kathy otermat gdpud meeting transcript

7/31/2019 Kathy Otermat GDPUD Meeting Transcript

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Transcript: GDPUD Special Meeting August 21, 2012 - 1 -

TRANSCRIPT1: Special Meeting August 21, 2012

Georgetown Divide Public Utility District

Griffiths2 Call the meeting to order. Its about 2 minutes after 6.

(Pledge of Allegiance)

OK, start out, I guess, the #2 on the Agenda is the adoption of the Agenda. Entertain a motion toadopt the Agenda unless there is anyone has anything to add to it? (Moved by Krizl, seconded byNeeley) Moved and seconded to adopt the Agenda as submitted? Public comment? All in favor sayAye. AYE. Now since I have to read this Id better get my glasses on. Public Forum. This is aSpecial Meeting under Govt Code Sec 54956, and theres a 3 missing from there. Public commentis limited to items appearing on the Agenda, Under Section 54954.3 the public shall have the right tocomment on either any items appearing on the Agenda prior to or during consideration of the items.

Public comment on items not appearing on the Agenda should be made at the regular meeting of theDistrict. So, would anybody in the public like to comment before we begin? (No comments.) Thatsa first! Ok, moving along.

ITEM 33

- BOARD MEMBER CONDUCT. Consideration of complaints found by StationaryEngineers Local 39 and district employees concerning removal of private and confidential

information from the district office, letter from District Counsel and related issues. Theres aSection A and B basically having to do with this. I guess this came about initially . . . I got a lettervia email from Bill Wright regarding Kathy as Treasurerrequested some backup information forchecks that she was to sign on August 8th. And as a consequence there was allegations at least ofcopies or photographs made of personal personnel information, and then of course that left when

Kathy left. So, there are several requests, both from the local Union and from our Counsel.Basically this had to do with removal of information, and I think the copy of the letter that Bill wroteis only the first page of that. Its on the back. So maybe the way to do this is just to read that into therecord, and this was sent on August 14th. And this is regarding the removal of confidentialinformation from the GDPUD office, and the letter written by Bill to Kathy Otermat.

LETTER: We have received several complaints from GDPUD employees who saw you onWednesday, August 8, 2012, apparently copying and photographing personal employee information

and confidential GDPUD information, which you had requested to review as backup informationor checks you signed in your capacity as treasurer of the GDPUD Board of Directors.

As you have no authority to remove confidential information from the GDPUD premises, we are

extremely concerned about the security of our employees personal information and other

confidential GDPUD information.

Please provide a written explanation of your purpose in requesting access to the backup

information and an explanation and description of what information you copied, transcribed or

hotographed.

Please also provide a copy of every piece of information that you transcribed, either electronically or

by hand, and provide copies of all photographs you took at the GDPUD office on August 8.

In addition, please provide an explanation, description and copies of all employee information,


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invoices, and other documentation you have requested as backup in your capacity as treasurer ofthe Board, which you have copied, transcribed or photographed in the GDPUD office at any time in

the past. - This is written by Bill Wright.

On the 13th there was apparently received a letter 4 - and I didnt get a copy until sometime later -from Chuck Thiel from the Stationary Engineers Local 39 International Union of Operating EngineersAFL-CIO, and this is addressed to the Board of Directors.

LETTER: It has been brought to our attention that on August 8, 2012, Ms. Kathy Ottermat (sic), inher capacity as Treasurer of the Georgetown Divide Public Utility District, took photographs with

her personal camera, pictures of documents containing employee social security numbers and other

sensitive data protected by State and Federal privacy laws. Now while within her capacity as

Treasurer she may have access to that information, taking personal photographs of this data

eopardizes its security and exposes the District to immense liability. This action, while not illegal,

was extremely foolhardy and thwarts the Districts attempts to protect such private information

without negating the Districts liability and legal obligation to protect such information.

If Ms. Ottermats (sic) camera, SD card or computer are lost, stolen or used by someone other than

an authorized District employee (i.e. Photo processor, computer repair service) a data breach will

occur and the law requires employer to take certain actions to minimize the possibility of identitytheft. I would suggest that the Board of Supervisors5 (sic) consider taking steps to restrict such

actions from happening in the future and that Ms. Ottermat (sic) be ordered to destroy all copies of

rivate employee information in her possession immediately. Furthermore, due to this bizarre

violation of normal business practices, we are asking the District to take proactive steps to protect

employee information through the purchase of an identity theft protection service such as LifeLock.

Industry professionals state that a persons identity should be monitored for at least 18 months due to

a data beach and the District should purchase such a plan for at least that long.

Thank you in advance for taking effective steps to prevent any reoccurrences of this type and taking

appropriate action to prevent any harm caused by this data breach of private information. Please

notify me of the District intentions no later than September 14, 2012.

So as a consequence ofthis it seems like theres three actions the Board can consider, and how we dothis I dont know. But, take steps to destroy or otherwise eliminate all copies of private and employee

information. Since this exists in digital form I think thats basically impossible. Second, protectemployees by purchasing LifeLock or something equivalent to that, for 18 months. And, then, three,prevent similar actions in the future. So, I guess the question is: What do we want to do with this?The action of purchasing LifeLock or some other thing for the employees to prevent this personalinformation from ever being released seems in my opinion a minimal thing, and also preventingsimilar actions in the future.

Neeley6 Could we ask Hank to describe what the employees have had to do or the impact upon them, once

they realized that things were being photocopied?

Griffiths Sure.

Otermat7 Can we also talk to see if the allegation is even true?

Griffiths Well, the issue is . . . we can go into that, but the issue being, if that was an issue, this is a week later.

Otermat Its not a week later.


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Male Its a week from the time the letter was sent out.

Neeley I would like us to present everything, and then Kathy rebut everything.

Otermat Youd rather have the lynching and then the investigation?

Griffiths Yea, lets put this in terms ofthe most apt to get people throwing brickbats at us. That wouldcertainly help things. (Speaking to Kathy) I didnt do this, you did this.

Neeley Id like to hear whats happened with the employees. Have they had to make changes, take steps, etc?

Krizl8 Can I add to that? Chucks letter talks a little bit about the procedural issues. Talk a little bit, if you

would, about the liability concerns that the District has and why the District has to take certain stepsto protect the employees in the event of a possible breach of their personal information and security.And the responsibility that the District has to take in order to minimize that, in order to protect theDistrict, and the employees.

White9 I think Bill can speak to the legal requirements of the District protecting the employees. But if there

is a security breach, the District is required to take certain steps. What has happened at this point issome employees have signed up for LifeLock coverage. Reports have come back to me of flaggingtheir bank accounts or freezing their bank accounts or savings accounts, or other activities that theymay have spoken to me, include contact with PERS to just get information about what could happen.I havent kept a log of everything every individual has done. We have met several times to discuss

what their actions may be. And if the employees would like to comment on the different things theyhave done, that would be fine. Thats what I know at this point in time.

Neeley When I was Treasurer and signed checks, similar to what Kathy is doing now, I never asked for thebackup for the personal employee deduction stuff because I thought that was kind of their private . . .So the three particular checks that some of the employees told me concern them is, one to Aflacwhich handles the insurance separate from what the District provides. Employees are entitled to sign

up for additional stuff if they pay for it. The checks in question were the District forwarding to theUnion the insurance or PERS the employee deductions, so this was not the Districts money going out

the door. This was our responsibility to pay for all the things that are deducted from the employeeschecks. When I came in to see what the invoices looked like to have some idea of what were talkingaboutIs it a big thing, a little thing?for example, one of the invoices to the insurance showed eachpersons name, their social security number, the kind of insurance they wanted, and then the charge.And, so, I think the alarming part to employees, without knowing what, if or why, is that socialsecurity numbers and their name, once leaked, never really come back. They can be sold, people cando things. I mean, its scary, because with computers you dont know what can be done. Maybenothing can be done. Maybe she just took it and took it home, but what if? And so, the biggestquestion is What if? What if somehow the information slipped out? because each of the formsshowed exactly the person, the kind of insurance, even their accounts for additional retirementseparate from PERS. Like we talked about in the past about people questioning bills, ICMA account,thats a separate retirement thing that he contributes to, but we forward his deduction. So one of thechecks was to a company that handles these various additional retirement accounts. Again, socialsecurity number, name and the amount the person is contributing to these various kinds of things. Soeven if the information is never leaked, thats very private. People expect that information to beprotected. I think half the employer laws require that we protect certain things. We certainly dontgive out social security numbers and names and lists. I understand some of the employees are reallynervous because some of them have been stuck in this situation before where an ex-wife or an ex-friend or something gets mad at you, takes your information, messes with your credit. So its just the


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possibility that makes everybody nervous, and having no insurance. And once something gets in thecomputer world, as I understand it, and Im not very good at it, I mean its there. So even if

information is returned, what does that mean?

