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COMMONWEALTH OF PENNSYLVANIA

MONDAY, APRIL 19, 1982

~ ~

THE SPEAKER (MATTHEW J . RYAN) Refcrred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, IN THE CHAIR Anril 14. 1982.

SESSION OF 1982 166TH OF THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY No. 28

PRAYER I No. 240; By Representatives GRAY, McMONAGLE,

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES The House convened at I p .m. , e.s.1.

An ~ c t providing for certain grants-in-aid for vocational education and rehabilitation, self-employment training and retrain- ing related activities, providing for further duties of the Depart- ment of Labor and Industry and making an appropriation.

Let us pray: We rejoice, O Divine Creator, in the beauty of this spring

day. As You bring all nature to newness of life, so fill each of us with Your divine presence, that we may be refreshed in body and spiril in order to serve Your people with renewed vigor.

Bless the proceedings o f this House, and cause all decisions to reflect Your divine guklance. In the name of our Lord. Amen.

REV. CHARLES M. HEAPS, chaplain of the House of Representatives and pastor of First Lutheran Church of Chambersburg, Chambersburg, Pennsylvania, offered thc following prayer:

PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE

IRVIS, MANDERINO, SEVENTY, RYBAK, KUKOVICH, CAWLEY, LLOYD, HALUSKA, WARGO, TRELLO, SHUPNIK, PISTELLA, DeWEESE, BROWN. KOWALYSHYN, RITTER.

(The Pledge of Allegiance was enunciated by members.)

JOURNAL APPROVAL POSTPONED

The SPEAKER. Without objection, approval o f the Journal for Wednesday, April 14, 1982, will be postponed until printed. The Chair hears no objection.

HOUSE BILLS INTRODUCED AND REFERRED

No. 2400 By Representatives IRVIS, MANDERINO, OLIVER, KUKOVICH, PETRARCA, PUNT, DOMBROWSKI. HARPER, RIEGER, PISTELLA, PUCCIARELLI,

WACHOB, RICHARDSON, EMERSON, CALTAGIRONE, PETRARCA, MICHLOVIC, DAWIDA, PETRONE, MORRIS, MURPHY, DEAL. MAIALE, CIMINI, BORSKI, COWELL, PENDLETON. GRABOWSKI, J . D. WILLIAMS, LAUGHLIN, MRKONIC, HORGOS, OLIVER, PUCCIARELLI, DONATUCCI, SWAIM, WIGGINS, BARBER, HOEFFEL, EVANS. DUFFY, WAMBACH, WOZNIAK, STEWART, HARPER, DOMBROWSKI, O'DONNELL, STUBAN and LUCYK

An Act Amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Consolidted Statutes, further providing for processing fees in lieu of registration fees for retired persons.

Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, April 14, 1982.

No. 2402 By Representatives PISTELLA, SEVENTY, PETRONE, IRVIS, ITKIN, GRABOWSKI, HORGOS, DAWIDA and PENDLETON

An Act making an appropriation to the City of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania.

Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, April 14, 1982.

/ No. 2404 By Representatives SPENCER, L. E. SMITH, DeVERTER. PICCOLA, DORR, GRIECO and WACHOB

BARBER, EVANS, M A I A L . ~ , MORRIS, R. C. WRIGHT, BELOFF, PIEVSKY, WIGGINS, O'DONNELL, 1-ASHINGER, SALVATORE, HOEFFEL, COWELL, ROCKS, E. H . SMITH, RICHARDSON, DAWIDA,GANNON, WAMBACH, POTT, CAPPABIANCA and E. Z . TAYLOR

Nu. 2403 By Representative GRABOWSKI

An Act making an appropriation to the Department of Pen0- sylvania, Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States, for the replacement of a post building destroyed by fire.

Referred to Committee on APPROPRIATIONS, April 14, 1982.

860 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19,

No. 2405 By Repre~entatives HASAY, STUBAN, CORNEI.L, SERAFINI, R. C. WRIGHT, CAWLEY, COSLETT, BELARDI, STEVENS, PHILLIPS, B. SMITH, RASCO and SlRlANNl

An Act imposing a moratorium on utility rate increase5 by the Public Utility Commission.

Referred to Committee on CONSUMER AFFAIRS, April 14, 1982.

No. 2406 By Representatives KUKOVICH, PISTELLA, CESSAR, COWELL, FLECK, COHEN, DAWIDA, MICHLOVIC, MRKONIC, VAN HORNE, HOEFFEL, H . WILLIAMS, CLARK, ITKIN and TREL1.O

An Act amending the "Milk Marketing Law.'' approved April 28, 1937 (P. L. 417, No. 1051, changing the composition of the board, further providing f o r salaries, limiting the board's power to fix prices and making relating changes.

Referred to Conlmittee on AGRlClJLTURE AND RURAL AFFAIRS, April 14, 1982.

No. 2407 By Representatives MOEHLMANN and JACKSON

An Act amending Title I8 (Crinles and Offenses) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing fur the definition of "motorcycle" further providing for the definition of "motor vehicle."

Referred to Commitleeon JUDICIARY, April 14, 1982.

No. 2408 By Representatives PICCOLA, SALVATORE, WESTON, WOGAN and PERZEL

An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for exemp- tions in bankruptcy proccedings.

Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, April 14. 1982.

I McCLATCHY, MARMION, POTT, L. E. SMITH, CESSAR, SPENCER, NOYE, PETERSON. MISCEVICH, HELSER,

1 McVERRY, FISCHER, SAURMAN, HAYES, KOLTER, WOZNlAK and FRAZIER

An act amending "The Bituminous Mine Subsidence and Land Conservation Act," approved April 27, 1966 (1st Sp. Sess., P. L. 31, No. I ) , further providing for bituminous mine subsidence and land conservation

Referred to Committee on MINES AND ENERGY MAN- AGEMENT, April 14, 1982.

No. 2411 By Representatives O'DONNELL, SALVATORE, OLIVER, BORSKI, EVANS, PUCCIARELLI, ROCKS. SWAIM, RIEGER, McMONAGLE, GRAY, DONATUCCI, DEAL, COHEN and J . D. WILLIAMS

An Act amending the act of June 27, 1939 (P. L. 1199, No. 4041, entitled "An act relating to the assessment of real and personal property and other subjects of taxation in counties of the first class. *** prescribing the records of assessments; and repeal- ing existing laws," authorizing deferral of taxes as to certain increased assessments.

Referred to Committee on URBAN AFFAIRS, April 14, 1982.

No. 2412 By Representatives CRIECO, LEVI, CIMINI, PETRARCA, WASS, FARGO, CUNNINGHAM, PHILLIPS and BELFANTI

An Act amending [he "Fuel Use Tax Act," approved January 14, 1952 (1951 P. L. 1965, No. 5501, allowing for time for immediate payment of the tax in certain cases.

COCHRAN, LUCYK, BURNS, SEVENTY, MOWERY, LESCOVITZ, DeMEDIO, PETRARCA, KUKOVICH, BURD, F. E . TAYLOR, GEIST, CLARK. OLASZ.

An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, of the Pennsylvania Consolidaled Statutes, further defining "child" and further providing for trancfer from criminal pro- 14, ceedings in juvenile matters. No. 2413 By Representatives DAVIES, GEIST,

Referred to Committee on JUDICIARY, April 14, 1982. PETERSON, WILSON, BRANDT, WASS,

No. 2409 By Representatives HAGARTY, SNYDER, MAIALE, PICCOLA, McVERRY, FRAZIER, CANNON, SAURMAN, CORNELL. WOGAN, VROON, JOHNSON, DAIKELER, GREENWOOD, SWAIM, HEISER, MERRY, PETERSON and BOYES

An Act amending Title 42 (Judiciary and Judicial Procedure) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, providing for post conviction relief and making a repeal.

Referred to Commitleeon JUDICIARY, April 14,1982

No. 2410 By Representatives J . L. WRIGHT, ITKIN, STAIRS, SWEET, TELEK, WASS,

FARGO, BOWSER, STEWART, PETRARCA, KOLTER, CLARK, BELFANTI, CESSAR, DAIKELER, SAURMAN, LEVIN, LIVENGOOD, LESCOVITZ, TIGUE, COLAFELLA, NAHILL, J. L. WRIGHT, CLYMER, STEVENS, COSLETT, SPITZ, MICOZZIE, LEVI, CIVERA, KLINGAMAN, MOEHLMANN, JACKSON, PUNT, RASCO, GRUPPO, RITTER, TELEK, BROWN. ARTY and MORRIS

An Act amending Title 75 (Vehicles) of the Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes, further providing for speed timing devices.

SB 1309, PN 1640

Referred to Committee on FINANCE, April 14, 1982.

1982 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 861

HOUSE RESOLUTION INTRODUCED AND REFERRED

Referred to Committee on TRANSPORTATION, April 14, 1982.

SENATE BILLS FOR CONCURRENCE

The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, presented the following bills for concurrence:

SB 1046, PN 1791

Referred to Committee on LABOR RELATIONS, April 14, 1982.

SB 1299, PN 1731

Referred to Committee on URBAN AFFAIRS, April 14, 1982.

No. 178 By Representatives COSLETT, SHUPNIK, STEVENS, BELFANTI, J. L. WRIGHT, HASAY, WARGO, TIGUE, BLAUM, CAWLEY, LUCYK, BELARDI, SERAFINI, GEORGE and PHILLIPS

House urges Department of Environmental Resources withdraw proposed regulations relating to anthracite coal.

Referred to Committee on RULES, April 14, 1982.

LEAVES OF ABSENCE GRANTED

This tour is being arranged by the U.S. State Department for the purpose of meeting with local German state officials to discuss the future of N.A.T.O.

Kindest personal regards. Sincerely, Fred C. Noye

FCN:kmp

The SPEAKER. Without objection, leaves will be granted. The Chair hears no objection.

The Chair recognizes the minority whip for the purpose of taking leaves of absence.

Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, at this time we have no requests for leaves.

The SPEAKER, The Chair thanks the

STATEMENT BY MR. PICCOLA

TERCENTENARY COMMITTEE ON THIS DAY IN HISTORY

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Dauphin, Mr. Piccola.

Mr. PICCOLA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. On these days in history, April I8 and 19, 1861, the first

northern Civil War camp was established near Harrisburg. Camp Curtin was created in response to a call from President Lincoln. Before the end of April of that year, 25 regiments had been sent into the Civil War conflict from Camp Curtin and the counties of Pennsylvania. In fact, the troops arrived at Camp Curtin in such numbers that temporary shelter was erected on all public grounds. This was done within 3 days after the President's call for volunteers. The camp was established on the grounds of what was the Dauphin County Agri-

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority whip for the purpose o f taking Republican leaves of absence.

Mr. CESSAR. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1 do request leaves today for the gentleman from Wash-

ington, Mr. FISCHER, for today's session; the gentleman from Perry, Mr. NOYE, for the week; also, the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. FRAZIER, for today's session.

1 would also like t o submit for the record, on behalf of ~ e ~ r e s e n t a t i v e Noye, a letter as to why he is not present today.

Mr. CESSAR submitted the following letter for the Legis- lative Journal:

House of Representatives Commonwealth of Pennsylvania

Harrisburg April 7, 1982

Honorable Richard J . Cessar House of Representatives Room 120, Main Capitol Building Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17120 Dear Rick:

I am requesting a leave of absence for the week of April 19th for the purpose of attending a N.A.T.O. Fact Finding Mission sponsored by the Young Political Leaders of America.

cultural Society near the tracks of the Pennsylvania Railroad and less than a quarter of a mile from the Susquehanna River.

Initially the camp was to be called Camp Union. However, those in charge of the rendezvous site quickly changed the name to Camp Curtin t o honor the beloved and patriotic Gov- ernor o f the Commonwealth who had acted so swiftly to establish the camp for the Pennsylvania troops.

The first troops dispatched from Camp Curtin boarded the same train they had arrived on and headed to Fort McHenry to assist in the defense of the Nation's Capital. Late in July of that year, the United States Congress adopted a resolution citing the gallantry displayed by these Pennsylvania volunteers as they passed through an unruly mob of southern sympathizers in Baltimore on their way to Washington.

It is of interest t o note that another Pennsylvanian, Galusha A. Grow, then Speaker of the House of Representa- tives of the United States, signed that resolution. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

STATEMENT ON LEGISLATION TO BE INTRODUCED

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Clearfield, Mr. George, who requests unanimous consent t o make a statement. The Chair hears no objection. The Chair recognizes the gentleman.


Mr. GEORGE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I do not believe there is any real difference of

opinion among the members of both sides of the aisle as to the ineffectiveness of the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commis- sion. In the l a ~ t year alone, rate increases of more than $I billion to public utilities and the prospect of at least an equal amount this year is a constant cause of concern among the millions of ratepayers who are finding it increasingly difficult t o pay their bills, and it should be a cause of concern for us who are responsible for overseeing a regulatory agency that has ceased to fulfill its obligation to the people.

I do not know if we can pinpoint the blame on an individual or individuals, besause I believe the PUC commissionerr by and large are attempting to serve their stewardships to the best of their ability. I believe the hcart of the problem is the PUC itself because of its makeup and because of the complex- ities of regulating all those industries which come under the PUC umbrella. We have an agency that is spread too thin and an agency that has become almost totally ineffective.

I am introducing legislation today that proposes to makc sweeping changes in the Pennsylvania Public Utility Commis- sion. My bill u,ould set up three separate and independent divisions under a new public utility commission - transportation, communications, and fixed utilities - each concen- trating on its own problems and regulations; tach run by three commissioners who would be elected by the public. 1 believe there is a crying need for this legislation today and especially for the immediate years ahead.

Mr. Speaker, I ask that those members who hear my plea and who wish to join me in sponsorship of this legislation come forth in the coming days to do so, because I feel more than ever that I do not stand here alone and hear those cries from my constituents.

We have tried vainly in the past several years to be able to get the Public Utility Commission to listen to those cries as we are forced to do. Some years ago, on a dozen attempts, we tried to eliminate the fuel adjustment clause, only to have the commission, after a couple of years of apathy, extend to us a new proposal, which is the net fuel or energy allowance. There just does not seem to be any answer hat we can pin uponfhat Public Utility Commission. I believe for too long that chat Public Utility Commission, which happens to be an arm of the legislature, should either be dismembered, if you will, or that we should disband it and come forth with a new approach to an old problem. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

LEAVES OF ABSENCE GRANTED

The SPEAKER. Without objection, the Chair returns to leaves of absence. The Chair hear2 no objection.

The Chair recognizes the minority leader. Mr. IRVIS. Thank you. Mr. Speaker. We ask for a leave of absence for the gentleman from

Philadelphia, Mr. BARBER, for today's session, and the gentleman from Allegheny. Mr. MISCEVICH. for the week.

The SPEAKER. Without objection, leaves will be granted. The Chair hears no objection.

MASTER ROLL CALL RECORDED

The SPEAKER. The Chair is about to take today's master roll call. Members please report immediately t o the floor. Members will proceed to vote.

The following roll call was recorded:

PRESENT-195

Alden Anderson

Hcrson Llltlle Blaunl Barski Howser Boyei Brarldt Braiin Rurd Buroh Caltagirone Cappabianca Caule, Ccsiar Ccmitli Ciiera Clark Clylncr Cuchrail Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coilett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeeie Daikelsr I)a\ies Vamida Deal Vier, Dininni Dombrowsk> Vonati~cci Don Duf fy Durham tmrrron t b a n h

Barber Fibcher

Flcck Foncr. W . W. Faster, J r . , A . Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen (;amble Cannot, Ceiit George tiladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Crieco Gruirza Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgos Hutchinson. A . Irvis

Livengood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy hlclnlyrc McMonagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiiler Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozrie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasr Oliver Pendlelon Perrel Pelerson Pelrarca Petrane

Itkm Phillips Jackson Piccola Johnson Pievsky Kanuck Pistella Kennedy Pitts Klingaman Pott Koltcr Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukovich Punt Lashinger Rappapon Laughlin Rarco Lehr Reber Lcscovit~ Richardson Lellerman Riege~ Levi Ritter Levin Rocks Lruir Rybak

ADDITIONS-0

NOT VOTING-0

EXCUSED-5

Frarier Miscevich

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Siriann~ Smith, B. Smith, E. H. Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor. E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trella Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Weneer ~~~.~~

Wiggins Williams, H. Williams, J. D Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R. Wright, J . L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Soeaker

OFFICERS OF MODEL LEGISLATURE PRESENTED

The SPEAKER. The Chair is pleased at this time to turn over the gavel to Mr. Thomas L. Courtney, who over this past

1982 LEGISLATIVE

weekend, together with over 100 other members of the State YMCA youth and government program, participated in a weekend conference using these chambers. Mr. Courtney was the acting Speaker of the House. Tom is from Somerset County. He is a constituent of Mr. Lloyd's of this House. At this time it gives me great pleasure to turn over the gavel to him for a short period of time so that he might introduce the other members of the government that presided over this weekend.

The Chair would hope that Mr. Courtney is more successful than the Chair in maintaining order in the House. Mr. Court- ney.

Mr. COURTNEY. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. At this time 1 would like to introduce our Youth Governor,

Mr. John Matthews. I would also like to introduce our Youth Lieutenant Governor, Miss Carol Brooks.

Mr. Speaker, honorable Representatives of the Common- wealth, I have heen a member o f the Model 1.egislature program for the past 4 years, this year being my last year as a participant. As a reporter t o the Capitol Courier, which is the Model Legislature ne\vspaper. 4 years ago I was assigned to this House and its committees, t o report on them. That year I was very enthused when I came home from flarrisburg. It was the greatest time I think that I have ever had in my life. I was really looking forward to going to rhe Model 1.egislature program the next year, but I was very sad that it was going to take a whole year until that time came around again.

I have served as a committee chairperson in our Model Leg- islature for 2 years, as chairperson o f the Transportation Committee and o f the Urban Affairs Committee. This year I was very pleased to be the Speaker of the liouse and very amazed at all the duties and responsibilities that the Speaker incurs.

At this time I would just like to read through the six hills that we sent to our Youth Governor's desk for his signing. Five of them were signed into law; one was not. The first bill is the Mineral Righis Clause and Deed Act. This was signed by our Youth Governor. The second bill had to do with drunken drivers getting stiffer penalties for accidents involving drunk drivers. This was also signed into law. The third bill our Youth Governor considered was the Farmland Sewage Act. He also signed this. The percentage tax basis on fuel in order to give a percentage to the tax on fuel in order that this tax may keep up with inflation, this was also signed into law. The Senior Citizens Protection Acr, providirig for stiffer penalties for those criminals attacking and abusing senior citizens, this uas also signed into law. The only bill that was vetoed by our Governor was a movement to amend Article XV of the Penn- sylvania School Code in order to drop 10 days in the winter- time from the school schedules ip save on cnergy. This time would then be added at the end of the school year making a school year of 180 days. This was vetoed.

Thank you for your attention. The SPEAKER. The Chair at this time recognize5 the gen-

tleman, John E. Matthews, who served in the role o f Gove r nor over the past weekend. Your Excellency.

JOURNAL-HOUSE 863

Mr. MATTHEWS. Thank you very much. Mr. Speaker, honorable members o f this House of Repre-

sentatives, I think it is curious that 3 days ago I stood in this vcry spot and addressed a joint session o f our Model Legisla- ture. I stood here and I spoke of the importance of our program, which is what 1 would like to speak of right now. I spoke to that joint session o f the importance of the ideas, the concepts, and the direction that the youth of the Common- wealth must have. I would like to ask you to take an interest in our youth and government program, t o take an interest in the importance of having youth discuss the problems of our society, because it is the youth of today who will be sitting out there in your very seats tomorrow, who will be directing the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania.

Our program offers a number of advantages for youth, not only the learning experience, the experience that I personally had in having to develop an administration in which I had to pro\,ide direction and to realize the importance of my position in that office, that I musi communicate with the legislature, as our Governor today must communicate with you. I stress this point: utilize the Cabinet. I think the personal learningexperi- ence went beyond just knowing the process, but having the political ability to communicate, to understand ideas, to providedirection.

1 hope that you will continue your support of our program in the future and continue to help provide leadership for tomorrow. Thank you very much.

The SPEAKER. The Chair at this time extends to these three fine people the thanks of the House, the gratitude of the people of the Commonwealth for being interested on a contin- uing basis in government. The Chair thanks the gentlemen and thelady.

The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, before the YMCA participants leave, I hope everyone did note the fact that the Speaker of the House was from Somerset County. That is probably as close as Somerset County is going to get t o being in the majority in this session of the legislatureanyway.

I also noted with a little bit of concern Speaker Courtney's comments about his eagerness for the legislative process and Governor Matthews' comments about how important it was and how those people involved in the YMCA Model Legisla- ture were someday going to be sitting in our seats. 1 would just likc to caution the gentleman that I hope his intention to d o that is not anytime soon.

Also, for the benefit of those members who havenot had an opportunity to participate and to work with the people in the YMCA program, I have had the opportunity the last 2 years to help judge the bills which have been introduced by the various YMCA organizations, and I commend that experience to other members of the legislature.

Finally, I would note with interest that Governor Matthews is the son of the PennDOT district engineer for district 9, and I noted with interest that one o f the pieces of legislation which he signed into law was one l o provide more money lo take care of the highways. I know what his father's view on that is,

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19,

and 1 guess it is like father, like son. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from

Blair, Mr. Johnson. Mr. JOHNSON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I would like to express my appreciation to Jack Matthews,

the acting Governor for the model government. He is my constituent from my district, and I certainly appreciate the fine job he did in leading this Model Legislature, model government, the fine speech he made to the House. Thank you, Gov- ernor.

CALENDAR

BILLS AGREED TO ON SECOND CONSIDERATION

The following bills, having been called up, were considered for the second time and agreed to, and ordered transcribed for third consideration:

HB 1276, PN 1415; HB 1277, P N 1886; HB 2127, P N 3005; SB 1198, PN 1735; HB 1093, P N 1688; and HB 2085, PN 2599.

BILL ON THIRD CONSIDERATION POSTPONED

The House proceeded to HB 1191, PN 1604, on third consideration postponed, entitled:

An Act amending Title 66 (Public Utilities) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for landlord ratepayers and tenants, and for notice prior to discontinuance of service.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as

amended?

The SPEAKER. The Chair would remind the members at this time that last week the last business on the calendar dealt with HB 1191, at which time amendments had been inserted.

The majority leader has provided to the members of the House a'table of contents of amendments to be offered to this particular bill. If any of the members who are scheduled to offer amendments have decided not to offer those amendments, the Chair would appreciate it if it could receive that advice prior to calling on the respective members.


amended? Mr. VROON offered the following amendments No.

A7337:

Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "for" the construction of electric generating units, for

Amend Bill, page.], by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1 . Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

N0.2301, known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by addine a section to read: 8 514. ~onst ruccon of public utility units.

Only upon the application of a public utility and the approval of the application by the commission, evidenced by a construction permit granted by the commission, shall it be lawful for the

Amend Sec. 1, page 1, lines 8 through 10, by striking out the comma after "66" in line 8, all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes.'' in line 10

Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and inserting

3 Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6 , by striking out "3" and insert-

ing 4

On the question, Will the House agree to the amendments?

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, there has been a great deal of discussion and a great deal of demand on the part of this legislature, both the House and the Senate, for some kind of a need for a certificate of eligibility, a construction permit, or whatever you want to call it. I call it a construction permit because I want to be extremely broad in my nomenclature, and this amendment to this bill calls for the mandatory issuance of a construction permit by the Public Utility Commis- sion whenever a public utility of any kind wishes to build a new facility. It also requires that the Public Utility Commis- sion obtain from the public utility involved all of the information, with emphasis on all, not just a stipulated list of requirements but everything that can possibly pertain to the application for permission to build a plant.

That is the reason for what is considered to be a rather scanty description of this. The construction permit is not easy to understand. It does not need to be defined; it is simply what it says. Any utility company that wants to build a plant or any kind of a facility has to obtain a permit to do so, to build it. A construction permit need not be defined beyond that. B U ~

then it also goes further and says that you will not issue a permit, Public Utility Commission, until all of the pertinent information has been received and evaluated by you, before construction can begin on that plant.

Now I want to mention this very important fact, too, that this point is not nearly as important as some people would have you believe. But lest we come into any kind of a repeti- tion of the building of large plants where there is a great deal of controversy on the cost of construction, such as exists currently on the Limerick plant out in Montgomery County, we want to be sure that the Public Utility Commission takes it as their duty, from here on in, to monitor very carefully all facets of the plans of public utilities to build plants in the future. There will not be very many of those plants built, I assure you. Once having gone through the trauma of Limerick and Susquehanna and several other very large costly plants, I assure you that there will not be very much demand for future public utility plants in our lifetime. So this is something which, however, is designed to safeguard the consuming

1982 LEGISLATIVE

public so that we will not be faced anymore with any possibility of a plant being built without the knowledge and consent and a thorough investigation of the Public Utility Commis- sion. On that basis, Mr. Speaker, I ask for your affirmative vote on this amendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman frorn Bucks, Mr. Wilson.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, consent to brief interrogation?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will stand. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, if your amendment were to become law and the Philadelphia Electric Company filed an application with the Public Utility Commission to construct the Limerick plant and in that application they put all the information the commission would require by its regulation, as per your amendment here, how could the Public Utiliry Commission deny PE the right to go ahead with construction if in fact they have filed their application, if in fact they have submitted the information that their rules and regulations provided for?

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, the answer to that question is rather simple. When the Public Utility Commission is ordered to issue regulations governing what goes on in the approval of a construction permit, those regulations would be so worded that all of the questions and information which are required should be answered to the satisfaction o f the PUC before a construction permit can he granted.

Mr. WILSON. Let me perhaps rephrase the question, Mr. Speaker. Your amendment says that the application shall be in writing and shall be in the form and contain the information, the information, that the commission requires by its regulations. Your amendment does not permit, your amendment does not require the PUC to set any standards; it simply says that they shall, by regulation, ask for certain information. If they submit the information that so-and-so is president o f PE as required, they have then met the requirement, and 1 would think they would have to give them the construction permit. That is my point in question.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, the answer to that is rather obvious, toe. If the information which is required is submitted or if it is not submitted, the PUC does have the authority to refuse to issue the permit; and no permit, no plant. I t is as simple as all that. They do have, very clearly implied in this amendment, the authority to deny any permit for a project that is out of order, for any reason whatsoever.

Mr. WILSON. I thank the gentleman. Mr. Speaker, on the subject? The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may

proceed. Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, 1 think we are all interested in

this review or this preview of what is a utility company going to construct, what are they going-to ask the ratepayer to pay for after they get the construction completed? I think what we would all like t o see is the Public Utility Commission have more force, more teeth, t o require this utility to show and demonstrate the need for this facility, to show and demon-

JOURNAL-HOUSE 865

strate &,hat the cost is going to be, to show that the capacity of the facility is going to be what the public needs, before they spend the money, before they come in andask the ratepayer to pick up the tab.

I think the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, is on the right track, except the track does not go far enough; it is not extended to where it should be. I read the Hayes booklet here that suggests that there are some other amendments that are coming down the line. I have one of them that, pride of authorship notwithstanding, I think is an improved version of the Vroon amendment, arld for the time being we ought t o reject, we ought to turn down this amendment in favor of a better proposal. I would urge the rejection of this amendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon, for the second time on the amendment.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, when a public utility makes plans to build a new plant, i t goes into a fact-finding planning process which lengthens out over a number o f years. Every- thing that can possibly bear on those plans is very carefully outlined and put into writing. When the public utility company decides to embark on that venture, even now they drop this off lo the Public Utility Commission, anti believe me, this is examined very carefully by the Public Utility Com- mission, and the Public Utility Commission has the power right now to suggest to the public utility company this is not a good plan, and if you go ahead with it, we will not admit it to your rate base. I t is as simple as all that. Now, let us not get into the point where we have to put every item down in great detail as to what the public utility should ask for. After all, we are not experts on public utilities in the legislature, but we do expect the public utilities experts to very carefully review the plan that the public utility company submits.

With this added feature in this amendment, I am making it mandatory just to be absolutely sure that everything that is worth talking about on that new plant is brought to the attention of (he Public Utility Commission before they issue a permit. 1 do not know how much more binding we can be. I will tell you right now that this broad amendment is far more effective than all of the detailed amendments to follow. So I urge your support of theamendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Westmoreland, Mr. Taddonio.

Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, I would support the Vroon amendment rather reluctantly. I think what we are doing here, we are getting into some complex issues which we have not considered before, and in a rather quick manner we are trying to deal with them. I would much rather have seen us study this more at length in committee. However, I would say that Rep- resentative Vroon's proposal does give some flexibility to the PUC on how they are going to write the regulations. If we do not like what they do, we can certainly come back to them again after they have written them and then at that time straighten it out. I believe he is absolutely correct when he says that we can sort of hamstring them by putting in some details here that we are really not too sure what the effects and ramifications are. So 1 would support Representative Vroon's amendment.


PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY ( The SPEAKER. All right.

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. On the question, Will the Houseagree to the motion? Wilson. desire recoenition? ~~~, ~~~ ~ -

Mr. WILSON. Yes. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman. Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, point of parliamentary

inquiry. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his point o f par-

liamentary inquiry. Mr. WILSON. Would the Chair advise the House that in

light of several amendments to the same section of this code, title 66, what is the Chair's opinion of a later amendment speaking to the same section, such ah in the Vroon amendment?

The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman repeat his question and be, if possible, more specific?

Mr. WILSON. In the booklet received itemi~ing the proposed amendments to HB 1191, we have at least three amendments that I know o f that deal with this subject matter of certificate of need, o f CWlP (construction work in progress), that same type of subject in a different manner. What happens if subsequent amendments, two or more, are approved by this body?

The SPEAKER. In response to the gentleman, Mr. Wilson, t o the extent that the gentleman would be offering amendments that are not contradictory, there would be no problem. To the extent that the gentleman would haveamendments that would contradict an earlier amendment that had been accepted, it is the opinion of the Chair that the gentleman could ask the House to suspend the rules to permit the second amendment, if you please, to be offered as a substituted amendment.

RULES SUSPENDED

Mr. WILSON. In light o f that, Mr. Speaker, could I move to suspend that rule for today's session for all the amendments? I would so move.

The SPEAKER. Is the gentleman suggesting to the Chair that the gentleman at some later time today will have an amendment that would be contradictory to the amendment now offered by the gentleman, Mr. Vroon?

Mr. WILSON. 1 would assume so under your previous ruling, Mr. Speaker, that there are several amendments that would be contradictory not only t o this amendment but to others that are being offered in their order. The question is, who picks the order? We do not; you 60. But I would suggest, in the order of fairness, that we just suspend the rule and let the last amendment take the precedent.

The SPEAKER. The Chair is of the opinion that the gentleman is in order.

The gentleman moves that the rules o f the House, specifically rule 27, be suspended for the day as it pertains to HB 1191 and the offering o f amendments t o that bill. Would the gentleman's motion also encompass HB 1380 and HB 1791?

Mr. WILSON. Wemay as well.


Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, I strongly urge a "no" vote on the suspension of the rules. What is going to happen here today is nothing but a horrible mess, and I mean mess. Weare goingxto go through one thing after another and every one that looks good, we are going to try t o vote it in. But lo and beho!d, there is another one coming down the line and that looks good, too. We do not want to be caught voting against a good amendment, even if there is something like it that has been done before. I think this is a horrible way to do things, and I very strongly urge, let us not get involved in this mess,

plcase. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from

Montgomery, Mr. Hoeffel. Mr. HOEFFEL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I support the motion. Mr. Speaker, made by Representative

Wilson. I think it is important that all the members who have similar amendments today have an opportunity to offer them in a way that will be understandable. The gentleman, Mr. Vroon, is opposed, but, of course, his amendment is the first one up. There are later ones on this same subject that 1 think are superior. I think the House ought to have a chance to decide whether or not they are superior. I do not think that the legislator who has the first crack at a particular subject should have the whole field to himself for the remainder of the legislative day. I think Representative Wilson is correct, we ought to suspend the rules, and 1 hope the House will approve that motion. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Merccr, Mr. Gruitra, on the question of the suspension of the rules.

Mr. GRUITZA. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1 also support the gentleman, Mr. Wilson's motion to

suspend the rules. I think the first amendment that came up here illustrates why we should support this motion. I think we have a very overly broad and vague amendment being offered. I think when you consider the vast resources that the public utilities have to challenge laws and challenge decisions made by the commission, we should be very careful to pass an~endments and see to it that this law, whem it is finally passed, is in tight order and will not be subject to attack by the utility industry. I think it is important that we therefore support Mr. Wilson and see to it that the amendments that are passed will stand up to court challenge and challenge by the utility companies, particularly on the basis of being overly broad or vague.


Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, I would oppose this motion. The House has functioned for years under these rules with quite a few different subject matters which have been very difficult to handle. I do not think this is the time or the place to change the ground rules. This issue of suspension of

1982 1,EGISLATIVE

the rules would transcend this particular bill, because once we would d o this, the11 we would raise the issue on cvery other piece o f leg is la ti or^ that comes down tlie pike. I think thc House in its wisdom decided that this \\as the proper way o f handling its business, and we should continue to d o i t this way and not make exceptions on a day-to-day basis. I ask for a negative \'otc.

The SPEAKER. The <:hair recognize the minority leader. Mr. IRVIS. Mr. Speaker, to the contrary of \\,hat the sen-

tleman, Mr. Taddonio, says, the House has not Functioned in this fashion in the past. The problem is in the interpretation of the rules. Mr. Speaker. The current Speaker, advised by the current Parliamentarian, has ruled that if yon offer amendment B to follow amendment A , and B uoilld change A , that is not permitted, because you cannot , under the Housc rulcs, amend an amendment. What Mr. Wilson is trying to avoid by his motion is that particular precedent, which is not the way the House has functioned in the past. 'That is \$hat the Speaker is trying to eliminate, o r at least trying to solve no\+. Mr. Wilson's motion, as I understand it, would say for this particular debate and this particular bill, the precedent set by this parlicular parliamentary rule is to be ignored because the House is going to suspend the rules. I think that i \ a \cnsiblc, practical, pragmatic way ot 5olving a \crq messy probletn which is going to arise on this particular dcbate.

I support Mr. LVilson's inotion. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from

Chester, Mr. Vroon. M r . VROON. M r . Speaker, there is one thing that \\;as

overlooked here in all o f t h i s debate, and that ic the matter of fairness. When we offer our amendment, to start with and every succeeding amendment is being offered, people on this floor know what other amendments are coming down the pike. If you want to wait until a given amendmcnt arises, then go ahead and vorc "no" on the earlier amendment. .That i , the fair way to look at it. Nou turn i t iiround. I f my amendmcnt does go through and then later on some other atncnd- mcnts arc passed which negate n ~ y arnendrnent. I d o not have any recourse after that . That is what is unfair about that procedure.

I think that in all fairness wc ougllt ro a d l i e ~ c to [he rule, and for those of you who d o not like tlie amendments that are being offered in the front , hold off and wait until the a m e n d ment you d o like is ofiered. That is the right way to d o it, and nobody will be slighted in the least.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recogni~er the minority whip, Mr. MANDEKINO. By all means, Mr. Speaker, I think we

ought to make a decision on this motion that leads to fairness. Mr. Vroon has spoken of fairness. Mr. Vroor~, I think, is sincere that members ought to be-treated fairly on the floor o f this House. But what of the fairness to a member who in January prepared an amendment to this particular piece of legislation and finds that somebody happen5 to be called earlier, maybe like Mr . Vroon, who offers almost the identical amendment with just a few changes? And rhe few changes may be significant. Docs the man who prepared hi\ amendment in January not have a chance to argue for his version of

JOURNAL-HOUSE 867

the amendment? He certainly ought to have that opportunity to argue for his version of the amendment.

Llr. Vroon prepared on Wednesday of last week amendment number 5 , at least folder number 5. That is identical except for one Tentence to an amendment that I prepared in January that you will find on page 30. Now, if we d o not 5uspend the rule5 as Mr. Wilson says. I will never have the opportunity to talk about the amendment that I prepared in Januar) , because Mr. Vroon, having offered the first amendment speaking to the same subject matter, will have pre- empted the field.

N o u , in the past, as the minority leader has indicated, we ha \e always allowed the I.egislafivc Reference Bureau to mold the amendment?. If I offer an amendment that is different than \\.hat Mr. Vroon has offered, I will have a n opportunity to explain why it is different, and members of the House then can decide, i5 there something better in this second amendment or d o I like the first one thal has already been adopted? Arid if I like the First one, then 1 d o not have t o adopt the second one.

Mr. Speaker, not to allow the suspension of the rules in this hinil OF an affair in the kinds o f amendments that are coming ilp today, where we have so many amendments speaking to the 5ame subject matter, what you really d o is leave in the Speakcr'r hands, by his choice o l whom to call first on an amendment, what direction the final piece of legislation will take, and 1 think that there is a n unfairness t o that, especially to those members who have for some time had their amendments prepared, distributed, and talked about by other inembers o f the House. I support the Wilson motion to cuipend the rule5 in this circumstance, Mr . Speaker.

0,1 the question recurring, W i l l the House agree to the motion?

The fol louing roll call was recorded:

YEAS-I I2

Aildcr,o~, Fargo Lucyk Seventy 13rlardi 1 ee Mclntyre Showers Bcltanli f ~ r ) e r McMonagle Shupnik Herson Gallagher Mat ale Smith, B. I31a~~xn Gallcn Mandcrino Spitz

(inmblc Michlovlc Steighner Bo)e, (jeorge Morris Stewart "'On" Graboushi Mrkonic Stuban B o r n \ Greenfield Mullen Swaim C.;,l,ugirunc (;reenwood h,urphy Sueet C;ippabiani.a (;rutria O'Donnell Taylor. E. Z. c"'i'y Halusla Olasr Taylor, F. E. Clark Harpcr Oliver Tigue ( .o la le l la Hocliel Pendlcton Treilo colr Horgos Pe~rarca Van Horne

Hulchinioo, A . I'errone Wachob ('oucll l r \ l \ Pievsky Wambach Deh,edlo l l h ln I'iarrlla Wargo l)e\Vr.e\e Koller Prau Wass "a"'C' Kowalyrhyn Puuclarelli Wigglns llauida Kuko\ich Rappaport Williams, H.

