New York's First

F L Y I N G S A U C E R G 0 N V E N T I 0 N

* * *

1967 Congress of Scientific UFOlogists

June 23-25, 1967

Commodore Hotel, New York City

READ: What the Prominent UFOlogists say: PAGE

HAVE Extraterrestrials Really Landed? 3, 49

WHO Are the Mystery Men Who Visit Witnesses to UFO Landings and Scare Them Into Silence? 36' 43

WHY Do the Flying Saucers Kidnap Dogs? 36

HOW Did the Term "Flying Saucer" Originate? 40

WILL the Uneven Accumulation of Ice at the Poles Cause the Earth to Flip on its Axis? 44

WHAT Happens to the 20,000 People Who Each Year Disappear from New York City Alone? 46

IS the End of the World as We Know it at Hand? WHAT Do the Great Thinkers Say? 49

READ the Story of the Man Who Built and Flew Flying Saucer Models. 78

WERE the Nazca Lines Made by or For Saucer People? 61

IS Vi-Venus Really from the Planet Venus? 69

HAVE Flying Saucers Caused our Massive Blackouts? 99

BES.SIE . J o GIBBS Court Reporter

Route 4, Winchester, Virginia 22601

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ARKIVET FOR UFO-FORSKNING

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..,) S-600 11 NORRKOPING 11

Sverige

I N DE X OF S PEAKERS

P r o fe s s o r G o rdon Evan s

Dr . F rank S t ran g e s

Roy Th i nn e s

S t ew a r t Robb

John A . Ke e l

G ray Barke r

Rev . R i ch a r d B a s i l e

P ar i s F l ammonde

J ame s Randi

Roy Th i nn e s

Long John Nebe l (Wi th V i - Venu s )

Howard Men ge r

I van T . S an de rs on

A l e x an de r McNe i l l

B e s s i e J . G ibbs , C o ur t Repo r t e r , Rout e 4 ,

Rep o r t e d By

W i n c he s t e r , V i r g i n i a 2 2 6 0 1

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Op a l Sm i th Ly t l e Towe r s

C in c innat i , Oh i o P in e R i d g e , Arkan s a s

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1 9 6 7 CONG RE S S O F S C I ENT I F I C UFOLO G I STS

F r i day Even i n g S e s s i on

. . . The F r i day Eve n i n g S e s s i on was c onven e d a t 8 : 0 0 p . m . June 2 5 , 1 9 6 7 , i n t h e G r an d B a l l r o om o f t h e Ho t e l C ommo do re , L ex i n g t on Avenue and 4 2 n d S t r e e t , New York , New York .

MR . T IMOTHY G REEN BE CKLEY : I wou l d l i ke t o we l come you al l h e re t on i gh t . I wou l d l i k e t o in t ro du c e t o you t he Ch a i r ­man o f t he Con gre s s o f S c i en t i f i c Ufo l o g i s t s , New Yo rk ' s f i r s t F l y in g S auc e r Conven t i on , J im Mo s e l ey . (App l aus e . )

M R . JAME S W . MO S E LEY : I wan t t o t h ank you ve ry muc h f o r c om in g . I s e e we h ave a ve ry g o o d c rowd he re t on i gh t . I hop e we ' l l h ave a g o o d p ro gram . I have a c oup l e o f announ c ement s t o make f i r s t , a coup l e o f p e op l e t o i n t r o duce b e fore I i n t ro ­duc e our f i r s t s p e ake r .

F i r s t , M i s s UFO o f 1 9 6 7 , M i s s Rhona S t i r i s s . W i l l you c ome out and t ak e a bow , p l e a s e ? ( App l aus e.)

M I S S RHONA S T I R I SS : He l l o . I wou l d l i ke t o we l come y o u a l l t h i s even i n g .

MR . MOS ELEY : F i r s t o f a l l , p e rhap s we s houl d s t at e t h e purp o s e fo r wh i ch we are he re . I t h i n k I h ave be en a s k e d t h at on ab out a do z en s hows i n t h e l a s t f ew day s . I hope there is a p u rp o s e . I think t he re is one . We are a l l h�re , mys e l f and a l l t h e r e s t o f y ou , t o l e arn mo re ab out UFO s and , hope fu l l y , t o b e e n t e rt a i n e d a t l e as t dur i n g t he s e four open s e s s i o n s . I t h i nk mo s t o f you re a l i z e t h a t t h e re h ave a l re ady b e e n t h r e e c l o s e d s e s s i on s i n wh i ch we condu c t e d our bus i n e s s . Now we a r e at the p a r t o f the conven t i on wh i ch i s e n t e r t a i n ­ment , and a s s t at e d many t ime s , t h e re w i l l b e e i th e r m o t i on p i ct ure f i l m s o r s l i de s o r b o t h a t e a ch o f t he s e four op en s e s s i on s .

Ou r s p e c i a l gue s t who wi l l b e p re s en t t omo rrow a ft e rnoon and even i n g an d S un day a ft e rn o on , Roy Th i nn e s , t he s t ar of t h e AB C t e l e v i s i on s e r i e s , " T h e I nvade r s , ' ' i s c o mi n g a l l t h e way f rom Ho l l ywo o d a t g r e at e xp en s e t o us ; an d I hope you wi l l e n j oy h e ar i n g h im , b e c aus e h e h a s s e e n s auce r s , he has re s e arche d t h e s ub j e c t of s auc e r s , and h e be l ieve s in f l y i n g s au ce r s . He i s qu i t e a p e rs o n a l i ty , a n d I th i n k y ou w i l l e n j oy h im ve ry much �

I want t o t e l l y o u ab o u t a p e t i t i on t h a t we are c i rc u l at in g h e re , an d I w an t t o t e l l you why I am hop i n g t hat mo s t o f you or a l l o f you w i l l wan t to s i gn t h i s p e t i t i on s ome t ime dur i n g t h e c o u rs e o f t he s e s e s s i o n s . I t h ink a l o t o f you re a l i z e t h a t t he A i r F o rc e h a s p e rhap s t r i e d h a r d but h a s n ' t done a s

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much w i t h t he s auc e r s ub j e c t a s they m i gh t h ave done ove r t he y e a rs , and we wan t t o pe t i t i on t h e UN t o b e c ome a c t ive l y i nvo l v e d i n s au c e r re s e arch� I w i l l j us t re ad y o u t he p e t i t i on :

" PET I T I ON TO THE UN I TE D NAT I ONS

"We , the un de rs i gn e d , wi s h t o exp re s s our s t rong d i s s at i s ­f ac t i on w i t h t he·mann e r i n wh i ch t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s A i r F o r c e h a s c o n du c t e d i t s inve s t i g at i on-o f uniden t i f i e d f l y i n g ob j e c t s dur i n g t h e pas t twen ty years · ; and w e he reby p e t i t i on t he Un i t e d N a t i on s t o b e g i n a form a l and t h o r ough· inve s tigat i o n o f the UFO e n i gma , and t o r e l e a s e i t s f in d i n g s

. and conc l u s i on s t o t he Pub l i c:'

Tha t ' s a l l we a re s ay in g - - a v e ry s imp l e s t at ement - - and we are g o i n g to t urn t he s e s he e t s over to the UN a ft e r t he l as t ope n s e s s i on . And we w i l l app re c i at e i t i f any o f you want t o s i gn i t wh en t he opp o rtun i ty c om e s up.

I s e e t h a t t he n e xt p r o b l em h a s n ' t qu i t e ar i s en , a l though it m ay at any m oment . We h ave ab out f i l le d a l l the s e a t s . Pe rh ap s t h e r e a re s ome p e op l e who m ay h ave t o s t an d . We w i l l c o n t i nue t o s e l l t i c k e t s as l on g a s p e op l e wan t t o c ome ino The re w i l l be no guarant e e d s e a t in g at th i s po int . I f you c an f i n d a s e at , g o o d l u c k ; i f y o u c an ' t and are w i l l in g t o s t and , f i n e . I f y o u are fo r c e d t o s t an d and wan t your money b ac k , of c o u r s e , we w i l l r e fun d your money as a s t an de e .

I wonde r i f J o e F rank l in i s h e reo I f he i s , wou l d he p l e a s e make h im s e l f known ?

MR . JOE F RANKL I N : Hey !

MR . MOSE LEY : H e i s h e r e. I want t o int ro duce t o you a s t a r o f rad i o and t e l e v i s i on , a m an who h a s b e en ve ry , very k in d to t h i s convent i on , J o e F rank l i n. L a d i e s and gent l emen , J o e F rank l in ! ( Ap p l aus e . )

MR . JOE F RANKL I N : I d e em e d i t a g re a t hono r when Mr . Mo s e l ey w a s on my TV an d rad i o p r o g ram ye s t e rday , an d he a s k e d m e t o c ome down and j u s t s ay , "He l l o " i f I cou l d make i t . The r e s p o n s e he re i s i n c re d ib l e . T h i s tu rnout p rove s t o me t h a t I h av e g o t t o do m o r e p ro g rams t han e v e r on t h i s f abu l ou s t op i c�

I , f r an k ly , do n o t have a ve ry g r e a t know l e dg e o f f ly i n g s au c e rs - - I h ave n o know l e dge what s o eve r o f f l y i n g s au c e r s e x c e p t i n m y k i t chen . Some t im e s i n t h e m o rn in g my w i fe t h rows a c o upl e . Luc k i ly , h e r a im i s n o t g o o d . But I h ave me t p e op l e whom I t hought c ame from Out e r Sp a c e . H ow t hey g o t he re , by P o ny Exp re s s , J am a i c a Exp re s s , o r by f ly in g s au c e rs , I don ' t know , b u t I de f in i t e ly an d s e r i ou s ly h ave a p rom i s e f ro m Mro Mo s e l ey t h a t i f anyb o dy o ff i c i a l l y a r r i ve s f rom Out e r Sp ace , t hey w i l l make t h e i r f i r s t app e ar an c e on my TV s howo I am n o t b e i n g cut e ; t h a t w i l l de f in i t e ly h app e n , b e c au s e e ve ry t ime we do a p ro gr am on my s t at i on o n f l y i n g s au c e rs , the r a t ing i s

aut oma t i c a l ly much h i ghe r .

I j u s t wan t t o s ay t h a t I have an av i d hun g e r fo r any t h i ng t h a t I c an l e a rn on th i s fas c i nat i n g and b af f l i n g

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and m arve l ou s t op i c , and I am 1 0 0% b e h ind any o f t h e a c t iv i ty o f J im Mo s e l ey . J im i s a marve l ou s fe l l ow . L e t 's have i t for J im Mo s e l ey . ( App l aus e . ) He was no t l oo k ing fo r th i s ; he i s emb a r r a s s e d . H e i s mo d e s t , an d whe n p e op l e we re much more dub i ou s and muc h mo re s kep t i ca l t h an they are n ow , he was a p i one e r and a t ra i l b l a z e r . He i s a ma rve l ou s b oy . And I w i l l b e ve ry h appy t o rep o rt on TV on Monday the re s u l t s , t he con c l u s i on o f t h i s m e e t i n g .

An d , by t h e way , one o f t he g e n t l emen w i t h m e t on i ght i s t h e g en t l eman who wr i t e s " Bu c k Ro g e r s " and m any , many c om i c s t r ip s . H e i s t h e f e l l ow who wr i t e s " T he G re e n Be re t " and s eve r a l o t h e rs that I c an't t h in k o f . He has wr i t ten many , many b o o k s . H i s next b o o k i s o n F ly i ng S au c e r s . And I w i l l a s k h im , i f I m ay , t o s t and up and j us t s ay , "He l l o " and t ake a b ow , Howar d L i s k . ( App l aus e . ) Howard i s a g o od f r i end o f m in e , an d w e s ha l l g o b ack an d , a s l on g a s we c an , e n j oy t h i s m e e t in g . Once a g a i n , I am honored . Thank y o u s o mu ch .

MR . MOS E LEY : I t h ink i t i s ab out t ime t ha t we i n t ro duce our s p e ak e r who has be e n wa i t in g p a t i en t ly f o r s ev e r a l m i nut e s n ow . W e a r e ve ry hono re d t o h ave t h i s gen t l em an he re w i t h u s , P ro f e s s o r G o rdon Evan s , a p o l i t i c a l s c i en t i s t who i s e sp e c i a l ly i n t e re s t e d i n t h e p ro b l em s o f n a t i on a l s e cu r i ty . He i s the au t ho r of s eve r a l b o ok s and a r t i c l e s o Cu r ren t ly h e i s wo rk i n g o n a s t udy o f t he s i gn i f i c a n c e o f e xt r at e rre s t r i a l l i£e . H i s t a l k t on i gh t i s e n t i t l e d , "The Ext r a t e rre s t r i al Mi n d . " I n ow i n t r o du c e t o y ou Mr . G o rdon Evans .

THE EXTRATERRE S T R I AL M I N D By G o rdon H . Evans

PROFE S SO R EVANS : Wh e n De an Sw i ft pub l i s he d h i s Gul l i v e r's T r ave l s l o ng a g o , t h e re w a s a c e rt a in I r i s h e cc l e s i a s t i c who r e a d i t ; whe n h e g o t t hrough he t o l d h i s f r i e n ds i t was a ve ry f in e b o o k , b u t he d i dn't be l i eve h a l f o f i to We l l , I t h i n k in s au c e r s o u r s i tu a t i on is s im i l ar b u t a l s o d i f f e re n t . O f cours e , Gu l l i v e r wa s a j o k e , a p aro dy - - v e ry few p e op l e b e l i eve i t . F ly i n g s au c e r s , o f cours e , a re n o j o k e , n o p a ro dy , and unt i l n ow r e l at iv e ly few p e op l e h ave b e l i eved t ha t t hey a re a c t ua l ly wha t t h ey a re - - e x t r a t e rre s t r i a l c ra f t . T h i s i s wh a t I am c o nv i nc e d t h e y a r e . I th i n k t h e re i s a grow i n g numb e r o f p e op l e who t h i n k a s I do .

The re i s n o p o in t i n doub t in g any·mo re t h e re a l i ty o f e x t r a t e rre s t r i a l l i f e vi s i t in g t he E a r t h , o r a t l e as t t ha t m a c h i n e s o f a l i en o r i g i n are h e re � The e vi de n c e i s m a s s ive; t en s of t ho u s ands of r ep o r t s by r e s p on s ib l e p e op l e . Al s o , the e v i den c e is i n t e r l o ck e d : v a r i ous b o di ly s en s e s an d v a r i ous t yp e s of i n s t rume n t at i on . P e op l e have f e l t , h e ard , s e e n UFO s - -

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t he s ame UFOs . They h ave b e en rep o r t e d on radar; e l e c t ro ­magn e t i c e ff e c t s h ave b e e n r ep o r t e d , an d s o on and s o on . A l l t h i s i s m o s t p e r s u a s ive t o any r e a s onab l e m i n d . We h ave h e re a mac h i n e , a mach i n e t h a t i s p rob ab l y t e chnolo g i c ally b e y o n d any t h in g t ha t we c an y e t p r o duce .

The o r i g i n and n a tu re o f t he s e ob j e c t s c an o n l y b e den i e d b y i gno ran c e and s op h i s t ryo W e h ave much i gno ran ce s t i l l and , I am a f r a i d , s ome s o ph i s t ry on t he p art of t h e p e op l e - - s ome o f t hem i n t h e s c i ent i f i c commun i ty , many o f them i n t h e a c a d em i c c ommun i ty - - who s hould kn ow b e t t e r . T o o m any qu a l i f i e d p e op l e o f f e r exp l an at i on s wh i ch are n on s en s e .

Now y o u have my s t an d , I ' d l i ke t o by - p a s s th i s que s t i on o f : Do the UFOs ex i s t , and i f s o , are they ext rat e rre s t r i al ? I ' ll s imply a s s ume t he y a re e x t rat e rre s t r i a l c r a ft and ra i s e wha t I t h i n k a r e t he imp o r t an t que s t i on s : Wh at do they wan t ? Why a re t h ey h e r e ? Wha t do e s th i s a s t on i s h in g p re s en c e i mp ly ? Ve ry r a r e l y h av e t he s e que s t i on s b e en a s k e d i n pub l i c . The UFO advo c a t e s have b e en so o c cup i e d t ry ing t o ma int a in t he UFO re ali ty , t h a t t h ey h ave b e en un able to r a i s e t he que s t i on s b e h i n d t h e re a l i ty . I th ink t h i s s hould be ra i s e d .

T h e f i rs t app ro ach t o t h i s que s t i on o f "Why ? " i s what we c an i n fe r f ro m t he i r b e h av i o r , or b e h av i o r o f t he c r a f t . ( I am as s um in g t h a t t he v a r i ou s c on t a c t repo r t s wh i ch have r e ache d t he publi c are , t o p u t i t m i n imumly , dub i ous . S ome o f t hem m ay b e t rue . I don ' t know; I h ave neve r s e en one t h a t i s p r o foun dly c o nv in c i n g o ) But w e d o know t he c ra f t

-a r e r e a l and

t h ey h ave a b e h avi o r p a t t e rn of s o rt s e Bu t what a p a t t e rn i t i s ! En i gm a t i c , ran dom , ch ild i s h , un s y s t emat i c , purp o s e l e s s in human t e rm s .

Wo r s e t h an t h i s , t h e e x t r a t e rre s t r i als wi l l n o t commun i c a t e w i t h u s . They could do s o i f t hey w i s he d , even t ho u gh the i r l an guage i s ve ry d i f fe re n t from ours . They c ould commun i c a t e s ymb o l i c a l ly , b y s i gn s . At l e a s t t h e i r eliment a ry s c i en c e mus t b e s im i l ar t o ours ; the un i ty o f n a t ure t ells u s t h i s . They c ou l d t a l k t o u s , but they don ' tG Th i s i s a very unhuman th i n g t o do . Any E a r t hm en who lan de d on Mar s wou l d s c ra t ch up t h e f i r s t Mart i an t he y could f in d an d h ave a h e a r t - t o - he ar t t a l k w i th t hem . T h e Ma rt i an s a r e h e re , and t hey don ' t w ant t o t a l k . Ve ry d i s t u rb i n g .

S o what do we mak e o f th i s ? T h ey could i f they want e d t o , but t h ey don ' t . Could i t b e b e c aus e o f t he i r vas t s up e r i o r i ty ? Pe rhap s , but I d on ' t t h ink s o . Mo s t ent omolo g i s t s wou-ld l ove to ta l k t o c ricke t s or lady bug s if they could; it would be v e ry f a s cin at in g t o-c ommun i c a t e w i t h an i ma l s .. Be c au s e an imals h ave lit Lle or no s ymboli c b e hav i o r , we c an ' L do s o . But t o s ay t he alien s · -d:·o n' t w ant t -o t alk t o u s b e c au s e o f a h i gher int ell ±g e n c e doe s n ' t fi t the ana l o gy o f our a t t i tude t oward humb l eT s p e c i e s o n t h i s p l an e t .

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Ye t c e r t a i n e l ement s o f U FO b e h av i o r m ake a c e r t a in amoun t o f s en s e ; one I ' d l i k e to men t i on he re t on i ght . An i n c r e a s i n g l y frequent p a t t e rn i s c l o s e app ro ach to human b e in g s . No t al l o f the UF O s s t ay u p i n t he s ky , you know ; s ome o f them c ome down and s i t o n the groun d . O ft en t hey app roach ve ry n e a r t o human b e ings , a l mo s t a lways whe n we are i n automob i l e s , o r po s s i b ly i n h ou s e s . I w a s l o o k i n g through c a s e s the o the r day , and I have t roub l e f i n d i n g one c a s e - - I d i d f i n d one - - whe re t he UFO app r o a ch e d a man o ut i n t h e op en e A g a i n an d ag a in we n o t i c e t h i s p a tt e rn of app ro ach i n g humans i n aut omob i l e s . The e x t ra t e rre s t r i a l s l ov e aut omob i l e s . That i s a cur i ou s t h ing .

The o b j e c t s g e n e r a t e a ve ry s t rong e l e c t r i c a l charge : i on i z a t i o n app e ar s around t h em , arc ing h a s b e en rep o r t e d when UFOs a r e near t h e g ro un d . The re wa s a re c en t c a s e in wh i ch an o b j e c t p a s s e d b e twe en two chu rch s p i re s , an d the re was a ve ry d e f i n i t e a r c i n g b e tw e e n the m a ch ine and the spi r e s .

Now , o bv i ou s l y , a man s t an d i n g i n a f i e l d , i f he was app r o a che d by s ome th i n g th a t c arr i e d a ve ry powe rful e l e ct r i c c h a r g e , m i g h t b e e l e c t r o cu t e d; h e wou l d b e s t ruck a s i f by l i ght n in g . In an aut omo b i l e , of cours e , t h i s won ' t h appen ; t h e aut omo b i l e w i l l g round t h e c h a r ge . I am n o t enough o f a p hy s i c i s t t o de s c r i b e re a s o n s , but t he e xp e rt s s ay you are s af e in an automob i l e dur i n g a thunde r s t o rm , bu t n o t if you are out i n the open .

Bu t I t h ink wha t i s o c cur r i n g he re i s t h a t t h e a l i e n s de l i b e ra t e l y avo i d k i l l in g p e op l e by e l e ct rocut i on due t o t h e c h a r ge o f t he i r m a c h i n e s . Th i s i s why t h e p reval e n ce o f app roa c h t o c a r s . S o , b y i n fe re n c e a t l e as t y o u c a n dedu c e a l i t t l e b i t ab o u t t hem , o f wha t k in d o f cre ature s t hey are . They h ave t h e i r re a s ons - - n o t e n t i re l y i nhuman o n e s .

P e rh ap s t h e ran dom , ch i l d i s h d imen s i on o f ext r a t e r ­r e s t r i a l b e h av i o r , i t s purp o s e l e s sn e s s , i s an app e aran c e o n l y; p e rh ap s i t i s on l y ou r p e rs p e c t ive o f h i ghe r purp o s e s , our i n ab i l i t y t o imme d i at e l y int e rp re t i t wh i ch make s i t s e em s en s e l e s s .

To p l un g e d e ep e r i n t o p o s s i b l e ext r a t e rre s t r i a l mo t i v e s f o r b e ing h e re , .I s u s p e ct y o u mus t g o b e yon d s imp l e , e a sy ev i d e n c e and b e c om e op e n l y s p e cu l at ive . S c i en c e is a d i a l o gue o f t he o ry and f a c t . O f t en t h e o ry h a s ran ge d far ahe ad o f i t s f a c t u a l confi rm a t i o n , and I s u s p e c t t h a t i n the UFO f i e l d t he p ayout w i l l b e b a s e d up on ve ry b o l d s p e cu l at i on , i n de e d . We mus t re a s on i f we are t o t ry to make p ro g re s s on t h e a l i en ' s mo t ive s . As a p r im e a s s ump t i o n , i t i s v e ry l i k e l y t h a t the e x t ra t e r re s t r i a l m i n d is muc h more evo l v e d t h an ours i s . The i r s i s p ro b ab ly a h i gh e r l eve l o f men t a l i ty . I me an "evo l v e d " i n a s en s e d i f f e rent from b e i n g mo re advan c e d on l y in s c i e n c e and t e chno l o gy . I am s u re t h e ext r a t e rre s t r i a l s are much c l eve re r s c i en t i�t s t h an we a re ; b u t n o t o n l y that , I t h ink they a re p rob ab l y i n a h i gh e r s t a ge o f p s y c h i c al

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devel.opmen t . T o t h ink o f t hem on ly a s s ome h ow s up e r i o r i n s c i en c e an d eng i n e e r i n g i s t h e oppo s i t e fa l l acy t o t h ink i n g o f them a s be i n g comp l e t e l y i n c omp re h en s i b l e . W e h ave t o wa l k a n a r row l in e b e tween t h in k i n g o f t h em as b e in g qu i t e un ­unde r s t andab l e t o u s , and t h in k in g , on t h e o t h e r h and , t h a t t hey a re on ly a l i t t l e b e t t e r i n th e i r e n g i n e e r i n g . I b e l i e ve we h ave h e re a race t h a t t ran s c ends us in m any s en s e s , but s t i l l has s ome re c o gn i z ab l e h uman qual i t i e s , s ome t ho ught s and c h a r a ct e r i s t i c s . We c an ' t be t o t a l ly an t h rop omo rp h i c or t o t a l l y n on- an t h rop omo rp h i c .

How c an we app r o a c h t h i s m i n d t h a t i s s up e r i o r t o t h e human m i n d ? I don ' t want t o be s o de c l a s s e a s t o b r i n g the ­o l o gy i n t o t h e que s t i on , but many o�h i s t o ry ' s b e s t m i n ds have s t rug g l e d w i t h j u s t t h i s que s t i on i n a d i f fe rent c on t ext : how to kn ow the n a t ure of G o d , how t o know H i s in tent i o n s . Th i s i s t h e g r e a t t he o l o g i c a l que s t i on . I s i t ne a r l y t h e s ame que s t i on a s : how t o know t h e n a ture , t h e purp o s e s , the me nt a l i ty , o f a h i gh e r n a t ur a l s p e c i e s ?

I s p e c i f i c a l ly don ' t want t o s u g ge s t t he e xt rat e r re s t r i a l s a re G o d ' s , but I d o s ay t h a t t h e app a ra tu s o f n a tura l t he o l o gy c an b e t aken ove r and app l i e d t o t h i s que s t i on ab out t he mind of a mo re a dvanc e d natural s p e c i e s . L e t me g i ve you a h in t o f wh at d i re c t i o n s w e m i gh t fo l l ow .

A c l a s s i c a l way t o g r asp s ome t h in g o f t h e na ture o f G o d , a me t ho d u s e d by S t . Thomas , i s c a l l e d t h e "ne ga t i ve way . " We m i gh t c a l l i t t h e "me t ho d of e l i m i n a t i on or of re s i du e s . " I n i t eve ry t h in g i s remove d f rom t he D i v i n e wh i c h c ou l d no t c h a r a c t e r i z e H im . Yo u t ake away e ve ry t h i n g t h a t you are s ure t h a t G o d i s n o t , and wh a t you h ave l e f t , t h a t i s what G od i s .

L e t u s app ly " t h e n e gat i ve way " t o the e x t ra t e rre s t r i al s .

A p o s s i b l e mo t i ve you o ft e n h e a r , p a r t i cul arly among m i l i t a ry p e op l e , is t h a t t he a l i en s are h e re for conque s t , c o l on i e s , o r imp e r i um . The s e mo t i ve s are anal o g ous to human n a t i on s ' de a l i n g s w i t h e a ch o th e r , or the h uman s p e c i e s ' de a l -

i ngs w i t h s ub h uman s p e c i e s . They a re h e re , s o th i s t h e o ry g o e s , t o e a t us o r , a t b e s t , t o e n s l ave us .

I s t h i s p l au s i b l e ? I t h in k i t i s n o t . You c an remove t h e s e mo t i ve s from your l i s t o I w i l l g i ve you two re a s on s . A s s ume t h a t e x t ra t e r re s t r i a l s come from w i t h in t he s o l a r s y s ­t e m . We kn ow t h e s o l a r s y s t em i s ab o u t 5 b i l l i on ye a r s o l d . As s ume furt h e r t h a t t h e re i s no b i o l o g i c a l c onn e ct i on b e twe e n t h e e x t r a t e r re s t r i a l s and ours e l ve s . S i n c e n e i t h e r rac e s n o r i n d i v i dua l s mat ure i n ab s o l ut e p h a s e ( they don ' t g row a t t h e s ame rat e ) , s ome p e rcen t a ge d i ffe ren c e mus t e x i s t b e tween the evo l ut i on a ry s t a ge o f the a l i en s an d our e vo l u t i on a ry s t age . Wh a t wo ul d b e a r e a s on ab l e f i gure ? S ay t hey a re 1 0 p e r c e n t ahead o f us . I n o th e r wo rds , the Ma rt i an s , o r who eve r , a re

� tha t far ahe ad in t e rms o f t h e age o f t h e s o l a r s y s t em . I f my

I ' 1.---

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a r i t hmet i c i s r i gh t , t hat mean s t h a t t hei r c iv i l iza t i o n i s ro ugh l y 500 m i l l i on yea rs o l d . They began t hei r s c ien t i f i c revo l ut i on 500 m i l l i on yea rs a g o .

B u t s ay they a re on ly 1 per cen t ahead o f us . I f my ar i t hmet i c i s aga i n r i gh t , t h a t mean s the i r c i v i l i za t i on i s 5 m i l l i on yea rs ahead . I f 1/ 10 o f 1 per cen t , they are � m i l l i o n yea rs ahead ; 1/ 100 o f one p e r cen t , 50 , 000 years a head o f us.

No t i ce that the p r ob ab i lit ies of t he ex t r a terres t r i a l s evo l v i n g to the s ame s t a ge as we are a t the s ame t ime are thus reduced to t he van i s h i n g p o i n t . In o t her wo rds , t he ex t r a ­terres t r i a l commun i ty , a s sum i n g t here i s no connec t i on between i t and u s , i s very , very o l d .

The s ame ana l y s i s c an be app l ied i f they c ome from o u t s i de t he s o l a r s y s tem . I t c ann o t be made a s exa c t but , cur i ous ly eno ugh , it i s mo re cer t a i n o Th i s i s s o bec ause mo s t nearby s t a r s a re o l der t h an t he s o l a r s y s tem .

I f t he a l ien s have been a ro un d fo r s o l on g , why wou l d t hey conquer j us t n ow ? I f t hey have c ome f o r d inner , why d i d t hey wa i t t ha t l on g ? They c ou l d get awful l y hun g ry i n 500 m i l l i o n year s , o r 5 m i l l i on yea rs o Why d i d t hey a r r i ve a t th i s c o s m i c momen t , i n s tea d o f a few m i l l i on years a go ?

There i s ano t her p o i n t : the techno l o g i c a l one . When a s o c iet y rea ches a cert a i n s t a ge , i t get s mach ines t o do i t s l ab o r and even i t s th i n k i n g . I t wou l dn't need t o rely o n t he r a t her c rude r aw s tu f fs o f t h i s Ear t h . I t wou l d h ave bet ter ways to ex i s t . Th i s seems t he t ren d of our ec onomy ; we have a r i gh t t o p ro j ec t i t fo rward up on t he a l ien ec o nomy .

Havo c a r gumen t s from t he s t an dp o i n t o f t ime and techn o l o gy a re very per s ua s ive aga in s t the ho rren dous theo r ies that our v i s i to r s are co s m i c hunters or i mper i a l i s t s .

But t here i s ano t her t heo ry: t he a l ien s a re here because they are a fr a i d of our hydro gen b omb s , s p ace p ro g ram , and s uc h . There may be a l i t t le mo re t ru t h i n t h i s . But I wou l d gues s i t depen d s very much o n how f a r away they c ome from . A s pec ies on Mars m i ght fea r our techn o l o gy ; b u t why woul d a race from near a d i s t an t s t a r fea r i t ? On Ma rs i t m i ght be a ma t ter of s ec ur i ty ; on Tau Cet a , h a r d ly . But be t h i s as it may , the rea l fa l lacy i n s uc h a t heo ry o f fear i s tha t t he ext ra terres t r i a l s have s t i mu l a ted t he very t h i n g t hey are s upp o sed t o be afra i d o f . Anyb o dy w i t h f a i r l y c lear eyes i ght c an see we are go i n g t o the mo on - - an d s o a re t he Rus s i an s - - bec ause o f t he appearan ce o f h i g her l i fe in our a tmo s p here . I f wo rry o ver Ap o l l o i s wha t the a l ien s a re a f ra i d o f , why wou l d t hey be s o obvi ous , and thus c au s e a s p ace p ro gram wh i ch wou l d n o t c ome ab out bu t fo r the i r appearan ce ? Why n o t wa i t qu iet ly , wa t c h devel opmen t s on E a r t h - ­a s t hey c an do very ef f i c ien t ly w i t h a s imp le rad i o receiver and let us b l ow eac h o ther to p ieces . F o r , un les s t hey

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in tervene , t h a t i s wh a t we are go i n g t o do . Then they wou l dn ' t have anyt h i n g to w o r ry ab ou t . So I th ink we c an el i m i n a te t he theo ry o f ex t r a ter res t r i a l fear .

A f i n a l hyp o thes i s : curi o s i ty o r exper imen t a t i on . We are s c ien t i f i c s ub j ec t s , et c . To o much hardware h a s been pu t down in t he a tm o s p here to s upp o r t th i s c onten t i on . Aga i n , why don ' t t he ex t ra ter res t r i a l s l i s ten to thei r radi o s ? They c o u l d f i nd o u t a g reat dea l ab out us. Why wou l d they put a l o t o f unnec ­ces s ary machinery down i n t o t he exper i men t a l s i t u a t i on ? The ex t ra terres t r i a l s have very def in i tely chan ged t h i n gs from wh at t hey wo u l d have been w i thout them . Th i s i s h a r d l y g o o d o b s erva ­t i on a l s c ien ce .

None o f t hese exp l an at i on s i s s u f f i c ien t . Wha t are we l e ft w i t h ? I t h in k w i t h a l ong - ran ge , c over t , devel opmen t a l p l an . I t h i n k t he a l ien s a re here to c a r ry out the l a s t s t a ges of t h i s p l an . But bef o re I o f fer my p o s i t ive groun ds for th ink i n g th i s , I ' d l ike to i n t ro duce ano t her i dea , the rel evan ce o f wh i ch I t h i nk you w i l l s ee .

A g a i n , i t a s k s t he ques t i on : h ow y o u s tu dy a men t a l i ty h i gher t h an y o u r own . But far from bei n g an swered i n terms o f theo l o gy , i t i s an swe red from an ima l p sycho l o gy . A famous p r in c i p le o f an ima l p s y c h o l o gy is L l oyd Mo r g an ' s C anon . Mo rgan s a i d i f you are in teres ted in t he mo t ive o f a do g o r c a t , an d have s evera l a l t e rn a t i ve exp l ana t i on s , you s houl d p i c k the s imp les t o ne. A do g i s c au gh t c hew in g a rug . He run s and h i des . How d o you i n terp ret t h i s ? l ia s he a gu i l t feel i n g , or wa s he a f ra i d o f bei n g bea ten ? You p i ck t he s imp les t o ne , n o t the gu i l t fee l in g , but t he fea r o f be i n g pun i s hed .

Wl1y n o t j u s t turn L l oy d Mo r gan ' s C anon a round fo r h i gher l i fe f o rms : selec t the mo s t c omp l e x mo t i ve , mo re c omp lex even t h an ours ? I f you t ry t h i s , you w i l l f i n d i t works . Your t h i nk i n g ab o u t t he ex t ra terres t r i a l purp o ses an d in ten t i o n s i s t ran s fo rmed. You do n ' t s imp l i fy the ex t ra terres t r i a l . You g i ve h i m mo re c red i t t h an h i t h e rt o ; s imp le human mo t i ves s uch as exper i men t a t i on , c o l on i a l i sm , fea r - - t hese bec ome n a i ve . By the Cano n o f C omp lex i ty you wo ul d expec t t he ex t raterres t r i a l t o b e ab ove these . And I t h in k he i s . By a devel opment a l p l an , a j un i o r s pec ies wh i ch wo ul d perh ap s t a ke many cen tur ies t o evo l ve a h i gher tec hn o l o gy c o u l d b e s t i mu l ated b y c l andes t ine t r ans fer o f s c ien ce an d techn o l o gy . Th i s i s 't he mo s t comp l ex f o rm o f mo t i ve I c an t h i nk o f . I n o t her w o r d s , the ex t r a terres ­t r i a l s c an be expec ted t o h ave mo re s op h i s t i c a ted p u rp o ses t h an we have ackn ow ledged s o far .

The ex t ra ter res t r i a l may b e t ran s ferr i n g s c ien ce t o u s , and I t h i n k there a re a number o f i n s t an ces in t he h i s t o ry o f s c i en ce wh i ch p ro b ab ly c an o n l y b e exp l a i ned i n th i s way . One h a s been d i s c o vered by Pro fes s o r C h a r l es Ii. Hapgo o d , who s tud ied w i t h t he me d i ev a l p o r t o l an o map s , n av i ga t o r ' s chart s da t in g from the F o u r teen t h Cen t u ry; they revea l a leve l o f t op o grap h i c

9

t e chn ique wh i ch c ou l d n o t have e x i s t e d at t h a t t ime (Map s of t he An c i en t Se a K ings ( ( Ph i l ade l p h i a: Ch i l t o n B o o k s , 19 6 5 ] . Profe s s o r Hap g o o d foun d t h a t the me d i eval c h a rt o grap h e r s who drew t he p o r t o l an o c h a rt s unde r s t o o d l on g i t ude , they w e re ab l e t o dep i c t the Me d i t e rran e an S e a t o one de gre e o f accuracy . P r ac t i c a l l y t h i s c o u l d n o t h ave be en done b e fo re t h e ch ronome t e r wa s deve l op e d i n t h e re i gn o f G e o rge I I I by John H a r r i s on . Whe re d i d th e s e map s c ome from w i t h t he i r as t on i s h i n g l o n g i ­tud i n a l ac cur a cy ? I s u s p e c t they may have b e en a t ransfe r of e c onomi c a l ly u s efu l t e chno l o gy .

P rofe s s o r G e r a l d Hawk in s ' s tud i e s of S t onehenge ( S tone ­henge De c o d e d ( ( G a rden C i t y: Doub l e day & Co . , 1965 ) ) and P rofe s s o r A l e xande r Thorn ' s wo r k (Wa r Sc i ent i s t , Ju l y 2 , 19 6 4 , an d Ma rch 1 3 , 1 9 6 4 ) on o t he r En g l i s h me g a l i t h s i n d i c a t e t h a t the re was a l e ve l o f a s t ronom i ca l mathema t i c s imp re s s e d i n t o t h e s e ruin s wh i ch i t i s ve ry d i f f i cu l t t o be l i e ve c o u l d h ave b e e n w o rke d up by a p r i m i t ive p e op l e . Here a g a i n may h ave b e en t e chno l o g i c a l t ran s fe r : a s ch o o l , an eff o r t to ra i s e t he l e ve l o f human s c i en c e an d s o c i e t y , an d p e rhap s f a i l ure .

Work I h ave b e en do i n g on t h e New Wor l d : B e c au s e cul t ure an d c i vil iza t i on deve l op e d h e re l a t e r , the re may be more t rac e s o f t h i s t ran s fe r p r o c e s s . I t h ink one do e s f i n d s ome fa i r ly s us p i c i o u s c a s e s: t h e ce ram i c pot app e a re d a lmo s t s imul t an e ous l y i n d iffe rent p art s o f t h e he m i s p he re s , app ar en t ly w i t hout any c onne c t i on . Aga i n , t h e l e gends of t he Azt e c s an d I nc a s t e l l o f s ome one who c ame from t h e s ky a n d gave them the i r cul ture .

One f i n a l in s t an c e - - my t ime i s g o i n g o n . The Dark Age s have t r ad i t i on a l l y b e en c on c e i ve d of as a p e r i o d of t o t a l s t a gn a t i on i n p o l i t i c s , e conom i c s , l i t e rature , i n eve ryt h in g . Sudde n l y s e ve ra l ye a r s a g o Lynn Wh i t e , Jr . , of the Un ive r s i ty of C a l ifo rn i a a t B e rke l e y , foun d out t h ey we re a p e r i o d of ma rve l ou s e co n om i c p ro g re s s . A g r i c u l t ur a l t e c hn o l o gy made b re ak t h ro u gh s in the N i n t h to the F i f t e en t h C e n tur i e s in We s t e rn Europe wh i c h t h e Roman s an d G re e k s were n e ve r ab l e t o t h i n k of: t he s t i rrup , h o rs e s ho e , imp rove d harn e s s , the me chan i ­c a l c r ank , an d s o fo r th . ( Me d i eva l Te chn o l ogy and So c i a l Change ( ( Oxfo rd , 1962) ) I t may b e t h at w i t h the c o l l ap s e of t he C l a s s i c a l Wo r l d , a n ew at t e mp t wa s made w i t h t he b arb a rous p e op l e , an a t t emp t t o pus h t he m a l on g the road to a h i ghe r t e c hn o l o gy .

S o I t h ink i t i s a deve l opmen t a l p l an, and I t h in k t h a t o n l y by a s s um i n g t h a t i t i s a deve l opmen t al p l an c an y o u s o l ve the mo r a l que s t i o n ra i s e d by t h e ext r a t e rre s t r i a l s . I f they have b e en a ro un d fo r thous an ds , p e rhap s m i l l i on s of y e ar s , if t h ey have wa t che d the a go ny o f l ife up on the E a r t h , wat che d the g r e a t wars and t h e l e s s e r wa r s , wa t che d t h e ep i d e m i c s , why have t hey n o t l an de d and he lp e d us out ? Why have t hey no t done s ome t h i n g ? Why have t he y n o t g i ven us a cure fo r cancer or tub e rcul o s i s ?

I

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10

If t here i s a deve l opmen t a l p l an , the mo r a l ques t i on i s met w i thout a s s um i n g t h a t t he ex t ra terres t r i a l spec ies i s mo ra l l y hea r t l es s , h a s devo l ved i n t o a s t ate o f mo r a l turp i tude or mo r a l dec ay . They may i n deed c a re a b o u t s u ffer i n g b u t are t ry in g t o a ccelera te our p ro g res s , perhap s u l t ima tely f o r a mo ra l purp o s e . They may have p on dered the d i s a dvan t a ges o f s udde n l y g i v i n g u s thei r s c ien ce i n t o t o , ful l b l own a g a in s t a g reat cul t u r a l s ho c k t o o u r s pec ies. --rf t hey t ran s ferred t o us every t h in g , we m i ght l ie down and en j oy i t . They may have o ff ­set t h i s a g a in s t t he p r im i t i ve s u f fer in gs o f our race for a few cen t u r ies o r mi l l enn i a . They may be qu iet l y t ry i n g t o set t h in g s up for our l on g - term benef i t .

Wel l , why wou l d t hey c ome i n t o the open now? One reas on m i gh t b e t h a t t he t h rus t o f our tec hn o l o gy h a s c aus ed very ser i ous techn o l o g i c a l h aza rds fo r u s . We a l l know thes e s t andard c a s es : hy dro gen b omb s , c o b a l t b omb s , b i o l o g i c a l war ­fare , c hem i c a l p o i s on in g o f the a t m o s phere , et c . There a re perh ap s o ther h aza r d s we don't kn ow a b ou t wh i ch may be mo re d an gero us t o us than we rea l i z e e P resumab l y i t i s imp o s s i b le t o t r an s fer o n l y u sefu l bu t n o des t ruc t ive techno l o gy . The s ame p ro ces s es may b e used fo r war o r pea ce . I f t he t h rus t o f s c i en ce i s a l l owed t o cont i nue un i nh i b i ted , t he l i fe o f our s pec ies c o u l d c ome to an end , o r be s et b a c k in a terr i b le way . Perhap s t he o n l y way t o i n f l uen ce the c o u r se o f event s i s for t he ex t rat erres t r i a l s t o c ome o u t i n the open .

Wha t a re t hey g o i n g t o do nex t ? Th i s i s the h a rd p a r t . I d on't kn ow . But I c an o ffer a s pecul a t i on . I th ink that i n 5 to 2 0 yea r s - - b u t cert a i n l y n o l on ger t h an 5 0 yea rs a p r o tec t o r a te w i l l be es t ab l i s hed . I t h i n k s ome p o l i t i c a l and ec onomi c c on t ro l may be p reemp ted by t he ext ra terres t r i a l spec ies . Jus t how th i s w i l l b e done , I don't kn ow , b u t I t h i nk i t may be comin g .

Th i s may be t he rea s on for t he i n c rease o f rep o r t s in cer ­t a i n l o c a l a reas o ver a per i o d o f t imeo The ext ra terres t r i a l s may be s t a rt i n g t o es t ab l i s h themselves p hy s i c a l l y in the mar ­g i n s o f o u r w o r l d . I f t hey beg i n a d i a l o gue wit h us , i t may a c c omp any g ra du a l i n terven t i on - - the bes t wo rd I c an f i n d - ­

i n to o u r a f f a i rs . They may q u i et l y t ake cha r ge o f t he fut ure o f o u r spec ies , s o t h a t we c an s urv i ve s c iences I am un ab le t o p red i ct , a t l ea s t a t t h i s p o i n t , t he exa c t fo rm an d t ime t ab le o f s uc h i n t erven t i o n . I d o n o t bel ieve i t i s om i n o u s , a l t h ou gh i t may be unp lea s a n t t o s ome . I t h i nk i t wi l l be f i l led w i t h hope .

I have 10 mo re m inutes . I d i dn ' t f in d o ut whet her we have any ques t i on s i n th i s s es s i on o r n o t . How woul d you l i ke 10 m i n u tes o f ques t i on s ? A l l r i gh t . Who ha s go t t he f i rs t o ne ? Yes , w ay i n t he b a c k . Y o u w i l l h ave t o s h out .

Q How c ome you c a l l t hem UFOs i f y o u be l ieve t hey a re f l y i n g s aucer s ? How c an you s ay t hey a re un i den t i f ied i f you

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know wha t t hey a re?

P ROFE S SOR EVAN S : Oh , j us t c o n s i s tency w i t h p opul a r term i n o l o gy . I don ' t t h i n k mo s t peop le know what "ex t r a ter ­res t r i a l " mean s .

Q Wha t a re t he s ources o f t h i s i n fo rma t i o n ? What s ources o f i n fo rm a t i on do y o u u s e ?

P RO FE S SO R EVANS : Wel l , f o r t he who le lec ture , o r t h e one p a r t o f i t ?

Q Any p ar t .

P ROFE S SO R EVANS : Wel l , that i s a rea l ly b ibl i o grap h i c a l q ues t i on . There i s a n awful l o t o f i n fo rmat i on aroun d . There a re , oh , maybe 1 5 g o o d b o ok s , maybe 2 0 b o o k s t h a t are marg i n a l , a l o t o f news let ters .

Q Name one .

PROF E S S O R EVAN S : The bes t t h i n g i s C ap t a i n E dwa rd Ruppel t ' s Repo rt o n t he UFOs , pub l i s hed by Doub leday . Ja cque Val l ee ' s The An a t omy o f a-Phen omenon , an d Chal l eng� t o Sc i en ce a re ex cel l en t . I don ' t know i f I am a l l owed t o men t i on the many compet i n g b o o k s we h ave on d i sp lay a t t h i s conven t i o n .

Q Are y o u t ry in g t o s ay t ha t fo r s ome my s te r i o u s rea s on o f t hei r own t hey h ave devel oped a mo r a l c o n s c ien ce and t hey a re here i n s ome way t o p ro tec t us ? Why ? What do they c are ?

PROFE S SO R EVANS : a mo r a l c o n s c i ou s nes s . ter res t r i a l wo r l d s .

I t h i n k s ome human bei n g s have devel oped Maybe t h a t has devel oped o n t he ex t ra -

The t h i n g t h a t d i s t i n gu i s hes m an from b rute i s rea s on . Now , wha t i s g o i n g to h ap pen i n t he fu ture? Are we j u s t go i n g t o get b r i ghter ? Un l i kel y . There i s o ne o f the t h i n g s t h a t c h a r ac ter izes evo l u t i on : t he qua l i t a t i ve leap . The o n l y qual i ­t at i ve l eap I c an t h i n k o f i s evo l ut i on i n t o a h i gher et h i c a l o r mo ra l p l ane .

I am s o rry t o d i s app o i n t you . Many peop l e wan t t o bel ieve b a d l y ab out t he ex t ra terres t r i a l s . I f t he ex t ra ter res t r i a l s a re mo re mo r a l t h an we are , we may j us t h ave t o get used t o i t .

Q I s t here an i n t ern at i o n a l movemen t under UFOs ? Are there any in fo rmat i on b o o k s , and i s res ea rch done in var i ou s c on t inen t s a n d c o unt r ies ?

P RO F E S SO R EVAN S : Wel l , yes , a lmo s t every - - I am rea l l y n o expert o n th i s , there are s ome peop le here t ha t are - ­a lm o s t every c o un t ry h a s i t s UFO gro up , a s i de from C ommun i s t C h in a ; I a s s ume t hey a re a l l i n t he s a l t m i nes . There are

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a numb e r o f s o - c a l l e d i n t e rn a t i o n a l g roup s . I t cou l d b e that the Un i t e d N a t i on s t ake s qu i t e an acute i n t e r e s t i n t he s ub ­j e c t . I f c on t a c t doe s c ome e ven t ua l l y b e twe en t he human s p e c i e s and an e xt ra t e rre s t r i a l s p ec i e s , the e xt r a t e r re s ­t r i a l s m i ght p re fe r t o commun i c a t e wi th rep re s en t at i ve s o f al l human i t y , n o t j us t o f o n e n at i on o r group o f nat i on s .

Q I f they a re s o authen t i c , h ow i s i t t h a t t hey don ' t c ome down i n t he c i t i e s a n d i n t he s t re e t s an d t a l k t o t h e p e op l e ? A l l we he a r i s wh a t eve ryb o dy s e e s in t h e s ky .

PRO FE S S O R EVAN S : The que s t i on , then , i s : Why don ' t t he y t a l k t o us ?

Q Why don ' t they c ome down amo n g t he p e op l e ?

PROFESSOR EVAN S : One re a s o n m i gh t be - - i f t he c on t ac t e e s a r e r i gh t , they m ay h ave t a l ke d t o us . But a s s ume t h e con ­t ac t e e s a re n o t r i ght . They m i gh t t h in k t h a t c on t ac t wou l d c au s e c u l t u ra l s ho c k . Ye t I s us p e c t p rob ab l y the re i s a s ub t l e r re a s on t h an t h i s � S ay y o u h ave a s o c i e t y (not ours ) wh i ch h a s e vo l ve d mo ra l ly t o a p o i n t whe re they don ' t l i ke v i o l en c e . T h i s s o c i e ty re a l i z e s w e are go i n g t o h ave to have our a rm tw i s t e d a l i t t l e b i t in o rde r for us to s urv i ve . How do you tw i s t the a rm ? B l ow up a few c i t i e s ? They c o u l d do that , b u t they do n o t wan t t o , by hyp o thesi s . S o p e rh ap s t hey are c re at i n g a c a l cul a t e d au ra of my s t e ry wh i ch l e ave s us in doub t ab out t he i r n at u re and purp o s e s ; t h i s c ou l d be us e d as a p sy ch o l o g i c a l l e ver i n o rde r t o even t ua l l y g e t u s t o do wha t t hey want us t o do �

Q Mayb e t he y don ' t s p e ak t o us b e c aus e t h ey commun i c a t e on l y t h rough t e l ep at hy , s ome t h i n g w e a r e j ust s t udy in g r i gh t n ow . We a re j us t ge t t in g t o t e l ep a t hy .

PROFESSOR EVAN S : I c an t h i n k o f s eve ra l me c h an i c a l o r e l e ct r i c a l i n s trument a l i t i e s b e tw e e n t he i r bo d i e s and ours t o c o mmun i c a t e .

Q Why d i dn ' t t hey s t op t he wo r l d wa r ?

F ROM THE FLOOR : Wha t wa s t h e que s t i on ?

P RO FE S S O R EVAN S : A s I s a i d , they m ay b e t ra d i n g o ff the adv an t a g e s of a p remat ure i n t e rvent i on in our a f fa i rs a g a i n s t t he d i s a dvan t a ge o f c u l t ur a l s ho c k .

Q How do y o u fe e l ab o u t t h e t h e o ry t h a t UFOs m i ght b e c om i n g f rom t h e c e n t e r o f t he Eart h ?

PROFE S S O R EVAN S : I fe e l ne g a t i ve l y a b o u t i t .

Q Wh a t i s the c h an c e you are one o f t h e m ?

1 3

PROFESSOR EVAN S : I don ' t know .

I ' m s o rry . We h ave e n de d t he que s t i on p e r i o d . (App l aus e . )

MRo MOSELEY : B e fore we go i n t o our in t e rm i s s i on , I have a c oup l e of ann o un c emen t s . I s e e i n our aud i e n c e one o f our s p e ak e r s fo r tomo rrow n i ght who i s one of t he b est i n f o rme d p e op l e t ha t I know on fly i n g s auc e rs i n many o f t he i r p h i l o ­s oph i c a l imp l i c a t i on s , t h e Reve rend Ri c h ard B as i l eo (App l aus e . )

( I n t e rm i s s i on � )

MR . MOSELEY : Be f o re we s t art our s e co n d h a l f , I have a c o up l e o f UFO c e l e b r i t i e s I woul d l i ke t o i n t roduce . One , I don ' t know i f h e i s i n t he room r i gh t n ow . I f G ray B a rk e r , who i s kn own t o mo s t o f you , one o f t he mo s t famous e d i t o r s and pub l i s h e r s i n t h i s f i e l d , i s he re , w i l l h e p l e as e s t an d up an d t ak e a b ow ? (App l aus e e ) I d i dn ' t s e e h im , bu t app a ren t ly s ome o f you d i d .

The n e xt one , I know i s h e re , an d we are go i n g t o s ay ve ry b r i e f ly j us t a " He l l o " to Al ex McNe i l l , a ve ry we l l known con ­t a c t e e i n th i s a re a . (Ap p l au s e . )

Nex t , we wi l l h ave our s e c o n d s p e aker o f the e ve n i n g . T h i s man h a s b e en ve ry p rominent in New Y o rk r a d i o and t e l e ­v i s i on fo r m any y e a r s . He i s a ve ry k in d , wonde r fu l man w

·ho

h a s done me s ome f in e f avo rs fo r wh i c h I am ve ry g r a t eful ; and h e i s ve ry k in d t o g ive t h i s t ime t o c ome h e re t on i gh t . He has g i ven us a gre a t de a l o f p ub l i c i ty on h i s radi o s how o n WC I X . He h a s a f i lm wh i ch , t o m e , i s o n e o f t he mo s t i n t e r ­e s t in g I h a ve s e en . I ha d t h e ple a s u re o f s e e i ng t h e f i l m about s i x mon t h s a go when h e i n tro duc e d i t t o our l o c a l We dne s day group i n o u r Hote l Wo o d s t oc k . Th i s wi _ l l be a c o l ­l e c t i o n o f f i l m p a rt l y de vo t e d t o n arrat i o n by our sp e ake r and p a rt l y d e vo t e d t o s ound � At t h i s t ime I g i ve you Art F o r d . L a d i e s a n d gent l emen , Art F o r d! ( App l aus e . )

( Rep o r t e r ' s No t e : Mr . F o rd i n f o rme d me that eve ry t h in g h e s a i d a t the conven t i on , a s we l l a s the mo vi e , " Th e Le gend of F l i gh t 1 9 , " wa s copy r i gh t e d and it wou l d b e a v i o l a t i on o f the copy r i gh t s fo r me t o reproduce them he re . H e i n f o rmed me t h a t h i s t a l k was ava i l ab l e in p amp h l e t fo rm. Mr . F o r d ' s a ddre s s i s : P . O . B o x 1 8 8 , V i l l ag e S t a t i on , New York , N . Y . )

MR . MOSELEY : Be fo re we end our p ro g ram ton i ght , I wan t t o i n t ro duce one o r two p e op l e t o the aud i en c e , one whom we i n t e n de d to i n t ro duce b e fo re , b u t by t he t ime he p e ne t r a t e d from t he out s i de ro om , w e h a d g o n e t o s ome t h in g e l s e , and th a t i s Mr . Al e x McNe i l l , a ve ry famous c on t a c t e e . I s he h e re ?

F ROM THE F LOOR : H e re h e i s .

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MR . MOSELEY : The re h e i s ove r i n t he fa r r i ght c o rn e r . He w i l l b e s ay i n g a few wo rds he re p e rh ap s t omo rrow a ft e rn o on , I b e l i e ve .

B e fo re we b r e ak up -- k e ep your s e at s for a moment -- I have a ve ry i n t e re s t in g and imp o rt an t ann ounc emen t . I don ' t know whe t he r t h i s gen t l eman wi l l b e w i l l in g to s t an d up o r n o t an d p o s s i b l y s ay a few wo r ds . I doub t i f he wan t s to s ay anyt h i n g . We h ave no i n t ent i on o f i n s i s t i n g , b u t the h e a d o f the Co l o rado s c i en t i f i c p r o j e c t o n UFOs , t h i s ve ry famo us p a rt y t hat is work i n g w i th t he A i r F o r c e i n dep en den t l y t ry i n g t o s o l ve t h e mys t e ry , Dr . Edwar d Condon , i s i n our aud i en ce t on i gh t . ( Ri s i n g app l au s e . ) We a re ve ry p l e a s e d t h a t h e c arne t o our me e t i n g and fe e l s t h a t i t i s s ome t h i n g that i s wo r t h h i s t irneo I am ve ry g l ad t h a t he i s he re .

(Dr . Condon s t o o d and a c know l e d ge d t he app l aus e but d i d n o t s p e ak . )

MR . MOSELEY : L a d i e s and gen t l emen , we a re go i n g to b r e ak up fo r t on i ght . I hop e you re a l i z e we h ave t h ree mo re s e s s i on s . Two o ' c l o c k t omo rrow a ft e rn o on is the next s e s s i on .

Thank y o u ve ry much an d go o d n i ght .

SATURDAY AFTERNOON SES S I ON , JUNE 2 4 , 1 9 6 7 , 2 : 0 0 P . M .

