![Page 1: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/1.jpg)
© The Bulletproof Executive 2013
Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden”
Bulletproof Radio podcast #305
![Page 2: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/2.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
2
Warning and Disclaimer
The statements in this report have not been evaluated by the FDA (U.S. Food & Drug Administration). Information provided here and products sold on bulletproofexec.com and/or upgradedself.com and/or betterbabybook.com are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. The information provided by these sites and/or by this report is not a substitute for a face-to-face consultation with your physician, and should not be construed as medical advice of any sort. It is a list of resources for further self-research and work with your physician. We certify that at least one statement on the above-mentioned web sites and/or in this report is wrong. By using any of this information, or reading it, you are accepting responsibility for your own health and health decisions and expressly release The Bulletproof Executive and its employees, partners, and vendors from from any and all liability whatsoever, including that arising from negligence. Do not run with scissors. Hot drinks may be hot and burn you.
If you do not agree to the above conditions, please do not read further and delete this document.
![Page 3: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/3.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
3
Announcer: BulletproofRadio,astageofhighperformance.
Dave: Hey,it'sDaveAspreywithBulletproofRadio.Today’scoolfactofthe
dayisthatthere’syetanotherreasontoeatmorefat.Atypicaladultlikeyouandmehasabout50billionfatcells.Therearemorefatcellsinasinglehumanbodythantherearefatpeopleonourplanetandthat’sacoolfact.
Believeitornot,flowersdomakepeoplehappy.Thewaytheysmellwhentheysmellfreshflowersandthewaytheylookwiththeircolorsandthingslikethatdobringabitofnatureoutside.I’mactuallyafanofflowers.IbuyflowersforDr.Lanaonaregularbasis.ThefactofthematteriswhenItravel,Iliketodoitevenmore.Theproblemisthatit’sapainintheasstogetflowers.It’sanexperienceIdon’treallyenjoy.
Infact,Dr.Lana,ifyou’relistening,Iactuallyhavemyexecutiveassistanthelpmebuyflowersbecauseit’ssodamncomplexwhichiswhyIwasprettyhappywhenBouqsreachedoutandsaid,“Hey,Dave.Checkthisstuffoutbecausetheseareflowersthatarereally,reallygoodlooking.”They’regrownatecofriendlyfarmsseriouslyonasideofavolcanoinQuito,Ecuador.”IlikevolcanoesbecauseourcoffeeisgrowninGuatemalaonthesideofavolcano,andthebloomsarelarger,andthecolorsaremorevibrantthanyou’reusedtogettingatyourlocalflorist.It’sbettersoil,moresun.It’sgrownat10,000feet.Withflowerslikethisonyourlove’sdesk,it’sgameover.Whatifanotherguy’sflowershaveasillyplushteddybearhuggingthevase?ThatbearwillcowerinadarkdeskdraweronceitseestheBouqsfloweryousent.
“What’sallthesegorgeousnessgoingtosetyouback?”youmightask.Notmuch.That’stheotherthingIlikeaboutthisbecauseregularflowersequalshappywifeanditstartsatamere40bucks.40buckswiththeseguysmeans40bucks,asinnot$68whichiswhattypicallyhappenswhenyoubuy$40flowersandtheyaddabunchofweirdfeesonthere.Infact,it’ssoannoyingthatItrytorunscreamingfromit.I
![Page 4: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/4.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
4
couldactuallyordertheseflowersallbymyself.There’snoupcharges,noextrafees.EventhedeliveryisfreewhenyouregisterwiththeBouqs.
Ifyou’relisteningtoBulletproofRadiowhichyou’redoingbecauseyou’rehearingmerightnow,youget20%offthebouquetofyourchoice.Thatwillsaveyouatleast8bucksrightnow.Justgotobouqs.comandenterthepromocode“bullet.”That’sB-O-U-Q-S-dot-com,promocodebullet.Bouqs.com,promocodebullet.It’sjustbouquet,getridofthe“uet,”andaddanS,bouqs.com.It’sactuallyreallycool.
Today’sshowmightbeaboutfat.Idon’tknowifItelegraphedthatwellenoughforyoubutourguestisJonnyBowdenPhD,whoisknownastheNutritionMythbuster.He’saboard-certifiednutritionist.YoumighthaveseenhimonDr.Oz,FoxNews,CNN,MSNBC,andalltheotherthree-letterentitiesthatJonnyandIhaveprobablyappearedonandlotsoftheotherguestsonthisshow.I’vealsoseenhiswritingintheNewYorkTimes,DailyBiz,Men’sHealth,andplaceslikethat.He’swrittenactually15booksincludingoneyoumayhaveheardaboutcalledTheGreatCholesterolMythwhichwasco-authoredwithStephenSinatra,awell-knowncardiologistwho’soneofthefirstbigcardiologistvoicessaying,“Dude,eatmorefat.”
Jonny’slatestbookandtheonewe’regoingtotalkabouttodaywasco-authoredwithaverywell-knownphysiciannamedStevenMasleyandthebookiscalledSmartFat:EatMoreFat.LoseMoreWeight.GetHealthyNowpublishedbyHarperOne.Now,youmightnoticethatthere’sasimilaritybetweenwhatyou’vereadaboutintheBulletproofDietandwhatyoureadaboutinSmartFat.That’sbecauseeatingmorefatworks.Therearelotsofnuancesandlotsofthingsyoucando.
IlovetobringguyslikeJonnyontheshowtotalkaboutwhattheydidandwhyitworksbecauseunderstandingthatthereisascience,understandingthatit’snotjustalonevoice.It’sawholecommunityofpeoplewhoarehealthprofessionalsorpeoplelikemewhoareunlicensedbiohackerswhojustlookatwhatworks.Whatwe’re
![Page 5: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/5.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
5
findingisthatwekickmoreasswhenweeatmorefat,andthat’sjusthowitis,anditdoesn’tmatterhowmanylowfatshaky,weakpeoplearetellingusthatwe’regoingtodiethatwedon’tlooklikewe’regoingtodie,wedon’tfeellikewe’regoingtodie,ourlabsdon’tlooklikewe’regoingtodie,butbasically,itworks.Jonny,welcometotheshow.
Jonny: Thankyou.
Dave: Thanksforshoutingoutthatthisstuffworks.
Jonny: Thankyousomuch.Ontheroofagain,whenIfirstheardofBulletproof,Iwasactuallyspeakinginaconferenceandyouguyswereexhibiting.IhadnotyetheardofBulletproofCoffeeandasked,“Whatisthisstuff?”Then,youexplainedittome.Youputsomebutterinthecoffee.Igo,“God,thisisexactlywhatI’vebeenbelievinginforthelast15yearsI’vebeentalkingaboutit.Thisisgreat.”I’vealwayshadfoundthatsamesynergyyou’retalkingaboutwhenyoumeetlikemindedspiritswhowouldcometothesameconclusion,readtheresearchinthesameway,trieditintheirownlives,andthenyoufind,“I’mnottheonlyonewho’sbeensayingit.”That’sverynicestill.Thankyouforyourdoingwiththataswell.
Dave: You’resowelcome,Jonny.Inthedarkearlydaysofthisfactthing…
Jonny: Thedarkdays.
Dave: …wehadGaryTaubesjustwroteGoodCalories,BadCalories,averyfamousbook.Forpeoplelisteningwhohaven’treadit,it’stheonlybookI’veeverseenthat’sabout500pageswithoutonewastedword.Everypageisfulloffactsandthisincrediblestorywoveninabouthowweweredeceivedintobelievingthatalowfatdietisanappropriatethingforhumanstodo.Itactuallyisforshortperiodsoftimeforspecificbiologicalreasons,butifyoutryandliveonalowfatdiet,yourlifeisgoingtosuck.That’swhatitcomesdownto.
