicated??

No. If you melt that gear, you are going to be VERY sorry, and it willhappen in an instant when it gets too hot. Wait a minute! You have agear WITH a keyway in it? You don't have to solder the key into theslot. All you have to do is make sure the key FOLLOWS the gear. Ifyou made the key longer than the gear, and had "ears" that stuck up, outof the leadscrew slot on each side of the gear, then the gear would pullthe key by the ears as it moved along the leadscrew. This sounds a lotsafer than trying to solder to Zamak.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 11:13:28 ESTFrom: catboat15x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Soldering a key in the cross slide gear

Don't use silver solder until you check the material of that gear. Atlasused a lot of zamac parts for gears and you are liable to melt the gearto a blob of copper, zinc, tin alloy. I would sure be tempted to cleanup everything well and try something like JB Weld (an epoxy with steelfiller) to hold things in place.

"silver solder" is a poor name for what is really "Silver brazing alloy".If you can melt it with a soldering iron it ain't the silver solder wetalk about. By memory I think the dividing line is 800 deg F betweensolder and brazing alloys. A bit of history, when people got concernedabout their copper water lines, laws were passed about using leadbearing solders such as the lead/tin alloys plumbers, electricians etcused. So solder makers started using other alloys and some contained asmall amount of silver and as a marketing ploy started calling "Silver

solder" or "Silver bearing solder". (I don't know if what the plumbersuse now contains cadmium, which is more toxic than lead and for manyyears has been forbidden on food handling equipment.)

On your problem I think the best way would be to contact Clausing bytelephone and see if you can buy a new gear with the key already in thegear. I think breaking this gear is fairly common. If anyone has triedto engage both the power cross feed at the same time the half nuts areengaged, something is going to break (or turn a really steep taper).

John Meacham in the high desert of California

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Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 10:42:16 -0800From: Frank Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Keyways and gears

A few months back I had to put a new key in. Using commercial key stock,a new key was made. I used JBWeld to put the key in place. The surfaceof the key was prepared by light sanding and very, very light punching.The slot was also lightly punched for a light press fit. Cover the partswith JBWeld; press together; trim off the excess after an hour or two.Use a razor, scriber, dental pick and file to get off all unwanted JBWeld.

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Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2005 22:57:46 -0000From: "kwells_nz" <kenneth.wellsx~xxequinox.co.nz>Subject: half-nut lever [atlas_craftsman]

I've just become the proud owner of an Atlas Clausing 10100 6" lathe,handed down to me from my wife's late grandfather. It appears in prettygood condition, with just the expected grime and chips from good use.There is some surface rust on the ways and on one side of each of thechucks, but I'm sure this will come off with some kerosene and finesteel wool/scotchbrite. Like (I'm sure) most of the people in this group,my first point of order is to strip and clean the lathe - giving it anice coat of epoxy paint at the same time.

I've started by disassembling the carriage and I'm stuck at a point. Thehalf-nut engagement lever seems to be peened onto the square head of theshaft. Being fairly new to metalwork (I've owned a mill-drill for about ayear), I'm not sure of the correct procedure to remove this. Can anyonepoint me in the right direction? I figure I can always drill and tap thesquare shaft afterwards if needed to hold the lever on (instead of peeningit back on).

Regards,Kenneth WellsWellington, New Zealand

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:28:18 -0000From: "azbruno" <azbrunox~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: 12x36 help

"dewoodbutcher" wrote:> I seem to have a foul-up. I broke (re-broke dpo fix) the gear case on> the apron on my Atlas 12x36. I called Clausing, and lo and behold they> still have them. Same part number as the old manual I have! I paid> dearly to have a new one ($80+ dollars), but it doesn't really fit.> There are 2 holes for a roll pin and three slot/ holes for the> screws.The trouble is that (1) the holes for the roll pins don't line> up..(2) using the top hole, the screws can be used but apron binds on> rack, using the bottom holes no screw fits...(3) put on without any> roll pins and the gear binds when I tighten down the apron. After 3 hrs> fiddling, I have made it usable by slightly enlarging the holes,> eliminating the roll pins, and adding a washer spacer between the apron> and the saddle. It all seems to work but the driven cross feed is a> little loose (from the washers). Also the cross feed lever detent ball> has no spring, but seems to work ok. Am I headed for problems? Did I> Joey this thing up?

I bought a 12x36 last month and it also had a broken gear case. Theprevious owner had bought the replacement part from Clausing but neverinstalled it. When I got the lathe, the carriage was apart and the gearcase removed. I've been slowly cleaning up the lathe, just got areplacement gear and was about to put it together.

So after reading this, I went to check the new part against the old one(in three pieces). Sure enough, the two holes for the pins do not lineup against the old one; haven't tried it on the carriage yet.

I'm thinking I could fill the misplaced hole with JB Weld and redrill.I'd be interested to hear more about how you deal with it.

-Bruno

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 12:48:24 -0500From: "earlharrell" <earlharrellx~xxatlanticbb.net>Subject: Re: Re: 12x36 help

Here is some info you might find useful on the apron of your atlas lathe.Because the gear case on the apron was a "stamped" part, the holes wern'texactly in the same place every time. A procedure called "matchdrilling"was used on every apron assembly. The gear case is clamped into place andused as a "template" to drill the holes into the apron, creating a perfectmatch for the alignment of the holes from the gearcase and the apron.Thus, the term "matchdrilling". The fix would be to plug the holes on the

apron, clamp the gearcase to the apron, keeping alignment in mind, andthen redrill the holes. A drillpress was originally used to complete thistask many years ago. I hope you find this info useful.

Skydoc_17

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Date: Sat, 26 Mar 2005 14:35:58 -0800From: DG <dawgenx~xxshaw.ca>Subject: Re: Re: 12x36 help

dewoodbutcher wrote:> As far as the roll pin holes, I have not yet gotten there yet. I like> the idea of JB Weld and redrill the case, or use some 1/8" welding rod> peened into the hole and redrill. My problem, however may be that the> top hole in the apron is drilled crooked.> Hope someone can give us some clues. Little

A better way to go I think is to tap these holes with a bottoming tapand put a screw in there. I might go as far as to put lock-tite on thethreads and then keep tightening the screw till the head breaks rightoff. Cut the remaining screw off flush and you're ready to redrill.Try it, it works great.

Damien

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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 21:52:58 -0800From: William Abernathy <williamx~xxinch.com>Subject: Backed-out nut on apron

Recently I noticed a threaded fastener sticking out the front of my 10"Atlas's apron. On closer examination, I've determined it to be the shaftfor a bevel gear in the cross-feed drive (or at least something that'smighty coaxial to it) with a 3/8 x 16 NC thread. There does not appearto be enough thread to accommodate a standard nut (maybe three threadwidths' worth) and my efforts to affix a nut to it have proven futile,as the shaft turns freely before the fastener gets any "bite." With myfinger lodged behind the apron, I can feel the shaft rotating freely asI tighten the nut.

Questions: Does this shaft/screw take a standard fastener?Does it require a lock ("spring" or "split") washer or any other spacer?Is there any way of securing this without disassembling the apron?Is it safe to operate the lathe without this shaft secured? I only askthis last because I suspect I may well have operated the lathe for awhile before noticing the "missing" fastener, and hey, who knows, maybeit's meant to float (he said, thinking wishfully).

Thanks,William A

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Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 11:01:22 -0500From: <moonguarx~xxadelphia.net>Subject: Re: Backed-out nut on apron

William, this may be the stud that holds the mitre gear to the apron. Thispart has been redesigned by Clausing (formerly Atlas). The redesign has abushing inside the gear. This is what happened to me when I attempted toput a nut on the mitre gear stud/bolt on my 10F. The mitre gear could notrotate freely on the stud/bolt and as a result, the lead screw could notturn. This ended up damaging the gears in the reversing gear box.

I guess at sometime in the past, Atlas lathe users discovered that overtime, the mitre gear would start sticking to the stud/bolt and hangingup the lead screw. At the time there was no redesign on the mitre gear sothe easy solution was to just remove the nut from the stud/gear and justlet the stud spin with the mitre gear. I would advise you not to put a nuton the stud/gear. Buy the redesigned part from Clausing. The new gear ismade of steel instead of Zamak which is a plus.

Kent

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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 21:17:06 -0000From: "azbruno" <azbrunox~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Adjusting cross slide gibs [atlas618lathe group]

I just adjusted the cross slide gibs on my 101.21400 and wanted to sharethe technique I used.

First, remove the gear guard and cross slide nut. This allows the crossslide to be manually slid forward and back, and eliminates the nut as afactor in the adjustment. Use a small screw driver for the gib screws andopen end wrench for the lock nuts. It's also a good time to clean out thecavity around the cross slide screw, remove any other swarf and slap someway oil on the dovetail ways, so do that first.

Back off all the gibs. I use the middle gib for a cross slide lock (with athumb screw) so that was left loose. Adjust the front and back gibs whiletesting to eliminate any lateral movement at either end and assure that itwill slide along the dovetail comfortably. When close on an adjustment, useboth the screwdriver and wrench simultaneously. Get the screw close andthen tighten down the nut. When you do that, the screw will tighten up abit, so this needs to be repeated until it's OK. It's easy to see if youhold the screwdriver in the screw while tightening the nut. If it's too

tight, loosen the nut and then loosen the screw in the nut. If too loose,loosen the nut and turn the screw tighter in the nut, then lock the nuttight. Repeat and test on each adjustment.

When it feels just right, then put the cross slide nut and gear cover backon. Be sure to tighten the screw down as that keeps the nut from wiggling.First time I did this really improved the quality of the cuts. I now checkit regularly.

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Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:58:21 -0400From: bepurr <thebeepsx~xxsympatico.ca>Subject: Re: Adjusting cross slide gibs

Bruno, reading your adjusting method brings to mind a tool I used when Iwas doing field service work. An adaptation of this could be easily madeand would make the adjusting procedure easier. I think I will make one.

A short piece of rod with a hole drilled lengthwise that is a nice slidingfit of the small screwdriver. The end if the rod is filed square to fitsnugly in a hex socket that fits the nut. A knurled collar is fastened tothe other end of the rod to provide a grip when tightening the nut.

In use, the screwdriver is slipped through the tube and the socket slippedonto the nut. The screwdriver stays slipped in the tube while manipulatingthe nut by rotating the knurled collar. Clear enough, I hope.

Bryan P. (bepurr)

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Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 19:38:10 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Bearing dust cover removal ... [atlas_craftsman]

drifter1951 wrote:>Any suggestions on how to remove the rear bearing (Timkin) dust cover>on an Atlas 10F? I'm thinking maybe using a gear puller with the>fingers reversed ... any other suggestions?

Umm, how about a pocket knife? These are just thin sheet metal, pressedin just enough to not fall out. At least, that's all they are on laterlathes, and can easily be teased out of the casting.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 06:30:14 -0000From: "Robert Weersing" <bobohiox~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Re: Bearing dust cover removal ...

Use a wooden dowel and gently tap it out with a hammer.

Bob

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 14:48:28 -0500From: xlch58x~xxswbell.netSubject: Re: Re: Atlas Quadrent Gear Bracket. [atlas_craftsman]

>--- In x~xxyahoogroups.com, "Bob Moorman" wrote:>>I broke the Quadrent bracket on my TH-54 yesterday. It is no longer>>available from Clausing. It is sometimes called a butterfly bracket.>>It is the bracket located on the left side of the lathe, that allows>>the changing of the gear in or out that drives the Quick Change Gear>>box. It has a handle & bolt that runs through it that allows loosing>>and readjusting the gear. There are three different part numbers, and>>I need the bracket with the 3/4" shaft hole. If anyone has one and>>will part with it, please let me know. Until then, I'm out of>>playthings in the shop. Thank you for any help you may provide.>>God Bless, Bob Moorman An Old Pipe Maker From Texas

jdmichael2001 wrote:>I had mine break too (with a deadline looming as usually happens). A>local welder repaired it for me just fine. He was a little skeptical>at first, because he said some cast iron welds well and some doesn't,>but this worked just fine for him (and me). Jan M

I have welded up busted parts on an Atlas Power Hacksaw before. I justarc welded it with special rod for cast iron. I veed it out along thecracks leaving only enough materials at base of v ( from both sides) forregistration of the part. I then drilled a section of channel so thatthe part could be bolted down firmly, but raised above the channel withwashers. I stuck the whole thing in the forge and heated to lowred/orange color, then laid a bead on it. After the bead was on it Itapped it with my welding tomahawk as the color of the weld area droppedto match the rest of the part. Put it back in the forge and heated thewhole thing again, repeating until it was completely filled in. When Iwas done I heated in forge one last time and then buried it in a drum ofashes I keep around for this sort of thing. Pulled it out of the ashesthe next morning and ground it smooth. A little paint and it is as goodas new. Brazing is also an option, but requires the same localpreheating and slow cool down.

Charles

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 20:46:19 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Re: Atlas Quadrent Gear Bracket.

You can also braze it with a propane torch. Because it is made of thin

sections, you can actually braze it with very little risk of it breakingjust beside the joint, because the stresses that build up in longrepairs won't be present.

Jon

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 22:58:20 EDTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Atlas Quadrent Gear Bracket.

braze it. braze is as strong as cast iron, near foolproof...welding istougher on the substrate & iffy, depending on welder experience & equip

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 01:20:27 EDTFrom: n8as1x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: Atlas Quadrent Gear Bracket.

In a message dated 9/14/2005, xlch58x~xxswbell.net writes:> Weld or braze, given the size of the part, you are best off heating it> all up to at least 400-500 degrees, and letting it cool in ashes...> Charles

agreed ...but u have a much better chance w/ braze if the above is NOTdone , or carelessly so...i have brazed a fair amt of cast iron w/outpre heat ,but burying part in sand to cool..no failures that i know of...c/shaft hanger on wards/logan broke in 5 pieces (lathe tipped) ..uponexam , the breaks had been previously welded( rather sorrily) cast ironjoints & adjacent metal were plainly burnt . to the point that iscrapped it & milled/drilled/fit a logan 200 c/shaft hanger ...i have nodoubt that a COMPETANT welder w/ proper rod ,peening & pre /post heatingplus cooling in ashes can weld decent cast iron..,when u can FIND one .&i am not one !!...point is brazing is more forgiving ...using my lincoln200 amp ac buzzbox, i am not overly proud of the appearance of my weldson steel.....they hold , but doing one-off jobs in a hurry to finishplowing /discing , i reckon i have one years experience 40 timesrather than 40 years exp.....seem to be relearning each time ....

best wishesdocn8as

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 13:55:54 EDTFrom: gto69ra4x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Another new 10F and a few questions

9/14/2005, Lucas.Thompsonx~xxwatchguard.com writes:>>Hello group! Another newbie hoping to tap a little of all the greatknowledge here. I just got a 10F TH42 s/n 037488 with a bunch oftooling, legs, iron chip tray, manual, etc and at Atlas/Clausing 12"

4800(?). Currently working on the lighter 10F, going to start the 4800later. My goal is to get the 10F working well enough for use andlearning. <<

You'll be happy when you go to the 4800. The Atlas is a hobbyist'slathe, the Clausing is a real machine tool.

>>Removing the old caked dirty gummy oil on the ways and screws and stuffis coming along pretty well using kerosene, a small brass brush and 20wtnon detergent oil. I'm trying to avoid disassembly as much as possiblebut have the machine be servicable. Worried about these things though: <<

Good, but I'd skip the oil and clean with straight kero. I'd also nottry to avoid dissasembly. Nothing's going to jump out and eat you, andthese things have to be torn down regularly for cleaning. It'simportant you really to get the works spotless.

>> 1- The spindle is "sticky" feeling like with gummed up oil.Penetrating oil and 10wt oil have helped a little. I hesitate todisassemble the whole thing. <<

Just bite the bullet and take it apart. You can clean the bearings andinspect things while you're in there. Also clean out the backgearbearings and replace the belt while you're in there. This is a regularservice procedure. Make sure you can do it so you're not stuck in anemergency.

>>2- The little pinion gear that runs on the rack to move the saddleback and forth seems very loose and worn. Not sure if this is aproblem or not. The rack looks pretty good. <<

It's not a precision feed. Lots of slop is normal. If it feels "flexy",you're gearbox casing might be cracked.

>>3- The tailstock spindle(?) does not move in and out freely like it'sbinding in the main body casting in some places even after thoroughcleaning . The tailstock screw seems fine, just the in-out movement onthe spindle part. Thanks in advance. Lucas in Seattle <<

Take it out and have a look-see. One the screw pushes it most of the wayout, the quill just pulls out. The little locating screw that goes intothe quill keyway might be binding.

John

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Date: Wed, 14 Sep 2005 18:16:49 -0000From: "Bob Moorman" <k5vmxx~xxcebridge.net>Subject: Re: Another new 10F and a few questions

Lucas, get a can of CRC Brakleen at most any auto parts house. Itwill clean all the oil and grease from your lathe. It will leave NOoil film, so be sure to apply a thin coating of oil, or you willhave rust. The CRC is a great thing to have in the shop. <snip>

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Date: Thu, 15 Sep 2005 00:51:02 -0700From: "Bob May" <bobmayx~xxnethere.com>Subject: Re: Another new 10F and a few questions

For the spindle, the best is to pull the spindle and clean out all ofthe old lubricnt with good cleaners but you can run the stuff throughthe assembled spindle and eventually get most of it.

The tailstock does need to be disassembled (not hard as there is onlythe screw on the backside to remove and then screw the thing apart. Youmay find swarf in there or sposs where the metal has been upset on theram that need to be filed down or upset back to where the metal should be.

Bob Mayhttp://nav.to/bobmay http://bobmay.astronomy.net

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Date: Fri, 7 Oct 2005 09:48:33 -0700From: Frank Perdicaro <frankx~xxdsea.com>Subject: Re: Re: Lathe bed as motorcycle jig

> I have a 54 inch Atlas but the end 6 inches of the bed> (tailstock side) have been damaged.

My spare Atlas lathe bed is from my 48" 10F. It is worn quite a bitnear where the headstock would mount. You do not need a straight edgeor to feel it with your fingernail -- you can see it with bare eyes.I have not measured it.

Due to a UPS shipping accident I had access to a free 54" bed fromSobel. Perhaps "bed kit" is a better description. I swapped out the48 and put in a 54 because the 54 was in good shape, except the bed wasactually broken into three pieces. The area near the tailstock end thatholds the lead screw bracket was broken away. The big chunk was aboutthe size of a packet of cigs. So I clamped the pieces up in my millingmachine and welded the bed back together with my 120 volt MIG welder!The welding was not quite perfect, in fact I made sure the repair stuckup a bit and pointed in a bit. With the bed being bolted to the tableof my mill, it was easy to use a fly cutter to get the top of the lathebed pretty darn flat. Then I switched to a milling cutter to be surethe inside surface that locates the tailstock was good.

So tailstock-area bed repair for 54" Atlas lathes is something I haveexperience with. Perhaps you should try it, as I am sure it can be done.

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Date: Sat, 8 Oct 2005 21:30:16 -0700 (PDT)From: James Sterner <jimmy163333x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Gib strip for my Atlas 10F - Where to get one?

Garrett Fell wrote:>>Hi all....

>>I am looking for a gib strip for the compound on my 10F. The one>>that I have now was horribly mis-treated by the previous owner. It>>was bent on one end by over-tightening the adjustment screw without>>the dovetail supporting it>>I've tried to straighten it by hammering it on a piece of flat->>stock, then running it back and forth on a piece of sandpaper stuck>>to a sheet of glass. I've taken it pretty easy as far as the sanding>>goes because I don't want to distort it.>>It seems as if it's still a bit bent because things get really tight>>when I use the compound, and I can't get it adjusted right.

Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com> wrote:> The fixed part of the slide may be worn unevenly. The bent gib couldeasily do that. The way to measure it is to use two dowel pins that areknown to be straight and round. They should be about the same diameteras the dovetail part is high. You set them in the vee of the dovetailand read the distance across the two dowels with a good micrometer.(A dial or electronic caliper will work, but it isn't as accurate.) Youtake readings like this at both ends of the compound lower slide part.The readings should be the same, but I'll bet yours will not be thesame. <

>>Any ideas on how to make this thing parallel again? Anyone know>>where I can buy one that will fit? I've looked at stuff on ebay,>>but the prices there seem WAY out of line, and I can't tell if I'd>>be getting the gib anyway...

> If the compound lower part is worn unevenly, it has to be scraped,ground or whatever you can do to restore it to parallel. Once you knowthe lower part is good, then .... If the gib is not touching all alongits length (no surprise, since it was bent) you can try applying amarking dye like DyKem Hi-Spot to the lower dovetail, and then insertthe gib in the upper slide with the screws out enough to hold it inplace, and wipe the two together while holding light pressure againstthe gib side. This should leave a print in blue dye where the gib isactually touching the lower slide. File, scrape, lap or whatever thehigh spots and try again. Improving the contact area between the giband the dovetail should help. Jon <

My Shaper has steel gibs, (I checked with a magnet) I'm not too sureabout the lathe though. You can make a new gib on a Shaper out of steelor brass. Held in a vice the long way a Shaper would have no troubleputting the necessary angles on the new gib. If the compound dove tailis out of whack, you can dial in the solid contact side on a millingmachine table with a proper dove tail cutter. Then take only enough ofa cut to get full contact on the dove tail with the cutter (cut on thegib side of the dove tail only). If you remove a lot of metal you canmake the new gib a little fatter. To hand scrape to a nice fit one sideis first brought to dead straight or flat first, with high spot blueand a good straight edge designed for that or a surface plate. Then themating side is scraped to fit the straightened out side. I hope thishelps some.

Jim

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 12:11:04 -0700From: "Louis Balleweg" <LouBallewegx~xxearthlink.net>Subject: Re: Headstock cover removal [atlas618lathe]

> I want to remove the headstock cover on my 618 but the two pins> in the rear that hold the cover on cannot be moved. Any help> on this would be appreciated. wendell

They are a sort of tapered pin that can be driven out with a drift-pinor any rod that is smaller than the hole. They should be driven fromthe inside out.

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 23:13:57 -0000From: "llednew1938" <llednew1938x~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Headstock cover removal

Thanks Lou a little more persuasion and they came out.

wendell

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Date: Wed, 12 Oct 2005 15:10:13 -0700From: "keith green" <ksggx~xxtelus.net>Subject: Re: Headstock cover removal

If they can't be gotten at from the back, tap the top and pull them witha slide hammer. I've also made a puller from an adequately-sized nut.You drill a hole through one of the 6 faces of the nut that is aclearance fit for the size of screw you tapped into the pin. Cut the nutin half so you have two u-shaped sections. Stand the u-shape over thepin with a leg on each side, thread in your puller-bolt and tighten untilit pulls the pin. This doesn't always work when the pin is very tight(the nut-half will collapse and flatten out).

Keith

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Date: Sat, 05 Nov 2005 21:23:54 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Aw Crap....did I break my tailstock?

joegourlay wrote:>I have a live center in my tailstock. I did as the manual instructed>and turned the wheel counterclockwise to bottom it out. It should>have, but did not, eject the center.

This is a common problem. Many live centers are too short for theend of the leadscrew to eject them. Many have a screw that plugs thegrease port on the back. You can use a longer screw with a spacer tomake the center long enough to eject properly.

>Instead, the ram just rotates in the casting. Turning the wheel

>clockwise will no longer extend the ram. What do I do?

When you turn the handle, does the tailstock ram also rotate?If so, if you can get something to grip it with and keep it fromrotating, it will come back out.

There should be a small screw just below the ram that rides thekeyway in the ram. If the ram has retracted past that screw, thenit no longer keys the ram. If the screw has broken off, you may needto file the threads off 1/8" or so of a similar screw to make a newkeying screw. That's a pretty common repair on the Atlas, too.

Once you get the ram moving again, you can just wind it all theway out, and use a rod down the middle to tap the center loose.

Jon

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Date: Sun, 06 Nov 2005 16:42:04 -0000From: "joegourlay" <jgourlayx~xxmindspring.com>Subject: Re: Aw Crap....did I break my tailstock?

Jon, you were right on the money! I'm back up, thanks!

I ended disassembling the whole take stock last night, cleaning,degreasing, and re-oiling everything. Fun.

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Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 13:45:27 -0500From: bepurr <thebeepsx~xxsympatico.ca>Subject: Re: Aw Crap...did I break my tailstock

The problem was caused by the fallen-out setscrew in the tailstockcasting. My parts lists shows this is a 'dog-point' setscrew (dog-point means there are no threads near the end).

The use of a setscrew for this purpose is to my mind a design flaw.The setscrew engages the keyway in in the tailstock ram. There isprecious little bearing surface between the setscrew and the keyway.I was putting a rather heavy tortional load on this when doing someheavy duty end drilling which I found was not doing the keyway any good.

My solution was to find a rivet which was a nice fit in the setscrewhole and file the head into an oblong shape, the sides of which to be anice fit in the keyway. Removing the ram and fitting the rivet into thesetscrew hole from the inside of the tailstock casting and reinstallingthe ram with the rivet head in the keyway gives a much, much largerbearing surface. Also the rivet does not fall out and get lost. A neatand easy solution which Atlas should have thought of.

Bryan P. (bepurr)My aim in life is to be the kind of person my Atlas wants me to be.

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Date: Sun, 04 Dec 2005 13:20:30 -0000From: "nevillec222" <nevillec222x~xxyahoo.ca>Subject: Re: Drive gears for Atlas Horizontal Mill, MFC [atlas_craftsman]

In atlas_craftsman, "Jerald Ware" <cware48420x~xxy...> wrote:> I recently bought a Hor, MFC and I need both gears for the table feed> assembly, #M6-101-64. The teeth are in bad shape.> What DP and cutter(S) should I be looking for? I know I can buy those> gears from Clausing at $39 each but I'd rather cut them, unless> someone is offering them for a lot less.> What material should they be cut from?> Is there a reason why the mill uses two gears instead of one thick> one? I imagine improper engagement to be the cause of the damage?> Being unfamiliar with these bench top machines; I also bought an Atlas> shaper, what should I be careful to not do...other than screw them> up!-Thanks, Jerald

The gear cutter U require is a #2 (55 to 134 teeth) 14.5 pressureangle and a DP of 24. I would suggest the cutter have a bore size of7/8" or 1" if U intend to use your MFC mill. The extra gear on theMFC is a spare!! Material for the gear can be Phosphor Bronze (Knownas "roto-cast"), Delrin, Brass, or a basic Low carbon steel suchas SAE1020. Good luck !!

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Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 03:01:33 -0000From: "kc5ezc" <kc5ezcx~xxcableone.net>Subject: Re: Drive gears for Atlas Horizontal Mill, MFC

Jerald: I think there are two gears side by side because it takesthe width of two gears to cover the various feeds in the 'Change-O-Matic' gear box. Two, because I believe a single gear is used on anexsisting Atlas lathe. Can't remember which model. Not sure of thematerial but probably ZAMAK. Hope that helps.

John Burchett in Byng OK

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Date: Mon, 05 Dec 2005 19:06:30 -0000From: "nevillec222" <nevillec222x~xxyahoo.ca>Subject: Re: Drive gears for Atlas Horizontal Mill, MFC

Correction to my last message, with regard to the use of two 64 gearon the MFC mill, two gears are needed to safely engage the otherchange gears of the change-0-matic system, although only one is inengagement at a time. Damage was probably done when the mill was notstopped to change the feed rate. The metal used by Atlas is called"Zamac" and is quite fragile especially when used for gears, and iseasily damaged.

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Date: Mon, 5 Dec 2005 18:26:16 -0800From: Michael Fagan <woodworker88x~xxgmail.com>

Subject: Re: 4 step countershaft pulley question [atlas_craftsman]

On 12/5/05, amsvette <adamandjenx~xxmsn.com> wrote:> Hey, has anyone ever removed the 4 step pulley on the countershaft> assembly on a 12" Craftsman lathe? The pulley on my lathe is chipped,> so I bought another countershaft assembly for the pulley. I have the> set screw out, but it will not budge. I don't feel another set screw> in the hole, so I assume it's just stuck. I hate to bring out the> inforcer hammer, but I don't have a press to try that route. Any> suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks, Adam

Try Liquid Wrench, squirted liberally on the shaft and in the setscrewhole. I haven't removed the countershaft pulley on my 12" Craftsmanyet, but I did have to remove an almost identical pulley on a verticaldrill press. It turned out to be more or less a press fit, but it wason the motor shaft and I didn't want to ruin anything. Took threedays to work the bugger off the shaft. Only 5 minutes to hammer itback on, though.

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Date: Mon, 09 Jan 2006 21:47:14 -0000From: "gino_kerekes" <gino_kerekesx~xxyahoo.co.uk>Subject: Re: Atlas 10-F Backgear

>> I have recently aquired an Atlas 10-F lathe which appears to be in>> fair condition. I noticed when engaging the 'back gear', the gears>> almost immediately get thrown out of mesh, almost as if I'm missing>> some sort of friction device keeping them in postion. Any ideas much>> appreciated, Gino.

> There are wavy spring washers on either end of the shaft. You can> tighten them by moving the metal collars (secured with setscrews)> closer to the mounting brackets. GTO(John)

Thanks John, that would make sense to me. I'm currently missing thecollar and the wavy washers, have to make a collar I guess and sourcethe washers.

Gino

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Date: Tue, 10 Jan 2006 08:35:26 -0500 (GMT-05:00)From: Steve <skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.com>Subject: Re: Digest Number 2589But actual thread subject is Re: Atlas 10-F Backgear [atlas_craftsman]

Gino, I asked this same question about two weeks ago, and it was thecollar, wavy washer thing. Loosened the setscrews, moved the collarsout against the washers and tightened the setscrews. No more problem.Your later post indicates that you might not have them, so you will needto buy or make them. The collars would be easy to make, but you willprobably have to buy the springs. Do not use something like a splitwasher. The washer is a thin spring steel washer that is bent (on my12x36 it's part number 10-167 and the collar is 10-253).

Steve

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Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 21:50:14 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Adjusting carriage

Steve wrote:> I have a 1952 12x36 101.27440, and I was looking at the carriage totighten everything up. I can see all the adjustment screws for the gibson the rear of the carriage, and on the cross slide and compound. Underthe front and rear of the carriage are plates that hold the carriagedown. There does not appear to be an adjustment. Are these adjustable,and if so, how? <

There are shims under the plates. They are laminated, so you peel offlayers as needed. Usually, the thinnest lamination is .004", so I useone or two layers of home aluminum foil to make finer adjustments. Thehome foil is about .0015" thick. Be careful when working with these shims,as they will wrinkle up like accordion pleats if they get caught in thescrew threads.

> Also, what would be the best way to measure for play to see if I evenneed to do anything to adjust it? <

If you have one, a dial indicator held by a magnetic stand on the bedway is very good for this type of measurement. Just measure how much youcan lift up on the carriage.

Jon

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Date: Fri, 13 Jan 2006 22:55:41 ESTFrom: gto69ra4x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Adjusting carriage

I just would like to mention here that even from the factory they hadquite a bit of vertical movement. My Atlas was almost never used andit's there. Not terribly critical, since cutting forces should plant itdown on the bed.

GTO(John)

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Date: Sat, 14 Jan 2006 16:44:45 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Adjusting carriage

When applying very hard infeed force, as when using a cutoff tool, theforce of the cross slide can lift the back of the carriage off the bed.This sets up the perfect condition for a bind-up. I shimmed mine so thatit couldn't lift more than about one thousandth of an inch.

Jon

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Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2006 19:37:40 ESTFrom: gto69ra4x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Carriage/ bed wiper material? [atlas_craftsman]

1/17/2006, drifter1951x~xxyahoo.com writes:>What's a good material to use to replace the felt in the carriage/bed>wipers? Mine are so soaked with old oil they are stiff and brittle...

Also felt, surprisingly enough. You can get it in different weights andthicknesses from industrial suppliers. Use only pure wool felt, not thesynthetic stuff sold in craft stores.

Check out a piano repair shop and ask about scrap cuttings they have. Ihaven't done this, but a guy I talked to ended up with a bag so big hecould barely fit it in the car.

GTO(John)

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Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 11:29:31 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Counter shaft oiling , [atlas_craftsman]

Michael Fagan wrote:>The oil cups on the countershaft are hidden behind the pulley, in the>bearing pillow block itself. You need an oiler with a long, preferably>flexible shaft. I had to drizzle mine in from above the pulley.

My 12" Craftsman had big holes in the large pulley. I could reach inwith the standard spout pump oiler and flip the cap on the oil cupand put the oil in there. It took a little skill to do it easily, butI didn't have to make anything or disassemble the covers.

Jon

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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 17:34:08 -0800From: "Catdesign" <catdesignx~xxintergate.com>Subject: Help Removing Woodruff Key

I am trying to remove the rear woodruff key on the spindle (number 9 onthe parts list) of my Atlas 10F. I grabbed it with pliers but no good,soaked it in cleaner, no results tried to pry it out no luck. Anysuggestions? Wish I had a can of liquid nitrogen.

ChrisSacramento, Ca

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Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2006 21:51:08 -0800

From: Michael Fagan <woodworker88x~xxgmail.com>Subject: Re: Help Removing Woodruff Key

Also, what kind of pliers are you using? There is a kind of pliers knownas running jaw or flat jaw pliers specifically designed for gripping flatstock. The difference is that the jaws move parallel to each other togrip along their whole length and not just at the tips. The jaws are alsowider than normal. I use these frequently for pulling out chunks ofkeystock. Regular long-nose pliers will just slip off.

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Date: Fri, 03 Feb 2006 05:24:32 -0000From: "KDSpriggs" <kdspriggsx~xxckt.net>Subject: Re: Help Removing Woodruff Key

Take a piece of brass rod and tap gently on top of the key first onone end then the other. They will generally "roll out".

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Date: Sat, 4 Feb 2006 00:22:50 -0800From: "Catdesign" <catdesignx~xxintergate.com>Subject: Re:Re: Help Removing Woodruff Key

Thanks all, I got the key out tonight by tapping on the end with a pieceof wood and a hammer. And yes, my long nosed pliers did slip off. Thespindle came out with the front bearings still attached, which I gatheris quite common. This is the last bit of my complete teardown, cleanand assemble. Hoping to start assembling next week so I can finally usethis lathe.

ThanksChris Sacramento, Ca

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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 05:47:39 -0000From: "lkasdorf" <ironhoarderx~xxaim.com>Subject: 101.07403 falls out of back gear- help!! [atlas_craftsman]

I have this nice old 101.07403 that I am prepping for sale. I cleanedit up and it runs fine, except that it falls out of back gear!

To enter back gear, I loosen the lock pin on the spindle and bring theback gear lever forward, causing the eccentric to engage the low speedgearing. This is all fine, except that there is enough unevenness inthe gears that a slight oscillation is set up. The back gear leverworks is way back to the point where it is out of back gear. It popsout after only about a second. The back gear lever moves very easily-maybe I need to introduce some drag here??

Anybody see this problem and have a solution?

Gracias

LK

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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 01:48:56 -0500From: "earlharrell" <earlharrellx~xxatlanticbb.net>Subject: Re: 101.07403 falls out of back gear- help!!

Hi LK, I have a very old 10x42 Atlas lathe that has seen many years ofuse and I too have the same problem. My fix was to hook a thick rubberband on the lever that engages the back gears. I then hook the other endof the rubber band to the oiler cup on the front spindle bearing. Itain't pretty, but it works like a champ! Hope this helps.

Skydoc_17

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Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2006 08:13:34 -0500 (GMT-05:00)From: Steve <skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.com>Subject: re: 101.07403 falls out of back gear- help!!

LK, I had the same problem. On mine (12x36 101.27440) there are twocollars attached with setscrews on either end. They are held in placewith setscrews. Loosen up the screws and push them outward pressingagainst the wavy spring washer, then re-tighten. That did it for me.

Steve

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Date: Sat, 18 Feb 2006 09:58:24 -0500From: "Jim Brewer" <lionx~xxborg.com>Subject: Re: Re: 101.07403 falls out of back gear- help!!

I had to add shims to mine. I got my lathe all apart and did not knowthat there were shims (711-001 or 711-002) at all. Mine just made alittle noise, had an oscillation and jumped out of gear when runningin reverse mainly.

good LuckJIM

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:58:28 -0000From: "jdmichael2001" <jdmichaelx~xxaol.com>Subject: Re: TH-54 Quadrant Bracket [atlas_craftsman]

"Bob Moorman" wrote:> I still and in dire need of the quadrant bracket for my TH-54.

Bob: Mine broke a couple years ago and I had a local weld shop repairit. It must have had several cracks for a period of time and finallygave way altogether. The repair has held up fine since then.

Jan

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 13:36:41 -0600 (Central Standard Time)From: "Bob Moorman" <k5vmxx~xxcebridge.net>Subject: Re: Re: TH-54 Quadrant Bracket

Bob Moorman wrote:> This one has also been re-welded. Broke at the same place.

Richard Schaal wrote:> Maybe you should have the repair done by someone who knows> what he's doing?

I'm tempted to let that pass, but how can you tell if a welder, in afirst class, multi-million dollar shop, is a good welder or not, untilyou try his work. This was not done by some fly by night shop, but onethat does millions of dollars of work for industry and the federalgovernment. I expected it to hold. But then, I am the one who overtightened the nut on the end of the feed screw, not him. Something hadto give. I'm not going to blame him for my stupidity.

Bob Moorman

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 14:49:21 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: TH-54 Quadrant Bracket

Go to a machinist with broken parts, piece of stock and ask if it canbe duplicated...presto...new bracket in steel not brittle weldedcasting. Better yet make a drawing and step up to milling machineyourself...milling machine and rotary table should do the trick in afew hours...if first one does not work use it as guide to avoid mistakesin making second one.

Louis

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 17:40:00 ESTFrom: LouD31M066x~xxaol.comSubject: Re: Re: TH-54 Quadrant Bracket

Richard Schaal wrote:> I've been a good enough student of this group to know that if you make> a replacement part on the Atlas that is too much stronger than the> original, you'll probably break a costlier part next time.

Yes, there is that to consider. I do not think this is a meant-to-fail,before something expensive breaks, type of part. Casting is an economicalmethod of achieving a near net shape so as to reduce the amount ofexpensive machining to a minimum. Iron is a low cost material thatfoundry(s) and foundry workers have used for centuries to cast just about

anything you can name and lots of things we can't. That said, it is notthe only method nor iron the only material suitable. Steel, aluminum,brass, bronze whatever metal comes to hand as stock can do the job...some plastics and some plywood might serve if nought else turns up.

If this were (say) 1956 a letter with a return stamped self addressedenvelope giving make, model; and serial number would obtain the currentreasonable low price of a genuine factory replacement part...longdistance phone calls way too expensive then for anything but veryimportant phone calls. Now the call is cheap but the parts may be NoLonger Available. Do you let the lathe rust or do you try to make theneeded bracket using skills, machine and materials at hand? Not everypart is worth duplicating. If this bracket were easily found andreasonably priced that would be way to go. If this necessary part ishard to get and too expensive you either make a part or part out a lathe.That is my take on it...probably others have equally valid views whichdiffer.

Louis

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:18:04 -0600 (Central Standard Time)From: "Bob Moorman" <k5vmxx~xxcebridge.net>Subject: Re: Re: TH-54 Quadrant Bracket

Bob May wrote:> My question is: How do you break a banjo? Those things really don't take> any high forces so they should last forever. I would more imagine that> they'd wear out from making adjustments over a small range of the slots.

The first time I let the tool dig into the work which jammed the feedscrew and the bracket broke. The second time was just a stupid mistake onmy part. I was putting the end support on the feed screw and tightened thetension nut way too tight. I was taught to tighten all nuts tight, andthen one more for Uncle Joe. That's from over 50 years ago. I forgot fora second it was a TENSION nut, not a support or structure nut. Iremembered just as I hit the 240 volt power switch, and heard all thenoise as the bracket broke again.

Now for an old fellow who has never made a mistake in his life, erhuff,cough-cough, it was an amazing moment. I remembered words I had learnedon the flight line back in the 50's. I'm glad the little lady was in thehouse and not out in the shop wood working. Lye soap tastes horrible letme tell you. Yes, I know. No, I do not wear the pants in my household.I learned many, many years ago to say "Yes Dear" and keep my mouth shut.Now if I think I'll try milling a new part as I said earlier, but amsomewhat worried making it from steel, so will use aluminum. That probablymakes no sense either, but it should get me a dozen or more replies.<GGG>

Bob Moorman

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Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 04:22:20 -0000From: "dawntredereding" <seapeacex~xxhotmail.com>Subject: Rusted Spot On Bedway [atlas618lathe]

I've recently inherited my dad's 618/02400 that's been sitting in acorner of his garage unused for over 30 years. It's in pretty poorcosmetic shape and was under years of dust and grime. I've beencleaning it up and surprisingly it's not in that bad of shape. Besidesall of the chrome blistered on the hand wheels and other chrome parts,just light rust. So far all has cleaned up fairly well with mineralspirits and steel wool. however there is one 2" rusted spot about 8"from the tailstock side on one of the ways. It looks like some sort ofcorrosive chemical had been splashed or dripped on the spot many yearsago leaving a white patch. During the cleaning, I found a floweredrust spot underneath. The cross slide moves very smoothly up to thispoint.What would be recommended to do at this stage? It would appearthat grinding/scraping would be necessary. Would the entire bed haveto be trued and the cross slide refitted for just this single spot?

dwt

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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 09:50:14 -0500From: "S or J" <jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net>Subject: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

Rob Peterson wrote:>>Depends on a lot of things. Scrape the rust off and see what thebedway looks like underneath. If the rusty spot is on the innerportion of the ways, then the carriage doesn't ride on that part anda "dip" in the bedway won't affect carriage movement. It "might"affect the tailstock alignment if the spot is long/deep enough thatthe tailstock can't span that part of the bed. If it's on or near theouter edge of the bedway then the carriage will ride over that.Depending on how deep the "dip" is, it'll either be a minor annoyanceor require the bedway to need reground or the bed replaced. RP <<

I would follow Rob's advice, but wait a bit before grinding or replacingthe bed per the last sentence.

With rust removed in this spot, first completely degrease the spot andimmediate area with a solvent like car brake spray cleaner or electroniccontact spray cleaner -- neither of which leave any residue after severalthorough applications. Use a rag to help wipe off gunk after each of thefirst couple of sprays. For the final spray or sprays, let the solventwash away the final residue, and then let the area dry by evaporationwithout touching it with rag or fingers.

If you have a concern about your lathe's paint (which could be from apost-factory paint job) do a small test in an inconspicuous area. Ifthere will be a problem, use some plastic sheeting to cover the other

parts of the lathe. Brake cleaner did not harm the paint on my 618, whichwas completely cleaned in this manner when first acquired.

Caution, wear safety goggles and preferably a full face shield aseyeballs do not like being degreased. You might want to do this cleaningoutside, which is easy with a relatively portable 618 when removed fromstand and motor.

When the lathe is back inside and warm again, mask around the depressedspot with paper masking tape. Putty the area with a metal-filled epoxylike J-B Weld -- trying to fill the depression but not mounding the epoxymore than necessary. Once fully cured, it can be dry sanded down to verynearly level and then wet sanded with 400 grit or finer to polish it.Keep the sanding device flat to keep the epoxy patch from being dished ormounded. Abrasive paper can be tightly wrapped around a file or 3M 77spray-adhesived to a flat piece of wood or metal.

The masking tape around the depression will protect the surrounding areaand let you know your progress. As the tape is coming apart, you arenearly done. Remove tape and dust. Lube the epoxy patch and immediatesteel area with wax and see how things work.

Given the lesser amount of activity our lathes normally get away from theheadstock, this repair may last for years and give good service. Wellworth a try before using more drastic/costly measures.

There are some very expensive epoxy products out there like Moglice thathave been featured in Home Shop Machinist during restorations, but theyare beyond my needs or experience. You can read about some uses ofMoglice in my site's file "Sherline Mill Backlash".

Good luck

Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, CanadaMachining and Metalworking at Homehttp://www.janellestudio.com/metal/

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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 07:05:16 -0800 (PST)From: Russ R <k1hopx~xxyahoo.com>Subject: Re: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

Just one small note: I read recently on another forum that the long-setting-time JB Weld is much stronger than the quickie 4 minute stuff.No personal experience, but the writer of that tip seemed veryknowlegable. I've also read (again, not used first-hand) of a materialused by gunsmiths to (for example) glue in barrel liners... calledACRAGLAS. Can be bought at Brownells and probably other gun suppliers.Sure sounds like a strong epoxy.

Good luck, and please let us know how your fix turns out if you usethis method.

Russ in CT

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Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2006 21:20:05 -0700From: Greg Smith <gsmith6913x~xxbresnan.net>Subject: Re: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

Acraglas is available in a few different forms. I would recommend thegel for this application. It is truly wondrous stuff, I use it all thetime to make repairs on items that cannot be (for one reason or theother) be welded. It also works well for renewing half nuts. Youshould be able to pick it up at your local gun store. It is an epoxygun stock bedding compound.

Best Regards,Greg

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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 16:20:27 -0000From: "n5kzw" <n5kzwx~xxarrl.net>Subject: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

You might try a small wire brush, followed by an abrasive nylon pad soakedin light oil. To be really safe, you could the a small brass wire brushinstead of a steel one. Once you have most of the loose stuff gone, switchto a fiberglass "rust eraser" pen to go after the remaining rust. I wouldtry to avoid using any type of scraper or powered device, if possible.

Regards,Ed

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Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2006 19:49:41 +0000From: cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.netSubject: Re: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

Has the idea of building up the rusted spot with splatter welding (maybewrong name for technique) been mentioned? Might be worth a look. This ishow crankshafts etc. are sometimes salvaged.

Charles

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Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 16:05:28 -0500From: "S or J" <jstudiox~xxtbaytel.net>Subject: Re: Rusted Spot On Bedway

dwt: Strongly suggest you read the files relating to machine conditioning

and other useful subjects on my site including:Atlas Repair or FittingCleaning TipsFinish For Tools (which discusses painting too)Lubricants GeneralMachine GeneralRebuilding MachineryRust Removal

There are more ideas in the other files. I did not repeat a conversationin multiple files as I did not have the web space. So some conversations,mentioning say rust removal, are buried in other subject files becausethe principal topic was something different -- and went into the mostappropriate file (my arbitrary choice).

For example, you asked about a rust spot on the 618. I filed thisconversation in Atlas Repair or Fitting as the conversation is actuallygeneric to all size Atlases (and other brands) and so it was not put intothe Atlas 618 Gems file.

Often folks in groups will tell you to read the archives before asking aquestion, because nearly every question has been asked, and answered, atleast once before.

I realize that any group archives are hard to search, and suggest youfirst try reading multiple files on my site that have already filtered outrepetitive quotes and useless stuff. And some gems of information camefrom places/groups you do not normally associate with lathes or metal-working. I have diverse interests and find good tips over a spectrum ofhobbies that can be applied to metalworking.

As suggested before for flattening an epoxy repaired area, surround a rustbump-up area with tape to protect the vicinity and file or scrape orDremel-wire-brush the bump. With luck, there will not be a big depressionleft after rust removal. But if so use a metal-filled epoxy or similarproduct to bring the hole up to flat.

Russ mentioned that the longer setting version of J-B Weld (Steel) waspreferable. True of that and any other epoxy -- those epoxies in abrand-family with the longer setting times are far stronger generally.

You have to weigh convenience (saving time) versus durability (and nothaving to do it over someday). In general purpose epoxies, the only realadvantage of a 5 minute type may (may!) be its ability to set and curenear freezing temperatures. Personally I try to use versions with longerset and cure times.

Brownell's Acraglas was mentioned by Russ and Greg. Very tough productthat I have used for bedding. Probably more expensive and less availablelocally than the J-B. Other epoxies could be used if you mixed in metalpowder/filings to strengthen the mixture and make it more resistant tolater wear.

The J-B Weld has another advantage in being resistant to pretty hightemperatures. It is often used to seal muffler joints for custom mufflersused with model aircraft engines. (And those little critters do get hotenough to leave brands on body parts.)

Steve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, CanadaMachining and Metalworking at Homehttp://www.janellestudio.com/metal/

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Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2006 18:52:29 -0000From: "Rob Peterson" <harpyx~xxavenuecable.com>Subject: Re: Back Gear assembly shaft - how to remove for a belt change?

In atlas618lathe "ree0077" wrote:> I took the screws out of the collars but still the shaft doesnt seem to> move, even with a little pin and hammer assist. Is there a trick to> it? or do I need to pound it out? Something is quite wrong here.> Thanks Rich

Use a drift and punch the pin in the handle out. Make postive surethat the "set screw" (it isn't REALLY a set screw) in the center isloosened or removed. Loosen the set screws in the two collars. Thendrive the shaft towards the end gear cover with a brass drift. Catchthe detent ball from under the handle. All there is to it.

RP

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Date: Sat, 18 Mar 2006 17:05:55 -0600From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Adjusting Gibs on model 101.28990 Saddle

Mark Simmons wrote:>Picked up a used Craftsman 12" 101.28990 lathe last fall. Been working>with it and have a few questions for you more experienced users. I found>that the saddle had a lot of twist in it so I adjusted the gibs to take>the play out. Now it seems to be tighter than I would expect for normal>use but it seems what is necessary to eliminate the twisting of the>saddle on the ways.>I was wondering what would be considered "normal" for moving the saddle?>Now I know this is very subjective so right off the bat I'll tell you>that it is pretty tight and takes much more effort than I believe it>should. I also of course made sure that the lock is released.

On a machine with little wear, a pressure of perhaps 5 Lbs directly onthe carriage would move it. You need to use something like way oil tokeep an oil film under the carriage. On a worn bed, you will find itgetting tighter at the ends, where the wear is less. Using the carriagecrank, it should only take 8 - 16 Oz of force on the handle to move it.

If it is more than that, you really have a problem. Most likely you havea worn bed that has worn the front guide edge of the carriage into aconvex arc. Once this edge is curved, jamming it with the gib is a poorfix. That will lead to more rapid wear on the bed, and the carriage, too.

So, you might pull the carriage, and inspect the edge that rides againstthe front face of the bed. Test with a straightedge or hardened andground shaft to see if that also will rock on the edge. If so, you needto scrape the edge in the middle to restore it to straightness. This istricky, as that edge assures the cross slide is perpendicular to thespindle axis.

>Next question is that again I had to adjust the gibs on the cross slide>as well as the tool post slide. Again this was to eliminate play and>twisting while turning. One thing I noticed is that there is not a way>to "lock" the cross slide or tool post slide down. When doing cut offs,>I found that the cross slide and tool post slide would creep.

The cross slide is normally snugged down quite a bit tighter than thecarriage. It might take 10 -20 Lbs to move the cross slide directly. (Youdon't normally zip the cross slide back and forth a foot at a time.) Ihave never really felt a need to lock the cross slide. You do want to snugup the bearing assembly at the handle for minimum backlash of theleadscrew itself. Tighten it up until the handle binds, then back off afew thousandths. If the leadscrew/nut is badly worn, it is a good projectto make replacement parts yourself.

>Lastly, a comment on cutting off.>I had been cutting off using a three jaw chuck and found the only way to>keep the chatter down was to cut at the slowest speeds. Today I used the>tail stock with a fixed spindle in combination with the chuck. I was>able to cut off at high speed with no problems. I know that traditional>wisdom says not to cut off between centers, but it seems cutting off>with one piece in the chuck and one held by the tail stock seems to be>the hot tip on my lathe.

Most likely your chuck jaws are worn at the tips, and only holding thework at the back edge. You can check this by loosely gripping a part inthe chuck, and seeing if you can wiggle the front end. If you can wiggleit, and it appears only the front of the part is moving, but the backseems to be pretty well restrained, that indicates worn jaws. There is aprocedure for re-cutting and grinding the jaw tips to correct this. Iwon't launch into this process here.

Jon

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NOTE TO FILE: Correcting worn chuck jaws is covered in detail in theAtlas Chucks General file. Needed for all brands eventually.

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Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2006 23:00:08 -0700From: William Abernathy <williamx~xxinch.com>Subject: Removing back gears from eccentric shaft [atlas_craftsman]

I've secured a replacement back gear and want to mount it on my 10" Atlas.I have removed the back gear assemby from the lathe, and have removed theeasy bits (set screws, collars, etc.) from the shaft. The eccentricsappear to be held in with drift pins. Before I get the hammer out: isdrifting the pins out necessary to remove the eccentrics to get at thegear? If yes, is this pin tapered or straight? (Sorry I have to ask, butone end is recessed, hence tough to measure.)

Or is there some other trick I'm missing out on entirely. Finally, onceI get the eccentric loose, will this busted gear require a puller torelease from the shaft?

Thanks mucho,William A.

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Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2006 14:10:45 -0500From: Jon Elson <elsonx~xxpico-systems.com>Subject: Re: Removing back gears from eccentric shaft

> is drifting the pins out necessary to remove the eccentrics to get at> the gear?

I think so, I had to drive out a pin to get that gear off.

> If yes, is this pin tapered or straight?

It is straight. I fretted over which end to drive from, worrying thatif it was tapered, I'd make it impossible to remove. But, not a problem.

> will this busted gear require a puller to release from the shaft?

The gear was a tight fit, and I had to drive it off. It might be easierto use a puller, but I just tapped it off with a steel bar.

Jon

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From: "tomatared" tomataredx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Apr 15, 2006 11:51am(PDT)Subject: repairing tailstock ram lock [atlas_craftsman]

Help! I have a craftsman 12" and the tailstock ram was stuck, tillthis morning. I was able to remove the ram, hammered on the screwend,but find the problem of it being stuck, is the locking sleeve. Itdoesn't budge. I have been putting kroil on it, but it still doesn't

move. Does anyone have any ideas to remove the lock sleeves?

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From: "LouD31M066x~xxaol.com" LouD31M066x~xxaol.comDate: Sat Apr 15, 2006 0:55pm(PDT)Subject: Re: repairing tailstock ram lock

Ram lock consists of upper half, lower half square head bolt, washer andknob...Bolt goes out bottom, knob and washer come off top, upper halfcomes up and bottom half goes down...assemble in reverse order...hehehe

the parts other than bolt and washer are Zamac zinc alloy...they are nodoubt jammed slightly...do not hammer unless you are willing to $pend toreplace...they will come out...

remember: the top piece comes up and the bottom piece goes down!At least that's how it worked for me...

Louis

[later message:]Gentlemen: per Atlas parts list 9-42A Lock nut with handleM6-93 washerM6-45 Lock sleeveM6-44 Lock1/4-20 x 1 5/8 square head machine bolt

Suggest your understanding of your lathe and its inner workings would beenhanced by making a phone call to Clausing Atlas x~xx (574) 533-0371 andordering the Parts List, current Parts Price List and Catalog by make,model and serial number. Nominal investment that will give you a checkon ebay bidding if nought else.

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From: "tomatared" tomataredx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Apr 15, 2006 5:38pm(PDT)Subject: Re: repairing tailstock ram lock

thanks Lou, I was able to knock the bottom half out, then had todrill out the top piece and make a new one. After I polished andhoned everything, now it works good!

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From: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat Apr 15, 2006 8:42pm(PDT)Subject: Re: repairing tailstock ram lock

The locking sleeve should be in two pieces. The bottom piece should havethreads in it, and is pulled up by the locking handle. You should be ableto put a bolt of the same thread through from the top, and tap it downwardand out. Then a rod can be tapped upward to drive out the upper part.

Jon

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From: "Al" aludtkex~xxearthlink.netDate: Sat May 27, 2006 9:11am(PDT)Subject: thread locker did the trick [atlas618lathe]

Hi Guys: Some time ago I asked for advice on how to keep my motor shaftpulley from loosening itself. One or more of you suggested that I trysome thread locking compound on the set screw. So I did. I used Permatexmedium strength Thread Locker Blue. I am happy to report that it is stillholding several weeks later, so it looks like that did the trick.

Thanks for the advice; it was an easy and inexpensive fix and I neverwould have known.

Al

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Re: Setting up lathes with cast iron legs [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "S or J" jstudiox~xxtbaytel.netDate: September 8, 2006

Mon Sep 4, 2006 "Michael Darling" miked2002x~xxearthlink.net wrote:>>My 10x24" TH42 has a set of cast-iron legs (with attached motor mount/countershaft) bolted directly to the small legs that are mounted on thebottom of the lathe bed. I'd like to get this machine up and running inthe next couple of months, and add a "table top" between the legs andlathe to put chip pans on and stuff like that. Does anyone have anyadvice on this? I've looked through some of the pics in the photosection, but still have a couple questions. Right now the lathe and legs are secured with fairly long 3/8" diabolts. This seems rigid enough for a leg-to-lathe joint, but what aboutadding the thickness of a table between the two? Should the bolts bemounted through the same holes, or should I look to mount the top to thelegs, then mount the lathe to the top with separate fasteners? I am notin a location where I can bolt the lathe to the basement floor - anytricks to stabilizing/and roughly leveling the machine? I know the fineleveling work is done with shims, but at the moment it just seems easierto build a nice, heavy cabinet to set the lathe on top of. -mike in NJ <<

Hi Mike: Today finally got my computer reconnected after a house move,so have just read your post. Some thoughts follow.

I have a small 618 and do not have a set of cast iron legs for it, buthave had similar setups for other machines. Personally those long narrowmetal legs have not inspired stability and I have usually mounted themachines on sturdy benches of wood and/or welded metal construction.

