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s Executive Interview
POLLSTAR Summer 1998 Page 11
Williams dabbled in a couple ofmusic business-type ventures in col-
lege but was never really serious.After college, he joined the Army.When he got out, he went on the
road with his former bandmateAlex Taylor, James Taylor’s brother.At that time, Williams’ responsibili-ties ranged from playing harmonica
on stage to lugging amplifiers.He stayed on the road with Tay-
lor for a year or so before becoming
road manager for a band calledWhite Witch, which was onCapricorn Records.
He also dabbled in concert pro-moting and artist management atthat time. But he really got into the
“big time” when Alex Hodgesbrought him into the ParagonAgency in 1975.
Williams launched his own com-pany, Nashville-based PGA, in 1994with R.E.M., The Connells, Oingo
Boingo and Widespread Panic,among others. Some of the manyacts on his client roster today are
Sister 7, Whiskeytown, CowboyMouth, Del Amitri, Sponge Monkeyand Guster.
Williams is highly thought ofamongst his peers in the businessand that was reflected when he was
named the winner of the 1997 Con-cert Industry Award for ThirdCoast Agent of the Year.
What were your first artistsignings at Paragon?
Chuck Leavell, who was in the
Alex Taylor Band with me, formed
a band called Sea Level. I worked
closely with Chuck, so that was the
first project that I brought in. Alex
was pretty excited about that.
Then I became responsible
agent for a couple of artists really
quickly and those were the Charlie
Daniels Band and the Atlanta
Rhythm Section.
In those days, good money
meant a lot. We didn’t think so
much about career dates because
competition wasn’t so strong. I
don’t think there were enough
choices to really know what the
career dates were unless you were
playing Las Vegas cabarets, which
would obviously be wrong for
rock bands. But I was able to go
out and earn more money for
those acts than whoever was the
responsible agent before, probably
because I didn’t know better.
The managers for both bands
asked me to be responsible for
them and Alex said, “OK, go for it.”
And I just jumped right in.
Then I tried to learn the differ-
ence between what was a good
thing to do and what was a money
thing to do, which has become
somewhat of a philosophy.
When did you leave Paragon?
Paragon was part of Capricorn
Records, so when the demise of
Capricorn came, we fell prey. I
don’t profess to know what hap-
pened at Capricorn but obviously,
they spent more money than
they made.
Right after Capricorn folded, I
started playing the stock market. I
became a stockbroker and did that
for a couple of years. I had a lot of
fun and I was pretty successful.
Did you remain activein the music business?
Yes I did. During that same
time, I was still working with Sea
Level. Then Badfinger was looking
for an agent, so I took them on.
And I had a couple more acts I was
working with.
I was answering phones with
two hands. The left hand was my
booking phone and the right hand
was my securities phone.
When did you returnfull time to the music business?
Ian Copeland had come to work
for us at Paragon in ’77 or ’78. We
became really close friends and
when we saw Paragon folding, we
decided to open an agency to-
gether. He had The Police and all
these punk and new wave bands
and I had the Atlanta Rhythm
Section, Sea Level and some
other stuff.
At the time, I was living in Ma-
con (Georgia). I had actually
priced going to Atlanta and start-
ing a company there for Ian and
myself. Then he went to New York
for a weekend and came back and
said, “It has to be New York;
Atlanta won’t work for what we’re
doing.” I agreed with him but
had no intention of moving to
New York.
Ian went and started FBI and he
took John Huie, who had also been
working at Paragon, with him.
Ian and I were always talking
during this time period. He knew
that I knew how to make and
handle money. He and his accoun-
tant finally convinced me to come
up to New York and he’d give me a
piece of the company, which I
could earn over time. So that’s
when I actually returned to the
music business. That was in the
early ’80s.
What was your role at FBI?
Well, if Ian was the general, I
was his colonel. He was the per-
sonality and I was the mechanic.
He gets along with artists fa-
mously. And I could make all the
dates work. So, he’d go out and
sign the bands and I would run the
agency part of it. That’s just how
it evolved.
