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POLLY BOUDREAUX 3/5/2008

JOHNS, PENDLETON & ASSOCIATES 800 562-1285

Page 1

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

EASTERN DISTRICT OF LOUISIANA

IN RE: KATRINA CANAL BREACHES CIVIL ACTION

CONSOLIDATED LITIGATION

NO. 06-2268

"K" (2)

PERTAINS TO: ROBINSON JUDGE DUVAL

MAG. WILKINSON

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF

POLLY CAMPBELL BOUDREAUX,

4212 Florida Avenue, Meraux, Louisiana 70075,

taken in the offices of Andry Law Firm, 610

Baronne Street, New Orleans, Louisiana 70113,

on Wednesday, March 5, 2008.

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2 (Pages 2 to 5)

Page 2

1 APPEARANCES:

2

3

4 ANDRY LAW FIRM

5 (BY: JONATHAN B. ANDRY, ESQ.)

6 610 Baronne Street

7 New Orleans, Louisiana 70113

8 ATTORNEY FOR THE PLAINTIFFS

9

10

11 ELWOOD STEVENS LAW OFFICE

12 (BY: ELWOOD C. STEVENS, JR., ESQ.)

13 1205 Victor II Boulevard

14 Morgan City, Louisiana 70380

15 ATTORNEY FOR THE PLAINTIFFS

16 (NOT PRESENT)

17

18

19 STONE PIGMAN WALTHER WITTMANN

20 (BY: CARMELITE BERTAUT, ESQ.21 AGNIESZKA MCPEAK ESQ.)

22 546 Carondelet Street

23 New Orleans, Louisiana 70130-3588

24 ATTORNEYS FOR WASHINGTON GROUP

25 INTERNATIONAL, INC.

Page 3

1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:

2

3 UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE

4 (BY: KEITH LITTLE ESQ.

5 JESSICA SULLIVAN, ESQ.)

6 Post Office Box 888

7 Benjamin Franklin Station

8 Washington, D.C. 20004

9 ATTORNEY FOR UNITED STATES OF

10 AMERICA

11

12

13 BURGLASS & TANKERSLEY

14 (BY: KEA SHERMAN, ESQ.)

15 5213 Airline Drive

16 Metairie, Louisiana 70001

17 ATTORNEYS FOR JEFFERSON PARISH

1819

20

21 CHAFFE, MCCALL LLP

22 (BY: TOM FORBES, ESQ.)

23 2300 Energy Center

24 New Orleans, Louisiana 70163

25 ATTORNEYS FOR LAFARGE NORTH AMERICA

Page 4

1

2 APPEARANCES CONTINUED:

3

4

5 LABORDE & NEUNER

6 (BY: GREG KOURY, ESQ.)

7 One Petroleum Center

8 1001 West Pinhook Road

9 Suite 200

10 Lafayette, Louisiana 70505-2828

11 ATTORNEYS FOR ORLEANS LEVEE DISTRICT

12

13

14 ALSO APPEARING AS ALSO PRESENT:

15 JOSEPH E. BENDER, ESQ. (LBLD)

16

17

18

19

20 REPORTED BY: ROGER D. JOHNS, RMR, CRR, CSR21 Certified Court Reporter,

22 State of Louisiana

23

24

25

Page 5

1 S T I P U L A T I O N

2

3 It is stipulated and agreed by and between4 counsel for the parties hereto5 that the deposition of the aforementioned

6 witness is hereby being taken under the

7 Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, for all

8 purposes, in accordance with law;9 That the formalities of reading and

10 signing are specifically not waived;

11 That the formalities of certification and

12 filing are specifically waived;

13 That all objections, save those as to the14 form of the question and the responsiveness of15 the answer, are hereby reserved until such

16 time as this deposition, or any part thereof,

17 may be used or sought to be used in evidence.

1819 * * * *20

21 ROGER D. JOHNS, RDR, CRR, Certified Court

22 Reporter for the State of Louisiana,

23 officiated in administering the oath to the24 witness.25

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3 (Pages 6 to 9)

Page 6

1 I N D E X

2

3 PAGE

4 Exhibit 1.................................. 61

5 Exhibit Number 2........................... 78

6 Exhibit 3.................................. 81

7 Exhibit 4.................................. 89

8 Exhibit 5.................................. 91

9 Exhibit Number 7.......................... 115

10 6......................................... 115

11

12

13

14

15

16

17 EXAMINATION BY BY MR. ANDRY:................ 7

18 EXAMINATION BY MR. LITTLE:................ 105

19 EXAMINATION BY MR. FORBES:................ 116

20 EXAMINATION BY MS. MCPEAK:................ 13921 EXAMINATION BY MR. FORBES:................ 156

22

23

24

25

Page 7

1 VIDEO OPERATOR:

2 We're now on the record. It is

3 3:19, March 5th, 2008. Would the

4 Court Reporter now please swear in the

5 witness.

6 POLLY CAMPBELL BOUDREAUX,

7 4212 Florida Avenue, Meraux, Louisiana 70075,

8 after being duly sworn, did testify as

9 follows:

10 EXAMINATION BY MR. ANDRY:

11 Q. Mrs. Boudreaux, thanks for coming

12 down to give your deposition. I'm Jonathan

13 Andry and, as you know , I represent Norman

14 Robinson and the Plaint iffs in the case of

15 Norman Robinson versus the United States,

16 which deals w ith -- it's a Federal tort claim

17 against the government for negligence

18 associated w ith the Mississippi River Gulf19 Outlet.

20 Have you ever been deposed

21 before?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. So you understand that in a

24 deposition I'll ask you the questions, I am

25 not trying to trick you or anything, --

Page 8

1 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively).

2 Q. -- I am just trying to get

3 information. I'll ask you the question and

4 then you respond with a verbal answer or a

5 verbal response so that the Court Reporter can

6 take that down.

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And that you're also being

9 videotaped.

10 A. Okay.

11 Q. And I think beamed on the Internet,

12 too.

13 A. Okay.

14 Q. But nonetheless, you just have to

15 give a verbal response and if you don't

16 understand the question, please ask me and I

17 will repeat it.

18 A. Okay.

19 Q. But if you answer, I will interpret

20 that that you understood the question and21 answered it to the best of your ability.

22 A. Okay.

23 Q. Could you please provide us your

24 educational background?

25 A. I hold a Master's degree in

Page 9

1 education administration from UNO;

2 undergraduate degree from Louisiana College,

3 Bachelor of Arts in French and biology.

4 Q. And when did you receive your

5 Master's degree from UNO?

6 A. 1997. Actually, 1994. I need to

7 say it right. The year my daughter was born.

8 Exactly a month after she was born.

9 Q. Where are you from originally?

10 A. Born in Denver, Colorado, but moved

11 very soon to Belle Chasse. Lived 12 years in

12 Belle Chasse and then my father took a

13 position overseas and we spent time in Saudi

14 Arabia and then in Brussels, Belgium, and then

15 came back here to go to college; and from

16 college went straight to work in St. Bernard

17 Parish right out of college.

18 Q. So would it be fair to say that you19 worked in St. Bernard Parish from

20 approximately '94 to 1997 -- I mean '94

21 through today? Excuse me.

22 A. Actually from 1984. I graduated in

23 1983 with my Bachelor's degree, so I began

24 working right after that.

25 Q. And where did you work after that?

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4 (Pages 10 to 13)

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1 A. St. Bernard High School for 14 and a

2 half years. And then I moved to the central

3 office and worked there for six and a half.

4 Retired from the School Board office in 199-

5 -- I have to really think. In 19- -- 2003

6 and took the position as Clerk of Council and

7 was serving there at the time of Katrina and I

8 served there until just this past fall when I

9 went back into the school system to regain a

10 little of my sanity.

11 Q. And when you were Clerk of Council,

12 could you describe what that job entails?

13 A. It's a very large job. It requires

14 the management of the affairs of the seven

15 elected officials who serve St. Bernard Parish

16 as government leaders, and my position was

17 all-encompassing, from writing legislation to

18 making sure legislation was posted

19 appropriately, the correct amount of time,

20 advertised, given public hearing notices,21 putting agendas together, coordinating daily

22 schedules, committee meetings; a very, very

23 large job.

24 Q. And you held that job from 2000 to

25 200- --

Page 11

1 A. 2003. And I am not a really good

2 number -- number person.

3 Q. Just approximate.

4 A. I can do math, but I have to go

5 backwards and try to remember. My -- My --

6 2003, we built a community playground and by

7 that fall I was courted very heavily to assume

8 the position of Clerk of Council. Myra

9 Kattengell who had been there for 12 years was

10 retiring due to medical issues and so they --

11 they came looking for me to come fill that

12 position. So I had been in right at the end

13 of 2003 as the Clerk of Council. So still

14 kind of a baby when the hurricane hit,

15 government experience-wise.

16 Q. So you were the Clerk of Council

17 from the fall of '03 --

18 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively), until just19 this past fall, which is '07.