If the aim is to be true to the original, no matter what its faults orweaknesses, then keeping original is one approach. Another is to retain

all original parts so an original setup can be sold with the lathe somedayin the future. In the meanwhile adapt the machine to a bench that bettersuits your particular needs today.

My 618 is mounted on a heavy welded cabinet, tapped on its steel top forthe lathe and jackshaft/motor mounting bolts. Wooden enclosed shelves withcabinet doors on the front allow accessories to be stored out of the way,and shielded from ships and dust. Very heavy and rigid.

One machine, where I had to keep the original legs so all factoryaccessories would fit, was a Shopsmith. There, a heavy plywood board wasbolted 6" below the bed rails and serves to hold some of the accessoriesmost often used. To increase stability, and dampen vibrations, a 25 poundbag of lead shot rests on each end of the board up against the leg. [Somecheap alternatives to shot bags are sandbags. Just remember to use drysand and seal it in a sturdy bag that is in turn enclosed in a plasticouter bag to avoid moisture and rust --- and sand everywhere.]

There have been a number of discussions on benches and shop ideas that youcan find on my website in the general file Workshop Tips. There are alsomany lathe setup answers in the lathe section there, in a file calledAtlas Repair or Fitting.

Good luckSteve -- in Thunder Bay, Ontario, CanadaMachining and Metalworking at Homehttp://www.janellestudio.com/metal/

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Re: Setting up lathes with cast iron legsPosted by: "Michael Darling" miked2002x~xxearthlink.netDate: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:31 pm (PDT)

Steve, thanks for the advice. Your experiences with this seem to confirmmy fears! I am on vacation at the moment but when I get home I willinvestigate how the countershaft attaches to the legs. Then I'll startplanning a new bench, hopefully something with a good number of heavydrawers so I can keep all of the lathe business contained. I have noparticular desire to keep them, and if the lathe gets moved cross-countryafter school is over, they will probably be sold off.

Thanks again,Mike

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Re: New Owner [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Steve" skadsmx~xxpeoplepc.comDate: Tue Sep 12, 2006 7:28 am (PDT)

>I just purchased my first Lathe and look forward to many>hours learning its use. I was "lucky" enough to stumble on an Atlas>Series-10 lathe Model 10 that seams to be in fare shape.

Welcome!

>One change>gear is cracked (96 tooth) and the Pinion gear that connects to the>carriage manual drive handle is trashed (my fault on that one).

You can pick some of these up on ebay. Some parts are available throughClausing and some from Sears, believe it or not.

>I would say the unit is 98% complete the only parts I don't have are the>belts for motor drive and counter shaft, the power switch cover plate,

For belts, try the link belts, as you won't have to pull everything apartto get them on. Look for Fenner belts. (I got mine at Woodworkers Clubhttp://www.woodcraft.com/

>and I haven't found a serial number plate on the unit.

Model number is on a plate on the middle of the bed on the OPPOSITE sideon which you stand. Will start with "101.". Serial number usually stampedin the ways on the tailstock end.

>Everything else seams to be with the unit including the original>motor. (I haven't tested the motor yet)>I would welcome any information I can get on the proper>cleaning and maintenance of the Babbit bearings in the headstock.

Lubrication chart is available from Atlas. Also a lot of other goodinformation. Not sure on what to use on babbit, as mine is Timken.

You can also get parts diagrams from them as well. Send them an email.If you have accessories, look for the model number of the accessory andsend that as well, and you may get the parts/user matierals for thoseas well. You can quickly get a low-resolution parts diagram atwww.sears.com by click on the parts link and entering your model number.

>The old oil on this unit was hardened and most moving parts where>stiff or immobile. How should I properly clean and then adjust these>bearings? I don't want to do more harm than good here and I do want>this to be a working tool when I clean it up.

Someone with a babbit headstock will have to answer this one

Steve

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Re: New OwnerPosted by: "Rob Peterson" harpyx~xxavenuecable.com

Date: Tue Sep 12, 2006 8:57 pm (PDT)

> >The old oil on this unit was hardened and most moving parts where> >stiff or immobile. How should I properly clean and then adjust these> >bearings? I don't want to do more harm than good here and I do want> >this to be a working tool when I clean it up.> Someone with a babbit headstock will have to answer this one

Cleaning Babbit bearings is easy. You'll need to disassemble theheadstock though. Pull the caps (the 2 bolts on each cap) and the"shims" (could be paper or metal) and make a note of what goes where andin what orientation. Now, lift out the spindle (be careful).

Clean with mineral spirits and a bristle brush. Soaking everything welland just swish the brush around. Anything stubborn can be allowed to soakfor a bit to loosen the crud (shouldn't be much inside the bearings). Besure to clean the oil cups and passages with a narrow brush and GET THEMCLEAN. Blow them out with air to be sure no crud is in there. Any crudwill go right to the bearings so be positive sure it's clean.

Adjustments are just as easy. Lightly oil and replace the spindle intothe headstock. Replace the shims and bearing caps. and tighten the boltsdown. Set up a dial indicator and measure the deflection/movement of thespindle next to the bearing (and not the end). It shouldn't be more than.002"-.003". If it is, then remove shims from the shim pack. Remove halfof the amount of excess deflection from the shims and reassemble. Recheck.Once you have the bearings adjusted, run the machine for a few minutes(5-10 mins) at medium speed. Shut it off and check each bearing cap bytouch. If they're warm (as if they had a "fever") they're ok. If they'rehot to the touch they're too tight and you need to add a couple shims toincrease the clearance. Thermal temps should be around 105-110 degrees.

If you can't adjust the shims to bring the bearings into correctadjustment, you'll have to repour them. It's not hard to do that either.Just scary the first time. I've done it and it's EASY if you think thingsthrough first and are prepared. Toughest part will be to suspend thespindle in the bare headstock in the right place and orientation whilepouring the babbitt. A mandrel in the tailstock will do that.

Try the yahoo group for old woodworking machines for more info on pouringbabbitt bearings. The old woodworking machines "mother" website ishttp://www.owwm.com

RP

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NOTE TO FILE: The next question about parts is primarily an issue ofEXCESSIVE BACKLASH. Yes sometimes a new part is needed, but frequentlythe problem can be resolved, or severely reduced, by adjustment. Somebacklash is always going to be present no matter how you adjust evenfactory new machines. Learn to compensate for the backlash during youroperating procedure. You will find some interesting reading about

backlash in the file here called Sherline Mill Backlash. Don't be putoff by the Sherline brand or mill aspects of this file. The backlashproblem is common to virtually any lathe or mill, and the principlesof reducing backlash or compensating for backlash can be adapted toany machine.

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Re: PARTS QUESTION [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Oct 8, 2006 10:18 am (PDT)

Pete wrote:>i have a 12x24 A-C lathe that i just bought. i've been getting it>tooled up and taking some cuts. i noticed that the cross slide has>about .020 of play in it. i'd like to change the feed screw and nut>(or can i get along with just a new nut?). once i saw a link on this>site for a site to buy new replacement parts. anyone?

First, check the adjustment of the nuts on the handle. These allow youto tighten up the thrust bushing to minimal clearance. If that doesn'thelp, then you may need a new screw and nut. These may be available fromthe Clausing Service center. We have a link to them in the Supplierssection of our links page.

Jon

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Re: PARTS QUESTIONPosted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com"Date: Sun Oct 8, 2006 7:06 pm (PDT)

also tighten the screw that holds the nut ..!!!!!!!!!!!!!got rid of .050that way .......020 is tolerable ..new is between .005 - .--.010 ...if uwant the minimum , take a skim cut on the screw to even it up & cut a newnut to FIT ..i have single point cut acme & sq.internal thrds as small as7/16 ....it is slightly terrifying the first time, but so are a lot ofthings .....pay attention to rt . or left thrd....& think abt why that isso firmly in my memory!!!!!

best wishesdocn8as

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Re: PARTS QUESTIONPosted by: "jerdal" jerdalx~xxbrick.netDate: Sun Oct 8, 2006 7:28 pm (PDT)

I WOULD NOT bother to do ANYTHING to that for 0.020.... That is NOT aproblem, easy to deal with even if everything is tight now and it won'tget better.

You are gonna have SOME play regardless, and you may as well get used toit and deal with it now. Nothing is perfect, and you will be mightyT-O'd if your nice new $200 worth of new screws etc ends up with severalthou still, as I expect it will.

JT

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Re: PARTS QUESTIONPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Mon Oct 9, 2006 12:00 am (PDT)

The replacement nut for the cross-slide is somewhere between 50 and 60bucks from Clausing, last I checked.

Before you order a replacement nut, there is a second check you shouldperform. On the top of the cross-slide, there should be a short 1/4 x 20bolt. This bolt holds the cross-slide to the cross-slide screw nut. Ifthere is no washer in place under the bolt head, the couple between thecross-slide and the nut will be loose enough to account for the slopyou're running into. Make sure there's a flat washer under the bolt head,broad enough to cover the entire hole (it will just begin to interferewith the compound slide pivot base), and that there's reasonable torqueon the bolt. If this is your problem, you've got a solution that doesn'tinvolve more than a 12-cent investment.

Best of luck.William

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Re: Countershaft pulley [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Rob Peterson" harpyx~xxavenuecable.comDate: Mon Oct 9, 2006 11:51 am (PDT)

robert simone wrote:>> I recently purchased an Atlas-Craftsmann 6" lathe. Upon cleaningit, I noticed the pulley i.d. on the countershaft had some play in itand had apparently worn oblong on the spindle. I would like to keepit as it is original to the lathe and has the proper number for thatpart. I priced one at Clausing and found it to be too much money. Iwas wondering if anyone on the board has repaired one. I wasthinking of reaming or boring out the pulley i.d. and rebushing it.Any help would be appreciated. <<

You could make a bushing on the lathe using the wobbly pulley then justbore and press the bushing into the pulley for the repair. Since thepulley uses just a set screw there's no keyway issue to deal with.Aluminum should work fine I'd think but I'm no expert.

I'd make a "test" hole with the drillpress and the drill you're going touse to bore the pulley unless you have access to another lathe to bore thepulley on. Then fit the bushing OD to that as an interference fit (pressfit). You'll need to make a provision for the set screw (a hole in the

bushing in the right place) and you may need a longer screw since thebushing will remove/replace the threads at the bottom of the hole.

RP

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Re: Countershaft pulleyPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 12:40 pm (PDT)

> I'd make a "test" hole with the drillpress and the drill you're going> to use to bore the pulley unless you have access to another lathe to> bore the pulley on.

Drilling and boring are two very different things.

If the pulley wobbles now, and he drills it out and bushes it, it willcure the wobble but it will now run eccentrically.

If, on the other hand, he gets it running true on the lathe and then boresit and bushes, it will run true on the countershaft. If he can't do thatbecause he needs the pulley to run his lathe and has no access to another,he's stuck. Unless he wants to make a new pulley from scratch.

John Martin

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Re: Countershaft pulleyPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon Oct 9, 2006 4:48 pm (PDT)

>If he can't do that because he needs the pulley to run his lathe and has>no access to another, he's stuck.

The boring operation could actually be done by hand, if you just neededto do it once to fix the lathe. You could just turn the chuck orfaceplate while taking a light cut.

Jon

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Re: Countershaft pulleyPosted by: "vulcom1" vulcomx~xxtelusplanet.netDate: Mon Oct 9, 2006 1:54 pm (PDT)

Another way is if he has a drill press or mill is to clamp it to the tableon centre. Mount an adjustable boring bar in the chuck or mill and go downthrough it. Then it can be bushed. Just happen to have just done this ona block of alum. that I could not mount in my 10".

John

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Re: Countershaft pulleyPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Oct 9, 2006 2:43 pm (PDT)

Agreed. If he has a mill, this will work perfectly. All he has to do isalign the pulley with the mill spindle, which he can do by sweeping therim with a test indicator.

Single-point boring on a drill press isn't such a hot idea, as the quill/spindle/bearings/chuck/boring bar combination isn't usually rigid enough.

There is a way to do it, though, and that's with a piloted boring bar.Given just a lightweight drill press, here's what I'd do: On the lathe,turn a shallow recess in a block of hardwood just large enough to acceptthe pulley rim.

Bore a through hole in it - say, 1/2" diameter. Just large enough to takea homemade boring bar. Pulley and boring bar should be snug fits. Drillthe boring bar to take a square or round piece of HSS as a cutter, in theusual manner of homemade boring bars. Except that, rather than having thecutter at the end of the bar, leave a couple of inches of bar ahead ofthe cutter to act as a pilot. It can help to relieve the bar in the areaof the cutter to keep chips from packing up.

Now he can bore the pulley on even a loose drill press, using the hardwoodblock as a pilot bushing and centering device for the pulley. The onlydrawback to this - other than the time to make up the block and boring bar- is that a boring bar of this type can be tricky to set to an exact borediameter. But, he can always turn the bushing to fit. Or maybe he can't- since that would require a working lathe.

He could also make that hardwood block out of, say, 1/2" steel instead,with a center hole the size of the hole he wants to end up with. Use iton the drill press, not underneath the pulley but on top of it as a drillguide. Still prefer the piloted boring bar, though.

John Martin

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Re: How do I remove the headstock guard? [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "Jason Spangle" jasonspanglex~xxhotmail.comDate: Tue Nov 14, 2006 1:50 pm ((PST))

I've always used a small socket, taped to a C-clamp to get those pins out.I hold a drive pin (smaller than the pin getting removed of course) to theother pin's end, and have the taped socket on the opposite side. Then Isimply start turning the C-clamp, driving the pin out. Never had anythingbreak this way. The pin gets pushed out, and inside the socket, and allthe force is on the inside wall, no need to tap or hammer anything.

I've used this method for all sorts of pin removal, it works really good,and there's never a risk of breaking a casting.

Jason

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Re: back gear trouble [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:18 am ((PST))

In a message dated 1/22/07, njdubx~xxyahoo.com writes:> Hello, this is my first post with this group.> A friend and I have been trying to get a Atlas 6 inch 618 to do some> turning, it's in pretty good shape. This lathe has the tapered roller> bearings. The problem is when the back gears are engaged they sieze> up. When they are disengaged everything turns, spins fine. At first> glance it looks like the eccentric shaft is causing the problem, but> it spins fine when disengaged. And the engaging lever movement> appears to be normal. I have read through the manual some, thought I> would ask a few questions before taking it apart.> I didn't see anything right away in the archives, I can be referred> to any past post that cover this. Hope this isn't a question all> the new guys ask, thanks for any advice you might have. Nick

Not all the new guys ask, but it's not uncommon. What is uncommon is thatyou first have and have read the manual and searched the archives. You'llgo a long way with the lathe with that approach - congratulations!

Since the spindle turns, and the back gears turn, there are twopossibilities:

1. The back gear assembly is meshing too tightly with the spindle gears.Not too likely, but you can check it by engaging the gears only part way(not under power).

2. The spindle step pulley and the small spindle gear have to be free torotate on the spindle, at a greater speed than the spindle, when in backgear. Two things can keep this from happening.

One: the locking pin that goes through the side of the bull gear into thespindle step pulley. This should be pushed in when in direct drive, but

pulled out when in back gear.

Two: the step pulley / small spindle gear assembly have bronze bearingswhich run on the spindle. These could be frozen. They are meant to belubricated through a small hole in the pulley which is plugged by a setscrew. That set screw is a common problem - many people think it is alocking screw, and tighten it down on the spindle. It isn't - it's onlymeant to keep the oil in. It's not uncommon, by the way, to find doubleset screws in some holes, although I'm not sure there are enough threadsin the pulley for that. HTH

John Martin Cumberland, Maine

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Re: back gear troublePosted by: "njdub" njdubx~xxyahoo.com njdubDate: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:06 am ((PST))

I found the pin, just didn't see it, had a good amount of oil and dustbuilt up on it. We could stand to have a better light in the basement aswell. The words in the manual make more sense to me now. Thank you foryour help.

Nick

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Re: Moving Lathe to new location [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "old2l63" oldtoolx~xxfvi.net old2l63Date: Sat Mar 24, 2007 10:39 am ((PDT))

"markalan05" wrote:> bed by removing a couple of screws. It is still very heavy!> 1) Is it safe and easy to unbolt and remove the main drive unit with> gear box attached from the bed without causing damage or reassembly> issues?> 2) Should I avoid removing the drive system and muscle it into position?> 3) A description of the removal would be appreciated.> Thanks Mark

Mark has posed the "moving" question:I just sold a 12 inch, and recently moved my 6 inch. I also have a SouthBend 9 inch, and have move all more than I care to recount.

Even on the larger lathes I can move the bed with the headstock in placewith two reasonable strong guys. My wife (not so strong) and I moved theAtlas 12 from 1 bench to another. Use a dolly when possible. I have anifty 2 wheeler that converts to a 4 wheeler. That is less than $40 atthe hardware store. Place a piece of plywood on it in the flat positionfor moving. Use straps to secure it. The lathe is top heavy!

Remove the tailstock, and cross slide. You will need to remove the leadscrew and loosen the gibs to get the cross slide off. It's 2 bolts on thebearing end of the screw, and it slips out of the headstock. Keep the

bearing on the screw. The gibs are 3 set screws, but don't let the gibfall on the floor. It is loose in the slot.

The head stock comes off if necessary, but then you have to deal withrealigning the gear train. It is not impossible, but it is a pain. Ithas 2 large bolts with cast retainers under the headstock if you feelthe need.

Remove or secure all flappy pieces you don't want to break them. DAMHIKT

I agree that disassembly and reassembly are good for the soul. Do agood cleaning with kerosine and relube the machine prior to use.

Mike

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NOTE TO FILE: Years ago similar equipment moving discussions resulted inmany tales of how-to's and what-not-to's, along with some hair raisingaccidents. One fellow said he found a company called something likeDeath Wish Piano Movers and hired them to move his machinery. Professionalmachinery movers likely have proper insurance along with adequate know-ledge and safety equipment and experience to hopefully do it safely.

A few bucks for a professional mover is likely money well spent comparedto the safety risk to your machinery and/or family and friends if youchoose to do it yourself and end up exceeding your capabilities. Safetyshould be your primary concern here.

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Newb saying hi and a couple questions [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "lbhgti" lbhsbzx~xxhotmail.comDate: Sun Apr 15, 2007 4:07 pm ((PDT))

My name is Pat and I recently joined this group after purchasing anAtlas 10" lathe. About 2 years ago, I bought a Harbor freight 7x12lathe and mini mill, but some of my current projects have been a bitlarge for the lathe. I found the Atlas for $300 in the localclassifieds and jumped on it. When I got it home I found out that theapron handwheel gear had a missing tooth, making carriage feed kind ofjumpy, and the compound gib was bend and galled up. Aside from that,I've just got to figure out if I can quiet down the change gears and Ithink I'll be good to go. I found a complete compound and the gear onebay, and also picked up an Aloris style QCTP and an 8" 4 jaw chuck.

Question: How do I take the compound apart? I was able to get thebad gib out by loosening the set screws, but I can't figure out how toremove the compound from its base.

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:51 pm ((PDT))

My compound has two square headed bolts on either side of the base.these push into a pair of pins that bind the compound into position ontothe male mounting pad. Loosen those bolts and if it's not comping loosetry shooting in some penetrating oil or solvent (brake cleaner worksgood). Those pins may be stuck in place. You should be able to replaceyour old gib with something made out of cold rolled flat stock.

I've found if I run the change gears to tight they make all sorts ofnoise. I set mine so the teeth engage about 2/3 of the way and I use barchange oil as a lubricant (I use this on the ways as well). I've heardsome people use moly based lubes. I've not tried that but I'd bet itkeeps things quiet.

That gear in the apron is peened onto the shaft it rides on. I've neverpulled any of those gears off, so I have no advise there, maybe someoneelse has.

Brett Jones

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Sun Apr 15, 2007 6:03 pm ((PDT))

The compound is mounted to the cross slide with a circular dovetail joint.There are two (should be square head) screws that lock the compound fromswiveling. If you loosen these screws about a half inch or so the slugsthat hold the compound on can be wiggled back in their bores and thecompound comes off. The amount of crud built up will determine how hardthis might be :)

HTHGlenn

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "lbhgti" lbhsbzx~xxhotmail.comDate: Sun Apr 15, 2007 8:41 pm ((PDT))

I read both responses and maybe I'm just stupid, but I don't see anysquare head bolts anywhere. There are 2 hex nuts that retain the swivelmechanism, but that's all I can see. Those are off and the swivel partis separated. On my little china lathe, to get the compound off the baseon which it slides, I just keep threading it back and eventually it runsout of threads and I take it off. The atlas unit stops turning before itruns out of threads... I'm still confused. I suppose I could just slidethe new gib in and use it but I'd really like to disassemble it and cleanand lap everything.

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.com

Date: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:02 pm ((PDT))

I guess I misunderstood what you were trying to do. There should be twofasteners on either side of the dial. Remove them and unscrew theassembly. The top of the compound then slides off.

Brett Jones

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:30 pm ((PDT))

Oh .. duhh I answered the wrong question .. I told you how to get thecompound off the cross slide. To take the compound apart you remove thetwo screws on either side of the dial (in the aluminum plate) and thecompound just slides back off the screw and the gibbs will then beexposed.

Sorry bout the communication breakdown .. hope this is a better answer :)

Glenn

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" catboat15x~xxaol.comDate: Tue Apr 17, 2007 4:06 pm ((PDT))

To get the compound off the cross slide simply loosen the two set screwson the base of the compound; this takes the pressure off the pins thathold the compound onto the cross slide. Then the fun part begins. Thecompound fits over a disk on the cross slide that is tapered larger at thetop than at the bottom and the pins that are under the set screws have ataper to match the disk. But, often you will find the pins are stuck inold grease or oil and won't slide back the way they are supposed to move.(Been there done that, but didn't get a T shirt.)

You twist, you pull to try to put a thin magnet down the hole to pull onthose X#%$# Pins and they still won't come loose. Eventually the pins domove back after a lot of twisting and pulling, and then you can clean theholes, pins and mounting disk with solvent and things will work better inthe future. I thought about using some kind of adhesive on a wood skewerto pull on the pins, but it's probably so oily on the ends that anadhesive would not stick. (By pulling don't bend or break anything, justenough to lift the compound off.)

My particular problem was that I put the old milling adopter that camewith my lathe on the saddle and could not get it off again for afrustrating period.

John Meacham from the high deserts of Calif12 inch Atlas lathe, mini mill, HF band saw and a rusty file.

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "lbhgti" lbhsbzx~xxhotmail.comDate: Tue Apr 24, 2007 12:07 am ((PDT))

Most of you responded saying that there was a turret like dovetail pivotfor the compound...mine didn't have that. Mine just has a shallow roundsort of pilot that the compound pivots on. The spare compound and gib Ibought off ebay came with a dovetail turret, but mine is different. Thepart I bought has 4 gib adjustment screws, and mine only has 3 flatheadnon-locknut set screws. Maybe I've got the cheapo model. Anyway, I've gotto a figure out a way to clamp the gib strip in my chinese mini-mill toface off the seats for the 3 adjustment screws in the new gib strip,because they are in different spots than the replacement piece that I got.

I also found the apron shaft/gear on ebay for about $30, brand new.I'll work on it this week I hope....got some pieces to make, so I needto get the lathe working. I picked up an 8" 4 jaw craftsman chuck onebay for $180 shipped too, and a cheapo aloris style QCTP. Onceagain, I find myself broke with a new toy to play with.

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Re: Newb saying hi and a couple questionsPosted by: "lbhgti" lbhsbzx~xxhotmail.comDate: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:13 pm ((PDT))

Alright guys, thanks for the help. I took the carriage off today, replacedthe traverse gear and dissassembled, cleaned, lubed, and reassemebledeverything. I got the gibs adjusted and the lathe works nice and smooth.I even leveled it. I got a little scared because it seemed that the oilpots on the spindle bearings would empty every time I started the lathe...I thought the bearings were toast, so I pulled off the rear cap. Thespindle looks like a mirror, and the bearing had only a little wear...nottoo bad. The little felt wicks are gone in the oil pots, so it would suckall the oil into the bearing. I'll figure out something to stick in thereand I should be fine.

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NOTE TO FILE: Folks have used alternatives to factory wicking in theheadstock oil pots. Popular solutions include: a piece of felt (from afabric store or piece of old felt hat), or a short length of thick cottonshoelace as for athletic shoes. Just remember to top up the oil before

starting to use the lathe. Too little oil will cause an overheating andpotentially excessive wear situation. Overoiling just means the tabletopor tray under the headstock will not rust anytime soon. True felt howeveris the best replacement for wipers on lathe carriages or similar. Seethe next message.

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Re: What do you guys use for felts? [Metal_Shapers]Posted by: "Ed Godwin" eng4turnsx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Apr 30, 2007 6:09 am ((PDT))

viajoaquin... wrote:> McMaster-Carr http://www.mcmaster.com/ sells 12" square sheets of wiper> felt (F5). Look up item # 8341K31 1/8" or 8341K36 3/16". BakoRoy

Ditto on McMaster-Carr. They have a good write-up on the various gradesof felt. I use the F-1 grade for my wipers, it's a little denser than theF-5. You can get sheets in various thicknesses, rounds, etc.

Ed in Florida

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[atlas_craftsman]Re: anyone mastered the 12x36 101.27440 craftsman atlas lathe? i havPosted by: "neil carey" neilpcareyx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:19 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for replying to my email. I am having many problems. But the firstis with the reverse tumbler lever gears. I took my lathe totally apartand cleaned and painted everything. I tightened the bolts on the reversetumbler to take out the slack in them. And when I go to use the carriagethe bolts really scream and then tighten up and totally lock up. If Ileave the nuts too loose the nut will fall off, and when I tighten themup, they just get tighter when I am using the carriage. Hope this isenough info to get my point across of what my problem is. Any help wouldbe great.

Thanksneil

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Re: anyone mastered the 12x36 101.27440 craftsman atlas lathe? i havPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Mon Apr 30, 2007 8:36 pm ((PDT))

I'd bet the hardened race that the Zamak bearing runs on is the trouble.The 12" I'm working on has this issue also. If the race were longenough, the nut would bottom out on it and the gear and bearing wouldspin freely. I was going to simply replace mine with new parts, but Ithink one could just cut a spacer to shim out the race without it

getting in the way of the bearing and gear.

Brett Jones

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Re: anyone mastered the 12x36 101.27440 craftsman atlas lathe? i havPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue May 1, 2007 10:08 am ((PDT))

The bushings that the gears run on are supposed to be longer than thekeyed spacers or the stack of two gears. You can actually turn downthe spacers a little if your bushings are mashed, or make new bushings.When these are right, you can tighten the nuts much harder than you'dneed to to keep them from getting loose, with no binding.

Jon

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Re: Vertical countershaft flops out [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat May 5, 2007 5:45 pm ((PDT))

William Abernathy wrote:> I have an annoying problem on my 10" Atlas. When under power, thesecondary drive (from the vertical countershaft to the spindle pulleys)flops out of engagement. I had a really lumpy old belt on there, and Ireplaced it with a new Fenner linked belt. Unfortunately, this one flopsout of engagement as well. If I tighten up the belt using the screwadjusters on the countershaft, it flops out faster. If I loosen it, itdoesn't transmit power effectively, and still can flop over. I've takento running the lathe with one hand on the engagement lever, which, whilecharmingly idiosyncratic, strikes me as a bit daft and possibly unsafe. <

These things have a flat on a shaft that loads the belt tension by pushingthe countershaft away from the spindle. I am more familiar with thehorizontal version, but I think the general linkage is pretty similar.It depends on the flat being truly flat to work. If the edges of the flatare rounded off enough, then it won't hold the controlling shaft in theflat. You should get a distinct over-center feel when the countershaft isup and tightening the belts, ie. it should lift up and then ease it backjust a hair in the fully engaged position. If it doesn't have that littlerelease back, the handle can slowly creep out of position. You may have toremake the shaft with the flats to get this to work. It is also possiblethat whatever sits in the flats has become rounded off or otherwise is notseating completely onto the flats. The key is that the two flat surfaceswork together to make a stable position.

Jon

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Re: Vertical countershaft flops outPosted by: "Jim C" jimc1950x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun May 6, 2007 3:29 pm ((PDT))

Yep mine does that. Tried all that I could. Finally I added a spring tohelp hold tension on the "down" side of the shaft. Works great. Justdon't look behind the lathe.

Jim

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power crossfed on 101.07403 [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Bill Libecap" Mr_Billx~xxmailcity.comDate: Sat Jun 2, 2007 10:37 am ((PDT))

Hi Guys: I am somewhat new here. I purchased a lathe and the power crossfeed now would not move. I removed the carriage apron and discovered a lotof metal curls jammed in the gears 9-102-24 and the miter gear 10f-83.After reassembly it would move in and out without problems but no powercross feed. The shaft turns but the miter gear on the shaft 10f-82A justspins. I looked inside it and it appears smooth. If this doesn't havethreads in it I don't understand how the power cross feed could work. Isthis gear my problem? Is this a common problem? How do I fix it?

Bill

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Re: power crossfed on 101.07403Posted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sat Jun 2, 2007 11:22 am ((PDT))

On these machines the power cross feed runs off the lead screw. Soassuming your screw is turning, the miter gear that the lead screw runsthrough turns via the key slot in the screw and transmits the power upto the cross feed.

I've seen a few miter gears that have the internal key sheared off.That's the first place I'd look.

Brett Jones

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Re: power crossfed on 101.07403Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Sat Jun 2, 2007 2:12 pm ((PDT))

Your gear should probably look somewhat like the one on the right in thepicture linked:http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/newgear2.jpg

You can see the key. Since the key may be the relatively weak castingmaterial (Zamac) it isn't hard to shear it, expecially if it was jammed.

JT

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Re: power crossfed on 101.07403Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Jun 3, 2007 3:07 pm ((PDT))

seb fontana wrote:> That gear should have a integral key..they just wear down to nothing.> You'll have to replace the gear..

You can also bore out the gear and make a brass hub with integral keywayand glue it in.

Jon

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Re: power crossfed on 101.07403Posted by: "Kirk Scammon" kscammonx~xxpegasus.cc.ucf.eduDate: Tue Jun 5, 2007 8:38 am ((PDT))

Bill: This was the case with my 07403, and the previous owner fixed itby drilling and tapping a 1/4 -28 tpi hole in the side of the bevel gear.He then threaded a small length of screw into the hole. The end of thescrew was filed down so that it fit into the cut groove in the leadscrew.I have had the lathe for about 10 years and have not had a problemwith it.

This is very much like the screw in the bottom of the tailstock ram thatkeeps it from rotating.

RegardsKirk

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NOTE TO FILE: The proper procedure for engaging (or disengaging) theback gear on various Atlas lathes comes up periodically. The followingshort discussion is to the point.

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Backgear [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Kirk Hillman" hillman88x~xxtelus.netDate: Sun Jun 3, 2007 5:10 pm ((PDT))

Could someone please explain how the backgear is SUPPOSED to work on anAtlas TH54? Mine just acts as a lock right now. One would think that thegears on the main spindle should somehow be able to turn independently,

one of them being locked to the shaft and/or the pulleys. Thus, when thegears on the eccentric shaft are engaged one drives the other but at adifferent speed than normal. Unless I have missed something mine is lockedtogether in some way that I cannot discern. Can anyone enlighten me onwhat I might be missing here?

Thanks,Kirk

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Sun Jun 3, 2007 6:33 pm ((PDT))

Brett Jones wrote:> Release the locking pin on the bull gear.

In a bit more detail: look at the face of the bull gear. Inboard of thegear teeth, there's a button. Pull it out, and the bull gear willfreewheel. Then you can lock the back gears and run on back gearing.

William

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "Glenn" glennx~xxentropian.comDate: Mon Jun 4, 2007 8:44 am ((PDT))

I think this was covered a while back (check archives)...

Your step pulley may be frozen to the spindle, OR someone might have runthe pulley's set screw into the spindle.

There's a set screw (or should be) in the step pulley on the spindle.Clean the dust and grime from around it, remove it, and squirt ahealthy portion of your favorite oil in the hole. Put the set screwback in, but only part way. It must not touch the spindle! It's onlythere to keep some oil in and the chips out of the bushings.

Now, if it was the set screw, the pulley should spin smooth and freewhen the bull gear pin is pulled as mentioned by Brett.

If it's a frozen pulley, you will need to work it free... flood withWD40 and work at it. Be sure oil well after the WD40. If the pulley isfrozen, you may want to pull the spindle, clean it all up, and replacethe bushings before using the back gear much. A dried up bushing willdamage the spindle.

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "Robert Rochelle" irene4popsx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jun 4, 2007 12:54 pm ((PDT))

I hate to bother you, but I have a 618 that I've taken apart, soaked inmineral spirits & gotten cleaned up and am now in the process ofreassembling. I have no manual. If I understand your post correctly, theset screw in the bull gear should be tightened and is a real set screwwhile the one in the pulley stack is just an oil plug? I noticed there isa groove in the spindle where the pulley "setscrew" would align. Mine hadsome scarring in and around it. Is it necessary to loosen the bullgearsetscrew when using the back gears, or will just pulling the pin allow thebackgears to work?

The pin on mine was pretty beat up because the ball and spring had beenlost & the set screw there was being used directly against the pin. Had ahard time finding a spring & ball to work & deburring & polishing the pinup so it would move right, but the set screw I am asking about aboveappears to be a real set screw meant to be tightened against the spindleand is about 180 dgrees from the screw for the spring/ball that acts asa pin detent.

Jackie Rochelle

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Jun 4, 2007 1:26 pm ((PDT))

The bull gear is meant to ALWAYS stay locked to the spindle.

In direct drive (high speeds) the pin in the bull gear locks into the steppulley. The belt drives the step pulley, the step pulley drives the bullgear, the bull gear drives the spindle.

In back gear drive (low speeds) the pin in the bull gear is retracted. Thebelt drives the step pulley, which is free to spin on the spindle. Thesmall gear on the end of the step pulley drives the large gear on the backgear shaft. The small gear on the back gear shaft drives the bull gear,which drives the spindle.

Manuals are readily available....

John Martin Cumberland, Maine

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Mon Jun 4, 2007 11:01 pm ((PDT))

I am not sure I completely follow what you are saying but .. The setscrewin the pulley is an oil hole plug. The setscrew down inside the bullgearis .. a setscrew. The setscrew by the pin in the bullgear is just to holdthe spring and ball detent in place to keep the pin from moving on itsown. All you should have to do to engage the backgears is pull the pin andflip the lever. The groove in the spindle is not supposed to be there butI doubt it has hurt anything. If you loosen the bullgear setscrew and tryto run the lathe all sorts of bad things can happen.

HTHGlenn N

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Re: BackgearPosted by: "irene4pops" irene4popsx~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Jun 5, 2007 5:17 am ((PDT))

OK--thanks. I think I got it all figured out yesterday rotating stuff byhand. I'm still in the process of reassembling. Definitely will be usinglink belts. If I hadn't stumbled over your post I would have certainlygotten it wrong.

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Re: my "new" Atlas 10" Lathe [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "danaz.chandler" djnx~xxieee.org danaz.chandlerDate: Thu Jun 7, 2007 7:12 pm ((PDT))

I had my ways done earlier this year and have some observations aboutthis:

1. The surface grinder has a magnetic base. The bed bottom that boltsto the feet are not always going to be registered to the top. So ifyou clamp the bottom of the bed casting down, it may bow. Grinding itthen is bad. In order to do this properly, you have to place the bed,ways down on a surface plate and then grind the bottom flat. Thenturn it all over and finish up on the top of the ways.

2. Check way thickness as I found after this about a .006 differenceoverall...You may then have to grind the underside parallel to thetop....Keep this in mind.

3. If you take more than about .010 off of the ways, consider takingthe same amount off the apron casting. This will keep the leadscrewcentered in the apron gears and half nut.

4. Headstock and tail stock alignment are not affected by the grinding.Just bolt them down again and align the tail stock to the headstock(using centers).

5. Be sure and take all twist and bow out of the bed when bolting it

down again. Probably won't be the same as previous. Use a nice level.

Hope this helps...Represents my learning curve over the last 4 months...(been back to the surface grinder 3 times...)

Dan in Chandler

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Re: my "new" Atlas 10" LathePosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com"Date: Fri Jun 8, 2007 8:51 am ((PDT))

If and when you grind your ways it will change the distance from the topof the ways to the lead screw so some adjustments may be necessary atthat point.

On my 12 inch there are a couple of shims between the cross slide castingand the apron apparently to allow for that possible change in dimension.This distance affects several things, the fit of the half nuts onto thelead screw and the fit of the traversing gear to the rack.

So I would think carefully about having ways re-ground. Only if reallynecessary, not just for appearance.

John Meacham from the high deserts of Calif

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Re: troubleshooting quickchange gearbox[atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Mon Jun 11, 2007 11:12 am ((PDT))

Triumph Chopper wrote:> I need some information on troubleshooting a quickchange gearbox on a> 12x36 Atlas lathe.> I'm having trouble shifting the two levers from one slot to another.> They just don't want to go in. The levers slide easily left and right,> but I'm having a devil of a time getting them to line up with the> slots, primarily the ones in the cemter. The right side lever> will easily fo into the slots on the left and right, but lots of> trouble with the other slots. Same for the left lever.> What should I be looking for to see what's causing the problem?> An unrelated question: the rear pully that attaches to the motor - is> it supposed to have two or only one slot? The reason I ask is because> the door rubs on it when I tried to close it. I took the door off to> end the distraction, but I would like to find a solution.

The gears in these gearbox run on a common shafts and are adjustable.

A few months back I dismantled and cleaned up the QC on my early 12"Craftsman and found during reassembly that some care was needed incorrectly positioning the the gears so they line up with the lever gates.

I'd pull the gearbox off and look for a loose setscrew in a collar. With

the box off aligning the gears to the gate is simple enough.

Brett Jones

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Re: troubleshooting quickchange gearboxPosted by: "James Sterner" jimmy163333x~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jun 11, 2007 12:07 pm ((PDT))

I have a different lathe, but with mine I sometimes have to turn thelead screw by hand till the teeth of the gears line up then the leverfalls right into place. With the lever in the disengaged mode the leadscrew should spin freely with just fingers to move it. If that doesn'twork you might have years of dried crudded up oil and or grease thatmight need to be cleaned out and then the gears should be re-oiled witha good spindle oil. At least 50% and maybe more of my back-gear teethwere filled with this very hard gunk that I had to scrape out with a screwdriver. Now the teeth mesh the way they were designed to, and it will helpin preventing broken & stripped teeth with them going to their full depth.

I hope this helps. Let us know if it doesn't do anything, we can try tocome up with another solution.

Jim

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Re: troubleshooting quickchange gearboxPosted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.comDate: Mon Jun 11, 2007 5:56 pm ((PDT))

If you look up into the underside of the gearbox (kinda hard if youhave a cabinet stand with a chip tray, try an inspection mirror and aflashlight), you will see that the levers actually slide back and forthon a single steel shaft, meshing with gears above.

If you grab the handles themselves, the levers are likely to tilt ratherthan slide and bind up on the shafts, particularly if the holes are wornoblong. Your best bet is to grab onto the lower end of the levers, belowthe handles where they actually go into the gearbox. You should be ableto slide the lever much more easily from that position.

If the hole is really oblong, disassembling the gearbox, boring out thelevers, and bushing them with bronze bushings would help them slide muchbetter without twisting. A better design would be two parallel shafts andbushings, rather than just one. The specific problem you are having isthat they are alternately binding a bit and sliding all over the place.Holding the levers farther down will give you more control and helpsolve this problem.

You also need to turn the spindle so that the gear teeth align,particularly when shifting from a higher feed to a lower feed.

Michael

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NOTE TO FILE: Building a stand for a lathe (or any machine) has beendiscussed in the file Workshop Tips here, and levelling/setting up hasbeen described before. John Meacham has provided an excellent summaryof some key points in the next message, which applies to any lathe.

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Lathe Bench for 618 [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com"Date: Wed Jun 13, 2007 9:07 am ((PDT))

When we want to build a "bed" for our "babies" there is really one thingto realize. That is that both the head stock and tail stock are in theexact same plane and will remain so.

First thing is where are we going to use the lathe. Many of us have beenforced to put the family sedan out in the weather so our lathe can remainindoors. Here in the USA many concrete garage floors are not flat andlevel. Building codes require that a garage floor be finished off with aslope towards the door so that spilled liquids will not puddle in thegarage and create a fire hazard. So when you design your bench, check thatthe area where your bench will be used is truly flat or adjust the leglengths to make the top just as flat and level as you want it.

I had an old Atlas book that recommended a bench top made up of 2 X 4lumber with the wood set on edge and through bolted with threaded rods.I would not recommend that unless you have a source of well seasoned wood.Some of the so called 2 X 4 I have purchased at my local home center aftera few weeks look as if they came out of a propeller factory. (I also buildboats, and that is a real problem.) So the laminated ply or metal is agood choice for the bench top.

Looking at the worst possible case would be where you tightly bolt allfour corners down to a top that changes shape with every change inweather and forces a twist in the bed. This will show up as the lathewill want to turn a taper on a shaft when you needed a parallel shaft.And worse, when you sent the centers in line with the tail stock castingnear the head stock for alignment, when the tail stock is slid down tothe far end it no longer is in alignment between centers. Still lookingat the worst case, if your bench changes with changes in your shoptemperature and humidity, the bench top will be constantly pulling atthe bed and changing the alignment of your lathe.

Finally, when we speak of "leveling" a lathe it is not necessary for thelathe to be level, just that both the head stock feet and the tail stockfeet are on the same plane. (A good machinist level is nice, but not

necessary.)

Some models of the Atlas have only one hole at the tail end for a mountingbolt. (That is the way my present 12 inch model is made.) In my particularsituation where I am forced to use my lathe on a wood floor tool shed thatis an advantage as I keep the single bolt at the tail stock only fingertight as a positioning means, not to hold the bed down tight to the bench.

Many old time shops kept a "test bar" in the tool room for checking thelathe before any critical work was begun. A test bar is a steel (or othermetal) shaft about as long as any expected work you contemplate with aring turned on the end with the bar between centers. Turn the ring asclose to the head stock as you can with the bar between centers; turn thebar end for end and turn another ring without moving the tool so you knowboth rings are the same diameter. Then keep that bar in a safe locactionand if you want to either re-set the centers after turning a taper or tocheck that the lathe is sill set "level", simply indicate the ring closestto the head stock; then without changing the cross or compound slide movethe carriage to the other end and it should indicate the same.

Incidentally if you have offset the tail stock for some reason to turna tapered piece of work and want to reset the tail stock to center again,simply slide the tail stock towards the head and lightly pinch a steelrule between the centers and if the rule is held by the centers at rightangles to the bed the centers are in line. (It is also a good check to seeif that treasure you see at the garage sale has a badly worn bed nearthe head stock which is the usual case for an old lathe with many yearsof use.)

Right now I don't have a test bar, I must turn up another. It seems thatevery time I start a project that test bar in the corner is stock of justthe right size for my present project.

Also remember the alignment of the tail stock with the head stock is onlyat the length of your test bar, so check with the rule with the tail stockclose to the head and also with the test bar with the tail stock back atthe length of our test bar.

Have fun and always remember if that tool will cut steel it sure won'thave any trouble cutting your flesh.

John Meacham from the high deserts of Calif12 inch Atlas lathe, mini mill, HF band saw and a rusty file.

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Re: tail stock tight [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:01 pm ((PDT))

smitty wrote:> I have a 12/36craftsman deluxe model 101-07403,tail stock needs work. I> need to take it apart but not sure exactly how to go about doing that.

Advance the quill until it runs off the threads and then pull it out therest of the way. If it's sticky, use some sort of penetrating oil toloosen it up. There should be a nut and a locking nut at the hand wheelend. Remove those nuts and, using a soft faced hammer, tap the screwforward a bit to unstick the key; then pull off the hand wheel and removethe key from the shaft. Use a spanner or whatever you have handy tounscrew the cone-shaped bearing/support at the rear of the tail stock.

Brett Jones

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Re: Searching for carriage parts [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "ChrisandJudy" chrisandjudyx~xxcableone.netDate: Wed Jun 27, 2007 1:11 pm ((PDT))

John Meacham wrote:>>One problem with the Zamac parts -- they are difficult to repair. Somehave reported that with a good cleaning a material like JBweld can beused if the part is not under a lot of pressure, sometimes worth a try.<<

I have a 12X36 Craftsman 101.07380 and have had to have some Zamac partsrepaired. I have a friend who was a welder for Boeing Aircraft for 35years. I took my carriage transmission to him to be repaired. He has avery nice Mig welder and was able to weld the pieces back together forme in a minute or two. Most of the time was spent setting up the welder.My point is a really good welding shop should be able to weld Zamac.NOT A MUFFLER SHOP. A professional welding shop. Both my repairs areover a year with no problems.

[ChrisandJudy]

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Re: Searching for carriage partsPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Wed Jun 27, 2007 6:10 pm ((PDT))

One thing to keep in mind, a lot of these Zamak part are available viaClausing and often the new stuff is cheaper than the parts selling onebay.

The leadscrew support at the tail stock end is a common failure point.

Other common failure points include the gear cage in the apron andthough it's not a Zamak part, the change gear yokes seem to crack a lot.I assume people are just doing something really dumb to break the yokes.

My 10-F has a shop built leadscrew support and apron gear cage made fromaluminum. Both work well and I have no complaints.

The Craftsman 12" I'm going through came to me with every Zamak part inthe apron other than the halfnuts broken. It was a mess. I used Ebay asa parts source for the repairs.

Brett Jones

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NOTE TO FILE: The following message in atlas_craftsman was off subjectbut has good information on hand scraping a lathe bed.

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Re: Any one have experence rebuilding the Quick change gear box?Posted by: "pete_mclaughlin_93555" goldassayerx~xxverizon.netDate: Sun Jul 1, 2007 9:16 am ((PDT))

I have an atlas 10f with a 54 inch bed. The way to test is to put markingcompound on the surface of the bed and invert the bed on a large surfaceplate. Move the bed back and forth by 1/2 inch then turn it over on a workbench and view the results.

From this you will know where the wear is located. Put the bed back on thesurface plate and check it with feeler gages to determine the amount ofwear. I used a chinese 2ft by 3ft surface plate to check my lathe and thenhand scraped the bed back into alignment with the surface plate. Use alarge angle plate mounted on the surface plate to hold the lathe bed edgesat right angles to the top of the lathe bed while checking the wear on theedges. Then scrape the sides parallel with each other and at right anglesto the top of the bed to get your lathe bed back to factory condition. Onmy lathe the bottom of the bed was not worn enough to require any work.

After doing this on my lathe I found that the wear on the saddle hadpushed the lead screw down by 0.025 when engaged with the half nut. I usedMoglice to lift the saddle back up to 0.005 above the centerline betweenthe head stock and tail stock support points and ended up the a niceworking lathe again.

Hand scraping the lathe takes a lot of hours. This was my first scrapingeffort and it turned out well. If you have never scraped before, get the

video on scraping from www.machinerepair.com I found it really shortensthe learning curve to see it done.

Have funPete

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Re: Increasing spindle bore [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Thu Aug 16, 2007 4:49 am ((PDT))

kiramunchx~xxsympatico.ca writes:> Has anybody drilled or bored the spindle of their 12" atlas/craftsman> to about 1"? It's roughly .917 in stock configuration and 1" bore is> such a handy hole to have. Thanx

You sure about that bore? If you are, someone has already bored out yourspindle, and the Morse #3 taper is holding on less than a half inch of itslength. How do your centers run/hold?

Atlas made the spindle bore 1/32" over 3/4", which allows passing 3/4"stock easily. They could have made it larger, and fitted a Morse #4 taper.They could also have increased the swing, and the center-to-centerdistance, and made a larger lathe overall.

Had Atlas felt that the spindle could handle a larger bore, I'm guessingthey might have given it one. I will say, though, that when the Atlaslathes were produced there was less attention paid to spindle bore thanthere is today.

So, maybe you can go a bit larger. Before you take it to over an inch,you'll want to do some careful measuring and thinking.

John Martin

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Re: Increasing spindle borePosted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

A #3 Morse taper has a large diameter of 0.937, so I'd guess he measuredat the headstock end and didn't know there was a taper there (I've metplenty of people who didn't). I would suggest to the OP to measure at theback end of the spindle and to check the bore all the way through with apiece of bar stock. Also, if the measurement is indeed unusual, try toexamine the bore to look for tooling marks from drilling or boring.

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Re: Increasing spindle borePosted by: "kiramunchx~xxsympatico.ca"

Date: Fri Aug 17, 2007 6:38 am ((PDT))

I did not realize that the spindle bore was tapered and with someonementioning that the bottoms of keys were struck after boring, I thinkI will leave well enough alone! Thanx guys for the replies. I am brandspanking new to the forum and have just picked up a 12" craftsman circa1952. Thanx again

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Re: Quick-Change Installation [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat Sep 1, 2007 10:50 am ((PDT))

ebrucehunter wrote:> I have owned a 1930's 10" Atlas lathe for about 48 years. I am sort of> the second owner, as the man who bought the shop tools from the> original purchaser's estate wanted only the woodworking tools and sold> me the lathe. Over most of the subsequent years I have wanted a quick-> change, but always thought I would come across a 12" lathe with a quick-> change, and buy it as a replacement. But now, I have developed a> sentimental attachment to this lathe and plan to keep it. My question> is, if I bought a quick-change from a later model lathe, is it going to> be reasonably practicable to adapt it to my old Atlas? My lathe has> the 5/8", un-slotted lead screw (without power crossfeed). Could I> simply machine a bushing to adapt a quick-change from a lathe with 3/4"> leadscrew?

I think, maybe. Adapting the leadscrew is not likely to be the bigproblem. Yours is a "D" model, and I don't know how much is differentthere. Probably not much, but just somthing to worry over. The entiredrive train from the just below the spindle gear is replaced in thischangeover, so make sure you get the reversing tumbler and the "harp"bracket that holds the gear train. You can use your change gears to setup metric and special threads that the QC won't provide with the normalsettings, so keep them.

> What kind of problems are likely to be encountered in adapting the> left side reversing mechanism, etc. I will value comments> and suggestions from those who have been through this.

This is all part of the QC mechanism, and it should bolt onto most of thesame brackets as the change-gear harp. The cover plates over the gearsare totally different, however. But, those are not critical to making thelathe run.

I did one of these conversions on a 10" "F" model (3/4" keyed leadscrew,with power crossfeed, etc.) and I had to fiddle with the index plate wherethe reversing lever detents were. This may have been due to the mountingposition on the lathe, or wear in the gears (all used parts, but in

excellent condition). It ran much quieter after adjusting that, but stilltypically noisy like an Atlas.

Jon

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Big Problem With Stuck Carriage [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Dave Grammer" DaveGrammerx~xxcox.netDate: Sun Sep 9, 2007 7:37 am ((PDT))

Hello all. I have been reading posts for a while regarding removing theapron from the carriage. Here is the problem from the beginning.

My brother (owner of the lathe) and I were facing off some pipe caps usingthe power cross feed. We were not using a heavy cut for this operation.Without warning the crossfeed became bound up and everything moving cameto a halt. After shutting off the power, I tried to reverse the spindle tomaybe back out of the problem and see what was wrong. That part workedto the point of being able to unmesh the power crossfeed. Now, the spindleand the crossfeed will function but, I cannot get the handwheel totraverse. I cannot move the carriage up and down the bed by any means.

It appears that the carriage is still connected to the lead screw somehow.I would like to know if there is some way to take the apron mounted gearsoff and remove the apron without removing the lead screw at the same time.

Thank you in advance for any help.

Dave, in Kansas

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Re: Big Problem With Stuck CarriagePosted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Sun Sep 9, 2007 8:26 am ((PDT))

It sounds as though something in the traverse gears is messed up.

I'd take off the tailstock and remove the screws holding the tail end ofthe leadscrew to the bed (and the sctscrews holding the leadscrew to theclutch on the QC box, if you have one). If you can pull the leadscrewthrough a apron you're good to drop the apron, if not you can see if youcan pull the whole carriage assembly towards the tailstock with theleadscrew.

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Re: Big Problem With Stuck CarriagePosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.com

Date: Sun Sep 9, 2007 8:27 am ((PDT))

The screw pases through a gear mounted to the apron. This gear has a keyin it. I'd guess this key sheared off and it's bound up between the ODof the screw and the ID of the gear.

If you can't slide the screw out of the apron, take the apron and thescrew off as one part.

Remove the screw support at the tail stock end and move the carriage tothat end. It should carry the screw with it. Then remove the apron fromthe carriage.

Brett Jones

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Re: Big Problem With Stuck CarriagePosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Sep 9, 2007 10:27 am ((PDT))

You've probably partially sheared off the key in the leadscrew or brokenthe bracket that carries the carriage gear train, or possibly both. Youwill probably have to disengage the carriage gear train to move thecarriage, and you need to do that to get the apron off.

The left end of the leadscrew just slips into the QC or reversing box. Soremove the right bracket of the L.S. The carriage may be able to travelnow to the right, pulling the LS out from the left end. If so, you can nowdrop the apron by removing the two large Phillips screws on top of thecarriage.

If not, remove the 3 small Phillips screws around the carriage handwheel.This will loosen the leadscrew and the carriage gear train. Also loosenthe large Phillips screws on the carriage, and you should have enoughclearance between the pinion and the rack to slide the carriage to theright.

You most likely have a mess in there, and several parts will need to bereplaced. Some people have had good luck making a brass or steel hub forthe bevel gear that slides on the leadscrew, then boring out the existinggear and using Loctite or pins to fit the gear onto the new hub.

Jon

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Jumping out of back gear [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "robert fox" thefoxesden3x~xxpeak.orgDate: Fri Oct 19, 2007 1:55 pm ((PDT))

I have a 618-101-07301 which has been working great for a long time.

About a month ago I took it apart and painted it and cleaned it up. WhileI was at it I replaced a few gib screws and the index pin. At any rateafter reassembly I am having the back gear handle jump out of engagement.It does this very slowly taking perhaps a full minute to jump. I havechecked pulley alignment and tension and they seem to be ok. Jumps outquicker if I am making a cut rather than idliing. Feed screw engagementmakes no diff. ANY IDEAS THAT MAY HELP?

Bob

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Re: Jumping out of back gearPosted by: "Rob Purdy" kb7wnzx~xxhotmail.comDate: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:27 pm ((PDT))

You need to adjust the throw on the handle. It's not engaging the gearsufficiently. BTDT had the same problem!

Rob

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Re: Split Nut for 10" F series [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:55 am ((PST))

mclkev33 wrote:> I was given an Atlas lathe a few years ago for christmas. The> previous owner said he ran the carriage into the headstock. This I> would guess is the reason for the worn threads on the split nut. I> was wondering where I could find a replacement for the split nut. I> also have alot of play in my compound rest assembly. I think the nut> that travels along the carriage saddle screw is worn. Can I get a new> one of those. Thanks

You might want to check in with the Atlas/Clausing Service Center at:http://www.atlas-press.com/service.htm

They don't do internet orders, so you will need to call them. Before theycan tell you if they have the part (and how much), you'll need a partnumber. It will be most helpful if you find the serial number on yourlathe first, so that they can ID the part numbers on their diagrams.

Before you give up on the cross-slide nut, do yourself a favor and puta washer under the bolt that anchors it to the cross-slide. I hadunacceptable play, and was getting ready to fab a new one when I took agood look at the parts and realized that the unsupported short 1/4" boltholding it together was the source of the wobble.

Good luck,William A.

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New Lathe with a broken Gear Case [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Colin Cheese" cheesecolinx~xxaol.comDate: Mon Nov 19, 2007 5:58 am ((PST))

Hi, I just joined this group having bought an Atlas 10 inch lathe off alocal farmer - am in the UK. It runs, looks complete and is not rusty, butvery dirty. Am planning to strip and refurb it but probably not a fullrestoration at this stage.

I found a parts list in files which is going to be very useful -thanks.

The main problem with it is that the Gear Case (10F-11?) is broken. Whatis the situation with this part? Are they obtainable or has anyonesuccessfully made a replacement? Advice would be appreciated.

regardsColin

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Re: New Lathe with a broken Gear CasePosted by: "Don Smith" airxxxwolfx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Nov 19, 2007 8:04 am ((PST))

Hi Colin: Welcome to the group. The gearbox on my 10" Atlas lathe wasbroken in several pieces and I tried to get a replacement off eBay but theprices they were going for was more than I was willing to pay, so I mademy own instead. It was actually very easy to make and is much strongerthan the original.

I "glued" all the broken pieces of the broken gearcase back together withJB Weld so I could take accurate measurements to make the new gearcase.I cut small pieces of steel plate on a scroll saw, and simply clamped thefirst 2 pieces to a block of wood to hold them in position for migwelding, then kept making and adding a piece at a time until it wasfinished.

The piece that the gear spindle goes through was machined from a bolt. Isimply cut off both ends of the bolt and bored a slightly smaller diameterhole through it than I needed for the gear spindle and finished off thehole with the correct size reamer.

I didn`t bore a hole in the new gearcase for the leadscrew to pass throughbecause I was in a hurry and I don`t really do anything on my lathe whereI would need the leadscrew, but at some point in time I will remove thegearcase and bore the hole for the leadscrew. Anyway, here is a link toa phoho of my new gearcase installed on my 10" Atlas.

http://tinyurl.com/24l7r8

Don

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Re: New Lathe with a broken Gear CasePosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Mon Nov 19, 2007 10:05 am ((PST))

The part is available new from Clausing.

