june 29, 2009, transcript of special oak creek common council meeting

8/9/2019 June 29, 2009, Transcript of Special Oak Creek Common Council Meeting

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TRANSCRIPT FROMPROCEEDINGS, SPECIAL COMMON COUNCIL MEETING

MONDAY, JUNE 29, 2009, 6:00 P.M.

. PRESENTED AND ADOPTED: RESOLUTION NO. 10987-061609, APPROVING INTERGOVERNMENTALMOU BETWEEN CITY OF FRANKLIN AND CITY OF OAK CREEK PERTAINING TO DEVELOPMENT OFSOUTH 27 TH STREET CORRIDOR PLAN, A JOINT PROJECT, CITY OF FRANKLIN, CITY OF OAK CREEK.

Mayor Bolender: Okay, item number one. Doug do you want to start this? Did everybody get their informationdropped off at their homes? Doug is now going to go through that information. If you have any questions,please hold them until Doug gets through with this portion.

Community Development Director Doug Seymour: Thank you. At your meeting of June 16 th, the CommonCouncil held this item, which is a consideration of a Resolution No. 10987, which approves intergovernmentalmemorandum of understanding, or MOU as well refer to it, between the City of Oak Creek and the City of Franklin, pertaining to the development of the South 27 th Street Corridor plan. Now, while the MOU is titled as anMOU, regarding the South 27 th Street corridor plan, it really, the juxt of it is, is that it really pertains more so, or equally so, to the Drexel Avenue interchange as it applies a cost sharing mechanism for future street lighting on27 th Street as a way to bridge the gap, if you will, between the local share, or 25% that the City had previouslycommitted to via Resolution and the 50% share that the State, Wisconsin Department of Transportation, has

been requiring. Throughout the debate, regarding the Drexel Avenue interchange, I think staff has heardconsistently from this Council and from the Community of that a couple of things have to happen in order for them even to consider that and it would be that the interchange would have to be accomplished at little or no riskto the taxpayer, which means, it would have to be through a TIF district, so we dont have an impact to the localproperty tax and that it be done through a coalition of a various groups. I think that youll find that in going over the packet that you have before you this evening and the analysis that was put into the preparation that was putinto that packet that I think we brought a proposal which accomplishes those tasks. Essentially, this is a projectwhich was envisioned, actually earlier than the Citys creation of TIF number 7, which includes the propertiesbasically west of I-94, between Drexel Avenue and the county line. That project plan included three milliondollars for a Drexel Avenue interchange for the local share, so this is something that has been considered, wellthought out, that it is a financing mechanism in place, and well get to that, briefly, to show you how that worksand how that can be accomplished at very little risk to the taxpayer. It is something where TIF 7 does have apositive cash flow at this point and I know that many of you are concerned about that, and some of the things

that came out of the earlier from the Department of Revenue, and that cash flow can pay for the incrementneeded to pay the debt service on an interchange, even under the most conservative of financial projections.So, in essence, this is something that has been planned. The proposal thats before you this evening wouldraise the Citys share from about 25% to roughly about 28% of this major infrastructure investment, which ispretty comparable with some of the other things that the state has approved lately with respect to local shares for transportation infrastructure improvements of this nature. Since, really the major point of contention, I think, hasbeen the Citys ability to pay and the financial structure of any local share, what Id like to do at this point in timeis introduce to you, and many of you already know Paul, Paul Thompson of the firm of Hutchinson, Shockey, Erly& Company, who ran an independent financial analysis of the increment coming off of the Citys tax incrementalfinancing number 7 and the ability for that increment to cover debt service associated with the borrowing for anew interchange and all of this information is in your packet as well, so Ill let Paul, maybe, run you through that.Before we do that, well be actually talking about TIF districts in a lot more detail at the council meeting, but I didprovide a sort of a primer, if you will, on TIF districts as part of your packet and I would ask that if you have anyquestions, I would certainly be able to kind of go over what TIFs are and the mechanics behind the TIFs,because it does play a very important role in the financing of this improvement, as well as all the improvementsin the project plan. So, with that, Paul, if you want to run them, can you show them the numbers on that? Idappreciate that.

Paul Thompson: Sure. The information that you have in your packet is really a growth of some other informationthat we started with. Basically, three million dollars to build, or as Oak Creeks contribution, build thatinterchange. Also has with it, about $800,000 of interest that has to be paid back when you borrow all themoney. So, the total dollar amount necessary is about $3.8 million. When we first looked at this, we went backto the original project plan for taxing district number 7 and in that project plan, we had used 3% as an inflationarygrowth of property value and that 3% growth, no new growth. It would not be another new building built in the


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entire tax increment district, its just inflationary growth of 3% would have yielded a total of almost $19.2 million of tax increments. Once again, $19.2 million of tax increments versus $3.8 million of debt service. I went back,and its part of your packet this evening, you will notice there are a few pages that come from the Department of Revenue and the statements are changes in equalized values. These are published by the Department of Revenue each and every year and theyre for the years 2006, 2007 and 2008. Weve outlined the column, there,that is illustrative of the amount of economic change. In 2006, at the very bottom you will see a circle number,the amount of economic change for the City of Oak Creek was 11%. In 2007, it was 1% and in 2008, it was 2%.So, we rethought it, and thats about an average of a little over 4%, but we all know we dont live in 2006

anymore, so we went back and reran the numbers and said what would happen if we had 1% inflation, and 1%inflation, thats also in your packet this evening, is a table that says City of Oak Creek Projected Tax IncrementsNo New Construction, 1% Inflation, that yields $9.3 million dollars of tax increment. Once again, $9.3 millionversus the total principal and interest of $3.8 million. Thats for 15 years, so what were really saying is thateconomic growth for the City of Oak Creek for the next 15 years, will not increase by more than 1% as it appliesto this tax increment district. Department of Revenue doesnt break out growth patterns specifically for taxincrement district, but this district is fairly large and its made up of a mix of commercial, residential and industrialbuildings, so its fairly representative of the City. Were fairly confident in doing this at 1%, there would beadequate tax increment. We also looked at if you look at the 1% growth table and it takes about $320,000 to payoff that $3 million dollars. If you had $357,000 of tax increments in 2011, and you had zero growth for the nextfifteen years, there would still be enough money without any new construction in the tax increment district torepay $3.8 million dollars of principal and interest. So, we think that, based on these numbers, that the $3 milliondollars is easily covered by simple inflationary growth within the tax increment district. Looking at a number of

factors, including the Department of Revenue and how they look at property, every year those assessmentscome out from the Department of Revenue and every year well be able to make an adjustment as to where wethink thats likely to go in the future.

Mayor Bolender: Okay. Are there any questions from the Common Council to Paul in regards to the informationthat he gave you and the packets that we received Friday? Okay, Steve.

Alderperson Steve Scaffidi: I appreciate the information you provided us. My question is more to do with whatthe state, what the relationship the state has. Were being told that, and maybe this is not directed at you, werebeing told that the State may agree that if we pass this MOU that theyll be favorable to not having us pay agreater share, greater than 28%. Doug, or anyone else up here, Mayor, Larry, what is your understanding of that? Were being asked to take this leap of faith that says, were going to go out on a limb and say we can getthis money through the TIF district, we can get the 28% and even more than that, but why are we making this

jump if we dont have any assurances that it means anything, it might mean anything down the road?

Mayor Bolender: Larry will answer that.

City Attorney Lawrence Haskin: Well, I dont know if I have an answer directly for that, except to say theres nocommitment beyond the 25%, the $3.8 million plus the half a million dollars in enhanced lighting on 27 th Street. Imean, if, theres nothing in here that commits the Council beyond that. So, if the state were to say were notgoing to fund the balance of this, if DOT says we appreciate your $3.8 million dollar commitment for theinterchange, we appreciate the MOU on 27 th Street for $500,000 from enhanced lighting from Franklin and$500,000 from Oak Creek, but were not going to fund the rest of it, it just doesnt get done.