Jonny: Prettymuch.Prettymuch.Iwasatruebelieverinthat,Dave.Idon’tknowifIevertoldyoumybackgroundstorybutwhenIgotintothe
![Page 6: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/6.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
6
fieldin1990,itwasalllowfatdietsandaerobicexercise.IstartedasatrainerattheEquinoxFitnessClubs.Weusedthetoolswehad,thefoodpyramid,thestepclasses,aerobics,andtheworstpartofitiswewouldtraintoactuallybelievethatifouroverweightclientsweren’tlosingweight,theywereprobablylyingbecauseweknewthisworked.Weknew.Iftheywereeatingthose…
Dave: Iwasoneofthem.Iwasthat300-poundguywhoworkedoutsixdaysaweekandnoonebelievedme.I’mlike,“Areyoukidding.I’llshowyoumylogs.”
Jonny: Thisisexactlywhatpeoplebelievebecauseit’ssointerestinghowthemindworkslikethat,whenyouhaveabelief.Believeme,thebeliefinlowfatislikeareligiousbelief.It’simpervioustoevidence.Thepeoplewhobelieveitjustwon’tseeanythingthatcontradictsit.Whenyouhaveabeliefthatstrongandtheevidencedoesn’tsupportit,youhavetofindsomethingwrongwiththeevidence.
Whenpeopleweredoingthelowfatdiet,andtaking25stepclassesaday,andnotlosingweight,wehadtothink,“Somethingiswronghere.”Itcan’tbethattheadvicewe’regivingthemiswrongbecauseweknowthatthatisinfallible.Itmustbethatthey’reeithercheatingorthey’renottellingustochoose,anditreallywindsupblamingthevictimbecausethislowfatthingwasthebiggestnutritionalexperimentinhistory.It’samassivefailure.Itdoesn’tworklogically.Itdoesn’tmakesense.Itdoesn’tpassthesmelltest.Ourcavemanancestorsdidn’teatlowfatbullymammoths.Nosocietyonearthhaslivedonalowfat,ornoprotein,ornofatdietever,andyet,wecontinuetoproselytizeforit.
TherearedoctorsinAmericarightnowwhoaregoingineverytalkshowinthecountrytellingpeopleweshouldhavestatindrugsinthewatersupply,andvitaminsjustgiveyouexpensiveurine,andweshouldallbeeatinglowfat.Thoseseemtobethemantrasthattheestablishmentstillembraces.AsyouandIknow,notonlyisitnottrue,it’sverydisruptive,andit’spartofexactlywhythiscountryisfat,sick,tired,anddepressed.
![Page 7: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/7.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
7
Dave: Someofmyfavoritedetractorssaythingslike,“Itdoesn’twork
becauseitcan’twork.Therefore,itdidn’thappen.”It’sjustbizarre,internal,pretzellogic.Oneofmyfavoriteonesis,“Dave,youneverweighed300pounds.”I’mlike,“There’sapictureofmewhenI’m23inEntrepreneurMagazineandmyfaceisthisbig.”Ievenlookedthesame.Itwaspublished,Idon’tknow,abouthalfamillioncopies,howevermuchthecirculationis.I’mlike,“Idon’tknowhowyoumakethatup.”
Theideathatyoucangofromthattofit,andtodoitwithbutterinsteadofbeatingyourselfuponatreadmill,I’mgratefulthatsuchthingsexist.Thefactthatthere’sachorusofvoicesnowwhoarejuststandingupandsaying,“Youknowwhat,screwthatnoise,”iscool,butwhatIwanttoknowiswhenyouwerethattraineratEquinoxFitnesstellingthefatpeoplethattheywerelyingwhichyouprobablydid…
Jonny: Wedidn’ttellthemthatbutthat’swhatwebelieved.
Dave: Yeah,andlike,“Youjustneedtotryharder.”Myfavoriteis,“Tryharder.It’slike,“I’mputtingeveryounceofenergyIhave.Whatdoyoumeantryharder?I’mpoundingsand,”butwhatwastheonethingthathappenedthatmadeyougo,“Waitaminute.”Whenwasthefirsttimeyourealized,“Wait,thisfatthingmatters.”
Jonny: Twothingshappened.Thefirstwasthatintheearly‘90s,Dr.Atkinshadabehindthescenes.Hefirstpublishedhisveryfirstbook,TheNewDietRevolution,in1972buttherewereacoupleofeditionsafterthat.WhenIgotinthefieldin1998,itwasstartingtogetsomebuzzagainandtherewerestartingtobesomeresearchaboutit.Now,we,thetruebelieversinlowfatandaerobicexercise,it’sallaboutcalories,caloriesin,caloriesout,that’swhatyougetthat,you’reeatingtoomanycalories,thatbeliefsystemobviously,wedidnotbelieveinAtkins.
Wewouldhaveclients,andIrememberoneinparticular,butwehaveclientswhodideverythingwetoldthemjustlikeyoudid,anditdidn’t
![Page 8: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/8.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
8
work,andagainstouradvice,they’dgoonAtkins.Whatwewouldsay,allofus,thecollectivetrainerbodywouldsay,“Youcan’tdothat.Look,youmightloseapoundortwobutyou’regoingtogetaheartattack.What’sgoingtohappenwithallthatsaturatedfat?Yourcholesterolisgoingtogoup.You’regoingtodie.”
Dave: Stoptheinsanity,theshowwehadrightthen.
Jonny: Stoptheinsanity.Remember,Ishowapictureofherinmyslidepresentation.Whatwouldhappenisthey’ddoitagainstourwishesandagainstouradvice,thenthey’dcomeback,andtheydidn’tdie.Notonlydidn’ttheydie,theyhavebetterbloodpressure,betterbloodlipidtests,theirtriglycerideswoulddroplikearock,theirbellyfatwasstartingtogowaybase.Theylookedbetter,theyfeltbetter,andthispresentedwhatpsychologistscalledcognitivedissonance.Here’stwopiecesofevidencethatdon’tfittogether.Lowfatworksandhighfatkills.Here’sthesepeoplegoingonahighfatdiet.It’snotonlyaretheynotdying,they’re100%better.
Bytheway,Dave,Iwouldseetheseentrenchedbeliefsystemupclose.Thesemenandwomenwouldgototheirdoctors,andtheirdoctorwouldsaytothem,“MyGod,thistestisamazing.Look,youlookfantastic.Youlost4inchesofyou,butthisamazing.Whatdidyoudo?”Theygo,“IwentontheAtkinsdiet.”Theygo,“Youcan’tdothat.Thatisgoingtokillyou.”It’sliketheywouldn’tbelievetheevidenceoftheirsenses.
Thatwasnumberonethatgotmetoquestionwhatwehadbeentaught.It’swhatstartedmeonthepathofbecomingacholesterolskepticbecauseasyouknow,everythingwebelieveaboutfatandcholesterolareabsolutelymarriedtogether.TheyaretheBonnieandClydeofnutrition.Youcan’ttalkaboutonewithouttheother.They’revery,veryinterrelatedbecauseafterall,theonlymainreasonyou’veeverbeentoldnottoeatfatisbecauseitraisesyourcholesterolandweallknowthecholesterolcausesheartdisease.Ifthat’snottrue,thewholethingstartstocollapselikeahouseofcards.Thatwasnumberone.
![Page 9: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/9.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
9
Numbertwo,veryearly1991,somewherelikethat,anunknown
biochemistfromMIThadjustpublishedabookandhecametogivealectureatEquinox.Hestartedtogetpublicityfromthisbookthatnobodyeverheardof.ThebookturnedouttobeTheZone.TheMITbiochemistwasBarrySears.Hecomesin,andhegivesthislecturetothetrainers,andhetalksabouthowwe’vegotthewholecaloriethingwrongandhowit’sreallyhormonesthatruntheshow,andfoodhasahormonaleffectthatisnotjustaboutthenumberofcaloriesbutitisabouthowthosecaloriesinstructyourhormonestoeitherjumpintoactionorgointohibernation.Thefoodisactuallyinstructingitsinformationforyourhormones.Thiswasaradicalconcept,radical.
