episode 232: lessons learned from finland€¦ · following along on instagram and haven't...

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Episode232:LessonsLearnedFromFinland


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Child:WelcometomyMommy’spodcast.

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ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubythebestCBDI’veevertriedandtheoneIfeelisthebestoutthere.ItiscalledOjaiEnergeticsandhere’swhyit’sawesome…First,itsover20xmoreabsorbablethatmostCBD,whichmakesitanincrediblevalue.Over99%ofOjaiCBDgetswhereitneedstogoinyourbodybecauseoftheirpatentedcolloidaltechnology(itisnotliposomal)like90%oftheCBDonthemarket.Infact90%oftheCBDintheseoilsdon’tevenmakeitpastthegutandliverandintotheblood.Thisiscalled,“TheFirstPassEffect”.Then90%oftheCBDthatdoesmakeit,isn’tintherightformforthecellsthatneedit.Ojaisolvesthisproblemwiththeircolloidalsystem.IwasskepticalandthefirsttimeItriedit,Ifeltanoticeableeffectinabout15secondswhichissomuchfasterthanthe20-30minuteswithotherbrandsI’veused!SonowwheneverIfeelanystressoranxietyorhaveproblemssleeping,IusetheirCBDoil.TheirCBDisderivedfromcompletelyorganicingredientsandbatchtestedby3rdPartyVendors,whichisimportant,forHeavyMetals,VOC’S,Pesticides,Herbicides,Microbes,andforthecontentofTerpenes&Cannabinoids.Becausethisversionabsorbsfaster,youalsocanknowifyou’regettingtherightdoseastoomuchisnotoptimal.Here’show:BecauseOjaiworkssorapidly,itcausesyourbody’scannabinoidreceptorsinthetonguetomodulate.ThetastewillbebitterwhenyourbodyneedsmoreCBD,butwillchangetosweetwhenyouhavehadenough.Sototestthis,justtakea¼dropper,wait30seconds,thenfeelifit’sbitterorsweet.Ifbitter,thenrepeatuntilsweet.OjaiisalsoacertifiedBcorpandtheyoperatetheirserversoffofwindpower,theyusecompletelyrecyclablepackaging,andworktobuildrelationshipswiththefarmerswhogrowtheingredientstheyuse,ensuringfairtradewages,andonlysupportingregenerativefarmingpractices.Findoutmoreaboutthemandgetaspecialgiftatojaienergetics.com/wellnessmama

Heather:Hey,welcometothe"WellnessMama"podcast.ThisisHeather.

Katie:AndI'mKatie.Andtodaywe'regonnatalkaboutlessonslearnedfromFinlandinarecenttripthere,andspecifically,gothroughsomeofthebenefitsIthinkthatallofuscantakeawayinourmodernlifeevenifwe'renotgonnabeinFinland.

Heather:I'msoexcitedaboutthispodcastbecauseeventhoughweliveclosetoeachother,IbasicallybeenfollowingalongonInstagramandhaven'treallygottenyettohearaboutyourtrip.Soit'sgonnabefun.So...

Katie:Yeah.SoI'llkindofbasicallythebackgroundofthetrip,ifyouguyslistenedtotheepisodeIdidwithTeroIsokauppilafromFourSigmaticinthesummer.Iinterviewedhim.I'veinterviewedhimtwicenow.Onceabouthisbook,"SantaSoldShrooms"andonceinthesummeraboutmushroomsandtheirmanybenefits.Andit'ssomethingI'msuperfascinatedby.Iknowthatyou'realsoreallyfascinatedbymushroomsandwhat


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theycandoforourbodies.Andafterthatinterview,Ijustkeptaskinghimquestionsandhe'slike,"Hey,doyouwannagoonatriptoFinlandandactuallyseewherethesecomefromandlearnaboutthem?"Anditwasthesummer.Itwassuperhothere,soIwaslike,"Oh,yeah,ofcourse,signmeup."AndthenthedetailsstartedcominginthatitwasgonnabeinJanuary,whichisthecoldesttimeoftheyearinFinland,andnotjustFinland,butnorthernFinlandinLaplandandbasicallytheArcticCircle,likeacrossthelineontheArcticCircle.Andatthatpoint,IrealizedIdon'townasinglepieceofclothingthatisappropriatefortheArcticCircleandstartedresearchingthat.ButthedetailsjustkeptrollinginofwhatwewouldbelearningandkindofhowwewouldbegettingtoimmerseintheFinnishculture.

Soifyou'refamiliarwithFourSigmatic,it'saFinnish-foundedcompanythatnowisalsoinCalifornia.AndtheirmissionistobringmushroomstotheU.S.andtogetthepeopleintheU.S.toconsumethesehealthymedicinalmushroomsonadailybasis.AndinFinland,whentheyfirststarted,theyactuallydidthiswithteas.Sotheymakecombinationsofteamixedwiththesemushroomsandpeoplelovedit.AndthentheyrealizedwhentheycametotheU.S.,nobodywasreallyinterestedinthat.Andit'sbecausetheyrealizedtheperceptionhereisthatteaisalreadyhealthy.Eventhoughnotallteasarehealthyatall,butAmericansalreadythinkofteaasprettyhealthy.Sotheydidn'treallyfeelliketheyneededtoupgradetheirteawhereasthemajorityofAmericansdrinkcoffeeandmostofthemreportwantingtoreducetheircoffeeconsumption,butveryfewpeopleactuallywantedtoquitcoffee.

Andsotheyrealizedthatmushroomswereagreatwaytohelppeopledothatbecausetheycanmakecoffeethatwaslesscaffeine,butmoreenergyandtheycouldusemushroomsandadaptogenstogetridofthejittersandsomeoftheaciditythatcomeswithcoffee.Sothat'showtheygottheirstartintheU.S.andthistripwasachancetogotoFinlandandseewheredifferentmushroomslikechaga,andreishi,andcordycepsaresourced,andalsotojustlearnabouttheFinnishculture.AndspecificallyinthisArcticregion,there'sapopulationcalledtheSami,whichTerowroteaboutalotinhisbook,"SantaSoldShrooms,"whichisareallyfunnyread,buttheyareanindigenoustribethat'slivedthereforthousandsofyearsandsurvivedinthisextremecold,longbeforeelectricityandeverythingwehavenowandtheystillhavekeptalotoftheirculture.SothatwaspartofthethingIwasmostexcitedtoseebecausewe,youknow,wealwayshearinhealthresearchabouttheseindigenoustribesandeveryonelovestoquotetheseindigenoustribesthatsupposedlydoallofthesethings.AndIwantedtoseehowtheyactuallylike,anddotheyreallylivelikethat?Andtojustgetafeelingfortheculture.IknowbothofuslovetravelandIthinkthat'soneofthepricelessgiftsoftravelisgettingtoexperienceanothercultureandanotherwayoflife.

Heather:Absolutely.Andit'sfunnybecausenotonpurpose,butIwasreadingoneofTero'sotherbookswhosenameIcannotrememberrightnow,butit'saboutjustmedicinalmushrooms.It'sanintroductiontoalotofthemandhowtousetheminfood,andthenalsoforlikeskincareandsomeprettycoolapplications.ButjustinreadingthatIwasamazedbyhowmuchknowledgethereisabouttheusesandalmostthespecificpersonalitiesofeachofthesemushroomsandhowtheydrawoutthingsfromusandtheyhavebalancingproperties,likehelpusadapttodifferentsituations.Andit'snotreallysurprisingwhenyouthinkaboutit,thatthey'readaptogensbecauseadaptogenshelpourbodiesadapttostress,andIreallycan'tthinkofanythingthatismoreintensethanbeingintheArcticCircle,especiallyinsomeofthesituationsthatyou'regoingtotellusabout,whichI'msoexcitedtohearabout.Butyeah,I'mreallyexcitedtohearwhatyou'velearned.Sowhy


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don'tyoujuststartuswith...whereveryouwanttolikewhatwasthefirstthingthatyounoticedinyourtimethere?

