day 228 public gilligan 062006. - commission to...
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228
COMMISSION TO INQUIRE INTO CHILD ABUSE
PUBLIC HEARING
HELD AT HERBERT PARK HOTEL
BALLSBRIDGE, DUBLIN 4
ON TUESDAY, 20TH JUNE 2006 - DAY 228
EVIDENCE OF MR. PAUL GILLIGAN
BEFORE:
MR. JUSTICE SEÁN RYAN
CHAIRPERSON OF THE INQUIRY
and
MS. MARIAN SHANLEY
MR. FRED LOWE
I hereby certify thefollowing to be a trueand accurate transcriptof my shorthand notes ofthe evidence in theabove-named action.
______________________
MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION PRESENT:
REGISTRAR TO INVESTIGATION COMMITTEE: MR. B. REEDY
COUNSEL FOR THE COMMISSION: MR. N. MacMAHON SC MS. L. RATTIGAN BL
Instructed by: MS. E. McHUGH
FOR THE DEPARTMENT OFEDUCATION AND SCIENCE: MR. C. DIGNAM BL
Instructed by: CSSO
MR. P. GAGEBY SC
Instructed by:
MR. D. McGRATH SC
Instructed by:
COPYRIGHT: Transcripts are the work of Gwen Malone Stenography Services and they must not be photocopied or reproduced in any manner or supplied or loaned by an appellant to a respondent or to by other party without written permission of Gwen Malone Stenography Services.
INDEX
WITNESS EXAMINATION QUESTION NO.
MR. GILLIGAN
QUESTION - THE COMMISSION 1 - 10
EXAMINED - MR. GAGEBY 11 - 133
EXAMINED - MR. McGRATH 134 - 195
FURTHER QUESTIONED - THE COMMISSION 196 - 218
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THE HEARING COMMENCED AS FOLLOWS ON TUESDAY, 20TH JUNE
2006:
THE CHAIRPERSON: Good morning.
MR. COONEY: Mr. Justice Ryan.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Hold on for a minute, we
will get this over with,
first of all.
MR. COONEY: First of all, would you
please hear me. I have a
specific formal request to make of you.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Very good. Yes, all right,
Mr. Cooney.
MR. COONEY: I would ask you to grant me
legal representation.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Well, there is no
need for you to be granted
legal representation, Mr. Cooney, at least at this
point. If the question arises when you need to be
granted legal representation, then you need to be
granted legal representation.
MR. COONEY: I think the situation has
already arisen, namely
yesterday, when the remarks were made and you did not
protect or vindicate my legal rights yesterday.
THE CHAIRPERSON: We have heard that,
Mr. Cooney, and you have
made that position clear.
MR. COONEY: It is a legal position.
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But I am seeking
representation now. I think it is a valid request.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Very good. Let's leave
that request for the
moment, Mr. Cooney. I have indicated that, certainly
in my view, there is no need for that at this moment
but I just want to wait for a moment because I know
that Mr. O'Sullivan wants to say something, so we are
going to hear what Mr. O'Sullivan has to say and we
will see what happens.
MR. COONEY: And his statement is
without prejudice to my
position.
THE CHAIRPERSON: What statement is without
prejudice to your position?
MR. COONEY: Whatever statement
Mr. O'Sullivan makes on
behalf of Mr. Lankford, I consider it is without
prejudice to my own position in seeking legal
representation. If need be initiating measure -- you
know, legal remedy to defend myself against the moral
and material damage that has been done to me inside of
this Commission.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you want to get yourself
a chair or to sit down
there for the moment, Mr. Cooney, and we will see what
happens and then we will proceed. Please pull up so
that you can sit at the table.
MR. COONEY: Thank you.
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THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Now,
Mr. O'Sullivan.
MR. O'SULLIVAN: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I
appear instructed by
Maxwell solicitors and with your permission I would
like to address the Commission briefly on comments that
were made by Mr. Padraig Lankford in relation to
Mr. Cooney. Mr. Lankford has instructed me to read out
an apology to Mr. Cooney and to the Committee. With
your permission I will now do that.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, please do that.
MR. O'SULLIVAN: Yesterday morning during
the course of a hearing
before the Committee Mr. Padraig Lankford, solicitor,
interrupted the examination of a witness by Mr. David
McGrath, senior counsel, and made comments which were
critical of Mr. John Cooney, author and journalist.
Mr. Lankford now wishes to withdraw absolutely these
comments, and any other comment which he made during
the course of his intervention which might be
interpreted as being critical of Mr. Cooney. He also
apologises unreservedly and without qualification to
Mr. Cooney for any offence which these comments may
have caused.
During the Mr. McGrath's examination, Mr. Lankford
suddenly became concerned that an incident referred to
in a book written by Mr. Cooney would be mentioned
before the Committee, notwithstanding that the Chairman
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of the Committee had stated at the public hearing on
Tuesday, 13th June 2006 that the Committee would not
have any regard to the matter unless the Committee was
referred to it in writing. It was in this context that
Mr. Lankford spontaneously made his personal
intervention in the heat of the moment, so to speak.
He accepts that the comments were inappropriate and for
that reason he is now happy to issue his unreserved and
unqualified withdrawal and apology and for it to be
read into the record of the Committee's hearings.
Further, Mr. Lankford apologise to the Committee for
any inconvenience which his comments may have caused to
it and he hopes that this statement will put the matter
right. That's the conclusion of the statement and
apology, Mr. Chairman.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Yes,
Mr. MacMahon. I am sorry,
Mr. Cooney, yes.
MR. COONEY: I would request that you
adjourn in order to give me
time to have legal advice as to regard my position in
the light of the statement and combining that with my
request for legal assistance.
THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Well, we have a
request for legal
representation by Mr. Cooney arising out of events
which happened yesterday. Since then we have had an
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apology by Mr. O'Sullivan on behalf of Mr. Lankford in
request of the comments made. Nothing that happens
here, or nothing that we say or determine here, affects
in any way any rights that Mr. Cooney has and he is
free, of course, to seek legal advice as to how he
should proceed. That's entirely a matter for him and
we say nothing about that and nothing I say is going to
impair any rights that he has.
As to the question of legal representation. There is
nothing that is within the remit of the Committee or
the Commission which could be investigated that would
be a relevant matter and there is no question in the
circumstances of any legal representation being granted
that would create an issue that would not be a proper
issue for this Inquiry, this Tribunal. But, as I say,
nothing of this in any way affects anything, any
entitlement of Mr. Cooney to seek such redress as he
may be advised or as he may think proper.
But in the circumstances, we note what has been said by
Mr. Cooney and by Mr. O'Sullivan on behalf of
Mr. Lankford. So we now proceed with the matter. Yes,
Mr. Cooney.
MR. COONEY: I take your point and I
will pursue this and take
legal advice. Given, however, that the remarks which I
regard as grossly defamatory were said in this
Commission and were unchallenged until several hours
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later I had to seek vindication of my position. I
think and I am convinced that you were in dereliction
of your duties as Chairman of this Commission and I
would ask you to consider your position as Chairman of
this Commission pending the resolution of my legal
complaint, of which I am not being granted legal
representation by the State.
I consequently ask you to adjourn to give me time as a
private citizen who has had to go off the story today
from my newspaper the Irish Independent, who has
suffered trauma last night and yesterday because of the
inaction of this Committee in defence of my rights, I
do not think in conscience that you can continue this
hearing until my particular case is underway in terms
of legal advice.
I stand here unprotected in law and I think it is
disgraceful that you have not granted me legal rights.
Mr. Lankford here is sitting with his legal
representatives, a whole quarry of lawyers, and I am
here looking for representation and I am denied it. I
think this is an appalling miscarriage of justice and I
think you should be ashamed of yourself, sir, in this
Commission. Once again I think you should consider
your position.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Very good. Thank you,
Mr. Cooney. Now we propose
to succeed, there is a lot of other -- there is a lot
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of work to be done today. Yes, Mr. MacMahon.
MR. MacMAHON: Yes, Chairman. The next
witness who it is proposed
to call is Mr. Paul Gilligan, who is the Chief
Executive Officer of the Irish Society For Prevention
of Cruelty to Children. Perhaps Mr. Gilligan could be
sworn in.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Good morning,
Mr. Gilligan.
MR. PAUL GILLIGAN, HAVING BEEN SWORN, WAS QUESTIONED,
AS FOLLOWS, BY THE COMMISSION:
Q. MR. MacMAHON: I think, Mr. Gilligan, as I 1
said, you are the Chief
Executive Officer of the ISPCC and I think that's an
organisation was is in existence since 18th January
1956?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think prior to that, the functions of the ISPCC were 2
performed by the National Society for the Prevention of
Cruelty to Children which is a London based
organisation which had branches in Ireland from 1889 up
until 1956?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think the ISPCC was created on 18th January 1956 and 3
it took over those functions on 1st March of that year?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think it assumed responsibility for all the work 4
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previously done by the NSPCC?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think for the purpose of preparing a statement for 5
the Commission and also for the purpose of preparing to
give evidence to the Commission, the Society has relied
on various sources of information. I think, first and
foremost, a review of documentation in the possession
of the Society was performed?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think that the information available, which has been 6
referred to in the statement provided, comprise of some
original sources, Inspector's handbooks, that kind of
thing, and also a number of reviews which were prepared
over the years and presented on behalf of the Society?
A. A number of annual reports, that's correct.
Q. I think there is some limitation of the documentation 7
which is available, I think that's partially explained
by a fire which occurred in the Molesworth Street
office of the Society, I think it was in 1961?
A. That's correct, there are significant limitations in
the amount of material available to us. Unfortunately,
we don't have an explanation as to where the other
material has gone, there was a fire in our head office
in 1961, perhaps material was destroyed in that. With
the change, with the formation of the ISPCC in 1956
perhaps some material was brought over to London to the
headquarters of NSPCC. Certainly some annual reports
were brought over there and some administration files,
but unfortunately we cannot account for where the files
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are gone or material is gone.
Q. Have inquiries been made in London as to whether papers 8
were sent there and what papers reside there?
A. Yes, the inquiries we made to London have indicated
that they are not in position of any case material,
that we have annual reports, copies of which we have
now obtained and have in our head office in Molesworth
Street. So it would appear that they are not in
possession of any case files at this moment in time.
Q. I think in preparing for the statement and for your 9
evidence there has been some liaison with former staff
of the Society?
A. That's correct.
Q. I think those staff members who survive were contacted 10
in writing, I think?
A. That's correct. In preparation for our statement to
the Commission we wrote to 46 former staff based on
having addresses for those staff and based on our
judgment as to whether they would have any information
to give us. Now, previously we had written to a small
number of staff in attempts to find where the files may
have gone. Out of those staff, very few numbers,
actually, we were in a position to contact. Very few
came back to us. We have overall in the last five
years talked to five social workers, one inspector, a
CEO, a previous CEO, a financial fundraising person, an
administrator, a chairman and a board member. So 12
members of staff in total over the last three to four
years.
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MR. MacMAHON: I think you are here
representing the Society to
answer any questions that may arise and I think that
questions initially are going to be raised by
Mr. Gageby and I think Mr. McGrath then may have some
questions for you and I may have some follow on
questions after that.
THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Thank you.
MR. MacMAHON: Thank you.
END OF QUESTIONING OF MR. GILLIGAN BY THE COMMISSION
THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, Mr. Gageby.
MR. PAUL GILLIGAN WAS THEN EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY
MR. GAGEBY:
MR. GAGEBY: Good morning, Mr. Gilligan.
A. Good morning.
Q. I appear as amicus curiae to the Commission. I think 11
you have very helpfully put together a large amount of
materials to assist in looking at the background to the
committal of children to the industrial school system?
A. Yes. Well, we have attempted to cooperate fully with
the work of the Commission. We welcome the opportunity
to be able to contribute to the work and hope that we
can clarify some of the roles of the ISPCC. So we have
engaged consultants in the last few month to review the
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documentation. We had archived the files a number of
years ago and we have responded to discovery orders and
attempted to locate as much information as we can.
Q. I think, looking at the documents, firstly we have the 12
more formal documents which would deal with the
establishment of the Society, the Inspector's rule
books and the like. We then also have some case files,
not countrywide unfortunately; isn't that correct?
A. That's correct. We have annual reports, in fact dating
back to 1900. Pre-1956 those annual reports consisted
of branch reports, which makes reviewing of them quite
difficult because it would be 13 or 14 reports for each
year. But from 1956 onwards we have annual reports for
each year pertaining just to Ireland, the ISPCC. The
situation with the case files is we have 8,000 old case
files. They relate to specific areas, Mayo, Wexford
and Cork, I think are the three areas. So there is no
case files existing relating to other areas
unfortunately.
Q. Just so we get an overview, because I think the main 13
interest of the Committee is probably really from the
mid-1930's through to the 1970's. Firstly, roughly --
we know the Society was organised in local divisions,
roughly how many inspectors would have been operating,
and it is a very rough estimate, let's say in the
1930's and were these people full time?
A. Yes, we estimate that we have 14 branches within
Ireland and that there was an Inspector connected to
each branch. At some stage, and we suspect it may have
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been later, perhaps in the 1940's or 1950's, Dublin was
divided into five areas and an Inspector was employed
for each of those areas. I think, basically the review
of the material, it would appear that we have 14
Inspectors which later raised to 18 Inspectors, five of
which were based in Dublin.
Q. Were these people full time? 14
A. Yes, they were full-time employees.
Q. What was the essential remit of the Society both 15
theoretically, in other words under the rule book, and,
in fact, in the 1930's what was the function of the
NSPCC in Irish Society?
A. The functions of the Society remarkably have remained
consistent pretty much to the 1970's and were
identified when the NSPCC was first established.
Q. In a nutshell that would be? 16
A. To prevent the public and private wrongs of children
and the corruption of their morals, to prevent the
corruption of their morals. To take action for the
enforcement of laws for the protection of children. To
provide and maintain an organisation for the above
objects and to do all such things that are lawful to
ensure that these objectives are obtained. Those
key -- that mission statement is identified in the
Royal Charter -- but it is consistently restated in the
annual reports right the way up to the 1970's.
Q. So would it be true to say this was -- to use the 17
modern phrase, child centre, that had the welfare of
the child was first and paramount consideration?
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A. Yes, it is very difficult to judge -- review the
material, other than to say that clearly from the
annual reports and from the Inspector's directory, of
which we have two copies, a 1947 copy and a 1960 copy
which has some slight amendments, yes, it is a clear
statement that the protection of children from cruelty
-- the prevention of cruelty, the protection of
children was the core mission statement and was the
driving principle of the organisation.
Q. Reviewing the materials, how typically might an 18
Inspector, either in a rural or an urban area, come to
visit a family or to investigate a child and its
welfare?
A. Well, the annual reports, I suppose, provide us with a
rich source of information, vis-a-vis that. Just two
point to make on that: In most of the annual reports
there is an identification of the referral source to an
Inspector and there is also a clear indication of the
nature of the complaint or what the category of the
complaint would be viewed as. I suppose there is two
key points to make on that: The category of complaint
is clearly related to the 1908 Children Act which was
the legislation that appeared to drive the work of the
ISPCC, NSPCC Inspectors. So the categorisation of the
types of referrals related directly to the Children
Act.
The sources of referral, the bulk of the referrals, the
categories were general public, the Gardaí, school
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officials, other officials and discovered by Inspector,
they would be the five categories of referral that are
identified in the annual reports. By far the bulk of
the referrals came from the general public.
Q. So that might be somebody dropping a line to an 19
Inspector and saying, "this family seems to be in a bit
of problem or the children appear verminous", or
something like that?
A. That's correct. It would be a neighbour or a concerned
person writing or talking to an Inspector directly. It
would also include -- and the case material on any of
the reports support, would also include self-referrals,
parents approaching the Inspectors themselves. We
don't have -- unfortunately, the annual reports don't
identify that as a specific category. But there is
some research commissioned as part of a PhD that would
have indicated as high as 60% of the cases that were
reviewed by that researcher were self-referrals, people
who approach the Inspector themselves. Of those cases
that resulted in a committal.
Q. Does that appear to indicate that the Society and its 20
Inspectors were viewed well by people as being
trustworthy and not partisan?
A. Well I suppose I can only answer that question by
looking to the modern day Society and saying to you
that any charity or organisation in a position of ours
will judge their credibility, so to speak, with the
public on two issues, the number of referrals you will
receive directly from the public and your fundraised
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income and whether they support you or not. I think in
both of those measures, the annual reports clearly
indicate that -- I mean, you are talking averages 70%
referrals came from the general public. All of our
income, up to 1963, was fundraised income, enough money
to fund right the way through a world war effectively,
to fund 14 Inspectors. I think, but I can't answer
this specifically, that there was public confidence in
the work of the NSPCC/ISPCC.
Q. I think one of the other attributes, we know that 21
between the 1930's and the 1960's the publically
maintained institutions were all run by the religious.
Had the Society any relationship with the religious --
any religious form?
A. Well the patrons of the Society, if you review the
annual reports, the patrons of the Society were --
there was representation from both the Catholic and
Church of Ireland religious, the Archbishop, the
primary of all Ireland in both cases, the President
in -- well, with the founding of the State, became a
patron. But the relationship that appears to emerge
from a review of the material with the industrial
schools and the religious who ran the industrial
schools was primarily to do with the availability of
places for children. There is some evidence of
communication but it is centred around whether there
was places available. There is some communication from
industrial schools indicating that they had places
available. There is also some small amount of
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communication regarding parents seeking the return of
their children or the Department of Education seeking
the return of children to their parents.
Q. Okay. Thank you very much. Could I come back and 22
let's try and take a snapshot of the mid to late 1930's
of the type of cases that the Society was dealing with,
the way in which problems were sought to be solved and
the relationship between that and committal. Now, I
think you have been able to abstract a number of
surviving cases which I am not actually going to invite
you to tell us much about, but what in the 1930's
appeared to be the primary difficulties which caused
the NSPCC Inspector to call, as it were?
A. Well I think the source of information, as you quite
rightly point out, some available case material on the
annual reports. But I think -- and it is very
difficult to make an exact judgment about the dynamics
within a case, but I think that neglect -- what was
categorised as neglect appeared to be the single
biggest factor resulting in referrals and subsequently,
it would appear, committals. I think that it is clear
that the circumstances in which the families lived in
that time were extremely difficult.
Q. Would you like to say something about what housing 23
appears to be?
A. Housing, in some of the cases the housing was described
as filthy, squalid. There is reference in the case
files to no proper sanitary conditions. Many children
and parents living in very small accommodation. Some
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of the descriptions also -- well, employment was a huge
issue. The number of children and trying to feed them.
I mean, there is number of references through the
annual reports and cases regarding sort of -- in one
case -- in one annual report it talks about the poverty
line and the NSPCC are arguing that there is no formal
poverty line but arguing that the amount of money that
people are living on is simply too low to feed.
Q. For instance, if we are to go back and you are talking 24
about neglect, I think what the reports indicate, which
is obviously what the Inspector thought, it could be as
simple as just dirt and verminous hair, insufficient
bedding, large number of people living in very small
amounts of accommodation, perhaps six to ten people in
one room, children of all sexes and adults in the same
bed and the like?
A. That's correct.
Q. That's not untypical. That's also in rural and also in 25
some of the towns?
A. That's correct and in Dublin city itself and in Cork.
Q. One of the ways that the Inspectors were asked to 26
intervene was there to try and make application to the
local authorities for rehousing, the provision from the
public assistance officer of clean bedding or the
sterilisation of bedding that was there, procuring
additional clothing, that sort of stuff?
A. Yes, that's correct. It would appear from the annual
reports and case files that the Inspector conducted
their business very much as the Inspectors directly
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would have determined. It is very clear from that and
from the annual reports that they were obliged to make
every attempt to support the family, to persuade either
through information support or warnings, the parents to
take their responsibilities to care for their children
seriously. It is mentioned in the directory that any
Inspector who simply seeks a prosecution of a family is
liable for dismissal, for example.
So, I think it is best to say that the Inspectors
appeared to focus on practical support. It wasn't
about providing counselling or social work, as we
understand it today. It would be very much about
trying to organise clothes, perhaps in some cases
organise a job, certainly medical care for children, in
some cases housing. But it is clearly practical
support and also providing the parents with clear
indication of what would be expected.
Q. In many of these cases it may be parents who were, in a 27
sense, a bit adrift and the Inspector could be an
interface with applying to the local clinic for some
medical assistance or local GP or to the public
assistance officer or to the housing authority, if any.
Those sort of things were things that classically
seemed to have been done by the Cruelty Man, as he was
known; isn't that right?
A. That's correct. I understand that the Inspectors were
known in some areas in the country as the Cruelty Man.
But, yes, I mean, I think one of the things that comes
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clearly from the -- sorry, I should probably point out
that the annual reports contain case examples, so
although we might not have the actual case material
they have case examples. The combination of factors is
striking. I think very often -- if I can find the
reference. I mean, for example, the directory would
talk about looking at evidence, things like is the man
and woman earning any money? What would they earn if
they were working? Does the man -- what does the man
allow the woman for housekeeping? What rent are they
paying? So I think there was an assessment of their
means. But alongside that a lot of the cases talk
about dirty children, dirty conditions, alcoholism,
abandonment by fathers and then there would be a
separate range of cases that deal with unmarried
mothers and what they term as illegitimate children.
Q. Yes. Before we come to that, just looking at the issue 28
of, to use the modern phrase, what services were
available to people who were being visited by the
Cruelty Man, this is obviously before even an incipient
social welfare State is there, who else apart from the
Cruelty Man might be liable to call on a family in
terrible difficulties, I'm talking about the 1930's and
1940's?
A. I wouldn't certainly be as knowledgeable as others
would be in that area. I mean, from the case files, I
think, there certainly would be other people that would
have been involved with families, either through the
Inspector getting them involved or they would have
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already been involved.
Q. Well you could have had the Vincent dePaul or the 29
Legion of Mary perhaps on the voluntary side?
A. The Vincent dePaul would arise in some of the annual
reports that we reviewed. The Legion of Mary didn't.
Medical services would be important, housing
authorities or housing officers. The corporations and
Councils appeared to have had the responsibility for
caring for children before the establishment of the
health boards, they would appear to have been the
authority that would have decided on whatever relief,
whether that be poor relief or social services relief,
that the families might have been eligible for. The
ISPCC/NSPCC had a clothing branch which was also
involved. I think they would be primarily the others
that come up from the case files.
Q. Just looking at the economic circumstance from the late 30
1930's let's say, if your reports would indicate
roughly what appeared to be the income of the family,
what the father, because that was usually the case, was
earning, what the rent was, any other outgoings, in the
case of unemployment, I think, it would indicate what
he would be getting on unemployment assistance if he
was eligible, if not eligible what he might be getting
on public assistance, if he got it; isn't that right?
A. That's right. The assessments of the families were
very practical assessments.
Q. Of course one of the difficulties was that the public 31
assistance was discretionary and it seems that in a
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number of the cases looked at by the Inspectors there
may have been a refusal to actually grant public
assistance and there may have been intervention to try
and secure that as a very small amount of money towards
the family income?
A. That's correct. A number of the annual reports raise
the issue of the lack of -- the low rate of public
assistance, whether it be the poor, I am not sure the
actual term, the poor relief and social services
relief. One of the annual reports identifies -- gives
a very strong argument for the fact that it costs more
to place a child in an industrial school than it would
if they increased the social services relief. I think
that relates to the 1940's.
Q. Then I think the children's allowance came in during 32
the war and that was, I think, the first, as it were,
flat rate payment to a family, isn't that right, of a
modest amount, but it was the first?
A. I am afraid I can't answer that question, I'm not sure.
Q. But the Society, I think, ever year in its report did a 33
number of things. Firstly, it gave a case example so
that people outside of the system, as it were, could
appreciate the levels of poverty and difficulty for
people in the country; secondly, it indicated what
actions it had taken; isn't that right?
A. That's correct. If you look through the annual reports
there was a section that effectively, as you quite
rightly say, identified specific concerns that had
arisen that year, mainly with policy issues. 1935/36
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they talk about mentally defective children, epileptic
children and children in overcrowded housing, for
example. It would seem from the annual reports that
they were lobbying and campaigning on these issues
because there are some examples where they identify
that a change has occurred and that the Society had, in
some level, instigated or certainly had influenced that
change. In 1937/38 they talk about the home assistance
being inadequate, they talk about juvenile delinquency.
In 1938/39 they talk about bad housing and slums and
inadequate poor relief and begging. There is lots of
examples through the annual reports of, I think, what
would be deemed in this day and age to be considered
campaigning and lobbying for social change.
Q. If we were to try and do a breakdown of the cases where 34
the Cruelty Man called and what might happen, I mean,
firstly, what was the main aim of the Society when the
Cruelty Man called, what was the ideal situation to
happen after he called?
A. Again the directory and the annual reports appear to be
at pains to emphasise the fact that the role of the
Inspector is to ensure that change occurs for the
child, that the parents are either supported or warned
to make change for the child so that the child is
adequately cared for and protected. That's
re-emphasised right the way through the reports. I
think that the next step was to try and obtain
practical support for the family.
Q. Okay. 35
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A. Again to emphasise that that tended to be very
practical, whether that be housing, or a job, or
clothing or medical assistance. Again, there is
examples of how that has happened through the case
examples of getting the child to the doctor, insisting
that the child be taken to the hospital. There is one
case example that we gave in our statement of a family
with a child with cleft palate and the work that was
done by the Inspector to ensure that the child was
cared for medically.
They also engaged in what they called supervision
visits and the directory clearly identified how those
supervision visits should be conducted. It says they
must be conducted, they were obliged to keep reports of
the work they did. If there wasn't change and they
felt there was no other option then they would move to
look at alternative care for the child, it would
appear, and that's when the issue of committal would
have arisen.
Q. Just before you come to that, I also think there was a 36
number of other functions because it was originally the
National Society, there were clearly branches in the
United Kingdom and I think the records indicate, and in
fact the Commission has also seen in private session,
aspects where occasionally one or other parent has gone
to England, particularly in the case of the father, if
working and their attempts were to find him if there
had been some slow down or abandonment of sending money
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back?
A. That's correct. There are a number of case examples,
in fact in one case it is to America, and the network
that the Society had was that they would contact the
Inspector in Leicester or Liverpool or London who would
look up the father and remind -- the wording I think
they used, is remind him of his responsibilities.
There is one particular case where the -- I think the
individual is in the army and the army agreed to hold
back his pay. So, yes, there was networking where
other NSPCC Inspectors to attempt to ensure that
fathers who had absconded, their responsibilities would
have been held to account, so to speak.
Q. Is it possible to say what sort of proportion of cases 37
might attract prosecution of either or both parent, in
the very crudest sense? I think at page 10 of
your...(INTERJECTION)?
A. Yes, sorry for the delay. In 1956/57 annual report it
identifies that 1.3% of the cases referred were the
subject of proceedings.
Q. Now those proceedings could be of either variety, is 38
that right, of either committal or prosecution?
A. Yes, I suppose what we can't be sure of is that all
children who were committed to industrial schools were
committed through the courts, but it would appear
strongly through the annual reports that -- certainly
the directory clearly identifies that they have to have
been committed through the courts. So, yes,
proceedings could have been prosecution of the parents
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or committal to an industrial school. But the
statistics for -- we looked as seven regions between
pre-1956, dating back to the 1930's. For example, in
Cork only 2.56% of the referrals were subject to
proceedings; in Dublin 1.95%; in Clonmel 1.85%; the
highest was Kerry, 4.6%. So that those are the sort of
percentages that are being presented all the time. The
Maynooth research specifically was looking at
committals and only came up with 20%, but that isn't
supported by the rest of the annual reports that are
all indicating very low levels of prosecution.
Q. So prosecution would be essentially of the parents and 39
inviting some criminal finding against them?
A. Or proceedings, I suppose -- yes, and also committal of
children to the industrial schools.
Q. On the question of committal, in the 1940's the Society 40
seems to have been at pains to indicate whether this
was the first resort or the last resort, could you tell
us a bit about that, please?
A. Yes, there is some very strong quotations, I think, we
mention them in our statement and...(INTERJECTION).
Q. If you want to just refer to that.41
A. Okay.
Q. It seems to have been a very live issue in the 1940's, 42
is there any historical indication as to why it should
be so specifically mentioned in the 1940's?
A. Again, it is very difficult to know, but I think one of
the things that emerge from the annual reports, and I
have to say I am simply giving my opinion on this,
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there is evidence in one of the annual reports in the
1940's that there was concern about the levels of
neglect and I think in the context it was happening in
the world and in Ireland there was many economic
factors perhaps influencing how children were cared
for. But there would also seem to have been a need to
state clearly by the Society that they were not just
about committing children to industrial schools. I am
speculating but that would appear to be the case.
Q. In 1947, in one of the statements anyway? 43
A. There is one in the 1948/49. If I could take a minute,
I could find it here.
Q. Yes, that's fine. 44
A. Thank you. It is saying:
"During the year we have had to arrange for the placing of a large number of children in industrial schools chiefly because their parents were unable to maintain them, but in some cases because their home conditions were so undesirable as to make it necessary to remove them, there is no doubt that in these schools they received care and attention and a sound education and are brought up to be useful members of the community.
Nevertheless, however, grateful we may be for the devoted work of the Orders which conduct these schools, it must be recognised that the children are to a large extent deprived of home influences and it would be much better if we could avoid sending them to such institutions.
If their own homes are impossible, good foster homes would give them a healthier and happier introduction to life. It is, however, seldom possible to find such homes in the case presented to the Society.
There is another aspect of the careers
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of such children which calls for consideration, besides those committed through no fault of their own or even of their parent, there are others who find their way to industrial schools through the causes of grounds of some form of juvenile delinquency, even if it is only such unruliness as failure to attend the ordinary primary schools."
I don't know if you want me to continue with that?
Q. No, just pause there. It is clear that there is some 45
social feeling that there was a taint on children who
had to be committed because of difficulties at home and
that, in some sense, they were been tarred with
juvenile delinquency or delinquency of some sort?
A. That's correct. The paragraph goes on to talk about
that and effectively, in my own words, it would
indicate that they are worried about the label that
people would carry and how that would impact on their
later lives and that is clearly coming out of the rest
of that paragraph. I think the other interesting thing
about this, if you could bear with me.
Q. Yes, please do?46
A. They say here, this is in 1948/49:
"The whole question of the treatment of deprived children in this country calls for investigation, such as it has received recently in England".
Q. That's probably the Curtis Report or something? 47
A. I am afraid I don't know. I think in 1948 they were
clearly saying that there was a need to review it and
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they have identified. I think they also have there:
"Other aspects also the industrial school child which wouldn't pay attention."
Then they talk about the labelling component of that.
Q. That's right, aftercare? 48
A. Yes.
Q. Also one of the other difficulties that the Society 49
points out is that one of the difficulties, I suppose
essentially for the boys, is that the trade unions
appeared to have a hold on entry to trades, that's in
fact, what's mentioned in the report?
A. Yes, that's correct, and I think the difficulty for any
of the children who were committed to industrial
schools to even enter a trade, I think that's clear
coming from that.
Q. As I say, there is also criticism of aftercare and the 50
affording of secondary education, is that correct, to
children?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can I just pause there and just bring you on. You 51
noted also that, I think, in 1953 and 1954, against the
background of a criticism that maybe the Society were
too keen on committing children, the Society again
addressed its vision. I wonder if you would just
indicate to us what it was that the Society said in
this, refers to what is called:
"A mistaken impression in the minds of many people who regard the committal of children to industrial schools as a sovereign remedy for unhappiness or
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unsuitable conditions in the home."
A. That's correct. The 1953/54 report actually refers
also to the constitution, if my memory serves me right.
Q. It does, that the family is the natural and primary 52
educator of the children?
A. That's correct. I think it says: "Home or no home",
is the heading on the paragraph. It goes on to read:
"Perhaps the greatest of the rights of the child which we are continually fighting to maintain is the right to a secure and happy home with its family. In this we follow the provision of the constitution of the country which may be quoted here."
And it quotes the constitution. It goes on to say:
It is a clear working rule in all our cases where the question of committal arises that every effort must be made to find some other solution. A committal is only sought or advised where there is no other way out."
Q. Can I just pause to ask you this: Could an Inspector 53
off his own bat, or her own bat, cause the committal of
a child?
A. No, the directory identifies the process which the
Inspector had to follow. Their central office needed
to be informed of any intention to seek a committal of
a child. Evidence would have to have been, obviously,
presented to the courts and the courts would make the
final decision. I think the -- alongside that, the
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Inspector could not contact central office unless he
had talked to the honorary secretary of the branch, so
the process, he or she would have reported to the
honorary secretary of their branch and would have
informed the central office. So there is provision for
an emergency but I think where you had the majority of
committals, unless there was an exceptional situation,
would have had to have been processed through central
office.
Q. Can I ask you does that mean that the central office 54
had to consent or did they just have to be informed of
the attention to inspect?
A. I think it is consent. I would have to just check the
wording exactly but my memory is it is consent.
Q. What do you think that says about the work of the 55
Society and its view as to where committal fell in the
range of child care options, to use a modern phase?
A. My impression read the annual report, even from the
very founding of the organisation, where you have back
to 1908 statements like "we are not there to punish
parents, we are there to help take the responsibility.