At some point this part on my 10-F was replaced with a shop built partmade from a block of aluminum. If you have the tools, building one isnot that hard. It's not a precision part.

Brett Jones

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NOTE TO FILE: The following conversation on Atlas spindle removalcomes up periodically. Sometimes an owner's experiences and techniquesdiffer a bit. For more on the subject, also see the thread "Timken Removal& Fitting" starting Jan 12, 2004 which is found above in this file.

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Spindle Removal Help [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "kippershd" kippersx~xxcomcast.netDate: Sun Dec 23, 2007 8:59 am ((PST))

Hi All, I am new to machining and new to this group. Great site - Thankyou.

I have an Atlas model 3981. I have been trying to get a good surfacefinish and have had no luck with AL or SS. I have been using carbideinserts. I have tried running the jibs tight, spinning fast - slow, highfeed - low feed. can't get it right. So, I tried to adjust the spindle bytightening collar B. That did not seem to do anything. Even tightening itbeyond the 1/16th of a turn. The spindle would still turn very free andeasy. I then decided to remove and inspect the bearings.

This is where I get into trouble. I have removed collar B, gear M, key Nand collar O. I have loosened both set screws in collar L and the setscrew in gear D. Gear D can now slide on the spindle. The stepped pulleyis loose and will slide left and right. The Spindle is still as tight asit was before all of this. I have covered the gear train end of thespindle and tapped with a hammer - nothing moves.

Am I missing something? Do I need a bigger hammer?

Thank you for any help,Kip

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Re: Spindle Removal HelpPosted by: "vance_wiley" vance_wileyx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Dec 23, 2007 10:15 am ((PST))

Kip: I have had the same experience with my 101.28910 that you are having.In my case I found the small bearing cone at the left end of the spindlewas simply tight on the spindle. It appears you have covered all theimportant items to loosen/remove, and if the gear D is free the only wayto remove the spindle is to drive it out. I used a deadblow hammer andonly hit it with increasing intensity and no more, Mine finally movedbefore I became too concerned.

Note that there is a key under gear D and this must remain free to preventyour driving gear D into the casting and possibly breaking teeth orcausing other damage. The Atlas instructions recommend two blocks of woodbetween D and the casting to prevent this but if it is loose the blocksseem unnecessary. The inner cones of the bearings simply fit the spindleVERY tightly. I think this is a good thing.

There has been some discussion on this forum about how tightly the largecone fits, including the need to have the bearing pressed on the spindleand heating the cone to expand it. With the hollow spindle it might bepossible to chill the spindle by passing some cold fluid thru it - theelectronics types use a can of cold spray on circuit boards and componentsand this might work. Possibly using Break Free or similar solvents wouldhelp. Protect the threads for collar B when driving the spindle.

During reassembly, I found tightening the set screw in gear D caused thegear to move just a bit to the left - the tapered side of the set screwwas just engaging the side of the deformation in the spindle andtightening the angled set screw caused the gear to move left. I finallyjust had to accept the position, although I would have preferred it to bea tad farther right.

Best of luck,Vance

[later message:] Also - if you jump to messages #14274, 76, and 98(and associated messages on that thread) there are some good ideas andcomments on spindle removal. Louis has some great comments in #17276.

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Re: Spindle Removal HelpPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sun Dec 23, 2007 11:40 am ((PST))

I always get nervous when it comes to hammering spindles. Have you thought

of making up a simple puller with a short length of pipe over the spindlenose, a couple of pieces of flat bar or large washers, and a length of say1/2" screwed rod through the spindle ? Mind the key doesn't jam.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Spindle Removal Help - done - ThanksPosted by: "kippershd" kippersx~xxcomcast.netDate: Sun Dec 23, 2007 9:23 pm ((PST))

Vance, Thanks for your help. and the other message numbers. That wasmy issue. The spindle was hung up on the rear inner race. A littlecleaning and a many taps with a hammer (i did protect the spindle withwood) and the spindle came out. Everything looked great - went backtogether - and I was able to adjust it per the procedure in the manual.The surface finish was greatly improved; but, I think I still need to gowork on speed, bit type, and learn how to grind a bit.

Thanks again for the help.Kip

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Boing! where did that go? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Steve Mayall" stevemayallx~xxfastmail.fmDate: Fri Feb 8, 2008 10:12 pm ((PST))

You have to laugh...

Well I got the 'ole headstock gear/bearing assembly out and turned andpulled the locking pin out of the bull wheel. It wasn't too hard. Whatalso came out was the small pin that pops into the two indents in thelocking pin which fell through the hole in the bull wheel into the plasticpulley system. Despite a tremendous fight put up by the pin, which I thinkwas stuck to a bit of grease inside, I managed to shake it back out.

Sense of humour reaches high peak now as frustration builds up... Troubleis, I can't see how to get the darn thing back in again and hold it downwhile inserting the locking pin. If you can imagine it, there's a holeperpendicular to the bull wheel which accomodates the locking pin. There'sanother hole inside this hole in line with the bull wheel which contains aspring. I can get the small pin back in and hold it down with ascrewdriver, but then the screwdriver's in the way. If there are anyblinding flashes of insight out there, I'd be very grateful for them asmy lathe no longer works and I'm feeling pretty dense.

Cheers

Steve

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Re: Boing! where did that go?Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com"Date: Sat Feb 9, 2008 12:55 pm ((PST))

I hope by now you have that dreaded pin, spring and follower back in yourlathe. If your lathe is the 10 or 12 inch model watch out for the grub(set) screw in the main cone set of pulleys. That is NOT a set (grub)screw but is in there to allow you to oil the cone pulleys when they mustturn on the spindle when in back gear.

So when you oil up your lathe take that screw out and put some oil downthe hole and replace the screw (Not tight, just to seal off that hole).Many of our "old" lathes have never been oiled at that place and you findwhen going into back gear that the pulleys will not spin on the spindlesince crud, rust what ever has sealed the cone pulleys to the spindle.

If nothing else be sure and get the Atlas book "How to run a lathe" andit spells out all the oil and grease points you should lube up at everyuse. (Some points say, once a week, but in our use if like mine it maysit for several weeks between use. Therefore I oil every oil point beforeeach use.

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Re: Boing! where did that go? Fixed it!Posted by: "Steve Mayall" stevemayallx~xxfastmail.fmDate: Sun Feb 10, 2008 6:58 am ((PST))

Hi All: Thanks very much for all your replies. I managed to get the darnpin back in again and the locking pin inserted. While I was there, I tookthe grub screw out of the pulley and dropped some oil down it as advised.

The procedure for re-inserting the small pin inside the hole is asfollows:

1) Undo the grub screw on the side of the bull wheel and slide the bullwheel towards the chuck end, creating a gap between the bull gear and thepulleys. You will see a small cut-out on the edge (pulley side) of thebull wheel above the locking pin hole. There is a hole in the bull wheelwhich lines up with the small pin hole. Someone has thought this out!

2) Get a 2.5mm welding rod (or similar) and scratch off the flux for acouple of inches. Insert this into the cut-out hole, leaving enough spacefor the little pin to fit in.

3) Using fine nose pliers, insert the small pin in its hole. It won't godown far, as it's spring loaded. Press down on the top of the pin with thewelding rod, holding it in place. Let go with the pliers and push the pindown with the rod.

4) Insert the locking pin upside down until it is past the small pin andremove the welding rod.

5) Rotate the locking pin until a very satisfying click is heard. This isthe small pin locating itself in the indents in the locking pin.

6) Drink more beer than you can really manage.

It's all back together now and working! Some of you will see your ownideas above :-)

CheersSteve

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Lining up the tailstock [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "Dan Margolien" danmargolienx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Feb 10, 2008 7:10 pm ((PST))

I'm having trouble getting the tailstock lined up on the chuck centerline.It is too high. How important is leveling and setting the machine?

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.net" cbrumbelowx~xxcomcast.netDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 8:53 am ((PST))

If the problem is with the tailstock and not your technique, anythingyou turn between centers will have a taper related to its length and theamount of misalignment. Likewise, any time you attempt to drill a piecemounted to the headstock (chucked or on the faceplate) the hole will beless than perfect -- slightly oversize and/or tapered. You should beattempting to align a known good center in the known clean tailstocksocket with a known good center in the known clean headstock center. And,the tailstock ram should be drawn as far into the tailstock as possiblewithout losening the center. And, the ram and the tailstock should bothbe tightened using the clamps provided. Both centers should be tight intheir sockets.

See:http://www.brownells.com/aspx/NS/store/ProductDetail.aspx?p=694&title=LATHE%20CENTERING%20BUTTONSfor some tooling to help with the task.

Charles

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "n5kzw" n5kzwx~xxarrl.netDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:35 am ((PST))

Lathe centering buttons are very easy to make on the lathe.

Regards,Ed

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "n5kzw" n5kzwx~xxarrl.netDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 9:48 am ((PST))

Dan, that is rather an odd condition. First, I would true up the centerand check the tailstock to make sure there is no dirt or dings in thetailstock ram taper. Then I would check the bottom of the tailstockcasting to make sure there isn't any dirt or dings that would elevatethe tailstock.

If that checks out, try a straight edge on the bed to make sure it isn'tbowed up in the center and that there are no dings in the bed to lift thetailstock casting. If all of that checks out, then you may need to startshimming under the headstock.

It is not necessary to level your lathe. It is very important that theways be dead flat when the lathe is bolted to its stand. The easiest wayfor most people to accomplish this task is to use a machinist's level(which results in the bed being leveled).

To test your lathe, try turning a stout bar between centers along its fulllength. Then accurately measure both ends of the bar. If both ends havethe same diameter, you are good to go. (Don't worry about the center ofthe bar, it will end up fatter.)

Regards,Ed

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "ron Pat" ronpat0471x~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:32 pm ((PST))

Dan the first thing is to make sure you're using a solid center in thetail stock. Not a bearing type center. A lot of people don't believe howmuch trouble they cause. Especially the ones most of us can afford.

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Re: Lining up the tailstock

Posted by: "Jake" jake09305x~xxbellsouth.netDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:34 pm ((PST))

Amen to Charles' note.

On to the leveling question...the longer and heaver the lathe the moreimportant it becomes. The lathe is built and adjusted by the manufactureron a flat level surface with no stresses on the bed. You would like toreplicate all those conditions in your shop.

That said, I suppose you are talking of an Atlas 618 sized lathe in thisgroup. In mounting the smaller lathes on a wooden work bench there is adanger of warping the lathe bed by pulling down on the mounting screwsagainst a stout table top that is not perfectly flat and going to staythat way forever!! Even a 4,000 pound Monarch will deform if the concretemounting surface is not made perfectly flat and level. Wooden work benchesare subject to warping and twisting over time.

If you are fortunate to have a metal table, level the top then shim andlevel the lathe in both directions before tightening the screws. Checkagain. Incidentally, use a machinist level, not a carpenter's level.

Jake

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "Hank" n1ltvx~xxyahoo.com n1ltvDate: Mon Feb 11, 2008 6:18 pm ((PST))

"Chris M" chrism3667x~xxyahoo.com wrote:> I was of the persuasion that the heavier lathes are> more prone to warpage then a small one...

I think the thinking is that the bigger lathes (size and weight) are proneto distortion from their own weight (when not level); and the smallerones, due to their being less rigid, and due to the fact that they'reoften mounted to wood topped benches, are prone to distortion from beingtorqued down to a surface that's nonplanar to start with, or may easilybecome so with changes in humidity or just plain aging.

Jake, you did a fine job with your explanation.

Hank

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "Mike" oldtoolx~xxfvi.netDate: Wed Feb 13, 2008 9:30 am ((PST))

Hi Dan, I had the same situation on aa Atlas 12" that I moved along lastyear. The tailstock was 1/8" too high. I have no idea why. Maybe it came

from a donor machine?

Offset is easy since you can adjust that. Too high is a different matter.If you shim the headstock, you unseat the gear train. The only remedy Icould figure was to mill the base of the tailstock. Start with thebuttons to measure the amount of height mismatch, and mill accordingly.

I chose to sell my lathe as was (With full disclosure). There are toomany good lathes out there to waste time fiddling with a problematicmachine. Do you want to be a machinist or a mechanic?

Mike

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "Dan Margolien" danmargolienx~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Feb 14, 2008 9:19 am ((PST))

Well- I took the tail stock and carriage off, and stoned the ways andgibs, and all surfaces. I then stoned the tapered centers. I putcenters in the headstock and tail stock, and the set over was off, butthe vertical alignment looked fine.

I then put the 3 jaw chuck on and put in a drill blank and used a testindicator and base off the ways and found only .001 runout of the chuckand only about .001 lackof parallel in 4". Then I put the drill blankin the 3 jaw chuck in the tail stock and was within .002" for height.

So, it appears I had burrs in the system and aggravated the problem.

I set up to bore a hole and did not have any drill wobble. I thinkall is back to normal.

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Re: Lining up the tailstockPosted by: "Jake" jake09305x~xxbellsouth.net jake09305Date: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:54 pm ((PST))

Dan: Not to dampen your enthusiasm...three-jaw chucks and the likes canvary all over the place depending the on the diameter to which they areset. I have "set-true" chuck that I can zero in at a half inch and it isout .005 at one inch. There is nothing accurate about a three jaw chuck...it is just convenient. There are accurate three-jaw chucks but theycost more than my shop!!

Now, you can set a four-jaw as accurately as you want but it is timeconsuming. I wrote a one page rant about chucks in the Home Shop MachinistJuly/August 1996 if you got a copy. If you are interested I will sendyou a copy.

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Re: vibration on 12" lathe [atlas_craftsman]

Posted by: "jim_popa" jim_popax~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Feb 25, 2008 10:11 am ((PST))

markus fitz wrote:> hi guys, i own a craftsman 12 inch lathe and like it just fine,the problem is has vibration when i run it. i was wondering ifanyone has similar problems and what the fix would be. thought aboutmaking new motor and drive pulley, the outside ones only since themotor seems to bounce just a little bit. if so, any advice on makingthe pullies.thanks <

Markus: Is your lathe the mod. 101.07403? If so, vibration is practicallybuilt into the machine. I'm talking about the one that has the entiremotor/countershaft assembly hanging on the back, and has two mountingholes at the headstock end and only one at the back.

I've owned a couple of 6" A/C's, a 10" and two 12" models, and the oneI described above was the worst to get a good finish on because anyvibration reverberated from motor/countershaft to the bed and back.I put the segmented belts on, tightened everything and still bad finish.Single phase motors inherently put a 60 cycle "pulse" into the drivetrain and can affect finish, but that wasn't the main problem.

The motor has to move up and down to change speeds (belt position)and tighten the belt so you cannot just clamp it in position.....Mysolution was to cut a piece of 4 X 6 about 6" long and cut a taperso that I could wedge it by hand under the motor plate, AFTERadjustments and belts were tightened.

IMMEDIATE improvement, and I could occasionally get a mirror finishon aluminum. Your mileage may vary.

Jim

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JB Weld [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "jtiggr" jtiggr713x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Feb 24, 2008 6:51 pm ((PST))

This is a two part question (pun intended):

Regarding JB Weld: I am repairing an iron casting in a couple of places.

1. One location is the drilled & tapped hole where a brass machinescrew fits. Or should fit, but doesn't because the side is broken out.The thread is non-standard for today, so I can't get a tap for it.Therefore, what release agent can I use on the screw to prevent the JBWeld from sticking when I glob it on the area of the casting needingthe repair? I'm thinking a light coating of oil or grease. Someone haseven suggested soapy water. Any suggestions?

2. Another area has external threads, and again, the side is broken off.That one is simple since I can put the JB Weld on without problem, andintend to use my 618 to chase the old threads while creating new threadson the hardened JB Weld. I'm intending to use a HSS tool for this, but

are there any cautions? I.E.: go slower, go faster, cut lighter, cutheavier???

Thanks for the help guys.Travis

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Re: JB WeldPosted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.comDate: Sun Feb 24, 2008 7:58 pm ((PST))

I'd try silicone spray. Even if it sticks a little, you should beable to unscrew it. You might experiment on extra screws beforehand.

It machines somewhere in between plastic and metal. The key is to createa good bonding surface, so the entire patch doesn't just pop off. Lightsandblasting or beadblasting is ideal, tumbling is good, a wire brush(power or hand) will work if you can't be too aggressive on the wholepart. Also, if you can create an interlocking "key" ie an undercut thatis filled with the epoxy, it greatly strengthens the assembly.

I assume you are using the traditional JB weld, the overnight type, butfor quick repairs and experiments, you might want to try using JBQuik,their rapid setting version that is ready to go in less than 30 minutes.I think it's a nearly identical material with a hardener that's fasteracting. I often use a little JB Quik or some superglue to hold anassembly together and in position, then add larger amounts of the JB Weldto provide the real strength.

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Re: JB WeldPosted by: "Elton E. (Tony) Clark" eltonclarkx~xxgmail.comDate: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:37 am ((PST))

*JB Weld is a valuable resource. The family vacuum, a Hoover with theself propel feature quit "propelling" last week. The tech at the vacstore showed me the mount points of the plastic cased transmission hadfailed, probably due to a drop or bouncing over threshholds. Newtransmission installed: $179!!! I gathered it up, took it home,slathered the breaks with JB Weld and twisted wire to hold it in place.Runs like new!!!! *

Tony

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Re: JB WeldPosted by: "dperras" dperrasx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Feb 25, 2008 1:48 pm ((PST))

Hi Travis: I have a little experience with diferent types of epoxy andrelease papers and have found that teflon tape wrapped around the screwwill do the trick. As always, try the method you wish to use in a trialrun to test your results.

RegardsDave

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Fixing dings in Ways? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "borne2fly" borne2flyx~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Feb 27, 2008 4:04 pm ((PST))

Is there a way to fill in all the dings in the Ways? I've seen a numberof lathe beds that had very little wear but I didn't buy because of allthe dings. JB Weld? Epoxy? Solder? I realize a lot of it is just cosmeticand doesn't effect the accuracy of the machine, but I've always beencurious if these things can be patched.

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Re: Fixing dings in Ways?Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Feb 27, 2008 6:17 pm ((PST))

No, don't do any of these things. Just use a hard Arkansas stone to gentlyremove any high spots around the dings. You won't be able to get epoxiesto stick to a small ding in a lathe bed, and you don't want to take a hugeblowtorch to a precision cast iron part to get it hot enough to solder.

Big gouges can be filled with special gouge filler material, such as isavailable from Devitt machinery, the US reps for Moglice, the castable wayliner material. But, no Atlas bed is really big enough to need suchtechniques.

Jon

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Re: Fixing dings in Ways?Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Wed Feb 27, 2008 8:22 pm ((PST))

Yes. I have filled dings and scrapes with epoxy. Regular, clear epoxy.You have to wash with solvent a couple times, but then you can fill it in,letting it mound up a bit.

After curing, you use a "burr file" (a chunk of single cut file that youhave rubbed on an oilstone to knock off the sharp tips of the teeth). Thatwill take off anything that sticks up, but stop cutting and just glidewhen the surface is smooth.

I agree with others that for small dings it isn't worth the effort, and

may not even work well. But it has worked well for me on some gouges thatare evidence that one of the previous owners of my machine was some sortof cretinous lout. You still see them but you can't feel them. The fixhas lasted several years now.

JT

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Cross slide pivot pins [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "porscheman54" james.ricex~xxgmail.comDate: Sat Mar 8, 2008 8:05 am ((PST))

Does anyone know of a good method of removing the pins from the crossslide tool post pivot? I've pulled the Allen head set screws but Ican't get the pins out to remove the pivot. I'm thinking they are eitherrusted in place or deformed by over-tightening of the set screws.

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Re: Cross slide pivot pinsPosted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Sat Mar 8, 2008 9:36 am ((PST))

The only thing that will hold them is crud/rust. If your compound willswivel with the screws out, work it around while lifting as the pinsare tapered on the inside and will push themselves out eventually.Kroil, Kroil, Kroil :)

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Re: Cross slide pivot pinsPosted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Sat Mar 8, 2008 9:40 am ((PST))

I've had some luck pulling them out using a neodymium magnet on the endof a brass tube. It can be used to help encourage them towards you whileyou're working the compound base around and pulling up.

For *real* fun try pulling the the same sort of pins from the nose of aBridgeport shaping attachment.

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Re: Cross slide pivot pinsPosted by: "porscheman54" james.ricex~xxgmail.comDate: Sat Mar 8, 2008 9:57 am ((PST))

I'll keep trying to work it loose and keep soaking it in penetrating oil.My compound is really, really stiff from rust. Everything else loosenedup with some 20w and exercise, but the compound swivel doesn't seem tohave been moved in ages. Worse case, I can pick up another on eBay.

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Handles [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "porscheman54" james.ricex~xxgmail.comDate: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:40 pm ((PDT))

After unpacking a new carriage assembly from eBay that was shipped with anintact cross-slide handle and unpacked with the small end of the handlesnapped cleanly off, I have been considering other options.

Has anyone else fitted more durable handles or hand wheels to their 618lathes? Since both the cross-slide and compound handles are broken on mylathe and I'm not really looking forward to writing a check to Sears orClausing for almost $200 for the handles, I'm open to suggestions.

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Re: HandlesPosted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com"Date: Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:54 pm ((PDT))

i made a compound for an antique lathe & turned up a copy of crftsmndouble ended handle out of mild steel .turned body & locktited handlesin ....old files ground /honed like wood chisels & used w/ scraping cutturned to rounds just fine ....run back/side end of tool holder up closeto work or make a decent rest out of angle.....hand turning was common150 yrs ago .....if u do this ,check in for more details...one must beCAREFUL , starting w/ handles for tools

best wishesdocn8as

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Re: Back Gears [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Sat Apr 5, 2008 2:33 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 4/5/08 lipscomb_jeffx~xxyahoo.com writes:> I have a CRAFTSMAN/ATLAS 10107403 Dates to 1951. The small back gear> was broken when I got it. I replaced it. When you engage the back> gear everything locks up. The small gear on the head stock can be> locked to the spindle or spin free. Letting it spine free the back> will move lots of noise. Lock it to the spindle and nothing moves.> What is the back gear for and how do you adjust it. JEFF

There are two gears on the spindle. The large one at the right end (thebull gear) is keyed to the spindle, and thus locked to it. The small gearis connected to the step pulley, which spins free on the spindle. Thereare screws in the pulley which look like setscrews, but are really oilhole plugs. Remove and oil regularly - that's how oil gets to thebearings inside the pulley and allows it to spin.

The step pulley and small gear may be locked to the spindle by the pinin the side of the bull gear. Push the pin in (to the left) to lock, pull

out to let the pulley and gear freewheel.

To run in direct drive (high speeds), push the bull gear pin in and rotatethe back gears out of mesh with the back gear lever.

To run in back gear drive (low speeds), pull the bull gear pin out androtate the back gear assembly into mesh with the spindle gears. Drive willbe from the step pulley to the small spindle gear (which spins freelyon the spindle) to the large back gear to the small back gear to the bullgear. The step pulley and the small attached gear will spin much fasterthan the spindle.

John Martin

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Re: New guy here... [ACTUALLY BACKLASH PROBLEM][atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Eric Crum" ericthenorse2002x~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:29 am ((PDT))

> Are you sure about the condition of the brass nut on the cross slide> screw? The slop can be snugged up to some extent with the nut on> handle.

Yes, I am sure... I started by removing all of the slack in the leadscrew, then, when I still had lots of slop, I pulled the cross slideapart. The nut looks like either it was not properly lubed, or itsucked a piece of metal into it... When I thread it onto the lead screwby hand, it is verry loose and wobbly. I get about 1/4 turn of slop inthe handle before the slide moves... The one for the top slide is ingreat shape with only a little play. I have the motor set up now, andI am itching to start turning big round things into little roundthings, but I just can't bring myself to re-assemble a broken tool.. :)

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Re: New guy here...Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:55 pm ((PDT))

There will always be backlash in that feed, and while 25 thousandths ishigh, it is not excessive. I'd suggest working with it as is. It's nota big job to replace it if you later decide it's necessary.

John Martin

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Re: New guy here...Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" n8as1x~xxaol.comDate: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:18 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 4/12/2008, ericthenorse2002x~xxsbcglobal.net writes:> 25 thousandths is a lot of backlash.... I have already determined that

it is too much for me to deal with... I am kind of picky that way... Inaddition to that, it also has quite a gritty feel to it. Add those twothings together, and I can't deal with it... Especially if the parts toremedy it are still available... :) <

john martin's advice was sound., as always .....lash means nothing goingin same direction, .....when backing off, simply go beyond the lash& back to the number desired.." .it aint CNC "...

that said go to it ....! it's ur machine ...be advised tho, that there iswear on the SCREW as well as nut AND that wear is NOT EVEN, more in thewell used "sweet zone"....so u will only improve the lash somewhat....& there is tolerance in the nut /screw as manufactured ( 5-10 thouto add ), SO, if u REALLY want to approach zero, the accepted remedyis to take a cleanup cut on the screw & single point an acme nut thread.....i have singlepointed a 7/16 square thrd nut in the past when cleaningup lash in a compound on a 1892 prentice bro 15 in ......& that combinedw/a screw cleanup gives a fairly tight screw/nut .......a new factory nutwill help, but if u REALLY ARE PICKY ( & i can understand that ), theabove-mentioned route is the one to take.

best wishesdocn8as

PS been there.......1/2x10 alloy steel acme screw & brass nut from MSCfor a screw feed quick change attachment i made last year for a 1000#lever feed mill arrived w/ .010 built in tolerance slop .....i shudhave made both, & 20 yrs ago wud have .... but just got OLD & lazy.....of course, YOU cud get a nut on the minus side & a screw on theplus side & be home free, or near free .....i didn't.

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Re: New guy here...Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Sun Apr 13, 2008 4:10 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Doc. As you said, backlash is justsomething you learn to work with - it'll always be there. Maybe he'llget really lucky and get the backlash down to .007" or so, so he canforget about it. As long as the parts he makes have a tolerance of+-.015", he'll be fine.

Just for the fun of it, I went downstairs and checked my own 6" lathe.0.025" on the cross slide, 0.020" on the compound. They've been that wayfor years. The Heald horizontal mill has about .045" on the X feed screwnear the ends, and only a bit more near the middle. It's a 7/8" x 10 tpiAcme screw, and I did recently pick up some taps so I can make a newbronze nut at some point. Because I, too, can be picky sometimes. Butthere's no great rush.

John Martin

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bearing oilers [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "mike j" xactdudex~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue May 6, 2008 7:58 am ((PDT))

Finally got the old 618 torn down and back together, cleaning thebearing(s) and straightening out the dust caps which loosened up thespindle for free turning.

Noticed that on the left bearing (timken) that the race covers the oilercompletely; on the right side there is a space just on the outside of therace which allows the oil to flow freely onto the bearing. Is one or theother correct or, has there been an incorrect bearing replaced at somepoint? Wwhen I re-assemled I notice no slack in or out, nor back andforth.

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Re: bearing oilersPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue May 6, 2008 9:06 am ((PDT))

Are you saying the oil can't flow down from the oiler at all? Or justthat it is a bit restricted?

There should be some felt in the bottom of the oiler to allow the oil todrip slowly. I have used white tennis shoe laces for wicks with goodresults. It is no problem as long as the oil is still able to drip fromthe oiler onto the bearing. If the path is totally blocked, then somethinghas been done that is wrong. Either the bearing hasn't fully seated downagainst the shoulder or the outer race is longer axially that the onedesigned to go there. It might be possible to make a little groove in thecasting to let the oil flow down.

You should be able to look (a bright light will help) in the left end pastthe little gear to see if the outer race is seated all the way downagainst the shoulder in the casting. A little crud in the bore could havejammed it so it couldn't seat completely. You will need a gear puller andsome steel discs of the right diameter to push the race out and then putit back in. The preload force from the spindle should be enough to drivethe outer race home if everything is clean.

Jon

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Fw: [atlas_craftsman] bearing oilersPosted by: "James Blackett" jamesrblackettx~xxbtopenworld.comDate: Tue May 6, 2008 9:40 am ((PDT))

Hi, I think that if you rotate the race covers you will find a gap that

the oilers can pass through; at least that's what's on my 10" Atlas.

James

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Spindle Re-Assembly Problem [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.comDate: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:01 pm ((PDT))

I've successfully removed the spindle from my 618 and cleaned all theparts nicely. I'm having a problem with re-assembly. I can't seem tofigure out why the two bearings won't seat fully in their races in theheadstock. It seems like either the fixed Timken bearing at the chuckend of the spendle has shifted on the spindle (toward the tailstockend) or the other bearing won't slide fully on the spindle. Eitherway, I've got a gap of approx. 1/4" that I need to close to the twobearings to seat properly. Help! Any body run across this problem andsolved it? Waiting for a helpful answer. Thanks.

Jonathan

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.comDate: Sun Jun 29, 2008 1:54 pm ((PDT))

"ajxnagy" wrote:> Check that all the slots line up when you are replacing the spindle.

I've done that. It almost seems like the bearing is too small to fitall the way onto the spindle. Should I be tapping it with a woodendowel to force it on?

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e: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "LouD31M066x~xxaol.com"Date: Sun Jun 29, 2008 2:41 pm ((PDT))

If it came apart so it will go back together...that is a given.Are you using replacement parts identical to originals?Are all burrs, dirt and crud taken care of?Are you using a little oil to ease things along?Is anything binding?Lay out parts so you can see sequence of assemblySooner or later the difficulty will resolve into a duh...works for me.

Louis

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "ajxnagy" ajxnagyx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Sun Jun 29, 2008 5:13 pm ((PDT))

Don't hit it with any thing but your hand. Have you tried tightening thecollar on the gear side of the spindle to try and seat the bearings - dothis gently - there is a procedure available that describes all of this- google atlas 618 belt change and see if you don't find the procedure.I have the procedure in a pdf file. I will send it to you if you can'tfind it.

AJ

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Jun 29, 2008 7:38 pm ((PDT))

Just in case it might help, the Atlas618Lathe group Files sectioncontains the file "Removing backgears and spindle on 618.doc"

Bruno

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.comDate: Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:29 am ((PDT))

I followed the instructions exactly as written. The spindle did not wantto come out easily, but it did eventually come out just as described inthe instructions. I can see the marks on the spindle where the bearing hadbeen, but it sure does not want to go back to that spot. Any otherthoughts from any one? Thanks.

Jonathan

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly ProblemPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Mon Jun 30, 2008 9:27 am ((PDT))

Jonathan: Would suggest you take it apart again, and 'dry assemble' thespindle on the bench with bearings visible where you can see what'shappening. As has been suggested check for burrs, measure the shaft andthe bearings, polish the surface with a bit of very fine emery paper ifneeded until you get a situation that the bearing will be a tight butmovable fit on the shaft. Make sure the surfaces are oiled. Wheneverything 'works' on the bench, take it apart and re-assemble it in theheadstock as per the instructions.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com

Date: Tue Jul 1, 2008 2:00 pm ((PDT))

The use of emery paper was the perfect solution. Unfortunately, I tookoff too much and now the bearing slides too far down the spindle beforemaking a tight fit. I'm so mortified by the whole thing I couldn't evenbring myself to use any choice words. Just shook my head in bewilderment.An extremly important lesson was learned by both me and my son as a resultof this excercise. Any suggestions on how I can recover from this?

Jonathan

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "Hugh Prescott" hughx~xxquincyhobby.comDate: Tue Jul 1, 2008 5:34 pm ((PDT))

Loctite bearing mount will fix that.Should be available at any good bearing supply house.

Hugh

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue Jul 1, 2008 9:13 pm ((PDT))

If it is like the 10 and 12" Atlas, it doesn't actually have to be a tightfit. The threaded collar on the back end of the spindle puts the wholespindle under tension between the bearings. As long as the inner race isnot a sloppy fit even when seated against the shoulder, you have nothingto worry about. Once the whole assembly is tightened with that collar,you will have no problem.

Jon

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.comDate: Wed Jul 2, 2008 6:37 am ((PDT))

Thanks Jon. I think that the bearing needs to fit snug on the spindleor under load the spindle would turn inside the bearing rather than thebearing turning with the spindle? Interestingly, Hugh's suggestion touse Loctite Bearing Mount is exactly what a retired shopteacher/machinerydealer friend told me to use. When I described my situtuation to him hechuckled and told me not to worry, he's seen this many times in his40+ years and Loctite Bearing Mount will fix it.

He also told me two other things: 1. he said if I ever want to take theLoctite fixed bearing off again I will need to heat it; and 2. Next time

I attempt something like this, do a little, try the fit, do a little,try the fit... I have a much healthier appreciation today than I hadyesterday for the sensitivitiy of the tolerances on our machines.

Jonathan

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "Bobby May" widgitsx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Wed Jul 2, 2008 8:55 am ((PDT))

Although the loctite solution does fix the the inner race onto the spindleanother problem still shows. If the bearing is loose to begin with theloctite does not center the spindle correctly; this could cause spindleconcentricity runout. A better repair would be to knurl the journallightly, then chuck it up and indicate it in using a .0001" dial testindicator. By turning down the knurled surface to a new correct diameterthe problem mentioned above does not occur. Loctite could then be used togive more surface area to make sure the inner race never comes loose overtime from side loading or vibration.

You take your chances the other way. I wouldn't give it a choice to haverunout. Probably mostly depends on how much clearance there is betweenthe 2 parts. If it still has some good true surface to locate on you mightget away with it.

Hope it helpsBobby

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh OhPosted by: "n5kzw" n5kzwx~xxarrl.netDate: Wed Jul 2, 2008 7:58 pm ((PDT))

In the area where the bearing would normally seat, take a small hammerand center punch and raise a number of small pips around the spindle.You only need a very light tap and if you put the pips at about 120-degreeintervals, you will probably keep the spindle pretty well centered.

Put it together and check the runout. If it meets requirements, then tearit down and re-assemble with the Locktite bearing stuff.

Regards,Ed

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Re: Spindle Re-Assembly Problem Uh Oh SolvedPosted by: "jwgott1" jwgx~xxleonard.com

Date: Fri Jul 4, 2008 3:27 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for all the great advice on this one. I followed Ed's advice andraised some rows of concentric pips with a small center punch and smallbrass machinist's hammer. This made the bearing fit just like I wouldthink it should. I did not use the Loctite, but I would do so if thereare any problems with the fix. This was a good learning experience allthe way around for us.

Thanks again.Jonathan

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[atlas_craftsman]Re: Stuck spindle and other questions [REMOVING HEADSTOCK FROM BED]Posted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Sun Jul 6, 2008 9:53 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the input guys, I've removed the clamp from the bottom butthe headstock still seems stuck fast. Not sure if I've removed everythingI should; the lathe has so much crud on it, it's hard to tell what'sattached to what.

Do I need to remove the on/off switch, gearguard,leadscrew or feedgearassembly, etc.?

Apologies for all the basic questions but this is my first lathe andI'm learning as I go.

CheersJim

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Re: Stuck spindle and other questionsPosted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.comDate: Sun Jul 6, 2008 10:10 am ((PDT))

You'll need to remove everything down to the bare casting.

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Re: Stuck spindle and other questionsPosted by: "dragonfl1ght" dragonflightx~xxrogers.comDate: Sun Jul 6, 2008 10:13 am ((PDT))

When I removed mine it was on the ground and I didn't notice 2 boltsat the very end of the lathe bed (not shown in the parts explosion). Icursed, oiled, levered, cursed, oiled, cursed, levered, and then cursedsome more trying to get it to budge thinking it had welded itself inthere. Removed the bolts and it lifted off easily!

Now I had already removed almost everything else, so I'm not sure whathas to go first, but I think it will lift up or at least slide forwardand then lift up.

mike

[AND IN A LATER MESSAGE:]For clarification the bolts are on the underside, go through the bedand screw into the headstock casting. And if the switch is stillconnected to the motor, it is easiest to unscrew it first and push itin as you are lifting the headstock

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Re: Stuck spindle and other questionsPosted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Sun Jul 6, 2008 11:40 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the info Mike, found the 2 bolts tucked away behind the feedgear assembly. Like you say, can't believe they're not shown in the partsdiagrams !!

Loving this group, it's a wealth of knowledge and none of the bitchingI've seen on other groups/forums.

CheersJim

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How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10F [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 1:15 pm ((PDT))

Finally managed to get everything off my lathe apart from the carriage/apron assembly.

Atlas manual states:

1. Remove leadscrew - done

2. Loosen gibs on back of carriage - I've taken the 4 screw/nuts thatare in a line on the back of the carriage out completely (presume theseare the gibs)

3. Slide the carriage off the bed - well I've wound the handle to movethe carriage to the back of the bed and now the handle just clunks andwon't move the carriage forwards or backwards - arrrgggh !!

Please tell me I haven't done some irrepairable damage and give me afew pointers on what I should be doing. (Crosslide etc is still on thecarriage if that makes a difference.)

CheersJim

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10F

Posted by: "dragonfl1ght" dragonflightx~xxrogers.comDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:06 pm ((PDT))

The carriage should just slide off at this point. Make sure both boltsfor the leadscrew bearing are removed (mine had a shop made bearingthat only used on of the bolts, but the other was in there).

If it doesn't slide off you can remove the apron (assume you are goingto do that eventually anyway) by unscrewing the 2 large Phillips screws.Now it should slide off.

If it doesn't there must be a big dint in the ways. Next step would beto remove the compound slide assembly, flip the bed over (good idea tosupport the headstock end) and unscrew the two bearing plates. Watchthe shims; my 1 thou one curled up like a spring and bounced around -don't kink it.

At this point the bed will lift off leaving the carriage (unless youput some glue in there!)

Looks like you are about a week behind me.

I have taken mine apart (all but a few swaged (?) in pins), cleaned it(thanks to someone in the group I used hand cleaner which did a realgood job once I realized I had to leave it on for a few hours/days -my lathe was a mess). It is all put back together now except for theheadstock, because I need a new belt.

good luckmike

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "Lucas Thompson" lucas.thompsonx~xxgmail.comDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 2:49 pm ((PDT))

Are you sure that you've got the carriage stop loose enough or off?IIRC I had to take that screw most or all of the way out on mine. It'sthe one on the top right-hand side toward the front.

Also make sure you didn't accidentally get the halfnuts engaged whilewrestling with it! :)

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:11 pm ((PDT))

Hi Lucas: No mention of a carriage stop in the manual so didn't evenrealise there was one. Think I found it, removed it completely but stillno joy. Could you just confirm that the item circled in this pic is thecarriage stop. http://tinyurl.com/6phuos

ThanksJim

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "Dragonflight" dragonflightx~xxrogers.comDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:24 pm ((PDT))

That's it,

mike

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 4:38 pm ((PDT))

Turning the handwheel won't take the carriage off, as you'll run out ofrack first. Sounds like that's where you are now. Give the carriage a pulland it should slide off.

As the parts of the bed that the carriage slides on will be most wornnear the headstock it may get a little tight before it comes off at thetailstock end. Make sure all gibs are loose.

John Martin

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "Michael Fagan" woodworker88x~xxgmail.com Date: Mon Jul 7, 2008 7:11 pm ((PDT))

You probably just ran it off the end of the carriage rack. You needto pull/slide it the rest of the way off. The noise is the gear thatengages the rack skipping at the very end. If you want to reengage it,just push the carriage while turning the handwheel.

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "mf205i" mf205ix~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jul 7, 2008 10:57 pm ((PDT))

The carriage is shimmed so that there is very little vertical play, sobefore you remove it, use a mill file and a stone to remove any high spotsthat may have been turned up from dings and burrs on the ways, payingextra attention to the ends and corners. Then use a Scotch brite padand some ATF-light oil to spiff up the ways on their tops, sides andunderneath. When everything is deburred and clean, then the carriagewill slide off.

Have fun,Mike

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiersDate: Tue Jul 8, 2008 4:56 am ((PDT))

Both the "mill file" and the stone will cut below the good surface. Iwould like to suggest NOT using a "mill file", etc.

Instead use a "burr file". That is typically a section of broken-off file,which one rubs on a flat oilstone to flatten the tips of the teeth.

The "burr file" will cut ONLY until it reaches flat metal, at whichtime you will know it since it will begin to glide smoothly, instead ofcutting. You won't need the stone, although a rub or two won't do anyparticular harm.

It is possible, but much more difficult, to make a half-round burr file.Such a file would be great for taper socket dings....

JT

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "Dragonflight" dragonflightx~xxrogers.comDate: Tue Jul 8, 2008 8:01 am ((PDT))

The "burr file" sounds like a great tip. I was wondering how I was goingto safely flatten some little dings I have.

thanksmike

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Re: How do you get the carriage/apron assembly off a 10FPosted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Tue Jul 8, 2008 10:31 am ((PDT))

Hi all: Thanks to everyone for the advice.

Unfortunately the carriage was stuck at the end of the bed and didn'twant to move at all so I wasn't able to file anything flat!

Confident in the knowledge that I was 'almost there' I warmed thecarriage with the trusty paint stripper gun and that loosened thingsup enough for me to slide (well more like tug) the carriage off.

Now onto the final strip down of the individual components and the bigclean up. Advance Warning - Be prepared for more 'how do I do this'questions :)

CheersJim

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NOTE TO FILE: The following thread resulted from a query about ways thatwere out of alignment. The description of the problem was a bit vagueso respondents did not know exactly how the ways were off level. However,folks attempting to help provided some good tips. Incidentally, theRollie's Dad's way to level ways is detailed in Dec 2000 in this file.

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Re: Flat ways not in same planePosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" catboat15x~xxaol.comDate: Wed Sep 3, 2008 10:07 pm ((PDT))

That is strange, if I read you correctly. Ways can be twisted out ofposition if the lathe is not "leveled" correctly (I put Level in quotesas "Leveling" is the common term for getting both ends in the same plane,level or on a tilt, but the same tilt). Leveling is the common termbecause that plane is easy to determine with a quality machinist's level.

Now, there are ways that are "humped" higher in the middle and lower atthe ends as well as sagged or what a boat builder would call "hogged"and there are directions in the manuals to correct that fault, by shimmingvarious places under the feet. So I would assume your fault would be thatone of the "legs" at the head stock end has a shim or uneven bearing onyour table to place a twist on one way, but not the other.

Shims placed inside the mounting bolts will tend to make the ways bowupwards and shims placed outside the mounting bolts will bow the ways tomake a hollow in the center. That is why the book shows shims made tobear on the whole foot with only a slot for the mounting bolt.

Some users bolt the head down tightly and allow the tails stock end tofloat slightly. My own Atlas has only one mounting hole at the tail stockend and that is how I have mounted it, two tight bolts at the head stockand only a finger tight bolt at the single tail stock mounting hole. (Thathole is in the center, of course.)

Assuming you have the more usual four bolt mounting system, what I woulddo is to loosen all the mounting bolts or screws, do the measurementsagain and work from that point. Adding and/or removing shims as required.Getting all readings the same of course. If your precision level (Notfrom the local home center) reads the same every place on the bed, youare there.

Also there is a method of assuring lathe leveling that does not use alevel, called "Rollie's Dad's way to level a lathe" which involveschucking up a known straight bar and taking measurements along the known

bar. Some machine shops keep a "test bar" in the tool room for doing thisand periodically check lathe alignment. (This will not only check forlevel, but also check for tail stock alignment.)

John Meacham Littlerock, California12 inch Atlas lathe, Mini-mill, band saw and a rusty file.

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Re: Flat ways not in same planePosted by: "jake09305" jake09305x~xxbellsouth.netDate: Thu Sep 4, 2008 7:00 am ((PDT))

If I might add on to John's comments...the surface on which the lathe ismounted makes a significant difference especially if it is a wooden bench.Wood moves...overnight and from season to season. The "test-bar" has theadvantage that it will verify the alignment of the vertical andhorizontal axes of the lathe regardless of how or where it is mounted.

The pursuit of "level" is because that is the way the lathe was initiallymanufactured and assembled....on a "flat" "level" surface. You want toreplicate that.

Henry

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NOTE TO FILE: And, as has been discussed many times before, levelling theways may be a bit easier if the lathe is on a perfectly level standor workbench, but such perfection is rarely the case in a typical workshop(or aboard a moving ship for that matter). The important thing is toalign both ways to be "perfectly" (or very close to perfectly) parallelto each other. Once that has been achieved, it matters not whether thebenchtop is out of level as during a storm at sea. The sea analogy isbecause lathes were standard shop equipment for ships and submarines whichare hardly ever perfectly level except for microseconds.

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[atlas_craftsman]Re: Atlas 10" Lathe - Cross Slide travel not square with bed??????Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue Oct 21, 2008 10:27 am ((PDT))

ChuckCastiglione wrote:> Anyone ever have a 10" Atlas lathe cross slide not be perp to the bed> rails? I'm out about .005" in 4" of travel. I checked in a few> different places on the bed with same results. I'm thinking of trying> to setup in my HARIG 6x12 and cleaning up the front edge of the> casting. Any thoughts are welcome.

You need to check both the casting and the bed. If either is worn (bedwill be concave, carriage would be convex) then both need to be corrected.A region of concave wear on the bed will quickly wear the carriage convexagain. Is the carriage able to rock against the bed?

I would hand-scrape the carriage front face to be square, but that fitsmy personal choice and skill/equipment.

You need to make sure the front face is exactly square to the cross slide.You can check that on the lathe easily by placing a hardened and groundrod of known straightness in the dovetail, and mounting a dial indicatorto the chuck so you can swing it around. Touch the indicator to the rod atthe two extreme ends, and note the difference in the reading. When thatreading is identical, the carriage is square to the bed.

Jon

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Re: Headstock cleaning and bearing removal [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:15 am ((PST))

jmileman wrote:> Hi all. Been a while since I last posted on here but I'm finally> getting a chance to complete the strip down and rebuild of my 10F> The headstock has about an inch thick layer of gunge over it and is in> desperate need of a good clean. Before I do I've got a couple of> questions I need clarification on> 1. What's the best way to get the dust covers and baffles out, is it> simply a case of levering them out.

Very gentle prying with a screwdriver or knife blade. They usually arenot pressed in very hard.

> 2. When I took the spindle out, the front bearing came out with it but> the back one is in fast, any tips on getting this out. From what I can> see the bearings look to be in good order so I'd like to re-use them> if I can. (also I assume the back bearing comes out towards the rear)

It is best to make up a set of stepped steel discs with center drillholes in them, to drive out the bearings outer races and also fit bothends of the spindle. Use a big gear puller, and it makes the whole joba lot easier.

> 3. Once the bearing is out does anything else have to come out of the> headstock ie is the surface the bearing sits on removable or is it> just a machined part of the headstock?

Just a machined bore with a lip at the end. Just be careful when applyingforce, as the metal is a bit thin there. As long as the bearing is going

in or out straight, everything will be ok. That's why the discs and pullerare so important. If they get crooked, it can crack the casting.

> 4. Was going to give the headstock a blast with carb cleaner is this> safe to use in this instance ?

I'm sure that is quite safe. Cleanliness is important, as grit in thebearing nest will jam it and require a lot of force to drive the newbearing in, which is bad for a number of reasons.

Jon

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Re: New mitre gear fits tight on lead screwPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:27 am ((PST))

Curt Thompson wrote:> I bought a replacement mitre gear (10F82A) from Clausing for myfather's 12x36 Atlas Lathe. The original had just a sliver of materialthat was left to engage the lead screw. Dad says that the new gear is notthe original zamak material. The new gear does not fit or is really tighton the lead screw. Anyone else run into this and what did you do? <

You (he) needs to find out whether it is the key or the bore that iscausing the binding. Possibly shining a bright light along the lengthof the screw as you try to fit the gear will tell which part is theproblem. If it isn't a little bit of mold flashing causing theinterference, then it might be necessary to carefully needle-file thebore or key to get a good fit.

Jon

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Re: New mitre gear fits tight on lead screwPosted by: "Fred" fred1900x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:06 pm ((PST))

I have the same problems with some of the gears that I bought. Inaddition, the left hand gear which is on a tubular shaft that has asolid round shaft inserted to it and pinned, did not fit. Someone atClausing suggested honing it out with sandpaper. I used a Dremel witha sanding disk and it took about two minutes to get it to fit, tightly.

I have trouble shifting for forward, reverse and neutral. It goes, buttakes a lot of pressure and sort of forcing it in. I will take it apartand check the floating gear in the center which engages to the pinionson either side. I think that there is a poor fit and as a result, itdoes not enter into the position with the pinion gears easily.

Fred

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Re: Wonderful Zamak [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sun Feb 8, 2009 4:29 pm ((PST))

I've recently used the Moglice compound intended for repairing feed nuts(I used it to repair the cross feed nut on my Sheldon lathe) as a buildup material to replace a missing tooth on a 96 tooth Atlas change gear.I've not used the gear since, so I have no idea if it'll fail, but itseems pretty strong.

I'm very happy with the outcome on the nut repair. The nut is smooth assilk and I have about .001 of backlash on the cross feed. The machinehad about .030 when I bought it. Sheldon uses a non standard 1/2 -8thread on the cross, compound and tailstock nuts.

Brett Jones

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Re: Wonderful ZamakPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sun Feb 8, 2009 9:32 pm ((PST))

Michael Michalski wrote:> Thats impressive. How much does it cost.

It came in a kit form with enough material to do 4-5 nuts. The cost wasaround $50. I also replaced the screw, so add $30 or so for the screwstock.

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Re: Wonderful ZamakPosted by: "Brett Jones" brettx~xx5foot2.comDate: Sun Feb 8, 2009 10:48 pm ((PST))

Robert Silas wrote:> How does this whole procedures work?

Well, I made a new screw by joining a length of commercial precisionacme screw stock (1/2 - 8 LH from a company named Roton) to theunthreaded portion of an original screw.

I then took an original cast iron Sheldon nut that was worn out andbored out the threads. Next I cut a 8 or 10 pitch "thread" on the ID ofthe nut with a boring bar to give the material something to grip/key into.

Then I made a pair of collars that held the nut ID concentric with thescrew. These were a light press fit and only extended into the nut boreby .030 or so.

The Moglice kit included some clay to use as a dam, a release agent,cleaning solution, the epoxy and catalyst, a syringe and other ancillaryitems.

I cleaned all metal surfaces and applied 2 or 3 layers of the releaseagent to the screw and the collars. I installed the collars and used theclay to make the dams.

A portion of the epoxy was mixed and using the syringe injected into thenut through the mounting/oiling hole. It took about 24 hours for theepoxy to setup completely.

As I said the end result was great. I had a couple of small voids in thecasting that could have been avoided if I'd had an outlet hole for theepoxy flow out of while I filled the void. The nut has been performingperfectly.

I have a second worn nut and the screw shaft I bought was long enough tomake 2 nut/screw sets, so I'm going to go through the process again anddocument it. I'm thinking about submitting it to Village Press but Ithink they may have published a similar article 3 or 4 years ago. Ifthey have I'll just post it online somewhere.

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Re: Wonderful ZamakPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon Feb 9, 2009 9:12 am ((PST))

Robert Silas wrote:> How does this whole procedures work?

Moglice is sold in the US by Devitt machinery, and they have a wonderfulbook they will send you, as well as having a fair amount of info online.http://www.moglice.com/

I used it to rebuild a 15" Sheldon lathe carriage, and it worked VERYwell. Devitt has a whole series of products to make the process work.They have a spray-on solvent that degreases the parts so the Moglicewill stick. They have a spray-on mold release wax that you put on themaster (in the case of leadscrew nuts, you'd put it on the leadscrew).For slideway applications, they have stick-on wax that you can use tomold in the oil grooves. They have a range of Moglice in differentviscosities, depending on how easy it is to get it in where it isgoing. I used the "putty" version for the carriage.

I drilled and tapped 10-32 holes in the carriage so I could have 8brass-tip set screws that bore on the ways. 4 were straight down to setthe carriage level, then two bearing on the back of the bed, and two onthe front. I set them all up to get the cross-slide way perpendicular tothe spindle. I then loosened the front screws and turned the carriageover, applied the putty and placed the carriage on the ways, andtightened the front screws that I had loosened. A day later I used thesetscrews to pop the carriage free. I'd made it too high, and thecarriage rack bound up, so I had to scrape the Moglice down a bit. Itscrapes very easily.

For a nut application, you need to make up some rings that center thenut over the screw and hold the Moglice in place until it sets.

Jon

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Re: Wonderful ZamakPosted by: "Robert Silas" robert.silasx~xxvideotron.caDate: Mon Feb 9, 2009 10:44 am ((PST))

Jon and Brett,Thanks for the idea and the descriptions. I'll look into this repairpossibility though at this moment I do not need it. I used J.B. Weldbefore with some success, but this material promises more.

In spite of all that I don't think that a gear-tooth could just be justglued on to its broken base. I still believe in the old system, either byhand or by using a "Dovetail" cutter, cut a base and fit a piece of bronzeor brass into it which will be filed or machined to a tooth. I sawbeautiful jobs like that. (I wasn't the one who did it.)

Robert

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Re: Could use some advice [Atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Bryan Waldron" bewaldronx~xxmsn.comDate: Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:18 am ((PST))

"lloomie" wrote:> Hi folks, I have a 40's era Atlas craftsman - just broke a zamak part-> the bracket in the apron that holds the apron advance gears- does> anyone have one to sell or know how to repair it? I found a ref> to "Alumite, and "Muggy weld super alloy 1" for brazeing Zamak- anyone> ever used these? Thanks, Leo

I could be wrong, but I think you are referring to what Atlas callsthe "Gear Case". Regardless, that's the part that I recently usedMuggyWeld on, and so far I think that the rather pricey cost of therods and flux was worth the investment.

Some "off the top of my head" thoughts:

1) This was my second attempt to repair the same part. The first timeI used JBWeld epoxy, and it lasted about a year before breaking again.To me, a year was not long enough to justify trying epoxy again evenif the cost of JB Weld is a fraction of what MuggyWeld is.

2) The actual soldering of the two pieces was the easiest part of theentire operation - Most of my time was spent cleaning off the old JBWeld, removing the shaft and gears that are part of the assembly(which in my case would have made for an awkward repair if notremoved), and making a wooden jig to hold the two pieces in thecorrect location.

3) Using my (hotter) MAPP gas was not necessary - I just used propaneand followed the procedures in the videos at the MuggyWeld webpage.

All that said, it's my understanding that due to the rather imprecisemethods of production back when these lathes were made, not all Zamakparts react alike to brazing/soldering - what worked on mine, mightnot work on yours.

Hope this helps.Bryan

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Re: Could use some advicePosted by: "ChrisandJudy" chrisandjudyx~xxcableone.netDate: Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:20 pm ((PST))

Somebody who is evry good at useing a TIG welder can repair Zamak. Afriend TIG welded my apron gear case, the same part you need repaired.By the way, the same part was broken on a late model (1975?) cabinet12x36 Craftsman and he welded it up too. He told me the newer Zamak wasmuch more impure and therefor harder to weld.

Chris

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[RAISING ATLAS LATHE HEAD AND TAIL STOCKS FOR MORE SWING]Re: Perhaps a Stupid Question [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "seb fontana" speedoo51x~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Mar 3, 2009 10:06 am ((PST))

"chance16301" wrote:> Hi I've been lurking here for quite some time. I have what may be a> stupid question. Has anyone tried using a riser block on a atlas 10> inch lathe to give it 12 in swing capability. I am considering the idea> just for a couple of projects I might have in mind. Just wondering what> some of you might have to say. Thanks in advance for your input. Dan

Dan, not a stupid question. I spaced my 10" up 4" [18" swing]... Not toturn large diameters but bore holes in large odd-shaped parts. Dependingon how many functions of the lathe you what to keep, I retained all.

Briefly: I got some [2] flat ground stock, 4" x 3/4" x the length of theHeadstock. 2 more pieces of flat ground, 2.750" x 3/4" x 3.5", the 2.750to be made to suit [snug]the dimension between the bed rails. These willact as spacers and keys. Put the two "keys" in the bed rails, about .250down, leaving 3.25 above the bed. Lay the two pieces of 4", one on theback bed rail and one on the front rail, 3/4" side down, 4" against"keys...key spacing should be arranged to clear head draw studs. Clamptogether and drill and tap for 1/4-20 to hold the assembly together.Long headstock studs, added one gear, studded to the new spacer to connectthe feed gears..

The Tail stock can be raised in the same manner, longer stay bolt, and no

it does not create extra bed wear from sliding if you keep things cleanand lubed.

For the tool post I just made a spacer of 3" dia x 4" long. Used two Allancap screws counter bored with t-nuts to bolt to compound, with multiplethreaded holes all around the counter bores to hold my axa style tool postdown.

So, 1" raise is not a problem, 4" is about the limit because the only realdrawback to adding swing is you will loose rigidity. Ran the lathe forabout 15 years like that...restored the lathe back to 10" swing when Ineeded the rigidity for some tough metal and minimal cuts would have takenforever. I mounted a spare head stock on the spacer and on accasion mountit on my 12" lathe, to the right of the stock head, coupled by two gears,nose to tail for those weird odd jobs.

Seb

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Flat Bed [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "CVBT" cvbtx~xxyahoo.com CVBTDate: Tue Mar 10, 2009 9:14 am ((PDT))

I have an Atlas 3991 Lathe w/6"swing & 3' bed. After reading all theposts on leveling I realized that I had built a friendship with the headof the machine shop at the local technical college; I borrowed aprecision level from him. So, it seems my bed is bowed. <snip>

I'll check it again but I think I'll find it is indeed bowed.<snip>

Does anyone have any tricks for handling a bed that's high in the middle;like putting a shim under the headstock leg end, or shimming under theheadstock end floor mounts?