Podsedly10 Can we find out what happened? This is crazy. (Considerable audience disquiet about not knowingthe charges.)

Neeley She took pictures of the attachments to checks.

Unk. male Its alleged, but we dont know what actually happened. She should have been asked, at the time.This is stupid.

Griffiths Hang on. I would like to hear from our County Counsel, and then Kathy can . . .

Miller11 Does he (Counsel) represent her, or the Board?

Griffiths No, he represents the Board, and the organization, not HER.

Unk. male. We heard his allegation, through the letter.

Podsedley Lets find out what happened. If it happened.

Griffiths Well, whats the big rush? (A lot of audience cross-talk, dissatisfaction about already havingcondemned Kathy.) This isnt a court of law, so I dont think its possible to determine that, but,could I hear the legal obligations of the District?

Wright12

We received three different complaints arising out of Ms. Otermats review of those records onWednesday, August 8, 2012. And so, in looking at what the employees saw, it gave me concern,because of potential legal liability. The allegations were that she copied at least one document,possibly more, and that she was transcribing information from these documents. And when I talkedto Hank about the kind of information thats included in these documents, theres social security

numbers, theres health information. So we could possibility have issues. Theres personalinformation such as if someones account hasa liens filed on it and things like that. Theres a lot ofvery personal information, some of the information of which were required by law to keepconfidential, keep private. We have a duty to keep that information confidential because of thewhole identity theft issue. California is one of the states that has specific laws that govern that andrequire us to keep that kind of information protected. So I wrote a letter. The allegations came in onThursday.13 I was out on Friday. On Monday I sent Ms. Otermat a letter asking for an explanation ofwhat happened. What did she take? Send me a copy of what records you copied. Send me a copy ofwhat you transcribed, so that we could try and assess the situation and how serious it was. Two dayslater I received a response saying Its going to take me a while to gather that information. Iresponded back saying This is very important information. We need to try and get it as quickly as

possible. A whole week goes by andwe still havent received any information. Then it wasdetermined that we need to have a Special Meeting to try and address this, to consider the issue ofproviding LifeLock and some of these other things, because this is the kind of thing that you have toact quickly on. Unfortunately I never received a response back on what information was taken. I stillhave not received a response back on what information was taken. If we had received a responseback on what information was taken, then we might have taken a different course of conduct, and itmay have been that this Board action wasnt necessary. But not having received a response, we haveto assume the worst, that there was some kind of breach. If she was transcribing information andtaking pictures of information that has social security numbers, then we are duty bound under theCode to take appropriate action to try and prevent that breach, because even though obviously certain


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confidential employees and members will have access to that information in performing their dutiessometimes they have to see that information - that information should never leave the District office,and it certainly shouldnt be transcribed into a computer or something like that. So thats the concern.And not having received a response, not knowing how serious the breach was, we decided we neededto schedule a Special Meeting so that the Board could take appropriate action, and to provide theemployees with LifeLock or some other protection. At this point you have to sort of assume theworst, that confidential information was taken. So thats part of what were trying to assess right

now. The information that I asked for was: What information was taken? Please provide me with acopy. Provide me with a copy of what you transcribed. Provide me with a copy of what youphotographed. Provide me with a copy of what you have ever transcribed or photographed inreviewing backup information as the District Treasurer, so that we can have some kind of a record ofall the information thats ever been transcribed or copied in that capacity. I guess we can hear and geta response back as far as what information it was. I did not receive a response last week. And as itcame into a new week we felt that time was important and something had to happen, and so wedecided to schedule a Special Meeting to address the issue.

Griffiths OK. Thanks. Kathy, take it away.

Otermat

(Passes out documents) Please share if theres not enough. On August 10

th

I came in to sign a fewchecks as Treasurer of GDPUD. The previous day was a Board Meeting, and I understand BonnieNeeley signed the book that day. So there was a very few amount ofchecks, Im guessing, five orsix. I dont remember. I have never ever either copied, typed, written or photographed anyconfidential employee information, nor passed on or kept such information. Period. I have neverasked for personnel backup. When I became Treasurer, Mary Pat provided me with backup forsigning each check. And if there wasnt an invoice of something I would say Theres no backupand she would politely and quickly give me the invoice or the bill so that I could match the checkamount with the invoice of the bill. On August 10th Bill Wright is correct. I took ONE photograph.The photograph I took was of the notations of a PG&E bill that Mary Pat said was each PG&E bill.Why did I take a picture? Because I noticed that ALT is 3 times the amount of power at WaltonLake. And for future analysis I wanted to find out why, and especially because were building a new

treatment plant, with possibly some power efficiency that we could look into. This is the one andonly photo I took. I never know if the photograph Im going to take is going to be clearly written, soI quickly put some notes into my IPad. And these are the notes transcribed from my IPad. I welcomean investigation, because this is exactly what I put in my IPad. So I typed these totals for the PG&Ebills for Walton Lake and Auburn Lake Trails. And as I was going through the stack of bills, one ofthe things I noticed is, in the past when Hank White has provided salary history for all employees, heprovides it by name. And I have this on my website14. And many people in this room have heard mesay, not in the Board Room, it bothers me that theres names on here. I saw a place where there werenames and their positions. So this is the next set of notes I took. For example, District Operator oneBarbour. (Several words unclear) positions instead of their names. That was the reason for thosenotes. On Calpers theres more detail in the backup than there is in the Board packet. I should know

at the back of my hand how many people are on which plan, which employees, and how much ourannual total payments are from the District from the employees and be able to compare it. So thatswhy I took these notes. And then I just emailed them to me from my IPad. So those are those notes.When Mr. Wright sent me the first emailand the last section is actually the historical timeline ofwhat has happened. So on August 10th I came in to sign (unclear) checksand it tells exactly the onephoto I took and the notes I provided you. Correction: the 8th. The next communication I receivedwas from Bill Wright on August 14 th. I believe I may be the only Board Member with a full-time dayob, and last week was very very busy, morning until late at night. So Bill sent me the letter, and as Itell you, I know I NEVER have taken any personal employee information from here, I wasntconcerned about that. I was more concerned about the process. Shouldnt it have come from the


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Board President? Thats one of the reasons I ran. Theres a lack of policies and procedures here. SoI get this email from Bill Wright saying that he received several employee complaints. There weretwo employees in the room, plus I believe a summer hire in the room when I was there. And I heardMary Pats voice and I heard Hanks voice. I cant remember, but it was a pretty quick in and out. I

dont recall ever seeing Hankor Mary Pat walking through. So when Bill sent this to me I thoughtHere is another glaring example of lack of procedures and policies, how to handle Board

complaints. If you look at the Board Code of Ethics it doesnt really follow that. It doesnt follow

the Union grievance procedures. So what kind of procedures are documented to handle somethinglike this? And thats, having a busy work week, thats why I needed some time. I responded to Bill

on the 16thsaying I wanted to let you know I received your email. It raises several issues for me andI need to take the time to respond. The issues were lack of policies and procedures, including how to

handle an employee complaint. On the next day I sent an email to Bill Wright asking him to pleaseprovide me a copy of each employee complaint so I can respond properly. I believe as an attorney hewould believe it Due Process to fail to see what your allegations are before youre required torespond. And I have shown this to other attorneys that do represent other water districts. I receivedno response at all from Mr. Wright on my request for a copy of the complaints.

Wright Yes, you did.15

Otermat (resumes after puzzled response to Wright) On the 19th Ray Griffiths sent an email to all Directorsconcerning a meeting on August 21stsomewhere between 9am and 5pm. Does anyone haveconflicts on the day, and if so, when? Again, I believe Im the only Board Director that has a more

than full-time day job.

R. Beck16

(interrupting Kathy) We dont care about your full-time job.

Otermat (Appealed to President to please control.) I guess you dont want to.

Griffiths Kathy, dont put words in my mouth. Thank you.