M I S S RHONA ST I R I S S : He l l o , a l l. We l c ome t o t he Fourth Annu a l Conve n t i on o f S c i en t i f i c U fo l o g i s t s . I am M i s s UFO , and I wou l d l i ke t o in t r o duce o u r Cha i rman , Mr . Jame s Mo s e l ey .

MR . MOSELEY : Thank you ve ry much . I wi l l g i ve you a ga in a run down o f t h e s e s s i on s t h a t a re corn i n g up . I n j us t a mome n t we wi l l he ar our f i rs t fe ature d sp e ake r fo r t h i s a ft e r ­n oo n , Dr . F rank S t ran ge s . Then , i f you h ave a p ro gram , i t s ay s I v an S an de r s on i s n e x t , b u t t h at i s n o t r i gh t . I v an San de r s on w i l l b e on Sun day . The ac t u a l p ro g ram th i s a ft e r ­n o on i s F rank S t ran g e s fo l l owe d b y S t ewart Rob b and , f i n a l l y , John Ke e l . We h ave exchan ge d John Kee l fo r I van S an de rs on b e c au s e it wa s mo re c onven i en t for b o t h o f t hem .

Th i s e ve n i n g we h ave a p ro gram a lmo s t l i ke t he one t h a t w e wro t e out , e x c e p t t h a t Ray P a l me r h a s no t b e en ab l e t o come an d w i l l n o t b e h e re fo r t he c onven t i on . So we h ave G r ay B a rk e r s t a rt i n g out t h e s e s s i on t h i s eve n i n g . We h ave , as t h e p ro g r am s ay s , R i chard B as i l e , B o b B a rry , and The Ama z in g Ran d i . On e add i t i on t o t h a t l i s t i s Par i s F l arnrnonde , who i s Long John Neb e l ' s f o rme r p r o duc e r ove r a t WOR . S o t ha t ' s the p ro g ram fo r t h i s even i n g .

F o r Sun day a ft e rn o on , the l a s t s e s s i on , t he p ro gram i s

15

Long J ohn Ne b e l int rodu c i ng Howard Men ge r , one s p e c i a l gue s t , a n ew c o n t act e e t h a t Lo n g John h a s re c e nt ly d i s c ove re d , a woman n ame d V i - Venus - - w h a t e ve r t ha t me an s , and t he n I van S an de rs o n rep l ac i n g John Kee l , and p o s s i b ly Dan i e l F ry . We are n o t s ure ye t , as we haven ' t h e a r d from h im in qu i t e a wh i l e . We don ' t know i f h e wi l l b e he re o r n o t . As you kn ow , t he re is s ome f l e x i b i l i ty i n th i s . We c an ' t b e s u re un t i l the l a s t m i n u t e who wi l l s how up and h ow the s e th i n g s we h ave s ch e dul e d wi l l t u rn out . We h a d t he s e s ch e dul e s out about two we e k s a go and we gave the mo s t a c c u r at e i n fo rmat i on we h a d a t t h a t t ime .

One o t h e r announc emen t , an d t hen we wi l l b r i n g on o u r fe a t ure d s p e ak e r . S ome o n e h a s a s ke d me t o announ ce t wo fo r t hcom i n g F l y i n g Sauce r Convent i on s . The f i r s t i s c a l l e d t he S out he a s t e rn F l y i n g Sauc e r Convent i on . I t wi l l b e h e l d a t C l ay t on , G e o r g i a , o n Jul y 1 5 t h an d 1 6 th o f th i s y e ar . The s e c on d e ve n t in t h e s e r i e s i s t h e El eve n t h Annual S p a c e ­c raft Convent i on , C l e rmon t Ho t e l , B e rk e l ey , C a l i fo rn i a , O c t o b e r 2 1 s t an d 2 2 n d o f t h i s y ear . Ano t he r t h i n g I wou l d l i k e t o ann o un c e . I don ' t h ave t he de t a i l s i n fron t o f me . I am s u re t hat t h e re w i l l b e a c onvent i o n at G i an t Ro c k Ai r ­p o rt i n Yuc c a Va l l ey , C a l i fo rn i a , t h i s y e a r , j us t a s the re i s e ve ry ye a r , s ome t ime in O c t ob e r . Whe n I get t h a t d a t e , I w i l l g i ve i t t o you . P o s s i b ly our n e xt s p e ak e r wi l l know , b e c aus e h e h a s a t t e n de d t he s auce r c o nven t i on s ve ry o ft en .

Our f i r s t s p e ake r t o day come s t o us a l l t he way f rom C a l i fo rn i a . He e xp e c t s us to be at t hat conven t i on . He h a s r a re l y b e e n ab l e t o m a k e a n Eas t e rn t our a s he i s do i n g now , a n d we a re ve ry , ve ry hono r e d t o have h im w i t h us . He h a s a f i n e do cumen t a ry f i l m . He h a s a g r e at de a l o f add i t i o n a l i n f o rmat i ono H e i s a man who h a s app e are d do z en s a n d do z en s o f t ime s on n a t i o n a l rad i o and t e l e v i s i on . H e i s ve ry we l l known t o t h e p ub l i cQ I am s u re he i s ve ry w e l l known t o a l l o f you .

( F rank S t ran ge s , P h . D� , P s . D . , i s a memb e r o f t h e I nt e r ­n a t i on a l P l at f o rm As s o c i at i on and t he Wa s h in gt o n As s o c i at i on fo r S o c i a l P s yc h o l o gy . A ·m i n i ste r who h a s turn e d h i s a t t en ­t i on mo re an d mo re t o t h e f l y i n g s auce r p h e n omenon i n re cent ye a r s , h e is one of the n a t i on ' s mo s t art i cul ate l e ct ure r s on t h e s ub j e c t o As D i re c to r of t he Na t i on a l I nve s t i g a t i on s Com ­m i t t e e o n UFOs , h e adqu a rt e re d i n Van Nuys , C a l i fo rn i a , Dr . S t ran ge s h a s ac c e s s t o a va s t amo un t o f UFO i n fo rmat i on . )

DR . F RAN K S T RAN GES : G re e t i n g s , S auce r Pe op l e ! I wou l d l i k e t o t a ke th i s opp o rtun i ty t o t hank t ho s e o f you who l o o k e d i n on t h e A l l en B u r k e f i a s c o t h e o t h e r e ven i n g . W e w i l l a l s o b e on w i th h im t h i s c o m in g Mon day n i gh t , s o t h at w i l l an swe r many o f your qu e s t i on s .

How m any o f you h ave e ve r s e en any th in g i n t h e s ky �h at

16

you c on s i dere d un i de n t i f i e d -- in o t he r words , you don ' t know wh a t i t was . You are amon g f r i ends he re . L e t ' s s e e your han d s nowo ( Showi n g o f h an ds � ) How many o f you h ave n e ve r s e en any th i n g unus ual ? May I a s k to s e e your h an d s ? ( Sh ow i n g o f han d s . ) Some o f you s t i l l haven ' t r a i s e d your h an ds . How many of you don ' t g i ve a ho o t whe t h e r you s e e them o r n o t ? ( L aught e r an d a few hands ra i s e d e ) How many o f you wou l d l i k e to s e e a f l y i n g s auce r ? ( Sh ow i n g o f h an ds . ) A l mo s t eve ryb o dy .

We h ave j us t c o mp l e t e d a un i ve rs i t y an d c o l l e ge t ou r o f the S t at e o f F l o r i d a w i th g re at s u cc e s s , an d w e a s k e d t he s e s ame que s t i on s ; and I h ave a s k e d s e ve ra l mo re wh i ch I am go i n g t o put t o y ou n ow . I f , in fact , a f l y i n g s auc e r as we know a f l y i n g s au c e r t o b e wou l d lan d i n Cent ral Park and you happ en ­e d t o b e n e a r t h e re , how many o f you wou l d go towa rd t he ob j e c t ? (S howi n g o f h an d s . ) How many o f you wou l d go t he o t he r d i re c t i on ? Now , l e t ' s b e hone s t . ( Showin g o f h an ds . ) How many o f y o u s ay , " Do c , I don ' t know what I wou l d do , but I wou l d be w i l l in g to find o ut " ? I h aven ' t a rran ge d any t h in g , b u t i t wou l d b e i n t e re s t in g - - -

B e fo r e I go any fu rthe r , l e t m e j us t s t at e my p o s i t i on re lat ive t o t he Un i t e d S t a t e s A i r F o r c e . My humb l e op in i on i s t h i s : I b e l i eve we have t he f i ne s t a i r fo rce i n t h e who l e c o t t on - p i c k i n g wo r l d . I r e a l l y doo (App l aus e . ) Now , s ome one s a i d I wa s at w a r wi t h the A i r F o r c e . Th i s is no t t rue � I j us t w i s h they wou l d t e l l t he t ruth . T h a t ' s a l lo (App l aus e . ) But when my n ew b o o k , F lyi ng S au c e rama , c ame out ( we h ap p e n t o h ave a few hun d re d cop i e s w i t h u s ) , I wro t e t o t h e C I A . How many of you know what C IA i s ? Con fus i on I n Ac t i on. I s a i d : " G e n t l emen , I h ave g o t a b oo k c omin g o u t , and I wou l d l i k e t o h ave a l l ava i l ab l e i n fo rmat i on . " We l l , you a s k a s tup i d que s ­t i on and you wi l l ge t a s t up i d ans we r o I won ' t r e a d i t a l l , b u t i t i s o n p a ge 8 5 o f the b o o ke Tho s e o f you who h ave the b o ok c an s i n g t o ge t h e r he re . I t say s : " I have b e en a s ke d t o a dv i s e y o u t hat t h e Cent r a l I n t e l l i ge n c e Agency doe s n o t make p ub l i c any i n fo rmat i on on un i den t i f i e d f l y i n g ob j e c t s . " At the b o t t om o f t he l e t t e r they p ut t he s e wo rds , " P l e a s e de s t roy . " Be fore we de s t roy e d i t , I h a d i t cop i e d in . I d i d wan t t o k e ep a few cop i e s .

L ad i e s an d gen t l emen , g e t t i n g t o t h e s e r i ous p a rt o f UFO re s e arch , we s t a rt e d our i nve s t i ga t i on i n t o the famou s UFO p h e n omen a in 19 4 5 . I wou l d j us t l i k e t o b r i n g yo� qu i ck l y up to d a t e b e f o re we ro l l the f i l m , b e c au s e I know tha t many o f y o u a re v i t a l l y i n t e re s t e d i n t h i s p h e n omenon; o t h e rw i s e , you wou l dn ' t b e w a s t in g a b e aut i fu l S a t urday a ft e rn o on to come and h e a r u s .

F o r many y e a rs t he Un i t e d S t a t e s A i r F o r c e h a s con t e n de d t h a t t hey h ave n o t one s in g l e i o t a o f t an g i b l e e v i dence that

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UFOs are i n t e rt e rre s t r i a l in o r i g i n . But , i f you w i l l v i s i t Wa s h in g t o n , a s we h ave done , and you que s t i on s ome o f t he s e f in e l e a de rs , s ome o f the s e f in e m i l i t a ry men , and s ome o f the s e f i ne p o l i t i c i an s , y o u w i l l f i n d t h at s ome w i l l a gr e e w i t h the p re s en t gove rnment al p o l i cy wh i l e , on the o t he r h an d , o t he rs w i l l d i s a g r e eo They t o l d me t he Ame r i c an pub l i c i s n o t r e a dy t o re c e i ve t h e t rut h about UFOs , b e c au s e you w i l l go out and c o mm i t s u i c i d e . ( Laught e ro) P l e as e don ' t do i t t h i s a ft e r ­n o o n . We don ' t wan t t o g e t a b ad rep ut a t i on he re . ( L au gh t e r . ) But , n e ve rt h e l e s s , to quo t e , t h ey s ay t h e fe ar o f mas s hy s te r i a k e ep s t h e p ub l i c from know i n g t he t rut h ab out UFO s ; b u t i f you s e e o n e , wr i t e t o t h e A i r F o rce and reque s t a que s t i onn a i re fo r y o u t o t e l l t hem a l l ab out t h e t h i n g they t e l l you do e s n o t e x i s t .

I f you s e e an un i de n t i f i e d f l y i n g o b j e c t , s t and s t i l l - ­don ' t move ; an d wh i l e you are s t an d i n g s t i l l , l o ok at t he ob j e c t and s l ow l y ra i s e your a rm , an d get your t humb l i ke s o ( demon s t ra t i n g ) , a im a t i t ( I c an j u s t s e e s ome o f you in T ime s Square do i n g th i s ) , an d g e t r e a dy to p rop e r l y i de nt i fy t h e app a rent s i z e o f t h e UFO . And a ft e r you h ave de t e rm i n e d wh a t s i z e i t i s , s t op and t ak e o u t your p en an d get out your app l i c at i on an d d o ub l e - ch e c k i to Che ck it yours e l f and t hen c h e c k o n e . They have n i n e c a t e go r i e s fo r you to f i l l out . Jus t c h e c k one . " P i n h e a d , " and t h e n che ck i t a g a i no No . " S i z e o f a gre en p e a , " " s i z e o f a d ime , " " s i z e o f a n i ck e l , " " s i z e o f a h a l f - do l l ar; " and t hen t hey move ove r i n the fru i t dep a rtment : "s i z e o f an o ran ge , " " s i z e of a grap e fru i t . " Then t hey h ave go t the wo rd " l a r ge rm " I wro t e i n "wat e rme l on . " ( L aught e r and app l aus e . )

I t app e a rs t o me t ha t s ome t h in g s t i n k s , and i t i s not che e s e . The re i s s ome t h in g i n c on s i s t e n t w it h a p o l i cy o f h an d i n g out a q ue s t i onn a i re and t hen t e l l in g p e op l e t hey don ' t e x i s t .

Now , I was t o l d by a c on gre s s man in C a l i fo rn i a that a s e c o n d re a s on t h a t p e op l e do n o t re ce ive t h e t rut h about UFOs an d/ o r the p re s en c e of int e rp l an e t a ry v i s i t o rs wal k in g amo n g u s i s t h e fe ar o f t he up s e t o f the b a l ance o f p o l i t i c a l p owe r . T h e que s t i on wa s p u t t o t h em , "Wh a t a r e y o u t a l k i n g ab o ut ? " T he y c arne b a c k w i t h t h e an s we r :

"We l l , we are n o t s ay i n g i t d i d h app e n , b u t i f a man wou l d c ome from ano t he r w o r l d , l an d he re on t h i s Ea rt h , an d s how us h ow t o ge t a l o n g w i t ho ut s i c kn e s s and d i s e a s e - - s t op the re , " h e s a i d , " s t op t h e re . " He s a i d , " I f they c ou l d t e l l u s how t o g e t al o n g wi t hout s i ckne s s an d d i s e a s e , t he drug t ru s t s woul d go b an k rup t , the h o s p i t a l s woul d go out of b us i ­n e s s , t he o ut f i t s t ha t c h a rge you $ 1 5 f o r a s ho t t ha t no rm a l l y c o s t s 3 � c en t s , t h e out f i t t h at s e l l s y o u a p i l l t o p ut y o u t o s l e e p and a p i l l t o w a k e you u p in t he mo rn in g an d a p i l l t o e at a l i t t l e mo re a n d a p i l l t o e a t a l i t t l e l e s s an d a p i l l

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t h a t wi l l wo rk on you - - a l l d i f fe rent c o l o rs - - a l l hours of the day " - - t he " t ime c ap s u l e , " you s e e - - " t hey wou l d a l l g o out o f b u s in e s s i f t h i s b e i n g wou l d t e l l us how t o ge t a l on g w i th out s i c kne s s and d i s e as e o " Th i s , t o me , i s not a go o d e n o u gh an s we r fo r a con gre s sman from the St at e o f C a l i ­fo rn i a t o keep t h e i n f o rma t i on from t he pub l i c .

A l l r i gh t , p l e a s e l e t me rep e at one t h i n g : I am n ot at wa r w i t h any g o ve rnment a gen cy . I b e l i e ve as l o n g a s t h i s re d , wh i t e , an d b l ue fl a g i s f l y i n g over our h e ads , i t rep re ­s en t s by f a r t h e f in e s t , the b e s t c o un t ry on the face o f G o d ' s g re en Earth . I b e l i eve i t . I b e l i eve i t w i t h a l l my he a rt . ( Ap p l au s e. )

Now , I am n o t mak i n g t h e s e s t a t em ent s b e c aus e I am runn i n g fo r a p o l i t i c a l o f f i c e , but i t i s b e c aus e I b e l i eve t h e m ; and t h e me re fac t t h a t we now h ave men and women f i gh t i n g f o r what t h a t f l a g s t an d s for c au s e s m e t o p robe de ep e r a n d d e ep e r i n t o th i s unu s u a l my s t e ry b e c au s e t h e s l i ght chance e x i s t s t h at s ome one out t he re cou l d b e i n a p o s i t i o n t o h e l p u s o u t o f o u r d i l emma . "Aw , " you s ay , ' ' come on , now . "

L a d i e s and g en t l emen , t h e b o o k F ly ing S auce rama h a s b e en p i c k e d up by f o r e i gn gov e rnment s and p e op l e th roughout t h e e n t i re wo r l d - - s tuden t s i n h i gh s ch o o l s , gramma r s ch o o l s ; and s ome c o l l e g e an d un i ve r s i ty s t uden t s are wr i t in g a t h e s i s o n t h e c on t ent s o f t h i s b o o k o T h e r e mu s t b e a r e a s on for i t . The G a l l up Po l l j u s t l a s t ye ar s t a t e d t h a t t h e re are mo re p e op l e wh o h ave ab s o l u t e l y gone on p ub l i c r e c o r d as s e e i n g UFO s t h an eve r b e fo r e in h i s t o ry o

Oh , but t h i s my s t e ry a t t r a c t s p e op l e o f a l l wa l k s o f l i fe , an d i t h a s a s t range r e a c t i o n on var i ou s c l a s s e s o f p e op l e . F o r i n s t an c e , n o t s o l on g a go my w i fe B e rn i e c e and I we re i nv i t e d t o De s Mo i n e s , I owa , t o s p e ak at a UFO b anqu e t fo l ­l owe d by t h e c onvent i on . A f t e r t h e b anque t wa s ov e r , we wa l ke d out i n t o t h e l ob b y , and I wa l ke d i n t o the c o ffee s hop , my w i f e rema i n e d i n t h e l obby sp e a k i n g w i t h s ome fr i e n d s . I s a t down a t t h e c oun t e r , and t h e wa i t re s s , c l e a r on t h e o th e r s i d e o f t h e bu i l d in g , t o o k o n e l o o k a t m e and s h e j us t h a d a f i t . I thou ght , "My G o d , wh a t d i d I do t o h e r ? " She c ame w a l t z i n g ove r and s a i d , "Are you that f l y i n g - s auc e r guy ? ' ' I s a i d , 1 1Y e s . 1 1 S h e s a i d , " Do you h ave any l i t t l e g r e en men i n s i de ? " I s a i d , " No ; not o n e s howe d up . " An d she j u s t l au gh e d and h a d a b a l l , and a l l t h e cus t ome r s had a b a l l , t o o , I gu e s s � I f e l t ab out s o b i g ( i nd i c at i n g w i t h f in ge r s ) . So , a f t e r Wa l t z i n g Ma t i l d a wen t b e h i n d t h e coun t e r , s h e s e t t h e g l a s s o f wa t e r down i n f r o n t o f m e , a n d a l l I s a i d wa s t h i s : 1 1 T h e r e a r e two o f u s . " ( L augh t e r ) H e r sm i l e van i s h e d , he r eye s g o t s o b i g , he r b o t t om l ip b e gan t o qu ive r and t remb l e , h e r h a n d b e gan t o t remb l e . S h e s l ow l y and de l i b e ra t e l y l e an e d o v e r t h e c o un t e r t o exam in e t h e emp ty s e a t n e x t t o me . Then I

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s a i d , " F o r P ete ' s s ak e ! My w i fe w i l l b e in i n a few m i nute s . " And s h e s a i d , " Oh , my h e a rt ! " You know , th e man a g e r had to s end h e r h ome . Th i s i s one re acti o n .

Anoth e r re act i on : It wa s a sma l l rep o rt that we r e c e ived one d ay at o u r h e adquarte r s of th e Nat i o n a l I nve s t i g ati ons Comm itt e e on UFOs in C a l i fo rn i a about a g re at b i g , roun d o b j e ct that c ame down l ate one a fternoon in a sma l l p l ac e c a l l e d We st P o i nt , Mi s s i s s ipp i ; and wh at h app ene d , a b i g , round b a l l c ame down . T h e p e op l e ran i nto th e i r hom e s and th e n they q u i c k l y c ame out of th e i r h om e s , s ome with r i fl e s , one fe l l ow h a d two hand g r enad e s , an oth e r one h a d a p i s to l , anoth e r one h a d an automat i c . Oth e r s had sti c ks and s ton e s and r a k e s and s h ove l s and axe h an d l e s an d eve ryth ing th ey th ou ght wou l d ma k e a dent on th i s n o cturn a l i ntrude r . Th ey had a q u i c k e l e ct i o n . You kn ow , th ey have th o s e h e re once i n a wh i l e . An d th ey e l e cte d a f e l l ow w i th the doub l e - b arre l s hotgun to b e th e i r l e ade r . He went on , an d th ey s a i d , "We a r e r i ght b e h i n d you . " Of cour s e , th ey d i dn ' t s ay h ow f a r b e h ind , b ut they we re b a c k the re s omep l a c e � And the re th ey we re . They s urroun d e d th i s o b j e ct , and the l e ade r s a i d : " Come out . We have got you c ov e re d . " Noth i n g h app ene d . S om e o n e n oti c e d wr iti n g on th e o b j e ct and h o l l e re d to the man with th e s h otgun , ' 'W i p e o f f th e du st from the w r i ti n g s o you c an r e a d it . , . H e s a i d , ' 'You c ome and w ip e i t o ff ; I h ave go t th e gun . " Th e rep o rt d o e s n ' t s ay who w ip e d o f f the d u s t f rom th e wr itin g , b ut s omeb o dy d i d ; a n d the fe l l ow with th e doub l e - b a rre l e d s h otgun wa l k e d up to th e ob j e ct r e a l b rave , and h e r e ad the wo rds o n the ob j e ct : "We ath e r B a l l o on . P r op e rty o f G e n e r a l M i l l s , M i n n e ap o l i s , M i nn e s ota . " He put th e gun i n two , remove d the s he l l s , and s a i d : " G o o dn i ght , fo l k s . "

Anoth e r r e a cti on , but h e re l e t me c ite you a d i f f e rent typ e of r e a ct i o n a s you w i l l s e e on th e s c r e e n in j u st a f ew moments : I n a p l a c e c a l l e d G i ant Rock , C a l i fo rn i a - - boy , i f you th i n k w e have got d i l l i e s at th i s c onvent i on , you s h ou l d c ome out the re . We l l , I d i dn ' t m e an anyb o dy h e re to day . But s ome fo l k s a r e r e a l l y unu s u a l , but it tak e s a l l k in d s . I s n ' t that r i ght? It tak e s a l l k inds to make the wo r l d go roun d . Now , i n Ca l i fo rn i a , e sp e c i a l l y at G i an t R o c k , i f s omeone s a i d , " Th e r e it i s , " everyb o dy and h i s d o g w i l l run toward th e are a whe re s om e b o dy i s ho l l e r i n g , "Th e r e it i s , " and th i s h app e ne d . I t h app e n e d . I was th e r e o n th e 4 th o f Ju l y , 1 9 6 0 . They i ntro du c e d m e a s one o f th e s p e ake r s , and th e mo de r ato r went to l e av e the p l atfo rm , and be fore I c ou l d open my mouth , s ome ­b o dy o uts i d e th e aud ito r i um s a i d , "Th e re go e s one n ow , " an d I wa s l o o k i n g at my s e l f . Eve ryb o dy j ust van i s h e d . S ome made th e i r own e x its . The re at tre e - top l eve l wa s a l ar g e s auc e r ­s h ap e d ve h i c l e . We a l l s aw it . It turne d s l i ghtly an d it s h o n e l i k e a d i amon d . Some of the l a d i e s ( b l e s s th e i r h e a rts ) , j us t p a s s e d out c o l d . They d i d . L ad i e s and gent l emen , ove r 5 0 0 p e op l e and on l y G o d knows how many c amer a s , and n ot one p e r s o n to o k a p i ctu r e . I t broke my h e a rt . I d i dn ' t take one ,

2 0

e ith e r . The fo l l ow i n g day , th i s i n c i dent rate d at l e ast e i ght l i ne s o f copy i n the S a n D i ego News . Anothe r re acti on .

Now , l et m e wrap th i s up s o we c an s e e th i s f i lm . The f i lm you are ab out to s e e , Phenomena 7 . 7 is not a s up e r - dup e r s c i en c e - f i ct i on th r i l l e r . A s a matter o f fact , I b roke my foot mak i n g th i s t h i n g . And I w i l l re a l ly p repare you s o the s ho c k i sn ' t t o o much fo r you ; I wi l l prep are you fo r what you are ab out to s e e on the s c re en . You a r e go i n g t o hear c omments by p e op l e you wi l l th i n k a re out o f th e i r m inds , but I wi l l a s k y o u t o l et them f i n i s h , t o wa i t unt i l y o u s e e b oth r ee l s b e fore you f o rm a c on c l u s ive op i n i on . You a r e go i n g to hear in th e f i r s t re e l unu s u a l s tateme nts . You are go i n g to meet s ome won d e r fu l p e op l e . They are a l l my f r i e n d s . On e maj o r te l e ­v i s i o n ne t wo r k wanted t o buy th i s f i lm , b ut th ey wante d to c ut it up and make the i r own c omme nta ry to make s ome o f the s e p e op l e l o o k l i ke fo o l s . Th i s we c ou l d n ot p e rmit , you s e e .

Phenome n a 7 . 7 wi l l s h ow you , th e v i ewe r s , a l l s i d e s o f th i s c o n t rove r s i a l UFO sub j e ct . You may n o t fu l ly a gr e e w i th eve ryth i n g the s e p e op l e s ay , but , a g a i n , l e t me rem ind you th at as l on g a s we h ave got th i s typ e of f l ag h e re , they h ave a r i ght to s ay it . You who a g ree , s ay " aye . " ( Ch o ru s of aye s . )

You a r e g o i n g to h e a r a s c i e nt i s t i n the s e cond ree l by the n ame of Chan Thom a s h ave the c o l l o s s a l n e rve to s ay that the E i n s t e i n i an e qu a t i on E : Mc 2 i s i n c omp l ete . And th i s man i s s o , s h a l l we s ay , " o ff " th at the Un ite d S t a t e s G ove rnment h a s gone to Chan Thomas and a s ke d h im t o p rove why the E i n ­ste i n i an th e o ry o f r e l ati v i ty i s n ot c omp l e t e , and , you know , h e p r oved it ! He i s go i n g to te l l you s ometh in g about th e s u r f a c e o f var i ou s oth e r p l an e t s wh i ch the Jet P r opu l s i on L ab o rato ry i n P a s adena a r e b e g i n n i n g to f i n d out that th i s man i s sp e ak in g th e tru t h . Now , p l e as e r ememb e r , th e p e op l e that we c a l l " ko o k s " t o day m i gh t b e tom o r row ' s g e n i us e s .

On e i l l u strat i o n : The re we re two nuts , and t h e s e guy s w e r e s o far out , " Boy , you f e l l ows a r e o ut o f your c otton ­p i c k i n g m i n d s . " T h e s e two fe l l ows announ c e d to t he \vo r l d o n e d ay : "Wo r l d , tomorrow we a r e go i n g to f l y . " An d th e s e two b roth e r s we re h e l d i n h i gh r i d i cu l e . T h e c l e r gymen got up an d wrote to th e n ew s p ap e r s and made p ub l i c announ c ements f rom the i r p u l p its . Th ey s a i d , " I f G o d wante d men to f l y , He wou l d h ave g iv e n th em w i n gs � " And th e s e s ame m in i s t e r s are runn i n g a round th e c ountry to d ay on a i rp l an e s with c l e r gy ­d i s c ount c a rd s . ( App l au s e . ) And h e re they we re on the h i l l ­s i de , O rv i l l e and W i l bur Wr i ght , wi th a b i g ove r g rown k ite w i t h a coup l e o f wh e e l s , w i n g s and a p rop e l l e r . And they s a i d , " P e op l e , back up , p l e a s e ; we a r e go i n g to f ly . " An d th e oth e r fo l ks sto o d on th e h i l l s i de . " H e c k , i t ' s n ot go i n g t o wo rk ; i t w i l l n e v e r l e ave th e groun d . I t won ' t ; it won ' t . " " We l l , it won ' t stay up . " But it d i d s tay up . And du r i n g t h e p a s t 6 0 y e a r s m an h a s s o p ro g re s s e d a n d a dvan c e d th at to day we

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have t remendou s r e c o rds t h a t h ave b e en s e t by fas t j e t p l an e s .

Oh , y e s , I know you d i d have t o rem i n d me o f t h a t , t h a t UFO s h ave b e en t ra c k e d by t h e m i l i t a ry a t sp e e d s e x c e e d ing 2 0 , 0 0 0 m i l e s per hour , e x e cu t i n g imp o s s i b l e r i gh t - an g l e turn s w i t h out s l ow i n g down , v i o l a t i n g every e s t ab l i s h e d l aw o f a e r o ­dyn am i c s . Ye s , I know t h a t , b u t we h aven ' t qu i t e c augh t up w i t h t h e s e p e op l e y e t . That ' s why , t o m e , i t i s a foo l who wou l d ever s i gn i n t o l aw a s t a t ement that t e l l s our m i l i t a ry t h a t t h e y s h ou l d f i r e up on UFOs . You s e e , t h i s i s i d i o t i c , b u t we wi l l c ov e r s ome o f t ha t i n t h e f i lm �

L a d i e s and gen t l emen , we are go i n g t o s how Ree l 1 o f t h e f i lm , we a r e g o i n g t o h ave a b r i e f i n t e rm i s s i on , a n d t hen we are g o i n g to s e e t h e s e c o n d re e l o f Ph enomena 7 . 7 . Aft e r t h e f i r s t r e e l , I wi l l b e g l ad t o aut o graph c op i e s o f t h e b o o k f o r y o u , a n d w e wi l l have a chance t o t a l k ab out " The S t ran ge r a t t h e P e n t a g o n " t h a t we t a l k e d ab out o n t h e A l l en Burke s h ow , p e rhap s j u s t b e fo re Re e l 2 b e g i n s . Th ank you v e ry much . ( App l au s e o )

(At t h i s p o i n t Re e l 1 o f t h e f i lm " Phenome n a 7 . 7 " was s hown , but I wa s n o t p e rm i t t e d to t ran s c r i b e it here on a c c oun t of the copyr i gh t . )

MR . MO S E LEY : L a d i e s and g e n t l emen , I want t o t e l l you that the s t ar of t h i s wh o l e e n t e r t a i nmen t has a r r i v e d , an d imm e d i a t e ly a f t e r th e i n t e rm i s s i on , you wi l l h ave t h e opp o r ­tun i ty o f h e a r i n g , i n a dd i t i on t o t h e p e op l e whom I h ave n am e d b e fo re , Roy Th i nn e s , wh o h a s c ome a l l t h e way from Ho l l ywo o d . We w i l l now t ak e a 1 5 - to 2 0 - m i nu t e i n t e rm i s s i on .

( I NT E RM I S S I ON )

MR . MO S E L EY : W e a r e ab o u t t o s t a rt ag a i n , l ad i e s an d g en t l emen . Do I s e e Dr . S t ran g e s aroun d ? I have t o exp l a i n a c oup l e o f t h i n g s t o y o u ab out our p ro g ram b e fo re I b e g in . We a r e runn i n g p r e t ty l a t e h e re , a s you c an t e l l p e rh ap s , and we h ave had to c an c e l the s e c on d re e l of t he f i lm .

F ROM THE F LOOR : Ah ' s and n o ' s . "J im , p l e a s e ! "

MR . MO S E L EY : I t h i n k y o u a re go i n g t o h e a l o t h app i e r w i t h wha t w e h ave i n s t e ad . I f we had t h e s e c on d re e l , we wou l d h ave t o k e ep y ou h e re un t i l ab o u t 6 : 0 0 o ' c l o c k , o r e l s e t ry t o g i v e t h e s p e ak e r s ab o u t 5 m i nu t e s o f t ime . (Murmurs f rom au d i e n c e . ) I s e e we a r e go i n g t o h ave t roub l e e xp l a in in g th i s o n e , s o I t h i n k I w i l l l e t Dr . S t ran g e s e xp l a i n i t h im ­s e l f . H e h a s j us t a c oup l e o f m i nut e s o f t ime a f t e r wh i ch we w i l l h ave our s t a r of the a f t e rn oo n . Dr . F ran k S t ran g e s .

DR . STRANG E S : L ad i e s and g en t l emen , I wi l l mak e th i s

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o n e ann oun ceme n t , t h a t wi t h i n 6 0 day s the ent i re Phenomena 7 . 7 f i l m i s g o i ng i n t o t h e t h e a t e r s an d t h e d r i ve - i n s , s o you won ' t m i s s i t , I am sure .

Now , g ive me j u s t 1� m i nut e s more t o s ay th i s : We c e r t a i n ly e n j oy e d m e e t i n g you , and o n e l i t t l e b oy wh o s e b o o k I aut o grap h e d i n t h e b ac k s a i d , "You kn ow , two y e a r s a g o you s e nt me y o u r p i c t ure , and I put it whe re eve ryb o dy who c ome s t o ou r h ou s e can s e e i t . " I s a i d , "Wh e re d i d you p u t i t ? " He s a i d , " I n t h e b a t hr o om . " ( L aught e r . ) We l l , t h e r e a re many way s o f g e t t i n g p op u l ar .

S om e o n e a s k e d me : "Wh a t are t h e re l i g i o u s c on f i gur a t i on s i n UFO my s t e r i e s ? ' ' I s a i ah , Je rem i ah , S a c r e d S c r i p ture s , t h e re are m any , many i n s t an c e s in Ho l y Wr i t t h a t p o i n t t o e x t r a ­t e rre s t r i a l b e i n g s a s we l l a s UFOs . An d even J e s u s Chr i s t o n c e s a i d , " I n my F a t h e r ' s hous e a re many m an s i on s . " An d in t h e o r i g i n a l G re e k you find t h a t "man s i on " m e an s " dwe l l in g p l a c e . 1 1

Hang o n t o y o u r s e a t b e l t s , b e c au s e we h ave g o t a t e rr i f i c s p e a k e r c om i n g up . Thank you v e ry much .

MR . MO S E L EY : I wou l d l i ke t o g iv e y o u a run down o n c e a ga i n o f wh a t we a r e hav i n g t h i s even in g , j u s t s o t h a t you wi l l know , b e c au s e the p ro g ram s t h a t we h ave are not t o o a c cu r a t e . The s i t u a t i on h e re c h an g e s e v e ry m inut e .

Thi s e ve n i ng we a r e h av i n g G ray B arke r , an d we a re h av i n g Pa r i s F l ammond e . I am s u r e you don ' t h ave t o h ave m e e xp l a i n who G r ay B a rk e r i s o H e i s o n e o f t h e m o s t f amous b o o k pub ­l i s he rs and wr i t e r s in t h e UFO f i e l d , and h e has b e e n wr i t i n g f o r UFO m a ga z i n e s f o r s ome 1 5 y e a r s . P a r i s F l ammond e i s the fo rme r p r o du c e r of L o n g J o hn Neb e l ' s p ro g r am . We have R i ch a rd B a s i l e , wh o i s a v e ry we l l i n f o rm e d UFO re s e arche r , a p h i l o s o ­p h e r , an d a won d e r fu l s p e ak e r , wh o w i l l b e o n t h e even i n g p ro g r am t on i gh t . W e have B o b B a r ry , who i s c om i n g a l l t h e way up f rom Ph i l a d e l p h i a w i t h a v e ry f a s c i n a t i n g s l i d e l e c ture . An d we have t h e Ama z i n g Ran d i who i s j us t b a c k f rom P e ru l a s t we e k w i t h s om e won d e r fu l s l i de s s howin g , amon g o t h e r t h in g s , s om e l in e s on the Pe ruv i an de s e rt t h a t m ay h ave b e e n made by or for p e op l e from o th e r p l an e t s .

I t i s now my wond e r fu l opp o r tun i ty an d my g r e a t h o n o r t o g iv e t o y o u t h e s t ar o f t h i s p a r t i cu l a r UFO C on g re s s , t he man who ha s c om e a l l t he way f rom H o l l ywo o d , Ca l i f o rn i a , s o h e c an s p e ak t o y o u p e op l e and g iv e y o u h i s v i ew s , h i s i de a s o f s i g h t ­i ng s , h i s i n s i gh t i n t o t h e UFO p h e n om en a , Mr . Roy Th inn e s , s t ar o f " Th e Invade rs . " Mr . Roy Th inn e s , l ad i e s a n d g e n t l emen . ( App l aus e . )

MR . ROY TH I NNE S : Thank y o u , t h an k y o u , t h ank you v e ry

--

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wou l d h ave g o ne t hrou gh my h e a r t . ( App l au s e and l au gh t e r . )

Whe n I b e gan do i n g t h e s h ow , I h a d a g e nu i ne ang e r ab o u t t h e a l i e n o r t h e v i s i t o r . L e t ' s r e f e r t o h im a s a v i s i t o r . I d o n ' t l i k e t h a t wo r d " a l i e n ' ' s o much . I thought t h e s e we re b e i n g s of s up e r i o r i n t e l l e c t , o f h i gh e r i n t e l l i g e n c e , and t h a t h e wou l dn ' t c ommun i c at e w i t h u s ; and I , b e i n g a human w i t h my l a r g e e go , as we a l l h ave , c ou l dn ' t unde r s t an d why t h e v i s i t o rs w e r e r e j e c t i n g u s and n o t t e l l i n g u s a l l how we coul d imp rove ours e l ve s , b e c au s e we d o ge t a l i t t l e b i t c a re l e s s a n d h ave done s o t h roughout h i s t o ry . So I h a d t h i s g enu i ne ang e r t oward t h e a l i en s . I s a i d , "Why don ' t t h ey t e l l u s why t h ey a r e c o m in g ? Th i s i s a ho s t i l e a c t i on , i s i t n o t , t o rema i n s i l en t , f r i gh t en i n g s ome p e op l e , and t o l e ave o t h e r p eop l e b a f f l e d a s t o wh a t l i e s b e h in d t h e UFO s t o ry ? "

·

L a t e r o n I b e g an t o e x am i ne t h e v i s i to rs ' p 6 i n t o f v i ew . I gue s s t h i s i s wh a t I r e a l l y wan t e d t o s ay , s imp l y : We re I t o o b s e rve f r om a d i s t an c e , o r i ncon s p i cuou s l y r i ght i n t h i s r o om , m an k i n d o n E a r t h , wh a t wou l d I b e l o o k i n g a t ? H e p o l ut e s t h e wa t e r h e d r i n k s , t h e a i r h e b re a t he s , t h e f o o d h e e at s . O c c a s i on a l ly h e h a s a g ra n d , c o l o r fu l p ag e a n t c a l l e d "wa r " wh e r e i n h e k i l l s h i s b r o t h e r , h i s young , i nn o c e n t bys t an d e r s , a n d t r i e s t o h e a l h i s wounds a g a i n i n p rep arat i on f o r the n e x t p a g e an t .

I t h i n k t h e d i s b e l i e f i n t h e wo r l d about UFOs o r wha t ­h ave - y ou c ou l d b e p en e t r a t e d i f we k n o c k our e go e s down a l i t t l e b i t and n o t th i n k we a r e s o grand , t h a t we a r e t h e o n l y f o rm o f i nt e l l i gen t l i fe i n t h e un i v e r s e . I t i s a r a t h e r p e t ty e go who t h i nk s t ho s e t h ough t s .

L e t ' s r e s p e c t one ano t he r f o r ou r d i f f e re n c e s and l ive t o g e t h e r w i t h ou t t ha t m e s s y p a g e an t - - w a r . Then p e rh ap s I c an i de n t i fy my s e l f w i t h t h e v i s i t o r o r t h e o b s e rv e r from a d i s t an c e . I wou l d wan t t o make c on t a c t , b u t I don ' t t rus t u s r i gh t n ow .

I was wat ch i n g t h e J o hn ny C ar s o n Sh ow one n i gh t , an d t h a t n i g h t t h e r e h a d b e en an art i c l e from a n ews p ap e r ab o u t a man i n M i ch i g an wh o h a d b e en l au gh e d at f o r rep o r t i n g h i s s i gh t i n g o f a UFO and c r i t i c i z e d - - " Swamp g a s , " t he s ame o l d s t o ry . And t h e man s a i d , " Ra th e r t h an rep o rt a UFO s i g h t i n g t h e n e x t t ime , I s h a l l s h o o t a t i t . " Th en Johnny C a r s o n w i s e ly awa rde d h i m t h e S t up i d i ty - o f - t h e - We e k Awa r d . ( App l aus e . )

Many c ount r i e s i n t h e UN a r e t ry i n g t o s o lve t h e p rob l em we have h e re . And t h i s guy , y o u know , i n M i c h i g an want s t o s t a rt an i n t e rp l an e t a ry wa r . And t o quo t e Jo hnny , h e s a i d : " G e t t h em out s i d e t h e s p a c e s h ip , t h en s ay , ' Al l r i gh t , re l e a s e t h e i n s e c t i c i de ; t hey h ave b i t t en . ' ' ' I t ' s n o t s o funny . S o i f w e c h an g e o u r f r ame o f m i n d he r e , w e c an p e n e t rat e t h e d i s -

2 6

b e l i e f t ha t we a r e h av i n g t o d e a l w i t h cons t an t l y i n n o t j us t t h e mat t e r o f UFOs , b u t p h i l o s op h i c a l l y a l l ove r t h e wo r l d .

Re s p e c t one an o t he r . D on ' t t ry t o c h an g e e ac h o t h e r , b e c au s e you are b e au t i fu l t h e way you are . Th e m e s s a g e i s p e ac e . Thank y o u . (App l au s e . )

MR . MOS E LEY : L ad i e s and g e n t l em e n , our next s p e ak e r i s Ame r i c a ' s f o remo s t exp e r t o n p sy ch i c p he nomen a . You may won d e r why we are t al k i n g ab o u t th a t t o a f l y in g - s au c e r c o n ­ven t i on . O f c ou r s e , t h e r e i s p ro b ab l y s om e c onne c t i on b e twe e n UFO s and p sych i c_ p he nomen a . Whe t h e r t h e re i s o r i s n o t , t h e f a c t rem a i n s t h a t mo s t p e op l e who are i nt e re s t e d i n f l y i n g s au c e r s h ave s om e i n t e re s t in o r b e l i e f i n t h e p s y ch i c and t h e o c cu l t . S o t h i s g e n t l eman who h a s wr i t t en s ev e r a l b o o k s . o n t h e s ub j e c t i s v e ry muc h t h e typ e o f p e r s on t h at we wan t t o s p e ak t o us h e r e .

He h a s w r i t t en a numb e r o f b o o k s � He i s t h e f o remo s t e xp e r t o n No s t r ad amus i n t h i s c o un t ry . One o f t h e b oo k s h e h a s wr i t t en i s c a l l e d " P rop h e s i e s on Wo r l d Event s , " and t h i s b o o k i s o n s a l e h e r e i n t h e l obby and may b e ob t a i n e d a f t e r t h i s s e s s i on . Mr . S t ewar t Robb i s one who h a s b e e n o n Long J ohn ' s s how . He is an e x c e l l e n t mus i c i an , c omp o s e r of mus i c , a v e ry a l l - aroun d , i nt e l l i g ent p e rs on wh om I h av e known a numb e r o f y e a r s and adm i re d g re a t ly . W i t h ou t furt h e r ado , I g iv e y ou o u r n e x t sp e ake r , Mr . S t ewart Robb . ( App l au s e . )

MR . STEWART ROB B : L ad i e s and g e n t l emen , t h e t op i c t h i s a f t e rn o o n i s " Prop h e cy . " Now , t h e r e a s o n why p rop h e cy i s t h e p aramou n t f i e l d o f i n t e re s t , I t h i n k , o f t h e maj o r i ty h e r e o th e r t han t he o t h e r asp e c t s o f t he p s y ch i c , fo r p roph e cy i s t h e p sy ch i c , t o o , b e c au s e i t de a l s w i t h e x t r a s e n s o ry p e rcep ­t i on , b e c au s e i t de a l s w i th wo r l d even t s and s ome e x t rao rdin a ry t h in g s t h a t h ave b e en h app e n i n g i n t h e wo r l d , and p rop he cy h a s b e en fu l f i l l e d qu i t e r e c en t ly . S o , i n t h e S O m inut e s o r s o t h a t I a m a l l o t t e d h e re , s i n c e t h e re i s n o que s t i on p e r i o d ( t he re wou l dn ' t b e t im e f o r t h a t ) , I am go i n g t o t ry t o a n t i c ip a t e your que s t i on s and t o an swe r t h em b y me ans o f s ome c o mm en t s on No s t radamu s and o t h e r s e e rs .

I s t ar t o b l i q u e ly by m en t i o n i n g a phone c a l l I r e c e i v e d a t t h e e n d o f 1 9 6 2 b y a g en t l eman known t o m any o f y o u b y n am e , a t l e a s t , and s om e o f h i s wr i t i n g s are known t o m any of y o u , Je s s e S t e arn . J e s s e S t e a rn wro t e a b o o k c a l l e d " Th e D oo r t o t h e Future , " a b o o k on p roph e cy . B e f o re h e wro t e i t , h e a s k e d m e f o r c e r t a i n i n f o rmat i o n on t h e p rophe c i e s o f No s t radamu s , b e c au s e , h e t o l d me , h e·. i n t en d e d t o d o a n e n t i re c h ap t e r o n No s t radamus and

.h e wan t e d t o make s u r e t h e i nt e r ­

p r e t at i on s w e r e c o r re c t and t h e t ran s l at i o n v a l i d . S o h e i n t e rv i ewe d me . Wh e n I g o t t h e phone c a l l , I w a s s imp l y t o c om e ove r t o h i s ap a r tm e n t an d s e e t h e g a l l ey s wh i ch h e had

; ' f

'. �: J � • ··: • . .; .L

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j us t re c e i v e d , a s h e wan t e d t o make s u r e t h e g a l l ey s we re r i gh t . S o I wen t over t h e re and went ove r t h e chap t e r and read the o th e r p o rt i on of the b o o k , wh i ch was f a s c i nat i n g t o me . He h a d i n i t qu i t e a s e c t i on o n J e ane D ix on . H e h a d t h e a s s a s s i n a t i on o f Kennedy . That w a s i n t h i s b o o k . M i n d y o u , t h e p r e d i c t i on o f t h e a s s a s s i n a t i on o f Kenn e dy p re da t e s t h e b o o k , t o o . The b o o k i t s e l f p re da t e d t h e a s s as ­s i n a t i on b y s eve ra l mon t h s .

Tha t even i n g I wa s t a l k i n g o n t h e phone t o the Ama z in g R an d i , wh om m any o f y o u know a n d w h o i s a UFO l o g i s t a s we l l a s a s up e rb e s c ap e a rt i s t . We g o t t o t a l k in g ab out p rop h e cy , s o I s t ar t e d c i t in g c e r t a in i ns t an c e s o f J e an e D ix o n ' s h i t s , and h e s a i d , "Wh a t ab o u t h e r m i s s e s ? " I s a i d , " Sure , s he h a s m i s s e d , t o o , b u t t h e h i t s are qu i t e remarkab l e . " I m e n ­t i on e d i n t u rn t h e · p r e d i c t i on wh i ch was qu i t e f amous ( t h i s was b e f o r e t h e a s s a s s i n at i on o f Kenne dy ) , t he d e a t h o f Hammar s k j o l d i n a p l an e c r a s h . She h a d p re d i c t e d t ha t . I n f a c t , t h a t w a s s o we l l known b e fo r e t h e e ven t t h a t p e op l e we re a f ra i d to b o a rd any p l an e he wou l d be on . She h a d p re d i c t e d Spu t n i k . She h a d d e s c r ib e d i t i n de t a i l on t e l ev i s i on t o a l a r g e aud i en c e o f w i t ne s s e s t h e re .

Rand i s a i d t o me : " Th i s i s a l l v e ry ,.,e 1 1 . I -haven ' t t ime t o c h e c k on t h a t p re d i c t i on t o s e e i f s h e made the s t at e ­m en t s e x a c t l y a s t h ey f e l l o f f f i n a l ly . Bu t , " h e s a i d , " h a s s h e s a i d any t h i n g ab ou t a p re d i ct i on t h a t h a s n o t y e t c ome t ru e but c an ; t h a t i s , i s th e re s ome t h i n g I c an che c k on l at e r an d I wou l d b e a w i t ne s s t o i t s e x i s t en c e b e fo r e t h e e v e n t ? " I s a i d , "Ye s . Sh e h a s p r e d i c t e d the a s s a s s i n a t i on o f Kennedy . I t i s an unf o r t un a t e nat i on a l t h i ng , and I hop e i t do e s n o t c om e t o p a s s , b u t s h e h a s p r e d i ct e d t h a t v e ry s p e c i f i c a l l y . You wou l d b e l i k e l y ab l e t o s e e t h a t . " And h e s a i d , " I f t h a t c om e s t ru e , I w i l l b e v e ry i n t e re s t e d i n d i s cu s s i n g p rop h e cy w i th y o u a t g r e a t l en g t h . "

Mont h s p a s s e d . J e an e D ix on wa s on Lon g J ohn ' s s how . I w a s o n t h e s am e s how . Th i s i s whe n i t was on WO R . And a l s o J e s s e S t e a rn w a s o n D Je s s e S t e a rn drew J ohn a s i de a t one p o in t an d a s k e d if it wou l d b e a l l r i ght f o r h e r to men t i on t h e p r e d i c t i on o n t h e a s s as s i n a t i on o f Ken n e dy , and s he t o l d i t a t t ha t t ime . M o n t h s p as s e d . Eve ryb o dy knew ab ou t t h i s p re d i c t i on , eve ryb o dy a t L o n g J ohn ' s s tu d i o and c e r t a i n ly Rand i d i d .

The n c am e t h e f a t a l a s s a s s in a t i on . A day o r two a f t e r i t - - I t h ink i t w a s t h e d ay a ft e r - - o n L on g J o hn ' s s how t h a t n i gh t on WOR Ran d i wa s o n , Ka i gh De i gh and a c oup l e o f o t h e r s , an d t h ey we re d i s cu s s i n g t h e fu l f i l lm e n t o f Je ane D ix on ' s p r e d i c t i on . John s a i d f i r s t t h at i t had s h aken h im , and Ran d i a gr e e d and s a i d , " I t s h o o k me , t o o . " Lat e r on , h oweve r , h e b e c om e s uns h ak e n , b u t a t t h a t t ime h e was s haken .

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John was a s k ed t h i s que s t i on : "Wh a t do you t h ink o f J e ane D i x o n n ow ? " J o hn s a i d , " I f you had a s k e d me s i x m on t h s ago , I wou l d h ave h a d a v e ry d i f fe re n t an swe r t o you t h an n ow . " Aft e r t h a t t h e re w a s a g r e a t r e s p e c t at t h e s t ud i o s f o r J e an e D i x o n . Ka i gh De i gh , o n t h e s ame p r o g ram , a s k e d John p o i n t b l an k : " Supp o s e , John , t h a t you h ad a ve ry , very imp o r t an t b u s i ne s s e n g a g em e n t fo r F r i d ay even i n g and you h a d t o t ake a p l an e t o g e t t o i t and s upp o s e s h e h a d s a i d t o t ake i t o n �1on d ay i n s t e a d o f F r i day , wou l d you g o F r i d ay o r wou l d you de c i de to go on Mon d ay i n s t e ad ? " J o hn s a i d , " I wou l dn ' t e ve n t ak e i t o n Mo nday fo r f e a r s h e m i gh t h ave go t t en h e r d a t e s m ix e d . "

S ome p e op l e h ave s a i d t o m e t h a t s h e i s t h e "mo d e rn N o s t r a d amus , , . and my an swe r h a s b e en : "No , t h e r e i s o n l y o n e No s t r a d amus . " The r e i s o n l y o n e B a c h , o n e B e e thoven , o n e N o s t r a d amus � J e an e D ix o n i s v e ry , v e ry g o o d � S ome t ime s I t h i n k , h oweve r , t ha t p o l i t i c a l f e e l i n g s g e t invo l v e d i n h e r g iv i n g fo r t h o f a p r e d i c t i on , an d i t may b e c ome a l i t t l e b i t g a l l ey - we s t a s a r e s u l t .

Now , f r om Je ane D i xo n b a c k t o N o s t radamus 4 0 0 y e a r s e a r l i e r : I c ann o t g o i n t o h i s t o ry ; t h e re i s n o t ime f o r s u c h t h i n g s . I c an j u s t men t i on t h e da t e s , t h e f a c t t h at No s t ra ­d amus w a s a F re n c hm an an d t ha t h e wro t e i n F re n c h qua t ra i n - ­four l in e s . H i s d a t e s : 1 5 0 3 t o 1 5 6 6 . He i s t h e m o s t e x t r a o r d i n a ry p roph e t o u t s i de t h e B i b l e t ha t eve r l iv e d and , i n a way , even mo re e x t rao r d i n a ry b e c au s e h e c an b e wonde r ­fu l ly p re c i s e a n d c i r cums t an t i a l . F o r i n s t an c e , h e re i s a fu l f i l l e d p r oph e cy o f h i s , and i t a l s o h i t on t he n o s e : " Th e y e ar 1 7 2 7 , i n Oc t ob e r , t h e K i ng o f Pe rs i a w i l l b e t aken by t ho s e of Egyp t . " Th i s h app en e d i n t h e y e a r 1 7 2 7 a c c o r d i n g t o t h e p r e d i c t i on . I t h app en e d i n t h e y e ar h e n ame d , i n t h e m on t h h e name d . He n ame d t h e t wo n a t i on s Q He g ave t h e v i c t o r and h e n am e d t h e v anqu i s h e d . Th at p re d i c t i on was i n p r in t i n 1 5 5 5 , l on g b e f o r e t h e fu l f i l l m e n t .

I n an o t h e r one o f h i s p ro p he c i e s , No s t radamus p re d i c t s i n 1 7 9 2 i n t h e Fren ch Revo l u t i on t h e p e rs e cu t i on o f t h e c l e r gy , and t h e p e rs e cu t i on o f t h e c l e r gy was a t i t s h e i gh t i n 1 7 9 2 , S e p t emb e r o f t h e s am e y e a r t h a t No s t radamus s a i d � N o s t radamus a l s o s ay s t h at s ame y e a r t h ey w i l l t h i n k i t t o be a renova t i on . They c a l l e d i t t h e Y e a r 1 o f t h e Repub l i c , an d s o t h ey c e r t a i n ­ly t h ou g h t i t w a s renova t i on . And t h ey c a l l e d t h e c a l e n d a r t h e " Ch r i s t i an c a l endar . " N ow , No s t radamus g o t t h e nam e s r i gh t . He g o t t h e d a t e s r i gh t o He g av e t h e n am e s o f p eop l e n o t y e t b o rn . An d h e w a s e x t rao r d i nary i n t h a t re sp e c t . I t wou l d t ak e t o o l on g t o g o i n t o h i s fu l f i l l e d p roph e cy .

I wi l l s ay a l i t t l e b i t ab o u t t h e fut ure now . No s t radamu s d o e s n o t p r ed i c t war w i t h Ru s s i a , an d I have s a i d t h i s m any t im e s on r a d i o p ro gr am s f o r a p e r i o d o f about 2 0 y e a r s . My

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f i r s t l e c t u r e o n No s t r adamus was 1 9 4 2 . Be do e s p r e d i c t t roub l e , and t h a t t ro ub l e , a s I h ave ment i on e d ove r and ove r a g a i n o n many o f my l e c t u re s , was t h e Ne ar E a s t , and t h a t t he f in a l war o f t he wo r l d i s t o b e g in i n t h e N e a r E as t . I have s a i d t h i s a g a i n an d a g a i n , t o o . So I am n o t s ay in g anyt h i n g new t o y o u n ow . Bu t I have s ome t h i n g h e r e o n tape , ab out t wo m i nu t e s o f i t . I w i l l t ry t o ho l d t h e l oud s p e ak e r up h e r e , b e c au s e o t h e rw i s e i t won ' t c a r ry . Ab out t h r e e ye a r s ago t h e re w a s a p ro g ram a t a f r i end ' s h ome . I was t h e sp e ake r , and i t w a s t ap e d , an d t h i s i s typ i c a l o f wh at I s a i d a t t h a t t ime :

" Th a t ' s r i gh t . A war w i th Rus s i a wou l d b e a wo r l d war . No s t radamu s do e s have a go o d d e a l t o s ay ab out wars . Some o f t h em a r e s t i l l i n t h e fut ure . They s e em , h oweve r , t o b e m a i n l y i n t h e N e a r E a s t - - t h e M i dd l e E a s t , and t hey c o n c e rn an Arab c o nq u e ro r . The f i n a l v i c t o r o f t h e wo r l d w i l l be an Arab ant i chr i s t , a man of g re a t l e arn i n g , g r e a t c ru e l ty , g r e a t m i l i t ary g e n iu s , an d an Arab . The war w i l l s t art n e ar an d i n I s rae l - - t h a t i s , i t i s t h e Wa r o f Armage ddon - - a t M e g i ddo . Me g i ddo i s a p l a i n o f I s rae l . I t wi l l s t a rt w i t h t roub l e b e twe e n t h e

. Arab s and t h e Jews . That wi l l b e t h e

b e g i n n i n g . The e n t i re war w i l l b e fough t t h e r e e I t w i l l b e a w o r l d w a r i n s ome r� s p e c t s , a l t hough i t w i l l b e d i f fe rent f rom o t h e r wa r s . App a ren t l y even t h i s l and w i l l b e i nvade d . I don ' t t h i nk i t e v e r h a s . " And s o o n . ( App l au s e o )

Now , t he i n t e re s t i n g t h i n g i s t h i s abo u t the War o f Arm a g e ddo n . Th i s was a s hadowb o x i n g . S e ve r a l y e a r s have p a s s e d . Th e re wi l l be a p e r i o d of rath e r t roub l e d p e ac e , b u t Arma g e ddon i s , a s I s t at e d - - t h e wo r d i s "Me g i ddo " - - Me g i ddo i s o n t he P l an e of E s dr a e l on , and t h e f i rs t f i ght i n g of t h i s w a r s t ar t e d r i gh t t h e re . Th e r e a t E s d r ae l on t he f i rs t s ho t s we r e f i re d . S o t h i s i s l i t e ra l ly , you m i gh t s ay , t he s h adow ­b ox i n g fo r t h e t ru e Arm a g e dd o n wh i ch s t art s , a s I s t at e d b e fore , b e t we e n t h e Arab s and t h e Jews . But i t i s a wo r l d c o n f l i c t . The l i n e - up i s r a t h e r i n t e re s t i n g .

