bitch media popaganda podcast: nerds

7/28/2019 Bitch Media Popaganda Podcast: Nerds

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BITCH MEDIA POPAGANDA PODCASTNERDS!

AIRED MAY 29, 2013

SARAH MIRK: This is Sarah Mirk and this is Popaganda, Bitch Media's feminist

response to pop culture podcast.

Thanks to our sponsor, She Bop, a women-owned sex toy boutique thatspecializes in body safe products and education. Check them out atsheboptheshop.com.

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If there's one maligned group in society that has transformed its image in the pastdecadejust oneI'd argue it's the nerds. We've moved from the idea of nerds

being unbearable, suspender-wearing whiz kids like Steve Urkle to nerds beingboth beloved and ubiquitous. It seems like everyone considers themselves anerd these days. You can be a comics nerd or a movie nerd or a politics nerd,we're all a nerd about something. And yet, there's still this gendered aspect tonerdery. Many groups of nerds like to be exclusive, they consider begin a nerdbeing a gatekeeper. In the world of technology and science and comic bookconventions, being a female nerd is still kind of big deal. Women still findourselves running up against barriers and snobby attitudes and sexism fromdudes who say, "We're the real nerds."

Today we'll talk about some of our favorite nerds in pop culture, talk with a

genuine comics nerd, discuss changing perceptions of nerds over time with oneof the organizers of Geek Girl Con. And, of course, no show about nerds iscomplete without a discussion of feminism in Star Trek. We've got that too.

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SARAH MIRK: First, we're going to start with a group discussion about, "What isa nerd?" I'm here in the studio with some distinguished guests.

[laughter]

ANDI ZEISLER: I'm Andi Zeisler, co-founder and editorial creative director ofBitch.

EMILLY PRADO: I'm Emilly Prado, aI'm the editorial intern at Bitch.

MIRK: What's the difference between a nerd, a geek, and a dork?

I think historically, we think of nerds as smart outcasts, whereas geeks are


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outcasts who are not smart. And then dorks are just beyond redemption. I don'tknow what dorks are, but it's not good. You don't want to be a dork, it's not good.Whereas with a nerd, it's kind cool.

PRADO: I think with a nerd or a geek, there's an interest in something that's

counter culture, like D&D.

MIRK: I think of a nerd or a geek as someone who's into a specific thing. Sowhether you're a film nerd or a movie nerd, you're very knowledgable on it, and itbecomes a cool thing.

ZEISLER: And we need to talk about they way intellectual capital has reallyexpanded in coolness over the past several decades. When I was growing up inthe eighties, nerd was this outcast who had to redeem him or herself. Revenge ofthe Nerds was a big movie. Now it's become very much of a nerd society, wherepeople actively want to identify as nerds.

MIRK: Nerds have money, nerds have power. Let's talk about some of ourfavorite nerds.

PRADO: My favorite nerd is Bill Haverchuck, from Freaks and Geeks. In Freaksand Geeks, you've got Bill, Sam, and Neil, each has their own niche of nerdom,but Bill really shines because he's really not trying hard.

ZEISLER; With the other two, you get the impression that the other two are goingto outgrow their nerdery, but Bill is just not. But that makes him all the morerealistic and that makes you love him more.

MIRK: I think my favorite nerd in high school was Daria. She's probably myfavorite, just because I was so surprised to see a character like her on TV. Asmart, funny, dry female character who's got awesome artsy friends who didn'tcare about being cool, she's a nerd because she's really into books and readingand hates high school. I'm not nearly a dark or combat boot friendly as she is, butI was also not that into being in high school and I connected with her in a bigway.

ZEISLER: I think 80s teen movies are a real wealth of nerd characterizations. Ifeel real affection for all the characters in this movie, but Real Genius. It's set at ahotbed of neediness, a science college, and there's this one girl nerd Jordan,who is really lovable. She's not apologizing for who she is, she is very smart andwithin her environment is very well liked, but is very much against the 80s ideal ofthe blonde prom queen, or someone who secretly aspired to be that. She justdidn't care. After the 80s, we got a lot more nuanced characterizations of nerds,like there wasn't the automatic separation from the popular kids. Think of GilmoreGirlsLane Kim and Paris Geller were characters who were very deeply nerds,but they weren't outcasts, they're very entrenched in the social fabric of their


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schools and their communities.

