being a student of vedanta bede

8/12/2019 Being a Student of Vedanta Bede

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Being a student

of Vedanta

Bede Clifford


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InhoudBeing a Student of Vedanta Part 1 ..................................................................... 2

Being a Student of Vedanta Part 2 ...................................................................... 7

Being a student of Vedanta part 3 ..................................................................... 12

Being a Student of Vedanta Part 4 .................................................................... 18




Being a student of Vedanta part 8 ..................................................................... 45


Part 1 Conversations ............................................................................................. 56







Part 8 conversations ............................................................................................. 89

Part 9 conversations ............................................................................................ 90


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Being a Student of Vedanta PartEverything that happens in our lives has a meaning to

us. When we are loved, that means something to us.

When we are hated, this hatred has a different meaning

to us than when we are loved. So everything that we see

has a meaning for us. Now here is the thing. What

determines how we understand ourselves, other people

and our world? Obviously everything that happens to us

means something to us. We go I like that.Or I dont

like that or I am indifferent to that. Before we make

conclusions like these we have ascertained what the

event or person means to us. When someone says that

rotten person did a horrible thing. That person is

communicating the meaning that that person has for

them. But again here is the interesting question. What

determines the meaning? If you asked the person who

thinks that the person is rotten why they think that way

they will tell you that it is because of what they have


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done. This sounds reasonable however this is not the

determining factor that determines the meaning you

have about the things that happen to you. Another

factor remains hidden in the background.

Let us say that I told you about a guy who ripped open

another guys belly with a knife. Now that means

something to you straight away. You probably wont like

the guy because you dont like violent actions like that.

But what if you found out that the guy was a young

surgeon trying to save anothers life under enemy fire.

Now the same event has an entirely different meaning

for you. You see it differently. Now the point we need to

take from this is this. THE CONTEXT FROM WHICH WE

LOOK AT PEOPLE AND EVENTS DETERMINES THE MEANING

THAT PEOPLE AND ENVENTS HAVE FOR US.


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The oxford dictionary defines context in this way.

Context: the circumstances that form the setting for an

event, statement, or idea, and in terms of which it can

be fully understood

this is a good definition but we are going to modify it

slightly for our Vedantic our purposes here

Context: the standpoint that forms the setting for an

event, statement, or idea, in terms of which the event,

statement, or idea is understood.

When you found out that the setting was a battlefield

and the guy was a surgeon there was a sudden context

shift which transformed your cognition of the event.

Within this context and only within this context could

you understand this event in the right way? This shifting


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of our way of seeing or cognising Swami Dayananda

gives the term cognitive shift.

Now you may be thinking Bede has gone of on a

tangent. This is supposed to be about Vedanta. In fact it

is about the most important thing for us as students of

Vedanta. The most important thing for us as students of

Vedanta is to study Vedanta from the right context. If

we fail to do this we will not understand the teaching in

the right way. We will understand it in our way.

My teacher early on in my Vedantic studies made it very

clear that there was only one context and one context

alone that Vedanta can be understood. If we dont study

from WITHIN this context Vedanta will have a meaning

for us but not the one intended by the scriptures. We will

be wasting our time. Everything we hear will be taken in

the wrong way. This was very important thing for me to


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understand and I wish to share this with my fellow

students. I will do it in parts so I can go step by step. I

just wanted to set the context first so you would

understand me in the right way.


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Being a Student of Vedanta Part 2When I first meet up with Swamini Atmaprakasananda

on skype I asked her why there was suffering. I didn't say

why am I suffering that was too close. I wanted to

know what she would say. I had never talked to a guru

before and it was embarrassing to ask. In the past I had

rubbished people who needed them. It seemed to me like

weakness. Swamini said the following. the reason people

suffer is that that are dependant of people and things

for their happiness. Because I had lost most of the

things I depended on for my happiness and was

suffering extremely as a result what she said made

complete sense. She also said in this first conversation

people and things never hurt us they are just

instrumental in revealing the pain that is already with

us. This understanding is the beginning of emotional


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and a whole lifetime of the presence of objects CAUSING

me pain. Swamini was making it very clear that

blaming was not only futile but incorrect. What was

causing my pain was my dependence.

Until I met this Vedanta teacher I lived entirely in the

context of a world of objects (people and conditions)

that were giving me happiness or taking it away. All I

wanted was the happenings of the universe to line up

with what I wanted so I could be happy. Because if it did

not I was very unhappy. I also knew that the fault lay

with the universe not me. I looked at the world and

drew a big line down the middle. I put all the things

that MADE me happy on the left hand side and put all

the things that MADE me unhappy on the right hand

side. Then I built my life around staying on the left

hand side because my happiness depended on staying

on that side. This context WITHIN which I lived


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determined entirely how I lived in the world and what

everything that happened meant to me. My way of seeing

was determined by this context and the way I lived in

my world came out of this way of seeing. My living in my

world was my way of seeing the world in action. Any

efforts to improve myself was like rearranging the chairs

on the Titanic. It seemed like I was doing something but

it was all done within the same context that was the

problem. So the same old suffering in new forms kept on

appearing no matter what I did.