1 aoghlin Rcber Williams, J . D. Dombroubki 1 ehr Rlchardion Wilson

Le,coiitr Rieger Wogan lhi t ) Letrcrnian Rctter Wozniak

t.cv!n Rocks Wright, D. R . Cmcr,an liiengoad Rybak Wright. J . L. Cianr Ltoid Serafini Zwikl


Armstrong I:aitei. U'. M. McClarchy Saliatore Any Foster, J i . . A . h,lc\'erry Saurmvn Bittle Freind MacLuwrk> Sieminakl

If you want to wait a while, a little later on today there will be some amendments that 1 think have more teeth, have some effect, will do something constructive, and will be helpful to the eeneral rateoaver and not detrimental to anv utilitv - . .

Bowser Ganoon Madisan Sirianni Brandt Geist Manmiller Smith, E . H. company.

Burd Gladeck hlarmion Smith. L . E . I would urge a negative vote on this amendment in the inter. Cessar Cimini Civera Clyrner Cochran Cornetl Coilett Cunnineham

Grieco Ciruppo Hagarty Haiay Hayes klciscr Honaman Jack\on

Zlrrry Ll!soriie hlilier hloehlma~irl Mower) Nahill Perrcl Peterson

Sn!der Spencer Stalrs Stercns Swift Taddui~io relel Vroon

~ c ~ e r t ; Johnron I't~illipr Wenper Daikciei Kennedy Piccoia W e w n Dietr Klinpnman Pitts Dininni 1.ashinger Port Kyan, Dorr l c v i Punt Speaker Fleck Lewii Raico

NOT VOTING-6

Alden Cohen Kaauck Wrlghr. K . C Beioff Grab

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frarier Lliscc\ich Noye Fischer

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the motion was aereed to.

G

On the question recurring,

Will the House agree to the amendments?


Mr. VROON. Just because of all the intervening time, Mr. Speaker, I would like to reiterate what this amendment is all about.

This amendment, Mr. Speaker, provides for a construction permit which is mandatory and which will insist that . the public utility company do a good, thorough job on determining whether or not a plant is needed before they issue that permit.

I think it is a very good, all-embracing amendment. It is wider than anything else that you will find subsequently. 1 urge your support for this amendment. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Wilson.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, through the debate on the motion to suspend the rules, I am sure the House has gotten the feeling for what is going on here today. If the members want to go home and tell their constituents that they voted for something that limits construction, if they want to go home and tell their constituents that they voted for something that they really do not know what it does bur i t supposedly, alleg- edly, is going to make the utility companies come in and own up to whatever theyare going to construct, whatever they are going to put in place, where they are going to put it, how big it is going to be, what its capacity is going to be, and how much it is going to cost, you go ahead and vote for this amendment, because it does not d o that, but you can go home and tell your constituents that it does.

est of the ratepayer. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, I rise in support of the

Vroon amendment. 1 have difficulties, as Mr. Wilson bas, with the Vroon amendment in that i t speaks t o a certificate- of-need process, and I think we all agree that we need a certificate-of-need process in the building of new electrical generating facilities.

M r . Vroon also speaks in his amendment to a certificate-of- need process for other utilities besides electrical generating utilities, and I am not so sure that the same certificate-of-need process is necessarily needed. I do not see an abuse: I do not see a public outcry for a certificate of need in other areas, although I will not foreclose the possibility that maybe there should be a certificate of need.

I do have the problem with no standards being set in this particular amendment, yet 1 am going to ask for an affirmative votc, because it does recognize that i t is time that the Public Utility Commission of Pennsylvania be given the tools to decide whether or not new generating equipment, new generating plants, new facilities, should go on line for the public utilities in Pennsylvania.

I think the legislation that we write to create the certificate of need ought t o be a lot more detailed, but in the event that we arc unable to get a consensus of that detailed standard here in the assembly, 1 think Mr. Vroon's amendment goes a long way in establishing a policy of the General Assembly and a direction that we would like the PUC to go in in permitting additional generating facilities in the Commonwealth. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, would the maker of the amendment stand for one or two questions of interrogation?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Vroon, indicates he will stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, as I understand, there are con- siderations now for a utility corporation in western Pennsyl- vania to seek out hydro facilities out of Virginia. I do not know the potential or the amounts o f productivity of those facilities. Would this type of amendment place a restraint or restriction upon that type of out-of-State cooperation with other utilities that in effect would come under, I believe, the jurisdiction of the Federal authority, and just how does this delineate betwe'en those projects that are part and parcel of Federal approval as well as PUC approval and those that stand just within the Commonwealth?

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, are you asking what happens to public utility companies that cooperate and collaborate with the utility companies from other States in the building of a plant which might not be built in the State of Pennsylvania?


On the question, Wil l the House agree to rhc bill on third consideration as

amended? Mr . VROON offered the following amendment% No.

A7313:

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by striking out "and" where i t appears the second time

Amend Title, page I , line 4, by remo\'inf the period alter "service" and inserting

and empowering the commissiot~ to conduct certain annual studier on Federal tax credits and dcferrals.

Amend Bill, page I , by inserting hct-em lines h and 7 Section I. Title h6, act of November 25, I970 (P.L.707,

No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Sratuter, i s amended by addinn a sectior~ to read: . $ 514. Study of t'edcral tau credits and dekrrals.

The commission shall undertake a comprchensivc stuily in cooperation with approprialc Federal and State agencies, i nc l t~d~ ing the Federal Energy Regulatory Corrlmicsion and the ltiternal Revenue Servicc, to determine the dollar value of the dcfcrred Federal taxes of Pennsyl~ania electric utilities with gross annual revenue in excess of $2,500,000. The study shall he dirxted to findings on:

(1) The amount o l investment tan credit generated each year since 1971

(2) An annual summary of the accelerated depreciation of Federal tax deferral receibed since 1970.

(3) The irrlpact on present and futurc utility rate5 of the availability or t~onavailability of such tax credits and deferrals.

~ h e ~ m m i s s i o n shall have 180 days to prepare this sttidy. making it current as of thc previous tax year. rhereaitcr, the commission shall publish an annual update.

Amend Sec. I , pagc I , line 7, by striking out "I" and inserting

2 Amend Sec. I , page I , lines 8 through 10, b) striking out the

comma after "66" in line 8, all of line Y and "Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes," in line 10

Amend Sec. 2, pagc 2, line 25. by striking out "2" where i t appears the rirst time and inserting

3 Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6, by striking out "3" and insert-

ing 4

On the question, Wil l the House agree to the amendments'?

WELCOME

The SPEAKER. The Chair at this time i s pleased to welcome to the hall o f the House a group of cosmctologists from Lycoming County, here today as the guests o f the Rep- resentatives from that county, Mr . Cimini and Mr . Grieco.

CONSIDERATION OF HB 1191 CONTINUED

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr . Vroon.

Mr. VROON. Mr . Speaker, amendment A7313 i s a very interesting amendment, and I must say that this i s a very well conceived amendment proposed originally by Mr . Mand- erino, and 1 am apologizing to Mr . Manderino for taking his

amendment. However, there i s one very important provision \vhich I inserted into this amendment which I considered to be so necessary that I did not know o f any other way that 1 could do it except introduce a new amendment. So with apologies to Mr. hlanderino, I am offering this.

This i s a requirement that Federal tax credits and Federal tax deferrals he studied intensively by the PUC in order to determine horn much o f this has accumulated over the years. We would like to know that. I would like to know i t just as well as anybody else in this House. But what i s very important to me i s the bottom line, and that is item number (3) in this amendment, "The impact on present and future utility rates of the availability or nonavailability of such tax credits and dcferrals." I t is the impact that i s all-important. We should knon that. Once we know that, we know whether or not we should proceed further and make any corrections in the procedure. I think this i s a good amendment, and I urge your approval of i t . Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr . MANDERINO. Mr . Speaker. 1 urge an adoption of

thc Vroon amendment. Mr . Vroon has indicated [he importance of the PUC keeping track of the investment tzx credit and the accelerated depreciation and the other tax breaks that are given l o ulility companies but are not passed on to the consumer in Pennsylvania. Thc consumer pays for his utility bill with the assumption that the utility company i s paying the Federal income tax without a tax break. So we are paying into 3 pot what has been called by some a phantom tax, because we are paying what the utility should have paid in the IRS (Inter- rlal Revenue Service) tax but does not pay because o f a special trcatmcnt given to the utility by the Federal Government. And the Federal Government not only gives the special Lreatment

but says to the utility, you can only have this special treatment so long as you do not pass the break on to the consumer.

NOM,, that being the status of the law, Mr . Speaker, we think it i s very important that we keep track over the years of this tax that i s being paid, and I agree also with Mr. Vroon that the reason we want to keep track o f i t i s so that we know exaclly what effect i t has had in the past, i f any, and what effect i t should have in the future on rates. And that i s what i t is all about, and that i s why I prepared the original bill that was put into committee and I prepared the amendment to this bill.

Mr. Speaker, I had prepared remarks on an amendment that I will handle later on by withdrawing, but 1 will submit them to Mr . Vroon's amendment regarding this matter.

REMARKS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD

Mr. MANDERINO submitted the following remarks fol the Legislative Journal:

Present laws dealing with investment tax credits and accelerated depreciation allow public utilities to collect taxes from their customers at one rate and to pay the Federal Government at a lower rate. The utility winds up keeping the difference and-using it as working capital. The U.S. Congress gave utilities this tax break in 1971 and has denied Stares the opportunity to pass the savings on to customers. Since 1971, our State's utility customers have "loaned" their utility companies billions of interest free


This amendment deals with the need to ha\c a carelht and late this information and disclose it to the public already can. accurate accounting of thew tax credit dollarc. The PUC is 11 i u s t seems t o tklat i t is a ridiculous burden on the Public

being used, and this proposed accounting procedure g i ~ e s thcm th15 1s truly an unnecessary function that we are asking gov- that right. There is also a po\sibility that such Sorced ini'cstmcnt I crnnlcnt " to do. I think the amendment should be defeated.

directed to underrake a study of the amount of tax crcditc that have hccn generated since 1971. Thcrcaftel, on an atitiual basis, the PUC would be required to update this accounting.

I t i h the right of customers to knosb i~ou. their rate paymerlts are

, , t i l i t ) . Commission to have them accumulate information that the private sector in their annual reports is already providing. \b'c are talking about cutting government, and then

keeping of records on behalf of consumers.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentlernan h-on1 Bucks. Mr. Wilson.

Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, consen1 to one question, please'!

The SPEAKER. The gentleman does. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. WIL.SON. Mr. Speaker, alter this report is prepared- and as 1 rcad the amendment down here, i t shall publish an annual update-will this in fact be available to the public'?

Mr. VROON. flow niucti material that is issued by the PUC is available to the public'? 1 d o not k n o r .

Mr. WILSON. Quite frankly, 1 d o not knob either, and I would just like the record to show that i t might be your intent to offer this as an amendment that would be opcn to the public if in fact the report is made.

Mr. VROON. M r . Speaker, I would surely likc to see i t available to the public, and I am aisuniing that i t will be tilade available to the public for anybody who want, to see i t , and I would surely say that is our intent in this axr~endment.

Mr. WILSON. 1 thank the gentlctnan, Mr. Speaker, and 1 urge an afl'irn~ative vote.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentlernan from Allegheny, Mr. P o u .

Mr. POTT Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Will the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, consent to brief inler-

rogation? The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he rill. The gem

tleman, h4r. Pott , may proceed.

through the tax laws might he Si~und unconstitutional. Such a finding was recently made by the California Supreme Court. ~rhich held that by continuou%ly rolling over invcctmcnts and tax credits, utilities wcrc achieving tax iorgi\encss, not tax delerrai. This possibility-howcvcr remote-also lustific\ the accurate

Mr. POTT. Mr. Speaker, have you c.er read the published annual reports of various clectric utility companies in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania?

Mr. VKOON. Yes, I have, Mr. Speaker. Mr. POTT. In your reading of those reports, did you note

that the information that you are having the Public Utility Commission accumulatc is already accutnulatcd in those reports and is disclohed to anyone who %ants to read them?

Mr. VROON. Yes, that is right, Mr. Speaker. But I knob that most people d o not eL8en know where to look

Mr. POTT. I have concluded my interrogation. I would like to make a bricf statement, if I may, Mr.

Thank you , The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr.

Vroo". for the second time on the question. Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, if what you say is true, that

Speaker. The SPEAKER. The gentlenian is in order. Mr. POTT. I t seems to me that this information is pub-

lished in repoKts to shareholders already, and any legislator, anv member of the news media who would desire to accumu-

evcry public utility annual report discloses this information in it, then i t is also true that all of these reports are available to the Public Utility C'ommissiorr, and i t is just a very, very simple matter to add them all together and t o produce the infortnation we need. I really d o not think it is a valid objection at all, and I think we should vote for this amendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Sorner~et, Mr. Lloyd.

M r . I.LOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Vcry briefly, I risc to support the amendment. The crucial

point about the Vroon amendment is the requirement for the first time that the Public Utility Commission attempt to determine the truth or the untruth of the phantom tax argument. That i \ the issue to which the gentleman, Mr. Manderino, referred. So the important question here is not just getting in one place all o f the summation of the tax deferrals but to find out uhether the accounting or the rate-case treatment that we are giving to those taxes in Pennsylvania really is benefiting lhe consumer. And up to now, while this information may be abailablc in piecemeal fashion at the Public Utility Commis- sion, nobody has attempted to bring it together and d o that kind of analysis.

I suezest that the gentleman, Mr. Vroon's amendment is a good step in that direction, and I urge adoption of the amendment.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments?

The'following roll call was recorded:

n d e r h o n Art) Belard) Bcltarlt~ Uercon Bittic u1aom Bar ,k~ Ha*,er Boyct Hrandl Hrobn I3urd I ~ U ~ O S

YEAS-186

Fce I ucyk Fleck McClatchy s t . W Melntyre I.ohlcr, J r . . A . McMonagle l r e i n d McVerry t q r r hlilckowikl Gallazlier M'diaie Gallen Manderino Gamblc llanmiller Geict hlarmlon George Merry Gladeck Michlovic Grabowski Micorrie Greenfield Miller

('alraglrone (ireenwood MOehlmann Cappabianca Gricco Morris Cawle) Gruilia hlowery ( crrar Gruppo hlrkonic Cin~ini Hagarry Mullen Ciiera Haiusla Murphy Clark Harper Nah~ll ( ' Iymrr Hasay O'Donnell ('ochran Haycs Olasz

Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sicminiki Sirlanni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Smith. L. E . Snyder Spencer Spitr Stairs Steiehner " Stevens Stewart Stuban Swairn Sweet Swift Taddanio Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. E.


Colafella Cole Cordisca Cornell Cosleu Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler

Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horpos Hutchinson, Irvis llkin .lackson Johnson Kennedy Klingarnan

Oliver Telck Pendlcton Tigue Perzel Trelio Peter5on Van Hornc

A. Petrarsa Vroon Petrone Wachob Phillips Wamhach Piccola Wargo Piersly Wass Pistella Wenger Pills Weiron

Davier Kolter Pratt Wiggins Dawida hawalyshyn Pucciarelli William>, H. Deal Kukovich Punt U'illiami. J . D Dietz L.aahineer Ranna~orl Wilpnn Dininni Dombrowski Danatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans Fargo

Armstrong

Alden Beioff

Barber Fircher

. . . l.augh& Raicu Lehr Rrber I.cscovitr Richardson Lettcrrnan Kirger Lcbi Ritter Levin Rocks Lewis Rybak Livengood Salkatorr L.loyd Saurman

NAYS-2

P0tt

NOT VOTING-7

Cohen Cjra) Gannon Kanuck

EXCUSED-5

~~~~

Wagan M o ~ n i a k Wright, D. R . Wright, J . L . Wright. R . C . ZwiLI

Ryan , Speaker

Madigan

NO ye

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to.



A7310:

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by striking out "and" where i t appears the second time

Amend Title, page 1, line 4, by removing the period after "service'! and inserting

and for management audits. Amend Bill, page 15, by inserting between lines 5 and 6 Section 3. Title 66 is amended by adding a section to read:

5 1707. Management audits. (a) Audits mandated.-For any public utility with assets of

$7,500,000 or more, the commission shall at intervals nor less than four years or greater than sin years apart:

( I ) Make a complete management audit of every public utilitv.

accounting or management consulting firms for the performance of the required audits. Any firm performing any such audit shall, as a condition of the contract, refrain from any affiliation or employment with the audited public tltility for a period of two years following the completion of the audit unless authorized by the commission.

(c) Audit power not limited.-This section shall in no way limit rhc commission's power to audit or investigate any public utility in its discretion.


4



Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, we are also very much aware of the fact that we want t o know how well public utility companies are being managed, and although there is a great deal of management auditing going on at the present time by the Public Utility Commission, I d o not think it is wrong to go ahead and tell them that we want to be a little bit more regular and a little bit more emphatic about these management audits. I personally am concerned that these public utility companies are managed well, and 1 d o not see that it can d o any harm whatsoever to insist that they be audited as far as their man- agements are concerned. I d o not believe either that the public utility companies would mind this, because if there is information that is developed by such an audit, it should inure to the benefit of the utilities as well as their customers.

In this particular amendment 1 must also credit Mr. Wilson with having come up with the original amendment, the original idea on this. But again, in order to change this amendment to reflect a much-needed change, 1 ask for your suppdrt of this particular one which has $7 1/2 million stipulated under item (a) instead of $1 million. The big difference between $7 1/2 million and $I million is that we go into the class A type of utility and above. These utilities are the utilities that spend a lot o f money, that d o a lot of business, and which have a lot of management t o audit. The utilities that have assets of less than $7 1/2 million are certainly not those types o f utilities which are costing our ratepayers very much money, even if they are not managed as well as they might be.

T o spend all of the money that is required to audit every 1 small utility under $7 1/2 million in assets is not worth the

money spent, and that is the reason for the change. 1 beg the pardon of my colleague, but I think this is a better amendment for that big reason. I urge your acceptance.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, will the gentleman, Mr.

1 Vroon, consent to brief interrogation? The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Vroon, indicates he

will consent to brief interrogation. The gentleman may I proceed. I

Will the gentleman yield a moment?


MR. ANDERSON REQUESTED TO PRESIIIE

T h e S P E A K E R . Will the gentleman from York, Mr. Anderson. come t o the rostrum? T h e Chair asks thc gcntle- man , Mr. Anderson, to preside temporarily.

THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE (JOHN HOPE ANDERSON) IN THE CHAIR


T h e S P E A K E R pro tempore. T h e gentleman. Mr. Mand- erino, may proceed.

Mr. M A N D E R I N O . Mr. Speaker, the amendment [hat you have offered speaks to a management audit and speaks t o ascertain the quality of service in ( I ) a n d (2) under subsection (a) of section 1707. 1 have a concern a n d really a question about what this would cover. There have been from time t o time reports that some utilitie5 d o not receive the quality o f energy-and in many cases we are talking about coai-that they should be getting f rom subsidiaries having regard t o the B. t .u . (British thermal unit) ou tpu t of that particular brand o f energy. I a m wondering whether o r not your audit is broad enough t o cover that kind o f management a n d that kind o f look-see into the quality of service. D o you envision it being that broad?

Mr. VROON. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I surely do . T h e first item there says that it make a complete management audit of every public utility. A complete management audit surely must include that , Mr. Speaker.

Mr. M A N D E R I N O . S o we are not just talking about a fiscal audit that you paid $13 o r $43 a ton for so many tons o f coal. W e are also going t o be looking into whether o r not that price is appropria te fo r that kind o f coal.

Mr. VROON. Everything i5 included in that kind of a n audi t , Mr. Speaker, a n d I would be the last one t o say that anything s h o t ~ l d be exempt.

M r . M A N D E R l N 3 . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I urge adopt ion of the amendment .

O n the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments?

T h e following roll call was recorded: I Anderson Armstrong Arty Bclardi Eelfanti Rerson Rittle Blaum Borski Bowier Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirane Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimlni

rircli Foster. W. W . Foster. J r . . A . Freind Fryer Ciallaghrr Gallen Gamble tiannon Geist tieorgc tiladeck Grabowski Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitla Gruppo Hagarty Haluska

McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackowik i 'vladigan Maiale Mandcrino !vlanmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozrie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonlc Mullcn Murph)

Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smlrh. E. H Smith, I . , t. Snyder Spencer Spit? Stairs Steiphner Srcvenn Stewart Stuban Swalrn Sweet

Civera Harper Nahill Swift Clari Haiay O'Donnell Taddonio Clymer Haye5 Olasr Taylor, E. 2. Cuchran Heisrr Oliver Taylor, F. E. Colaleila Husffcl Pendlelon Telek Colc tlonanian Perlel Tigue Cordiico Horgo5 Pererion Trello Corncll Hutchinson, A . Perrarca Van Horne Co5lell I n t s Prtranc Vroon Couell l r k i n Phillips Wachob Cunc~inghani Jackson Piccola Wambach tlehledio Johnson Picvtky Wargo Uc\'ertfr Kennedy Pistella Wass DeUceic Klingaman Pitta Wenger Dalhcler Kalter Pot1 Weston Daiief Koralyihyn Pratt Wiggins Daulda Kukovich Pucciarelli Williams, H. Ucal Lashinper Punt Wilson Dicli Laughlin Rappaport Wogan Dininni Lehr Rahco Worniak I)ornbrow\ki Lricov~tl Rrber Wright, D. R . Oonatocri Letterman Richardson Wright, J . L. Dorr l e v i Kieger Wright, R. C. I lu f fy Lcnis Ritter Zwikl Durham Llvcngood Rocks Eianr t.loyd Kybak Ryan. targo l u c y k Salvatore Speaker bee

NAYS-0

N O T VOTING-8

Alden Cahcn Gray Levin Belofr Emerson Kanuck Williams, J. D.

EXCUSED-5

Barber brazier Miscekich Noye Flschrr

The question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to .

O n the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the bill o n third consideration as


A7311:

Amend Title. Dage I, line 3, by striking out "and" where it . - appears the last time

Amend Title, page I, line 4, by removing the period after "service" and inserting

and for increased use of coal by electric utilities. Amend Bill, page I , by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I . Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.230). known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read:

proves and the commission finds:

874 LEGlS1,ATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19,

hlr. LLOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I, too, urge adoption of the amendment. This amendment,

in my opinion, is very important because it will serve as an incentive to investment in the synthetic fuels industry.

You may be aurare, Mr. Speaker, that during the Carter administration there was an investigation done in Washington about the possibility of converting oil-fired power plants to coal, and there are cost problems as well as Tome technological problems in converting plants to burn coal directly, but there are some very interesting and encouraging developments which I think this amendment will help to promote. The first is. there is a Pittsburgh area comoanv which is involved in - . .

d- experimentation on w h a ~ it calls a coal-oil mixture, which is Amend Sec I , page I , line 7. by striking out " I " ar~rl inwrt-

in^ about 60 percent oil and about 40 percent of a pulverized coal. ~"

2 Amend Sec. I , page I , lilies 9 and 10, by ctriking out all of line

9 and "Pennsylvania Con5olidated Statutes," in line 10 Amend Sec. 2, page 2. line 2 5 , by striking out "2" and inrert-

ing 3

Amend Sec. 3, page IS, line 6 , by striking out "3" and inscrt- ing

4

On thequestion, Will the House agree to theamendments?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Cheyter, Mr. Vroon.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, this next amendment is another important amendment as far as I am concerned. This is an amendment for which I will give credit to Mr. I.loyd, and you will notice that Mr. Lloyd's name is on this as a cosponsor because we are both very rnuch in agreement with thc contents o f this amendment. There werc sotne changes made which I think just improved it a little bit, but I surely do buy thc concept, hook, line, and sinker, and I will tell you what i t is all about.

This amendment would require thc PUC to continually monitor the technological and cost factors relevant to ihe lea- sibility of converting each existing oil-fueled electric generating unit of a public utility to an operation lueled by coal or a synthetic fuel derived from coal. Whenever the monitoring required indicates that the conversion may be feasible, the conversion will be so ordered.

There are requirements, conditions on this which I think arc very advisable, and they are there to protect the interests 01' the ratepayer. One obvious requirement is that such conversion will not result in higher rates to the ratepayer. I think that is a very wholesome, proper requirement. Then we also insist that it should not violate any existing environmental laws. I think that, too, is good.

When everything is put together and it is found after thir monitoring that it would be very advisable to convert existing oil-fired units t o coal, I think we yant to know about it, and I

think it is good for our State to emphasize coal. I urge your acceptance.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

That would be a synthetic fuel under this bill, and if that can be producedat a reasonably colnpetitive cost, then that would be used under this amendment in power plants in Pennsyl- \'ania.

The 5ccond big potential in the area of synthetic fuel is, the Floitse hill recall that earlier this year we talked about a proposed plant which would convert high-sulfur coal to metha- nol. One o f the leading potential markets for methaxol is in so-called combustion turbines, the small power plants of about 27 megawatts or less which run at the time of peak demand.

What we are doing with this amendment is trying to send a signal to investors that if they can produce a competitive product and if for whatever reason there is reluctance on the part of the utility companies to take advantage of that new product, we have in place in Pennsylvania a procedure to bring that about. I think, Mr. Speaker, that this will be a big help to those people who are concerned about encouraging invcstrnent in the kind o f production which can reduce our reliance and hopefully, if i t works, serve as a prototype lo reduce the reliance o f our allies on foreign oil. So I would urge adoption of the amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- tlcman from Bcrks, hlr. Davies.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, the same question to either gentleman as before, that in the synthetic statement we are taking partially that we would have guarantees that if they come up with a wood-chip combination somewhere or other with coal or with a byproduct of coal, another synthetic of coal, that these, of course, would be acceptable, like a 40-60 mix that he talked about, other products as well. If those guarantees are in it, and then one other brief question as well.


Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, 1 will consent to interrogation by the gentleman, Mr. Davies, and to answer his first question, there would be nothing in this amendment which would prohibit utility companies from converting to any other kind nf ~ynthet ic fuel. There is also nothing in this amendment which would prohibit the Public Utility Commission from addressing that problem in the future.

Mr. DAVIES. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. You already answered the second question, and that was the fuel sale approach in those others. He has covered that. Thank you.

1982 LEGISLATIVE

On the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments'!


YEAS-I88

Anderson bieck XIcClarch) Seralmi Armstrong borlrr. W. W. llclntyre Srvcnly Arty Foster. J r . . A . McMonagle Silonrri Belardi Freind blacko\>,ki Shopnik Bellanli tryel l l adwan Sicmincki Brnon Gatlagher hlaiaic Sirianni Hiirle Gallen \landerin" Smith. B. Blaum (iamhlc h4anmillcr Smirh. E . H . Borski Gannon Llarmion So~trh , I.. E. Bouser tieirt Merry Snyder Bo ycs Geolge h l~ch lov~c Spencer Brand1 Gladeck hlicoiiic Spit, Broun Grahosrhi hliller S t a n Rurd Greenfield Moehlmann Strighnrr Burns Greeni\ond Morris Sl r icoi Caltagirone Cirieco hlowery Sle*art Cappabianca C r o i l ~ a hlckonic Sluban Cawley Ciruppo llullen Suaim C'csrar Hagarts Murphi Sw~.et Cimini Haluska hahill Swift Cwcra Harpsr O'OonncIl Taddooio Clark t h a ) O l a v Tablor, E . 2. Clymrr Haye5 Ol~vcr lablor . b. E . Cochran Hcircr l 'mdle~on lelck Colafella Hoeifel I'ericI Tigur Cole Hunaman Pcterrun 1-re110 Cordnco H ~ r g o s Petrarca \'an Hornc Cornell Iiutthinson. A . Perronc Vroon Corlerr Irms Philllpb Wachob Couell Itkin Piccola Wambach Cunningham Jackson Plevsk) Wargo IUeMuledio Johrlion l'istella U as, DcVertei Kcnncdy l'ltts Wenger DeWeecr Klingarnan ~ o t t \Verton Daikelei Kolrcr Pratt Wiggin, Davits Kouatyshyo Pucciaielii \Villiams, H . Ilawlda Kukobich I'unr \ViIliann, J , D.

\Vil\on Dcal Lashinger Rappapurl Dirtz 1.auphlin Rasco Wogan Dinlnni Lchr Rcbcr \ V O L C I ~ ~ Dombrosski 1.escovitr Richardson U'righl. D. R. Donatucci 1.cttrrmao Riegei Wright, J . L . Dorr 1.cvi Rirter \Vrigh~, R. C. Duffy lebin Rocib Znikl Durham l euis Rlhak Evans L.i\engoud Saluatore Kbnn. Fargo 1 loyd Saurcnan Speakei Fee Lucyk

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-7

Alden Cohen tira) McVerry Relol'l' Emerson Kanuck

EXCUSED-5

Harber Mibccvich Noye Fralier Flscher

The question was determined-in the affirmalive, and the amendments were agreed to.

WELCOME

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair takes pleasure at this time in presenting to the House 4-H members from the Fourth Legislative District, comprised o f Erie and Warren

JOURNAL-HOUSE 875

Counties, which is represented by Representative Harry Bowser. They are seated to the left of the rostrum: Mary Wingerter, Cris Curtis, Sherri Bensink, Becky Weigert, along with their adviser, the county agricultural extension director, Mr. Bill Urash.


The SPEAKER pro tempore. Does the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon, wish t o be recognized at this time?

Mr. VROON. Yes. Mr. Speaker, we passed over an amendment earlier in the

game, and now 1 would like t o introduce a substitute amendment for amendment 7338, the substitute amendment being 7375, which has been distributed, Mr. Speaker.

THE SPEAKER (MATTHEW J. RYAN) IN THE CHAIR


The SPEAKER. It is the understanding of the Chair that the agreement that was reached last week was that the amendments that would be first offered would be those that were in the majority leader's office by 10 o'clock on Friday morning. The Chair would prefer t o recognire the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, when the scheduled agenda has been completed on the new amendment.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, the only way I had t o make'a minor amendment t o that particular amendment was t o withdraw it and substitute a new one. The substance is almost identical, and we had no other way t o handle it.

'The SPEAKER. The gentleman will offer his amendment.


amended'? Mr. VROON offered the following amendments No.

A7375:

Amend Title, page 1 , line 2, by inserting after "for'' the construction of electric generating units and for

Amend Bill, page I , by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Secrion 1. Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.230). known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read: 5 514. Construction of public utility facilities.

Except for those investments for environmental protection facilities related to existing facilities or investments which neither produce revenue nor reduce expenses, the cost of construction or expansion of a public utility facility shall not be made a part of the rate base until the facility becomes used and useful in the public service, which shall be deemed to mean a facility fully completed, approved and actually providing utility services to customers. The burden of proof shall be upon the utility to show such nonrevenue producing, nonexpense reducing investments to be necessary to improve environmental conditions, improve quality or reliabilit$ of service or improve safety.

Amend Sec. I , page I, line 7, by striking out "1" and inserting

2 Amend Sec. I, page I, llnes 8 through 10, by striking out the

comma after "66" in line 8, all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes." in line 10

876 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19, - ~

Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and insert- 1 rise in strong support of the Vroon dmendment. I had ing I some problems with some of the earlier versions of the

3 amendment to prohibit CWlP that Mr. Vroon had circulated Amend Set. 3, page 15, line 6. by striking out "3" and insert-

the last week, I thought that his amendments as they Ing

4 1 were being changed and circilated in the last few days did not

O n the question, Will the House agree to the amendments'?

fully d o the job, and he has alluded to these earlier amendments now in his remarks. But finally, as of today, 4/19/82, he finally aot a good amendment, and I think we ought to


Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, we have been considering for a long time an adequate CWlP amendment. The whole tion o f CWIP, or construction work in Progress, came about as a result of the Philadelphia Electric Company requesting that some o f those charges be included in a rate incrcdse which is currently being considered by the PUC and which is about t o be finalized somewhere around the 14th of May.

The big reason for this is that there is a tremendous amount o f construction work involved in the consrruction of a nuclear plant, and people have genuinely been concerned about the proposal. Although we are given to believe, and quite empha- tically so, that this will not be allowed, this would break a Pre- cedent in the history o f the PUC in this State, and 1 do not think that anybody on the floor o f the House really wants t o see the inclusion o f those rates at this particular time. So I have long been an advocate o f the elimination o r this by law so that just in case the PUC should be tempted to grant this, we will make i t very clear t o them that it is our legislative intent that they not permit this inclusion.

Now then, the reason why 1 changed my amendments around-l originally had it applicable to electrical generating units-is that they are the ones that are really involved. It is Limerick that we are talking about. It is an electrical generating unit that is the subject of all of this. The big money is in that field, and it is obvious that if we are going to have an impact, we address it t o that particular field, and 1 thought that was fully adequate. Since that time I find out that a number of my constituents and a number o f other people's constituents are uncomfortable with that approach, because they think it is far broader than just electrical energy. I think it is only incumbent upon me to recognize that and to give effect to this in a new amendment. Hence the reason for this substitution of an amendment. This is out of recognition not of the fact that there are other people introducing a broader type of amendment but in recognition o f the fact that my people out there are disturbed by anything that would limit this in the least, and they would like to see this applied on a broad scale. I am responding to my constituent^, constituents of the southeast, and I am sure that nobody sho~lld really quarrel about that change of venue.

So 1 would genuinely ask your support of this amendment which would outlaw. the use of CWIP in the inclusion of a rate base of any utility at any time whatsoever. 1 urge your aCceP- lance.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentkman from Montgomery, Mr. H ~ e f f e l .

Mr. HOEFFEL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

. - it.

Now, the reason Mr. Vroon is right is that the utility com-

panies, particularly PECO, would like to use the ratepayers as a source of forced investment for their construction projects, and 1 think that that is the sort of change in p ~ c that we should not permit. The ratepayers do not have any say over the management of a public utility. They do not the management decisions concerning where t o build and how big to build and what kind to build. The

ratepayers do not have those decisions at all, and if they were forced to contribute toward construction costs through CWIP, they would not even get any return on the investment that they would be forced to make.

NO,.,, the shareholders have some say over management, and the shareholders get some return on their investment. ~ h ~ t is the way it should work, that the shareholders be asked to supply revenue to finance new construction projects. That i s the way i t has been; that is the way it ought to remain.

~ r . vloon on his fourth try as of this morning has comeup ,ith an amendment that I think does the job. 1 would like to congratulate him. He has a unique ability, not just in this

amendment but all through today's debate, to seize the moment and to summarize amendments that have been circulated months ahead of time. 11 is a remarkable talent that has kept him right at the forefront o f the debate today, and I would like to congratulate him. 1 hope we approve his amendment,

~ h , SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from ~ ~ ~ k s , Mr. Wilson.

MI. WILSON. Will the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, answer a coupleofquestions, please?

~ h , SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will. The gentleman may proceed.

MI. WILSON. M ~ . Speaker, in your amendment you state the end of it, "...which shall be deemed to mean a

facility fully approved and actually providing utility the word Mapproved," do mean approved by the public utility commission?

MI, VROON. ~ h ~ t i s correct. M ~ . WILSON. ~~d where you say "actually providing

utility services," would you mean chat to be the same as the terminology used in title 66 as "used and useful"?

Mr. VROON. It is even more specific than those words. M,, WILSON. would you consider it to be the same as

and useful." 1 ask that simply because in every rate case, when they put a facility on line, it has t o be according to their current rules "used and useful." That is the terminology that they have accepted in court, and all 1 want to know is if your words of "providing utility services" are the same and could be meant to be the same as "used and useful."

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, in the preceding language we say, "...until the facility becomes used and useful in the public service, which shall be deemed to mean, ..." as follows. I think that grammar is very much to the point, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. WILSON. It is "used and useful." 1 just wanted it on the record.

Mr. VROON. It is "used and useful," and we go even further and say this is what we mean by "used and useful."

Mr. WILSON. Fantastic. I compliment the gentleman on his excellent judgment. I urge an affirmative vote.


Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, I may be the only one here, but I am voting to oppose this amendment. 1 think one of the things this House is doing today is acting a little bit pre- cipitously in a lot of areas as we look at these amendments, which have not been studied and have not been gone into in detail.

There are a lot of ramifications here. I currently have inthe committee HB 2383, which deals directly with this subject, which was introduced just recently, and which I have planned to schedule public hearings for, because there are a number of issues concerning CWIP that have arisen, and I d o not believe that all sides have been heard.

There is a real possibility that by eliminating CWIP, we could in effect be raising rates to ratepayers, or maybe not, but we have not heard the other side of the issue. We have been listening just to one side, and I think it is time this whole thing should have a truthful and open hearing. I would guarantee to this House that after that hearing, if the preponder- ance of evidence is such as we believe it to be today, that bill would see its way to the calendar.

Also, you know, you talk about construction work in progress not being allowed in the rate base. It is a little different with private industry. In private industry you can darn well bet that the customers today pay for their construction work in progress. They have no such restriction. What we did when we passed the Vroon amendment that provided for a certificate of need, we took away the need to have a CWIP amendment. Now, if the construction is really needed, then it must he paid for on a regular basis. If it is not needed, then that is the issue, whether it is needed. So L would say, let us consider these issues a little more in depth and a little more thoroughly, and I would give you my personal guarantee on that bill coming to a hearing and being reported to the floor if, as we believe today, the issues are one-sided.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Hoeffel.

Mr. HOEFFEL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I disagree quite strongly, Mr. Speaker, with the comments

of the previous speaker, Mr. Taddonio. He said that we have only heard one side of the CWIP argument. Well, that really is not true. The Public Utility Commission has heard a very forceful presentation by Philadelphia Electric Company for permission to grant CWIP. They had numerous experts testify before the commission. There has been a great deal of money spent by the utilitv to bring in experts and to marshal their

arguments to make them before the PUC. There have also been before the PUC strong arguments against CWIP. For example, a brief was submitted to the PUC by 10 or 12 large companies in the Philadelphia area that are opposed to CWIP. The large businessman does not want to pay CWIP any more than the small homeowner wants to pay CWIP. S o l think Mr. Taddonio is incorrect. There has been a very broad discussion, and the time, frankly, is very short. This General Assembly ha5 to act on this question quickly so that the PUC will khow exactly where we stand. Now, the administrative law judge for the Public Utility Commission who has heard the PECO case suggested a week ago that PECO not be granted CWIP, that PECO not be permitted to charge construction work in progress, but the Public Utility Commission could still do it unless we take action to stop it.

Now, the second thing that Mr. Taddonio said was that since we have certificate of need as proposed by Mr. Vroon in his earlier amendment, there is no need to ban CWIP. Well, I disagree with that very strongly. The fact that some of us want to create a process where the PUC gives prior approval to utilities before they build does not mean that we want the customer, the ratepayer, to pay for that construction once it is under way. I think that it is totally consistent and in fact the proper way to go to have a certificate-of-need process and a ban on CWIP. I think that is the best way to protect our ratepayers, and I suggest that we approve the Vroon amendment. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Morris.

Mr. MORRIS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1, too, support this amendment wholeheartedly and as

strongly as 1 can. 1 think I am correct in hearing what Mr. Taddonio said, with the reference to private industry. 1 would just like to point out that we are not dealing here with private industry; we are dealing with public utilities. And furthermore, that difference here is very much the point. If private industry wishes to raise its prices for its existing commodities in order to help pay for some future expansion, they pay their money and they take their chances. If people d o not want to buy their commodity, they do not have to buy it. It is pretty hard to get along without buying electricity from the utility company. That is one reason you have utility companies. The situation is entirely different. We as the public consumers of electricity simply do not want to become shareholders to this extent in the engagements and construction of the utility companies.

WELCOME

The SPEAKER. The Chair at this time will interrupt the proceedings to welcome to the hall of the House a group of guest pages from the Pennsylvania School for the Deaf in Philadelphia, here today as the guests of Representative Rocks of Philadelphia. They are seated immediately in front of the Speaker and they are being talked to by their interpreter at this time. The guests are four in number. Members, give them a round of applause and welcome.



O n the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the amendments?

T h e following roll call way recorded:

YEAS-I90

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Berson Bittle Blaum Borski Bowser Boyrs Hrandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawlev

Fleck I'ostei, W. W . Foster, Jr.. A. Frcind I'ryer Gallagher Ciallen Gamble Gannan Geisr

L.ucyk McClatcil! Mclntyrc McMonaglr McVerry Mackowrki Madigan Maiale Mandfr~no Manmiller

Cscorge Marmion Gladeck Merry Grabowski Michlovic Gray Micatrie Grcrnfield hlillrr Greenwood Moelllmnnn Grieco Morris Gruitza Mowcri

Saurman Seralini Selenty Showers Shupnik Siemin~ki Siriann! Smith, B. Smith, E. H. S m i r h I I; ~~~~ . ~ ~ . ~ . Snyder Spencer Spit? Stairs Sle~gl~oer Stckens Stewart Stuhnn

Mr. .JOHNSON offered the following amendments No. A7282:

Amcnd Title, page I , line 2, by insertingafler "for" the metering of electricity supplied to churches and other places of worship, for

Amend Bill, page 1, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1. Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended bv addine a section to read:

2 Amend Sec. 1, page I , lines 8 through 10, by striking out the

comma after "66" in line 8, all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes," in line 10

A m m d Sec. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and inserting

~esia ; Z Gruppo Mrkoncc Suainl

Cimini Hagarty Mullcn Swcor Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6 , by striking out "3" and insert- I :-.. Civera Haluska Murphy Suifr Clark Harper Nahill Taddonia 4 Clymer Hasay O'Donnell Taylor. E. L . O n the question, Cochran Hayes Olarl Taylor. F . L . Calaiella Hciser' Oliver Trlpk Will the House agree t o the amendments? Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslerr Coweil Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donatucci Darr Duiiy Durham Evans Fargo Fee

Hoeffcl Pmdlcrun Honaman Perrel Hurgos Peterson Hutchinson, A. Prtrarca Irvi5 Prtrone ltkin Phillips Jackson Picsola Johnson Pieviky Kennedy Pistclla Klingaman Pit15 Kolter Poll Kowalyshyn Pratl Kukovich Pucciarelli Larhinger Punt Laughlin Rappaport Lehr Rasco Lcscovirr Kcber Letterman Richardson Lev, Rieger Levin Kilter Lemin Kocki Libengood Rybak Lloyd Saikarore

NAYS-0

N O T VOTIN(;-

Tigue Trrllo Van Hornz Vroon Wachob M'ambach Wargo Was\ Wenger Weston. Wiggins Williams, H. Williamr. J . D Wllson Woean Woiniak Wright. D. R. Wright. J . L . Wright, K . C. Lwiil

Kvan. Sneaker

Alden Cohcn Emerson Kanuch Beloff

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazier Miscevich Noye Fischer

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, and amendments were agreed to .

the

O n the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the bill on third consideration as

amended?

T h e SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Blair, Mr. Johnson.

Mr. J O H N S O N . Thank you, Mr. Speaker. M r . Speaker, about 3,000 years a g o Solomon dedicated a

temple in Jerusalem, and at that t ime the shekinah glory of G o d filled that temple. Now, M r . Speaker, today, in this year 1982, G o d in his omniscience has not seen fit t o fill our churches with the shekinah glory. W e have t o depend on the utility companies to give us electricity. U p until very recently we had a rate for churches based on a kilowatt-hour. In my district in the last few months, that has been changed to a demand kilowatt-hour rate. This is a tremendous increase in the rate.

Thc demand kilowatt rate for places of worship is not fair. In the rural churches, the churches in my district, they use electricity like f rom 10 o'clock Sunday morning until 12 o'clock noon. I submit t o you that this is no t a demand period; this is not a peak period. Sunday evening, a couple o f hours f rom 7 o'clock t o 9 o'clock; this is no t a high-peak hour for utilities. Wednesday evenings f rom 8 o'clock t o 9 o'clock; that is no t a high-peak hour . And yet the churches in our district a n d many of your districts are being charged this kilowatt demand rate, which is not fair. M y amendment would say that they should be charged again, a s they were in the past, a t a residential rate, not a demand kilowatt rate.

In rhe new Jerusalem, G o d is going t o be the light of the new Jerusalem, but between the shekinah glory of Solomon's temple and the new Jerusalem, we have t o depend o n the local utility companies, a n d I would plead with you folks t o support this amendment t o help our churches out. Thank ydu, Mr. Speaker.

Cornell Coslerr Cowell Cunningham Deh4edlo DcVerter DrWeeic Ilaikrlrr Lla\ ieq Dauida I>zal IDlztz Ilininni Ilomhrawiki Danarucci Darr Dul'iy Durham Evans Farpo


Hariaman Hurgo, Hurchlnson, A. lnis ltktn Johnson Kennedy Klingsman kolte~ Kowalyihyn Kukukich lashingrr Laughlin Lrhr Lebcovill Letterman Le\i Lrrin lewis Livengoad


T h e following roll call was recorded:

YEAS-186

Anderson Fleck Lucyk Serafini Armstrong F o r V W McClatchy Sc\cnty Arry 1:oster. I r . . A . Mclnl!re Showers Belardi Freind McVerry Shupnik Belianti Fryer Zlaclow~ki Sieminski Bcrson Gallagher Madigan Sirianni Bittic Gallcn hlaiale Smith. B. Blaum Gamhlc Ilanderino Smith. E . H.

tiannon hlanmillrr Smith. L . E. Borser Bo ycs Geist Malmion Snydcr Brandt George Merry Spencer Brown Gladeck Michlovic S p ~ t i Burd Grabowski hlicoilic Stairs Burns Gra! hlillcr Sleighner Cairagironr Greenfield hloelilmann Slereni Cappahianca Greenwood Morris Stewart Caul?) tirirco hloaery Stuhan Ccssar (irubtrs Mrkonic Suaim Cimini Gruppo !vlli~llm Swect Cireia Hagart! hllurphy Swiit Clark Halurka Nahill '1 addonio Clymer Harper O'Uonnrll Taylor, E. 7. Cochran tiasay Olasr Tiiyloi. I:, t. Colaiella Haye? I'endlelon Telck Calc Heiser Periel Tigue Cordisco Hocffet Percrron Trcllo

Pctrarca Pctrone Phillips Plccola Pierhk) Pirriiln Pitti Poll Prau Puuciarelli runt Kappapoll Raico Rcher Richardson Kieger Rirter Racks Rybak Salvatore

Mr. W O C A N . Yes, Mr. Speaker. T h a n k you. Mr. Speaker, on thc roll-call vote o n amendment 7337, 1

was erroneously recorded in the negative. H a d my switch functioned properly, 1 would have voted in the affirmative.

T h e SPEAKER. T h e remarks of the gentleman will b e spread upon the record.



amended'! Mr. WILSON offered the following amendments No.

A7383:

Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "for" certificates o f public convenience, for

Amend Bill, page I, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Scction I. Section 1102(a) of Title 66, act o f November 25,

1970 (P.L.707, No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consoli- dated Statutes, is amended by adding a paragraph t o read: 5 1102. Enumeration o f acts requiring certificate.

(a) General rule.-Upon the application of any public utility and the approval o f such application by the commission, evidenced by its certificate o f public convenience first had and obtained, and upon compliance with existing laws, it shall be lawful:

a a * \ao Hoinc vr0011 \Vachob Wambach Wargo \\'ass Wengrr Weqton \Viggins Uiliiams. H. U'illiamr, 1. D U'ilbori \Vngan Wornink Wright . D. K . \Vrighr, J . I \+'right, R . C. Xnikl

Ryan.

T h e question was determined-in the affirmative, a n d the amendments were agreed to .

Fee Lloyd Saurrnan Speaker NAYS-0

N O T VOTING-9

Aldcn Cohen Jackson hlchlonagle Belofi Emerron Kanuck Oliver Borrki

REMARKS ON VOTE

Section 2. Title 66 is amended by adding a section t o read: 9 1102.1. Nonelectric utility capital construction

certificates. Except for common carriers, the commission shall by regula-

tion establish classifications of public utilities and types of capital projects which shall require certificates o f public convenience.

Amend Sec. I , page I, line 7, by striking out "I" and insert-

Amend Sec. I, page 1, lines 9 and 10, by striking out all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes," in line 10


7

Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6 , by striking out "3" and inserting

5 T h e SPEAKER. Does the gentleman f rom Philadelphia.

Mr. Wogan, desire recognition? thequestion,

Will the House agree t o the amendments?



Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, you recall we suspended the rules of the House during the first Vroon amendment, and the reason that I made that motion is that I agreed with the direction that Mr. Vroon was going, except that he did not go quite far enough.

This is an amendment that, in addition to the Vroon amendment, would strengthen the PUC law when an electric utility is going to undertake a major-

The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman yield. Will the gentleman, Mr. Wilson, advise the Chair as to

whether or not this amendment is part of the packet that has been distributed?

Mr. WILSON. It is the same as I think it is 7558, with an additional line in it, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman advise the Chair if he intends t o offer amendment 3587?

Mr. WILSON. This is the only amendment that I intend to offer, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER. The Chair thanks the gentleman. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. WILSON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendment, Mr. Speaker, would insist that before,

prior to, letting an electric utility undertake a major capital expansion, the Public Utility Commission must consider the capacity of the plant, the location feasibility - is it going to be in the Susquehanna River, downtown Philadelphia, uptown Wilkes-Barre - the cost impact - how much is this facility going to cost the ratepayer, when and if it is finished? Those three factors will have to be incorporated before permission is granted to the utility to build this facility. In addition, 1 changed the dollar consideration to the facility is an expendi- ture in excess of 10 percent of the gross annual revenue, so there is some kind of relativity to the electric utility company.

1 also require that the Public Utility Commission shall establish regulations and classify all the rest of the utilities. We are excluding them all, and we are saying here that they shall require certificates, but the Public Utility Commission shall determine what those standards shall be.

In effect, what I have done here, I hope, would be to improve on the Vroon amendment, to put in some standards that must be considered. Before PE goes and builds a Lime- rick plant, before PP&L (Pennsylvania Power and Light) builds a Susquehanna plant, they would have to come in and demonstrate, how big is this plam going to be? How much of that capacity is going to be necessary and used and useful at the time it is completed? Is the location practical, is it feasible, is it reasonable in terms of people location and other things? And how much is it going t o cost? Is that cost going to be workable to the ratepayer when it is finished? I would urge an adoption of this improvement to the Vroon amendment.

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Westmoreland, Mr. Taddonio, desire recognition on the Wilson amendment?

Mr. TADDONIO. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I am just reading-the amendment now. It seems to be

similar to amendment A3589. 1 think 1 would oppose this

amendment because 1 think it is less restr~ctive, in the way I read i t , than Representative Vroon's amendment. It says that only facilities resulting in spending in excess of 10 percent of the gross annual revenues would require the permit, whereas there is no such restriction in the Vroon amendment. In the Vroon amendment, I believe, all utility construction would require some sort of permission from the PUC, and if they wanted to make some kind of exception, then they would have to do that through the regulations and could do it at a much lesser level than 10 percent. I think this amendment, the way I read it anyway, is much looser than the Vroon amendment.

PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, I have a parliamentary inquiry to the Chair.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his point of parliamentary inquiry.

Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, under the suspension of the rules, i f we adopt the Wilson amendment, does that have the effect of removing from the bill the Vroon amendment which we previously adopted on this same subject, or does it have the effect of putting both into the bill?

The SPEAKER. It is the understanding of the Chair that the Legislative Reference Bureau, in attempting to consolidate the two amendments, assuming this amendment is agreed to, will add to the Vroon amendment that portion that supple- ments but does not contradict the Vroon amendment.

In effect, both amendments would go in, but to the extent that they are duplicative, they would he merged.

Mr. LLOYD. Well, then, Mr. Speaker, could I be recognized to speak on the amendment?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may proceed.

Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just by way of legislative intent, it is my view that the Legis-

lative Reference Bureau would not have to extract any language from either amendment to make them compatible.

Mr. Vroon's previous amendment provides for what he called a construction permit and does not specify the standards which are to be followed in issuing or denying that construction permit. His previous amendment also deals with all utility expansions, not just electric and not just electrics for certain sizes. So I would suggest to the Legislative Reference Bureau that if we adopt the Wilson amendment, the Wilson amendment simply imposes an additional requirement. It does not contradict the requirement for a construction permit but simply imposes an additional requirement of a certificate of public necessity in the case of certain particular kinds of expansions, and does provide more specific guidance to be followed by the Public Utility Commission with regard to those particular kinds of expansions. With that understanding, Mr. Speaker, I would urge adoption of the Wilson amendment.


. . The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from I George Marmion Snyder

Brandr Gladeck Merry Sppnrer Westmoreland, Mr. Taddonio. Rroan Grabowski Michlaric Soitz

I think that the Wilson amendment is particularly important because of the language, the last sentence in Mr. Wilson's clause ( 6 ) , which deals with the costs associated with cost overruns in power plant construction. Those of us who arc familiar with Limerick or familiar with Berwick or familiar with Three Mile Island know that one of the major problems with nuclear power is cost overruns. The Wilson amendment seeks to address that problem by looking at the cost as projected by the utility company when it gets its certificate o f public necessity and then comparing that to the final construction cost and requiring that the company maintain a high level of proof t o demonstrate Lo the Public Utility Commission that that cost overrun was beyond the company's control and that the additional expenditures were prudent and ought to be r e c ognized in the rate base.

In my opinion, Mr. Speaker, this amendment could go a long way toward helping to get more accurate estimates 01' construction plant costs before consiruction begins and then putting a burden on the companies and giving a benefit to the consumers to try ro prevent the automatic passthrough- which is what more o r iess happens now-of imprudent cost overruns. So therefore, Mr. Speaker, 1 strongly urgeadoption of the amendment.


Mr. WILSON. Mr. Speaker, in this amendment we not only, I think, are improving the Vroon amendment by insist- ing that the PUC determine the capacity o f the plant, the impact of the location and its feasibility, and the cost, but I think we are also settling a question once and for all on the facility as it is charged to the ratepayer, and that is that in this amendment we are saying here that once the electric utility has come in and talked to the Public Utility Commission and they have held a hearing and determined that the facility is reasonable, its location is good, the cost of it is a factor that could be sustained by the rate base, they can go ahead and build it

within the time period that they determine. What we are also saying in here is that once that facility is

used and useful, once it is on line, once i t is producing its electricity and the ratepayers are using the light bulbs and so forth, then the PUC must grant that facility to be included in the rate base without further hearing, with one exception. That exception is that the overruns or any overcosts that were not preapproved by the Utility Commission shall go through the regular rate hearing basis with the PUC. I think that is only reasonable, and I think we would be improving this act if we adooted this amendment. 1 thank vou for vour suooort.

further and requires PUC intervention at the preliminary planning stage and at the actual construction stage. That is putting the PUC into the utility planning and building business. 1 think if we are going to do that, we are going to be seeing a much larger budget by the PUC, and 1 do not think the payback is going to be worth it. I disagree with theamendment.

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman, Mr. Lloyd, desirerec- ognition?

Mr.'LLOYD. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order. Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Just to respond to the point the gentleman, Mr. Taddonio,

made, I could not agree more wholeheartedly that existing law gives the Public Utility Commission the power and the duty and the authority to exclude imprudent costs, but I speak from personal experience when I say the Public Utility Com- mission is not doing that.

I tried two cases against GPU (General Public Utilities) when Three Mile Island No. 2 was under construction. That plant was originally estimated to cost $190 million, and the final construction figure was in excess o f $700 million. The construction of that plant and of unit No. 1 had been slowed down during the construction process for financial reasons and because of a slide in load growth. I tried t o cross-examine on those particular points, and the judge basically said, this is the kind of thing we cannot really deal with in these kinds of proceedings.

So if, as Mr. Taddonio suggests he wants to do, we are really going to put some teeth into trying to control cost overruns, then we have to make it crystal clear to the Public Utility Commission that that is indeed the very kind of issue which must be addressed. 1 urgeadoption of theamendment.



YEAS-191

Anderson Fec Lloyd Salvatore Arms,rong Flcck t.ucyk Satlrrnan Art) roster, W . W . McClatchy Serafini

Forlei, l r . , A. Mclntyre Seventy Belfantl Freind McMonagle Showers

Fryer McVerry Shupnik Berson Gallagher Mackowsli Sieminski

~ a t ~ m , Gallen Madigan Sirianni tiambie Maiale Smith, B.

Borski Ciannon Marlderino Smith, E. H. Boaacr Geiit Manmiller Smith, L . E.

Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, the point mentioned by the previous two speakers concerning the cost overruns, I might say that is existing law. The PUC now has the authority to dis-