Mayor Bolender: So, no go. Let me make a statement here. When this came in front of me and the Councilvoted to go in for 25%, nobody could tell me at that time that it wasnt going to get thrown on the back of thetaxpayer. I said, nope. I vetoed it. They over-rode my veto and now with this proof, and I spent Friday morningwith Paul going over the figures and going over this, because Ill tell you right now, if its going to be nailed on theback of the taxpayers, its a no-go for me. Ill veto it, what have you. With the information that Paul gave me onFriday, and the packet that I read over, actually three times to make sure I could read, its a go for the simple factthat the TIF, and I spoke loudly and plainly, wheres a TIF? Where is a group voice were going to hear? Whereis Franklin? Where is Northwestern Mutual? And, basically, Larry Haskin and myself visited NorthwesternMutual and they said because of economic conditions, were for right now doing a halt on the 114 acres acrossthe street. As soon as the conditions get better, theyre moving on that, as far as they know right now. And, withthat in mind, I can see whats coming for the City of Oak Creek in the future. I look at this two ways. One, youcan either say no and walk away from this and you close out a real growing aspect. We have Delphi sitting here,we have Northwestern Mutual, we have a lot of potential with that and as long as its not on the back of thetaxpayer, I dont have a problem with this. If youre real smart you change your mind when the information tells

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you one thing. You dont stick to your guns because you cant say youre wrong. I was wrong only in the pointthat I was protecting the taxpayer and I will do it again today. But, this intersection, or I should say, interchange,will benefit the City of Oak Creek. Dan, you were a big pusher of it and a lot of other people were and now I cansee, as long as we can get the money from the increments, out of that TIF, I dont have a problem with itbecause the taxpayer is not going to be bitten by it. The other aspect that I fought tooth and nail, that moneyfrom Wisconsin Electric, belongs to the people of Oak Creek and I didnt want to spend that on an interchangebecause things are going to get tough in 2010 and 2011. We need to be very conservative in what were doing.That money should be used for tax relief and what the City needs. If you dont have good roads, nobody wants

to live here and nobody wants to come here. Thats where this money should be going towards. General taxrelief and improvements in the City, but at this point with the information that Paul gave me, I cant say that Imagainst this and I would be voting for this intersection at this time with exactly that tax money if safe with us, butthe TIF money will be the one that will be the payee. Okay, we went to Franklin and I talked to Mayor Taylor several times and he said its not in our city, were not paying for it. Okay, thats fine. I understand that point.But, at this point in time, I look at Delphi and we really need to do something there and this is a good way to do itand yet we dont burn the taxpayer and thats one person here that Im here to protect. So, as far as Imconcerned, that if this Council turns this down tonight, youre making a mistake for the future of this City. This isnot Oak Creek, the corn and soy bean capital of Wisconsin. Im one of the last farmers, Mark Verhalen, theKreitons, and several others, thats over with. We have to look at this as a positive thing. The other thing, wealways have to keep in mind is, how are we treating our taxpayers, and the taxpayers need not pay for this andthey wont pay for this the way this is set up under that TIF, so thats my twist on it. So, from now on, Dan, doyou got a question?

Alderperson Dan Jakubczyk: Yeah, well, as I mentioned at the last meeting, Im still a little upset that Franklinhasnt come and made a firm offer, but thats neither here nor there. What Im hearing from people of the 1 stDistrict is, that, right now weve got two good interchanges, one at Ryan Road, one at Rawson Avenue and thencome November, well have a third one at College Avenue and now they want to build a fourth one? Whatcommunity in southeast Wisconsin has four interchanges to their particular district? And, to my knowledge, wedbe the only one.

Mayor Bolender: Thatd be four plus one, is five. Wed have five.

Ald. Jakubczyk: Well, okay, well Ive had to go door-to-door a lot, you know, when I was running for this seatand I had to do a, answer a lot of questions on this interchange and I told them I was a firm commendment for the, when we did put up the 25%. But, I think thats all Oak Creek should do is go with the 25% and thats whereI stand right now. Now, I will vote for the 25%, but no additional funds for that.

Mayor Bolender: Mr. Scaffidi?

Ald. Scaffidi: Paul, you painted a conservative 1%. Is there any scenario where this TIF district wouldnt beable to fund this project?

Paul Thompson: The only one I can think of is if you actually had negative numbers that if you, if the TIF districtas a whole, actually lost value as opposed to gaining even 1%. But, again, were talking over a period of 15years. It strikes me, and Ive done well over 250 tax increment districts around the state, and I understand thatwere in a little bit different economic time, but I cant imagine that the City of Oak Creek will have zero percentgrowth for 15 years in that particular TIF district, or even city-wide. Its just hard for me to imagine that thatcould possibly happen. At zero growth, you basically have 1-1.1% growth for the first year, you get up to that357,000 and you stop for the next 14 years. You know, if theres no growth in Oak Creek for 14 years, I suspectthat the entire State of Wisconsins in trouble.

Mayor Bolender: I think they call that depression. Okay, Mr. Toman.

Alderperson Mike Toman: Thanks for those numbers, tonight, Paul. Ive got no doubt that there is sufficientfunding, there is sufficient increment to support this, theres no doubt there, the numbers add up to it. And, your numbers are conservative, which I appreciate because I dont think things are going to get better for quite awhile. Thats just my opinion, but, tell us, and tell the Council and the public here tonight a little bit about, and Idont know if Doug wants to handle this, or Paul, either one, what happens to existing increment and incrementthat you collect over the years in excess of this, what happens to it if it doesnt get dedicated to the Drexel

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Avenue interchange? What are some of the other projects eligible in this district and where can that money bespent other than the interchange?

Community Development Director Seymour: Thanks Mike because thats what I was actually raising my handabout. Under the project plan for TIF number 7, section 4, which is in your packet and if the computer was notshutting down, I would show that to you on the screen, but its installing some updates, it shows the projects thatwere approved as part of the project plan for TIF 7. It says street improvements for 27 th Street, Drexel Avenueinterchange, Drexel Avenue reconstruction, Puetz Road reconstruction, Elm Road interchange, and other

improvements. Its important to realize that only the projects that are specified in your project plan can be fundedthrough the increment that is generated through your TIF. You cannot spend that money outside the TIF district.You cannot spend that money on capital equipment, for instance, you couldnt buy a new fire truck, you couldntbuy a new City Hall, only those projects in the TIF district and looking at those now, Ill let you judge for yourself on what the return on investment is going to be for each of those projects, but I guess I would submit to you, thatthe return on investment from an interchange is probably going to be higher than that of a streetscaping on 27 thStreet, which is nice and needed, but I submit to you that the return on investment, which has been estimated atabout, for an urban village area alone, at about $351 million dollars, is probably more immediate and moresubstantial than the investment in streetscaping or the investment in reconstruction Puetz Road, things of thatnature. Does that address your question, Mike?

Ald. Toman: Part of it. I guess when you outline the basics of a TIF district and what happens over the years onincrements, a TIF district has a life at the beginning of it, x amount of years, right?

Community Development Director Seymour: Yes.

Ald. Toman: Okay, so one of the factors in spending money in a TIF district when increment is obtained istheres an underlying factor there that says that the TIF district can be retired early, right? If your incrementexceeds x amount of dollars over a fifteen year period, right?

Community Development Director Seymour: It can.

Ald. Toman: Okay.

Community Development Director Seymour: But the one thing that Ill note, and I dont want to detract from your question, but in this situation youve got a financial development agreement with both Joseph Campione andSons and, perhaps more importantly, Liberty Property Trust, which runs that length out for, what I believe, thefifteen years, so in this case, I dont know that you could cancel the TIF early.

Mayor Bolender: Not if its written for Campione, you cant cancel.

Community Development Director Seymour: One of the things you can do, and at first, we should be clear thatall of the tax increment that you collect, has to stay within the tax increment district. It cant be used for other purposes outside of the projects that are listed for the tax increment district. Thats the first part that needs to beclear. You cant take that tax increment and go fix something at the lakefront. Its legally not allowed. Thesecond thing is that if you collect tax increments above and beyond what is needed to pay debt service, lets sayyou do these projects, you borrow the money and now youre collecting more tax increment than you need to payprincipal and interest back, perhaps you collect so much you look at it, you say weve got this pot of money whydont we pay off those bonds early and close the tax increment district? You could go to Liberty Property Trustand Campione and say to them, here, heres the money were going to owe you for the next three, or four years,whatever it is, and our agreement is done and then you can close the tax increment district. As long as theyreceived all the money they were entitled to receive, and you would pay off all your debt early. Weve actuallydone that in a few districts in Oak Creek. Weve done that in a lot of other districts around the state where wevecollected more money than was necessary, weve paid off the debt early, or else we just put it into an account topay off the debt and then we closed the tax increment district and got it back on the tax roll as quickly aspossible.

Mayor Bolender: Theres been two TIF districts paid off early and that was in the last seven years.

Ald. Toman: And the benefit to that is it goes back into the tax base to the City, correct?

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Community Development Director Seymour: Correct. To the school district and the County.

Ald. Toman: Thats correct. It goes to the school district which everybody in this room pays taxes, gets aseparate billing on their school district taxes. MATC is another benefactor. I still cant support this. I cant seededicating all this money to, local money to, even though its in a TIF, its still, in my opinion, its a shuffling of thefunds, is what it is. And the reason I say that is because there are other projects, this Puetz Road reconstruction,were facing some big CIP projects down the road, even within that district, and Puetz Road is one of them.Wheres that money going to come from? Why should we be dedicating money to this Drexel Avenue

interchange without any help, a regional issue with local dollars. I still dont support it. Could you just go over quickly, is the enhanced lighting what makes it go from 25 to 28, Doug?