This iswhat we call samsara- the dependence upon

another person, another situation, for your own sense of

well-being Swami Dayananda.

Before my conversation with Swamini I thought like the

Buddhists that life was samasra. Life was suffering.

Something was wrong with life because it was suffering.


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From appearances this seemed to be very true. But this

was not was being said here. This teacher was saying

that my dependence on objects was MY problem. This

made me wrong of course but at the same time I knew

that if the problem lay with me and not the world maybe

something radical (going to the root) might be able to

take place in my life. I felt I was beginning something.

8I just didn't know what it was. Even though she was

saying was very tough she was very kind at the same

time which enabled me to take on board what she was

saying. Something within me knew that the problem lay

with me in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.


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What was being suggested here was that there was a

sense of well being (security, peace and happiness) that

stands alone in and as itself. A well being which is

unshakable in the face of any circumstance even such

extreme extreme ones like failure, social rejection,

imprisonment, the physical pain of sickness and the fact

of and experience of death. A well being which could not

be acquired by effort but was ever present as the truth of

myself. It was also pointed out that the only distance

between myself and this absolute freedom was

ignorance. Not the world. Not other people. Not even

myself. There was something very important I was not

seeing and the only solution was seeing it.

I didn't even recognise the existential condition of

samsara let alone have any notions of its solution. I just

wanted to be happy. Freedom from dependence was not


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my issue. My emotional upsets and unhappiness lay with

things other than my self. The relief from these things

also lay with things other than myself. At the time this

basic conclusion or notion seemed fairly obvious. This

was my entrenched standpoint on life. This was the

context in which I lived moved and had my being but

it as a context was entirely hidden from me though it

determined entirely how I lived in the world. .

This was my first encounter with the standpoint of the

Vedanta scriptures. They were scriptures that werent

telling me what to do but rather what to see. Frankly

from my Christian Judaic background scriptures used in

this way is unknown. In the light of this scripture I could

see myself and my situation in an entirely different way.

From my own standpoint life looked one way. From the

standpoint of the Vedantic scriptures it looked entirely

different. I did not know I was seeing my life in the light


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before we talked. I knew I had finally come across

something good. Looking back I had no idea what I was

getting myself into.


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Being a Student of Vedanta Part 4note:This is part of a series. For understanding please

make sure you have read the previous ones with the

same title and in order from part one.

When we talk about depending on the scriptures we

really need to see what this really means. Swamini told

me that the scriptures are like a mother. They look after

us. This was strange to me because I was brought up

Roman Catholic and it was more of a weapon of

coercion to keep me in line. The threat of hell fire and

and the rules to obey to avoid it were contained in the

scriptures.

The idea that the scriptures were a way of seeing was an

entirely new thing for me. One such way of seeing was

that behind all my suffering was my dependence on

people and situations for my happiness. We can easily


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accept this as a philosophical proposition where we agree

with it or not based on our intellectual background. But

agreement is not seeing in the Vedantic sense. Because

mental agreement is not based on listening, awareness

and discrimination it is simply a mental reaction. If I

said to you I think the republican party is the best party

to run the country you will find agreement or

disagreement will arise automatically without

awareness or our faculty of discrimination coming into

play. I could say you are the Self, distinct from the mind

body complex and give you the reasoning behind this

and you can agree with it or not depending on your

intellectual or religious background. The Vedantic

vision arises entirely from a different context than these

mental reactions of agreement.

What I started to do after that first phone call was

whenever I noticed myself getting upset I would pause


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and consciously and deliberately look at the situation

from the scriptural standpoint that this suffering was a

result of my dependence on people or things for my

happiness. Now you can't do this sort of practice without

committing to it. You won't commit to it unless you see

the value of it. You won't see the value of it unless you

discover it. You won't discover it unless you see it. You

won't see it unless it is unfolded by someone who sees it

this way and helps you see it this way yourself. You also

need someone who knows how to unfold it in the right

way otherwise you won't see it in the first place. Once you

have seen it you have to actively depend on it if you wish

to establish this way of seeing in your life. What we are

looking at here is constantly shifting from looking at

our lives from our own standpoint , which SEEMS so true

and real, to looking at our life in the light of the

scriptures. If we do not depend on the scriptures this way

we will study Vedanta but continue to look at ourselves,


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riveted on them and what they have done. But here is

the thing. When we reawaken to the vision of the

scripture, right in the middle of our upsets this vision

gathers us up and lifts us beyond our upset. We are still

in the same situation but seeing it in an entirely

different light. Swami Dayananda calls this a cognitive

shift. The more we depend on the scriptures in this way

the more we live in the light of the Vedantic vision.

We can only learn by assimilating experience in the

light of the scriptures. To do this we have to rely on the

standpoint of the scripture to look at ourselves, others

and events. We still very much live in the world but from

an entirely different context. Try this. The next time you

are upset. Pause and consciously and deliberately recall

an understanding you were given in class that is

relevant to this present upset and look at this event in

the light of this understanding. Bear in mind you don't


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have to transform how you see this event because the

understanding you were given will do that. This is what

is meant by dependence. This understanding is a gift

from the lord and will lift you above your upsets if you

rely on it not yourself. I am going to say more about this

later . But at this point I just wanted to start on the

practical meaning of relying on the scriptures and how

valuable this is. There is nothing that beats practice so

long as it is the practice is in the context of

understanding.


