ii. r.s. 'rh~~rettrebia$t~' · to of a •• .\-i 'n~ .... . ii \n~ ~ !~

$: II. r.s. 'rH~~RETtREbIa$T~' · to of a •• .\-i 'n~ .... . ii \n~ ~ !~$
:\OJHXA1'fOX O~" 11..\J. Ol{\'. JOnS O. ri'-\VELLE.IJ);~~:Aln.'<.;>< FORf"~ OlEfIRE!). TO THf~ n.'\~K OFIJIEl.tT.ENA-NT'i';·~:;}· (jf~X~;n.-\II. r.s. AUtFOI!C"~. ON 'rH~~RETtREbIa$T"~'

FRIDAY.SEPl'EJ!,{B1Ut 29, 1912.···

u.s.·si'*.;;+E, .... : ....... " Co3urrr-n.!E ox.,An)f:E1) SEltVICES/ .. ':\:'.

. '.' Wl,~hini1f(),I~;;'.'D~€~·.;' ...•... :(.'. The {'ommitt('t, nwt, Put':'*Ullllt tOTeet"SS; l1t 10;10 : .. jn.r09fu·~126,<i}Y:C~

. till' Capitol~ Hen .• 1ohnC. Stelmis;chn.hmf\lr~·, :':., .. ; ".:;"".-. ',." ·!.S·""" Pr(\wut· ~ Sl'11:1t~}i'S Steu'nis.(· residing) .

; Th\tt'mon<l~ Goldwat{"r, .. . ~ Iso prt'.st,mt. :T. Edward·:llras,\·ell~.

R. ,hm1es\Voolsey •. gericl'nl •. selI.·· hl'~'. Slit it-h. professional stuif niembei~;' ;'Ii:il(h·· : -.; .. ;In\jC:Y;:L~43~~afg;r~~;j~$~·ri]~¥ill nS&lcHlt~, . .... ..... .•... ;..,.;;,c 1 ·.·'

'1'li<' ('n.UTUI.\:-;. Om'·c()lmnitt{!ewill. cOlne·tSo1:;(1~i;};~;11:tt~~k~1tm~;:comt"'!~; lllllnd('r to come around alid take the'wihiess'

Before JTon sit <lo,,~n, yon 'have noreligiol.ls sworn? . . ....

. q d '1·r '10.,' . .', .' comn,nn el'lV. lIlLER ... 'Oj 0, sUT, •••• • . .' .' . " •• i, .:: __ ,.v' .,."':

The CHAIRlLDI'. Allwitnesse's ill this lriatterl)ftv~beelX.S~v6fu~twi)1<L .. ilsk YOll nov.-to hold up Jottr right hand~ pleaoo ...•... i":::>; :;f"::'~::ii6r:)::~:':;\ .

Do VOll solemnlY$\vear that yom' testimony iu·all'thf'sepr6c.ea.ihgs'\;::'·· will h; .. th~ trnth~ the wll!)le truth :n)~ l'lothhlg btitthetl·\lth~s()'herp.,i': •..•... :. nlll God g . .. ." .. '. . ••.. ~' . .: , Comm8.ndcr l\ft:LI.Eu. I d()~ ' .. ' . '.' . . .. .

'1'h(' CJTA1R:'<fAN'.Offthe record. (niS<.~l\ss\on oft' the tt'!col'd.) ThcCH'\m~r'\N.Ont.hel'ecord. .' ........ '. ..., : Commftl:dCl\ stnt(>. Y01l'I' .fnn n~me~ plcilS<>, fil;d renl.lSho.wJ?l~~tfi§u .. :~i<:~~<.:!::c.

ha\'(~ b(lCU III the Na,vy and wlutt IS your home Stftte andwheroyou~nre ·· ... 5~oi lOf'Ht{'fl n()w~ pll'[lse. . , ..

TBSTUWn OF COMDR. JOlIN fl; MILtER,'U.S;N~vt . '.;.;",<~

('ommarldl'!' )fU,Lr-:J~. C()lmllnn<l~r .John Albert Mmer"'I'h~,;~beeIL" ' ilL tilt' Sa'·,v sinc(' l!liH. lfy home Stnt<~ is J)(>ln .. ~\"n~. I~nni:p~ntJ~~:,the>. emllHmJllling- offi(,(,l'of Attack Squndron 146 lltNn\-'alAfr:St.'itib'n;I.,;e;;;~ 111001'('. C;tlif. . .. ' .•. . ..... :

Tho ell :\UmAX~ Stat.ioned t,hcl'e, hut von are not ona di-rierl·· .... , . Commllnclf'l' :UILLI':Jt. "we ltre attudl(J({ to the U.S.S. (JtmiJtel'la:t{on,'

:l nd we j·(,f III"IINI home in .1 Illy. . . . ( -1l.a)

Lavelle Appendix 00891

Tlw f'1t.\m~H:,\. W("hll\,'~ ht'~\'ntl knb\l" illtilliry fl('l'fo wif h l"f'ft>t1--1W(·. In fhE>' rttJf>Sof: •.... thin§! rf';""lu"flillg' f.iw hmllhitlg in,North Yi~ttlanl~ '.' .•.....•.. '.

From ~·ouJ.' elu'ri.·r\ ;mu t>IJp:n~NI in th~, missiolls; it: ~ .'

CnmmtH}!.Il."rlftl.l •• ~tCr~.~w~ '. . . '. ~.'. Th~\CII.U~:)f.\X. nh·t'·ll~th(·apPrQximtlt(\ ti~'fh!iI~'fjrlit~l~tiiilt:'nrr~'

,\(laty and th.~ apptoxinmteti~.(~:wij(it1:it;erid~h:: ..... CfllluUl\U(lf'r l\fn.f';}:R~ ',y~ sta:rrf."(luul'-\'-hnt7'we· .

npt.rn.t.iolltot in XO\c"{lmh(w lmtl we finj~hed:.'at)(}nt mjd-~J !ton\{> nt thHt time. .' .... . '. .

S('natot' ~(. '··"'~'·'''n'tv .••• Tll(~ ('ll

. kn.;)w· t IrmlJ :if •.

'; The J .• \fR.'\L\

. IlllY wnY~1l()n0 of to d~serihe your op;er.;n;uon~ and planning-a!

C·mnma.iHler •. L ... U' .......

Tlwf'n.\ ";~-:Ult~llt RI1(1 :1' nt. .' . . .' :\: .. ' .... >'.:~ .. ,', >~~~.:;~J, . .. 1

\\ (\VitnE'~':;s shookhishelld'affirmatiwly;):')::>" "~; 'TllCt~'C1J .. \ltorAN~ rou.:jl.lstdescl'jbt~:w~'\t~;j;~)Uf:. pn.tt':!~rn ·iyftS in t.hls cOlmechon an'dge:nel1lHv;...;..and'·tlien bP~n~~:'~t·;ol(~d6-uii thes~ st'l'ikps hm·f\ ... th(·SQ prO~¢etiYc" .. ": ..

. pJanned protect~v~ n'uctioli. stNkes.. ... wit.h tlien- Lieutenant Groopperand pr~Sen't..Ltimt~~iiu~Ui.n.f.t~;lJ~l~::m~~·'·:

Coulninllder).\.uLLElt •. Of':col1rs~~tIicml"tijOrit,~ straight }ntcfdicti.~n'ope#ti~i)·~·hit()l:£os(iiri~· Hnm, 'wlnch are not of eoncernJlere~ ..... ' .• ,

The ClJMR'MA'!Ir.·Thnti~.cigbt'::i· .. :;: .~ .. ' .. >< Commttmler )fILJ,tn •. Sp~lfieallv,wJth

ce.rn, my underst a.nding· ist.he JW6 mids"oil ~UtU.H~. k.iO.nlh·:~"hJri",wN;;~.J onC'S that 'rott would like me to discuSs t .. ' .

The Cli,\1R-:lfAN.·Thnt. is rig'ht~ It hangs Q'1' ........ ",.

us the Olltline of your operatiOlis. whntyml ~~pt~ns:tbjIIit.ies··lr~'fi.~",,-.;1 your snpedor officer "'ns and let. us get the"" .• M' ........

Commnnde.rl\frr.LElt. Y csysir.. ..... "'. . ..... Tho CnAm}\fAN~ Iha,"C nJrcndy had. a little

morni1l~ and jn~t;to1d you that weare a C'()lrnnlJtitoo·.tl(~m lUfd;·'I)art. t.h~ c')ostit.t,ltionnJ Pl"o.ces.<; and you are . nil wo IH'e mter(l~<l m and. von in(H~ltted/t:o nlp.~th~l'fffVlS1W,.n derstand it and that. is t.ll~wa1 you undelm~tid

Commander }fIU.ER~ Yes, sir. '. . . The CHAInMAN. And you are nOt .. r ~. ~txlnSfbljeifor'w[lIru; .. Ll1jB,

but you tu-e responsible for.teJJingit,w .. ;ha:mve .... iif C'ommnnderMIU..Eft. Yes., sir. , . The CUA1R){AN'. AU right.

Lavelle Appendix

. .

('UlIltll:tndr." ;\ll! ,LElt. ('otle{'nlin~ .th .... t~t·O(t\~:th·(~,h>.W~ti(}i";J1(i~lbi~{I~:::~.s?~:/., ..... . 1m l·ti(·iputt~d ill. (~y ,\-(;.J.\ttth'k. ~qundl~olr14~~~t)'lrt;;t}f'Y/f:H~;;.'JV1f:lIR~!6·:·:;'fr~"· '. ;, OH ,tht.' ,. '()-fIIf(rll((1 iou. .\H· ~twh: om' ·YIll.ti. d.M. ,:,.:.'~:i.:~V.'i~~~.,:.t .. l .. le' ... · .. :.·;:,.~t .. illf":.;~ .. ~~:~,.,:,,; .. :.;.: .. :,,.:~:.,., '.,:. ' I on kit) W:lS \\:,0\ tltt> othp!' (~a r"'lt'r.q t Iw:n1 , n U:·Its$tl..,~~:;r~., tJ ..,:~'::\';;',' ' .. ' tyf'''' mi~Hion~ ! rtHltir'ipatf'ti iH nlll' /)ftbpri\id~,i'n;:,git~t.i~)ft~;; .' .. 'g;;;t'f:(\' I .. nn!! 1 Ufo' t-ht· dh'sion Iwnd rot' ria,· .:\.,.., 1ffl-c:ra.ft~'\.v~;bf.1:0f~tJ,yi~<7'.,.(ij)1',i;,?··:'<,·'~;: IIHl fl<fpt' . gmr('ft~,-:·I·:~O'~fr.{,-I"( - ··om' Ii i t' Willll'eoinn1iina6i'~}:tlna~;fle~!tll~~:>;::: :'.:,{: , ,' .

. mis$ion fCil if \'l'llS lwh:'ft:;t. '. ~" .'. . , ';-ii?\·'.,\·,~: ': ;'}: ',;':;~,'):)';,f>: .. ' Tht· {'H.HR~{'\X. And whitt! ......> - ,:. >,', ... ,,:, i': ,.;'."':.,' Commandt'r. ~fll.u:n~ It. \\":1 S ... flOWl1··llg·· (t;'~~ns:.:~t~e~~~tf~l~tlHti;i\ot,":~l:::;';;:»··

tl~ip:lt('.in th(,~<'NtlHi' mit{- whi('hLieltt,eiiiinL5{~~:,t.ifiedrt.est~'t"";' • ",\',i; . day. I was sehednl<,d tol(·:td thlf, dlird':i'fld:(inttHth(E~sa'rn~·:.jl\i~I(K::fi}'·~.:' .

lijt'llt~nant n'rooPf)(>l" ~·ns·'u~jgned,t()]his·Yflilil!t§{\"7~;l$rj~f~q'f~!1iT~~ ... <~/;·:: pro;dmately '2d~Js' Htr.ttight,:.I~()w'~~~:~t.h~'~:C.~~h~;~;i~f~'~~!;.;".",~A~~e~:;';:::\\' '. ('uhon of t.ht!. rauL Ahont. the·~.('ondmght;.I.:i!ellt.~nant:6~t>t?,er'~me,,:. .":' tO,my stateroofl! OJl the~hjb :l~(lsfl:id:liedid~~i~~tlt\~.§;iJ~tt.i~~.rp~t~jll·. tins type of raJd.I. nsked lunr }n~1"(>.aso~)l.na~1ie; ~ld~J:s-et.h.ollght .' . ther!' wns <iN.·~ita:ndfmtld hr\·61\~(!djn'thesernid~" ...... :":/ ..... :' .. ";.:i~·'.· ., ..

r Mid. "nT{·g~. I thblk:yol1,ftre·tahorin~unnder. .. ~iniStln,~4}~1)a~ril!'~· r ~aid t Iw, R!,les' {)f!~J1gtl~ement ;ftredetirRJi4.'pl,~i.hz:egal~iri1:t>[!:~Jl·' mussance. '" enee<i mten~nc~ nndl:~~no:·4~1t.'T:~t)llpk~.that· .. h~ . understood it. H~sni<lhe didp~t ,\':tnt, toparliciptit~;:ij}·~he;m.ia.·r;said -you wiJ] ~it}H'l' tty onJhis rnid OJ··tu~ll-yoin·:wiii~:hl:'r:~i~:I~Jf~l';g~i~~' to k('(·p you on t.h", ~~IH~(hll(M.th(t wl'lttt·n<lrtlly~11~luJe'YJHch>1:f.i1I!f1(as, ... the direcwran.d ifyoti .dQnotgotornnn:~·om·~irCry.;;:ft~:~~id'~''-y~~rha.~:-: . to fm11yonr Wtnt!Sln •• , .' ......' ",:,." .• ," ,.j",;".:.,."

TI1P snThe thinghnpp~n~d. thnt,hnd'lmP~npdthe.Jn~t;:2:.or~\aii~.,,· . The Wf'nt,hc'f stu)"(\( 1 btid~ did not. n,}}ow us togo,.,~n·.the ll~.i~iQlt., iU:id. ", . Wt'. diu 1~{mtinue' flyin~'OlH;i;tlft~rd;(7iiHn ~1~~in;r~~;'Hc·con'iinile<l:tP:c.-:· ill' ill; my. willg'm'~n.·lr(' ,,,,,mild t.!oto ourt.i:u~gefsinJ~lQS."~hich~~~· , a~t.Hany· our dh'erttargetsfor the mis..,iontoQuang ,J..nn,g'~ lVeJ11st. ('x('('ntf'd th{' diff(,:rt'nt, m)s,l:\ions ri~ht then. the.n.hortmjsSi()hs~ ", ".

A £tIll' a p(>l'iod of nhont Gor 7 da;n:. we l{'ftt1ie litte~Jt.'~ttR1lU o\"~r, anlt Wi' m'I'- ('om I}):,! hOJ!If', Rt) h(> was fWV{>I' pllt to tbelcst-aitt(),,~llt>tJl~l" lwwastofivOf·tnrnhiBwin:..-sin. . .' .... , -.' -..... ::,~,"" ..

'I'll!' CU;\l!UtA!I:. HI' nf'\'PT ,';'!t!1;Pllt on th"testsOtll.rtlithilt..'fl)J!ht'~, .....

is ~~;t~·;~\;:::~~~\;.r!\fH,u:n. So. ~ir 1 thnt i~ riJ!ht. •. . .... ", .~' .",~:f}7t57 \\\. WI'Ut in Yoknsukn.~Tap!lll. anflinpropflrflti6n'for_oomjrig:,h~~;:.

and. W{Al'(·. Hwrt·f{w 2(111,\,,~ and un of n~aldrleutheim'ftsion:oftfttH#6iitb stllrt.(\d, lihont ,\pl'if 1: -W"p lmltH'flint("iy turned::;ftrrillri'a;.'ahdSt~f!.fn~t W>UHl una aid r-;Otn(' Itlt'f'{' int('rdictjontlj~htBd()"'n:-otr;rlf;·Sitigoii:intp'· th(> a'"NI of ;\ Ii L()('. whi('h ·Wtl.S undC>f si\·~f't';. a~ y6nknow.~, -<. ','. ',:

Tilt' f'M1JJtR:f1lltion O}Wt'ftt-E'd in thp An Locvicinityfoloaoonti\ur S • • hiys. ,\ .. ·hieh is k('y. I thjnk~ to An [«)C>. "


"\t. t iI,1 f f it Ill' ;H' ~tl'alllt't I I.:wk II P Hm"' h : it; waf; • \ Iwi11~ n,nd wfkn~w f hl'1I !hat HI(' I n,'!'ildi'nf had aUIl()uH('('(l t.hlltht~ W!if; :.romg t('n~stUll(l: hOIHIIIH:.rnftJwumth. ' ", '-,

I g-nt ';til ttl(> pilnt~ ill till' I'PlHh' f'fWHlt: wi, W(,)'{' ill shock. I am surt.':';l lot HI' lwopl!' W(·!'P--SUf·pr·jst.t'!. ".(> :\11 ,got in tIl(> l~adYI'o()m~nd tatk('d ahollt it .Hld I ~t:ttt'd. ",\nyllOfiv: with ~nlV qUillm~ r~ ,'" ,

Th,\ CU.\HDf.-\ \. Ex('us{~ HW ltl:-t;l tnillUh~ .. plen~. (;('HtlNHf'n~ Wf'UI'(' ~oin#!'tt)hdp mnk(· a (luorum OV~J"UH~re., ( I-:t'('t~""-;' ) , ", ' 6' , TIlt' CH.\m~L\x. I~ttllS()rl'~'w(, 'w(,li~iJlter:rni)tcil.YotFwe~:,taking

u~a Jon:,!' tyll"n "r(, W('l"t~ ill~t.,j, .. t~ptNl. .lnstpic~)isul);pleaSc~ """ ",: ""~;' ;-> ' ' ~'nmnlatldt'l' ~InjJo:I:~ Itwns .\prilli).rtllin~~"~(n\'"\~~ wl~l-\\'~;)",~re

,t!om;,r to IJ{~ :.. ... )mt! .. ~~ ;l' math~l' of fttd"t¢.Hinphoti:tthc'lU~xt.-day.'"J talkNt tn nil thP-llilofs:md in the t'()Hi'S{'Qf'tlle'coil"~rsatiollI nInde t Iw. !-.intelu("l1t, uuy)(wl~·t hut hndll~n'y'qtUlhilH orrt.'&'n-ati-orisftl)()11t~':gQ.ing, to-fin what, \Vt· wN'(·jntm\(1iu:r,'totlo,th~ llc~t'dt\y~,pl&tseroJri({~:.~e in my statt·room. I \\'m,t right to. ril~·l~()(jrll. t-hen.l .. i~iltenitrit(11'OOp~r ('n m(~ t hC'I'(', ' " " , , ,', ", _ ", " ,-~ :

, H(' Raid h(' <lid Il_otwauttt) pltl'tif:ipttt(l"in' th~rni(lsintoHl~riprth; J gIl iii. tlH'I:(' j~ no. WIly he,eould {'on('eh~~"of, n,ny d(·ceit. ,0" f'rntld in' tb~ l'aidR. tiu' Pr<'shlNlt has 'tm no UtH'<,<1 thllt,we<:tl'eg-oillgt.()do-it~ lVhritare ,-ntll' l'('aS(HlS now'?' ",', ,'" ,', . lIl' snys h(.-JuuUosthis motivation to tlvnndhis clcsiretoJly.lac~ ('t'ptt'd tilltf ntfac(' vu,lu£> nnd thnttsin \\·I·itlil~.J immcdiately-grotlnaeKl 11 im ttf, Umt, tin} .. !l,ful stnrtml P"oc('(hir("s tor(>:voke: his wIngs.: '

The CU.\1I!l{'\X. SUPllOSt' youjnst.;t,Iij'ol1. H(\wn~ lat(\t·~:discha.rg~~H ('ommltnd,'r :.\fu.u·:n Y \'8. si r; h~ sta:vcd in t he,S<{uadrou',coilt.inued

to ,in hiK .1<.h. nnd upori n·t,m'll. t.o th(~, Fnit('!dStnt.(jS he-w~ tl'aiisfeifed to t IH' :r\antl .\ i rRt-ntion :ltJ.tf'htOOl·\,. Wh(~l'('h(' was scbns~qucntly'sep-Hntft'd fmtn tltf :\n.vv. "fhM "'~is th{"lnst I Raw of him. .... .', .... '

Thl' C n.\ !l!l['\::'\. ,I>id );'01'- hn \'~ nn:r\}n!,ti ri tht'; 'mntterof, t.lm,di,s;' ~'h:\l'g-d lIt· WIIS gn'(;'u an honorahle (hsdllU'~t~, as wc'undcrstllndlt, rsth:'~.(·o"I·('('t,? ' . , '. ....

