Download - FDA Oral History Interview, Schoonover
HI STORY OF THE
U. S . FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION
I n t e r v i e w between:
S t u a r t E. Schoonover, Re t i red
Indus t r y Re la t ions O f f i ce r ,
New York D i s t r i c t
and
Fred L. Lo fsvo ld
Food and Drug Admin i s t ra t i on
Woodbridge, Nebv Jersey
May 3 , 1982
This i s a t ranscr ip t ion of a taped interview, one of a
s e r i e s conductecl by Robert G . Porter and Fred L. Lofsvold,
r e t i r e d employees of the U. S. Food and Drug Administration.
The interviews were held w i t h r e t i r e d F.D.A. employees
whose recol lect ions may serve t o enrich the wr i t t en record.
I t i s hoped that these narra t ives of things past will serve
a s source material f o r present and fu ture researchers; t h a t
the s t o r i e s of important accomplishments, i n t e r e s t i ng events,
and dist inguished leaders wi l l f ind a place in t ra in ing and
or ien ta t ion of new employees, and may b e useful t o enhance
the morale of the organization; and f i n a l l y , that they will
be of value t o Dr. James Harvey Young in the wri t ing of the
his tory of the Food and Drug Administration.
The tapes and t ranscr ip t ions will become a par t of the
co l lec t ion of the National Library of Medicine and copies of
the t ranscr ip t ions will be placed in the Library of Emory
University.
---
Food and Drug Administration Room 500 U.S.Customhouse 721 19th Street Denver. Colorado 80202 303-837-491 5
TAPE INDEX SHEET
CASSETTE NUMBE?(S) I, 2, and 3
GENERAL TOPIC OF INTERVIEW: H i s t o r y o f t h e Food a n d O r u q A d m i n i s t r a t i o n
DATE: Mav 3. 1982 PLACE: Woodbridoe, N.J. LENSTH: 148 minutes
INTERVIEWEE INTERVIEWEE
NAME: S t u a r t E. Schoonover NAME: Fred L. Lo fsvo ld
ADDRESS: . ADDRESS: U. S. Food & D r u g Admin .
Denve r , C o l o r a d o
FDA SERVICE DATES: FROM 1929 TO: 1969 RETIRED? Yes
T ITLE: I ndus t r y Re la t i ons O f f i c e r . New York D i s t r i c t ( I f r e t i r e d , t i t l e o f l a s t FDA p o s i t i o n )
CASS. SIDE EST.MIN. SUBJECT No. I no.1 oN TAPE
In t roduc t i on . Sunmary o f Schoonover's FDA Career. Inspect ions under 1906 Act. Adu l te ra ted o l i v e o i l cases. Jake Ginger i n j u r i e s . Packing s tock b u t t e r problem. Short weight b u t t e r cases. Cream Improvement Program. Lead-and a rsen ic spray res idue work. Maggots i n c h e r r i e s and b lueber r i es . Inspector t r a v e l du r ing 1930's. Lead arsenate on c a u l i f l o w e r . McKay McKinnon. McKay McKinnon (cont . ) Inspect ion a u t h o r i t y anecdotes. More on Inspector t r a v e l . Import work. Frozen egg work. She l l egg work. Incubator r e j e c t egg work. Munyon's Remedy case. D r . Carpent ie r case. D r . Carpent ier case (cont . :' I l l e g a l sa les o f Rx drugs work. Drug f a c t o r y inspect ions i n 1930's. Drug sampling surveys.
TAPE INDEX SHEET May 3, 1982 Interviewee: Stuart E. Schoonover Interviewer: Fred L. Lafsvold Page 2 of 2
CASE. SIDE EST.MIN. PAGE NO. NO. ON TAPE NO.
SUBJECT
Walter G. Campbell. W. R. M. Wharton. J. 0. Clarke. Gift package swindle in World War II. Inspection work in 1930's.
Providence resident post. In New England Maple Syrup work.
I I I I " (cont.)
Industry Relations work. Anecdotes of trial experience. Flood work. End of recording.
T h i s i s a r e c o r d i n g i n t h e FDA o r a l h i s t o r y s e r i e s .
I l e a r e r e c o r d i n g t o d a y a n i n t e r v i e w w i t h M r . S t u a r t E .
S c h o o n o v e r a t h i s r e s i d e n c e i n N o o d b r i d g e , New J e r s e y . M r .
S c h o o n o v e r s e r v e d i n t h e Food a n d D r u g A d m i n i s t r a t i o n as a n
i n s p e c t o r a t s e v e r a l l o c a t i o n s and r e t i r e d as I n d u s t r y
g e l a t i o n s O f f i c e r a t t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t . The d a t e i s
May 3 , 1 9 8 2 , i n t e r v i e w e r i s F r e d L o f s v o l d .
L o f s v o l d : M r . S c h o o n o v e r w o u l d y o u b r i e f l y s k e t c h a l i t t
b i t o f y o u r b a c k g r o u n d , w h e r e y o u w e r e b o r n , w h e r e y o u w e r e
e d u c a t e d , a n d w h a t y o u d i d i n FDA?
S c h o o n o v e r : I was b o r n December 2 7 , 1 9 0 4 , P e r t h Amboy, New
J e r s e y . 1 w e n t t h r o u g h my f i r s t y e a r o f h i g h s c h o o l t h e r e
and t h e n moved t o my p r e s e n t a d d r e s s i n W o o d b r i d g e , New
J e r s e y i n 1 9 1 8 . I f i n i s h e d my t h r e e y e a r s o f h i g h s c h o o l
i n W o o d b r i d g e . F r o m t h e r e I w o r k e d b r i e f l y a s a n A s s i s t a n t
C h e m i s t i n H a y d e n C h e m i c a l C o r p o r a t i o n i n F o r d s , New
J e r s e y . I s u b s ? q u e n t l y g r a d u a t e d w i t h a d e g r e e i n h o r t i -
c u l t u r e f r o m I o w a S t a t e U n i v e r s i t y i n 1928 . I t h e n w o r k e d
f o r t h e M o o r e h e a d I n s p e c t i o n B u r e a u , c a r l o t , p e r i s h a b l e
i n s p e c t i o n . A t t h a t t i m e t h e d e p r e s s i o n was b e g i n n i n g
t o b u i l d up, and j o b s w e r e h a r d t o g e t . I w o r k e d i n
P h i l a d e l p h i a , t h e M a n h a t t a n P r o d u c e y a r d s i n New Y o r k a n d
t h e n t r a n s f e r r e d t o C l e v e l a n d .
I t u r n e d a p o s i t i o n w i t h t h e USDA i n Washington down
and t h e n went t o New York f o r one w i t h t h e Food and Drug
A d m i n i s t r a t i o n a t New York. A c t u a l l y , a t t h a t t i m e I had
a t l e a s t a few i d e a s of what t h e Food and Drug A d m i n i s t r a -
t i o n d i d . My p a r e n t s were h e r e and wanted me t o come
home.
W . R . M . Wharton was t h e n D i r e c t o r of t h e E a s t e r n
D i s t r i c t . In t h o s e d a y s t h e y had t h e E a s t e r n D i s t r i c t ,
C e n t r a l and Wes te rn D i s t r i c t s and I worked a t t h e New York
S t a t i o n f o r a b o u t f i v e y e a r s . I was t r a n s f e r r e d , a b o u t
1 9 3 4 , t o t h e Bos ton S t a t i o n and a f t e r b e i n g t h e r e f o r a
l i t t l e o v e r a y e a r I was t r a n s f e r r e d and made, t h e f i r s t
R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r a t P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d . I was
t h e r e f o r a c o u p l e o f y e a r s and came back t o B o s t o n ,
b r i e f l y , and t h e n I was t r a n s f e r r e d t o t h e C h i c a g o S t a t i o n .
J . 0. C l a r k e was t h e n head o f t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t b u t was
D i r e c t o r a t New York when I was t h e r e .
Schoonove r : In t h e Ch icago S t a t i o n I h a n d l e d t h e d r u g work
f o r a w h i l e , c o l l e c t e d hundreds and hundreds o f s a m p l e s
f rom a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e . Then I went o u t on a Cream
Improvement Program t o Omaha and worked a c r o s s , back and
f o r t h t o Nebraskia, Kansas , Oklahoma and A r k a n s a s and t h e n
back t o C h i c a g o a g a i n . A l s o many i n s p e c t i o n s were made of
t o m a t o f a c t o r i e s . I had done a l o t o f c a n n i n g work i n t h e
New York S t a t i o n when I was t h e r e . In t h o s e d a y s t h e New
Y o r k S t a t i o n w e n t c l e a r t o t h e C a n a d i a n b o r d e r . Much o f
t h e summer a n d f a l l was s p e n t w o r k i n g o u t o f A l b a n y and
i n Sy racu ,se , New Y o r k . Then t h e r e w e r e c r e a m e r i e s f r o m
t h e r e t o O g d e n b u r g o n t h e b o r d e r .
F r o m C h i c a g o , a f t e r b e i n g t h e r e t h r e e y e a r s , I was
a s s i g n e d a s a R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r t o C l e v e l a n d .
L o f s v o l d : A b o u t w h a t y e a r was t h a t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W i t h o u t c h e c k i n g my r e c o r d s o n i t d i r e c t l y , I
w o u l d s a y i t was j u s t b e f o r e t h e war , ' 4 2 a b o u t ' 4 1 . I
t o o k c a r e o f a s s i g n m e n t s i n n o r t h e r n O h i o . A b o u t a q u a r t e r
o f lny t i m e was s p e n t i n t h e T o l e d o a r e a , t h e r e was a g r e a t
d e a l o f wo rk t h e r e . B i l l y F o r d was t h e n , o f c o u r s e , . . . C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t C i n c i n n a t i . S t u a r t A . P o s t l e was t h e
S t a t i o n C h i e f a t t h a t t i m e . He u s e d t o c a l l ine some
s p e c i a l name b e c a u s e h i s name was s p e l l e d t h e same as m ine .
A g a i n , a g r e a t d e a l o f c a n n e r y work i n w e s t e r n O h i o and , o f
c o u r s e , I n d i a n a .
T h e n I was t r a n s f e r r e d , d u r i n g t h e f i r s t p a r t o f t h e
war , t o t h e New Y o r k S t a t i o n . T h a t t r a n s f e r came a b o u t
b e c a u s e o f a p a p e r t h a t was s e n t a r o u n d i n d i c a t i n g w h a t
D i s t r i c t s d e s i r e d t r a n s f e r e e s , i f t h e y c o u l d make i t s i n c e
t h e w a r h a d s t a r t e d . We h a d a h o u s e h e r e so , I s a i d t h a t I
w a s n ' t a s k i n g t o go b u t f o r t h e good o f t h e s e r v i c e i f t h e y
w a n t e d me t o go I w o u l d . So, t h e ax f e l l a n d away I w e n t .
I h a d an e x c e l l e n t , w o n d e r f u l t i m e a t C l e v e l a n d . W a l t
Simmons was t h e n C h i e f I n s p e c t o r o f t h e C h i c a g o o f f i c e .
I n New Y o r k ...t r y i n g t o t h i n k , I t h i n k C h a r l i e
H e r r m a n was C h i e f o f t h e S t a t i o n t h e n .
L o f s v o l d : W o u l d M c K i n n o n h a v e b e e n h e r e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : M c C i n n o n ? Yes, M c K i n n o n was t o o . I h a d
w o r k e d w i t h M c K i n n o n as a n i n s p e c t o r , many, many t i m e s . I
c o u l d t e l l y o u a l l s o r t s o f s t o r i e s a b o u t M c K i n n o n , b o y , h e
was q u i t e a man. O f c o u r s e , he has p a s s e d on now. He
p h o n e d me f r o m San F r a n c i s c o when h e was D i r e c t o r t h e r e , a t
o n e t i m e , a n d w a n t e d me t o come o u t a n d b e h i s C h i e f
I n s p e c t o r , b u t t : ha t f e l l t h r o u g h .
L o f s v o l d : And y o u s t a y e d t h e n i n New Y o r k f o r t h e r e s t o f
y o u r c a r e e r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , y e s . F r o m New Y o r k a n d w h i l e p r e v i o u s l y
i n New Y o r k I h a d b e e n i n Newark as R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r , i n
f a c t I s e r v e d o n e t e r m o f e i g h t y e a r s a s R e s i d e n t I n s p e c t o r
a t Newark .
L e t ' s see, t o go b a c k , no, t h e n rom.. .wh i l e a t New
Y o r k I was s e n t a s C h i e f I n s p e c t o r t o t h e C i n c i n n a t i D i s -
t r i c t a n d I w o r k e d t h e r e f o r a c o u p l e o f y e a r s . I t h e n r a n
i n t o some d i f f i c u l t i e s w i t h my home o e r a t io n s a n d I a s k e d
t h a t I b e s e n t b a c k t o New Y o r k , w h i c h t h e y w e r e a g r e e a b l e
t o and s o I r e t u r n e d h e r e much t o my d i s m a y a n d c o n s t e r n a -
t i o n . Some t i m e s y o u h a v e t o do w h a t y o u t h i n k i s b e s t f o r
y o u r l i f e a n d s o i t w o r k e d o u t .
T h e n I was a s s i g n e d , i n t h e u s u a l r o u t i n e o f t h i n g s ,
t o h o l d h e a r i n g s a n d s u p e r v i s o r y i n s p e c t o r work . I w o r k e d
w i t h C h a r l i e H e r r m a n o n many d i f f e r e n t t y p e s o f a s s i g n -
m e n t s , e s p e c i a l l y when we were t r a n s f e r r e d f r o m 2 0 1 V a r i c k
S t r e e t , t h e A p p r a i s e r s S t o r e s B u i l d i n g t o t h e a r o o k l y n
o f f i c e . T h e r e I c o n t i n u e d as S u p e r v i s o r y I n s p e c t o r f o r
s e v e r a l y e a r s and t h e n I was made, I g u e s s , t h e f i r s t
I n d u s t r y R e l a t i o n s O f f i c e r i n t h e c o u n t r y . I w o r k e d u p a
p r o g r a m t h e r e t h a t was v e r y e n j o y a b l e . O f c o u r s e , p z r t l y
made s o b e c a u s e P u e r t o R i c o was i n o u r t e r r i t o r y .
L o f s v o l d : And y o u r e t i r e d i n w h a t y e a r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I r e t i r e d i n 1 9 6 9 .
L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , when y o u f i r s t r e p o r t e d f o r d u t y h e r e i n
New Y o r k , how Inany p e o p l e were i n t h e o f f i c e a t t h a t t i m e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I w o u l d s a y a b o u t t e n I n s p e c t ~ r s . The I m p o r t
D i v i s i o n was i n t h e same r o o m w i t h t h e I n s p e c t o r s and t h e r e
w e r e a b o u t f i v e I mp o r t I n s p e c t o r s . I n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , we
h a n d l e d t h e I n s e c t i c i d e A c t .
L o f s v o l d : And t h e N a v a l S t o r e s A c t a n d t h e C a u s t i c P o i s o n s
A c t .
S c h o o n o v e r : A man b y t h e name o f S m i t h , S m i t t y , was a
N a v a l S t o r e s o p e r a t o r , i n s p e c t o r , and he knew how t o c h i p
r o s i n w i t h a l i t t l e a x e t h e y h a d and s a m p l e i t . I remember
h i m t e l l i n g a s t o r y a b o u t , he was r a i s e d as a b o y i n
G e o r g i a and h i s f a t h e r had a b u s i n e s s , N a v a l S t o r e s , t u r -
p e n t i n e , e t c . , and t h e y h a d a w h o l e d o c k l o a d e d , one t i m e ,
w i t h t u r p e n t i n e a n d r o s i n w a i t i n g f o r a b o a t t o come a n d
p i c k i t up and t h e t h i n g c a u g h t o n f i r e a n d away i t w e n t .
L o f s v o l d : Oh, my.
S c h o o n o v e r : Then f r o m t i m e t o t i m e I was a s s i g n e d , when
t h e i m p o r t men ,were o v e r w o r k e d , t o go o u t a n d h e l p w i t h
c o l l e c t i n g i m p o r t s a m p l e s . I u s e d t o go o u t o n c e i n a
w h i l e e v e n w i t h J o h n n y Z a i c a n d h e l p o n i m p o r t s a n d he, f o r
a w h i l e , was t h e Tea E x a m i n e r i n t h e o f f i c e .
L o f s v o l d : Was H u t c h i n s o n h e r e t h e n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.
L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t when we w o r k e d s e v e n h o u r s a d a y f o r
f i v e d a y s a n d t n e n f i v e h o u r s on S a t u r d a y s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t . Y o u ' r e r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : We w,are s t i l l d o i n g t h a t when I s t a r t e d i n
1 9 3 9 .
S c h o o n o v e r : T h e n I b e l i e v e L i n t o n was h e a d o f t h e F i n a n c e
i n W a s h i n g t o n a n d a b o u t t h a t t i m e h e f o u n d t h a t we w e r e
w o r k i n g o n e h o u r l e s s t h a n we s h o u l d o n S a t u r d a y . So, we
h a d t o w o r k a n e x t r a h o u r and t h a t l o u s e d up t h e t r a i n
s c h e d u l e a n d I c o u l d n ' t p l a y my s e m i - p r o b a l l on S a t u r d a y
a f t e r n o o n .
L o f s v o l d : What k i n d s o f i n d u s t r i e s w e r e y o u i n t o i n t h o s e
d a y s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I was a s s i g n e d , p r i m a r i l y , f o r a l m o s t f i v e
y e a r s , t o c a n d y f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n s . B e l i e v e i t o r n o t we
had a l m o s t 300 f a c t o r i e s m a n u f a c t u r i n g c a n d y . O f c o u r s e ,
as I did, o u r t e r r i t o r y r a n t o t h e C a n a d i a n b o r d e r a n d we
h a d f a c t o r i e s i n Oswego, F u l t o n , a n d a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e .
Many o f t h e m w e r e h a r d c a n d y m a n u f a c t u r e r s , t h e s m a l l t y p e
b u t t h e y d i d s h i p i n i n t e r s t a t e commerce. A l s o , we h a d a t
l e a s t a d o z e n o r more l a r g e c h o c o l a t e m a n u f a c t u r e r s a n d i n
t h o s e d a y s t h e y b o u g h t t h e i r b e a n s and made t h e i r own
c h o c o l a t e . They r o a s t e d , c r a c k e d a n d f a n n e d t h e m e t c .
Now, i n l a t e r y e a r s , many o f t h e c h o c o l a t e m a n u f a c t u r e r s
p u r c h a s e d t h e i r c h o c o l a t e i n t a n k t r u c k l o t s . We h a d a l l
s o r t s o f v i o l a t i o n s a n d l i t e r a l l y h u n d r e d s o f s a m p l e s , a l l
t h e t i m e c h e c k i n g o n t h e a d u l t e r a t i o n , e v e n t h e p e r c e n t a g e
o f f i b e r , when t h e y h a d t o o much o f t h e s h e l l . The t w o
ana y s t s i n t h e l a b o r a t o r y t h a t w e r e m a i n l y r e s p o n s i b l e f o r
ana y s e s w e r e D o r o t h y S c o t t a n d N a r i e O f f u t t and t h e n
J a b o n s k i d i d t h e c o l o r work.
L o f v o l d : T h a t was d o n e a l l u n d e r t h e 1 9 0 6 A c t .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : B e f o r e we h a d t h e a u t h o r i t y f o r f a c t o r y
i n s p e c t i o n s .
S c h o o n o v e r : The new a u t h o r i t y d i d n ' t come u n t i l I was i n
t h e C h i c a y o D i s t r i c t , J . 0. C l a r k e , o f c o u r s e . I m i g h t
m e n t i o n t h a t he s e n t a n o t e a r o u n d t h a t t h e I n s p e c t o r s a l l
h a d t o s t u d y t h e new A c t and t h a t he i n t e n d e d t o s t o p t h e m
i n t h e h a l l w a y s a n d ask q u e s t i o n s o f e v e r y s o r t a n d t h e y
h a d b e t t e r l e a r i . You n e v e r saw s u c h s c u r r y i n g i n a l l y o u r
l i f e a n d h i d i n g a r o u n d c o r n e r s .
L o f s v o l d : T r y i ; i g t o a v o i d J. 0.
S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y w o u l d t a k e a peek f i r s t a n d t h e n go o n
t h e i r way.
L o f s v o l d : I n t h o s e d a y s b e f o r e we h a d a u t h o r i t y i n t h e A c t
t o make f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n s , d i d y o u h a v e much o f a p r o b l e m
o f b e i n g r e f u s e d p e r m i s s i o n t o i n s p e c t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No. The o n l y p r o b l e m was s o m e t i m e s i n t h e
a r e a o f t a k i n g p i c t u r e s . W h i l e t h e A c t v e r y l o o s e l y s a
t h a t we h a d t h e r i g h t t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n t h e e x a c t
a u t h o r i t y wasn ' t : s p e l l e d o u t .
L o f s v o l d : When y o u b r o u g h t a c a s e a g a i n s t o n e o f t h e s e
c a n d y f a c t o r i e s u n d e r t h e 1906 l a w , c o u l d y o u p r e s e n t
t e s t i m o n y a b o u t t h e f a c t o r y i n s p e c t i o n , d u r i n g t h e t r i a l ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, w i t h 1 i m i t a t i o n s .
L o f s v o l d : M o s t l y y o u h a d t o t e s t i f y as t o w h a t t h e l a b o r -
a t o r y f o u n d i n t h e s a m p l e .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I n l a t e r y e a r s , o f c o u r s e , we
d e t a i 1 ed.. . L o f s v o l d : Oh, y e s , t h e ' 3 8 A c t i t c h a n g e d t h i n g s d r a s -
t i c a l l y , b u t I was c u r i o u s a b o u t b e f o r e t h e ' 3 8 A c t w h e t h e r
t h e c o u r t w o u l d l e t y o u t e s t i f y a b o u t w h a t y o u saw i n t h e
f a c t o r y .
S c h o o n o v e r : O f c o u r s e , y o u c o u l d n ' t t e s t i f y a b o u t f i l t h ,
t h a t was f o r s u r e . T h a t w a s n ' t i n c l u d e d i n t h e f i r s t A c t .