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Being a Student of Vedanta Part 5

note:This is part of a series. For understanding please



One of the most interesting things that Swamini has

made clear to me is the growth of clarity and what it

involves. What we become clear about is ever present and

therefore beyond time. It is rather our clarity

concerning what is ever present that undergoes a

change and this change happens over time. Clarity of

vision does not just happen. Swamini talks about how as

we listen to the teaching layers of vagueness is removed

bit by bit. The range and the depth of our SEEING is what

is transformed not ourselves. What we are in reality does

not undergo any change it does not need to. Sunlight in


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the morning does not produce what is seen it just reveals

what is already there. The light becomes slowly evident

until it takes up all the room. This transformation of our

vision or our way of seeing is what Vedanta is all about.

As Swamini pointed out to me from the start. Vedanta is

a vision not a philosophy. Swami Dayanada uses the

analogy of a developing photo to describe the growing of

clarity from small beginnings to the total vision.

When I first met her I was confused and unhappy. I did

not know my problem was lack of clarity. I thought the

self that I took myself to be was the problem and I knew

all my efforts to fix it had failed and I had no hope of

any resolution. I did not just have despair as something

that existed by itself. I was suffering from self despair. My

life appeared to me as a very convincing tale told by

an idiot and as Swami Dayanada says we can't stand

being unacceptable to ourselves. I couldn't stand it but


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there was nothing I could DO about it. And you know

what I was about to find out that there was nothing I

could do about it. My problem was not that I was DOING

wrongly it was I was SEEING wrongly. This teacher had

no interest in fixing me she just proceeded to correct how

I saw myself, other people, the world and God. She really

did not see me as the problem.

The shift from struggling with myself and trying to

improve myself and my life to correcting how I was

seeing myself and my life was the real beginning of my

vedantic studies. Seeing the value of knowledge shifts

our lives into an entirely different context. It is our real

starting point as students of vedanta.


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When I asked Swamini about how do we know right from

wrong. She was unequivocal. You know what is right and

wrong but you don't know the value of doing the right

and avoiding the wrong. She also said that when you go

against your knowledge of right and wrong you become

split and become disturbed within your self and in

conflict with the environment.

As I found out, through our conversations in which she

clarified this whole issue, she was not talking about

being a nice person or being good at social relations.

Sociopaths and politicians have great social skills. What


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she was saying was that a life of dharma involved being

aware of each situation as it presented and responding

in ways that are terms of what needed to be done. What

she calls doing the needful with presence of mind.

A knowledge of right and wrong is an innate part of us

as an individual and as we relate ourselves to the world

in the light of this knowledge we come into harmony

with the whole. What was interesting to me here was that

by coming into harmony with the whole we come into

harmony with ourselves. Dharma is written into us. We

find it there. It is a dynamic ( has force and direction)

tendency within us. As Swamini says we don't have to go

to university to learn what is right or wrong. By making

our way of living conform to what we know to be right or

wrong, our way of living and our knowledge of right

and wrong become one complete unfragmented whole.

Our minds become relatively peaceful within themselves


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and our relation to other people and situations become

relatively free of conflict.

Later on after much difficultly with the God thing I

came to see that each situation was given to me by the

hand of the Lord and it was given as something to be

done or responded to. And that by offering my mind

and body in the service of that given task ,the best way I

could, was the life of a devotee. Swamini said this was

real devotion. This was not some form of religious

slavery but is a way to truly living in the world happily,

peacefully and responsively. This was not some external

code to be followed and obeyed. It was responsiveness in

terms of what is in our very best interests. I might feel

like (a desire)speaking in a harsh manner to my spouse

because of real or imagined wrongs (aversion). But

when I do, my knowledge of right and wrong and my

way of living come into conflict and so I become


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disturbed within myself. Because talking in harsh ways

is an attack on my spouse I come into conflict with my

spouse. So here I am doing something that feels right to

do yet I cease to live happily with myself because I have

violated what is basic to myself as an individual (my

knowledge of right and wrong) and cease to live happily

and peacefully with others. This is really not in my best

interests. Swamini says when you protect dharma

dharma protects you. This I have found is a dependable

rule.

In the context of the Vedantic understanding of God,

everything has an entirely different meaning than in

the context of our desires and aversions. Our

understanding of God becomes the basis of a way of

living in the world characterised by graceful acceptance

and beneficial responsiveness. This is opposed to when

our desires and aversions are the basis of our way of


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craved for because in their presence we feel happy and

peaceful inside. This is why they are important to us and

desperately feel the need for them. These desperate

desires that we depend on for our happiness, Swami

Dayananda calls binding desires because we seem to be

held by them. But if we become relatively happy within

ourselves the desperate needs are neutralised because

they no longer have the same value because we already

have what they give. They become redundant.

