exhibit 1 - united states environmental protection agency by appeal number...the public hearing...

EXHIBIT 1

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ILLINOIS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTEC~ION AGENCY

Proposed Issuance of a Construction Permic/PSD Approval co Mississippi Lime Company in ?rairi= Du Rocher

Report of the Proceedings of the Public Hearing held on November 18., 2010, at 7: 00 p.m., at the Prairie Du Rocher Elementary School Gymnasium, 714 Middle Street, Prairie Du Rocher, Illinois, before Sharon Valerius, Notary Public and Certified Shorthand Reporter #084-003349 for the State of Illinois.

Before Hearing Officer DEAN STUDER Illinois EPA

1021 Nbrth Grand~venue East P.O. Box 19276

Springfield, IL 62794-9276

EPA· PANEL: Mr. Christopher Romaine Mr. Minesh Patel

SOUTHERN REPORTING (618) 997-8455

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MR, S~UDER: Good evenino.

just a couple of minutes a£~e~ 7:00, so we're going

to go anead and get started tnis evening. Can you

hear me in the back?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Barely.

MR. STUDER: Okay. My name is Dean

Studer, and I'm the hearing officer for the Illinois

Environmental Protection Agency. On behalf of

Director Doug Scott, I welcome you to tonight's

hearing. My purpose tonight lS to ensure that these

proceedings run properly, according ~o rules, and

that the hearing is conducted in a fair but efficient

manner. Personally I will not be responding to

specific technical issues related to the permit, but

will defer such issues to the ~echnical staff with me

tonight up here on the hearing panel.

This is an informational hearing before

the Illinois EPA in the matter of a new air pollution

control construction permit, PSD approval for

Mississippi Lime Company for a lime manufacturing

plant to be located near Prairie Du Rocher. The

plant will be located on the site of its existing

limestone mine.

The plant will produce lime by

calcination or high temperature roasting of crushed

SOUTHERN REPORTING (618) 997-84S5

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The kilns will be heated

chroueh the combustion of SOlld fuel, notably

oowdered cOQl and coke, with ore-heaters used to

orovide greater efficiency.

The plant would be a major source for

emissions of sulfur dioxide, otherwise referred to as

S02' nitrogen oxide, referred to as NO , carbon x

monoxide (CO) and Particulate Matter, PM, P M anal .. 10 '

PM under federal rules for Prevention of2. 5,

Significant Deterioration, referred to as PSD. And

those regulations are found in 40 CFR Section 52.21,

as emissions of these pollutants would be above

significant emission thresholds established in these

regulations.

The Illinois EPA has made a oreliminarv-- ~

determination that the project meets the requirements

ror obtaining a permit for the project and has

prepared a draft permit for review. The Illinois EPA

is holding this hearing for the purpose of accepting

comments from the public on the proposed issuance of

a oermit for this project prior to actually making a

final decision on this application.

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I This public hearing is being held under

the-provisions of the Illinois EPA's procedures for

permit and closure plan hearings, which can be found


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" r r..!...OC, SUDDS.C:-C

CODies of chese Drocedures can De accessed on ~he

website for the Illinois Pollutlon Control Boac:-d ac

www.iDcb.s~ate.il.us. or they can be obtained from me

upon request

An informational public hearing means

that this is stc:-ictly an information hearing. It is

an oppoc:-tunity for you to provide information to the

Illinois EPA concerning this pec:-mit. Th i s is not a

contested case hearing.

I would like to explain how tonight1s

hearing is going to proceed. First I will have the

Illinois EPA staff introduce themselves and identify

their responsibilities within the agency in regards

to this permitting action. Then a representative

from Mississippi Lime will be allowed to make a brief

presentation. Following this overview, I will allow

the public to provide comments.

You are not required to provide your

comments orally. Written comments are given the same

consideration and may be submitted to the Illinois

EPA at any time during the comment period, which ends

just before midnight on December 20, 2010. All

comments submitted by mail must be postmarked no

later than December 20, 2010. Although we will


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cOfitinus ~o a~ceDt comments through LnaL dats,

to~igh~ is the o~l\: time we will accent oral

comments.

I should also point out that the notice

for this hearing lists a comment closing date of

December 18, 2010. However, December 18 falls on a

Saturday, so I'll acceDt comments through December

20, 2010, w h i c h is the first business day after

December 18.

The tentative target date for a final

decision in this matter is December 27, 2010.

However, the actual decision date will depend upon

the number and nature of comments received, as well

as other factors.

Any person who wants to make an oral

comment may do so, as long as the statements are

relevant to the issues at hand. If you have not

signed a registration card at this point, please see

Brad Frost at the registration table, and he will

provide you with a comment card. Please be sure to

check the appropriate box on the card you desire

to make comments at this hearing this evening. If

you have lengthy comments, it may be helpful to

submit them to me in writing before the end of the

comment period, and I will ensure that they are


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included in t h e h e a r Ln c r e co r d as e x h i o i t .G..Ll

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Please keen you::- comments anc. Gues~ions

relevant to the issue at hand. If your comments ~all

outside the scope of this hearing, T may ask you to

proceed to another issue·.

The permit applicant, Mississippi Lime

Company, lS also free to respond to issues II willlng

to do so, but I am not in a position to require them

:'0 do so. Our oanel members will make evety attempt

to respond to issues raised, but I will not allow the

speakers to. argue or engage In a prolonged dialogue

with our panel.

For the purposes of allowing everyone

to have a chance to comment, I ask that everyone keep

their questions and comments to five minutes. This

should give everyone who desires to speak that

opportunity.

In addition, I'd like to stress that we

want to avoid unnecessary repetition. If anyone

before you has already presented te~timony that is

contained in your written or oral comments, please

skip over those issues when you speak. If someone

testifying before you has already said what you

desired to say, you may pass when I call your name to

come forward. Please remember, all written comments,


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whether Gr not YOu say Lhem ~loud G~ this hec~~ng

wil~ become 0: the officiol ~eco~d in

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this ma~te~ and will be COnS1Qerec.

Af~er everyone has had an opportunity

to speak, and Drovided that the time still permits,

we will allow those who eithe~ ran out of time during

thei~ initial comments or who have addi~ional

comments to sDeak.

All who complete a registration ca~d or

submit written commen~s in this maLter will be

notified of the final decision in this matter and the

availability of a responsiveness summary. In the

responsiveness summary, the Illinois EPA will atLempt

to respond to all significant lssues ~hat were raised

at this hearing or submitted to me prior to the close

of the comment period. The written record in ~his

matter again will close on December 20, 2010. I will

accept written comments as long as they are

postmarked by that date.

While the record is open, all relevant

comments and documents or da~a will be placed into

the hearing record as exhibits. Please send all

written documents to my attention. You can send them

to Dean Studer, and that last name is spelled

S-T-U-D-E-R, that's Hearing Officer, Office of


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Communi~v R2la~io~s, regarding Mississiooi ~ime New-

2 Air ~2rmi~, anc ~hat's a~ Illinois E~A, 1021 Nor~h

3 Grand Av e n u e East, ~.O. Box 19276,' Springfield,

4 Illinois, and our zip code is 62794-9276. This

address is also given on the public notice for this

6 hearing tonight.

7 For anyone wishing to make a comment, l

8 would like to remind you that we have a court

r-, ::; reporLer here who is taking a record these

proceedings ror the purpose of putting together our

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I administrative record. Thererore, f o r the benefit of_.L

I the court reporter, please keep the general

background noise in the room to a minimum, so that

she can hear everything that is said. Also, please

silence all cell phones and pagers at this time, if

you have not already done so.

~lease keep in mind that any comments

from someone other than the person who is uo front

may not be recorded by the court reporter. If you

speak over someone else, the court reporter will not

be able to take down everyone's comments. The same

rule applies to both the members of the audience and

also when someone from· the Illinois EPA Panel is

speaking.

When it is your turn to speak, please


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corne forward L:O L:D2 p o o i u m . state your name, a n o 'T

applicable, anv gove:-nmentc.l bod}', o r q a n i z a t a o n . 0:

associacion that you represent. If you do nOL:

represent: any governmental body, organization, or

association, you may simply state that you are a

concerned citizen. For the benefit of the court

reporter, ~ also ask that you spell your last name.

If your first name is spelled 2.n an unusual manner,

you may also want to spell that.

People who have requested to speak will

be called upon In the orde~ tha~ I will lay out bas~d

upon the cards that I have before me. Arter I have

gone through the cards, and assuming that there is

still time, if anyone else wishes to make a comment,

I may allow them to do so at that time.

I have marked the following exhibits:

The public hearing notice is Exhibit 1. The project

summary for air pollution control permit application

is Exhibit 2. And the draft air pollution control

construction permit is Exhibit 3.

Are there any questions on how I will

conduct this hearing this evening?

(There was no response.

MR. STUDER: Let the record indicate

that there were no hands raised. I'll now go ahead


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Danel he~e in :~on~ 0: me ~his evening. They should

incroduce themselves, and chey may make a b~le:

statement ac that eime.

MR. ROM~_INE: My name is Chris

Romaine. I manage che construction unit of the Air

Permit Section. I'm not going to make a statement

tonight. My employee is going to make one fo~ us

tonight.

MR. PATEL: Good evening, ladies and

gentlemen. Welcome to this evening's hearing. My

name is Minesh Patel. I am a permit engineer with

the Bureau of Air. I will be giving you a brief

description of the proposed project.

Mississippi Lime Company has requested

a construction permit for a lime manufacturing plant

ac its existing limestone mine located near Prairie

Du Rocher. The proposed plane would include two

pre-heater rotary kilns, storage and handling systems

for limestone, fuel, and lime, and lime hydrating

systems.

As Mr. Studer has explained, the lime

plant is subject to federal regulations for

Pr~vention of Significant Deterioration of air

quality, PSD. This is because potential emissions of


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par~i~~l2c~ matter would b~ greate~ ~han 100 ~ons Der

Accoroingly, the plane must use th~ Best

Available Cont.rol Technology, referred to as BAC'T, to

control it.s emissions of these pollutants.