Now,Dr.AtkinshavetalkedaboutitwhenhetalkedaboutinsulinbutyouhavetorememberthatDr.Atkinswasapariahinthemedicalcommunity.Everybodyhatedhim.Theyjustthoughthewasaquack.Hewasnotappreciated.Hewassuchageniusbuthewasveryeasytodismiss.Plushewaskamajiandhedidn’tmakealotoffriends.ItwasnotsoeasytodismissthisMITbiochemist,BarrySears.Hestartstalkingaboutthehormonaleffectoffood.IwentuptohimafterwardsandIsaid,“Dr.Sears,ifwhatyou’resayingiscorrect,theneverybodyelseiswrong.”Idon’tknowifyouknowBarrySearsbuthe’snotlackinginconfidence,andhelookedatme,andhesmiledbenevolently,andhesaid,“That’sexactlyright.Everybodyelseiswrong.”
Thosetwothingstogethermademesay,“Waitaminute.Thereismoretothisfatandcholesterolstuffthanwe’vebeentaught,andIwanttogettothebottomofit.”Personally,justasahumanbeing,mydrivingforceinlifeisthatIhatebullies.WhenIwaswatchinghere,itwasbullying.IwaswatchingtheAmericanMedicalAssociation,Iwaswatchingdoctorswhoreallyknownothingaboutnutritionwhoarebeingpompous,andpresumptive,andjusttellingpeoplewhattheyoughttodo,andnotknowingwhattheyweretalkingabout,andIwatchedpeopleliterallybebulliedintothis.
Thevictimizationofobesepeopleremainstobejustacauseofthat
![Page 10: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/10.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
10
becausethisisthelastacceptableprejudiceinAmerica.ComedianscangoonlatenightTVandmakejokesaboutfatpeopleandpeopledonotunderstandthemillionsofthingsthatactuallygointoweightgain,hormones,metabolism,themicrobiome,guthealth,astretch,there’sjustahundreddifferentfactorsthatnobodyislookingat,andeveryoneisjustsaying,“It’sallaboutdiet.It’sallaboutexercise.It’sallaboutcalories,”andit’snot.Thosewerethethingsthatbeganmeonthejourneyofquestioningtheestablishmentwhenitcametoadviceaboutweightloss.
Ididwanttomakeonecommentaboutthiswholeeatmorefat,andfeelbetter,loseweight,andallthethingsyouandItalkedabout.Mygreatnutritionteacherandmentor,RobertCrayhon,thelategreatRobertCrayhonusedtosay,“TheproblemwiththeAmericanmentalityisitwetellthemsomethinggreataboutfatwhenwetalkaboutthemeta-trainingdietandtheirtakeawayis‘IguessIshouldaddmoreoliveoiltomycornflakes.’”Iwanttobeveryclearthatwe’renottalkingabouttakingyourcrappydietandjustaddingmorefattoit,andmagicallythingsaregoingtochange.
We’retalkingaboutmakingsomeveryimportantsubstitutionshere.Removingsomeoftheinflammatoryomega6fatsthatwe’vebeentaughtaresohealthy.Removingsomeofthecarbohydratesthatdriveinsulinthroughtheroof,andmakeusinflamed,andcontributetoobesity,andreplacingthatstuffwiththehealthyfatsweshouldneverhavetakenoutofourdietinthefirstplace,includingsaturatedfat.
Dave: Whatdoyouthinkabouttheevidence-basedbullieswhoareouttheresaying,“It’sallaboutcaloriesin,caloriesout,yougottoexercisemore?”IstillseethisespeciallyamongthebodybuilderIwanttolookmuscledbutemaciatedintermsofextremeleanthatyouhavethebodybuilderphysiquewhichisprettyamazingwhenyoupullitoffbutIseealotofonlinehatefromthatcrowd.Howdoyourespondtothatperspectives?It’slikethereisnoevidencethatanythingbutcaloriesmakesthedifference.Dolockhiminacaloriechamber?Whatisyourresponsetothat?
![Page 11: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/11.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
11
Jonny: There’sseveralresponsestoit.
Dave: Otherthanyourmiddlefinger,right?
Jonny: Peoplegetveryattachedtobeliefsystems.Mypreviouslife,myMastersisinPsychologywhichjustservedmeverywellinworkingwithweightlossandwithpersonaltransformation.Bytheway,thisistheperfecttimetopointout,anotherthingthatwesharebesidestheloveoffatandahatredforthebulliesinthisestablishmentwhotellustoeatthedietthatmakesusfat,sick,tired,anddepressed.Asidefromthatisthissensethatthewholecaloriethingisabeliefsystem.Thethingaboutevidence-basedmedicinethatpeoplethrowoutthereallthetimeanditgivesmehivesbecauseitsoundsgreat,itsoundslikewejustwanttodowhatworks,butwhatyouhavetorememberiswhocontrolstheevidence.
Thedrugcompaniesloveevidence-basedmedicinebecausetheyruntheevidence,theyrunthetrials,theycontrolthestudies,andthentheycansay,“Look,statindrugs,wehavetheevidence.”Ifyouknowanythingabouthowresearchisdone,andhowit’sreported,andhowit’sfunded,andhowthewholesystemworks,youknowthatthat’sarigsystemevidence-basedmedicine.Itwouldthrowouteverysinglenaturalremedythat’severbeenusedthateverhasanykindofaclinicaltrackrecord,andnobodywouldeveruseitbecausethere’snoevidenceinthesenseofaclinicaltrial,fourth-levelclinicaltrial,fundedmultimillionsofdollarsbythepharmaceuticalindustry.
I’mnotabigfanofthenotionofevidence-basedmedicine.Again,ImentionedRobertCrayhonearlier.Heusedtohaveawonderfulsaying.He’dsay,“TheentireNewYorkCityFireDepartmentdoesnothaveonerandomizedclinical-controlledstudythatshowsthatwaterputsoutfirebuttheybehavelikeitdoes.”Areyougoingtothrowouttheevidenceofyoursenses,andwhatworks,andwhatyoutry,andwhatyouworkbecausethere’snoevidencethatwasproducedbyapharmaceuticalcompany?Idon’tthinkthat’sgreat.
Dave: That’stheproblemwiththeevidence-basedcommunity.It’snotthat
![Page 12: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/12.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
12
evidenceisaproblem.Evidenceiswonderfulandclinicianswillrunevidenceeveryday.Asyouthrowthehammer,ithurts.That’sevidence.Ididn’thavetoblindfoldhimandhithimwiththehammerindifferentplacestoseeifithurtshim,right?Weknowsometimesbecausethere’smanydifferentkindsofevidence.Theartofevidence-basedwhateveryou’retryingtodoisprettymuchrejecttheevidenceyoudon’tlikebecauseyousaythisstudywasn’tgoodenough,accepttheevidenceyoulikebecauseitwasdoubleblind,andthenignorealltheclinicaldata,ignorealltheclinicians,andignoremillionsofpeoplewhogotbetterdoingwhateveritwasbecauseyoudon’tlikeit.Youdon’tlikeitbecauseitcan’tworkbecauseofyour…
Jonny: Becauseyouknowitdoesn’twork.Becauseyouknowthatitdoesn’twork.
Dave: Yeah,it’sbecauseofyourdogmaticbeliefs.It’sactuallylikeaself-torturecyclethere.I’mallforevidence.Ifyouwanttosaywhatyou’redoingisevidence-based,whatyou’reactuallydoingisyou’resaying,“Everyonewhodoesn’tagreewithmeisacon.”Ifthat’stheworldyou’recomingfrom,Idon’tneedtospendmytimeonyoubecauseyoudon’tunderstandbasicscience.Infact,you’verejectedbasicsciencebyworshipingonthealtarof,“Ionlytakeoneofsixorsevenkindsofevidence,andIamblindtotherestoftheworldbecauseofmybeliefsystems.”It’slikegotoanISIS.That’swhereyoubelong.