I t was m a i n l y on t h e s a m p l e s t h a t w e r e c o l l e c t e d and t h e
f i l t h t h a t was f o u n d . You t e s t i f i e d a s t o t h e i n t e r s t a t e
a c c o u n t a b i l i t y o f t h e samp le . Then t h e c h e m i s t w o u l d t e s -
t i f y w h a t was f o u n d . N o t so much t h e e v i d e n c e o f i n s p e c -
t i o n . W i t h t h e ' 3 8 A c t , o f c o u r s e , t h e n t h a t c l e a r e d t h e
way.
G o i n g b a c k t o P r o v i d e n c e . . . . We d i d a l o t o f w o r k on
t h e t e a s e e d o i l , t h a t t i m e , a d u l t e r a t i o n .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was a d u l t e r a t i n g o f o l i v e o i l w i t h t e a s e e d
o i 1 ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : Yes, I w o u l d l i k e t o h a v e y o u s a y s o m e t h i n g
a b o u t t h a t , how t h a t worked .
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , a s f a r as I c a n remember my p a r t o f i t
h a d o n l y t o do w i t h t h e c o l l e c t i o n o f s a m p l e s a s a n a l y z e d
by t h e 1 a b o r a t o r y .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was J a c k F i t e l s o n , I t h i n k . . . .
S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : J a c k d e v e l o p e d a new a n a l y t i c a l m e t h o d b e c a u s e
when t h e y f i r s t s t a r t e d u s i n g t e a s e e d o i l and we c o u l d n o t
t e l l i t f r o m o l i v e o i l .
S c h o o n o v e r : I t h a d t h e same s q u a l e n e c o n t e n t a b o u t a s
o l i v e o i l and t h e a n a l y s i s as I u n d e r s t a n d was a l i t t l e
d i f f i c u l t t o c h e c k b u t Food a n d D r u g b e i n g t h e s t e r n c h a r -
a c t e r i t was...
L o f s v o l d : Then t h e r e w e r e some l a t e r d e v e l o p e m e n t s i n t h a t
e r a o f t h e o l i v e o i l b u s i n e s s , a s I remember t o o , d i d n ' t
t h e y s t a r t a d d i n g a r t i f i c i a l s q u a l e n e t h a t t h e y b o u g h t f r o m
Koda k ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t , i n B u f f a l o . W e l l , I w o r k e d on
t h a t q u i t e a b i t i n l a t e r y e a r s . We had... I remember t h i s
one o c c a s i o n , t h e y h a d a s e t u p w h e r e t h e r e was a n
i n d i c a t o r p u t i n t o s q u a l e n e i n B u f f a l o a n d t h e y f o l l o w e d
t h a t s h i p m e n t down t o t h e t e r m i n a l , we w a t c h e d i t b e i n g
p i c k e d u p a n d b r o u g h t t o B r o o k l y n a n d t h e c a r w e n t i n t o a
g a r a g e and l a t e r . . . I w a i t e d a l l d a y , I made b e l i e v e my
c a r b r o k e down o u t s i d e t h e m a n ' s h o u s e . He came o u t a n d
w e n t t o t h e s t o r e and when h e o p e n e d up h i s t r u n k t o p u t
h i s g r o c e r i e s i n I q u i c k l o o k e d i n t h e t r u n k , b u t e v i d e n t l y
when h e e n t e r e d t h e g a r a g e t h a t 5 g a l l o n c a n was t a k e n o u t .
I u n d e r s t a n d h e w o u l d d o c t o r u p a t a n k o f o i l , o t h e r t h a n
o l i v e o i l and make i t a n a l y z e l i k e o l i v e o i l .
L o f s v o l d : So, when we t o o k a s a m p l e a n d t o o k i t t o t h e
l a b o r a t o r y we w o u l d f i n d t h e r i g h t k i n d o f c o n s t a n t s f o r
o l i v e o i l , r i g h t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : O n e o f t h e t i m e s w a t c h i n g , i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h
t h a t o p e r a t i o n i n B r o o k l y n , o n e o f t h e men i n v o l v e d who was
c h a r g e d f o r a d u l t e r a t i o n . . . o w n e d a d r u g s t o r e . I was
w a t c h i n g t h i s o n e p l a c e , and t h e r e was a s u s p i c i o u s f e l l o w
c o m i n g and g o i n g i n an o l d d i r t y r a i n c o a t , a l i g h t one, a n d
I t r i e d t o f o l l o w a n d k e e p c h e c k t o s e e i f t h e r e was an
c o n n e c t i o n b e t w e e n d e l i v e r i e s and.. . I n a s h o r t t i m e t h e
F B I v i s i t e d New Y o r k D i s t r i c t a n d w a n t e d t o know w h a t I was
d o i n g w a t c h i n g o n e o f t h e i r men.
L o f s v o l d : T h e y w e r e l o o k i n g f o r h i m t o o .
S c h o o n o v e r : He was i n o n t h e gang some how o r a n o t h e r , h e
was i n t h e d r u g s t o r e . T h e r e a r e a l o t o f s t o r i e s a b o u t . . .
I d i d a l o t o f w o r k o n a d u l t e r a t e d o l i v e o i l .
One t i m e J a c k C a i n was i n B r o o k l y n a n d h e w a t c h i n g
t h r o u g h a k n o t h o l e i n t h e f e n c e a t t h i s o'ne l o c a t i o n w h e r e
t h e y o b v i o u s l y w e r e a d u l t e r a t i n g o l i v e o i l , and t r y i n g t o
g e t l i c e n s e numbers f r o m c a r s , e t c . . . I c a n ' t r e c a l l t h e
name b u t a n o t h e r I n s p e c t o r i n New Y o r k D i s t r i c t w a l k e d
r i g h t i n t o t h e p l a c e a n d b l e w t h e o p e r a t i o n .
L o f s v o l d : I remember t h a t e v e n i n 1 9 5 5 when I came h e r e we
s t i l l w e r e h a v i n g p r o b l e m s w i t h a d u l t e r a t i o n o f o l i v e o i l
a n d I b e l i e v e t h a t y o u w e r e w o r k i n g o n an o i l company t h a t
was o p e r a t e d b y o n e o f t h e b i g g a n g s t e r s o v e r i n B r o o k l y n .
S c h o o n o v e r : O h , y e s , y e s . T h a t d e v e l o p e d i n t o a t r i a l ,
c o u r t c a s e i n B r o o k l y n , and t h e g u y ' s name was P r o f a c i . We
o b t a i n e d a c o u r t o r d e r t o l o o k o v e r t h e r e c o r d s o f some
f i r m h e was c o n n e c t e d w i t h a n d I d i d t h a t w i t h J o h n n y Z a i c
t o g e t p r o o f . Anyway, we f i n a l l y f o r c e d P r o f a c i t o t r i a l .
He h a d p u l l e d a l l s o r t s o f t r i c k s t h r o u g h h i s l a w y e r s , e v e n
a number o f h i s p r i e s t s a n d o t h e r s came i n a n d t o l d t h e
H e a r i n g O f f i c e r w h a t a g r e a t man he was, e t c . , a n d a l s o
w i t h t h e A s s i s t a n t U.S. A t t o r n e y t h a t h a n d l e d t h e c a s e who
h a p p e n e d t o b e a woman. So, I s a t a t t h e c o u n s e l t a b l e i n
f r o n t and s h e came i n t o me j u s t a s t h e t r i a l was a b o u t t o
s t a r t , a l i t t l e e x c i t e d , s h e s a i d , " S t u a r t w h a t s h o u l d I
do, t h a t P r o f a c i g u y t a l k e d t o me i n t h e h a l l w a y a n d
o f f e r e d me a b i g b r i b e ? " I s a i d , " D i d a n y b o d y h e a r y o u ,
was t h e r e a n y w i t n e s s , o r n o t h i n g " , s h e s a i d "No" , I s a i d ,
" W e l l , f o r g e t i t . T h e r e i s n o t h i n g t h a t y o u c a n do a b o u t
i t , i t i s h i s w o r d a g a i n s t y o u r s . " Anyway t h e t r i a l
s t a r t e d , w i t n e s s e s w e r e c a l l e d e t c . , a n d t h e y made a n
a r r a n g e m e n t a n d f o l d e d , h e p l e d a n d p a i d a f i n e a n d t h a t
was i t .
L o f s v o l d : I t h i n k t h a t we w e r e t h e o n l y F e d e r a l a g e n c y
t h a t e v e r g o t a n y k i n d o f a c o n v i c t i o n o n h im. He seemed
t o h a v e a c h a r m e d l i f e .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . T h e n g o i n g b a c k , remember t h o s e d a y s
...t h e J a k e G i n ~ e r t r i a l ?
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was b e f o r e I s t a r t e d , b u t t h a t i s a s u b j e c t
t h a t I w o u l d l i k e t o g e t a n y t h i n g t h a t y o u c a n t e l l me
a b o u t i t .
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , o f c o u r s e , t h a t c a s e , e x t r a c t o f o l e o r e -
s i n o f p i n e t r e e r e s i n , t h e y u s e d i t t o make u p a
p r o d u c t t h a t t a s t e d s o m e t h i n g l i k e G i n g e r . I t o p e r a t e d i n
p a r t b e t w e e n t h e Hub P r o d u c t s i n B o s t o n and a n a r e a i n Sush
T e r m i n a l , I b e l i e v e , i n B r o o k l y n . D i s t r i b u t i o n o f J a k e
G i n g e r was made d u r i n g p r o h i b i t i o n and y o u c o u l d b u y a
1 0 6 b o t t l e , o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t , a n d down i t and i t
w o u l d g i v e y o u t h e same b u r n i n g e f f e c t , a s w h i s k e y .
L o f s v o l d : T h i s was an e x t r a c t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : E x t r a c t .
L o f s v o l d : E x t r a c t o f g i n g e r t h a t was u s e d as a b e v e r a g e i n
p r o h i b i t i o n d a y s , a n d t h e s e f e l l o w s w e r e m a k i n g a k i n d o f
i m i t a t i o n o f i t .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I t was d o w n - r i g h t p o i s o n o u s . I n
g e t t i n g t h e i n f o r m a t i o n and p r o o f a g a i n s t t h e f i r m i n
B r o o k l y n , I remember P h i l Jackman g a v e them, n o t n e c e s -
s a r i l y a b r i b e , b u t g a v e an amount o f money t o t h e j a n i t o r
i n t h e p l a c e . He p u t t h e p a p e r s f r o m t h e i r o f f i c e i n t o a
s e p a r a t e b a g a n d many o f t h e m w e r e t o r n i n l i t t l e b i t s ,
e t c . W e l l , we k e p t t h e w h o l e c r e w a f t e r h o u r s , n i g h t a f t e r
n i g h t when t h o s e bags came b a c k a n d some w e r e f a i r l y l a r g e
and j u s t l i k e p u t t i n g t o g e t h e r a c r o s s w o r d p u z z l e , and t h e n
t a p e d t h e m t o g e t h e r a n d h a d t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n as t o names,
p l a c e s , d a t e s , a n d w h a t h a v e y o u . F i n a l l y t h e y w e r e c a u g h t
up w i t h .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t r e s u l t e d i n a number s e r i o u s i n j u r i e s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . T h e y h a d l a t e r o n when I w o r k e d i n
F a l l R i v e r , a n d New B e d f o r d , t h e y h a d r e g u l a r c l u b s o r
a s s o c i a t i o n s . The p r o d u c t e f f e c t e d t h e e x t r e m i t i e s , e y e s ,
e t c . They c r i p p l e d a n i n d i v i d u a l a n d t h e y s t a y e d t h a t way
f o r t h e r e s t o f t h e i r l i f e . So many d r a n k i t t h a t t h e y h a d
1 i t t l e c l u b s . . .
A n o t h e r p r ~ ~ d u c tt h a t . . . a b i t o f w o r k t h a t l a t e r , I
d o n ' t t h i n k y o u h a v e t h a t p r o b l e m now, was c a l l e d p a c k i n g
s t o c k b u t t e r i n t h e e a r l y days . I n t h e m i d w e s t p a r t i c u -
l a r l y , p e o p l e w i t h a c o u p l e o f cows o r s o w o u l d c h u r n o u t
some b u t t e r a n d b r i n g i t i n wax p a p e r , e t c . a n d t r a d e i t
f o r g r o c e r i e s a n d t h e g r o c e r y s t o r e o w n e r w o u l d t h r o w i t
i n t o a b a r r e l u n d e r t h e c o u n t e r a n d when i t g o t f u l l , p u t a
c l o t h o v e r i t , b u r l a p , a n d s h i p i t t o t h e b u t t e r d e a l e r s i n
New Y o r k . O f c o u r s e , t h e d i f f i c u l t y t h e r e was t h a t i t was
l o a d e d w i t h i n s e c t s a n d e v e r y t h i n g e l s e t h a t h a d c r a w l e d
i n t o t h e b a r r e l .
L o f s v o l d : I t w o u l d b e s e v e r a l d a y s w h i l e he was accumu-
l a t i n g t h i s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . We c o n s t a n t l y c h e c k e d o n p a c k i n g s t o c k
b u t t e r f r o m t h e d e a l e r s t h a t r e c e i v e d i t i n New Y o r k .
L o f s v o l d : What d i d t h e y d o w i t h i t t h e n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h e y p u t i t up.
L o f s v o l d : They j u s t p r i n t e d i t as i s and s o l d i t a s
b u t t e r ?
Schoonove r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : So , even i f i t w a s n ' t d i r t y when t h e f a r m e r
d e l i v e r e d i t , t h e r e was an a w f u l l y good c h a n c e t h a t by t h e
t i m e i t was p r i n t e d t h a t i t had p i c k e d s o m e t h i n g u p a l o n g
t h e way.
Schoonove r : R i g h t . Low s c o r e b u t t e r . Then t h e r e was
c o n s i d e r a b l e work s o m e t i m e s , I d o n ' t know, t h e y p r o b a b l y
w o u l d n ' t do i t n o w , b u t remember t h e J a c k r a b b i t s i n Kansas
and o u t t h a t way. They would k i l l them and th row them i n t o
a b a r r e l , p u t b u r l a p on i t and s h i p i t t o New York.
O n one o c c a s i o n I was a s s i g n e d t o work on t h e s h o r t
we igh t pound p r i n t s o f b u t t e r . I worked a f u l l summer on
d o i n g m o s t l y t h a t , t r a v e l i n g t o e v e r y b u t t e r d e a l e r and any
p l a c e t h a t had any amount of b u t t e r , w i t h a G u r l e y b a l a n c e .
The b u t t e r v e n d o r s were l o c a t e d , a b o u t a h a l f a dozen o r
more, i n New York C i t y . They would s h i p t o J e r s e y , d e a l e r s
would phone i n and want s o many c a s e s . W e l l , t h e y would
a lways t r y t o d e l i v e r , i f a 6 4 pound t u b was o r d e r e d , t h e y
would a lways t r y t o d e l i v e r 64 pounds . B u t you know i t was
i m p o s s i b l e b e c a u s e when you s q u e e z e i t ou t you have some
w a t e r d r i p p i n g o u t of t h e mach ine , t h e r e i s a l w a y s a l i t t l e
l o s s . O n one o c c a s i o n t h e d e a l e r i n i n v o i c i n g New J e r s e y
showed t h e o v e r a g e o f two pounds.
L o f s v o l d : You mean t h e y g o t 6 6 pounds o u t of a 6 4 pound
t u b ?
S c h o o o n o v e r : Yes. So t h a t y e a r , I g u e s s i t was a b o u t 1 9
s e i z u r e s o f b u t t e r i n New J e r s e y , p r i n t e d by t h e New Y o r k
b u t t e r p r i n t e r s . T h e r e Mas s o much g o i n g on, t h a t N r .
W h a r t o n c a l l e d a m e e t i n g o f a l l t h e b u t t e r p r i n t e r s a n d
t h e y g o t t o a r g u i n g a n d t h e n a c c u s i n g one a n o t h e r s a y i n g
t h a t , " W e l l , y o u p r i n t e d s h o r t w e i g h t a n d i n o r d e r t o s t a y
i n b u s i n e s s I h a d t o p r i n t s h o r t w e i g h t " . So a f t e r t h o s e
s e i z u r e s t h e s h o r t w e i g h t c l e a r e d up, a t l e a s t f o r a w h i l e .
L o f s v o l d : You s p o k e o f t h e t u b s o f b u t t e r , w e r e t h e y
l i t e r a l l y t u b s i n t h o s e d a y s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . They w e r e r o u n d t u b s .
L o f s v o l d : O u t w e s t w h a t we h a d w e r e t h e c u b e s , t h e y
w e i g h t e d 6 4 p o u n d s b u t t h e y w e r e s q u a r e b o x e s , b u t I h a d
n e v e r s e e n t h e m u s e t u b s .
S c h o o n o v e r : We' l l , I g u e s s i t was c h e a p e r l a t e r on t o p u t a
p a r c h m e n t in s i d e o f t h a t c a r d b o a r d , b u t i n t h e e a r l y d a y s
t h e b u t t e r was s h i p p e d i n r e g u l a r t u b s .
L o f s v o l d : Wooden t u b s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y w o u l d d e l i v e r b a r g e l o a d s a c r o s s t h e
r i v e r i n New Y o r k a n d we w o u l d go down t o t h e p i e r s a n d we
w o u l d h a v e t o t a k e t h e t u b s a n d l i n e t h e m up a c c o r d i n g l y t o
c h u r n numbers . Then y o u t a k e a c c o r d i n g t o p r e s c r i b e d sam-
p l i n g m e t h o d s s o many u n i t s f r o m e a c h c h u r n . T h e y h a d a n
a r r a n g e m e n t w i t h t h e New York B u t t e r A s s o c i a t i o n , when we
p h o n e d t h e b u t t e r was d e l i v e r e d f r o m t h e p i e r , b u t h e w o u l d
h o l d t h a t b u t t e r b e f o r e u s i n g , awa i t i n g w o r d f r o m u s , f r o m
o u r l a b o r a t o r y , w h e t h e r i t was s a t i s f a c t o r y o r n o t . I t
w o r k e d a l l r i g h t .
One o f t h e p r o b l e m s i n v o l v e d i n s a m p l i n g on t h e p i e r ,
was t h e w i n d on t h e p i e r . The d i r t w o u l d f l y a r o u n d . I f
y o u w e r e n ' t q u i c k e n o u g h y o u w o u l d h a v e p e p p e r on t h e s u r -
f a c e o f t h e b u t t e r .
L o f s v o l d : C o n t a m i n a t e t h e b u t t e r w h i l e s a m p l i n g i t . You
were l o o k i n g t h e n f o r t h e 80% f a t , I suppose .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , h i g h m o s i t u r e . -L o f s v o l d : D i d t h a t b u t t e r m o s t l y come f r o m w h a t t h e
m i d w e s t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : You m e n t i o n e d e a r l i e r when y o u w e r e s k e t c h i n g
y o u r c a r e e r t h a t a t C h i c a g o y o u w e r e i n v o l v e d i n a Cream
I m p r o v e m e n t P r o g r a m .
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, a Cream I m p r o v e m e n t P r o g r a m .
L o f s v o l d : C o u l d y o u t a l k a l i t t l e a b o u t t h a t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h e i n s p e c t o r s w e r e t r a i n e d on t h e t a s t -
i n g o f s a m p l e s , w h e t h e r i t was a t e r r i f i c a l l y c h e e s e y
t a s t e , a h i g h a c i d w h i c h w o u l d make y o u r t e e t h s h i v e r when
y o u t a s t e d i t , a t a s t e t h a t i s r e m i n i s c e n t o f a d i r t y
s e p a r a t o r , and o t h e r k i n d s o f t a s t e s .
L o f s v o l d : These w e r e t a s t e s t o d e t e c t a c t u a l s p o i l a g e ,
d e c o m p o s i t i o n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was t h e one w h e r e y o u t o o k t h e g l a s s r o d
a n d d i p p e d i t i n , was t h a t t h e a c c e p t e d m e t h o d f o r t a s t i n g ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , f r o m C h i c a g o t h e r e , t h e i n s p e c t o r s w o u l d
go t o t h e C i t y D e p a r t m e n t o f H e a l t h a n d b e i n o c u l a t e d f o r
a n y d i s e a s e s t h a t m i g h t c r o p u p i n t a s t i n g . One o f t h e
~ n a i n b a d t a s t e s was t h e c h e e s e y t a s t e f r o m a n a d v a n c e d
s t a g e o f d e c o m p o s i t i o n . A n o t h e r was f r o m o b n o x i o u s weeds
i n p a s t u r e s i n A r k a n s a s , Ok lahoma a n d t h e b o r d e r l i n e a r e a s .
Some o f t h o s e weeds h a v e a v e r y f o u l t a s t e , a n d y o u
c o u l d n ' t d e c i d e w h e t h e r i t was t h e b a d c r e a m d e c o m p o s i t i o n
o r due t o t h e weeds. Once i n a w h i l e t h e b u t t e r o p e r a t o r
i n t h e p l a c e t h a t h a d a l r e a d y t a s t e d t h e c r e a m w o u l d g i v e
t h e c r e a m c a n a k i c k , k n o w i n g l y y o u know a n d w a n t y o u t o
t h r o w t h a t o u t , b u t y o u s t i l l c o u l d n ' t t a k e h i s word . O f
c o u r s e , i f i t was j u s t a p o o r t a s t e , i t w a s n ' t decomposed.
I remember o n e t i m e i n n o r t h e r n I n d i a n a , G e o r g e Sooy
w o r k e d w i t h me, o n c e i n a w h i l e , anyway a t t h i s p l a c e I
t a s t e d t h e cream1 a n d i t was r e a l l y r o t t e n . I p u t a t a g o n
t h e c o n t a i n e r , t h e y c o u l d e i t h e r p u t b l u e d y e i n t o i t o r
g r o u n d c o a l a n d t h e y c o u l d i n f a c t t a k e i t b a c k a n d u s e i t
f o r h o g f e e d . I remember t h i s was o n e o f t h e s e c t s . . .
L o f s v o l d : The A m i s h ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I c o u l d s e e h i m s a y i n g , h e h a d b r o u g h t i n t w o
c a n s f r o m t h i s w i d o w , h e s a i d , " T h e w i d o w i s n o t g o i n g t o
l i k e t h i s " .