Commandt'rlfn.riJ-:H. Yl"s,sih absolutel\'. . '. . ." '", TIl(' (".I.\m:l[~d. ~)}dy01t htn·('.imy p:i!'t' itlthllt?T!mt.: ifl,'di,d'yi)u

11:1\'4:' to sign :t {·('l·t-lfwate OJ' lO'olH£>thmg hk(l thntns lus fOl'mer:'comIna nd i Ilg- ofik{'{'?

('OIHIH:tlldf'-I' "[H.U-:!:. XU. :-oiJ·: it wus ~l nOl'mnl HCPllr:ltiou. H~ bad :O:t'I'wd II is tiuH': h('lIml Hl('t his ohli:,..ration:-: und was sepurntcd from t!l(,X:ln'.

The· ('Il W:,U,\::-;, 1\"11:-> tll('!'£' nlly j'(Hlsid£'J'ntion given t() not giving IJim :m hfHtol'tlhJ~. dil'\t·h:u'g'f' 01\ ('~I)ressing it heUer, was ,any con ... :--i/lt'f'atioH ;,!in·n to )'('-fllsiu:,! him nn hono~\bJe discluir~';'-;"" ,

CommatHIN' lhu F:n. To m~' knowl<-dge, ahsolutely-not. As far as 1 :UiI \'OJw('-('fl('t! : nn.

Tfl(' {'IL\tICU_\~. Y(·~. antlyoll would hM'{' proh .. "tbly hear<ialx)llt: it ift!wrt' \m~1 O· ·O'··t'!'J71!!1f!}

('orntn:lIl(l(·!, ~ltLtYit. Hhink~., . '.{ '~~ TfH' C!!.\IH~t.\:-';. (;oiu;,! haf'k~ tlwu. HOW. to-th(,-5e gentlemen may

wa!lt \";;u t,) n~"'f ah··,----(~<·t'ltl{·nH'H. th;~ j~t!H' ,'nrmwHlii('r thM wenskcif tooo llere~Mmer.

nt, b:-: I ~·('lt in nw Sa\'y :"iu<'(' !!t~~+ al-:<l h .. Will' in charge of this Attack


\ . -~

: .. ;

.'.' , '

.~.

"

417

~(lU:ldf'OlI IHi, lit· kllt'w tilt' !it'UINllIllftltuf WI' h:t(l v('i'!tt»rd:wundh(' I las n·/ah·d !~hotlt til i;-; "I:I,IlIlt'tl ~t !'ik~' t h.:lt Li('ntet:iliiltGl'()('iJper was to r.lll~t> p,,:"t, 111.' tlmr II(' !':II~('tl III~yhJ{.{·tlOH!" to ~rom~.

(lOin;,! b:wk IIlto tllP:-p thl'N' 4t"If.W:-; Oil (,lnnn'" LUIlO' t}mt.VOH hn,'e tt'stiti('d :lilotlt. awl f/l(· 1'/:lIlniu;.r of thn!,(.~t";·ik~,~yo\l'~:-t"rt~~vriu pl;.ly~'d a I'~llt •• a IH'jnc'ir1nl 1'0I.· in flit· pIaunhl:.r (}(tho. .. ,{std~t'R.nJ1d ~the hn<"ftll;:! of tlH~st· UH.·l\. tOl'mm' ,·xttmt.lnm !iUI'(~;.JUst~ru ah(,~lrll\nd tell H~ what "on did nwl how it was :t H dum' nlld wlltlt..w;ls said?

('ollun;mdt'r )fH~LJ-~U. Tlw til'Rt I'aid, as the S(;tHltoi'll(~r~nient1ilnNI! W:lS {'('lIlh· it raid on. Yinh, U l't'('omuli:';Sl.uwe rnls::tiou<wl'r Vi1\h nitfli.>ld. w}H;n tIle .\-i nln"m(t, W('r(~ an down; th(:~vdid not, pn.rtidpttfe It( ali. I W~b lint lnyo[\'I:-d in am- W:tv. lam notsure .. -I ('anuottu.ik fH tll:tt. . • .

TIlt' Cn.\HDf.\x. 00 to tilt' Ull('. thnt Y(HI :11'(' fninHiar with. ('onlllml\d(>l~ )Iu.um. The fif"St OIi", QUfiJ11! Liln}i One~ I tlhl pnr~

t.ic·ipntt! in. Our :dl' wiug' (·t)U1lllumler bl'ief(~d the tI1~~lt.; IncttiltUy.flew tlHdlight. 1m jed. He mH; in H Jiglitt't, :til'('rnftl~ndlwasin:'all!\ttack' H.:l'cl':ift. Tilt' mi:-:Hion was RIH'e(·ssful. 1 ntdligell<!('" wa~ f,..7fithet'ed IlR to· tlw f:ld, that (J) ther~ tWl'(',lIig nil't'mft· on th(>. field,nnd (2) the fnet that 'n~ Jocate(l when~ tlH'y were. .

Tlw CfIAW:tUX. You ullJo!tdcd vour bombs th(~re ~ COIlHn:mder )IIJ.u:n. Y('~~, ~il'. .... . T:H~ ('u.\IR;\L\x. ''''hilt. hostilit.y did ,Y()u('xperieu(;e. hefOl'(' you un-

loaded fhose bomb::.;'? . ('ommnnd(>I" :\hU..J·:R. The first. ail't'l':lft fired on WllS th(l- 1'('('011-

llaiss.:t1l(·c aircraft, t.hr.lL\-: •. TIll:' CIIAIn)fAX. Thefil'st wlulU f'OIlHnnnder lflU.EH .. 'I'f,efii"Rt nircl'afttlmt was fired upon was the

!'('('OIlIWissttuC'(' :lireJ':l ft. H{~ was o\'(~r the target first, wnsfired upon ll;: ti'ipl(" A. Th{>re w(~n'fonr S':\:\['s on tlmt.ftight, fonr SA-2missiles ii I'Nl, a n<1 \n~ f'NlctC'd a~Hmch.

Tlw ('H,\lHlU=".'Vho ga\'o tJw hrielin~! How longhe.for(' Hie l'Itid \'\:tS mad('w:ls it. In'idN{? .lust 1!0 into thnt. Yon se~,. whatwc. wnnt to kllow il' what wns said nhollt the. planning'.

('olIlmande-t· lIu.u:n. 1'11(> plannhlg i~ 1l()J'maHy clout>, tIH·flnnr. spN'iH(' plans nr(' dOll(' thl' night ht'fOl·e. .

Tilt' C'1I.HIDf.\X. Y(>fo;. Comma nd('1' ::\hU.F.R. TIl{' final hric.fin~ M"C ¢v~n between 2 and 3

hOUl'~ prim' to t:lkeotf tim{\. They nm ('ondudrd in the. intelligence C('Ufpl'on tIl<' ship and (n'(>}' dost'd circuit. TV .. Theynr~ ~xtensh"e and all pit;\S-(,g of the fli~ht at'(' ('O\"I'1'(,(} find tlH!~' are cmrcre<l.in detail by !lsill,!!:1 f'/Wt:klist. prim:u'iJ.\'. and n mis..~i(}n planning guide, which is t~;.;tt\llsin'. fOlll'to fh"(>, Jl:t;!!Nl in l(\n~tfh,

So tlH'I'{' j::.; !loth:n;! that "ould :tl'iS\e tllnt ~'{)U ftt*(\ not prepnretl for ilild kniH\' what WHI should do.

'Ynwn ym\ ar~ ol)f>ratin~ with mort' thnn hm nlreraft in n. ~np, ,nIH lww' to hno\\' (':'mdi,v \\'hat ('l't'f .. ;hody ('1~ i~ ~oinl! to do ~ YOll

{',Hi i!l{'l'{'HSi' yum' "hmh.'t·;4 fOf' df)in~ thl' l'itrht thin~ in tJw e"pnt of an H.CI'i,l(>!lt.

""1 " ,.- I 1 . •• J' 'flIP t rurnn.o:. • om' rfHt't l{'f"f> '\'a~ yon W(,1'(> ref'('u"ma: t te mstl'ue-t :nn:. :md Ow 1 wlt"ifu£,.r:'l :mfl !~ n l'ath('l' timn t-rivin1! th~m ~

('oi:Hn:md(>~' .\1u.Lf-:r:. Fm' thut point. yes.


41~

. 'I~h(> CUAmlL\x. 'Who W/lS {!i\"ing' you thescbrie.tlnQ'Sftnd ~'hojvn.s .,!!'I\'WA" .ron tlJt~ instrndionR nna 'what didtheysavf:', ~'..:

~ ~OnllH!Ul('l't·lhu.En. Fh'8t~ t he briefings nhvays st~#witlia th,'ri.thel" h .. '~f. "(' ~t thl' w~th~]'. ~:ond. tlieint.eHigcnC0; omcet~al"'ays Iwipf8, JI(> Jwit"fs on th(' o()jedin~ of the mission~the; looation- of'th~ tar~~t. w!tat dl"ft'nR('~ are tlulr<>: then he ends it,. with ~he rules.of enga~l'(>,Jn(>Ht, whut rules iu'{> diti't'l"(>ut beretluln:they\\-crt'(Rl\~'pJn(~,\ <>IS(>. . ...., ..... '" . .:

Tlw rnlt~ of 'mga~(·mellt. nl,,(' n (,:ollthiribnsthh,g!:tl,1ey.,ap~r. .. in !.',;

('n'I'"," lll'i('fint! nnd over theJI?I(',"ision. The air:intel1illence officer,giveS them. Th('l'(" is nc· douht in tlleir minds what the rules were.

The ('II.'.H:)l.\X. ,nUtt wel"e thev! .' '. COklnn:md('}' .\[u,u:n. ThC' l-nlC'i w(Ore we wt'll"e. PToo.(>eding w-itllthe (,

1'('('oHnnl~~an('(' nir(~nift-tl,~,\,,;~ approached w()eame,i:rff~mthe.bn:ck-7 as w(' appl'On<:'ht'<l thl", horderlin(l>' fl-om:Nolth y!~tl\airi;~ the::~nriais~ .. :-;IUlC:C~Ill't'mft went out. m fJ'(Hlt of lfl' andarcheddriither'lldrthalld C1Hile Rround. dn(l to the CX{:('~siv{1t Hpc{'(lo\'el" Ui~a.ttaek'nircrnft~·:Tl}ey 111'(' 200 1~.Ht's ~U\ houi- fnstf~f'.. ." ..... " : .. ' .··c",::...: .. ,·::.r: S~ h(' took ~ }onirer route. :u·rh·cd.ftswe, app~n.cbe~ft.he.:.~r@tfroin.

rile .1l()J:t h~ ho Tr(,(,·] n'd t.ri pIe A ~fh·E'. ,r e.J\g .re~eiv¢'Fart~$~?g:r~~lJ.:~ mOlent.lOns on our eqUIpmcnt .. In the alrcrdt-.-t.he,elootromceqmp,;. lI1eut. W(' h:w~. At thnt. tiine he ('alled llewasbeing,~fired\npom~:We~" TH'O('("C'dcd to th(' field wh{>1'c hewns jnst'approachiri#.r.:the~northend.of., it. ..:\t tlult tinie we had fonrmissil~sfired:at. th'e·tlight,and"",e.f¢;'. , sponded h~~ u.ttu('.ki nl! fonr ai t-era it on the misS~la '~~f~~ n,nd.'tlieotJ:l!~l' " nnes, two ait"emit on the- rlUlwny~nnd t.woonthc. trlpleA~ntes,.whlch W{' low.\\' wh('l'c theywcl'e, hasj{,~l.ny. Once you can seethritri firing!j'ou kUffi\- exact'ly where they are. . ..,' .. ' , ...... ..' I.

Th(" CH.\riuf.\x. St.aj;ill~ on t,hir.; slu.l1e·misS!o~, thissan1e~trilte.·.go l,.:tek and t('H us nctnnlh- what voltr mstl'ucbollt;l.were rmd· t.ellus'aU tht>. instJ'lwti()l)s that you hadi)e'iore jot. Jeft;aoout.'-this·, l?a'rt;~\t1~i' stril,('. "'.' '.. .' , ...... '~:>.';<~>""" ... ,.,......;: ,,/.

Cnnllllan<t('r l\hu..}~~.Instru('tion~, ;\'\·.el·e·;afte1",th~.>·br.iefi~g:~:by-tll(:r ,!(" iuh·HiW'lW(1 ofl'i('('l' on the Ru]c'S of J~nia~ment,~ii.nd;;i~L#a:$4ettiil~<i·. t.· The fli~ht-.. Ule air wing conurumder.Co~Hnap.der;:E~gert; ~eSCrifkd ~~f' thc details of the fliuht.Hed(>scdbed .whatweshotiIad«(aiid.lio~jt (.',_ wus to bf' dOH(". H(> d{>5eribed if attncked u-e ·woitld.attack.· ..... ;:'.

HNltlt<W, tl myriad of ({<-tails nre h1Yolved~exactlyjlistto t.lle execl,l- f finrl of it. . '. ..' ~,'.:

T!w Cn.\w.\t,\x. ,\Vllllt. \vas srtid. if (m~·thing~ about if YOl1 were not : ':', :ltt~"eked ?". .' . . ...... .' ':'::. !:::~ .

Cmnmnlld(>J' Mn.um. Jfjf1ilot udtt1ac:'ced. thef

r*eCOh

' nnai~dstlnee:ajrbcrab'lft :.~~.::;.'.'.~.:.~.~.:,:'.' \\'ontd haw {'rossed tllt'(' d un wen ont o. t ercanwe' Pl"Oa y ; wnu Jrl 1m '"P rl('\'(~" gotten t() the fipJd. ~\·('Jl. ." .... .,

The ('!.nm~r}:\·.1 knfl~\·. hut wJu.lt did ltC .. teU ,~ou before t. h. iAJlig. h~ ~.: .• :4nxt('d wlth t'NN-enceto If yon wer<~ n()tllttaekedfU(J~I'fev~'

Cnrmn:uHI(·!· ~h',LF.R. If not nttllf'I\ert the air intelligence officer sim- .', piy said we \\·t"re not al1otn.'d tomn in.

T!l!' CIt.HinD:":. 111(> air int(->m~r('JH>('officer what" nowt . Cmnmtm<if'f" Mra.En. ""e w~n." not allowed 00 attack if we did not

t:07lW nndt'r attaek. . , . 1'h13 C l L\ un£;\ ~. Did he is C.tnR lJ Y tt'H .\·OU thaH ,


I 4In

«mlltnnnti('l' ~[lJ.U·:R, Tiw ah' intdlib7(~)lt:e officer diu., yes; thilt is l>art or Hw rllli.':> of eHln1CY('fllt'Jlf. ' .

Tho CrHW1H.,-;' <>n thut pnrtienhw 11j«ht? ('tHHlllundt.'r,Mu.IJl·;n. y{~S~ ::;11': no donl~. about, that. . TIt(> CH.HIOL\X. It tni~ht h:ln~ bt'(>Jl hecause I WItS clUIHSV in :ruv

q\)('~tioHS. hut it looks m;:(~ it Wnl'$]llu'<l to get YOU to focus on: that point. \\~:Ht th<>l'e nil\" }1('sitllnev about it? ~ . .

( '011 II H;J,ii d<;r .Mu,u::u:So; thnt is j nst one of tlu~ rules-of eilga!.~rrt,mt. wldt'b he ~0\·et·5 ,directly, l'\'cry tli:.rhtlike t.hitL. You do not attnck tmlt'ss ynu ar(>; hroul!ht tnl<:ier nttllck '. . . '.

Tho CILUu)L'X. \VllO wus t.hat intcHigence officer? COBllJ1llndpl' lIu.J.Jm. Li('utt">lHmt Commtmder Vanderslic!'. the ship~s

iHtt·lli.reuco oflieer. . Tho::"'CH;\Tn)1.\~. '\1um' islH' now! Dowutkn-ow ~. ' COUIUltmdcl' :\fuJl .. m~. } lids iu the ""!'lshirtgton aretl.; h~ i~ sftl.tioned

~m '. Tho CnAIR:\Lu;-. Stationed.here? ConnnanderlItuJlm. Yes. sir. . ,_ Tho CUAlltJUX. Ha,*e vou Secm himshlcc'11cgothei-e?, '. ....... . .. ' ('onmHlllder )Ilu .. lm .. l"" eS; hc works in the.BuPerB.bhlldlllg,whcl'e

lw h~lS h('en. sta,ying. '. ," .•• ~" ' .. :.:' "';':" ::.~_<. ,. "" .. Tlll'CH.\m)r.\'X'.~rr.'Yoo}s(';'\'· of our S'thft·.L.:.\"I'en~:.~riythnfg else you .

, .... :ll1t. to say alollg t.h.at, line \'rllilc we 3rc,oll tli.\t? I wa.sgoingto~_can on hun HOW t05e{' 1f he has tll'ly qu~StlOns; .'. '. .-. .'

('onllHftndet, MIU,F..R •. Ther~ 'Isas llO douht in. anybodts mind wllat t I\(> I'U h·s W"!·t~. I fw(' did Hot COIll(' nndti-t' attack, we probl.\b~y would ,not lH'e (>lased t-lle- field. The reconnaissance plRne "as ahead6£-.ils.an .. d

~dosNI t,he field; ItS he approltched th(><field,!he came under attack v,nd we pt"o('eed('d to close th~ field Ohl"Sclv8S; '" . . .... '.. ." . . Tl!e CHAUmAY. YOtlsuyyou pr6~nbly would-not h!wecl~d ill on the held, 'Vhy ~lo you sn~ probahly? . '. . .,., . ......, .

Con-Hlland!:r ~IILr..F.R. It lsa rnattcr of 2to 3mmutes from. t.heborder in~(? th~re, just to tnl'J~ YOni'Sc~f closcto\vhat,is t~e!e.-<·· _, . :' •....

llw OUAm>\rAN. Gomg on then, to theseothe~ thghts,you" a~,not liHlin~d to jm:;t these partieulal' three. If thet'e:w01'e:others into'North' \~idnltm thntyou have personal k:now)('dge of -did: YOugohifb North Yit'hl.im under the Rnlcs?f Enga~~!llent ollnnX'ot!let fligh.t ~

C ommnndcr MU:J.'ER,PnOl' to Aprl] -Ii) 01.' AprIl 16 ~ The CUAIIUIAX. Ye!'$; priort.o thecbrtnge-- . COl1lmttndet' U!J~l.1m. ;\0. sir: ab~ohltdy not. TIl{' CHAm~1AN. This ·\\, .. 5 tilt:' only ont>! CnlllIlIltHdC'!' )fn,I,'Bn. Yt'8. sil', ~ The CUAnouN. "~et't~ ,';on bdd~d to go in flU ~my othC"[< flight? ( 'mntiUmdN' lhu;,,:u. Ah~olHtel \' hot,

r The ~:ll.\1JDtA'='l'. Did you h(~al"any briefing offlig-hts to go in ()\'er ~ (Il't It \ letnnm O\'(,I' YOU r system ?