Our primary focus is the protection and the prevention
of cruelty". I mean those statements are clearly made
right the way through the annual reports. I feel that
based on that information it would be that committal
was a last resort for Inspector. Sorry, not a last
resort, it would be one of the last resorts. I think
one of the annual reports identifies that there were
worse, in parent's eyes certainly and in the eyes' of
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the Inspectors, there was worse options.
Q. Like? 56
A. Well the work houses are talked about in the 30's and
some indication that parents were asking the Inspector
to get their children into industrial schools because
otherwise they would end up in work houses. There is
also the issue of infant mortality.
Q. I will come back to that in a second. 57
A. Okay.
Q. While we are on the subject of committal -- sorry, can 58
I just say I think that phrase in the 1953/54 report
was, "a poor home they say is better than no home".
"It is a clear working rule in all cases where a question of committal arises that every effort must be made to find some other solution and committal is only sought or advised where there is no other way out."
I think that is it?
A. That's right, yes.
Q. I think, as part of the historical aspect, 250 case 59
files were examined by some research people, this is
the Maynooth NUI research. I think they were able to
elicit, although this may not be representative, 20%
resulted in the committal of children?
A. That is correct. From a sample of 250 cases I think.
Q. Firstly, we indicate that that could not be a 60
representative sample because we know from the rest of
the figures that it is somewhere between one and three
or four percent result in proceedings?
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A. That's correct. Just to put this piece of research in
context, it was conducted as part of a Ph.D project and
the researcher was seeking out cases where it was
likely that there would have been committals. I think
she has identified that in her research, that there was
a selective sample, because she was interested in
looking at the reasons behind committal.
Q. So it is unlikely they are going to be looking at what 61
I am going to call minor cases or the cases that only
had a passing reference?
A. That's correct. I think she points that out in her --
it is actually the introduction to her Ph.D as opposed
to the Ph.D. So it would certainly be a skewed sample
I think.
Q. What it does do is it appears to look at 50 committal 62
cases in which there was some material from the
Society. That's the way I would look at it.
A. (WITNESS NODS)
Q. Okay. It would appear that in 39 of those 50 cases the 63
parents initiated contact with the ISPCC?
A. That's correct.
Q. That was with a view to having their children 64
committed?
A. That's correct.
Q. Now that may not be representative and these therefore 65
may be the worst cases. Is it possible to try and work
out how many parents, surviving parents, consented to
the Orders or didn't consent? Have we any insight into
that?
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A. Unfortunately not from the records we have we don't. I
mean I suppose one indication is that Maynooth report
and there are some case examples through the research
we did indicating mothers of illegitimate children --
they were termed illegitimate children -- seeking a
committal. But we don't have anyway of really identify
the percentages per se.
Q. I may be wrong and I may just have extracted some other 66
figure, but I have somehow in my mind that possibly
two-thirds of parents, and that may include mothers of
illegitimate children, may have consented, does that
ring a bell with you?
A. Well I think that may be the Maynooth report, unless I
have forgotten something in the material. I know that
in our statement that we did identify that a
significant percentage of the general referrals, the
referrals from the public were from parents. But I
don't think we actually identified a specific
percentage. I can look at the material later on and
just review that.
Q. That's all right. Just coming back to the issue of 67
committal and before a child was committed to an
industrial school. Could we first look at did the
Inspector have any contact with the industrial school
to find out was there a place available, suitability
and all that sort of stuff?
Q. THE CHAIRPERSON: Could I just clarify 68
something, Mr. Gageby.
Mr. Gilligan, when you say that a significant
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percentage does that mean that some parent -- that the
initial contact might be "we're in trouble, we are in
difficulty", or whatever it is to the Inspector and the
Inspector comes along? Is that what you mean by saying
that? When you said a significant percentage of
referrals, that's the initial contact, "we would like
some help from the Society"?
A. That's correct, Judge. The initial contact would be --
the annual reports define referrals or the initial
contact in that category and the biggest single
category was the general public and within that were
the parents themselves. So, yes, that would be the
initial contact.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: I think just to assist, in 69
the research -- which
obviously is more skewed towards committal as a fair
average -- I think it was noted at page 7 of that
research that in 39 of these cases, and this is the
80%:
"Parents initiated contact with the ISPCC for the express purpose of having their children committed."
THE CHAIRPERSON: 39 of the 50 cases?
MR. GAGEBY: 39 of the 50 cases. 80%,
yes.
Q. MR. LOWE: In using the term "parents" 70
that obscures that it might
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often be a parent, the other parent having died or gone
somewhere else.
A. That report also identifies that 18 of those cases
involved what were termed illegitimate children, where
you had one parent. The issue of the one parent with
an illegitimate child was a big issue because a parent
couldn't work if they had a child and the families
often didn't want to or had issues around that parent
returning home with a baby. That is, again, identified
right the way through the annual reports as a big
issue.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: We will come back to that. 71
Just looking around the
process of committal, I think it does appear that
Inspector, if he had received the sanction to proceed
with committal, would make the application himself to
the courts for committal; isn't that right?
A. That's correct. The material would also suggest that
they would assess, identify a location.
Q. A school? 72
A. A school, yes. There are some indications that they
sought to identify schools near the homes of the
families. But I think availability was probably the
key factor in their decision to place a child.
Q. I mean looking at that, because this is something that 73
has come up with the Commission, for instance some
children from Dublin might wonder why they ended up in
West Connaught.
A. Uh-huh.
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Q. I mean one assumption, and it is probably a reasonable 74
one, is that there simply wasn't accommodation in
Dublin if Dublin was the more desirable place?
A. Yes, that would appear to be from the cases that we
have. From the case examples that we have it would
appear that there were attempts to keep the children
close. But I think availability of placements would
appear to be the main driving force behind the
decision.
Q. However, there may have been one circumstance in which 75
that wouldn't have been perhaps be so much the fore.
In the case of an illegitimate child, where the mother
was effectively surrendering all relationship with the
child, and perhaps the mother's family also, perhaps
similar considerations didn't apply. I am just
throwing it out to see if that would appear to be one
factor that might have operated. Is there any indicate
of that?
A. I am afraid I don't. There is nothing from the case
files or the annual reports that would indicate that.
Q. It is just that the Commission has gone through a 76
number of private hearings and it is sometimes
difficult to divine why children, particularly from
Dublin, would have gone somewhere else. I can just
think of examples where neither or both might apply.
Anyway. What sort of knowledge did the Inspectors have
of the industrial schools is it possible to glean from
the papers, or of particular industrial schools?
A. It would appear from -- we have not come across any
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information that would indicate that Inspectors were
visiting industrial schools or had any role in that
regard. There is communication regarding individual
children, there is evidence of communication from
industrial schools where there is brief reports given
of the progress of children. So certainly based on
what we have done for this statement it would appear
that the relationship would be, one, to find out if
there was a place.
Q. Yes. That would be with a view to an Inspector saying 77
I am hoping to move an application next week, can you
accommodate a child of two or a boy of two or a girl of
three, or whatever?
A. That's correct. Secondly, where a residential facility
may contact the Inspector and say we have a place, so
that you are aware of that. Thirdly, where there would
be some communication, and I am not sure why,
indicating the progress of a particular child.
Fourthly, where there may have been a move to have a
child returned to their parents.
Q. That's a situation where the parents might apply to the 78
Minister for the release of their child?
A. That's correct.
Q. That seems to have occasionally generated 79
correspondence, is that right?
A. Yes. I mean there is certainly -- well, there is a
couple of files where, I think one or two files, where
there is Inspectors being asked to review the family
with a view to a child being returned. There is
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certainly a comment in one of the annual reports in the
1950's which would suggest that the Department of
Education would have asked the Inspectors of their view
in regards to children returning to families. But that
same comment in the annual report says that their views
were being ignored. It appears that there was an issue
regarding the Department wanting to return children to
a family and the Inspector was reluctant.
There is also another case file where the child does
not want to return home and the parents are seeking
their return and the residential institution is writing
to the Inspector saying -- you know, looking for the
Inspector's support to try and protect the child from
having to return home. But that would be the nature of
the communication it would appear from the material we
have reviewed.
Q. We have heard some evidence that in one of the western 80
industrial schools the Inspector Mr. Egan occasionally
did call to see his charges. There is nothing to
indicate that in the extant papers?
A. No, I am afraid there isn't.
Q. Just going back to the court process. These were all, 81
of course, conducted in front of justices of the
District Court, isn't that right? I think the process
involved usually of put the County Council on notice of
the application since they would have some financial
responsibility. I think usually County Council either
wrote in a letter saying they have no objection, or
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they sent somebody along to say they have no objection,
or something like that?
A. I think that would appear to be the case, yes.
Q. Is it possible to divine what sort of information was 82
laid before the Justice to cause them to make an Order
sending a child away?
A. In reviewing the material we didn't come across much in
terms of what might have been presented as evidence.
But the directory seems to identify very clearly what
sort of evidence is needed. They talk about the need
for -- one of the paragraphs in the directory talks
about hints on evidence, generally things like avoiding
general statements, completeness of evidence. It talks
about having to have medical reports and the directory
identifies the type of medical report that a doctor
should fill out vis-a-vis neglect, assault, disease,
medical aid. It talks about, you know, the forms of
reports that the Inspector is expected to develop. The
categories like; what was done? Who did it to whom?
Those sort of categorisations of gathering material.
It would appear that they are driven by adherence to
the 1908 Children's Act and also adherence -- and I
think it mentions in the directory that Inspectors
should remember that they may have to present that to
the courts. But we don't have any specific files that
talk about that actual process.
Q. There is no stenographic note or anything like that? 83
A. No.
Q. Presumably this was done orally, on whatever day was 84
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set aside?
A. Certainly there is clear statements in the directory
and in some of the case files that the Inspector did
give oral evidence. But there would appear also to
have been reports presented the courts. We don't have
any of those.
Q. Obviously, there were other cases which didn't 85
necessarily come that route, where there might have
been Garda evidence in some of the more extreme cases?
A. Yeah, there is some distinction in the annual reports,
not in all of them, where the Inspector is asked to
give evidence because the prosecution is being taken by
somebody else. So they are a witness to a Garda
perhaps taking a court case.
Q. Presumably, part of the decision of the District 86
Justice might have been influenced by the extent to
which the parent or parents were heard, or were heard
to object?
A. Yes, it would appear that the parents were obliged to
attend court in almost all cases, the parent or
parents. Certainly some of the case files would
indicate that the Justice asked the parents to explain
their behaviour. It is very hard to tell what weight
was give to be what evidence from our case files.
Q. Presumably, looking at it from this remove, the good 87
name of the Society was probably part of the reasons
which would cause a District Justice to commit, in the
sense that if he took the view that the Society was at
least scrupulous and wasn't likely to try and remove
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children unwontedly or against their own interests?
A. I think -- well I can't answer that question directly
but I think that the NSPCC/ISPCC were seen to have
expertise in the area of child protection. They were
the only child protective organisation -- and that's
their own words -- in the country, up until the Health
Boards were founded. I think that alongside that it is
reasonable to suggest that they would have gathered
pretty clear evidence. I think the assistance within
the directory of gathering clear evidence -- I mean it
is very clearly stated that -- let me just go back a
bit, if you could bear with me for a second. There is
a section saying facts and their meaning, nothing is to
be assumed by an Inspector but that the persons are
innocent. Complaints are not charges. How you conduct
inquiries. The nature of a complaint. What the
Inspector found. The reason for concern. The age or
probable age of the person. Their means, as I
discussed earlier. What they would be earning if they
were working. So there is clear categories. It is
clear in the directory that they need to be specific in
the information. I would assume that that's because it
was important that they would have had that specific
evidence if, and I think it is stated, if this got as
far as the courts.
I suppose I'm at pains to point out that I don't
believe this was the Inspector simply saying I think
these children need to be committed. I think there was
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a process, there was evidence presented. But, yes, I
would agree that the NSPCC/ISPCC would have been viewed
as having an authority in this area.
Q. And presumably if the parents were consenting that 88
would also be quite an important factor?
A. Yes.
Q. In fact I notice on page 30 of the research which you 89
conducted, which says:
"On the grounds of committal on the cases examined by the researchers..."
And that is of course the small amount and it is not
representative.
"forty-one..."
That's of the 80 or so.
"41, or 66% of children committed to industrial schools were committed at the request of their parents."
A. Yes, that is correct.
Q. Now that's only of a very small amount, it may not be 90
representative?
A. I think there is also some information in the annual
reports of at one stage the NSPCC are identifying in
the 30's the difficulty of getting consent from a
parent who has absconded or is in prison. They were
arguing that the legislation should be reviewed in that
context. For me that would be indicating that consent
was a route that was taken.
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Q. That may partially have been solved, partially, under 91
the 1941 Act which gave an amendment which I think made
it easier to commit children found destitute but at
home and with a parent or parents?
A. Well, obviously I am not...(INTERJECTION)
Q. I am not trying to draw you into anything. 92
A. The annual reports also indicate at some later stage
that parts of the 1941 Act were found to be
unconstitutional and that seemed to present a
difficulty for the NSPCC.
Q. As a proportion, therefore, of children who were 93
committed to industrial schools under the Children's
Act, is it right to say that it would appear that the
ISPCC was probably one of the main, as a percentage
wise, was probably one of the main movers in that?
A. I don't know the answers to that question. We don't
have any statistics available to us with the numbers
committed to industrial schools.
Q. I appreciate that. 94
A. But I think if we were the only child protection --
child protective organisation then I think it is
reasonable to suspect that we certainly would have
committed a significant number to the industrial
schools. But I really have no idea about the overall
percentage.
Q. Because it is a bit unlikely that the Gardaí would take 95
that step per se, I mean they might have been the
vehicle by which a case came to the attention of the
courts, but.
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A. Well the juvenile delinquency side -- I am sorry, I am
using that term because that's the term they used in
the directory. But I think there was the other way,
which was if a child was viewed to have committed a
crime. In fact I think the directory indicates that
the Inspector has no role to play in the court
proceedings with regard to juvenile delinquency. There
is another reference to juvenile delinquency in one of
the annual reports that identifies that the causes are
being ignored, and it identifies lack of parental
involvement and poverty or social problems. But I
think it would appear that the Society didn't have a
role to play in -- I think those children were most
likely prosecuted through the Criminal Justice system.
Q. So effectively if delinquency is put outside and more 96
overt cruelty, I mean the Society is more likely to
have been moving for a committal where there wasn't
another solution and it is really sort of destitution
and difficulties at home?
A. Yes, and I think that is supported by the percentages.
The percentages are extremely low of the overall
referral to the Society.
Q. Would it be helpful to maybe look at any particular 97
year in which you have an annual report because it
usually tabulates how many places there are,
prosecutions. Just take any year that you think is
helpful, maybe between the 30's and the 60's just to
give us a flavour of the class of action that was
taken?
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A. I think I probably have given these already, but I have
the percentages, the overall percentages from 1930 to
1956. Sorry, after 1956/57 they dropped in the annual
reports reporting on proceedings and I suspect, because
in that year it was 1.3% of all contacts, of the
referrals contacts only 1.3% were subject to
proceedings.
Q. I am looking at something like -- if you could look at 98
page 24 is that of assistance, of your statement? Page
24 of your statement, which is a very helpful table and
it is looking at '56, '62 and '66 and reasons for
referral. "Case law" is, presumably, just the generic,
there is 1425. Ill treatment or assault, 145.
Abandoned, five. Exposure causing to beg, one. Beyond
control, 29. Moral danger, 12. Paid or advice sought
735. Which is 2300 referrals involving about 7500
children, isn't that right?
A. That's correct. That's 1956, from the 1956 annual
report.
Q. I think what you are saying is that you believe that 99
about 1.3% of referrals would result in court
proceedings?
A. That statistic relates to a year just before, I think
1954 perhaps. But, yes, on average, if you take the
averages even they are very low. Yes, 1.6 at that
stage.
Q. All right. Right or wrong, there are some extant 100
statistics, between 1.3 and about 4%, depending. But
that would include both the prosecution of parents for
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neglect, or a parent or whatever, and also a committal;
isn't that right?
A. That is correct.
Q. Okay. One way of looking at that might, and suppose we 101
shouldn't argue about statistics, but that in 1956
there was a very substantial number of children in
industrial schools, and I am going to get guess at
around 5,000, 6,000 or something like that and it could
well be out. Can I just ask you, committals up to the
age of 16 seem to have been normative for quite a
period of time, does the Society have any knowledge of
this?
A. Sorry, could you just repeat that?
Q. Yes. Committals...(INTERJECTION) 102
THE CHAIRPERSON: Appear to be what?
MR. GAGEBY: Normative, normal.
A. Up to the age of 16?
Q. Yes.103
THE CHAIRPERSON: Normal or normative? I am
not sure how normative fits
into this.
MR. GAGEBY: I will say normal then.
A. So it was normal to commit someone up to 16 as it was
for...(INTERJECTION).
Q. Yes. 104
THE CHAIRPERSON: Sorry, the usual thing.
When somebody was committed
it would seem to be that the usual period of detention
was up to age 16.
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A. Yes.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: Except, however, I think 105
there are two things noted.
THE CHAIRPERSON: But that's the question
that you are asking about?
MR. GAGEBY: Yes, and I think the answer
is given.
A. That's correct. It would appear -- there are examples
of case, as I said earlier, where there was movement or
consideration of releasing children back into the care
of their parents. There is also some case examples of
Inspectors believing that it shouldn't be until the age
of 16. But I think the majority of children were
placed until the age of 16.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: There also seems to have 106
been a distinction in 1954,
because there seems to have been some short term
admissions to industrial schools at the behest of the
Archbishop of Dublin where the mothers were receiving
medical treatment for tuberculosis, in which case there
was need for short-term things. Is that reflected in
any of the material which you are au fait with?
A. Yes, one of the issues that, to return to the
campaigning or the raising of policy, one of the issues
that the Society raised was their concern about
children whose parents were sick being placed in
industrial schools.
Q. Just by reason of the fact that there was sickness in 107
the family?
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A. That's correct. They raised it, I think, in two annual
reports. I am not sure what years, if you would just
bear with me for one second.
Q. I think it may be '54 and possibly afterwards. 108
A. Well in 1954 the reference to that is in the annual
report, it refers to the Archbishop of Dublin has
established a facility for mothers and for the children
of mothers who are sick.
Q. Yes. 109
A. But I think it is actually referenced by -- sorry, I
have a memory that it was referenced earlier in an
NSPCC report as an issue. But certainly in the 50's
there was an acknowledgment that, and I think the
Archbishop refers to establishing a home in Merrion
Road or Merrion Square for that.
Q. I want to move on, if I may, to a different area, which 110
is this: What were the alternatives if the Society
were looking at a problem and a problem in a family
what was the alternative if the problem couldn't be
solved within the family by one means or the another
what was the alternative to committal to an industrial
school that was available within the Society that
existed from the 30's to the 60's?
A. Again, I think the case reports and the annual reports
seem to indicate that there was very few alternatives.
I think unless the Inspector along with the other
community supports could organise some practical
support for the family, or unless the parents were able
to, you know, make change in the way that they were
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living there was very little. I think the foster
placement appeared to be primarily, and I am not as au
fait on this as I perhaps should be, but it appeared to
be primarily for very young infants, babies, as opposed
to fostering for older children. Relatives was the
other obvious option. There is some discussion of the
options of having a relative take the care of children.
But there didn't appear be huge other alternatives.
Q. I mean one of the things noted actually earlier is 111
that -- I mean, obviously, one alternative, that's to
say if you have a family with difficulties, is if there
is an extended family who could help?
A. Yes.
Q. But that then raised the economic spectre of how that 112
other person in loco parentis was to be assisted at a
time when there was no money around. I presume there
is some evidence of attempts to try and solve problems
that way?
A. Yes, using extended family, that's correct. I think
though you have identified quite correctly the issues
of the economic climate and the poverty. Many of the
families were living in very poor conditions, as were
their extended families so I think the chances of being
able to resolve the problems by using extended family
were limited. There are some examples in the case
files of somebody in the extended family taking the
care of the children.
Q. Fosterage therefore in a more formal sense, fosterage 113
existed essentially coming from the Poor Law system,
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and we actually heard a bit about that yesterday, I
think it was mainly in terms of children who were
illegitimate, where maybe that in a sense the mother
gave up the child and the infant could be sent to a
nurse to be nursed as an infant and subsequently
fostered out to various families at differing rates of
pay. But was there actually such a system for children
who were coming in who were legitimate, to use the
expression, where the parents were still around? Did
that system exist then?
A. It would appear not from the material that I have read.
I think, again, there is a reference to the need for a
fostering option. The NSPCC/ISPCC identify the need to
develop fostering. But there doesn't appear to be any
evidence on the material that there was a formal
system.
Q. Adoption didn't come in until 1952 and that could only 114
have a limited application, isn't that right, to
illegitimate children or orphaned children?
A. Yes.
Q. So there was a difficulty, legitimate children with 115
surviving parents, albeit parents who weren't
exercising their rights, were less likely to be placed
in a natural home as opposed to an industrial
institution?
A. That is correct. Just on the alternatives, there is
some evidence from the 1930's material of parents
requesting their children to be placed in residential
institutions because of fear that they will end up in
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work houses. I am not sure when the work houses
discontinued, but certainly there is some evidence in
the early 30's of that. I think that may have been an
alternative, if you could consider that. But certainly
that was an issue for some parents.
Q. MR. LOWE: Can I ask you to consider 116
another factor. I was just
looking at the table on page 24 again, number of cases
was 1425 and the number of children 4669, which, if you
allow for the fact that a large number of those would
have been illegitimate and, therefore, not be
(inaudible) family, we are talking about three or four
children from a family being taken into care at once.
That would mean fostering would be a difficult option
to say the least.
A. Yes, I think that is a reality, that many of the cases
talk about number of children. I don't recall many
cases, if any, just being one child. I think that was
an issue. I think in some cases you will find that one
or two children are taken into -- are found places in
school, because it wasn't easy to find places for all
the children in schools.
Q. MR. LOWE: Besides the family it 117
self-limited the options
available?
A. Yes. Yes. And resulted often in the breakup of the
family for that reason.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: Because there was, I 118
suspect particularly when
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children were older than ten, it was quite difficult to
find an institution per se that would accommodate both
sexes.
A. Yes.
Q. Could I just ask you to deal with a couple of other 119
things. There was a system of fosterage, and coming
back to, therefore, the opportunities for care outside
of the industrial school system. There was a system of
fosterage which existed and which historically came
from the Poor Law, this is boarding out and all that
sort of stuff, I think some of the research indicates
that particularly -- can I ask you to turn your mind to
the 1920's and 30's with some astonishing statistics
about the mortality rate of illegitimate children,
which I think is noted to an extent that would horrify
everybody. I think the mortality rate for illegitimate
children was note in the 1920's to be approximately
about 80 times that of legitimate children?
A. Well I suppose the most striking reference for me was
in the 31/32 annual report, which identifies the
mortality rate one in four, compared to one in sixteen
for non-illegitimate children in their categorisation.
If we are to break it down to if you look at the
mortality rate for children not from diseases, which
would suggest that they categorised them as diseases
and other causes, but they are saying that the
mortality rate was 24 per thousand of illegitimate
children compared to 1.3 per thousand of legitimate
children. And that's in the first 14 days. Sorry,
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that's not from diseases, they have also identified
that the first 14 days appear to have been the key
factor in determining if a child died or not and they
identified separation from the mother as an issue. But
the narrative in that annual report, I am afraid I
don't fully understand what they are trying to say.
But there appears to be some suggestion of people who
were a danger to babies or who are trading in babies,
but certainly that we were afraid that the Society was
failing to care for the mothers and illegitimate
babies. That comes up again in later reports. I think
the society are arguing that they need better supports
for mothers and illegitimate babies. But certainly the
mortality rate seems to be a huge factor in that year.
Q. As I understand what the Society was picking up was 120
that firstly there appears on any objective basis to be
an astonishingly different mortally rate for
illegitimate children on any basis?
A. That's correct. I think it goes on to talk about the
fact that some people identify the cause of that as
being the guilt and shame that the mothers feel. But
it then compares the mortality rate with the mortality
rate in Wales, Scotland and England and identifies that
even in comparison to those that Ireland is very high.
I think it says it identified it as a serious issue.
Q. It also notes that, for instance, 66 infants were found 121
dead in 1930.
A. That's right. Abandoned I think. Some of which were
abandoned.
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Q. 66 dead and I think a small number abandoned. That's 122
against the backdrop, obviously, of the difficulty that
there was great social difficulties for women with
illegitimate children and simply with making an
economic provision for their children?
A. Again, the material in regards to this I think is very
stark. I think the first issue that appears to arise
is the issue of the sort of shame that appeared to be
connected with illegitimacy. The difficulty for those
mothers to in some cases return to their own families,
with the baby in particular. There are some case
examples of families saying we need to deal with the
baby, the baby needs to be taken somewhere, the baby
cannot return. I am not sure if that was for economic
factor or for social factors.
The additional difficulty, obviously, was that with a
child the mother was not in a position to work and
that's identified. In the 1939/40 annual report the
NSPCC are identifying the need for nurseries and
special schools, but nurseries in particular for -- it
doesn't say for mothers of illegitimate children but I
think its identified as a support for them. So I think
illegitimacy presented all sorts of difficulties in
terms of both the economic and social problems that are
created.
Q. Yes. A child perhaps is more likely as an illegitimate 123
child to be fostered out. You mentioned the issue of
baby farming or baby selling, which is noted in, I
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think, the 1930 report. I think the suggestion there
is that there was a woman in Dublin who was in the
business of basically buying babies and selling them
on.
A. I mean I just didn't understand the full reference to
what that was about. But I mean there are clear
references, yes, referred to in terms of dragons and
threats. But there are references.
Q. All right, perhaps that's just a bit outside the remit. 124
A. Yes.
Q. In relation to committals, in the sample that was 125
looked at by the researchers, which is the subject of
the NUI Maynooth material, there were 62 children
committed to industrial schools and six of those,
roughly 10%, had been in the care of foster parents who
either proved unsuitable or who no longer wanted to
care for the children. So it seemed that some of the
children who were coming into the industrial school
system had been the subject of fosterage and it hadn't
worked for one reason or another; isn't that right?
A. That's right. And there are some case examples given
in the annual reports of situations where difficulties
would have arisen in the foster placements, often due
to the death of a parent and the surviving parent
believed they couldn't cope anymore and therefore they
requested that the child be fostered. In other cases
there is some reference to payments being made. It
appears that individuals had agreed to pay money to
foster parents to take children.
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Q. As a private arrangement? 126
A. Yeah. And that they had stopped paying and, therefore,
the families had no choice it appears but to have
requested that the foster child be taken off them.
Q. Obviously, part of the foster system was also to ensure 127
that the foster child wasn't treated as an economic
animal, if you understand me, that he was treated
properly.
A. There doesn't appear to be a lot of information around
that in our material, but I understand from other
material that that's the case.
MR. GAGEBY: Sorry, I used a phrase
"economic animal", it means
no disrespect to anyone.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well we feel
disrespected.
MR. GAGEBY: I am accustomed to being
interrupted so I will just
continue.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And we are accustomed to
being abused by you again.
You have no business as describing anybody as an
economic animal.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: I think, Mr. Gilligan, you 128
understand what I was saying?
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Well we understand but we
don't like it.
Q. MR. GAGEBY: Mr. Gilligan, can we go 129
back to one thing. One of
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the worries with boarding out and fosterage was the
danger that some of the children might be used a cheap
labour inside or outside the house?
A. Again, I don't have any expertise or particular
knowledge in this area but I do know that in some cases
that I read there were examples of Inspectors being
involved in situations where a foster child was being
neglected or not being cared for appropriately by the
foster parents.
Q. And at the same time receiving an amount of money from 130
the State?
A. That appears to be the case, yes, that's correct
Q. Just generally then. The ISPCC were effectively the 131
forerunners of social workers, would that be a fair
comment in retrospect?
A. Yes, the Society began to employ social workers I think
in 1968. I hope I have the date correct. That would
have been two, three years before the 1970's, when the
Health Boards were established. Then they began to
employ social workers in the 70's but also gave
Inspectors opportunities to develop their skills and
become social workers. Just one of the points I make
in that regard which is perhaps important, given its
connection to the UK body, and I think I referenced
this earlier, in the 40's there was a statement saying
there should be a review of the way we deal with
children, deprived children as there has been in the
UK. I think that it would be reasonable to speculate
that the practice of the Inspectors in Ireland was
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influenced by the developments in the UK. The UK
developed quicker in terms of its understanding and
ability to deal with child protection than we would
have in Ireland. I think perhaps explains why in 1968
we employed social workers when -- because I think we
were probably looking to the UK, even though we were
not the same organisation I think they would have drawn
off the expertise and knowledge within the UK.
Q. I think it would also explain why in the 40's you were 132
saying even a poor home was better than an institution?
A. Yes. I think we can't dismiss the fact that -- and I
think one of the issues obviously is I think there was
the influence of professional practice and awareness
developing across the water and that would have been
influencing on some level the understanding and the
practice of the Inspectors in Ireland.
Q. Ms. NíRafertaigh reminds me to ask you one thing. You 133
are speaking there of perhaps having a HQ in Britain
and the advances in childcare there might have helped
thinking over here. Does one get any sense from
looking back at the archives and the work of the ISPCC
that there was any great role for the Department of
Education or the people who were sitting around tables
saying how will we advance particular matters? Is
there any feeling like that, and I am talking about
30's to 60's and obviously things changed with Kennedy?
A. We didn't come across any formal materials that would
have indication working groups or communication policy.
But just to go back to the issue; I think annual
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reports in the way that they have outlined the sort of
issues that were of concern to ISPCC/NSPCC it would
appear that they were communicating with somebody about
those issues. Because in two cases, for example, there
is a reference made in the 40's to female escorts for
children being brought to industrial schools. And it
would appear from the reference the NSPCC are saying in
an annual report that they had sought this and that it
had now been agreed. The second reference they talk
about that they are very happy to see that the courts
are going to treat children differently and deal with
them in private so that there wouldn't be an atmosphere
of -- a criminal atmosphere is what they describe it
as. It would appear that they may have had some
involvement in seeking that change in the courts. So I
would suspect that it may be that the annual reports
were their way of doing that. But there would appear
to have been some discussion around the issues but we
don't have any information. Unfortunately, we weren't
able to archive the administrative material that we
have, we just simply hadn't the resources at the time.
We did archive the case materials. So perhaps there is
some material regarding that but we didn't come across
any, even though the researchers did look for some
information in that regard.
MR. GAGEBY: Thank you very much.
END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. GILLIGAN BY MR. GAGEBY
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THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes, Mr. McGrath.
MR. GILLIGAN WAS THEN EXAMINED, AS FOLLOWS, BY MR.
McGRATH:
Q. MR. McGRATH: Mr. Gilligan, my name is 134
David McGrath, Senior
Counsel. I appear, again, as amicus curiae to the
Commission but my background would be that I appeared
for many of the complainants that have gone before to
tell their stories, the people who were in the
institutions. I would have represented many of them
also elsewhere.
I just want to start really if I can at page 6 of the
report, the findings from the ISPCC records. It is
really just a preliminary point just to understand
where many of the people that I would have dealt with,
where they had come from. On page 6 of the report is
the mention of the word the "Cruelty Men", or "Cruelty
Inspectors". The word "Cruelty Men", this morning the
mention of it did provoke a reaction from many of the
people here. I think you can take it that whilst the
Inspectors have from your records on many occasions
been involved in situations where we have solved
problems without sending children to schools and that,
that certainly the perception of most of the people I
would deal with the word "Cruelty Man" is the person
who is responsible for what happened to them
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thereafter. From their point of view the Inspectors
are looked at with a rather jaundiced eye from that
point of view.
It would appear from reading through the various
reports and records and things that the Society itself
was, in fact, aware of the fact that there was a
perception out there that the Cruelty Man put children
away or locked them up and it does appear, certainly in
some of the annual reports, that this is a view and it
is a view that you would like to try and do away with.
Am I right in that?
A. Yes. I think that is fair to say. I think I have
referenced it in a number of reports. In the 30's not
so much perhaps. Certainly from the initiation of the
Society there was clear indication of the need to not
punish and support. I think the directory says that.
But, yes, the annual reports appear to have been
identifying what would have been a perception and
trying to ensure that people change that perception.
But that's right back to the 40's and 50's so I think
they were working hard to ensure that that wasn't the
case.
Q. With regard to the way that children came to the 135
attention of the Society you have set out the various
ways that this might happen. It would certainly appear
that where a family approached itself it may approach
because it just needed assistance or help in sorting
out a problem, not with a view to having the children
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being taken into care. Or a family might approach on
the basis that they did for some particular reason at
that time want their children taken into care at that
particular time. In those circumstances, as I
understand it, looking at the various records that you
have produced and the various instances and the various
case histories, it would appear from those that there
were successes where parents were persuaded out of it.
There were also successes in terms of where the ISPCC
was able to help families and ensure that whatever
problem that was there was solved. But it would also
appear that there were occasions when they did put
people into care?
A. That's correct.
Q. In those terms, as I understand the situation, there 136
seems to be a suggestion that the Inspectors would put
children, if possible, into a local school or some
school that they were familiar with, that that seems to
be the evidence that's coming across from yourself and
from --
A. Yes, I think that's based on the statements in the
annual reports that families should be kept together.
