integration traffic

Overcome Everything of 31

Module 1 – Mark Joyner and Tellman Knudson: Integration Marketing

Tellman: This call tonight is going to be with Mark Joyner, the king of integration marketing, the author and creator of Simpleology. Mark, are you with us?

Mark Joyner: I sure am. Thanks for having me. Tellman: Fantastic. Well, thanks for calling in from New Zealand. It's great

to have you here. Mark Joyner: Great to be here. Tellman: Well, everybody, you're here tonight to learn about traffic. And

there's one man that's taught me more about traffic than any other human being on the face of the earth, and his name is Mark Joyner, and with good reason. He has developed, innovated, and implemented some of the most effective and unique traffic methods available anywhere. They're very hard to come by. The kind of stuff that Mark teaches is extremely rare, and you will probably get more out of this call than the last 25 teleseminars you've attended.

I seriously can tell you that Mark's advice, his techniques and hints, have not only helped me make a tremendous, tremendous amount of money, but I've made a lot more money because of the simple things that Mark has taught me. And sharing some simple techniques with friends and colleagues have just produced landslides of increased sales and increased traffic to our sites.

Tonight's call is about a technique that Mark coined called

integration marketing. And you might notice that you don't hear Mark talking about marketing too much these days. He's focused on Simpleology at Simpleology.com. And if you're not using it to dramatically increase your ability to get stuff done, you are missing out. Mark, welcome to the call.

Mark Joyner: Thanks for having me. Tellman: So tell us a little bit about integration marketing. When did you

first discover integration, and what led you to it? Mark Joyner: Sure. Well, integration marketing is – it's an extremely powerful

concept. It's very, very easy to grasp, but like all really, really powerful things, sometimes it's deceptively so. If you just think



about it, you go, "Okay. I get this. I grasp it. That's fine. It's simple. I'm done." And you move on. You're really going to be missing out, because this concept is so powerful, it has transformed so many different businesses that I know. In fact, it's responsible for what I would say is the greatest business success story in history, and we'll get to that at some point.

Now the concept is this. It's simply the matter of integrating your

marketing process, or one marketing process, into another marketing process. Or to put it another way, to integrate one sales process into another sales process. Okay?

Now I'll tell the story that will give you an example of how this

works and how this came to mind. And over time, I started to understand that underneath that particular tactic that I uncovered, there was an over-principle, an uber-principle, that was far more powerful and far more important. It wasn't, you know, until a few years later that I actually coined it specifically integration marketing.

The story goes like this. Way back in the early days of the

internet, we're talking about, I don't know, maybe seven years ago now, which is, you know, really eons ago in internet time – it may even have been eight years ago now, now that I think of it. Goodness, it's – what is it? 2007 now we just hit. Right?

Tellman: That's correct. Mark Joyner: Wow. So that means – yeah. It could about maybe nine years ago.

Goodness. I'm getting old fast. So back then, we had a product that we started out called ROIbot.

ROIbot was the very first remotely hosted ad tracking solution on the internet. Most everyone listening is probably using a service like that. Our company was the first to do that on the internet, which was kind of a cool thing.

Now at the time, I realized that it was a very powerful new

concept. It sort of created a whole new industry. But like anything else, even if you have a great idea, yes, people will talk about it, and that's the foundation of viral marketing that we'll talk about in another call coming up here. But what's really important to understand here is that no matter how viral your idea is, you need



something, you need some impetus to start that out. You've got to get eyeballs on your offers, is what I like to say. Okay?

So one thing that we realized was – we were also the first company

to start selling electronic books on the internet as well. And by then, we were selling a number of different electronic books about marketing. And one of the old things that – who's now a very good friend of mine. Back then I didn't know him. But Joe Sugarman, one of the greatest direct marketers in the world, one of the things he taught me was the concept of the up-sell and the cross-sell.

It's a very simple concept. If you go to McDonald's, they say,

"Would you like fries with that?" if you order a burger. That's a cross-sell. If they say, "Would you like to super-size that" that's an up-sell, because you're going to the next larger version of the same thing.

This concept is also extremely simple, but very, very powerful.

And if you are to call BluBlockers up, BluBlockers is one of Joe Sugerman's companies that sells these interesting type of sunglasses. You cannot get off the phone with them without them selling you glasses for your Grandma, for your dog – okay. Obviously, they don't sell them to your dog, but you get the point. Right? You get off the phone, and you have purchased a lot of glasses.

Now I thought about this, and I said, "Well, hey. Wait a minute.

You know, we're not doing this on the internet at all." So I thought, "Wow. Okay. What if I take the offer of ROIbot and put it on the thank you page of the ebooks that we're selling?" Now you've got to remember, this was nine years ago. And back then, people didn't know what one time offers were. And by the way, that was probably the first ever one time offer on the internet. People weren't talking about these ideas at all. This was all brand new and totally different, and no one had thought of this before.

But even still, one time offers are great, but there's a larger

principle here, and I hope everyone will get this here when we get into the historical study of the greatest business success story in history. You'll see how much broader this actually is.

So that was the first one time offer, and we did that. On the back

end of our ebooks, we said, "Thank you for purchasing." And then



we said, "Now for a dollar," or for free – we varied different offers. We said, "You can get a month of ROIbot." Okay? "And you can

cancel it at the end of the first month. If you like using it, we'll just continue charging you $17 a month for the product." Okay? In retrospect, I'd probably charge a little more than $17, but this was back then, and we were just learning stuff.

Now here's the thing. Okay? We tweaked and tested that offer to

a point where we were getting a little over 50% of the people who purchased our ebooks to go for that offer. That was absolutely amazing. And it took a lot of time to get to that point, but that was what the end result was. Now that pulled money out of thin air.

But here's the thing that really, really struck me. Now that particular example is a lower level of integration marketing. That is integrating a sales process into another sales process that you own. Okay? Now here's the thing that kept me up all night that night. I was lying in bed, and I said, "Hey, wait a minute. What if I put that offer on the thank you page of ebooks sold by other people?" By this time, the ebook thing just started catching on. There were a lot of people out there in that same space, teaching people how to market products on the internet. And when the power of that struck me, I literally could not sleep that whole night. I went in that next day, and it took me a little time to convince my guys and my little tiny two-man marketing department that I had at the time that this was a valid idea. Finally, at the end of the day, I had to get on the phone myself and make some phone calls to guys and explain to these other companies the value of it. And we got a few people to bite. And that was it. From that point forward, that was the most important catalyst that really propelled our business forward to new directions that we had simply never seen before.

