Louisa Interview 5-4-11

1. [00:00:00.00] Jen: … as we can understand, a little decrepit. (both laugh) But –

2. [00:00:05.18] Louisa: Smells a little –

3. [00:00:06.23] Jen: Musty?

4. [00:00:07.09] Louisa: Yes.

5. [00:00:07.26] Jen: Yeah. I don’t think that many people come in here necessarily anymore. (Louisa laughs) Um, but, so you’re a bio major? Is that right?

6. [00:00:16.10] Louisa: I’m neurobio. That’s my major.

7. [00:00:17.18] Jen: Oh cool. Okay.

8. [00:00:18.19] Louisa: Yeah, definitely.

9. [00:00:19.18] Jen: How did you decide on that?

10. [00:00:20.28] Louisa: Um, well, I know I want to go – I’ve been wanting to be a doctor since I was like seven because I really am interested in multiple sclerosis because my mom has it, so I want to do that thing, and I came in as a chem major but then realized I didn’t like it (both laugh) nearly as much as I like bio, so I switched, and neurobio’s kind of the obvious choice.

11. [00:00:42.03] Jen: Yeah. Okay. Very cool. So thinking med school and sort of beyond?

12. [00:00:47.15] Louisa: Right.

13. [00:00:48.13] Jen: Cool, yeah. Good stuff. And you’re a sophomore?

14. [00:00:51.23] Louisa: Yeah, I’m a sophomore.

15. [00:00:53.04] Jen: Okay. So I guess I sort of know a little bit of the gist of 207, but I’m curious as to, like, anything you have to offer about 207, like, um, what kinds of things are you guys talking about this semester?

16. [00:01:09.11] Louisa: Um, we just talk about basically like, um, basically learn the evolutionary – evolutionary characteristics that led to why certain things are successful now and how, and then why some aren’t. Like, for example, like why animals are more successful at moving than let’s say fish, or

something like that. Like the evolutionary characteristics and how they built up and how those allow certain things to do some things and not others.

17. [00:01:39.10] Jen: Okay. So what’s – how – what’s your sort of understanding of that process? Like, how does that work?

18. [00:01:47.21] Louisa: I guess I would just probably say that, I mean, like, I’m all into evolution just because I have a scientific mind, so I really believe in evolution and how the characteristics, like, it’s just amazing to me how the characteristics actually are shown, like how they go from things that don’t move at all to, like, small little changes, maybe moving a little, and then bigger changes, moving a lot, to like, how we can run now and stuff like that. Yeah. It’s amazing to me.

19. [00:02:15.08] Jen: Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I was a bio major in undergrad too, so I, I always found that interesting. But, um, in 207, do you guys spend a decent amount of time on, like, phylogenetic trees?

20. [00:02:29.02] Louisa: Mmm, yeah, that was our entire second exam, so unit kind of thing. Yeah.

21. [00:02:36.00] Jen: So one thing I’m always wondering about for people because I had a hard time with it is how do you learn those? Like how do you approach a phylogenetic tree?

22. [00:02:46.00] Louisa: Well, I – I took AP biology in high school, so I’d already learned a lot of what we learned. So for me, it was more just kind of refining what I learned and remembering it because it was two years ago, but I don’t, I guess it just – I don’t want to say memorization, but I try to think of like one characteristic or one character or organism that exemplifies all the traits of the phylum kind of, like, you know what I mean? Like, a –

23. [00:03:18.21] Jen: Can you give me an example, or –

24. [00:03:19.10] Louisa: A squid or a jellyfish, and then I think like what kind of nervous system do they have, what kind of circulatory system do they have, how do they eat, you know what I mean? Kind of something like that is what I try to think of.

25. [00:03:31.00] Jen: Okay. And so you sort of use that organism as like an example in your head –

26. [00:03:36.17] Louisa: Right.

27. [00:03:37.00] Jen: And think about what characteristics that organism has, and sort of build up from there?

28. [00:03:41.22] Louisa: And then, like, think, like, compare it to other ones, like how a squid would compare to a fish or how a squid would compare to a bacteria or something like that. Then you can see the differences. It’s kind of easier than just memorizing the names and the characteristics.

29. [00:03:59.01] Jen: Absolutely. So you were saying 207 is kind of serving as a refinement of some of the AP bio that you took?

30. [00:04:06.28] Louisa: Yeah, I would say I learned probably 75% already from AP bio, so it’s just kind of like do I remember what we’re talking about? (both laugh) I don’t know, I haven’t learned a lot of new stuff, but, I mean, I guess that’s a good thing. Less work to do, just recall, remembering.

31. [00:04:26.13] Jen: Yeah. Are there any differences that you can pick out between, like, what you remember from your AP bio class and maybe how it was taught and then 207?

32. [00:04:34.27] Louisa: Um, in AP bio, our teacher was crazy about, like, remembering every little detail, so she was all about the little details and you had to remember all of the little tiny things. Whereas in 207, he doesn’t want you to memorize the chart or the book. He wants you to understand it and how, like, what we’re learning applies to the evolutionary aspect.

33. [00:04:57.07] Jen: Okay. And so you’re in Dr. Higgins class, right?

34. [00:04:59.18] Louisa: Yeah, Dr. Higgins. Yeah, and Kent.