I think there is also evidence in some of the case
files, statements like "the father will be able to
visit regularly". I think that's where we are taking
that from. But there is no clear policy on that
anywhere, there is no statement of that policy.
Q. Can you help the Commission in this regard: When it is 137
described that an Inspector is familiar with a school
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how does that come about if he never visits that
particular school, because that seems to be the
situation?
A. Can I just clarify that I don't think I said that they
never visited the school. I am saying that we have not
come across any material that indicated that they
visited the school. But I don't know the answer to
that question. But I think familiar -- I don't know
what the term familiar might refer to but I think in
many cases it is simply saying they are aware of the
fact that it is there and they have had communication,
perhaps, with the residential manager. I don't know.
Q. When I was reading the papers last night there is some 138
mention somewhere in the papers of an Inspector in
Clonmel. Now, the obvious school for him to put any
boy in would have been Ferryhouse. We know, and it has
been accepted by the Rosminian's, that the regime in
Ferryhouse was a brutal regime. That's their own words
to describe it, never mind how I or how the people who
were students there or pupils there would describe it.
If that is so and an Inspector was familiar with the
school, how or why wouldn't he know what was happening
within the school?
A. Again, you can appreciate that I can only answer that
question based on the available information to me. I
think this comes back to perhaps one of the core issues
and that is, you know, what would an Inspector have
known or not known about a particular school and what
was going on in the school? The research we conducted
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for the preparation of this statement was conducted by
two independent consultants. We did not come across
any material that would have indicated that Inspectors
knew about brutal regimes in any school. Based on the
sort of annual reports and then issues being raised in
annual reports it would be somewhat surprising if
the...(INTERJECTION)
THE CHAIRPERSON: Just to be accurate,
Fr. O'Reilly did not accept
that the regime in Ferryhouse was brutal. He accepted
that there was brutality there but he wouldn't agree
that it was a brutal regime. I mean insofar as it is
of any importance, it is a matter of accuracy, you are
quoting the Rosminian's and you are not getting it
right Mr. McGrath.
MR. McGRATH: If I may differ there,
Chairman. It was put to
him that the regime was brutal, he didn't accept it.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Correct.
MR. McGRATH: Then a quote was given to
him from a former
Provincial of the Rosminian's who said that the regime
was brutal and he then said, yes, it was brutal. My
memory is that he accepted it, but.
THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. He accepted
that the punishment was
brutal. Anyway, Fr. O'Reilly was asked a specific
question, all I am telling you is that it is a matter
of accuracy, I mean if you are going to quote him my
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recollection is that that's not correct, because he
specifically said no, I accept -- he may be right or he
may be wrong about it, I mean I'm not getting into
that, Mr. McGrath. But just in fairness to what people
said, and you may well be right that on some other
occasion if we put the bits together the jigsaw points
in another way. You may well be right, I am not even
saying that.
MR. McGRATH: It all took place at the
very end of his evidence.
THE CHAIRPERSON: That's true. Why don't you
say, look, he agreed that
the regime was...(INTERJECTION)
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Broken.
MR. McGRATH: Sorry Chairman, I was
distracted for a moment.
My recollection is that it was accepted by Fr. O'Reilly
at the very end.
THE CHAIRPERSON: All right. Sure carry on
then.
MR. McGRATH: We may using semantics as
to what the difference is.
THE CHAIRPERSON: I'm just telling you that
there was a specific
question in which the specific word was used and he
didn't accept it.
MR. McGRATH: No he didn't, at that
point. But I am suggesting
he suggested it afterwards.
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THE CHAIRPERSON: Listen, what can I do
Mr. McGrath?
Q. MR. McGRATH: Sorry, Chairman, I am just 139
lost for a moment. Dealing
with the question of the Inspectors being familiar with
the schools; certainly it wasn't policy of the ISPCC to
follow up on children once they had been put into care;
is that the situation?
A. That's correct.
Q. So as far as things are concerned as soon as the court 140
made its Order the child goes into the hand's of the
State and that was the end of the matter as far as the
Society was concerned?
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: And they were well paid for
it.
A. I think it is fair to say that the sense coming out
from the annual reports is that that was often seen as
a good solution, that the Inspector -- and I think I
read out the quote from the 1940's annual report, that
they believed that they were treated -- you know, that
a child would receive a good education and that they
would be well cared for, even though that same snippet
also indicated that they would have preferred to keep
the child in the family. So I can only go on those
sort of quotations.
Q. But that comment would seem to be made in an overall 141
bland sort of way. It certainly isn't from the
experience of the Inspectors because they didn't have
any follow up.
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A. Well, I mean the -- that's correct. There is no
evidence within the material we saw that they would
have had any contact with the children in the schools
or any follow up, except in the situations that I
described earlier on, where there would be discussion
around the children being returned to their families.
Q. There was something, however, from quite a long time 142
back and you have referred to it already earlier today,
and that is that it certainly was something well known
to the Society when it was putting children into the
schools, that they were going to cause problems for the
children later because of the stigma that it attached?
A. That's correct. I am not absolutely certain of what
year that reference was, but that's correct.
Q. I think it is about 1942 or thereabouts. 143
A. Yes, it is the same reference I think I referred to
myself. The 1947/48 maybe.
Q. That was a cause of concern for the Society at that 144
particular time?
A. That's correct.
Q. Can I take it then that that was something that came 145
from their knowledge of people, the general public,
that this was a perception out there amongst the
general public that there was this stigma against
children who were in care, or in the industrial
schools?
A. Well I think that what that annual report does identify
is that children on leaving industrial schools and
attempting to gain employment there would have been a
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stigma attached, that's correct.
Q. Dealing with a particular area that seemed to be of 146
concern to the ISPCC, and it is something I have to
admit has occurred to me on a number of occasions just
in a kind of a general view matter, and that is the
question as to whether or not there was an alternative
method for dealing with the poverty situation other
than putting children into care. If I can refer you
first of all to page 13 and 14 of, again, the findings
from the ISPCC records. It is under paragraph 3.1 on
poverty. At the end of page 13 it says:
"The 1937/38 report pointed out that while the rate of home assistance for Dublin was adequate at 25 shillings rates prevailing elsewhere, specifically in Wicklow and Kildare at a maximum payment of 10 shillings per week were insufficient to ensure proper nutritional standards much less the provision of other basic needs."
A. Sorry to interrupt you, I am just not sure where you
are reading from.
Q. Sorry. It is the Maynooth study, page 13 and 14, 147
sorry.
A. Sorry.
Q. Page 13 is where I was starting. 148
A. Yes.
Q. I have just quoted a passage at the end of that page, 149
going over to the next page it says:
"The 1947/48 report again pointed to the adequacy of social welfare payments."
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It says:
"In previous reports we have drawn attention to the large number of cases where we have had to intervene to rescue children from the squalor and undernourishment directly due to poverty. Now authority seems to have worked out for Dublin what should be considered as the poverty line, though there have been a number of private sample inquiries conducted in past years.
In our report for 1945/46 we indicated that a collation of such figures were available show that for the ordinary family to provide proper nutrition and a sum of 8 shillings a head should be made available for food alone. Even with the increases recently made in some of the allowances the amount available leaves many families way below the poverty line at any calculation.
A peculiar feature of the unemployment assistance scale which has brought a number of families to us is the application of the maximum rate allowance, 38 shillings a week, even where there are more than five children. Even giving a man and wife and five children the allowance, plus seven and six children's allowance, this is clearly. Allowing for a moderate rent of, say, five shillings per week the amount available per head is five shillings nine and a half pence is well below the minimum necessary to provide food alone.
In the case of the a widow's pension, the gap is still wider. It is true that in the worse cases the home assistance authority sometimes intervene with an allowance for rent but the total is still insufficient to provide proper nourishment for the children, to say nothing of clothing or bedding, much less or any less necessity necessary amenities. It is small wonder that some parents give up the unequal contest and apply for the committal of their children to industrial schools on the grounds of
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inability to support them.
When, as we have so often pointed out, they cost the public funds 15 shillings a head. If the parents were, say, given ten shillings a head they could keep their children who would not be deprived of home influences and the taxpayer would save five shillings a head."
Now it seems to be quite clear there that as far as the
Society is concerned that shifting some of what was the
capitation fee -- instead of paying a capitation fee,
that if there had been an increase in the money being
paid into families the problem with regard to having to
put children into schools could have been solved and we
are talking about going back as far as 1945, as far as
that view is concerned?
A. Yes, I think there is a number of occasions in annual
reports, including this one, where the Society have
identified that low social services payment, poor
housing and in this case the basic funding given to
families was inadequate. That's correct, I think you
are correct.
Q. And really the problem and the way to solve it was 150
being pointed out by the Society at a very early stage,
I mean this inquiry starts in 1940, in 1945 the Society
was providing a solution?
A. Well in their opinion this was a key factor, yes.
Q. It was a key factor and there was a solution at hand if 151
anybody within Government was prepared to grasp it?
A. Well, I mean I can only comment, yes, I can agree with
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your interpretation of what the annual report says.
Q. In fact, I think in the annual report for the Dublin 152
and district branch 1948/49?
A. Yes.
Q. Under the heading -- I think it is page 4 of the 153
report, under the heading of "Inadequacy of Social
Services Allowances", again the Society is pointing
out:
"In the last year's report attention was drawn to the undernourishment of large numbers of children owing to the fact that the allowances provided under the various social services unemployment assistance, home assistance, widow's pensions and the like were insufficient to allow the parent to keep their children properly fed.
The cases dealt with during the year disclosed quite a number of instances in which there has been definite undernourishment owing to the fact that the parents or guardians of the children have been dependant on such allowances and have been simply unable to support their children.
There is a wide difference between the methods of administering home assistance in various areas and a number of particularly glaring cases of inadequacy will be found below.
Last year we drew attention to two aspects of the system, the first was that the family must often be broken up if the children are to be properly fed and clothed so that they may grow up useful citizens, the second was that the resultant cost of providing for children removed from their parents on the grounds of inability to maintain them is much greater than the amount which, if given in home assistance or some other form of allowance, would enable the family to be kept together. We went on to point out the danger of that persistent undernourishment of families dependent on various forms of
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public relief must result in the creation of whole families of unemployables."
Now, from the point of view of the Society, again it is
the same matter that has arisen earlier in the 1940's,
is still here and the problem is still not being
addressed and not getting any better and it means that
if that situation continues that children are still
going to be continued to be put into care in the 1950's
and 1960's, which is in fact what happened?
A. That's correct. I mean that quote continues to talk
about the position of the family in the constitution.
I think again that emphasises the fact that the Society
were reluctant to place children into residential
institutions.
Q. The Society seems to have taken its role as a Society 154
which should make recommendations serious and continue
to do that throughout the various years, through the
1950's and 1960's and right up to the 1970's, and, as I
understand it, by that stage you were still looking for
ways to improve the lot of children and it would appear
that in one of your papers from 1973, it is called "The
Position of the ISPCC and Childcare Work in Ireland",
it is contained in one of the additional ISPCC
discovery booklets. There doesn't seem to be a
reference on the one that I have.
A. I have a copy of that, it is a one-paged document, I
think.
Q. Yes. In that the -- sorry, Chairman, it is in 155
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additional ISPCC discovery Phase III. I don't have a
number on the particular document.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Just tell us what it is?
It is a one-paged document,
but a one-paged what, a letter or a memo?
Q. MR. McGRATH: It seems to be a 156
memo. It says:
"Position of the ISPCC and Childcare Work in Ireland 1973".
In fact, there should be another page to the document
but it doesn't seem to be there. It says:
"Foster care has much been neglected in Ireland, despite the traditions of the past even when the sons of kings were fostered out, the concept of modern day foster homes has not got off the ground. Very little, if any, attempt has been made by statutory authorities to distinguish between long term and short term foster care or to build up a panel of foster homes. Residential care for children is virtually in the hands of the religious orders.
Some institutions are now breaker into smaller units and caring for both sexes, but the general picture is still large buildings run by nuns for girls and priests and Brothers for boys. Orders nominating children to the care of the Health Board are seldom used and the children are either committed through a court order under the 1908 Children's Act or placed voluntarily in care.
In cases where removal from the family home is necessary foster care is therefore not a viable alternative to a residential one. A residential care is not satisfactory because of the size and one's...READING TO THE WORDS... we operate under an Act is which is outdated an acrognostic. With a new government there will probably be
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changes in the next year but we will still have a long way to go to catch up on the 1969 English Children's Act."
This is an area that you have touched on already with
regard to foster care, in fact, it would appear from
the papers that you have furnished and certainly at an
early stage the ISPCC was interested in the idea of
alternative care and were certainly of the view that
the foster care that was in existence in Ireland was
totally inadequate and you have outlined those
circumstances.
There seemed to be two other problems that the Society
saw at that time and that was (1) if children were
taken down the committal route that they had to go in
until they were 16, there are provisions in the 1908
Act in relation to the licensing out and that, but it
seems in the vast majority of the cases, once the child
was committed that was it, they were in and there was
difficulty getting them back out until they were 16?
A. Yes.
Q. The mention is made of a temporary placement, were the 157
ISPCC involved in temporary placements at all or would
that have arisen in their work?
A. Is the question relating to the 1970's or relating
to...(INTERJECTION).
Q. I am really going back through your records. Do you 158
have any cases whereby temporary accommodation was
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sought or there were temporary arrangements made?
A. The material that we reviewed wouldn't have given us
any indication of that. I mean, there are, I think,
examples of situations where children may have been
placed with extended family for short periods, there
are some notes in the case files of children being
placed in hospital for medical treatment on a short
term.
Q. That would have arisen where they were taken into care 159
at that stage because a doctor had certified that they
had scabies or they had --
A. That's correct.
Q. -- serious problems and they needed medical treatment 160
or they might have had a squint or something of that
nature?
A. That's correct. But there is no evidence that I have
come across indicating a system of temporary care, per
se.
Q. Because there had to be situations where children had 161
to be taken away from parents at a particular time, but
surely the Inspector must have had the view that this
only needed to be temporary but there is the situation
that there was nowhere for those children to go for
that temporary period?
A. Yes. I think there is examples, I am not absolutely
certain of this, but I think that there are examples in
case files of Inspectors making their point.
Q. Does that seem to be a glaring omission in the overall 162
system for care?
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A. Yes.
Q. Is there anything in the documents that you have seen 163
that would suggest that the ISPCC was making
recommendations to the Government in that regard?
A. Well not in the annual reports but I think you quite
rightly pointed out there is a number of annual report
would have identified various different issues and they
did raise the issue of foster care. But they also
raised the issue of -- which is not quite the question
you are asking me, but I mean the issue of sick parents
and their children being committed to industrial
schools. I think they appeared to have been very
active in that regard and I think that does touch on
this issue for the need for temporary care, because
often temporary care would be needed for situations
where parents are sick or ill and the children needed
to be looked after. So I think in that regard that
touches on that but I don't have any evidence that
there was any campaigning done on the broader issue.
Q. Coming back to a matter that I mentioned a moment ago, 164
the question of money and maybe transferring money from
the system into families. Am I correct in
understanding that from the various cases that have
been studied, both by the people who were doing the
Maynooth report and also from your own study of case
files, that there were certainly occasions that it
would appear that families were in very serious straits
and the conditions they were living in were absolutely
appalling, but that through a certain amount of
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charitable donation from the Society itself and a bit
of arm twisting by the Society that the conditions for
those families were improved dramatically?
A. Yes, there are examples.
Q. I am thinking of situations where an Inspector has gone 165
to a home and he has described it as maybe there being
only one bed, children sleeping on floors, there being
no -- the place being essentially squalor and by the
simple expedient of being able to get extra beds for
children, being able to get clothes for children,
having the children treated by a doctor, that instead
of those children going into care that they were
actually able to continue staying at home?
A. Yes, I think the statement identifies a number of cases
and there have been a number of case examples presented
in the annual report. I think yes is the answer to
that.
Q. Doesn't it raise in your mind or shouldn't it raise in 166
anyone's mind that surely if it could be done on a case
by case basis like that by a charitable organisation
that any effort on the part of the State to address the
problem would have resulted in an awful lot less
children being taken into full time care?
A. Yes.
Q. I was asking you there a moment ago in relation to the 167
view taken by the Society in relation to changes being
necessary within the system. I would like to bring you
to the Irish Golden Jubilee Commemoration document
which is contain in folder No. 2 of the Phase III and
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ISPCC documents.
A. What date is that document?
Q. It is about 1939 I think, it is 50 years. It is 168
headed, "National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty
to Children Irish Golden Jubilee Commemoration"?
A. I don't appear to have that reference. Is it not
1940/41 maybe?
Q. The front of the document shows 1889 to 1931 is what is 169
on the figure on the front of it. It is in the same
document as the address by His Majesty the King or a
paper by His Majesty the King on the Society?
A. I just have a copy coming to me, thanks. (Same Handed
to the Witness.)
Q. Go to, I think, it is page 5 in the document, it is 170
headed "50 years"?
A. Yes.
Q. At the bottom of that page there is a paragraph that 171
says:
"Although doubtless we have made much progress in the last 50 years as regards to welfare of children, we have far to go and there is still much scope for reform. Our descendants 50 years hence will no doubt wonder at our complacency over existing wrongs to children, just as we do to our predecessors when we consider the 2,261 children under 15 in prisons in the Dublin metropolitan district in 1888, a fact mentioned in our first Dublin branch report."
Isn't there some irony that we are sitting here in 2006
discussing the welfare of children between the time of
that document, 1939 and 1980?
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A. Yes.
Q. Doesn't it suggest that our Society has very 172
significantly failed?
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Therefore you should
apologise.
Q. MR. McGRATH: Doesn't it establish that 173
our Society really failed
those children between the making of that statement and
the setting up of this Commission?
A. Yes.
Q. Now, further along in that particular booklet there is 174
the Honorary Secretary's annual report for the year
ending 31st December 1971.
A. Sorry. Yes. Sorry for the delay.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Could Mr. McGrath make that
available to Mr. Gilligan?
MR. McGRATH: Sorry, Chairman, if this
caused a problem. This was in one of the folders that
was supplied to me yesterday, so I don't know where it
came from.
THE CHAIRPERSON: It was the 1971 annual
report.
MR. McGRATH: The honorary Secretary
General's report.
A. Sorry, I have a copy of that.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Don't be apologising, it
doesn't matter, these
things happen. All right, Mr. McGrath, Mr. Gilligan
has it.
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Q. MR. McGRATH: Okay. In the second 175
paragraph, about halfway
down the sentence starts -- the heading on the page --
sorry. It is the Cork branch actually report for 1971,
sorry.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Wait now, it is the Cork
branch.
MR. McGRATH: The Cork branch.
Q. THE CHAIRPERSON: Does the Cork branch issue 176
an annual report?
A. No. My understanding is that from 1956 there were
annual reports. I think the confusion may be that the
front cover of this is badly photocopied.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Tell us what you are
looking at, Mr. McGrath.
Q. MR. McGRATH: What I am looking at 177
...(INTERJECTION)?
THE CHAIRPERSON: What does it say.
Q. MR. McGRATH: At the start it says:178
"Honorary Secretary's annual report for the year ending December 31st, 1971."
I don't have a cover for that. But the page before it
appears to be a photocopy of a cover:
"Irish Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Children, Cork branch for the year 1971."
So that's the way it came for me.
SOLICITOR: Maybe if Mr. Gilligan can
just be give an copy of it
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he can read it.
THE CHAIRPERSON: But he doesn't have a copy
of it. Do we have a copy
of it, Mr. MacMahon?
MR. MacMAHON: Yes.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Would you lend Mr. Gilligan
your copy of it and we can
see what progress we can make. (Same Handed). Now,
Mr. McGrath, you have it.
Q. MR. McGRATH: Moving on from the page 179
that says:
"Cork branch, Honorary Secretary's general report for the year ending December 31st, 1971."
Have you got that?
A. Yes.
Q. About halfway down the second paragraph: 180
"Reference must again be made".
THE CHAIRPERSON: Are you looking at the same
thing, Mr. Gilligan?
A. Yes, yes.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Now ask your question.
Q. MR. McGRATH: It says as follows: 181
"Reference must again be made to the dismal failure of our legislators to apply themselves to the scrapping of this Children's Act enacted in 1908 when conditions were quite different to 1972. One must assume that it is regarded in legislative circles that no political advantage can be gained from the enactment of a more suitable and up to date act and as a personal observation I have to say that bills have been presented to the Oireachtas
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of far less consequence and I would ask those charged with responsibility to have a long look at what the priorities are or should be.
In this connection, it would be remiss to omit from this report reference to the Kennedy Report, the findings of which were published in 1970 and no apparent effort is or has been made to implement this Commission's recommendations."
In this summary under the heading "Recommendations on
Prevention", it says:
"The whole aim of the childcare system should be directed towards family breakdown and of problems consequent upon it."
So, in 1971, very much the same as 1939, something
needs to be done and needs to be done quickly, isn't
that the tenet that the Society is saying?
A. Well I think they are identifying the difficulty of the
fact that the legislation -- the primary legislation
with regards to child protection, the 1908 Act, hadn't
been changed.
Q. And again if you can move further on in that booklet to 182
the Honorary Secretary annual report for the year
ending 31st December 1973, in similar format, it is in
somewhat further along in the book. But this is not
paginated. It is shortly ahead of a blue tab in my
book.
A. Is this the Dublin branch?
Q. No, the Cork branch again. It is a 1973 report. It is 183
just a little bit further on past the report that we
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just discussed.
A. The next report in the book that I have here is Dublin
branch 1973.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Why don't you ask the
question, Mr. McGrath, and
then we will see whether Mr. Gilligan needs the
document.
Q. MR. McGRATH: It again indicates in the 184
third paragraph, starting
on the first page:
"The Society at national and local levels continues to press for the updating of the 1908 Children's Act in accordance with the recommendations of the Kennedy Report and it is a source of satisfaction to us that the comparatively recent recognition of the State's responsibility to deserted wives and families and other changes contemplated to assist families in need are being brought about by the submissions and representations made by the ISPCC with the support of kindred bodies".
Now, that would seem to suggest that the types of ways
in which the Society wanted the problem solved back in
the 1930's or 1940's are now finally in the 1970's
being implemented by giving more assistance to the
actual families themselves rather than to the
institutions?
A. I mean, I can only agree with what's in the annual
reports. Yes, there would appear to have been some
movement in terms of payments, but I think the other
point is that the 1908 Act still hadn't been addressed.
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Q. But the point I am simply making is this: That in 185
1973, what is contained in the annual report there,
would seem to be in line with the suggestions being
made by the Society back in the late 1930's, 1938/39
and then the early 1940's, as to how the problem could
be solved by giving money to families, whether it be
families where a parent had gone away or families where
the child was an illegitimate child, as it was at that
time, that the solution to the problem that's arrived
at in 1973 is precisely what the Society was saying
should be done back in the 1930's and 1940's; isn't
that the situation?
A. I think the role -- since its establishment, the role
of the Society has been to attempt to identify what
social policy would help protect the children.
Q. The point I am simply making is this: The policy that 186
you suggested in the 1930's and 1940's should be
implemented, is finally taken on board by a Government
here in the State in the 1970's?
A. Yes, I would agree with that.
Q. It took them a long time to learn; didn't it? 187
A. Yes.
Q. In relation to the matter that I was dealing with 188
earlier, one of your reports, and I think Mr. Gageby
mentioned it in passing and did quote from it and it
did provoke a reaction from some of the people who were
in the institutions when it was read out, it is
something that I do want to bring up with you before I
finish. And that is in the 1948/49 annual report,
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Dublin and district branch, which I think has been
opened by me and by Mr. Gageby previously?
A. Yes.
Q. Under the heading "industrial schools" on page five of 189
that?
A. Yes.
Q. It says as follows:190
"During the year we have had to arrange for the placing of a large number of children in industrial schools chiefly because their parents were unable to maintain them but in some case because their home conditions were so undesirable as to make it necessary to remove them.
There is no doubt that in these schools they receive care and attention and a sound education and are brought up to be useful members of the community.
Nevertheless, however grateful we may be for the devoted work of the Orders which conduct these schools it must be recognised that the children are to a large extent deprived of home influences and that it would be much better if we could avoid sending them to such institutions. If their own homes are impossible good foster homes would give them a healthier and happier introduction to life. It is however seldom possible find such homes in the cases presented to the Society.
There is another aspect of the careers of such children which calls for consideration. Those committed through no fault of their own and even of their parents there are others who find their way into industrial schools through the courts on the grounds of some form of juvenile delinquency, even if it is only such unruliness as failure to attend the ordinary primary schools. These children form a small percentage only of the inmates of these institutions but in the publically eye many of the children leaving such schools are branded with the taint introduced by these few.
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It is very much to be regretted that children who have done nothing to deserve such a character should suffer from the shortcomings of a small minority and it is emphatically not the fault of the schools concerned. But the fact remains and provides a problem which will have to be faced in the future. One remedy would appear to lie in some sort of reclassification of industrial schools which would allow of the segregation of delinquents.
Perhaps the worst instance of the injustice to children from the prevailing reputations of these schools occurs where parents have to apply for committal when they cannot find anyone to care for their children when they have to leave them to undergo hospital treatment.
The whole question of the treatment of deprived children in this country calls for investigation such as it has received recently in England.
There are other aspects also of the industrial school child which would we would pay attention. What's is his future when he's thrown out on his own resources on this charge? The more lucrative trades are not open to him under the system of closed unions, even if he were trained to one of them at school. Again there is seldom any provision for the extension to the boy or girl who shows promise of education beyond the primary stage. It is not surprising that many of our more experienced officers try to avoid the easy course of committal even where the task of bringing about suitable home conditions seems almost insuperable."
Again, back in the 1940's there was very serious cause
for concern in the Society for putting children into
schools even though they felt they were going to get a
good education and being well treated there?
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A. Yes.
Q. At this stage the Commission has heard significant 191
amounts of evidence in terms of how children were
treated in the schools and it would certainly seem, in
my submission, that a statement that:
"There is no doubt in these schools that they receive care and attention and a sound education are brought up to be useful members of the community."
Would certainly be challenged by many of the people who
were there and it seems to be a kind of very blase
remark made given that the Society didn't have any role
in inspecting the schools or in anyway doing follow up
on the children, because there seems to have been no
connection whatsoever, other than as you say in an odd
letter back for one reason or another or an Inquiry as
to whether or not a family are now fit to take a child
back?
A. Yes, I don't know the basis on which they are making
that statement.
Q. Because certainly from the records there would 192
certainly seem to be nothing in the records that would
lead to a conclusion that anyone from the Society has
spent any time in the schools to see how they are run
and would have that particular piece of knowledge?
A. That's correct. I also think, I think I have
identified in the statement, I think it is reasonable
to suspect that the Inspectors and the ISPCC/NSPCC
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would have had the expectation that the Department of
Education, the certification process, would have been
testifying to the quality or lack of quality in the
schools. I think -- and I don't know what the basis of
that statement is, but I think it is clear the
ISPCC/NSPCC didn't have a role in terms of assessing
the quality in the schools.
Q. Can I ask you a little bit about the situation with 193
regard to when the children were leaving schools and
the fact that at that stage there was a concern, did
the Society itself ever consider, having had a role in
putting children into care, that it would or should see
what they could do for children aftercare or be
involved in any way in helping children in aftercare or
did the fact that they came out at 16 mean they were no
longer considered to be children by the Society or
worthy of its attention?
A. I think there is no evidence from the material that the
Society engaged in any aftercare, engaged in thinking
about it or providing aftercare. I think the 1908 Act
defined the child at 16 and I think they would have
assumed that after 16 they were adults. I think it
would be fair to say, based on my knowledge, that
society in general would have considered 16 to have
been the cut off for children. It wasn't until the
1970's, I think that the Society began to look at
attempting to provide some support to children who had
been placed in care by the Society and had attempted to
support them to reintegrate and to build up
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relationships with their families. I think there is
evidence in the material that some projects were
established to attempt to do that.
Q. Now there is one last thing that I want to deal with 194
and it is just in terms of you mentioned the particular
problems that arose for the Society in dealing with
illegitimate children, I mean we had much evidence
yesterday in terms of the poor house or what were more
recently known as the county homes and children being
taken from there and sent into care or into fostering
or whatever for periods which do not seem to have been
successful, I think under the poor laws it was boarding
out and it does not seem to have been terribly
successful. Was it the experience of the Society that
the illegitimate children were more likely to end up in
care than the children in the families?
A. There is no statistics in that regard, unfortunately.
It wasn't a categorisation that was used so I don't
know. But I think there is clear evidence from the
annual reports where the NSPCC/ISPCC have identified
the difficulty of placing -- taking illegitimate
children away from the parents and the placing of those
children in the institutions. I think they have tried
to identify that that wasn't an ideal mechanism.
Q. Because certainly many of the children who were in 195
institutions who were illegitimate have very
significant stories to tell in terms of the effect of
their illegitimacy and the way they were treated in
there and that, it seems to have had an added
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difficulty, whatever about what you have described as
the problems in society outside, inside in the
institutions it certainly seems to have been a reason
for them being treated in specific manners which
legitimate children may not have been treated, owing to
the fact that they were illegitimate or, as the term at
that time was, bastard, and that seems to have been
taken out on them, was the Society in any way aware of
that particular aspect of them being taken into care?
A. No, I think from the evidence that I have read, I think
certainly there is a sense of the difficulties that the
mothers faced in terms of -- I think the word shame is
used. I think there is evidence through the case files
of mothers of illegitimate children not being able to
return home until the children were dealt with, so to
speak. That somewhere was found for them. So I think
you are getting a sense of the sort of issues of social
stigma that illegitimacy apparently carried at that
time. I would feel that that would transfer. But
certainly nothing from the material that I have read
indicates any issue in regards to the residential
facilities with regards to them being treated any
differently from others.
MR. McGRATH: I have no further
questions, Chairman.
END OF EXAMINATION OF MR. GILLIGAN BY MR. McGRATH
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much. Now,
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Mr. MacMahon, have you any
questions?
MR. MacMAHON: I have a few questions
just.
MR. PAUL GILLIGAN WAS FURTHER QUESTIONED, AS FOLLOWS,
BY THE COMMISSION:
Q. MR. MacMAHON: Firstly, in relation to the 196
collection of subscriptions
by the Society, I think the Inspector's directory on
page 39 refers to a rule in relation to this heading,
"Subscriptions and Contribution to the Society", and on
page 39 it says:
"Only under special circumstances and under instructions is an Inspector allowed to collect money, except collections under maintenance orders.
In the event of a contribution being made to an Inspector for the relief of a case he must remit the amount at once to the central office and await instructions as to its application. A receipt will be furnished to the contributor whose names and address should be sent with the remittance."
What was the policy of the Society in relation to the
collection of monies from industrial schools?
A. I'm aware that this issue has arisen within the
Commission and we looked for information with regards
to that and didn't come up with anything other than one
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reference in a case file to communication where an
Inspector was advised not to take a donation, I think
it is from a residential institution, and it refers to
the fact that there had been some suggestion in the
past that there had been some pecuniary advantage, I
think is the reference, paid to Inspectors.
But I mean, I think the best way I can answer this is
that each of the annual reports identifies sources of
income and it seems to be pretty thorough in the
context of the categories and there is no evidence in
those annual reports of any payments being made from
residential institutions. So, if you take any of the
annual reports that have annual accounts they divide up
the sources of income which were all voluntary
pre-1963, from collections, events like sale of works,
legacies, subscriptions which appear to be membership,
like a membership fee. And I would think that if there
was any arrangement for the Society to be paid money
from residential institutions that it would be
identified within the annual accounts.
I think the second possibility raised was that the
Inspector themselves were taking funding. But I think
if that is the case then they would be breaching
clearly the guidelines, the directory, because I think
it is clear from the directory, in two or three places
and you have quoted one, that they were not entitled to
take payments or any subscriptions without notifying
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their honorary secretary, the head office and that they
would be receipted. So I couldn't see that the those
payments would not show up in annual reports. And
there would be no rational in 1942 or 1938 not to show.
There would be no reason why they wouldn't show those
payments if they were being received, in my view.
Q. The reference where this issue came up was in relation 197
to a Visitation Report, it was from 1952, and concern
was raised and appeared to be raised in relation to two
separate Inspectors of the ISPCC, or NSPCC as it then
was, and the requirement that a payment be made of £9
in one case was queried by the visitor, the
congregational visitor to this institution. Reference
is made to the bursar considering it to being more like
a bribe to induce the Inspector to bring boys to the
school but the Superior stated that it was a
subscription to the Society's funds and that was the
explanation that was given to the congregational
visitor at that time?
A. Yes, I mean, I suppose I can only really repeat that we
-- in addressing ourselves to providing a statement to
the Commission and giving this evidence, we took the
view as a Society that alongside our own trawling of
information that we would engage two independent
consultants and they were given -- they were asked to
review all the documentation and specifically while
they were doing that this issue arose within the work
of the Commission and we said to them we want to know
if there is any evidence supporting this claim. We did
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not come across any.
We did come across, and I will find the reference now,
the communication within a case file of a letter
identifying that there had been such an allegation but
saying that the Inspector was not to accept a donation.