For particulate emissions from the

kilns, the BACT would be provioed by fabric filters

or baghouses, whi~h are generally considered the most

effect:ve control technology for th~ partic~late

emissions from kilns.

For emissions of other pollutancs from

the kilns, BACT would be provided by the pre-heaters,

which would lower the fuel consumption of the kilns.

In addition, NO emissions from the kilns would be x

minimized by combustion management, which would

reduce the peak flame zone temperature.

emissions are controlled by natural scrubbing by

limestone and lime dust in the kilns, which is then

captured by the fabric filters or baghouses. CO

emissions would be minimized with good combustion

practices.

For emission units involved in handling

and storage of limestone, solid fuel, and lime would

be provided by operating Dractices to prevent

emissions and, for the lime product, baghouses.


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Control Technology, che plane must also perfo~m air

aualitv analyses thac assess the ootential effect of

the orooosed olant on ambient air quality. Based on

its analysis of the maximum impaccs of the proposed

plant, an~ further analysis of PSD incremenc

consumption and maximum ambien~ concentration, the

impact of proposed plant will not be significant.

The permit that Il~inois EPA is

proposing to issue for the plant would include a

variety of requirements co ensure chac che llme p~anL

is properly construcced and operated.

MR. STUDER: Can everyone hear Minesh?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: No.

MR. STUDER: Let's soo if we can get a

mike for him.

MR. PATEL: Sorry about that. The

proposed permit establishes appropriate testing,

monitoring, record-keeping, and reporting

requirements. It also includes requirements for

continuous emissions monitoring for the kilns

emissions of sulfur dioxide, 'nitrogen oxide, carbon

monoxide, and opacity.

These activities would be overseen by

Illinois EPA, which will periodically conduct on-site

SOUTHERN REPORTING (618) 997-8~55

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We :o~k fcrwarci to YQ~r

or. this proposed permit, and

for aLLending the Dearing.

MR. STUDER: Thank you, Minesh. Before

we open this up to the public for comments, it is

customary at a hearing to allow the permit applicant

to make a statement at the beginning of 'the hearing.

MR. KEITH ESPELIEN: Thank you. me

take' jusc a momenc to say thank you and welcome to

~, -pol..L. • Patel, and Mr.

reporter, and Mr. Frost leaving the room. We

appreciate you coming to conduct this hearing here in

Prairie Du Rocher.

Wolr o very excited at Mississippi Lime

to take this next step in the process to move forward

with our permit application. This has been a

three-year process for us thus far, and there's been

a lot of excellent work between a variety of

regulatory agencies, Mississippi Lime folks who are

here tonight, the community, and all of those who

either support or possibly don't support the permit

application.

We believe strongly in the process of

going through all of this so everyone has a say in

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,..-., -, .., whaL:. h a o o e n s comITIU1.:.:- t v , We wa.n::. "C.C :0s c. c:~~ I",.

this communitv as Mississicci Lime. The r e a r e 2.

dwinciling number of lime companies owned by U.S.

based companies. Mississippi Lims is one 0: the

remaining companies still headquarte~ed and based in

the United SL:.ates. We hope to be able to expand and

grow, succort our business, support the families and

community of Prairie Du Rocher by building this lime

plan':..

Products from this plant will be used

in a variety 0: ways throughout the nation, lncluding

businesses such as s"C.eel production, water treatment,

paper making, orange juice production. You don't

know maybe about all of those, but sometimes lime lS

used in orange juice production and things of that

nature.

One of the primary uses may be for

scrubbing emissions from power plants, so that the

material that we produce here in Prairie Du Rocher

will be shipped to become a scrubbing agent and clean

UD the emissions from power plants along the Ohio

River and other places throughout the United States.

So we're very excited about the

opportunity to make an investment here in the town

and become Dart of this community and move forward


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ou~ D2:""C,-i e c t. . wa.n;:. thank. ~TOU c. J. _ a c a i r: ::02:"

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comlng. ~ look fo~ward ;:'0 ::.ne queS::'lons. Thank

3 VOU.

MR. STUDER: Just for cne record,

Keith's last name is spelled E-S-P-E-L-I-E-N.

6 MR. ESPELIEN: Thank you.

7 MR. STUDER: Thank you. Okay. When I

8 ca.ll your name, if you want to speak, o Le a s e come

9 forward to the podium. ~ would ask that you use the

10 microphone, just s6 that not only we can hear you on

11 ::.he hearing panel, bu~ also so ~ha~ ~nose tha~

12 seated in the bleachers can hear, as well, since your

13 back will be toward them.

14 When you come forward, please state

1 5 yourname, any go v e 2:" n men ta 1 bod y, 0 r 9 ani z a t ion, 0 r

16 association that you represent. And then if you

17 would spell your last name for the court reporter.

18 And the first person is Elizabeth Jill Asbury.

1- a ..... MS. ELIZABETH JILL ASBURY: Hello. My

20 name is Elizabeth Jill Asbury, J:I.-S-B-U-R-Y, and I'm

21 the superintendent at t~e school here in Prairie Du

22 Rocher, so welcome. I had an opportunity last

23 Saturday with the mayor and his wife, Mr. and Mrs.

24 Doiron, to take a tour of Mississippi Lime. And so I

25 wanted to see firsthand what it looked like. And


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~~om my eXDe~~ence: wna:. I saw,

well-main:'5ined, ope~ated, and concrolled facility.

I also, as the superincendenc of :.he

school here, was concerned about how they would h~lD

our community. And from a letter that we received

from the Chamber 0: Commerce, Mississippi Lime has

been 'very generous to St. Genevieve, and so we

anticipate that same generosity :or our school and

our c o mm u n i t y . Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you, Ms. Asbury.

The next D~rson is Er~ie Doiron. One ching .L

neglected co say is that ~ will let you know when

there's about 30 seconds in your five-minute

time frame, just so that we can make sure that

everyone that wants to speak this evening has that

opportunity.

MR. ERNIE DOIRON: Gonna' have to be

lowered a little for me.

MR. STUDER; You can hold it. Is that

okay?

MR. DOIRON: My name is Ernie Doiron.

I am the president of the Village Board of Trustees

of Prairie Du Rocher. That's usually called the

mayor.

MR. STUDER: Could you spell your last


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MR. DO::::RON: D-O-I-R-O-N.

mo~,:hs ago, a ~epresentativE: 0: Mississippi Lime

with me and our village clerk, discussi~g the

possibility of a new plant. And since that time, we

have had a~ ongoing discussion with our Village

Board. A~ our last November board mee~ing, the

Village Board una~imously passed a resolution in full

SUDDort and approval 0: the proposed plant.

To get a different opinion, I contacted

St. Genevieve Chamber of Commerce, Dena Krei t Le r . the

execucive director. Her response on the pnonewas

very favorable concerning Mississippi Lime, who have

been a neighbor of the St. Genevieve community for

over a hundred years. And she also followed up with

a letter, which Jill alluded to, but 1 'm just going

to read the actual, not the whole letter, to keep it

short..

But she said: Mississippi Lime has

been a part of our history and growth for over 100

years. I truly believe that should your community be

so fortunate to have this company grow and expand in

your community, everyone wins. Not only will it

create jobs, it will also create economic develoDment

and many other opportunities within your region.

SOUTHERN REPORTING ( 6 1 8) 9 9 7 - 8 4 5 5

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I also had ~he oppo~~unity, wi~h Jill,

to tour ~ne Mississippi Lime Dlant T was v e r y

impressed how clean i~ was. And I was even mo~s

impressed when I watched the computers, which control

the data, to make sure that they a~o in compliance

with all the EPA regulations. I would wish that

everyone could tour the plant. I would think you

would come away with a very good impression. The new

technology which they showed us is the technology

they're gonna' use a~ this plant he~e in Prairie Du

Rocher, the very latest, the very b e s r .

.1. believe, and o u r Village Board

believes, that Mi~sissippi Lime is a company owned

and ope~a~ed by good people se~ving the St. Genevieve

area for ove~ a hund~ed years, providing employment

and healthcare, health insurance.

And we have people I had a lady come

to me this week and say, We are gonna' lose

everything, 'cause my husband just lost his job. And

we need employment in this area. The economic

development and the potential for employment with a

good solid company, Mississippi Lime Company, is what

we need. Thank. you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you, Mr. Doiron.


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The ~S}:: perso~ lS Ka~h~r And~ia.

MS. KATHY ANDRIA: My name ~s Ka~hy

J!.nd::-ia, p.-N-D-R-I-A. I don't have formal comments ac

this point, but T do have some questions. I will ask

a few of the questions, and then I'll come back. I'm

President of American Bottom Conse~vancy, and I'm the

Conse::-vation Chair for the Kaskaskia Group of ~ne

Sierra Club.

T ce~tainly appreciate the need for

jobs in this town, and we are not here to not support

the plant We are here ~o support bet~er controls.

And I would remind people that whenever there are

controls, more better c o n c r o Ls . those controls have

to be maintained, and there are jobs in producing

controls, and there are jobs in maintaining

concrol$.

We sit here across from St. Genevieve

County, which has the, one of the world's largest

cement kilns. The area is already non-attainment for

fine particulates, PM in Madison, St. Claire, andr- ,- ·-2 .:::J

Monroe County and part of Randoloh County, Baldwin

Township.

I'm wondering, first of all, USEPA in

their guidance for lime manufacturing, says that the

rotary kiln ~hich is proposed here is the second


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WDrs~ lTI uncon~rolled PM emiss2ons, and ~hat

f~uidized Deus nave the highes~ levels of

uncontrolled PM emissions.

And I'm Just wondering whether

consideration had been given by the company or by the

agency toward requiring stronger controls, because it

is my understanding that if the area, if this part of

Randolph Councy becomes non-attainment for fine

particulates, that that will, that will have a severe

imDact on future development. So I was wondering if

fluidized beds had been considered as a control, as a

separat~ kind of u'se iO.r the kiln.

