driscoll vs. busch, jan. 13, 2015

FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE KENT COUNTY ROOM 5

------------------------X

IN THE MATTER OF:

PATRICIA P. DRISCOLL,

Petitioner,

Vs.

KURT T. BUSCH,

Respondent.

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File No.: CK14-02747

Petition No.: 14-30621

Transcript of Proceedings

January 13, 2015

FAMILY COURT OF THE STATE OF DELAWARE KENT COUNTY FAMILY COURT 400 Court Street Dover, DE 19901

HONORABLE DAVID W. JONES, Hearing Officer

The owner of this transcript will not copy, alter, transfer or otherwise use in an inappropriate manner. Inappropriate use includes, but is not limited to, using this transcript or the content of this transcript for the purpose of harassment, embarrassment, entertainment, inflicting emotional distress, exploitation, blackmail, loss of employment, and/or commercial gain.

INDEX

W I T N E S S E s

PETITIONER: RE RE WITNESS DIRECT CROSS DIRECT CROSS J. Wood 152 168

RESPONDENT: RE RE WITNESS DIRECT CROSS DIRECT CROSS K. Busch 4 38,41 49 R. Sniffen 54 134 149

E X H I B I T S

PETITIONER: IDENTIFICATION DESCRIPTION I. D.

RESPONDENT: IDENTIFICATION DESCRIPTION I. D.

R20 Text messages between P. Driscoll and R. Stiffen

v. D.

v. D.

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J

J -39

IN EV.

IN EV.

115

PROCEEDINGS 3

1 THE CLERK: All rise. Family Court State of

2 Delaware and - - now in session. The Honorable David

3 Jones presiding in the matter of Driscoll versus Busch.

4 Pl.ea·se .be seated in the courtroom.

5 MR. RUSTY HARDIN: Good morning, Your Honor.

6 THE COURT: Good everyone.

7 MS. MCNEICE: Good morning, Your Honor.

8 THE COURT: I apologize for the delay in

9 getting before you today. I had an emergency custody

10 matter that I had to deal with before we could reconvene

11 our hearing. When we left yesterday evening, Mr. Busch

12 was on the stand. Mr. Busch was on the stand. Sir,

13 obviously you're still under oath. And, Ms. McNeice.

14 MS. MCNEICE: Yes, thank you.

15 K U R T B U S C H, having been first duly

16 sworn, testified as follows:

17 CROSS EXAMINATION

18 BY MS. CAROLYN MCNEICE

19 Q: Good morning, Mr. Busch.

20 A: Good morning.

21 Q: You're here today to complete your testimony. Is

22 there any reason why you can't testify at this time?

23 A: There is not.

24 Q: Okay. Are you under any medication or the influence


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CROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE

1 of any other substances?

2 A: No, rna' am.

3 Q: Okay.

4 THE COURT: May I ask that you use the

5 microphone. I couldn't hear you.

6 MS. MCNEICE: I'm sorry, move it?

7 MR. HARDIN: Just make sure you speak into it.

8 MS. MCNEICE: Use it, okay. Sorry.

9 [eros stalk]

10 Q: You heard testimony and you've admitted yourself

11 that 2011 was a dreadful year for you with regard to your

12 drinking, correct?

13 A: It was a rough year.

14 Q: Rough year, okay. There was testimony from your

15 assistant that this was a year that you were going through an

16 emotion upheaval with your divorce, starting a new

17 relationship and some changes in your professional career

18 also.

19 A: 3 percent of the time doesn't define somebody 100

20 percent of the time.

21 Q: I appreciate that. 3 percent of your life was in

22 2011 is that what you're saying?

23 A: I would say that there's 365 days in 2011 and 3

24 percent of those days might have included some of the


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4

CROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE 5

1 testimony that we've heard about the drinking.

2 Q: So you were drinking on how many days?

3 A: I don't know the math off hand. 3 percent--

4 Q: [interposing] But you figured it was 3 percent.

5 A: 3 percent of 365, yeah.

6 Q: Okay. Well 10 percent would be 36 so, 10 percent of

7 that would 3.6 days?

8 A: It sounds about right.

9 Q: You drank on 3.6 days--

10 A: That's 1 percent, yeah. So less than 10, mm-hmm.

11 Q: Okay. 3 percent would be 9 days.

12 A: Okay.

13 Q: Okay. Do you recall the incident in Chicago that

14 your secretary talked about yesterday?

15 A: Which incident?

16 Q: The incident with the Chicago Cubs game where you

17 had hit her and had to be--

18 MR. HARDIN: [interposing] Your Honor, I--

19 excuse me. Go ahead finish your question I'm sorry.

20 Excuse me.

21 THE COURT: Mm-hmm.

22 Q: and had to be placed into a vehicle and taken out

23 of the area.

24 THE COURT: Mr. Hardin?


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1 MR. HARDIN: The relevance of this as the Court

2 has pointed out is not in the petition. There's been an

3 awful lot of talk about it. We initially didn't object

4 to it. We've tried to address these issues. I just

5 don't think it's more--longer relevant.

6 THE COURT: Okay. The relevance objection is

7 overruled. The witness gave character testimony that Mr.

8 Busch would not be physically aggressive towards others

9 and then testified that this incident occurred wherein

10 she described an act of physically aggression by Mr.

11 Busch. So I think he can be questioned about it. Thank

12 you.

13 MS. MCNEICE: Thank you.

14 Q: Do you recall this incident that your secretary was

15 talking about?

16 A: I recall the incident.

17 Q: Okay. So you were drunk but not that drunk, is that

· 18 your point?

19 A: I had been drinking that evening.

20 Q: Okay. Well your secretary said that you had so--but

21 she seemed to believe that it was only under those

22 circumstances that you would be--hit another person. Would

23 you agree with me that's what she said?

24 A: No, that's not what she said.

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1 Q: Okay. What was your recollection of what she said?

2 A: She said that I took a swing at her.

3 Q: Okay. But she seemed to think that that came about

4 because, .. :y;cm,,,:;w:ere . .drunk.

5 A: We had been drinking because we were at a ballgame.

6 And we were all getting into a cab together.

7 Q: Okay. So you weren't drunk?

8 A: I said I was drinking.

9 Q: No, I asked you were you drunk, sir?

10 A: I was drunk.

11 Q: Okay. But you weren't drunk when you ripped off the

12 rearview mirror following the New Hampshire race in September

13 of 2014?

14 A: No, ma'am.

15 Q: I'm going to go back and talk about some of the

16 things that we discussed prior to the Christmas break. You

17 indicated prior to the Christmas break when you were

18 testifying that you did have some contact professionally with

19 the Armed Forces Foundation.

20 A:

21 Q:

22 them?

23 A:

24 Q:

Yes, ma'am.

Do you still have that professional contact with

I do not.

Do you know that that's still listed on your bio?


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1 A: Everything has been frozen due to the criminal

2 claims.

3 Q: So you haven't made any changes to any of those--

4 that doca:unexrt.~:··

5 A: No, ma'am.

6 Q: On September 26th when Patricia and Houston entered

7 your motorhome, did you know that she had talked to your

8 mother earlier that week?

9 A: I did not.

10 Q: Okay. Would you have been upset with her if you had

11 known that at that time? With Patricia at that time?

12 A: No I wouldn't have. I would have expected it.

13 Q: Okay. Had she ever talked to your mother before

14 about her concerns for you?

15 A: Plenty of times.

16 Q: Okay. Had you talked to your mother about your

17 mother's concerns for your behavior, your drinking, your

18 anger?

19 A: Of course.

20 Q: Okay. In 2011 when you left the Penske Racing Team,

21 you indicated that you were going to see a sports

22 psychologist. Did you see that person, sir?

23 A:

24 race team.

I had been seeing him prior to that split with that


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1 Q: Okay. And what was that individual's name if you

2 recall?

3 A: Dr. Lefkowitz.

4 Q: Okay. And how long did you see this person?

5 A: I would say nine months.

6 Q: Did this physician ever recommend any medication or

7 prescribe any medication for you?

8 MR. HARDIN: Excuse me, Judge. This is really

9 irrelevant and inappropriate I think.

10 THE COURT: Okay. Objection as to relevance,

11 Ms. McNeice?

12 MS. MCNEICE: I would suggest it is relevant

13 particularly to the interaction of the parties and about

14 what my client knew about his behavior. Certainly it

15 provides a foundation for the concerns that she expressed

16 to him on September 26th and then even in the text that

17 Mr. Busch sent to her afterwards.

18 THE COURT: I'll allow the witness to answer

19 the questions.

20 Q: Did that physiciart prescribe--or this person

21 prescribe any medication for you?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

He did.

Okay. What was that medication?

I don't remember the name of it. I do remember that


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1 my body felt weird and I don't like the way that it made my

2 mind focus during the races.

3 Q: Okay. I said--I apologize.

4 A: We changed it afterwards.

5 THE COURT: So this is a psychologist who

6 prescribed medications for you?

7 A: I can't remember if it was a psychologist,

8 physiologist, sports management guy, I can't remember his

9 official title.

10 THE COURT: Okay, all right. Because

11 ordinarily you have to be a medical doctor to prescribe

12 or I guess in some states in events there's a

13 practitioner or a psychiatric nurse practitioner that

14 prescribes. Okay thank you, sir. I just wanted to try

15 and clarify.

16 Q: Okay. So you did change to a different medication

17 is that what you said?

18 A: I actually changed doctors.

19 Q: Okay.

20 A: Similar to Good Will Hunting, you have to find the

21 right counselor that can connect with you first. One that

22 understood my sport and one that understood me.

23 Q:

24 A:

Okay. So what was this next doctor's name?

Dr. Williamson.


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10


1 Q: And that physician did he--or that person, that

2 professional, did he prescribe some medication for you?

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A: He did.

MR. HARDIN: 'I think going to this-- I'm going

to object again to the :relevance of this, Your Honor.

The different doctors he's seen?

THE COURT: Mm-hmm.

MR. HARDIN: I mean can I put her on the stand

and ask her the different doctors she's been too?

THE COURT: Well I think that this is relevant

because if it goes to Mr. Busch's mental state.

Ultimately if we get to the point of his mental health

state or his mental state on the occasion of the alleged

incidents whether or not there was a diagnosis that might

explain his conduct, it certainly is relevant. And the

objection is overruled.

Q:

A:

Q:

A:

Q:

A:

Q:

MS. MCNEICE: Thank you.

Did this professional prescribe medication for you?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And did you take it?

Yes I did.

How long did you take that medication?

I took it for four months.

And do you recall the name of that medication?


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1 A: I do not.

2 Q: Okay. If I said the name Wellbutrin to you does

3 that refresh your memory?

4 A: It sounds familiar, mm-hmm.

5 Q: Okay. Did you take that?

6 MR. HARDIN: I'm sorry I couldn't hear your

7 question. Do you mind repeating?

8 MS. MCNEICE: I asked him if--with Wellbutrin.

9 MR. HARDIN: You need to speak into the

10 microphone.

11 THE COURT: It is necessary that everyone be

12 able to hear. And, Mr. Hardin, if you can't hear just

13 please address the Court and the Court will make sure

14 that you're able. You may continue, Ms. McNeice.

15 Q: I asked you if it was Wellbutrin and you said you

16 recalled that name.

17 A: That sounds familiar. Uh-huh.

18 Q: And you said you took it for four months.

19 A: Yes, ma'am.

20 Q: Do you recall the period of time, the specific

21 months in which you took that medication?

22 A: It would have been the fall of 2012.

23 Q: Okay. And do you recall why you stopped taking it

24 after four months?


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1 A: Because again I didn't like the way that my body

2 felt with it when I was focused on my racing. And what's

3 unique about this whole questioning is that I took myself off

4 the medllie-ation and at the beginning of 2013 I remember

5 countless times when people said wow, you're really doing

6 great, you're turned the corner, we're proud of you, you know,

7 you hit rock bottom a couple years back and you're working

8 your way back up. And a few people close to me knew that I

9 was on medicine and yet I wasn't.

10 Q: Okay.

11 A: And that was back in January when I took myself off

12 of it and then that's--about four months went by and that's

13 when I notified my doctor and as well as Ms. Driscoll that I

14 wasn't on the medicine. And they were all very surprised and

15 proud of me.

16 Q: Okay. So you took the medication for four months,

17 went off the medication but didn't tell anyone for four more

18 months. Is that your statement?

19 A: That was my statement exactly.

20 Q: Okay. And you said people said to you you've turned

21 the corner, what corner is that, sir?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

The rock bottom corner.

What rock bottom corner?

Where my business life and my personal life were in


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1 shambles and I got that turned all around.

2 Q: Good. Do you recall the testimony of the motor

3 coach driver Mr. Domcheff?

4 A:.; Yes, rna' am.

5 Q: You were in the courtroom when he testified correct?

6 A: Yes, ma'am.

7 Q: Okay. Is he still your motor coach driver at this

8 time?

9 A: Yes, rna' am.

10 Q: And have you spoken with him recently?

11 A: I have.

12 Q: Do you recall that when he testified he indicated

13 that he thought that the week before the New Hampshire race

14 that you and Ms. Driscoll had been, as he described, at the

15 border?

16 A: I believe he described her at the border.

17 Q: Okay. It was my understanding that he said that you

18 had both been at the border.

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MR. HARDIN: Objection. That's not the

testimony.

THE COURT: Yeah as I recall the testimony, I

believe the witness testified that he was told by Ms.

Driscoll of an event where she had been at the border and

had sustained some injury of some sort at that border.


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1 And that Ms. Driscoll had alleged that Mr. Busch had been

2 with her on an operation, either that operation or

3 another operation at the border, allegedly capturing

4 illegal aliens.

5 MS. MCNEICE: I apologize.

6 THE COURT: That's my understanding of the

7 testimony.

8 MS~ MCNEICE: I understood him to say that they

9 had both been at this border.

10 THE COURT: Mr. Domcheff had no personal

11 knowledge. His testimony was what Ms. Driscoll had told

12 him.


14 Q: Okay. Do you recall where you were the week before

15 the New Hampshire race?

16 A: The race before that would have been Chicagoland

17 Speedway. The start of the chase, the playoffs in NASCAR.

18 And at that time all focus of mine is directed at the race

19 team and the race tracks. There would be zero chance of me

20 being on the border or goofing off that week.

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

The week before the New Hampshire race?

Yes, rna' am.

Okay. Where did you spend the week?

Whether it was in Charlotte with the race team to


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1 make sure that we had all of our upcoming setups and

2 preliminary planning set forth for New Hampshire and Dover--

3 those would have been the first segments of the chase. And

4 you try to get all your pre-planning done. And I did that

5 because I knew I was on a holiday vacation the week after

6 Loudon.

7 Q: When was Loudon?

8 A: The New Hampshire race, September 21st was that

9 race.

10 Q: Okay. So you were planning to go away?

11 A: Yes. It was to get my homework done so that I could

12 go out and play.

13 Q: Good theory. Okay. I'm continuing to check my

14 notes for other comments that you made. When we spoke before

15 Christmas, sir, you outlined what you recalled about the

16 incident of September 26th. You said that you had had a

17 mediocre performance and that you were upset that evening.

18 A: Yes, ma'am.

19 Q: Had you in fact yelled at any of your team members

20 after this mediocre performance?

21 A: No. I remember sitting there in the lounge, the

22 hall or the office area, of the garage for our race team with

23 my head between my knees going 22nd is pretty rough, we'll

24 have our work cut out for us. We didn't need to qualify


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1 quarterly for this race with our backs up against the wall.

2 Q: Okay. And you indicated further that you had

3 watched this movie and the movie brought out an emotion in you

4 that made you feel that you needed to take a look at where you

5 were and where you were going, correct?

6 A: Yes, ma'am.

7 Q: Okay. You found some analogy bet.ween the movie and

8 your personal life, correct?

9 A: Yes, ma'am.

10 Q: All right. Then you went to bed--

11 A: Yes, ma'am.

12 Q: Excuse me. There had been some texting between you

13 and Ms. Driscoll at this point?

14 A: Yes.

15 Q: Okay. And we have that information on the

16 Plaintiff's exhibits. You indicated that you went to bed, you

17 were laying in bed or maybe you were lying in bed--I'm never

18 sure what the word is. But you were--and then you had fallen

19 asleep is what you told us.

20 A:

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 there?

Yes, ma'am, that's correct.

And Patricia walked in with Houston.

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. Do you recall Houston hugging you when he got


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1 A: He might have.

2 Q: Okay. You said you told Patricia to leave

3 essentially. You also told her apparently that you thought

4 that she had some spies or had some ability to watch what you

5 were doing?

6 A: That was later in the conversation--

7 Q: Okay.

8 A: when that reference might have come up.

9 Q: It might have come up?

10 A: But that's when I felt uncomfortable with her being

11 there knowing that she tapped into my ADT at my house to check

12 the camera movement during that week.

13 Q: Okay. But you hadn't been at your house that week

14 before?

15 A: I had not.

16 Q: And this is the house in North Carolina?

17 A: Yes, ma'am.

18 Q: Okay. You said that you got up twice and took

19 Houston back to watch the TV. And that you then reentered the

20 room again and said to Patricia you have to leave after the

21 first incident, correct? First walking of Houston.

22 A: Yes, ma'am.

23 Q: Okay. And then you took him out a second time but

24 she stayed in the room this time and that's when you carne back


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1 and cupped her cheeks.

2 A: Yes, ma'am.

3 Q: I want you to help me see how the room is lined up.

4 . ~, MS. MCNEICE: Your Honor, may the witness have

5 the Respondent's exhibit that related to the drawing that

6 he made on the--

7 THE COURT: That's Respondent's 15.

8 MS. MCNEICE: -- schematic of the--

9 THE COURT: Do you want to provide that to Mr.

10 Busch?

11 Q: You have before you, Mr. Busch, the schematic of the

12 interior of the motor home.

13 A: Yes, ma'am, that's what I have.

14 Q: It's been marked as an exhibit and you're referring

15 to that now.

16 MS. MCNEICE: May I approach, Your Honor?

17 THE COURT: Sure.

18 Q: Follow with me if you will, sir, the format you

19 might have used as you walked Houston the second time from

20 your bed back to the front of your motorhome.

21 A: The format that I would have used would have been to

22 get out of the left side of the bed--

23 Q:

24 A:

Yes.

-- and walk to the foot of the bed--


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1 Q: Excuse me for one second.

2 MS. MCNEICE: Can you hear? Thank you.

3 Q: Go ahead.

4 A: Walk by the foot of the bed to grab Houston and take

5 him to the front to put him on the sleeper sofa.

6 Q: Okay. All right so Houston would have been standing

7 at the foot of the bed, sir?

8 A: He was in this region next to Ms. Driscoll.

9 Q: Okay. And I note that this is where you have a P

10 and K. Is that a K?

11 A: Yes, ma'am.

12 Q: And those seemed to be circled and there's a wall

13 where the P is standing and the bed is where the K is?

14 A: Yes, ma'am. And they're touching.

15 Q: And they're touching.

16 A: The circles.

17 Q: Okay. Thank you. So you took Houston to the

18 sleeper sofa and then you walked back yourself, correct?

19 A: Yes, ma'am.

20 Q: All right. Sir, what didn't you get back into the

21 bed on the side of the bed that's closest to the door?

22 A: That's not my side of the bed. I sleep on the left

23 side of the bed.

24 Q: I understand. So you walked around the bed, is that


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1 correct?

2 A: Yes, ma'am. And got into the open side of the bed

3 where the sheets were folded down.

4 Q: Okay. With your intent of getting back into bed.

5 A: Yes, ma'am.

6 Q: Okay. And Patricia was standing there.

7 A: Yes, ma'am.

8 Q: And this is at the time when you touched her face

9 correct?

10 A: Okay so the second time now, mm-hmm. The second

11 time of walking back by her.

12 Q: Oh okay. Because you had walked by her--

13 A: [interposing] The first time to put Houston in the

14 front.

15 Q: During--the first time you took Houston out there or

16 as an attempt to get out of the bed and go back for the second

17 trip?

18 A: Both times that I put Houston in the front.

19 Q: Okay. And while you are coming around the foot of

20 the bed onto your side of the bed, this left, it's at this

21 point that you walked past Patricia and turned and put your

22 hands on her face correct?

23 A:

24 Q:

That's where I stopped and cupped her cheeks.

Okay. Is that putting your hands on her face?


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1 A: I suppose it is.

2 Q: Okay. How long did you leave your hands on her

3 face, sir?

4 A: Approximately two seconds.

5 Q: Okay. And did you tilt her head back at all while

6 you had your hands on her face?

7 A: I may have but her body was up against the wall.

8 Q: Okay. Thank you.

9 MS. MCNEICE: Do you want this back?

10 THE COURT: If you're going to go back to the

11 podium she wants that back.

12 MS. MCNEICE: Okay. I understand. Thank you.

13 Q: Sir, when we first talked in December about this

14 incident you used the expression that you came up to her,

15 stood face to face and your expression was I took my hands and

16 cupped her cheeks, looked her eye to eye. Does that

17 characterize the incident?

18 A: Yes, ma'am.

19 Q: Okay. And you were standing this whole time,

20 correct?

21 A: Yes, ma'am.

22 Q: Okay. Did you tell the police that you looked her

23 eye to eye?

24 A: Yes, rna' am.


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1 Q: And did you tell the police that you cupped her

2 cheeks?

3 A: Yes, rna' am.

4 Q: Do you recall telling the police anything else about

5 the time that you had your hands on her face?

6 A: That I cupped her cheeks, I looked her eye to eye

7 and I told her she needed to leave.

8 Q: Is that the extent of the comments you made to the

9 police?

10 A: Yes.

11 Q: Do you recall when you gave this statement to the--

12 this is the Dover Police we're talking about. Do you recall

13 when you gave that statement to the police?

14 A: It was within a few weeks of them calling. I was

15 able to make it out here as soon as possible.

16 Q: Okay. And I take it you were sober during this

17 interview.

18 A: Yes, ma'am.

19 Q: You weren't under arrest, correct?

20 A: No, ma'am.

21 Q: Fully voluntary for you to come to Dover and talk to

22 the police.

23 A:

24 Q:

Absolutely.

You were accompanied by an attorney?


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1 A: Yes, ma'am.

2 Q: Was that Mr. Liguori?

3 A: Yes, Mr. Liguori was there.

4 Q: '.·:~b.o.dy .else with you?

5 A: Yes, ma'am.

6 Q: Who else was with you?

7 A: Mr. Hardin.

8 Q: Were they both present while you were giving the

9 interview?

10 A: Yes they were.

11 Q: I think I asked you this. Voluntary conversation

12 with the police?

13 A: Yes, absolutely. When Detective Wood called me on

14 my phone I picked it up and said that I would be happy to

15 answer any questions that he had.

16 Q:

17 A:

18 Q:

19 recall?

20 A:

21 Q:

22 recorded?

23 A:

24 Q:

Okay.

And to fully cooperate.

Okay. How long did your interview last if you

I'd say 30 minutes.

Okay. Did he tell you whether or not it was

Yes.