Ian was involved with the
booking to some degree, mostly
overseas, but his job was an
overall picture of talent and mine
Progressive Global Agency owner Buck
Williams got his start in the music business
like many do — playing in a band. When his
bandmates realized Williams could add two and
two and actually come back with $10 to give
everybody, the responsibility of booking gigs landed
on his shoulders.
BUCK WILLIAMSp r o g r e s s i v e g l o b a l a g e n c y
Executive Interview s
Page 12 Summer 1998 POLLSTAR
was an overall picture of running
the company.
Everybody had territories but
Ian. So in reality, we all worked
with all the artists and we didn’t
have a strict responsible agent
setup. Everybody could talk to
every manager.
I worked most closely with The
Bangles and after Huie left, I took
over The Go-Go’s. I was also work-
ing with R.E.M. at the time; I took
them very seriously. I also worked
with Thompson Twins, Joan Jett,
General Public, English Beat and
UB40 as general RA.
It was the very early ’80s and at
one point, we had three out of the
top five albums with Joan Jett, Go-
Go’s and The Police. FBI was abso-
lutely the hottest thing around.
Why did you leave FBI?
When the agency merged with
Intertalent and relocated to Los
Angeles, I decided not to go. They
saw a need for me to be in L.A. but
after looking into it, I decided I
couldn’t make it work. And I didn’t
think that the company was going
to make it after I really got into
the books.
After our first financial meeting
with Intertalent, we found out
they didn’t have as much money
in the bank as FBI. So, “Uh-oh!
Flag here!”
Anyway, we ran into all types of
complications out in L.A. It was a
great agency with a great concept;
they just spent more money than
they were making. I commuted out
there every other week for a year.
But I set some criteria to get me
out there permanently and they
couldn’t really meet that criteria.
How did you end upin Nashville?
When the Intertalent deal first
came up, I had suggested that we
start a music division in Nashville.
At that time, we were talking with
a lot of other agents who were also
sort of looking for a home. We
talked to John Huie, who definitely
wanted to be in Nashville and
didn’t know if he wanted to work
with us or CAA. Also, Alex Kochan
was talking with us.
So Huie and I were going to
open an East Coast office for
Intertalent in Nashville. He repre-
sented Amy Grant and knew a
couple people in Nashville, so we
felt like we would have a foot in
the door.
But it wasn’t going to be strictly
a country thing. It was just going
to be an East Coast office located
in Nashville. But that sort of fell
apart. I think egos got in the way
of who’s going to do what, who’s
going to answer to who and all of
that. So Alex fell out. Huie was
tired of waiting and the idea sort
of went away.
I was already ready to come to
Nashville. I’d talked to the
Monterey people and they were
looking for someone to come over
and try to bring some contempo-
rary ideas to their Nashville office.
So I moved to Nashville and
worked with Monterey Artists for
a little while.
Was going out on your ownthe next step?
It wasn’t really the next step. I
had never really intended on being
out on my own. I had intended on
working with Monterey, but that
didn’t work out.
It just happened that I left
and came out on my own. I did
realize, however, that if I was
going to be out on my own, I bet-
ter do it before the R.E.M. tour
rather than after. That was only
common sense.
Is that the only act that stayedwith you consistently?
No. Everything I took into
Monterey I left with. That was
Oingo Boingo, The Connells, The
Specials, Widespread Panic and
R.E.M., of course. There were
about six acts I was working with.
When Ian and I split, we had a
very amicable parting of the ways.
So the things that I had really
strong relationships with, I took,
and he kept the rest. But it really
wasn’t up to Ian and myself as to
who went with who. It was up to
the artists and the managers.
How quickly did yourown agency come together?
It happened in the blink of an
eye. I was not happy in my current
scenario and I just decided that it
had to be. So I made a couple of
phone calls and got a small staff
together. I went to the bank and
got them to give me a letter of
credit and we just went on. It really
was something that I didn’t put an
enormous amount of thought into.