MR. ROMAINE: I did not quite follow

the comment that you were making. You were

commenting about the uncontrolled emissions of

different types of plants?

MS. ANDRIA: I'm commenting well,

first I was commenting,, just to let you know that we

sit across from St. Genevieve County. And my

understanding from Missouri DNR is St. Genevieve

County is going to be also non-attainment for fine

particulates. We're already non-attainment for fine

particulates.

And 1 'm just wondering why we're not,

to protect the people who live here, to protect the


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2 preserves and the historic properties, why we're no~

3 requiring Lhem LO have better, the fluidized bed,

4 which has a better control, from what I understand,

5 since the rotary is the second worst.

6 MR. ROMAINE: Okay. I guess I still

don't understand the question, be2ause you des2ribed

8a technology that had higher uncontrolled emissions.

9 The key factor that we're

10 MS. ANDRIA: You're right. I'm reading

my notes wrong, and I apologize. I will come back

12 with that question.

13 MR. ROMAINE: Okay. Well, you've asked

14 I the question.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay.

16 MR. ROMAINE: The issue for control of

17 particulate matter from this kiln is the

18 effectiveness of the baghouse or fabric filter on the

19 stack. That's what's being relied upon to control

20 particulate matter emissions. Fab~ic filters are

21 considered ~he most effective device for control of

22 particulate matter where they can be applied, and

23 they certainly can be applied to lime filters, lime

24 plants J lime kilns. And the permit would establish a

25 stringent limit for the performance of the fabric


22

,i . I ::..1:. e:=.:-- .

In te~ms of commen~s with ~egard

3 particulate matter air q u a Li r y , we, as an agency, are

4 concerned about oarticulate matter ai~ qualic:y. The

~ area that is the focus of those efforts is, in fact,

6 the industrialized St. Louis, Metro East area, the

'7 indust~ialized, heavily developed urbanized area. To

8 bring that a~ea into attainment of the particulate

9 ffiat~e~ standard, the~e will have to be a number of

10 measu~es caken that roll back particulate matter

II from the sources in those areas, as well as

12 regional

precursor emissions. Those measures should act to

14 improve particulate matter air quality in outlying

15 rural areas such as Randolph County.

16 The comment was made that Randolph,

17 thac Baldwin Township in Randolph County is

18 designated as a non-attainment area', That is not

19 because of the actual air quality In that township.

20 It's because it"s the location of the Baldwin Power

21 Plant, and the Baldwin Power Plant has an impact on

22 regional air quality, given the magnitude of that

23 facility.

24 For that reason, USEPA deemed it was

25 app~opriate that it be included in the planning, in


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the e~~G~ts =0 reducE emissions 0= Bourses ~ha~

con~~ibu~e tc non-attainment a~eas. And they

specifically cut out Baldwin Township and said,

You'~e going to have to add~ess your Baldwin Power

Plant as if it were in a non-attainment area, because

it does contribute to ~he Droblems that we are

experiencing downwind.

It doesn't actually mean that ci~izens

in that communi~y ac~ually experience excessive

levels of PM alr quality. It's simply how we ~ . 1 0

address that plant into the future.

I can't speak for ~he circums~ances of

St. Genevieve County across the river. I would say,

to the extent that Missouri has identified areas in

that couniy that have prbblems, potentially due to

concentrations of sources of development or its

impact on the St. Louis area, again, the actions that

are taken in that county to reduce emissions and

improve quality will have benefits for people. living

across the river in Randolph Coun~y.

MR. ANDRIA: They're using, they're

going tobe using either coal or pecroleum coke or a

combination of both. Was consideration given, since

we're non-attainment, the other three counties are

non-attainment for ozone, was consideration given to


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na.t.urel oas?

iVlR. ROM]\_ I NE ,: Yes, it was, as discussed

in tne project summ~ry LhaL we prepared. don't

know if you have copies of it. We looked aL the cost

effectiveness of using natural gas and concluded that

the cost of using natural gas as a means to control

emissions would be excessive.

In part, that's because the sulfur

dioxide emissions from the olant would be very

well-controlled by the scrubbing action of the lime

and limestone dust as it passes through Lhe system

and is collected in the baghouse. So that the use of

naLural gas really wouldn't have much of an effect on

SO~ emissions. "

~he other difficulty with natural gas

is because of the way fuels are burned in a kiln, use

of natural gas should also be expected to result in

increase in emissions of nitrogen oxides. The

nitrogen oxides are a pollutant that has a role in

causing ozone, air quality, bad ozone levels. It

also has experienced bad effects as a precursor to

forming of fine particulate matter.

So natural gas has certain benefits

certainly. It would be advantageous in terms of

perhaps greenhouse gases. But In terms of specific


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~l~ crualitv issues, wou!d be negat~ve imp~icacion5

for nitrogen oxides, which are a concern because of

the air quality lssues that Ms. Andria nas

identified.

MS. ANDRIA: How much mercury will De

emitted?

MR. ROMAINE: ~ don't have that number

with us. We'll have to get back to you on that

number.

MS. ANDRIA: I couldn't find it

anywhere in the document.

MR. STUDER: One more question, and

then we're going to move on.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay. One more question.

Where will be the clo~est air monitor, ambient air

monitor?

I don't know; off the top

of my head. During the break, we can look at our

annual ambient air quality report and find out where

those are located. Do you happen to know, Kathy, in

preparation?

MS. ANDRIA: I think maybe perhaps

Baldwin. I don't know.

MR. ROMAINE: Well, that would be for

particulate matter, but I

SOUTHERN REPORTING ( 61 8) 9 9 7 - 8 4 5 5

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L. I be i~ Misso~ri, T would assume. i I.5 I MR. ROMAINE: It's quite possible that

Lc I the o~her monitors, ~he nearest monitors would be I

5 located across the river in Missouri.I

6 MS. ANDRIA: Is there any consideration I !

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to adding to the moni~oring network?

MR. ROMAINE: Umm

MS. ANDRIA: I know you guys are just

L'u s h III mo n e y .

MR. ROMAINE: We certainty have

concerns about our monitoring network, but this

project doesn't pose the levels of impact chac would

suggest additional monitoring is needed in this

area. We're actually working with the proposed

Prairie State Power Plant/ and they've actually

supplemented our monitoring network. I think they've

established another monitor on the outskirts of

Belleville/ which is much more useful for us to

evaluate impacts again on the developed urbanized

area, which is the major focus of our efforts to

improve air quality. That's where we need to lmprove·

air quality.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay. Thank you. I will

be back with questions after other people have


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sDoKer:.

Thank you, Kathy. .:. :l~

-- - ., -,)i.OU !' ca!'c UD a n d '_ c, ~...:... you back wheE,

t a me p e r rn i t a . wn e n we get. through the c a r c s . The- . next person 18 Rodney Linker.

MR. RODNEY ~INKER: Thank you. My name

is Rodney Linker, L-I-N-K-E-R. And T have two

perspectives from which I'd like to comment tonight.

First as a resident, landowner, and t a x p a y e r of

Illinois, I sUDDort a business that can effectively

u t a La z e a resource which our l-egion is fort..unaL.e Lo

have available and who demonstrates compliance in

excess of those required to meet the ambient air

quality standards.

Any Com~any willing to inv~st in

recovery of these types of mineral assets should have

a right, responsibility, and purpose for the people

of this country to do so. Lime is a basic material

that has been used for centuries and reDresents

nothing of a new or uncertain consequence. I

encourage IEPA to issue this permit for the benefit

of jobs in this community and the region, ror the tax

base it represents, and the support of the needs of

others who use this !'esource.

Secondly, as an officer of the company


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whc cr~a~~les ~lmes~cne lD St. Genevlev2, Missouri,

and as a cu~~ent board member cf that s~ate's

Limestone Producers Association, I wish to encourage

the issuance of De~mits to those companies that have

exhibited responsibility in the past, achieved safety

awards and recognition for their attention to

employee training and well-being, and who have

suppo~ted their communities in which they onerate.

Nume~ous companies mine and process

limestone in this ~egion :o~ a variety of purposes.

I expect all of the regulatory agencies to treat each

equally, fairly, and explicitly within the guidelines

of the existing sta~utes. The resulting message is

one that provides equal opportunity, benefits all

miners, educates and protects the general public, and

culminates in the realization that the system works.

While 1 do not imply ~hat I promote

this particular company, I do encourage issuance of

the subject permit, inasmuch as I would expect it to

be issued if I were the applicant. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you, Mr. Linker.

The next person, if I can pronounce the last name

correctly, is it Roger Melliere?

MR. ROGER MELLIERE: Roger Melliere,

M-E-L-L-I-E-R-E. I am a concerned resident of this


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.L :...... you guys Klnd 0:: explalned '.:.0 me

already '.:.hat basically when you said about ~ne

emission ~hings or whatever were aonna' be over lD

S~. GenevievE, tha~ basically kind of says you're no'c.

really, that ain't gonna' help us out. here, because

winds here are north and sou~h. So the emissions

really ain't gonna I show us here how bad it is, when

you goc:. it over there in St. Genevieve, a n d we get

north and south winds nere.

Two, you basically kind of explained or

basically kind of said already, or you haven't said

that it's not gonna' pollute our air. I think it's

gonna' pollute our air. You basically kind of, you

know, didn't say it's not gonna' pollute our air. We

have enough health reasons, problems in this

community already. I thi.nk adding another one to

; ...this is just gonna' add more to ..l...L..

To me, I do understand some people are

hurting for jobs and money. But to me, you can'~ put

a price on health. I don't care how much money you

make in life. P_nd to me, as a resident living here,

I mean, I'm a farmer. Honestly, if I would be

farming and this would get developed, I probably

would move. I'll be honest with you.

To me, my kids are the most important.


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What they com~ to school ano go out o~ ~ecess ana

have to lnhale this every day, I wouldn't say every

day, but every time we get a north wind, you guys can

say t hat, 0 n , it's go n n a' be, you k n o w , n ice t; c 1 iv e

around. But can you honestly tell me it's not gonna'

pollute any more air to it? I mean, it's gonna' be

one hundred percent, you know, to be lived by?