20 Q. Through the fall of '07?


22 Q. Who was the Parish President at the

23 time?

24 A. In '03 it would have been Charlie

25 Ponstein and then in '04 when I was sworn in,

Page 12

1 so was a whole slew of new Council members and

2 Parish President, Junior Rodriguez.

3 Q. So when you were sworn in, Junior

4 was the Parish President. And then who were

5 the Councilmen?

6 A. Council members at that time sworn

7 in in '04 would have been Mark Madary, Judy

8 Hoffmeister, Kenny Henderson, Craig Tafaro,

9 Rickey Mellerine, Joey DiFatta, Lynn Dean.

10 There were seven. Five districts and then two

11 at-large positions.

12 Q. Did any of those Council members, or

13 did they serve from '03, excuse me, from '04

14 through the time of Hurricane Katrina?

15 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively). Yes, that

16 would have been the sitting Council. We were

17 all sworn in at the same time in '04.

18 Q. And as the Clerk of Council, did you

19 have any job dealings with regard to the

20 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet?21 A. I had been through a number of

22 meetings that included discussion about the

23 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet. I had been

24 asked to pull legislation that had been

25 enacted in the years prior to my taking that

Page 13

1 position, the years since the Council form of

2 government which began in 1992, and had access

3 to a great number of files in my office that I

4 inherited by virtue of my position, quite a

5 number of very large folders full of

6 information about the MRGO and committee

7 meetings that had been held in years past. So

8 I had a working knowledge of the issues of the

9 MRGO by virtue of my position.

10 Q. And what was the working knowledge

11 that you possessed pertaining to the

12 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet by virtue of

13 your position?

14 A. My -- My understanding of it grew

15 tremendously in the time that I became Clerk

16 of Council. Prior to that, I had worked in

17 St. Bernard for all of my professional life

18 and had heard the cries against the MRGO; knew19 several of the community activists who had

20 spoken against it. Had even had one of them

21 come speak to my biology class at St. Bernard

22 High School, but didn't really understand the

23 full impact of the -- of the body itself, the

24 body of water itself; had not actually ever

25 been in it and didn't even realize as I went

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5 (Pages 14 to 17)

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1 over the green bridge, which is no longer

2 green, but we all still call it the green

3 bridge, that that's where it was, that that

4 was the MRGO I was going over. And know that

5 for many folks, kids even, that you heard

6 about it, but you really had no clue where it

7 was. So when I took the position, I became

8 much more aware because of all of the interest

9 and the outcries against it, and actually took

10 my first trip in the MRGO shortly after taking

11 the position of Clerk of Council. Somebody

12 felt I needed to see it if I was going to be

13 in meetings about it. I needed to understand

14 it.

15 Q. Was that Junior?

16 A. That took me in it?

17 Q. Yes.

18 A. No, actually it wasn't. It was one

19 of my playground construction guys that says,

20 "You're not going to understand any of this21 stuff unless you see it" and took me in a boat

22 to see it, and I was in absolute awe at the

23 size of it. I don't -- Literally on our back

24 door, doorsteps, and I think most of us just

25 lived our lives completely oblivious of how

Page 15

1 close proximity it was to our homes.

2 Q. Let me go back a little bit. The

3 cries against the Mississippi River Gulf

4 Outlet you mentioned by community activists,

5 who w ere the community activists that cried

6 out against the M ississippi River Gulf Outlet?

7 A. The names that I remember and recall

8 very consistently were Don Duplantier, who was

9 a fellow biologist, naturalist. Pete Savoye,

10 Mr. Dan Arceneaux. Those are three, the three

11 big names that I really remember. I know Mr.

12 Rodriguez was in that number as well. Prior

13 to his position as Parish President, he had

14 been part of that cry against it.

15 Q. What were the cries against it that

16 you heard from the comm unity activists?

17 A. They -- They seemed to always be --

18 I don't know that "grounded" is the word or19 "based in". The fact that the MRGO had been

20 sold as a bill of goods, if you please, to the

21 parish of St. Bernard as a means of job --

22 increase in jobs for St. Bernard Parish. You

23 know, if we build this, this shortcut, we

24 build this waterway, that there will be a

25 great increase in the number of jobs that can

Page 16

1 be provided to St. Bernard citizens, and the

2 realization in 2002, 2003, 2004 was in fact

3 that it had never provided any substantial

4 amount of jobs to the parish. That it had

5 continued to grow in size, had continued to be

6 dredged to depths that Mr. Dan Arceneaux was

7 constantly coming before the Council to speak

8 against the authorized depths. What depths

9 were actually needed and that it was a major

10 cause of erosion of land for St. Bernard

11 Parish marsh, protective marsh for the parish.

12 Q. Did you ever hear that F. Edward

13 Hebert used to say that the Gulf Outlet was

14 going to turn St. Bernard into the industrial

15 frontier of the Gulf South?

16 A. Yes. Yes. I think that that's in

17 print as well and I would assume in several of

18 the files that currently reside in the Council

19 -- Council office and Council possession.

20 I'm sure that you can find that. Yes.21 Q. And what dealings did you have with

22 the Gulf Outlet as Clerk of Council?

23 A. I am not sure.

24 Q. As far as did you -- what matters

25 came before the Council when you w ere the

Page 17

1 Clerk of Council pertaining to the Gulf

2 Outlet, if any?

3 A. Let's see if I can remember from

4 early -- early on in my young government

5 career. There -- I remember an issue very

6 early on, and I want to say that it was on the

7 Gulf Outlet, Mr. Dan Arceneaux came asking for

8 speed limits to be set so that there were not

9 -- and by not just the large ships, but any

10 kind of vessel that would cause additional

11 erosion, and I believe we passed that at some

12 point, something requesting that speed limits

13 be enforced along the MRGO if I am remembering

14 correctly.

15 Q. So that was a resolution as passed

16 by the Council to impose speed l imits on the

17 Gulf Outlet so as to reduce wave wash?

18 A. Reduce wave action and erosion.19 Yes. There were several pieces of legislation

20 that called for the immediate closure of the

21 MRGO. We had a number of very long debates

22 about exactly what it meant to close the

23 MRGO. Was it reducing it to pleasure traffic

24 or fishing traffic as opposed to closing it

25 completely for any vessels to come up the

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6 (Pages 18 to 21)

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1 MRGO. Did it mean fill in the whole thing in

2 or just blocking it off and allowing it to

3 fill in on its own. We had hours and hours of

4 discussion about that among Council members

5 prior to the passage of a, you know, piece of

6 legislation that would say "We wholeheartedly

7 support the closure of the MRGO." There were

8 several pieces passed during -- during that

9 tenure of Council.

10 Q. And did the Council pass resolutions

11 during your tenure as Clerk of Council urg ing

12 the closure of the Gulf Outlet because it was

13 a conduit for storm surge which w ould flood

14 St. Bernard Parish or cause damage to St.

15 Bernard Parish?

16 A. I don't remember that they were

17 specifically geared to being a flood conduit.

18 I know it spoke specifically of the great

19 destruction of coastal land, marsh land that

20 had taken place over the years. I do know21 that just prior to -- actually just prior to

22 Hurricane Katrina we had -- we had been

23 through a few mock experiences. LSU came in,

24 and another -- another firm had come in, and

25 we had gone through a workshop as well with

Page 19

1 simulations of what would happen to the New

2 Orleans area were there to be a hurricane that

3 came, you know, up that direction. I have --

4 Q. Is that the Hurricane Pam exercise?

5 A. I am not sure if it was Pam or -- It

6 may have been -- It may have been a spin-off

7 from Pam; then they began to come down

8 locally, you know, to local groups. My most

9 vivid memory is -- was actually a presentation

10 that -- and I should remember his name,

11 because he's been a big name since the

12 hurricane. The LSU professor who, he spoke to

13 the St. Bernard Parish Chamber of Commence

14 just before the hurricane, just within the

15 last couple of months before the hurricane and

16 showed these models and kept showing the

17 models, you know, what would happen, what

18 would happen. And when it was over, having a19 science background and being a little more

20 inquisitive than I guess most people about

21 science issues and biology issues, it had a

22 great rendering of what New Orleans was going

23 to face, but somehow the map never did show

24 what St. Bernard was going to endure. And I

25 raised my hand and asked that question,

Page 20

1 "You're showing us what's going to happen to

2 New Orleans, but we're the St. Bernard Chamber

3 of Commerce. What's going to happen to St.

4 Bernard?" And he admitted then that there

5 were severe issues for St. Bernard and that

6 had just not been a part of their modeling.

7 That they hadn't shown it, I guess fleshed it

8 all the way out for St. Bernard, and that they

9 were working on that part of it and would be

10 happy to come back to show us that. And he

11 didn't have to come back, because we got to

12 experience it all by ourselves in person.