Jonny: Yeah.No,Icouldn’tagreemore.Thewholebeliefinthecaloriething,Ithinkwe’rebeginningtoseeacriticalmess,andpeopleinrespectedmainstreampeopleevenmovingawayfromthecaloriesorthewholestorything.WithDavidLudwigatHarvard,youcannotgetmorecredentialthanthisguy.
Dave: He’sagreatguy,right?
Jonny: He’sunbelievable.Whenhejustpublishedabookaboutitandsaid,“Dude,sorrybutitain’tworking,’becauseasBarrySearstaughtmeback25yearsago,foodhasahormonaleffect.InourbookinSmartFat,thankyouformentioning,weactuallygobeyondthegoodfat,bad
![Page 13: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/13.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
13
fatdichotomywhichissowillfullyoutofdate.It’slikethegoodcholesterol,badcholesterolstuff.We’vegonesofarbeyondthat.Wenowknowthere’sfivedifferentkindsofLDLcholesterol,fivedifferentkindsofHDL.Theyoperatedifferently.
Thesamethingwithgoodfat,badfat.Thefactthatsomefatisgoodandsomeisbadisnotrevolutionaryornew.Ifthat’sallwehadtosay,wewouldn’twriteabook.Whatwedohereistodividethatintermsofwhetherornotit’stoxic.Thisissuchadifferentwayoflookingoffatthantheconventionalway.Dave,oneofthebullyingprinciplesthathasdrivenmecrazyallalongisthisnotionthatsaturatedfatisbad,animalproductsarebad,everythingelseisgood.
Infact,here’swhattheevidencereallyshows,thevegetableoilsthatyou’veallbeentoldtoeatthatissupposedtobesohealthy,weweresupposedtoswapeverythingoutforcanolaoil,andsoybeanoil,andcottonseedoil,andcornoil,andallofthesethingsthatwegotridoflard.Rememberinthe‘80s,everybodydecidednaturalhealthyfatslikelardarebadsotheyallswitchedovertocanolaoilsothat’sreallygoodnow.Thosearethemostinflammatoryoilsontheplanet.They’rehighlyrefined,loadedwithomega6swhicharetheprecursorsfortheinflammatorycascadeinthebody.Now,weneedsomeomega6sbuttheyneedtobeinbalancewithouranti-inflammatoryomega3s.Theyshouldbeinaboutaone-to-oneproportion.Weconsumeabout16timesmoreomega6sbecauseweallthinkvegetableoilissogood.Notagoodfat.
Ontheotherhand,thesaturatedfatswe’vebeentoldissobadareonlybadwhentheycomefromfeedlotsfarms.LetmegiveyouagreatexampleofthisthatIthinkmostpeoplecanunderstand.IliveinSouthernCalifornia.Aboutayearortwoago,wehadabige-coliscare,anditwastracedtospinach.Itwastracedtothisonefarmthatwasmakingspinachcontaminated.
Dave: No,no,no.Sorry.Sorry,spinachisplant-based.Itcan’tbebadforyou.
Jonny: You’reright,exactly.Itcan’tbebad.Notonehealthprofessional,not
![Page 14: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/14.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
14
onewentontheairandsaid,“Don’teatspinach.It’sbadforyou.”Theyallunderstoodthatsomethinghadbeencontaminatedhere.Itwasn’t,“Don’teatspinach.Recallthespinachthatwascontaminated.”No,wealleatspinach.
Thesamethingistruewithanimalfats.Theyarenotbadbecausetheycomefromanimals.Theyarebadbecausetheycomefromcontaminatedanimalsbecauseinfeedlotfarms,here’swhathappens,numberone,they’renothinglikefarms.They’remegaagribusinessesofthousandsofacresofcattlekeptintinylittlestalls.Firstofall,they’refedgrain,nottheirnaturaldiet,makestheirstomachacid.Secondofall,they’refedtonsofantibiotics.Thirdofall,they’refedsteroids,bovinegrowthhormone.Allthesethingstofattenthemup.Theirfatabsorbsallthepesticidesinthegrainsthattheyshouldn’thavebeeneatinginthefirstplace.Then,theyhavetogetmoreantibioticsbecausetheirstomachsgetacid.You’vegotatoxicwastedumpofananimalhere.Then,you’reeatingitandyou’regoing,“Animalfoodisbad.”No.Thatanimalfoodisbad.
Ifyougotoarealfarm,andyougetpasture-raisedcowswheretheygrazehappilyongrass,andeatsomeworms,andinsects,andtheiromega3contentishigh,andtheydon’teatgrainssotheydon’thaveacidsinstomach,andthey’renotinantibiotics,thatisahealthfood.There’sanenormousdifferencebetweensaturatedfatoranyfatthatcomesfromatoxicdumpandsaturatedoranyfatthatcomesfromahealthyanimalorahealthyplant.
That’sthedistinctionwemakeinSmartFat,notthedifferencebetweenanimalversusvegetableorsaturatedversusunsaturatedbutbetweentoxicandnontoxic.Then,there’sawholeclassoffatthatwecallneutralwhichyes,there’snotmassivehumanevidencethatshowsthatthey’renecessarilybeneficialtheway,say,thefatincoconutoiloroliveoilisbutthere’salsonotashredofevidencethatthey’reharmfulsothey’reneutralandyoucaneatasmuchofthemasyouwant.
Dave: Althoughifyoueatasmuchoftheneutralfatsasyouwant,you’reprobablyeatingfewerofthebetterfats,right?
![Page 15: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/15.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
15
Jonny: Probablysobut…
Dave: Thereisadistinction.
Jonny: You’reabsolutelyrightbutwhatI’msayingisthatthisisamuchmore
importantdistinctionbetweentheoldgoodandbadfatthatwasdividedaccordingtosaturatedversusunsaturated.That’sjustnotso.
Dave: Oneofthebiggestfactorsinmyresearchthat’snotwellunderstoodissomethingthatyoutouchedoninSmartFatistheideathatfatitselfisatoxinstore.Ifyoutakeafatpersonandyoubiopsytheirfat,andyoulookatmercury,youlookatlotsofthepesticides,youlookatendocrinedisruptors,thebodyusesfatasastorageorganfortoxinsthatcannotbemetabolizedintheliverbecausetheliverisoverloaded.Toxicityisadriverofobesity,andthere’satypeoftoxinthat’smadebyMotherNatureandbymen,organophosphatesarethemanmadeonesandmycotoxins,thetoxinsfrommoldinfood,specificallymoldygrainwhichisamajorissueinagriculture.
Thesetoxinsarecalledlipophilic.Thatmeansthattheyarefat-lovingandtheydissolveintofatthesamewaythatfoodcolordissolvesintoaglassofwater.Then,youeatthatfatanditgoesintotheanimal’sfat.Weeattheanimal’sfat,itgoesintoourfat.Thesetoxinsarecorrelatedwithneurodegenerativeillness,withcancer,andspecificallywithlesionsinyourarteries.
Whenpigseatmycotoxin-contaminatedgood,theygetatherosclerosis.Whenweeatpigsthatatemycotoxin-contaminatedfood,arewegoingtogetatherosclerosis?Ibelievesoandit’soneofthereasonswhatyourpigateactuallymatters.Apigthatatefreshfoodisgoingtobeareallyamazingsourceofbacon.Apigthatateindustrialgrainthathadthehighestpossibleoflimitofmoldthatwouldn’tkillthepigwhichiswhattheydobecausemoldygrainischeaper,thenyoushouldexpecttofeellikecrapandbeinflamedafteryoueatyourbacon.That’showitworks,right?
![Page 16: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/16.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
16
Jonny: Yeah,that’sexactlyright.Yousaidbeautifully,andaccurately,andIwisheverybodywouldtakethathome,andtattooitunderneaththeireyelidsbecausethatisthetruthaboutit.Ithasnothingtodowithwhetherornotthesourcewasapigorasoybeanfield.Ithastodowithwhetherornotthathasbeencontaminated.Asyoupointoutsoaccurately,weallstoretoxinsinourfat.Everymammalontheplanetdoes,sodothecowsthatarecomingfromfactoryfeedlots,andthepigsthatcomefromthat.