Was it recorded, sir?


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24


1 A: Yes, rna' am.

2 Q: Okay. After Patricia left the motor coach on the

3 evening of September 26th, you had no further contact with her

4 that wee:kend# ... correct?

5 A: No, ma'am.

6 Q: No it's not correct or no you had no contact with

7 her?

8 A: No contact.

9 Q: Okay. Your next--well excuse me, you did have

10 contact with her when you were texting her about the custody--

11 A: [interposing] I was going to ask you to define

12 contact.

13 Q: Thank you. So you texted her about this is it--

14 A: Mm-hmm.

15 Q: -- I'll support you for the custody. What did you

16 mean by support?

17 A: That my love for Houston meant that I was there to

18 support her custody case if she was to separate amicably. But

19 I knew she was going to fabricate a story and draw us here.

20 And so that text was to let her know I was extending an olive

21 branch.

22 Q: Okay. But then no further contact until October

23 5th, correct?

24 A: That's correct.


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1 Q: And you initiated the next set of texts on October

2 5th. Do you recall that?

3 A: I may have.

4 Q: Prior to that had you contacted Mark Dycio? Prior

5 to October 5th when you contacted Patricia.

6 A: I can't remember the timeline.

7 Q: Okay. Do you recall why you contacted Mark Dycio?

8 A: Yes I do recall.

9 Q: Why?

10 A: Because that's who I knew she'd go to.

11 Q: So that meant you wanted to go to him also?

12 A: I knew she'd go to him as a friend as well as--

13 Q: [interposing] Okay.

14 A: -- for legal advice.

15 Q: Okay.

16 A: And she has a history of putting lawyers on

17 retainers just to hold them. And so I was checking in with

18 him because of what I had heard she had done.

19 Q: What day was that, sir?

20 A: I go by race weekends. It's hard to remember. This

21 was Kansas race weekend, somewhere around that October date.

22 Q: Okay. Would that have been the beginning--the first

23 week in October, sir?

24 A: That sounds correct.


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1 Q: Okay. Would it have been exactly the Friday

2 following the incident on September 26th?

3 A: Sounds around that time.

4 Q: But when you contacted Mr. Dycio what did you find

5 out?

6 A: He found out that the only person that usually wins

7 in these situations is the lawyers.

8 THE COURT: The question, sir, is what you

9 found out when you talked to Mr. Dycio.

10 A: Oh what did I find out?

11 THE COURT: Mm-hmm.

12 A: Oh that Ms. Driscoll had retained Mark Dycio.

13 Q: Okay. But you hadn't contacted him to represent

14 you, is that your statement?

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

A: That is my statement.

Q: Okay. You only contact--

THE COURT: [interposing] Well my understanding

of the testimony is that Mr. Busch is saying that he was

attempting to contact Mr. Dycio to represent him but that

Ms. Driscoll had already retained Mr. Dycio and therefore

Mr. Dycio wasn't eligible to represent Mr. Busch. Is

that a fair characterization of what you indicated?

A: It's very close.

THE COURT: Okay.


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1 A: At time I was contacting Mark Dycio to check the

2 temperature on where Ms. Driscoll was headed with what we

3 wanted to do to exchange our belongings. Who had what items

4 in which house and to amicably separate as a couple.

5 Q: Okay. And in fact the correspondence we have

6 between Mr. Dycio and your attorney Mr. Copanegro [phonetic]

7 indicated that she was also interested in dividing the

8 property, coming to an amicable resolution of these matters,

9 correct?

10 A: Absolutely.

11 Q: Okay. With regard to your property, do you still

12 have property at the Ellicott City home?

13 A: There's some suits, golf clubs and a vehicle that

14 now has been picked up.

15 Q: The vehicle has now been removed, correct?

16 A: Yes my lawyer just contacted you I believe.

17 Q: He did.

18 A: Great.

19 Q: And how about Patricia's items? Are they still in

20 the North Carolina home?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

I have packed them up and put them in storage.

In North Carolina?

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. How about the other property division? The


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28


1 North Carolina LLC, has that been dissolved?

2 A: No it has not.

3 Q: Okay. So her home is still in this legal entity of

4 some sort.

5 A: Yes, ma'am.

6 THE COURT: Sir, just so that I can be clear.

7 If you understand it because there seems to have been a

8 number of different references to the LLC being involved

9 with Ms. Driscoll's home in a number of different ways.

10 A: Mm-hmm.

11 THE COURT: The Court's understanding based on

12 the testimony that I've heard thus far is that the LLC

13 essentially co-signer guaranteed Ms. Driscoll's mortgage

14 on the residence. Is that correct?

15 A: Yes, Your Honor. On her residence.

16 THE COURT: Okay. So the LLC isn't the owner

17 of the home--isn't the mortgagee on the home, the LLC is

18 the co-signer on the home.

19 Q: The LLC is in control of the home. Obviously the

20 bank owns the house. So the LLC operates the loan--

21

22

23

24

THE COURT: Mm-hmm.

A: that I guaranteed.

THE COURT: Okay. So the LLC guaranteed the

loan. The deed to the home is not in the LLC's name or


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1 is it is Ms. Driscoll's name? Do you know?

2 A: I would assume the deed is in Ms. Driscoll's name.

3 THE COURT: All right, thank you.

4 A:

5 THE COURT: That clarifies things.

6 Q: So you still have that matter to divide?

7 A: Yes, that's the only piece of paperwork between the

8 two of us.

9 Q: Okay. You never did purchase any other real estate

10 to place in the LLC correct?

11 A: No, ma'am.

12 Q: Did you look at real estate to place in the LLC?

13 A: We would Google search some things here and there.

14 Q: Okay. Sir, at the time we spoke in December you

15 indicated that you had a distant relationship with Houston's

16 father.

17 A: Yes, ma'am.

18 Q: How would you describe your relationship today, sir?

19 A: Much better.

20 Q: Why is that?

21 A: He now feels free to reach out to me because he's

22 not being controlled by Ms. Driscoll.

23 Q: Okay. And is it safe to say that in the past Mr.

24 Hermanstorfer didn't even want you around at the exchanges for


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1 Houston?

2 A: That's safe to say, uh-huh.

3 Q: Okay. Let's look at your testimony from yesterday.

4 MS. MCNEICE: Excuse me, Your Honor. I just

5 want to brief--

6 THE COURT: No problem, take your time.

7 Q: You testified that when you first met Ms. Driscoll

8 you had an opportunity to tour Fort Bragg.

9 A: Yes, rna' am.

10 Q: Was that during 2011 if you recall?

11 A: I believe so. 2010, 2011.

12 Q: And in fact you used the expression red carpet, what

13 did that mean to you?

14 A: What that meant to me was since I brought autograph

15 cards with me, which would be NASCAR pictures that I handed

16 out to the different service members when I was there, that

17 they took me to special areas that civilians wouldn't normally

18 see on a standard tour.

19 Q: Okay.

20 A: And so it was nice to be able to see nice--back

21 behind the scenes items and the machinery, even went into the

22 mechanics shop where they work on a lot of the vehicles. And

23 I got to shake hands with the service members that were

24 turning wrenches on vehicles.


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1 Q: Okay.

2 THE COURT: Sir, was Ms. Driscoll with you on

3 that tour?

4 A: Yes, Your Honor.

5 THE COURT: And had she arranged it or it had

6 been arranged by someone else?

7 A: It had been arranged by her as well as another

8 friend of mine.

9 THE COURT: Okay thank you. You may continue.


11 Q: Do you recall the rank of the individual that gave

12 you this tour?

13 A: I do not.

14 Q: Did you ever have an opportunity to tour any other

15 military installations?

16 A: Yes, ma'am.

17 Q: Where?

18 A: Oh wow. Dozens.

19 Q: With Ms. Driscoll?

20 A: On most occasions.

21 Q: Mm-hmm.

22 A: I've done work with the Paralyzed Veterans of

23 America, I've done work with Operation Home Front, I've done

24 work with the USO, Wounded Warriors--so it was very fulfilling


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1 to meet military families and members that needed to let

2 somebody know that we cared about them.

3 Q: Okay. And were these also set up by Ms. Driscoll?

4 A: The majority of them were but some of those other

5 foundations did work with them.

6 Q: That was part of your work with the Armed Forces

7 Foundation?

8 A: That was part of my work with the military.

9 Q: Okay. Now getting back to the matter of Mark Dycio,

10 did you ever offer to fly up to talk to him about resolving

11 some of these matters?

12 A: Yeah I offered to come and meet him down in

13 Virginia.

14 Q: At his office in Virginia?

15 A: Whether it was his office or a spot for lunch.

16 Q: Okay. What did you hope to accomplish at that

17 meeting?

18 A: Just an understanding on where Patricia thought the

19 relationship was and what he could do for the situation.

20 Q: But then you changed your mind and did not come for

21 that meeting, sir, is that right?

22 A: Yes I did change my mind.

23 Q: Okay. Sir, during the week prior to the incident in

24 Dover, you indicated that you stayed with a friend in the


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1 Boston area.

2 A: Yes, ma'am.

3 Q: But you again did appear later in the week, I

4 believe it was-Thursday, for an interview on television.

5 A: Yes, ma'am.

6 Q: Was this the interview that you worked with the

7 gentleman on the Weather Channel?

8 A: Yes, ma'am.

9 Q: Okay. And at that time did you have an opportunity

10 to see the vehicle that you had been driving in the New

11 Hampshire area and drove to the Boston airport?

12 A: No, ma'am.

13 Q: Okay. Did you speak with Ms. Driscoll's assistant

14 Matthew Ballard?

15 A: Yes.

16 Q: Okay. Did you offer him a job at that time?

17 A: Absolutely not.

18 Q: Have you ever offered him a job?

19 A: Absolutely not.

20 Q: Okay. Did you know a lot of her assistants at the

21 Armed Forces Foundation?

22 A: I knew the employees. There were a lot of interns

23 that came in and out but I didn't know their names. But I

24 knew most of her employees.


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1 Q: And were you ever at her office at the Armed Forces

2 Foundation?

3 A: Yes, ma'am.

4 Q: .How many times?

5 A: Too many to name or to number. It was like a frat

6 house down there. All her boys worked really hard and did a

7 lot for our service members and those were the only friends

8 that she would allow me to have.

9 Q: You had friends at the racetrack correct?

10 A: Yes, ma'am.

11 Q: Okay. Did you ever call yourself a sort of

12 unofficial vice president of the Armed Forces Foundation?

13 A: In sarcastic tones, yeah sure.

14 Q: Okay. So you would joke with the individuals at

15 the--

16 A: At the foundation.

17 Q: at the foundation, sir?

18 A: Yes, ma'am.

19 Q: Were you satisfied with your performance at the Al

20 Roker Weather Channel interview?·

21

22

23

24

A: I was.

Q: Good. Okay.

THE COURT: So just for clarification purposes

was Mr. Ballard at the Weather Channel interview?


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2 THE COURT: Thank you.

3 Q: Are you aware that your contact Mario Andretti

4 offered Mr. Ballard a job?

5 A: No I'm not aware.

6 Q: I think I'm just about done, sir. Returning to your

7 comments about the ADT, this is the security system at your

8 home correct?

9 A: Yes, ma'am.

10 Q: Okay. And it controls a gate of some sort or an

11 entrance area?

12 A: There's a code that you type in to enter the home.

13 There's also an online entry where you can go and check the

14 movement in the home and the doors that have opened.

15 Q: Okay. Did you give Ms. Driscoll the pass code or

16 the tools to use that ADT device?

17 A: She helped the ADT service member set it up.

18 Q: When was that, sir?

19 A: I don't remember the date.

20 Q: Did you build that home?

21 A: Purchased it.

22 Q: You purchased it. Did you have some repairs done to

23 the home afterwards?

24 A: When we purchased it there was the bullnose edging


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1 around the windows that was all beginning to peel back due to

2 poor glue. And so we wanted to repaint the family room area

3 at the same time. So we fixed all the bullnose edging,

4 sheetrock repair to that edge and then repainted.

5 Q: Are there actually cameras in the home?

6 A: There are now.

7 Q: There are now. But there weren't at the time of

8 this incident or the week before this incident?

9 A: No, ma'am.

10 Q: Okay.

11 MS. MCNEICE: Okay. I believe that's all for

12 right now, thank you.

13 THE COURT: Mr. Hardin, do you have any

14 redirect?

15 REDIRECT EXAMINATION

16 BY MR. RUSTY HARDIN

17 Q: She asked you about Detective Wood when you had the

18 interview. And do you recall demonstrating for Detective

19 Wood, some of what we did for the Judge, as to how the

20 encounter occurred?

21 A: Yes, sir.

22 Q: And in that interview did you mention to him that it

23 is possible when you cupped your hands that you may have moved

24 her head back and hit the wall?


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1 A: Yes, it's possible.

2 Q: Do you know one way or the other whether she did or

3 not?

4 A: I don't.

5 Q: Okay. But is that still your testimony?

6 A: Yes, sir.

7 Q: Okay.

8 MR. HARDIN: That's all I have.

9 THE COURT: So I have just a few questions for

10 you because I'm a little curious about some things that

11 were testified to yesterday and I'll certainly give

12 counsel an opportunity to ask questions after the Court

13 does.

14 JUDICIAL EXAMINATION

15 BY HONORABLE DAVID JONES

16 Q: The Court's heard testimony so far that you lived

17 with Ms. Driscoll sort of between each other's residences for

18 an extended period of time and spent a great deal of time with

19 each other. And you testified yesterday that at the beginning

20 of your relationship Ms. Driscoll indicated to you that she

21 was a mercenary and had done sort of covert operations for

22 either governments or other entities. And that you believed

23 her then and you believe her now. Were there things that

24 happened during your relationship that supported your belief?


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REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY R. HARDIN 39

1 Or things that you observed during your relationship that

2 supported your belief that Ms. Driscoll was indeed sort of a

3 covert mercenary?


5 Q: Okay. And can you explain to the Court what some of

6 those things were?

7 A: She had to do re-certifications for her shooting

8 guns every January or so. There were random trips to the FARM

9 which is the CIA headquarters. At one point when we had a

10 discussion about her trips that she would take to the border

11 or wherever she would go, I thought that there were around a

12 dozen times that she was out in action and she said no, it's

13 more towards 40.

14 Q: Okay.

15 A: And I had a hard time believing that number. And

16 that's when things began to seem fishy to me but there were so

17 many occasions where she'd come back with bumps and bruises

18 and scrapes. There was one where I went to El Paso, Texas

19 with her and her family lives there. So I had dinner with mom

20 and dad, her mom and dad, and I stayed in a hotel room. And

21 she left with her gear on one night and came back with a

22 trench coat that she did not leave with, covering the evening

23 gown that she came back in that was covered with blood and

24 matter. It gave me every reason to believe that this was an


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JUDICIAL EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY HON. JONES 40

1 operative that worked in the underground of the military.

2 Q: Okay. And you said when she left with gear on, what

3 kind of gear, sir?

4 A: Camo pants, boots, camo jacket, looking like a

5 Pocket Commando in that video.

6 Q: Okay. So there were things that happened at various

7 times throughout the relationship that caused you to believe

8 that representation?


10 Q: Thank you.

11 THE COURT: If either counsel have questions

12 based upon the Court's questions, you may certainly ask

13 them.

14 MR. HARDIN: Thank you, Judge.

15 RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION


17 Q: I believe you said you first met her in September

18 '10, so to follow up from the Judge's questions. Did those

19 kinds of events you're talking about occur throughout the

20 relationship?

21 A: Yes, sir.

22 Q: When we move into the year 2014, were there

23 incidents that made you feel that--be convinced that she was

24 telling you the truth about this?


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JUDICIAL EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY HON. JONES 41

1 A: There were incidents that still defined my reasoning

2 for believing.

3 Q: Can you tell the Court with what those would have

4 been as ':.~J?:ecent.ly .as 2014?

5 A: Well the most recent that was brought up was her

6 trip to the border by Michael Domcheff, my motor coach driver

7 that was here, to testify and talking about how she came back

8 from the border and was walking very gingerly, very stiff. As

9 far as this years--

10 Q: No, were aware--now he testified to that, were you

11 aware of that incident at the time it happened?

12 A: Yes, sir.

13 Q: Did I misunderstand her questions to you earlier,

14 did you indicate that you wouldn't know when she went? Help

15 me out there, do you recall when--Ms. Driscoll's lawyer was

16 asking you questions, did you mean to imply that you were not

17 aware that that even happened or what? Do you understand what

18 I'm asking?

19 A: Not quite.

20 Q: All right. Do you recall this morning there was

21 this questioning from her lawyer concerning her going to--Mr.

22 Domcheff's testimony about her going to the border and whether

23 you went with her.

24 A: Okay.


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RE-REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY R. HARDIN 42

1 Q: Is that the incident that you're talking about now?

2 A: That's one that I knew that she was going on--

3 Q: [interposing] But you did not go with her?

4 A: -- but Ms. McNeice said that both of us were there

5 and I was not.

6 Q: All right. But you were aware of the event?

7 A: Yes, sir.

8 Q: All right. And what were you aware of?

9 A: That she had a mission.

10 Q: How did you become aware of it? I mean did she tell

11 you before or after or what?

12 A: She told me before.

13 Q: This was during what race weekend for you?

14 A: For me the race weekend was leading into Loudon, New

15 Hampshire. And when she would schedule her missions it was

16 always around her custody calendar that she had to share with

17 her ex-husband.

18 Q: All right tell the Court about that?

19 A: About the custody calendar?

20 Q: Well what you mean--yeah the way they would be

21 scheduled and then this particular event to the border.

22 A: There was always back and forth on their custody

23 calendar on who would have Houston's custody when. And she

24 would position it around her work days. Her work days could


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1 include the Armed Forces Foundation events, it could include

2 Front Line Defense Systems and then it also could include

3 these trips, these military trips that she would take.

4 Q: Now what would she tell you about these trips?

5 A: That she was going to kill somebody or have the

6 opportunity to go on a mission to work with these individuals

7 in a certain capacity to help with drug trafficking primarily.

8 Q: Well you knew you had friends that didn't believe

9 this right?

10 A: Yes, sir.

11 Q: Okay. So tell the Court why in spite of others

12 telling you it couldn't be true you continue to believe this.

13 A: I believed it because I lived it and saw it and I

14 lived with her. There would be bumps and bruises that she

15 would come back with. Scrapes when she would tell me she slid

16 down a hillside running to either catch or run away from some

17 illegal immigrant or illegal. And I lived it. So everybody

18 on the outside can tell me that I'm crazy but I lived on the

19 inside and saw it firsthand.

20 Q: Did she describe her ability in these encounters

21 when she would go and what she would do?

22 A: Yeah, she described her ability as a mercenary to

23 kill people at close contact, whether it was with knives,

24 pistols or with poison.


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1 Q: And you heard briefly the questions I had earlier

2 about the scar and you testified about that. Did these kinds

3 of conversations and events occur throughout your relationship

4 or was it just at the beginning?

5 A: All the way through.

6 Q: And then going specifically to the most recent event

7 before your breakup. That would have been--she would have

8 returned about--that event you described about a week and a

9 half or so before the New Hampshire race? Or a week before


11 A: It would have been the same weekend. She arrived--

12 if the 21st was a Sunday, she would have arrived on the 19th,

13 Friday.

14 Q: Okay. And she would have had--and so the event

15 would have occurred before that?

16 A: Yeah. On the 18th, 17th, 16th--

17 Q: [interposing] Somewhere in there.

18 A: Somewhere in there.

19 Q: So the week before the New Hampshire race did she

20 tell you what she had gone to do down on the border?

21 A: No, sir.

22 Q: Did she tell you beforehand that she was going?

23 A: It might have been on the calendar, I don't know--a

24 lot of times when I would read on the calendar she was going


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1 on these missions so I would just--in one ear, out the other.

2 Q: But when you say on the calendar what would be on

3 there?

4 A: Work trip.

5 Q: That's all it would say?

6 A: Mm-hmm.

7 Q: All right. So work trip could mean any one of the

8 three things you mentioned to the Judge a minute ago?

9 A: Normally the AFF stuff was listed, Front Line

10 Defense Systems stuff was listed. Anytime it was the secret

11 programs it just said work trip because my assistant Christy

12 has an open calendar and she wouldn't want to expose the

13 certain work items to a third party.

14 Q: Okay. So if she was going out of town on one of

15 these missions that you believed she was on, she would

16 indicate that on the calendar frequently just as a work trip?

17 A: Yes.

18 Q: But it would never say what it was?

19 A: It wouldn't say what it was. And not all of them

20 were listed.

21 Q: If you had to go through the number of times, did

22 she ever talk to you about any hand to hand combat situations

23 or so?

24 A: She did.


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1 Q: What did she say?

2 A: That there were situations that went wrong. That

3 there was a member of the team that wasn't in position or

4 messed up in his job and things went crazy. That they all

5 jumped in a car to try to evacuate. And one of the guys was

6 hurt so much so that he was bleeding and that they had to call

7 and audible to help with his health. And--I mean there were

8 all kinds of details and stories. And times when she got

9 pistol whipped and came back with--one time all kinds of

10 bruises on her face. And I said it's not wise for you to go

11 out this weekend and be seen.

12 Q: Can you put a year or a month on those kinds of

13 events? Or this particular one you just described?

14 A: On that particular one I want to say 2013. It was

15 when I was ~ith the Furniture Row Racing.

16 Q: Did she ever say these kinds of things around other

17 people in your presence?

18 A: Not very often or none at all.

19 Q: Did she ever show you any pictures that she

20 contended showed her undercover work?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

Yes, sir.

What did she show you?

Early on it was the illegals that she killed.

She said she killed them?


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1 A: Yes, sir.

2 Q: What was the picture, what did it show?

3 A: It showed a headshot to an individual that was shot

4 from lon-g·-.range:~· ·

5 Q: And did she--what did she say? How did she say this

6 person was killed.

7 A: She said I did that.

8 Q: Did you ask her questions about it?

9 A: I said what rifle did you use.

10 Q: And what did she say?

11 A: She said it was a long range sniper rifle with an

12 excellent scope. I don't know what type of gun the military

13 issues at that level.

14 Q: You really believed that she was working with the

15 Army or the government doing this didn't you?

16 A: From what I've seen in the different areas and

17 capacities that I've toured with her and the way she spoke,

18 and the times she came back from missions, absolutely.

19 Q:

20 correct?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

And even today you still believe it. Is that

Sorry I'm the last one to the party. Yes, sir.

Pardon me?

Yes, sir.

All right. And, urn, when all of this was going on,


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1 in the evening of the 26th, she ask you about alcohol or she

2 asked you about prescription drugs or anything, had you had

3 any of that on the Friday of September the 26th?

4 A:-·- · No., sir.

5 Q: And when you had this encounter in the bedroom, what

6 was your state of mind had been if you had tried to physically

7 hurt her, what did you think would happen?