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Flat BedPosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" catboat15x~xxaol.comDate: Tue Mar 10, 2009 4:39 pm ((PDT))

Yes, I have seen instructions (maybe in the Clausing book) on locatingshims to level a bowed bed. For a hump in the middle put shims betweenthe mounting bolts and the far ends of the feet.

If your lathe has a "dip" in the bed put the shims under the feet inboardof the mounting holes. The article showed a sketch of normal shims whichcovered all of the foot area except for a slot to pass by the mountingbolts. <snip>

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Re: X-feed & Compound Rest Feed screws binding [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "CVBT" cvbtx~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Mar 12, 2009 8:12 am ((PDT))

Bruce Freeman wrote:> > I think I'm having this problem now on both the crossslide handle and> > on the compound rest handle. This was not a problem a day or two ago,> > but I've been running both of those handles quite bit. It's> > conceivable that there's swarf in the mechanism, but I have no reason> > to believe so. On the crossslide handle, I DO see the jam nut is> > loose, and that seems to be the problem there.> > What's the approach needed to fix these? How should the jamnut be> > adjusted? I have no information on how to do that. How do you> > disassemble the crossslide and the compound rest for thorough> > cleaning? Mine is a 10" Atlas lathe.

Jon Elson wrote:> OK, the handle and graduated dial is also part of the thrust bearing for> the leadscrew. So, you want to take up nearly all the clearance there,> but leave enough so it doesn't bind. The two jam nuts are there so the> thing doesn't tighten up by itself. You should take it apart once in a> while to clean and lubricate the bushing there. And, you also need to> put a drop of oil on the graduated dial if your machine doesn't have an> oil hole in the bushing. Jon

Jon, I learned how to do this. The xfeed dial and collar are threaded ontoa bushing that is threaded onto the xfeed shaft. The bushing must belocked onto the shaft by tightening the end nut against the hand wheelagainst the bushing. There are very explicit instructions how to do thisin the Atlas manual. It's such a joy to have those feed screws not bind.Ahhhh.

Geoffrey

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NOTE TO FILE: The following discussion is about dealing with backlashon an Atlas lathe. You might also wish to read the file here calledSherline Mill Backlash. There is a great deal of information there aboutreducing or compensating for backlash that could apply to other mills andlathes besides Sherline ones.

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Re: Backlash [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Thu May 21, 2009 10:30 am ((PDT))

Bruce Freeman wrote:> Is there any trick to eliminating backlash in the crossfeed and> similar screws?

For the crossfeed, there is one trick: the short 1/4 - 20 bolt in thecrossfeed casting (just behind the compound mount) is very susceptible torocking. There must be a flat washer under the head of this bolt! Withoutthis washer, the crossfeed rocks back and forth noticeably. Obviously,this fastener must be torqued snugly into the crossfeed nut.

Other than that, make sure your gibs are properly adjusted.

William A.

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Thu May 21, 2009 11:06 am ((PDT))

It depends on where it is. I'd start by making sure that the cross feednut is tight on the slide and isn't slipping around. Once you'recomfortable with that, you want to make sure that there isn't a lot ofslop in the screw mount - put an indicator on the front or back end of thescrew and push/pull on the screw with the handle. If you see slop there,you'll need to address it where it's mounted.

Once sure of the nut & screw mounting, the only thing left is wear ineither the screw or the nut. You can check this fairly easily by mountingan indicator bearing on the cross slide and push/pull on the slide. Ifthere's a lot of difference from the center of the screw to the ends, thenthe screw is worn; if there's little difference, then the nut is worn.

In my experience the nut tends to wear more than the screw, but if the nutis allowed to pick up crap it'll tend to lap the screw.

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Thu May 21, 2009 12:56 pm ((PDT))

If you check all the things Russ recommends, and you are sure the play isin the Nut, an old trick is to cut a slit in the nut to the depth of thethread about 3/4 of the way towards the rear, and drill and tap a hole for

a small screw from the far side. You can then 'squeeze' the two partstogether eliminating nearly all play. In the normal cutting direction,there is still 3/4 of the Nut carrying the load, and the 1/4 that is lefton the withdrawal stroke is normally not loaded .

Some British lathes had this as a factory feature.

rgds,Carvel

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "azbruno" azbrunox~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu May 21, 2009 12:27 pm ((PDT))

You won't be able to eliminate backlash, but you can reduce it by keepingthe nut and screw in good alignment, reducing the play near the dials,and maybe replacing the nuts.

The nut will be brass and should wear before the screw, but the screw canalso develop some wear (as someone else pointed out).

You must take up the backlash in bringing the tool to the work.

Note: I'm talking about our old Atlas machines now... not thinking aboutballscrews on CNC machines.

Bruno

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "ajxnagy" ajxnagyx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Sat May 23, 2009 11:57 am ((PDT))

Please - how much backlash is considered acceptable on the 618? What istypical? I know this may be a matter of personal tolerance but what wouldone expect if the nut and screw were brand new.

By putting a dial indicator and checking play I find play is about 7 to 12thousandths depending on screw travel. This is about the same on the cal-ibrated dial. There has to be some play I assume even with everything new.

What tolerance is expected regarding the calibrated dial? If my dialindicator is correct I have about a 1% error or 1 thousandth for every100. With 5 turns of the calibrated dial the travel will actually be0.505. Since this error is known compensation can be made.

What do others in the group experience?

AJ

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com"Date: Sat May 23, 2009 12:07 pm ((PDT))

Just how much "backlash" are we talking about here? With a machine likethe Atlas there is going to be some backlash (unless you want to lookinto a re-fit with ball screws). You can minimize the backlash byadjusting the special cross-slitted nut that holds the handle along withthe thin nut behind the handle to take up excessive play. But there mustbe some play in there or things bind up.

To compensate you always approach a setting from the same direction.For example cutting threads -- when you back off after a cut, screw thetool out, and bring the carriage back to the start. Then make sure youapproach the next setting from the same direction to eliminate the back-lash. Should be a few 1/1000s if screws and nuts are working right.Sometimes with years of use the nuts on the cross and compound slides workloose and need adjusting to reduce the backlash as much as practical onour machines.

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Re: Backlash (sorry, long post)Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com"Date: Sun May 24, 2009 12:51 pm ((PDT))

I don't quite understand what your letter says. Backlash does not accumu-late if as you wrote you have so much error in several inches that wouldnot be backlash, but an error in the threads on the screw. Now 20 threadsper inch is not too hard to do with modern (even in the days of Atlasmanufacturing). I would be looking at some other source for that error(or in my measuring technique or measuring instrument).

(A prime example is seen in the Chinese tools sold by Harbor Fright thathave 16 TPI threads on the lead screws and a dial marked in 1/1000 but(at least to my first adventure with one of their milling machines) hasa final part division to make up where 16 is not a factor of 100.

Back lash error comes in when you have to make two or more cuts to reach adimension. Say you need to remove 0.25 inches from a rod. You divide the.25 by two (since you take material from all sides) and set the dial togive you a reading for .100 cut planning on a second finish cut. Now tobring the tool back to the start you retract the tool a bit, crank thecarriage back to the start near the tail stock and move the tool forwardby what you figure your finish cut would be.

What happens is that the tool does not move at all until the back lash has

been taken up so your measurements are off by the amount of the back lash.So what we have to do with our machines, if you want to put the tool inthe same relation to the work when taking a second cut, you have to"overshoot" when bringing the tool back from the work so that you comeforward again so the nut and screw are in the same relationship as whenyou started.

Hard to explain, but go to your lathe and crank the cross slide in onedirection stopping at some known division, then start cranking in theother direction and you will see the dial on the crank move before theslide actually starts to move. If you stopped at the 20 mark, then see thecompound does not start to move until the dial reads 30 you have 10/1000back lash. Not a real problem in real life as long as you remember whentaking a second cut to come back more than your known back lash and thenbring the tool forward again to your desired reading. That is what thehigh school metal shop instructor means when he says "Remember to take upthe back lash."

Or more simply always approach a reading from the same direction. Sometools and instruments have an arrangement of some kind to eliminate backlash; some instruments have two gears held together by a spring if onlymoving a pointer, machine tools may use "ball screws" which does notallow back lash since there is a different kind of contact between screwand nut.

I am not a CNC programmer but I assume those who write such programs mustallow for the "back lash" error on machine tools. The main thing is toalways load the screw and nut from the same direction. Then no matter ifyou have .005 or .05 back lash, you can work around the problem.

In my own shop I keep a black board and chalk next to the lathe and do mylittle calculations there so it can be erased and re-used. I also have alittle "wallet sized" calculator out there so can divide numbers quicklyand accurately plus keeping 25.4 in the memory to convert between MM andInches.

One last bit of advice, I would not try to "correct for back lash" byusing the set screw on the dial to turn the dial to the "correct reading";the way the dial and the nuts are constructed on the Atlas you mightinstall an error where none existed. Use that feature to make an initialsetting and like the old commercials used to say "Don't touch that dial."(Black board figure to remember what you read.)

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Re: BacklashPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Tue May 26, 2009 8:31 am ((PDT))

Catboat gave you an excellent answer to your question. One point he made

may deserve a little further explanation, though.

If you are seeing .505" movement of your cross-slide for .500" cranked onyour handwheel divisions, and assuming that you are approaching from thesame direction and are measuring correctly, what you have is not abacklash problem but feedscrew error. Feedscrew error like that can comeonly from a feedscrew that was cut incorrectly, was stretched orcompressed in use, or has been worn to different degrees along its length.

Wear of the feedscrew will cause backlash, as will many other factors.Backlash, however, does not necessarily indicate feedscrew wear or error.Nor does a worn feedscrew necessarily result in feedscrew error.

The error you are seeing seems like a lot, although I'll admit I havenever tested my feedscrews over that kind of distance. I'm not sure whyI'd want to. If I measure my workpiece before taking the final cut, andcrank in the distance necessary, I'm right on. Obviously, on an Atlaslathe I'd never be taking a single cut .500" deep, nor generally evenclose to .100" deep (where by your measurement your leadscrew might beoff by .001").

I'd be surprised if your feedscrew was manufactured with an error of 1%.While you could have differential wear, I'd also be surprised to see thatmuch over such a short distance, unless your lathe was used in amanufacturing situation for a long time at about the same setting. If itis differential wear, you can check for it. Test the full travel of yourfeed screw. Use the longest travel that your dial indicator has. When youget to the end of the dial indicator's travel, back it out, reset it, andcontinue to crank. If there is a wear problem with your feedscrew, youshould find that at some point you are only getting say .495" travel for.500" cranked on the handwheel, and that over the full travel of thefeedscrew you are right on target.

Again, though, I wouldn't be too concerned about long range errors on thefeedscrew, since you should be using it not for absolute positioning butfor repeatability and for adjusting for a final cut after measuring.

John Martin

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Power crossfeed knob [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmileman" jmilemanx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Mon Jul 13, 2009 1:59 pm ((PDT))

The crappy mazak\zamak apron gear case on my 10F finally fell apart lastweek so over the weekend I've attempted to cobble together a replacement.It's not perfect as the handwheel gear and shaft gear don't mate quite as

well as they could do so it's a little noisy when moving the carriagehowever it should be good enough for me.

However on testing everything on re-assembly I noticed that the powercrossfeed knob rotates when the lead screw is engaged. Now it's verylikely that it's always done this (and should do this)but I've nevernoticed it in the past, can someone just put my mind at rest and confirmthat this is normal.

ThanksJim

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Re: Power crossfeed knobPosted by: "shuckersfan" shuckersfanx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jul 13, 2009 2:34 pm ((PDT))

When the leadscrew turns, it turns. If not, you've got problems with yourmitre gear assembly.

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Re: Power crossfeed knobPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon Jul 13, 2009 7:07 pm ((PDT))

Yes, that knob is on the end of a gear shaft. When you pull the knob,the gear lines up with a gear on the crossfeed shaft, and makes it turn.Anytime the leadscrew is turning, the knob should also turn.

Jon

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Re: Power crossfeed knobPosted by: "mertnedp" pdentremx~xxforterie.comDate: Tue Jul 14, 2009 5:52 pm ((PDT))

As others have stated, the knob rotates whenever the lead screw isturning. I have replaced this knob with a different setup as a rotatingpart can hurt you in a machine shop. Also it gives me a better way ofengaging the Power cross feed. I did post some pictures ashttp://wrx-now.tripod.com

Check out the Atlas page. This modification makes it so much easierto operate.

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Re: Tailstock quick release [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Wed Jul 15, 2009 7:06 pm ((PDT))

> >I find a quarter turn sufficient to go from tight to loose or

> >vice-versa, so the wrench on the nut is a sufficient quick release for> >any work I've done so far.7/15/09, jwormanx~xxgmail.com writes:> I cut off a combination wrench, leaving the box end, and just left it on> the nut. The angle wasn't just right, so I heated it and made a 20° bend> in the handle. It's there all the time and tightens up nicely.> Occasionally I'll move it to the next flat, but not often. John

For an even more convenient setup - one that won't let the wrench fall off-- make up a special nut. From the top down: a flange the size of the nutacross the corners, then a turned section the diameter of the nut acrossthe flats and as long as the thickness of the wrench, then the hex flats.

The flange will keep the box wrench captive, and the turned section willallow you to re-position it. No more hunting for the wrench after itfalls on the floor.

John Martin

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Re: Tailstock quick releasePosted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Wed Jul 15, 2009 11:54 pm ((PDT))

I cut off two combination wrenches and welded the box end piecestogether to make a single wrench that fits the tailstock and the nuton the tool post.

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Atlas H48 Headstock Shims [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "shuckersfan" shuckersfanx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Aug 15, 2009 9:24 am ((PDT))

I recently picked up an Atlas 10" H48 and have been restoring it. Ifinally got to the headstock only to find that the bolts holding thespindle were loose and there are no shims in place. The bearings lookto be in good order. Tightening the bolts finger tight causes the shaftto lock up -- to all but a good tug to get it to rotate.

So what do you all recommend I use for shims: paper, shim stock, callClausing to see if they have the original stuff lying around in thewarehouse, or ??? Also, what thickness should I start with? Any tips onwhen it is shimmed just right?

Thanks!

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock Shims

Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sat Aug 15, 2009 11:21 am ((PDT))

There are probably a dozen different ways of tackling this, but what I didin the absence of an original shim pack was to get 4 sets of automotivefeeler gauges, and to use these under each bearing cap. Adjust them downuntil the spindle just starts to drag and go up again by one to two thou.

Add them up and then go and get some engineering shim stock to make up therequired thickness.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock ShimsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sat Aug 15, 2009 1:24 pm ((PDT))

The original setup had .004" laminated shim packs, you peeled a layer ata time. To make finer adjustments, I used aluminum foil, which is about.0015" thick.

Hard to say what shim to start with, I might put layers of paper in thereuntil you get proper clearance, then use aluminum foil or brass shim stockto make proper shims for it. Make sure to put even shims both front andback so the cap sits level. You can buy shim stock assortments with .001to .050" or so sheets of brass relatively cheaply. Better hardware storesmay carry this, there are these K&S racks that some hobby shops have thathave an assortment of thin sheet metals. Some .010" and aluminum foilwould probably do all you need.

As for the proper shimming, you want it close, but not binding. Assumingthe spindle is still smooth and round, you should be able to get it downto quite amall clearance without binding. You put a dial indicator on thebed or headstock casting and indicate up-down play in the spindle. Youwant to get the play down to about .001 to .002".

When you are there, the hydrodynamic oil film when running will constrainthe spindle to near zero play. When you get the up-down clearance right,check front-back clearance. It should also be relatively well constrained.If not, then you have the problem of out-of-round bearings, which istypical on these Babbit bearings. They wear egg-shaped due to the forceson the spindle. The cutting tool forces the spindle back and up, and thebelt also forces it back, so that region of the bearing wears more. Handscraping the bearing is the fix, but you have to do both front and back

bearings together to maintain spindle alignment. Good measuring tools areneeded to keep the spindle aligned.

When you get all done, the spindle, when well lubed and spun once todistribute the oil film, should spin nearly effortlessly and coast gentlyto a stop, and be able to run at 1000 RPM without heating. With pre-waroils, you were supposed to loosen the bearing caps slightly to run above1000 RPM, that probably is no longer needed.

Jon

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock ShimsPosted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sat Aug 15, 2009 8:17 pm ((PDT))

Before I went out searching for "real" shim stock, I would cut apart somealuminum cans and probably find they were around 0.010" thick. Soup andcoffee can lids are steel and probably about the same. Steel strappingmakes good shim stock if you need something closer to 0.020". Just startlooking around -- your trash and others and then mic the thickness. Noreason all cans are going to be the same. Some strapping is thicker thanothers. The wider stuff is thicker than the thin stuff. If they areroofing a house somewhere in your area, flashing is usually aluminum andmaybe the right thickness.

Happy scrounging . . .

L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock ShimsPosted by: "Barry Young" barryjyoungx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:05 am ((PDT))

Soda cans are .005 thick. Any more and they waste material, any less andthey are too fragile.

Barry

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock ShimsPosted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.comDate: Sun Aug 16, 2009 7:13 am ((PDT))

Use your calipers to determine the thickness of any makeshift shim.However, be aware that when you cut the shim stock you may deform theedge, making the shim less flat. If possible, make your shims oversizeso he edges have no bearing (ha!) on the outcome. I can do that withmy Craftsman 12's Babbitt spindle bearing shims.

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Re: Atlas H48 Headstock ShimsPosted by: "Christian Herzog" zogx~xxstg.comDate: Sun Aug 16, 2009 8:03 am ((PDT))

McMaster-Carr (www.mcmaster.com) sells laminated shims in .002" layerthickness - aluminum, brass, steel, and stainless steel in a varietyof different overall thicknesses if you want to go "original".

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Cross slide backlash [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "moj_jimmy" jimdnax~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:39 pm ((PDT))

Well Im getting the the point where the massive amount of backlash isstarting to drive me nuts. IS there any way to rid my lathe of this?I'm pretty sure this thing was dropped at some point in its life.

It is a late 101 style on a stand 12 inch variety.

None of you guys happen to have a good condition nut and screw layingaround? Thanks any help with a fix, or finding suitable replacementparts is welcome.

Jim

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Re: Cross slide backlashPosted by: "Michael Schetterer" finegrainmetalx~xxhotmail.comDate: Thu Aug 20, 2009 9:51 pm ((PDT))

Hi Jim,Backlash in a crossfeed comes from several places:

1. worn nut2. worn screw (shows as uneven backlash, worse up close and not so bad way far away)3. worn thrust washers and thrust washer bearing surfaces

#1 and #2 are cured by new parts. I make them from bar stock, and wouldbe happy to give you a price quote. You can usually find used parts onEbay and the like, but then of course you might be buying worn parts toreplace your worn parts. Sometimes you can find NOS parts. Heck, Searsmight still stock parts.

Thrust washer and bearing surface wear can be adjusted out in manylathes, not sure about the 101. If there's no mechanism for adjsutment,shims can take up the extra space.

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Re: Cross slide backlashPosted by: "J D" jimdnax~xxgmail.com

Date: Thu Aug 20, 2009 10:09 pm ((PDT))

Ok thrust washers are which part? Im still kinda new so the lingoescapes me sometimes.

thanksjim

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Re: Cross slide backlashPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:08 pm ((PDT))

Jim: I had awful backlash on my Atlas cross-slide and was gearing up tofab a new nut when I realized that the problem was that the bolt thatholds the nut to the cross-slide was wiggling relative to the slide,rather than the cross-slide nut wiggling relative to the cross-slidescrew.

If you look at the top of the cross-slide, there's a bolt head stickingout right behind the compound slide base. This nut MUST have a good washerunderneath of it. I don't know if this is what he's talking about(I suspect the thrust washer he's mentioning is part of the x-screwassembly), but if you're wobbling because of this, it's an easy15-cent fix.

William A.

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Re: Cross slide backlashPosted by: "jimdnax~xxgmail.com"Date: Thu Aug 20, 2009 11:22 pm ((PDT))

Bingo that was it. I guess in my reassembly, I did not torque it down.Tightened it up and it most of the backlash is gone. I can live with itnow. Thanks. I love this group for quick solutions like this. Will dothe cutting in between centers test later to confirm it.

Jim

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Re: Cross slide backlashPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Fri Aug 21, 2009 5:36 am ((PDT))

With this, or other cases of "backlash", a couple things are important toremember.

1) It is impossible for there to be "true backlash" due to wear that islarger than the screw pitch. That would imply there were no threads atall on either the nut or the screw. So if the backlash appears to be very

large, yet the screw appears to have little wear, you are almost certainlylooking in the wrong place for the source of trouble, wear is not yourissue (or at least not the only one).

2) Backlash is "lost motion", you turn the screw, but things do not slide.Therefore you can look at the screw for the amswer. When you turn thescrew, does it move in and out relative to the crosslide (or other partyou are examining)? If so, the problem is with bearings restraining thescrew.

3) If the screw does not move much, the crosslide does not move, andyet turning gives no sliding, the problem must be with the nut or itsmounting.

These considerations apply to crosslide, compound slide, leadscrew, andscrews on mills etc as well.

And, of course, backlash is always present. We are really arguing over howmuch is too much. if there were no "slop", the screw either wouldn't turn,or it would be a ballscrew.

JT

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Re: Hand wheel removal? [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "EARL BOWER" earl.bower1x~xxverizon.netDate: Thu Dec 3, 2009 8:38 pm ((PST))

On Thu, 12/3/09, Mike Nicewonger <twmasterx~xxtwmaster.com> wrote:> How do you remove the hand wheels on the compound and cross slide?

The handles are locked with taper pins. Watch how you drive them out.A light tap with a pin punch and a hammer, on the right [smaller]end of the pin, they will come out.

Earl

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Re: Hand wheel removal?Posted by: "ghostseses" dericknewmanx~xxhotmail.comDate: Fri Dec 4, 2009 5:11 pm ((PST))

If you are speaking of an Atlas 618, they have split nuts to secure thehandles on the cross and compound slides. If you don't have a split nutdriver, you can take a washer that is fairly thick and will fit intothe slot, file a flat across the washer, and then file a notch in it anduse it to unscrew the nuts.

Derick

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Hand wheel removalPosted by: "mcole1954" mcolex~xxcopper.netDate: Mon Dec 7, 2009 8:20 am ((PST))

There is a jam nut at the back of the handle. Loosen this nut first, doesnot take much, just moving it slightly will loosen it. Requires a thinwrench, which usually came with the lathe, but are frequently lost overthe years. You could grind a regular wrench down a bit if you do not havethe original. I do not the recall the exact size, but think it's probablya 7/16.

Once the rear nut is loosened, removing the front, recessed, slotted nutis usually very easy. You can usually spin it out with the tip of a smallscrewdriver or punch.

It has little holding power, it's the rear jam nut that keeps it alltogether. Trying to remove the handle without loosening the rear jam nutmay damage both the handle and nut.

Hope this helps !Mike C.Proud owner of 3 Atlas/Craftsman 618's

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Re: Hand wheel removalPosted by: "Michael J. Strauch" mikesx~xxpgisd.comDate: Mon Dec 7, 2009 8:59 am ((PST))

The nut is a ½" I only know this since I removed mine over the weekend forcleaning. Yes, once the jam nut was loose I used a small screwdriver toremove the end nut.

Michael J. Strauch

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bul gear pin [BULL GEAR PIN] [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "redragonnetx~xxyahoo.com"Date: Fri Dec 25, 2009 8:50 am ((PST))

When you loosen up the pin on the bull gear, here's a little trick I use!Take a tack puller tool and grind it a bit so it easily fits it the grooveof the pin and you will have a tool that easily moves the bull gear pin ineither direction! I wouldn't be without it!

Norm Camillus, NY

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Tramming the MFC mill [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Shad" shendersonx~xxthegeekgroup.orgDate: Tue Jan 5, 2010 5:54 am ((PST))

Hi All,In a week or so, I'll be re-assembling the Atlas MFC horizontal millI've been restoring. It is cleaning up very nicely, and will be usable,albeit missing backgear and power feed for awhile yet. Still have tomake some replacement parts for it.

My question is about tramming the thing back square. The manual I gotfrom Clausing is pretty thin and has nothing at all about tramming themachine. I've never trammed a horizontal mill, so I'm not sure whereto start and where to adjust it to correct any out-of-square issues.

Thanks!Shad H.

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Re: Tramming the MFC millPosted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Tue Jan 5, 2010 6:47 am ((PST))

The head is a separate casting and could be shimmed on assembly tocorrect some errors. So far as I can tell that's about all that couldbe done short of remachining or scraping things in.

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Re: Tramming the MFC millPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Tue Jan 5, 2010 8:19 am ((PST))

Sounds to me as though you're assuming it is out of square. It mostlikely isn't.

Tramming is something that is done regularly with vertical Bridgeport-typemills, on which the heads tilt from side to side and nod forward and back.Since they adjust, they get out of adjustment - and need to be set back tosquare for most work.

Most horizontal mills have fixed spindles, so no adjustments arenecessary. Unless the saddle or table is sagging, in which case you'relooking at replacing gibs or re-scraping. It's not likely, however, thatan Atlas mill would have that degree of wear.

John Martin

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Re: Tramming the MFC millPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Jan 6, 2010 2:53 pm ((PST))

On a manual Bridgeport, the head is on a knuckle joint, so the head hasto be aligned in two axes to the table. On a typical benchtop horizontal,there are no such adjustments.

One other thing to note is that you want the spindle axis of rotationnormal to the XY plane of the table's MOTION, not to the surface of thetable itself.

So, what you would do is install an angle block on the table and dial itin so there is no indicator change when you move the table in X and Y(vertically). Then, sweep the indicator with the spindle rotation, andyou should still have no change in dial reading.

I assume scraping the ways may be the only way to change the alignment.

Jon

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NOTE TO FILE: The question as to where to find a crossfeed nut for anyAtlas made lathe has come up several times before, and those answerscan be found earlier in this file. Just do a search "crossfeed nut"

The temporary fixes mentioned in the following message may get you backin operation while making a new nut, or ordering one from say Clausing.

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Re: 6" Atlas 101 crossfeed nut [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Thu Jan 21, 2010 2:01 am ((PST))

> How much play should there be between the crossfeed screw & nut?> I'm guessing almost none. Where can I get a crossfeed nut?

There is one inside a piece of brass near you ;)

They come up on e-bay now and then but you need to be sure the slop is inthe nut to screw fit and not elsewhere.

As an interim fix I put a piece of weedeater line into the hole that themounting screw goes into. This gets forced down into the acme threadedportion and tightens things up nicely. There is also a fix that I used onmy 12" and that is to slot the nut across the threads about 1/8" from oneface. Drill and tap a hole to pull the threads together with a AHCS.Pretty common on mills.

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New 3996 Lead Screw Project - Done [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "ernieazevedo" ernieazevedox~xxcomcast.netDate: Fri Feb 5, 2010 9:10 am ((PST))

I've owned my 3996 for over 33 years and have not done much in the way tomaintain it. I have used it for turning, facing, threading and millingjust as you would expect a lathe to be used. It has performed as expectedfor a medium duty lathe (my opinion after all these years). I built a newshop and was in the market a year ago for a new lathe and was in stickershock. I instead decided to fix her up. I bought a new Jet Mill/Drillinstead. ;-)

The five things I decided to do for my lathe were: clean, adjust, new leadscrew and half nut, new chuck and a new tool post. With everything else onthe machine looking fit I started out buying a Phase 2 tool post andcleaning the machine. Taking the carriage apart I found that it was filthyand loose on all the fasteners. I was fortunate that the gears had notcome apart from looseness and stress. Once the parts were cleaned Ireplaced the half nut with one I got when I bought the lathe 33 years ago.The old nut and lead screw were excessively worn out. Turning threads werehit-and-miss on accuracy. Taking up the slop with the new nut made makingthe new lead screw much easier.

I went to Tacoma Screw and bought a length of 3/4 X 8 tpi Acme threadedrod. I bought enough to make 3 lead screws. When I took the carriage apartI took out my original screw and measured it for making the new one andreinstalled it. After cutting the lead screw to the proper length Icarefully turned the right end and threaded it 1/2 NFT for the supportbearing side. Being that this is Acme all-thread I had to turn the clutch/gearbox side down and build a 3/4 X 4 inch sleeve to fit over the end. Imade the sleeve with an interference fit and fitted it with a 1/4 X 20 setscrew. Now I was ready to mill the key slot for the compound travel.

I clamped the lead screw into V blocks on my Mill Drill and used a 1/8thcarbide end mill for the task. I was only able to make 7 inch passes andhad to remount the screw each time. To make it true to the last cut I madea "fence" that fit into the table of the Mill and has cutouts for the Vblocks to fit into on the back edge. I was able to keep the screw squareto the table however keeping the groove straight down the axis was hard todo. Since making this first screw I bought new toolmaker V blocks withclamps. My next screw will be clamped in a way that I can move it for each

cut and keep the groove straight up and down. I was able to make it thoughwithout the new blocks, but it was painstaking to line up each time.

The finished product has created a nice tight fit in the lead screw tohalf nut. The slop is now gone and I essentially have a new lathe with mynew 6 inch Bison chuck added too.

If anyone has any questions making a lead screw I'm willing to sharepictures and help. A new lead screw makes all the difference in finish,especially in threading.

Cheers,ErnieA Milwaukie, OR

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Half nut lever will not move [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "mudhop1532" dallasgx~xxwindstream.netDate: Thu Feb 11, 2010 10:00 am ((PST))

Hi all, I am a new member with a question. I have a Craftsman 101 27440and the half nut lever will not move. I have not used it much since Ibought it and now notice the lever would not go down.

I sprayed penetrating oil in the oil hole and around the half nuts on theback and was able to force it down and up a couple of times but it is waytoo hard and I am afraid of damaging the half nuts. Can anyone suggest areason this might be bound up?

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "James Walther" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Feb 11, 2010 11:02 am ((PST))

There should be a set screw near the lever. This screw holds a spring andball that act as the detent, holding the half-nuts open or closed. Removethe screw and see if you can remove the spring and ball. If you are ableto remove the spring and ball, that ought to free up the mechanism, unlessthere is a monster burr on the back of one of the half-nuts.

If you can't get the spring and ball out or if that doesn't free thingsup, AND the half-nuts are currently disengaged, remove the carriage andthen take the whole half-nut assembly off and find out what's hangingit up.

If the half-nuts are stuck engaged, I'm out of suggestions!

Good luck!

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Thu Feb 11, 2010 12:23 pm ((PST))

Add on to James:"If the half-nuts are stuck engaged, I'm out of suggestions!"

Then rotate the lead screw to move the carriage off the end of the travel.It is a good idea to remove it once and a while to clean and oil. Thetraverse gearset is not in a place to get oiled any other way that I knowabout. And also, then you can remove the half nut guides and half nutsand clean the threads while at it. Toothbrush and kerosene works well.Household ammonia works if they have plain dirt on them.

Rinse, dry, oil and bingo. I clean the lead screw with cotton twine.Careful to not wrap the twine around a finger if doing it with power.I did not have to try that one to learn.

chart

[and in a later message]Update, I forgot something. When removing the carriage, move it down nearthe tail end with the crank. Then remove the lead screw bearing. Once thebearing is removed, the lead screw drops down and needs to be supportedin a neutral positon so as to clear the half nuts.

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Thu Feb 11, 2010 7:33 pm ((PST))

You've got to take it apart and clean and lube the parts properly. Ithink there is a spring and ball detent for it, too, and that may havegotten fouled up.

The mechanism is not real complicated, but the scroll-cam that engages thesliding nut halves is Zamak and delicate, you don't want to break it.Remove the right-end leadscrew bracket and slide the screw all the wayout. It just has a keyway on the left end and should be free to come out.Remove two really large Phillips screws on the top of the saddle. Theapron should be relatively free to come down, it has two dowel pins thatalign it to the carriage. Remove the screw in the nut engaging handle andthe rest should come apart very easily.

Jon

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "Raymond" mondosmetalsx~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Feb 11, 2010 8:09 pm ((PST))

Are you trying to move this lever down with the leadscrew turning, or notturning? If not turning then move the carriage slightly left or right. Thelands of the half-nut threads are hitting the lands on the leadscrewthreads and not falling into the leadscrew thread grooves.

If while the leadscrew is turning, don't force it. Feel for it to gentlydrop into place. Again, the lands of the half-nut threads are not alignedwith the grooves in the leadscrew. The slower the leadscrew is turning themore patience you will need to feel for this to drop into place.

Now all that said, if you are still having trouble then remove theleadscrew bearing from the right end of the bed and gently but firmly pullthe entire leadscrew out to the right. Now you can crank the carriagehandweel clockwise until the pinion runs out of rack, then slide thecarriage off the end of the bed. Dissassembly this and clean thoroughly.Apply moderate amounts of machine oil when reassembling.

Raymond

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "mudhop1532" dallasgx~xxwindstream.netDate: Fri Feb 12, 2010 6:28 am ((PST))

Jon Elson wrote:> You've got to take it apart and clean and lube the parts properly.

Thanks to all for your tips. I gathered that disassembly and clean andlube was what was needed. You guys have provided a wealth of informationon how to disassemble.

Chart wrote:> It is a good idea to remove it once and a while to clean and oil. The> traverse gearset is not in a place to get oiled any other way that I> know about.

Great tip about the traverse gearset - thanks. What is the best lube forthe traverse gearset given it is so hard to access?

So of the two methods - remove the carriage or remove the apron - whichis the preferred?

Thanks again - I will let you know when it is fixed how it went.

Dallas

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:00 am ((PST))

Re to mudhop: The apron/carriage is the same thing. <snip>

As to oil types. I spent years in maintenance of machines. Lube suppliersalways had special oils for this and that. BUT: I will say 98% of wear andfailures are from lack of lube, not what kind. Key were missed lube pointsand failed automatic oiler units. Machines lubed correctly often lasteda lifetime.

Tip: the screw that holds the chip guard on the back of the cross slide isan oil point, not labeled on my machine. Remove the screw and you have adirect port to the cross slide nut.

Good luck.chart

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Fri Feb 12, 2010 8:57 am ((PST))

The apron hangs on the front of the carriage and is held on by two screwsin from the top of the carriage. The apron can be removed from thecarriage without taking the carriage off of the bed ways. Take the leadscrew support bearing off of the right end of the screw and with the halfnut open you can pull the lead screw out of the machine. Take out the twolarge screws on the top of the carriage and the apron will drop down offof the carriage. The apron should be removed occasionally for cleaning,inspection, tightening and lubricating. It's not a big job.

Bill

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Re: Half nut My ErrorPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Fri Feb 12, 2010 9:35 am ((PST))

I was mistaken thinking yours was 6". The 10 and 12" have a removableapron while the 6" in one piece.

Then see parts on ebay using search "Atlas 12" lathe". Atlas and

Craftsman are together.

chart

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Re: Half nut lever will not movePosted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" olewilly2000Date: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:07 am ((PST))

On my twelve inch Atlas there are shims between the apron and thecarriage. I would never have discovered this until I had a jam in thetraverse gear that engages the rack and one of the shims came out whenremoving the apron. As a further note, visual inspection did not showany problem with the gear that engages the rack, but close inspection and"prodding" with a feeler showed that swarf had imbedded itself into the"gulleys" of the gear. Took a scriber and cleaned out the old swarf andnow all works fine. (Replaced the shims where I found them.)

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Re: Headstock disassembly [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:08 pm ((PDT))

On 3/16/2010 5:14 PM, scubanarc wrote:> Hey guys, I've decided to do a complete tear down and cleaning on my101.07403 12" X 36" lathe. I do not have the Atlas manual. I have seensome good instructions for tearing down the head stock like this one:http://www.atlas-press.com/tb_10bg.htmBut that is for the 10", and I have the 12". Can anyone point me in theright direction for head stock tear down instructions? <

That should work fine for the early 12", everything looks the same. Thefull list of bullitens is located here:http://www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htm

The 12" one there is for later models.

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:49 pm ((PDT))

Hey Jason: Tearing down the headstock is pretty straightforward.

Take the chuck off the spindle nose first. Basically, the spindle pullsout of the assembly from the chuck end of the headstock. There is a setscrew in the screw on adjusting collar on the back end of the spindle anda set screw in the collar just behind the small back gear. Loosen thosescrews and remove the screw on adjusting collar, the feed drive gear andthe rear bearing spacer from the back of the spindle.

You will see a woodruff key slot under the gear you removed. Keep this

keyway pointed up. There is also a key under the big front back gear andit will be pointed up also and it needs to be up to go through a slot thatis cut for it in the front bearing dust cover just ahead of it as you pullthe spindle (unless someone else has put the dust cover in out ofposition). Don't drive the spindle out of the headstock, pull it.

To make a puller, go to the hardware store and get a 3" PVC pipe couplingand a piece of 1/2" all thread long enough to go through the spindle andcoupling and a few inches extra, and a couple of nuts to go on it. Youwill need to make a couple of special washers for this. One to go in theback of the spindle (you may find a store-bought washer the right size forthis one) and one to go over the PVC at the front for the all thread to gothrough.

Put the PVC coupling over the front bearing dust cover and put the allthread through the big washer and the spindle and put the washer and nuton the back. Now you can screw the spindle out of the gears and pulleywithout hammering on anything. If you need to bump anything as you go, usea soft face hammer. Put some wooden wedges between the large front backgear and the housing so you can watch for that key to come out of the gearand make sure it lines up with the slot in the dust cover. As soon as youpull the spindle far enough to clear the rear bearing surface, it willslip apart the rest of the way. The front bearing is going to pull withthe spindle. The object is not to break anything.

With some minor adjustments, you can turn the puller around and pullthe spindle back in when you are ready. Just use your head and think asyou go.

Bill in Houston

[Later message] I should have proof read this. I forgot to include theset screw in the large front back gear has to be loosened also.

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:23 pm ((PDT))

Re to scuSee post 61619.

What is missing is how tight to tighten tapered roller bearings.Tighten until all slack is gone, then another 1/16 turn.

chart

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "scubanarc" scubanarcx~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:02 pm ((PDT))

Bill: Thanks for the excellent instructions. They seem to be getting mesomewhere. So far I have removed the adjusting collar, the small backgear, and the collar in front of that gear. I think that what I removednext is the rear bearing spacer. When I removed it the bearing wasexposed. I left what I think is the bearing spacer on the spindle andtook a picture. Can you please verify that I am on the right track. Isthat indeed the bearing spacer, and have I done this correctly so far?

Does the bearing come out the back?What kind of bearing is this? Timken?

See this image:http://efundies.com/pictures/atlas_lathe_back_bearing.jpg

Thanks for all the help.jason

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:18 pm ((PDT))

You are right on Jason. Yes that is a Timken tapered roller bearing. Therear bearing will stay in the housing when you pull the spindle, thefront bearing will push off the front dust cover and come out with thespindle. After you get the spindle out, you will want to pull the backbearing dust cover and take the back roller out and clean it. Do not tryto remove the races that are pressed into the housing. They can be cleanedin place. While you are cleaning the roller bearings, look for a dateetched into the edge of their races. They used to etch the manufacturingdate of the machine into the roller bearings.

When you get the set screws in the back collar and the front big gearloose, turn the woodruff key slot up, put a wooden wedge between the bigfront gear and the front housing to hold it in place and you are ready tostart pulling the spindle. Go slow and watch for the front key to come outof the front gear and line up with a key slot in the front inside dustcover. Keep at it, you're getting there

Bill

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:21 pm ((PDT))

I don't remember any slot in the front dust cover on mine. It is not

needed as you can pull the key out before it hits the cover.

Scott

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Thu Mar 18, 2010 8:33 pm ((PDT))

I haven't worked on them all but the two 101.07403s I have worked on bothhad a slot for that key. Getting the woodruff key out isn't too bad butputting it back on re-installation would be a tedious job while trying toget everything else aligned too. The slot is nice. If the slot is notthere, he will have to pull the key with a pair of pliers before it getsto the dust cover. I'd slot the dust cover before I put it back if it weremine.

Bill

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Re: Headstock disassemblyPosted by: "scubanarc" scubanarcx~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Mar 19, 2010 3:06 pm ((PDT))

The headstock is out :) Turns out my front left dust cover does not havea woodruff slot cut in it. Of course I didn't realize this because therewas so much gunk down there and by the time I figured it out I had alreadycut a new woodruff sized hole in the dust cover as I forced the keythrough it. I'm pretty sure I can straighten the dust cover out and makeit look nice, and as an advantage it will have a slot for reinstalling theheadstock.

If I had it to do again I would have cleaned up the mess down there andpulled the key with a pair of pliers like Scott suggested, but hindsightis useless.

Are there replacement dust covers available that I can buy?

jason

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Un-Stressing the Lathe Bed [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:37 am ((PDT))

Un Stressing The Lathe Bed

This is for a 4 bolt attachment lathes. It is about making the lathe

comply with itself and not the base it is attached to. Idea is toun-stress the bed and let it self align.

1. Loosen the two bolts at the tail end a significant amount.2. Use a screwdriver to wedge the bed off the table by a few thousandths.3. Wedge should be in center of the bed between the near side and far side feet.4. Use a feeler gage to compare the gap between the feet and table on each side.5. Add a shim, equal to the difference under the higher side foot.6. Remove the screw driver7. Tighten the bolts.8. You are done.

Hints: 'Push' the screwdriver in as a wedge. If the gap between the tableand lathe frame is too large for your screwdriver, use a block appropriateto fill the gap. Be certain there is no debris between the lathe feet andthe table.

The lathe does not care if it is level or not. No expensive tools needed.Meets the requirement.

chart

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Re: Un-Stressing the Lathe BedPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:44 pm ((PDT))

Unless you use SOME method to verify the twist, or lack of twist, thisseems totally unworkable in practice. Maybe if you put the lathe on agranite flat, but your tabletop is almost certainly NOT flat and planarand it WILL "give" when the tightening is done. Not to mention that thelathe may not itself be flat.

I have noticed that the last bit of "un-twisting" is generallyaccomplished by varying the tightness of hold-down bolts. Surprisingly,it holds well over time. But that proves the idea that you cannot just"set it" and then "tighten down" ... the tightening process will pull itout of alignment almost certainly.

JT

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Uploaded Craftsman Manual in PDF format [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "pdjohnson07" pdjohnson07x~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Apr 2, 2010 12:05 pm ((PDT))

I didn't see one uploaded so I scanned mine and then added some pagesfrom the scans that were already in the files section. I took most of

the scans from my manual as the ones already uploaded are very largeand would have created a large file. As it is, the PDF I uploaded wasjust under the limit.

The manual is under the Craftsman Manual folder in the files section.File name is Full_Combine.pdf.

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[atlas618lathe]Uploaded 3 and 4 Jaw chuck maintenance and mounting instructions...Posted by: "pdjohnson07" pdjohnson07x~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Apr 2, 2010 12:05 pm ((PDT))

I know there is already a PDF in the files section but it did not includethe maintenance instructions that are on the back side of the mountinginstructions, at least it is that way for mine. Anyway, I thought thatsome of you might find it interesting. The file name is chuck.pdf and itis in the files section.

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[atlas_craftsman]101.07043 Lathe: Spindle Collar Set Screw "Thread Protectors?Posted by: "BERNARD POKORSKI" calchuckx~xxprodigy.netDate: Sat Apr 3, 2010 12:24 pm ((PDT))

Hi, Yesterday, I disassembled the rear part of my lathe's spindle to checkits build date. During the disassembly process, I noticed during thespindle collar removal that the 'thread protectors' that are mentioned inthe disassembly instructions were MIA. They must have been lost sometimein the lathe's past... long before I got it.

I suspect that the 'thread protectors' are to prevent the set screws inthe spindle collar from damaging the threads on the spindle. In thelathe's parts diagram, they list only the spindle collar itself: Part# 9-32. Can anyone tell me what these 'thread protectors' were made of?I suspect that they are no longer available, and I'd like to figure outa substitute for them.

The parts diagram also shows a part # 9-124 a "plug" (between the collarand the spindle gear in the parts diagram), I didn't see anything likethat on my lathe... any idea what that's for?

One final question, I also noticed a hole drilled in one spot on thethreaded end of the spindle..... making me wonder what it's there for.

Thank you for your time.......Regards,Bernie....A Little Bit South of Grass Valley, CAhttp://community.webshots.com/user/sonofasingerman

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Re: 101.07043 Lathe: Spindle Collar Set Screw "Thread Protectors?Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Sat Apr 3, 2010 12:34 pm ((PDT))

Re to Bernard: I have seen that pulg and it sayed in the nut so I did notbother it. The plug had the threads cut into it, and the other end had theset screw push against that plug. I took the set screw out and left theplug in place. No way would I bother it as the threads are cut right intoit. It keeps the nut secure without damage to the spindle threads. Thespindle is thin and shoud not have a flat on it. You could make a plug outof brass and OD it to just barely slip into the tapped hole. I think it is#8 but have to check. Then your set screw would just push it against thespindle thread for securing the nut.

chart

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Re: 101.07043 Lathe: Spindle Collar Set Screw "Thread Protectors?Posted by: "n8as1x~xxaol.com" docn8asDate: Sat Apr 3, 2010 1:17 pm ((PDT))

piece of lead shot under set screw works well

best wishesdocn8as

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Re: 101.07043 Lathe: Spindle Collar Set Screw "Threa d Protectors?Posted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Sat Apr 3, 2010 12:56 pm ((PDT))

I used a couple of pieces of #8 lead shot. They mash out into a nicethread protector.

Bill

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Re: 101.07043 Lathe: Spindle Collar Set Screw "Threa d Protectors?Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 9:53 am ((PDT))

In my experience the lead sometimes tends to get jammed in the threads,making unscrewing difficult. The pads on my machines have all been madeof brass - can't vouch for whether they are original or not, but alsowork well.

Regards,Carvel

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[atlas_craftsman]Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "joegourlay" jgourlayx~xxmindspring.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 11:45 am ((PDT))

Folks, I would deeply appreciate your suggestions on a 1944 AtlasCraftsman 12x36" lathe. The lathe is in great shape, and I've had it forabout 8 years. I religiously oil the heck out of everything.

Last night I was using and it worked fine. This morning I came back outand it wouldn't start. You can hear the "hum" of the motor, but no go.After futzing around with it for a few hours, here is what I've found/did.

1. the motor shaft was hot spinning as freely as I'd like. Note thatI've never taken the belt of to benchmark "normal". But it doesn't totallyfreewheel like the spindle. It would not start under no load. I don't knowif this is a permanent magnet style motor. If so, that might explain thedrag.

2. I spritzed in a bunch degreaser and worked the shaft quite a bit, thenput in some #10. Started right up. But it's intermittment. Sometimes itwill start under no load, sometimes not. If I give the pulley a littlespin, it will start every time (no load).

3. Put a thermocouple on the body and let it run for 10 minutes with noload. The temp rise was 23 degrees in 10 minutes. Again, I don't know ifthis is normal or not. There is the slightest whiff of "electrical" smell.I haven't noticed this before.

4. Counter shaft is much stiffer than I would expect. Again, I've neverreally paid attention to this, but it's definitely stiffer than what Iwould consider normal for any shaft. Again, this has all been very welloiled. Degreaser in the cups followed by oil seems to make no difference.Motor WILL NOT start, even with a spin, if it's attached to thecountershaft and the countershaft is no load. Looking at the bearings,I don't see any evidence of worn or crushed bearings, but then again Ihaven't gotten the shaft out either: I'm just looking at the ends.

I figured I'd post here before taking everything apart (ie, riskingserious damage through ignorance/stupidity). Any suggestions?

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 12:21 pm ((PDT))

Two problems here.

1) Your countershaft should not be so stiff. Do what you can to loosen itup. This may include putting new bushings or bearings in it (I've nevertaken mine apart, so I can't tell you how this is done.) Before you trythat, unpack the bearing cups, pack them with grease and screw them downtight. This will force grease through the races. If this doesn't help,you're probably on to tearing it down. The countershaft should turn withvery little friction.

2) Depending on what sort of motor you have, it may or may not be designedto be able to start against a load. Fixing the countershaft will, asyou've already observed, eliminate the load issue. Some temperature riseis OK once it's running. If you see smoke, it's over. Until you see smoke,if it turns and does work, it's still a working motor. From the sound ofthings, the countershaft is your trouble, but the motor's start windingsmay be headed south.

My sage counsel (worth what you paid for it): Fix the countershaftbearing, then worry about the motor.

William A.

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "Joe R" jromasx~xxcolumbus.rr.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 12:27 pm ((PDT))

The hum indicates the start winding is not working.

Does your lathe have a starting cap? If so it is most likely your problem.Also there's a set of contacts inside the motor that are supposed to beclosed when the motor is shut off. These contacts energize the startingcoil when you apply power then at a predetermined speed a centrifugal armopens them cutting off the starting windings. These contacts can getburned or in the case of woodworking machines saw dust between thecontacts may prevent the start winding to be operated.

You're going to need to remove the motor end bell where the cord goes inand look around. Doing so you'll need to remove some wires being carefulthat you know exactly where they go back on. If this is above you thenI suggest you take it to a motor shop. But be advised they don't work forfree and you could end up spending a good amount of $$ on a old motor.

Joe R.

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 12:36 pm ((PDT))

If it is a 'capacitor start' type motor, then it sounds like the startingcircuit needs some TLC .

The fact that it starts sometimes, and other times not points to a looseconnection, or a suspect centrifugal switch. If Ok check the start windingand the capacitor - see files for wiring diagrams ,

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 1:08 pm ((PDT))

Joe, When you release the motor and spindle belt tension on thecountershaft pulley, it should spin freely. If it doesn't, you need topull it apart and clean the bearings and shaft ends. If after you cleanthem up the shaft is sloppy in the bearings, you need to replace thesleeve bearings in the bracket and maybe the shaft if it is worn badlyon the ends. Just oiling these old machines doesn't keep them clean andcrud builds up in the bearings. If the countershaft is free, you havesome sort of motor problem. My air compressor wouldn't start every time.Sometimes it would try to start and then quit. I fooled around lookingfor the problem in the motor for an hour or so and finally found thatthe screws in power cord plug were loose. It can be that simple. Don'tassume, like I did, that all that stuff is ok. Check all connectionsfrom the plug to the motor for continuity. Electric cords get old andthe wire inside the insulation breaks. The motor bearings should be freespinning also. If they are not, they have to be fixed and just oilingthem again won't fix it.

If you are not comfortable with taking the motor apart, find a repairshop to clean and put new bearings in your motor and check it outelectrically. Check price, you may find a new fractional horsepowermotor cheaper than the repair. Look for a used motor on Craigslist orsomething.

Bill

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "joegourlay" jgourlayx~xxmindspring.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 2:09 pm ((PDT))

Could you walk me through, step by step, the right way to remove thecounter shaft?

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/motor at countershaftPosted by: "joegourlay" jgourlayx~xxmindspring.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 7:25 pm ((PDT))

Bill, as I start to work the shaft out, the drive cone wants to bump intothe gear. This may not be bad, but it can't be good. Also, i am having totap it out with a wooden dowel. Is there a good way to isolate the drivecone?

This may seem like a stupid question, but I really value the methods ofothers who have already done this kind of thing.

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/moto r at countershaftPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 2:42 pm ((PDT))

I am assuming your 12" 1944 machine is of the 101.07403 type.

Take the belt off of the motor and take the tension off of the spindlebelt so that the counter shaft is free. If the shaft is all gunked up withoil, rust and dirt, clean it up as best you can. There is a set screw inthe step pulley hub that holds it in place on the shaft. Loosen the setscrew. There is a set screw in the collar on the motor pulley end of theshaft. Loosen that set screw. Move that collar in toward the step pulleyfar enough to check the shaft for a set screw mark on the shaft that needsto be filed off before you pull the shaft through the bearing.

Now, the shaft should pull out from the motor pulley end. There is awoodruff key under the step pulley, watch for it to come out from underthe pulley and pull it out of the shaft with a pair of pliers. You mayhave to wiggle the shaft back and forth using some WD40 or something toloosen the gunk on the shaft so it will pull through the pulley, collarand bearing.

Don't beat on it with a hammer. You might have to take a wooden stick anduse a hammer to tap the stick against the hub of the step pulley to workthe pulley off of the woodruff key. Take your time, work it out, don'ttear it out. You can break the counter shaft bracket if you try to drivethe shaft out with hammer and punch.

If you have to replace the bronze bushings in the bracket, remember tosupport each bearing race as you remove and replace the bushings. Rememberto put your spindle belt back over the shaft when you put it backtogether. You don't want to get it all back together and then see thespindle belt hanging loose on the spindle. That kinda takes the wind outof your sails.

I hope this helps.

Bill

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/moto r at countershaftPosted by: "joegourlay" jgourlayx~xxmindspring.comDate: Sun Apr 4, 2010 5:12 pm ((PDT))

Bill, thanks! The admonitions about things like the set screw burr aregolden!

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/moto r at countershaftPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Mon Apr 5, 2010 6:48 am ((PDT))

Getting the cone pulley off of the woodruff key is the hard part. Ittakes patience. Work from the drive pulley end with your dowel. Stick itthrough the spokes in the big pulley and drive on the hub of the conepulley.

You have about 3/8" between the cone pulley and the big back gear to workwith. After you move the cone pulley as far as it will go, put somethingbetween the spoked pulley and the bracket to hold it there and use thedowel to move the cone pulley again. A pair of vice grips will hold thespace you create between the spoked pulley and the bracket while you movethe cone pulley. Once the cone pulley is off the woodruff key you cantwist the shaft back and forth to work it out the rest of the way.

With a one piece belt on the spindle, you don't have much other choice forgetting it apart. If you had a link belt, you could take the belt off andlet the countershaft bracket tilt back beyond the big back gear. But, evenin that case, you can't just get a bigger hammer and beat it off of there.You have to take these old machines apart, you can't beat them apartunless you want to spend a lot of time an money looking for and buyingparts.

Keep at it.

Bill

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/moto r at countershaftPosted by: "joegourlay" jgourlayx~xxmindspring.comDate: Tue Apr 6, 2010 6:19 pm ((PDT))

Bill, for some reason what I thought I posted last night didn't take.

It appears the problem is with the two forks being differentiallystressed. Long story short, if I put a wood block under the motor, andremove the drive belt (I do have link belt btw), the countershaft runsfree.

However, if I remove the belt and let the assembly hang there with nowood block behind the motor, it is tight.

What do you think?

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Re: Please help: 1944 A/C lathe problems w/moto r at countershaftPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Tue Apr 6, 2010 6:59 pm ((PDT))

Did you get this reply from me last night Joe? It came from and went tomgourlayx~xxmi...........

"Good evening Joe,

That key is a little woodruff about 1/8" wide. If you can't find it youmight take the shaft to an Ace Hardware or Sears Hardware and find one tofit it. It is an American standard size, not metric. I lost mine too andmade one out of a piece of 1/8" flat bar by grinding one corner to aradius that would fit into the slot then cut it off to the right heightwith a hacksaw.

Take some steel wool, Scotch Brite, 600 grit wet or dry paper or some suchand buff up the inside surface of those bearings in the bracket. (Buff theend of the shaft too while you are at it.) If they are porous, you shouldbe able to see that the surface is not polished like solid bronze wouldbe. Even if they are porous it wouldn't hurt to drill a real small (1/32")hole through it from the oil cup then put some felt or cotton in the cupto slow the oil flow.

Motor oil gets old and gummy and stops up Oilite bearings. They are madeto be lubed with a lite oil like 3-n-1. I wouldn't worry about the smallimperfections inside them.

As for the forks,I'm surprised that it twists that easily. It has thetensioner rod on the motor pulley side pushing against the belt when it isin place and the weight of the motor hanging off the end of it. It may bethat your bearings are just too tight. Check it again after you clean themout with the fine abrasive. Look closely to make sure that there are nocracks in the legs or cross bars of the bracket.

If it is still tight, you might put the shaft into the bearings and take aplastic faced hammer and smack the shaft right up next to the bearings asyou turn the shaft and see if that will shift the sleeves in the bracketenough to free it up. I almost always have to do that with new sleeve

bearings to align them so the shaft will be completely free.

Hope this helps"Bill

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Clean and oil Thoughts [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "catboat15x~xxaol.com" olewilly2000Date: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:35 pm ((PDT))

The thing about oiling your Atlas is learning where some of the "hidden"oil ports are located. There is one down in the bottom of the clusterpulleys on the spindle. This allows you to oil the bearings on the clusterpulley which turns separately from the spindle when in back gear.

There are also points to oil reached by removing slot head screws on thecompound and cross slide that allow oil to reach the nuts on those slides.And don't forget that one on right hand end of the lead screw.

Of course the change gears (If like mine with loose gears) need a bit oflube both on the gear studs and on the teeth to avoid that "clatter". (Iuse a grease from Molylube on the gear teeth.)

The lubrication on an Atlas is a full loss system where the oil just dripsthrough and ends up on the bench. That is the reason Atlas recommended a"non detergent" oil for spindles. Detergent oils are great for automobileengines where the oil is circulated through a filter, but we don't want tosuspend the crud in the oil but use the oil to wash through the junk andcrud you may have gathered and carry it out onto your bench, oil pan orfloor.

Don't wear your "Sunday go to meeting" best clothes when using your lathe.It is not a clean hobby like stamp collecting. Take off watches, rings andnecktie before getting close to rotating parts. A tool that can cut metalhas no trouble at all to cut skin and meat.

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Re: Clean and oil ThoughtsPosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:55 pm ((PDT))

One interesting lube point is at the right side of the apron. A set screwis removed to allow lubing the scroll and half nuts.