Swamini helped we with a particular issue that I always

found difficult. I asked her how could I be happy in a

world where there was so much misery and pain. She

told me that if I was unhappy and miserable in myself I

would by necessity harm people. Looking back at my

harmful acts which have been many and varied I really

saw what she was saying was true. When I was unhappy

in myself certain things became inordinately important


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and I would tend to pursue them irrespective of the

harm to myself and others.

One thing for sure. I was going to have to learn to live

in the light of dharma not in the light of my desires and

aversions if I wished to live a happier and more peaceful

life. It was not like she was being moralistic and

threatening me with pain or damnation. None of that.

She was offering me a choice like if you go that way it

will not be in your best interests because you will fall off

the cliff and get smacked up. If you go this other way

that I am suggesting you won't fall, the trip will be

pleasant and will get pleasanter as you go along and

on top of that you will get to the same place you have

been trying to get to by the other way; being more

happier and peaceful within yourself.

Not much of a choice really is it?


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I was sitting down by a bus stop reading a a very

interesting book. There was an old person sitting next to

me. They tried to start up a conversation with me.

Somewhat hesitantly because indifference to their

existence is normal. I answered politely but then went

back to reading my book what was what I was interested

in doing.

God obtains in us in the form of dharma. I clearly was

given awareness of what was happening. I could sense

this person was lonely and wanted to talk. Also a clear

indication as to what be the most beneficial act which


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would meet was needed in the best way. What I needed

to do was also obtaining in me loud and clear. Give my

attention to this human being and talk with her. Also a

prompting obtained within me in the direction of this

needed responsiveness. What did I do. I continued to

read this very interesting book on Vedanta which by the

way was probably talking about dharma.

Now did I act impolitely. Not at all. Did I break social

convention. No. I was very polite. Is it a good thing to

read a Vedanta book. Of course it is. So here I was not

violating any social rules and doing my thing as is my

right. So in terms of social conventions, interpersonal

relations and my individual rights there is absolutely

no problem. However in the light of dharma, which is an

entirely different context from social conventions,

interpersonal relations and my personal liberties

(though it includes them all) my actions towards that


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of rules that we live by or try to live up to. It is an

awareness of the situation in terms of what needs to be

done and a beneficial responsiveness based on that

awareness. This involves doing the right and avoiding

the wrong. We know what is right and what is wrong.

This is the fundamental discrimination in living. We

are always aware of this but that does not mean we live

our lives in the light of this awareness.

I know if I am lonely it is nice to be able to talk to

someone. I did not learn this at university. I know how I

like to be treated by others. This knowledge is natural to

me. I also know that I don't want to be betrayed or

talked about behind my back in a bad way. I know this.

There is no uncertainty here. I know I want to be paid

back if I lend money. This is not a vague or uncertain

knowledge it is loud and clear. I know I don't wish to be

hurt. Because I know how I would like others to treat me


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I know that this is the best way to treat others.

If I was honest it is far more important for me that

others treat me in ways I like than to treat others in the

same way. I value this far more than I value treating

others in the same way. The hit man knows he would not

like to be shot. He is very clear on this. We know what is

the right way to treat others. Swamini says the scriptures

don't bother unfolding this knowledge to us because

there is no need. What the scriptures unfold to us is the

value of living in this way with others because if we

don't we become very unhappy within ourselves and

come into conflict with others and unavailable to the

teaching of Vedanta.

Once you understand the value of living a life of

dharma and commit to living you have to choose daily

what voice you will listen to. Dharma or our binding


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desires and aversions. This applies to every situation. We

know when we need to write an email that it would be

the best thing for us to do to do but but don't do it. We

don't follow the promptings of dharma in this situation

but rather we follow the promptings of our desires. Even

though this brings about a satisfaction it puts us at odds

with ourselves. We neglect to respond in the best possible

way. Like I neglected that old woman because I desired

to read a book even though the promptings of dharma

was loud and clear. What is important here is that all

these little things add up. Going against dharma builds

unhappiness into us. A feeling of rightness within

ourselves is not possible when we violate our awareness of

what is right and what is wrong. How can we be at peace

with ourselves be we are constantly building disturbance

within ourselves. Swami Dayananda says if you rub

against the law and order the law and order rubs

against you Even though I continued to read my


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Vedanta book I did not feel comfortable in myself.

Because I refused the promptings of dharma which

always obtain in me in a loud and clear way, I paid for

it by not feeling right within myself. Add up all the little

violations and they add up to a mind which is disturbed

within itself and it becomes full of desires for things that

we hope will remedy this unhappiness within ourselves.

When I started learning to live a life of dharma I

became very much aware how I loved doing my own

thing at the neglect of what the presenting moment

needed. When I would go out with my kids along time

ago when they were little I would sit with them in a cafe

with them reading a book. Doing my own thing was

more important than doing the needful in terms of what

the situation needed. I had no knowledge of the value of

serving the situation let alone the lord by offering what

was needed. I didn't have a relationship to others and


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we want to do what needs to be done. At this point we

have assimilated the value of living a life of values. He

also said at the beginning we will have a conflict

between what we want to do and what we need to do. In

this he is so right. When the lord appears in the form of

dishes to be done I often would like to do something else.