Tellman: I mean, this is such a massive thing. And I know a lot of people

are thinking, "Oh, well, you know, that's great. It was done back then with marketing stuff." And you know, I'm seeing these one time offers and these things on thank you pages all over the internet marketing world, but you know, Mark, if you start digging in just a little bit, even though this – you know, you started breaking ground with this several years ago. This isn't even being



touched in the vast majority of industries across the board. The concept –

Mark Joyner: Well, that's the thing, Tellman. I mean, you know, in the "internet marketing world" where people are selling people on how to do internet marketing, you know, and frankly, there are far too many people selling that, and most of them don’t really know what they're teaching, I'm sorry to say. And I don't mean that to pooh-pooh anyone. I just – I mean, you know, guys, be careful when you go out and learn this information. Tellman, by the way, is one of the guys who knows what he's talking about. I just want to make sure that's extremely clear.

But the thing is, okay, the guys in the internet marketing world

who are selling information about internet marketing, they may have some techniques that are on the edge of things that haven't touched yet. You're right. Nine years ago, this was big. You can't go to really mainstream websites and see this as a common phenomenon, unfortunately. To me, you're absolutely crazy if you don't take advantage of that, because you're not taking advantage of extremely well-targeted eyeballs.

And this, by the way, is why integration marketing is so powerful. You've got extremely well-targeted eyeballs that are already there, and you don't have to pay anything else for it. Now if you do the higher level integration marketing, where you're integrating your sales process into someone else's sales process, yeah, you've got to give them a cut of that. But compare that to the cost of acquiring that new customer out of thin air. It is greatly decreased. Okay? So this, to me, it's absolutely insane if people don't do it.

Tellman: Now before the call, before we got started, there were a couple of

people saying what they were hoping to get out of the call tonight. And one guy said, "You know what? I'm looking for a type of traffic to my site that is less expensive than pay-per-click."

Mark Joyner: Well, here you go. I mean, this is probably as low cost as you can

get, and here's why. Again, pay-per-click, you've got to convert that. Okay? And the targeting is highly dependent upon how you shape the frame of mind of that clicker. Okay?



Now you could have what you think is a very well-targeted key word, but if your ad doesn’t put someone in the right frame of mind or doesn't call out to the person who is in the right frame of mind to buy something, you're not going to get results. And anyone who's experienced pay-per-click knows, look, yes, you can pay for the traffic. You'll get those clicks. And aside from the entire click fraud issue, you've got the onus of having to convert that person from when they're there, and it's actually a very complex thing.

And the thing that a lot of people don’t understand is you've got

one particular web page, say. And then you've got all of these different ads out there. Well, every single one of those different ads is putting that person in a different frame of mind when they get to your landing page. So as you see, it's a very, very complex thing. Okay?

Now when you've got someone who has already made a purchase

and has already made a purchase for a product that is in the same niche or in the same space, however you want to say it, or is even something that is likely to be wanted by someone who would also want your product – so this broadens your mind, now. Don't just think it has to be the exact same type of thing. It can be related. It can just be, you know, something that, yeah, hey, a guy who wants would also want this. Okay?

You have got so much better traffic in that particular case. It's

going to be less traffic, but it's going to be more highly targeted and in more frame of mind built and better timed traffic.

Tellman: All right. I mean, it – when you're talking about better timed

traffic, this is such an important thing. I mean, when you're going out and you're setting up your trap to get people in front of your offer, to get eyeballs in front of your offer, as you were saying earlier, Mark, one of the biggest things that I've found is, you know, you're going to be spending time doing something anyway.

One of the things that I've found that people do is they go out and they look for affiliates. They look for people that will promote their product or service one time to their list. They do a promotion. And if they get a big guy or a big website that has some serious promotional power behind them, they send out an email, and all of a sudden, $10,000. Bam. It's in your bank account. You're all excited. You give half of that away back to



your affiliate, and that's still a pretty good day. Five grand. You know, somebody sent out one email. Great.

But what happens the next day? Right? Nothing. Nothing. Mark Joyner: That's right. Tellman: One of the things that has made a huge different for me using this

principle that I learned from Mark is that we went out and we looked for places that we could present an offer – again, a higher level integration marketing on other people's sites. And that traffic comes in day in and day out, whether we do anything else or not. We don't have to monitor it because once it's set up, it costs you nothing. It only costs you a little bit of time to set it up in the first place, and then you can just let it roll. Right?

Mark Joyner: That's right. Tellman: So this is something I learned a lot from Simpleology 102. Right? Mark Joyner: Thanks for that. Well, in Simpleology, this is, you know, one

particular part of Simpleology 102. I mean, 102 breaks down what is important about your business into bite-sized chunks so that you can focus specifically on what's going to bring exact results for your business.

Now there's something I want to point out here, and that's this. If

you simply put an ad on someone else's website, that is a form of integration marketing, in a sense. Okay? But it's not the highest form. Okay? The highest form of integration marketing is talking about integrating your sales process into someone else's sales process at that right moment in time.

So you want to put an ad on someone's website, and that's one

thing. You might get some clicks. However, you can also put an offer on someone's thank you page, seen by someone we know has already made a purchase. And the value of that is 100 times greater, and I really want people to understand that difference. We're not talking about simple ads here. And this is a great general principle.

And I think maybe it's time that I talk about this story. We've been

building up this greatest business success story in history. Shall we talk about that?



Tellman: That would be awesome. Mark Joyner: Okay. So here's the thing. Okay? I'm going to tell a little story,

and maybe you guys can guess who this is. I'm going to be

deliberately vague about this so that we can build up a little bit of suspense.

Now there was a young man, years ago, who wanted to start a

software company. And he was doing fairly well. He was making some shrewd moves, and he went out and he purchased – or he made a potential deal with someone to purchase his software package. He hadn't even made this deal yet. He just had the potential deal.

Now he went and he talked to a company that was selling

computers. Okay? These guys had a big pipeline of computers that they were selling to people, and this man was smart enough to figure out that if he could tap into that, all right, some amazing things would happen for him.

So he went and he told them, he said, "Look. I want you guys to

include this software on every one of the computers you manufacturer. But here's the deal. I get to sell the upgrades of the software. I get the rights of the software. You don't." Okay?