COHHmmdN: l\f{~.L;:n. So, ~ir: the Hnle!-> of Rngu,gt'n1ellt anoW'y()u~if yon an' workm:r m. Ll\{)~~ m one' o( the 'pass ttreas-lIngiaJ?nss or

tli h?h:H~W P~~-if you are workwl! m the passtlrea, wlllCh »'1"0 j,{,,.dWfWlJ POlnt.f" \\'hen~ theS tr',\: t(} keep tl.lc pl\~eI~S€d to stop

thf' ttm,;' of trUd{R, If yon han" a trIple .A slte In North Vu·tnam come up a~ you \',.-hHe yon art· bomhing there us a th~at to you, you nre


alll}\\'Ni to h01ll1; thai tl'iph:.\ sit(,l·jlllltthpll.Jtis inlm~1titt~tlHdjt,j~ l'if!llt tht'I'P. Tlwl'(~ is no (f<>la~;, nohe~itatio:i'l.yoit ctiilrio~,'gd,ha~k':njid flllnk uh()ut It 111HI J!ft luwk, '", "'" ,': .T!lt' ('H.\lJaJ.\~. Tlmt·is l'Ntlly when you ure ItttackIng"tllot.gl1, ;1

~Ih' III Ln()~~, ' ,," ','" COBlmnndrr< :.\fn.r.tm. Yes, sit'. , " ",,' " , ,:,c"', ,",

Tht' ('11.\ m~f.\x. And thi~otlu:l' ('om{tS into~intifl'biT{,NortllYit'f. Willi t D()(,s it 'lun·(\toshowhosti1it.v,or:Jltst~" __ '"", ',,' ",",;'

('miunnndt'Y" :\fru;RR,-Y(lS, Sir;Ul}(hll~t,ne\-;~r:c4m~>i.l1t(i'plll;y;:,mollgh,. :1Sf.u'ai;IkilOw. ,'" " ',' ",," """:,':,, ,'",",' ",,',' '. ' The Clf,\rmr,\~. Ur. "'Tool$ey, as I sllY"is on'o'tlr stn.fl':ili1d,h(dlns~ell info this quite (t hit.' , , ' , ,'"" '/ ' '"""",;: '" »> :', " "

:\fl'. ""oofsn,v,; (Io yOUhlW<' some questioll J:Qrf,'\vnnf.foJisld, " ~fl-. 'VO()J'SKY. Y (>s. If r. ,Chllirninn. ',':,~/',)~' ;:':> ", ,';' ":,;,:,X;", . ,';:;':'

Th(\ CIIA1R)tJ\;-':.- (}C!tdowlit hei·~ ,"~hel~~>Y9lfenil;1)(H!efutd',~Y·tli~~61)1~'

.J11~1[~~~'V~~~~~!~:~,C:;lnn~UJ)(1~}~ ••• 'tPI)1;(}~ji~~~~1~\~11~p·~';¥'t~f,~~~4'~fii,~it, . J:..mntennl1 t.. (.'rOOpl)(.il·,{·nlll(~ ,to ",yo~l, ftncl;Sfudt1ult'lre-~;dlcln~~~:'\Vtl-nt;:t(). fly,

flHV of t-ll("n'llSSiollS h{Norl-h:YjefI{amJ.' " ,:.' ,;:':,::,:,,:'~~t:~)'~::'::'"':' .....• ', , ('~omrt1~tlld(lI· .. Mru.lm.Th<'>ifii·st·,.tinle',or'f.he'~corid't.i'ri1e~,"'} :Ul'.1VoOJ ... (,;'j~y. The' fii~t. time, "':.' ' .. " ':';"";".' ' '.'.,' ComnH\1)del·,l\hr~!.lm.l":<:}lll.dsa¥ it,-":~,~iri:F~b~lr~~.Y::, ':"""" .•... ' ..

. :u 1'. 'V OnJ.R}:Y; DId ,yoHllldwnte to, ]nm:t\t,th1tt,tnn~),tht\tvo\\ would cOlltinucto fetlliln,tI\(in SOlltll' ,Victl'ulnli;flnd;,J,itnos.?':,:'/"x. " ';/. '

C0nlma.nder~ftI.u:'R: 1.irkdic~tt('d'tohhil,th~t?li~"whtil(:1·ftyJhQ. m:is~ sion nsschedl~}pdor 'hewohld:n:~tf(f~'; ',:' ";:'~':):"";f;\:";",>-§:,~,~:,,,,'t.,, ,,:,,::~.

1fr. 'V(){H.Rl'iY.Di<}.yon .illd.iMte:J(t.lliJTf:-iliitI1fttf3()riy@s4~ioli:i~':;~~)+: '~ny t.ha t, YOIr ,'were sYlnp~th~JG,'TI;th\hi~'ifeNip:~~!i?t:yoJi ~ljl'lderSt90tl whnt he ",us conc:cl'nedftbot(t'?·· ." '~'." •.• "'.:,':", .. , L,:,>,,-,:P):>""<,:':'" .";0:'.,'

Commnnd~l' )flu.lm. Iecrt.>thily reS15e.ctJiis''feelirrgS.<:" ' ' :\Jr. 'Voor .. ~J~Y. Did YOU indi(!nte,£ha,tt6hiin?",<.,;,', ':;" ........ ' Com in and('}' ;\-[II.Lr~R .. Cel:tainly'-,l, toJd(lii,m~:I~k~e(rl1i~:;~ciiihlgs f

I ttlwa.ys Imve. I llntLs('lcctc{lLl~nt-el~ant'Gto~ppe1;Aocome t()~the squa.dron mys{'lf... ' .'. '. .' "',, ", ':",.: :::'",' .".:

1ft'. 'Voor:\;R:Y. lVhnt did von say ",;hensoniiidi('fih~dt;O:hirii thtt(: -"onW(')'I) symimt,hetie Ol'tUl(l("t'StoOd hlsfedh'igs~ , " " ,

Commnnd(~l·l\<frrJr.RH. IUeSSl>.llee'? ..... . ).[1'. 'V(}Ol","r;y.~\.sllt'nl·l:'T nsyon can rem~mhe'r. , '. ..' . ' COlllHutfHlel' Jfn.r.};n. 1 Bnid, Gn·gg-. I rest)(>('t what j'on nre>Sa.yiui!.

"~\' lln! ilbidin~ h,v til ... RniC'f; of'Entrn~rem'flltns.fnl· ffR Itlndersi'nlld' rl}(,IH and aR f::tl' Rsth<'-y HI'n und(,:l;gtoodhY(:"~'i'Yhoay.Tt.hink)'()tl ;U'(' \\T{)1Ig-. 'Ve are lwt'(,to (10 n. job. IlireIligellct:.gl'lthcl'lng}sa:,~v~ry lmpOl'tnnt llspt'ct.At t-1Ul-t tim£>, indications rromof:he-r.Sotll'CCs:,'l.hich hi, ""lS nota,wlU't' ()f ('('t1':tinlyl~cl me. to say tha.t-.Thethhigs' . .th:it;,llc di(l lint knowm' did not hit-,\,(' nc('~ss to,wllidlTknew nfhcleths:'ulis;' ~i()n~~ \'Pt'Y impm·t:mt. m()r~ important than he could 8t>G' frorri.'Jiis 1('\'(,1" 1 am Hm'i'>. t\~~~;-:),

~11'. 'Yoou,a,:y' ". hM, ,,-m'p thoR(', thint!B '? . .'VV"/~:~, ('omHUlUd{'r .\fn.u:R •• fuRt t.!U\ Imi.ltlup .of ~\tppli~ rmd .trOO'ps'~ttd

how tlU'v W{'I'P ('nnm'l!!; t.he HwurslOns mto l,aos by lflgfill-c.mTt\ ! t/t·!t'('Nl! and othl.'l' thhi~. . .. , ..

:\1l'. \rOoT .-:J-;\", lVhnt of,lw)' thln~"S?


;j:.

421

( 'Ollllll~l !!dPI' ~ll1.I.EI~, .lllst ha~ic-:t 1I.\' 1m i lflul':-; of l'lWlUV(Orr,(!$whkh p('rhap~ dIdn't l'~}H'I' llllf) his thinkil1;! of w}wt wus goiilg(J.I'l. :-'. .

)(1'. n~O{fJ.,sf-:'f. Ht' \n1,.n't Rwan' or t h{,lmildups ~ ." .... ..•.• . ('oHnnnwl('I' jhJ.U:i:. 1 am sure }I<' Wll$ aw:u'C hut not :isilw:lre us

I was. )[1', ,rool.1'ol:\'. 'YIH'1l Iii:. ('allwf/; WHI the s~'cOlid time. whnt did he .-

!";', \' ) ., . . _. . .-.,-.: .

..• ·C~mn.l:lndl"· )fU.U:f!. H~ !:mid he {Ud Hot; Wftllt to go hnC}{jl~totj~'~: WH't It to hCtll!b: Iw did not w:tnt. !o p:\.l1idt)~\t~ inthebon'lhil~grn.id.s: i H t h(1- north; he slid II<' hurl logtlns moti \'atioh ttl fiv:in<l desire'.to:H'\·.· .'-Th'lt wm" his b~\sic t'~ason~ I think. ... .. , .. " . . ... '.. "".'

::\11', 1ro(IJ.[';J--~\"'. Did he iudicllte to YOli'iltthnt time thrtthc\,'o.nted,not to th- ann-norl' ~lt. all ? ~ . .

{'onmiitudf'r lbu.F .. n. Y('s:ves. .' . . . ." .... ' lIr. 'YOOl.!"J~Y. Did l,e indirat(l to ron that lH~want(>dJo·ttli'1'hin·hisi:

win:,..>'3 r .' '.' '. . ..... . . ..... . :, ''-':,;:-:/'. Commander :;\frr,u:n. ('(Ortaln}" there. is 'fln indicution thllthe' wants' .....

to t·nrn in his \ .... ln~ \1.: he\io\"S1)7t'''fmt-t~:-fiyn.nj'inol~ •. , '. ..•. . .); . '. '-:.' :\f 1', 'rO()f~"lf;-r. You lH(>llt-ionf'd eadler' tJUlt YOll' groun~e(l liun l\n<l-· .:;,

lH'gan a('tions to l'(1-'\"olw hi$ "~in~rs. 1Yns this nt youl,' inSt:jgatio~}.'.or '"as ".' it as II l't'sult of his st·ateH\t'nt to' ),Ot1 th~tt 1:icdidlt't,\"ant'~t.o'f1~7'.nny;·/-HlOl'(' ? - . , " .. _. . ;

('onHn:mt leI" :\-1 TN.l-:n. I d ireetcd'1lim to sti1.l't the 'pl:oceedihgs- with n,' ',- -TdtC'l'. Hi> has to wl'ii~th(>,leUel'. . ,.- \ '. J~"' . .... .. '. "', ..."',. '

~[r. "~nm$l~Y. I SN,~. Bt-ingon flight shitlls.6.sn;~pi1ot;jsn·\~ohihtti& ' •. pn:;:ition in th(~.Sa\·:-·; is if. not.'! . , ... ,' •....... ,:',>_ .~:( .•. </;

('nmllllllHl<'I' JI,,,um. YC's; YOn mmminifhrlk?'Tcf1t,ointo'iIYillg'is;.: ('('I'tninly\-olt111tnry; yc>s. Once rOUul'e d~signatedn\'intor,YQu'doitt:> Ih HS and wiH>n \;011 d(>~ire: Ito. ". .' . : .... .:- ." .. ": .....

')f1'; W"n()L~!'~"": Bttt if von wrtnt.-to\ V01.1Can f!o mltOy--t.lle flight stn.ttlS a Hd tHrn in ,w.ml' \t'ill?,."St Tt is ~'()m' OVtlOfi'to do so; is it not:? ,. .

Cmmnandel' )'fn.l.J-:n. Yes., }fl'. 'YOOVtT';Y' In the bi'idin:r for the nrstQnang' Lung sf:rik~;w'ns :

tilt' I'(IN)lIJwi~Sfl.tl(·(~ tliri:'raft f7) an'h'c at the. fieldbeiore,'nt t.he 'fiurne :... tinH'. or after thr ('seoft nil'(·ra.~(t? . .

Commrtndel' )In,LER. Before. nnAdidso. . . :\f 1'. 'V·OOl,SFX.\Vas tlWl'<': inClud<>.{l in t.hathci{'nng a tin1e at. which .

Hit, (';.;eort ~l i r('r~ ft \\'(>1'(' to be rolling ill on the tn.r~ret? ..' ('omn-mmh'i":'lu.u:n. Xot that I TN.'all, iYe nrc talking of almostn

yea!' tl.J!O nnw. :\0 aetnal t.im€'. no: we IHld till1ens to be ill position whell tll(> plwto ~1 iI'el'ft ft. h:Hl to he Uf'l'05S t-h~ fit'l(l. . '"

.\fl'. \\\iOl,<';z.:\'. 1f1mt \\'et'P th(l ('SCOtt nlreraft to do at that positi011 if tlH'n~ was no lil'in~ 01' ~H'tinlfioTl or radar at the site of the Rem? ..

C('.mm~md{'): ),( H.u:n. Th{'\' \~('.l·('" to l'~tll'C. :H f', 'Y()OU;l-~Y. On th~' ~('t'ond Quall:,rLnllg- raid. did yon attend th~lt

iw'!{·fm,!! OJ' }I(':l r it on'!' cloSC'd·(·ircuit t(·lf'yiRioll ? ('orn:iuwdpI' '.Jfiu.!·:r:. T did nnt attclld that briefing find I don't

!\'/'!t 11 w/tdlter r wntf"lwd it clltil'dy O\·(~t· O}('!- TV circuit bdefing at'not, )ir.\y(loJ,';,·;y .. \1'(> you famiJinr with t.hnt mi::sio-n? - .Ab:.: ~"'~ .•• ('onmwndi'l' :l-f TI,Lt:l~, Y(ls: Tam fmnHi:u' with it. "vet ~ :,\h', \\·ni~Lq:y. Hm'O: did \',)\1 h('c'mnl'; f!unillnf 'i\'it.h it'! (':'HHH:md{,\' ~.r n.u,:n. I·'rom pilot. ddwf('fs. rt.'(~mls{.t·nctjonof what.

!~i!ltP('IH:d. I lnOll;ton:d sonw of it from t;le ship over om' rmlk).


422

Mr. "r OOLSEY. lIn. ye ~'OU :reviewed it in tlle Instcoupleof days r " COtll1ll:mdel' )Ilu,Im. The mission itSelf? . .. . .Mr. \Y OOf.SEY. Yes. . . Comm.andct' .lI1LLER. You mean other than talk with I,oople that

were on It? . . '. '. lir. "\VOOJ.sEY. In anyway. . . Commander l\-fu~rJER. Only by COnYcrsatlOn.·· ..•.... ' , ... :~, .:-" J\f 1', \VO()LSI~r •. 1Vlia:twas the position; t;()'theJJestof yoar .kno,,-:leq~; .

of the reconnaissance· aircraft on· thatmissionaga;i*~t:Quang.:.1r;ang· airfield~· Did it a.rrhre -at t.he fieldbe.f6retheescort~aircraJt;at·the

.,.,....... .. ~'Sttm~ t.ime or a.fted .. . .. " .': .'" ........ >'>~' C-omma:lderMtLLER. ApparenHy jt was at.the..sa~e·timeor:;ft:ft~i·,

,:';

bc'en use· the.. pictures wero a.iter t·1H:~ aircraJthad:strU(~k. the:.nirfi¢}c}. :i\fr.1VooLsEY.lfitarrive(i . at thea:irfield~ia:fterthe a.idlenl',;;.it.'J· ..

~truck, .wouldanyfirin~ ... w .. 11iclro.cet1r~d'.~f~r~~t1~~t~!~~:n,ir~r~ft;I'o.)!~:~1 .. ,.:,. '. m. on the'target have .. ooen·ngnmst; .tJIO~: ·strl'lf#s!~l'rcr;aft'l·\;·;~.': ,~.;;',:.' ..

C?mmander ·}II~n.Yes~ .. Iiw~> .n1:~;:t~.~k.~~;;',~ipi~~gf:&~r~;;;l'~~ r~~'~';:' . tnlkmg.~1 matter. ofsecondS~l\fr •. }VoolS¢y,;:nQ.t:pll,!?,~;'Pl!'~ny~,way.~';i)r:()l.l . Cft Ii . take anentii-e :&:t;rike'()ver,; even/a{iqajoh:l:~fgt;ti;~\1t:i.]arge<s~~~~e·

. . ;,,-.

fOlt;, ~~I:E~]1~1~Jft~··:2tf~g~:i1!i~~WJ~lt~~~~~;iIh· strike n.ir{,l'ait begin to rollin or<!-ino.ril~:~;,~::~·,,<:~;~~9·:~:':,>{. . . f"

C-om mand€' r' Mn.J,Elt. TwototJireemdes.' . .'.~:::: .... ' • ..........: ~h' " tV' oot~~EY. "r as 'the' briefing, . to your;~kntJwled~gi:vel\ jtisnch

away. thntthere was a pJanned tiniefor:·tIie st;rikeliirc~ftt() l~gih to 1'On in"? .. ."' .....•... ~ .. '; ..•..... ,,,.' ...... ' ... . .....•...

CommandN' 1\-rn;I~R. I did not attend the b~efillg;Tcan't.tU1Swel; that. questiOli. '. ". .' ... • .. ';" : '·.0 :....:

~r-r. \YooM3EY, On the mission tntl t JJi en fuimnt Graepper j:eIuserlto go on, did yoilattend or see tnathtiefi.n~(~'VereloSed~circuit £~:')vii3iOl~~'

Commander MrtLER. I gft.\"e t.hat~bnefiilg: ... .... . ... ' ........ ' ... ; , . ". .:. Mr. v\r oor..C;F.,Y.You. gare that.briefirlg. T:hatw-fJ,sa;£tet·the·ser.Qnd.

Qmmg Lang-strike? ..... .' . ... ..... ' . '. . .... f'ommander lfn.um. That is correct., . '. . .. ... .. .. ;;.. ..•.. .... ' ..' Mr. WOOLSEY. On that strike,wllSthe l"eCOllriai~n~:.aircraftto'·at~,

rive" nt the airfield before, at the: same time; oraftertlie:;strikeairctliftq· Commander }iILLER. Before. Thet.actiC$on.the~BeCond.Quang:Liin-g .'

wer-e dict.au.d 'by what we had' learned, on tnefirstone./When:yori. knO\\· eXflct.lv where the .defenses llI't?,thatcausesthe ehtiri~hi·taCtiCs. So you position your flight better and know whnt has to dolf theY~'are attacked. . ' . . ..~.'

Mr. ,,\VOOUlEY, The first Quang Lang strike: was approiimately whpn? .

Commanderl:frr,um. It WRS in DE'.cember. Mr. ,\VOOTEEY. About when in Decembed Commander lflT-LEn. Sixteenth or seventeentl1; it seems to ille~ Mr. \VOOL.'>EY. Befure Proud Deep~ " Commander Ivlrt.LER. Before ProudDeep,yes,-~ir •. ' Mr. WOOLSEY •. And the second Quang Lang stlikewaswh~n? Commander 'MILLER. JillIuary-I am not 'sure of theenet dates;. ~fr. WOOLSEY. So it was after Prol1dDMP , ". ....... .


,.,-

, ..

423

Commander MILLER. After Proud Deep. I am not sUl'enooutt,hllt; I don't, w~mt ·to go ollthe l'ccordto sny that. I nn ve not l"tiv}e""ed the da,te.<;, flnd .I am not sure \vhethel' Q!hmg Lnng 2 WitS oofo~:'()r after l)mud Deep. I am not cel:tain. . . '. . . . .

:\f£'. 'VOOLSHY. \V itS Qu.ang La.ng Airfield struck during Proud Deep? Comnumde.r MlJ.LI~n. N(,z n:bsolntely not. '. , .. ){l'. \V'OOLSEY. Mr. Chmrman, I have no further questIOlls at t1ns

time. . {Discussionoff the record.)

. ;,


''i:':

~~~ ,'.,'..~~

~_.;;1'. ' ...... ,

II ;~:;;

~} ;?,~-

,424

, ~('uutnl' S:uITn. ('nHIlH:tlult'I', did JOllSity YOH \\~cnt jutnthe. Nil\'y;hl W;,F1~.

CommnlHI{'j" lfu,u:u. \\~. St'nntoJ',·. ., ~l~1ltltf)r S:mTJI. Ho\\' did you go into tIle Nn"Y~ byeniisttnent.~'Or

by-~ . " .' ... . .. , "\,... . ..... ComnumdN' :\frLf,I·:t~. y\~;:;. SelUttOl'; 1: w{~ntinto,t.4~ NAVCAD:.pro-

ttmm. afh'J' ~:';C::\l'g of e()ll~f.!~~fl'Qm<the Unh·i:~rsitybf'Dchi'\;il.rc~;TheJ\ {fini;lwd coll(,t!0. tlwl'{' on""""''''- . .' .


I ~l'llarO!' S.HITH. "-'It'1l (lid \'O\tI"II/lU' tllto1'Yashilwtonthis time? ('OlllllIHU<iPt :\I,:,u;H. I :llTln'd ':'loudaYlli; .. !ilt. I"" .

.:-\(,llatol' ~.\U'l"., \\'('.n· V<HI (·;dlt·d 111! . ConmltHl(h'i' )111,['1-:11: )\':-;. <j".;...wa~ n w~ll.pnns· dCp'foyment 111

X,·\·:tda-FnnOll, ~{'\'.-~and I waH (::llled ill. St'lllttor ~)[!Tn. FOI' t h iH Ptll't i('lll:tl'h(,lll'in~! COllull.mdel' :HILI.J·:I:.Yl·S~ ',., .. ". S('uator S':\l nu. '''Itt'lt (lid you kllOW nhmn: tilt' Grooppl.'.l' lett.(}l··~· .', ;.'" ('onmmn(!('}" ,:\fll.u:n. On )[()nd:t)', ahOltt-I <UllSOl'J'J'; 1 at·J.·i\o(>d

Tm·sday night. :\ly apolog-ie!:>. . . 1 found ')Ht .:\IOlldu y a ft('I'IH)f!li ithont ;~ q\doek. S(·llatm'S\tl'f1l. )' (}ulJ:lcl not liwr,\"1t UbiJlltit b('fol"e? COlnltl,lw,kl' .:\hi;Lt:l{, :\('),. Idi<tllot. 1 It'~n'lled Ot it, 'its (>:'\iRt{>nce,~

~rolld:}y aft(~I'll~}(Hl at ;{ o'{'loekand 1 tlt'l'iVl'd hm'e rfuesdny ('vcningat 90'df)('k, . ' .

S,'llattw ~:hrl'w. Yun l~nl'lH.'d ,lbout it ft'Ol:' th~ D~'1?lwt-nwnt. h\m~! (tn!Il~!:!!lI.kj: .\J u.I.l-:n. ); n. I learlled ~ibollt It from ]JleHh~Ullllt, (jg.)

Helsehncl\ Ill' b m~' squadron ail' illtcmgl~n('t! OtTiCC:ll'. St· HatcH' :":;\1 l.'ni. Did l:Ji\mtt'mUlt:l\-I()or('corn('·in\\,it.lrv(Wi·~ CmlHllaud(,l" :\I 11,1.1-:1(. 'SO; I.it·nh'wlnt :\fool'l'cnme in fl·Ol.nFlilrid~t, bcnatol' :-:-i)fl'nl. ~\lHl fOn hudn't talkNlto LientemmtM60l'(~or

Li"lItt>IH;llt (1 nWPlwt" lip t~)-,thut tinl("? .'. . .' . ('mHlllH1H!t·}' )111.U:I;. ~o~ and I hal,'('n't, tnlkfHl to Lieut<>n:mt {hof'p-

pel' at all. '. . . . . ~{'IlHfo:' S~IlTIf. Did JOU :-'1'0 to thcP!'ntugoJ! with Lieutenant l\loorc

~o i't'(' th{' Saint.' IH'opk' hC' {lid. ~ . . ..... '. />\. COlUlllltndel' Jhu.rm. r \,'cnt with him t.lw ~amc d:iy.I did mMtAd;.

miml Moorel' and I Hwt.:lfr. BUl':hal'Clt n~l'Y bridly, hot.hof them. I was not with Lieut(>JHHlr lfoore in()~toit[m t.im~~. • , . .

Sl'Hator SlUTH, You didn~t.£~(>e Admiral Znmwnld ('oH\lIwndet'lhu.l-:r:.I di;l notseH .Admiral ZllnHv'ult.

. Sl'11atOl" S:'\[)'l'H. Thank you, :i\Ir-. C!wit'muli. That lR nn ,£01' tIm I }I'( 'St' i1 t.. . "

The CIIAUC\I,\-:-;, Thank yon;SemltOl' Smith. ( I )is('u:.:sion oj-}' there(>oJ'd.) . SC'natol' S:'In'l'H. :\JI'. Ch:lirnmn! f'ighttherc, you .trestil1attachcd to

th(~ Cow;te//ati&lI; tUt'll'tvOU? .

COrl1!wmdel' )fH,LEn. "~(>. arc assi:rncd to the C01If{tr~ll(ltio1J.;Nfy hn~ iH(~di:lt<!. S>lilwriol' is the conmw,nder of t.hcAir 'Wiug 9 and our air ,,\'ill;(£ il' nssi:rned to tlw COli:della-lion. }fy Chll.lnOI command doos run tlmHlg-ll tlw ('oum)allding nUke!' of t·he CO'I'tldellation.

SI,'llatm' f:\)UTH. 1£ Lient{~n:mt ~fO(H'(~ st.ilI with--CnIllf!laH<i<'t' :\fILLF.J:, 'Xn; Lirut(~nant Mocm:. left oursquadl'OIl it

1 itt\" 0\'('1' :t llHJ1!t It fl,!!O and repfHted fOR t!'llinillg Stluadron ill.TMkson~ \'ilk,. Ffa.

0071.'

LaVelle Appendix 00903

426

~et~~tor ~~HTH. M~. Chlljl'm:li!~ I ~}linksor.n~eulp~)a.§is~h~uld.be-P#t.> on t!us mn.tte!'of optwn of tnrnmg m the wlngs,:beCa:m;eI;hti.ve,l1~n:ftl. outsIde that It. wn .. ~ not j:!t>llerallv known tbat: a.::mtin:~uld,ti:ii-nJlhf ,," win::,..-s in OY' had option as t.o wiwther he'wo'llafJvwhen'!ie,wti'D.ted~to , 01' Hot. , ,',' ',." ',,'~ ',',".:' "",,<::;;,,~,,!> '

,The CH.\l~~'f.\X. Yes: put that. hi the:forn1~of/a'qi!~io}l M<l\nsl?' l!lnj to (~Xphtlll. .'.." ,: .. '~". :" .. ~'.- '<'::i:;::,.~.:.\: .!:.'~:~. ~.: .

Senat~H'S:lUTrL 'Vonld yottgh~e llssomet:hiilgollthat.'t, ", ,,",;t,~; COrtllllancil'r Mru:.l:R. Yon,h.un~~thel-e:iireJ,,,;():,o,rtli:1:eewaysyOtl,~aJ.i,~'

lose your wi rigs. FormedieaJ 'rel'lsous,· 'vou:;~can:~:loSri:,y(jur wingaj;:f(ir: ,,', c.x:unple as <'i r~ult. of yonre.\·(>sjght~, ~Ii~thiscaseyo\~~restiUt!;llpw~~:" to weal' your wmgs. If :'ioulos{' vonI' Sight yoncan-weai,":yout" \Vmgs~':;;:'

Yon ha,'e a hoard. If.Mr, Groepper'didnot-voluntarily tUrn:his . 'vin.:..,? in, 11e probably wou:1d han~ had t?j~oin., ficl~~';o!fl, ~ati:di,f:': posItIOn. board,~:[l'. Groepper lost the rlght·~.~efj,rJus:;wnt.g&~;:~:he'· ri~ht to we:ar' them was revoked~.·He,ha,d,th6'optioNto.termjnafk·,hiS" ,'. own fly i nl! 0'1' under, those' d ['CtuuStances, they, wouldhay~:" Me'ti::':;,,' tN'rninated for him. " ,

&-,nat.()r.'S~{iTn. And tliisis't-\;gitTiltion'r""""""""" '.1'<

Commander ~fIU:'F.R. Yes. . ... , '. ..'.' &~nfitor S~nTn. Thank you, Mr. ,Chairi11a:n.; The CHAm~fAN. Thankvou.· .. So as I nudel'staud~ now; wlwnht> tnl'iledin the ",1 ngs, that was under

opem,t imlal pi'ocf'dm'e-.if n lnl1n decides todotllat? . . .' . .,' COHHntmd('f' ~1 U,Ll-~lt. Y (>R. S; I': The CnMInIAN. Otherwise, 'you say he \"onldhave,: to han~ gori:~'

hcfOl:(~ It board? .,. ..' '" .' Conunand('r MH,Ly,Il.Y('s,sit~:Ijewouldlia,v(,.. ,..,' .. ' ,.<. .

The en ,\1R){AN, Thank you "Cl'Y muck I think you should have an, opportunit.y to l'Nldthis letter :that came from LioutenantGrQePper;' You elt.n J!lance thronghthnt. ,., " ' .,,' ;:,

L<>t, \1\(' lHHk(' this announeem<"nLl1ow,: .... '... . .." ." Adm!rall\{oorer, yon rem('ml)(+we, had,bim-·,we.a~kcdhim,to:com~;

in. at: l('a~t. on this matter of th~, brimbiilg6yerh;t,the·;'s<rcitned,Jfa.yY;~" terl'ito!'v, the, LaveHemnttN'; He was scnedilJed"and' w8,'deferre<ritiL ··,

X ow lie' hus to $to to N .A1'O. 1V' e, n re ',trying,to, acComnifJdat~hiill;and'::' h\, i~~ianrlil1g by now. \Ve wiJ] cnllhim in ifit,isagrooable,assOOIl'> us w(' finish with t,he lieiltenant. '" '.,.' ;

I wnntedto announ~(' that no,,,, '. ' Thtlt 'I,\'tlS just for your informntioI1~ Commander.; and it is hero it

you W;].:nt to refer to it. . , . . Comri:~nd(':r l\fn,LF!!t. Thank von. .',

The CH,\m~rA!'l'. Senator" Hn~hes? Sen~tol' l-Tt'GIfEH. C{)mm~Ulder. I itpOJOgizc for being it 1it.t1e'lat.e •. I

\\'~\~~ ti{'d up ,')11 another appr.-lntmf'nt Hnd I-couldn't get here .. W'mlld Y(IH ~tnt{· fOI'me. first.-you say you 11eardat 3 p.m. Mondn.y,

aft·I'I'UOO:l of the lettel' of .Mr. Grooppcr to tIle chairman ~ .' C-ommandor MUsLIm. "'{('s. I did. 001'1'.: ;";enat-o," IIna>1-:;:;, ,,\Vho informed YOtt of that 1 .. . . V ('iJmm~J;nd(~r~l!l.Llm. I wi1l run ~thrt)ugh the whole sequence ifyCtti

would Hk'.·. . . SpnatQr Ih'{Ha:s. 1rould YOH p)('ase lead me up toit 1 .


'-,':' .

, -:"~ .. ,.;, -'-

('()f,Hu~:Ul(I~~' :\1. H.LEU •• Y {os, ~i!" 1 wn,s itt ~t brlcnngjn FnnOllt:cNev:~.; my .. tn' mtela~:nc(' ofltCt'~·' l .. Wuteuant (jg.) nelschner~'cnihe::t.o, dlH'mi7 tl~~~ !~let~~!n1! aud sa td .. I hun"! to talk toyou. ....'; :'

I s~ud ~'F me,' . . " .. c.. •

'lYe w{·nt· outside H,od he told m<.~. ~h:. Groop~r·hftdc8.HP.dhim·:4n, ... the phOllC--I assume 1t wns It ('omtes,- eaHIx'cause' the,,' are'friendS and<; 1 mn sar('. tlw,v at~ !:'till frhmd~<;''l~~lng hehad written a]ettertoSeli:~:' . Mol' St-eHHis t.hat a )f:'. 1VoofS{>y had '\"isited him~ had:ftolh'i.6uttillol:i' n'~'e!pt of the lettC'l" ,,>isited.1Ir'. Gl"Ocppel' llud during dIe couiSeofth:~k COll\'crsat ion hI." lwd mentioned Li<!uten~\Ut l{oore ·srtnd.Liettt.enarit. (j~_) BdS('.hner's names. . . ',,'

Li(~uts.:mallt (jg.) Bt-lsdmN' informed me; I immediaoo)y told my ai!' wing (~{)n'tt'fHmdN'-I told hhn what '(. thought I sbould do. T called . tl~e commanding oflicer of the C(J'Ji8tellatio-n, Cnt>tain 'Vtly;d..J~a~~e(l>~:.;.;;L" hun ~md told hun whnt had happened. Aft.er that; tcalle.dtll~c}il~f .' /:~<:.;::,: of stutf for the Commnnder;N~Ynl . .AirForces'.P8.Qifie,:Flook~I::told.~~;:·>};.:::.:::~r.· h;m 1\1\<1 I said unless Inma<ldsed'otherwise IilrrH:~oing:tOCall:CNO'.'~::~:, ;:c~:.<){' dut y ea pta in. in tVashingtou. Thn:t. is hO\~ the inf()rmati(jlt,~ gQtj:iJ:>acik.~::':.<,.;:'·-.:,>: to iY"ashil1gton . .1 cnlledt.he CNO duty captaill>tha~'~veiy>aJ~l~odlf:>' .' and informed him what I knew.. .... .,'. : '.~::'>:"'; .;, .'

~enator HUGIIES. 'Vhen were you. ordc.red t~ lVnshihgtoht .. ::;,\:;;"L::,~.·>' . { 'ommander ~bLL,&R. The next-moi'nillg~ ef«'l'lJT~apl}a.rtuitlV..the actioii ,'.' .

wcnt to the Inspcqtol" Genei'lll. Vice Admiral ,Tolri¥!tQn.lfe;::¢~11~d.,m0;'. . tIl(' w>.xt. m017l.!!lgnnd jt;st. talked to !ue, had me re.lat~eiltct!Y;1,Vha~.I .. had told the Cf\lef t)£ Naval Operntlons Duty CapttUn,whlcli.~I'dld~. H~' tnlkNI t.o llr. Bdschllcr.Iiel'clatedhisstory nndlhatwasall. We \\~>i1t. f'H: I w('ut ilying. I got b!lck f~m a flight. I was told:by·mY·l1itWirlg- eornmancler wllfJ ha.d receIved the message, thfl..tIwns~tocome t.o T,Val';hington that aft.ernoon . .I got here at 90'cl6ckthnt night. . .... .

:-:pnatl)r :HUOllES. Did 'you meet with anyone tbat night?' . , ('Ollunn nder l:fILU':n. No, sir; ldid not·, ',:. .•... '. . .' 'if Senntor lIuGHES. _"-.nd t.he next day; you .went,t,O~:.'the·:PCl1tagon~ ..

'\\r ould you describe for me-\Thut w~s it,::.usta rou,tineil1tro41.i~t~Q1L· , to. \dm.iral Moored ." . ...., .. ; .. , . '.' ..... ::.~ .. ,-';,.:·.;):i::.::,:';\' •

Commander MU.LEn:. Y CS;. Ihnd no ronve.rsationwitltllhlr'\",hatso:..\· . (,\'('1>, In f~ll?t, he had a few words with Lieutenant Moorewho:hnd~ I?/ . think. met him the davbefore. Lwas just inn, group ofpeolJ1e n.rid/~~sn:t': tiwn'. The guidance. the chairm::m said, when you are caUed uphefOl:"" th{, {~ommjtte('., he said tdJ it flS it is. That is all he Said. . /. .

Since t.hen, rnv time has been sp('nt in the Annex in BuPers tI"..;,t'(' rnost of the time with my deta,il(';~ trying to get my ord~rs.· dHmj "ed.

S('Jlat.or HUGHES, Did you see LIeutenant Moore last mght n:fte r he t i.~st i npd ?

{'oi1uwmdel' lfll,LER. Yes~ I did. lfc ilte Iidng in the same m6tel. y~'{~ btl!. dinJH'!l' tOt!ct.!wr. .

:::;:(',w.tnr Ih:mn:;;;, Did Yon an ov('r tlw testimonv of vesterdav with .. -0-' ... "'"

him~ Cm.nmmd€'l' :'hLMJt. Y (·s: \l,'e trdked about it. S'·niltot· HF(;~H~". Could \'ou-I am ;;orr;\!, ngain~ that I wllBn'thl!re-:

hnl f rnift::;{'(l fnnner Lient,~n:lnt, fTl'()(>PPf'l"'S tir:::"t. ,"isit to you about his rdl~l·ttl~n(:(' tl)fiy mi;:;l51ons in Yi(>tnam--('{)uld you dE'scribe that t<>me ~~~'H nt. fn'li>l1yf

~:: .... , .

'~.;.

',.-~, "' ..

;./.:"::.

~f.: .. ~. ~ "

. :"') :/"·~·'I


( ',tUHIl:UH {\'l' .\r H.U:U. Y I'~, ~i 1': if w;"o.:: ill'- 1 ~;'t·.no\\' it,·w:L.~;ihJ,lt{ . • TanH;!ry. 1 rhC)l!~hf it \\"a~ F(·hfuary. Ht· ~"tld. htt('.lfd\ll~h~·jn-.hh; h"t!'·i'. . --;":-_~. ,~_,;- . . I \\"H .... lw!(·till~ few,. tlight;. ·f01' aat.tlwi· l'l\id on'77;·Jf-tMnit(~..nf~ib~:1~ljS:'

:>lflU 1m (JU:tll~ r ... w~.It. would hun· hl.'l!u tlwthjrdmtf..~-n{'\vtt$ilS:-i;:llt'd :1:-: 111,\' \"'itt;! mall. \\W,. tn'h·fNl ;lhf}nt2-d~lVS ;.h\rh ... ·ll(~\~i~t:stliil nll.\·1 hiu:U'. f had Un iHklingwhat~)(·\'{·l·thnt. :tm'ihin~-.:wnJ.i";~n~~;

ThNl Itt, i'tUtU' to ml~ (}JW niu'ht. TIt(' ":lids ~-\\~N,('; t"iulC'(>leil rlt'le--;to Wt'arJwl' and W(' \\'('ut on tn {}m·~lt(·J'lHlt(·mi~i6il:. \' .. hii·h\v'ajodli~;~tr.~ .1 i H'i": -':"':uu~' a I Jlwt JUi~'Si()n \w. would h:\ v¢ J)(>Nli£<~ii~ t~toi:l::' ~'~~~')tto th~ lHdwtd rf \\-,._ hud not eOll\<' ,n\(lcr·utta(·k~:we-\"'()nr.lll;\\·("'dls(·rft~d tht"rt· a lH I i ( t I U' w("nt h<' 1" had '}Wi>u bn-d \v }l{:'ll" \'"'t.gnt'tlli~j·(~(H' SOhl~t Hiti p: imd~nH{~ \\'rnn:.n·lll'~lIte. . .'. .' -. .... ..... '.';: ,>'.. "

IJt'~aid lit'> did not wnnttogt)ou tlw$e' nli$Sionsh{'{~lHl~l~ betJ\o\\ght tlwy Wt'l'(' d(<(·(.·itful. .ltlid notn:rr{'{'> witIiJilnt.· r'r''-Rp('{~tNrJ'i~:;f¢~n~gs; .\ HI ~nid wn~ J (lOti' thinkth~rf.~istnl\::de~~it. hi,~oh·(~(lf-.t-1lci'\Utr(i/ex~ . t "()llu,J J~ im porhmt that \,>(. go. ''" (tl\l'(ih hidh,g]t~·.:tlu!.,~:ul~~~ib~{l~,#k:fri~~~· 1 t h i H k ~d(·t n(nl(>-Nm(~ .to·tJie· ru I(-S )\·it~l{)llf,~lh~~quM.tioll;';}.ft,\S:ii~tJl(~ . r ,H.i lint wlmt t.o f,'!O on thc.>u1. ....- ....-:;' .·:·, .. ·:,:;·,;-:::~·.:j~/:·:S.;;,L· ..... .

TJ, i~'m~ hisfil'st,('J'\l i~::: Jl{~·.·J,~ul.n~ye1" l)ecii jhto ,the"jiQrtlr;pef~re" .' at alt.. 'l\'\'('r,nt:ftlHn..-,l he,!!ont'totl1<' .toHI1.:· .... ',_;.,'«.'~::':?-;~::"::;'-;<:(.'

St'lUthw H nHn;~. I nPi'(md ·Dce{}.ditln :t·llego ·t{} t11e~ri()1.~ltt.~ . >::'::

1 t\:~~ll~.ni~;l~~t:~I,;f!~:Tf~:~; flr;l:;;;~t'~l~~\ilii~~~';f]~t~::f(~~-;>R~~~~~J~~i ' . tIlt' bench .. \'1l f~tr~~t:;·-yQlt hu,-a.t.? Jook Ittr~tt,t1 rMePy~l-y .. ~~reful1y to nndm-stnm\ Proud, J>eep--nll t~w~t.swel'cc()nstn};.p.Olltts:,llncl·l(j.ts of tim('~ tIlt'" w('rednne O\·ernn.(h"e.rctlSt.~i\n<1nlQst,,()-tt1le:f.ime:::rih·(·ra·ft· did. HOt' ('nml'eneh the. c-onst-1inc" Th'~rc:we~ tI'an5iiil)m~ht;point,s-, lIl(l~tly ri,!!hhm fhe \witch.' ......-.. ..... " .. ~;::,_ ..j;<., ...... <..::.:!:,-.\,,~;,;, S~nMm' ~'J e~mr,.~. E-xcuse tbe m~~mtp.tlp!».',9<r:tllt(>ft(!,~;I{1~.t~lm~liy

Yl'st(,T',lny llHhl'~,(.,:d that he Inul·.gone t~F,tbe uQrth· m ~l7O~d DC~Jl. Tlmt is wl\\' I ~lskl'd. . ',' .. .' , .-, .

( '()mHlaJl~ll'l' lfu.u:n.yes.· fhere·~·el~6:~6iClsfir{N()rt]i. Yi('bllihl~I· ntH ~mTY. .' . .... ." .' '. " >... . ....:.. ' .. :.. . ...

. Qitit(", ont- of.t·he o rdintl t:\' from. :r~;hutdnrd strike iijtriNolih\Vjet~ Will). just. tt \\'1\ol€' ditTereiltem}cr.pt,.,mtnething wedidn~t,.,:...-..... •• \\ .....

8(1nntor~:ktl\n:.tKF.R" lVlmt. \Vastlult? .' .. ' . C'ommrmd{>r )fn.r.r.r:. Th('o wnv the,~ w·<:'l'eeonfltlrted. . ·0'.0<7··.·7'.·,.7 ... Jif' ~lmntor SCIIWI:ftUm. 'Vllie}) 'ones? v ('omm~!}(t~t· :\IlJ,u:r~. The Pmud Deep ones. That was som~t,hing

di!T~'rt>nt. . Iht ht~ !5:dd hI:' thon:.rht th(>" W~l'C deceitful :mdh(>{lidnotwont to

!!,O on t Iv:m. . . . . - :.: .•••.. .'. ·(s~id. --nre[!:!. I am {!oinf,r to keep yon on' tllis. schcdul~~ 'I'saicI~ '''You ktiep fJyinu nnl(':'\,"} YOH l'('fmre t-O ~t into an airplane}' ... , .•.......... . ~o h(~ was S(:l:<,<111iC'd npain. "~f' would nOMnIlU:rgef,np tbereand \Hst st:1:rt tlH~ hn~f ~ Wti had at'('t'-",~~ to some wen.tllerphotography,al\4 till' hrif'f wmthl hl' {'atw(>led. It would he just at thest.art()rb1\lfwti~· thl'Hug-h. SmuptilMs Wt' flt>\>N" ('.\'('n t..'Ot started fii) }if:> was mr\~er.pl.ltto rh{' task ns to whetlwr he -would Itct in thenh:plane tlnclgo or riOt; That i.1:ns tll('- 11naI Hutcome ofthnt.We- leftYnnkoo -Stat.iona! tl1at· tinw to ~o t('r--"f(>tllrTI home. We inwndedto return home. .


;-\"Il:lhW ~('It\n~lhr,ll. To .J:lpnn! ( 'ollluJawif'1' ~i!l.t.I-:I~. "'t' .':UI\{' h;wk dH'H. ~i'l;nh}l' j hmn:)o<. ,rill YOII te·l! lilt' whnt tllt' nlll(·~ of EUiy:vN.'lIwut

!"a id n hout t ht, .)( i.!!~ 011 t ht, !!TOlilid ! .... ,... t- . . .

( '"lmwl wl('I' )1".1.1-:1: • .:\Ii:.,.rs on f h{> :!TOIUH! t On'th~ ,tidl\··ld!; ;-O;('/mtlw lkHlu:l' .. \Il.ndlt'I'{~. on the ~J"O!~nd.uirfieM~}I~lin)~\\·here

(.10:;;(. . . . ..' '.' '.

,. (:OHllll:Wtl •• !, .\In.Llm ... \.~ 'f:ir itS Hltles ofEn~'11gt'n\(mf.wh(~n·~~()l1·~'~.· on ;\ l'(·\·omH\J:;;jl.nn{~f' nnSSlOU. nud. \"fm t'mnl' undl'r atttlck,'dndtau-; tluwi%(·tl ~'(?H to t't>ft.tI.tat<'. \·(~\1ail\fy. yon f:uuhl,attac.·;k.tt lHi! ontlw j!!'numL It is nil ;l !lnilrm·.\' (·omplt,x. of. thnt th('l'('wmiJ.;~.I)(' llodouiJt:; 1'01\ {'{'l't:)illh' ran, ; .... .

St'lwt()t' if ('(:10';l", J)(I you }'(>("nJl tht, Rilles 'of· t':ng:lgNI}(~ht~ . ('()JmlUl1l<h:'r? , .

Cmnmnndt'j·)frLJ.J:i~. DoT? .... '. '., .'. .... ..... Sl'natOt' JTnan:k. Yl,'s:tJl(·Tt'lntionship.'rouwf.t"(·hj'jt'ff'd ()H:thNll '.

80 numy tintl'!{ [- th~mg:h~v(',\'hfipsyO\\ e()\\l(ll'{~(·llntlw,lh\ll-\S\/f-1;:'il~ . . g-:l:,r(·llIl'llt aill)llt :l )hJ.!ll~ It!1Sstntl?<t' '. . '.' '. : .

Commnn<lf'J' )h1;LEII.lfyougonHthe wuybnrkto:\"'hM. the'Rules.of. Elll!n:,r('HH'llt \\'£"I'l' del-i'n'd ft'ont.: the l l resid£"nt:spolicy about. recon-, . n:lissftlH'rmisr-;iollB. I think ifis\'(~IT ele1irthnt.b{'·sllld~.;'rillf,(>nd·to·nv 1'('('onn:\ issalH'(~ mil-,~jmls 0\'('1' th(~,llOl'th. If tJleshttiii:rltft·eom~·'nld~r·· rrthwk. twill rC't:t! iaf(' Il:.rilinst what th~ thl'i'at. is"~-nl\dnls()~:I think,. "lHdllding ltnvthin:ion tliclni1itarvc.o\llple.x.~l' .' ,'.' .. " . '" . ..<.,'

S('nlttor II-cmu:s. Yon n~\~cl"~~{'nrdof the stntC'meIlt. tJintn )lig:illlist he a i rbOl'll(' :nt< 1 ho::ti If' h(>fot·(> it-is flttnc1\('d? .' .... .' • '

('Olllllll1n<!cl')III-I,F:R. TheRtiles.of'Ellg~gement:challge.dai1y,as:rou pmhahlykn()w. . ." '. . '.. .'. '

Senntor Hrmn:.fi. During thnt.p("rjod~ though~ COlrHhitndel'~ that is w IHlt. th~\' \Ye-l't~!' Comm;\nd~r ,Mn;Ll-:n. DUl'in~ thntperiod~ there wer:e cluulges·dRily;

ft hosti1o:1\Iig: elHl be Hftillj! off t.he: rll11"-ny. Af>untor Ih;Gllf)~ . .\.bsolnt(·lv. Comnwn<1PJ' :.\fU,IJr:n. 'fhM is hOstile to m('. ~.'lmttW Hrmu:s.lt 1S hosti1(' to yon when it is on the ground. Tlutt

is not' what I nm savill,!!, I :un :lskina: if \'oneall rc~an; if \'ot\,("t\n~t, tiJ1<', 1 don't w:mt. to' plirsHP that lmy'.;,vay: It is not: tooc1€'ta.iJed. Tam inst \\'(md('~'inl! it in yom' own. 1\\iml;you l't'('ali it-you said from intp1-ligN1C(' that )Iigs W~!'" thC're nIH} they wert" t·h!'re.

C'c)Jlnrt:mt!el' )1 H,u:n, Y PS ~ t.llCV were. . 007111 S('uatOl'lI'GoHF.:S, Did von S('C'thNl1 "-!WU ,\;on madevonr runl COTlUlHtflfl(>1' lIIU,!':fl. I)hoto~·:trhy--- ~ .. f-:\t'natfn' Hcmms. 'Yht'l'e (ltd yon drop your'. ordnance. on tho

!'tlliWav? Conim:mftl'r MUA.En. On tIlC', l·mlW~\V. S{'natm' IT r(Hm~. 'llw \\"as flyinf! yom' win;! that dllY? COHlinmHkr ),fnu-:n. T .. j(~utNHUlt, Kelsey WllS onmy wing.Photogra

phy from nn: ~ti ['(~mft !,<':'!'nlt'd \\'here the lfi~-. the pilOto plane en~e tlH'ou#!h ami III ('xnJH.J1l1ng tiw pl;otos. We locaoodwheroth~.~hgs \\,(,1'(', Tn tIlt' pc·rind hc·t.\\'f'cn the photo plane coming thl'Ollgh.n.ndpho* tOgTltph,v tWIll !In ~\ircraft lnmy division,onr own int~rnnlcftm'eras, tlw ){it! had h{'t'll mowd hack inside 11 (',aye in a mntwr of 10 seconds, 1;/ s(l(·onds.


;:';(,Hutm' H nan:s. 1t HlIIl>i ha \'(. lKl-('n on "- .plt\(,f{wtn UT somethlu'''. ('OlllllHU1d~'1" lfJL1.I-:R. The 1U~s(' of th(', airct'l:!ft wu.s jll.st stjddn1!~o~li, ;~\

of tJJ(> can' w/t(,11 tll(' t"(>('onnuISSiUl(',' went throngh. so the\' had JUst st~u1cd to pnsh it. in. ,. .

S("untor HrmIF.s. You did}l~t get the Mig~ then ~ ('onmmndl'l' ~ItUJID.~oi \\~e did not~ , ... Senator HrouE.."I. Your mteUigent'e that vou weregetthigontheSe

)Iit-.>'Slmd of eOIU'S(', the t('stimony that l'Unstb'rought.heSeh~rings~ would lX' t,hat f del('tedJ~·· .... ..:. . ,.

Commander lIILLER.. Xo, sir; the CQnferonce here"you mean t 1,

Senat.or IIcGTI'Es .. No. '.., . . .. , . .. ', ..... ,', . CommalldC'l' lbu..ER. Yes; Iw'ns awn:roof[defctedlMigs~hti.dbeen

known to \-lO I ate, south of t.he DMZ there during our, time':tli~ro; !tl"Cus that. we could flyon~r 1l0l"lnaHy'without any cOlleeniw~i-erio\v of concern. .

Senator Ht:GIU:S. 'Vas there nlly timethntyou weretliere,i~l,:th,e·, Sout,h Chim\: Sea on the (}ollstellatiiJn,.thatyoll could,:have: tlOwn:·a,· l)hl11{> to QUftl1,!?' Lnng n.il'fi~ld . 'l",ithout.,the ,Fan Song 'radn'r',' being activnt.ed or witllOUt, their being a.ttacked f' :--, , ," " ' ,

C<>mmander Mn.'LER.Tdoubt.it; Ihll.venever:Dee-rrover'N'ortn:'Vict;.

nnS:,~~~~~u~~~I i~:~:et·~o~~lt;'"~!J'~~ir~~~~~~d\~f~~.· haud .. thnt'the niles oi·.eiigagoinciri.",o111d·oo 'met'¥'Y<lultnew.··you.,. conldn ~t fly to'Quang lAing wi~holK,~oining underfi~:.titalH' '."

Commnnoer l\flr.LF.R.Absolutelyno,vay~',.' '., ...... ' ... , .. Senawl'lIuGHRs. Sothl;)11.11esof engngement:wouldbe·~¢~~,: . i.: ' Commander MlLLEn. Thev WQuldbe ~et.However;'theywel'e~tilt

briefed to be adhered to, nndllo iire-I cli'imotr--:--:it ishypotJletiooJto . me to say r.hatthere would be no fire~ I havene;ver bOOl\ m""~rth~ north ill two and a half tours withoJ.ttfire. . . ; ' .. ,. ... .. . ... :. . ' ' ... ',.

Senato!-, HUGHES, That is wha'l-, all the fifershaV8Said;1hat was.w ~lh~Y~'~~~~f there wouldn't bea response, because there~as' .

Commander MILLER.. There wns. Any target tha~ they wooldwnnt to, defend was .. J~oingt{') be'dofe.nded"and,that~~ n. ket~rg~~: ~:: ..... ~>

Scnatot: tlUGRES. The pomt of my questIOn, Comm'andGr.;lsthlS: ~,<::-~ (1) AnY~lm~ yon decided' to bomb Quang Langaj~ne~d,y('u'~et'e,ftee, ;'".';

'!he ~~lt~f~~!;~~~~ ~,\~~~t~a~~(>.~1°~~trcie:i;'j6Wro~~,· r:r:, that from all of your flights o~er: the north ~ . 00' .7· ~~"'4'Jj ~;.:: .

Commander MILLFJ(~ Yes, SIr. . .•.. ' ... f I~ ~"(: ..

Senatofr fHU(l1I}F..81

. Sed~o, that nnl.: tibm~Dthe r. ules of engagen1en. t as a. ~,',?,;.;'.:.,.!:~,: ... (' n:atter 0 act n. ow you to wID· ong Hoi, Quang'Lang or'aIiy lllrfield oocause you htcW the rules of engagement would he :in~t,SO ~~!T,:

1~~;~!~~i~d~~:'l~ ~fu=J~~~J,~O~i~l:a~~t:l·· . ({: Commander Mil..Lr::n. Yes. sir. ' ,,'" Senator HUGHF..s. Bnt the fnet that you preplttnned thesirlke, you ~;r .

knew' in ad 'nmcc that. vou were going to 'be attacked i . . 'i.'. •

Communtil'r )fll,u·:n. Tbnt is basienny true and you would be very itr,,: foolish not, to preplan a strike. . ' . "~"" •

Sen.tor HUGlll'B. Absolurely; I am not arguing that pOin.ht all. I:, Lavelle Appendix 00908

431

ConunaJ~der MIl;u:n. But it s(H~uds like theoretically. we could go tftl~n~ IUtd Jl~SOO. That was t..'.Crtamly not tlteca.se, as you kll0W. . .

~(l.lla~r HYOHt;s. You couldn~t fly a recceplane ~ver that. ~eld without gett~ng It fired n.t audprobahly S~lot dO"'li, 1f you dldn ~t ha V6 EUppl'Ca.'Uon planes nnd enn'ytbing else'

{ 'onmm.nder lhLl.l::R. Abs(,)uteiv correct. St>nator H'COHES~ Or gl"i.~a.t, dnHt!~r Iltl(>lU~t , \'oll1lilunderlfu.J.ER. Right, and aUyour ~~ce~ights wiU pro\·eth!l't. Spnator Ht:GHES. And t.h~ flak suppresslouand Rttaekphuwswlth

it.:w6uldn~t he r A comma Ilder \{'QuId 00 foolisb nottothakesome plan; \\"ouldn't he! .... '.' '. "

Commander )fru.Jm.Exndly right.; once youlmew exactly where !lis doft'uses Wf.!}"(V, thnt: is when ~'on plan to pnt.yourl'etnliatoryfol'l'Xls !n where tht'y_ar:e;so ,YOl.l enn snppl't'ss them. That <:at .. lS&i th~chan~ m titctles between t.he first Quang Lnng 1 and Quang lAng 2; It. would be foolish not fu do that. . .... '. .' .

S("nator H'CGlrFA.. The' point·lam makingdOesllotteInte·toyour.·. duty, your· knowledge, your' briellllganywhereel~;it 9imply. nleilns that. somewllcro; ". if·. anyonewnnt~dtoni~ke.~·a.:~dooisioil·to" bOfupany·.~ nil'~eld during thn"t pel'iodof.time;they·.cbtild:::qo:JtheCa.u~:under .' existing Rules of Engagement there ',\-ilS no dditbtabo\ttyol1r being' uttncked i .... ..... '. '. '.,..' '.;. . .....

Commander Mu.urn.That isttue and iIthe 'needto gn,the"r intelligence was there and the higher' authorities said we want toknow~ what is thel'e~ that would C-l>eate-thtl.twould genern,tethe misSion; ies.

SClHl-tor HUGHES. !tis sort of asilIy: game we are pla.ying to say if:we nre fired nt we will sho9f;, and so on, becil.use you:1rilowthey are going to protect their n.irfiel~s, YOlt know, ~f theyn.re going to fight awar; ahd we know tl1e.y are gomg to attn.clc If t.hey shoot at us. So, as a matter of fn ct. the conditions t.hnt existe.d were ..fnll Wllr conditions on those uirfidds? . "', 1 . . . ' ..

Commander MILLER. Yes; .of courSe, we are talking now about hard, fixed targets. Other areas of re<!onnaissan~ 'whichwe do not do at-aU, the rules wOltid apply v~ry,ver;y thoroughly and you need to have the mles. Rer.:€>nnaissn.nce over a ·roiLdor sometlIirig, now, you-. -' '. S~nat.orHUGlIEB. You cottldn't tly-upthrough the passwithoutheing

fired nt, could .you ~ . . . . .' .. '. . ('ommahdel'}.{n,r:eit. Hugill. PtiSs o~ Senator HuoHES. Yes. . Commander M.u.L'Elt. No, sir. . . Senator HUGnES~ That thing is just lined with triple A; isn't it? Commander l\hLLF.R. From the border over.

0.07773

Senntor HUOlIES. All the way. So, in other wtJrds,that is tmother tn.I~:..t('t. 1Vhenyon made a pass at it yon knt"w the Rul(>S of Engag<>ni(>nt w(':r~ t h{'l'(> ~

C'omnmnderlIu..I,En.Th('; Rules of En,gagemfmt ....... if you wert> bomb-inl! in Ln.OR and W('T(' shot at, you C'outd attack.

Sfnator HUGH1·::s. Across the border~ C(lmmanoor M ILr..En~ 011, yes; that never occurred, to my know ledge. S<>n..'ltor HUGItES. How frequently did you oombthe passY Commander MILLF.R. Either one of the three passes w~re bombed

daily by Navy or Air Force .. Senator HUGUEs. 'What were yourtargetsY


COUlIllMHh'r )J,!.r,Im. lfostly tt·lldi~. stOl"l~e sHpp}h~s.pltt~-t'!S tl~~t . wotll(l:-;top und\\'<tll foe rn:rht.f'aIL'.-"'>·

• ...;[·flatOl' I h-mn-:. ... , POL ~ ('flllUluind~I' :\ht.l.n:. POl ... tll'lIm;;: In fad. tnnks Ofwdav. i".'!wt<w I k(:w~~, Tank:.;!· ~ ( 'nmm:mdpl' II H.um. Six tlllllu;. wn {nuw!. St'n:lttw Hnm,.:~. l>id ~<on ft'('qUi'ntly hit th~tl'l1t'kptlt1~nria tllO

:-;t{)I'H~rt' sHpplil';';! . ... .... .. ... ComHumdt.· .. ) [iLLElt. \\.~~ of ('om'S{>. th('f'(' ni'c nU('(mtrol1ed Jw

fm'\ntr<l nir ('ontrQH('l'S~ Ail' l .... oN·~ 101"\"111"<1' nlf ('Ontl"Olteli.$'iii ·CQ~. o reI i J\ n t ion to<ypt her. .

~ • '·0 ...•

N'nntor HnHn:.~. 'Y(,I~ yon pt'ehl'i('fed onhittmgthose!,..· .....•.... C.on mum der' Jf JJ.r.}::R. There is: 1\ l~nthllcf': invoh'od 8('i~i¢s> of, ('\'('hf~

to ~('trendczyoued with th(~ fOl'\\'1H'll nii' coilh'qll~~; 5\·ifli thein;ie.fhiit~ we knew bt\sir~\nv whel"e we \\;er~ tiohla: '\'·(Jdidn!t:kilo,,:'::,\'·du\f::·wfif{~.:. th('l'{'. . ~ .. '... .' >.. .,"~;'i';:::,:>':::"::.'::;<}:"::~',.::.,

~t'nntOl;'HniHj.~. Hut. flS 800'n as he ¢lvC>. yO\t:tJl¢,t;a:l·g~t~:,;:':;::':,: .. f'ommnn!l{'," i"fn.u:n. And' ,,,ou1<1 mttrk :the.blrt!i~:t:,',{;·:.·';.,: .. »' . Sonator Ht:mrRiol.Did· von have nnE ·1)ourdwitJ,·t!itichart9,oil it;>

as to the tttr~ets ,,-hen YOll fie-n·in the it' ?. . .', . . ... Commnnder )[n.LER. Y cs. sir. ... . . . Senator Ht:=mn::..<:. Tcmu:? yon whel'e thC' hnek pll.l'tswei'e nn<1 tht~

tl·iple. A 1 . . . ('ommnn<1el" lfH.u:n. The ~{'n(Jrnl }U·('IlS. and we knew tdwl"cll.U

tl'ipl(' A and all R\.-·g sit~s :wel'e. . ... ... HcnMor Hrmn:s. Did j:oll.fly snppre~sion plane's with your attack

phmt:!'l? .. . Cmnmnnder MH_LF.R. Not llonnnlly. . Sf']i,ltOI' HF<:ut~H. Not11Ot'mnUy. ·On tilt· b~lSis-Cmnmrmder MIU;'{>:n.As it. got more.flml.1Ilore. imrolyed, more and

m()I'(> moveme,nts, wt', did prot.ect aU our fiireraft with IronHandn.it"~". ern. ft with ru.dinthm-antirndiation. missiles. '

S(,l'ultorHt.:mms. Did you ha,'e YOllr OW11 Iron Hand l>laneSO.Tl th~ ship~ ... .. .... '" . ... . •.. , .• c,' .

Commander JfU.T,F.R. Yes, we·,<1id. They were integral to our flights; . W(" could earrv them in hombs. too; . . .., :, ~ennhw Hi"fnn::s.Yon didli"t have to i'ellfle,wous wit,hother planeR ~ . Commander Mn:.[,ER: No. sir. '. . St'n~tor Hrmn~~. TJum the l'ul<,s of the gnme wf'l"ePOI .. find

ti'U('ks W('t'E" part of the tnrgetR you were nl1o\\-cd to hit? . Commander Mu.um. In Lace. :-;{>nator Hnni}:"~. In T ... no$; Iltirl Nort.hYidnam? C'omlnnn<1(,f l\iIu.lm. Y ('R i \'('1',\' definitely. S{,Hlltor HI,,<Wf;.<:l. Howahollt Nort,h. Vi4:-tnl\m?

007774.

Commander J{tu;m. \V(' never w('nt intfJNnrth Victn!tm :we «ent into Xorth Vi(>tnatn onl." time prior t/) .00,pl'11 16 inthe9~month.el~,is~ . Th:lt WU$iQ1UUl!! IAlJU!' 1. ...

Rl'nMo~ Hrr.IU·:s, Th~ \\'Jl01(> point r ~m trying to mnke isthat'YOli had ()Jl~ IIp;t of tnl';,retg HI T..:w~ \"hllt-Just n. .mnttcr of seconds away· frmn IHlothN' bmnhin:;,r(·l'{',\V·S: igtJmt ri~ht 1 .. . ~

\ommand(>,r l\fHsum. The tnr~~ts rig-ht on the }x1rdprnren.U vm'V clos{~ to th<-ir triple A: hut von wem only nHow<'d to atta~k·th'e triph'.\ if yon \Wl'e nttllt'krd. ~


~~.:. '.' '.,..~ ,',

....... ubA II :_ ",-"'-~;;$;;"'::,

I wouM likl' to Ul:tk\, a l'lH'I,{,(,tioll I ditl ~l)into .x(}rth Vietmiiu dll,.i!l~ tlU' Pmud 1 )i'{'P 0i*rlltlnn. .

:-:f'lI!ttm' ~('HWt:l t~f:U. ,\t fJwm ... JAHI'''? ('mhHllllldpf' :\JlI,U:U. 1 ~:tid (}1I~'t" ;-. .

!"'{'}mtol' ~1·II\n:lKI-:n. You dilln'f answer his (ilt~t.ionn!lOlitl~(}w;1\h()tlt· tl'u~'k~ ,,-jH'tl you wt'!lt. i!:to Xnrt.h \)"te.tmlln~ Olw{'into Quung Lallg: ".;

( OmnHW(!("l" If u.u·:n. I h<-l,(' we·reno t.rucks. ..' ". .; .. St>llntOl' Hcuwf:nn:n, "?l't-e th(!l'e I1n;{t:rtl{:k.~· '., .'; .:',";~. Comma.nd~r :\!n,f,~n. I f t.h~'l"{' W('ro tMicks itrtll~ milittu-ycomplexes',"

on t.lw ti('ld. . ...~,.;

~pnat(w HiW{IJ-:~ • .\m·thin~ in tht' mi1i:tatv compi~.x"s? ...• ........ . ....... . ('ommand(>I' lhu,Jm: An:;t.hing in th(· eoinplexesll.nd the~1Yr,ic1ent .'

\\'n~ \',,!,\, "fl"U l' nbout that. I t.hink. . "./'.. '. .. ... ~;:.: S('tlatclt' IIrGJtFs. ~f\'. Chairman,.I wm~top Jor:ri6w'rtnd:letSenator,

S<'\\weihl" 1!0' '. ..'.,:. " .' . . ,; , Th(> CJUIToux. S~na:tor Sdl'W'eik('r'?' ". ' S~nflt{)r Bc'mn;nom. Th:!nkyOlt) 1ft .. C!lnirn'ln.n.; ('omnmnd("r, ,"ou d(,SC·l"lWd t;ln~e· raIds oft.hlj'o; JUitnre

..

kll~W-Yinh. Qli:mg Ln-n.g 1, and Qunng Ifa.ng 2'7 Command\'l' ~fIU.tF.R. Qlllmg IJnllg 1; yes, SH'. . , .... ',

The- CHAl!'>.:).UX. 'V'e lwve.to ,"otc. ' ( Hl'l~S.'i. ) The On.\HtUAN. An rightrCommander. 00 back~ &mnt.ol' Schw.jkel'. . ~enfltot' ' Scn .... n:.ntER. Thank you, !\fr. Ghairm.rtn.· I will go hack find repent the qllestion I started with. '.' ..:\5 I ulld(>l~t.:md your t<>stimony, youhn,ye, .t.estified that orithe

('U ri'icl' dllt.~· you wm"; It~Rigned to, t.here "'ere threernids of this ty~ Yinh~ Quung- Lang 1 nndQmlng J.A\Jlg 2. Is thatcorroot1

C-omm:tn<1er shu.En.Tha.t is correct. Senator SCnWf.:lKER. There 'VfiS a-nother one scheduJed7 Quang fAng

:1. Tllat 'Wll!'l <"meeled. '\Y118 it ever rescheduled and. eompl('ted, to .your, kno'1-1edcY(,?· ,., '., . ("omm~l1dcr ~[ILUiC.n. NO't from t.he (JoruJtellaticn;no, sir.. ., SeHlltor BClIWEu-a:n. 'Vas it completed from some otllercame'd • Commnnder lin.I,En. I il.on~t know. S<>nntor SCltw.I':I1um. So there wem t.hree raids that we are tn.lking

ailout? Commander }\[u.u::n.Yes, sir. ~Niat()l' SeUWF.1KER. How1Unny planes wentonyourrnidl ( 'onmmnder Mn,r.ER. Quang Lang 1 ~ (YO'V"'.;'''/ . , Senlttor SCHW'ETKF.lt Yes. . " .. ' .. , '~:;'.: COlllmamh'I' lfU.LEH.Approximatdv 12. ,....' ~('nnt()r ~cn'\·}:nu~R. And on this ~eommissl\nre plnne;andyouwere

qlw'tt.ioHed f"~u'li~!·. a-ft('l' it. "US fired on, it swung in a circle.' Dt> I \md(·\'stanrl thnt' It. ('arn(> h:l('k and thl:n got born!.> dn.mnge photoo? .

('onmmn(h,J' :\1 Iff,J,t:R, 'So. :;;ir, -"'('nator :-<:ef(Wrmn:Jf. Yon :,!ot un bomh dl\JJu\ge pllorosi Cmnma!l<i<'f' lhu.I-:R, "'(> hud lromh damage only from cllmem~inro ...

~~Ta I t (p t h(> ~i ri k<" a i r<'t'a ft. . . . ~\'nfitm' St'fI\\·t:mEl~. \YouM th(';l-Y he L'npnhlc of taking mOst of the

bmnh d:mmge or llot :


434

r:omnHmdN' :\hU.ml. -So. sil': tlwy ftl'(' \·()t·~·liHlit,'d in th~irn,ngJp,.Jn· tiwn' U$){'. . ...• '.' ...

""i('lultor SeH\\·tfl{.F:r:. Did ;\'on subsequen.tly get bomb dtimage.phoili;. gl':lphs frmn Inh'r fll~hts? ; ' ....... ' .. : .

( 'ommll.nc1;r :lfu,r.l-:n. I think there was bomb aamagt) [deleted] lat~r-.: .... fill: hut Hot. fml~h·. .. . t·o: .....•..•... " ~,," . . " . - .. -, . ',:.', .

!'\('!uttm· ~CHWl-:m: 1m. X ot. at th(' SIlUl(> tim~ ? . . CommalHi<>r :\fJj,t.1~n. Xi). '.' ; :4~n!ttor S('llWl-mum. Yon said fhe ¥llnkc;ie Station ..... ·· na~· .... ,' ..... n .• ·• ... ·., .. >e·.c ••

from NOl'emb(>l' 1 t.o.June27-Nov('m~'r19'ilt() .. Jltiie Commnnd('l' ;\fn.J.ER~ :Yn.nl~(>,{' Station ht'ing\lpint.he .

0pt;t'Me offSa.i~on for IWriods. Whe-li AnI~· .... '. . ... ...•. . .... > ~(\nat()\· 8eHwlmn~:t. ,\\1mt di(l YnnkeeStation meM? Ianfnot clenr;· .. ('ommamlf'l' ~flJ,J..F.R. Ynnkl'(> Station is atenn that o.PPli('s to n.,pOsi~,

tion. in t.ht' Tonkin Gila. . '. .. .... ':. S ... nator ScnWEIKEIt. 'Yhat 'were t}w eod~ names OfVinh.~, ,~,,,,,,,,,,,

LanJ! 1.:mo Qllan~r.Alng2~ . ..' ...... . Comrnnnder ~-rUJLF.R. 'l'lleywere caH{'d [dt'letedl uiissions. ~('lHl.t.or SCJlWF.lKlm. 'Vlwn did [dt>l{~t(idJ start 1· . ;.', .'. ..... ('ommand(~r MILLEn. I Mn~t answ()r tha.t: I don't know. Iani'su:re·

it hns h{'('H f:onw tim{' Siil('('tht> bornbinf! halt bark in 19fi9".I·'dori~t . know'. " . ,_. ," ,- "r., " .. ;'. '.~ . •

Senator S('HwETKm. OK. Now. 'whatwM the essential difference .. .,; f t'Om t.Il<" [ d{' lewd 1 ope-rat.ion from pl'evioi:s, precHding operattoris~ hasJ('ally'? . .. '-Commandcr;\[Iu~En. Y 01.1 meanin previous yearS ~ .' . ,>' ..'

Senator SCH\VJ.:IKER. Yes; :right.~ In oth<>T words, were. therempl'e armaments, were tlWl'(' mol'<'>- pI niles inv()lved~ W~l'e they more comp.let(! things? . . . . .. '....... ..... • ...• '.

Commander lfn..um. Ih:l.d been Oll one or two'before when olitb:e Ente'i';>rike previously. It JfiS farther sonth .n:ud abSolutely no t.hreat find I think tlleJ'e w(,l'eonly four to six airemft on that. That i~).~eal'S' ago. '. .. .' ..•.

SC'!lntor SCU\\'"EIKF.R. ~() jll .. ~ roughly, y~u, nre s.nY~Jlg it~8Sa muc.h lwa VIer armed :md hen ner expenciIture kmd of. nud ~ Is that· afarr statement ~ .

Commander l{rLr .. ER. lVhat.. now ~ Senn.tcr SCHWEIKER. [Deleted] compared to earlier (is C'mmnandt'l' Mtr,l.1~. I nm' l]ot fmnillar with 0.11': the

[dl.'lctf':d] I c9.n't say that. I know in my part.icltlnrcal3eit· Senat.or SCfIWEIKER.' And what else do you knO\V about (1eJlete~

in general that is pertinel~t to this? In otherwords,theAii!i~ift ..... 0pcl'ittion. . . ..'

Commander :;\-[ILLER. I always considel't'd [deletecl]missi011S' ......... . tremeJy important nnd would plan ns best r knew how to aUow the" photograph-the photo aircraft ic- go iu th('re safety, get his:jobdone. 1l1l~ g~t OUt1 protect him. . . .. .' . .' .... .

Senator SCHWEIKER.. And where dId the r deJet&lJ order come hom ¥ .. 'Vh~re did that originate from? 'Vould you know ~ .f ust rougMl" wha,t was it, GINCP AC 01' was it below CINCr AC, 01.' wheredl<1 [deleted) como from ~ . . ... .

Commandor }!ILLRR, I don!t know at that level. I know at least it wus fruin uur task force commander. I think-you have f{9!i'toge.t somebody from the ship to talk to that. That is out of my baIliwick.


Senator SCHWf';lKF .. H. So t·h~or/lN'for the mid ,thntyo'~~~el~'Q'tl)~9tild.::~," htwe c<)m(> as pn t:t of the J deJ~ted 1 (m le,'? ~nlOEw~r:mttcle,thO;t::~ec~s.ioit'r:. probnblywflsmtlmntely m,'oked In thersnd VOtrw;e~re'on~.;."':<,'-·"":;·, .' , ,

('onurmnder: Mrr.l:En:Cerlnir11y /l, high<>r lc,:('I kll~~\'.'Yh'~re'~h~'ywant~, eu, t? gat-het' mtelhgencf>.: thllt wotlld he t.he deClslOntogeneratC)l, JlllSS10n like that, ves. . ".,' "." ',.;<:>,.,

St>nrttor Scnwv,IKf:R, Ther(': wns nnothel' nirmall\:wholeft;yotil~sliip> for smnewht\tsimihn' l~nsons to Lieutenant Gl'Mpper., Wl1o'waSl'ie' awl can y()U descrih~ under whatcondif,iollsh~.left~ " ',,' ". . ,9:,'-:0'

Commander MILLlm. If ){r. Groepper i'eferred;to-3.' [d~le.tedJ liea1d ,. not, lefl\'e- thE" ship, no: he came baCK witl111s:all the way. '

Senator SCHwRIIu:n: SomebodY turned in theh;~ingst' . CQmmailder MnsL'!~R. He turned in his wi'ngs, yes; . . S('!uator SCHWEl:KER. ,"VIiy dicl he tin'lliil'hjs,vings~ " . .. ......' .... ..' . Commander MrLLER. Because he was llotcapnhlcph~~si(liiny:()t·fly~,·:

in~~~;:~~~fu~:: .r~l~~!~ ~~~ca~~i~~~~%~4~~\~~~~~i~,:·· er ha.d come In: the s}np was down to a·bout 'a2(){);feetoyerc.nstana~:o. ,: quart-el' of a.mile and he didn't wilve'o,tratthepro'Per,tirrie,'i(nd'alnlo~ . hit the island of the ship; immediately'larided"and:'said, thfi.tisik1!e .',' did not land on the ship: diverted to-a; field;.infaCL" . " .•.. :, ." .'

Senator SCH\\reUc£R. t>o you knowoT a.ny instri;nces·of false'tepOrt·: iug: ouany of th~ three rn.idsat alH , ',... . "'.' , '

Commander MILLER. Absolutely not.. . Senator Sc:rfwSntBR. Everything was J"e<!orded? ". " Commander )j)YJLER. r was at all th(>d~bdds:and I win gtln.l'antee

there was no falsifying of any reports t.hat. Ico:tlld.~. .. ...: '.. . •. Senator Sr:uwEIKlm. The mission thnt t:hePresident o~'<iered, whnt

did yO\l Cft.U it, Proud Dpt>p~. 'What wns thatcode'ter91l:' Commander MILLER. 'Pl'oud.Dc.e,p. .'. '. .. . .... Be-nat or SCJn"·F.IKER. Hov;· do you sp~Uthat 1 , .. COlIlIllander :'\frLL.F..R.P~r~o~ll-dD~e~e-p~, ..... . .... , .... , ....... '. ..' Senator SCHWEIKER. You said· tllat WtlSan extraprdintiJjr' kihd,:df';

m is~~on. 'W ti:<3 Presidential ordei-just briefly iwhat,iriadethU;teitroor~' d~nu.ry ~",<~,,<:', .. .. .... .. .

Commander :\~ILLER. 1 ~aiJ it was out.o)': the ordinary'. Senator S.cHWEIKER. AHri~ht. . . .. ',,' .. ,"': ; .' ~<, Commander MIU.Ell. Ont of the ordinary in 'that the '\'-a:yitwas .'

exectltE'd [deleted I. That i::; why it wus ont of- the ordinary tome arid to pilots in our squadl'on. .' . . . . '.

Senator SGHwf:nu:n. ,\Vhnt a.bout the kind of targets you had ?' {i>mmander MILLgn. The tIU·1".\"('tS were constal targcts,mostly, trans-

shipment points. . The oth(\y thing that. wa.c; out of the ordina.ry was that we .wel'e

operating in a, SAM (·nvil'onment. which. of C{}urse~ extends out over th~ water 12 to Iii mi1{,~<:J. 'We eould not See the ground "'here the SA~r:; would lift. off from I\ud itS yMl probllblykn{)w, tha.t is your kev def(>ns~ to l1 SA..\-f missile. to be nble to goo it so you can lU'Old it. If ~vou (,l\n~t se~ it. it is n. difYerellt han j!t1me. .... .. . ,

Senntor :~~lfWEJ1Hm. How cxtensin~ in terms'of [deleted] was-iU What. are1l, googrnpllicaJ1y, did (deleted] coved Was it North Viet. 1H'Lm. South Vietnam~ Laos, all Indnchinn,~ What, geogmpili('uHy, was l.delet<.>d] ~

" ,.


436 ';::;

~ 'ommand('I' ~hl,Llm. I t.hink flu' title [clelC't~qTwn~-'(lh~ii~nt~(l ~trlet I,r fnl' S m'th 'Villtn:un; onr r('('onilrt,i~lice·ah'Ci-n:'ft.,ofgoih.si/ !it·\\" l'C'('UIlU:lis."tUl('('miB..;;:jolls in Lnos un thetimc. . - .. '. ' ...• :F,',.

S('nlltfn' SCI ~\\"Klinm. Alld [deleted/in eSsi?m~e ('hnng~clJ.l~enl~Mit;~ of fhl'- l'(·("mlfl:lISs:i.n{~e 1l1issloH in t(~l'm!-i of wlmt pla.nes'andilrm'iini.(hl:ti;! corered tJw el(>('tl1'mtC'-- . . _ ••.. -.... '. '/ :\-.

Cc}mmand('r ,iHn.f.],:n. I nmnnt Snl'(>, [DelctedJ.hn.d;becll-arouhU~·:for yBtti"S~ 8{>.nn-tor. lnm not. surl' \"hen the nnmeact.unJly_'waskeyed,fo that. l't.>('mmnisslllH.'C -lI1i$~ion, I de). llot know"rhenthatstii.rted~ .. :~::·~.<

Senat.or &mVRIKER> \Vell, we hnse it letterfi·omth~.ca.rr~er·;Htin:. coddhat tulks ab.ollt. some ehtmge (xi this c.haracter· of th~se mis8iQn~k .

(ommtH1del' lfu.I.l.:R. Tho charndeI.": yes. S~nntol" ScmvRmER. Let m~ juSt read t·his to you. . ',,> Commandel'1vbLT.iF:H.· Tam sorrv~ ,.,. ". SelhltOl' SClTWlmmn (rending)": . ",'; r'nm r~fel:l'trig ·W. the recent .' stri1~es in ,the, nOl-t~·<:~w~~·j~ii{;:;~·~~,~;t~~ll&t: ....

"proteetive·. react!Ol\liS;';' --. To give you some.bllckgil)iind~ '··:blstf:yei.lrr~~:re'eOIi~:<. llllisR8nCi!" . Uights weref.lowu· with . our,. Oi:UAAders'ltlt6';;.ti)(t;::~n~Hh;;(""{th:· !<ome ;·SkYJu",-kSas.: protecti.ou:The Plipto,;plnn~ ·j\l'.ere".'iIl~·rm~:~,#~diS;tJle·· briefing of the. pilots consisted. of. empbnsls(}nph(}to.lnt~ltlgence;£~ctf.sionall:v·; .. dley were tired on wllichpreeipltntf!dll' proteetiv(':i'elictlotl.:Tli~'tjicttirifis:rioW' diU nged' conside.rn.bly. 'l'Ile ol}eril. tron ia. en lIed. [(1"lete(11· nrid. ci>nslsf8'~f'.di;teii~ ldlily tht>. same setup. However ~ the 'conoon tea ti(m In. ~~e briefing: H(9U . strlki>s'2:', . the' l't'conllaissanoo. pil~t nt'}\'sit'i .in Ute· hack of· tl1e.ro(}ln?Mr:d1y~n'Otleed;:T})'.f Sky-hawks are Ilrtned with ·our. mO>lt soplIlstlcl\t.(.'(lwe:lpfJll·s nDd latlllchedwitlt . HI!' Cl'tlAAtlcl'. Nuw,bpwever, theCrnsnderls giving the Skybilwkpl"!>tedlou; not from theSi:\Ms bItt from the press. .' . . .. ' ,

It. has to be :fa.irly reeellt vintage. , .' ." '.._ ............•...• ':." ...... . This wasn.lettel'Senfttor Case got earlier tliis year.So·Iani,a:1it.tle

confused by that,,,,..,·.. ....... ., \ ...',' ...... >.~ •• )._ ... ~'.'::-. Commander )rn.J;fm~. 1. d~tl-tttgt'eewl~hwhatJ~/s~J~;ll<t:.that)~tt~r~ .

The character of .(deletedlI nt'\) not.sufe ho,}-:~ong:t~~~,)l~!~:ex~~te~';" ." jUtS ehanged; yes, It. hns ,got to chftngewh~-n .th.<H1e~~~~~s .~~r~:.Ch.~llg~~l. e-ompletely. Yml'couldflyow'r South VletniLm'fr()m;:'19~southon,n;: recommissllll('e nl.i:~s~01i ft.fe·\\··yentsugo "'i!~1)outu;~y{il:iJ\1ry;j~ipha9tf;'~:: or an" threat to vQn,sC'l'iOllS threat. In this lithe 11'Silne,"voii'-cOilld: not: dotlult.,-inno ,:,>tty, and' ollrphotopiJots~ tasslito' Y6~1,·difi':n~t:~i~:j#,th~·· had, of th~ Imding room. Thr-y nre vel'r.key lllt11lsw]lOJe:tllmg-::.: ..

S<>nntol' SCHwr:rrom, But thl' emphnsls" eerhunty wns <mstl'l.kes; w'as it not? . _.' . ".

Command(>r ~fru$En. I disnrrn'(', The empHnslsW'l.\s onjtettingphiJ;." tn:zraphy and. mOl'cspe(,lfienHy, in om-time frnnlE'. finding oul W]l81-e thE' Mi£rR W(,l"(1., .

S{'nator Scnwlmmn. Yon AA jclthere \\'ere 12 pin nes on :ronr mjs.~ion; hm\' many ()f those plnJ1f's ('ould drop hmnhs nnd l'oekets?· ..: .. ,.-

('on'lmnndc:>t' Mrnrn. T think in QnRn~ rAln~T'mtherO'rrereon:ly:gix ()f flml'. dmt dropped b{'mh~fom' or :;ix nt thp. must:. I think i£was four: ht'o w~'r\~ th('l'(' to f'lhoot mTR<;i1('~; ftntlrndzlltion mTmi1eR:nnd t,hev flitl not f>wm firl', T11f>1l! ,,'l'rf>< ~ix of tIl(> a.ir('rnft r'i!iht N'''1'(l.Tllephotc, :l irlTaft hnf<; nn ("snort. ,,·ith him, one or two~s('orts, 'I'hitfis'llin~ail';;; (·'·Ilft. :md l1f"ohnhh: two na-htm' aircraft overhead tf) prot~ct: ngninst· 11 i rh01'1lC :\n~. Th!\t i>; Vl. '.

~(>n(l,tM ~(·n'w1'-:T:lnm. 'Yh~'ft> nrc tlw other two ~ . , ("rmnr.nll(1f;·'l' ).f fT.1~r:n. T 11.n-, ft()t~Hr(>. J \'\.·I}~n ~t on that strjkUt~

th,·}·(> are onl;t, Tour to r;;ix homhers aR snch. . .....


-;.,--

·137

Sellllt,m' SCHWRm.En. l':nm i,f there wel'e Rix, that islltdf the gt:uup . w()uld he bombe.l's.

Cornm~lJld("l' Mu,rJlm. It blkes about hulf of t\l\y strike group in slll>port,

SCnMDl' Bc.m .. 'ImG:n. That. lS my point, see. This ,,'as a. b~<;i()st:dke group and up until [deleted]stnl'tecl hCl'e,yoll dian~t hll\'~, it hll~ic strike group; as he de..qcl'ibes here" you h.<td fI, recoimniAARnce phlile !lnd mt\vhe O})l~ OJ.' .two CoV01'S~ . ' .' .

Conmla.ndN'l\fu,um, Thn.~ is hllJfthe group. Senator S<'rnn:no:H. Bntt,h<'y\\'cre' protedh-<: cm<er; tht"y W(>l"('il~t·

bombers. . ' ' Command<:r ~rlT.LJ:R. The' one I\\,'enton enrlier..--Ihnd boml)R ih my

aircl"a.!t; i~dep('ndson- '.. .... . . ' ~ Senator S!~Jl1'\-"}-::rKgR.Djclyon hsetliem ~ Comma.J'l(lci~ Mu .. u·m.Nd! I did not. . , S(>lHlt.()rScn:wEnu~p ... Tlu'it,: is-tl}epojnt~., .' ,.' ,,' ',;:. ' _... . Commandf.'r Mn.u:l{, Th~I'e wa.s 1l0'thr(·a.t.; t-h(\r",~nw )'nlt's'.'l'pplS':.·~ .' . Senator RCllwEnm}l~ Thnt is;jllst exatctly,<\vhri.t thelieut.enn,nfSaid

yesterda.y . Lieutenant :Moo~'esai'd t,lio: sinha' thing;. $0 th<'ldl(lrttct~r;~f. thi~ bm:nbjng Ofl(,J'lltiori chnngedJ$O~ ironY 'the time, thiR.l<"tJ~l' tn,lk~4 about. Lieutenant JUooresllirt tha.t yeste.l'day .• :Y oll.n.ro.C()ilnrming:8{)mi· of it.todav and thisiswlmt'thp IJitncock fii{~r·snid. . .. ' .... ,

'. Comma-nder l\{ILU·!ll.Thc character oftbc.intol1igcnctylhlitll('cderlto·, bC~t\.thel'ed changed thatmncJr,.too, Se.i1ntor.: ...... , ... ' " .... . :

", .

.. , .-.

. Senator SCll\v;;nun~.I\\'()n'tdisa;gree \vith-thtit. 1-~vmsa,~·the'\th61e eha meter and d('finit.ionof~rot<>.etiv<i, reftctl~n.chftn~t~ nt'Mri1~i?olnL. ,:

Senator CAX~ON. lfthe::;enator,)Yo1l1d.yj('ld.'Icomplp.te]ydlt;ltgrt~e ." ':,' wit·h the .conc1usionsthat lire, b.ehig. dl''n wn. I tho~lglit wo ,,,"'.'1'(>' t.r:yhl~ t, \ to question t.he witness, ratl'lQl.'thrinriJrOlll"owh co})diisiollshert'.I i\:< don't want t.he· recOl,(VtO make it:.appear'. that I" ·f6'r·(meF1i.~ree'fith . the Senator's. conclusions~ wcauS(~ I complet'c'l\,,:,llisngr~; ·,:dth tlieni. ~:,:! That is riot what the \vitile8S is Sa.yillg. '. '.' ". ~,~ ,_: .' . . . t,

Senat-Ol; Scrnn:umu. Let me StlY thnt yesterday.Ijiettwllfi,ntl\fooJ·e dill ~:/~ say thnt t.ht! chal'act.erhnd Chn.llg~d and)letestified.to:thnt~ _. ()3.

Senntor Ct\:-\XON .'H e t;:!,id thecollclitions c1uinge(l.ves.. . ": .,.~.~,."": .• :" .. ~., •• ~,, ..• 1;.':,'~';.""":·'. S<>nator SnHnmmn. Here is nlet.ter I l:end in ';vlfltmcC'Y{'stel-tlil'v :" tJlnt t.(·stified to t.}m:t fact, t:oo. 'Vf!. havf" luidtwo,peOplewJ1o 'snidt1w\'

(lid chnl1~e, s~lb~tantinlly. ram qUe'$tioniu,£! him on it iUl<l I !mu ... nlilld~ .. inj! what WIU; lw{'v}on1"l."· snid hvhispilot. Li('ntenrmt )Ioof,t'.. f,\;':~

S(,Hnto)' ::::bxm~. Snid what ~'Ylmt did I.Jient(}nnllt n(}OI'e~lv? ~:~ SenatOJ' Snnnmom. Hi' sn.ici that t-he l'Rids thRt l\f.~ Pl'.l·tll'ipnt£'fl ill '",' ,

h.~~I'~l~:t ;;~"~~~k'I;~~"h\~'~;~ 'i:::~~ t~i"~~t\::; ~ ~i~i:;j, ;'Ii~~ I;~~' I::::':': ;.~,r,~.".' tIl(' issmdwt'(,. Thatis ('xactly thcpoil1t. . on 1'!'j1'!1-0

S{'uMt.r K\xJm, I didn't.I!£lt thatconcJnsion at-nIt VI 119 ~jJ:~' S~natol' S(:IIWlmu~n. C;o back :tncl rend. the r('~{)l"d is nn I e:m sny. ~:: SellittOI' SA:'mg •• i]I n:r~\t, but what h(} snid 'wns th(>y W('flt 0\'('1' n. \5.

tal':,!pt wh('l'<' the SA)fsltes w(,1'e not mn.nnccl. where tlwl'('wlls no ~< ' thre:lt~ thet'e W~lS no inteHi~(mce indicati'n~a t.hrt'at; therefol'f', the'\'<lid lfji/? not ('xp(>ct any fire aml, in :fact, re.ceived no fire. ' til' ,

St.'nato}' Hnnn:,s. Mr. Chairman, if 'w(' ''I.Tlmt, to nr~u~ amoll~ our-,il: .... ~;i~~~~~~~~t~s do it in executive session, If we are going toqnc&t.ion tho ~X

~';.f'j ;;;~-;':~.: ~ ,


438

S(,lln tot' Sf.'IIWl-:lIom. And !tot 011 my t.ime. 'fl~{' C'HAnL\fA;';. AlJ l'jl!ht~ ,t!clltJemen.. SCll:! t(lf' ,~nl\n;IT\,Er:. You tak~ iSRtw, I ga;~hel;, with the itnplicntion .

I IHn/(('·! . .

COIIlHI(!1lI1t>1' '1\Ilu,TW. I ttlk(' iSRUC with that. SCHntol.' SGHWJ~lju~n. Yon don't, agree ,dtJl the pilotil"Om fhi /

Illii/('or·k at un? . ..... <-'ommandcl' ~fH.r.rm. X(), tlw. \'N'Y llatm'e oft.he compositiOilchnll~,'

O!W h)' yjrtllf' of th,{' ~it'(,l'tl,ft.~ t'i~~~t, aW1\,V, by dl'ttl<~.of OUI' t'~'rm~f}th';" {'raft. [I )clet"d J nHs.'5HlnS~ In ,'al'her years, were desl:;'YllOd prllH it l'lly on:: . rcad s(>~tli{'nt.i'<. l<'ngthf'; of l'onr! 0]' wRt('!'\\'tty ~~nt(n .~a~w1i(';1:elll~n" .. nnissanc{' plant' 'wonld eOHle in one om~end nud go out theoth(!.l';end :: .;t wry high speed. in (>XCt>R$ of ;ion knots. CO\"(,l' nnal'(,:l. of ~O~:~()rilnCs:. ... S( l'ikcuil'el'i\ft {'an"t stu\' with I·ec.oimttissanc~ nircl'nft.inIlii'·w:nv. There 'was no Jfig t.ht'('ht: south of.20° iu those.yeal~. no nf'Nl i~:d}a'\·e·, thl': fight('l' ('S(~orts, didn't enm n~>erl them~ There was no SAlFthreat' . nt. all. no Jl('{'d to defend tH!ninst. the SA~rs.. . . . ..

"",\~'Ill'~ tnlkin/!, ahout a fixed sit€'.,f\. point site: l\'ithhea\·ilveonc~n~'.~ tl'Ll ted <h·fl'l1s('s, It takt,s fi\'(~. ail'cmfUo <1t:fehd ngainsttheimi)titucleof. '. def('ns<,~ they hftve~ .. .. ~~.. . '~ ..... ~ .... ,:. .... ..,:;, . . ... . ('e!tamly: th(' ('ompos,lt.lOl1 ):aRgon,~"{ro~ '~IX to 12,a~rcl~~ft~.lnnybe:: ..

;':lX 11lJ'('mft !!'I not tho.t blg a thmg. The 1 oa,d mg on tlle'alreraftlsr;~m)~ pk,t('l,Y di:fi'(>l'Cnt. clifi'crcnt a.ircTftIt.. ..... . .... ..-..

S('nator SCllW}~ll{ER. Let Jnc.put itnnother 'vay~:· .... .. ...... . .. You said tc S(>nator HU!!,hes ,·ou ha<lluw~r.kll oveJ~·N orthViet~ ..

lln.m without b~irlg a.~.t~cked i>; t.he last t'~OJt.ri<l a !ial£yefLl:s~··'foil1iJso . <;

s~nd~ and I gnther thIS 1S a IOglCfd conc1USlO:1; thllt messen~e~ that ga"e ~mn ~:H,'- right to unlimited bombing ill Korth Vietnam under p'rotecth'e n,::lctioll? .

Commander l1rLLlm, Abso1ntelv not. I did notsn:y,thnt~ . ... . .. Sel!ntOl~ SCH\\'F..l.!{l-:u. f..etts get bac.k-thatis a yeryfine point.hut an .

irnport:mt one.: .. . . ... \ny important target thet'(.~ would h:-:.vegiven. some kind of 1m stile

t'(>:tction dllring that period? . ./.: ComlllalHlel' -Mno/LIm. Oll It militnrv complex: yes, sir. / ';,. .. Senator SCHWEIKI:!R. So yon wou}([ht1,¥" had tm<le.l'that·defill~.tii;~)li:~ .'

df(.'ct the right to unlimitedly bomb that pa:rticular t.ftrget,wf~ilIH\ you .. ' not? . .,', \ 90mlnan~el' MILum, rnl!mitc(l ~s qt1estioI~e(l there. ... ...\ .): . benatol' .7'jcnWF,IKElt. I .. et s sa.y hunted, I..lmlw.d to that tal"g~t,wou

would han~ had the t'i~ht to bomh. right. on anv H.i'eft that von took on in the tlm<> YOU Dllked Rbout,? ..' .... .... ', ...

COTHlHaH(\er l\fu,um. Jf~jn race a reconnnissanee phmocame nnder llttn.ck.

Sl':nntor SCH'VI~IJu-:n. Ym.l 8aH. they alwa;ys did ~ COfnInandC"f l\fTLLEJt. They nh,·n.ys did. Stnatm' Srmn:nn;n. That is t;'xuctly what I am trying to sa v, that

tht' chr~radC'r eh:'tllgcd collsid~rubly, and you are wstifying: to tIlfit~ tlult you had the right to go in and bOll1b at will on any mIlitary target' lr(>(:~ nse the: JUtt-ur(~ of t.he wn.rfarc had changed; so the ,vhole concept IHlcl (:hallged 180".

That is the only point I am mftking. You may aot agroowith my !:01wlnslvn. You agJ'ee with ~·he fact; you testified to the fact that


439

you I~<td It right w nnJim,ited bombing 011 tJw'Sc targets wherohostile ' r<:tl(;tlOl\J3 al\\'ltys ShOW(ld m c\'t>ry euse rou went into North Vietnam 1 ' , Commulld?r l\1rLJ.t::n. l,n the time fl'~mc r am talkin~;l went hd:mc

tmw on 11. ihgllt j J<'S, su-, and we did come under fil,(>~ ~(mtltor .sCllwmln:t:. Li~ntem\1\t. 1\Io()l'e testifiedvestcrday tJ:nt

II(> also fOHnd tlmt out on hi~ l'ttid. ~ OK~I ~un Hnished. Til(> CnMR){,,\X. Tlwuk VOl!.

2\fl'. 'Yoo}sey. you sai<l YOU lwei some questions. }{J', 'VO()I.s~l·~ ·tes}sil'. ' . . ' Comnm.ndN'. why tlidth(' thrt'Ht, which was pereciyed as a: result

of the th'st Qttn,llY 'Lang: IHis."iolJ did~th~ that for the second missioT!", the l'l'commissance all'l'l'nTt wns to come in after the strikeaire.l·ttft'?

Command('J' ){n,um. TIl,:, tnctics ,n'l'C ('hanged becm:h.~;whntwe li'al'lH'd 011 ill!' fit·sf. Qu:m~: Lanl! L w(' lenrnedwhere t.he SAM sit~s'. ' , ... Wf'l'e; we learncd,;'h"rt' the. t.dpl~ A sites Were! we learned :\vhed~:, ~':~J'. n.11 their, ra.dnr sit{'s w(,l't',nlld ""epoSitiol'ied'ourc:f\)l'cesdntneseoond',::,i<';':;":: -" ol1e to be in dose proximitr t~ t.llOse ,plac(:'s'-if thcy:.d.ia nre'upol1' the·~.' .'1'.'~, ;·r\' l'£'emmaissancB plnn~. . ., , ... ' '.. "":"',:, c.: ~·J·:il~>':':<· "