L o f s v o l d : You j u s t condemned i t o n t h e s p o t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.
L o f s v o l d : E v e n t h o u g h we d i d n ' t h a v e l e g a l a u t h o r i t y t o d o
S O .
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : Were t h e s t a t e s i n v o l v e d i n t h i s t o o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : The s t a t e s were w i t h u s s o m e t i m e s , b u t n o t
v e r y much.
I remember i n Muskogee, Ok lahoma I h a d a l i t t l e c o n -
f r o n t a t i o n t h e r e w i t h t h e S w i f t C r e a m e r y a n d I condemned
a b o u t h a l f o f t h e i r d a y s ' r e c e i p t s . I t h i n k ... I h a d t o go
b a c k t h e n e x t m o r n i n g , anyway t h a t c r e a m t h a t I condemned
was gone. T h e y h a d s p i r i t e d i t away t o a n o t h e r c r e a m e r y ,
a t some d i s t a n c e , a n d L e o Cramer was t h e n C h i e f I n s p e c t o r
a t C h i c a g o D i s t r i c t . He h a p p e n e d t o b e a t t h i s c r e a m e r y
w h e r e t h e y b r o u g h t i t i n and h e condemned i t a g a i n .
L o f s v o l d : Was C r a m e r a t C h i c a g o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. He was C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t Kansas C i t y ... L o f s v o l d : Yes, I remember h e was a r e s i d e n t o f Omaha a n d
Kansas C i t y a n d D e n v e r , b u t I d i d n ' t know t h a t h e h a d
s e r v e d i n C h i c a g o t o o .
W e l l , t h a t was r e a l l y a n o r g a n i z e d c a m p a i g n j u s t t o
t r y t o do s o m e t h i n g a b o u t t h e u s e o f b a d c r e a m i n b u t t e r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : A l l t h r o u g h t h e m i d w e s t ? Was t h a t one o f M r .
C l a r k e ' s p r o j e c t s , o r was i t b e i n g d o n e a l l o v e r t h e
c o u n t r y ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I d o n ' t know how i t o r i g i n a t e d , w h e t h e r i t was
i n t h e A d m i n i s t r a t i o n o r w h a t , b u t t h e r e was a n a w f u l l o t
o f b a d c r e a m i n t h o s e d a y s . Some o f i t w o u l d come f r o m a
f a r m e r t h a t h a d a f e w cows a n d he w o u l d h a v e t o k e e p i t f o r
a b o u t 1 0 d a y s a ~ i d t h e y w o u l d h a v e , s o m e t i m e s i n t h e b a r n , a
l i t t l e c e m e n t t r o u g h w i t h a l i t t l e w a t e r i n i t , t a k e t h e
c o v e r o f f t h e c a n a n d l e a v e i t s t a n d t h e r e . . . I t was t h e
i n s p e c t o r ' s d e c i s i o n i n t h e f i e l d , s o m e t i m e s , when t h e c a n
was dumped o u t o n t o t h e s c r e e n o f a 5 0 0 g a l l o n t a n k a n d
t h e l a s t c a n c o n t a i n e d a d e a d r a t , w h a t t o d o a b o u t i t .
When y o u a r e i n s p e c t i n g c a n s l i k e t h e y d i d a t Omaha, some-
t i m e s t h e y w o u l d h a v e o v e r a 1 ,000 c a n s , l i k e o n a S u n d a y
a f t e r n o o n t h a t h a d come i n a n d i f y o u h a d one f l y , s u p p o s e
y o u l e t t h a t go, b u t i f y o u h a d 5 f l i e s a n d s i x g r a s s -
h o p p e r s , when d c y o u condemn i t ? T h e r e i s n o b o d y t h e r e t o
t e l l y o u w h a t t c do a n d a c t u a l l y I d o n ' t t h i n k a n y b o d y
w o u l d w a n t t o t e l l y o u . You make t h e d e c i s i o n y o u r s e l f a n d
t h e y w o u l d c l o s e t h e i r e y e s , b u t i t d i d r e p r e s e n t a n
e c o n o m i c 1 oss .
L o f s v o l d : E s p e c i a l l y , t o t h e c r e a m e r y i f t h e b a d c r e a m
w e n t i n t o t h e t a n k w i t h a l l t h e r e s t o f i t .
S c h o o n o v e r : Some o f t h e c r e a m came f r o m T e x a s i n t o
Ok lahoma. They d i d n ' t h a v e r e f r i g e r a t e d t r u c k s t o a n y
g r e a t e x t e n t a n d t h e y w o u l d t h r o w a w e t t a r p a u l i n o v e r t h e
t o p o f t h e c a n s a n d s o m e t i m e s t h e t e m p e r a t u r e , l i k e i n
W i c h i t a e v e n , I remember , a b o u t 114 i n t h e s h a d e a n d t h e
s t u f f w o u l d warm u p i n a h u r r y .
L o f s v o l d : Be b o i l i n g o u t o f t h e c a n s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I remember o n e t i m e . . . o n c e i n a w h i l e when y o u
w e r e i n a h u r r y y o u ' d c u t t h e w i r e s t h a t h e l d t h e c o v e r on.
Once when I c u t t h e w i r e t h e t h i n g b l e w u p f r o m t h e p r e s -
s u r e i n s i d e a n d t h e r o t t e n c r e a m h i t t h e c e i l i n g a n d came
down on my s h i r t . L i t t l e t h i n g s t h a t y o u remember .
I n F a y e t t e v i l l e , A r k a n s a s , i n t h e summer t i m e t h e
c r e a m e r y opened, j u s t as i t was g e t t i n g d a y l i g h t . So i t
w o u l d b e a l i t t l e c o o l e r t o w o r k . I s a t ii my c a r w a t c h i n g
a l l t h e c r e a m c a n s t h a t w e r e l i n e d u p o n t h e p l a t f o r m w a i t -
i n g t o b e d r a g g e d i n a n d dumped and when t h e y t u r n e d t h e
l i g h t s o n t h e w h o l e p l a t f o r m j u s t moved w i t h c o c k r o a c h e s .
L o f s v o l d : Oh no.
S c h o o n o v e r : I n a b o u t 3 0 s e c o n d s t h e y w e r e a l l gone. Wher -
e v e r t h e y wen t . T h e y l i v e d o n c r e a m t h a t s p i l l e d .
L o f s v o l d : T h i n k i n g a b o u t t h a t p e r i o d , we h a v e a l a r g e
number o f p i c t u r e s t h a t w e r e a p p a r e n t l y a c o l l e c t i o n o f M r .
L a r r i c k ' s , p i c t u r e s o f FDA p e r s o n n e l , m o s t l y i n s p e c t o r s ,
and one g r o u p i s c a l l e d t h e F l y i n g Squad . D i d y o u e v e r
h e a r o f t h a t t e r m o r h a v e any i d e a w h a t t h a t m e a n t ?
0 S c h o o n o v e r : I t s t r k e s a d i s t a n t c h o r d , b u t I d o n ' t know.
L o f s v o l d : Somebody was s p e c u l a t i n g t h a t i t r e f e r r e d t o a
g r o u p o f i n s p e c t o r s who w e r e s p e c i a l l y t r a i n e d i n f r a u d
work a n d t r a v e l e d a 11 o v e r t h e c o u n t r y d o i n g t h a t k i n d o f
w o r k . I t i s n o t one t h a t y o u r e c o g n i z e ?
Uhen y o u w e r e d o i n g t h i s c r e a m work t h e n y o u d i d n
s t a y w i t h i n y o u r own s t a t i o n t e r r i t o r y , y o u t r a v e l e d a
o v e r t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t .
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . You w e r e away, f o r i n s t a n c e , y o u
s t a r t e d o u t r i g h t a f t e r t h e 4 t h o f J u l y a n d g o t home f o r
L a b o r Day. My w i f e s a i d s h e was g o i n g t o d i v o r c e me, a n d I
g e t home f o r L a b o r Day a n d I am s e n t u p t o a r o u n d T r a v e r s e
C i t y , M i c h i g a n a n d d i d n ' t g e t home u n t i l a r o u n d
T h a n k s g i v i n g .
L o f s v o l d : Up t h e r e , w h a t was i t c a n n i n g o f . . .
S c h o o n o v e r : S p r a y r e s i d u e .
L o f s v o l d : Oh, s p r a y r e s i d u e . ... S c h o o n o v e r : 0 rc :ha rds a n d s o f o r t h . I t was a n a r e a w h e r e
t h e r e h a d b e e n a p p a r e n t l y l i t t l e w o r k done. I g o t i n t o
s o r t o f a h a s s l e , i n f a c t , t h i s o n e f e l l o w l e t i t b e known
t h a t h e was g o i r ~ g t o s h o o t me t h e n e x t t i m e h e saw me a n d I
was t h r o w n o u t o f h i s o r c h a r d . I h a d f o u n d some h i g h r e s i -
due and i n o r d e r t o g e t s a m p l e s I h a d t o go down a t 1 2
o ' c l o c k a t n i g h t , a t one o f t h e f r e i g h t p l a c e s w h e r e
b e f o r e t h e c a r t h a t h e h a d l o a d e d w i t h a p p l e s was d r a g g e d
on t o t h e m a i n l i n e , m a i n f r e i g h t l i n e , and b r e a k t h e s e a l
and g e t i n t o t h e c a r and t a k e my s a m p l e s , b e c a u s e he
w o u l d n ' t l e t me do i t i n t h e o r c h a r d . T h a t was l i k e l y why
he was g o i n g t o s h o o t me.
I t was i n t e r e s t i n g l a t e r a t Man i s t e e , M i c h igan,
S a t u r d a y a f t e r n o o n I w a l k e d i n t o a f r e i g h t o f f i c e t o g e t
r e c o r d s a n d h e was s i t t i n g t h e r e w i t h some o f h i s c r o n i e s .
E v e r y t h i n g w e n t dead. I wen t a b o u t my b u s i n e s s a n d h e d i d
n o t h i n g .
L o f s v o l d : T h i s was t h e l e a d and a r s e n i c p r o b l e m ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.
L o f s v o l d : P r i o r t o W o r l d War 11. D i d y ou do much o f
work when y o u w e r e a t New York o r B o s t o n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , New York . . . oh y e s . I n New Y o r k p a r t i -
c u l a r l y n w i n Monmouth C o u n t y , t h e r e a r e s t i l l a number o f
o r c h a r d s , a l s o i n New Y o r k S t a t e i n t h e H u d s o n V a l l e y , a n d
C h e r r y Va l e y , f r o m A l b a n y t o S y r a c u s e . T h r o u g h R h i n e b e c k ,
New P a l t z T i v o l i , Hudson, New Y o r k a l l t h r o u g h t h e r e t h e r e
i s s t i l l a b i g f r u i t i n d u s t r y .
I remember one t i m e a t Germantown, t h e y h a d a c o l d
p a c k i n g p l a n t , a n d I was c h e c k i n g t h e c h e r r i e s b r o u g h t i n .
You w o u l d t a k e a no. 2 c a n a n d c o o k t h e m up a n d p u t t h e m i n
a p a n w i t h a b l a c k b o t t o m and l o o k f o r t h e m a g g e t s . One # 2
s i z e c a n h a d a l m o s t as many m a g g o t s as i t d i d c h e r r i e s . I
w e n t b a c k a n d c h e c k e d a n d f o u n d t h a t a n u n d e r t a k e r h a d
b o u g h t a n a b a n d o n e d f a r m w i t h c h e r r y t r e e s on i t . He h a d
h i r e d somebody t o c h o p t h e t r e e s down a n d t h e n p i c k e d t h e
c h e r r i e s o f f a n d b r o u g h t t h e m t o t h e c o l d p a c k i n g p l a n t .
~ o f s v o l d . N e v e r h a d b e e n s p r a y e d o r a n y t h i n g ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No. T h o s e c h e r r i e s n e v e r g o t c o l d p a c k e d t h a t
y e a r .
L o f s v o l d : T h e r e w e r e c a n n e r i e s i n t h a t same a r e a t o o ,
c a n n i n g f r u i t o r was i t j u s t s h i p p e d f r e s h ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I t was m o s t l y s h i p p e d f r e s h . The c a n n e r i e s i n
New Y o r k s t a t e , a t o n e t i m e , c a n n e d s t r i n g b e a n s , c o r n ,
p e a s , e t c . , b u t a g o o d p a r t o f t h a t i n d u s t r y moved t o t h e
m i d w e s t a f t e r t h a t .
L o f s v o l d : They w e r e u p i n t h e Nohawk V a l l e y a n d i n t h a t
a r e a ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. I n t h a t a r e a .
G o i n g b a c k t o t h e c a n n i n g i n d u s t r y , w o r k i n g o u t o f
Z o s t o n o n e t i m e a n d c o m i n g f r o m F r y e b u r g , M a i n e t h e y h a d a
20% c o r n i n f e s t a t i o n t h e r e a n d y o u c h e c k e d w i t h t h e C o u n t y
A g e n t s a n d o t h e r s a s y o u go a l o n g a n d t h e y h a d d i f f i c u l t y
t h e r e , o f c o u r s e . Then i n t h o s e d a y s t o o y o u c h e c k e d t h e
g a r b a g e wagons a n d s o f o r t h t o s e e i f t h e y w e r e u s i n g a n y
s a c c h a r i n e i n p l a c e o f s u g a r as a s w e e t e n e r , w h i c h h a p p e n e d
s o m e t i m e s .
L o f s v o l d : I n c o r n ? I n t h e e a r l y p a r t o f t h e p a c k .
S c h o o n o v e r : I remember one t i m e i n New J e r s e y , h e r e , down
a t F r e e h o l d , I was i n a r a i l r o a d s t a t i o n c h e c k i n g l a t e i n
t h e day , r e c o r d s f o r f r e i g h t s h i p m e n t s a n d I l o o k e d a c r o s s
t h e way t o a t o m a t o p l a n t i n o p e r a t i o n . I n e v e r knew i t
was t h e r e a n d i t was r i g h t o n t h e e d g e o f t h e d i v i d i n g l i n e
f o r t h e P h i l a d e l p h i a D i s t r i c t . I t o o k a q u i c k l o o k a t
them, and b o y t h e y w e r e g o i n g t h r o u g h t h r e e a n d f o u r d e e p
o n t h e l i n e , w i t h n o b o d y c h e c k i n g them, w i t h m o l d a n d w h a t
h a v e y o u , so t h a t f i r m w e n t o u t o f b u s i n e s s i n a h u r r y . I
r e p o r t e d i t t o P h i l a d e l p h i a D i s t r i c t .
L o f s v o l d : You w e r e m e n t i o n i n g , was i t b l u e b e r r i e s , c h e c k -
i n g t h e m f o r m a g g o t s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . We d i d a c o n s i d e r a b l e amoun t o f wo rk
e v e r y y e a r . O f c o u r s e , i n s p e c t o r s s o m e t i m e s w o u l d r i d e t h e
b o a t down f r o m M a i n e a n d t h e r e were a l o t o f b l u e b e r r i e s
p i c k e d w i l d i n f l a i n e , a n d s h i p p e d t o t h e New York m a r k e t
and t h e y w o u l d t a k e s a m p l e s a n d r u n t h e m c o m i n g down.
L o f s v o l d : E x a m i n e w h i l e t h e y w e r e i n t r a n s i t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . Cook t h e m u p a n d p u t t h e m i n t o a t a l l
d e e p c o n t a i n e r o f some k i n d a n d t h e n d e c a n t t h e c o l o r o f f
and t h e n y o u w o u l d h a v e t h e s o l i d m a t e r i a l a n d p u t i t i n a
p a n w i t h a b l a c k b o t t o m a n d p i c k o u t t h e l i t t l e worms a n d
i f t h e r e w e r e o v e r 3 m i l l i m e t e r s ; s o m e t i m e s y o u w o u l d h a v e
a w h o l e mess o f l i t t l e t i n y ones bu t . . . One t h i n g t h a t I
r e c a l l , and I f e l t s o s o r r y f o r t h e i n d i v i d u a l s , a g r o u p o f
p e o p l e i n P e n n s y l v a n i a , d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n h a d a p p a r -
e n t l y p u t t h e i r r e s o u r c e s t o g e t h e r a n d p i c k e d a w h o l e t r u c k
l o a d o f w i l d b l u e b e r r i e s , i n c r a t e s , 3 2 q u a r t s i n a c r a t e ,
a n d s e n t t h e m t o t h e New Y o r k m a r k e t . W e l l , i n t h a t w o r k ,
y o u t r a m p a r o u n d a l l n i g h t l o n g e s p e c i a l l y a t t h e
U a s h i n g t o n m a r k ' e t , go o u t t o G a n s e v o o r t , s o m e t i m e s t h e
Newark m a r k e t a n d i f y o u saw l i t t l e l o o p e r s c r a w l i n g on t h e
o u t s i d e o f t h e c r a t e y o u knew t h a t t h e r e was s o m e t h i n g
c o c k e y e d w i t h t i e b l u e b e r r i e s i n t h e r e . I t o o k a s a m p l e ,
b a c k t o t h e l a b o r a t o r y a n d r a n a q u i c k t e s t a n d t h e y w e r e
t e r r i b l e . Ue h a d t o condemn t h e w h o l e l o a d .
A n o t h e r t i m e f o l l o w i n g a s e i z u r e o f b l u e b e r r i e s , I
w e n t w i t h t h e U.S. M a r s h a l i n t h e M a r k e t D i s t r i c t i n New
Y o r k a n d t h e c r a t e s d i d n ' t f e e l q u i t e r i g h t . When y o u
l i f t e d t h e m u p L o t a k e t h e i n c i n e r a t o r . I n t h o s e d a y s ,
t h e y t o o k t h e m u p o n t h e E a s t R i v e r a n d b u r n e d them. T h e r e
w e r e a d j o i n i n g c e l l a r s a n d somebody h a d l e f t t h e t o p l a y e r
a n d h a d p u t m o l d y c h e r r r i e s a n d e v e r y t h i n g e l s e i n t h e
o t h e r l a y e r s u n d e r n e a t h . T h e y g o t away w i t h s e v e r a l l a y e r s
o f b l u e b e r r i e s t o s e l l . I w e n t u p t o W i l k e s - B a r r e ,
P e n n s y l v a n i a t o make an i n v e s t i g a t i o n , b u t y o u j u s t
c o u l d n ' t make t h e f a c t s j e l l a f t e r a t h i n g l i k e t h a t
happened .
L o f s v o l d : I f a n y b o d y h a d s t o l e n t h e b l u e b e r r i e s a n d
h a d s u b s t i t u t e d o t h e r b a d f r u i t f o r them.
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t was a n o t h e r c o n t e s t we had. E v e r y o n c e
i n a w h i l e y o u w o u l d meet some o b s t r e p e r o u s i n d i v i d u a l s
t h a t d i d n ' t w a n t t h e i r p r o d u c t s s e i z e d and t h e y w o u l d p u t
u p a f i g h t f o r i t . I r e i n e n t e r one t i m e i n P r o v i d e n c e we
s e i z e d some b a n d a g e s t h a t w e r e n o t s t e r i l e and I w e n t w i t h
t h e U.S. M a r s h a l , h e was a b i g f e l l o w t h a t w e i g h e d a b o u t
300 p o u n d s , l o u d v o i c e a n d t h e owner r e f u s e d t o show u s
w h e r e t h e g o o d s w e r e a n d s a i d h e h a d s o l d them. I was
p o s i t i v e h e h a d n ' t s o l d . The m a r s h a l s a i d . " G e t ' e m , e i t h e r
I b r i n g t h o s e i n o r b r i n g y o u i n " . W e l l , h e r a i s e d a t r a p
d o o r b e h i n d t h e c o u n t e r and w e n t down t h e c e l l a r a n d g o t
them. The same t h i n g h a p p e n e d one t i m e w i t h a l o a d o f p e a s
t h a t I h a d s a m p l e d , t h e f e l l a t r i e d t o h i d e them.
L o f s v o l d : On t h i s b l u e b e r r y work d i d y o u a l s o work o n t h e
s t u f f c o m i n g i n f r o m Canada?
S c h o o n o v e r : N o t t o a g r e a t e x t e n t , no.
L o f s v o l d : O r d i d we g e t C a n a d i a n b l u e b e r r i e s i n t h o s e
days .
S c h o o n o v e r : O c c a s i o n a l l y , t o my k n o w l e d g e , b u t m o s t o f i t
was t h e s t a t e o f M a i n e .
L o f s v o l d : I see.
I n t h o s e e a r l y d a y s , S t u , d i d F D A h a v e a f l e e t o f c a r s
f o r t h e i n s p e c t o r s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No, y o u h a d t w o o r t h r e e c a r s , t h a t was a b o u t
a l l . On y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s y o u w e n t o u t t o . . . f o r i n s t a n c e ,
y o u t o o k t h e t r a i n t o S c r a n t o n , w h i c h y o u c o u l d d r i v e now
i n a c o u p l e o f h o u r s , b u t t h a t was a n o v e r n i g h t t r i p , y o u
t o o k a s l e e p e r and y o u h a d y o u r G u r l e y b a l a n c e p l u s y o u r
s u i t c a s e a n d y o u r g r i p w i t h 11 y o u r p a p e r s a n d s o f o r t h .
i h a t e v e r y o u h a d t o d o y o u e t h e r w a l k e d o r y o u t o o k a t a x i
o r a s t r e e t c a r , b u t y o u were l i m i t e d o n a t a x i b e c a u s e y o u
h a d t o h a v e s o nany u n i t s o f b a g g a g e o t h e r w i s e L i n t o n
w o u l d n ' t a p p r o v e i t , h e w o u l d t a k e i t o f f o f y o u r e x p e n s e
a c c o u n t . I remember o n e t i m e he s e n t a n e x p e n s e a c c o u n t
b a c k , b e c a u s e I h a d m i s j u d g e d t h e g a s o l i n e t a x b y 1 c e n t .
I t w a s n ' t r i g h t , and b a c k i t came.
L o f s v o l d : Whaf i f y o u n e e d e d e q u i p m e n t , l i k e b u t t e r
t r i e r s a n d t h i n g s l i k e t h a t , y o u h a d t o c a r r y t h o s e t o o ? .