Evenifyouweren’tananimalrightspersonasIam,oryoudidn’tcareaboutanimals,ifforselfishreasons,youshouldcareabouthowthey’retreatedifyou’reeatingthembecauseit’savery,verydifferentanimalpardoneduponagrass-fedcowandafactoryfeedlotfarmedcowarenotthesameanimalsfromahealthpointofview.
Dave: That’sdefinitelyapointwhereweagreeradically.Now,whenyoulookatvegetable-basedfats.
Jonny: Yeah,goahead.
Dave: Wehavethiswholelikeofifit’splant-based,itmustbegoodforyou.There’splant-basedproteinsandthere’splant-basedfats.Myfavoriteplant-basedproteinisSarin,thenervegas,theonethatkilledallthepeopleintheTokyosubway.Itisaplant-basedproteinwhichisabsoluteproofthatplant-basedproteinsarebadforyou,exceptthatthatkindoflogicofplant-basedandanimal-basedismeaningless.
Ifwerejectthatandwesaytherearesomeoils.Someoilscomefromdifferentplants.Someoilscomefromdifferentanimals.Youcantakeanimalfatandbreakitintoallofitslittletypesofsubcomponentfats.Youcantakevegetablefatandbreakitintoallofitslittlesubcomponentparts.Youcouldrearrangethemondifferentglycerolmoleculesasthetriglycerides.Medium-chaintriglycerides,mightwesay?Iusesomeofthemedium-chaintriglyceridesbutnotalloftheminmyproducts.Whatarethetypesoffats?Whetherthey’refromvegetablesoranimals,Iactuallydocare,butwhataresomeofthetypesoffatsthatstandoutasmostmetabolicallybeneficialinyour
![Page 17: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/17.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
17
work?
Jonny: Certainlysinceyoustartedwithcoconutoil,that’sagreatone.Bytheway,mayIgiveyoukudostoyourbrainoctanebecauseafterIinterviewedyouformyTheTruthaboutFatLossSummit,youtalkedaboutthedifferencebetweenconventionalMCToil,thefatsthatarefoundincoconutoil,alotofpeopleusecoconutoilandgettheMCTsthatway.SometimestheyusepurifiedMCToilandyouhavethatbrainoctane.YouweresoconvincingthatIorderedtwobottlesofitfromyourwebsite,andtheywillnowtryitfrommycolddeadhandsbecauseIusethateverysingleday.Certainly,MCToil,whetheritthepurifiedformofbrainoctaneorwhetherinanotherhighqualityform,isonethatIthinkwecansayhavegoodhealthbenefitsassociatedwithit.
Dave: Bytheway,we’reabouttoreleaseastudyshowingahugedifferenceinthenumberofketonesformedfrombrainoctaneversuscoconutoil.TheevidenceisinfromamajorUniversityofCaliforniasource.Ican’twaittopublishthatbecauseit’sgoingtoblowthewateroutofthefact.
Jonny: Yeah,Iloveyourbrainoctane.There’sone.TherearesomeoilsthatI’llbeveryhonestwithyou,myco-authorandIdidn’tquite…IwouldhaveMalaysianpalmoilassmartfat.Stephendidn’tfeeltherewasyetenoughhumanresearchtosaythatthisisdefinitelyabeneficialfat.Hewastotallyinagreementthatit’sgottenabadrepandthere’snothingwrongwithit.Iwouldgoalittlefurther.IthinkI’mactuallyleaningtowardsfeelingthatthere’senoughresearchtosaythatthisisasmartfat.Inanycase,it’sloadedwithcarotenoids.It’sloadedwithtocotrienols.That’swhatgivesittheredcolor.That’sagreatoil.
Dave: Ihaveaquestiononthatone.
Jonny: Yeah.
Dave: I’mafanoftocopherolsandtocotrienols.Itakethemconcentratedbutpalmiticacidescortslipopolysaccharides,theseisarethetoxinsfromgutbacteria,rightacrossthegutmembraneandincreasetheirtoxicity
![Page 18: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/18.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
18
whichiswhypalmoilformeisonthesuspectfoods.It’smuchbetterthanvegetableoilbutithasthatweaknessthatcoconutoilandfishoilandthingsdon’thave.Thatwasmybigconcern.Doyouhaveanycommentsonthat?
Jonny: No.You’realittlefurtheradvanceinthebiochemistryspectrumthanIam.Ihavenotseenanynegativesassociatedwiththat.Maybeintheproportionthatit’sfoundinpalmoilasanoveralloil,Ithinkit’sprettygood,buttogointothelesscontroversialareasofoilsandfatsthathavebeenfoundtohavebeneficial,certainlyoliveoilinalltheMediterraneandietstudies,and…
Dave: Isitokaytocookwitholiveoil?Ihaveanopiniontherebutwhat’syourtake?
Jonny: Italldependsonthetemperature.Actually,IwilltellyouoneofthethingsIlearnedfrommyco-author,StephenMasley,hewasatrainedchef.HetookayearandactuallystudiedattheFourSeasonsforayearwhilehewasinmedicalschool.Whatwelearnedaboutthat,andIhadtocorrectsomeofmypreviousbeliefsaboutoils,isthatthesmokepointofoilisthepointatwhichitbecomessomethingelseandwhenitactuallyconvertstosubstancesyoudon’twant.Youneverwanttocookitwithanoilatitssmokepoint.Ihadalwaysbelievedcoconutoil,youcancookit5-600.Youcan’t.
Dave: No.No,youcan’t.
Jonny: It’sgotasmokepointof250.Now,whenyourefineoils,youcangoatahighersmokepointbutyougotlessgoodstuffinitsothere’sthetradeoff.
Dave: Brainoctanewouldgoto320.
Jonny: Let’sstillnotdeepfryingbutyouandIdon’trecommenddeepfryinganyway.
Dave: Youshouldn’tdipfryanythinganyways.It’sjustbad.Eventheoilis
![Page 19: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/19.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
19
amazing,itwon’tbeamazingwhenyou’redonedeepfrying.
Jonny: Canyoucookwitholiveoil?Youhavetothinkofitthisway,whydowepaysomuchmoneyfortrueextravirginoliveoil?
Dave: Exactly.
Jonny: Thatwasoliveoil,it’sclosetoabunchofoldGreekmenwalkingaroundwithwinebottlesandpressingitoutwithamechanicalpressintheirfeet.There’snohightemperaturesassociatedwithrealextravirginoliveoil.Youpayextraforitbecausethetemperaturehasdestroyedthisveryvaluablepolyphenolsthatarefoundintheoliveoil.Whywouldyoupaytwicethemoneyforextravirginoliveoilandthencookitat400degrees?Itmakesnosenseatall.You’rethengoingtodestroytheverythingyoupaidextratohave.
Iwouldsaythatwithextravirginoliveoil,youshouldnotcookwithit.It’sbestfordrizzlingandlastminuteputtingonatstufforsaladdressings.Whenyougettovirginoliveoilorjustplainoldoliveoil,yes,youcancookinhighertemperatureswithitbutofcourse,itdoesn’thaveallthewonderfulstuffinitthattheextravirginoliveoilhas.
Dave: OneofmyfavoriteItalianrecipes,thisisnotintheBulletproof:TheCookbook,butit’sBeefTagliatelle.Youtakeapieceofbeefandyoucookitrelativelyrare,andyouslice,andyoupourextravirginoliveoilinit.Notice,youdidn’tpouroilinit,thencookit.Youdiditintherightorder.
Jonny: Yeah,yeah,yeah.Verynice.
Dave: Doyouagreewiththat?That’sbeenoneofmyfindings.