Now the computer manufacturer said, "Well, this guy's stupid.

Yeah. Go ahead. Have it." Because everyone knows that the money in the computer industry is in hardware. Now by the way, that's what they thought back then. Okay?

Now this very, very simple tale might take on a different character

when I tell you that that big company that was selling the computers was called IBM. And the man who talked to them, his name was Bill Gates, and he formed a company called Microsoft. And I don't know of anyone who understands the history of Microsoft who will not tell you that that moment in history, that moment in time, was the exact thing that catalyzed Microsoft going from this tiny unknown company, Bill Gates being a man who Steve Jobs looked at and shrugged off and ignored, okay, to being the richest man in the world, and the greatest success story in history. Okay?

And what is that? That is exactly integration marketing. Okay? In

fact, it's integration marketing on the supreme level. He was



selling licensing of the software, and people had to pay for it every time they purchased the computers. And what happened from that point forward? He kept those software customers. Okay? Every sale from that point forward for upgrades to that software, and

anyone knows, you know, from way back then, we've gone a long way from DOS, Microsoft DOS 1.0, to Windows Vista, which is going to be out here fairly soon.

Everyone who has owned a computer from that point forward has

not just purchased new hardware, but they've also had to pay a little bit of money to Microsoft every time as well, and that little bit of money to all of those customers that he initially didn't have to do a damn thing to acquire, okay, again, turned into the greatest fortune ever amassed by any man in the history of the world.

Tellman: I mean, that's a pretty solid story, and evidence of how incredible

integration marketing can be. I mean, so, you know, how would the – how would the mortal man – how would the guy or the woman who's just starting out, she has her product and her service, and she wants to get it out there. What can you recommend to someone as far as some specific action steps that someone could take in order to go out there and apply this simple principle that you've been teaching?

Mark Joyner: Well, there are a great number of things that you can do. If you're

in direct mail, for example, you can find a company that's selling a product similar to yours, and you can integrate your sales process into theirs in a number of different ways. Now again, the ultimate way to do this is to have it so that your product is sold automatically, without you even having to flex any marketing muscles at all, in the way Bill Gates did, and then own the customer on top of that. That was a pretty amazing feat.

Another way, and not equally as good, but we're getting there, is to

integrate your sales process into the moment of the point of sale. Okay? Now let me give you an example. If you go to a store and you buy some jeans, okay, now a smart manufacturer of just say maybe some accessories might go up to the jean store and say, "Hey, look. I've got my accessories here. You know, I don’t want you to buy these from me. What I want to do is I want to leave these with you on consignment. Okay? And here's what I want you to do. Every time someone purchases a pair of these jeans, I've got this little thing that dangles from the hip pockets of jeans, and chicks are wearing them everywhere, and they're getting



popular. I've got pictures of people in clubs in LA wearing it. Here you go. Just put this little, you know, picture up there of it. Have them right there at the counter, and just tell your sales reps to do this. When they buy a pair of jeans, say, 'Would you also like

to buy one of these?' Okay? And for every one that you sell, just give me this much money. Okay?"

Are you getting the flavor of this? Now in direct marketing, here's

a lesser way of doing it, but still interesting. It's not at the point of sale, but if somebody sells out a product or ships out a product to a customer, you can have advertising for your product ride along with that. You just tell the guy, "Hey, look. Mail this out to your customers when you ship out your product." Okay?

"So when the customer gets the product, they're going to get everything that you promised them, and then they're going to get an ad from me. And you know what? It's not going to cost you a dime. I've even going to pay for the printing of this. It's not going to cost you any more to ship this out. You've got this big box of stuff. It's not going to cost you a few – you know, thin pennies even to insert this in there. And when the customer makes a purchase as a result of that, I'm going to give you a cut. Here's what I'm going to give you." Okay?

The list goes on and on and on. And the only thing that is limiting

you is your imagination and your energy and your belief in yourself. Okay?

And if you don't have any belief in yourself, if you think, "Well, that's good for the big guys. Someone else could do that, and I couldn't do it." Well, guess what? It's already lost. You may as well quit and get out of business. Okay? You've got to start believing in yourself right now. Take those big steps. Don't think that this is only what the big guys do. Think big for yourself, and believe in what you're doing. And if you don't believe in your product, guess what? Get another product. It's okay.

Now Tellman, you and I just had a very, very lengthy conversation

about this very same thing, which we won't get into in great detail. But let me ask you this. Is that an important concept for people to understand? I know this doesn't have anything to do with integration marketing, but how important would you say that is?



Tellman: Oh, it's absolutely important. Whether you're a one-man band, or whether you have a whole staff of people behind you. I mean, I just went and met with Mark, and we brought three of our core staff members along with us. And what we did was we sat down and we completely reinvented our company from bottom up, based

on how we could create new products and new services that would be so – that we would believe in so much, and that goes down so far to the core of our being and who we are as individual human beings, that the focus, the determination, the energy that came out of that meeting and out of that sit-down was absolutely phenomenal, and is carrying through to every single action that everyone in my entire company is taking to this day.

So again, whether it's you or whether it's you, as in your greater

company you, it is so important that you believe in what you're doing. Now otherwise, you – otherwise, when you hear someone say no, you'll feel it. If you believe in what you're doing, and you really, truly believe in the products and services that you're creating and selling or marketing, if you're marketing someone else's products and services, then there's nothing that can stop you.

But if there's – if you don't believe in it, you're done. You're toast.

I mean, you'll wake up and you'll feel like crap in the morning. Mark Joyner: That's absolutely right. And this, in a sense, is what Simpleology

is about at the foundation. You know, you've got to find things you believe in, things that charge you. Now listen. I'm not one of these guys that's going to tell you, you know, "You've got to find your passion. If you don't find your passion, all is lost, blah blah blah." I'm just saying it's an important thing that you have to have at a fundamental level. But that doesn't mean, though, that there aren't specific things that you can do.