Katie:Yeah,itwasoneofthosefromthebeginning,almostjustsurrealexperiences.Ithinkanytimewe'reoutofourcomfortzonetoaprettyextremedegree,weareinauniquepositiontolearn.Soitstartedoff,forme,withovertwodaysstraightoftravel,andcrossing10timezones,whichisthemostI'devercrossed.Andthere'salotwecantalkaboutjustonjetlag,andtimezones,andadaptingtothat.Andthenwhenwegotthere,prettymuchimmediately,wejumpedintodogsleddingonthefirstnight,whichissomethingIdefinitelyneverexperienced.AndmanydogscangoIthinklike25or30milesanhour,theycangoprettyfastinthesnowandthenyou'restillbecauseyou'restandingorsittingonthesledwhilethedogsrunandhowlikebitingthecoldscanbe.Weweren'tquite...Idon'tthinkanyofuswhoarefromlikemorphregionswerepreparedforthat.Justhowmuchlikegoesthroughanyamountofclothingthatyou'rewearing,especiallywhenitwasinthenegative30sandalmostnegative40atthatpoint.

Andthenwesleptintheseigloosthatweexpectedtobecoldandironically,theygotsuperhot.Soatnight,we'reherelike85andduringthedaywewereatnegative30,andourbodieswerequiteconfused.Thefirstdaywasdogsleddingandsomeofthetravel.Andthenthenextdaywegottogoforagingforchagamushrooms,andlikeyoumentionedaboutmushroomsbeingadaptogens,Iwasshockedthattheystillareavailabletofindinthewinter.Thatthey,Imean,itmakessense,buttheynotonlysurviveinthecold,butthat'spartofwhatgivesthemtheirbeneficialproperties.Andsothemajorityofthemushroomsthatweconsidermedicinalactuallygrowontrees.Peopledon'talwaysrealizethat.Theydon'tgrowontheground.Andagain,beforeIsaythis,IshouldsayI'mnotadoctor,orabotanist,oranythingelsethatwouldbequalifiedtogivethisasadvice,sodon'tgoeatanymushroomswithoutcheckingwithallofthosepeople.

ButthewayTeroexplainedit,mostmedicinalmushroomsgrowontrees,andveryfewofthemushroomsthatgrowontreesaredangerous.IthinkifI'mrememberingonlyonespeciesthatgrowsontreesisactuallydangerousandmostofthedangerousonesgrowontheground.HealsosaidthatintheU.S.there'srelativelyfewspeciesthataretrulydangerous.Ithinkitwasmaybe20,ofwhich4arecommon.Soingeneral,mushroomsaremostlysafeandIthinkifweputinthetimetolearnaboutthemandlearnaboutsourcingthem,wecouldprobablyactuallywildforageeveninourownenvironmentshere,buttherewewerelookingforchagaspecificallywhichgrowsonbirchtreesandyoubasicallylikescrapethesnowoffandyou'relookingfortreesthatarestartingtodie,buthaven'tfallenyet.Andtheyhavetheselikedarkblackthingslikechagaandreishi,andyoucanfindtheseonthetrees.

Andsowewereliketraipsingforseveralhourstraipsingthroughthigh-deepsnowtofindthese.AndatfirstIwaslike,"Oh,it'llbelikewalkingthroughsand."Itisnotinfact,like,walkingthroughsand.It'sreallyhard,andifyoufallyoualmostcan'tgetupveryeasilybecauseyou'renowlikeundersnowandthere'snothingtopushupagainst.Youhavetokindoflikefallbackwardsandsquatatthesametimetostandupanditwasreally,reallyhumorous.Weallkeptlikepushingeachotherdownforwards,soit'slikedominoesdowntheline.AndoneoftheguysonthetripisaUFCfighteranditalmostlikepushedhimdownfrombehind.Iwaslike,IwasgonnakickouthiskneeandIwaslike,maybenotkicktheUFCfighter.That'snotagoodplan.


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Heather:No,no,IwasjustgonnasaythethingthatmakesthissomuchfunformeisknowingthatyouandIliveneartheocean.Andsodomostofthepeoplewhoareonthistripwithyou.Soyouguysaretotallyoutofyourelement,butthechagamushroomsandthereishi,whatIloveaboutthisisthatwhatyou'redescribingisthesemushroomsthatarethrivinginanextremeenvironmentandit'ssoeasytocallorslapasuperfoodlabelonanything,butthereissomethingreallyspecialanduniqueabouttheseplantsthatcanthriveinextremeenvironments.Theydeveloppropertiesinordertodothatthatalsocanconveyalotofbenefitstohumans.

SoI'mprettyimpressedthatyouwereabletoforageforthemandafterreadingTero'sbookIstartedlookingforalocalmycologicalsociety.DidIsaythatmycologicalsociety?Thereyougo.BecauseIwanttoforagenotjustbecauseI'msureIcouldgofindthematthelocalhealthfoodstoreorwhatever,orindriedform.I'veusedthemtomaketinctures,butthisis,Imean,lifeisaboutcreatingtheseexperiences,andappreciatingandconnectingtowherethesethingscomefrom.Sothatisonmybucketlistnow.You'realittleaheadofmeonthisone,butI'mwillingtofollowuponthisanddoitalso.SoI'mexcited.

Katie:Ilovethat.Yeah,definitelysomethingwecangetourkidsinvolvedinaswell.Ithinkwecanlearnsomuchfromourenvironments,whereverweare.AndIthinkmushroomsgrowalmosteverywhere.That'ssomethingTerotalkedaboutishowthere'slikeamushroomormyceliummatunder,Ibelieve,partofUtahthatislikethousandsofacresofbigundergroundjustactuallyalsohowmuchDNAwesharewithmushrooms,whichisshockingtorealizelikewe'reprettysimilartothemandtheyhavealotofthingsthatarebeneficialtousbecauseofthat.Soweforagedformushroomsand...

Heather:OnethingIwanttoaddisthatyoupointedouthowmanypharmaceuticalsarebasedonmushroomextracts.Like,they'renotjustusedinliketherapeuticorintegrateofapplications,theyarebeingusedtomakemedicines.Sothat'sprettyinteresting.

Katie:Andthat'sagreatpointtoo,becauselikealotofthemushrooms,weactuallygottoseewheretheyforageforalotoftheseandlikethereishiandchagaforinstance,IthinkitwasthereishithatcomeslargelyfromSiberiaandfromthisArcticregion.Soit'swildgrown,likewild-foundforagemushrooms,whichisreallyraretofind.Alsotheonesthattheygrow,theygrowinthenaturalenvironmentusingthenaturalmethodsbecausesometimesmushroomsaregrownon,Ithink,like,sawdust,orGMOcorn,orallkindsofdifferentgrowingmediumsthenarenotproducingjustlikeifyougrewvegetablesinanon-optimalsoil,youwon'tgetthesamenutrientprofile,you'renotgonnagetthesamegradeofmushroomifyou'regrowingitinacheapermediumlikethatorsomethingthat'snotasnutrientdense.There'sjustsomanylayerstothis.

Andpartofgoingintothetrip,Iwasnervousaboutalotofaspectsofit.Partially,Ididn'tknowanybodyelseonthetripreallyatfirstotherthanoneperson.Andsomeoftheexperienceswerenew,butIkindofwentintoitgoing,"Okay,ifmykidsweredoingthis,Iwouldtellthem,youknow,jumpinwithbothfeet,enjoyeverymoment,liveitupandexperienceitfully."AndsoImadethatpromisetomyselfgoingforwardintothetrip,Iwaslike,I'mjustgonnasayyestoalltheexperiencesandjustdoitevenifthey'reslightlyterrifying.And


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soitwasalotoffunstufflikethedogsleds,orwegottodrivesnowmobilesandgoicefishing.Andironically,onlytwoofuscaughtafishandwewerebothparents.Sowewerejokingthatitwasbecausewehadthis,like,calmingenergythat,like,calledthefishbecausewewereparentsorsomething,butonlytwoofuscaughtfish.