~~~~ ,~~ Colafella Hexer Oliver ~ e i e k Cole Hoeffel Pendieton Tigue

~ u i d Gray Micozrie Stairs Greenfield Miller Steighner

Caltagirone Greenwood Moehlmann Stevens Cappabianca Grieco Morris Stewart

allow excessive, unnecessary constructioo expenditures in section 1102 of title 66. We are not changing anything there.

I just want to repeat that the Wilson amendment, I think, is a little bit less stringent than the Vroon amendment because o f the 10-percent inclusion. In addition to that, it goes a little

Cawley Gruitza Mowery Stuban CeSSar Gruppo Mrkonic S w i m Cimini Hagarty Mullen Sweet C,uera Haluska Murphy Swift Clark Harper Nahill Taddonio ~ ~ c ~ ~ ~ n Hasay O'Donnell Taylor, E. 2.

Haves Olarr Tavlor. F. E.


Cordisco Honaman Perlel Trello Cornell Horgoi Peterson Van Hornc Coslett Hutchinson. A . Petrarca Vroon Cawell Ir'iis Pelronc Wachob Cunningham ltkin Phillips U'arnhach DeMedio Jackson Piccola Warau DeVerter DeWeese Da~keler Davies Dawida Deai Dietz Diriinni Dombrowrki Donatucci Dorr Dully Durhani Emerson Evans Farga

Alden

Johnson Pievsky Kennrdv Pistclla

Kawalyihyn Pralt Kukovich Pucciareili Laihingir Punt I,aughl~n Kappaporf Lrhr Rasca Lesco\itr Reber Letterman Richardson Levi Kieger Levin Ritlci Lewi? Ruck5 Lirengood Kybal

NAYS-0

N O T VOTING-4

Cahen Kanuck EXCUSED-5

was; Wenger U'o1on Wiggins Williams. 1. D Wilson Wogan Wo~niak Wright. D. R . Wright, J . L . Hrtghr. R . C.

Williams. H.

Barber Frarier hl~rcevich N o y ~ Fircher

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to.

O n the question recurring, Will t h e House agree t o the bill on third consideration as

amended? M r . M A N D E R I N O offered the following amendments No.

A7295:

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by striking out ", and" and inserting a semicolon

Amend Title, page I, line 4, by removing the period after "service" and inserting , further providing for citizen representation on the boards of directors o f certain public utilities; fining the qualifications o f such individuals; and establishing procedure, for the *election of citizen representatives.

Amend Bill, page 15, by inserting between lines 5 and 6 Section 3. Title 66 is amended by adding a chapter to read:

CHAPTER 20 CITIZEN REPRESENTATlON ON BOARDS O F

Dl RECTORS Sec. 2001. Definitions. 2002. Citizen representation on boards of directors. 2003. Qualifications o f citizen representatives. 2004. Duties of citizen representatives. 2005. Advisory board. 2006. Powers and duties o f advisory board. 2007. Public utility acceptance o f citizen representatives. 5 2001. Definitions.

The following words and phrases when used in this chapter shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:

"Citizen representative." An individual who meets the qualifications of section 2003 (relating to qualifications o f citizen representatives), is appointed by an advisory board pursuant to section 2006 (relating to powers and duties of advisory board), is accepted by the public utility to serve on the board of directors pursuant t o section 2007 (relating to public utility acceptance of

citizen representatives) and performs the duties set forth in section 2004 (relating to duties of citizen representatives).

"Public utility." Any privately owned public utility as defined in paragraph (I)(i), (ii) and (vi) of- the definition of "public utility" as set forth in secrion 102 (relating to defini- .. ~ I I O ~ S J .

S 2002. Citizen representation on boards o f directors. As a conditiori of receiving, maintaining or renewing a certifi-

cate o f public convenience pursuant to section 1103 (relating to procedure to obtain certificates of public convenience), each public utility as defined in this chapter shall accept at least one citizen representative on its board of directors for every three noncitizen representatives on its board, such citizen representatives to be chosen by the independent advisory board for its service area. 5 2003. Qualifications of citizen representatives.

Each citi7en representative shall live in the service area of the public utility- on which the citizen representative serves on the board of directors and shall be a consumer of the services of the public utility. A citizen representative shall not be:

( I ) A director, stockholder o r employee o f any public utility.

(2) An officer o r employee o f the commission. (3) An officer or employee of the Office of Consumer

Advocate. S 2004. Duties o f citizen representatives.

Each citizen representative shall be entitled to take part in all deliberations and to vote on all decisions in the same manner as the membcrs of the board of directors chosen by the stockholders of the public utility. For performing the duties o f a member of the board o f directors, a citizen representative shall receive such compensation and expenses as arc paid to other members of the board. 5 2005. Advisory board.

(a) Membership.-There is hereby established an advisory board to choose individuals to serve as citizen representatives on the board o f directors of certain public utilities. The advisory board shall consist o f seven members to be selected in the following manner:

(1) Three mernberiappointed by the Governor without Senate confirmation

(2) Two members, one to be appointed by the President pro tempore o f the Senate and one appointed by the Minority Leader of the Senate.

(3) Two members, one to be appointed by the Speaker of the House of Representatives and one appointed by the Minority Leader of the House o f Representatives. (b) Tcrn1s.-Except for the first members of the advisory

board, all other members of the advisory board shall serve for a term o f five years. The initial appointees of the advisory board shall serve for the following terms:

( I ) The two members appointed by the Senate leadership shall serve for a term of two years.

(2) The two members appointed by the leadership of the House of Representatives shall serve for a term of four years.

(3) The Governor in his appointments shall designate two members to serve for a term of three years and one member to serve for a term of five years. (c) Restrictions on advisory board members.-No individ-

ual, while a member o r employee of the advisory board, shall: (1) Serve on the board of directors, own stock in o r be

an employeeof any publicutility. (2 ) Be a n officer o r an employee of the commission. (3) Be an officer o r an employee of the Office of Con-

sumer Advocate. (d) Vacancies.-A majority of the advisory board by resolu-

tion shall declare vacant the position on the board of any member who takes part in any activities prohibited in subsection (e). An individual appointed to fill a vacancy occurring other than by the


expiration of a term of office shall he appointed for the unexpired term o f the nicmber he succeeds. Any vacancy occurring on ttic advisory board shall be Silled within 30 days in the manner in which that position mas originally filled.

(e) Officers.-Thc advisory board shall clcct 21 chairperson and a vice chairperson. In the absence of the cliairpcr\on or in the event o f a vacancy. the vice chairoerson shall act as chairoerson.

(f) Oilorurn.-Four members of t h ~ . adbisory board shall constitute a quorum and the votes o f a maioriry of the mrniber, present is required for any action or recommendation of thc advisory board. The chairman or any four members o f t h c advis-

Amend Sec. 3, page IS, line 6, by striking out "3. This" and inscrtinp

3. Section 3 of rhis act shall take effect immediately and the remainder of this

On thequest ion, Will the House agree t o the amendments?

The SPEAKER. T h e Chair recognizes the minority whip. hl r . M A N D E R I N O . 'Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment would create a system for

ory board may call a meeting provided that advance written I selecting and placing at least two consumers o n the boards of norice is mailed to each member and to an) cuch Persoll who I Drivaleli owlled utiiilies. T h e mechanism t o accomDlish this requests noticc for ~ u c l i meetings.

(8) Con~pensation.-hlemhers of the advisory board shall be compensated at a rate o f $50 per day and sl~all rrceive reimbursement for their actual and necessarv exoensrs while ~ e r f o r m -

would be an advisory panel with members appointed by the Goverrlor and the majority a n d minority leaders of the House a n d Senate. T h e advisory panel would select applicants f rom . .

ing the busincss of the advisory board. I the service area of the State's various utilities, (h) Renomination.-Mcnibcrs o f t h e advisory hoard arc e l i I 1, we have had amDle justification for Dlacina

~ ~

glble tor renomination to the board. (i) Costs.-The cornpenration of the advisory board and all

of thc expenses for the operatior1 shall he the responsibility of the commission and shall bt. recoverable by rhc cornmis\ion oursuant

. . . consumers on utility boards of directors. T h e decisions made by these monopolies have profound impact o n the lives of residential and commercial users of the utility services. The

to sectiort 510 (relating to aicssmri;t for reglllatorj ixpcn~e5 1 Public Utility Commission by itself has proven inadequate fo

utility. I prouisions in the law a n d in the regulations governing public

upon public utilities). $ 2006. Powers and duties of advisor) board.

The advisory hoard shall lhavr the power and duty to: ( I ) Accept app l i ca t ions and resul,icr f rom a n y indi,id.

ual interested in becoming a citi~eri reprcscnrativc o n a public

the task of shielding the consumers f rom the adverse decisions that the monopoly utilities make.

Consumers already provide millions of dollars of working capital, just like stockholders, through various pro-utility