And that's really, in the essence, what Simpleology focuses on, is what simple things you can do to bring about results. Not things that you think are going to bring about results or things that hypothetically may theoretically feel good for you or whatever. I'm talking about real things that you know are going to bring you closer to those things that you want. So to answer this, and I think this is a really important conversation. We talk about people who are just starting out or who are like, "Hey, I'm a little guy, and I don't know what to do,"



and all that. "How am I supposed to incorporate all this in my business?" Okay. You've got to start thinking realistically and radically differently about how you live your life. Okay? And you've got to start looking at the things that you know are going to bring about results. And a lot of us go through our lives with this fuzzy sense of, "Well, I kind of believe in this. I kind of think this might bring about results. Someone told me if I think really positively and feel good about myself, it's going to make me a millionaire. Blah blah blah." And you go through weeks and months, and you realize that that's not bringing about results. The things that are going to bring you about results are taking action. And around this, back up into integration marketing, what can you do right now? Who can you call? Do you know someone else who is selling a similar product to yours? Call them up and say, "Look. I just got off this call with Tellman and Mark, and they talked to me about this idea of integration marketing. Here is something where you and I can help each other. Okay? I can put money in your pocket. This is profit out of thin air. And I can help build my business. Let's do this." Okay? Just present the offer to them. Now what I did was I got on the call – and by the way, the marketing guys I was working with at the time, they called a few people up, and they said, "Mark, this isn't going to work." Okay? And I said, "All right, guys. We're going to go take a little walk." And I had what we used to call in the army a come to Jesus talk with them. All right? And the come to Jesus talk was, "You know what? It's all going to come down to this. Okay? You're either going to get off your ass and do the things that work, pardon my language, or you're going to have to go. Okay?" And finally, you know, they put it back to me, and they said, "Well, okay. If you believe this can be done, you do it." And I said, "Okay, guys. I'm going to make one phone call." And I said, "If I can close this deal in one phone call, you guys have to promise me you're never going to complain about this kind of thing again. And if I ever see you not believing in yourself, you're gone." Okay?



And it was just like that. It was just that intense and just that severe. Well, guess what? That was a lot of pressure. Okay? So – but what I did was, I got on the call, and I picked a guy who I knew would be smart enough to see that this was a valuable thing. And I got out my little calculator, and I said, "Hey, look, man. This is what we're doing. Okay? We're putting this offer on the back end of our ebooks, and you know, we're getting about 50% right now. Guess what? Let's just imagine that you get only 20% sales." I said, "Now, you're not selling anything on this space right now at all. How many sales a day do you get?" You know, and the guy told me the number. I said, "Okay. Let's imagine that we close 20% of those guys. This is what your commission is for ROIbot. You get that every month." Now you heard me clicking in the background, going, "Cha cha cha cha." And I said, "This is what you're going to have monthly at the end of the year. And this is a very conservative estimate, wouldn't you agree? Because since we're getting 50%, do you think you could get 20%?" Yeah. The guy was like, "And that's every month?" And I said, "Absolutely it is." He said, "How do we start this?" I said, "Okay. Here's what we do." Pow. And I gave him a little piece of code that he had to pop on his website, and that was it. It was done. And that took about ten minutes of my time. Now why did that happen? Because I believed in myself. I believed in the result. I really felt that this was a good thing for him and was a good thing for me. And by the way, this is an important thing. It's going to sound like moral posturing, but it's not. Okay? If you're going to go out and you're going to present people with offers that are not truly valuable for them but hone your skills in tricking them into thinking that it is valuable for them, well, over time, that's going to come and bite you, not because of karma or some moral reason or something like that, but simply because your brain is going to start eating away at you. Okay? There is something that happens in your brain when you're deceptive to people and when you're not honest, and when you don't really believe in yourself. It creates a lot of junk floating around in your brain. You've got to start keeping track of all of your life. Okay? You’ve got to start looking over your shoulder.



And that's a very, very uncomfortable way to live, and it takes up energy – and by the way, we talk about this in Simpleology 103, which is coming out here very soon. It takes up the energy that you would have to otherwise focus on other areas of your life. Okay? I know that's sort of a tangent, but it's extremely important to this idea. But the point here is this, guys. That is a very specific action I took to getting this done. I didn't sit and I didn't think positively about it. I didn't try to manifest it into my life, and you know, wait for my Grandpa to come up on my back doorstep with a bicycle out of thin air. I went out. I picked up the phone. I made the phone call. I told my guys that they needed to do the same thing, as well. I told them specifically what to do. Okay? And if you don't have that level of specificity, if you don’t know what kind of results you're going to be getting from your actions every day, well, guess what? It's very unlikely that you're going to hit it. Okay? It's like buying a lottery ticket. All right? There's a million in one chance, or maybe even worse, that you're going to get the money that comes out, that you're actually going to win the lottery. Okay? But you've got a really good chance of making things happen for yourself if you take specific actions that are going to bring about those specific results.

Tellman: Now here's another point in this, is we all start out, all right.

Whether you're already making a ton of money online, or whether you're just getting things rolling. I started out with $50. Right? And it was really hard. I started out with $50, and I was trying to convince six other guys to each work with me until we made it big. Okay? And I would give them each 10% of the profits of whatever we earned. And I'd give myself 10% of the profits of whatever we earned. And I would turn around and take the 30% extra that was left over, and we'd invest that in getting better, you know – better services, better server, better, you know, audio programs and so on. Better education.

And I wasn't very specific. I didn't know anything about how to

manage my own time and how to manage my own actions at all. And it was like beating a dead horse, trying to get these guys to move and do something. You know, I mean, they're all wonderful people, and I think every single guy that I got involved with to get



things up and running in the first place all had the best intentions on the face of the earth. But unless you've got your mind clear on what you're doing, you really don't – it doesn't work. It does not work.

And at the end of the day, what ended up happening was I picked

up all the slack, and I got the motivation, and I got myself up, and I

made it happen. But here was the thing. Here was the thing. There was a lot of wasted effort. And now, today, we have 13 employees. We have eight apprentices. And every single person in our entire company is actively using the principles Mark is talking about here every single day in order to make more money for themselves and be more effective for our company. All right?

We're using the exact outline that Mark created and is – and

developed for Simpleology in order to get more done more quickly. As a result, every single person in my company is making more money today than they've ever made in their entire life. Before applying the principles that Mark's discussing here, that was not the case. Coincidence? I don't know. Right? I mean, you can judge it for yourself.

But what I can say is that these principles and concepts have

helped me. They've helped Johnny, who is my brother-in-law. They've helped Kyle Battis, who is an old friend from high school. They helped Teal Pulsifer, who's a friend from college. They've helped my sister, Sara Knudson. They've helped Jody Meehan, my partner, and countless more. Lindsey Meehan, Johnny's wife, to make more money and be more successful in everything that they're doing on a daily basis.