~ mean, is it gonna', be, umm can you

honestly sl~ there and tell me that it's gonna' be a

hundred percent safe to live by, not gonna' have any

health risks in the future, nothing's gonna' affect.

us? You basically kind of said on the papers that

it's gonna' produce, I don't remember,what all it

says, that it's gonna' produce some things out of it

that basically you're kind or admit.'cing that yeah,

it's gonna' pollute the air.

So, I mean, that's just my concern.

And I feel that I'll be honest with everybody

here. I don't want it. I mean, I do understand it's

gonna' bring money to the town or whatever. But to

me, money doesn't mean everything when it comes to

health reasons in the future. You know, you might

make a million dollars one day, but if three years

later you're not here to use it, what's the use of

making it? That's just my point.


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MR. ROMAINE: Ws certain:v respsc= yo~r

2 opinion, and we have no dispute with your personal

opinion. We're here simply to tell you chat we have

4 reviewed the application. The information that has

been Drovided to us shows that this project would

6 comply with the applicable requirements. That

i I includes keeping air quality within levels that have

8 been established and refined by the United States

9 Environmental Protection Agency as being safe for

public exposu~e. Can we say chat there will be

11 absolutely no effect from this plant? Certainly

12 not. But che effects should not be of a level that

13 should affect public health.

14 MR. ROGER MELLIERE: So basically,

you're saying yes, it's gonna' pollute the air?

16 MR. ROMAINE: Absolutely. We are in

17 the business of permitting sources of emission to

18 make sure they comply with the applicable

19 requirements to minimize the impact, and in areas

that have clean air, like Prairie Du Rocher currencly

21 does, to maintain clean quality air.

22 MR. ROGER MELLIERE: As it currently

2 3 does, we have clean air now. But when that facility

24 lS put up, we won't have the same clean iir.

MR. ROMAINE: There will be slightly


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, -,more 2ffiissions ~G ~G~S .a~ea, SnO"Li..LC s t a x ;

qualizy as clean air.

MR. STUDER: We're s~arting to diverge

on dialogue here, and dialogue is some~hins that

don't Dermit at hearings. So if you have comments,

continue. I don't mean to interruDt you, but

-t- I -i 1MR. ROGER MELLIERE: 1'11 just, ~ ~.l.

just scate out that I'm against it You know, I

- ~don't care how much money ..L l.. brings. Honestl);" ,

people, II this gets built, in r a v e , ten years down

the road, it's, o h , you know, it's starting to give

them problems, they're gonna' grandfather it in.

They're gonna' say that, o h , you know, it's too late,

you know, you can't change anything.

And then before you know .i t , there's a

lot of things start happening. You're gonna' see the

school close. People are gonna' wise up, and t.hey're

gonna' be like, you know what? I'm moving. My kid

a in 't go n n a' com e tot his s c h 0 0 1 . You gotta' t.hink

of that. That's all I have. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Looks like we

have, if I can pronounce it, Margo Asselmeier? _T-L..

looks like I can't read the writing. It looks

like it's M-A-R-E-G-O is the first name, and

Asselmeier.


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speak.

MR. STUDER: Did you want to make

comments?


MR. STUDER: No? Okay. Harry Glenn?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I pass.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. The next

pe~son would be Gene Clerc.

C-L-E-R-C.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Pass .

MR. STUDER: Okay. That was a pass'?

Okay. Mark Wilson?

MR. MARK WILSON: Hi. My name is Mark

Wilson, and I'm just a concerned citizen. And, you

know, basically I think everybody wants to promote

economic development. And I think the biggest

concern with everybody would be the environmental

impact and long-term effects of exposure to, you

know, the pollutants that are going into the aiy.

And I've got a couple of questions. I

mean, there was a period of about 14 years where

Mississippi Valley Lime had a 26 percent increase in

their emissions. And the last one tha~ I found was

in 2002, where I and for whatever reason, I can't find


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an~- da~a beyonci ~hat.

Bu':, y o u k n o w . at the time, in 2002,

t was 1.72 1000 pounds of l f i acid, :!-56,OOOn e r e s u u r c

pounds of hydrochloric acid, 1,511 pounds of lead

compounds, and 33 pounds of mercury compounds. Three

of those four are cancer-causing carcinogens, which,

to me, you know, again, based on the total

environmental releases and the pollution score cards,

Randolph County is one of che, is ranked in the

highest, the 20 percent highest counties for

hazardous air polluLants. And granted, I think

Illinois Power is probably the primary cause for that

in Randolph County, but that's me.

But the question .L have is, over a

period of time, you know, I can definitely see when a

company comes in and they begin working, and they're

really being closely monitored, they're gonna' be,

they're gonna' maintain their filters, change them

out, do whatever's necessary to try and do the clean

; ,... .•a ..L. _ And I've got a feeling that over a period of

time, maybe they get a little lax in the

maintenance.

And what I'm getting at is, again, in

the period of 1988 to 2002, there was an increase of

26 percent in emissions. I mean, that, I guess


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"C.f'laCIS }:: n QiAi n en -\r i. ron ITl-=: ri t; c~ 1 re.L'2ases.

When you see an increase in emissions like ~hat, does

the EPA flag something and say, Wait a minute, what's

. ?gOlng on. Do they come in and do an investigation or

some kind of research to find out why are your

emissions increasing, what can be done ~o reduce

those emissions?

MR. ROMAINE: I guess I first need to

back up. I'm not ~amiliar with the data that you're

referrins to.

MR. WILSON: It came from a pollution

score card, www.scorecard.org, f o r total

environmental releases and toxic chemical releases.

MR. ROMAINE: Well, then part of the

issue is, if it's the environmental score card, is

it's reporting not only emission releases but

wastewater releases, and it's potentially solid waste

from a facility.

MR. WILSON: Well, in this particular

one, the total environmental releases and again,

this was based on 2002 rankings. Again, there

could've been improvements between now and then, and

but, you know, at the time, they ranked 90 to 100

percent, which was like dirtiest/worst facilities in

the U.S. And as far as non-cancer risk score, they

SOUTHERN REPORTING ( 6.1 8) 99 7 - 84 5 5

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were 2~SO 90 ~o ~OO perceD~, which was dir~i2s~!wcrs~

facilities. As Z2r 2S C2Dcer risk

2-D t n e 70 to 80 percent, which, you know, a q a i n . on

the upper edge of the dirtiest to worst facilities.

So, you know, when I look at this, and

again, you know, I had some questions up front. And

a gentleman from the EPA was saying, yeah, this is

reliable data. So I have to ask myself, you know,

right now the plant's not there. You Dring ~he plant

In, we've got pollution that we didn't have Defore.

So yeah, there is an increase. And it does concern

me.

I'm just wondering, when it's up and

running and everything's going, does the EPA walk

away, or do you I know you guys continually, they

always have to get their emissions and send you that

data, and you guys compile it. But at some point in

+-'- l ' me , do you flag it when you see those emissions

start increasing, saying, Hey, what's going on? Are

we not filtering it properly? What's going on?

MR. ROMAINE: Well, certainly we check

the data. If there's something changing, we're

curious why. I really can't comment on that 26

percent increase, particularly as it lDvo ....1 ves,. I

think, things other than emissions. It could simply


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m~2n Lha~ they nad 26 pe~cent D~oduc~io~ incr~ase ~n

that 0~yiod of time and acing more bus~ness.

MR. WILSON: Well, this pa~ticularl

what ='m talking about did not count, it wasn't

counting any kind of waste that was transported off

site. It was emissions in the air, sulfuric acid,

hydrochloric acid, lead compounds, mercury comnounds.

MR. ROMAINE: Again, .L can't comment on

it without having seen it in advance.

MR. WILSON: 1'.11 right. I mean, my

main concern is that, again, it's the emissions. If

I knew one hundred percent that it was controlled and

monitored and if for some reason, filters, the

maintenance of your filtration system wasn't being

maintained properly, that somebody would raise a

flag, it would be investigated, and something would

be done about ..L " .... .

I mean, right now, I realize that a lot

of times people have a tendency to turn the other way

and sometimes, you know - well, I'm not gonna' go

into that.

MR. ROMAINE: Well, in terms of

monitoring, the kilns would be required to be

continuously monitored for their emissions of CO, for

carbon monoxide, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxide.


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These are the primary po~~u=ants e~itted by =he ki!n,

and that would provide solid data on a continuing

basis for the nerformance of che kilns.

In addition, monitorinq is required for

opacity of ehe exhaust, which is an indicaeor of the

performance of the baghouses for conerolling the

particulate matter emissions.

MR. WILSON: One thing I want to be

real, real clear about. Whe~ I talked about th~

total environmental releases and the non-cancer risk

scores and stuff and I said it was in the 90 to 100

percent dirtiese/worst facilities, that doesn't mean

the cleanliness of the plant itself. It's sericLly

talking about the emissions coming out. Okay? I

mean, T heard some comments talking about how they ~ I"

took tours to the plant and it was really clean and

everyehing looked great. ThaL's not what this is

talking about.

MR. ROMAINE: Well, you know, that

database, in fact, I think they're reporting on the

toxics release" inventory developed by the USEPA. The

purpose of that database, the reporting requirements,

was to focus aetention on releases of hazardous

materials in wastewater, in solid waste, in

emissions, so that sources would take measures to use


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othe~ tYD2S O~ ffia~erials or minimize ~he uses or

~hose materials co reduce releases co the /

env.i ronmen t . And the program has been effec~ive in

that reqard.

MR. WILSON: Okay. That's all I have.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Tiffany

Stellhorn?

MS. TIFFANY STELLHORN: Thank you. My

-name is Yiffany Stellhorn, S-7-E-L-L-H-O-R-N, ana 1.

ama concerned citizen. Going off of his comment,

it's to my understanding that a plant, if they pass

r~gulations so often, they get pollution points. Is

that correct? As some kind of incentive to keep your

plant clean, to be low on emissions, do they get

pollution points?