35. [00:05:02.02] Jen: So when he talks about – or your impression of understanding, like, what does that mean sort of relative to knowing all of the little things? Like, if he’s interested in –

36. [00:05:14.12] Louisa: He doesn’t want you to know all the little things. He doesn’t want you to memorize them. He wants you to know the big picture, and, I mean, like, you have to know some of the small things, but to understand the big picture you have to be able to think about how it relates to everything else that we’re learning, not just think about it as one kind of thing. Yeah, he really – they really, they relate back a lot. Yeah.

37. [00:05:35.19] Jen: Yeah. So what are some of the other things that, like, he’s related the different phyla out to?

38. [00:05:44.20] Louisa: Um, well, we, like, well, right now, we just finished circulatory system, now we’re on, like, skeletal and muscle, and right now, we just – actually, last hour I learned about how muscles work –

39. [00:05:57.09] Jen: Oh, you’re coming right from there.

40. [00:05:58.18] Louisa: Yeah. (both laugh) How muscles work and how they do their thing kind of thing, and we talked about like Hox genes and how we are, I mean, we already learned about that in, like, earlier lectures, like how those Hox genes change how the muscles work in different kinds of organisms and different kinds of phyla. Yeah. So that’s kind of what we do.

41. [00:06:21.06] Jen: Nice. I was talking to someone yesterday who was also in Dr. Higgins’ class, I think not this semester but maybe last semester?

42. [00:06:30.19] Louisa: Mm-hmm.

43. [00:06:31.14] Jen: And he was talking about, um, like the role of physical principles (Louisa looks puzzled) in the phylogenetic trees? Is that something that resonates with you, or is that –

44. [00:06:43.20] Louisa: Not, not overly, not really, I don’t think so. That’s not something that, like, immediately pops into my mind.

45. [00:06:49.10] Jen: Yeah, I hear ya.

46. [00:06:51.11] Louisa: Yeah. Definitely not.

47. [00:06:53.08] Jen: Cool. Okay. Um, I guess I’m just cur – like how, how do you go about studying for Dr. Higgins’ exams?

48. [00:07:02.15] Louisa: Um, I record the lectures –

49. [00:07:05.18] Jen: Record, like, phone or computer?

50. [00:07:07.29] Louisa: Um, my phone – I mean, my computer does it. So I record the lectures and I type notes on, like, I type the notes that aren’t on the PowerPoint, like what they say that’s not reiterated on the PowerPoints that they put. And then –

51. [00:07:24.02] Jen: Is this co-taught with Dr. Jeffrey?

52. [00:07:25.22] Louisa: Yeah, Higgins and Kent.

53. [00:07:27.09] Jen: Kent. Okay, gotcha.

54. [00:07:29.19] Louisa: And then, uh, after I do that, when it comes closer to exam time – well, usually, during the semester, I – we have these study questions posted online, and I make a notecard with the study question posted on it because they’re usually pretty helpful, like, get you thinking

rather than just, like, define X, you know, it’s more questions that get you thinking. I write those on notecards, and then towards the exam, I, like, re-listen to the lectures, and it kind of reiterates everything that they’re saying if I didn’t remember it the first time, and then fill out my notecards as I’m re-listening to the lectures because then it kind of, sometimes they explain the notes, the questions that they put up. And then I, yeah, I just completely fill out my notecards, and then I just go over my notecards.

55. [00:08:16.04] Jen: Cool. So you would say the questions, the study questions that they post are pretty closely tied to –

56. [00:08:20.19] Louisa: Yeah, they’re not like the kind of questions that they ask on the exam, but it gets you along, thinking along the same lines of what they’re gonna be asking on the exam. Yeah.

57. [00:08:30.05] Jen: Can you think of any examples of, like –

58. [00:08:33.01] Louisa: Well, one of the, like, last exam he asked us to diagram, like, I don’t even remember, it was diagramming, like, solute intake into a cell and how that could be different for different kinds of transport, and you had to be able to diagram it, and then that question was actually on the exam. So that was pretty good that I actually practiced that and thought about that because it wasn’t made a major point in the lecture, but it was on the study questions.

59. [00:09:01.22] Jen: Okay. Yeah. Are there ever questions on the exam that sort of end up surprising you based on what’s been covered in lecture?

60. [00:09:09.20] Louisa: No, I don’t think so. I think they’re really fair for what they teach. They don’t, they don’t, like, test you on anything they don’t teach. Maybe they didn’t go into a lot of detail on it, and then they test you on that, but they don’t ever, like, test you on something they haven’t covered or taught. Yeah.

61. [00:09:27.10] Jen: Very cool. Do you, um, like, ever end up studying with other people in the class, or are you more kind of –

62. [00:09:33.10] Louisa: Um, sometimes. Not really, though, because it’s a lot of just making sure you understand it. It’s not really like something where it’s, like, problem solving. Where other classes are better for working in groups is a problem solving kind of thing. Whereas this is just making sure you understand it in your own head.

63. [00:09:49.16] Jen: Yeah. I hear ya. So I guess if, um, if I were, like, someone in your dorm, for example, and I was saying that I was going to be taking 207,

um, next semester, like, what are the kinds of things that you would tell me to expect about that class?

64. [00:10:08.12] Louisa: Um, I would say that it’s pretty light on work because we don’t, we only have exams and quizzes, so we don’t have a lot of, we never have any busywork.