Butthefoodtheretoo,isveryseasonal.Soasyoumightimagine,it'ssocold.Itdoesnotunfreezeformonthsandmonthsandnotonlythat,it'sdarkformonthsandmonthsbecausethey'resofarnorth.Theycallitthepolarwinter,wherethere'slittletonosunlighteachdayduringthewinter,sotheydon'thaveevengreenhouseswhereyoucangrowthingswithoutlight.Andtheycan'treallyfarmthingsinthewinter,evenanimals,it'stoocoldforthemtoproducemilk,orit'sjustacompletelydifferentclimate.Andsotheirversionofeatingseasonallyissomuchdifferentthanwhatwemightexperienceherewhere…andthiswasanotherthingIwaslike,"I'mgonnasayyestoeverythingwhenIgetintothis."Anditwasreindeertongue,andreindeerheart,andprettymuchreindeerforeverymeal.AndIwaslike,"Okay."Solikereindeerandberries,pickles,potatoes,andtroutwasprettymuchtheentiretyofourdietwhilewewerethere.Anditwassoneattogettoeatthosefoodsintheplacewheretheyoriginallycamefrom.Butitalsoreallydrovehomelikewhenyoudon'thaveaccesstoagrocerystorewithfoodsflowninfromallovertheworld,youmakedowithwhatyouhave.Andyoumaketheseamazingwaysthatittastesdelicious.AndImean,theyliterallyhavetomixupthosefivefoodsforprettymucheverymealandtheydidagreatjobofit.Andsoit'sreallycooltoseethat.

Heather:That'samazingandIfeellikethere'ssomuchwisdominthatbecauseIknowthatduringthesummertheyaregrowingalotmore,andthey'reforagingalotmore,andthey'reeatingalotmoregreens.Anditremindsmethatalthoughwedohaveaccesstoalotoffoodsyearroundwhenwe...notthatI'mrecommendingeatingforagefoodsallthroughwinter,butwhenwe...IknowthateveryspringIgothroughlikeatwotothree-weekperiodwhereIliterallyIcaneatmyweightinsalad.LikeIjustcan'tgetenoughandthere'ssomethingabouttheswitchofseasonssignalsmybodytosortofpullinallofthosegreensand,youknow,atfirstIthoughtIreally...myhusbandlaughbecauselikeoneeverymonth,Ithinkit'slikeMarch-ish.Hewaslike,"Whatisgoingonwithourgrocerybill?"AndI'mjustlike,youknow,"Idon'tknow."Imean,Ieatlikeamillionsalads.And,youknow,butthere'sthiswisdomtothatandsowecanincorporatesomeaspectsofthatintoourlifethroughouttheyearandthere'sbenefittoit.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.IthinkI'mgoingthroughthatrightnowbecauseIthinkmybodysoconfusedafterbeingforlike10daysindarknessalmosttheentiretime.AndthenourflightbackoriginallylandedinCalifornia,anditwaslikeallthesunshine,wewerealllike,"Itburns.Itburns."Likeitwassobright.Andnow,I'mcravingallthegreenthings.IhadliketwobunchesofcilantroandtwobunchesofparsleyasapestofordinnerlastnightandIwaslike,"Thisisgreat.ThisisallIwant."

Heather:I'mgoingthroughaparsleythingtooandmyhusbandislaughing.Iliterallymadeaparsleysalad.We'retalkingjustparsley,andlemon,andoliveoil,alittlebitsaltandpepper.AndhewatchedmeandIateitandwaslike,"I'mgoingtothestoreandgettingmore."Idon'tknowwhy.


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Katie:That'sawesome.Anditspeakstoobecausethere'ssomanymicronutrientsinplantsandespeciallyherbs.AndifI'mrememberingthestat,isn'titthatweusedtoeatlike200ormoretypesofplantsandnowmostpeopleeat15foodsperiod,notevenplantsbutjustfoodshavewhichlikecorn,wheat,soybeansandpotatoesormostofthose.Like,we'velostsomanymicronutrientsinourdiet.AndIknowthat'ssomethingthatyou'vealsobeenresearchingandthatyou'vealwaysdoneaprettygoodjobofimplementingisgettingmicronutrientsfromavarietyofplants.Notjustvegetables,butherbsaswell.Canyoutalkaboutthatalittlebit?

Heather:Sure.Imean,IrememberthefirsttimeIstayedinagrocerystore,andIreallystartedunderstandinglike,howmuchdiversityourancestorsusedtoeat.AndsoIlookedaroundandIwaslike,well,there'slikefivetypesoflettuceand,youknow,likethere'scarrots,butthey'rejustdifferentcolors.Notthatthat'sgood,likethatpresentsdifferentnutrients.ButalotofwhatIwasseeingwasbasicallylikedifferenttypesofcucumbers,butnothugerepresentativepopulationsofdifferenttypesofplants.SoIstartedtryingtolookintowaystoincorporateawiderspectrumofplantsfromalldifferentsources,andthethingthatIfoundthemostthat'seasiestistomakealotofherbalteasandinfusionsusingallkindsofdifferentherbs.SoIhaveabigcabinetandIhaveaglasspotandit'slikeaelectricteakettleandeverymorningIwakeandIjustbrewwhateversoundsgood.Sometimesit's,youknow,stingingnettlewithpeppermintorsomethingelse.ButI'mtryingtopullinthosemicronutrientseverysingleday,eventhoughitdoesn'tseemlikeasignificantamount.

Alotoftimesinthesecultures,peopleweren'teating,youknow,massiveamountsofaparticularthing,buttheywereseekingitoutforitsnutritivepropertiesinjustsmallamounts.SothatisonethingIfoundreallyhelpfulandItrytomixupteabycolors.SosometimesI'mdoingalotofreds.SoonethatIreallylike,isSchisandraberry,whichIthinkgrowsinSiberiaandtheArcticCircle.AndthereasonIknowthatisbecausetheywerehunting,Ithinkreindeer.Theyusedtochewtheberriesbecauseitactuallyimprovestheirvisionatnight.Sotheywentandstudieditlaterandfoundthatitdoessupportvisionanditsupportsstamina.Sowhenyouhaven'teatenandyou'rehuntingandyouhaven'tsucceededyet,youneedsomethingtokeepyougoingandthoseberrieswerehowtheydidit.Again,growinginthoseextremeenvironmentstheyhelpuswith,youknow,perseveranceandstamina.

Katie:Andspeakingofreindeer,that'sanotherexperiencewegottohave.Wegottovisitthistribe,theSamipeoplethathavelivedthereforthousandsofyearsthatareknownasthereindeerherders.Andifyou'veeverseenaNationalGeographicoronline,they'retheoneswhereyoumaybesawlikealittlechildsittingonareindeer.Itwaslikethisgorgeousfurcoat,andlikethey'rebeautifuleyes.Andthey'realotoflikebeautifulblueeyesandblondhairbecausetheyneedmorevitaminD,theydon'tgetverymuchvitaminDupthere.Sothey'veadaptedtoamorefairfeaturestobeabletoabsorbvitaminDmoreeasily.Butit'samazing,theirinteractionwiththereindeerandnowthey'relargelywhat'skeepingthereindeerpopulationsuptherealivebyherdingthem.Andsotheywereexplaininghowinthewintertheyhavethemonthefarmsandtheyaretakingcareofthem.Andtheninthesummer,thatreindeergetavacationandtheyletthemgoandthenthere'sthesereindeerherdingassociationsthatactually,like,roundthembackupeachyear.Sothey'regettinglikeit'sawholenewversionoffreerange.