That would suggest that there was some allegations made
in regards to this previous to that, perhaps in the
1940's, and that they were trying to deal with it.
But again I would restate -- I mean, one of the
situations that would appear to be clear, certainly up
to 1956 and after 1956, the reporting mechanisms on
finance appeared to be very structured and I would be
surprised if there was a source of financial income
that wasn't being demonstrated in the financial reports
and I would not see why it wouldn't be, because I
presume if there was a structure to receive payments
that that was a formal structure that would be a clear
form of income.
Q. Yes. That particular visitor points out to the fact 198
that the Superior had brought the matter up to
Provincial level within the Congregation and it had
been approved, the payment had been approved at
Provincial level and was made. Then in passing the
visitor referred to the fact that another Inspector
whom the visitor names, expects to get expenses also.
He's referred to in the report as being a well known
sponger. There was one other thing that I wanted to
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ask you about in relation to the Inspector's directory,
this is the document which you referred to in your
report as being a 1947 document but it is perhaps
somewhat older than that, I think?
A. Yes.
Q. It is hand dated 1947 by the owner, or by a previous 199
owner of the document, his name is on the front and it
is dated 10th January 1947?
A. That's correct. It could relate back to the 1930's.
We put that date on it because there was no publication
date on the document and that was the nearest we could
get.
Q. I want to ask you about one thing in it. Just before 200
the contents page there appears to have been a note, it
is a note that appears -- from the photocopy that I
have got, it appears to have been glued in position,
just ahead of the contents page, if you might open the
directory and take a look at it?
A. I wonder would it be possible for me to get the
original document.
Q. That would be helpful. Yes.201
A. If you have that here. (Same Handed) Thank you.
There is a couple of amendments. One of which is
amendment to the superannuation scheme.
Q. I'm not concern with that. If you just go to the 202
contents page.
A. This is the:
"Note to be affixed to Inspector's directory."
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Sexual offences.
Q. Is that a note that has been glued in position? It is 203
an additional note that appears to have been glued into
the page facing the contents book. It says:
"Note to be fixed to Inspector's director."
And then it refers to sexual offences?
A. That's correct.
Q. I will just read it:204
"For the purpose of this directory, if the Inspector receives information from any quarter alleging a sexual offence, incest, carnal knowledge or indecent assault, he should make no inquiries into the allegation or take any statements but should refer the information to the local police without delay".
What's known about the provenance of that insert?
A. Very little, I am afraid. I don't know when that was
inserted, where it came from, from where it arrived.
What I can say slightly off the point, and I apologise
for this, but there is a second directory dated 1960,
which had written in some of -- certainly the
superannuation amendment had been written into the
1960's document and in that document that's removed and
there is sections on investigating sexual offences and
there is also inclusion in the medical reports expected
from the doctors around sexual assault and outrage and
suspected outrage. So I think -- I don't know the
dates of that particular memo but I would suspect that
it coincided with the -- remember this was a UK booklet
and it coincided with the awareness within the UK of
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this whole area of sexual offences and I think the
1960's amendment perhaps reflects the growing awareness
of the need to investigate that. But I can only
speculate.
Q. And it would perhaps reflect an awareness of the 205
criminality of such behaviour?
A. Yes, a growing awareness, I think, of that. Well
effectively yes, that the Inspector had -- I mean, one
of the distinctions that is made in, both in the
directory and in the annual report, is the fact that
the Inspector is not a policeman, not a guard, I think
it is the distinction to ensure that this sexual
offence will be investigated as a criminal offence as
opposed to within the context of maybe cruelty or the
role of the director. But I am speculating on that, I
don't know.
Q. There was a reference to -- and as you are aware there 206
are very few papers extant in relation to the workings
of the Kennedy Committee?
A. Yes.
Q. But one document that we have received from the 207
Department of Education is a query that the Kennedy
Committee made or District Justice Kennedy made to the
Department of Education arising out of concerns
expressed to her by an Inspector -- by the secretary, I
think, of the ISPCC relating to punishment in one of
the industrial schools and District Justice Kennedy was
asking that this matter be investigated by the
Department of Education. That document is accompanied
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by a document which is described as the ISPCC
complaint, which describes precisely what the complaint
is all about. What's the knowledge of the ISPCC of
that complaint at this stage, and indeed what knowledge
does the ISPCC have of other complaints that may have
been made in relation to how the industrial schools
were conducted?
A. Again, the trawl of information didn't provide -- we
came across no evidence that Inspectors were informed
about complaints relating to industrial schools. I
think there is one piece of evidence -- there is one
reference in a case file, I think to -- and we mention
in the statement, of an allegation against a teacher
and the Inspectors dealing with that. But we didn't
come across any information in our trawl with regards
to industrial schools. I am not aware of the
information you are referring.
Q. The Kennedy Committee was conducting its inquiries in 208
1969 and the inquiry which District Justice Kennedy
made of it is dated -- well, a reminder is dated 5th
May 1969, so that postdates the fire in Molesworth
Street by a considerable margin?
A. Yes.
Q. Is there any explanation where the documentation 209
relating to that type of complaint or category of
correspondence might have gone to?
A. Well, unless -- I am just looking to my colleagues. I
am nearly sure that we have archived all of these
specific cases, material up to -- in existence up to
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maybe the 1990's, so if it was a case it would have
emerged. I think the administration files are not
archived and I mean quite frankly they are in boxes in
our head office. We have never archived them and it is
perhaps...(INTERJECTION).
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: You were supposed to do it.
A. There was perhaps some information in regards to -- if
this was dealt as an administrative matter as opposed
to a specific case then it could be within those files.
But if it was a specific case we would have it in our
archives. But finding a specific case would not
necessarily arise in terms of the research we have done
for either this purpose or previously. We are talking
about 8,000 plus cases, we would need somebody to
identify the case and then we would go and find it. I
think the focus of the researches was on the 1930's, to
the present day, but we wouldn't have focussed
necessarily on the 1969/70's time.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Tell us what you got to
find these things?
THE CHAIRPERSON: Please stop, for goodness
sake.
UNKNOWN SPEAKER: Ask the question.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Gilligan, just try to
answer the question, it is
very hard not to be distracted, but try to answer it.
A. Our Chairman at the time was on the Kennedy Commission
so we were involved in the Kennedy Report. That's all
I can really say.
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THE CHAIRPERSON: Have you many more
questions, Mr. MacMahon?
MR. MacMAHON: No, I don't in fact, I have
one more question I wanted
to deal with.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Okay.
Q. MR. MacMAHON: I don't know if you were 210
conscious of the evidence
which was given on behalf of the Department of Health
and the part I want to ask you about is in relation to
the current arrangements in place in relation to
fostering. I think the evidence was that there are
about 5,000 children currently in fostering in Ireland
and that -- sorry, about 5,000 children in care, just
over 4,200 are in foster care. The evidence, I think,
was that no inspections have been conducted since 1999
when social service inspectorate was set up, apart from
a very small number, I think something in excess of 50
inspections as part of a pilot scheme.
Does the ISPCC have a view in relation to the need for
inspections in the present day and age?
A. I think we are on the record -- I mean, there are a
number of concerns we would have with the current child
protection and childcare system, I think that it is
clear from the knowledge we have of the current
residential care system that there is a lot of
difficulties. I think there has been a lot of
advancement in that area, even with the establishment
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of the inspectorate has been a significant development.
But I think it is really important if we are going to
provide quality care for children in care that there
are regular inspections and that the recommendations
that they make are adhered to, not just by the
individual residential institutions but at Government
and Department level, so it really is important to
ensure that inspections do occur.
MR. MacMAHON: Thank you very much.
A. Thank you.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Do you want another go?
MR. GAGEBY: No, I don't actually,
Mr. Chairman. I just want
to come back to something I was just aware earlier on
when I was almost finishing with Mr. Gilligan that
there is a bit of unhappiness with a phrase I used
earlier. I hope the Committee doesn't think I did use
such a phrase to refer to any child, I was referring to
the danger of such a matter. It is just because I am
amicus curiae, I would not like the Committee to think
that you would understand that I had referred so
disparaging to a person, because I certainly didn't.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Very good. Thank you for
clarifying that,
Mr. Gageby. Mr. O'Donoghue, have you anything? Or
Ms. O'Clerigh?
MS. O'CLERIGH: I think Mr. Gilligan might
just like
to...(INTERJECTION).
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THE CHAIRPERSON: What's going to happen
next, I am going to ask
Ms. Shanley and Mr. Lowe. You have no questions that
you want to ask, Ms. O'Clerigh?
MR. O'DONOGHUE: No. I am just indicating
sure that Mr. Gilligan
wants to add something himself.
THE CHAIRPERSON: What I was going to do was
to finish up the question
by inviting Ms. Shanley and Mr. Lowe to ask any
questions they want and if Mr. Gilligan wants to say
something at the end of that, well and good.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: Just one question, if I 211
may. Mr. Gilligan, did any
Inspectors between 1930 and 1970, were any of them ever
removed from office or disciplined or monitored in any
way?
A. Unfortunately I don't know that.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: Was there a monitoring 212
procedure on how they did
their work?
A. It would appear that they operated effectively
independently. There is no evidence that there was --
the directory clearly indicates that they must report
to the Honorary Secretary of each branch, but there was
no evidence that there was any structured supervision
or monitoring of their role.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: Would these people have 213
simply applied for this
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job?
A. That's correct.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: And once they got the job 214
they were sent out and
there was no subsequent monitoring of them?
A. That would appear to be -- well, other than would have
been direct management from the Honorary Secretary and
I think the Inspector's directory identifies how
important it was for the Inspector to furnish all --
for example, they weren't entitled to take any
proceedings against families.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: But the onus was on the 215
Inspector to communicate
with head office, there wasn't an onus the other way
around?
A. The structure was there was Honorary Secretary in each
branch. Say there was 14 branches, Limerick, Mayo,
Clonmel, the Honorary Secretary in that branch would be
effectively line managing the Inspector. But there
wasn't -- we didn't come across any evidence of a sort
of structured sit down and supervise situation. It
would appear that it was through recordkeeping and
through very clear distinct reporting responsibility
seeking permission to warn a family, to seek
procedures, to instigate procedures for committal or
for prosecution. So there was a management structure.
They weren't on their own, per se, but how structured
that was in terms of sitting down and managing as we
would know today is...(INTERJECTION).
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Q. MS. SHANLEY: Just very briefly I would 216
ask you, you discussed
donations. In fact the phrase used in the course of
Phase II was expenses. I just want to clarify with
you, was there any circumstances under which Inspectors
received expenses from industrial schools for the costs
incurred in bringing children to that industrial
school, because they sometimes accompanied the
children? Were they paid their expenses were doing
that?
A. I don't have any evidence and we have come across none
that there were. That's all I can say. And it would
appear from the directory, I would have to check the
reference, that there is a section on expenses, I
think, if you just bear with me for a second.
Q. MS. SHANLEY: Yes. 217
A. There is some mention of expenses of warrants here, but
there isn't -- I would be surprised if they were
receiving expenses, that it wouldn't be covered in the
directory or wouldn't be accounted for in the annual
reports. The reference here is to expenses of
warrants. It says:
"The expenses incurred in executing warrants are not recoverable from either party but are repayable out of the police fund."
Then it talks about:
"If any accounts received by an inspector, he must forward it to the central office where correspondence with the police or authorities would be undertaken. The expense of the conveyance of prisoners is not payable
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to the Society."
I mean, I can't answer you definitively but I have come
across no evidence of expenses or payments from
residential institutions, certainly not documented
MS. SHANLEY: Thank you.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Mr. Lowe.
Q. MR. LOWE: Just one question. The 218
original Council of Windsor
Rules, if you like, for the Society stated:
"Its objective to prevent the public and private wrongs of children and the corruption of their morals."
I just want to know what the corruption of their morals
had as an implication for how the Society functioned?
A. I'm not sure what that referred to in general terms,
but I think the way the Society appeared to interpret
that in Ireland was how it was defined in the 1908
Children Act and there is a number of categories
including a parent engaging in prostitution. I think
there is also reference to drunken and disorderly
father, who had been found guilty of an offence against
a minor. I would also like to point out that that
category of moral risk was identified as a category --
sorry, a way of categorising complaints, or
categorising contacts, and it represented a very low
number, an extremely low percentage of the work of the
Society. I think one of the charts we have moral
danger and immoral offences you are talking about .17%
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of referrals; .86% of -- so, less than 1% of the
referrals.
so I don't know exactly and it wasn't defined, the
directory didn't define it clearly. I suppose one of
the key points arising for me in looking at this
research was that because of the nature -- most
Inspectors came from the police, were retired policemen
or army officers, and I think they adhered very
strongly to the 1908 Act and all their categorisation
is directly related back to that and I think the issues
of moral threat relates back to how that's defined in
the 1908 Act.
MR. LOWE: Thank you.
A. Thank you.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Now, Mr. Gilligan, did you
want to finish up by saying
something?
A. I just wanted to take the opportunity to make two
points. The first is to say that the ISPCC welcome the
opportunity to contribute to the work of the Commission
and to hopefully be able to give some insight into the
functioning of the Society over the years.
Secondly, as I have said in my statement, but for the
benefit of people who have not seen the statement, I
suppose I want to clearly say and express our profound
regret to those people who following committal to an
industrial school on application by a member of the
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Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. Day 228
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ISPCC were subsequently subjected to any form of abuse.
I want to genuinely express that regret, both from the
Society and from myself.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Thank you very much,
Mr. Gilligan.
A. Thank you.
END OF FURTHER QUESTIONING OF MR. GILLIGAN BY THE
COMMISSION.
MR. McGRATH: Sorry, Chairman, before the
Board rises, I have a
couple of matters that I want to address you on.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Certainly, thank you very
much to Mr. Gilligan. If
you want to, you can sit if you to, or if you want to
leave and gather your stuff in a minute. But whatever
you want like, Mr. Gilligan.
MR. McGRATH: The first matter I want to
raise is something arises
out of some questioning I was doing yesterday and I was
asking about the difference between children who were
placed in care under the boarding out system, vis-a-vis
those who were sent in under the order of a court and
stuck there until they were 16. I was contrasting how
much easier it was for one to get out than the other
and Mr. Gageby, in passing, mentioned licence, that I
wasn't dealing with that particular problem.
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Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. Day 228
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The context of the question that I was asking was in
terms of where children were going out to what are
called godparents or families and certainly there has
been some evidence and certainly people have mentioned
to me about the fact that at times those godparents or
those families would liked to have adopted those
children and it didn't happen.
In that context, if Mr. Gageby is raising the question
of licence being available, I was going to suggest to
the Commission that his clients, the Sisters of Mercy,
just even just in respect of maybe Goldenbridge, could
do a trawl through their records and see and give to
the Commission an indication of how many children were
allowed out on licence to live with their godparents or
with families who expressed such an interest and that
might deal with that particular aspect of the matter
which I brought up yesterday.
THE CHAIRPERSON: Yes. Thank you very much.
MR. McGRATH: There are a couple of other
things I have been asked
about. One of them is in relation last week, part of
the week was set aside for the hearing in public
section of experts, that the Commission has brought
forward. That I don't know whether it was adjourned or
what happened to it last week but I do know it didn't
take place. I know from looking at the website that it
would appear to have been cancelled. I suppose from
the point of view of the people that I represent they
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Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. Day 228
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are somewhat anxious to know as to whether it is the
intention of the Committee to hear that evidence in
public or whether there will be any hearings at all or
whether it is cancelled or adjourned or what the status
of that is.
THE CHAIRPERSON: The position is,
Mr. McGrath, that with most
of the reports we are waiting to get them. In fairness
to the experts in some instances we have extended or
changed the instructions that we gave them. And as to
the nature of the hearing, that will depend on what we
think is necessary when we have the reports. We will
consider the reports and we will decide how best to
deal with them. One way or another they will be taken
into account in our report.
But obviously depending on whether there is unanimity
or it is likely to be there is anything controversial
or to be disputed those are matters that we will have
to take into account, bearing in mind fair procedures
obligations.
The short answer is -- so, when we have the reports we
will have to consider how best to deal with them. That
may involve -- it may involve public consideration of
them, it was slotted in to our schedule to enable us to
do that and that would have been when we did it but it
also may not. So I don't want to people to be thinking
that we are changing our minds or whatever.
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Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd. Day 228
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Not that we avoid changing our minds if we think it is
correct to do so. So that's the position, Mr. McGrath.
I'm not really in a position to tell you.
MR. McGRATH: I mean just clarification
in terms of whether it had
been cancelled --
THE CHAIRPERSON: No, no, there is no
problem.
MR. McGRATH: -- or adjourned because
there is some concern, as
you can understand.
The last matter that I have been instructed to say to
you is that I understand that various committees of the
Right of Place Organisation have met this week in
relation to the Commission and I am asked to tell you,
Chairman, that they have voted no confidence in you at
this stage. That's a matter that I have been asked to
say.
THE CHAIRPERSON: So be it, Mr. McGrath. So
be it. Very good. Thank
you very much and thank you for your assistance and we
are now adjourned. Thank you again, Mr. Gilligan.
THE HEARING THEN CONCLUDED AT 1:32 P.M.
''54 [1] - 51:4'56 [1] - 48:11'62 [1] - 48:11'66 [1] - 48:11
11 [2] - 3:8, 77:151% [1] - 109:11.3 [2] - 48:28, 55:281.3% [4] - 27:19,
48:5, 48:6, 48:211.6 [1] - 48:251.85% [1] - 28:51.95% [1] - 28:510 [3] - 3:8, 27:16,
71:1510% [1] - 58:1510th [1] - 98:811 [1] - 3:912 [2] - 12:27, 48:1513 [5] - 14:12, 71:9,
71:11, 71:21, 71:24133 [1] - 3:9134 [1] - 3:1013th [1] - 7:214 [9] - 14:12, 14:27,
15:4, 18:7, 55:29, 56:2, 71:9, 71:21, 106:17
1425 [2] - 48:13, 54:9145 [1] - 48:1315 [2] - 73:2, 81:2316 [13] - 49:10,
49:17, 49:23, 49:29, 50:13, 50:14, 77:17, 77:21, 91:15, 91:21, 91:22, 91:24, 110:25