65. [00:10:16.17] Jen: Okay. Like no homeworks, or –

66. [00:10:18.06] Louisa: No. So it’s more just you have to keep up with it yourself. It’s a lot more, like, self-disciplined, like you have to be able to put the time in to study and to figure things out and go ask questions if you have them. But, I mean, it is a lot of memorization, just memorizing and understanding what they’re talking about, kind of.

67. [00:10:41.00] Jen: Okay. And so you would say, like if I, to do well in that class, keeping with that self-discipline and making sure you’re staying up with –

68. [00:10:50.21] Louisa: Yeah, definitely. Don’t get behind on any of the lectures. That’s what I would say. Yeah.

69. [00:11:00.05] Jen: I mean, is there anything in particular, like any issues or concerns you have about the class that you –

70. [00:11:05.20] Louisa: No, I don’t think so. I mean – no, I don’t think so.

71. [00:11:10.00] Jen: Yeah. Do you see it being useful for, um, like what you’re thinking of doing eventually?

72. [00:11:17.07] Louisa: Um, some aspects. I don’t think a lot of us will end up using learning about all of the different phylum besides maybe humans because most of – that class is, like, required for biology majors, so I doubt that a lot of people – I think a lot of people are thinking about going into humans rather than, like, bacteria or animals or anything, but, you know, you can see where it relates when you get to humans, how – if you believe in evolution, and how, where you came from, and how it’s led to where you are now, so that might help you understand the human body more, kind of thing.

73. [00:11:46.17] Jen: Yeah. Yeah, which obviously would be important (both laugh).

74. [00:11:49.00] Louisa: Yeah, definitely.

75. [00:11:51.02] Jen: Definitely. So you were saying you were also taking chemistry and physics this semester?

76. [00:11:55.23] Louisa: Yeah, I’m in general chemistry 2 and then physics 2.

77. [00:12:00.19] Jen: Okay. Is that 122?

78. [00:12:02.09] Louisa: 122, yeah.

79. [00:12:03.09] Jen: Who do you have for that?

80. [00:12:03.29] Louisa: Redish. Yeah.

81. [00:12:06.01] Jen: What are your thoughts on, like, some of those other classes that you’re in?

82. [00:12:10.10] Louisa: Um –

83. [00:12:11.05] Jen: I know we’re kind of spanning out past 207, but I feel like I’ve got a decent sense of, like, how you’re feeling about 207.

84. [00:12:17.20] Louisa: I don’t like Professor Redish’s class at all, but, I mean, it’s however he wants to teach it. It’s just that a lot of people – I know, I know it’s not just me, but a lot of people think that he never actually answers a question, or gives you a direct answer to a question. Like, I think that he’s really smart and that he knows what he’s talking about, but he just doesn’t understand how people are thinking in terms of his class. And he doesn’t actually ever want feedback. He just thinks he’s golden, so – he just thinks he’s already perfected his technique, so it shouldn’t, couldn’t be improved. Professor Kahn, that class is – he’s good, he’s really smart and he usually gives us examples that are pretty much way over our heads, but, like, when it comes to the exams and stuff, he’s fair, he doesn’t really do that. He doesn’t expect us to think like graduate-level chem students. I mean, I’m sure he wishes he could teach that kind of stuff, but yeah, I like chemistry.

85. [00:13:18.21] Jen: Yeah. Okay, so Dr. Kahn is chemistry.

86. [00:13:20.25] Louisa: Yeah.

87. [00:13:21.14] Jen: Okay, cool. And what’s the structure of those classes? Like 207 was more quizzes and tests and things, um, are chem and physics different?

88. [00:13:28.27] Louisa: Um, physics has everything, physics has a lot of homework every week. We have online and turn-in homework every week. And then we have, um, quizzes every week, and we have exams too. So we have everything, a variety of things. Yeah. And then we have participation points for class, like if you go to class, so it’s a lot of points there. And then

chemistry is just homeworks and – well, homeworks, quizzes, and tests, but homeworks only, yeah, homeworks only like 4 times a semester, so it’s not, like, a lot, compared to physics.

89. [00:14:04.29] Jen: Okay, yeah, which is every week. (both laugh)

90. [00:14:06.18] Louisa: Yeah, it’s a lot every week. (laughs)

91. [00:14:09.07] Jen: Okay. And is there any group work in either of those classes?

92. [00:14:13.01] Louisa: Uh, yeah, I work with a lot of people in physics because we, usually his questions aren’t, like, really straightforward kind of thing, so I go to like the Slawsky clinic, which is like the physics help clinic. And talk to my friends about what they are, like, doing, thinking about doing, on that thing. Chemistry, no, I just work by myself usually. It’s not really a, it’s not really a group thing. I mean, it could be, but not for me.

93. [00:14:40.11] Jen: Yeah, no, I hear ya. Um, so it’s interesting that you’re kind of in all 3 simultaneously.

94. [00:14:48.04] Louisa: (laughs)

95. [00:14:48.20] Jen: Um, do you see interconnections between those classes, or are they kind of discrete to you, or how does that –

96. [00:14:57.04] Louisa: Um, no connections to bio. Chem and physics don’t, aren’t connecting to bio at all. Um, physics and chemistry have a tiny bit of, just a tiny bit of overlap. Not really, though.

97. [00:15:12.03] Jen: Okay. And overlap in what way?