S c h o o n o v e r : A b s o l u t e l y , y o u c h e c k e d y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s .
made o u t a c a r d f o r e a c h t o w n a n d w h a t I h a d t o t h e r e . I f
y o u w e r e o n a t r i p a n d y o u g o t a t e l e g r a m , t h e r e w e r e a l o t
o f t e l e g r a m c o m m u n i c a t i o n s i n t h o s e d a y s , a r e q u e s t f r o m
a n o t h e r d i s t r i c t t o d o s o m e t h i n g a n d y o u l a c k e d e q u i p m e n t ,
y o u w o u l d go t o t h e l o c a l h e a l t h o f f i c e a n d s e e i f y o u
c o u l d b o r r o w s o m e t h i n g t h e r e .
I remember one t i m e in. . . I was w o r k i n g o u t o f
S y r a c u s e a n d I g o t a t e l e g r a m f r o m W e s t e r n D i s t r i c t t o
c h e c k l u g s o f g r a p e s f o r s h o r t w e i g h t . It seemed s o r t o f
f a r f e t c h e d t o me b e c a u s e t h o s e t h i n g s r a n a l l o v e r t h e
map. Anyway I k e p t a c h e c k o n t h e f r e i g h t c a r . I t was
I
r e c o r d e d a s c o m i n g i n t o S y r a c u s e . The f r e i g h t a g e n t was
s u p p o s e t o l e t me know b u t b e c o m i n g s u s p i c i o u s , I p h o n e d
ahead o f t i m e and f o u n d i t h a d b e e n d i v e r t e d t o O g d e n s b u r g .
: jumped i n my c a r t h a t n i g h t a n d g o t u p t o O g d e n s b u r g ,
b e f o r e t h e c a r a r r i v e d . I l a c k e d a s c a l e t o w e i g h w i t h
b u t . . . i t was l o a n e d t o me by t h e h e a l t h o f f i c e i n
O g d e n s b u r g .
Yes, y o u d i d a l o t o f f o o t work i n t h o s e d a y s . I
remember one t i m e I was w o r k i n g i n New Haven a n d t h e r e y o u
t r a v e l e d b y b u s , e t c . a n d I h a d a n a s s i g n m e n t t o s a m p l e
f i v e p o u n d s b l o c k s o f c h e e s e , f r o m S w i f t o r A r m o u r , o n e o f
them, a n d I h a d a w h o l e b i y l o a d a n d I h a d t o g e t o n t h e
bus w i t h a l l t h a t a n d my g r i p a n d t h e G u r l e y b a l a n c e . . . b u t
t h a t was t h e way y o u o p e r a t e d a n d y o u d i d n ' t t h i n k a n y t h i n g
a b o u t i t .
L o f s v o l d : P a r t o f t h e j o b .
S c h o o n o v e r : I t w a s n ' t t o bad a r o u n d New Y o r k , b e c a u s e t h e y
h a d i n a s e n s e a b e t t e r subway s y s t e m t h e n t h a n t h e y h a v e
now. F i v e c e n t s i s a l l i t c o s t on t h e subways i n t h o s e
d a y s . I t r a n a l l o v e r t h e p l a c e . I n f a c t c o m i n g a c r o s s
t h e B r o o k l y n B r i d g e , i n t h a t a r e a , t h e y h a d t h o s e o l d
t r o l l e y c a r s w i t h t h e s i d e b o a r d . The c o n d u c t o r t h e n
w a l k e d t h e s i d e t o c o l l e c t t h e f a r e s .
L o f s v o l d : When y o u w e r e away f r o m t h e o f f i c e and c o l l e c t e d
t h e s e s a m p l e s , y o u s h i p p e d t h e m i n e v e r y d a y by R a i l w a y
E x p r e s s , o r . . . ?
S c h o o n o v e r : REA.
L o f s v o l d : a u t i f y o u w e r e w o r k i n g i n t o w n , why y o u w e n t
i n t o t h e o f f i c e a t n i g h t and d e l i v e r e d them, o r b r o u g h t
t h e m i n t o t h e o f f i c e f o r t h e l a b o r a t o r y ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . A l i t t l e s t o r y on McKay M c K i n n o n w h i l e
h e was s t i l l wo :pk ing a s I n s p e c t o r i n New Y o r k . He was com-
i n g b a c k f r o m t h e C o n n e c t i c u t a r e a a n d h e h a d some s a m p l e s
i n h i s c a r a n d h e was b e a t i n g t h e t r a c k down, s o t h e p o l i c e
s t o p p e d h i m f o r s p e e d i n g and h e g a v e t h e m a s t o r y t h a t he
was r u s h i n g some s a m p l e s b a c k t o t h e o f f i c e a n d h e h a d t o
g e t t h e m a n a l y z e d . So t h e p o l i c e s a i d , " F o l l o w me, 1 ' 1 1
l e a d t h e way" . M c K i n n o n s a i d he was s h a k i n g i n h i s b o o t s
f o r f e a r h e w o u l d w a n t t o come up t o t h e o f f i c e and s e e i f
h e was t e l l i n g t h e t r u t h . B u t h e l e t h i m go.
A n o t h e r i n t e r e s t i n g s t o r y o n s a m p l i n g o u t o f A l b a n y .
I was w o r k i n g w i t h a S t a t e I n s p e c t o r t h e r e , o n s p r a y r e s i -
due. T h e r e was a f a r m e r p u t t i n g s t r a i g h t l e a d a r s e n a t e
i n t o a 5 p o u n d s u g a r s a c k a n d p u t t i n g a dab o n t h e c a u l i -
f l o w e r p l a n t s a s h e w e n t a l o n g . W e l l , s o m e t i m e s t h e i n n e r
l e a v e s a r e u s e d f o r m a k i n g soup. You know, t h e r e w e r e l i t -
t l e p i e c e s o f l e a d a r s e n a t e , t h e s i z e o f t h e e n d o f y o u r
f i n g e r , t h e r a i n h a d g o t t e n down t h e r e . Boy, t o me t h a t
was r e a l l y d a n g e r o u s . So, I w e n t b a c k t o t h e S t a t e House
w i t h t h e S t a t e I n s p e c t o r a n d h e p u t i t o n t h e r a d i o f o r t h e
S t a t e Po l i c e t o s t o p a n y t r u c k f r o m t h i s f e l l o w g o i n g o u t
o f s t a t e and t u r n i t a r o u n d u n t i l we c o u l d g e t a n a n a l y s i s
a n d c h e c k t h e l o a d . So, I g o t a t e l e p h o n e c a l l Y r o m t h e
New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , "Hey , w h a t ' s g o i n g on u p t h e r e . S t a t e
P o l i c e a r e s t o p p i n g t r u c k s . " So, when I e x p l a i n e d , w e l l i t
was a1 1 r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : T h e t a g r e e d .
S c h o o n o v e r : The s t a t e h a d t a k e n o v e r t h e d e a l a n d we w e r e
o u t o f i t .
I was a s s i g n e d o n c e on t h e s h i p m e n t s o f a p p l e s f r o m
t h e P a c i f i c N o r t h w e s t t o c h e c k t h e s p r a y r e s i d u e . T h e r e
w e r e a l a r g e number o f c a r s c o m i n g i n . You w o u l d go o v e r
i n t h e m i d d l e o f t h e n i g h t b e f o r e t h e c a r s w e r e p u t o n t o
f l o a t s t o t a k e t h e m o v e r t o N o r t h R i v e r p i e r s . McKay
M c K i n n o n h a d b e e n o u t t o a p a r t y a n d h e came i n t o h e l p me
i n t h e wee h o u r s o f t h e m o r n i n g w i t h a p l u s h c o a t a n d a
d e r b y h a t .
L o f s v o l d : A l l d r e s s e d u p ?
S c h o o n o v e r : He was c l i m b i n g i n t o c a r s , p u l l i n g o u t b o x e s ,
a n d s a m p l i n g a p p l e s . J u s t b e f o r e t h a t I h a d b e e n w a i t i n g
and t h e J e r s e y C i t y P o l i c e came a l o n g a n d w a n t e d t o know
w h a t I was d o i n g w a i t i n g t h e r e a t t h e c o r n e r i n t h e m i d d l e
o f t h e n i g h t . I e x p l a i n e d w h a t we w e r e a b o u t s o t h a t
w o r k e d o u t a l l r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : I f t h e y ' d s e e n M c K i n n o n i n h i s C h e s t e r f i e l d
c o a t , t h e y r e a l l y w o u l d h a v e wondered .
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , he was a b r i l l i a n t y o u n g man. When h e
p u t h i s t e e t h i n t o a n o p e r a t i o n h e c o u l d r e a l l y do i t . He
w o u l d t a k e s h o r t c u t s t o o . I remember o n e t i m e we w e n t o v e r
t o P a t t e r s o n t o c h e c k o n some, w h a t we c a l l e d a l c o h o l c a n -
d i e s , b e c a u s e i t was a g a i n s t t h e l a w t o p u t a l c o h o l i n t o
c h o c o l a t e c a n d i e s , a n d we w e n t t o t h i s o n e p l a n t a n d i t was
l o c k e d up, no e v i d e n c e o f i i f e a t a1 1. Somehow y o u h a d t h e
f e e l i n g t h a t t h e y m i g h t h a v e s e e n u s c o m i n g . So, t h e r e was
a s i d e s t a i r w a y t h a t w e n t up t o t h e r o o f , we g o t u p a n d
t h e r e was a b o x o n t o p o f an o p e n i n g a n d we l i f t e d i t o f f
a n d t h e r e was a s t a i r w a y t h e r e . Mac l o o k e d a t me. He
s a i d , " W e l l , t h e r e i s no t i m e l i k e t h e p r e s e n t " . We w e n t
down t o t h e f a c t o r y a n d i t was a c c o r d i n g t o t h e t e r m i n o l o g y
" h o t " , t h e y h a d j u s t l e f t , t h e y h a d s e e n u s c o m i n g a n d away
t h e y went . W e l l , we c o u l d h a v e gone t o j a i l , y o u know,
e s p e c i a l l y t o d a y f o r b r e a k i n g a n d e n t e r i n g .
L o f s v o l d : B r e a k i n g a n d e n t e r i n g .
S c h o o n o v e r : B u t , we f o u n d w h a t we w a n t e d t o f i n d a n d t h e y
w e r e m a k i n g s h i p m e n t s s o m e p l a c e a n d t h a t was i t . I f t h e
U.S. A t t o r n e y h a d e v e r . . . i f t h e r e h a d b e e n a t r i a l , a s t o
how we h a d g o t t h e e v i d e n c e t h e c a s e w o u l d h a v e b e e n t h r o w n
o u t . You know, i n t h o s e d a y s i t t o o k . . . L i k e t h e o l d
s t o r y a b o u t c h e c k i n g on a c e r t a i n f a c t o r y i n C o n n e c t i c u t ,
t h e y h a d r e n t e d a r o w b o a t a n d gone down t o t h e l a k e a l o n g
s i d e t h e factor,^, t r y i n g t o w a t c h o p e r a t i o n s , e t c . , a n d
some guy t ~ l d t h e m t h e r e i s no f i s h i n t h a t l a k e w h a t a r e
y o u d o i n g o u t t h e r e .
L o f s v o l d : T h e y u s e d t o do a l l k i n d s o f t h i n g s i n o r d e r t o
t r y a n d f i n d o u t w h a t was h a p p e n i n g .
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, s u r e . P a r t i c u l a r l y i n t h o s e d a y s , i f y o u
a c t e d as i f y o u h a d t h e a u t h o r i t y , i t w a s n ' t q u e s t i o n e d .
Once i n a g r e a t w h i l e , I ' m t r y i n g t o t h i n k o f t h e name o f
t h i s i n d i v i d u a l a g a i n a n d I c a n ' t . He made an i n s p e c t i o n
i n New Y o r k , h e came b a c k , h e h a d t a k e n p i c t u r e s a n d t h e
f i r m p h o n e d a n d demanded t h a t h e b r i n g t h e p i c t u r e s back .
So, W h a r t o n d i r e c t e d h i m t o t a k e h i s f i l m a n d e v e r y t h i n g
b a c k a n d g i v e i t t o t h e f i r m . O f c o u r s e , we h a d no d i r e c -
t i v e on t h i s . I n f a c t , e v e n t o d a y , I i m a g i n e t h a t t h e y
i n s i s t o n t h a t y o u c a n ' t t a k e p i c t u r e s , a n d t h e A c t d o e s n ' t
s p e l l i t o u t .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t i s r i g h t , I t h i n k t h e i n s t r u c t i o n s s t i l l
a r e t h a t i f t h e y f o r b i d y o u t o t a k e p i c t u r e s , y o u t r y t o
a r g u e t h e m i n t o d o i n g i t , b u t i f t h a t d o e s n ' t wo rk y o u p u t
t h e camera away.
S c h o o n o v e r : B u t t h e r e a r e t i m e s . .. Y e a r s ago, t o o , I
remember t h e r e was a f a c t o r y i n downtown New York t h a t made
v i n e j e l l i e s , a n d t h e y were s o l d t o a f a n c y f i r m a r o u n d t h e
m a i n s t a t i o n i n New Y o r k , t h e m i l l i o n a i r e s e c t i o n , t h e
f a n c y r e s t a u r a n t s , e t c . , a n d s o t h e m i n u t e y o u go i n t o some
o f t h e s e p l a c e s , t h i s i s a f t e r r e h a d a u t h o r i t y o n t h e ' 3 3
A c t , f i l t h p r o b l e m s . I t h a s a c h a r a c t e r i s t i c o d o r when
t h e r e a r e r a t s i n t h e p l a n t . I l o o k e d o v e r a n d u n d e r t h e
c o u n t e r s , and f o u n d h e a v y e v i d e n c e o f r a t s . I d e c i d e d t o
go b a c k t h e n e x t m o r n i n g a n d t h e y h a d a l l t h e s e w i n e s
c o o l i n g o v e r n i g h t , i n r o u n d p l a s t i c c u p s a n d t h e y w o u l d
d i p t h e m i n t o warm w a t e r and t h e n p u t t h e m i n t o a c e l l o -
p h a n e b a g w i t h s u g a r . W e l l , y ~ uc o u l d s e e t h e paw p r i n t s
w h e r e t h e r a t s h a d b e e n w a l k i n g t h r o u g h t h e s e c u p s .
S e v e r a l o f t h e m h a d r a t p e l l e t s l y i n g r i g h t o n t o p o f t hem.
The t r i c k i s t o go i n f i r s t b e f o r e t h e e v i d e n c e c a n b e
d i s t u r b e d . So I g o t t h a t e v i d e n c e , b u t a g a i n I h a d t a k e n
p i c t u r e s a n d I w a s n ' t c h a l l e n g e d on t h a t . So t h a t was a n
o p e n and s h u t c a s e .
A n o t h e r o p e n a n d s h u t c a s e , I h a d a l e t t e r o n t h a t
s o r t o f a c o m m e n d a t i o n o f some k i n d . I h a d a n a s s i g n m e n t
t o c h e c k o n a c o m p l a i n t o n t h e p i t s i n c h e r r i e s a t a w h o l e -
s a l e g r o c e r i n D a y t o n , Oh io . The c a n s w e r e l a b e l e d p i t t e d
c h e r r i e s a n d i n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , y o u c o u l d p u l l a1 1 s o r t o f
s h e n a n i g a n s . So, I w e n t a r o u n d t o t h e b a c k a n d wa l k e d i n
a s i f I was a s a l e s m a n a n d t a l k e d w i t h some o f t h e f l u n k y
e m p l o y e e s t h e r e a n d s t r u c k up a l i t t l e f r i e n d y c o n v e r s a -
t i o n a n d f o u n d o u t t h a t t h e y h a d b e e n i n t h a t weekend, t h e
b o s s h a d t a k e n a c o u p l e o f t h e m , a n d s t r i p p e d t h e s u b -
s t a n d a r d l a b e l s a n d p u t f a n c y l a b e l s b a c k aga n.
L o f s v o l d : They t o o k t h e s u b s t a n d a r d l e g e n d l a b e l s o f f .
S c h o o n o v e r : U h a t h a p p e n e d t h e c h e r r i e s h a d a l r e a d y b e e n
s e i z e d o n c e and s e n t b a c k t o t h e f a c t o r y i n a u f f a l o w h e r e
t h e y l a b e l e d t h e m w i t h t h e p r o p e r l a b e l s a n d t h e n g o t t h e m
r e l e a s e d a f t e r s e i z u r e a n d s e n t t h e m down t h e r e .
L o f s v o l d : T h e n t h e y p u t t h e o r i g i n a l l a b e l b a c k o n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : So, w i t h t h a t i n f o r m a t i o n I w e n t i n t o t h e
o f f i c e . I a p p r o a c h e d t h e m y o u d o n ' t ask t h e m , y o u t e l l
t hem, i f y o u w a n t t h e i n f o r m a t i o n . I s a i d , "You r e l a b e l l e d
t h e s e c a n s o v e r t h e weekend, a n d y o u h a v e y o u r i n v o i c e f o r
t h e s h i p m e n t , e t c . He o r d e r e d l a b e l s f r o m C h i c a g o . He
s i g n e d an a f f i d a v i t c o v e r i n g t h e f u l l t r a n s a c t i o n w i t h
f a c t u a l r e c o r d s .
L o f s v o l d : He c o n f e s s e d ?
S c h o o n o v e r : So, h e was p r o s e c u t e d . A n o t h e r t i m e , a t an
i n s e c t i c i d e f a c t o r y i n C o n n e c t i c u t , I h a d a v e r y n i c e c o n -
v e r s a t i o n w i t h t h e o w n e r o f t h e f a c t o r y i n t h e o f f i c e when
I w e n t i n . He s a i d t o me v e r y p l e a s a n t l y , "Now, I n s p e c t o r ,
y o u s e e t h a t d o o r " . " Y e s " . " W e l l , y o u a r e n o t g o i n g
t h r o u g h i t " a n d t h a t was t h a t . I d i d n ' t go t h r o u g h i t .
A n o t h e r p l a n t i n J e r s e y , n o t t o f a r f r o m P a t e r s o n , I
w e n t i n t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n and i t was a b r e a d p l a n t . I
was a s k e d t o w a i t and come b a c k a g a i n l a t e r i n t h e d a y a n d
I s a i d , " U e l l I h a v e a u t h o r i t y , I h a v e w r i t t e n y o u a n o t i c e
and I am h e r e t o make an i n s p e c t i o n . T h e r e i s n o t h i n g i n
t h e A c t t h a t s a y s I h a v e t o make a r r a n g e m e n t s w i t h y o u t o
i n s p e c t y o u r f a c t o r y a t a l a t e r t i m e . W e l l , h e k e p t me
w a i t i n g and h e s a i d s o m e t h i n g a b o u t h i s a t t o r n e y . I s a i d ,
" F i n e , c a l l y o u r a t t o r n e y , 1 ' 1 1 t a l k t o h i m " , a n d i t h a p -
p e n e d t o b e a n a t t o r n e y t h a t h a d f o r m e r l y b e e n i n t h e
G e n e r a l C o u n s e l ' s o f f i c e i n W a s h i n g t o n , a n d h e d i d p h o n e
h i m a n d I d i d t a l k t o h im. I s a i d , " W e l l , y o u t e l l me,
y o u ' r e r e f u s i n g t o p e r m i t me t o make a n i n s p e c t i o n now a n d
I'll l e a v e " . W e l l , h e s a i d " I d o n ' t w a n t t h a t o n t h e
r e c o r d , y o u know." I s a i d , " W e l l , i t i s e i t h e r g o i n g t o b e
one t h i n g o r t h e o t h e r , e i t h e r I am g o i n g t o make an
i n s p e c t i o n o r I d o n ' t . " O K . I t e n d e d u p t h e n d u r i n g t h e
t i m e I was d o i n g t h i s h e h a d somebody s q u i r t i n g a h o s e o n
t h e c e i l i n g , o n t h e f l o o r t h e y h a d e v e r y t h i n g d r o w n e d i n
t h a t b a k e r y , t h e y h a d c l e a n e d i t up. B u t i f t h e e v i d e n c e
i s t h e r e ... L o f s v o l d : Yes, i f i t i s b a d e n o u g h t o d o a n y t h i n g a b o u t ,
t h e y a r e n o t g o i n g t o b e a b l e t o c l e a n i t o u t i n 1 5 - 2 0
m i n u t e s , o r e v e n an h o u r .
S c h o o n o v e r : A n o t h e r t i m e , t h e r e was a c h e e s e c a k e p l a n t i n
t h e b a c k e n d o f Newark a n d t h e b r o w n c r u m b s t h a t t h e y p u t
o n t h e t o p o f c h e e s e c a k e s , a f t e r t h e y make i t , t h a t r o o m
was o v e r r u n ~itl.1m i c e . So, i t was l a t e i n t h e d a y when I
h i t t h e r e , I hacl b e e n t o o t h e r p l a c e s , s o I s a i d I w o u l d
come b a c k f i r s t t h i n g i n t h e m o r n i n g . I d i d go b a c k f i r s t
t h i n g i n t h e m o r n i n g a n d he h a d a c r e w h i r e d t o go i n a t
n i g h t t i m e , y o u n e v e r saw s u c h . . . i t l o o k e d l i k e h e a v e n
i t s e l f .
L o f s v o l d : C l e a n e d a l l n i g h t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Q u i c k d r y i n g p a i n t , t h e f l o o r s w e r e c l e a n , a l l
t h e q u e s t i o n a b l e c o n t a i n e r s w e r e t h r o w n o u t . I s a i d t o my-
s e l f , " T h e y d e s t r o y e d my e v i d e n c e " . I n one way i t i s g o o d
t o e f f e c t a c o r r e c t i o n l i k e t h a t .
L o f s v o l d : Yes, i t a c c o m p l i s h e d w h a t y o u s t a r t e d o u t t o do.
D i d y o u g e t i n v o l v e d i n t h e E l i x i r S u l f a n i l a m i d e
r e c a l l ?
S c h o o n o v e r :
was done, a
g o i n g on.
O n l y i n t h e s a m p l i n g e n d o f
nd I w a s n ' t d i r e c t l y i n v o l v e d .
i t .
i
A
knew w h a t
l o t o f t h a t
was
L o f s v o l d :
S c h o o n o v e r :
Where w e r e y o u a t
I n C l e v e l a n d .
t h a t t i m e ?