17% [1] - 108:2918 [2] - 15:5, 38:31888 [1] - 81:241889 [2] - 10:23, 81:818th [2] - 10:17,
10:261900 [1] - 14:101908 [13] - 16:22,
33:20, 42:22, 76:23, 77:17, 84:25, 85:19, 86:12, 86:29, 91:20, 108:18, 109:10, 109:13
1920's [2] - 55:13, 55:17
1930 [4] - 48:2, 56:27, 58:1, 105:15
1930's [15] - 14:26, 15:11, 18:11, 19:5,
19:11, 22:23, 23:18, 28:3, 53:27, 86:22, 87:4, 87:11, 87:17, 98:9, 102:16
1931 [1] - 81:81935/36 [1] - 24:291937/38 [2] - 25:8,
71:121938 [1] - 96:41938/39 [2] - 25:10,
87:41939 [3] - 81:3,
81:29, 85:141939/40 [1] - 57:191940 [1] - 73:241940's [15] - 15:1,
22:24, 24:14, 28:16, 28:24, 28:26, 29:2, 69:19, 75:5, 86:22, 87:5, 87:11, 87:17, 89:26, 97:9
1940/41 [1] - 81:71941 [2] - 46:2, 46:81942 [2] - 70:15, 96:41945 [2] - 73:14,
73:241945/46 [1] - 72:91947 [5] - 16:4,
29:10, 98:3, 98:6, 98:8
1947/48 [2] - 70:17, 71:28
1948 [1] - 30:281948/49 [4] - 29:11,
30:23, 74:3, 87:29195 [1] - 3:101950's [4] - 15:1,
41:2, 75:9, 75:191952 [2] - 53:17, 96:81953 [1] - 31:221953/54 [2] - 32:4,
34:111954 [4] - 31:22,
48:24, 50:16, 51:51956 [12] - 10:18,
10:24, 10:26, 11:25, 14:13, 48:3, 48:18, 49:5, 83:11, 97:13
1956/57 [2] - 27:18, 48:3
196 [1] - 3:121960 [2] - 16:4, 99:191960's [5] - 18:11,
75:10, 75:19, 99:22, 100:2
1961 [2] - 11:19, 11:24
1963 [1] - 18:51968 [2] - 60:17, 61:41969 [3] - 77:2,
101:19, 101:211969/70's [1] -
102:181970 [2] - 85:5,
105:151970's [9] - 14:22,
15:14, 15:26, 60:18, 75:19, 77:26, 86:22, 87:19, 91:26
1971 [7] - 82:13, 82:21, 83:4, 83:20, 83:25, 84:13, 85:14
1972 [1] - 84:261973 [7] - 75:22,
76:8, 85:23, 85:28, 86:3, 87:2, 87:10
1980 [1] - 81:291990's [1] - 102:11999 [1] - 103:161:32 [1] - 113:261st [1] - 10:27
22 [1] - 80:292,261 [1] - 81:232.56% [1] - 28:420% [2] - 28:9, 34:232006 [4] - 1:11, 4:2,
7:2, 81:2720th [2] - 1:11, 4:1218 [1] - 3:12228 [1] - 1:112300 [1] - 48:1624 [4] - 48:9, 48:10,
54:8, 55:2725 [1] - 71:13250 [2] - 34:20, 34:2529 [1] - 48:15
33.1 [1] - 71:1030 [1] - 45:730's [8] - 34:3, 45:25,
47:27, 51:23, 54:3, 55:13, 61:26, 64:14
31/32 [1] - 55:2031st [4] - 82:13,
83:20, 84:13, 85:2338 [1] - 72:1739 [6] - 35:19, 37:19,
37:25, 37:26, 94:13, 94:15
44 [2] - 1:7, 74:54% [1] - 48:28
4,200 [1] - 103:154.6% [1] - 28:640's [4] - 60:25, 61:9,
62:5, 64:2141 [1] - 45:1746 [1] - 12:174669 [1] - 54:9
55 [1] - 81:145,000 [3] - 49:8,
103:13, 103:1450 [9] - 35:15, 35:19,
37:25, 37:26, 81:3, 81:15, 81:19, 81:21, 103:18
50's [2] - 51:12, 64:21
5th [1] - 101:20
66 [2] - 63:15, 63:196,000 [1] - 49:860% [1] - 17:1760's [3] - 47:27,
51:23, 61:2662 [1] - 58:1366 [2] - 56:26, 57:166% [1] - 45:17
77 [1] - 37:1870% [1] - 18:370's [1] - 60:20735 [1] - 48:167500 [1] - 48:16
88 [1] - 72:118,000 [2] - 14:15,
102:1480 [2] - 45:16, 55:1880% [2] - 37:20,
37:2686% [1] - 109:1
Aabandoned [2] -
56:29, 57:1Abandoned [2] -
48:14, 56:28abandonment [2] -
22:14, 26:29ability [1] - 61:3
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
1
able [13] - 13:27, 19:9, 34:22, 51:28, 52:24, 62:20, 65:10, 65:24, 80:9, 80:10, 80:13, 93:14, 109:22
above-named [1] - 1:31
absconded [2] - 27:12, 45:26
absolutely [4] - 6:18, 70:13, 78:25, 79:28
abstract [1] - 19:9abuse [1] - 110:1Abuse [1] - 1:2abused [1] - 59:21accept [5] - 67:9,
67:18, 68:2, 68:26, 97:6
accepted [5] - 66:17, 67:10, 67:24, 67:25, 68:17
accepts [1] - 7:8accommodate [2] -
40:12, 55:2accommodation [4]
- 19:29, 20:14, 39:2, 77:29
accompanied [2] - 100:29, 107:8
accordance [1] - 86:12
account [4] - 11:29, 27:13, 112:15, 112:20
accounted [1] - 107:20
accounts [3] - 95:14, 95:21, 107:27
accuracy [2] - 67:13, 67:29
accurate [2] - 1:29, 67:8
accustomed [2] - 59:17, 59:20
acknowledgment [1] - 51:13
acrognostic [1] - 76:29
act [1] - 84:28Act [18] - 16:22,
16:26, 42:22, 46:2, 46:8, 46:13, 76:24, 76:28, 77:2, 77:18, 84:25, 85:19, 86:12, 86:29, 91:20, 108:19, 109:10, 109:13
action [3] - 1:31, 15:19, 47:28
actions [1] - 24:25active [1] - 79:13actual [4] - 22:3,
24:9, 42:26, 86:24add [1] - 105:7added [1] - 92:29additional [5] -
20:26, 57:17, 75:24, 76:1, 99:3
address [5] - 6:6, 80:21, 81:10, 94:22, 110:13
addressed [3] - 31:25, 75:7, 86:29
addresses [1] - 12:18
addressing [1] - 96:21
adequacy [1] - 71:28adequate [1] - 71:13adequately [1] -
25:25adhered [2] - 104:5,
109:9adherence [2] -
42:21, 42:22adjourn [2] - 7:22,
9:9adjourned [4] -
111:25, 112:4, 113:10, 113:24
administering [1] - 74:19
administration [2] - 11:28, 102:2
administrative [2] - 62:20, 102:8
administrator [1] - 12:27
admissions [1] - 50:18
admit [1] - 71:4adopted [1] - 111:6Adoption [1] - 53:17adrift [1] - 21:20adults [2] - 20:15,
91:22advance [1] - 61:24advancement [1] -
103:29advances [1] - 61:19advantage [2] -
84:27, 95:5advice [5] - 7:23, 8:5,
8:27, 9:16, 48:15advised [4] - 8:19,
32:18, 34:15, 95:2affects [2] - 8:3, 8:17affixed [1] - 98:28affording [1] - 31:18afraid [7] - 24:19,
30:28, 39:19, 41:22, 56:5, 56:9, 99:16
aftercare [6] - 31:6, 31:17, 91:13, 91:14, 91:19, 91:20
afterwards [2] - 51:4, 68:29
age [9] - 25:13, 44:17, 44:18, 49:10, 49:17, 49:29, 50:12, 50:14, 103:22
ago [3] - 14:2, 79:20, 80:25
agree [5] - 45:2, 67:11, 73:29, 86:26, 87:20
agreed [4] - 27:9, 58:28, 62:9, 68:12
ahead [2] - 85:25, 98:17
aid [1] - 42:17aim [2] - 25:17, 85:10albeit [1] - 53:22alcoholism [1] -
22:13allegation [3] - 97:5,
99:12, 101:13allegations [1] - 97:7alleging [1] - 99:11allow [4] - 22:10,
54:10, 74:12, 89:6allowance [6] -
24:15, 72:17, 72:18, 72:19, 72:25, 74:27
Allowances [1] - 74:7allowances [3] -
72:12, 74:10, 74:17allowed [2] - 94:17,
111:15Allowing [1] - 72:19almost [3] - 43:20,
89:23, 104:15alone [2] - 72:11,
72:22alongside [4] -
22:12, 32:29, 44:7, 96:23
alternative [8] - 26:18, 51:19, 51:21, 52:10, 54:4, 71:6, 76:26, 77:9
alternatives [4] - 51:17, 51:25, 52:8, 53:26
amendment [4] - 46:2, 98:24, 99:21, 100:2
amendments [2] - 16:5, 98:23
amenities [1] - 72:27America [1] - 27:3amicus [3] - 13:21,
63:8, 104:20amount [14] - 11:21,
13:22, 18:29, 20:7, 24:4, 24:18, 45:12, 45:21, 60:10, 72:12, 72:20, 74:26, 79:29, 94:20
amounts [2] - 20:14, 90:3
and...(interjection
[1] - 28:21animal [3] - 59:7,
59:13, 59:23annual [89] - 11:15,
11:27, 12:6, 14:9, 14:10, 14:13, 15:26, 16:3, 16:14, 16:16, 17:3, 17:14, 18:2, 18:16, 19:16, 20:4, 20:5, 20:27, 21:2, 22:2, 23:4, 24:6, 24:10, 24:26, 25:3, 25:12, 25:20, 27:18, 27:26, 28:10, 28:28, 29:1, 33:18, 33:24, 33:28, 37:9, 38:10, 39:20, 41:1, 41:5, 43:10, 45:23, 46:7, 47:9, 47:24, 48:3, 48:18, 51:1, 51:5, 51:24, 55:20, 56:5, 57:19, 58:22, 61:29, 62:8, 62:16, 64:10, 64:18, 65:22, 67:5, 67:6, 69:17, 69:19, 70:27, 73:16, 74:1, 74:2, 79:5, 79:6, 80:16, 82:12, 82:21, 83:10, 83:12, 83:20, 85:22, 86:26, 87:2, 87:29, 92:20, 95:9, 95:12, 95:14, 95:21, 96:3, 100:10, 107:20
answer [14] - 13:3, 17:24, 18:7, 24:19, 44:2, 50:6, 66:7, 66:24, 80:16, 95:8, 102:25, 102:26, 108:3, 112:23
answers [1] - 46:16anxious [1] - 112:1Anyway [2] - 39:26,
67:27anyway [3] - 29:10,
36:6, 90:14apart [2] - 22:21,
103:17apologise [3] - 7:13,
82:5, 99:18apologises [1] - 6:22
apologising [1] - 82:26
apology [4] - 6:9, 7:10, 7:17, 8:1
appalling [2] - 9:23, 79:29
apparent [1] - 85:5Appear [1] - 49:15appear [58] - 6:4,
12:8, 13:21, 15:4, 17:7, 17:21, 19:21, 20:27, 23:10, 25:20, 26:19, 27:25, 29:9, 35:19, 38:14, 39:4, 39:6, 39:8, 39:16, 39:29, 40:7, 41:16, 42:3, 42:21, 43:4, 43:19, 46:13, 47:12, 50:8, 52:8, 53:11, 53:14, 56:2, 59:9, 62:3, 62:7, 62:14, 62:17, 63:8, 64:5, 64:9, 64:18, 64:26, 65:7, 65:12, 75:21, 77:6, 79:27, 81:6, 86:27, 89:5, 95:17, 97:12, 105:22, 106:6, 106:22, 107:13, 111:28
appeared [15] - 16:23, 19:12, 19:19, 21:11, 23:8, 23:19, 31:11, 52:2, 52:3, 57:8, 63:9, 79:12, 96:9, 97:14, 108:17
appellant [1] - 2:24application [8] -
20:22, 38:16, 40:11, 41:27, 53:18, 72:16, 94:21, 109:29
applied [1] - 105:29apply [6] - 39:15,
39:25, 40:21, 72:28, 84:25, 89:9
applying [1] - 21:21appreciate [3] -
24:23, 46:19, 66:24approach [3] - 17:19,
64:27, 65:1approached [1] -
64:27approaching [1] -
17:13appropriately [1] -
60:8approved [2] - 97:24Archbishop [4] -
18:18, 50:19, 51:6, 51:14
archive [2] - 62:20,
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62:22archived [4] - 14:1,
101:28, 102:3, 102:4archives [2] - 61:21,
102:11area [10] - 16:11,
22:26, 44:4, 45:3, 51:16, 60:5, 71:2, 77:5, 100:1, 103:29
areas [7] - 14:16, 14:17, 14:18, 15:2, 15:3, 21:28, 74:20
argue [1] - 49:5arguing [4] - 20:6,
20:7, 45:27, 56:12argument [1] - 24:11arise [4] - 13:3, 23:4,
57:7, 102:12arisen [8] - 4:23,
24:29, 26:20, 58:23, 75:5, 77:25, 78:9, 94:27
arises [4] - 4:19, 32:17, 34:14, 110:20
arising [3] - 7:28, 100:24, 109:6
arm [1] - 80:2army [3] - 27:9,
109:9arose [2] - 92:6,
96:27arrange [2] - 29:15,
88:8arrangement [2] -
59:1, 95:19arrangements [2] -
78:1, 103:11arrived [2] - 87:9,
99:17ashamed [1] - 9:24aside [2] - 43:1,
111:23aspect [5] - 29:29,
34:20, 88:22, 93:9, 111:17
aspects [4] - 26:26, 31:2, 74:22, 89:15
assault [4] - 42:16, 48:13, 99:12, 99:25
assess [1] - 38:19assessing [1] - 91:6assessment [1] -
22:11assessments [2] -
23:26, 23:27assist [3] - 13:23,
37:15, 86:15assistance [23] -
7:25, 20:24, 21:22, 21:23, 23:23, 23:25,
23:29, 24:3, 24:8, 25:8, 26:3, 44:9, 48:9, 64:28, 71:13, 72:15, 72:24, 74:11, 74:12, 74:20, 74:27, 86:23, 113:23
assisted [1] - 52:15assume [2] - 44:22,
84:26assumed [3] - 10:29,
44:14, 91:22assumption [1] -
39:1astonishing [1] -
55:13astonishingly [1] -
56:17atmosphere [2] -
62:12, 62:13attached [2] - 70:12,
71:1attempt [5] - 21:3,
27:11, 76:15, 87:14, 92:3
attempted [3] - 13:25, 14:3, 91:28
attempting [2] - 70:29, 91:27
attempts [4] - 12:21, 26:28, 39:6, 52:17
attend [3] - 30:5, 43:20, 88:26
attention [12] - 29:19, 31:3, 33:12, 46:28, 64:25, 72:3, 74:9, 74:22, 88:13, 89:16, 90:6, 91:17
attract [1] - 27:15attributes [1] - 18:10au [2] - 50:22, 52:2author [1] - 6:17authorities [4] -
20:23, 23:7, 76:16, 107:28
authority [5] - 21:23, 23:11, 45:3, 72:5, 72:24
availability [3] - 18:24, 38:23, 39:7
available [18] - 11:10, 11:17, 11:21, 18:27, 18:29, 19:15, 22:19, 36:25, 46:17, 51:22, 54:25, 66:25, 72:10, 72:11, 72:13, 72:20, 82:16, 111:10
average [2] - 37:18, 48:24
averages [2] - 18:3, 48:25
avoid [4] - 29:24, 88:18, 89:21, 113:2
avoiding [1] - 42:12await [1] - 94:20aware [8] - 40:16,
64:7, 66:10, 93:8, 94:27, 100:17, 101:16, 104:14
awareness [5] - 61:13, 99:29, 100:2, 100:5, 100:7
awful [1] - 80:22
Bbabies [6] - 52:4,
56:8, 56:11, 56:13, 58:3
baby [7] - 38:9, 57:11, 57:13, 57:29
backdrop [1] - 57:2background [3] -
13:23, 31:23, 63:9bad [1] - 25:10badly [1] - 83:13Ballsbridge [1] - 1:7Based [1] - 67:4based [9] - 10:22,
12:17, 12:18, 15:6, 33:25, 40:6, 65:21, 66:25, 91:23
basic [2] - 71:16, 73:19
basis [6] - 56:16, 56:18, 65:2, 80:20, 90:20, 91:4
bastard [1] - 93:7bat [2] - 32:22bear [4] - 30:21,
44:12, 51:3, 107:15bearing [1] - 112:20became [2] - 6:27,
18:20become [1] - 60:22bed [2] - 20:16, 80:7bedding [4] - 20:13,
20:24, 20:25, 72:27beds [1] - 80:9beg [1] - 48:14began [3] - 60:16,
60:19, 91:26begging [1] - 25:11behalf [5] - 5:18, 8:1,
8:22, 11:14, 103:9behaviour [2] -
43:23, 100:6behest [1] - 50:18behind [2] - 35:7,
39:8bell [1] - 36:12
below [3] - 72:13, 72:21, 74:21
benefit [1] - 109:26best [4] - 21:10,
95:8, 112:13, 112:24better [6] - 29:24,
34:12, 56:12, 61:10, 75:7, 88:18
between [12] - 18:11, 19:8, 28:2, 34:28, 47:27, 48:28, 74:19, 76:16, 81:28, 82:8, 105:15, 110:22
Beyond [1] - 48:14beyond [1] - 89:20big [2] - 38:6, 38:10biggest [2] - 19:20,
37:10bills [1] - 84:29bit [11] - 17:6, 21:20,
28:19, 44:12, 46:26, 53:1, 58:9, 80:1, 85:29, 91:8, 104:16
bits [1] - 68:6Bl [2] - 2:5, 2:9bland [1] - 69:27blase [1] - 90:12blue [1] - 85:25Board [2] - 76:22,
110:12board [2] - 12:27,
87:18boarding [4] - 55:10,
60:1, 92:12, 110:23boards [1] - 23:10Boards [2] - 44:7,
60:19bodies [1] - 86:17body [1] - 60:24book [6] - 6:28,
15:10, 85:24, 85:26, 86:2, 99:4
booklet [3] - 82:11, 85:21, 99:28
booklets [1] - 75:25books [1] - 14:7bottom [1] - 81:17boxes [1] - 102:3boy [3] - 40:12,
66:16, 89:19boys [3] - 31:10,
76:21, 96:15branch [20] - 14:11,
14:29, 23:14, 33:2, 33:4, 74:3, 81:25, 83:4, 83:7, 83:8, 83:9, 83:24, 84:12, 85:27, 85:28, 86:3, 88:1, 105:25, 106:17, 106:18
branches [4] - 10:23, 14:27, 26:23, 106:17
branded [1] - 88:29breaching [1] - 95:25break [1] - 55:23breakdown [2] -
25:15, 85:11breaker [1] - 76:19breakup [1] - 54:26bribe [1] - 96:15brief [1] - 40:5briefly [2] - 6:6,
107:1bring [4] - 31:21,
80:27, 87:28, 96:15bringing [2] - 89:22,
107:7Britain [1] - 61:18broader [1] - 79:19broken [1] - 74:23Broken [1] - 68:14Brothers [1] - 76:21brought [11] - 11:26,
11:28, 29:20, 62:6, 72:15, 86:16, 88:13, 90:7, 97:22, 111:18, 111:24
brutal [8] - 66:18, 67:4, 67:10, 67:12, 67:18, 67:23, 67:27
brutality [1] - 67:11build [2] - 76:17,
91:29buildings [1] - 76:21bulk [2] - 16:28, 17:3bursar [1] - 96:14business [3] - 20:29,
58:3, 59:22buying [1] - 58:3
Ccalculation [1] -
72:14campaigning [4] -
25:4, 25:14, 50:24, 79:19
cancelled [3] - 111:28, 112:4, 113:7
cannot [3] - 11:29, 57:14, 89:10
capitation [2] - 73:10care [52] - 21:5,
21:15, 26:18, 29:19, 33:17, 50:10, 52:7, 52:27, 54:13, 55:7, 56:10, 58:15, 58:17, 65:1, 65:3, 65:13, 69:7, 70:25, 71:8, 75:9, 76:13, 76:17,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
3
76:18, 76:22, 76:24, 76:26, 76:27, 77:6, 77:9, 77:10, 78:9, 78:17, 78:29, 79:8, 79:14, 79:15, 80:12, 80:23, 88:13, 89:10, 90:6, 91:12, 91:28, 92:10, 92:16, 93:9, 103:14, 103:15, 103:27, 104:3, 110:23
cared [5] - 25:25, 26:10, 29:5, 60:8, 69:22
careers [2] - 29:29, 88:22
caring [2] - 23:9, 76:20
carnal [1] - 99:11carried [1] - 93:18carry [2] - 30:18,
68:19case [75] - 9:15,
12:5, 12:9, 14:7, 14:15, 14:18, 17:11, 19:15, 19:18, 19:27, 20:5, 20:28, 22:2, 22:3, 22:4, 22:26, 23:16, 23:20, 23:22, 24:21, 26:4, 26:7, 26:27, 27:2, 27:3, 27:8, 29:9, 29:28, 34:20, 36:3, 39:5, 39:12, 39:19, 41:10, 42:3, 43:3, 43:14, 43:21, 43:24, 46:28, 50:9, 50:11, 50:20, 51:24, 52:25, 57:11, 58:21, 59:11, 60:12, 62:22, 64:23, 65:7, 65:23, 72:23, 73:19, 78:6, 78:27, 79:25, 80:15, 80:19, 80:20, 88:10, 93:13, 94:20, 95:1, 95:25, 96:12, 97:4, 101:12, 102:1, 102:9, 102:10, 102:11, 102:15
Case [1] - 48:12cases [56] - 17:17,
17:19, 18:19, 19:6, 19:10, 19:26, 20:4, 21:14, 21:16, 21:19, 22:12, 22:15, 24:1, 25:15, 27:14, 27:19, 29:17, 32:16, 34:14, 34:25, 35:3, 35:9, 35:16, 35:19, 35:26, 37:19, 37:25, 37:26, 38:3, 39:4, 43:7, 43:9, 43:20, 45:10, 54:8,
54:16, 54:18, 54:19, 57:10, 58:26, 60:5, 62:4, 66:10, 72:3, 72:24, 74:14, 74:20, 76:25, 77:19, 77:29, 79:23, 80:14, 88:21, 101:29, 102:14
catch [1] - 77:1categories [6] -
16:29, 17:2, 42:19, 44:20, 95:11, 108:19
categorisation [4] - 16:24, 55:22, 92:18, 109:10
categorisations [1] - 42:20
categorised [2] - 19:19, 55:25
categorising [2] - 108:25, 108:26
category [8] - 16:19, 16:21, 17:15, 37:10, 37:11, 101:25, 108:24
Catholic [1] - 18:17caused [4] - 6:24,
7:14, 19:12, 82:18causes [3] - 30:3,
47:9, 55:26causing [1] - 48:14central [7] - 32:25,
33:1, 33:5, 33:8, 33:10, 94:20, 107:28
centre [1] - 15:28centred [1] - 18:26Ceo [2] - 12:26certain [3] - 70:13,
78:26, 79:29certainly [40] - 5:5,
21:15, 22:25, 22:27, 25:7, 27:26, 33:29, 35:13, 40:6, 40:26, 41:1, 46:22, 51:12, 54:2, 54:4, 56:9, 56:13, 63:27, 64:9, 64:26, 69:6, 69:27, 70:9, 77:7, 77:9, 79:26, 90:4, 90:11, 90:22, 90:23, 92:25, 93:3, 93:11, 93:20, 97:12, 99:20, 104:22, 108:5, 111:3, 111:4
Certainly [5] - 11:27, 43:2, 43:21, 64:15, 110:14
certification [1] - 91:2
certified [1] - 78:10certify [1] - 1:28chair [1] - 5:25chairman [1] - 12:27
Chairman [16] - 6:3, 6:29, 7:17, 9:3, 9:4, 10:2, 67:17, 68:15, 69:3, 75:29, 82:17, 93:25, 102:27, 104:13, 110:11, 113:18
Chairperson [61] - 1:18, 4:4, 4:6, 4:12, 4:16, 4:26, 5:3, 5:14, 5:24, 6:1, 6:11, 7:18, 7:26, 9:27, 10:8, 13:8, 13:13, 36:27, 37:14, 37:25, 49:15, 49:19, 49:26, 50:4, 63:1, 67:8, 67:19, 67:25, 68:11, 68:19, 68:23, 69:1, 76:3, 82:21, 82:26, 83:6, 83:9, 83:14, 83:18, 84:2, 84:6, 84:19, 84:22, 86:4, 93:29, 102:21, 102:24, 103:1, 103:6, 104:11, 104:23, 105:1, 105:8, 108:7, 109:16, 110:4, 110:14, 111:19, 112:6, 113:8, 113:21
challenged [1] - 90:11
chances [1] - 52:23change [10] - 11:25,
25:6, 25:8, 25:14, 25:22, 25:24, 26:16, 51:29, 62:15, 64:20
changed [3] - 61:26, 85:20, 112:10
changes [3] - 77:1, 80:26, 86:15
changing [2] - 112:29, 113:2
character [1] - 89:2charge [1] - 89:17charged [1] - 85:1charges [2] - 41:20,
44:15charitable [2] - 80:1,
80:20charity [1] - 17:26Charter [1] - 15:25charts [1] - 108:28cheap [1] - 60:2check [2] - 33:13,
107:13Chief [2] - 10:4,
10:15chiefly [2] - 29:16,
88:9child [59] - 15:28,
15:29, 16:12, 24:12,
25:23, 25:24, 26:5, 26:6, 26:8, 26:9, 26:18, 31:2, 32:10, 32:23, 32:27, 33:17, 36:22, 38:6, 38:7, 38:24, 39:12, 39:14, 40:12, 40:18, 40:20, 40:22, 40:29, 41:10, 41:14, 42:6, 44:4, 44:5, 46:20, 46:21, 47:4, 53:4, 54:18, 56:3, 57:18, 57:27, 57:28, 58:26, 59:4, 59:6, 60:7, 61:3, 69:11, 69:21, 69:24, 77:19, 85:19, 87:8, 89:15, 90:18, 91:21, 103:24, 104:18
Child [1] - 1:2childcare [3] - 61:19,
85:10, 103:25Childcare [2] - 75:23,
76:8Children [7] - 10:6,
10:22, 16:22, 16:25, 81:5, 83:24, 108:19
children [187] - 13:24, 15:17, 15:20, 16:6, 16:8, 17:7, 18:25, 19:2, 19:3, 19:28, 20:2, 20:15, 21:5, 21:15, 22:13, 22:16, 23:9, 25:1, 25:2, 27:24, 28:15, 29:5, 29:8, 29:16, 29:23, 30:1, 30:11, 30:24, 31:14, 31:19, 31:24, 31:29, 32:7, 34:5, 34:24, 35:22, 36:4, 36:5, 36:11, 37:22, 38:4, 38:27, 39:6, 39:23, 40:4, 40:6, 41:4, 41:7, 44:1, 44:29, 45:17, 46:3, 46:11, 47:13, 48:17, 49:6, 50:10, 50:13, 50:26, 51:7, 52:5, 52:7, 52:27, 53:2, 53:7, 53:19, 53:21, 53:28, 54:9, 54:13, 54:17, 54:20, 54:22, 55:1, 55:14, 55:17, 55:18, 55:22, 55:24, 55:28, 55:29, 56:18, 57:4, 57:5, 57:22, 58:13, 58:17, 58:18, 58:29, 60:2, 60:27, 62:6, 62:11, 63:26, 64:8, 64:24, 64:29, 65:3, 65:17, 69:7,
70:3, 70:6, 70:10, 70:12, 70:25, 70:28, 71:8, 72:4, 72:18, 72:18, 72:26, 72:29, 73:4, 73:13, 74:10, 74:13, 74:17, 74:18, 74:23, 74:25, 75:8, 75:14, 75:21, 76:18, 76:22, 76:23, 77:15, 78:4, 78:6, 78:19, 78:23, 79:11, 79:16, 80:7, 80:10, 80:11, 80:12, 80:23, 81:20, 81:22, 81:23, 81:28, 82:8, 87:15, 88:9, 88:16, 88:22, 88:27, 88:28, 89:2, 89:8, 89:10, 89:13, 89:27, 90:3, 90:15, 91:9, 91:12, 91:13, 91:14, 91:16, 91:25, 91:27, 92:7, 92:9, 92:15, 92:16, 92:22, 92:23, 92:25, 93:5, 93:14, 93:15, 103:13, 103:14, 104:3, 107:7, 107:9, 108:11, 110:22, 111:2, 111:7, 111:14
Children's [6] - 42:22, 46:12, 76:24, 77:2, 84:25, 86:12
children's [2] - 24:15, 72:19
choice [1] - 59:3Church [1] - 18:18circles [1] - 84:27circumstance [2] -
23:17, 39:10circumstances [7] -
8:14, 8:21, 19:22, 65:4, 77:12, 94:16, 107:5
citizen [1] - 9:10citizens [1] - 74:24city [1] - 20:20claim [1] - 96:29clarification [1] -
113:5clarify [4] - 13:28,
36:27, 66:4, 107:4clarifying [1] -
104:24class [1] - 47:28classically [1] -
21:24clean [1] - 20:24clear [26] - 4:28,
16:5, 16:18, 19:21, 21:1, 21:17, 30:10,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
4
31:15, 32:16, 34:13, 43:2, 44:9, 44:10, 44:20, 44:21, 58:6, 64:16, 65:26, 73:8, 91:5, 92:19, 95:27, 97:12, 97:19, 103:26, 106:23
clearly [19] - 16:2, 16:22, 18:2, 21:16, 22:1, 26:13, 26:23, 27:27, 29:7, 30:19, 30:29, 33:23, 42:9, 44:11, 72:19, 95:26, 105:24, 109:5, 109:27
cleft [1] - 26:8clients [1] - 111:11climate [1] - 52:21clinic [1] - 21:21Clonmel [3] - 28:5,
66:15, 106:18close [1] - 39:7closed [1] - 89:18clothed [1] - 74:24clothes [2] - 21:14,
80:10clothing [4] - 20:26,
23:14, 26:3, 72:26coincided [2] -
99:28, 99:29collation [1] - 72:9colleagues [1] -
101:27collect [1] - 94:17collection [2] -
94:11, 94:26collections [2] -
94:18, 95:16combination [1] -
22:4combining [1] - 7:24coming [10] - 30:19,
31:16, 36:21, 52:29, 53:8, 55:6, 58:18, 65:19, 69:16, 81:12
Coming [1] - 79:20Commemoration [2]
- 80:28, 81:5Commenced [1] - 4:1comment [6] - 6:19,
41:1, 41:5, 60:15, 69:26, 73:29
comments [7] - 6:6, 6:16, 6:19, 6:23, 7:8, 7:14, 8:2
Commission [37] - 1:2, 2:1, 2:5, 3:8, 3:12, 5:23, 6:6, 8:12, 8:29, 9:3, 9:5, 9:25, 10:12, 11:4, 11:5, 12:17, 13:11, 13:21,
13:26, 26:25, 38:26, 39:21, 63:9, 65:28, 82:9, 90:2, 94:7, 94:28, 96:22, 96:28, 102:27, 109:21, 110:9, 111:11, 111:14, 111:24, 113:17
Commission's [1] - 85:6
commissioned [1] - 17:16
commit [3] - 43:27, 46:3, 49:23
committal [37] - 13:24, 17:20, 19:8, 26:19, 27:22, 28:1, 28:14, 28:16, 31:28, 32:16, 32:18, 32:22, 32:26, 33:16, 33:25, 34:10, 34:14, 34:15, 34:24, 35:7, 35:15, 36:6, 36:22, 37:17, 38:14, 38:16, 38:17, 45:9, 47:17, 49:1, 51:21, 72:29, 77:16, 89:10, 89:22, 106:25, 109:28
committals [6] - 19:21, 28:9, 33:7, 35:4, 49:9, 58:11
Committals...(interjection [1] - 49:14
committed [22] - 27:24, 27:25, 27:28, 30:1, 30:12, 31:14, 35:23, 36:22, 37:22, 44:29, 45:17, 45:18, 46:12, 46:18, 46:23, 47:4, 49:27, 58:14, 76:23, 77:20, 79:11, 88:23
Committee [17] - 2:3, 6:9, 6:14, 6:29, 7:1, 7:2, 7:3, 7:13, 8:11, 9:13, 14:21, 100:19, 100:23, 101:18, 104:17, 104:20, 112:2
Committee's [1] - 7:11
committees [1] - 113:15
committing [2] - 29:8, 31:24
communicate [1] - 106:13
communicating [1] - 62:3
communication [11] - 18:26, 18:27, 19:1,
40:3, 40:4, 40:17, 41:16, 61:28, 66:11, 95:1, 97:4
community [4] - 29:20, 51:27, 88:14, 90:7
comparatively [1] - 86:14
compared [2] - 55:21, 55:28
compares [1] - 56:22comparison [1] -
56:24complacency [1] -
81:22complainants [1] -
63:10complaint [9] - 9:6,
16:19, 16:20, 16:21, 44:16, 101:2, 101:4, 101:25
Complaints [1] - 44:15
complaints [3] - 101:5, 101:10, 108:25
completeness [1] - 42:13
component [1] - 31:5
comprise [1] - 11:11concept [1] - 76:14concern [11] - 29:2,
44:17, 50:25, 62:2, 70:18, 71:3, 89:27, 91:10, 96:8, 98:25, 113:11
concerned [7] - 6:27, 17:9, 69:10, 69:13, 73:9, 73:15, 89:4
concerns [3] - 24:28, 100:24, 103:24
Concluded [1] - 113:26
conclusion [2] - 7:16, 90:24
conditions [10] - 19:28, 22:13, 29:17, 32:1, 52:22, 79:28, 80:2, 84:26, 88:10, 89:23
conduct [3] - 29:22, 44:15, 88:16
conducted [11] - 20:28, 26:14, 26:15, 35:2, 41:24, 45:8, 66:29, 67:1, 72:7, 101:7, 103:16
conducting [1] - 101:18
confidence [2] -
18:8, 113:18confusion [1] - 83:12Congregation [1] -
97:23congregational [2] -
96:13, 96:18Connaught [1] -
38:28connected [2] -
14:28, 57:9connection [3] -
60:24, 85:3, 90:16conscience [1] -
9:14conscious [1] -
103:8consent [6] - 33:11,
33:13, 33:14, 35:28, 45:25, 45:28
consented [2] - 35:27, 36:11
consenting [1] - 45:4consequence [1] -
85:1consequent [1] -
85:11consequently [1] -
9:9consider [9] - 5:18,
9:4, 9:25, 54:4, 54:6, 81:23, 91:11, 112:13, 112:24
considerable [1] - 101:22
consideration [5] - 15:29, 30:1, 50:10, 88:23, 112:25
considerations [1] - 39:15
considered [4] - 25:13, 72:6, 91:16, 91:24
considering [1] - 96:14
consisted [1] - 14:10consistent [1] -
15:14consistently [1] -
15:25constitution [4] -
32:5, 32:12, 32:15, 75:12
consultants [3] - 13:29, 67:2, 96:25
contact [13] - 12:23, 27:4, 33:1, 35:20, 36:24, 37:2, 37:6, 37:8, 37:10, 37:13, 37:21, 40:15, 70:3
contacted [1] - 12:14
contacts [3] - 48:5, 48:6, 108:26
contain [2] - 22:2, 80:29
contained [2] - 75:24, 87:2
contemplated [1] - 86:15
contents [4] - 98:14, 98:17, 98:26, 99:4
contest [1] - 72:28context [8] - 7:4,
29:3, 35:2, 45:28, 95:11, 100:14, 111:1, 111:9
continually [1] - 32:10
continue [5] - 9:14, 30:9, 59:19, 75:17, 80:13
continued [1] - 75:9continues [3] - 75:8,
75:11, 86:11contrasting [1] -
110:25contribute [2] -
13:27, 109:21Contribution [1] -
94:14contribution [1] -
94:19contributor [1] -
94:22control [1] - 48:15controversial [1] -
112:18conveyance [1] -
107:29convinced [1] - 9:2Cooney [28] - 4:5,
4:9, 4:13, 4:14, 4:18, 4:22, 4:27, 4:29, 5:5, 5:11, 5:16, 5:26, 5:29, 6:8, 6:9, 6:17, 6:21, 6:23, 6:28, 7:20, 7:21, 7:28, 8:4, 8:18, 8:22, 8:24, 8:25, 9:28
cooperate [1] - 13:25cope [1] - 58:25copies [2] - 12:6,
16:4copy [9] - 16:4,
75:27, 81:12, 82:25, 83:29, 84:2, 84:3, 84:7
Copyright [1] - 2:22core [2] - 16:8, 66:26Cork [10] - 14:17,
20:20, 28:4, 83:4, 83:6, 83:8, 83:9,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
5
83:24, 84:12, 85:28corporations [1] -
23:7correct [63] - 10:19,