13 Q. Was that Professor Mashriky?

14 A. Mashriky, yes. Yes.

15 Q. And did you, in your capacity as

16 Clerk of Council, have any dealings w ith the

17 Hurricane Pam exercise, which w as the

18 simulated hurricane that I think they did in

19 April or -- somew here in '04, Apri l to

20 November of '04?21 A. We had -- I do remember going

22 through activities led by our OEP director and

23 I guess the -- it was mostly OEP director,

24 Larry Incajolia (phonetics) and a little bit

25 by Tommy Stone, just behind the Council

Page 21

1 chambers. We went through some exercises and

2 I was asked to be the represent- -- the

3 Council representative at, you know, at that

4 -- those particular exercises, and it's very

5 possible that the name was Pam. I remember

6 the name, the Hurricane Pam exercises, but I

7 was thinking that ours was called something

8 else. But --

9 Q. Were you aware or did you ever hear

10 of the term "The Mississippi River Gulf Outlet

11 Task Force"?

12 A. That was not an active body that I

13 know when -- when I took the position. I

14 didn't attend any of those particular

15 meetings. I know that that task force had

16 been in existence, but I would not be able to

17 accurately tell you. It was not an ongoing

18 committee when I took office that I remember.19 Q. Do you know what happened to the

20 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet Task Force?

21 A. Do I know what happened? No. I

22 could -- I could venture a guess based on some

23 of the committees that we had enacted while I

24 was there and people just get busy and tied up

25 and, you know, kind of fizzles out. I am not

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7 (Pages 22 to 25)

Page 22

1 sure. I am not remembering that particular

2 committee.

3 Q. Would it be fair to say that during

4 your tenure as Clerk of Council the closure of

5 the Mississippi Gulf Outlet was a m ajor

6 concern of the Council m embers?

7 A. Yes. Yes. In fact, we had -- and I

8 have the documentation and the paperwork. Not

9 long after I took office, there was a deal

10 fashioned between the Port of New Orleans and

11 the Parish President to -- some agreement

12 concerning the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet.

13 And if you'll let me go through my mind and

14 remember. It is a very full mind. This is a

15 definite Katrina effect, is that you just --

16 It's a massive filing cabinet now it feels

17 like to go through. Can you tell me the port

18 -- the board?

19 Q. Lagrange.

20 A. Lagrange.21 Q. It's about Lagrange and Junior.

22 We're talking about a deal w ith Lagrange and

23 Junior.

24 A. Yes. And that --

25 Q. Mr. Rodriguez.

Page 23

1 A. Yes. That would have been -- If I

2 had my records, I could flip right to it.

3 Q. Say right after the storm?

4 A. Right after. And they fashioned a

5 letter of language that didn't necessarily

6 support what Council members believed to be

7 the closure, the true closure of the MRGO. It

8 seemed to be more a deal that would protect

9 the financial interest of the port as opposed

10 to the complete concern of the safety and

11 welfare of St. Bernard Parish. It caused a

12 major outcry, a major rift among Council

13 members and the Parish President, and was not

14 supported by the Council. It resulted in

15 another piece of legislation that spoke

16 against any form of leaving the MRGO open.

17 And I do recall that very vividly there were a

18 lot of not nice words and very heated19 argument, not just by the government

20 officials, but by those who -- those from the

21 public who had been able to make their way

22 back to St. Bernard who were just outraged

23 that anybody could -- could believe it needed

24 to still be here, you know. That there was

25 any way to justify it financially.

Page 24

1 Q. I remember those meetings.

2 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively). That tent

3 is still standing.

4 Q. I participated in a bunch of them.

5 Tell me about your trip on the

6 Gulf Outlet that you told us about earlier.

7 A. I will tell you that the minute we

8 -- the boat got into the Gulf Outlet, we went

9 through the locks. I guess -- I am not even

10 going to say what, but I will say it wrong.

11 It wasn't down at Violet, --

12 Q. Bayou Bienvenue locks.

13 A. We went out the Bayou Bienvenue --

14 Q. Bienvenue.

15 A. -- locks first and then Violet

16 Canal. I think we came back through those.

17 And I have since been on it several times

18 since the hurricane with Mr. Rodriguez and the

19 Corps of Engineers and, you know,

20 politicians. I have been out a few times21 now. We actually got stuck in it because they

22 had to close the locks and so we had to be

23 picked up along the levee and brought back to

24 the marina. But my -- my initial impression

25 when we left those locks and my friend said to

Page 25

1 me, "You're now in the MRGO," I really -- my2 picture of it had been some small channel. I3 mean, I grew up in -- or graduated from high4 school in Belgium and canals there, you know,5 are rather small. It's only wide enough for a6 barge to go in it, and I think that's what my7 picture was, was just this little, you know,8 barge kind of canal. And we got into that9 thing and it is absolutely massive. I mean,

10 you look at it and think this is not a canal.11 This is not even a river. It is huge, you12 know. Obviously it has eaten and eaten and13 eaten away at the land in order to be so, you14 know, so big. And I remember -- I remember15 being upset at that point, thinking all of16 those years I taught biology at St. Bernard17 High School and I could have been bringing

18 kids -- I brought them all over to field19 trips, south Louisiana. Never once brought20 them on a field trip in the MRGO in St.21 Bernard Parish, and I certainly could have.22 There was nothing that limited me from doing23 that. But I think we had grown so accustomed24 to it being there that you just took for25 granted where it was and what it meant, and

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8 (Pages 26 to 29)

Page 26

1 had more -- more people been brought in a boat

2 in the middle of it, there would have been a

3 larger public outcry that this is crazy.

4 Q. Let me ask you, tell me about the

5 trips that you took on the Mississippi River

6 Gulf Outlet with Corps personnel.

7 A. Those were mostly to show off the

8 new levees that had been repaired and the

9 areas where the -- around the locks where the

10 water had eaten during the hurricane, had

11 breached those -- the big support bulwarks I

12 guess on either side of the locks. The water

13 had run and really damaged the levees there.

14 So we were -- we were there to see the new

15 work and, you know, see the glory of repair.

16 Q. But would it be fair to say that all

17 of the trips with the Corps personnel w ere

18 post Hurricane Katrina?

19 A. Mine? Yes. I would have to very

20 carefully remember and I don't have any of --21 When you leave a government position, you

22 leave all of your stuff. So I would need to

23 reflect on whether or not we had taken a trip

24 prior to -- prior to Katrina. And I want to

25 say we did, because I remember there being two

Page 27

1 boats and Council being upset because they

2 didn't get on the first boat. It's crazy how

3 you remember things based on the political

4 underpinnings at the times at the time, and

5 that's what I am trying to remember when. I

6 think that was -- that was prior to the

7 hurricane. It was a -- It was kind of a

8 pleasant trip, if I remember, you know, like

9 we're going to see, we're going to look, and

10 not -- not a let's go look at repair, damage

11 after, is my memory. But I would -- I would

12 need to look through some things to refresh

13 that.

14 Q. From the time you took office as

15 Clerk of Council in '03 to before Hurricane

16 Katrina, were there ever any Corps personnel

17 that would come to the Council and talk about

18 the closure of the Mississippi River Gulf19 Outlet?

20 A. Nothing with any frequency. Nothing

21 that would make me -- Maybe one meeting out of

22 any of the ones -- That was always an issue,

23 that they were very difficult to communicate

24 with. And we would send, you know, scathing

25 resolutions or very strong language

Page 28

1 resolutions and get very little to no response

2 from anyone. And I remember not even knowing

3 if I was sending it to the right person. Who

4 am I supposed to send it to? Nobody's given

5 me a, you know, a direct contact that I can

6 send it to, that this -- you know, this very

7 strong resolution about closure needs to go to

8 the Corps of Engineers and they're a massive

9 business. Who did do you send it to?

10 Q. Would the letters and correspondence

11 that was sent -- And I take it that you sent

12 that letter as Clerk of Council, it would hav e

13 been on behalf of the St. Bernard Par ish as a

14 legislative body; is that correct?

15 A. Absolutely. Yes. Yes. It would

16 have been a copy of -- you know, "Forwarded is

17 a copy of the resolution passed by the St.

18 Bernard Parish Council on such and such a date

19 requesting a complete closure of the MRGO" and

20 then attached would be the actual resolution21 itself, an official copy of that resolution

22 would go in to -- to the Corps.

23 Q. Did you ever come across or see any

24 responses by the Corps of Engineers to the

25 scathing resolutions that you forwarded to the

Page 29

1 Corps on behalf of the St. Bernard Parish

2 Council?

3 A. No, nothing that would have

4 addressed the nature of -- of the content of

5 the resolution. There may have been "Thank

6 you, he have received -- you know, it's

7 forwarded here." We would also send it -- I

8 was always directed to send those to our

9 legislators as well, and so they would get a

10 copy and sometimes I would get a response back

11 from Mary Landrieu's office saying they had

12 been noted and received and "Thank you for

13 your continued interest in this issue" kind of

14 correspondence.

15 Q. Did the Council or did you on behalf

16 of the Council send correspondence to any of

17 the Louisiana Congressional delegation

18 regarding closure of the Mississip pi River19 Gulf Outlet prior to Katrina ?

