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The Art of Interviewing
Presented by
Ed McDonough, CPP CFE
Chief Security Officer
ADT Security Services
Institute of Internal Auditors
Miami Chapter
March 29, 2019
© 2019 Edward McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved3
TOPICS
▪ Purpose
▪ Preparation
▪ Asking the questions
▪ Evaluating the answers
▪ Strategy, Tactics and Techniques
▪Do’s and Don'ts of Interviewing
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved4
PURPOSE
▪ Obtain relevant information
▪ Find the truth
▪ Identify the guilty
▪ Eliminate innocent
Preparation
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved6
PREPARATION
Study the facts and information
of the case
▪ If practical, visit the scene of the crime
▪ Review investigation reports
▪ Review other statements
▪ Examine physical evidence
▪ Evaluate circumstantial evidence
▪ Obtain background information on suspects
Bring documentation, other statements, etc.
to the interview
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved7
TIME
Interview
▪ As soon as possible
▪ Convenient
▪ Sufficient
▪ Scheduled
Interrogation
▪ Not until armed with evidential facts
▪ Surprise vs. Scheduled
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved8
LOCATION
Set up
▪ Private and quiet
▪ No interruptions
▪ No distractions
Interview
▪ Friendly, familiar,comfortable surroundings
▪ Convenient
Interrogation
▪ Advantage to the interrogator
▪ Set the stage
▪ Non-supportive
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
9
INTERVIEW or INTERROGATION
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
10
Asking the Questions
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved12
MECHANICS OF QUESTIONING
‘Questions are the tools used to focus attention on matters
relevant to the investigation’
Questions are used to:
▪ Direct the interview
▪ Control the interview
▪ Obtain information
▪ Clarify data, discrepancies and contradictions
▪ Test the validity of the information
▪ Probe for withheld information
▪ Achieve understanding
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved13
METHODS OF QUESTIONING
▪ Narrative - requires the subject
to tell what he/she knows about
a specific matter
▪ Direct examination – systematic
questioning designed to bring
new information or fill in details
▪ Cross examination - exploratory
questioning designed to test
previous information, resolve
conflicting details, challenge evasive
answers and undermine the self-
confidence created by deceptive
answers
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved14
CHARACTERISTICS OF A GOOD QUESTION
Short And Confined To One Topic
❖ Clear And Easily Understood
❖ Non-Threatening And Non-Emotional
❖ Open Ended
Elicits Precise Answers
❖ Where Were You Yesterday?
❖ Where Were You Yesterday Morning?
❖ Where Were You Yesterday At 11:15?
Produces Information That Is Directly Related To The
Matter
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved15
ACTIVE LISTENNG
Listen to the answers and think about their content
▪ Actively
▪ Perceptively
▪ Accurately
▪ Objectively
▪ With empathy
▪ Without annoyance,
irritation and emotion
What is the biggest obstacle to Active Listening?
Evaluating the Answers
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved17
EVALUATION
Verbal and Non-verbal responses
General principles
▪ Actions speak louder than words
▪ Nonverbal communication is responsible for more than
half of total communication
▪ The meaning of verbal communication is emphasized,
modified or contradicted by the nonverbal behavior a
person
▪ Nonverbal is always "on"
▪ Behavior symptoms become more dramatic
as stress levels increase
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved18
EVALUATION
Verbal ResponsesTruthful
▪ Normal tone of voice
▪ Direct denial
▪ Immediate responses
▪ Not reluctant to use harsh,realistic words
▪ Corrects interviewer’s mistakes
▪ Does not reinforce denials withoaths, religious reference
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved19
EVALUATION
Verbal Responses
Deceptive
▪ Delayed, evasive or vague response
▪ Mumbles, subdued tone of voice
▪ Tries to avoid the issue
▪ Injects irrelevant matters
▪ Avoids realistic words and terms
▪ Often feigns “memory failure”
▪ Repeats question back to interviewer
▪ Resorts to oath taking
▪ Offers to pay money back
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
20
Copyright© 1998 and 2000 John E. Reid and Associates, Inc.
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved21
EVALUATION
Non-verbal responses
It is vital that the interviewer:
▪ Observe a broad range of nonverbal activity
▪ Look for specific changes and inconsistencies
▪ Evaluate the behavioral indications of deception on the basis of when they occur and how often they occur
▪ Remember that no one behavior indicator should be evaluated on its own; all should be given collective consideration
Behavioral indications of deception
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved22
EVALUATION
Non-verbal responses
Factors that may influence the reliability
of behavior symptoms
▪ Importance of the issue
▪ Intelligence of the subject
▪ Emotional stability of the subject
▪ Maturity level
▪ Cultural differences
▪ Use of medications, drugs, alcohol, etc.
