bbo news - jdonn on slam bidding part ii - lecture notes

9/16/15 BBO News - Jdonn on Slam Bidding Part II - Lecture notes

webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=2786 1/11

JDonn on Slam Bidding Part IILecture notes

On Sunday, July 12, we held a free teaching session on BBO, hosted by star player JDonn (Josh Donn).This was the second lecture in a series on Slam Bidding, and was followed by a Q&A session, wherekibitzers were welcome to ask Josh questions. Below is a transcript of the lecture.

Notes from Josh's previous lecture can be found here: Jdonn on Slam Bidding Part I.

Hi everyone and welcome.

Last time, I spoke about quantitative bidding after a 1NT opening bid. As a reminder, quantitative bidding means bidding to acontract based on your general values rather than which specific tricks you will take, such as 1NT â€“ 4NT inviting slam basedon opener's general values. I am going to continue the topic of quantitative 4NT bids, but discuss a wider variety of auctions.

Often, 4NT is a quantitative bid rather than Blackwood, even directly over a suit bid. How can you tell when this is the case? With few exceptions, there is a very simple rule that should be followed:

4NT over a suit bid is not keycard Blackwood if there was another way to raise the suit below 4NT that would havebeen forcing.

I intentionally said "not keycard Blackwood" rather than "quantitative" for this rule because of a few special exceptions where4NT has neither of those meanings. They are those exceptions:

4NT directly over partner's 1 level opening bid is REGULAR Blackwood. If you want to bid keycard blackwood for partner'ssuit, start with a forcing raise such as 1H - 2NT, and then bid keycard blackwood on your next turn.4NT directly over partner's natural 4 level bid in an un-agreed upon suit is REGRESSIVE, saying you don't fit his bids. Forexample, 2NT 3H (transfer), 3S 4D, 4NT says you don't fit spades or diamonds.4NT in many competitive auctions is used as a TAKEOUT bid. There are a lot of examples, one of which is a 4NT overcall ofa 4S opening bid. B ut generally speaking, 4NT is a takeout bid when used in competition if our side hasn't agreed a suit yet.

So other than those exceptions, the rule I mentioned applies to quantitative 4NT bids. If partner bids a suit, and there is some

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=2778

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php?id=2731



other way to raise the suit and have it be forcing, then 4NT by you is quantitative, not keycard Blackwood. Let's look at someexamples.

♣ QJ96♦ 5♥ AK62♠ KQJ4S South

♣ 5432♦ A2♥ 9874♠ 1075W West

♣ A10♦ KQJ1087♥ QJ3♠ A9N NorthD

♣ K87♦ 9643♥ 105♠ 8632E East

1W N E S

1♦ P 1♥P 3♦ P 4NTP 6NT P PP

6NT S NS: 0 EW: 0

Rewind Previous Next Options GIB Play

You hold â™ KQJ4 â™¥AK62 â™¦5 â™£QJ96. Partner opens 1â™¦, you respond 1â™¥, and partner rebids 3â™¦.

What do you do?

Well, you could certainly have slam if partner is maximum, like â™ A9 â™¥QJ3 â™¦KQJT87 â™£AT, which makes 6NTcompletely cold.



♣ QJ96♦ 5♥ AK62♠ KQJ4S South

♣ A732♦ 103♥ 1087♠ 10832W West

♣ K104♦ AQJ9872♥ J♠ A9N NorthD

♣ 85♦ K64♥ Q9543♠ 765E East

1W N E S

1♦ P 1♥P 3♦ P 4NTP P P

4NT S NS: 0 EW: 0


But what if partner is lighter, such as â™ A9 â™¥J â™¦AQJ9872 â™£KT4? Then slam is not a good bet. The answer is thatyou need a way to invite partner to slam, and 4NT serves that purpose.

But isn't 4NT keycard Blackwood for diamonds? A lot of people would think so, but it shouldn't be! If you want to bid keycardBlackwood for diamonds, start with 4â™¦. This raise of partner is forcing. A good partner will then make a control bid in a majorsuit, leaving you room to bid 4NT Blackwood on your next turn. Or partner might even beat you to it and bid Blackwoodthemselves, which is just fine. However, sometimes you hold a hand like this example that simply wants to invite slam and canâ€™t make a natural raise, and then 4NT quantitative is just what the doctor ordered.