, ~ , ~ -~~~~~~~ ~, ~ . ~ ~ ~ - ~ -~ ~ ~~

~~~ ~~~~ ~ ~ ~~

that applications are first accepted, two indivcduals to serve as I p n x d . at least, that consumers foo t the bill t o pay for the

(2) Evaluate the qualifications of indi\,iduals who apply and \,erify that the) meet [he quaiitications stated in section 2003 (relating to qualifications o f citircn representatives). , , a neriod of davc from da te

citizen representarives on the public utility board o f directors I completion of the financially troubled Limerick power plant.

u t i l i t i e s , c~~~~~~~~ are being asked to foot the bill as a result of the Bell Telephone divestiture: consumers have been asked to foot the bill in the T M I 2 cleanup; a n d it has been pro-

(6) Contract tor the services of expertc and consultants proceed. as necessary to carr) oilt its duties nursuant to this chaotcr. I Mr. KEBER. Mr. Speaker, I would like t o place before the

for which he has applied. (4) Declare vacant the beat of anyonr chosen to serve as

a citizen representative who takes part in ariy o f t h c activities listed i n 2004 to d u f i c s citi,en represcnra. rives) o r who accepts corlipensation for activitie\ eilumcr2ltcd in section 2004 and nominate, within 30 days of a vacancy for any reason, one individual to serve as a citilen rcpresentati\,c.

( 5 ) Hire an executive director, a general counsel and such other staff as are necessary to carry out its duties pursil- ant to this chapter. The executive director shall bc responsible for the administrative operations of the advisory board and shall pcrform such other dutics as !nay be dclcgated or assigned to him by the advisory board, except that the ad\ , is ory board shall not delegate the niaking o f regulations to thr executive director. The grnrral counsel shall be thr chief legal officer of the advisory board.

Increasingly, public opinion has come t o favor the idea of placing consumers as full voting members o n utility boards. RccenI editorials in the Harrisburg Patriot, the Pocono Record, a n d the Pottstown Mercury have all strongly favored

the idea embodied in this amendment . hqr, speaker, 1 ask for an adoption of this amendment,

CONSTITUTIONAL POINT OF ORDER

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman f rom Montgomery, Mr. Kebcr, desire recognition?

M ~ , REBER, yes , I do, M ~ , speaker. T h e SPEAKER. T h e gentleman is in order a n d may

P 2007. public utilitr acceptance o.f citircn rrprerent~tives. (a) New public utilities.-tach public utility, i f i t is granted

a certificate o f public conbmience, shall accept the citiretl reprc- sentatives nominated by the advisory hoard.

(b) Existing public utilitie5.-Each public utility that has already been granrcd a certificate o f pl~blic convenience shall, in order to maintain or rrnew that certificate o f publicconvcnicnce, agree to accept the two c i t i~en representatives nominated by the advisory board by no later than July 1 , 1981 or the date o i the next election for members of the board of directors which is closest to the effective date of this chapter, whichever is sooner.

(c) Vacancies.-llpon the advisory hoard'\ nomination t r l

fill a vacancy, the public utility shall accept, within 30 days, the nominated candidate to fill out the remainder of the term. During the period of vacancy there shall be no infringement on the utili-

House a motion challenging the constitutionality of the amcudmen[ recently placed before this H~~~~ by [he speaker, M r . Manderino.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman County, Mr. Rcbcr, places before the House a question a s t o the constitutionality of the amendment offered by the gentleman, M ~ , ~ ~ ~ d ~ ~ i ~ ~ ,

O n thcquest ion, Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the amend-

m r n t s ?

ties certificate o f public convenience.


Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, I thank the gentleman ( Berson amble ~ c ~ e r r y ' Seventy

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Reber.

Mr. REBER. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. 1 assure this House that this is not a motion as to the

concept or the concerns o l the consumer. This motion derives its eminence from the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, specifically Article I l l , section 32, subpara- graph 8, which in essence prohibits the General Assembly from passing any special laws amending the charters of corporations.

1 would submit t o this body that any amendment which is going to be carried out as such must fall both under the business corporation law o f the Commonwealth and be applicable across the board generally and not specifically as we are talking about in the instant case. 1 would submit that the courts o f this Commonwealth have traditionally held that the management power and the ultimate right to control business policy o f corporations remains with the owners. The presence of nonelected directors, in my opinion, is somewhat tanta- mount t o a partial disenfranchisement of the shareholders and thus a taking of property rights under the Federal and State Constitution. What we have here is a precedent of very grave concern as it might be employed next week to some other corporation in the Commonwealth.

I would further submit that the United States Supreme Court has clearly enunciated the principle that the furnishing of utility services is not a State function per 5e. Thus, while the State may have an interest in the public utility process, its interest is in fact limited. Not being an owner of the corporation, it may not arrogate to itself certain proprietary rights. To do so would in effect be patently arbitrary and bear no relationship to a legitimate concern of the government interest. There is certainly no legitimate government interest in assuming partial or total control over a board of directors o f public utilities either directly or by such indirect process as we are talking about here.

I further submit to this body that a further discriminatory and unconstitutional denial o f equal protection arises out of the fact 'that not all utilities are affected by this amendment, but rather the amendment is limited to utility corporations. Utilities which are partnerships, sole proprietorships, or some other type of legal entity are not subject to this amendment as drafted despite the fact that they just as much may very well be a public utility under the code.

In short, I would submit that the Constitution of the Com- monwealth prohibits this particular type of action and, addi- tionally, the equal protection clause of the United States Con- stitution so prohibits it as well, and 1 would submit that the amendment as presently drafted is in fact unconstitutional. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. O n the question of constitutionality of the amendment offered by the gentleman, Mr. Manderino, the Chair recognizes the gentleman.

for his dissertation on constitutionality. I only point out to the B1au'n Gannon Maiale Showers Borski George Manderino Shupnik

gentleman that 1 disagree. I know that that is not important, .,,,. cr.hnul.lri tdarminn qt.irr

Assembly to try to do something for the people at home who are asking us and pleading with us to give us some kind of a firm hold in the utility ratemaking process and the management of utility companies.

Now, the gentleman argues that my proposal t o put two consumers on the utility board is unconstitutional because it takes away from a corporation in the Commonwealth one of its proprietary rights. Well, I submit t o you, Mr. Speaker, that we are not talking about just any corporation. We are talking about a public utility corporation. We are talking about a corporation that comes to the Commonwealth to be granted a monopoly, and we are talking about a corporation that has had it recognized from the time that public utility companies have been recognized, that the greatest of all proprietary rights of companies-that being the right to earn a profit-has been severely limited by the public utility law. They can only earn the profit that the Public Utility Commis- sion says they can earn and the law says they can earn. They can earn no more, and this demonstrates that although there is, yes, a proprietary interest in the corporation to earn a profit, when that corporation comes to us asking for a fran- chised area and asking the State to create a monopoly in a certain area, we have the right as a State to impose restrictions.

Mr. Speaker, as to pointing to private corporations, consumer members or foreign members t o boards of directors, 1 point to Pitt, Penn State, Temple, Lincoln University, all private organizations. When they came to the State and put their hand out and asked for a special privilege, we granted thc special privilege over Geneva and St. Vincent and the rest of the private colleges. But when we granted that special favor, we said we will put so many members on the board of directors, as a State, appointed by the Governor, the majority leader, the minority leader, et cetera. We designated who would make those appointments.

We do nothing different today, and our people who are asking us t o please do something about the utility rates in Pennsylvania, I think, deserve no less than an attempt on our part t o give them a say in the corporations. Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER. The question recurs with respect to the constitutionality of the amendment offered by the gentleman. On that question, those who believe the amendment to be constitutional will vote in the affirmative. Those who believe the amendment to be unconstitutional will vote in the negative.

On the question recurring, Will the House sustain the constitutionality of the amend.


YEAS-111

Belardi Fryer Mclntyre Rybak Belfanli Gallarhei McMonaple Serafini

"",-" -.* ... " but I think that it is important t o the members of t h i s ~ e n e r a l / Brawn Gray Michlovic Steighner

I Burns Greenfield Miller Stevens Callagirone Greenwood Morris Stewart

1982

Cappabianca Cawley Clark Colafelia Cole Cardisco Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeWeese Dawida Deal Dombrawrki Donatucci Duffy Durham Emerson Evans Fee

Anderson Armstrong Arty Bittle Bawser Brand1 Buid Cessar Cimini Clvera Clymer Cochran Carnell Coslctt DeVerter Daikeler Davies Dietr Dininn) Dorr Fargo

Alden Beloft

Barber c;~"l.~.

LEGISLATIVE

Giuitza Mrkonic Stuban Haluska Mullen Swaim Harper Murphy Sweet Heiser O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Haeffel O l a v Tigue Horgos Oliver Treilo Hulchin5on. A. Pendleton Van Hornr Irvis Pcrrel Wachub ltkin Petrarca Wambacll Kolter Petrone Wargo Kaaalyshyn Picvsk) W ~ I E Kukavich Pistella Weston Laughlin Pratt Wiggini I.escovit~ Pucciarelli W>ll~ams, J . 11. Letterman Rappaport Wogan Lewn Richardson Wozniak Likengood Rieger \\'righr, U . R. Lloyd Rltter Zu'ikl Lucyk Kocki

NAYS-79

Fleck Lewis Sieminski Foster. W . W. McClatchy Siiianni Faster. Jr . , A. Mackosiki Smith, B . Frrind Madigan Smith. E. H. Gallen Manm!ller Smith. L. E. tieisr Merry Snyder Gladeck Mlcor r~e Spencer Grieco Moehlmann Spit, t i r u p ~ o Mawery Swift Hagart) Nahill Taddonio Hasay I'elerson Taylor, E . %. Hayes Phillips Tclck Hanaman Piccola Vroon Jackson Pitts Wcnger Johnson Pott Wilson Kennedy Punt Wright, J . L. Klingaman Rasco Wright. R. r . Laihinger Reber Lehr Salvatore Ryan. Levi Sailrman Speaker

NOT VOTING-.(

Cohen Kanuck Williams, H .

EXCUSED-5

Frazier Miscevich Noyr


JOURNAL-HOUSE 885

Girl Scouts of America; another one is a radiologist and a physician; another is the president of a real estate corporation; and another is a consultant for agricultural and environmental sciences, and on and on and on.

Mr. Speaker, these people, I am sure, do not know any more about the electric utility industry than does the consumer, your neighbor or mine down the street. And if they can be on the board of directors, Mr. Speaker, then I think certainly so can some of the citizens of this Commonwealth, particdlarly if they have to live in the area served by that utility. I do not see anything wrong with that at all, Mr. Speaker, and I would ask support for the amendment.


Mr. VROON. May I interrogate the author of the amendmcnt, Mr. Speaker?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Manderino, indicates he will stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, under section 2006, in item number (3), we read as follows: "Nominate, within a period of 90 days from the date that applications are first accepted, two individuals to serve as citizen representatives on the public utility board of directors for which he has applied." In another place, Mr. Speaker, you say that you will have one for every four directors on the board. What do you really mean?

Mr. MANDERINO. I did not understand your question, Mr. Speaker.

Mr. VROON. In the one place you say you are going to nominate two for every board, and in another place you say you are going to open up a membership with one citizen for every four members of the board who are not citizens.

Mr. MANDERINO. 1 still do not understand the question. We are saying that at least two will be nominated. At least two will go on every board, and then there is another section-and I am not sure where that is-that speaks to the possibility of having a greater number than two. You are entirely correct.

Mr. VROON. You call for one citizen member of the board

The majority having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative and the constitutionality of the amendments was sustained.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Lehigh, Mr. Ritter.

Mr. RITTER. Mr. Speaker, 1 rise to ask support for the amendment.

I have been contacted, as many of us have, by public utilities that said that we really do not want consumer or citizen representatives on the board of directors, because they really d o not know anything about the industry. So I want to, just for the record, Mr. Speaker, read some of the members of the board of directors of one of the utilities in Pennsylvania: one of the members is the executive officer of Woolrich Woolen Mills, 1nc.-and this is an electric utility industry, Mr. Speaker-another one is the national executive director of the

for every three other members, and obviously with the usual board that is going to be four or five.

Mr. MANDLRINO. Yes; that is only fair. You know, what is the sense in putting two members on the board and then having the utility company expand the board to 93?

Mr. VROON. Yes, but there is a contradiction in item (3). Mr. Speaker.

Mr. MANDERINO. No, there is no contradiction. There is just a question of interpretation, Mr. Speaker. There must be at least two, and then to insure that those two will have proper say, sway, we make sure that the board does not get packed by an expansion of the board by providing additional members, depending upon how many members there are on the board of directors.

Mr. VROON. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I finished my interrogation. May 1 now make some

remarks? The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order and may

proceed.


Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, although i t was found to be constitutional by this body, this i r definitely a violation of corporate law and corporate practice. We really do not have any right whatsoever to nominate private citirens to a board of a utility company or any other pri\,ate corporation in this Commonwealth, and I would daresay that we have justification for opposing this amendment in this respect.

In the first place, we have the Office of the Consumer Advocate. The OCfice of the Consunler Advocate costs the- people o f the Com~nonwealth who pay their utility bills something like $2 million a year, and i t is going up and up and up. Not t o say that I am against the idea of having a Consumer Advocate, but we do have a strong advocate o f the people in that body.

Secondly, we do have a PUC, which is also obligated to act as a consumer advocate, although i t is also obligated to proteat the interests of the Commonwealth as awhole.

To add another requirement to put people on the board of directors of these companies who will he paid the same as the professionals who serve on those boards, these peoplc who are experts in their field attd who are very well trained in corporate managemenl, actually we are not going to achieve onc bloody thing. The truth of the matter is, although I like the idea of the peoplc having a voice, I say we did gladly concede to the Consumer Advocate t o give them that voice. There are some utility companies in this Commonwealth who have vol- untarily set up a board of advisers on which citizens may serve, and I certainly would encourage that, but it should be definitely on a voluntary basis.

This is not really a necessary provision at all, an,d I would think that we would be very, very wrong in trying to intrude this far into the management of utilities. I think we are doing all right without this, and I would ask for a "no" vote on this amendment

The SPEAKER. The Chair rccognizcs tho minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, two brief points: One, I

think that the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, has no rieht to assume that the advisory board set up by this amendment would not pick persons to serve on the utility board uho will not be well versed in the management of such a company, at least as well versed as present directors on the utility boards. You have no right to assume that.

The fact that you agree that there is room for an advisory board o f consumers advising the board of directors of a public utility and you would like to see the expansion of that just begs the question. We have that. They have no power. They make their recommendations; they do their studies; and then they are in many cases ignored. What we are asking is that we be given a fair share o f the direction of the company that really exists because o f the consuming public and the investment that the consuming public is called upon more and more to make in the capital of the corporation.

1 ask for an affirmative vote. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from

Bucks, Mr. Burns. Mr. BURNS. Mr. Speaker, if Mr. Manderino would answer

one quick question for me.

1-hc SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will stand for interrogation. Thegentleman may proceed.

Mr. BURNS. Mr. Speaker, is there a severability clause in this amendment? In other word?, let us suppose that, for whatever reasons, the court holds that this amendment would be unconstilutional. Does that then negate the whole bill?

Mr. MANDERINO. I do not think that the amendment, Mr. Speaker, speaks with any language of the severability of sections of the amendment. It may well be, and 1 will not vouch one way or the other, hut some of the members are telling me that the Statutory Construction Act speaks tosever- ability in the case that certain sections are not constitutional.

hlr. BURNS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Would il then, Mr. Speaker, he fair to assume that if the

portion of the bill that we are speaking to now was declared unconrtitutibnal, that this would not throw out theentire bill?

Mr. MANDERINO. That is my belief. Mr. BURNS. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr.

Vrooo. Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, whereas you did say that there

is nothing to prevent the advisory board from appointing experts to the board, nevertheless, i t is not stipulated that these people must be experts in this field. There is no guarantee whatsoever but that you might wind up with some very inadequately trained people sitting on the board of directors. I do not think that is really what we want to do here.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I again feel that the presence of a few people who are not stockholders of the company on the board of a public utility corporation is going to d o one thing for the ratepayer out there. The fact of the matter is- May I suggest something which may startle you? In view of the fact that we are going through a shake-up period in the automobile business, a shake-up period in which management is letting their hair down and letting the unions see what they are really doing in the way of profits and so on, you might wake up and realize that these people will be getting a real education, and maybe they \+ill do more to help the utilities on their side of the fence than the corlsumers whom they are supposed to represent, because I would suggest that it does take expertise t o run a utility company, and believe me, Mr. Speaker, utility companies today are not making out like bandits. They are up against it. The utility companies are having all that they can do to attract the working capital that they need, and I do not think for one minute that they need to pay people who are not expert in the field of helping them raise money and making the decisions to run that utility company efficiently, because when that is run efficiently, the consumer benefitsas well.

I really do not see one thing to be gained for the consuming public in this amendment, and 1 strongly urge its defeat.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Lehigh, Mr. Ritter.

Mr. RITTER. Mr. Speaker, would the gentleman, Mr. Vroon, consent to interrogation?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman indicates he will. The gentleman may proceed.


Mr. RITTER. Mr. Speaker, you mentioned that i t takes a certain expertise to be on the board of directors o f a corporation. Could you tell me what hind of expertise we are talking about to be on the board of directors o f an electric utility company!

Mr. VROON. I think a ~nember of the hoard of dircctors in a public utility company ought to be very \\;ell schooled in the field of corporate finance and economics and especially in the economics of utilities, and if he does not understand the meaning o f raising capital and making a return on capital and all of the economic terms that pertain to running a utility company, he is not going to makc a corrtrihution. The rest of i t is that is what a board of directors is there for.

Mr. Speaker, i t is also mandatory that a member of the board of directors be able to read and interpret and ana ly~e a balance sheet and the profit-and-loss statemcltt and all of thc financial reports that are passed around at the board rneeiing. This is not the kind of thing that the average citizen can do. and I think that unlchh you have people there who know ho\v to do that and truly analyze the financial circumstances of the public utility, we are just running in circles.

Mr. RITTER. Mr. Speaker, 1 thank the gentleman. That is the end of my interrogation.

Mr. Speaker, the gentleman pointed out a couple o f arcas that he thought somebody oughi to have expertise in. As I indicated earlier, one o f the public utility companies, one of the electric companies, has on its board of directors a consultant from State College, a consultant in agriculture and environmental sciences. I am not so sure, Mr. Speaker, he could sit in a board room and peruse all of the reports that come down and do any bctter a job than some people 1 can name who are just simply private citizens.

Mr. Speaker, on that same board of directors is a physician- radiologist, and 1 am not so sure that he either might understand some of the financial reports that come bcfore the board of directors, Itor might he understand how to raise capital to operate that corporation, hccausr I am not so sure that he is a member of a corporation.

Mr. Speaker, there are ottter members of other boards of directors of other utilities in the same situation, and I am saying to you. Mr. Speaker, as I said before, that if you can take people who are not experts in that particular field and put them on the board of directors simply because they happen to be somebody of prominence in a particular area, then I do noi see anything wrong with taking citizens from the area t o be represented and having them on the board of dircctors. That same electric utility company, Mr. Speaker, has on its board of directors, I daresay, about 4 or 5 of the 15 board members who d o not live or work in the area served by that utility. Is that any differeni thap some private citizen from that area who is served by the utility being on the board o f directors and having at least a voice in the opcraiion of that company that affects them on a day-to-day basis, as opposed to somebody from Washington, D.C., served by a. utility company operating in Pennsylvania'?

Mr. Speaker, 1 think the amendment makes some sense. I t is not going to d o violence to any utiliiy company. I t will

simply assure that the voice of the little guy or, as somebody said some years ago, Mom and Pop have a voice on that utility board and in the operation of that company, and so 1 ask again, Mr. Speaker, for support for the Manderino amendment.

The SPEAKER. Does the gentleman from Cambria, Mr. Ste\\'arr, desire recognition?

Mr. STEWART. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The gentleman may proceed. Mr. STEWART. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to support the Manderino amendment. We require by

law lay persons on boards of directors of many insurance companies that operate in this Commonwealth - Blue Cross, Blue Shield. Delta Dental, Paid Prescription Corporation. We do that because they operate under the rules and regulations of the Insurance Department, just as utilities operate under the rules and regulations of the PUC.

Now, if Mr. Vroon's problem or fear is that these civilians or lay people being members of the boards of public utility companies will somehow hinder their profitmaking, he only needs to look to Blue Cross and some of the third-party paid prescription programs, dental programs. It certainly has not hindered their making a lot of money, questionably in some case?, and 1 think that fear is invalid.

I think the Manderino amendment is long since needed, and I urge its passage.

WELCOME

The SPEAKER. The Chair is pleased to welcome to the hall o f the House today delegates from the Pennsylvania arm of rhc National Federation of Independent Businesses, here today ab the guests o f the members of the House. The group is in the balcony and starting to file out. We wanted to say hello to you before you left.


PARLIAMENTARY INQUIRY

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, parliamentary inquiry. The SPEAKER. The gentleman will state his point of par-

liamentary inquiry. Mr. DAVIES. Could the amendment be separated so that

there would be the consideration o f subsection 2005? The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman restate the division that

he would seek'? Mr. DAVIES. Yes. The separation out and the consider-

ation of section 2005 of the Manderino amendment 7295 and the necessary portions at the beginning of the amendment t o make that part a feasible part of HB 1191.

'The SPEAKER. I t would appear t o the Chair that the amendment is divisiblp. The Chair would suggest t o the gentleman, however, if he is intending to separate 2005, that he also consider 2006, which.relates, as the Chair looks at it, to the preceding section.


Mr. DAVIES. I stand corrected. Mr. Soeaker. That would I Canoabianca Gruitra O'Donnell ~. ~~~~~. ~~~~~~ -

be correct. It would be 2005 and 2006. That would be my parliamentary inquiry.

The SPEAKER. It is the opinion of the Chair that i t is divisible.

MI. DAVIES. If I would be in order then, Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to consider those two portions.

The SPEAKER. The gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies, has asked that amendment A7295, offered by the gentleman, Mr. Manderino, be divided-Mr. Davies, would you listen carefully to the Chair to determine if this is properly stated- so that the first vote will be on the entire amendment with the exception of sections 2005 and 2006. Is that correct?

Mr. DAVIES. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, I have difficulty under-

standing how this amendment can be severed. In section 2005 we set up an advisory board; in section 2006 we talk about what the duties of the advisory board are. The rest of the amendment speaks t o putting citizen representation on utility boards, and the two sections that you are talking about describe the method of putting on. If you sever the advisory board, there is n o way left in the amendment t o get those people on the advisory board, and if you will look to section 2007, it speaks to the advisory board again. The test of whether or not something is severable, as I understand it, is whether or not each section can stand alone, and I submit to you that making the severance, it cannot happen.

The SPEAKER. The Chair is about to reverse its oosition. but prior t o doing so, the Chair recognizes the gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, I might explain the intent of the parliamentary inquiry is that while I am not in agreement with the scope of the entire amendment in putting these people on, which again 1 maintained originally would be a violation of the Constitution and the property rights of the corporation, 1 think that there would be justifiable reasons to create an advisory board and pursue duties of an advisory board to a public utility, which 1 think could fall within the constitutional parameters that we now have in our Constitu- tion in Pennsylvania. Therefore the reason for the question about the division of the amendment.

The SPEAKER. The question recurs, will the House agree to the amendment in its entirety, as offered by the gentleman from Westmoreland, Mr. Manderino?



YEAS-129

Arty Belardi Belfanti Berson Bittle Blaum Borski Boyes Brown Burns Caltagirone

Fargo Lucyk Fee Mclntyre Fryer McMonagle Gallagher Maiale Gan~ble Manderino Cannon Manmiller George Michlavic Grabowski Morris Gray Mrkonic Greenfield Mullen Greenwood Murphy

Seventy Showers Shupnik Smith, 6. Smith, L. E. Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban

. . Cawlcy Halurka Olasz Clark Harper Oliver Cochran Hasay Pendleton Cohen Hoeffcl Perzel Coiatrlla Horgos Petrarca Cole Hutchinsan, A. Petrone Cordisco lrvis Phillios Coslett Cowell Cunn~ngham DeMedio DeVertcr DeWeese Dawcda Deal Dombrowski Donatucci Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Anderson Armstrong Bowser Brand1 Burd Cessar Cimini Ci~era Clymer Coinell Daikeler Daiies Dielz Dorr

l tkin ~ievsky Klingaman Pistella Koiter Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukorich Punt Lashinger Rappapon Laughlin Richardson Lehr Rieger Lescov~tz Ritter Letterman Racks Levin Rybak Livengood Salvatore Lloyd Serafini

Foster, J r . , A. McVerry Gallen Mackowrki Geist Madigan Gladeck Mar mion Grieco Merry Gruppa Micazrie Hagarty Miller Hayes Moehlmann Heiser Mowery Honaman Nahill Jackson Peterson Johnson Piccola Kennedy Pitts Levi Port

APRIL 19,

Swaim Sweet Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trella Van Horne Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Weston Wiggins Williams. H. Williams, J. D Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R . Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Saurman Sieminski Sirianni Smith, E. H. Snyder Spencer Swift Taddanio Taylor, E. 2. Vroon Wenger Wright. J. L.

Ryan. Fleck Lewis RBSCO Speaker Foster. W . W. McClatchy Reber

NOT VOTING-5

Alden Dininni Freind Kanuck Beloff

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frarier Miscevich Noye Fischer



amended? Mr. MANDERINO offered the following amendments No.

A6003:

Amend Title, page 1 , line 2, by inserting after "Statutes," removing certain utilities from the sliding scale of rates provision and

Amend Bill, page I , by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1 . Subsection (a) of section 1307 of Title 66, act of

November 25, 1970 (P.L.707, No.2301, known as the Pennsyl- vania Consolidated Statutes, is amended to read: 5 1307. Sliding scale of rates; adjustments.

(a) General rule.-Any public utility, except a common carrier, may establish a sliding scale of rates or such other method for the automatic adjustment of the rates of the public utility as shall provide a just and reasonable return on the fair value of the property used and useful in the public service, to be determined upon such equitable or reasonable basis as shall provide such fair return. A tariff showing the scale of rates under such arrange-

inserting 4. Section I of this act shall take effect immediately business can be used to offset increases in another area. This

and the remainder of rhiq is not the case with automatic rate increases. The cost of fuel,

1982 LEGISLATIVE JOURNA1,-HOUSE 889

ment shall first be riled with the commission, and such tariff, and each rate set out therein, approved by it. The cost of fuel or energy used or purchased by an electric utility whose yearly r c v e nues exceed $2,500,000 shall not be subject to a sliding scale of rates or to automatic adjustment of rates but shall be included in the base rate schedules under the procedures provided in this act for the filing of base rate increases. The inclusion by an elcctric utility of sluch fuel and energy costs in the base rate schedules shall be effectuated by the conversion of such fuel or energy costs by the filing of revised base rate schedules incorporating at a flat rate the per kilowatt-hour charge, on an annual basis, that will provide revenues equivalent to those provided by the adjustnlent of rates under thih section. Each electric utility seeking to incorporate into the revised bare rats schedules any accumulated fuel and energy costr which were unrecovered by the automatic adjustment of rates at the time of conversion shall amortize these costs over a period of at least live years. The commission may revoke itr approval at any time and f i n other rates for any such public utility i f , after notice and hearing, thc corn mission finds the existing rates unjust or unreasonable.

* * * Amend Sec. I , page I , line 7, by striking out " I " and insert-

ing 2

Amend Sec. 1, page I, lines 8 through I I , by striking out the comma after "Title 66" in line 8, all of lines 9 through I 1 and inserting

of the act are amended and a definition is added to read:

~~~~d set. 2, page 2, l i n e 25, by strikirlg out "2" where it appears the first time, and inserting

3 Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6, by striking out "3. This" and

increased by a total of $955 million. That amount is 45 percent of the 12-year figure of $2.1 billion in increases.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ l ~ ~ ~ d into an average increase per customer over the past 4 years, electric rates have gone up $214 per customer. This saggering escalation in rates is a product of both the base rate increases and the fuel adjustment increases. In many cases, utilities are getting two rate increases per year.

Several years ago the legislature confronted controver. sial issue of fuel adjustment increases. I think many of you now believe that we made a mistake in not abolishing the process. The recent controversy surrounding the manner in which the PUC allowed the PP&L fuel adjustment to go illrough is only that, a recent example of the problems with the process.

The people are clamoring for relief. The people recall that several years ago there were scandals related to the purchase of poor-quality coal, which was passed off as high-grade coal and paid for by the customers as such. We had to confront the fact then, as we do now, that Pennsylvania's electric utilities use coal on a statewide average for 63 percent of the electricity that is generated. In a good many instances, the coal is being purchased from a mine that is a subsidiary of the electric utility.

Finally, we must confront the fundamental inequity of the automatic adjustment process, especially now that many utilities have two rate filings a year - a base rate filing and a fuel adjustment. In the case of the base rate increase, all cost factors are considered, and economies in one phase of the

. . ~ ~ . ~ ~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -~ ~~~~-

On the question, Will the House agree to the amendments'!

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, this amendment pro-

poses the elimination of the outmoded, costly, and unjustified system of automatic.illy adjusting customers' electric bills to reflect fuel cost increases. The automatic adjustment of rales o f the so-called fuel adjustment clause is the process whereby increases in the cost of fuel to electric utilities is almost immediately passed on to the utility customers.

Prior t o the escalation of energy costs in the seventies, the fuel adjustment clause served some useful purpose. In those days, electric utilities went before the PUC for base rate increases and hearings only every 5 or 6 years. In the forties and the fifties, it was probably reasonable to have a shorthand process for dealing with a sudden case o f a change in fuel costs, but the regulatory situation today is dramatically different. In the first place, the major utilities are now going in to the Public Utility Commission for base rate increases almost every year. A trend analysis shows that the frequency of base rate filings picked up in the early seventies. Since 1978, with virtually few exceptions, each o f the eight major electric utilities has been filing for increases every year. Since 1970, the PUC has granted the State's electric utilities rate increases amounting to $2.1 billion. That is increases, $2.1 billion. Since 1979, in not quite 4 years, electric rates have been

we need lo remind ourselves, is less than 50 percent of the cost of delivering electricity. It is manifestly unfair for the process to continue that looks at less than half of the story in granting rate increases.

Mr. Speaker, we are asking again that the consumer of Pennsylvania be allowed to see that every increase in his utility bill be geared to cost of doing business which is fairly attrib- uted to that utility providing the service. Mr. Speaker, that can be done in a rate hearing, and they take place every year, and there is no longer a necessity to automatically adjust the rates of the utility payer because of the cost of fuel. Mr. Speaker, at one time that may have been necessary when filings for rate increases took place every 4 or 5 years or even longer spans o f time, but with the major utilities, electric generating utilities, before the PUC each year, we can examine the energy costs, the fuel costs for that utility in the same rate hearing without difficulty. I ask that we now abolish through this amendment the outmoded system of the fuel adjustment charge. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.


Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, this is not an old-fashioned process by any means whatsoever. The fuel adjustment clause is a very good clause. It saves people money. I want you to understand this. It saves people money, because as the fuel goes up, but also as the fuel goes down, it is reflected in the utility bills. By eliminating this, you are going to wait until the

890 LEGISLATIVE

next time around when they ask for a rate increase, and you are not going to get the benefit o f what is now a falling pattern in fuel rates.

Let me illustrate the point. I have before me a newhpaper article which indicates that Philadelphia Electric Company has filed a reduction in its energy cost rate o f one-half cent per kilowatt-hour effective on bills based on meter readings as of May I , 1982. The 6-percent decrease in these bills uill s a w the typical residential customers about $2.62 a month, lowering the average bill from $43.73 to $41.11. That is an instance of the fuel adjustment going down. And why do you suppose it is going down? Because oil is going down, and PE uses a lot of oil. As oil goes down, there will be more and more competi- tion for the other modes of fuel, and we will be able to readily pass along this way, the way it is right now, we will be able to pass along these decreases. We should not wait tor a year from now and fold them into the rate base. Believe me, if you wait until you change the rate base, you are not going to be able to go back and get the benefit of these decreasc5. 1 think this is utter folly. This ha5 worked very well

Adjustments are thoroughly audited. All of the fuel adjustments by all the companies are thoroughly audited by the PUC. Coal purchasing is carefully monitored by the PUC. All the coal purchasing is very carefully examined by experts in the PUC. Fuel adjustments are flattening, and they arc g r a d u ally falling. Now is not the time t o get rid of this clause, because we want our customers to get the benefit o f falling rates. I srrongly urge a "no" vote on this. Thank you.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Gallagher.

Mr. GALLAGHER. Thank you. Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, 1 am supporting Mr. Manderino's amend-

men1 t o d o away with the electric fuel charge. That is as it is known for the Philadelphia Electric Company.

I have here in my hand my bill for this past month for my home back in Levittown, and it shows what Mr. Vroon was just talking about, a reduction in the fuel charge. My bill for my own home was only 503 units. That is a very small amount. Five hundred units is usually the minimum. The fuel charge is $2.63. Now, he is saying that i t goes 1tp and i t goes down. I have not seen it go down yet. In my house I have to use oil to heat the house, and nowhere does chat oil company give me a reduction, nor nowhere can I get a fuel charge to somebody else to heat my home. So this is trying to contain electricity, which we d o at my house; we keep the electric down. We still are faced with a $2.63 fuel charge, a $1.60 State charge, and then a gross receipts tax of $1.96. So i t is a total of $6.19 for the electricity that we are using here. We are paying for the electricity, but we are going to pay in addition to the use of that electricity, which is the rate cost. We are going to pay the Philadelphia Electric Company the $2.63 because their oil is higher; we are going to pay them the State tax charge which we tax them on: and then 1 , the consumer, am going to pay the gross receipts tax which we put on the utilities, so it all comes back here.

I think that Mr. Manderino's amendment is in the right direction because nowhere does the consumer who user oil

JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19,

and electricity get any fuel adjustment charge from his fuel oil company or from anybody else outside of coming from his own paycheck, so 1 think this is in the right direction. The utilities ought to go back to the stockholders and ask them to forgive the dividends for that year that the oil went up that high ro that they can still get their money back instead of coming back to us and helping us to support the stock dividends o f the utilities. So, Mr. Speaker, I urge the members to support Mr. Manderino's amendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. I I.OYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. The gentleman, Mr. Vroon, has made some valid points

about the fuel adjustment clause. Now, he has said that one of the problems with abolishing the clause is that therefore, in those rare instances in which the fuel cost would drop, that drop will not aulomatically be passed on to consumers, and that is true. He is right. He also implied, and he could have gone on to elaborate, that there is a windfall to consumers when a ncu nuclear power plant comes into operation and the company is required to automatically begin passing through to its ratepayers the savings because the fuel now costs less to generate electricity and the company has not yet received rate base recognition of its new plant. He is right about that as well. I t is also possible that if we did not have a fuel cost adjustment, the rate of return which utility companies would get would be higher because the Public Utility Commission and investors would perceive utility stock t o be a riskier investment. All those things are true, and if it went only that far, then I would say we ought to vote against this amendmcnt.

Rut, Mr. Speaker, I think there are some adequate answers to all of those concerns. The issue here really is efficiency, because what happens is [hat at the present time when the clectric company can automatically pass on its cost of fuel, it does not have an adequate incentive to bargain hard for the price of coal. More importantly, i t does not have an adequate incentive t o try to make sure [hat its most efficient plants are up and opcrating on an ongoing basis, because if you will consider the following scenario: I am an electric company and I have a very efficient coal-fired power plant which goes out of service. At the present time, under the fuel clause, I can pass on auton~atically to my customers the cost of the replacement power which I have to buy to take care of them because my plant is out of service. At the same time, I get t o continue to charge my customers a depreciation expense on that plant which is not operating, and 1 get to charge my customers an operating expense for that plant which is not operating, and I get to continue earning a rate of return on that plant which is not operating. S o I tend t o become indifferent t o whether that plant comes back into service in 2 weeks or 4 weeks or 6 weeks, because in any event I am held harmless. In fact, I might even he better off the longer I let it stay out because I am collecting rates to cover those operating expenses and, depending upon what my maintenance costs are to get. that plant into service, 1 am not spending that money. So we need to abolish the clause in order to provide an incentive for utility

1982 LEGISLATIVE

companies to get those efficient plants back into operation sooner.

Now, the issue has also been addressed that somehow we cannot anticipate the kinds o f significant changes, decreases, in fuel purchase costs in the future. I sobniit. Mr. Speaker, that that really is not entirely the case, that every utility company in every major rate case does a computer run as to what plants are going to be operating, if they are using a future test year, what plants are going to be operating o\'er the course o f that test year, when the plants are going to be out for maintenance, how much that maintenance is going to cost, what the operating costs are going to be, and, in fact, what thc capacity factor or what the fuel usage is going to bc for those plants. Those companies also make computer run? for another adjustment in a rate case to anticipate changes in the sale and purchase of either the sale of excess power or the purchase when they have a shortage of power from other companies, and there is what is called a reserve capacity adjustment to their operaling expenses. So these things are predictable, and if we abolish the clause, we are not giving up our chance to recognize those and pass on the benefits to ratepayers; we are simply building those particular costs and thore particular gains into the norn~al base rate.

The final point, Mr. Speaker, would be that utility customers tend to become very, very confused when they get their bills and there is a base rate and then there is something called a fuel cost adjustment or an energy clause. In fact, depending upon how volatile the energy cost is, it is possible for consumers to actually cut their consumption and their bills will go up. They do not understand that, and that scnds the wrong signals to the marketplace.

So. Mr. Speaker, I think that the proper thing to do is to abolish the clause. These companies are in for a rate increase at least once every year. They are entitled to use a future test year and to make future projections, and if they guess wrong, if they guess too conservatively, then we have an opportunity to come back and try to reduce their rates if in fact they are earning in excess o f their rate of return. If they are too liberal in their projections of the fuel costs and they actually cost even more than that, they will have to eat that cost just as they do with any other operating expense in which they have underestimated that expense. So, Mr. Speaker, I urge adoption o f the Manderino amendment.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Allegheny, Mr. Itkin.

Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, would Mr. Manderino consent to interrogation?

The SPEAKER. The gentleman, Mr. Manderino, indicates he will stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, if w ~ a b o l i s h the energy cost rate, which now is applied on an annual basis, would the fuel costs be paid up front by the utilities and then recovered subsequently through a base rate change, or would it be the other way around? Would the PUC put into the base rate an estimate of what the fuel charges would be for the ensuing 12 months and then charge the customers appropriately?

JOURNAL-HOUSE 891

Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, my understanding is that when any electric utility generating company is before the PUC for a rate increase, they must justify to the PUC that within their prescribed and allowed rate of return, they must have a rate of thus and so, considering all of the costs that the utility will entail. Exempted at the present time is the fuel cost, which automatically rises and falls monthly with the audits that are done. Mr. Speaker, there is no chance for all of the costs to be reflected in the rate that the customer pays if you have certain things that will cause automatic increases or decreases. For instance, if fuel goes up a few points and that is reflected in your bill, you do not have the opportunity of off- setting that adjustment to the fuel cost by the fact that interest rates went up last month by 2 percent. That company is in a better position, yet they are going to add to your bill because the fuel went up. 1 am simply saying that when you set the rate, you take all things into consideration, and since they are there every year, we ought to allow the fuel costs to be ground into the rate at their rate hearing rather than do it every month automatically regardless of their profit picture.

Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, you did not answer my question. Mr. MANDERINO. I did not understand your question, so

I thought I would take a chance. Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, I will try to rephrase it again. MI-. kfANDERINO. I d o not know the answer t o your

question. Your question is, you know, d o they collect for the fuel they bought last year next year, or d o they project? I think my amendment allows them to project. They project what the fuel costs are going to be in the coming year when they are in for a rate adjustment.

Mr. ITKIN. Well, Mr. Speaker, that is just what they do right now. An'estimate is made by the company as to what their projected fuel costs are going to be. It is reviewed by the commission to see whether in fact the estimates seem realistic. If for some reason there is a shortfall and the commission does not approve the energy adjustment rate, then subsequently the utility is allowed to collect. If on some other hand the utility is granted a rate which exceeds the amount of their fuel costs for the ensuing 12 months, then the customers receive a refund with interest. Now, would the customers receive a refund with interest if this particular amendment went in?

Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, t o the best of my understanding, presently when they make a rate and they make their projections and they are given a rate by the PUC, that is the rate they live with until the next rate case, and that is the way it would be. There would be no refunds with interest, not that I believe any have ever been made. In fact, the PUC ordered, when this General Assembly did an investigation several years ago, there was an order that some $19 million in your part of the State, in the western part of the State, be refunded to utility customers because of an ill application of the fuel adjustment charges, and, Mr. Speaker, those customers are still waiting fortheir $19million.

Mr. ITKIN. Mr. Speaker, I would like to put it all in per- spective. It may have been.$l9million. The number that sticks in my mind was more like $14 million.

892 LEGISLATIVE

Mr. MANDERINO. I will not argue. Mr. ITKIN. But when you consider what you are talking

about in terms of fuel costs in the range of billions of dollars over a several-year period, when you look at i t percentagewise, it does not seem to be percentagewise a very significant amount of money. In fact, a delay of several months in collecting, if there is an interest rate problem here, could realize far greater expense to the customers than this type ol' thing that you are suggesting, although il is my understanding that the PUC does examine the energy cost rates prior to them approving them. In other words, although rhe utilities once a year do provide an energy cost rate, those rates must be subject to approval by the PUC, and they in essence do what they would d o at any rate proceeding, to look at the reason- ableness of what is going to be expected to be incurred by the utility for fuel costs and then providing the necessary change in the rate base to accomplish this.

There are two things that I am concerned about with this change, irrespective of the popular mood that exists among our constituents. Number one, if the situation is that the utilities have to spend those fuel costs before they may receive reimbursement from a rate base, what necessarily is going to happen is that over a 12-month period, the consumers are going to be assessed the interest charges on the cost at which the fuel had to be paid for 12 months earlier. So what you are going to see ultimately, if that is thc situation the PUC devel- ops, is that the fuel charges will bc paid a year later, but they will be paid at 1 year's interest rate, which may drive the fuel costs 10 or 15 percent higher. If you are talking about the small consumer, the one who does not go in and use his money and invest it at prime at 17 or 18 percent, what you are going to find out is if he is prudent enough to squirrel away that $9.95 or the $10 a month that he might save and put it away in a passbook savings account, he will rea l i~e 5 1/4 percent, but then a year later the utility will get 15 percent more on their fuel costs.

If it works the other way, whereby the commission estimates what the fuel charges might be, I do not see much o f a change. l n fact, if there is a concern on the part of the commission for the financial stability o f the utility, they could, as has been said on a previous occasion, go ahead and grant the utility more for its expected fuel costs then, which is now the case, and without the penalty o f having to make a refund back to the customers.

Now, this legislature has dealt with this problem for a number of years. We have had these monthly fuel adjustment clauses, and several years ago we abolished them. I think we did the right thing at rhat time. We abolished them and put in place an energy cost rate, which basically said that if the utilities with the commission's approval overcollect, they will have to refund to the customer with interest any overcollection costs. If the utility undercollects, then subsequently the following year when it comes up to its next energy cost rate review, it may collect again. I basically see that as pretty much similar t o what we are trying to accomplish with this amendment but with less problems in terms of incurring additional costs on the part of the consuming public. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.


The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, much o f what the previ-

ous speaker says is probably true, but the easier way to do it is in one rate hearing a year, not the audits that take place every month that we are spending a lot of money for. Everything can be balanced in that one hearing.

The biggest concern that we have in the present system is the one mentioned by Mr. Lloyd, that they may not be making efficient purchases, and we will be able to look at that in the one hearing. True, we look at it in the rate hearing now; why have a dual process? It does not make sense. They are in there every year. They have been in there every year of late, at least once a year for rate increases. The fuel adjustment clause is a clause rhat at least my utility payers have said, get rid of it. 1 am willing to say get rid of it so long as I know that the utility companies can operate and can make their fair return without insulting the customer with that additional charge every month, which isautomatic.

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Clearfield, Mr. George.

Mr. GEORGE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, I have listened very intently to the last couple

of gentlemen about this fuel adjustment. I daresay that for many legislators who hear me at this time, it would seem that their nlrmory is quite short, for it was only 5 years ago when a committee of this House, under the sanction of the Speaker, found that there were several utilities in violation of the so- called fuel adjustment. I would believe that all that is said again o f fuel adjustment could not possibly be true, but just about all that could be said to abolish fuel adjustment, to abolish net energy, would be more than accurate, and I give the following reason: It is unique, Mr. Speaker, that Mr. Manderino reminded us that that $19 million has never been paid back to the users or the ratepayers. Would that not be something if the court was to decide that that money was to be paid back, those moneys that were charged in error were to be paid back, and the Public Utility Commission had to grant a rate increase to the utility so they would have the money to pay back those excessive costs? Would that not be something?

Though the speaker before me mentioned what is fair and what is not fair, he knows very well that many years ago the Federal Government put into effect the fuel adjustment. The fuel adjustment clause was put there, yes indeed, to protect the utilities, because during wartime, their fossil fuels and their oils were quite difficult to get a hold of, and they felt they should be able to go out and procure these fuels. It is quite unfortunate. Mr. Speaker, that they did not use the tool that government gave them in a manner that was honest and efficient.

The previous speaker said, well, you know, it can go up and i t can go down.'Let me assure all of you that if you talk to the average senior citizen in your area and if they are told in fact that they were overcharged for electric use in December and that they will get it back in June, it does not make much sense, because I daresay that many fine people have to do without so they can meet their obligation of their utility bill.


For 5 years we sat here. We can no longer blame this matter [ REMARKS ON VOTE on the Public Utility Commission, because it is an action that the legislature should take, and we should take it today to abolish it. Thank you very much.



YEAS-180

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson BiIIle Blaum Bowier Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cahen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Caslett Cnwell

Evans Farga Fee Fleck Faster. W . W . Foster, J r . . A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Cannon Gelit George Cladeck Grabowski Greenfield Greenwood Crieco Gruit~a Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgoi H!llchinson. A.

Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McManagle McVerry Mackowiki Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Mifhlovic Micozrie Miller Maehlmann Morris Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olav Oliver Pendleton Per~el Peterson Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccola

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Shuwcrs Shupnik Sieminiki Sirianni Smith, B. Smith, L . H. Smith. L. E . Snyder Spencer SpiIr Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. 2. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach -~ ~~ ~~~~~~~~ . ~~~

Cunningham Johnson Pievsky Wargo DeMedio Klingaman Piitella Wais DeVerter Kolter Pitts Wenger DeWeese Kowalyshyn Port Weston Daikeler Kukovich Pratt Wiggins Davies Lashineer Punt Williams. H Dawida Laughlin Rappaport Williams, J. D. Deal Lehr Rasco Wilson Dietz Lescovitz Keber Wogan Dininni Letterman Richardson Wazniak Dombrowski Levi Rieger Wright, D. R . Dorr Levin Riiter Wright. J . L. Duffy Lewn Rocks Wright, R C Durham Llvengood Rybak Zwtkl

NAYS-6

Itkin Kennedy Mowery Jackson Madigan

Ryan, Speaker

NOT VOTING-9

Alden Emerson lrvis Pucciarelli Borski Gray Kanuck Swaim Donatucci

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazler Miscevich Noye Fiseher

The question was determined in the affirmative, and amendments were agrr td to.

the

The SPEAKER. For what purpose does the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon, rise?

Mr. VKOON. Mr. Speaker, I was erroneously recorded as being in the positive on amendment A6003 t o H B 1191, and 1 want to be recorded in the negative.

The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be spread upon the record.

MR. ANDERSON REQUESTED TO PRESIDE

The SPEAKER. Will the gentleman from York, Mr. Anderson, come to the rostrum and preside temporarily?

CONSIDERATION OF HE 1191 CONTINUED


amended? Mr. HOEFFEL offered the following amendments No.

A6004:

Amend Title, page I, line 2, by inserting after "Statutes," " further providing for certificates of need and reliability for major electrical generating facilities and

Amend Bill, page I, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1. Section 102 of Title 66, act of November 25, 1970

(P.L.707, No.2301, known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a definition to read: 3 102. Definitions.

Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent provisions of this part which are applicable to specific provisions of this part, the following words and phrases when used in this part shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:

"Major generating facility." An electric generating plant and associated facilities designated for, or capable of, operating at a capacity of 50 megawatts or more or the addition of a generating unit of 50 megawatts or more to an existing plant.

* * * I Section 2. Title 66 is amended by adding a c h a ~ t e r to read:

Sec. 1201. Requirement for certificate of need and reliability. 1202. Procedure for issuance of certificate of need and

reliability. 1203. Reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and

resources. 1204. Methodology used for preparing forecasts. 1205. Comments and evaluation of reports. 1206. Inapplicability of chapter to certain facilities. 1207. Certificate prerequisite to certificate of public

convenience. 5 1201. Requirement for certificate of need and reliability.

(a) General rule.-No public utility which generates electricity shall acquire, construct or begin to operate a major generating facility without having obtained from the commission a certificate that the present and future public necessity requires or will require acquisition or construction o f additional generating capacity and that the means of production of power by the proposed facility has been demonstrated from the standpoint of providing adequate, economic and reliable service to satisfy local, State and regional energy requirements.


(b) Criteria for issuance.-Consideration shall be b. liven to conservation, cogeneration, load management and renewable solar and other energy sources and to the economy and technological development of various sires and types of generatins lacil- ities, including planned and lbrced outage rates and the effect thereof on regional reserve requirements.

(c) When issued.-After the effective date of this chapter, no construction of any facility o r modification of any existing facilitv shall be comn~enced hv anv electric utiiitv without first . . obtaining a certificate of need and reliability. Any facility under construction but not substantiallv cornnleted before the effectwe date o f this chapter shall not be continued without the issuance o f a certificate.

(d) Effect of issuance.-The issuance of a certificate shall constitute a rebuttable presumption o f t h e used and useful nature o f any such facility in any subsequent Stale or local proceeding. 6 1202. Procedure for issuaticc of certificate of nced and ~ ~~

reliability. (a\ Aonlication for certificate.-Ererv aonlication lor a cer- , . . . . . .

tificate of need and reliability shall be made to the conlrnission in writing, be verified by oath or affirmation and be in such furm and contain such information as the commission may requirc by its reeulations. .