20 A. Yes. They would have been cc'd on

21 the correspondence to the Corps is typically

22 what would happen. It would go to each of

23 those offices as well as Senator Landrieu and

24 Senator Vitter at the time.

25 Q. And other than a cursory response of

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9 (Pages 30 to 33)

Page 30

1 "Thanks for your interest ", did you receive

2 any, as the Council, did the Council receive

3 any formal response dealing with those

4 resolutions on closure of the Gulf Outlet tha t

5 was a substantive response?

6 A. I do remember, after the hurricane,

7 receiving them from, especially from Senator

8 Landrieu's office. Prior to the hurricane we

9 may have had one from her that directly spoke

10 to that issue and this is a concern to me, you

11 know, a little bit more than just the "Thank

12 you for your" -- "Thank you for your piece of

13 paper" kind of response. And those would --

14 those responses would be on file now, because

15 I didn't lose any of my records. They would

16 still be in the MRGO files in my office -- not

17 my office any more. My used-to-be office.

18 They would still be there. So that's

19 certainly something that, you know, could be

20 looked at, could be researched.21 Q. But tel l me what type of documents

22 -- Was one of your job duties as Clerk of the

23 Council to maintain the documents and

24 correspondence historically for the

25 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet or pertaining to

Page 31

1 the Mississippi River Gulf Outlet?

2 A. Absolutely. Three or four large --

3 large bulging files that I would not take a

4 shred of paper out of. Only went through it

5 to find -- At one point, and I -- Again, I

6 will apologize I don't remember that it was

7 just prior to the hurricane or right after. I

8 was asked to look back in those files to find

9 every -- every piece of legislation. It was

10 unfortunately not -- had not been a practice

11 before I came of putting all -- putting

12 everything on --

13 Q. Disk?

14 A. In searchable format, right, that

15 you could just go back in and type "MRGO" and

16 see how many times it had been brought up. So

17 I physically had to go through the files and

18 pull anything that I saw. And I really think19 that was just prior to the hurricane. Mr. Dan

20 Arceneaux wanted it to bring to one of the

21 meetings he was going to, either a PACE

22 meeting or a Corps meeting that he was

23 attending. He attended them rather regularly

24 and, you know, always spoke out in behalf of

25 St. Bernard.

Page 32

1 Q. What is a PACE meeting?

2 A. Parishes Against Coastal Erosion.

3 Q. Okay. And go ahead wit h your

4 answer. I'm sorry.

5 A. That's okay. My memory, without

6 looking at anything, is that it was just prior

7 to the hurricane that I pulled how many times

8 the Council, since the Council form of

9 government, had made some kind of request or

10 demand concerning the MRGO.

11 Q. Are those documents still in the

12 files of the St. Bernard Parish Council?

13 A. When I left them, yes. I can't

14 vouch for them since last fall, but they

15 should -- they should all be there, yes.

16 Q. And are you aware of any other

17 documents pertainin g to the history of the

18 Mississippi River Gulf Outlet that would have

19 been maintained by St. Bernard Parish?

20 A. There were -- There were -- There21 were several boxes of old files upstairs on

22 the third floor that I recall the name being

23 written on and it may have been "Task Force".

24 It was some committee that was -- that was

25 going on years ago that I don't have any

Page 33

1 personal recollection of. I just remember

2 that the boxes were there. And there may have

3 been down -- downstairs, not far from my

4 office in the government building, there was

5 -- there was a vault where a lot of the

6 Council records were kept. And that would

7 have included committee minutes and tapes from

8 many years past. And while I was able to save

9 some of those the day before -- It was on

10 Saturday, pulled up a good deal of those, I

11 did not take everything and at that time took

12 things that I had found to be very helpful or

13 very important and we were not able to bring

14 it all up. So there may have been -- there

15 may have been a couple of boxes down in that

16 vault, but I don't -- I don't know how much.

17 That would have been MRGO. It was a big issue

18 and there were definitely boxes upstairs.19 There were files in my office. There were I

20 am sure at least one box of files in the vault

21 as well.

22 Q. And wasn't there a significant group

23 of documents that we took and had restored and

24 provided back to St. Bernard Parish?

25 A. Yes. Yes. Absolutely.

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10 (Pages 34 to 37)

Page 34

1 Q. Okay. But besides those and the

2 ones you described in your office and the

3 boxes on the third floor, are you aware of any

4 others?

5 A. Just the ones that may have been in

6 the vault. And those were -- you know, we

7 would have lost because they were completely

8 --

9 Q. Okay. And at the time of the storm

10 -- Let me, while we're on the subject,

11 post-hurricane Katrina , did any Corps of

12 Engineers employees appear before the

13 Council?

14 A. Yes. Much more so than before

15 Katrina.

16 Q. Did any of those -- Do you remember

17 the names of those Corps employees?

18 A. Chris Gilmore. Chris Gilmore gave

19 an often monthly account of levee repair. He

20 usually came with a few other folks, and I can21 see the other gentleman's face. He was one of

22 the names that you always saw when they were

23 -- when they were doing the study, trying to

24 gather all the data to be able to tell

25 Congress that, you know, it needed to be

Page 35

1 closed.

2 Q. Was it Waggone r?

3 A. Waggoner is another one. Colonel

4 Waggoner, we did see him. A Colonel Beaddie,

5 I guess Jeff Beaddie.

6 Q. It's Beaddie. He's the tall,

7 blond-haired guy.

8 A. Tall, no hair, or close to no hair.

9 Q. No hair guy with glasses.

10 A. Yes. But the other fellow, he

11 facilitated the meetings at the Corps office

12 on Leake.

13 Q. Did any of the Corps employees that

14 appeared before the Council subsequen t to

15 Hurricane Katrina ever comm ent, to your

16 know ledge, on the role of the MRGO, if any, in

17 the flooding in St. Bernard P arish?

18 A. I don't recall anybody sticking19 their neck out. Certainly not verbally.

20 Q. Did any Corps employee or

21 representative ever make any comment to you

22 individual ly about the role of the Mississippi

23 River Gul f Outlet, if any, in the flooding in

24 St. Bernard Parish?

25 A. No. Chris Gilmore probably is the

Page 36

1 straightest shooting fellow out of that group,

2 and his -- his levee repair updates, he was --

3 he was always honest enough to say "We know

4 this is not quite where it should be, but

5 we're still working toward --" as far as the

6 repair heights of the levee. That's -- That's

7 really my only recollection of -- Colonel

8 Beaddie made some comments based on studies

9 that he had -- that he had looked at, and

10 that's when they were debating on the control

11 structure. They were talking about a control

12 structure under the green bridge at one point

13 and then he wanted to move it up a little bit

14 further where I guess Industrial Canal and the

15 MRGO joined.

16 Q. That's the Gulf Intracoastal

17 Waterw ay and the Mississippi River Gulf

18 Outlet.

19 A. The GIWW and the MRGO.

20 Q. That's correct.21 A. Correct. I know those acronyms.

22 But I remember him commenting about what he

23 had seen and the fact that their -- their

24 protection was not going to be adequate and

25 that we were definitely vulnerable right now

Page 37

1 because of this time lag in what they were

2 able to do. He commented on the models that

3 they had looked at to determine where that --

4 you know, where that control structure went.

5 And that's one of the trips we went on, was

6 the trip for him to justify to the political

7 leaders of the Parish exactly where they had

8 chosen to make that -- to put that structure,

9 the control structure.

10 Q. Okay. Tell me, or tell us about the

11 events leading up to Hurricane Katrina

12 starting on the weekend before the hurricane.

13 What did you do?

14 A. I attended a lot of meetings. We

15 started having meetings I think Thursday

16 evening, and these would have been

17 State-called meetings where all the parishes

18 that they felt would be affected, or agencies19 that were preparing, would gather around a

20 conference call in their own, you know, own

21 offices and we would -- we would patch in to

22 the conference call, and started having them a

23 little more frequently on the Friday. And by

24 Friday -- Friday early afternoon, knew that

25 there was -- there was some potential danger

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11 (Pages 38 to 41)

Page 38

1 for us and we began making some decisions of

2 who -- who was going -- and I say "we", I am

3 not a decision maker, I'm the recorder and,

4 you know, keeping notes and doing what I am

5 asked to do for the government officials.

6 Q. Let me go back just a little bit.

7 Where did you live at that t ime?

8 A. I lived on the last street in

9 Lexington subdivision. So my front door

10 looked at the 40 Arpent, which looked at the

11 40 Arpent Levee, and then the marsh and then

12 the MRGO.

13 Q. Okay. And who were you living with

14 at the time, or who lived with you at the

15 t ime?

16 A. The same people I live with today.

17 My two children, my daughter Sophie and my son

18 Alex, who are almost 11 and 14 now.

19 Q. Okay. And when Hurricane Katrin a

20 was coming and it was the Friday before the21 storm, what did you do w ith your son and your

22 daughter while you w ere tending to Parish

23 business?