♣ AKJ92♦ KQ95♥ A4♠ J7S South

♣ Q63♦ 1083♥ J1072♠ 632W West

♣ 10♦ A2♥ KQ863♠ AQ1095N NorthD

♣ 8754♦ J764♥ 95♠ K84E East

1W N E S

1♠ P 2♣P 2♥ P 2NTP 3♥ P 4NTP 6NT P PP

6NT S NS: 0 EW: 0


Here is another example auction that demonstrates the guideline about when 4NT is quantitative over a suit bid.

You hold â™ J7 â™¥A4 â™¦KQ95 â™£AKJ92. Partner opens 1â™ , and you bid 2â™£ game forcing. Partner rebids 2â™¥,and you bid 2NT so he can describe his shape further. Partner then bids 3â™¥, showing at least 5-5 in the majors.

What do you do?

Well, you don't have a fit at this point. You might have a slam simply based on values, but if partner is minimum then game isenough (he might open with as few as 10 high card points holding 5-5 shape). 4NT quantitative is the perfect bid. If partner holdsâ™ AQT95 â™¥KQ863 â™¦2 â™£T, a nice 15 point hand, he will bid 6NT.



♣ AKJ92♦ KQ95♥ A4♠ J7S South

♣ 7643♦ J1086♥ J2♠ A32W West

♣ 10♦ A2♥ KQ863♠ Q10954N NorthD

♣ Q85♦ 743♥ 10975♠ K86E East

1W N E S

1♠ P 2♣P 2♥ P 2NTP 3♥ P 4NTP P P

4NT S NS: 0 EW: 0


If instead he holds the same hand without the ace of spades, â™ QT954 â™¥KQ863 â™¦A2 â™£T, he will pass and you havestopped in a comfortable contract.

But again, isn't 4NT keycard Blackwood for hearts on that auction? It should not be.

If you have a hand that wants to strongly agree hearts, you can make a control bid in one of the minors over partner's 3â™¥ bid,by bidding 4â™£ or 4â™¦ . These don't make sense as natural bids since you already rebid 2NT, denying extreme shape in theminors, and partner has shown more and more length in the majors. They are controls bids for hearts, the last bid suit. Aftermaking one of those bids, 4NT on your next turn is keycard Blackwood for hearts.

Sometimes you have to go through an extra step to bid keycard for partner's suit, but that is necessary in order for a direct 4NTto be quantitative, which is exactly the bid you need on lots of hands.



♣ K985♦ AKQ3♥ AQ104♠ 5S South

♣ 6♦ J105♥ KJ98762♠ 94W West

D

♣ AJ4♦ 762♥ 5♠ AQ10873N North

♣ Q10732♦ 984♥ 3♠ KJ62E East

8W N E S

3♥ 3♠ P 4NTP P P

4NT S NS: 0 EW: 0


Let's do one more example.

You hold â™ 5 â™¥AQT4 â™¦AKQ3 â™£K985. LHO opens 3â™¥, partner overcalls 3â™ , and RHO passes. What is yourbid?

Well it's tempting to bid 6NT right now, but you really don't have enough. Partner was under pressure and may have had tostretch to get into the auction holding the spade suit. If partner holds â™ AQT873 â™¥5 â™¦762 â™£AJ4 then slam is not agood bet.



♣ K985♦ AKQ3♥ AQ104♠ 5S South

♣ J107♦ 8♥ KJ98762♠ 93W West

D

♣ AQ4♦ J76♥ 5♠ AQJ1087N North

♣ 632♦ 109542♥ 3♠ K642E East

8W N E S

3♥ 3♠ P 4NTP 6NT P PP

6NT S NS: 0 EW: 0


But partner might have more, like â™ AQJT87 â™¥5 â™¦J76 â™£AQ4. How can you tell the difference? Bid 4NT quantitative!Partner will pass with our first example, and bid slam with our second.

But why isn't 4NT keycard Blackwood for spades? Many would think it is, but if you want to bid keycard Blackwood for spadesinstead, there is a simple solution. Cuebid 4â™¥, the opponents' suit. That shows a strong spade raise. Often it's a hand thatplans on passing if all partner can do is bid 4â™ , but it can also be a necessary step before bidding keycard.