L o f s v o l d : Were t h e r e a n y s h i p m e n t s up t h i s way, o r was i t
m o s t l y down S o u t h ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h e r e w e r e some s h i p m e n t s a r o u n d h e r e , y e s .
B u t , c o l l e c t i o n o f s a m p l e s , e t c . , e s s e n t i a l l y .
A l i t t l e s t o r y , a n o t h e r t i m e , a b a k e r y i n Bayonne ,
i n s p e c t i n g t h a t . . . I w e n t t h e r e o n a c o m p l a i n t o f somebody
b e i n g made s i c k on t h e c a n n o l i s . So, I l o o k e d a r o u n d t h e
b a k e r y and saw s e v e r a l bags o f s u g a r u n d e r t h e c o u n t e r .
T h e y v o u l d t a k e some s u g a r a n d p u t i t i n t o a b i n and w o u l d
u s e t h a t t o m i x w i t h t h e c a n n o l i s . J e l l , t h e b a g s , c a t s
h a d b e e n s l e e p i n g on t h e t h i n g s a n d y o u c o u l d s e e o t h e r
i n s e c t a c t i v i t y , s o i c u t t h e b a g a n d l i f t e d i t u p a n d y o u
c o u l d s e e t h i s d i r t a l l t h r o u g h t h e b a g and i n t o t h e s u g a r .
He c l a i m e d t h a t i t was t h e c h e e s e h e g o t f r o m a n o t h e r p l a c e
i n B r o o k l y n t h a t h a d c a u s e d t h e d i f f i c u l t y , t h e s i c k n e s s
and s o f o r t h , a n d I s a i d , " S i r , h e r e i s y o u r e v i d e n c e r i g h t
h e r e , y o u j u s t g o t p l a i n d i r t i n t o y o u r m i x . " B o y , he w e n t
up i n t h e a i r a n d g r a b b e d a b i g b u t c h e r k n i f e a n d came
a f t e r me. H i s w i f e l e t o u t a s c r e a m a n d s o I d i d n ' t w a s t e
a n y t i m e I w a l k e d o u t t h e f r o n t d o o r . I w a s n ' t g o i n g t o
a r g u e w i t h a man i n a c a s e l i k e t h a t , b e c a u s e h e j u s t w e n t
n u t s . I g o t t h e l o c a l h e a l t h i n s p e c t o r a n d t h e p o l i c e a n d
w e n t b a c k t o f i n i s h t h e i n s p e c t i o n . No u s e b e i n g a d e a d
h e r o .
L o f s v o l d : No. H e a v e n s no.
S c h o o n o v e r : The f i e l d t r i p s w o u l d l a s t f r o m a week t o a
m o n t h o r more. A s s i g n m e n t s w e r e c o l l e c t e d , a s s e n t t o y o u
b y t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r and y o u h a d a b a s k e t o n y o u r d e s k
a n d y o u m a r k e d i t t r a v e l a s s i g n m e n t s . Day a f t e r d a y y o u ' d
t h r o w t h e a s s i g n m e n t s i n t h e r e u n t i l t h e y b u i l t u p s u f f i -
c i e n t l y t o make a t r i p w o r t h w h i l e , e n o u g h w o r k i n t h a t
a r e a . Then I w o u l d make o u t a c a r d w i t h t h e name o f t h e
t o w n , a n d w h a t I h a d t o do i n t h a t t o w n , a n d t h e n l e a v e a
l i s t o f t h a t w o r k w i t h t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r when I l e f t .
You w o u l d h a v e y o u r a s s i g n m e n t s b u n d l e d a n d y o u g o i n t h a t
t o w n and w o r k o n y o u r a s s i g n m e n t t h e r e . I n b e t w e e n ,
u s u a l l y by t e l e g r a m , g i v i n g y o u new a s s i g n m e n t s o r y o u
3,vould s t o p a t t h e p o s t o f f i c e i n t h a t t o w n a n d t h e r e w o u l d
b e m a i l t h e r e w i t h a d d i t i o n a l a s s i g n m e n t s .
I t was v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g t o w o r k d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n .
Remember we h a d t o t a k e a m o n t h o f f w i t h o u t p a y , r a t h e r
t h a n t a k e a l o w e r s a l a r y . W e l l , we w e r e a l l o w e d . . . w e g o t
down t o $4 .00 a day p e r d iem, i t was s o r t o f a j o b t o
o p e r a t e on 4 b u c k s a d a y , b u t w h a t I d i d was s t o p a t t h e
P o u g h k e e p s i e Y M C A a n d g e t a m e m b e r s h i p c a r d f o r $3.00.
T h a t c a r d e n t i t l e d y o u t o s t a y i n a n y YMCA f o r a $1 .00 a
n i g h t . So I s l e p t i n p l e n t y o f YMCA's f o r a $1.00, some-
t i m e s i t was an i r o n b e d i n t h e gymnas ium b u t I g o t b y .
D u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n t o o , a t t h e H o t e l M i z p a h i n ,
S y r a c u s e , y o u g o t a f u l l c o u r s e Sunday d i n n e r f o r 7 5 6 .
L o f s v o l d : You g o t t o know a l l o f t h e p l a c e s w h e r e y o u
c o u l d do t h a t .
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , y o u h a d t o .
L o f s v o l d : When y o u h a d t o t a k e t h a t m o n t h ' s f u r l o u g h was
i t a s t r a i g h t m o n t h o r was i t some d a y s f o r e a c h mon th .
S c h o o n o v e r : Some d a y s f o r e a c h mon th . U s u a l l y y o u c o u l d
t a c k i t o n t o y o u r v a c a t i o n , w h a t e v e r i t was, a n d t h e y k e p t
t r a c k o f i t .
L o f s v o l d : You w e r e t r a v e l i n g a s y o u s a i d e i t h e r b y c a r o r
b y common c a r r i e r o n t h e s e t r i p s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : i * l o s t l y . L a t e r t h o u g h a f t e r ' 3 3 a n d e t c . o f
c o u r s e , y o u h a d c a r s t o t r a v z l i n .
L o f s v o l d : Wherl t h e y s e n t y o u t h e s e a s s i g n m e n t s b y t e l e -
gram, t h e y came f r o m y o u r S t a t i o n h e a d q u a r t e r s a n d y o u h a d
t o k e e p t h e m i n f o r m e d a b o u t w h e r e y o u w e r e g o i n g t o b e s o
t h e y c o u l d k e e p s e n d i n g y o u t h i n g s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. You k e p t t h e m i n f o r m e d s o t h a t t h e y
c o u l d k e e p i n t o u c h w i t h y o u . Th i s one i n s p e c t o r , I c a n ' t
remember h i s name, h e i n v a r i a b l e i n c u r r e d t h e w a t h o f t h e
D i s t r i c t , h e s e n t a t e l e g r a p h s a y i n g , " l e a v i n g " , e t c . ,
l e a v i n g . . . L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t E d d i e P a l m e r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t , E d d i e P a l m e r .
L o f s v o l d : Yes, I h e a r d t h o s e s t o r i e s .
S c h o o n o v e r : A t e l e g r a m l i k e t h a t was w o r t h l e s s .
L o f s v o l d : Yes, h e d i d n ' t wan t t o b e f o u n d . You m e n t i o n e d
t h a t e a r l y , i n y o u r f i r s t y e a r o r s o t h a t y o u w e r e h e r e y o u
d i d some w o r k o n some i m p o r t s a l s o .
S c h o o o n o v e r : Yes.
L o f s v o l d : A n y t h i n g p a r t i c u l a r t h e r e , a s t o t h e p r o d u c t s
t h a t y o u w o r k e d o n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No t p a r t i c u l a r l y , as I r e c a l l . T h e r e was c o n -
s i d e r a b l e w o r k s o m e t i m e s on I t a l i a n t o m a t o p a s t e t h a t came
i n . Tomatoes a r e n o t o r i o u s l y i t e m s t h a t go b a d , h y d r o g e n
s w e l l s a n d s o f o r t h .
I remember one t i m e t h e y h a d a s h i p m e n t o f c a r l o a d s
a n d c a r l o a d s t h e Army p u r c h a s e d , f r o m I t a l y , t h a t w e n t down
t o B e l l e Meade, New J e r s e y , w h i c h , w a s t h e d e p o t down t h e r e ,
d i s t r i b u t i o n f o r t h e Army and we w e n t down a n d c h e c k e d a n d
s a m p l e d , c h e c k e d a n d s a m p l e d a n d t h e s t u f f k e p t g o i n g b a d
a l l t h e t i n e , t h e l o n g e r i t s t a y e d t h e r e t h e w o r s t i t w o u l d
g e t . F i n a l l y , I g u e s s t h e y h a d t o d e s t r o y t h e w h o l e
s h i p m e n t .
L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , as I remember t h e r e was a l o t o f w o r k
done o n e g g s a r o u n d New York , t o o , b e c a u s e t h i s was s u c h a
m a r k e t , s t u f f was s h i p p e d i n h e r e f r o m a l l o v e r . D i d y o u
g e t i n v o l v e d i n t h a t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. T h e r e w e r e q u i t e a f e w w a r e h o u s e s i n
J e r s e y C i t y , New Y o r k a n d I d r i l l e d a g r e a t many c a n s o f
f r o z e n e g g s t o c h e c k f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n , y o u r p i n e a p p l e
o d o r , e t c . I n t h o s e d a y s , t o o , t h e r e w a s n ' t t h e f o r m a l
t r a i n i n g o n t h a t k i n d o f w o r k t h a t e x i s t e d l a t e r . L a t e r
y o u h a d t o go t o E g g S c h o o l , e t c . Then y o u l e a r n e d b y
a c t u a l l y w o r k i n g i n t h e f i e l d , u s u a l l y y o u w e n t o u t w i t h
a n o t h e r i n s p e c t o r t h a t was t r a i n e d . However , t h e r e was a
c o i n f i r m a t i o n t e s t on t h e b a s i s o f t h e s a m p l e t h a t y o u t o o k
b a c k t o t h e l a b o r a t o r y , f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n , s o t h a t c o v e r e d
t h a t end o f i t . T h a t work was c o n s t a n t , i t j u s t w e n t on
and on.
On t h e s h e 1 1 e g g w o r k , I d o n ' t know t h a t t h e D i s t r i c t
d i d t o o much w i t h t h a t . T h e r e was a p e r i o d a f t e r t h e
s e c o n d W o r l d War when e g g s , s t o r e d , I u n d e r s t a n d s t o r e d i n
c a v e s i n M i s s o u r i . C a r l o a d s w e r e b r o u g h t i n t o New Y o r k t o
t h e e g g b r e a k e r s a n d t h e y w o u l d t r y t o g e t b y w i t h e g g s
t h a t were m a r g i n a 1. Ny j o b was t o go o u t a n d l e a r n how t o
c a n d l e e g g s . I h a d a l i t t l e b i t o f t h a t i n c o l l e g e i n t h e
c o u r s e s I t o o k i n p o u l t r y work , e t c . , b u t a. 0 . W r i g h t w e n t
o u t w i t h me a n d we o r d e r e d s o many c a s e s down i n t h e w a r e -
h o u s e a n d f l a s h c a n d l e d , b r o k e them, a n d n o t e d t h e c o n -
t e n t s . I n v a r i a b l y , w e l l y o u c a n t e l l f r o m f l a s h c a n d l i n g
w h a t t h e i n s i d e o f t h e e g g l o o k s l i k e . When t h e e g g g e t s
o l d i t j u s t s o r t o f f l o a t s a r o u n d , y o u g i v e i t a q u i c k
t w i s t a n d y o u a l w a y s g e t a m i x e d r o t o u t o f i t .
L o f s v o l d : The y o l k b r e a k s down a n d s p r e a d s o u t t h r o u g h t h e
w h i t e .
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. It i s s t r a n g e , d e p e n d i n g u p o n t h e t y p e
o f b a c t e r i a , some m i x e d r o t s d o n ' t s m e l l . You c a n c a l l
t h e m a r o t t e n egg, b u t y o u c o u l d a c t u a l l y u s e t h e m i f y o u
w a n t e d t o . We l e a r n e d how t o c a n d l e e g g s b y t h a t m e t h o d
and o n t h a t b a s l s we h a d q u i t e a f e w s e i z u r e s . When a c a r
l o a d o f e g g s was s e i z e d i t was t a k e n down u n d e r b o n d a n d
r e c a n d l e d . T h e y h a d p r o f e s s i o n a l c a n d l e r s . I ' d b e t h e r e
t o s u p e r v i s e t h e o p e r a t i o n , a n d I w a r n e d t h e p r o f e s s i o n a l
c a n d l e r s t o t a k e o u t t h o s e weak eggs b e c a u s e I am n o t g o i n g
t o p a s s them, I know w h a t t h e y a r e g o i n g t o l o o k l i k e a f t e r
y o u t w i s t them. T h e y w o u l d n ' t d o i t a n d I remember t h i s
one t i ~ n e t h e y h a d t o r e c a n d l e , a g a i n , t h e w h o l e c a r . T h a t
i s a j o b t o r e c a n d l e a w h o l e c a r l o a d o f e g g s , y o u know.
L o f s v o l d : I t c o s t t h e m a l o t o f [money t o h a v e p e o p l e s i t
t h e r e a n d c a n d l e a w h o l e c a r l o a d t w i c e .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : I know a t v a r i o u s t i m e s t h e r e w e r e p r o b l e m s w i t h
p e o p l e b u y i n g u p t h e i n c u b a t o r r e j e c t s , t h e eggs t h a t
d i d n ' t h a t c h .
S c h o o n o v e r : " I n k i e s " . Yes.
L o f s v o l d : And p u t t i n g t h e m i n t o e d i b l e e g g s .
S c h o o n o v e r : Were y o u h e r e t h a t one t i m e when t h e y t r a i l e d
" i n k i e s " f r o m M a i n e , down h e r e , t h e y u s e d a n t h r a c e n e c r a y o n
t o mark t h e l o t , w a s n ' t i t ? T h e y w r o t e on t h e c a s e s and on
some o f t h e eggs. The m a r k s were i n v i s i b l e b u t showed u p
i n u l t r a - v i o l e t l i g h t a n d on some o f t h e eggs. X i t h t h e
h e l p o f t h e s t a t e p o l i c e t h e y f o l l o w e d t h e t r u c k e r . They
h a d b e e n t a k i n g t h e m t o t h e dump, p r e v i o u s l y f r o m t h e h a t -
c h e r y , when t h e y w o u l d f i n d t h e m bad. One o p e r a t o r f r o m
Newark , h a d b e e n p r o s e c u t e d b e f o r e . l i e o p e r a t e d t r u c k s
r o u g h l y f r o m A t l a n t a , c l e a r n o r t h t o t h e S t a t e o f M a i n e .
He s a i d , "I'llg i v e y o u $2.00 p e r c a s e i f y o u p u t t h e m i n t o
c a s e s l i k e n o r m a l eggs . " " I n k i e " r e j e c t s , OK. So t h i s
l o a d was f o l l o w e d down a n d i t l a n d e d i n Newark a n d we w e r e
a l e r t e d a n d s a t u p a l l n i g h t k e e p i n g w a t c h o n t h i s t r u c k t o
s e e w h e r e i t was g o i n g , e t c . I t h i n k I w e n t , l i k e 2 d a y s ,
w i t h o u t s l e e p i n g , b e c a u s e y o u a l o n e knew w h a t t h e t r u c k
l o o k e d l i k e .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t ' s r i g h t .
S c h o o n o v e r : Tommy S c i a c c a wa s i n o n t h a t o n e d e a l . We
f o l l o w e d i t t o . .. . w h a t was t h e name o f t h a t t o w n ? T h e C h i e f
o f P o l i c e m u s t h a v e b e e n i n wi t h t h i s d e a l , somehow o r
a n o t h e r , b e c a u s e I h a d p h o n e d t h e s t a t e a n d t h e y g o t a n
I n s p e c t o r u p r i g h t away t o embargo t h e t r u c k l o a d . The
p o l i c e c h i e f came t h e r e i n a b i g i m p o r t a n t way, h a d a b i g
C a d i l l a c , b u t when h e l e f t h e s p u n t h e w h e e l s a n d t h r e w
d i r t a n d e v e r y t h i n g a l l o v e r e v e r y o n e who was s t a n d i n g
t h e r e o n p u r p o s e y o u know. Anyway, t h e e g g d e a l e r ' s name
was Cohen, I t h i n k . We g o t h i m t o t r i a l i n Newark . T h a t
was o n e t h i n g t h a t s u r p r i s e d me i n t h e d e v e l o p m e n t o f t h a t
case . I h a d g o n e o u t t o R u t g e r s a n d w a n t e d t o g e t someone
f r o m t h e r e t o t e s t i f y a b o u t t h e u n d e s i r a b l e q u a l i t y o f
" i n k i e " r e j e c t s . The h e a d o f t h e d e p a r t m e n t t h e r e w o u l d n ' t
a g r e e t h a t " i n k i e " r e j e c t s w e r e n o t e d i b l e . He s a i d , "Some
o f t h e m d o n ' t s m e l l , d o n ' t h a v e a n o d o r a n d t h e y c a n b e
u s e d . " W e l l , o u r s t a n d a r d was t h a t i f t h e y o l k , t h e y e l l o w
a n d w h i t e m i x e d t o g e t h e r i t i s a m i x e d r o t , i f i t d e t e r i o r -
a t e s t h a t f a r . H i s r i g h t h a n d man i n t h e d e p a r t m e n t d i s -
a g r e e d w i t h h i m a n d he s p o k e t o me a s i d e . F o r t u n a t e l y , h e
i s t h e o n e t h a t we g o t t o t e s t i f y i n t h e c a s e .
L o f s v o l d : H a r r y Cohen, w a s n ' t i t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Y o u ' r e r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : Wasn ' t t h a t t r u c k o v e r a t C a r l s t a d t , New J e r s e y
a t t h e g a r a g e t h e r e . I remember t h a t happened w h i l e I was
h e r e i n New York. I t h i n k Sammy Columar ia f rom Bos ton
f o l l o w e d t h e t r u c k a l l t h e way down h e r e .
Schoonove r : We a l m o s t l o s t i t i n t h e back a l l e y s of
Newark. S i t t i n g t h e r e t h e p o l i c e came a l o n g and found o u t
who we were and went and g o t a p i z z a and b r o u g h t i t back t o
t h e c a r i n t h e midd le of t h e n i g h t .
T h e r e was a n o t h e r b i t i n Greenwich V i l l a g e where we
s e t u p a c o u p l e of n i g h t s l o o k i n g . Remember t h a t f e l l a
f rom New Hampshire came down. Remember t h a t box w i t h t h e
c o l o r e d l i g h t s i n i t .
L o f s v o l d : O h , t h e Dinshah G h a d i a l i c a s e .
Schoonove r : The f e l l a f rom New York who was a d o c t o r s h o t
and k i l l e d h i m s e l f a f t e r w a r d s , do you remember t h a t ?
L o f s v o l d : O h , y e s .
Schoonover : T h i s i s no t d i r e c t l y r e l a t e d t o t h a t , b u t s i t -
t i n g t h e r e a t n i g h t t i m e e v e r y t h i n g would be q u i e t , s o -
c a l l e d p e a c e f u l , b u t t h e bums would be s l e e p i n g i n t h e
doorways u p and d o w n and t h e n i t would get; c o o l and you
would s e e t h e t h i n g s come a l i v e . They would b u i l d a l i t t l e
b o n f i r e i n t h e g u t t e r , t o warm t h e m s e l v e s and t h e n go back
t o t h e doorways a g a i n .
While i n P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d , i n c a n v a s s i n g f o r
p r o d u c t s t h a t were mi sb randed , I found a b i g s t a c k of c a s e s
o f b o t t l e s o f i l u n y o n ' s Remedy, w h i c h came f r o m t h e Munyon
Remedy Co. i n S c r a n t o n , P e n n s y l v a n i a . They w e r e 1 a b e l l e d
w i t h e v e r y w i l d c l a i m y o u c o u l d t h i n k o f , t u b e r c u l o s i s a n d
e v e r y t h i n g e l s e . T h e y w e r e f i n a l l y s e i z e d , n o c o n t e s t , a n d
d e s t r o y e d . T h a t t y p e o f i t e m w o u l d h a v e made a wonde f u l
e x h i b i t a t t h e p r e s e n t t i m e .
A n o t h e r t h i n g t h a t I o n e t i m e w o r k e d o n i n . . . o u t 0 f
Newark , a n d t h e r e was a t r i a l on i t . D r . C a r p e n t i e r n t h e
P a s s a i c a r e a , a s t h e s t o r y goes, he h a d some k i n d o f
f a t t y p r e p a r a t i o n t h a t was g o o d f o r t u b e r c u l o s i s a n d t h e y
s a i d t h a t d o g s w e r e d i s a p p e a r i n g f r o n c e r t a i n a r e a s , whe-
t h e r h e was m a k i n g i t f r o m d o g f a t o r w h a t I d o n ' t know, I
h a d t o make an i n v e s t i g a t i o n . One o f t h e l e a d s y o u c o u l d
g e t was w h e r e h e h a d g o t t e n p e o p l e t o t a k e t h e i r f a m i l y
members t h a t w e r e u n d e r t u b e r c u l a r t r e a t m e n t o u t o f B e r g e n
P i n e s , a n d t h e n G l e n j a r d n e r was t h e name o f a n o t h e r
t u b e r c u l a r h o s p i t a l o u t i n w e s t e r n J e r s e y and we w e n t t h e r e
a n d D r . Dobbs w e n t w i t h u s o n e t i m e t o make a c h e c k , b u t t o
me t h a t was a h o r r i b l e m i s c a r r i a g e o f w h a t e v e r . . . h e s o l d i t
f o r $7.00 a j a r . You w o u l d r u b i t o n y o u a n d i t was s u p -
p o s e t o h e l p y o u w i t h y o u r t u b e r c u l a r c o n d i t i o n . He was
t r i e d i n Newark , I d o n ' t know w h a t t h e r e s u l t s o f t h e c a s e
were .
C o f s v o l d : A b o u t w h a t y e a r w o u l d t h a t h a v e b e e n ?