Now the cool thing about Simpleology, Mark, is that the

methodology that you present within first, Simpleology 101, then Simpleology 102, is, in my opinion, anyway, created for someone who's trying to build an online business. Because it's so easy to get distracted and overwhelmed by the newest whiz-bang, you know, thing or product or home study course or coaching program that's out there, whether or not it's actually going to help you grow and accomplish what you're trying to accomplish. Or you know, to bring it back down to basics, just get more traffic to your website.

Mark Joyner: Well, it certainly helps someone who's trying to do that. That – it's

– the application is more universal than that, but coming from a background of someone who's been involved in a great many



dotcom startups, both amazingly successful and radically failing, I know what people go through with that. And I may be slightly biased towards that. You're absolutely right. You know, because of that background.

But the point is, what we tried to do with that is we tried to get

people focused on exactly what things were important, first in their

life, and then in the things that they do to make money from that point forward. Rather than doing the things that aren't bringing about results, to focus on the specific things that are. That is – do you have any other specific questions from your listeners about integration marketing? Things that they want to do? Things that they want to learn from this call?

Tellman: Well, you know, I know we only have you for a total of 60 minutes

here this evening, and we have about 20 minutes left in the call, and we have a very special system. So if you'd be willing, Mark, I can open it up for one question at a time, where we can get some live questions from people about integration marketing to get more traffic.

Mark Joyner: That would be absolutely great, and I just want to say that I do

have to cut this off in about 20 minutes because I've got to jump into a car and take a little trip here. And I wish I could spend more time with you guys today, but unfortunately, that's not possible. So let's just dive right into that, and I'm happy to answer any question that your folks have got.

Tellman: Great. Okay, guys. This is going to be first come, first serve, so if

______ act like in the next 20 seconds, here's what you do. All you need to do is press one, one on your phone. Just press the number one twice. And what will happen is I will see your hand raise, and based on when you raised your hand, I'll go ahead and patch you through, and you can ask Mark a question. I'll call out your area code. I'll call out your area code right before I patch you through, and we'll get you going.

Now there's a little bit of a delay here for me, and the reason there's

a delay is because I just moved into a new house, and it's gigantic, and it's brick, and I'm on this wireless broadband card, and I have a slower than dialup connection. So right now, in order to ask a question, what you want to do is press one, one on your phone. Your hand will raise, and you can ask Mark any question about integration marketing in order to get more traffic to your site than



you can possibly think of. This is – I mean, you can't get the opportunity to ask Mark these types of live questions. It's incredibly rare. So this is a gem that's sitting in your hand, waiting for you to do something with.

So again, one, one on the phone. And it's going to refresh here.

Any second, I'll be able to patch some people through. You know, one of the things that I find – oh, wow. We have a lot

of questions. Okay. You know, I'm just going to go ahead and jump into this. 941 area code, I'm going to patch you through first. 941 area code, you're coming through here.

Audience: Hi, Tellman. Hi, Mark. This is Pat Marcello from Bradenton,

Florida. Mark Joyner: Hi. Audience: Hi. My question is, you know, how do you pick your partners?

Do you look for somebody that's extremely successful now, or somebody that's just as successful as you are? Or what would be the criteria?

Mark Joyner: That's an amazingly good question. And my general advice is that

– I'm sorry to say, but partnerships are the least likely form of business organization to succeed. Okay? And yes, there's some great exceptions about there. _____ _____ would probably disagree vehemently with my assessment of partnerships.

However, my personal experience, and it looks like from some of

Tellman's experience here as well, when you have business partnerships, they don't always work out the way you want. And here is one of the primary reasons why: egos get in the way. Somebody wants to be in charge. Someone may want to do one thing. You may want to do something else. They may take it personally, and when that happens, the business stops moving forward.

Or because you're managing the business through committee,

you've got to sit there and you've got to discuss every decision over and over again. Okay?

Now if you're talking about a formal business partnership where

you've got two people who own a business equally, that answer I just gave you will apply to that. Okay? You know, another form



of business that's more effective would probably be a corporation, where you've got, you know, someone clearly in charge, a CEO. Or even a sole proprietorship, where you've got someone clearly in charge, because all of that is tantamount to getting results. Okay? If you're – you know, you've got too many people trying to decide too many different things, it's taking you off that straight line path that we talk about in Simpleology.

Now if you're talking about partners for like JV partners and things

like that, it doesn't really matter. Okay? The JV partner you want to pick is the person who has got the appropriately targeted eyeballs and who is willing to play with you fairly. And by the way, guys, you need to be up front about what you're doing in terms of the quid pro quo. That's Latin simply for this for that. Okay?

And now if you ever get involved in any business deal, whether it

be with a partner or a sale of anything, if you're not clear on what you're getting and clear on what you're giving, and if there's confusion or implied things that, you get any sense in your gut that it's just not right, listen to that, and cut tail and run. Okay? It's really important that any kind of business relationship that you have is very, very clear. What's expected of you is clear, and what you're getting from the other person in return is clear, as well.

I hope that answers your question. Audience: In terms of integration marketing, yeah, it would apply. Thank you

very much. Mark Joyner: You bet. Tellman: Awesome. Thanks, Pat. Okay. 306 area code, you're up next.

306. Mark Joyner: Hello. Are you with us? Tellman: 306? Audience: I'm here. Can you hear me? Tellman: All right. We can hear you. Audience: Oh, okay. Great. My mute button must have been on. I'm just

wondering about ebooks, and selling ebooks through the site. I'm



getting ready for the up-sell and the one time offer after they buy the first book. Is it better to offer them maybe a second book at half price, or a bundle of books at a cheaper rate with a higher price? I'm not sure what's the best way to go with that. I know you both have sold a lot of ebooks in your past, so what do you think about that idea?

Mark Joyner: I would say that there is no best way. And if anyone ever gives you any answer that is, "This is all –" it's always better to do lower price or always better to do higher price, or anything like that, I will tell you right now that they're not thinking it through all the way. Okay?

And here's why. Because every single situation, every marketing

process, is different. It depends on the frame of mind in which someone is when they're going through your process. So what I would tell you is you've got to get into the mindset of constantly wanting to test. Don't be afraid of testing. Okay? Testing is not really difficult. You've just got to put something different up there. And by the way, it's got to be split in real time. It's got to be a real time split test.