As I reassembled my A/C 12, I circled all the lube points on the machinewith a silver paint pen. I'll see how long the paint lasts under a

constant flow of total loss oil.

lance

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Re: Clean and oil ThoughtsPosted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Apr 23, 2010 8:10 pm ((PDT))

Use an enamel paint marker. They come in a rainbow of colors.I use yellow for them to stand out.

db

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NOTE TO FILE: Many questions you might have about fixing or using anAtlas lathe may be found here. A truly valuable site:http://bellsouthpwp.net/t/h/thib9564/Atlas_Lathe.htm

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Darn gear broke [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Rods machine shop and suzuki repair"rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.comDate: Sat May 29, 2010 3:57 pm ((PDT))

Well was turning something on my 12 inch craftsman lathe and thetransverse gear broke. Took the carriage off lathe and found someonehad tried to fix the gear housing before that holds the gears whata crappy aluminum weld job. Lol saw a piece of the weld came looseand jammed the gears breaking the small 12 tooth gear that runs onthe long feed shaft on the side of lathe. I was going to tig weld itbut instead will make the gear holding housing out of a block ofsteel or from a new block of aluminum. Never did like cast aluminumsince not as strong as made from a machined block of aluminum.

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Re: Darn gear brokePosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sat May 29, 2010 4:12 pm ((PDT))

One of the most oft broken parts on the Atlas lathes. Not made from Al,made from cast Zamak, with strength = cardboard. 6061 Al alloy would beas strong as mild steel and easier to machine.

lance

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Re: Darn gear brokePosted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.comDate: Sat May 29, 2010 4:26 pm ((PDT))

Here's the replacement I made for mine.

http://tony-stormcrow.blogspot.com/2009/06/replacing-atlascraftsman-part-9-11.html

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Re: Darn gear brokePosted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.comDate: Sat May 29, 2010 5:59 pm ((PDT))

On May 29, 2010, at 8:49 PM, Rods machine shop and suzuki repair wrote:> the unit is a nice but would make it with threaded holes heli coiled> so dont have to fight to get to the nuts to tighten would make holes> in carriage larger to adjust for gear back lash and fit.

There isn't much iron in the aprons, the old style aprons, anyway.There's a plateau of iron where the bolt holes are, and air otherwise.Not a lot of room to adjust. The nuts were easy enough to get on. Theheli coil is a good idea however. I ended up having to file the holesin the aluminum a little to get the best fit. I got mine to about 95%of where I would liked. It will last the rest of my life.

Had I marked the mounting holes in the aluminum part with a transferpunch as the last operation, it would have fit nearly perfectly straightaway.

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Re: Alloys <Darn gear broke> [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon May 31, 2010 2:33 pm ((PDT))

ahz wrote:> A lot of things are made of Zamak, to this day. Zamak, like brussels> sprouts, can be used for good or for evil.> Most Atlas Zamak parts are ok.> That being said, Zamak was a poor choice for the the carriage gear> housing (part 9-11)

Actually, I think Zamak would have been OK for this part, but it neededa little more beef at the stress concentration points, where the "legs"join the plate. The real problem, I THINK, with this part is the screwsholding it to the apron work loose, putting much grater stress on thelegs. I noticed this early on my lathe, and made a regular point ofchecking the screws and tightening them. Maybe that is why I never brokemy gear box.

Jon

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Re: How I removed the bearing race [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Mon May 31, 2010 5:18 am ((PDT))

Dave Hylands wrote:> I thought I would document how I removed the outer bearing race from

my 12x36. I used the same technique to remove the spindle as well.http://picasaweb.google.com/dhylands/AtlasBearingRemoval?authkey=Gv1sRgCPjLiLvkrdvusQE#This worked really well. I tried using a hammer and block of wood on thespindle, but it didn't budge. With the "all thread press" it just slidout nice and easy. Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canadahttp://www.DaveHylands.com/ <

Re to Dave: Nice idea and quite clever.

I might add a thought or two. Pressing them back in can work equally wellbut you need a different size pusher. This is where the scrap parts boxhelps. Also, you can use a large washer and turn the OD to match theneed, but of course it would need to be done before you take your latheout of service. {;-))

I have a bushing drive set but it only goes up to 1 1/2". I got anassortment of large washers at a surplus store by the pound and I got thebrass ones of various sizes.

Have a fine Memorial Day.

chart

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.comDate: Mon May 31, 2010 8:18 pm ((PDT))

Hi chart,Actually, I was able to use the 2" pipe joiner piece to remove andreplace both the left and right outer races on my 12x36. The cover caps(not sure what the proper name is) were a different matter altogether.

I also had to back off the right oil cover (this is the inner cover platefor the right bearing) slightly. It was so tight against the outer bearingthat no oil would drip through from the oiling cap. Giving it a love tapbacked it off enough to allow the oil to flow.

Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canadahttp://www.DaveHylands.com/

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "oldstudentmsgt" wmrmeyersx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Mon May 31, 2010 9:49 am ((PDT))

I have a set of 3/4" drive sockets, and often use them to drive bearingsand seals. IIRC, the largest socket is for 54mm nuts, it's about 2-3/4'sinches in diameter, and will easily take a piece of 1/2" allthread. Works

fine for hammer drive, too. Smallest is about an inch.

Hope this helps!Bill in OKC

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "rod rowzee" rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.comDate: Mon May 31, 2010 10:04 am ((PDT))

Best to use a bear race installer. They are cheap.http://www.tooltopia.com/astro-pneumatic-7824.aspx?utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=AST7824&utm_campaign=nextag_r1

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "oldstudentmsgt" wmrmeyersx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 9:21 am ((PDT))

"Best' is the enemy of "Good Enough." I've got the socket set, for whichI paid less than the tool you linked. If I were doing this sort of thingprofessionally, it might be different. I think I've done four bearingsin the past 5 or 6 years, and what I have works well enough.

For that matter, with my lathe, I could make a set of drivers like thoseshown, from scrap. If I find myself doing more bearings over the next fewyears, I may go that route. I've actually got a set similar to the link,but with smaller drivers, that I could make more accessories for...

What works for you may be impossible for me because our skills and toolsdiffer, and vice versa. I've been scavenging and making do for most of mylife. Don't get me wrong, I've got "Tool Envy" at least as bad as anyoneelse, but I mostly look for what will work with what I have, not what isthe best tool to buy.

Bill in OKC

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 9:50 am ((PDT))

I'm with you Bill. I'm a home shop mechanic and I don't buy until I haveused up all the resources I have on hand. I make all the tools I amcapable of making and they usually have customised features for the jobthat I am doing that are not available on store bought tools. I don't needa collection of "fits all" tool sets that I used one piece out of one timeand now have no use for the other pieces.

A professional mechanic will have a different take on this because he

never knows what he will run into next.

Bill in Houston

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "Cindy & Wayne Burner" burners4x~xxcomcast.netDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 12:17 pm ((PDT))

I do some front fork seals on motorcycles quite often. A real set ofseal drivers are two piece, and look like a piece pipe slit lengthwise,and machine fit with pins. Most of my homemade ones are aluminum, brass,even PVC. Thanks to my 10" with QCGB.

Wayne(rice)Burner Smokey skies in NH

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "rod rowzee" rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.comDate: Mon May 31, 2010 8:38 pm ((PDT))

A neat trick when pressing something back in: get a green scotch britepad and clean the bore good with it so it is smooth and no rust. Put thebearing races in freezer for a hour; most time the races will just pushin by hand. I do that at my machine shop when installing valve guides;most times they just drop in and I don't even have to press in.

Remember heat expands metal and cold contracts metal. I warm the cylinderheads to like a 190 degrees when installing guides.

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 6:43 am ((PDT))

Re to Rod: "I warm the cylinder heads to like a 190 degrees wheninstalling guides.."

In the good old days, when I first worked on cars, in the 1950's, rearaxle bearings failed often and were a pain to get on. We heated thebearing on a 100W light bulb for 15 minutes, thus the inner race gothotter, and then dropped it on the axle with the flange on a concreteblock and used a washer the right size and a section of pipe as a"thumper". Once you start a thermal fit, you must complete the processquickly or: oh well. On the bearing the retaining ring we would torchuntil it turned blue, and it would drop on.

And the rest of the story. It was important to think twice, assembleonce. The retaining flange goes on first. {;-))

Happy turning and fitting.chart

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 6:20 am ((PDT))

Re to Dave: "had to back off the right oil cover (this is the inner coverplate for the right bearing) slightly."

The book name is dust cover and on mine, a 618 it has a notch to allow oilthrough. If the notch is not aligned, it is useless. One end of mine wouldnot let oil through and that was the first time I took it apart to seewhy. It was not aligned before, and it must have been a factory error.My book calls both the same part no but mine are not alike. One has a keynotch and the other not. Important for easy removal of the spindle withthe key in place.

Of course other lathes will be different, that would be too easy.

Happy turning.chart

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Re: How I removed the bearing racePosted by: "Dave Hylands" dhylandsx~xxgmail.comDate: Tue Jun 1, 2010 11:17 am ((PDT))

Hi Chart: On mine, there are no notches in the dust cover or the bearingrace. The casting on the left side had a notch integrated into thecasting. On the right side, there was no equivalent notch.

It's interesting because the oil goes down between the inner dust coverand the outer bearing race. The only way that oil will get to the outerside of the race bearing is to fill the gap between the dust cover andthe bearing race and then overflow to the other side.

On the left bearing, oil drips down on both sides.

Is this normal? Should I add a notch in the casting?

Getting oil into the right places seems crucial :)

I'm away from my lathe right this week(until Friday), but I can takesome pictures to show what's happening this coming weekend.

Dave Hylands Shuswap, BC, Canadahttp://www.DaveHylands.com/

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[Removing an Atlas Lathe Upper Compound that has Stuck Pins]

Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questions [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "ok.dokay" stevex~xxfinetools.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:54 am ((PDT))

On Jun 17, 2010, Steve Johnson wrote:> > Hi, I am the proud new owner of an old Craftsman 101.07301 lathe.I am trying to disassemble it for inspection and cleaning. Are there anypictures or guidance for this on the Internet? For example, I want toremove the upper compound of the cross-slide. I removed the two allenhead set screws, but the upper still does not want to come off (at leastnot with hand force). It gets noticeably looser, but doesn't pop off. <<

ahz wrote:> There are two angled pins in the holes still. Jiggle it some as youpull upward gently to convince the pins to go into the bolt holes andthe compound will come off. <

I still haven 't success in gently removing the upper compound. I havetotally removed the two allen set screws, and jiggled gently trying toget the pins out, but for some reason they don't seem to be moving. Ihave spun the upper compound around and tried jiggling from variousorientations, still to no avail. What is the next step? I suppose Icould try drilling the pins out, but that seems extreme and risksdamaging a lot of things (threads, compound boss, etc.) I also thoughtof using some instant glue on the end of a small rod to make connectionwith the pins and pull them out, but that could get messy also, sothought I'd ask once more before trying my hair-brained ideas.

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "JACK SIMS" jack-br549x~xxatt.netDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 10:58 am ((PDT))

Have you tried to use a small diameter magnet to try to pull them out?

Jack Sims

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 2:36 pm ((PDT))

Use a small magnet to reach in and pull the pins. If they don't move,use more solvent or rust buster.

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:11 am ((PDT))

The pins do not need to come out, just move back a bit. They are notfrozen or you could not be able to rotate the turret. They have movedsome but not enough. You could spray something like "liquid wrench",then put the screws back in and tighten them down, then take them back

out. That would cause the pins to move a tick in and help the fluid getin there. Haste makes waste. You would likely not be able to drill themout. They would just turn with the drill and you would damage the threadsin the turret. You could repeat the spray and tap the turret with aplastic mallet.

chart

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 12:10 pm ((PDT))

OK: The pins in the hole are tapered on the end to match with a taper onthe compound mounting post to draw the compound down and tight againstthe cross slide when you tighten the screws. To remove the compound youshould be able to loosen the screws and pull up on the compound and rockit slightly back and forth which causes the pins to retreat into the screwholes. Your pins are probably gunked up from years of un-use and driedlubricants and dirt. You are going to need some penetrating oil/solvent.

WD-40 comes to mind, there are others and it probably doesn't matterwhich one you use. Spray it liberally into the screw hole and rotate thecompound on its post and use a soft face mallet to rap it side to side tocause the penetrant to soak through the pin holes. Now pull up on thecompound while tapping it with the soft face mallet. Wiggle it up and downand round and round work it off the post.

If you try to short cut the job and drill, hammer, bang, wedge, force it,you are going to break something and spend a lot of money and time lookingfor parts and fixing stuff. These old machines have to be taken apart, youcan't beat them apart. Be patient, it will come off.

good luck,Bill in Houston

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "ahz" ahzx~xxinsightbb.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 2:45 pm ((PDT))

Here are the parts you're fighting...

http://tony-stormcrow.blogspot.com/2010/05/compound.html

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questions

Posted by: "ok.dokay" stevex~xxfinetools.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 3:31 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Bill. I worked on the slide for about half an hour, at one pointremoving the first two "levels" of the compound so I could work with itoff the lathe. I found a third set screw under the handle so I removedthat one also. I sprayed brake cleaner followed by air followed by Kroilin the holes and tapped with a nylon tip mallet for most of that time.I repeated the process several times. I was about to give up when lo andbehold one of the tapered pins slid out!

At least now I could see the devil I was up against. I sprayed more Kroil,tapped and tapped, even heat it area up and let it cool a couple times.Tapped and tapped. I spent an hour more on it. Neither the pin under thehandle or the other side pin has budged.

What's next?

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 4:17 pm ((PDT))

You're getting there OK, what you need is a six-pack of patience. Don'tbreak something and be careful with a lot of heat around these machines,some of the parts melt at about 700 deg. F.

There are only 2 pins, the ones under the 3/8" square head set screws,that hold that swivel on the cross slide post. The third set screw underthe handle is not holding the swivel base on. You got one of the taperpins out, concentrate on the other one. Stand that assembly up so thetaper pin hole is upright and will hold Kroil and spray it full and letit stand until it completely runs through. After it does, turn it theother way so the pin could fall out and start the tapping, rocking,wiggling and pulling apart of the two pieces. It ain't easy, you justgotta' do it. It will eventually come out.

Ain't old machinery fun??

Bill

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.netDate: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:48 pm ((PDT))

[Mike reported his lathe was missing the pins in this conversation.]

My 618 has them, Mike. Too easy to make to waste postage on buying them.I just pulled one out of my compound and did a quick sketch. Check it out:http://tinyurl.com/24ch5hj

I would make them out of drill rod. Their use would dictate them being

hardened and tempered to blue, similar to the hardness of a chisel. Idon't think you'd want them as hard as you would for a mill cutter, butalmost; certainly not left soft or they would surely deform and upsetin their bores.

Dean

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:34 am ((PDT))

[William Abernathy reported earlier that these pins on his lathe had beenmade from brass.]

Why would you want hardened pins? Make them out of brass, so as not tochew up the cross-slide pintle, as happened to the last one. You can getall the holding power you need without horsing down on the holddown bolts,and if Mongo is really alarmed about the prospect of mushrooming brasspins, Mongo can turn them a little undersized.

William A.

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.netDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 6:44 pm ((PDT))

I don't know who Mongo is, pal, but if you make the pins correctly, theywill not chew up the pintle. Making them out of soft material provides agood chance of upsetting them in the holes, and then you really will havetrouble getting them out.

FWIW, I just checked the ones in my 618, and they are hardened. A filewon't touch them.

Dean

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 7:20 pm ((PDT))

The angle on those pins matches the angle on the cross slide pintle.They don't lock the swivel against the pintle, they lock the swivel byforcing it down against the cross slide to stop the rotation and toprevent chatter. If you make pins out of soft material and turn themundersize they will try to bend under the down forcing of the swiveland if undersized will wobble in the hole and not contact the pintleat the correct angle. Atlas probably knew what they were doing whenthey made them hardened steel.

Bill

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "jmartin957x~xxaol.com"Date: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:09 pm ((PDT))

> Why would you want hardened pins? Make them out of brass... canturn them a little undersized. William A. <

Turn them a little undersized and the fit of the pin in the hole won'tbe the sliding fit that you want for the best support. Make them ofbrass and eventually they will mushroom with use, without horsing downon the screws. If they mushroom, they won't retract into the holes allthe way, and may not allow you to remove the compound. They wereoriginally made of hardened steel for a good reason.

Rust or congealed oil may be the reason the OP is having troubleretracting the pin. If the pin is moving enough to allow the compound tolock and loosen, however, it's more likely that a deformed pin is notallowing it to retract.

John Martin

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:43 am ((PDT))

I don't have a 618 so I am may be out of school here but I do know thatthe OEM pins in the 12" machines are hardened steel. If someone hasbrass pins in a 12" machine, they have been replaced.

Bill

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "James Rice" james.ricex~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:53 am ((PDT))

I have a 101-07301 and my pins are hardened steel. In my case my pins wereso stuck by rust as was the compound assembly I couldn't free them so Ifinally replaced the M6-301 compound rest swivel and the M6-302 tool postswivel.

I tried heat, vibration, electrolysis, heat, magnets, drilling and everytype of penetrating oil I could buy or borrow. After 6 months I gave upand bought the parts on evil-bay. The pins I ordered from Clausing andthey supplied hardened steel pins.

James in Dallas

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "rod rowzee" rrowzee1954x~xxhotmail.comDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:07 am ((PDT))

What works good is just good old candle wax or beeswax. I use wax sticksfrom Goodson Tools to remove rusted oil galley plugs in engine blocks.Just heat the area with a torch and apply a candle stick to area.

http://www.goodson.com/store/template/product_detail.php?IID=4726

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "JACK SIMS" jack-br549x~xxatt.netDate: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:03 pm ((PDT))

I remade the ones for my 12x36" out of hardened dowel pins and groundthe angle on the ends like the original ones and have had NO problemswith them.

Jack Sims Carrollton, Texas

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Lee Miller" goto.lee.1stx~xxgmail.comDate: Mon Jun 28, 2010 10:09 am ((PDT))

David: Maybe not the best way but it worked for me. I took a counter setscrew, cleaned all the parts very well, put some JB Weld on the head ofthe screw. Set the screw head against the pin, let it set up. Then put anut and washer on the threaded side of the screw and pulled it out.

Lee

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Steve Johnson" stevex~xxfinetools.comDate: Mon Jun 28, 2010 2:31 pm ((PDT))

Success! Before trying the last ditch prying effort, I decided to throwthe whole upper into my ultrasonic cleaner for 30 minutes. I think thecombination of cleaning and cavitation action got the pin loose enough tomove and I got things apart.

Thanks everyone for your ideas, especially the suggestions to be patient.That is what saved these parts (and by the way the damn pin was slightlydeformed so I will need to make a new one or relieve the mushrooming onthis one). I think there was one unanswered question about where all theKroil I put into the pin hole went -- it ultimately went through the pinhole, around the "pindle", and out the other side into a bunch of paper

towels. As an aside, I also got to shape a new face for my nylon tappingmallet as the nylon got pretty chewed up on the cast iron.

Steve Johnson

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "JACK SIMS" jack-br549x~xxatt.netDate: Mon Jun 28, 2010 3:12 pm ((PDT))

Patience pays off sometimes. Better than beating the crap out ofeverything, but that feels good sometimes(:-)

Jack Sims Carrollton, Texas

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301 questionsPosted by: "Michael Michalski" pflatlynex~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jun 28, 2010 8:15 pm ((PDT))

If you go up to the Sears website you can find a parts list. What I didwhen I got mine was to take a highlighter and go over the whole list,checking off every part and making sure I had it. It also helped me findsome bubbafied parts that I replaced with the correct ones.

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[Repair Atlas 618 broken counter-shaft]

Re: Max safe spindle speed? [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "Michael Michalski" pflatlynex~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Jun 28, 2010 7:58 pm ((PDT))

The top part of my counter-shaft broke and I made a new one out of angleiron. (I couldn't get the original one to weld, it would just break againat a different spot; in retrospect, I should have reheated it afterwelding and then let it cool in a bucket of sand.)

I started cutting a piece that was as long as the top of the counter-shaftis wide. If I had to do it again I would either braze or weld it withacetylene, because I'm much better at that than arc welding.

I placed two steel bushings sized to accept two oilite bushings that fitthe main pulley shaft on the angle iron (that I bought from the hardwarestore) which kept them aligned co-axially, clamped them and welded themin place. I then did the same with two bushings for the shaft that thetwo pieces pivot on. (The lower part was fine, so I just needed theupper one.)

I then cut all the other pieces which were easy enough to weld into placesince they mostly went at right angles in the same plane. Once I was done

with that, I did a little trimming with a bandsaw and cut the center outof the top part. The key was, since the angle iron was straight, and thebushings sat in the angle iron (I turned it so the angle was down and satit on some wood blocks while welding) they ended up perfectly parallelto the shaft, which my first attempt at making one failed to get right.

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618 ATLAS Spindle Removal Issues... [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "ferroglyph" ferroglyphx~xxhotmail.comDate: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:57 pm ((PDT))

Hi Guys, Thanks for all of the helpful links for spindle removal. I am init right now...but have hit a rather uncomfortable snag.

The instructions have you remove all of the retainers on the LH spindleside. I have done this and loosened all of the set screws, etc. It is nowtime to tap out the spindle to the RH side and remove. It keeps gettingstuck. I have used a plastic hammer to tap gently....and then a littleharder. I originally thought it was the LH bearing hanging up but laternoticed it has an undercut bore so it should just slide out.

Alas I have identified the culprit. The Spindle pulley set has a smallset screw that threads down and locates on the spindle itself. This wasremoved by me and I looked inside...gasp! The set screw had gouged thespindle in that area under the pulley enough to not allow the pulley toslide off the spindle. The gouges are not too deep but will prevent mefrom going further.

Any suggestions on how to remove them? I just can't seem to get to themthe traditional way. The spindle really needs to come off also as thebearing is really dirty!

Any assistance would be a real help...Thank you

The Other Greg S.

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Re: 618 ATLAS Spindle Removal Issues...Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.net deanofidDate: Mon Jul 19, 2010 10:58 pm ((PDT))

Greg, before you go further, read my page about spindle removal forthe 618. The bronze bearing models and the roller bearing models arenot precisely the same, but quite similar.

http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/atlas/spindle/spindle.html

There will be a little room between the end of the large gear and thebearings where you can use a small fine file to remove those burrs. Don'trun them through the bearings!

Do Not Tap On The End Of The Spindle until you have removed the burrsleft from the set screw. The large gear on the spindle also has awoodruff key under it that has to come out.

I think there are enough pics on my webpage to help you out.

Dean

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Re: 618 ATLAS Spindle Removal Issues...Posted by: "ferroglyph" ferroglyphx~xxhotmail.comDate: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:02 pm ((PDT))

Hi Guys! Problem solved. It just hit me! BAM!!! I hemmed and hawed allnight...Until like 3am!!!

"How do I remove the rather substantial burrs/gouges left by the set screwfor the bull gear pulley that were left underneath the pulley surface onthe spindle face?" These lil' buggers prevented the spindle from slidingto release the pulley.

Simple Solution: Then BLAMMO! It's a lathe! Right! I simply put the buttend or a tiny file inside the pulley's threaded hole and held it tight tothe spindle while turning the spindle. The hardened file end scraped theraised edges of the burr flat enough. I blew out the scrapings withcompressed air and Voila! The spindle came out real easy! Unbelievablehow a simple solution can be found after a good night's rest. LOL

Cheers!The Other Greg S.

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adjust half nuts? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "audi200qpilot" las1940x~xxcomcast.netDate: Tue Jul 20, 2010 8:28 pm ((PDT))

The half nuts of my 101.07403 QC lift the lead screw a small amount whenthe nuts are engaged. I have not measured the amount of lift, but byeyeball it appears to be somewhere between a 32nd and 16th. There is nonoticeable binding nor any distressful sounds when the carriage is neareither end of the lead screw, so I suppose there's no real need to correctthe condition, but I am wondering if anyone has encountered a similarmisalignment and worked out a fix. I'd like to see the alignment moreclosely centered. The machine has not been modified, no shims added orremoved, bed ground, etc. No noticeable wear at any area of the ways --the machine is in near new condition.

Thanks for any ideas from you wizards.

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Re: adjust half nuts?

Posted by: "bill phelps" sweetwaterent2000x~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Jul 20, 2010 9:04 pm ((PDT))

If it ain't broke, don't try to fix it. That small amount of lift isnormal as the lead screw probably has a small droop.

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Re: adjust half nuts?Posted by: "audi200qpilot" las1940x~xxcomcast.netDate: Tue Jul 20, 2010 10:04 pm ((PDT))

Thanks, you're probably right about that. I measured the lift with aheight gauge after posting the question, and found it is .021", noteven a 32nd.

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Re: adjust half nuts?Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:25 am ((PDT))

Re to audi. Fix it? If you want near perfection, no problem.

The bearings on each end are held in place by two screws. Loosen themand raise the bearing within the free play in the screw holes to makeyou happy and retighten the screws. You will feel much better for theexperience. I did.

Happy turning.chart

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Re: adjust half nuts?Posted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.netDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 5:13 pm ((PDT))

If it's just a little sag, it shouldn't cause problems. If it's becausethe leadscrew has a slight bend in it though, it can make a differenceto your finish cut. A bend will push up and down (and side to side) onthe half nuts, which can cause the speed of the carriage to vary slightlyas it travels. You would see that in your cuts if it were very pronounced.

Dean

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Spindle Axial Play [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "rjconley2003" rconleyx~xxsocal.rr.comDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:34 pm ((PDT))

I picked up an Atlas TH-36 lathe a few weekends ago. I am slowlydisassembling and cleaning it. It hasn't been run in years so everything

is gunked up, dried out and the P.O. was turning wood on the lathe. Theonly broken parts I have found so far are the tool post slide castingand the handle for the tool post slide.

1) What has me puzzled at the moment is the axial movenent of the twogears and step pulley on the spindle. I can move all 3 about an 1/8"along the spindle. The manual indicates that the small pulley is lockedto the step pulley. That doesn't seem to be the case since I can slidethe step pulley and large bull gear along the shaft and disengage thesmall pulley. Pulling the pin that locks the large bull gear to the steppulley then pushing the three together allows the two gears on the spindleto line up with the gears on the back gear assembly.

Is this axial play normal or are my panties all twisted up over nothing?

2) If I remove the headstock from the bed for cleaning and painting willthere be an alignment issue when I reinstall it? From the posts that Ihave read so far this doen't appear to be an issue.

Bob

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Re: Spindle Axial PlayPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:55 pm ((PDT))

There should be very little axial movement of the gears and pulley on thespindle shaft. The big front gear (bull gear) is keyed to the shaft andheld in place with a set screw. The 4 groove pulley runs right up closeto the bull gear with only enough clearance to let it turn freely on theshaft without dragging on the bull gear.

There is a movable pin in the bull gear that pins it to the pulley fordirect drive. The small gear behind the pulley is "dog clutched" to thepulley and is held against the pulley by an adjustment collar behind itwith a set screw in it. The small gear and the 4 groove pulley have bronzebearing in them so they run freely on the spindle when the back gears areengaged. Look to see if the back adjustment collar is loose or missing onyour spindle.

Bill

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Re: Spindle Axial PlayPosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.netDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 6:59 pm ((PDT))

Go to http://www.atlas-press.com/servicebulletins.htm and look atthe bulletin about removing/replacing spindle. It will show you how

to adjust and/or what piece you're lacking.

Yours,David

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Re: Spindle Axial PlayPosted by: "rjconley2003" rconleyx~xxsocal.rr.comDate: Wed Jul 21, 2010 7:59 pm ((PDT))

Bill: The big bull gear is slipping along the spindle. I found a pointwhere a set screw may be installed but I'll have to excavate the gunk outto see if it's in place and tight. Looks like the collar is in place nextto the small gear. I'll get things apart and cleaned up so they will movefreely and I can see how things work. I suspected the slop was not right.

ThanksBob

[In another message: Thanks to David]

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[atlas618lathe]Re: 618 Belt Tensioner, carriage,cross slide, compound slide questioPosted by: "n2irz" donrotolox~xxoptimum.netDate: Wed Aug 4, 2010 7:41 am ((PDT))

"T" wrote:> the cross slide and compound slide are also very tight. tight> while turning the handles but with a lot of play otherwise> that I know should not be there.

If you have a lot more than 0.010 play, you can buy new nuts for the crossand compound from Clausing for about $20. These are not at all difficultto install.

It is also possible to take out the play from the crossfeed nut, as ashort-term fix. Write back if you need details, but basically you puta slit in the nut, perpendicular to the screw, drill and tap a small holefor an adjusting screw, and compress that bit of nut to remove the play.

Once the lathe is yours, I recommend removing the cross and compoundslides, cleaning, relubricating and readjusting the gibs. That'll makea world of difference.

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Re: 618 Belt Tensioner, carriage,cross slide, compound slide questioPosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net

Date: Wed Aug 4, 2010 2:07 pm ((PDT))

n2irz wrote:>It is also possible to take out the play from the crossfeed nut <snip>and compress that bit of nut to remove the play. <

Or cut a slab off the nut end, rotate it against the screw until theplay is gone and pin/epoxy it in place. Not my trick -- can't rememberwhose, unfortunately. He was working with a larger lathe, might be alittle fiddly with the 618.

Another possibility is to grease the screw and use a Permatex or similarthread-rebuilding kit. For that I think I'd start with a blank nut withmaybe some internal grooves or scratches to lock the stuff in place. Infact I think I'll try that myself, as I have one of the kits.

Yours,David Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill.

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Re: 618 Belt Tensioner, carriage,cross slide, compound slide questioPosted by: "Dean" deanwx~xxbmi.netDate: Wed Aug 4, 2010 5:53 pm ((PDT))

The halfnut often won't engage if the lathe isn't running and theleadscrew not turning. When the leadscrew isn't turning, sometimes whenyou try to move the halfnut lever, the nuts try to clamp on the top of theleadscrew threads and won't close. That's not a defect.

However, if you engage the halfnut when the lathe is running, and thehalfnut lever goes down into its locked position but the carriage doesn'tmove, or skips in a jerking manner, there is some mechanical problem.Worn halfnuts, or worse, worn leadscrew. I would expect a lathe with thatproblem to show lots of wear in other places, too. It would usually be asign of long and heavy use, and other components would be involved.

Don't worry about the backlash in the cross and compound unless it's a biggob of it. For this lathe, I wouldn't be surprised to find as much as.020" or more in those two screws. It will make no difference to your workas long as you know it's there.

Usually, you will be turning those two dials in one direction only whentaking cuts, and in that case you don't even have to think about backlashat all. It only comes into play when you move a particular slide to acertain position, then back it out and need to return to the same previousposition. In that instance, knowing how much backlash you have is used tore-acquire a previous setting.

We can discuss that more, if you like. Maybe start a new subject for it.

Dean

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Opposing Screw Nuts [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Sun Aug 22, 2010 12:10 pm ((PDT))

New thread so this is in reply to someone:This is not for everyone, but some might try, if you are good atsoldering. 6-18 Atlas (old)

I soldered two used nuts together with modest opposition to form a snugnut assembly with near zero slack.

1. I chucked each nut in a 4-jaw and used the spare screw to see that the nut thread was chucked true to the lathe axis. I used the spare screw pointed at the tailstock center and moved it up/down and side to side to see that they were equal. I had to shim one of the nuts to get that. I faced one end of each nut that were going to mate. On the second nut, I screwed the screw into the one in the chuck and ran the mate up to see that they mated with the flats on the same side. I faced a tick off and repeated so the mated near equal.

2. I turned the round pin off the secondary nut and some off the square top.

3. I oiled the threads and fluxed and tinned the mating faces. I used a handle to hold in a vice and torch to heat evenly until solder melted then used a cotton glove to wipe it to tinned only surface. The handles are #10-24 long screws.

4. With a handle in each nut, I put them on the spare lead screw with that in a vice and ran the nuts together. I heated until the solder melted and adjusted the handles to get a snug fit. I planned that, when it cooled, if it was too tight or too loose; I could reheat and adjust slightly with the handles. I got it right the first time.

5. When cool, I put the combined nut in a cup of ammonia and heated it in a microwave oven till it fizzed. Then removed the nut as the particles of contamination were either on the bottom or floating. Rinsed, dried and oiled.

Of course Murphy's law has one catch, so listen carefully if you do this.

When the nut is on the screw it is fine. When you try to start it in thenut, it goes easy until it hits the second nut and binds. You have to pushall the slack out of the thread so it engages the second nut as thethreads are opposing. Once started it is fine.

In use the primary nut is in the normal position, and the secondary is tothe rear. At first glance you might think solder is not strong enough.But, the forces are always in compression at the joint. When you goforward the forces are on the primary nut and the secondary is free ofthrust. When you go backward, the secondary carries the load, pushingagainst the primary.

Since this nut is double length, it is more important than normal that thescrew be parallel to the ways.

I first saw opposition nuts at Greaves Cincinnati, a company long gone,but in high quality machines; they used this with one secured nut and theother with fine threads on the OD. That one was adjusted to get just theright tension for minimum slack. It could be re-adjusted as needed inthe life of the machine.

chart

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Re: opposing xslide nuts [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:25 pm ((PDT))

Increasing the bearing surface by 2 nuts would double the bearing area,but not the wear. It would also [theoretically, anyway] cut the bearingload or stress in half and thus the wear in terms of wear per cycle ...except someone will point out that in all probability only a few threadssomewhere are taking the load, so maybe as far as wear/cycle goes itdoesn't make any difference. In any event I can't see how it will makeanything any worse; and most likely there would be an actual decrease inthe loading and thus wear/cycle.

The adjusted double-nut concept is most interesting. Thanks.

Late,L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA

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Re: opposing xslide nutsPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Sun Aug 22, 2010 6:37 pm ((PDT))

Re to Garling"Increasing the bearing surface by 2 nuts would double the bearing area"

Actually it is not. One nut carries the load at any time. Thus it reducesthe cycles on each nut.

And in my case, used nuts work better than a new one. And I had 2 usednuts and a spare shaft. Most people would not have that. 40 years ofcollecting for me.

Happy turning.chart

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Re: opposing xslide nutsPosted by: "Chuck Rice" Chuckx~xxWildRice.comDate: Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:42 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 22, 2010, at 8:25 PM, L. Garlinghouse wrote:> The adjusted double-nut concept is most interesting. Thanks.

I do not understand how this is different than the anti-backlash nutsthat are common on many non-ballscrew machine. If I understand correctly(and I may not), my Sherline mill has these on the leadscrews and you canadjust them as tight as you dare. The problem is that as you adjust thetwo opposing nuts closer together, one is pushing the threads onedirection, and the other is pushing on the other side of the thread. Asyou get tighter and tighter, the screw is harder and harder to turn andbecause they are pressing against each other, the pressure causes moreand more wear.

So you trade off accuracy for wear. So when you are doing easy tolerancework, or lots of rapids, you ease off on the backlash nuts. And when youneed high-precision, you tighten them down for the duration of the job.

There are a number of designs on the net. Some like the Sherline are justnut against nut. Others use nuts with springs in a number ofconfigurations. One company that makes these spring-anti-backlash nuts isKirk Motion (no connection to me):

http://www.haydonkerk.com/LinearActuatorProducts/LeadScrewsAndNuts/Nuts/tabid/109/Default.aspx

They also have a pretty good PDF article that explains wear and backlash(from their perspective of course):

http://www.haydonkerk.com/Products/LeadscrewsAndNuts/tabid/68/Default.aspx

The advantage of the spring screws is that they automatically adjustthemselves as they wear. And wear is a fact of life when you keep thebacklash to less than .001 for an often used machine. That is why theleadscrews are normally hardened steel often with wear reducing coatings,

and the nuts are a softer material such as brass or DelrinAF. The cheaper,softer material takes the brunt of the wear. Some people swear by usingthe DelrinAF plastic for nuts because the AF version of Delrin has extraslickness that prevents wear. Others use something called moglice:

http://www.moglice.com/stfscorerepair08.html

which I know less about.Chuck Rice Near Houston, Tx

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Help with disassembling the upper pulley [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "kellyfamily1127" kelfam1x~xxcomcast.netDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:25 pm ((PDT))

I can't seem to figure out how to take the upper pulley apart to clean it.It is one of the last parts that I need to take apart to finishrefurbishment. It is from a 34-36 9" Atlas lathe. Nothing wants to twistor pull off, and it needs to come apart because it is all gummed up.

Here is a picture:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1505854851/pic/1839140149/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

If anyone could tell me how to take it apart I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.Sam

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "James Irwin" jirwin1x~xxaustin.rr.comDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 2:52 pm ((PDT))

The items on each end are grease caps. They unscrew. The shaft has a holedown its axis for grease to flow to the bearing blocks. Pulleys have setscrews. Old stuff like this gets pretty tightly bound up by old driedgrease/dirt cement.

A little heat, solvent and penetrating oils are your friends, tho¹ prettyslow to work. Be patient. They went together, they will come apart! Curbthe urge to take a hammer to any part of this!

Jim I

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.com

Date: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:11 pm ((PDT))

Re to James: Might I add one more. Once in a while you find a double setscrew. Usually a short one right on top of another. Worth a check whenyou remove one to see that the hole is empty. (except for the end nut onthe spindle with the lead pellet)

Happy dis-assemblychart

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "harpanet13" harpanet1x~xxcomcast.netDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:27 pm ((PDT))

I just today took apart the same assembly on my 1934 10" and everythingwas immobile even after removing all set screws. Generous amounts ofWD-40 and gentle working things back and forth got things moving. At eachspot where the setscrews contacted the shaft there was a fairly nasty burrthat I filed off with a fine file as soon as I could reach them. Afterthis it eventually came apart but took a while.

Wayne

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "James Irwin" jirwin1x~xxaustin.rr.comDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 4:50 pm ((PDT))

These burrs from cup point set screws are something we just have to getused to, I¹m afraid. Some I¹ve seen are pretty nasty! And they get madewhile the pulley is in place, so it¹s pretty well captured! Not the bestdesign strategy!

Jim

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:36 pm ((PDT))

Jim: You don't have to get used to set screw burrs. A good machine toolrepairman would only run into this problem one time per machine. Undercutsand flats machined on set screw areas fix that problem permanently. Don'tput it back together until you fix it.

Bill

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Thu Sep 23, 2010 6:36 pm ((PDT))

The designer is supposed to use a reduced diameter, or a flat, at thelocation the set screws hit. Which to use depends on how well the axialand rotational position of the item in question is known.

JT

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "Richard Marchi" rfmarchix~xxaol.comDate: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:34 pm ((PDT))

I agree with Bill; we don't have to "just put up" with set screw burrs.As he says, the first time you find a burr, take a file to the locationand cut a small flat. Another option is to use a nylon tipped set screw,or put a piece of nylon, lead or copper in the set screw hole ahead ofthe set screw, itself. No need to have that problem more than once!

Dick

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "kellyfamily1127" kelfam1x~xxcomcast.netDate: Sat Sep 25, 2010 4:57 pm ((PDT))

Thank you all for the help. I got it disassembled with a lot ofpenetrating oil.

What sort of grease should I use for the ball bearings? The stuff thatwas on there was really thick and only came off after soaking it insoapy water. I have some super lube synthetic grease that is PTFE based.Would that work? Or do I need something different?

Sam

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Re: Help with disassembling the upper pulleyPosted by: "Donald Gideon" dgideonaplx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Sep 25, 2010 6:53 pm ((PDT))

Lots of oil, no grease. That's what the oilers are for.

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Re: Tool for slotted nuts? [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Thu Sep 30, 2010 6:57 am ((PDT))

> What tool do you guys use on those slotted nuts that secure> the two small handles on the carriage?

I cut off a piece of round steel the same OD as the larger nut and longenough to make different drivers on each end. I ground the ends to make ascrewdriver, then ground a slot in the middle to clear the end of thefeed screw.

For the smaller nut I also ground the sides of the screw driver to makeit narrower by the correct amount. In the mid point of the length of thedouble screwdriver, I drilled a cross hole to allow a cross piece forleverage. When grinding the thickness of the blade on each end they shouldproperly fill the slots in the nuts so that they don't wedge out. Theblades should also be hollow ground for the same reason.

You could also modify regular screw drivers in the same way but you doneed two drivers due to the different sizes of nuts. Whatever you do,the tools become dedicated drivers.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Tool for slotted nuts?Posted by: "Rob Chapman" chapman49682x~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Oct 1, 2010 1:38 pm ((PDT))

Snap ring pliers also work, if used judiciously.

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Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36 [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Bill Knight" bill431nitex~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Nov 3, 2010 4:22 pm ((PDT))

I'm a new member that picked up a Craftsman 12 x 36 that's been sittingaround for the better part of the last 25 years. It's in pretty fair shapeas far as wear goes, but it's very dirty and stiff. I'm not going througha complete rebuild at this point, just giving it a good cleaning andchecking it out.

I need some specs for a locking screw. It's the screw under the upperfront of the tailstock that engages with the groove in the tailstock ramand keeps it from spinning as you turn the handle to run the ram out. Ithink it also keeps you from pushing the ram all the way out.

From the Sears Parts List, Tailstock and Bed Section It's no. 49 ondiagram - Screw with nut Part Number: 9-165A ($32.99 is their price).

Mine is stuck, the slot for the screwdriver tip is wallowed out, and thethreads where you lock the nut are kinda messed up as well. After Iremoved the locknut, it will turn about a 1/16 of a turn back and forth,then it gets really tight, so it's not frozen. I'm worried that someone

has cranked really hard on the ram and bent the tip of the screw on thetop side where it protrudes up into the groove. Any ideas? I figure I'llget hold of it wtih my visegrips and try, wiggle it back and forth, slowlyworking it out, but I thought I should ask in case someone knows a trick.

Thanks,Bill

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Nov 3, 2010 7:48 pm ((PDT))

I think you CAN take the ram all the way out. This screw may have beenmade in such a way that it can't be turned when the ram is in. When thescrew threads on the handwheel run out, you will have to pull the ramthe rest of the way out.

Jon

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Bill N" bill431nitex~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Nov 3, 2010 9:36 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Jon. I had initially assumed that the groove in the bottom of theram stopped short of the back end so it wouldn't fall out, but then afterreading your message, I realized if the groove went all the way through,that after unscrewing the handwheel end all the way, I COULD pull the ramout over the screw. Sure enough it worked. Even though the tip of thescrew is ground to have two flat sides, it's still wider than the width ofthe groove, so you can NOT unscrew it until you have taken the ram out.The locknut on the screw is only there to lock it in place so the flatson the screw tip stay aligned with the groove to minimize wear.

Since the top of my screw is messed up, I'll pick up an ordinary one withthe same threads for 10 or 15 cents, spend a few minutes dressing it upwith my file and I'll have SAVED about $32. At this rate I'll have thislathe paying for itself in no time ...... RIGHT?

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Nov 3, 2010 10:26 pm ((PDT))

I'm not sure that Atlas made the part this way, so I'm guessing thatmaybe they went up a thread size after damaging the threads in thecasting, and then flatting the screw was a good idea. $32 for this screw

is pretty outrageous. I'll bet they don't sell a lot of them as almostanybody would just make it themselves.

Jon

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Wed Nov 3, 2010 9:48 pm ((PDT))

Mine is a real long Allen head screw. Seems to work fine (I did not makeit.) I'll probably make it shorter someday as it does look funny and Ibet it will get in the way someday.

As for paying for itself, mine is still costing me ;) Not in parts butin tooling. Seems I always want something to add. After over a year, Idon't have anything on my wish list.

It has been saving me money otherwise as I can make things faster thandriving all around town looking for them or ordering online.

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.netDate: Thu Nov 4, 2010 1:19 am ((PDT))

>I'm not sure that Atlas made the part this way, so I'm guessing that>maybe they went up a thread size after damaging the threads in the

I'll have to check, but my recollection is that my 618 is made this way.It makes sense to me, as it gives a large bearing surface on the ramcompared to a round pin.

Yours,David Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill.

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Thu Nov 4, 2010 5:38 am ((PDT))

> I'll pick up an ordinary one with the same threads for 10 or 15 cents,spend a few minutes dressing it up with my file and I'll have SAVED about$32. At this rate I'll have this lathe paying for itself in no time...... RIGHT? <

You're running the calculation the wrong way -- the way I call it, thecost of the lathe is sunk into the very first project and all subsequentprojects are profit.

I've got a pair of $1000 bolts holding down a toilet, myself.

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Re: Tailstock ram locking screw problem - 101.28940 12 x 36Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Thu Nov 4, 2010 9:25 am ((PDT))

All the ram key screws I have seen have the flats on them. This gives moresurface area for the keyway to ride on and helps to keep it from gettingbuggered up on a heavy drilling job. When the ram gets difficult to movein and out, it is usually because the keyway has been hammered by thescrew and has a ridge built up along its edges.

If you drawfile the top edges of the slot the ram will fit properly againand slide in the bore very nicely. Removing the small amount of metal doesnot change the ram position in the bore as it is a small tangentialsection of a circle. If the ram is tight in the bore, it is hard on thethreads and a PITA to work with :)

Glenn

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Craftsman Atlas cross slide [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "ruff359" ruff359x~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Nov 5, 2010 11:17 pm ((PDT))

Hello. Can anyone tell me how much if any play there should be in thecross slide on my Atlas Craftsman 6" lathe? I can actually move it foreand aft about 1/8 inch. That is perpendicular to the bed. I guess thisisn't good.

Do I need to replace the nut or is there an adjustment to make.

Thanks,Bob

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Re: Craftsman Atlas cross slidePosted by: "jonnycalc" jeldredcx~xxcomcast.netDate: Sat Nov 6, 2010 6:32 am ((PDT))

1/8" does seem like a lot, but 1/16" I think would be pretty typical. Itis just a matter of backlash between the screw thread and the brass nut,and it is "probably" due to an excessively-worn brass nut. I don't havea solution to the backlash effect -- wish I did.

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Re: Craftsman Atlas cross slidePosted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Sat Nov 6, 2010 9:46 am ((PDT))

Bob: Axial play can come from two sources, wear between the feed screw

and nut, and looseness in the thrust bearings. Always best to check thethrust bearings first. Grab the feed crank and try to move it in and out.If there is play there you can probably figure out how to reduce it toa minimum.

Supposing that that doesn't completely solve the problem, you can havewear in the screw, wear in the nut, or more likely, some wear in each.Run the cross slide through its complete range and check the play whenit's close to the front, close to the rear, and a couple of intermediatepositions. There's a fair likelihood you'll have differing amounts of wearat different positions. That's because most of the time you're operatingin a narrow range of diameters during your cutting, therefore more wear inthe screw happens in that range. Even so, if after you've reduced theaxial play in the thrust bearings you still have significant play atthe most forward and most rearward positions of the cross slide, youprobably also have wear in the nut. The degree of play in these mostforward and rearward positions will be a clue as to whether the nut isbecoming critical.

Next, crank the cross slide towards the rear until it stops moving, thenslide it off the carriage. Look at the feed screw to see the variation ofform of the screw threads. If there was more play towards the center oftravel the threads will probably look more pointed in the middle of thescrew, whereas the ends will have a wider flat at the tops of the threads.The difference between these two conditions and the difference in end playbetween these positions is an indicator of how much wear there is in thescrew. While you have the cross slide off you can also visually inspectthe nut to check for the same condition of the threads. When you have madethe appropriate adjustments and inspections, you'll have a better idea ofwhere you stand. If you'd like further help with the assessments, postphotos and tell us what you found during these tests.

You will probably have some wear in the nut, it's being used at allpositions of feed. You will probably have differing degrees of wear in thescrew for the reasons I mentioned earlier. Only you will be able to decidehow much is acceptable to you and how much you're willing to spend oncorrective measures. If you decide you need replacement of any of eitherthe screw or nut or both, it's probable that somebody in the group canrefer you to sources. I don't know off hand but it's likely that Clausingwill have replacements for the nut at a bearable price. The screw may bemore of a problem. Again, after the tests tell us where you stand and postany request for assistance.

Hope this helps.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: Craftsman Atlas Cross SlidePosted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.comDate: Sat Nov 6, 2010 10:17 am ((PDT))

I'll start off by saying that on a well-adjusted 618 there should be noperceptible play in the cross-slide-to-bed. However, when you add "do Ireplace the nut" that makes me think you're talking about play in thecross-slide when the leadscrew is engaged.

There's a fair amount of play in that. You can minimize it to some extentby replacing the nut, replacing the screw, and more inexpensively, bymessing about with the thrust bearing on the leadscrew, at the headstock.But you don't need to. The backlash in a leadscrew is always large, so youplan your work so that you take up the backlash in the cut: you only cuttowards the headstock (or away from it) rather than doing reverses. If youonly cut in one direction, it will be repeatable, so the play doesn'tmatter.

Replace the half-nuts, or the leadscrew, if the carriage is slipping whilethe nuts are engaged. (Take it apart first to make sure they're actuallyworn: cleaning them out with a toothbrush and making sure there isn'tswarf in the closing mechanism will often make them act much better.)I wouldn't advise you to replace stuff for backlash because I think you'llbe disappointed with a bunch of new parts that will still have backlash.

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Re: Craftsman Atlas Cross SlidePosted by: "robeRT SIMONE" ruff359x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Nov 7, 2010 7:34 am ((PST))

Hi John: Thanks for the reply. When I mentioned the cross slide, I wastalking about the part with the dial and crank that feeds in and out tomake a cut, not the carriage which is ok and has no play. The breakdownshows a machined brass or bronze piece or nut that runs on the screw thatI'm thinking may be worn beyond correct use. Maybe I used the wrongterminology.

Bob

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TH-42 restoration [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "db45acp" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Nov 8, 2010 9:20 pm ((PST))

Greetings everyone.I'm about to begin a complete teardown and restoration of a TH42. I havenot seen any posts here that mention how to go about removing the Atlasbadges or namepates on the machine. Specifically the ones on the top andend gear guards.

How can I best remove the rivets without scuffing up the emblems? <snip>Suggestions, please.

Dan

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Re: TH-42 restorationPosted by: "Bill Stietenroth" k5ztyx~xxjuno.comDate: Tue Nov 9, 2010 4:44 am ((PST))

Those little rivets are really drive screws. They are driven into theholes which usually go all the way through the casting. You can use apin punch and drive them out from the back. Save them and use them again.

Bill

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oil cups [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "paul.pross" blackcloud212x~xxmsn.comDate: Tue Dec 7, 2010 9:15 am ((PST))

Has anyone ever heard of or attempted to drill holes in an Atlas carriageand install oil cups to lube the ways?

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Tue Dec 7, 2010 10:26 pm ((PST))

I have done that on a Logan, not on an Atlas.

JT

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue Dec 7, 2010 9:38 am ((PST))

Unless you also scrape or grind oil grooves in the mating surface, asimple hole will not deliver much oil to the ways. Most lathes with anoil distribution system, like my 15" Sheldon, have a series of angledgrooves on the bottom of the carriage to spread the oil widely along thebed-carriage surface.

Jon

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Tue Dec 7, 2010 10:27 pm ((PST))

Actually, it worked VERY well, with only minimal 'spreading grooves".Highly recommended.

JT

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Tue Dec 7, 2010 4:20 pm ((PST))

Yes. However, the cups get in the way, so I would recommend using a flushspring ball gits type oiler with a needle tip on a small squeezeee oilbottle.

lance

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Tue Dec 7, 2010 4:52 pm ((PST))

I prefer the oil wipers that the lathe comes with. No big deal to oilthem.

Scott G. Henionhttp://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: oil cupsPosted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Wed Dec 8, 2010 10:55 am ((PST))

Yes. Just did it in the last 60 or so days. I used my homade gits typeball oilers [info available in the archives].

[NOTE TO FILE: His gits oiler making info can be found here in the file"Projects in Metal" starting Sep 9, 2010.]

I did not put in any oil dispersion grooves. I use a hand held pump typeoiler and after the first squirt I can see oil coming out the edges ofthe carriage. I thought of it, and figured I could go back and do it ifI needed to. After what looked to me like success, I've decided I don'tneed to.

There are some potential minor problems as the surface on top of thecarriage is not flat, so I milled a 1/2" spot face first and then center

drilled before actual drilling. Also, even with the apron removed, youhave to do some careful blocking to get the carriage level before doingthe above. Nothing really picky, but if overlooked, could get bothersome.

Go ahead and do it.

Later,L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA

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Re: Craftsman 101-21400 [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "John Bump" johnbumpx~xxgmail.comDate: Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:48 am ((PST))

> I have a 21400 that is in need of a good cleaning. I am thinking abouttaking it apart and repainting it also. Any suggestion on what to watchout for so I do not mess it up more than what it is now? <

One thing I'll say is if you have one of the machines with Timkinbearings, resist the urge to take apart the headstock just to clean it up.It's tricky and provides a lot of opportunities to injure the spindle andbearings, so if you don't *have* to take it apart, leave it alone. This isfacilitated by getting a Fenner power-twist or similar belt that can betaken apart, threaded around the spindle, and then closed again.

Other than that, everything else is a good candidate for running throughan ultrasonic cleaner, and it's particularly helpful to take apart thehalf-nut assembly in the carriage and clean out all the junk that seemsto accumulate in there, because it'll prevent the half-nuts closing fullyand lead to carriage slipping during thread-cutting.

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Re: Level Lathe [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Tue Dec 21, 2010 6:45 pm ((PST))

On 12/21/2010, Warren D. wrote:> I did check the lathe for level. I only had the torpedo level andfound it was out quite a bit. I looked for a precision level but theystart at $276. Starret has a #98 for $75 but it isn't precision. I doubtthe ways are warped but do need to check it out. Right now I don't knowanyone who has a precision level so I will have to over come this asI don't want to spend $276 for one time use. Probably will get realserious into all of the suggestions after Christmas. Thanks a lot! <

I bought a cheap Chinese 8" aluminum level. One of the bubbles was emptywhen I got it, another a week later.

Did not matter as I never used the bubbles in it. I used another levelto get the lathe near level. The level had a laser pointer. I set it on

the headstock end and pointed it to the far wall of the garage. I markedit on the wall.

Then put the laser level on the tailstock end and tried to position iton the same front/back points. I adjusted my bench until the laser dotwas in the exact same place.

As the dots were within 0.025" and the point was 22 feet away, Iremember calculating that put the bed ends somewhere within 0.0012" ofparallel. Later I redid it so there was no visible difference.

Was the lathe level? No idea and don't care but it is parallel. Made aworld of difference on my test pieces.

What impressed me most was clamping one side down and stick a screwdriverunder the other end so you can find/fit shims; rest your hand on the latheand the dot moved down about 1/2 inch. The bed twists real easily.

I check mine from time to time with the laser level. The dot height on thewall changes with temp but the two ends always shine on the same point.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:00 am ((PST))

Few points on levels. You asked about the quality or usability of yourlevel for lathe leveling. To check the quality of your level you mightcheck this.

The bottom should be ground and be smooth and flat. If not sure, you mightblue it and slide it on a surface plate and look for high spots, or justuse a sharpie and mark it. This is not high tec.

To check the care of manufacture, put it on any surface you can make levelwith a shim or wedge. At room temp the bubble should just barely touch theprimary graduation scribes. Any gap or overlap would require a judgementcall on when it is on target. The scribes should be thin and sharp. Thetemperature is included as the fluid is colored or clear alcohol, same asin a thermometer. It expands faster than glass. Hotter makes the bubblesmaller, but it is not a major move.

Next is sensitivity. This is not quality, but what is required for itsintended use. A carpenter's level is low sensitivity, and a precision

machinist level is high sensitivity. This can be described scientificallyas degrees-minutes-seconds per 2mm of movement, or 0.2mm as they see fit.Since 1 degree is .210" per foot that is not very useful for the user,just the scientist. They may use 1:1,000 but that is not much better.I prefer the smallest move in angle that can be repeatedly detected.Like .001" per foot.

As to what is sensitive and what is not for every day users, we mightconsider some mile markers. My Stanley Handyman 2 foot which is obviouslymade with care as it is milled on all sides and has double bubbles in eachopening: I can resolve 0.015" per foot. Still it is a high sensitiveconstruction level and a carpenter's level would be less but I do not haveone. My Starrett No. 12 protractor on a foot scale can resolve 0.0015.That is the thinnest feeler gauge I have but I have to use a magnifier tosee that as it is quite old and the color behind the glass is gone.(Old is NOT BAD.)

Now for use. Since my 618 is 4" between feet, and .001" is the smallestmove I can shim, then 0.003" per foot is the smallest move I have. So myold protractor head is more than adequate. And yes, you can play gameswithin a tweak using bolt tension, and I did just that. I used the onefoot scale in my protractor head for checking sensitivity, but use onlythe head itself on the lathe ways.

And one sidebar. The usual way to create sensitivity in a vial is theradius of the curve. Small radius is low sensitivity and large is highsensitivity. And someone might note there are low cost pocket levels thatcan be used upside down. They use a vial that is larger in the centerthan the ends.

And as for me, no added cost, just use what I got.

And for use, remove the chuck and tailstock. Check near the head and nearthe tail where the ways are not worn, and maximum resolution. You arecomparing "out of level" to "out of level". So you make the tailstockmatch the head stock end. It is a comparison so level resolution is whatyou need. Magnifying the level helps in doing a comparison.

chart

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NOTE TO FILE: In all my many years of reading in machining books and inspecialty magazines and in various metalworking internet groups, thesubject of leveling a lathe has been covered often with many how-tovariations. But this explanation by chart of what constitutes levelprecision, and practical use, is unique and fascinating. Thank you Sir.