And I always wanted to be a
professional golfer. I figured, “I
can’t be in the real PGA (Profes-
sional Golfers’ Association), so I’ll
own one.” So I picked the PGA
moniker and then figured out
what it was going to mean.
There’s no question I could have
gone to work at some different
agencies. But first of all, I didn’t
fancy moving again. And secondly,
I never really worked for anyone
else since Paragon. When I worked
with Ian, I didn’t really work forIan. He was just the major share-
holder. I worked for myself and we
worked together.
I had already tried the boutique
agency with Monterey and as for
the rest of the major corporations,
I didn’t have any idea that I would
be what they needed. I would have
gone in as a line agent somewhere
and that didn’t suit me too much.
That would burn what little
ego I have so I just started my
own company.
I brought in a couple of agents
right away. I brought in Scott
Clayton who was basically run-
ning part of Cellar Door’s agency
business out of Washington, D.C.,
and I brought in Brian Hill who
had been an assistant at CAA.
Then we hired a couple of people
to do the support and off we went.
Did you start signingother acts right away ordid you just work primarilywith your initial roster?
Initially, we were being very
selective. We consider ourselves
pretty selective right now, too. But
at the time, I didn’t want to bring
in a huge roster with a, quote-
unquote, relatively green staff. So
we just sort of stuck with what we
had early on.
Then in order to keep the agents
happy, you’ve got to give them an
opportunity to branch out and
grow. In our business, the only way
you can really, really grow and
make money is to sign and be re-
sponsible for acts that make a lot
of money.
THE STAFF THAT TEES IT UP everyday at PGA are (L-R) Jason Pitzer, Beth Barnett,Sonata Stanton (seated), Patti Williams, Todd McCord, the Buckaroo himself,Pam Clayton, Scott Clayton and Chris Tanner.
s Executive Interview
POLLSTAR Summer 1998 Page 13
I don’t consider booking a job
that creates revenue. I consider
signing the artist as creating the
revenue. So I’ve given the agents at
PGA the opportunity to go out
and sign what they believe in.
Do you think it’s importantfor an act to have developed itsown fan base regionally beforetaking it to a national level?
I absolutely do. Although, every
now and again, we will sign an act
prematurely just because we be-
lieve in it and we don’t want some-
one else to get it.
Sometimes that’s a mistake be-
cause we are only geared to a cer-
tain level. We can’t keep bands
working in bars on a local basis. I
can’t afford for the agents at PGA
to take the time to do it.
But I really believe in develop-
ing an act regionally. I believe in
playing fraternities and playing
anything you can to spread the
word. Certainly, that’s what Dave
Matthews and Widespread Panic
did. It’s probably what Phish
did, too.
Does that philosophy work wellwith bands that don’t have a lotof radio play or MTV exposure?
Yeah, it does. I don’t even know
what the genre is right now but
you see a lot of acts like Wide-
spread Panic, Phish and Leftover
Salmon that have huge fan bases
without radio and MTV support.
Speaking of radio, I have a big
problem with what I call “airmail,”
which, to me, is simply blackmail.
Radio stations say, “If you don’t
play on my radio show, we will not
play your record. And not only will
I not play your record, but nobody
in my chain is going to play your
record.” That happens every
single day. So I like sticking with
the bands that are not totally
dependent on airplay.
Don’t get me wrong, however. I
love airplay. And I’m a strong ad-
vocate of selling records. It’s just
really important that an artist de-
velops and maintains its own im-
age and integrity. That’s hard to do
just playing radio shows when
you’re one of many acts and only
get a really short set.
Do you have a strongopinion on the value oftouring festivals?
From my standpoint, an artist
can build some credibility from
being associated with festivals, de-
pending on the tour. But in the
long run, I don’t know if they
really build fans for
young artists. But I
do think they build
a much greater
awareness of the
artist in the media.
I think festivals
are a fun thing to
do in the summer.
They are a lot dif-
ferent from playing
the clubs and the-
atres. They make
the artists feel good
and they get to play
on a bigger stage.