10:25, 10:28, 11:2, 11:9, 11:15, 11:20, 12:13, 12:16, 14:8, 14:9, 17:9, 20:17, 20:20, 20:27, 21:27, 24:6, 24:26, 27:2, 30:15, 31:13, 31:18, 31:20, 32:4, 32:8, 34:25, 35:1, 35:11, 35:21, 35:24, 37:8, 38:18, 40:14, 40:23, 45:20, 48:18, 49:3, 50:8, 51:1, 52:19, 53:26, 56:19, 60:12, 60:17, 65:14, 68:1, 69:9, 70:1, 70:13, 70:14, 70:20, 71:1, 73:20, 73:21, 75:11, 78:12, 78:16, 79:22, 90:27, 98:9, 99:8, 106:2, 113:3
Correct [1] - 67:19correctly [1] - 52:20correspondence [3]
- 40:25, 101:26, 107:28
corruption [4] - 15:18, 15:19, 108:12, 108:14
cost [2] - 73:2, 74:25costs [2] - 24:11,
107:6Council [3] - 41:26,
41:28, 108:9Councils [1] - 23:8Counsel [2] - 2:5,
63:8counsel [1] - 6:16counselling [1] -
21:12country [6] - 21:28,
24:24, 30:24, 32:12, 44:6, 89:13
countrywide [1] - 14:8
county [1] - 92:9County [2] - 41:26,
41:28couple [5] - 40:27,
55:5, 98:23, 110:13, 111:20
course [8] - 6:13, 6:20, 8:5, 23:28, 41:24, 45:12, 89:22, 107:3
court [8] - 41:23,
43:14, 43:20, 47:6, 48:21, 69:10, 76:23, 110:24
Court [1] - 41:25courts [12] - 27:25,
27:28, 32:28, 38:17, 42:25, 43:5, 44:25, 46:29, 62:10, 62:15, 88:25
cover [3] - 83:13, 83:22, 83:23
covered [1] - 107:19create [1] - 8:15created [2] - 10:26,
57:26creation [1] - 75:1credibility [1] - 17:27crime [1] - 47:5criminal [3] - 28:13,
62:13, 100:13Criminal [1] - 47:14criminality [1] -
100:6critical [2] - 6:17,
6:21criticism [2] - 31:17,
31:23crudest [1] - 27:16cruelty [5] - 16:6,
16:7, 33:23, 47:16, 100:14
Cruelty [15] - 10:6, 10:22, 21:25, 21:28, 22:20, 22:22, 25:16, 25:18, 63:20, 63:21, 63:28, 64:8, 81:4, 83:24
Csso [1] - 2:10curiae [3] - 13:21,
63:8, 104:20current [3] - 103:11,
103:24, 103:26Curtis [1] - 30:27cut [1] - 91:25
Ddamage [1] - 5:22danger [6] - 48:15,
56:8, 60:2, 74:28, 104:19, 108:29
date [5] - 60:17, 81:2, 84:28, 98:10, 98:11
dated [5] - 98:6, 98:8, 99:19, 101:20
dates [1] - 99:27dating [2] - 14:9,
28:3David [2] - 6:15, 63:7
days [2] - 55:29, 56:2dead [2] - 56:27,
57:1deal [14] - 14:5,
22:15, 55:5, 57:12, 60:26, 61:3, 62:11, 63:28, 92:4, 97:9, 103:5, 111:17, 112:14, 112:24
Dealing [2] - 69:4, 71:2
dealing [6] - 19:6, 71:7, 87:23, 92:6, 101:14, 110:28
dealt [4] - 63:18, 74:14, 93:15, 102:8
death [1] - 58:24December [4] -
82:13, 83:20, 84:13, 85:23
decide [1] - 112:13decided [1] - 23:11decision [4] - 32:29,
38:24, 39:9, 43:15deemed [1] - 25:13defamatory [1] - 8:28defective [1] - 25:1defence [1] - 9:13defend [1] - 5:21define [2] - 37:9,
109:5defined [4] - 91:21,
108:18, 109:4, 109:12definite [1] - 74:15definitively [1] -
108:3delay [3] - 27:18,
82:14, 99:14delinquency [9] -
25:9, 30:4, 30:14, 47:1, 47:7, 47:8, 47:15, 88:25
delinquents [1] - 89:7
demonstrated [1] - 97:16
denied [1] - 9:22Department [11] -
2:9, 19:2, 41:2, 41:7, 61:22, 91:1, 100:22, 100:24, 100:29, 103:9, 104:7
depaul [2] - 23:2, 23:4
dependant [1] - 74:17
dependent [1] - 74:29
deprived [6] - 29:23, 30:24, 60:27, 73:4,
88:17, 89:13dereliction [1] - 9:2descendants [1] -
81:21describe [3] - 62:13,
66:19, 66:20described [6] -
19:26, 65:29, 70:5, 80:6, 93:1, 101:1
describes [1] - 101:2describing [1] -
59:22descriptions [1] -
20:1deserted [1] - 86:14deserve [1] - 89:2desirable [1] - 39:3despite [1] - 76:13destitute [1] - 46:3destitution [1] -
47:18destroyed [1] - 11:24detention [1] - 49:28determine [1] - 8:3determined [1] -
21:1determining [1] -
56:3develop [3] - 42:18,
53:14, 60:21developed [1] - 61:2developing [1] -
61:14development [1] -
104:1developments [1] -
61:1devoted [2] - 29:22,
88:15died [2] - 38:1, 56:3differ [1] - 67:16difference [3] -
68:22, 74:19, 110:22different [4] - 51:16,
56:17, 79:7, 84:26differently [2] -
62:11, 93:23differing [1] - 53:6difficult [8] - 14:12,
16:1, 19:17, 19:23, 28:27, 39:23, 54:14, 55:1
difficulties [13] - 19:12, 22:23, 23:28, 30:12, 31:8, 31:9, 47:19, 52:11, 57:3, 57:24, 58:22, 93:11, 103:28
difficulty [13] - 24:23, 31:13, 37:3,
45:25, 46:10, 53:21, 57:2, 57:9, 57:17, 77:21, 85:17, 92:21, 93:1
Dignam [1] - 2:9direct [1] - 106:7directed [1] - 85:10directly [7] - 16:25,
17:10, 17:29, 20:29, 44:2, 72:5, 109:11
director [2] - 99:5, 100:15
directory [31] - 16:3, 21:6, 22:6, 25:20, 26:13, 27:27, 32:24, 42:9, 42:11, 42:14, 42:23, 43:2, 44:10, 44:21, 47:3, 47:5, 64:17, 94:12, 95:26, 95:27, 98:1, 98:18, 98:28, 99:10, 99:19, 100:10, 105:24, 106:8, 107:13, 107:20, 109:5
dirt [1] - 20:12dirty [2] - 22:13disciplined [1] -
105:16disclosed [1] - 74:15discontinued [1] -
54:2discovered [1] - 17:1discovery [3] - 14:2,
75:25, 76:1discretionary [1] -
23:29discussed [3] -
44:19, 86:1, 107:2discussing [1] -
81:28discussion [3] -
52:6, 62:18, 70:5disease [1] - 42:16diseases [3] - 55:24,
55:25, 56:1disgraceful [1] - 9:19dismal [1] - 84:24dismiss [1] - 61:11dismissal [1] - 21:8disorderly [1] -
108:21disparaging [1] -
104:22disputed [1] - 112:19disrespect [1] -
59:14disrespected [1] -
59:16distinct [1] - 106:23distinction [3] -
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
6
43:10, 50:16, 100:12distinctions [1] -
100:9distinguish [1] -
76:16distracted [2] -
68:16, 102:26District [6] - 41:25,
43:15, 43:27, 100:23, 100:27, 101:19
district [3] - 74:3, 81:24, 88:1
divide [1] - 95:14divided [1] - 15:2divine [2] - 39:23,
42:4divisions [1] - 14:23doctor [4] - 26:5,
42:15, 78:10, 80:11doctors [1] - 99:25document [21] -
75:27, 76:2, 76:4, 76:11, 80:28, 81:2, 81:8, 81:10, 81:14, 81:29, 86:7, 98:2, 98:3, 98:7, 98:11, 98:20, 99:22, 100:21, 100:29, 101:1
documentation [5] - 11:7, 11:16, 14:1, 96:26, 101:24
documented [1] - 108:5
documents [4] - 14:4, 14:5, 79:2, 81:1
donation [3] - 80:1, 95:2, 97:6
donations [1] - 107:3done [15] - 5:22,
10:1, 11:1, 21:25, 26:9, 40:7, 42:19, 42:29, 79:19, 80:19, 85:15, 87:11, 89:2, 102:12
doubt [4] - 29:18, 81:21, 88:12, 90:6
doubtless [1] - 81:19down [8] - 5:25,
26:29, 55:23, 77:16, 83:3, 84:17, 106:21, 106:28
dragons [1] - 58:7dramatically [1] -
80:3draw [1] - 46:6drawn [3] - 61:7,
72:3, 74:9drew [1] - 74:22drive [1] - 16:23driven [1] - 42:21
driving [2] - 16:9, 39:8
dropped [1] - 48:3dropping [1] - 17:5drunken [1] - 108:21Dublin [20] - 1:7,
15:1, 15:6, 20:20, 28:5, 38:27, 39:3, 39:24, 50:19, 51:6, 58:2, 71:13, 72:6, 74:2, 81:24, 81:24, 85:27, 86:2, 88:1
due [2] - 58:23, 72:5During [3] - 6:26,
29:15, 88:8during [4] - 6:12,
6:19, 24:15, 74:14duties [1] - 9:3dynamics [1] - 19:17
Eearly [4] - 54:3,
73:23, 77:8, 87:5earn [1] - 22:8earning [3] - 22:8,
23:21, 44:19easier [2] - 46:3,
110:26easy [2] - 54:21,
89:22economic [10] -
23:17, 29:4, 52:14, 52:21, 57:5, 57:14, 57:25, 59:6, 59:13, 59:23
Education [8] - 2:9, 19:2, 41:3, 61:23, 91:2, 100:22, 100:24, 100:29
education [7] - 29:19, 31:18, 69:21, 88:13, 89:20, 89:29, 90:7
educator [1] - 32:7effect [1] - 92:27effectively [9] - 18:6,
24:27, 30:16, 39:13, 47:15, 60:13, 100:8, 105:22, 106:19
effort [4] - 32:17, 34:14, 80:21, 85:5
Egan [1] - 41:19either [12] - 16:11,
21:3, 22:28, 25:23, 27:15, 27:21, 27:22, 41:28, 58:16, 76:23, 102:13, 107:24
elicit [1] - 34:23eligible [3] - 23:13,
23:24elsewhere [2] -
63:13, 71:14emerge [2] - 18:21,
28:28emerged [1] - 102:2emergency [1] - 33:6emphasise [2] -
25:21, 26:1emphasised [1] -
25:26emphasises [1] -
75:13emphatically [1] -
89:3employ [2] - 60:16,
60:20employed [2] - 15:2,
61:5employees [1] - 15:8employment [2] -
20:1, 70:29enable [2] - 74:28,
112:26enacted [1] - 84:25enactment [1] -
84:28End [4] - 13:11,
62:28, 93:27, 110:8end [9] - 34:6, 53:29,
68:10, 68:18, 69:12, 71:11, 71:26, 92:15, 105:12
ended [1] - 38:27ending [4] - 82:13,
83:20, 84:12, 85:23enforcement [1] -
15:20engage [1] - 96:24engaged [4] - 13:29,
26:12, 91:19engaging [1] -
108:20England [4] - 26:27,
30:25, 56:23, 89:14English [1] - 77:2ensure [11] - 15:23,
25:22, 26:9, 27:11, 59:5, 64:20, 64:22, 65:10, 71:15, 100:12, 104:8
enter [1] - 31:15entirely [1] - 8:6entitled [2] - 95:28,
106:10entitlement [1] - 8:18entry [1] - 31:11epileptic [1] - 25:1escorts [1] - 62:5essential [1] - 15:9
essentially [4] - 28:12, 31:10, 52:29, 80:8
establish [1] - 82:6established [4] -
15:15, 51:7, 60:19, 92:3
establishing [1] - 51:14
establishment [4] - 14:6, 23:9, 87:13, 103:29
estimate [2] - 14:25, 14:27
event [1] - 94:19events [2] - 7:28,
95:16Evidence [2] - 1:13,
32:27evidence [52] - 1:30,
11:5, 12:11, 18:25, 22:7, 29:1, 40:4, 41:18, 42:8, 42:10, 42:12, 42:13, 43:4, 43:9, 43:12, 43:24, 44:9, 44:10, 44:24, 45:1, 52:17, 53:15, 53:27, 54:2, 65:19, 65:23, 68:10, 70:2, 78:16, 79:18, 90:3, 91:18, 92:2, 92:7, 92:19, 93:10, 93:13, 95:11, 96:22, 96:29, 101:9, 101:11, 103:8, 103:12, 103:15, 105:23, 105:26, 106:20, 107:11, 108:4, 111:4, 112:2
exact [1] - 19:17exactly [2] - 33:14,
109:4Examination [3] -
3:4, 62:28, 93:27examination [2] -
6:15, 6:26examined [2] -
34:21, 45:10Examined [4] - 3:9,
3:10, 13:16, 63:3example [8] - 21:8,
22:6, 24:21, 25:3, 26:7, 28:3, 62:4, 106:10
examples [21] - 22:2, 22:4, 25:5, 25:12, 26:4, 26:5, 27:2, 36:3, 39:5, 39:25, 50:8, 50:11, 52:25, 57:12, 58:21, 60:6, 78:4, 78:25, 78:26, 80:4,
80:15Except [1] - 50:2except [2] - 70:4,
94:17exceptional [1] -
33:7excess [1] - 103:18executing [1] -
107:23Executive [2] - 10:5,
10:16exercising [1] -
53:23exist [1] - 53:10existed [3] - 51:23,
52:29, 55:9existence [3] -
10:17, 77:10, 101:29existing [2] - 14:18,
81:22expectation [1] -
91:1expected [3] - 21:18,
42:18, 99:24expects [1] - 97:27expedient [1] - 80:9expense [1] - 107:29expenses [10] -
97:27, 107:4, 107:6, 107:9, 107:14, 107:17, 107:19, 107:21, 107:23, 108:4
experience [2] - 69:28, 92:14
experienced [1] - 89:21
expertise [3] - 44:4, 60:4, 61:8
experts [2] - 111:24, 112:9
explain [2] - 43:22, 61:9
explained [1] - 11:17explains [1] - 61:4explanation [3] -
11:22, 96:18, 101:24Exposure [1] - 48:14express [3] - 37:22,
109:27, 110:2expressed [2] -
100:25, 111:16expression [1] - 53:9extant [3] - 41:21,
48:27, 100:18extended [7] - 52:12,
52:19, 52:23, 52:24, 52:26, 78:5, 112:9
extension [1] - 89:19extent [4] - 29:23,
43:16, 55:15, 88:17
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
7
extra [1] - 80:9extracted [1] - 36:8extreme [1] - 43:9extremely [3] -
19:23, 47:21, 108:27eye [2] - 64:2, 88:28eyes [1] - 33:29eyes' [1] - 33:29
Ffaced [2] - 89:5,
93:12facilities [1] - 93:22facility [2] - 40:14,
51:7facing [1] - 99:4fact [36] - 14:9,
15:11, 24:11, 25:21, 26:25, 27:3, 31:12, 45:7, 47:5, 50:28, 54:10, 56:20, 61:11, 64:7, 66:11, 74:2, 74:10, 74:16, 75:10, 75:13, 76:11, 77:6, 81:24, 85:18, 89:4, 91:10, 91:15, 93:6, 95:4, 97:21, 97:26, 100:10, 103:3, 107:3, 111:5
factor [10] - 19:20, 38:24, 39:17, 45:5, 54:7, 56:3, 56:14, 57:15, 73:26, 73:27
factors [3] - 22:4, 29:5, 57:15
facts [1] - 44:13failed [2] - 82:3, 82:7failing [1] - 56:10failure [3] - 30:4,
84:24, 88:26fair [6] - 37:17,
60:14, 64:13, 69:16, 91:23, 112:20
fairness [2] - 68:4, 112:8
fait [2] - 50:22, 52:3familiar [6] - 65:18,
65:29, 66:8, 66:9, 66:21, 69:5
families [37] - 19:22, 22:28, 23:13, 23:26, 38:7, 38:23, 41:4, 52:22, 52:23, 53:6, 57:10, 57:12, 59:3, 65:10, 65:22, 70:6, 72:13, 72:16, 73:12, 73:20, 74:29, 75:1, 79:22, 79:27, 80:3, 86:15, 86:15, 86:24,
87:6, 87:7, 92:1, 92:16, 106:11, 111:3, 111:6, 111:16
family [40] - 16:12, 17:6, 21:3, 21:7, 22:22, 23:19, 24:5, 24:17, 25:28, 26:7, 32:6, 32:11, 39:14, 40:28, 41:8, 50:29, 51:18, 51:20, 51:28, 52:11, 52:12, 52:19, 52:24, 52:26, 54:12, 54:13, 54:23, 54:27, 64:27, 65:1, 69:24, 72:10, 74:23, 74:28, 75:12, 76:25, 78:5, 85:10, 90:18, 106:24
far [9] - 17:3, 44:25, 69:10, 69:12, 73:8, 73:14, 81:20, 85:1
farming [1] - 57:29father [5] - 23:20,
26:27, 27:6, 65:24, 108:22
fathers [2] - 22:14, 27:12
fault [3] - 30:2, 88:23, 89:4
fear [1] - 53:29feature [1] - 72:15fed [2] - 74:13, 74:23fee [3] - 73:10, 95:18feed [2] - 20:2, 20:8fell [1] - 33:16felt [2] - 26:17, 89:28female [1] - 62:5Ferryhouse [3] -
66:16, 66:18, 67:10few [7] - 12:22,
12:23, 13:29, 51:25, 88:29, 94:3, 100:18
fighting [1] - 32:11figure [2] - 36:9, 81:9figures [2] - 34:28,
72:9file [4] - 41:10, 95:1,
97:4, 101:12files [29] - 11:28,
11:29, 12:9, 12:21, 14:1, 14:7, 14:15, 14:16, 14:18, 19:28, 20:28, 22:26, 23:16, 34:21, 39:20, 40:27, 42:25, 43:3, 43:21, 43:24, 52:26, 65:24, 78:6, 78:27, 79:26, 93:13, 102:2, 102:9
fill [1] - 42:16filthy [1] - 19:27final [1] - 32:29
finally [2] - 86:22, 87:18
finance [1] - 97:14financial [4] - 12:26,
41:27, 97:15, 97:16findings [3] - 63:16,
71:9, 85:4fine [1] - 29:13finish [3] - 87:29,
105:9, 109:17finishing [1] - 104:15fire [3] - 11:18,
11:23, 101:21first [17] - 4:8, 11:6,
15:15, 15:29, 24:16, 24:18, 28:18, 36:23, 55:29, 56:2, 57:7, 71:9, 74:22, 81:24, 86:10, 109:20, 110:19
First [1] - 4:9firstly [3] - 14:4,
25:17, 56:16Firstly [4] - 14:22,
24:21, 34:26, 94:10fit [1] - 90:18fits [1] - 49:20five [12] - 12:24,
12:25, 15:2, 15:5, 17:2, 48:14, 72:17, 72:18, 72:20, 72:21, 73:5, 88:4
fixed [1] - 99:5flat [1] - 24:17flavour [1] - 47:28floors [1] - 80:7focus [3] - 21:11,
33:22, 102:16focussed [1] -
102:17folder [1] - 80:29folders [1] - 82:18follow [7] - 13:6,
32:12, 32:25, 69:7, 69:29, 70:4, 90:14
following [2] - 1:29, 109:28
Follows [5] - 4:1, 10:12, 13:16, 63:3, 94:6
follows [2] - 84:23, 88:7
food [2] - 72:11, 72:22
for...(interjection [1] - 49:24
force [1] - 39:8fore [1] - 39:11foremost [1] - 11:7forerunners [1] -
60:14
forgotten [1] - 36:14form [7] - 18:14,
30:4, 74:27, 88:25, 88:27, 97:20, 110:1
formal [7] - 4:11, 14:5, 20:6, 52:28, 53:15, 61:27, 97:19
format [1] - 85:23formation [1] - 11:25former [3] - 12:11,
12:17, 67:21forms [2] - 42:17,
74:29forty [1] - 45:14forty-one [1] - 45:14forward [2] - 107:27,
111:25Foster [1] - 76:13foster [19] - 29:26,
52:1, 58:15, 58:23, 58:29, 59:4, 59:5, 59:6, 60:7, 60:9, 76:15, 76:17, 76:17, 76:26, 77:6, 77:10, 79:8, 88:19, 103:15
Fosterage [1] - 52:28fosterage [5] - 52:28,
55:6, 55:9, 58:19, 60:1
fostered [4] - 53:6, 57:28, 58:26, 76:14
fostering [7] - 52:5, 53:13, 53:14, 54:14, 92:10, 103:12, 103:13
founded [1] - 44:7founding [2] - 18:20,
33:19four [4] - 12:28,
34:29, 54:12, 55:21Fourthly [1] - 40:19Fr [3] - 67:9, 67:27,
68:17frankly [1] - 102:3Fred [1] - 1:22free [1] - 8:5front [5] - 41:24,
81:8, 81:9, 83:13, 98:7
full [5] - 14:26, 15:7, 15:8, 58:5, 80:23
full-time [1] - 15:8fully [2] - 13:25, 56:6function [1] - 15:11functioned [1] -
108:15functioning [1] -
109:23functions [4] - 10:20,
10:27, 15:13, 26:22fund [3] - 18:6, 18:7,
107:24funding [2] - 73:19,
95:24fundraised [2] -
17:29, 18:5fundraising [1] -
12:26funds [2] - 73:2,
96:17furnish [1] - 106:9furnished [2] - 77:7,
94:21future [2] - 89:5,
89:16
GGageby [28] - 2:13,
3:9, 13:5, 13:13, 13:17, 13:19, 36:28, 37:15, 37:26, 38:12, 49:16, 49:22, 50:2, 50:6, 50:15, 54:28, 59:12, 59:17, 59:24, 59:28, 62:26, 62:28, 87:24, 88:2, 104:12, 104:25, 110:27, 111:9
gain [1] - 70:29gained [1] - 84:27gap [1] - 72:23Garda [2] - 43:9,
43:13Gardaí [2] - 16:29,
46:26gather [1] - 110:17gathered [1] - 44:8gathering [2] -
42:20, 44:10general [13] - 16:29,
17:4, 18:4, 36:16, 37:11, 42:13, 70:22, 70:24, 71:5, 76:20, 84:12, 91:24, 108:16
General's [1] - 82:24generally [2] - 42:12,
60:13generated [1] - 40:24generic [1] - 48:12genuinely [1] - 110:2Gilligan [36] - 1:13,
3:6, 10:4, 10:6, 10:9, 10:11, 10:14, 13:11, 13:16, 13:19, 36:29, 59:24, 59:28, 62:28, 63:3, 63:6, 82:16, 82:28, 83:28, 84:6, 84:20, 86:6, 93:27, 94:6, 102:24, 104:15, 104:27, 105:6, 105:11, 105:14,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
8
109:16, 110:5, 110:8, 110:15, 110:18, 113:24
girl [2] - 40:12, 89:20girls [1] - 76:21given [14] - 40:5,
48:1, 50:7, 58:21, 60:23, 67:20, 73:3, 73:19, 74:27, 78:2, 90:13, 96:18, 96:25, 103:9
Given [1] - 8:27glaring [2] - 74:20,
78:28glean [1] - 39:27glued [3] - 98:16,
99:2, 99:3godparents [3] -
111:3, 111:5, 111:15Golden [2] - 80:28,
81:5Goldenbridge [1] -
111:12goodness [1] -
102:21government [1] -
76:29Government [4] -
73:28, 79:4, 87:18, 104:6
Gp [1] - 21:22grant [2] - 4:14, 24:2granted [6] - 4:17,
4:20, 4:21, 8:14, 9:6, 9:19
grasp [1] - 73:28grateful [2] - 29:21,
88:15great [2] - 57:3,
61:22greater [1] - 74:26greatest [1] - 32:10grossly [1] - 8:28ground [1] - 76:15grounds [5] - 30:3,
45:9, 72:29, 74:26, 88:25
groups [1] - 61:28grow [1] - 74:24growing [2] - 100:2,
100:7guard [1] - 100:11guardians [1] - 74:16guess [1] - 49:7guidelines [1] -
95:26guilt [1] - 56:21guilty [1] - 108:22
Hhair [1] - 20:12half [1] - 72:21halfway [2] - 83:2,
84:17hand [2] - 73:27,
98:6hand's [1] - 69:11handbooks [1] -
11:12Handed [3] - 81:12,
84:8, 98:22hands [1] - 76:18happier [2] - 29:27,
88:19happy [3] - 7:9,
32:11, 62:10hard [3] - 43:23,
64:22, 102:26head [10] - 11:23,
12:7, 72:11, 72:20, 73:3, 73:3, 73:5, 96:1, 102:4, 106:14
headed [2] - 81:4, 81:15
heading [7] - 32:9, 74:5, 74:6, 83:3, 85:8, 88:4, 94:13
headquarters [1] - 11:27
health [1] - 23:10Health [4] - 44:6,
60:19, 76:22, 103:9healthier [2] - 29:27,
88:19hear [3] - 4:10, 5:9,
112:2heard [6] - 4:26,
41:18, 43:17, 53:1, 90:2
hearing [5] - 6:13, 7:1, 9:15, 111:23, 112:11
Hearing [3] - 1:3, 4:1, 113:26
hearings [3] - 7:11, 39:22, 112:3
heat [1] - 7:6held [1] - 27:13Held [1] - 1:6help [7] - 33:21,
37:7, 52:12, 64:28, 65:10, 65:28, 87:15
helped [1] - 61:19helpful [4] - 47:23,
47:27, 48:10, 98:21helpfully [1] - 13:22helping [1] - 91:14hence [1] - 81:21
Herbert [1] - 1:6hereby [1] - 1:28high [2] - 17:17,
56:24highest [1] - 28:6himself [2] - 38:16,
105:7hints [1] - 42:12historical [2] - 28:25,
34:20historically [1] - 55:9histories [1] - 65:7Hold [1] - 4:6hold [2] - 27:9, 31:11Home [1] - 32:8home [30] - 25:8,
29:17, 29:23, 30:12, 32:1, 32:8, 32:11, 34:12, 38:9, 41:11, 41:15, 46:4, 47:19, 51:14, 53:24, 61:10, 71:13, 72:24, 73:4, 74:11, 74:19, 74:27, 76:26, 80:6, 80:13, 88:10, 88:17, 89:22, 93:15
homes [10] - 29:26, 29:26, 29:28, 38:22, 76:15, 76:17, 88:19, 88:20, 92:9
honorary [4] - 33:2, 33:4, 82:23, 96:1
Honorary [8] - 82:12, 83:20, 84:12, 85:22, 105:25, 106:7, 106:16, 106:18
hope [3] - 13:27, 60:17, 104:17
hopefully [1] - 109:22
hopes [1] - 7:15hoping [1] - 40:11horrify [1] - 55:15hospital [3] - 26:6,
78:7, 89:11Hotel [1] - 1:6hours [1] - 8:29house [2] - 60:3,
92:8housekeeping [1] -
22:10houses [4] - 34:3,
34:6, 54:1housing [10] - 19:24,
19:26, 21:16, 21:23, 23:6, 23:7, 25:2, 25:10, 26:2, 73:19
Housing [1] - 19:26Hq [1] - 61:18huge [3] - 20:1, 52:8,
56:14
Iidea [2] - 46:24, 77:8ideal [2] - 25:18,
92:24identification [1] -
16:17identified [21] -
15:15, 15:24, 17:3, 24:28, 26:13, 31:1, 35:5, 36:18, 38:9, 52:20, 56:1, 56:4, 56:25, 57:19, 57:23, 73:18, 79:7, 90:28, 92:20, 95:21, 108:24
identifies [14] - 24:10, 27:19, 27:27, 32:24, 33:28, 38:3, 42:15, 47:9, 47:10, 55:20, 56:23, 80:14, 95:9, 106:8
identify [13] - 17:15, 25:5, 36:6, 36:15, 38:19, 38:22, 42:9, 53:13, 56:20, 70:27, 87:14, 92:24, 102:15
identifying [5] - 45:24, 57:20, 64:19, 85:17, 97:5
ignored [2] - 41:6, 47:10
Ii [1] - 107:4Iii [2] - 76:1, 80:29ill [1] - 79:16Ill [1] - 48:13illegitimacy [4] -
57:9, 57:24, 92:28, 93:18
illegitimate [27] - 22:16, 36:4, 36:5, 36:11, 38:4, 38:6, 39:12, 53:3, 53:19, 54:11, 55:14, 55:16, 55:22, 55:27, 56:10, 56:13, 56:18, 57:4, 57:22, 57:27, 87:8, 92:7, 92:15, 92:21, 92:26, 93:6, 93:14
immoral [1] - 108:29impact [1] - 30:18impair [1] - 8:8implement [1] - 85:6implemented [2] -
86:23, 87:18implication [1] -
108:15importance [1] -
67:13
important [7] - 23:6, 44:23, 45:5, 60:23, 104:2, 104:7, 106:9
impossible [2] - 29:26, 88:19
impression [2] - 31:28, 33:18
improve [1] - 75:21improved [1] - 80:3inability [2] - 73:1,
74:26inaction [1] - 9:13Inadequacy [1] -
74:6inadequacy [1] -
74:21inadequate [4] -
25:9, 25:11, 73:20, 77:11
inappropriate [1] - 7:8
inaudible [1] - 54:12incest [1] - 99:11incident [1] - 6:27incipient [1] - 22:20include [4] - 17:11,
17:12, 36:10, 48:29including [2] - 73:17,
108:20inclusion [1] - 99:24income [9] - 18:1,
18:5, 23:19, 24:5, 95:10, 95:15, 97:15, 97:20
inconvenience [1] - 7:14
increase [1] - 73:11increased [1] - 24:13increases [1] - 72:12incurred [2] - 107:7,
107:23indecent [1] - 99:11indeed [1] - 101:4independent [2] -
67:2, 96:24Independent [1] -
9:11independently [1] -
105:23Index [1] - 3:2indicate [17] - 17:21,
18:3, 20:10, 23:18, 23:22, 26:24, 28:17, 30:17, 31:26, 34:26, 39:17, 39:20, 40:1, 41:21, 43:22, 46:7, 51:25
indicated [8] - 5:5, 12:4, 17:17, 24:24, 66:6, 67:3, 69:23,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
9
72:9indicates [5] - 47:5,
55:11, 86:8, 93:21, 105:24
indicating [7] - 18:28, 28:11, 36:4, 40:18, 45:28, 78:17, 105:5
indication [9] - 16:18, 21:18, 28:25, 34:4, 36:2, 61:28, 64:16, 78:3, 111:14
indications [1] - 38:21
individual [3] - 27:9, 40:3, 104:6
individuals [1] - 58:28
induce [1] - 96:15industrial [52] -
13:24, 18:22, 18:23, 18:28, 24:12, 27:24, 28:1, 28:15, 29:8, 29:16, 30:3, 31:2, 31:14, 31:29, 34:5, 36:23, 36:24, 39:27, 39:28, 40:2, 40:5, 41:19, 45:18, 46:12, 46:18, 46:23, 49:7, 50:18, 50:27, 51:21, 53:24, 55:8, 58:14, 58:18, 62:6, 70:25, 70:28, 72:29, 79:11, 88:4, 88:9, 88:24, 89:6, 89:15, 94:26, 100:27, 101:6, 101:10, 101:16, 107:6, 107:7, 109:29
infant [3] - 34:7, 53:4, 53:5
infants [2] - 52:4, 56:26
influence [1] - 61:13influenced [3] - 25:7,
43:16, 61:1influences [3] -
29:24, 73:4, 88:17influencing [2] -
29:5, 61:15information [24] -
11:6, 11:10, 12:19, 14:3, 16:15, 19:14, 21:4, 33:25, 40:1, 42:4, 44:22, 45:23, 59:9, 62:19, 62:25, 66:25, 94:28, 96:24, 99:10, 99:13, 101:8, 101:15, 101:17, 102:7
informed [4] - 32:26, 33:5, 33:11, 101:9
initial [5] - 37:2, 37:6, 37:8, 37:9, 37:13
initiated [2] - 35:20, 37:21
initiating [1] - 5:20initiation [1] - 64:15injustice [1] - 89:8inmates [1] - 88:27innocent [1] - 44:15Inquire [1] - 1:2inquiries [6] - 12:2,
12:4, 44:16, 72:7, 99:12, 101:18
Inquiry [3] - 1:18, 8:16, 90:17
inquiry [2] - 73:24, 101:19
insert [1] - 99:15inserted [1] - 99:17inside [3] - 5:22,
60:3, 93:2insight [2] - 35:28,
109:22insisting [1] - 26:5insofar [1] - 67:12inspect [1] - 33:12inspecting [1] -
90:14inspections [5] -
103:16, 103:19, 103:22, 104:4, 104:8
inspector [2] - 12:25, 107:27
Inspector [60] - 14:28, 15:2, 16:11, 16:18, 17:1, 17:6, 17:10, 17:19, 19:13, 20:11, 20:28, 21:7, 21:20, 22:29, 25:22, 26:9, 27:5, 32:21, 32:25, 33:1, 33:26, 34:4, 36:24, 37:3, 37:4, 38:15, 40:10, 40:15, 41:8, 41:13, 41:19, 42:18, 43:3, 43:11, 44:14, 44:17, 44:28, 47:6, 51:26, 65:29, 66:14, 66:21, 66:27, 69:18, 78:21, 80:5, 94:17, 94:19, 95:2, 95:24, 96:15, 97:6, 97:26, 99:10, 100:8, 100:11, 100:25, 106:9, 106:13, 106:19
Inspector's [9] - 11:12, 14:6, 16:3, 41:14, 94:12, 98:1, 98:28, 99:5, 106:8
inspectorate [2] - 103:17, 104:1
inspectors [1] - 14:24
Inspectors [39] - 15:5, 16:24, 17:13, 17:22, 18:7, 20:21, 20:29, 21:10, 21:27, 24:1, 27:11, 34:1, 39:26, 40:1, 40:28, 41:3, 42:23, 50:12, 60:6, 60:21, 60:29, 61:16, 63:21, 63:24, 64:1, 65:16, 67:3, 69:5, 69:28, 78:27, 90:29, 95:6, 96:10, 101:9, 101:14, 105:15, 107:5, 109:8
instance [4] - 20:9, 38:26, 56:26, 89:8
instances [3] - 65:6, 74:15, 112:9
instead [2] - 73:10, 80:11
instigate [1] - 106:25instigated [1] - 25:7institution [6] -
41:12, 53:25, 55:2, 61:10, 95:3, 96:13
institutions [17] - 18:12, 29:25, 53:29, 63:12, 75:15, 76:19, 86:25, 87:27, 88:18, 88:28, 92:23, 92:26, 93:3, 95:13, 95:20, 104:6, 108:5
Instructed [4] - 2:6, 2:10, 2:14, 2:17
instructed [3] - 6:4, 6:8, 113:14
instructions [3] - 94:17, 94:21, 112:10
insufficient [4] - 20:12, 71:15, 72:25, 74:12
insuperable [1] - 89:23
intention [2] - 32:26, 112:2
interest [2] - 14:21, 111:16
interested [2] - 35:6, 77:8
interesting [1] - 30:20
interests [1] - 44:1interface [1] - 21:21Interjection [1] -
83:17interpret [1] - 108:17
interpretation [1] - 74:1
interpreted [1] - 6:21interrupt [1] - 71:19interrupted [2] -
6:15, 59:18intervene [3] - 20:22,
72:4, 72:25intervention [3] -
6:20, 7:6, 24:3introduced [1] -
88:29introduction [3] -
29:27, 35:12, 88:20investigate [2] -
16:12, 100:3investigated [3] -
8:12, 100:13, 100:28investigating [1] -
99:23investigation [2] -
30:25, 89:13Investigation [1] -
2:3invite [1] - 19:10inviting [2] - 28:13,
105:10involve [2] - 112:25involved [11] - 22:28,
22:29, 23:1, 23:15, 38:4, 41:26, 60:7, 63:25, 77:24, 91:14, 102:28
involvement [2] - 47:11, 62:15
