grazzini-rucki v. rucki trial transcript
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Grazzini-Rucki v. Rucki Trial TranscriptTRANSCRIPT
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STATE OF MINNESOTA DISTRICT COURT
COUNTY OF DAKOTA FIRST JUDICIAL DISTRICT
Sandra Sue Grazzini-Rucki,
Petitioner,
vs. File No. 19AV-FA-11-1273
David Victor Rucki,
Respondent.
Transcript: Morning session of September 12, 2013
The above-entitled matter came duly on for
hearing before the Honorable David L. Knutson, one
of the judges of the above-named Court, on the
12th day of September 2013, at the Dakota County
Judicial Center, City of Hastings, State of
Minnesota.
APPEARANCES:
Michelle MacDonald, Attorney at Law,
appeared on behalf of the Petitioner.
Lisa Elliott, Attorney at Law, appeared
on behalf of the Respondent.
Filed in First Judicial District Court 1/23/2014 2:10:14 PM
Dakota County, MN
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INDEX PAGE
Witness:
Julie Friedrich Direct by Ms. Elliott, Page 9
Cross by Ms. MacDonald, Page 27
Cross by Mr. Jerabek, Page 47
David V. Rucki Direct by Ms. Elliott, Page 57
Cross by Ms. MacDonald, Page 86
Cross by Mr. Jerabek, Page 87
Redirect by Ms. Elliott, Page 91
Recross by Ms. MacDonald, Page 94
EXHIBITS
Exhibit No. 12 Marked, Page 10, Received, Page 12
Exhibit No. 13 Marked, Page 10, Received, Page 15
Exhibit No. 12A Marked, Page 55, Received, Page 56
Exhibit No. 14 Marked, Page 91, received, Page 92
Exhibit No. 15 Marked, Page 91, Received, Page 92
Exhibit No. 16 Marked, Page 91,
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P R O C E E D I N G S
(Whereupon, the following proceedings of
September 12, 2013 (a.m.) were duly had:)
THE COURT: We're going to go on the record
here. We're going to --
MS. MACDONALD: I'm putting something on the
record.
THE COURT: No, you're not.
MS. MACDONALD: Yes, I am.
THE COURT: No, you're not.
MS. MACDONALD: Is this on the record?
THE COURT: No. We're going to leave the
courtroom until the deputy is back in here.
(Off the record).
(Recess taken).
THE COURT: Okay. We'll go on the record
here. This is the case of Sandra Sue
Grazzini-Rucki versus David Victor Rucki, File
Number 19-AV-FA-11-1273. This is day two of the
custody parenting time and child support matter.
Deputy, as I understand -- I left the
courtroom when Ms. MacDonald was demanding a copy
of yesterday's record from my court reporter and
demanding that the discussion be on the record.
We simply left the courtroom and I understand some
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things occurred and I've asked you to tell her to
come back into the courtroom. Is she coming back
in?
DEPUTY GONDER: She was down at the end of
the hallway, Judge. She's coming back now. It
just takes a second to walk down.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Off the record.)
THE COURT: Okay. Ms. MacDonald and her
client have returned to the courtroom. We are on
the record, Ms. MacDonald. I left the courtroom
as you were entering into a discussion with my
court reporter about things on the record and
demanding a copy of the transcript or a recording
or something from yesterday, and I understand some
things happened, and you were attempting to take
photographs or something of the courtroom. And
you know, as an attorney, licensed to practice in
the state of Minnesota, there is no recording or
picture taking or videoing of any court
proceedings in the courtroom. The official record
is the transcribed record by the court reporter.
So we're going to proceed here with day two
of the custody parenting time and child support
case. And --
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MS. MACDONALD: Your Honor?
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald.
MS. MACDONALD: Can I make a motion?
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, you may.
MS. MACDONALD: Can I make a motion?
THE COURT: Yes, you may.
MS. MACDONALD: Well, yesterday in court we
were not off the record at all. And this morning,
you know, it's supposed to start at 9:00 and we
weren't off the record either. And I'm making a
motion that you restore your -- the kids to Ms.
Grazzini and restore all of her property. And
also, I put you on notice of a Federal lawsuit,
and you were going to hold us in default if we --
and forcing us to proceed. I'd like you to recuse
yourself. And also yesterday, all of the facts
were brought forth to you that this was a wrongful
taking and so I'd like you to immediately restore
to Ms. Grazzini her five children and her
property, all of her property, and free her up
from the no-contact, third-party incarceration
order. And I think you heard enough -- you should
have heard enough facts yesterday to -- to -- to
do this. So, I'm asking you to, again, restore
her, you know -- you heard enough yesterday --
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restore her children to her and her property and
to acknowledge or, you know -- I notified you two
days ago that we filed a Federal civil lawsuit
against you, under the civil rights -- under 1983,
1985. And so, you have to recuse yourself, and
restore -- so, I'm asking you to do that. Thank
you.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, Ms. MacDonald, we
have previously had these discussions. This is
what this trial is about is who's going to have
custody and parenting time and when, and what the
schedule will be, what child support will be paid.
That's what this hearing is all about, and that's
why we're here. That's why we want to bring an
end to this. We want to try to restore some
stability to this family, and that's what this
hearing is for. And for you to just simply say
restore her children and her property, well,
that's not going to happen. We're going to do it
according to the Rules of Law and according to the
law of the state of Minnesota. With respect -- so
that's denied at this time.
With respect to you notifying me that I've
been made a party to some Federal lawsuit for
civil rights violations, I'm not aware of that. I
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have no information about it. I'm not concerned
about that. We're going to proceed to resolve
this matter for these parties and we're going to
continue with this hearing here today.
MS. MACDONALD: Can I just say I made you
aware of it.
THE COURT: Yes, you did.
MS. MACDONALD: I wrote a letter to you
yesterday. I thought we were on the record when I
told you, did you get my letter? And you said,
yes. Was that part on the record yesterday?
THE COURT: I don't know. It might have
been.
MS. MACDONALD: It was in open court.
THE COURT: Well, then it probably was. But,
yes, I admit that. You told me. I admitted that
I received a letter. You informed me that you had
served me with some 300-million dollar Federal
lawsuit about something and served -- or going to
file against something personally -- but I'm not
going to hold that against your client or
prejudice your client based on something that you
do. So, we're going to proceed and this matter is
going to be determined according to the law and
the facts that are presented. And today is the
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second day that we have the opportunity to
continue this matter and to present those facts.
So that's what we're going to do today.
MS. MACDONALD: Well, I notified you
yesterday that it had been filed.
THE COURT: And I told you -- I told you
yesterday that that's irrelevant as far as I'm
concerned.
MS. MACDONALD: But it concerns you. A civil
rights complaint class action 42 U.S.C. 1983, 1985
against you personally, and individual John and
Mary Does 1 through 20, and it's on behalf of
Sandra and her kids and those similarly situated.
I -- I -- I thought that would be on the record
and now I'm wondering because yesterday -- or I
was told that she didn't record all of yesterday.
Nothing was off the record. I just want to get --
THE COURT: Everything was on the record
yesterday. I'm sure that was on the record
yesterday. I admit that that was on the record
yesterday. I admit that I received that letter.
I admit you told me that yesterday. And now
you're telling me that again today. And you're
doing this for the sole reason to delay these
proceedings and to further complicate the issues
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in this case and to further prejudice these five
children, and I'm not going to allow that to
happen. We're going to continue with this today.
We're going to focus on these five children.
We're not going to worry about other things that
are happening outside of the facts of this case.
So we're going to proceed and then you can pursue
whatever remedies you wish following this trial.
You've known about this case since last June. So,
Ms. Elliott, your next witness.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor. We call
Julie Friedrich to the stand.
JULIE FRIEDRICH
After having been duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: For the record, please state your
full name and spell your first and last name.
THE WITNESS: My name is Julie Friedrich,
J-u-l-i-e, F-r-i-e-d-r-i-c-h.
THE CLERK: Thank you.
THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Ms. Friedrich, you were the Guardian ad Litem --
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the former Guardian ad Litem for these -- the five
children in this matter, is that correct?
A Correct.
Q When were you appointed Guardian ad Litem?
A I was appointed on July 14th of 2011.
Q And when did you last serve as Guardian ad Litem
for the children?
A I was dismissed from this case on May 17th of
2013.
Q Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
THE CLERK: Exhibits 12 and 13 are marked for
identification.
(Whereupon, Exhibits Numbers 12 and 13 were
marked for identification.)
MS. ELLIOTT: And for the parties and the
Court, this is Exhibit 106 in our book.
MS. MACDONALD: Your Honor, I'm going to
state for the record, again, I object to these
proceedings. There's no evidence of jurisdiction
and I also object to that document. We did get
that objection -- notice of objection because it's
completely hearsay. And this witness -- I'm
objecting to this witness. She is not a witness
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to anything, so I'm objecting.
THE COURT: Okay. The objection is noted and
the objection is overruled. The statute is clear
and we'll proceed.
MS. MACDONALD: I also want to state for the
record that your order specifically had this woman
just to work on parenting time and how it imploded
to a loss of her entire property and children
is -- is beyond me. So I'm putting on the record
that she was only supposed to do her job of --
of -- if she even had authorization to deal with
parenting time and that was you that gave her
those directives, and you alone, and that's all
she was supposed to do. So I just want to put
that on the record.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. You're
welcome to make those points with the witness
through your cross-examination.
MS. MACDONALD: I'm not making -- You're the
Judge. I want to make the points to you.
THE COURT: Right. You're welcome to make --
MS. MACDONALD: And the guardian's attorney
just said we were the petitioner.
THE COURT: Okay. We'll proceed.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.
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BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Ms. Friedrich, I'm showing you what has been
marked as Exhibit 12. Can you look through this
stack of documents and identify it for the Court.
A This looks like several of the reports if not all
of the reports that I filed regarding parenting
time in this case.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, we would offer
Exhibit 12.
THE COURT: Okay. And, Ms. MacDonald?
MS. MACDONALD: Objection. Objection,
relevance, foundation, everything. And I want a
copy of that. Where is that?
MS. ELLIOTT: It's 106 in our book.
MS. MACDONALD: Okay.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
Exhibit 12 is received.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 12 was received in
evidence.)
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Ms. Friedrich, I'm showing you now what's been
marked as Exhibit 13. Can you identify that for
the Court.
A The very first document -- the second document
looks to be like my Notice of Motion and Motion
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and my affidavit when I requested to be dismissed
from this matter. It goes on. There's letters
from the children, the two children I believe who
are missing. There are, it looks like, excerpts
and blogs from what I know to be the Carver County
Corruption website.