But I think it is
important to look
at what you’re going to get out of
the festival. This summer, Wide-
spread Panic is going out and we’re
taking anywhere from one to four
other acts with us in different
markets. We’re not calling it a
festival; it’s Widespread Panic and
their friends.
And we’re not
charging festival
prices, which I
think has been the
biggest error for
festivals right now.
They think people
will pay more to
see more and I re-
ally don’t believe
that. First of all, I
think it’s a pain for
someone to have
to sit there for six
hours, so why have
them pay more
for it?
From an artist’s
standpoint, you’ve
just got to look at
what you’re going
to get out of it and
attack it that way.
If you think you’re
going to play a festival and sell
millions of records afterwards, I
think you’re going to probably be
mistaken and disappointed. But if
you look at them as fun, as a way
of generating generally pretty
good revenue and a way to gener-
ate good press, your association
with a festival can create some re-
ally good things. It’s just a way of
spreading the word more.
But I think you just need to be
careful, particularly with young
artists. Nobody’s going to pay $35
to see the young artist so they, to
some degree, alienate their fans by
participating in a festival. Like on
the H.O.R.D.E. tour last year, the
price was too high for the people
who didn’t want to see Neil Young
but wanted to see Colonel Bruce
Hampton.
What is your opinionon the trend of concert ticketsbeing priced at $75 or higher?
I just think it’s outrageous, but
we’re the ones who are somewhat
setting that. As an agent, I think it’s
outrageous but yet, if an act needs
a half-million dollars, for instance,
well, you’ve got to pay them. So, it’s
sort of like a two-sided sword.
But I really think ticket prices
have gotten way out of line. I think
in the very near future, maybe
even this summer, you’re going to
see a lot of them coming down.
Not all of them; some are still go-
ing up. Particularly the prices for
some of the older artists are going
to continue to climb because they
think they can get it, which they
can. Their demographic is the
yuppie stockbroker-type person
who doesn’t really care; they just
as soon get their tickets from a
broker anyway.
But I’m not happy. I don’t want
to pay that much to see someone.
My kids can’t afford to go see
them. So, I think ticket prices are
way too high for the most part.
And it’s not just the ticket price.
It’s all the add-ons. By the time you
finish with Ticketmaster by tele-
phone, it’s six bucks, then five
bucks for the order per ticket, and
then you’ve got the facility sur-
charges and the parking. You could
add maybe 40 or 50 percent to the
ticket price.
But maybe if the artist was to
participate in those revenues,
maybe those ticket prices and all
these things could come down a
little bit.
CHASING LITTLE WHITE BALLS around in the sand traps areR.E.M’s Mike Mills, manager Bertis Downs, Buck and nowretired R.E.M. drummer Bill Berry.
IT’S EITHER a doctored photo or Buck really did catcha big one.
Executive Interview s
Page 14 Summer 1998 POLLSTAR
Doesn’t that go back tothe issue of everybody wantinga piece of each others’ pie?What is going to happenwhen artists want part of afacilities’ sponsorship revenueand vice versa?
It’ll never end, at this point. It’s
just going to be a vicious circle.
There’s no way to come to terms
with it, certainly not in the near
future. A venue can’t afford to let
an artist in on all of the things that
they need to be in on.
I don’t know when we as agents
and managers let it get out of con-
trol. And from a promoter’s stand-
point, I know how many money
making shows it takes to wipe out
one big loss.
But there are very few artists
that could give a crap what a pro-
moter loses. They only care what a
promoter makes. So, it’s a two-
sided thing. I just don’t see where
it could ever end now. I really
don’t.
What do you think aboutthe overall health of theconcert industry?
I think it’s pretty dodgy. I don’t
know where it’s going right now.
You see all the conglomerates
coming in who could care less
about our business.
I think you’re going to see agen-
cies go two ways, probably. You’re
going to see real small, boutique
agencies, or maybe even indi-
vidual agents going into business
for themselves and handling one
or two acts.