Dave: Iagreewiththatandthere’safewpeoplelikeChrisKresserwrotesomethingrecentlysaying,“It’sokay.There’snoevidenceusingsomeofthesethings.”There’ssomethingaboutbloodsugardeclineafterit,butIfoundtheevidencetobeunconvincingandthebiochemistryis
![Page 20: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/20.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
20
prettyclear.Heat,lightandairmessupoliveoil.Oliveoilhasmorepolyphenols.Itstandsupbetterthanoliveoilstrippedoffthepolyphenolsbutit’sstillnotagoodidea.There’sjustnoreasontodoit.Usebutter,itissimplyabetterchoice.Useghee.Usecoconutoil.Frankly,ifyoudidaddsomewatersothatthetemperaturewon’trisetoomuch,thenyouprotecttheoil.Ifyouwanttodeepfrysomething,goingintotoTwinkie,deepfriedfoodisneverhealthynomatterwhatoilyouuse.
Jonny: Verywellput.IwouldaddtothedelusivefabulousoilsthatIwasn’tquiteasawareoftheavocadooil.Smokepointof520.Dude,ifyoucan’tcookyourselfin520,there’ssomethingwrongwithyou.Thatstandsuptheheatverywell,andit’sloadedwithOmega9s,andverygoodoilforyou.Again,likeyouandIwouldprobablyagree,I’mabigfanofsaturatedfat.Ieatbacon.IdidawebinaractuallyinpromotingtheSmartFatlaunchcalledWhyaTopNutritionistNeedsBaconwhereIdeconstructedalloftheobjectionstobaconandshowedhowyoucancookitinahealthywayandhowyoucaneatitinahealthywaybecausewhenit’snitrate-free,notcookedinhighheat,andcomesfrompasturedpork,that’sadamnhealthfood.Letmetellyourightthere,it’saperfectproportionoffatandprotein.
Dave: Imakemyownbaconandoneofmyveryfavoritethingstodo,andit’ssomethingthat’sinBulletproof:TheCookbookandit’sinBulletproofDiet,isduringsummer,yougetmuchbetterqualitypork,summerandfall,becauseduringwinter,theyfeedspoiledfood.There’smorestoredgrainandthere’smorebuildupofthesetoxinsinpigs.Pigsmetabolizetoxinsthesamewayhumansdowiththeirkidneysinsteadoftheirlivers,likeratsandsomeotheranimals,likecowshavethreestomachsthatdealwithtoxins.Pigfatstorestoxinsthesamewaywestoretoxinsandwebothsuckatdetox.Thatmakespigsagoodmodelforwhathumansdoanditmeansthattheirfatisextradelicious.Theonlyproblemisthatifyou’reeatingwinterandspringpork,yourchancesofbeinginflamedthenextday,notbecauseyougotbadfat,butyoubecauseyougotfat-solubletoxinsinthefat,itgoesthewayup.
Jonny: Interesting.
![Page 21: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/21.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
21
Dave: Everysummer,IbuyeightortenporkbelliesfromHeritageBreed.I
liveonVancouverIsland.It’safarmingcommunity.IlivehereforareasonbecauseI’monanorganicfarmsoIcouldeatallthisstuff.Ibuythose.Iputtheminthefreezer.Then,Imakebaconoutofit.Sometimes,youjustcutitoutandyouroastahunkofporkbellythisbig.Ifyou’relisteningontheradio,I’mtalkinglikethesizeofasheetofpaper.Youroastthat,youscoretheskin,andit’smykids’favoritedish.It’sjustsogoodandyougetafoodeyefromitbecauseyou’reeatingcleanfat.It’stherightkindoffatandit…
Jonny: Itsoundsgreat.Itsoundsgreat.
Dave: It’slifechangingtodothat.
Jonny: I’llbet.Thatsoundswonderful.
Dave: Let’stalkaboutomega3toomega6ratiosbecauseIknowyouwriteaboutthatinSmartFat.What’syourtakeontheidealratioinfoodandinhumanswhenyoudoalabtest?
Jonny: It’saverysimpleanswer,1:1.Look,letmegiveyoutheshort15-secondelevatorspeechaboutomegasandinflammation.Weneedbothinflammatoryandanti-inflammatorycompoundsinourbody,peopleoftensayandomega6swhicharepredominantinthevegetableoilswe’vebeentoldtoeatarepro-inflammatory.Inotherwords,thelittlehormonescalledeicosanoidsthatactuallycauseinflammation.Theinflammatoryonescomefromomega6andtheanti-inflammatoriescomefromomega3s.
Now,weneedboth.Peopleaskmeallthetime,“Whatdoweneedinflammationfor?”Thinkaboutthehealingresponse.Thinkaboutifyougetasplinterandwhathappensinthearea,itgetsswollen.Whatisthat?That’saninflammatoryresponse.Thewhitebloodcellsgo.Theysurroundthepuncturewound.Theytrytopreventamicrobefromgettingaholdandstartinganinfection.Theareafillswithfluidandwater.Inflammatoryresponseispartofthehumanresponse.It’s
![Page 22: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/22.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
22
whyyougetatemperatureandwhyyougetafever.It’sthebody’swayofdealingwiththat.Youneedsomeinflammation,theabilitytoforminflammatorycompoundsinthebodyaspartofthehealingprocess.
Problemisyou’vegotthesearmies.You’vegotyourinflammatoryarmyandthat’sbeingfueledbyomega6sandyougotyouranti-inflammatoryarmythat’sbeingfueledbyomega3s.Whentheyareinbalance,everythingisgood,lifeiswonderful.Whenyoufundtheinflammatoryarmywith16timesmorefundsthanyou’regivingtheanti-inflammatoryarmy,youareindeepdoo-doo.
Alltheresearch,andI’vegotthemasterbookofresearchonthisrighthereinfrontofme.It’sthevolume100oftheWorldConferenceofDietetics.Theydidanentireresearchreportonthebalancebetweenomega3sandomega6s,andhowthisrelatestocardiovasculardisease.Theresearchisveryclearthatwearegetting,atminimal,16timesmoreomega6sinourdietthanomega3s.Then,wewonderwhywe’reinflamed,andinflammationisatthecoreofeverymajordegenerativediseaseweknowoffromAlzheimer’s,tocancer,todiabetes,toobesity,toheartdisease.
Weareliterallyfuelingtheinflammatoryarmybyeatingsomanyomega6s.IfyouthinkabouteveryprocessedfoodinAmerica,youcannotswingaropeinthegrocerystorewithoutfindingsoybeanoil,andcottonseedoil,andcornoil,andpartiallyhydrogenated,nothydrogenated,they’reallvegetableoils.It’s16timesmoreandthat’sabigpartofwhywe’resoinflamed.
Dave: IntheBulletproofDiet,Ifoundnumbersrangedfrom16to40,upto40times.
Jonny: 16isconservative.Ihaveafeelingit’smuchhigher.That’swhattheresearchwasabletodocumentandIthinkit’smuchhigherincertainpartsofthecountry.
Dave: Forpeoplelistening,whatthismeansisthatifyouwouldtakeanobesepersonwhoeatsthestandardAmericanprocessedfastfoodand
![Page 23: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/23.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
23
restaurant,evennotfastfood,justrestaurantfoods,becausetheyputtheseoilsallovertheplaceinrestaurants,whattheyhaveis40timesmoreomega6thanomega3oilsintheirbody.Thatisoddbecauseyourcellmembraneswhicharemadeoflittletinydropletsoffat,theyneedacertainamountofundamagedomega6.It’scriticallyimportant.Ifyoudon’thavesomeofthat,you’regoingtobeintrouble,butwhatyou’reeatingisyou’reeatingmassesofdamagedomega6becausetheyfriedinit,theycookwithit,andthisstuffisunstableanyway.Itbasicallygoesrancid.Itoxidizesduringmanufacturewhentheyusesolventsinitandwhenit’sputinplasticbottlesandthings.