Now we could have a whole – several different calls about testing

and the reasons why things have got to be split in real time. But just remember that for right now. It can't be like I do version A on Tuesday and version B on Wednesday. That's not a valid – it's a statistically invalid process. It's got to be rotated at the same time.

So what I would say is two – try two radically different things.

Try a lower cost one. Try a bundle of things. And once you've got a statistically significant amount of data gathered to make a determination that one is better than the other – and by the way, most of the split tests I see people doing, even a lot of the experts, simply are not statistically valid split tests. So learn about that, okay? Learn about statistical significance. Learn about the proper way of finding out whether you have a good answer or not. And then see which one works. Now that's your answer.

Audience: Thank you, Mark. Is there a good resource you could recommend

for, you know, setting up the split test, possibly? Mark Joyner: There's a really good software program you can get called

AdTrackz, with a Z. A-D-T-R-A-C-K-Z. Now there are plenty of others out there, but that particular one I've noticed is pretty good.



And give that a shot. And it should be flexible enough for you to use it at any point in your sales process.

Audience: Thank you very much. And by the way, congratulations on your

103 book.

Mark Joyner: Thank you very much for that. Just so you know, it's not just a book. It's a complete course. You guys get videos and audios, and we walk you through a whole lot of interesting stuff and let you experience some stuff, too. But thank you for that. I really appreciate that.

Audience: You're welcome. Thanks for the info. Mark Joyner: You're welcome. Tellman: Tremendous. Thank you. Okay. Next person up to bat, 703 area

code. 703 area code, we're going to put you through next. Audience: Hi, Mark. This is Barry in Virginia. I'm one of Tony's

apprentices. Mark Joyner: Hi, there, Barry. Audience: Hi, there. Nice to speak to you, one on one. Mark Joyner: Likewise. Audience: My intention – thank you. My intention is to master integration

marketing, both on Tellman's behalf and on my own. What is the single best piece of advice you can give me to achieve my goal of attracting enough integration marketing partners to generate $1 million in residual revenue during 2007?

Mark Joyner: Okay. Let me just put out, just here in the beginning, I don't

believe you attract these things to you. Okay? I believe you go out and you get them. Okay? Now we may have some philosophical differences there. And in fact, I’m in very sharp disagreement with some of the best friends in my life on this particular topic.

So I can only speak in terms of going out and getting things. I

can't speak in terms of attracting. If you're someone who believes



in the law of attraction, they would tell you to focus on that and think about it every day and all of that. And that may be helpful.

But I would say to you, and I think that most of them, when talked to, would agree, that the attraction thing, if it happens at all, and by the way, I don't believe that quantum physics supports the law of attraction thing. If you're to believe in that, though, the guys who are actually practicing it are guys who also go out there and take very specific actions to get the things that they want.

And so what I would say to you is, if your intention, all right, is to

go out and master integration marketing, after listening to this call, which really lays out the foundation of that for you on the line, what you need to do is go out and actually do it. Get involved in real integration marketing processes. Okay? Find people who are going to do these types of deals with you. Actually do them. See what happens. Observe the results. Be like a scientist. Say, "I tried this. This was the result. Now I'm going to formulate a different hypothesis." And then keep testing these hypotheses. Keep getting out there and really be in the laboratory there, really doing it.

And that is what's going to get you mastery of it, more than

anything else, is the actual action of being involved in doing it. Audience: Okay. And what is – Mark Joyner: I hope that answers your questions. I hope I didn't offend you with

my law of attraction thing. Audience: No. You didn't offend me at all. You know, I – absolutely, you

have to take action, no matter what your intention is. Mark Joyner: Good. Audience: What about your best recommendation as the first action or the

primary action? Or what would be the first step? Mark Joyner: Okay. The first step that you do, and you're asking excellent

questions. ____ the right questions. Right? The first step is you have got to have a method of doing the integration. Okay? So whatever your product is, get a notion in your mind. I want to, you know, put an offer, an up-sell, on someone's sales page. On their



thank you page. Or I want to – are you a retail company, or are you an internet company?

Audience: I'm an internet company. Mark Joyner: Internet company. Okay. I imagine most of the people sitting on

the call would be. Okay? The easiest way to do it, all right, is to come up with a thank you page offer that simply says, "Hey, thank

you for purchasing that product. You'll receive information about that in the email shortly. Meanwhile, here's an offer for you." And there are a number of different ways that this can be done. Okay?

Now so write that page. Okay? And don't worry about getting it

perfect. Just do it. All right? Write that page, and then go out and contact a few people that are selling products who don't yet have offers on their thank you pages. Or – hey, you don't have to buy everyone's product to find that out. Just call them up. Right? It takes you, you know, 30 seconds to get on the phone, call them, send than email or whatever. Say, "Hey, you know, I – you know, I would – I want to know what you're doing here. Here's an idea I have. What do you think?" All right? Just give it a shot. Okay?

Audience: Okay. Mark Joyner: And then just keep trying that. Okay? And if you're not getting

results, modify your approach. All right? Now one of the best ways to do this is, you know, you need to get

what we call rapport with the person with whom you're doing to do this. All right? Now sometimes people send out these very elaborate JV offers that are sort of pitchy and solicitous in the beginning, and people don't respond to them. Okay? Befriend someone first. Go out and – how do you make friends with someone? Well, do something for them, but make it a genuine thing, you know. And then once you've got a relationship with them, it's possible that you may be able to work something like that in.

Now here's a really important caveat I have to add to that, is a lot

of people make these business friends, and then if they find out after making friends with them that the person's not going to give them what they want, they're no longer friends anymore. I don't think that's a good policy. So you never know when people are going to come in handy for you. So be real friends with them. Do



genuine things for them. And then through those relationships, you're going to develop opportunities to do such things.

Now the other approach is you can just be very, very up front with

everyone and say, "Hey." Call them up say, "This is what I want to do." It can be all business. You say, "Here's the business deal I've got for you." And that's the way 99% of the business world

operates, by the way, is a lot of these, you know, direct approaches. All right?

So give that a shot and see what happens. So there are your action

steps. Create that one time offer sales page, and then find people that you want to integrate that one time offer sales page with. Call them up, and just – you call them up, email them, whatever. And see if they'll do it.