No s t radamus , fo r i n s t an c e , h a s a p r e d i ct i o n wh e re a G e rman l e ad e r w i l l d r ive out t h e Arab s f rom G e rmany and o t he r p a r t s o f Europ e . I f y o u w i l l n o t i ce , i n t h i s l a s t war t he We s t G e rmans we re v e ry much on t h e s i de o f I s r ae l , even vo l un t e e r in g b y t h e hund r e d s , a c c o r d i n g t o t h e N e w Y o rk T ime s , by m any hundre ds , t o f i gh t fo r I s r ae l . Now , t h e p re d i ct i on o f No s t radamu s a b o u t t h e G e rm a n s f i gh t in g b ac k t h e Arab s a l s o dove t a i l s w i t h th i s b i t o f a n ews i t em , wh i c h i s , n ev e r t he l e s s , qu i t e o b s cure f o r many o th e r t h i n g s on t h e h o r i z on , an Ang l o - S axon F e de ra t i o n , an An g l o - S axon un i on .

No s t radamus h a s a v e ry i n t e re s t i n g p re d i c t i on , one l i n e o f lvh i ch r e ad s , " Th e re w i l l b e a h e a d o f L on don f rom t h e G ove rnm e n t o f Ame r i c a , " wh i ch i s an i nt e re s t i ng l in e i n i t s e l f e v e n b e fo r e fu l f i l lme n t , b e c aus e when No s t radamus

3 0

wro t e , t h e re wa s n o gove rnm e n t o f Ame r i c a o H e wa s t h e f i r s t p e r s on t o n ame i n c o l d p r i n t t h e wo rds , "Re gn e l ' Me r i ch , " " th e gove rnment o f Am e r i c a , " t h e f i r s t p e r s on t o n ame i t anywh e r e . I t now d o e s ex i s t . A t t h a t t im e , Ame r i c a was a howl i ng w i l d e rne s s . Some p e op l e t h i nk i t s t i l l i s 8 I t c e r t a i n l y w a s t h e n . Th e f i r s t C o l on i s t s h a dn ' t b e e n s en t . The re was n o gove rnm e n t o f Ame r i c a , ye t , "The re wi l l b e a he a d o f L o n don from t h e gove rnmen t o f Ame r i c a � "

The re w i l l b e o t he r re g i on a l fe de rat i on s : Fran c e , I t a l y , Sp a i n an d Po r t u g a l wi l l .b e un i t e d un de r , I b e l i eve , a F rench m o n a r c h . F ranc e wi l l h ave one mo re k in g gove rn i n g i t . They s ay De G au l l e is a k i n g , but h e is not by roya l b i r t h . Th i s m an w i l l b e t h e f ift h Hen :ry . l i e w i l l b e Henry V . He i s on t he h o r i z on , not v e ry l on g o f f . Mo s t of you h e re w i l l he ar o f h im .

T h e y e a r o f t h e ant i ch r i s t h a s n ' t a r r i v e d y e t . I don ' t s ay h e i s n ' t b o rn ; b e i s p ro b ab ly wa l k in g t h e s t re e t s o f C a i ro o r s omep l ac e . . H e w i l l arr ive p r e t ty s oo n , n o t i n fu l l p owe r . He w i l l a r r i v e rat h e r s u d d e n ly , t h ough . No war w i t h Ru s s i a . A p e r i o d o f p e ac e . Arm a g e ddon . And a ft e r Arma g e ddon , a s No s t r ad amu s s a i d , t h e e r a o f p e a c e w i l l b e g i n , t h e M i l l e n ­n ium w i l l d awn , a th o u s an d ye a r s o f p e a c e . We h aven ' t h a d a t ho u s and m i nu t e s o f p e ac e y e t , s o a t ho u s and y e a r s o f p e ac e w i l l b e v e ry , very we l c ome .

T h an k y o u , l ad i e s and g en t l emen . ( App l au s e . )

I wou l d l i k e t o s ay one mo re t h i n g : I f any o f you p re s e n t b e l i ev e t h a t you may h av e a n y g i ft o f p roph e cy o r o f p re d i c t i n g , whe t h e r o n a s ma l l s c a l e o r a l a r g e s c a l e , an d c an docume n t any t h i n g o f t h a t n a t u re , p l e a s e c on t ac t a newly - fo rme d o r g an i z a t i on c a l l e d t h e P a r ap s y ch o l o gy Re s e a r c h So c i e t y , a t 1 5 5 We s t 4 6 t h S t re e t , fo rme d f o r t h e purpo s e o f j us t h e a r i n g and l e a rn i n g ab out t h e s e t h i n gs . I f y o u a r e i n t e re s t e d i n t h e p s y ch i c a t a l l o r h av e h a d any p sy c h i c e xp e r i en c e , w e wou l d l i k e t o h e a r ab o u t i t . Thank y o u . ( App l au s e . )

M R . MOS E L EY : B e fo re we h av e our next s p e ak e r , I want t o t e l l y o u ab out a n annua l awa r d t h a t w e h ave de c i d e d t o g ive f o r the b e s t u fo l o g i s t of the y e a r , t h e p e r s on who cont r i b ut e s t h e m o s t t o S au c e r Re s e a r c h fo r t he g iven y e ar . Th i s w i l l b e t h e f i r s t y e a r t h i s awa r d i s g iv e n � I h op e i t w i l l g o on every y e ar a f t e r t h i s , and I w i l l r e ad i t t o y o u , wh at i t s ay s . I h av e a p l acque h e re . I wi l l h o l d i t up s o y ou c an a l l s e e i t . I t s ay s : " Co n g r e s s o f S c i en t i f i c UFO l o g i s t s , " and I h ave the n am e h e re wh i ch I s h a l l c a l l out i n a momen t , "for ou t s t an d i n g cont r i bu t i o n t o t h e f i e l d o f UFO l o g i c a l re s e a rch dur i n g t h e y e a r 1 9 6 6 - 6 7 . ' ' I t h i n k t h e r e i s n o b e t t e r way t h an t h a t t o d e s c r i b e o u r n e x t s p e a ke r , Mr Q J ohn A . Ke e l . ( Pr e s e n t i n g p l a c q u e t o Mr . Ke e l . ) ( App l au s e . )

3 1

MR . JOHN A . KEE L : Th i s i s a comp l e t e s u rp r i s e t o me . I d i dn ' t know y o u w e r e g o i n g t o do t h i s G I t h in k , i n a l l fa i rne s s , t h a t t h e r e a r e two o t he r men t h a t s h ou l d h ave g o t t en i t . One i s J ohn F u l l e r wh o s t a r t e d t h e wh o l e t h i ng . ( App l au s e . ) And th e o t h e r i s t h e l a t e F r an k E dwards Q (App l au s e . ) Th i s i s g o i n g t o l oo k v e ry n i c e i n t h e w in d ow around t h e c o rn e r . Th i s i s an e a s y way t o t hr ow a s p e ak e r o f f t h e t rack . I h a d a ve ry s en s at i on a l s p e e ch I was g o i n g t o g ive you �

I n a mome n t I am go i n g t o t e l l you whe re t h e f ly in g s au c e r s come f r om , an d I am g o i n g t o t e l l you a l l t he s e c re t s o f t h e s au c e r s . I h ave b e en ch a s i n g t h e s e t h i n g s f o r a y e a r . I h ave t rave l e d i n s ome 2 0 s t at e s and t a l k e d t o thous ands o f p e op l e who h ave s e en t h e s e t h i n g s ; and I have s e en qu i t e a few of t h em my s e l f . One of t h em c ame down very c l o s e t o the car I was i n and s c a r e d the l iv i n g d ay l i gh t s out of me o n t h e n i gh t o f Ap r i l 3 rd down i n We s t V i r g i n i a Q I s p e n t a l o t o f t ime down t h e re , a s s ome o f y o u know , c h a s i n g t h e Mo t h Man , b u t neve r c au g h t h im . We may d o a TV s e r i e s on t h e Mo t h Man .

I am s o r ry , th i s p l acque r e a l ly th rew me o f f t h e t ra c k . I s t ar t e d out a ye a r a go t o app l y t h e s o - c a l l e d s c i en t i f i c m e t h o d t o s au c e r s i g h t i n g s , an d I s t a r t e d che c k i n g rep o r t s f rom a l l ove r t h e coun t ry . I ende d up w i t h 1 0 , 0 0 0 rep o rt s fo r t h e y e a r 1 9 6 6 � I h ave t r i e d an d I am s t i l l t ry in g t o s o rt t h e s e i n t o c a t e go r i e s : t h e t im e s t h a t t h e ob j e c t s we re s e en , the k i n d s of o b j e ct s s e en , the typ e of w i tn e s s , an d s o o n , i n t h e h o p e t h a t th i s k i n d o f i n f o rma t i on w i l l g ive u s s ome c lu e t o wh a t they a r e . B u t , a s I p lung e d de e p e r i n t o t h i s mys t e ry , I d i s cove r e d t h a t t h e f ly i n g s au c e r s a r e n o t t h e my s t e ry . The mys t e ry i s s ome th i n g e l s e . T h e my s t e ry i s mo r e i n t h e n at u r e o f wha t we c a l l c o nt a c t e e s an d l an d i ng s . I t h i n k t h a t t h e s e o b j e c t s are do i n g s om e th i n g s h e r e n ow and t h a t t h ey a r e do i n g t h em at l ow l ev e l a l l ove r t he coun t ry - ­

a l l o v e r t h e w o r l d - - and t h a t t he y are do i n g them c on s t an t l y .

I wou l d l i k e t o r e a d t o y o u a typ i c a l c o n t ac t e e s t o ry from t h e Da i ly T e x a r k an i an , o f T e x a r k an a , Arkans as . The da t e i s Ap r i l 2 5 . I t s ay s t h a t o n F r i day n i gh t , one Judge L awrence Byrne , who is a d i s t i n gu i s he d m an k nown fo r h i s h on e s ty t hroughout t h e commun i ty , c l a ims t h a t h e wa s d r i v i n g a l on g a b ay o u o ut s i de o f T e x a rkana , an d h e s aw wh at h e d e s c r ib e d a s an a lum i num d i s c - - a l a r g e a lum i num d i s c - - and i t was o n t h e g round ; a n d h e wen t ove r t o t h is t h i n g an d t h e re w e r e t h r e e p e op l e t he re . An d h e t a l ke d w i th t h em , o r t r i e d t o t a l k w i th t h em . Th ey c ou l dn ' t unde rs t and h im and h e cou l d n o t unde r s t an d t h em . They we r e s p e a k i n g i n s om e k i n d o f s t r ange , f o re i gn l an gua ge . They we r e s l i gh t i n s t at u re and t h ey h a d O r i ent a l eye s a n d dark s k i n and h i gh ch e e kb on e s , and h e t hought t h a t t h ey w e r e J ap ane s e . Ev en t h o u g h h e cou l d n o t t a l k w i t h them , t hey t oo k h im ab o a r d th i s mach i n e and a l l ow e d h im t o e x am ine i t . They g av e h im a gu i de d t o u r th rough the mach i n e , and when t hey l e t h im out , the th i n g t o o k o f f an d f l ew away .

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Now , t h e re i s n o t h i n g t o o rema rkab l e about t h i s s t o ry , b e c au s e we h ave b e e n he a r i n g t h em a l l t h e t ime for t h e l a s t 2 0 y e a r s ; b u t th i s s t o ry i s r e a l l y dat e d Ap r i l 2 5 t h , 18 9 7 , and i t i s one o f the hund r e d s of cont a c t s t o r i e s of 18 9 7 . And t h ey a l l fa l l i nt o t h e s ame c a t e go ry . And i t h a s o n l y b e e n in t h e l a s t y e a r t h a t r e s e a r c h e r s around t h e c oun t ry and a roun d the wo r l d h ave b e gun to go b ac k t o o l d news p ap e r s to t ry t o f i n d out wh a t t he s e d i r i g i b l e - s h ap e d o b j e c t s we re . The re were no d i r i g i b l e s t h e n . A few ye a r s l a t e r , Count Von Z epp e l i n c ame a l on g wi t h h i s z e pp e l i n . The e xp e r imen t s wi t h l i gh t e r - t h an - a i r c r af t u p t o t h a t t ime h a d b e en ve ry un fo r ­t un at e . Th ey c ra s he d , o r t h ey went ab out 2 0 m i l e s an d b l ew up .

S o you a l l h ave h e ard o f the s e f amous s i ght i n g s , an d we have a l l k i n d s o f con t a c t s t o r i e s ; and many o f them c omp a re f avo r ab l y w i � h e a c h o th e r even t hough they we re not w i d e l y c i rc u l a t e d a t t h e t ime . T h e maj o r i ty o f c on t ac t s t o r i e s are d e s c r i b i n g t h e p i l o t s a s b e i n g n o rma l - l o o k ing p e op l e . The Judge s a i d t h a t h e thought he r an i n t o s ome J ap ane s e p e op l e , b u t t h e m a j o r i ty o f t h em have de s c r ib e d n o rma l - l o o k i n g p e op l e wh o c ou l d s p e ak En g l i s h v e ry we l l , a t l e a s t i n t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s rep o r t s . The r e i s a woman de s c r i b e d i n s ev e r a l o f th e s e . I n f a c t , i n a s e r i e s o f a c c ount s ran g i n g th rough Texas and Arkan s a s and into C a l i fo rn i a , we h ave three p a s s en ­g e r s de s c r i b e d . On e wa s an e l d e r ly man w i t h a b e ar d , ano the r was a youn g e r man , an d t h e th i rd was a woman ; and the s e t h re e p e op l e we re s e en o r t h r e e p e op l e l i ke them were app a ren t ly s e en a l l over t h e coun t ry du r i n g t h a t f l ap .

Now , y o u know wh e re th i s l e ad s us . I t s o r t o f i nd i c a t e s t h a t mayb e Adam s k i w a s t e l l i n g t h e t ru t h a f t e r a l l . Mayb e a l o t o f t h e s e o t h e r p eop l e are t e l l i n g the t ru t h , and y e t the i r s t o r i e s a r e c on t rad i c t o ry .

We g o b a ck t o t he s e p e op l e in 18 9 7 . Al l o f t he s e p e op l e we re t o l d s ome t h i n g d i f f e r e n t . N a t u r a l ly , t h e who l e wo r l d wa s i n a n up r o a r over th i s my s t e r i ou s d i r i g i b l e . Ac t u a l ly , t h e re we re a l o t o f them , b e c aus e on the s ame d ay you f i n d a d i r i g i b l e w a s s e en ove r Ch i c ago , one was s e en over T e x a s , and one ove r Lon don . There we r e too many o f t h em . Th e re mus t have b e e n s eve r a l o f t h e s e m a ch ine s f l y i n g aroun d . You f in d t h a t whe n w i t ne s s e s app r o a ch e d t h e p i l o t s . on t h e g round and a s k e d t h em whe r e t h ey weTe from , t h ey a l l got a d i f fe re n t answe r . In o n l y one c a s e d i d t h e p i l o t · men t i on o ut e r s p a c e , and in th a t c a s e they s a i d t h a t they had j U s t bu i l t th i s t h i n g and t h a t they we re g o i n g t o t ry t o f ly t o Mar s i n i t . I n a l l o f t h e o t h e r c a s e s , t h ey c l a ime d they we re l oc a l inven t o rs from I n d i an a an d/ o r Neb r a s ka , an d i n eve ry c a s e they g ave a d i f f e r e n t s t o ry and s a i d t h a t t he fu l l de t a i l s o f t h e i nvent i on wou l d b e re l e a s e d t o t h e wo r l d " any d ay now . " Th i s was i n 18 9 7 . And i n a coup l e o f c a s e s t hey men t i on e d t h e wo r l d s i t u a t i on a t t he t ime . T h e y s a i d t h a t a s s oon a s Cub a was f re e , they wou l d r e l e a s e t h e i r i nve n t i on t o t h e wo r l d .

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The p o i n t i s - - i f t h e re i s a p o i n t - - t h a t they we re d e l i b e ra t e l y ly i n g t o t h e s e w i t n e s s e s . Obv i ou s l y , a l l t h e w i t ne s s e s , o r s ome o f t h em , t h e Jud g e , t h e p o l i c e o ff i ce r s , and s o on , who h ave t o l d t he s e s t o r i e s may n o t h ave b e en m a k i n g up t h e s t o r i e s . Th ey may h ave made up s ome de t a i l s , a s o f t en h ap p en s , but I th i nk t h a t t h e s e p eop l e we re b e ing l i e d t o , and I t h i n k that t o day t h e s e p e op l e are b e ing l i e d t o - - t h e con t a c t e e s .

Th e re i s an e n o rmous c o n t a c t e e s i tuat i on g o i n g on r i gh t n ow , t h i s we ek , t h roughout t h e coun t ry ; an d t h e s e a r e wh a t w e c a l l s i l e nt cont a c t e e s . Y o u nev e r h e a r ab out t h em . They n eve r make any no i s e . In f a c t , t h e ne x t - do o r n e i ghb o r s don ' t know t h e i r s t o r i e s . As I t rave l , I d i g out t he s e p e op l e . S om e t ime s i t i s a l o t o f hard work . Some t ime s i t requ i r e s two we e k s o f wo r k t o l oc a t e o r t o t rack down o n e rumo r and to t a l k w i t h the p e op l e . And t h ey a l l t e l l me b a s i c a l l y t h e s am e t h i n g s , e x c ep t about t h e me s s ag e s t h a t t h ey h ave re ce ive d .

Woo drow De r e nb e rg e r i n We s t V i r g i n i a s ay s th at h e was t o l d t h e s e c ame from L ano l u s , and you a re fam i l i ar wi t h o th e r s t o r i e s wh e re name s o f p l ane t s l i ke C l a r i on and Ma s e r and s o o n h ave b e en ment i on e d .

The t ru t h i s t h a t t h e f ly i n g s au c e r s don ' t wan t us t o know whe re t h ey c om e from . They a r e qu i t e w i l l i n g t o cont a c t u s , and t h ey do c o n t a c t u s frequent ly . Th ey con t a c t i n d i v i dua l s o n h i g hway s . They c on t ac t p e op l e o n farm s , i n i s o l a t e d s p o t s . And t h e r e i s a l o t o f i t go i n g on . I n · a few m i nu t e s I c an ' t p rove any o f th i s , but you h ave t o b e l i eve t h a t I h ave t h e d o c ume n t a t i on , t h a t I h a v e t a l ke d t o many p e op l e . I have fas c i n a t i n g t ap e r e c o r d i n g s , s ome t ap e re c o r d i n g s made in New J e r s ey and s ome ma d e down in We s t V i r g i n i a , and i f you p l ay t h em b o t h s i d e b y s i de , t h e p e op l e are t e l l i n g t h e s ame s t o ry , a l t hough t h ey have neve r h e ard o f e a ch o t h e r . The i r s t o r i e s h ave neve r b e en pub l i s h e d , an d t hey are n o t t h e k in d o f s t o r i e s t h a t p e op l e l i ke Adams k i have b e e n t e l l i ng . The re are d e t a i l s ab out t h e c r a f t and about t h e typ e o f b e i n g s t h a t have app roac h ­e d t h em . T h e r e a r e o t h e r de t a i l s .

Wh en I f i n d a new c on t ac t e e , I h ave a que s t i onna i re o f e i gh t q ue s t i on s , a n d i f t h ey an swe r t he s e qu e s t i on s r i gh t , I t en d t o b e l i eve t h e i r s t o ry . I f in d a l s o t h a t t h e maj o r i ty o f t h e s e new cont ac t ee s are wom e n . Th e re are v e ry few men . I t h i nk t h i s p r o b ab l y h a s b e en t h e c a s e t h roughout . P e r h ap s w e u s ua l l y t h i n k o f women a s b e i n g t a l k a t ive , but I t h ink women a l s o a r e l e s s s kep t i c a l and e a s i e r t o app ro a ch .

We a l s o h ave a numb e r o f c a s e s wh e re p e op l e h ave b e come f r i g h t e n e d and have gone t o t h e p o l i c e comp l a i n i n g t h a t t he s e t h i n g s we re l an d i n g i n t h e i r b a c ky a r d s an d t h a t t h e s e p e op l e were t ry i n g t o t a l k t o t h em ; an d wh i l e t h e p o l i c e k e ep a

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r e c o rd o f t h i s , t h ey make fun o f t h e s e p e op l e who rep o r t . Whe n I wa l k i n t o a p o l i c e s t a t i on ( t ha t i s a lway s my f i rs t s t op ) , t h e y s ay , "Oh , we ' ve g o t a nut d own t h e r o a d wh o c l a ims t h e s e t h i n g s a r e l an d i n g i n t h e i r b acky a rd . " So I g o and t a l k w i t h t h a t "nut , ' 1 who i s u s u a l l y a woman , and s he u s u a l l y h a s t h e s ame s t o ry th a t I h a v e h e a r d a hun d re d t im e s e I coul d p rac t i c a l l y r e c i t e i t , but I won ' t . As I s ay , t h e y are d e t a i l s that I am k e ep i n g to my s e l f , a l t hough n ow I am b e g in ­n i n g t o s p r e a d t hem amon g a few i nve s t i g a t o r s . We are u s i n g t he s e d e t a i l s t o che c k o u t t he s e s t o r i e s .

We h a d a l an d in g repo r t e d on Ap r i l 1 4 out i n L o n g I s l an d wh i ch r e c e i ve d ve ry l i t t l e p ub l i c i ty , a l though J im kn ows about i t . He ment i on e d i t in h i s l a s t S au c e r News l e t t e r t h a t g o e s o u t t o S auc e r News s ub s c r i b e r s . T h e o b j e ct l ande d i n a r a t h e r de s o l a t e p l ac e o n L o n g I s l an d . The w i t n e s s was d r i v i n g a n au t omo b i l e , an d t h e c a r s t a l l e d ; an d h e s aw a d o o r op en on t h e o b j e c t and s ome k i n d of m e c h an i c a l dev i c e g o t out o f t h e o b j e c t . I t was n o t a p e r s on , but t h e w i t ne s s w a s ab l e t o s e e i n s i de t h e ob j e c t . H e s a i d h e s aw d i a l s and s o o n . And t h e r e we re a few d e t a i l s i n h i s s t o ry t h a t c on f i rm e d de t a i l s t h a t w e h ave h e a r d e l s ewhe re . H e s a i d t h i s m e c h an i c a l dev i c e go t o u t a n d s h o ve l e d u p s om e d i rt , j us t l i ke t h i s t h i n g we s en t to t h e mo on .

Two we e k s e ar l i e r t h an t h a t , o n March 3 1 s t , s ome t h in g s upp o s e d l y l an d e d o n a f a rm i n We l l i n g t on , T e x a s , and t h e w i tn e s s s a i d h e d i d n o t s e e anyb o dy , b u t t h a t a do o r opened and h e h e a r d a vo i c e wh i ch i nv i t e d h im ab o a r d . He wa l k e d ab o a r d t h e th i n g , a n d a vo i c e t o ld h im t h ey wou l d t ake h im fo r a r i de i f h e wou l d subm i t t o a phys i c a l e x am in a t i on . He r e fu s e d to s ubm i t to the p hy s i c a l exam i n a t i on . He got o f f t h e t h i n g , an d i t t o o k o ff . The r e w a s o n e de t a i l i n h i s s t o ry wh i ch h a s gone unpub l i s h e d , and when I l e a rne d t h a t one de t a i l , I t en d e d t o b e l i eve h i s s t o ry was t rue .

I t h i n k t h a t we n ow h ave p r ob ab ly m any t h ou s an d s o f t he s e s t o r i e s t h a t are go i n g unno t i c e d b e c au s e n o b o dy i s i nve s t i ga ­t i n g t h em . The A i r F o rc e i nve s t i g a t i on , a s i t h a s b e en s a i d h e re many , many t ime s , i s a j o k e . I f you rep o r t a s i gh t in g t o t h e A i r F o rc e , t h e y wi l l m a i l you a f o rm wh i ch i s an i d i o t i c f o rm t o b e g in w i t h , i f you h ave ever s e e n i t . They w i l l ma i l th i s f o rm and exp e c t you t o f i l l i t out and m a i l i t b a c k t o t h em , and t h ey w i l l p u t i t i n t h e i r f i l e . I f you f a i l t o c ome up w i t h one l i t t l e de t a i l l i k e wh a t the t emp e ra ture was t h e day an d n i gh t y o u s aw t h e o b j e c t , t hen t h ey c l a s s i fy i t a s " in s u ff i c i e n t , " an d t h ey p u t i t i n t he i r i n s u f fi c i en t f i l e . They don ' t r e c o rd i t i n t h e i r s t a t i s t i c s 9

I n s om e c a s e s - - and I have t a l ke d w i t h p e op l e wh o h ave gone t h rough i t - - t h ey h ave rep o r t e d a l ow - l eve l s i gh t ing , o r h ave s a i d t h a t t he i r au t omo b i l e wa s b e i n g p u r s ue d by the s e

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o b j e c t s ; and i n t ho s e c a s e s , t h e A i r Fo r c e may make s evera l phone c a l l s , an d t h e s e c a l l s u s u a l l y come l on g - d i s t ance from Wr i ght - Pa t t e r s on , and t hey w i l l s ome t ime s be as l on g as t hr e e hours , i n wh i ch s ome b o dy i n Wr i gh t - P a t t e r s on g r i l l s t h e s e p e op l e ve ry c ar e fu l l y ab out every de t a i l . And i t i s obvi ou s t o t h e wi t ne s s e s who are i n t e rv i ewe d in t h i s way t ha t a fo rm i s b e i n g f i l l e d ou t o n t h e o t h e r e n d , a much more e l ab o ra t e f o rm t han t he o n e t h a t i s ma i l e d out .

I h ave gone t o t h e A i r F o r c e and s a i d , " I am n o t i n t e re s ­t e d i n t h i s f o rm t h a t i s mai l e d o u t ; I wou l d l i ke t o s e e t h e o t h e r o n e , t h e one you u s e on t h e phone c a l l s . " They s ay : "Oh , we haven ' t g o t any t h i ng l i ke t h a t . ' ' So t h e n I p ro du c e t h e t ap e s o f th e s e p e op l e wh o t o l d me t he s t o ry a n d t o l d me the q ue s t i on s they we re a s ke d . And many o f the qu e s t i on s t h a t a r e a s k e d i n t h e s e phone c onve r s a t i on s s e em qu i t e i rre l e ­van t t o t h e f l y i n g - s au c e r p ro b l em . Obv i ou s l y , t h e Ai r F o r c e and th e G o v e rnment are aware t h a t t h e re i s a l i t t l e b i t go i n g on , b u t t hey are n o t p ay i n g t o o m u c h a t t en t i o n t o t he i n d i v i d ­u a l s i ght i n g s , and n o b o dy c ou l d a f fo rd t o . They are p ay i ng a g r e a t de a l o f a t t en t i on t o t h e a re a s wh e re t h e s i gh t i n g s are c o n s t an t .

S i gh t i n g s are cons t an t i n We s t V i rg i n i a . They are c o n s t an t i n I n d i an a . They a r e c on s t an t i n Kans a s . Th ey are c on s t an t i n N e b r a s k a . We s ome t ime s h ave 1 5 0 s i gh t i n g s i n one d ay a roun d the c o un t ry . The s c op e of t h i s th ing is un ima g i n ab l e , and g o e s unrep o r t e d b y t h e g e n e r a l p re s s , a t l e a s t by t he maj o r me d i a . T h e l o c a l n ews p ap e rs a r e o ft en f i l l e d w i t h th i s t h in g . They are o ft en c a r ry i ng h e ad l i n e s ab out s au c e r s i gh t i n g s . They are o ft en wr i t i n g e d i t o r i a l s , a s k in g , ' 'Why do e s n o t s omeb o dy t e l l u s s om e t h i n g ? "

When I wr i t e t h e s e news p ap e r a r t i c l e s , t h ey o f t e n c arry my a r t i c l e s on t h e e d i t o r i a l p a ge , o r on t h e front p a g e , b e c au s e in m any news p ap e r s now t h ey have d ropp ed t h e wo rd "UFO " a l t og e t he r , an d t h ey c a l l t hem " Sp a c e Sh ip s , " and t hey wi l l s ay , "An o t h e r s p a c e s h ip was s e en l a s t n i gh t by 8 9 p e op l e . ' ' Th e i r p a t i en c e i s we a r i n g t h i n out t he re , an d t h e A i r F o rc e i s a l i t t l e aware o f i t ; b u t , m o s t l y , t h e A i r F o r c e i s out of t ouch w i th the general s i tu a t i on ; howeve r , wh en we h ave an area wh e re t h e s i gh t i n g s are cons t an t , we a l s o have c on s t an t A i r F o r c e a c t i v i ty i n t h e a i r . Th i s t ak e s t h e f o rm o f f l y i ng b o x c a r s . I th i n k mo s t o f you know what a f l y i n g b o xcar i s . I t i s a v e ry l a rge c ar go p l ane , and i t l o o k s r a t h e r we i rd ; an d t h e s e t h i n g s f l y a t t remendous t op l ev e l , and t hey are f i l l e d w i t h i n s t rument a t i on . An d i n c e r t a i n are a s , whe t h e r i t i s We s t V i r g i n i a o r I n d i an a o r Long I s l and , t h e s e p l an e s f l y b ac k an d fo r t h a l l n i gh t l on g ove r t h e are as wh e re UFOs h ave l an de d . They a re k e ep i n g an eye o u t , and obv i ous l y t h ey have i n s t rume n ­t at i on . They a r e t ry i n g t o d o s ome t h in g ab ou t t h em . They are t ry i n g to make s ome de t e rm i n a t i on . B u t t hey don ' t wan t t h a t

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muc h p ub l i c i ty o n t h em . I have n o t wr i t t en any a r t i c l e s on t h a t a s p e c t as y e t , but I h ave got a wh opp e r c om i n g up .

Now , every b o dy i s a c cus i n g th e C I A o f i nve s t i ga t i n g t h i s . I w i s h t h e C I A wou l d b e g i n by inve s t i g a t i n g i t s e l f . (App l au s e . ) As you know , t h ey h ave a ve ry b i g b u i l d i n g down o ut s i de o f Wa s h i n g t on . I t h a s a s i gn p o in t i n g t o t h e Bu re au o f Pub l i c Ro a d s , and eve ryb o dy knows t h a t t h a t me an s i t i s the C IA Bu i l d i n g . An d i f you re a l l y wan t t o g o out t o the C IA Bu i l d ­i n g , t h e re i s a l imous i n e t h a t l e av e s eve ry d ay from i n f ro n t o f t h e S ov i e t Emb a s s y t h a t w i l l t ak e you out t h e re . Th e C IA h a s d e n i e d t o m e p e r s on a l l y t h a t t h e y h ave h a d any i n t e re s t i n t h i s s ub j e c t s i n c e 1 9 5 3 , s i nc e t h e Rob i n s on rep o rt . Bu t s omeb o dy i s v e ry i n t e r e s t e d , and t hey are i nve s t i ga t i n g the s e t h i n g s i n g r e a t d e t a i l . I t i s n o t t h e A i r F o r c e , an d i t i s n o t t h e C I A .

Th e s e p e op l e , wh o eve r they are , we re out i n t h e S t a t e o f Wa s h i n g t o n a mon t h ago , an� t h ey wen t t h rou gh e i gh t c ommun i t i e s ou t t h e re . I t was l i k e a b l i t z k re i g . T h e r e was a t remendous f l ap out t h e re , i n c l u d i n g th e d i s ap p e a ran c e of m any d o g s , wh i ch g o e s hand - i n - hand w i t h a l l o f t h i s o You may h ave h e a rd ab out i t . We a l way s have d o g k i dn app i n g . G o d knows wh at UFOs are d o i n g w i th do g s ! But whe never t h e re i s a r e a l b i g f l ap , t h e s e my s t e ry m e n o f t en t urn up . Th ey went t h ro u gh e i gh t commun i t i e s o u t i n t h e S t at e o f Was h in g t on , an d they t o l d t h e w i t ne s s e s t o k e ep q u i e t ab o u t wh a t t he y h a d s e en . And t h en when the l o c a l n ews p ap e r s t r i e d t o do s om e b i g UFO s t o r i e s a n d went around t o t h e w i t ne s s e s , t h e w i t ne s s e s s a i d , "1,\Te we re t o l d n o t t o t a l k . " I t a l k e d t o t he r ep o r t e r wh o c a r r i e d out t h e i nve s t i g at i o n , and I g o t th e n am e s o f s ome o f t h e s e w i tn e s s e s and c a l l e d t h em up . I t i re d t o g e t s ome th i n g out o f th em . They wou l d n o t d e ny t h a t t h e y h a d s e en t h e s e t h i ng s . I t wou l d h ave b e en e a s y f o r t h em t o do t h a t . T h e y a r e hon e s t p e op l e . They j us t s a i d t h ey c ou l d n o t s ay any t h i n g about i t . They h a d b e en warn e d t o k e ep qu i e t .

Th e s am e t h i n g h a s b e en happ en i n g out o n Long I s l an d and in many o th e r s e c t i on s . W i t h i n 30 m i l e s of h e re have b e en s eve r a l me n - i n - b l ac k c a s e s i n the l a s t two we e k s . I have c ome w i t h in a c o up l e of hours of c a t ch i n g one of t h e s e . I h ave r ep o r t e d it to t h e Air F o r c e o We hav e had Air Force imp e r ­s on a t o r s ou t t h e re . I have g iven the A i r F o r c e t h e numb e rs t h a t w e r e o n t h e p h o ny i den t i f i c a t i o n c ards t h a t t h e s e men c arr i e d , and I p rac t i c a l ly d em an d e d t h at the A i r F o rc e p u s h t h i s t h i n g t h rough . I h av e a l s o b e e n t o t h e FB I wi t h t h i s , and I am s t i l l runn i n g aroun d out th e re t ry in g t o c a t c h t h e s e p e op l e ; and I h av e h i gh hop e s t h a t one o f t h e s e day s I w i l l . Mayb e t he n we w i l l f i nd out a l i t t l e b i t more ab out why t hey \vant to s upp re s s the f a c t th a t s ome t h i n g is h app en i n g , n o t o n l y i n o u r s k i e s , b u t o n t h e ground whe r e t he s e t h i n g s are ' l an d i n g . Th ey mu s t have a r e a s on f o r i t o

I �

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Th ey we re do i n g t h e s ame t h i n g i n 1 8 9 7 , an d we have m en - i n - b l ac k c a s e s in 1 8 9 7 . I n o n e c a s e an o b j e c t fe l l out o f o n e of th e s e t h i n g s wh en it f l ew over a f i e l d , an d t h e o b j e c t was s imp ly a p i e c e o f p o t t e ry w i t h s ome ve ry s t range wr i t i n g on i t . Th i s o b j e c t wa s d i s p l ay e d i n a l o c a l s t o re i n Tex a s , and a day o r s o l a t e r a m an t h a t no one had eve r s e en in t h e t own h e fo r e c ame through and he b o u gh t t he ob j e c t . He p a i d a gre a t d e a l o f money fo r i t , an d h e l o o k e d l i k e an Or i en t a l . H i s s k in w a s dark . He h a d h i gh ch e e k b o n e s . He had n a r row , s l an t in g O r i e n t a l eye s . The fu l l rep o rt wa s i n t h e n e ws p ap e r s o f T e x a s in 1 8 9 7 .

The d r i v e r s o f s ome o f t h e s e c a r s t h a t our mys t e ry men h ave b e en go i n g a round i n h e re have b e en de s c r i b e d the s ame way . S o , p o s s i b ly we h av e b e en a c cu s i ng t h e A i r F o rc e and t h e C I A and a l l t h e s e o t h e r a g en c i e s - - we h ave b e e n do i n g t h em d i rt a l l t h e s e ye ars . S om e b o dy e l s e i s i n t e re s t e d i n k e ep i n g t h e s e t h i n g s q u i e t , an d I h o p e ve ry s o on n ow t h a t we w i l l have enough of t h e an swe r s so we c an put t h em t o ge th e r i n a n e w k in d o f b o o k ; an d I a m v e ry s o rry t h a t Frank E dwards won ' t b e h e r e t o s e e i t , but we are c l o s e to the end .

I th i n k I w i l l drop out now . Than k you . (App l aus e . )

MR . MOS E L EY : Th at w i l l wrap i t up fo r th i s a ft e rnoon . We have a fu l l p ro g ram th i s eve n in g , i n c l u d i n g the Ama z ing Ran d i an d many o t h e r p e op l e that I t o l d you about .

# # #

SATURDAY EVEN I NG , JUNE 2 4 , 1 9 6 7

M I SS R OWENA S T I R I S S (M I S S UFO) : G o o d even i n g an d we l c om e t o t h e S a t u rday Even i n g S e s s i on o f our c onven t i on ! I am p o s i t ive t ha t y o u a re in fo r a very i n f o rma t i v e an d e x c i t i n g even in g . W i t h o u t fu r t h e r cons i de ra t i on , i t i s my p l e as u re t o i n t ro du c e t o y ou t h e Ch a i rman o f t h e Conve n t i on , J ame s Mo s e l ey .

MR . MOS E LEY : Than k y o u v e ry much ! An d we l c ome a g a i n t o t h e S au c e r C onven t i on ! W e h a ve a f e w m o r e announ c eme n t s t h a t we wan t t o m a k e b e fo re w e i n t r o du c e our f i rs t s p e ake r .

I don ' t t h i n k t h a t I men t i on e d t hat I made an LP r e c o rd w i t h L o n g J o hn Neb e l . I t h i n k you h ave s e en i t out t h e re . O f c o u r s e , I h ave a p e r s on a l i n t e re s t i n your b e in g in t e re s t e d i n i t , s o i f y o u s e e i t an d wou l d l i k e t o buy i t , w e are n o t a g a i n s t t h a t i de a . I a l s o h ave a b o o k t h a t I wro t e re c en t l y , o r i t i s an ant ho l o gy , re a l ly , o f S auce r News go i n g b a c k t o 1 9 5 4 . I t i s c a l l e d J im Mo s e l ey ' s B o o k o f Sauce r News .

We h ave a coup l e o f o t he r t h i n g s t o men t i o n t o you , a c oup l e o f p e op l e wh o are in our aud i en c e , fo r i n s t ance . I

-

. . ..:. :· .....

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have h e a r d t h a t t h e r e a r e s ev e r a l p e op l e who h ave a s k e d ab out Dr . E dward Con don of Co l o rado Un ive r s i ty , a s to wh e t h e r he i s h e re o r n o t . I b e l i eve h e i s h e r e . I don ' t know i f he wan t s t o s t an d up and s o rt o f wave t o t h e re s t o f t h e c rowd , but we w i l l s e e . Wi l l Dr . E dward Con don s t an d up i f h e i s he re , p l e a s e ? ( Dr . Condon aro s e . ) (App l aus e . )

I n my op i n i o n , Dr . Condon ' s group i n C o l o r ado i s do i n g a f i ne an d i n t e re s t i n g j ob , and I th i nk we are g o i n g t o l o o k fo rward t o t h e r e s u l t s o f th i s s t u dy wh en pub l i s h e d abo u t a y e a r from n ow , I t h ink . The re has b e en s ome c r i t i c i sm t h a t s ome o f you h ave made . W e s h o u l d wa i t and s e e wh at t h e r e s u l t s o f th i s i nve s t i ga t i o n a r e b e fo re w e make any s uc h c r i t i c i sm . Th i s i s m y p e r s on a l op i n i on .

B e fo re we g o o n , t h e r e i s one o th e r p e r s on who I wou l d l i k e t o i n t ro du c e f rom our aud i en c e , a m an who h a s c ome a l l t h e way from En g l an d j us t t o b e at th i s Saucer C onvent i on . He is the h e ad of a f i rm of b o o k p ub l i s h e r s c a l l e d Nev i l l e - Sp e a rman . H i s n ame i s Nevi l l e Arm s t.ron g . Wi l l you p l e a s e s t an d

·up , Mr .

Arm s t ro n g ! (Mr Arm s t ro n g aro s e � ) (App l aus e . )

Now , I h ave one ve ry s ad b i t o f n ews t o announ c e t o you b e fo r e we i n t roduce our s p e ake r . Many - - I t h i n k a l l of you have h e a r d of F r an k E dward s , and m any of you h ave b ou gh t h i s b o o k s . I don ' t know i f you have s e en i t in t h e p ap e r , o r i f y ou h e a r d i t o n L on g J o hn Neb e l ' s p ro g ram l as t n i ght . F rank E dw a r d s d i e d ye s t e rd ay .

F ROM THE F LOOR : Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .

MR . MOS E LEY : ( Co n t inu i n g ) I don ' t know any t h i n g mo re about it t h an t h a t .

Ou r f i r s t s p e a k e r t on i gh t i s a man wh o h a s b e en a p i one e r re s e ar ch e r i n t he UFO f i e l d . H e h a s wr i t t e n two b o o k s . H e h a s p ub l i s h e d d o z en s o f U F O b o o k s . He i s p rob ab ly one o f t h e b e s t k nown o f a l l t h e f l y i n g - s auce r re s e ar c h e r s . H i s n ame i s G r ay B a r ke r . L e t ' s g ive a b i g h an d t o G ray Barke r ! (App l au s e . )

MR . G RAY BARKE R : L ad i e s and g e n t l emen , b e fo re I g o i n t o wh a t I h ave t o s ay , t h ere i s o n e t h i n g t h a t I wi l l s ay t h a t I f e e l v e ry , ve ry s t ron g l y ab out : T h e re i s o n e man h e re t o d ay who d e s e rve s a g re a t de a l o f commen dat i on , m ayb e ab ove a l l t h e o t h e r p e op l e h e re . He ' i s a man who h a s wo r k e d v e ry h a r d f o r ab o u t s ix mon th s . S i n c e I p e r s o n a l ly know h im and h ave b e e n t a l k in g w i t h h im , I know h o w h a r d he h a s w o r ke d . H e i s t h e man re s p o n s i b l e f o r t h 1 s g i an t c onven t i on o W i t hout h i m t h i s wou l d n o t have b e en p o s s i b l e . I wan t you t o g ive a ve ry b i g round o f app l au s e f o r Mr . J im Mo s e l ey , t h e man re s p o n s i b l e f o r t h i s c onven t i on . (App l au s e . ) Th ank you v e ry much .

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I d on ' t kn ow how we l l . I am go i n g t o d o t on i gh t , l ad i e s and g e n t l emen . I n fa c t , a l l day t o d ay I h ave f e l t l i ke n o t e v e n g o i n g on � S om e o f you p e rhap s h e ar d t h e Long J ohn Show l a s t n i gh t , and you h e a r d J im ' s announc emen t a wh i l e a g o ; and I am v e ry , v e ry s o r ry and r e g r e t deep l y t h a t a _ ce r t a i n p re d i c ­t i on wh i ch I r e c e ive d was r e a d on t h e L on g J o hn S how , o r announ c e d . We d i s cus s e d i t e ar l i e r , b e fo re t h i s happen e d , an d a g r e e d t h a t t h i s s l1 ou l d no t b e on the a i r , p a rt i cu l a r l y due t o my g r e a t f r i ends h ip w i t h Mr . E dwards wh o , i f h e wa s n ' t t h e g r e a t e s t re s e arch e r i n t o t h i s s ub j e c t , c e rt a i n ly wa s one o f t h e g r e a t e s t . The re i s a l o t ab out F rank E dwa rds ' r o l e i n t h i s r e s e a r c h t h a t o n l y a v e ry few p e op l e know � I don ' t t h i n k you p e op l e wou l d k n o w a b o u t t h i s f rom h i s b o o k s . Th e re i s a g r e at d e a l t h a t h e neve r d i d make p ub l i c . I do have c e rt a i n c o r r e s p o n de n c e from h i m i n my f i l e s wh i ch , a ft e r a re s p e c t ab l e l eng t h o f t ime , I p ro b ab ly w i l l re l e as e . Then we w i l l p ro b ab l y kn ow m o re ab out h im .

I h a d a t a l k w i t h J im ab o u t mayb e h av i n g t h e t rad i t i on a l o n e m inut e o f s i l en c e i n r e s p e c t fo r Mr . E dwards , b u t we d e c i de d t h a t F r an k E dwards was t h e l a s t p e rs o n on e ar t h who wou l d want s i l en c e . He wou l d wan t u s t o wa s t e n o t one m in u t e i n l e arn i ng m o r e ab o u t wh a t i s g o i ng o n . So , l ad i e s and g e n t l emen , l e t us n o t h ave o n e s e cond o f s i l en c e . L e t ' s a l l g o f o rward and t ry t o l e arn mo re ab out wh a t i s h app e n i ng i n t h e s k i e s o v e r t h i s p l an e t .

.

I p rom i s e d J im I wou l dn ' t s p e ak t o o l on g , and I t h i nk I w i l l g e t i n t o s om e o f my p re p a r e d l e c ture I h a d ava i l ab l e . We a r e g o i n g to h ave s ome s l i de s , and wh at I am g o i n g to t ry t o t e l l y o u i s a b r i e f o u t l i n e o f my own ro l e i n f l y i � g - s au c e r r e s e a rch , wh i ch I t h ink c ov e r s s ome o f t h e v e ry i nt e re s t in g f a c e t s o f i t .

·

I g o t i n t e re s t e d i n f l y i n g s au c e r s b a c k i n 1 9 5 2 . I h a d h e a r d ab o u t t h em , b u t I h a dn ' t t hough t t o o m u c h ab o u t t h em . T h e n s om e t h i n g h ap p e n e d v e ry n e ar wh e re I l iv e d . T o s o rt o f s e t t h e m o o d f o r t h i s , c o u l d w e h ave t h e l i gh t s o u t now , o r d imme d d own , an d mayb e w e c an s o r t o f r e c on s t ruc t s ome o f the d r am a that w a s go i n g o n a t that t im e .

L e t ' s s ay y o u a r e a t e e na g e r o r a h ou s ew i fe o r m ayb e a l i t t l e ch i l d i n F l a two o ds , We s t V i r g i n i a . On t he even i n g o f S e p t emb e r 1 2 , a t ab out 7 : 0 0 o ' c l o ck , j u s t ab o u t � h e t ime i t i s g e t t i n g d a rk , you l o o k up i n t h e s ky f rom t h e p l ay g round and y o u s e e s ome t h i n g f i e ry g o ove r a c r o s s t h e s ky and l an d o n t h e t op o f a h i l l . You t h i nk i t i s a me t e o r , p e rh ap s a s h o o t i n g s t a r , and t h a t i f you g o up t h e re y o u w i l l p ro b ab l y f i n d a r e s i due from i t . Wh en you g e t t o t h e t op o f t h e h i l l , t h ou g h , s ome t h i n g h app e n s . You s e e s ome t h i ng a l mo s t t o t a l ly o u t s i de o f y o u r ima g i n a t i on . Jus t imag i n e you are on t op o f t h i s h i l l and y ou s e e t h i s . ( Sh ow i n g s l i de . )

4 0

A l o t o f p e op l e h ave l au g h e d a t t h e F l a two o ds Mon s t e r an d t hey have s a i d t h a t i t w a s a h o ax , o r t h ey t h i nk i t wa s o n l y ima g i n a t i on . I t h ought t h e s ame t h i n g . S o I wen t t o F l atwo o d s , We s t V i r g in i a , t o i nt e rv i ew t h e s e p e op l e wh o h a d s e en i t . I t hought i t wa s a h o ax o r p ro b a b l y a f i gment o f t h e i ma g i n a t i o n . A l l o f t h e s e p eop l e a g re e d that t hey . h ad gon e t o t h e t op o f t h i s h i l l , h a d l o o k e d ove r down i n t o a rav i ne and had s e e n a s p h e r i c a l - s h ap e d ob j e c t wh i ch wa s g l ow i n g dim to b r i gh t , d i m to b r i g h t . One or two of the k i d s s a i d i t made a h i s s i n g s ound . O th e rs s a i d i t was mak i n g a thump , t hump , t h ump s oun d . Anyhow , wh i l e t h ey w e r e l oo k ing a t th i s t h i n g , t h ey d i d n o t n o t i c e s om� t h i n g t h a t was app ro ach i ng from t h e l e ft , t h i s h o r r o r wh �c h w e s � e h e re now . N e x t s l i de , p l e a s e .

I t w a s s o r t o f f l o at i n g t owa rds t h em , they s a i d , and t h i s , o f t o u r s e , f r i gh t e�e d t h em ·V��y

.g r e a t l y . They g o t o f f t h e h i l l

a s s o o n a s t hey c ou l d . They we re g iven f i r s t a i d by an ambu l an c � wh i ch was c a l l e d G

T h i s i s a p i c t � re · o f t h e w i t ne s s e s , l a d i e s and g e n t l emen . You w i l l s e e mo s t o f . t h em we re r a t h e r sma l l ch i l dren . On e adu l t and one b oy ab o u t 1 7 y e a r s o l d s aw i t . I ' don ' t know

. e x a c t l y wh at t h e y s aw , b u t I am c ohvi n c e d t h a t t h ey s aw s ome ­t h i n g an d t h a t t he y d e s � r i b e d i t v e ry much l i k e t h ey s aw i t . N e x t s l i de , p l e �� e .

·

Th i s i s t h e s ch o o l y a r d whe re t h ey f i r s t s aw i t . Ne x t s l i d e , p l e a s e . Th e n t h ey r an t o t h i s r a i l ro a d s t a t i on . Next s l i de , p l e as e . Th a t s t a r t e d my de ep in t e re s t into t h i s sub j e c t . I b e g an re s e arch i n g de epe r and t ry i n g t o · f i nd out wha t had o c cu r r e d p r ev i ou s l y .

F i r s t o f a l l , I wro t e an art i c l e f o r FATE Maga z i n e wh i ch r e c e i v e d w i de sp re ad pub l i c i ty ab out t he F l atwo o ds Mon s t e r , and t h i s go t · p e op l e wr i t in g to me from a l l ove r the wo r l d .

Of c o u r s e , t h e c l a s s i c s i ght i n g I f i r s t l e a rn e d ab out was Kenne t h Arno l d ' s f im ou s · s i g h t i n g i n 1 9 4 7 over Mount Ra i n i e r whe n h e h a d s e e n a cha 1 n o f s au c e r - l i ke t h i n g s g o o ve r , and when h e got out of th e · p � ane in the S t a t e o f Wa s h i n g t on , he announ c e d t h a t he h id s e en s ome th i n g l i k e d i s h e s s k imm i n g a c ro s s t h e s ky . T h e news p ap e r s ye l l e d , "A f l y i ng s auce r , "" an d t h a t ' s how a l l t h e p ub l i c i ty go t s t a r t e d r e a l ly and why the n ame .

·" f l y i n g s au c e

.r " was co i n e d .

I a l s o h e a r d an o t hir s t o ry , wh i ch h a s b e c ome a c l a s s i c now , o f C ap t a i n Man t e l l o v e r G o dman A i r F o r c e B a s e , F o r t Kno x , Ken t u c ky . P e op l e h a d rep o r ted s e e in g a ve ry l a r g e o b j e c t in the s ky ove r a v e ry - w i d e are a . I t l o o k e d l i k e an i c e - c r e am c o n e , t h e y s a i d , o n l y i t wa s f i e ry o n t op . Someone c a l l e d the A i r F o r c e B as e , and t h ey s t � r t e d l o o k in g fo r i t . I t was a v e ry o ve rc a s t day , bu t f i n a l l y the t owe r c au g h t s i gh t o f

4 1

t h i s ob j e c t ove r the b a s e . They knew that Cap t a i n Man t e l l w a s i n the a i r w i th two o t h e r p l ane s , a v e ry sm a l l s quadron t he re o f F 5 l s , so th ey r ad i o e d h im t o fly over the b a s e and t ry t o · make c o n t a c t w i t h wh a t e ve r wa s up t h e re . I f p o s s i b l e , h e m i gh t i dent i fy i t . H � d i d . Man t e l l was the o n l y o n e o f t h e t h r e e p i l o t s who d i d c a t ch s i ght o f t h e o b j e c t t h rough t h e c l ouds . Man t e l l rad i o e d b a ck t h a t he h a d s e en i t . He s a i d it l o oke d me t a l l i c and that i t wa s of a t remendous s i z e . He fu r t h e r s a i d th a t he was go i n g t o t ry t o app roach i t , t h a t i t wa s g a i n i n g a l t i t ude ve ry fa s t , an d th a t h e wou l d go u p t o about 5 , 0 0 0 fe e t a n d i f h e d i dn ' t c a t ch i t b y t h a t t ime h e wou l d ab andon c h a s e b e c au s e h e w a s n ' t c a r ry i n g oxygen .

S o t h ey wa i t e d f o r an o t h e r rad i o me s s age from Mant e l l a s h e revve d up t he p l ane and t r i e d t o app ro a ch th i s o b j e c t . Kenne t h Arno l d , who h a d s e en th e s e t h i n g s b e fo r e and whom we s e e h e r e in hone s t repre s ent a t i on , h a dn ' t t r i e d to make any c o n t a c t w i t h t h e ob j e c t s . They we re , o f cours e , g o i n g a t s uch a n i n c re d i b l e s p e e d , anyhow , h e wou l dn ' t have t r i e d ; b u t Man t e l l e v i den t l y . d i d , and t h a t was the l a s t me s s ag e t hey r e c e i v e d from C ap t a i n Man t e l l . Th e re are c on f l i c t i n g rep o r t s about e x ac t ly wh a t h ap p e n e� , b u t i t i s p re t ty we l l e s t ab l i s h e d t h a t h i s p l an e d i d e xp l o de i n m i d - a i r . Now , I am n o t s ay i n g t h a t a f l y i n g s au c e r s ho t down C ap t a in Man t e l l ; I am s ay in g th i s , howeve r : t h a t he i s t h e f i r s t p i l o t who me t h i s de a t h a s t h e r e s u l t o f c�a s i n g a UFO. . O t he r a i r l in e p i l o t s , such a s C ap t a i n Ch i l e s and C ap t a i n Wh i t t e d , a s we s aw he re j us t a moment a g o , have s � en t h e s e th i n gs . One o f t h e s e c am e o n a c o l l i s i on cour s e w i t h · t h i s Ame r i c an A i r l i n e s p l ane . The p i l o t t r i e d t o ave r t a c o l l i s i ori b y chan g i n g t h e cours e . ( Ju s t l e t t h e s l i de s g o , p l e a s e o ) H e b an k e d t he p l an e t o avo i d a co l l i ­s i on and s h o o k up s om e o f the p a s s en g e r s qu i t e b a d l y , but t h e t h i n g a l s o v e e r e d o f f o Th ey s aw w i ndows p a s s t h em . A ve ry b r i gh t ly l i ght e d , l on g , c i ga r - s h ap e d ob j e c t p a s s e d t hem .

One o f t h e v e ry in t e re s t i n g rep o r t s t h a t I a l s o ran acr o s s a ft e r my i nve s t i g a t i on o f t h e F l a two ods Mon s t e r wa s t h a t o f G e o rg e Adam s k i , who t o o k t h e s e p ho t o g raph s i n 1 9 5 2 o n a de s e r t i n C a l i fo rn i a . He had g o t t h e urge , h e s a i d , t o g o out the re for s ome re a s on . He t o o k s ome w i t n e s s e s wi t h h i m . He we n t out o n t h e de s e rt . He t o l d t h e w i t ne s s e s t o s t ay b e h in d , a n d h e wa l k e d out o n t o t h e de s e r t a n d h e l d a c onve rs a t i on w i t h a man whom they c ou l d s e e o n l y i n a d i s t ance . L a t e r on , Adam s k i s a i d t h a t t h i s man was from Venu s an d that h e h a d c o nve r s e d w i t h h i m i n s i gn l anguage . O f cours e , t h i s s t o ry h a s h a d a g r e a t de a l o f a r gume n t , but a t l e a s t s ome o f Adam s k i ' s p i c tu r e s do l o o k p r e t t y g o o d ; a n d I don ' t kn ow o f any p ro fe s s i on a l p ho t o g r aph e r who h a s b e e n ab l e t o p rove t h a t they w e r e fake s .