involving [1] - 48:16Ireland [16] - 10:23,
14:14, 14:28, 18:18, 18:19, 29:4, 56:24, 60:29, 61:4, 61:16, 75:23, 76:8, 76:13, 77:10, 103:13, 108:18
Irish [6] - 9:11, 10:5, 15:12, 80:28, 81:5, 83:24
irony [1] - 81:27is...(interjection [1] -
106:29Ispcc [34] - 10:16,
10:20, 10:26, 11:25, 13:28, 14:14, 16:24, 35:20, 37:22, 46:14, 60:13, 61:21, 63:16, 65:9, 69:6, 71:3, 71:10, 75:23, 75:24, 76:1, 76:8, 77:8, 77:24, 79:3, 81:1, 86:17, 96:10, 100:26, 101:1, 101:3, 101:5, 103:21, 109:20, 110:1
Ispcc/nspcc [4] - 23:14, 62:2, 90:29, 91:6
issue [33] - 7:9, 8:15, 8:16, 20:2, 22:17, 24:7, 26:19, 28:24, 34:7, 36:21, 38:5, 38:6, 38:11, 41:6, 51:12, 54:5, 54:19, 56:4, 56:25, 57:7, 57:8, 57:28, 61:29, 79:8, 79:9, 79:10, 79:14, 79:19, 83:9, 93:21, 94:27, 96:7, 96:27
issues [16] - 17:28, 24:29, 25:4, 38:8, 50:23, 50:24, 52:20, 61:12, 62:2, 62:4, 62:18, 66:26, 67:5, 79:7, 93:17, 109:11
itself [5] - 20:20, 64:6, 64:27, 80:1, 91:11
JJanuary [3] - 10:17,
10:26, 98:8jaundiced [1] - 64:2jigsaw [1] - 68:6job [4] - 21:15, 26:2,
106:1, 106:3John [1] - 6:17journalist [1] - 6:17Jubilee [2] - 80:28,
81:5Judge [1] - 37:8judge [2] - 16:1,
17:27judgment [2] - 12:19,
19:17June [3] - 1:11, 4:1,
7:2justice [1] - 9:23Justice [10] - 1:17,
4:5, 42:5, 43:16, 43:22, 43:27, 47:14, 100:23, 100:27, 101:19
justices [1] - 41:24juvenile [7] - 25:9,
30:4, 30:14, 47:1, 47:7, 47:8, 88:25
Kkeen [1] - 31:24keep [5] - 26:15,
39:6, 69:23, 73:4,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
10
74:13Kennedy [11] - 61:26,
85:4, 86:13, 100:19, 100:22, 100:23, 100:27, 101:18, 101:19, 102:27, 102:28
kept [2] - 65:22, 74:28
Kerry [1] - 28:6key [7] - 15:24,
16:21, 38:24, 56:2, 73:26, 73:27, 109:6
Kildare [1] - 71:14kind [3] - 11:12,
71:5, 90:12kindred [1] - 86:17King [2] - 81:10,
81:11Kingdom [1] - 26:24kings [1] - 76:14knowledge [11] -
39:26, 49:11, 60:5, 61:8, 70:22, 90:26, 91:23, 99:11, 101:3, 101:4, 103:26
knowledgeable [1] - 22:25
known [8] - 21:26, 21:28, 66:28, 70:9, 92:9, 97:28, 99:15
Llabel [1] - 30:17labelling [1] - 31:5labour [1] - 60:3lack [3] - 24:7, 47:10,
91:3laid [1] - 42:5Lankford [11] - 5:18,
6:7, 6:8, 6:14, 6:18, 6:26, 7:5, 7:13, 8:1, 8:23, 9:20
large [10] - 13:22, 20:13, 29:15, 29:23, 54:10, 72:3, 74:10, 76:21, 88:8, 88:17
last [15] - 9:12, 12:24, 12:28, 13:29, 28:18, 33:26, 33:27, 66:13, 74:9, 81:19, 92:4, 111:22, 111:26, 113:14
Last [1] - 74:22late [3] - 19:5, 23:17,
87:4Law [2] - 52:29, 55:10law [2] - 9:18, 48:12lawful [1] - 15:22
laws [2] - 15:20, 92:12
lawyers [1] - 9:21lead [1] - 90:24learn [1] - 87:21least [3] - 4:18,
43:29, 54:15leave [3] - 5:3, 89:11,
110:17leaves [1] - 72:13leaving [3] - 70:28,
88:28, 91:9legacies [1] - 95:17legal [20] - 4:15,
4:18, 4:20, 4:21, 4:25, 4:29, 5:19, 5:21, 7:23, 7:25, 7:27, 8:5, 8:10, 8:14, 8:27, 9:5, 9:6, 9:16, 9:19, 9:20
Legion [2] - 23:3, 23:5
legislation [4] - 16:23, 45:27, 85:18
legislative [1] - 84:27
legislators [1] - 84:24
legitimate [5] - 53:8, 53:21, 55:18, 55:28, 93:5
Leicester [1] - 27:5lend [1] - 84:6less [7] - 53:23,
71:16, 72:27, 80:22, 85:1, 109:1
letter [4] - 41:29, 76:5, 90:17, 97:4
level [5] - 25:7, 61:15, 97:23, 97:25, 104:7
levels [4] - 24:23, 28:11, 29:2, 86:11
liable [2] - 21:8, 22:22
liaison [1] - 12:11licence [3] - 110:27,
111:10, 111:15licensing [1] - 77:18lie [1] - 89:5life [2] - 29:27, 88:20light [1] - 7:24likely [8] - 35:4,
43:29, 47:14, 47:16, 53:23, 57:27, 92:15, 112:18
Limerick [1] - 106:17limitation [1] - 11:16limitations [1] -
11:20limited [3] - 52:25,
53:18, 54:24line [7] - 17:5, 20:6,
20:7, 72:6, 72:13, 87:3, 106:19
Listen [1] - 69:1live [2] - 28:24,
111:15lived [1] - 19:22Liverpool [1] - 27:5lives [1] - 30:19living [6] - 19:29,
20:8, 20:13, 52:1, 52:22, 79:28
loaned [1] - 2:23lobbying [2] - 25:4,
25:14local [7] - 14:23,
20:23, 21:21, 21:22, 65:17, 86:11, 99:13
locate [1] - 14:3location [1] - 38:19locked [1] - 64:9loco [1] - 52:15London [5] - 10:22,
11:26, 12:2, 12:4, 27:5
look [15] - 24:26, 26:18, 27:6, 35:15, 35:17, 36:19, 36:23, 47:23, 48:8, 55:23, 62:24, 68:12, 85:2, 91:26, 98:18
looked [6] - 24:1, 28:2, 58:12, 64:2, 79:17, 94:28
looking [29] - 9:22, 13:23, 14:4, 17:25, 22:7, 22:17, 23:17, 28:8, 35:7, 35:8, 38:13, 38:25, 41:13, 43:25, 48:8, 48:11, 49:4, 51:18, 54:8, 61:6, 61:21, 65:5, 75:20, 83:15, 83:16, 84:19, 101:27, 109:6, 111:27
lost [1] - 69:4low [8] - 20:8, 24:7,
28:11, 47:21, 48:25, 73:18, 108:26, 108:27
Lowe [9] - 1:22, 37:28, 54:6, 54:23, 105:3, 105:10, 108:7, 108:8, 109:14
lucrative [1] - 89:17
MMacmahon [16] -
2:5, 7:19, 10:1, 10:2,
10:14, 13:1, 13:9, 84:4, 84:5, 94:1, 94:3, 94:10, 103:2, 103:3, 103:7, 104:9
main [5] - 14:20, 25:17, 39:8, 46:14, 46:15
maintain [5] - 15:21, 29:17, 32:11, 74:26, 88:10
maintained [1] - 18:12
maintenance [1] - 94:18
Majesty [2] - 81:10, 81:11
majority [3] - 33:6, 50:13, 77:19
Malone [2] - 2:22, 2:24
Man [8] - 21:25, 21:28, 22:20, 22:22, 25:16, 25:18, 63:28, 64:8
man [4] - 22:7, 22:9, 72:18
management [2] - 106:7, 106:26
manager [1] - 66:12managing [2] -
106:19, 106:28manner [1] - 2:23manners [1] - 93:4March [1] - 10:27margin [1] - 101:22Marian [1] - 1:21Mary [2] - 23:3, 23:5material [38] - 5:22,
11:21, 11:23, 11:24, 11:26, 12:1, 12:5, 15:4, 16:2, 17:11, 18:22, 19:15, 22:3, 35:16, 36:14, 36:19, 38:18, 41:16, 42:7, 42:20, 50:22, 53:11, 53:15, 53:27, 57:6, 58:13, 59:10, 59:11, 62:20, 62:23, 66:6, 67:3, 70:2, 78:2, 91:18, 92:2, 93:20, 101:29
materials [4] - 13:23, 16:10, 61:27, 62:22
matter [21] - 7:3, 7:15, 8:6, 8:13, 8:23, 67:13, 67:28, 69:12, 71:5, 75:5, 79:20, 82:27, 87:23, 97:22, 100:28, 102:8, 104:19, 110:19,
111:17, 113:14, 113:19
matters [3] - 61:24, 110:13, 112:19
maximum [2] - 71:15, 72:16
Maxwell [1] - 6:5Maynooth [7] - 28:8,
34:22, 36:2, 36:13, 58:13, 71:21, 79:25
Mayo [2] - 14:16, 106:17
Mcgrath [44] - 2:16, 3:10, 6:16, 13:5, 63:1, 63:4, 63:6, 63:7, 67:15, 67:16, 67:20, 68:4, 68:9, 68:15, 68:21, 68:27, 69:2, 69:3, 76:6, 82:6, 82:15, 82:17, 82:23, 82:28, 83:1, 83:8, 83:15, 83:16, 83:19, 84:9, 84:10, 84:23, 86:5, 86:8, 93:24, 93:27, 110:11, 110:19, 111:20, 112:7, 113:3, 113:5, 113:10, 113:21
Mcgrath's [1] - 6:26Mchugh [1] - 2:6mean [42] - 18:3,
20:3, 21:29, 22:6, 22:26, 25:16, 33:10, 33:23, 36:2, 37:1, 37:4, 38:25, 39:1, 40:26, 44:10, 46:27, 47:16, 52:9, 52:10, 54:14, 58:5, 58:6, 67:12, 67:29, 68:3, 70:1, 73:24, 73:29, 75:11, 78:3, 79:10, 86:26, 91:15, 92:7, 95:8, 96:20, 97:11, 100:8, 102:3, 103:23, 108:3, 113:5
meaning [1] - 44:13means [5] - 22:12,
44:18, 51:20, 59:13, 75:7
measure [1] - 5:20measures [1] - 18:2mechanism [1] -
92:24mechanisms [1] -
97:13Medical [1] - 23:6medical [10] - 21:15,
21:22, 26:3, 42:14, 42:15, 42:17, 50:20, 78:7, 78:13, 99:24
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
11
medically [1] - 26:10member [2] - 12:27,
109:29Members [1] - 2:1members [5] - 12:14,
12:28, 29:20, 88:14, 90:7
membership [2] - 95:17, 95:18
memo [3] - 76:5, 76:7, 99:27
memory [4] - 32:5, 33:14, 51:11, 67:24
Men [2] - 63:20, 63:21
mentally [1] - 25:1mention [7] - 28:21,
63:20, 63:22, 66:14, 77:23, 101:12, 107:17
mentioned [11] - 6:28, 21:6, 28:26, 31:12, 57:28, 79:20, 81:24, 87:25, 92:5, 110:27, 111:4
mentions [1] - 42:23Mercy [1] - 111:11Merrion [2] - 51:14,
51:15met [1] - 113:16method [1] - 71:7methods [1] - 74:19metropolitan [1] -
81:24mid [1] - 19:5mid-1930's [1] -
14:22might [30] - 6:20,
16:10, 17:5, 22:3, 22:22, 23:13, 23:24, 25:16, 27:15, 37:2, 37:29, 38:27, 39:17, 39:25, 40:21, 42:8, 43:8, 43:16, 46:27, 49:4, 60:2, 61:19, 64:26, 65:1, 66:9, 78:14, 98:17, 101:26, 104:27, 111:17
mind [6] - 36:9, 55:12, 66:19, 80:18, 80:19, 112:20
minds [3] - 31:28, 112:29, 113:2
minimum [1] - 72:21Minister [1] - 40:22minor [2] - 35:9,
108:23minority [1] - 89:3minute [3] - 4:6,
29:11, 110:17miscarriage [1] -
9:23mission [2] - 15:24,
16:8mistaken [1] - 31:28moderate [1] - 72:20modern [5] - 15:28,
17:25, 22:18, 33:17, 76:14
modest [1] - 24:18Molesworth [3] -
11:18, 12:7, 101:21moment [10] - 5:5,
5:6, 5:7, 5:26, 7:6, 12:9, 68:16, 69:4, 79:20, 80:25
money [14] - 18:5, 20:7, 22:8, 24:4, 26:29, 52:16, 58:28, 60:10, 73:11, 79:21, 87:6, 94:17, 95:19
monies [1] - 94:26monitored [1] -
105:16monitoring [3] -
105:19, 105:27, 106:5month [1] - 13:29Moral [1] - 48:15moral [4] - 5:21,
108:24, 108:28, 109:12
morals [4] - 15:18, 15:19, 108:12, 108:14
morning [6] - 4:4, 6:12, 10:8, 13:19, 13:20, 63:21
mortality [9] - 34:7, 55:14, 55:16, 55:21, 55:24, 55:27, 56:14, 56:22
mortally [1] - 56:17most [6] - 16:16,
47:13, 55:19, 63:27, 109:7, 112:7
mother [4] - 39:12, 53:3, 56:4, 57:18
mother's [1] - 39:14mothers [13] - 22:16,
36:4, 36:10, 50:19, 51:7, 51:8, 56:10, 56:13, 56:21, 57:10, 57:22, 93:12, 93:14
move [5] - 26:17, 40:11, 40:19, 51:16, 85:21
movement [2] - 50:9, 86:28
movers [1] - 46:15Moving [1] - 84:10moving [1] - 47:17must [15] - 2:23,
26:15, 29:22, 32:17, 34:14, 74:23, 75:1, 78:21, 84:18, 84:24, 84:26, 88:16, 94:20, 105:24, 107:27
Nname [3] - 43:26,
63:6, 98:7named [1] - 1:31namely [1] - 4:23names [2] - 94:22,
97:27narrative [1] - 56:5national [1] - 86:11National [3] - 10:21,
26:23, 81:4natural [2] - 32:6,
53:24nature [6] - 16:19,
41:15, 44:16, 78:15, 109:7, 112:11
near [1] - 38:22nearest [1] - 98:11nearly [1] - 101:28necessarily [3] -
43:8, 102:12, 102:18necessary [7] -
29:18, 72:21, 72:27, 76:26, 80:27, 88:11, 112:12
necessity [1] - 72:27need [22] - 4:17,
4:19, 4:20, 5:6, 5:20, 29:6, 30:29, 42:10, 44:21, 44:29, 50:21, 53:12, 53:13, 56:12, 57:12, 57:20, 64:16, 79:14, 86:15, 100:3, 102:14, 103:21
needed [7] - 32:25, 42:10, 64:28, 78:13, 78:22, 79:15, 79:16
needs [5] - 57:13, 71:16, 85:15, 86:6
neglect [6] - 19:18, 19:19, 20:10, 29:3, 42:16, 49:1
neglected [2] - 60:8, 76:13
neighbour [1] - 17:9network [1] - 27:3networking [1] -
27:10never [4] - 66:1,
66:5, 66:19, 102:4Nevertheless [2] -
29:21, 88:15new [1] - 76:29
newspaper [1] - 9:11next [7] - 10:2,
25:27, 40:11, 71:27, 77:1, 86:2, 105:2
night [2] - 9:12, 66:13
nine [1] - 72:21nominating [1] -
76:22non [1] - 55:22non-illegitimate [1] -
55:22none [1] - 107:11normal [3] - 49:16,
49:22, 49:23Normal [1] - 49:19normative [3] -
49:10, 49:19, 49:20Normative [1] - 49:16not...(interjection [1]
- 46:5Note [2] - 98:28, 99:5note [7] - 8:21,
42:27, 55:17, 98:14, 98:15, 99:2, 99:3
noted [6] - 31:22, 37:18, 50:3, 52:9, 55:15, 57:29
notes [3] - 1:30, 56:26, 78:6
Nothing [1] - 8:2nothing [12] - 8:3,
8:7, 8:11, 8:17, 39:19, 41:20, 44:13, 72:26, 89:2, 90:23, 93:20
notice [2] - 41:26, 45:7
notifying [1] - 95:29notwithstanding [1]
- 6:29nourishment [1] -
72:26nowhere [1] - 78:23Nspcc [14] - 11:1,
11:27, 15:12, 15:15, 16:24, 19:13, 20:6, 27:11, 45:24, 46:10, 51:12, 57:20, 62:7, 96:10
Nspcc/ispcc [5] - 18:9, 44:3, 45:2, 53:13, 92:20
Nui [2] - 34:22, 58:13number [40] - 11:13,
11:15, 12:21, 14:1, 17:28, 19:9, 20:2, 20:3, 20:13, 24:1, 24:6, 24:21, 26:22, 27:2, 29:15, 39:22, 46:23, 49:6, 54:8,
54:9, 54:10, 54:17, 57:1, 64:14, 71:4, 72:3, 72:7, 72:16, 73:16, 74:15, 74:20, 76:2, 79:6, 80:14, 80:15, 88:8, 103:18, 103:24, 108:19, 108:27
numbers [3] - 12:22, 46:17, 74:10
nuns [1] - 76:21nurse [1] - 53:5nursed [1] - 53:5nurseries [2] - 57:20,
57:21nutrition [1] - 72:10nutritional [1] -
71:16nutshell [1] - 15:16Nírafertaigh [1] -
61:17
OO'clerigh [3] -
104:26, 104:27, 105:4O'donoghue [2] -
104:25, 105:5O'reilly [3] - 67:9,
67:27, 68:17O'sullivan [8] - 5:8,
5:9, 5:17, 6:2, 6:3, 6:12, 8:1, 8:22
object [1] - 43:18objection [2] - 41:29,
42:1objective [2] - 56:16,
108:11objectives [1] -
15:23objects [1] - 15:22obligations [1] -
112:21obliged [3] - 21:2,
26:15, 43:19obscures [1] - 37:29observation [1] -
84:29obtain [1] - 25:27obtained [2] - 12:7,
15:23obvious [2] - 52:6,
66:15obviously [11] -
20:11, 22:20, 32:27, 37:17, 46:5, 52:10, 57:2, 57:17, 61:12, 61:26, 112:17
Obviously [2] - 43:7, 59:5
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
12
occasion [1] - 68:6occasionally [3] -
26:26, 40:24, 41:19occasions [5] -
63:24, 65:12, 71:4, 73:16, 79:26
occur [1] - 104:8occurred [3] - 11:18,
25:6, 71:4occurs [2] - 25:22,
89:9odd [1] - 90:16offence [5] - 6:23,
99:11, 100:13, 108:22offences [5] - 99:1,
99:7, 99:23, 100:1, 108:29
office [14] - 11:19, 11:23, 12:7, 32:25, 33:1, 33:5, 33:9, 33:10, 94:20, 96:1, 102:4, 105:16, 106:14, 107:28
officer [2] - 20:24, 21:23
Officer [2] - 10:5, 10:16
officers [3] - 23:7, 89:21, 109:9
officials [2] - 17:1often [9] - 22:5, 38:1,
38:8, 54:26, 58:23, 69:17, 73:2, 74:23, 79:15
Oireachtas [1] - 84:29
old [1] - 14:15older [3] - 52:5, 55:1,
98:4omission [1] - 78:28omit [1] - 85:4once [5] - 54:13,
69:7, 77:19, 94:20, 106:3
Once [1] - 9:25one [86] - 12:25,
18:10, 20:4, 20:5, 20:15, 21:29, 23:28, 26:6, 26:26, 27:3, 27:8, 28:27, 29:1, 29:10, 29:11, 31:8, 31:9, 33:27, 33:28, 34:28, 36:2, 38:5, 39:1, 39:2, 39:10, 39:16, 40:8, 40:27, 41:1, 41:18, 42:11, 45:14, 45:24, 46:14, 46:15, 47:8, 48:14, 50:23, 50:24, 51:3, 51:20, 52:9, 52:10,
54:18, 54:19, 55:21, 58:20, 59:29, 60:22, 61:12, 61:17, 61:20, 66:26, 73:17, 75:22, 75:24, 75:26, 75:27, 76:4, 76:5, 76:27, 80:7, 82:18, 87:24, 89:18, 90:17, 92:4, 94:29, 95:28, 96:12, 97:11, 97:29, 98:13, 100:8, 100:21, 100:26, 101:11, 103:4, 105:13, 108:8, 108:28, 109:5, 110:26
One [9] - 20:21, 24:10, 49:4, 59:29, 84:26, 89:5, 98:23, 111:22, 112:14
one's...reading [1] - 76:28
one-paged [3] - 75:27, 76:4, 76:5
onus [2] - 106:12, 106:14
onwards [1] - 14:13open [2] - 89:17,
98:17opened [1] - 88:2operate [1] - 76:28operated [2] - 39:17,
105:22operating [1] - 14:24opinion [2] - 28:29,
73:26opportunities [2] -
55:7, 60:21opportunity [3] -
13:26, 109:19, 109:21opposed [5] - 35:12,
52:4, 53:24, 100:14, 102:8
option [4] - 26:17, 52:6, 53:13, 54:14
options [4] - 33:17, 34:1, 52:7, 54:24
oral [1] - 43:4orally [1] - 42:29order [3] - 7:22,
76:23, 110:24Order [2] - 42:5,
69:11orders [3] - 14:2,
76:18, 94:18Orders [4] - 29:22,
35:28, 76:22, 88:15ordinary [3] - 30:5,
72:10, 88:26Organisation [1] -
113:16organisation [10] -
10:17, 10:23, 15:21, 16:9, 17:26, 33:19, 44:5, 46:21, 61:7, 80:20
organise [3] - 21:14, 21:15, 51:27
organised [1] - 14:23original [3] - 11:12,
98:20, 108:9originally [1] - 26:22orphaned [1] - 53:19otherwise [1] - 34:6ourselves [1] - 96:21outdated [1] - 76:29outgoings [1] -
23:21outlined [2] - 62:1,
77:11outrage [2] - 99:25,
99:26outside [6] - 24:22,
47:15, 55:7, 58:9, 60:3, 93:2
overall [6] - 12:24, 46:24, 47:21, 48:2, 69:26, 78:28
overcrowded [1] - 25:2
overt [1] - 47:16overview [1] - 14:20owing [3] - 74:10,
74:16, 93:5own [16] - 5:19,
29:26, 30:2, 30:16, 32:22, 44:1, 44:6, 57:10, 66:18, 79:25, 88:18, 88:23, 89:16, 96:23, 106:27
owner [2] - 98:6, 98:7
PPadraig [2] - 6:7,
6:14Page [2] - 48:9,
71:24page [27] - 27:16,
37:18, 45:7, 48:9, 54:8, 63:15, 63:19, 71:9, 71:11, 71:21, 71:26, 71:27, 74:5, 76:11, 81:14, 81:17, 83:3, 83:22, 84:10, 86:10, 88:4, 94:13, 94:15, 98:14, 98:17, 98:26, 99:4
paged [3] - 75:27, 76:4, 76:5
paginated [1] - 85:25
Paid [1] - 48:15paid [5] - 69:14,
73:12, 95:6, 95:19, 107:9
pains [3] - 25:21, 28:17, 44:27
palate [1] - 26:8panel [1] - 76:17paper [1] - 81:11papers [9] - 12:2,
12:3, 39:28, 41:21, 66:13, 66:14, 75:22, 77:7, 100:18
paragraph [8] - 30:15, 30:20, 32:9, 71:10, 81:17, 83:2, 84:17, 86:9
paragraphs [1] - 42:11
paramount [1] - 15:29
parent [20] - 26:26, 27:15, 30:2, 37:1, 38:1, 38:5, 38:6, 38:8, 43:17, 43:20, 45:26, 46:4, 49:1, 58:24, 74:13, 87:7, 108:20
parent's [1] - 33:29parental [1] - 47:10parentis [1] - 52:15Parents [1] - 37:21parents [54] - 17:13,
19:1, 19:3, 19:29, 21:4, 21:17, 21:19, 25:23, 27:29, 28:12, 29:16, 33:21, 34:4, 35:20, 35:27, 36:10, 36:17, 37:12, 37:28, 40:20, 40:21, 41:11, 43:17, 43:19, 43:21, 43:22, 45:4, 45:18, 46:4, 48:29, 50:11, 50:26, 51:28, 53:9, 53:22, 53:27, 54:5, 58:15, 58:29, 60:9, 65:8, 72:28, 73:3, 74:16, 74:25, 78:20, 79:10, 79:16, 88:9, 88:24, 89:9, 92:22
Park [1] - 1:6part [10] - 17:16,
34:20, 35:2, 43:15, 43:26, 59:5, 80:21, 103:10, 103:19, 111:22
partially [3] - 11:17, 46:1
particular [25] - 9:15, 27:8, 39:28, 40:18, 47:23, 57:11, 57:21,
60:4, 61:24, 65:2, 65:4, 66:2, 66:28, 70:19, 71:2, 76:2, 78:20, 82:11, 90:26, 92:5, 93:9, 97:21, 99:27, 110:28, 111:17
particularly [5] - 26:27, 39:23, 54:29, 55:12, 74:20
partisan [1] - 17:23parts [1] - 46:8party [2] - 2:24,
107:24passage [1] - 71:26passing [4] - 35:10,
87:25, 97:25, 110:27past [4] - 72:7,
76:14, 85:29, 95:5patron [1] - 18:21patrons [2] - 18:15,
18:16Paul [5] - 1:13, 10:4,
10:11, 13:16, 94:6pause [3] - 30:10,
31:21, 32:21pay [5] - 27:10, 31:2,
53:7, 58:28, 89:16payable [1] - 107:29paying [3] - 22:11,
59:2, 73:10payment [5] - 24:17,
71:15, 73:18, 96:11, 97:24
payments [9] - 58:27, 71:29, 86:28, 95:12, 95:29, 96:3, 96:6, 97:18, 108:4
peculiar [1] - 72:15pecuniary [1] - 95:5pence [1] - 72:21pending [1] - 9:5pension [1] - 72:23pensions [1] - 74:12people [35] - 14:26,
15:7, 17:18, 17:22, 20:8, 20:13, 20:14, 22:19, 22:27, 24:22, 24:24, 30:18, 31:28, 34:21, 56:7, 56:20, 61:23, 63:11, 63:18, 63:23, 63:27, 64:20, 65:13, 66:19, 68:4, 70:22, 79:24, 87:26, 90:11, 105:28, 109:26, 109:28, 111:4, 111:29, 112:28
per [10] - 36:7, 46:27, 55:2, 55:27, 55:28, 71:15, 72:20, 78:17, 106:27
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
13
percent [1] - 34:29percentage [8] -
36:16, 36:19, 37:1, 37:5, 46:14, 46:25, 88:27, 108:27
percentages [6] - 28:7, 36:7, 47:20, 47:21, 48:2
perception [5] - 63:27, 64:8, 64:19, 64:20, 70:23
performed [2] - 10:21, 11:8
perhaps [27] - 11:24, 11:26, 15:1, 20:14, 21:14, 23:3, 29:5, 39:11, 39:14, 43:14, 48:24, 52:3, 57:27, 58:9, 60:23, 61:4, 61:18, 62:22, 64:15, 66:12, 66:26, 97:8, 98:3, 100:2, 100:5, 102:7
Perhaps [3] - 10:6, 32:10, 89:8
perhaps...(interjection [1] - 102:5
period [3] - 49:11, 49:28, 78:24
periods [2] - 78:5, 92:11
permission [4] - 2:24, 6:5, 6:10, 106:24
persistent [1] - 74:29person [6] - 12:26,
17:10, 44:18, 52:15, 63:28, 104:22
personal [2] - 7:5, 84:28
persons [1] - 44:14persuade [1] - 21:3persuaded [1] - 65:8pertaining [1] -
14:14Ph.d [3] - 35:2,
35:12, 35:13Phase [3] - 76:1,
80:29, 107:4phase [1] - 33:17Phd [1] - 17:16photocopied [2] -
2:23, 83:13photocopy [2] -
83:23, 98:15phrase [7] - 15:28,
22:18, 34:11, 59:12, 104:16, 104:18, 107:3
picking [1] - 56:15picture [1] - 76:20
piece [3] - 35:1, 90:26, 101:11
pilot [1] - 103:19place [11] - 24:12,
36:25, 38:24, 39:3, 40:9, 40:15, 68:9, 75:14, 80:8, 103:11, 111:27
Place [1] - 113:16placed [9] - 50:14,
50:26, 53:23, 53:28, 76:24, 78:5, 78:7, 91:28, 110:23
placement [2] - 52:2, 77:23
placements [3] - 39:7, 58:23, 77:24
places [7] - 18:25, 18:27, 18:28, 47:25, 54:20, 54:21, 95:27
placing [4] - 29:15, 88:8, 92:21, 92:22
play [2] - 47:6, 47:13plus [2] - 72:18,
102:14Pm [1] - 113:26point [19] - 4:19,
8:25, 16:16, 19:15, 22:1, 44:27, 63:17, 64:1, 64:3, 68:28, 74:28, 75:4, 78:27, 86:29, 87:1, 87:16, 99:18, 108:23, 111:29
pointed [5] - 71:12, 71:28, 73:2, 73:23, 79:6
pointing [1] - 74:7points [8] - 16:21,
31:9, 35:11, 60:22, 68:6, 97:21, 109:6, 109:20
police [4] - 99:13, 107:24, 107:28, 109:8
policeman [1] - 100:11
policemen [1] - 109:8
policy [9] - 24:29, 50:24, 61:28, 65:26, 65:27, 69:6, 87:15, 87:16, 94:25
political [1] - 84:27Poor [2] - 52:29,
55:10poor [10] - 23:12,
24:8, 24:9, 25:11, 34:12, 52:22, 61:10, 73:18, 92:8, 92:12
Position [2] - 75:23, 76:8
position [19] - 4:28, 4:29, 5:13, 5:15, 5:19, 7:23, 9:1, 9:4, 9:26, 12:5, 12:23, 17:26, 57:18, 75:12, 98:16, 99:2, 112:6, 113:3, 113:4
possession [2] - 11:7, 12:9
possibility [1] - 95:23
possible [8] - 27:14, 29:27, 35:26, 39:27, 42:4, 65:17, 88:20, 98:19
possibly [2] - 36:9, 51:4
postdates [1] - 101:21
poverty [10] - 20:5, 20:7, 24:23, 47:11, 52:21, 71:7, 71:11, 72:5, 72:6, 72:13
practical [6] - 21:11, 21:16, 23:27, 25:28, 26:2, 51:27
practice [3] - 60:29, 61:13, 61:16
Pre-1956 [1] - 14:10pre-1956 [1] - 28:3pre-1963 [1] - 95:16precisely [2] - 87:10,
101:2predecessors [1] -
81:23preferred [1] - 69:23prejudice [3] - 5:12,
5:15, 5:19preliminary [1] -
63:17preparation [2] -
12:16, 67:1prepared [2] - 11:13,
73:28preparing [3] - 11:3,
11:4, 12:10present [4] - 42:24,
46:9, 102:17, 103:22Present [1] - 2:1presented [11] -
11:14, 28:7, 29:28, 32:28, 42:8, 43:5, 45:1, 57:24, 80:15, 84:29, 88:21
President [1] - 18:19press [1] - 86:11Presumably [3] -
42:29, 43:15, 43:25presumably [2] -
45:4, 48:12
presume [2] - 52:16, 97:18
pretty [3] - 15:14, 44:9, 95:10
prevailing [2] - 71:14, 89:9
prevent [3] - 15:17, 15:18, 108:11
Prevention [5] - 10:5, 10:21, 81:4, 83:24, 85:9
prevention [2] - 16:7, 33:22
previous [4] - 12:26, 72:3, 97:8, 98:6
previously [4] - 11:1, 12:20, 88:2, 102:13
priests [1] - 76:21primarily [4] - 18:24,
23:15, 52:2, 52:4primary [8] - 18:19,
19:12, 30:5, 32:6, 33:22, 85:18, 88:26, 89:20
principle [1] - 16:9priorities [1] - 85:2prison [1] - 45:26prisoners [1] -
107:29prisons [1] - 81:23private [8] - 9:10,
15:17, 26:25, 39:22, 59:1, 62:12, 72:7, 108:11
probable [1] - 44:18problem [17] - 17:7,
51:18, 51:19, 64:29, 65:11, 73:12, 73:22, 75:6, 80:22, 82:18, 86:21, 87:5, 87:9, 89:4, 110:28, 113:9
problems [12] - 19:7, 47:11, 52:17, 52:24, 57:25, 63:26, 70:11, 77:14, 78:13, 85:11, 92:6, 93:2
procedure [1] - 105:20
procedures [3] - 106:25, 112:20
proceed [4] - 5:27, 8:6, 8:23, 38:15
proceedings [11] - 27:20, 27:21, 27:29, 28:5, 28:14, 34:29, 47:7, 48:4, 48:7, 48:22, 106:11
process [8] - 32:24, 33:3, 38:14, 41:23, 41:25, 42:26, 45:1,
91:2processed [1] - 33:8procuring [1] - 20:25produced [1] - 65:6professional [1] -
61:13profound [1] -
109:27progress [4] - 40:6,
40:18, 81:19, 84:8project [1] - 35:2projects [1] - 92:2promise [1] - 89:20proper [6] - 8:15,
8:19, 19:28, 71:15, 72:10, 72:26
properly [3] - 59:8, 74:13, 74:23
proportion [2] - 27:14, 46:11
propose [1] - 9:28proposed [1] - 10:3prosecuted [1] -
47:14prosecution [9] -
21:7, 27:15, 27:22, 27:29, 28:11, 28:12, 43:12, 48:29, 106:26
prosecutions [1] - 47:26
prostitution [1] - 108:20
protect [3] - 4:25, 41:14, 87:15
protected [1] - 25:25protection [9] -
15:20, 16:6, 16:7, 33:22, 44:4, 46:20, 61:3, 85:19, 103:25
protective [2] - 44:5, 46:21
proved [1] - 58:16provenance [1] -
99:15provide [8] - 15:21,
16:14, 72:10, 72:22, 72:26, 91:27, 101:8, 104:3
provided [2] - 11:11, 74:10
provides [1] - 89:4providing [6] -
21:12, 21:17, 73:25, 74:25, 91:20, 96:21
Provincial [3] - 67:22, 97:23, 97:25
provision [6] - 20:23, 32:12, 33:5, 57:5, 71:16, 89:19
provisions [1] -
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
14
77:17provoke [2] - 63:22,
87:26public [24] - 7:1,
15:17, 16:29, 17:4, 17:28, 17:29, 18:4, 18:8, 20:24, 21:22, 23:25, 23:28, 24:2, 24:7, 36:17, 37:11, 70:22, 70:24, 73:2, 75:1, 108:11, 111:23, 112:3, 112:25
Public [1] - 1:3publically [2] -
18:11, 88:28publication [1] -
98:10published [1] - 85:5pull [1] - 5:27punish [2] - 33:20,
64:17punishment [2] -
67:26, 100:26pupils [1] - 66:20purpose [5] - 11:3,
11:4, 37:22, 99:10, 102:13
pursue [1] - 8:26put [15] - 7:15, 13:22,
35:1, 41:26, 47:15, 64:8, 65:12, 65:16, 66:15, 67:17, 68:6, 69:7, 73:13, 75:9, 98:10
putting [4] - 70:10, 71:8, 89:27, 91:12
Qqualification [1] -
6:22quality [4] - 91:3,
91:7, 104:3quarry [1] - 9:21quarter [1] - 99:11queried [1] - 96:12query [1] - 100:22Questioned [3] -
3:11, 10:11, 94:6Questioning [2] -
13:11, 110:8questioning [1] -
110:21questions [10] -
13:3, 13:4, 13:6, 13:7, 93:25, 94:2, 94:3, 103:2, 105:3, 105:11
quicker [1] - 61:2quickly [1] - 85:15quite [14] - 14:11,
19:14, 24:27, 45:5, 49:10, 52:20, 55:1, 70:7, 73:8, 74:15, 79:5, 79:9, 84:26, 102:3
quotations [2] - 28:20, 69:25
quote [5] - 67:20, 67:29, 69:19, 75:11, 87:25
quoted [3] - 32:13, 71:26, 95:28
quotes [1] - 32:15quoting [1] - 67:14
Rraise [5] - 24:6, 79:8,
80:18, 110:20raised [10] - 13:4,
15:5, 50:25, 51:1, 52:14, 67:5, 79:9, 95:23, 96:9
raising [2] - 50:24, 111:9
ran [1] - 18:23range [2] - 22:15,
33:17rate [13] - 24:7,
24:17, 55:14, 55:16, 55:21, 55:24, 55:27, 56:14, 56:17, 56:22, 56:23, 71:13, 72:16
rates [2] - 53:6, 71:14
rather [2] - 64:2, 86:24
rational [1] - 96:4Rattigan [1] - 2:5re [1] - 25:26re-emphasised [1] -
25:26reaction [2] - 63:22,
87:26read [12] - 6:8, 7:11,