Q Were those attachments to your motion to be
dismissed from this case?
A Yes. I don't know that Exhibit B -- I think that
they attached all of the blog. And I referenced
the ones that I believed were threatening or
referred to me in my affidavit. But I think they
attached them all so that the Court could see
where they were taken from.
Q Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: We would offer Exhibit 13.
MS. MACDONALD: Objection. Hearsay,
irrelevant. This woman is not even a guardian.
She -- I asked that she be removed and she decided
that she objected to that, got an attorney, then
she removes herself after I spent hours helping my
client to get her removed, she's been complained
about, so I'm objecting to that piece of evidence.
THE COURT: Okay. What is 13? What
number --
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MS. ELLIOTT: It's the second half of 106. I
just separated the document.
MS. MACDONALD: Starting where?
THE COURT: We need to know where.
MS. ELLIOTT: There should be a piece of
paper dividing them. It starts with the Notice of
Motion and Motion of the Guardian ad Litem.
THE COURT: Okay. Do you want to point that
out to Ms. MacDonald?
MS. MACDONALD: The pages aren't numbered.
How many pages is that document single spaced?
MS. ELLIOTT: Single spaced.
MS. MACDONALD: How many pages is that
document completely?
MS. ELLIOTT: This is the motion that was
filed in the court.
MS. MACDONALD: I just want to get for the
record how many pages this giant thousand-page --
is -- that I'm expected to cross-examine a witness
on. I just want to get that for the record. How
many pages is this?
MS. ELLIOTT: I haven't counted them.
MS. MACDONALD: Well, let's count them.
MS. ELLIOTT: I can have my legal assistant
count them while I'm doing the rest of my direct
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if that's okay with the Court?
THE COURT: That's fine. Exhibit 13 is
received. Objections are overruled.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 13 was received in
evidence.)
MS. MACDONALD: Mine is Exhibit 106. The one
I have is Exhibit 106. It doesn't say Exhibit 13.
THE COURT: Correct, because they've been --
MS. MACDONALD: Now I'm debilitated again
because I don't even see what that exhibit is. I
have Exhibit 106.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, Ms. Elliott
provided you a courtesy copy of all of the
exhibits that she was going to use in this case.
And as we go through the trial, the documents are
presented to my Clerk of Court and they are marked
for the court exhibit numbers, not according to
any other numbers. So she apparently is taking
Exhibit 106 from your book there in front of you,
the first part is marked as Exhibit 12 for entry
into the court record. The second part is marked
as Exhibit 13 for entry into the court record.
She just showed you physically where the dividing
point is of that exhibit.
MS. MACDONALD: So can I have a copy of the
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court exhibit?
THE COURT: You have a copy of the court
exhibit.
MS. MACDONALD: I don't. I just have a copy
of what she gave me.
MS. ELLIOTT: Which is a copy.
THE COURT: It's the same thing.
MS. MACDONALD: How do I know?
THE COURT: It's just marked with a Court
Exhibit Number.
MS. MACDONALD: How do I know it's the same
thing?
THE COURT: Because that's what she told us.
That's what she's presented to us. That's what
she's presented to you.
MS. MACDONALD: But her exhibit says 106 and
now it's two exhibits split and she doesn't even
have them numbered.
THE COURT: Correct. That's how evidence
comes into a court. They get numbered when they
are presented. That's how it works. Okay. Ms.
Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. MACDONALD: So, then now I need to -- I
want to -- I need to mark these. Because I can't
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do this. I'm debilitated right now. I am looking
at something that isn't even there. I don't --
it's a different thing. I'm looking at something
-- I'm debilitated right now, that's all I'm
saying. I would like to split this up because I'm
not -- did you -- Did you split this up and now
the B is the second exhibit?
MS. ELLIOTT: No, I just showed you where the
second exhibit started.
MS. MACDONALD: Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: It starts at the Notice of
Motion and Motion.
(Whereupon, the court reporter interrupted
due to the attorneys not speaking loud enough to
make a record.)
THE COURT: Okay. We're on the record, we
need to maintain a record. We can't talk over
each other and we need to talk loud enough so the
court reporter can hear. So --
MS. ELLIOTT: For the record, Your Honor,
what I did is, my Exhibit 106 in the book of the
exhibits I was planning to introduce, I split it
in two. The first exhibit, which the Court has
now marked as Exhibit 12 as a trial exhibit, are
all of the reports of the Guardian ad Litem, Julie
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Friedrich.
Exhibit 13 is Julie Friedrich's Notice of
Motion and Motion of the Guardian ad Litem, her
affidavit and all of the attachments that were
filed with the Court along with her motion.
MS. MACDONALD: I'm noting for the record,
her book has a divider, a blue divider. I don't
have the blue divider in my book and I don't know
that the Court even has a blue divider.
THE COURT: I have a white divider.
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have a blue divider.
THE COURT: Ms. Elliott, could you show where
it's divided.
MS. ELLIOTT: I did show Ms. MacDonald where
the separation was between Exhibit 12 and 13 and I
will do so again.
MS. MACDONALD: Can we at least number the
pages of the exhibit?
THE COURT: No. We're not going to number
the pages.
MS. ELLIOTT: And, in fact, Your Honor, I
will give her my blue divider -- I will give her
my exhibit if she wants so she will know where the
division is.
MS. MACDONALD: I'm asking the number of
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pages because we'll be doing this all day. She's
just pointing to something and I'm going to need
the pages numbered. It just makes more sense to
me. Is that okay that we number the pages?
MS. ELLIOTT: The Exhibit 13 has a 134 pages.
A VOICE: Hundred-twenty-four.
MS. ELLIOTT: A hundred-twenty-four pages.
MS. MACDONALD: This says Exhibit 106, so
does Exhibit 13 have that many pages?
MS. ELLIOTT: Exhibit 13 has 124 pages.
MS. MACDONALD: She didn't count Exhibit 13.
She counted your book.
MS. ELLIOTT: For the record, Rita Martin, my
legal assistant, counted the pages on the document
marked Exhibit 13 for trial.
MS. MACDONALD: But she didn't count the
pages in that exhibit. That's not Exhibit 14
(sic) that's in your book. We want her to count
that one, the one the Court's supposed to get.
THE COURT: We don't need --
MS. MACDONALD: And I'd like a copy of it. I
want a copy of it.
THE COURT: You have a copy of it. We're
going to proceed here, okay?
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have a copy of it.
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THE COURT: You do have a copy of it.
MS. MACDONALD: No, I don't. I don't have a
copy of the exhibit that just got entered.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have a copy of it
because it just got entered and nobody made a copy
for me.
THE COURT: You have a copy right in front of
you.
MS. ELLIOTT: I provided counsel with a copy.
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have a copy in front
of me. It's over there. I'm just debilitated
completely.
THE COURT: Okay. Ms. Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.
MS. MACDONALD: Your Honor, can I have the
witness count the pages of the exhibit?
THE COURT: No. Ms. Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Ms. Friedrich, do the reports summarize all of the
work that you did in this matter regarding the
Rucki children?
A Yes.
Q And do they reflect any of the difficulties that
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you had in maintaining or obtaining contact with
these children?
A Yes, the reports reflect that as well as the
affidavit when I requested my dismissal.
Q And why did you request to be dismissed from this
case?
A I requested a dismissal in this case because it
got to the point where I didn't feel as though I
could advocate for the best interests of the
children due to false information that was
provided to them.
Q And what information was that?
A It's quite copious, and I can go through my
affidavit. What I remember off the top of my head
is that the children were told things that I had
said or done that were not true that compromised
my ability to have rapport with them and to
advocate for them. And some of the things I can
remember without even looking at my reports or my
notes are that the child, Samantha, had been told
that -- had been told that I called her fat. I
was told that I had forced Samantha to take a
pregnancy test. I was informed that I had
diagnosed the children with mental health issues.
I was told that I had recommended and/or ordered
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the children to be on anti-depressants. I was
informed that I had been wandering the halls of
Lakeville spreading rumors that one of the
children, Samantha, was in juvie. I was told that
I had informed the children that the mother did
not want them anymore; that she would not get
them; that she would not have contact with them;
that she was in Philadelphia; that she was in a
mental health ward; that she was homeless.
All of these things are things that I believe
the children were told that are completely false.
I was informed that I was prescribing where the
children would receive dental care, medical care,
what extracurricular activities they would be in,
what church they would go to. It goes on.
Q So none of that information is correct?
A None of it.
Q Do you know where this information came from to
the children?
A I believe the information came from the mother to
the children.
Q Did you find dad to be cooperative in your role as
Guardian ad Litem?
A Yes.
Q Did you find mother to be cooperative in your role
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as Guardian ad Litem?
A No.
Q Besides the examples that you've already given,
how else was mother uncooperative?
A The first clear incident where the mother was
uncooperative was the day that I was doing home
visits at all three schools with all five
children. And upon arriving to the first school,
I was informed that both of those children were
home sick. When I arrived at the second school,
that was the high school, I was informed that the
mother had called the school and informed the
school that I did not have authorization to visit
with the child, Nico; that I did not have proper
identification and that her attorney, Lisa Henry,
had advised her not to allow me to visit the
children. So when I was at the high school, I had
some difficulty, despite the fact that I did have
proper identification, proper paperwork, and the
authority to visit with the children. I had some
difficulty getting that visit started. There was
drama. There was a juvenile officer there, the
principal, the office administration, everybody
got involved and it delayed my getting started
with my visit with Nico.
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At the elementary school, the same series of
events happened, but I was expecting it, so I had
everything I needed and I had also called Lisa
Henry between the visits and asked her, did you
advise your client to tell the schools that I
don't have authority to visit these children? And
Lisa Henry said, absolutely not. You're the
guardian. You have a right to visit these
children. Please visit these children.
So at the elementary school I was meeting
with the two youngest children and I was meeting
with them together because Ms. Grazzini had
requested that I not meet with Gino alone.
Actually she told me that it was the doctor's
recommendation. When I checked that out with the
doctor, that wasn't true either. But, Ms.
Grazzini burst into my meeting with the two
youngest children and was very emotional and
dramatic and was screaming out loud, crying and
gesturing, saying: Please, don't take my babies.
Please don't take my babies, in front of the two
children. Who, as Ms. MacDonald correctly pointed
out, I don't have the authority to take children.
Q And had you ever recommended that the children be
taken from Ms. Grazzini-Rucki?
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A Never.
Q Were there any other reasons that you requested to
be removed as a Guardian ad Litem?