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Butjusttoseethebeautyofthesepeople,likeyoumentionedhuntinglikeforthem,iftheydidn'thunt,theydidn'teat.Itwaslikeverymuchsurvivalandhowtheyweresoamazing,howtheyusedeverything.Sotheywoulduseeverypartofananimalinmakingclothingorstayingwarm,orforfood.AndtheywouldlikeatraditionIbroughtbackfromthemthatIlovesomuch.Theymakethesecupscalledkuksa,whicharelikeawoodencup,andthey'recarvedoutofonepieceofsolidwoodfromacurlybirchtree.AndIthinkittakesayear,theysaid,tomakethemfromstarttofinish,becausethere's...ifI'mrememberingit,16stepsthattheyhavetogothrough.Likethesanding,andthesoakingincoffee,andsoakinginsomethingelse.It'slikethiswholelongprocessandthenwhenyougetoneofthesecups,theysaythatyoudon'tactuallyownit.You'rejustborrowingitfromyourgrandchildrenbecausetheylastsolongandthemoreyouuseitfromjusttheoilsinyourhandsthatoutsidegetsthisstrongersheenandpatina,anditliterallyjustgetsbetterwithage.Andfromusingitforteaandcoffee,theinsidegetsthislikeshineandtheyhadonethatwasalmost100yearsold.Anditwaslikealmostlikemarble.Itwassobeautiful.Andtothinkofallthosehundredsofpeople,orwhoeverhadtoucheditthatmanytimes,andjustthebeautyofhowtheyuseeverything,andthey'resolikeconscientiousabouthowtheyinteractwiththeenvironment,andwiththeresourcesthattheyhave.

WemetthisgirlnamedEssy,who'spartofthetribeandshemakesbootsoutofreindeerfur,andeventhebottomisfur.Youonlyweartheminsnow.Andittakesherfivedaystomakeonepairofboots.Andthat'slikeherpurposeinthistribe,andthat'swhatshedoesistomakebootsandthesespecialwoolshawlsthattheyhave.ButtheystilllargelymakethesetraditionalSamioutfitsthatarebeautiful.Theyhavelikereds,andyellows,andblues,andthenelementsofreindeerandleather.It'ssobeautifultoseethatcultureandhowthey'vetriedtoreallylikeholdontoandalsore-awakenthatcultureinmoderntimes.Becauseit'ssoeasyfortheseindigenoussocietiestolosepartofthatasthemodernworldcomesinandthey'vereallyworkedhardtokeepthebeautyoftheirculture.Anditwasamazingtoseethat.

Heather:IsawthosecupsassoonasIwalkedinandtheyarestunning,likethey'resobeautiful.Idon'tknowthatthisistherightword,buttheyfeelalmostalive.Likethere'stheshapeofthem,theyhavelikeamovementtothemandthey'rejustbeautiful,captivating.Weretheycalledkuksi?

Katie:Kuksa.

Heather:Kuksa.Okay,thatsoundsbetter.

KatieAndthatwastheonethingIbroughtbackassouvenir.IactuallydonatedacouplepiecesofclothessothatI'dhaveroominmysuitcasetobringbackoneofthesecupsforeachofmykidstomakeafamilytradition.Iknowwe'vetalkedmanytimesonthispodcastaboutexperiencesinsteadofjustgifts.Andtome,thatwassomethingoftheculturethatIcouldbringbackthatwasareminderofbeingagoodstewardofourresourcesandmakingtimeforthingsthattaketimeandslowtimetogetherwithfamily.Andsothat'soneofourfamilyritualsnowiswe'lldrinkeitherinthemorningteaoutofit,likemushroomteafromFourSigmaticorhotchocolateatnightorwhateveritisoutofthosecups,andthenhangthembackontheselittlehooksonthewall.Andit'sjustafunfamilybondingactivity.


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Heather:That'sawesome.Speakingofkids,IknowthatFinlanddoessomethingsdifferentlywhenitcomestoculturewithkids.Socanyoutelluswhatyouobservedwhileyouwerethere?

Katie:Forsure.IwishIcouldhaveteleportedsomepeoplefromheretotheretoseeitbecauseIhavegottenscoldedbyelderlypeoplewhereweliveforlettingmykidsplayoutsidebarefootwhenit'scold,andbycoldImean55degrees.Andthesekidsareoutplayingnotbarefoot,butinnegative20negative30degreetemperaturesforhoursandtheywerelovingit.AndyouhearthestoriesfromdifferentpartsoftheworldhowitmightbeDenmarkandSweden,orFinlandmaybewheretheyputthebabiesintheselikelittlebassinetstrollerswrappedupinablanket,warmandthentheyleavethemoutsidewhilethemomsgointhecoffeeshopanddrinkcoffeeorteaorwhatever.Andthebabiesgetallthisextraamazingbrownfatandit'sgreatfortheirbraindevelopmentandtheirimmunesystemaresuperstrong.Ithinkwe'rejustmaybelikeafraidofextremes,likeanythingthatseemshardwe'reafraidtoletourkidsexperience.ButthebeautyofwhatIsawintheFinnisheducationsystem,andIkeptaskingthepeoplewhoweretherefromFinlandquestionsabouttheireducationsystemandhowtheyteachkids.Anditwassofascinatingtoseethatsomany...andalsotonotebeforeIstarttalkingaboutit,Finlanddoesreallywellonstandardizedtestingisasourcelikelookingatworldwideeducationlevels,liketheytestreallywellcomparedtoothercountries.Andthey'realsohappy.Sothat'sareallyimportantdistinctionisyouhavehappykidswhoarealsosmart,whoarealsofullyfunctioningadults,whohavecareersthatmakethemhappyandaresuccessful.Sothoseareallmetricswewantforourkids.

Soit'saskingalotofquestionsofhowtheyfosterthatintheireducationsystemandintheirfamilies.Andwhatwasreallyinterestingistheydolessschool,lesshomework,moreplayandthey'rebetteratit,like,allofthethingsthey'rebetterat.SowhereasintheU.S.kidsmighthavetobeatschoolat7:30or8:00inthemorning,theydon'tusuallystarttill9:00or9:45andtheyfinishby2:00or2:45.Duringthattime,theymightonlyhaveafewclassesevenatthehighergrades,butthey'llhaveacoupleoftwo,orthree,orfourrecessesortimesoutside.AndwewentforawalkwhenwefirstlandedinHelsinkibeforewetookthelittleflightupNorth,andwesawmultipleclasses,includingpreschoolersplayingoutside,sleddingdownhillsforhours.Andus,it'slikeAmericanswereusedtothesun,wewerelike,"Ohmygosh,it'ssocold,thosepoorkids."Theydidn'tlookcoldatall.Theywerejustlovingthesnow,gettingsomuchexerciseliterallyrunninginadeadsprintupthissteephillsotheycouldslidebackdownitagain.AndjustlikeblissfullyhappyanditmademerealizelikeIfeellikekidshavethatsessionandinnateneedforplayandsodoadultsandwe'velostthat.Thatwasactuallyanotheroneofthelessonspersonallyformeonthetripwasrememberingwhatit'sliketoplay.Oneofthepeopleintripisacompetitorin"AmericanNinjaWarrior."Buthismissionisthathewantstoremindpeoplethathumans,evenasadults,weneedplay.AndsoitwasthefirsttimeIhadreally,like,thoughtaboutthatasanadult,like,weexerciseorweworkandwedoallthesethings,butwedon'tdothingsbecausethey'refunasmuchanymore.

Heather:Yeah,weturnedourplaybackintoworksomehow,youknow,like,we'resupposedtogetout,runaround,andhaveagoodtime.Butinstead,wefiguredoutawaytolike,mechanizeitandmakeitnotasfun.ButImean,nottosaythatIdon'tloveworkingoutorthattherearen'ttimeswhenthat'shelpful,becausesometimesyoujustfititintoyourroutinewhenyouknowyoucanandthoseendorphinsdomakeyoufeel


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better.ButIgetwhatyou'resayingbecause,youknow,IusedtoequateplayaslikeIhadtositonthegroundeverydayandplayLegoswithmykids.Andforme,that'snotactuallyathingthatIreallyenjoy.I'mjustgonnasaythatveryhonestly.Sorediscoveringwhatplaylookslikeasanadultisjustnottheeasiestthing.Like,youdon'tjustknowwhatmakesyouhappy,becauseit'sdefinitelynotplayingLegos,evenifthatwaswhatmadeyouhappywhenyou'reakid.Butit'sworthittryingtofindout,andI'msortofinthatpathtoooftryingtofigurethatout.