In closing, I have a final word of warning about the auctions I have been talking about today. I have stated what these auctions"should" mean.

My purpose is not for you to sit down with partner tomorrow, watch him or her bid 1â™¦ - 1â™ - 3â™¦ - 4NT, have you passbecause Josh said that is quantitative, and see that partner meant it as Blackwood after all. My purpose is for you to discussthese auctions with your partner, and reach a common agreement about them. It would be stubborn of you to not answer what



you know is partner's Blackwood bid just because I said that's not what it should mean. I have tried to explain what are thestandard agreements on an advanced level. You still have to take into account what partner knows and be practical in decidingwhat partner's bids mean.

Questions & Answers:

Q1:In the last hand, can 4â™¥ be played as RKC for â™¥ ?A: That would not be a good idea, because you might have a hand with a spade fit that only wants to invite slam, not bid

keycard. 4â™¥ is needed for that purpose as well.It might be inviting slam, and that is what partner assumes in choosing his next call, but it might also be planning on biddingkeycard next round.

Q2: On a previous hand the auction was (just our side bidding) 1â™¦ 1â™¥, 3â™¦ 4â™¦. Why this 4â™¦ bid is forcing, rather

than invitational?A: It's a standard bid. Partner's 3â™¦ is already invitational. You don't re-invite after already inviting, in general.

You need 4â™¦ as a forcing bid, because what else do you do with a slam invitation and a diamond fit? It's like the questionabout (3â™¥) 3â™ (P) 4â™¥. You need a bid available to invite slam.If you have a hand that you think is borderline to bid game or pass, just bid game and dare them to beat you!

Q3: On the first hand, we noticed that it was played from the wrong side

A: That is a great point, and I have to admit it's not a 100% perfect example.

Opener could bid 6â™¦ if they thought it might be a better contract than 6NT.But... Responder's king might be in clubs instead of hearts, â™ KQJx â™¥Axxx â™¦ x â™£KQJx, and then responder has todeclare to rightside, opposite of this example!I made the point last time that quantitative bidding is not an exact science. It's just your best estimate of what you can makebased on the values of your hands.Here I would definitely rather be in 6NT than game, even wrongsided, because 1) they have to lead a club to have a shot to beat me, and2) then I'll still make if the king is onsideBut all that being said, I credit those who noticed the contract was wrongsided. Bonus points for you.

Q4: There are quite a few questions about kickback, minorwood, which is better, and are those expert agreementsA: Kickback and minorwood are conventions that are other versions of roman keycard blackwood.

One problem with keycard blackwood is, suppose your suit is clubs, and partner bids 4NT. All the responses but one take youbeyond 5â™£, and that might be beyond your safety level. Kickback and minorwood aim to solve that and similar problems.



Kickback means the suit above your trump suit is the keycard ask. 4â™¦ for clubs, 4â™¥ for diamonds, 4â™ for hearts, 4NT forspades.

Minorwood means 4 of a minor is a keycard ask for that minor. 4â™£ for clubs, 4â™¦ for diamonds.

Let me mention minorwood first. I don't really like it. Bidding 4 of a minor as a natural forcing bid is very valuable. Like theauction that is currently showing of 1â™¦ 1â™¥, 3â™¦ 4â™¦, I can't imagine giving up a natural 4â™¦ bid. Like I said, it's neededto invite slam.

Kickback is much better, because the bid above your trump suit is not needed as a natural bid.

But it's very very very accident prone, so it takes a lot of discussion in a true partnership to avoid misunderstandings.

Like here, if responder bid 4â™¥ over 3â™¦, is it kickback, or is it natural since he is rebidding his suit?

I'm not saying that this question and others like it can't be answered, just that it's important to cover them ahead of time so thereis not a costly slam misunderstanding.

But overall I think, with proper discussion, kickback is a useful convention to save room when asking for keycards. It let's youstop at the 5 level opposite any response if you didn't find enough keycards for slam. I play it in several partnerships myself.

Q5: On the 2 actions: 1â™¦-1â™¥-3â™¦-4nt versus 1â™¦- 1â™¥-3â™¦ -3â™ -3nt-4nt, is there any difference between the two?

A: Well on the actual hand I wouldn't bid 3â™ because we can't have a fit in either major and I don't need stoppers either.