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:34 am ((PST))

Some other points about levels.....

The 98, IIRC, is 0.005" per foot sensitivity. Actually rather sensitive,10x to 30x the sensitivity of a carpenter's level. AND QUITE ADEQUATE FORLATHE LEVELING.

First, a more sensitive level will drive you crazy tryng to get it evenon-scale, let alone leveled. The bubble will spend most of the time off toone end, meaning you don't get a "level" you get a machine that merelytells you "nope, you ain't level yet, you're off to the left (or right)"..... not very useful, since you have no clue if you are "nearly there",or "a mile off".

ON TOP OF THAT......... the SPEC for such levels states that the centerarea must be relieved slightly, meaning that if the level does not set onthe two ends, you have no idea what the level condition is. The reliefarea has no spec on concavity, radius, etc, it is just a "non-contactarea" and irrelevant. If you set the level on that, it will not berepeatable. Naturally, that means that the usual lathe bed must be bridgedby a longer parallel piece in order to use the level.

Some levels may not be made that way, but Starrett are, for instance.Lufkin actually cut away the middle, so that only a pad at each end wasusable.

My policy is to use a 98, get it as level as can be seen on the bubble,which is 2-3 x better than the nominal sensitivity, and then shift to the"two collars" method, where you make an actual cut over a piece of largediameter stock having an enlarged area near the chuck and out at the end.perhaps 8" to a foot long, depending. It is held IN THE CHUCK, NOTAILSTOCK USED.

Take a light cut over both, preferably power fed, measure the enlargedareas. If equal, you are done. If not, adjust a tad and repeat until itcuts right. This is a practical test, and directly tells you is you areat your goal condition, which is "no taper" in the cut.

No need to spend a lot on super-precision levels. If you MUST have one,you can get an import for more in the area of $70 to $100, and many ofthose are pretty darn good.

JT

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Re: Level Lathe

Posted by: "jo barden" jobarden422x~xxmsn.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:48 am ((PST))

Here is how I level my lathe, it is not perfect but it works for me. Ihave a 3" diameter round caravan level that you can get from caravan/camping supplies, the level has concentric circles so you can see if youare a bit out "North/South" or "East/West" I use this level at Headstockend, Middle and Tailstock. If I can get them all the same I am happy, evenbetter if they are all in centre but not often have I had that The levelcosts a couple of pounds but large size is very useful; it is only aplastic thing. Oh, make sure you clean ways and level base at every point;a speck of cast iron dust at one point is not nice, I know!

JonG6UWK

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "oldstudentmsgt" wmrmeyersx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:07 am ((PST))

Warren, this might help: http://www.cdcotools.com/ and search for "level."They have an 8" for $49, and a 12" for $68, both with graduate vials.

I'm not much of a machinist (you'd need a micrometer to measure how goodI am at it) but I've been happy with the few items I've bought from them,and I see them recommended frequently on the various yahoo groups Ifrequent.

Bill in OKC

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:02 am ((PST))

I would bet you could do a good job with single digit $.

http://cgi.ebay.com/STARRETT-NO-4-12-INCH-MACHINIST-COMBINATION-SQUARE-/230565660561?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35aec8c791

I have one but my protractor head is easier to use. Especially comparingone out of level to one out of level in the bed.

chart

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:09 pm ((PST))

Really, you need a sensitive level for this. Even a few thousandths ofan inch error from one end of the bed to the other will cause odd tapersand barrel effects on longer parts.

I was AMAZED at the difference when I finally got a decent precisionlevel. The first one I got was a Soviet-made one that worked out to about.0015" per foot. You definitely could tell if you slipped a hair underone end. It really fixed up some taper problems I was having on the lathe.

Jon

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:32 pm ((PST))

Re to Jon: "Really, you need a sensitive level for this."

My Old Starrett #12 protractor head level will resolve 0.0015" per foot.I used the 12 inch scale on a surface plate and can repeat sensing afeeler gauge of that measure. Of course I use a magnifier and flashlightto do that. I an 71 and my vision is not great. My 6-18 is 4" across thefeet. The smallest shim I have is 0.001 so that is .003 per foot foradjustment. So with the Starrett I can resolve twice what I can shim. Ofcourse I fine tuned a tweek with bolt tension to get the best I can get.

I used the 12" scale only to check resolution. I remove it and use theground surface of the protractor across the ways.

chart

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:14 pm ((PST))

You want to turn a part with no taper.

So, you use a lesser level to get close, and then the two collars methodto get a DIRECT measurement of what you need to know. It works extremelywell, and you can use a level like a 98, which is pretty sensitive(0.005" per foot) but not so sensitive as to be stupidly hard to use inthe real world.

Did I mention that you get a DIRECT measurement of the work taper? No"inferred" measurements.

Nothing wrong with a sensitive level. if you think you will have OTHERuses for it, once you have the lathe level, then it is worth it. Butconsidering the concave bottom spec, and difficulty of use, it may makemore sense to go a different way if lathe leveling is all you need it for.

JT

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.netDate: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:09 pm ((PST))

At 10:23 AM 12/23/2010, Steve wrote:>Nothing against them, but why buy a CDCO level for that price whenyou can get a used Starrett for the same money. <snip> I bought my 12"for $10 and had the vial replaced by Starrett for about $40. <

For what it's worth, Atlas specify that a .003 shim placed under one endof the lathe should move the bubble about 1/8". One presumes they'retalking lengthwise, not crosswise. For a 54" bed that would correspond tohalf a thou in nine inches, or .00067 per foot. That's about ten times assensitive as a Starret 98.

I'm not pushing any particular sensitivity, just quoting what Atlas saysin their leveling instructions -- you can read it yourself.

For what it's worth, back when I had a level similar to the CDCO one, butuglier, I didn't experience any unusual difficulty leveling my 618 withit. Used the one from a combination square to get it in the ball park.

Yours, and Merry Christmas,DavidDavid Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill.

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Re: Level LathePosted by: "keith altavilla" keithaltavillax~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:19 pm ((PST))

Yup, I concur. My 12" starrett I found on ebay for just under $100delivered. There are deals out there if you are not in a hurry and keepan eye on things.

Keith

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Re: Bed Twist #2 [atlas_craftsman] [prior subject was Re: Level Lathe]Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:04 am ((PST))

Two common ways to test for bed twist. One noted by others involves takingsmall turns on a shaft. OK if you only have a mike.

If you have a dial indicator then this is easier.

Checking head taper: from bed twist. Firmly chuck a clean rod in a 3 jawchuck. Be sure the chuck is tight on the spindle. With a 3/4" rod, and adial indicator at center height, in the carriage, I rotate the chuck andread the high and low readings and average. Repeat. I read near the chuck,average, then move the carriage with a piece of paper between theindicator and the shaft to get to the one foot out location. Of course itis obvious the shaft needs to be the same diameter on each location, andclean. In each reading case, I would push and pull gently on the shaft tosee that it springs and is not loose in the bearings or chuck.

Compare the averages at the chuck and one foot out and that tells you thebed twist error in thousands per foot.

I would not want to use smaller than a 3/4" shaft due to indicatordeflection of the shaft.

Of course you can use a shorter shaft distance out if it meets your needs.

Both methods taught in machine shop way back in the '50's. Nothing haschanged in mechanics.

chart

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babbitt bearing adjustment [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Tazwell" tazwellbramlettex~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:48 am ((PST))

My Atlas 10-F has noticeable lateral spindle play, but none in thevertical or longitudinal directions. At the moment I have only theexisting shims (.010 in front and .005 in rear) for the front bearingto play with. Removing the front shim and replacing it with the rear shimeliminates the play, but when I tighten the babbitt bolts the spindlewon't turn.

The manual just says there should be a noticable "drag." Is there arecommended torque setting for the bolts? The manual also says to loosenthe bolts 1/8 to 1/4 turn when turning wood. Is the proper setting justa matter of experience and feel? If not tight, will te bolts loosen, orshould "locktight" be used?

Taz

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Re: babbitt bearing adjustmentPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 1:08 pm ((PST))

Re to Taz: You can make your own shims. I use a feeler gage set and cutthem myself with tin snips. Not for bearing caps as I do not have that.I use them leveling my lathe on the table and also for de-stressing mylathe legs on the floor. Feeler gages are cheap and give a variety ofthicknesses with size marked.

chart

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Re: babbitt bearing adjustmentPosted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:18 pm ((PST))

Unfortunately, lateral play isn't usually corrected by tightening thebearing cap, unless there is also excessive vertical play. Removing shimsmoves the cap down, but doesn't adequately tighten the lateral clearances.

You probably have two or three choices that come to mind. You can pour newbabbitt bearings, or you can replace the headstock with one that has lessplay.

Further musings bring these thoughts: a very clever (desperate?) mechanicmight try upsetting the worn area of the bearing surface to move it closerto the shaft by some clever means. The chances are high that the bearingcap would be broken. In the dark ages of auto repair, worn valve guideswere given limited additional life by forcing a device resembling a threadroller through them, which deformed inward and "raised" the surroundingmetal. A reamer than brought the guide back to the correct size. Thisapproach hardly seems like a good idea for the repair of a precisiontool. If you try something like this, it should be undertaken as a lastresort, only because there is no other solution (which is usually not thecase with babbitt bearings, since they can be melted out, cleaned up andre-poured).

Old time mechanics would sometimes "temporarily" fix an automobile babbittbearing by installing shims behind the bearing, but those were removablebearing inserts, unlike the lathe that has poured-in-place-adhered-to-the-casting babbitt. I think an attempt to move the babbitt in the bearingcap would very likely end in breakage of the bearing cap, and almostcertainly not give you the precision you are trying to achieve.

Rex

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Re: babbitt bearing adjustmentPosted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 4:43 pm ((PST))

cigarette papers are .001 in.....

best wishesdocn8as

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Re: babbitt bearing adjustmentPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:06 pm ((PST))

No, you don't torque these bolts, you set the bearing clearance withshims. But, the real problem (I know, because I had one of these, too)is the babbit is worn egg-shaped. No amount of fiddling with shims willfix the fact that the babbit is no longer a close fit to the spindle.

What happens then is that the oil is pumped out of the bearing by thegaps, and you need to feed a steady stream of oil in or it will run hotand seize.

The easy fix is to get a Timken headstock on eBay, possibly replace theset of bearings (not terribly expensive)and you will be in good shape.

The other way is to repour the babbit. Technically, this is pretty easy.The tricky part is holding the spindle in proper alignment while thebabbit cools. If you only repour the chuck-end bearing, then thetailstock can be set to the right position and a center used to hold thespindle nose. You coat the spindle journal with several layers of waxysoot from a candle as a mold release agent, and then just pour the moltenbabbit in. After it cools, you pry the bearing blocks apart and scrape alittle babbit off the ID, drill the oil hole and make the oil slot on thetop piece.

Jon

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Re: babbitt bearing adjustmentPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:16 pm ((PST))

If the headstock / bearings in question prove to be beyond redemption,another option might be to make your own bearing shells .

The first Atlas lathe I owned (35 years ago) was a 10D that came out of arailway workshop and had been well used. The Babbitt material had beenremoved and shouldered half shells made from phosphor bronze used in theirplace. I don't know whether the assembly had been line bored, either with

or without the shells in place, but I presume the shells had been machinedin one piece and then slit.

There were shims in place to make up the thickness of the slit and toadjust for the 'slight drag' alluded to.

The shoulder on the shells not only located them in the headstock/caps,but offered a convenient thrust bearing surface for the correspondingshoulder on the front of the spindle.

It was surprisingly accurate in terms of alignment and centre height, andwas only replaced some years later when a TV-54 F series with QC presenteditself.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: broken right hand lead screw bearing? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:45 am ((PST))

"kellyfamily1127" <kelfam1x~xxcomcast.net> wrote:> I have an early 9 inch Atlas lathe that I restored over the summer.But, I managed to break the right hand lead screw bearing. Does anyoneknow where I can get a new one for the 5/8 inch lead screw? Ebay isn'tgiving me anything. Thank you for any help. Sam <

Common problem and there is good info on a fix that makes a new bracketwith a bushing and an aluminum rivet to let the bushing break awayinstead of killing gears. Check these links.

The first two are picture examples and the last is a discription.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/556993195/pic/list

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1258822448/pic/list

http://my.att.net/p/s/community.dll?ep=16&groupid=59029&ck=&userid=1&userpw=.&uh=1,0,

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Carriage Shims [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "shuckersfan" shuckersfanx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 9:27 am ((PST))

I just put put my H48 back toegther and there is a lot of up and downplay in the carriage, probably 5 thousandths or so. How much play shouldthere be in the carriage? The jig takes up the play laterally nicely butit still bounces up and down while cutting.

Also, how do you guys cut holes in your shims? I'm butchering mine tryingto get the screw holes in them.

Thanks!

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Re: Carriage ShimsPosted by: "Hal Giles" hal.gilesx~xxshaw.caDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 10:08 am ((PST))

I haven't had to do it, but if I did, I think I'd use a small leatherpunch cutter, hammered through the shim onto something like a steel plate.It would probably mean replacing the punch after a few holes, but theyaren't worth much.

Hal

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Re: Carriage ShimsPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 12:36 pm ((PST))

Re to shucker: I would clamp it between two pieces of flat aluminum stock,and drill it. Flat stock 1/8 or thicker. Then wet sand the hole area ofthe shim on a good flat surface with 400G wet paper to remove any burrs.

To check your carriage, a 0.0015 feeler gage should be tight at both ends,both sides but still go in. In old lathes, you may find the carriage istight in the center, and has too much clearance at the ends, a rockinghorse effect from wear.

I would use a good flat steel backup on 240 grit silicon carbide paper andwet sand the center, but not the ends of the carriage. After all, the endsdo all the work. Remove half thou in the center does no harm and may makeit slide better and more rigid.

chart

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Re: Carriage ShimsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 6:46 pm ((PST))

There are supposed to be gib plates on the bottom of the carriage. Theplies on the stock laminated shims were too coarse for my taste at .004"per ply, so I added some layers of kitchen aluminum foil, at about

.0015" per layer.

Those can be easily cut by laying on scrap wood and piercing with X-actoblades. The shims need to be flat and free of wrinkles to work properly.

When the gib plates on the bottom of the carriage are set right, thecarriage can't move up and down much. You have to allow for any thicknesswear in the ways, so if your bed is worn, there may be a spot where thevertical play is more than at the ends of the bed.

Jon

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punching metals, was Re: Carriage ShimsPosted by: "oldstudentmsgt" wmrmeyersx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 5:34 pm ((PST))

Get a block of lead, or glue up some blocks of endgrain wood (chunks of2x4 will work) a bit larger than your shim stock. Find or make a punchwith a not-quite-flat end, but sharp corners. Lay the shim stock acrossthe block, set the punch where you need it, and give it a heavy whack witha fair-size hammer. Bigger hammers for thicker shims...

If you took a pin punch, and put it up against a grinding wheel at a 5 or10 degree angle from perpendicular to the surface of the wheel, it willwork nicely on soft metals (including mild steel)up to 1/8"). I've done itto make lacing & rivet holes in medieval armor and jewelery. My lead"block" is a bunch of wheel weights melted into an old GI mess kit, andshaken out after it cooled. Been moving that thing around for at least 20years. If I ever get it so full of other metals I can't use it anymore,I'll remelt the lead (in the same mess kit) and skim the "dross" andchads, then let it cool, shake it out, and used it for another fewdecades.

Bill in OKC

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Re: punching metals, was Re: Carriage ShimsPosted by: "Bruce Freeman" freemab222x~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Jan 7, 2011 6:27 pm ((PST))

Bill's method is right-on. I recommend end grain hardwood, though. Oftenyou can grab a piece of stove wood and saw off about 3" to give a piecewith one flat end. The edges of the punch must be sharp, and as Bill says,that's best accomplished by grinding a bit off the face. The whack must befirm -- you'll drive the chad 1/8" or more into the end grain wood. If theshim stock buckles up when you punch it (unlikely), you can jury rig a

device to hold it flat around the outside of the punch -- like a pre-drilled piece of metal, clamped down to the end-grain wood with the shimstock in between. The drilled hole need not be a perfect fit to the punch.

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Bed Wear--How much is TOO much? (grooves in ways) [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "sculpturenmotion" ghtkx~xxbellsouth.netDate: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:05 am ((PST))

I just purchased an Atlas 10F QC54. I am in the process of cleaning andre-painting it. When I first looked at it in a dark corner of a storagebuilding, with years of accumulated oil and dirt, I thought that the wayswere in decent shape. Once I had it back in my workshop and began wipingdown the ways, I realized that they had some significant wear. (I haveposted some pictures.) The wear is in the obvious places--mostly withina foot of the headstock on the outer 3/4" of the way closest to theoperator, and, to a lesser degree, on the inside edges of the ways wherethe tailstock slides. I checked the depth of the wear with a square acrossthe ways and a feeler gauge. The most deeply worn area (about 8" from theheadstock) allowed me to slide a .003" blade under the square.

So I am curious: is that typical wear for a ~60-year-old Atlas lathe? Atwhat point is a lathe not worth restoring? How much wear is TOO much?Of course, I recognize that the answer will be "it depends", but I wouldlike to get an idea of the range of wear that others consider tolerable.My own immediate turning needs involve cuts and threads up to 2" inlength, but not longer, so I think I can get satisfactory results, butI can see that turning a 36" long spindle would be problematic.

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Re: Bed Wear--How much is TOO much? (grooves in ways)Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:37 am ((PST))

Yes, it is quite typical. It may be more accurate to measure the thicknessof the ways with a micrometer at several locations. I had a Sheldom 15"lathe with .013" wear in the front ways, that was too much to be usablewithout repair, which I did. .003" wear is not such a great problem.

You can solve the trig to figure out how much of a barrel effect you'd getwith a shaft of a particular diameter. But, in general, the radius errorwill be less than the dip in the bed. The rear way, usually less worn,acts as a sort of pivot, and the dip in the front way mostly moves thetool up and down, which has limited effect on diameter. The worst case isthe variation in front/back measure across the ways, which are thesurfaces that constrain the in/out movement of the cutter. Any wear in theback way will directly affect the diameter in a 1:1 manner. But, for

general lathe use, your maount of wear shouldn't be a big problem.

Jon

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Re: Bed Wear--How much is TOO much? (grooves in ways)Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Tue Jan 25, 2011 8:48 am ((PST))

> curious: is that typical wear for a ~60-year-old Atlas lathe?

Probably untypical and on the low side.

> At what point is a lathe not worth restoring?

Of course it depends. Really the measure is if you can get satisfactorywork from the lathe "as worn", if so then there isn't too much wear. Ifyou can't get suitable work then by definition there's too much. It's theinbetween cases that case the trouble in definition.

A lathe with fairly equal wear along the bed will still turn parallel. Ifyou have a reasonable length of bedthat turns parallel you can usuallyset up to use it when needed. I had a lathe that would turn pear-shaped.006" out near the headstock so I make of point of getting the workfurther away from the headstock when I needed a precision bore. When thatbecause too much of a PITA I rebuild the lathe (it was not an Atlas, bythe way).

Most of the stuff we do with these Atlas lathes doesn't need tenthsaccuracy, at least not a pre-called tenth (other than the occasionalbearing bore) and for us finishing to a thousandth and fitting with a fileis fine. In that sort of work you can live with some lathe irregularities.

For many the solution is to have more than one lathe with varying qualityof work - one for rough stuff and one for fine work. In your case I'dstart watching eBay for a "new" bed for your lathe and continue workingwith the flaws as it exists. Eventually you'll find one better or closeenough that you can fix it while continuing to use the existing bed.

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Re: Bed Wear--How much is TOO much? (grooves in ways)Posted by: "Mike Nicewonger" twmasterx~xxtwmaster.comDate: Tue Jan 25, 2011 12:23 pm ((PST))

Some reading on worn out lathes...http://www.mermac.com/klunker2.html

Mike N

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Re: Bed Wear--How much is TOO much? (grooves in ways)Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8asDate: Tue Jan 25, 2011 1:37 pm ((PST))

agreed w/ jon ...might add, a traveling steady shud take out most ofmoderate bed wear variations ...just bends the work down as saddle drops

....also width of carriage is a big factor ....my 1895 14 in Reed has

.009 thou wear but w/ 23 inch wide carriage the "near chuck "wear extendsfor almost 2 feet before you back up to near original specs....12in barturns w/in a couple tenths...same circumstances on my 14 in 1917 monarchA., also WIDE DEPTH of beds, circa 14 in, mitigates the drop of thecarriage cause of wear in front minimizing the angle .....feel fortunateto have acquired two INDUSTRIAL lathes of this age w/ 1/2 or better lifeleft ......a 19 th century industrialist was quoted as saying ..i treatmy men like my machines ..when they wear out, i throw them away ...manycompanies today operate the same only before men wear out ..in middle age....bring in a younger man & pay him less...

unfortunately the atlas /crftsmn as well as most modern china 12-14 inlathes have much shorter, narower carriages...& are way under circa2000# as the above lathes are.....

best wishesdocn8as

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Craftsman 101.07301 [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "hyocilver" anthony-danielx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Fri Feb 18, 2011 9:08 am ((PST))

Hello all, my name is Tony. I am new to the group. I was in the market fora small lathe back around 2007. I was looking for something around 10"when I came across the 6" Craftsman in RI.

I bought it and brought it home to CT. I took it apart and cleaned it up.I found that the front bearing had .005" clearance so I had a bronzebushing made up and replaced it. I then used it to make a exhaust adapterfor my motorcycle.

I turned a 4.25" piece of 304 stainless. I must say, that except forhaving to take light cuts, the lathe worked very good. I am now back todoing some repairs on the lathe.

When I bought it I did not notice that the backgear was damaged. Thebackgear, part M6-243A, had three broken teeth. I now want to do somethreading and am going to try and repair the back gear.

I drilled three .070" holes for each missing tooth. I found some aluminumrivets, 1/8" where the shaft size is .078. I trimmed them down some, cutto length and pressed them in the drilled holes. I then filed them to theshape of the gear profile.

I am now going planning to use some JB Weld and completely cover the pinsand fill in the gaps. I will then file them down to look like the gearteeth. I was wondering if anyone had this problem? Do you think this willwork? Appreciate any and all feedback.

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Re: Craftsman 101.07301Posted by: "Uldis Stulpins" u_stulpinsx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:13 pm ((PST))

My initial reaction is that you will devote some time and effort andarrive at nice-looking (static) teeth in the area of the repair, but notever recover the original integrity, toughness and power-transmittingcapability of the missing teeth, and sooner than later, find that you mayhave been better off just getting a good, used replacement.

I say this, having been a Maintenance welder at Wabash Smelting in Indianafor a couple of years, where the "dryers" (the gas fired, rotating tube-shaped ovens within which all of the recycled scrap was burned of anyorganics and dried of moisture), with their annular ring gears of about4-6 (?) feet in diameter constantly loosing teeth, being a major loser inthe "repair" effort. Regardless of what we did, through welding-beadbuild-ups of multiple passes or welding in steel bars and grinding them to"shape", the repaired teeth constantly failed. There was just no way toduplicate the original, homogeneous cast iron gear. We had to keepproduction moving, but it was like "spitting into the wind"...I was wayyounger back then and all of life was an adventure...including doing whatmy supervisor instructed me to, even if we all knew it wouldn't last.

A "small" gear in aluminum or steel, transmitting a horsepower or less,may respond to new, welded up and re-machined teeth, but again, it may beless of a hassle to just get a replacement. There must be plenty around.

Uldis

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Re: Benchtop lathes, now value [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "misterdevan" misterdevanx~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Feb 24, 2011 1:21 pm ((PST))

Hi fellas, I just picked up a QC54 yesterday, serial number 000271. It'sgonna need a bit of reconditioning and a cabinet or stand, but nothingthat I'm not willing to give it. The only hitch with this purchase is thatthe Quick Change gearbox has had both the levers knocked off. All of thegears look good and she spins nice and free, but I feel like those leversare going to be a real pain.

I haven't been able to find a parts explosion for the 10" gearbox in thefiles section. If anybody knows where I can find a part number, or betteryet the levers themselves at a reasonable price, I'd really appreciate theinfo. Thanks a lot and have a great day!

Devan

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Re: Benchtop lathes, now valuePosted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8asDate: Thu Feb 24, 2011 2:55 pm ((PST))

if you have the parts, braze them back .....as strong as cast ironproperly done & more chance of that when brazed than when WELDED. buryin sand, lime or fireplace to cool slowly .....if not fabricate theparts & braze, or make the whole if necessary ....if you don't havemilling /shaping facilities, hacksaws, files, chisels & grinders dowonders ....made a lot of antique gun parts that way 55 yrs ago....plungers may be a pain, & will require a lathe ......when i finally gota drill press, a whole new world opened up ... ...careless moving takesa toll on handles of all sorts......it may be very difficult to to finda gearbox being scrapped ....most wud do near anything to get one workingagain because of ebay values....

best wishesdocn8as

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Re: Benchtop lathes, now valuePosted by: "misterdevan" misterdevanx~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:52 pm ((PST))

Hey Doc: Thanks very much for the repair advice! The levers themselvesare long gone, otherwise I'd already be working on them. It looks likeI'll be doing some fabrication in the near future! 8-)

Thanks again!Devan

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Re: Head stock alinement [atlas_craftsman] [Head stock alignment]Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiers

Date: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:35 pm ((PST))

> I'm running into the same problem. I've leveled the bed (there was atwist) but I'm still turning tapers. There's a great website"GADGETBUILDER.COM" by John Moran. He describes in detail using "Rollie'sDad's Method",(RMD), on how to check alignment. Also, he links you toa PDF file. I haven't tried it yet, I hope to get to it this week. <

The "Rollies Dad's method" AKA "RDM", is an OK, if a bit fiddly andindirect, method to check alignment IF YOU HAVE ALREADY LEVELED THE BED.

Unfortunately for the crowd of rabid proponents of this method, it is NOTa cure-all. In fact, it CANNOT DISTINGUISH between an unlevel bed, and amisaligned headstock (due perhaps to dirt or swarf). This is because itonly uses the lathe as a reference, there is no "independent outsidereference".

RDM can only work if you have removed one variable by leveling. ONLYleveling is immune to disturbance from a misaligned headstock, because ituses an "outside reference".

RDM is essentially equal to the "two collars" test, but the latter has thedistinction of actually using the lathe as a lathe, which may posibly giveit an advantage over RDM. Aside from that, those two are essentiallyequal. And, neither can find a twisted bed unless the headstock isperfect, or a misaligned headstock unless the bed is perfect.

Sorry to burst the pretty bubble (again).

JT

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Re: Head stock alinementPosted by: "mf205i" mf205ix~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Feb 27, 2011 1:35 am ((PST))

No, unless it has become loose, you cannot push the headstock out ofalignment. Lathe alignment is always a compromise. First thing first,does the lathe face flat or slightly concave by no more than a tenth, orso, per inch? If so, leave the headstock alone. Tie down three cornersand make a simple jackscrew mount on the fourth, or get out your shimbox and have at it.

If your lathe does not face flat or slightly concave, hopefully the errorcoincides with the taper, then by all means have a run at the headstockalignment. Then see if you can twist the remaining taper out using theaveraging method-RDM, verified with a final two collars test. I always usefacing accuracy to qualify headstock alignment because bed twist has very

little effect on it.

On a used, inexpensive or worn lathe, being precisely level has little todo with accuracy. Your goal is to strike the best compromise betweenfacing flat and not turning taper, period. The choice is simple, smuglyknowing that your lathe is as level as humanly possible, or making goodparts.

Mike

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Re: Head stock alinementPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Feb 27, 2011 12:26 pm ((PST))

> Unfortunately for the crowd of rabid proponents of this method,> it is NOT a cure-all.

I agree totally, and this is why I never recommend this technique.Assuming the bed is free of warpage and wear, and the only error is atwist imposed on the bed, then it probably works. Assuming there iswear in a particular part of the bed, it can lead you quite astray, andthat is why I don't like the method.

Jon

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Re: 618 Gear head disassembly [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sat Apr 9, 2011 11:42 pm ((PDT))

I am probably in the minority here, but I get the feeling that thestandard belt is "kinder" to old alloy pulleys than the link belt.

Scott has pointed you to the instructions on the Atlas site, but ratherthan banging away at the thing, rather make up a simple puller .

All that is needed is a length of threaded rod to pass through thespindle, some sort of plug and nut on the back end to anchor it (thismust obviously be small enough to pass through the bore of the bearing),a short piece of pipe to fit over the spindle nose, a short piece ofsquare or flat bar with a hole in it for the rod to pass through and fitsacross the end of the pipe, and another nut and spanner and off you go-- comes apart in a jiffy in a very controlled fashion.

Make sure you remove all the burrs on the shaft, as they can make thingsdifficult. Small brass plugs under the set screws can prevent futurescoring.

Parts should be a firm sliding fit, and if not then see what's wrong --adjusting end play is then straight forward.

Regards,

Carvel

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Re: Carriage Gear [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Dallas" n5feex~xxnetzero.netDate: Mon May 2, 2011 6:25 am ((PDT))

"yo.dave" wrote:> I hope I am describing this right. The carriage gear box bushing isreal loose on my lathe. (This is the little gearbox that pulls thecarriage along the rack). Is there any way to take the gears apartand replace the bushing? Thanks David This is an Atlas 618 <

David, I reworked both of my 618 lathes several years ago. Both of mymachines were worn in the place you describe. I repaired mine by gettinga piece of brass tubing sold in many hardware stores manufactured by K&Smetals http://www.ksmetals.com/

They make brass tubing in sizes such that the next smaller size will nestin the larger size and so on. I found the size that would slip over theshaft of the drive gear. I had to slightly enlarge the worn bearingsurface in the casting until I could press the tubing in place. I thentrimmed the tube off to the correct length, drilled an oil hole andre-assembled everything. This makes the brass tube act as a bearing andtake up the wear. It worked very well and took out most of my slop.

Dallas

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Re: Carriage GearPosted by: "Dallas" n5feex~xxnetzero.netDate: Wed May 4, 2011 4:48 am ((PDT))

"yo.dave" wrote:> Thanks for the reply. How do you get the gears apart?

It has been several years, so I am going from memory. As I recall one ofthe gears was made as an intergal part with the shaft. The other endof the shaft had a large square drive milled on it. The second gear hada square hole in the center and pressed onto the shaft.

I don't remember exactly. If you have trouble, I can take one of mineapart and have a look.

Dallas

[later message]I just looked at the drawing, and yes the setup is just as I described it.Gear 51 has shaft made onto it, gear 80 has square drive hole and ispressed onto gear/shaft 51.

In case you do not know there is a yahoo group just for the 18 lathes.They have lots of good information including full manual with exploded

drawings that I just referenced. The group is athttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas618lathe/files/

I just looked at the file named full_manual2.pdf in the files sectionthere.

Now, to remove the gear, I am sure I would have held the assembly some wayand pressed the gear off of the shaft. On assembly, I probably pressed thegear back on and then peened the square mating line with a small punch in4 places to hold it all together if required.

After looking at the drawing, I remember holding item #50 in a 4 jawchuck, dialing in on the worn hole for best fit and boring the casting tofit the new bushing material.

By the way, I did the same bushing install on the carriage hand wheelshaft item #79. I bored out the carriage casting hole and installed asimilar bushing there. Mine were worn there quite a bit too.

The complete gearcase Atlas part number M6-11 was available and shown onthe 2006 parts list for $28.51, so a nickle's worth of tubing and a littlelathe work is not a bad trade off.

Dallas

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worn leadscrew fix [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "indianfourrider" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue May 10, 2011 5:49 pm ((PDT))

I had some trouble cutting 32 tpi in brass on my last carburetor job -the tool would inexplicably, it seemed, jump a thread then booger therest of the piece. If I kept a little pressure on the half-nut lever itwould work OK. I checked the half-nuts and they still looked pretty good;they were replaced about a year and a half ago. I guess I knew theleadscrew was worn but didn't realize how badly until I really looked atit. Seems it had more than enough play to let the tool jump .03125!

(As I read this, it seems plausible that even though the half-nuts "look"good, they've probably worn enough to make for a bad combination with theworn screw. That would explain why I hadn't had any problems right afterinstalling the new half-nuts...)

I've read a number of posts here suggesting turning the leadscrew end-for-end to get less-worn threads nearer the headstock. When I learned I hadanother carb coming in, I decided to see what it would take to do it.

Short answer: a lot more work than I thought! Just swap ends? Not quite...At least not on a late-model 12x36 with QCGB!

I've posted an album "Worn Leadscrew Fix" that shows what was involved -at least the way I did it. Sorry the pictures are in random order - forsome reason either the photo section gnomes or #!x~xx<*%! Vista won't let merearrange them! At least the captions made it...

Bottom line: Happy ending - it worked!

And with what I know now, I'm pretty sure I could make a whole newleadscrew, though it would take forever to cut that keyway! Were I to doit, I think I'd devise a follow rest so I could take more than .015" eachpass... My milling set-up is even less rigid than my lathe! And there areway too many axes to align. And...

I'll be happy to answer any questions.

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Re: worn leadscrew fixPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Wed May 11, 2011 9:25 am ((PDT))

Re to indianI would also check the half nut cam and half nuts where they engagethe cam. I have seen damaged cams and half nut pins where theyengage the cam. Also I have one in my spare box that was mis-formed,not damaged. The pin was at an angle and this messed up the cam. Thusit did not fully close the half nuts but it seemed to work, but littleloose in the lead screw. So I have half of a half nut pair for a spare.

I have been around lathes all my life. Rare to see a lead screw worncompletely out. You would have to wear out a dozen sets of half nutsto wear out a screw, unless you worked over and over in the samesmall length.

Good Luck.chart

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Re: worn leadscrew fixPosted by: "James Walther" indianfourriderx~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed May 11, 2011 7:05 pm ((PDT))

Chart: Good thoughts. I should have mentioned that I checked the cam andthe operation of the half-nuts when I installed the new ones. They clickopen and closed and the wear on the old ones was even. (I keep my threaddial engaged most of the time to help me cleanly engage the half-nuts.)

This lathe spent most of its former life in a generator shop. I bought it

from the guy who bought out the shop when it closed. It came with amultitude of mandrels and fixtures marked for various auto makes andmodels. (Wish I knew what to do with them!) I doubt that the carriagetraveled more than 8" from the chuck. The ways are worn in the same areaand nearly pristine beyond where the tailstock sat. Makes me wonder whythey had a 12x36...

After reading your post I mic'd the leadscrew at the center of the wornarea and at the original tailstock end. The unworn screw was .0005 over.75 and where it was the most worn it was almost .035 under!

When I pulled the carriage for the initial cleaning everything was packedwith copper swarf, and I mean packed! Miter gears, half-nuts, travers gearcase, that black hole in the cross slide -- all caked with copper mud.Almost 3 years after a pretty thorough teardown and cleaning I'm stillfinding little bits of copper...

I turned a 3/8" test shaft for a fan today and noticed something else.Most of the time when turning steel I would have a 'ghost' of theleadscrew on the workpiece after the finish cut. It barely moved the DTIso it was maybe .0001, but I could see it. More noticeable on largerdiameters, but almost always there. Today I got a really nice smoothfinish -- no ghost. I'm eager to try a larger piece and really lookingforward to my carb job. Thanks again for your comment.

Jim aka IndianFourRider

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play in the compound [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Bruce Morton" brucemortonx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Fri May 13, 2011 12:04 pm ((PDT))

I have an atlas 101.07403 lathe...12 inch by 24.

Within the compound there is a long screw that is at a 90 degree angleto the ways...Turn the handle and the compound is pulled along on thatscrew. The screws goes through a bronze nut. I've an unacceptable amountof play in the compound ...Not a lot but still i'd like to try and getrid if it. I've adjusted the gibs.

There is a bronze nut...Part number 10f-19 that i believe is my problem.However the only source i found for the part wants $50 plus shipping andi'm not really even sure this is my problem. Any suggestions as to how ican either get the part cheaper or at least be sure that is my problem.

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "Ben D'Avanza" bendavanzax~xxgmail.comDate: Fri May 13, 2011 12:31 pm ((PDT))

FYI there is a normal amount of backlash in that movement, in case youwere unaware.

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "jo barden" jobarden422x~xxmsn.comDate: Fri May 13, 2011 12:33 pm ((PDT))

Hi. In all honesty even a new one will have some play; on some thebronze nut is split and can be adjusted but old dodge is to never backoff until the job is finished; then no matter how bad the backlash, nodifference will found.

Jon

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "shuckersfan" shuckersfanx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri May 13, 2011 12:41 pm ((PDT))

First thing you need to do is see if the play is in the nut or thecrossfeed screw going through the bushing. Run the compund all the wayout, unscrew the nut from it and then push the compund back in. Thenthread the brass nut back on and see if the play is there or not.

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Fri May 13, 2011 12:58 pm ((PDT))

There are two sources of backlash typically - between the feed screw andthe bronze nut in the top slide/compound, and the feed screw bearingportion in the saddle. Adjust the saddle end for a smooth running fit,and don't worry about the bronze nut as commented before unless it isreally dreadful.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "Bruce Morton" brucemortonx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Fri May 13, 2011 1:08 pm ((PDT))

Carvel..How is the saddle end adjusted? Is that with shims? Is thecompound rocking, or moving back and forth when there's play?

I am turning ferrules for bamboo fly rods. Typically the piece is a tubeabout 2 inches long and the wall thickness is 1/64 inch. Tolerances arequite important, otherwise the male does not slide into the femalebecause if there is a slight taper on the male. Also, when using a cutoffblade i get some chatter that seems to come, at least to some extent,because of movement back and forth in the compound.

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Fri May 13, 2011 1:29 pm ((PDT))

Hi Bruce: There is a fixed collar on the inside, and a jam nut on theoutside, which is locked by the handle. So take the handle off, adjustthe jam nut for smooth but not binding operation, and replace the handle.

Chatter can be for a host of reasons, but I suggest you make sure thecompound is a snug fit when parting off by tightening up the gib screwsa bit, and clamping the saddle.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "Bruce Morton" brucemortonx~xxsbcglobal.netDate: Fri May 13, 2011 1:35 pm ((PDT))

Harry Boyd canerodscomx~xxyahoo.com wrote:> Hi Bruce, Run down here to Louisiana and I'll show you how to take> the backlash out.

Harry...I think i'll just do that. And what the heck i'll bring along mylathe with me so a pro ferrule maker can get me right. I have some play.Not a lot for most other jobs...Doesn't matter on the cap and rings, buti don't want any backlash when i'm trying to turn down a size 9 ferrule.

bruce

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "Harry Boyd" canerodscomx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri May 13, 2011 1:58 pm ((PDT))

Sounds like a plan to me, Bruce! <g> I understand completely about notwanting any play. I've found that when making ferrules it's important tokeep things tight. I usually go over my lathe carefully before making abatch of small ferrules. Collets help immensely in minimizing run out.I'm using ER collets on mine, although I plan to upgrade to 5C soon.

Harry

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sat May 14, 2011 6:05 am ((PDT))

Hi Bruce: All conventional lathes have some backlash - even when new.

If one wants a completely backlash free set up, one would have to look

at a small CNC type machine which has a different arrangement to ourscrew-and-nut combination.

Another option is to explore various techniques e.g. if you have to backout and return to the cut for a following pass, make a note of the dialsetting before you back out, then back it out enough to absorb thebacklash plus some, move wherever you need to, and return to your originalreading point plus the next cut increment you want to take - there arelots of variations on this as you will appreciate - but work around thebacklash rather than with it.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com" anthrhodesx~xxaol.comDate: Sat May 14, 2011 6:40 pm ((PDT))

Bruce: The following is a variation of what somebody has already told you.

The gib adjusts play on the cross slide along the axis of the lathe, notthe direction in which you are presently concerned. Because you wantsmooth action and to be in complete control of the cross slide the gibshould be properly adjusted, especially at the turning radius where you'retrying to do your fine work, but it has almost no effect on the crossfeed position.

There are three things which are the most likely problems in excessivecross feed play. The play in the cross slide motion consists of all ofthese added together, they are cumulative.

The one everybody "knows" is the problem is excess clearance between thethreads of the cross feed screw and the cross feed nut. The excessive playcan be in either component and is usually made up of a bit of wear inboth. To determine how much wear there is in the cross feed screw, drawthe slide back towards yourself as far as it will come, then take one turnof the handle to make certain that you're not butted up against the stop.Using a dial indicator mounted to the lathe bed try to move the slidetowards and away from you and note the amount of motion indicated. Takeseveral turns on the crank and try the same test. Continue doing thisuntil you've driven the slide far enough across the ways so that it won'tmove any more from rotation of the crank. Minimum reading is probablynative clearance between the screw and the nut, anything more than minimumreading will be wear in the screw. Most likely you will find the highestreadings in the area where you do most of your turning. BEFORE YOU DO THISTEST check on the following!

The second thing many people are aware of is excessive play in the thrustbearing of the cross feed screw. Others have told you how to adjust that.

The third thing, which virtually nobody thinks of, is the cross feed nutmounting. See if you can detect any looseness in the attachment of thenut to the slide.

I suggest drive the cross slide off the back of the carriage andimmediately check for lost motion in the nut-slide connection, just soyou don't forget to check it. Probably not a problem but it's easy to doand why take a chance. Then check the thrust bearings for lost motionwhile the screw is free from any interference from the slide. Finally dothe multiple checks for variation in play at different positions of crossfeed. When you've done these tests you'll be in a better position todecide what actions to take.

Not wanting to act like a know-it-all, if anybody has any othersuggestions or thoughts on what I've said, please speak up. This isn'ta matter of ego, it's trying to provide maximum assistance.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "carvel webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Sun May 15, 2011 2:08 am ((PDT))

Very good summary.

Another trick which no-one has mentioned this time around, so I'll repeatit for completeness.

Cut a vertical slot about two thirds of the way along the feed nut, atright angles to, and the depth of, the thread. Drill and tap the top endof the slot to take a small cap screw, so that you can squeeze the twothreaded portions of the nut together, effectively eliminating all playin the nut - feedscrew interface.

However note this won't work if the nut is excessively worn, or thefeedscrew is unevenly worn (it will bind) - so do Anthony's tests first.

Regards,Carvel

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Re: play in the compoundPosted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Sun May 15, 2011 8:30 am ((PDT))

It occurred to me late last night there is one more point which can give

inaccuracy in the radial position of the cutter --- play in the carriage.

My method was to mount the dial indicator on the bed and take measurementsfrom that position. In fact if there is any slack in the carriage gib thatwill also show up as cross feed play. Adjust the gib for minimum play inthe area where you're doing your turning, consistent with smooth motion.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: A banner / bonus day !!! [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sun May 22, 2011 10:33 am ((PDT))

>> After a particularly frustrating go round with a spindle andadapter, I decided to check the alignment again, this time using the6" metal ruler trick. Not only does this work a treat for aligningthe tool bit on center for long work, but it showed me that the tailstock was low and to the right. After shimming, swearing and screwingaround, It was determined that 20 thou lift and 20 thou to the leftmade the ruler dead straight and perpendicular. I used a machined angleblock and magnetic angle finder to double check instead of relying onmy poor eyesight. <<

> Help me out here, what's the 6" metal ruler trick? Just as you did,I used centers to align the head & tail stocks, and got roughly thesame results as you. <

This is what i used:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/center1.jpgBasically a piece turned to a point then the end cut off. Center drillthe rest and inset a spring soldered to the tip.

Took some stock and center drilled. Then mount the above feeler in thetailstock chuck and ran it up to the work. You can feel any offset bysliding a fingernail over where the tip was cut off. You can easily feel0.002" of offset.

I turned the tail chuck several times to account for any runout (wasnear 0.)

I adjusted the tailstock font/back offset. I also found it to be about0.005" low. Some aluminum tape between the tailstock base and body gotit real close.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: A banner / bonus day !!!Posted by: "Paul" kimchex~xxQuixnet.net

Date: Sun May 22, 2011 11:00 am ((PDT))

Don; The six inch metal ruler/scale is placed between the work and yourcutting tip, if the ruler tips to the back the cutting tip is too high,if it tips to the front the tip is too low, straight up and down cuttingtip/edge is centered on the work. To check head/tail alignment it is donebetween centers, horizonal, vertical.

PaulTH 10 X 54

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Re: A banner / bonus day !!!Posted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sun May 22, 2011 2:22 pm ((PDT))

For a picture of what Scott describes,look here. I am making one today.http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/center1.jpg

For aligning centers with the ruler:1- Use two well sharpened dead centers, one in the headstock, one in the tailstock.

2- Get a piece of stiff metal about 1/2-3/4" wide and about 6-8" long ie: the 6" ruler

3. Run the tail up to the head

4. LIGHTLY pinch the steel ruler between the two center tips.

5. If the tips do not align, then the ruler will tilt or twist.

6. Adjust the tailstock set over screws to eliminate twist.

7. Shim the tailstock front and back to eliminate tilt if too low.

8. Check the ruler with a try square or machined angle for true.

That's it.

ps: I use old feeler gauge stock for shim material.

lance

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NEW MEMBER WITH QUESTION [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "planeshavings" planeshavingsx~xxgmail.comDate: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:40 am ((PDT))

Hello, I recently purchased an atlas 618 lathe. Seems to be in very goodcondition, however it is missing the ram lock for the tailstock. Is thisa part which can be made? Im not really sure what one looks like andhave been unable to locate on ebay. <snip>

Many thanksJOHN

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Re: NEW MEMBER WITH QUESTIONPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiersDate: Mon Jun 13, 2011 5:26 am ((PDT))

Dan Buchanan <db45acpx~xxyahoo.com> wrote:>> I'm not sure the angles on the Lock and Sleeve are curved and will>> speculate they are simply flat angles.>> I've never seen a factory new one and all the ones on lathes I have and>> have seen are mostly flat but slightly rounded in parallel to the ram.>> I suspect they are made of Zamac like the gears, and being somewhat>> soft, become formed after repeated tension on the ram as a lock.

"Rexarino" <rexarinox~xxgmail.com>wrote:> The ram lock parts on my tail stock are factory rounded/curved,> no sign of being deformed from tensioning. They are Zamac,> or some alloy of zinc. Rex

"Split cotters" can be made curved OR flat, and both will work if properlymade. That said, "factory curved" may be not the case..... no matter whatit looks like.

For one thing, every such "split cotter" I have seen on Atlas stuff hasbeen a straight angle, sometimes with a curved 'dent". But those havemostly been on drill presses, where the parts are rarely moved, and thereis no regular motion of one part.

For another, it doesn't take much to deform, or wear away, the zamacmaterial. If the split cotter is adjusted "just" loose, it may simply wearaway over time, and end up looking like a factory surface, when the splitcotter is a loose most of the time, and the part it locks is movedregularly, possibly rubbing on it. The tailstock ram is typically moved alot, and the lock is rarely used by many folks.

Atlas might have changed design also.

I ended up getting rid of every zamac split cotter on all my equipment. Inmany cases this required a sledge hammer or heavy jacking bolt to removethe zamac part from the bore in which it was tightly locked by corrosionand swelling.

I replaced them with CRS. It works at least as well, if not better, and itreliably slides when wanted every time. It has been years now, and all

still work fine. (The zamac probably worked OK for a few years too.)

JT

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Re: NEW MEMBER WITH QUESTIONPosted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:28 pm ((PDT))

Dan and John,I'm not certain of the form used by Atlas but the correct form for thiskind of lock, also known as a split cotter, is for the cut-aways to matchthe radius of the piece they are clamping on, in this case the tailstockram. If they are cut as sloping flats they will have a tendency to shiftthe ram away from the lock side; if they are radiused to match the ramthis deflecting force will be reduced. Additionally, greater contact ofthe radiused form will give superior locking ability without having toapply excessive torque on the locking lever.

The preferred method to make the two halves is to turn the blank to thediameter for the hole into which the drop, making the length greater thanrequired. Then slip the blank into the hole in which it will occupy whencompleted and cut the cut-away required material by using a boring bar setat the radius of the ram. This should result in a very good fit. Cut theblank in half leaving a small gap between the ends; this provides the roomfor bringing the two ends together so that they can clamp on the ram. Ifyou feel uncomfortable cutting the curve in the cotters while the blank isin the tailstock, make yourself a jig with a bore representing thetailstock ram and another bore at right angles intersecting the ram holeat the correct offset.

When the two halves of the new cotter have been cut apart you're going tohave to figure out the details of the outer ends of the cotters. Lower endI think has a shape to prevent the square head of the locking bolt fromturning, top end is probably plain for the locking lever to bear against.The other issue is overall length of each end so that the bolt comes outat the correct length in relation to the locking lever.

When cutting the blank in half at the center of the radiused cut make thecut as narrow as you reasonably can. After completion you may find youwant to increase the space between the halves a little but it's easy totake the material away. More difficult to put the material back on.

Hope this helps.Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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QCTP ? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "CHRIS" teeter9786x~xxrogers.comDate: Sun Jun 26, 2011 8:52 pm ((PDT))

I recently acquired a 10F and would like to get myself a QCTP holder.Which ones will go on with the least hassle?

Will I have to mill some clearance on the compound slide or are thereones that will work without doing that? I hate the lantern toolpostalready and have only just started using this machine and am sick ofresetting everything every time and need to switch operations.ARGGGGGHH!

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "peterh5322x~xxrattlebrain.com"Date: Sun Jun 26, 2011 9:23 pm ((PDT))

> Here is my experience -> http://rick.sparber.org/QCTP.pdf

Here is how to machine a "nut" using only the lathe itself ...

If you buy an Aloris QCTP system, they will machine the T-nut for you, toyour machine's specifications. The order sheet has a place for all therelevant measurements.

However ... A functional T-nut may be made on the lathe alone, using onlyturning and facing operations.

But first, you should center drill the T-nut end of the post for support.Now, chuck the post and blank nut in the lathe's 3-jaw, if it has low TIR,or clock it in on the lathe's 4-jaw for zero TIR, and support the T-nutend using a center in the tailstock. Using only turning and facingoperations, turn the nut to fit the compound. The result will be a profilewhich will fit ... almost.

Now, remove the nut and apply layout die and indicate the width of the T.Leave the length of the T full, if you want. Or, shorten it, if you wish,to give you some room to move the QCTP towards either side of thecompound, but no so far that you can get into a cantilevered situation,which is NOT good.

Finally, apply a little Loc-Tite to the threads and mount the QCTP system,leaving the post almost, but not quite tight. Now, tighten the top nut of

the post, which will bring the post straight upwards, and at right-anglesto the compound's surface.

There, in ten minutes work, using only the lathe and a few hand tools, youhave a perfectly functional T-nut.

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Mon Jun 27, 2011 5:47 am ((PDT))

Chris: Without a side view, it is hard to tell how high that bump is abovethe machined top of the compound. But if it is not much, just add a washerbetween the bottom of the QCTP and the top of the compound.

RickRick.Sparber.org

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:01 am ((PDT))

Chris, I think you're saying the part of the compound slide between wherethe tool post mounts and the operating crank is higher than the placewhere the tool post mounts.

Get yourself 1 or 2 fender washers to space the tool post up. If necessarycut a flat across one side of the washers so that they don't run into theraised portion of the compound slide. Later if you want to you canmachine a dedicated spacer to serve the same purpose but this should getyou started.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon Jun 27, 2011 9:08 am ((PDT))

I was afraid of removing any beef from the already wimpy 10" compound,so I made a washer that fits under the toolpost block. You don't have toelevate it much, maybe 1/8". It is also possible to file off a corner ofthe block to achieve the same clearance.

Jon

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "mertnedp" pdentremx~xxforterie.comDate: Mon Jun 27, 2011 2:05 pm ((PDT))

I had the same question, but instead of messing with the top slide byremoving about that 1/8" for about 1/2", I made a new top slide. As myoriginal was cracked and repaired through the t-slot, I felt a new topslide was the better way to go.

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Tue Jun 28, 2011 6:02 am ((PDT))

Some quick comments:I did get a QCTP for my Atlas 10" "F" series TH 42 and it is worth the $$and the effort to get it working, and my experience with CDCO was justfine. BUT . . .

I found that the drilled & tapped [D&T] nut blank was too big and too hardto mill. I ruined both ends of my "good" 1/2" end mill. So make sure yoursis in fact machineable. I also found that there are both metric and SAEthreads on it.

I ended up single pointing a new nut out of mild steel. My thru bolt ismetric [discussed in other posts], and I had some problems doing this.Due to my lack of recent experience that unfortunately I cannot in goodconscience blame on something/someone else.

*** It needs to be emphasized that the thru bolt cannot go beyond thebottom of the T-nut. If it does, there is danger of it becoming a screwjack and providing upwards force on the wimpy flanges and breaking themoff. If done properly, the flanges only see compressive forces from topand bottom and they can handle this just fine. Flush as Steve shows isOK, especially with his 0.010" clearance, but I am a safety net freak andI have a full unused thread at the bottom of the T-nut when my thru boltis tightened down.

On my QCTP there is an 3/8-16tpi D&T hole on one side near the bottom. Iattached a short handle with a knob on this because there was also a 10mmhole on the bottom face in one corner. I used this for a spring loadedball. A 9,5mm ball would have been perfect but I had to make do with a5/16" ball and a sleeve. I found a conical wound spring out of a Deltafaucet would work OK on this part. And then I laid out circular patternof counter sunk holes at the same radius as the low point on the ball onmy spacer plate that I had to use to get the QCTP above the hump. I onlyhad room for 12 holes so I have index points at 30 degrees. I had plannedto get the index points at 15 degrees but there was not enough space for

that. So in theory, if I chose to change the angle of feed of the tool viarotating the QCTP I can repeatedly do that in increments of 30 degrees.

When I get the time I need to make some changes so that the spacer platedoes not move around as much as it does when the the toolpost is rotated.If you don't need repeatablity and indexing holes, then this is of noimportance. When it is clamped, it is clamped.

L8tr,L.H. Garlinghouse Arkansas USA

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "sculpturenmotion" ghtkx~xxbellsouth.netDate: Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:06 am ((PDT))

I purchased the CDCO QCTP and milled a flat on the compound slide of my10F lathe to allow clearance. Here is a picture:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/286911529/pic/1963555322/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

I haven't actually used the lathe yet (I'm still doing some finaltouches), so I can't give an evaluation.

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "Rick" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:20 am ((PDT))

IMHO milling the top of the compound risks lowering the resale value ofthe lathe and is not significantly more solid than placing a spacer underthe QCTP. It also seems from the picture that you cannot freely rotatethe QCTP because not enough metal was milled.

Rickrick.sparber.org

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "sculpturenmotion" ghtkx~xxbellsouth.netDate: Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:43 am ((PDT))

Rick: If/when I sell the lathe, it is hard for me to imagine that someonewill look at the milled flat on the compound and lower their offer. Inany case, I will never get enough money for it to justify the time I haveput into fixing it up! ;)

I had some hesitation about milling the flat, but I felt like that wouldbe the most direct, secure means of attachment for the QCTP. The milledarea extends the original flat by 5/8". It is flush with the original flatand it allows 1/16" clearance when the tool post is rotated 360 degrees.

HM

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:47 am ((PDT))

HM, I'm really not one to talk. I've drilled numerous holes in my lathe...

Rick

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "peterh5322x~xxrattlebrain.com"Date: Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:23 pm ((PDT))

I've had absolutely no problem in acquiring replacement parts ... indeed,including replacement compounds ... for my Logan, and I cannot imagine thesituation being much different for an Atlas.

A shop-modified component, for whatever constructive reason, is perfectlyacceptable to most, EXCEPT, perhaps, for so-called collectors.

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "roberthynden" roberthyndenx~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:37 am ((PDT))

HM, I milled mine off too, I bought it to use, not to collect! Anyone whowants one to use it later will appreciate the fact that it is more stablewith the top milled flat. It also makes changing it out easier and faster.The QCTP is much more solid than the old lantern tool post holder.

Bob

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Re: QCTP ?Posted by: "Richard Marchi" rfmarchix~xxaol.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:21 am ((PDT))

I did the same milling job on my 10F for a CDCO AXA tool post. I didn'tworry about resale value because I own the tool to machine metal with anda properly installed tool post takes priority over appearance. It workswell.

Richard Marchi Washington, DC

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tailstock lock [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 5:20 am ((PDT))

In my latest Home Shop Machinist (July/August 2011) is an article on page38 on a tailstock cam lock for an Atlas lathe. I still have the originallock which contains a captured wrench. It always takes more than one sweepof the wrench to lock the tailstock which can be a PITA. I can see how acam lock would be a nice addition but I can't see buying it over makingone.

One thing I don't understand is why not just go with a coarser thread onthe bolt? It seems to me that it would permit the wrench to lock thetailstock within a single sweep.

RickRick.Sparber.org

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.netDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:43 am ((PDT))

Add a spring to push the shoe out of engagement. Made a huge differenceon my 618.

Yours,DavidDavid Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill.

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 9:52 am ((PDT))

David: Thanks for the wonderful gift! The Spring solved my problem too :-)

While I was in there, I also cleaned all mating surfaces and put down atiny amount of Never-Seez.

Rick

Rick.Sparber.org

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "Ben D'Avanza" bendavanzax~xxgmail.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 6:53 am ((PDT))

Not only does it take a few sweeps, it's also on the backside (and mineis worn, I rethreaded it but the bolt head is a bit damaged as well).The camlock on my friends' clausing comes from behind but it's much easierto operate. I'll need to get this issue.