MIRK: i think the best example of that these days is Leslie Knope from Parks andRec, who is both a super nerd and in charge of everything. She's at the top of theheap, and yet a central part of her character is that she's obsessed with public

process. She's both a popular girl and a nerd. You know who changed my lifegrowing up was the character from Jurassic Park, Dr.Ellie Satler, who was a nerd, but itwas never really a big deal. She's got an amazing career as an archaolgoist and knew a lot

about plants, but it was never demeaned or diminished. It was actually cool and sexy that

she knew so much about, like, ethnobotany. I think that character is why I developed alifelong love of science and spent my summers in high school working as a volunteer

archaeologist. Which, uh, I can definitely say I was a nerd in school because of that.

[laughter]

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MIRK: One of my new favorite comedy nerds is Phoebe Robinson, who I saw atBridgetown Comedy Fest here in Portland and who runs the blog Blaria, the Black Daria.

Thanks for joining us on the show, Phoebe.

PHOEBE ROBINSON: Thanks for having me!

MIRK: A lot of your work that I've seen relates to being a nerd and nerd culture. What

are your favorite aspects of nerd culture and how do you feel like you're a part of it or

not?

ROBINSON: The thing I like about nerd culture is it just owns it. I'm very into cultures

in general that say, "This is who I am," and just embraces it.

MIRK: Do you consider yourself a comedy nerd?

ROBINSON: I try to watch every comedy special that comes on TV.

MIRK: That's a lot of comedy specials.

ROBINSON: Yeah, it's a lot. And when i do shows, a lot of people don't like to watcheveryone who performs, but I do. I've been doing it for five years and I never get tired of

watching other people perform. I listen to stand-up tapes on my way to work. I try to

learn as much as I can because I never wanted to be a stand-up comedian, so I feel like I

have to play catch up to people who knew from, like, age 5 that they wanted to be stand

up comedians and what they did their whole lives, i"m trying to cram into five years. Idefinitely do obsess.

When you're watching comedy shows and listening to stand up tapes, do you get

analytical about it, or do you just get swept up in it?

ROBINSON: I get swept up in it, but once it's over I'll analyze and think about it. When

I'm listening to it, I try to listen to it just like an audience member. But in person, I'm like


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half and half. I'll look at the audience and see how they're laughing, if it's edgier material,

I'll pay attention to how a comic will do crowd work and dovetail that into a joke they

want to talk about, or they'll have to step off a joke to address something else, then get

back into it. Those kind of things, I pay attention to in person.

MIRK: How do you prepare your own set? Do you prepare things and then tear them

apart and put them back together, or are you more loose?

When i was first getting started, I was very rigid. I would write everything out, then

memorize it in front of the mirror, just recite it. Now, I'll hand write a joke, then I'll

memorize it enough that if I got off track, I could get back on track. I always allow roomto riff, to get sidetracked and see what else works. It's looser and i have more fun writing

because it's not like, "If I say 'the' here, but not here, the joke is ruined.'" Memorizing

your jokes are pretty much all you have control over. Like, you're funny, but you don't

necessarily know why you're funny. Your voice isn't defined yet, so you say, 'Oh, that

joke was great, but I don't know how to make another joke like that.;

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MIRK: Once a year, downtown Seattle overflows with women who identify as nerds. Anannual convention called Geek Girl Con draws hundreds of people to the city. I called up

Geek Girl Con staffer Raychelle Burks, to talk about the conference and perceptions of

nerds.

Do you think perceptions of female nerds have changed since the time when you were

growing up?

RAYCHELLE BURKS: Oh, when I was in high school, being a nerd was a bitderogatory. It wasn't a positive thing. It meant you weren't popular. So today I think the

perception has changed. As far as gender issues and race issues within nerddom, womenhaving to provide bonfires of how nerdy you are, so you're not a fake nerd.

MIRK: It's funny, because all nerds are into out-herding each other. Who knows moreabout Star Wars? Who has the definitive opinion on Ravenclaw vs. Hufflepuff? But it

feels different to me as a woman, and I'm sure it feels different to you as a black woman,

feeling like I have to prove I'm a nerd because I'm female. That kind of proving feels

different.