Audience: Okay. Very good. Thank you. Mark Joyner: You're welcome. Tellman: Awesome. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Barry. Okay. Next

person up, we're going to go ahead and put through 317 area code. 317, you're coming on next.

Audience: Hi. Mark? Mark Joyner: Yes, ma'am. Audience: Hi. This is Amanda. And my question on integration marketing is

like when you're selling other people's products, you can call other people and put an – put that offer of another affiliate onto their thank you page?

Mark Joyner: Mm-hmm. Audience: You can do that? Mark Joyner: You mean put the offer of another affiliate – you mean if you're an

affiliate for another company, and you put your affiliate link on someone's thank you page? Is that what you're saying?

Audience: Yeah. Can you do that, or –



Mark Joyner: Well, you could do that, but the person that owns the thank you page wouldn't be benefiting there unless you made some deal with them. Right? So you could structure it so that they're on your second tier of the affiliate program, or maybe you say you're going to give them a cut.

But you know, they might get wise to that and say, "Well, wait a minute. Why don't I just do this myself as an affiliate?" even though you're the one who brought the offer to them, and you're the one that did the legwork to make it happens. Sometimes these things happen in business. You know, even though you do work, you know, if you set yourself so that somebody can very easily cut you out, more often than not, they're going to, I'm sorry to say.

But I like the way you're thinking. You're being creative. You're

thinking of different ways. And in the future, the next time you say, "Can I do this?" my answer is almost always going to be yes. Okay? Give it a shot. Find out. See what happens. All right? As long as it's something that you feel comfortable doing and you think is actually helping both parties, then it's definitely a yes.

Audience: Okay. So you need to have your own product when you go to

different people to make a deal? Mark Joyner: You don't need to do anything but those things that are going to get

you the things that you want. Okay? So I don't want you to limit yourself and say, "Oh, I've got to have my own product for this." Okay? You're obviously a very creative person. That question demonstrates that fact to me. Okay? So you can do this any way that you want. Think of different ways to do it, and then here's what you do can do. You can put on the head of Mark Joyner, and say, "Okay. What would Mark do? I’m going to be Mark for a minute here, and how would Mark answer me?"

And I'll tell you right now, what Mark is going to tell you in most

cases is, is it helping out both parties? Is it a really good quid pro quo for both? If yes, give it a shot. Test it out. See what happens.

And you know what? So you know what happens in our lives is a

lot of times we sit there and we go, "How well is this going to work? I don't know." And all that time we spend thinking about whether or not it's going to work is time that we could have spent actually doing it and finding out. Okay?



So give it a shot and see what happens. Audience: Okay. Thanks. Mark Joyner: You're very welcome. Tellman: Thank you, Amanda. Okay. 856 area code. 856, you're up next.

Audience: Hi. How are you guys doing? Most of my questions have been asked. This is Gene Markman in Vienna.

Mark Joyner: Hey, Gene. Audience: How are you? I love Simpleology. Mark Joyner: Thank you. Audience: Oh, you're welcome. And Tellman, love your courses. Tellman: Thank you. Audience: How can I sue Nike for using, "Just do it?" I know I published that

first. Mark Joyner: Are you serious? Audience: Yeah. Mark Joyner: Well, first of all, in a general sense, I would say – Audience: You can't. Mark Joyner: Well, I don’t know if you can or you can't, but what I would say is,

get outside of the mindset of wanting to sue people for anything. Audience: Oh, yeah. No. I wouldn't. I wouldn't ever do that. Mark Joyner: You would never do that. Okay. Thank goodness. You're

kidding. Okay. You never know in America these days. We've got a lot of people who are very litigious minded.

Audience: Yeah. Oh, no. No. Mark Joyner: Okay. Do you have a question?



Audience: No. Actually, you answered my questions, and I just didn't want to

hang up, you know, _____, you know, you had said my area code. Mark Joyner: You took your shot. Well, you gave _____ _____, so thank you. Audience: And – plus, you used –

Tellman: Oh, I guess he's gone. Audience: _____ an interest. And I know I wrote it first. Tellman: Very good. Mark Joyner: That's great. You're the man who came up with it. Audience: Take care. Mark Joyner: Okay. Thanks, Gene. We've got one more question, guys. Tellman: All right. 781 area code. You're up next. Audience: Hi, Tellman and Mark. This is Amy. This is quite a treat. Thank

you. My question is that in doing these JVs and partnerships around integration stuff, the legal – putting the legal – you know, whatever you need to do legally to set this up. What's your recommendation how to go about doing that?

Mark Joyner: Not being a lawyer, I can't really give you any good advice on that,

but I can send you to a couple of resources. Okay? One website is called Nolo.com. That's N-O-L-O.com. Okay? And the other one is BobSilber – that's Silber with a B, not a V – into Google, and see what comes up there. Okay? Now Bob is an expert on ecommerce law, and he is the kind of guy who would have a very good answer to your question there.

You know, I – if you want to have an agreement there that makes

sure that – you know, that everything's going to run smoothly, he'd be the kind of guy who could help you out with that. Quite frankly, most of the business deals I do are done on email agreements or handshakes. And the reason for that is, you know, writing up big long contracts just really slows things down, and it adds a certain degree of paranoia into the process.



Now if you've got someone to agree explicitly to something by email, that, from what I understand, and again, I'm not a lawyer, is a legally binding process. And if you go through your life that way, you're going to find you're going to get a lot more done. And when you really start to get bogged down in the legality of everything, it just slows down the process of business.

Now that's probably not the advice a lawyer would give you, so again, take that with a grain of salt. But that's my personal feeling on that.

Audience: Okay. Well, that helps me – it makes me feel much better, because

to me, I hope that I don't have to go down that route. So basically, it is done specifically that, you know, if you do this, this is your X percentage, and this is what I'm going to do for you, and spell that out just in an email. And then we agree on that? That's what you're saying should suffice in most cases? And that's how it's done?

Mark Joyner: I think so. I think so. You know, and nobody – you know, I don't

think any well-meaning person ever wants to get involved in that whole process. You know, and it's very, very important to try to avoid those things, because I've seen legal battles just absolutely ruin people's lives. So you know, look. And at the end of the day, if someone has done you wrong, you know, rather than be at a point of suing them, say, "Well, you know what? I'm going to cut my losses. I'm going to take the time back now that I was about to lose on fighting this legal battle, and just get on with my life."