I b e g an r e c e i v i n g m a g a z i n e s - - I was p ub l i s h in g one o f my own - - from a l l ove r t h e wo r l d o Th i s i s one o f t h e pub l i ­c a t i on s t h a t c am e a l on g a l i t t l e l a t e r , t h e N I CAP p ap e r , an d

4 2

I l e a rn e d t h a t a ve ry f amou s p e r s on , n o t a b l y B a r ry G o l dwa t e r , s h own t h e re o n t h e s l i d e , b e l i ev e d i n f l y i n g s au c e r s . O f c ou r s e , l o t s o f p e op l e a l s o we r e t ak in g p ho t o g rap hs o f t h em .

A m an h a d g o n e out on t h e b e ach w i t h h i s b oy and h i s d o g , an d a l l o f a s udden t h ey s aw t h i s o b j e c t an d p h o t o graphe d i t . I th i nk o n o n e s i d e o f t h e s c re en you c an ' s e e t h e en l a!gement .

Th i s i s a p ho t o g r ap h f rom Ko r e a . Th i s was s e nt t o me by G o rdon A l l e n , who h a d wr i t t en a b o ok a b out f ly i � g s au c e rs . He t h i n k s t h a t t h i s pho t o g raph is r e a l , and i t is one of the mo re famous on e s .

As I p ro g re s s e d i n my r e s e a rch , p e op l e a l l ove r t h e wo r l d s e eme d t o g e t m o r e and mo r e in t e re s t e d i n the p henomen a . News ­p ap e r s s t ar t e d t o d e a l wi t h t h i s t h i n g a l i t t l e m o re s e r i o u s l y t han t h e y h a d b e fo re , a n d a C o a s t Guard p ho t o g rap h e r h a d a c tu a l l y s n ap p e d a p i c t ure o f s ome o f t h em wh i ch g ave a l i t t l e b i t m o r e p re s t i ge _ t o t h e sub j e c t . Th i s i s a p i c t ure h e m a de . The ob j e c t s don ' t s h ow

. up t o o e x c e l l en t ly , b u t he had a go o d

v i s u a l s i gh t i n g .

Th i s p h o t o g raph I don ' t kn ow the ex a c t gene s i s o f , but it do e s s h ow a p h o t o gr ap h of one of t h e s e o b j e c t s p a c in g a s h ip . Th e re i s p ro o f , l ad i e s and gent l emen , f rom a l l ove r t h e wo r l d .

Th i s p ho t o g rap h , inc i de n t a l l y , I t h i n k , i s a re f l e c t i on o f s ome s o rt , b u t t he re i s wh a t I c o n s i d e r go o d pho t o g rap h i c p r o o f from a l l ov e r t h e wo r l d t h at t h e s e t h i n g s d o e x i s t . I t h ink p ro b a b ly th a t a g r e a t p e r c e n t age o f t h em , e s p e c i a l ly t h o s e s e en a t n i g h t , m ay b e me t e o r s , we a t h e r b a l l o ons , mayb e even m i r a g e s o r o t h e r n a t u r a l p h enom en a . But t h e re i s a t l e a s t a sma l l p e r cen t ag e , a t l e a s t 5 p e r c e n t o f t he s e t h i n g s , wh i ch y o u j u s t c anno t e xp l a i n away by any s t re t ch o f the ima g i na t i on . The s e invo lve c l o s e - up s i ght i n g s o f a c t u a l h a r dware , t h i n g s w i t h p o r th o l e s i n t hem , ant ennae on t hem , l an d i n g g e a r , t h i n g s � h a t make b u rn e d p at ch e s on the g roun d , w i t ne s s e s t h a t you j us t c an ' t d i s c ount .

F o r ab o u t 2 0 y e ars I h ave b e en t ry in g t o f i gu r e out j us t wh at t h e s e t h i n g s are and whe re t h ey c ome from . I h ave n o t r e a c h e d any c on c l u s i on ye t. t hat I c an p ub l i sh , b e c au s e , f rank ly , I have Ro t c omp l e t e l y m a de up my own m i n d , an d I wan t t o wa i t t i l l o t h e r e v i d e n c e c o m e s i n .

One o f t h e m o s t p u z z l i n g a sp e c t s o f t h i s my s t e ry , howeve r , h a s n o t b e en t h e f l y i n g s au c e r s t h em s e l ve s , b u t wha t h a s h ap ­p en e d t o s om e p e op l e who h ave b e en i nvo l v e d w i t h them . The b e s t _ e x amp l e I know o f is a dear f r i en d of m in e n ame d A l b e rt B e n d e r of B r i d g ep o r t , C onne c t i cu t . S h o r t ly a f t e r I b e c ame i n t e re s t e d in 1 9 5 2 , I l e arne d t h a t he had a l ar g e o r g an i z a t i on

4 3

c a l l e d t h e I nt e rn a t i on a l F ly i ng Sauc e r C l ub � O f c ou r s e , I j o in e d i t immed i a t e ly , h e a r i n g t h e re was s ometh i � g l i k e t h a t .

Th i s i s J i m Mo s e l ey ' s c a t , i n c i den t a l l y , wh i ch p rove s t h a t even h i s c a t l i k e s t o r e a d S auce r News . ( L au gh t e r . ) The k i t ty , i n c i de n t a l l y , i s n o l on g e r w i t h h i m . I t s o r t o f ran away one d ay o We are a l l ve ry s o rry ab out t h a t .

Mr . B e n de r had a wonde r fu l c l ub g o i n g . I was nam e d on e o f t h e i nve s t i g a t o r s , and we t r acke d down s i gh t i n g s , ana l y z e d e v i d e n c e ; and I t h i n k w e a r e c om i n g up wi t h s ome p r e t ty go o d c on c l u s i on s . W e we re wo r k i n g o n t h e t h e o ry t h a t p e rh ap s t he s e t h i n g s m i gh t h ave a b a s e i n An t a rc t i c a . Some r e s e a rch h a d ind i c a t e d , c h ar t i n g t h e f l i gh t p a s s a g e s o f t he s e t h i n g s , t h a t m o s t o f t h em s e em e d t o b e c om i n g from o r go i ng in t h a t d i r e c t i o n .

And t h i s p h o t o g rap h , i nc i den t a l l y , i s one o f our l i gh t e r p ho t o g rap h s , b e c aus e t h i s s h ows t h a t s ome p e op l e d o even fake s ome of th i s ev i de nc e ; and I t h row th i s i n to s how t h a t i t c an b e done .

Th i s i s t h e m o s t my s t e r i ou s ph o t o grap h I h ave and one o f t h e few p h o t o g rap h s t h a t I am j u s t a l mo s t ab s o lu t e ly c e r t a in i s aut h en t i c .

Mr . B en de r , one day , h oweve r , b e gan a c t i n g ve ry s t ran g e ly o H e wro t e t o u s an d t o l d m e an d Au g i e Rob e rt s an d Dom Luc ch e s i and , I supp o s e , a few o t he r s t o s t op a c c ep t i n g memb e r s h i p s i n t h e I n t e rn a t i on a l F ly in g S au c e r Bure au o I h a d a s n e ak i n g s u s p i c i on t h a t t h e re was s ome t h i n g wrong , b u t I wa s n ' t qu i t e s u r e wh a t i t m i gh t b e . Dom and Au g i e h a d de c i d e d t o d r ive up t o B r i dgep o rt , C onne c t i cu t , t o f i n d out j u s t wh a t was wrong . T h ey s t art e d t o go up t h e re and h a d c a r t roub l e and t h ey d e c i d e d i t m i gh t b e b e t t e r i f they re t u r n e d h ome in s t e ad o f g o i ng on . B u t Au g i e put i n a p hone c a l l t o A l B e n de r and t a l ke d to h im in a s o rt of rou t i n e manne r o Then , a l l of a s u dden , B e n de r s a i d t o Aug i e : " I know t h e s e c re t o f t h e d i s c s . " O f c o u r s e , t h i s g re a t ly i n t r i gu e d Au g i e Rob e rt s , an d h e p re s s e d A l B e n d e r f o r m o r e i n f o rmat i o n .

A l B e n d e r t o l d Au g i e t h at h e d i d kn ow t h e s e c r e t o f t h i s t h in g , t h a t h e h ad an an swe r t o a l l o f t h i s . O f c our s e , Aug i e p re s s e d h im f o r wh a t i t was o A l f i na l l y adm i t t e d t h a t h e c ou l dn ' t t e l l h im . H e s a i d t h a t t h r e e men h a d c o m e t o s e e h im , t h r e e men d re s s e d i n b l ac k c l o t h i n g . He s a i d t h a t t hey h a d n o t o n l y c on f i rm e d s ome o f t h e i n fo rmat i on th a t h e knew , b u t t h a t t h e y h ad a l s o g iven h im s ome a dd i t i on a l i n fo rma t i on . Wh at t hey t o l d A l o r wh a t t h ey s a i d t h e re was s o f r i gh t en i ng that he s a i d h e d i dn ' t wan t t o even t a l k about f l y i n g s auce rs anymo re . He s a i d h e h a d b e en i l l f o r t h r e e day s , t h a t h e cou l dn ' t e at , an d t h a t h e w a s ve ry g re a t l y wo r r i e d . He d i dn ' t s ay e x a c t l y t h a t t h e s e p e op l e h a d t hr e a t ene d h im , but h e d i d s ay t h a t h e

4 4

wa s n ' t p e rm i t t e d t o g o a h e a d and s ay wh a t h a d re a l ly h app e ne d .

T h i s , t o me , w a s a ve ry i n t r i gu i ng t h i n g , a ve ry d i s q u i e t ­i n g t h i n g , b e c au s e h e re t h e re w a s e v i den t ly s ome b o dy t h a t w a s p r e v e n t i n g t h o s e o f u s i n r e s e ar ch f r om go i n g ah e ad and was p ro b ab l y p r even t i n g u s f rom mak i n g pub l i c wh a t we kn ow . We won d e r e d who i t was t h a t h a d s hu t up B en de r . lie c ou l dn ' t s ay wh o i t was . We won d e re d i f i t c ou l d b e s ome one from t h e G ov e rnmen t , a n d we s o rt o f t ende d t o d i s c ount t h a t . No o n e e l s e h a d b e en i n t e r f e r e d w i t h i n any way b y t h e G ove rnmen t , a l th ough I d i d r e c e ive a very mys t e r i o u s v i s i t f rom t h e F B I j u s t p re v i o u s t o Mr . B e n d e r ' s t roub l e s . We even went s o far o u t a s t o t h e o r i z e that p e rh ap s t h e re might b e s ome s p a c e p e op l e , t h a t th ey m i gh t b e r e a l a f t e r a l l , an d t h a t maybe s om e o f t h em we re h e re on E a r t h , t h a t m ayb e t h ey l o o k e d s ome t h i n g l i k e human b e i n g s ; an d , c e rt a i n l y , i f s om e o n e n o t o f t h i s E arth we re t o wa l k i n your d o o r and s i t down and t a l k w i t h y o u , I t h i nk you wou l d t ak e i t p r e t ty s e r i ous ly , and I t h i n k you wou l d b e p r e t ty we l l s h o o k up . But , n o t b e i � g ab l e t o know fo r s u re , we h a d t o go ahe a d and t h e o r i z e . We a l s o t r i e d t o t h e o r i z e as to wh a t i t was t h a t Be nde r p ro b ab ly h ad found o u t . Wha t it w a s , i n de e d , wa s c e r t a i n ly v e ry f r i gh t en in g , a c c o r d i n g t o wha t h e c ou l d t e l l u s .

We kn ew t h a t B e n d e r h a d b e en wo r k i n g o n s om e ma t e r i a l s en t t o ou r Bure au b y a m an i n L o n g I s l an d , b y a Mr . Hugh A . B rown , who i s an e l e c t r i c a l eng ine e r . He h ad done a g r e a t de a l o f re s e arch ab out t h e i c e c ap at t h e Sou t h Po l e , an d b a s e d on h i s f i gu re s , wh i ch we we re t ry i n g t o che c k o u t , t he i c e i s a c cumu l at i n g a t t h e South Po l e fa s t e r t h an i t i s me l t i ng , a c c o r d i n g t o h i s t h e o r i e s , an d I , o f c o u r s e , am n o t a p hy s i c i s t enough t o che c k t h em . I do hop e p e op l e a re che c k i n g them o u t . A c c o r d i n g t o h i s t h e o r i e s , t h e i ce c ap th a t i s bu i l d i n g up a t t h e S o u t h Po l e ev e n t u a l ly w i l l c au s e t h e E a r t h t o s o rt o f f l i p ove r and - s t ar t t u rn i n g d i f f e r e n t l y , and t h e P o l e s wi l l change to whe re t h e E q u a t o r i s n ow and , o f cour s e , wh a t is d own a t t h e E q u a t o r w i l l b e a t t h e Po l e s . I f t h i s we re t rue , i t c e rt a i n ly wou l d b e a v e ry s e r i ous t h i n g , an d i t i s ve ry doub t fu l t h a t v e ry m any p e op l e wou l d b e l i v i n g o n E arth a f t e r t h a t .

Mr . B rown went b ac k i n t o h i s t o ry . I t h ink he ha d r e a d s om e o f t h e wo rk s o f I mm anue l De l i ko v s ky , t o o , wh e re i t i s s h own t h a t i n S i b e r i a t hey found a mammoth wh i ch wa s de ep fro z en and wh i ch h a d n o t de c omp o s e d b e fo r e it w a s fro z en . We won d e r e d - - an d Mr . B r own d i d , t o o - - i f t h i s an im a l h a d d i e d a n a tu r a l de a t h , a s b e fo re i t c ou l d have b e en bu r i e d unde r t h i s t u n d r a , i t wou l d c e r t a i n ly h ave b e e n de c omp o s e d . Wi t h a s u dden f l ip o f t h e E a r t h , h oweve r , a n an ima l in a t rop i c a l c l imat e s u dden ly f i n d i n g i t s e l f whe re t h e Po l e s h a d b e en wou l d b e v e ry qu i ck l y fro z en , o f cours e ; and t h a t i s one re a s o n t h a t i t l o ok e d t o us a s i f Mr . B rown ' s t h e o ry m i gh t n o t b e a p r e t t y

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g o o d one , and - - a s we t hou gh t - - t h a t wou l d b e a t h i � g ' t h at wou l d s h ake Mr . B e n de r up , wou l dn ' t i t ?

Ano t h e r t h e o ry t h a t we t hough t Al m i gh t h ave found out ab out was one put f o r t h by D r . Me ade L ayne in Cal i fo rn i a . He f e l t t h a t t h e r e we re b e i n gs in f l y i n g s au c e r s but t hat t hey o c cup i e d a d i ffe r en t d imen s i on t h an we do , l e t u s s ay , t o s imp l i fy i t . I n o t h e t wo r d s , th ey we re a k i n d o f 4 - D , t h a t t hey wou l d mat e r i a l i z e i n t o t h i s d imen s i on a lmo s t any t ime t h e y wan t e d t o , c ou l d b e c om e ve ry s o l i d i n t h i s d im en s i on and we c ou l d s e e t h em and c ou l d p ho t o graph t h em when t hey d i d t h a t ; but whe n t h ey wan t e d to go b a ck i n t o t he i r c o ex i s ­t in g wo r l d , t h ey c ou l d s imp l y change t h e v ib r a t i on a l p a t t e rn o f t h e i r at oms and b e c om e q u i t e invi s i b l e t o u s . I f B e n de r h a d found ou t t h a t , th i s was r e a l ly t ru e , t h a t c ou l d h ave b e e n p re t ty s ha k i n g , t o o . Th e s e a r e s ome o f t h e t h i n g s w e we r e t a l k in g a b o u t .

Then one d ay Dom Luc che s i , who was c on s t an t l y c o rre s p on ­d i n g w i t h me and work i n g w i t h m e by t e l ep hone and by t ap e , c ame up w i t h a p r e t ty s h a t t e r i n g t hough t . He s a i d , ' ' G ray , wh a t wou l d you do i f one o f Ray P a lmer ' s de ro wou l d h ap p e n t o wa l k i n t o y o u r hous e ? ' ' We l l , o f cour s e , I h a d neve r t ak en th e de ro t o o s e r i ou s ly , b u t , o f c ou r s e , i f one re a l ly d i d t h a t , t ha t , i n de e d , wou l d b e mo s t f r i g h t en in g . The s t o ry o f t h e d e r o c am e t o Ray P a lm e r f rom a man n am e d Ri c h a r d S h ave r wh o wa s a we l de r i n P e nn s y l van i a . He h a d b e gun one day t o r e c e i v e s ome s o r t o f r ad i o commun i c a t i o n o r s om e s o rt o f c ommun i c a t i on t h rough a we l d i n g o u t f i t , and h e b e gan t o h e a r vo i c e s . Now , m ayb e l o t s o f p e op l e h e a r vo i c e s , b u t when h e wen t t o t h e o th e r we l d i n g mach i ne s , h e c ou l d n o t h e ar t h e vo i c e s ; i t w a s o n l y t h rough o n e t h a t h e h e ar d them . H e g en e r ­a l ly c o n c lude d t h a t h e was s an e . He b e gan overh e a r i n g c onve r ­s at i on s wh i ch w e r e q u i t e f i en d i s h . ·F rom l i s t e n i n g t o t h i s a l on g t im e , h e b e gan t o f in d o u t - - o r a t l e as t t h ought - - t h a t t h e y we r e com i n g from d e ep unde rn e at h t h e g round .

He t o l d Ray Pa lme r t h at t hou s an d s o f ye ars ago a s up e r ­c iv i l i z at i o n - - m ayb e s ome t h in g a c c o r d i n g t o t h e A t l an t e an s t h a t w e h ave h e a r d ab o u t - - l iv e d on t h e E ar t h . They we re a h i gh l y advan c e d r a c e o f p e op l e . They h a d a marve l ou s t e ch ­n o l o gy , an d t h ey n ev e r d i d g row ol d . They j us t kep t g row i n g b i g g e r and b i g ge r , and t h ey we re very b e au t i fu l p e op l e . Aft e r t ho u s and s o f y e a r s , h oweve r , t h ey found out t h a t t h e s un was b e g in n i n g to g iv e off r ad i o ac t iv i ty an d t h a t t he c h a ra c t e r of i t s r ad i a t i on s wa s c h an g in g . Th ey knew t ha t rad i a t i on is t h e r e a s on t h a t p e op l e do a g e . So t h ey de c i de d t o m o v e unde rg roun d . U s i n g t h e i r marve l ou s t e chno l o gy , t h ey bo re d hu ge c av e rn s unde rn e a t h t h e E a r t h o v e r ve ry w i de a r e a s . They l iv e d down t h e re f o r a g r e at wh i l e . They f i l t e re d out t h e rad i o ac t iv i ty f rom t h e wa t e r t h a t t h ey u s e d , b u t eventua l ly t h i s arrangem e n t d i dn ' t s e em t o b e wo r k ing o u t . So t h ey knew they

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wou l d have t o m i g r a t e t o ano t h e r s t a r s omewhe re , wh e re the re was a y o un g e r s un . So t h ey d i d .

O f c o u r s e , a t t h a t t ime t h e re we re p e op l e l i v i n g on t h e s u r f a c e wh o w e r e n o t t h e s e At l an t e an s , i f we m a y c a l l t h em t h a t , and a f t e r t h e s e advan c e d p e op l e l e ft , t h e y c rep t down i n t o t h e c av e rn s an d , a c c o r d i n g t o S h ave r , o c cup i e d t h e s e c av e rn s ; an d n o t o n l y t h a t , they b e g an t o u s e s ome o f the s e l i fe - s up p o r t i n g mach i n e s t h at t h i s advan c e d r a c e wa s u s i n g . We l l , w i t h o u t put t i n g t h e p rop e r f i l t e r s i n t o t he s e s y s t ems , a c c o r d i n g t o Shave r , even t u a l ly t h e s e rad i a t i ons woul d c au s e one t o de g e n e ra t e . And t h a t ' s e x a c t l y wh a t h ap p e n � d t o the s e p e op l e ove r a s e r i e s o f g en e r a t i on s . They c omp l e t e l y d e gene ­r a t e d p hy s i c a l ly . They e v i dent ly now a r e v e ry s m a l l , u g l y c r e a t ur e s . Me n t a l ly t h e y de g en e r a t e d , mo ra l ly , a n d in eve ry w ay .

P a lm e r s ay s t h a t t h e s e p e o p l e s t i l l c ome t o t h e s u rf a c e e v e ry n ow a n d t h e n . P a lm e r s a i d t h a t i n New Yo rk C i ty a l one , a b o u t 2 0 , 0 0 0 p e op l e my s t e r i ous ly d i s app e a r eve ry y e a r and t h a t t h e re is no t ra c e of a l a r ge p ar t of t h e s e . Shav e r t o l d P a l m e r t h a t , i n f a c t , un d e r New Y o r k C i ty i n p a r t i cu l a r wa s a ve ry l ar g e c ave rn s y s t em , and no t o n l y New Y o rk C i ty , b u t unde r a l o t o f t h e m a j o r c i t i e s . He thought t h a t t h e s e c re a t u r e s m i gh t have s ome c o nn e c t i on w i th t h e Und e rwo r l d t h a t we know o f in c r ime . Anyhow , i f A l Bende r h a d found t h i s o u t , t h i s , i n d e e d , wou l d h ave b e e n ve ry f r i gh t e n i n g a l s o .

We l l , we c ou l d n o t t e l l fo r s u re , b e c au s e B e n de r w a s n ' t t a l k in g . I b e g an t o fe e l p re t ty s haky . I w a s a f r a i d t h a t m ayb e I k n e w t o o much , t o o , an d I w a s a l i t t l e n e rvous fo r f e a r s om e o n e m i gh t c ome an d t ry t o s t op m e . I c e r t a in l y d i d n o t want t o s t op t ry i n g · t o f i nd o u t ab o u t f l y i n g s au c e r s , b e c au s e , t o me , t h i s w a s a v e ry f a s c i n a t i n g e n de avo r .

I h a d b e e n i n c ommun i c at i on w i t h a man i n Canada wh o , i n m y b o o k , I c a l l e d G o rdon Sm a l lwo o d . Th a t i s n o t h i s r e a l n ame . l ie h a d b e en s e n d i n g m e a g r e a t d e a l o f i n fo rma t i on . He wro t e m e and s a i d t h a t a f r i end o f h i s h ad b e en o u t o n a r i v e r wh e n h e s aw an un i d en t i f i e d d i r i g i b l e - s h ap e d o b j e c t c o m e ov e r . I t d i s c h a r g e d s om e t h i n g fro� i t . H i s f r i end p i c k e d t h i s up , an d i t wa s a m e t a l l i c re s i du e o f s ome s o r t . Sm a l lwo o d p rom i s e d t h a t h e w a s g o i ng t 6 have a n app o i n tmen t wi t h th i s fr i en d , who l iv e d a c on s i d e rab l e d i s t an c e away , and g e t me a s amp l e o f t h i s m a t e r i a l and t h a t b o t h o f us c o u l d h ave indep endent anal y s e s m a d e o f i t t o s e e i f b o t h c ame up w i t h t h e s ame th i n g .

We l l , t h e n e x t t h i n g t h a t h app e n e d w a s n o t h i n g . I d i dn ' t h e a r from h im f o r a gre a t wh i l e . F i n a l l y , I c a l l e d h i m up , even t hough i t wa s qu i t e a l on g d i s t an c e , and I a s k e d h im wh a t h a d h ap p e n e d . He s a i d a t f i r s t t h a t h e d i dn ' t want t o t a l k ab o u t i t . He re wa s an o t h e r man l i k e B e n de r , I t h o u gh t .

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Someb o dy h a d g o t t e n i n t ro ub l e . I knew t h a t B e n d e r h a d h a d a p i e c e o f me t a l t h a t t h ey h a d go t wh e n a n ob j e c t h a d fl own t h r ou gh a s i gnb o ard in Conn e c t i cut , and h e re was ano t h e r c a s e o f s om e b o dy ' s hav i n g . . a p i e ce o f me t a l . B u t t h e s t ran ge s t p art o f · th i s w a s t he even.t u a l · s t o ry that I dragged o u t o f t h i s p e ts on .

At f i rs t , h e had t h ou g h t th i s m an wa s a . gove rnme n t a g e n t . As I r e c a l l , I t h i ri k t h a t t h e man t o l d h im h e was from t h e Roy a l Can ad i an . A i r F o r� e o · L � t e r , whe n h e was p r e s s e d t o s how h i s c r e de n t i a l s , howev� r , . the man g o t ve ry n a s t y and a r gumen ­t at ·ive and wou l d� ' t �v en s h ow t h em . B e fo r e t h a t h app ene d , h oweve r , Sma l lwo o d h a d g i ven h im t h e p i e c e o f met al . He b e gan t o n o t i c e t h i s m an i n · a l i t t l e g re a t er de t a i l an d he b e gan t o n o t i c e s ome unu su a l t h i� g s ab Qut h im . H i s s k in was dark a s i f i t we re ve ry deep ly t anne d , a l t h o u gh i t s e em e d t o b e a l i t t l e de ep e r t a·n t � an y 9u· wou l d g. e t i n t h a t a re a , t h e k in d o f s un t an t h a t y o u .�ou l d h ave i f y o u l iv e d i n a t rop i c a l c l ima t e a l l t h e t .ime . · F o r s ome r e a s on , Sma l lwo o d fe l t t h a t t h i s t an was a l l · o'v e r . :t h e man ' s b o dy . H e fe l t t h a t i t was the c o l o r of h i s s k in . . . Aft e r the man l e ft t h e hou s e , he t ra i l e d t h i � f� 1 1 6� be c au s e h e was g e t t i n g mo re s u s p i c i ou s a l l t h e t ime . T h e m a:h w e n t it: t o a h o t e l l obby , and wh en Sma l l�o o d g o t t h e re h e h a d d i s app e a re d . He i nqu i r e d a l l ove r t h e ho t e l , wh i ch i s a v e ry �ma l l one � i f they h a d s e en t h i s g e n t l eman . No one �ad he a r d o f h im o r h a d s e en h im . An i nve s t i g a t i on was m�de o { t h e h o t e l , and n o t h i n g c ou l d be tu rne d up about h i m . ·

Ano t h e r t h i n g · t h a t was h app e n i n g was q u i t e far away , i n Aus t r a l i a . A Mr . Fu i t on , �wh o h a d b e en wo rk i n g w i t h B e nde r a b o u t t h e s ame t ime t h a t Bende r was h u s he d up , h a d s ome unu s u a l t h i n g s h app e n · �round h i s ho u s e . T h e re s e eme d to b e , a t i n t e rva l s , a ban g i n g . a round d i f f e r e n t p a rt s o f . t h e h ou s e , s om e t h i n g l i ke a p o l t e r g e i s t p henomenon e Mr . Fu l t on ' s c a t b e g an b eh av i n g ve !y � mys t e r i ou s ly . I t c ame and j ump e d up in the w i n dow as if i t ·wan t e d i n , and when Fu l t on op ene d t he d o o r , i t j ump e d iri th e do o r and r an unde r t h e b e d and wou l dn ' t c ome o u t f o r a c o n s i de rab l e t ime . Th e r e we re t e rr i b l e o d o r s a round t h e hou s e o f un exp l a in e d n a t ure . Al l t h e s e th i n g s b e g an t o fr i gh t en Fu l t 9n , e s p e t i a l ly whe n he foun d o u t wha t h a d h ap p ene d t o Mr . Bende r .

I c o u l d g o dn and on t e l l in g you o f o t h e r c a � e s o f p e op l e who h{:lve b e en d i s cc)u r q g e d .from f i n d i n g out t h e s e th i n g s . I h ave c e r t a i n ly h a d s ome d i s c o u r a geme n t , an d I have kep t go i n g ahe ad . F ran k ly , t o d ay �· a ft e r h e a r i n g o f Mr . E dward s ' · p a s s i n g , I h a d a b i g no t i on t o c a t ch a p l ane b a ck home and t o s t op my r e s e arch a l t o ge t he r . . B\l t .I am g o in g t o go on an d t ry t o he lp s o lve t h i s v e ry f a s c in a t i n g mys t e ry . A l o t . o f you , I am s u r e , whe n y o u t o l d s om e o ri � y du we r� c om i n g t o th i s c o nven t i on , we re d i s c ou r a ge d . A i o t ' o ( p e op l e t e l l me that t h e i r fr i en d s s a i d

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t o t hem , " Don ' t g o ove r th e re . You mus t b e c r a zy i f you do . " I am c e r t a in ly g l ad t h at you have c ome o u t an d t h a t you are i n t e re s t e d , and I hop e you wi l l not b e d i s coura g e d whe n s ome ­one r i d i c u l e s you a l i t t l e b i t whe n t hey know t h a t y o u are i n t e re s t e d b e c aus e 4 6 % of t h e p opu l a t i on now be l i eve t h a t t h e re i s s ome t h i n g t o a l l o f t h i s , a c c o r d i n g t o a G a l l up P o l l , an d 5 % o f t h e p e op l e in t h e Un i t e d S t at e s h ave a c t ua l l y s e e n t h e s e th i n g s . Tho s e are p re t ty b i g p e rc en t a g e s . Wh en I s t a r t e d , i t w a s c o n s i de re d a p re t ty c r a zy t h i n g o I t i s g e t t in g s an e r a l l t h e t ime , a n d p eop l e wh o u s e d t o l au gh a r e now l i s t en i n g . So I hop e t h a t y o u won ' t l e t anyone d i s c ou r a g e you i n your re s e a rc h .

I t h a s b e e n a g r e a t p l e a s ure t o s p e a k t o you t o n i gh t . I t h ank y o u ve ry much ! (App l aus e . )

MR . MOS E LEY : We th ank you ve ry much fo r t h a t roun d o f app l au s e . I wou l d l i ke t o i n t r o duce a c oup l e more p e op l e b e fo re we g o o n w i t h our n e x t s p e ak e r . I wou l d l i k e t o i n t ro ­duc e t h e m an wh o i s r e s p on s ib l e fo r a l l t h e s e wbn d e rful t h i n g s t h a t y o u s e e out t h e re , t h e s e exh ib i t s , wh i ch t o o k w e e k s o f wo rk t o f in d a n d p u t t o g e th e r , t o bu i l d an d b r in g ove r h e re , a man wh o h a s wo rk e d ve ry t i re l e s s l y f o r a l on g t ime fo r us w i t ho u t re s t and w i t hout p ay , b e c au s e it is m o s t ly vo lun t e e r w o r k t h a t w e a r e do i n g h e r e t o p u t t h i s t h i n g t o ge th e r . I f h e i s h e re , I wou l d l i k e t o i nt r o du c e h i m , Mr . G i s t Ta lm i s t , t h e Man a g e r o f Exh i b i t s . T a k e a b ow , p l e as e .

MR . G I ST TALM I ST : He re I am . (App l au s e . )

MR . MOS E LEY : I . wou l d a l s o l i k e t o i n t ro du c e t o the p e op l e who d i d n o t m e e t h im y e s t e r d ay wh e n I i nt r o duce d h im , one o f o u r f avo r i t e c o n t ac t e e s i n t h i s are a a round N e w Yo rk , a man who h a s b e e n on t h e Al l en Burke s how many t im e s and on nume rous rad i o s h ows , a ve ry f in e fe l l ow , a ve ry t a l l man in U FO l o gy , Mr . A l ex McNe i l l . I s h e h e re ? (M r . McNe i l l aro s e . ) (App l au s e . )

Our next sp e ak e r w i l l o n l y b e ab l e t o t ak e ab o u t 1 5 m i nut e s a t t h e mo s t , b e c aus e w e have our f i rs t i n t e rm i s s i on com i n g up s ho rt l y , b u t he h a s an awfu l ly l o t o f m a t er i a l f o r y o u , an d I am s a d t o h ave t o m a k e h im cut i t a l i t t l e . Th i s m an i s a ph i l o s oph e r . He h a s b e en a s tu de n t o f UFOs fo r a gre a t m any y e a r s . He i s one of t h e f i ne s t s p e a k e r s t h a t I h ave e v e r he a r d . He h a s s p o ke n t o our m on t h ly group ove r a t Ho t e l Wo o ds t o ck a c oup l e o f t ime s . I don ' t know o f anyone I h ave p e r s on a l l y e n j oye d h e a r i n g mo re t h an t h i s man . So I wou l d l i k e t o h ave y o u g i ve a wa rm we l c ome now to Mr . R i ch a r d B a s i l e . ( App l aus e . )

( R i ch a rd B a s i l e , a Pro t e s t an t m in i s t e r wh o i s curren t ly Pre s i de n t o f Dyn am i c L iv in g E n t e rp r i s e s an d Pub l i c a t i on s , an o r g an i z a t i on de d i c a t e d to h e a l t h o f b o dy , m i nd , an d s p i r i t . He h a s b e en an a r de n t UFO re s e arche r s i n c e 1 9 5 1 , a s we l l a s a s tu den t o f p sy c h i c p henomena , E S P , and t h e O c cu l t . )

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MR . R I CHARD BAS I L E : Some one h a s s a i d t h a t a b ad l e c t ure s h ou l d n o t be t o o l on g an d a go o d one s hou l dn ' t h ave t o b e . S o I w i l l c e rt a i n ly t ry t o c onden s e a s much a s p o s s i b l e , g e t r i d o f a l l t h e fr i l l s , an d s t i c k t o t h e t ex t a s c l o s e ly a s I p o s s i b ly c an .

I f e e l v e ry s t rong ly a b o u t UFOs and t h e imp l i c a t i on t o i n d i v i du a l s , t o r e l i g i on , t o wo r l d p o l i t i c s , t o t h e fu ture o f even t h e P l an e t E ar t h . I t h i n k t h e r e are m any v e ry v i t a l th i n g s w e h ave t o b e c o n c e rn e d w i t h and wh i ch we h ave t o wake up to the f a c t o f . I t h i nk t h a t UFOs and t he en i gma t h ey p re s en t t o u s g ive u s a marve l ou s opp o r tun i ty and even a g o o d e x cu s e t o o p e n o u r eye s a n d s ay s ome t h i n g i s h ap p en i n g i n t h i s w o r l d . An d i f we don ' t wake up and f i nd out and g o i n t h e r i gh t d i re c t i on , we a r e g o i n g t o b e i n t roub l e . (App l au s e . )

I t h i n k we l iv e iri t h e mo s t mome n t ou s t ime o f a l l h i s t o ry . I t h i n k t h e re a re man� c h an g e s t ak in g p l ac e i n p h i l o s op hy , re l i g i on , wo r l d p o l i t i c s , _ mo ra l s ; an d many ab e r ra t i on s a r e c o m i n g t o t he fo r e g round i n p e op l e ' s l i ve s a n d i n t h e i r p a r t i cu l ar b e l i e f s . The c om i n g o f t h e E x t r a t e rre s t r i a l s , i f i n de e d t h ey have c ome - - · an d I t h i n k t h ey h ave - - i f i t s h ou l d d o any t h i n g , i t i s t o l e t u s t ak e a go o d l o o k a t ours e lv e s a n d a s k why a r e t h ey h e re ? Wh a t i s i t w i th us t h a t i s a t t r a c ­t i n g t h em ? We never t h ought we h a d any t h i n g t o ob s e rve a b out our s e lve s , b u t I t h i n k we have s ome t h ing th a t is a t t ra c t i n g t h em .

I f y o u l o o k , y o u w i l l s e e t h a t we have b e e n v i s i t e d fo r many , m any c e n t u r i e s . You t ak e a g o o d l o ok a t t h e wo r l d , and as G o rdon Evans s a i d l a s t n i gh t , it s e em s that our evo l u t i o n h a s s om ewh e re g o n e a s t ray b e c au s e we h ave t h e t roub l e i n V i e t n am , we h a d t h e t roub l e b e fo r e t h a t i n Kore a , and we h ave t h e t roub l e n ow i n t h e M i d d l e E a s t . W e c on s t ant l y h ave wars and rumo r s o f w a r s . N ow , i f you wou l d b e i n t e re s t e d t o know wh a t s ome o f t h e g r e a t p h i l o s op h e r s and th inke r s and s t a t e sm en h ave s a i d about t h e d ay i n wh i ch w e l i ve , I wou l d l i k e t o r e a d s ome o f t h e s e quo t e s t o y o u t on i gh t . They g ive u s a c l ue t o why t h e Ex t r a t e r re s t r i a l s m i gh t b e h e r e and wh a t t h e i r purp o s e i s .

Church i l l , s ome t ime b e fo r e h i s d e a t h , b e fo re a hu s h e d Ho u s e o f C ommon s , made t h i s s t a t ement , " The s tupen dous p e r i l s o f t h e H - b o mb Age f i l l my m i nd out o f a l l c omp a r i s on w i t h any t h i n g e l s e . "

Dr . Vo gt , o n e o f ' t h e d i re c t o r s o f t h e Off i c e o f I n t e r ­Ame r i c an Ac t iv i ty , s a i d , "The h andwr i t in g o n t h e wa l l o f f ive c on t i n e n t s n ow t e l l s u s that t h e day of j ud gment is a t h an d . "

Rad i o Announc e r R i p l ey , i n H i r o s h i ma , J ap an , a ft e r t h e S e c on d Wo r l d War , s a i d , " I a m s t an d i n g on t h e sp o t wh e r e t h e e n d o f t h e wo r l d b e g an . "

;, ...

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Dr . Urey , an ab l e s c i ent i s t , s a i d , " I am a f r i gh t ene d man . A l l s c i en t i s t s I know a r e f r i gh t en e d men . Many s c i en t i s t s h ave s t a t e d , as one c omm en t a t o r h a s s a i d , t h ey h ave a s s u re d us t h a t Armage ddon and Do oms d ay a r e now s u s p en de d o v e r t h e h e ads o f our gene r a t i on . "

Fo s d i c k , P r e s i de n t o f Ro c k e fe l l e r F oundat i on , de c l a r e d : "We h ave n ow b e en b rought t o t h e d o o r s t ep o f d o om . The hour is g row i n g l at e . "

And Evo lu t i o n i s t H . G . We l l s , wh o t hought t h e wo r l d wa s g e t t i n g b e t t e r , s udden ly ch ang e d h i s v i ews and made t h i s s t a r t ­l in g s t a t emen t , " Th i s wo r l d i s a t t h e e n d o f i t s t e t he r . The end of eve ry t h in g we c a l l l i f e is c l o s e a t h and an d c ann o t be e v a de d . Th e r e is no way o u t or a round or t hr o u gh t he imp a s s e . I t i s t h e e nd . "

Now , my f r i en d s , t on i g h t we a r e n o t h e r e l i s t en i n g t o t h e wo r d s o f re l i g i ou s fanat i c s o r o t h e r z e a l ous evang e l i s t s and p re ac h e r s , bu t men o f s c i ence and men o f l e a rn in g an d men o f s t an d i n g i n our g en e r a t i on who are a f r a i d , and I won d e r i f t h e s i t u a t i on i n wh i c h w e l ive i s n o t a p ro b l em t h a t t h e Ex t ra t e rre s t r i a l s h ave a l re a dy b e en t h r ou gh , a ro a d t h a t t h e y h ave p e rh ap s a l re a dy wa l k ed i n t h ems e lve s ; an d I b e l i e ve th a t h i s t o ry m ay n o t o n l y rep e at i t s e l f h e r e o n e a r t h but m ay h ave rep e a t e d i t s e l f t h roughout a l l the un i v e r s e . I t is a g r e a t p o s s i b i l i ty t h a t t h e P an d o r a ' s B o x o f w a r s a n d rumo r s o f war s t h a t w e h a ve s u f f e r e d f r o m s o much and f e a r s o m u c h h ave b e en c onqu e r e d on o t h e r p l an e t s by o t he r b e in g s , t h a t t h e y know t h e e n d o f t he de a t h s t ru g g l e t h a t we a r e e n g ag e d i n , t hey know wh a t w i l l h app e n to us if we don ' t c h an g e our way s and s t r a i gh t e n ou t our t h i n k i n g . I t i s a lmo s t a s i f a f a t h e r i s i n s t ru c t i n g a c h i l d , a f a t h e r know i n g whe re t h e ch i l d w i l l e n d up i f i t c o n t i nu e s a c e rt a i n c ou r s e o f a c t i on . He t r i e d t o h e l p h im an d g u i d e h im . And i t c ou l d b e t h a t t h ey are t ry i n g to gu i d e u s t h ro u g h the l aby r i n t h of d e s t ru c t i on , t h a t we m ay no t b e de s t roye d .

S ome t im e s we g e t t h e fe e l i n g t h a t t h e y a r e t ry in g t o s how us t h at t h e e s s en t i a l s of p e ac e and p ro s p e r i ty h ave b e en m i s s e d , t h a t we t hou g h t we we re go i n g t o f i n d i t in te chno l o gy a n d g r e a t s c i en t i f i c deve l opment an d new p h i l o s op h i e s and new mo r a l i ty an d a l l k in d s o f n ew " i sm s " ; b u t I t h i n k that if y o u a s k t h e q u e s t i on , h ow h ave t h ey s urv i v e d l on g enough t o g a in t h e t e c hn o l o gy t hey h ave t o g e t t h em h e re and t o n o t b e a f r a i d o f any t h i n g t h a t w e h ave b y w a y o f m i l i t ary p owe r , t h a t t h ey mu s t h ave g a i n e d s ome s e c r e t t h a t e n ab l e d t hem to c o n t ro l t h e p owe r t hey h ave g o t , a s e c re t t h a t p e rh ap s w e h ave no t l e a rn e d . Bu t i f we l i s t en , we may g a i n t h e t ru t h f rom t h em .

I t h i n k y o u w i l l d i s c o v e r t ha t t h ey h ave some h ow deve l op e d a mo r a l in t e g r i ty , a s t re n g t h o f c h a r ac t e r whe reby t h ey cou l d

. r

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c on t ro l t h e a t om i n n a t �r e i n s t e ad o f i t s c on t ro l l i n g them and eventua l ly de s t roy i n g th em as it p ro b ab l y w i l l do to u s . I t h ink i t i s t i me we j us t s t opp e d wo r ry i n g about re l i g i ous c on t rove r s i e s and s ay i n g , " I don ' t b e l i e ve in t h i s church and I do b e l i eve i n t h a t chu rch ; an d h e is r i gh t and h e is wrong , " and j us t b o i l i t a l l down t o one t h i n g . We h ave g o t t o l e a rn t o h ave f a i th in G o d a s i t app e a rs t h ey h ave done . (App l au s e . )

I t s hou l d s e em ve ry e v i d e n t t h a t th e mora l i ty t h a t we n e e d t o c on t ro l t h e p owe r we h ave i s m i s s i n g . Obv i ous ly , w i t h o u t i t , we a re do om e d · t o f a i lure . Th i s i s why t h e s e gre a t men a r e s o a f ra i d . Th i s i s why , I t h ink , Ext rat e rr e s t r i a l s a r e t ry i n g t o s h ow u s t h a t we n e e d t o b e g in t o obey t h e l aws o f G o d p hy s i c a l ly , sp i r i t ua l ly , a n d ment a l l y , o r we a re he ade d fo r t h e s ame d e s t ruc t i on t hey . have p e rh ap s s e e n a t a p l ac e on o th e r p l an e t s . You know , we c ou l d b e t h e l a s t p l an e t t o c ome a round in t h e e n t i re un i v e r s e .

Whe n P au l t h e Ap o s t l e s a i d , "Al l c re a t i on g r o an s and t rava i l s in p a i n wa i t i n g fo r the man i fe s t at i on of the Son o f G o d , " h e m i gh t h ave b e e n c on s i de r i n g t h e E a r t h . Everyb o dy i n t h e un i v e r s e i s wa i t i n g . fo r u s t o ge t s t ra i gh t ene d out . May b e we a r e t h e l a s t n ame t o b e a d de d t o t h e an c i en t l i s t o f G o d ­f e a r i n g wo r l d s t h a t o b ey t h e d i v i n e l aws an d p ro f i t from them .

I won d e r wha t our r e a c t i on i s t o a l l o f t h i s he lp t h a t i s b e i n g o f fe re d t o u s . . W i l l wo r l d l e ade r s l i s t en ? Wi l l we l i s t en ? I f a man w e r e t o . s ay t o you : "Now , l o o k , you are t rave l i n g a c e rt a i n ro�t e , i � a c e r t a i n d i r e c t i on . Two m i l e s h e n c e , t h e r e i s a b r i dg e wa s h e d out . I f you k e ep d r i v i n g , you a r e go i n g t o go r i gh t ove r t h e b r ink down i n t o t h e wa t e r and b e k i l l e d . " I f you k e ep g o i n g and c h o o s e n o t t o t ake t h e adv i c e o f s ome one w h o knows , w h o a r e you k i d d i n g ? Who i s g o i n g t o b e hur t , h im o r you ? You wi l l b e , o b v i ous ly Q I f we don ' t l i s t en an d a c cep t h e l p wh en i t c om e s to us , wh o i s g o i n g t o b e hurt ? Wi l l t hey? No o W e a re t h e one s wh o a re u l t im a t e ­ly g o i n g t o s u f fe r . We h av e a p rob l em . We have he lp . We are p o i n t e d i n th e d i re c t i on of G o d , I t h i n k . We ought to g o t h a t way .

I wou l d l i k e t o men t i on a s a s o rt o f p arent h e s i s o f t h i s t h ou gh t b e fo re I g e t in t o wh a t I th i n k i s g o in g t o b e t h e c on c l u s i o n o f t h e U F O p h enomen a . S ome o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t h i n de r our p ro f i t in g · from t h e a dv i c e t h a t h a s b e en g iven t o c on t a c t e e s , f i r s t · o f a l l , a r e t h e s kep t i c s who s e em t o deny e v e ry t h i n g , s co ff a t any t h i n g , and r i d i cu l e e v e ryb o dy ; and t h e i r ch a nc e o f ho ax an d i l l u s i on an d fo l de ro l b e c ome s mo re l ud i c ro u s than the p u z z l in g UFO en i gma i t s e l f . I t h i nk s ome of t h e s e s k ep t i c s , i f · a UFO wou l d l and in t h e i r b ac ky a r d an d a s p a c eman g o t out and o f fere d h i s h an d i n f r i e n d s h ip , wou l d p ro b ab l y run l i ke t h e Devi l , qu i t smo k in g , q� i t dr ink ing , and run to a p sy ch i a t r i s t an d p ay h im a fat fee to a l l ow t h em t o

5 2

l i e on h i s c ou c h and t e l l h im a l l ab o u t i t . I t h i n k p e op l e l i ke t h at - - E a r t h l i n g s l i k e t h a t - - a r e go i n g t o i n s p i re a b e s t - s e l l i n g nov e l on t h e Pl ane t Venus en t i t l e d , " I s t h e re I n t e l l i ge n t L i f e on E a rt h ? " ( App l aus e e ) Some t i me s we wonde r .

Ano th e r t h i n g t h a t h i nde r s our p ro f i t i n g i s t h e p s eudo ­s au c e r s c i en t i s t s , t he ch ap s w i th t h e f i n e s t ima g in a t i on ab out g e t t i ng m e s s a g e s from sp a c e , and i t s e em s t h a t t h e c l o ak of th e i r re s p e c t ab i l i t y i s a c e r t a i n th i n g I w i l l n am e a t t he e n d o f t h e s e s s i on . The i r c l o ak o f r e sp e c t ab i l i ty i s h i d i n g a d i r ty unde r s h i r t uride r t h a t unb e l i evab l e im a g i n a t i on , and t h a t c l o ak i s E S P . Th a t i s the excus e they g i ve . Now , I b e l i eve E S P i s O . K � I b e l i eve t h e r e i s a p l ace fo r i t , b u t a l l t h a t g l i t t e r s in t h e m i n d i s n o t wh a t i s t o l d b y s p a c e p e op l e .

An o t h e r t h i n g t h a t p reven t s our p r o f i t i n g : The _ gu l l ib l e b e l i eve any t h i n g , any i n t r i gu i n g t yp e o f ment a l i ty . I f you s ay y o u a r e f r om Venu s , y o u w i l l imme d i a t e ly g e t a fo l l ow i n g . They w i l l f o l l ow y o u t o eve ry d o o rs t ep and s t r e e t c o rne r . They w i l l p r o c l a im you f rom t h e h ou s e t op s and even a dd t o your v i r tu e and m a k e y o u m o r e imp o r t an t t h an wha t y o u r e a l l y a r e . S ome w i l l b e l i ev e any t h ing . · An o u t s i d e r l o o k s i n on a UFO re s e ar c h and h e s e e s a s t r ange h o t h o u s e of a l l k in d s of we i rd - l o o k in g p l an t s t h a t h ave a t en dency t o o b s cure t h e v i ew o f t h e Ro s e o f Tru t h and e v e n m a k e i t s s c e n t obn o x i o u s .

S ome t ime s , whe n t h e r e i s d ar kn e s s and c o n fu s i on an d i gn o r an c e a b o u t a t op i c , t h e t i n i e s t l i t t l e l i g h t , n o m a t t e r h o� d im i t m i gh t b e , w i l l s h i n e v e ry b r i gh t b e c au s e i t i s s o d a rk . But a s UFO r e s e arch b e g i n s unfo l d ing mo re and more t ru t h an d w e l e arn mo re a n d m o r e an d t h e s un o f t ru t h r i s e s ove r t h e UF O f i e l d , we a r e go i n g t o f i n d t h e s e l e s s e r l i ght s b e com i n g o b s cure d and fad i n g o ff i n t o n o t h i n g . S o we h av e t o keep on t h e road of t ru t h and no t get d i s c o u r a g e d by a l l t h e ko o ks and a l l the p ro b l em s an d a l l the r i d i cu l ou s t h i n g s that a re so d i ff i cu l t to de a l w i th .

An o t h e r p rob l em h i nd e r i n g our p ro f i t i n g i s t h e d i s t o r t i on o f ev i d en c e by f au l ty e a r t h ly i n t e rp re t at i on s o f r e a l i ty . F o r e x amp l e : M o t h Man ! How r i d i cu l ou s ! B u t i t i s n o t r i d i cu l o u s i f y o u s e e a humano i d w i th a· sp ace c on t r ap t i on o r c on t r i v ance t h a t a l l ows h im t o f l y ; o r a m o n s t e r . Th i s i s l i k e Buc k R o g e r s , t o t a l k ab out m o n s t e r s , but h ow ab o u t a g i an t i n a sp a c e su i t , o r l i t t l e g r e e n men ? Wha t a b o u t b e a t n i k hum an o i ds in gre e n s u i t s ? Th e s e c ond cho i c e i s m o re s c i en t i f i c and more und e r ­s t an d ab l e . We l l , t h e f i r s t j us t a d d s fue l t o t he a f t e r -b u rn in g o f th e s k ep t i c s .

Now , I won d e r i f we c an re a l l y t ru s t th e p h i l o s op hy o f t h e s p a cemen . Th i s d e p e nd s up on whe t he r y o u we re t o l d i t b y s p a c e ­men o r t o l d i t by y ou r imag i n a t i on , o r a re j us t b e l i e v i n g wh a t

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y ou wan t t o b e l i eve . . · I b e l ieve t h e r e a r e go o d sp a c emen an d I b e l i eve t h e r e a r e ev i l s p ac emen . J e s u s s a i d in t h e B i b l e , " Th e r e a r e o t h e r s h e ep t h a t a r e n o t o f th i s fo l d , " and I t h i n k t h e re a r e mariy· : � i bl e re f e renc e s t o t h i s f a c t . I b e l i eve t h e re a re e v i l s p a� emen , S a t an ' s count e rp ar t s : Be n de r my s t e r i e s - - t h r e e men i n b l a c k - - mys t e r i o u s de a t h - - sm e l l s o f s u l p hu r - - a s t ra l ��e j e ct i o n s - - me d i ums c on t a � t i � g s p a c e ­m e n i n s up e rn at u r a l , and a l l t h e re s t .

I t h i nk t h e b e s t � h i l o s ophy t o t ru s t i s t h e ph i l o s ophy o f t h e B i b l e , b u t ! - t h i n k a l l o f t h i s i s h e a d i n g up t o one g r and c o n c l u s i on , t h e · o l d fi ght b e twe e n go o d and ev i l . And I b e l i eve t h a t t h e t el ev is i on · s how o f " Th e Invade r s " i s a g r e a t p o s s i b i l i ty . I · th i nk ·t h e re may b e wh a t we c an t e rm a "Tak e ­o v e r n p l o t . We ha:v� h �'a rd o f . . a " P a s s ove r " p l o t . Wha t about a " t ak e - ove r " p l o t ' whe te men· from sp a c e come down and h ave s e c re t b a s e s o n E a i t h ?·� They. c ap ture E a �t hmen , t hey p r ime t h e m � they hyp no t i z e . . t ��m · t o go . out an d t e l l E a r t hmen wh a t t h ey wan ·t t h em t o b e1 fe.ve and t h e re by p rep a re t h e wo r l d t o a c c ep t a m an wh o p to� i s � S : p e ac e and p ro s p e r i ty t o a l l the wo r ld and t o s o l ve.<. a l i< t he i r p ro b l ems ? No s t ra damus sp o k e o f h im . J e an e D ix o n �p o �$ o f h im . The B ib l e sp e ak s o f h im and c a 1 1 s h im t h e an t i chr i s t - :.. t h e f a 1 s e me s s i ah - _. w h 0 w i 1 1 n 0 t o n l y d e c e iv e p e op l a. but · wi l l even t u a l l y b e de s t roy e d by t h e c om i n g o f t h e t rue .Me s s i ah , t h e g re a t e s t even t o f a l l the a g e s .

I t h ink a l l t h e.s e . · s i gn s o f t h e t ime s and t h e UFOs an d t h e f a l s e re 1 i g i on s ·anq a l l t h e o t h e r my s t e r i ou s t h i n g s t h a t a r e o c cu r r in g in our dC:y <a re · l e ad i n g u p t o t h a t g r e a t day . I f i rm l y b e l i eve t h a t · {� �y own he a r t . I wou l d do y o u an i n j u s ­t i c e n o t t o s ay wha t I f e e l t o b e t rue , t h a t J e s u s Chr i s t , t h e S o n o f G o d i s c om in g � ac k a g a in .

F ROM THE F L OO R.: . Amen ! Ame n ! ( App l aus e . ) Amen ! H a l l e lu j ah !

MR . BAS I LE : ( Co ri t inu in g ) Whe n B i l ly G rah am p re a che d t h a t , I b e l i eve he me ant i t . (App l au s e ) An d J e s u s i s go i n g t o de s t roy a l l f a l � eh o o d and a l l ev i l . H e i s go i n g t o de s t roy the an t i c hr i s t , and t h e . imp o r t ant t h i n g we have to cons i de r t on i gh t i s t h e ans�e r t o t h i s que s t i on : Wh e re w i l l we b e s p i r it ua l ly , wh e re wi l l w � b e w i th o u r f a i th i n G o d whe n He c ome s b ac k a g a i n to s ipa r�t e the s h e ep f rom the g o at s ? The s h e ep a r e t h e t ru e b e l i ev e r s , and t h e g o a t s are the unb e l i eve rs and the d e c e i v e rs who l i ke to l e a d e v e ryb o dy a s t r ay .

A b � t t e r wo r l d · s t a r t s n o t w i t h s omeb o dy e l s e , n o t wi t h s omeb o dy d o i n g i t fo.r y ou ; b u t a b e t t e r wo r l d , a s even t h e s p a c emen have b e e n c l a im e d · t o s ay , s t ar t s w i t h y o u and your fa i th i n G o d . I t h ank·. you . ( App l au s e � )

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MR o MO S E L E Y : We w i l l t ak e a 2 0 - m i nut e i nt e rm i s s i o n . We w i l l h ave th r e e mo r e s p e ak e r s in our s e c o nd h a l f . T h ank y o u .

( I n t e rm i s s i o n . )

MR . M O S E L E Y : We h ave t h r e e mo r e s p e a k e r s , t h e l a s t o f whom w i l l b e R o y T h i nne s , wh o wa s a l s o h e r e t h i s a f t e rn o o n . He w i l l b e h e r e a g a i n t omo r r ow .

We h ave w i t h us t h e Manag i n g E d i t o r o f S auc e r News , M r . T i mo thy G r e e n B e ck l e y . W i l l y ou t ur n an d fa c e t h e c r owd and s ay " He l l o " ?

MR . T I MOTHY GRE E N B E C KLEY : H e l l o ! (App l a us e . )

M R . MO S E LEY : L on g J o hn N e b e l w i l l b e he re t o mo r row t o i n t r o d u c e Howa r d M e ng e r , who may b e h e re l a t e r t o n i g h t , b u t h e w i l l no t s p e a k t on i gh t . H e w i l l s p e ak t omo r r ow a f t e rno on a l o n g w i t h L o ng J o hn N e b e l , I van Sand e r s o n , Ro y T h i nne s , and one n ew c o n t a c t e e , a very s urp r i s e gue s t who Long J o hn i s b r i n g i n g w i th h im . T h i s i s a c o n t a c t e e who h a s n e ve r b e e n h e a rd b e fo r e e x c ep t on o n e rad i o p r o g ram .