BURKS: Very much so. There's the natural competitiveness. We both know that you can

have nerd-offs almost. How nerdy are you? But it's totally different that you ever 'shouldbe here.' That you are even in the realm of being a nerd. And so I think that's a

completely different thing. The kind of a great thing about Geek Girl Con is you walkinto a place and there is no feeling out of place, there is no feeling that people are lookingat me like I shouldn't be here, that people are looking at me and I need to impress them

with my neediness. Everyone is a nerd in their own way and there doesn't seem to be this,

you need to prove how much of a dork you are. With the mission, the staff, is to make itas inclusive as possible for all types of people for all areas. Someone just asked Will

Wheaton at a con recently, What does it mean to be a nerd? And he answered, I'm

paraphrasing, It's the way you love something, being passionate about whatever this


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thing is and you want to be with like-minded people and get into it. It's a really broad

approach to neediness, but it's reflective of what Geek Girl Con is about. It's a position of

privilege when just by being male, no one's going to say, Really? You're a nerd? ButI've definitely felt like, I need to prove that I'm a nerd, that I'm a fan of Battlestar

Galatica.

MIRK: That was Raychelle Burks. Check out the convention yourself at

GeekGirlCon.com.

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SARAH MIRK:What happens when a music nerd goes to college and falls in love with

academia? We have this story, from Yale lecturer Alison McCade.

MCCABE: My mother grew up dirt poor in Philadelphia. She dreamt of marrying up and

out and realizing her lifelong fantasy of becoming a Jewish-American princess. Insteadshe married my father and became addicted to diet pills. I fell in love with rock n roll. As

I stumbled awkwardly towards adolescence, my mother emerged from her dexotrim

induced haze, doubling down on her goal of upward mobility. Step one: transforming me

from a miniature Joan Jett into a marriageable Jennifer Grey. Step two: launching ahighly lucrative bar and batmitzvah theme party business. When I refused to give up

guitar and black coal eyeliner, my mother forced me to work in a dumpy craft store so at

least she could get a discount on Styrofoam. Thats where I met Lisa Berkowitz. Lisasparents divorce meant transferring to Northeast High, a school so awful we took a vow of

truancy. But Lisa and I werent your typical dropouts. We were hardcore rock nerds,

completely convinced that rockstardom was our ticket out of Philly, just as it had freed

Bob Dylan from Hibbing and Janis Joplin from Port Arthur. So while the other 748students in our graduating class prepared for careers in office cubicles, fast food kitchens

and shopping malls, Lisa and I spent our days parked in front of MTV, studying for our

parts. But, we were also drinking our way through her mothers liquor cabinet andsmoking her day through her endless stash of weed. In other words, partying like rock

stars without getting around to forming the amazing band that might have made us rock

stars. One day Id had enough. I rode the L past the office where Id been working as adata entry operator to the central branch of the public library. Stumbling upon its vast

collection of college guides, I discovered an alternative escape route: Hampshire College.

A school in Massachussetts that didnt consider SAT scores, require majors, or assigngrades. My only cultural reference point for New England was Red Lobster, but I started

fantasizing about running away to the Shangri La, starting my life over, becoming

someone else. Miraculously, I got in, and I left town never to be seen or heard from

again, or so I thought. When I arrived at Hampshire, everyone was studying gender

theory, and the fields rock stars played to standing room only crowds. There werefanzines, trading cards, even collectible action figuresnot to mention groupies. Seeing

this I thought I found my second calling, and I immediately traded my fender for a

Foucault. I played my first conference while I was still an undergrad, scored my first hitsingle in the top journal while I was still in grad school. Nothing could have prepared me

for the impending collapse of the job market, or the fact that my doctoral program was so

cutting-edge, it was cut. I ended up at Yale of all places, where I was hired to teach aglorified version of freshman comp. I thought Id stay on a year or two, but I ended up


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staying 10 years. I got promoted, got to teach more advanced writing courses, but at 40, I

was not a gender theorist or a rock star. I was just a nerd. One afternoon, I was riding

Metro north and I saw a poster for a reality show starring Tony Danza as a newly mintedEnglish teacher whod come to a struggling urban high school to save the children. As

soon as I realized Danza was at Northeast, my memories came rushing back. I thought

about Lisa, and wondered what became of her, and all the stuff one thinks about whenone is barely hiding ones midlife crisis. Hoping to leverage a reunion with Lisa, I calledthe principal and got myself invited back to Northeast. I found Lisas number on the

Internet and left a message asking her to call. But Lisa didnt call, and it felt crazy to be

back in Philly. The old neighborhood had gone down the tubes, and so had the school.There were airport screening machines by the front door, students were forced to wear

uniforms, have their movements tracked by electronic ID cards. There was even a

suspension trailer in the parking lot. At the end of my tour, the principal deposited me in

a classroom to inspire the quote-unquote college-bound students with my success story.But I looked out the window, past the patchy dead grass and rusted chainlink fences, and

offin the distance I could see Lisas old apartment. Thats when I knew Id have to find

another way to bridge the distance between who I was, and who I hadbecome. [music]SARAH MIRK: The top movie in America this month is a nerd spectacular: the newestiteration of the Star Trek franchise, Star Trek: Into Darkness. Here to discuss the sci-fi

series is Zack, a semi-anonymous zinester, whose zine A field guide to the aliens of Star

Trek: Next Generation, is pure gold.