Whenyouincorporatethisdamagedomega6inexcessinyourcellmembranes,you’recreatingfreeradicalsthroughoutthebodyandthat’sthesourceofinflammationbuttheanti-agingpeople.Jonny,I’veranananti-agingresearchandeducationgroupcalledtheSiliconValleyHealthInstituteformorethanadecadeandit’sgivenmeachancetolearnallofthethingsIknowandtointerviewlots,hundredsofexpertsonthesethings.Thegeneralconsensustherewasaratioof4:1.You’dhearthisattheAmericanAcademyofAnti-AgingMedicine.Iwastherethisyear.Imetmywifethere11yearsago.ThesearemypeopleeventhoughI’mnotadoctor.
WhenIlookedatthat4:1andIlookedatmynumbers,I’vegottenmyselfdownto1:1onoccasion.Rightnow,I’mat1.7:1.TheguywhoisthemostaggressiveI’veevermetwho’saprofessor,ProfessorLarrySmarrfromUCSanDiego,hewasdownto0.86:1.He’stheonlyguywhohavereallybeatmeintermsofthatratio,butI’mconcernedat1:1thatyourcellmembranesactuallymightnothaveenoughomega6tohaveappropriatefluidity.Areyou100%certainthat1:1istherightratioversus2:1or3:1becauseI’mnot.Iknowit’saround4anditmightbeloweroritmightbesethigher,butwheredoesthatcomefrom?
Jonny: ThenumberthatIhavealwayswrittenandstoodbyistherangeofbetween1:1and4:1.
Dave: Anywiththerange,allright.
![Page 24: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/24.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
24
Jonny: Yeah,I’mcoolwiththerangeof1:1to4:1.The1:1comesfromthe
BoydEatonoriginalpaperonthePaleolithicdietthatwaspublishedoneitherJEMAonNewEnglandJournal,Idon’trememberwhich.It’saclassicpaperonthepaleodietthatstartedthewholethinggoing.ItwasevenbeforeLorenCordain’sbookcameout.Thatwasabout1:1.Infact,someresearchinthatworld,thethingondieteticsthatItoldyouaboutwhenItalkedaboutratio,foundthatsomePaleolithicorhuntergatherersocietiesactuallyconsumed0.7:1.Itwasactuallyevenlessthan1:1,butI’mverycomfortablewiththeratioofbetween1:1and4:1.
TheonethingIwouldsaytoyouaboutyourfriendsandthepeoplewhoaremeasuringyourbloodandlookingatthatisthatthedietaryratiomaynotnecessarilybethesameastheidealratiointheblood.
Dave: That’sexactlyright.
Jonny: Ifyou’relookingatthisguyis0.86:1,thatmaynothaveaperfectcorrelationwiththedietaryintake.Ithinkfordietaryintake,I’mcomfortablewithsayinganywherebetween1:1and4:1butnot16:1,not40:1,not50:1,notwhatwe’reconsuminginAmerica.
Dave: TheimplicationhereissomethingIdid.IwasahugeBarrySearsfanwhenhefirstcameoutbackinthelate‘90swhenhisowndietfirstcameoutanditdidmakeadifferenceforme.IsawhalfmyweightbutI’veplayedwithAtkinsbutitwason.Ireallygotintothenutoilsandeatingalmondsbecauseyouneedthatomega3butwhatIfoundwasthat,andIwasarawvegantoowhereIeattonsofnuts,butnutsareactuallynotthatgoodforyou.They’reallinthesuspectfoodcategorybecausealthoughtheyhavesomefatinthemandbecausethey’rerelativelylowsugar,ifyoueatwaytoomanynuts,youaregoingtogetmoreomega6thanyouwant.
I’mafanofeatingnutsbutwhenyoudoit,someinthepaleocommunityhavedoneovertimes,like,“Look¸it’sapaleodessert.”It’slikepoundsandpoundsofnutsandawholebunchofdateswhichare
![Page 25: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/25.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
25
actuallysugar.Somehowthatmakesit“paleo”becausethereisn’talegaldefinitionofpaleo.ThatconcernsmebecausewhenIwaseatingmassesofnuts,myinflammationwasnotlow.WhenIatemoderateamountsofnuts,myinflammationwasundercontrol.Funny,that’swhatthebiochemistrysaysshouldhappenbutnutsbythemselvesaren’tgoodorbad.Excessivenessarebad.Nonutsisprobablyokay.Amodernamountofnutsisgreat.
Jonny: Yeah.Tospeaktothat,andIthinkit’sagreatplacetotakeabird’seyeviewofallthisisI’mnotafanofanyreligiousfollowingofanydietaryprinciplesofpaleo,youcan’teatbeans,andthisoneyou’vegottoeatlotsofit.Ifindthatthatkindofslavishfollowingofanydietaryprinciples,includingmyown,isverymisguidedandultimatelynotbeneficial,anditgoesmysecondpointwhichisbiochemicalindividuality.Ithinkthisissomethingthatyouagreewithandit’ssomethingthatI’veembracedeversincemyfirstnutritionclassever.
Itcomesfromabookthatwaswritteninthe‘50sbyadoctornamedDr.RogerWilliamswhoactuallyinventedVitaminB5ordiscoveredvitaminB5,pantothenicacid.HewrotethisbookcalledBiochemicalIndividuality.Whathehaddonewashedidatonofautopsiesandatonofliveanalysisandthingslikeanumberofbetacellsinthepancreas,thenthesizeofthethyroidgland,justeverypossiblemeasurementandmetricyoucouldgoinnormalpeople,andhefoundarangethatwasalloverthemapintermsoftheeffectivenessofyourcytochromeP450,enzymesintheliverthatdetox,thesizeofthethyroidgland,thesizeofjustaboutanyorganyoucanname,enormousvariations.
Ialwayscomebacktothisinsaying,whenyoutalkabouttoomuchofnutscanbeagoodthing,toolittle,thatit’salwaysgoingtocomedowntowhatfitsyou,notwhat’sthebestdietbutwhat’sthebestdietforyou,theperson.Thatmaymeanit’ssomethingthatthebiochemistrysaysshouldbefineorit’ssomethingthatthebiochemistrysaysshouldnotbefine.Maybejustperfectforyouormaybeterribleforyou.
IndoingmyFatLossSummit,IinterviewedGaryTaubes,forexample.
![Page 26: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/26.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
26
Hesaid,“Iknewatage4,Iwasallergictocorn.Itdoesn’tmatterifcornisgood,bad,orindifferent.Ican’teatcorn.”I,JonnyBowden,don’tdrinkalcohol.Weallhaveourcurseofwhatdoesn’tworkforus.Itdoesn’tmatterthatthere’samillionstudyshowingthattwodrinksofalcoholadaylowerstheriskofheartattack.Notforme.Maybewhateverthefoodwasthattriggeredsomeofyourresearchandthingsthathavemoldinthemandthingslikethatthatmaybemanyofusaren’tawaredidn’tworkforyou.
Ialwaysencouragepeople,forme,mymissioninlifeistogetpeopletobetheleaderoftheirownhealthteamandnottonecessarilyfollowtheguruswhetherit’dbeme,oryou,oranybody,buttofindtheirownpathandtousewhatwetellthemasguidelinestotestthingsoutandseeifitworksornot.Ifitdoesn’t,throwitout.Idon’tcarewhattheauthoritiessay.
Dave: WhatarethethingsthattookthemosttimeinwritingtheBulletproofDietisIdevelopedtheroadmap.Thesethings,foralmosteveryone,aregoingtomakeyoukickass,gheeandstufflikethat.There’sabigbroadsetofstuffinthemiddleofthatthatIcallsuspectfoodsandthereasonisfor20%ofthepopulation,thistotallymessesyouup.You’reprobablyeatingthosethingseverydayandyoudon’tknowit.Thisotherone,40%ofthepopulationhasproblemswithitbuttheydon’tknowit.Forthisotherone,it’s30%.