Do I serve him or myself. If I serve him it not self sacrifice

or being virtuous. This is the very best way to live as

evidenced by the improvement in the quality of our

mind and the way we live with others and the world.

This quality of mind is what we call a contemplative

disposition.

Without a contemplative disposition, which is the

disposition of mind that takes us home to ourselves as we

really are, we will not become established in the Vision

which frees us from self ignorance. The ground out of

which this disposition can arise is living a life of values.


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my reactions in which there was no fault finding and a

relation in which there was no resistance or refusal but

rather making room for whatever was there. I saw at

once this was not some sweetness and light spiritual

notion of love. I also knew it was important because

Swami Dayananda has made it very clear. If we can't

accommodate people totally the Vedantic vision will not

be available to us. I was in trouble. I was a chronic fault

finder in relation to myself, others and the world. I was

not willing to make room for a lot of things especially

things I found unpleasant and disagreed with.

Now just so we are clear it was not being suggested that I

like or agree with unpleasant facts. It was suggested

that I make room for these facts no matter how

disagreeable or unpleasant without friction or conflict.

I knew straight away that this was big and what she was

talking about was being in harmony with what is. It was


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strange. I would have said of course I want to live

peacefully and happily with others and the world. Well

the truth was I was only willing to have this non fault

finding relation which was accommodative with others

and the world when I found these others and the world

in ways that were peasant and agreeable.

When we are in friction or conflict our minds are

disturbed. When our minds are disturbed we react we

don't respond. Doing our duty (meeting situations in

the best possible way) requires responsiveness. Being in

harmony with what is no matter what that is is the

ground out of which responsiveness arises. Being in

harmony with what is produces a stable and clear

quality of mind. Being in friction or conflict with what

is produces a mind that is disturbed and not seeing

clearly. Here again was this very interesting idea that

the problem is not in our mind but in our relation to


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people and things other than ourselves which also

includes our psychological reactions because these are

also other these ourselves. This sort of emphasis was new

for me. I had always assumed the problem was in my

mind and if I could fix that everything would be honky

dorrie. But here what was being suggested was that my

problem was MY RELATION to people and things that was

the problem and this determined the quality of my

mind. What I was looking at now was what attitudes

did I hold that came between myself and my mind,

between myself and others and between myself and the

world. A fault finding non accommodating attitude

was always there between myself and others or between

myself and situations that I found unpleasant or

disagreeable.

Again the problem was not people and situations that

were causing my being in conflict with them or the


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unpeaceful quality of my mind. They were not to blame

even though often this seemed to me to be true. The

attitudes I held and held on to for dear life, that came

BETWEEN myself self and my mind, myself and others

and myself and situations were ensuring that I

constantly in conflict and friction. These attitudes were

determining the kind of relation I had with my

psychological reactions, with other people even the ones I

cared about and situations that kept cropping up again

and again. It was clear unless these attitudes were

replaced I could look forward to more of the same for

the rest of my life. Looking back on my life this was not a

good prospect.

I was starting to look at my life from a different light. A

very revealing light at that. This was revelation in a

real sense. It was not some Indian spiritual trip even

though I was talking to a very Indian looking teacher.


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It was not some new age peace and love philosophy it

was just a clear light which was enabling me to see

things that have always been with me but that I never

saw. Thankfully it did not come from me. Rather it was

given. It was a blessing and so was this teacher who was

unfolding it to me. I have a lot more to say about non

fault finding accommodation because it is for me the

value of it is one of the most important discoveries I have

ever made. Because of this I wish to go into a lot of

detail about it which I will do in the next few parts. I

just wanted to set up the ground work.


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All my life a had thought of my mind as something

within me and the world as something outside of me. All

through my formal training as a psychotherapist was

the idea that the problem lay with the mind. The work of

Freud, which is brilliant in my opinion, especially his

work on ego defences and unconscious forces exerting

influences on our conscious life is a major achievement

of Western thinking. However the premise is that the

problem is within the mind and this is where the

solution is to be found. Modern cognitive psychotherapy

say that the problem lies in cognitive distortions or

irrational thinking and if these can be changed or


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removed this is the solution. Again the problem is in the

mind which is on the inside and if this can be fixed the

then the persons emotional responses and behaviour will

improve. The behaviourist psychologists think that

unhelpful behaviour is the problem and if that can be

modified and people get better behavioural outcomes

this is a better direction to go. This means that the

behaviour patterns which are within the individual are

what need to be dealt with. I could go on but the

premise is always the same. The problem is inside the

individual and there is where the solution is to be

found.

Vedanta views all this in a new and extraordinary

light. It starts with the individual in the universe and

that the universe and the individual are different. Well

this is nothing new. But here is the thing. In the

Vedantic vision the mind and all its contents are part of


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asked Swamini in exasperation what are you telling me

that all the killing and violence in Iraq is the Lord? She

said of course it is the Lord I was stunned. I did not

know what to say. I thought to myself why am I

listening to this woman who could have such a strange

idea It just seemed so outrageous. EVERYTHING WAS

GOD. WHAT SHE WAS SUGGESTING WAS EVERYTHING WAS

GOD. My Christian Judaic notions of God started to

rattle and jump around in my head. What really

exasperated me was the matter of fact tone she said it. As

if it was a plain fact that could be seen by anybody. Well

I was not anybody. However her disarming manner

allowed me to at least consider it. She was so clear on

other things I could not dismiss it out of hand. The idea

seemed mad on one hand but made sense on another.