GriffithsIf you want to sit here and run the meeting you can if youre elected to do that, but otherwise youre aBoard Member. And to say that Im guilty of not running the Board, well, guess what? Sometimestheres outbursts, and theres nothing I can do about it. Sorry, but youre going to have to live with it,ust like I live with it. Sometimes the audience isnt completely under control. If you can figure outa way to do that, I would like to know. Im sure other Board Presidents would like to know - how tokeep the audience from ever uttering something that is . . . Lets end it right there. Go ahead.

Otermat Well usually when they . . . (cross talk) Alright, I got another email from Ray Griffiths saying toschedule between 10am and 12 on Tuesday today. Topic will be response to the Union letterregarding confidential security breakdown. I responded to Ray that during my time as a BoardMember there has never been a Special Meeting held during the day. And he knew at that time that Ihad a full-time day job and would not be able to attend, should it be held during the day. I was

actually very pleased to find out that yesterday that Hank White sent an email saying that the SpecialMeeting schedule had been changed to 6pm. When I got the Board packet for the meeting it was thevery very first time I saw the Union letter, even though it was dated August 13th. Someone couldeasily have forwarded that to me, but I received it in the Board packet like everyone else.

Griffiths? (interruption) (Griffiths?) Lets get to the point. (Neeley) Its very difficult to hear when you aremaking comments. If everyone could speak it would make it easier.

West17

And it would be appropriate for the President to say something.


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Otermat This matter, being private in nature, it should have been investigated before being distributed to thegeneral public. If this had been an employee, do you think this letter would have been at theGeorgetown Post Office posted by the Board of the Clerk, GM Hank White, or the Garden ValleyPost Office, by the Board of the Clerk, Hank White? Which says: It has been brought to ourattention that Ms. Otermat in her capacity TOOK photographsthis isntallegedlythis is aFACT that they are mistakenly writing. The allegations against me are potentially serious, and even

though I completely dispute these claims, it is impossible to unring the bell, as they say. In otherwords, once these allegations are made in public, even when proving them fails, as I know they will,restoring my reputation later is difficult, at best. To ensure the Board members have the right andobligation to investigate this, I absolutely encourage these investigations. I encourage a fact-findinginformation, not only on the allegations, but also on the PROCESS. Some employees made falseallegations which they cannot prove. What happens to them? What happens to a Board President anda General Manager and Legal Counsel who choose to ignore the possibility that I am completelyinnocent of these allegations? That is another investigation I would like. I did my timeline. Whenwere conversations started between employees? Employees to the General Manager? GeneralManager to the Legal Counsel and the Board President? Where is the process documented on this ishow we handle a complaint against a Board member? We put it in public places, post offices, andthen at the public meeting is the only time a that Board member is allowed to address these

allegations. Is that the correct way it should be done?

Neeley Kathy, we dont have a policy about correcting a board member a bout this kind of thing becauseweve never had a board member who created a security breach. And I dont think distracting us withyour too much work or policy, or we dont have this or we dont have that, none of it changes the

fact that employees claim they saw you do something which was serious and concerned them all.

Otermat Can the employees prove that? I know they cant, because the one picture Mr. Wright said I took isthe one of the PG&E notes. No one here is giving me the benefit of the doubt. Bonnie Neeley, Iswear on my mothers grave, I have NEVER taken any confidential employee information from this

building or any other place it could be. I have asked Whats the motivation for the employees

involved in the complaint? Whats the motivation for the General Counsel and the General Managerfor proceeding with these? Next month at our regular Board Meeting I do have agenda items onfalse statements made by the General Manager. But I have backup. I have backup for these. Couldthat be one reason why this was so rushed that I just got notice yesterday at 2:30 that there would be apublic meeting today? What is the penalty for false accusations against a Director? Or how aboutharassment of a Director? Ive never stated these in public, but there have been false complaintsabout my property sent to the El Dorado County Planning Commission. I have had raw meat throwninto my car on hot summer days. All this started once the recall started. Is it a coincidence? Perhaps.What qualifies as a legitimate complaint? These are questions that I hope not onlyas Ive said, Iwelcome the investigation regarding these allegations, but I also request that the Board also do aninvestigation as to the whole process, how it got to the one day where I signed checks in my usualcapacity, the same backup I never asked for anything special. I took the picture of the PG&E bill. I

presume that perhaps some employees got together and said Ah, she took a picture! and they wentback and said Oh look, theres social security numbers. I ignore social security numbers. As Ivesaid, I welcome the investigation. I welcome anyone looking at my IPhone, my IPad. They will findnothing. Thank you.

Griffiths OK, its kind of like (chuckle) proving a negative, which is pretty much impossible, and Im certainthat this Board does not have the capacity to actually do an investigation. And in any case the law, iftheres an issue with the law, I think its between the District, not with an individual Director. I thinkthe liability is to the District. (Wright: Correct) Any individual has no liability, and you know I were probably not going to do an investigation cause the GDPUD Board does not have police


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powers, so we cant break into someones house and search it. With this kind of information howwould we search for it anyway? I dont know how to do it. I would feel incompetent doing it. So I

guess the question is, Does the GDPUD Board have an obligation to take an action on theallegations?

Wright I just want to say, first of all, that the allegations, Kathy, are in fact true. The allegations were thatyou were transcribing information from the backup data and photographingat least one photograph.

Otermat Of the PG&E . . .

Wright Thats what the allegations were. The employees said that they didnt know what the informationwas. So it would have been very helpful if, when you first responded to me where you said, I wantto let you know that Ive received your email. It raises several issues that I need to take time torespond to. I will respond in a few days, as this week has been extremely busy. It would have been

very helpful if you had said, I did not take any personal confidential employee information. You

did not say that. Your email to me raised a red flag. That, to me, was a problem. She didnt deny theallegations in my letter. The letter did not say . . . The letter said that you were allegedly, you know,that you may have taken, OK? We didnt KNOW what you took. We knew that you weretranscribing information. We knew that there were social security numbers and other privateconfidential information contained within that data. We didnt know. So you didnt respond to that.

You just said Its going to take me a while to getback to you. That to me says to mewhat? - thisis complicated. There was some kind of information that was taken, and that information, we dont

know exactly what it is. She is not denying that it was confidential information. So my response wasthen, its important that we get your response ASAP as the employees are very concerned. And thenyou asked me to forward you a copy of the employees complaint. Well the employees complaints

were really irrelevant at that point in time. The employee complaints raised the issue thatinformation was being transcribed. It was then up to the District to try and find out what informationwas transcribed, which they did by sending you a letter asking you to explain what that informationwas. We never got that. Then I sent another one that says, You need to respond to my letter and theissues raised in my letter and you need to do it immediately. As Counsel for the District Im asking

you to respond to the allegations that you copied their personal information. The District needs toknow what information you copied on the 8th and what information you have copied in the past. So,that was the email chain. Now I agree, I dont think the District is going to launch a full big

investigation. Its not worth the time and effort. Youre not going to hire an investigator. Frankly Iwouldnt recommend that you go out and spend that kind of time and effort and money to do it. I do

think that we should still, as part of the investigation - you welcome an investigation - well lets getyour response to the issues raised in my letter in writing.

Otermat I believe . . .

Wright Well, we still dont have the past information. Lets find out what all the information is that youtranscribed then. If you could submit it and say that this is the information that I transcribed, you

know, whatever information you transcribed in the past, or items youve copied in the past in thatfunction. So if you would respond to my letter then thats a first step and we could address where togo from there. And then I think its up to the Board to consider what other actions you might want totake, if you feel the need to provide LifeLock or something.

White If I could just make a quick comment. When the Board considers the investigation, they should alsoknow the copy of the PG&E invoice that was provided that day was not provided as a portion of thebackup that was provided the day the checks were signed. This particular invoice was paid the daybefore18, on the Board meeting, so this check was already mailed, in the mail. What was provided


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was documentation for a payment to American Family Life Insurance, the Calif. State DisbursementUnit, Franchise Tax Board, ICMA, Local 39, and PERS. So there was no information that wouldhave been available for a picture on the 8 th when Director Otermat . . .

Otermat How would I have got that picture, since I wasnt even here on the 7 th? How would I have taken thatpicture, Mr. Wright. Do you guys make copies of the checks before you mail them to see signatureline on the checks? Can we see the copies of the PG&E bill?