A I'm briefly looking through my affidavit. There's
other allegations that were made that just weren't
true. The number of false allegations -- I don't
know that each one is, alone, relevant. But I
became aware of the Carver County Corruption blog
and was alerted that there were some things on
there that could be conceived as threatening. And
one of the -- when it began to talk about me
personally, my alleged mental health issues, my
career being threatened, when it began to talk
about my children and my family, I decided that it
was time for me to get off of this case. In
addition to not being able advocate for the
children, I began to feel personally threatened.
Q What is the Carver County Corruption blog?
A I'm not sure. But it's -- my understanding, it's
a group of people that are -- feel that there is
corruption in the courts and only those people can
talk about that corruption on that site. It's a
site that I don't believe is fact based, but
people can anonymously post things.
Q Did you ever see anything about the Rucki children
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on that website?
A Yes.
Q What was on that website about the Rucki children?
A Several articles, just blogs in general, people
talking about the guardian, the Judge, the -- Dr.
Gilbertson, Dr. Reitman, other judges that they
were unhappy with. But when I read the comment:
I have a three-cent solution for these people, I
took that as a personal threat and I decided it's
time for me to get off this case.
Q Had Ms. Grazzini-Rucki made complaints against you
to your employer?
A Yes, several.
Q And are those contained in your reports as well
and your motion to withdraw?
A I don't know that those are contained. I mean, we
had meetings. She met with my boss, my boss's
boss, the Guardian ad Litem program director of
the whole state. I mean, there were meetings. I
don't know that I referenced those complaints in
my affidavit or my reports. But some of these
allegations were made to me and to my boss during
these meetings.
Q The false allegations that you had testified to
earlier?
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A Yes.
MS. ELLIOTT: I have nothing further. Thank
you, Ms. Friedrich.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Could you please make sure that what I have from
Lisa Elliott matches what you have, and could you
count the pages of the documents --
A You want me to count?
Q -- the pages of that exhibit? Are there two
exhibits?
A You want me to count Exhibit 12?
Q Are there two exhibits?
A Yeah, exactly what --
Q Are there two exhibits here? And then I need to
know if it matches exactly what I've been given.
A So you want to start with Exhibit 12 and we'll
just compare page to page? How do you want to do
that?
Q If you could just -- I guess you can't number
those because they are already --
A They're numbered. They're numbered. So this is
November 1, 2011 and you have that right there on
top (indicating). And that is -- correct.
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Q Well, mine aren't numbered.
A Your pages are numbered. It's just the first
page -- so the first report is 14 pages.
Q So can you see if what I have is the same as what
you have? The first 14 pages?
A I believe it was photocopied, so you'd have to
flip through while I flip through if you want to
do it that way.
Q I want you to look through it and make sure it's
accurate.
MR. JERABEK: Your Honor, directing a witness
to look through it is inappropriate cross-
examination.
MS. ELLIOTT: As an Officer of the Court, I
can state for the record that the copy that Ms.
MacDonald was provided is an exact copy except for
the blue dividers of the copy that I have in my
book and the copy that is now Exhibits 12 and 13.
THE COURT: Okay. Objection is sustained.
Would you like to ask her questions?
MS. MACDONALD: I'd like -- maybe she could
count the pages and --
THE COURT: Ms. Friedrich -- Ms. Friedrich,
could you just look at the document that Ms.
MacDonald provided you and tell us if that's the
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same exhibit in front of you?
THE WITNESS: Exhibit 12, this is thicker, so
let's see where it ends -- and there is a blank
page after that, so this is what I have as
Exhibit 12 (indicating). Ms. Elliott's indicating
it was a photocopy, and so I can tell you that
this is the report from November 1st. And I think
I told you it was 14 pages, so there's the 14
pages from the November 1st report, that's yours.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Can you go through each page and make sure it's
the same?
MS. ELLIOTT: I'm going to object to that,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: Objection sustained. She's not
going to do that. She's testified that that's the
same report. It was photocopied. It's presented
to you. It was provided to you yesterday. You've
had a copy of those reports for months, if not
years. So, do you have any questions for this
witness?
MS. MACDONALD: Well, I haven't had a copy
for years or months of this report. The one that
I have -- well, the one that is marked Exhibit 106
I just got from Ms. Elliott.
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THE COURT: Okay.
MS. MACDONALD: So the -- I mean, the --
without a copy of what's actually going into
evidence and marked, how am I to know that this
106 split up like this, and she had a blue sheet
in it, is the same one that you're going to get?
THE WITNESS: Would it expedite matters to
just copy this and --
THE COURT: No, we're not going to do that
because that's what she has.
MS. MACDONALD: It isn't what I have.
THE COURT: It's exactly what you have.
MS. MACDONALD: It's not exactly -- then --
then I need you to look at it and tell me that
it's exactly what I have. What I have is
something with holes in it marked 106. It's not
-- I had a big book, giant book.
THE COURT: Then go page by page as Ms.
Friedrich initially recommended. Why don't you do
that right now?
MS. MACDONALD: Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I'm just going to
object to this line of questioning as it's clearly
a tactic to delay.
(Whereupon, the court reporter interrupted
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due to an overlapping discussion amongst the
parties.)
THE COURT: Okay. Listen, we're on the
record. You, Ms. MacDonald, were so concerned
about the record. Don't talk unless we're on the
record and that only one other person is talking.
Okay? All right. Do you have the separate
documents? Ms. MacDonald, what do you want to do?
THE WITNESS: This starts right here
(indicating). So this is what I was showing you
as my first report -- report, November 1, 2011.
It is 14 pages. So you have 14 pages?
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q The one I have is not signed by Ms. Friedrich?
A That's because it was emailed. But the copy that
is filed with the Court is signed.
Q Then that isn't the actual copy of what the Court
got. I don't know if --
A It's exactly the same. This one is exactly the
same.
Q How do I know on behalf of Ms. Grazzini that it is
exactly the same?
A Because an Officer of the Court just testified
that this is the same. She provided you the same
copy as the exhibit.
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Q But the one I have isn't even signed.
A It's the same as this (indicating).
Q But you didn't sign that one and you didn't sign
mine. So where is the signed copy?
A The signed copy is filed with the Court.
THE COURT: Ms. Friedrich, do you want to
sign her copy?
THE WITNESS: Can I have a pen?
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Can you please read it before you sign it and make
sure it's exactly the same?
A Yeah, I'll look at it.
Q Not compare it with mine, read it.
A Why don't we just do both steps, because I could
look at this and this (indicating) and make sure
it's the same and sign them both?
Q Okay.
A All right.
MS. ELLIOTT: Ms. Friedrich, just for the
record, will you just note which report you're
signing -- which reports you are signing, the date
and how many pages they are?
THE WITNESS: The one I'm looking at right
now is November 1, 2011, filed and signed with the
Court but emailed to the parties, so there's not a
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signature because it was emailed. It's 14 pages.
And right now I'm looking -- even though you've
testified it's a copy -- The exhibit and Ms.
MacDonald's copy appear to be the same and I will
sign both. (Signing)
MS. MACDONALD: And I just want to state for
the record that isn't my copy. It's Ms. Elliott's
copy.
THE WITNESS: And I'm going to keep going?
MS. MACDONALD: I'd like to mark that as an
exhibit, what she just signed, both of those that
she actually signed.
THE COURT: Okay.
THE WITNESS: Exhibit 12 is marked.
MS. MACDONALD: The two that you just looked
through.
THE WITNESS: Exhibit 12 is one of the two.
This was the copy that of was provided to you by
Ms. Elliott.
THE COURT: Okay. I'm going to instruct the
Court Clerk to go over there, to intact all of the
exhibits, the documents, so that we have a clear
set and we know what was marked as an exhibit and
what is -- the documents presented by Ms.
MacDonald. Can we get that done right now?
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MS. ELLIOTT: Perhaps what we could do is
mark each of the separate reports like 12a, 12b of
the actual exhibit?
THE COURT: No. No. We're just marking them
as Ms. MacDonald is requesting.
MS. ELLIOTT: Okay.
THE COURT: But I want to be clear what you
have offered to the Court. So if you could come
up here with Ms. MacDonald and I want that clipped
so that the papers cannot be separated.
MS. MACDONALD: The witness also said that
she -- she has a signed one that she sent to you,
so I think I would like to see that.
THE COURT: We're going to go off the record,
while we figure out what was Exhibit 13 --
MS. MACDONALD: I want to stay on the record,
Your Honor.
THE COURT: Well, then if we're going to stay
on the record people are not going to whisper.
We're going to talk out loud and we're going to
talk one person at a time.
Now, Ms. Elliott, what did you offer as
Exhibit 12?
MS. ELLIOTT: Exhibit 12 includes all of the
reports of the Guardian ad Litem. It includes one
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report dated November 1, 2011, which is 14 pages.
It includes a report dated January 19, 2012, which
is 19 pages. It includes --
THE WITNESS: It's been signed.
MS. ELLIOTT: And it is signed. It includes
a report of Guardian ad Litem dated March 7, 2012,
which is ten pages but it is not signed, but
received by email from Ms. Friedrich to Lisa Henry
and myself. And Lisa Henry was the attorney for
Sandra Grazzini-Rucki at the time. The next
report is dated April 30, 2012, and it is ten
pages long, again, not signed, received by email
and cc'd to myself and Lisa Henry. That is
Exhibit 12. Exhibit 13 --
THE COURT: Stop there. Do you have Ms.
MacDonald's exhibit, documents that she presented
so we can clarify that the documents that were
provided to Ms. MacDonald are the same as
Exhibit 12?
MS. ELLIOTT: Do you want me to go through
them?
THE WITNESS: I just went through as she went
through and made sure each of the reports was
dated the same.
THE COURT: And are they the same?
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THE WITNESS: And it was the same page
numbers.
THE COURT: Okay. Do we have those clipped
together for her so she can figure out what
consists of Exhibit 12?
MS. ELLIOTT: So let the record reflect that
I am now clipping together the exhibit, the copy
of Exhibit 12 that I had previously provided to
Ms. MacDonald that I had marked in my exhibit book
as 106. And I am providing that --
THE COURT: But it's only a portion of your
Exhibit 106.
MS. ELLIOTT: It's only a portion of our
Exhibit 106.
THE COURT: But it accurately and completely
reflects the documents that are contained in
Exhibit 12?
MS. ELLIOTT: That is correct, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Provide those to Ms.
MacDonald. Ms. MacDonald, there's your copy of
Exhibit 12. Okay. Exhibit 13?