Community Development Director Seymour: Thats correct. And thats just an estimation. When you add the$500,000 into the $3.8.

Ald. Toman: So, in effect, when we started with this discussion we were at 25%, now were 3% higher?

Community Development Director Seymour: That would be correct.

Ald. Toman: Okay.

Mayor Bolender: Franklin will also throw in 3%, theyre doing it for the lighting and they want to see if this is a

spirit of cooperation from the State of Wisconsin.Ald. Toman: Thats fine that Franklins throwing that in. They should also throw it in on the interchange, plus,our taxpayers should also know that the DOT gives free lighting on 27 th Street. We dont have to pay a nickel for lighting on 27 th. This is enhanced lighting. Which Im not totally against and Im happy that Franklins throwing inon this, but I dont think its time to be throwing in an extra half million dollars on this deal. In my opinion.

Mayor Bolender: Danny.

Alderperson Dan Bukiewicz: Actually, Mike touched on a lot of my points. I was going to ask you two to, for theaudience sakes, explain the life of a TIF. The years. How we get the money. How we go about getting thismoney, first of all, and then how we go about paying it back in a matter of time and how its more or less almost atiming issue to use the money wisely. And, again, I was going back to investing this money within the TIF,whats going to be the biggest return on the dollar to increase the tax base of this community, which in turn,should lower property taxes in the end?

Community Development Director Seymour: Ultimately, I think youre correct, Dan, that it will. I think its a goodquestion to ask yourself, each one of you on the Council, and well just use the example that was brought up, Doyou think that the repaving or reconstruction of Puetz Road will give you the same return on investment thatyoud get if you develop an interchange? I guess thats a question youd have to answer for yourselves. I dontthink so. I think you get a higher return on the interchange. And, with that higher return, that gives you theopportunity to fund the reconstruction of Puetz Road, the reconstruction of Drexel Avenue, streetscaping along27 th Street. Can those things happen absent of Drexel Avenue interchange? Probably, but thats a gamble thatyoure also taking if you get that same no-growth scenario that youre talking about as the worst case, will themoney be there for that? You know, who knows. I think it comes down to, do you feel, and I think it always has,do you feel that the construction of an interchange is something that will benefit the City in the long run, and Ithink that knowing, or at least if you buy into the conservative investments and projections that have been putbefore you this evening, that should take the financial equation out of that and it becomes a decision as to whatyou think is the best for Oak Creek, and for the moment, just for the moment, remove the talk about money andwhos paying for what and how much it costs, but all things being equal, do you think that a new interchange isgoing to be the best thing for the City of Oak Creek as we move to the next ten, twenty, thirty, forty years with thenew jobs and types of jobs that one can reasonably expect from an enhanced level of development there. Thatsa question you have to answer there.

Mayor Bolender: Any other questions from the Council?

Ald. Bukiewicz: I did have an opportunity. We did put this meeting on hold for roughly a week and a half and Itook that time to, when I was out in the district, to talk to people. Gave them an opportunity to give me some

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input. I received mailings, e-mails, phone calls, some positive, some negative, and when I went out to visitpeople I got the same reaction. Quite frankly, most of it was more positive to put it in, move ahead with thevision and grow than it was to stay status quo. I appreciate everybodys input into it. When you take this job,you face a number of issues that you have to make judgments on. Some of them are task issues and thiscomes, actually, from a resident, he summed it up greatly better than I could and Im going to kind of steal fromhim or quote him, so to speak, and you have task issues, that is maintaining roads, floods, washes away theroad bed, you deal with it, you come up with the money and then you have vision issues. City Halls, FireDepartments, where do you want this next generation to see the City that you helped put an imprint on? I

believe the Drexel interchange fits that vision description for twenty years. When you take this job, you take anoath, not to just band-aid the City together for a little bit, it happens at times, but what you do, you dont do for theimmediate moments, sometimes, you do for the future. I believe this investment is the best thing for the City of Oak Creek at this time. I know it disjoints some people from their homes, unfortunately. Things like that, at onetime, 94 never went through there. Im sure there was some farmer that was really upset that his land was goingaway for the expressway, but none of us could imagine us living without that expressway today. The man alsoquoted that the road to success is always under construction, stability is no direction. I think stability is a goodthing. I wouldnt exactly classify it as a direction. I think this will help Oak Creek become a leader insoutheastern Wisconsin, economically. I think it will just lead to tremendous growth, not just on 27 th, but I believeit will work for Delphi and the surrounding areas. I was a little skeptical at first, how we were going to go out onthe limb and pay for this, but the TIF came to light, really in the last three weeks, and the numbers are just kind of overwhelming that its there and were going to have to spend that money within the TIF and I do believe its thebest investment within the TIF.

Mayor Bolender: Finished Danny?

Ald. Bukiewicz: Yes I am.

Mayor Bolender: Ken.

Alderperson Ken Gehl: As kind of a newbie on the Council, I just want to appreciate the battle that was foughthere in the past months and years over this commitment to this Drexel Avenue interchange and appreciate thecommitment the Citys already made to fund this local portion. I think staff and Mr. Thompson with your datashows that the TIF district cash flow seems to be more than adequate in a very conservative outlook to pay theway, to pay the freight here on this particular interchange. I think, Dan, youve spoke well that at this point intime, its probably the best piece of investment Oak Creek can make with this tax incremental money, DrexelAvenue, I think is the most beneficial opportunity this City faces to put this money to good use for incrementaltax, tax base and tax business development. You know, its unfortunate that theres some hesitancy becauseFranklin hasnt stepped up to the plate. I really, to me, thats really not here nor there. I think, really, that this isan opportunity for Oak Creek to step up, put this money to work, really develop the Drexel Avenue property, theDelphi property, its going to lead to, obviously, further development along 27 th Street. I think it really is aremarkable opportunity for the City to move forward and really as its been shown, its going to have essentiallyno incremental cost to the City and our taxpayer as we have seen from the data that has been laid out. So, Ithink, really, that this is an opportunity that its time for us to step up to the plate here, commit, support this MOUand move forward with this project.

Mayor Bolender: Tom Michalski.

Alderperson Tom Michalski: Well, I guess so far I havent changed my opinion on whether or not we should goforward with this. When I looked at, there are four or five different areas in the City that we need to, or we needto revive, or go forward on and have a lot of building, a lot of future vision for the area. Weve got the lakefront,weve got Howell Avenue near Oakwood. Weve got Howell Avenue near the Delphi plant. Weve got the newexpressway interchange coming in over on Elm Road, were looking for development to pick up over there.Youve got 27 th Street through the Corridor plan that weve got over there. You know, weve got our hands in alot of pots right now. One of my concerns is that when we did the Elm Road interchange, we told the State weonly wanted to go west because that was the best thing for that particular area that we didnt see futuredevelopment going east. If we would have really, at that time, felt that an interchange would have developed theCity all that much more, shouldnt we have at that time said, hey we want to go east and west and then well getthe same development value as if we were going with this here over on Drexel. Im on the MATC Board, Boardof Directors, and I already see over there, or at least for MATC, and you have to remember the counties that areinvolved and all the cities are involved, that devaluation of property is coming into effect and hitting MATC and

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their bonds and everything that theyre doing over there and I see that possibly could come over here to OakCreek also. And, I guess, lastly, I dont have a problem with the TIF being paid off in a timely fashion or better and our taxes over here in Oak Creek having money put into the general fund because the TIF was taken off,that the school district, that their funds would, that they would get some money from the paid off TIF, which I paymy taxes on, that MATC and the county. So, I guess I havent changed my mind here, and you do have four intersections, even if this one doesnt go through, interchanges.

Mayor Bolender: Steve Scaffidi.

Community Development Director Seymour: Mayor, if I could just respond briefly to Ald. Michalski. The ElmRoad interchange, and youre right the State is paying for the connecting road between I-94 and 27 th Street andthe Elm Road interchange, yeah theres tremendous value to be had there. Theres a lot of increment that canbe generated down there and when that happens, that only adds to the financial viability to TIF 7 and adds to thecaufers of that. And, yes the City recognizes the development potential thats around there, especially on theeast side, but the property owners there and the timing of that, it wasnt such that there was any real interest atthat point, and including the east side as part of TIF 7. Nonetheless, the City did still put $3 million dollars in theproject plan for improvements in and around the Elm Road interchange. So, there was some foresight into whatmight happen down there. I think you can see that theres tremendous potential and how a new interchange inthat location can lead to some very positive things for the City of Oak Creek. So, when we have thought aboutthat, and we have every hope that Elm Road interchange does lead to bigger and better things for the vacantproperties around there, much like we fully expect that a Drexel Avenue interchange would lead to bigger and

better things for the vacant properties surrounding that.Mayor Bolender: Thank you. Steve.