MR. ROMAINE: I'm not familiar with

pollution points.

MS. STELLHORN: No incentive for

keeping them clean or anything like that?

MR. ROMAINE: No. Plants are supposed

to comply with regulations, period.

MS. STELLHORN: Okay. All right. Then

these pollution points are then, I'm done. Thank

you.

MR. STUDER: 'I'hank you. Suzanne


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W:"lson?

MS. SUZANNE WILSON: Yo~ guys didn't

shuffle these cards at all, did you?

MR. STUDER: What's that?

MS. WILSON: You guys didn't shuffle

these cards at all, did you? All three of us are

related.

MR. STUDER: I generally don't shuffle

thew..

MS. WILSON: I'm just teasing. I want

to thank you for letting me speak a little bit here.

My name is Suzanne Wilson, W-I-L-S-O-N, and I am a

concerned citizen. I just have a few questions, not

very many. Well, now I have a concern. Earlier when

you were talking about the air monicor closest

location thank you to the lady that brought that

up -- I was not aware that you weren't even

considering putting one in Prairie Du Rocher. You're

thinking more closer to Belleville. And I'm kind of

like, why so far away?

MR. ROMAINE: Oh. The simple answer

for that is, we're monitoring the emissions as they

come out of the stack, which is a much more reliable

measure to assure that the facility's emissions are

within acceptable levels. The purpose of ambient


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mo~i~o~~ng lS ~c adaress ~ne combined imDac~ of

emissions fyom many sources, as we~l as motoY

And accordingly, we place monitors in

loca~lons where we have more concentrated

population.

MS. WILSON: Okay. Thank you. I've

also heard rumors in regards to jobs being

increased. How many jobs is going to create in

order to build the plant?

MR. STUDER: That's a little outside of

MS. WILSON: Oh, okay.

MR. STUDER: You know, we don't address

non-environmental issues.

MS. WILSON: Gotcha' . Okay. Then why

did you choose Prairie Du Rocher for the plant?

MR. ROMAINE: Again, we're the Illinois

EPA. We're regulating the plant. We are not

Mississippi Lime.

MS. WILSON: Okay. So those are

questions I need to direct to them.

MR. ROMAINE: Mississippi Lime is the

company. They went through their business process.

They obviously have a resource of limestone in the

area and believed it was appropriate to develop a


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:ime facili~l-, u~ilizins ~ha~ ~eSOUrCE.

decision chat ~he company made, che source made.

MS. WILSON: Gotcha' . Okav.

Basically, those are my main concerns. If ~hose line

of questions you can't answer, then I will finish

with my conclusion. But I do just want to sta~e that

I can see both sides or the road here. I can see

whe~e yes, i~'ll bring jobs to the area. I can see,

you Know, progress. Bu~ it jus~ concerns m~

And I appreciate you being able to give

us the information after this meeting with all the

answers and ~he opportunity to be able to e-mail you

more questions, 'cause I'm sure I will have more

after I hear all this. So thank you very much.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Ger.ald Mill?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I pass.

MR. STUDER: You pass?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: It's already been

asked.

MR. STUDER: Sheryl Prange, or is it

Prange?

MS. SHERYL PRANGE: My name is Sheryl

Prange, P-R-A-N-G-E.

MR. STUDER: I really did a number on

that one. I'm sorry.

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MS. PEp.NGS: ThaI-'s okay. And I'm

Drainaoe and Levee District. The project ~hat's

unoer discussion here is located within the

boundaries of that district, and the commissioners

have jus~ asked me to express their support of the

project that's belng proposed. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Daryl Clerc?

MR. DARYL CLERC: My name is Daryl

Clerc, C-L-E-R-C. I'm a concerneo citizen. And :L'd

like I.O preface this by stating I think itrs

great that a sound company like Mississippi Lime

would consider building a plant here. As far as I

know, they are, you know, they have a good

reputation.

However, ·my question concerns what

recourse Prairie Du Rocher has if the EPA limits are

found to be too high? Probably many people here

aren't aware of the scope and size of the plant. And

I'm quoting here from the EPA application. The plant

will be allowed to generate 1,533 tons per year of

nitrogen oxide, 1,095 tons per year of carbon

monoxide, 283 tons per year of S02' 52.3 tons per

year of PM ~. That's particulate matter having size2 .:J

below 2.5 microns. And 22 tons per year of volatile


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o~9anic mace~la~s.

Okav. So ~e2~~ly!· t. h o s e a r e just the

numbers, but that's pretty much eauivalenc to a

midsize power plant. Correct me if I'm wrong, but

looked up like some power plants in Kentucky, and

they have similar emissions. So it's like a

medium-size power plant.

So 1- -f , let's supposec:.his plant's up

and running. What do we do ; .= the air starts getting~.L

bad here? I mean, you know, what recourse does a

town have? Well, you know, we can monitor at the

stack, but thac doesn't account for the circulation

f 'in the air and perhaps _ormlng pockets along the

bluffs. I know it's difficult to model air flow

around bluffs.

I think there should be more monitoring

stations, not St. Gen or Belleville, but there should

be some here to account for the bluffs, 'cause th~y

don't have bluffs in Belleville, whereas we do here.

So we need a station in this town. And ideally,

periodic testing by an independent testing facility.

I think all of that should be built into the permit,

so that, you know, the process is in writing for, you

know, the recourse that the citizens In the town have

to address, you know, the air quality.


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An o a r s o . ,,.. should a n c Lu o e the

increased diesel truck craffic to and from che tow~.

Wo',,-o looking at a b o u t; 80 to 100. trucks a day', You

know, that should be included in the emissions

analysis. Okay. That's all I have. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Michael, is it

Sabo or Sabo?

MR. MICHAEL SABO: Good ever-ing.

name is Michael Sabo, S-A-B as in boy O. I'm from

P'r a i x I e Du Rocher, G Road. And, uh, so I'm a

resident and a concerned citizen. Umm, I'd like to

thank you for bringing up the issue of the wastewater

release, because the previous understanding, I

understand this is the air division, but this hearing

off ice r . I' d a p pre cia t e i t I don't expect you to

know this but when you get back up to Springfield,

to find out if an N~DES water permit has been issued

for this, and if there hasn't, when the public

hearing is gonna' be, that would be nice, so again,

we can have people turn out for that.

MR. STUDER: Let me explain how the

NPDES system works. And that is basically when that

application is received by our agency, we'll review

-.I:it and make a preliminary determination on that, 1..L

it is such that we would, you know, consider issuing


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c permit, we wou~d Dublic notice that.

then havE the opportunity then to comment on the

draft Dermit and/or request a public hearing at ~hat

time.

MR. SABO: Well, if there is one, I'd

like to request a hearing.

MR. STUDER: That has to be done during

the

fvlR . SF_BO: I understand

MR. STUDER: specific notice

MR. SABO: I understand

MR. STUDER: - - pursuant to federal

regulations.

MR. SABO: Yeah. I'll keep an eye out

on my public notices. So my understanding is, the

Best Available Control Technology is determined by

the fuel source that is ultimately used in the plant;

is that correct? That's a strong determinant on what

we call BACT?

MR. ROMAINE: Umm, I guess that's a

pretty general statement. I'm not sure where you're

going with it.

MR. SABO: Okay. Well, if there wasn't

sulfur in the fuel source t you wouldn't be concerned

about sulfur dioxide emission?


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shouldn't sav that.

limestone, but the more significant concern is the

sulfur in t h e fuel, yes.

MR. SABO: So for when you were

considering the natural gas solueioD, I'm assuming

you looked at. varlOUS design options on how rase to

heat the fuel so that you could use low NO burners x

and such with che fuel source. ~ guess my question

a s , do they p r e s e n t; a plan to you, and then you

comment on it as part of this review process? Or is

.i t; more like a give and take, they say we wane eo

build one, and then you like throw out some fuel

sources, and then they say, okay, well, we can work

around this?

MR. ROMAINE: Under this permitting

process for a major project, they put forward the

project they're proposing. As part of their

application, they have to include an analysis of the

various alternatives that might be used as Best

Available Control Technology to minimize emissions.

MR. SABO: Uh-huh.

MR. ROMAINE: So as part of the

l' "app-,-lcat.lon, for example, Mississippi Lime evaluated

what would be the consequences, for example, of using


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natu~al gas as a :uel

MR. SABO: So, you know, obviously, you

know, a lot of times power plants use a combinaLion

of cyclon separators, baghouses, and electrostatic

precipitators. And I'm just curious why there was no

requirement to use electrostatic precipitators as a

final cleansing step on this.

MR. ROMAINE: Generally in

circumstances where baghouses are practicable

devices, they're considered more reliable and more

effective than a baghouse. That's not to say that

electrostatic precipiLaLors can't be very effective.

But they pose certain challenges that aren't, they're

not as straightforward to operate, from my

perspective, as simply putting in a baghouse which

filters the dust out of the exhaust.

MR.SABO: I'm curious I since even

though I'm Prairie Du Rocher mailing address, I live

up on the bluff I as opposed to down here in the

ditch. And how often did your organization do any

modeling on the frequency of temperature inversions

in the Mississippi Valley? And if so, how does the

temperature inversion affect the short-term exposure

to the people in the area?

MR. ROMAINE: Well, I can't


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specifica:ly sDEak co the inversion issue. The

madeline chat was conducced is based on a five-vea~

pe~iod of meteorology. Soie looks through five

y e a r s . hour by hour datal and evaluates what is the

worst or the highest impacts under that set of

meceorology. So and it's a very thorough analysis

that would certainly you know, I would expect wouldI

be sufficient to address the Da~tic~lar circumstances

here l given thE data. But beyond that I I d have toI

go back co our modelers to see how they actually

addressed the circumstances.

MR. SABO: Well, the reason I asked

this is because the National Weather Service data

climatology data for Prairie Du Rocher is actually

Spart a ]\._i rport . Sparta's a little bit different

topography speaking, wide open, f La t . like much of

Illinois l as opposed to here where we basically live

in a bucket.