Katie:Yeah,Ithinkforme,thatwasauniquething.BecauseIhadmadethatthingI'mgonnasayyestoanythingthatcomesup.AndalsoseeingpeoplelikeTravisonthetrip,whowasthe...that'swhathedoesisteachespeopletoplay.Andeverywherehewent,he'slike,"Oh,IbetIcoulddoahandstandonthat."Andthat'sasanadult,somethingI'veneverthoughttomyself.Like,I'veneverlookedatlikeafour-foottowerandbelike,"Oh,IbetIcoulddoahandstandonthat."Iwouldneverthinkaboutatall,buttoseehowmuchfunthatwas,anditbecamethislikerunningjokeonthetripoflike,couldhedoahandstandonamovingsled?Couldhedoahandstandonareindeer?Couldhedoahandstandontopofme?Andhedidlikeallofthesethings.Hereallycoulddoahandstandontopofanything,buthehadsomuchfun.Oritwascouldhebackflipoffthebridge?Whichhedid.Orcouldhebackflipoffof,youknow,thishugepileofsnow?Whichhedid,orthesnowmobile.

Butjusttosee,likeadultscanactuallyfindtheirthingandhavefun.Sosincethenwe'regonnaputinasortof"AmericanNinjaWarrior"themedtreehouseinourbackyard.Sostaytunedfortheplansforthatontheblogeventually.ButjustbecauseIwantmykidstonotlosethat.Like,it'ssomethingIamnow,it'sokayifIcoulddoahandstandisinfactharderthanitlooks.ButIwaslike,I'mgonnalearnhowtodothat.Idon'twantmykidstolosethat.Soitwasagoodremindertokeepplayingforourkids.

Heather:Itotallyagree.AndIthinkthemorewelearnaboutthevestibularsystemandhowit'sconnectedtobothouremotionalandourintellectualprocessingabilities.Ithinkthere'svaluethereandoneofthesadthingsisoftenweremovethingswithoutrealizingthatwe'retakingawayafunctionalaspectofwhoweare.Soweoften…likeweputplayinacategoryasnotimportantwheninfactittotallyis.It'salotlikecommunityinthattheeffectscompoundovertime.Solikeyoudon'tspendonedaywithyourfriendandthenyou'relike,youknowwhat,ImadethishealthychoiceandI'mgoodforlife.Youknow,butthosewhodospendconsistenttimeandtheyformthosetiesandtheyhavelonger,healthierlives.AndIthinkpeopleasI'mlearningtocomemorephysicallyactiveandlike,Iliketoswim,anddive,and,youknow,there'sotherthingsthatcandevelopvestibular.

Iactuallydailybalanceononefootandclosemyeyesbecausethatreallychallengesyourvestibularsystemifyou'relikeme,andyouhaven'tactivateditformanyyears.Sothat'swhatIdo.Iswitchsidesandclosemyeyes.Becauseifyoucanbalanceonyourfootwithyoureyesopen.That'sawesome.AndIcantooandthenIclosemyeyesandthenI'mlikehoppingallovermyfloor.Mychildren,like,standandwatchandlaugh,butIcandoitforquiteawhile.Itwasonlyminimalhoppingandsometimes,butyeah,Ijustthinkthatwesometimestakethingsawaybeforerealizingthattheyhavethesefunctionalbenefitsthatwejusthaven'tidentifiedyet.


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Katie:Yeah,Ithinkyouputthatsowell.AndsothatwasoneofthebiglessonsIdefinitelytookwithmewastofindwaystoplay.Andit'sbeenfuntokindofrelearnthatasagrownupandfindwhatthosethingsare.Becauselikeyousaid,I'mnottheLegoplayingonthefloorpersoneither,butit'sfunto,like,gooutsideandplay,ortofindthingsthatareplayfulandfunforyouasanadult,whichisgonnabetotallydifferentthanwhenyou'reakid.

ThisepisodeisbroughttoyoubyKettleandFirebonebrothandsoups.I’veusedtheseproductsforyearsandalwayskeepmypantrywellstockedwiththeirproducts.Theyhavechicken,chickenmushroomandbeefbonebroths,whicharegreatasabaseforsoupsorevenjustsippedontheirown,buttheynowalsohavetomato,butternutandmisosoupswhichareoftenpartofmealsatourhouse.Theirnewestproductsareagrass-fedchiliandthaichickensouparewholemealsontheirownandmakelastminutedinnersoeasyatmyhouse!Theirbrothsaremadefromgrassfedandpasturedanimalbonesandareagreatsourceofcollagenandaminoacidslikeprolineandglycine.Iincorporatecollageninsomeformeveryday,andKettleandFiremakesitsupertasty.Gotokettleandfire.com/wellnessmamaandusecouponcodewellnessmama20for20%off.

ThispodcastisbroughttoyoubythebestCBDI’veevertriedandtheoneIfeelisthebestoutthere.ItiscalledOjaiEnergeticsandhere’swhyit’sawesome…First,itsover20xmoreabsorbablethatmostCBD,whichmakesitanincrediblevalue.Over99%ofOjaiCBDgetswhereitneedstogoinyourbodybecauseoftheirpatentedcolloidaltechnology(itisnotliposomal)like90%oftheCBDonthemarket.Infact90%oftheCBDintheseoilsdon’tevenmakeitpastthegutandliverandintotheblood.Thisiscalled,“TheFirstPassEffect”.Then90%oftheCBDthatdoesmakeit,isn’tintherightformforthecellsthatneedit.Ojaisolvesthisproblemwiththeircolloidalsystem.IwasskepticalandthefirsttimeItriedit,Ifeltanoticeableeffectinabout15secondswhichissomuchfasterthanthe20-30minuteswithotherbrandsI’veused!SonowwheneverIfeelanystressoranxietyorhaveproblemssleeping,IusetheirCBDoil.TheirCBDisderivedfromcompletelyorganicingredientsandbatchtestedby3rdPartyVendors,whichisimportant,forHeavyMetals,VOC’S,Pesticides,Herbicides,Microbes,andforthecontentofTerpenes&Cannabinoids.Becausethisversionabsorbsfaster,youalsocanknowifyou’regettingtherightdoseastoomuchisnotoptimal.Here’show:BecauseOjaiworkssorapidly,itcausesyourbody’scannabinoidreceptorsinthetonguetomodulate.ThetastewillbebitterwhenyourbodyneedsmoreCBD,butwillchangetosweetwhenyouhavehadenough.Sototestthis,justtakea¼dropper,wait30seconds,thenfeelifit’sbitterorsweet.Ifbitter,thenrepeatuntilsweet.OjaiisalsoacertifiedBcorpandtheyoperatetheirserversoffofwindpower,theyusecompletelyrecyclablepackaging,andworktobuildrelationshipswiththefarmerswhogrowtheingredientstheyuse,ensuringfairtradewages,andonlysupportingregenerativefarmingpractices.Findoutmoreaboutthemandgetaspecialgiftatojaienergetics.com/wellnessmama

Katie:Alsowithintheirschoolsystem,sotheydon'tdostandardizedtests.Sothey'renotteachingkidsforatestandthey'reveryfocusedonindividualizededucation.Andevenfromayoungage,theywouldidentifylearningstylesorstrengthsinkidsandthennurturethoseinmoreindividualizedways.Andtheywouldhavesmallerclasssizesandtheywouldstaywithteacherslongersotheteachercouldlikereallyfocusonthedevelopmentwiththekids.AndalsoIfoundoutfromthemthatteachersaresoprizedinFinland.SointheU.S.,Ifeellikeweunderpayteachers,weundervalueteachersandtheyworksohard,andlikewe'llpay


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doctorssomuchmoneywhichtheyalsodowonderfulthingsalotoftimes,butthepeoplewhoareliterallyformingourchildren'sbrains,weunderpayandoverwork.

