journal/book title month/day number of images ° descripton … · item d number °5569 d not...
TRANSCRIPT
Item D Number °5569 D Not Scanned
Author
Corporate Author
Report/Article Title <-)ra' Testimony of Dr. Kenneth D. Crow, November 14and 17, 1980, Witness for Dow Chemical Company2,4,5-T/Silvex Cancellation Proceeding
Journal/Book Title
Year 000°
Month/Day
Color D
Number of Images °
Descripton Notes
Tuesday, March 19,2002 Page 5569 of 5611
OQb/ fL/ ? fis r
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to push, it any higher than .that.
Q So, you really don't know at what stage in theii
chemical process the explosion occurred in the Coalite!
incident, do you?i . •' . ' • • " ' - .
A Perhaps I could put it differently. What I1 ' '••
don't know is .that Derbyshire and Amsterdam had,, the same
amounts' of TCDD formed; of course, I don't, I agree.
MR. BO2OF: I think we can take a break right
now.
of 4:00.
JUDGE riKCH: Let's come back at five minutes
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
JUDGE FINCH: Back on the record.
> MR. BOZOF: I'd like to hand you a cross-
examination exhibit. This document is entitled "Investi-
gation of the Immune Capability of Workers Previously
Exposed to 2,3,7,8-Tetrachloroclibenzo-para-dioxin, TCDD*
by Dr. A* Mil ford Ward. '•' •
This document says Strictly Confidential", but
that is not Dow1s stamp of confidentiality, it is not
claimed by Dow to be confidential, and all the names of
the patients involved have been blotted out. '
JUDGE FINCH: Let's marl: this 1480.
(Whereupon, the document was markejd. Cross-examination Exhibit No.1488 for identification.)
NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1330 VERMONT AVENUE, NW
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4. • ... > k.- - '..-.. ,. ••. .
. . • • - Nv:: .£. •'/;'::•: ' ' ' ; 17221
BY MR, BOZOF:* • . . ' « ' ' ' • *
Q Are you at all familiar with this study?
A Yes, X am;
Q Are you free to— well, let's turn to the
first page.f • •
A The. fact that I've gotten to do, in effect, or. . . :;'- •»'S •* . •
have this work done again, doesn't in any way inhibit met
from speaking about it, no.
Q Now, on the first page, there is an indication
that th.3 immune capability of three groups of adult_ . - . - • • '
males was examined, is that correct?
A Yes. ' '\'; Ul
Q And one group was exposed, to toxic levels of
TCDD more than ten years previously, showing clinical
evidence of toxicity in the form of chloracne?
A .That's Group C.
Q That's Group C, and I might say that this Group
C was not inked in by EPA. We received the document from
Dow in .this manner.
jDo you agree that that is Group C, from your
knowledge?
A Yes, that's Group C, and the others are Group
B- — number 2 is Group B and 3 is Group A.
Q And Group B_is the group exposed to TCDD, but
not showing evidence of dermatological toxicity?
NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
133Q VERMONT AVENUE, NW
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A That meant no chloracne. It meant that they
v/ere round about the place and could conceivably have
cone in contact with TCDD or not, nobody knew; they were
an intermediate group.
Q And the third group, Group A, were the unexposec
controls?
A That's right, who were apparently said to be
certain not to have come into contact with it.
Q Uow, the only numbering on this page is the
number in the right-hand corner of these pages, and I
think it's page 046708 that I would like to. draw your
attention to.
A I've got that. There's a lot of underlining on
that page.
Q Again, we received the document in this form,
from Dow. llo\%', tile second paragraph states that "Test
Group C shows a significant increase in the proportion of
cases with reduced levels of Imraunoglobin D and Immuno-
globin II, and this group shows an increased proportion of
cases with depressed PHA reactivity".
Now, this suggests that there was some immuno-
suppression of the group that was exposed to TCDD and
cxiiibited cliloracne, doesn't it? ;'
A This is debatable. These results have been
discussed with two people v.-ho certainly know a great dealNEAL R. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERSVFDUOWT AVcunt uw
.«W.»9;i
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..wvK'&fWtir*
SSfeS?sJ!-fiv^!-£ \9Jsft.
fama
A V ' S ; ^^^
i^-:-/-'.;\,,;.pi€¥;d- ; v.;t e ^ « : : v ' •
"about''this — one is Drl-s ata Mfr:' '.-.
pother is Professor Irving;;Selikoff, and
'i:both"' of those — I am not an'fexpert .on
evaluate it. I have to?'go'*to'"other people:&r-r_,'. . - , , , . . - . • • . | *>,~:t^>:«M£*i.f>V: ?>,.• ' *• ^ .........;:
.what they think.4itt'*^v;.--;£- ' •• -m?tt:*'<- •'-. '••. 'ttArV^'V !'"'•'• - • " -I . • ' ".