MR: ROMAINE: Uh-huh.

MR. SABO: So correct me if I'm wrong l

but the air pollution r~gulations for NO and PM and x

carbon dioxide, there's also a section in there for

radionuclide emissions; correct?

MR. ROMAINE: That's correct.

MR. SF.BO: Did you take into I guess


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11 m wonderlng wnen you were comparing wne~he~ O~ ~ot

you're reachina the ~hreshold on that, obviously, you

Tknow, DC~ coke and coal aye sources lD the norm.

was wondering what samples you used for thOSE, the

outputs from those fuels.

MR. ROMAINE: At this point, the

standards for radionuclides do not apply to

commercial fuels. The USEPA has not found it

necessary ~o develop standards for use of commercial

fuels.

MR. SABO: Okay. So basically, any

radon emitted from this site is treated differently

from the same quantity that would be emitted from a

nuclear power plant then, because it's a different

set of regulations; is that correct?

MR. ROMAINE: Yes. That's the simple

answer.

MR. SABO: That's great.

MR. ROMAINE: Obviously, radioactive

power plants have radioactivity in substantial

quantities and are appropriate for regulation to

assure that radioactivity is not released to the

environment. That risk or those circumstances are

not present with a conventional power plant or

conventional use of

SOUTHERN REPORTING (618) 997-8~55

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MR. SABO: So th~ quancities releasee

bv this :ac~litv will not be maintained on an

inventory or anything like that?

MR. ROMAINE: I don'~ think so, no.

MR. SABO: Well, I think that answered

my quest-ions. Thank you so much.

MR. STUDER: Very good. Thank you.

Steve, is Castleberry?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: He just stepped out.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: He went to the

restroom.

!'v1R. STUDER: Okay. I'll put him one

card back, and we'll come back to him. It looks like

Chris, is it Melton?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I think that's

Martin.

MR. STUDER: Okay. I apologize for

that. I couldn't quite read it.

MR. CHRIS MARTIN: No. It's actually

my printing. Thank you. My name is Chris Martin,

M-A-R-T-I-N. I'm the coordinator for Randolph County

Economic Development under the auspices of the

Randolph County Progress Committee. I just wanted to

say this evening that we're all about jobs. And we

know that this will create long-term 30 plus or minus


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Jobs, .i n r n e s h o r c t.e r rr, 100 JODS, and t h a t. s wn a tv v

we're about lS c:r-eating jobs.

We're also about creating wealth in the

community, and tha~ truly only happens when you have

a manufacturing or a mining process, and this is a

mining process. And we know that this money will

l:.urn over in this community three to five times

before it leaves the community. And that will

greatly benefit Prairie Du Rocher and Randolph

County. And I appreciate your allowing me to speak

"this evenlng. Thank you.

rvIR. STUDER: Thank you. Did Mr.

Castleberry come back?


AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here he comes.

MR. STEVE CASTLEBERRY: My name is

Steve Castleberry, C-A-S-T-L-E~B-E-R-R-Y. I'm the

environmental compliance manager for Mississippi Lime

Company. I've worked for industry for over 31 years

and have been doing environmental work for 25 years.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: We can't hear him.

MR. CASTLEBERRY: Sorry. I have

assisted in the preparation and review of this permit

application and believe the draft Dermit as presented

is protective, appropriate, stringent, and


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econamical:y feasible. assure you, MississiDDi

Lime will comnlv with all Dermit ~ondicions and

monito~ing requiremen~s.

Now I want to change hats. My name :..s

Steve Castleberry. I'm a resident 0: Glen Carbon,

Illinois. I've lived in the state for over 17

years. My great grandparents homesteaded in

Springfi'eld, Illinois, and I've reason to believe J:

have relatives buried here in Prairie Du Rocher.

My children were educated in Illinois,

and they've Slnce moved on In search of employment

elsewhere. And I want to just conclude, as a private

citizen, saying this project will bring jobs to this

community and provide sustained benefits over the

life of the project. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you, Mr.

Castleberry. Okay. That concludes the first round

of those that had registered to speak. Is there

someone that registered to speak or, for that matter,

didn't register to speak and has not spoken that

would like to speak this evening?

MR. GEORGE CHRISTIANSEN: George

Christiansen, C-H-R-I-S-T-I-A-N-S-E-N. Whether for

or against this project, as a concerned citizen and

resident, what .i rrro a c t. does our questions, comments,


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and concerns nave upon ~ne I~linois EPA lD your

decision giving ~his Dermit or not giving this

De:r-mit? That's it.

MR. ROMAINE: Want me to cake that?

MR. STUDER: Yes.

MR. ROMAINE: What we're here for

tonight is obviously we're addressing concerns simply

pro and con, jobs, whatever. What we're really

concerned about is technical issues :r-aised about the

proposed p:r-ojecc and whether it will comply with the

applicable regulations, whether we've done our job

properly in terms of evaluating the project ahd

assuring compliance with applicable emission

standards and requi:r-ements.

The comments that a:r-e made tonight

about economic development really don't sway us very

much. We're much more interested and I heard

comments with regard to more monito:r-ing stations,

independent periodic testing, other substantive

issues. That is what we're really listening to hea:r-,

'cause those are the things that can affect our

decision or influence the content of a permit if we

decide the permit is warranted, but there are

additional features that should be included in that

maybe.


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ME. STUDER: Than}: YOl::o

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a~,rone els~ tha~ has no~ snoken this evening tha~

would ~ike to do so?

MS. JUDY POUR: Hi. My name is Judy

Pour, P- O-U-R. My question is, what about the

families that are only about 3 to 400 yards from

there? How will it affect them?

MR. ROMAINE: The analyses that are

done with the monitoring, in fact, address o f f s i t ev

impact, so we do not do monitoring to address on-site

impacts, which are the responsibility of OSHA. Bu[.

our analysis starts at Lhe fenceline or in a location

where a member of the public would be living or, you

know, present, hunting, walking, or whatever.

MS. POUR: So there was no analysis

done for people that are that close?

MR. ROMAINE: Yes, that's what I'm

saying, because they would be beyond the fenceline.

Those are exactly the people that we've addressed.

MS. POUR: Okay.

MR. STUDER: Sir, if you'd come forward

and state your name and spell your last name,

Dlease.

MR. RONNY INMAN: I didn't have a card,

and I've listened to some of these people's


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con'2"2rns. My name is Ronny Inman, ::: -N-M-A-N. I I "\ie

Genevieve :or ~~ Years. when::: c arn e -'::'0

::: run a business/ manage a business, a rock . I

quarry. also am presldenc of the Chamber of

Commerce and president of the New Bourbon Port

Authori ty / which owns the ferry.

When I was given the opportunity to

come to Be. Genevieve 31 years ago/ I had kids in

grade school and high school for people concerned

about their health -- and was given the opportunity

... _ 1.:. _ ........ '-u .L.LVC a 50-mile radius . Knowing chat

Mississippi Lime was already there/ looking at the

schools and looking at Mississippi Lime, lbrought

four children from grade school into high school.

Three 6f ~y children still live there.

My oldest son, both my sons worked at the quarry.

One still does. Both have college degrees. They've

raised their children. I've got grandchildren from

grade school up into high school and college that was

all raised inSt. Genevieve.

I'll be 68 years old in less than ten

days. Still healthy. 1 live on the bluff within a

quarter of a mile where Mississippi Lime loads their

limestone / south of that. And I have not experienced

any health problems'. I can understand their


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concerns, but they've been a competen~ company.

think they'd be oleased to have them as a neighbor.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. One more ::'ime,

is there anyone else that has not spoken that would

sir?

MR. GERALD MELLIERE: My name is Gerald

Melliere, M-E-L-L-I-E-R~E. What Mississippi Lime has

in Missouri, that's not what they're gonna' put here;

right? What you're developing here is different than

wha~ chey gOL over there. All they got is a quarry

over there; right? They're not building that's

nOL what you're proposing to build here. That's

different; right?

MR. ROMAINE: I'm not familiar with the

operations across the river. Does Mississippi Lime

wish to comment?

MR. GERALDMELLIERE: They don't have

the kilns over there, do they, like they're gonna'

build here?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Yes.

MR. GERALD MELLIERE: They've got these

big vats?

AUDIENCE MEMBER: I just saw them last

Saturday.

MR. GERALD MELLIERE: Then why do they


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need one here! i= there 1s one ~ha~ close?

AUD2:ENCE MEMBER: Yot:. need "Co as}:

someone that's here, let him explain that.

MR. STUDER: Okay. It's going to be

really difficult for the court reporter to take down

'~what's said l.L we start going in this manner. So if

someone

MR. GERALD MELLIERE: Well, I just want

to make this is the same thing that they got,

that , s gonna , be built here, that. S"C Genevieve' s

got, is tha"C what they're gonna' build here?

MR. STUDER: And I think we 've said

t.hat we're not familiar with what they've got on that

side, so we can't answer that question.

MR. KEITH ESPELIEN: I can interrupt

and clarify that

MR. STUDER: If you'd come forward.

MR. ESPELIEN: - off the record or on

the record. Keith Espelien, E-S-P-E-L-I-E-N. Can

you rephrase the question for me one more time? It

sounded like, is the plant that we're building or

would like to build here the same as we've got in St.

Genevieve? The plant in St. Genevieve is a very

large operation with a lot greater capacity than what

would be here in Prairie Du Rocher.


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We nave an underground mine lD St.

Genevieve. We would have a~ underground mine here l~

Prairie Du Rocher. We have many, many kilns on the

sur:ace in St. Genevieve. Here the Dermit

application is for two kilns and a hydrating system.

So it's a much smaller operation than what we have in

St. Genevieve.

There were a couD~e of questions aboV~

why here, and someone addressed that with a comment

about this was where the reserve is. These type of

limestone reserves are not prevalent throughout the

entire United States. So you go where the stone is.