MS. ELLIOTT: Exhibit 13 is a full and
complete copy of the Guardian ad Litem's Notice of
Motion and Motion of the Guardian ad Litem
dated -- signed and dated May 3, 2013. And this
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is her motion to be removed as the Guardian ad
Litem. It includes her -- the affidavit of Julie
A. Friedrich, which is eight pages and then it
includes -- the remaining pages are exhibits to
that affidavit in support of her motion. All of
this was filed with the Court on May 10, 2013 and
all parties had been provided copies.
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: And, Ms. Friedrich, I
believe -- did you go through the copy of
Exhibit 13 which in my book was the second half of
Exhibit 106 that I just described to the Court?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
MS. ELLIOTT: And are they the same?
THE WITNESS: I believe -- I don't have any
reason to believe they are not the same.
THE COURT: Okay. Are they clipped together
now?
THE WITNESS: This one needs a clip, Ms.
MacDonald's copy from Ms. Elliott (indicating).
MS. MACDONALD: Ms. Elliott just said that
was a copy of what was in her book and it's still
not the exhibit because I just learned that Ms.
Friedrich sent something to you that was signed so
that isn't what she sent.
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THE COURT: Okay. Provide those to Ms.
MacDonald. That, Ms. MacDonald, what's being
provided to you is what you previously received.
It's the second half of Exhibit 106 from the
Respondent's attorney's notebook which is --
consists of the documents contained in the
Exhibit 13. Okay. Do you have both Exhibits 12
and 13 in front of you, Ms. Friedrich?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, do you have any
further questions for this witness?
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have the -- her
exhibit in front of me.
THE COURT: Yes, you do.
MS. MACDONALD: No, I have something marked
106, so I just want to state that for the record.
THE COURT: There is only one copy of an
exhibit. There is only one exhibit. You have a
copy of that exhibit. There is only one exhibit.
That comes into the court record. But you have an
exact copy of that exhibit. Okay? Now, do you
have any questions?
MS. MACDONALD: I don't have an exact copy of
that exhibit because she just marked it and is
proceeding -- now you're telling me that my 106 --
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or she is -- is identical?
THE COURT: Okay.
MS. MACDONALD: So I need to look at that
exhibit as I cross-examine her.
THE COURT: Okay. Do you have any questions
for her?
MS. MACDONALD: Yes.
THE COURT: Okay. You may proceed.
MS. MACDONALD: Can I look at her exhibit and
question her from that exhibit?
THE COURT: You may.
MS. MACDONALD: On Page 14 --
THE COURT: Now, the witness, Ms. MacDonald,
in any case -- if you're asking her to look at
anything that's what has to come in to the court
record, because we don't know what she's looking
at now. Okay? So, the witness needs to have the
exhibit, that's how it works in the court when
you're presenting testimony.
MS. MACDONALD: I know, but I cannot --
THE COURT: Then you're going to have to
stand up next to the witness, I guess. If that's
the document you're going to use and not rely on
the document that you have a copy of.
MS. MACDONALD: But then I'm not able to take
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notes or talk with my client.
THE COURT: That's -- you can handle this any
way you want, but the only thing that this witness
is going to testify from is the exhibit that has
been marked and it's going to be recorded and
entered into the record here.
MS. MACDONALD: It's already been entered
into the record.
THE COURT: Yes, and so she needs to testify
to something that's in the record, not something
that's not in the record. You know this as an
Officer of the Court. You know this as an
attorney practicing law. So I would ask that you
step up, if you want to ask her directly from the
document that's marked as an exhibit, that you
step up next to the witness and ask her those
questions or rely on the exact copy that's been
provided to you.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Let me ask the witness, this report was dated
November 1, 2011?
A Correct.
Q So that was -- how many months ago was that?
A Well, it was 2011. So November 2011, so almost
two years ago.
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Q Exactly how many months?
A Twenty-one.
Q Twenty-one months. And you're saying this report
was provided to whom? Provided to the Court?
A It was filed with the Court and it was emailed to
the attorneys. At the time it was Linda Olup and
Lisa Elliott.
Q And where -- where does your record show that
there was an email to Lisa Elliott and Linda --
Lisa Elliott?
MR. JERABEK: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. Next question.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Do you have something in your file that indicates
that this report was provided to Lisa Elliott?
MR. JERABEK: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained. Next question.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Do you have anything in your file that supports
your assertion that this reported Guardian ad
Litem was emailed to Ms. Grazzini's attorney,
Linda Olup?
MR. JERABEK: Objection, relevance.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
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Q Now, I'm noticing on Page 14 -- wait a minute.
This document was not provided to Ms. Sandra
Grazzini-Rucki, was it?
MR. JERABEK: Objection, relevance, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: I'm going to overrule that
objection. She can answer that question.
THE WITNESS: When parties have attorneys we
provide the copy of the report to the attorney and
it would be the attorney's responsibility. When
we went through the hearing, nobody represented on
November 8th that they hadn't received a copy and
hadn't been able to review it. So nobody has
maintained that they didn't receive a copy or that
they received a copy that was not an exact copy.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q So my question is, I mean, on November 1, 2011,
did you provide a copy of this 14-page single
spaced document to Ms. Grazzini-Rucki?
A I provided it to her attorney.
Q But my question is: Did you provide a copy to Ms.
Sandra Grazzini-Rucki?
MR. JERABEK: Objection, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Overruled. You may answer.
THE WITNESS: I did not directly or
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personally provide a copy to Ms. Grazzini. It's
her attorney's responsibility to share that and
Ms. Grazzini did not represent on November 8th
that she did not get a copy or that she did not
have access to the report. There were no concerns
presented 21 months ago.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q And do you have a calendar in front of you for the
year 2011?
A No.
MS. MACDONALD: Your Honor, I need a calendar
that shows 2011, a 2011 calendar.
THE COURT: That's up to you.
MS. MACDONALD: I have a diary here, but I
don't have a 2011 calendar. Does anyone have a
2011 calendar? I want to figure out what day
November 1 was.
MS. ELLIOTT: Objection, Your Honor,
relevance.
THE COURT: It's your opportunity to
cross-examine her. This is your case. We can't
try your case for you. You have to try it
yourself, so if you anticipated that that's what
you were going to do, you needed to be prepared to
do that. So, next question.
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MS. MACDONALD: Can I take a break to go get
a 2011 calendar.
THE COURT: We'll take our 15-minute morning
break at this time.
(Recess taken)
THE COURT: All right. We took a break. Ms.
MacDonald wanted a calendar. What -- What's
happened since then, Deputy?
DEPUTY MELTON: Sergeant Christopher Melton,
Dakota County Sheriff's Office. This morning
before court convened, Ms. MacDonald was seen
taking photographs of the courtroom. To expedite
the court process we waited until a break for her
to get a misdemeanor citation. After giving her
the citation she was going to be released. I went
up to her during break, told her she was under
arrest for the offense of Contempt of Court, told
her she was not going to be handcuffed, we just
needed to get her name, date of birth and address
for the ticket and she'd be released. She has
refused. She is still refusing.
THE COURT: Okay. Well, we want to proceed
here with the trial, and I presume that she will
remain under the jurisdiction of the Sheriff's
department until she complies with your procedures
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and your requests.
DEPUTY MELTON: Correct. And, for the
record, as soon as she gives me her full name,
date of birth and address, I will give her her
citation, and she will be released. I will take
her camera as evidence and have it examined to see
and verify that pictures were taken in the
courtroom. But as soon as she gives me the
information she will be released.
THE COURT: Okay. And we can wait for that
until we conclude these proceedings?
DEPUTY MELTON: Correct.
THE COURT: Okay. All right. Then, Ms.
MacDonald, I notice that there's nothing in front
of you. All your boxes have been removed and your
client is no longer seated beside you. How do you
want to proceed here?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald? Ms. MacDonald,
how would you like to proceed here?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: Okay. Well, there's no response
from Ms. MacDonald, and her clients have -- her
client has vacated along with all of the
supporters that were in the courtroom. And all of
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Ms. MacDonald's papers and boxes of files and
materials have been removed from the courtroom. I
don't know why. I don't know what caused this.
This matter is going to proceed either with our
without the participation of the Petitioner who
has absented herself from this hearing. We're
going to proceed under the Minnesota Rule 307
allowing the Court to proceed. And, Ms.
MacDonald, you're welcome to participate or not
participate, however you wish. You're welcome to
remain -- you're welcome to remain in the
courtroom if you wish. You're welcome to go with
the deputies if you wish. But we're going to
proceed in this matter and with this hearing. So
what would you like to do?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, you have an
obligation to your client. Do you want to
participate in these proceedings and proceed? Do
you want to remain seated in the courtroom or
would you like to go with the deputies?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: All right. Then, Ms. MacDonald,
having received no response from you, we're going
to proceed and we'll just allow you to be seated
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there and you can participate if you so desire.
We have Julie Friedrich on the stand. We're
continuing with her testimony. And, Ms.
Friedrich, you admit you're still under oath?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: And, Ms. MacDonald, you were in
the middle of cross-examining her. Do you wish to
cross-examine any further Ms. Friedrich?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: Okay. Again, receiving no
response, I'll assume that that's a no. And, Mr.
Jerabek?
MR. JERABEK: Thank you, Your Honor.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. JERABEK:
Q Ms. Friedrich, were you ever an individual who
actually determined custody in this case?
A No.
Q And isn't it true as a Guardian ad Litem it's your
responsibility to make certain recommendations
pertaining to the case?
A Yes.
Q But you do not order anything?
A No.
Q And that's the job for the Judge, is that correct?
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A Yes.
Q Are you aware of whether Ms. Grazzini-Rucki ever
indicated that she wanted to give up custody of
the children?
A Yes, I'm aware of a period during my appointment
where she indicated that she wanted to share legal
custody with Mr. Rucki, and that she wanted Mr.
Rucki to have sole physical custody of the
children.
Q And that's all five children?
A Yes.
Q And when was this time period?
A This was during her appointment with Dr. Reitman
and in a phone call to me asking when Mr. Rucki
would come to pick up the children. I don't have
the date right in front of me, but if -- I don't
recall the date of Dr. Reitman's meeting, but I
believe it was in September or July -- August of
2012.
Q Now, in this case, the children ended up in the
third-party care of other individuals. How did
that happen?
A During Ms. Grazzini's meeting with Dr. Reitman,
she not only requested that the children be placed
in the sole physical custody of Mr. Rucki and the
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joint legal custody of the two parties, but she
also at the same time made sexual abuse
allegations against Mr. Rucki. I was concerned
about the two unreconcilable bits of information.
And the attorneys, Ms. Henry and Ms. Elliott,
began talking to the clients about this proposal
and the parties reached an agreement that was
entered on the record through a conference call.