Audience: Right. Mark Joyner: And that's the way I have lived. And I've been involved in exactly

two different lawsuits in my life, both of which I thought were ridiculously unfair, of course, and were asking things of me that were just not right. And in both cases, I settled with those people, you know, simply because the process was taking a lot of time.

Now doing the amount of business that I had, I think I'm quite

lucky that I've only – that I've only been involved in two different lawsuits in my life. And by the way, these were two things – two actions, and generally, it's probably not wise to talk about it. ____ someone – these two different companies took against me, asking for things that – well, one was in fact something that I wasn't even



involved in, but they were accused – accusing me of being involved in.

And I've got to tell you, the amount of time that I spent getting

involved in that whole process was just ridiculously long for what had to happen at the end of the day. So I can just tell you from personal experience that even if you're on the attacking end of a lawsuit, for them, I imagine, the amount of time that they were

taking was probably the same. Now I think that these guys were just doing it to make money. Okay?

But you're not like that. You're someone who wants to avoid that

kind of thing. So avoid these things at all cost. Avoid them at – like the plague, and try to keep all of that kind of, you know, formal paranoid stuff out of your business, as much as possible.

Audience: Right. No. That's great. That's how I like to approach any kind of

relationship. Mark Joyner: That's right. That's right. Absolutely. Audience: Right. And if I can quickly mention, you mentioned the

integration, those two things. The sort of inserting of the thank you with something else, and the other thing is the – putting something physical in when someone ships things out. Those are the two things you mentioned, so those are the – and I'm assuming that if I use that as a basis and sort of creative around that, that's really what you're talking about. Correct?

Mark Joyner: You know, it can be absolutely any process at all. It can be a

process on a webpage. It can be a process when you ship something. It can be the point of sale at a retail end. It can be someone calling in to order something, and then once they've actually finished the order, you can give them a second order there. Give them an up-sell there.

Any particular point in any marketing process is going to work, but some points are going to work better. And again, the best way to do it is the way Bill Gates did it, where his product was already sold. And the second best way is right after a sale has taken place, and then you giving them the option to do that.

So you know, I don’t want to say those are the only ways to do it,

because there are probably ways to do it that I simply haven't



thought yet. This is why I like to think conceptually and just present the overall uber-concept of integration marketing.

Audience: And if I may ask one last one, when you – when we integrated, like

I said, a thank you page with this other option, who gets the money? Does the person – you know, whatever – the shopping, the – what do you call it? Where you place your order?

Mark Joyner: Yeah. Audience: Wouldn't the order then come to you, or then go to the other

person, and then you sort of do that later? Mark Joyner: You could do it either way. And what I would recommend is

having the order actually going to you, because then you acquire the customer as well, which is where the real money in your business is.

Audience: Okay. So sort of – so that's not unusual to sort of approach it that

way, then? Mark Joyner: No, I mean – well, but again, remember, you could do this any

particular way. And it's important to just keep a mindset of flexibility. And if it's not going to work this way, and someone says, "I'm only going to do it this other way," look at the amount of time that it's going to take you. And if it's not going to take you a lot of time to do it that way, then go for it.

Audience: Right. Okay. That sounds good. I like that. Sort of always keep

yourself open. Thank you again. Mark Joyner: _____. Thank you. Tellman: Thank you. All right, Mark. This has been an awesome call.

Thank you so much. As always, you've shared some profound and very, very powerful information. Guys, I can't say strongly enough that if you are working on your business and you're working on getting more traffic and making more money, the reason that I had Mark come on at the beginning of the Secret 17 calls is because I wanted to get your mind in the right place. I wanted to make sure that you were focused on taking the right actions in order to apply the principles that you're learning throughout this series of 17 calls.



And the principles that Mark taught you about integration are extraordinarily powerful. But what's even more powerful are the things that he taught this evening about the way that you need to be flexible in your thinking, and go out there and just start applying the simplest variation of this principle that you can see, and see how it works. And then take the next step. And then take the next step, in order to do that.

Now Mark, I know you have Simpleology 103 that's coming out in a few days. Where should people go in order to find out more about what you're doing?

Mark Joyner: I believe the URL is Tellman.Simpleology.com. And here's some

integration marketing right here for you guys. And if you go to Tellman.Simpleology.com, you can go in there and set up your Simpleology 101 account and start Simpleology 101. 101 is totally free. It's an 18-day course.

We're going to be changing things quite a bit here in the coming

days, with Simpleology 103 coming out. But go in there and check that out. Get started with that. People have been using this stuff for about a year and a half now, and getting really, really great results in their life as a result of that. And when you've done that, go into our community at MarkJoyner.Name/forums, and you can look at the Simpleology section there. And there's a subforum called Success Stories. And that is our most popular board, where people are going in there, telling people how successful they become as a result of using Simpleology.

So I hope that that will give you guys more – it's been well over

100,000 people now, and very, very little promotion on our part, that have joined Simpleology up to this point. And by the way, I have not aggressively marketed this, as Tellman will attest to you. I've been very, very low key about it. But through word of mouth and through people getting very good results, that's what's happened. I believe it's even 120,000 now that have joined and have been using Simpleology for this last year and a half.

So just go to Tellman.Simpleology.com, and just try it out. Try

that first day. Print out that course checklist we have for you. Watch that first day's video. And just see what kind of light bulbs that starts turning off in your head. And hopefully, we can get you up to day 16. We're using something we call the Daily Target



Praxis, that is going to reduce your stress, organize your life in a way, and help you get more done in less time than ever before. There are people who are coming back saying, "Hey, it's taking me two hours now to get what would have taken me a week." Or the standard thing is really, you know, about – it takes them about one-third of the time it has taken them before. And think about how profound that will be, if you can get that result as well.

So give that a shot. That's Tellman.Simpleology.com. That's T-E-L-L-M-A-N dot S-I-M-P-L-E-O-L-O-G-Y dot come.

Tellman: Awesome, Mark. I'm going to go ahead and open the lines, and

we're going to say goodbye. On the count of three, everybody say, "Thanks, Mark." Here we go.

All: Thanks, Mark. Tellman: Thanks, guys. Have a great night. Bye bye, everybody. Thanks

again, Mark. Talk to you soon. All: Goodbye. Good night.

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