"to ::;i'.-v -.. And also.
- rW' •"''*-* . . « ' " ' • « ' ' " ' ' ' I ''"• • - 4lhad t o .look a t . t h . _
what the slight changes,; inean.\And•
. of the^i »J ~ '''~*'^"1. ' "ViV''"t*lv
. . . i : ' - - ' J : « ' ^_ - • >Honor, say anymore than;,,tuiat, frankly;
.f.;the;extent of anything J^can^say about
W'«K«iv^'..: ' , • - . • _ , • . ' ., •;-*;*"«>ecause I don't understancaii^Y^J^fy;ye£.to be guided byIlll ; V" ' " ' ' " ' " • ' . - -v ' , • '"'••'-''K'^'t^
: i|ft§v'7:^
, *. 44-details
I|^-::-^-^;WIkying/'thai
, f.^,5/ -gills'"' - .. '-i^^y^'-p^.;.-:
?vj.s;;that why did they do jjnraunocflobulins." i 'f V-'n''!"^ '"•- ,' ' ••"•>-"•' • •"- -*•
;w^>^,-• ...... . . . '-f^f^/' ., • .-!(B~cells witn phytohemagglu^inin and tnen^ omj||
'^mff^A'
l^p->|pl ?'':;f• • : So, there are a*ipit'"bf things^To^-c;;' ' s«>;i:^ • ^ ?|M | i i:!l*- >^•V^f'^^ - ^&>v,\ . S--%v^^^^^^4;-''•:.'•-•.?/>•;«and;.I think this is why everyone feels that iit;.shpuicf"be
^repeated. I don't want to be in the s 1 ightest;! degree ^ ;•
^.obstructive, but I cannot corament on any details^'in/tnis.
I regret to say,NEALR. GROSS
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS1330 VERMONT AVENUE. NW
r»n->»
^^j^l^p
s^^3^^^
lf&f-y~.v •• '"--.'V^V-- it«?lpf;;*;%^;<^pK-'•• ':Tt:>?ra»'t;S*-'f:'tiMt-'^Sy^fy'--l««feAl'i
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fill
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fir cporfcT some£ fteparturel jip? W}*VTv w#r fi\Sfi£ iu
normal!
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feparturel
I'.l^'-fi-l- 'W1- !*,•.«» .f,T5W-!
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. " • • . ' t i i 'i.t'j'idffc'^t'Air.u^.^/?!
:ani
referf&Grot
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(Correcl
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.die
-.* i'* «.'• - . ' ' ' • , ' _ 'f « '• f'' * '' 1!
' '" ' ' " ' ' * ' '
:nprmal :a.n some ;;i
:ror
>ebpJil(KvSF,.i!,te&m&
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called normal in
. BOZpFs
The witnessi can correc
it's up to counsel"tOh
asked him whether tit
question.
' " • « ' • » '» '• "ni * ..- „ "i (i -./i • - H. <• >•>'}'•*" {V-»«u*-:f;the witness,, could, pro•fjivrV .' ..V7.J-' -- *>-v^i^^rv,fc>ivM'^k^-f-\'':--i\^-^;:^^3iftfife^
^^^BRSSGjS^WiW*^^^ •*-T'A1"K)T^.A.v-:V' .,.. ---?*!, ,
dpd^repQxftatf departure! from • normal;ijO.uO : -ffi*MiV:ai 3»r:M»lW'«^ -'.-.iix./^,'.'.,i,-, •',... _• ....(
. .in at least one immuno.
• 'HW-:1:**""''-*? /loracne,
cases with Igb levels'Tol. , ^ - ... AiiKJj xi.
»ti«| ,gw ||oj derstand
tliat IgD is something'""• aboutiwl•* . , - . - . . . . . . . - • .. - .. ... -,-...-'i'?si.fe.*f«'fa«'SS*S:*'
.v*<«Sl, or;very littleMSS• . ,.-6.'. - .. . -, . * . . „ , ' .^AWftlli'l.^***^^*
^A'^^^^t-- "''V 'S! • '»* ' T *"' J*'-'"-'^ •«• • J '• ' v* * • #• - • »• ' ,|3^hica virtually; nothing xsi;
jC 'X'i'-'- 'jF'i-» Jt»" .L:«. «_'J*^>A!**,f % M T J .l x. .
departure,from., normal•' f !;••'. fii/--; %|'v r|sI*m told, quite ...una1;i
' '•'''!.-'"•"'"''•'t':""';''C***. "' "'"T I «^' '••,;•;;.;'*:/, -,-.• .'.'••.;,#>/.;•, bO, ± m.; I
••'"•' '-' ••,"(;-:0 .v%j; V X"-:'*-''-''^
before.