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
23
Copyright© 1998 and 2000 John E. Reid and Associates, Inc.
Strategy, Tactics & Techniques
How to use the Fraud Triangle in Your Strategy
THE FRAUD TRIANGLE
25
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
THE FRAUD TRIANGLE
Opportunity
26
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
OPPORTUNITY
❑ Opportunity is simply the existence of favorable
circumstances that allow a fraud to be committed
❑ More complex organizational structures, de-layered
organizations, increased spans of control, and
managing from a distance have served to create
additional opportunities for fraud
❑ Opportunity can be either real or perceived
27© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
OPPORTUNITY (CONT.)
❑ Opportunity is the area of the fraud triangle where the manager can be most effective
❑ A real or perceived weakness of internal controls significantly increases the chance of fraud
❑ Professional skepticism on the part of managers can help reduce the risk of fraud
28© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
THE FRAUD TRIANGLE
Rationalization
29
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
RATIONALIZATION
❑ The psychological make up of an individual and the
circumstances in their life will determine whether or
not they are able to justify a fraudulent act to
themselves
❑ People committing fraud generally do not consider
the behavior to be acceptable, they justify their
actions through rationalization
30© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
RATIONALIZATION (CONT.)
✓ I am just borrowing the money
✓ Everybody does it
✓ I am not hurting anyone
✓ It’s for a good cause
✓ It’s not really serious
✓ The Company can afford it
✓ I deserve it
Individuals who commit fraud normally justify
their actions to themselves so they can cope
and continue to function
Common rationalizing statements
31© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
THE FRAUD TRIANGLE
Need
32
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
NEED
Examples of financial need:
✓ Keeping up with
Jones’ - living beyond
ones means
✓ High personal debt
or poor credit
✓ Financial losses
✓ Gambling,
Substance Abuse
✓Undue pressure to
succeed
✓Greed
✓Feeling of
entitlement
✓Divorce
✓Medical bills
✓Educational costs
33
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
NEED (CONT.)
✓ The perpetrator of fraud is generally unable to meet the need through traditional or acceptable means
✓ Challenges to beat the system, job dissatisfaction, emotional instability
✓ Identifying a financial need or pressure does not mean there has been a fraud or that a fraud will be committed
NEED OFTEN BECOMES MOTIVE
❑ Additional factors impacting financial need
34© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
FRAUD
THE FRAUD TRIANGLE
Opportunity
RationalizationMotive / Need
35
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved36
STRATEGY
The decisions regarding the approach and setting made before an interview is started
▪ Is an interview the most valid and efficientmeans to gather the necessary information
▪ Who should be interviewed
▪ Who does the interviewing;
▪ Should there be a witness
▪ What tactics and techniques shouldthe interviewer use
▪ When and where should the interview take place
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved37
TACTICS
The functional steps of the interview
▪ Approach
▪ Rapport
▪ Free narrative
▪ Questioning bythe interviewer
▪ Summary
▪ Obtain written record of the interview
▪ Close the interview
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved38
TECHNIQUES
▪ Silence
▪ Move closer
▪ Empathize
▪ Offer justifications
▪ Point out symptoms of guilt
▪ Seek an admission
▪ Suggest the answer is
already known
▪ Give subject an opportunity
to lie
▪ Suggest incriminating
evidence
▪ Ask about consequences
▪ Trickery and deceit
▪ Good guy / bad guy
Verbal and nonverbal behavior to communicate a
question and motivate the subject to answer it
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved
39
Copyright© 2005 NBC Dateline
Do’s and Don’t’sof Interviewing
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved41
DO'S OF INTERVIEWING
▪ Prepare
▪ Provide a suitable environment
▪ Be empathic
▪ Treat subject like a human being
▪ Show consideration and respect
▪ Talk on the subject's level
▪ Pay attention
▪ Listen Actively
▪ Stay in control
▪ Keep an open mind
▪ Ask objective questions
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved42
DON'TS OF INTERVIEWING
▪ Be interrupted
▪ Set a time limit
▪ Belittle the subject
▪ Prejudge guilt
▪ Intimidate
▪ Give too much info
▪ Ask too many leading questions
© 2019 Edward F McDonough, CPP CFE All Rights Reserved43
Ed McDonough, CPP CFE
ADT Security Services
(561) 981-4365
emcdonough@adt.com
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