So the parties entered into a stipulation that the
children would be placed with a third party and
that third party was the paternal aunt, Tammy
Love.
Q So just to clarify, the third party taking -- it
appears to be some type of temporary -- temporary
care of the minor children, that was based upon an
agreement made by both parties?
A That's correct.
Q Now, did -- pertaining to the issue of not wanting
the children in her care, did she -- did Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki ever contact you about that issue?
A Shortly after the meeting that Ms. Grazzini had
with Mr. Reitman, I received at least one
voicemail message from Ms. Grazzini asking me when
somebody was going to come pick up these children.
She said if Mr. Rucki would have sole physical
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custody then somebody needs to come get these
kids. So that was in a voicemail to me and that
was between the meeting with Dr. Reitman and the
phone conference with the attorneys and the Judge
when the stipulation was entered.
Q Do you have any other -- any other recommendations
here aside from what is in your report about what
you believe is in the best interests of these
children?
A I've been off the case for quite some time so I've
had no contact with the children or the parties.
I don't believe that I ever got to the point where
I was able to make a permanent parenting time
recommendation. But, by and large, the father
followed all of the recommendations that I made
during my appointment. I think one very important
recommendation that I made that was never followed
by the mother was that she does seek individual
counseling with a therapist who specializes in
personality disorders.
Q Now, although the Court mandated that you would
make a recommendation with regard to permanent
parenting time, isn't it true that you're also
obligated by law under Rule 905 of the Rules of
Guardian ad Litem Procedure to make
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recommendations to the Court that you believe are
in the best interests of the minor children
throughout a proceeding?
A Yes.
MR. JERABEK: Thank you. No further
questions.
THE COURT: Ms. Elliott, anything else?
MS. ELLIOTT: Nothing else, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, any questions?
MS. MACDONALD: I already objected to the
proceedings. I objected to this witness. I'm
sitting here in a wheelchair with no shoes on. My
glasses are gone. My client isn't here. My boxes
are gone. I object to all these proceedings, and
I'm asking again, you know, that the kids be
restored to their mother and all of her property
be restored immediately.
THE COURT: Okay. Ms. MacDonald, I've ruled
on this a number of times. The objection is
overruled. We're going to continue with these
proceedings. I'll give you an opportunity at this
time to comply with the deputy's requests and I'll
also give you an opportunity to call whoever you
believe took all of your boxes and files and
everything else out of this courtroom. I have no
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choice but to believe that that was on your
orders, your instructions; that this matter has
all been orchestrated to disrupt these
proceedings.
So, would you like to make a phone call to
get your property back so we can continue with
this hearing and you can be prepared to defend
your client, represent your client, or should we
just continue here? What would you like to do?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: All right. Ms. Elliott, your
next witness.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, we call David Rucki
to the stand.
THE WITNESS: And, Your Honor, there is
Exhibit 13 still here and the trial notebook. If
you want to leave these here, or?
MS. ELLIOTT: The notebook can stay. I'll
get the --
(Witness excused.)
MS. MACDONALD: Your Honor, can I state for
the record I don't have my glasses and I don't
have a cell phone. They took them.
MS. ELLIOTT: And also Ms. MacDonald had
Exhibit 12 in her possession when I guess all
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of -- everything from her area was removed, so I'm
assuming that Exhibit 12 is with the rest of her
belongings.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, where is
Exhibit 12?
MS. MACDONALD: I just was arrested. The
deputies came out and just took me back there.
THE COURT: Well, what instructions did you
give your --
MS. MACDONALD: None.
THE COURT: -- client?
MS. MACDONALD: I didn't give any
instructions. I was just arrested in the middle
of this.
THE COURT: So why did they remove all your
belongings and your boxes then? Why did they do
that?
MS. MACDONALD: I don't know.
THE COURT: So your office staff just took
all your property and left without any instruction
from you?
MS. MACDONALD: Right.
THE COURT: Okay.
DEPUTY GONDER: Your Honor, if I might. Tim
Gonder, G-o-n-d-e-r, with the Sheriff's Office.
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When Sergeant Melton came in and advised her that
she was going to be cited and released, it was
made very clear that she was going to return to
this courtroom at the completion of his paperwork.
There was no expectation that she would be
detained for any more than a few minutes. And her
cell phone is in her property and it can be
returned to her at a moment's notice. Her shoes
are not on her feet because she refused to put
them on. Her glasses are not on her face because
she refused to put them on. She asked me to put
her shoes and her glasses on. I advised her that
that was her job and she would not do it. The
only reason why she's in a wheelchair is because
she would not even stand up to be a part of these
proceedings. We had to lift her from her seat and
seat her in the chair to get her here. So, there
was no expectation that she was to be gone for
more than a few minutes, so there should be no
reason why her property did not stay in this
courtroom.
THE COURT: Okay. Ms. MacDonald, these are
choices purely made by you and you alone. You can
easily remedy this by complying with the Sheriff's
Department and putting your own shoes on and
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putting your own glasses on, and calling your
office to get the property back.
Ms. Elliott, do you have another copy of
Exhibit 12?
MS. ELLIOTT: I do, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. Friedrich, could we have you
please retake the stand, please?
THE WITNESS: Yes.
THE COURT: We'll have this one marked -- the
missing exhibit is 12? We'll have this marked as
12A.
THE CLERK: Exhibit 12A is marked for
identification.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 12A was marked for
identification.)
MS. ELLIOTT: Okay.
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Ms. Friedrich, I'm showing you what's been marked
as Exhibit 12A. Can you identify that for the
Court?
A This looks like a copy of the reports that were
filed -- copies of the reports that were filed
with the Court. It looks like there is a report
from November 1st, which is 14 pages, a report
from January 19th.
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Q 2012?
A I'm sorry. November 1st is 2011. The next one is
January 19, 2012, and that report is 19 pages.
There is a report of March 7, 2012, and that
report is ten pages, and a report from April 30,
2012, and that report is ten pages.
Q And, Ms. Friedrich, is this document the same as
what was previously marked 12 which is no longer
in the courtroom?
A This exhibit looks the same as Exhibit 12. I have
no reason to believe it's any different than the
original copy.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I would offer
Exhibit 12A.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, any objection?
MS. MACDONALD: I object.
THE COURT: What's your grounds?
MS. MACDONALD: Same grounds.
THE COURT: Objection is overruled
Exhibit 12A is received.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 12A was received
in evidence.)
THE COURT: Ms. Elliott, your next witness.
MS. ELLIOTT: We'd call David Rucki to the
stand.
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THE COURT: Sir, please face the clerk, raise
your right hand to be sworn.
DAVID VICTOR RUCKI
After having been duly sworn, was examined
and testified as follows:
THE CLERK: Please have a seat in the witness
seat. For the record, would you please state your
full name, spell your first and last.
THE WITNESS: David Victor Rucki, D-a-v-i-d,
R-u-c-k-i.
THE COURT: Ms. Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Mr. Rucki, you are the father of five children,
correct?
A Yes, still am.
Q Could you give the Court, you know, a summary of
their names, ages?
A My oldest is Nico, he's now 17. Samantha, 15.
Gianna is 13. Nia is 11. And Gino is ten.
Q Okay. And their mother is Sandra Grazzini-Rucki?
A Correct.
Q Can you tell the Court what sorts of things you
have done with the children when they were growing
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up?
A I would think that -- I would say I'm a typical
dad. I'm involved in every aspect of their lives.
You know, from -- you know, when they are young --
just being a dad, changing diapers. I did get up
in the middle of the night and did feed children,
participated with activities with my kids as
they've grown-up. I went to the dentist with
them. I went to the doctors with them. I would
just think normal activity as a father.
Q Were there any particular activities that you took
a more significant role, any of the extra
curricular things?
A Yeah, you know, I was very involved in the hockey
program out in Lakeville. Sat on the board. I
also coached.
Q You coached your children?
A Yes.
Q Which children?
A Mostly my oldest son, Nico, on the coaching, and
then basically the board stuff.
Q And what -- During the marriage with Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki what was your employment?
A Self-employed. I took over a family trucking
business. I've been in the trucking business --
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grew up in it but started working with my father
in '87.
Q And where was your office?
A It was at the home.
Q And what did Ms. Grazzini-Rucki do?
A Nothing.
Q Did she work at all?
A She was a flight attendant.
Q And what did her schedule consist of?
A She would fly, you know, three to four days a week
on average. She would fly basically like a Monday
through Wednesday, Thursday, be back on weekends.
We had a cabin so we had weekends up at the cabin
with the kids. But initially she flew. Like I
said, three to four days a week she'd fly to
Europe and that was her deal.
Q Would she be gone the entire time from Monday
through Wednesday or Thursday?
A She would leave early in the morning 6:30 or 6:00,
catch the first flight out, 5:00, whatever it was
and she'd be gone that full day, wouldn't fly out
until the evening because the flights were
overnight, and then she'd be gone until, you
know -- it was generally like a four-day window,
even a three-day trip would be a four-day trip
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because of the way the flights came in.
Q And who took care of the kids on the three or four
days when Ms. Grazzini-Rucki was not home?
A That would have been me.
Q Did you have a babysitter at all?
A We had -- when Gino was born -- because of his
health issues it was fairly taxing. We had hired
a girl basically full time, Molly, and she'd come
in early in the morning and she'd stay until 5
o'clock after I'd tried to -- pretty much get done
with work and then I'd take over. But it was kind
of like a full-time job for her.
Q But you were there in the evenings?
A I was always there in the evenings.
Q You didn't have somebody else provide care for the
children?
A No.
Q And so you were in charge of preparing meals?
A Absolutely.
Q Putting the kids to bed?
A Absolutely.
Q Were you up with them in the mornings then, too,
or was Molly there?
A When Molly was there, you know, she'd -- like we'd
have a set time she'd come in. I believe it was
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7-ish, and she'd -- you know, my job tends to
start early in the morning. At that time I was
fairly busy. My phones will start ringing 5:30, 6
o'clock. Sometimes I'd have to be on the job
early but basically we had to kind of wait until
she showed up before I could go.
Q So how long did this schedule stay in place?
A You know, I don't know. Could have been -- I'd
say anywhere from a year to year and a half, not
quite two.
Q Okay. And then what happened? Anything change?
A Well, we didn't need her anymore. Gino got older.
She came in after he was, I'd say over a year old.
We really started having problems at the one-year
mark with him. So, that's when she -- she was
there until maybe the age of three for Gino.
Q Okay. After that did you have any care for the
children during the day?
A No. It was me or her.
Q Okay. And did her flight schedule remain the
same?
A Always has remained the same.