8 A: Frankly?

9 Q: Yeah.

10 A: That I would have got my ass handed to me.

11 MR. HARDIN: That's all I have.

12 THE COURT: Ms. McNeice?

13 MR. HARDIN: Oh I'm sorry. May I have just one

14 moment, Your Honor?

15 THE COURT: Sure.

16 MR. HARDIN:

17 THE COURT: All right. Ms. McNeice?


19 RECROSS EXAMINATION


21 Q: Mr. Busch, to the best of your knowledge does Ms.

22 Driscoll have security clearances?

23 A:

24 Q:

Yes, ma'am.

She does?


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1 A: Yes, ma'am.

2 Q: How about Mr. Hermanstorfer, does he also have

3 security clearances?

4 A: I believe so.

5 Q: Okay. All right you indicated that you continued to

6 believe her comments about various work trips because you

7 lived it on the inside. Can you tell us here today any dates

8 or locations where these work trips might have occurred?

9 A: There's so many dates and work trips that occurred.

10 The majority of them were to south of the border.

11 Q: South of the border?

12 A: South of the Mexican border. And the way that most

13 of the trips started to end up towards the latter part of our

14 relationship coincided with race weekends in the South, such

15 as Texas, Phoenix, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, quick easy places

16 to commute from to get to the southwest border.

17 Q: Okay. So that she would be back to participate--

18 A: [interposing] On race weekends.

19 Q: -- at that race weekends with you?

20 A: Absolutely.

21 Q: Okay. Or to do her Armed Forces Foundation work?

22 A: Yes, ma'am.

23 Q: Okay. Is it possible, sir, that the expression work

24 trip was listed for the benefit of her child's father so that


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RECROSS EXAMINATION OF K. BUSCH BY C. MCNEICE 50

1 he also would have this calendar?

2 A: Yes, Geoff had the calendar.

3 Q: So the expression was also--he was advised of these

4 work trips as well as trips .to the various racing locations.

5 A: He would be advised on the work trip and with the

6 code that I saw on the calendar as well on many occasions, she

7 would try to manipulate the calendar in a fashion to where

8 Geoff wouldn't necessarily know where she was.

9 Q: Okay. You mentioned the calendar your attorney

10 asked you about the calendar prior to the New Hampshire event.

11 Now that race if I recall was on Sunday and I think we decided

12 that was Sunday September 21st, 2014?

13 A: Yes, ma'am.

14 Q: Okay. So do you recall on September 16th flying to

15 Charlotte from BWI?

16 A: I don't recall. It sounds correct.

17 Q: Okay. Do you recall being at her home in Ellicott

18 City on September 17th?

19 A: I don't recall.

20 Q: Is this the day you were taking some golf shots that

21 are posted on Facebook, sir?

22 A: Oh it could be that time.

23 Q: Okay. Do you recall staying in her home in Ellicott

24 City on September 18th?


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1 A: It's sounds correct because we would travel up the

2 Eastern Seaboard. I see what you've got here so I wouldn't

3 understand the schedule that week.

4 Q: Okay. Would you agree--

5 A: [interposing] And Domcheff said that she came back

6 from the border during his testimony so that's what I was

7 going off of.

8 Q: Okay. But in fact it looks like that's not true

9 correct?

10 A: Most of what Domcheff had to say wasn't all that

11 accurate. Poor guy.

12 Q: Would you agree with me that on September 18th you

13 left at about 10:00 p.m. from BWI to fly to Manchester, New

14 Hampshire?

15 A: Sure.

16 Q: Okay.

17 A: Yes.

18 Q: All right. And that would have been the Thursday

19 before to get ready for the race weekend correct?

20 A:

21 Q:

22 correct?

23 A:

24 Q:

Yes, ma'am.

Okay. And then you were in Manchester on the 19th,

It all sounds exactly right.

Do you recall that Patricia had a matter in the


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1 Court in Howard County with regard to custody of her son that

2 day?


4 Q :; -,_ ._. Okay.

5 A: This whole week seems like it's misconstrued because

6 Domcheff said that she came back from the border. So that's

7 all that I was alluding to.

8 Q: Okay. But now you've decided that that was not a

9 correct statement.

10 A: I have no idea what this calendar was with exact

11 moments on which day was which other than the 19th was a

12 Friday and that is Loudon, New Hampshire race weekend.

13 Q: Okay. So you were in New Hampshire that weekend,

14 you know that?

15 A: Yes, ma'am.

16 Q: Okay. I believe that Mr. Domcheff did testify

17 however that he picked her up at the airport on Friday.

18 A: That sounds correct.

19 Q: And she was with you for any Friday evening events

20 and the Saturday? Pre-race--

21 A:

22 Q:

23

24

[interposing] Yes, ma'am.

Okay.

MS. MCNEICE: Thank you, nothing further.

THE COURT: Okay. Anything else of this


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1 witness?

2 MR. HARDIN: I don't believe I do, Your Honor.

3 THE COURT: Thank you, Mr. Busch. You may

4 resume your seat next to your counsel. Mr. Hardin?

5 MR. HARDIN: Your Honor, we call Mr. Sniffen.

6 THE COURT: Okay. First name?

7 MR. HARDIN: Richard Andrew Sniffen.

8 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you.

9 THE CLERK: Left hand on the Bible, raise your

10 right. State your name for me.

11 MR. RICHARD SNIFFEN: Richard Andrew Sniffen.

12 THE CLERK: Do you swear to tell the truth, the

13 whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

14 MR. SNIFFEN: I do.

15 THE CLERK: Please spell your last name for the

16 record.

17 MR. SNIFFEN: S as in Sam, N as in Nancy, I, F

18 as in Frank, F as in Frank, E as in Edward, N as in

19 Nancy.

20 R I C H A R D S N I F F E N, having been first

21 duly sworn, testified as follows:

22 DIRECT EXAMINATION


24 Q: Good morning.


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1 A: Good morning.

2 Q: Mr. Sniffen, your name has been going back and

3 forth. Could you help us so the Court and all them know as

4 referred. Your full name again is what?

5 A: Richard Andrew Sniffen.

6 Q: And most of the people in your profession or social

7 life do they call you Richard Andrew instead of using the last

8 name Sniffen?

9 A: Yes they do.

10 Q: Why is that?

11 A: That's because when I started to travel and minister

12 as a singer and a song writer, the last name was kind of

13 difficult for people. So we went with my middle name, it

14 seemed easier.

15 Q: Okay. So in this proceeding any time somebody might

16 have said Richard Andrew they would be talking about you even

17 though your last name is Sniffen?

18 A:

19 Q:

20 A:

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Yes that's correct.

All right, sir. How old a man are you?

I am 44 years old.

Are you married?

I am.

And do you have children?

I do.


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DIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 55

1 Q: How many.

2 A: I have two biological children and three step-

3 children, so five kids.

4 Q: And what is your present profession?

5 A: I am a music minister. I lead worship at my home

6 church and I also travel singing and presently doing the work

7 of an evangelist as well.

8 Q: Where is your home church?

9 A: In Rancho Cucamonga, California. The River's Edge.

10 Q: Now that's not the way you started out is it?

11 A: No it's not.

12 Q: All right. Would you give the Court in your own

13 words just sort of the benefit of the road that got you to

14 where you are.

15 A: Well I was born and raised in a middle class home.

16 Good parents, good family, good home.

17 Q: Where?

18 A: In West Covina, California.

19 Q: Okay.

20 A: And at the age of 14 I made a really bad decision.

21 I ran away from home and at that time I got tied up and

22 involved in pretty much every ugly thing they warn you about

23 as a young person. I was obviously a runaway, I dropped out

24 of high school, I started using drugs, became a drug addict, a


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1 drug dealer. I was homeless for a period of time. Before I

2 was 18 I was a teen father expecting my second daughter.

3 Q: I'm going to stop you.

4 A: Yes.

5 Q: When you mentioned children, two biological

6 children, are those the biological children you're talking

7 about?

8 A: That's correct, yes.

9 Q: And they were both conceived before you were 18?


11 Q: Go ahead.

12 A: And eventually I started getting arrested for

13 possession, possession with the intent to sell and ultimately

14 after being incarcerated for 60 days, 90 days, 1 year in the

15 county jail, the Judge said if I see you in my courtroom again

16 I'm going to send you to state prison. And I was a drug

17 addict. And she saw me again and she kept her word and sent

18 me to state prison for four years.

19 Q:

20 A:

21 Q:

22 right?

23 A:

24 Q:

And what year did you get out?

I would have been released on January 8th of 1994.

So you have that felony conviction in California

Correct.

And I'm not asking you things that you don't talk


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1 about yourself am I?

2 A: No. I'm actually proactive in sharing this.

3 Q: All right. How old were you when you got out of

4 prison.

5 A: I was 23 when I got out.

6 Q: What did you do then?

7 A: As a condition of my parole I had to be in 12 step

8 group so--

9 Q: [interposing] Did anything happen to you while you

10 were in prison that changed your life?

11 A: Yeah. I actually had an encounter in the prison

12 chapel and what I believe to be supernatural in nature. And I

13 dedicated my life to Christ at that time. I really wasn't

14 sure what that meant. And a few months later I was released

15 from prison and a condition of the parole was to be in a 12

16 step, so I found a local church and enrolled in their 12 step.

17 And eventually I was not only there for their 12 step but I

18 was there for a Sunday morning service, Sunday night men's

19 fellowship, their single's group, their mid-week Bible study.

20 I was basically--if the doors were open, I was there. And it

21 was at that time that I came to really understand what took

22 place in the prison. That was kind of new for me so I wasn't

23 sure but as I began to grow in my faith and in my

24 understanding of God's word, I began to understand exactly


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1 what happened to me.

2 Q: So starting at age 24 did you try to reunite with

3 those children that had been born?

4 A: .;:GJh .absolutely. As a matter of fact I had done so

5 many terrible things to my parents, just abusing that

6 relationship with them, stealing from them and--everything

7 that they say that drug addicts do, I did all of those things.

8 But my parents even after all of that they were still good

9 enough to allow me to parole to their home. And the day I was

10 released from prison they had made arrangements for my

11 daughters to be there in their home so I was able to see them.

12 Q: How old are those kids now?

13 A: They are 24 and 22.

14 Q: And how did they turn out?

15 A: Amazing. I used to ask myself while I was in

16 prison, like, what a terrible hand they had been dealt to have

17 me as their father. But since then God has turned all of

18 those things around. They are both amazing. My youngest

19 daughter just graduated from a college, got her BA in Arts.

20 And she graduated Magna Cum Laude and I was lucky enough to be

21 in the room when she got that diploma. And God has literally

22 restored those relationships to such a degree that there is no

23 evidence whatsoever of the man that I used to be or the poor

24 excuse for a father that I used to be for those girls.


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1 Q: And somewhere along that you got married?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: How long ago?

4 A: .I~ve been--my wife and I just celebrated our 10 year

5 wedding anniversary.

6 Q: And she has three children from a previous marriage.

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: And you live now where?

9 A: In Chino Hills, California.

10 Q: Now how did you get to know either Kurt Busch or

11 Patricia Driscoll?

12 A: I was exposed to the NASCAR community in general--

13 Q: [interposing] Actually let me stop you there.

14 A: Okay.

15 Q: No, it's my fault. Maybe it's good to put this in

16 context.

17 A: Okay.

18 Q: You talked about music did you not?

19 A: Yes.

20 Q: Tell me what your music is, what you do and so--

21 A: I basically am a worship leader. So that basically

22 translates into the music that is shared in the church

23 service. And over the course of time I began to write my own

24 music versus playing music that maybe other people have


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1 written. And began to share that music in that same context,

2 sharing it in worship services. And that's a portion of what

3 I do today traveling.

4 Q: So when you--do you tour? I mean do you go around

5 to different churches?

6 A: I haven't been on any lengthy tours like I'm sure

7 when people hear the word tour they think that someone is out

8 on the road for 40 weeks or whatever it is. That's definitely

9 not me. I think that's partially because I'm really lazy.

10 But I do travel, maybe go somewhere for a week or two or a

11 weekend and then go back home.

12 Q: Have you actually done any performance and

13 appearances for Ms. Driscoll's Armed Forces Foundation?

14 A: I have.

15 Q: All right. So then let's go to how you meet the two

16 of them.

17 A: I meet the two of them--I'm exposed to their

18 community as a worship leader for the chapel services that

19 serve the racing community--the NASCAR community.

20 Q: When did you first get involved in appearing and

21 being involved with any in the racing community?

22

23

24

A: This would be my fifth year doing it. So--

THE COURT: So is that the Motor Racing

Outreach Group?


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3 Q: Yes, if you would explain what kind of connection if

4 any you have with them.

5 A: Yeah I am actually not a member of Motor Racing

6 Outreach. I am basically asked to come as a guest and provide

7 the music for a handful of their chapel services that they're

8 doing.

9 Q: Okay. So periodically you'll appear at their chapel

10 services.

11 A: Correct.

12 Q: So you know Mr. Nick Terry do you?

13 A: I do.

14 Q: How long have you known him?

15 A: For the duration--well I take that back. Nick was

16 not the Chaplin at the time that I had started. He had

17 actually come in later. So I guess I've known Nick for three

18 years.

19 Q: Okay.

20 A: That's my estimate.

21 Q: And then let's go down to my original question. How

22 did you meet either Ms. Driscoll or Mr. Busch?

23 A: I received a phone call from Nick Terry. He had

24 told me that he had an opportunity to have a conversation with


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1 Ms. Driscoll and in the course of that conversation it had

2 come up that Mr. Busch had made some sort of a comment about

3 either my music or my ministry and whatever that comment was

4 it led her to believe that maybe I would be someone he would

5 welcome some sort of a relationship or a friendship with. So

6 Nick was calling me to let me know that they wanted to know if

7 I would be willing to meet with them and I said yes.

8 Q: So when would you estimate--and when you first met

9 with them did you meet with both of them together? If you

10 remember.

11 A: I don't actually remember. I would guess yes that

12 would have been the case.

13 Q: And how long ago would have been?

14 A: Three years ago maybe or less.

15 Q: Okay. Now where did you meet with them?

16 A: I was first introduced to them very, very briefly at

17 a racetrack, at a NASCAR race.

18 Q: Do you recall what state--what's the occasion?

19 A: I believe that it was Phoenix.

20 Q: All right. And then as time went on did you see or

21 visit with one of them more than the other?

22 A: Did I visit with--?

23 Q: Or with one of them. As time went on--in a

24 subsequent later time, after that initial meeting. Just track


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1 for us your relationship with him if you can.

2

3 A: After that initial meeting we had met again to have

4 dinner ·W"ith:':th:em1 .. actually my wife and I-- or they in vi ted my

5 wife and I both to have dinner with them. And it was a race

6 weekend. And actually that was in Phoenix. So that would

7 mean that our initial meeting was not in Phoenix. Because we

8 had that kind of like a dinner date, we joined them for

9 dinner. And that's when we kind of got to know each other a

10 little better.

11 Q: All right. Then after that how would your

12 relationship develop?

13 A: My actual times at the racetrack are very limited.

14 Unlike MRO who are there every weekend, I'm only there a

15 handful of weekends per year. And that's my only opportunity

16 to see them face to face. So I would say that the

17 relationships kind of unfolded from there maybe via text or

18 telephone calls mainly.

19 Q: And would you be in contact with one of them more

20 than the other?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

I would say yes.

And who would that be?

Patricia.

How much--over those three years how much contact


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1 did you have with Mr. Busch himself?

2 A: How would we measure that? Using what measuring?

3 Q: That's a good question. Each year would--if you had

4 to sort ·~'ef-.;gaess. how much contact you've had with him each

5 year, if we say that 2014 just concluded so we go back if you

6 say three years--2011--or would it be '12, '13, '14? What

7 years would it be that you've known him?

8 A: So this is '15, so it would be '14, '13, maybe '12.

9 I'm really not exactly sure when we first met.

10 Q: Okay. But during that period of time--let's say on

11 a monthly basis, how much contact would you have with each

12 one?

13 A: Well it's probably better to look at it maybe over

14 the course of a year.

15 Q: That's fine.

16 A: Because I average between--I average 10 races per

17 year, although last year I only did 5. So for sure I'm going

18 to see him, both of them, at these races.

19 Q: All right.

20 A: Now the last two years I also performed at the Armed

21 Forces Foundation Gala which I saw them both at those events.

22 Outside of that, the track and those events, any communication

23 we have is just phone call or text messaging.

24 Q: All right. And let's do that. So you've talked


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1 about the personal encounters you would have. Were those

2 always to the best of your memory where they were together

3 when you had personal encounters?

4 A: Yes, a majority of the time yes.

5 Q: All right. And then would you have individual

6 encounters with either one of them through text or phone?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: Which one would you have the most of that type of

9 contact?

10 A: Patricia.

11 Q: And how often would you hear from Kurt Busch on an

12 annual basis by either phone or text?

13 A: Phone or text message I would say that I tried to

14 send Mr. Busch a text message at least once a week just to try

15 to send him just a random encouraging word. And in those

16 instances he would respond. So I guess maybe four or five

17 times a month.

18 Q: And would those usually be in response to you

19 initiating or vice versa?

20 A:

21 them.

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

A majority of the time it would be me initiating

And he would respond?

Correct.

Now how about Ms. Driscoll?


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1 A: The same thing. I would send her as well random

2 text messages with some sort of an encouraging word.

3 Q: And would she respond to those?

4 A: Yes.

5 Q: And then what about whether or not she would

6 sometimes initiate contact with you?

7 A: She would, yes.

8 Q: How often would that happen?

9 A: Um--

10 Q: Let's just do the last couple of years. Let's do

11 '13 and '14.

12 A: The last couple of years quite a bit. I mean there

13 had been quite a bit--several of those instances.

14 Q: Can you talk about how often if you did it on a

15 monthly basis.

16 A: Just completely guessing I would say maybe two or

17 three times a month.

18 Q: Okay. Now did you receive a phone call from her on

19 September the 26th which she relayed to you an encounter with

20 Mr. Busch in his mobile home?

21 A: To tell you the truth I have no idea what these

22 dates are. Do you know what I mean? The actual specific

23 dates--

24 [crosstalk]


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1 Q: All right. Let's do it this way. Do you recall

2 having conversations with her concerning an incident with a

3 car after a race in New Hampshire?

4 A: Yes.

5 Q: All right. And if I tell you that everybody here

6 will agree that race and the car incident was September the

7 21st, a Sunday, will that help you put what happens from now

8 on in context.

9 A: Yes.

10 Q: Okay. How was it that she contacted you and when

11 did she contact you about an incident in the car?

12 A: She would have contacted by telephone. And did you

13 ask me the time because I don't know the time?

14 Q: No I didn't.

15 A: Okay.

16 Q: Sometime that day?

17 A: Yes.

18 Q: And what did she tell you?

19 A: Basically that they had had an argument and--they

20 had an argument, you know, and everything that kind of goes

21 with someone who is sharing with you that, you know, we've had

22 an argument.

23 Q: Did she suggest that he had done anything to

24 physically hurt her?


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1 A: That he had done something to hurt her?

2 Q: Yeah. I'm asking--

3 A: No.

4 Q: Did she say he had done anything to threaten her?

5 A: No.

6 Q: Did she say she had suffered any kind of physical

7 harm or incident?

8 A: Her personally?

9 Q: Yes.

10 A: No.

11 Q: The best that you can remember, what did she tell

12 you that happened?

13 A: She had said that there was an argument and that the

14 car had actually been what had suffered damage. That the

15 rearview mirror I believe had been pulled down.

16 Q: By Mr. Busch?

17 A: Correct.

18 Q: Okay.

19 A: And then anything else that she shared was just

20 about an argument, just two people--

21 THE COURT: Do you not recall specifically what

22 it was, sir?

23 A: That he had suffered some sort of--the race didn't

24 go his way. So something had happened technically or


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1 professionally as far as that race goes. And that because of

2 it he was very angry and they were arguing and fighting. I

3 actually could not tell you--

4 Q: When you say fighting, I always want to know what

5 you mean by fighting.

6 A: Arguing verbally.

7 Q: Okay. Go ahead.

8 A: But I could not tell you what specifically what she

9 said was the contents of the argument. I don't know.

10 THE COURT: That's fine.

11 A: Okay.

12 THE COURT: We're only interested in what you

13 remember, sir.

14 A: Okay.

15 Q: All right. So how would you describe--let me

16 rephrase that. What did she tell you that her reaction was to

17 all this? What did she want out of it? What was her concern.

18 A: She was upset. She was--two lovers had been in an

19 argument and she was angry and upset over what happened. You

20 know a lot of the words were coming from a broken heart I

21 believe.

22 Q: All right. And during this period of time, at that

23 stage if somebody had asked you whether you were friends were

24 Kurt Busch and Patricia Driscoll what would you say?


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1 A: I would answer yes.

2 Q: All right. Would you have said you were friends

3 with both of them?

5 Q: Would you have said you were friends equally with

6 both of them?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: Explain to the Court when you would be talking to

9 them about different issues or so, what posture do you take

10 when you're sort of counseling somebody like that in a

11 religious atmosphere?

12 A: Well the posture I take is that of someone who wants

13 to encourage and uplift and not judge or not tear down. So

14 it's not for me to judge. Whatever the come and bring to the

15 table it's for me to try to encourage and get them past that

16 moment, especially if emotions are high and things like that.

17 Q: Do you even try to determine one way or the other

18 whether what the person is telling you is accurate?

19 A: Absolutely not. It's mine to assume that what they

20 are saying is truthful. And even if it's not, it's truth to

21 them in that moment while they're sharing it. Sometimes

22 people can be unreasonable when emotions are high but to them

23 those are real authentic feelings and experiences. And it's

24 mine to simply say then that's what it is and let's deal with


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1 it, let's get you through it.

2 Q: Okay. And as we go through these conversations

3 we're about to have was that your approach throughout with Ms.

4 Driscoll?

5 A: I believe so.

6 Q: All right. Now would you estimate for the Court how

7 long this conversation that Sunday took?

8 A: This is the Sunday with the car?

9 Q: On the 21st from New Hampshire.

10 A: This is just a complete estimate or guess, maybe an

11 hour.

12 Q: An hour?

13 A: Maybe.

14 Q: Well what would she be saying during all that time

15 for an hour?

16 A: Just how upset she is.

17 Q: Well what was her concern? What did she want?

18 A: What she wanted was for there to be a peaceful,

19 giving authentic love relationship. What she wants is a

20 relationship.

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 all?

Did she express any fear of him during that call?

No.

Has she talked at all about being afraid of him at


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1 A: No.

2 Q: What did she tell ·you she wanted?

3 A: She wants there to be a peaceful relationship,

4 coexistence between the two of them. She wants there to be a

5 love relationship where two people are together sharing all

6 aspects of their lives together drama free without arguments

7 like this or incidents where someone is pulling a mirror off

8 of a car. That's what she wants.

9 Q: All right. And did she indicate that she wanted

10 reconciliation?

11 A: That's always the undertone. That's always the

12 underlying undertone is how do we get to this euphoric

13 relationship. So I would say yes.