I f w e c an h ave s o me q u i e t , I w i l l i n t r o du c e o u r f i r s t s p e ak e r f o r th i s p or t i o n o f t h e p ro g ram . P ar i s F l ammo nde i s a w r i t e r whom I have known for s e ve r a l y e a r s . H e h a s wr i t t e n s e ve r a l a r t i c l e s o n U FO s fo r na t i o n a l mag a z i n e s . He i s r e c o g ­n i z e d a s a U F O e xp e r t , and h e i s f o r me r l y t h e pr o duce r o f t h e L o n g J ohn N e b e l r a d i o s ho w when h e us e d t o b e o n WOR , n ow o n WNBC , a s mo s t o f yo u know . He i s an a l l - a ro und man , a f i ne w r i t e r , p r o duc e r , a n d d i r e c t o r . I g i ve you P a r i s F l ammo nde o (App l au s e . )

M R . PARI S F LAMMON DE : Un l i k e the ma j o r i ty o f the p e o p l e you h ave h e a rd and w i l l h e a r t o n i gh t and t omo r r ow , I a m n o t h e r e t o c o nv i n c e y o u o f any th i n g , b u t t o ma ke o n e or two s ug ­g e s t i o n s . T h e mo de r n a g e o f f l y i n g s a uc e r s , a s v i r t ua l ly e ve r y o n e kno w s - - o r mayb e you d o n ' t know - - c u l m i n a t e d ve ry r e c e n t l y . But I w i l l g e t t o tha t in a mo men t s I t b e g an - -a nd y o u d o kn ow t h i s - - w i th K e nn e t h Arno l d a s co re o f ye a r s a g o , a n d t h a t w a s a c u r i ou s t ime fo r p e op l e t o b e c ome e x c i t e d a b ou t f l y i ng s auc e r s . T h a t , i n i t s e l f , i s n o t p a r t i c u l ar l y fa s c i n a t i n g . I t c o u l d h a ve b e g un 1 7 y e ar s a g o , o r 1 6 y e a r s a g o , a n d t h e s ame s ub s e qu e n t e ve n t s p r ob ab l y wou l d h a v e t a k e n p l a c e . But t h e da t e i s i mp o r t an t , b e c aus e p e op l e b e c ame e n t ra n c e d by t h e c o n c ep t o f s ome t h i n g in t h e s k i e s , v i s i t o r s t o t h i s p l ane t w h o wou l d d o fo r u s wh a t w e c o u l d no t d o f o r o u r s e l ve s ; name l y , t e a c h u s t o b e come c i v i l i z e d a t a t i me wh e n we we r e c o n c l ud i ng t h e s e co n d ho r re n dous Wo r l d War , at a t i me wh e n t h e " G r e a t F a t h e r " i ma g e s we r e fa l l i ng , a t a t ime whe n the g re a t p owe r s o f t h e wo r ld we r e fa l l i ng , b o t h g o o d a nd e v i l we r e fa l l i n g . R o o s eve l t wa s g o n e , H i t l e r w a s g o n e , C h u r c h i l l wa s de p o s e d . A l l t h e " Gr e a t F a t h e r " i ma g e s we re g one .

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A l l t h e g r e a t l e a de r s we r e g o n e o But mo r e th an any o f t h e s e th i n g s , p r e v i o u s l y t h e r e h a d a lways b e e n s o mewhe r e t o h i de wh e n th i n g s _ g o t b a d un t i l t h e y g o t b e t t e r : a c ave , a c hur c h , a f o r e s t , an i s l and , s o mewh e r e o r o t he r o But n ow , the ag e o f t h e b o mb , and th e r e w a s n owh e r e l e f t t o h i d e o

And t h e re s u l t o f th i s wa s - - no t d i r e c t l y , b u t i t i s i n t e re s t ing t o s e e t h e c o r re l a t i o n - - t h a t mayb e f l y i n g s auc e r s app e a r e d an d , i n t h e p h ra s e o f s ome o f the ph i l o s o p h e r s , " G o d d i e d o " And t h e que s t i o n i s : D i d h e r e appe ar i n the fo rm - - a n d I d o n ' t me an , o f c o u r s e , l i t e ra l l y the phys i c a l f o r m , b u t i n s o me s p i r i t u a l s e ns e - - o f v i s i t o r s from o u t e r s p a c e ? D i d t h i s o c c u r a t the e nd o f wh a t we h op e d w a s the end o f t h e s e w a r s , t he fa l l o f t h e s e g re a t - fa t h e r i ma g e s , the s e g r e a t m e n o f t ow e r i ng s t a t ur e , and t h e in cep t i o n o f the mo s t h o rr i b l e d e v i c e e v e r c onc e i ve d a n d c r e a t e d b y t h e m i nd o f man , and the n e e d , t h e t e r r i b l e ne e d - - and I w i l l g o b a c k to t h e b e g inn ing of my r e ma rk s - - for s o me b od y t o do fo r us wh a t we c o u l d n o t do fo r o u r s e l ve s , t o t e a ch u s t o b e c i v i l i z e d e Mo s t o f the s p e ak e r s h ave answe r s . I d on ' t know . A s I s a i d when I came up , I h ave j us t s ug g e s t i o n s G And I s ug g e s t t h a t you dw e l l up o n t h a t .

And t h e s e c o n d o f my t h r e e s ug g e s t i o n s i s t h a t the i nve s t i ga t i o n of the p h e n o me n a s c a t t e r ing our s k i e s and/ o r our minds be made w i th r e a s o n , not w i th ang e r - - w i th r e a s o n , r a t i o n ­a l p e r s p e c t i ve . And t o t h a t e n d I mak e wh a t may i n i t i a l l y app e ar t o b e a m i n o r r e c o mme n d a t i o n , b u t I s e e i n i t c o n s i d e rab l e i mp o r t anc e ; a n d t h a t i s t h a t o n c e and for a l l w e b e g i n t o r e fe r t o t h e s e o b j e c t s o r t h i s p h enomenon a s wh a t e ve r i t a c tua l l y i s . By t h a t I me an , i n t e rch an g e a b l y th e p h r a s e s " un i d e n t i f i e d f l y i n g o b j e c t s " a n d " f l y in g s auc e rs , " a r e u s e d , b u t o b v i o us l y , t h e y n o t o n ly d o no t me an t h e s ame t h i n g , b u t " un i de n t i f i e d f l y i n g o b j e c t s " w a s a n e x t re me l y p o o r ch o i c e b y C ap t a i n R up p e l t o r i g i ­na l l y t o c re a t e a p h ra s e th a t wou l d s i ng l e o u t s o me o f t h e s i gh t i n g s . th a t s e eme d t o de s e rve s e r i o us inve s t i ga t i o n f r om o th e r s that s e e m e d to be ou t r i gh t h o axe s . The c h o i c e " U FO " wa s f o r un i d e nt i f i e d " f l y i n g " o b j e c t s o We w i l l g o a l o n g w i th the i d e a that that was wh a t h e . o b v i o u s l y me ant t o s ay and wh a t they n e e de d t o have e xp re s s e d . Ob v i o u s l y , " f l y i n g " d i d n o t wo r k ou t s o we l l , b e c aus e s ome w e r e n o t fl y i ng . Some we r e h ove r i n g and s o me w e r e s i gh t e d on t h e g round . So the t e rm i mme d i a t e l y w a s o n l y h a l f c o rr e c t Q

N ow , " o b j e c t " a u t o ma t i c a l l y imp l i e s p hy s i c a l s o l i d i ty , b u t s o me o f t h e p h e nomena s e e med t o b e l i gh t , e n e rgy , e t c e t e ra o T h e r e fo r e , we ar e wor k i n g w i th an un t e nab l e p h ra s e t o b e g i n w i th , " un i d e n t i f i e d f l y i n g o b j e c t s , " b u t i t i s the one w e h ave , and i t i s ve r y h a rd t o c h a n g e l an g u a g e ; howeve r , we c an g o s o fa r a s t o r e c o gn i z e t h a t t h e re i s a d i s t i nc t i o n . F o r i n s t ance , i n 1 9 5 2 , a p a i r o f l i gh t s w a s r ad a r - o b s e r ved , v i s ua l l y o b s e rve d , c on t ac t e d v i s ua l l y b y p l ane , f l y i n g o ve r t h e C ap i ta l o f t h e

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Un i t e d S t a t e s . A r e cu rren c e wa s t ak in g p l a ce a we e k l a t e r , a g a in unknown s f ly in g over t he C ap i t a l o f t h e Un i t e d S t a t e s , and t h e A i r F o r c e a dm i t t e d l y one hour l a t e . They n eve r exp l a in e d why i t t o o k t h em an hour t o g e t p l an e s up , but t hey f in a l ly g o t t h e p l ane s up ; and t h ey we re o u t d i s t an c e d and outman euve re d , and the t h i n g s d i s ap p e a r e d i n t o upp e r out e r s p a c e . Th i s rep o r t w a s p rop e r l y a UFO rep o rt .

In Novemb e r o f t h a t y e a r , G e o r g e Adams k i went o u t on t h e d e s e rt w i t h s ome fr i e n d s ne a r Parke r , Ar i z on a , s aw a mo t h e r s h ip , me t t h e o ccup an t o f a s c ou t s h ip , s p oke wi t h h im , d i s ­c ov e r e d t h a t h e w a s f rom Venus , O r t h on o f Venus , c o n c l u d e d t h e c onve r s a t i on , re turn e d t o h i s h ome a n d wro t e a b o u t i t i n a b o o k ; an d t h a t i s a f l y i n g - s au c e r rep o r t .

I w i l l n o t i n s u l t your i n t e l l i g en c e by s u g ge s t i n g t h a t I p o i nt o u t t h e d i f fe re n c e b e twe e n t h e two o ccurrence s . I s u gg e s t o n l y - - and t h i s i s t h e s e co n d one - - t h a t whe n rep o rt ­w r i t i n g , e t c e t e ra , on p h e nom e n a o f t h i s s o rt o r o t h e r p h e n omena wh i ch h ave no e xp l an a t i on , o r i f you do b e l i eve that it do e s h ave an exp l an a t i on - - n ame ly , t h a t i t i s a c ra ft from ou t e r s p a c e - - b e s p e c i f i c an d b e a ccurat e . An d I a dmon i s h t h e wr i t e r s w h o a r e i nf i n i t e ly more c a re l e s s t h an anyo n e e l s e i n t h i s a re a .

L a s t ly , I s u g g e s t t h a t we a l l s t op b e i n g qu i t e s o e go ­cen t e re d . We f a i l e d t o f i nd o u t h ow t h e s o l ar s y s t em func ­t i one d fo r c en t u r i e s b e c au s e we b e l i ev e d i t fun c t i one d around u s . We h ave n o t r e a l l y b e en d i s s ua d e d from t h a t conv i c t i on . We s t i l l b e l i e ve t h e s o l ar s y s t em fun c t i on s a round u s , an d n o t o n l y t h e s o l ar sy s t em , b u t t h e g a l axy an d t h e un i ve rs e i t s e l f , t h e p o i n t o f t h a t o b s e rv a t i on b e i n g t h a t wh e n we a s k wh e re t h e f ly i n g s au c e r s c ome from , t h e an swe r a l w ay s s e em s inev i t ab ly t o b e : ( a ) The s e come from out e r s p ace o They a re i n t e r ­p l an e t a ry . Th ey a r e i n t e rs t e l l a r . Th ey are i n t e r g a l a c t i c . (b ) Th e re i s a s m a l l e r group wh i ch s ay s t h ey are cons t ruct e d , conc e i v e d , and ope ra t e d f r om E a r t h . The s e conv i c t i on s u s u a l l y a r e p o l i t i c a l opp o r t un i ty . ( c ) An d t h e t h i rd , a much sma l l e r g ro up , b e l i ev e th ey come from th e i n n e r E a rt h .

Howeve r , - - and I h av e j u s t one o r two n o t e s h e r e - - I wou l d l i k e t o p o i n t o u t t h a t t h e r e a r e o t h e r p o s s i b i l i t i e s , s ome t h a t , frank l y , are c o n s i de rab ly mo re i n t e re s t i n g and more ima g i n a t ive . I w i l l t ry t o go r ap i d ly th rou gh them , hop i n g s ome o f t h em wi l l c l i ng t o y our memo ry , t h a t y o u m i gh t s p e cu l a t e o n t h em i n day s t o come .

We c o n c e ive o f t h e s e ob j e c t s b e l on g i n g t o one o f t h e t h r e e o r four ment i on e d c a t e go r i e s ; h oweve r , l e t me s u g g e s t o t h e r c a t e g o r i e s . Some w i l l b e imme d i a t e ly o bv i ou s . Y o u w i l l s ay , " Oh , I t h o u gh t o f t h a t , " o r " I r e a d o f th a t i n H . G . We l l s , " i f any o n e r e a d s t h e o l d wr i t e r o f f i c t i o n . Howeve r , m ayb e

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they d o n ' t come f r om " ou t t h e r e " o r " ov e r t h e re " o r " in ' '

t h e r e ; " m ayb e t h ey come from " b ack t he re , " mayb e they c ome from a t ime b e f o r e u s . Th i s is j us t a s l i k e ly , it wou l d s e em , a s t he i r c om i n g from t h e c en t e r o f t h e E a r t h , wh i ch de f i e s a l l c o n c ep t s we have ab o u t t h e phy s i c a l b e i n g s o f t h e p l ane t on wh i ch we l ive . Or wha t if t hey come from the future ? I a dm i t I c anno t c o n c e ive o f why anyone i n t h e fu ture wou l d wan t t o come b a c k t o t h i s t im e j us t b e c au s e th ey want t o s u rv ive . Th i s i s t h e o n ly p l ace we h ave t o l iv e . ( App l au s e . )

The r e i s ano t h e r wo r l d , m ayb e . Wh a t ab out p ara l l e l wo r l ds ? Mayb e wh i l e y ou are s i t t i n g t h e r e , t h e re i s an e qu a l l y l a rg e c r owd s i t t in g t h e re ? I n fact , I l i ke t h a t i de a v e ry much , t h a t t h i s c r owd i s tw i c e a s l a rge , t h a t t h i s c o n ­v en t i on i s tw i c e a s s u c c e s s fu l . But we a r e l e a rn i n g v e ry qu i c k ly t h a t t h e d imen s i on s we t hough t o f , c e rt a i n ly wh e n mo s t o f u s we r e i n s ch o o l , a r e not t h e d im e n s i on s t h a t c o n t ro l ; t h e s e a r e o n l y t h e d im en s i on s t h a t we s e e and t h a t wh i ch app a re n t l y a r e neve r t h a t wh i ch s o lv e s t h e mys t e ry . S o t h i n k up on t h a t . May b e eve rywhe re y ou wa l k , s om eone wa l k s , t o o . I t do e s n ' t h ave t o b e - - I am n o t t a l k in g ab o u t a human b e i n g ; I am t a l k i n g ab out the Pre s en c e . I am no t t a l k in g about s om e ­t h i n g s p i r i tua l . I am n o t t a l k in g ab out s ome t h i ng mys t i c a l . I t m i g h t b e s om e t h i n g a s re a l and c o n c re t e a s t h e f a c t t h a t y o u c an h av e a b a l l o on a n d fi l l i t a n d t h en f i l l i t a g a i n an d f i l l i t a g a i n . We don ' t know t h at t h e anc i e n t law o f p hy s i c s i s t ru e . May b e two t h i n g s c an ex i s t i n t h e s ame p l a c e a t t he s am e t im e , o r mayb e n o t p ara l l e l . May b e t h e re a re o t h e r d im e n s i on s .

The i de a o f " 4 " i s a c c ep t ab l e a f t e r 2 5 y e a r s , a l t h ough p ro p e r ly s p e ak in g , the " fourth d im en s i on " i s n ' t d im en s i on a l any m o r e t h an t h e f i f t h o r t h e s i x t h , wh i ch t h ey a r e n ow b e g i n n i n g t o s p e cu l a t e about and t h e s ub s e que nt deve l opme n t a l l o g i c . Wha t ab out t h e 8 7 t h d imens i on , o r 1 3 6 t h o r 2 1 9 t h ? Why mu s t we a s s um e t h a t t h e wo r l d we fun c t i on i n i s t h e o n l y wo r l d i n wh i ch any t h i n g can func t i on ?

Then t h e r e i s t h e p o s s ib i l i ty t h a t t h ey a r e m e re l y an ima l s . Aft e r c o n s i de r i n g s ome o f t h e s p e cu l a t i o n s o f t h a t i n c re d i b l e m a n , I van S an de rs on , a l ong t h i s l in e , I am n o t a t a l l conv i nc e d t h a t - - and h e ·w i l l fo r g iv e m e i f t h i s i s n o t s p e c i f i c a l ly the way h e d e s cr ib e d t h em - - h i s p ro t op l a sm i c o r amo eb a - l i ke c re a t u r e s f l o at i ng i n s p a c e a r e n o t t h e re . Or c ou l d t hey a l l b e m e n t a l p ro j e c t i on s , p ro j e c t i on s o f b e i ng s ou t s i de our E ar t h ? Why d o t h ey h ave t o b e t h i n g s ? Why d o t hey h av e t o b e l i gh t ? Why d o t h ey h ave t o b e e n e r gy ? An d you w i l l a s k , "Wh a t a r e t hey , a s t ra l o r men t a l p r o j e c t i on s ? " I wi l l wa i t i n t h e l obby , and any o n e wh o knows c an t e l l m e . Th e r e a r e s o many p o s s i b i l i ­t i e s , and I am a lway s c o n foun d e d by why p e op l e l im i t t h em t o " ou t t h e re , " and " o v e r t h e re , " an d " down t h e re " - - t h e du l l e s t p o s s ib l e exp l an a t i o n s .

r

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P e rh ap s t h ey a r e c o m i n g t o v i ew u s a s o n c e t h e I r i s h fo l k wen t t o s e e t h e we e p e op l e . Mayb e we a r e o n l y e l ves i n t h e i r wo r l d . May b e we a r e f i gment s o f the ima g in a t i on . May b e - - and t h i s i s wh a t amu s e s m e mo s t o f a l l - - o u r g r e a t un ive rs e ( an d I s ay " o u r " b e c au s e I k n ow t o o many wou l d b e a ff ro n t e d i f I s u g ge s t i t d i d n o t b e l on g t o u s ) h a s s wi r l e d our g r e a t g a l axy and turn e d our s o l ar sys t em i n t o a p l a c e i n t h e un i ve r s e t h a t i t h a s n eve r b e en b e fore . Mayb e ov e r t he l a s t 1 0 y e ar s , 5 0 ye a r s , 5 0 0 y e a r s , th e s i gh t i n g s b e g an , t h e wh o l e wo r l d we l i ve i n a n d t h e e d ge o f t h e s y s t em i n wh i ch we r e s i d e have b e en move d a c r o s s endl e s s ways o f s ky , and we a r e n ow s omep l a c e t h a t no l iv in g t h i n g h a s eve r b e en b e fo re e x c ep t t h a t wh i ch w a s a l r e ady h e r e .

I s u gg e s t t o y o u t h a t mayb e out t h e re f l y i ng a roun d whe re we h ave c om e , whe re we h ave i nvade d , t h e re a re p e op l e i n wh a t we c a l l s au c e r s s ay i n g , " Do you re a l ly be l i e ve t h a t i n t h a t s o l ar s y s t em t h in g over t he re , that t h i rd p l an e t from the s u n , t h e r e c an b e i n t e l l i g e n t l i f e ? " I wou l d h a t e t o d e f e n d t h e que s t i on , bu t t hey m i gh t p u r s ue i t . " D o you r e a l l y b e l i ev e t h a t i t i s p o s s i b l e t h a t i t i s i nt e l l i gent l y c on t ro l l e d a n d op e r a t e d ? " And I h ave n o i n t en t i on o f de fen d i n g t h a t , e i t h e r . Bu t , mo s t o f a l l , I wonde r i f s omewhe re o u t i n s p a c e o n wh a t w e c a l l " f l y i n g s au c e r s , " o n e g re a t , v a s t i n t e l l i ge n c e o f l i f e t u rn s t o an o t h e r an d s ay s , " Do y o u b e l i eve in f ly i n g wo r l d s ? " ( Ap p l aus e . )

MR . MO S E LEY : Ou r n e x t s p e ak e r i s one o f my b e s t fr i en d s . Two o r t h r e e ye a r s a go , on WOR , t h e r e w a s t h e Ran d i A l l - N i ght Show . I don ' t know h ow m any p e op l e he re rememb e r i t . ( App l au s e . ) I gu e s s qu i t e a f ew do . The M . C . o f t h e s h ow was v e ry k ind t o m e and t h e S au c e r News , and i n c re a s e d our c i r cu l a t i on qu i t e a b i t by h av in g m e and my f r i ends o n p ra c t i c a l l y e v e ry we e k . I d on ' t know t h a t we d i d much f o r t h e s how , b e c aus e i t f i n a l ly went o ff the a i r . I don ' t know i f t h a t i s the r e a s on , b u t dur i n g t h a t p e r i o d o f t ime Ran d i and I b e c ame g o o d f r i ends .

' We wen t down t o S o u t h Ame r i c a t o ge t h e r ab o u t two y e ars a g o . Act ua l ly , I u s e d t o sp end a l o t o f t ime down t h e re my s e l f . Mayb e I g ave h im t h e b u g , in t h e b e g i nn i n g, o f t re a s u re hun t i n g , l o o k i n g i n t o anc i en t ru i n s and e ven f l y i n g s au c e r s t o a l e s s e r e x t en t . I n any c a s e , by n ow , Ran d i h a s g o t t e n i n t o a l l o f t h e s e f i e l d s . He ma de a t r i p down t o S o u t h Ame r i c a on h i s own a b o u t t h r e e mon t h s a g o an d g o t b ac k ab o u t two we e k s a g o - - j us t i n t ime fo r t h i s c onven t i on . I n f a c t , h e cut s h o r t h i s t r ip j us t to b e h e re w i th u s t on i gh t . S o a t th i s p o i n t I wo u l d l i ke t o i n t r o du c e to you my v e ry go o d f r i end , J ame s Rand i , the Am a z i n g Rand i . (Ap p l au s e . )

( J ame s R an d i i s c o n s i de re d by a l l aut h o r i t i e s on the s ub ­j e c t t o b e t h e g re a t e s t m ag i c i an an d " ·e s c ap e a r t i s t " s in c e t he e ra o f H o u d i n i . I n t h i s c ap ac i ty , h e h a s b e come a r e gu l ar gue s t on T o d ay , Ton i gh t , Wo n d e r am a , an d o t h e r l e a d in g t e l ev i s i on s h ows . He h a s a l s o b e e n an ama t eur as t ronom�r fo r m any y e a r s . )

·-

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MR . JAME S RAND I : J im i s r i gh t . I am a v e ry g o o d fr i en d o f h i s , a s we l l a s b e i n g t h e f r i end o f m any p e op l e wh o h ave s t ra n g e t h e o r i e s and s t ran g e i de a s . I c o n s i d e r J im t o b e a v e ry s an e man , wh i l e I c o n s i d e r a g re a t numb e r o f s au c e r add i c t s ( i f I m ay put i t th a t way ) t o b e s omewh a t l e s s t h an re a s o n ab l e . J im ' s j ob i s rep o r t i n g wh at i s s a i d , s e e n , and t a l k e d ab o u t in the f l y i n g - s au c e r wo r l d , an d t h e r e fo re h e h a s n o p a r t i cu l a r a x e t o g r i nd . H e do e s n o t t ry t o p ro ve anyt h i n g o He do e s n o t t ry t o d i s p rove any t h i n g . He m e re ly rep o rt s .

I have a go o d numb e r o f op i n i on s on t h e UFO p h e n ome n a , an d b e fo re I g e t t o my s ub j e c t fo r th e even i n g , wh i ch I t h i n k y ou w i l l f i n d s omewh a t d i ffe ren t , I wou l d j u s t l i k e t o m o r e o r l e s s p o i n t o u t my i d e a s o n t h e s ub j e c t .

F i r s t o f a l l , I am g e t t i n g s i c k and t i re d o f s p e n d i n g a l o t o f t ime o u t i n New J e r s ey and i n New Yo rk an d , a s a ma t t e r o f f a c t , a l l o v e r t h e c o un t ry and i n d i ffe re n t p a r t s o f t h e wo r l d , s i t t i n g upon t h e bump e r o f a c a r and wa i t i n g fo r Venu s t o r i s e s o I c an i d en t i fy i t a s a UFO . I t i s a c o l d o c cup a ­t i on . And t h e n I h ave t o argue w i t h p e op l e a f t e rward t h a t t h a t was n o UFO , t h a t i t was V e nu s , l i k e , " Th a t wa s no o l d l ady ; t h a t was my w i f e . "

Th e r e a r e o n l y th r e e p o s s i b i l i t i e s when y ou run i n t o an a rgum e n t l i k e th i s . Th e f i rs t p o s s i b i l i ty i s th a t t h e re i s n ' t a Venu s , t h e s e c o n d p o s s i b i l i ty i s t h a t Venus h a s v an i s h e d from t h e s ky , t h a t i t i s n o l on g e r wh e re i t s h ou l d be , an d h a s b e en r ep l a c e d by a UFO ; and t h e th i rd p o s s i b i l i ty i s t h a t a U F O i s d i re c t ly i n fron t o f Venu s an d i n y o u r l in e o f s i ght . I c on s i d e r b o t h t h e l a t t e r two o f t ho s e p o s s i b i l i t i e s t o be r a t h e r r emo t e .

I s aw i n t h e P e rt h Amb oy Even ing News s ome t ime a g o a rep o r t ab o u t a g e n t l eman who e x c i t e d l y c a l l e d t h e news p ap e r and s a i d , ' 1 Ru s h ov e r h e r e qu i ck l y . I h ave j u s t s i gh t e d a UFO . " They ru s h e d o v e r , an d t h e r ep o rt e r a s ke d , "Wh a t d i d i t l oo k l i k e ? " l-Ie s a i d , "A s t ro n g , wh i t e l i g h t ly i ng l ow , h ove r in g . " P an i c ! " I won d e r i f i t w i l l l an d i n New Y o rk . " Th i s was a t 9 : 0 5 i n t h e even i n g t h a t i t wa s r ep o r t e d . An d wh i l e t h e r ep o r t e r w a s th e re h av in g t e a o r c o ff e e - - w e h o p e n o t h i ng s t ro n g e r - - t h e UFO , o r ano t h e r o n e e xa c t ly l i ke i t , c ame over and went i n the d i re c t i o n of New Y o rk a t ex a c t ly 1 0 : 0 0 o ' c l o c k . I w a s s omewh a t e n t r an c e d wi t h t h i s , b e c au s e I h a d s e en t h e s ame th i n g f ly i ng down i n New Je r s ey .

I l o o ke d i n t h e New Y o rk T ime s t h a t n i g h t , and s u r e enough , a s a t e l l i t e h a d p a s s e d ove r a t 9 : 0 4 c l o s e up , an d t h e o t h e r a t 1 0 : 0 1 , a l s o c l o s e up . Whe n I i n f o rm e d t h e gen t l eman ab o u t t h i s , h e p r a c t i c a l ly b u r s t i n t o t e a r s . " Do n ' t you know wha t I s aw ? Tha t wa s n o s a t e l l i t e , t h a t was a UFO . " We l l , wh en y o u a r e f a c e d w i th l o g i c l i k e t h i s , t h e re i s n o t ve ry much y o u c an d o o I t s e ems t h a t p e op l e who b e l i eve they s e e a

6 0

UFO a re c l i n g i n g t o th i s b e l i e f n o mat t e r wh at o They want a p he n omenon ; t h ey do n ' t wan t an exp l an a t i on .

Now , t o s o f t en th e b l ow o f t h i s s t a t em en t , I wou l d l i ke to s ay t h i s : Whe n you t h ink of b l o o d , you may t h ink o f two or t h r e e q u a rt s , but in o r de r to g e t a sm a l l numb e r of co r ­p u s c l e s , i t amoun t s t o n o t m o r e t h an a p i nch o f dus t i n t h e l on g run , bu t t h a t p in c h o f du s t c an b e ve ry imp o r t an t . The p o i n t is t h i s : I n amo n g a l l t h e ab s o l u t e t ra s h an d nons e n s e t h a t i s p e rp e t ra t e d i n t h e name o f UFO l ogy , t h e re i s , I b e l i e ve , a sma l l g ra i n o f fa c t . I am n o t s ay i ng " t ru t h " , b e c au s e t he re i s a l o t o f un t ru t h i n t h e s i t u a t i on , t o o . Down r i gh t , j us t p l a i n , o r d i n a ry , run - o f - t h e - m i l l l i a r s are i nvo lve d i n i t , t o o , an d l e t ' s n o t t a l k a b out t h a t .

I t h i n k t h a t i t i s about t ime t h a t you are s e r i o u s enough about t h i s wh o l e t h i n g to d i s c a rd the p e op l e who h ave r i dden p i ggyb a c k to Venu s and Ma r s and to Jup i t e r . " I t ' s 0 . K . f o r a we e k - e n d . " T h e p e op l e w i t h s t range h a t s , funny g l a s s e s , funny ant ennae and eve ry t h i n g I h ave n o u s e fo r wha t e ve r . They a r e g a rden - v a r i e t y l i a r s , and I h ave no us e fo r th em . Th e r e i s , I b e l i eve , a sma l l re s i due o f t ru t h , a sma l l r e s i ­due o f s om e t h i n g v e ry imp o rt an t , s ome t h i n g p e rh ap s much m o re imp o r t an t t h an m o s t p e op l e w i l l re a l i z e .

Th e s ub j e c t I am g o i n g t o t a l k on t on i gh t , t o g e t b ac k t o t h a t , i s , i n a way , r e l a t e d t o U F O phenomen a , p o s s i b l y . Le t ' s p u t i t t h a t way . As J im Mo s e l ey t o l d y o u , I h ave j us t r e t u rn e d f r om S o u t h Ame r i c a . J im i s c o r r e c t . I d i d g e t t h e b u g f r o m h im , b e c au s e I l i s t en e d t o h im , b u t I won ' t g e t i n t o a l l t h e d e t a i l s . J im kn ows S out h Ame r i c a , and h e deve l op e d a g re a t l i k in g f o r t h e c o n t i n e n t , i t s v ar i ou s count r i e s , t h e p e op l e , an d p a rt i cu l a r l y f o r s ome o f t h e f ab u l ou s t h i ng s t h a t a r e t o b e d i s c ove r e d down t h e re .

Now , y o u an d I - - a l l t h e p e op l e i n t h i s ro om - - we re r a i s e d m o re or l e s s on the i d e a t h a t Romans and G re e ks and E gyp t i an s c ame up , a l o t o f t h em , f rom Afr i c a , from t h e O r i e n t ; an d t h a t m o r e o r l e s s f o rme d u s a s a p e op l e , f o rme d our c u l ture , o u r l an gu a g e , and o u r int e l l e c t i n g en e ra l . Sou t h Ame r i c a d eve l o p e d i n d e p e n de n t ly o f us . S om e ab o r i g i n a l In d i an s wand e r e d d own t h e r e a n d d i d f an t a s t i c t h i n gs . I wan t t o s h ow y ou s om e f i lm s , and I ap o l o g i z e fo r t h e f i lm , b e c aus e i t h a s n o t b e en e d i t e d a s y e t . I have 4 6 0 0 f e e t o f f i lm t o e d i t . Th a t i s n o fun . Th e f i lm s t h a t I h ave t o s h ow y ou are 1 8 in numb e r , and s ome of t h em I had to p r ep a r e my s e l f l a s t n i gh t w i t h a deve l op i n g k i t up i n t h e h o t e l r o om , s o I d on ' t know h ow t h ey c ame ou t .

We have s l i de s . I wou l d l i k e t o exp l a i n t o you wh a t was r ep r e s en t e d by t h em . F i r s t o f a l l , I want to acqu a int you w i t h t he de s e rt . May I h ave t h e f i r s t s l i d e ? Wh a t y o u s e e

6 1

h e r e i s an awfu l ly de s o l at e s i gh t - - s ome fog gy m ount a i n s i n t h e b a c k groun d , an d in t h e f o r e g round a g r ay i s h - b rown de s e rt . I t i s a bun c h o f rub b l e . I t i s a s d e a d a s any a re a that you w i l l eve r l i k e ly c om e up on . Th e s o i l is a b o u t t h e cons i s t e n cy o f c i ga r a s he s a n d c i n d e r s . I t i s ab s o l u t e ly d e a d . As a m a t t e r o f f a c t , s om e o f i t rem in d s you v e ry much o f t h e l un a r - � p ro b e p i c t u r e s s en t b ac k . Th i s p a rt i cu l a r s e c t i on h e r e i s known a s t h e Na z c a De s e rt , l o c a t e d i n P e ru about 3 0 m i l e s f rom t h e c o as t . I t n e v e r r a i n s h e re , and t h a t means n ever . The re i s no p re c ip i t at i on wh a t s o eve r . The re i s n o t an an t , n o t a l o cu s t , not a b i rd , n o t a b l ade o f g r a s s . I t i s ab s o lu t e ly s t e r i l e a s i f i t h a d b e e n b o i l e d .

The a r e a you are l o o k in g at l o o k s ve ry f l a t . I t l o o k s q u i t e un in t e re s t i n g . A s a mat t e r o f f a c t , when t h e Sp an i s h c am e a b o u t 1 5 3 0 t o S o u t h Ame r i c a , t h ey bu i l t a ro a d r i gh t i n t h e m i d d l e o f th i s de s e r t . T h e P an - Am e r i c an H i ghway i s a l s o b u i l t a c ro s s t h e m i d d l e o f t h e de s e r t . Some one s a i d t h i s re g i on wou l d nev e r b e p op u l a t e d a s we l l a s t h e o t h e r s i de o f t h e m o on . Th a t h a s b e en b e g i nn i n g t o b e i n du l ge d .

The n , i n 1 9 2 0 , s omeb o dy d e c i de d t o f ly ov e r i t i n a p l an e an d p h o t o g r ap h i t . The p ho t o g r ap h s t h ey c ame b ac k w i t h r e ve a l e d one o f t h e m o s t a s t o n i s h in g f a c t s in h i s t o ry . I h ave s ev e r a l que s t i on s to a s k about the fac t s you are go i n g t o s e e . F i r s t o f a l l , l e t me s how y o u wh a t you s e e when you go t h e re i n p e r s on , b u t i t deve l op s a s you s e e i t . Ne x t s l i de , p l e a s e .

Th i s h a nd s om e gen t l eman o n t h e l e f t i s Yours Tru ly . We we re t h e re to pho t o g r ap h th i s , and t h e f i lm t h a t you are about to s e e s ho r t ly - - a mov i e f i l m - - w i l l b e t h e r e s u l t o f t h i s p a rt i cu l a r p i e c e o f wo rk . You w i l l s e e t h e b i g l e t t e r . Now , you s e e the g round a l i t t l e m o r e t ho rough l y . The g roun d i s p e r fe c t l y u n i nt e re s t i n g , a g ray i s h - b rown , f i n e g rav e l , a l o t o f s t o n e s s t rewn aroun d i t . May I h ave th e n e x t s l i d e , p l e a s e ?

Ag a i n , h e r e we s e e t h e d e s e rt l o o k in g p re t t y du l l , b u t i f you w i l l l o o k b ac k j u s t l e ft o f t h e c en t e r , you w i l l s e e wh a t l o o k s l i k e a fo o t p at h . B y c l o s e e x am in a t i on y o u w i l l s e e � h a t t h i s f o o tp a th i s , o h , m o re o r l e s s 2 � t o 3 inch e s d e e p , an d i t i s o n l y a b o u t 1 0 i nche s w i de , n o t much o f a fo o t p a t h . But t h e a s t on i s h i n g t h i n g about i t i s i t i s j us t a s s t r a i gh t a s i f i t we r e m a d e w i th a l a rge ro l l e r o r a l a s e r b e am , and i t runs f o r 3 � m i l e s i n a p e rf e c t s t r a i gh t l ine , and t h e n c ome s t o an e n d f o r n o r e a s on and b e g i n s a b s o l u t e ly n owhe re . Next s l i de .

H e re i s a s e t o f l in e s o f a s im i l ar n a t ure . We ran a l on g w i t h our fe e t an d s cu f f e d u p t h e l o o s e grave l an d reve a l e d a wh i t e , ch a l ky p owde r , you s e e t h a t sp i r a l l i n g a roun d . And y o u s a y , " lVe 1 1 , th a t ' s g r e a t . Wh at e 1 s e h a v e you g o t t o s h ow me ? " I t ' s n o t v e ry i n t e r e s t in g , b u t s ome th i n g b e g i n s t o t ake s h ap e .

6 2

The re i s s ome re a s on i n th i s . Th e re i s an i n t e l l e c t b e h i n d i t . I t i s n o t j us t a r amb l in g and s c r a t c h i n g o f s om e o n e wa l k i n g t h rough t h e d e s e r t ab s t r ac t l y . I t b e g in s t o t a ke s h ap e . I t i s a mo s a i c o r p a t h , a ma z e o f s ome k in d . Next s l i de , p l e a s e .

Th i s i s from a l i t t l e d i f fer ent an g l e . l le re we s e e a l o t o f c o n c e n t r i c c i rc l e s - - s t i l l p re t ty du l l - - o n ly about two yards b e twe e n e a ch one of the a r c s . Nex t s l i de .

Now we come up on a l i t t l e l a dy , a v e ry charm i n g l i t t l e l ady . I t h i n k h e r n ame i s Mar i a Wr i gh t . I don ' t know h e r a g e , b u t I ' d s ay s h e i s qu i t e e l de r l y . Twe n ty y e a r s ago , a t t h e e n d o f t h e l a s t Wor l d War , s h e c ame ove r f r o m Ge rmany , c omp l e t e ly d i s i l l u s i o n e d w i t h l i fe o She s a i d , ' 'Mr . R an d i , I wan t e d t o e s c ap e from t he wo r l d , f rom G e rmany . . , That was P e ru . She l i v e d i n a l i t t l e mud hu t on t h e e d g e o f the N a z c a D e s e r t . You s e e h e r s t an d i n g t h e r e a t one o f t h e sma l l e r f i gure s , b e c aus e t h a t i s wh a t they are . She s t ands i n among them , an d s he m e a s u r e s t h em day i n and day out . F o r 2 2 ye a r s she i s the o n ly p e r s on wh o has wr i t t en any t h i n g about the Na z c a L in e s . N e x t s l i de , p l e a s e .

H e re s he i s o n ano t h e r l i ne . Th i s l ine run s on fo r f ive or s i x m i l e s and at the end i t turn s a t an an g l e of about 4 0 d e gre e s and run s an o th e r two o r t h r e e m i l e s and runs i n t o a l a r ge t r i ang l e . No r e a s on wh a t eve r f o r i t . Next s l i de . Th i s i s a d rawi n g made from an ae r i a l p ho t o g rap h t ak e n s eve r a l m i l e s up . Th i s i s a n e x a g g e r a t e d t h i ckne s s o f t h e l in e . The l in e s a r e a c tu a l l y v e ry f i ne in c omp a r i s on . Th a t i s a draw i n g o f a h umm i n g b i r d . I t i s o v e r 3 5 0 f e e t l on g . I a s k you t h e fo l l ow ­i ng que s t i on s : Wh o m a d e i t ? T h e r e a r e n o p e op l e l iv i n g i n th i s a r e a wh a t s o eve r - - n o t now . Th e re m ay h ave b e en cen tur i e s a g o . But t h e i r p a t t e rn s i n n o way r e s emb l e t h e s e p a t t e rn s a t a l l . Th e s e f i gu r e s a r e a t l e a s t , I ' d s ay - - m ayb e t h r e e o r f o u r t ime s t h a t - - 1 5 0 0 y e a r s a g o . I wan t y ou t o n o t i c e how th e f i gure is m a de . I t b e g in s a t a l i ne a t t h e r i gh t an d t ra c e s aroun d t h e ent i re f i gu re and then runs d own t o t h e t a i l , a l mo s t comp l e t e s t h e f i gure , go e s a t an an g l e and run s up s ev e r a l l e n g t h s o f t h e b i rd ' s b o dy . The mys t e ry we a re con ­f ro n t e d w i t h i s th i s : Who made them ? How d i d t h ey make them ? I n t h e d e s e rt w i t h n o t h i ng t o l o o k d own o n , how cou l d you p o s s i b l y c o n s t ru c t an a c cur a t e f i gure l i k e t h i s ? An d , t h i rd , i f y o u g i ve a man s om e p a i nt , p ut h im i n a d a rk room an d t e l l h im t o make a p a i n t i n g and nev e r s h ow h im the p a i n t in g , wh at - ­

t h e p e op l e who made t h e s e neve r s aw t h em . I t t o o k unt i l 1 9 2 2 , i n an a i rp l ane , unt i l s om e o n e f i n a l ly g o t a l o o k at them .

Th i s i s a l a r g e s p i de r - l i k e f i gure . I t s t a rt s e x ac t l y t h e s ame way down a t t h e l owe r l e f t , run s up and comp l e t e s t h e who l e f i gure and run s b ack . I t i s n o t c omp l e t e d . T h e l i ne t ap e r s o ff i n t h e d e s e r t . Ne x t s l i d e , p l e a � e .

6 3

Th a t c ou l d b e an o c t op u s , e x c ep t t h a t i t h a s g o t a h e a d o n i t . A l l I know i s t h a t two fr i e n d s o f m i n e wen t down t h e a i s l e h an d - i n - h an d i n o n e o f t h o s e t h i n g s . He re you s e e a wo rm . Th i s g i ve s u s a l .i t t l e m o r e i n fo rma t i on about th i s p e op l e . They obv i ou s l y know t h e s e a r a t h e r we l l , b e c aus e tho s e wh o know w i l l t e l l u s i t mo s t p ro b a b l y i s a b l ue wh a l e wh i ch h a s b e en e x t i nc t ove r 6 0 0 ye a r s . S o we know · a g a i n , i t i s a t l e a s t 6 0 0 y e a r s o l d . ' We know by c a rb o n da t i n g t h a t a t t h e e n d o f t h e l i n e they ' ar e a t l e a s t 1 5 0 0 ye a r s o l d . So we k n ow a l i t t l e b i t mo re . . Chan ge s l i d e s , p l e a s e .

H e r e i s a f i gure , I wou l d h a t e t o gue s s wha t i t i s . I t i s a p r e t ty s c rappy - l o o k i n g t h in g . I t cou l d b e s e awe e d . I t c ou l d a l s o b e s eve r a l ri t h e r d i f f e r e n t typ e s o f p l an t s t h a t do not g row w i t h i n a g o o d 3 0 0 m i l e s . It cou l d b e do o d l i n g i n t h e s an d . I f s o , t h e s e p e op l e c ame a l on g way t o do th i s g i g an t i c do o d l i n g i n t h e· s an d . ( L augh t e r . ) F i n a l l y , th i s e n i gma t i c f i gu r e wh i ch r a t h e r f r i g h t e n s m e - - i f i t i s a l ive , I don ' t wan t t o c ome n e a r i t - - I w i l l t e l l you t h a t t h i s f i gu r e i s ove r 5 0 0 f e e t l on g an d wa s d rawn i n t h e d e s e rt by s c ra t ch i n g away t h e s an d . You m ay wonde r why the f i gu r e i s s t i l l t h e re . You c an l ay d own a p a c k a g e o f c i gare t t e s o n t h e d e s e r t , l e ave i t t h e r e , c om e . b ac k , an d t h e c i ga re t t e s w i l l s t i l l b e t h e r e i n a d ry an d p e rf e c t cond i t i on , b e c aus e t h e r e i s no t an i n s e c t o r a b i rd . Ab s o l ut e l y n o t h i n g l iv e s i n t h e d e s e r t . The r e i s n o t even a b l ade o f g ra s s an d no p re c i p i t a ­t i on wh a t s o e ve r . S o i t i s n o won d e r t h a t the s e t h i n g s c ou l d l a s t fo r 1 5 c e n tu r i e s and m o r e . Ne xt s l i d e .

H e r e i s Mar i a a s s he i s typ i c a l ly found i n the de s e r t . She i s s q ua t t i ng down i n among t h e l in e s . S e e s ome · o f t hem runn i n g a l on g , f i n e wh i t e l i n e s . Nex t s l i d e , p l e a s e . You w i l l s e e s t r i n g s and t ap e m e a s ure s and wha t - no t that she i s u s i n g . I g re a t ly f e ar , a l t hough I h a t e t o s ay t h i s , t h a t s he i s b a r k i n g up an emp ty t re e . ( Th e r e i s no t re e wha t eve r . ) She is t ry i n g to f i n d r e l at i on s h i p s amon g t h e me a s uremen t s of mag i c numb e rs , p r ime numb e r s and wha t - n o t . The G e rman m in d , I m i gh t a d d in p a s s i n g , h a s b e en known f o r p re o c cup a t i on w i t h numb e rs . Th i s i s a l l v e ry · g o o d . I t make s fo r wonde r fu l m a t hema t i c i ans . I t a l s o s ome t im e s go e s t o t h e h e a d - - i n t h i s c a s e , o f Mar i a Wr i gh t , wh o , hav i n g s p e n t 2 2 y e a r s o n a l on e ly de s e rt i n a m i s e r ab l e d e s e r t h u t , h a s b e gun t o imag ine . I t ak e n o th i n g away f r om t h e l adj .

. I do n o t s p e a k a g a i n s t h e r . I f i n d he r

v e ry c h a rm i n g and v e ry p l e a s an t , o f cours e . She was ve ry , ve ry g o o d t o u s . Ne x t s l i de .

H e r e s h e i s w i t h s ome o f he r s t r an g e t h i n g s t h a t s h e h a s l a i d out , t ry i n g t o r e �on s t ru c t t h e f i gu re s . And s o f a r th i s h a s b e en a t o t a l f a i l ur e . I don ' t kn ow t h a t s he m i gh t n o t c om e up on s om e th i n g s om e day , b u t I t h i n k i t i s p r e t ty ev i de n t t h a t r i gh t now h e r r e s e a r c h h a s l e d nowh e re . An o t h e r s l i de , p l e a s e . A g a i n t o t h e N a z c a De s e rt . Th i s i s t h e v i s i b l e a r e a wh e re t he s e t h i n g s o c cu r re d .

6 4

We are now go i n g t o s h ow you a b i t o f a mo t i on p i c ture , and you w i l l s e e s ome o f t he s e t h i ng s t ak in g p l a c e . Pho t o ­grap h s we re t ak e n f r om about 1 2 f e e t up i n t he a i r o n t o p o f a c a r , an d t h o s e four s ho rt e n e d p i c t ure s w i l l p rove t o you t h a t un l e s s you h ave a c on s i de rab l e s t ru c ture of g r e a t h e i gh t , i t i s imp o s s i b l e fo r you t o s e e t h e s e th i n g s . You c anno t t e l l wh a t t h ey a re . The re i s ano t h e r p o s s i b i l i ty wh i ch I w i l l d i s cu s s w i t h you r i gh t a f t e r t h e r o l l o f f i l m . I t i s only a b o u t a m i nu t e an d a ha l f , and I w i l l t e l l you whe n you c an l e t o f f .

He re you s e e Mar i a Wr i gh t i n t h e de s e r t mak i n g s ome o f h e r m any m e a s u remen t s . She h a s o c cup i e d 2 2 ye ars o f he r t im e a t th i s , b u t y ou mu s t rememb e r s h e i s t h e o n l y p e rs on who h a s d o ne any t h i n g ab ou t t h e draw i n gs i n t h e Na z c a De s e rt . Th i s , I c o n s i d e r t o b e r a t h e r p h enomena l , t h a t s h e i s the on l y o n e w h o h a s b o t h e r e d t o t kk e any cur i o s i ty i n t h em .

Th i s i s t h e a c tu a l l i ne . You c an s e e h ow i n s i gn i f i c an t i t i s . I t i s j u s t a l i t t l e t rough i n t he de s e r t , and y e t t h e s e t h i n g s h ave run o n hun dr e d s o f f e e t t o make a f i gure , and i n s ome c a s e s f o r many m i l e s , a f i gu r e a c t u a l l y that b i g i n s i z e .

Now we are i n a p l an e ove r t h e p a t ch . You c an s e e t h e h e a d o f a wha l e - l i k e f i gu r e . Y o u w i l l have t o t ak e my wo rd for i t � T h a t ' s wha t it l oo k s l i k e f rom an a i rp l an e . A g a i n , unre c o gn i z ab l e " We we re s t an d i n g 1 2 f e e t h i gh i n t h e a i r i n o rde r t o p ho t o g r ap h t h i s , b u t i t i s n o t r e c o gn i z ab l e a s a f i gu r e a t a l l un l e s s you a re s t an d i n g 1 2 f e e t h i gh o r i n the a i r . And t h e s e p e op l e e i t h e r c ou l d f ly o r e l s e t hey made the f i gu r e s for s om e o n e who c ou l d f ly , and t ha t ' s s ome t h i ng to t h i n k about .

He re i s th i s l i t t l e l ady s t i l l wo rk ing away , and I am s ur e t h a t s h e wi l l be wo r k i n g away fo r many y e a r s mo re . S h e i s a h appy l i t t l e l a dy . S h e i s c o n t ent w i t h h e r wo rk . I t h i n k w e a r e c on t e n t w i t h wh a t w e a r e do i n g , b u t mo s t d e f i n i t e l y s he i s . S h e may b e a de d i c a t e d p e r s on b ark i n g up t h e wro n g t r e e , b u t t h a t ' s b e en don e b e fo r e , an d t h e r e i s n o d i s g r a c e i n i t wha t s o e v e r . She wa s ve ry g o o d t o u s . I s p e n t 4 8 hours w i t h h e r wo r k i n g away . B u t t h e de s e r t h a s b e en ve ry h a r d on h e r a s y o u c an s e e . Thank you . I t h i n k t h a t w i l l d o fo r t h e f i lm . Thank y o u v e ry much . ( App l au s e . )

Now , l ad i e s and g en t l emen , I h ave c ome b e fo re you t h i s even i n g n o t t o t e l l y ou a g r e a t de a l a b o u t UFO s , b u t I , i n my own p r iva t e , l i t t l e wo r l d , h ave imag i n a t i on o I h ave n o t e x a c t ly a t h e o ry ab out t h i s , b e c au s e a t h e o ry i s r a t h e r we l l deve l op e d . I t i s s om e t h i n g t h a t c o m e s o u t o f t h e t op o f your h e ad . Th i s a rgumen t do e s . But I t h i n k it i s wo r t h c o n s i de r ­i ng t ha t t h e r e i s a g o o d p o s s i b i l i ty t h e p e op l e o f Na z c a , a t

n ,

6 5

l e a s t 1 5 cen tur i e s a g o , Abo r i g i n e s a s t h ey m ay h ave b e en , c e rt a in l y had a c e r t a i n amoun t o f s oph i s t i c at i on . We don ' t know whe r e t h ey c am e f rom ; we don ' t know wh e r e t hey wen t wh en they l e f t . They d i dn ' t l e ave any p o t t e ry , they d i dn ' t l e av e any t ex t i l e s , they d i dn ' t e v e n l e ave t h e i r own b on e s b e h i n d . Th e re i s n o t h i n g t o t e l l u s wh o made t h e s e l i n e s . Who ev e r made t h em mu s t h a v e h a d a t reme n dous amoun t o f s k i l l . Th ey mus t have c ome from a g r e a t d i s t an c e in o rd e r to a c c omp l i s h th i s . They mu s t h ave b e en de d i c a t e d p e op l e t o make the s e en o rmous d r aw i n g s t h a t l o o k e d t o m e v e ry mu ch l i k e s ome s o r t o f l and i n g f i e l d . They a r e v e ry c a r e ful l y p r ep a re d , a r e c ­t an g l e t h a t run s f o r ha l f a m i l e and m o r e and a qu a r t e r o f a m i l e i n w i d th .

Th e n t h e que s t i on i s a s ke d : Why d i d they make t he m ? Pe rhap s t h ey made t hem b e c au s e they wo rsh ipp e d t h e s un an d t h ey wan t e d t o s h ow s ome t h i n g t o the s un . Th e re i s ano t he r p o s s i b i l i ty - - an d I wou l d n o t deny t h e p o s s i b i l i ty a t a l l - - t h e p o s s i b i l i ty that t hey s aw s ome th i n g s t r an ge i n the s ky , s ome t h i n g s h ap e d l i k e - - th ey wou l dn ' t c a l l i t a c i g a r o They wou l dn ' t c a l l i t a s au c e r . Wha t ev e r t h ey c a l l e d i t , we w i l l n e ve r know . We don ' t know wh o they we re , wh e re they c ame f rom , o r wh e re t h ey wen t t o . They l e f t no t h i n g b e h i n d but the s e g i g an t i c d r aw i n g s o f the de s e r t o f Na z c a o

Who eve r t hey we re , p e rh ap s t h e y , t o o , s aw s ome o f the s ame th i n g s that p e op l e i n th i s room and o t h e r p e op l e n o t h e re t on i gh t h ave s e en a s we l l . I t o c cu r s t o me t h a t t h ey p e rhap s f e l t i t w a s wo r t h wh i l e t o make s ome s o rt o f s i gn t o t he s e p e op l e , t h a t t h ey w e r e down h e r e a n d t h ey c a red . Th e p e op l e i n th i s ro om h av e come h e re i n g r e a t p a r t b e c au s e they do c a re wh a t is h app en i ng i n the s k i e s . I c a re , t o o , an d t h a t i s one o f t h e r e a s on s I h ave c ome h e re . I t h a s b e en a p l e a s ure t a l k i n g t o you . I t h ank you f o r your k i n d a t t e n t i on . G o o d even i n g . (App l au s e . )

MR . MO S E L EY : Th e r e w i l l b e a s l i gh t de l ay b e fo r e Roy Th i nn e s g e t s h e r e . We are v e ry c o n fu s e d on th i s p rob l em , b e c au s e we h ave t o t ry t o he lp h im g e t in and out o f the h o t e l w i t h ou t h av i n g too much d i ff i cu l ty . We h a d a n e ar r i o t th i s a ft e rn o on o n t h i s v e ry p o i n t . S o I j u s t now g ave wo rd f o r h im to c ome in f rom t h e s e c r e t l o c a t i on in wh i ch h e i s n ow l o c a t e d w i t h a group o f r e t a i n e r s who I c ann o t n ame an d a l l t h a t s o r t o f th i n g , b u t h e w i l l b e h e re v e ry s o on .

Now , wh i l e we are wa i t i n g , I b e l i eve t h a t we h ave s omewh e r e i n t h e aud i en c e t h e Man a g in g E d i t o r o f S c i en c e D i ge s t , and even t h ough h e opp o s e s UFO s v e ry v i g o rous ly , he an d I are very g o o d p e r s on a l f r i ends , D a n C o h e n o I f he i s h e re , wi l l h e p l e a s e t ak e a b ow ? I w a s t o l d h e w a s h e re i n t h e aud i en c e s omewh e re . Th i s i s t h e way i t g o e s . nan Cohen , i s h e he re ? He m i ght have l e f t e a r l i e r . We w i l l i n t ro duc e h im a t th e n e x t s e s s i on .

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I h ave a bu l l e t i n . Roy Th i nn e s w i l l b e h e re i n two m inut e s by t h e c l o c k . He i s o n h i s way d own on the e l evat o r f rom a s e c r e t l o c at i on w i t h i n t h e h o t e l , s u rroun d e d by a g r o up o f s e c r e t p e op l e . We are h av i n g s ome t roub l e w i t h the "Al i en s ' ' wh o are a l s o re g i s t e re d i n the h o t e l i n d i ffe r e n t r o oms .

An d , n ow , l a d i e s and g e n t l emen , i t i s my p l e a s ure t o i n t r o duce t o you , a s I d i d th i s a ft e rn o on , t h e S t ar o f t h e T V s e r i e s , " Th e I nvade r s , " our s p e ci a l gu e s t w h o c arne a l l t h e way from Ho l lywo o d , C a l i fo rn i a , Roy Th i nn e s . (App l au s e . )

MR . ROY TH I NNE S : G o o d even i n g . Has t h e r e b e en a l i t t l e ch ao s ? I h e a r d s om e o n e men t i on chao s on t h e way i n . Has t h e re b e en any ? Have you h a d a go o d even i n g ?

F ROM THE F LOOR : Ye s , s i r !

MR . TH I NNE S : : ( Co n t i nu i n g ) I n f o rmat ive ? "Ve ry d i s appo i n ­t i n g , " s omeb o dy s a i d ? You c an ' t w i n th em a l l .

I am p l e a s e d t o b e h e r e t on i gh t . I wan t t o t h a n k Mr . Mo s e l ey fo r invi t i n g me . He c e r t a i n ly m a k e s me fe e l an e xp e rt , b u t I am n o t g o i n g t o s p e ak a s an e xp e r t , fo r th a t I am n o t , a l t h ou gh I do f e e l I am do i n g my p a r t . I do b e l i eve the re are UFO s . Many of u s d o . Th e re is no r e a s on n o t t o . Some of u s h av e s e en t h em . I h ave , but I won ' t g i v e you any i n forma t i on . I am s u r e t he s p e ak e r s t h i s even i n g , th i s a f t e rno on , and t omo rrow a f t e rn o o n a t 2 : 0 0 o ' c l o c k w i l l p rov i d e you w i th much more i n fo rm a t i on t h an I c ou l d eve r p rov i de you w i t h .