Ald. Scaffidi: Doug, how would this location of interchange be any different than, I always use the Southridgeexample? They have an interchange thats north of Layton Avenue. Nothing all the way until you get toSouthridge. And, I would say thats probably about the same distance from, probably even less in Oak Creek,from Rawson to where the Delphi property is. Why is it that 76 th Street had no problem developing without aninterchange right on top of where they wanted to develop, but were being asked to stick one literally right on topof the area that we want to push?

Community Development Director Seymour: Well, lets use 76 th Street as an example. 76 th Street andSouthridge right now, I will submit to you, and this is my personal opinion and professional opinion, is sufferingbecause of access issues. Its got, principally one interchange at 76 th Street. Its not even a full interchange, andthe development thats taking place around there and the congestion that takes place around there, I believe hasa very serious impact, or will have a very serious impact on the viability of some of those businesses in theSouthridge area. And, I think youre already seeing that and I think youre seeing the Village of Greendaleshowing some concern about and taking steps to hopefully shore up that and we wish them well in that effort.But, I do think that having a second point of access really does increase the viability of any commercial or business activity that takes place in that, in such that. Can you say that in 30 years that the Rawson Avenueinterchange wont be congested? I think that the State has already shown projections that theres going to besome level of congestion there, as there will be at Ryan Road. I think that the proximity of the areas of undeveloped land in the vicinity of what would be the Drexel Avenue interchange would benefit greatly by havingthose two points of interchange access and in the long term, wont encounter the same types of congestionproblems that the Southridge area may very well be seeing right now.

Mayor Bolender: Southridge is already suffering. Southridge is not doing that great. And that comes from themouth of somebody from the Village that its in. Okay, Mike Toman.

Ald. Toman: I guess Steve took part of my question, but I think a second part, we need to look at, do you haveExhibit 7 in front of you Doug? About what is a TIF? Explains what a TIF is.

Community Development Director Seymour: That one, Mike?

Ald. Toman: No, Exhibit 7, page 1, its Basic Function of a TIF is at the top and what is a TIF. Yeah, that oneright there. Okay. Could you, in that box to the right in the middle of the page, there, where it says pleasenote, could you go over that with us? For the public, too?

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Community Development Director Seymour: Sure, absolutely.

Ald. Toman: It kind of, I think it addresses pretty much what Steve had to say, or part of his question. Part of myquestion would be how the 76 th example would parallel to the, say, Calhoun interchange, that was proposed. Ithink that addresses that, that box, somewhat.

Community Development Director Seymour: When youre thinking about the Calhoun interchange, Im not surewhat point youre trying to make there.

City Attorney Haskin: Can I try to answer your question? Im not going to relate it to Calhoun or 76 th Street, butwhat this box talks about, whats called the but for test.

Ald. Toman: Right.

City Attorney Haskin: In other words, that but for the creation of the TIF district, development would have notoccurred within the TIF district area, thats a decision that was made back at the time that the TIF district wascreated. So, when the Common Council at that time created TIF 7, it made the determination that but for thecreation of the TIF district, the development would not have occurred in the manner that it did occur in thatparticular district. So, its not really a factor now for the decision in whether or not to go ahead with one of theproject costs within the district.

Ald. Toman: Well, I guess I personally disagree with that because each project in the TIF district does have tobe approved separately. We have an option whether or not to go forward on the interchange.

City Attorney Haskin: We certainly do, and thats a policy determination to make now. But, the but for test isonly really applicable to the initial creation of the district. But, you still have the discretion to decide whatprojects to move forward to. Thats why were having this discussion tonight.

Ald. Toman: I guess it directly relates to development on, when we talk about the interchange, its directlyrelated to the development, around that interchange, right? Is that a fair assumption?

Community Development Director Seymour: Thats one of the major.

Ald. Toman: Thats why were doing this, okay?

Community Development Director Seymour: : Thats correct.

Ald. Toman: So, I guess the 76 th Street example and the congestion, where does increased access with thisinterchange, how can you say that area wouldnt be developed without the interchange? And Calhoun is another example, if you take, there has never been an interchange added to this interstate, correct? This would be thefirst one.

Community Development Director Seymour: This would be the first new one in the State of Wisconsin.

Ald. Toman: First new one in the State of Wisconsin, and Calhoun had that option and Calhoun Road gotdeveloped without an interchange.

Community Development Director Seymour: Now Calhoun Road, in itself, Im not sure which portion of Calhoun Road youre referring to, but Calhoun Road in the area surrounding that area of the interchange, is notdeveloped.

Ald. Toman: Last time I went through there, theres quite a bit of building thats going up around there, rightdirectly adjacent to there.

Community Development Director Seymour: Towards Bluemound Road?

Ald. Toman: Yes.

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Community Development Director Seymour: Towards Bluemound Road it has been. And, if Oak Creek had thesame demographics and level of investment as Brookfield had, we probably wouldnt be having this discussion,but you dont.

Mayor Bolender: Finished?

Ald. Toman: Yes.

Mayor Bolender: Dan?

Ald. Bukiewicz: Just on a related issue, Calhoun Road right at 94 is not developed. On Bluemound Road it is,but it currently is a farm and a park when you take Calhoun Road. One subject that hasnt been touched on 27 thStreet is Northwestern Mutual Life, theyve been brought up as participating and they own some land thatscurrently under an A-1 tax deal and theyre willing to change that, I believe, or they or we have a, I know we donthave a written MOU with them, but it looks like theyll change the tax status that will also generate to help pay for this and it could possibly be incorporated into its own TIF once they develop their acreage.

Community Development Director Seymour: Thats correct. In your packet under Exhibit 6, youve got a letter dated January 13 th from Dave Clark, who is the Director of Real Estate for Northwestern Mutual, toRepresentative Honadel on which they did offer to become real partners in the interchange and the eventual,what they hope will be very successful economic development area for the City of Oak Creek. And, thats really

the format that it would take. I mean, they have several acres that are under an agricultural use exemption or assessment from the State of Wisconsin, and very simply thats where the State assesses land that is beingfarmed based on its use as a farm, more so than its actual value as a piece of property. They have agreed inthat letter and in private conversations, that they would voluntarily remove some of that land from that programwhich would create a higher value on those properties and, thus, if it were included in the TIF district, wouldntcreate, would create an increment that could be used towards a portion of the interchange. They mentioned afigure of $70,000. I dont know exactly if that would be the exact figure, but its safe to assume that thatcommitment would be in that range. And, it would be there should the City choose to accept that as part of anew TIF district. Now, I said, should the City choose to accept it for several reasons. I think its been, first, itsbeen demonstrated by Mr. Thompson and the very conservative financial projects that this TIF cash flowswithout that. So, you ask yourself, if someone wants to give you $70,000, why wouldnt you accept that? Thereason why you would consider withholding that commitment, is that a TIF has a very finite life-span. And, in TIF7s case, it was 17 years. You can go longer than that, but for a future TIF, that would have to be decided by theCommon Council and the Joint Review Board. If you were to make that, form that TIF this year you would eatup, who knows how many years of life in that, without having a definite repayment structure. So, in essence, youmight be taking several years of good increment out of that, and maybe Im explaining it wrong, Paul, maybe youcan jump in and add something to discussion, but should the City choose to take them up on that commitmentand form that TIF, you may be lessening the impact of that TIF by shortening its lifespan.

Mayor Bolender: Steve.

Ald. Scaffidi: Ill come back to the point I made at the beginning, youre asking us to pass this Memorandum of Understanding for something that we dont even know is going to happen is going to happen even if we pass it,correct?

Community Development Director Seymour: Based on discussions between our State Representatives andmembers, higher members of the Department of Transportation, they have been told that the Secretary will takea look at that, given that commitment thats being made by both Oak Creek and Franklin for this. Youre right. If this, if you pass this this evening and it goes to the State Department of Transportation and they say hmmm,well, thats nice, but no, then youve risked nothing. Youve got the money that you spent on the TIF district, themoney you committed to the Resolution previously for 25% plus the extra $500,000. If this MOU goes nowhere,youre not on the hook for that.