14 Q: You mean that was always the undertone with her when

15 you were talking to her about--

16 A: I believe so, yeah.

17 Q: Okay.

18 A: I believe so.

19 Q: So in turn what was your approach when she was

20 talking about all this?

21 A: As always to try to calm the situation. Always.

22 Q: Then after that conversation with her about she and

23 Mr. Busch on the 21st, did you continue to hear from her?

24 A: I did.


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1 Q: Take us through that week before the incident we all

2 hear about. Did you hear from her again on that Sunday or

3 that Monday, what?

4 A: Because of the holes in my memory I could not say

5 exactly how those days unfolded. But I could speculate that I

6 heard from her at least every day that week.

7 Q: All right. Were you hearing from her by phone or by

8 text?

9 A: ·Both.

10 Q: And how often would she text you do you think?

11 A: I don't know. But a safe--

12 Q: [interposing] If you don't know--pardon me?

13 A: At least daily.

14 Q: All right. And was there a constant theme through

15 all your communications with her that week?

16 A: Yes.

17 Q: And what was that?

18 A: Reconciliation. Getting to the point of having a

19 relationship that is free, like I said, of these arguments,

20 these blowouts that she describes.

21 Q: Did she express to you at any time during that week

22 any fear of Mr. Busch?

23 A:

24 Q:

No.

Did she express to you any time during that week any


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1 physical concerns she might have about the way he would treat

2 her?

3 A: No.

4 Q: Had she ever in your counseling with her ever

5 suggested to you at any time that Mr. Busch had physically

6 ever either hit her or caused her any injury?

7 A: Prior to--?

8 Q: This incident.

9 A: No.

10 Q: During the time that you talked those two to three

11 years, had she ever reported to you any past history of

12 physical abuse by Mr. Busch?

13 A: No.

14 Q: Now in this particular week that we're speaking of,

15 realizing you don't remember dates, I think I can give you

16 another date that everybody agrees on. Friday the 26th, I

17 assume is the evening that she visited with her son and Mr.

18 Busch in his motorhome.

19 A: Okay.

20 Q: I think everybody can agree on that.

21 A: Okay.

22 Q: So between Sunday in New Hampshire, the hour long

23 phone call you're talking about, and Friday in his motorhome

24 in the evening, how much contact would you describe you had


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1 from Ms. Busch?

2 A: From Ms. Driscoll?

3 Q: Excuse me, from Ms. Driscoll.

4 A: , .i'.Ho:w ,;;:1llllch. contact did I have with her during the

5 course of that week?

6 Q: That's right. Either by text or phone?

7 A: Urn--

8 MS. MCNEICE: Objection. Asked and answer. He

9 said it was at least daily.

10 MR. HARDIN: I think that's correct.

11 THE COURT: It is.

12 Q: I guess daily. And then when you get multiple texts

13 in the same day or would you just get one text or one contact

14 that day or how would you describe it?

15 A: I would say that it was possible to hear from her

16 more than once in a specific day. Not necessarily every day

17 that week.

18 Q: All right.

19 A: But I would say that happened at least once or twice

20 that week--

21 Q: Okay.

22 A: hearing from her multiple times.

23 Q: So by the time you--did you receive a phone call

24 from her on the 26th, if I'm giving you the date and putting


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1 it into my question. Did you receive a phone call from her

2 that Friday night or Saturday morning--well Friday night as

3 she was leaving his--or after she had left his motorhome.

4 A: And this is the night of the--

5 Q: [interposing] Of the encounter.

6 A: Okay. Yes I did.

7 Q: And do you recall about what time you got that phone

8 call?

9 A: Maybe sometime between 8:00 or 10:00 p.m.--the

10 answer to your question no, I do not recall the exact time.

11 Q: All right fair enough. Do you recall where you were

12 or what you were doing when you got the call.

13 A: I was at my home watching TV with my wife.

14 Q: And what did she say when she called you?

15 A: She had said that she had gone to see him--first she

16 was crying when I answered the telephone so I knew that there

17 was something wrong. And I asked her what happened and she

18 said that she had gone to see him. And they got an argument

19 and a fight--

20 Q: [interposing] A fight? What did she, just the

21 words. All I want you to do is just remember what she said.

22 And then--

23 A: I would say she used the word argument and not

24 fight. That's probably my word.


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1 Q: All right. Well then try to remember if you can

2 what her words were.

3 A: Okay. So we got in an argument. And during the

4 course of that argument he pushed me and I hit my head.

5 Did she say where he pushed her--where she hit her Q:

6 head?

7 A: Like where on the body or--?

8 Q: What her head hit, did she say?

9 A: She might have, I don't really recall but she might

10 have.

11 Did she say anything about him slamming her against Q:

12 the wall and hitting her head three times?

13 A: Multiple times? No.

14 Q: Okay. She told you about he pushed her and she hit

15 her head.

16 A: Correct.

17 Q: And that's all she told you at that time happened?

18 A: Correct.

19 Q: And you're sure of that?

20 A: I'm absolutely sure.

21 Q: She never said anything about him slamming her

22 against the wall with her head three times?

23 A:

24 Q:

No.

You've never heard that?


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1 A: I have heard that.

2 Q: Where have you heard that?

3 A: In the media.

4 Q: Okay. Do you remember what your reaction was when

5 you saw that in the media?

6 A: My reaction was that that's not what I had heard.

7 Q: Okay. That's not what you were told.

8 A: Correct.

9 Q: Did she tell you that--she was having this

10 conversation with you, did she try to put it in context in

11 terms of a visit with Mr. Terry. Was this before or after she

12 said she had visited with Nick Terry?

13 A: This would have been after. She would have called

14 me after the visit to Mr. Terry.

15 Q: Okay. Did she tell you where she was on the way to

16 in the car?

17 A: I believe she said she was heading home.

18 Q: All right. Did she say anything about her son being

19 with her?

20 A: Yes.

21 Q: What did she say?

22 A: That he was with her.

23 Q: All right. Did she express any concern for him or

24 anything in that call?


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1 A: Yes, that she had made a comment about her disbelief

2 that he would do this with Houston in that immediate area or

3 in the--

4 Q: [interposing] Actually she didn't say anything about

5 Houston having seen anything did she?

6 A: No. I believe she said that they were in one room

7 and then Houston was in a separate room.

8 Q: Okay. Now, as we talk about this if you can try to

9 eliminate, keep out of your mind anything you may have read or

10 heard from others.

11 A: Okay.

12 Q: And deal only with what you remember that she was

13 telling you that night.

14 A: Yes.

15 Q: And so did she say what happened after he--she said

16 he pushed her and she hit her head? What did she say happened

17 after that?

18 A: That she left.

19 Q: Okay. Did she tell you where she went?

20 A: That she went to the MRO motor coach. The Motor

21 Racing Outreach motor coach.

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

Where Mr. Terry was.

Correct.

Okay. How long would you estimate this conversation


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1 that night took?

2 A: It was long. It was lengthy. I believe that--I

3 believe we only spoke while she was driving so I'm not exactly

4 sure whatc:~the .,:length of that drive was. But I would say the

5 majority of it to my understanding we were talking.

6 Q: So that would be from Dover back to Maryland where

7 she lived.

8 A: Yeah. If that's where she headed, yeah.

9 THE COURT: Did she arrive home, sir, during

10 the conversation with you?

11 A: No.

12 THE COURT: Okay.

13 Q: Let me ask you this. Did she in that conversation

14 express any fear of him?

15 A: I'm going to say that looking back on my memory of

16 what her exact words were, she did not say the words that

17 night I'm afraid of him. That statement was not made. The

18 words that she would have used were words like I can't believe

19 he's done this, I can't believe he's, you know, attacked me.

20 Those kind of things so--

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

[interposing] Did she say attacked?

-- definitely speaking--

Wait a second now.

Okay.


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1 Q: I just want to be sure.

2 A: Okay.

3 Q: I don't want this to be any of my words, I want

4 yours. :·.:when you use the word attack do you recall her saying

5 he attacked her?

6 A: She probably used the assault versus the word

7 attacked.

8 Q: Do you remember she used the word assault?

9 A: Yes.

10 Q: What else?

11 A: Speaking more about being disbelief that that

12 happened versus saying I'm afraid of him. She didn't tell me

13 that night she was afraid of him.

14 Q: Okay. And when she was talking to you about it,

15 would you she--you think she used the word assault right?

16 A: Mm-hmm.

17 Q: Did she ever give you anymore of the details in that

18 long conversation about what happened other than he pushed me

19 and I hit my head?

20 A: No. Anything else that she said was about the

21 arguing and about this kind of battle amongst them like

22 happening over and over. And why can't I be happy--those

23 kinds of things. The comments weren't all focused around her

24 hitting her head. That was a statement that was made. And


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1 she talked about being shocked and surprised by the fact that

2 it had happened. But the majority of the contents of that

3 conversation was just about this relationship that was

4 failing.

5 Q: Did she express she still wanted the relationship--

6 anything about she still wanting the relationship to continue?

7 A: She may not have used those words specifically, no.

8 Q: But what does that mean? I mean I'm wondering what

9 you mean she may not have used those words.

10 A: Well the comments that she made were speaking to the

11 relationship and the problems with it. And kind of speaking

12 as to why it couldn't just be something great and wonderful.

13 So she didn't necessarily use the words I want to continue

14 this relationship but she's talking about it.

15 Q: All right. During this time when she was driving

16 back and talking to you about it, did she expressed to you how

17 it had begun, why she had gone to his motorhome?

18 A: Yes. She said that she received a text message I

19 believe from him. And in the text he had said some troubling

20 things that had led her to believe--

21 Q: [interposing] What are the troubling things?

22 A: That he had said that he was rolled up on the floor,

23 I'm not sure--the word fetal position comes to mind but I

24 can't say for sure that's what she said. But that he was


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1 somehow rolled up in the middle of the floor crying I believe.

2 Q: And so she said what? What did she do?

3 A: So receiving that update from him that she was

4 concerned.

5 Q: So did she express why she took Houston with her or

6 did she discuss that at all?

7 A: No.

8 Q: All right. And then when she talked in terms of why

9 she went, did she say anything to you about what happened when

10 she arrived? Did she talk about him telling her to leave?

11 A: I believe she did, yes. That he was upset that she

12 was there.

13 Q: And did she say--when he was upset when she was

14 there, did she say anything about him telling her to leave?

15 A: Yes.

16 Q: Did she say how many times he told her to leave?

17 A: If she did I don't recall.

18 Q: Did she explain to you in her conversation from her

19 point of view why she didn't leave when he told her to?

20 A: No.

21 Q: Okay. Now when you got to--when you finished that

22 conversation, when was the next time that you heard from her?

23 A:

24 Q:

The following day.

And what was the following day about? How did that


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1 happen--what was that about?

2 A: I don't recall the specifics.

3 Q: Okay. How long was the conversation?

4 A: I don't recall that either.

5 Q: In that week after the 26th, from the 26th on--

6 through that weekend and on, did you hear from her very often?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: And what were you hearing from her? What was she

9 saying to you? First of all, let's start it this way. Were

10 you hearing by phone call or by text?

11 A: Both.

12 Q: How many times would you estimate.

13 A: I really don't know. It's difficult for me.

14 Q: That's okay. It would be hard to remember. If you

15 could give us some kind of ballpark for an idea of the

16 frequency, that's all I'm really trying to understand.

17 A: I was definitely hearing from her frequently in

18 those days, in that time period following that evening I was

19 hearing from her quite a bit so--

20 Q: And what does quite a bit mean?

21 A: So to say maybe daily I don't think would be--

22 Q: And was it one way or the other more--was it more

23 phone than text or more text than phone?

24 A: Probably more text than phone.


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1 Q: Okay. And what was the tone of these things in the

2 beginning? What was she expressing to you that she wanted or

3 how she felt?

4 A:·"· /·T-ha·t. she ,was upset. That she was angry. She was

5 broken hearted.

6 Q: In the course of these conversations was there any

7 tone of still wanting reconciliation?

8 A: I would say yes.

9 Q: All right. And how would that manifest itself?

10 What kind of things would she say?

11 A: Things like, you know, why can't this be different,

12 why can't he change, why can't he--those kinds of things.

13 When I hear those kinds of comments or questions I believe it

14 to mean that if he did then you'd be willing to receive him.

15 Q: But did she make any--if we go back to the week

16 before this happened, did she express to you concern all that

17 week that she wasn't hearing from him?

18 A: Yes.

19 Q: And was she upset that she couldn't reach out to him

20 that week before it happened?

21 A: I believe she did attempt to reach out to him but he

22 was not responding.

23 Q:

24 A:

And was she upset that he wasn't responding?

Yes.


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1 Q: And so was the thrust of the whole week before this

2 incident is, is that she wanted contact with him and wanted to

3 talk to him and be with him?

5 Q: Now after the 26th was there still a tone of that

6 that she still wanted the relationship to continue?

7 A: I believe so, yes.

8 Q: Okay. Did she talk in terms of being afraid of him

9 then as opposed to being upset with him?

10 A: This is after the--?

11 Q: After the 26th.

12 A: Um--

13 Q: And I want to talk about just the week now. We'll

14 go to December later. But at that time was she talking

15 immediately after in any terms of being afraid of him?

16 A: Not that I recall.

17 Q: Okay. Again your perception of what she wanted out

18 of the relationship, even the week after the 26th was what?

19 A: Reconciliation.

20 Q: Okay. Now during that period of time did you ever

21 tell her she should not go back to Kurt?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

This is after the incident?

26th, yeah.

Those specific words, me initiating those specific


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DIRECT EXAMINATION .OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 87

1 words, I don't believe I said that.

2 Q: All right. Did you tell her your view of what

3 should happen if a man--describe what you think of when a man-

4

5 A: [interposing] I definitely--

6 Q: Excuse me, let me finish.

7 A: Okay.

8 Q: -- if a man hits a woman. Go ahead.

9 A: I definitely would have told her that he has crossed

10 a line that cannot be uncrossed.

11 Q: Okay.

12 A: And if she would have said that she cannot go back

13 to him, I would have 100 percent full supported that decision.

14 Q: But did she ever say that?

15 A: Say what?

16 Q: That she couldn't go back to him.

17 A: She did yes, eventually.

18 Q: When? How long after all this happened?

19 A: Again I'm not sure of the timeframe. But this would

20 have been closer to when. this matter went public I guess, when

21 this was filed. So closer to that.

22 Q: Yeah I want to deal with the week of September--

23 after September 26th. And then we get into the month of

24 October and during the month of October--let's assume the next


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1 date I give you that everybody can agree on would be that the

2 complaint that this Court is hearing was filed on November

3 5th. Okay?

4 A: Okay.

5 Q: And at the time this complaint was filed, at the

6 same time she filed a criminal complaint with the Dover

7 Police. Both of those happening on November the 5th.

8 A: Okay.

9 Q: Are you with me?

10 A: I am.

11 Q: And during let's say the first two or three weeks

12 after this or four weeks after this, before it became public

13 and before she filed, was the dominant theme of her

14 communications with her to you that she wanted reconciliation?

15 A: So you're· basically talking about that entire window

16 of time is that right?

17 Q: Well not the entire. I want--depending on what your

18 answer is then I'm going to ask you when the tone changed. In

19 terms of weeks, I know you don't have dates. But let's

20 assume, as we have been, this happened September 26th and on

21 the other end of the spectrum is November the 5th. Are you

22 with me?

23 A:

24 Q:

Okay.

Did her attitude in what she was saying and all


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DIRECT EXAMINATION .OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 89

1 change or evolve to a particular approach during that

2 timeframe?

3 A: Yes.

4 Q: All right. In the first three or four weeks after

5 this happened how would you characterize what her attitude

6 was?

7 A: Can you remind me of the date that it happened?

8 Q: September 26th. So that would mean by the middle,

9 third week in October. Another way to look at it is a

10 reference of two weeks or so, and these are not automatic

11 dates I'm just trying to give you a frame. Can we look at

12 segments of the time between when it happened and when she

13 filed charges. You with me?

14 A: I am.

15 Q: Can you describe for the Judge the development or

16 what the attitudes were. First all did her attitude start

17 changing?

18 A: Yes it did.

19 Q: Can you put a rough timeframe about that?

20 A: Well it's probably important to say that the first--

21 around the first two weeks of October my wife and I were

22 actually gone. We were actually out of the country so we were

23 completely off the grid. There was no communication at all

24 during the course of that time.


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1 Q: Okay.

2 A: So with that being said I believe that the evolution

3 that it took was from a broken heart, longing for love and

4 reconciliation to .. anger and .a little bit of revenge.

5 Q: And when did that latter attitude begin to show

6 itself?

7 A: I think we returned back into the country around the

8 12th or the 13th of October.

9 Q: Let me stop you there. At the time you left the

10 first of October, how would you have characterized her

11 attitude about what had happened on the 26th?

12 A: The 26th being the date of the incident?

13 Q: Yes, that week after the incident. Before you went

14 on your trip--

15 A: Mm-hmm.

16 Q: -- if you were sitting there now how would you have

17 characterized her attitude?

18 A: Very similar as it had been. And that was shock and

19 surprise that this had happened, could not believe his

20 behavior, angry over this new development as far as the future

21 of their relationship, a broken heart--I mean that would kind

22 of sum it up for me.

23 Q: All right. Did she still seem to want to get back

24 together then?


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1 A: I couldn't say.

2 Q: Okay. Then what was it like when you returned?

3 A: When we returned I felt like the anger and different

4 things like that.had kind of really settled in. Almost like

5 she was in a position where she was almost embracing the fact

6 that there was no going back, like, there was no future for

7 this relationship, those kinds of things that she--that

8 weren't there when I left. So when I left I think that in her

9 mind those might have been a possibility but when I came back

10 I feel like she was much more settled with the possibility

11 that they would not reconcile.

12 Q: All right. I want to see if I can go to a series of

13 questions if I may.

14 A: Okay.

15 MR. HARDIN: May I have just a second, Your

16 Honor?

17 THE COURT: You may.

18 Q: Did she ever call or write you on multiple occasions

19 and tell you that her intention was to take Kurt down?

20

21

22 A:

23 Q:

24 you?

MS. MCNEICE: I'm sorry, take Kurt--?

MR. HARDIN: Down.

Writing me?

Or calling you and telling, did she ever say that to


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1 THE COURT: Mr. Hardin, this is a witness that

2 I'm not going to allow you to lead, sir. The witness'

3 recollection of events has been sufficiently sketchy but

4 I wil~··.:,n.:ot permit you to lead this witness.

5 MR. HARDIN: Your Honor, I'm not leading. I'm

6 asking a specific prior statement as to whether or not

7 that was said or not.

8 THE COURT: Understood. But you need to

9 understand what the Court's saying. You may proceed.

10 Q: Would you tell me in your own words what she started

11 saying that made you say her attitude changed? What kinds of

12 things did she start saying?

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

MS. MCNEICE: I'm going to object. This has

been asked and answered at least four times.

THE COURT: I will allow that answer.

MS. MCNEICE: May I ask then that he give us a

specific timeline if he's talking about certain weeks in

October, at the end of the time--

THE COURT: I think the witness has

characterized the timeline probably as best he can.

A:

Q:


THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.

Can you repeat that?

Sure. Would you tell me in your own words what type


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1 of things, if any, that she said that led you to describe it

2 as wanting revenge?

3 A: Well the change in the comments went from things

4 that were .. fo.cused on the relationship and the love aspect of

5 the relationship, it kind of went from that to talking more

6 along the lines of--

7 Q: [interposing] Wait a minute now, I don't want along

8 the lines. What I want you to do is try to remember as

9 specific as you can the thirigs she said.

10 A: Well to answer your question on why I believe it

11 turned to the issue of revenge or that kind of a mindset was

12 because the things that were said were speaking directly to

13 things that were not emotional in nature, they were more

14 technical in nature. So they were--she would make comments

15 about things like his career and the benefit that she played

16 there, the role that she played--

17 Q: [interposing] Excuse me, you're characterizing them.

18 I don't want you characterize them right now. I want you to

19 if you will just tell me what you remember her saying.

20 A: Can you tell me again what--

21 Q: [interposing] Specifically if you could just imagine

22 what the words were, what kinds of things did she actually

23 say?

24 A: Okay. So you want me to say what I remember to be


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1 the exact words?

2 Q: Yes.

3 A: Okay. So that would have been things like I

4 sacrificed my non-profit and my business to focus my efforts

5 solely on his career and to focus on how the media and the fan

6 base see him. Turning his career completely around, turning

7 the opinion of the fans and the media and things like that

8 from a PR perspective. I've put in all kinds of time and

9 resources and made sacrifices in doing that and he's not going

10 to walk away from me. So is that what you mean by specific?

11 Q: Well whatever--

12 A: [interposing] Because that was what I heard.

13 Q: -- she said.

14 A: That's what I heard, yes.

15 Q: Did she ever talk to you in terms of what she

16 intended to do about his career?

17 A: She intended to destroy it.

18 Q: Did she say that?

19 A: Yes.

20 Q: Can you give the Court the best memory you can of

21 the exact words you remember her saying?

22 A: I will destroy him.

23 Q: When did she say that? Did she say it more than

24 once first of all?


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DIRECT·EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 95

1 A: Thosei'specific woids not more than once. That vibe

2 and feeling, yes.

3 Q.: Did she say anything else? Did she ever use the

4 words take him down?

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

A: Yes.

MS. MCNEICE: Your Honor, I would suggest that

that's leading and that's not what he said.

THE COURT: Sustained.

MR. HARDIN: I'm sorry, I'm asking--if I may,

Your Honor, just for the record. The reason I'm asking

these--she specifically denied saying certain things. So

then to prove up a prior inconsistent statement, I need

to put in exactly did you ever say so and so--did she

ever say so and so to you. She has denied saying

specific things that I asked her on the cross. And so in

all due respecti ±t's riot a leading question to ask did

say so and so on a prior date. She has testified she did

not. That's why I wanted to get into specific questions-

-the questions are right out of the transcript of her

testimony.

THE COURT: I understand what you're saying,

Mr. Hardin. My understanding from what I've heard from

this witness is .that his specific recollection of what

people have said to him is sufficiently poor. That


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1 suggesting what someone may or may not have said to him

2 on a particular occasion may be tantamount to leading.

3 I'll allow you to continue to ask the questions but there

4 will ~ome.a point when it's going to end up being

5 sustained. You may continue.

6 Q: Did she ever tell you that her intention was to take

7 Kurt down?

8 MS. MCNEICE: I'm going to object again. I

9 just--

10 THE COURT: I understand--

11 MS. MCNEICE: I understood the Court--

12 THE COURT: I did say that I would permit him

13 to ask the question, ma'am. You may be seated.

14 MS. MCNEICE: That particular question?

15 THE COURT: Yes.


17 Q: Did she?

18 A: Yes.

19 Q: On one or more occasions?

20 A: More occasions than one.

21 Q: So if I ask--what is your answer if I ask you did

22 she ever tell you on multiple occasions that her intention was

23 to take Kurt down?

