legislating morality is it legal? is it possible? is it ethical? © 2005 norman l. geisler

Legislating MoralityIs it Legal? Is it Possible? Is it Ethical?

Legislating MoralityIs it Legal? Is it Possible? Is it Ethical?

© 2005 Norman L. Geisler© 2005 Norman L. Geisler

Have You Ever Heard Someone Say...Have You Ever Heard Someone Say...

1. Prohibition didn’t work.

2. You can’t legislate morality!

3. Don’t force your religion on me!

4. You can’t make people be good!

5. People are going to do it anyway!

6. The gov’t should stay out of our lives!

7. What’s right for you is not right for me.

8. We should keep religion out of politics!

9. Don’t cram your morals down my throat!

1. Prohibition didn’t work.

2. You can’t legislate morality!

3. Don’t force your religion on me!

4. You can’t make people be good!

5. People are going to do it anyway!

6. The gov’t should stay out of our lives!

7. What’s right for you is not right for me.

8. We should keep religion out of politics!

9. Don’t cram your morals down my throat!

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

1. I. Is it Constitutional? Yes--

2. A. The Declaration of Independence is based on this premise.

1. I. Is it Constitutional? Yes--

2. A. The Declaration of Independence is based on this premise.

Outline for

Legislating MoralityOutline for

Legislating Morality

“The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a

History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having

in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute

Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be

submitted to a candid world.”

“The History of the present King of Great-Britain is a

History of repeated Injuries and Usurpations, all having

in direct Object the Establishment of an absolute

Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be

submitted to a candid world.”

1776: Declaration of Independence

King George was Legislating Immorally

1776: Declaration of Independence

King George was Legislating Immorally

1. B. The First Amendment does not prohibit legislating morality; It only prohibits legislating religion.

1. B. The First Amendment does not prohibit legislating morality; It only prohibits legislating religion.

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

What the First Amendment Says:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”

“Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”

What the First Amendment DOES NOT Say:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of morality, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”

“Congress shall make no law respecting an

establishment of morality, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof….”

Religion has to do with our duty to GodReligion has to do

with our duty to GodMorality has to do with our duty to one anotherMorality has to do with our duty to one another

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

2. 1. It clearly implies that it would be wrong for Congress to establish a national religion.

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

2. 1. It clearly implies that it would be wrong for Congress to establish a national religion.

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

2. 1. It clearly implies that it would be wrong for Congress to establish a national religion.

3. 2. It also implies it would be wrong to prohibit the freedoms of speech, press, or assembly)

2. C. The First Amendment itself legislates morality

2. 1. It clearly implies that it would be wrong for Congress to establish a national religion.

3. 2. It also implies it would be wrong to prohibit the freedoms of speech, press, or assembly)

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

3. D. Every law, legislates morality. 3. D. Every law, legislates morality.

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

3. D. Every law, legislates morality.

4. 1. Every laws says “this is right and that is wrong” (=morality)

3. D. Every law, legislates morality.

4. 1. Every laws says “this is right and that is wrong” (=morality)

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

3. D. Every law, legislates morality.

4. 1. Every laws says “this is right and that is wrong” (=morality)

5. 2. So, the question is not whether morality should be legislated,

but whose morality should be legislated.

3. D. Every law, legislates morality.

4. 1. Every laws says “this is right and that is wrong” (=morality)

5. 2. So, the question is not whether morality should be legislated,

but whose morality should be legislated.

Legislating MoralityLegislating Morality

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

Outline for

Legislating MoralityOutline for

Legislating Morality

Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?

1. 1. What about Prohibition?1. 1. What about Prohibition?

Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

A. Drinking dropped by more than 60%

B. Admission to health institutions for alcohol-related problems dropped by 60%

C. Arrests for drunk and disorderly conduct dropped by 50%

A. Drinking dropped by more than 60%

B. Admission to health institutions for alcohol-related problems dropped by 60%

C. Arrests for drunk and disorderly conduct dropped by 50%

1. What about Prohibition?

Response:

a. Prohibition was more effective than is commonly thought:

1. What about Prohibition?

Response:

a. Prohibition was more effective than is commonly thought:

E. Welfare agencies reported significant decline in alcohol-related family problems

F. The death rate from impure alcohol did not rise

G. Prohibition did not generate a crime wave; the homicide rate increased more from 1900-1910 then 1920-1930; organized crime was already established in the cities prior to 1920.