Everything was given. Everything was in order.

Everything was out of my hands except choice over


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action. Everything was God which included me as an

individual. Talk about clashing against all my basic

assumptions about myself, the world and God. Was it

going to get worse. It certainly was!!!!


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Part 2 Conversationsoo 16 peoplelike this.o

shwani Kr Lodhi RajputVery interesting. Plz keep it on.thanks a lot for sharing.

June 7 at 11:17amviamobileLike

oShanta SankaranWe know that we lean on the outsideworld and people but dont like giving that up. It iswonderful how you bring a modern context andreasoning for Uparati.

June 7 at 12:28pmLike2

oshwin KhambadkoneThis is insightful;

Samsara=dependence upon another person, anothersituation for validation of own sense of well being.Therefore, it follows, freedom is being free from thisneed.

June 7 at 1:50pm

Edited

Like

2

oSudha JayagopalSomewhere down the line we all cometo realise this. But realisation and acceptance is onething, and working on it entirely another cup of tea..not easy as it leaves very little else for one to lay the

blame on..people, things, circumstances, etc, etc! Felt likesomeone was reading into my own thought process as I
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was reading your wonderful insights. Looking forwardto more on the same:-)


oSush VijSo amazing. Realizing and practicing are twodifferent things. It is so nice to read this and keep up thepractice. Thank you for sharing.

June 7 at 3:50pmviamobileUnlike2

onjani DudduThis is so true that we all depend on

people ,external objects, situations and gadgets to makeus feel happy and secured . they give us only temporaryhappiness and security , until we wake up to this realitywe are caught up in this samsara.


oShivaram KrishnanI feel realizing and practicing arethe same thing.


oShivaram KrishnanIf not, one just needs to listenagain. hear again.


o
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Bede Cliffordyou might discover the value of nonharmfulness and be clear about what you get by livingthat value as a way of life and understand what you

lose by nor living that way. But to assimilate that valueyou must consciously and deliberately make thatunderstanding and your way of living come together toform a whole. Swami Dayananda is very clear on this inhis book value of values. To assimilate a value requiresawareness and the exercising of our discriminationbetween what is right and what is wrong and our choiceover action. These are the three faculties my teacher says

makes us human beings different from Animals.Whenour understanding and our way of living are one andthe same our realizing and practicing are one and thesame. the bridge to this is awareness, discriminationand choice over action. Value of values is my existentialbible. It deals with existential knowledge. knowledge ofvalues related to how we live our lives. this knowledge isdistinct from the ontological (truth of being) knowledge

which is the truth of what we are. in the context of thisknowledge the discrimination that applies is betweenwhat is eternal and what is transient. in the context ofour daily living the discrimination between what isright and what is wrong is the important one. Thepractice of karma yoga transforms the quality of ourminds in order to make it subtle enough to listen to andunderstand the ontological teaching. This is the onlyway the teaching can work according to my teacher.Our fundamental choice in terms of living is being amindless reactor or being a conscious, discriminativeand responsive doer. Without this we can't change ourway of living. if we don't change the way we are livingour minds remain the same. Understanding and livingmust be brought together. This is what firmly establishes

the understanding in us.I suggest you read "Action andReaction" and "Value of Values" they contain the
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existential teaching. the teaching that deals with thetransformation of the way we live in the world.


oShivaram KrishnanIn some cases I trusted SPS ji, inother cases I did not follow what he told, and learnt thehard way


oShanta SankaranOur usual problem is that we viewthese values as something that we 'have to' rather thanwhat we 'want to'. When reasoning given in this articleis understood, we can see that the practice can reduceand eventually remove our mental suffering in our

every day life.That additional immediate gain in terms of mentalpeace and health can provide us the motivation.

June 8 at 5:20amLike2

o

Bede CliffordShanta you make a very good point here. Ifa value is not our value then our minds will not tendtowards it. It is only by the discovery for ourselves thevalue of a value. Swami Dayananda says "when thevalue of the value becomes valuable to me it is only thenthat the value is mine. Without trying i will have astriving in me that tends toward that value. Only thencan I effectively practice living it. Dharma is written in

our hearts. It is the voice of God. in every situation we
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face we will listen to the voice of God in the form of aprompting to do what is right or we will listen to thevoice of our disires and aversions prompting us to do

they prompt us to do. my teacher says that surrenderingour will to dharma is the true bharkti because wesurrender to the lord in the form of dharma.


oBede Cliffordwe either serve the Lord by responding towhat is given by his hand. or we serve our desires andaversions. It is in our very best interests to serve the lordby listening and obeying. this brings us into harmonywith the the universe obtaining as the law and order.god does not punish us for our sins. Swamini says it islike if we eat poisonous food we get a belly ache this issimply how the laws work. it is not personal. If we protect

Dharma Dharma will protect us. we can rely on thisprinciple because it is relying on God.


oVinita Lakshmy VenkataramanThis part of your articleraised a doubt - is it necessary to first experience thesuffering due to this dependence in order to gainfreedom ? Is there a natural sequence here - firstsamsara and then moksha ?