White Im stating to the Board the fact that this was not provided to you on the 8 th when you were heresigning checks.

Otermat It was, because I took it. How else could I have gotten access to that picture that I took, Mr. Wright?This is a very important question. How could I have gotten access to this PG&E photo? There aretwo ways to prove it. Copy of the signature line from the bank, certified, is probably the best way.My signature will be on that check to PG&E. Otherwise, this isnt something I could have whipped

out the air. This was here when I signed the checks.

White This check was written on . . .

Otermat It may have been written, but it was signed by me on that date. It would be very easy to get acertified copy from the bank. Very very easy. And I encourage you to do that, please. Because that,again, is false information provided by the General Manager. It was there in front of me, its on myICamera (with photos before and after), which I cannot change the time sequence.

Neeley Kathy, youre smart enough to probably create anything you want.

Otermat Of course!

Griffiths OK, we have another Board Member that wants to . . . Well get comments from everybody . . . Oh, Ican see this lasting hours and hours . . . OK.

Krizl Im saving my comments for later, but I think weve heard a little bit about the procedural aspects of

this, some of the background of this. Weve heard Kathys story. I thinkwe ought to give theemployees that witnessed this an opportunity to say what they have to say so that we can clearly getboth sides of this. They were the ones that saw it, so . . .

Griffiths If there is anyone that would like to comment that would be fine.

Barron19

Im Dolores Barron and Ive been working for the Water District for over 22 years. I do payroll, andIve done payroll. I provide the backup for her. There was no PG&E bill in there. It was only

payroll deduction checks. So where you got it, you had it from somewhere else, cause it wasnt from

me.

Otermat I cant even walk past the reception desk. How could I have gotten access to that?

Barron I dont know how you got it, but you didnt get it from me, and Im the one that called you to come inand sign those checks and gave you the backup. And I put it on the desk and had you sit right there.

Otermat And I never moved from there.

Barron Then you took a picture of something else.


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Beck Kathy, youve come in and taken pictures of Verizon bills and all kinds of things on other days. Youknow, that could have been from any date you were in here. The documentation doesnt lie. Thatwas not in the paperwork that day.

Otermat The documentation will lie if you get a certified copy from the bank on the signature line of thatcheck.

Griffiths OK. Great. This is getting more and more confusing to me, but . . .

Krizl I wanted to follow up on my comment a minute ago. I dont know if theres . . . I know theres been

some testimony put together by a handful of employees that witnessed this, and I dont know ifsomebody wants to read that into the record. I think thats important.

Griffiths I think we need to hear all of it and then well have some discussion, and then have the opportunityfor the public to participate.

Neeley This is what you gave Hank?

Beck20

The day that it happened and we talked to Hank and Mary Pat right away because we were concernedabout the information that was in that paperwork, I didnt even know at first what the informationwas. We just knew that she was spending a lot of time. She wasnt in and out of here in five minutes

like she usually is when she comes in and signs some checks. She spent approximately a half an hourin here transcribing into her computer and flipping pages as she went. Where I got really stressed isafter she left and Dolly and I both looked at each other and I said What was all that stuff? And shesaid, That was all the employees private information. Things that Mary Pat, Hank and Dolly are

only able to see that we keep in lock and key. Youve come in and signed checks many times beforeand have been in and out of here in five minutes. Why did you find it necessary to bring in a cameraand your laptop and transcribe page after page into your laptop? I have personally kept (unclear).Hank, after it happened, asked all three of us to write a statement, separate from each other and to nottalk to each other and get any opinions from each other. We each transcribed separately from each

other what we saw that day.

Otermat Who was the third person? I know you and Dolores . . .

Griffiths Kathy, let her make her statement.

Neeley Maybe shes afraid to say who she is.

Beck STATEMENT21: Kathy Otermat came in today to sign checks and I am extremely concerned about

what I witnessed. As she was signing checks she was taking pictures of invoices and typing

information into her computer. She spent a considerable amount of time typing and taking pictures

that had sensitive employee information on it.

She is given support with the checks attached so why is it necessary to put that information on her

computer and leave the building with it? I have personally been a witness to her leaving behind that

very same computer and coming back much later on in the day looking for it! Because of her

misplacing the laptop already, I question the security of the GDPUD employees information and I am

upset that she would put our information at risk!

I want to know if this is legal? From my years in banking, I know how devastating it can be if

someone gets a hold of sensitive information like social security numbers financially and personally.

Fraud can have horrific long lasting consequences to a persons life.


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As a Director of GDPUD I understand that she needs to see the information because she is signing

the checks. But I am concerned that what she did today has the ability to compromise the employees

of this District which could have long lasting consequences.

Beck So my question goes back to you, Kathy, many times youve come in and signed those same checks.That day you spent over a half an hour typing stuff into your computer and taking pictures. Howwere we to know what information that you took out of here when all of that stuff is confidential

employee information? You know, you say youre taking a picture of documentation that wasnteven there. So that is just crazy to me. But then you say its because you were wanting to ask thequestions later about it. You have five employees at your fingertips. One being Dolores, who wasright there, who gave you the support, and the checks to be able to ask that question, or you coulddemand to see Mary Pat or Hank and ask that information. You never once asked anybodyinformation. Why is it necessary to take pictures of that? (Considerable intermittent audiencedisquiet) Youre correct about your statement that this is really serious. It is really serious. Itsreally serious to us. You affected our lives outside of this District by having to protect our personalinformation because you wouldnt come forward to tell anybody what you took. Is there is a penaltyfor a Director for lying and not telling the truth? Thats what I want to know.

Otermat

I need to respond to these questions. (Big sigh from chairman) I am providing honest answers.Stephanie, I sit in the middle and I sign checks. Dolores is here, Stephanie is here. If they had anyconcern while I was taking that one photograph or taking notes you could have also asked me,Excuse me. Do you mind if I ask for your transcribing? Any time.

Neeley (Interjection) An employee doesnt challenge a Board member.

Otermat (Continues) As I said, I never took any, and you cannot prove it. I would welcome it if they want tolook on my camera for that one photo or on my computer. Please let me talk. I let you speak. Youshut me off. (Interrupted throughout) Please let me talk. You also say computer. I did not come inwith my computer. I came in with my IPad. An IPad is not a computer. Please let me finish. I letyou finish, Stephanie, please. Please will you let me finish?

Beck Its really difficult to sit here and listen to you, Kathy, because . . .

Otermat Its very difficult for me, but I let you speak. Thank you. An IPad, the keyboard is not a keyboard.Its like typing ugh ugh ugh

Griffiths Lets not get into the details, cause I dont care and I dont know.

Otermat Typing on my IPad takes longer than usual and you could verify that with anyone who owns an IPad.

(Significant disruption and shouting throughout Kathys input)

Miller Can you take control of the employees and the audience, please? Tell everybody to shut up and lether be heard. (More chaotic frustration - back and forth.)

Beck Our private information that you took out of this building . . .

Otermat I never took it . . . For the record, I have never taken it. You can never prove it, because I have nevertaken it. (More of the chaotic you did/I didnt) Im not that tech savvy that . . .

Griffiths Does anyone else on the Board have something that they would like to add to this? Cause this he


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said/she said, whatever, is not working . . . We really dont know. We have no way of proving it.

Otermat Mr. President, a certified copy of that Wells Fargo check, or whatever, could say . . .

Griffiths It wouldnt say anything to me.

Otermat It would say that I . . .

Griffiths It will not prove anything to me.

Otermat Does it not make logic that if I signed the check that I would have seen backup?

Neeley Mr. President, I move that since we cant prove one way or another, or havent been able or wont, orwhatever words you want to use, I move that at least for the short term we remove Kathy Otermat asTreasurer until we further have done whatever and that we remove her from any signature activity shemay have as a Board member.

Griffiths Wevehad a motion, we havent had a second.

Krizl Ill second.

Griffiths Its been moved and seconded. Now, we can have discussion. Well start with Dale, then . . .

Miller Excuse me, I was called on. Thank you. Ive been waiting. The whole process here has been wayout of whack. (Griffiths: Youre right about that.) You started off, and immediately the letters thatIm seeing here arent allegations. They say TOOK photographs, pictures of documents containingemployee security information, yada yada yada. Stephanie says that theres no way of knowing, soinstead they assumed. This has been . . . youve got employees obviously that do not like Kathy.Youve got to take that into consideration.