Mayor Bolender: Do you think that if the State of Wisconsin says no, were in for nothing, but they want to knowif we really want to play ball or play well, lets wait and see? And, I think thats the whole point to this. And thepoint is, I look at this and I was dead against this when it was tax money and I said no, the taxpayer is not payingfor this. And, I stuck my neck out and vetoed it and got that chopped off and okay thats fine, so youre in for 25% because thats been passed by a previous Council, but the idea is that I kept nosing around because I

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thought Im going to get Franklin in here so I went and beat up on the Mayor over there and he told me no and Isaid, I guess coalition is out, lets try a TIF district. And, I dont care what Franklins doing and I dont care aboutthey should be doing this. I dont care what anybody does. Leadership is a lonely place and I had a Colonelonce that told me you want to be a leader, you get to stand in front and say follow me because if you stand inback and say go do that youre not a leader. And, I just look at this and say, you know what, its a big thing for Oak Creek but once this is killed its dead forever. And, 27 th Street is going to suffer the impact because themore on and offs and get the congestion away from 27 th Street into the expressway and get them going home or going to Chicago, is going to be a plus. And you know today I had the, I think it was a blessing, because I was

talking to somebody about this TIF and the Drexel interchange and the guy said, you know I voted for you and Ireally didnt want the Drexel interchange, but if its not going to cost me anything on my tax bill, its a plus for theCity. He said Im all for it as long as I dont have to pay for it. And, I think thats what were trying to get to here.And, its nice to sit up here and say, well you know I talk to two people, but I bet you theres people out in theaudience for it and against it. And, the idea is that we have to say whats good for Oak Creek 10 years fromnow. And, the idea is thats what they ask you do for all that money we make, the six figures or whatever that is,well, if you move the decimal point I guess its six figures, but the point is, this is good for the future of this city.And you dont, its like a racecar driver, you look across the track as where youre going, not dead in front of you.And, I just look at this and say, come on guys we, this is our chance to do something. I was the biggestadvocate against this, until I start doing my homework and talk to Northwestern, and they say, well we got 114acres across the street that we want to do something with. And, Im trying to think, does anybody have 114acres you want to do something with that has the money to do it? Because Northwestern, when that economyturns up, they will move on this, but right now, everybody sit tight, zip up your flax jacket and sit this out. And,

right now we can do that with the TIF supporting us until things get really better and when they go. But, I justsure hope you guys arent going to say, well, you know, I cant see it, because, thats leadership, and leadershipsays whats good for this city. And, sometimes I think we need to just sit and say you know what? This is goodand I guess Im going to make a decision thats going to take some guts and glory to do it. So, Im all for thisnow, as long as that TIF keeps our taxpayers free of paying for it. And, if that can happen, and they promised usit can, then Im all for it. But, to put it on the tax rolls, no go. Ill be the first guy to jump up and veto this, but Idont see that as a reality. And, that extra 3% were talking about, If 3% is going to kill this, then I dont think weshould be in the game anyway. So, thats just my personal opinion. Dan number one.

Ald. Jakubczyk: Okay, as of last Friday, my wife and I have been citizens of Oak Creek for 33 years. In that 33years, we have seen Oak Creek just about double in population. Im not saying in the next 33 years its going todouble again, you know, I dont think Im going to be around, or the Mayors going to be around to see it, maybeDan and Ken will be, but I think that the, what we do tonight, hopefully, those two and those years around thattheyll say we did the right thing.

Mayor Bolender: Anybody else? Does anybody in the audience have anything to say? Its open to the floor?Please, when you come up here, if you want to come up and say something, thats fine, hold it to about two threeminutes and dont come up more than once, because weve got people here and I dont want to hear the samething over and over and over again.

Sig Tomkalski: Thank you. My name is Sig Tomkalski and I live on Oak Leaf Dr. Ive been in the community sixyears in about six days. When I looked at this and I thought about it and reflected on it, I had two points of focus.One is my experience in going west to Brookfield Square and out in that territory during my life here inMilwaukee. The other one was going to Bluemound Road and the other one was going to Mayfair Road to try toaccess shopping and other things over there and businesses. When I look at this what are the outcomes in thefuture and Ive heard that word here a lot. For future generations to come beyond my life, maybe beyond most of your lives. And, I look at this as in terms of outcomes, is, what are we going to do to accommodate the increasetraffic thats going to continue to occur? Today, if you come down the highway and you get off on Rawson Road,if you get off at College, if you get off at Ryan, especially for me, it is very congested and we need better meansand access to accommodate that increased traffic. Otherwise, people are going to wait in line and back full ontothe expressway and they do all the work that they want. This also accommodates the traffic that will occur on27 th Street. 27 th Street to me is Oak Creek. I look at it as an Oak Creek initiative. Sure, theres stuff on the other side of the road, but what is it for us as residents of Oak Creek? So, when I look at it thats one of the things,increased traffic. And, theres going to be a need for increased access routes if were going to stabilize thattraffic flow that we all hope and expect will occur. One of the other thoughts was theres going to be theopportunity and we have to continue to encourage growth. One of the parameters that developers and otherslook at is what is your traffic availability towards the people using their businesses? And, some of you havementioned Brookfield Square and Bluemound Road, to me, those are disasters. Many of us avoid those even

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though there may be something out there we want to do or meet some friends, because it is a zoo out there.The other issue is that were in a very competitive market as a community. We see the flow to the west. We seethe flow to Brookfield and all those developments out west of us. We need to look to ourselves and look out for ourselves for development down here because there are attractive opportunities. We dont need to foster development out there by consenting to not doing whats necessary to build accessibility for our people. And,the last thought was that this has an impact on property tax in the future. This could have a positive impact andprobably help keep that tax rate stable versus letting it continue to escalate because of normal inflation. So,those are some of the things. I initially had some questions about this in my mind, but the more I thought about

this and reflected, the more I thought that this is something that we need to support for the future and now is thetime. Sometimes, Mayor, it gets lonely at the top in terms of being a leader. Sometimes leaders all have tomake some bold decisions and thats what we expect you to do as a resident of this community, is to make thosebold decisions. But, in behalf of not only what were looking at today or the next tax bill or the things that aregoing to happen within three or four or five years, but out there in the future and what I call the futuregenerations. Because, thats where Im focusing. What are my kids and grandkids going to have to enjoy andbe supported by. So, those are just some of the off the top thoughts that I had when I looked at this.

Mayor Bolender: Sig, I thank you for that bit of information. Because if you cant see farther than your nose, youshouldnt be looking any place. Because, you have to look at life, you have to look at growth in the City. And,were not asking the taxpayer and I want zero tax increase this year in the City of Oak Creek. Were looking at afuture of a City and when youre in the round, or I should say realm of, lets see, where should I put mybusiness? Should I go to Brookfield Square? Should I go to Oak Creek? Should I go to Franklin? That comes

up every day. People they want to come to Oak Creek and somebody says Oak Creek is growing Its growingbecause people like it here. We have a lot of good things.

Sig Tomkalski: And the face of life is we all want to get where we got to get quickly. And, sometimes if you try togo out to Bluemound Road or something, you might as well spend time just jiggy-jogging around and thencoming out of there. Same with 76 th Street. There are certain avoidance things that we all have by nature.

Mayor Bolender: Cant compare Oak Creek to 76 th Street.

Sig Tomkalski: No.

Mayor Bolender: Theres no comparison. Oak Creek is a very unique city.

Sig Tomkalski: Right. Okay, well, thank you for listening to my comment.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you. Does anybody else have a positive or a minus, come on up and speak your peace.

Steve Perrigo: Good evening, Mayor. My name is Steve Perrigo. Im here today representing the SouthSuburban Chamber of Commerce, which represents both these communities, Oak Creek and Franklin. One of the reasons Im here is two years ago we passed a Resolutions of the Board of Directors endorsing thisinterchange. At that point I happened to be the President and therefore my signature is on that Resolution thatcame out. We continue to support 27 th Street and this interchange. One of the things that I bring to the tablewith this is not only 130 businesses that are in Oak Creek alone that are part of our Chamber, but we havebusinesses all the way from the Walmart and Sams Club all the way to the new hospital on 27 th Street and asyou know, also, the Oak Creek-Franklin School. This district is on both sides of 27 th Street, so theres a realbenefit for the community of Franklin to the school district as well. In addition to that, the Chamber has recentlybeen talking to Alderman Olson who is on the 27 th Street Steering Committee and while we cant have a member on the Steering Committee itself, we have appointed a full-time representative from our Board of Directors towork with the 27 th Street Steering Committee to enhance that area. Northwestern Mutual is part of the Chamber now, as a matter of fact, the current president is an employee of Northwestern Mutual, so we have a realcommitment from businesses up and down 27 th Street to see this kind of growth and to work with Oak Creek-Franklin for this growth to occur. So, without repeating all the other things done, we do endorse it and we arewilling to work with it, with both communities and with your 27 th Street Steering Committee as much as we can.So, thank you.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you, sir. Anybody else have any questions or concerns?

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Christine Aski: Christine Aski, 1709 W. Drexel, and Im the person that the bulldozer is going to run right throughmy living room. Now am I being selfish by saying, no I dont want this? But, everybody else around here cansay, oh yeah this is good, this is good, because it doesnt affect everybody personally like its affecting me. Thisis my home and my business. Ive been there 16 years and I had no inclination or desire to ever move, and I stilldont. So, am I being selfish? Anybody?

Ald. Bukiewicz: No youre not. Not at all. Unfortunately, sometimes youre in the wrong place at the wrong timeChristine.

Christine Aski: Yup, I guess so.

Ald. Bukiewicz: I can offer my condolences or apologies. Wont make you feel any better.