S c h o o n o v e r : The t u b e r c u l o s i s c u r e t h a t I r e f e r r e d t o
b e f o r e , when I w o r k e d i n p a r t w i t h D r . Dobbs , a l s o c h e c k i n g
o n a f e l l o w named C a r p e n t i e r who p r e s u m a b l y made a f a t t y
compound o u t o f d o g s o r some s u c h t h i n g . I n v e s t i g a t i o n
was a b o u t 1 9 4 3 - 4 4 a n d e n d e d u p i n a p r o s e c u t i o n i n Newark ,
New J e r s e y c o u r t .
I n l a t e r y e a r s , p r o b a b l y i n t h e l a t e 4 0 ' s on, t h e r e
was c o n t i n u i n g o v e r - t h e - c o u n t e r d r u g work . T h e r e were t w o
p h a s e s , one o f c o u r s e , d r u g w o r k t h a t was done t h r o u g h t h e
s a l e o f p i l l s . Q u a n t i t i e s w e r e p u r c h a s e d by I n s p e c t o r s
w o r k i n g o u t o f New Y o r k . As r e s i d e n t i n New J e r s e y o u t o f
Newark , I h a d t o c h e c k numbers o f c o m p l a i n t s , d r u g s t o r e s ,
e t c . , i l l e g a l s a l e s w h i c h r e s u l t e d i n q u i t e a f e w p r o s e c u -
t i o n c a s e s . The t h i n g t h a t a l w a y s i r k e d me was t h a t i f y o u
go i n l i k e a l o c a l y o k e l y o u c a n make a b u y , b u t K i l l i n g s -
w o r t h i n s i s t e d , and i t may h a v e b e e n a d m i n i s t r a t i v e p o l i c y ,
t h a t y o u h a d t o h a v e t w o i n s p e c t o r s t o make a b u y o r y o u
c o u l d n ' t s u b s t a n t i a t e a c a s e i n c o u r t . W e l l , I c o u l d make
b u y s i n p r a c t i c a l l y a n y d r u g s t o r e t h a t I w a n t e d t o . I f
y o u wen t i n a t o d d h o u r s and d r e s s e d a c e r t a i n way, y o u
s o r t o f h a d an a p p e a l t h a t t h e y c o u l d n ' t t u r n down. T h e r e
w e r e a b o u t a h a l f d o z e n c a s e s w h e r e I knew t h a t t h e y w e r e
s e l l i n g d r u g s i l l e g a l l y , b u t no one e l s e c o u l d seem t o make
a buy . F o r i n s t a n c e , one o f the...men t h a t b r o a d c a s t o n
t h e r a d i o f r o m New Y o r k h i s w i f e became a d d i c t e d t o S e c o n a l
t h a t s h e g o t i n a d r u g s t o r e i n P l a i n f i e l d , New J e r s e y .
w e n t i n t h e r e l i k e l a t e i n t h e day , w i t h my o l d p a i n t e r ' s
I
g i v s a p h o n e y a d d r e s s , l i k e an a p a r t m e n t n e a r t h e r e , e t c . ,
and h e t o l d me...he w e n t o u t . . . " I c h e c k e d o n i t a n d I
d i d n ' t s e e y o u r name o n t h e m a i l b o x i n t h a t a p a r t m e n t . "
W e l l , y o u w o u l d g i v e some e x c u s e and he w c ~ u l d f o l l o w me o u t
and y o u w o u l d see h i m l o o k i n t h e f r o n t o f t h e s t o r e a n d I
w o u l d go i n t o some f a c t o r y n e a r t h e r e , i n t h e d o o r as i f I
w e r e a n o o n t i m e w o r k e r . I n o r d e r t o make b u y s , y o u h a d t o
do t h o s e t h i n g s . So, we f i n a l l y b u i l t a c a s e a g a i n s t h im .
The i n t e r e s t i n g p a r t o f i t was t h a t one o f t h e New
J e r s e y S t a t e Pharmacy B o a r d members, h i s name was V i t a l e
w i t h whom I w o r k e d . W e l l , t h e v i o l a t o r was a n o l d g e n t l e -
man, l o s t h i s d r u g s t o r e , b u t V i t a l e g a v e h i m a j o b a t h i s
d r u g s t o r e i n R u t h e r f o r d . What h a p p e n e d t h e S t a t e I n s p e c -
t o r was s h o p p i n g a r o u n d and w e n t i n a n d he s o l d h i m p i l l s .
So a s a member o f t h e Pharmacy B o a r d h e h a d t o f i n e
h i m s e l f .
L o f s v o l d : H i s own s t o r e .
S c h o o n o v e r : A n o t h e r v e r y i n t e r e s t i n g one was a c o m p l a i n t
f r o m K e y p o r t , New J e r s e y . The d r u g s t o r e o p e r a t e r t h e r e
was s e l l i n g p i l l s t o k i d s . An i n v e s t i g a t i o n d e v e l o p e d a n d
he was p r e t t y s o o n f i l l i n g f o r v a r i o u s k i n d s o f d r u g s
f rom.. . One o f t h e women f r o m t h e New York o f f i c e l i v e d
t h e r e and so I h a d h e r a r r a n g e t h a t i f t h e d r u g g i s t c a l l e d
t o c h e c k u p o n t h e a d d r e s s t h a t I g a v e , w h i c h was h e r
home, t h a t e v e r y t h i n g w o u l d b e k o s h e r , I was a l o c a l
f e l l o w . So i t w o r k e d a n d he was p r o s e c u t e d . I t t u r n e d o u t
t h a t h e was t h e l o c a l P o s t M a s t e r t h e r e . He r a n t h e d r u g
s t o r e o n t h e s i d e . B u t t h e r e a r e many i n t e r e s t i n g c a s e s i n
c l o s i n g o u t d r u g s t o r e s .
L o f s v o l d : T h e n a f t e r t h a t we g o t m o r e i n t o t h e d e a l i n g
w i t h p r o f e s s i o n a l p e d d l e r s t h a t d i d n ' t e v e n h a v e t h e f r o n t
o f a d r u g s t o r e .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , r i g h t .
T h e n o s t e n s i b l y t h e s t a t e t o o k o v e r some o f t h e w o r k .
I a l w a y s h a d a u n e a s y f e e l i n g a b o u t t h e s t a t e , a s n i c e a s
some o f t h e o f f i c i a l s were. Some o f t h e men e m p l o y e d b y
t h e m w e r e j u s t n o t t o b e t r u s t e d .
On t h i s " i n k i e " e g g w o r k , we f o u n d t h e p l a c e b a c k i n
Newark t h a t h a d a l l t h e b r e a k i n g e q u i p m e n t , e t c . i n t h e r e
a n d t h e y w e r e a c t u a l l y u s i n g i n c u b a t o r r e j e c t s a n d s e l l i n g
them. So, I c h e c k e d w i t h t h e s t a t e a n d t h e s t a t e e m b a r g o e d
i t a n d p l a c e d a n I n s p e c t o r , t o g u a r d t h e p r e m i s e s s u p p o s -
e d l y a l l n i g h t , u n t i l t h e e q u i p m e n t c o u l d b e t a k e n o u t t h e
n e x t d a y on a s e i z u r e b a s i s . What h a p p e n e d , h e c l a i m e d h e
was g e t t i n g a c u p o f c o f f e e , i n a n e a r b y d i n e r , a n d when h e
w e n t b a c k e v e r y t h i n g was gone.
L o f s v o l d : N o t v e r y l i k e l y w i t h t h e amoun t o f e q u i p m e n t
t h a t t h e y had.
I n r e c e n t , y e a r s we h a v e s p e n t a l o t o f t i m e i n s p e c t i n g
t h e m a n u f a c t u r e r s o f p h a r m a c e u t i c a l s . When y o u f i r s t w e r e
a r o u n d New Y o r k , d i d we d o much o f t h a t , i n s p e c t i n g p e o p l e
l i k e S q u i b b , a n d s u c h f i r m s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, i n s p e c t i o n s w e r e made, b u t t h e y w e r e made
on a l i t t l e d i f f e r e n t b a s i s , a c t u a l l y a l o t d i f f e r e n t t h a n
t h e y a r e made t o d a y . I n s p e c t i o n s t o o k much, much l e s s
t i m e . Today s o m e t i m e s t h e I n s p e c t o r s a r e i n t h e p l a n t f o r
a week o r t w o . T h e n i n s p e c t i o n s c o n s i s t e d e s s e n t i a l l y , o f
c h e c k i n g t h e i r r a w m a t e r i a l s e c t i o n t o make s u r e t h a t
e v e r y t h i n g was p r o p e r l y l a b e l l e d a n d s t o r e d , t h a t w e i g h i n g s
w e r e d o u b l e c h e c k e d , t h a t t h e l a b e l s w e r e c o u n t e d o u t f o r a
m a c h i n e a n d p r o p e r l y p l a c e d , t h a t t h e l a b e l 1 in g m a c h i n e
i t s e l f , t h a t p r i o r l a b e l s h a d b e e n c l e a r e d o u t s o t h a t
t h e r e was no c h a n c e o f a m i x u p t h e r e , b u t t h a t was e s s e n -
t i a l l y i t . I t w a s n ' t u n t i l l a t e r y e a r s t h a t f u l l f l e d g e d
c h e c k i n g o f f o r m u l a t i o n s , e t c . came i n t o b e i n g .
L o f s v o l d : A t t h a t t i m e d i d n ' t we d e p e n d a g r e a t d e a l o n
t h e a n a l y s i s o f t h e f i n a l p r o d u c t , ~ h e t h e ri t m e t t h e
s p e c i f i c a t i o n s , e i t h e r t h e i r s o r t h e U.S.P. o r s o m e t h i n g ?
S c h o o n o v e r : D e f i n i t e l y . H u n d r e d s a n d h u n d r e d s o f s a m p l e s
w e r e s o c o l l e c t e d . The d r u g work t h a t I d i d i n C h i c a g o ,
t h a t was e s s e n t i a l l y t h a t t y p e o f work . Once i n a w h i l e
y o u w o u l d h a v e c o m p l a i n t s , p h y s i c i a n s a n d o t h e r s . We d i d a
l o t o f w o r k c h e c k i n g on e t h e r . We c o l l e c t e d q u a r t e r p o u n d s
a n d h a l f p o u n d s , a t h o s p i t a l s a n d b r o u g h t t h e m i n f o r
a n a l y s i s .
L o f s v o l d : Was t h a t l o o k i n g f o r d e c o m p o s i t i o n i n s t o r a g e ?
A l d e h y d e s ? I remember t h a t we s t i l l h a d q u o t a s a m p l e s o f
e t h e r when I s t a r t e d . I t s t o p p e d a f e w y e a r s a f t e r t h a t .
I g u e s s we w e r e n ' t f i n d i n g enough w r o n g t h a t j u s t i f i e d t h e
e x p e n s e .
S c h o o n o v e r : What was i t we c h e c k e d o n t h e n t o o . . . We h a d
t o p u t i n s o many h o u r s i n o n p r o j e c t w o r k , o n w h a t d i d
t h e y c a l l i t now, o l e o , o l e o p r o j e c t , r e m e m b e r ?
L o f s v o l d : Yes.
S c h o o n o v e r : So.. .. L o f s v o l d : T h a t was a f t e r t h e t a x l a w was c h a n g e d , s o t h a t
y e l l o w o l e o became l e g a l .
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s i t . Ify o u a p p r o a c h e d t h e e n d o f m o n t h
and y o u d i d n ' t h a v e t h e number o f i n s p e c t i o n h o u r s t h a t
w e r e r e q u i r e d , t h e C h i e f I n s p e c t o r w o u l d s a y y o u p u t down
f o u r h o u r s , y o u p u t down s i x h o u r s , e t c .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was i n o r d e r t o m e e t t h e r e q u i r e m e n t s .
Who w e r e some o f t h e e a r l y D r u g I n s p e c t o r s t h a t y o u
l e a r n e d d r u g i n s p e c t i o n f r o m ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , o f c o u r s e , t h e m a i n one was C h a r l i e
Hyak. He was known as M r . D r u g , b u t he was p r e t t y c l o s e d -
mou thed , h e k e p t e v e r y t h i n g t o h i m s e l f a n d e v e r y b i t h e
w a n t e d t o d o b y h i m s e l f . You g o t l i t t l e t r a i n i n g f r o m
C h a r 1 i e . C h a r 1 ie G r e e n l e e d i d c o n s i d e r a b l e d r u g work . O f
c o u r s e , h e was a p h a r m a c i s t . S O I w o u l d c h e c k w i t h h i m on
many o c c a s i o n s .
L o f s v o l d : Uas J o h n y C a i n i n v o l v e d t o o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : N o t t o a n y g r e a t e x t e n t . He ,was.. . S t u Z e c k e n d o r f d i d q u i t e a b i t o f d r u g i n s p e c t i o n , b u t
h e was a f a s t o p e r a t o r . He d i d n ' t seem t o s p e n d much t i m e .
T h e n l a t e r he s p e c i a l i z e d on a n t i b i o t i c s and t h e n l a t e r he
q u i t and w e n t i n t o t h e n u r s i n g home b u s i n e s s .
L o f s v o l d : A b o u t t h a t t i m e C h a r l i e Wayne was c o m i n g t o b e
t h e p r i n c i p a l D r u g I n s p e c t o r , o f t h e w h o l e c o u n t r y .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : S t u , I w o u l d l i k e t o t a l k w i t h y o u now a l i t t l e
b i t a b o u t t h e p e r s o n a l i t i e s o f C o m m i s s i o n e r s a n d o t h e r t o p
o f f i c i a l s t h a t y o u m i g h t h a v e known, a s t o w h a t k i n d o f
p e o p l e t h e y w e r e and how t h e y managed, e t c . You w e r e
a p p o i n t e d , I guess , when W a l t e r G. C a m p b e l l was Commis-
s i o n e r ? D i d y o u e v e r mee t h i m ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . We h a d c o n f e r e n c e s f o r t h e E a s t e r n
D i s t r i c t , a t t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , e a c h y e a r . R e p r e s e n t a -
t i v e s f r o m t h e e a s t c o a s t w o u l d b e t h e r e a n d W a l t e r
C a m p b e l l w o u l d b e t h e r e and t a l k t o t h e g r o u p a n d I m e t h i m
a number o f t i m e s . I n l a t e r y e a r s , I m e t h i m a t a D i s t r i c t
m e e t i n g i n C i n c i n n a t i , I was c a l l e d down ,when I was R e s i -
d e n t I n s p e c t o r i n C l e v e l a n d , f o r c o n f e r e n c e s a c o u p l e o f
t i m e s a y e a r . One l i t t l e t h i n g s t a n d s o u t , he was i n q u i r -
i n g i n t o t h e work i t s e l f and h e w a n t e d t h i n g s d o n e
p r o p e r l y . I remember one t i m e , B i l l y F o r d , o n e o f h i s
C h i e f I n s p e c t o r s i n C i n c i n n a t i when we w e r e t h e r e , d e s -
c r i b e d , I t h i n k , i t was E l i L i l l y i n I n d i a n a p o l i s , h e h a d
made a n i n s p e c t i o n o f t h e i r d r u g p l a n t . He h a d a f i l e t h a t
was a b o u t a h a l f a f o o t t h i c k w i t h a z i l l i o n l a b e l s , e v e r y -
t h i n g b e a u i f u l l y s e t up, a n d B i l l y t o l d a l l a b o u t t h e
i n s p e c t i o n g o i n g f r o m d e p a r t m e n t t o d e p a r t m e n t . F i n a l l y ,
C a m p b e l l 1 s t e n e d q u i e t l y , t h e n h e s a i d , " B i l l y , d i d y o u
f i n d a n y t h n g w r o n g ? " B i l l y s a i d , "No, i t was a b e a u t i f u l
p l a n t . " He made some comments. He t h o u g h t , t h a t u s u a l l y ,
t h e r e i s s o m e t h i n g w r o n g t o b e f o u n d i n e v e r y p l a n t i f y o u
work h a r d enough .
To g e t b a c k t o i4r. W h a r t o n , i n t h e New Y o r k D i s t r i c t ,
h e was q u i t e a l e a d e r . He o p e r a t e d b y a s s i g n i n g w o r k p r o -
j e c t s t o t h o s e t h a t h e l p e d h i m i n h i s o f f i c i a l d i s t r i c t
wo rk . One o f h i s t r i c k s was t o g e t t hem. . .he re is t h i s
p r o b l e m , h e r e i s t h i s l e t t e r , now y o u w r i t e a l e t t e r f o r me
i n r e p l y . By s o d o i n g h e c o u l d p u t h i s f i n g e r s o n i n d i v i -
d u a l s who w e r e c:oming u p t h r o u g h t h e l i n e , i f t h e y h a d a n y
r e a l a b i l i t y t o make s e n s e o u t o f i t .
He w o u l d cclme down f r o m h i s h i g h p o s i t i o n a n d go
a r o u n d w i t h I n s p e c t o r s , now a n d t h e n . I n f a c t , h e came u p
t o B o s t o n a n d w e n t a r o u n d w i t h me o n some i n s p e c t i o n s .
L o f s v o l d : He was r a t h e r a u t o c r a t i c , w a s n ' t h e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , t h a t i s wha t I was g e t t i n g t o , y e s . He,
when t h e w o r k l o a d g o t p r e t t y h e a v y a n d I t h i n k h e had...
Lowe was t h e name o f one o f t h e i n d i v i d u a l s t h e r e .
L o f s v o l d : Yes. A u s t i n Lowe.
S c h o o n o v e r : A u s t i n Lowe. S t u a r t P o s t l e , when I came
t h e r e , was one o f h i s r i g h t h a n d men. Then l a t e r , t h e y
e a c h became S t a t i o n C h i e f s , b u t l a t e r when t h e l o a d g o t
h e a v y h e w o u l d j u s t s a y t o t h o s e i n t h e o f f i c e , " Y o u ' r e
s t a y i n g t o n i g h t , a n d y o u ' r e s t a y i n g u n t i l we g e t t h i s w o r k
d o n e a n d t h a t i s i t . " So, t h e y w o u l d h a v e t o c l e a r t h e i r
d e s k f o r t h e n e x t day . Oh , t h e y h a t e d t h a t . T h e y w o u l d be
t h e r e u n t i l 9 o ' c l o c k a t i g h t ,n w i t h t h e i r f a m i l i e s w a i t -
i n g , t h e y h a d c o m m i t m e n t s , e t c . I t d i d n ' t make a n y d i f -
f e r e n c e , y o u w e r e s t a y i n g .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was h a r d l y t h e way t o makc! f r i e n d s o f y o u r
e m p l o y e e s .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . B u t somehow, h e h a d a h o l d o n i n d u s -
t r y , when he c o u l d c a l l i n d u s t r y o n some s p e c i a l i z e d p r o b -
l e m s a n d t h e y w o u l d b r i n g t h e i n f o r m a t i o n r i g h t o v e r . T h e y
r e s p e c t e d t h e man, t h e way h e c o n d u c t e d t h e D i s t r i c t w o r k ,
t h e S t a t i o n work .
J. 0. C l a r k e , w e l l I ' v e t a l k e d a b o u t h i m b e f o r e . He
was q u i t e a D i r e c t o r .
L o f s v o l d : He was h e r e i n New Y o r k when y o u s t a r t e d a n d
t h e n w e n t t o t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s r i g h t . He was t h e C h i e f o f t h e New
Y o r k S t a t i o n .
L o f s v o l d : Then w e n t o u t t h e r e as C h i e f o f t h e C e n t r a l
D i s t r i c t .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . C h i e f o f t h e C e n t r a l D i s t r i c t .
L o f s v o l d : B e f o r e y o u w e n t t o C h i c a g o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : He was k i n d o f a d i f f e r e n t i n d i v i d u a l t h a n M r .
W h a r t o n , w a s n ' t h e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, a s much d i f f e r e n c e a s n i g h t a n d d a y .
W h a r t o n was, w e ' l l h e was a s t u d i o u s t y p e b u t i t i s h a r d t o
d e s c r i b e . J. 0.. C l a r k e was a c h e m i s t , t o b e g i n w i t h , a n d
a l l b u s i n e s s . W h a r t o n l i k e d h i s good t i m e s a n d h e c o u l d
r e l e n t a n d we h a d a number o f d i s t r i c t g e t t o g e t h e r s a n d h e
was a l w a y s i n t e r e s t e d i n a p a r t y . O f c o u r s e , a s I i n d i -
c a t e d b e f o r e , o n S a t u r d a y a f t e r n o o n s when t h e y g o t i n t h e
b a c k l a b o r a t o r y w e l l h e e n j o y e d t h a t a g r e a t d e a l .
L o f s v o l d : He j o i n e d t h e p o k e r game t o o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : He and, w h a t was h i s name, t h e I m p o r t
D i v i s i o n . . . I cart s t i l l s e e h im.
I t was a b o u t t h a t t i m e t o o , remember t h e i m p o r t w i n e
f r o m P o r t u g a l , p a r t i c u l a r l y , t h a t h a d g l a s s i n t h e w i n e .
L o f s v o l d : Oh, y e s . The g l a s s s p l i n t e r s .
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes. A f t e r i t was t e s t e d t h a t was a v a i l a b l e
a n d some o f i t seemed t o d i s a p p e a r , s o m e t i m e s .
L o f s v o l d : Was J . 0 . a c a r d p l a y e r wh i l e h e was h e r e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I n e v e r was t o o c l o s e t o t h a t e n d o f t h i n g s .
ye a l w a y s seemed t o be j u s t b u s i n e s s 1 i k e and t h a t was i t .
L o f s v o l d : D i d y o u h a v e much c o n t a c t w i t h h i m when y o u w e r e
i n C h i c a g o ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, I w o u l d go i n t o t h e o f f i c e t o t a l k w i t h
h i m on d i f f e r e n t p r o b l e m s . He w o u l d c a l l ,you i n a n d i f y o u
w e n t o f f on a t r i p o r j u s t a n a s s i g n m e n t , s o m e t i m e s he...
y o u w o u l d g e t a c a l l t o go i n and h e w o u l d t a l k o v e r t h e
a r e a o f w h a t y o u w e r e g o i n g t o do , e t c . Showed t h a t h e h a d
an i n t e r e s t and h i s f i n g e r on e v e r y t h i n g t h a t was g o i n g on.
He c a l l e d me i n , he g o t a l e t t e r i n F r e n c h a n d a s k e d me...