Ben

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "Richard Schaal" rschaal_95135x~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:43 am ((PDT))

As you go to a coarser and coarser thread, you increase the torquerequired to produce a given amount of tension.

Richard

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 8:53 am ((PDT))

Richard: True enough. But if I also use some Never-Seez on the matingsurfaces, that will cut the force. I have been told it cuts the forceby half. I use Never-Seez on my mill head bolts and it works great.They don't loosen up by themselves yet are easy to tighten and loosen.The bolts also last longer without being chewed up.

Rick

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:22 am ((PDT))

Agree on the spring and cleaning the matching surfaces. Mine separatedwhen the screw losened. Took it apart and found paint between the baseand the tailstock. Had to be "day one" paint as this has never beenre-painted. Cleaned up and about one-eighth turn from tight to freesliding with a spring and clean parts.

chart

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Re: tailstock lockPosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sat Jul 2, 2011 5:47 pm ((PDT))

I posted some pics of my take on the tail stock cam lock.

I used a cam lock from Rockler Wood working store, a bolt with a loosesquare nut to fit the slot in the shoe, a strong spring between twowashers to push the shoe down, pass the bolt thru a loose nut as a spacer,put the washer on, and screw in the bolt.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/964177007/pic/list

Fiddle with the tension until you get it set the way you want.Push lock = lockFlip up and slide.

Works a treat.

lance

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "Dp42212" dp42212x~xxaol.comDate: Thu Jul 7, 2011 8:51 am ((PDT))

Just a thought. Attach a reversible ratcheting box-end wrench to theadjusting nut. You will be able to tighten to your hearts delight and thehandle will swing out of the way afterwards.

I have not done this with the tailstock, but being lazy and cheap I amusing said type wrench (not permanently attached) in lieu of replacingmy broken crossfeed handwheel.

Sears lists one type in their catalog in sets but can be purchasedindividually in the store P/N 0942160 (straight), P/N 0943375 (25degoffset). Also, I've seen this type of wrench in most Auto parts andhardware stores.

Dan

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 5:24 am ((PDT))

Rick and others: Thanx for the comments.

For the record, I did put a spring in before I did anything else and itDID help the situation. I just checked my 1950 parts drawing and there is

no spring shown as part of the tailstock parts. So maybe a spring was partof the parts before 1950 and eliminated thereafter as part of a "costsavings" campaign. [Interestingly enough a hexhead bolt is shown althougha squarehead is specified. The draftsperson may have been thinkingsquarehead but drawing a hexhead out of habit.]

I do think going to a 7/16"-14 tpi bolt is worth the trouble. If one iswilling to drill out the tailstock hole and the the clampbar, then all theturning the bolt between centers can be eliminated. In my mind itcertainly beats making/buying a more complicated solution. I like the ideaof having the potential of turning the lathe back to factory stock, so Itry and do mods that don't radically change what left the factory -- thusthe turning between centers as part of my prototyping.

True having to take an additional bite or two with the wrench is nobiggie, especially as some of us imagine ourselves as "prototypemachinists," not some lowly "lathe operator" trying to "make standard."Still there is a lot to be said for "Continual Improvement" and "Kaizen."

L8tr,L.H. Garlinghouse

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 6:18 am ((PDT))

L.H.G., I'm all for continual improvement and even more for finding manydifferent ways to do the same thing. I tolerated the locking action forabout 20 years but was more motivated by the fun of finding a way to makeit better. "Better", like beauty, is in the eyes of the beholder.

RickRick.Sparber.org

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 4:39 pm ((PDT))

On Jul 5, 2011, at 10:13 PM, Marty wrote:> > The 1/4 x20 bolt has too coarse a pitch and it loosens easily.> > The bolt and nut I use have a NF pitch and clamp more tightly.

Update to update:I took the clamp shoe off, cleaned it, coated it with layout dye and gave

it a quick shot on the disc sander. Hmm, it isn't flat. So I flattened itand it works better.

Also, the shoe slides along the BOTTOM of the ways. My ways had copiouscrap stuck under them. Clean them off, shoe slides better.

Bought a 7/16" x 14 x 3" bolt with nut tonight and will ream the throughhole and shoe slot to fit tomorrow.

Next project:::: How to make the ram lock tighten with less throw and bearharder on the ram. Ideas?

lance

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "Rick Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 5:08 pm ((PDT))

Wheezer: You didn't mention trying the spring with shoulder washers.That sure worked for me.

RickRick.Sparber.org

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 6:44 pm ((PDT))

That's because I've used them for the past several years and considerthem part of the OEM. I learned about them first re wood lathes.

lance

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 5:57 pm ((PDT))

RE: Rick's suggestionSetUp Piece: Imagine that Atlas is still making our lathes and that it isthe early 1970s and the U.S. is going thru the motions of embracingJapanese Quality, Dr. Deming, Quality Circles and Kaizen. Imagine now thatwe are all on a multifunctional Quality Improvement Kaizen Team regardingthe TailStock Clamping issue.

We are now "piggy backing" off of the suggestions already on the table, to

wit: the spring; going to a 7/16"-14 tpi clamp bolt; finding some way tokeep the clamp bar parallel to the tailstock bottom and the ways; andputting inserts into both ends of the spring to keep the springperpendicular to the faces of the clamp bar and the bottom of thetailstock. We are now sort of brainstorming things that might play off ofall of these, or improve them.

As an aside mangement is secretly gritting its teeth although they stillsmile and send us coffee and donuts and "encourgage" us. They are tic'doff that we have already added a part [the spring] to the bill ofmaterial. They aren't too happy about going to a bigger bolt, althoughthere is a slight decrease in casting weight due to a larger slot size andthey are really upset that we are now talking about adding 2 more pieces[the upper and lower spring inserts] to the bill of material.

We are going around the table and it's my turn. I suggest that if thepurpose of the inserts is to keep the bar parallel to the bottom of thetailstock, it needs to have as big a foot print as possible, thus a flangeperhaps 2"diameter at the bottom. Also to keep the spring from cocking ordeforming as it compresses/decompresses, we need to add a containmenttube, just like the German MP38/40 WW II sub-machine gun had on its recoilspring. [Most folks roll their eyes at this point, others swirl theircoffee cups and consider another donut]. Also we need to have the topspring insert to be a sliding fit within this tube and a big flange at thetop. The top insert will have a long diameter that fits in the tube andfunctions as a piston. Even tho the actual stroke in practice will be lessthan 1/8" it should have perhaps a 1/2" possible stroke within the tube.This will allow us to use a shorter spring [which should make management alittle bit happier] and keep the top and bottom flanges parallel to oneanother thus assuring the same for the clamp bar relative to the bottom ofthe tailstock.

We decide that we will collect data and make control charts on the degreesof wrench movement required with nothing, the spring, and so on to providedata that will allow us to make a data based decision. The other keymetric will be the amount of force required to move the tailstock 1/2".All from some yet to be determined initial torque reading off of the holddown nut.

We are very pleased with ourselves and organize a sub-team to create theparts and do the testing.

Shortly after the minutes of our meeting have been written up anddistributed, management decides that this has all gone far enough and the

customer be dammned, we're going to use a 3/8"-16 bolt with no stinkingspring, and from here on out Kaizen teams will only determine whatmanagement says they need to determine. Oh, and no more coffee and donuts,and the teams meet afterhours with no overtime.

But of course, we are each the managers of our own shops, and it might befun to see if adding 4 parts [the spring, the 2 flanged inserts and thetube] gets us something. I'll bet combined with a 7/16"-14 tpi bolt, aperson would only have to touch the wrench and think "clamp" or "unclamp"and the tailstock would pretty much do that on its own.

Quick Note: A good source of short springs for this is from used qualityautomotive oil filters. Take the filter apart and look. If it does nothave a coil spring then you have a cheapo, undisirregardless of the brandand the cost.

Sorry for all of the above, but if I didn't get this out, I would notsleep well thinking about it from about 2:30AM to almost time to get up.Rick's ideas have a way of worming themselves into my psyche andtriggering all sorts of creative juices.

Later [and thanks for your indulgence],L.H. Garlinghouse

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Re: Update on tailstock lockPosted by: "Clem Wixted" cwixtedx~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Jul 8, 2011 6:12 pm ((PDT))

L.H. Sounds like you've been there, done that.

I used to be management and every once in a while the people closest tothe problem came up with the best solutions - even though none of themhad ever been on a design engineering team of an equipment manufacturer.

The people on Apollo 13 were sure glad that "brainstorming teams" atHouston were able to come up with a workable solution. :-)

Clem

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Re: Update on tailstock lock updatePosted by: "wheezer" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sat Jul 9, 2011 9:12 am ((PDT))

I reamed out the bolt hole in the tail stock base and the slot in theclamp shoe so the 7/16" hex bolt could slide through. Really justremoving casting flash, hardly any metal removed. The 7/16 x 14 x 3 hexhead bolt fit perfectly into the recess for the head.

Used a heavier spring over the clamp and all work very nicely. Clamps up

in about 70 degrees of wrench turn. Still have about 70 degrees left totorque it down for heavy work.

BTW, I glued a small super magnet onto the tail stock recess where thewrench lays when not in use. Keeps one end on the bolt and the other endin place for a quick grab. No more wondering where I laid it down.

lance

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Re: Update on tailstock lock updatePosted by: "RG Sparber" rgsparberx~xxaol.comDate: Sat Jul 9, 2011 5:14 pm ((PDT))

Lance: Sounds good. I can't believe I suffered with this lock problem forover 20 years!

Those tiny super magnets (neodymium) are very useful in a shop. I have a2" square that kept falling out of its holder. Stuck one of these magnetsin the bottom using Superglue and now it stays put. Just keep them awayfrom steel swarf. They are very hard to clean up.

Rick

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618 Thread Dial Disengaging [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "hammer44smw" elmarsalisjrx~xxmsn.comDate: Mon Jul 4, 2011 8:35 am ((PDT))

I'm the newbe on the block.... I have an outstanding 618 I purchasedthis spring. I am learning to use it as time permits. This week'schallenge was a short thread section using the gears and thread dial asindicated in the books.

Whenever I engage the half nuts, it appears the tension applied by thehalf nuts is disengaging the thread dial and displacing the screw tothe point the thread dial will not track. When I get to the end of the cutand release the half nuts, the thread dial enters the teeth on the screwand spins while I return the carriage to its starting position....Unfortunately, it never moved from its starting spot, so it is off when Iget it back to 0.

Any ideas? Is this a common problem? How best do I fix it?

ThanksEd

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Re: 618 Thread Dial DisengagingPosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.net

Date: Mon Jul 4, 2011 8:59 am ((PDT))

Suggest you remove the carriage and check the half nuts for a chunk offoreign material embedded.

As I recall there is also a bit of slack in the mounting points ofleadscrew ends and half nuts, so when I reassemble I leave them looseand mutually reconcile them so the leadscrew is level with the carriageand the half nuts engage it sweetly at the ends and don't bow it in themiddle.

Also the threading dial must turn easily. Mine sometimes likes to bind abit and I oil the top and spin it until it's free. Marvel Mystery Oil isuseful. So far I haven't had to press the gear off. The housing may alsobe distorted by the pinching effect of the mounting bolt. When it was madethere was even clearance around the top of the dial, but mine is squeezedso that I had to relieve the ends a little bit to clear the dial. I thinkmy grandfather and father maybe horsed down on the bolt a bit too much. Aside note: on my lathe the banjo clamping screw will bind the leadscrew ifit's tightened too much.

Not related - but you have either a 16- or 32-tooth gear depending on ageof the machine. Mine is the older 16-tooth and the carriage travels oneinch per revolution of the dial. Figure 197 on page 163 of the presentedition (available from Clausing for $25 - highly recommended) of theAtlas Manual of Lathe Operation and Machinists Tables shows the dial witha 32-tooth gear; however their rule on the following page says you canengage the screw in one of eight dial positions which would be correct forthe 16-tooth gear. I used to know all the implications of this but mybrain is going soft....

Yours,David Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill.

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Re: 618 Thread Dial DisengagingPosted by: "Rob Chapman" chapman49682x~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Jul 5, 2011 10:14 am ((PDT))

My thread dial did not turn freely due to what David mentioned:sometime in the past, there was someone who "horsed down on the bolt abit too much" which made the casting oblong.

I remedied it by using a punch to carefully extract the shaft/gear pairfrom the dial indicator (I removed the assembly and held it in a vise).Then, I reamed the oblonged hole with a drill, oiled the shaft andreassembled; it now works fine.

Rob Chapman

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Re: 618 Thread Dial DisengagingPosted by: "hammer44smw" elmarsalisjrx~xxmsn.comDate: Tue Jul 5, 2011 10:18 am ((PDT))

Thanks for the info. I have disasembled the carriage and removed the halfnut assembly. It seems to me there is insufficient adjustment in thehalf nut assembly to remove the offset of the half nuts as they ride intheir tracks in the guide/cam assembly. As the half nut assembly mountsto the carriage, the half nuts ride a full 1/16th high in the guide as aresult of where the cam places the lugs on the half nut. I don't see anyadjustment to remove that displacement. The set screw at the bottomappears to ba a tensioner to hold the lever in the up position and not asignificant method to adjust where the cam itself is riding. This is kindof hard to explain.... If I look at the guide (that holds the half nuts),the top half nut sticks up in the guide 1/16th inch and the bottom halfnut rides up in the guide a similar amount. When you remove the guide fromthe carriage, the two half nuts fit precisely inside the perimeter of theguide when not installed and tightened down. Raising the guide that muchas it is installed on the carriage does not seem possible.

The lead screw will not adjust enough to overcome the cam and half nutdisplacement. Right now I am stumped for a solution..... New half nutswould not sit any differently in the guide I am afraid (although I willorder a set tomorrow). The cam is integral to the handle and carriage andI'm not sure how to go about replacing it or if it even needs to bereplaced.... There isn't that much tolerance in the slots in the cam tocause that level of deflection in the half nuts....

I'm gonna ponded a while longer and then go after it again....

Again, thanks for the help! It got me to take the carriage off the ways,and I have never been brave enough to try that.

Ed Marsalis

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Re: 618 Thread Dial DisengagingPosted by: "David Beierl" dbeierlx~xxattglobal.netDate: Tue Jul 5, 2011 11:00 am ((PDT))

Maybe something is in upside down? The handle is a light press fit on theshaft of the cam IIRC, should be able to drive it through with a drift.

If you're getting new parts, take a look at the nuts on the photo link I

sent - the A-suffix nuts they're presently supplying require an A-suffixguide to go with them.

Let me know if you need me to take my carriage off.

Yours,David Beierl -- Providence RI USAAtlas 618 6"/3" lathe ca. 1941, shiny-new Taig mill

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Carriage feed lever engaging when I don't want it to [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "rickw55" rickw55x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:17 pm ((PDT))

Greetings, I have a 12" Craftsman/Atlas lathe, model 101.28940. It'spretty worn, and has an annoying habit of having the carriage feed engagewhen I don't want it to. For example, if I am parting off something, thevibration will cause the carriage feed to engage, moving the carriagetoward the tailstock and ruining the cut or breaking the tool. So, I endup having one hand on the cross slide handle, one hand on the carriagefeed lever, and one hand on the switch. That makes it very awkward to doany work, to say the least.

Can someone please advise what might be wrong, and how to fix it?

Thanks,Rick

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Re: Carriage feed lever engaging when I don't want it toPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:27 pm ((PDT))

My parts diagram shows a spring and ball on the half nut assembly. Maybeit is missing, stuck or broken.

You could always put a rubber band from the handle to the carriage lock ;)

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathehttp://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: Carriage feed lever engaging when I don't want it toPosted by: "Terry Lund" terry.lundx~xxgmail.comDate: Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:42 pm ((PDT))

On my Craftsman 12" lathe, 101.27440, there is a set screw (plain/straightscrew driver) just above and to the left of the shaft for the carriagefeed handle. Underneath that screw is (should be) a spring and a ball, and

by adjusting the screw you can adjust the amount of tension to hold thehalf nuts open. There is a small indent in the upper half nut whichreceives the ball.

I just happened to have had this whole mechanism apart last weekendinvestigating another issue. I hope this helps.

Terry

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Re: Carriage feed lever engaging when I don't want it toPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:16 pm ((PDT))

There is a detent ball and spring in the apron that is supposed to holdthe cam that engages the half nuts. Either the ball and spring aremissing, the spring has gotten mangled, or the dimple the detent issupposed to bear on in the cam has gotten wallowed out. I think the detentspring is under a setscrew, and if you remove that, the ball and springshould come out easily.

Jon

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Re: Carriage feed lever engaging when I don't want it toPosted by: "rickw55" rickw55x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Jul 31, 2011 8:44 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for all the good information, guys! I'll look for the spring andball when I get a chance to use the lathe again, probably this weekend.If I can't fix it that way, I'll try the rubber band!

Thanks all,Rick W

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Print for Lead Scrrew End bearing mount [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "tinkertoy1941" tinkertoy1941x~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 5:25 am ((PDT))

Has anyone produced a print for the end bearing block that was used asa safety and breaks when things get all jammed up????

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Re: Print for Lead Scrrew End bearing mountPosted by: "Terry Lund" terry.lundx~xxgmail.comDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 5:56 am ((PDT))

A Machinist's Workshop magazine had an article by Stu Booher about how tomake a replacement part that doesn't break when things get all jammed up.

MW Vol 24, No 3 June-July 2011. I happened to buy his 12 x 36" Craftsmanlathe a month or so after that issue came out, which is how I happen toknow the reference.

Regards,Terry

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Re: Print for Lead Scrrew End bearing mountPosted by: "Art Eckstein" art.ecksteinx~xxwirelesshometown.comDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 6:08 am ((PDT))

Here is one I found many years ago and the link is still good!http://bellsouthpwp.net/t/h/thib9564/Atlas_Lathe_Leadscrew_Bearings.htm

Somewhere on my drives I have a print of a fabricated one that uses a"shear" pin that is easily replaceable. Haven't found it in a quicksearch, but will keep looking.

ArtCountry Bubba

As a follow up, I found pictures of the fabricated bng mount in thegroup photo album!http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/556993195/pic/listhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1258822448/pic/list

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Re: Print for Lead Screw End bearing mountPosted by: "tinkertoy1941" tinkertoy1941x~xxyahoo.comDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 2:35 pm ((PDT))

Is there a market for these perishable bearing mounts made from 6061-T6Aluminum at a reasonable price?

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Re: Print for Lead Screw End bearing mountPosted by: "ChrisandJudy" chrisandjudyx~xxcableone.netDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 6:31 pm ((PDT))

In this bearing you put a aluminum rivet in the 1/8" oil hole to hold thebrass insert. In case of a headstock crash as the LS [leadscrew] pushesagainst the brass, the aluminum rivet shears and the brass moves to theright until the LS disengages. I drilled through the rivet to make iteasier to shear and also to allow oil to the brass and LS. It works,don't ask how I know.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1258822448/pic/list

Chris

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Enough to make ya cry. [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Gary" topsaddlex~xxatt.netDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 10:55 am ((PDT))

In doing my hub (Beginner) I somehow managed to strip the gear teeth onthe 9-48b gear in the reverse gearbox. Several fellows said it was fromrunning the feed into the tailstock etc. I didn't think I did that, butI figured I did it somehow.

Anyway, thanks to Steve, I got a new gearbox and got it installed lastweek. Today I discovered why, I was turning a shaft down to 1/2 inch andused the lead screw. For some reason the lead screw in the saddle lockedup and stripped the gears again. Anyone heard of that before or anyidea why?

I haven't taken it apart yet, Im trying to recover my composure.

Gary

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Re: Enough to make ya cry.Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 11:13 am ((PDT))

HI Gary: Did you strip and clean the apron / gears / saddle before youstarted using it ?

The lead screw drives the mitre gear for the cross feed and turns all thetime (keyed to the lead screw), and the saddle for longitudinal feed whenthe half nuts are engaged. Any accumulation of old swarf /grease mightcause havoc if it comes loose and lands up in the teeth, and the apronis not difficult to remove ,

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Enough to make ya cry.Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 2:40 pm ((PDT))

Yup, if the half nuts are badly worn, they can get out of line and bindwhen the keyway in the leadscrew comes around. This may only happenunder load.

Jon

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Re: Enough to make ya cry.

Posted by: "Gary" topsaddlex~xxatt.netDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 9:24 pm ((PDT))

No, I didn't take it apart, I oiled it good and everything seemed tomove smoothly (of coarse no load). I will take it apart tomorrow andsee what's going on. Not sure how to tell if the half nut is very worn.

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Re: Enough to make ya cry.Posted by: "Carvel Webb" carvelwx~xxabsamail.co.zaDate: Wed Nov 2, 2011 9:52 pm ((PDT))

Hi Gary: The threads on the half nuts should look like the thread on thelead screw and should still have at least 75% engagement if you offer upthe two to each other while it's apart .

The problem can also occur if the valleys of the threads on the half nutare gummed up with old swarf -- so can often do with a good clean.

Good luck,Carvel

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Felt Material [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jsegal42" jasegalx~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sat Nov 5, 2011 6:37 am ((PDT))

As I (slowly) clean up and fix the various big and little things wrongwith my lathe (12" 101.07403), I noticed that the oil felts are downrightfilthy. In the interests of continued bearing health, I'd like to replacethem. Since the way wiper felts are a rounded 'L' shap with a punchedhole, I'll probably just buy them from Validus Group on eBay. The feltunder the four oil caps, however, is round. Since I now have a lathe,it's a simple matter to make a punch the right size.

What do you guys use for felt? There seem to be a bunch of differentmaterials and weights. I assume Atlas chose a specific combination toachieve the proper oil supply to the bearings and I'd like to at leastget close.

Also, where have you found it at retail (I'm in the Texas Panhandle)?

Thanks,Jack

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Re: Felt MaterialPosted by: "William Abernathy" williamx~xxinch.comDate: Sat Nov 5, 2011 8:14 am ((PDT))

I've seem old machinery in otherwise fine shape with boot laces stuck in

the oil cups. If you want proper felt though, you can buy it by the sheetfrom McMaster-Carr.

William Abernathy Berkeley, CAhttp://yourwritereditor.com

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Re: Felt MaterialPosted by: "jsegal42" jasegalx~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sat Nov 5, 2011 8:59 am ((PDT))

Thank you for the quick response. I could use boot laces, but I'd ratherduplicate what Atlas originally supplied; it's not that expensive.

I saw the felt in the McMaster-Carr catalog, but can't decide among the10 different kinds they carry. Does anyone know what material (wool?) andwhat weight (course? soft?) is correct for this application?

Thanks,Jack

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Re: Felt MaterialPosted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Nov 5, 2011 9:06 am ((PDT))

Jack: If there is an arts & crafts store near you like Michaels or AnnasLinens, they have a selection of good felt that you can use. I havepurchased a sheet for the same purpose and used it in the headstockoilers and the grease cups on my lathe.

I cut out and stack 3 discs for the cups and 5 or 6 for the oilers & itworks great' Cost $1.00 vs $10+ for a sheet from McMaster.

But if you must, the F5 Soft White is what you're looking for.

Dan

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Re: Felt MaterialPosted by: "jsegal42" jasegalx~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sat Nov 5, 2011 11:00 am ((PDT))

Dan:Thanks, that's the information I'm looking for. We have Michael's here.

Jack

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Re: Felt MaterialPosted by: "Rexarino" rexarinox~xxgmail.com

Date: Sat Nov 5, 2011 5:45 pm ((PDT))

I suggest you call Clausing (number in Links subheading on this grouppage) and order both the rubber and the felt way wipers. They're cheap,the gals on the phone know more about your lathe than you do, and theservice is excellent!

No affiliation

Rex

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Re: Bushing a Babbitt Headstock [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Dec 4, 2011 9:25 pm ((PST))

falcon52x~xxverizon.net wrote:> Has anyone had any luck boring out one of the Babbitt bearings ona Atlas 10F and putting a Oilite or Sintered bronze bushing on thespindle shaft.. So putting the caps on provides a light clamping force..It Would be nice to save it being the do provide for a smoother turningfinish... <

The problem is not repairing the bearing by either repouring the babbitor replacing with a bearing insert. The real problem is getting thespindle back in alignment after this job. The simplest way to do it isto create some spacers, clamps or fixtures that hold the spindle in properalignment while the babbit metal is repoured.

> Being I have 2 headstocks for my 10F I might be able to bore one withthe other, Taking real light cuts and pushing it down a well greased bedwith the centerstock, Just have to find a way to secure it to the bed andstill allow it to slide, maybe drill the back end so I can put a T-Barthrough the bed on each end of the Babbitt headstock.. Only the rearbearing is bad, The chuck end Babbitt is still in good shape.. <

Ah! What you do is remount the headstock to be repaired in the middle ofthe bed.Mount another headstock in the usual place.Hold the back of the center spindle with a center in the left headstock.Hold the front of the center spindle with a center in the tailstock.Now, the spindle is properly aligned with the bed, and the babbit bearingscan be repoured. I won't go into the details here, but you coat thespindle with candle soot or acetylene soot, put some spacers, maybe 0.016"under the bearing caps and fabricate dams to keep the babbit from spillingcompletely out, and then pour melted babbit in. The soot prevents thebabbit from soldering itself to the spindle.

You can then tweak final alignment by scraping the babbit down a little.You can also cut oil grooves into the babbit, and re-drill the oil hole.

Much more info on re-babbiting can be found on the net.

> Question: anyone have any idea how thick the Babbitt is, Would therebe enough material there to get a bushing in there without cutting intothe cast iron.. Most bushings in that size are .125 wall but I may beable to find a .0625 wall... <

There are huge bronze (I think) inserts that carry the babbit. They arefairly easy to remove from the headstock when the caps are off. Theoriginal babbit was thin, but you could bore these out to fit bearingliners of your choice.

Jon

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NOTE TO FILE:

[How to make a machine gib from scratch with hand tools.]

On December 10, 2011 a message appeared in the group atlas_craftsmandescribing a practical method of making a gib from scratch. The methodcould be adapted for making a gib suitable for other machinery brands andtypes, so it was placed in the file here called "Rebuilding Machinery".A good lesson in the value of hand filing skills.

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Another Modification. [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jim B." btdtrfx~xxverizon.netDate: Fri Dec 16, 2011 11:37 am ((PST))

You guys are probably getting tired of me.This is the last one for a while; I need to get back to the MG.

When my friend dropped off the top slide he also included the cross slidenut. He made some comment about the attaching screw but I did not pick upon it.

I think the comment was that he did not have one. I was cleaning up thenut and I found the attaching hole jammed with dirt and swarf. No screwcould ever have gone in. I cleaned it up and found the upper part of thethreads was stripped. I could see that the threads could be extended soI used a bottoming tap (Read broken tap ground flat) to extend them about3/16 additional. I could not find a round head 1/4-20 screw in my junk boxso I used a hex head. (Grade 5) I thinned the hex down a bit and cut thebolt to an overall length of 5/8".

Then I got to thinking. On a lot of South Bend lathes the screw that holdsthe nut, as well as the nut) is drilled through and this becomes an oiling

point. There is usually a grub screw to plug the hole so swarf and dirt donot build up. I feel this is the best place to put oil. It take time foroil to work its way down the cross feed screw. I decided to make thismodification.

I drilled through the 1/4-20 with a 1/8" drill and then threaded about7/16" from the top 8-32. I also drilled a 1/8" hole through the nut inthe attaching screw hole. Now, remove the grub screw, add a few dropsof oil in the hole and I know it's where it belongs.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f334/eeengineer1/Nut-Modification.jpg

You can see the finished topslide, with its new QCTP, casting andpaint job along with the modified screw, grub screw and cross slide nutin the picture.

Picking up on another thread, that's late South Bend grey, I have a gallonof it. Every thing gets painted grey here, unless it black or my MG.

Jim B.Ownerhttp://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendheavy10/http://finance.groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendheavy10files/co-owner.NJ_LoganLatheOwnersx~xxyahoogroups.commoderatorhttp://groups.yahoo.com/group/southbendlathe/Projects_For_Home_Shop_Metal_Fabricators

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Re: Another Modification.Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Sat Dec 17, 2011 8:36 am ((PST))

Last time I had mine apart I cut a slot from the top of the nut downabout halfway through the threads and installed a capscrew to pull theslot together. Makes for almost zero backlash and is now adjustable.

I love the oil hole idea and I think it is going to happen soon too :)

Glenn

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Compound nut mod [was Re: Another Modification.] Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.net sleykin Date: Sun Dec 18, 2011 10:02 am ((PST))

> How bout a pic of that mod? Sounds like a great easy mod..

Here ya go.http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/89048877/pic/1496214596/view

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Re: 10" Atlas Slips Out of Back Gear [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.com Date: Sat Dec 24, 2011 12:26 pm ((PST))

Fred1900 wrote:> When I run the lathe in the back gear setting, the lever slowlyrotates to disengage the lathe from the back gear setting.Any suggestions on how to fix this? <

A common problem. In fact, the 12" Craftsman has a linkage and knob onthe front with a lock to prevent it. But, the older machines had wavewashers to hold the eccentric a little tighter, and also had shims underthe brackets that held the central shaft to set gear lash. I found thatthe proper shimming of these brackets solves the problem. You may haveto add shims as the gears wear.

The way the eccentric works, the torque load on the back gears shouldhelp to keep the eccentric tight when engaged, but vibration can makeit slowly work back against the rotation.

Jon

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Re: 10" Atlas Slips Out of Back GearPosted by: "ChrisandJudy" chrisandjudyx~xxcableone.netDate: Sat Dec 24, 2011 3:44 pm ((PST))

Fred,My 101.7380 12x36 did the same thing. I discovered the oil screw hole forthe back gear shaft. My back gears had not been used in a long long timeand the gears were sticking to the shaft they run on. I put some Marvelmystery oil in the hole and turned it by hand to get it loosened up. Thenspindle oil and it has been fine ever since.

Chris in WA

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Re: 10" Atlas Slips Out of Back GearPosted by: "n2irz" baysale976x~xxoptimum.netDate: Sun Dec 25, 2011 9:01 am ((PST))

I have had the same issue while taking heavy cuts. It can be caused bybinding in the spindle as well. Be sure the pully-gears running on thespindle are well-oiled - there's a setscrew for that. I hesitate tosuggest disassembling all that for a cleaning, since that's a big job.

You can use a rubber band to positively hold the back gear lever intoposition, while still allowing it to pop out for severe overload. Ifyou think just a little more friction in the lever action might help,a few wraps of cotton twine around the shaft, between the lever andthe casting, can add some. Not exactly 'by the book' but I've had it

work for me.

BEST QUOTE THIS WEEK:(Posted by: "James Rice" )It's not the tool that makes precision parts, it's the tool user.

I can turn to better that 0.001, any time, using my worn and ancientH42 10F - but not in the same time I can on a modern professional lathe.It takes time, care and attention to detail to make an old machine turnout precision work; that's also true of a new machine though.<snip>

Don

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Re: 10" Atlas Slips Out of Back GearPosted by: "Fred1900" fred1900x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Dec 25, 2011 11:16 am ((PST))

Thanks for the good suggestions about slipping out of gear. I cleanedwhat was easy to clean and popped out the oil hole screw and oiled theinside of the shaft. In addition, I loosened the ring collars on eitherside of the gears and used a screwdriver as a lever to force the collarstighter against the spring washers which increased the friction and helpsretain the shaft in position. If it wasn't for the suggestions aboutoiling and the spring washers, I probably would have not fixed thisproblem.

Fred1900

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide. [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jerryhfreeman" jerryx~xxtcenet.netDate: Sat Dec 31, 2011 4:38 pm ((PST))

Scott Henion wrote:> Received the silicon-bronze washers today (3/8" ID 1"OD about .062> thick.)> I first installed one in the cross feed between the dial and the> bearing. It does seem smoother. Then shortened the hub* by 3/32" and> installed one between the gear and the hub.> * removed hub and took out screw/dial/handle. Mounted hub lightly in> 3-jaw chuck. Brought up tailstock with dead center for support and> tightened up. Then with 3/32 parting tool took off a blade width.> There is a noticeable difference and getting better as the surfaces> break in. Now can spin the feed by the handle rather than always by> push-pull on both ends (Gibbs are a bit tight as the milling attachment> seems to require.)

I found 3/8" ID X 3/4" OD X .063" thick bronze thrust bearing washers atthe local Sears Hardware for $1.63 each. Around $7.00 for four of them.They turned out to be a perfect size for this project.

I made the appropriate modifications to install a pair on the cross slideand a pair on the compound rest. The effect is impressive. With the gibscrews left at the previous adjustments, after installing the bearingwashers, the crank action was so effortless, it was hard to sense wherethe backlash starts and ends. I tightened all the gib screws enough tocreate a little resistance in the action and recover the feel of thecranks. This made the entire carriage assembly much more rigid, but stillquite comfortable to work. Backlash on both cranks is about .007"(Welcome to Japan, Mr. Bond).

I did a small project and was astounded at how much better work the latheis producing. Significantly smoother, cleaner, and more precise results,very nice looking surfaces, and the lathe is much more solid to operate.It goes through deeper cuts with greatly enhanced stability, reducedtendency to chatter.

I had expected this modification to make the machine more comfortable touse, but it hadn't occurred to me how much difference it could make inthe quality of work it produces.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "Jerry Hupp" jerry_huppx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:00 pm ((PST))

Very intresting on the results. Could you post the modifications neededon the compound slide? Thanks.

Jerry H.

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "jerryx~xxtcenet.net" jerryhfreemanDate: Sat Dec 31, 2011 5:23 pm ((PST))

Certainly. I used a 3/4" end mill on my bench top mill/drill machine,but with some improvisation, you should be able to accomplish the sameresults on the lathe. You might have to fabricate temporary parts sosubstitute for the compound rest dial and indicator plate/hub (the partwith the mark that lines up with the numbers on the dial) so you can usethe lathe while they're removed, and you'll have to figure out how tohold the indicator plate/hub in the lathe to work on it.

I had to slightly reduce the outside diameter of the bearing washers, asthey were slightly over 3/4" and wouldn't have fit into the recess made bythe 3/4" end mill. I accomplished that by fixing them between two nuts ona 3/8" bolt, spinning them on the lathe and taking a little off with a

file.

With the 3.4" end mill, I created a .063" deep by 3/4" diameter cavity inthe back of the Zamak indicator plate/hub that screws on the front of thecompound slide. That left the surface of the bearing washer exactly flushwith the back of the part so it would mount tight against the slide andexactly capture the bearing washer.

I made a similar, but shallower, .050" deep X 3/4" diameter cavity in theback of the graduated dial so it would also capture a bearing washer. Withthe dial, however, I wanted the washer to hold it slightly away from thefront of the part it bears against so the bearing would take all thecontact and leave the dial free of contact. The ~.013" gap between thedial and the face of the indicator plate looks very appropriate,especially since the cross slide dial is mounted with exactly the sameclearance.

After oiling, it only took a few minutes working the mechanisms beforethey began functioning much more freely.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sat Dec 31, 2011 8:59 pm ((PST))

On 12/31/2011 7:38 PM, jerryhfreeman wrote:> I had expected this modification to make the machine more comfortable> to use, but it hadn't occurred to me how much difference it could make> in the quality of work it produces.

Same here. Now, getting rid of the 0.020" play in the feed nut helped ;)After the feed nut change, cuts were smoother.

After the bronze bearings were added It is easier to turn. The otherthing I noticed that when i run a cut up against a shoulder where itwould take a large cut to move more (0.060 or more,) it no longersquealed and chattered. Same for plunging a cutter deep.

Allowing the feed screw to be tighter probably helped. Before it had alot of drag and the front of the hub and back of the dial were scored.

Part may be, before I kept the gibbs to where the handle was comfortableto turn. Probably now they are a bit tighter.

I can't wait to try the milling attachment.

Next will probably be the carriage. It gets real tight near theheadstock and on the tail end. I got the feeling it was not just wear

as it felt like it was stuck in tar and as move it a few times it getsbetter. I cleaned the bottom of the ways close to the headstock and itmoves easier.

I may make some for of scraper to clean the bottom and maybe even anywear. Kinda like a block plane but uses the top for a reference.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "tj" 999alfredx~xxcomcast.netDate: Sun Jan 1, 2012 9:38 am ((PST))

Could you post the Sear's part number? Plus, was this for 6" or 12".

tj

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "jerryhfreeman" jerryx~xxtcenet.netDate: Sun Jan 1, 2012 11:50 am ((PST))

The bearing washers were found in the generic fasteners section, same asyou might find in any hardware store. Usually there are selections ofbushings, etc. along with the nuts and bolts. It wasn't a Sears part thatmight have a part number. I also tried my local True Value hardware, butthey didn't have as extensive a selection.

It's a ten inch lathe.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "jerryhfreeman" jerryx~xxtcenet.netDate: Sun Jan 1, 2012 6:31 pm ((PST))

For the record ...I did a test using a discarded piece of 9/16 drill rod I had drilled someholes in. I tried taking a pass removing .050" (depth of cut, diameterremoved was .100"). It went effortlessly, even through an interrupted cutacross one of the drilled holes. I cranked it down to .060" for the nextpass and it was just as effortless. Bright blue string of cut metal comingoff the tool, lovely to see. I let it go for just a second into where the

previous pass had stopped. That would be cutting .110 deep. It seemed liketoo much for it to take, but it didn't stop the lathe, and the setupseemed very stable even under that much force.

It looks like I'll be taking .050" cuts routinely from now on.

As far as I'm concerned, this modification is nothing short ofrevolutionary. It's a brand new lathe.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sun Jan 1, 2012 7:12 pm ((PST))

On 1/1/2012, steven r jones wrote:> Jerry, Would you be willing to take some pictures of your modification> and upload?> Your description seems adequate and simple, but I am not a experienced> machinist so I have a hard time picturing ALL that you did and to what.

His mod is similar to mine although he hid the smaller washer behind thedial. I have a page on my site on the mod:

http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/crossmod.shtml

Has the steps necessary. The compound should be similar.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "jerryhfreeman" jerryx~xxtcenet.netDate: Sun Jan 1, 2012 8:13 pm ((PST))

Scott, your version will be easier to do since it doesn't require creatingthe cavity on the back of the dial for the washer to fit, and it willproduce exactly the same result.

Your instructions say, "You might need to take off another .062". I hadenough threads I didn't have to." In my version of the mod, the .050"cavity in the back of the dial serves the same function as removing thesecond .062" in your version.

That is all directly applicable to the cross slide modification; however,there's still the matter of how to accommodate the washers in the compound

slide modification. All the same parts are there, but the geometry is abit different from the cross slide. Somewhere, enough metal needs to beremoved to allow for the addition of two washers.

The part on the compound slide that corresponds to the hub on the crossslide is a flat, chromed Zamack plate, about 1/4" thick, attached to thefront of the compound by two round head screws.

I would be inclined to mount that hub plate, backside facing thetailstock, on something that can be chucked onto the spindle, and thencut the cavity for the washer on the lathe. This is the equivalentmodification to cutting .062" off the inboard end of the cross slide hub.For that position on the compound slide, a 3/4" diameter washer may workbetter than a 1" diameter washer. If so, it's easy enough to mount awasher between nuts on a bolt, chuck it in the lathe and take off some.

The two holes should make it easy enough to mount. I would just drill acouple of holes in a bit of aluminum and use self tapping sheet metalscrews to mount the part. The Zamack machines very easily and gives anice finish. With that part off, the compound slide could be secured bytightening the gib screws. Then you could cut out the cavity from thecenter towards the circumference similarly to how you would face offa piece.

It might be possible to take the thickness of one washer off the frontof the dial where the nut bears against it. That would be a logical wayto accommodate a 1" diameter washer. Or you could do it the way I didwith a 3/4" washer and fit it into the back of the dial.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Mon Jan 2, 2012 9:40 pm ((PST))

I liked the "hidden" washer behind the dial in Jerry's version. Thegap moves the dial marks a bit away from the mark on the hub. Thismakes it less clear on getting them lined up.

So, I removed the dial, made a smaller washer and made a recess in theback of the dial. I have updated the instructions here:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman-12x36/crossmod.shtml

Everything was done on the lathe. It includes a description of an arborI made to turn the washer smaller.

Oh, and it keeps getting smoother ;)

I rarely use the compound, but if I modify that, I'll write it up withcomplete pictures.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:

http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "Steve Haskell" stevesbunkbedsx~xxaol.comDate: Wed Jan 4, 2012 8:32 pm ((PST))

Tonight I made the modification that Scott Henion describes on hiswebsite, except I used .010" brass shim stock to make the two washers.The cross slide moves like a "dream" now. Well worth the effort.

To make the washers, I cut two 1" square pieces of .010" brass shimstock. Then layed them back to back between two pieces of steel, clampedthe steel together, put in my milling vise and drilled 27/64" hole thruthe approx center of the square shims. Disassembled the clamping jig.Then I clipped the corners of the shims to form a rough octagon shape.Then mounted a piece of 3/8-16 all thread in lathe chuck, center drilledthe end, then sandwiched the two brass washers between two 1" diameterplain washers with hex nuts and with a live center in end of theall-thread shaft, I turned the OD down to .835". Disassembled the jig,de-burred the brass washers and reassembled the lathe cross feed screwassembly. Real smooth cross slide operation now.

Steve Haskell

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "jerryhfreeman" jerryx~xxtcenet.netDate: Thu Jan 5, 2012 5:06 am ((PST))

Hi, Steve.This is brilliant. It eliminates all the modifications to the lathe partsbecause your shim stock doesn't take any significant thickness.Well done.

Best wishes,Jerry

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.Posted by: "James Irwin" jirwin1x~xxaustin.rr.comDate: Thu Jan 5, 2012 9:33 am ((PST))

Hey guys ... This is not a highly loaded thrust washer we¹re talking abouthere. Use thin HDPE, Teflon or other self-lubricating plastic film/sheet!

Jim

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Re: New cross nut and clean up slide.

Posted by: "Glenn N" sleykinx~xxcharter.netDate: Thu Jan 5, 2012 10:25 am ((PST))

Great idea. I have Teflon tape I use for woodworking tools to make themslide better. Original purpose was high voltage insulation but ... Idon't do that anymore LOL.

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NOTE TO FILE: Help from Clausing.

January 2012. Technical advice about Atlas (or Atlas-made Craftsman)machine problems may be found at Clausing by contacting Tom Clark there.He has been very supportive to members of our Atlas groups.Email: tclarkx~xxclausingsc.com and attach pictures if helpful.[Remember to change the email address x~xx to the "at" symbol.]He will also return phone calls. (800)535-6553 is the main number.

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NOTE TO FILE: LEVELING A LATHE -- A SIMPLE SOLUTION.

[And of course, we are not truly "leveling" the lathe, but rathermaking sure the lathe when mounted and bolted down does not have a twistin its bed shears that would result in turning errors as cuts proceedalong the bed.]

The next message comes after a long discussion in the myfordlathesgroup at Yahoo about that frequent subject. Naturally there was theusual long back and forth (we've seen many over the years) about whetherRollie's Dad's Method works well, or whether one needs a precisionlevel (or can make do with various lesser levels, or even makeyour own precision level first), or use laser pointers aimed at farwalls (the walls certainly aren't far in my tiny workshop), and so on.

Then Adrian recounts a simple but effective method that has been writtenup before in old British texts. It will work with any make of lathe.

And this method does not care if the lathe is on a bench whose topis perfectly level, or slanted slightly on a hill, or located on agently rolling ship.

It is similar to the method written up by L.H. Sparey in his must-havebook "The Amateur's Lathe".

The reference to using jack screws does relate to specific featuresfound on some Myfords; lacking those, the rest of us will make dowith various thicknesses of shim stock placed under the feet of thelathe. Use thin brass or other metal; pieces cut from walls of pop(or beer?) cans work well. Shims can have a slot cut in them that willmake it easy to slip the shim around the bolt, under the lathe foot.

And yes, the other methods may work out for you. Your choice.One dispassionate final test is to put a precision test barbetween centers and clock it end to end with a dial indicator.

And now for something completely different, as they used to say on

Monty Python's Flying Circus. One fellow quite seriously said he neverbothered to do any of this, just set the lathe down and used it. Hisrequirements did not need super precision, and most items were turnednear the headstock where bed twist would have minimal effect. Choices.

Take your time and do it well the first time. Recheck after you haveused the lathe for a while. A bit more precision can't hurt.

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[myfordlathes]Re: Feedback,comments or suggestions concerning the 'Correct' way toPosted by: "le_capeau_noir" adrian.brownex~xxvirgin.net le_capeau_noirDate: Fri Feb 24, 2012 10:52 am ((PST))

Hi fellow Myford owners,

I recently joined and have been catching up on the thread concerninglevelling a lathe on set-up. This can be done without the use of aprecision level.

1. Assuming that the lathe has its original headstock and there is noplay in the bearings it is unlikely that the spindle is out of parallelwith the lathe axis.

2. Assuming that the spindle nose is in good condition then fitting achuck (also in good condition) will allow you to chuck a bar true tothe lathe axis.

3. Chuck a silver steel bar as these are ground to high accuracy.Use a piece of at least 1/2" diameter 3/4" is preferable. The use ofthicker bar avoids droop under self weight.

4. Set a dial gauge in the toolpost. Using the saddle handwheel bringthe dial gauge up to the chuck and then move it away by about halfan inch.

5. Using the cross-slide feedscrew bring the dial gauge into contact withthe bar from at least 1/4" away until a suitable reading is obtained onthe gauge. Don't be tempted to wind it back out slightly, go straight inas this ensures that all backlash is taken up.

6. Using the saddle handwheel traverse the saddle several inches towardsthe tailstock. Again don't be tempted to turn the handwheel in theopposite direction. Turn it in the same direction in one continuousmovement.

7. Read the dial gauge. If the bed is in good condition then anydifference will be due to twist in the lathe bed. Leave the holding-downbolts at the headstock end tight and gently adjust one of the jack-screwson the raising blocks at the tailstock end until the dial gauge readingis the same. Note that we are talking about differences of a few thou,anything larger requires further investigation.

Hope this is of use. I've owned my trusty ML7 for 40 years (second owner

from new 63 years ago).

RegardsAdrian Browne

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New Member Here [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "dukesalley" yankeewoodwrightx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Feb 26, 2012 12:27 pm ((PST))

Hi all, my name is Joe and I love Atlas / Craftsman machines. The firstmachine I ever owned was a 1963 Craftsman "100" Table Saw which my Dadbought for me when I was a young teenager so I could learn cabinetmaking.Later in life I switched careers and became a machinist.

As a hobby I started restoring old machines and that developed into abusiness that became a joy to work at. I took an extreme liking to themachines made by Atlas from the 1930's through the early 1960's. I haverestored Lathes, Mills, Shapers, Drill Presses, etc.

I am posting some photos of a few of my restored machines. Most of thesemachines were rusty relics long ago abandoned and facing the junk yard.It was a pleasure to rescue them and give them new life and the respectthey deserved.

I also have a collection of Craftsman catalogs, 1933 through 1965 (missing1934) so if anyone needs a scan of a machine, please let me know. It maytake a few days to get around to it (I move a little slower now that I'm65) but I will get to it. I hope you like the photos, it was a labor oflove.

Best regards,Joe

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Re: Atlas 618 Lathe [atlas618lathe]Posted by: "n2irz" donrotolox~xxoptimum.netDate: Wed Mar 14, 2012 1:17 pm ((PDT))

Larry wrote:> Newbe here, I have Atlas 618 Lathe Model 3950. The Cross-slide hasmovement front to back, how can I get that out? Thanks, Larry <

Larry, You do not necessarily need to. 0.010" movement is no problem.Some backlash is unavoidable and can actually be beneficial.

Remember that you always back the crossfeed out of the cut as you getnear the headstock, so if you always approach the setting from thesame direction (feeding in for example) then that backlash is of noconsequence.

To reduce it, you can buy a new crossfeed nut from Clausing Indusrial.

I have also modified these nuts so that the backlash is adjustable:Remove the nut, using a fine saw cut a slit across the nut 1 thread fromone end, starting at the (thicker) top. End the slit just before the sawtouches the bottom thread, maybe 1/4" away from cutting through. Drill ahole for a fine machine screw - say, 10-32 - so the screw will close upthe slit when tightened. Tap the hole, then drill out the part of the holeoutboard of the slit so the screw threads don't grab. Insert a screwcoated with blue Loctite and assemble the crossfeed so the screw head isfacing rearwards. Tighten the screw until the backlash is where you wantit - you don't need or want zero! - and let the loctite set.

Don't do this with a badly worn nut.

Don

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Re: Atlas 618 LathePosted by: "lballewegx~xxgmail.com" lballewegx~xxgmail.comDate: Sun Mar 18, 2012 8:31 pm ((PDT))

You can remove cross-slide backlash by tightening the Jam-Nut betweenthe Graduated Collar (M6-17) and the Ball-Crank (M6-104).

First loosen the set-screw on the Graduated-Collar, take out the lashwith the Jam-Nut, then retighten the set-screw.

Not too tight or the shaft won't turn.

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Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlas [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "a8050266" mail4samx~xxgmail.comDate: Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:29 am ((PDT))

All, I have a 10 Atlas headstock Im am interested in rebuilding.

IT came with a babbit bearing heads. And though it is useable, it's soonto be in need of a babbit re-pouring. With this in mind I decided tolocate a Timken headstock that I could use from here on out. (Not tomention I perhaps could attempt the re-pouring but not likely.)

I purchased one. But am interested in rebuilding it and then taking careof it for the rest of its potential life.

Here is what I have found. I have scoured the net... and read many postsregarding inspection, replacement, do's and don'ts. What I have may infact be in good condition. And I would not want to damage it further.However Im not afraid to spend a little $$ and time. to insure itscondition or perhaps bearing replacement.

I have read enough posts to hear that it is possible to cause some damageremoving the bearing even if just for inspection. Also, some postsalluding that the bearings are cross referable to some chrysler spindle

bearings. What I have not found is some absolute info regarding the actualbearing replacements and or what to do if the dust covers are damagedduring the servicing.

I have called Clausing and they say one of the 4 dust covers is available,and the bearing may or may not be available as they call in orders asneeded from some other supplier.

Any suggestions out there?

And as always, Thanks in Advance!Sam

Forgot to add:Q1: Does removing the bearings require the damaging of the dust covers (meaning is it not possible to do and keep the dust covers intact?)Q2: does anyone have the Atlas Docs regarding the servicing/R&R of the bearings?

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Mon Mar 19, 2012 7:40 am ((PDT))

Q1: Mine were not damaged by pulling the spindle.

Q2: http://scottandersonpipes.com/atlas_press/servicebulletins.htm

There are instructions on removing the spindle.

The Timken bearing and race part numbers are in the files area, here isa copy of the text: Timken bearing part numbers for 10 and 12" lathes

The Timken bearings (on both 10 and 12-inch versions of the Atlas) hadparts numbers that appear to have been (consistent over the years)as follows: Big Cone = 16150 Big Cup = 16284B Small Cone = 14125A Small Cup = 14276B.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "amrsandubyx~xxyahoo.com"Date: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:08 am ((PDT))

One thing to attend to when removing the spindle that the front insidedust cover has a notch that should let the Gear key pass through when

being pushed out, meaning you have to align the key notch on the gearwith the notch on the dust cover for not damaging the dust cover. Becausewhen you push the spindle out from the back the key from the gear startsto appear and will need to pass through the notch for the spindle tocome out. I found out the hard way.. :)And ended up repairing my dust cover.

Hope this is helpful.Amro

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Ray" ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Mar 19, 2012 8:40 am ((PDT))

Sam, using a couple of "tricks" disassembling that headstock is a 5minute job, tops:

1. Loosen the setscrew on the inside left collar. Loosen the threadedcollar setscrew, remove the threaded collar (there is a thread protectingaluminum plug in the setscrew hole) and bump the spindle rightward untilthe Bull gear woodruff key just touches the right inside dust cover.That is as far as the spindle will go while the woodruff key is installed.Slide the bull gear to the left as far as it will go. Now ROTATE the bullgear woodruff out of its slot. Then bump the spindle to the right. Thatwill remove the right outer dust cover.

2. The other covers can be popped out without damage with a motorcycletire iron.

The bearing cups are specific to your lathe. The cones are common autoparts used in front suspension and differential applications. I havezero computer skills and even I found their applications. You'll haveno trouble.

Spindles and bearings from lathe choppers are on ebay all the time. Veryrecently I saw the bearing cups alone.

Any questions?

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Mon Mar 19, 2012 10:21 am ((PDT))

> Q1: Does removing the bearings require the damaging of the dust covers.> (meaning is it not possible to do and keep the dust covers intact?)

No, some of the dust covers will be pushed out without damage. Theothers can be picked out with a pointed tool, they generally are a VERY

light press-fit and willcome out easily.

> Q2: does anyone have the Atlas Docs

It is in our files section athttp://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/EGZnT9jk1aU4xWGRLabigbImQCsu7Wrd20HUMIf4FU_3aj6wHTGqlIPndBJbo-Q9cepSTdXiE56ivjK353RK/Replacing%20the%20Spindle%20and%20Timken%20Bearings.doc

and also a link in our Links section to a wayback link of the Atlasinstructions.

> Will I require / end up removing all the dust covers?

Yes, remove them all, they are flimsy and you'll smash them whileperforming the other procedures to replace the bearings. The outerraces need to be pressed out.

Jon

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Ray" ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:54 am ((PDT))

Jon, those roller bearing sheet metal dust covers can be removed withzero damage. I've done it with a motorcycle tire iron.

Here's how I look at those challenges. Those pieces of metal areinanimate objects that are resisting my efforts. Do I want to beoutsmarted by an inanimate object? No. I will figure out a way to imposemy will on it.

Finess is always more effective than brute force. Hammers are for drivingnails.

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Ray" ray.waldbaumx~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 3:16 pm ((PDT))

Sam, the spindle and all the stuff mounted on it and the bearing cones canbe removed with the inner dust covers left in place. To remove the bearingcups the outer dust covers have to come off.

A couple things to remember about the bearings: The cups are lathespecifc but the cones have car/truck applications and thus are much lessexpensive. I sure wouldn't buy any from China, though. Chinese bearingsare garbage. I just replaced the ball bearings in my wife's vacuum cleanerand after some searching I found Japanese Nachi bearings at VBX.com

(VBX dot com). It may be tempting to hammer the cups out but pressing themout/in while supporting the casting totally avoids the risk of breakingthe casting.

"Lathe chopper" to me means someone who buys complete lathes and partsthem out. It's not a critical term, it's capitalism. I'm not againstselling some lathe parts that have been gathering dust around here fordecades or doing some horse trading.

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "inspiro_creo" david.deboizex~xxverizon.netDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:05 pm ((PDT))

As far as removing the cups. If you don't have a press or it iscumbersome, I used a 1" square piece of soft wood about 12" long and fromone end of the headstock gingerly tap it with a dead blow hammer in acircular pattern. Then repeat for the opposite. To install tap in witha shorter pieace of wood in a circular pattern until it is seatedproperly. I have a press, but found this easier. I mean gingerly in acircular pattern.

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "abobinhiscave" abobinhiscavex~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 5:23 pm ((PDT))

For installing... I found a short piece of pvc pipe at Home Depot, it'salmost exactly the right size (just a tad large) for a couple bucks.

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 8:50 pm ((PDT))

a8050266 wrote:> I discovered some of the parts are damaged. I'll do a part number> comparison. As my Babbit headstock has perfect parts. If Im lucky> some of the parts can be replaced with them.

Most of the headstock parts, other than the actual bearings and maincasting are interchangeable. A few other parts are in the area of theclamping ring that replaces the thrust washer. So, at worst, you mightneed to make up a spacer ring.

> Moving forward I went to my local NAPA to pick up the 2 bearing parts> .... Only to find out they are not the right parts... "MAJOR BUMMER!"> the 2 parts are 16284B & 14276B

You can buy bearings at any power transmission outfit. These are placeslike "Bearings Inc." that carry bearings, shafts, pulleys belts and thelike. You can also check McMaster-Carr and Grainger's.

Jon

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:48 pm ((PDT))

Sam: Further to what Jon wrote, most of the parts on the spindle,including the pulley, three gears, three bushings and threaded collar,interchange. The pulley does not have a key, because it must spin fasterthan the spindle when running in back gear. The woodruff key locks thebull gear (largest of the four back gears) to the spindle.

Unfortunately, the spindle is one of the parts that do NOT interchange.If the keyseat in the spindle is damaged, but the bull gear still fitswithout a lot of wobble, you might take the spindle to a machine shop andhave them cut a new keyseat on the opposite side of the spindle.

If you do have to replace the spindle, it shows as being the same partnumber all the way up to and including in the 3996 (final model 12"built).

Robert Downs - Houstonwa5cab dot com (Web Store)

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Re: Timken Bearings 10 or 12 atlasPosted by: "db45acp" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Mar 20, 2012 9:57 pm ((PDT))

Sam, Check HERE: http://www.jbr17llc.com/

They have what should be the correct Timken bearings for A/C 10 & 12inch lathes. They also have SKF bearings, though higher priced. Theyaccept credit cards & PayPal.

Here is what I have ordered from them (twice now in 3 years $130.00 forall 4 delivered) and prices have only gone up a couple of dollars since:14125A Cone14276B Cup16150 Cone16284B Cup

Dan

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Re: atlas 10fPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:02 am ((PDT))

Minor nomenclature point that might be important when talking or writingto a vendor - both parts of a separable tapered roller bearing have

races. The outer race is commonly called the cup. The inner race is AKAthe cone.