98. [00:15:15.08] Louisa: Um, just like when we’re talking about, like, solutions and their properties, we sometimes talk about that in physics, where we go more in-depth in chemistry into kind of that, I think. Yeah.

99. [00:15:32.17] Jen: Cool. And any, so I guess, I mean, you were saying there are some concerns that you have about – you and other students that you’ve talked to – have about physics in particular?

100. [00:15:44.27] Louisa: Yeah, definitely.

101. [00:15:46.04] Jen: What are some of those things for you?

102. [00:15:48.06] Louisa: Um, just that we don’t really feel that he’s preparing us for the MCATs because that class is for, like, biology, like, students – not

specifically for, but there’s a higher level physics that involves calculus, and that’s for like chem majors, and in the lower level it doesn’t have any calc. Last semester I took the higher level because I was a chem major still.

103. [00:16:12.14] Jen: Okay, so you switched just this semester to neuro?

104. [00:16:14.28] Louisa: Yeah. So then this semester I’m in the lower level physics, which is less about numbers and stuff, which, I mean, I understand, but I mean, he has like, helps, makes us do, like, estimation problems where we estimate the amount of traffic on the Beltway, like, that’s not physics, that’s not going to help us on, like, any kind of our exams. And then, like, he asks us all kinds of, like, it’s never regular physics questions, they’re never kind of regular, they’re always like some weird situation, and something weird, like, yeah, he always tries to trick us, so he’s very tricky. He doesn’t necessarily want, he doesn’t want you to succeed in his class. He doesn’t want you to succeed. Like, he was actually mad when our class average was in the 80s. He was like, that’s not how my tests are supposed to be, I’m gonna make sure that’s not how they are next time. Yeah, he doesn’t really want us to succeed.

105. [00:17:12.21] Jen: Okay. I gotcha. Yeah, I wonder where that – okay, I hear ya. Yeah, so not physics in the way of, like, the physics that you know is going to be on the MCAT, for example.

106. [00:17:25.02] Louisa: Right, exactly. And there’s a lot, I would say probably 90% of us in that class are planning on taking the MCAT, so that’s what we’re, I mean, that’s what’s important to us.

107. [00:17:34.09] Jen: Yeah. No, I took the MCAT, it’s an interesting experience. (Louisa laughs) I’m glad that you guys have it on the computer now.

108. [00:17:41.24] Louisa: We have the MCAT on the computer?

109. [00:17:43.04] Jen: I think you could take the MCAT on the computer if you wanted to.

110. [00:17:45.22] Louisa: Oh, really?

111. [00:17:46.14] Jen: To my knowledge.

112. [00:17:47.15] Louisa: Oh.

113. [00:17:48.05] Jen: I think there’s the nasty 8-hour version of chaos that’s just, like, pen and paper. And then I think shortly after I ended up taking it, they opened up a computer version of it that’s like 4 hours or something.

114. [00:18:00.19] Louisa: Oh.

115. [00:18:01.08] Jen: I don’t know. Would be something worth checking out, I guess.

116. [00:18:04.01] Louisa: Yeah, interesting.

117. [00:18:05.21] Jen: Um, yeah, because I don’t know if there’s a particular –

118. [00:18:10.06] Louisa: Advantage or disadvantage to either.

119. [00:18:11.16] Jen: No, not really. But, yeah. How are you, how are you feeling about, sort of, the MCAT and med school and – I know, it’s still early, like –

120. [00:18:24.15] Louisa: Um, I’m taking an MCAT course next semester through Kaplan, and so hopefully I’ll feel better after that. I’m taking the MCAT next spring, so, I mean, I don’t know, I haven’t actually really started studying, which actually sounds horrible, but, I mean, like –

121. [00:18:43.21] Jen: I don’t necessarily, yeah –

122. [00:18:45.02] Louisa: It’s also like something I don’t really feel you can, like, start studying for. I feel like it’s something that’s gonna have to be a commitment, and I’m gonna have to be like, all right, these are the days that I study, or, like, it’s not something I can study while watching TV, you know? It’s not like that kind of thing. So, yeah, I think I’ll have a better grasp on how I’m feeling or doing when I’m in my MCAT course.

123. [00:19:06.09] Jen: That makes sense.

124. [00:19:06.27] Louisa: Do I remember this stuff? Can I relate this stuff? You know what I mean? When I’m tested on it, so –

125. [00:19:12.01] Jen: Yeah. And do you feel, or do you have a sense, like, right now you would say you’re kind of feeling okay about the biology aspect of the MCAT and maybe the chemistry?

126. [00:19:22.23] Louisa: Yeah. Bio and chem I’m feeling definitely okay on.

127. [00:19:25.09] Jen: But debatable with the physics?

128. [00:19:26.20] Louisa: Yeah. Physics is not good. I’m, like, actually getting, like, MCAT self-study physics this summer so I can try to do it, so I can try to survive it.

129. [00:19:38.18] Jen: Okay. And are you seeing the major – again, I’m just trying to make sure I’m understanding – the major difference, um, I guess what is the major difference to you between the kinds of questions that you know are tested on the MCAT versus the kinds of questions that you are having right now?