24 A. Going to plenty meetings. It was a

25 naturally occurring weekend for them to be

Page 39

1 with their dad, and I had to make some phone

2 calls to kind of speed up the exchange process

3 with them and get them -- go pick them up

4 quickly, get them to his wife so that they

5 could take them on for the weekend and I could

6 get back to the next meeting that was being

7 called that evening. So they didn't go --

8 They did not leave with believing that

9 anything was going to happen. They left like

10 a regular weekend, which meant very little

11 things went with them, very few things.

12 Q. Where does their dad l ive? Where

13 did he l ive at the time?

14 A. At the time he lived in Morgan City,

15 in Berwick.

16 Q. And tel l us what you did and what

17 actions you took beginning on Friday before

18 the storm.19 A. Not very much personally, but

20 attending the meetings as they were called,

21 gearing up the office, my office for myself to

22 be the only one as a staff member. I believe

23 it was during the meeting Friday -- Hurricane

24 -- not Hurricane -- Tropical Storm Cindy had

25 occurred a month prior to Hurricane Katrina

Page 40

1 and when it reached St. Bernard Parish, it

2 actually hit us with much greater than

3 tropical force winds. It was actually a very

4 frightening experience and nobody was gone.

5 You know, everybody was home. Lots of trees

6 had -- tree damage, limb damage, a lot of

7 electricity went out, and I had been called at

8 probably 3:00 o'clock in the morning and told

9 I needed to put my kids in the car and get to

10 the Council office because they needed me

11 there. And so I did. I drove up to the

12 office. They had Army cots for the kids to

13 sleep on and I began to field many phone calls

14 that were coming in at that point.

15 So because of that experience and

16 the necessity of having somebody there to

17 answer calls and to relay information to

18 Council members, because Council and

19 administration are two very separate entities,

20 legislative versus administrative.21 Q. Administrative, you mean --

22 A. The Parish President's office.

23 Q. -- Mr. Rodriguez's office?

24 A. Yes. Versus the Council office.

25 Q. And the Councils office.

Page 41

1 A. So that Friday, sitting in one of

2 the meetings, I looked at a few of the Council

3 members that were there and I said "I know

4 what happened during Cindy. Aren't we going

5 to expect the same kind of response for the

6 hurricane that's coming?" And so at that

7 point I was named mandator- -- essential

8 personnel, meaning that I was going to stay

9 through the event. The first time ever.

10 Clerk of Council had never stayed, never been

11 considered essential personnel prior to that.

12 But I was -- I was made essential personnel

13 then. And so Saturday was more meetings and

14 kind of back and forth to the house.

15 Q. And with the meetings, who

16 participated in the meetings on Saturday?

17 A. Several department heads, Public

18 Works Director, Roads, the OEP Director, Fire19 -- the Fire Chief, Ambulance, School Board,

20 Police -- Police Department. Somebody was

21 there always from the port. There were --

22 Q. And the port would be the Port of

23 St. Bernard facility. Is that right?

24 A. Yes. Yes. Yes. That Port

25 authority.

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12 (Pages 42 to 45)

Page 42

1 Q. As distinguished between the Port of

2 Orleans?

3 A. Between the Port of Orleans, right.

4 And there were always a representative each

5 from the two refineries in on those meetings.

6 And then a good number, but not all of the

7 Council members were there, which is why I was

8 always in attendance, so that every Council

9 member had access to whatever information was

10 relayed, you know, during those meetings

11 whether they were present or not.

12 Q. In going back a l ittle bit, in your

13 capacity as Clerk for the Council, did you

14 ever hear of the term "funnel" or "the funnel

15 effect" of the M ississippi River Gulf Outlet

16 prior to the time of Hurricane Katrina?

17 A. I had heard it in Dr. Mashriki's

18 presentation definitely. I believe that was a

19 term that he used as they modeled what would

20 take place were the storm surge to come in21 that direction. Pam, whatever, that name.

22 But I do remember that, definitely that

23 explanation from him, the water having nowhere

24 to go, coming -- coming up through this, what

25 doesn't seem narrow when you're in it, but in

Page 43

1 the large scale of things, it is very narrow

2 compared to the Gulf of Mexico itself.

3 Q. Okay. Now go back to -- Sorry for

4 that --

5 A. That's okay.

6 Q. -- deviation. Go back to the

7 telling us about the meetings on Saturday.

8 Who else w as essential personnel besides

9 yourself?

10 A. Standard essential personnel for

11 administrative side of government would your

12 Water and Sewer Director, your Public Works

13 Director, your Transportation Director, Roads

14 Supervisor, Purchasing Agent, who would be

15 responsible for, you know, preparing supplies

16 or making -- you know, making things happen

17 financially in a quick turnaround. A few

18 secretarial positions from administrative side19 who would man phones during -- you know,

20 during the night or morning hours as an event

21 is taking place for folks to call in to.

22 Finance Director was considered essential

23 personnel at that point.

24 Q. What about the Councilmen?

25 A. They --

Page 44

1 Q. And Council wom en?

2 A. No, they're not -- they're not

3 officially named. There's actually an

4 ordinance in place. There was prior to the

5 hurricane. We had just revisited that

6 ordinance that lays out exactly -- exactly who

7 is considered essential personnel, because

8 it's a funding -- it's a payroll issue. You

9 have to -- You have to officially name who's

10 -- who's your first line of defense, who has

11 to be ready to be called back in and be ready

12 with, you know, with payroll issues based on

13 what the Parish President deems as necessary

14 for an event. And based on category. You

15 know, a category 1 versus -- There are

16 different types of personnel called out. Or

17 more personnel called out as the category

18 grows.

19 Q. And are all of these essential

20 personnel on the administrative side? Or --21 A. Yes. Yes. Council would -- would

22 not have been named as essential personnel.

23 They assumed their essentialness. And mine.

24 Q. So the -- But what I am asking is

25 from the adm inistrative as opposed to the

Page 45

1 Council side. Who in the presidentia l side of

2 the government w as essential personnel?

3 A. That's all those department

4 directors.

5 Q. Okay.

6 A. That's all administrative. The only

7 -- The only Council staffing that they named

8 was myself, new. The TV studio director is

9 kind of a position that teeters between

10 administration and Council and he is also --

11 was also considered, our TV studio director

12 was concerned an essential personnel. At this

13 point he belonged to the Council. So we would

14 have been the only two kind of official

15 positions named.

16 Q. And what was the sentiment on

17 Saturday before the storm at the Council -- I

18 mean at the Council with al l -- in al l the19 meetings?

20 A. There was growing concern, and the

21 later it got on Saturday, the more the concern

22 grew that it was indeed going to be a large

23 catastrophic event. We would watch the models

24 as the conference calls would come in. There

25 were modeling maps that would occur that would

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13 (Pages 46 to 49)

Page 46

1 be shown in our -- in the room right off the

2 OEP office and --

3 Q. Who was providing you the models?

4 Any of those water models?

5 A. Let me think if we had -- We had a

6 number of models, but they were through our --

7 through the service there, the Internet

8 service that we had there at government. So

9 it would have been National Weather Service

10 and I don't know how many different news media

11 -- different folks they used.

12 Q. But were the models of the storm

13 track or were they m odels of --

14 A. A lot -- And lot of it was storm

15 track.

16 Q. -- what would happen when the storm

17 -- Okay.

18 A. Right. A lot of it was storm

19 track. I remember conversations in the

20 conference calls about what do you -- what do21 you think we're going to experience

22 water-wise? What do you think we're going to

23 have surge -- You know, what's the surge model

24 look like? But I don't recall that we saw

25 that over and over. I remember the track over

Page 47

1 and over, and you could never see St. Bernard

2 Parish. Every time you would see the track,

3 it completely covered St. Bernard.

4 Q. And at the time who was present?

5 Was it the essential personnel you talked

6 about, the Council members --

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. -- or Mr. Rodriguez?

9 A. He -- He wouldn't have come in until

10 Saturday evening. He had just experienced

11 major surgery and a major setback from the

12 surgery and had not even been officially back

13 to work in a full time -- you know, in a daily

14 capacity, but he came in that evening,

15 Saturday evening. And maybe not even Saturday

16 evening. It may have been Sunday evening that

17 he finally came in, he and his family. And I

18 have notes about that.19 Q. And when you have notes about that,

20 do you have written notes about that?

21 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively). Uh-huh

22 (affirmatively).

23 Q. And where are those written notes

24 today?

25 A. I have a copy of those, because I've

Page 48

1 had to testify on behalf of the St. Rita's

2 Nursing Home trial. So I have copies of those

3 notes. But the originals are in -- should

4 still be in my office, Council office.

5 Q. I understand that you had a camera

6 with you. Do you know of anybody else that

7 was there that had a camera with them also?