Robert Downs - Houstonwa5cab dot com (Web Store)

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Re: atlas 10fPosted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:37 am ((PDT))

I believe the cups are almost exclusive to Atlas lathes and some Dodgetrucks from the 1940"s. They show up on eBay sometimes but WHEREVER youfind them the number must be EXACT, i.e 14276B & 16284B. DIFFERENT fromjust 14276 and 16284.

Search eBay with the individual numbers or call the company in the linkI sent. They have the correct parts.

Dan

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Saving Your Change Gears [tangent from LUBES] [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "L. Garlinghouse" lhghousex~xxsuddenlink.netDate: Sat May 5, 2012 8:26 am ((PDT))

Aside from lubing your change gears, maybe the best thing you can do-- IFyou are NOT going to be using any of the feeds -- is just drop the "banjo"gear carrier down so that the change gears do not engage with the spindlepinion/drive gear. If the gears don't spin, they don't wear.

After years of not thinking things through and laziness it occurred to methat as most of my jobs are very small and one-offers I was hand feedingalmost everything. Do I need to mention that whatever feed I had set thechange gears to was the wrong one after that job was finished?

Once I replaced the half-nuts and saw how fragile the feed drive systemwas [IMHO -- yea, yea it lasted half a century, but . . .] I was evenmore concerned about wear and tear and it occurred to me to give the gearsa rest if I wan't going to be putting them to work.

BTW, after a long agonizing make-or-buy inner discussion with myself Iopted for buying 2 sets of split nuts from Clausing and was very pleasedwith the price and service. I've stuck the 2nd set and the originals alongwith the instructions in a soup can wired to the lathe in a safe place.That way in another 50 years or so the new owner can keep making chips.

L8r,

L.H. Arkansas

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Re: Saving Your Change Gears [tangent from LUBES]Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sat May 5, 2012 8:33 am ((PDT))

That is probably only for the 9 and 10" lathes. Most other models havea tumbler reversing gear that disconnects the gear train when not in use.

One of these days I'll finish the power feed used for non-threading.Then the only use for gears is threading.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: Lathe Ways Reground [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net" jtiersDate: Sat May 12, 2012 10:09 pm ((PDT))

May 11, 2012 "Jim Wight" <jwight2x~xxtx.rr.com> wrote> Is there anyone who Knows of a place in Dallas or Fort Worth that> would regrind ways on my Craftsman lathe, I'll tear it down myself.> I'm in the process of rebuilding my 1947, 101.07403 that will be the> major part of the rebuild. Thanks for any help that shows up.> JD Wight The colony Texas

You might consider an alternative to that.

While grinding is a good, trouble free way (if the grinder hand does agood job) of dealing with the bed, it is rather expensive, and many maynot consider that an Atlas is worth spending the money on. A 10EE mostdefinitely is, since to buy a new one (if it is still possible) would costin excess of 50 thousand dollars, and refurbishing completely at thefactory is 20 thousand or so.

Grinding by "Bubba" may be cheap, and you may get just what you pay for(cheap work), depending on how good Bubba is, and how good his machineis. But how will you know? You have to trust that Bubba won't grind a"knuckle" or twist in the bed due to a fault in the grinder or hisworkmanship. And even Bubba will likely charge several hundred at least.

Given that, one might resonably consider alternatives. The Atlas bed issimplicity itself, a pair of flat, parallel bars cast together withsupporting structure. The material is cast iron, not hardened.

That being the case, it is quite reasonable for a relatively unskilledperson to be able to scrape the bed instead of grinding it. The necessaryequipment won't cost an excessive amount, less than grinding by anyonebut "Bubba" would, and will remain in your possession for later use.

The skill necessary to scrape a flat surface, or several of them, is thevery least required of all the possible scraping jobs, and is fairlyeasily learned from smaller practice jobs done first. The time required iscompetitive with the time to take apart and lovingly strip and repaint thewhole machine, with the added benefit that scraping actually influencesits function, not just its appearance.

I quite understand if you don't like the idea, or don't want to mess withit, etc, etc. I present it as an idea, a practical one, and one that Iwould judge is well within the capability of any dedicated home shopworker, but it isn't everyone's oyster, and that's fine.

Those who are candidates to do this will take up the idea, others mayprefer to have someone grind the bed, or perhaps simply decide that itis "good enough" as-is.

As for information, there currently is a series of articles beingpublished in "The Home Shop Machinist" magazine covering scraping fromequipment through techniques and procedure. A good, well written series,informative and more importantly, correct. "The book" on scraping is theConnolley book advertised in HSM, but the articles will, I think, carryone through most simple jobs.

JT

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Re: 6" Atlas-Craftsman lathe [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Fri May 18, 2012 6:19 pm ((PDT))

shootera3 wrote:> I have a problem. The direct drive coupling keeps popping out when under> a load. Any advice?

There is supposed to be a detent on this pin. Can you feel the detent whenyou engage the pin? If not, then there is an angled setscrew, spring andball that are supposed to hold the pin in place. Check those parts fordamage/missing.

If that is all good, then the hole in the pulley is probably worn into atapered shape. If the hole for the drive pin is the problem, it canprobably be bored up to a slightly larger size and a new pin made to fitmore snugly.

Or, the bushings on the pulley are worn out, allowing the pulley to wobbleon the spindle as it rotates. If the bushings are shot, they can be pushedout and replaced, although you pretty much need a working lathe to makethe repair parts.

Jon

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A helpful tip for... [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "crashbone256" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:55 pm ((PDT))

The half nut lever on my 12" AC tends to engage on its own. I use thethread dial to keep it up when I'm not using it, but when I am cuttingthreads, the darn lever won't stay up.

The tip...remove the handle and fit an O-ring over the shaft up againstthe apron. Replace the handle. The screw applies compression/friction tothe O-ring that holds the lever in position.

Works for me, YMMV.

lance

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Dan Buchanan" db45acpx~xxyahoo.comDate: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:35 pm ((PDT))

On all my Atlas or Craftsman 10" & 12" lathes there is a screw (which hasa spring and ball) just above the half-nut lever and just to the right ofthe oiler pocket on the front of the apron. The screw is used to adjustthe detent action or tension of the lever so the half nuts will stay inthe desired position whether engaged or not.

See the Atlas File 10F-12-1 "Split Nut Installation" instruction sheet.I believe it is in the file section as a .jpg file.

http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/MKcUUPwXSz-qUYmN0y_9tzbWn01QnhNfTdAtFW3zxsbxSj0EewfvMms3AVIQMA1ej-jG0aAbMdeheACfLOt8tHLnjFt1/101-07403%20Split%20Nut%20Installation%2009-1967%20%28Large%29.jpg )

If you cannot find it, let me know and I'll email you a copy.

Dan[This message was corrected by Dan in a later message and this originalmessage has now been amended to reflect his later comments.]

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Gary Bauer" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:09 pm ((PDT))

Thanks for the info Dan. I just discovered that set screw burried in thedirt on my 12x36 Atlas resto project. After cleaning the threaded 1/4-20inch hole I notice that the set screw itself does not reach the rub area

of the split nut plates. It likely need a small piece of lead or plasticin there to do te job properly which is typical.

Gary in AZ

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sun Jul 29, 2012 6:57 pm ((PDT))

I believe there is supposed to be a ball and spring behind the screw.9-210 and 9-61 in my parts list.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Eggleston Lance" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:37 pm ((PDT))

Dan, Thanks for the tip. I took the screw out, nothing appears to be inthe hole. I tightened the screw up and the lever was bound.

I twiddled the screw adjustment and voila, a click to a detent.It's a new "feature" of the lathe; I didn't have the screw dialed infar enough for it to do anything. BTW, I removed the O-ring.

lance

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:05 pm ((PDT))

This will work for a while, but it will destroy the half nut by gouging aslot in it. You need a spring and ball. A spring from a ballpoint pen anda ball from a wrecked ball bearing will fix it.

Jon

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Sun Jul 29, 2012 10:19 pm ((PDT))

This is also the sort of part Clausing usually still has. FWIW, if yougouge a groove in the scroll with the set screw nose, the ball won't work.They also have new scrolls. :-)

Robert Downs - Houstonwa5cab dot com (Web Store)

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.comDate: Tue Jul 31, 2012 11:54 am ((PDT))

Hello Robert, I tried a ballpoint spring that was too large but found aspring in my parts storage that was perfect. Also found a small ballbearing of about 3/16 inch diameter that fit fine after cleaning the¼-20 threads with a tap.

The split nut lever works great now.

Thanks again,Gary in SCW, AZ

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Re: A helpful tip for...Posted by: "Eggleston Lance" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Thu Aug 2, 2012 6:13 pm ((PDT))

On Aug 2, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Guenther Paul wrote:> Did you bu chance measure the ball and the od of the spring ?

3/16" ball OD. Spring diam less than that.

lance

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock Adjustments [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Russ Kepler" russx~xxkepler-eng.comDate: Thu Aug 2, 2012 6:20 am ((PDT))

On Thursday, August 02, 2012 09:42:37 AM danolog16 wrote:> It seems like there are 4 coordinates of alignment: height, elevationtilt, azimuth tilt, and horizontal play between the ways.The height seems like it could be raised with shims, but to lower wouldrequire machining or other material removal. <

Shimming is not so uncommon. I've never seen a tailstock too high, if Idid I'd take it back (if new) or put in a thinner shim. Generally theyshould arrive new and maybe .001" high and wear down.

> The horizontal play seems like its a matter of adjusting the gib betweenthe ways. I've also noticed that when unlocking the tailstock to allow itto move along the ways, the top half has some play in it. There are linesin the back of the tailstock that looks like they line up, but it seemslike I shouldn't have to do that every time. <

The top of the tailstock may be shifted across the ways using the screwsin the sides of the base. On my 12" Atlas they look like very long setscrews, others may have SHCS or bolts. If the top is 'loose' when unlockedthen these have not been tightened on the top of the tailstock. In usethese are generally adjusted as you adjust opposing 4-jaw chucks - loosenon side then tighten the other until the movement you want is observed.

> The elevation and azimuth tilts are harder to judge their exactpositions and seems like its mostly caused by interference in the ways.I would think the easiest way to adjust these would be to place shimsbetween the two tailstock halves, though they might move given the playbetween them. <

Elevation tilt is often found in older lathes due to the way the tailstockis moved - lifting up the back end a little and scooting it along theways. This gives preferential wear to the front of the tailstock, causingthe nose to dip. It's often hard to measure this as the quill and barrelof the tailstock will also see wear that may be read this way, but usinga bar through the barrel usually gives yo something long enough to getgood readings. Short of scraping the bottom to the ways and scraping thetop flat there's really no good way of fixing this sort of problem (atleast until you figure out how to make a tapered shim). A worn barrel canbe fixed by honing it out cylindrical and making a new quill (in somecases you might hard chrome the old quill and grind to size).

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Daniel Logue" danolog16x~xxyahoo.comDate: Thu Aug 2, 2012 9:58 pm ((PDT))

I've got it aligned all except the height. I'm afraid it's a little toohigh :(

>From numerous other posts it seems that tailstocks usually come a fewthous too high. What is an acceptable height for it to be running toohigh at? Mine is noticeably high, so I think it's more than a few thous.So I know that the only way to lower it is to a material removal operationon the tailstock base, since there's no setting on the tailstock to adjustheight and raising the headstock seems unrealistic. <

The two options for lowering are grinding or milling. Then it seems theobvious places to do it is where the base meets the top section. I wouldthink the base is easier to operate on since it has a flat bottom asapposed to the top with the complex surfaces.

Any ideas? Has anyone ever had to lower a tailstock before?

Thanks

Dan

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" wa5cabx~xxcs.comDate: Thu Aug 2, 2012 10:49 pm ((PDT))

Dan,How did you determine that the tailstock is too high? In the normal courseof usage, that seems unlikely (since wear would lower, not raise it),unless it was too high from the factory, which is also unlikely. Or unlessscale has built up on the bottom of the tailstock casting and the top ofthe base.

Although the Atlas manual gives the method of turning a test piece betweencenters as the method to use to set the tailstock front-back offset, thesine-bar method is quicker. And after setting the front-back offsetaccurately, by putting the indicator to run on the top of bottom of thebar, will also indicate relative height of the head and tailstocks.However, good sine-bars, like precision levels, are not cheap.

Before grinding or scraping on anything, I would remove the tailstockcasting from the base and thoroughly clean the mating surfaces. If in theend, you do need to do any height adjusting, I would do it on top ofthe base, which is the only one of the three candidate surfaces withnothing protruding above or below it. Plus, if something goes awry andyou ruin the part you are cutting on, the base is cheaper than thetailstock.

Robert D.

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Thu Aug 2, 2012 11:29 pm ((PDT))

Mine was about 0.004 too low.

You could shim up the headstock rather than mill the tailstock.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Fri Aug 3, 2012 7:29 am ((PDT))

The tailstock on an OLD machine can be too high really for only ONE

reason.....

The tailstock is NOT original................Someone LOST the tailstock,and later someone else got "a tailstock" for it, never bothering to seeif it was correctly adjusted, and that is the one you have.

For some reason tailstocks seem to GET lost.... maybe they are taken offwhen moving the unit, set aside, and never picked up, maybe they are takenoff to put on a turret, or maybe the lathe was sold as a turret unit andnever had one. Common for Logan and others, but I didn't know Atlas everHAD a turret available, nor that they were sold as turret machines, sothat last reason may not apply.

You might check to see if that one really IS "high", or if it is "pointedup"..... if the latter, shimming the BACK will point it down again.

Usually there is no way to put the base portion on backwards (the sidewaysadjustment often "keys" it), but maybe with A/C it is possible, in whichcase it may BE really tilted down when base is in proper position, butwith the base part put on backwards it tilts up. Somebody's idea of a fix?

JT

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Fri Aug 3, 2012 11:19 pm ((PDT))

Well, since the lathe is old I think I'd try a few things beforegrinding/milling the tailstock base top surface:

1. Scrape the ways. It could be there are small nicks that are raising the tailstock up a small amount.2. Check the bottom of the tailstock base (and the two mating surfaces of the base/tailstock) for burs or nicks or scarf. If you find any maybe you could remove them using a special flat sharpening stone (such as those used for sharpening planer blades) or, a piece of 600 grit sand paper on a flat piece of steel (a part of the lathe).

To check to see if the tailstock is pointed up or down maybe you couldcheck it by extending the barrel out different ammounts and checking thehead/tail height difference. This is dependent on your barrel not beingworn, your bed being level and free of raised nicks. It is probably bestto check it at 0 extension and then 2" or 3" extension but not the fullextension.

If you use a vertical steel rule between head/tail centers to amplify thevertical offset, you might be able to calculate the offset using a plumbbob, another rule and trigonometry.

You seem determined and hopeful. I pray for your success.

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "John" jeknoxx~xxknoxusa.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 7:54 am ((PDT))

Hi Dan, I have not followed the Atlas lathe group much lately but on thistailstock thing I believe I may be able to help settle things a bit.

Let me suggest you put a piece of stock in a chuck or collet that is a bitlarger than the tailstock quill diameter let it extend out from the chuckor collet by 3 to 4 inches. Now carefully turn the OD for maybe 3/8" to adiameter "exactly" the same as the tailstock quill with a nice finish.

Next, bring the tailstock up so with the quill extender enough to bewithin 1/4" of the piece you have turned, now mount an indicator on thecompound such that the pointer (contact tip) contacts the top of the quillor turned piece with just enough contact to move the indicator by 2 to 4thou. Now carefully move the cross-slide forward & back & record thegreatest reading, now move the carriage to place the indicator point onthe other diameter & use the cross-slide to get the greatest reading.(Do-Not move anything except the carriage & cross-slide & slightly holdyour breath!) Do this at least twice just to see if it will repeat, if sothe difference between the 2 readings is the difference in the height ofthe headstock & tailstock.

I believe American lathe standards, (depending on what class you look at)indicate the tailstock center when new should be .0005 to .001 high withall the other specifications such as be straightness, alignment etc. allwithin standard limits. BTW while you have this setup you may want tolocate the indicator point on front of the turned piece & quill as nearlyon center as you can & traverse the carriage to see what the front & backdifference is.

Note, this reading can be affected some by bed twist if that is present.Hope some of this may help!

Regards,John K

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "gennady_123" zoyagenax~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 9:40 am ((PDT))

John,

Is not it simpler just to put the indicator or DTI in the chuck with thetip on TS quill and rotating the chuck read the difference indicating onupper and lower part of the quill? You also can read it on front and backsides so you may have a full picture of concentricity (both vertical andhorizontal) of HS and TS.

Best regards,Gennady

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "John" jeknoxx~xxknoxusa.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 1:05 pm ((PDT))

Hi Gennady, Yes it is OK to read front to rear on a horizontalappilcation but the up & down reading can not be relied upon to beaccurate.

Best Regards,John K

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 9:48 am ((PDT))

The only problem there is the keyway at the bottom of the ram (quill).If you are careful to avoid that, your method should work. The problemwith the keyway is that the bump when the indicator hits that spot mayshift the zero a bit.

Jon

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "gennady_123" zoyagenax~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 12:45 pm ((PDT))

To avoid the keyway problem, the dead center can be inserted in TS andyou can indicate it as close to the quill as you wish.

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "John" jeknoxx~xxknoxusa.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 12:58 pm ((PDT))

Hi Gennady, You are absolutely correct it is a lot easier however it isfar less accurate. To prove my point put a 1-1/2 or 2" scrap bar hanging6 or 8" out of the chuck then fix the indicator base to the chuck, nowput the point of the indicator right up close to the chuck, rotate thechuck by hand watching the indicator "varlar" the reading is most likely

"0" now leave the indicator base where it is and extend the indicator outto within a short distance from the end of the bar, now turn the chuck byhand & observe the indicator; the reading now is the sag in the indicatorsupport or mounting the bar is not wobbling or high.

The moral to this is, be very careful sweeping a hole or bore on ahorizontal, unlike doing the same thing on a vertical machine.

Best Regards,John K

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "gennady_123" zoyagenax~xxyahoo.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 3:08 pm ((PDT))

Jon and John:Yes, both of you may be right. Just for the reference, to be sure we aretalking about the same thing, here is what prompted my suggestion:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EZh8SUoA4o&feature=related

It does not look to me that Tubalcain's setup will sag down under theweight of indicator. I will try it myself to see how it works.

Best regards,Gennady

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 4:08 pm ((PDT))

Certainly, some mediocre indicator mounts are awful, but a well-mademagnetic mount with a flat bottom, or a bar held in the chuck, will notsag enough to matter when turned upside down. I have had to hand-scrapethe bottom of my magnetic mount to get it to sit flat without rocking,but then it worked quite well.

Jon

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Sun Aug 5, 2012 3:21 pm ((PDT))

Gennady: Actually, while it might be a moot point, you're measuring thewrong thing.

You're not interested in the OD, you're interested in the bore. You could

even go so far as to say you're interested in the center of the bore andthe truth of the axial alignment of the Morse taper. While you mightexpect the OD to be concentric to the bore there's no guarantee that thatis true.

Better to take your reading a 1/4" or 1/2" inside the bore rather than onthe OD of the quill, just on general principles.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Jon Elson" elsonx~xxpico-systems.comDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 4:10 pm ((PDT))

anthrhodesx~xxaol.com wrote:> You're not interested in the OD, you're interested in the bore.

Yes, this is a good point. No easy way to know how accurate the ID / ODalignment is.

Measuring the inside of the taper is harder, but can be done with finger-type DTIs. You may need a mirror to see the reading as you rotate theindicator.

Jon

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Re: [atlas_craftsman_projects] Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.netDate: Sun Aug 5, 2012 6:06 pm ((PDT))

If the truth is said. With the tailstock a bit higher or lower it will notcreate a taper cut between centers. I don't believe any make lathe has aperfect alignment tailstock to headstock. The levelness of the bed playsa big role as well.

GP

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NOTE TO FILE: This above topic continued to ramble on but I tuned out.A month later there was a posting with the happy end of the story --see next message.

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Re: Tailstock AdjustmentsPosted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:31 pm ((PDT))

OK, here's the end of the story: Daniel, our intern, left to go back toCalifornia (we're in Thailand). A professor from Cal Poly came to visitbringing an alignment bar with him. I taught Noy (a village housewifewith a GED junior high education) to set up and read the dial caliper.

The 1" diameter, 12" long alignment bar was between centers. She zeroedthe tailstock horizontaly. Vertically we showed the tailstock too high.

We borrowed a 1" wide scraper from Nong Khai technical college andscraped the ways. We got very little change. We took the tailstock offits base and took a fine whetstone to the top of the base. She assembledand measured - no change. She disassembled. I discovered a lip of metalflashing around the edge of the bottom of the tailstock. We scraped thatoff. We were down to .005" high. We tried sanding the top of the base withsome fine sand paper. No change. So, I measured the thickness carefully,took it to a machine shop and he milled it down to the thickness I wanted.We assembled it and it was spot on. The alignment bar is back at Cal Poly.

Thanks to everyone. [:)]

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TS Experience on 6 inch [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "c_h_a_r_t_n_y" mgibsonx~xxstny.rr.comDate: Thu Aug 9, 2012 11:25 am ((PDT))

I tried the indicator on the bar in the chuck on my 6-18. It showed 0.010"difference which is off 0.005" from center. I loosened the hold down boltand tried to center it with the opposing screws and it did not work. Thetop casting tried to lift off the bottom casting a few thousandths. Thisshould slide freely. I took it apart and found paint between the halves.Clearly original paint as it has not been repainted.

I indicated the OD of the TS Ram with it tight.

And then the rest of the story. The screws are cup point hardened setscrews. The post on the casing they hit is "as cast" and they dig into it.I took a Dermal and ground the casting surface, as that is hard to file inthe as cast surface. Then I took a flat file and made the contact sidesflat. I took the set screws and ground the cup off a bit on the side of afine grinding wheel. Wet sanded the mating parts with 400G paper to getthe paint and rust off.

Cleaned, oiled, and assemble and it works great. Adjusted and with theholddown bolt tight I get this;

Now as I turn the dial indicator, the sides are within a thou and the top

in between the two.

Of course I know not to do the bottom. ;-))

chart

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[atlas_craftsman]Rebuilding My 10F, But Needs Scraping Or Other..Help Please...Posted by: "bigcheif4" patrickonbx~xxgmail.comDate: Fri Aug 17, 2012 1:41 pm ((PDT))

Hello Gang,It's been awhile since my last post, but in the last couple of weeks Ihave decided to rebuild my 10F and see if I can get it back up tostandards... or so I thought!

The cross and compound slides have some issues. I cannot go to far ineither direction on them without some unwanted binding happening. In thesmall area that they seem to slide pretty nicely, it's also got some slop.If I try and tighten up the gibs to take up the slop, then it of courseminimizes the travel.

So, I was looking around the net for ways to fix this problem and foundthis article on "Lapping the Dovetails" at the "Mini Lathe dot Com"website. Basically, you use a lapping compound on the ways of say thecross slide, work the two back and forth, clean, re-do, etc. until youtake off enough of the high spots that you get a nice even smooth slidefrom the thing. Then move on and do the same to the compound slide.

I was pretty excited about this until doing more research and finding thatbasically all you are doing with this technique is destroying the ways andit will not make things any better.

Well, more research later I am finding that the proper way of doingthings is to either "scrape" in the ways to be correct or have everythingre-ground to proper specs. Well, apparently one does not just buy a coupleof tools and scrape the ways in, it takes many hours of know how from anexperienced scraper to do things correctly. Well, that's not me.

So, the only thing left is to have things re-ground and I don't think I'mreally wanting to spend that kind of money. It sounds as though I couldprobably buy a new machine for the cost.

So anyway, I would like your input here. Is the lapping method OK to doon an old out of whack machine like mine or should I just repaint and sellit and move on?

Any thoughts and input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,Patrick

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(no subject)Posted by: "(no author)" (no email address)Date: Sat Aug 18, 2012 1:07 am ((PDT))

Hi Patrick, Some thoughts - Depends what you want to use the lathe for.

As you have correctly surmised, the ways have been worn in the area whereit is/was most used .

If you are going to use the lathe in the same area then it is generallynot a problem - snug it up for that area knowing that it will bind if youmove out of the area, but so what if you are not using its "extendedrange"?

Scraping and grinding is an option, but as you also correctly point out itis neither trivial nor cheap. The "Lapping" you refer to was generallymore applicable to smoothing out the finish on a new lathe which waspoorly finished rather than to address wear .

Depending on the level of accuracy you require there is another 'workaround' I picked up from a fitter in our workshop years ago. Replace acouple of the gib screws with Allen Cap screws which are quick andeasy to adjust.

Adjust the gib(s) to a compromise position so that it is slightly loose inthe worn area, and slightly tight in the unworn area, and use the Allencap screws to snug up the gib as you approach your final cuts. With a bitof experience you will quickly see that you need to say turn them by aneighth of a turn gauged by the position of the Allen Key you are using.

(Of course this won't really work if you are turning or facing an itemthat does require the full range of the lathe.)

If none of this appeals to you, then watch out for a lathe (or a bed) inbetter shape, but any flatbed lathe which is 50 years old and has beenused a lot will probably exhibit the same symptoms,

Regards,Carvel

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Re: Rebuilding My 10F, But Needs Scraping Or Other..Help Please...Posted by: "john baird" alexandra.leavingx~xxyahoo.co.ukDate: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:39 am ((PDT))

Hi Patrick, don't know if I am reading this right, but is your mainproblem the cross slide and compound? if that's the case, they should befixable, even if you have to remove them and take them to a local machineshop, over size gibs and all that, but then your message is also talkingabout "ways" and grinding -- is that the bed ways? -- which is then a muchbigger job.

Regardsjb

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Re: Rebuilding My 10F, But Needs Scraping Or Other..Help Please...Posted by: "JOHN PERRY" perry7122x~xxbellsouth.netDate: Sat Aug 18, 2012 4:48 am ((PDT))

My tailstock was binding and I found that through cleaning to remove thebuilt up gunk and oiling was sufficient to free things up nicely.

John

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Re: Rebuilding My 10F, But Needs Scraping Or Other..Help Please...Posted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8asDate: Sat Aug 18, 2012 8:26 am ((PDT))

FWIW ......a word on bed wear ....i am brazing & recutting several bullgear teeth on a logan 10 inquick change lathe ....there is 27 thou bedwear on the first 12 inches ..& i considered scraping, until i startedTHINKING abt it & checking .....BUT w/in that 12 inches there is lessthan 5 thou DIFFERENCE .......IIRC,..on a one inch bar, i once triggedout only a couple tenths variation w/ TEN thou bed wear.....the smallerthe diameter bar, the more variation, but even on a quarter inch bar, itis less than a thou & how often do you turn a 1/4 in bar for 12 inches.

THAT said ...a follower rest will mitigate near all longitudinal wear.!!!...if cutting a 24 in bar full length & i have NEVER done that in 50 +years ...set up the follower rest on the high part of bed & as you cutwhere bed is worn, the follower rest will pull down the bar, keeping thebit on center & cutting the same amt.

FWIW #2 ..there are many who can do accurate work w/ pristine machines,BUT it requires more skill & experience to do accurate work on a wornmachine ...using one, you will become a better machinist.

FWIW #3 ....as a child, i complained to my daddy (an MIT engineer) thati didnt have the tools to do what i wanted ...he replied "any fool canmake a part w/ the right tools, it takes REAL talent to do it w/out theright tools" ......well, this was the depression time, & money beingshort, that colored his remark.... .daddy was almost always right, butthis time only 1/2 right since only the second part is true.

FWIW #4 .....today, i am using an 1895 14 inch Reed lathe w/ 9 thou bed

wear & 24 thou shims in the t/stock to get it up to center, making aface plate for a Barnes 9X22, from a ford F150 front rotor, & i have toadjust the xslide gibbs when i use the extremes of the Xslide ......so what !!

best wishesdoc

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Split nut lever removal on 618 mk2 [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "vachss" Frederick.Vachssx~xxboeing.comDate: Mon Aug 27, 2012 9:10 am ((PDT))

Hi, I'm repairing an Atlas 10100 (618 mk2) lathe and have found the splitnut lever on the right side of the carriage (part # M6-29) is very stiff(almost immovable). I'd like to pull it and clean/reassemble the cam towhich it attaches (part # M6-38), but can't figure out how to separatethe two. I've removed the carriage assembly from the lathe and the splitnuts, guide and ball and spring assembly from the carriage, but can't seean easy way to pull the lever off the cam.

I'd appreciate any hints before I do something stupid and just drive thecam out of the lever with a hammer and punch.

Thanks a lot,Fred Vachss

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Re: Split nut lever removal on 618 mk2Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.netDate: Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:17 pm ((PDT))

FredGet some automatic transmission fluid and acetone (paint stores have it),mix it 50-50 and soak the pin that holds the lever. It should be easy ifyou have the front apron off.

Have funGP

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Gib problems [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "John Wright" ov10facx~xxcox.netDate: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:03 am ((PDT))

The gib on the "tool post slide", at least that's what I think its called,will not stay put and when I tighten it down it binds in the last inch orso of travel. I have been working on it for a few hours and can't seem to

get it to work. Oh yea, model number 109-21270.

My suspicion is that the gib is not original. That the original had smallholes/indentations to allow the set screws to catch and hold it laterallywhile allowing for minor tension adjustments. If that's the case I mayreplace the steel that I have with a brass gib and drill someindentations. Brass on steel is much better than steel on steel anyway,

Anyone have any ideas or suggestions? Thanks, I have started a renovationso now's the time to make these kinds of improvements. I don't have amill, but I do know someone who might be able to make some parts for meout of brass.

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Re: Gib problemsPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:11 pm ((PDT))

I replaced the gibbs on mine with brass. It reduced the frictionconsiderably.

Also make brass clamps that hold the front of the carriage. I also made abrass clamp for the rear:http://shdesigns.org/Lathe/lathe2.shtml

It had two hold-down screws, one on each end that made it much easier toadjust.

The gibbs screws tend to work loose. I removed them and nicked the threadswith a chisel. A better option is to get longer screws and add lock nuts.

More tips on the 109 lathe users group:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AA_109_Lathe_Users_Group/

(this group is more for Atlas lathes.) There is a text file in the groupfiles area that has tips on improvements.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: Gib problemsPosted by: "jerdalx~xxsbcglobal.net"Date: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:14 pm ((PDT))

There are two issues.....

1) the gib not staying "put".

2) getting tight at one end of travel.

The 109 isn't the best machine to spend a lot of effort on, but it is themachine you have, and as a former 109.20630 owner, I can testify that theyDO "work"..... within their fairly significant limitations.

For item "1", all you really need to do is to have the screws "mark" thegib where they hit, possibly by coating the gib with magic marker, andthen tightening the screws on it with it back in place..... that shouldmark the spots. Then all you need to do is dimple the spots with a drillpress enough to give the end of the screws a place to enter and hold thegib from sliding out. The flatted recess is nice, but is not reallyrequired.

For item "2", the cause is probably wear, and the cure is re-scraping theunit. I wouldn't bother doing that for that machine, frankly. Probably ifyou dimple the gib so that you don't have to tighten down the gibs thattight, you will not have trouble with tightness at the end of travel.

JT

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Re: Gib problemsPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:34 pm ((PDT))

The "tool post slide" is perhaps more commonly called the "compound" orperhaps "compound slide" if you are only talking about the upper part.

I've never owned or even seen one of the 109-nnnnn machines. But thegeneral method of ensuring that gibs don't move independant of theassembly that they are installed in is to spot cut the outside surface ofthe gib with an end mill. If yours aren't, first paint and mark theoutside surface of the gib as mentioned in the previous msg. Use an endmill the same diameter as the gib screws. Then on a drill press orvertical milling machine table, clamp the gib at approximately the sameangle as it sits at in the compound (or carriage or whatever else it isto be installed in). Line up the milling cutter with each mark in themarking ink (magic marker) and cut down to a semicircle or slightly below.

When all of the marks are cut, reinstall the gib and tighten the gibscrews into the cutaway holes, adjust them for best fit, and lock thelock nuts.

I have no basis for an opinion between brass and steel for gibs exceptthat all of the gibs in my 1980 or 81 Atlas 3996 are all original and allstill good.

Robert D

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Re: Gib problemsPosted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8asDate: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:09 pm ((PDT))

look at the end of your gib screws ...if pointed, a drill bit may providethe best fit, if flat, cupped or a "dog" end, a recess wud be preferred...if not an option, a larger drill bit to allow the screws to be captured,or point up the screws......i dont see a necessity for replacing the gibs....cast iron sliding against steel are proper disssimilar sufraces....the steel counter shaft on my circa 1920 mill is still doing fine in castiron bearings ...1-1/4 shaft has 5 thou clearance, probably 2-3 thou whennew.

best wishesdoc

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yet another newcomer [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "feldfamx~xxsnet.net"Date: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:37 pm ((PDT))

Hi, My name is Glenn I am a newcomer to the group and just wanted to letyou all know a little bit about me. First of all I live in Connecticutand am a retired machinist (36 years). I love being retired but I alsolove to tinker with things to make them operate like new.

I recently purchased a craftsman model 101.07403 lathe (I got it reallycheap). It runs and has the original cast iron stand and some tooling camewith it. 3 jaw 4" chuck, 4 jaw 6" chuck a couple of face plates deadcenters, a full set of change gears, dozens of cutting tools, a bunch ofcollets (no draw bar), a tailstock and a couple boxes of small stuff Ihaven't even looked at yet.

The lathe is pretty old I haven't figured what year is. The machine hasBabbitt headstock bearings and will handle a 12 inch diameter (6 inchswing). The Compound and apron are cast as one piece, It has a 5/8 leadscrew, the ways are 3/8" thick, the bed full length is 42" about 24"between centers, has no quick change gearbox and the apron has noprovisions for a cross feed. The drive section has Back gearing and acraftsman 1/2 hp motor powers this beauty. The machine was covered withhardened oil and grease along with a few pounds of caked on sawdustcoating the entire machine.

I know that somewhere beneath that nasty exterior beats the heart ofclassic Iron. Over the next few weeks I intend to return this machine backinto great running condition and could use your advice on things.

Here are a few things I need to get started with:Locating an Operator's manual / tech manual (I do have a newer parts breakdown for this model but lots of things don't seem to match.)Matching original paint color recommendations. It is a very dark grey with almost a bluish tint. Would like to find aerosol type paint just to touch up the few bare spots. Mostly the original paint looks great.Any tips on rebabitting the headstockWhat year this machine was made? - Serial stamped on way is #31803 model101.07403

I don't have much cash to spend on this project but I do have the timeand desire. Any help / advice would be greatly appreciated.

Glenn

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Re: yet another newcomerPosted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Thu Aug 30, 2012 4:53 pm ((PDT))

I have a 101.07403. It has 3/4" feed screw, Timken head bearings andpower cross feed. Are you sure about the model number?

I wonder if the bed was taken from a later model. Craftsman had a habitof changing the model # when any of the parts changed. The parts listfor the '04703 is on the home page in the link on my sig. It does notshow a babbit head or the old-style carriage.

As to the date, the power feed model was introduced in 1939.

The "Atlas Lathe Operations Manual and Machinists Tables" is the bookthe came with the lathes. It is available from Clausing Industrial.

http://www.lathes.co.uk has the history of the Atlas and Craftsman modes(I suspect it is a 1936-1938 version.)

Post some pictures in the forum photo gallery. I'd be interested in whatyou have.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe:http://shdesigns.org/Craftsman12x36

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Re: yet another newcomerPosted by: "Doc" n8as1x~xxaol.com docn8asDate: Thu Aug 30, 2012 5:43 pm ((PDT))

unless the babbit bearings are shot, i see no need to replace...the onesin y 1895 14 in Reed are still doing fine & in HSM use........there isa shim pac when you remove the bearing caps to allow a tighter runningfit ...(abt one thou per inch)...the really weak point on the 5/8 l/screw

no power x feed lathe is the transverse gear case .....all later modelsdo not fit & no new parts available ..when wrecked the lathe is ususallyscrapped out ......i started to mill a gear case for one that i had, &decided the rest of the lathe was not worth it..... came out of agenerator repair shop where they never thot abt lubing the bed.....spindle t/stock & back gears are gone, but most of the rest is still inbarn rusting away

abt 14 years ago clausing sent me a zerox copy of a parts list ...USABLEBUT HARD TO READ..dont really think another copy wud be readable

best wishesdoc

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Re: yet another newcomerPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Thu Aug 30, 2012 9:39 pm ((PDT))

Glen,Welcome aboard. FWIW, although there are quite a few active BritishCommonwealth members on here, swing is most commonly given in the USpractice, diameter of largest part that will clear the bed. And we nolonger quibble over the spelling of vise/vice. :-)

As a couple of other members have already mentioned, your machine may havehad either the bed or the nameplate swapped. The 101.07403 (final ChangeGear model) has Timken bearings, a separate apron and saddle casting,power cross feed and a 3/4" diameter lead screw. Correlation betweenCraftsman Model Numbers and Catalog Numbers is difficult because from yearto year there were changes that resulted in Model Number changes withoutthe Catalog Number changing. So absent legible manuals, it is difficultto use the catalogs to ID a Model.

As best I have determined so far, from first to last of the Change Gearonly 12" models, there are twelve Model Numbers:101.07360 through 101.07363101.07380 through 101.07383101.07400 through 101.07403

And each model was made in 18", 24", 30" and 36" (i.e., the CatalogNumber, not the Model Number, defined the bed length)

I have parts lists on all 12 Models, but the drawings are so bad that Ihave yet to figure out at which Model Number the power cross feed appearedor the lead screw diameter changed. The only decently legible manuals thathave turned up so far are for 101.07403 and later. I haven't had time towork on the project lately but will bet back to it. I can say that itappears that 101.07403 was the first Model with the two-piece carriagecasting. That from the catalog changes from year to year, the first three

models of each group of four were run through quickly. And that during anygiven year, two and sometimes three Models were being sold concurrently.But I'm inclined to make a quick guess that with the 5/8" dia. lead screw,yours falls in the first group of four.

If you could post some photos to the group's Photos section, that wouldhelp. One difference that's obvious in the late 1930's and early 1940'scatalog photos is variations in gear or belt guard shape (or for thatmatter, presence).

Robert D.

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Re: yet another newcomerPosted by: "Raymond" jwreyx~xxusa.netDate: Fri Aug 31, 2012 9:03 am ((PDT))

Hello Glenn and welcome to the group!

You said your lathe has a single piece carriage/apron casting so I wouldventure to say the bed (or at least the name plate) has been changed.The 101.07403 had a two-piece carriage with a 3/4" leadscrew and powercrossfeed.

My 12x24 came to me with a single piece carriage/apron casting, a 5/8"lead screw, no power cross-feed, and a Zamak compound. Photos of thislathe can be found in the photos section of this forum:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/atlas_craftsman/photos/album/1494366852/pic/list

With considerable research I determined my lathe to be somewhere nearthe 101.0736x series. Only the change gear cover differs significantlyfrom the parts illustrated in the parts lists for that series. (BTW,parts diagrams for these models can still be viewed atwww.sears/partsdirect.com )

About Babbit headstocks and all carriage assemblies:There is a set of stacked shims under the bearing caps on the headstock.Each stacked shim is composed of five layers of .002 brass shim stocksoldered together with very soft solder. Adjustment of bearing-spindleclearance is done by removing the bearing cap, then removing one layerof shim at a time from one side of the bearing only, reinstaling thebearing cap and torquing the cap screws and checking for fit. There shouldbe zero looseness or play, up and down or sideways at each bearing, withslight drag when turning the spinde by hand. I initially thought I wasgoing to need to pour new babbit but found removal of one layer of shimonly from one side only of each front and rear bearing cap was sufficientto remove the play in the spindle. Checking the shims while out I found was the first owner to do this on this machine meaning there are 9 moreopportunities to remove a single layer at a time on each front and rearbearing caps. For a machine that was 74 years old when I acquired it in2009 I figure it still has more than 600 years life in the babbit

bearings!

The carriages on these lathes are similarly shimmed with five layers of.002 brass shim stock on each side of the ways. Peeling a single layerrequires seperating the layer to be removed wth sharp instrument such asan exacto knife or a sharp pointed tweezer.

Paint color: If all you want is to touch up and get a closest match seeif you can scratch off sizeable chip from the lathe and take it to alocal paint store, ask if they can mix a small can of oil-based paint tomnatch, then brush it on with a cheap artist's brush. Trying to match oldcolors from a rattle can generally does not provide good results.

General cleaning of crusty oil and dirt: I am happiest with K1 Kerosene.It cleans the crud very effectivy, does not harm the paint, and leavesa very thin coatng protecting the metal from exposure to atmosphericoxygen and humidity. Although it is about $10 a gallon at the hardwarestore, in my area it is available at selected HESS oil convienience storesfor about 1/3 that price. I bring my own approved container.

After restoration (cleaning, new paint and lubrication and adjustments)I "upgraded" it by modifying a used 3/4" leadscrew to fit the drive gearstud, added a two-piece carriage/apron assembly (with cross-feed drivegearing and half nuts assembly) to gain power crossfeed, replaced thecompound with a newer iron casting, and fabricated my own leadscrewsupport bearing from steel and inserted oilite bronze bearings. FinallyI replaced the two-arm change-gear "banjo" with a three-arm affair togain additional feed rate and thread ranges. Only the leadscrew requiredany machining (and some sort of replacement support bearing) to make itfit. Everything else was a direct fit! I am more than pleased with theend result!

I am a short distance east of Worscester Massachusetts and have acquireda growing supply of replacement parts I can trade or sell. Let me know ifyou need any parts or assistance.

Regards,raymond

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Re: Tailstock Alignment On 10F Lathe [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "Eggleston Lance" wheezer606x~xxverizon.netDate: Mon Sep 3, 2012 8:10 pm ((PDT))

On Sep 3, 2012, bigcheif4 wrote:> So, I'm beginning to think that my problem is more than likely myspindle bearings. My lathe uses the Timken type bearings. OK, testedthe tailstock ram today, and it shows dropping by .0015 at the tip.In other words, if I have the ram extended all the way out, it drops.0015 at the tip. <

1- Spindle bearings are not related.

2- If the TS ram dips 0.0015" when extended, that means the front of thetailstock sits lower than the back, due to wear.

3- the TS has two parts, upper and lower.

4- separate the parts, clean everything, reassemble with a 0.0015" shimbetween the two halves, along the front edge. I use old feeler gaugeblades for shims.

5- remeasure the ram, both in and extended. adjust shims as needed.

6- My TS clamp didn't hold very well. I removed the clamp and took acleaning cut off the clamping surfaces on the mill. Works MUCH better.The clamp was belled and only touching at the edges.

7- Use a washer and a spring between the TS and the clamp. When the nutis loosened, the spring pushes the clamp down, releases quicker.

8- I bought a flat ratchet wrench to keep permanently on the TS clamp nut.Works great. $6.

lance

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Re: Craftsman 109.21270 tail stock slidingPosted by: "none" garybauer46x~xxyahoo.comDate: Mon Sep 3, 2012 11:06 pm ((PDT))

After reading some elegant solutions to the rough sliding tailstock... Itook a close look at my Craftsman 12x36 bed underneath the tailstock whereit clamps. Mine is milled fully though it does have a bit of paint over-spray (my fault).

To smooth this area if needed I suggest using a large flat file from theend of the bed. Turn the bed up-side-down to ease the filing. The metalis simple gray cast iron, non hardened. A fresh file does help.

Once smoothed and lapped perhaps.. apply some oil. Check the clamp plateunder the tailstock for fit and finish. It may need a bit of filing/lapping also. The spring added to the tail stock clamp bolt/assembly isan excellent idea.

A break here while I filed and smoothed that portion on my 12x36 lathebed. Then added a bit of oil to the surfaces. There was quite a bit ofpaint build-up.

Gary in AZ

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Rack Locator Pin Removal Strategy [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:58 pm ((PDT))

<snip> I'm having difficulty removing the rack locator pins. Can yousuggest a good step by step strategy? It looks to me that the pins arebrazed onto the rack. Why would they do that? It is difficult to get apunch and hammer in between the ways to knock out the pins (attached tothe rack). We tried to pry the rack off/out using a knife as a wedge; itdidn't work. I think I'll start by cleaning off a bit of old oil andgrime.

Also, there are shims between the top off the rack and the ways. Why?I assume I should put them back in their same locations.

We took the screws out and the rack just just bends/flops. We supportedit with some wood blocks. It was really hard to get the screws back in.We had to push the rack up hard against the shims.

I found that the feed hiccups because of the damaged rack teeth. Wewant to cut threads so we need to repair the rack teeth.

Thanks

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Re: Rack Locator Pin Removal StrategyPosted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.netDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:26 pm ((PDT))

If you're talking about the rack that the traverse gear runs, it shouldbe easy to remove after the screws are out.

I had no problems getting it off. Just pry gently. If you need a new usedrack I have one I can send you. Let me know.

GP

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Re: Rack Locator Pin Removal StrategyPosted by: "Raymond" jwreyx~xxusa.netDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:36 pm ((PDT))

The rack locating pins are not brazed, soldered or welded into place, atleast not by the original manufacturer. The pins are tapered with threegrooves along their length. They are installed with a small mallet anddrift, essentially tapped in so as to grip the rack and bed tightlytogether.

For removal patience is key. Soak them with penatrating oil: WD40, KROIL,etc, for a couple of days before proceeding.

If you can't get in behind the pins with a small bolt rigged to act likea miniature jack to push them out from the back side, use a strong butvery thin pry bar to pry the rack from the bed. Patience here is key.You may need to use a small mallet to tap a thin blade between the rack

and the bed, a little at a time, until you gain enough of a gap to inserta slightly thicker pry bar. Again, patience is key, little by little,keeping all soaked with penetrating oil.

Because the pins are tapered, once they start to move they will move fastand easy. I have done this.

raymond

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Re: Rack Locator Pin Removal StrategyPosted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:36 pm ((PDT))

Thanks Raymond, I'll start with cleaning with kerosene. Then WD40;spraying the pins front and back and above the rack at the 2 pin points.

I don't yet see how to get to the inside of the forward pin which islocated under the head stock.

From what you say the tapered grooved pins have the small end on theinside of the ways. They must be removed from the inside out.

It almost sounds as if the pins are a use-once item and should bereplaced.

I like the idea of using a small bolt as a jack. I imagine I'd take my1/8" drift and set it in the hole and then place the bolt head againstit and the nut on the inside of the other side of the bed. Then I couldunscrew the bolt head driving the pin out. I expect that any size boltcould be used but the bigger the better. The length is important.

How did they make such a small tapered hole?

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Re: Rack Locator Pin Removal StrategyPosted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" wa5cabx~xxcs.comDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:50 pm ((PDT))

The hole isn't (wasn't originally) tapered. The pin is. But just slightly.Yes, it would be a good idea to procure new pins. Clausing should stillhave them.

See my earlier post about using two pieces of all-thread, two couplingnuts, two hex nuts and a piece of drill rod to make a remover.

It will help if you turn the machine over so that you can more easily getat the pin at the left end.

As much as I like WD-40 for drying out distributor caps and cleaning

wrinkle finish paint, it is only kerosene in aerosol form. Not a very goodpenetrant.

Robert D.

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Re: Rack Locator Pin Removal StrategyPosted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:31 pm ((PDT))

Dear Robert,I think I can find new 1/8" taper pins here in Thailand.I've searched on wa5cab and all-thread and not been able to identifythe post you refer to. Can you give me another clue how to find it?An 1/8" drift and a bolt won't do it huh?

I'm hesitant to turn the lathe over as I've leveled it with a borrowedmachinist's level. I can do that again if I need to.

What's a better penetrant than WD40? Sonax? ATF+acetone?

Thanks for your help! [:)]

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NOTE TO FILE: Of course we have covered penetrating products many timesbefore in our file Lubricants General. ATF (Automotive Transmission Fluid)plus acetone can work very well, as do some commercial penetrating oils.

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Adjusting the rack height. [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgte: Mon Sep 10, 2012 10:02 pm ((PDT))

We're getting ready to do some threading. We noticed that worn teeth onthe rack make the pinion gear stumble. This will make for imperfectthreads. We need to use this section of the rack because of the set up.

Also, we noticed that the saddle was sticking some near the headstock.When we scraped the ways to remove bumps, the sticking was reduced butstill present. We scraped more (aiming at removing bumps) and didn'tget much more improvement. We also noticed that the saddle also stucksome near the far end of the lathe. We cleaned and scraped the sidesand the bottoms of the ways. There was little change in the sticking.

In preparation to repair some teeth on the rack by brazing, I set Noy,our faithful village housewife, to cleaning the rack. In doing so shemade the suggestion that it is the pinion gear on the rack that iscausing the sticking. That is, the rack is worn more in the workingarea than towards the head stock or tail end. When the pinion gear getsin a section of non-worn rack teeth it puts a lot of pressure on thegear shaft and gears and makes the saddle "stick." We've also noticedthat there are shims above the rack. Is the rack really adjustable?

If so, can we raise the unworn parts and lower the worn sections? Iwouldn't expect the rack to be adjustable because it is pinned andscrewed. But who knows? Why would there be shims there?

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "Guenther Paul" paulguenterx~xxatt.netDate: Tue Sep 11, 2012 3:31 am ((PDT))

The rack has nothing to do with cutting threads. You may want to checkyour traverse gear, the housing may be cracked; that is a common problem.

GP

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "anthrhodesx~xxaol.com"Date: Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:11 pm ((PDT))

GP, I almost made the same remark. Later he said that, as the carriagetraverses while being driven by the leadscrew, the carriage gear hits abad spot in the rack and gets deflected which affects the screw being cut.It sounds as if he has it correct, that the rack needs to be repaired orthe problem moved to a location where it doesn't cause a problem for himin the section of traverse in which he's working.

Anthony Berkeley, Calif.

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com" wa5cabx~xxcs.comDate: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:22 am ((PDT))

If by "sticking" you mean that it takes more force (torque) to turn thehandwheel when the carriage is near the headstock than it does when thecarriage is near the middle of the bed, but it still moves smoothly, thisis probably caused by wear on the front and rear surfaces of the ways.

If you temporarily loosen the four carriage gib screws (on the back of thesaddle), movement should become easier. This is unfortunately normal for aflat bed lathe. Varnish from dried oil can build up on the surfaces overthe years but from what you have written, I think you have already removedthat. The only real cure is to have the bed re-ground. As that probablyisn't an option for you, you will just have to live with it.

As to the shims between the rack and the bottom of the front way,according to all of the parts lists for 10" and 12" that I have justlooked at, there should not be any. My machine, an Atlas Model 3996

(12X36) has none. As to why they are there, I don't really know. Perhapsthe rack was replaced many years ago with one that was not the sameheight.

In any case, the only shims that I find on any of the parts lists arethose under the front and rear of the saddle. The purpose of these is toadjust the engagement between the rack and the carriage driving pinion(gear). After you have successfully removed the rack and repaired thedamaged teeth, I would reattach it with the mystery shims back in theiroriginal positions and check that the rack is straight.

Then if necessary, adjust the pinion engagement by adding or subtractingsaddle shims. The parts lists all say that these shims are 0.002" and0.003" thick. And that the front and rear ones are not the same partnumbers. A few late Atlas parts lists show a third shim but do not showthe thickness. I suspect that it is fairly thick and was added to reducethe number of thin shims required. If you do have to make this adjustment,it will probably be to add shims. What I would do is to make two thickerones which will give you some of the 2 and 3 thousandth shims to "playwith".

Robert D

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "geoffrey_in_thailand" lovex~xxcvbt-web.orgDate: Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:54 pm ((PDT))

Well, it's interesting that I have the only Atlas 3991 12" lathe thathas thick shims on top of it's rack. I don't think that shimming therack unevenly would work to help gear engagement where it is skipping.The teeth need to mesh. I will try to take the shims out where it issticking and see if it makes a difference.

I'd like to try pushing the saddle by hand to see if the resistance/sticking is different then when moving it with the handwheel. I don'tthink it will make any difference because the rack and pinion are stillengaged. I measured the width across the ways in all the places I couldand it is even. I used a vernier calliper that measures to 0.02 mm.

Thanks for letting me know about the shims under the saddle. I might getto them eventually. How can I know how much to adjust? Is it a matter offeel?

Thanks very much.

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:53 pm ((PDT))

You have a much newer machine than I had assumed. Aside from the powercross-feed control and the rack shims, it's identical to my 3996. Do youhave the instruction manual? If not, check in the Files sections of both

lists. The equivalent Craftsman Model Number is 101.28970. And except forthe crossfeed control, the ones on 3996, 101.28990, and several otherswill work.

I would suggest that you remove the rack shims and properly shim thecarriage but if you do, the rack mounting screw holes and the taper pinwill not line up. And it wouldn't fix the rack anyway.

Once you get the pin out, would flipping the rack end for end temporarilyfix the bad teeth problem? You would have to drill a new hole in the rackfor the taper pin. Without the taper pin, there may be enough give in thescrew holes that the rack can move.

Did you loosen the gib screws and see whether that reduced the carriagesticking? I doubt you can measure the bed width accurately enough with avernier caliper to find spots that are high enough to cause a stickingproblem.

I'll just re-write what I wrote earlier about a pin jack.

The parts you would need to make the screw jack I suggested are a lengthof something like 3/8" or 1/2" (or metric near equivalent) diameterthreaded rod (all-thread), two regular hex nuts and two coupling nuts tofit. Coupling nuts are long hex nuts, typically between 3/4" and 1" longin this diameter range. Plus you will need a short piece of drill rod justslightly smaller than 3/16" diameter (so that it will not stick in thehole in the bed).

Cut the threaded rod into two pieces whose total length plus the length ofthe exposed drill rod (see next sentence) is say 1/4" to 1/2" less thanthe distance between the insides of the bed at the pin hole. Drill a holethe same diameter as the drill rod into one end of one of the short piecesof all-thread. Depth of hole should be such that enough of the drill rodis visible to just go completely through the side of the bed.

Run one of the hex nuts onto each piece of all-thread. Run one couplingnut all the way onto the all-thread without the drill rod.and run the hexnut down to but not touching it. Put some oil inside the second couplingnut and run it onto the plain end of the second all-thread a distance offour or five turns. Tighten (lock) the hex nut securely against it. Runthe locked coupling nut all the way onto the first all-thread.

When you put the jack between the ways, put the drill rod into the taperpin hole and finger tighten the loose coupling nut against the back ofthe bed. Lock it with the hex nut. Use one open end wrench to hold thecoupling nut at the back of the bed and a second one to turn the othercoupling nut.

Actually, if you have a pair of the correct size ratcheting box endwrenches, or one fixed and one ratcheting, those would be easier to useup under the headstock but you will need to put them on the jack beforemounting the jack between the ways.

Gear mesh instructions are given in the manual. They are actually writtenfor the gears on the left end of the headstock, but are perfectlyapplicable to the carriage drive gear.

Robert D.

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Re: Adjusting the rack height.Posted by: "wa5cabx~xxcs.com"Date: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:56 pm ((PDT))

In a message dated 09/14/2012, lovex~xxcvbt-web.org writes:> So, I went to an auto parts store and described what I needed to make apin jack. He pulled out a clutch adjustment rod from an Isuzu truck. Itlooks like it will fit the bill. I can't find any drill rod so I'm goingto waste a drill. I thought that the pins were an 1/8 but 3/32 soundsbetter. I'd like to know why I might have to redrill the pin holes. Isn'tthe drilling pattern symetrical? I am going to try to swap ends of therack. <

I wouldn't have gone to an auto parts store as they generally only havespecific dedicated pieces for specific vehicles. But if what you foundwill work, hopefully you'll only need it once!!!

I think that the first time I wrote the screed I mentioned cutting off adrill bit but forgot to do so the second time.

According to the parts lists and drawings for the late model machines thetaper pin is a 3/16" x 5/8". And there is only one at the headstock end.That matches my 3996 and is why I made the comment about drilling the newhole. From earlier comments, earlier model machines had a pin at both endsof the rack (and I don't see any logical reason for that). If yours doesand if the drill pattern is symmetrical (I obviously don't have an exampleto look at), then you won't have to drill a new pin hole. But if thescrews are flat head, as they are on my machine, then you will still haveto countersink the holes on the (currently) back side of the rack.

You never did describe where the shims were. So I assumed that they werefull length. If they aren't, then you may be able to remove them and stillget the screws to fit.

Robert D.

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Ways wearing? [atlas_craftsman]Posted by: "brewerpaul" brewerpaulx~xxaol.comDate: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:00 pm ((PDT))

Might as well ask another question, although I'm not sure I want theanswer :-{

I think the ways on my 101, 6" lathe must be wearing down a bit. Mycarriage cranks nice and easily in the middle of its travel, but over atthe far right it's pretty snug. Left is OK too.

The ways on this lathe are flat. Assuming they are worn, how can I getthem re-ground? How expensive is this likely to be? So far it's not aproblem -- my machining is fine, so I'll probably sit tight until itbecomes an issue, but I'd like to plan ahead. Thanks.

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Re: Ways wearing?Posted by: "Scott Henion" shenionx~xxshdesigns.orgDate: Sat Sep 29, 2012 6:14 pm ((PDT))

You might try cleaning the underside of the ways. Mine was real tightout of the center. I found there was lots of dried oil under the ways.

I used a razor blade pulled along the underside to scrape the crud off.It was noticeably better. Brake cleaner took the rest off.

Scott G. HenionCraftsman 12x36 lathe: