henry jenkins short interview uah--af edits(1)
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7/29/2019 Henry Jenkins Short Interview UAH--Af Edits(1)
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University of Alcala Interview
www.uah.es
-Para los no iniciados, ¿qué es la cultura de la convergencia y cómo ha influido Internet en
favorecer el desarrollo de la cultura de la convergencia?
For the uninitiated, what is the convergence culture and how has the Internet helped to
promote the development of this convergence culture?
When I wrote the book, convergence was primarily understood in technological terms – the
consolidation of media functions through the same device, as in the ways that the mobile
phone or tablet has now become the Swiss Army Knife, which facilitates a range of interactions
which might once have been dispersed across many different media platforms – a camera, a
telephone, a web browser, and so forth. My book argues, though, that whether or not mediafunctions are moving across platforms, media content is clearly moving across them. We live in
a world where every story, sound, image, and social relationship is going to be conducted
across every available media platform, whether shaped top-down by decisions in corporate
boardrooms or bottom-up by decisions in teenager’s bedrooms. This is the heart of what we
mean by convergence culture, whether we understand it in terms of fans writing stories or
creating videos based on their favorite media franchises or in terms of transmedia
entertainment, which spreads content across many different sites and anticipates consumer
networks will pull them together as resources for their own discussions. Our forthcoming
book, Spreadable Media: Creating Meaning and Value in a Networked Culture, (which I co-
authored with Sam Ford and Joshua Green) moves beyond a focus on reception and
production to talk about the role of grassroots communities upon the process of media
circulation and the way this is transforming the media landscape. Read side by side,
Convergence Culture and Spreadable Media offer a fuller picture of the ways that our relations
to media (old and new) have been impacted by the introduction of networked computing.
-En su libro publicado en 2006 sobre la cultura de la convergencia de los medios de
comunicación, fue muy futurista cuando habló de la televisión a través de Internet. Hoy es
toda una realidad, ya que millones de personas ven sus programas por la red. Ahora se está
produciendo el proceso contrario: Internet en la televisión. ¿Esta convergencia tendrá éxito
como las anteriores?
In your book published in 2006 about convergence culture in the media, you were very
futuristic when you spoke of the possibility of television being transmitted through the
internet. Today this has become reality, since millions of people watch their programs using
the internet. Now we can see that the opposite scenario is occurring: Internet on the
television. Will this convergence have the same success as those previously?
By the time I finished writing the book, iTunes was just starting to release selected televisionprograms via the web and YouTube was taking shape as a platform which facilitated the
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sharing of video and there were many start ups which promised to facilitate video-sharing on
line. But, you are right that the bulk of the developments in this space have taken shape since
the publication of the book. I have never identified my contributions primarily in terms of my
ability to make predictions. Where we are talking about new media technologies and practices,
this is a fool’s mission – something like jousting with windmills. The digital distribution of
television served clear social functions: it allows people to catch up on episodes they missed
on their own schedule; it allows people to watch television as they travel; it allows people to
access larger archives of materials no longer in wider circulation; and in the case of YouTube, it
provides a distribution channel for grassroots produced media. As we think about the internet
on television, there is no question that people will want to use networked computing in
relation to television viewing, but the open question is whether the dominant model will be
accessing the computer through the television set or using two screens, the laptop and the
television, side by side. We are seeing different companies making bets on both of these
scenarios. Right now, in America at least, many people are consuming both simultaneously –
sometimes dividing their attention through multitasking and sometimes using the computer tolook up information or interact with others about what they watch on television. But, right
now, the television screen is a shared viewing experience, in many cases, where-as the
computer is a personal media experience, and it is not clear people will want to merge the
two. Right now, watching television remains a lean back activity, where-as accessing materials
on the web is a lean forward activity. While there are rich experiments with the second screen
scenario, I have seen far fewer that take advantages of the full capacities of accessing the net
via the television. Oddly enough, perhaps the strongest impulse might be to use the television
to access television and video content that flows through the web, so we can watch it on a big
screen.
-Hablamos de un proceso de democratización de la comunicación sin precedentes, pero en
contraposición a eso hay planteado un proceso de concentración mediática preocupante
(Google, amazon, apple...), la 'niebla', el fog computing es una amenaza real... ¿hacia dónde
nos encaminamos, señor Jenkins?
We talk about a democratization of communication without precedent, but contrary to this
there exists a worrying mediatic concentration ( Google, Amazon, Apple…) the “fog” , fog
computing a real threat. In what direction are we actually heading, Mr. Jenkins?
I do not see democratization as a direct consequence of technological change; it is a
consequence of the choices we make in terms of the use of technologies, and at the moment,
we are still in a time of struggle and transition over the long term impact of digital media. The
potential certainly exists for networked communications to enable a much broader level of
participation in shaping cultural production and circulation, allowing much greater
communicative capacity in the hands of everyday people. And there is evidence that some
groups of people have moved from “playing” with those capacities to using them in ways
which transform political debates within their countries. We see this more political use of new
media everywhere from the Arab Spring movements to Occupy Wall Street to the Tea Party to
Kony 2012, to cite just a few recent examples. But, you are absolutely right that there are very
real risks in the current move to concéntrate ownership in the digital industries, much asmedia ownership has concentrated in the traditional media sector. The emergence of
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“curated” platforms such as the iPad has the consequence of making some media functions
and applications far more accesible than others, posing every bit as much a threat to the
diversity and generativity of the web as would a loss of net neutrality. Whether ‘cloud
computing’ poses the same risk remains to be seen, though it is clear that we are more
vulnerable in a world where we do not own the media that matters to use but merely Access it
from corporate hands. After all, Amazon has never gone into my home and removed books
from my shelves, but they have recalled books purchased for the Kindle. I think we do,
however, need to make distinctions in our understanding of the impact of media ownership
depending on whether concentrated media seeks to shape media content (as in the
concentration of broadcast networks) or media access (as in telephone companies), as we try
to predict the potential impact of this concentration on our lives. Both pose some challenges
to the democratization of media participation, but the challenges opérate at different levels
and there seems to be a lot of confusión between the two.
-Dado el actual panorama de cierre de empresas informativas en España ¿Es la convergencia
mediática una causa o una oportunidad? ¿Cuál es su punto de vista?
Given the actual panorama with the closure of Spanish news companies , is mediatic
convergence a cause or an opportunity? What is your point of view?
-Incluso grandes magnates del periodismo en España hablan de la desaparición de esta
profesión y, con ella, del modo de concebir la generación y emisión de la información como la
hemos entendido, ¿usted qué atisba para el futuro?
I do not know enough about the Spanish situation to comment with any specificity, but let’s
take the broader view. Clay Shirkey, in the United States, has suggested that we shift the
conversation from what needs to be done to save newspapers, to what needs to be done to
meet the information needs of communities. The first is preoccupied with specific mechanisms
which have historically performed the functions described by the second. I have advocated
thinking about the concept of a civic ecology – that is, an array of operations which helps
support the civic life of the society, some of which are performed by profesional journalists,
some of which are performed by a range of grassroots organizations and individuals. This gets
us out of a space where the growth of so-called “citizen journalism” (a term I hate) is being
read primarily as a threat to the survival of profesional news organizations and into one where
the two might compliment each other, allowing us a greater array of information than ever
before. Certainly the loss of robust news organization is a net loss for society, but the
expansión of the citizens’ capacity to shape the flow of information also results in more diverse
perspectives, allows citizens to assert their own agendas about what stories should be
covered, allows citizens to challenge and créate greater accountability over what counts as
news, and so forth, all of which have potentially beneficial impacts on the future of democracy.
So, is it a cop out to say that new media is both a threat and an opportunity for democracy.
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Even the greatest journalistic magnets in Spain talk of the disappearance of this profession,
and with it the way of understanding the generation and the transmission of information as
we know it, can you see what the future holds?
No – I can not see what the future holds. Nor can anyone else. What we can do, though, is
identify what is at stake in our current struggles. I do think that the idea of journalism
disappearing as a profession is an over-reaction. Journalism is a core function of any free
society and I remain optimistic that people will find a way to insure its long term survival, even
if we do not at this moment know what shape it is going to take. The specific organization of
news gathering and circulation, though, has evolved over time in response to shifting historical
circumstances, and we are at another transitional moment where the business models and
institutional support for news is undergoing dramatic shifts, even as we are seeing an equallydramatic emergence of ways that nonprofessionals are contributing to shaping the production
and flow of information which they rely upon as communities. The anxiety which this is
producing is considerable, especially given the degree to which mis-information (often partisan
in nature) is flowing through the culture without challenge or correction as the credibility and
stability of traditional gatekeeping organizations have faltered. We are learning to live with the
expanded communication capacities of our society and as we do so, there are signs that the
public wants the kinds of structural support which traditional news organizations provide more
than ever. So, for example, when Americas started seeing tweets from protestors in Iran or
Egypt, they turned to CNN and other news organizations for more analysis and fact checking.
When they saw that the professionals were lagging behind grassroots channels, they cried out
that “CNN fails,” not because they wanted less journalism, but because they expected more,
because they wanted a greater voice in shaping what kinds of news mattered and where the
press was allocating its attention and resources. So, we may see some painful consolidation of
news, which has, as we suggested above, some consequences for the quality of information
we receive and certainly has consequences in terms of the job security of individual reporters
and editors, but in the long run, what will emerge is apt to be a richer system where
information gathering and circulation functions are shared between journalism and people
from a broader range of different occupations.