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Transcript: Aung San Suu Kyi

'We can see the way clear ahead more than we have ever

been able to.'Myanmar's leading opposition figure Aung San Suu Kyi sat down with a Wall Street Journal

reporter Monday to talk about her nation's tentative path toward reform. A newly installed

civilian government there, which replaced a decades-old military regime, has begun an

official dialogue with the Nobel Peace Prize winner, allowed new media freedoms and

reformed some areas of business. Here are excerpts from the interview. (More: Suu Kyi

Notes Progress in Myanmar, Urges More Change)

The Wall Street Journal: What elements of the reforms feel real to you?

Aung San Suu Kyi: To begin with, the talks I've had with [Labor] Minister Aung Kyi andthe president. There's been a lot more substance to the talks than the ones I'd had with the

SPDC [State Peace and Development Council] in the past. That felt real to me. And you have

to acknowledge there is more room for the press to maneuver in. That's good. There's more

freedom of information. In general people feel more relaxed about participating in politics.

They aren't frightened as they used to be. And that's the most important part of what's

happening now. Not only do they want to take part in the political process, they can take part

without endangering themselves too much.

Enlarge Image

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970203911804576651051732968950.html






Khin Maung Win/Associated Press

Aung San Suu Kyi, center, speaking in front of paintings of herself during an art exhibition at

her the headquarters of her National League for Democracy party Sunday in Yangon,

Myanmar.

WSJ: Why is this time different from previous false starts when people felt reform might beafoot?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I don't think it's ever been that open since the coup of 1988. I know we are not

there yet, but we can see the way clear ahead more than we have ever been able to.

WSJ: You've been in talks with the government about a range of issues including political

prisoner releases. The government recently released about 200 political prisoners. A positive

sign but not enough considering there are many more than that still locked up. What's the

status of the rest?

Ms. Suu Kyi: There still are a number of important political prisoners who need to bereleased as soon as possible.

WSJ: Do you get indications there is going to be another release?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Yes. It couldn't be too soon or too many.

WSJ: Are there signals from government about another release?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Yes. The political advisor to the government and others have said there will be

a release before too long.

WSJ: What's the most serious problem Myanmar faces?



Ms. Suu Kyi: We've always said rule of law. Even when people talk about the economy and

the need to reform that, well, we do need the rule of law. For example, investors, people don't

want to invest in a country unless they know where they stand, unless they know their

contracts will be honored and there are proper courts to address any issue that might arise

with regards to agreements with the government or private companies here.

WSJ: Who runs Burma today? Who is really in charge?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I think basically the president [Thein Sein] is in charge. But of course people

question how much support he has within, not just government, but within the army. And that

is important. I don't deny that. But I definitely get the feeling he is in charge even if he is not

in total charge, as it were.

WSJ: Where is [former junta leader] Senior General Than Shwe? Do you have contact with

him?

Political Repression in Myanmar

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Khin Maung Win/Associated Press

Ms. Suu Kyi: I have no contact with him. There are all sorts of rumors. Some people say he

is completely withdrawn from the political scene and there are some who say he is still poised

to come back. These are all rumors. That is one of the small or not so small problems you

have to cope with in a country like there. Because there is no freedom of information people

have to depend on rumors.

WSJ: My taxi driver said he's either in Dubai or China and is too afraid to be in Burma.

Ms. Suu Kyi: Oh no, no. That I can say 99% he's in Burma.

WSJ: In your meetings with the president, you've been very vague about what you've

discussed. Can you be more specific?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I'm afraid I'll have to be vague because I don't need to discuss specifically

what it is we talked about.






WSJ: Why not?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Because it's not yet the time.

WSJ: But you represent a democratic movement. You fight for transparency and openness.

Shouldn't you be telling your supporters what you are talking about?

Ms. Suu Kyi: We've told them what they need to know. We've talked about what we've been

discussing in a very general way. And I think for the time being that's enough. I don't think

that even in democratic countries, when there are very delicate negotiations going on, people

need to know all the details you know while the process is still going on.

WSJ: Turning to foreign policy, and U.S. sanctions, where do you stand? Should the U.S.

ease sanctions at this point?