H. Spouse and child abuse dropped.

I. The rate of cirrhosis of the liver dropped.

J. Per capita drinking did not reach pre-1920 levels until 1975

E. Welfare agencies reported significant decline in alcohol-related family problems

F. The death rate from impure alcohol did not rise

G. Prohibition did not generate a crime wave; the homicide rate increased more from 1900-1910 then 1920-1930; organized crime was already established in the cities prior to 1920.

H. Spouse and child abuse dropped.

I. The rate of cirrhosis of the liver dropped.

J. Per capita drinking did not reach pre-1920 levels until 1975

1. What about Prohibition? (cont.) 1. What about Prohibition? (cont.)

A. One must be 21

B. Drunk driving is forbidden

C. Content of alcohol must be limited

D. The only question is: Should we do more?

A. One must be 21

B. Drunk driving is forbidden

C. Content of alcohol must be limited

D. The only question is: Should we do more?

b. We still legislate morality regarding alcohol by demanding:

b. We still legislate morality regarding alcohol by demanding:

A. Even if Prohibition over-legislated morality, it doesn’t mean that legislating morality is wrong.

B. Other than intrinsic evils (like murder and rape) most laws must strike a balance between individual liberty and public safety (e.g., smoking).

C. Better laws, not the absence of all moral laws, is the answer.

A. Even if Prohibition over-legislated morality, it doesn’t mean that legislating morality is wrong.

B. Other than intrinsic evils (like murder and rape) most laws must strike a balance between individual liberty and public safety (e.g., smoking).

C. Better laws, not the absence of all moral laws, is the answer.

c. Over-legislating morality does not prove morality can’t be legislated

c. Over-legislating morality does not prove morality can’t be legislated

A. It legislates morality (by claiming it is wrong to restrict making and selling alcoholic beverages).

B. It imposes the effects of alcohol use on society.

C. There is no neutrality on moral issues (Even “the gov’t ought to stay out” is not neutral; it is a moral point of view).

A. It legislates morality (by claiming it is wrong to restrict making and selling alcoholic beverages).

B. It imposes the effects of alcohol use on society.

C. There is no neutrality on moral issues (Even “the gov’t ought to stay out” is not neutral; it is a moral point of view).

d. Anti-prohibition imposes its morality and its effects on others.

d. Anti-prohibition imposes its morality and its effects on others.

Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

1. Not true: some will but most will not.

2. Laws are about what ought to be done, not what is being done (should we nullify laws against murder because people murder?).

3. Laws restrain actions even when enforcement is lax.

4. The law itself is a great teacher.

1. Not true: some will but most will not.

2. Laws are about what ought to be done, not what is being done (should we nullify laws against murder because people murder?).

3. Laws restrain actions even when enforcement is lax.

4. The law itself is a great teacher.

2. They’re going to do it anyway!2. They’re going to do it anyway!

Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?Legislating MoralityII. Is it Enforceable?

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

1. 1. What about Prohibition?

2. 2. They’re going to do it anyway!

3. 3. You can’t make people be good!

1. Most laws are intended to restrain evil, not compel good.

1. Most laws are intended to restrain evil, not compel good.

3. You can’t make people be good!3. You can’t make people be good!

“It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me. But it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that’s pretty important.”

--Martin Luther King

“It may be true that the law cannot make a man love me. But it can keep him from lynching me, and I think that’s pretty important.”

--Martin Luther King

3. You can’t make people be good!3. You can’t make people be good!

1. Most laws are intended to restrain evil, not compel good.

1. Most laws are intended to restrain evil, not compel good.

3. You can’t make people be good!3. You can’t make people be good!

2. Some laws do compel you to do good (e.g. seat belts, educating children, speeding, and jury duty).

3. Laws can change attitudes over the long-term (e.g. slavery, abortion).

2. Some laws do compel you to do good (e.g. seat belts, educating children, speeding, and jury duty).

3. Laws can change attitudes over the long-term (e.g. slavery, abortion).

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

Outline for

Legislating MoralityOutline for

Legislating Morality

III. Is it Ethical? Yes!III. Is it Ethical? Yes!

1. A. The Declaration of Independence says it is.

1. A. The Declaration of Independence says it is.

“We hold these truths to be self evident, that

all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their

Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

that among these are Life, Liberty and the

pursuit of Happiness”.