Some companies have to ship the stone in from long

distances away, and that makes having a viable

operation very difficult.

Other l.ime businesses, like many

businesses that we're in today, it's a challenge.

You work hard to make money, whether you're out in

the plant, or in the mine, or in the office. And so

you look for the areas where you can develop an

operation, support a business, and grow along with

the community. That's why we're here asking for this

in Prairie Du Rocher. This is where the stone is.

The growth that we're looking to supply

is north and east of here primarily. Being on this


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sidsof the rlver Las ~ogisc2ca1 advantages. Believe

it 0:- no~: we can work really hard day long, 0.12.

night long, anc it'll cost more to shin the nroduct

than we sell it for.

So getting a little bit of a logistical

advantage on truck freight, rail freight, barge

freight, helps us make a go of it in the world. So

that's why we're interested in building some~hing in

this area. This is where the s~ons is. Thank you.

ME. STUDER: Thank you. Is there

anyone else that has not spoken this evening that

wants to speak? Okay. With that, we have one person

that I believe ran out of time. So Kathy Andria, if

you'd like to come forward.

MS. KATHY ANDRIA: I wanted to first of

all address the people, the concerned citizens who

expressed concern about health. You do have reason

to worry about the health. This plant, as one person

suggested, would emit 283 tons of sulfur dioxide,

1,500 tons of nitrogen oxide, 1,000 tons of carbon

monoxide, 106 tons of fine particulates. There are

carcinogens. There are all kinds of things.

Google these chemicals and find out

what the health impacts are. Go to the 1 ibrary, and

you'll find out. Fine particulates cause heart and


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~ung disease anc D~ema~u~e dea~h. 'They had did c..

Diamond G Baldwin was e m i r t. a n q and

how many deaths were caused. Those are a lot of

sta~istics that you need to Know, and you should be

concerned about your children.

Tim curious. I have a lot of quick

Questions. One of the questions, you said that you

weren't going ~o use natural gas because the cost was

excessive:.. Well, I wondered when that had been

e val u at, ed, a t what poi nt, be c au sena t u r a 1 gas i s

pretty darn cheap right now. In fact, a coal plant

i ..in Ohio jus~ announced today that -'-- was closing,

because natural gas was so cheap. So when was that

evaluation done? What was the price of natural gas?

MR. ROMAINE: The evaluation was, our

evaluation was completed shortly before we released

the draft permit ror review. The assumption was that

natural gas would only cost $3 more per million BTU

than coal.

MS. ANDRIA: And I also wanted to

address Mr. Romaine's statement that you didn't have

to worry, as one citizen was worried about the

assurances that the air be clean, andM~. Romaine

said, well, they're in the business of giving

permits, so that, and the permits will comply with


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and a:.r

I come from Granite City. IE?JI.'s given

a whole bunch of Dermits UD there. 'The air is not

clean. We have really serious Droblems. We have an

abundance of children with asthma from the fine

particulates. From the Granite City Steel, we have

all kinds of people who have cancer. We have lots

and lots of cancer, heart disease. And they've even

done a study that just was released about diabetes

and fine Darticulates.

So go to the library, Google these

things, go to the American Lung Association site.

Find out about these things. You have a right to be

concerned. But don't rely on their assurances that

your air is gonna' be clean. It will never be the

same once a plant like this starts running.

And you have such a lovely town here,

and it's a tourist attraction, and people come here

to nature preserves, come here to the fort, come here

for all kinds of things. So be active and get

involved. And if anybody wants to talk to me after

the meeting, I'd be happy to. Because USEPA has

ann6unced and the Supreme Court decision said that

the greenhouse gases are a pollutant, why are you

continuing to refuse to do a greenhouse gas BACT?


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~1j:P. ROMA I NE : Green~8use gases a~e n~~

Vo~ 0 regulated pollutant.

MS. ANDRIA: What If they are in ~wo

months? Then what?

MR. ROMAINE: Then in two months, we

would have to do a BACT analysis.

MS. ANDRIA: But this would be

grandfathered In.

MR. ROMAINE: The only differen2e would

be that there would be a formal analysis for

greenhouse gases. This plant is being developed to

use pre-heaters, which are the technology that

maintains, you know, that reduces fuel consumption,

which is the technique that would be used to minimize

emissions of greenhouse gases from a lime plant.

MS. ANDRIA: I looked at this permit,

and I didn't go through the whole permit, but I

looked at it, and I compared it to the Vulcan permit,

which is also a lime processing plant, and I'm a

little confused about it. The PM emissions for this

plant are twice as much as Vulcan's, whil~ other of

the lime emissions are lower. Can you explain why?

MR. ROMAINE: That's an incorrect

understanding. The difference between this permit

and the Vulcan permit is this permit it's a plan


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is that the Best Available Concrol Technology

limics for th~ Vulcan Dlant are expressed per con of

limestone input into the lime kiln, whereas the BACT

limits for t~is plant are proposed to be sec in terms

of tons of lime outDut from the kilns. So ie's a

difference between e~ission units based on output

versus emission limits based on inpue.

In fact, the lime outDut from a kiln is

about half the limestone input. So if you compare

them appropriately, you'll see that this plane has

emission limits that are similar or slightly better

than the limits that are proposed for Vulcan, which,

again, is a different location, different size,

producing a different quality of limestone.

·MS. ANDRIA: Particulate your chart

on annual emissions has three different problems for

particulates. One tha t just says PM, another says

and a third says PM2'~' Could you explain the .;:)

differences, and is there a total of 250 something

tons?

MR. ROMAINE: This is referring to page

3 of the project summary that we prepared. Those are

separate listings for each form of particulate

matter. The potential emission, that is the amount


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looking at. all

pa~ticulates ~eg~lated would be 107 ~ons. Th a t; w c u l d

'1'"be the same number for uarticulate matter 10. _De

particulate matter 2.5, which is of particular

concern and has been mentioned, would only be

potential emissions or particulate matter 2.5 would

only be 53.2 tons. Those numbers are not added.

MS ..~NDRIA: p~~ _ is the kind of L. • ::J

pollutant, that particulate that bypasses, it goes

deep into the lungs and can even go into the

bloodstream and the heart. So I just wanted to

know. That's 52 tons per year. Did you model

compliance ~ith one-hour NO and S02 according to EPA x

guidance?

MR. ROMAINE: Yes.

MS. ANDRIA: Did you set one-hour

limits, rather than average over more than an hour?

MR. ROMAINE: Do you have that on the

top, Minesh? The limit that would be proposed as .set

for nitrogen oxides is a three-hour average.

MS. ANDRIA: We elicit comments on

that. We would request that it be on a one-hour.

The permit assumes that BACT is equal to a case by

case BACT. Are there end units subject to a case by

case BACT, and if so, which ones?


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MR. ROMAINE: ~ didn'~ follow ~ne

0ues-c.2.0n.

MS. ANDRIJI_: A~e the~e any units

subject to a case by case BACT?

MR. ROMAINE: Yes.

MS. ANDRIA: Which ones?

MR. ROMAINE: The ones that are not

subject to emission standards Dursuant to USEPA's

adopted ~egulations for hazardous air pollu~ants. So

it includes things, lime handling, for example, that

would be an example.

MS. ANDRIA: Is there a scrubbe~ for

MR. ROMAINE: There is not an add-on

scrubber for S02' The kiln would be processing high

calcium limestone. High calcium limestone provides

very good levels of inherent dry scrubbing from the

limestone dust and the lime dust that's formed in the

kiln that's then caught in the baghouse.

MS .. ANDRIA: The gentleman who referred

to the meteorology about the modeling that you've

done and this being a valley, that's a very important

thing that you make sure that you've done the right

modeling, because the whole thing, the Ame r a c a n

Bottom is in a valley, and we do have temperature


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::'nve~sions. And I know the aIr better up nor~h from

here, and ,r just sits on cop o~ people. f._nd so you

h a v e , and the a i r isn' t, moving, so you r re b r e a t h i n q

re211y heavily for several days, especi211y in the

summer. Are there any proposed regulations that have

not yet gone into effect, but that you know are

coming, that would impacL this permit?

MR. ROMP_INE: Not th2t I'm 2ware of,

no.

MS. ANDRIA: Isn't there 2 new

regulation?

MR. ROMAINE: You've already mentioned

greenhouse gases, but other than that, no.

MS. AND:RIA: I know that there are new

regs coming for cement kilns, but that's not

MR. ROMAINE: Lime kilns are not cement

kilns.

MS. ANDRIA: Did the agency check all

of the modeling that the company did.? Did your

modeling staff check, or did you accept their word

ror the modeling that was submitted?

MR. ROMAINE: I don't have the answer

for that.

MS. ANDRIA: I would request that

answer.

SOUTHERN RE~ORTING

(618) 997-8455

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M~. ROMAIND: Okay.

MS. ANDRIA: And 1: your modelinq unit

3 hasn't verified the accuracy of the modeling, which ~

4 mean, modeling to me is all smoke and mirrors

anyway. I don't believe it, and you all get ~he

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results because you put in what you want to get out

of But we would request that any modeling tnat

they've handed in, that it be verified by the

agency.

You didn'~know how much mercury, but

do you know how much lead will be emit~ed?

MR. ROMAINE: Do we have a number for

lead?

MR. PATEL: Yeah. On a yearly basis,

it's 0.0008.

MS. ANDRIA: Tons; right? 0.008, three

zeros?

MR. PATEL: Four zeros.

MS. ANDRIA: No. Zero point, and then

four zeros or just three?

MR. PATEL: Four zeros then 8.

MS. ANDRIA: How much is that in tons?

Can you tell me?

MR. PATEL: That is in tons.

MS. ANDRIA: No. I mean in pounds.


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! -r 'm ~ T "rn n o r, a maL:.nematician.

~1E. STUDER: We dor't have a calculator

3 here. We'll respond LO that.

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MS. ANDRI]>.: Well, he's an englneer.

MR. ROMAINE: It's less than a pound.