June 8 at 7:43amLike

o
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shwin KhambadkoneSuffering happens due to wrongassumption that I am with limited adjuncts...if there isno wanting or wanting to become..it is freedom. Atman

is always free...confusion causes the assumption that oneis limited...removal of that false notion removes the needfor external objects. Concept of freedom is only for themwho assumed that they were not free.

June 8 at 7:46amUnlike3

oShivaram KrishnanSo have I done a mistake byassuming I am not free.; ) ( trick question )


oBede CliffordDayanada says something to the effectthat only when we see that we suffer the disease will wesee the value of the solution. with this said Vedantastudy will make this clearer as well. the recognition ofour dependence on objects as an existential condition ofslavery. the condition is an "as though condition". it isnot a reality but an expereince. if it was our realitythere would be no solution. but the desire for moksha iswhat will make our minds turn to vedanta more andmore .good desire to have. a blessing in fact eventhough it is resolved in the final vision. when you needobjects for your happiness you will suffer. every timepeople don't do what you want you will hate consciouslyor unconsciously.when you lose what you think you need

you will be sad.the thought that you might lose what youhave is the basis of fear.

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oShivaram KrishnanI think its like watching a 3d moviewith 3d glasses. Guru gives you a nice 3d glass (teaching) one has to wear it and see. But in order towear it we need some preparation, the head does notaccept this 3d glass. So we do karma yoga and finallythe glass that is in the pocket all the time ( enoughshravanam nidhidhyasansm) and you just wear it andsee . Things become bit clearer. Same old movie though

June 8 at 8:02amviamobile

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oshwin KhambadkoneAssumption is I am limited and I

need something or need to become someone. Freedom isneed from external objects and circumstances.


oBede CliffordShivaram very nice analogy


oBede Cliffordhere is a few quotes by my teacher the lastone is very important and tends to be overlooked.


oBede CliffordStillnessStillness is always with us. When it is discovered, you
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never lose it; if it is attained, it does not stay.

Love

Love is nonfaultfinding accommodation.

MeditationMeditation upon anything other than the nature of theAtma will simply result in mental steadiness. Meditationupon the nature of the Atma alone (contemplation) willresult in its ascertained vision, which itself is moksha.

MokshaKarma yoga without jnanam (knowledge) will beincomplete. Jnanam without karma yoga will beimpossible.


oShivaram KrishnanYa I often felt the last one wasimportant. Thanks for this.


oshwin KhambadkoneExcellent! Stillness discovered.

Swami Dayananda says Karma Yoga is attitude.Attitude comes from knowing what is most important.

June 8 at 2:28pmEditedLike1
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Part 3 Conversationsoo 13 peoplelike this.o

Shantti ChandraDepend on the guru, scripture andGod Is the truth.It will lead us to the right path and itwill open our eyes to the things that we could not seeourself.

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Part 4 Conversationso Prashant Parikhand18 otherslike this.o Dinesh VasandaniYour discussion is very similar to the

teaching of observing or witnessing the mind. Ex - I amupset with someone vs oh my mind is upset and I the selfis the observer of the mind. Pretty cool stuff


oBede CliffordWhen it comes to the teaching aboutobserving or witnessing the mind Swami Dayanandahas an interesting take on this. He says you are theproblem you are the solution. We tend to think otherthings are the problem. People, conditions and in thiscase the mind. This is an unfortunate erroneous idea.One my teacher cured me of early on thank God. I hadsuffered from this erroneous all my life and as a resultengaged in a lot of wasted effort struggling with themind.

When I was formally studying psychotherapy I wastaught and believed the problem was the mind. This is

understandable because people present with depression,anger, anxiety, interpersonal conflict, compulsivelydoing things that are not in their best interests andcompulsively not doing what would be in their bestinterests. Because people think that the mind is theproblem they think that the mind is upset and because ofthis they set about trying to do something about it. Ifthey take a spiritual approach they try to deal with the

mind by witnessing it in order to deal with the problem.
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This is a misdirected effort. Swami Dayananda has aradically different view and a radically differentapproach.

A mental reaction is a happening and it can beunpleasant just like cold weather. But that is never theproblem. The problem is not centred on the mind it iscentred on I. I am the one who is angry say. Not mymind is angry. When the I sense and the emotionalreaction become one and the same then I have a senseof identity with the emotion. It is as though I have

become the mind. In this case the mind in the form ofthe anger. (we never become anything in terms ofreality because we are always ourselves) If the mind isthe problem then the solution is out of our hands.Through the teaching I can come to a sense of myself asdistinct from the mind /sense/ body complex. Not theidea that I am distinct from the mind, but a real senseof myself as distinct from my mind. When a mental

reaction occurs I either don't become it but am myselfin spite of it. Or if I do become it as soon as I takeownership of my sense of myself as distinct from the mindthere is no problem. This happens when theunderstanding (what I am in the light of the scriptures)becomes active in me because when this happens I willrecover this sense of myself. The mind was never theproblem it was my being identified with the anger. I amalso the solution.