But if you bid 3â™ , say because you lack a club stopper, and partner bids 3NT, then 4NT is quantitative. 4NT is pretty muchalways quantitative when it's a direct raise of a 3NT bid.

If you want to bid keycard for diamonds there, then you need to take an extra step just as I talked about, and bid 4â™¦ over 3NT.Presumably partner will cuebid a major for you, and then you bid 4NT keycard for diamonds

Q6: What are other auctions after pre-empts on the 3-level of the type like (3â™¥) - 3â™ - (p) - ... where 4NT isn't RKCB butquantitative? Only cases where you have two routes (direct 4NT and cue-4NT) or other cases as well?

A: No, it's exactly those cases that are covered by that rule. If you have a different strong raise below 4NT, then 4NT is

quantitative, but if you don't then it's probably keycard.



So (4â™¥) - 4â™ - (P) - 4NT is keycard blackwood for spades, because there is no way to raise spades below 4NT.It's a very important distinction that is worth understanding.

Q7: On that board where opps opened 3â™¥ (5th board), shouldn't North pass? A: Well it's not really what I was talking about today, but I wouldn't pass over 3â™¥ with that hand in a million years. Bidding

definitely might get you too high, there is no doubt about it, but you might also belong in spades, and how will you ever get thereif you don't s tretch and overcall with this?

Kit Woolsey, who is a great player and theorist, likes to say (I'm paraphrasing) that even if bidding is risky, passing is oftenriskier.

The fact that bidding might work badly just goes to show how effective preempting can be, nothing more than that.

Q8: Why use regular blackwood? You said at the beginning that "4NT directly over partner's 1 level opening bid is

REGULAR blackwood. If you want to bid keycard blackwood for partnerâ€™s suit, start with a forcing raise such as 1H â€“2NT, and then bid keycard"

A: Good question, admittedly it's not a bid you would use that often. But what I stated is the standard meaning.

When you bid keycard blackwood for partner's suit, partner will tell you about the K and Q of that suit as well as aces. But youmight only care about aces.

Suppose partner opens 1â™¥ and you hold â™ Kx â™¥x â™¦AKQJxxxx â™£KQ, or something.

You don't want to bid keycard blackwood for hearts, because you don't care about the K and Q of hearts. You only want to knowhow many aces partner has.

You could start with a diamond bid, but if an opponent preempts, or if partner jumps to 4â™¥, you may never get to bid regularblackwood. So on that hand I would respond 4NT to 1â™¥ and just find out about aces.

Q9: Also in board 5. Would 4â™£ by South on this hand again be a cuebid in clubs encouraging spades? Especially since

3â™ by partner is not forcing?A: 4â™£ here would show clubs. You might just have your own club suit to bid. You don't want to have to jump to 5â™£ to showclubs. It's takes away a hugely important level of bidding.

Roughly speaking, then the opponents have shown one suit, that is the suit you worry about having controlled. It's too hard to also



Name

worry about club and diamond controls here, you just figure you have them if you have slam values.

Thanks everyone for coming. And thanks to all kibs, great questions. Hope you enjoyed.

-------See you soon, keep an eye on BBO News to find out when next lecture is scheduled.

Click here for notes from our previous lectures.

Comments

Enter your comment here

Comment

2 people like this.Like Share

(July 13, 2015) Lovera said:

If can help to remember : N bids slam with 20 points and pass when has minus of this pointing in its hand (countingMW+Goren+longness)

https://accounts.google.com/o/oauth2/auth?scope=email&state=http%3A//webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_fetch.php%3Fid%3D2786&redirect_uri=http%3A//www.htmlcommentbox.com%2Foauth2callback&response_type=code&client_id=509841468006-i7n9nufur9vg81ukmm33k0lfo3bmu0fr.apps.googleusercontent.com&approval_prompt=force

http://webutil.bridgebase.com/v2/news_taglist_gp.php?t=lecture

http://www.htmlcommentbox.com/rss_clean?page=http%3A%2F%2Fwebutil.bridgebase.com%2Fv2%2Fnews_fetch.php%3Fid%3D2786&opts=414&mod=$1$wq1rdBcg$tRAhSrt22gjnUzeP.buSk1

bbo news - jdonn on slam bidding part ii - lecture notes

Documents