And you will see the mega-
agencies which, in my opinion,
rarely can give the service that an
artist needs, particularly when in
trouble.
People have asked why I won
the Third Coast Agent of the Year
award this year? Well, probably be-
cause I had been nominated so
many times and never got it be-
fore. But the only year I really ever
should have won it, the year I
think I did a better job than any
other agent in the country, was the
year R.E.M. was out and all these
things happened on that tour.
That year, three of the band
members in R.E.M. had surgery
during their tour. I had to work
very closely with those situations
and assure promoters that when
we moved dates, they would be
looked after. Trying to keep every-
body happy in a situation like that
was very, very tough. It was a very
tough year.
My point is, I don’t think R.E.M.
could have gotten that service with
any agent at a larger firm. I know
every other agent would argue
this, obviously, but I really don’t
think they could have gotten that
service from anybody. Of course,
R.E.M. is a labor of love.
The R.E.M. tour was really de-
manding. There were a lot of times
when I had to fly to different parts
of the world to discuss reschedul-
ing shows with R.E.M. and return
quickly with answers for promot-
ers then get back and sit down
with R.E.M. and work things out.
The band members in R.E.M.
are very involved with their tour-
ing career. Quite frankly, that
keeps it really fun, too, because
they come up with some quirky
questions. And they are really
great people and fun to be around.
What is your outlook on thefuture of the concert business?
I see a lot of major changes but I
don’t know what they’re going to
be. But I know that we’re not going
to stay right where we are.
I think from an agency stand-
point, you’re going to see some
changes made. I don’t know
whether big agencies are going to
consume little ones or if you’re go-
ing to see people splintering off
and doing their own thing or both.
I mean, already you’ve seen
some pretty major changes in the
agency business from seven or
eight years ago. Look how things
have changed just since 1990.
Monterey was a small one-office
company and now, they have three
offices and I don’t know how many
acts. And CAA came to Nashville
four years ago and now they virtu-
ally own the town.
I think you’re going to see a lot
of agencies down-sizing. And, like
I said, it’s got to go one way or an-
other. How long can some of these
big agencies keep a music depart-
ment? They’ve got to be losing
millions.
So, is the size of PGA’s rosterclose to ideal for you?
It’s not the number of artists
you have, it’s how many you have
working at one time. That’s really
the important ratio.
I think we’ve got about 38 artists
now on the roster, and there’s basi-
cally three agents and myself right
now. But I’m going to lose one
agent. Todd McCord is going back
to graduate school and I’m not go-
ing to replace him.
If an agent feels comfortable
working about four acts at one
time, that’s a pretty good load if
he’s really doing a good job.
If you get much bigger than
that, you can’t give the kind of ser-
vice I want. Everybody’s going to
claim that they can take care of
more tours than that, but if you
check with some of the tour man-
agers and tour accountants out
there, you see how many artists are
really getting taken care of by their
agents.
Scott Clayton is basically in
charge of booking at PGA and
does a fantastic job. He’s built him-
self up to be a really great agent in
the four years he’s been here. I am
really excited to see his growth.
Also, I’m really excited about hav-
ing Chris Tanner join us.
I oversee the majority of
the booking slips and I read
the reports everyday. I look at
every single booking slip on
Whiskeytown that comes in and I
ask a lot of questions about the
ticket price and this, that and the
other. But Scott does a really good
job and he should take some credit
when they talk about me as the
Third Coast Agent of the Year.
Last year, I was probably less
active in booking than I’d been in
my life, so Scott, Chris and Todd
are the ones that should really get
the credit. But of course, I’m the
point person for Widespread
Panic, The Connells and do R.E.M.
pretty much by myself. I just hap-
pen to own this joint. *
HANGIN’ BACKSTAGE during the last R.E.M. tour are (L-R seated) Stephen Baker fromWarner Bros., PGA pro Davis Love III and manager Bertis Downs. (Standing) ScottLitt from Outpost Records, Mike Mills, Bill Berry, Buck, Outpost’s Mark Williams andWarner’s Dave Dannheisser.
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