I p l ay i n a t e l ev i s i on s e r i e s c a l l e d "The I nv a d e r s . " (Ap p l au s e . ) Thank you . I p l ay V i n c en t , a man v e ry much l i ke t h e gen t l emen you h ave b e en l i s t e n i n g t o t h i s a f t e rnoon . �·1a ny o f the g e n t l emen we re b e h i n d a l l t h e i nve s t i g a t i on s t h a t are p r iv a t e ly c onduc t e d around t h e wo r l d a ft e r every s i gh t i n g . We c i v i l i an s h ave t o g e t t o ge t h e r and do i t our s e l ve s . The A i r F o r c e has b e en keep i n g it r a t h e r s e c r e t . I t h a s b e en d o i n g a go o d j o b o f i t , t o o .

F o r th o s e o f y o u who may h ave b e en h e re t h i s a f t e rn o on , I rep e a t my s e l f a l i t t l e b i t . When I f i r s t s t art e d do i n g n The Invad e rs , ' ' I a l re a dy had an i n t e r e s t . Th a t i n t e re s t has g rown b e c au s e o f the va s t amo unt o f i n fo rma t i on t h a t c ame t o me from va r i ou s s ou r c e s . Ac c ep t i � g t h e f a c t t h a t UFOs e x i s t e d , I que s t i on e d t h e i r o r i g i n ; and s h ou l d t h e o r i g i n b e a s up e r ­i n t e l l i ge n c e o f an o t h e r p l an e t o r e l s ewh e r e i n t h i s g a l axy o r a fur t h e r g a l a xy , why don ' t t h ey c ommun i c a t e w i t h us ? I con ­s i d e re d i t a v e ry h o s t i l e a c t . I t ang e r e d me . My e go cou l dn ' t s t an d t h e r e j e c t i on and c on s i d e r e d t h em v e ry h o s t i l e . Wh i l e p rep a r i n g fo r " Th e I nv a d e r s , " I had t o ana l y z e - - a s we re f e r t o t h em o n "Th e I nvade r s 1 1 - - 1 1 a l i e n s . " L e t ' s c a l l them

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" v i s i t o r s . " I a s ke d my s e l f i f I we re o b s e rv i n g from a d i s t an c e m an k ind h e re on E a r t h , wha t wou l d I s e e ? I wou l d s e e a l o t o f v a r i ou s - c o l o re d p e op l e l iv in g on one p l an e t and c o n s t an t l y d i s a g re e i n g . They p o i s on the a i r they b re a the , t h e wa t e r they d r i n k . Th ey p o i s on t h e fo o d they e a t . They are r a t h e r s e l f - de s t ru c t i ve .

As a ma t t e r o f f a c t , I was wat ch i n g the J o hnny C a r s on s h ow one n i ght wh en a f a rm e r from M i ch i g an was on who h a d m a de a s i ght i n g , rep o r t e d i t , and w a s r i d i cu l e d - - t h a t s ame o l d s t i gma : I f you s e e a f l y i n g s au c e r , you h ave g o t t o b e a c ra c kp o t . The s t i gm� i s l i ft i n g . I t s ha l l b e remove d s o o n . The m an s a i d , a f t e r b e in g r i d i cu l e d , t h a t r a t h e r t h an r ep o r t ano t h e r s i gh t in g , he �ou l d j u s t t a k e a s h o t a t i t . An d J ohnny C ar s on awa rded h im � - - and v e ry w i s e ly s o - - the " S t up i d i ty - o f - t h e - We e k Awa rd . " So he wen t t o wo rk s t a r t i n g an i n t e rp l an e t a ry war . Can ' t you j us t imag i ne t h e m a n i n s i d e t h e f ly i n g s au c e r s ay , " Re l e a s e t h e i n s e c t i c i de . They have b i t t en . " ( L augh t e r . ) An d t h a t ' s t h a t !

My m e s s a g e i s a s imp l e one and n o t t o o i n s t ru c t ive . I t h i n k i t app e a l s t o a l l our n a tu r e s . None o f u s wou l d l i k e t o d i e . I have n o t m e t a human b e i n g ye t wh o woul d - l i k e t o d i e . W e c o n t inue t o h a v e t h e s e c o l o r fu l p a g e an t s eve ry 2 0 o r 3 0 y e ar s c a l l e d "wa r . " Wh en I ob s e rve from a d i s t an c e , I don ' t t h i n k I wou l d wan t t o g e t m i x e d up w i t h "us , ' 1 and I hop e t h e j ourney t o ab o l i s h d i s b e l i e f and t o b ro a de n the ima g i na t i on i n t h e m inds of our c i t i z e n s re g a rd i n g UFOs , t o k e ep fo remo s t i n our m i n d s t h a t our i n s t inct i s t o s u rv ive , n o t d e s t roy , i s n o t l on g . We s hou l d have p e a c e . Than k you ! G o o d n i gh t ! (App l au s e . )

MR . MOS E L EY : L ad i e s and gen t l emen , p l e a s e d o n o t g o i n t o t h i s a r e a and c l o g t he b a c k s t a g e . P l e a s e g i ve t h e man a c h a n c e t o l e ave .

The m e e t i n g i s ove r . We w i l l s e e you aga i n t omo r row a ft e rn o on . Thank you v e ry much f o r com i n g ! G o o d n i ght !

(At 1 0 : 2 5 o ' c l o c k , p . m . , the S a t urday Eve n i n g S e s s i on was a d j ourn e d . )

SUNDAY AFT ERNOON , JUNE 2 5 , 1 9 6 7

MR . MO S E LEY : We a re r e a dy t o b e g in , i f you w i l l q u i e t d own , p l e a s e . My n ame i s J im Mo s e l ey , a s m any o f you know , an d we a r e r e a dy t o b e g in t h e f i n a l s e s s i on o f th i s won d e rfu l c ome dy , o r c onve n t i on . S o I hop e eve ryon e w i l l t ak � the i r s e a t s , a n d t h e s e s s i on i s re a dy t o b e g i n r i gh t now .

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( LONG JOl iN NEB E L , a s ho s t o f t h e n a t i on ' s mo s t p opu l a r a l l - n i gh t t a l k s h ow , on WNB C rad i o in New Yo rk , Long John has done more t h an any o th e r en t e r t a i ne r , t h roughout the y e a r s , t o p romo t e the f l y in g - s au c e r c au s e . Eve r s i n c e h i s n i gh t l y p ro g ram b e gan o n WOR i n 1 9 5 6 , J o h n h a s h ad an e nd l e s s p arade o f s au c e r p e r s on a l i t i e s a t h i s m i c ro p h o n e s - s t a r t i n g w i th Howard Men g e r , t h e I I i gh B r i d ge , New J e r s ey , c on t ac t e e who wa s s ky - r o c k e t e d i n t o n a t i on a l p rom i ne n c e b e c au s e o f h i s nume rous app e a r an c e s w i t h J o hn . L o n g John Ne b e l i s au tho r o f t h e p opu l a r b o o k "The Way Ou t Wo r l d , ' ' h a s h a d h i s own t e l ev i s i on s e r i e s , an d curr e n t ly h a s s eve ra l o t h e r r ad i o s h ows o n WNB C i n add i t i o n t o h i s work f o r "Mon i t o r ' an d the n i gh t t i me s h ow . )

MR . L ONG JOHN NEB E L : H i ! How are you ? (App l au s e . ) You c an h e a r me any n i gh t , s o I won ' t b o re y o u by t ak i n g a l o t o f t ime now . I f you h ave b e en l i s t en in g , I men t i on e d t o y o u t h a t w e h a d m e t , o h , I gue s s about two o r t h re e day s ago , a y oung l a d y who c a l l s h e rs e l f ' 'V i - Venus . ' 1 I s s h e h e re ? Wi l l you b r i n g h e r up ? No g i mm i ck , n o s n i ck , we w i l l g e t r i gh t to i t . 0 . K . An d we h ave g o t s ome g o o d i e s f o r you t o d ay . I van D . S an d e r s on w i l l be h e re s ho r t ly , and Howa rd Men g e r and C onn i e Men g e r .

Now , w i l l you c ome up h e r e , honey ? Now , t h i s young l ady l e t me j u s t t ak e a moment to i n t ro duce h e r , b e c aus e the re

i s a p o s s i b i l i ty t h a t s ome p e op l e are c omp l e t e ly unfam i l i a r w i t h t h i s youn g s t e r o S h e c l a ims h e r n ame i s V i - Venus , V - i ­V - e - n - u - s . Jus t wan t t o s h ow y ou I am e duc a t e d - - I c an s p e l l . Now , s h e t e l l s u s t h a t s he a r r i ve d on th i s p l an e t on the 2 4 t h d ay o f S ep t emb e r , 1 9 6 0 , from t h e P l an e t Venu s . I h ave to l d h e r b e fo re , I w i l l rep e a t i t a g a i n , I don ' t b uy t h i s s t o ry . Howeve r , l e t me j u s t s ay t h i s t o you : Me l A l l en , t h e g re a t s p o r t s c a s t e r , who i s a fan o f t h e s h ow , c ame a l l t h e way i n f rom h i s h o m e o u t i n Conn e c t i cu t t o s e e the young l ady , an d t h e n I s a i d , " L o o k , i f y ou want t o b e on , Me l , f in e . " An d a l s o the NB C News Dep artment s en t a m an i n t o t he s tu d i o , and we h ad Art F o rd and we had B i g D i c k Te a s e and Lee G a l l e n and a numb e r of o t h e r s .

S h e h a s an i n t e re s t i n g s t o ry . I h op e I c an c ome down the re , b e c au s e t o s e e me , t o t a l k t o me i s n o t go i n g t o i mp r e s s y o u a t a l l . I n a few m inut e s I am go i n g t o i n t ro duc e How a r d Men g e r , b u t I ima g i ne s ome o f y ou p e op l e , i f y ou we re l i s t en i n g l a s t n i ght , you know t h a t you h ave a que s t i on t h a t i s b e t t e r than any que s t i on I have eve r t h ough t o f . I am go i n g t o g i ve you a chan c e t o a s k i t . I w i l l b e down t h e r e i n a momen t .

"Viv , " y ou j u s t s t an d h e r e , an d we w i l l s e e h ow we wo rk i t ou t . Supp o s i n g , V iv , t h a t you t ak e , oh , m ayb e ab ou t a m i nu t e o r t wo j us t t o g re e t t h e s e p e op l e who have b e en k i n d t o

6 9

c ome h e re th i s a f t e rn o on t o a t t en d t h e f i r s t New Y o rk " F l y in g S auc e r " c onvent i on a n d t o t e l l t h em b a s i c a l l y wh a t I h av e a l re a dy t o l d t h em b u t i n y o u r own wo r d s , p l e a s e .

V I - VENUS : 0 . K . I w i l l s ay t h e s t o ry I exp e c t t o t e l l you I wou l d n o t wan t any o f y ou t o b e l i ev e t h a t I am from ano t h e r p l an e t imme d i a t e l y , b e c au s e I know y ou a r e i n t e l l i g e n t p e op l e , an d by t h e t i me I a m t h rough m y m i s s i o n , n o t a t t h i s Ho t e l Comm o d o r e , i t i s my h op e an d my b e l i e f you w i l l n o l on g e r c a re w h o I am , b u t y o u w i l l c a r e wh o y o u a r e , an d t h a t i s t h e who l e m i s s i on . I t i s t o l e t y o u kn ow , t o m a k e you awa r e o f s om e t h i n g y o u p ro b a b ly a l re a dy know b u t you a r e a f r a i d t o b e l i ev e fu l ly , an d t h a t i s t h e re i s o n l y o n e m i n d , th a t y o u a n d y o u a n d y o u and you a r e a l l p a r t s o f t h a t one m in d , and i f y o u c an l e t go , op en your m i nd fu l l y and b e l i eve in the good of that one m i nd wh i ch you c a l l G o d , you w i l l have e v e ry ­

t h i n g wo r k fo r y o u f r om h e a l t h t o r i ch e s t o l ove , j us t a s you s e e w i t h n a t u r e t h a t fo l l ows a cou r s e and do e s not f i g h t t h e s e n a tu r a l l aw s . And now i t ' s your t urn . ( App l au s e . )

MR . N E B E L : I n o t i c e s ome p e op l e s a i d t h ey c an ' t h e a r h e r . I t i s q u i t e obv i ou s t o me t h a t t h e re a r e n o t t o o many Venu s i an s h e r e t h i s a f t e rn o on ; o t h e rw i s e , y o u wou l d h ave r e c e i v e d t h e m e s s a g e t e l ep a th i c a l l y .

V I - VENUS : ( No dd i n g a ff i rm a t i v e ly . )

MR . N E B E L : I don ' t h ave t h a t l on g a c o rd . I t ' s made o u t o f rub b e r , b u t i t r e a l ly d o e s n ' t s t re t ch . S o t ry t o h ave your que s t i on i n m i n d , a n d we w i l l wo r k it t h a t way . Ye s , s i r , wha t i s y o u r qu e s t i o n ?

Q My q ue s t i on i s : How d i d y ou a r r i v e from Venu s ?

MR . NEB E L : Don ' t l o o k a t m e , I d i dn ' t a r r i v e from Venu s .

V I - VE NUS : I c ame i n wh a t you re fe r t o a s a 1 1 f l y i ng s au c e r , " b u t , i n f a c t , i t i s c a l l e d a " swo op . "

MR . NEB E L : A l l r i gh t , t h e re i s o n e fo r y o u r b u l l e t i n .

Q My n am e i s V i r g i n i a I wou l d l i k e t o know why t h i s g i r l t h a t you s ay you are r ep re s en t i n g , why s he wan t e d t o comm i t s u i c i d e .

MR . N E B E L : L e t m e j u s t s ay t h i s a mom e n t t o t h e l i s t ene r s . I h a v e no r i gh t t o s ay " l i s t en e r s , " but I gue s s you a r e h e re , y o u a r e l i s t en i n g . Th i s young l ady t o l d m e l a s t n i gh t t h a t on t h e 2 4 t h d ay o f S ep t emb e r , 1 9 6 0 , h e r doub l e , a g i r l b o rn an d r a i s e d on t h i s p l an e t , c omm i t t e d s u i c i de , an e xa c t doub l e . S h e , i n t u rn , wa s s en t h e r e f rom t h e p l an e t Venu s - - t h a t i s , V i - Venus h e r e - - and t o o k o v e r t h e b o dy o f t h e o t h e r g i r l .

7 0

Now , t h a t ' s why t h i s q u e s t i on wa s r a i s e d , and I t h i n k i t ' s a v e ry f a i r q ue s t i on by V i rg i n i a h e re . no you wan t t o an swe r i t , p l e a s e ?

V I - VENUS : Y ou s a i d , why d i d s h e wan t t o k i l l h e rs e l f ? I s t h a t wh a t y o u a re s ay i n g ?

MR . NEB E L : Th a t i s t h e qu e s t i on .

V I - VENUS : S h e w a s n o t v e ry h appy . Wh a t c a n I t e l l y o u ? I c ann o t t e l l you a s p e c i f i c an s we r , unde r s t an d t h i s , b e c au s e o f wh a t I exp l a i n e d l a s t n i gh t .

MR . NE B E L : A l l r i gh t , y ou a r e g o i n g t o h ave t o s t and up o r I am g o i n g t o h ave a b ro k e n b a c k .

Q I wou l d l i ke t o know , a f t e r s h e d i e d , how d i d you get i n t o t h e b o dy ?

MR . N E B E L : I a s k e d i t , t o o , b u t i t w a s vu l g a r .

V I - VE NUS : I d i dn ' t g e t i n t o h e r b o dy . I am no t t h e s am e g i r l .

Q You g o t i n t o t h e b o dy and you c h a s e d h e r ou t . ( L au gh t e r

MR . N E BE L : Th e re w a s n o c h a s i n g h e re . The re w a s a fe l l ow c h a s i n g t h e o t h e r g i r l .

Q Don ' t y o u unde r s t an d wh a t I am t a l k i ng abou t ? Th i s s o u l , t h a t you t o o k ove r t h e b o dy - - r i gh t ? You wen t and c am e in t o h e r b o dy , a l t h ough y o u we re a doub l e , y o u are n o t h e r , a n d y o u a re de c e i v i n g t h e p a r en t s o f th i s g i r l .

V I - VENUS : No , ma ' am .

MR . N E B E L : No .

V I - VENU S : She s ay s I t o o k ove r t h e b o dy o f who ?

Q O f t h e d e c e a s e d .

V I - VENU S : I n o t h e r wo r d s , mak in g u s one p e r s on ? I n o t h e r wo r d s , I w a s j u s t b o rn , i s t h a t wh a t y o u a r e s ay in g ?

Q No , n o .

V I - VENU S : We a r e two d i f f e r e n t p e op l e .

MR . NEB E L : I f I m ay , p l e a s e , l e t m e j us t e xp l a i n t h i s t o y o u a s I kn ow i t , a n d I h av e in t e rv i ewe d t h i s young l ady f o r many , m any h ou r s . He r s t o ry i s t h a t eve ry o n e h a s a doub l e ,

7 1

you h ave a d o ub l e , I have a d o ub l e . Now , the Venu s i an s h a v e t h i s ph i l o s op hy , t h a t wh e n s om e o n e d i e s on th i s p l an e t a d o ub l e t a k e s o v e r t o c on t i nu e t h e l i fe , n o t s t e a l i n g your b o dy , not s t e a l i n g y o u r l i fe , b u t so t h a t you c o n t i nue to l i ve , an d s he c a rr i e s o n a s a Venu s i an .

V I - VENUS : No t a l l o f them , p o s s i b l y , who a r e he re ; o t h e rw i s e , we ' d a l l b e Venu s i an s , r i gh t ?

� R . NEB E L : I am rep re s en t i n g Wa l t e r B . Co o k e h e r e t h i s a f t e rn o on , and w e d o n ' t wan t t o l o s e t h e a c t . L e t ' s g e t ano t h e r qu e s t i on ove r h e re .

Q M i s s Venus , I wou l d l i k e t o a s k you - - my n ame i s No rma G r ay s on - - i f you p ro c l a im t o c ome from ano t h e r p l an e t , I wou l d l i k e t o know i f th e re i s any opp o r t un i ty i n t h e fu ture or far fut u r e of o u r p l an e t s me e t i n g , a n d wh a t is your p u rp o s e com i n g d own h e r e ?

V I - VENUS : Th a t i s two que s t i on s .

Q Ye s .

V I - VENUS : Two fo r t h e p r i c e o f one . We h ave a 2 - fo r - 1 s a l e . You s a i d o u r p l an e t s m e e t i n g . You m e an , f o r i n s t an c e , y o u a re go i n g up t h e r e ?

Q Two p l an e t s m ee t .

MR . NE B E L : The ro c k e t s h ip go i ng up ?

V I - VENUS : No .

Q i t wou l d

I am He l e n I wou l d l i k e t o kn ow h ow l on g d i d i t t ak e f o r h e r t o come d own h e re ?

t o ?

MR . NEBE L : I t ' s a g o o d qu e s t i on .

V I - VENUS : Ac co r d i n g t o your d ay s o r mon t h s , o r m i n e ?

Q Any way t h a t y ou want t o an swe r i t .

V I - VENUS : I t d i dn ' t t ak e v e ry l on g .

MR . NE B E L : C an y o u g i v e us a l i t t l e m o r e s p e c i f i c ?

V I - VENUS : No , c an ' t b e d e f i n i t e . I won ' t b e d e f i n i t e .

Q Won ' t y o u g i ve t h a t i n fo rma t i on ? Why d o y o u n o t wan t

V I - VENUS : No . I d o n ' t t h i n k you a r e g o i n g .

MR . N E B E L : Th e re i s a youn g m an . Come ove r h e re . Wha t

-

i s your n am e ?

Q A l v i n Wh i t e .

MR . NE B E L : Wha t i s your qu e s t i on , Mr . Wh i t e ?

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Q I wou l d l i k e t o know , a c c o r d i n g t o your und e r s t an d i ng , a r e we a l l r e b o rn on t h i s p l an e t ?

V I - VENUS : Reb o rn ? Ye s .

Q I s i t p ry in g , i s t h a t why p eop l e c an ' t l o o k on your s o c i a l s e cur i ty c a r d ?

V I - VENUS : S ay t h e b e g i nn i n g a g a i n . I h ave t h e a n s we r .

ME . N E B E L : Ac t u a l ly , s h e i s r a 1 s 1 n g t h e s ame que s t i on t h a t I r a i s e d a b o u t a s o c i a l s e cu r i t y c ard . Mi s s G r e e n , a c t ua l l y wh a t t o o k p l ac e , t h i s young l a dy c l a im s s h e h a s a c a r d , n o t und e r t h e n ame o f V i - Ve nu s , b u t t h e n am e o f t h e youn g l a dy w h o comm i t t e d s u i c i de . S h e w i l l n o t d ivu l g e th a t t o y o u .

V I - VENUS : Y e s .

Q I wan t t o know h ow c ome you know En g l i s h s o p e r fe c t l y we l l and h ave n o a c c en t .

V I - VENUS : Wha t k i nd o f a c c e n t wou l d you l i k e ?

MR . NE B E L : Th a t i s a Ma r t i an a c c en t . an s we r t h e qu e s t i on .

( L augh t e r . ) P l e a s e

V I - VENUS : F i r s t o f a l l , t h e r e i s t r a i n i n g on Ve nus fo r any c oun t ry t h a t you wan t t o s t udy and l an g u a g e o f a n d fo r wh a t e v e r re a s on you m ay wan t t o s t udy . I f t h a t w e r e n o t s o , any o n e c om i n g from any o t h e r p l an e t t o t h i s o n e wou l d h av e no t roub l e p i c k i n g up Ame r i c an v ib r a t i on s , F rench v i b r a t i on s , wh a t ev e r , an d b e in g ab l e t o s p e ak your l an gua g e .

Q My n am e i s Ma r g a r e t How a r d . Wh a t I wou l d l i k e t o know i s , i s t h i s s o rt o f re i n c a rn a t i on , t h a t s h e t ake s ove r

the o t h e r p e r s on t h a t wa s h e r e ?

MR . NEB E L : I n o t h e r wo r d s , wh a t h app ene d t o y o u , V i v ? I t h i n k i t ' s a ve ry g o o d que s t i on . Th i s l a dy wan t s t o know if t h i s i s wha t m i gh t be r e fe rr e d to as re i n c a rn a t i on , th e f a c t t h a t t h i s y oun g l ady l e ave s , who w a s 2 0 y e a r s o f a g e a t t h e t im e , on Sep t emb e r 2 4 t h , 1 9 6 0 , s h e c omm i t t e d s u i c i de , y o u t o o k ove r . I s t h i s r e i n c a rn a t i on ?

V I - VE NUS : No t i n t h e s en s e t h a t you know i t , o r I am

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a s s um i n g t h a t y o u wou l d b e l i eve i n i t . MR . NE B E L : P l e a s e don ' t a s s ume any th i n g . I t i s a ve ry

l e g i t im a t e que s t i on . Q No , j u s t your i de a o f i t . V I - VE NUS : Re inc a rn a t i on ? Q Tha t ' s r i gh t . V I - VENUS : As you kn ow i t ? Q How do you know how I know i t ? V I - VENUS : You gave m e t h e wo rd .

Q I know my i de a ab o u t i t i s t h at we s t i l l l i ve . V I - VENUS : T o b e b o rn a ga i n ? Q Ye s . Now , t h a t ' s wha t I a m a s k in g y ou . V I - VENUS : We l l , we a r e two s ep a r a t e p e op l e . You s ay

t h i s g i r l l iv e s t h ro u g h me ? Q Y e s . I s t h a t t rue ? V I - VENUS : Y e s ; s h e d i d . Q I s t h a t t ru e t h a t s he l i ve s t h rough you ? V I - VENUS : S h e d i d . Q D i d s h e l iv e t h ro u g h y o u ? Do e s s h e ? V I - VENUS : No , n o l on g e r r i gh t now , huh - uh . Q I n o t h e r w o r d s , th e re i s n o re i n c a rn a t i on ? V I - VENUS : Y e s , t h e r e d e f i n i t e ly i s . Q B u t th i s i s n o t i t ? V I - VE NUS : No . MR . N E B E L : I t h i n k I h ave p a s s e d up s ome p e op l e i n th i s

a re a . Mo s e l ey w i l l p ro b ab l y b e b l ow i n g h i s s t ac k , b e c au s e h e

h a s s om e o t h e r t h in g s f o r y o u . Do you wan t a few m o r e que s t i o n s ? THE AUD I ENCE : Y e s ! ( App l au s e . ) Q I ' d l i k e t o a s k i f y o u a r e awa r e your exp e r i e n c e

b e i n g a Ch r i s t i n t h e p e r s on o f s om e o n e e l s e c an b e a d e qu a t e l y e xp l a i n e d in abno rm a l p sycho l o gy ? ( App l au s e . ) I th ink y o u b e l i ev e wh a t y o u s ay y o u a r e , b u t I t h in k i t ' s s ch i z op h r en i a .

V I - VENUS : Oh , come , now . Q I wou l d l i k e t o kn ow a l s o , wh a t i s your con cep t o f

G o d a n d o f J e s u s Ch r i s t ? MR . NEB E L : F i r s t o f a l l , t h a t ' s ab out a h a l f a do z e n

que s t i on s i n c o rp o r a t e d i n t o o n e t h a t wou l d t ak e a l l a f t e rn o on . V I - VENUS : F i rs t , h e a s k e d m e - -Q Do you b e l i ev e i n G o d ? V I - VENUS : O f c ou r s e , I b e l i eve i n G o d ! Q Wh a t i s y o u r c o n c ep t i on o f G o d ? V I - VENU S : G o d i s M i n d . The re i s On e M i n d . T h a t i s my

c o n c ep t i on . G o d i s Love .

Q I s th e re a G o d ? V I - VENUS : O f c ou r s e , t h e re i s a G o d . You a r e a s k i ng me ? Q Wou l d you de s c r i b e G o d f o r t h i s group ? V I - VE NU S : Phy s i c a l l y ? No , I c anno t d e s c r i be H im phys i ­

c a l ly . Why s h ou l d I h ave t o ? MR . NEB E L : My d e a r l ady , y o u m ay l e ave h e r e r i gh t now ,

y o u don ' t h av e t o do any t h i n g . V I - VENUS : G o o d ! I r e a l i z e t h a t . MR . NE B E L : S o don ' t g e t hu f fy a b o u t i t .

7 4

V I - VE NUS : I am n o t ge t t i n g hu f fy , Mr . Neb e l . I w i l l t e l l y ou why : b e c au s e I cou l d c are l e s s who p e op l e t h i n k I am . I am h e r e an d n o t h i n g w i l l s t op me , and i f I am a fake , you p e op l e are s m a r t , y ou w i l l f i n d out . I f I am o f G o d , wh i ch you a r e , t o o , wh i ch i s t h e p o i n t , n o t h i n g w i l l s t op me from t ry i n g t o h e l p you . I h ave done i t . I h ave b e gun w i th the b o o k t h a t I h ave wr i t t en . (App l aus e . ) No , j us t a mome nt . I t i s n o t about my v i s i t on t h e f ly in g s au c e r and funny l i t t l e g r e e n men c ame out . Th i s i s t o h e lp you . I h ave b e en h e r e t h i s l on g b e c au s e - - i n o rde r t o g i ve you a n e w way o f l iv i n g , a n e w t rut h . I l ive your way s o I s hou l d know why i t do e s n o t w o r k , why y o u c ann o t s u rv ive , b u t y o u c ann o t p a s s t h a t s u rv iv a l o r s u rp a s s i t , an d y ou c an s urp a s s i t . An d man , on E a r t h , do e s n o t h ave t o b e b a s i c a l l y s a d and have moment s o f j oy . An d t h i s i s wh a t I am h e re t o do , an d I don ' t c are wh at y ou t h i n k o f m e , an d I don ' t c are a b o u t a l l t h e s e que s t i on s . D o y o u s ay y ou s t i l l h a v e t o g o t h rough f ac t s and b l a ck an d wh i t e ? An d s o on e r o r l a t e r , wh e n eve ry t h i n g e l s e fa i l s - - f o r g e t ab o u t me - - wh en everyth i n g e l s e fa i l s fo r you , y o u w i l l turn t o G o d , an d you m ay f ind t h i s w i t h out s om e o n e l e ad in g t h e way , and I hop e you do . (App l aus e . )

MR . NEBE L : Wh a t i s your name ? Q E dw i n St e e l e . I am f rom B r o o k l yn . (App l aus e . ) MR . NE B E L : On c e m o r e , a l i t t l e h and f o r B r o o k lyn . (App l au s e Q You s a i d you b e l i eve i n G o d . Do you b e l i eve i n the

D e v i l ? V I - VENUS : No .

Q Why n o t ? V I - VE NUS : B e c aus e G o d i s k in d , h e wou l d n o t put any t h i ng - ­

t h e dev i l i s i n man ' s own m in d and i s ev i l . G o d i s abs o l u t e . Th e re i s n o t h i n g opp o s i n g t h a t , e x c ep t we are i n

Q T h e n we a r e a l l w r o n g h e re ab out He l l ? V I - VENUS : Ye ah . Th e re i s n o He l l . How c an you b e l i eve

in a G o d who wou l d wan t to pun i s h p e op l e ? Q You th i n k we a r e pun i s he d enough j us t by be i n g h e r e ? V I - VE NUS : That i s wh a t you s a i d . You face i t . MR . N EB E L : He was r e f e r r i n g t o b e i n g i n Manha t t an . Q M R . Q MR .

Q

R i gh t , s i r . NEB E L : Wh a t i s y o u r n ame ?

C l a i re Ma t t h ew s , Conn e c t i cut . N E B E L : Wh a t i s your que s t i on ?

I ' d l i k e t o kn ow i f s h e h a s any from Venu s .

p ro o f t h a t s h e came

V I - VENUS : Wha t wou l d be p ro o f t o you ? Q C an you de s c r i b e Venu s ? V I - VE NUS : Th a t wou l dn ' t b e p r o o f t o you . MR . NE B E L : I t h i n k i t ' s an un fa i r que s t i on . Unfo rtun a t e l y ,

we don ' t h ave an awfu l l on g t ime . Sup p o s i n g you t ak e a m i nut e , w i t hout t e l l i n g u s ab o u t the wonde r fu l p e op l e , t e l l u s about one s t re e t i n the t own you l ive i n . Wha t do t h e bu i l d i n g s l o o k l i k e ?

7 5

V I - VENUS : Wh a t I w i l l b u i l d i n t h i s m an ' s c a s e i s n o t wh a t I w i l l b u i l d in t h i s ge n t l eman ' s c a s e . Wha t e v e r I s ay y ou w i l l n o t b e l i ev e me .

MR . NE BE L : Th i s i s a l ady . V I - VE NUS : No , th i s g e n t l eman h e re a s k e d me i f I fo o l e d

C o o k . HR . NEB E L : A l l r i gh t .

· V I - VENUS : Wh at I am s ay i n g , wha t ev e r I de s c r i b e , t h e s t re e t , I c ou l d de s c r i b e any one , but t h e p o i n t i s the p e op l e who d o n o t wan t t o b e l i eve me , n o t h i n g I s ay h e re now - - they h e a rd t h e s how he re l a s t n i gh t .

Q Wh a t ab out t h e re s t o f u s ? We m i gh t b e l i eve i t . V I - VENUS : Re a l l y ? Wou l d y ou ? O s K . Q My n ame i s E s t h e r I ' d l i k e t o know about

your b o o k . C an you t e l l me h ow o r whe r e we c an g e t i t o r even i f i t i s ava i l ab l e ?

V I - VENUS : I t i s n o t ava i l ab l e y e t , no . Q W i l l i t b e ? V I - VENUS : Ye s , o f cours e , i t w i l l b e . Q Ye s t e rd ay on t h e p ro gr am you made s ome n o i s e , and

you s ay you c ou l d s p e ak t h a t l an gu a g e , t o o . Can you s p e ak Venu s i an ?

V I - VENUS : Th i s w a s a s k e d o f m e o n t h e p r o g ram , ye s . And t h e n o i s e you h e ard was - - (unrep o r t ab l e j umb l e ) - - and I c an s ay t o you t h a t i s Venu s i an , and h ow do you know whe t h e r I w a s r i gh t o r wron g ? Ag a i n , t h a t i s s om e th i n g I c ou l d fake .

Q Cou l d you r e a d a l on g p a rag rap h i n Venu s i an an d s e e i f you c an rep e a t i t a g a i n i n Venu s i an ?

V I - VENUS : Re a d a l on g p a ra grap h i n - - oh , you m e an from Eng l i s h to Venu s i an ? No , I c an ' t do t h a t � ( L aug h t e r . )

Q Wi l l you l e t me l o o k a t your p a l m ? MR . NEB E L : I t ' s imp o s s ib l e t o l o o k a t t h e l ady ' s p a lm .

Do you wan t h e r t o h o l d i t up th e re , o r do you wan t t o l o o k a t i t c l o s e ?

Q L o o k at i t c l o s e . MR . NEB E L : Do you wan t a da t e ? A ft e rwards , when the

c onven t i on is ove r , there are many p e op l e ou t t h e re t h a t w i l l i n t e rv i ew h e r . I am sure i f y o u w i l l arran ge wi th Mr . Mo s e l ey y o u c an l o o k a t h e r p a l m . Wou l d you c are t o l o o k a t m in e i n t h e m e an t ime ?

Q No . Q W i l l you a l l ow your s e l f t o b e hyp n o t i z e d ? MR . NE B E L : I w i l l answe r t h e que s t i on . No .

V I - VENUS : Th e re a s on why n o t i s t h a t wh a t I am t ry in g t o d o i s t o o p e n m in ds , and imme d i a t e l y I have l iv e d h e re and I h av e h ad i t c l o s e d f o r me , an d I h ave l e t eve ry o t h e r p e r s on i n f l ue n c e me and put n e g a t i v e t h i n g s i n my m in d , and a s s o on as I g e t h e a l t hy , de ve l op i n g t h i s s i x th s en s e a g a in , r i gh t away t o p rove t o you t h a t I am wh a t I re a l ly am , t h a t s ome th i ng c om e s i n t o m y m i n d a n d s t a r t s t o make s e n s e , b e c au s e i t mayb e w i l l make y o u b e l i eve who I am , b u t i t wou l d n o t

r

7 6

s e rve the purp o s e . Wh a t I am t ry i n g t o s ay t o you : t h a t you s h ou l d n o t l e t anyo ne i n your m in d .

MR . NEB E L : I f you b e l i eve t h i s s t o ry , o r re gardl e s s o f whe t h e r y o u b e l i eve t h e s t o ry , may w e h ave a hand , p l e as e , fo r t h e l a dy ? (App l au s e . ) ( B o o s . )

V I - VENUS : Th an k you .

ME . NE B E L : I j us t want h e r t o know t h e b o o s are f o r me and t h e app l au s e i s f o r h e r .

An d n ow , a y oun g man , s t i l l ve ry youn g , t h a t I me t j u s t about 1 0 y e a r s a g o wh en w e f i r s t s t a rt e d t o d o t h e s h ow i n C a r t e re t , New J e r s ey . I h ave t o l d t h i s s t o ry m any t ime s ; I w i l l b o re y o u w i t h i t f o r about a m i nu t e o r two .

Wh e n I f i rs t went out t o C a rt e re t , New J e rs ey , wh i ch i s t h e t r an s m i t t e r f o r WOR , V i rg i n i a B e lmon t , a v e ry de l i gh t fu l l ady , a ve ry c l o s e f r i end o f m in e , a t t h a t t ime I d i dn ' t know - - s he own s the p e t s hop , and she t o l d me that a l i t t l e p a rty re a l ly , wh en we u s e the word " c o ck t a i l p a rty" we au t omat i c a l ly t h i nk o f a l c o ho l i c b ev e r a ge s , but I c an as s u re you the p e op l e wh o a t t en d e d t h a t p arty d o n o t ge t i nvo lve d w i t h a l c o h o l . I know t h em a l l . Th ey a r e a l l de l i gh t fu l p e op l e . An d t h e hono r ­e d gue s t - - a c t ua l l y , t h e h o s t e s s h app en e d t o b e Mrs . Ro o s eve l t , an d t h e o t h e r gue s t was a man by t h e name o f G e o r g e Van T a s s e l . He c ome s from G i ant Ro c k A i rp o r t , an d he own s t h a t a i rp o r t . The r e i s a huge r o c k t h e r e . I t i s about four s t o r i e s in h e i gh t , and unde rn e a th t h e r o c k t h e re is a man - made c ave , an d h e h o l ds s e an c e s i n th i s c ave . He t a l k s t o Mart i an s and Venu s i an s and p eop l e who h ave p as s e d on . That i s h i s s t o ry .

Whe n I f i r s t i n t e rv i ewed h im , I h a d neve r he a rd any o f t h e s e s t o r i e s , an d that w a s p re t ty w i l d , an d I th ink you w i l l a g r e e w i t h me . I s a i d , "Why do t h e S t a t e s p e op l e go a l l the way t o C a l i fo rn i a and why do y o u c om e a l l t h e way to t e l l the s t o ry ? ' ' An d h e s a i d , ' ' J ohn , i t ' s h app ened r i gh t h e re in New J e r s ey . " He t o l d me ab out a youn g man , a s i gn p a i n t e r in H i gh B r i d g e , New J e rs ey - - he d i dn ' t t e l l me h i s n ame - - and he s a i d , "We l l , I cann o t d i vu l g e the name . " No , " I w i l l b r i n g h im o u t t om o rrow n i ght , " and h e d i d , and h e b rought o u t Howa rd Nen g e r .

Now , I h ave t a l k e d w i t h Howard Men ge r - - I don ' t t h in k I w i l l e xa g ge r a t e whe n I s ay o n 2 0 0 s hows . T h a t i s n o t t o o many whe n y o u t a l k about L o n g Jo hn s hows . And I don ' t t h i n k anyb o dy h a s eve r t o l d a s g r e a t a s t o ry a s H owa rd . Y o u may buy i t or you may n o t . And he h a s a l ove ly w i fe , Conn i e Men ge r . I wou l d l i k e a n i c e h an d f o r t he s e two p e op l e . Th i s i s Howa r d ; t he w i fe i s t he b l on d . Al l r i ght . ( App l aus e . ) Howa rd and C onn i e w i l l t ake ove r a t t h i s p o in t . G e e , you

have g o t go o d i e s t h i s a f t e rn o on . To o , John Ke e l w i l l b e u p he re , I van S ande rs on , a n d many o t h e rs .

Thank you ve ry muc h . I t ' s b e e n n i c e s e e i n g you . ( App l aus e . )

( HOWARD MENGER i s the mo s t famo us o f the Ea s t C o as t

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f l y i n g s auc e r c o n t act e e s . He h a s wr i t t en a b o o k , p ub l i s he d b y G ray B a rk e r , c a l l e d " F rom Ou t e r S p a c e t o You , " h a s made a L P r e c o rd c a l l e d ' 'Mu s i c from Ano th e r P l an e t , " and has made nume rous rad i o an d t e l ev i s i on app e a ran c e s th roughout t h e y e a r s . He i s curre n t l y w o rk i n g on a new b o o k t o b e e n t i t l e d , " The H i g h B r i dg e I n c i de n t , " wh i ch w i l l g i ve t h e " s t o ry b eh i n d the s t o ry " i n re g a r d t o h i s cont rove rs i a l c on t a c t s . I n 1 9 5 8 h i s farm in H i gh B r i dge , N . J . , was h o s t to t h e on ly Eas t Co as t s auc e r c onve n t i on t o p re c e de t he p re s ent o n e - a n event wh i ch w a s m a d e s u c ce s s fu l ent i re ly t h rough the e ffo rt s o f the Long John Pro g ram . I n 1 9 6 2 , Men ge r and h i s wi fe move d t o S e b a s t i an , F l o r i da , whe re h e h a s c on t i nue d wo rk on h i s curre n t i nt e re s t -t h e c o n s t ruc t i on o f mode l f l y i n g s auce rs and o th e r dev i c e s wh i ch op e ra t e b y me ans o f ent i re ly n e w p r in c ip l e s and t e ch ­n i que s , o f h i s own inven t i on . )

MR . HOWARD MENGER : He l l o , fun - s e e k e rs . I am very n e rvou s , l ad i e s and gen t l emen . Th i s i s the f i rs t t i me t h a t I h ave h a d t h e p r iv i l e ge t o t a l k t o s uch a l a rge group a s t h i s o n e i n app ro x i ma t e l y 1 0 ye a r s . I have s o rt o f re t i r e d f rom the a c tual l e c t u r i n g s p e e ch e s an d mee t in g a l o t of p e op l e fo r s ome t ime o I am i n a d i f fe rent t yp e o f re s e arch at the p re s ent t ime . I have op ene d a s ma l l c o rp o ra t i on i n Ve ro B e ach , F l o r i da . I t i s a n e l e c t ro n i c t yp e o f bus i ne s s . A s you p rob ab ly know by now , I have b e en s o r t o f an i nven t o r and ama t e u r s c i e n t i s t s in c e 1 9 5 2 , wh en I wa s c on t a c t e d by i n d i v i dua l s who c l a i me d tha t t h e y h a d c ome from o the r p l an e t s , n o t n e c e s s a r i l y f rom our own s o l a r s y s t em , but not t o o far f rom w i t hout our s o l ar s y s t em and j u s t out on t h e out s i de p e r i me t e r .

Thi s c o rp o rat i on w i l l b e manu f ac t u r i n g advanc e d t yp e s o f e l e c t ron i c e qu i pmen t . Any one wh o i s i n t e re s t e d o r any p e op l e t h a t a re i n t e re s t e d in ge t t i n g b ro chure s on t he t yp e o f app a r atus wh i ch we a re manufact u r in g , they a re we l c ome t o wr i t e Howard Men ge r , Po s t O f f i c e B o x 1 4 0 5 , Ve ro B e a c h , F l o r i da �

Amo n g t he s e p ac k a g e s o r un i t s wh i ch we are manu fac t u r i n g i s a p o r t ab l e p ow e r p a ck ; in c as e t h e p owe r fa i l s in the are a , a f am i l y wou l d h ave l i gh t i n t he home , wo u l d l i gh t up the who l e hous e fo r a p e r i o d o f 4 0 hour s , 90 hours , 2 day s , de p en ­d i n g on how much t hey wan t e d t o s p e n d fo r t h i s p a r t i cu l a r typ e o f s e rv i c e . The re a re a l s o s ma l l un i t s up t o 1 8 0 0 wa t t s A C 1 1 0 - 1 2 0 vo l t s , 6 0 cyc l e , 1 2 vo l t s D C fo r c amp e rs , f i s he r ­men , c on t rac t o rs , c i v i l de fen s e , p o l i ce o We have qui t e a few o r de rs from p o l i c e an d h o s p i t a l s . Ho sp i t a l , p o l i c e o f f i c e r

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and b o a t mo de l s aut om a t i c a l ly g o on when t h e p ower g o e s o f f . You n e ve r have t o touch i t . I t wi l l b e on fo r 4 0 , 9 0 hours , mayb e 2 d ay s , dep e n d i n g on wh i ch one you ge t . I j us t t hought you m i gh t be i n t e r e s t e d i n t h i s .

B e fo re I ge t i n t o the me a t o f t h e me s s a g e t h a t we are a c t u a l l y b r i n g i n g y o ti , t he re are two o r t h re e t h i n g s I wou l 4 l i ke t o ge t o ut h e re i n fron t o f y o u n i c e p e op l e o The f i rs t t h i n g I wou l d l i k e t o s ay i s t h a t I t h in k t h a t L o n g J ohn Neb e l de s e rve s a l o t o f c re d i t fo r wh a t he h a s b e e n do i � g ove r the ye a r s . (Ap p l aus e . ) He re a l ly i s g r e a t G An d a s f a r a s J ame s W . Mo s e l ey an d h i s wonde r fu l s t a ff , G ray B a rke r , T imo t hy B e c k l ey , a l l t h e many p e op l e t o o nume rous t o men t i on t h a t a re

w�k in g wi t h J im , I t h i n k t hey h ave done a fan t a s t i c j ob h e r e t o g e t t h e i n f o rma t i on o u t . Wha t do you t h i n k , fo l k s ? (Ap ­p l au s e . )

No mat t e r wh a t type o f conven t i on a man p l an s t o ho l d , wh e t h e r i t b e a s t r i c t l y s c i en t i f i c convent i on o r a c i rcus type , re g a rd l e s s o f wh a t t ype , I n o t i c e that the re are f r i n ge ­a re a group s t h a t c ome i n an d s o r t o f s p o i l wh a t the o r i g in a l p l an m i gh t h ave b e e n , a n d t h i s i s wh a t I wou l d l i ke t o t a l k ab out n OW e

I don ' t know wh e t h e r mo s t o f y o u p e op l e know t h i s o r n o t , but I us e d t o b e a memb e r o f t h e N a t i on a l Inve s t i ga t i ve Com­m i t t e e on Ae r i a l Phenome n a , Wa s h i n g t o n , D . C . You wi l l n o t i ce t h a t t h i s n ame i s ve ry imp re s s ive - - Wa s h in g t on , D . C . I wou l d l i k e t o s t a t e t h at t h i s o r g an i z at i on i s n o t an o ff i c i a l o r gan i z a t i on . Anyone c an g o t o Wa s h i n gt o n , D . C . , op en up a l i t t l e h o l e - in - th e - w a l l o f f i ce an d s t a r t an i nve s t i g a t i ve group on ae r i a l p henomen a and h ave ma i l in g l i s t s , e t c e t e r a .

I wou l d l i k e t o t e l l y o u wh a t h app e n e d t o me in Ve ro B e a c h , F l o r i da , wh i l e we we re p l ann i n g a l a rge c o nven t i on s uch a s th i s one , wi t h a ve ry s e r i ous n o t e - - a ve ry s e r i ous n o t e ! We we re app r o a ch i n g t h i s i n a s e r i ous mann e r , wh i ch I t h i nk i t s h o u l d b e . We h a d p e op l e c ome i n t h a t were c om i n g from NASA , N a t i on a l Ae ron aut i c s an d Sp ace Adm i n i s t ra t i on , t h e re w e r e p e op l e who w e r e c om i n g t o s p e ak from C ap e Kenn e dy . I had s ome e n g i ne e rs com i n g from B o e i n g E n g i ne e r i n g up in Co c o a B e a c h , I h a d a l e t t e r from the G ove rn o r of F l o r i da , the Hon o r ab l e G ove rn o r Burn s o I h ave h a d l e t t e rs from the F l o r i da L an d Commi s s i on . Now , do t he s e s oun d l i ke k o o k i e p e op l e t o you ? N o , t hey d o n o t !

I h a d p l anne d t o b u i l d ano t h e r c ra f t app roxima t e ly 4 fe e t i n d i ame t e r . I n e ve r f i n i s h e d . I wi l l t e l l you why . I wi l l t e l l you wh a t h app e n e d . Th i s 4 - fo o t mode l wa s t o b e rad i o c on t ro l l e d . I t i s app rox ima t e ly one - t h i rd c omp l e t e d . B e c aus e t h e c onven t i o n d i d n o t g o o f f , I d i d n o t f in i s h i t . I d i dn ' t h ave t h e fund s t o do i t . I t i s a 4 - fo o t r a d i o c on t ro l l e d

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m o de l , op e ra t e d ve ry n i c e ly . I t wou l d h ave b e en the fourth one I wou l d h a ve b u i l t . I t was c a l l e d t he X - 4 . The l a s t one I f l ew i n 1 9 6 1 . You w i l l s e e it on the f i lm , if I c an ge t the e n g i n e e r - - the f i lm i s n ' t g o i n g on y e t , but when i t does , i f I c an g e t t h e e n g i ne e r t o s t op i t , you w i l l s e e i t i n f l i gh t , t he X - 3 in 1 9 6 1 , ent i re ly e l e c t r i c a l , ve ry l i t t l e n o i s e , and , i n fac t , f l y i n g i n t h e f i e l d you c ou l dn ' t h e a r t he n o i s e at a l l . I f y o u c an i ma g in e , i f we c o u l d get t h i s th i n g go i n g - ­i n c i de n t a l l y , i t c r a s he d i n t o a t re e and i t wa s de s t roy e d , b u t i t d i d f l y , i t f l ew qu i t e a way s . I n 1 9 5 2 the X - 2 f l ew app ro x i ­m a t e ly 3 5 0 m i l e s , c ra s he d on t h e Oh i o - Penn s y lvan i a b o rde r , was r e s p on s i b l e fo r many , m any s auc e r rep o rt s o f l an d i n g s and l i t t l e g re e n men .

Now , o f cour s e , you know , we are j us t p e op l e . The re are a l o t of p e op l e t h at do e mb e l l i s h on s o - c a l l e d s i ght i n g s . I n m any c a s e s , whe n t h e y o n l y s e e a l i ght go i n g by o r a s i l v e ry c ra f t , t h i s m i gh t act ua l l y b e an e x t ra t e r re s t r i a l c r a f t ; they w i l l s ay that i t h a s come down and they have t al k e d w i t h t he p e op l e . Now , t h i s i s a n o rma l , human t h in g . I h ave me t up w i t h many o f t he s e c a s e s . But i n t h i s c a s e i t w a s n o t an e x t rat e rr e s t r i a l c ra f t , i t w a s one o f my own . And I d i d no t make i t p ub l i c a t t h e t ime . I n fa c t , I d i dn ' t make t h i s p ub l i c , I be l i e ve , un t i l 1 9 6 4 . I wro t e t o J im Mo s e l ey , I b e l i e ve i t was 1 9 6 4 , an d t o l d h im my who l e s t o ry .

Bu t t o ge t t o t h i s N I CAP s i tua t i on he re , t h i s i s wh a t h ap p e n e d . We wou l d have h a d a ve ry , v e ry s u c c e s s fu l c onven t i o n , g o o d s p e ake rs f rom a l l ove r t h e coun t ry , from the wo r l d , i n f a c t - - i n f a c t , my pub l i s h e r in F rance , the ve ry wonde r ful man , Dr . C ro u z e t , an d h i s l ove l y w i fe m i gh t have come . I go t a l e t t e r f rom N I CAP - - o r I s aw a copy o f i t ; a c t u a l l y , t hey d i dn ' t s en d me a l e t t e r , t hey s en t the l e t t e r t o v a r i ous o r gan i z at i o n s i n t ha t a re a , and t h e l e t t e r that r e a l l y hurt wa s t h e l e t t e r t h a t was w r i t t en t o Co l one l A . T . J o r dan , Re t i re d , who i s the C i ty Man a ge r o f the l i t t l e t own c a l l e d S e b a s t i an .

S e b a s t i an h a s app ro x i ma t e ly 9 3 2 p e op l e , a sma l l t own , but the re a s o n I p i ck e d S e b a s t i an f o r th i s c onven t i on was b e c au s e it had an e x c e l l ent a i rp o rt ve ry c l o s e by an d a l a rge b u i l d i n g t o hous e t h re e t ime s a s many p e op l e a s I am l o o k in g a t r i gh t n ow . I t w ou l d h ave b e en ve ry s im i l a r t o t h e one that I he l d i n 1 9 5 8 , I be l i eve it w a s , i n New Je rs ey , an d I t h i nk many o f you e n j oye d t h i s conven t i on i n New J e rs ey .

Now , R i c h a rd Ha l l , who i s one o f the d i re ct o rs o f N I CAP , c l a ime d t ha t th i s wa s a c i rcus . R i c h a r d H a l l f rom N I CAP s en t Co l on e l A . T . J o r dan , t h e C i ty Man age r o f S e b a s t i an , t h i s l e t t e r , and I hop e y o u w i l l b e a r w i th me , and I am g o i n g t o r e a d t h i s l e t t e r , b e c aus e t h i s c an h appen t o you ! I b e l i e ve t h a t e ve n J im Mo s e l ey h a s h a d s ome p rob l ems w i t h N I CAP .

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Th i s i s t he l e t t e r t h a t R i c h ard Ha l l s en t t o Co l on e l Jo rdan i n S e b a s t i an wh i ch s p o i l e d t he who l e c onven t i on . I n c i de nt a l ly , t he t own sp e op l e are s t i l l w i t h me , the counc i l ­men an d s u ch Q I n c i dent a l ly , I w a s runn i n g fo r Coun c i l man a t t h e t ime mys e l f . They a r e s t i l l wi th me , a n d they s t i l l wan t a c onven t i on o But i t i s a mat t e r o f fun d s , s o I t h i n k , ac tua l ly , we w i l l h ave one , and you wi l l know ab out i t , b e c au s e I w i l l adve r t i s e i t in S auc e r News , and we w i l l get t ha t X - 4 i n t h e a i r , an d eve ry b o dy w i l l see i t s oone r o r l a t e r . (App l aus e . ) He re i s t h e l e t t e r � Th i s i s S ep t e mb e r 1 8 th , 1 9 6 5 e

"De a r Co l on e l Jo rdan :

"You r s i s t h e t h i rd l e t t e r we have r e c e i ve d from c i t i e s i n F l o r i da wh i ch h ave b ee n app roache d b y Howa rd Menge r . I t g i ve s m e g r e a t p l e a s ure t o l e arn t h at h e i s hav i n g d i ff i cu l ty f in d i n g s p on s o rs h ip c T o b e g i n w i t h , Mr . Men ge r was one o f app rox i ma t e l y 5 , 0 0 0 a s so c i at e memb e r s w e h a d a t t h e t ime a s o f 1 9 5 8 . H e was s ub s equent l y dropp e d from memb e rs h ip o He h e l d c i r c u s - l i k e convent i on s of t a l l - t a l e t e l l e rs , e ach t ry ­i n g t o o u t do the o t he r i n e xt ravagant c l a ims o f s o j ourn i n g w i t h s p a c emen i n the v i c i n i t y o f H i gh B r i dg e , New Je r s ey � "

T a l l - t a l e t e l l e rs ! One o f t h em was a t e a che r t e ach i n g i n P r in c e t on , N e w Je r s e y , o n e o f my b e s t w i tne s s e s . I don ' t t h i n k h e wa s a t a l l - t a l e t e l l e r , I t h ink h e w a s t e l l in g t he t ru t h . One w a s an e l e ct r i c a l e n g ine e r , a ve ry re s p e c t e d �an in the a re a . I don ' t t h i nk h e wa s a t a l l - t a l e t e l l e r ; I t h ink h e t o l d t he t ru t h i n wh at he s aw . And t h e re we re app rox i ma te ­l y 7 w i tne s s e s t o wha t I h a d s e e n , and I t h i n k at t he t ime I h a d mo re w i tne s s e s t o wha t h a d h ap p e n e d t h an any one e l s e in

t h e f i e l d a t t h e t ime , an d p r oo f , s p e c imens and me t a l l i c s p e c i ­mens an d many o t he r t h i n gs , i n c l ud i n g p h o t o g raphs . I w i l l go on w i t h the l e t t e r :

"Mr . Men ge r c l a ime d s p a cemen c on t ac t e d h i m on h i s p ro p e r t y . " T h a t i s t h e t rut h o That i s t he G o d ' s t rut h . They d i d . "He o ff e r e d p h o t o g raph s a s p ro o f . " Y e s , I d i d o They we re darn g o o d o n e s , t o o . "They we re obv i ous f ak e s , " h e s ays h e re . He s a i d , "They we re p h o t-o-grap-h s o£ -p a int i ng s " - - p a i n t i n g s , m i n d you ! He go e s o n s ay i n g , "As I re c a l l , he g o t i n t o t roub l e wi t h the F C C f o r i l l e g a l ly op e ra t i n g a gene ra t o r o n h i s p rop e rt y " - - an o the r f a l s eh o o d ; t h i s i s n o t t rue - - "wh i ch s ome o f us t h ou gh t m i ght b e re l at e d t o t he e l e ct r i c a l phenomena , f l a s h i n g l i gh t s , e t c e t e ra , s e en by the cur i ous and o f fe re d by Meng e r a s p ro o f of h i s c l a ims o "

Mr . Ha l l g o e s on and s ay s , " Sub s e quen t ly , Mr . Men g e r c l a ime d t o h ave a po t a t o f r om the moon , neve r o f fere d fo r ana l y s i s , an d s o l d a r e co rd a l b um purp o r t i n g t o be mus i c g i ven t o h i m b y ext ra t e rre s t r i a l s o Aft e r l i s t e n i n g t o i t , i t i s my c on c l us i on t h a t the e x t ra te rre s t r i a l s ough t t o s t udy

, {

a l i t t l e mu s i c � " A l l r i gh t , t h a t ' s h i s op i n i o n , bu t I d i s a g re e w i t h h im o

8 0

A s far a s t h e p o t a t o f rom the moon , I n e ve r s a i d i t w a s f rom the moon . The c ra ft t h at l an de d i n t he a re a o f H i gh B r i dg e , New Je r s ey , s a i d when t he p e op l e s t epp e d out - ­

i nc i de n t a l l y , I had many w i tn e s s e s - - t hey s h ow e d us i n t o the c ra f t , s howe d u s s p e c i me n s of var i ous fo o d s wh i ch t hey p re ­s e rve for t he i r f l i gh t s t h rough s p ace 0 They don ' t h ave r e f r i ge ra t o rs � They use a typ e of p re s e rv a t i on ent i re ly unkn own t o us , b u t we cou l d c a l l i t dehydrat i on � But dehy ­d r a t i on , s u ch as p o t a to ch i p s and t h i n g s l i ke th i s , are fa r l e s s t han wh a t t h i s p ro c e s s wa s .