Griffiths And youve got to take into consideration that Kathy probably does not like those . . . you kn ow. And

who had their hands on sensitive information? Did the employees, or did Kathy?

Miller So you take that into consideration. When youve had past incidents, because you have no policy on

how to proceed with something like this. In past youve already got where youve had a GeneralManager caught taking equipment home and using . . . whatever. Youve had a Board member that

was taking ditch water. All of this is personnel issues and was done behind closed doors to thesatisfaction of the Board, and they made a decision, and they took care of their personnel. Why is thisone incident being blown so far out of proportion? I understand security. But I also understand theprocess. If I were Kathy Id be scared shitless, and Id be talking with lawyers about what Im

supposed to say, because with whats been going on, I dont think Im going to get a fair shake. I

dont think Kathy feels shes going to get a fair shake. So you come in here. You knew Bonnie was

going to say take Kathy off as Treasurer. You knew thats happening. So this was a foregoneconclusion. Bill, you do your job. You do the best you can. But youre not the Board. When theUnion goes to Bill for decisions that the Board should be making, and Im following what you gaveus today - Oh I didnt find out until after Bill emailed us about this, is the time frame correct?Monday or something, way after, and decisions were being made to have these meetings, to haveKathy respond and so on. I dont disagree that a simple Ididnt take any pictures of anything, socialsecurity or whatever would have helped a lot. But lacking that, if Im being accused of what theyresaying in here, Im going, Who the heck do I talk to? So there are times when a delay would beappropriate while I get my information about where I stand. This has been a foregone conclusion.Some of the Board I think knew from the get-go what they wanted to happen, what the outcome was.


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I know that some of the employees, because the recall didnt go through, are looking for other issues.(background snickering) Theres assumptions here. Theres assumptions that because I spent somuch time with the information I must be doing something wrong. And the Board is essentiallyagreeing to that and adding to that. So my question would be, following this, are you guys going toput any process together for future reference so that this doesnt happen again? And personnel issuesare personnel issues. Even when Hank was being questioned on something several months ago Ispoke up for him and said, This is personnel. This should be behind closed doors. You deal withyour personnel and your employees . . . its not something that goes into the paper, just because, untilwe figure out whats going on.

Wright If the Brown Act allowed us to address this in closed session we would of. It does not. A Boardmember is not an employee. Its very specific. You do not discuss something like this in closedsession.

Unk male What are you referencing on that, Bill?

Wright The Brown Act, Govt Code 900 and following. The Codes very clear. No questions.

Miller Could you give me the number please?

Wright I will. I dont have it.

Griffiths Do a search on the Brown Act and it will pull it up.

Bliss22

What I wanted to say was that you asked for the employees statements and we have not heard theemployees statements. Weve heard one employee statement. I thought that was important to do

before community discussion, but I was rudely interrupted. So I would still like to hear the otheremployees. We still havent heard them, and I think that was important to hear before we even

opened it up to the public speaking. Because Im here and you called on me, and Im afraid Im notgoing to have any other time to speak so Ill say what I wanted to say. What he has talked about is

understandable. If I was her Id be scared. I wouldnt use the language he used, but I would beworried and scared about what was going on. That email to him, to Bill Wright, did not state anyfear. What he read to us about what your comments wereit didnt show fear, it didnt show the factthat maybe I wantyou know, Im feeling nervous, that youre trying to sabotage me, and I want totalk to an attorney before I make any comments. Those type of things would show fear. Thirteendays later, now, from today, from the 8thto today is 13 days. So 13 days later theyre gettinginformation. 13 days . . .

Otermat They didnt ask me for information 13 days ago.

Bliss What I am saying, from now or . . . fine. From the 12th . . . So maybe not the 13th .

Otermat The 14th

Bliss Several days have gone by, and you have not provided any information, which is absolutelyunacceptable. The other thing I want you to know is I had a sit down conversation with the DistrictAttorney of El Dorado County today, and Vern stated to me that there is no way that any employee ofthe county or the state or the federalanybody that would do something like this would get awaywith it. No way. They would be fired immediately. They would be removed from the premises, andIm assuming which I dont know but Im assuming - Stephanie, you have said that theres threeemployees that have access to this informationif those three employees were to have done whatwas done on the 8 th - taking pictures, transcribe information - would they or would they not be


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removed from employment? Would there be an employment issue coming up? If these employeestook information and left this building with private information, would they not be dismissed fromtheir employment here? At least temporarily.

White There would be a very serious employee issue.

Bliss And yet this doesnt seem to be serious to some people. And I dont understand that at all. When we

talk about our county, our state, our federal governmentthose people would immediately call forsomething to be done. The other thing that was stated from Vern, our District Attorney, is no, it is notan illegal action as of yet; however, who knows what might happen? And as soon as somethinghappens, it is going to go back to the fact that possible information was taken, and then there will be acriminal action done. If any of these employees information has gone out there, there will be acriminal action done. And I dont understand how you can come back several days later and then justsay, Oh, this was it. And we all laughed at the fact that you could look at your IPod, or your IPador your IPhone or whatever Ithing you might have and not know that you can delete anything off ofthere that you wanted to delete. That just does not make sense to me. And I had a question too. Iwrote downthe employees said computer, you said IPad. What was that? Which obviously, thatwent over. The other thing Ive written down is that I have personally, in Board meetings over the

last 18 months that Ive been coming to, have seen lies from you, Director Otermat. I have seen itand I have called you on it. From the beginning of the meeting to the end of the meeting, theresdiscretion (sic) and theres things thats untrue. What you have said at the beginning of the meeting

to what you have said at the end of the meeting, and I have stood up, and I have commented: Wait aminute, at the beginning of the meeting you said this, and now youre saying this? So I have seenuntruths in a matter of a four-hour time period. And if thats the case in a Board Meeting, then howin the world should anybody trust what you have said? And I absolutely agree with Mr. Wright whenhe said, Its not an issue of what you took or when you took it or anything else. The fact of it is thatyou took a picture. You took information. I dont care what it was. I dont care about that at thispoint. You did it. And if anybody else were to have taken pictures or transcribed information theywould be terminated. (Audience applause) And I still would like to hear from any other employeesbefore any public comment. . . .

Otermat Can I respond? Michelle, you said, If anyone had done those things. And I, for the record, startedthis meeting saying I have never taken any confidential employee information. And that is the truth.

Bliss My response to that, because youre talking to me, is how in the world co uld we believe you on whatyou did and didnt take? You did take a picture. Period. That is not OK. That is against anythingthat any district, state, government, any government entity believes in. You took a picture. Period. Itdoesnt matter what you took a picture of. The fact of it is that you took a picture. You were lookingat personal information. There was personal information on the table. You could have taken apicture of Stephanie, for crying out loud. But the fact that you had personal information on the deskand you took a pictureI dont care what the picture was. Thats unacceptable. And its absolutelynot OK for a Director to do that. Its not OK for an employee to do that.

Otermat Now I can speak, OK? I took a picture. Mr. White has created a hostile environment for me when Icome in here. (Audience uproardismissive laughter) Isnt that true, that you are very good friendswith Mr. White and his wife?

Bliss That has NOTHING to do with it. Youre the only Board Member that has a full-time job. Thosethings dont matter, Kathy. They dont matter. Im good friends with Director McCleans son. I

know who he is. We grew up together. Were friends. Just because I have a friend of hers doesnt

mean that I might agree with everything. Just because I might know Bonnie Neeley doesnt mean


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that I have to agree with everything she says. And just like, if Im friends with Hank, I dont have toagree with everything he tells me. I have my own brain, and I have my own education to figurethings out.

Neeley Kathy, ifyoure photographing us, have you informed us of that?

Otermat Its part of the Brown Act. Its allowed. You should read the Brown Act.

Neeley And you dont have the courtesy to say, Ill be photographing you?

Otermat Ive done it since my first Board meeting, Bonnie.

Neeley From Day One you never said, Folks, Id like to do this.

Otermat Its part of the Brown Act. Its totally allowed. Any member of the public or of the Board . . .

Neeley Im talking about the courtesy of informing . . .

Otermat For 18 months I come in every Board meeting with a camera.

Griffiths OK, lets let the public continue then well take all this up.