(b) Basis for issuance.-A certificate shall be granted by the commission only if the commission finds and determines that the means of production of power by the proposed facility has been demonstrated t o provide adequate, economic and reliable service t o the customers in the utilities service area. In meeting projected power needs consideration shall be given to conservation, cogeneration, load management and renewable solar and orher enerav sources. Dower available from regional Dower erids and to -. the relative economy and technological development of various sizes and tvoes of peneratine facilities. Consideration shall also be given to pfamed a i d forcedoutage rates and the effect thereof or, regional reserve requirements.

(c) Terms and conditions.-In granting the certificate, the commission may impose such conditions as i t deenis to bc just and reasonable. Any holder of a certificate of need and reliability, by exercising the authority confirmed by the certificate, shall be deemed to have waived any and all objecrions to the terms and conditions of the certification.

(d) Investigations and hearings.-In every case, the commission shall make a finding o r dctermination in writing stating whether or not its approval is granted. For the purpose of enabling the commission to make such finding o r determination, it shall hold such public hearings and, before o r after hearing, i t may make such inquiries, physical examinations, evaluations and investigations, and may require such plans, specifications, estimates of cost o r other data, as it deems necessary o r proper in enabling i t to reach a finding o r determination.

(e) Review by commission.-In the event that thc commission issues a certificate of necessity, such certificate may be reviewed by the commission on its own motion at any time. In any subsequent proceedings involving the generating facility, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the commission's determination on the need for such facility is valid. B 1203. Reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and

resources. (a) Preparation and filing.-Every electric utility in this

Commonwealth shall prepare and transmit to the commission within 180 days of the effective date of this chapter, an initial report specifying 5 , 12 and 20-year forecasts or assessments of loads and resources for its service area and, thereafter, every electric utility shall file the 5, 12 and 20-year forecasts o r assessments every two years. The report shall be transmitted to the commission on a date which the commission by rule or regulation, estab- lishes on a staggered basis for each electric utilitv. The reoort shall set forth the facilities which, as determined by the electric utility, will be required to supply electric power durlny the forecast or assessment periods.

(b) Content.-The report shall be in a form specified by the commission and shall include all o f the following:

(1) A tabulation of estimated peak loads, resources and rcserve margins for each year during the 5 and 12-year forecast or assess~nent periods and an estimate of peak load, resources and reserve margins for the last year in the 20-year forecast or assessment period.

( 2 ) A list of existing electric generating plants in service with a description o f planned and potential generating capacity at existing sites.

(3) A list of facilities which will be needed to serve additional electrical requirements identified in the forecasts or assessments, the general location of those facilities and the anticipated types of fuel to be utilized in the proposed facilities.

(4) A description o f additional system capacity which might be achieved through, among other things, improvements in:.

( i ) Generating or transmission efficiency. (ii) Importation of power. (iii) Interstate or interregional pooling. (iv) Improvements in efficiencies of operation. ) Conservation and load management.

(5) An estimation o f the availability and cost of fuel resources for the 5, I2 and 20-year forecast or assessment periods with a statement by the electric utility describing firm cornmit~nents for supplies of fuel required during the forecast or assessment periods.

( 6 ) A reliability analysis which demonstrates the ten- year forecast of reliability levels obtained from the existing systeni including planned additiona.

(7) 4 n annual load duration curve and a forecast of anticipated peak loads for each forecast o r assessment period for the residential, commercial, industrial and such other major demand sectors in the service area o f the electric utility as the commission determines.

(8) Load duration curve for the preceding year. (9) Projections o f forced and planned outage rates and

operation and maintenance costs (fixed and variable) for the existing and planned facilities.

(10) Capacity and energy resources available via inter- connects with other utilities on a short-term economy basis and on an emergency basis including the probability of availability o f such resources and their estimated cost.

( I I ) Five-year annual fuel use, operation and maintenance costs, equivalent availability factor and heat rate by plant.

(12) A description of projected population growth, urban development, industrial expansion and other growth factors influencing increased demand for electric energy and the bases for such projections.

5 1204. Methodology used for preparing forecasts. The commission shall establish and every electric utility shall

utilize, for purposes of the report, a common methodology for preparing forecasts of future loads and resources. After applying the commission's established methodology t o the mandatory elements o f the report specified in section 1203 (relating to reports o f forecasts and assessments of loads and resources), any electric utility may transmit to the commission supplementary information and forecasts based upon an alternative methodology. If such alternate methodology is employed, the electric utility shall fully describe the data and other components of the methodology and shall spccify the reasons why the approach is considered more accurate than that established by the commission. $ 1205. Comments and evaluation of reports.

For a period of 30 days after the receipt of the reports required under section 1203 (relating to reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and resources), the commission shall receive the comments o f any person on the reports and, within an addi-


tional 30 days, shall make ~ u b l i c its independent evaluation and nnalysih o f the reports. k 1206. Inapplicability o l chapter to certain facilities.

This chapter does apply to any major generating facility ac tu~ ally in operation upon the effective date of this chapter. An) facility under which construction which is not substantially completed as of the effective date of the chapter shall not be conrin- ued without issuance of a certificate. 5 1207. Certificate pl-erequisirc to certiiicatc of public

con\.eniencc. After the effective date of this chap~er, the commission shall

nor issue a new certificate of public convcnicnce nor rcsrore any revoked certificate of public convenience unless the utility has also obtained a certificate of need and reliability from the con,.

and indeed is a far greater amount of capacity than we need, and i t indicates that in the past 10 or 20 years, the utilities have done a poor job of forecasting. Throughout the 1970's the utilities forecasted a growth rate of 7 percent a year. They expected to need 7 percent more electricity every year than the previous year when in fact the growth was far less than that. Philadelphia Electric had an annual growth rate in the 1970's of 2.4 percent, and yet they have started and half-built Lime- rick, for example, that was predicated on a growth demand thai never materialized. In fact, when Limerick opens in 1987, when its second unit comes on board, comes on line as PECO anticinates. Philadclohia Electric will have a ca~ac i tv of 40 . .

mission. percent, an overcapacity of 40 percent at that time, and we are Amend Scc. I, pagc I, line 7, by striking out " I " and insert-

ino all paying for that. So the need for a certificate of need, I '"a

2 Amend Sec. I , page I, lines 8 through 10, by removing the

comma after "66" in line 8, all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Con- wlidated Statutes," in line 10, and inserting

~ ~

t h ~ n k , is clear. We habe voted today already on two certificate-of-need

amendments. The f~rs t was by Mr. Vroon. 1 think that the Vroon amendment is not adeouate because of its vagueness. 1

01' the act, Amend set. 2, page 2, line 25, by s t r ik ing L'2m and insert. think that the amendment does not give the kinds of guide-

ine lines to the Public Utility Commission that we ought to give. u


ing 4


The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. Hoeffcl.

Mr. HOEFFEL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment would create a certificate-of-

need process in Pennsylvania, a system whereby the Puhlic Utility Commission would grant prior approval to the con- s~ruction of a major generating facility before i t could be built. This is identical to HB 1707 that I introduced with 37 cosponsors lasl June.

There is no doubt. Mr. Speaker, that we need a certificate- of-need process here in Pennsylvania. The reason we do and the reason I say that is that the utility companies have a very poor track record in forecasting the amount o r capacity they need to meet demand. Simply put, the utilities have built unnecessary capacity. They have overbuilt, and all of us as consumers and ratepayers are paying for that overcapacity. The utility figures themst.lves indicate this. Figures pulled together by the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, which has forced an organization of utilities callcd the Mid- Atlantic Area Council, indicate that in central and eastern Pennsylvania, the utilities have a capacity of 38 percent over- demand, 38 percent.

Now, peak demand, Mr. Speaker, is figured in this way: The utilities are asked to forecast the highest electricity demand that they would need on the hottest day of the summer or the coldest day of the winter for a 10-year period. They are asked to forecast that peak load, and then the Public Utility Commission recommends that an additional 20 percent over that peak load he built by the utilities so that they can meet any posible demand. So you see that a 38-percent capacity is way over the industry rule of thumb of 20 percent

We ought to set standards. We ought to tell the PUC what to look for when they investigate the request of a utility to build a new generating facility. In fact, we should not only give those guidclines to the PUC; we ought t o give those guidelines to the electric utilities themselves. They ought t o know ahead of time, by legislative decision, what it is they are going to have to prove to the Public Utility Commission in order to get that certificate of need to build a new plant. My amendment specifically provides for those guidelines. It specifically says that once they get that certificate of need, that approval will be used as a rebuttable presumption further down the road that their plant is indeed used and useful and should be put into the rate base.

Mr. Vroon's amendment is silent on that score and would in fact require utilities to jump two hurdles instead o f one in terms of getting the new plant put into the rate base. The Vroon amendment would apply to all utilities, all utilities, would require the phone companies and the gas companies t o get a certificate-or a construction permit, he calls it-for the smallest kind of construction, because he talks about operating units, that all utilities would have to apply for approval t o the PUC for any operating unit. Now, 1 think that is too broad. I recommend that we set up these stricter criteria for major electric generating facilities. My amendment calls for this to apply to facilities of 50 megawatts or more, so that the small pipelines or telephone switching stations that the telephone company might set up or the small facilities that electric utilities might set up will not need a certificate of need, will not need that prior approval. 1 do not think we have to go that far.

The second amendment we dealt with today was by Mr. Wilson, and I believe that was an improvement on the earlier Vroon amendment, but 1 think that Mr. Wilson also was not specific enough in his amendment on the sort of specific things we should be directing the Public Utility Commission to look to. We ought to have them look at alternate sources. Wc ought to have them consider conservation and


cogeneration and load management. We ought to have them look at the local and the regional and the statewide energy needs when they review these certificates of need. We ought to give the PUC some very specific direction on what they should look for when they go through this process.

I think that both of the earlier amendments we have voted on are inadequate, and I hope that the House will approve this one. Thank you.

THE SPEAKER PRO TEMPORE (JOHN HOPE ANDERSON) IN THE CHAIR

Mr. HOEFFEL. It is not specifically included in this amendment, Mr. Speaker. I think that the PUC could certainly look at that sort of thing, because the amendment speaks to looking a t the development of various si7.e~ and types of generating facilities, so I think that the amount of water needed by a nuclear plant, for example, as opposed to a coal plant could be a factor that the PUC could look at, but the amendment does not specifically say, look at water usage, when they do the review.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, the previous speaker had been critical of Mr. Vroon's provision not going far enough. Then

I this does not go far enough, because essentially what the CoNSIDERAT1oN OF HB problem is with an outfit like Limerick is the fact that they do

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Westmoreland, Mr. Taddonio.

Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, I think we have already addressed this issue through the Vroon amendment, enhanced by the Wilson amendment. I think the Hoeffel amendment is redundant and adds a lot of unnecessary specificity. I would oppose the amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Berks, Mr. Davies.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, would the maker of the amendment stand for a question of interrogation?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that he will. The gentleman may proceed.

Mr. DAVIES. What specifics, Mr. Speaker, does reliability include? What specifics does the reliability that you have, line 2, the first word, what do you include in the reliability of that unit?

Mr. HOEFFEL. I am sorry, Mr. Speaker. I do not understand. On page 2 of the amendment?

Mr. DAVIES. No. On the second line of the wording of the amendment, you have "reliability." Am 1 correct?

Mr. HOEFFEL. Yes, Mr. Speaker. I understand. Mr. DAVIES. We are talking about 6004? Mr. HOEFFEL. Yes, sir. I understand your question now. Mr. DAVIES. Okay. Mr. HOEFFEL. The phrase is "certificates of need and

reliability." In other words, I am creating through this amendment a certificate of need and reliability. That is just what it would be called. Mr. Vroon called it a construction permit. I cannot recall what Mr. Wilson called it; he had another phrase for it. He just called for approval. It is simply the phrase that describes the permission. It would be called a certificate of need and reliability. Now, the standards in the amendment direct the PUC to look toward the most reliable source of energy generation, the most economical, and so forth. The PUC is directed to consider all of those factors when they review it.

Mr. DAVIES. All right. Then I will get into the specifics of it. Does it include, for example, the sources of water that are necessary to run the unit, such as Limerick I and 2? Would it include, if it was a proposal for something like Limerick I and 2, the amount of water necessary to run that unit the entire year round? Would that be included in the certification as well as the facility to provide the water?

not have a source of water, and if we go through one other drought like last summer, they would not have the water necessary to produce the nuclear energy at Limerick, and I hope that the people realize that that is true in any part of this State. It can happen at any time, and if we go through the type of extended drought that we have gone through in the last 2 years, the necessary water to operate most atid many of those plants would not be available. In other words, what we are saying when we talk about reliability, we will have to address ourselves to the water situation as well.

Now, what about the management of waste and other products relative to this? Is that included in it since we have not addressed that so far in any one of the plants that we have established within the Commonwealth? 1 am talking about all levels now - the high level, the low level, and all the other levels. Is that also part and parcel of your provision, or is that another one that you would leave to the discretion of the Public Utility Commission?

Mr. HOEFFEL. Mr. Speaker, let me read the key paragraph that I think answers the general concerns you are raising.

Criteria for issuance.-Consideration shall be given to conservation, cogeneration, load management and renewable solar and other energy sources and to the economy and technological development of various sizes and types of generating facilities, including planned and forced outage rates and the effect thereof on regional reserve require- men19 . . . -. . . - .

1 think, Mr. Speaker, that the phrase "the economy and technological development of various sizes and types of generating facilities" does indeed give instruction to the PUC to consider the kinds of questions you are talking about. I think there is a point, Mr. Speaker, where we can go too far as a legislative body in saying precisely what the PUC must review in every case. 1 think the paragraph 1 have read to you gives a clear direction to the Public Utility Commission to consider the kinds of technological problems in development and the economics surrounding those problems that you are concerned with.

Mr. DAVIES. If I might, Mr. Speaker, as far as theamendment is concerned, 1 d o not think that the amendment is broad enough when we are talking about something like water resources. I do not know whether these gentlemen realize

1982 LEGISLATIVE

what we can go through as far as power shortages with any type o f plant in this Commonwealth if we do not have the one basic resource that is necessary, and that is the necessary water no matter what we produce, whether it be by coal power and it is needed there, whether it be by nuclear or what we are going to do with the byproduct as &,ell, and that includes the treatment of waste waters and things of this nature as well, because we are talking about one of the survival resources that is necessary for this entire Commonwealth and the entire State. We are not dealing with something that is haphazard to technology; we are dealing with something that is viral for wr- vival. If we are going to talk about that and we are only going to put i t in one category and say "technology necessary," we are failing to see the very essence of what we have gone through in the last 2 years in this Commonwealth. I do not know what happened as far as Montgomery Coumy or what you have been up against the last 2 years as far as the basic survival source o f water, but what we are concerned with is when somebody wants to come in and ship the water to Lime- rick for the needs of an electric generating plant when we are not going to address the water resources for survival of the people, the agricultural industry, and the rest of the basic r~reds in the Commonwealth.

We are just skirting the question when we talk about doing this one and saying we are going to leave it to the PUC and technology. If you are going to address the issue and you are going to say that it is essential and vital, then you had better get to the one lhing that is vital for all o f these sources of power, with the exception of solar and some of those-and we are not anywhere near those; we are talking about those in place-and that is water. My concern is that if we do not address i t now and you are going to bypass it again, you are doing an injustice to the people of the entire Commonwealth. because the interchange o f that water that is necessary affects all regions, no matter whether i t is Limerick, whether i t is Berwick, or whether i t is those places now, TMI or any o f the rest of them. They d-pend upon that basic, and if you are not going lo provide for the reserves for it, you are missing the boat one more time. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes [he gentleman from Columbia, Mr. Stuban.

Mr. STUBAN. Mr. Speaker, may I interrogate the former speaker, Mr. Davies?

Mr. DAVIES. Yes, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER pro tempore. Mr. Davies indicates he will

stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed. Mr. STUBAN. Mr. Speaker, you know, you are concerned

about water. When a certificate of need is given to somebody to build a plant, are they not required to have backup water to refill the supply that they have used up before that is given to them?

Mr. DAVIES. Yes, they are supposed to, Mr. Speaker. The Limerick plant does not have it because they never developed thpse particular dams that are necessary to add to and supply the water for Limerick, out of either the Perkiomen Creek, the Schuylkill River or the Delaware. It was supposed to be shipped over from the Delaware.

JOURNAL-HOUSE 897

Now, let me talk about the incursion of salt water that you had in the Delaware in the last 2 years. If you took more fresh water away from the Delaware, what would happen to Philadelphia's intake at Frankford for fresh water supply? That need was never established. Those dams were never set up. Theamount of i t was never established and never has been as far as the Delaware River Basin Committee. Here you have the building of a plant without the necessary vital input of water that is supposed to go into it. You have the cart in front of thehorse one more time. You are going to keep it there. All you are going to d o is say you are going to leave it up to the technology o f the PUC. You take your rate of flow in theeast branch of the Susquehanna and ask whether or not the water supply and the necessary needs at Berwick were, as a matter of fact, in place with the ground water supplies that you had on hand in the last 2 years. You will see whether or not they would meet all of the certificates of need of those particular plants as well as all the human needs and the agricultural needs in the last several years. It just is not there. Or as they say in the vernacular, it just ain't there.

Mr. STUBAN. Well, Mr. Speaker, I get concerned with you a little hit and say that maybe the nuclear plant on the Susquehanna near my district is there because when that certificate of need was given, it was taken into consideration about the water supply and the replenishment of that water supply if they did hit a drought in a low level, and I think that the amendments we are giving here today are taking that into consideration. I d o not think that further providing for a certificate o f need and reliability for major electrical generating facilities would take that into consideration. I do not think that they would put a nuclear plant in the center of Philadelphia where they could not get the water need.

Mr. DAVIES. Mr. Speaker, i f 1 might reply t o that. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman may proceed. Mr. DAVIES. All I have to do is give you the example of

Limerick, and you tell me where those four dams that were supposed to supply that water and water supplied in the Delaware and the Schuylkill Rivers have ever been built. The supply is never there, and if you can tell me where that supply for the water source that they had for the last year happens to be, I will withdraw my concern. 1 will sit down. It is just not there. It has never come about.

You are talking about something that is a survival item. It is not something that you are going out and you are going to make more of. What are you going to make the water from? Yeah, well, get out your rain-dancing outfit and do the best you can, or 1 do not know whether you are going to get out one o f those bewitching devices or whatever they call them and find it that way. But you tell me how you are going to supply your eco-agricultural industry, which is number onein this Commonwealth; it is not steel. How are you going to supply people? You have your bond issue, but you do not have any of it out front yet. Thank you. Mr. Speaker.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. Stuban, for thesecond time.

Mr. STUBAN. 1 would like t o comment on the amendment.


1 support the amendment, and I feel that what we are doing here today is we are addressing the fact that the problem that happened at Limerick was something that should not have happened. I feel that the PUC has overlooked the fact that they should replenish that water supply. I think we are addressing those things in the amendments today here with thecertificate of need. I support that amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Bucks, Mr. Wright.

Mr. J. L. WRIGHT. Mr. Speaker, 1 am not rising to support or not support the amendment. I personally will vote for it myself, but I have listened with a great deal of interest to some of the comments that are being made. I would caution the members of this House perhaps to uTe with a great deal of caution things like capacity. Yes, i t is true on a beautiful day like today when we need heat or air conditioning that we may have 40 percent excess capacity in the Philadelphia Electric system. But come the middle of August, if we have one or two major generating units out of service and PE has got to cut back their voltage by 5 percent, we have no excehs capacity.

For those of us who live in southeastertl Pennsylvania, I would point out t o you that one of thohe major generating units, Conowingo, is now more than 50 years old. I t is operating on a year-by-year license from the Federal Government. Conowingo is equal to one nuclear reactor. When that shuts down, we have got a major problem.

For those of us who are still concerned about excess capacity, let me point out t o you that when TMI had its accident, that one unit at TMI was producing 5 percent of all the power being produced in a five-State area. The correction was made in less than 5 seconds. The dispatcher at Valley Forge, in looking at his board, saw that a major unit went out of operation and, within less than 5 seconds' time, brought thc equivalent amount of generating capacity on line to cdver a fi\,e- State area.

Please be careful how we use our comtnents about excess

that you refer to, if i t is not reviewed by the PUC until after the plant is built, is useless to the Public Utility Commission. They are not going to refuse to allow a new plant to go into the rate base, because that would probably bankrupt the utility, so we need to get involved in the act earlier. You obviously agrec. I mean, you are in favor of certificate of need as well. I am maintaining that we need better standards, more explicit standards, and that is why I offer my amendment.

Mr. VROON. But, Mr. Speaker, do you not realize that under my amendment the PUC would have access to all that information, which is far greater than what you have in your amendment? Before the fact, not after.

Mr. HOEFFEL. Mr. Speaker, that may or may not be true. Your amendment is so vague that I do not know what the PUC is going to have available to it, at what point, if anything.

Now, evidently when you first stood up, Mr. Speaker, you said that I had belittled your amendment, and 1 did not hear you when you first said that. I do not belittle your amendment. I agrce with the need for certificate of need. You do, too. I just feel that your amendment does not go far enough. It is a step in the right direction.

hly problem with your amendment is that 1 do not exactly know what information the Public Utility Commission is going to have. It is nor clear on what basis they should make this decision. 1 think that we ought to tell them what to look for, at least a minimum level of things they ought to look for. We ought t o set that standard here. Your amendment does not do that.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, may I make a few remarks? The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and

may proceed. Mr. VROON. All I want to say in conclusion, I would

rather have a whole Loaf than half a loaf. My amendment calls !

for a whole loaf; your amendment is very limited. I strongly uree the reiection of this amendment on that basis.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, may 1 interrogate Mr. Hoeffel? The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates he

will stand for interrogation. The gentleman may proceed. Mr. VROON. Very quickly, Mr. Speaker. In view of the

fact that you belittled my amendment. I jusr want t o put a few things straight.

Is there anything at all in your amendment, Mr. Speaker, which would not be included in the project proposal and the cost justification which is compiled by a utility company when they are considering a new plant? Is there anything at all that they would not have included in that?

Mr. HOEFFEL. The main difference, Mr. Speaker, would be that it would be an arm of the State, the PUC, making those judgments and collecting that information, not the utility company. I think that what we are saying here is that the PUC should be directed to have a prior say before construction begins, not after the plant is built. The information

capacity. There are days when you are going to be very happy that it is there. Thank you.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon.

Anderson

On thequestion recurring, Will the House agree t o the amendments?


Arnlitrong Arty Belardi Beliarlti Beloif Brrson Bittlc Blaun~ Rorski Bowler Buyes Hrandt Brown Burd Burn, Callagiio~ie Cappabianca Caw ley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark

Evans Livengood bargo Lloyd Fec I.ucyk Foster, U. \I. McClatchy Foit~.r, J r . , A. Mclolyrc I-rcind McMonagle Fryer McVrrry Gallagher Mackovski tiallen Madbgan Camblc Maiale Ciannon Manderino Gcirt Manrnlllcr George Merry Gladeck Michlovic Crabowski Micorzic Greenfield Milier Creen~ood Morris Grieco Mowery Crultza Mrkonic tiruppo Mullen Hagarty Murphy Haturka Nahill Harper O'Donnell

Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith, E. H. Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Swaim Sweet Swif t Taylor. E. 2. Taylor, F. E.


Clymer Hasa! Cochran Haye< Cohen l loeffrl Colafella Ilonaman Calc Horgo, Cornell Hutchinson, Cailert 11~11

Corell I tkin DcMedio Johnsoo DeVrrtcr Kanuch OeWeese Kmned) Daikeler Klingaman Davirs Koltrr Llawlda Kuwalyhhyn Dcal Kukovich Dicr? l ash~nger Dininni Laughlm Dombroaiki L e h r I)onatucci I.c?c~vitl Dorr l elterman

Oia~z Oliver Pendlrton Perrei Pcrcrson

A Pctrarca Petronc Phillip, Piccola Pie~~k! Pi,leila Pratl 1'ucciari.lli I'"llt

Kappaport Kaxo Keber R~chardion Killrr

Kncia

Tclck Tiguc Fretlo Van Hornc 'A achi,b \I axnbach \bargo \V>,55

\V<<l<,,,

. . Wright. K . C. Zwikl

Duff) Lcvl Kybak K!ao. Durham I .CYI~ , Salvatore Speaker Emerson l.ewih

NAYS-I0

Cunningham Jackson Pott Vluorl Fleck Marmion Taddonio \lcngcr Hrisei hloehlrnano

NOT VOTING-5

Alder, Gm) Pills Kiege~ Cordlsco

EXCUSED-5

Barbcr rralicr Miwevich Noyr Fischer

The question was determir~ed in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to.

On thequestion recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideration as


A6005:

Amend Title, page I, line 2, by inserting after "further" providing for the inspection and !monitoring o f certain facilities and

131 1 (relating to valuation of property of a public utility) and includes that property in ascertaining either general, extraordinary or temporary rates, the public utility shall waive all ohjec- tions to perrnit the commission to carry out its powers and duties

Amend Sec. I, page I, line 8, by removing the comma after "66" and insrrline -

of the act, Amend Sec. 1 . vaee 1 , lines 9 and 10, by striking out all of line . -

9, and "Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes," in line 10 Amend Scc. 2. page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and insert-

ing 3

Amend Scc. 3, page IS, line 6, by striking out "3. This" and inserting

4. Section I of this act shall take effect immediately and the remainder of this


The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the minority whip.

Mr. MANDERINO. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment provides for the PUC to have

the right of inspection of any nuclear generating facility before it goes on line. Utilities would be required to waive any objection to this inspection by the State agency employed by the PUC, such as the Department of Environmental Resources. Utilities would have t o "errnit installation of State-

(a) General rule.-The commission shall have full power we can d o so by passing this amendment today. and authority, either by or through its members, or duly autho- / presen~lv the f-ederal G~~~~~~~~~ has the on]v insoection

Amend Bill, page I, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1. Section 506 of Title 66, act of November 25 , 1970

(P.L.707, No.230). known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended to read: 5 506. Inspection of facilities and records.

owned monitoring devices within the facility involved. Speaker, we are years after TMI, and the Pennsyl-

vania General Assembly has not yet addressed the issue of nuclear safety so far as Pennsylvanians are concerned. 1 think

~, , , , . . ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ,~ ~r ~ , , . tion, physical examination, inquiry, or investigation of any and I vania, I think, would like to have their State, their elected

rized representatives, whenever i r shall deem i r necessary o r proper in carrying out any o f the provisions o f , or its duties under this to enter upon premises, buildings, machinery, svstem. olant. and eouinmmt. and make insDection. v a ~ u a

. . rights to (he nuclear facilities within the Commonwealth of IJcnn"lvania. Mr. Speaker, the citizens of Pennsylvania who live in the shadow of the nuclear facilities located in Pennsyl-

" . . duties, the commission may have access to, and use any books. records, or documents in the "ossession of, any department,

all plant and equipment, facilities, property, and pertinent records, books, papers, accounts, maps, inventories, appraisals, valuations, memoranda, document^, or effects whatsoever, of any public utility, or prepared or kept for it by others, and to hold any hearine for such ournoses. In the "erformance of such

~ ~

board, or commission of the Commonwealth, or any political

officials, have some responsibility for the safety of those plants, w i th some inspection with monitoring rights, and we can give those rights today, Mr. Speaker, by theadop- tion o f this amendment.

subdivision thereof. Before the commission ascertain5 the fair value of all new construction, extensions and additions to the value of the property o f any public utility as prorided in section

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Westmoreland, Mr. Taddonio.

Mr. TADDONIO. Mr. Speaker, I believe this amendment duplicates what is being done by the Federal Government. 1 think it is just going t o add more costs. 1 believe the monitors


which are required here will cost about $I million a copy, if they are in-stack monitors, as I understand it. I d o not see any need for the amendment and 1 would oppose it, but if you want t o vote for it, that is fine.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the minority whip.

Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, I simply, in urging support of the amendment, want to say that manv oeoole

~ ~ . . . faced with the TMI problem who live in that area were not so happy about some of the things the Nuclear Regulatory Com- mission told them about the plant, were not so happy with the precautions taken before the accident at TMI, were not so

- -- Donatucci Laughlin RBSCO Wright, R . C Dorr Lehr Reber Zwikl Duffy Lescovit~ Richardson Durham Leiterman Rieger Ryan. Emerson Levi Ritter Speaker

NAYS-2

Taddonio Vroon

NOT VOTING-3

Alden Lcwis Stuban EXCUSED-5


Commission and its authorized agencies. Mr. Speaker, I d o not think we can ask less or provide less for persons within this Commonwealth who live very close to nuclear power generating facilities. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

happy with the certification, with the employees, with the testing of the employees. Mr. Speaker, we are just asking that we, in the State where nuclear facilities are located, have a right to monitor what is going on inside the plant, not through an agency that is unfamiliar but through the Public Utility


~h~ question was determined in the and the amendments were agreed to.

REMARKS ON VOTE


YEAS-190

Anderson Evans Levin Rocks Armstrong Fargo Livengaod Rybak Arty Fee Lloyd Saliatore Belardi Fleck Lucyk Saurman Belfanti Foster, W. W. McClatchy Serafini Beloff Faster. Jr.. A. Mclntvre Sevrntv Berson Bittle Blaum Borski Bowser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cawell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski

Freind McMonagle Fryer McVerry Gallagher Mackowski Gallen Madigan Gamble Maiale Cannon Manderino Geist Manmiller George Marmion Gladeck Merry Grabowski Michlovic Gray Micarrie Creeniield Miller Greenwood Marhlmann Grieca Morris Gruitza Mowery Gruppa Mikonic Hagarty Mullen Haluska Murphy Harper Nahill Hasay O'Donnell Hayes Olasz Heiser Oliver Hoeffel Pendleron Honaman Perzel Horgos Pelerr on Hutchinsan, A. Petrarca lrvis Perrane l tk in Phillips Jackson Piccola Johnson Pievsky Kanuck Pistella Kennedy Pitts Klingamh Pott Kolter Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukavich Punt Lashinger Rappaport

~~ ~... Shouers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B . Smith. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Sraim Sweet Swift Taylor. E . Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams. H. Williams. J . D. Wilson ~ ~~

Wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R. Wright, J . L.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Columbia, Mr. Stuban.

Mr. STUBAN. Mr. Speaker, my switch malfunctioned on amendment A6005. I would like to be recorded in the positive.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman's remarks will be spread upon the record.




A6006:

Amend Title, page I, line 2, by striking out "further" and inserting

further providing for the removal of certain utility facilities from rate base calculations in the event of extraordinary outages and

Amend Bill, page 1, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section 1. Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707:

No.2301, known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read: 5 1315. Rates to be adjusted for extraordinary outages of

electric utility facilities. (a) Definition.-As used in this section the term "extraordi-

nary ourage" means an event or occurrence which renders inoperative for a period of at least 90 days any electrical generating or transmitting facility.

(b) Commission powers.-In the event of an extraordinary outage, the commission shall, immediately on the ninetieth day of the outage, remove such facility or facilities from the rate base calculations of the electric utility that operates such facility.

(c) Objection by utility.-lf a utility objects to the procedures of subsection (b), it may petition the commission for a hearing on the removal matter. In granting the requested hearing, the commission Shall not stay or suspend the removal of the facility from the utility's rate base. In any such hearing, the burden of proof shall rest upon the utility to rebut the presumption that the utility was operating the facility or facilities in an imprudent and unreasonable manner. Failure of the utility to rebut the presumption of imprudent and unreasonable management policies shall result in the continuation of the removal order until such time as the facility or facilities have been returned to full operating capacity.


Amend inserting

(d) Regulations for section.-The commission shall, within 90 days of the effective date of this section, promulgate rules and regulations to implement the powers granted by this section. Such regulations shall include the requirement that each electric utility notify the commission when a facility or facilities have been inoperative for a period of seven days and whether, with respect to such facility or facilities, the utility has reason to believe that such inoperative period shall continue for at least 30 days.

Amend Sec. I, page 1, line 7, by striking out "1" and inserting

2 Amend Sec. I, page I, line 8, by removing the comma after

"66" and inserting of the

Amend Sec. I, page I, lines 9 and 10, by striking out "of November 25, 1970 (P.L. 707, No. 230). known as the "Pennsyl- vania Consolidated Statutes,"

Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25 , by striking out "2" and insert. ing

3 Sec. 3, page 15, line 6, by striking out "3. This" and

Utility Commission the implicit authority to question the prudence of electric company managers. Mr. Speaker, I urge the adoption of the amendment,

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Lehigh, Mr. Snyder.

Mr. SNYDER. Will the maker of the amendment please consent to interrogation?

The S P E A ~ E R pro tempore, ~h~ indicates (hat he will.

Mr.'SNYDER. Mr. Speaker, how does this address utility companies that perhaps close plants down for preventive maintenance on a regular basis, rather than just dealing with poweroutages?

Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, that would not be an extraordinary outage, and my guess would be, Mr. Speaker, that ordinarily you are not more than 90 days in preventive

4. Section I of this act shall take effect immediately and the remainder of this


maintenance, and therefore, the present system would prevail. This only comes into effect when the facility, major generating or transmission facility, is out of use more than 90 days.

On the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the amendments?


minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, this amendment

addresses extraordinary outages so far as electric utilities are concerned. Common sense and common fairness tell us that electricity consumers, the customers, should not be required to pay for the mistakes of electric company executives. However, the reverse is true in the way the Public Utility Commission must administer the Public Utility Code. This amendment would provide customers with a much-needed protection from costly errors of electric company managers.

There have been numerous examples over the years of significant shutdowns of generating and transmission facilities that were caused by lzck of foresight and incompetence on the part of electric companies' management. While TMI is the most spectacular example of this problem, it is far from being the only example. Currently the city of Pittsburgh and the Consumer Advocate's Office are attempting to get the PUC to reimburse customers of Duquesne Light Company a total of some $18 million. This overcharge resulted from Duquesne's inadequate management of its Beaver Valley generating station, which resulted in a prolonged and costly shutdown.

In the event of a shutdown lasting more than 90 days, this amendment directs the PUC to aut&natically remove the facility from the rate base. The customers will not be paying for an unused facility and also paying for the cost of replacement power. The amendment further provides that the electric company can appeal this automatic action by the PUC. The appeal must take the form of a hearing in which the electric coppany will have the right t o rebut the presumption that the shutdown occurred because of poor management.

Mr. Speaker, it should be noted that this rebuttable presumption concept will for the first time grant the Public

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the 1 Anderson Armstrong Ar ty Belardi BeIranti Beloff Berson Bittle Blaum Barski Bowser Boyes Brand1 Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Crssar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donatucci Darr

YEAS-191

Fee Fleck Foster. W. W . Faster. Jr., A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Cannon Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieca Gruitza Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgos Hutchinson, A. lrvis ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Kolter Kowalyshyn Kukovich Lashinger Laughlin Lehr Lescovitz Letterman

Livengood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclnt~re McMdnagle McVerry Mackawski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmian Merry Michlovic Micorrie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasz Oliver Pendlelon Perzel Peterson Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pills Pott Pratt Pucciarelli Punt Rappapon Rasca Reber Richardson

Rybak Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitr Stairs Steighner Stevens Srevan Stuban Swvim Sweet Swift Taddanio Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams, I. D Wilson Wogan Worniak Wright, D. R. Wripht, J. L. Wright, R. C. Zwikl

902 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE APRIL 19.

Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Levi Rieger Levin Rlttcr . Ryan . Lewis Rocks Sprakci

NAYS-I

Vroon

N O T VOTING-3

Alden Kanuck William,, H.

EXCUSED-5

Barber Fraziei Miscrvich No)e Fischer



amended? Mr. L L O Y D offered the following amendments No.

A7334:

Amend Title, page I , line 2, by inserting the increased use o i coal by elei

after "for" :tric utilities, for

Amend Bill, page I , lines 7 through I I , by striking out a11 of . .. :sand insertine sata ilnc u

Section I . Title 66, act o f November 25, 1970 (P.1..707, No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Srau~tcs , is amended by adding asection to read:

ction o f electric ernrratiqg units fueled by

lnly upon the application of a public ~" ., .. .

I by the commission, ! vcg111 rne construction o f an I or natural gas.

mission.-Every application shall be . . . . .. .



ing

O n the question, Will the House agree to the amendments?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. T h e Chair recognizes the gentleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. LLOYD. Thank you. Mr. Speaker, very briefly, this is a n amendment which

addresses a problem which we have discussed earlier today dealing with power plants which burn oil o r natural gas. Now, earlier today we look care o f existing power plants. What this amendment-does is t o say that a n electric company cannot build a new power plant which would burn oil o r natural gas unless it can show that burning a coal o r coal derivative would be more costly to ratepayers a n d would violate environmental laws.

Under the Federal Fuel Use Act, utility companies are not allowed t o build power plants o f larger capacity than about 27 megawatts. S o what we are talking about here are small combustion turbines, peaking units, which operate a t the time of maximum demand. This is one o f the largest potential markets for synthetic fuels. And in answer t o Mr. Davies' question, which he may ask, adoption of this amendment would not in any way preclude building combustion turbines o r other kinds of peaking units which would burn other kinds of synthetic Fuel. S o I urge adoption of the amendment.

O n the question recurring, he,form and / Will the House agree t o the amendments?


YEAS-192

Anderson Fargo Lloyd Salvatore Armstrong Fee Lucyk Saurman Arty I'Icck Mrc'latrhr qerlfini

~

Fuitcr, W . W . Mclntyre F s c r I A. McMonagle Freind McVerry

"..*..... Seventy Showers Shuonik

Ritrle I Hlaum Gallagher Madigan Gallen Maialc " Gamble M a n d ~ r ~ n n Cmlth c I Ciannon Manmiller Geist Marmcon George Merry tiladeck Michlaric Grabowski Mico~riu

- ~ . ~ ~ ........ Sirianni

" ......., &. .{. Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs

Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper

Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell

Sweet Swift Taddania Taylor. E. 7 . , -~ -~

Cochran Hasay Olasz Taylor, F. E. Hayes Oliver Telek

rille 66 are Heiber Pendleton Tigue Hoeffel Perzel ~ ~ ~ l l ~

Cornull Coslett

Honaman Horgos Hutchinson,

Peterson Perrarea Petrone

Van Harne V r m n Wachob

Corell Cunningham DrMcdio DrVerler l)c\leere Daiheler Uavler Dawids

Donarucci Dorr Duiiy Durham Emerson Evans

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 903

O n the question recurring, Will the House agree to the bill on third consideralion as

amended? Mr. L L O Y D offered the followins amendments No.

