karl marx was really a free-marketeer, says attali_ interview - bloomberg

7/31/2019 Karl Marx Was Really a Free-Marketeer, Says Attali_ Interview - Bloomberg

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Karl Marx Was Really a Free-Marketeer, Says Attali:

InterviewBy Farah Nayeri - Aug 29, 2005

Aug. 30 (Bloomberg) -- Karl Marx was a closet capitalist.

So writes French author Jacques Attali in ``Karl Marx ou l'esprit du monde'' (Fayard, 504 pages,

23 euros.)

Attali argues that the theoretician widely blamed for the rise and fall of the Soviet Union wasactually a free-marketeer who favored capitalism as a stepping stone to his communist ideal and

predicted globalization as we know it today.

That, he says, makes Marx the thinker du jour. Sales of his book suggest he may be right, at least

in France: ``Karl Marx'' ranks among the country's non-fiction bestsellers.

Like his subject, Attali is something of an overachiever. He graduated from four of France's elite

``grandes ecoles,'' finishing top of his graduating class at the Ecole Polytechnique engineering

school.

When the late Francois Mitterrand became president of France in 1981, Attali, then 38, moved into

the adjacent office as his special adviser. Some of his ideas later became reality: the G rande

Bibliotheque, the giant library in eastern Paris, and the European Bank for Reconstruction and

Development, based in London.

Today, Attali is president of PlaNet Finance, a federation of some 10,000 micro-lenders that

provide funding to the poorest of the poor. He is also the author of 37 books, including novels,

children's stories and a play. The topic of his 38th? Mitterrand, his one-time mentor, who died a

decade ago.

Free Marx

On a rainy day last week, Attali settled into a red armchair at Bloomberg's Paris bureau and,

between sips of Earl Grey tea, shared his views on Marx, the world and the future.

Nayeri: In your biography, you say Marx has become relevant to the world today. How so?

Attali: Marx was understood as the thinker of Marxism and, more than that, a thinker of





Sovietism. Actually, Marxism and Sovietism were built after Marx, and against him. Marx was a

thinker of globalization. He was strongly against the idea of taking power for socialism in one

country, strongly against the idea that communism could come instead of capitalism. For him,

socialism should come after capitalism spreads everywhere in the world, including China and

India. Ironically, he explained that the one country where socialism cannot begin is Russia, which

is too backward.

For Marx, capitalism was huge progress compared to the previous feudal system. Therefore, he

was strongly in favor of capitalism as progress toward liberty for mankind. He was in favor of free

markets. He was in favor of free trade, explicitly; against protectionism, explicitly. And he

explained that socialism, therefore, should come after.

Beyond Capitalism

Nayeri: Do you think that the world according to Marx will ever see the day?

Attali: I'm sure there will be something beyond capitalism.

It is clear that capitalism will win against the previous regime. It will take a lot of time, there will

be some fights against theocracies as well as dictatorships. But I believe capitalism is not here

forever, meaning more than one, two, three or five centuries.

What is beyond capitalism is a world of free things and (things of) no value, and what we see on

the Internet, in (downloaded) music ... is exactly that: the beginning of a world where some things,

or everything, will or may become free.

Nayeri: Do you think the U.S. and the West will lose their political and economic dominance of the

planet in 50 years' time?

Attali: In 50 years, no. But there is no empire forever, just as there is no civilization forever, and it's

clear that the American empire, like the Roman Empire, will begin to decline, and is beginning to

decline. As we saw with the Roman Empire, the decline took more than four centuries to happenand what happened after that was a disaster.

Anarchy or Governance?

The question is how long the decline of the American empire will take, and for me, it will be very

long. What will happen after will be global anarchy, such as happened in the early Middle Ages, or

the beginning of global governance, if we see a victory of democracy.

Nayeri: Bob Geldof famously said he would like to make poverty history. As the president of PlaNet

Finance, do you consider that aim possible?

Attali: It is needed. I don't know if it is possible.





We see that poverty is one of the main sources of violence; terrorism finds its sources in poverty,

and poverty finds its sources in violence. But I don't believe that the instruments that Bob is

proposing, such as debt relief, are the most efficient ones, because debt relief means debt relief of

governments, and the debt of governments is made for buying weapons or whatever. It is more

important to help the very poorest to get out of debt. It's what micro-finance is about.

Nayeri: What is your next project in terms of book writing?

Attali: I am finishing my understanding of what Francois Mitterrand was all about.

Nayeri: How come it took you so long to decide to write this book?

Attali: Well, 10 years after his death, I think it's time to say what I think about his action.

To contact the reporter on this story: Farah Nayeri in Paris at at [email protected].

To contact the editor responsible for this story: Jim Ruane in Brussels at [email protected].

©2010 BLOOMBERG L.P. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

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karl marx was really a free-marketeer, says attali_ interview - bloomberg

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