Q Now, you were divorced on May 12th of 2011?
A The day that will live in infamy.
Q Yeah. Prior to that time what was your
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relationship with the children?
A Again, just dad. Nothing unusual. Again, just
very routine. You know, kids are in school, kids
are in sports, kids are in dance, all the
activities that kids do. I was more like a human
bus as a dad. It's entertaining for me to hear
that she participated in the bus service as I call
it, but, no, she was very lacking in that
department. That was me running all the time like
a chicken with his head cut off.
Q Can you describe what the household was like when
all five children were around and Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki was at home not flying?
A There was a vibe in the house. They were very
chaotic, real intense energy. Sandy has that aura
about her. She's -- you know, in the -- I'd say
the later years after 2006 it tended to amplify.
Again, just chaos is a good word.
Q And did that change at all when she was flying
when she was not home?
A It was night and day. Everybody -- it would calm
down. The kids would, you know, actually go to
bed early, 9:00, 9:30. They were out. They were
tired, and the house was quiet.
Q What time would they go to bed when Ms.
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Grazzini-Rucki was home?
A It would just be all night. It would just be
battling kids to go down, 10:00, 10:30, 11:00.
Q Then, in May you were removed from the home, May
of 2011?
A Yes. Unceremonial.
Q And what -- how did that change your contact or
relationship with the children at that point?
A At that point it pretty much just shut it off.
She started using law enforcement to keep me away
from the house. And within a week, the first
order started coming after she filed some sort of
restraining order, and it just got worse after
that.
Q When was the first time you saw your children
after May of 2011?
A The first time was at court this year. I don't
know the dates. I average about three times a
month in court. So it was Dr. Reitman -- I'm
sorry -- Dr. Gilbertson testified to it earlier,
it was that time up in court when we met in that
room with Dr. Gilbertson.
Q Had you ever met with them in therapy before that?
A I had been in his office with Nico. He'd come
over to the house and talked to Nico a time or
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two. I'd talked to him then. I talked to him on
the phone.
Q How about did you try working in therapy with them
at a place called Moxie?
A It wasn't with Gilbertson. It was Moxie.
Q Right. Did you see the children at Moxie?
A No. I was -- I went to Moxie and had a session
or -- I think one or two sessions but the kids
never showed.
Q Okay. And how about through Genesis 2?
A Again, we had -- I don't know, maybe five or six
sessions. The kids did show -- the first day
they showed but no eye contact. They stayed away.
They all crowded on one couch. My oldest son did
not show up. No eye contact, wouldn't speak to me
and basically ran out of there. And then
subsequently afterwards, they wouldn't even come
into the room, they wouldn't cooperate with
anybody. It would never last more than five
minutes. Can I -- I'd like to point out also that
what happened there was very degrading in the
sense that --
THE COURT: Well, Mr. Rucki, there is no
question in front of you, so...
THE WITNESS: Okay.
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BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Had you tried to make arrangements with Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki for you to see the children?
A I was basically on a no-contact through the
courts. I couldn't have any type of contact. I
got in trouble for a third-party contact by asking
a neighbor to grab some tools out of the house
because my basement flooded at my other house. I
had to go to court for that.
Q Do you have any convictions for violating an order
for protection?
A Convictions, no, I don't think so.
Q Was the one you just talked about for having a
neighbor get tools, did you plead guilty to that
one?
A You know, I'll be honest, I don't recall. I did
-- yeah, I must have because I was put on parole
for a year. I've been thrown in jail for touching
my mailbox. I have a no-weapons deal for two
years on me. I've never owned a gun, never fired
a gun. So, maybe I guess I was convicted.
Q Okay. Did you ever threaten to kill Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki and the five children at your
kitchen table?
A No, and I testified to that previously. The fact
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that, you know, I'm having a discussion with her,
which was like talking to a brick wall with no
response, no emotion, pretty -- pretty important
stuff to be talking with your wife about, and I
believe I made the comment along the lines of, you
know, what do you want me to do, put a gun to my
head? And that has been misconstrued by her and
interpreted by her as me threatening everybody.
That's the only thing I can think of that that's
where that came from.
Q Did you ever leave a message on either Sandra's
address --
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I'm going to have
to step out. I'm about to have a coughing fit.
THE COURT: Okay.
(Off the record.)
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you. I apologize.
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Mr. Rucki, did you ever leave a message on Ms.
Grazzini-Rucki's phone with gun shot sounds?
A No. What they are referring to and when I was
accosted by this reporter on this, was, you know,
I called my son's phone and as I explained to
them, you know, I'm a dad. And, you know, I've
been shoved out of my children's lives. I got all
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this chaos around me now and I'm frustrated, and I
can't communicate to my children and my children
are -- I'm watching my son just drop out of
everything at school, sports, you know, just you
can see this kid shutting down. And, yeah, I
called his phone and I was upset and, you know,
when we're upset you yell and you're trying to get
through to make this kid hear you and I'm just a
concerned dad, and a frustrated dad that wants to,
you know, I'm trying to get to my kid. And, you
know, that's something you just can't explain to
people when you can't -- how you get thrown out of
their lives and they -- that's really all it is.
Q That was the phone message -- your voice message
to Nico, correct?
A Yeah, and, you know, whatever else is on this gun
shot thing, that's all manufactured crap. You
know, if that was such a big deal back then why
wasn't it put in court? And that's the question I
posed to the reporter.
Q So you never left a message with gun shots to any
of your children?
A Again, I do not own a gun. I've never shot a gun.
I'm not a fisherman. I'm not a hunter. I
don't --
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Q And so the children in September of 2012 ended up
in the care of your sister, Tammy Love, and
petitioner's sister, Nancy Olson?
A Correct.
Q And was that a result of an agreement that the
parties had come to because Ms. Grazzini-Rucki
indicated, one, that she didn't -- she wanted you
to have the children?
A Yes, that is what we originally agreed with Tammy,
yes.
Q And also the recommendations of Dr. Reitman, that
Ms. Grazzini-Rucki had been not fostering the
children's relationship with you in any way?
A Correct.
Q And the reason why Tammy -- Tammy moved into the
house on Ireland Place, is that correct?
A Correct. That's my former home.
Q And that's the family home?
A That's the family home.
Q And is the reason why she moved into that home
because that's -- they wanted the children -- you
wanted the children to have as much stability as
possible throughout this transition?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. And then eventually I think you heard the
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testimony that the four younger children then went
to live with petitioner's sister, Nancy Olson?
A Yeah, there was so much drama that evening trying
to find the younger kids and then the older two
girls not showing up and when they got them all
back in they were -- the younger ones were very
upset. I had called my brother-in-law earlier
that evening and asked him to go over there to
help stabilize the kids. And he did. And, you
know, and they came to the conclusion that the
four younger ones should go over to Nancy's for
right now at that moment to -- just to get it
calm.
Q And then from that point on Nico -- at that point
until approximately April of 2013, Nico was
staying at the Ireland Place home with your
sister?
A Yes.
Q And did you have any contact with him during that
period?
A Yeah, you know, very slow in the beginning. I
respected his space. I mean, there was a lot of
time I hadn't seen him. We didn't know a lot
about him at that point. He kind of had been
running on his own and he had some demands and we
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respected that and slowly kind of worked on
breaking down that barrier just with a hi, started
that way right there and really just gave him his
space until we got to a point where we could talk.
Q How's your relationship with Nico now?
A I would call it normal as father/son.
Q And has he spent the night at your home?
A Yes.
Q And you're living at the Farmington --
A I live over in Farmington, yes.
Q -- address. And then in April of 2013, the two
younger children also then moved into the home
with Tammy?
A Yes.
Q And how has your relationship with the two younger
children, Nia and Gino, progressed?
A Again, same kind of deal, just took it slow. Nia
was a little more, I would call it, on the
frightened side. You know, again, we just
stayed -- kept the distance. I think it really
helped having my mother there, Grandma, and really
slowly buffering and just letting down the guard
and let Nia come back. You know, that's what
really happened. And, again, just respecting her
and not trying to ask too many questions, just let
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her be a girl and show her I was there.
Q And how is your relationship with Nia today?
A It's, again, I'd say it's normal. We had a nice
moment at the State Fair with her grabbing my arm
and my hand and walking with me and holding my
hand and then I knew things were good. And same
with Gino. Gino's a pretty simple kid. He's
always been very attentive and knowing that I'm
dad.
Q And have both of those children also spent the
night with you at your Farmington home?
A Yeah.
Q Are they comfortable with their home?
A Yeah, they're fine. I got three dogs. They love
the dogs. They're glad to be back with the dogs.
We're good.
Q And now your two older girls, Samantha and Gianna,
do you have any idea where they are?
A No.
Q Have you seen them recently?
A I saw them, you know -- this is hard (crying).
You know, I don't stop looking for my girls. And
I know they are with their mother. But you don't
know. And I was out -- I just take a run every
now and then out towards Elko to see if I can see
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them.
Q Why do you go to Elko?
A Because that's where she lives. And that's where
her boyfriend -- her friend lives. And I just sit
down a few blocks away where I can see the house.
And Gianna came out and I called Detective Lamm
right away. And that was probably my first
mistake. I didn't know Elko had a police
department. I had known that they had been --
they had been disbanded years before so I didn't
know they had a police department. So I called
Detective Lamm who was working on this, and he
didn't answer, and I kind of sped down the street
and Gianna saw me coming and she ran around the
house and I drove by the house to look down and I
did a U-turn and came back around the front of the
house thinking she might be running around the
house and went down the block, and I turned around
in the cul-de-sac and I came back down the
cul-de-sac and there was the boyfriend out there
with a videotape taping me coming down the street,
you know, and that was it.
Q And when was that?
A Sometime in July.
Q Mr. Rucki, do you recall back in October of 2011
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getting a phone call from the parking lot manager
near Macy's in downtown Minneapolis?
A Yes.
Q What was the substance of that phone call?
A I was working on a job. I was driving a truck and
I was over in St. Louis Park. I got a call from
this guy. He says he's a parking attendant in
downtown Minneapolis and he asked me if I was down
there, and I said no. And he said they found a
bunch of my checks. And it just wasn't -- I
didn't quite understand what he was talking about
and he told me that they are Rucki Trucking
checks. And I said, well, I'm on my way. I'll be
right down there. And I drove down there and he
showed me a load of checks and a piece of paper
with my name and my social security number and
some bank accounts and then --
MS. ELLIOTT: May I approach, Your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q I'm showing you what's -- showing you what's
exhibit -- Marked as Exhibit 8 and already in
evidence in this court. Can you identify that?
A That's an old company check.