A7335:

Amend Tirle, page I , line 2, by inserting after "for" the increased use o f coal by clcctric utilities, for

Amend Bill, page I, lines 7 through I I , by striking out ail of said lines and inserting

Section I. Title 66. act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707, No.230). known as thc Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read: 5 514. Construction o f electric generating unitc fueled by

nuclear energy. (a) General rule.-Only upon the application o f a public

utility and the approval o f the application by the commission, shall i t be lawful for the utility to begin the construction of an electric generating unit fuelcd by nuclear energy.

(b) Review by commission.-Every application shall be made to the commission in writing and shall be in the form and contain the information the commission requires by its regulations. The commission shall approve an application iT, after reasonable notice and hearing, i t determines:

(1) that there are no rcasonably available sites on which a unit o r units of comparable capacity fueled by coal; a synthetic derived in whole o r in part from coal; or a mixture o f two o r more fuels, at least one of which is coal o r is derived from coal could be operated in complia~lcc with applicable environmental laws and regulations; o r

( 2 ) that there is a strong probability that construction and subsequent operation o f i unit or units of comparable capacity fueled by coal; a synthetic derived in whole or in part from coal; or a mixture of two o r morc fuels, at least one o f which is coal or is derived from coal would be more costly to ratepayers than would construction and subsequent operation of the unit proposed by the utility. (c) Environmental questions.-The commi~sion may certify

to the Department of Environmental Resources any question regarding the applicability of environmental laws and regulations, when any such question arises i n a proceeding under this

Irvis Phillips Wamhach ltkin I ' I C C O ~ ~ Wargo Jackson Pieihk) War? Johnron Pislella Wenger Kennedy Pltts Wcilon Klinpaman Pot1 Wigpins Kolrci l'ratl \\ illian~<, I . D. Kowalyrhyn Pucciarelli \ViI\on Kuhovich 1'~cnt \Ingar) I.aihinger Kappapurl Wnjniak laughlin Rarco a r l g h r , D. K . 1.chr Rebci Wrighl, I . I I.escoiit/ Kichardion \I r ight , K . C. Lstternlan Ricyrr Lbiikl Lei i Rillcr levin Rock, Rlan,

Rybah Sprahrr L.CWIS liiengoad

NAYS-O

N O T VOTING-1

Kariuck Williams, H. EXCUSED-5

Barber Frarier hliscrv~ch No)e Fischer

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, a n d the amendments were agreed t o .

less expensive t o ratepayers than a coal-fired plant o r unless the coal-fired plant could no t operate in compliance with environmental laws.

Mr. Speaker, 1 believe that when t h e costs are roughly equivalent, in a coal-producing State with double-digit unem- ployment, we ought t o be favoring coal a n d we ought t o be bullding coal-fired power plants. So, M r . Speaker, I urge adoption of thc.amendment.

scction, and may incorporate the department's findings in its decision

(d) Time limit on commission review.-If the commission fails to approve or disapprove an application within six months after the date on which the application is filed, it shall be lawful for the affectcd utility to construct the proposed electric generating unit as though the commission had approved the application.

Section 2. The definitions of "landlord ratepayer," "residential building" and "tenant" in section 1521 o f Title 66 are amended and a definition is added to read:

Amend S c c 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and inserting


ing 4

O n the question, Will the House agree t o the amendments?

T h e SPEAKER pro tempore. T h e Chair recognizes the gen- tlcman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd.

Mr. LLOYD. Mr. Speaker, very briefly, this amendment deals with new nuclear power plants, a n d what it does is t o create a presumption fo r coal. W h a t this amendment would d o is to say that a utility company could not build a new nuclear power plant unless that nuclear power plant would b e

O n the question recurring, Will the House agree to the amendments?


YEAS-191

Anderson Armstrong Arty Helardi Helfanri Brloii Brrhun Bittle Blaum Borski Bomser Iloyer Brandl Brwn Burd Burns (altagirune Cappabianca Camley Cessar Cimini &era Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colalella Cole Cordisco

Fargo Fee Fleck Foster, W . W. Foster, Jr.. A. Freind Fryer Gallagher (iallen Gamble (;annon Gciit George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield <ireenwood Cirieco Gruir~a (iruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman

Livengoad Lloyd Lucyk McClalchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozzie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowrry Mrkonic Mullen durphy Nahill O'nonnell Olasz Oliver Pendleton I'enel

Ryhak Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sierninski Sirianni Smith. B. Smith. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer spxtz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewan Stuban Swaim Sweet Swih Taddonia Taylor, E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello


Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeesp Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Danatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Horgos Peterson Hutchinson, A . Petrarca Irvis Petrane ltkin Phillips Jackson Piccola Johnson Pievsky Kennedy Piitella Klingaman Pitti Kolter Pott Kowalyshyn Piatt Kukovich Pucciarelli Lashinger Punt Laughlin Rappaport Lehr Raico Lescovitr Rcber Letterman Richardson Levi Rirger Lcvin Ritter Lewis Rocks

Van Harne Vroon U'achob Wambach Wargo Wars Wengei Weston Wiggins Wilson Wogan Worniak Wright, D. R . Wright. 1. L. Wright, K. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-4

Alden Kanuck Williams. H. Williams, J . D

EXCUSED-5




amended? Mr. LLOYD offered the following amendments No.

A7336:

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by striking out "and" where it appears the second time

Amend Title, page I , line 4, by removing the period after "service" and inserting

and the increased use of coal by electric utilities. , Amend Bill, page 1, lines 7 through I I , by striking out all of

said lines and inserting Section 1. Title 66. act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read:

~p

T I I ~ .onltnt,rldn sl~all report lo the Houbc ot Represenlaiives and -- tlic >enate an! cnange, u h~sh u,ould make ~.tm\ersion signill- . ~ n t l ! Inure ar I t , \ le~,ible than indtcated by rhe invest~gatton --

Section 2. The definitions of "landlord ratevaver." "residential building" and "tenant" in section 1521 of Titie 66 are amended and the section is amended by adding a definition to read:



ing 4



Mr. LLOYD. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendment deals with the damaged reactor at Three

Mile Island. Up until the present time, there have been only two options seriously considered. One is to return that unit to service after substantial expense and repair as a nuclear unit. The other option which has been actively considered is to scrap the plant entirely. Now, Mr. Speaker, the first alternative, restoring it to service as a nuclear power plant, I believe is going to be far too costly to ratepayers and it certainly is going to be vigorously opposed by the people who live in the Three Mile Island area, and I would predict that there is virtually no chance that that is ever going to be done.

The second option, scrapping the plant, is bad for those of us who represent areas within the GPU service territory. because we have got to find some new power sources. That means we either have to pay to buy that power from somebody else or we have to build a brand new power plant, start from scratch.

Mr. Speaker, what this amendment does is to direct the Public Utility Commission to look at a third option. It does not mandate conversion, but it mandates the study of conversion of unit No. 2 to coal. Now, Mr. Speaker, this has been studied as far as the mechanical aspects of it are, and there is about a 3-inch-thick study, which I have on my desk, done by Gilbert Associates for GPU. Gilbert Associates says that this can be done from a mechanical point of view without hinder- ing the cleanup and without in any way dealing with the question of what ought or ought not happen to unit No. 1.

Now, what my amendment seeks to do is to ask and get answers to the questions which the Gilbert Associates study did not address, and that is, what is the impact on ratepayers from these three alternatives? My rates have gone up more than two-thirds since the accident. In the Met Ed (Metropoli- tan Edison) service territory, the rates have gone up by even more. I think that it is time we ask ourselves the question, where do we want to be 5 or 6 years from now, and maybe, maybe, one of the solutions to the problem is to fix that plant u? so that it can operate as a coal-fired plant. Another point which should be borne in mind is the fact that the Gilbert Associates study says that if this plant were converted, its capacity could be increased by almost 75 percent, and.were


that t o happen, we actually might b e getting a very good T h e question was determined in the affirmative, a n d the

bargain, because we a r e getting almost two new power plants 1 amendments wereagreed to . for the price of one.

M r . Speaker, I think we ought t o have the Public Utility Commission look a t this, a n d we ought t o get some answers, a n d I urge adopt ion of the amendment .



YEAS-188


amended? Mr. KUKOVICH offered the following amendments No.

A7332:

Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "for"

I the base rate, for Amend Bill, page 1, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I. Section 102 of Title 66. act of November 25, 1970

Bowsei Boyes Brandt Brawn Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civeia Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Caslett Cawell Cunningham DeMedia DeVerrer DeWeese Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dumbrowski Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans Fargo Fee

Andcrian Fleck Luc! k Salvatore Armstrang Foster, W. W. McClatchy Saurman Arty Foster, Jr.. A . Mclntyre Seventy Belardi Frrind McMunagle Shoi\er, Belfanti Fryer McVrrry Shupnik Beloff Gallagher Mackourki Sierniniki Berson tiallen Madigan Sirianni Bittle Gamble Mvlaiale Smith, B. Blaum Cannon Manderino Smith, E. H.

Ceist Manmlller George Marmion tiladeck Merry Grabowski Michiovic Gray Micozrie Greenfield Miller Greenwood Moehlmann Grieco Morris Gruirra Mowers Gruppo Mrkonic Hagarty Mullcn Haluska Murphy Harper Nahill Hasay O'Donnell Hayes Olasr Heiser Oliver Hoeffel Pendleton Honaman Perrel Horgos Peterson Hutchinson, A. Petrarca lrvis Perrone ltkin Phillips Jackson Piccola Johnson Pievsky Kenneuy Pistella Klingaman Pitts Kolter Port Kowalyshyn Pratt Kukovich Pucciarclli Laihinger Punt Laughlin Kappaport L.ehr Rasco Lescovitr Reber Letterman Richardson Leri Rieger Levin Ritter Lewis Kocks Livengoad Rybak Lloyd

NAYS-1

(P.L.707, No.230). known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a definition t o read: 5 102. Definitions.

Subject to additional definitions contained in subsequent provisions of this part which are applicable to specific provisions of this part, the following words and phrases when used in this part shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:

* * *

Daikeler N O T VOTING-6

Alden Borrki

Danatufci Serafini Kanuck

EXCUSED-5

Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitr Stairr Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Sweet Swil'l Taddonio Taylor. E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trella Van Horne Vraon Wachob Wambach Wargo Wasr Wenger Wrrton Wiggins Williams. H. Williams, J. I). Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright. D. R. Wright, J. L . Wright, R . C. Zwikl

Ryan. Speaker

Swaim


"Rate base." The value of the whole o r any part of the property of a public utility which is used and useful in the public service. - * * *

Section 2. Sections 1307(a) and 131 I of Title 66 are amended to read: 5 1307. Sliding scale of rates; adjustments.

(a) General rule.-Any public utility, except a common carrier, may establish a sliding scale of rates or such other method for the automatic adjustment of the rates of the public utility as shall provide a just and reasonable return on the [fair value of the property used and useful in the public service,] rate base of such public utility, to be determined upon such equitable o r reasonable basis as shall provide such fair return. A tariff showing the scale of rates under such arrangement shall first be filed with the commission, and such tariff, and each rate set out therein, approved by it. The commission may revoke its approval a t any time and fix other rates for any such public utility if, after notice and hearing, the commission finds the existing rates unjust o r unreasonable.

* * * 8 1311. Valuation o f property o f and return on the property o f

a public utility. (a) Valuation generally.-The commission may, after rea-

sonable notice and hearing, ascertain and fix the [fair] value o f the whole o r any part o f the property of any public utility, insofar as the same is material to the exercise of the jurisdiction of the commission, and may make revaluations from time to time [and ascertain the fair value] & the value of the rate base of a public utility on account of all new construction, extensions, [and] additions and retirements to the property of any public utility.

(b) Method of valuation.-In determining the value of the rdte h+\c t ) i a p ~ h l i ~ uliln), ihr. iomnl~scion shall a~cer ta in and t~\!hu ,)rig~naj-<t~st o i t h e propert) of the public util~ly when first j c $ ro t h ~ . pub112 >crs i ie less !hc applicable accrued deprccia- t E

(c) Segregation o f property.-When any public utility fur- nishes more than one of the different types of utility service, the commission shall segregate the property used and useful in furnishing each type of such service, and shall not consider the property of such public utility a s a unit in determining the value of the [property] rate base of such public utility for the purpose of fixing rates.

(d) Common carriers.-In fixing any rate of a public utility eneaeed exclusivelv as a common carrier bv motor vehicle, the

I - - commission may, in lieu of other standard; established bylaw,


fix the fair return by relating the fair and reasonable operating around. For that reason and only for that reason I would say expenses, depreciation, taxeb and other costs of furnishing serxjice i t is not necessarv to oass this. ~ h v d o we not ~ i v e these little , . - ~ ~ ~~~

to operating revenues. utility companies a break? Amend Scc. I, page I, line 7 , by striking out " I " and insert-

in" The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen- ...a

3 tleman from Somerset, Mr. Lloyd. Amend Sec. I , page I, lines 8 throuzh 10, hv strikinr out the Mr. LLOYD. Thank vou. Mr. Sneaker,

comma after "66" iniine 8, all of line 9-and "~ennrylvai ia C o n solidated Statutes," in line 10

Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and insert- ;""

cases. 1 would appreciate an affirmative vote, Mr. Speaker. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen-

tleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon. Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, there is not anything new in

this at all. The practice is going on now all the time. All of the big utilities are being evaluated this way. The PUC has the full option t o use that or fair value, whichever way they want to figure it. I think it is a lot more flexible the way it is.

But what is more important than anything else, Mr. Speaker, is this would hurt the kind oi' people you would not want to hurt. There are some small utility companies that just d o not have that original cost. ~ n h what in the wide world are you going t o d o for them? They have ro be able ro substanti- ate what did that unit cost them in the first place, and honestly, there are a number of little water companies all over the Commonwealth that just d o not have that kind of record

if in fact there are s&,e little i t i l i ty companies which do not have those records, they have two options. One, we can in the Senate put in an amendment which will except them from ...-

4 Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6 , by striking out "3" and insert-

ing 5


The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recogllizes the gen.

tlemah from Westmoreland, Mr. Kukovich. M ~ . KUKOVICH. M ~ . speaker, this amendment changes

the f a i r value method of ar r iv ing at the cost of a utility,s phys. ical plant to an original cost the importance of this is that the fair value method was one of theoretical p r o jections to try to ar r ive at what the inflationary costs were doing t o the facilities of the company. the past method had often been abused and ratepayers were often overcharged. The o~iginal cost is a much simplified version and one that would make rate cases be much quicker, much simpler, more readily reviewed and monitored.

NOW, about 2 years ago the penrlsylvania supreme court held that the PUC had the discretion to use the cost method when arriving at the decision in rate base cases. since that time and starting over a year ago, they have been t r y i n g t o use that method on almost every case that has come before them. I think this has heen an improvement for ihc ratepayers in Pennsylvania.

So basically what this amendment does is c l a r i f y ,he laus and insure that at some future date the PUC not back t o a method that almost all the experts have found to be anachronistic and outmoded. A majority of the states ha\;? changed their laws to ihe original cost basis, and the Supreme

Court, not only of this State but o f the United States, has held this t o be a'valid method of reaching a decision in rate base


the original cost, or two, we can pro forma those figures; we can reach the best estimates, and that will pass as original cost.

This amendment is an important amendment, especially for those of you ~ l h o d o not want CWlP in the Philadelphia Elec- tric rate case, because if 1 were the Public Utility Commission and were determined not to grant CWLP but wanted t o give

that company some more money, the easiest way to d o that is to play around with this concept o f fair value, which allows YOU to disguise the rate o f return. In most cases the companies are willing to stipulate up front that the case will be tried on an original cost basis, and we ought to make that the law so that we d o not run the risk that at some point in the f ~ t u r e the Public Utility Commission in its creative way will come up with some way to get around that. 1 urge adoption of the amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gen-

tleman, Mr. Vroon, for the second time. Mr. VROON. I would agree with the speaker if it were not

for the fact that this is absolutely absurd. It is six of one and half a dozen of ihe other. Either you grant a large return on a small base or a small return on a large base. The bottom line 01 what you grant to the utilities as a return on their invested capital is dollars and cents that are required to meet their financial goals, and that is what it is going to be whether it is original c o ~ t or fair value or whatever you want to call it. There is no potential savings whatsoever, not one cent for any ratepayer in this Commonwealth, with the adoption of this method. And since we already have the option and they are using i t righi now, what is the point o f it?

the question recurring, will the House agree to the amendments?

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beluff Bcrson Bittle Blaurn Borski Bowier Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley

Evanr Fargo Fee Fleck Foster, W. W. Foster, Jr.. A. Frsind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannan Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood

Lewts Livengoad I.loyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackowski Maiale Manderino Manmiller Merry Michlovic Mieorzie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminrki Sirianni Smith. B. Smith. E. H . Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spirz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewan Stuban

and they could not enter into long-term contracts, and it would be iniproper for us to insist that they d o so, and that is just very funny, because just last week Penelec (Pennsylvania Electric) asked for bids on increments of 200,000, 400,000, and 800,000 tons of coal. There was one let just last week for 200,000 tons of coal. Mr. Speaker, that little power plant where I live will use more than 800 million dollars' worth of coal next year at the rate that they have been buying coal.

We do not ask that we do anything improper; we just ask that when the public utility came forth and said, oh, there is nothing wrong, and we are not getting any complaints, we found that with this kind of a system, if they continue t o use it, they will do two things: they will force the small businessman, the small producer, out of business; secondly, if.they

908 LEGISLATIVE

Civera Hagarty Mullen Sweet Clark Haluska Murphy Swift Clymer Harper Nahill Taddonio Cachran Hasay O'Donnell Taylor, E. 7.. Cohen Hayes Olasr Taylor, F. E. Colafella Heiser Oliver Telek Cole Hoeffel Pendleton Tigue Cordiseo Honaman Perrel Trello Cornell Horgas Peterson Van Harne Coslelr Hutchinson, A. Petrarca Vroon Cowell lrvis Petrone Wachob Cunningham ltkin Phillips Wambach DeMedio Jackson Piccala Wargo DeVerter Johnson Pievsky Wars DeWeese Kennedy Pistella Wenger Daikeler Klingaman Pitts Weston Davies Kolter Pott Wiggins Dawida Kowalyshyn Pratt Wilson Deal Kukavich Pucciarelli Wagan Dietz Lashinger Punt Wazniak Dininni Laughlin Rappa~rt Wright, D. R. Dombrawski Lehr Rasfo Wrighl, J . L. Donatucci Lescovitz Reber Wright, R. C. Dorr Letterman Richardson Zwikl Duffy Levi Rieger Durham Levin Ritter Ryan. Emerson Lewis Rocks Speaker

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-5

Alden Kanuck Williams, H. Williams. J . D. Foste~, W . W.

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazier Miscevich Naye Fischer



amended? Mr. GEORGE offered the following amendments No.

A6265:

Amend Title, page I, line 2, by inserting after "Statutes," requiring competitive bidding for purchase of coal by contract and

Amend Bill, page I , by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I . Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 ( P . L . ~ o ~ ,

No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read: jI4. Competitive bidding for the purchase Of by

contracts


(d) Violations.-The commission may, upon its own initiat- ive or upon an allegation by any person, investigate a claimed violation of this section, and, in doing so, shall not disclose the identity of any person making such allegation, without the consent of such person.

Amend Sec. 1, page I , line 7, by striking out " I " and inserting

2 Amend Sec. 1, page 1, lines 8 through 10, by striking out the




ing 4

Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6, by striking out "60" and inserting

90


The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Clearfield, Mr. George.

Mr. GEORGE. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this amendment that I propose to you was

first proposed to you as legislation in a bill that 113 of you saw fit to sign because you felt as I did that something must be done in curtailing rates. What this amendment does is it simply insists that a utility that is purchasing over 50,000 tons of coal in any given month should be open to an investigation if there is a charge and that the public utilities should be able to look into the matter to find out if in fact the utilities are buying their commodity or that fossil fuel at the best possible price.

Now, as we said some minutes ago when we were talking about the fuel adjustment, there was more than $19 million of an overcharge 5 years ago. The public utility said that this was not true, but the investigation showed that it was. At that time, Mr. Speaker, in my own area it was found that the

was purchasing coal and that [he contractor who was furnishing the coal said that he could not any longer furnish that coal. and the very next day a new contract was geared UP. and it was $9.60 a ton more for the same coal from the same place and the same job site. Now, at that time the utilities insisted, Mr. Speaker, that no longer would it be appropriate,


allow this kind of incrementation into the 800,000 tons, they will only allow the huge conglomerates to be able to bid, and they will eventually and very probably he bringing coal from outside of Pennsylvania to burn in Pennsylvania.

I know some will stand and say, oh, you know the public utilities say we are doing this now. Well, the public utilities said to us, you know, this would cost us a lot of money. The truth of the matter is, Mr. Speaker, the public utilities are not doing their job. If you would believe that, you will vote with me. If that were not true what I am telling you, 1 would not be standing here to encourage you to vote. Look at those people who are complaining to you about utility rates. The cost of the power produced is predetermined on the cost of what they do. The utilities are the only corporations in Pennsylvania that d o not have to deal with the open competitive market.

I suggest, Mr. Speaker, that if you want business to stay good, if you want to control the rates, then I insist that we just pass this amendment.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Lehigh, Mr. Snyder.

Mr. SNYDER. Will the sponsor of the amendment please subject himself to interrogation?

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman indicates that he will. The gentleman, Mr. Snyder, may proceed.

Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Speaker, 1 understand the intention of your amendment and the practices you are trying to address, but how does your amendment deal with the quality of coal? You are basically saying that coal shall now he purchased on the basis of price only. It does not address the need for buying different grades of quality of coal that are necessary to be efficient for our utility plants, and in essence, this amendment could possibly drive up the cost of our fuel rather than do what you have intended to do.

Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, if you would read the amendment rather than just challenge it, down in the second paragraph from the bottom it says, "Pollution standards.-This section shall not be construed as to require the purchase of coal which is of a lower grade or quality than that which is required by the utility to meet emission or air quality standards ...."

And furthermore, Mr. Speaker, i f you will allow me another moment, just a half an hour ago we addressed the area in Mr. Vroon's amendment about buying quality coal. All this will insist upon is that if someone should take issue that they are being driven out of business and they no longer are given the right to bid on a coal contract, they will get that right by just advising the PUC. That is all it simply does.

Mr. SNYDER. 1 would like to speak on the amendment. The SPEAKER pro tempore. The gentleman is in order and

may proceed. Mr. SNYDER. Mr. Speaker, the amendment does address

pollution standards, but it does not deal with quality as far as the coal itself being burned. You can purchase low-quality coal that still meets our pollution standards. It also does not address the need to purchase low-sulphur coal for mixing into the coal-fired units.

I also think that as it is mentioning about monopolies that this is trying to prevent, it could in essence create monopolies by the fact that only the larger companies can afford to under- bid the smaller companies and in a matter of 1 or 2 years drive the smaller companies out of business. This is especially true with the oil companies which can surely afford the tax write- offs for that period. I think if we have a coal caucus in this assembly and we are interested in helping the small businessman and we are interested in trying to make sure that the consumer's energy costs are low, that we have to take that into consideration.

I ask for opposition to this amendment because of the way it is written.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman, Mr. George, for the second time.

Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, the gentleman should have no fear if he would read the amendment, because that is exactly what the amendment insists on - jus t asking the PUC to look into a matter whenever there has been a grievance or supposedly there is a grievance. If he reads the amendment, it insists that if I should be a coal operator and 1 submitted a bid for coal to furnish 100,000 tons of coal and 1 would have been turned down and 1 would have inquired why I was turned down and I would have been told because my coal did not come up to the specific B.t.u.'s, then 1 would have something to complain about, because 1 would probably have the knowledge that my coal would he better in quality and would perform better and was of a cheaper price.

Those who take issue with this amendment really do not want to save the ratepayers money. If that gentleman who spoke a moment ago, Mr. Speaker, is really, really interested in the small coal operator, then he will get up and speak for this amendment. Thank you.

The SPEAKER pro tempore. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chester, Mr. Vroon.

Mr. VROON. Mr..Speaker, this is the subject of a bill which we took up in the Conservative Affairs-Consumer Affairs Committee-Freudian slip-some time ago, and we went into this thing very thoroughly, and we took testimony from witnesses from the PUC, from the coal companies and from the utility companies, from everybody involved, and we were told by the Public Utility Commission that all five commissioners oppose this hill. Now, this is what we are fooling around with here.

You can vote whichever way you want on it, but we have a very excellent system on the procurement of coal today. Nobody is being slighted; nobody is being gypped. In this particular instance there is an attempt here to accommodate certain elements in the coal industry. I think it is just something that we do not need. I ask you to vote against it.



YEAS-177

Anderson Evans Levi Ritter Armstrang Fargo Levin Rocks Arty Fee Livengood Rybak Belardi Fleck Lloyd Salvatore


Belfanti Foster, W. W. Lucyk Seraiini I the metering of electricity supplied to volunteer fire Beloff Freind McClatchy Seventy comoanies. for Berson Bittle Blaum Bowser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini

Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitra

Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Merry Michlovic Micauie Miller Moehlmann Morris

Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith, E. H. Smith, L. E. Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban

Civera Gruppo Mawery Swift Clark Hagarty Mrkonic Taddonio Clymer Haluska Mullen Taylor, E. 2. Cochran Harper Murphy Taylor, F. E. Cohen Hasay Nahill Telek Colafelb Hayes O'Donnell Tigue Cole Hoeffel Olasz Trello Cordisco Honaman Oliver Van Horne Cornell Hargas Pendletan Wachob Cosletr Hutchinsan, A. Peterson Wambach Cowell lrvis Petrarca Wareo

Amend Bill, page I , b y inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I . Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.230), known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended bv addine a section to read:

ing 9 L

Amend Sec. I , page 1, lines 8 through 10, by striking out the comma after "66" in line 8, all of line 9 and "Pennsylvania Con- solidated Statutes," in line 10

Amend Sic. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and insen- ing


ing 4

Dietz ~ukovich Punt Wogan Dininni Lashinger Rappapon Wazniak Dombrowski Laughlin Rasco Wright. D. R Dorr Lehr Reber Wright, J. L.

" Cunningham ltkin Petlone Waas DeMedio Jackson Phillips Wenger DeVener Johnson Piccola Weston DeWeese Kennedy Pieusky Wiggins Davies Klingaman Pistella Williams, H. Dawida Kolter Pratt Williams. J. D. Deal Kowalvshyn Pucciarelli Wilson

Duffy Lescovilz Richardson Wright, R. C, Durham Letterman Rieger Zwikl Emerson

O n the question, Will t h e House agree t o t h e amendments?

T h e SPEAKER. T h e Chair recognizes the gentleman f rom Northumberland, M r . Phillips.

Mr. P H I L L I P S . M r . S ~ e a k e r . this amendment deals with

Daikeler Foster, Jr., A. Heiser

Alden Borski Donatucci

Barber Fiseher

Marmion Saurman Sweet Perzel Snyder Vroon POtt

N O T VOTING-8

Kanuck Swaim Lewis Pitts Ryan,

Speaker EXCUSED-5

Frazier Miscevich Noye

T h e question was determined in t h e affirmative, a n d the amendments were agreed to .

THE SPEAKER (MATTHEW J. RYAN) 1N THE CHAIR


O n t h e auest ion recurrine. I . ~ - . Will t h e H o u s e agree t o t h e bill o n third consideration a s

amended? M r . P H I L L I P S offered t h e following amendments No.

A7394:

Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "for"

volunteer fire companies a n d t h e ra te they a re paying for electricity. W h a t this simply does is ask that t h e volunteer fire companies shall measure t h e consumption o f electricity sup-

~ ~

plied thereto by t h e same method that electricity t o residential customers is measured. Basically, wha t we a re saying is that we want them t o be charged t h e kilowatt ra te instead o f the demand kilowatt rate. 1 think this would b e fair, because of ten the demand is set by maybe t h e use o f a siren once o r twice a month , a n d I believe this would be a fairer method, a n d 1 ask f o r your support .

O n the question recurring, Will t h e H o u s e agree t o t h e amendments?


YEAS-189

Anderson Fee Livengoad Saurman Armstrone Fleck Lloyd Serafini Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Bersan Bitrle Blaum Bowser Bayes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer

Foster, W. Faster, Jr.. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitza Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper

W. ~ u c i k A. McClatchy

Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merrv ~ichiavic Micouie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill

Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer S ~ i t r ~ia i rs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. 2. Taylor. F. E.


Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cawell Cunningham DeMedia DeVener DeWeese Daikeler Davier Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dambrowski Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans Fargo

Hasay O'Donnell Hayes Olasz Heiser Oliver Hoeffel Pendletan Honarnan Perrel Horgos Peterson Hutchinran, A. Petrarca lrvis Petrone ltkin Phillips Jackson Piccola Johnson Pievsky Kanuck Pistella Kennedy Patt Klingaman Pratt Kolter Pucciarelli Kowalyshyn Punt Kukovich Rappaport Lashinger Rasco Laughlin Reber Lehr Richardson Lescovirz Rieger Leiterman Ritter Levi Rocks Levin Rybak Lewis Salvatore

NAYS-0

N O T VOTING-6

Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams, H. Williams. J . D Wilson Wogan Worniak

~~ u~~ , Wright, J. L. Wright, R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker

Alden Donatucci Pitts Swaim Borski Mackowski

EXCUSED-5


T h e question was determined in t h e affirmative, a n d t h e amendments were agreed to.

O n t h e question recurring, Will t h e H o u s e agree t o t h e hill o n th i rd consideration a s

amended? M r . W A C H O B offered t h e following amendments No.

A7391:

Amend Title, page I , line 3, by striking out "and" where it appears the last time

Amend Title, page 1, line 4, by removing the period after "service" and inserting

and for notices of estimates of service charges. Amend Bill, page I , by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I . Title 66, act of November 25, 1970 (P.L.707,

No.2301, known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended bv a d d i n ~ a section to read:

ing 2.

Amend Sec. I , page I , line 8, by removing the comma after '.&&" ""

Amend Sec. I . page I . I~ne \ 9 and 10, b) striking out all u i l ~ n e 9 and "Penn.yl\ania ('on\ollJaied Siatutc\." 111 l ~ n c 10

Amend Sec . 2, page 2 , l ~ n e 25. by , t r i k i ~ ~ g o u t "2." and insert-

ing 3.

Amend Sec. 3, page 15, line 6, by striking out "3." and inserting

4.

O n t h e question, Will t h e House agree t o the amendments?

T h e S P E A K E R . T h e Chair recognizes t h e gentleman f rom Elk, M r . Wachob.

Mr . W A C H O B . T h a n k you, Mr. Speaker . Briefly, wha t this amendment does is requires the given

utility in question t o give t h e cost o f any new connection or any new service orally t o t h e prospective customer a n d in writing if t h e additional cost is over $25. There have been numerous occasions in m y a rea where constituents have com- plained t o m e that had they known t h e cost o f , in particular, telephone connections, tha t if they h a d known t h e cost o f t h e new service that they were getting ahead o f t ime, they would have curtailed some o f t h e types o f services tha t they had wanted in their businesses o r in their homes. 1 urge a n affirmative vote f o r t h e amendment , M r . Speaker. T h a n k you.

O n the question recurring, Will t h e House agree t o t h e amendmer


YEAS-191

Anderson Fargo Livengood Armstrong Fee Lloyd Arty Fleck Lusyk Belardi FoLer, W. W. McClatchy Belfanti Faster. J r . , A. Mclntyre Belaff Freind McMonagle Berson Fryer McVerry Bitlle Gallagher Mackawski Blaum Oallen Madigan Borski Gamble Maiale Bowser Cannon Manderino Boyes Geist Manmiller Brandt George Marmian Brawn Gladefk Merry Burd Grabowski Michlovic Burns Gray Micozrie Caltagirone Greenfield Miller Cappabianca Greenwood Moehlmann Cawley Grieco Morris Cessar Gruitza Mowery Cimini Gruppo Mrkonic Civera Hagarty Mullen Clark Haluska Murphy Clymer Harper Nahill Cochran Hasay O'Dannell Cohen Hayes Olasz Colafella Heirer Oliver Cole Hoeffel Pendleton Cordisca Honaman Perrel Cornell Horgos Peterson Coslett Hutchinson, A. Petrarca Cowell lrvis Petrane Cunningham ltkin Phillips DeMedio Jackson Piccola DeVerter Johnson Pievsky DeWeese Kanuck Pistella Daikeler Kennedy Pott Davies Klingaman Prall Dawida Kolter Pucciarelli Deal Kowalyshyn Punt Dietz Kukovich Rappapon Dininni Lashinger Rasco Dombrowski Laughlin Reber Donatucci Lehr Richardson Darr Lescovitr Rieger

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner StevenS Stew an Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. 2. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wach0b Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams. J. D. Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright. D. R. Wright, J. L. Wright, R. C. Zwikl

Amend Title, page I , line 3, by striking out "and" where it appears the second time


Amend Title, page 1, line 4, by removing the period after "service" and inserting

Duffy Letterman Ritter Durham Levi Rocks Ryan, Emerson Levin Rybak Speaker Evans

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-4

Alden Lewis Pills Williams. H .

EXCUSED-5




amended? Mr. DOMBROWSKI offered the following amendments

No. A7352:

and prohibiting discontinuance of certain public utility service during certain periods.

Amend Bill, page 2, by inserting between lines 24 and 25 Section 2. Section !SO3 of Title 66 is amended by adding a

subsection to read: S 1503. Discontinuance of service.