Ms. Suu Kyi: The U.S. was very specific about why they had imposed sanctions, and one of

the things they always asked for is the release of the political prisoners….And of course weare all for the release of the political prisoners and if this is what the U.S. wants, then we

support them in this.

WSJ: So is now not the time because there are people still in prison?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Obviously now is not the time [to lift sanctions] because they haven't released

everybody yet and the U.S. made it clear they wanted the release of all political prisoners.

WSJ: One of the U.S. sanctions laws, the JADE act, lists three conditions to release sanctions

– releasing you and other prisoners, dialogue with your party and the ethnic parties, andaccess for humanitarian groups to areas of ethnic armed conflict. To what extent has progress

been made on these three conditions?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Well, I've been released and we've started talking, but I can't say the ethnic

nationality parties have been included yet, and I don't think there is yet humanitarian access

to the ethnic areas, especially to where there is fighting going on.

WSJ: The U.S. has said it will respond to the reforms. What should the U.S. do?

Ms. Suu Kyi: It's possible to take steps to help the people directly, humanitarian help,

development help in a limited way. When you talk about development help, it brings in thematter of government cooperation and under some of the regulations this is not yet possible.

WSJ: The government is said to want to gain the chairmanship of ASEAN, the association of

Southeast Asian Nations. This would be a sign of approval by Burma's neighbors. Should this

happen?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Quite frankly, I don't see why it's so important. From my point of view it's

much more important to institute the kind of reforms that would make a real difference to the

lives of people here. Assuming the chairmanship of ASEAN isn't going to do anything about

improving the lives of people.



My opinion is the greatest reward that any government could get is the approval of the

people. If the people are happy and the people are at peace and the government has done

something for them, that's the greatest reward I think any government could hope for.

WSJ: But in this case, what the government wants is the approval of the neighbors.

Ms. Suu Kyi: The approval of their own people is more important. If the people of Burma

approve, then why shouldn't the neighbors approve?

WSJ: Do the people of Burma approve?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I think they are waiting to see what will happen. They really want to see and

feel that there has been a real change.

WSJ: What would make you feel like a real change?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I'd like to be sure there is rule of law in this country and nobody is going to bethrown into prison despite the law.

WSJ: Can you know when that is? Rule of law is not something you can put on this table and

feel.

Ms. Suu Kyi: Of course you can know that. You have to have an independent judiciary. With

a lot of the cases that led to people being in prison for their beliefs, we could always see the

judges were waiting for orders from above or already had orders on what the sentence is

going to be. The judiciary in Burma is not independent. It's widely known, everybody knows

that. If things were to change, certainly our lawyers would know it because they are workingevery day defending.

WSJ: Where do you stand on registering the party in time for the by elections?

Ms. Suu Kyi: This depends very much on the regulations with regard to the registration of

political parties. They have changed some of their regulations and this has been approved by

the upper house and now the bill will be discussed in the lower house. Once that has passed,

then we will be able to decide whether or not we will reregister.

WSJ: As the proposed law stands now, are you encouraged?

Ms. Suu KyiKYI: I think they seem to be changing the bits that we said were not really

acceptable in 2010.

WSJ: In May you had an event to commemorate the 21st anniversary for the 1990 elections.

Ms. Suu Kyi: It was the first democratic elections we had had in a very long time. It was

considered by all as free and fair. And the people exercised their party vote and they voted for

the NLD. We commemorate this day not because the NLD won, but because this was the day

on which the people were able to exercise their democratic right to select the people whom

they wish to be their representatives. And we think it's a bad precedent when the people's will

is put aside. So we kept commemorating every year that the people of Burma did make itquite clear what they wanted.



WSJ: Does registering the party now in any way give up on the claim the party has on that

election being the last real voice of the people being spoken?

Ms. Suu Kyi: No. It happened. You can't say it never happened, whether or not people

recognize it. One of the problems with regard to the 1990 elections is a misunderstanding.

When we said the will of the people as expressed through the 1990 elections should berecognized, we are in fact not asking for a transfer of power as a lot of people seem to think.