8 A. Our TV studio director was filming

9 the entire time. Picture-wise, or camera-wise

10 I am sure there were a few others. But Ken

11 definitely had his and I had mine until the

12 battery died and we had no more electricity so

13 that was the end of picture taking.

14 Q. Besides Ken and yourself, do you

15 remember anybody that may have had a video

16 camera or a picture camera?

17 A. I really don't. I would assume that

18 there may have been some firemen who did. Our

19 Council chambers -- Our Council chambers, the

20 back of it faced Judge Perez Drive; all21 windows, very large windows. So it was, at

22 the time the hurricane was hitting, it was an

23 unbelievable show to watch until it became

24 catastrophic and nobody could watch, but it

25 provided a great kind of ampitheater for the

Page 49

1 events of the hurricane as the wind was

2 blowing. And I'm -- I have never seen them,

3 but there could have been some fire personnel

4 who had originally camped out in that area for

5 the night that may have photographs.

6 Q. When did the storm's effect begin to

7 be felt at the St. Bernard Par ish Council

8 chambers? Or I should say the Council

9 building.

10 A. Right. The Government Complex

11 building is what we call it. I slept the last

12 night in my house Saturday night, and by

13 Sunday, Sunday noonish we were loading buses,

14 the last of buses, the last of people we could

15 gather off the streets to get out of St.

16 Bernard, and the wind was -- was blowing

17 rather nicely at that point. You definitely

18 knew something was coming. I recall taking a19 drive with Mr. DiFatta and Miss Hoffmeister,

20 and maybe Mr. Madary. I actually have picture

21 of this as well. We went across the green

22 bridge and went on -- Is that Chef Highway?

23 Q. Yes.

24 A. To where the locks are to see if the

25 water was coming up there. And I have a

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14 (Pages 50 to 53)

Page 50

1 picture on top of the green bridge of the MRGO

2 which was already spilling over its banks.

3 Q. You have a photograph?

4 A. Yes. And one on the way back.

5 Q. Tell me when those were taken.

6 A. That would have been Sunday night,

7 Sunday evening, and my only way to give you a

8 better estimate of time would be to see my

9 notes and see what time our next meeting was.

10 Because we took the trip in between meetings.

11 You know, raced to go take a look and then

12 drove all the way down beyond St. Bernard High

13 School to where Jack Stevens' home is, that's

14 where Beauregard --

15 Q. Correct?

16 A. -- Proctor?

17 Q. It's Proctor's Landing.

18 A. Yes. We went there, couldn't go to

19 his home because water was already up on that

20 -- on that road significantly. Enough to --21 Q. What type of vehicle were y'all

22 traveling in?

23 A. We were in a -- Mr. DiFatta

24 commandeered a vehicle from someone. It was

25 our early attempt at commandeering. It -- It

Page 51

1 wasn't a car, I can tell you that, and it

2 wasn't a truck, but it would have been in

3 between, and I am -- I don't remember.

4 Q. Was it bigger than a pickup truck?

5 A. It would have been as high.

6 Q. When you say truck, was it like an

7 Army personnel vehicle?

8 A. No. No, it was a -- I think it was

9 one of the OEP vehicles. So it was -- It

10 wasn't one of these -- I mean, it's something

11 you could drive in today and not be considered

12 outlandish in some large vehicle. But it was

13 definitely -- I had a Montero at that time,

14 Mitsubishi Montero, and it was, you know, a

15 little bit higher than that would have been.

16 Q. Did you take photographs when you

17 went dow n to the eastern edge of the parish?

18 A. I did. But they didn't come out19 really well. I did. I have one that is a

20 little bit difficult to see. I used the

21 flash, but we had to turn around in that kind

22 of that large area before you go down where

23 the houses were; the water was already up to

24 that point then.

25 Q. That's like at the end of the Judge

Page 52

1 Perez Extension? Or were you farther down?

2 A. No, further than that. Where you

3 turn -- Where you turn to go into Fort --

4 Q. Proctor's Landing.

5 A. Yes. There's kind of a big -- kind

6 of a circular area is my memory where they had

7 palm trees they had planted there, and there

8 -- I remember Joey pulling down what was kind

9 of like a ramp into the water and the water

10 was already there, much higher than it should

11 have been, and we convinced him to please turn

12 around and this was not where we wanted to

13 be. And we went to St. Bernard High School.

14 I have a couple of pictures there of folks who

15 were -- who had come there as a shelter of

16 last resort and some government staffing who

17 were staffing that school.

18 Q. Was there anybody else with you on

19 that trip that had a camera, or were you the

20 only one?21 A. No, I think -- I'm pretty sure I'm

22 the only one that had a camera then.

23 Q. And what type of camera did you

24 have?

25 A. It's in my purse. It's Minolta I

Page 53

1 think. A digital camera.

2 Q. It's a digital camera?

3 A. Yes. Yes.

4 Q. And does it say pictures and save

5 them to a memory stick?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And did you save those photographs

8 to the memory stick?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. And did you subsequently upload them

11 to a computer?

12 A. Yes. Our TV studio director

13 uploaded them to a CD. I have never even

14 looked at it, but asked him if he would please

15 put them on the -- on the CD.

16 Q. And did you subsequent to taking the

17 pictures do anything to edit or enhance the

18 photographs?19 A. No. I didn't have time to play

20 anything like that after the hurricane.

21 Q. And subsequent to that point or up

22 until today, have you ever done anything to

23 edit or enhance those images?

24 A. Uh-uh (negatively). No. I haven't

25 had time to go back. I have looked at them,

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15 (Pages 54 to 57)

Page 54

1 you know, several times, but no, I haven't

2 done anything to them.

3 Q. And in looking at -- When it was --

4 Was it the television director that put t hem

5 on disk for you?


7 Q. Do you know if he did anything to

8 edit or enhance the photographs?

9 A. There wouldn't have been any reason

10 to, no. I just asked him to please create a

11 backup in case something happened, you know,

12 to the memory stick.

13 Q. And would those photographs then be

14 a fair and accurate depiction of the events as

15 you photographed them --

16 A. Absolutely.

17 Q. -- on the Sunday evening, is it

18 August 28 of 2005?

19 A. Yes. Is that right? Sunday

20 evening.21 Q. Well, the Sunday evening prior to

22 the hurricane.

23 A. Whatever that date is. Sunday

24 evening, 28. 29 was Monday, right? Because

25 it was stormy all night long. I slept in Mr.

Page 55

1 Dean's office and wind howling.

2 Q. Approximately what time was that

3 trip that y'all rode around the parish?

4 A. It was already growing dark when we

5 left, so I am going to say 7:00, around

6 7:00ish in the evening. And I would have to

7 see what time our -- what time our meeting was

8 that evening, that Sunday night. Because we

9 were taking the trip quickly before the next

10 meeting was called.

11 Q. And do you have any objection or

12 issues wit h us obtaining a copy of your notes

13 and those photographs?

14 A. Absolutely not.

15 Q. And then we would provide them to

16 every -- all the parties in the litigation.

17 A. We are supposed to be the providers

18 of information to all the public so no,19 absolutely not.

20 Q. Were the notes that you took kept

21 contemporaneously with the events that are

22 depicted in the notes?

23 A. In the pictures?

24 Q. No, no. Like you said --

25 A. I took the notes as each meeting

Page 56

1 would take place, the time, you know, usually

2 would write down who was present; kind of, you

3 know, quick sketch of who was there, and then

4 I took notes as the information unfolded as

5 they, you know, gave any kind of updates. And

6 I have notes -- I have specific notes about

7 the surge, the water surge. I do remember

8 that. When they asked National Weather

9 Service and I questioned a couple of folks

10 about what they expected for St. Bernard.

11 Q. And were the notes that you were

12 taking personal notes for you or were they

13 notes that you were takin g in the course and

14 scope of your business as, or your occupation

15 as Clerk of the St. Bernard Parish Council?

16 A. Yes, my duties as Clerk of Council.

17 And understand, that as someone who has -- who

18 had never before been a government employee or

19 even government experience and no -- no real

20 transition time between the lady who had21 served as Clerk of Council for the entire time

22 there had been a Council for St. Bernard

23 Parish, she literally was out right as I came

24 in, and so I learned a lot and did -- did

25 things based on my assessment of the need for

Page 57

1 people to know, you know, know what happened.

2 Part of my job description was that -- was to

3 provide information to all Council members

4 regardless of whether or not they were present

5 at a meeting. And I was their

6 representative. And if they were not --

7 unable to be there, I needed to be able to say

8 this is what happened, and the best way I do

9 that is taking notes, because I need a written

10 format.

11 Q. So the notes were taken as part of

12 your, or in the ordinary course and scope of

13 your occupation as the Clerk of Council?

14 A. As I saw it, yes. You won't see

15 that -- You won't see that anywhere in a job

16 description, but that was my understanding of

17 how I would need to provide information to

18 those who would not -- you know, who would not19 be in attendance and --

20 Q. Let me ask you one other question

21 for our purposes about the notes. Did you

22 take the notes contemporaneous with the events

23 described in the notes?