130. [00:19:57.21] Louisa: Um, just because he doesn’t actually ask questions that are, like, um, like if we’re talking about magnets, he wouldn’t actually ask questions about magnets. He would ask questions about, like, if, per se, there was a magnet in your shoe, would it be attracted possibly to something in the next room? It’s not ever questions that are just, like, here are the concepts. Like, I’m not saying everything should be, like, black and white, but it’s never actual kinds – I know the kinds of questions that are gonna be on the MCAT, and it’s not that kind of stuff. And I know it’s not gonna be like that. And he says it’s because the real world is messy, and it’s not gonna be black and white for you, and I understand that, but you have to have some kind of basis to try to understand something before you can get into the messy stuff. You can’t be learning messy and then try to, like, understand it, you know? That’s why we start at algebra and move up to calculus, like, the messier stuff. Like, you need to have some basis of understanding before you jump into this, well, I guess if that happens, that might happen kind of thing.

131. [00:21:01.21] Jen: Right, right. So sort of like feeling that you need a little more grounding before sort of starting to like reason about more complex questions.

132. [00:21:08.11] Louisa: Right, there’s no building blocks. There’s absolutely no building blocks. It’s just, like, he just jumps to, like, the roof. Yeah.

133. [00:21:16.25] Jen: I gotcha. I gotcha.

134. [00:21:20.14] Louisa: Dr. Redish.

135. [00:21:21.15] Jen: (laughs) Oh, college is fun.

136. [00:21:25.15] Louisa: Yeah.

137. [00:21:28.04] Jen: But, yeah, I don’t necessarily have anything else in particular that I was thinking of. It was sort of just to get a sense of, like, how you were feeling about 207, um, and just classes in general and how they’re syncing up with each other.

138. [00:21:44.18] Louisa: I mean, 207 is just, I like that I get the two different professors, like it’s co-taught, so I do, I do like them both individually, but for different reasons. Like Higgins is really good at keeping your attention about a subject, but not really good at, kind of like, I mean his slides and everything

are not, are usually just like pictures. They’re not anything like solid evidence. So when he talks, I’m like writing down every word he says because it’s never on the slides. But then Kent, a lot of what he wants to say are on the slides, and then you have to really listen to his minute details, but he doesn’t engage your attention as much, so it’s like, you know what I mean? You just have to balance it. And then it’s just hard because, like, usually with a professor, the first exam is the hardest because you don’t know what kind of exam, you don’t know what kind of like, what nitty-gritty questions they’re going to ask, or if they’re just going to be like, overlying themes or any kind of thing like that, and then since it’s co-taught, Higgins – I mean, Kent did the first, like, basically exam, and Higgins did the second, so it’s like, we were ready, we were prepared for Kent’s kind of exam, and it was Higgins’ kind of exam, and I mean, I mean, they’re pretty close. It’s not like they’re complete, complete opposites, like one’s essays and one’s true false, no. They’re the same format, but it’s still, like, harder, it’s harder to adjust when usually you’d be kind of better suited for the second exam if it was the same professor. But since they’re different professors, it’s a little more difficult to figure out.

139. [00:23:16.22] Jen: Yeah, interesting. Yeah. What were you seeing as some of the different emphases? Like could you, you could tell that –

140. [00:23:21.24] Louisa: Oh, yeah. Like, Higgins did a lot more overlying themes, like, he wants you to understand how it related to everything, or how, like, if he told you how one little system worked, then you could figure out how it would work in general, whereas, um, Kent was more about like the little details, and he wanted you to be, he wanted to see that you studied, like he wanted to see that you could understand everything too, but also know like the little nitty-gritties, you know what I mean? Yeah.

141. [00:23:52.08] Jen: I gotcha. Do you have access to any, um, like, practice tests or previous exams?

142. [00:23:58.13] Louisa: Yeah, they put the previous exams online.

143. [00:24:01.01] Jen: Okay. Are those useful?

144. [00:24:03.14] Louisa: Um, yes and no, because they don’t put the answer keys on there. So there are, like, questions, but you don’t necessarily know if you got them right, so it’s kind of like, do you look up the answers? I don’t know, you know? It’s not really something where it’s like, you can, you can take it, and maybe that’ll show you what you don’t know, but does that actually show you that you don’t know because you didn’t really get to see what, what you were getting wrong. So you could have gotten a bunch of questions wrong and not known it, and then, and then you don’t go back and study that, so yeah.

145. [00:24:37.00] Jen: Yeah. And how is their grading? Like, what do you think they tend to grade on?

146. [00:24:42.00] Louisa: Um, they have like, they have like 40 multiple choice usually, which is like multiple multiples, I don’t know if you’re familiar with those –

147. [00:24:49.07] Jen: I am familiar with those.

148. [00:24:50.10] Louisa: Yeah.

149. [00:24:51.00] Jen: Those are painful. (laughs)

150. [00:24:51.20] Louisa: Yeah, so 40 multiple multiples, and then we have usually, like, 3 or 4, like, written-out short answer kind of things. And the short answer is usually worth more than the multiple-choice questions. So those are usually the things that if you’ve come to all the classes, you’ll be able to understand, that you’ll be able to, you know, write, like, fully understand and answer those questions. And then the multiple choice is mostly like, maybe if you didn’t come to class, you could kind of wing it by studying, like, the lectures posted online. Yeah, that’s mostly what they do.

151. [00:25:29.12] Jen: Yeah. Um, so for those short answer questions, like, I guess, I mean, can you think of any examples of, like, how broad those questions are off the top of your head, or like what a full answer to one would be?