That would not be practical. A lot of our MPs have died or gone into exile or are too ill to

participate or are old. It was just a matter of honoring the will of the people and not a matter

of transfer of power.

WSJ: In the Guardian newspaper you described yourself as a politician, that it's your

profession. Most politicians aspire to be in office, to lead and to be able to run the

government. Are you considering running if the party registers, will you run in the by

election later this year?

Ms. Suu Kyi: We will certainly think about it. Because as you say, politicians run for office.If you are running a political party, you have to have a platform. There are certain things you

wish to do and in order to do that, you really need to run for office at some time or another.

WSJ: It seems the most effective way for you to achieve your goals would be for you to lead

the government someday. Is that something you aspire to or hope for?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I don't know whether aspire or hope is the word because I always think in the

end it's the people who must decide. But what I would hope for is the kind of situation where

the people of Burma can decide whom they want to represent them.

WSJ: And would you want to be there as a choice?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I can't say that yet because I don't know when that's going to be. It very much

depends on the circumstances.

WSJ: Some in your country have said the biggest threat to Burma's people and future is not

the regime or President Thein Sein, it's Chinese massive investment. Do you agree with that?

Ms. Suu Kyi: I'd not like to look at it like that. Because after all, China is our neighbor and

whether we like it or not we are going to be neighbors forever. We've always had good

relations with China, even when we had a democratic government and China had anunadulterated communist government. We still had good relations and we'd like to maintain

that.

Chinese investments in Burma could be a problem and some are already a problem, but that

has a lot to do with lack of transparency, which was the case for the last 20 years because we

had authoritarian rule and the people had no idea what was going on and what kind of

contracts would be signed and what kind of agreements the government made and what kind

of investments the government was encouraging.

WSJ: Should Burma welcome Chinese investment?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/16/interview-aung-san-suu-kyi-polly-toynbee





Ms. Suu Kyi: We should always look at what it involves, whether it's China or India or any

other country. It's nothing to do with the country. It's got to do with the kind of investment,

the kind of terms related to the investment. I know that nobody comes in unless they hope to

benefit from what they are doing here. But alright, it's got to be fair, we've got to benefit too,

and it's only fair that we think perhaps we as the host country should benefit a little bit more.

WSJ: What economic system would benefit Burma?

Ms. Suu Kyi: This is supposed to be a free market economy. But it's open to some and not to

others and there's too much of the crony capitalism environment and we need a more level

playing field. Our business friends say that the greatest problem in Burma is the privileged

class, the cronies, they have all the big spots in their hands and it doesn't give other people a

chance and that makes it very unhealthy.

WSJ: In most cases, dictators don't fall unless there's a trigger, people on the street. Some

sort of overt pressure. But here in Myanmar, the reform seems to be happening in the absence

of overt revolt. Why is there reform happening at all?

Ms. Suu Kyi: There has always been pressure going on. That's why there are so many

political prisoners in Burma. There was a time when every day we had to say, 'Who was

taken away last night?' We had to ask this question because our people were being arrested

all the time. Things don't happen for nothing. It's just a matter of how obvious the activities

have been… A lot is going on all the time but people were just not aware of it. And the

economy is not in good shape and the people are not happy. I think the present government is

aware of it and it's a good thing.

WSJ: Is the Arab Spring and the images of revolt in the Middle East playing a role in the

minds of the country's leaders?

Ms. Suu Kyi: It's possible. Did the government mention it to me? No. But people talk about

it all the time…They wonder [if] the same sort of thing could happen in Burma and why it

didn't happen in Burma in 1988. Quite simply in 1988, the army fired on our people whereas

in Egypt and Tunisia, they didn't. Now of course in Libya they did and look at what's

happened in Libya. That's not, of course, what I want for my country.

The people are not happy. There's an undercurrent of dissatisfaction and discontent

throughout the land. But we weren't at some sort of breaking point.

WSJ: Many see this as a top down reform, not a bottom up reform. What do you think?

Ms. Suu Kyi: What's wrong with a top down reform if it's a real reform? Perhaps you do

underestimate the strength of the opposition movement and the strength of the people's will,

and even if the people aren't always running out on the streets and saying this is what we

want, there are ways of making their will felt.