SARAH MIRK: Were gonna talk about feminism in the show, and actually theres a lot

thats been written about this already. And people who are into Star Trek are alwaysreally into telling me that Star Trek is all about equality. And that its really one of the

most progressive shows ever written and ever created. And you can really see that from a

racial standpoint, that this is one of the first shows that had characters of color right in thespotlight.

ZACK: Kind of, yeah.

SARAH MIRK: Whats your take on feminism in the show? Do people talk as much

about Star Trek being a feminist show as they do about it promoting equality in general?

ZACK: Well, it definitely got better after awhile. Original Star Trek really just had

Uhura. Star Trek: Next Generation had two main female cast members, but they were

both in nurturing roles, you had the doctor and the counselor. And the counselor ran

around in a little jumpsuit, and it was ridiculous. And then you had Deep Space 9 where

you had a science officer who was a woman, and the first officer who was also a formerterrorist. And I thought that was awesome, Deep Space 9 did a great job. Voyager you

had a female captain, which was in theory great even though she was basically MargaretThatcher as captain of a Starfleet vessel, and you had a female engineering officer, and

you had a female nurse, who was basically the manic-pixie dream girl of Star Trek. And

so they got rid of her, and replaced her with sort of this weird Aryan dominatrix in Seven-

of-Nine.


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SARAH MIRK: So it went from having only one female character, Uhura, to nurturing

female charactersand this is over the course of what, three decades?

ZACK: Um longer than that, because 67 until four decades? Many years.

SARAH MIRK: What changed about the show? Why do you think that Star Treks

writers and directors started changing the roles of female characters in the show?

ZACK: A fair amount of it had to do with Gene Roddenberry dying. Roddenberry, for the

good things about him, was kind of a sexist, philandering jerk. As progressive as StarTrek was, Star Trek is kind of like, your friend who says, I dont I dont see race, I

dont see color, I just see people. You wanna give them points for that, for not being

super racist, but at the same time, there are a lot of ways that Star Trek is still pretty

racist, and still has a long way to go.

SARAH MIRK: So, is Gene Roddenberry that jerky friend, or is all of Star Trek that

jerky friend?

ZACK: All of Star Trek is that jerky friend. Gene Roddenberry was the early jerkyfriend, and then the other jerky friends took over for him.

SARAH MIRK: When you were watching the show growing up, did you think about

gender? Did you think about the role of female characters on the show?

ZACK: I did, yeah. Especially when they added in the Aryan dominatrix woman. I was

like, All right, Im done with this show, I cant. That was what made me stop watching

Star Trek, as a kid.

SARAH MIRK: So it was plausible up until that point of the Aryan dominatrix?

ZACK: It wasnt an issue of plausibility, it was an issue of tolerability. As revolutionaryas it was to have Uhura, especially as a woman of color, being on the bridge, and not

being a maid on TV, she was still just a communications officer. Which at the time was

amazing. But on Next Generation, there were many times when Crusher basically had toread Picard the riot act. When Polaski took over for her in season two, shes presented as

somebody whos not gonna take any shit from Picard. And while most of, especially

Trois episodes had to do with romantic dalliances or being violated by aliens, Crushersepisodes generally were pretty good, it gave female characters a lot more agency on the

show.

SARAH MIRK: But it sounds like what you were saying comparing Star Trek to that

person who claims to not notice gender, is that Star Trek maybe gets too much creditfor being progressive. In what ways do you find Star Trek to be still retro?

ZACK: If were looking at currentStar Trek, if were looking the last movie, its a very

sexist movie. The whole male gaze on Uhura, in the new movie, its like, how quickly

can we get her into her underpants?

SARAH MIRK: I think her very first scene is herif you havent seen the film


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ZACK: I think its her second scene, but yeah.

SARAH MIRK: The first scene is her kicking some ass, and the second scene is her

taking off her clothes, in her bed, not realizing that somebodys watching her.

ZACK: Kirks underneath the bed watching her. And then the trailer for the new movie,

depending on what trailer you watch, theres one of the trailers where its just like a stillphoto of a blonde woman in her underpants. Just for a second, thats all, its just herstanding there, arms up in the air. And thats it, its like, action, action, action, action,

underpants woman, action.