AndinFinland,it'ssodifferenttobeateacher,thereislikeahighlyrespectedposition.AndIthink…whattheysaidislikeonly10%ofpeoplewhoapplygetacceptedasteachers.Andmostofthemhavemaster'sdegreesormore.Andthey'resopassionateaboutwhattheydoandthey'resorespectedinsociety,becausetheyrealizethey'redoingsuchimportantwork.Soit'sjustacompletelydifferentparadigmtherecomparedtolike,you'regoingtositinadeskalldayandlearnthesefacts,it'smuchmorewe'regoingtofindawaywithyourindividuallearningstyleandwhatyouneedtonurtureyouintothebestpersonthatwecanforourcountry.Andit'sjustit'samazingtoseethebusinessesthatarecomingoutofFinlandandhowmuchthey'rereallylikeshowinguponaglobalarena.AndIthinkalotofitprobablygoesbacktotheeducationsystem.Wecanlearnalotfromthat.

Heather:That'samazinganddefinitelyfoodforthought.IknowthereareacoupleofmaybebooksoutalongthoselinesormaybesomeresearchIwouldlovetolearnmoreaboutwhatthey'redoingspecificallyandhowthey'reidentifyingthatinchildrenbecausethatisreallycool.Icannotletyougetawayfromthispodcastwithouttalkingaboutsaunasthough,becausewe'reobsessedwithsaunas.We'renotinasauna,today,we'reactuallyhangingoutinyourcloset.But,youknow,mostofthetimewedorecordinthesauna,andIwanttoknowwhatitwaslikein,like,oneofthetraditionalsaunasthattheyhavethere.

Katie:Absolutely.Infact,I'mgonnagetprobablyprettyvulnerablewiththispart.IdidalittlebitonInstagram,butforus,thiswasthelastfulldayattheveryendofthefulldaythatweweregonnadothesauna.Andwehadtheschedulefromthebeginning.SoIknewwhenitwasgoingtohappen,andIknewitwascoming.AnditwasprobablythethingIwasthemostscaredabout.Imadethiswhole"I'mgonnasayyes,andI'mgonnadoit."Andwehaveacoldtubatourhouse,andwehaveasaunaatourhouse.Soit'snotlikeIhadn'tsortoftrainedforthesethingsbefore,butbecauseofthat,Ialsoknewlikeourcoldplunge,thecoldestitgetswas36degrees.Andthat'sprettybrutal.Andit'sstillwater.

InthiscoalplungewasessentiallyanArcticwaterthatwasmoving.There'slikeariverthat'sconnectedtotheArcticOcean,theycutaholeinitsothatyoucangetinit.Andit'sstillmovingprettyquickly.Andit'slike20degrees.Andtheonlyreasonit'snotfrozenisbecauseit'smoving.Andtheairoutsideisnegative25degrees.Soyoudon'tevengettogetwarmwhenyougetoutuntilyougettothesauna.Andsoit'satraditionalsmokesauna,theonethatwewentin.FunfactaboutFinland,theyhaveoverhalfasmanysaunasaspeople.Soprettymucheverywhereyougo,youhaveaccesstoasauna,whichItotallyget,becausewhenyourbonesareliterallychilledtotheboneallthetime,that'sliketheonlyplaceyoucanreallygetwarmandalsoprobablyisamazingfortheirimmunesystems,justthehotcoldandtheadaptability.Sotheyhavetwotypesyoucan…theydoactuallyhaveinfraredsaunasnowthereaswell,buttheyhadthesetraditionalsaunasthatwerelikeelectricallyheatedwhichissimilartothebarrelsaunawehave.Andthentheyalsohadsmokesaunas.

AndthebestIcandescribethis,itwaslikealogcabinthatwastwostories,itwasprettybigandonthebottomfloorislikethebiggestwoodstoveI'deverseen,likeatleastprobablyfivetimesasbiglikeastove


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oventhatyouwouldseeintheU.S.,butallwoodburningforthesmoke.Andthenontopofit,we'realloftheserocks.Sokindofhowyouwouldseerocksinasauna,butjusthuge,likemuchbiggerscale.Anditwasventedoutsidewiththechimneys,you'renotinhalingthesmoke.Andthen,ofcourse,becauseheatrises,youcan'tjustsitonthegroundfloor.There'sasecondstorytothiscabin,whereyougoupthere,andyou'relike,sandwichbetweenallthesepeople.Andforus,itwaslikeabunchofreallysweet,olderFinnishguys,andabunchofJapanesewomenwhowerevisiting.Anditwasjustareallyfundynamicinthesauna.

Andsowestartedthere,andIknewthecoldwascoming,andIwaslike,dreadingit.Iwaslike,"Iwonderhowhotitcanget."AndIjustkeptsittingthere,andsittingthere,andsittingthere,untilmyheartrategotreally,reallyhigh.AndIwaslike,"Dang,I'mgonnahavetogetinthecoldwater."Andsoonceyougetoutofthesauna,youhavetothenwalk...Idon'tevenknowhowfaritwaslikeprobably30,40feettothecold,thenyouhavetowalkintothecold.Andthenafterward,youhavetowalkback.Butyou'renowcold.Sotherailingyoutouch,it'slikelickingafirepole.Likeyousticktoit,yourfeetstartfreezingtotheground.Andthenthere'slikekindofastampedeofpeoplewhowanttogetbackinthesauna.SoIknewitwascoming.

AndasItalkedaboutalittlebitonInstagram,forme,thetoughestpartwasalsosomanypeopleonthistrip,likeImentionedwerelikeinthefitnessworld,orUFCfightersorwhoever,thatareverymuchlikeinthefitnessworld.Sotheykindoflikelooklikemodels.Liketheyhadeightor12packs,orhowevertheycountthoseIdon'tknow.ButIwaslike,mystomachhashadsixkidsandhasC-sectionsscarsandstretchmarks,andIdonotlooklikethat.AndIdefinitelywasbeingreallyhardonmyselfandlikejudgingmyselfinanticipationofhowIthoughtIwasgonnabejudgedbyothers.AndthatwasactuallyironicallythepartthatIwasthemostscaredabout.Like,inhindsight,itwasreally,like,enlighteningtolookandbelikeIwasmorescaredaboutwalkinginaswimsuitinfrontofpeople,30feetthatIwasaboutgettingin20degreewater.Like,that'smessedup.Butthat'swhatwomendo,that'swhatwedotoourselves,wejudgeourselvessoharshly.AndsoIhadcommittedthatIwasgonnadothis.Andtheysaid,it'sgoodifyoucandoitatleastthreetimes,andit'sbesttofinishwiththecold.Sothatway,yourlymphaticsystem,everythingjuststaysrampedup.SoIwaslike,okay,I'mgonnasayyestodoingitthreetimes.Idon'tknowhowlongI'mgonnamakeit,butI'mgonnagetinthewateratleastthreetimes.

ThefirsttimeIwentinwithacoupleoftheothergirlsandIwaslike,"Oh,heck,no,no,no,no."AndIgotrightbackout.Andthenwentbackinthesauna.AndthenthesecondtimeIwaslike,"Okay,IthinkIcandothislittlelonger."AndIsat,probablylike20or25seconds.Andthenbackinthesauna,thegirlshadmostlygonebackintochange,soitwasjusttheguysleft.AndIseeevensomeoftheguysonlylastlike10secondsandmycompetitivenesskindofkickedinbecauseIwaslike,"Okay,thatwasbad,butthatwasnotlaborbad."AndIhavehadlaboralotandIdidthatforlike24hours.Icandothisforalittlelongerthan20seconds.AndsooneoftheguysandIstayedinforaminuteandthatwasabigvictoryformenotjustthatIlastedaslongastheguysinthatcold,butalsothatI...