L e t me go a l i t t l e fu rt h e r i n t o the p ro ce s s . They c o l l ap s e d the mo l e cu l ar s t ru c t ure of p o t at o e s , c a r ro t s , ve ge t ab l e s , e t c e t e ra , t o t h e p o i n t whe re they we re a b o u t o n e - four t h t he s i z e o f t h e o r i g in a l s p e c imen . When t hey are re ady t o h ave a me a l , t hey reve r s e t he p roce s s w i th t he i r m a ch i n e ry , an d I don ' t unde rs t an d how i t work s , but i t do e s wo rk , b e l i e ve me , and i t t ake s up ve ry l i t t l e s p a c e . A s I s a i d b e fo re , they don ' t h ave re f r i ge ra t o rs . The man th a t h an de d me t he s e s p e c imens s a i d t h a t h e h a d j us t come from the Mo on . He d i dn ' t s ay - it was a Moon p o t at o . A s far a s I know , i t m i ght h ave b e e n g rown anywhe r e , I don ' t know , but not on t h i s p l an e t , of that I am s ure .

M r . Ha l l c on t i nue s w i t h h i s l e t t e r : " I a l mo s t fo rg o t t o men t i on t h a t Mr o Me n g e r d iv o rc e d h i s f i r s t w i fe , a n d h e s a i d h e mar r i e d a Venus i an o " Th i s i s ano the r l i e . I n e v e r s a i d I marr i e d a Venu s i an . My l ov e l y w i fe , whom I l ove v e ry d e a r ly , I h av e b e en m a rr i e d t o 9 ye ars . I have t wo wonde rful b o y s . My o l de s t b oy i s 8 . He c ame out t op s i n h i s c l a s s ; he i s ve ry i nt e l l i ge n t . He s t udi e s mus i c , an d h e i s g i v i n g two re c i t a l s t h i s s umme r . Th i s i s my l ove l y w i fe . Do e s s h e l o o k l i ke a Venus i an ? S he m i ght l o o k l i k e a Venus i an , ye s , I w i l l adm i t i t , b u t s h e wa s b o rn i n E l i z ab e th , New Je rs ey , b e l i eve me . ( App l au s e . )

Mr . Ha l l con t i nue s , "To put i t m i l dl y , we comp l e t e l y d i s ap p rove o f Mr . Men g e r and h i s a c t i v i t i e s . S in c e re l y , R i c h a r d Ha l l , Ac t i n g D i re c t o r , N I CAP . "

We l l , I w i l l s ay r i gh t now i n fron t o f a l l o f you , Mr . Ha l l - - an d I h o p e he i s out i n t he aud i en c e - - Mr . Ha l l , you are a ' l i ar . I c ou l d th i nk o f a few o t he r words , t o o , but I wou l d r a t he r n o t ment i on i t i n f ront o f t he s e n i ce p e op l e . ( App l au s e an d mu rmu rs e )

Now , I wro t e a l e t t e r t o the ve ry wonde r fu l C o l one l Jo rdan . I w i s h h e we re_ · ·h e re $ He h a d s ome e xp e r i en c e s h ims e l f � I w ro t e t h i s l e t t e r t 6 C o l one l J o r dan i n an s we r t o Mr . R i chard

8 1

H a l l - - t h e Hono rab l e Mr . R i cha rd H al l .

( Re p o r t e r ' s No t e : Al t hough Mr o Men g e r d i d n o t r e a d the e n t i re l e t t e r a t t h e c onvent i on , by p e rm i s s i on o f Mr . Men ge r , i t i s cop i e d i n i t s e n t i re ty h e re , w i t h int e rp o l a ­t i o n s wh i ch w e r e made b y Mr . Men g e r a t t h e conve n t i o n i n s e r t e d i n t he i r p rop e r p l ac e s . )

" S e p t emb e r 1 8 , 1 9 6 5 "A . T . J o rdan , Co l on e l , A . U o S o ( Re t $ ) " C i ty C l e rk , C i t y o f S e b a s t i an " Se b a s t i an , F l o r i da

" De a r Co l on e l Jo rdan :

" F rank ly , I don ' t s e e why I have t o be p l ac e d i n a p o s i t i on o f de fen d i n g my s e l f w i t h re gard t o the r i d i cu l ou s cha r ge s made i n l e t t e rs re c e ive d from N I CAP an d C i v i l i an S au c e r I n t e l l i ge n c e . Ne i th e r o rgan i z a t i on h o l ds any auth o r i ty n o r q ua l i f i e d i n d iv i dua l s t o make s uch j udgmen t s on a fe l l ow c i t i z en . I t c ome s t o me from a s ource in New Y o rk t h a t Jul e s St . G e rm a i n i s i n b ac k o f C i v i l i an S auce r I n t e l l i ge n c e , wh i ch n a t u ra l ly woul d e xp l a i n anyt h i n g t h ey woul d have t o s ay G I am mo re i n t e re s t e d i n whom i s in b a c k o f S t . G e rma i n ? Howeve r , i t a l s o come s t o my at t en t i on that h i s d i s b e l i e f i n UFOs was not op e rat i n g i n ful l s t ren g t h when h e took t h e c a s e of a man wh o was kn own t o h ave c l a ime d c on t a c t s w i t h e x t ra t e r re s t r i a l s ; o f cour s e , I s upp o s e the b i g , fat fe e o f a $ 4 0 , 0 0 0 . 0 0 s e t t l e ­men t h a d n o t h i n g t o do w i t h i t ; a ft e r wh i ch he t urne d a roun d and s ue d h i s own c l i en t . H e ent e re d my home o n fal s e p re t e n s e s w i t h a h i dden t ap e re c o rde r i n h i s b r i e fc a s e and que s t i on e d a l l w i tn e s s e s t o UFO s i gh t i n g s ( i n H i gh B r i dge ) , p romi s i n g t o g ive me cop i e s o f the s t at emen t s fo r my own f i l e . I h ave ye t t o r e c e i ve c op i e s o f t h e s e s t a t e men t s wh i ch c o rrob o ra t e d my rep o rt . Aft e r s ev e r a l ye ars of h ar a s sment an d de r i s i on , I doub t whe t h e r the s e w i t ne s s e s wo ul d t e l l an yone o f wh at t hey s aw .

" I n re fe r e n c e t o N I CAP , N at i on a l I n v e s t i ga t i ve Comm i t t e e o n Ae r i a l Phenomena - the n ame s p e ak s fo r i t s e l f - i t de a l s s o l e l y i n ' ae r i a l p h e n omen a ' - o n ce a p h e n omenon l ands and c an b e i den t i fi e d a s a c ra ft ( a l i en o r p e rhap s E a rt h - made ) t hey want n o p ar t o f i t . " Do you un de r s t an d t h a t , my g o o d p e op l e ? On c e a c r a f t l an ds - - t h e y don ' t h ave t o s tep o u t i f t h i s c ra f t l an ds an d p e op l e t ak e a p i c t u re o f i t , N I CAP won ' t t a l k to you . B l o op s an d b l e e p s in t h e s ky , hu r ry an d s e n d i n your p ho t o g raph s . As l on g as y ou don ' t p rove t h a t t he re are e x t rat e r re s t r i a l b e i n gs c o m i n g he re t o t h i s p l an e t , gre a t ! I w i l l go on w i t h t h e l e t t e r . "Th i s o r g an i z a t i on h a s h a d i t s tip s a n d down s a n d i n t e rn a l uphe ava l s . F o rme r Adm i n i s t ra t o r - T r e a s u re r , Ro s e Hacke t t C ampbe l l , l e ft i n d i s gus t . At t a c h e d t o th i s l e t t e r i s a copy o f a n e d i to r i a l

• •. ·� H .. '!:,· ,.. .., • •

8 2

rep o rt on N I CAP by ano the r o rg an i z at i on de d i c a t i n g t ime an d s e rv i c e i n rep o r t i n g on a l l UFO rep o r t s . I t was wr i t t en by Jame s W . Mo s e l ey , e di t o r of S auce r News , a l on g - t ime UFO re s e arch e r an d an t i que de a l e r f rom F o r t L e e , N . J �

"Ju s t fo r t he re c o r d I am go i n g t o t ake Mr . 'R i cl).ard H a l l ' s

l e t t e r s t ep b y s t ep o I n c i de n t a l l y , I doub t whe t he r Don a l d Keyh o e woul d h ave wr i t t en s uch a l e t t e r ; a l t hough t he re a re i s s ue s on wh i ch Don a l d Keyh o e an d I do no t a g re e , o u r go a l s a re s im i l a r - t o i n fo rm an d p re p a re t h e pub l i c - and our p a s t c o rre s p on de n c e h a s b e en c o rd i al .

" Now t o Mr . Ha l l ' s v i c i ous l e t t e r : He de s c r i b e s the F i rs t E a s t Co a s t Sp ace Convent i on as ' a c i rcus - l i ke c onven t i on ' . . " He p rob ab l y w i l l de s c r i b e t h i s one the s ame way , but I don ' t th ink t h i s i s a c i rcus - l i ke c onvent i on . (App l au s e . ) ' 'That i s a l i e ! Was h e t h e re ? The re we re n o b ra s s b an d s , c l own s , an i m a l a c t s , o r wh a t h ave y o u a t a c i rcus . I t was he l d i n a s imp l e farm s e t t i n g , w i th wo o ds , f i e l ds , b ro o k s - a charm i n g c oun t ry s e t t in g fo r adul t s an d c h i l d ren a l i ke . The re w e r e c a r l o ads o f f am i l i e s w i t h c h i l dren , do g s , p i cn i c l unche s , e t c . S ome c amp e d o ve rn i ght , g o t wat e r from the s p r in ghous e , and a l l t ho rou gh l y e n j oye d t hems e l v e s . " Jus t as we are do i n g h e re t o day . "The l e c t u r e s we re he l d in t h e mo rn in g s and a ft e rn o o n s - t h e mov i e s at n i gh t . S ome of the s p e ak e r s w e re memb e r s o f L o n g John ' s p an e l , s uch as S e r g e an t P a l ey , P e rt h Amb oy P o l i c e F o rce ; G e o r ge Van He eke , e d i t o r o f S COPE ; E l l e ry L an i e r , auth o r ; Le s t e r de l Ray , S c i en c e F i c t i on wr i te r ; B en I s qu iw i t h , Cyb e rne t i c i an ; ' ' - - How many p e op l e rememb e r Ben ? ( App l aus e . ) " G ray B arke r , " my p ub l i s he r o f " F rom Ou t e r Sp ac e , " who i s a wond e r fu l p e r s on � He do e s n ' t l o o k l i k e a c i rcus p e r f o rme r to me o We had " E den G r ay , Man a ge r of N . Y . Bo o k Shop ; Ri c h a rd We t he r i l l , Lab o r - Mana gemen t Cons u l t an t an d auth o r o f s eve r a l b o ok s on t h e s ub j e c t , a l s o aut ho r o f " Human e t i c s " . . e t c . , e t c . Va r i ous rad i o an d new s p ap e r rep o r t e r s we re int e rv i ew i n g and t ap i n g s t o r i e s and op i n i on s amo n g t h e p e op l e a t t en d i n g the c onven t i on . The i r s t o r i e s and t he i r op i n i o n s we re s t r i c t ly t h e i r own an d t h ey w e re fre e t o e xp re s s i t , whe t h e r p ro o r con , as I was f re e t o e xp re s s my own t h e o r i e s . The e n t i re atmo s ph e re o f the conven t i on wa s f r i en d ly , con gen i a l gathe r i n g o f inqu i r i n g m i n ds i n t o i n t e re s ­t i n g s ub j e c t s . We ann o un c e d ove r the l ouds p e ake r that no a l c o ho l i c b e ve rage s wou l d b e a l l owe d on the c onven t i on g roun d s ; t h i s was due t o t h e fa c t t ha t s omeone c ame t o the s p e ak e r ' s s t an d t o rep o rt t h at a man was d r i n k i n g l i quo r f rom a b o t t l e und e r a t re e an d wa s g e t t in g rath e r o b n o x i ous . Tha t man was Ju l e s S t . G e rma in ! He wa s reque s t e d t o do no fu rt h e r dr i nk in g o n t h e g roun ds .

" The New Yo rk p re s s g ave a ve ry d i s j o i n t e d a c c oun t o f the c onvent i o n . I t g o t a l o t o f c ove ra ge , but t hey made i t app e a r as i f anyone who b e l i eved i n U F O s and/ o r t h e p o s s i b i l i ty o f

8 3

a dvan c e d a l i en cu l t u re s we re " ko o k s " . . . They s p l i t the i r i n f in i t i ve s , p h ra s e s an d h a l f - t ru t h s t o make a s en s a t i on a l s t o ry . W e h a v e foun d that the C a l i fo rn i a , m i d - we s t e rn , and Penn s y l van i a p ap e r s we re a l o t l e s s di sp o s e d to s e ns a t i on a l i sm . The New Y o rk News an d M i rror t o o k the l e ad i n t hat typ e o f rep ort i n g .

" S t i l l , I c anno t s e e why I mus t de fe n d my b e l i e f t h a t t he re are i n t e l l i ge n t b e i n gs i nhab i t i n g o th e r s ph e re s , n o mo re t h an s ome e l emen t s o f th i s human i ty mus t de fend the i r b e l i e f in a re d dev i l wi t h p o i n t e d e a r s and fo rke d t a i l ! . . o r human o i ds w i th w i n g s l i k e b i rds ! S o much fo r t h e c onven t i on .

" Th e n e x t s t a t e ment Mr . H a l l make s : ' Mr . Men ge r c l a ime d s p ac e ­men c on t a c t e d h im on h i s p rop e r ty o He o f fe re d pho t o g rap h s as p ro o f . ' I wro t e a b o o k , ' F rom Out e r Sp ace To You ' ( fac t ­f i c t i on - 1 9 5 8 ) b a s e d on an a c t u a l e xp e r i en ce wh i c h I a c c i den ­t a l ly s tumb l e d up on i n an i s o l a t e d f i e l d t o the rear o f my p rope rty i n H i gh B r i dge , N . J . " He c l a im s i n the l e t t e r t h a t t he s e p ho t o graph s we re p a in t e d . But th ey we re n o t p a i n t e d . They we re t aken w i t h Po l a ro i d and o t h e r c ame ra s .

The n e x t b o o k wh i ch I i n t end t o wr i t e - i t ' s o n t he way now - wh i c h w i l l p ro b ab l y b e out wi t h in the y e a r (we don ' t h ave a de f i n i t e pub l i s h e r f o r i t a s ye t ) "The H i gh B r i dg e I n c i de n t , " w i l l t e l l ab out h o w t h i s i n c i dent i n H i gh B r i d ge , a s many o f you kn ow ab out and a s Long John has t o l d ab out i n t he s how , w a s us e d a s a g auge t o i n d i c a t e t h e p e op l e ' s re a c t i on t o a l i en c on t ac t o

( C o n g i nu i n g w i t h l e t t e r : ) "The s e pho t o g r ap h s I s en t t o a de p a r tm e n t in the P e n t agon . I t w a s n ' t l on g a ft e rwa rd that I was c on t ac t e d and as ke d if I wou l d c o op e r a t e i n an e xp e r i ­men t b as e d on what I h a d i n adve r t en t l y s e en an d p ro j e c t int o t h i s expe r i en c e an e xp ande d f�t u r i s t i c v i ew o f ' t h in g s t o c ome ' . . w i t h t h e i r h e l p and � i nfo rma t i on . ( I s upp o s e t hey mus t have f i gure d the only way to ob t a i n my s i l en c e and c o o p e rat i on was to p ut me on the ' t e am ' . . ) I n o the r words , t he ' H i gh B r i dge I n c i de n t ' o · � was u s e d a s a guage t o i n d i c a t e the p e op l e ' s r e a c t i on t o a l i en c on t a c t . Y o u w i l l n o t t h in k t h i s i s t o o s t ran ge when you c o n s i de r t h a t OUR ASTRONAUTS TODAY ARE B E I NG THOROUGHLY CON D I T I ONE D AND T RA I NE D TO ME ET ANY AND EVE RY S T RANG E COND I T I ON OR S I TUAT I ON THEY MAY FACE UPON LAN D I NG ON AN AL I EN WO RL D ! The p s ycho l o gy o f human r e ac t i on to the s t range and unknown , the ut t e r de s o l a t i on o f a h o s t i l e t e r ra i n , the comp l e t e i s o l at i on i n the b l ack vo i d of s p a c e , and t he awe s ome fe e l i n g of l o o k i n g b ac k a t a d i m l y g l ow i n g g l ob e c a l l e d E a rt h , s o d i s t an t , s o s ma l l . . . THE S E A RE THE F E E L I NG S OUR AS TRONAUTS MUST F E E L , CONQUE R , CONT ROL AND COPE W I TH . Sp a c e Me d i c i ne i s de a l i n g w i t h unknown fac t o r s an d human react i on t o them , a n d i f our s c i e nt i s t s s om e t i me s ob t a in t he i r muc h n e e de d i n f o rmat i on

� '

8 4

i n b i z ar re way s , i t i s b e c au s e they h ave o n l y one kn own quan t i ty w i t h wh i ch t o work , name l y , t he hum an fac t o r . B e a r i n g th i s i n m i n d , l e t us s upp o s e they s up e r i mp o s e a hyp o t h e t i c a l c o n d i t i on ( b a s e d on t ru th ) - l i k e a s p ac e c raft l an d i n g i n an o b s cure coun t ry t own an d s ome a l i en c re a t ur e s d i s emb a rk in g , g iv i n g me s s age s o f g o o d wi l l t o a l o c a l yoke l a c t i n g as ' c ont a c t e e ' . O $ Th i s wou l d b e one way o f ge t t i n g an i nd e x o f human r e ac t i on . Of cours e , I cou l d go on at l en g t h , bu t I a s s ume b y n ow you h ave t h e p o i n t e s t ab l i s h e d . . e ' The re i s more in th i s wo r l d t han me e t s th e eye , Hora t i o ' . � o •

I have j us t b e en i n f o rm e d tha t I h ave on l y 10 m i nut e s o ( App l au s e � ) S o I ' d b e t t e r d rop t h i s R i c h a r d Ha l l s ub j e c t . ( App l au s e an d murmur s . )

( The b a l an c e o f Mr . Men g e r ' s l e t t e r t o Co l one l J o r dan i s a s fo l l ows : )

" I a g re e d t o c o op e ra t e i n t he ab ove e xp e r imen t an d whe n the p re s s p i c ke d up the s t o ry of f ly in g s auce r s ove r H i gh B r i dge ( an d t he y we re th e re an d t he p e op l e d i d s e e t h em - don ' t as k me how o r why ) they r e a l l y h a d a b a l l . They wo rke d i t up i n t o a re a l s en s a t i on � Howeve r , a l l t he p ub l i c i ty d i d n o t h e l p me , m y wo r k , o r m y fami l y , a s I h a d l i t t l e o r n o p r i va cy l e ft . But th i s was a l l p a rt o f i t , I had t o me e t and t a l k t o p e op l e . . . At f i r s t , I wa s a l i t t l e s hy a n d mo re o r l e s s t o n gue - t i e d , b u t a f t e r many l e c t u re s I g a i n e d i n c o n f i de n ce , an d w i t h t h e ma t e r i a l and s u gge s t i on s h an de d t o me , I was ab l e t o c a r ry o n .

' ' The n e x t s t at ement by Mr . Ha l l r e a d s : ' . . . he go t i n t roub l e w i th t he F . C . C . f o r i l l e ga l l y ope rat i n g a gene ra t o r . . . ' I was n o t i n t ro ub l e wi t h the F . C . C . I was n o t op e ra t i n g an i l l e g a l g e n e rat o r o I was n o t t ransm i t t i n g

-!--

The only re a s on t h e F . C . C . c ame t o t he farm was b a s e d on a rumo r by a l o c a l rep o r t e r t h a t I wa s t r ansm i t t in g w i t h out a l i c en s e . Th i s n o s y rep o rt e r , p o k i n g aroun d for news an d n o t c a r i n g h ow he go t i t , was t re sp as s i n g on my p rop e rty and d i s c overe d one o f my e xp e r imen t s . The F . C . C . was n o t i f i e d . The agent f rom F . C . C . was a l i t t l e b i t emb a r ra s s e d t o f i n d n o t h in g , b u t s u g ge s t e d t h a t i f I was t h i n k i n g o f t ransm i t t i n g ( h am rad i o ) I mus t ob t a i n a l i c e ns e . The repo r t e r who t re s p as s e d o n our p ro p e rty wh i l e we we re out , c ame up on a t en t in a f i e l d t o t he re a r o f t h e b a rn whe re I wa s conduc t i n g a n e xp e r imen t . ( I am an ama t e u r s c i en t i s t an d i nven t o r - h ave b e en e ve r s ince ch i l dh o o d ) . . e The e xp e r iment i n c l ude d a 100 ' ae r i a l wi t h a l e a d - i n w i re t o a s y s t em o f c o i l s , c ap ac i t at o r s , and h ome ­m a de t ran s i s t o rs c o n s i s t i n g o f G e rman i um and I n d i um - l a t e r I s ub s t i t u t e d a r s en i c fo r I n d i um . F rom t he b o x j us t de s c r i b e d w a s a h e avy wi re (No . 1 2 ) l e a d i n g t o a copp e r p ip e g rounde d we l l i n t o a runn i n g s t re am . Th i s s y s t em o f e l e c t ron i c re c e i v i n g equ ipment , a c c o r d i n g t o our me a s u r i n g i n s t rume n t s ,

8 5

s e e ms t o p i ck up ene rgy f rom the a i r a roun d u s and l i t a 6 0 - wa t t bul b ve ry b r i ght fo r a t l e a s t 1 5 m inut e s . We were i n t e re s t e d in f i n d i n g out whe re it wa s com i n g f rom ; in fact , i t was s im i l a r t o s ome o f Dr . Mo ray ' s d i s cove r i e s . . ( U t ah ) . .

' ' ' Sub s equen t l y , Mr . Men ge r c l a i ms t o h ave a p o t a t o from the Mo on ' . . Ye s , I was han de d a s p e c i men that was c l a i me d to b e a p o t a t o from t h e Mo on b a s e . I t ' s t h e f i ne s t p i e c e o f dehy ­dr a t i on y o u h ave ever s e e n on Ea rth t o d a t e . Th e re i s no dehydra t i on p l an t that c an s a fe ly de hydra t e a who l e s p e c imen . I n o rde r t o dehy drat e , t h e s p e c i men mus t b e s l i ce d o r s h re dde d . I d i d t ak e t he s p e c imen t o L aWa l l and Harr i s on Re s e arch L ab o ra t o r i e s i n Ph i l ade l ph i a , Penn s y l van i a , fo r an a l y s i s . Pa i d fo r i t my s e l f . Was go i n g t o cont i nue w i t h a c a rb on - 1 4 t e s t in g , b u t the c o s t was ne a r l y $ 2 0 0 0 . 0 0 . I c o u l dn ' t do i t . S o we t o o k i t to the Dep a rtmen t o f Ag r i cu l t ure , Rut ge rs Un i ve r s i ty , New B run sw i ck , N . J . Fo r rep o r t , s e e my b o o k an d a t t ac h e d c o r re s p o n de n c e .

' ' Furt he r s t at ement o f M r . Ha l l : ' Mr . Men ge r s ay s he ma rr i e d a Venus i an . ' That i s a l i e ! I never s a i d I m a rr i e d a Venus i an . My w i fe n e ve r s a i d t h a t s h e c ame he re i n a s p ace ­s h ip from Venus . She was b o rn i n E l i z ab e t h , N . J . I n my own UFO inve s t i ga t i on s I have c ome a c ro s s many a c c o un t s o f a l i e n s c l a im i n g t o b e f r o m Ven u s an d b e i n g de s c r i b e d as fa i r c omp l e c ­t e d , w i t h l on g , b l on d h a i r . I n my own fu t ur i s t i c a c c oun t o f s p ace I m e n t i on a b l o n d Venus i an woman , a s doe s G e o rge Adams k i i n h i s b o o k ' Sp ac e S h i p s Have L an de d ' . . . I h ave remarke d rat h e r wh i m s i c a l l y t h a t my w i fe , wh o i s s m a l l , f a i r , and b l on d , i s a ' Venus i an - typ e ' . . . The p re s s re a l ly went t o t own on that . . . an d ma de money t urn in g i n copy . . .

' 'A f t e r t he ' H i gh B r i dge I n c i de n t ' h a d b e en w i de ly pub l i c i z e d a n d t he e xp e r iment w a s c on s i de re d f in i s he d , I c omp l e t e l y w i t hd rew from a l l a c t i v i t i e s i n s auce r re s e arch . I re fus e d t o g i ve l e c t u re s o r s how mov i e s o r s p e ak t o anyone about i t . I h a d comp l e t e d my m i s s i on . I wan t e d p e ac e �

' ' I c ame t o th i s s ma l l c ommun i ty t o ra i s e my f am i ly (my w i fe an d two ch i l d re n ) , t ry in g to b e a g o o d c i t i z e n and h e l p i n the p ro gre s s o f t h i s a re a . I was p r i v i l e ge d t o have a b r i e f b u t m a rve l o us g l i mp s e i n t o t h e fut u re ; I t h ough t I c o u l d he l p w i th t h a t kn ow l e d ge . I c anno t s e e h ow twe n ty y e ars o f b e in g s e l f - emp l oye d i n t h e out do o r a dve r t i s i n g bus i ne s s and b e i n g a f am i l y man an d a go o d c i t i z en c an b e w i p e d out b y i nnuendo e s , s l an t e d s t a t e ment s , re ck l e s s , un founde d l i e s , ch ara c t e r de fama ­t i on b y a ve ry thought l e s s , v 1 c 1 ou s l e t t e r o I t h a s c aus e d undue hu r t an d s t ra i n o n my fam i ly .

' ' D e s mo n d L e s l i e , c o u s i n o f W i nn i e Church i l l ; B r i n s l ey l e Po e r Trenc h , s on o f t h e F i f t h E a r l o f C l an c arty an d adve rt i s i n g man age r o f a B r i t i s h av i at i on m a g a z i n e , and o t h e rs have wr i t t e n

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b o o k s ab out s au c e rs and t he i r o c cup ant s . Th i s has n o t p re vent e d t h em f rom p e r f o rm i n g i n g o o d f a i t h and i n g o o d c i t i z e n s h ip ; n o r h a v e t he y b e e n c e n s ure d b e c aus e o f t he i r b e l i e f . En g l an d s e ems t o b e more open - m i n d e d an d mak e s a l l owan c e s f o r d i f fe re n c e s o f t h ough t s a n d b e l i e fs . Que e n Ju l i an a o f the Ne t h e r l an ds gave s p e c i a l aud i en c e t o G e o r ge Adams k i to t a l k ab out h i s b o o k .

"Wh a t I d i d , I d i d i n go o d fa i t h and w i th g o o d mo t i ve s . I was a UFO I n ve s t i ga t o r fo r y e a r s an d s p e n t t h ous an ds o f do l l a rs o f m y own money t rave l i n g a l l ove r t h e c oun t ry and t h en t u rn i n g in my rep o rt s e I n the cours e o f my inve s t i g a ­t i on s t h roughout t h e coun t ry o f s auce r c l ub s , g roup s an d o r gan i z at i on s , I h ave foun d an d i t i s my op i n i on that many o f t he s e g roup s a re know i n g l y or unknow i n g ly harb o r in g sub ­ve rs i ve s , who t a l k a l on g c ommun i s t i c l i ne s o I t w a s w i t h t h i s i n m i n d t h at I unde rt o o k t he inve s t i g at i on o f Un i de n ­t i f i e d F l y i n g Ob j e c t s , and e s p e c i a l ly th o s e re p o rt s by p e op l e who c l a ime d c on t a c t s w i t h e x t ra t e rre s t r i a l s . Some o f t h e s t o r i e s we re o ut r i ght h o a x e s , wh i l e o t he r s g ave m e s ome ­t h i n g t o t h i nk ab out , e sp e c i a l ly when one c on s i de rs the s t a t eme n t ma de by t h e l at e Gene r a l MacArt hur whe re h e warns t h e p e op l e of E a rt h to bank t o ge t h e r a ga i ns t a p o s s i b l e common enemy from out e r s p ace !

" Our G ove rnment has s p ent ove r $ 2 0 0 m i l l i on i n the i nve s t i ­g a t i on o f Un i de n t i fi e d F l y in g Ob j e c t s . That ' s an awfu l l o t o f money t o i nve s t i ga t e s om e t h i n g t h a t ' s n o t t h e re ! The A i r F o r c e t ake s t h e l e a d i n t h i s inve s t i ga t i on , a l t h ough o t he r o rg an i z a t i on s invo lve d are t h e Army , N avy , Co a s t Guard , C iv i l Ae ronau t i c s Adm in i s t r at i on , and t he Cen t ra l I n t e l l i ge n c e A gency .

" P ro f . He rmann O b e rt h , fathe r o f mo d e rn rocke t ry and t e ac h e r o f s u ch t op rocke t e xp e rt s as We rnhe r v o n B raun , b e l i eve s f ly in g s au c e rs a re p i l o t e d by 1 s up e rn at u r a l fo rms o f l i fe who h ave o b s e rve d E arth f o r a l on g t i me ' . . �

' ' Dr . H a r l ow Shap l ey , fo rme r D i re c t o r o f H a rvard Ob s e rva t o ry : ' We mus t n ow a c c e p t i t a s i n ev i t ab l e t h a t the re are o th e r wo r l ds w i t h s ome k i n d o f t h i n k i n g b e i n g s . '

" Dr . Haro l d C . Urey : I n t e rn a t i on a l Ma rs Commi t t e e , fo rme r Comm i s s i on e r o f At omi c Ene r gy C ommi s s i on : ' I t i s exce e di n g ly p rob ab l e t ha t t he re i s o th e r l i fe i n t he un i ve rs e mo re i nt e l ­l i gen t t h an ours . '

' ' D r . C lyde W . Tomb augh , no t e d A s t ronome r , d i s c ove re r o f P l u t o (who h a s s i gh t e d U F O s p e rs on a l ly ) ' The s e t h i n gs , wh i ch d o app e a r t o b e d i re ct e d , a r e un l i k e any o the r p henomena I e ve r o b s e rve d . . No one , s o far , h a s s ure - f i re , ab s o l ute p ro o f . e Ot h e r s t a r s i n o u r g a l axy may h ave hundre d s o f thous ands o f i nh ab i t ab l e wo r l ds . Ra c e s o n the s e wo r l ds may h ave b e en

, .. · �

8 7

ab l e t o u t i l i z e t h e t remendous amount s o f p ow e r requ i re d t o b r i dg e t h e s p a c e b e tween t h e s t ars e '

' 'Wi l l i am L e a r , P re s i dent o f L e a r , I n c . ( a i rcraft & e l e ct ron i c s e q u i p men t ) . � . who s aw a fly in g s auce r h ims e l f . . * ' I b e l i eve t hat the f ly in g s au c e r s c ome from o ut e r s p a c e an d are p i l o t e d b y b e i n gs o f s up e r i o r i n t e l l i ge n c e . '

" P r o f � H a ro l d D . L a s swe l l , Y a l e S cho o l o f L aw . . . ' Th e i mp l i c a ­t i o n s o f un i de n t i f i e d fly i n g ob j e ct s ( U F O ) may b e t h a t WE ARE ALREADY V I EWED W I TH SUSP I C I ON by more a dvan c e d c i v i l i z a t i on s an d t h a t o u r a t t emp t s t o ga i n a foo tho l d e l s ewhe re may b e re b u f fe d a s a t h re a t to OTH E R SYSTEMS O F PUB L I C ORDER . . . I T I S A QUE S T I ON OF DEAL I NG W I TH OTHE R C I V I L I ZAT I ONS O F UNKNOWN STAG E S OF DEVE LOPMENT . G . '

" Dr . C a r l Jung , Sw i s s P s y c ho l o g i s t s , s a i d Un i den t i f i e d F ly i n g Ob j e c t s a r e re a l an d ' s h ow s i gn s o f i n t e l l i gent gu i dan ce b y q u a s i - human p i l o t s � · · T h e d i s c s d o n o t b e h ave i n a c c o rdance w i t h p hy s i c a l l aw s , b u t a s t h ough w i t hout we i gh t . . o I f the e x t ra t e rre s t r i a l o r i g in of t h i s phenomen a s h ou l d b e c on f i rme d ,

t h i s wou l d p ro ve the e x i s t e n c e o f an i n t e l l i gent i n t e rp l ane t a ry re l at i on s h i p . Wh a t s u ch a fact m i gh t me an fo r human i ty c an ­n o t b e p re d i c t e d . BUT I T WOU L D PUT US W I THOUT DOUBT I N THE E XT REME LY P RE CAR I OU S POS I T I ON OR P R I M I T I VE COMMUN I T I E S I N CONF L I CT W I TH THE S UP E R I O R CULTU RE . . . THAT THE CON S TRUC T I ON O F THE S E MACH I NE S P ROVE S A S C I ENT I F I C TE CHN I QUE I MME N S E LY S UP E R I O R TO OURS CANNOT B E ARG UE D .

" Th i s l i s t o f w e l l - kn own au tho r i t i e s who b e l i e ve i n s p ac e c ra f t p i l o t e d b y s up e r i o r b e i n g s c o m i n g i n t o o u r atmo sphe re from o t he r wo r l ds c an g o on i nde f i n i t e l y e Howev e r , a t th i s p o i n t I wou l d l i ke t o quo t e from my l e t t e r t o Ma j o r Keyhoe , O c t ob e r 1 6 , 1 9 5 7 . . . ' I know , and m any o f my g roup kn ow , t h a t n o t o n l y the c r a ft e x i s t , but p e op l e o f h i gh e r unde rs t an d i n g an d wh o h ave an i nt e l l i ge n t app roach t o the p r op e r e x i s t e n c e on a p l an e t do e x i s t . I i n t e n d t o , i n t he ne a r fu t ure , i f you w i l l a c c ep t my co op e r a t i on an d h e lp , a s s i s t you i n p rovin g t h a t wh at I s ay i s t rue o We know that you are mov i n g i n t he d i re c t i on o f p ro v i n g t h a t p e op l e are c o m i n g t o t h i s p l an e t f rom o t h e r p l an e t s a n d t h a t w e a re t he ho s t i l e b e i n g s . . � '

"Ma j o r Key h o e ' s rep l y ( in p a rt ) d at e d Oct obe r 2 1 , 1 9 5 7 : ' I n re g a r d t o your Oc t ob e r 1 6 l e t t e r , I c ann o t a g re e t h a t I am m o v i n g in t h e d i re c t i on of p rovi n g t h a t we a re t he "ho s t i l e b e i n g s " , a s c omp a re d w i th any p o s s i b l e be i n g s from o t h e r p l an ­e t s , b e c au s e I do n o t c o n s i de r t h i s t o b e t h e t ruth . I t h i n k t h at my s t an d and N I CAP ' s i s s h own i n t he m a g a z ine - we d o n o t c on s i de r t h at any o f the c on t ac t s t o r i e s t o dat e a r e ab s o lu t e ly p roven , b u t we w i s h t o l e a rn t h e fac t s � '

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"No t e : F o r s ome r e a s on , unkn own t o me a t t he t ime , I was a dv i s e d to get the s to ry an d i n fo rmat i on , movi e s , s p e c imens , e t c . , t o t h e p eo p l e a s fas t as I c ou l d . � o H 9 M �

" O f cour s e , t h e who l e p rob l e m the UFOs p o s e i s n o t on l y a m i l i t a ry one , b u t a re l i g i ou s one G ' I f i t s h ou l d f in a l ly b e p rove d t h at t he re a re o t h e r inhab i t e d wo r l ds , wh a t w i l l th i s d o t o our c on c ep t s o f re l i g i on ? ' Many f a i t h s have b e e n wo rk in g t oward t h e s o lut i on o f th i s en i gma o

"The C a t h o l i c d o c t r in e was s t at e d i n 1 9 5 2 b y the Ve ry Rev . F r an c i s J . Conne l l , De an o f Cat h o l i c Un ive r s i ty ' s S ch o o l o f S ac r e d The o l o gy , Wa s h in g t on , D � C . ' I t i s we l l fo r C a t ho l i c s t o kn ow t h at t h e p r i n c ip l e s o f the i r fa i t h are en t i re ly re c on c i l ab l e w i t h even the mo s t a s t ound i n g p o s s i b i l i t i e s o f l i fe o n o t h e r p l an e t s . ' F a th e r C onn e l l l i s t e d four typ e s o f c re a t u re s wh i ch m i ght e x i s t on o th e r p l ane t s , ran g in g from n e a r - d i vi n e ( s up e r i o r ) to e v i l gen i us e s ( ho s t i l e ) . . .

" F ro m a P a s t o r o f a Luthe ran Chu rch : ' Th e b o l d e s t e xp l o ra t i on s o f s p a ce w i l l s e rve o n l y t o i n t r o duce amon g men a new e ra : of d i s s en s i on i f they a re n o t unde r t aken wi t h deep m o r a l re fi e c ­t i on an d c o n s c i ent i ou s devo t i on t o the H I G H E R I NTE RE STS O F HUMAN I TY . '

"You w i l l b e g i n t o s e e t h e I MMENS I TY AND S COPE OF T H I S UFO P ROBLEM , an d WHY IT MUS T BE A S LOW , DEL I B E RATE P RO CE S S I N G TOWARD MUTUAL UNDE RSTAN D I NG THROUGHOUT THE WO R L D � I t wis Wen de l l W i l k e ' s p a s s i on a t e p l e a fo r ONE WO R L D j o ine d i n p e ace and f r e e dom . I t wa s the p l ann i n g an d c on s t ru c t i on o f the UN I TE D NAT I ON S , whe re n a t i on a l p rob l ems c ou l d b e wo rk e d out a round t h e con fe re n c e t ab l e i n s t e a d of open warfa re .

"Wh a t eve r b i z arre c i r cums t an c e s o c c as i on e d my ent ran ce i n t o t h e UFO f i e l d , i t was wi t h p rope r mot ivat i on an d t h e de s i re t o h e l p t h a t s o i nvo l ve d me . I h ave n o f i gh t w i t h N I CAP as a c i v i l i an i n ve s t i g a t i on group , a ft e r a l l , t h e re a re many o f them a l l ove r t h e wo r l d ; but I mo s t a s s ure d l y o b j e c t t o the i r ' Ac t i n g D i re c t o r ' s ' remarks ab o u t me 0 I t i s n ' t s o much wha t h e s ay s , but the way h e s ay s i t , s n i de an d cont emp t uous , de s i gn e d t o emb a rras s me i n my own c ommun i ty an d deva l u a t e any t h i n g I wou l d t ry t o do f o r t h e c o mmun i t y . Howeve r , on ly re c e n t l y I h ave l e a rne d t ha t I am n o t the only v i ct im t o s u ffe r i n s u l t s b y t h e a c i d t on gue an d p en o f Mr . Ha l l .

"Wi t h re fe rence t o t h e Ae ronaut i c a l & Sp ace Conven t i on - t h i s c on ve n t i on i s c on s t ru c t e d a l on g e n t i re l y d i fferent l in e s . I t i s n o t p r i ma r i ly fo r the d i s cus s i on o f UFOs . I t i s t o e n c ou ra ge i n t e re s t i n ae ronaut i c s , s p a c e an d s c i en c e . e � an d t o s t i mul a t e g row th i n S e b as t i an . One o f t h e f i r s t s p e ake rs to r e s p o n d was S t e p h e n Schm i dt , D i re c t o r , Sc i ence Mus e um and

8 9

P l an e t a r i um , who wi l l s p e ak o n ASTRONOMY . o . Thomas L . Mart in , Jr . , D e an , Co l l e ge o f En g i ne e r i n g , Un i ve r s i ty o f F l o r i da , he ad o f GENE SYS P r o g ram , an d many o the r s c i en t i f i c al l y o r i en t e d s p e ak e r s . W e a re wa i t i n g for the o t h e r comm i tment s t o come i n , but I t e l l y o u frank l y , when I have t o p a rry an d fen c e wi t h i n s i d i ou s , sma l l - m i n d e d opp o s i t i on , de fen d my c h a r a c t e r , e a rn a l iv in g , an d p l an a c o nvent i on w i t h ab s o lute ly l i t t l e or n o s upp o r t , I be g in to won de r , why a l l t h i s b o t h e r fo r a s ma l l c o mmun i ty t h a t s e ems con t e n t to s t ay j u s t whe re i t i s . O f cours e , t he re a s on come s - I l ive he re , I work h e re , my fam i l y is b e i n g r a i s e d he re an d my b oy goes to s ch o o l h e r e . Tho s e are c e r t a i n l y v a l i d re a s on s why I wan t t o do s ome t h i n g c o n s t ruc t ive . Ano t he r re a s on I want e d to do s ome ­t h i n g fo r S e b a s t i an i s t h a t I p l anne d t o run fo r Coun c i l man in a coup l e o f y e ars , and b e fo re I d i d s o I want e d t o do s ome t h i n g fo r th i s c o mmun i ty . I had b e en a s k e d on s eve r a l o c c a s i on s b y p ro m i n e n t i n d i v i du a l s i n th i s t own t o run fo r c ounc i lman . I c on s i de r my s e l f a go o d c i t i z en and a p a t r i o t i c Ame r i c an - the re c o rd w i l l s p e ak f o r me o n t h i s s ome day . I t h a s b e e n rumo re d a ro un d t own t h a t I am a re l i g i ous fan at i c . We l l , t h a t ' s a p re t ty s e r i ous c r ime , i s n ' t i t ? But l e t ' s s e e i f I f i t t h e p i c t u re . I was b ap t i z e d a Luthe ran , n e ve r h ave b e en much of a church - goe r $ My ch i l dren re c i t e t h e L o rd ' s P raye r e ac h n i gh t . My l i t t l e t h re e - ye ar - o l d dau ght e r fo l l ows t he p raye r s wi t h a re c i t a t i on of t h e P l e dge o f Al l e g i an c e e My f am i l y a t t en ds the Ch r i s t i an Sc i en c e Church , b e c au s e i t i s t he n e a re s t t o wh at w e b e l i eve . I f th i s i s b e i n g a ' fanat i c ' , then I s t an d r i ght l y a c c us e d .

" I w i l l t ry t o make my c on c l ud i n g remark s s imp l e and t o t h e p o i n t . I do n o t g i ve up e a s i l y , e s p e c i a l ly whe n I know I am in t h e r i gh t d i re c t i on � I f n o t h i n g e l s e i s a c comp l i s he d , I h ave s p a rke d S e b a s t i an a l i t t l e , gave i t news s p a c e , adve r ­t i s e d i t s b e auty , p o t en t i a l s , c l i m a t e a l l ove r the c oun t ry ( i n c l ud i n g Europe ) , a l s o has b e en d i s c u s s e d on WO R , Ran d i ' s A l l - N i gh t P ro g ram , an d I have i n t e re s t e d the F l o r i da Deve l op ­m e n t Comm i s s i on t o s uch an e x t e n t t ha t they p ut me i n t ouch w i t h one of t h e i r men who wi l l w o rk w i t h me and c o op e ra t e w i t h me on t h i s p ro j e ct o O n e o f th e p ro j e c t s t h a t I wou l d p u s h fo r a s c o un c i l man ( o r c i t i z en ) i s a b r i dge j o i n i n g S e b as t i an w i t h t h e S e b as t i an B r i dge I n l e t P a rk Are a a n d op en up re c re at i on a l fa c i l i t i e s . I ' ve cont act e d t he F l o r i da Deve l opment Comm i s s i on on t h i s . But , o f c ours e , you mus•t t h row a l l t h i s g o o d , cons t ru c t i ve p ro j e c t out . . . and ac c �p t p o i s on - p en l e t t e rs as c r i t e r i a e T e l l me t rut h fu l l y , wh a t h a s t h a t sm a l l c l i que o f n arrow m in ds t h a t dom i n a t e the S e b a s t i an C i v i c As s o c i a t i on eve r done fo r S e b a s t i an ? Jus t wh a t h a s b e e n t he i r con t r i but i on t o th i s town ? Do you p e rm i t t h e m an e uve r i n g o f s uch i nd i v i du a l s t o ren de r ine ffe c t u a l t he a s p i ra t i on s an d w o r k s o f the g o o d men o f your commun i ty ? A t t h i s p o in t I don ' t know wh at t o b e l i e ve , e xcep t in m y own go o d i n t e n t and p e rs ona l i nt e g r i ty .

I ; I .:. l _f�·­

<1 .�' - ': . · .. ' \

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" I re a l i z e t h i s h a s b e c ome a p o l i t i c a l i s s ue , an d t h at the opp o s i t i on h a s t emp o ra r i l y turn e d t he i r a t t acks on my p e r s on , and then , i n turn , u s e me a g a i n s t the Coun c i l , i n t he hope o f g a i n i n g a s e a t on the Coun c i l . We l l , i f you a l l ow t h i s , then my advi ce is fo r Coun c i l to act i n t he i r own b e s t i n t e re s t .

"Than k i n g you for your i n d i v i du a l and pe rs on a l en coura gement , I am ,

' ' Re s p e c t ful ly yours ,

"Howard Men g e r "HM/ cv " c c : F inne g an "

MR � HOWARD MENG E R : ( Cont i nu i n g ) The re i s one o t he r t h i n g t h a t I wou l d l i k e t o men t i on , t h a t I w i s h p e op l e woul d s t op r e a c t i n g a ga in s t our wonde r fu l A i r Fo rce , wh i ch i s de d i ­c at e d t o p re s e r v i n g your free dom , your p ro t e c t i on in t h i s g re a t coun t ry o f ours . ( App l aus e . ) The A i r F o rce , o f cours e , we a l l know , h a s a h o t p o t a to dropp e d r i ght i n i t s l ap : Ext ra ­t e r re s t r i a l v i s i t at i on s wh i ch a re go i n g on . We know they a re c o m i n g he re , an d th e re a re m o re c o n t act s eve ry day .

Ano t h e r t h i n g I wou l d l i ke t o s ay i s t h a t I th ink the re h a s b e en t o o mu ch b a d p ub l i c i ty a ga ins t the C I A , ano t h e r wonde r fu l o r gan i z at i on . ( App l aus e an d bo o s ) Thank you . You s e e wha t t h e pub l i c i ty h a s done � You L �n he ar w i t h i n t he aud i ence i t s bad p ub l i c i ty . They don ' t d e s e rve i t ; ne i t he r do e s t he A i r F o r c e . They a re h e re t o p ro t e c t us . L ad i e s and gent l emen , around t h i s g re a t coun t ry o f ours i s a j un g l e , whe t he r you know it or n o t , an d t h e re are s pe c i a l i z e d me n who kn ow how to de a l on t he s ame l e ve l w i t h t he s e p e op l e on t he out s i de t ry in g t o g e t i n an d conque r us . The s e p e op l e a re t ra ine d t o de a l w i th t h e s e p e op l e on t he i r l e ve l . T h a t ' s the on ly way we w i l l e ve r s urv ive , s o don ' t kn o ck t h e C I A , p l e a s e . ( App l aus e . )

The l a t e s t i nc i dent i n F l o r i da , the re was a s i ght i n g by two y o un g fe l l ows . I h a d s e en th e c r a f t my s e l f . I t was h e a d i n g t oward Cape Kenne dy . I h ave s e en o t h e r s i ght i n gs a l on g C ap e Kenne dy , howeve r . They we re pho t o graph s pub l i s he d i n J im Mo s e l e y ' s S au c e r News . B u t t h e l a s t one I had was wha t w e c a l l " an ge l h a i r f a l l o ut . " Aft e r the c ra ft h a d p a s s e d ove r , t h e re was a t e r r i f i c f a l l ou t o f wh a t we c a l l " an ge l h a i r " a l l ove r t he p l ac e , c a r w i n ds h i e l ds , i t wa s o n e l e c t r i c wi re s , i t was o n t re e s , an d I grab b e d up wh a t I c ou l d , wi t h a ve ry won ­de r fu l b oy , T om L on ghurs t , f rom the O r l an do Sen t ine l , who was ve ry i n t e re s t e d i n f l y in g s auce rs , and we got a g re a t p i c ture of my thumb h o l d in g a b i g b l ob of th i s on a b a l l - p o int p e nc i l , and I t r i e d t o g e t i t t o t h e l ab o rat o ry i n t h e n e a re s t un ive r ­s i t y , F l o r i da I n s t i tu t e o f Te chn o l o gy , and i t d i s app e a r e d on

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the way � Th i s i s a p e cu l i a r a s p e c t o f an ge l h a i r , i t d i s ­app e ar s on the way . I t re a l ly do e s . I t me l t s i n your han d . The re i s n o e v i d e nce .

I was j us t wonde r i n g wh en the en g i ne e r h a d p l an s t o run t h e f i l m . How much t ime do I h ave ?

TH E ENG I NEE R : Whe n do you want i t ?

MR . MENG E R : I have b e en t o l d I on l y h ave 1 0 m inut e s , l ad i e s and gent l emen o I c ou l d go o n fo r a we e k , but I only h ave 10 m i n u t e s . I wou l d l i ke you t o see t he f i l m , howeve r o ( App l au s e . ) Turn t he l i gh t s out . ( Sh ow i n g o f f i lm . )

The o r i g in a l i s i n 8 m i l l i me t e r ; th i s i s b l own up t o 1 6 m i l l i me t e rs . I h op e t he e n g i ne e r c an run i t i n s l ow mo t i on s o I c an t e l l t h e p e op l e wh a t t hey a re l o o k i n g a t �

Th i s wa s t ak e n i n Upp e r Yuc c a Va l l e y , C a l i fo rn i a , one o f G e o r g e Van T a s s e l ' s c onven t i on s � A man h ad j us t j ump e d i n a p a rachut e , y ou c an s e e � Th i s i s n ' t s l ow mo t i on , i s i t ? He re c ome s th e ' chut e . I t ' s i n n ow , and the fi lm i s s haky , b e c au s e I am runn i n g t o ge t out o f the way o f the app ro ach i n g a i rp l an e .

Th i s i s i n Penn sy l van i a . Th i s , I am t o l d , he l d fo r qu i t e a wh i l e and then t o o k o ff l i ke a s t re ak o f l i ght . Th i s i s i n Penn s y l van i a . The re , t h i s i s my c ra ft . Th i s i s t h e X - 2 � Th i s i s an o th e r one i n Penn s y l van i a . Th i s i s t h e X - 2 . Th i s i s t he X - 2 , 1 9 5 2 .

Th i s i s S e p t emb e r 1 9 5 8 , t h i s p a rt i cu l a r one he re . I t d i dn ' t l an d , n o one got o u t . I t wa s ve ry fas t when i t t oo k o ff . S e e me d t o be h o l d i n g t he re s o I cou l d t a ke a mov i e o f i t . N o one g o t out .

Th i s i s an o t he r typ e o f ob j e ct , one o f the l ar g e r c ra f t . I t chan ge d i n t o a l i t t l e b l ack b a l l . L a t e r on i n the f i l m you w i l l s e e t h i s . Wha t i t was I don ' t know . l le re it is now , t he c h an g e . I t wen t b e h i n d t he t re e . I t s e e me d t o b e obs e rv i n g me . I t t o o k o f f . Th i s i s ano th e r o n e t h a t they dropp e d from the c r a f t . Th i s th i n g chan ge d i n t o a t h i n g that l o o k e d l i k e a l a r g e fr i e d e gg . I t l o oke d a l i ve . You s e e the t en t ac l e s s t i ck in g o u t o f i t . I don ' t know wh a t i t wa s .

Th i s i s t h e b e s t one I h ave eve r s e en o The re i s not e n ough of i t . Cou l d t hey run t h at one b a ck and s t op i t ? The re i t i s . I s t h e re any way t o s t op t h a t ? I don ' t know wh a t k i nd o f e q u i p me n t we h ave up t h e re . We c an ' t s t op t ha t ? 0 . K . T h a t was one app rox ima t e ly 6 0 fe e t i n d i ame t e r . I t c arne , f i n a l l y , down on t h e groun d s You s e e , I am s e a rch i n g fo r i t �

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I t j us t t o ok o f f and i t came down l a t e r on and no one go t out . I t j us t s t o o d t h e re . ( En d o f f i lm . ) ( App l aus e . )

I know - - I c an fe e l t ha t a l o t o f you are d i s appo i n t e d ( app l aus e ) b e c aus e o f t he t ime l im i t s and b e caus e o f the f i llt l . I wi s h we c ou l d h ave s l owe d i t down and s t oppe d i t , b e c aus e I h a d a l o t t o s ay on i t , but I gue s s I don ' t h ave much t ime .

I t h in k t he mo s t i mp o rt an t t h i n g t h a t h app e n e d t o me wa s in H i gh B r i dge , New J e r s ey , in t he s umme r of 1 9 5 6 . I t was i n Augus t . The c raft came down from the we s t . I t l oo k e d l i k e a h u g e f i re b a l l � I w a s f r i gh t e ne d . G radua l ly , as i t c arne c l o s e r , i t s l owe d down , t h e p u l s at i ons s ub s i de d . A me t a l l i c app e arance w a s p l a in l y v i s i b l e . I t wa s no l on ge r a b a l l o f f i re , i t t urne d i n t o wh a t l oo k e d l i ke a man - made c ra f t an d re f l e c t i n g the s un as it c arne c l o s e t o the g roun d , an d i t was a b e au t i fu l s i gh t , ve ry s im i l ar t o the one o n t he s c re en h e re . I t s t opp e d ab out a fo o t and a h a l f from the groun d & An o p e n i n g app e are d i n t he s i de of the c ra f t � The re was a s ma l l i n c l i n e o r p l a t fo rm . Two men s t epp e d out , ve ry n i c e ly dre s s e d in s h i ny s p ace s u i t s , s uch as wh a t we h ave t o day for our a s t ron auts , ve ry s i m i l a r � Of cours e , in tho s e day s - - t h i s wa s way ah e ad o f t h e t i me . On e man s t eppe d t o t h e l e ft an d t h e o th e r s t eppe d t o t h e r i gh t , an d t h e n ano th e r m a n s t epp e d out , a m a n w h o I wi l l n e v e r f o r ge t a s l on g a s I l ive . He wa s app ro x ima t e l y 6 fo o t 1 , maybe 6 fo o t 2 . He h a d l on g , b l on d h a i r ove r h i s s h oul de rs - - ye s , l on g , b l ond h a i r . He s t ep p e d t oward me , and t h e me s s a ge h e g ave , o f c ou rs e , was wh at mo s t p e op l e don ' t wan t t o he ar , a me s s a g e o f l o ve an d unde r s t an d i n g . He s a i d he h a d come f r o m out e r s p ace , wh i ch i s wh a t mo s t p e op l e re a l ly don ' t be l i eve i n . S ome day they w i l l .

I o ft en won der wh a t wou l d h appen t o the s e p e op l e who s ay , "We l l , wh at p ro o f do y o u h ave ? I f I cou l d s e e a f l y i n g s auc e r o r s ome one s t ep out o f a c ra ft , b oy , I wou l d make s u re t h e p e op l e knew ab out i t . " We l l , I j us t wonde r about t h a t . I f y ou re a l i z e wh a t p e op l e go t h rough when t h i s happ ens t o them . I f y o u re a l l y t h i nk y o u h ave gu t s enough t o come out and t e l l p e op l e . O f cours e , nowaday s i t m i gh t b e a l i t t l e e a s i e r , but i n the e ar l y ' S O ' s i t was very , ve ry rough , e s p e c i a l l y when y o u are i n b us i ne s s and y o u a re t ry in g t o a c t l i k e a rep u t ab l e c i t i z e n a n d b r i n g up a fam i l y and , you know , t h i n g s l i ke t h i s in your commun i ty .

But t h e man that s t epp e d out gave me a won de r fu l me s s a g e , an d I know I won ' t h ave t ime t o s t a t e the me s s a ge he re , but i t is i n my b o ok . I t i s unde r the chap t e r o f "The G re at T e ach e r . " I c a l l h im The Mas t e r . I t ' s a wonde rful me s s a ge , and I w i s h e ve ry one o f y o u wou l d re ad i t and th i nk ab out i t and t h i nk an d r e a d b e t we en t h e l in e s , be c aus e i t i s a ve ry , ve ry imp o r t an t me s s a ge .

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As f a r as t h e o t he r t h i n gs I have l e arn e d , a s i de from the s o c i a l , s p i r i t u a l a s p e c t of the s e p e op l e corn i n g from o t h e r p l an e t s , I h ave ga i ne d g re at knowl e dge , t e chn i c a l l y , in e l e c t ron i c s and a l l typ e s o f gu i d an ce wh i ch I n e ve r dreame d I wou l d b e ge t t i n g i n t o ; thus the c o rp o ra t i on i n F l o r i d a , as I t o l d you ab out b e fo re . I knew n o t h i n g ab out e l e c t r i c i t y up un t i l 1 9 5 2 . I was a fra i d o f i t - - o r any s uch t h i n g a s e l e c ­t r i c i t y . I was s t r i c t l y an a rt i s t , s i gn p a i n t e r , adve rt i s i n g n e on s i gns , a few o th e r t h i n gs l i ke t h i s . But b e c aus e o f t he s e con t a c t s I h ave g a i n e d g re at kn ow l e dge , and I am s ure the re a re o t he r p e op l e t h a t h ave e xp e r i en c e d the s ame t h i n g .