SARAH MIRK: Thank you so much Zack.

ZACK: Thank you.

SARAH MIRK: People cant find your zines online, but if theyre ever lucky enough to

come to Portland, they can find them at Floating World Comics, and Reading Frenzy.

Again, the name is A field guide to the aliens of Star Trek: Next Generation.

[music]

SARAH MIRK: And now for a second opinion Im talking with filmmaker Liz Lewis.

On the night of the Star Trek premiere, were actually sitting in the Star Trek book

section at Powells books.

LIZ LEWIS: Star Trek was a family tradition. I grew up with my Mom telling me aboutwhen she watched Star Trek: The Original Series with her brother, with TV trays. We

grew up every Saturday night having pizza and watching Star Trek: Next Generation.

SARAH MIRK: When you were watching the show, did you think about gender, did you

think about feminism and sexuality? Or was it not even on your radar when you were akid?

LEWIS: Well, when I was a kid I was pretty nave, so I dont think I was thinking about

it directly, but I was fascinated by the female characters on Star Trek. Deanna Troi was

so amazing to me, I loved her so much. I dont know whether it was because I wanted to

be her, or just because I was in love with her, but she was amazing to me.

SARAH MIRK: Looking back on the show now when you watch it, are you sort of

mortified that you thought that, or do you still think shes pretty awesome?

LEWIS: I actually spent last year re-watching all of Next Generation, and was thinking

about these issues again as I was watching it. And at some points I was totallyembarrassed and just ashamed of that character, and how they wrote her. But that was

more rare than the times that I was really happy with her, and that I saw her be a strongwoman. And I saw her feminine traits celebrated, instead of disparaged. She was

sensitive and she was emotional, but thats how she contributed to the crew, thats how

she was a strong member of the crew. I think that was a good message for me as a kid,

that I wasnt aware of but that was there for me.


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SARAH MIRK: She was doing these traditionally female roles, she was a nurturer, she

was a caretaker, but you saw it as a good thing, that shes celebrating that sort of

femininity.

LEWIS: Absolutely. She saved the crew, over and over again, by being sensitive to

whatever alien race they encountered. She was the one that told them Oh wait, wait,theyre not trying to kill us! or Oh wait, wait, they aretrying to kill us! And that saved

their ass so many times! And I think that does teach young women and did teach me that

its okay to have these traits, its okay to be sensitive. It can definitely be a strength, and I

think it is a strength that I grew up perfecting and having.

SARAH MIRK: Lets talk about Uhura. Did you like Uhura, growing up? What did you

think of her role in the original series versus in the current film?

LEWIS: So I didnt really encounter Uhura until I was older, I didnt watch the original

series as a kid. So of course when I went back and watched it, probably in my teens or

early twenties, I was kind of surprised by her itty-bitty tiny skirt. But I was also

impressed because she was an integral part of the crew and she did get to be important,and she wasnt just a pretty thing, she actually contributed. Although not nearly as much

as she would have if she was in the Next Generation series. But she was still there.

SARAH MIRK: How do you think watching Star Trek, and being a Star Trek nerd

growing up, influenced your thinking about gender and your thinking about feminism?

LEWIS: I feel like Star Trek: Next Generation taught me what the grain of salt is in oursociety. The women in Star Trek, theyre strong, theyre in roles of leadership, they take

charge, theyre all those great positive qualities, but theyre also the nurturers, theyre the

doctor, theyre the counselor, theyre the bartender that you listen to and kind of mothers

you through difficult situations. They arent necessarily the strong go-get-em

adventurers, theyre usually pretty cautious and nervous and maybe question themselvesa lot, and I feel like thats a grain of salt that I expect, and I think that is because of Star

Trek: Next Generation and the other media I watched growing up. And so I think StarTrek can be good because it has these women in strong roles, but it also teaches women

that they still need to fit into the sexy-caregiver role. Because dont get me wrong, the

Star Trek female characters, theyre sexy, and their outfits are sexier than the mens

outfits, come on. Lets not kid ourselves.

SARAH MIRK: Do you consider yourself a Star Trek nerd? Or do you try to sort of play

it cool when youre talking about Star Trek?

LEWIS: I have no qualms. I am not playing it cool at all, I am a Trekkieactually

technically the term would be Trekker, because I joined at Next Generation level, rather

the Original Series.

SARAH MIRK: Its a very important distinction.

LEWIS: Incredibly important. So absolutely, total nerd about it.

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