32:9, 33:18, 53:11, 60:6, 69:19, 84:1, 87:27, 93:10, 93:20, 99:9
reading [3] - 64:5, 66:13, 71:20
reality [1] - 54:16really [14] - 14:21,
36:6, 46:24, 47:18, 63:15, 63:17, 73:22, 77:28, 82:7, 96:20, 102:29, 104:2, 104:7, 113:4
reason [9] - 7:9, 44:17, 50:28, 54:27,
58:20, 65:2, 90:17, 93:3, 96:5
reasonable [5] - 39:1, 44:8, 46:22, 60:28, 90:28
reasons [3] - 35:7, 43:26, 48:11
receipt [1] - 94:21receipted [1] - 96:2receive [5] - 17:29,
69:21, 88:13, 90:6, 97:18
received [8] - 29:19, 30:25, 38:15, 89:14, 96:6, 100:21, 107:6, 107:27
receives [1] - 99:10receiving [3] - 50:19,
60:10, 107:19recent [1] - 86:14recently [4] - 30:25,
72:12, 89:14, 92:9reclassification [1] -
89:6recognised [2] -
29:23, 88:16recognition [1] -
86:14recollection [2] -
68:1, 68:17recommendations
[5] - 75:17, 79:4, 85:6, 86:12, 104:4
Recommendations [1] - 85:8
record [2] - 7:11, 103:23
recordkeeping [1] - 106:22
records [11] - 26:24, 36:1, 63:16, 63:24, 64:6, 65:5, 71:10, 77:28, 90:22, 90:23, 111:13
recoverable [1] - 107:23
redress [1] - 8:18Reedy [1] - 2:3refer [5] - 28:22,
66:9, 71:8, 99:13, 104:18
reference [26] - 19:27, 22:6, 35:10, 47:8, 51:5, 53:12, 55:19, 58:5, 58:27, 62:5, 62:7, 62:9, 70:14, 70:16, 75:26, 81:6, 85:4, 95:1, 95:6, 96:7, 97:3, 100:17, 101:12, 107:14,
107:21, 108:21Reference [3] - 84:18,
84:24, 96:13referenced [4] -
51:10, 51:11, 60:24, 64:14
references [3] - 20:3, 58:7, 58:8
referral [5] - 16:17, 16:28, 17:2, 47:22, 48:12
referrals [18] - 16:25, 16:28, 17:4, 17:12, 17:18, 17:28, 18:4, 19:20, 28:4, 36:16, 36:17, 37:6, 37:9, 48:6, 48:16, 48:21, 109:1, 109:2
referred [12] - 6:27, 7:4, 11:11, 27:19, 58:7, 70:8, 70:16, 97:26, 97:28, 98:2, 104:21, 108:16
referring [2] - 101:17, 104:18
refers [7] - 31:27, 32:4, 51:6, 51:14, 94:13, 95:3, 99:7
reflect [1] - 100:5reflected [1] - 50:21reflects [1] - 100:2reform [1] - 81:21refusal [1] - 24:2regard [17] - 7:3,
7:23, 8:28, 31:28, 40:3, 47:7, 60:23, 62:25, 64:24, 65:28, 73:12, 77:6, 79:4, 79:13, 79:17, 91:9, 92:17
regarded [1] - 84:27regarding [5] - 19:1,
20:4, 40:3, 41:7, 62:23
regards [10] - 41:4, 57:6, 81:20, 85:19, 93:21, 93:22, 94:28, 97:8, 101:15, 102:7
regime [7] - 66:17, 66:18, 67:10, 67:12, 67:18, 67:22, 68:13
regimes [1] - 67:4regions [1] - 28:2Registrar [1] - 2:3regret [2] - 109:28,
110:2regretted [1] - 89:1regular [1] - 104:4regularly [1] - 65:25rehousing [1] -
20:23reintegrate [1] -
91:29relate [2] - 14:16,
98:9related [3] - 16:22,
16:25, 109:11relates [3] - 24:14,
48:23, 109:12relating [6] - 14:18,
77:26, 100:26, 101:10, 101:25
relation [19] - 6:7, 58:11, 77:18, 80:25, 80:26, 87:23, 94:10, 94:13, 94:25, 96:7, 96:9, 98:1, 100:18, 101:6, 103:10, 103:11, 103:21, 111:22, 113:17
relationship [5] - 18:13, 18:21, 19:8, 39:13, 40:8
relationships [1] - 92:1
relative [1] - 52:7Relatives [1] - 52:5release [1] - 40:22releasing [1] - 50:10relevant [1] - 8:13relied [1] - 11:5relief [9] - 23:11,
23:12, 24:9, 24:10, 24:13, 25:11, 75:1, 94:19
religious [6] - 18:12, 18:13, 18:14, 18:18, 18:23, 76:18
reluctant [2] - 41:8, 75:14
remained [1] - 15:13remains [1] - 89:4remark [1] - 90:13remarkably [1] -
15:13remarks [2] - 4:24,
8:27remedy [3] - 5:21,
31:29, 89:5remember [2] -
42:24, 99:28remind [2] - 27:6,
27:7reminder [1] -
101:20reminds [1] - 61:17remiss [1] - 85:3remit [4] - 8:11, 15:9,
58:9, 94:20remittance [1] -
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
15
94:22removal [1] - 76:25remove [4] - 29:18,
43:25, 43:29, 88:11removed [3] - 74:25,
99:22, 105:16rent [4] - 22:10,
23:21, 72:20, 72:25repayable [1] -
107:24repeat [2] - 49:13,
96:20Report [5] - 30:27,
85:4, 86:13, 96:8, 102:28
report [55] - 20:5, 24:20, 27:18, 31:12, 32:4, 33:18, 34:11, 36:2, 36:13, 38:3, 41:5, 42:15, 47:24, 48:19, 51:6, 51:12, 55:20, 56:5, 57:19, 58:1, 62:8, 63:16, 63:19, 69:19, 70:27, 71:12, 71:28, 72:9, 74:1, 74:2, 74:6, 74:9, 79:6, 79:25, 80:16, 81:25, 82:12, 82:22, 82:24, 83:4, 83:10, 83:20, 84:12, 85:4, 85:22, 85:28, 85:29, 86:2, 87:2, 87:29, 97:28, 98:3, 100:10, 105:24, 112:15
reported [1] - 33:3reporting [3] - 48:4,
97:13, 106:23reports [85] - 11:15,
11:27, 12:6, 14:9, 14:10, 14:11, 14:12, 14:13, 15:26, 16:3, 16:14, 16:16, 17:3, 17:12, 17:14, 18:2, 18:16, 19:16, 20:4, 20:10, 20:28, 21:2, 22:2, 23:5, 23:18, 24:6, 24:10, 24:26, 25:3, 25:12, 25:20, 25:26, 26:15, 27:26, 28:10, 28:28, 29:1, 33:24, 33:28, 37:9, 38:10, 39:20, 40:5, 41:1, 42:14, 42:18, 43:5, 43:10, 45:24, 46:7, 47:9, 48:4, 51:2, 51:24, 56:11, 58:22, 62:1, 62:16, 64:6, 64:10, 64:14, 64:18, 65:22, 67:5, 67:6, 69:17, 72:3, 73:17,
79:5, 83:12, 86:27, 87:24, 92:20, 95:9, 95:12, 95:14, 96:3, 97:16, 99:24, 107:21, 112:8, 112:12, 112:13, 112:23
represent [1] - 111:29
representation [12] - 4:15, 4:18, 4:20, 4:21, 5:2, 5:20, 7:28, 8:10, 8:14, 9:7, 9:22, 18:17
representations [1] - 86:16
representative [5] - 34:23, 34:27, 35:25, 45:13, 45:22
representatives [1] - 9:21
represented [2] - 63:12, 108:26
representing [1] - 13:2
reproduced [1] - 2:23
reputations [1] - 89:9
request [8] - 4:11, 5:2, 5:4, 7:21, 7:25, 7:27, 8:2, 45:18
requested [2] - 58:26, 59:4
requesting [1] - 53:28
requirement [1] - 96:11
rescue [1] - 72:4research [14] -
17:16, 28:8, 34:21, 34:22, 35:1, 35:5, 36:3, 37:16, 37:19, 45:7, 55:11, 66:29, 102:12, 109:7
researcher [2] - 17:18, 35:3
researchers [3] - 45:10, 58:12, 62:24
researches [1] - 102:16
reside [1] - 12:3Residential [1] -
76:17residential [14] -
40:14, 41:12, 53:28, 66:12, 75:14, 76:27, 93:21, 95:3, 95:13, 95:20, 103:27, 104:6, 108:5
resolution [1] - 9:5resolve [1] - 52:24
resort [4] - 28:18, 33:26, 33:27
resorts [1] - 33:27resources [2] -
62:21, 89:17respect [1] - 111:12responded [1] - 14:2respondent [1] -
2:24responsibilities [3] -
21:5, 27:7, 27:12responsibility [7] -
10:29, 23:8, 33:21, 41:28, 85:1, 86:14, 106:23
responsible [1] - 63:29
rest [3] - 28:10, 30:19, 34:27
restate [1] - 97:11restated [1] - 15:25result [3] - 34:29,
48:21, 75:1resultant [1] - 74:25resulted [4] - 17:20,
34:24, 54:26, 80:22resulting [1] - 19:20retired [1] - 109:8retrospect [1] -
60:15return [10] - 19:1,
19:3, 41:7, 41:11, 41:12, 41:15, 50:23, 57:10, 57:14, 93:15
returned [3] - 40:20, 40:29, 70:6
returning [2] - 38:9, 41:4
review [11] - 11:7, 13:29, 15:3, 16:1, 18:15, 18:22, 30:29, 36:20, 40:28, 60:26, 96:26
reviewed [5] - 17:18, 23:5, 41:17, 45:27, 78:2
reviewing [2] - 14:11, 42:7
Reviewing [1] - 16:10reviews [1] - 11:13rich [1] - 16:15rightly [3] - 19:15,
24:28, 79:6rights [7] - 4:25, 8:4,
8:8, 9:13, 9:19, 32:10, 53:23
ring [1] - 36:12rises [1] - 110:12risk [1] - 108:24Road [1] - 51:15
role [13] - 25:21, 40:2, 47:6, 47:13, 61:22, 75:16, 87:13, 90:13, 91:6, 91:11, 100:15, 105:27
roles [1] - 13:28room [1] - 20:15Rosminian's [3] -
66:17, 67:14, 67:22rough [1] - 14:25roughly [4] - 14:22,
14:24, 23:19, 58:15route [3] - 43:8,
45:29, 77:16Royal [1] - 15:25rule [5] - 14:6, 15:10,
32:16, 34:13, 94:13Rules [1] - 108:10run [3] - 18:12,
76:21, 90:25rural [2] - 16:11,
20:18Ryan [2] - 1:17, 4:5
Ssake [1] - 102:22sale [1] - 95:16sample [6] - 34:25,
34:27, 35:6, 35:13, 58:11, 72:7
sanction [1] - 38:15sanitary [1] - 19:28satisfaction [1] -
86:13satisfactory [1] -
76:27save [1] - 73:5saw [2] - 70:2, 77:15Sc [3] - 2:5, 2:13,
2:16scabies [1] - 78:11scale [1] - 72:15schedule [1] -
112:26scheme [2] - 98:24,
103:19school [30] - 13:24,
16:29, 24:12, 28:1, 31:2, 36:23, 36:24, 38:20, 38:21, 51:22, 54:21, 55:8, 58:18, 65:17, 65:18, 65:29, 66:2, 66:5, 66:7, 66:15, 66:22, 66:23, 66:28, 66:29, 67:4, 89:15, 89:19, 96:16, 107:8, 109:29
schools [64] - 18:23, 18:24, 18:28, 27:24,
28:15, 29:8, 29:16, 29:19, 29:22, 30:3, 30:5, 31:15, 31:29, 34:5, 38:22, 39:27, 39:28, 40:2, 40:5, 41:19, 45:18, 46:12, 46:18, 46:24, 49:7, 50:18, 50:27, 54:22, 57:21, 58:14, 62:6, 63:26, 69:6, 70:3, 70:11, 70:26, 70:28, 72:29, 73:13, 79:12, 88:4, 88:9, 88:12, 88:16, 88:24, 88:26, 88:29, 89:4, 89:6, 89:9, 89:28, 90:4, 90:6, 90:14, 90:25, 91:4, 91:7, 91:9, 94:26, 100:27, 101:6, 101:10, 101:16, 107:6
Science [1] - 2:9scope [1] - 81:20Scotland [1] - 56:23scrapping [1] - 84:25scrupulous [1] -
43:29se [5] - 36:7, 46:27,
55:2, 78:18, 106:27second [10] - 34:8,
44:12, 51:3, 62:9, 74:24, 83:1, 84:17, 95:23, 99:19, 107:15
secondary [1] - 31:18
Secondly [2] - 40:14, 109:25
secondly [1] - 24:24Secretary [6] - 82:23,
85:22, 105:25, 106:7, 106:16, 106:18
secretary [4] - 33:2, 33:4, 96:1, 100:25
Secretary's [3] - 82:12, 83:20, 84:12
section [4] - 24:27, 44:13, 107:14, 111:24
sections [1] - 99:23secure [2] - 24:4,
32:11see [12] - 5:10, 5:26,
39:16, 41:20, 62:10, 84:8, 86:6, 90:25, 91:12, 96:2, 97:17, 111:13
seek [5] - 8:5, 8:18, 9:1, 32:26, 106:24
seeking [9] - 5:1, 5:19, 19:1, 19:2, 35:3, 36:5, 41:11, 62:15, 106:24
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
16
seeks [1] - 21:7seem [15] - 25:3,
29:6, 49:10, 49:28, 51:25, 69:26, 75:25, 76:12, 78:28, 86:20, 87:3, 90:4, 90:23, 92:11, 92:13
segregation [1] - 89:7
seldom [4] - 29:27, 76:22, 88:20, 89:19
selective [1] - 35:6self [3] - 17:12,
17:18, 54:24self-limited [1] -
54:24self-referrals [2] -
17:12, 17:18selling [2] - 57:29,
58:3semantics [1] -
68:21sending [5] - 26:29,
29:24, 42:6, 63:26, 88:18
Senior [1] - 63:7senior [1] - 6:16sense [10] - 21:20,
27:16, 30:13, 43:28, 52:28, 53:3, 61:20, 69:16, 93:11, 93:17
sent [7] - 12:3, 42:1, 53:4, 92:10, 94:22, 106:4, 110:24
sentence [1] - 83:3separate [2] - 22:15,
96:10separation [1] - 56:4serious [5] - 56:25,
75:17, 78:13, 79:27, 89:26
seriously [1] - 21:6serves [1] - 32:5service [1] - 103:17services [7] - 22:18,
23:6, 23:12, 24:9, 24:13, 73:18, 74:11
Services [3] - 2:23, 2:24, 74:7
session [1] - 26:25set [4] - 43:1, 64:25,
103:17, 111:23setting [1] - 82:9seven [2] - 28:2,
72:19several [1] - 8:29sexes [3] - 20:15,
55:3, 76:20Sexual [1] - 99:1sexual [6] - 99:7,
99:11, 99:23, 99:25, 100:1, 100:12
Seán [1] - 1:17shame [3] - 56:21,
57:8, 93:12Shanley [11] - 1:21,
105:3, 105:10, 105:13, 105:19, 105:28, 106:3, 106:12, 107:1, 107:16, 108:6
shifting [1] - 73:9shillings [9] - 71:13,
71:15, 72:11, 72:17, 72:20, 72:21, 73:2, 73:3, 73:5
short [6] - 50:17, 50:21, 76:17, 78:5, 78:7, 112:23
short-term [1] - 50:21
shortcomings [1] - 89:3
shorthand [1] - 1:30shortly [1] - 85:25show [4] - 72:10,
96:3, 96:4, 96:5shows [2] - 81:8,
89:20sick [4] - 50:26, 51:8,
79:10, 79:16sickness [1] - 50:28side [2] - 23:3, 47:1significant [8] -
11:20, 36:16, 36:29, 37:5, 46:23, 90:2, 92:27, 104:1
significantly [1] - 82:3
similar [2] - 39:15, 85:23
simple [2] - 20:12, 80:9
simply [12] - 20:8, 21:7, 28:29, 39:2, 44:28, 57:4, 62:21, 66:10, 74:17, 87:1, 87:16, 105:29
single [2] - 19:19, 37:10
Sisters [1] - 111:11sit [4] - 5:25, 5:28,
106:21, 110:16sitting [4] - 9:20,
61:23, 81:27, 106:28situation [14] - 4:22,
14:15, 25:18, 33:7, 40:21, 65:15, 66:3, 69:8, 71:7, 75:8, 78:22, 87:12, 91:8,
106:21situations [9] -
58:22, 60:7, 63:25, 70:4, 78:4, 78:19, 79:15, 80:5, 97:12
six [3] - 20:14, 58:14, 72:19
sixteen [1] - 55:21size [1] - 76:27skewed [2] - 35:13,
37:17skills [1] - 60:21sleeping [1] - 80:7slight [1] - 16:5slightly [1] - 99:18slotted [1] - 112:26slow [1] - 26:29slums [1] - 25:10small [12] - 12:20,
18:29, 19:29, 20:13, 24:4, 45:12, 45:21, 57:1, 72:28, 88:27, 89:3, 103:18
smaller [1] - 76:20snapshot [1] - 19:5snippet [1] - 69:22Social [1] - 74:6social [23] - 12:25,
21:12, 22:21, 23:12, 24:9, 24:13, 25:14, 30:11, 47:11, 57:3, 57:15, 57:25, 60:14, 60:16, 60:20, 60:22, 61:5, 71:28, 73:18, 74:11, 87:15, 93:17, 103:17
society [3] - 56:12, 91:24, 93:2
Society [100] - 10:5, 10:21, 11:5, 11:8, 11:14, 11:19, 12:12, 13:2, 14:6, 14:23, 15:9, 15:12, 15:13, 17:21, 17:25, 18:13, 18:15, 18:16, 19:6, 24:20, 25:6, 25:17, 26:23, 27:4, 28:16, 29:7, 29:28, 31:8, 31:23, 31:24, 31:26, 33:16, 35:17, 37:7, 43:26, 43:28, 47:12, 47:16, 47:22, 49:11, 50:25, 51:17, 51:22, 56:9, 56:15, 60:16, 64:6, 64:16, 64:25, 69:13, 70:10, 70:18, 73:9, 73:17, 73:23, 73:24, 74:7, 75:4, 75:13, 75:16, 77:14, 80:1, 80:2, 80:26,
81:4, 81:11, 82:2, 82:7, 83:24, 85:16, 86:11, 86:21, 87:4, 87:10, 87:14, 88:21, 89:27, 90:13, 90:24, 91:11, 91:16, 91:19, 91:26, 91:28, 92:6, 92:14, 93:8, 94:12, 94:14, 94:25, 95:19, 96:23, 108:1, 108:10, 108:15, 108:17, 108:28, 109:23, 110:3
Society's [1] - 96:17solicitor [1] - 6:14Solicitor [1] - 83:28solicitors [1] - 6:5solution [7] - 32:17,
34:15, 47:18, 69:18, 73:25, 73:27, 87:9
solve [2] - 52:17, 73:22
solved [8] - 19:7, 46:1, 51:20, 63:25, 65:11, 73:13, 86:21, 87:6
someone [1] - 49:23sometimes [3] -
39:22, 72:24, 107:8somewhat [4] - 67:6,
85:24, 98:4, 112:1somewhere [6] -
34:28, 38:2, 39:24, 57:13, 66:14, 93:16
sons [1] - 76:14soon [1] - 69:10sorry [12] - 7:19,
22:1, 27:18, 34:10, 47:1, 51:10, 71:22, 75:29, 83:4, 83:5, 103:14, 108:25
Sorry [16] - 33:26, 48:3, 49:13, 49:26, 55:29, 59:12, 68:15, 69:3, 71:19, 71:21, 71:23, 82:14, 82:17, 82:25, 110:11
sort [21] - 20:4, 20:26, 21:24, 27:14, 28:6, 30:14, 36:26, 39:26, 42:4, 42:10, 42:20, 47:18, 55:11, 57:8, 62:1, 67:5, 69:25, 69:27, 89:6, 93:17, 106:20
sorting [1] - 64:28sorts [1] - 57:24sought [7] - 19:7,
32:18, 34:15, 38:22, 48:15, 62:8, 78:1
sound [3] - 29:19,
88:13, 90:7source [5] - 16:15,
16:17, 19:14, 86:13, 97:15
sources [5] - 11:6, 11:12, 16:28, 95:9, 95:15
sovereign [1] - 31:29Speaker [10] - 59:15,
59:20, 59:26, 68:14, 69:14, 82:4, 82:15, 102:6, 102:19, 102:23
speaking [1] - 61:18special [2] - 57:21,
94:16specific [16] - 4:11,
14:16, 17:15, 24:28, 36:18, 42:25, 44:21, 44:23, 67:27, 68:24, 68:25, 93:4, 101:29, 102:9, 102:10, 102:11
specifically [6] - 18:8, 28:8, 28:26, 68:2, 71:14, 96:26
spectre [1] - 52:14speculate [2] -
60:28, 100:4speculating [2] -
29:9, 100:15spent [1] - 90:25sponger [1] - 97:29spontaneously [1] -
7:5squalid [1] - 19:27squalor [2] - 72:4,
80:8Square [1] - 51:15squint [1] - 78:14staff [7] - 12:11,
12:14, 12:17, 12:18, 12:21, 12:22, 12:28
stage [13] - 14:29, 45:24, 46:7, 48:26, 73:23, 75:20, 77:8, 78:10, 89:20, 90:2, 91:10, 101:4, 113:19
stand [1] - 9:18standards [1] - 71:16stark [1] - 57:7start [2] - 63:15,
83:19starting [2] - 71:24,
86:9starts [2] - 73:24,
83:3State [7] - 9:7, 18:20,
22:21, 60:11, 69:12, 80:21, 87:19
state [1] - 29:7State's [1] - 86:14
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
17
statement [32] - 5:11, 5:14, 5:16, 7:15, 7:16, 7:24, 11:3, 11:11, 12:10, 12:16, 15:24, 16:6, 16:8, 26:7, 28:21, 36:15, 40:7, 48:9, 48:10, 60:25, 65:27, 67:1, 80:14, 82:8, 90:5, 90:21, 90:28, 91:5, 96:21, 101:13, 109:25, 109:26
statements [8] - 29:10, 33:20, 33:23, 42:13, 43:2, 65:21, 65:24, 99:13
statistic [1] - 48:23statistics [6] - 28:2,
46:17, 48:28, 49:5, 55:13, 92:17
status [1] - 112:4statutory [1] - 76:16staying [1] - 80:13stenographic [1] -
42:27Stenography [2] -
2:23, 2:24step [2] - 25:27,
46:27sterilisation [1] -
20:25stigma [4] - 70:12,
70:24, 71:1, 93:18still [11] - 53:9,
72:23, 72:25, 75:6, 75:8, 75:20, 76:20, 77:1, 81:20, 86:29
stop [1] - 102:21stopped [1] - 59:2stories [2] - 63:11,
92:27story [1] - 9:10straits [1] - 79:27Street [3] - 11:18,
12:8, 101:22striking [2] - 22:5,
55:19strong [2] - 24:11,
28:20strongly [2] - 27:26,
109:10structure [4] - 97:18,
97:19, 106:16, 106:26structured [4] -
97:14, 105:26, 106:21, 106:27
stuck [1] - 110:25students [1] - 66:20studied [1] - 79:24study [2] - 71:21,
79:25stuff [4] - 20:26,
36:26, 55:11, 110:17subject [6] - 27:20,
28:4, 34:10, 48:6, 58:12, 58:19
subjected [1] - 110:1submission [1] -
90:5submissions [1] -
86:16subscription [1] -
96:17subscriptions [3] -
94:11, 95:17, 95:29Subscriptions [1] -
94:14subsequent [1] -
106:5subsequently [3] -
19:20, 53:5, 110:1substantial [1] - 49:6succeed [1] - 9:29successes [2] - 65:8,
65:9successful [2] -
92:12, 92:14suddenly [1] - 6:27suffer [1] - 89:2suffered [1] - 9:12suggest [9] - 38:18,
41:2, 44:8, 55:25, 79:3, 82:2, 86:20, 97:7, 111:10
suggested [2] - 68:29, 87:17
suggesting [1] - 68:28
suggestion [4] - 56:7, 58:1, 65:16, 95:4
suggestions [1] - 87:3
suitability [1] - 36:25suitable [2] - 84:28,
89:22sum [1] - 72:11summary [1] - 85:8superannuation [2] -
98:24, 99:21Superior [2] - 96:16,
97:22supervise [1] -
106:21supervision [3] -
26:12, 26:14, 105:26supplied [2] - 2:23,
82:19support [16] - 17:12,
18:1, 21:3, 21:4,
21:11, 21:17, 25:28, 41:14, 51:28, 57:23, 64:17, 73:1, 74:18, 86:17, 91:27, 91:29
supported [3] - 25:23, 28:10, 47:20
supporting [1] - 96:29
supports [2] - 51:27, 56:12
suppose [14] - 16:14, 16:20, 17:24, 27:23, 28:14, 31:9, 36:2, 44:27, 49:4, 55:19, 96:20, 109:5, 109:27, 111:28
supposed [1] - 102:6surely [2] - 78:21,
80:19surprised [2] -
97:15, 107:18surprising [2] - 67:6,
89:21surrendering [1] -
39:13survive [1] - 12:14surviving [4] - 19:10,
35:27, 53:22, 58:24suspect [7] - 14:29,
46:22, 48:4, 54:29, 62:16, 90:29, 99:27
suspected [1] - 99:26
sworn [1] - 10:7Sworn [1] - 10:11system [22] - 13:24,
24:22, 47:14, 52:29, 53:7, 53:10, 53:16, 55:6, 55:8, 58:19, 59:5, 74:22, 78:17, 78:29, 79:22, 80:27, 85:10, 89:18, 103:25, 103:27, 110:23
Ttab [1] - 85:25table [3] - 5:28,
48:10, 54:8tables [1] - 61:23tabulates [1] - 47:25taint [2] - 30:11,
88:29talks [5] - 20:5,
42:11, 42:13, 42:17, 107:26
tarred [1] - 30:13task [1] - 89:22taxpayer [1] - 73:5teacher [1] - 101:13
temporary [9] - 77:23, 77:24, 77:29, 78:1, 78:17, 78:22, 78:24, 79:14, 79:15
ten [3] - 20:14, 55:1, 73:3
tended [1] - 26:1tenet [1] - 85:16term [12] - 22:16,
24:9, 37:28, 47:2, 50:17, 50:21, 66:9, 76:16, 76:17, 78:8, 93:6
termed [2] - 36:5, 38:4
terms [20] - 9:15, 42:8, 53:2, 57:25, 58:7, 61:2, 65:9, 65:15, 86:28, 90:3, 91:6, 92:5, 92:8, 92:27, 93:12, 102:12, 106:28, 108:16, 111:2, 113:6
terrible [1] - 22:23terribly [1] - 92:13testifying [1] - 91:3the...(interjection [1]
- 67:7themselves [6] -
17:13, 17:19, 37:12, 84:25, 86:24, 95:24
theoretically [1] - 15:10
thereabouts [1] - 70:15
thereafter [1] - 64:1therefore [8] - 35:25,
46:11, 52:28, 54:11, 55:7, 58:25, 59:2, 76:26
Therefore [1] - 82:4thinking [4] - 61:20,
80:5, 91:19, 112:28third [1] - 86:9Thirdly [1] - 40:16thirds [1] - 36:10thorough [1] - 95:10thousand [2] - 55:27,
55:28threat [1] - 109:12threats [1] - 58:8three [7] - 12:28,
14:17, 34:28, 40:13, 54:12, 60:18, 95:27
throughout [1] - 75:18
throwing [1] - 39:16thrown [1] - 89:16to...(interjection [2] -
77:27, 104:29
today [5] - 9:10, 10:1, 21:13, 70:8, 106:29
together [4] - 13:22, 65:22, 68:6, 74:28
took [5] - 10:27, 43:28, 68:9, 87:21, 96:22
total [2] - 12:28, 72:25
totally [1] - 77:11touch [1] - 79:13touched [1] - 77:5touches [1] - 79:18towards [3] - 24:4,
37:17, 85:10towns [1] - 20:19trade [2] - 31:10,
31:15trades [2] - 31:11,
89:17trading [1] - 56:8traditions [1] - 76:13trained [1] - 89:18transcript [1] - 1:29Transcripts [1] - 2:22transfer [1] - 93:19transferring [1] -
79:21trauma [1] - 9:12trawl [3] - 101:8,
101:15, 111:13trawling [1] - 96:23treat [1] - 62:11treated [10] - 59:6,
59:7, 69:20, 80:11, 89:29, 90:4, 92:28, 93:4, 93:5, 93:22
treatment [7] - 30:24, 48:13, 50:20, 78:7, 78:13, 89:11, 89:12
Tribunal [1] - 8:16tried [1] - 92:23trouble [1] - 37:2true [4] - 1:29, 15:27,
68:11, 72:23trustworthy [1] -
17:23try [13] - 19:5, 20:22,
24:3, 25:15, 25:27, 35:26, 41:14, 43:29, 52:17, 64:11, 89:21, 102:24, 102:26
trying [6] - 20:2, 21:14, 46:6, 56:6, 64:20, 97:9
tuberculosis [1] - 50:20
Tuesday [3] - 1:11,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
18
4:1, 7:2turn [1] - 55:12twisting [1] - 80:2two [20] - 16:4,
16:15, 16:20, 17:28, 36:10, 40:12, 40:27, 50:3, 51:1, 54:20, 60:18, 62:4, 67:2, 74:22, 77:14, 95:27, 96:9, 96:24, 109:19
two-thirds [1] - 36:10
type [3] - 19:6, 42:15, 101:25
types [2] - 16:25, 86:20
typically [1] - 16:10
UUk [8] - 60:24, 60:28,
61:1, 61:6, 61:8, 99:28, 99:29
unable [3] - 29:16, 74:17, 88:9
unanimity [1] - 112:17
unchallenged [1] - 8:29
unconstitutional [1] - 46:9
under [18] - 15:10, 46:1, 46:12, 71:10, 74:6, 74:10, 76:23, 76:28, 81:23, 85:8, 89:18, 92:12, 94:16, 94:17, 94:18, 107:5, 110:23, 110:24
Under [2] - 74:5, 88:4undergo [1] - 89:11undernourishment
[4] - 72:5, 74:9, 74:16, 74:29
undertaken [1] - 107:29
underway [1] - 9:15undesirable [2] -
29:18, 88:11unemployables [1] -
75:2unemployment [4] -
23:22, 23:23, 72:15, 74:11
unequal [1] - 72:28Unfortunately [4] -
11:21, 36:1, 62:19, 105:18
unfortunately [5] - 11:29, 14:8, 14:19, 17:14, 92:17
unhappiness [2] - 31:29, 104:16
unions [2] - 31:10, 89:18
United [1] - 26:24units [1] - 76:20Unknown [10] -
59:15, 59:20, 59:26, 68:14, 69:14, 82:4, 82:15, 102:6, 102:19, 102:23
unless [7] - 7:3, 33:1, 33:7, 36:13, 51:26, 51:28, 101:27
unlikely [2] - 35:8, 46:26
unmarried [1] - 22:15
unprotected [1] - 9:18
unqualified [1] - 7:10unreserved [1] - 7:9unreservedly [1] -
6:22unruliness [2] - 30:4,
88:26unsuitable [2] - 32:1,
58:16untypical [1] - 20:18unwontedly [1] -
44:1up [49] - 5:27, 10:23,
15:26, 18:5, 23:16, 27:6, 28:9, 29:20, 34:6, 38:26, 38:27, 44:6, 49:9, 49:23, 49:29, 53:4, 53:29, 56:11, 56:15, 64:9, 69:7, 69:29, 70:4, 72:28, 74:23, 74:24, 75:19, 76:17, 77:1, 82:9, 84:28, 87:28, 88:13, 90:7, 90:14, 91:29, 92:15, 94:29, 95:14, 96:3, 96:7, 97:12, 97:22, 101:29, 103:17, 105:9, 109:17, 111:18
Up [1] - 49:17updating [1] - 86:12urban [1] - 16:11useful [4] - 29:20,
74:24, 88:14, 90:7usual [2] - 49:26,
49:28
Vvalid [1] - 5:2variety [1] - 27:21
various [14] - 11:6, 53:6, 64:5, 64:25, 65:5, 65:6, 74:11, 74:20, 74:29, 75:18, 79:7, 79:23, 113:15
vast [1] - 77:19vehicle [1] - 46:28verminous [2] - 17:7,
20:12viable [1] - 76:26view [22] - 5:6,
33:16, 35:22, 40:10, 40:29, 41:3, 43:28, 64:1, 64:3, 64:10, 64:11, 64:29, 71:5, 73:15, 75:4, 77:9, 78:21, 80:26, 96:6, 96:23, 103:21, 111:29
viewed [4] - 16:20, 17:22, 45:2, 47:4
views [1] - 41:5Vincent [2] - 23:2,
23:4vindicate [1] - 4:25vindication [1] - 9:1virtually [1] - 76:18vis [6] - 16:15, 42:16,
110:23vis-a-vis [3] - 16:15,
42:16, 110:23vision [1] - 31:25visit [2] - 16:12,
65:25Visitation [1] - 96:8visited [3] - 22:19,
66:5, 66:7visiting [1] - 40:2visitor [6] - 96:12,
96:13, 96:19, 97:21, 97:26, 97:27
visits [3] - 26:13, 26:14, 66:1
voluntarily [1] - 76:24
voluntary [2] - 23:3, 95:15
voted [1] - 113:18
Wwait [1] - 5:7Wait [1] - 83:6waiting [1] - 112:8Wales [1] - 56:23wants [3] - 5:8,
105:7, 105:11war [2] - 18:6, 24:16warn [1] - 106:24warned [1] - 25:23warnings [1] - 21:4
warrants [3] - 107:17, 107:22, 107:23
was...(interjection
[1] - 68:13water [1] - 61:14ways [4] - 20:21,
64:26, 75:21, 86:20website [1] - 111:27week [8] - 40:11,
71:15, 72:17, 72:20, 111:22, 111:23, 111:26, 113:16
weight [1] - 43:23welcome [2] - 13:26,
109:20welfare [6] - 15:28,
16:13, 22:21, 71:28, 81:20, 81:28
West [1] - 38:28western [1] - 41:18Wexford [1] - 14:16whatsoever [1] -
90:16whereby [1] - 77:29whilst [1] - 63:23whole [6] - 9:21,
30:24, 75:1, 85:10, 89:12, 100:1
Wicklow [1] - 71:14wide [1] - 74:19wider [1] - 72:23widow's [2] - 72:23,
74:12wife [1] - 72:18Windsor [1] - 108:9wise [1] - 46:15wishes [1] - 6:18withdraw [1] - 6:18withdrawal [1] - 7:10Witness [3] - 3:4,
35:18, 81:13witness [3] - 6:15,
10:3, 43:13wives [1] - 86:15woman [3] - 22:8,
22:10, 58:2women [1] - 57:3wonder [5] - 31:25,
38:27, 72:28, 81:21, 98:19
word [5] - 63:20, 63:21, 63:28, 68:25, 93:12
wording [2] - 27:6, 33:14
Words [1] - 76:28words [4] - 15:10,
30:16, 44:6, 66:18workers [6] - 12:25,
Gwen Malone Stenography Services Ltd.
19
60:14, 60:16, 60:20, 60:22, 61:5
workings [1] - 100:18
works [1] - 95:16world [2] - 18:6, 29:4worried [1] - 30:17worries [1] - 60:1worse [3] - 33:29,
34:1, 72:24worst [2] - 35:26,
89:8worthy [1] - 91:17writing [4] - 7:4,
12:15, 17:10, 41:12written [5] - 2:24,
6:28, 12:20, 99:20, 99:21
wrongs [3] - 15:17, 81:22, 108:11
wrote [2] - 12:17, 41:29
Yyear [21] - 10:27,
14:13, 14:14, 24:20, 24:29, 29:15, 47:24, 47:26, 48:5, 48:23, 56:14, 70:14, 74:14, 74:22, 77:1, 82:12, 83:20, 83:25, 84:12, 85:22, 88:8
year's [1] - 74:9years [13] - 11:14,
12:25, 12:29, 14:2, 51:2, 60:18, 72:8, 75:18, 81:3, 81:15, 81:19, 81:21, 109:23
yesterday [9] - 4:24, 4:25, 7:29, 9:12, 53:1, 82:19, 92:8, 110:21, 111:18
Yesterday [1] - 6:12young [1] - 52:4your...(interjection
[1] - 27:17yourself [3] - 5:24,
9:24, 65:19
££9 [1] - 96:11