24 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively). As they

25 were -- As it was happening I was --

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16 (Pages 58 to 61)

Page 58

1 Q. As they were occurring, you were

2 taking notes; is that correct?

3 A. I was taking notes on a note pad and

4 just following one meeting after the next in

5 notes.

6 Q. And did you transcribe those notes

7 or are they still handw ritten?

8 A. Still handwritten exactly as they

9 were then.

10 Q. Okay. And then tell me about the

11 photographs that you described about the trip

12 that you took around the parish with Mr.

13 DiFatta, Mr. Madary, and Miss Hoffmeister that

14 you just told us about.

15 A. I would have taken those Sunday

16 evening on our trip across the MRGO to check

17 on the locks at Chef Menteur to see where the

18 water level was there and then down eastern --

19 the eastern portion of St. Bernard to see

20 water level down at that end, as well as visit21 the shelter at St. Bernard High School before

22 coming back up to go to the meeting, I believe

23 the last meeting of the night.

24 Q. And let me ask you, did you take any

25 or do you have any --

Page 59

1 A. I didn't take notes during that

2 trip.

3 Q. Okay. Do you have any recollection

4 of the water in the Mississippi River Gulf

5 Outlet as you drove over it and back on Sunday

6 evening?

7 A. Yes. I took -- took pictures of

8 both of those, going and coming, and asked Mr.

9 DiFatta to slow down so I could -- you know,

10 let me roll down the window, let me get a

11 picture, because it was very obviously already

12 spilling over its banks. As large as it

13 looked when I had been in it in a boat, it was

14 enormous at that point. It was phenomenal.

15 Q. At the time was it still daylight

16 outside?

17 A. Enough that you can see the water.

18 No, it's not -- it's not -- It's definitely19 dusk, growing to evening when the pictures are

20 taken, and I don't have the -- I have them at

21 home. I don't have them in this -- I had them

22 -- I had ordered them a little bit larger and

23 I had them on my door at the Council office.

24 On my office door I had two pictures. And

25 that was the MRGO pictures.

Page 60

1 Q. I think I remember those.


3 Q. But let me ask you as part of the

4 deposition, if you would, could you provide us

5 wit h an electronic version of those pictures?


7 Q. And we'll attach it to the

8 deposition and we'll print a set. The

9 electronic version should have metadata

10 attached to it which will indicate when you

11 took the photograph, what the exposure was.

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. So we'll know all about that based

14 on the pictures. That's why we would like to

15 get an electronic version if we could.

16 A. And if it's still -- I don't know

17 that it's still on the memory card, the

18 original memory card. If it is, I'll be glad

19 to. I'll give what you I have. I definitely

20 have the disk that Ken Winters burned with21 those photographs on it.

22 Q. Okay.

23 A. And that would include photographs

24 the next day as the water is coming up in the

25 parking lot, you know, all the pictures I was

Page 61

1 able to take until the battery went dead and

2 that's it.

3 Q. Okay. Thank you. And I will

4 coordinate wit h you about getting that and I

5 wil l attach it to the deposition and provide

6 copies to everyone.

7 And we'll attach that as Exhibit

8 1, which w ill be the photographs for Miss

9 Boudreaux.

10 A. Are you -- Do you want the notes

11 from those meetings as well?

12 Q. Yes, but we might have to get that

13 from the St. Bernard Parish Council. Because

14 if it -- But I will address that and we'll

15 provide --

16 A. Okay.

17 Q. -- them, not attach them to the

18 deposition, but we'll provide them to19 everybody once we obtain a copy of them .

20 A. Okay.

21 MR. ANDRY:

22 Off the record for a second.

23 (Whereupon a discussion was held

24 off the record.)

25 THE WITNESS:

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17 (Pages 62 to 65)

Page 62

1 Yeah, minus a Xerox copy of what

2 originally was there. You know, what

3 should still be there.

4 EXAMINATION BY MR. ANDRY:

5 Q. Okay. What happened on Sunday

6 night?

7 A. Sunday night we had the last -- the

8 last meeting fairly, fairly late that

9 evening. I say 9:00 o'clock, 10:00 maybe, and

10 -- and the news -- the news or the projection

11 of the hurricane had by that time grown very

12 severe for St. Bernard and so we -- we went to

13 the different areas of the building. Council

14 went back to Council offices where we were

15 going to spend the night. Several Council

16 members had put cots in there, in their

17 offices to accommodate a spouse or, you know,

18 had their animals with them, whatever. And we

19 at some point, you know, lights out, the

20 wind's blowing the whole time. I remember21 that, because that's my last night of sleep,

22 was Saturday night. I didn't sleep well at

23 all Sunday evening because the wind was

24 howling very loudly and I remember -- I

25 remember going to -- There was a bathroom in

Page 63

1 Mr. Dean's office, which is why I stayed there

2 rather than mine, and he also had a large

3 couch and I didn't have one in my office.

4 Q. Let me ask you this, for those who

5 have never been in the building, and that

6 would be the people reading the deposition and

7 watching the deposition.


9 Q. As best you can, could you describe

10 where those rooms are wi thin the Council --

11 within the government building --

12 A. Okay.

13 Q. -- so that we understand where Mr.

14 Dean's office is and --

15 A. Okay.

16 Q. -- how that relates to the exterior

17 of the building, first floor, second floor?

18 A. Okay. The Council offices are19 located on the -- were located on the first

20 floor of the Government Complex building. As

21 you enter the main lobby, Council assumed the

22 left wing of the building. Toward the back

23 corner.

24 Mr. Dean's office at the time was

25 what had formerly been the police jury

Page 64

1 President's office. So it was rather large

2 and had a little bit more furniture in it than

3 other offices. But it would have been in the

4 corner -- corner of the first floor building.

5 The way the building is fashioned,

6 or it was constructed, they're very high

7 walls. The windows that you have are

8 significantly above eye level. So you really

9 can't see outside. It's windows so you get

10 light, but you can't see -- you can't see

11 trees, you can't see anything else. They're

12 very high ceilings on the first floor

13 offices. And that's where I stayed, because

14 he had a private bathroom in his office and

15 had a couch, so there was something to sleep

16 on without having to get a cot. That's where

17 I stayed.

18 There were other Council members

19 in other places. And we -- Miss Hoffmeister

20 had asked me to make sure that she was awake21 by 6:30, 7:00 o'clock in the morning because

22 her daughter was calling from Florida and they

23 wanted to do a live radio interview with her,

24 because we would be in the midst of Hurricane

25 Katrina at that point.

Page 65

1 Q. And her daughter is a news reporter

2 in Florida? Is that correct?

3 A. She works with -- She worked then

4 with Innis Broadcast, I believe. She doesn't

5 do radio, but she works in the offices of N

6 Broadcasting.

7 Q. And did Miss Hoffmeister participate

8 in the interview on -- that w ould be Monday

9 morning?

10 A. I went to make sure she was awake,

11 and she was awake. She and her husband and

12 the dog were already awake. And I don't know

13 that anybody slept really well that night,

14 because it was very loud. It was not a

15 soothing noise. A howling wind through the

16 night. And I believe she -- she was able to

17 speak to them by phone. It was a phone

18 interview, a cell phone. I think she was on19 cell phone at that time. But we were

20 scheduled to have a meeting, a conference call

21 the morning of Katrina's impact and at the

22 point we went up to begin that meeting is loss

23 of electricity and then the events that

24 unfold.

25 Q. Let's go back and do it slowly.

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18 (Pages 66 to 69)

Page 66

1 Other than the wind and the how ling noise,

2 wer e there any significant events, to your

3 recollection, breaking glass or anything like

4 that on Sunday night?

5 A. No. Not in -- Not in that

6 building. Not at that point. No. To my

7 knowledge, there were none. But we are

8 talking about large -- mostly wall and then

9 window at the top which is over, you know, --

10 is under an overhang at the second floor. So

11 while it's exposed to the outside, it's still

12 very much like a fortress, you know, being in

13 that building.

14 Q. And when you awoke on Sunday morning

15 after you woke up Miss Hoffmeister, what did

16 you do?

17 A. Went upstairs -- Well, I was going

18 to tell you about having to go to the bathroom

19 in Mr. Dean's office and I had heard this --

20 the wind all night long and, I don't know, not21 meaning to be more descriptive than I need to

22 be, but the toilet seat was completely wet and

23 I had this, "Oh, my gosh, how in the world is

24 water getting on the toilet seat? Is there

25 water coming up, you know, already through the

Page 67

1 toilet? Is it spilling over?" You know, you

2 don't pay attention, you know, until you feel

3 the wet and realized at that point that the

4 wind had been blowing so significantly that

5 the water was actually coming from the high

6 window, it was being blown through -- through

7 that, the crack I guess in the top or the

8 bottom of the window and down onto the-- onto

9 the toilet. That's where the water -- It was

10 not coming from, you know, in the sewer system

11 itself, but the wind was so incredible through

12 the night that it had blown the water through

13 that -- blown the rain through that window

14 into the -- you know, the carpeting was wet

15 and the bathroom as well.