Q And is this a copy of one of the checks that was
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returned to you from Macy's or from the parking
lot near Macy's?
A Yes.
Q And how many of these were there?
A Quite a few. I'd say three-quarters of an inch, a
stack.
Q Okay. And now I'm showing you what's marked as
Exhibit 9, and can you -- that's already been
received in evidence as well. But can you
identify that?
A That also was there, it was my name and social
security and bank account.
Q And --
A Of the company, yeah.
Q And do you -- can you identify the handwriting on
that document?
A It looks -- actually looks like my daughter
Sammy's handwriting.
Q And this was part of the documents that the
parking lot attendant said he found?
A Yes.
Q Did you receive any more phone calls.
A It started pretty much all day after that. I was
getting phone calls from all over the cities from
Minneapolis, St. Paul, Richfield, Lakeville. I
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was out running around picking up checks until
10:00, 10:30 at night. I'd called the Lakeville
Police Department because I got a call from a
woman over at the mobile home park right off of
35W and Kenrick. She also had quite a few. I
also had people mailing them to me because I
wasn't going to run everywhere. But people were
fairly honest and, you know, it was the same
stuff. It was the social security number, name
and checks.
Q Have you had any problems with your credit as a
result of that, do you know?
A Just -- not from those checks per se, but all from
this whole ordeal. My credit has just been
ruined.
Q Okay. Now, Mr. Rucki, I'm going to be showing you
portions of a video that's been marked as
exhibit -- that's been received into evidence as
Exhibit 10.
THE COURT: It's my understanding the
equipment is working.
(Off the record - attempting to turn on
equipment.)
MS. ELLIOTT: I think we'll just do it on the
laptop again. This is the exhibit that was
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already admitted into evidence. And so, Mr.
Rucki -- Judge, can you see from there?
THE COURT: I can see from here. If you want
to put it at an angle. Ms. MacDonald, do you care
to see the exhibit as we watched yesterday?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: Okay. Again, she's not
indicating anything. You may proceed. Mr.
Jerabek, if you want to step up and take a look
and anyone else is welcome to take a look at the
video that's being played on the laptop.
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q So, Mr. Rucki, the day after you received the call
from the Macy's parking garage attendant -- or
that afternoon -- did we go down and review?
A Yes, we did.
Q Okay. Can you describe what this video is
showing?
A It's showing the 2007 Suburban at the pay booth.
Q Okay. And that's the 2007 Suburban that --
A It actually was a company truck.
Q And who was in possession of that vehicle on
October 6, 2007?
A Sandra.
Q That's clip one. Clip two, can you describe what
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that is showing?
A This is Sandy and Samantha getting in an elevator.
Q That's petitioner and your daughter Samantha?
A Yes.
Q And this was also on the recorded video at the
parking garage?
A Correct.
Q Clip three, can you describe what you see in this?
A The Suburban pulling up to the pay booth.
Q So now it's at the pay booth, what do you see?
A Right there, the passenger door opened and out
come the papers.
Q And those were the papers that were identified as
Exhibits 8 and 9?
A Correct.
Q And Samantha isn't old enough to drive, is she?
A No. She would have been just around 13. Just
turned 13.
Q Okay. Okay. Describe what this is showing?
A That's the back of the Suburban driving up to the
pay booth. Just the Suburban pulling up to the
pay booth.
Q The fourth entry, can you describe what that
shows?
A Samantha and Sandra, looks like they have been
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shopping, and they are back in the elevator.
Q Do you see anything in Samantha's arms?
A Looks like a bunch of packages and some papers. A
stack of papers.
Q Clip five -- six, I apologize shows what?
A The two of them, Sandy and Samantha walking to and
getting in the elevator.
Q Clip seven?
A They are walking away from the elevators towards
the parking ramp and Samantha just threw a bunch
of papers down on the ground.
Q Clip eight shows what?
A They are walking to the elevators from the parking
ramp.
Q Did Ms. Grazzini-Rucki have anything in her arms?
A Looks like she was carrying a package, a bag.
Q And clip nine?
A That looked like the other angle from that last
clip. They were walking and she's carrying --
Q That's when they are just arriving?
A It must have been.
Q And the final clip? It looks like it's a repeat
of one of the other ones?
A Yeah, the same one as they're leaving going to the
ramp where she drops the papers -- Samantha drops
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the papers.
Q And you have no doubt in your mind that that's
your daughter Samantha?
A No doubt, unfortunately.
Q And do you know what day of the week this was?
A I don't know the specific day. It was a weekday
when Samantha should have been in school.
Q And do you know whether she was excused from
school that day?
A We did check and she was not excused from school.
I mean, she should have been in school.
Q Do you think the children should have a
relationship with their mother?
A Yeah, I do. She is, after all, their mother. She
was a good mother when the kids were young. A lot
of things have transpired since then. We have
been having problems in our family -- her family
particularly since 2006 where there's been a slow
deterioration of Sandy. You know, the drama. You
know, I don't know -- when her mother died in 2008
something changed with her, and it's just been
getting worse.
Q You were ordered to complete a psychological
evaluation, correct?
A Yes.
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Q And did you do that?
A Yes.
Q You were ordered to complete a chemical dependency
evaluation?
A Yes.
Q Did you do that?
A Yes.
Q And were there any recommendations for you?
A No.
Q Okay. Did you do a hair follicle test as well?
A Yes.
Q And you also were ordered to complete anger
management with Bob Kelly?
A Yes.
Q And did you complete that?
A Yes.
Q You were ordered to work with Judy Sherwood for
parent coaching. Did you do that?
A Yes.
Q And have you cooperated with both of the Guardian
ad Litems that have been appointed in this case?
A Yes.
Q What do you think is in the best interests of your
children regarding custody, legal and physical
custody?
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A I think that I should be the parent. You know,
I'm the only one that can offer them stability and
give them any shot. You know, that's where it
should be. I do believe, again, back to, you
know, she is their mother. But she's not capable
of dealing with reality it seems. She -- you
know --
Q When -- if she were awarded custody do you think
she would foster the children's relationship with
you?
A Absolutely not.
Q Why do you believe that?
A She has shown no interest in it and she said it
herself.
Q What has she said?
A She says that she doesn't think that she could
deal with me in any capacity and she's shown
nothing but hostility towards me, and she's
basically portrayed that to the children and I
cannot see how that would foster any type of
relationship.
Q After September 7th, when your sister moved into
the Ireland place home, did you go to the home at
all?
A Yeah, I just -- basically just to do repairs,
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small repairs of the house. The house was in
shambles.
Q Can you describe for the Court what your house
looked like when your sister Tammy took over
possession of it?
A It was a garbage house. Destroyed. Holes. The
filth was immense. Gray fuzz all over the
carpets. Food everywhere. Writings on the walls,
holes in the walls, it looked like a war zone.
Q How about the yard?
A The yard was virtually dead and I called it
cabbage. It was nothing but weeds. In some areas
it was three feet high. It just was -- it was
just beat up and torn down. It was a beautiful
home at one point.
Q And so have you been at the home then making the
repairs to get the home ready to sell?
A Yes.
Q So, and -- and do you know whether at the time
that your sister took over the home where Nico was
living?
A Can you repeat that?
Q When your sister moved into the home in early
September of 2012, had Nico been living there?
A No, nobody seemed to know anything about it.
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Q About where Nico was?
A Where Nico had been. You know, I called some
friends. They had kids that are his age that
might know where he was. I made a few phone calls
and one of the kids said he's hanging out with
this Nick kid that he used to play hockey with
years ago. And I didn't know where he lived, so I
had one of the parents look him up in the phone
directory, school directory, and we gave that
information to the police department.
Q Okay. And now since September 7th of 2012, Nico
has been either at the Ireland Place home or with
you at the Farmington home?
A Correct.
Q What things were written on the walls?
A It looked like the girls were very distressed, a
lot of hope, a lot of messages about hope. One of
my daughters had written in her closet that she
was tired of being bullied, you know. It's very
disturbing. These kids were -- it looked like
they'd been held hostage in this house trying to
stay inspirational to deal with what they were
dealing with.
Q Do you have any plans for what to do with the
older girls once they are found or returned?
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A You know, I would hope that we can, you know, get
them some sort of help where they could be
introduced to really the truth and the reality of
what's going on. I don't think they have any
basis of what's happening. You know,
deprogramming, if you want to use that word. You
know, I don't know at what facility this is going
to happen but right now in the state they seem to
be in, you know, I can't imagine that they could
come directly to me without some sort of
intervention or some help to try to balance this
out.
Q And have -- do you have -- are you afraid of any
actions of Sandra towards the children?
A Yeah, I don't think she is stable. I just -- you
know. I have a real fear of her myself. You
know, I cannot -- they have no regard for law or
what's in the best interests of these children.
They use them as pawns. They are clearly using
these two girls and whipping them up for her own
personal whatever it is she thinks she needs.
But, you know, I do not feel that these kids are
in -- they cannot be around her right now until
we figure out what's going on with her, and that
we can stabilize just their lives and around --
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with her around it's not stable.
Q Are you afraid that any of the younger -- either
of the younger two children will be abducted?
A It is a concern. You know, they are irrational.
They don't -- Again, they don't have any regard
of -- or fear of the courts, the law, you know,
property, personal property, personal -- my home.
I've been vandalized twice now, once by Mr.
Reardon's son. We got him on film. We got Mr.
Reardon on film coming over to my house late at
night with a flashlight. I don't feel -- I'm a
big guy and all, but I don't feel safe and I can't
imagine that -- it'd be the same for my children.
Q And your home was vandalized recently, wasn't it?
A August 4th.
Q And that's the videotape that you have?
A Yeah. We have Mr. Reardon's son, his middle son,
who is in the military in his fatigues and his
haircut and it was a training weekend for ROTC or
whatever that's called, and he's brandishing an
eight-inch knife openly walking around my property
at 5:30 in the morning.
Q Was there any property damaged?
A He broke into one of my garages and slashed up my
Chevelle tires, ripped the stereo out of it and
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went around outside and slashed up the tires on my
Suburban, broke the door going into my garage.
Q Are the Lakeville Police investigating that
currently?
A Yes.
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you, Mr. Rucki. I have
nothing else.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Well, I just want to ask you, did you pay any of
the court-ordered child support from the May 2011
order?
A No.
Q Did you pay any of the court-ordered spousal
support from May 2011 order?
A No.
(Pause)
THE COURT: Anything else?
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Do you currently have ownership of the Ireland
Place property?
A Yes.
Q And did Judge Knutson sign a summary real estate
judgment--
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MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I'm going to object
to this line of questioning as irrelevant to
custody and parenting time.