Christine Aski: Right.

Ald. Bukiewicz: And it may not change demographics of where you live.

Christine Aski: Right.

Ald. Bukiewicz: But, no, youre not wrong to feel selfish about it. Not at all. And, youre perfectly entitled to that.

Christine Aski: Okay, thank you.Mayor Bolender: Thank you.

Carl Scherbarth: Carl Scherbarth, 1800 W. Drexel Avenue. My house was in the northbound freeway. It wasmoved to where it is now. Now itll be next the ramp. Youve talked about depression. The Mayor mentionedabout that. If you look from here down to the Kenosha line, I think youre not taking into account is theres agood chance for the next two years of a negative growth. I dont know if theyve accounted for that or not. Now,itll probably take you three years to get back out of that. Something you should think about. Drexel Avenue,one of my concerns is, again, living there, theyre saying now theyre going to make it into a Boulevard, thefreeway, what are you going to do with the bridge because the bridge is not a boulevard, does not haveboulevard capabilities, thats just a standard two-lane bridge. Is there going to be sound barriers put in for theresidents there? Something to keep the noise levels and what are they going to do about us having to make aright turn out of our driveway and a right turn into our driveway? Weve got a bunch of concerns there. Am I100% against this? No. My house was moved once before, so, Ive lived here for 60 years.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you, sir. Does anybody else have questions or concerns?

David Donovan: David Donovan, 1801 W. Drexel Avenue. At this point, Im not for or against it. I really dontcare weve been dealing with this for so long. My question is, if they put the ramps in, none of us want to livethere because its going to be downright dangerous, is there going to be a problem with us industrial and gettingout of there? Because I would be three houses off the freeway and theres no way Im going to go in and out of my driveway with traffic going on and off the ramp.

Mayor Bolender: That would be a State question and the State would handle that. They handle on ramps, off ramps.

David Donovan: Right, but we live in Oak Creek. You would have to tell us if we can go sell our propertyindustrial.

Community Development Director Seymour: Yeah, I think, this Council cant stand up and say that it will dosomething or the future Council will rezone your property, but I think you can make your own conclusions thatland adjacent to a freeway interchange, especially if you got together with the property owners in the area tocreate a marketable piece, its consistent with the Citys vision that the areas surrounding its gateways andinterchanges should be, not be zoned residential, but should be zoned some type of business.

David Donovan: So, that is an option?

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Mayor Bolender: Yes.

David Donovan: Okay, my next one is, is there a time-frame on this? Because weve been given the deadline isthis and they extend it, they extend it, they extend it.

Mayor Bolender: Theyve extended that thing so many times, I have no idea if there is or isnt.

Community Development Director Seymour: Well, and maybe we can relay this to Pat who may be with us

shortly, phone meeting late this afternoon said he did speak with the, somebody, and the state is getting verylate in the game and the Federal Highway Administration has to certify, essentially, the States plans for the 94project. And, its quite frankly, very late right now and youre right we did get our deadline several times and Idont think thats really been a testament to the people whove been working to keep this as an option for the Cityand to present the facts to you so that you can make an intelligent and informed decision based on the facts andthe financial projections that you have tonight. So, the time is very short. I dont think that the City has anyinterest in drawing this out any further than it has right now. So, I think that if this Council chooses not to look atthe MOU favorably, I think that would send a very strong message to the DOT and the Federal HighwayAdministration that that would be off the table.

Mayor Bolender: If you look at Highway C, Highway 50, 142, Highway 11, Highway 20, theyre laying out all theon/off ramps already. I was just down there Sunday and when we went down with the truck, I looked and went,okay boys you got this all laid out. Oak Creeks last. Youre going to get one shot. The next shot says cut your

throat. And, weve got a choice to make here. And, they want us to do this. And, I think its a good thing as Ivebeen saying, once I knew who paid for it. But, the point is, its all laid out. Take a ride towards the state line andyoull see all the on/off ramps are laid out already and they cut them out through the farmers fields and theyvegot this all just about laid out.

David Donovan: How does the State feel about the ramp? I know originally they told us they dont care.

Mayor Bolender: I think the State wants to see it. Because, itll bring businesses to Southeast Wisconsin. Themore businesses you drive out of the State of Wisconsin, the higher your taxes are going to get. For the City of Oak Creek, every time we lose a business, you can look at higher taxes. Houses have kids, they need cops,firefighters, schools. Businesses support a city. The more businesses we get in the City of Oak Creek, as in theState of Wisconsin, the better off we are financially for your taxes.

David Donovan: Like I said, Im not for or against. I can go either way, but if it comes in, I want out of there.

Mayor Bolender: I would, too. I agree with you 100% and Im sure somebody would like to have the land rightadjacent to that, so that is not a problem.

David Donovan: Alright, thank you.

Mayor Bolender: Okay. Anybody else?

Dan Jahn: Dan Jahn, Trillium Terrace. Ill try to be brief, the TIF dollars, where do they originally come from?

Community Development Director Seymour: The TIF dollars have generated by the increment, most notably thenewer development that has taken place within TIF 7 has taken place from Colonial Woods Condos, the LibertyProperty Trust Development to a certain extent, Virginia Place Condos as well as some general inflationaryincrease within the district.

Dan Jahn: Theres not a single penny of tax money in there, taxpayer money? I just want to be clear.

Community Development Director Seymour: Well, everybody in the district is a taxpayer and theyre not payingany different tax rate than you are, its just that the taxes that they pay, based on, lets say they developed a tenmillion dollar, just throwing out a number, corporate campus, the difference between what they pay on that tenmillion dollars versus the difference that they would pay taxes based as a farm field, that money goes back intothat increment that were talking about, to pay for those improvements. So, theyre not paying any more or lesstaxes than you are, but theyre paying based on the value that they put in there.

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Mayor Bolender: Thats businesses. So, the taxpayer who lives over, where I, at our farm, youre not paying for that. That increment or that district is paying for that. So, you come in there and build a business and you bringin the ten million business, you make left-handed pipe wrenches, youre the one whos paying for the TIF, andthats the whole idea. The taxpayer living on 5 th Avenue or living on Carroll Court isnt paying for it.

Dan Jahn: Okay, and I just want to mention something and I know youve done a big switch-around, but I guesswe were both published in Thursdays paper, but you had mentioned, you were quoted in the, that section, whatis it, the Now section, concerned that the money be used for things in Oak Creek. As Im standing under this

asbestos, that $500,000 could really help City Hall.

Mayor Bolender: Well, were just going to give that asbestos a coat of paint and itll be fine.

Community Development Director Seymour: But, Mr. Jahn, you could not use that $500,000 to repair City Hall.

Dan Jahn: No, I know, but the idea.

Mayor Bolender: I dont know why I was quoted. Ive never met the new reporter. Evidentially, they just takewhat words they want and make a quote out of it, but the whole idea was, the money from the power plant I dontwant to see go towards that Drexel interchange. That money belongs to everybody in the City of Oak Creek.The idea is you can get $0.25 of every dollar direct tax relief, $0.75 towards every road and what improvementswe need. And then you take that increment from the TIF and let that pay for 27 th, the Drexel interchange. And,

as Sig said, you know how many cars are on the road? Every time I ride my motorcycle up and down HowellAvenue I feel like a target. Ten years ago you felt like you were going to the farm market. The idea is, its onlygoing to get worse. We can stop development in Oak Creek. You just put a big gate up on 100, on Rawson, onCollege and people, we wont let them in. We just say, you cant move in Oak Creek. But, people like it here.People want to move to Oak Creek, and you know what? Were going to have more cars and that interchange atDrexel, I wasnt nuts about it until I found out that we didnt have to pay for it. Let the increments on a TIF do it.Thats going to help that 27 th Street Corridor, because, its like roundabouts. You ever see how many peoplehate roundabouts? I know what you mean. I go back to Whitewater and they have roundabouts and I go geez,this little hick town has a college in it, they think roundabouts are just great. Because its different. Its change.And, thats coming. You dont have to like it, but its here and I personally think that roundabouts are the mostdisorganized thing in the whole world, but unfortunately, the State of Wisconsin thinks theyre wonderful, soguess what youre going to get? And, it wont be our opinion, its the opinion of the State of Wisconsin. So withthat being said, sir, you have the floor.

Steve Spidell: Steve Spidell, I own at 13 th and Drexel at the corner there, just, Im all for it. I brought thisproperty fifteen years ago, kind of planning ahead, I could see that someday Oak Creek would need another ramp, and so. So, Im all for it. The property now is zoned residential and without this ramp, possibly putanother five houses in there, which is a suck from the tax-base. With the ramp, Im sure it can be changed to acommercial zoning and, of course, the taxes are going to zoom up, which is fine. But, it will benefit the City and Ithink just in general, Drexel interchange is going to benefit the city a lot, so, with that, Im all for it.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you, sir. Anybody else have any questions or concerns? You know, I should count thisas your second time because you said the pledge.