Youthrowallthistogether,andyou’relike,“Look,unlessyoueliminateallthethingsthatarecausingproblemsforalittlewhile,you’llneverknowwhichsuspectsareguiltybecauseyoualwaysfeelalittlebitlikecrapevenifyoudon’tknowit.”Itwasthatamountofscience.Icantell,forme,Iknoweverysinglesourceofkryptoniteinfood.Everythingthatmakesmeweak,Inotice.Everythingthatmakesmestrong,Inotice.WhatIeatandwhatyoueat,likeyousaid,they’renotthesame.HowmuchcarbdoIneed?I’vetitratedit.Howmuchcarbdoyouneed?Idon’tknowbutIcantellyouthetimethat’sthebesttimetoeatitformostpeople,andyoumaybebizarreandyouneedfruitloopsinthemorning.Ijustdon’treallythinkthat’slikely.
![Page 27: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/27.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
27
Jonny: Icouldn’tagreewithyoumore.Inworkingwithclients,Idon’tdoitanymoreone-on-onebut10to15yearsofdoingit,onethingIlearnedisthattherearepeoplewhowilldrinkcoffeelateatnightandgorighttosleep,andtherearepeoplewhowouldtakeavalet,andthengooutandparty.Thereisahuge,huge,hugevariationinhowpeoplerespondtosubstancesandtheactionisnotfindingtheperfectsystembutinhonoringyourownindividualdifferencesanddecidingwhatworksforyou.Ithinkthat’ssomethingyouwouldprobablyagreewith.Tome,that’sprobablythemostimportantmessageofall.
Dave: Absolutely.We’reupontheendoftheshow,Jonny,andIwanttoaskyouaquestion.I’mreallyinterestedtohearyouranswer.
Jonny: Sure.
Dave: Ineveryepisode,Iaskthesamequestion.Ifsomeonecametoyoutomorrowandsaid,“Look,basedoneverythingthatyou’velearned,everythingyou’veexperiencedinyourlife,whatwouldyoutellmeifIsaidIwanttokickmoreassatlife.IwanttobebetterateverythingIdo.WhatarethethreethingsIneedtoknowthatmatterthemost?”
Jonny: It’savery,verygoodquestion.ThefirstthingI’dprobablytellthemistostopbelievingtheexpertsnomatterwhatit’sonandnomatterwhatthesubjectsthatwe’retalkingabout.Thatwouldbeagoodstartingspotorusingexpertinformationinadifferentway.WhenIwasingraduateschool,therewasabookthatwasmyfavoritebookever,anditwascalled,you’llunderstandimmediatelyjustfromthetitle,itwascalledIfYouMeettheBuddhaontheRoad,KillHim.Itwasabookaboutnotfollowinggurusandnotthinkingsomebodyhasalltheanswers.Thatwouldbenumberone.
Tome,justinmypersonallife,andmypersonalexperiences,andthechallengesI’vegonethroughbetweenaddictionandyounameit,Ithinkthatthegreatestsourceofthatperformancethatyou’retalkingaboutwheretheywanttokickass,andtheywanttobemore,andtheyjustwanttobreakthroughwalls,andshinealwayscomesfromtheembracingthedarksideofyourself.Allthestuffwekeephidden,and
![Page 28: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/28.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
28
wetrynottoshowpeople,andthatwethinkisshamefulandwrong,whenweembracethatandhandleitforthegoodandembraceit,ourperformancejustallofasuddenwouldbecomewhoweare.
Lookatitinpolitics,Iknowthisisgoingtobeevergreenandpeoplewouldprobablylistentothisacoupleofyearsfromnow,butrightnow,we’rein2016inthemiddleoftheprimaries,andwhoiswinning?Twocompletelydifferenthumanbeingswhocouldn’tbemoredifferentandalltheyshareisthey’reauthentic.Youmaynotlikethembutthey’reauthentic.Authenticitywinsouteverytime.Whetheritcomestoperformance,orshining,orbreakingthrough,it’salwaysgoingtobeaboutembracethatstuff.
AllenStonehasagreatsongwherehetalksaboutwhatyou’redoingoutside.Actuallyembracethatstuffthatyou’vebeenkeepingquietorkeepingundertheradar,andwhenyoureallyembracethat,andyoubecomemoreofwhoyouareinthebestway,andyouactuallythinklessaboutyourselfandmoreaboutwhatyoucancontributetoothers,itskyrocketsyouinwaysyoucannotpossiblyanticipate.
Dave: Beautifulanswers.ThanksJonnyandthanksforbeingonBulletproofRadio.YourbookiscalledSmartFat,co-authoredwithStephenMasley,andwhatURLshouldpeoplegotoifthey’dliketolearnmore?
Jonny: Smartfat.comand,ofcourse,mywebsite,jonnybowden.com,noHinJonny.
Dave: J-O-N-N-Y-Bowden-dot-com.
Jonny: Right,andsmartfat.com
Dave: Smartfat.com.We’llputthoselinksintheshownotes.
Jonny: Thankyou.
Dave: Ifyouenjoyedtoday’sepisode,youcangetafulltranscriptofitforfreeonbulletproofexec.com,andwe'velinkedallthecoolstuffwetalked
![Page 29: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/29.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
29
about.Ifyou’dliketosaythanks,IwanttotellyouaboutsomethingthatIalmostnever…IthinkInevertalkedaboutitonBulletproofRadiobutI’mgoingtoshowittoyoubecauseit’ssomethingthatI’mreallypleasedwith.BulletproofHotChocolate.
Now,ifyou’rewatchingonYouTube,IjustheldupthecanalmostlikeIwaspitchingsomethingbutI’mgoingtotellyousomethingthatyoudon’tknowabout.Hotchocolateisamazingwhenyoumakeitwiththerightchocolateandwithyoursugarinit.There’stimeswhenyouwanttogivestufftoyourkids.Mykids,theydrinkBulletproofCoffee.Theygetalittleoneortwoounceexhibit,andthat’sfine,butifyouwantedsomethingthat’salittlebitmoremellow,ahotchocolatelikethatisamazingbutwhenit’smadewithonlyrealfood,itdoessomethingdifferentforhowyoufeelbecauseyou’renotgettingthatsugarhigh.
Here’swhyI’mtalkingabouthotchocolate.Irecentlydidsomethingthatwasamiracleinthekitchen.ItookBulletproofHotChocolatemix,andImixedinroomtemperaturegrass-fedbutter,andbrainoctaneoil,andIblendedit.Whatcameoutwasthisridiculousfrosting-likesubstancethatcompletelytransformedprettymuchanythingI’veputiton.Itwasn’tverygoodonsaladbutifyouwantedsomedessert-likefrosting,thisstuffcompletelyblewmeoutofthewater.IshouldcallBulletproofHotChocolateBulletproofChocolateFrostingMixbecauseohmyGod,it’sgood.
Anyway,ifyouhaven’ttriediteventhoughIhaveit,youcanmakeamochaoutofthisstuffbutit’soneofthosethingswhereIreallycarefullycraftedthisstuffandInevertalkedaboutit.ThereareahugenumberoffriendsofmineinUtahwhodon’tdrinkcoffee.Oneofthemcametomeandsaid,“Dave,youshouldjustcallBulletproofHotChocolateMormonfuel.”Thereyougo.IfyouareinUtahandyoudon’tknowIhavethisstuff,youneedtotryit.Putsomebrainoctane,putsomebutterinthere,blenditupinthemorning,andyou’llbebulletproofwithoutanycoffee.Haveanawesomeday.Thanksforlistening.Serious,BulletproofHotChocolateisamazing.
![Page 30: Transcript of “305 with Johnny Bowden” - Bulletproof...Diet and what you read about in Smart Fat. That’s because eating more fat works. There are lots of nuances and lots of](https://reader033.vdocuments.us/reader033/viewer/2022060218/5f069e3b7e708231d418e342/html5/thumbnails/30.jpg)
Bulletproof Radio Podcast #305, Jonny Bowden
30