“We hold these truths to be self evident, that

all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their

Creator with certain unalienable Rights,

that among these are Life, Liberty and the

pursuit of Happiness”.

1776: Declaration of Independence1776: Declaration of Independence

B. The Constitution Implies it isB. The Constitution Implies it is

What the First Amendment Says:What the First Amendment Says:

Congress shall make [1] no law respecting an establishment of religion, [2] or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; [3]or abridging the freedom of speech, [4] or of the press; [5] or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, [6] and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This legislates on six moral wrongs!

Congress shall make [1] no law respecting an establishment of religion, [2] or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; [3]or abridging the freedom of speech, [4] or of the press; [5] or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, [6] and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This legislates on six moral wrongs!

C. Good Reason Demands itC. Good Reason Demands it

• No one wants to live in a society that permits…

• Stealing their property

• Murdering their children

• Raping their women

• Hatred against their race or religion

• No one wants to live in a society that permits…

• Stealing their property

• Murdering their children

• Raping their women

• Hatred against their race or religion

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

4. IV. Answering Objections

1. I. Is it Constitutional?

2. II. Is it Enforceable?

3. III. Is it Ethical?

4. IV. Answering Objections

Outline for

Legislating MoralityOutline for

Legislating Morality

1. Absolutes are undeniable. (Relativists claim to be absolutely sure there are no absolutes. They insist we should never say “never”).

1. Absolutes are undeniable. (Relativists claim to be absolutely sure there are no absolutes. They insist we should never say “never”).

a. There are no objective moral laws to legislate

a. There are no objective moral laws to legislate

1. Absolutes are undeniable. (Relativists claim to be absolutely sure there are no absolutes. They insist we should never say “never”).

2. We can’t know in-justice unless we know justice.

1. Absolutes are undeniable. (Relativists claim to be absolutely sure there are no absolutes. They insist we should never say “never”).

2. We can’t know in-justice unless we know justice.

a. There are no objective moral laws to legislate

a. There are no objective moral laws to legislate

But how can you know what is not right without

knowing what is right?

But how can you know what is not right without

knowing what is right?

You can’t know what is wrong unless you know what is right!You can’t know what is wrong unless you know what is right!

“I don’t know what is right. I only know what is wrong!”

“I don’t know what is right. I only know what is wrong!”

[As an atheist] my argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?

[As an atheist] my argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust?

Straight Line = Standard

The Standard of JusticeThe Standard of Justice

C.S. LewisMere Christianity, p 45.

3. Real moral disagreements imply an objective standard.

3. Real moral disagreements imply an objective standard.

How we know there’s an objective Moral Law How we know there’s

an objective Moral Law

THE UNCHANGING MORAL LAWTHE UNCHANGING MORAL LAWTHE UNCHANGING MORAL LAWTHE UNCHANGING MORAL LAW

5. We wouldn’t know the world was getting worse (or better) if there was no Moral Law (better implies a Best).

5. We wouldn’t know the world was getting worse (or better) if there was no Moral Law (better implies a Best).

How we know there’s an objective Moral Law How we know there’s

an objective Moral Law

1. This very objection implies that everyone should accept this as morally wrong to do? (So, they want to cram this moral down our throat!)

2. These are not my morals, but ours.

3. It is not my law of gravity

4. It is not my mathematical tables

5. It is not my laws of thought

1. This very objection implies that everyone should accept this as morally wrong to do? (So, they want to cram this moral down our throat!)

2. These are not my morals, but ours.

3. It is not my law of gravity

4. It is not my mathematical tables

5. It is not my laws of thought

b. You shouldn’t cram your morals down my throat!

b. You shouldn’t cram your morals down my throat!

“You ought not impose your values on me”

“You ought not impose your values on me”

“Then why are you imposing that value on me?”

“Then why are you imposing that value on me?”

What do we say to this?What do we say to this?

“There are no absolutes!”“There are no absolutes!”

“Are you absolutely sure about that?”

“Are you absolutely sure about that?”

The Road Runner TacticThe Road Runner Tactic

“You ought not judge!”“You ought not judge!”