Unknown: Well Thats not fair. Ive just got a very basic question, here, and maybe our State Representativecould fill us in on this if the State is putting any pressure on Franklin, if Im understanding everything correctly,Franklin brought this proposal the night of this past meeting and said, here, we need you to support this. Whereis their support and what is their commitment to the interchange? Initially, I was under the understanding that itwas going to be 50% that was going to be paid for by the State, 25% by Oak Creek, 25% by Franklin. If Im,maybe Im missing some major.

Mayor Bolender: Well, let me give you a background on that. A couple of years ago we were at a meeting at theCommunity Center and they, Franklin, all six aldermen from Franklin and the Mayor was there, and Tom andthose guys said, Dick, we are going to be with you, and it sounded great and then they changed, a couple of council people left and you know, things change, and I even sent the typed word-for-word, perbatim of the wholediscussion to Tom Taylor, and he said, I cant do anything. Its out of the City, nobodys going to pay for it, thatswhat the Council said. I cant go on what they do. You know? I got to go on whats good for Oak Creek andsometimes you stick your neck out and sometimes you get it chopped off, but Im looking at the future of this

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City. You know, Im an old geezer here, and you know what? I look at the kids. What kids want who are 18, or 17 or 20, its completely different than what I want. And, you know what? I like peace and quiet. Our farm usedto be peace and quiet. Ive got Highway 100, it sounds like Racetrack USA. Every guy with a Honda, or aHonda, sorry, Harley, goes by I can hear his pipes and I go nice, great. When they moved Highway 100 from infront of my house to the back of my house, now I know every truck by the jake-brake theyre using. But, thatsthe way it goes. If I dont like it, mmm out. Which, is a possibility. But the idea is with this thing, Franklins notgoing to help us. I have given up trying to shame Tom and the Council. I went over there and spoke to their council on a Saturday, they had that Council, they had that deal with do they need a full-time Mayor, but it got

around to the Drexel interchange, and I just blasted them and I said, okay, Im leaving, have a good day. I got itoff my chest. I feel better. But, I cannot persuade them and Im not going to sit here and, you know, stamp myfeet and say you got to help us. You know what? This is our thing and I just feel that a big gate so that whenyou leave the expressway, you can only go East is the greatest thing in the world.

Unknown: Well, I agree. Im for the proposal, to be honest with you, but my point is, were doing, having allthese wonderful discussions and from the States perspective, if Franklin doesnt get in, it aint going to happen,correct?

Mayor Bolender: No, it will happen as long as we get in for the 25% that we already overrode my veto because Ididnt like the funding. Now they want that 3% to show our good faith, and Franklin has to come up with that 3%,which they passed 6-0. They said, okay, well throw the 3% in for the better lighting. The better lighting,according to me, is just like fluff. They want to see if were really meaning this or if were just gabbing it.

Community Development Director Seymour: Can I just clarify that and all? The lighting that theyre talking aboutin the MOU says enhanced street lighting. That is lighting that the street would otherwise put in is a base lightingpackage. Without enhanced lighting, its kind of a misnomer, its basic lighting that the state would pay. Itssomething that theyre asking the local municipalities to pick up as a demonstration of their investment in theDrexel Avenue interchange.

City Attorney Haskin: Mayor, if I could to Jims question.

Mayor Bolender: Go ahead.

City Attorney Haskin: It sort of goes back to Steves point earlier, and Representative Honadel can correct me if Im wrong, but this MOU could get adopted tonight by the Common Council and as I understand it, its stillpossible that the Department of Transportation would say, were not going to pick up the additional portion of thelocal cost share. I dont know that there is a firm commitment. We expect that, unless Doug has more up to dateinformation.

Community Development Director Seymour: No, thats correct.

City Attorney Haskin: Okay, so thats still an unknown, but the hope and expectation based upon talks betweenState Representatives and the Administration of DOT is that DOT is now going to pick up that additional $2.8million gap, if the Common Council adopts the MOU tonight. So, youve got $3.8 of City of Oak Creek money,$1,000,000 of enhanced lighting on 27 th Street, and $2.8 of additional State funding to cover what wouldotherwise be deemed to be a local cost share.

Mayor Bolender: But, no way can we get tagged for the other 25%?

City Attorney Haskin: No.

Mayor Bolender: Thats all were kicking 25 and 3?

Unknown: But, my, the point of my question was is it dead without Franklin coming up with the 25%?

Mayor Bolender: No. I feel this way, Im going to stop at that. I dont even know those guys over thereanymore. Oak Creeks got more than Franklins got. Weve got a lake. We will do something with the lakeeventually. But, the point is, Im just going to ignore Franklin, because they come to us for anything, I cant hear you. And, 27 th Street has to be worked on together. So, there will be a time and place where well get our shotback at them, you know, what did you say about the Drexel interchange, we cant do that either. So, we can play

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this game. Its just how much guts you got to do it. And, I wouldnt give Franklin two dimes right now, becausethey arent given me a dime, and were just going to, I just think this is a good thing for the City and its not a riskything and its not a tax increase thing. Right now, the citizens of this City do not need a tax increase from thisCity on their property or anything else. And, right now we have to find ways to cut, cut and cut, so that tax fromlast year is the exact same tax, our portion of it, as last year. We are not going to raise taxes in the City of OakCreek. Whatever it takes to do that, thats what were going to do, because I can scream louder than any of these guys up here, Ill tell you.

Unknown: Thank you.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you. Anybody else have any questions or concerns?

Thomas Kromraj: Thomas Kromraj, 1851 W. Drexel Avenue. I apologize for coming in late and I probablymissed what was discussed. We are definitely for it, at this point, because I dont believe that theres anythingelse thats going in the right direction for us when it comes to real estate, anyway. One of the things Im trying tounderstand is we have Delphi and we have other industries that are in the Oak Creek community that areactually downsizing or have gone. You talk about Oak Creek having a lake, youve got Aleko Foundaries downthere, huge vacant building. These industries that youre talking about that are actually going to come in andtake over these lands and generate the taxes for Oak Creek. What kind of industries are there? Becausetheres not much, Im a truck terminal manager and I dont hear very positive things out there in the communityas far as industry growing, whether its production or the disbursement of materials. So, what kind of industries

are they that are actually looking at Oak Creek and saying hey, you guys really look like the place that I want tobuild a 40.

Mayor Bolender: Doug, before you go, whats the name of the Electric Company and just came in and over atthe, I can never think of it.

Community Development Director Seymour: (unheard) Electric.

Mayor Bolender: I can never think of that. We have people coming to Oak Creek and we have peopleinteresting. You know we had a whole list of them, Penzey Spice wanted to come. The guys at Red Lobster hate me because every two months I write them another stupid letter or call him and they go the idiot from OakCreek is on the phone again, because if you dont chase businesses and you dont get, this is a race. This isntsit back and wait, because you know what, you lose.

Community Development Director Seymour: And, if I may interrupt, before I leave, and I apologize for that, oneof the reasons that they did choose Oak Creek is because of the access, and one of the reasons that youre nothearing tonight or some of the statements tonight all those businesses that are in the North Branch IndustrialPark who are, who gain another point of access and relieve the congestion, or possible congestion from RawsonAvenue, all those businesses in there those are the same businesses that are being courted every day by theFranklins of the world, by the Pleasant Prairies of the world, by the New Berlins of the world. This gives youanother reason to say, yes, I like it in Oak Creek. I can get in my trucks, my employees on to our business andoff our business without having to deal with congestion. And, thats a positive to me. So, I think thats justanother thing for you to consider, because all those businesses in the North Branch Industrial Park, and letsface it, the North Branch Industrial Park is not like the Franklin Business Park. Its not like some of the newer parks where youre there because of all the amenities. This is an older park and a lot of those industries in there,you know, they have choices when they want to expand, and access is going to be a big driver in how theydecide where they want to expand and I think this preserves their access, it improves their access and I think itssomething that looking forward as the future of the North Branch Industrial. I mean, if you think about Racine,how businesses make location decisions and how some, quite frankly, got moved out of North Branch in favor of newer better parks like Franklin, so just another factor for you to consider.

Mayor Bolender: See, what he just said, next time you drive down the expressway, theres a big sign on theEast side that says 500 acres for sale. You know what that was supposed to be? A business park. Do youknow why? They want, they had the land, they sat right on the exit and they said, its cheaper in Oak Creek, wegot 500 acres, we want to build a giant business park because Oak Creek land is too expensive. Do you knowwhat kills that idea? Except we have better fire, better police, better schools, better place to live. Were a better city than, you know, the country out there, and we have to keep that. Because when somebody moves hisbusiness and he gets a deal on whatever acreage he needs. In a business park right off of Highway K or one of

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those exits, thats a temptation. And, we have to have something more going for us. You come to Oak Creek,youre safer, you got a better fire department, you want to have a heart attack in the middle of a corn field, thatsa great idea, except nobodys going to find you until you wife misses you for supper. The idea in Oak Creek,youve got really really good paramedics, youve got a better chance to live on an accident like that than you do,you know, out in the country someplace. And, thats the things we have to use as our selling points, you know,come to Oak Creek, you know, weve got a lot of things going for us. That positive attitude is the best, if youdont have a positive attitude, I dont want to hang around with you.