Heather:Wait.Whatdidyoujustsay?Howlongdidyoustayin?

Katie:Aminuteonthelasttime.


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Heather:Ohmygosh.

Katie:AndImeanitwas...whenIgotoutmyskinwashotpinkbecauseoflikethehot,cold,hot,coldandIdon'tthinkI'veevershiveredquitesohard,butthentheyaresorightwhentheytalkaboutthecontrasttherapyandwhatitdoesforyourbrain.ItwaslikesomeonehadturnedonalightswitchinmyheadandIwasjustlikewhoa,hellobraincellsIhaven'tseeninawhilelikesomuchmentalfocusandsomuchclarity.

Heather:DoesitincreaseBDNF?Iknowthatsaunadoes,butdoesthealternatingalso?

Katie:Yeah,itsaidtoo.AndIthink...

Heather:Sorry,thatwasnerdspeakforabrain-derivedneurotrophic.Ican'tsayitneurotrophicfactor,anditmakesyousmart.

Katie:Ohyeah.Weprobablyshoulddefinetheseterms,orwestartthrowingaroundrandomacronymsandnoonewouldknowwhatwe'retalkingabout.Itdoes.AndIthinkthere'slikewhenwelookattheresearch,there'sseparatebenefitsofthecold,andalsooftheheat,andthenseparatebenefitswhenyoucombinethem.SoIthinkifyou'remakingthispartofadailypractice,it'sgoodtosometimesjustgetcold,sometimesjustgethot,andsometimesgobackandforth.Andthat'swhatwe'vekindofdoneinourhouse.Butnow,afterFinland,I'mlike,"Ohman,ourcoldplungeonlygetsdownto36degrees.It'snotreallythatcold."Althoughoursaunagetsprettyhot,soIguessthat'sprettycomparable.

Butthatwas…itwas,like,asurprisingvictoryforme.Andtogetevenalittlebitmorevulnerable.Sothey,ifyoureadthebook,"SantaSoldShrooms"thatTerowrote,it'sbasicallyabouthowalotofthetraditionsthatweassociatewithSantaClausgobackpreSt.NicholastotheSamipeople.Andthey'rekindoflikemedicineman,howhewoulddresslikethat,hewouldcomedownthechimneybecausethatwastheonlywaytogetintothehutoncethere's12-feetofsnow,howtheywouldhangtheseredandwhitemushroomsontreestodrythem.Anditwaslikeornaments.Itjustallthesecooltie-insand…

Heather:AndthetreeswereinsidethehousebecausetheyneededitforvitaminC,right?IsthatwhatI'mrememberingyoutoldme?

Katie:Yeah,theywouldbringthetree,liketheywouldbringawholeevergreentreeintothehousewiththesemushroomshangingonit.Andthesemushroomsarealsotechnicallyconsideredpsychedelic,butnotinthesamesensethatIguesslikecertainpsychedelicswouldjustbeconsideredfun.Likethemedicineandtheyhadalotofrespectfortheseandtheywouldusethemaspartoftheirlikeceremonialrightsanddifferentthings


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becausetheyfelt,like,youcouldlearnalotaboutyourselforabouthumannatureorwhatever,throughtheuseoftheseinaveryrespectedway.Andjustlikeotheraspectsoftheirculture,Ifeltliketheydidn't…...WhereasinAmericasometimesIthinkpeoplegetintothesethingsforparty,thiswasnotatallwhatitwasforthem.Itwasverymuchaplantthattheyrespected,butwerecautiousof.

Heather:Isn'tthatkindoftoolikehowweseedifferenttraditionslikeincertainBlueZones,there'salotofrespectfor...peopledrinkwine,whichdoesalteryourmentalstatus.Butwe'retalkingaboutinrespectful,smalldoses.Nobody'sgoingcrazy.They'renotthrowinggiantparties,ifthatmakessense.It'satotallydifferentvibethanwayoverconsumingsomethingwhichwouldbeharmful.

Katie:Yeah,absolutely.Andsotheironyofthewholeexperiencewasthatnight.SothesemushroomstheAmanitamuscaria,whatthey'recalled.TheSantaClausmushrooms.Ifyou'veseenthemushroomemoji,it'sliketheredwithwhitespotsmushroom,that'swhatitis,orlikeonMario,that'sexactlywhereitcomesfrom.Andthey'retechnicallypsychedelicandthey'refoundthere.Thisisdefinitelyone,asacaveat,youshouldnevertrytoharvestyourselfnomatterwhatbecausethere'sonethatlooksjustlikeitthatwillkillyouinstantly.ButIknewthatthatnightwewouldalsogetthechancetotrythoseinaverysmalldoseifwewantedto,buthehadexplainedlikethereasonthatthesearelegalhereisbecausenoonedoesthemforfun.Like,they'renotapartything,likeyou'renotgonnahavelikeafun,happyexperience,it'slikeyou'llfaceallofyourinnerdemons,youmightfacetheideaofdeath,likeit'sgonnabehard,andawful,andterrible,andwhatever.AndIwasmorescaredaboutwalkinginaswimsuitfor30feetthanIwasabout,like,facingdeath.LikeliterallyinmyheadIwaslike,"Okay,IjusthavetogetthroughthiscoldwaterandswimsuitthingsoIcanfacedeath."

Likeitreally,reallymademerealizewow,likewomenwe'reso...atleastforme,I'msohardonmyself.AndmaybeIshouldjuststartrespectingmybodyforwhatitcando,andnotwhatitdoesordoesnotlooklike.Andthatwasjustreallyenlighteningforme,anditwasalsointerestingjusttobeabletotrysomethinglikethatinasmalldose.Wedidn'tfeelanypsychedeliceffectwhatsoever.Butjusttotrythatinaplacewhereitoriginatedandwherethere'ssucharespectforit.Anditwasagoodlessoninhowplantscanhaveaprofoundimpactonpeopleandhowtheyshouldberespectedandhowsmallamountsjustlikeweweretalkingaboutwiththeherbscanhaveareallyprofoundimpactonourbody.That'ssomethingthatIthoughtaboutalotthereaswell.Ifeellikesooftenweunderestimatethepowerofherbsoradaptogens,ortheselikenon-psychedelic,anymushroominsmallamountstoaffectourpsycheoraffectourbodyinapositiveway.Butyet,wedon'tunderestimatehowaMotrincouldtakeawayourheadache.Andit'ssotiny,isanequallysmallamount.Andwegiveallthiscredittopharmaceuticalsforwhattheycando.Andwetrustthatthey'regonnahaveaneffectandweignorethatmaybeit'ssuchasmallamountofanherborplantcouldalsohaveareallybeneficialeffectonthebodyaswell.

Heather:Yeah,andIthinktoo,it'sinterestingbecausewetalkedearlierabouthowthere'ssomanymushroomderivativesinpharmaceuticals.Sothere'sdefinitelyaprecedentthere,andnottogettoofarofftrack,butIknowthattheconceptofpsychedelicsisreally,likeforme,thisisnotaconversationIeverexpectedtobehaving.ButIhavereadsomereallyamazingresearchinthelastcoupleofyearscomingoutaboutothertypesofmushroomsthatarebeingusedinclinicalsettingsintheU.S.forstudyingeffectson


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thingslikePTSD,thatarenotrespondingtoanyothertreatments.Andwe'retalkingabouttinydosesthathavetherapeuticandlifechangingeffectsforpeople,andwe'renottalkingaboutlike,theyneedtohavethesemedicineslikedaily,we'retalkingaboutoneortwodosesthatcanhavealifechangingimpactonpeoplewhoaresufferingfromPTSD.So,youknow,butthereissomethingtothat.