WSJ: When you look at the history of other dissident movements, Gandhi or Mandela or

Martin Luther King, can you think of a parallel period in their struggles where you are now?

Ms. Suu Kyi: People said after I was released last year that this was a Mandela moment. Itwasn't quite that. I'd like to think we are where South Africa was in 1990 when they were just



beginning negotiations [to end apartheid]. There were many problems then, and the road was

certainly no means straight and clear, and there were many setbacks, but they still managed to

make progress and this is what I hope will happen in Burma.

WSJ: How quickly can reform happen here?

Ms. Suu Kyi: For us it couldn't happen quickly enough because we have been struggling for

more than 20 years. But for those who think of this in terms of the in the tenure of the present

government, which is just under a year, they might think this is quick. It's very relative. The

quicker, the better.

WSJ: Would you consider traveling abroad?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Not quite yet. You could always consider that a mark of progress when I

decide it's alright for me to travel abroad, and it means that I feel fairly confident we are on

the straight and clear.

WSJ: Do you think about traveling abroad?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Yes, I do think about it. There are so many countries I'd like to go and thank

the people for what they have done for us these years. I've always said I'd go see Norway first

because their people have been so supportive…The reason I say Norway first, in 1991, before

the Nobel prize, when Norway awarded me the Rafto prize, our movement was going through

an extremely difficult time. So many of our people were in prison, and we could hardly

move. And yet at that time it was Norway that stood up for us and decided that we should not

be forgotten.

WSJ: A Hollywood question. Your life is depicted in a new movie called The Lady, staring

Michelle Yeoh. Have you seen the movie or watched the trailer online?

Ms. Suu Kyi: No. I'm not really interested and haven't thought of looking it up on the net or

whatever.

WSJ: What's your reaction to being portrayed in a movie?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Nothing. I liked Luc Besson. I met him and his wife recently after the film had

been made. I like them personally. But I look upon the film as his version of events and he's

perfectly entitled to make a film based on his version of what happened. And it's notnecessarily what happened and not my version of events either. But this sort of thing happens

and I take it in a rather detached way.

WSJ: I want to get back to the issue of how you communicate with your supporters about the

negotiations with the government. Are they demanding to know more?

Ms. Suu Kyi: Yes. People ask and I tell people as much as I can tell them, and I report to my

CEC [party board] about my talks with the president and the minister, but we agree that we

can't yet discuss the details because we want to wait for a time where there are real results

and then we can say, 'Well, this is what negotiations have brought for us.'



WSJ: A couple of people we've talked to have complained about this. They support you and

love you and want you to succeed, but want to know what's going on.

Ms. Suu Kyi: That's very normal. But on the other hand they have to understand that this is

the very beginning of the beginning and we don't want things to go wrong at this stage. We

don't want unnecessary misunderstandings. Let's hope there will be a nicer surprise for themthat will be worth waiting for.

WSJ: What makes you convinced you can trust the government you are negotiating with?

Ms. Suu Kyi: You don't talk in terms of absolute trust. I think you think of it as taking it step

by step. So far what we have talked about and what we have discussed, I have not yet been

disappointed in what they've done. We've agreed to certain things and they have abided by

the agreement.

WSJ: What's the president like as an interlocutor?

Ms. Suu Kyi: He's very straightforward. He struck me as an honest, open, kind of person.

WSJ: It's always difficult for those outside Burma to understand what's happening here.

What do you want outsiders to know?

Ms. Suu Kyi: We are trying to bring about genuine democratization and I do believe the

president is sincere and I think he has substantial support in his own government. I don't

know whether I can say he has complete support of the army, because I'm not that close to the

army, but I would have thought he would have substantial support in the army as well.

WSJ: How concerned are you that conservative elements in the regime could engineer a

backlash?

Ms. Suu Kyi: One has always have to be concerned about possibility of a backlash. At the

moment, I do not think there is a great danger. Of course, in politics things can change very

quickly.

WSJ: Have you been given any assurances from the army that they are willing to let this

process play out?

Ms. Suu Kyi: It's not for me to ask if you have the army under your control. You don't startoff negotiations like that.

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