Podsedly I hope new people are here that never been here before, because obviously we have two differentsides, and theres an election coming up, so this is very interesting how this is playing out. You haveall these allegations and thingswell, he said / she said. You know, if I had my importantinformation sitting in front of somebody and theyre taking pictures, Id get up there if they weresitting there and say, What are you doing? Id say, What are you doing? And take that away if I

was that concerned. But, no, none of that happened. I mean this is really normal for certain peoplein the room, so it doesnt surprise me, but new people here that may have come here to see what isgoing on need to see how slanted it is and how something can be made out of nothing. What I wouldrecommend, that if these people couldnt have taken on their own initiative to stop her from doing

what she was doing if they thought it was wrong at the time, just pay for that security thing. TheDistrict wastes lots of money. You know, $400 dinners, things like that (audience uproar and denial).Why not just spend the money and protect the employees and get it over with?

R. Beck Why not have Otermat pay?

Podsedly Youre not going to prove anything. New people, you have to see whats going on.

Griffiths I hope this isnt representative of the way things work around here, but . . .

Bliss I thought we were going to hear from the employees.

Podsedly (continuing after sundry interruptions) So that would be my recommendation. And that way . . .

Griffiths I agree with you, as it so happens, but thats kind of neither here nor there.

Podsedly So new people, listen to whats going on.

Griffiths Yes, Maam.

Hand23

Hi, my name is Kayla. And, Kathy, though Im not officially an employee, I am the summer helper,


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but the fact is I was there. I saw what happened, just like everybody else.

Otermat How many photos did I take?

Hand You took one photo. But what was that photo? I dont know. I do want to make a couple commentsbefore I read my statement. One thing I want to know isyoure coming into this office to signchecks. Why do you need a camera? Why do you need your laptop to record information if youre

ust coming in here to sign checks?

Otermat So I can keep in touch with my business.

Hand Well that has never made sense to me to this day. Another thing is, you say when you come in hereMr. White makes it a hostile environment for you. OK, what I see when you come in here, you sitnext to me, you have your own desk, your own chair, everything at that you request is very neatly puton the table for you, and everyone is nice to you when you come in. I do not see how that is hostilewhatsoever.

Otermat You dont recall when I came in I asked Dolores Were checks signed yesterday? Is that all thechecks? I asked Dolores. You dont remember Stephanie Beck, who I did not ask the question, say

They were signed yesterday, you know that. You dont remember that?

Wright (Considerable audience cross-talk) The speakers at the podium should be allowed to speak. Theyshouldnt be allowed to ask questions. And others shouldnt be allowed to ask them questions.

Griffiths I agree. So just stick to your statement and well go from there.

Hand STATEMENT24: Dear Mr. White, On Wednesday August 8th, 2012, Director Ms. Kathy Othermat(sic) came in to GDPUD to review papers and sign checks. She was here for about 30 mins-45 mins.

In that peiod (sic) of time she was taking pictures of and writing down the confindential ( sic)information of the business and its employees. After she was done with that she hurryed ( sic) out ofthe office. I feel that what she did was wrong, that she took advantage of her postion ( sic) to get

ersonal information. i (sic) am very uneasy about her having everybodys (sic) personal information.There is no reason she would need to know this information on the employees. Her being on the

board of directors, we should be able to trust her and not have to be conserned ( sic) with whats (sic)shes (sic) going to do. If there is anything that can be done about this incident, please let me know.Thats my statement, and . . .

Griffiths Thank you. Anyone else in the public like to . . . ?

Barron STATEMENT25: Kathy Otermat came in to sign payroll checks today. She requires backup detailrior to signing any checks and I agree, but this time I noticed that she was inputting personal

information from the back up detail into her laptop. (It wasnt this computer. It was a little black

one. And it did have a keyboard. It didnt have touch . . .26

)As I watched her sign checks, she did not seem interested in the AFLAC Invoice, but after she signed

a couple of checks I noticed that she had activated her phone and took a picture. Im not sure of what

because she did pick up her phone from the table, but heard the phone take a picture while she was

looking at the ICMA Statement. She then opened up her laptop and started typing a list of possibly

the names of employees in the Union from the spreadsheet which also has the employees Social

Security Numbers and then proceeded to type in the figures on the PERS Remittance Form into her

computer.

I feel that this is not necessary or professional behavior for a Director to take personal information


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that should not leave the premises due to the privacy of District personnel. If that information was

ut on her website it could be used to commit fraud in the wrong hands.

Griffiths Thank you. Mike, go ahead.

Cooper27

This has been an interesting meeting. Theres a couple people I agreed with and a whole bunch ofpeople I havent agreed with. I think this episode has been flawed from the beginning in the nature of

the investigation that was conducted. Now Im not faulting Hank or any of the employees. I thinkwhat they did follows standard procedure for conducting an investigation. However, they do not haveall the tools available to them that a professional investigator has. This should have been turned overto a professional investigator. This is a serious enough offense, if true, that should be looked at by aprofessional who knows all the ins and outs of how people do and dont keep information. Peoplemay THINK they erase information from their computer, but in fact there are ways to retrieve thatinformation. Thats number one. The same is true of a camera. The chip that goes into a camera isvery similar to the chip that goes into a computer. OK, the chip thats in an IPod is the same chip

thats in that computer or in any other Apple computer. OK, those chips have a very long memory.So, yes, information can be extracted from them, even if people think theyve erased the information.However, what should have been done, and what I have done, with employees in similar situations is

you sequester the computer, number one. You sequester the camera, number two, so that the personCANT erase data. That wasnt done. Theres been sufficient time elapsed, that computer could havegone to somebody who CAN erase any traces of data. That phone could have gone to somebody whocan do the same thing. You simply replace the chip and you take the old chip out and you destroy it.Its a relatively simple process, but not everybody knows how to do it. Second of all, there should betwo concurrent investigations going. One, conducted on a legal basis, because you have potentially acrime that has been committed. Has somebody talked to the DA? They jump all over this kind ofstuff. However, their arena is the courtroom, which requires a certain level of evidencebeyond areasonable doubt. The second prong of the investigation does not involve the legal authorities. Itsconducted in-house, and it does NOT require a preponderance of evidence. Excuse me. It doesrequire a preponderance of evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt. Preponderance of evidence isdefined as anything more than 50%. So you now have before you a flawed situation. What do you do

to remedy that? Well, you could go back to square one, but I dont think youre going to be verysuccessful, because too much time has elapsed. What I have heard here tonight leaves little or nodoubt in my mind what occurred. Now, what was the purpose of photographing any information? Ihave pondered this since yesterday, having sat in the Board, having been the Treasurer. I cannot thinkof one legitimate, rational or sane reason why you would want to or photograph any information onthe checks that you sign. That information is readily available to you all the time. Theres no reason

to take it home. And Imleft with a final assumption of, its being taken for some other reason. Andwhatever that reason is, doesnt matter, youve got a problem, youve got a serious problem. Now Iwill leave you with this. You are either going to be part of the solution ofthat problem, or youregoing to be part of the problem. Thats the only two choices youve got.

Griffiths Thank you. Yes, sir.

West My name is Paul West and I live in Greenwood. Sounds like were not going to reach a conclusion asto whether she did something correctly or incorrectly, for all the reasons the gentleman just stated.This business about breach, was the breach taking a picture, or was it taking a picture away from thebuilding? What was the exact breach?

Wright Well, the breach would be taking the picture and removing it from the office.

West Any picture? (Kathy also trying to ask a question)


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Wright A picture that involved confidential information.

West So were never going to know that.

Wright Correct (another male also says correct)

West Its pretty tough to come to a conclusion to convict somebody if were never going to know if

anything was done wrong. I suggest that theres nothing you can do about it now. I think in future

if you suspect someones doing something then you need to watch them more carefully. You need totake pictures of the person taking pictures. You have to have some kind of evidence to convictsomebody.

Griffiths Thank you. In the back, and then . . . youre next.

Snelling28

Hi, the namesPat Snelling, and Im quite concerned about this incident. So I talked to Ed, Ed Neff,the County Counsel. I said, If I was on the Board, what would I do? This is very frightening to me.And he said that he couldnt give me legal advice, but this is the procedures that should have beentaken. What IS the procedure, thats what he told me, is to ask you, what is the procedure? If there is

a question about something that you have to write a check for, and youre unsure, what is theprocedure? What is it?