How mu ch t ime do I h ave ? Two m inut e s ? a l l o f you a ve ry h appy , h appy c o nven t i on .

MR . MO S E LEY : Th ank you ve ry rnu ch c

I want t o w i s h (App l aus e . )

We wi l l b e hav i n g our i n t e rm i s s i on b e fore ve ry l on g , but b e fo re we d o t h a t , I wou l d l i ke t o i n t roduce t o you t he man wh o I b e l i e ve t o b e t h e gre a t e s t n a tura l i s t o f our t ime , one o f the gre a t e s t UFO i nve s t i g at o rs , Mr . I van T . Sande r s on . I van T . Sande rs on , l ad i e s and gent l emen . (App l aus e . )

( Mr . Sande r s o n c arne on s t age , s a l ut e d t he aud i en c e an d emb rac e d Mr . an d Mrs . Me n ge r . )

MR . SANDE R S ON : Excu s e me , l ad i e s and g en t l e me n , b u t How i e an d Conn i e we re my n e x t - d o o r n e i gh b o r s , p re t ty c l o s e , up in Je r s ey whe re I s p e n d mo s t o f my t i me . An d I knew I wa s go i n g t o s e e them wh e n I g o t he re .

MR . MENG E R : A lway s g o o d t o s e e Ivan , a lways .

MR . SANDERSON : You p o o r p e op l e mus t wan t to go down and get wha t is e uphem i s t i c a l l y c a l l e d a C oc a - C o l a , I b e l i e ve ! Th e b a r i s o p e n down s t a i r s . Hop e you w i l l a l l come b a ck , b e c aus e we h ave qu i t e a l o t o f t h i n g s t o go i n t o .

I ap o l o g i z e fo r my s en s i b l e c l o th i n g . ( L augh t e r and app l aus e . ) B u t my de ar , l i t t l e wi fe has gon e away for a c oup l e o f we e k s ' vac at i on , and t o b e re a l ly he l p ful s he s en t a l l my s u i t s t o t h e c l e an e r s day b e fo re y e s t e rday , s o he re I am .

Now , I am go i n g t o h ave a c h an c e t o t a l k t o How i e and Conn i e , an d t he re is g o i n g t o be an i n t e rm i s s i on . I low l on g i s t he i n t e rm i s s i on ? F i ft e e n , 2 0 m i nute s ?

MR . MOS E L EY : Twen t y m inut e s .

MR . SANDE RSON : Twen ty m i nu t e s Q I s t h a t a l l r i ght by you ? I l o ok fo rwa rd t o s e e i n g you a l l b a c k a g a i n .

9 4

( I n t e rm i s s i on . )

MR o MOS E L EY : I b e l i eve we are re ady fo r our n e x t s p e ak e r , who was i n t r o du c e d b e fo re t h e i n t e rm i s s i on , s o I w i l l i n t r o du c e you a g a i n t o I van T . Sande rs on o (App l aus e . )

MR o SANDE RSON : I h a t e t he s e m i k e s o I have l i ve d w i t h t h e m fo r 4 0 y e a rs . So I s ha l l n ow p roc e e d , l ad i e s an d gent l e ­men , t o p u l l a s w i t ch on you . I h ave b e en in t h i s bus ine s s o f UFOs - - UAOs i s a mo re app rop r i a t e n ame - - f o r ne a r l y 4 0 y e ars n ow , an d I am a l on e r . I b e l ong t o n e a r l y a l l t h e o r g an i z at i on s , an d I know a l l t h e l ov e l y p e op l e you have h a d a t t h e c onve n t i on . I know the " s t u f fe d - s h i r t s " as we l l a s o t h e r s w h o a re n o t he re o I was t ra i ne d as a b i o l o g i s t , and I l oo k up o n the who l e mat t e r f rom pe rh ap s a rathe r d i f fe rent an g l e t o a l l t he o t h e r s .

I am n o t i n t e re s t e d i n t he p o l i t i c s o f UFO l o gy o r i n p o l i t i c s gene ra l ly . I am a s c i en c e rep o r t e r , t ra in e d , a s I s ay , i n z o o l o gy , ge o l o gy , and b o t any , and I con s i de r th i s wh o l e ma t t e r o f UFOs t o b e a b i o l o g i c a l p rob l em . I am fam i l i ­a r w i t h t h e v i ewp o i n t s a l l t he way f rom the l e ft , whom we c a l l cont a c t e e s , a l l t he way ove r t o t h e r i gh t - - t he s c i en t i s t s , whom I s c a t h i n g ly c a l l " s t u ffe d s h i rt s " ; i n re turn fo r them c a l l i n g me , s c a t h i n g l y , " an amat eur" !

The s e t h i n g s a re , i n t h e wo rds o f Dr . J . A l l en Hyne k , whom I c o n s i de r mo s t h i gh l y , a n at ur a l phenomenon , and as a n a t u r a l p h e n omenon t hey are a p a rt o f our un i ve rs e , o f wh i ch we o n t h i s p i f f l i n g l i t t l e p l an e t g o i n g a roun d a r a th e r m i s e rab l e l i t t l e s t a r i n s o r t o f a h i gh - s t a g e g a l axy i n t he m i d d l e n o t i n t h e m i d d l e , but s omewhe re i n i n f i n i ty . I t i s no t r e a l l y ve ry i mp o r t an t o

Hows o e ve r , t h e s e t h in gs - - t he s e n at ur a l phenome na a re e i t he r one of t h re e t h i n g s . I f they are b c l i de s o r me t e o rs - - me t e o r i t e s o r come t s , o r any o th e r i n an imate o b j e c t s - - we c a l l them i n an imat e - - they a re o f n o po s s i b l e i n t e re s t t o m e and t h e y s ho u l dn ' t have b e e n o f much i n t e re s t t o o th e r s . T hey are , a g a i n i n the wo rds o f D r . J . Al l en Hyn e k , I FO s - - i de n t i f i e d " fl y i n g " o b j e c t s . O f cours e , they don ' t f l y , but . . . .

I f they a r e n ot I FO s , in o the r words , s ome t h i n g known wh i ch i s inan imat e , t h en t h ey a re e i the r one of two t h i n g s . ( I de a l o n l y i n sp e cu l a t i on , I d e a l o n l y i n p o s s i b i l i ty and p rob ab i l i ty . ) Now , I wan t to s e e t h e fact s . They c an e i t he r b e t hems e l ve s l i v i n g e n t i t i e s - - y o u c an ' t s ay " s p ace an imal s , " b e c aus e t he y wou l dn ' t ne ce s s a r i ly b e an i ma l s - - o r i f t hey are n o t t hems e l ve s l i v i n g e n t i t i e s , t h ey a re ma c h i n e s .

9 5

Now , I don ' t unde r s �and the l o g i c o f t he s e p e rs ons who cont e n d , an d ve ry vo c i fe rous ly at t h a t , inc luding my ve ry go o d f r i end Don Keyh o e , t hat they are mach ine s and then t u rn r i gh t a r ound an d deny t h a t t he y c an h ave any o c cup an t s . A mach i n e , .fo r my �oriey , has t o b e made by s ome t h in g , an d t h a t t h i n g h a s t o b e wha t we c a l l l iv i n g . Now , c o r a l i s a ve ry b e aut i fu l s t ructure , and i t ' s ve ry o rde r l y l o o k i ng , an d i t i s made by a r a th e r d i sma l - l o o k i n g b l ob o f j e l ly . The re fo re , m o s t b e aut i fu l l y c o n s t ruc t e d mach i n e s wh i ch are an gul a r l y ab s o l ut e ly p e rfe c t a n d face t e d , i . e . , ge ome t r i c a l ly p e r fe c t , c o u l d b e made by p u re b l ob s o f j e l ly .

The re a re i n t h e s e a va r i ous a lmo s t m i c ro s c bp i c an d m i c ro s cop i c c re a t u re s , many k in ds o f b e au t i fu l l i t t l e m i c ro ­s c op i c .an ima l s wh i ch a re o f vl t a l imp o r t ance t o our e c onomy. . One o f the s e i s c a l l e d Gl ob i ge r in a and an o t h e r Fo r ami n i fe ra and t he y a re imp o rt an. t t o us , b e c aus e o i l ge o l o g i s t s s tudy t h em t o f i n d out e x ac t l y what s t ra t a o f rocks they a re dr i l ­l in g in t o , and they a re a l l 4i f fe rent . An d wh en t hey know t h ey ge t t o a ce rt a i n one , · then they kn ow the rock i s o f a c e r t a in a ge , and s o on an d s o · fo r th o An d t hey a re ve ry i mp o r t an t t o our e c on qmy . I don ' t imagine mo re t h an . 0 1 p e r c e n t o f y o u l a d i e s an d· gen t l emen i n the aud i e n c e . h ave �ve r h e a rd· o f F o ram i n i fe ra , and y e t i t · i s a ve ry imp o rt ant . t h i n g . Howeve r , i f y o u l o o k at t h em unde r a mi c ro s c op e , they a re e x t re me l y b e aut i fu l and ve ry re gul a r in p at t e rn , and . ye t , t h e y a r e made by , ai a in , a s o rt 6 f g l ob o r e ven a b l ob o f p ro t op l asm . I t s hows t h a t cons t ruct i on s , in o th e r wo rd s , c an b e made by ve ry , wha t we c a l l l owly typ e c re at u re s .

Th e p o i n t I am t ry in g t o · p ut ove r he re i s th i s : that t he s e · fab u l ous ma�h ine s wh i ch e v e ryone c l a im s t h at s ome o f the s e t h in g s a re - - n o t a l l , b u t s ome o f them - - n e e d n o t b e made by s o rt o f B a tman o r Sup e rman t yp e s . They c an b e made by v e ry l ow l y t yp e s . The t ru t h o f t he m a t t e r i s that t h e wh o l e s ub j e c t i s va s t ly · mo re comp l i c at e d t h an any o f u s re a l i z e . I h ave b e en s t ruck w i th t h i s many t �me s b e fo re . I . rememb e r whe n I was t a l k i n g . t o ano t he r c ap t ive aud i ence l i ke y o u p o o r p e op l e , on the s ub j e c t of wh al e s and wha l i n g ari d t he N e w En gl and wha l ing indus t ry , a n d i t � o o k m e an hour t o t ry artd e xp l a i n t h e s imp l e , b a s i c fact t h at t h e re i s no s uch t h i ri g as a wha le ·. Th.e re are a hun dred d i f fe re n t s p e c i e s o f wh a l e � . - The s m a l 1 e s t ' n e ve r .g e t s l on ge r than . 6 ·fe e t , and th e l a rge s t kn own, the re c o r d i s 1 1 3 � fe e t · l on g . The re are a hun dre d d i ffe rent s p e.c i e s . . Th e y a re comp l e t e ly d i ffe rent an ima l s , s ome of them l i ve · i n : fre s h wa t e r i n l ake s , s ome l ive out i n the op en o c e an , s ome of t hem l i ve i n t he � e a s a round the o c e an . An d a ft e r a l l . t h i s e f fo rt , a gerit l em an go t up dur i n g t he que s t i on p e r i o d an d s a i d , " Te l l rile , . how do e s t he wha l e b re e d ? "

·

9 6

We l l , I b e c ame s l i gh t ly de s p e r a t e a t t h a t mome n t , an d I wa s s t a n d i n g t h e r e - - a t that t i me i \va s g e t t i n g p a i u f o r i t - - an d t h e n a n o t h e r one s a i d , " Do ·y ou b e l i e ve i n f l y i n g s auce r s ? " h'e l l , m y i n t en t i on wa s t o s ay , " Do t h e y f l y ? " o r s ome r e ma rk t o ge t o f f t h e hook . Sudden l y i t dawn e d on me t h a t th e r e was o n l y one \vay to ge t th i s o ve r . I s a i d t o t h e s e t wo g e n t l emen , " L i s t e n t o m e fo r o n e mo re m i n ut e a n d I wi l.l be o f f the p l at fo rm . The No rth At l an t i c O c e an is a f a i r l y b i g p l a c e t o u s wh o a re l i v i n g on th i s p l an e t . H a ve y o u e v e r t h ough t o f a l l t h e th i ng s t h a t a re in t h e At l an t i c O c e an ? · F i r s t o f a l l , the re are a t oms wh i ch make up t h e �

mo l e c u l e , wh i ch mak e up t h e.wa t e r � and s e a wa t e r c on t a i n s

p ra c t i ca l l y eve ry o t h e r e l e me n t kn own , i n c l u d i n g g o l d . The n y o u h ave go t a l l t h e s e F o r am i n i fe ra a n d l i t t l e m i c ro s c op ­i c �n i ma l s , and y o u have g o t 4 8 , 0 0 0 s p e c

.i e s o f f i s h , 1 3 6 , 0 0 0

s p e c i e s o f c rus t a c i ans an d c r ab s an d al l t h a t j unk , and s o o n , a n d y ou e n d up wi th b e e r c an s an d s t u f f t h at h a s b e e n t h r own i n t o t h e At l an t i c bc e an by � s and p e op l e rus h i n g a round b y s p e e d b o a t s , and t h e n a l o t o f s un k e n b o a t s a n d t he Que e n Ma ry - - i n p a rt - - b e c aus e t h e b o t t om p a r t o f t h e Que e n Ma ry i s in t he wa t e r . Th i n k o f t h e numb e r o f d i f f e re n t k i nds o f t h i n g s y o u h iv e g o t i n one p a rt o f one o c e an o n one sm a l l p l an e t go i n g a round one v e ry mode s t s un in one f a i r l y m o de s t g a l axy .

Now , t h e un i ve rs e i s i n fi n i te . I know t h a t o u r my s t i c a l f r i en d , t he l a t e D r . Ein s t e i n , put a l im i t o n i t . I th i n k i t ' s 1 0 t o t h e p ow e r o f 8 6 g rams . Th i s w a s t he s um t o t a l o f o u r un i ve r s e . Howe ve r , i t ' s an awful l y b i g p l a ce . The re i s a n aw ful l o t o f s p a c e i n i t , the re ' s an awfu l l o t o f t h i n g s i n i t , an d t h e n y o u s o l emn ly turn aro�nd an d s ay : I s th e r e a th i n g c a l l e d a f l y i n g s au c e r , o r a UFO ? Don ' t b e r i d i c u ­l ous ! I t i s qu i t e p o s s i b l e w e h ave n e ve r o b s e rve d e ven t h e s ame k i n d o f a UAO tw i c e . Th i n k o f a l l t h e d i f fe re n c e s . On the o t he r h an d , the re doe s s e e m to be a p a t t e rn c om i n g out o f t h i s wh i c h s hows t h e y h ad a s o rt o f a T - Mode l way b a ck i n the 1 9 4 0 ,. s , w h i c h me an s i t may b e one of the i r churns - - I don ' t kn ow h ow m any t he re a r e -- may b e a b i l l i on , 5 0 0 b i l l i on , o r an i n f i n i ty _ o f numb e r s o f race s , o f t yp e s o f c r e a t u re s , a l l h av i n g s p ac e t ra ve l l i n g and me ande r i n g in h e re a l l t he t im� . I t i s a l l p o s s i b l e . S o i t i s p e r fe c t l y r i d i cul ous t o t u rn a roun d �n d s ay : I s the re a t h i n g c a l l e d a f l y i n g s a u c e r ?

Now , p u t i t t h e o the r way : The r e i s a l i t t l e ma t t e r o f t i me . I t i s n ow p re t ty w e l l e s t ab l i s h e d t h a t t h e re i s no s u ch th i n g as the p re s e n t , b e c aus e the mome nt you c o me t o the p re s e n t the p a� t c ome s up to th i s i n s t ant and i mme d i a t e ly i t i s t�e fu t u r e . Now , t he re a re t h o s e , and n o t on l y my s t i c a l p e rs on s , o r o c cu l t i s t s , b u t s c i e n t i s t s - - and . r me an s c i e n t i s t s , n o t t e c h n o l o g i s t s , i . e . - but t o n - pus he r s and b o t t l e - wa s h e rs , b u t b a s i c - t h i nk i n g s c i e nt i s t s - - who fe e l t h a t t he p a s t a n d t he p re s e n t may b e c o - e x i s te n t .

9 7

That g i ve s u s ano the r wh o l e asp e c t o f t h i s t h i n g . I n o t h e r wo rds , s ome o f t h e t h in g s t h a t w e m i gh t b e s e e in g m i gh t , wat ch t h a t q u a l i fy i n g wo rd "mi gh t " b e s e e i n g - - n ow , may h ave c ome h e re i n t he fut u re � I am s o rry fo r t h i s , b ut the re i t i s . The p ap e r on t h e s ub j e c t was pub l i s he d in n o l e s s a p ub l i c at i on t h an S c i en c e , wh i ch i s t h e o ff i c i a l o u t l e t o f t h e T r ip l e - A - S , Ame r i c an As s o c i a t i on fo r t h e Advan ceme n t o f S c i en c e . I f you l i s t en i n on the mat hema t i c i an s and t h e nuc l e a r p hy s i c i s t s ch a t t i n g b ac k and fort h b e tween p ub l i c at i o n s l i ke S c i en c e and N a t u re i n En g l an d an d s uch l i ke , i t i s mo s t i l l umin a t i n g . O f cours e , a n o rm a l p e rs on c an on l y unde r s t an d ab out one w o r d i n 5 0 0 , b ut y o u c an g e t t h e d r i ft o f i t i f you h a ve b e en to h i gh s ch o o l . The re fo re , it is p o s s i b l e t hat t h i s p l an e t m ay h ave b e e n b e i n g v i s i t e d s i n c e eve r - - s i n c e eve n , p e rh ap s , b e fo re i t wa s found by o th e r i nt e l l i g e n ce s , e i t h e i mach i n e s o r o t h e rw i s e .

N ow , l e t me ge t r i d o f one t h i n g . As the un i ve rs e i s s uc h a v a s t p l a c e - - i n c i de nt a l ly , t he re i s a s u g g e s t i on t h e re may b e o th e r un ive r s e s a s we l l , and i f the re a re o th e r un ive r s e s o r s p a c e - t im e c o n t inuum - - t h ey m ay b e i n f i n i t e i n n umb e r , t o o , s o w e a re b e g inn i n g t o ge t a l i tt l e comp l i c at e d . Howeve r , s ho u l d t h e re b e l iv i n g i n s p a c e o r i n t he ext reme uppe r a t mo s p he re o f p l an e t ary b o d i e s or o t he r b o d i e s , l i fe f o rm s , how c ou l d t h i s b e p o s s i b l e ?

The re wa s one Coun te s s Wa s s i l k o - S e re c k i , o f whom many o f you may h ave h e a r d , e s p e c i a l ly th o s e i nt e re s t e d i n a l l k in ds o f m at t e rs , s uc h as E S P and a s t ro l o gy a n d s uch , a ve ry wonde r ­ful l a dy i n Aus t r i a , an d s he p ropoun de d a t he o ry i n 1 9 4 8 t o t h e e ff e c t t h a t t h e r e c ou l d b e s uch c re a t ure s , and s h e founde d i t on t he ve ry s imp l e s t at ement t h at we , a s human be i n g s and a l s o o t he r an i ma l s , fe e d on mat t e r . We m ay ab s o rb a l i t t l e s un l i gh t , b ut w e c an ge t a l on g w i th out i t s P l an t s , o n the ·

o t h e r h an d , fe e d h a l f o n mat t e r i n the fo rm o f l i q u i ds t aken i n t h ro u gh t he i r r o o t s and air an d s o on , an d h a l f on s un l i gh t , wh i ch i s pure e n e r gy ; and a l l s h e s a i d w a s , why c o u l d t h e re n o t b e l i fe fo rm s l i v i n g on e n e r gy a l on e , wi t h out mat t e r ? An d i f t h e re c ou l d b e s uch - - a g a i n t h e q ua l i fy i n g wo rd " co u l d " ; I am n o t mak i n g any s t at e me n t s th i s a ft e rn oon or at any o t h e r t ime , I am s p e c u l a t i n g - - i f the re c o u l d b e s uch c re a ture s , whe re wou l d t h ey b e mos t l i ke l y t o l i ve ? I n t he e x t reme upp e r a t m o s p h e re , wh i ch me ans they c o u l d a l s o l i ve out s i de the upp e r atmo s ph e re ; wh i ch c ome s r i gh t b ack aga in t o t h e s ame t h in g , wh i ch i s t o s ay t he y c ou l d l ive in s p ac e wh e re t h e re i s p l en t y o f r a w ene r gy avai l ab l e f rom s t a r s a n d o th e r s uch b o d i e s wh i ch a re r a d i a t i n g .

Al l r i ght e Now , i t i s ve ry i n t e re s t in g t o n o t e t h at one , . A ime M i che l e , who s e b o o k s y o u m ay h ave he a r d o f , many o f you ,

b e c au s e I t h ink you a re a l l ve rs e d on t h e s ub j e c t ; o the rwi s e ,

r

9 8

you wou l dn ' t b e h e r e . He wro t e two b o o k s , one o f wh i ch was " The F l y i n g Sauc e r an d the S t ra i gh t L i ne The o ry . " That was about 1 9 5 2 , s omewhe re a roun d t h e re . He p o in t e d out t ha t rep o rt s on UAOs , when p l o t t e d on a map , w e n t i n s t ra i gh t l in e s , and h e c a l l e d t he m o rt h o t en i c l ine s . We l l , I don ' t kn ow i f L e x Me b an e i s i n t he ro om - - I w i s h he we re - - but h e wa s o n e of t h e g re at s i n t he e ar l y d ay s of s e r i ous s au c e r re s e arch . He d i d a l i t t l e e xp e r ime n t , wh i ch I w i tne s s e d , wh i ch was s imp l y e n c h an t i n g . He g o t a b i g b o a rd , b i g p i e ce o f wh i t e c ardb o a r d , and h e go t s ome p oppy s e e ds wh i ch are roun d , and he wen t l i ke t h i s ( th rowi n g mo t i on ) w i th the p oppy s e e d s and wa i t e d t i l l t he y s e t t l e d down at ran dom , and h e t o o k a sp ray c an o f p l as t i c , t h e n he s t uck t he p oppy s e e ds down so that t h ey c ou l dn ' t move aroun d , and then he wen t to s e a rc h i n g fo r o rt ho t en i c l ine s , wh i ch me an s mo re t h an two or three s e e ds i n a s t ra i gh t l in e .

We l l , p r a c t i c a l ly the who l e l o t c ou l d b e l i nke d up by s t ra i gh t l i n e s , an d we h ad one in wh i ch as far as we c ou l d s e e w i th a ve ry p owe r fu l h an d l en s , t h e re we re 1 5 6 p oppy s e e d s i n an e x ac t l y s t ra i gh t l in e . But t h i s i s a m a t h ema t i c a l p rob l em - - g e ome t r i c a l - - wh i ch i s ent i re l y at ran dom . How ­eve r , Aime M i c h e l e h a d go t s ome l i ne s runn i n g a l l ove r F r an c e . My m o t h e r wa s F re n c h , I s t i l l h ave s ome re l a t i ve s ove r t he re , and one o f t he m h ap p e n s t o b e a rathe r p rom i n e n t p e r s on i n t h e f i e l d o f avi at i on , an d s ome t h i n g dawn e d up on me . I b e gan t o l o o k a t A ime Mi che l e ' s l i n e s , an d s o I wro t e t o t h i s f r i e n d an d s a i d , " Co u l d you s en d m e ove r s ome c op i e s o f t h e comme rc i a l a i r l ine map s wh i ch a re put out b y comme r c i a l a i r l ine s and a l s o by the m i l i t a ry s h ow i n g t he b e ame d channe l s from one l an d i n g g round t o ano t h e r ? " H e s a i d he woul d , an d h e d i d , and imme ­d i a t e ly A ime M i che l e ' s g r i d fe l l r i gh t on t op o f t h i s .

Then we b e gan t o f i n d the s e n o d a l p o in t s whe re mo re one or more or two or more o f A ime M i ch e l e ' s l i ne s c r o s s e d , and , b y j in go - - I don ' t rememb e r t h e f i gu re s n ow , b e c aus e I h ave a memo ry l i ke a s i e ve , b ut e ve ry s in g l e one o f tho s e n o d a l p o in t s h a d a p owe r s t at i on l o c a t e d a t i t . The re was t h e re s ome man - ma de ma ch i n e ry to de ve l op e i t h e r e l e c t r i c a l e n e r gy o r o th e rw i s e , o the r f o rm o f e n e rgy , e l e ct r i c a l , i t wou l d b e , i n t ho s e days , o f cours e . S o w e t r i e d do i n g i t w i t h Aus t ra l i a from map s o f Aus t ra l i a , an d s o on w e foun d o u t - - t h i s i s 1 2 y e a r s ago , more than t h a t - - tha t t he s e t h i n g s we re fo l l ow i n g l i n e s whe re w e w e r e r a d i a t i n g c l o s e - b e am ene r gy an d hove r i n g a roun d p owe r p l an t s . They a l s o s e eme d t o b e b e comi n g deep l y i n t e re s t e d in a t om i c ene rgy p l an t s .

Then , o f c ou r s e , 1 2 y e a r s l a t e r c ome s Mr . John Ful l e r w i t h " I n c i de n t a t E xe t e r " - - an d you p rob ab l y h a d th i s fo r t h e l as t two days - - ( I c o u l dn ' t b e h e re , I h a d t o go t o a we d d i n g - - o f a l l r i d i cu l ou s t h i n gs ! Ve ry n i c e young man ,

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ve ry n i c € youn g l ady . I p r om i s e d h im , " I wi l l not l e t y o u down , " s o I drove 7 0 m i l e s t o t h e w e d d i n g ) - - p robab l y you h ave t h i s c orn i n g o u t of your e a rs , but I w i l l j us t re i t e ra t e t h e fa ct t h a t t h e re i s a de f in i t e c o nn e ct i on b e tween ce r t a i n typ e s o f UAO s a n d our p ower s y s t em , o u r gr i d s y s t em . As a ma t t e r o f fact , i f y ou are n o t a l l g o i n g t o s l e ep o r dropp i n g de ad o f t h e h e a t , o r o f b o re dom , a n d i f J i m s ay s w e h ave a l i t t l e t ime when I g e t t h rough , the re i s a gen t l eman he re who h a s r e a d eve ry t h i n g about t h i s , the EM e ffe ct s , the

· e ffe c t s

up on c a r s ' e n g i ne s , wh i ch s t al l and then t h e l i ght s d im and a l l t h a t s t u f f , an d the ra d i o goe s o ff an d then they c ome b a c k on a g a in w i t h out us i n g the s � l f - s t a rt e r . And t hen , o f cours e , i t ' s a l l t i e d i n w i th th e s e mas s i ve b l ack out s t ha t we h ave b e e n h av in g . Don ' t t h i nk t h at th i s l i t t l e j ob he re we h a d in t he E a s t wa s the b i g ge s t one we h ave e ve r h a d . We h a d one i n t h e Mi dwe s t p re v i o u s ly , ab out fo ur o r f i ve ye ars ago , wh i ch b l ac k e d out a much g re at e r are a . The one i n Me x i c o C i ty , i n t h a t a re a , Cue rn avac a , wh i ch o c curre d about a we e k a ft e r our No rt h e a s t e rn b l ackout ; the t e l ephone s went out as we l l . Th e t e l ephone comp an i e s h a d t h e i r own gene ra t o rs e But t h i s gen t l eman c ou l d t e l l you a gre at de a l ab out t h a t , b e c aus e h e i s an e l e c t roma gne t i c e n g i n e e r o

The p o in t i s th i s one typ e - - one typ e , I don ' t s ay one k in d , one t yp e - - of UAO is de f in i t e l y i nt e re s t e d an d hove r s a ro un d our p owe r p l an t s , p ro duc t i on cen t e r s , a n d a l on g o u r p owe r l in e s . Th i s i s a l l i n John Ful l e r ' s b o o k , " I n c i de n t a t E x e t e r . " Now , t h i s b r i n gs m e b ac k rathe r ne a t l y t o what I s t a rt e d t o s ay : I know n on e o f you in t h i s room - - n o , in t h i s r o om y o u m i ght b e l i e ve what I s ay . The ave ra ge aud i en c e I t a l k t o on t h i s , ! · a lway s s t a r t o f f by s ay i n g , "You a r e n o t g o i n g t o be l i eve o n e s in g l e wo rd I s ay f rom now on , an d i f y ou c arne h e re t o b e ent e rt a ine d , l e t ' s g e t o n w i th i t . "

But one k in d o r one t yp e c ou l d b e ene rgy - e at i n g an imat e ob j e c t s , and whe n we inve nt e d o r d i s cove re d how t o �anufac ture e l e c t r i c i ty - - it ' s a ve ry s i l ly word , we n e e d a b e t t e r wo rd fo r i t , b u t s t i l l - - an d s t a r t e d s en d i n g out fre e ene r gy no t o n l y i n g r i d s y s t ems a n d a l on g l i n e s , b u t a l s o wi th our o rd i n ary r ad i o an d t e l ev i s i on b ro ad c a s t s , an d n ow t he s e con foun de d 3 0 0 -and 4 0 0 - fo o t t owe rs t h a t we h ave f o r u l t ra - h i gh - frequency t e l ephone c ornrnun i c at i on , they a re pour i n g o u t en e r gy - - the s e t h in g s . We l l , n a tural ly , ' i f t he re i s s o rt o f a " s p a c e an ima l " - - l e t ' s make i t s imp l e , i t ' s a fre e l un c h c oun t e r . ( L aught e r � ) They don ' t h ave t o hove r a round out t h e re . Prev i ous ly mo s t o f t h e r ad i at i on corn i n g t o t h i s p l an e t w a s b l anke d out , a s you kn ow , by o u r atmo s ph e re , so wh a t woul d t h ey wan t to c ome h e re fo r ? But n o w t h i s i s g r e a t , t o come down an d s u c k t he p owe r o A l l r i gh t , t h a t ge t s r i d o f t h a t l o t . ( L au gh t e r . ) " I am n ot m ak i n g t h i s up , y o u know , " i n t h e famou s words o f Ann a Ru s s e l l �

1 0 0

We t hen c ome t o t h e mach i n e typ e , and I wi l l make my p o i n t and th en g e t o ut o f h e re , o r at l e a s t l e t you out , p o o r t h in g s . I t ' s b e t t e r i n s i de t h an ou t s i de t o day , I c an t e l l you , d e s p i t e my s en s i b l e c l o t h in g . I t ' s ve ry h o t . A l l r i ght , n ow , t h e mach i n e s mus t h ave b e en ma de by s ome t h in g & An d a v e ry c omp l i c at e d - l o o k i n g mach i n e cou l d b e made by a ve ry m i s e r ab l e - l o o k in g b l ob o f s t u f f . On t he o the r h an d , t o make a re a l l y b i g mach i ne t ake s an awfu l l o t o f p l ann i n g . Jus t t ak e one o f our l a rg e j e t s , fo r i n s t an c e . I f y o u knew t h e numb e r of t ho us an ds o f p e op l e who were i nvo l ve d in g e t ­t i n g t he £ i r s t p ro t o typ e o f f t h e g roun d ! I b e l i eve T ime Maga z i n e d i d a rathe r n i c e l i t t l e p i e c e on t h a t once . F i r s t o f a l l , y o u h ave g o t t o h ave t he p l anne r s , t h e t h inke rs , whom I c a l l the c re at o r s . You h ave got t o h ave the concep t o f mak i n g a mach i n e wh i ch w i l l d o wh at you want i t t o do ; l e t u s s ay , sp a c e t rave l : i n t r a s p a c e - - t h a t me an s w i t h in our un i ve r s e - - o r mayb e i n t e rs p a c e , b e twe e n ano t he r unive rs e and ours e l ye s . You h ave t o h ave t ho s e p e op l e . Then you h ave got to t u rn t hat ove r to the p l anne rs . They have to dri � he re a l p l ann i n g . Then come t he de s i gn e rs , then come the e n g ine e rs . The n c ome a who l e s t r in g of p e op l e down t o the p o o r , wre t ch e d g re a s e monkey s o Then, i n t h e me ant ime , you h ave g o t to h ave ano t h e r b un ch of p e op l e m i n i n g me t a l . (An d why e ve ryb o dy t h i n k s j us t b e c aus e i t i s a mac h i n e i t mus t h ave b e en made o f me t a l - - t h a t con fus e s me , t o o . ) And t h e n y o u h ave g o t t o bu i l d an a i rp o rt , and t h e n you h ave g o t t o do a l l k i n d s o f t h i n g s , and f i n a l ly , y o u kn ow , you mus t b r i n g i n a l l k in d s of j un k , you h ave got to get fue l an d e ve ry t h i n g e l s e t o p ut a l l th i s gre a t t h i n g t o ge t he r . Then y o u h ave got to make i t f l y , an d it p rob ab ly won ' t , an d t hen you h ave to s t art a l l ove r a ga i n . An d on l y a t the end come s a r a t h e r imp o rt ant p e r s on ; h e i s c a l l e d the p i l o t . The p i l o t ha s n ' t t h e fo g g i e s t n o t i on h ow t o make th i s mach i n e , and wh en y o u ge t ve ry a dvan ce d ma ch i n e s , he p ro b ab ly doe s n ' t know how to run i t . He is g i ven a b un ch o f b u t t on s t o p re s s , an d he p re s s e s t he m on s ch e du l e , and the ma ch i n e is s upp o s e d to do th i s , t h a t , or the o t he r .

S ome o t h e r k i n d s o f UAOs com i n g h e re cou l d b e ve ry c omp l i c a t e d mach ine s wh i ch are run by a bunch o f mo rons . The p i l o t s - - in fact , n o t h i n g a ga i ns t the t ruck i n g in dus t ry , a l s o w i t h a b ow t o Mr o H o f f a , b e c aus e i t was found a t on e t ime t h a t p e rs on s - - l e t u s p ut i t t hi s way - - w i t h s in gu l a r l y l i t t l e fo rm a l e du ca t i on made much b e t t e r t ruck d r i v e r s , o n l on g h au l s , t h an c o l l e ge p ro fe s s o rs , b e c aus e they t h i n k ab out t he i r d r i v i n g on ly and t hey don ' t s t art humm i n g mat hema t i ca l formu l a e wh i l e they a re t u rn i n g s h a rp cu rve s i n New Je rs ey � The re fo re , t h e p i l o t s c ou l d b e o f p re t ty l ow l e ve l o

O f cours e , mayb e t hey c ou l d b r i n g one o f the c re a t o rs o r p l anne rs , o r e n g i n e e rs , o r b o t t l e wa s h e r s , o r t e chn i c i an s , o r

. '

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t e chn o l o g i s t s wi t h t he m , you know , j us t as t o u r i s t s . F o r , a f t e r a l l , we mus tn ' t ove r l o o k the fact t ha t s ome o f t he s e c ou l d b e he re me re l y a s a t ou r i s t e nt e rp r i s e . The p i l o t do e s n ' t h ave t o b e i nt e l l i ge n t a t a l l . The re i s ano t h e r l i t t l e t h i n g . I don ' t kn ow i f you rememb e r a sma l l g rap e ­f ru i t - s i z e d j ob c al l e d Sputn i k I , wh i ch was s ho t up by the Rus s i an s s ome t i me b a c k . I n c i de n t a l ly , t h e re is a n i ce p i e c e o f w i p i n g i f I eve r he ard i t . T h e th i n g w a s a l l e ge d t o b e o f f i c i a l l y t h e s i z e o f a g r ap e fru i t , an d w e we re t o l d you c ou l d see i t . We l l , I l o o k e d t h rough a p a i r of 2 0 - 2 0 b in o cu l a r s a t my n e i ghb o r ' s app l e o rc h a rd t o t ry and f i n d an app l e on a t re e , an d I c an ' t do i t . And t h i s i s suppo s e d t o b e 4 , 0 0 0 m i l e s up ! W e we re t o l d t h a t w e c ou l d wat c h i t . Rubb i s h ! Pure l i e s !

Anyway , whe n i t wen t up i t c re a t e d qui t e a chan ge o f op i n i on o n a l l o f t h i s , b e c aus e once t hey g o t Sp u t n i k up , t h ey t h e n s ho t up t wo do g s . The l e ad do g was n ame d L a i k a , rememb e r , an d i t p e r fo rme d a ve ry u s e fu l purp o s e . We s h o t u p a l i t t l e g r e en s qu i r re l - m onkey , and t he n w e s ho t up a c h i mp an z e e , wh i ch i s s l i gh t ly more i n t e l l i ge n t t han mo s t o f u s - - i t do e s n ' t t h i n k , e i th e r , i t do e s o n l y e x a c t ly wha t i t i s t o l d . D o i t l i k e : " P re s s t h a t but t on . " Howeve r , L a i k a h a s b e c ome a s o rt o f s ymb o l for s ome t h i n g wh i ch I t h i n k i s ve r y , ve ry i n t imat e ly conn e c t e d w i t h UAOs , UFOl o gy . The re i s n o e a rt h ly re a s on why i n t e l l i ge n t b e i n g s s houl d n o t p u t L a i k a s - - I ' m n o t s p e a k i n g o f t h e c ame ra ( Oh , de a r , a p un ; I n e ve r t h ought o f t h a t ) - - p u t a d o g i n , o r s ome t h i n g o f t h a t ave r a ge l eve l o f i n t e l l i ge n c e an d s h o o t i t o f f o n an e xp l o ra t o ry e xp e d i t i on .

Now , we h a ve b e en h a v i n g rep o r t s fo r t he l as t c oup l e o f y e a rs wh i ch h ave a l a rme d me ve ry much , and I don ' t l i ke i t . I am b a s i c a l l y a z o o l o g i s t , an d I wro t e a b o o k o n ano t h e r s ub j e c t t h a t h a s i n t e re s t e d me a l l my adul t l i fe : Th e Ab omi n ab l e S n owman - - The S l i gh t ly Unp e r s on ab l e Woo dsman , I t h i nk wou l d b e b e t t e r . But , s t i l l

Th e n I s t a r t g e t t i n g rep o rt s o f s uch ve ry t a l l , comp l e t e ly human - l o o k i n g p e op l e h av i n g ve ry h uman - l o ok in g t racks ( wh i ch y o u w i l l s e e i n my l i t t l e e xh i b i t out t h e re ; I ' ve go t s ome p l a s t e r c a s t s ) but cove re d w i th h a i r , mos t ly b e i n g very un ­p l e a s an t t o y o un g l ad i e s i n t he i r upp e r t e en s , and two o r t h r e e o f t he m g o t b l ack e y e s l as t y e a r - - a l l e ge dl y - - wat ch t h e q u a l i fy in g wo rds - - f rom one of t he s e c re a t u re s . Now , we h ave t he s e c re a t u re s in the l l ima l ay a s , t he S a s qu a t ch typ e o f t h e No rthwe s t T e r r i t o ry , and i f y o u re a l ly want t o s e e a j un g l e and a w i l d a re a , g o t o B r i t i s h C o l umb i a , an d don ' t s ay i t ' s imp o s s i b l e . You c an un de rs t an d h a i ry p r im i t ive s , human b e i n gs , o r human o i d - - n o , homi n i ds t urn i n g up aroun d t h e re and s ome g i an t ap e runn i n g a round t he H im a l aya s , but whe n t hey t u rn e d

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up a t t he out s k i r t s o f C in c inn a t i an d the out s k i rt s o f Van c o uve r C i ty , i t b e g i ns t o g e t a l i t t l e b i t - - an d I make the pun i n t ent i on a l ly - - "ha i ry " - - and i n eve ry c a s e it i s i n c o n j un ct i on w i th an a l l e ge d t ouch down o r l an d i n g o f an UAO . I don ' t wan t t o h ave any th i n g t o do w i th i t , p l e a s e Q I t ' s ge t t i n g t o o k oo k i e a l t o g e t he r .

F rank l y , i t i s p o s s i b l e an d , I th ink , even t h e p roba ­b i l i t y i s fa i r l y h i gh t h a t t h e re cou l d b e l e ftove r p r im i t ive human b e i n g s , human type s , i n s ome o f our wi l de rne s s a re a s . But p l e a s e don ' t h ave s ome one e xp e c t me t o b e l i e ve t h a t t h ey a r e from f ly i n g s auc e rs o r s ome t h i n g .

Then i t dawn s , mayb e t h i s i s a g ro up o f humano i ds , n o t human s , b e c aus e , as Pro fe s s o r G ay l o rd S imp s on , I s upp o s e our g re at e s t p a l e on t o l o g i s t an d e vo l ut i on i s t t o day at H a rvard , h a s p o i n t e d out ve ry s u c c i n c t ly an d fo rc i b ly i n an art i c l e o n human b i o l o gy , t h a t , p a ra l l e l e vo l u t i on n o t w i t h s t an d in g , t h e p o s s i b i l i ty o f a h uman b e in g e vo l v i n g mo re t han on c e i n o u r un i ve rs e i s s o vas t t h a t i t ' s j us t i mp rob ab l e � Even h e d i d n o t s ay i mp o s s i b l e , he s a i d imp rob ab l e . On t he othe r h an d , t he re c ou l d b e human - typ e - l o o k i n g c re ature s wi t h i n te l ­l i g e n c e , o r , l i ke ours e l ve s , p rac t i c a l l y none , runn in g aroun d , an d p e op l e o f g re at i nt e l l i gence , o r e n t i t i e s o f g r e a t i n t e l ­l i ge n c e m a k i n g a UAO , f o r i n s t an c e , and a s c i en t i f i c inve s t i ­g a t i on o f t h i s s o l a r s y s tem o r t h i s g a l axy , o r wha t h ave y o u , o r t h i s t ime s l o t . They m i gh t p i ck up s ome o f the s e c re atures a l o n g t he way an d s e e i f they c oul d b re e d wi th our fema l e s an d s e e i f t h ey c ou l d b re a the our a tmo s p he re an d s e e i f they c ou l d d i ge s t our fo o d . I t woul d s ave an awful l o t o f t ime , i n s t e ad o f h av i n g a l l o f t h e s e l on g - di s t ance mon i t o r ing p rob e s , and s o on an d s o f o r t h , t o do the wh o l e th i n g in one b a n g s h o o t .

Th a t l e ads me t o t h e l as t - - no , two mo re obn o x i ous i t ems comi n g up . F i r s t , t he l i t t l e men , t he l i t t l e c re a ture s . I h ave y e t t o f i n d a c a s e , i n c i dent a l ly , o f one o f t hem b e i n g g re e n . Bu t t h e re a re many c as e s o f t hem having b e en s a i d - ­

qu a l i fy i n g wo rd , s a i d - - t o h ave b e e n we a r i n g green un i fo rms an d even b ra s s but t on s , wh i ch mak e s i t n i ce .

Th i s i s whe re I g e t i n t o my own s tu f f . Sp rague de C amp , t he ve ry f amous s c i en c e f i c t i on wri t e r , and W i l l y Ley , who , y o u k n ow , i s a rocke t ry e xp e rt - i n c i de n t a l ly , he a l s o was t ra in e d a s a p a l e on t o l o g i s t - wo rk e d o u t s ome y e a rs a go a ve ry marve l ou s t he o ry , an d i t i s n ow pub l i s he d i n what I b e l i e ve i s now An a l o g , b u t I a m n o t qu i t e s ure - - I am wa i t ­i n g t o he a r from Wi l l y ab out i t c They s t arte d o ff a s an e n g i ne e r and a t h i n ke r , an d t h ey s a i d : Now , i f you want t o h ave a n i n t e l l i ge n t human b e i ng me ch an i c a l ly , how d o y o u go ab out i t ? They went t h rough a l l t he s t age s o f evo l u t i on .

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F i rs t , i t ' s g o t t o b e i n t he a i r , b e c aus e you c an ' t i nven t me t a l l u r gy unde r wa t e r , an d i t ' s g o t t o h ave two l imb s t o b r i n g fo o d up t o i t s mout h , and eye s s o i t c an wa tch f o r enemi e s wh i l e e at i n g , l i k e the L e murs d i d . And then i t ' s go t t o h ave f in ge rs t o man i pu l at e t h i n g s o Lemurs c an s o r t o f h o l d t h i n g s , but l ac k a t humb , wh i ch i s the mo s t e s s en t i a l th i n g e Next , t hen , the a rms have got t o be ab l e t o ro t at e . You c an s c ra t ch e ve ry p a rt o f your b o dy , i f you t ry ve ry h a rd - - i t ' s a ma rve l ous de ve l opment me c h an i c a l ly . An d they wo rke d i t o u t . By the t ime they h a d done t h e who l e t h i n g en t i re l y and emp i r i c a l l y s t art i n g from a DNA mo l e cul e t h rou gh a b l ob o f p r o t op l as m , t h ey c ame out w i t h s ome t h i n g e x t ra o r d i n a ri ly l i k e h uman b e i n gs a s the mo s t e ff i c i en t dev i ce · fo r ge t t i n g ab out , m a i n t a i n i n g i t s e l f , rep r o duc ing , an d h av i n g a l i t t l e t ime l e ft ove r t o t h i n k �

S o t h e r e c ou l d b e o t he r humano i ds - - n o t hom in i ds , but human o i d t yp e s - - f rom an i n f in i t e numb e r o f o t h e r p l ane t s g o i n g a ro un d o th e r s un s i n our o r o t h e r g a l ax i e s o An d t h e re fore anyb o dy who i s g o i n g to turn a roun d an d s ay , ' 'Al l hone s t c i t i z e n s t h ro u ghout t he wo r l d wh o swe a r they h ave s e en human o i d c r e at ure s of ve ry s ma l l s t a ture are l i a rs , " are , I t h i n k , j us t b l i t he r i n g i d i o t s . The ma s � o f mat e r i a l n ow i n o n t h e s e c re at ur e s i s c o r re l at ive - - y o u s e e , a l mo s t t h e i den t i c a l t h i n g h a s b e en de s c r i b e d b y t o t a l ly i l l i t e ra t e t r i b e smen i n , fo r i n s t an c e , New G u i n e a an d b y b ackwo o ds p e a s an t fa rme rs in B r a z i l who h ave n o t he ard eve r o f a f l y ing s au c e r , c ann o t read or wr i t e , and by p e o p l e in t he Un i t e d S t a t e s , N o rt h e rn I t a l y , a n d Rus s i a , an d ye t they g ive t h e i de n t i c a l de s c r i p t i on s . I f they are ly i n g , we l l , we mus t h ave men t a l t e l ep a t hy o r s ome t h i n g g o i n g on , I don ' t know . But i t ' s b e y o n d me . Anyhow , t he re coul d b e s uch c re a ture s .

Du r i n g Wo r l d W a r I I when we we re b u i l d i n g a l o t o f b i g b omb e rs i n a hur ry , we emp l oy e d men o f ve ry s ho rt s t a ture , be t he y dwa r f s o r wh at e ve r you c a l l t h e m t e chn i c a l l y from t h e me d i c a l p o i n t o f v i ew , t o go i n t o p l a ce s whe re b i g men c ou l dn ' t c r awl i n to . S o i t ' s qu i t e p o s s i b l e t h a t the i n t e l ­l i ge n t c re at u re s wh o make s ome o f th e s e th i n gs may b e emp l oy ­i n g l i t t l e t yp e s t o f l y them an d t o come he re t o do s p e c i f i c j ob s , l i k e g a t he r i ng up s e awo o d and p e op l e , and s o o n and s o fo r th Q

S o i t ' s a l s o p o s s ib l e , t ho u gh I t h in k i t ' s more a gg rava ­t i n g , t h a t we coul d have 7 - fo o t g i an t s be i n g put down h e re t o f i n d out v a r i ous th i n gs - - the s e t ou gh c h app i e s b e i n g s en t here t o do s p e c i f i c j ob s . An d don ' t fo rge t C o r a l L o re n z e n ' s b o ok , i f y o u h ave n o t re ad i t . Once t he s e qua i n t l i t t l e humano i ds h ave b e en f i re d at a t p o in t - b l an k ran ge , i n Hop ­k in s v i l l e , Ke n tucky - - and when t hey s ho o t down t he re , t hey re a l l y s h o o t - - but we re l e ft comp l e t e ly undamage d . The

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b u l l e t j us t b oun c e d o ff i n t o t h e t re e s �

Al s o , i n Vene z ue l a t h e re are c a s e re p o rt s o f t he s e l i t t l e c re a t ure s , o r human o i ds , h av i n g b e e n s l as h e d a t w i t h a kn i fe and t h e b l ade h av i n g g l an c e d o ff , b e n t o r s n ap p e d . I t l o o k s a s i f they are made o f s ome k in d o f me t a l l o - c e r am i c , and don ' t t h i nk t ha t t he o n l y t h i n g t h at a l i fe form c an b e made o f i s l i ke our s k i n . He ave n s t o B e t s y ! a C a d i l l ac i s m a de o f me t a l and c e ram i c s , g l as s and al l t he re s t o f i t , an d wha t ab out our n ew c omp ut e rs ?

We l l , anyhow , wha t I am t ry i n g t o p o i n t out now - - I h ave 3 m in u t e s , 3 1 s e c o n d s o f rad i o l e ft - - i s t h e immen s i ty o f the un i ve rs e , the i mmen s i t y of the p ro b ab l y much g re at e r range o f p ro b ab i l i ty t h an a l o t o f p e op l e wou l d l i ke u s t o b e l i eve , an d t h e re fore I t h i n k w e s h ou l d t ake a s e c on d ve ry h ard l o o k a t wha t eve ryb o dy s ay s ab out th i s s ub j e ct and don ' t t ak e "No " fo r an answe r .

Do n o t f o r g e t , a l s o , t h a t y ou c an go t o a mov i e h ous e o r y o u c an go t o a mo t e l o r you c an go t o your own l i v i n g r o om an d tu rn on t h e t e l ev i s i on and s e e t h a t e xq u i s i t e c re at ure , G i n a L o l ob r i g i da - - i f s h e h app e n s t o b e in t he p i c t u re , t h a t i s . No one c an make a m i s t ak e - - t h a t i s , n o m a n c an , I don ' t know ab out y o u l ad i e s - - b ut s he i s n o t re a l l y t h e re . T h a t i s a p ro j e ct i on . Now , you c an a l s o t urn o n a mov i e v i a t e l e v i s i on an d s e e t h a t o th e r e xqu i s i t e c re a t u re , Ma r i l yn Mon roe . Tha t i s a p ro j e c t i on o f a rathe r d i f f e r e n t n a t u re . She h a s n ' t b e en w i t h us f o r f i ve ye ars , but s h e i s t h e re fo r e ve ryb o dy t o s e e . Don ' t f o r ge t that t h a t is a l s o p o s s ib l e i n n ature , an d we may b e s e e i n g t h rough - - they m ay be j us t l i k e p ro j e ct i on s - - from ano t h e r s p a c e ­t ime c on t i nuum . You w i l l neve r c at ch one o f t h o s e , B r o t he r , n o t e ven o u r p o o r , h a rd - wo rk i ng A i r F o r c e .

And on t hat ra the r s ad n o t e I w i l l l e ave you . Thank y o u fo r your k in d a t t en t i on . (App l aus e e )

( I VAN SANDERSON i s one o f the wo r l d ' s l e a d i n g n at u r a l i s t s Q A g r a duat e o f E n g l an d ' s C amb r i dge Un i ve r s i ty , he h a s fo r t he p a s t 4 0 y e a r s de vo t e d h ims e l f t o a gre a t numb e r o f fa s c i nat i n g p ro fe s s i on s and h o b b i e s , i n c l u d i n g e xp e d i t i on s t o many remo t e p a r t s o f th e wo r l d , s p on s o re d by var i o us o f t h e wor l d ' s l e a di n g mu s e ums o Aft e r c om i n g t o the Un i t e d St at e s in 1 9 4 7 , h e was s e e n freque n t l y a s a gue s t on l e a d i n g rad i o and t e l e ­v i s i on p ro grams an d h a s had s eve ral s h ow s o f h i s own . H i s l i t e ra ry output i n c l ude s more t h an 2 0 vo lume s o n z o o l o g i c al s ub j e c t s , i n c l ud i n g " The Ab o m i n ab l e Snowman , " and coun t l e s s m a g a z i n e a rt i c l e s . Mr . S an de rs on c ome s t o our p o d ium b e c aus e o f h i s l i fe - l on g in t e re s t i n t he s c i en t i f i c s t udy o f UFOs , mons t e rs , and o t he r " F o rt e an " o r " o f f - b e a t " phenomena . )

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MR . MOS E LEY : We have one mo re gue s t , but , unf o r t un a t e l y , i t i s n o t Roy T h i nne s . Roy T h i nn e s i s i l l o I h ave b e e n t a l k ­i n g t o h i m a l l a ft e rnoon on the t e l ephone and t o h i s man a ge r . He re a l ly i s qu i t e i l l , and h e i s n o t ab l e t o come t o day . He was h e re tw i ce ye s t e rday , once fo r the a ft e rno on s e s s i on , once in the eve n i n g , b ut t o d ay h e is ve ry i l l an d c ann o t make i t .

Howeve r , we do h ave a my s t e ry gue s t - - h e i s n o t mu ch o f a my s t e ry t o p e op l e who h ave c ome t o our mon t h l y me e t i n g s a t t h e Ho t e l Wo o ds t o c k , he i s n o t a mys t e ry t o t he p e op l e who h ave w a t ch e d t h e A l l en Bu rke s how o He i s on radi o and t e l e ­v i s i o n . We h ave o n l y a few m i nu t e s l e ft o We c an g ive h im about 5 t o 8 m i nut e s j us t t o roun d out our p ro g ram . He i s s omewh e re ove r t o your l e f t and my r i gh t . Mr . Al ex McNe i l l . (App l au s e . ) Th i s i s Al e xande r Mc Ne i l l , l ad i e s and gen t l emen . Th i s man i s 7 fe e t t a l l !

MR o McNE I L L : L a d i e s an d gen t l eme n , I have s ee n a f l y i n g s auc e r a t ve ry c l o s e ran ge , a t 1 0 0 ya rds . (App l aus e . ) On the n i gh t of Au gus t t h e 2 7 th , 1 9 5 2 , I s aw an ob j e ct mo ve in f rom t he n o rt h e as t to the n o r thwe s t to t he we s t . The ob j e c t wa s a f i e ry b a l l o f l i gh t wh i ch I c on s i d e re d t o be a s hoo t ing s t a r . I t was g re en i s h i n co l o r , gre en i s h - b l ue in c o l o r c om i n g in o When i t g o t i n t o the n o r t hwe s t i t move d t o the we s t . I t made a 4 5 - de g r e e t u rn t o the l e ft , and it came down a t 4 5 de gre e s i n t o a s wamp a re a . When t he o b j e c t wa s on t h e ground i t was 30 fee t i n d i ame t e r and 1 0 fee t h i gh . It had roun d w i n dows l i ke p o rtho l e s of a s h i p ac t ua l l y 3 fe e t h i gh Q I t had l i t t l e men about 3 f e e t h i gh i n s i de $

Th e o b j e c t c h an ge d co l o rs f rom b l u i s h - wh i t e , b l u i s h - g r e e n , re d d i s h - o ran g e an d b r i ght , l i ght ambe r o Whe n i t wa s in i t s r e dd i s h - o r an ge I c ou l d s e e i n dent at i on o f a "V " w i t h a l in e unde rne a t h , wh i c h wa s t h e i n s i gn i a , a n d i t had l i ke a cu rve o n t op wh i ch was l i k e a s h o rt cu rve o f t h e h a l f mo on .

The ob j e c t , t o me , gave o f f a ve ry pu t r i d o do r , made me ve ry s i ck , an d I h a d to move b ac k . I s i gn a l l e d the c ra f t wi t h a s ma l l f l a s h l i ght , a n d i t re t urne d t o m e t h re e l a rge f l a s h e s . The l i gh t wen t on an d o f f , on and o f f , on an d o ff . An d t h i s ob j e ct n e ve r c ame b a c k to my are a a g a i n , but I h ave h a d rep o r t s o f UFOs in my are a from many pe op l e . And a ve ry g o o d f r i e n d o f m i n e , a woman , wh o i s wi th WBAV . He r n ame i s J ay Powe l l , i s a ve ry g o o d announ c e r o n WBAV a t B aby l on o

And I w i l l p ay g re a t r e s p e c t s t o a l l t he p e op l e who h ave c ome to t h e c onve n t i on an d h ave g i ven me many g o o d re turn s , and I am ve ry h appy t o h ave appe a re d a t your l e c tu r e p l a t fo rm o Thank y ou ve ry much fo r your app e a ran c e . ( App l aus e . )

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MR � MOS ELE Y : We l l , l ad i e s and gent l emen , we b r i n g our p ro g ram t o a c l o s e e I wan t t o t h an k you fo r c orn i n g . We have l o t s o f b o o k s l e ft o ut t he re .

Thank you v e ry much . You h ave b e en a won de r fu l aud i en c e . G o o d a ft e rn o o n .

( Whe reupon , a t 4 : 4 5 o ' c l o c k , p . rn � , the convent i on was c on c l ude d . )

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( Reporter ' s Note : In a recent conversation with

Reverend Basile , he informed the writer that he had been

checking on the background o f Vi-Venus and had found

some rather unsavory elements and that he was go ing to

expose her in the form of a published booklet in the

near future o He also said that he had observed two

flying saucers through a telescope that evening o BJG . )