I h a d F r e n c h i n h i g h s c h o o l and I c o u I d make s e n s e o u t o f
i t . Then o n c e i n a w h i l e he w o u l d t a l k a b o u t t h i n g s t h a t
h a p p e n e d i n New Y o r k .
L o f s v o l d : D i d y o u s e e much o f N c K i n n o n , when h e was h e r e
i n t h e E a s t e r n D i s t r i c t , w o r k i n g a s C h i e f o f New Y o r k ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Oh, y e s . Mac h a n d e d me a numiber o f a s s i g n -
m e n t s t o r e p o r t t o h im . L i k e t h e p r o j e c t on t h e s o l d i e r
g i f t p a c k a g e s we w e r e t a l k i n g a b o u t .
W o r k i n g u p one case , h e w a n t e d a p r i c : e c o m p a r i s i o n ,
t o o . So I g o t a l l t h e f i g u r e s o n t h e c o s t , o f t h e i n g r e -
d i e n t s i n t h e p a c k a g e t o show t h a t t h e p r i c e t h a t t h e y
a s k e d f o r t h e m was o u t r a g e o u s , c o m p a r e d w i t h w h a t w e n t i n .
Soda c r a c k e r s , p r u n e s , a f e w f i g s ...
L o f s v o l d : Now, t h e s e w e r e t h e p a c k a g e s t h a t c o m ~ a n i e s made
u p f o r p e o p l e t o s e n d t o s o l d i e r s d u r i n g W o r l d War I I ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I n t h e d e p a r t m e n t s t o r e s , y o u l o o k e d
a t a s a m p l e o f i t a n d i t l o o k e d b e a u t i f u l .
L o f s v o l d : B u t t h e p a c k a g e t h a t t h e y s e n t w a s n ' t t h e same
as t h e s a m p l e t h a t y o u saw?
S c h o o n o v e r . R i g h t . I remember J u d g e G o d d a r d i n t h e
S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t o f New York , a p r o s e c u t i o n c a s e t h e r e .
He t o o k t h e p a c k a g e , o n e o f o u r o f f i c i a l s a m p l e s , o n t h e
b e n c h a n d t h e l o w e r l a y e r was h e l d u p b y s o d a c r a c k e r s o v e r
a p r u n e i n f o u r c o r n e r s and t h e n t h e y h a d e x p e n s i v e maca-
r o o n s a n d s t u f f o n t o p . He t o o k t h e p a c k a g e a n d c h e w i n g
o u t t h e d e f e n d a ~ t , h e s lammed t h e p a c k a g e o n h i s b e n c h a n d
t h e s t u f f w e n t f l y i n g a l l o v e r t h e room.
L o f s v o l d : I r e m e m b e r c o l l e c t i n g a s a m p l e o f o n e o f t h o s e
p a c k a g e s , o n a n a s s i g n m e n t f r o m New Y o r k when I was a R e s i -
d e n t a t S p o k a n e and t h e s h i p m e n t h a d b e e n made t o a s a i l o r
a t F a r r a g u t N a v a l Base, i n I d a h o ,
L o f s v o l d : S t u , y o u h a v e g i v e n u s a l o t o f g o o d i n f o r m a t i o n
h e r e a b o u t w h a t i t was l i k e t o b e a n i n s p e c t o r i n t h e
1 9 3 0 ' s a n d t h e k i n d o f w o r k t h a t y o u d i d . I s t h e r e a n y -
t h i n g e l s e t h a t y o u c a n s a y a b o u t t h a t ?
S c h o o n o v e r : The w o r k t h a t I d i d . . . A t o n e t i m e M r .
W h a r t o n r e q u e s t e d t h a t I s e n d h i m a r e p o r t o f my a c t i v i t i e s
in . . . w h i l e R e s i d e n t a t P r o v i d e n c e , Rhode I s l a n d a n d
s u m m a r i z e t h e work t h a t c o u l d b e d o n e i n t h e t e r r i t o r y . I
t h e r e a f t e r a d d r e s s e d a t h r e e p a g e l e t t e r t o h i m , d a t e d
December 18 , 1 9 3 6 , s e t t i n g f o r t h a l l t h e w o r k a c c o m p l i s h e d
and t h a t w h i c h c o u l d b e a c c o m p l i s h e d i n t h e Rhode I s l a n d ,
Cape Cod a r e a . A g o o d p a r t o f t h e w o r k t h e r e , a t t h a t
t i m e , s i n c e t h e r e was no r e a l l y l a r g e m a n u f a c t u r e r s c o n -
s i s t e d o f s u r v e i l a n c e and p i c k i n g u p l e a d s o n i t e m s t h a t
w e r e m i s b r a n d e d , a d u l t e r a t e d , e t c . Many o f t h e r e q u e s t s
w e r e r e c e i v e d f r o m o t h e r d i s t r i c t s a r o u n d t h e c o u n t r y , t o
c h e c k o n p r o d u c t s s h i p p e d . I n o t i c e d o n t h e c o p y t h a t I
h a v e t h a t t h e r e w e r e s e i z u r e s a n d many s a m p l e s o f t e a s e e d
o i l c o l l e c t e d . D r u g s , s a m p l e s o f c a n n e d s a l m o n , m a c a r o n i ,
t o m a t o p a s t e , a n d i n t h o s e d a y s t h e r e w e r e a l o t m o r e w i l d
' c l a i m s o n d r u g i t e m s , p a t e n t m e d i c i n e s , a number o f w h i c h
came f r o m s m a l l t o w n s i n o t h e r a r e a s o f t h e N e r E n g l a n d
s t a t e s . I t seemed l i k e e a c h l i t t l e c o u n t y h a d i t s own
remedy f o r some p a r t i c u l a r home c u r e and t h e y w e r e n ' t t o o
c a r e f u l a b o u t w h a t c l a i m s t h e y made f o r i t . .
T h e r e w e r e c o l d s t o r a g e s i n P r o v i d e n c e a n d i n New
B e d f o r d a n d F a l l R i v e r . L a t e r d u r i n g t h e d e p r e s s i o n
P r o v i d e n c e a n d F a l l R i v e r t h e y a l m o s t l o o k e d l i k e w a r t o r n
t o w n s b e c a u s e t h e y h a d h u g e b r i c k w a l l e d s t o r a g e s t h a t i n
o r d e r t o s a v e t a x e s t h e y j u s t b l e w t h e m u p a n d t o r e t h e m
down b e c a u s e t h e b u s i n e s s was s o p o o r that : t h e p r o d u c t s
d i d n ' t come f o r s t o r a g e i n many a r e a s .
I w o r k e d v e r y c l o s e l y w i t h C h a r l i e H o p k i n s , who was
t h e h e a d o f t h e Rhode I s l a n d S t a t e F o o d a n d D r u g
A d m i n i s t r a t i o n .
L o f s v o l d : We c a n t a k e t h a t memorandum t h a t y o u w r o t e ,
a p p e n d a c o p y f o r t h e t r a n s c r i p t o f t h i s i n t e r v i e w s o t h
w h o e v e r i s i n t e r e s t e d i n i t c a n r e a d t h e w h o l e s t o r y a s t o
w h a t was g o i n g on. A t t h a t t i m e , t h a t was a new R e s i d e n t
I n s p e c t i o n p o s t , w a s n ' t i t ? You w e r e t h e f i r s t o n e t o go
t h e r e ? Was t h e r e anyone , o t h e r R e s i d e n t p o s t u n d e r B o s t o n
o v e r i n C o n n e c t i c u t a t t h a t t i m e o r was C o n n e c t i c u t t h e n
d i v i d e d w i t h New Y o r k ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No. A t t h a t t i m e , H a r t f o r d m u s t h a v e b e e n
u n d e r t h e B o s t o n D i s t r i c t a t t h a t t i m e , b e c a u s e I -know I
w e n t o v e r t h e r e a number o f t i m e s .
L o f s v o l d : B u t t h e r e was no R e s i d e n t p o s t a t H a r t f o r d ?
S c h o o n o v e r : No.
L o f s v o l d : New Y o r k u s e d t o h a v e somebody u p t h e r e a t
W a t e r b u r y . I w o n d e r i f t h e y ... S c h o o n o v e r : T h e r e was a R e s i d e n t p o s t t h e r e .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was u n d e r t h e New Y o r k o f f i c e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . A t t h a t t i m e I d o n ' t t h i n k t h a t t h e r e
was a n y R e s i d e n t p o s t , o t h e r t h a n t h e i n t i a l one s t a r t e d
a t P r o v i d e n c e . O f c o u r s e , o u t o f a o s t o n y o u w o u l d p r e p a r e
a t r i p a n d u s u a l l y y o u w o u l d go t o , o v e r t o S p r i n g f i e l d ,
M a s s a c h u s e t t s a n d k e e p on and s t a y o v e r n g h t maybe a t N o r t h
Adams, and t h e n up t o V e r m o n t and s w i n g b a c k t h r o u g h W h i t e
R i v e r J u n c t i o n a n d s t o p , i f i t was t h e p r o p e r t i m e o f t h e
y e a r , a t t h e c a n n i n g p l a n t s i n F r y e b u r g , M a i n e a n d t h e n
s w i n g up t o t h e E a s t C o a s t and t h e n b a c k down t o B o s t o n .
O f c o u r s e , B o s t o n h a d a g r e a t d e a l o f wo rk i n t h e s a r d i n e
c a n n e r i e s on u p t o L u b e c , M a i n e a c r o s s f r o ~ n t h e C a n a d i a n
b o r d e r .
L o f s v o l d : Vas t h e r e much d o i n g i n map l e s u g a r a n d m a p l e
s y r u p , i n New E n g l a n d a t t h a t t i m e .
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, b u t n o t t o e x t e n s i v e
T h e r e was one s t o r e p a r t i c u l a r l y i n 3 o s t o n t h a t s p e -
c i a l i z e d i n h a n d l i n g m a p l e s y r u p , f r o m many a r e a s a r o u n d
t h e New E n g l a n d s t a t e s . A g o o d p a r t o f t h e w o r k c o n s i s t e d
o f c o l l e c t i n g s a m p l e s f r o m t h e r e f o r a n a l y s i s t o s e e
w h e t h e r t h e s u g a r was a d u l t e r a t e d o r n o t .
W h i l e w o r k i n g o u t o f New Y o r k , one a r e a p r o d u c e d some
m a p l e s y r u p , i t was a r o u n d C o r t l a n d , New Y o r k . One way o f
c h e c k i n g was t o go t o t h e l o c a l f a r m e r s s u p p l y p l a c e a n d
s t r i k e u p a c o n v e r s a t i o n w i t h t h e m and i n t h e c o u r s e o f
w h i c h y o u w o u l d t r y t o f i n d o u t w h i c h f a r m e r , o r m a p l e
s y r u p p r o d u c e r h a d b o u g h t 100 p o u n d s b a g s o f s u g a r f r o m
them. I f y o u w e r e s u c c e s s f u l y o u c o u l d t r a c e i t b a c k , n o t
n e c e s s a r i l y q u e s t i o n i n g t h e p r o d u c e r t o o much b e c a u s e he
w o u l d n ' t t e l l y o u i n t h e f i r s t p l a c e . B u t t o c h e c k t o s e e
i f he had made any i n t e r s t a t e s h i p m e n t s , a n y t r u c k i n g
l i n e s , o r f r e i g h t o f f i c e s , e t c .
L o f s v o l d : Was l e a d i n m a p l e s y r u p a p r o b l e m a t t h a t t i m e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, t h e r e was i n t h e e a r l y d a y s l e a d i n m a p l e
s y r u p . T h a t was. . . I s h o u l d h a v e m e n t i o n e d t h a t b e f o r e .
T h a t was t h e m a i n p r o b l e m o t h e r t h a n t h e a d u l t e r a t i o n t h a t
was i n v e s t i g a t e d . A g a i n , i t was b a s e d o n s a m p l e s t h a t w e r e
p i c k z d u p and c h e c k e d f o r l e a d c o n t e n t .
L o f s v o l d : T h e r e was no way y o u c o u l d t e l l f rom... .
S c h o o n o v e r : W h e t h e r t h e b u c k e t s w e r e s o l d e r e d , o r w h a t .
L o f s v o l d : I s t h a t w h e r e t h e l e a d came f rom, m o s t l y f r o m
s o l d e r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t ' s my u n d e r s t a n d i n g , p l u s , c o l l e c t i n g
b u c k e t s p a i n t e d w i t h w h i t e l e a d p a i n t .
L o f s v o l d : S t u a r t , a t t h e s t a r t o f t h i s i n t e r v i e w y o u men-
t i o n e d t h a t i n t h e l a t e r y e a r s . b e f o r e y o u r e t i r e d , y o u
w e r e w o r k i n g as an i n d u s t r y l i a s i o n o f f i c e r w i t h t h e New
Y o r k D i s t r i c t . C o u l d y o u t e l l me a l i t t l e b i t a b o u t t h a t
w o r k ?
Sch o o n o v e r : I t h i n k , a c c o r d i n g t o w h a t Weems C l e v e n g e r
t o 1 d me when h e a p p o i n t e d me, t h a t I was t h e f i r s t I n d u s t r y
Re 1 a t i o n s O f f i c e r i n t h e c o u n t r y , w o r k i n g f r o m a D i s t r i c t
in t h e f i e l d . I w e n t i n t o i t , y o u m i g h t s a y c o l d , a n d y o u
p r e p a r e d t h e p r o g r a m y o u r s e l f . I h a d a f e e l i n g t o b e g i n
w i t h t h a t I w o u l d g e t some h e l p f r o m t h e i n s p e c t i o n e n d
o f i t , i n a r e a s t h a t t h e y c o n s i d e r e d m o s t v i o l a t i v e o n
t h e b a s i s o f f o o d , d r u g s , e t c . T h a t d i d n ' t seem t o
e v e n t u a t e , s o I s t a r t e d m y s e l f . The f i r s t o n e I i h e l d was
one f o r C h i n e s e n o o d l e s . It was e v i d e n t t h a t t h e y h a d b e e n
h a v i n g t r o u b l e w i t h t h e s e m a n u f a c t u r e r s . So I f o u n d o u t
who was t h e m a i n C h i n e s e n o o d l e m a n u f a c t u r e r t h a t h a d c o n -
t r o l t o sway o v e r t h e o t h e r s and w e n t t o s e e h im. We h a d a
v e r y n i c e d i s c u s s i o n a n d a f t e r s e v e r a l v i s i t s h e s a i d ,
"I'llh e l p y o u w i t h t h e s e m i n a r , w o r k s h o p , a n d d o n ' t w o r r y
1 ' 1 1 g e t t h e m a l l t h e r e " , w h i c h h e d i d . So we h a d e v e r y
m a n u f a c t u r e r i n t h e w h o l e a r e a come, I t h i n k t h e r e w e r e
a b o u t 2 0 o r s o m e t h i n g l i k e t h a t . Ue he I d i t i n t h e D i s -
t r i c t o f f i c e . T h a t was t h e o n l y one heI d i n a D i s t r i c t
o f f i c e . I h a d t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f A g r i c u l t u r e t h e r e t o t a l k
a b o u t t h e h a n d l i n g o f e g g s , c a n d l i n g , e t c . , a n d a s p e a k e r
f r o m p r i v a t e i n d u s t r y h a v i n g t o do w i t h s a n i t a t i o n , w h i c h
u a s t h e b i g p r o b l e m w i t h C h i n e s e n o o d l e p l a c e s . S a n i t a t i o n
was j u s t a w f u l i n some p l a c e s . They w o u l d g e t u p w i t h
t h e i r s h o e s on and sweep t h e b i n o u t t h a t h a d n o o d l e s com-
i n g o u t d r y , i t d i d n ' t make a n y d i f f e r e n c e t o them. So,
f r o m t h a t i t l e d i n t o q u i t e a f e w o t h e r s e m i n a r s , t h e f i s h
i n d u s t r y , c o s m e t i c s , a number o n d r u g s , s e v e r a l o f w h i c h
t i e d i n t o P u e r t o R i c o and t h e i r o p e r a t i o n s down t h e r e , t h e
f o o d i n d u s t r y a n d t h e d r u g i n d u s t r y . P u e r t o R i c o , a t t h a t
t i m e , h a d a s a d p e r f o r m a n c e i n t h e f o o d i n d u s t r y , b u t I
g u e s s s i n c e t h e n t h e y h a v e w o r k e d u p i n t o b e t t e r
s a n i t a t i o n .
L o f s v o l d : T h i s w o u l d h a v e b e e n a l o n g a b o u t 1 9 6 6 , 6 7 ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : A b o u t t h e t i m e t h a t C o m m i s s i o n e r G o d d a r d came
f r o m C.D.C. a n d s t a r t e d e m p h a s i z i n g v o l u n t a r y c o m p l i a n c e ?
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t , r i g h t .
One o f t h e m o s t i n t e r e s t i n g ones t ' h a t I h e l d , o r p r e -
p a r e d , o r p l a n n e d was t h e one f o r t h e F o r e i g n C o n s u l a t e s ,
i t s b r i e f i n g r e l a t i v e t o FDA l a w s a n d i m p o r t r e q u i r e m e n t s .
A p r o g r a m was p r e p a r e d a n d I h a d a r r a n g e d t o u s e , o r p e r -
m i s s i o n h a d b e e 1 g i v e n t o me t o u s e a l a r g e r o o m i n t h e new
U.S. C o u r t i l o u s e i n t h e S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t i n M a n h a t t a n .
Two d a y s b e f o r e , I f o u n d t h a t some C o n g r e s s m a n h a d r e q u i -
s i t i o n e d t h a t c o u r t r o o m a n d I c o u l d n ' t u s e i t a f t e r a l l t h e
p l a n s h a d b e e n made, w h i c h c a u s e d no e n d o f c o n s t e r n a t i o n .
I i m m e d i a t e l y h a d t o s e t t h e p r o g r a m g o i n g a n d t h e y p e r -
m i t t e d t h e u s e o f a s m a l l e r c o u r t r o o m , b u t we h a d t o t a k e
t h e f r o n t t a b l e s o u t and t h e n I h a d t o p h o n e a n d g e t r e n t a l
c h a i r s t o p u t i n a n d t h e y d e l i v e r e d t h e m o n t i m e a n d f i n -
a l l y g o t e v e r y t h i n g s e t up. E v e n a s i m p l e l i t t l e t h i n g
l i k e t h e c a r d s t h a t I made w i t h t h e names o n f o r t h e
s p e a k e r s a n d p l a c e m e n t w o u l d n ' t f i t o n t h e b e n c h e s t h e way
t h a t I h a d p l a n n e d f o r t h e o t h e r one. So, I h a d t o c h a n g e
t h a t i n a h u r r y . I t h i n k t h a t m o r n i n g I g o t u p a n d w e n t
i n t o t h e o f f i c e a b o u t 4 : 0 0 A.M.to make s u r e t h a t e v e r y t h i n g
was s e t . I t w e n t o f f a l l r i g h t .
L o f s v o l d : T h i s was a t t e n d e d b y t h e r e p r e s e n t a t i v e s o f
f o r e i g n g o v e r n m e n t s ?
S c h o o n o v e r : T h a t i s r i g h t . We h a d q u i t e a f e w r e p r e s e n -
t a t i v e s o f f o r e i g n g o v e r n m e n t s a n d f r o m C o ~ n m u n i s t n a t i o n s .
To w o r k i n t o a f u r t h e r a s p e c t t o i t , I f o u n d t h a t f o r
f u t u r e s u c h p r o g r a m s i t w o r k e d o u t v e r y w e l l t o h a v e t h e
s p e e c h e s p r i n t e d and.. . The Navy h a d a p r i n t i n g o f f i c e ,
a n d a c o m m i s s a r y , c o m m i s s a r y i n t h e A p p r a i s e r s S t o r e B u i l d -
i n g . They h a d a c o m p l e t e s e t up f o r t h e i r p r i n t i n g . I c o n -
t a c t e d t h e m a n d t h e y s a i d t h a t t h e y r a n o u t o f wo rk e v e r y
o n c e i n a w h i l e a n d w e r e g l a d t o h a v e s o m e t h i n g t o do t o
k e e p t h e i r p e o p l e busy . So, a t a n o m i n a l c h a r g e , y o u w r o t e
up t h e p r o g r a m a n d some o f w h i c h , p a r t i c u l a r l y a d r u g p r o -
g ram i n P u e r t o R i c o , was a c c o m p a n i e d by p i c t u r e s i n t h e
p r o g r a m , e t c . , a n d t h e n t h e y p r i n t e d i t up. A c o p y was
t h e r e a f t e r s e n t t o t h e a t t e n d e e s a t t h e c o n f e r e n c e , a n d i t
c r e a t e d a l o t o f i n t e r e s t and t h e y h a d s o m e t h i n g c o n c r e t e
i n t h e i r h a n d s t o remember t h e p r o g r a m w i t h .
L o f s v o l d : I s t h a t t h a t y o u a r e h o l d i n g a c o p y o f t h e
b r i e f i n g p r o g r a m .
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes.
L o f s v o l d : I t i s e n t i t l e d , Speeches F r o m The F o r e i g n
C o n s u l t a t e B r i e f i n g To F u r t h e r U n d e r s t a n d i n q o f FDA Laws
a n d I m p o r t R e q u i r e m e n t s , New Y o r k , New Y o r k , O c t o b e r 2 2 ,
1968.
S t u a r t , do y o u h a v e any o t h e r a n e c d o t e s a b o u t o d d
t h i n g s t h a t h a p p e n e d d u r i n g y o u r c a r e e r ?