•;*•:• :*iil"*-ft->.' 0, • jfc fcT'i "'Jf".».' *.*'.' ?'J' -l>>ilA i ,'' J.VH" . 'i - '
significance"V.of "slight^MaMM^M^m^mm^iiAmi^^ +:.:?$••
expibrt's,' ..
associated with a transfe from T-ce3
1330EPORTERS • ANDI TRANSCRIBERS ; Z.M, I • '*.'• :.?l ^-^^ :t/'...- -.-^sftivvrfwrr1-1'"^*),,..',,.•«-. •" -..,.^,,...iv,'<>;"r'.f'7:;.-v^ V ;.••; .:•':."-. • '•• 'i 'VIRMOMT:AVENUE,"KW.^X;;i^'•;_';>V'^'^yi ; • - " : " • •'
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not known to be. v
• . \ • "•••^:'•' •. '
Q And the author
; , , „ • £V^ls™1»yfl«^«9'wwst*^^these results suggest tuiat;,i5Dxla.iexposure-tcri;,!rCDp -induces. .: o.fi .'dto'adte 'i(S»«&jBs!!i£V. ^
a lasting effect on B-cell jn<
and suggests that the interme
t Group B, which is 'I the groH% ••• - . . . : ,."". ; • A,-; ,• • - ',;V;, s'f%^^ :- MM-,:. >• - . 1 : - :> . • .,r" : « fi*|a#?swiacne, was consistent witlx
// MR. 'SCKROETER: ;-;rqt»
complex and mostly paraphras' '""'''"^i^^
. •. . THE WITNESS: [ I_( co:
•','.•.was just going to" say thatl
'? his opinion, and he' s writtenv.',, *" , - ', - - .';-' ij [-'(Vii'ft'ii' • -"'- •'• iJfrt'-.UArfKj**;,
^ - • BY MR. B02OF:
.- _ , _. .. v'"r<™>v:TW>~! •''•M, ii.'>iw?M<'si««ir-iiV.-1s r;i"i*:: •«••,'•:,••''• «.''»>:'.xw4«*vs,';'«)>.•,-,as far as I know. Yes, it!6sa s.j he
-"''„ ' <A. , , fj,, , ," 'iV'Hospital, Sheffield; that1 s • Saeffxeld: UnivQrsitv'MDepar*---v;; - .
ment of Immunology.-' ,j, '
,-;•. • Q
tests .x?ere conducted?
A Yes. They must haye'.Se'erif——^X^H6^''''tAatr:'thlts;'|^'.,
investioation took from April/ 1977 until e««-*—™^«-- to^e•* *• ^ ./' •. ..".V/j •;*'. •-'•-' . . .. .-. . .,. .i
so it was v/ithin that span
*%ti£k
gm
J^P^S^jffKv.fi y*--.^. *.\a,l. ii'-?j
s#ȣ&'i*
vv,: VJ t.ff^li</v;l
,'»">&>Itti
NEAL R..COURT REPORTERS
VFRMONT AVFNIIF
•••W--''-;*?'f>,v--'.£..••"••"-•'.'•'- "" _^ -A*'
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Rlo'ng-*! a' sting': e f£e ct; vpn/'ce'rltain .r immuno lo gi c~'>^gg ** ...:
espect? .