24 MS. MCNEICE: Objection. Asked and answered.


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1 He said more than one time. I don't know if he describes

2 that as multiple.

3 MR. HARDIN: And there's a specific reason I

4 ask those exact words.

5 THE COURT: I understand the specific reason

6 that you've asked those exact words. And I'm capable of

7 adding up his testimony to get to where you're going, Mr.

8 Hardin. The objection is sustained.


10 Q: Mr. Sniffen, the Court has questioned whether or not

11 your memory is specific--is sufficiently specific for you to

12 remember certain things with accuracy.

13 A: Mm-hmm.

14 Q: Would you tell us please just how specific in your

15 view your memory is as to these conversations you've had with

16 her over those periods of weeks?

17 A: To the date and time of them, my memory is not good

18 at all.

19 Q: How about as to the words themselves?

20 A: The words themselves I'm certain. If I wasn't I

21 wouldn't be saying it.

22 Q: And are you certain as to the general timeframe

23 these statements were made to you?

24 A: Yes.


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1 Q: And what is the general timeframe these statements

2 were made to you?

3 A: Well I'll generalize it the most I can and that is

4 from the time the incident to the time this went public.

5 Q: All right. And at the time this went public did she

6 continue to talk to you?

7 A: No.

8 Q: All right. Before this went public did you continue

9 through those two weeks or so--or three weeks in October to

10 have contact with her? And by that I mean after you returned

11 to the country, did you in fact have contact with her going

12 all the way up until it became public?

13 A: Yes.

14 Q: From the time you came back in the country.

15 A: Yes.

16 Q: And during these times that you have described for

17 the testimony for the Court and for the record, when she would

18 say these things give me a--would that have been from the time

19 you came back into country until the filing of these charges

20 on the 5th of November?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 asking.

24 A:

Urn--

There's a three week window there, that's all I'm

I understand. And for me I just have to either put


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1 it before we left the country or when we get back and I just

2 can't, I just don't know. Really I just don't know.

3 Q: Okay. During the time that you--once you came back

4 into the country, did you have--did she ever say anything to

5 you about a car? About Kurt and a car.

6 A: After we returned?

7 Q: Yes.

8 A: After we came back into the country?

9 Q: Yes.

10 A: I don't know if it was before we left or after we

11 returned.

12 Q: All right. And what did she say?

13 A: In regards to a car?

14 Q: Yes. Did she ever make any reference to you, a car

15 and $90,000?

16 A: She had made a comment that she was--that if he

17 thought he was going to buy her off with a $90,000 car and

18 leave her with just that that he had another thing coming.

19 Q: Did she ever say to you I'm going to get reimbursed

20 for everything that I ever did for his career as a PR person?

21

22

23

24

MS. MCNEICE: Objection. Leading.

MR. HARDIN: It's an exception to the hearsay

rule, Your Honor.

MS. MCNEICE: I didn't say it was hearsay.


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1 MR; HARDIN: Well by definition asking about a

2 prior inconsistent statement has to be leading.

3 THE COURT: Asking this witness about this

4 witness' prior inconsistent statement?

5 MR. HARDIN: No, asking this proving up a prior

6 inconsistent statement based on her denying having made

7 it. In all due respect, Judge, it's the standard way.

8 Witness says X, we contend that's not true. We then ask

9 the person she denied making the statement to did she

10 make that statement to you--

11 THE COURT: I'll allow you to continue, Mr.

12 Hardin, as long as you want to continue with this

13 witness. You may continue.

14 Q: Did she say--

15 MR. HARDIN: I think the question was did I

16 want to give you a copy of the transcript or refer you to

17 it.

18 THE COURT: I've got a transcript. I can refer

19 to it.

20 MR. HARDIN: I know. Thank you, Judge.

21 Q: Did she ever say to you I will destroy him--in

22 addition to myself getting compensated I'm going to destroy

23 his career?

24 MS. MCNEICE: Objection. That was asked and


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DIRECT EXAMINATION :oF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 101

1 answered. ·He has already testified that she said to him

2 one time I will destroy him.

3 THE COURT: I believe it has been asked and

4 answered, Mr. Hardin.

5 Q: Do you recall asking her anything about whether he

6 had been drinking that night of the 26th?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: What did you ask her and what did she say?

9 A: Had he been drinking was my question and her

10 response was no.

11 Q: And when did that happen?

12 A: When she called from her vehicle when she was

13 leaving.

14 Q: Now if I give you dates and say that this particular

15 case first had hearings on December the 16th and the 17th,

16 during that timeframe or shortly after that timeframe did you

17 begin to receive some texts again from Ms. Driscoll?

18 A:

19 Q:

20 17th.

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

Can you ask me again? Based on what date?

The hearings let's assume were December 16th and

That's these hearings here.

These hearings.

Okay.

All right. And after Ms. Driscoll's allegations


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1 became public, did you continue to hear from her or did that

2 stop?

3 A: That stopped.

4 Q: And then when did you next hear from her?

5 A: The most recent time that I've heard from her was in

6 December.

7 Q: Okay. And how were you hearing from her? What

8 happened?

9 A: I received a text message from her.

10 Q: And by the way right after it happened or right

11 after this became public, did you receive a communication from

12 her that somebody was going to be calling you from NASCAR?

13 A: Yes.

14 Q: And do you recall the name of the man that was going

15 to call you?

16 A: John Bobo.

17 Q: And do you know one way or the other what his

18 position is with NASCAR?

19 A: No.

20 Q: All right. What did Ms. Driscoll want you to do

21 regarding Mr. Bobo?

22 A: She was letting me know that she had given him my

23 contact information and that he was going to be contacting me.

24 And she asked me to speak honestly with him when he calls.


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1 Q: All right. And then did he call you?

2 A: He did.

3 Q: How soon after this all became public do you think

4 he call,ed:- y_o.u?

5 A: I don't know.

6 Q: All right. And did you speak with him?

7 A: I did.

8 Q: And you basically tell Mr. Bobo what you've been

9 telling the Court?

10 A: Yes.

11 Q: And did she contact you by text or by phone to tell

12 you that?

13 A: Regarding John Bobo I believe it was a text message.

14 Q: Okay. Now was that shortly after it became public?

15 If you recall.

16 A: Yes.

17 Q: All right. So that would have been some contact you

18 had with her after it became public. Is that the only contact

19 you had until December?

20 A: No, there would have been some random contact. She

21 also sent me an email that was--it was actually sent to

22 someone else but I was copied on the email. So that was a

23 form of communication.

24 Q: What was that about?


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1 A: That was-~I believe it was a detective. I'm really

2 not sure who the person was--the recipient of the email was.

3 I was just copied on it.

4 Q:. ,:::-AJ::L.right. Did Detective Wood here call you?

5 A: I did receive a phone call from him, yes.

6 Q: Did you talk to him?

7 A: I have not spoken with him, no.

8 Q: How come? Did y'all just miss or what?

9 A: No, he's called me and I hit redial on my phone and

10 it called back and then it just rang and rang with no

11 voicemail. And I did that a handful of times. And then I

12 came to find out much later that by hitting redial I actually

13 was not calling him. Apparently I was calling--I don't know

14 where I was calling but it wasn't dialing him and there was

15 another phone number or his cell phone.

16 Q: All right. Did he try to reach you again after

17 that?

18 A: No, he only left the one message when he called the

19 one time.

20 Q: All right. So at this stage you have not had an

21 interview by him?


23 Q: All right. Have you talked to anybody within law

24 enforcement about this?


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1 A: No.

2 Q: Okay. Now .did you indicate--did we attempt to get

3 you to come testify back in December?

4 A: Did you ask me to testify? Yes.

5 Q: All right. And what did you tell us?

6 A: I said no.

7 Q: All right. And why did you say no?

8 A: Because I felt that this was for an order of

9 protection in Family Court versus any kind of a criminal

10 proceeding with obviously much more on the line. And I

11 thought the matter whether he could be within 50 feet of

12 someone or not didn't merit me coming out here and possibly

13 having my integrity questioned. So--

14 Q: What changed your mind? Well let me put it this

15 way. Did you only very recently agree to come in?

16 A: Yes.

17 Q: Why did you do that?

18 A: Well it had been over too many conversations to

19 count that my wife and I had about this. The one thing we

20 both agreed upon is what I had to share I would have to share

21 at some point. That I was going to be able to just skate

22 through life and not share these things. It was always a

23 matter of when--when is the right time to do that. And I

24 think we just really felt like we could--we just wanted before


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DIRECT· EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 106

1 this continued on and--

2 MS. MCNEICE: . Objection. To the extent that

3 he's making comments that might include his wife and that

4 should be hearsay. If he has some comments or positions

5 or impressions of his own that's how he should--

6 THE COURT: He can talk about the discussions

7 with his wife that he had that caused his motivation to

8 change. You may continue, sir.

9 A: And we basically just--we were just uneasy with the

10 fact of feeling like there were some things that I knew and

11 experiences that I had and words that I had heard from people.

12 And we couldn't just not say anything. That we were

13 ultimately going to held accountable to a Court that was much

14 higher than this one and we needed to step forward and say

15 something now.

16 Q: You mean the Court upstairs?

17 A: That's right.

18 Q: All right. I want to ask you now--I'm going to show

19 you what's been marked as R20 and ask you to identify it for

20 me. Now first of all, did you receive a series of text

21 messages from her in December?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Yes.

And were those text messages on your cell phone?

Yes.


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1 Q: And have you.made those text messages available to

2 us?

3 A: Yes.

4 Q: And were they put in a form off of your phone that

5 appears before you in R20?

6 A: Yes.

7 Q: I want you to look at R20--

8 MS. MCNEICE: Your Honor, this is being

9 referred to as R20. I'll note that it has not been

10 admitted and marked for identification--

11 THE COURT: Understood.

12 MS. MCNEICE: -- at this time.

13 THE COURT: I got it.

14 Q: I want you to look at R20 and tell us whether or not

15 each of these entries are verbatim and accurate renditions of

16 text messages you received from Ms. Driscoll. Just take your

17 time and look at each paragraph.

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

A: Yes.

MS. MCNEICE: May I ask again the specific

question he was responding to at that particular time.

Or there were actually two questions.

THE COURT: I think the question is whether or

not the contents of the document before him constituted a

verbatim recitation of the content of text messages sent


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1 to the witness .. by Ms. Driscoll in the month of December

2 of last year.

3 MS. MCNEICE: These four text messages were

4 sent from her, is that the question?

5 THE COURT: That was my understanding of the

6 question that was asked of the witness.

7 A: If the question that's being asked is if these four

8 were sent to me--

9 Q: Yes.

10 A: No, then the answer is no. Because this is a

11 conversation but three were sent to me and one was sent by me.

12 If that makes sense.

13 THE COURT: Okay.

14 Q: All right. Were each of these conversations that

15 either--communications that you had with Ms. Driscoll in

16 December?

17 A: Yes.

18 Q: All right. And because I misspoke, the first

19 paragraph who sent that? Without going into the contents of

20 it, who sent the first paragraph?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

Ms. Driscoll sent that.

And then who sent the second paragraph?

Ms. Driscoll.

Then who sent the third paragraph?


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1 A: I did.

2 Q: To whom?

3 A: To Ms. Driscoll.

4 Q: y··And?c':tben who sent the fourth paragraph?

5 A: Ms. Driscoll.

6 Q: Okay. So with that explanation do all of--does

7 every entry on this page reflect text messages either sent by

8 Ms. Driscoll to you or you to Ms. Driscoll?

9 A: Yes.

10 Q: All right.

11 MR. HARDIN: I move to introduce Respondent's

12 20, Your Honor.

13 THE COURT: So I have just a few questions for

14 you before the Court decides whether to admit the

15 document. The document that you have before you, you've

16 testified contains the substance of some text messages.

17 Is that document something you printed off your phone?

18 A: This document here?

19 THE COURT: Yes, sir, the document that's in

20 your hand.

21 A: No, this was not a screen shot or something printed

22 directly from my phone. No.

23

24

THE COURT: Okay. So is that a document to

your understanding that was prepared by someone?


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1 A: Yes.

2 THE COURT: Okay. How did you transmit to

3 whoever prepared this document, the content of your text

4 messages?

5 A: I handed them my cell phone.

6 THE COURT: You handed the person your cell

7 phone?

8 A: Correct.

9 THE COURT: Okay. And then the person wrote

10 down or transcribed what was in your cell phone?

11 A: That's my understanding.

12 THE COURT: Okay.

13 MR. HARDIN: I believe that I can say that

14 person the testimony would be, if you want us to do a

15 chain, would be that he gives his cell phone and that is

16 emailed to us so we can then transcribe it on to here.

17 THE COURT: Okay. So your testimony, sir, is

18 that you gave this cell phone to some person--

19 A: Correct.

20 THE COURT: -- who then typed up what was in

21 your cell phone?

22 A: I'm assuming that that's what they did. I don't

23 know what they did with it. But I pulled it up on my phone

24 and then I handed my phone to someone. I'm guessing that's


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1 where they might have gotte~ this from.

2 THE·COURT: Who did you hand your phone to?

3 A: I think I handed it to--

4 MR. HARDIN: Mr. Yarbrough [phonetic]?

5 A: Yes.

6 THE COURT: Okay. So you handed the phone to

7 Mr. Yarbrough then did you see what he did with it?

8 A: I believe he handed the phone to--I don't know your

9 name, I'm sorry.

10 THE COURT: There person sitting next to him.

11 A: Yes.

12 THE COURT: Okay. And did you see what that

13 person did with it?

14 A: I believe they were taking down the information. We

15 were sitting in the presence of each other and I believe

16 that's what she was doing. Although I wasn't right over her

17 shoulder.

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

THE COURT: So they were writing down the

information?

A: I believe so.

THE COURT: Okay. And have you reviewed the

text messages that are purported to be contained in that

document to determine that they're the same--the exact

same language that was :in your phone?


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DIRECT EXAMINATION ·oF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 112

1 A: You mean have I--

2 THE COURT: Have you reviewed your phone to

3 determine that that's what's on it?

4 A: Oh have I held my phone in one hand and this

5 document and compared the two? No I have not.

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

THE COURT: Okay. Do you have your phone in

\

order to--well obviously you don't have you phone, they

don't let you bring it in.

A: No I don't.

THE COURT: Do you have it with you somewhere

outside the courthouse where you can access it?

A: I do, yes.

THE COURT: Okay. I'm going take a recess and

order that you can do that because what I want to make

sure of is that you can testify to me that that document

contains the exact language that's on your cell phone--

A: I understand.

THE COURT: -- before I admit the document.

MR. HARDIN: And, Your Honor, the other

possibility would be if the Court wanted to permit him to

step off the stand, I could very quickly ask each of

those people what they then did with it so that the

record would have the chain of it.

THE COURT: The only concern that I have is


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1 that the witness be able to tell me that what's on that

2 document is what's on his cell phone.

3 MR. HARDIN: That's fair enough.

4 THE COURT: If he can tell me that that's

5 exactly what's on the phone, the documents coming in.

6 MR. HARDIN: Okay.

7 THE COURT: All right, thank you.


9 THE COURT: We'll take a recess, sir, in order

10 that you can do that. We'll allow you to bring your cell

11 phone into the courthouse for that purpose.

12 A: Okay.

13 THE COURT: And then we'll give you some time

14 to just take a look at your phone and--

15 MR. HARDIN: [interposing] I think we'll

16 probably have to--we'll have to go back to the hotel to

17 get it.

18 A: No it's in the car. They just told me I couldn't

19 bring it in the building.

20

21

22

23

24

THE COURT: You can't bring it in the building

but we'll let you bring it in now. He'll give you a tag

and you can get it. In recess.

THE CLERK: All rise.

[END 436261 20150113-0914 Part1]


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1 [START 436261 20150113-1155 Part2]

2 THE CLERK: Back in session. Please be seated.

3 THE COURT: All right. Good morning again,

4 eve;r::yone.;.; ·.:~::Why .don't we just come off the bench briefly

5 and when Mr. Hardin's back in you can let me know. All

6 right thank you.

7 THE CLERK: All rise.

8 [END 436261 20150113-1155 Part2]

9 [START 436261 20150113-1157 Part3]

10 THE CLERK: Family Court back in session.

11 Please be seated.

12 THE COURT: All right. Now we're back on the

13 record. And when we left Mr. Sniffen was going to review

14 the contents of his cell phone as it related to text

15 messages as that were contained on his cell phone and

16 determine whether or not the document before him

17 contained a verbatim recitation of what's in those text

18 messages. And have you been able to do that, sir?

19 A: I have looked it over and it's actually--what's

20 written here is verbatim but there is actually one segment

21 that is missing. So in the back and forth text there's

22 actually one whole segment that's not in here.

23

24

THE COURT: Okay. And that's fine. Folks can

ask you about that since you have your phone now.


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1 A: Okay.

2 THE COURT: But the only thing that's important

3 for the Court's purposes is whether what's contained in

4 that document is verbatim from what's in your phone.

5 A: And it is.

6 THE COURT: Okay. Thank you, sir. Ms.

7 McNeice, as it relates to the exhibit, do you have any

8 objection to its admission.

9 MS. MCNEICE: With the provision that it's now

10 been declared to be incomplete, yeah that is my

11 objection, Your Honor.

12 THE COURT: Okay. Well certainly I'm going to

13 admit the document and I'll certainly allow you to

14 question Mr. Sniffen with the respect to the extent that

15 it's incomplete. And to the extent that you wish to

16 admit the remainder of whatever is in the document you

17 may. So that will be Respondent's 20.

18 [Whereupon Respondent's Exhibit 20 was admitted

19 into evidence.]


21 MR. HARDIN: May I proceed, Your Honor?

22 THE COURT: Sure.

23 Q: Now if you would let me give you--it's the same

24 document. And let me ask you if you would for the record, the


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DIRECT .EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 116

1 top of it says Saturday, December the 20th, 6:36 p.m. is that

2 right?

3 A: Yes.

4 Q: And when you're saying there was some--one exchange

5 missing is it--does that exchange come before or after this

6 date?

A: 7 That exchange comes on that date.

8 On December 20th? Q:

A:

10 Q: All right. And was that exchange from you or from

11 her?

12 A: From her.

13 Q: All right. Does it come before this time of 6:36

14 p.m. ?

15 A: No.

16 Q: Okay.

17 A: After.

18 Q: All right. So when we come to 6:36p.m. if

19 something wasn't captured, you've got your phone in front of

20 you correct?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 missing.

24 A:

Yes.

Then if you will read into the record what is

Okay.


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1 Q: Do I understand correctly that all of this is

2 correct but there1s one exc~ange you had during this time

3 period that is not captured?


5 Q: All right. So we'll put that into evidence as we

6 get to it chronologically.

7 A: Okay.

8 Q: Okay~ Now would you read for the record the

9 Saturday, December 20th at 6:36 p.m. what she sent you?

10 A: I want you to know that Kurt's attorneys have made

11 it sound like you are coming to testify for him. I'm not sure

12 what you'd say because I've only told you what happened that

13 night. I called you after he assaulted me because I trusted

14 you and believed in our friendship. They claim all kinds of

15 awful things that I've never sa.id to you including "I'm going

16 to take him down." I only ever wanted Kurt to get help with

17 his alcoholism and depression. I thought you were in that

18 battle with me to help. I hope what they are saying isn't

19 true because I know I've never told you anything like that. I

20 also want you to know that Kurt has my ex-husband testifying

21 for him. They are both now working together to take my son

22 from me.

23 Q: All right .. Let me ask you about a couple of things

24 that she says there. Were you aware--did you follow the


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1 opening statement so the testimony or evidence in this case

2 that this Judge was ·hearing on the 16th and 17th of December,

3 just several days before this text?

4 A: Did I--what do you mean?

5 Q: At the time that it was going on, were you aware of

6 what was being said here in court?

7 A: No.

8 Q: Okay. Had you had 'any knowledge at the time she sent

9 this on December the 20th what Mr. Liguori may have said

10 during his opening statement or what I may have asked her

11 about during her testimony? Did you have any knowledge of

12 that at the time of December 20th?

13 A: No. I don't know who Liguori is.

14 Q: Okay, all right.

15 A: I don't know who that is.

16 Q: All right. And so when this thing of I'm going to

17 take him down we've had several questions about that. Okay?

18 And when she said she only wanted to get help with his

19 alcoholism and depression, is that accurate that she was

20 always frequently talking to you about what she continued was

21 Kurt's alcoholism and depression?

22 A:

23 those?

24 Q:

So the question is was she--did she talk to me about

In your times with her over the last two or three

Ubiqus/Nation-Wide R:eporting & Convention Coverage 22 Cortlandt Street- :suite 802, New York, NY 10007

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1 years.

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: All right. Did you yourself ever have any

4 independent knowledge of one way or the other as to whether he

5 suffered from alcoholism or depression?

6 A: Outside of what she had said to me?

7 Q: Yes.

8 A: No.

9 Q: All right. So during the time that you talked to

10 Kurt and during the time you counseled with him--during all

11 that period of time, did you ever have any evidence from him

12 or from any other source other than her concerning him having

13 possible alcohol--possibly being an alcoholic or depression?

14 A: An alcoholic and alcoholism? No, I don't have any--

15 I never experienced anything firsthand and he never said

16 anything to me. Is that your question that he said it to me?

17 Q: Yes.

18 A: No, he has not.

19 Q: All right. So whenever you would conversations that

20 she's talking about here where she wanted Kurt to get help,

21 and says here that all I ever wanted to get help with his

22 alcoholism and depression. Is that all based on what she was

23 telling you during those two or three years?

24 A: Yes.


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1 Q: Okay. And when she says I thought you were in that

2 battle with me to help. When she would to you about it would

3 you try to help or make suggestions to her in that respect?

4 A: .·.:;~Jtt>.sol.utely, yes.

5 Q: And when she says I've never told you anything like

6 that referring back to her--whether or not she said I'm going

7 to take him down, is it still your testimony that she said

8 that to you?

9 A: Yes.

10 Q: Any question in your mind?

11 A: No.

12 Q: Any bad memory about it?

13 A: I don't understand the question.

14 Q: Is your memory uncertain about that at all?

15 A: On whether or not she said it? . . .

16 Q: Yes.

17 A: No.

18 Q: Okay. Let's go to the next entry. She--there's a

19 gap here between the 20th and the 22nd. And I believe you

20 said your phone has something else on the same date the 20th?

21 A: Yeah.

22 Q: Can you go to that and tell us what date that was

23 and what time it was.

24 A: The phone did not insert a date or a time which


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1 tells me that it happened at the same time. So even though

2 it's a separate text that was composed, since it was done so

3 close to that previous one my phone does not insert a date or

4 a time. So.I'm guessing it .was the same time--

5 Q: Okay.

6 A: -- as the first one.

7 Q: All right. And we know it's certainly before

8 December 22nd right? Which is going to be the next one.

9 A: Yes, that's correct.

10 Q: All right. Can you read to the Court what that one

11 was. And is this a text from her?