Thomas Kromraj: Well, I was just curious, again, to what kinds of businesses they would be, if theyd be higher end type, again, Im for it, because I dont feel that we have anything in our area thats going for us in the rightdirection.

Mayor Bolender: Well, higher end, right now we need jobs. And, I dont care if theyre higher end, we need jobsfor the people who live here. And, higher ends really nice, but if you dont have any money, higher end doesntdo you any good, you can go window shopping, but you cant buy anything.

Thomas Kromraj: Well, my thought is technology type.

Mayor Bolender: Yeah, that would be great. You know, that would be great for Delphi. You know theres placesin other states, and Im trying to remember, I read that article, where computer company came in and put acomputer lab or whatever they did there, and it just, the whole town just lit right up with it. You know, and Delphi

is the perfect site because its in the middle of Oak Creek, and you could have multi-use there. You know, andyou dont want high-end shops and high-end, because if people dont have money and jobs, theyre not going tobuy anything. But, if we could produce businesses that would come in, 27 th Street, you know I look at that 114acres and I go, that could be a big deal, its on Oak Creeks side, you can have Northwestern, well take your 114acres, because all they got is the 27 th twin grounds anyway. But, to me, thats the future.

Thomas Kromraj: My last question is, because I truly believe when we bought the house three years ago, that itwas written up, or we were told that its wetland behind us. Im again, I would be joining some of my other neighbors and trying to make it Commercial property, but when its wetlands designated behind you, they dontchange that, do they?

City Attorney Haskin: Its possible.

Mayor Bolender: Its possible, but you have to find so many acres to replace what youre taking out of thewetlands, you know the Butler Gardner Snake, thats the most famous snake in the world right now, butbasically, everybody that has a farm is scared of the Butler Gardner Snake, and then if its a hybrid it means itsconvertible with duels. Thats a different story.

Thomas Kromraj: And, I do drive a Harley.

Mayor Bolender: Oh god, you take care. Anybody else have any questions or concerns?

John Henderson: My name is John Henderson. I dont live in Oak Creek, but Ive been in the Commercial RealEstate business for 21 years and Ive recently been asked to kind of evaluate the Delphi site. Not involved withit at the present time. May or may not be in the future, but I wanted to come here tonight because myunderstanding and whether or not you agree with my understanding in visiting with the staff of the City, is that isviewed as kind of a cornerstone of the City, and I kind of agree with that, but the plant is definitely going to be,need to be torn down. I mean, the reality is, is obsolete, its functionally obsolete, itll have to go away, what willreplace it, which was a good question before, what kind of business is going to come here, thatll be driven bythe market, not by, necessarily, what you or I think should be there, but to make that happen in a reasonableperiod of time, that interchange, and to have help get some influence to what does go there, that interchange isnecessary.

Mayor Bolender: Well, as long as youre kind of connected to them, send them a message from the Mayor.Theres one thing youre not going to tear down and thats that little observatory. Thats one thing thats going tobe tribute to all the men and women who worked at that Delphi site. You know, we can put a nice picket fencearound it and say Dedicated to the men and women who worked at Delphi, brought the space program, broughta lot of good things to the City of Oak Creek. You know, you always need to save part of your past, not run it

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over with a bulldozer, and I think that would be one. In fact, Dale Richards, a good friend of mine, Ive given himthat duty. He worked there for a hundred years. Well, it wasnt a hundred, but dont tell Dale that. And, I want tosave that building. And, I think that would be a tribute to those people.

John Henderson: Not a bad idea. I will carry that.

Mayor Bolender: Well, throw that to somebody.

John Henderson: May have to be moved a little bit, but.

Mayor Bolender: Thats not a problem. Okay.

John Henderson: If anybody has a questions on my comments, Im happy to answer them.

Mayor Bolender: Anybody have any questions for the gentleman? Okay, with that being said, and no one elsehas anything to say.

Lori Walters: Hi, Im Lori Walters. I live at 1900 West Drexel Avenue. I was just wondering, you know, justrecently, we refinanced our house and to find out now its a flood plain. So, now how would that affect?

Mayor Bolender: No. Okay, first, were not going to get into a flood plane at this particular point in time. Right

now its at the Drexel interchange. And, I dont know, you know, how you refinance it or what the flood plain or what that was, thats an issue youre going to have to deal with the City of Oak Creek. If its a flood plain fromthe City, I dont know if the bank told you that, but we cant really go into that this evening, maam.

Lori Walters: Okay, but what about, then, if youre putting up a boulevard, are they going to be putting likesidewalks in, and is that going to turn around and increase our taxes?

Mayor Bolender: I dont know, no. If theyre going to put a boulevard in, then that would be handled in the sameway any kind of City improvement does. And, that just talk to the Engineering Department and they would fill youin on exactly how that would be handled.

Lori Walters: Okay, then my final question.

Mayor Bolender: If the State puts in the interchange, you deal with the State on their portion of it.

Lori Walters: Okay, what about the zoning? Do you think that by putting those ramps in that it might change thezoning at all?

Mayor Bolender: It depends. If somebody would come and want the zoning change, and 25 neighbors gottogether and said, you know, this would all have to change, that would all have to go in front of a public hearingand then the Common Council.

Lori Walters: Okay.

Mayor Bolender: Okay?

Lori Walters: Thank you.

Mayor Bolender: Thank you, maam. Okay, we have two Aldermen yet. Ken you didnt get too much to saytonight, Im sorry.

Ald. Gehl: Just in general, I know theres been some concern about some property value, maybe economiccycles are what they are, theyre fleeting. Things go up, they go down. Right now things are kind of muddlingalong, but, as we move forward, obviously, these projections on these tax increments will be born out. But, Ithink really, the Council needs to step up here tonight and really show its support for this Memorandum of Understanding. I think its going to be a strong signal to the State that the Citys really interested in investing initself. I think its going to serve as a catalyst for development and tax revenue for not only 27 th Street, but also for Howell Avenue, for the Delphi property. I mean, Oak Creek has a real opportunity here. I mean, we have

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significant property along the freeway. Very few other communities have that. Its going to be open for development and I really think that we have an opportunity here to move forward and try significant value andopportunity for the City.

Mayor Bolender: Dan B.

Ald. Bukiewicz: This kind of went back to the last gentleman. I think it was Mr. Kromraj, about the flood plains.It isnt out of the question. Its not an easy thing to do, but we did have situations here in Oak Creek where they

redelineated flood plain land. It gets into a DNR issue, so flip a coin on that one. For the folks who do havehomes around there and are wondering about the zoning, its not an issue tonight, but you never know. Your property may be very valuable to a developer like its been spoken about and you may be able to take lemonsand turn them into lemonade for yourself, so its kind of a wait and see thing.

Mayor Bolender: Okay, with that being said, I apologize for my rhetoric, but Im very very dedicated to makingthis City the best it can be with the lowest taxes possible, which we do a pretty darn good job of. We cantcontrol some things, MMSD, so on and so forth, but what the City has done and the way we go about it, I thinkweve done a pretty good job. With that being said, lets move on Item 1 please.

Ald. Bukiewicz makes the motion to accept Resolution 10987-061609, Approving an IntergovernmentalMemorandum of Understanding between the City of Franklin and the City of Oak Creek pertaining to theDevelopment of South 27 th Street Corridor Plan, a Joint Project, City of Franklin, City of Oak Creek.

Gehl seconds.

Mayor Bolender: Roll call.

Ald. Jakubczyk, aye; Ald. Bukiewicz, aye; Ald. Scaffidi, aye; Ald. Toman, no; Ald. Gehl, aye; and Ald. Michalski,aye.

City Clerk Bauer: The ayes have it.

Mayor Bolender: I thank you gentlemen for everything you just put on because this is the future of this City.And, I thank everybody who came tonight. And, I thank you for the input you gave us. Thank you so very much.This will put Oak Creek on the upswing. Lets adjourn the meeting please.

Ald. Bukiewicz moves to adjourn. Time is 7:38.

Scaffidi seconds.

Mayor Bolender: Roll call.

Ald. Jakubczyk, aye; Ald. Bukiewicz, aye; Ald. Scaffidi, aye; Ald. Toman, aye; Ald. Gehl, aye; and Ald. Michalski,aye.

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june 29, 2009, transcript of special oak creek common council meeting

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