The differentiation of the subject of knowledge from theobjects of knowledge is vital as a first step In Vedanta.This is not an idea but the discovery of a sense of myselfas distinct from the mind body complex. My teachermade it very clear from the beginning you can't

contemplate what you don't know. The contemplativedisposition of the mind can't arise without this first


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basic step. This is not mystical or some spiritual la laland. It is simply cognitive. This disposition is simply thedisposition towards simply being with myself as myself.

This is not possible when my sense of self is the same asmy physical condition, sense organs, organs of actionand the condition of the mind.

When I am with myself as myself the mind is never aproblem. It is true that in the ultimate vision the truthof the observer and the truth of the object are one andthe same. But there is no epistemological(in terms of

knowledge) leap from identification with the mind tothe total vision . Unless you happen to be a RamanaMarharshi. We have to discover a distinctness as aknowing subject from the mind/body/sense complex first.


oshwin KhambadkoneNidhidyasana! continuous and

conscientious effort to bring in the teaching in everymoment.


oRavi EaswaranThe Yoga Sutras also given a keeninsight into this. I am giving the first four sutras inChapter 1; along with my commentary (any defects aresolely mine )- The fourth Sutra tells us that as long aswe do not see the mind as something separate from "I" ,we are bound to experience its modifications.

.Now begins the study of Yoga .
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Atha = Now. : Yoga= Yoga-the science of Unity;Anushashanam study, discipline.

Atha means Now. It can be taken to mean that this isthe appropriate time to begin the study of Yoga Sutras.What is meant by Now ? The present moment. The past isover. No action is possible in the past. The future has not

yet come. No action is possible in the future. Thereforethe only time to begin the study is the present moment.The import of this statement is that that best time tobegin the study of yoga is just now. Do not wait for the

future, for there is no certainty about the future. Beginnow.------------------------------------------------------------------------------

: ||1.02||

Yoga is the cessation of modifications of the mind.(a) YogaDerived from the Sanskrit root Yuj meaningto yoke, join, unite. Yoga is therefore the term used todescribe the practices through which we (Jiva-individual consciousness) unite with the Atman(Universal Consciousness).(b) Citta.. There is no exact equivalent in English forCitta. It may be noted that Citta used in the Yoga

Sutras is not the same as the Citta of Vedanta. Citta ofVedanta is one role in the four roles played by the mindie Manas, Buddhi, Citta and Ahankar. In Vedanta Cittais used to refer to the mind when it is delving intomemory. Patanjali however uses the term to refer to thetotal mind, a use which has led commentators to coinexpressions like mind stuff to explain the meaning ofthe phrase. If one consults the Sanskrit dictionary, one

sees various meanings adduced to it eg. noticing,


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disturbances die away. For that we need to look at theroot cause of such disturbances.-------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------

:.

Then, the witness regains his own form.

(a) Tada- Then(b) Drustr (uhu)- witness (of) of the witness

(c) Sva Own(d) Rupe form(e) Avasthana- residence, abiding, taking up, standing

The word Tada is usually paired with Yada ie Yada Tada ie to say Yada condition X Tada Condition Y. InEnglish we can translate roughly as When.then.Therefore in the previous Sutra Yada is to beunderstood. Therefore the two Sutras are to be read inconjunction and the meaning is to be understood asWhen the modifications of the mind cease, then theWitness resides in his own nature, own true form.Who is the witness ? The individual soul the Jiva. The

Jiva is the one who resides in this body and uses thisBody-mind-Intellect complex as a vehicle for its journey

through life. Unfortunately, the Jiva, throughignorance, is completely identified with the Body Mind-Complex and is convinced that this (complex) is his truenature. This being so, all the experiences which the bodymind complex is subject to in the journey of life aretaken by the Jiva as its own experiences and thereforethe Jiva(we) experience all the ups and downs of lifewhich we call likes, dislikes, joy, sorrow etc. It is not the

experiences themselves which bother us ..it is our


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reactions to those experiences which cause the pleasureand pain. These reactions are what we call thoughts..theVrittis in the Citta.

These Vrittis are disturbances and, as we all know, attimes when the flow of thoughts slow down ( earlymorning, approaching sleep or just getting up ), weexperience a sense of peace. This peace is because as thethoughts slow down, the veil between Atman, our truenature-Svarupa, and us gets thinner. In truth, thethoughts themselves are the material from which thisveil is constructed. As thoughts thin down, it is the faint

ray of bliss of the Atman, shining through the veil, thatcauses us to be more peaceful at such times. Imaginethen the Bliss that will arise when all thoughts cease, theveil completely vanishes and we are established in theAtman.The Sutra confirms this by stating that when thoughtshave been stilled, what remains is our true nature(Svarupa), the Atman.

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being a student of vedanta bede

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