ifard's view"' " ' ' ' ' "
surely/': "as"'"'i-j.-; • - • • • • • - " ; • •.i.'-.-'i"^•••J? '" '• '•• '" "".'•v.s.--^
••-';;•;•••;:
your attention,-.'^,v«-^sj.j.V-"•--'.?i-vi •*••- »* 'J.XJVC5 . n-» u.j.ej.w --jfyujL a
^^PK^f?^^^*^f*W^ ' -, - -*^ :i ^^W^^^^ ' «^ -•^p^r;;^^tness^stateraent^gyo^,gite an article
;J1l-Tl —*• dp* A« .*~'«M -* *' •"»' i • ^WktXi '*. « ' j£ • ivn. ^h^^BB Jtk'^i"' **!• T^ •'*'?/••'. Vii'^*.*^' - . «j J «L» -•> •. •_ ' •% M»4*
V •- -'.LK" -"j,^.r, ^ .^ - ' * •<?"" ;.v - .---/• ^,; -•,. ' V'VrV»t«:-tf,^i^^l'i'-%<i>^*^v^}*f!*v*w^^^ • . - ' Tr
JReference^;iReppsitoryf'.Vana^he0jtitle is Hearl
"•.'.',"'-."•,.:V.yVi/iV.'.;, ; ; . • ; ; • • . ; - . ' . • • • ; . . , • ' • • ' ; • ' ^"•''C'ff^te^^r;'"-•'•";.'-'.-?,>s',;.i.v;;. .-'\-.;:..;.-,;!,: • - •••;•::<'.••• , '••\'i'v'-,.-.!.V;i'X^%A{*?*T'<-.>'.IAI1C, ;Lyon, 10 and 11 January 1978. Is that^
:'^^'^^ft--:-'-^nfe-;'^^:^^Reference "23 'that' you"Hayef^ix
.'•'^.ri'^'s;:^'"':--"--'-;,'•'„v;^\v• ",:'iu- -,^w;Ms 'ift>S^^•••KW+Y'^'&X 'f',;:..- 'f.-#..',;'-^- -"'is-- ;.i ;:' - ':."- \^Sf^t*^^t ,>'
•- „'•;:,','.••'.'"•• n I - . ml.-Jut» «.i _vo- ' -"V.;-.—':-:'..-'* s right, : ' ' ' ' ' • '
10 and 11
V::--i':rg;NEAg,,R,|GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
. 1330 VERMONT AVENUE, NW
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think that's about
unions, the study that !
was discussed;*here namely, "that:5 by Dr. Ward on immunolbg-
aiflJr. MA Tr'' /-i- _.. J_ J- ._ ___ .V'3* 'I4.-Vt"*''.''i J -C _ L!i:'- .'' _J _1J! _^ * L __ '- •_ _ * •* _• * «• * *w *N • —' /"'
*r^'^^r&i&^^ Ward .examined there, in
•••"•-•£gattonsj/f was' that 'taken from;'":*'"™'
-^'^^ you 'spoke earlier?
tion of the men working
at the Coaliteyplant that you meant when you said Friday
do that study? ;•
trade union, is that the
"'~!fi!fpeople working in that "
...>.,,,,.-. ,,.,.,.-„... ...••I'th re''are"two'/trade unions under whose —
whose members make up the total work force involved,
Q ; And is that re-study that you mentioned that you
were going to embark upon when you get back home?> f
A ^ Yes, it £s. Ifve got to discuss it with the
NEAL R. GROSSCOURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1330 VERMONT AVENUE. NW
•^K^\-f'^''. Sff$fy.:W;:- •
a'-1.'- -\--;..*r. -*< .;•
brPI-that?:pure^»..#¥AwC't.iiW'*v',,jI/ ,ij-ft! jy* "• 'i , ._ , . •'-
icidencep?SOiro^K^ 'in"
kWS ^ rf^"»»«««» ^***»J Vn *-»**** « JL f ****' i '.i-Vl«%'.(<' «T«Mk «••<•« '- '*S».»^**V'~J Vk«^^lv»O -'"' ''''>*' -V'.'.I *":'."»''-''/• ' ,'
COhryes73 I*-yeygotPit:f; Thank' 'yo«;^^^v^>^:.' ^^rSgfe^P^^M^!^^ :^r':•:..;' -••, Xtik^?V.:^:^$<^/^^ ,
Now, this work; done by ,Dr. Ward ,bf the C.. - '-^r'V«-^;\"-,wr!^K^i;«\t,^.^-^.vT^f^ i,-.-w«^ji/i'C- ;•"••."....• ;'•! 'T:.;;, : . -
Coalite
' examihirig drops of"workers, first
blood only, is that correct?
ft!m-
' *'"T!
lit
.:*sill
' ' • ' ' • r ;
'*. <'• -;' C -'.''';i
'"•f-' 'S
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And was his Immunological inves
' '•.* ;- 3t>T!^•"••\ ';'-f:\:<~X&$>
f-'-:'0 :•f;:":::::!.:.\:-%fffi
men.themse&yes
HM?#ttK-rti
'.- i .-•«•:• - ^ r.' ^ iTO.aK v - Ji ijOT ira j ir .. ! . -':-: BWRW''a*«iMW W>V-iV'lv4 ;'.' 'a number; of other things fin fact, that were done wxth thes"
fejls
things were
r-''i''' ' ..... . . - ''•!' ' - "--ir-were the sam' '
e1; trade unon•
'•»••/. ' .' ^ .".' " r*C'*'*'<!«w>-^'"r5-Vf«s«4i»'f-KT-';''.,;iwu-!!Ti_s; study that'fl^fre^resented,,;,,.