MS. ANDRIA: Is it really? Okay. I ' m

very surprised at that.

MR. Pl'_TEL: ~.6.

MR. ROMA I NE : 1 . 6 .

MR. STUDER: He say's 1.6. He did it

longhand.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay. Thank you. And the

lime kiln dust is used for the control of S02; is

that what you said?

MR. ROMAINE: Yes.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay. Is there an

alternative control for that?

MR. ROMAINE: For S02? No ..

MS. ANDRIA: How many tons is there a

limit per day? I was a little confused about that.

Is it 2,400?

MR. PATEL: For?

MS. ANDRIA: Tons per day of lime,

limestone.

MR. ROMAINE: Yes, t he production limit


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. . ,would be 2 , ~ 00 ~ons De~ mODc:.h..Ly average.

MS. ANDRIA: And I know that My Sabo

was talking to Mr. Studer. thought that they had

gotten the NPDES.

MR. STUDER: I'm not aware that it has

been gotten. I don't honestly know if there is an

application in-house.

MS. ANDRIA: Maybe they could answer.

They have an engineer here.

MR. STUDER: If they want LO answer,

they can answer on the NPDES. If they don't want to

answer, I can't compel them to answer.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: We've received our

permit already.

MR. STUDER: Okay. They've got their

NPDES permit, you are correct.

MS. ANDRIA: Yeah. I agree with Me:-.

Sabol it's a shame that people didn't know about it,

'cause I'm sure people would be very interested in

commenting on that. And I don't know -- I know that

NPDES permits are I don't know where they, you

find out about them. I go on the EPA website to find

out.

MR. STUDER: All of them are posted on

the web page when they are on public notice.


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MS. 1'.NDElp_: Bu~ this was before oeoo1e . -

2 even knew there was gonn~' be a plant, an ai~ permit,

3 so they wouldn'c have known.

ME. STUDEE: We have to take action on

an applicacion when we get it. We can't necessarily

6 time it based on some outside criteria, so

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7 I would encourage the

8 agency to try to expand the use of some way of

9 notifying the public I the i n t e ::::- est e d public I t; he

affected Dublicc

11 MR. STUDER: Sure. I f you have

I suggescions, we'd be glad to see those, if you have

suggestions, Kathy.

MS. ANDRIA: Okay. When will the

transcript be posted on the website?

MR. STUDER: We are anticipating

receiving the transcript in about two weeks, so I

would say two to two and a half weeks is what our

target is. It may be slightly later than that

depending on, you know, because it falls over the

holidays, but that's what we're targeting for.

MS. ANDRIA: Could you tell the people

how to

MR. STUDER: I will do that before we

close tonight.


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MS. ANDF. ~_z:o. : - go to the websi t e . so

that they can ~ead

MR. STUDER: Yes. I will eXDlain where

the transcript will be located.

MS. ANDRIA: Terrific. And I agree

with the gentleman who had concerns about what

recourse, if the air is bad. Because once they're

up, they're up, and it takes an act of God or

something to close them. So, you know, taKe on

notice and find out what you can and submit your

comments. Thank you very much. I appreciate it.

IviR. STUDER: Thank you, Ms. Andria.

Kathy brought up a question -

AUDIENCE MEMBER: Can I make one more

statement later before it's over?

MR. STUDER: Yes. You have to come

forward, too.

MR. ROGER MELLIERE: Roger Melliere.

One statement I want to make again before you guys

leave, before you guys make your decision. In this

town, basically in this bottoms, we have very heavy

air a lot of times. When people burn leaves in this

town, you'll see it get about bluff level, and it'll

hang all the time. Before you make your decision,

please come around that time when somebody's burning


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leaves and you1ll 'see now the al~ Yeall~l ~rave~s In

~"""O-'G.. G... t h i n k we 1 ~l have same nc::-oblem

-i t- , "1 l _ ..J...with c:his nlant.. We'll have the alr, and ..... ....... hang,

and it'll drop. This alr In these bottoms is

different than above the bluff.

And also, before you make your

decision, make it upon hopefully if you were to ~lve

next to it, would you really want to live next to

lr.? You know, don't, please don't let big money talk

you into it, you know. Please make your decision on

if you wanted to be next to it the rest of your

life. Thank you.

MR. STUDER: Thank you. Before I make

the announcement about where you can find the

transcript, I'll do that right now, just so that

everyone has that. If you go to the Illinois EPA web

page, and r.haL: is www.epa.state.il.us. And that is

the generic web page for Illinois EPA.

On the front page of the web page, as

you scroll down the front page, you'll come to a

place that says "Public Notice." And if you click on

"Public Notice," it'll take you to our general

public notices. The transcript will appear on the

second page when you click on "Public Notice," when

it is put on the web page.


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I -. It ...!.....!.. be a. ciate, anc it '..L~ say "C.ne

Mississippi ~ime Company transcriDt.

click on that, it will take you to the transcriDt

itself.

I also point out that in the same

manner, when we complete and take final action on

this, our responsiveness summary will also be posted

on that web page. Those of you that have registered

this evening will receive notification, and we will

let you know of the availability of the

responsiveness summary and what our final decision in

chis matter is.

I remind everyone that the record is

open for an additional 30 days, and we welcome

written comments. Even if you have spoken this

evening and you would like to file comments in

writing, you are certainly free to do that, and we

will consider those comments before we take final

action in this matter. Is there anyone this evening

that would like to speak?

MS. ANDRIA: I have a question.

MR. STUDER: Yes, Kathy.

MS. ANDRIl>.: Since they're going to be

using coal, where would the coal ash go? Is that

going to be stored on site?


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ME.. ROrIJAINE: Do v o u r e c a L'; , M:'cnesh?

MR. PATEL: The permit does not allow

coal to be stored at, coal ash to be stored at the

plant, so I'm thinking it would be going out.

MS. ANDRL7.l,.: So they will have to, if

EPA, which is currently accepting comments until

Friday, about the coal ash will 'be, could be a

hazardous waste, then they will have to, whether they

do i~ under C or D, they have to put it somewhere

, ")else? Is that what you're saYlng. It's not gonna'

be on site?

MR. ROMAINE: The permit that we're

proposing to issue does not address on-site disposal

of ash, so it would have to be appropriately handled

by sending it LO an appropriate off-site disposal

facility.

MS. ANDRIA:' Okay. Thank YO~'

MR. STUDER: Thank you.

MS. JUDY POUR: I have one more

question. Are you aware that the piece of property

that I was saying 3 or 400 yards, that Mississippi

Lime will own everything around it, the 15 acres?

Those people will be affected one way or another.

And how tall will the towers be?

MR. ROMAINE: How high are the stacks?


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MS. PODF-.:

MR. ROMAINE: I don't have that a~ my

it'll obviously tall. That's of the

app~oach to addres~ins

MS. POUR: Well, it's gonna' determine,

like you said, when you have, depending on how tall

they are, and when you have the bluffs. And again,

lived across from this all my life. I played over

there. f'1y brother did, as well So we know, you

know, what it , s 1 ike, you know, 300 400 yards from

there But agaln, it , s going to affect, 'cause if

it's not too tall, it's going to hover. So it will

affect people, and, you know -

MR. ROMAINE: And I guess I'm not sure

I answered your previous question. What I was trying

to say is that we look for everybody off the

property. We start at the property line and work our

way further away from the plant. You know, if we see

the highest impacts a foot, you know, right off the

property line, that's where they have to show

comDliance with the air quality standards. If it

happens to be further 'distance away, that's where

they have to show compliance with the air quality

standards.

The only place that we're not looking


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=o~ ~he aualiey of ~he air with this Dlant would be

on the actual fenceline where the public couldn't

go. But where the public could go is where we're

obligated to protect air quality.

MS. POUR: It's still stuck in the

middle, so

MR. STUDER: I thank you for your

attendance this evening, and I again remind everyone

that the record is open for an additional 30 days to

accept writcen comments. Thank you. This hearing is

adjourned.


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I

STATE OF ILLINOIS i I

COUNTY OF JACKSON

I, Sharon Valerius I a Freelance Court

Reporter for the State of Illinois, do hereby certify

that I reported in machine shorthand the EPA Public

He a r i n 9 he 1 don Nove mb e r 1 8 I 2 0 1 0 , fro ITI 7: 0 0 p . m .

till 8:50 p.m., at the Prairie Du Rocher Elementary

School Gymnasium, 714 ~hddle Street, Prairie Du

Rocher, Illinois; that I thereafter caused ~he

foregoing to be transcribed into computer-aided

transcription, which I hereby certify to be a true

and accurate transcript of the same.

Dated this 25th day of November, 2010.

FREELANCE COURT REPORTER

OFACIAI.. SEAL SHARON VALERIUS .

NoIaryPublIc• St8lB ofIllinois MyComm*'lon expires Aug 06,2014


[ I

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Index Page 4

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Index Page 6

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Index Page 8

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Index Page 10

---------

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took [1) 38:] 6

top [3] 25:17 65:19 67:2

topography [1] 49:16

total [61 34:7 35: I 35:12 35:20 38:10 64:20

tour [3] ]5:24 18:3 18:8

tourist [1] 62:18

tours [1] 38:]6

toward [2] 15:13 20:6

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town [11] . 14:24 19:10 29:1 30:20 44:11 44:20 44:24 45:2 62:17 72:2] 72:23

township [4]

22:17 22:19

toxic [1] 35:13

toxics [1]

traffic [1]

training [l]

transcribed [1]

transcript [S} 71 :]7 72:4 73:23 74:2 78:15

transcription [1]

78:14

transported [11

travels [1)

treat [1] 28: 1]

treated [1]

treatment [1]

truck [2] 45:2

trucks [1]

true [1] 78:14

truly [2] ] 7:21

Trustees [1]

try [2J 34:19

trying [1]

turn [5] 8:25 37:19 45:20

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type [1] 59:10

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13:1

41:3

68:3

64:8

59:14

Index Page 11

exhibit 1 - united states environmental protection agency by appeal number...the public hearing...

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