152. [00:25:44.26] Louisa: Like, they ask you like, um, they ask you, like, name 3 characteristics, like, why, um, dinosaurs were able to be so large but humans can’t be that large, like why –

153. [00:25:57.06] Jen: Oh, interesting question! Okay.

154. [00:25:58.24] Louisa: So you had to say that, like, like dinosaurs had, like, the development of the endoskeleton and stuff like that. Like, there were, there – like he, that wouldn’t specifically be in the book or anything, that kind of thing, but you had to understand, like, the characteristics that allowed people to be tall, the characteristics that, the evolutionary characteristics that dinosaurs had, that humans have that dinosaurs, like, died, blah blah blah, like that kind of thing. So those are more, like, far-reaching, like, you’re not gonna find it in a book or online. You just have to be able to understand the underlying concepts and then apply it.

155. [00:26:37.25] Jen: Yeah. And then just be able to talk about it –

156. [00:26:40.00] Louisa: Yeah.

157. [00:26:40.18] Jen: In a way that –

158. [00:26:41.16] Louisa: Usually they don’t make you write an essay. Usually it’s like, you know it or you don’t, like, it’s, like, list 3, or, like, describe 3, but they’re not, it’s not bad, it’s not like an essay, which would be painful.

159. [00:26:53.27] Jen: Okay, yeah. So it’s more, is it – would you say those questions are a bit more of a recall rather than, like, you have to explain exactly why? Or a mix of them?

160. [00:27:04.16] Louisa: Um, not really recall because I feel like it’s not something that, it’s not like something where he’d be like, these are the 3 characteristics that allowed, you know, he wouldn’t say that in class, so it’s not something that you’re just recalling, but it’s maybe something that you have to, like, piece together with what you know about other things.

161. [00:27:19.02] Jen: Okay. So like a synthesis question.

162. [00:27:20.07] Louisa: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. That’s definitely what it is.

163. [00:27:24.07] Jen: Yeah. That’s really cool.

164. [00:27:27.01] Louisa: Only one more exam!

165. [00:27:28.06] Jen: Woohoo!

166. [00:27:28.27] Louisa: Yes.

167. [00:27:29.16] Jen: The final?

168. [00:27:30.03] Louisa: The final.

169. [00:27:31.12] Jen: Are they co-writing the final?

170. [00:27:33.06] Louisa: Yes, they co-write all of them.

171. [00:27:35.08] Jen: Okay, but Kent was sort of, like, more of the writer on the first one than –

172. [00:27:39.25] Louisa: Yeah. I think like maybe the other one just looked over it because, like, Higgins didn’t have any lectures for the first one, you know? So what would he have said? Like, I don’t want to test them on this, you know? Yeah. And I’m sure they’re co-writing it because this – and the third

section, the third section is, like, co-taught, it’s half and half, so then it’s like, is it going to be co-written, like, I don’t know. I don’t know how that one’s going to go, like, how much of who, like, how much is going to be on each? How much, how much of their kind of exam is going to be on it?

173. [00:28:20.18] Jen: Yeah. So like how much is going to be focused on more of the details versus how much is going to be focused on more of the –

174. [00:28:29.11] Louisa: Overlying themes, yeah.

175. [00:28:30.06] Jen: Overlying themes, okay. Yeah, that’s a hard balance to strike, I would think –

176. [00:28:34.26] Louisa: That'll be --

177. [00:28:35.10] Jen: For you guys.

178. [00:28:35.26] Louisa: Yeah, it’s going to be interesting. I’m just going to have to study both ways, I guess. Know all the details and then be able to, like, relate them to everything because it’s like 80% cumulative and then 20% on what we just learned, so yeah.

179. [00:28:50.00] Jen: How do you study for both of those options? Like – (both laugh)

180. [00:28:53.04] Louisa: Um, I’m studying, I’m studying, like, because my exam isn’t until the end of next week, so we’re done with, we’re done with our lectures on Monday, so I’m studying, like, I’m studying like I have an exam on Monday, and then, like, so I’m gonna study all the new stuff, like, really thorough, and then after I’m done understanding all the new stuff, I’m gonna mix all my notecards together and try to go from there. Try to see what I don’t remember, where – and what I do really remember, still. So –

181. [00:29:23.29] Jen: And again, paying attention to all the different levels (Louisa laughs) of the thing that you’re talking about?

182. [00:29:28.17] Louisa: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Hopefully it will work out.

183. [00:29:34.23] Jen: I would think so.

184. [00:29:36.17] Louisa: (laughs) At least it’ll be over.

185. [00:29:39.24] Jen: Exactly. At least it’ll be summer.

186. [00:29:41.21] Louisa: Yeah.

187. [00:29:43.04] Jen: Any plans for the summer?

188. [00:29:44.10] Louisa: Um, vacationing. I’m working at a hospital in the emergency department as a medical scribe, do you know what that is?

189. [00:29:51.01] Jen: Yeah.

190. [00:29:51.28] Louisa: So that’ll be fun. Just wear scrubs every day and follow doctors around, and learn, so –

191. [00:29:58.05] Jen: Get a hand on some of the lingo.

192. [00:29:59.24] Louisa: Yeah. I mean, it’s going to be fun because if you want to be in the hospital, you want to be in the emergency department because that’s where all, like, the crazy stuff happens, you know what I mean? So I’m excited about that.