“Is that a judgment?”“Is that a judgment?”

The Road Runner TacticThe Road Runner Tactic

“You should be tolerant!”“You should be tolerant!”

“Then why don’t you tolerate my position?”

“Then why don’t you tolerate my position?”

The Road Runner TacticThe Road Runner Tactic

1. Why not? Are only those who oppose moral laws qualified to run the country?

2. Jesus didn’t limit his command to be “salt and light.” We should engage in both evangelism and political action.

3. Politics affects evangelism (via the freedom to preach).

1. Why not? Are only those who oppose moral laws qualified to run the country?

2. Jesus didn’t limit his command to be “salt and light.” We should engage in both evangelism and political action.

3. Politics affects evangelism (via the freedom to preach).

b. Christians shouldn’t be involved in Politics!

b. Christians shouldn’t be involved in Politics!

Politics affects morality and justice (slavery would not have been abolished without moral laws).

Jesus said “Give unto Caesar….” In our country you can be Caesar.

Politics affects morality and justice (slavery would not have been abolished without moral laws).

Jesus said “Give unto Caesar….” In our country you can be Caesar.

This country wouldn’t exist unless our founders got involved in politics.

1.1. Live righteouslyLive righteously

2.2. Pray continuallyPray continually

3.3. Read widelyRead widely

4.4. Teach faithfullyTeach faithfully

5.5. Write regularly Write regularly

6.6. Vote morallyVote morally

Be Salt and LightBe Salt and LightStop being a spectator!Stop being a spectator!

Mark Twain Said:Mark Twain Said: The American Christian is a straight and

clean and honest man.... But the moment he comes forwards to exercise a public trust he can be confidently counted upon to betray that trust in nine cases out of ten, if “party loyalty” shall require it.... There are Christian Private Morals, but there are no Christian Public Morals, at the polls,

or in the Congress or anywhere else–except here and there and scattered around like lost comets in the solar system” (Christian Science, 359-361).

The American Christian is a straight and clean and honest man.... But the moment he comes forwards to exercise a public trust he can be confidently counted upon to betray that trust in nine cases out of ten, if “party loyalty” shall require it.... There are Christian Private Morals, but there are no Christian Public Morals, at the polls,

or in the Congress or anywhere else–except here and there and scattered around like lost comets in the solar system” (Christian Science, 359-361).

What Did Jefferson Say?What Did Jefferson Say?

“God who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation remain secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?”

“God who gave us life, gave us liberty. Can the liberties of a nation remain secure when we have removed the conviction that these liberties are the gift of God?”

Edmund BurkeEdmund Burke

““The only thing The only thing necessary for evil necessary for evil

to prevail is for to prevail is for good men to do good men to do

nothing.”nothing.”

All That’s Needed for Evil to PrevailAll That’s Needed for Evil to PrevailAll That’s Needed for Evil to PrevailAll That’s Needed for Evil to Prevail

Edward Everett HaleEdward Everett Hale “I am only one,

But still I am one.I cannot do everything,But still I can do something.And because I cannot do everythingI will not refuse to doThe something that I can do.”

(US author, clergyman, d. 1909)

“I am only one,But still I am one.I cannot do everything,But still I can do something.And because I cannot do everythingI will not refuse to doThe something that I can do.”

(US author, clergyman, d. 1909)

1.1. LiveLive righteously righteously

2.2. PrayPray continuallycontinually

3.3. ReadRead widely widely

4.4. TeachTeach faithfullyfaithfully

5.5. WriteWrite regularly regularly

6.6. VoteVote morally morally

Be Salt and LightBe Salt and LightStop being a spectator!Stop being a spectator!

Start being a Participator!Start being a Participator!Start being a Participator!Start being a Participator!

No LawNo LawSituationismSituationism

Divine LawReconstructionism

The Moral Basis of Government: Three Views

Natural LawNatural LawJeffersonianismJeffersonianism

Advantages: Advantages:

•Avoids Legislating ReligionAvoids Legislating Religion•Avoids RelativismAvoids Relativism

•Secures Human Rights Secures Human Rights •Available to allAvailable to all

•Undeniable by anyUndeniable by any

No King or LawNo King or LawNo King or LawNo King or Law The Law is KingThe Law is KingThe Law is KingThe Law is King The King is LawThe King is Law