12 A: It is.

13 Q: What does she say?

14 A: It says when you gave me the advice that I could

15 never go back to Kurt and he crossed the line, I listened. As

16 I told you that night there~s a lot going on with my custody

17 before I could call the police. I always wanted him to get

18 help and that's where I asked you to step in. I hope now my

19 wanting him to get help is not being used against me.

20 Q: Okay. Did you--is that an accurate statement as to

21 what you told her? You testified about--you've already

22 testified about you can't go back or once you cross that line

23 you can't go back. .Did you tell her to not go back to him?

24 A: That was not my advice to her, no.


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1 Q: What was your advice to her?

2 A: What--she had told me that that's her position and I

3 supported her position but I did not give her that advice to

4 do that.

5 Q: So you never told her not to go back to Kurt?

6 A: Correct.

7 Q: Why would you not tell her that? Or why are you so

8 certain you didn't tell her that?

9 A: Because I just--I know me and the way I try to

10 counsel and encourage people and I would not have said that.

11 I just--I just wouldn't have said that.

12 Q: Why not?

13 A: Because it's not my decision to make.

14 Q: Okay. All right. It's not something you try to

15 talk somebody into?

16 A: It's just not my decision to make.

17 Q: Okay.

18 A: And I would not have said that.

19 Q: All right. Now is the next entry on your phone

20 Monday, December 22nd?

21 A: Yes.

22 Q: All right. Then you can go back, if it's easier, to

23 look at the paper or R20. Would you read for the record what

24 she sent two days later at 8:58 a.m.?


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1 A: I'm going to assume your silence means that you've

2 been working with Kurt and I don't understand why you would do

3 that. I didn't make up the story when I called you that

4 night. I have only asked you both to help Kurt get the

5 treatment and help he needed all these years. All of our

6 texts prove this. I'm angry and confused as to why he'd put

7 his hands on me especially after all I've done for him. He

8 had no right to hurt me. I will not apologize for turning him

9 into the police. He now has retaliating by trying to take my

10 son from me. Are you really going to stand by this?

11 Q: Now you had not returned the email that she sent on

12 the 20th. And then this next one stands for--the words

13 explain themselves. But I want to ask you if there's anything

14 in here that's--if everything here is accurate in terms of

15 what she's saying. Were you working with Kurt at that time?

16 A: I would say yes.

17 Q: In what way?

18 A: Well I think our initial--when we were first

19 introduced to one another it was under the understanding that

20 he was experiencing some problems in his life and that I could

21 possibly help him with those things. So in that instance I

22 would be working with Kurt. But by the time this was

23 exchanged I believe that we had crossed into a friendship is

24 what I believe.


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1 Q: Yes. You're talking about the overall two or three

2 year period that you've known him.

3 A: Yes.

4 Q: But if this was referring to that you've been

5 working with Kurt meaning in this case would that be accurate?

6 A: Working with Kurt in this case?

7 Q: Well look at it again and remember what the first

8 paragraph up there was about.

9 A: Oh I see what you're saying. So that it's saying

10 I'm working with him in this matter.

11 Q: Well I'm only asking if that is what is meant. I

12 can't say what it is.

13 A: I can see that now that that would--yes I can see

14 that now.

15 Q: Well if that was what was meant, would that be true?

16 Were you working with Kurt on this case at that time?

17 A: No.

18 Q: And what kind of contact did you have with us at

19 that time of December the 22nd, do you recall?

20 A: I can't recall, no.

21 Q: Had you had any personal contact with Kurt at that

22 time? Did Kurt ask you to testify? By text or in person.

23 A:

24 Q:

No, I don't believe so by this time.

All right. Did Kurt ultimately ask you to testify


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1 by phone or by text?

2 A: I believe he did, yes.

3 Q: And did you decline?

4 A: I did.

5 Q: All right. And have we called and asked you to

6 testify?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: And had you declined?

9 A: Yeah I would have definitely declined, yeah.

10 Q: Okay. So at the time of December the 22nd at 8:58

11 a.m., what is your testimony as to whether there was any basis

12 for suggesting that you were working with us or Kurt?

13 A: I was not.

14 Q: Okay. Now then you respond that same day do you

15 not?

16 A: I did.

17 Q: And what time did you respond?

18 A: 1:37 p.m.

19 Q: And for the record would you read what you wrote to

20 her on December 22nd in response to her email earlier that

21 morning? Or text message--excuse me.

22 A: I said the delayed response is simply because I have

23 no idea what to say. It's as simple as that. This is the

24 first time we've heard from you at length since all of this


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1 went public. My belief that God called me to minister to Kurt

2 hasn't changed. I've remained steadfast in this fact from day

3 one. Right now we are seeking God's counsel not man's. At

4 this point.I .. can't avoid some sort of fallout. All that

5 remains is for me to do what God directs me to do. And I'm

6 still trying to figure that out. But not today. Today is set

7 aside to bake cookies with our children. And that's my sole

8 focus at this moment. Our prayers for you haven't ceased and

9 we sincerely hope for the very best for you and Houston. Take

10 care.

11 Q: Now at this time did you feel like you were kind of

12 being pulled back and forth by both sides?

13 MS. MCNEICE: Objection. Hearsay--or excuse

14 me, it is leading.

15 THE COURT: That on~ is sustained,

16 Q: And at this time had you agreed to testify for

17 either side?

18 A: No.

19 Q: Now then on December the 22nd on that Monday, it

20 doesn't have a time. Did she write you again? Does your cell

21 phone indicate what time this last message was?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

No I think--

The last paragraph.

I think it did the same thing like when they're


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1 happening at the same time.

2 Q: Okay.

3 A: I don't even think it said Monday, December 22nd.

4 They were butted up against each other. I can look at it just

5 to make sure. Yeah those last two, mine and then her response

6 there was no date or time. So they're happening

7 simultaneously again.

8 Q: All right. What did she write you?

9 A: I thought you were also called to minister to me.

10 Are you saying that you are no longer willing to do that for

11 me and Houston? Am I to understand you've chosen a side.

12 There is a reason I didn't ask you to speak with my attorney.

13 I wanted you to be my minister. I hope I'm reading this

14 incorrectly. But am I to understand you're speaking to Kurt's

15 attorneys? I always believe our conversations to be held

16 under the preacher/counselor privacy rule respected by law.

17 Am I to understand that this has been breached.

18 Q:

19 message?

20 A:

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

How did you respond--did you respond to that

I did not.

And why not?

Because it didn't merit a response.

In what way? How did you take it?

I took it as the integrity of what I do to be


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1 questioned and I felt like it was a threat.

2 Q: In fact ·as a result of this text what did you do?

3 Did you consult anyone?

4 A: I did. I went to my pastor who in turn went to some

5 of the legal team at our denominations corporate office.

6 Q: And what were you trying to find out?

7 A: If in fact I had done something that was illegal.

Q: As to whether there was a pastor - - privilege?

9 A: Yeah if there was some law that was--that I could

10 stand to be breaking. Or had I broken some law just by having

11 this engagement with her. I had no idea. Once that was

12 brought up--I had never heard of the preacher/counselor

13 privacy rule. But once I did I thought I probably should find

14 out what this is.

15 Q: Yeah.

16 A: So yeah.

17 Q: And then as a result did you have any more contact

18 with her after this text message of December 22nd?

19 A: With who?

20 Q: With Ms. Driscoll.

21 A: No.

22 Q: Now when you decided to come forward, when did you

23 first notify us that you were willing to testify?

24 A: Sunday.


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DIRECT. EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 129

1 Q: This Sunday?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: And were you offered to pay for your airfare for you

4 to come out here?

5 A: I don't know that that was necessarily spoken of. I

6 know that when I said I would come I expected you to.

7 Q: All· right. · . And did you--was there any conversation

8 or so about you being--a room for you being paid for or

9 anything?

10 A: No. And it was never spoken directly to. I just

11 said here's my name and here's my ID number and--

12 Q: So you assumed that we were going to pay for your

13 airfare and your hotel?

14 A:

15 Q:

16 A:

17 Q:

18 A:

19 Q:

20 A:

21 Q:

22 A:

23 Q:

24 testimony?

Absolutely.

And where are you staying?

At the Dover Casino.

And do you have any idea how much your room cost?

No clue.

And do you know what your airfare cost?

No.

Did we do the booking for that?

Yes.

Anything about th~t that would affect your

, Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Reporting & Convention Coverage 22 Cortlandt Street- Suite 802, New York, NY 10007

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· DIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 130

1 A: That would affect my testimony?

2 Q: Yeah.

3 A: No.

4 Q: ';,.c:· .. Ha.s anybody at any time ever threatened you if you

5 didn't come forward?

6 A: No.

7 Q: Has anybody offered to bribe you to come forward?

8 A: No.

9 Q: Can you imagine any reason if you were in agreement

10 and willing to come from California that whoever asked you to

11 come wouldn't be willing to pay for your airfare and your

12 room?

13 A: No, I would assume that you don't want me to testify

14 then.

15 Q: All right. By the way there seems to be maybe some

16 misunderstanding when you said there would be a higher

17 authority than this Court you'd have to answer to. What

18 higher authority did you mean?

19

20

21

22

23

24

THE COURT: I understood which one he meant.

MR. HARDIN: All right. I wanted to be sure.

MS. MCNEICE: I think that he described it as

upstairs, I think we all understand.

but--

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MS. MCNEICE: It's not Judge--

THE COURT: -- and some of them are higher

authorities than me but I understood which one he meant.

·J:MR.- HARDIN: Some people did not, that's why I

asked the question.

THE COURT: Okay.

Q: Now just a couple more things.

MR. HARDIN: If I could have just a second,

Your Honor.

THE COURT: Sure.

MR. HARDIN: That's it, Judge. Thank you.

THE COURT: Ms. McNeice?

MS. MCNEICE: Your Honor, I have some cross

examine which I can start at this time but I also have a

number of emails from Mr. Sniffen that--in exchanges

between he and my client that I'd like to print out and

make copies for everyone and use as exhibits. And maybe

for continuity sake it's best if we break now if we might

for lunch. And then I can bring those back to the Court

and proceed.

THE COURT: All right. So if we want to break

for lunch at this point, that would be fine. We'll see

you folks back here at about 1:15 or so, 1:20. And we'll

assume during that period of documents that will have


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been prepared so that they can be accessed.

MR. HARDIN: Are there any copies that we could

be looking at during the lunch to save time?

.MS. MCNEICE: No, I'm going to go get them now.

THE COURT: All right. That's fine.

MS. MCNEICE: And also I have another witness

on call. I again wanted to be able to give that person a

timeline. I'm not sure--

THE COURT: Okay. Are there any other

witnesses after this one?

MR. HARDIN: No, not from us.

THE COURT: No other witnesses after this one

then. Okay.

MS. MCNEICE: All right. So then we can start

rebuttal after this.

THE COURT: That's what I'm hearing.

MS. MCNEICE: Correct? Your understanding?

MR. HARDIN: Yes.

MS. MCNEICE: Fine, thank you.


THE COURT: We're in recess.

[END 436261 20150113-1157 Part3]

[START 436261 20150113-1328 Part4]

THE CLERK: All rise. Family Court back in


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DIRECT· EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 133

1 session. Please be seated.

2 THE COURT: ~ll right. Good afternoon,

3 everyone.

4 MR. HARDIN: Good afternoon.

5 THE COURT: Ms. McNeice, I think we left off at

6 cross.

7 MS. MCNEICE: Yes, Your Honor. Thank you. As

8 it turned out, I'm not sure if it's over technician error

9 or the machine but I wasn't as successful as I wanted.

10 So we'll go without some of these other documents.

11 THE COURT: It's up to you. If there's a

12 telephone and you want me to read text messages, I can do

13 that into the record.

14 MS. MCNEICE: If we get to that point I will.

15 Thank you for the _assistance.

16 THE COURT: All right.

17 MS. MCNEICE: Yes.


19 BY CAROLYN MCNEICE

20 Q: Good afternoon, Mr. Sniffen. You indicated you're

21 44 and you're from California, correct?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Yes.

And you flew here. When did you do that, sir?

Last night.


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1 Q: Last night.

2 A: Mm-hmm.

3 Q: You arrived last night and stayed in Dover.

4 A: Correct.

5 Q: And somewhere during that time you met with Mr.

6 Hardin and--well one of his assistants and typed the messages

7 that you showed us earlier today.

8 A: I don't know when they were typed but I did meet

9 with them this morning, yes.

10 Q: This morning.

11 A: Correct.

12 Q: Okay. And it sounds like you have an interesting

13 history all of which has led you to be able people today.

14 A: I hope so.

15 Q: Okay. When youfirst met Patricia and Kurt did you

16 present yourself as someone that could help either one of them

17 individually or the two of them as a couple?

18 A: Did I present myself as someone who could help them?

19 I believe so. I mean they approached me but as soon as they--

20 they had already believed that I was someone that could help

21 so I just continued on with that belief, yes.

22 Q: I see. So when they approached you they already

23 knew the role you played for others, is that correct? They

24 already knew that you were a minister or you had provided some


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CROSS EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY C. MCNEICE 135

1 services to other people in counseling.

2 A: I believe so.

3 Q: Okay. ,And then you said you had dinner in Phoenix

4 at a time.

5 A: Yes.

6 Q: Was that the first time you went into any detail

7 about either one of them?

8 A: It was more social. I mean we didn't go in depth

9 with anyone's challenges or problems. It was more just kind

10 of just getting to know one another.

11 Q: Okay. Again clarify for me if you recall when that

12 Phoenix dinner was.

13 A: As far as the year?

14 Q: Yes, do you recall, sir?

15 A: Either two years ago--two years ago.

16 Q: Two years ago, okay.

17 A: Maybe three--I don't know. I'm sorry.

18 Q: At that time did Kurt relate to you any history of

19 alcohol abuse?

20 A:

21 Q:

22 per year.

23 A:

24 Q:

No.

You indicated that you participate in 5 to 10 races

That's correct.

Okay. And do you receive funds for an organization


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1 called The Outreach Organization that Nick Terry is with?

2 A: The Motor Racing Outreach?

3 Q: That's correct.

4 A: I'm sorry what's the question?

5 Q: Do you receive funds from them?

6 A: Yes they help with my expenses.

7 Q: Okay.

8 A: In the amount of $300 per race weekend.

9 Q: Per race weekend.

10 A: Correct.

11 Q: Is that a salary to you for working with them?

12 A: It's not a salary to me. It doesn't benefit me in

13 anyway. It helps to go towards the expenses of getting to the

14 track.

15 Q: I see. And _cio you receive any funds from them from

16 for instance a collection that might be taken during a service

17 if you participate?

18 A: No that goes to them.

19 Q: Okay. How about Armed Forces Foundation, do you do

20 any work with them?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 the past?

24 A:

I have.

Okay. What type of work have you done with them in

Aside from serving at their events with live


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1 performances, that would be where I would go and actually

2 perform a song. That would be at their event. I've done two

3 of their fundraisers.

4 Q: . ~Okay.

5 A: In addition to that I've done some graphic design

6 and layout work for their various efforts that they have. The

7 most recent being a education effort to educate young people

8 about Veteran's Day and just veterans in general on what they

9 do and that they're in your community and that kind of thing.

10 Q: All right. Did they pay you for attending

11 fundraisers?

12 A: No. But they covered my expenses.

13 Q: I see. How about the graphic design, do they pay

14 you for those services?

15 A: I did get paid for that, yes.

16 Q: Okay. Did they ever make any other contributions to

17 you?

18 A: They have, yes.

19 Q: Not related to the work that is.


21 Q: Okay. How about funds from Kurt Busch's business,

22 I'm not sure if it's a corporation or just what it is. Does

23 Mr. Busch ever make any direct contributions to you or your

24 ministry?


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1 A: He has, yes.

2 Q: When was the last one, sir?

3 A: I don't recall when the last one was. I'd have to

4 look.

5 Q: Okay. Was it in 2014?

6 A: Yes.

7 Q: Was it in the last--

8 A: That's last year, yes.

9 Q: I apologize, I thought you were finished.

10 A: No, yes.

11 Q: Yes it was in 2014?

12 A: Yes.

13 Q: Was it in the last quarter of 2014?

14 A: Maybe the last half of the year sometime.

15 Q: Had he made contributions to your ministry in the

16 past?

A:

18 Did you ever send him bills directly for any of the Q:

19 counseling that you might have done for instance either direct

20 counseling at a race or any counseling you might have done for

21 him over the phone or Skype or some other device?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Absolutely not, no.

Okay. You provide that for free?

Yeah, I'm not a licensed counselor.


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1 Q: I see.

2 A: Yeah.

3 Q: Do you hold any specific licenses, sir?

4 A: Aside from being an ordained minister, I have been

5 an ordained minister but I'm not licensed to be a counselor or

6 a therapist or anything like that.

7 Q: Okay. And who provided you with your licensing for

8 your ordination?

9 A: I was ordained under Set Free Worldwide Ministries.

10 Q: Set--

11 A: Set Free Worldwide Ministries.

12 Q: And did you attend a particular educational

13 institution to obtain that certification or that title?

14 A: No I did not.

15 Q: Did Mr. Busch ever_tell you that he was taking any

16 medication such as Wellbutrin?

17 A: I would definitely not know the name of any

18 medication so that would definitely be no to that. Did he

19 ever tell me he was taking medication?

20 Q: Only if you recall, sir.

21 A: I don't recall if he told me that, no.

22 Q: Okay. Did Mr. Busch ever relate to you an incident

23 that occurred in May of 2012 in North Carolina where my client

24 indicated that he had caused an act of domestic violence?


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1 A: In other words would have done domestic violence

2 against another person? Is that what you're asking me?

3 Q: Against Ms. Driscoll.

4 A: No he did not.

5 Q: Okay. At any time after this incident did Kurt

6 Busch ever tell you that he put his hands on Patricia's face?

7 A: No.

8 THE COURT: So did you ever discuss the

9 incident with Mr. Busch?

10 A: We have not, no. We have talked but when that

11 conversation started, right up front I told him I have no

12 interest in asking anything of you just so you know. I just

13 want to be here to encourage you and--


15 A: Yeah.

16 Q: So you never confronted him on this particular

17 incident.


19 Q: But Patricia did tell you about what happened on the

20 evening of the 26th of September correct?

21 A: Yes she did.

22 Q: She also told you that on September 27th that she

23 woke up and her bruises were worse and that she was in pain,

24 correct?


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1 A: I don't recall the date but yes I do recall her

2 telling me that.

3 Q: Just give me a minute. I just want to review some

4 of your earlier testimony. Have you worked with other victims

5 of domestic violence?

6 A: I have.

7 Q: As part of your ministry, sir?

8 A: Yes. I mean I'm basically invited to places where

9 the people have a history of maybe drug and alcohol abuse.

10 And it's probably because of my history that they invite me

11 there. So inadvertently I end up--my wife and I both meeting

12 a lot of people that deal with addiction. And some of the

13 times the things that go hand in hand with addiction are

14 abuse. So inadvertently yes I do come across people who are

15 victims of domestic violence.

16 Q: I see. Is your wife also an ordained minister with

17 the same ministry?

18 A: She is not.

19 Q: You indicated that after this incident during one of

20. your conversations or texts that Patricia presented disbelief

21 and shock. Did you find that those reactions were strange

22 given what she had related to you?

23 A: I'm sorry I don't understand the question.

24 Disbelief and shock over what?


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1 Q: Those were your words, sir, that she presented --

2 disbelief and shock.

3 A: Over--?

4 Q: · , ·,::I'he ,:incident _of September 26th.

5 A: Yes she did. She made those statements to me, I

6 can't believe he did this to me, yes.

7 Q: Okay. Did you find that be an anticipated response

8 from somebody in her position?

9 A: I find it to be consistent. I've heard something

10 like that before in the past, yes.

11 Q: Consistent with what, sir?

12 A: With other women who have made allegations of

13 domestic abuse.

14 Q: I see.

15 A: Saying that they were surprised and in disbelief

16 that this had happened.

17 Q: Just to clarify, sir, you've never had an

18 opportunity to--strike that. You said you didn't talk to Kurt

19 about this. Then you indicated that for the next few days she

20 approached you with questions that you anticipated as someone

21 looking for reconciliation. They were asking questions, why

22 can't he change, why is this happening, that sort of thing.

23 A:

24 Q:

Okay.

Okay. You said you went out of town and were out of


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communication with Patricia for several days. Could you tell

me again those dates?

A: I believe it was the 1st or 2nd of October through

the 12th·.::or';.l3:th ..

Q: 10/1 to 10/12?

A: Or 10/14.

Q: Thereabouts.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. And you said when you got home there was a

little different approach. This is when you saw this feeling,

the broken heart turn to anger.

A: I felt like there was more--that there was less--I'm

not sure, I know there's a word for it. There was less belief

that maybe they could reconcile.

Q:. __ Okay.

A: I know there's a word for that but it's evading me

right now.

THE COURT: Resignation.

A: Yeah. She was kind of there.

Q: Not going to happen.

A: Yeah.

Q: Okay. Were you familiar with any prior history of

Kurt Busch displaying any expressions of rage following races?

A: That I witnessed myself?


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Q: No, that you had read about, did he ever tell you

about it, anything like that?

A: Yeah I definitely came across that information,

yeah.

Q: Okay. Did he ever discuss that with you?

A: I would say that we touched on that, yes.

Q: Okay. You did touch on that.

A: Yes.

Q: Did he ever discuss with you addressing his issue of

rage?

A: We never used the term rage. So to answer the word

rage I've never dealt with that question with him.

Q: Okay. Anger--what word did you use?

A: A temper, you know, having a short temper, those

k_incis of_ things.

Q: Okay. What type of comments did you give him?

A: 9 times out of 10 I would immediately try to quote a

scripture. Some sort of passage from the bible that speaks to

issues of self control and patience and that these things were

not beyond reach, that there was actually hope and that change

was actually possible--real authentic lasting change is

possible. So I would have quoted a scripture.

Q: Okay.

THE COURT: Do you recall specifically though,


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CROSS. EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY C. MCNEICE 14 5

sir. I mean you're .telling us that that's what you would

have done--that you believe that you would have done.

But do you actually recall having done that?

A: Absolutely. I would say that a great majority of my

conversations with him were sharing scripture. So yeah I

would have definitely done that.

THE COURT: Okay. Sir, was there a period of

time during which you counseled Mr. Busch? Has it been

this whole time or was there some discrete period of time

when you counseled him?

A: I guess what I'm struggling with is the term counsel

like there was some season where I was a role of some sort of

a counselor outside of there just being a friendship that kind

of ensued. So I'm not really sure where to draw those lines.

I would have--I think I mentioned earlier that I would send

him like a scripture a few times a week, at least once a week

just to be there to encourage and to uplift. Not necessarily

meaning that he was facing some sort of a challenge. He could

have been having the best day of his life but I still wanted

to insert some sort of an encouraging word. Do you know what

I mean?

THE COURT: I do.

A: So I'm not sure when they landed on bad days or good

days all the time, I don't know.


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THE COURT: All right. And so you have

characterized your relationship with Mr. Busch as more as

a friendship than a counselor/client relationship.