THE COURT: I'll overrule that. You can
answer.
THE WITNESS: I don't know if it's -- I don't
know the technicality of it all, but it was
awarded to me after your client put it into
default and failed to get it out of foreclosure.
(Pause)
THE COURT: Anything else?
MS. MACDONALD: No.
THE COURT: Mr. Jerabek?
MR. JERABEK: Briefly.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. JERABEK:
Q Briefly, what do you believe your parenting
strengths are?
A I'm a good dad. I'm a well-structured guy. I'm a
loving, carrying dad. I'm a dad.
Q Do you think there are any issues you have to work
on as a parent?
A I think, like anybody, patience is -- you know, my
life has gotten much calmer now that I've been
away for a couple years. I attribute most of that
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to dealing with Sandra and her family. You know,
patience is something that I think we all have to
work on.
Q Do you think Ms. Grazzini-Rucki has strengths as a
parent?
A You know, she did. She was a loving mom, a caring
mom, you know, years ago. I think that has
diminished over time here. I don't think she is
capable of dealing with what's -- today, I just
don't think she has the capability of dealing with
children anymore.
Q So what do you think her weaknesses are at the
present time?
A Right now she is unstable. Her emotions are way
out of check. I think she's out of check with
reality. I don't think she grasps what she's done
to her family, how she uses her children. You
know, this path of destruction that she's on
doesn't -- there is no -- it doesn't warrant
anything. There's no reason for this. There
never has been. If we were two, you know,
reasonable adults you'd think you'd be able to
talk about this stuff and work through it or come
to a conclusion of what needs to be done. This is
highly theatrical, chaotic. A lot of this doesn't
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even make sense.
Q Now, you were asked a question by her about
custody and you said that you should be the
parent. Now, it's obvious that you're both the
parents of the children, correct?
A Correct.
Q Now, when you said that, what did you mean?
A You know, every child needs a parent. You need
both parents, and, you know, we have -- my family
has mental illness in it. My grandmother was --
is schizophrenic. We're familiar with, you know,
how -- the instability of all this stuff, but, you
know, you need to have both parents whether or not
one parent may not be as well as the other, but if
she is not well, she can work on getting help and
I believe that it's important that she is around
for her children, to be able to talk to her
children. You know, you don't want -- it's not
good for these kids not to have a mother, and, you
know, just things need to be in control, and she's
not in control. And, I mean, I would just ask
that she get some help and so that she can be a
good mother to her children. But right now, as
she refuses, she is a detriment to these children,
and she clearly doesn't have the facilities to
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make good decisions around them and put them in --
tends to use them and put them in highly volatile
situations where kids don't need to be involved,
especially in the parents' problems. I believe
that, you know, if she got help we could work with
her. It would have to be in an environment where
the kids are protected. I really believe that. I
don't think she should be alone with these kids
right now in her current state, and, you know,
but, if she's not -- she needs to grasp this and I
don't know if she can or not.
Q Are you ready, willing and able to take the kids
-- I would say you already discussed the two
girls, but are you ready, willing and able to take
the kids into your care at the present time?
A Absolutely, you know. Again, you got to remember
Sandy is a flight attendant. She was gone a lot,
and, you know, she portrays herself as being home
all the time. She wasn't home all the time. I
run a business. I'm a dad. I work out of the
house. I'm always home, you know. So, you know,
I was a dad when this started. I'm still a dad
today and it hasn't changed. And, I mean, that's
just part of life. I mean, when we started having
children you accept your responsibility as dad.
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And I'm dad.
MR. JERABEK: Thank you. No further
questions.
THE COURT: Ms. Elliott.
MS. ELLIOTT: Yes, Your Honor. I have a
couple other exhibits. They are also included in
the book.
THE CLERK: Exhibit 14 is marked for
identification. Exhibit 15 is marked for
identification. And Exhibit 16 is marked for
identification.
(Whereupon, Exhibits Numbers 14, 15, 16 were
marked for identification.)
MS. ELLIOTT: Thank you.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Mr. Rucki, I'm showing you what's been marked as
Exhibit 14. Is this a copy of a recent paycheck
stub of yours through Kang Contracting?
A Yes.
Q And has your income changed at all since November
of 2012 when I believe the parties agreed on the
record that your -- you were able to earn about
$60,000 a year?
A No. It's the same.
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Q Okay.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, we would offer
Exhibit 14?
MS. MACDONALD: Same objection I've been
making.
THE COURT: What was that?
MS. MACDONALD: Objecting to these
proceedings and objecting.
THE COURT: Okay. Objection is overruled.
Exhibit 14 is received.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 14 was received in
evidence.)
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q I'm showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 15,
is this a summary of your monthly -- your current
monthly living expenses?
A Yes.
MS. ELLIOTT: We offer Exhibit 15.
THE COURT: Any objection to 15?
MR. JERABEK: No objection.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald?
MS. MACDONALD: Same objection.
THE COURT: Okay. Exhibit 15 is received.
Objection is overruled.
(Whereupon, Exhibit Number 15 was received in
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evidence.)
BY MS. ELLIOTT:
Q Now, I'm showing you Exhibit 16 and is this a
child support guidelines worksheet showing your
income at $60,000 a year and Ms. Grazzini-Rucki's
income at $60,000 a year that she has the ability
to earn?
A That's what it looks like to me.
Q And this document, it reflects she doesn't have
overnights with the children at this point?
A No, she does not.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, we'd offer
Exhibit 16 as well?
MS. MACDONALD: Objection.
THE COURT: And what is that?
MS. ELLIOTT: The child support guidelines
worksheet.
THE COURT: Mr. Jerabek.
MS. MACDONALD: It's an inaccurate document.
MR. JERABEK: No objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Ms. MacDonald, Exhibit 16?
MS. MACDONALD: It's an inaccurate document.
THE COURT: How is it --
MS. MACDONALD: It's not factual. The whole
thing is -- it just isn't factual and I object.
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THE COURT: Okay. Do you wish to question
Mr. Rucki on that?
MS. MACDONALD: I could just ask him a few
questions.
THE COURT: Go ahead.
RECROSS EXAMINATION
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q So what type of education do you have? Where did
you graduate from high school?
A Minneapolis Southwest.
Q And did you -- what happened after that?
A As far as?
Q As schooling?
A Went to the University of Minnesota, went to
Normandale, went back to the University of
Minnesota.
Q What job did you have in high school?
A Job?
Q Uh-huh.
A I worked at a Holiday gas station. I worked at a
Dairy Queen. I worked at Brothers Restaurant. I
worked at a Country Kitchen.
Q And what year was that?
A You know, prior to 1981.
Q And what period of time did you work at the
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Country Kitchen?
A 1981, a senior in high school.
Q And what other jobs did you just mention?
A Brothers Restaurant, Holiday Gas Station, Dairy
Queen.
Q And when did you work at Brothers Restaurant?
A 1980.
Q And for what period of time?
A I couldn't give you specifics, maybe through the
summer I was in high school.
Q And what's the third job you mentioned?
A I worked at the Rain restaurant for a while which
is at Southdale, cooking.
Q What period of time was that?
A 1981.
Q And for how long were you there?
A A few months maybe.
Q In 1981?
A Yeah.
Q And what was the fourth job you mentioned?
A Holiday Gas Station, tenth grade, Dairy Queen,
tenth, 11th, 12th, kind of a summer job.
Q Holiday Gas Station, when did you work there?
A Tenth grade, 1979.
Q For what period of time?
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A Tenth grade.
MS. ELLIOTT: Your Honor, I'm going to object
to this. This questioning as irrelevant.
THE COURT: What's the relevance?
MS. MACDONALD: I'm just trying to get some
work history.
THE COURT: Well, we can get recent work
history. Do you want to ask about any recent
work?
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q Did you work at all those jobs all at the same
time?
A No.
Q So they were just different periods of time?
A Just different periods. I was a kid.
Q And that was when you were in high school?
A Yes.
Q And then -- and then so that would bring us up
to -- what year did you graduate from high school?
A 1981.
Q 1981? So all those jobs were before 1981?
A Yes.
Q And then in 1981 when you graduated where did
you --
MR. JERABEK: Objection relevance, the Court
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has said recent work history.
THE COURT: Objection sustained. Let's go to
the last five or ten years or something.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q So ten years ago. So let's go ten years ago which
would be two thousand -- What would ten years ago
be? I can't think right now.
A 2003?
Q 2003.
MS. MACDONALD: So, Your Honor, can I go back
to January 2003?
THE COURT: Sure.
BY MS. MACDONALD:
Q So January 2003 -- on January 1, 2003, what job
did you -- where were you working?
A I was self-employed.
Q For whom?
A Myself.
Q Yourself.
(Whereupon, the court reporter interrupted
and asked for a recess.)
THE COURT: Okay. We're just going to take a
quick recess.
(Recess taken.)
MS. MACDONALD: Was that on the record just
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now what happened?
THE COURT: Yes. We'll put that on the
record. The Court was interrupted in the
proceedings. A gentleman came in and we had
reason to believe that he was recording the
proceedings. We asked the deputy to ensure that
the proceedings were not being recorded.
Is this going to -- Do you want to keep going
on this? We'll take our lunch break and come back
to this? Is this going to be a while, Ms.
MacDonald?
MS. MACDONALD: (No response.)
THE COURT: All right. We'll take our lunch
break. We'll come back at 1:30.
(Lunch recess taken.)
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REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE
STATE OF MINNESOTA)
ss.
COUNTY OF DAKOTA)
I, RHONDA L. ROUTE, Official Court
Reporter for the State of Minnesota, one of the
official court reporters of the First Judicial
District, State of Minnesota, do hereby certify
that as such reporter, I reported in shorthand to
the best of my ability the proceedings had in the
hearing of the aforementioned action; that I
thereafter transcribed the foregoing into
typewriting by means of computer-aided
transcription to the best of my ability; and that
the foregoing transcript consisting of 98 pages is
a true and correct transcript of the proceedings
had herein.
_________________________
Rhonda L. Route, RPROfficial Court ReporterDakota County Judicial CenterHastings, Minnesota 55033651-438-8087
Dated: January 23, 2014T h e f o r e g o i n g c e r t i f i c a t i o n o f t h i s
t r a n s c r i p t d o e s n o t a p p l y t o a n y r e p r o d u c t i o n o f
t h e s a m e b y a n y m e a n s u n l e s s u n d e r t h e d i r e c t
c o n t r o l a n d / o r d i r e c t i o n o f t h e c e r t i f y i n g
r e p o r t e r .
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