.. \5 it happel)(>d. tilt, wny:it ad\UlBj:eyolved,i.h~ailf<fi~#·;g6~ng;~~;:(> '·:;;:.:X .. /· theil' positions in tlwQnallY L~ng~2 cnmeundel·t~~i-'Yllea!~·'~~!:a,.c~7fL,:.';:·:/::;;t';Z,," from whnt I e3n g~l.th(>r. n.llca neruttnek thun wem'etJateroWlitnllv';~ .': :>#,,:" pla('('in North Vietnam.' '. '. .', ". .' .. ' ", '... .• : v·,'·'

:.\ft'. '\YOOU.:ET. Y£'.R. lmt r amdc>ulihg wit·ll the·i)riefing,.ho'\",'l'iot. ",lwt Of'('u1'l'('d on tIl€' strik('. '

Cmumand<>l' ~hLI,;En. I was not tit the briefing, if,YOtlreeaU,thnt/.· ) f e. 'VOOI.S'EY. You sa.id yon !ll't' iamilial' with how the strike was"

Twi('fNl as·,l l'esult of subs{'(plent- . , , " CommnrHh:r lHu.f.r-:I{. Strict}" s('('on<1 hand j I did }10t.' n.tt~nd the

h"jC'fiIW. • , , ... ' ~ . ." , ~ .

MI', lV f)()vmy, .Tu!'lt as (\, mnt.tt'l' of taeti('s. thl."lh whnt would the st.rike . ' ain:Tuft. hi' o1'<1('1'(>d to do-to go into a holding pattern and circle ~w\'\'ra.1 milt'S from til(> ajrfiE'ld? '

Commander l\fru.F.u. [Deleted.] , ' )fr. ,\Vooumy. I see. How man v a ll'e raft , other than thel'('connnis~ " .

all('(' ail'craft wm'(' on t!lllt. second'Qnany I..lang strike, approi'imat~lyf,' ' f'ommnnder MiLu:n, .:r\ppJ·oximately a dozen. ....'..: " )f r. \VOOl,RF.Y. If t.hr.y l,('ftdwd tht> nl'~a; the g:en(\ra!a.rea· o:fth€,':nir~

H<'ld b(>fOJ'e th(> r('(~onnuiss:ul<'e ail'crnft, would tJ)'~:"meaF that· the fit'Bt aircrAft which would he see:ll on thl" ttl'Olmd. from thegl"oltnd,' at Ow ait·Dcld. \\'oul(l h(' sh'ih aircraft l'Oml1~ in?

('omrnan<l{'l' lrH."m~. Not n('('{'ssarih-, l\'fr. ,V OOT.SEY, "'hv not? . ('OllUlHWclcl' }fru,in. A tIn'eat t'a.<tfl.\' c\I.n- ·the whole ~roup went .'

tna('tll(~r fdd('tedl. A \'ftdar ('ould have locked on the reoonnaiSSllIiee plnn{> very ell .... silv.

The SA1\{ ~it~-I know t.1w p(l!'ition of one SA!f site is north of the· fii'ld nnd prohnhly, t.hf' r(·t'onnuiss:mee aircrait was in his envelope II{' fm'e HIe other aircl'/lft· werf', .

::Hr. \Voor<f.r~Y, But Iv'('ol'ding to the plnn, tbe strike airciaft-were, to f!{'t to thE.'! iU·I!!\. of the fi .. 1cl. Hie aeneral locale of the field,beforothe r<·('nnnll.issn.ne~ ph,n!.'; is t.}lIlt true?


440

C(}lIml~HltlN' .\hr.f.}:l~~ lf~' Ulu.lel'stnnd ing' i~ 10 toLl s(~I,(J!ld~, ptobaht§, fit tIw most.

l11\ 'VOUl·WY. 1 HI:'(', "

Tl,te CII;\UnL\X, If you WN'C Itt It stopl)ing pltlt,(,~ \\'e./::m tak~ Sena. tor S(·hwl'lker.

){ 1', ""'{)()J,;:Y':y, Y ('8, si!-.• rust one,more. Tiw CnAlR)L\X • .All right.. . .c ..... . i':',

)fr. 1r001,s!-:\-, 'n~re \'OH It Win'€' of:niV' Xu\,\, 01' Air Fote!' .re(>ofiifnii.'. ~[mcc missions in. an ~\l'lier period whieh tiew o\'{>l~Noti:h' Vietnn,lll wit.h just. t\\'() or t.lu'{'(' escorts whidn'\"(~re n(}tfil'{~d tlt ? .,' . . : :.: .

. Commander l:IuJ..Jffi. AbsoluteJy nqt. "".':' ~fr. W'OOL$ln,~. Y Ott were a"~a.l'e ofabsohltely none. ~ Commander JfnJ.lm. That lam tl.wnl;e·of~~:'~ ;. }Jr.1Voor~"'F.Y.Thank;v~n~' Mf>Chnitrilnn,' •..... '."',:;-':\1::;>." ... ,;(:/:;; ... The CHAm~fA~. Ithi~lk 8erintol' Siixhe';;wns ll'erc, tlJI;;:tlj'~~lii(jrning~.

r1~:*~A~;~~?liii~i~lt;ont;·.·d:~ii;;}~;;~~JJ~~~1t}~f:~:' .. Senntor .CA!'<I"~mN' •.. Thillik' ,~ou;l\Ii'>C~jnirri)nnj0:r9im~~iiQt0;tN . "'osi,;.~".

tionto (luestion \rery l11ueh l~cnuseI riji~5ftlii$f:nioriiiijg~~Ji,t:'i~\igli,t;,;, of the exduulge'hert~; when.itapPC!tl.r¢d;:!~}lit,yOtl;tlid:ri.q~~ltgt~~. I:*i?~ld;·, . lilm yo'} t~ Btatc .no,~·.~th~Jl~ in·.l'espon~.0,iltj~;1;~T~~:~":~it1:t,,~~tiiliJJY::!6\t:· determined the eondltJonstobennd ,,-hethe.r'you:feity<)U'haclthe l'11!'11t to unlimited bombing- and, if not, how': ~\~ere yot't"proseribcd:>\\",itli respect to vonr hombin~? . "'.. . "';', '.' '.',

Commander MU.LElt. The conditions were w(' 11 eStnolishcd·andJirf'O,. tmd understood .by ev(:>tyhodyillV'olvectl>rlor'to Oltr'goirik on.:itTde-oi leted] mission. On tlw [deleted] mlSsionthul1 pa.rticipat.(i~lj)1, Quang Lang' 1, evef'yhody knew whntthe.rtiles ,were, thatwe,":~renot~to, ntt.lwk unless \ye \\'"el'efired' llpon,b~·j~f(!d byt'4e.nir·,:jn:temgen~: . offir.er. . .... . ." '. '.: ,. .: .':'.c..., .. '. . .,' . " '. '.

'Va went, to Qmnig Lnng,l, Our photc)aircl'aft precooed~6111·~trike" eam(\; under attttck. before we c .... enarri't"ed;onth.( .. seell~aJia:when· he cilme uuder attack by AAA:nild·;SAl\I",mi~H<'.s bOt,1ii",e"atJ~ked: .. the field, lVe nttacked' the SAi\[. sites tbr(mgh·aircraf~Oli;tlie:SAl\{:·. sjt('~ two, two on the l'tmwny,triple,A>up'an(r.d~\'in:t.lle';run'yay~'a,»a>' \\"6IUld two ot.her flak snppres..<;ors on tlle' tlip:ht,theinseh'es,:tlle :tiuri~ . way. And werlepnrtedthe area verv rtlpidlv~jVedidnotdan)(al;otlnd '. the'-reto do what I con~!df.red unIimltffl b<mibingfamk ,;,;,.,: .. '

Senator CAXX,?N. HoW' nlany a.ircra;ftdidY01:l h:ii~e'onthafmisslon:t Commander l\fn.r,En. 1\fe. hadappl'oximntely 12 total in thegronp. Senator CA'SSO:'. "ra,::; that the snrnenuinber ofaircl'o.it used on

Quang: Lang: 2? .... .. ('ornmamlt'l' MILT~ml. I think appro:x:il11ntelytlle-sam~nnlnbe~,_<ht1f

n.ft(,l' Qu~ma r~anf! 1~ we learned of. thn dMenscll1-esence.()f:l\1J~:,tlie·ro, .. a~d I thmk w(' ftugmentecl our- !1ghter f()rces,?ui-fi~l1tcr c,aP1~Jij~.t an', yon kno'w, oY(>r the field, ~rlth t.wo more :utcrnft 'Jtnd,tookJ'two~:' a,way: from the bombers. '. . _" .. ' . <,,:;:;.:

Senator CA:S-N~:S:. Did your recon pict.ureson ~unng r.Ail}g-l~h~w,;.,,, .. the presenC'e Of.Mlgs on the field? . . .... ..'. ., ......."':,. /,;,;'< '

Commander l\flLI,F,fl. Yes, sir; they did;nnd thus,ehiinged.bu:rtti'cf:\:> tics to!' Quang Lang 2. ",DI!~8:a:;: ,

. , ,:' ~~, ... ' " -'~ ~"';. .


.::':, :~" ':','. --l, .'

~;" ,

~~:.;",

· ~\~nl\tor (',\ ;-:X());. :'\0 I hat. nUl (:hnn~'t'd Iwt\\"('Nl Quang Lang l~nd Quantr Lall:;! :.! Itl" n rt'Sult of tfw ).f 1f!.S on tlw fit~ld ~ .

(:mlllllll ndN' ~f IJ.U:Jr. Thnt i:-; (·(wr~'i·t. of f hl' int(>llit,.l't'nc(' W{' 1(,ItMwtl. :-tPH;ltm' ('.\X~o:-;. Did yon pN'sonnl1r fttt~nrl othe.rbJ'it~finQ'S? For ('xamph'. <lid ,\'OH 'aU'('l)d th<" hj'j('nng for Qmmo- r.1i'tg 2t COIHIlIl\n(iI'I' )'In.l.Im. I di(t not. attend it. n.o. . to> .

S('nat,or C.\::-lNO:::. pit! ~'ou llormai1y not attend, hriefings nnl(-&q you \'\'f'l"t~ ~Oll1J! on a »11&;10n ? '. ,. . ..... ". ;... '., :~; ~: , Conun:m<ler·:H TU.F.R •. The phy~icnl ('.ollst.rn.int 'of· spllceint:lle:l>ri~#;i m~ roollll'(\stri<!ted m<eryhody from goillp:to nUtbe.briefings.;< . '.': .•

Senator' ('AXXOS. So did it restrictit toonlY.people'\-lio\\'-cregohlg· on the. mis~ion? .' . . ...... ' .. " .... .,' ,.: / .. ;

Conmmndcr Uru.J':n. Rnsically. It was over dosed· circuit TY·; anclT. m~wha\"ce[tna-ht, some of it. I do not. recalL ." .... .'- "~' ...

~enato)' C.\':'{xox. ne~ftnse. I nndcl'stood one'~tt1ic witnesSes·toiltl.Ve said they he<trd certain things told o~"not t61(f';()nn;hriefu:ig;and:~I 'wag wondering wheth£>I' or1lot he ","as o:et(tally there~I'n.inref~rril\g,to Gl"Oc:pper 11m'\". , ,c..,.::···...'.:

COlDlllllndcrMrr .. riER. l\Jr. Groepp<!r ..... ~·nls not .at,:t.l1e·b~iefin~~:' Ap,.·. pltrently he snid in his lett.er,JH~;·l.noniwred. it on the.:TY circui~ On. a . TV circuit briefing, too, you only hear the ma·n ,that istalking.AriY qne;;;tions or discmssions that goon in the room itself, he w()tl.ld.rtotoo pdv;V to whatsOCYE'f'. The microphone is right lH:re with tliem!tllthat is rloin/! the ta]kjn~. Any qnestions ..... --there nre. cOll\"et'Sntions here and t1wr(). t.hel'e l1re questions from the pilots on r\lles'~mdspecin:Lthingsf -\ Y'i'Oldd not he 11C'ai'd, ...... ..

S'?lHlt01' F;('nwl~ll{f~n. 1\:0' ou1dlle hayc'heardthebl'ie:red '. , f'ommnmler )iu.Ll'm. The hriefer is all. . . . .. .' Senator C.\~xo::-\: --:\.r.<> .you nW~I'e of any briefingagiyen while y()u ..

\\"1'1'(, or; duty tl!(,l'e m wll1('h the l)llnts were told that. t.hey could attack nn~' tal'~('tR t'egnrdI('ssof whether they w(>1"e first: fil'ed·on~.. ..'

Commander MILl.El!. Absolutelv not. Senator. And Ihrlefed fora ~mhS('qnent follow-on rnjd~ Quang'r..ang 3. Tllat. was 11 very specialpa'ft' of the briefing:. It. never materillized. the fl~~l~t did'not.. . . '.

S(matm' C.\:'{xox. Ber:ause·of \veathel' or what ~ . Commandcl' Jfrr.r,v:n.1V"enther, 'Yenther pl'~c1uded.the flight St'untol' CAXXOX. How lonl!were you oh,dnty there? '. Commll~lflt'l' ~IlI,LJm. On .dutv irom--VlC arri'\'(:.d in the Gul:fof .

Tonkin in NO"emher an(r we left'in Sune. . Senator C,\xxo!', For t.he l'Ccord. whnt Yl"al'~' ComnUlIlc1(,l' )lrr.Lr.:'U •• THlU' 1!J.72~ ,\y(' nrl'hr('d )\o\'em]Jt:'l+ IniI. St'oatm' (\\;xxo~. That is u}] 111ftV('. St'nnt(w Hrmrf~S. ,rust one quest.ioll, Did formel' Lieutenant GI'oC'PPCt'gct a recolrmlcpdationfor an ,

a Wll I'd ;1 fh'l' Prnud DN'}) a!onp: ~\'ith t.h(' ?tllel' pilots t.hat participntcd} Commander ~fu,J,J.;H. 1 e:;. :m'; he (h£1, re('ommended for an Au"

~f('llat nnd snhsNlll('ntly l'('ceivNl it, .' .. SNlatm' Hn:m·:s. "Who ma.kes t.hose fC'commenciat.ions. vou ~ C()mmalllif'1' ){u.u;n. It iR an i]lvoh'ed pr(){'.{'ss. fiasicaHS·,the strike

k'a(}l'I' hlHlsl"}f know!': whnt lmppencd on t.he ShiIte and suhmitsreeomll1{'tldatjon~ for aWllt<ls. Tlwy 11.0 t.hrough n. series .of nwardbotl.~dsnt t·h(~ air v;int! k'<;('1 (HHI nt. the ship level ::tndfimi.l1y go tHrough1th Fk~t. CnmmalHh'r. 7th Fl('l,t. is the one that gil:es it fiutl.Ily.


442

&n:ltOl" j ft~UlJE~, C'OhlUlftlHlc'l' :,\Im.,I', I jutrt \\'1Hlt. to $.'\V I think "ou hflw ~l(>{'n im t'x('{'llNlt. 'yltJW5S. w·,.y dir(·(·t ntld \'('ry l'('sl;()nsiv~ to·tll~ tlllN5tlOUS. I hnn' Hp}lt'tY'Ia{-@d that very mneh. Th9nk you.

f'omnllludf'l' '\fn.u:n. Thank vou. sir. Tht'. CII,\{JOl.\X . .ll"etlwre' allY ()flu'l' qtwstion~ of Commttt1.dt't'

lImed . . . .. (N<, f(>spnnSt'.) .. .. ... .:./ Th(' ('n.\1lt:\D~ .. \~ ftlr as we knoW'. Cmmnt'mdct";.thatisaB theql.loo~::::

tions we hal'c for yotlRud w~ thank you first and es:euse younow>It'·: ('0111<1 a(''r(')op where we would ,,,,ant. yon bnck. you see; but it d~Sll()t appt'ar that wax no,,-, .. . . . .....

Tlmnk you :i:;rRin rOl' eomillj! In, 'W"e enjoyed seeing you ;and t.hi\t little. chat with vou this lnol"ning. . .. .....: .

Stay with Nnvy as long as Jon and the Navy can agree on it. ('"ommnnrlecl" MILLER. Thn.nk you ",m's much. . ... Tho CIIAml!A:"'. GentJemea of the committee. on order to. try to·

accommodate Admiral M()()'rel'......:..l\l.~has to ga'to NATO~ nnda.lso.li6. hns duties this dternoon t.o take him down ,to a eonfereilco in Vit·;, .. :!inift-~e. phOllCd ~im.whell.wesaw: we could ge~~~~\im iindllewin be here III Justa mmut.e.-Uc_lJ3 ()yenn theapproprlatlons room:·,· ..

The question hilS been asked by Ui.epres.".l andothersa~ut.Admiral; )feC~till. There is nothint?:in tIl", r~col'd nbQtltAdmiral McCain'innnv· wny, about. this Lavt'lh,; mattt:-r, yon kn()"~t bltt. he \VaSCOnllnan~ii1g otIkerin that a.rea. 1 ('t'lllcdhiin this mornmg and lonn.do\\t,h~ ""as ·hcre in town. but I jnst ti~k('(l him to htl on stnn.dbynnd let him coine· in. .., .'

I am HlI'<: yoU ha\"(! no $(~ruple~ nhont IX'in[t ):;\t"orn? . . . ..... ..... .. Do yon s(;j(:mnl~- f;WeUl' yOUl' tt'stimol1.v in tlu::so hearin~ wi11be HIe'

tt-nth. th(' ,,\"l101e truth -nml nothing bilt the truth, so llelVYou God?: Admiml MnORF.u.J <10. sir. . , .. . Tlw C'U.\HDf.\:-:. A n \\'itn(,FRl~ fll'e ~worn. von'sel': .. .\dmirnl )f(IOmm. That is fin" with mi'. sir.

TESTIMONY Ol<'AD1!. TB:OMASn. lfOORE..Rt ORAIRMAN';.TOmT CBlEFS OF STAFF

The CII.\llm ,\:-:. ~\dmi1'llt, w{' hntl yOlll' te::;timony '\'henyoltl~ nomina· t iml \\'Ug ttl) lmd \'<lU f\Uld(, j) l'f'fC'reo('(' thf'l'(> (0 thp nltl.:ttp,rof this bomh. in~ OV(>J' i~l thf' 1.,:)\'n1 t('r-!'1t ()1',r, 1 ('n 11 it. Thel'ehns l)('.en nothinir, in rl\,il·ll(.>;:;~ to ,·OU, l1othint(no\y ill di red contrndieri<}l\ to what ~as said . Ill' anythilIglike tlwt, Hut O(\Hl:l':tl LnYi'I1edid tC'stifyabollt 11 eon· \'{'l':'tpti()n wit it von. .

.\dmil'al :\f~ml';!!. Hig-ht.~ir. Th<.> Cn.\1n}{'Y:-O. I I·filled ~'ou ~md told YOH thnt I would UkeYO\l h)

('nnw on'f. to whidl yon t'('ndilr llg'I'eed. and address yonrseHto thnt :-'Hhjl'rt mRft('\' in th(> H~ht of his t~stimony,

,\t1l1lirnl.::\fonm:Jr. y{'~, .sir. The': CH.·mr;"L\~. Tlu\t 1S the primnl'y l'et~son why yon wel"e cnilC(l, •...

or (·Ol\~{~. Yon u})(I;~~d:~lnt? Of\7.·.7.~ •. · . Atln.m'tl :\{oon?f •• ) eS.Sll.V .. 1iiJ'!!,t Tlw ('nAI1BU1'o!. 1V(' nre glad to f!et t,.o you, too, at it time when you

can!!,o to th~ 'NATO Conf~t.'enc€'.


ii. r.s. 'rh~~rettrebia$t~' · to of a •• .\-i 'n~ .... . ii \n~ ~ !~

Documents