Neeley Were not going to have questions and answers.

Snelling Mr. Neff told me . . .

Neeley Just give us your statement.

Wright OK, first of all, on this whole policy thing, youre going to sit down and write a policy that addressesa situation like this that hasnt occurred in 40 years? I think that to get through this meeting peopleneed to make their comments and sit down. Its not a back and forth question and answer process. So

ust make your statement.

Snelling What Im saying is, what should have happened? When the Board was established it should have hadsome kind of procedure, laid out by Mr. Wright to Mr. Hank. How, if she had any questions aboutthe checks that she had to sign, that should be laid out. Theres nothing wrong with saying, Well if Ihave a question do I have the right to not sign it? And someone back there said the PG&E bill had to

be signed right away. Im just saying that if we lay out the procedure and put it down , we wouldntbe having to be paying you29umpteen dollars to be here, and we wouldnt have to be having thismeeting. Thats all Im saying. We got the cart before the horse here, guys.

Griffiths OK, well, there you are. Go ahead.

Bliss One of the other things the District Attorney advised was that the next step that should be taken isreporting something to the Grand Jury that would be able to investigate something like this. And thatwas his advice, well not really his advice, because I just had a conversation with him. The otherperson that was in the room was (Rob Causeway???) who is the head investigator of the county, orlead investigator in the entire El Dorado County, and he too felt like something had to be done.Legally is what they are concerned of. It was not illegal unless the stuff was used. And as soon as itis used, yes, it becomes an illegal matter. But the process then would be the Grand Jury needs to hearwhat has gone on, and the Grand Jury needs to do an investigation. And I believe that that is donethrough the Grand Jury. It is nothing that we have to go out and hire an investigator to do it, which


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you guys might know more than me about the Grand Jury. I dont know. But I feel like that was ahuge issue. And the other thing that Vern has stated was that the big issue would be social securitynumbers, and in his point of view social security numbers are an absolute hot commodity on the blackmarket. They get TONS of money for them. And the other important thing to know is that its

public knowledge, weve seen it all go around, the tax liens that are against Director Otermat, themoney that she owes. Obviously she is in a financial crunch, whereas I mean, people get charged formurder for stuffyou knowfor financial gain. So Im just saying that was another thing that was

stated by the District Attorney, the fact that social security numbers are a huge issue, and selling themis a huge issue, and the fact of the matter is, is that well never know. And what if one of theirs were

sold, then obviously we can do that, but I cant imagine that at this point she would ever do thatbecause she wouldnt want to be caught now.

Griffiths Thank you. There was someone in the back. Maria?

M Capraun30

My question is on your policy, because you dont have a direct policy relating to how to handle thisissue, (Griffiths agrees: No, we dont.) and the only thing you actually have is in the Unioncontract, and you had a letter from the Union about the complaint, and the complaint is aviolation/misapplication of the MOU District rules and regulations governing personnel practices or

working conditions. Thats what the grievance coming from the employee would be. It doesnt saywhat the employee grievance is about, just that they filed one. Once youve filed it they have up to 25days of investigation to be done before any action is taken, and the General Manager will make thesuggestion of what the action would be. But you had 25 days. You only allowed seven in this case.You said it was Tuesday you were notified?

Otermat The 16th

Capraun Thats the only policy you have, and you really need some policies here. And this is a perfectexample.

Griffiths OK. Theres a fresh face. Yes.

Mendenhall31

This is the first time Ive attended this . . . Its really upsetting. Its really one of the most horribleexperiences Ive had since Ive lived up here to see this community torn apart. I read Letters to the

Editor and I watch all the stuff thats happening, and . . .

Neeley Would you mind telling us who you are?

Mendenhall My name is Kathleen Mendenhall, and I just see Kathy sitting there, and everybodys like its like,wow, youre a felon. And Id better watch out, because if youre behind me - its really thiswoman is just trying to do community work, and thats what everybody here wants to do. I think itsfor the community. Isnt it? I mean, is it? . . . I dont know. Is it not for the community? Is

everybody here having a really good time sitting here? Its just really upsetting to see somebody

accused before there is something . . . Yes, it is a concern. I am so panic-stricken by identity theft thatI will not even let anybody know where I live. (laughter) Im terrified of identity theft, and Iunderstand thats a real concern. I have LifeLock. I have everything. But I also know that its reallyimportant to get evidence, have hard core evidence. Maybe she made a mistake. Maybe she did areally really really stupid stupid stupid thing by taking a picture, and never never should do that everagain. But to have everybody saying God, Kathys got money problems, maybe shes selling those.

Its really bothering me to see somebody sitting there, and youre accusing her of being a thief, righthere in front of her face! Im sorry, but if youre going to accuse somebody at least do it behind their

back! (more laughter)


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West One thing we put through, if I heard right, is that she signed something on the 8 th. Hank said shedidnt. All you have to do is look at the check. Could we at least agree to that?

Griffiths I dont think its quite that simple.

White I have a copy of the check. It was signed by Kathy Otermat. The check cleared on July 30th.

Otermat (Tries to speak. Spoken over)

White The check cleared on July 30 th. You did not sign this check in August. This check was signed inJuly. The bank statement clearly shows the check clearing on July 30, 2012.

Otermat Whats the amount?

White $20,497.53. The check cleared on July 30 th. The check was not signed, and the check informationwas not included in the information you reviewed on August 8 th.

(More cross talk and dispute)

Griffiths (Pounds gavel) This is going to go on and on and on. Does anyone have anything new to say?

B. Capraun32

Yes, I would like to speak. My name is Bill Capraun. I was a GDPUD employee. When a Directorwas found to have altered his ditch system water box to provide the Director with more water than hewas paying for, the employees notified management. Management then addressed the issue, and itwas resolved without public notice or Special Board Meeting. And Im saying that because I know. Ifixed it. I just want to let you know the history of the way it was done and should be done.

Griffiths Thank you. Anyone else?

Neeley I think that one small difference, well, one big difference with this is that information can go out and

that it affects people long term. If youve taken ditch water you dont affect other people. Youveaffected the District by losing revenue. But in this case people are afraid that somehow theinformation will get out, and most of us dont know enough about computers or financial systems to

even know whether thats a real or not real fear. But nevertheless fear, nonetheless, and theemployees, many of them, have signed up for this LifeLock to protect just in case. But it has far-reaching consequences. Thats why its become an issue.

Griffiths Did you have anything?

Krizl Yea, Id like to say some things. Ive written down a bunch of different notes. Ive listened with

great interest in what people have had to say. Ill try to do these in a manner that makes some sense,

but Ive jotted them down over the last hour or so. This is not a jury trial. Weve not here to convict

somebody. Were not here to send somebody off to jail, or to do any sort of nefarious thing like that.It is in fact very very serious. If I was an employee of the District and I had any concern that myprivate information had been taken out of the District office and potentially put on a website . . . Ifyou look at Kathys website its filled with all sorts of junk. God only knows what stuff is in there.

And the security of that is . . . Theres no way to predict how that stuff is going to get treated, whosgoing to use it, where its going to end up. If I was an employee Id be very very concerned about

that, which is why the District took action to protect the employees. The District had to take action toprotect the employees because of liability concerns. If the District did not take action to protect theemployees and something does happenand it still could, we dont know thats a fact, we dont


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Otermat Ill answer that.

Krizl OK. Thats a dereliction of duty in my mind. Youre the Treasurer. You voted to approve thatcheck, and then you refused to sign it as Treasurer, and thats yourduty as Treasurer. (Kathyattempts to speak.) Im not done. Youll have a chance. This is a big deal. I applaud you and yourfriends out here for trying to turn you into the victim in this case. You are hardly the victim in this

case. And I will say on behalf of the employees, Shame on you for what youve created here.Whether you took something, you created an air of concern for the employees. Theyve shut downtheir bank accounts. Theyve had to go and get LifeLock protection for their identity. This iseffectively identity theft. Now whether it plays out or not, we dont know. But you have effectively

stolen their identity as far as theyre concerned. They dont know that you havent. Can youconvince them that you havent by just saying No, I didnt do it? I swear on my mothers gravethat I didnt do it. Thats not enough. Youve created an air of concern with the employees. They

have literally gone and shut down their bank accounts because of some picture you took that wasnt

necessary to begin with. I for one, Im offended by that. These employees have been working here

for a long long time, and theyve put a lot of energy into supporting this community, providing acrucial service to this community, and what do you do? You just spit on em. Thats it. Its justlike, just to Hell with them, who cares about the employees? You call them names just because some

of them were associated with the recall. (Kathy attempts to dissent.) This is wrong. This is not away to treat employees. This is not a way to gain trust. Its not a way to gain respect, either here atthe District or in the community. I would call for the question. Somebody in the back of the roommentioned a little while ago that he believed Kathy Otermat should pay for the LifeLock, and Ibelieve thats absolutely true, that you should pay for all costs incurred with this confusion, but the

motion is to remove Kathy Otermat as Treasurer. I dont trust you to be a signatory on financialdocuments associated with the District at this point.