Katie:Yeah,Iagree.Ithinkthisisaconversationthatwillbecomemoreprominentinthenextfewyears.IknowevenDenverhasputoneofthosetypesofmushroomsontheballottodecriminalize,butitreallystruckmeseeingaculturethathasbeentraditionallyusingplantsbothforfood,formedicine,andforlikethiskindoflikewaytoimproveyourselfforsomanyyears.Andthathassucharespectforit,andtheyjustlookedatitsodifferentlyandthentocometotheU.S.wherecertainplantsareactuallyillegal,butthentherearedrugsthatliterallycankillyouthatareconsideredsaferthanthoseplants.Itwasjustreallystrikingthatwewouldputtrustinsomethingsomanmade,butalsoatthesametime,ignorethatsomethinglikeparsley,orwhateveritmaybe,youcouldhavesuchaprofoundeffectonthebody.

Heather:Andnottoswitchtoomanygears,butIwantedtogobacktoonethingIlearnedwhileyou'reaway,feltrelevant,isthateveninFinland,theyprioritizethesesaunassomuchforhealthandforwellbeing,thatthey'reliterallyeverywhere,includinginprisons.Like,it'spartoftheirculturethatisingrainedthatmuch.Ijustthoughtthatwassointeresting.

Katie:Andevencommunitysaunas.Partofthegroup…Iwasn'tthereforthispart,butthefirstnighttheygotandtheyhadalayoverandtheywantedtofindasauna.Andtherearelike,hugegroupsaunaswhereyoucangothatarereallynice,butthere'salsolikecommunitysaunasjustlikewewouldhaveapark,likeacommunityparkandtherewasapparently,like,twosaunasoutsidekindoflikebyaconstructionsiteinthemiddleofnowhere,peoplecouldjustgoandusethesesaunas.They'rejustthereforanyonebecauseit'ssuchanimportantpartoftheirculture.AnditwassostrikingforAmericanstogettoseethatandthey'relikeliterallypeoplejustlikestandouttherelikeyouundress,getinthesaunaandthenyoujustlikegetbackdressedinthesnowandgoonyourway.

Heather:SoforpeoplewhowannahavetheirownmanyFinnishexperienceherewherewelive,I'mthinkingthatitwouldjustbefuntomentionacoupleofthings.Oneisthattherearealotofplacesnowwhereyoucanfindasaunalikeyoucanjustgoto.Theyaresometimesingyms,butthenthey'reactuallyhaving...theyhavestudiosnowthatoffersaunatherapy.Sotakeafriendandgo,andanotherthingisifyouwanttoImean,Ican'tofferyouice...whatisit?Polaricewater,Arcticicewater.Sure.Buttheyhavecryotherapy,andalotofthebiggercitiesnowhavethat,whereyoucangoandstandit'slikenegative20.We'vedonethatbefore.It'snothingcomparedtolikegettinginthewater.Don'ttellmethat.Letmelivewithmyvictory,okay?Butyeah,likethere'ssomewaysthatwecouldhaveaminiFinnishexperiencethere.IsthereanythingelseyouwouldrecommendfromacommunalaspectofsomeonewhowantedtoplanlikeaminiFinnishdayandthattheycoulddojustwithafriendthatwouldsortofreplicatesomeofyourfavoritetakeaways?

Katie:Yeah,that'sagreatpoint.Ithinkyoucoulddothehotcoldeventhoughitwaslikejusticeinyourbathtubandasaunaorlikeyousaid,there'scommunitysaunasormoreandmore.EvenintheU.S.,people


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areputtingsaunasintheirhomes,whetheritbeportablesauna,orevenjustlikebuiltinsauna,likeyouandIbothhavesaunasbecausethatwasapriorityforourfamily.AndIthinkthatlikethemushroomaspectof…andFourSigmatichasallofthose,butyoucanalsogetmushroomsthroughthegrocerystore.ButIthinkthat'sabigpartoftheirculture.Andmyfavoritesarelikereishiandchagaaretwoofmyhandsdownfavorite.Chagaissuperhighinantioxidants.It'sactuallythemostantioxidantrichsubstanceontheplanetgramforgram.Anditmakesreallydeliciouselixirteawhenyoujustmixitwithwater,samewithreishi,reallyhelpswithsleep.

AndanotherinterestingaspectIforgottotouchonearliertooisthatlightaspect.SoyouandIhavebothwrittenabouttheimportanceoflightforcircadianrhythmandwhyit'sgoodtolikegooutsideinthemorningandgetsunshinetolikesignaltoyourbodythatit'smorningtokeepyourcortisolrhythmcorrect.Well,Finlandhasaninterestingchallengewiththis,especiallythenorthernregionsbecauseinthesummertheyhavelikealotofsunlike20plushoursofsunandinthewinter,theyhavelittletonosunlightatall.Andsowhenwewerethere,itwascalledthepolarwinteranditwasbasicallylikeanhourofsunriseandthenanhourofsunsetandthatwasit.Andsothey'vehadtogetcreativeinthewaythattheyadapttothat.Somostofusareluckywecanjustgetsunshinedaily.Eveninthewinter,wecangetsunlightandgetoureyesexposedtosunlight.Theyarereallygoodaboutusingthingslikeblackoutcurtainstheytalkedaboutinthesummer.

Inordertosleep,theywouldhavetouseblackoutcurtainsintheirrooms.AndtheykindofIthink,like,pioneeredplaceswhereit'srequirementlikeAlaskaandFinland,etc.They'vehadtodothesethings.Whereasforus,it’sgreattodo,butforthem,that'sisanecessity.Andthensimilarlyinthewinter,theywouldhavetogetlightexposuresomehow.Soinalotofthecommunityplaceswheretherewasasauna,wewouldalsoseewhattheycallthesolarium,whichwaslikeavitaminDlamp,basically.SoitwaslightandvitaminD,orthey…outofFinland,camethecompany,theHumanCharger,whichbasicallyshineslightinyourears,whichisanothersignalingmethodthatit'sdaylight.Andsotheyreallyunderstandandhavefiguredouthowtotuneintotheimportanceoflightforyourcircadianrhythmandevenhowtoadapttothatinaplacewhereyou'renotgonnagetitfromthesun.Ithinkthat'sanotherthingwecouldtakefromFinlandistogetenoughdaylight,tomakethatapriorityinourmorningsmaybedrinksomemushroomteaorcoffeeoutsideinsteadofinside.Theysaiditevenjustexposureonacloudydayissomanythousandsoftimesbrighterthanthebulbsinsidejustdifferentspectrumsoflight.Oruseoneofthose10,000luxpluslightsinthemorningjusttosignalyourbodythatit'sactuallydaytime.Andthatwasanothercoollessontheyweremuchbetteraboutthanweare.

Heather:Awesome.I'msogladwegottocatchup.Andnow,Iwanttogolookatthosemugsagain.

Katie:Absolutely.Andallthethingswementionedwilllinktothesaunasandthenmushroomteaandallthat.IfyouguyswannarecreateFinlandandalsojustahugeshoutoutandthankyoutoFourSigmaticforreallyshininglightonthecultureandlettinguslearnlessonsfromthat.Andthat'ssuchacorevalueIknowforbothofourfamilies,Ifeellikeyoucanlearnsomethingfromeveryexperienceandeveryperson,butespeciallyfromeverycultureanditwassobeautifulandlifechangingtogettoseethatone.


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Andasalways,thankstoallofyouguysforlisteningandforjoiningusandsharingyourtimewithus.Wedon'ttakethatlightly.We'reverygratefulandhonoredthatyouchosetospendtimewithusandIhopethatyou'lljoinmeagainonthenextepisodeofthe"WellnessMama"podcast.

Ifyou'reenjoyingtheseinterviews,wouldyoupleasetaketwominutestoleavearatingorreviewoniTunesforme?Doingthishelpsmorepeopletofindthepodcast,whichmeansevenmoremomsandfamiliescouldbenefitfromtheinformation.Ireallyappreciateyourtime,andthanksasalwaysforlistening.

episode 232: lessons learned from finland€¦ · following along on instagram and haven't...

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