16 Q. And when you wok e up that morning,

17 did you have occasion to go outside?

18 A. Mr. Henderson and I bravely tried to19 go outside at some point during the morning,

20 but it would not have been until it was a

21 little bit later in the morning when the wind

22 really began blowing much greater. We had

23 parked our cars under the awning of that

24 government building, convinced that we would,

25 you know, be safe from all harm, and had got

Page 68

1 word from somebody who -- whose windows had

2 just blown out of their car, and I, ridiculous

3 as it may sound, said, "Kenny, I wonder if my

4 windows blew out. I'm parked under the

5 awning, too." And this is obviously before

6 any water, before, you know, anything of that

7 nature has occurred. So Mr. Henderson and I,

8 who are probably the two smallest people on

9 the Council, in the Council entourage, decided

10 to go out of the side door. The door was just

11 sucked away from us as soon as we pushed it,

12 you know, pushed to have it open and he and I

13 had to fight to try to close it. Couldn't see

14 my car because there was another car blocking

15 it, and at that point realized we're not going

16 outside. I mean, he and I would have been --

17 would have been blown away God knows where

18 because the wind was so strong. So we had to

19 physically pull that door back, pull it

20 closed.21 Q. And when you went outside, could you

22 tell which direction the wind was blowing

23 from?

24 A. No. I couldn't. I mean, I know

25 that it blew the door completely back against

Page 69

1 the wall as we opened it. So it would have

2 been the door facing the auditorium on the

3 side of the Government Complex building.

4 Q. So if I was facing the building from

5 Judge Perez, you would have been going from

6 the left side of the building to the right

7 side of the building?

8 A. You're facing our building on Judge

9 Perez, it would have been the right side. It

10 blew the door back toward Torres Park. Sucked

11 it open and smacked it against the wall, that

12 direction.

13 Q. And do you know what time that was?

14 A. I would say -- No. I don't. 9:30.

15 9:00, 9:30 maybe in the morning.

16 Q. Was it sunny outside?

17 A. It was -- It was light. It wasn't a

18 pretty day, the day of the hurricane. So it19 was daylight. But I can't tell you that it

20 was a sunny day.

21 Q. And could you tell us what happened

22 after that?

23 A. There were several places to watch

24 what was going on. One was the Council

25 chambers.

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19 (Pages 70 to 73)

Page 70

1 Q. But let me ask you one question

2 before. Was there any wat er outside --

3 A. Uh-uh (negatively).

4 Q. -- of the Council chamber s that you

5 saw --

6 A. Not at that point.

7 Q. -- when you and Mr. Henderson opened

8 the door at approximatel y 9:00 o'clock in the

9 morning?

10 A. No. So your time frame for what I

11 say, you know, I saw the water when it came

12 up, but I -- the concept of time for many of

13 us was kind of a lost point. You weren't

14 looking at clocks anywhere, you know, all over

15 the building and I wasn't wearing a watch. I

16 had a cell phone, but I wasn't using the cell

17 phone. It was just a lot of -- a lot of

18 activity, a lot of loud noise and sound and

19 watching the trees bending and the wind

20 blowing and rain.21 Q. Had the storm, the eye of the storm

22 made landfall at that point in t ime?

23 A. I don't -- We wouldn't have had a

24 reference point to that. I'd have to tell you

25 that based on after. I don't think it had.

Page 71

1 We hadn't experienced that quiet that you get,

2 you know, as the eye comes over you.

3 Q. Did that happen at any point in

4 t ime?

5 A. Jon, I am sure that it did, but it

6 was a rather unpleasant day.

7 Q. Well, tell us about what happened

8 after 9:00 o'clock. When did you first see

9 water?

10 A. I was in the Council chambers

11 watching the panoramic view of the hurricane,

12 the oak trees on Judge Perez bending, and went

13 back into the main part of the building, and I

14 think out into the -- to the foyer area was

15 where you really got a lot of the sound. It

16 seemed that I think it was picking up the

17 gravel off of the roof and it was slamming the

18 gravel into the windows in that -- where that19 open kind of atrium that goes all the way up

20 --

21 Q. That's in the center of the

22 building?

23 A. -- to the top. Yes. And so I would

24 have gone in the second floor and you could

25 hear -- it would get really loud and then

Page 72

1 folks would scatter out of that -- out of that

2 area, because it sounded very much like, you

3 know, all the glass was going to shatter. The

4 sound was that great. And it never did.

5 There were a couple of office windows that did

6 break on the second floor because something

7 blew into them. But we didn't experience that

8 personally.

9 Q. And speaking of the win dows on the

10 second floor of the building, was there

11 protection that was put on the windows from

12 the outside?

13 A. Uh-huh (affirmatively). Rather

14 securely put on the outside.

15 Q. What was that made of?

16 A. Some plexiglass kind of -- It almost

17 looks like corrugated, like a corrugated

18 plexiglass. Very difficult to see out of.

19 You don't get a regular view of outside. It

20 made quite a few people unhappy because, you21 know, pre-hurricane, it took your view of

22 nature away completely.

23 Q. And when did you first notice that

24 there was water coming up?

25 A. I didn't notice it at all. Somebody

Page 73

1 said to me, "Did you see the water in the2 parking lot? You need to go downstairs and3 see the water in the parking lot." And so off4 I went down the stairs, back stairs by the5 Council office, past my office, got out into6 the open foyer area where you enter the7 building in normal operating times, and -- and8 I have pictures here of water up on the glass9 doors of the building already pouring in from

10 the parking lot.11 Q. (Counsel hands documents to12 Witness.)13 A. And at this point I realize that I'm14 also standing in water, but it's just the15 soles of my tennis shoes. It's not -- You16 know, I wouldn't have noticed -- I wasn't17 trudging through water. I was in just this

18 surface of water there. And the water was19 already up, I guess halfway up the tires of20 the cars, and the folks who where there who21 had watched it and we had --22 Q. Could you tell me who those folks23 were?24 A. Government employees. Different25 folks.

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20 (Pages 74 to 77)

Page 74

1 Q. Do you remember their names?

2 A. There are quite a number of them.

3 Some of the Public Works fellows, I have

4 pictures of them and I don't remember -- I

5 don't remember their names. But Donna Nye,

6 who was secretary to the CAO was there, and

7 she is one of the ones that called me to go

8 take a look at the parking lot. There were

9 quite a few people.

10 Q. Was Robert Turner there?

11 A. Yes, Bob Turner was there. He was

12 guesstimating at what point the water was

13 going to stop once the water, you know,

14 started coming in and rising significantly.

15 He was using a big mural in the bottom -- on

16 the bottom floor of the Government Complex and

17 saying, "It's going to get to this step and

18 then it's going to stop" or "It's going to get

19 to this step, this window, you know, in the

20 mural." So I do remember him there.21 Q. And at that time when you looked

22 out, do you know w hat direction the water was

23 coming from?

24 A. At this point coming from the New

25 Orleans direction. From the Ninth Ward area.

Page 75

1 Q. In looking out to the other side of

2 the building, was there any water coming from

3 the other side of the building?

4 A. There -- We didn't go through the

5 doors at that point. The only -- The only

6 view -- At this point, there was water beyond

7 this window so I don't -- I didn't note any --

8 I mean, there was water everywhere you looked,

9 but you couldn't get a view on that. Like the

10 eastern end of the parish. There was no way

11 to really see that without trying to go

12 outside or go up on the third floor. Your

13 vision would have been fairly --

14 Q. Do you know if anybody went up on

15 the third floor and viewed w here the water was

16 coming from?

17 A. I'm sure there were some brave souls

18 who did. I don't know that personally, but19 I'm sure there were. Either firefighters who

20 where there -- We had National Guardsmen who

21 where there, who were stationed there with

22 us. Mark Madary, who was the Council member

23 from District A, had -- he left during the --

24 That's when he left, during the supposed eye

25 of the storm, with one of the National

Page 76

1 Guardsmen, who knew that his grandfather was

2 in Arabi and there was no water, and no water

3 coming up, but he and this National Guardsman

4 got up Judge Perez going towards New Orleans

5 in a Humm V, I think. They were in an a

6 military vehicle. And obviously I didn't go

7 with them, so this is the stories that he has

8 shared. He got up toward Arabi and the water

9 just poured in at an alarming rate, so quickly

10 that they didn't make it to the destination of

11 the grandfather's house. They -- The Humm V

12 started floating. They ended up under

13 awnings; had to pull themselves up on

14 buildings, and kind of go from building to

15 building for safety. Which would have been

16 the time, you know, shortly after that we

17 started seeing the water here in the parking

18 lot.

19 Q. Looking outside through that

20 photograph -- Can I take the photograph out?21 A. This is Judge Perez. Uh-huh

22 (affirmatively). This is the Judge Perez side

23 of the lobby.

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