S c h o o n o v e r : I r e c a l l a t r i a l i n t h e S o u t h e r n D i s t r i c t o f
New Y o r k , a t w h i c h I h a d t o t e s t i f y . We h a d f o u n d some
s h o r t w e i g h t , q u a r t e r p o u n d c h e e s e s h i p p e d b y K r a f t - P h e n i x
Cheese Co. u p t o C o n n e c t i c u t . I c o l l e c t e d s e v e r a l s a m p l e s ,
s h o r t w e i g h t was p r o v e n i n o u r l a b c h e c k w h i c h r e s u l t e d i n
p r o s e c u t i o n . Hank C r a g i n h a d c h a r g e o f t h e r u n n i n g o f t h e
t r i a l t h e n , f o r FDA, a n d I was o n t h e w i t n e s s s t a n d , I t e s -
t i f i e d i n p a r t a n d I was h a n d e d s a m p l e s h e e t s t o i d e n t i f y ,
c o l l e c t i o n r e p o r t s , e t c . , a n d I h a d a l r e a d y m e n t i o n e d sam-
p l e numbers o n t h e s t a n d a n d h e g a v e me t h o s e s h e e t s t o
i d e n t i f y , b u t somehow i n t o t h e r e c o r d he g a v e me t h e w r o n g
s h e e t s , t h e w r o n g numbers . I s a i d t o m y s e l f , i f I a d m i t
t h a t h e i s i n c o r r e c t i n h a n d i n g t h e w r o n g s a m p l e n u m b e r s ,
i t a i l 1 c a s t a b a d i m p r e s s i o n t o t h e j u r y . So, I w e n t
r i g h t on and t e s t i f i e d a b o u t t h i s s a m p l e number a n d i t
w a s n ' t t h e o n e t h a t I h a d i n my h a n d a n d i t g o t by.
L o f s v o l d : Nobody n o t i c e d ?
S c h o o n o v e r : B u t b o y , d o y o u s w e a t f o r a s e c o n d l i k e t h a t .
I was d e a d wrong . I was u n d e r o a t h on t h e s t a n d .
L o f s v o l d : I f t h e d e f e n s e c o u n s e l h a d p i c k e d t h a t u p , i t
w o u l d h a v e b e e n r a t h e r damag ing .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t . I was r i g h t i n o n e s e n s e b u t w r o n g i n
a n o t h e r .
L o f s v o l d : You w e r e t e s t i f y i n g a b o u t w h a t y o u a c t u a l l y d i d ,
b u t n o t t h e p i e c e o f p a p e r t h a t t h e y were o f f e r i n g f o r
e n t r y i n t h e e v i d e n c e .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
Oh, a l o t o f l i t t l e s i l l y t h i n g s happened . T h e r e was
a d r u g t r i a l , I t h i n k i t was F o r t Wayne, I n d i a n a o n e t i m e ,
I was w o r k i n g o u t o f C h i c a g o . The S t a t e I n s p e c t o r , I c a n ' t
remember t h e e x a c t p r o d u c t , b u t t h e S t a t e I n s p e c t o r h a d
g i v e n some h e l p , b u t he h a p p e n e d t o be a n i n d i v i d u a l whose
n a t u r a l f a c i a l e x p r e s s i o n l o o k e d l i k e h e was s m i l i n g a l l o f
t h e t i m e . I c a n s e e h i m s i t t i n g i n t h e c o u r t r o o m , t h e
j u d g e u p f r o n t , a n d t h e j u d g e k e p t l o o k i n g a t t h i s man a n d
h e m u s t h a v e g o t t h e f e e l i n g t h a t t h i s i n d i v i d u a l was mak-
i n g f u n o f h im. F i n a l l y , h e o r d e r e d h i m o u t o f t h e c o u r t -
room. He j u s t h a d a n a t u r a l e x p r e s s i o n .
The j u d g e s , t h e way t h e y a c t , J u d g e bleaney, i n Newark ,
h e was a J e r s e y C i t y p o l i t i c i a n b e f o r e he was made a j u d g e ,
I guess. T h e r e was a d r u g c a s e a g a i n s t Premo P h a r m a c e u t i -
c a l Co., t h e o t h e r d a y I n o t i c e d i n t h e p a p e r t h a t t h e y a r e
s t i l l i n t r o u b l e . They h a d a number o f p r o s e c u t i o n s .
I was s i t t i n g w i t h a P o s t a l I n s p e c t o r , a n d h e p r o -
n o u n c e d s e n t e n c e i n t h i s c a s e a n d I t h o u g h t i t was a l -
t o g e t h e r o u t l a n d i s h , f o r t h e v i o l a t i o n , a n d I t u r n e d my
h e a d t o t h e P o s t a l I n s p e c t o r he was i n o n t h e c a s e t o o ,
maybe I w h i s p e r e d a w o r d o r s o m e t h i n g b u t anyway t h e c a s e
t h a t was i t and we w e n t o u t and j u s t g o t o u t t h e d o o r a n d
t h e j u d g e y e l l e d f r o m t h e f r o n t , "Young man, y o u n g man",
d i d y o u h a v e a n y t h i n g t o s a y a b o u t s e n t e n c e I j u s t
i m p o s e d ?
L o f s v o l d : Oh, no.
S c h o o n o v e r : I f e l t l i k e s a y i n g , I s u r e a s h e l l d i d y o u r
h o n o r . Anyway, f i n a l l y h e s a i d , " S k i p i t " , a n d I w e n t o n
o u t . He was a.. . you c o u l d n ' t a g r e e w i t h t h e Judge . You
w o u l d s c h e d u l e t h e c a s e s , he w o u l d c a l l y o u i n f o r a p r e -
s e n t e n c i n g d i s c u s s i o n . B e f o r e h e w e n t i n t o c o u r t t h a t
m o r n i n g he w o u l d know w h a t h i s s e n t e n c e was g o i n g t o be, h e
w o u l d h a v e e v e r . y t h i n g l i n e d u p a n d i t w e n t o f f l i k e c l o c k -
w o r k . Why, t h a t w a s n ' t f a i r . J u s t r a n t h e m r i g h t o f f a n d
t h a t was i t . You h a v e t o l i s t e n t o a l i t t l e t e s t i m o n y ,
e x t e n u a t i n g c i r c u m s t a n c e s , e t c . .
L o f s v o l d : Yes.
S c h o o n o v e r : I t d i d n ' t make any d i f f e r e n c e t o h i m , boom, h e
g o t t h r o u g h h i s c a s e s i n a h u r r y a n d h e w o u l d go p l a y g o l f
o r s o m e t h i n g i n t h e a f t e r n o o n s .
A n o t h e r J u d g e i s J u d g e G o d d a r d i n New Y o r k . We h a d
t w o f i l t h c a s e s . One a g a i n s t t h i s b i g c a n d y f i r m , w h a t was
t h e name o f i t , i n New Y o r k ? T h e y s i n c e b u i l t a h u g e
p l a n t , t h e y w e r e n e a r o u r o f f i c e on V a r i c k S t r e e t . . .
W i l l i a m s was t h e I n s p e c t o r and h e f o u n d m i c e i n t h e s e c o n d
o r t h i r d f l o o r a n d t h e y w e r e v e r y h o n e s t i n t h a t ...t h e y
were h o n e s t . They a sked f o r t h e government p h o t o g r a p h s ,
t h e y a l l o w e d them t o t a k e p i c t u r e s and the.y e n l a r g e d t h e n
and t h e y p u t them i n t h e d i f f e r e n t d e p a r t m e n t s w i t h some
such e x p r e s s i o n , n e v e r l e t t h i s happen a g a i n . I t was an
example t o t h e i r employees . About t h a t t i ~ n e , t o o , t h e r e
was a S i l v e r s t e i n i n t h e Bronx, a d i s t r i b u t o r of c a n d y ,
s m a l l l o t s . He was o n l y a p e a n u t compared w i t h t h i s b i g
candy f i r m who d e a l t i n m i l l i o n s and s h i p p e d a round t h e
wor ld . He had g o t t e n h o l d of some p h e n o l p h t h a l e i n l a x a -
t i v e gum, and he p u t some new wrappe r s o n and s o l d i t f o r
r e g u l a r gum. Wel l , t h e r e were c o m p l a i n t s f rom p a r e n t s i n
C o n n e c t i c u t . . .
I n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h t h a t , he had candy m a n u f a c t u r e d i n
l i k e a g a r a g e i n t h e back of h i s p l a c e , and t h e r e was some
f i l t h found . Wel l , he was b r o u g h t i n t o c o u r t f o r s e n -
t e n c i n g t h e same day a s . . . [ d o n ' t know why I c a n ' t remem-
b e r t h e name of t h a t b i g candy f i r m . . . He was f i n e d
$ 1 , 0 0 0 , t h e s m a l l one. The l a r g e m a n u f a c t u r e r . t h e j u d g e
w a i t e d u n t i l t h e t h i r d c a l l , t h e r e p o r t e r s had l e f t t o go
back t o t h e i r p a p e r s , e t c . and t h e n when he came u p , " T h i s
i s t h e f i r m on Hudson S t r e e t ? " "Oh, y e s . " A $50.00 f i n e
and t h a t was i t . We l l , t h e y were j u s t a s bad a s t h e o t h e r
guy. I t shows t h e d i f f e r e n c e between one w i t h . . .
L o f s v o l d : Yes.
Schoonove r : Ano the r c a s e t h a t I had t o do w i t h , was t h e
u se of benzene h e x a c h l o r i d e t o c o n t r o l w i r e worms i n
p o t a t o p r o d u c t i o n i n Monrnouth C o u n t y . T h e r e w e r e s e v e r a l
p h a s e s . The b e n z e n e hex , i m p a r t e d a v e r y m u s t y o d o r , o r
r a t h e r t a s t e t o p o t a t o e s . They h a d a m i n i r i o t i n Rahway
P r i s o n , o n e t i m e , t h e p r i s o n e r s s a i d t h e p o t a t o e s a r e r o t -
t e n and s t a r t e d t h r o w i n g t h e m a r o u n d t h e t a b l e , e t c . a n d I
was s e n t down t o i n v e s t i g a t e .
T h e n t h e r e r a s a c a r l o a d s h i p p e d f r o m F r e e h o l d t o
A t l a n t a , a n d i t was s e i z e d down t h e r e . I h a d t o go down t o
t e s t i f y . So, I t e s t i f i e d a t t h e t r i a l . I g o t h a l f way
t h r o u g h t h e t e s t i m o n y a b o u t c h e c k i n g o n t h e p l a c e , and sam-
p l e s o f t h e d i r t : u n d e r n e a t h t h e p o t a t o i n t h e f i e l d t h a t I
h a d c o l l e c t e d a n d t h e c r o p i t s e l f f o r a n a l y s i s i n t h e New
Y o r k l a b o r a t o r y ' and i t was a s e i z u r e c o n t e s t . The j u d g e
a s k e d . "What h a p p e n e d t o t h e p o t a t o e s ? " W e l l , I s t o p p e d my
t e s t i m o n y a n d t h ~ e U.S. A t t o r n e y s a i d , " W e l l , t h e y h a v e
s i n c e s p o i l e d a n d w e r e t h r o w n o u t " . The j u d g e s a i d " w h a t
a r e we a r g u i n g a b o u t , i t i s a m o o t q u e s t i o n . " T h e c a s e was
d i s m i s s e d . H e r e I h a d made a t r i p a l l t h e way down h e r e t o
t e s t i f y .
L o f s v o l d : T h a t was i n t h a t p e r i o d when t h e new o r g a n i c
p e s t i c i d e s w e r e c o m i n g o u t one a f t e r t h e o t h e r , r i g h t a f t e r
W o r l d War 11. Some o f t h e s e w e r e u s e d and n o b o d y knew w h a t
was g o i n g t o h a p p e n when y o u u s e d them.
S c h o o n o v e r : To c a r r y t h a t s t o r y f u r t h e r . A b o a t l o a d o f
c o f f e e s u n k i n New Y o r k h a r b o r . I t was t a k e n o u t a n d s e n t
down t o M i l h u r s t W i l l i n g , West F r e e h o l d , t h e y h a d a b i g
c o m m e r c i a l d r y i n g o p e r a t i o n i n c o n n e c t i o n w i t h a l u m b e r
y a r d o p e r a t i o n . T h e y d r i e d , s o many h u n d r e d b a g s o f c o f f e e
t h e r e , a n d F D A t e s t e d i t a f t e r w a r d s a n d f o u n d i t was s t i11
u n f i t b e c a u s e t h e r e was n o c o f f e e t a s t e l e f t i n i t a f t e r
s o a k i n g i n s a l t w a t e r . So, t h e r e s u l t was t o g e t i t u n d e r
s e i z u r e , i t h a d t o b e g o t t e n r i d o f and we w e r e t o s u p e r -
v i s e t h e d i s t r u c t i o n o f i t . How t o a r r a n g e f o r i t . W e l l , I
c a l l e d t h e . . . n o l o c a l g a r b a g e dump w o u l d t a k e i t . So, I
c a l l e d t h e S t a t e D e p a r t m e n t o f H e a l t h and t h e y c o u l d n ' t
come up w i t h a n y name t h a t w o u l d t a k e i t . So, f i n a l l y I
t h o u g h t o f t h i s same man, t h e f a r m e r t h a t we h a d s e i z e d t h e
c a r l o a d o f p o t a t o e s on, h e k e p t b e e f c a t t e i n p a r t t o
f u r n i s h f e r t i l i z e r f o r h i s p o t a t o f i e l d s , e t c . a n d he was a
r e d h e a d w i t h a b i g t e m p e r , r e d h e a d e d . We 1, t h e r e was
n o t h i n g t o l o s e , h e c o u l d u s e i t f o r f e r t l i z e r . So, I
w e n t o v e r , a n d h e l o o k e d me o v e r f i r s t , "You h a d t h e n e r v e
t o come b a c k h e r e ? " So a f t e r we t a l k e d f o r a w h i l e , h e
s a i d , "Yes , b r i n g i t o v e r , I'llm i x i t w i t h t h e m a n u r e " .
I t t u r n e d o u t we d r a g g e d 2 7 t r u c k l o a d s o f c o f f e e o u t
t h e r e .
L o f s v o l d : Oh, no.
S c h o o n o v e r : So, h e g o t good u s e o f i t f o l * f e r t i l i z e r .
L o f s v o l d : P a i d h i m b a c k f o r h i s p o t a t o e s .
S c h o o n o v e r : R i g h t .
One t i n e i n B o s t o n , f o l l o w i n g a f r e e z e i n F l o r i d a , a
13ad of o r a n g e s u p t h e r e i n t h e marke t . Ye were c h e c k i n g ,
and you would c u t them i n h a l f and t h e n u s e an i n d e l i b l e
p e n c i l t o check t h e d r y a r e a s and i f i t i s o v e r a c e r t a i n
p e r c e n t a g e , why i t would be a s e i z u r e .
L o f s v o l d : I f i t f r e e z e s , t h o s e o r a n g e s t h a t a r e f r o z e n
have no j u i c e i n them?
Schoonover : Tha t i s r i g h t , t h e y a r e d r y . I was g o i n g
a round w i t h J a w Lenahan , f rom t h e Bos ton Depa r tmen t of
H e a l t h . We h i t one l o t t h a t was j u s t b o r d e r l i n e . I s a i d
t o J a c k , "We c a n ' t t a k e a c h a n c e on t h i s b e c a u s e i t would
be u n f a i r " . J a c k s a i d , " I d o n ' t know a b o u t y o u , b u t I
w i l l , l e t ' s d e s t r o y t h e e v i d e n c e . " He c a l l e d t h e c i t y dump
t r u c k and took t h e whole l o a d o u t , t h r e w i t on a scow,
and went o u t t o s e a and t h a t was t h e end o f i t . He s a i d ,
"Now l e t them howl."
L o f s v o l d : He d i d n ' t have t o worry a b o u t g o i n g t o t r i a 1 .
Schoonove r : We can t a l k a b o u t a l l t h e f l o o d work up t h e r e
t h a t I worked on. A f l o o d i n t h e New England s t a t e s , I ' v e
g o t a b o o k l e t showing a l l of i t e m s i n t h e C e n t r a l a r e a s , a
t r o l l e y c a r u n d e r w a t e r and. . .
L o f s v o l d : You know, I remember w h i l e I was h e r e a t New
York we had t w o h u r r i c a n e s i n C o n n e c t i c u t , j u s t a b o u t a
week a p a r t . I remember t h a t you were u p t h e r e on t h a t . I
t h i n k you and some o t h e r s t ook a c rew of i n s p e c t o r s u p
t h e r e , a n d w h i l e y o u w e r e t h e r e t h e s e c o n d one came
t h r o u g h .
S c h o o n o v e r : P r o v i d e n c e , t h a t was a b i g one.
L o f s v o l d : Yes.
S c h o o n o v e r : T h e y p u l l e d u s b a c k t o W o o n s o c k e t a n d we s a t
t h e r e . They h a d j u s t f i n i s h e d p u t t i n g a w indow i n t h e
s t o r e a c r o s s t h e s t r e e t . We w e r e p e e k i n g o u t t h e w indow,
w i t h t h e w i n d h o w l i n g t h e r e , a n d o u t comes t h e o r a n g e s a n d
e v e r y t h i n g a g a i n , r o l l i n g o u t i n t h e s t r e e t .
L o f s v o l d : F o r t h e s e c o n d t i m e .
S c h o o n o v e r : F r o m one S a t u r d a y t o t h e n e x t .
L o f s v o l d : I t h i n k y o u came t o some t o w n w h e r e t h e y w e r e
h a v i n g an a w f u l f l y p r o b l e m ?
S c h o o n o v e r : W e b s t e r . U e b s t e r , M a s s a c h u s e t t s . Oh, y o u r
memory s e r v e s y o u w e l l , d o e s n ' t i t .
L o f s v o l d : Yes.
S c h o o n o v e r : Yes, t h a t was v e r y i n t e r e s t i ~ i g t h e r e . I n
o t h e r w o r d s y o u w e n t i n t o t o w n t o c h e c k a n d s o r t o f h e l p
s u p e r v i s e a n d some o f t h e a r e a s , l i k e t h e gas s t a t i o n , w e l l
y o u h a d some p i p e s s t i c k i n g u p o u t o f t h e g r o u n d , t h a t ' s
a l l . They w e r e d u m p i n g t h e s t u f f f r o m t h e s t o r e s , t h e
f o o d , e t c . i n t h e o p e n f i e l d s a t one e n d o f t o w n . P resum-
a b l y h a d somebody t o d o u b l e c h e c k on i t , b u t p e o p l e were
c o m i n g f r o m a n o t h e r a r e a and s t e a l i n g t h e c a n n e d g o o d s
r i g h t and l e f t t h a t h a d b e e n dumped i n t h e f i e l d . So, we
h a d a m e e t i n g e v e r y n i g h t o f t h e t o r n f a t h e r s , t o g o o v e r
w h a t h a d b e e n clone. You know y o u c a l l a t t e n t i o n t o t h e s e
t h i n g s ... B u t t h e b i g p r o b l e m , as y o u m e n t i o n e d was f l i e s . Boy,
y o u h a d t o f i g h t y o u r ,day i n t o t h e r e s t a u r a n t s w i t h t h e
f l i e s a l l t h e way a r o u n d y o u . T h a t i s when I a s k e d t h e m i f
t h e r e w a s n ' t a f r u i t g r o w e r w i t h a h i g h p r e s s u r e r i g , a n d
s o f o r t h . So t h e y g o t some m a l a t h i o n a n d w e n t o u t i n t h e
m i d d l e o f n i g h t , a f t e r m i d n i g h t , a n d s p r a y e d a n d i t r e a l l y
c o n t r o l l e d them.
L o f s v o l d : S p r a y e d t h e w h o l e t o w n .
S c h o o n o v e r : W e l l , e s p e c i a l l y i n t h e a r e a s w h e r e t h e r i v e r
was and t h e w a t e r came t h r o u g h .
L o f s v o l d : Yes. I t h i n k t h a t was t h e same f l o o d w o r k when
B i l l Conway was v i t h y o u and h e c o n t r a c t e d p o l i o a n d was
o f f w o r k f o r s e v e r a l m o n t h s , a s a r e s u l t . I t h i n k h e made
a v e r y g o o d r e c o ' v e r y a n d he i s s t i l l w o r k i n g i n
P h i l a d e l p h i a .
S c h o o n o v e r : P a r t o f t h a t same f l o o d w o r k I was a s s i g n e d t o
i n t h e s o u t h e n d o f P r o v i d e n c e . T h e r e was a h u g e w a r e -
h o u s e , a n d i t e m s t h a t w e r e i n u n d a t e d w i t h f l o o d w a t e r s ,
f o o d p r o d u c t s , e t c . i n t h e w a r e h o u s e . T h e s e w e r e t a k e n
c a r e o f f o r d e s t r u c t i o n , i n p a r t , t h e y d u g a . . . b u l l d o z e r s
y o u c o u l d a l m o s t b u r y a h o u s e i n t h e h o l e t h a t t h e y d u g
t h e r e . T h o s e i t e m s w e r e t a k e n c a r e o f .
I remember one b i g l o t f o r t h e A a n d P , c a r l o a d s o f
j e l l i e s a n d ' jams, s e a l e d y o u know. W e l l , t h e s i l t g e t s u p
u n d e r n e a t h t h a t c a p and t h e r e i s n o t much y o u c a n do, e v e n
i f y o u c l e a n and s t e r i l i z e i t . So, L e o L u s b y who h a d r e -
t i r e d a s C h i e f I n s p e c t o r a t New Y o r k D i s t r i c t , was t h e n
w o r k i n g f o r U n d e r w r i t e r s I n s u r a n c e Co. and t h e g r o u p was
o f f t o t h e s i d e , I c o u l d see t h e m t a l k i n g , w e l l I was
w o r k i n g i n a n o t h e r s e c t i o n a n d f i n a l l y L e o came o v e r s a i d
t o me, "We c o u l d s a n i t i z e t h e s e a n d u s e t h e m a g a i n i n t h e
s t o r e s " , a n d I l o o k e d a t h i m and s a i d , " L e o , t h a t i s n o t
t h e way t h a t y o u t a u g h t me". He t u r n e d a r o u n d a n d w e n t
r i g h t b a c k .
T h o s e l i t t l e t h i n g s y o u j u s t n e v e r f o r g e t .
L o f s v o l d : 1 ' 1 1 j u s t c l o s e i t o f f , S t u , b y s a y i n g t h a n k y o u
v e r y much f o r t a k i n g t h e t i m e t o r e c o r d w i t h me t o d a y .
These a n c e d o t e s t h a t y o u h a v e b r o u g h t u p w i l l c e r t a i n l y be
h a n d y m a t e r i a l f o r w h o e v e r w a n t s t o r e a d a b o u t t h e e a r l y
d a y s o f t h e Food a n d D r u g A d m i n i s t r a t i o n . Thank y o u v e r y
much.
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