""""in" addition ''to'.wna'tfwa;'s'" donein a fashion by Exhibit;fcl488Vt i'• :••'• ' •••-•\ll.:.-~'.!.>:$V'!l:.",••£<;<%• :t v -Xf'- TO i si* ;' - - • - ' . " i * - . ^ ^ -•<•••
: ^ ^ ^ ^ i ^ |V;v•.J~ the immunplogical ihyestigation and the ;look at the.,
am .infprmed^by;^5X^ colleagues^pbutt^l^^,^^;
reallv''essWtxalTt6V:doi:Shrieiel::tvpes -»- to atta'ck^the/'tjrobl)V; -v. ?^?^m^l^^' • •'::^^:^mi^i^^^:^i^
in three ways^^ And^th_e.|ithju|d way is by the skin responses;.-;-•-'-.;'...i-'-V-' - VS Stfe -- ' • •••,» 'fe !JiS - .v»:V-.!-;•;
''?'M^^^0KP^ ''-:•-:to injected antigens, of;which there is a whol'et grbup —
I don't think it's reiey tfto go into the nature of them,^
Your Honor, and the response* 'or non-response,*'as;thet case
may be is a factor which'has ,to be taken into consideration
• ' • ' ' . f:''^•:'^'::'^:,''-'^. ^ ' C ; COURT RII»pRTIRS AND TRANSCRIBERS
1330 VIRMONT AVENUE, NW
m:m
1121
ftlftifc&MAt-
unrelated to these
|pfvrf:'jv;;Q Now,
with asseries of
would consider
oil* get tp doing•sill/*i.srv;1 T-1 > ,. ...' ."..•. : .. •, , ' , ..
..tes ting ,;.
ff ou^ban^t "do"1' "
Ey Mr. Bozof that-
doubt that they'
that Dr. Ward had prbduceojt*fe &•• i- '. 'i -V; ' • »]• •'..vJ.'«fc'ii .SWA.-. ' .AtSLssM
sented by Exhibit '14\B§'-"• ' - - • • • • • • - , .,',,-<: »t.|[.:-''*ja« i|!
sorry"-, . -'-,* H^V-~'<f
not; correct, .1 think:
;|>retation.' ' ' '
. _No,
,that I understood your testv 'v; • -- - - - i' i^ftyf^j^?->W!MV'?i *.&t?'3* ii'W^-Xvf)''T.f^v^v^f^tS^^^T/'-v,^*'~r •.'•*,^ /-K?-' :•-; ,.--.i^:.;-j'.t>;.%
and Dr. John Moore had saia;;;thatl-rToa:;'have7saidj that,they•i ~\-,.l^ . - ,?'>£^:S}Mi&iUPifin\&'f**fftf&^\s!r'&jfa ;i:.:',i -,':,..&<>''-'4'& «„.*'
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
•»?*!•9
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my-
is Jpril Selikpf f and'""' ''
m: Doesn't
Hwe*fcafxnot:
.researbh 1aboratories
it Mt»-Sinai Hospit
••^.JApore'
• " •'••."M'jpf-jrt-irv?1^"i*f.'iv '" ."rs-^x' "\ » • " '' .>' '*-' -
Moore's/position is'vJi'f' S- v'• • *'v-* .'''J v'j iii ji1 'fVj. '-' v. '• - >-v'vVl'•'"''F(i«H' \arV"V'^V^VVr- •• rs'' '''o • v '• ' • ' -'*
experts on the whole subj•i\sj»' • - ••'U'-'V.-^j, -:" - , , - , ; ' '"•• " v?'1
BisAnd he and his co-workers"^jS^'&4/sSt\!£ *'; V-'.^ ;*•''•'*:''" . ' • • • , - . . " . '*^$^fex-$$$£<fi<^'~-:>' • '' '• "'-Am*^i-':*- ' t ' f •£"''• *»•-f ^','-•'•'. •''-^•'V. i' **'"' ; : "" " ' '*i "i '-
' ^ ff;-Q->||8||Dr";/John Mpoire
Inter-Ag'en"icy'',.,Work Group
the President?
-,,;f, '"A '.' .'•.;/ Yes, that is
the department when
there .last, and this was discussed,,; *
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Dr'i! McCoiinelli ;:f 6r > example"!i- -vMt&f'.MA' **i A'^^'JUiidiWn1^!,!'. •**«•'•^1i^Vt;f^vV./-JSferf'SV-:..'i]!»,.,*? .--1-/ L'..*~. ^l>j i f ^ .<
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COURT RIPORTIRS AND, TRANSCRIBERS
that long ago
effects. -~::;of:, certai
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