A: I would say so, yes.

THE COURT: Okay. And is that the same

characterization of your relationship with Ms. Driscoll

or was it more--

A: I think so too.

THE COURT: Okay. So--

A: Friendship.

THE COURT: The relationship that we've heard

about between you and Ms. Driscoll is also one you

characterize as a friendship and you're helping out--

A: Yeah, the two relationships evolved hand in hand.

__ S_o they_ basically hg.ppened simultaneously. __ _

THE COURT: Okay.

A: So if I claim for him to be my friend then I claim

that she's my friend also.

THE COURT: Okay.

A: Yeah.

Q: When you say the two relationships you mean between

Kurt and Patricia.

A: No, I mean between them and myself.

Q: Okay. That's what I'm saying.


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A: Not between the two of them but between them and me.

Q: I apologize, I said that incorrectly. The

relationships you're talking about are not counselor or friend

relationship, but just you're knowing them and dealing with

them were simultaneous?

A: Correct.

Q: Okay.

MS. MCNEICE: Okay, if I could just have one

more minute to look through my notes.

THE COURT: Sure, take your time.

Q: I'm not sure if I asked you this. Do you still have

a professional relationship with Armed Forces Foundation?

A: I don't know the answer to that question.

Q: Okay. Have your payments from Patricia always been

in the f_or:rn of - - for- work_ that_ you've provide hBr?_ _

A: I don't understand the word. Do you mean to

compensate me for some of work?

Q: Mm-hmm. For work that you did.

A: No.

Q: So she's made contributions at time over and above

paying you for something?

A: Yes.

Q: How about not a contribution to the ministry but a

direct payment to you.


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A: Not a contribution to some sort of ministry work I

was perform, just for me as a person?

Q: Mm-hmm.

A:·.::·. :N.o;:3lo.L.outside of work I've done, to be compensated

for some sort of a task I completed, no.

Q: Okay. When you were providing information to Kurt

concerning his short temper, you indicated that you would

quote from the Bible.

A: That's correct.

Q: Did he ever indicate to you that these quotations or

scriptural readings assisted him in dealing with his short

temper?

A: I believe so. He would thank me which led me to

believe that he was appreciative and grateful for receiving

_ that. And the word;; we:ren' t mine~- I was_ sending _literal _____ _

quotes from the Bible so--

Q: Okay.

A: -- since he would thank me for them, I was assuming

that he was grateful to receive that.

Q: He was grateful to receive it. Did he ever indicate

to you that in fact the receipt scriptural readings actually

changed his temper?

A: No, he had never spoke directly to that, made that

statement like this thing you sent me changed me. No.


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1 MS. MCNEICE: Thank you, nothing further.

2 THE COURT: Mr. Hardin?

3 REDIRECT EXAMINATION


5 Q: Just a couple questions. Why do you say you don't

6 know whether you still have a connection with Armed Forces

7 Foundation?

8 A: Because those lines of communication have kind of

9 faltered. And I was actually tentatively scheduled to work on

10 something kind of specific--kind of a joint effort and it was

11 going to kind of be leading into the holidays and it didn't

12 happen. So I don't know--that's my honest answer. I don't

13 know if I'm still working to do anything for AFF or not. I

14 still believe passionately in what they're doing so I would

15 love to, I just don't know if that's--

16 Q: Okay. So you haven't severed the relationship, you

17 just don't know whether they have severed with you one way or

18 the other?

19 A: That's true. And I must admit to you that I haven't

20 made any efforts in light everything that's happening to

21 contact her staff. So I could be to blame for that as well.

22 Q:

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Thank you very much.

MR. HARDIN: That's all.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir, for your testimony.


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REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 150

Does anyone have any objection to this witness being

excused?

MR. HARDIN: I'd like to ask that he be excused

if that's okay.

MS. MCNEICE: No. I have no need to question

him further. Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Thank you, sir. You're excused

with the Court's thanks. Mr. Hardin, our understanding

before lunch is that you'd be resting at this point, is

that correct?

MR. HARDIN: That's correct.

THE COURT: Okay. All right, Ms. McNeice, do

you need time before you begin?

MS. MCNEICE: I may need just a minute to see

if my witness has arrived.

THE COURT: Do you want me to recess or no?

MS. MCNEICE: Yes please. Thank you.

THE COURT: All right. In recess.


[END 436261 20150113-1328 Part4]

[START 436261 20150113-1403 Part5]

THE CLERK: In session. Please be seated.

THE COURT: All right. Ms. McNeice, you have a

witness that you wish to call on rebuttal.


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REDIRECT EXAMINATION OF R. SNIFFEN BY R. HARDIN 151

1 MS. MCNEICE: I do, Your Honor.

2 THE COURT: Okay.

3 MS. MCNEICE: Officer James Wood, Dover Police

4 Department.

5 THE COURT: All right. Call Detective Wood.

6 THE CLERK: State your name for the record.

7 OFFICER JAMES WOOD: James C. Wood.

8 THE CLERK: Do you swear to tell the truth, the

9 whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

10 OFC. WOOD: Yes I do.

11 THE COURT: Ms. McNeice.


13 J A M E S W 0 0 D, having been first duly

14 sworn, testified as follows:

15 DIRECT EXAMINATION


17 Q: Good afternoon, Mr. Wood.

18 . A: Good afternoon .

19 Q: And your age, sir?

20 A: I'm 33.

21 Q: And your educational background?

22 A: I have a high school diploma and approximately 40

23 credits at Wilmington University and the Delaware State Police

24 Academy.


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REDIRECT EXAMINATION; OF R. SNIFFEN BY R~ HARDIN 152

1 Q: And are you employed at this time?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: Where do you work?

4 A: The City of Dover Police Department.

5 Q: How long have you been there?

6 A: I've been with the Dover Police Department for three

7 years.

8 Q: Were you employed in law enforcement prior to your

9 term with Dover Police Department?

10 A: Yes, I worked for the Camden Delaware Police

11 Department for six years prior to being employed by Dover.

12 Q: Okay. Currently as an employee of the Dover Police

13 Department do you have a specific task?

14 A: Yes. I'm a detective assigned to the criminal

15 investigation unit.

16 Q: Have you been doing that for the entirety of your

17 time at Dover for three years?

18 A: No, ma'am. I worked patrol a little over two years

19 and I've been a detective since Memorial Day.

20 Q: Okay.

21 A: I was a detective for three years with the Camden

22 Police Department as well.

23 Q: I see. Your office is located right in Dover,

24 Delaware is that correct?


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DIRECT EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 153

1 A: 400 South Queen Street, City of Dover, County of

2 Kent, State of Delaware.

3 Q: Okay. In conjunction with your tasks as a detective

4 in the criminal investigation unit did you have an opportunity

5 to speak with Mr. Kurt Busch?

6 A: Yes I did.

7 Q: How is it that you made contact with Mr. Busch?

8 A: I contacted him via telephone after some allegations

9 were made. He referred me to his attorney. His attorney

10 Rusty Hardin contacted me via telephone. And then we had a

11 meeting at the Dover Police Department with Mr. Busch, Mr.

12 Liguori, Mr. Hardin and Mr. Yarbrough.

13 Q: And who is Mr. Yarbrough, sir?

14 A: He's an investigator for the attorney Rusty Hardin.

15 Q: Okay. Are you familiar with his professional

16 background?

17 A: I believe he worked in law enforcement in Texas. I

18 don't remember his exact.

19 Q: Okay. Specifically do you recall the date that you

20 contacted Kurt Busch?

21 A:

22 Q:

23 attorney?

24 A:

Not off the top of my head. It was early November.

And do you recall the date that you spoke with his

The same day.

Ubiqus/Nation-Wide Rep'orting & Convention Coverage 22 Cortlandt Street- Suite 802, New York, NY 10007

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1 Q: After you spoke with Mr. Hardin you indicated that

2 there was a meeting?

3 A: Yes.

4 Q: ~ ~-,,w:i::th .. .Mr. Busch, Mr. Liguori, Mr. Hardin and Mr.

5 Yarbrough.

6 A: Correct.

7 Q: Do you recall the date of that meeting, sir?

8 A: I believe it was the 18th at approximately 12:45.

9 Q: November 18th?

10 A: Yes, November 18th.

11 Q: 12:45.

12 A: Yes.

13 Q: P.m.?

14 A: Yes.

15 Q: Okay.

16 A: I have the date and time documented. I'm not 100

17 percent on that.

18 Q: Okay. How long did that discussion/meeting take,

19 sir?

20 A: Approximately an hour.

21 Q: Now I take it Mr. Busch was not under arrest, is

22 that correct?

23 A:

24 Q:

No, ma'am.

Did he indicate to you that he knew he was there--


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DIRECT EXAMINATION,OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 155

1 did he indicate to you that he was coming for this meeting

2 voluntarily?

3 A: Yes, he came in voluntarily. When he came with his

4 attorneys.:;::I>a-dvi.sed him that he was not under arrest and he

5 was free to go at any time and he acknowledged that.

6 Q: Did Mr. Hardin remain with Mr. Busch during the

7 entirety of the period of the period that you were together?

8 A: Yes, their whole team did.

9 Q: So everybody was there for the whole hour?

10 A: That's correct. It may or may not have been an

11 hour. I don't remember exactly--approximately. But the whole

12 team was there the whole time Mr. Busch was there. That's

13 correct.

14 Q: Got it. What types of questions did you ask Mr.

15 Busch?

16 A: I asked him about his relationship with Ms. Driscoll

17 and what happened on the night of September 26th.

18 Q: Okay. Did you ask him about any of the period

19 leading up to the night of September 26th?

20 A: I asked him brief background information about their

21 relationship. And then I asked pretty much starting the week

22 prior with the New Hampshire race.

23 Q: And what did he tell you about the week prior with



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1 A: He said·on Sunday after the New Hampshire race I

2 believe they were in the Boston area they had an argument and

3 he ended the relationship and got out of the car. >

4 Q: That he got out of the car.

5 A: That he got out of the car, that he went to get his

6 things out of the trunk and 'Ms. Driscoll sped off. That's

7 what he told me.

8 Q: Okay. Did he indicate to you anything about the

9 condition of the car when he got out?

10 A: He advised that he was upset due to his racing

11 performance and that he broke the mirror off inside the car,

12 the rearview mirror.

13 Q: What were your perceptions of Mr. Busch as he was

14 telling you about breaking the mirror off the car?

15 A: My perceptions?

16 Q: What did you think when you heard that?

17 A: I didn't really form an opinion.

18 Q: Okay. After he told you about breaking the mirror

19 on that particular Sunday, did he provide any other

20 information to you about the next week?

21 A: He said he had little to no contact with Ms.

22 Driscoll between then and Friday at Dover. He wasn't certain

23 but he was pretty sure there was no contact. He advised the

24 night of the 26th he got a text message from her and that he


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DIRECT EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 157

1 did text her back stating that he was laying on the floor

2 crying because he just finished watching Seven Years in Tibet.

3 Q: Okay. Did you know what Seven Years in Tibet was?

4 A: No, but he told it was a movie about a husband who

5 leaves his wife and child and goes and spends his seven years

6 with the Dalai Lama or something along those lines.

7 Q: Did he tell you why he was crying?

8 A: He just said he was upset from the movie.

9 Q: Did he indicate if there was anything else that had

10 upset him that day?

11 A: No he did not.

12 Q: Did he tell you what he did after he watched the

13 movie?

14 A: He said he went to bed.

15 Q: Did he tell you what time he went to bed?

16 A: No. If so, I don't recall.

17 Q: Okay. Let me just say this again, he said he

18 received a text from Patricia and he texted her back correct?

19 A: Yes.

20 Q: Did he then explain that Ms. Driscoll entered the

21 motorhome?

22 A: He advised me that Ms. Driscoll showed up

23 unannounced and uninvited later that evening. Approximately I

24 believe 2200 hours which would be 10:00 p.m.


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DIRECT EXAMINATION:OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 158

1 Q: Okay. Let•me just clarify for the record. Where

2 was he staying on the night of September 26th, 2014?

3 A: In his motorhbme at Dover International Speedway at

4 1131 North Dupont Highway.

5 Q: That's in Kent County also?

6 A: Yes, Dover, Kent County, State of Delaware.

7 Q: Okay. Ms. Driscoll arrived he said at about--

8 A: Approximately 10:00 p.m. he advised she showed up

9 with Houston and entered his motorhome.

10 Q: And who is Houston, sir?

11 A: Houston would be Ms. Driscoll's 9 year old son.

12 Q: Okay. When she arrived did he tell you what he did

13 at that time?

14 A: What Houston did or--?

15 Q: No, I'm sorry. What Mr. Busch did.

16 A: I believe he hugg~d Houston and he was laying in

17 bed.

18 Q: I'm sorry who was in bed?

19 A: Mr. Busch.

20 Q: Mr. Busch.

21 A: Yeah.

22 Q: So he hugged Houston while still in bed? I want to

23 understand your testimony.

24 A: I'm unclear on that at this time. He hugged Houston


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1 and then Houston went out to the living room in the motor

2 coach and was watching TV. And then Mr. Busch was still in

3 bed at that point.

4 Q: He was still in bed at that point?

5 A: Yes.

6 Q: Mr. Busch was still in bed at that point.

7 A: Mr. Busch was in bed, Houston was in the living room

8 watching a movie.

9 Q: Did Mr. Busch tell you how Houston got to the living

10 room?

11 A: The first time, no. If he did I don't recall.

12 There were multiple occurrences of Houston going to the living

13 room per Mr. Busch's statements to me.

14 Q: Okay. Did he say what happened after Houston went

15 to the living room?

16 A: Him and Ms. Driscoll exchanged words. And he stated

17 that she told him that he had to tell Houston that their

18 relationship was over. And that Ms. Driscoll brought Houston

19 back to the bedroom. At that point Mr. Busch said--he told

20 her that it's not the time, this is an adult matter. And he

21 escorted the child back to the living room area.

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

He said that he escorted the child back.

That's what Mr. Busch told me, correct?

Did he describe what clothing he was wearing at that


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time.

A: He said that it was embarrassing that he was

unclothed at the time.

Q: Naked?

A: Yes.

Q: Did he tell you what he did after he took Houston

back to the living room for the second time? Or excuse me,

that he took Houston to the living room.

A: He said he went to get back in the bed but Ms.

Driscoll was standing between the wall and the bed. He

described it as I believe a 12 to 18 inch area. He said he

was trying to squeeze between Ms. Driscoll and the bed to get

in, at which time he cupped her cheeks gently in his hands as

if they were going to kiss and he said you need to leave. And

when he did it, he demonstrated for me, he said you need to

leave and he advised that her head tapped the wall while he

was doing that.

Q: Could you show me again, sir, so that we can see

your hands and make a record of what you're describing.

A: He said that he cupped her cheeks in his hands. I

can't do it to myself that's why I haven't demonstrated. But

the bottoms of his hands were along her jaw bones like this.

And he gently said you need to leave like this, he described

it as if he was going to kiss her is how he was holding her


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1 cheeks and that her head tapped the wall. That's what he told

2 me.

3 Q: Okay.

4 A:. :··::··.And then he said that she called him some names

5 which I don't recall. Those are documented as well. And that

6 she stormed out of the motorhome with Houston and then she

7 said something along the lines that this isn't over.

8 Q: She said this isn't over?

9 A: Per Mr. Busch.

10 Q: Okay.

11 A: I wasn't there.

12 Q: Okay. You said Mr. Busch demonstrated with his

13 hands how he placed them on Ms. Driscoll's face.

14 A: Yes, ma'am. He demonstrated on Mr. Hardin in the

15 interview.

16 Q: Okay.

17 THE COURT: Sir, was anyone else questioning

18 Mr. Busch at the time or was it just you asking

19 questions?

20 A: Just me.

21 THE COURT: Okay thank you.

22 Q: And again so, on Mr. Hardin he placed his hands and

23 did what he described as the manner he used for Ms. Driscoll?

24 A: He said I cupped her cheeks in my hand almost as if


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DIRECT EXAMINAT·ION OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 162

1 we were going to.kiss. I said you need to leave and he

2 motioned his hands like - - :and he said her head tapped the

3 wall when I did that. She called me choice names, grabbed

4 Houston and left. And she stated this isn't over when she was

5 leaving.

6 Q: During the'process of cupping her cheeks and her

7 head tapping the wall, did Mr. Busch indicate if he was

8 standing, sitting, laying down--did he tell you where he was?

9 A: I believe they were standing face to face. He said

10 he was trying to squeeze between her to get in the bed.

11 Q: Okay.

12 A: I was implied that he was standing. He demonstrated

13 it in a standing up position.

14 Q: Did he indicate that he was looking at her?

15 A: Yes, he said he was looking her in the eyes as if

16 they were going to kiss, you need to leave. And her head

17 tapped the wall. There were words exchanged and she departed.

18 Q: Okay. Did he indicate to you any other things

19 happened after Ms. Driscoll departed?

20 A: No, he said he went to bed and she left.

21 Q: Did you discuss any further contact that they had

22 that evening?

23 A: I asked him about a text message that I received

24 when the complaint was filed. We did discuss that.


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DIRECT· EXAMINATION.OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 163

1 Q: And what did he say?

2 A: He did not recall sending that text. His phone was

3 deleted. I guess he had to get a new phone and the messages

4 were gone.

5 Q: I'm sorry where did he tell you his phone was?

6 A: He said he had to get a new phone so his messages

7 were gone from that night.

8 Q: Did he tell you about any further messages into the

9 next week at any time?

10 A: I don't recall, ma'am.

11 Q: How about sometime in October?

12 A: In October?

13 Q: Did he discuss any other messages that he might have

14 sent to Ms. Driscoll in October of 2014?

15 A: I don't believe so. I believe that we said that

16 there was a very brief interaction between the two but I don't

17 recall any specific text messages. I do recall the one that

18 night.

19 Q:

20 A:

21 Q:

22 A:

23 paperwork.

24 Q:

Okay. But he did not recall that text?

He--I don't recall--

[interposing] Or he didn't have it on his text.

I don't recall, ma'am. I'd have to refer back to my

Where is your paperwork at this time, sir? Has it


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1 been handed to the Attorney General's Office?

2 A: Which paperwork?

3 Q: Any reports that you prepared, any of your

4 investigations?

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Q: Okay.

THE COURT: Sir, do you have copies that you

could refer to or refresh your memory if you needed to?

A: I do.

MS. MCNEICE: Your Honor, if I might. Mr.

Wood's testimony under an agreement with the Attorney

General's Office is to be limited to the recorded

interview that he made with Mr. Busch on this particular

day.

MR. HARDIN: I don't think they can make that

kind of agreement - - both sides, Your Honor.

THE COURT: That's--I mean the witness is

called to testify about an incident or about his

involvement in an incident. And I don't think the

Attorney General's Office can govern whether or not the

witness can be questioned about any aspect of that

incident. I mean that may be some agreement between you

and the prosecution or potential prosecution of Mr. Busch

but--


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1 MS. MCNEICE: Okay.

2 THE COURT: -- it's not binding upon these

3 parties here.

4 . MS. MCNEICE: I understand. Sorry.

5 Q: Okay. I just wanted to go over my notes one more

6 time, sir. At the conclusion of your interview which you

7 indicated was roughly an hour, did Mr. Busch then leave your

8 police department?

9 A: Yes he did. I escorted him to the lobby and

10 somebody from Mr. Liguori's staff picked him up.

11 Q: Okay. And did Mr. Liguori and Mr. Hardin leave at

12 that time?

13 A: Shortly thereafter.

14 Q: Okay. And Mr. Yarbrough also?

15 A: Yes.

16 Q: Okay. Have you done any further interviews with

17 Kurt Busch since that day, sir?

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MS. MCNEICE: Nothing further. Thank you.

THE COURT: Mr. Hardin, I'm not really sure

what if anything you folks may want to do in terms of

contacting the Attorney General's Office before cross

examining the witness in order to just make sure that

whatever happens in this proceeding doesn't prejudice Mr.


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Busch in some other way with hi~. I'm willing to give

you a recess, sir, so that you can make an effort to

contact them to ascertain that. Obviously the Court's

mad:e::a·::r.uling that this witness can essentially be asked

anything about his investigation and so--but I am aware

from what people are saying that the Attorney General's

Office is considering the possibility of criminal

prosecution. And I want to give you the chance to confer

with them with regard to anything that you may question

this witness about having some impact on their decision

making. And I don't know that it would or really should.

MR. HARDIN: No, I think that's a fair

observation and I'd like to take the Court up on that

recess.

THE COURT: All right. We'll recess.

MR. HARDIN: Thank you.


[END 436261 20150113-1403 PartS]

[START 436261 20150113-1504 Part6]

THE CLERK: Family Court back in session.

Please be seated.

THE COURT: Good afternoon everyone. Mr.

Hardin, I'm assuming that you've had whatever contact

you've needed to have with the authorities and have


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DIRECT. EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY C. MCNEICE 167

1 resolved whatever issues there may be in that regard.

2 MR. HARDIN: We have, Your Honor.


4 MR. HARDIN: We're not going to ask for a copy

5 of the report at this time.

6 THE COURT: Okay.

7 MR. HARDIN: And we have some agreed areas to

8 cover. But I'll· leave it at that unless the Court wants

9 to inquire further.

10 THE COURT: Yeah, I don't need to know anything

11 further.

12 MR. HARDIN: Okay.



15 Q: Good afternoon.

16 A: Good afternoon, sir.

17 Q: Detective Wood, let's see if we can go over a little

18 bit the series of events connecting everybody here. Do you

19 recall early on me contacting you to discuss and asking for

20 you to interview Kurt before you all do anything?

21 A: Yes, sir.

22 Q: Okay. Wotild it be a fair statement that probably

23 the first time you and I talked is a day or two before the

24 Dover Police Department issued a press release confirming


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1 there was an investigation?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: Do you recall me calling you concerned about that

· 4 and asking that before you reached any decisions one way or

5 the other we wanted to give you an opportunity to interview

6 Mr. Busch?


8 Q: Would you agree that our dealings over the next week

9 or two were trying to schedule that kind of interview at our

10 request to come in and talk to you?

11 A: Yes. We scheduled one but Mr. Busch couldn't make

12 it so it was rescheduled for the following week.

13 Q: And in fact that the rescheduling might even had to

14 do partly with my schedule too as well. Did it not? Do you

15 remember--it doesn't matter.

16 A: It wasn't rescheduled through myself. It was

17 rescheduled through another party at my police station so I'm

18 not sure of the particulars.

19 Q: Fair enough. But would you agree that it is a fair

20 characterization that from the first time Mr. Busch and his

21 representatives found out about your investigation, we did

22 everything we could to cooperate with you?

23 A:

24 Q:

Yes, you were cooperative.

And I believe you have said that you have been a


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· CROSS EXAMINATION. OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN 169

1 police officer now:·for a total of 11 years is that right?

2 A: 9 years.

3 Q: 9 years. 3 here and 6 in Camden.


5 Q: When we came in fqr the interview, did we impose any

6 conditions on the interview at all?