* * *



YEAS-189

Anderson Fargo Livengoad Rybak Armstrong Fee Lloyd Salvatore Arty Fleck Lucyk Saurman Belardi Foster, W. W. McClalchy Seventy Beifanti Foster, Jr.. A. Mclntyre Showers Beloff Freind McMonagle Shupnik Berson Fryer McVerry Sieminski Bittle Gallagher Mackowski Sirianni Blaum Gallen Madigan Smith. B. Borski Gamble Maiale Smith. E. H. Bowser Cannon Manderino Smith. L. E. Boyes Geist Manmiller Snyder

George Marmion Spencer Brown Gladeck Merry Spirr

i:::s Grabowski Michlovic Stairs Gray Micorrie Sttighncr

Callagirone Greenfield Miller Stevens ~appab ianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DcMedio DeVerter DcWeese Daikeler Davier Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dambrowski Donatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Evans

Greenwood Griem Gruitra Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgor Hutchinson. lrvis lrkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Kolter Kowalyshyn Kukovich Lashinger Laughlin Lehr Lescovitz Letterman Levi Levin Lewis

Maehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasz Oliver Pendleton Perzel Peterson

A. Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pilts POL1 Pratt Pucciarelli Punt Rappapon Rasca Reber Richardson Rieger Ritter Rocks

NAYS-0

~~~

Stewan Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vraon Wachob Wambach Wargo W a s Wenger Weston Wiggins Wilson Wogan Worniak Wright. D. R. Wright, J . L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Ryan. S ~ e a k e r

I - -

Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25, by striking out "2" and inserting NOT VOTING-6

On the auestion. Barber Frazier Miscevich Noyc I -.

. 3


4


Alden Kanuck Williams. H. Williams. J. D. Emerson Serafini

EXCUSED-5

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Erie, Mr. Dombrowski.

Mr. DOMBROWSKI. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This amendment would prohibit the discontinuance of

utility service for residential customers between the dates of December 1 and AprilrO. I ask for an affirmative vote.

The question. was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to.


amended? Mr. LETTERMAN offered the following amendments No.

A7390:


Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "for" the metering of electricity supplied to fire companies, for

Amend Bill, page 1, by inserting between lines 6 and 7 Section I . Title 66, act of November 25 , 1970 (P.L.707,

No.2301, known as the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, is amended by adding a section to read:

2 Amend Sec. 1, page I, lines 8 through 10, by striking out the


Amend Sec. 2, page 2, line 25 , by striking out "2" and insert-

>


4

On the question, Will the House agree t o the amendments?

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Centre, Mr. Letterman.

Mr. LETTERMAN. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, this is a very simple amendment. It is the same

a s Mr. Johnson's when he wanted to take the churches and put them at a residential rate. I would like to do the same thing for the fire companies. Fire companies are on a demand meter- They say that it is already done, Mr. Speaker; I can quit.

The SPEAKER. People have said that years ago. Mr. LETTERMAN. Would you wait just a minute? Mr. Speaker, may 1 explain something? The SPEAKER. The gentleman is in order. Mr. LETTERMAN. The only difference with mine is it

would take in paid fire companies also. Mr. Phillips, I understand, only did i t for volunteer. 1 would like to do it also for the paid fire companies, because it costs our municipalities a lot of money also. So 1 would like t o present my amendment.



YEAS-193

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson Biltle Blaum Borski Bqwser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone

Farga Fee Fleck Fost~r, W . W . Foster, Jr., A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield

Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McMona.de McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozzie Miller Moehlmann

Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith, E. H Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewan

Ca~pabianca Greenwood Cawley Grieco Ceiiar Gruitza Cimini Gruppo Civera Hagany Clark Haluska Cl ymer Harper Cnchran Hasav

- p~

Morris Stuban Mowery Swaim Mrkanic Sweet Mullen Swift Murphy Taddonio Nahill Taylor. E. Z. O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Olasz Telek

Cohen Hayes Oliver Tigue Colafella Heiser Pendleton Trello Cole Haeffel Perzel Van Horne Cordiica Honaman Peterson Vroon Coinell. Horgos Petrarca Wachob Coalerr Hutchinson, A. Petrone Wambach Cnwell lrvis Phillios Warno .~ ~~~

Cunnlngham ltkin Piccola was; DeMedio Jackson Pievsky Wenger DeVeitrr Johnson Pistella Weston DeWeese Kennedy Pitts Wiggins Daikeler Klingaman Pot1 Williams, H. Davits Kolter Pratt Williams, 1. D. Dauida Kowalvshyn Pucciarelli Wilson Deal diet^ Dininni Dombrowski Danarucci Uoir Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

~ u k o v i c h . Punt Wogan Lashinger Rappaport Wozniak Laughlin Rasca Wright. D. R Lehr Reber Wright, J. L. Lescovilz Richardson Wright, R. C. Letterman Rieger Zwikl Levi Ritter Levin Racks Ryan. Lewis Rybak Speaker Livengood Salvatore

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-2

Alden Kanuck EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazier Miscevich NO ye Fischer


On the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the bill on third consideration as

amended? Bill as amended was agreed to.

The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage.

The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas

and nays will now be taken.

YEAS-193

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson Biltle Blaum Borski Bowser Bayes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianea

Fargo Fee Fleck Faster, W . W. Foster. Jr . , A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannan Geist George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood

Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle MeVerry Mackawski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micarrie Miller Moehlmann Morris

Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitr Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban


Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisca Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerler DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donarucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Alden

Barber Fischer

Grieca Gruitza Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgos Hutchinson, lrvis ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Koiter Kowalyshyn Kukavich

Mowery Swaim Mrkonic Sweet Mullen Swift Murphy Taddonio Nahill Taylor, E. Z O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Olasr Telek Oliver Tigue Pendleton Trello Perzel Van Horne Peterqon Vroon Petrarca

A. Petrone Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pist ella Pills Port Pratt Pucciarelli Punt

Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams, H. Williams, J. D Wilson Woean "

Lashinger Rappaport Worniak Laughlin Rasca Wright, D. R . Lehr Reber Wright, J. L . Leacovilr Richardson Wright, R. C. Letterman Ricger Zwikl Levi Ritter Levin Rocks Ryan. Lewis Rybak Speaker Livengood Salvatore

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-2

Kanuck

EXCUSED-5

The majority required by the Constitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative.

Ordered, That the clerk present the same t o the Senate for concurrence.

BILLS ON THIRD CONSIDERATION

The House proceeded t o third consideration o f HB 1380, PN 1605, entitled:

An Act amending the "Utllity Service Tenants Rights Act," approved November 26, 1978 (P. L. 1255, No. 299). further providing for landlord ratepayers and tenants, and for notice prior to discontinuance of service.

On the question, Will the House agree t o the bill on third consideration? Mr. VROON offered the following amendments No.

A7046:

Amend Sec. 3, page 4, line 8, by striking out "Subsection" and inserting

Section 4 and subsection Amend Sec. 3, page 4, line 9, by inserting after "amended"

and a section is added Amend Sec. 3, page 4, by inserting between lines 9 and 10

Section 4. Identifying tenants. (a) At least 37 days before the date of discontinuance of

service, it shall be the duty of a public utility to request from the landlord ratepayer the names and addresses of the affected

-

tenants. Upon receiving la] this lawful request for the names and addresses of the affected tenants pursuant to this act, it shall be the duty of the landlord ratepayer to provide the utility with the names and addresses of every affected tenant-of any building or mobile home park for which the utility is proposing to discontinue service unless within seven days of receipt of the notice, the landlord ratepayer pays the amount due the utility or makes an arrangement with the utility to pay the balance.

(b) Such information shall be provided by the landlord ratenaver: . ~,

I ) within seven days of receipt of a request from a public utility for tenants names pursuant to subsection (a); or

((I)] (2) within seven days of receipt of the notice to the landlord ratepayer required by section 3; or

[(2)1 (1! within three days of any adjudication by a court having jurisdiction that the landlord ratepayer must provide the requested information if the landlord files a petition with the court within seven days of receipt of the notice to the landlbrd disputing the right of the utility to discontinue C P T \ , ~ P P . nr

(4)upon those terms as ordered by a court in an action brought by the utility under this act. (c) It shall be the duty of any public utility to pursue any

appropriate legal or equitable remedy it has, necessary to obtain from the landlord ratepayer, the names and addresses of all affected tenants of a building or mobile home park for which the utility is proposing discontinuance of service to such landlord ratepayer.

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 6), page 4, lines 29 and 30; page 5, line 1, by striking out "I sent by first class mail to each" in line 29 and all of line 30 on page 4 and "posted in common areas" in line I on page 5

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 6) , page 5, line 2, by inserting after "information:"

after "rights and inserting - the words and phrases 2 which appearing below all in capital letters shall be printed in 12-point boldface type with the first letter printed in upper case and the letters that follow in lower case and the words and phrases not all appearing in capital letters shall be printed in IO-point type with any letter in upper case to remain so and the rest in lower case.

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 6 ) , page 7, lines 12 through 30; page 8, lines I through IS, by striking out all of said lines on said naaes . - and inserting

IMPORTANT NOTICE TO TENANTS WARNING: YOUR

(Utility company shall insert

company name and type of service above) MAY BE SHUT OFF ON OR AFTER

BECAUSE YOUR LANDLORD HAS NOT PAID THE UTILITY BILL FOR YOUR BUILD- ING.

TOSTOP THE SHUT-OFF OF YOUR UTILITY SERVICE, YOU MUST DO ONE O F THE FOL- LOWING THINGS:


number or unit designation or any forwarding address provided to the utility by the tenant pursuant to section 8, and upon return of this form executed by the tenant, the utility shall refund to the tenant any amounts paid by the tenant for the month in which service is terminated.

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 8), page l l , lines 18 through 20, by striking out "1 sent by first class mail to" in line 18, all of line 19 and "posted in common areas" in line 20

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 81, page 11, line 21, by inserting after

OR 2 . You can get utility service billed in only your name if

your dwelling has its own meter. Or you can get your own service if a meter can be put in without major changes in pipes, wires and land. Please call the utility company if you want more information about getting utility service billed in your namP

5

. . -. . . - . - YOU HAVE OTHER IMPORTANT RIGHTS UNDER S T A T F 1 A W .

I "information:"

- - . - - - - . . . . . 1. You can use all or part of your rent money to pay this

month's utility bill. Whatever is left over you can pay to your landlord for rent. You will not owe your landlord any more money for this month's rent. If your landlord does not pay next month's utility bill, you can again use all or part of your rent money to p-aj~il.

UAlt. - Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 6). page 8, line 19, by striking out "[" Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 6), page 8, line 20, by inserting a bracket

before "(7)" Amend Sec. 3 (Sec.6), page 8, by inserting between lines 21 and

22

I >r.llr b) t ~ r r t i lu , , nidil t<.cpch aiiested tenant by name at his I ~ J I ! I . I L ~ . i~e l l~ t l g unlt, b) unit numbrr ur unit de~ignation, and ~'u\ts.I I I I <sntlttoll area,. \('henc\er the uuliry i\ unable to obtain !h=tncr knd ~ddrc,>r.. ol the aiiested tenants pursuant to >cirioll 4. tile ~loltee> \hall be cent h) first class mall addressed to - "rc.,iJen~" st e&h tnd~r~Jun l duclllng unll, by untt number or - unlt de~~&nath)n. d r 3111cru 15e hand deli\ered to individual dwell-

u n ~ t ~ h) unit numher ur unit der~gnauon and posted in i t ) t i t ~ t l . l l t d r e ~ ~ . ~ t ~ ~ r ~ u r p s e ~ UI th15 reitlun. the term "unit desig- 1nd11311" ~11311 itlcdn the gcugrilphie loidtton of a duelling unit by tloul . ~ I J llour area. ,311 notice rhdll iontaln the lolloulng infor- 111.,111,11 ~~ .. . -

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 8). page 11, line 30, page 12, line 1, by striking out "w' in line 30, page 11 and "appropriate" in line I , page 12 and inserting

upon discontinuance of service Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 8). page 12, line I, by striking out "m'

and insertine - 7(31 n J thergh! t o pr:'\!?$!hc u ~ ~ l i t v uith a loruardingaddress.

4l11enJ Bill. ~ d d e 12, h! in\erttng bctucen ltnes I and 2

. . Amend Sec. 4 (Sec. IS), page 12, line 6, by inserting a bracket

before "(a)" Amend Sec. 4 (Sec. 18), page 12, line LO, by striking out the

bracket before "in" Amend Sec. 4 (Sec. 18). page 12, line 11, by striking out "1

shall" - Amend Sec. 4 (Sec. 18). pare 12. lines 11 and 12, bv striking . -

(71 In an) lnstarlce trhere the g!ncrnlng hod) ol 2 puhlli c1.11 " . W e e c a n d reasonablecost~oisuil" -

utllit) o f * atJ-ot the i ~ r > t .la,r ha\ d rcgutl~inpur>tlal l t to .\nlrnd 4 e i 4 ISe i 18). page 12, line 14, by lnsertlng a bracket subceaion (:I uf \cat.jn 7, thc ~~ttportant rlotlcc 1 0 tenilllt\ ,hdll alter "4 '' ha$e added to p-j;h-irhe tc?&)i Ing notice: -. I :\mr.~~d Scc. 4 1Sr.c. 18). l ) q e 12, by ~nscrttng between lines 14

For the first payment only, tenants may pay the total of their monthly rents, legally owing, if that total is less than the last bill.

Amend Sec. 3 (Sec. 7), page 10, lines 16 through 29, by striking out "the provisions of subsection" in line 16, all of lines 17 through 29 and insertina tke utility shall P @ ~ . ~ c & ? ~ a ~ p l ~ s a t ~ o n h r n ~ on uhlih ihc . -- tenant >hall p ro \~dc 111s Ilarnc arid iorwardl~ig addrcn The refund application form \hall h ~ , ~ c ~ h y ltrrl d3sc mall or other- uise hand delnered to the addrrc, of crch afieirc$tenant h) t~nlt

1 and 15


Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietr Dininni Dambrowski Danatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Klingaman Pott Kolter Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukovich Punt Lashinger Rappaport Laughlin RBSCO Lehr Reber Lescovitr Richardson Letterman Rieger Leri Ritter Levin Rocks Lewis Rybak Livengoad Salvatore

N A Y S - 0

Williams, H. Williams, J. D. Wilson Wogan Wozn~ak Wright, D. R. Wright. J . L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker

N O T V O T I N G - 2

Alden Kanuck E X C U S E D - ?


T h e m a j o r i t y r e q u i r e d b y t h e C o n s t i t u t i o n h a v i n g v o t e d i n t h e a f f i r m a t i v e , t h e q u e s t i o n w a s d e t e r m i n e d i n t h e a f f i r m a - t ive.

O r d e r e d , T h a t t h e c l e r k p r e s e n t t h e s a m e t o t h e S e n a t e f o r c o n c u r r e n c e .

* * *

T h e H o u s e p r o c e e d e d t o t h i r d c o n s i d e r a t i o n o f HB 1791, P N 2778, e n t i t l e d :

A n A c t a m e n d i n g T i t l e s 66 ( P u b l i c Utilities) a n d 75 (Vehicles) o f t h e P e n n s y l v a n i a C o n s o l i d a t e d S t a t u t e s , f u r t h e r p rov id ing f o r t h e t r a n s p o r t a t i o n o f s c h o o l c h a p e r o n s .

O n t h e q u e s t i o n , W i l l t h e H o u s e a g r e e t o t h e b i l l on t h i r d c o n s i d e r a t i o n ? M r . V R O O N o f f e r e d t h e f o l l o w i n g a m e n d m e n t s N o .

A7374:

A m e n d T i t l e , p a g e 1 , l ine 3, b y r e m o v i n g t h e pe r iod a f t e r "chaperons" a n d inse r t ing

a n d f o r c o n s t r u c t i o n o f e lectr ic g e n e r a t i n g uni ts . A m e n d Sec . I , p a g e l . l i n e 7 , b y i n s e r t i n g a f t e r "102"

, sec t ion 5 1 4 A m e n d Sec . I . Daae I . l i ne I I . bv inse r t ina a f t e r "amended"

o r a d d e d .

A m e n d Bill. u a a e 3 , b y i n s e r t i n r be tween lines 19 a n d 20

On t h e q u e s t i o n , W i l l t h e H o u s e a g r e e t o t h e a m e n d m e n t s ?

The S P E A K E R . T h e C h a i r r e c o g n i z e s t h e g e n t l e m a n f r o m C h e s t e r , MI. V r o o n .

M r . VROON. M r . S p e a k e r , A7374 i s i d e n t i c a l t o t h e amendment w h i c h w e o f f e r e d o n HR 1 1 9 1 h a v i n g t o do w i t h t h e C W I P m a t t e r , and I u r g e y o u r a c c e p t a n c e o f t h i s o n e o n t h i s b i l l a s w e l l a s on H B 1 1 9 1 .

O n t h e q u e s t i o n r e c u r r i n g , W i l l t h e H o u s e a g r e e t o t h e a m e n d m e n t s ?

T h e f o l l o w i n g ro l l c a l l w a s r e c o r d e d :

Y E A S - 1 9 0

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson Bittle Blaum Boriki Bowier B o ~ c ~ Brandl Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cachran Cohen Colafeila Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donatucci Dorr Duff? Durham Evans

Alden Emerson

Fargo Fee Fleck Foster. W. W. Faster, Jr . . A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Cannon Geisf George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Cirieca Gruitza Gruppo Hagarty Haluika Harper Hasay Hayes Heiier Haeffel Holiamatl Horgos Hutchinson, A. lrvii ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedv Klingaman Kolter

Livengood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McManagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maisle Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlavic Micozrie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasz Oliver Pendleton Perzel Peterson Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccala Pievskv

Kowalyshyn Pratt Kukovich Pueciarelli Lashinger Punt Laughlin Rappaport Lehr Rasco Lescovitz Reber Letterman Richardson Levi Rieger Levin Ritter Lewis Rocks

N A Y S - 0

N O T V O T I N G - 5

Kanuck Taddonio

Rybak Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Smith. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewan Sluban Swaim Sweet Swift Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trella Van Horne Vroon Waehob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Westan Wiggins Williams, J. D. Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R. Wright, J . L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker

Williams, H.

E X C U S E D - ?


T h e q u e s t i o n w a s d e t e r m i n e d i n t h e a f f i r m a t i v e , and t h e a m e n d m e n t s w e r e a g r e e d t o .

On t h e q u e s t i o n , W i l l t h e H o u s e a g r e e t o t h e bill on t h i r d c o n s i d e r a t i o n as

a m e n d e d ? M r . V R O O N o f f e r e d t h e f o l l o w i n g a m e n d m e n t s No.

A7342:

918 LEGISLATIVE

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting

and for construction of electric generating units. Amend Sec. 1, page 1, line I I , by inserting after "amended"

and a section is added Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19and 20

5 514. Construction of public utility operating units. Only upon the application of a public utility and the approval

of the application by the commission, evidenced by a construction permit granted by the commission, shall it be lawful for the utility to begin the construction of an operating unit. Every application for a construction permit shall be made to the commission in writing and shall be in the form and contain the information the commission requires by its regulations.

O n the question, Will the House agree to the amendments?

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Chesyr , Mr. Vroon.

Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, this is a duplicate again of the amendment which calls for a construction permit to be approved by the Public Utility Commission before any public utility plant can be built. You approved this on HB 1191. 1 ask you t o approve it again o n H B 1791.


The following rol! call was recorded:

YEAS-I91

Anderson Fargo Livengood Rybak Armstrong Fee Lloyd Salvatore Arty Fleck Lucyk Saurman Belardi Foster, W. W. McClatchy Serafini Belfanti Foster, Jr., A. Mclntyre Seventy Beloff Freind McMonagle Showers Berson Fryer McVerry Shupnik Bittle Gallagher Mackowrki Sieminrki Blaum Gallen Madigan Sirianni Borski Gamble Maiale Smith. 0. Bowser Cannon Manderino Smith, E. H. Boyes Geist Manmilier Smith. L. E. Brandt George Marmion Snyder Brown Gladeck Merry Spencer Burd Grabowski Michlovic Spitz Burns Gray Micouie Stairs Caltagirone Greenfield Miller Steighner Cappabianca Greenwood Maehlmann Stevens Cawley Grieco Morris Stewart Cersar Gruitra Mowery Stuban Cimini Gruppo Mrkonic Swaim Civera Hagarty Mullen Sweet Clark Haluska Murphy Swift Clymer Harper Nahill Taylor, E. Z. Cochran Hasay O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Cohen Hayes Olasz Telek Colafella Heiser Oliver Tigue Cole Hoeffel Pendleton Trello Cordisco Honaman Perzel Van Horne Cornell Horgos Peterson Vroon Coslctt Hutchinson, A. Petrarca Wachob Cowell lrvis Petrone Wambach Cunningham Itkin Phillips Wargo DeMedio Jackson Piccola Wass DeVcner Johnson Pievsky Wenger DeWeese Kennedy Pistella Weston Daikeler Klingaman Pitts Wiggins Davies Koltcr Pott Williams. J. D. Dawida Kowalyshyn Pratt Wilson Deal Kukovich Pucciarelli Wogan Dinz Lashinger Punt Wozniak Dininni Laughlin Rappaport Wright, D. R.

JOURN AL-HOUSE APRIL 19,

Dombrowski Lehr Rasco Wright. J. L. Donatucci Lescovitz Reber Wright, R. C. Dorr Letterman Richardson Zwikl Duffy Levi Rieger Durham Levin Ritter Ryan, Emerson Lewis Rocks Speaker Evans

NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-4

Alden Kanuck Taddonio Williams, H. EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazier Miscevich Noyc Fiseher


On the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the bill o n third consideration as


A7302:

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting and empowering the commission to conduct certain annual studies on Federal tax credits and deferrals.

Amend Sec. 1, page 1, line 7, by inserting after "102" , section 514

Amend Sec. I, page I, line 11, by inserting after "amended" or added

Amend Sec. I , page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20 8 514. Study of Federal tax credits and deferrals.

The commission shall undertake a comprehensive study in cooperation with appropriate Federal and State agencies, including the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission and the Internal Revenue Service, to determine the dollar value of the deferred Federal taxes of Pennsylvania electric utilities with gross annual revenue in excess of $2,500,000. The study shall be directed to findings on:

(1) The amount of investment tax credit generated each year since 197 1.

(2) An annual summary of the accelerated depreciation of Federal tax deferrals received since 1970.

(3) The impact on present and future utility rates of the availability or nonavailability of such tax credits and deferrals.

hec commission shall have 180 days to prepare this study, making it current as of the previous tax year. Thereafter, the commission shall publish an annual update.



Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, this is again a repeat of an amendment on HB 1191. It has t o d o with the tax study which we asked t o be made o n tax and credits and deferrals. I ask for your approval o n this amendment as you did on HB 1191.

On the question recurring. Will the House agree to the amendments?


Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson Bittle Blaum Bowser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham ~ e ~ e d r o Jackson DeVerter Johnson DeWeese Kennedy Daikeler Klingaman Davies Kolter Dawida Kowalyshyn Deal Kukavich Dietz Lashinger Dininni Laughlin Dambrowski Lehr Dorr Lescovilz Duffy Letterman Durham Levi Emerson Levin Evans Lewis

LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE 919

Pievsky Wenger Pistella Weston Pitts Wiggins Pratl Williams. 1. D Pucciarelli Wilson Punt Wogan Rappaport Womiak Rasco Wright. D. R. Reber Wright, J. L. Richardson Wright, R. C . Rieger Zwikl Rifler Rocks Ryan. Rybak Speaker

YEAS-184

Fargo Livengoad Salvatore Fee Lloyd Saurman Fleck Lucyk Seralini Faster, W. W. McClarchy Seventy Foster. J r . , A. Mclntyre Showers Freind McMonagle Shupnik Fryer McVerry Sieminski Gallagher Mackawski Sirianni Gallen Madigan Smith. 8. Gamble Maiale Smith. E. H. Cannon Manderino Smith, L. E. Geist Manmiller Snyder George Merry Spencer Gladeck Michlovic Spitz Grabowski Micozzie Stairs Gray Miller Steighner Greenfield Moehlmann Stevens Greenwood Morris Stewart Grieca Mawery Stuban Gruitza Mrkonic Sweet Gruppo Mullen Swift Hagarty Murphy Taylor. E . Z. Haluska Nahill Taylor. F. E. Harper O'Donnell Telek Hasay Olasz Tigue Hayes Oliver Trello Haeffel Perzel Van Horne Honaman Pelersan Vraon Horgos Petrarca Wachob Hutchinson, A. Petrone Wambach lrvis Phillips Wargo ltkin Piccala Wass

Heiser Marmion Pall

NOT VOTING-8

Amend Sec. 1, page 3. by inserting between lines 19 and 20 § 1707. Management audits.

(a) Audits mandated.-For any public utility with assets of $7,500,000 or more, the commission shall at intervals not less than four years or greater than six years apart:

( I ) Make a complete management audit of every public - utility.

(2) Ascertain the quality of service provided by every public utility.

(3) Make findings and recommendations, based on the management audit, for use by the utility to operate a maximum efficiency in providing service to the public.

(4) Publish a statement in the Pennsylvania Bulletin, after the utility in question has had an opportunity to review and respond to the audit report, that the management audit has been completed and it and the utility's response, if any are available at the commission and at the utility's local office for public inspection. (b) Outside audit authorized.-In lieu of performing the

audits mandated by subsection (a) itself, the commission may, after competitive bidding, contract with one or more independent accounting or management consulting firms for the performance of the required audits. Any firm performing any such audit shall, as a condition of the contract, refrain from any affiliation or employment with the audited public utility for a period of two years following the completion of the audit unless authorized by the commission.

(c) Audit power not limited.-This section shall in no way limit the commission's power to audit or investigate any public utility in its discretion.

Alden Donatucci Pendleton Taddonio Borski Kanuck Swaim Williams. H.

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frazier Miscevich Naye Fischer




A7304:


and for management audits. Amend Sec. I , page 1, line I I , by inserting after "amended"

or added



Mr. VROON. Mr. Speaker, this is a repeat of the amendment calling for management audits, and I ask that you approve this like you did on HB 1191, please.



YEAS-192

Anderson Fargo Lloyd Saurman Armstrong Fee Lucyk Seralini Any Fleck McClatchy Seventy Belardi Foster, W. W. Mclntyre Showers Belfanti Foster. Jr., A. McMonaglc Shupnik Beloff Freind McVerry Sicminski Berson Fryer Mackowski Sirianni Biltle Gallagher Madigan Smith. B. Blaum Gallen Maiale Smith, E. H. Borski Gamble Manderino Smith. L. E. Bowaer Gannon Man'miller Snyder Boyes Geist Marmion Spencer Brandt George Merry Spitr Brown Gladeck Michlovic Stairs Burd Grabowski Micouie Steighner Burns Gray Miller Stevens Caltagirone Greenfield Moehlmann Stewart Cappabianca Greenwood Morris Stuban Cawley Grieco Mowery Swaim Cessar Gruitza Mrkonic Sweet Cimini G~UPPO Mullen Swift Civera Hagarty Murphy Taddonio Clark Haluska Nahill Taylor, E. 2. Clymer Harper O'Dannell Taylor, F. E. Cochran Hasay Olasz Tclek Cohen Hayes Oliver Tiguc Colafella Hciscr Perlel Trello


.. . Diet2 Lashinger Rasca ~ a k i a k Dininni Laughlin Reber Wright, D. R Dombrowski Lehr Richardqnn wrioht 1 I

Cole Hoeffel Peterson Van Horne Cordisco Honaman Petrarca Vraon Cornell Horgos Petrone Wachob Coslett Hutchinsan, A. Phillips Wambach Cowell lrvis Piccola Wargo Cunningham ltkin Pievsky Wass DeMedio Jackson Pistella Wenger DeVerter Johnson Pitts Weston DeWeese Kennedy Pot1 Wiggins Daikeler Klingaman Pratt Williams, H. Davies Kalter Pucciarelli Williams, J. D. Dawida Kowalyshyn punt Wilson Deal Kukovich Ra~~vavor t Woean

. . . . -. . . , - . -. Donatucci Lescovitz Rieger Wright, R. C Dorr Letterman Ritter Zwikl Duffy Levi Racks

(c) E n v i r o n m e n t a l quest ions.-The c o m m i s s i o n m a y cer t i fy t o t h e D e p a r t m e n t o f E n v i r o n m e n t a l Resources a n y ques t ion regard ing t h e appl icabi l i ty o f e n v i r o n m e n t a l l a w s a n d regula- l ions , w h e n a n y s u c h q u e s t i o n a r i ses i n a p roceed ing u n d e r this sec t ion a n d m a y i n c o r p o r a t e t h e d e p a r t m e n t ' s f indings i n i t s deci- slon.

O n t h e q u e s t i o n ,

W i l l t h e House agree t o t h e amendments?

T h e SPEAKER. T h e C h a i r r e c o g n i z e s the g e n t l e m a n f r o m C h e s t e r , Mr. V r o o n .

Durham Levin Rybak Ryan. Emerson Lewis Salvatore Speaker Evans Livengoad

N A Y S - 0

NOT V O T I N G - 3

Alden Kanuck Pendleton

EXCUSED-5


The q u e s t i o n w a s d e t e r m i n e d i n t h e a f f i r m a t i v e , a n d t h e

amendments w e r e agreed to.

On t h e q u e s t i o n r e c u r r i n g , W i l l the H o u s e a g r e e t o t h e bi l l on t h i r d c o n s i d e r a t i o n a s

amended? Mr. VROON o f f e r e d t h e f o l l o w i n g a m e n d m e n t s No.

A7303:

Mr. V R O O N . Mr. S p e a k e r , t h i s i s again a repeat o f an a m e n d m e n t w h i c h w e a p p r o v e d u n a n i m o u s l y on HB 1191 ,

and t h i s has t o do w i t h t h e m o n i t o r i n g o f t h e c o n v e r s i o n pos- sibi l i t ies o f c o a l - f i r e d un i t s . 1 a s k y o u to a p p r o v e it a g a i n .

On t h e q u e s t i o n r e c u r r i n g , W i l l t h e House agree t o t h e amendments?

T h e f o l l o w i n g r o l l c a l l w a s recorded:

Y E A S - 1 9 0

Anderson Evans Lewis Salvatore Armstrong Fargo Livengood Saurman Arty Fee Llovd Serafini ~ ~~~~~~~~~

Belardi Fleck ~ u c b k Seventy Belfanri Foster, W. W. McClatchy Showers Beloff Foster, Jr. . A. Mclntyre Shupnik Berson Freind McMonagle Sieminski Bittie Fryer McVerry Sirianni Blaum Gallagher Mackowski Smith. B. Horski Gallen Madigan smith; E. H. Howser Gamble Maiale Snyder Bnyes Gannon Manderino Spencer Brandt Geist Manmiller Spitr Brown George Marmion Stairs Burd Gladeck Michlovic Steighner Burns Grabowski Micorzie Stevens Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Clvera Clark Clyrner Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Co~letI Cawell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donalucci Darr n t ~ f f y Durham Emerson

Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieca Gruitra Gruppo Hagarty Halurka Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Hanaman Hargos Hutchinsan. lrvis ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Kolter Kowalyshyn K,ukovich Lashinger Laughlin Lehr Lescovitz Letterman Levi Levin

Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasz Oliver Perrel Peterson Petrarca Petrone

A. Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pitts Pot1 Pratt Pucciarelli Punt Rappapon Rasco Reber Richardson Rieger Ritter Rocks Rybak

Stewan Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor. E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach Warga Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams, H. Williams, J. D. Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wrinht. D. R. ~ r i i h t ; J. L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker


NAYS-0

NOT VOTING-5

Alden Merry Pendleton Smith, L. E. Kanuck

EXCUSED-5





A6039:

Amend Title, page I, line 1, by striking out "Titles" and inserting

Title Amend Title, page 1, line I, by striking out "and 75

(Vehicles)" Amend Title, page I , line 2, by inserting after "providing"

for the inspection and monitoring of certain facilities;

Amend Title, page I, line 3, by inserting after "chaperons" and making conforming amendments to Title 75 (Vehicles)

Amend Sec. 1, page I , line 7, by inserting after "102" , section 506

Amend Sec. I , page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20 5 506. Inspection of facilities and records.

(a) General rule.-The commission shall have full power and authority, either by or through its members, or duly authorized representatives, whenever it shall deem it necessary or proper in carrying out any of the provisions of, or its duties under this part, to enter upon the premises, buildings, machinery, system, plant, and equipment, and make any inspection, valuation, physical examination, inquiry, or investigation of any and all plant and equipment, facilities, property, and pertinent records, books, papers, accounts, maps, inventories, appraisals, valuations, memoranda, documents, or effects whatsoever, of any public utility, or prepared or kept for it by others, and to hold any hearing for such purposes. In the performance of such duties, the commission may have access to, and use any books, records, or documents in the possession of, any department, board, or commission of the Commonwealth, or any political subdivision thereof. Before the commission ascertains the fair value of all new construction, extensions and additions to the value of the property of any public utility as provided in section 1311 (relating to valuation of property of a public utility) and includes that property in ascertaining either general, extraordinary or temporary rates, the public utility shall waive all objections to permit the commission to carry out its powers and duties as prescribed in this section.

(b) Nuclear facilities.--For purposes of carrying out inspec- tions of nuclear facilities, the commission may employ the services of the Department of Environmental Resources or any other State agency the commission may designate. The public utility shall permit the installation of such monitoring devices as the commission or the designated agency shall employ within the facility involved. The public utility shall agree to notify such agency as the commission shall designate immediately after a serious accident or one that may be serious and to present in writing within ten days after any accident a report of such accident along with the causes of the accident and action taken to correct the situation that caused the accident.

Amend Sec. 3, page 6, line 1, by striking out "This" and inserting

Section I of this act insofar as it relates to section 506 shall take effect immediately and the remainder of this


The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. MANDERINO. Mr. Speaker, this is an identical

amendment that was offered t o H B 1191 and passed. It has to d o with Pennsylvania being able t o inspect nuclear facilities within the



YEAS- 189

Anderson Evans Livengoad Serafini Armstrong Farga Lloyd Seventy Arty Fee Lucyk Showers Belardi Fleck McClatchy Shupnik Be(fan1i Faster, W. W. Mclntyre Sieminski Beloff Foster, Jr . , A. McMonagle Sirianni Berson Freind Mackowski Smith, B. Bittle Fryer Madigan Smith, E. H. Blaum Gallagher Maiale Smith, L. E. Borski Gallen Manderino Snyder Bowser Gamble Manmiller Spencer Boyes Cannon Merry Spitz Brandt Geist Michlovic Stairs Brow George Micorzie Steighner

Gladeck Miller Stevens Grabowski Moehlmann Stewan

Ca'tagirone Gray Morris Stuban Cappabianca Greenfield Mowery Swaim cawley Greenwood Mrkonic Sweet Cess,, Grieco Mullen Swift cimini Gruiiza Murphy Taddonio civera Gruppo Nahill Taylor. E. 2. Clark Hagany O'Donnell Taylor, F. E. Clyrner Haluska Olasr Telck Cochran Harper Oliver Tigue Cohen Hasay Perzel Trello

gEteafella Hayes Peterson Van Horne Haeffel Petrarca Vroon

Cordisco Honaman Petrone Wachob Cornell Horgos Phillips Wambach coslett Hutchinson, A. Piccola Wargo cowell Irvis Pievsky Wass Cunningham ltkin Pistella Wenger DeMedio Jackson Pitts Weston DeVe'ter Johnson Pott Wiggins DeWeese Kennedy Pratt Williams, H. Daike'er Klingaman Pucciarelli Williams, 1. D. Davies KoLter Punt Wilson Dawida Kowalyshyn Rappapan Wogan Deal Kukavich Rasco Wozniak ~ i ~ t ~ Lashinger Reber Wright, D. R. ~i"i""i Laughlin Richardson Wright, J. L. Dombrowski Lehr Rieger Wright, R. C. Donatucci Lescovitz Ritter Zwikl Dorr Letterman Rocks Duffy Levi Rybak Ryan, Durham Levin Salvatore Speaker Emerson Lewis Saurman

NAYS-2

Heiser Marmion


N O T VOTING-4 I Will the House agree t o t h e amendments?

Alden Kanuck McVerry Pendleton

EXCUSED-5



O n t h e question recurring, Will t h e H o u s e agree t o t h e bill o n th i rd consideration as

amended? Mr. M A N D E R I N O offered the following amendments No.

A6040:

Amend Title, page I , line I , by striking out "Titles" and inserting

Title -~... Arfiefld Title, page I , line 1, by striking out "and 75

(Vehicles)" AmendTitle, page 1 , l ine2 , by inserting after "Statutes,"

removing certain utilities f rom the sliding scale of rates provision;

Amend Title, page 1, line 3, by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting

and making conforming amendments to Title 75 (vehicles).

Amend Sec. I , page I , line 7, by inserting after "102" , subsection (a) of section 1307

Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20 5 1307. Sliding scale o f rates; adjustments.

(a) General rule.-Any public utility, except a common carrier, may establish a sliding scale of rates or such other method for the automatic adjustment o f the rates of the public utility as shall provide a just and reasonable return on the fair value of the property used and useful in the public service, to be determined upon such equitable o r reasonable basis as shall provide such fair return. A tariff showing t h e scale o f rates under such arrangement shall first be filed with the commission, and such tariff, and

mission finds the existing rates unjust o r unreasonable: *

Amend Sec. 3, page 6, line I , by striking out "This" and inserting

That part of section 1 relating to section 1307(a) shall take effect immediately and the remainder o f this

O n t h e question,

T h e SPEAKER. T h e Chair recognizes t h e minority whip. Mr. M A N D E R I N O . Mr . Speaker, this amendment is a n

identical amendment that was offered t o HB 1191. It deals with the abolit ion o f t h e fuel adjustment clause in the PUC law. L ask for adopt ion.

O n the question recurring, Will t h e House agree t o t h e amendments?


Anderson Fargo Lloyd Saurman Armstronp, Fee Lucyk Serafini Arty Fleck Belardi Foster, W. W. Belfantl Foster, Jr., A. Beloff Freind Berson Fryer Bittle Gallagher Blaum Gallen Borski Gamble

McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackawski Madigan Maiale Manderino

Bowser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cesrar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cardisco Carnell Caslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeeae Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dietz Dininni Dombrowski Donatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Gannon Manmiller Geist Marmion George Merry Gladeck Michlovie Grabowski Micazzie Gray Miller Greenfield Moehlmann Greenwood Morris Grieco Mowery Gruitra Mrkonic Gruppo Mullen Hagarty Murphy Haluska Nahill Harper O'Donnell Hasay Olasz Hayes Oliver Heiser Perzel Hoeffel Peterson Hanaman Petrarca Horgos Petrone Hutchinson, A. Phillips lrvis Piccola Jackson Pievsky Johnson Pistella Kennedy Pitts Klingaman Pou Kalter Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukovich Punt Lashinger Rappaport Laughlin Rasca Lehr Reber Lercovitz Richardson Letterman Rieger Levi Ritter Levin Rocks Lewis Rybak Livengoad Salvatore

NAYS-I

N O T VOTING-3

Alden

Barber Fischer

Kanuck Pendleton EXCUSED-5

Frarier Miscevieh

Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith. B. Smith. E. H Smith. L. E.

Spencer Spitr Stairs Steighner Stevens Stcwan Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Taylor. E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vraon Wachab Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams, H. Williams. 1. D. Wilson Wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R. Wright. J. L. Wright, R. C. Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker


T h e question h a s determined in thc affirmative, a n d the amendments were agreed to .


amended? M r . H O E F F E L offered the following a n ~ e n d m e l ~ t s No.

A6042:

Amend Titlc, page I , line I, by striking out "Titles" and inserting

Title Amend Title, page I , line I . by striking out "and 75

(Vehicles)" Amend Title, pagc 1, line 2, by inserting after "providing"

for certificates of need and reliability for major electrical gencrating facilities and making conforming amendments to Title 75 (Vehicles) o f thc Pennsyl- vania Consolidated Statutes

Amend Sec. 1, page I, lines 7 through 9, by htriking out "and paragraph (2)(iv)" in line 7 , all of line 8, and "section 2501(b)" in line Y

Amend Sec. I , page I , line 10, h) striking out "are" and inserting

is Amend Sec. I , page I , linc I I , by inserting after "amcndcd"

and a definition is added

Section 2. Title 66 is amended by adding a chapter to read: CHAPTER 12

C:EKTIFICATES OF NEED AND RFI.IABILIT\' Sec. 1201. Requirement for certificate o f need and reliability. 1202. Procedure for issuance of certificate o f nccd and

reliability. 1203. Reports of forecasts and assessments o f loads and

resources. 1204. Methodology used for preparing forecasts. 1205. Comments and evaluation o f reports. 1206. Inapplicability of chapter to certain facilities. 1207. Certificate prerequisite to ccrtificate o f public

convenience. 6 1201. Requirement for certificate of need and reliability.

(a) General rule.-No public utility which gencrates clcctric- ity shall acquire, construct or begin to operate a major generating facility without having obtained from the commission a ccrtificate that the present and future public necessity requires or will require acquisition o r construction of additional gcncrating capacity and that the nlcans o f production o f power by the proposed facility has been demonstrared from the standpoint of pro^

viding adequate, economic and reliablc service to satisfy local, State and regional energy requirements.

(b) Criteria for issuance.-Consideration shall be given to conservation, cogeneration, load management and renewable solar and other energy sources and to the economy and technological development of various sizes and types o f gencrating facilities, including planned and forced outage rates and the effect thereof on regional reserve requirements.

(c) When issued.-After the effecrive date of this chapter, no construction of any facility o r modification of any existing facility shall be comrncnced by any electric utility without first obtaining a certificate o f necd and reliability. Any facility under construction but not substantially completed before the effective date o f this chapter shall not be continued without the issuance of

(d) Effect of issuance.-The issuance of a certificate shall co~ictitute a rebuttable presumption o f the used and useful nature of an) such Facility in any subsequent State o r local proceeding. $ 1202. Procedure for issuance of certificate of need and

reliabilit) ( a ) Application for certificate.-Every application for a cer-

tificate of nced and reliability shall be made t o the commission in writing, be wrified by oath or affirmation and be in such form and contain such information as the commission may require by its regulations.

(b) Basis for issuance.-A certificate shall be granted by the commission or~ly i f the commission finds and determines that the rncans of production o f power by the proposed facility has been demo~istrated to provide adequate, economic and reliable service to the customers in the utilities service area. In meeting projected power needs consideration shall be given to conservation, cogeneration, load management and renewable solar and other energy sources, power available from regional power grids and to the relative economy and technological development of various sire? and types of generating facilities. Consideration shall also be given to planned and forced outage rates and the effect thereof on regional reserve requirements.

(c) Tcrms and conditions.-In granting the certificate, the commission may impose such conditions as it deems to be just and rcasonable. Any holder of a certificate o f need and reliability, by exercising the authority confirmed by the certificate, shall hc deemed to have waived any and all objections to the tcrms atrd conditions of the certification.

(d) Investigations and hearings.-In every case, the commission shall makc a finding or determination in writing stating whether or not its approval is granted. For the purpose of cnabling the commission to make such finding o r determination, i t shall hold such public hearings and, befoie or after hearing,.it may make such inquiries, physical examinations, evaluations and investigations, and may require such plans, specifications, estimates of cost or other data, as it deems necessary or proper in enabling i t to reach a finding o r determination.

(e) Review by commission.-In the event that the commission icsues a certificate of necessity, such certificate may be reviewed by the commission on its own motion at any time. In any subsequent proceedings involving the generating facility, there shall be a rebuttable presumption that the commission's determination on the need for such facility is valid. 6 1203. Reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and

resources. (a) Preparation and filing.-Every electric utility in this

Commonwealth shall prepare and transmit to the commission within 180 days of the effective date of this chapter, an initial report specifying 5 , 12 and 20-year forecasts o r assessments of loads and resources for its service area and, thereafter, every electric utility shall file the 5 , I2 and 20-year forecasts o r assessments every tu,o years. The report shall be transmitted to the commission on a date which the commission by rule o r regulation, estab- lishes on a staggered basis for each electric utility. The report shall set forth the facilities which, as determined by the electric utility, will be required to supply electric power during the forecast or assessment periods.

(b) Content.-The report shall be in a form specified by the commission and shall include all of the following:

( I ) A tabulation of estimated peak loads, resources and reserve margins for each year d l ~ i n g the 5 and 12-year forecast or assessment periods and a n estimate of peak load, resources and reserve margins for the last year in the 20-year forecast o r assessment period.

(2) A list of existing electric generating plants in service with a description of planned and potential generating capacity at existing sites.

(3) A list of facilities which will be needed to serveaddi- tional electrical requirements identified in the forecasts o r

. or assessment periods.

(6) A reliability analysis which demonstrates the ten- year forecast of reliability levels obtained from the existing system including planned additions.

(7) An annual load duration curve and a forecast of anticipated peak loads for each forecast or assessment period for the residential, commercial, industrial and such other major demand sectors in the service area of the electric utility as the commission determines.

(8) Load duration curve for the preceding year. (9) Projections o f forced and planned outage rates and

operation and maintenance costs (fixed and variable) for the existing and planned facilities.

(10) Capacity and energy resources available via inter- connects with other utilities on a short-term economy basis and on an emergency basis including the probability of availability of such resources and their estimated cost.

(11) Five-year annual fuel use, operation and maintenance costs, equivalent availability factor and heat rate by plant.

(12) A description of projected population growth, urban development, induscrial expansion and other growth factors influencing increased demand for electric energy and the bases for such projections.

8 1204. Methodology used for preparing forecasts. The commission shall establish and every electric utility shall

utilize, for purposes of the report, a common methodology for preparing forecasts of future loads and resources. After applying the commission's established methodology to the mandatory elements of the report specified in section 1203 (relating to reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and resources), any electric utility may transmit to the commission supplementary information and forecasts based upon an alternative methodology. If sueh alternate methodology is employed, the electric utility shall fully describe the data and other components of the methodology and shall specify the reasons why the approach is considered more accurate than that established by the commission. 5 1205. Comments and evaluation of reports.

For a period of 30 days after the receipt of the reports required under section 1203 (relating to reports of forecasts and assessments of loads and resources), the commission shall receive the comments of any person on the reports and, within an additional 30 days, shall make public its independent evaluation and analysis of the reports. § 1206. lnapplicahility o f chapter to certain facilities.

This chapter does apply to any major generating facility actually in operation upon the effective date o f this chapter. Any facility under which construction which is not substantially completed as o f the effective date o f the chapter shall not be continued without issuance of a certificate. 5 1207. Certificate prerequisite to certificate o f public

convenience,. After the effective date of this chapter, the eommission shall

not issue a new certificate of public convenience nor restore any


The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. Hoeffel.

Mr. HOEFFEL. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This is the same certificate-of-need amendment that I

offered to the earlier legislation. I ask for its approval. Thank you.

assessments, the general location of those facilities and the anticipated types of fuel to be utilized in the proposed facilities.

(4) A description of additional system capacity which might be achieved through, among other things, improvements in:

(i) Generating or transmission efficiency. (ii) Importation of power. (iii) Interstate or interregional pooling. (iv) Improvements in efficiencies of operation. (v) Conservation and load management.

(5) An estimation of the availability and cost of fuel resources for the 5 , I2 and 20-year forecast or assessment periods with a statement by the electric utility describing firm commitments for supplies o f fuel required during the forecast


revoked certificate o f public convenience unless the utility has also obtained a certificate of need and reliability from the commission.

Section 3. Paragraph (2)(iv) of the definition of "contract carrier by motor vehicle" in section 2501 (b) of Title 66 is amended to read:


4 Amend Sec. 3, page 6, line I , by strikinp out "3" and insert-

ing 5

Onthequestion, the House agree to the amendments?

I The following roll call was recorded:

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Bclfanti Beloif Berson Biltle Blaum Borski Bowber Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Colafella Cole Cordisco Cornell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedia DeVerter

i DeWeese Daikeler Daviea Dawida Deal Diptr Dininni Dombrowski Donalucci I Dorr Duffy Durham

Fargo Fee Fleck Foster, W. W. Foster, Jr.. A . Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geist George Giadeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitza Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honaman Horgos Hutchinson, A. lrvis ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Kolter Kowalyshyn Kukovich Lashinger Laughlin Lehr Lescovitz Letterman Levi

Livengood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackawski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozzie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Dannell Olasz Oliver Perzel Peterson Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pitts Poll Pratt Puceiarelli Punt Rappapon Rasco Reber Richardson Rieger Ritter

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith. 6. Smith, E. H. Smilh, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewan Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taddonio Tavlor. E. Z. . .~ Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger We~lon Wiggins Williams. J . D. Wilson wogan Wozniak Wright, D. R. Wright, J. L. Wright, R. C. . Zwikl


1 ltle Amend Title, page I , line I by striking out "and 75

(Vehicles)" Amend Title, page I . line 2 by inserting after "further"

providing for the removal o f certain utility facilitieb from rate base calculations in the event o f extraordinary outages.

Amend Title, page I , line 3 by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting

and making conforming amendments to Title 75

Emerson Levin Rocks Ryan, Evans 1.ewis Rybak Speaker

NAYS-0

N O T VOTING-5

Alden Kanuck I'endlcroii Williams. H. Cahen

EXCUSED-5

Frazier Miscevich NOYE Barber Fischer

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, a n d the amendments were agreed to .


amended? ~~~~~~~~~ ~

Mr. M A N D E R I N O offered thc following amendments No. A6046:

Amend Title, page I , line I by striking out "Titles" and inserting

-. .

(Vehicles). Amend Sec. I , page 1, line I I by inserting after "amended"

and a section is added Amend Bill. oaee 3 . bv inserting between lines 19 and 20

Section I o f this act, insofar as it relates to section 1315 of Title 66, shall take effect immediately and the remainder o f this

O n the question, Will the House agree t o the amendments?

T h e SPEAKER. T h e Chair recognizes the minority whip. Mr. M A N D E R I N O . Mr. Speaker, this amendment 6046 is

a n identical amendment that was offered t o HB 1191 dealing with e j t raordinary outages beyond the 90 days. 1 ask for its approval, Mr. Speaker.



V F A S - I ~ < . -. *- ."-

Anderson Emcisoli I.evin Rybak Armstrong E\ans Lewis Salvatore Art? Fargo Livengood Saurman Belardi FCC Lloyd Sevenry Belianti Fleck Lucyk Showers Belolf Bcriori Bittlc Blaum Borski Rowser Boyei Brandl Brown Burd Burns Caltagironr Cappabianca Cawley Ccssai

F o r W. ' McClatchy Foster, Jr.. A . Mclntyre Freind McMonagle Ciallaghcr McVerry Gallen Mackowski Gamble Madigan Gannon Maialc Geisr Manderino George Manmiller Gladcck Marmion Grabowski Merry Gray Michlovic Greenfield Micorrie Greenwood Miller Grieco Moehlmann Gruitra Morris Gruppu Mowery Hagarty Mrkonic Haluska Mullen Harper Murphy Hasay Nahill tiayes O'Dannell Heirer Olasz Hoeifel Oliver Honaman Perrei Horgas Petrarca Hutchinion, A. Petrone l r v i b Phillips l tk in Piccala Jackson Pievsky Johnson Pistella Kennedy Pitts Klingaman Pott Kolter Pratt Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Kukovich Punt Lashinger Rappapon Laughlin Rasco Lehr Reber Lescovitr Richardson Letterman Ritter Levi Rocks

NAYS-0

N O T VOTLNG-

Pendleton Serafini Peterson Sweet Rieger

Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, 9. Smirh. E. H. Smith, L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitz Stairs Sreighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Swaim Swift Taddonia Taylor, E. Z. Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Horne Vroon Wachob Wambach Wargo Wass Wenger Westan Wiggins Williams, 1. D Wagan Wozniak Wright. D. R . Wright, J . L. Wright, R. C . Zwikl

Ryan, Speaker

Williams, H. Wilson

LEGISLATIVE J( APRIL 19,

Barber Frazicr Iliiceuicli No ye Fischer

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, and the amendments were agreed to .


amended? Mr. M A N D E R I N Q offered the follo\ving amendments No.

A7293:

Amend Title, page 1, line 1, by striking out "Titles" and insertine ~"

Title Amend Title, page I , line I , by striklng out "and 75

(Vehicles)" Amend Title, page I, line 3, by removing thc period after

"chaperons" and inserting ; providing for citizen representation on the boards o f direcfurs o f certain public utilities; fixing the qualifications of such indi\,iduals; establishing procedures for the selection of citizen rcprescn- tatives and making conforming amendments to Title 75 (Vehicles).

Amend Sec. I , page 1, lines 7 through 9, by striking out "and paragraph (2)(iv)" in line 7, all o f line 8 and "scction 2501(b)" in linp 9 ..... .

Amend Sec. I , page I, line 10, by striking out "are" and inserting

is Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19and 20 Section 2. Title 66 is amended by addinr a c h a ~ t e r to read:

CHAPTER 20 - CITIZEN REPRESENTATION ON BOARDS O F

DIRECTORS Sec. 2001. Definitions. 2002. Citizen representation on boards of directors. 2003. Qualifications o f citizen representatives. 2004. Duties of citizen representatives. 2005. Advisory board. 2006. Powers and duties 01' advisory board. 2007. Public utility acceptance o f citizen rcprescntarives. § 2001. Definitions.

The following words and phrases when used in this chapter shall have, unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, the meanings given to them in this section:

"Citizen representative." An individual who mccts thc qualifications o f section 2003 (relatinr to qualifications o f citizen . . representatives), is appointed by an advisory board pursuant to section 2006 (relating to powers and duties of advisory board), is accepted by the public utility to serve on the board of directors pursuant to section 2007 (relating to public utility acceptance of citizen representatives) and performs the duties set forth in section 2004 (relating to duties o f citizen representatives).

"Public utility." Any privately owned public utility as defined in paragraph (I)(i) , (ii) and (vi) o f the definition of "public utility" as set forth in section 102 (relating to definitions). § 2002. Citizen representation on boards o f directors.

As a condition o f receiving, maintaining or renewing a ccrtifi~ cate of public convenience pursuarit t o section 1103 (relating t o procedure to obtain certificates of public convenience), each public utility as defined in this chapter shall accept a t least one citizen representative on its board of directors for every three noncitizen representatives on its board, such citizen representatives to be chosen by the independent advisory board for its service area.

Each citizen representative shall live in the service area o f the public utility on which the citizen representative serves on the hoard o f directors and shall be a consumer of the services o f the public utility. A citizen representative shall norbe:

(1) A director, stockholder o r employee o f any public

(21 An officer o r e m ~ l o v e e o f the commission I U t i l i t y . (3) An officcr o r eniployee of the Office o f Consumer

Advocate. $ 2004. Duties of c i l i~en representatives.

Each citizen re~resentative shall be entitled to take Dart in all deliberations and to vote on all decisions in the same manner as the members o f the board o f directors chosen bv the stockholders of the public utility. For performing the duties o f a member of the board of directors, a citizen representative shall receive such compensation and expenses as are paid to other members of the hoard 0: 2005. Advisory board.

(a) Membership.-There is hereby established an advisory hoard to choose indi\,iduals to serve as citizen representatives on the board o f directors o f certain public utilities. The advisory board shall consist of seven members t o he selected in the following manner:

( I ) 'Three members appointed by the Governor without Senate confirmation.

12) Two members, one to be appointed by the President pro lempore o f the Senate and one appointed by the Minority L.rader of the Senate.

(31 Two members, one to be appointed by the Speaker of the House o f Representatives and one appointed by the Minority I s a d r r of the House of Representatives. (b) Terms.-Except i b r the first members of the advisory

board, all other members o f the advisory board shall serve for a term of five years. The initial appointees o f the advisory board shall serve for the following terms:

(1) The two members appointed by the Senate leadership shall serve for a term o i t w o years.

12) The two members appointed by the leadership o f the House o f Representatives shall serve for a term of four years.

(3) The Governor in his appointments shall designate two members to serve lor a term o f three years and one member to servr for a term of five years. (c) Restrictions on advisory boird members.-No individ-

ual, whlle a member o r etnployee o f the advisory board, shall: (1) Serve on the board o f directors, own stock in o r be

an ernployee o f any public utility. (2) Be an officer or an employee of the commission. (3) Be an officer o r an employee of the Office of Con-

sumer Advocate. Id) Vacancies.-A majority o f the advisory board by resolu-

tion shall declare vacant the position on the board of any member who takes part in any activities prohibited in subsection (c). An individual appointed to fill a vacancy occurring other than by the expiration o f a term of office shall be appointed for the unexpired term of the member he succeeds. Any vacancy occurring on the advisory board shall be filled within 30 days in the manner in which that position was originally filled.

(e) Officers.-The advisory board shall elect a chairperson and a vice chairperson. In the absence of the chairperson o r in the event of a vacancy, the vice chairperson shall act a s chairperson.

(f) Quorum.-Four members of the advisory board shall constitute a quorum and the votes of a majority of the members present is required for any action or recommendation of the advisory board. The chairman or any four members o f the advisory board may call a meeting provided that advance written notice is mailed to each member and t o any such person wJlo requests notice for such meetings.

(g) Compensation.-Members of the advisory board shall be compensated at a rate of $50 per day and shall receive reim-

5 2003. Qualification5 o f citizen representatives

APRIL 19, 928 LEGISLATIVE JOURNAL-HOUSE

Stevens Stewart Stuban Swaim Swift Taddonia Taylor, E. Z. Taylor. F. E. Telek Tigue Trella Van Harne Wachob Wambach Warga Wass Wenger Weston Wiggins Williams. I . D Wilson Wagan Worniak Wright. D. R. Wright, J . L. Wright. R. C. Zwikl




A7339:


and requiring competitive bidding for purchase of coal by contract.

Amend Sec. 1, page I, line 11, by inserting after "amended" and a section is added

Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20 8 514. Competitive bidding for the purchase of coal by

contracts. (a) Bidding requirements.-Any electric utility which

intends to purchase more than an aggregate total of 50,000 tons of coal for any month on a contractual basis shall award such contracts to the lowest responsible bidder through competitive bidding procedure. Duplicate copies of all bids shall be sent by the bidder to the commission at least 48 hours prior to the opening of the bids. The utility shall notify the commission of the successful bidder and the bid price and provide an explanation whenever the contract is not awarded to the lowest bidder.

(b) Regulations.-The commission shall adopt regulations relative to such competitive bidding procedures.

(c) Pollution standards.-This section shall not be construed as to require the purchase of coal which is of a lower grade or quality than that which is required by the utility to meet emission or air quality standards set by Federal or State law or regulations.

(d) Violations.-The commission may, upon its own initiat- ive or upon an allegation by any person, investigate a claimed violation of this section, and, in doing so, shall not disclose the identity of any person making such allegation, without the consent of such person.

Ryan. Speaker

Vroon

Williams. H

Noye

Caltag~rone Grabowski Miller Cappabianca Greenfield Moehlmann Cawley Greenwood Morris Cessar Grieco Mowery Cimini Civera Gruitza Mrkanic

Gruppo Mullen Clark Hagarty Murphy Clymer Haluska Nahill Cochran Harper O'Donnell Cohen Hasay Olasz COlafelia Hayes Oliver Cole Heiser Perzel Cordisco Cornell Hoeffel Peterson

Honaman Petrarca Coslet~ Horgos Petrone cawell Hutchinson, A. Phillips Cunningham lrvis Piccala DeMedio ltkin Pievsky DeVerter Jackson Pistella DeWeesc Johnson Pitts Daikeler Kennedy Pott

Klingaman Pratl Kolter Deal Pucciarelli Kowalyshyn Punt

Dietr Kukovich Rappaport ~i,,i,,,,i Lashinger Rasco Dombrowski Laughlin Reber Donatucci Lehr Richardson Doir Letterman Rieger Duffy Levi Ritter Durham

NAYS-6

Le"ovitz Saurman Sweet Maiale Snyder

NOT VOTING-6

Alden Kanuck Pendleton Gray Lewis

EXCUSED-5