193. [00:30:14.12] Jen: Yeah. I spent a summer in the NICU, um, neonatal intensive care unit. Something else. I mean, it was great, but I would say the nurses ran the show in there, which was awesome, but, yeah, I just remember this one time where I had to – where something was going on, and I had to get contact, in contact with someone real quick, and somehow that was like the volunteer’s job at that moment, and I was like, that should not be the volunteer’s job!

194. [00:30:46.07] Louisa: Right.

195. [00:30:47.00] Jen: Like, that was sort of a pressing thing, and it’s like, wow!

196. [00:30:49.19] Louisa: Yeah.

197. [00:30:50.13] Jen: But yeah, no, I think exciting things go on everywhere (Louisa laughs), but particularly in the emergency room with like the diversity of the stuff.

198. [00:30:58.15] Louisa: Yeah, getting a wide range of things because, like, I just feel, like, I’m shadowing a few neurologists also, and so, um, like, I just feel like that’s gonna be less like (gasps) what am I gonna do, like what kind of problem-solving kind of thing’s gonna happen because I shadowed a neurosurgeon, and like, most of the time before the patient had come in, like, we would already think about it, we would already know the problem, like, we would talk about it before they even came in, but that’s not gonna, like, the doctors can’t do that in the emergency room. They’re not gonna know what’s coming in to them, so I think that’ll be interesting. Like seeing how they’re problem solving.

199. [00:31:39.05] Jen: Yeah. On the fly.

200. [00:31:41.11] Louisa: Yeah. I mean, like, I live in Southern Maryland, so I doubt that stuff is going to be, like, super crazy in there all the time, but I’m sure there are going to be some times where it’ll be intense and lots of patients coming in. Yeah.

201. [00:31:55.29] Jen: Yeah. And you’re thinking more sort of neurology for yourself at this point?

202. [00:32:01.06] Louisa: Yeah, I think so. Hopefully. (laughs)

203. [00:32:05.22] Jen: No, I mean, it’s early. I think it’s cool to sort of keep options open and just think through what makes sense.

204. [00:32:12.04] Louisa: Yeah.

205. [00:32:12.24] Jen: Or what you want to do.

206. [00:32:13.26] Louisa: Yeah.

207. [00:32:14.12] Jen: But it sounds like you’ve got a good –

208. [00:32:16.17] Louisa: Hopefully.

209. [00:32:19.06] Jen: Um, any, like, final thoughts or final kind of –

210. [00:32:24.02] Louisa: How does the, like, I saw that it had Professor Redish’s name on there. How does, like, what you’re doing relate to, like, their research?

211. [00:32:32.07] Jen: Um, so, part of what this is, essentially, is trying to get, um – I’m trying to think. So I just started on this project this semester, so I don’t have as deep an understanding of it as some people, um, but I think it’s trying to get a sense of how can we, um, sort of help these different disciplines talk to each other a little bit more. Um, and that’s starting from people’s experiences of being in various classes and, like, how they are or are not connecting up, um, like, is there a place for physics in biology for example? And vice versa?

212. [00:33:14.12] Louisa: Right.

213. [00:33:14.28] Jen: Um, and just trying to start to piece together a sense of that or what that might look like. Um, so I think he, I mean, he’s on the project, a couple of other professors are in – it’s an interdisciplinary thing.

214. [00:33:27.09] Louisa: Right.

215. [00:33:27.23] Jen: Which is really cool.

216. [00:33:28.19] Louisa: Yeah.

217. [00:33:29.21] Jen: And exactly the kind of conversation that I think, you know, college professors should be having.

218. [00:33:36.21] Louisa: Yeah, yeah.

219. [00:33:37.07] Jen: Actually thinking about –

220. [00:33:38.13] Louisa: Usually they’re all like dissing each other, like oh, that’s how biologists think, or oh, that’s how physicists think. I’m surprised that they’re working together.

221. [00:33:47.03] Jen: Yeah. So, and I think there’s, there are like a couple sections of 207 that are really trying to, like, pull in math and physics to help make sense of some of the biological principles.

222. [00:34:01.26] Louisa: (looks puzzled) Okay.

223. [00:34:02.18] Jen: Yeah, I don’t have a great sense of how they’re doing that at this point.

224. [00:34:05.06] Louisa: Yeah. (laughs)

225. [00:34:06.18] Jen: Um, but, like I think, um, one example that they’ve talked about is like surface area to volume ratios.

226. [00:34:14.22] Louisa: Yeah, we talked about that. Yeah. I mean, but it wasn’t like, I mean, I would say that I’m not super strong in math, but I’m not, I’m definitely not weak in math. I don’t think that, I don’t think that him using the little numbers that he did for the surface area to volume ratio kind of, like, helped me understand it more, but maybe that’s also just because I understood what he was talking about beforehand. I don’t know, I don’t really have an unbiased opinion on that.

227. [00:34:40.17] Jen: Well, no, I mean, I don’t think anyone can. (Louisa laughs) But yeah, so the idea that you sort of like understood the principle without really needing the numbers?

228. [00:34:49.04] Louisa: Yeah. I don’t know, maybe it will help other people, but I think a lot of biologists are also kind of weak in math, so, so I don’t know. It’ll be interesting to see how it all works out.

229. [00:35:02.17] Jen: Yeah, I think it’s still at the very beginning and sort of at the exploratory phase and just trying to get people’s senses of what the different classes are about, and, you know –

230. [00:35:13.13] Louisa: That kind of thing.