7 A: No you did not.

8 Q: Were you free to ask him about anything you wanted

9 to without objection from us?

10 A: Yes.

11 Q: During the interview, though we were present through

12 the entire time, did we ever object to any line of questioning

13 you had?

14 A: No.

15 Q: Did we ever try to stop him from answering or mold

16 his answers ln any way?

17 A: No.

18 Q: Were you able to ask him everything you wanted to

19 ask him and that you were interested in?

20 A: Yes.

21 Q: And did he consciously after you warned him that he

22 wasn't under arrest· and didn't have to talk to you, did he

23 affirmatively tell you he realized that but he was willing to

24 be interviewed?

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CROSS EXAMINATION OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN 170

1 A: Yes.

2 Q: He could of course, as you well know, have taken the

3 fifth and refused to be interviewed correct?


5 Q: And a lot of times in your investigations that's

6 what happened isn't it?

7 A: I don't know if I would say a lot, sometimes yes.

8 Q: Okay. Now when this interview--by the way was this

9 interview videotaped?

10 A: Yes it was.

11 Q: Okay. So when we sat in that room would there had

12 been somebody on the other side of the interview room watching

13 as well?

14 A: There's somebody on the monitor watching it, yes.

15 Q: Okay.

16 A: It's not like a two-way glass or anything. They

17 were watching it on a monitor.

18 Q: I got you. All right. And after the interview for

19 whatever time you think it originally took, did you leave for

20 awhile to consult with anyone? And if you don't remember

21 that's fine.

22 A: I don't believe I consulted with anyone. I went and

23 got Mr. Welch for you guys to speak with.

24 Q: All right. Now during that interview you asked Mr.


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1 Busch about and showed him a screenshot of a text, is that

2 right?

3 A: I believe so, yes.

4 Q: And do you recall whether that text you showed him

5 was one that had been provided to you by Ms. Driscoll?


7 Q: And that text was a text the night, was it not, of

8 the alleged altercation--whatever one wants to call it.

9 A: Yes.

10 Q: Okay. And I believe you said he looked at it and he

11 didn't remember it because it's not one that he still had?

12 A: I asked him about it and he didn't remember it. I

13 believe I showed it to him and he said yeah I must have sent

14 that.

15 Q: And so that the Commissioner's aware--most of the

16 evidence, what all these things are, that was the text message

17 was it not in which he talked about the child custody and his

18 willing to help with that if--

19 A: [interposing] This is--from my memory, it's not

20 verbatim.

21 Q: Okay.

22 A: It said something along the lines if you want me to

23 help you with your child custody shit you need to agree with

24 the terms of our split.


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CROSS EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN 172

1 Q: That's actually the way you always interpreted it

2 wasn't it that that's·what it was, correct? The explanation

3 you gave is the way you interpreted the language to mean?

4 A:· . :I-· believe so, yes.

5 Q: Okay. Okay. And you actually asked him about that

6 during the interview didn't you?

7 A: Yes.

8 Q: Okay. Now did you show him any other text in that

9 interview?

10 A: I don't recall, sir. I have pages and pages and

11 pages of text messages from numerous parties.

12 Q: All right. Now we actually brought a bunch of stuff

13 with us did we not?

14 A: Yes, you brought you own binder, which I have a copy

15 of that with me as well.

16 Q: You have that here is that correct?

17 A: Yes.

18 Q: Have you shown anything in your file or in that

19 binder to Ms. Driscoll or any of her representatives?

20 A: No.

21 Q: All right. So as to these binders here are we are

22 equal footing. I mean one being one we provided you, but the

23 other binder does that contain your reports that are sitting

24 here?


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1 A: Yes.

2 Q: Have you shown either side anything in your binder?

3 A: No I have not.

4 Q: All right.

5 A: The one binder was made by the defense. The only

6 person that's reviewed it is me, maybe my supervisor and the

7 Attorney General's Office. It has not been shared with Ms.

8 Driscoll or Ms. McNeice.

9 Q: Okay. I'm going to ask you--and I'm not going try

10 to go in our own binder, but obviously I'm going to give you

11 that binder, ask you to look and follow with me and I'm going

12 to read you a list of names and see if those are people we've

13 provided you interviews on. Are you with me? Or people that

14 we had interviewed.

15 A: Okay.

16 Q: All I want you to do is confirm that those are

17 people that we provided you.

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MS. MCNEICE: I'd suggest, Your Honor, that

that is irrelevant. Mr. Wood is here to testify about

what Mr. Busch said to him on a particular day in a

voluntary interview. He's provided that testimony. I

would suggest that reviewing a list of other people he

may or may not have interviewed is beyond the scope of

direct and is not relevant.


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CROSS EXAMINATION'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN 174

MR. HARDIN: She's misunderstanding. I'm not

asking him who he has interviewed. I'm asking who we

provided interview reports of--our own interviews.

THE COURT: So the question is asking the

Officer--

MR. HARDIN: The level of cooperation, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. Is it going to be the names

of witnesses that the defense provided to the police?

MR. HARDIN: It's not just names of witnesses.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. HARDIN: We actually--the only time in my

career, provided him our own work product interviews of

those people for him to look at and then use however he

wants. Whether he wanted to go talk to them, verify the

language as so. I really want to show--this is all

discovery with the State's Attorney's Office too.

THE COURT: Okay. Ms. McNeice?

MS. MCNEICE: Again I believe it's beyond the

scope of direct. And no one has indicated or implied in

any manner that Mr. Busch did not fully cooperate with

the interview, that his attorneys did not fully

cooperate, that they would have provided whatever

information that they had. It just doesn't seem to be


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1 relevant at this·'time to the information that Mr. Wood

2 related today regarding his interview with Mr. Busch.

3 And I would suggest that it's also a waste of time.

4 THE COURT: Well it's likely beyond the scope

5 of direct but I mean--and we're sort of in rebuttal at

6 this point so Mr. Hardin's kind of left out if I don't

7 let him question him about it because he can't call him

8 himself unless I allow him surrebuttal. Mr. Hardin, I'll

9 give you some leeway with regard to this. Hopefully

10 there's not like a ton of stuff in that binder that's

11 going to take us all day t6 ask the Officer--

12 MR. HARDIN: Actually, I think my questions

13 will take less than five minutes.

14 THE COURT: Okay. I'll let you go.

15 Q: Is there an index in there at the beginning?

16 A: Yes, sir.

17 Q: Now we've provided you our own version of the

18 timeline as to the sequence of events did we not?


20 Q: Okay. And then after that we provided you an index

21 with people and we provided you the actual work product we

22 did, did we not? Of people to interview.

23 A:

24 Q:

That's correct.

And we indicated to you, did we not, that we had by


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1 phone or in person indicated these people and we urged you to

2 talk to them, is that correct?

3 A: Yes. And I believe your notes from the interviews

4 are included with each.

5 Q: Yes. Let me ask you, in your 9 years have you ever

6 had the defense turn over to you their own in-house

7 interviews?

8 A: No.

9 Q: All right. Would it be a fair statement that in 9

10 years you've been a police officer you have never been

11 provided with the investigation by the defense in terms of

12 their own write up with interviews they did, is that right?

13 A: That's correct, I have not.

14 Q: Okay. And so I have written here 17 names real

15 quickly. I will ask you if these names are names of people we

16 included interviews whether they were by phone or in person

17 with. Erica Anderson is that right?

18 A: I don't recall that name.

19 Q: Okay if I think you keep looking you'll find it.

20 But let's keep going real quickly and I'll see which ones you

21 don't have. Matthew Bullard?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Yes.

Todd Barrier [phonetic]?

No.


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1 Q: Ross Blankenship?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: Mindy Bullard?

4 A: .It's not in this book but yes, I exchanged emails in

5 reference to that with Mr. Yarbrough.

6 Q: Okay. And did you exchange emails with Mr.

7 Yarbrough concerning that about Mr. Barrier too? Do you

8 recall?

9 A: It's quite possible we exchanged the email - -.

10 Q: And so that the Commissioner's clear, after this

11 interview we continued to provide you names of people is that

12 correct?

13 A: Yes, that's correct.

14 Q: And we continued to provide you names of people for

15 you to interview and sometimes the work product of what they

16 already told us.


18 Q: Okay. Luke and Cherish Burt?

19 A: Yes.

20 Q: And interview regarding Mr. Chikito [phonetic],

21 Gilbert Chikito. If that rings a bell, her first husband.

22 Does that ring a bell. And if it doesn't, I don't--

23 A:

24 Q:

No, it may have been in an email.

All right. Christy Clarier, assistant for Mr.


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1 Busch?

2 A: Yes.

3 Q: Michael Domcheff, his driver?

4 A: .. Ye.s.

5 Q: Richard Fike?

6 A: I don't recall that one but it may have been in an

7 email as well.

8 Q: Fair enough. Tanya Finch?

9 A: Same thing.

10 Q: All right. Do you recall us recommending you

11 talking Mr. Hermanstorfer?

12 A: Yes.

13 Q: All right. Jeanette Parker?

14 A: I believe that may have been in an email after the

15 initial interview.

16 Q: Okay. And Richard Sniffen, Richard Andrew Sniffen?

17 A: Yes I recall that one.

18 Q: And Mr. Nick Terry?

19 A: Yes.

20 Q: Okay. Now I'm not asking you at this time which

21 ones of these people you went out and actually interviewed.

22 Really my line of questioning is designed to ask you about

23 what we provided you and continue to provide you after the

24 meeting. Would it be a fair statement that up until you


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CROSS EXAMINATI"ON'OF J. WOODS BY R. HARDIN 179

' 1 concluded your investigation and made whatever

2 recommendations, if you've made any, to the State's Attorney's

3 Office--and I'm not asking you what that is. But up until

4 that time whenever you completed your investigation, did we

5 continue to provide you names of people and sometimes copies

6 of interviews we had done with them?

7 A: Yes. I believe I received correspondence with Mr.

8 Yarbrough as recently as last week or the week before.

9 Q: Okay. Thanks a bunch. Now I want to ask you just a

10 couple of other questions. I'm not asking you at this time or

11 take the time in what Ms. Driscoll said to you, how many times

12 though did you interview her? Did you interview her just

13 once?

14 No. A:

15 How many times did you interview her? Q:

A:

17 Let's do first in person then secondly by phone or Q:

18 text.

19 A:

20 Q:

21 A:

22 Q:

23 A:

24 Q:

Probably twice.

Okay. In person.

Yeah.

And then what about by phone or by text?

I never exchanged text messages with her at all.

Okay.


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1 A: She would send me :emails from her work email to my

2 work email.

3 Q: Okay. And how often has that gone on?

4 A: I couldn't tell you. Probably 20, 25 times.

5 Q: Okay. And then in addition to that I believe we

6 have in evidence before the Judge the complaint that she filed

7 that this Commissioner is considering. What was the sequence

8 as to how that was prepared or done or signed, whatever, in

9 connection with also the complaint and report to you?

10 A: Ms. McNeice was filling out the PFA paperwork while

11 I was interviewing Ms. Driscoll initially.

12 Q: Was she doing it in your presence?

13 A: I was talking Ms. Driscoll, she was sitting on the

14 other side. I didn't discuss it with her. She filled it out

15 at the table in the same room if that's what you're asking.

16 Q: Oh okay. So does the complaint that the

17 Commissioner has before him, was that actually prepared at

18 that time she was being interviewed by you? Prepared by her

19 lawyer?

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MS. MCNEICE: Objection. I'm not sure that

it's relevant to anything. And the Court has the

complaint in front of it with the various items

mentioned.

THE COURT: So did you actually see the final


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1 product of the PFA petition after Ms. McNeice prepared

2 it?

3 A: I didn't see that until--

4 Q: Would you like your own file?

5 A: No, it's not in there.

6 THE COURT: I guess my question to you, sir, is

7 do you know whether or.not the document that you saw Ms.

8 McNeice preparing is the one that ended up getting filed

9 in the Court?

10 A: I don't recall seeing the completed document.

11 THE COURT: Okay.

12 A: She was filing it out sitting at the table and she

13 said it was a PFA and that she was going to go file it.

14 THE COURT: Okay.

15 Q: And actually do you recall telling me--was it signed

16 in your presence?


18 Q: Do you recall whether or not at one time whether or

19 not you told me that it was when we were talking?

20 A: She may have signed it. There was a lot going on.

21 I was interviewing trying to get a vast amount of information.

22 It was recorded, her interview was recorded as well when she

23 signed it so--

24 Q: So we'll know that. So her interview was recorded


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1 and she signed the interview or what did you mean when you

2 said she signed it? In other words there is a video of her

3 giving her statement is that what you're saying?

4 A:·.. ..M.s •. Driscoll's interview was recorded as well as Mr.

5 Busch's in the same manner on a DVR system.

6 Q: All right. I'm not asking you for it. I'm just

7 trying to make sure I know what there is.

8 A: Right.

9 Q: And are you saying that while that interview was

10 being conducted by you, her lawyer was preparing what her

11 lawyer told you--

12 A: [interposing] She was handwriting a document what

13 she told me was a PFA.

14 Q: Got you. All right.

15 A: I don't remember if they actually signed it in front

16 of me or not. It would be on the video.

17 Q: Okay. And do you recall whether they said after

18 your interview with her that she was going over to file it?

19 A: They ~ere coming to Kent County Family Court.

20 Q: Okay. Now during this time how long would you

21 estimate your interview of her was?

22 A:

23 Q:

24 A:

Again approximately an hour, I don't recall exactly.

Okay.

The video would document the exact amount of time.


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1 Q: I want to go back and refresh your memory about one

2 thing. And ask you if you would--and I promise you I'm not

3 going to ask to see it as I'm entitled to after you do it.

4 But I j us.t.::w.an.t ~to refresh your memory. Would it help for you

5 to look at your notes or anything of Mr. Busch to determine--

6 to refresh your memory as to what he told you about the first

7 moving Houston to the front? Are you with me?

8 A: I would have to watch the interview.

9 Q: You don't have anything in your file that would tell

10 you?

11 A: Not how many times he walked to the front. Just

12 about the alleged incident.

13 Q: Yes. So let me ask you if the following does

14 refresh your memory and if it doesn't just tell me it doesn't.

15 Okay? Do you recall Mr. Busch in your interview saying that

16 when she showed up with Houston and said what she said

17 initially that he said that was inappropriate to discuss in

18 front of Houston and that he took Houston to the front and set

19 him down on the TV, came back to the bedroom and shut the door

20 for them to talk the first time. Does that ring any bell as

21 you sit there now?

22 A: I don't remember his exact words. I remember that

23 he discussed him taking to the front of the motorhome multiple

24 times.


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1 Q: Okay.

2 A: And I remember him saying that he was naked.

3 Q: Okay. So you do remember him saying that he took

4 him up multiple times?

5 A: Yes.

6 Q: Okay. What you don't remember is whether it was the

7 first time, you know, or the second time--how many did you

8 understand that Houston had to be taken back up to the front?

9 A: At least twice.

10 Q: Okay. And do you recall him telling you that after

11 the first time she went and got Houston and wanted him to tell

12 Houston it was over?

13 A: That's what Mr. Busch told me, correct?

14 Q: Right. And that's all we're talking about.

15 A: Yes.

16 Q: I'm not asking you to weigh in on what did or didn't

17 happen but only what he told you.

18 A: And he said he took him back up front and that he

19 was naked and that he was uncomfortable because it's not his

20 birth child.

21 Q: Right, okay.

22

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MR. HARDIN: Just a moment, Judge.

THE COURT: All right.

MR. HARDIN: That's all I have, Judge.


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THE COURT: Okay. Ms. McNeice?

MS. MCNEICE: I might just look through one,

two minutes here.

THE COURT: All right.

MS. MCNEICE: I have nothing further, Your

Honor.

THE COURT: Okay. I'm assuming that everyone

is content with the Detective being excused?

MS. MCNEICE: Yes, Your Honor.

MR. HARDIN: Certainly as far as we're

concerned.

THE COURT: Okay. Detective, your excused with

the Court's thanks.

OFC. WOOD: Thank you, Your Honor.

THE COURT: All right. Ms. McNeice?

MS. MCNEICE: I have nothing further, thank

you.

THE COURT: Okay. All right, counsel, it is

3:30. How does counsel wish to proceed as it related to

summation?

MR. LIGUORI: Your Honor, respectfully I'd ask

you this, we've been here four days.

THE COURT: Uh-huh.

MR. LIGUORI: Would the Court consider


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.PROCEEDINGS 186

simultaneous written summations within 10 days. You know

you gave us a break with regard to the Christmas time,

there were no issues about that. There is a whole wealth

of information that we .need to regurgitate so to speak.

And I'm wondering if you would give us 10 days

simultaneous summations, no more than half a dozen, 8

pages.

THE COURT: All right. Ms. McNeice, what's Ms.

Driscoll's position as it relates to that proposal?

MS. MCNEICE: Well certainly, Your Honor, I

think she would like to have the matter concluded today.

I appreciate that there is an awful lot of evidence to go

through. I understand that not only the Court wants to

have a good feeling for what happened that night plus all

of the surrounding stuff. And I would suggest that the

Court could probably make the determination today without

closing but I appreciate you want to give the defendant

whatever opportunity--

MR. LIGUORI: [interposing] Well he's not a

defendant.

THE COURT: I got it.

MS. MCNEICE: Excuse me. I apologize,

respondent, whatever.

THE COURT: Well here's my though on the


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PROCEEDINGS 187

matter. I don't have a problem with the parties filing

written submissions to the Court. I think there is

obviously a fairly large volume of evidence that I would

have to.consider even if the parties summed up today.

And so the likelihood is that I wouldn't be in a position

to provide the parties with a decision today even if the

parties did sum up in front of me this afternoon.

There's a great deal that I need to go over. One of the

issues that I think--I suppose in advance of summation

that I wanted to direct to the party's attention is I

have the evidence obviously, it's represented. And part

of this proceeding has been transcribed. The most remote

part of the proceeding has been transcribed. But thus

far the most recent two days of the proceeding have not

been transcribed. And so that presents an issue for the

Court with regard to whether or not prior to deciding the

matter, the Court should review the transcript that is

present in the Court's file. Because obviously that's a

verbatim transcript of part of the proceeding but the

Court doesn't as yet have a verbatim transcript of the

remainder of the proceeding. I have obviously taken

notes during the proceeding and so I have those that I

can refer to. But I don't want to conduct my

deliberations in a manner that would unduly emphasize one


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PROCEEDINGS 188

portion of the testimony over any other.

MR. LIGUORI: Your Honor, respectfully, for

completeness purposes we will again ask for and pay for,

as ".W:e::,rciid ... l.ast time, the expedited transcripts. They

were given to us within a week.

THE COURT: Okay.

MR. LIGUORI: Right, Kim?

MS. KIM: It was about two weeks I guess.

MR. LIGUORI: We would ask--we want you to have

the full picture, we will again pay for that and have you

had the opportunity to review that.

THE COURT: All right. And that's fine. I

mean I wouldn't necessarily want to review half a

transcript and not sort of have that verbatim and then I

have the rest of it verbatim.

MR. LIGUORI: We understand.

THE COURT: And so--all right. If that's going

to take place then I don't have a problem. If it's not

sort of ready for the Court in time for me to complete my

deliberations then I'll simply avoid reviewing the

transcript be I don't want to review part of the

transcript.

MR. LIGUORI: Well, Your Honor, do you think

then that maybe we should find out in an expedited


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PROCEEDINGS 189

fashion two weeks and then consider February 12th, 13th,

something like that for summations due?

THE COURT: Well I don't have a problem with

the parties just simply doing their summations. And then

I'll just deal with whether the transcript is available

or not. I can decide from my notes and my recollections,

you know I've been paying fairly close attention to the

testimony as it's happened and I have taken notes. And

if the transcripts available certainly I would review it.

If the complete transcript is not available at the time

when I need to decide then I will not review any of the

transcripts.

MR. LIGUORI: Well what date do you want to

give us then, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I think we talked about 10 days, 2

weeks for written summations and then the Court will

decide to that.

MS. MCNEICE: Can we set a time then. Would it

be 2 weeks?

MR. HARDIN: That's fine. 2 weeks is fine.

MS. MCNEICE: 2 weeks that's fine.

THE COURT: Okay. So 2 weeks written

summations. And then the next thing that we're going to

need to make a determination with regard to is how we go


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·PROCEEDINGS 190

about de1ivery,of the Court's decision. If the Court

enters an order on the PFA application most of the time

the parties are present when that happens in order that

we can personally serve the parties and particularly the

respondent with the PFA order. And so I'll hear from the

parties with regard to how they would prefer that process

to take place.

MS. MCNEICE: As part of our closing we could--

THE COURT: Well in terms of the delivery of

the Court's decision is what I'm talking about.

MS. MCNEICE: I understand.

THE COURT: Ordinarily like I said the parties

are--the Courts convened and the parties are present and

the Court delivers it decision. I don't have a problem

with doing it otherwise but we do need to make

arrangements for any order that's entered to be provided

to the parties and to be served on Mr. Busch if there's

an order that comes out of the Court's deliberation. So

I'll hear the party's positions in regards to how they

wish to do that.

MR. LIGUORI: Counsel will be in his stead, we

will accept it and immediately transmit it to him.

THE COURT: Ms. McNeice, is Ms. Driscoll--is

that acceptable to Ms. Driscoll? I'll give you time to

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PROCEEDINGS 191

talk to her· if that's the case to have simply--rather

than have this matter scheduled for a date and time for

the Court to deliver a decision sometime subsequent to

the written summations, simply having the Court deliver

its decision in this case. Which would likely in this

case since there's been this volume of testimony over

this amount of time, be a written opinion in addition to

a PFA order, there would likely be a supplemental

disposition that would be referenced. Although the terms

and conditions of any order would be stated in the PFA

order itself that any written supplemental disposition

would simply be for the purposes of- - the Court's

reasoning.

MS. MCNEICE: You may absolutely provide it me

along with any supplemental comments and I'll make sure

that Ms. Driscoll has all the copy or copies that she may

need in whatever form the Court wishes for her--

THE COURT: And more importantly is it

acceptable to you for the Court to--if there's an order

that results from this proceeding, serve Mr. Busch by

providing that order to his local counsel who will then

provide it to him?

MS. MCNEICE: Oh, I have no problem with that.

THE COURT: Okay, all right. Then that's the


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PROCEEDINGS

way we'll proceed then.

recess.

MR. LIGUORI: : Have a nice day.

THE COURT: All right. Thank you.



[END OF HEARING]


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192

Court in

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C E R T I F I C A T E

I, Louisa Rettler, certify that the foregoing transcript of

proceedings . .i.n",.t.J:;l,e Family Court of the State of Delaware, . •' ~... . .- .

County of Kent, in the matter of Patricia P. Driscoll v. Kurt

T. Busch, File No. CK14-02747, Petition No. 14-30621, was

prepared using the required transcription equipment and is a

true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Signature:

Date: January 20, 2015


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driscoll vs. busch, jan. 13, 2015

Documents

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