Neeley In terms of seriousness, the bank manager suggested . . .

Otermat I thought I was going to be allowed . . . to Norm. Please let me respond.

Neeley The bank manager suggested that employees close all accounts. Whether or not it was proved, theyfelt the possibility of release of information was important. The bank manager said that.

Otermat Norm, just assume for a minute that everything I provided was actually true. That the notes I tookwere actually in trying to do my job as best I can as Treasurer and as a member of the Board. It wasnot a question for Dolores or Stephanie about the new treatment plant. Could they answer why one isthree times more and how, in designing the new treatment plant, we could have some powerefficiency? I dont think so. Regarding lack of trust and confidence, when I first became a Board

Member we had webinars on ethics as well as the Brown Act, and then I also took additional classesthrough the League of Women Voters in Placerville with Terry Frank besides the onward training. SoI had three classes on the Brown Act. I took the receipts to these classes. Director Neeley and

yourself were participants in illegal luncheonsquorums for multiple years. They were paid for bythe business credit card with sometimes a business purpose.

Neeley Theyre not illegal. Youve been spreading that lie for a year.

Otermat Let me finish, please. And so immediately I had a lack of trust for both you, Director Neeley, theGeneral Manager who paid for those with the sole Chase credit card that was paid for by theratepayers. And also ultimately the General Counsel who participated in some. And these were allreviewed by each of the physical classes I took. So regarding lack of trust and confidence, thatswhen I first had lack of trust or confidence in the situation that I became involved in becoming an


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elected Director. You say I have no confidence in the community. I came here without knowinganyone. My husband was the only one that knew I was going to run. I had no support. Eventuallypeople who supported Director Neeley called me up. She said she was going to look into excessivemanagement salaries. She said she was going to look into other things. And so, you say I have noconfidence in the community. I believe I have an outpouring of support in the community, donethrough trying to do the best job I can, trying to do it right, listening to them, responding to themquickly. I try to do my job as best I can. As I mentioned, theres a hostile environment. The recall

failed, and do you think I would be stupid enough to try to pull this after recall when all eyes are onme? Absolutely not! Absolutely not. And for some that are out there that may be open minded, Iwould like them to know that I absolutely mean it. I have never taken any confidential employeeinformation. It is a shame that the investigation was not done correctly, like Mr. Cooper stated.Because I would gladly have welcomed anyone to look at my camera - take it, because I havenothing to hide. The reason it took menot 13 days or whateverto respond to Mr. Wright isbecause I knew I did nothing wrong. So by seeing an email from Mr. Wright that stated that therewere several complaints about me taking away public information . . . I did forward it to severalpeople that I trust that have experience in this area, and they said, Kathy, youre being set up. Itsa big red flag.

(Neeley and others ridicule this)

Otermat (continuing) And so that is one of the reasons why I didnt respond. And Mr. Wrights an attorney.You probably tell your clients Shut up. I didnt want to shut up. That is why today I spoke. Some

people advised me that I come here and say, I will not speak. I wanted to speak, and for the recordsay I have never taken any confidential employee information. Theres absolutely no proof of it.

Unfortunately, we cant prove it, because no matter what I say Bonnie will say, Oh youre smartenough you know how to erase things. Mr. Cooper is right. You can erase headers. You cannoterase data. If anyone wanted to take my IPad or my IPhone as a neutral party, Id gladly welcome it.

Griffiths So, having gone through thisand I think everyoneI would hope everyone in the audience who hadsomething new and different has told us. So, bring it back to the Board, which it kind of already has,

and so at this point theres been a motion and a second to remove Director Otermat as Treasurer and,at thispoint well take a vote. All in favor say Aye. Aye. Those opposed please say No. No.The Chair votes Aye. The motion carries.

Krizl Whos going to be Treasurer? Thats the follow-up motion.

Griffiths Well . . . Do we need to have a Treasurer before our next meeting?

Neeley You have an audit meeting coming up . . .

Griffiths I would like to put it on for the next regular meeting. September 11th.

Griffiths The other issue I would encourage the Board to deal with is the possibility, regardless of whathappened, I feel like the GDPUD still has an obligation to the employees to provide them some sortof protection from the potential of a security breach. So I would encourage the Board to spend themoney to get LifeLock or its equivalent to protect the assets of the employees. For this letter from theUnion suggests 18 months.

(Background discussion, incl. Neeley: A counter offer?)

White No, I think if thats the Boards wishes we could follow through with it. I think it would meet withthe wishes the Union has, um, expressed to this point in time. It would be an appropriate action for


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the Board.

Griffiths OK. Anyone like to make a motion and then Ill . . .

Unk. male Can you have a reliable list of all the employees names might have been seen?

White We have the exact backup information that was provided on the day.

Krizl Ill make a motion. I strongly believe this whole thing started with a photo. The reason were doingLifeLock for the employeesand I believe very strongly the employees need to be protected. This isan affront to the employees and their financial security. I believe very strongly its a photo thatstarted this, and that Director Otermat be responsible for the payments of the LifeLock. Thats mymotion.

Griffiths Im not sure we can do that.

Otermat Even though I, for the record, I said I didnt . . .

Griffiths I dont know if we can do that. (confused discussion)

Krizl The reason Im saying that is because the LifeLock is an insurance policy against any identity theft.The reason were doing that is because of the events that transpired. Whatever you TOOK, we dont

know. And Ill admit that we dont have the answer to that. But the fact that you took SOMETHING

is driving us to get LifeLock. So youre driving us to get the LifeLock. Your actions are causing theDistrict to spend money on LifeLock on the employees. And I think the fact that you chose to do that- theres consequences from your choices.

Otermat I could have asked one of the employees to take a photocopy for me. Since Ive been here Imdamned if I do and Im damned if I dont. And if I did that it would be, possibly, Dont you know

how understaffed we are? (background ridicule) I tried to . . .

Krizl And look what were spending time on because of you coming in and taking a photo and notresponding to anybody about it. Not providing a simple answer. Look, I didnt do that. Heres thephoto I took. It had nothing to do with any confidential information. Instead, you chose to wait, andnow were having a Special Meeting. I could argue that you should pay for staff time and attorneystime. But I think you ought to pay for the LifeLock for those affected employees.

Neeley I dont agree with that suggestion. Id like to suggest that we ban phones and photos and the checksigning. But also that the Board approve paying for LifeLock for the employees. But I dont thinkwe should ask . . .

Griffiths So, is that your motion?

Neeley Yes.

Krizl Well I made a motion . . .

Griffiths Yes, I know, but there wasnt a second.

(Agreed) Died for lack of second

So, your motion is to . . . repeat your motion.


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Neeley I move that we pay for the Districts providing LifeLock for whichever names w ere on the potentialinvoices. The Unions 18 months sounds long, but I know nothing about any of this stuff. I suggestthat we do it for three months and reconsider.

White I think it goes in six-month cycles. Is that right?

.We can purchase it monthly, but it is more expensive.

. We can get a discount if we buy it annually.

. I believe that more research should be done.

Griffiths So . . .

Neeley I think we need to do it. Id go ahead, and if we can get a discount for annual then I would approvepaying for it annually.

Griffiths So your motion is to get LifeLock or the equivalent (Neeley: for the affected employees . . . )

Griffiths And you also said something about . . .

Neeley I had said maybe three months and review, but if we can get . . .

Griffiths No, about taking photographs and . . .

Neeley Oh.

Griffiths Is that part of the motion?

Neeley No.

Griffiths One year of LifeLock for the affected employees. Assuming theres a discount.

White So, have a clean motion that . . .

Can I read it back?

Provide LifeLock f

kathy otermat gdpud meeting transcript

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