~~~b~~ Frarier Miscevich Fischer





Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, this amendment is identical to the one that was passed in HB 1191 and deals with coal purchases, Mr. Speaker.


YEAS-183



A7340:

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Eelfanti Beloff Berson Bittle Blaurn Borski Bowser Boyes Brandt Brawn Burd Burns

Emerson Evans Farga Fee Fleck Foster. W. W. Foster. l r . . A. Freind Fryer Gallagher Callen Gamble Gannon Geist George Gladeck

Lrvin Livengood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McManagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Manderino Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlovic Micozzie

Rocks Rybak Salvatore Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sierninski Sirianni Smirh. B. Smith. E. H Smith, L. E. Spencer Spitz Srairr Steighner

I Amend Title, page I, line 3 , by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting

and regulating billing practices. Amend Sec. I, page I, line 7, by inserting after "102"

, section I509 Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20

5 1509. Billing procedures. All bills rendered by a public utility as defined in paragraph

(I)(i), (ii), (vi) or (vii) of the definition of "public utility" in section 102 (relating to definitions) to its service customers. except bills for /nstallation charges, shall allow at least IS days for nonresidential customers and 20 days for residential customers from the date of transmittal of the bill for payment without incurring any late payment penalty charges therefor. All customers shall be permitted to receive bills monthly and shall be noti- fied of their right thereto. All bills shall be itemized to separately show amounts for basic service, rate structure for residential customers, schedule of rates per kilowatt hour for electric customers whether it is a flat charge or not for electric customers, Federal excise taxes, applicable State sales and gross receipts taxes, to the


extent practicable, fuel adjustment charge, if any, State tax adjustment charge or such other similar components of the total bill as the commission may order. Any electric or gas public utility billing customers on a bimonthly or quarterly basis and rendering interim statements or bills each month shall include in such interim statement or bill an amount for the fuel adjustment charge based upon one-half of the total expected bimonthly kilowatt hour or cubic foot billine or one-third of the total exnected quarterly billing and using the fuel adjustment charge rate applicable in the month of the interim statement or bill. At the time of preparing the bimonthly or quarterly bill, an appropriate adjustment shall be made in the total fuel adiustment charge billing for the period. Any public utility rendering bills on a bimonthly basis or quarterly basis shall calculate the fuel adjustment charge per kilowatt hour or cubic foot for the entire period as the weighted average of the two monthly rates or the three monthly rates whichever is applicable.



Mr. GEORGE. Mr. Speaker, this amendment is identi~.al to the amendment that was passed in HB 1191 that asked that the bill that is submitted to the ratepayers reflect just exactly what the bill is. Thank you.



YEAS-I91

Anderson Armstrung Arty Belardi Belfanti Belaff Berson Bittle Blaum Borski Bawser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clyrner Cochran Cohen Colafella Cole Cordisco Carnell Caslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVener DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal

Fargo Fee Fleck Foster, W . W . Faster, Jr., A . Freind Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geiit George Gladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruirra Cruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiser Hoeffel Honarnan Horgos Hutchinson, A. lrvis ltkin Jackson Johnson Kennedy Klingaman Kolrer KauAy;'.;n Kukovich Lashinger

Lloyd Lucyk McClarchy Mclnryre McMonagle McVeiry Mackowski Madigan Maiale Manderino Manmiller Maimion Merry Michlovic Micazzie Miller Moehlmann Morris Mawery Mrkonic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donneli Olasz Oliver Pendleron Perzel Peterson Petrarca Petrone Phillips Piccola Pievsky Pistella Pitts P ~ t t Prau Pucciarelli Punt

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showcri Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith, E. H. Smith. L. E. Snvder ~. Spitz Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Sruban Swaim Sweer Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. Z . Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trello Van Harne Vroon Wachab Wambach Warga Wass Wengcr Westan Wiggins Williams. J. D. Wilson Wagan

Dietz Dininni Dumbrowski Donatucci

Laughlin Lehr 1.ercavitz Lettermar, Levi

Duffy Levin Durham Lewis Emerson Livengood Evan5

Rappaport Wozniak Rasco Wright, D. R. Reber Wright, J. L. Richardson Wright, R. C. Rieger Zwikl Ritter Rocks Ryan, Rybak Speaker

NOT VOTING-4

Alden Fryer Kanuck Williams, H EXCUSED-5



On the question recurring, Will the House agree t o the bill on third consideration as

amended? Mr. WACHOB offered the following amendments No.

A7326:

Amend Title, page 1, line 2, by inserting after "Statutes," further providing for customer notifications and estimates of service charges and

Amend Sec. I, page I , line 7 , by inserting after "102" , section 1510

Amend Sec. I . page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20


The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Elk, Mr. Wachob.

Mr. WACHOB. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. This, as with the previous amendments, was passed in H B

1191 by a vote of 191 to 0. It requires utility companies t o provide certain information t o customers on new service. I urge an affirmative vote, Mr. Speaker.



YEAS-191

Anderson Armstrong Arty Belardi Belfanti Beloff 1 Berson Bittle Blaum Barski

Fargo Fee Fleck Faster. W. Foster, Jr . , Freind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble

Livengood Lloyd Lucyr

W. McClatchy A. Melntyre

McManagle McVerry Mackowski Madigan Maiale

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith. B. Smith, E. H.


Bowser Boyes Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Ceasar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cochran Cohen Colafclla Cole Cordisco Carnell Coslett Cowell Cunningham DeMedio DeVerter DeWeese Daikeler Davies Dawida Deal Dierz Dininni Dambrowski Donatucci Dorr Duffy Durham Emerson Evans

Gannon Gcist tieorgc Gladcck Crabouski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitra Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harper Hasay Hayes Heiscr Hoeffel Honaman Horgos

Manderir~o Manmiller Marmion Merry hlichlo\ii Mico,,ie hliller Mochlmaon Morris Mowery Mrkontc Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Uonnell Olas~ Oliver Perlcl Peterson Perrarca

Hutchinsun. A. I'errane Irvis Phillips llkin Piccola Jackson Pievsky Johnson Piitella Kennedy Pitts Klinganlan Putt Kolter Piatr Kowalyrhyn Pucciarelli Kukovich Punt

Smith, I . . E. Snyder Spencer Spiti Stair5 Sreighner Sreienh Steuart Stuban Swaicn Siiret Swift Taddonio Taylor, E. Z. laylor, 1,. E. Rlck Tigice Trello Van Harne Vraon Wachoh Wanbach Wargo Waii Uenger Webton Wiggins Williams, J . 0. Wilson Wocan

Lashinpi Rappapurr ~ o k i a k Laughlin Rasco Wright, D. K . Lehr Reber Wright, J. L . Lescovitz Richardson Wiighr, R . C. Letterman Rieger Lwikl Levi Ritter Lerin Ro~.ks Ryan, Lewis Rybak Speaker

N AYS-0

N O T VOTING-4

Alden Kanuck Pendleton Wiliiami, H.

EXCUSED-5

Barber Frarier Mircevich Noye Fischer

T h e question was determined in the affirmative, and the

amendments were agreed to .

O n the question recurring,

Will the House agree t o the bill o n third consideration as

amended?

Mr. DOMBROWSKI offered the following amendments

No. A7358:

Amend Title, page 1, line 3, by removing the period after "chaperons" and inserting

and prohibiting discontinuance o f certain public utility service during certain periods.

Amend Sec. I , page 1, lines 7 through 9, by striking out "and paragraph (2)(iv)" in line 7, all o f line 8 and "section 2501(b)" in line 9 ~~~~. .

Amend Sec. I , page 1, line 10, by striking out "are" and inserting

.., Amend Bill, page 3, by inserting between lines 19 and 20 Section 2. Section 1503 of Title 66 is amended by adding a

subsection t o read: § 1503. Discontinuance of service.

* * *

Section 3: Paragraph (2)(iv) o f the definition o f "contract carrier hy motor vehicle" in section 2501(b) of Title 66 is amended to read:

Amend Sec. 2, page 5 , line 10, by striking out "2" and inserting

4 Amend Sec. 3, page 6, line I , by striking out "3" and insert-

ing 5

O n thc question,

Will the House agree t o the amendments?

T h e SPEAKER. T h e Chair recognizes the gentleman from

Erie, M r . Dombrowski.

Mr. DOMBROWSKI. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

T h i ~ amendment also is identical to the one that passed in H B 1191 dealing with the discontinuing of utility services of residential customers. Thank you.

O n the question recurring,



YEAS-185

Anderson Fargo Armstrong Fee Arty Fleck Belardi Foster, W. W. Belfanu Forter, Jr., A. ncloff Frcind Bersorl Fryer Bittle Gallagher Blaum Gallcn Borxki Gamble Bower Boyrs Brandt Brown Burd Burns Caltagiianr Cappabianca Cawley Ceasar Cimini Civera Clark Clymer Cachran Cohen Colafella

Gcist George tiladeck Grabowski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Gruitra Gruppo Hagarty Haluska Harpcr Haiay Hayes Heiaer Hoeffel

Livcngood Lloyd Lucyk McClatchy Mclntyre McMonagle McVcrry Maukowski Madigan Maialc Manderina Manmiller Marmion Merry Michlavic Micozzie Miller Maehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkanic Mullen Murphy Nahill O'Donnell Olasz Oliver

Salvatore Saurman Serafini Seventy Showers Shupnik Sieminski Sirianni Smith, B. Smith. E. H. Srntlh. L. E. Snyder Spencer Spitr Stairs Steighner Stevens Stewart Stuban Swaim Sweet Swift Taylor. E. 2. Taylor, F. E. Telek Tigue Trello

Cole Honaman Perzel Van Horne Cordisco Horgor Peterson Waehob

Barber Fralier Miscevich Noyc Fischer



Corncll Hutchinson, A. Prtrarca \Sambach Coslett Irvi5 l'rtraoe Margo Corell ltkin Phillips Waic Cunningham Jackson Piccoia Wenger DeMedio Johnson Pievsky We,!"" DeVerter Kennedy Pirtella LVlggins DcWeere Klingarnan Pitti Will~ams, I , I). Ilaikeler Kolter 1'0tt Wilron Dabie? Kobaiyrhyn Pratt \\ ogan Dawida Kukoitch Pucciarelli Woiolak diet^ Lashinper Punt Wright, D. R. Dininni Laughlin Rappaport Wrisht. I . 1.. Dombiowski Lchr Rasco \Vright, R. C. Donatucci Leicovitz Kebrr Lniki Vuffy Leucrman Kiepci Durham Lcvi Kirrcr Ryan, Emerson Levin Rocks Speakcr Evans Lewis Rybak

NAYS-3

Dorr Taddonio Vroan

NOT VOTING-7

Aldcn Cannon Pendletnn Willtms, ti. Deal Kanuck Richardson


amended?

Cornrll Hoigos Petrarca Vroon Cnrlerr Hutchinion. A . Petrone Wachab Coxell lriib Phillips Wambach Cunningham ltkin Piccala Wargo DcMedio Jackrvn Pievsky Wass DcVerter Juhrtson Pistella Wenger I IeWcc~c Kennedy Pitts Westan Daikeler Klingaman Pott Wiggins Daiicr Kolter Prstt Williams, 1. D. I>awida Kowalyshyn Pucciarelli Wilson Ileal Kukovich Punt Wogan I)icrz 1.ashingci Rappapart Worniak Dinlnni Lauehlin Rasco Wright. D. R. Dombrowiki Lehr Reber Wright, I. L. Donalucci Lenuovilz Richardson Wright. R . C. Dorr Letterman Rieger Zwikl Lloffy Levi Ritter Durham Levin Rocks Ryan, Ernzrsoli L C K ~ S Rybak Speaker

NAYS-2

Heiser Marmlon

NOT VOTING-3

Alden Kanuck Williams, H.

Bill as amended was agreed to.

The SPEAKER. This bill has been considered on three different days and agreed to and is now on final passage.

The question is, shall the bill pass finally? Agreeable to the provisions of the Constitution, the yeas

and nays will now be taken.

YEAS- 190

Anderson Evans Lirengood Salvatore Aimstrong Fargo Lloyd Saurman Arty Fee Lucvk Scrafini Belardi Belfanti Beloff Berson Bi!Ile Blaum Boriki Bowser Boyes Brand1 Brown Burd Burns Caltagirone Cappabianca Cawley Cessar Cimini Civera Clark Clvmer

Fleck Foster, W . W. Foster. J r . . A. treind Fryer Gallagher Gallen Gamble Gannon Geirt George Gladeck Graborski Gray Greenfield Greenwood Grieco Cruitra Gruppo Hagarty Halurka

~ c t l a t c h y Mclntyre McMonagle McVerry Mackowskl Madigan Maialc Mandcrina Manmiller Merry Michlavic M i c o ~ n c Millcr Moehlmann Morris Mowery Mrkonic Mullen Murph) Nahill 0' Donncll

Seventy Showers Shupnik Sierninhhi Sirianni Smith, H . Smith. E. H . Smith. L. t. Snydcr Spencer Spit, Stairs Steighner Steven5 Srcrart Stuban Suaim Sweet Swill Taddonio Taulor. E . Z

~ ~. ~ ~~~~ , ~. Cochran Harper Olaiz Taylor. F. E. Cohen Hasay Olirer Telek Colafella Hayes Pendleton Tigut Cole Hocffel Perzel Trcllo Cordisca Honaman Peterson Van Horne

llarber Frarier Miscevich Noye lbischer

The majority required by the Constitution having voted in the affirmative, the question was determined in the affirmative.

Ordered, That the clerk present the same to the Senate for concurrence.

RULES COMMITTEE MEETING

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. HAYES. There will be no other votes taken today, but

before we adjourn, Mr. Speaker, 1 would like to have the members of the Rules Committee meet with me here at my desk before we adjourn. The reason 1 am asking the members of the Rules Committee to meet with me a t my desk is, 1 am going to hold a brief meeting of that committee.

COMMONWEALTH COAL CAUCUS COMMITTEE MEETING

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Cambria, Mr. Telek.

Mr. TELEK. This will be short. The Commonwealth Coal Caucus Committee will meet tomorrow morning at 9:30 in the majority caucus room. This is a very important meeting.

REMARKS ON VOTE

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from York, Mr. Dorr.

MI. DORR. Mr. Speaker, my switch must have malfunctioned on amendment 7352 to HB 1191. I would like the record to show that 1 voted in the negative.

The SPEAKER. The remarks of the gentleman will be spread upon the record.


REPORT FROM RULES COMMITTEE I

BILLS REPORTED FROM COMMITTEE, CONSIDERED FIRST TIME. AND TABLED

HB 2351, PN 3068 (Unanimous)

By Rep. 'ORR An Act amending the "Pharmacy Act," approved September

27, 1961 (P. L. 1700, No. 6991, providing for deletion of the one year licensure requirement prior to licensure by reciprocity.

PROFESSIONAL LICENSURE.

SB 600, PN 1836 (Amended) By Rep. DORR

An Act regulating [he practice and licensure of occupational therapy, creating the State Board of Occupational Thcrapy Edu- cation and Licensure with certain powers and duties and prescribing penalties.


SB 1057, PN 1837 (Amended) By Rep. DORR

An Act amending the act of January 24, 1966 (1965 P. L. 1527, No. 533, entitled "Landscape Architects' Kegistration Law," further regulating the practice of landscape architecture; providing a repeal and providing penalties.


BILLS REMOVED FROM TABLE FOR CALENDAR

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, the Rules Committee has

instructed me to make a motion to remove the following bills

On the question, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to.

RESOLUTION REPORTED FROM COMMITTEE

HR PN 3064 (Concurrent) By Rep. HAYES

General Assembly urges Department of Interior work on options to extinguish or control Centralia mine fire.

RULES.

SENATE MESSAGE

AMENDED HOUSE BILLS RETURNED FOR CONCURRENCE

The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, returned HB 223, PN 3133; HB 758. PN 3160; HB 1284, PN 3113; and HB 1575, PN 3179, with information that the Senate has passed the same with amendment in which the concurrence of the H~~~~ of ~~~~~~~~~~~i~~~ is requested,

Thc SPEAKER. The bills will appear on the calendar.

from the table and place them on the active calendar, and I so move:

HB 1340, PN 3134; HB 2304, PN 2995; HB 2351, P N 3068; HB 2370, PN 3139; SB ' 563, PN IRIO; SB 939, PN 1817; and SB 1300, PN 1818.

O n the auestion Will the House agree t o the motion? Motion was agreed to.

BILLS REMOVED FROM TABLE FOR CALENDAR

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the majority leader. Mr. HAYES. Mr. Speaker, the Rules Committee has

instructed me to make a motion to remove the following bills from the table and place them on the active calendar, with the understanding that they will be rereferred to the Appropri- ations Committee for the purpose of a fiscal note at a later date, and I so move:

SB 600, PN 1277; and SB 1057, P N 1549.

SENATE MESSAGE

HOUSE BlLL CONCURRED IN BY SENATE

The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, returned HB 1351, PN 1510, with information that the Senate has passed the same without amendment.

SENATE MESSAGE

SENATE ADOPTS REPORT OF COMMITTEE O F CONFERENCE

The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, informed tha! the Senate has adopted the Report of the Committee o f Con- ference on the subject of the differences existing between the two Houses on HB 671, PN 2975.

SENATE MESSAGE

HOUSE-AMENDED SENATE BlLL CONCURRED IN

The clerk of the Senate, being introduced, informed that the Senate has concurred in the amendments made by the House of Representatives t o SB 1122, PN 1739.

BILLS SIGNED BY SPEAKER

The Chair gave notice that he was about to sign the following bills, which were then signed:

HB 671, PN 2975

An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Penn- sylvania Consolidated Statutes, adding an offense and providing a penalty.


HB 1351. PN 1510 I The following communication was read:

An Act selecting, designating and adopting milk as the official Commonwealth of Pennsylvania beveraeeof the Commonwealth of Pennsvlvania. Pennsylvania State Police

An Act authorizing the Department of Environmental Resources to reimburse cooperating counties for a portion of each county's costs incurred under State-County-Federal gypsy moth programs and out o l a Federal Augmentation appropriation made to the department.

COMMUNICATION FROM DEPARTMENT OF PUBLIC WELFARE

The SPEAKER. The Chair acknowledges receipl o f a communication dated April 14, 1982, from the Secretary o f the Department of Public Welfare, which will be made part of the record.

The followine communication was read:

Commonwealth of Pennsylvania Department of Public Welfaru

April 14, 19x2

Dear Legislator:

I enclose for your information the sixth annual Child Abuse R e ~ o r t 01 the Deaartment of Public Welfare, prepared as

1800 Elmerton Avenue Harrisburg, PA 17120

April 13, 1982

The Honorable Matthew J . Ryan Speaker of the House Pennsylvania House of Representatives Hou\e. Post Office Main Capitol Harrisburg, PA 17120

Dear Representative Ryan:

In compliance with the mandate contained in Section 9 of the Arson Reporting Immunity Act (No. 1980-89, 1 respectfully submit this report to the General Assembly regarding the legality, feasibiliry, advisability and manner, if any, of providing investigatory material to insurance companies.

The results of my inquiry into this matter lead me to conclude that investigator" material should remain under the control of the law enforcemen; community and Act 1980-85 should not be amended to allow insurance companies access to investigatory material.

Very truly yours, Daniel F. Dunn Commissioner

cc: Senator Henry C . Hager

increase of 6 percent over 1980. There was also a substantial increase in abuse-related deaths in 1981: 45 children died as a result of child abuse; 40 of these children were preschoolers. This compares with a total of 29 abuse-related dcaths reported in 1980.

Notwithstanding these sobering statistics, the increase in sub-

required by the child Protective Services Law 01 1975. During 1981, 13,703 incidents 01 suspected child abuse in

Pennsylvania, were reported - a I percent increase over the 13,570 suspected cases reported in 1980. However the number of substantiated reports of child abuse last year - 4,689 - was an

stantiated cases, as compared to report5 of suspected abuse, suggests that the quality of child abuse reporting and identification continues to improve. And county children and youth agencies investigated a greater number of cases in 1981, despite an 1 1

President Pro Tempore

(Copy o f report is on file with the Journal clerk.)

BILLS AND RESOLUTIONS PASSED OVER

percent decrease in available funds. The improved quality of reporting and investigation, however,

only clarifies the magnitude of a problem that must he addressed through more effective education and preventative and rehabili- tative programs.

Although we now reporr dimensions of the child abuse problem more accurately, the problem itself perbists and grows. A strong determination and effective coordination of effort among state, county, and private levels is essential to combat this increasine victimization of children - societv's most critical resource for tomorrow.

Sincerely yours, Helen B. O'Bannon

(Copy of report is on file with the Journal clerk.)

COMMUNICATION FROM PENNSYLVANIA STATE POLICE

The SPEAKER. Without objection, all remaining bills and resolutions on today's calendar will be passed over. The Chair hears none.

ADJOURNMENT

The SPEAKER. The Chair recognizes the gentleman from Montgomery, Mr. Daikeler.

Mr. DAIKELER. Mr. Speaker, I move that this House d o now adjourn until Tuesday, April 20, 1982, at l l a.m., e.s.1.

On thequestion, Will the House agree to the motion? Motion was agreed to, and at 6:26 p.m., e.s.1.. the House

adjourned.

The SPEAKER. The Chair gives notice it has received a communication from Daniel F. Dunn, commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police, dated April 13, 1982, which will be made part of the record.

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