231. [00:35:14.08] Jen: How they could fit together, if possible.

232. [00:35:16.18] Louisa: Gotcha. That makes sense. I don’t know, that would be interesting.

233. [00:35:22.12] Jen: It would be interesting. (laughs)

234. [00:35:23.23] Louisa: My chemistry class involves a lot of biology, or, like, biochem kind of thing because my professor’s, my professor really loves biochemistry, my chem professor does, so he loves bringing biology stuff into our class. He loves bringing or relating whatever we’re doing to the human body or organisms and stuff. I can see overlap there, but I don’t know how physics could be brought into bio. I don’t know.

235. [00:35:49.13] Jen: Yeah. One way that, um, someone yesterday was starting to talk about it I think, at least, was these different physical principles sort of underlying evolution in some way. Like, that evolution sort of has to happen under the constraints of the physical world, so understanding what some of those constraints are could help you understand why things have evolved the way they have, but we didn’t really get into too much detail about like, like I was asking if he had any examples, and not off the top of his head. But that was like one way that I think he was trying to start to piece some of that together, like –

236. [00:36:30.01] Louisa: Yeah, but I mean, that’s not the kind of physics that we learned in our classes. Like, we don’t learn, we don’t learn like how things affect us on the world. Like, we learn, like, magnets, like, how do, how are magnets something with evolution? That doesn’t make sense to me. But maybe that’s just because I haven’t, like, been exposed to the kind of physics that might lead to evolutionary traits. Maybe? I don’t know.

237. [00:37:00.02] Jen: No, I hear ya. But like talking about, like, magnetism, or talking about different things, it could be hard to see, like –

238. [00:37:06.21] Louisa: How those relate.

239. [00:37:07.14] Jen: How those link up.

240. [00:37:08.11] Louisa: Exactly. Definitely.

241. [00:37:09.21] Jen: Like, I think he was talking about pressure as one example, um, somehow.

242. [00:37:16.28] Louisa: Yeah, maybe. Pressure gradients and stuff. I don’t know, but it’d be interesting to see. Yeah.

243. [00:37:25.11] Jen: Yeah, so thank you for participating and sort of helping us in this venture of trying to make sense of what’s going on.

244. [00:37:33.26] Louisa: Yeah, definitely. Hopefully it works.

245. [00:37:38.13] Jen: Yeah. I hope so too.

246. [00:37:40.00] Louisa: It would be interesting.

247. [00:37:41.02] Jen: Can I give you 10 dollars?

248. [00:37:42.08] Louisa: Sure. (both laugh)

249. [00:37:43.13] Jen: Can I get you to fill out a receipt for me –

250. [00:37:45.26] Louisa: Sure.

251. [00:37:46.09] Jen: Just so I know where it has gone to? Um, but yeah, thank you very much –

252. [00:37:51.13] Louisa: Of course.

253. [00:37:52.24] Jen: I really do appreciate you taking the time during finals week in particular to (laughs) or coming up on finals week.

254. [00:37:59.23] Louisa: Yeah. Almost there.

255. [00:38:01.28] Jen: Yep. Absolutely.

256. [00:38:10.24] Louisa: Bi-sci 207, almost done!

257. [00:38:16.24] Jen: Oh you’re, exactly. Yay!

Analytic Summary

Themes in what Louisa offered: In evolution, characteristics build up (16), seems directional for her (18) –

approaches phylogenetic trees by thinking about characteristics of exemplars of phyla and comparing them (22)

Higgins’ 207 is similar to AP bio, sort of a refinement (22) – the relative importance of overlying themes versus details depends on the teacher, with her AP bio teacher focusing on details (32), Higgins focusing on themes (36 and Kent focusing on details (140)

In 207, study questions are helpful (54), previous exams somewhat helpful (144)

Dislikes Redish’s 122 – questions are not straightforward (92), not preparing them for MCATs (102), doesn’t want them to succeed (104), gets that “the real world is messy” but feels like she’s missing basics (130)

Surprised to hear that professors from different disciplines are talking to each other (220) – at first, doesn’t see chem or physics connecting to bio at all (96), and chem and physics connect to each other a bit in topics (98) – Higgins’ provision of numbers for surface area to volume ratios not helpful for biological understanding (226) – when we talk about the project in more detail, chem connects to bio, but doesn’t see how physics could (234), idea of physical principles undergirding evolution doesn’t make sense because they don’t learn that kind of physics (236)

There are several things I’m wondering at this point. First, what does Louisa mean by “understanding”? I tried to probe her a bit, but I don’t have a clear sense of what it means to understand something and how that differs from memorizing something or remembering something. I think understanding for Louisa is tied to relating information to other information, synthesizing, but I’m not sure. Second, is the shift from “chem doesn’t connect to bio” to “chem connects to bio” an interview artifact, as the “chem connects to bio” comes up when I’m talking about interconnections? What kind of evidence would support this interpretation? Third, physics never connects to bio, or at least they don’t learn the kind of physics that would connect. So what kind of physics do they learn? What is physics for Louisa – primarily that which is tested on the MCAT?

Future directions with Louisa, if desired: I feel like she would be fascinating to watch work through an

“interdisciplinary” problem – maybe one of the GAE’s? Seeing her in action and then debriefing might help to shed some light on how she approaches answering a concrete question, and how she sees the various disciplines…