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Rick Paul Message 1 of 9 , 23 Aug, 2011

I have now gotten the bite sensor working. More on that, andother notes incontext, below:

> -----Original Message-----> From: [email protected][mailto:[email protected]] On> Behalf Of Geoffrey> Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2011 6:01 PM>> > Actually, there is vibrato speed and depth control in Mr. SaxT. Bydefault> > this is CC#1 for vibrato intensity (depth) and CC#19 forvibrato rate.If> > you look in the Mr. Sax T. display inside Kontakt (at leastwith V1.51of> > Mr. Sax T. in the Kontakt 4 Player), you will see graphicindicators for> > both of these. If you have the default EWI USB settings,you should see> the> > C1 indicator move when you use the bite sensor.>> Nope! See below. [I am also using V1.51 of Mr. Sax T. in theKontakt 4Player]

Sorry, I was incorrect on the default EWI USB settings. Ithought it wasconfigured for CC#127 and CC#1, but it was only configuredfor CC#127, withthe second bite sensor set to OFF. Thus you would not see theC1 control inMr. Sax T. respond as I'd suggested above.

However, the rest of my note is correct, specifically with

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> My understanding is very basic. However, FWIW when Imake my own jaw> vibrato with any setting other than Wind Control 2, nothingmuch moves> except the 2 horizontal bars to the right of the Tune knob -and theeffect is> an unnatural sounding wobbling in pitch.

The horizontal bars to the right of the tune knob are the volumeindicatorsfor left and right channels, and this is exactly the effect I wasdescribingon what I was getting when I was trying to employ the bitecontrol and wasgetting an effect from wind pressure changes caused by mybiting effort,which was probably more like tremolo (i.e. instead of waveringin pitch,like with vibrato, it wavers in amplitude).

> When do the same with Wind Control 2, however, there is aclear variationin> the Dynam indicator only. And the vibrato sound is muchmore pleasant.

The Dynam indicator seems to just be a measure of dynamicsfrom pp to ff, somostly relates to breath pressure (CC#2) or expression(CC#11). However, Ialso see that it moves differently from the expression meteronce vibratogets going, whereas it doesn't when it is just a tremolo effect.

> Either way, the Vib:C1 indicator bar stays nonexistent, andthe VR;C19stays> fixed at about half way.

I couldn't find an explanation for what the Wind Controller 2setting isdoing behind the scenes, but one thing that is certain is it hasto bereading some control value (see below) and making it behavelike vibrato.In any case, it obviously does not reflect whatever it is doing inthe CC1and CC19 controls/meters in the Kontakt 4 display (the reasonwill be clearin a bit).

> So the default behaviour of the bite sensor seems to beunrelated to C1 or> C19 - rather, it changes the Dynam only.

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rest of the controls were sending). However, it turns out that

bite sensor settings does not send CC#127. Rather, it sends

bite sensorworking. More on the specifics below in context.

> And it only does that if you 'vibrate'> your jaw fairly fast - otherwise (e.g. under constant toothpressure)nothing> changes. It seems to be designed to only pick up vibrato-likechanges in> pressure.

I found your note on the vibrating jaw interesting because I hadnot triedthat before. I had specifically been just trying to apply pressure,eitherwith lips or teeth, so I thought maybe that was what I had beenmissing.And somewhere along the lines leading to my getting this towork I thoughtmaybe that had been the trick that got me to get it working, ifseeminglyintermittently. In particular, when I was testing with the bitesensor setto send CC#1 and CC#19, I could only seem to get little blipsof controldata recorded, and fairly unpredictably at that. However, then Inoted Icould more consistently get vibrato happening and sustaining ifI simplyapplied a lot of bite pressure. (Note: I'm pretty sure this issomethingI'd tried before, too, so I don't think this was the only key. Moreon thatbelow.)

In fact, I'd missed the part you mentioned about constant toothpressure inaddition to the jaw movement, but once I got that, then wentback to theCC#127 setting for the EWI and the Wind Controller 2 settingin Kontakt, Icould get more like what you were describing and get it moreconsistent.

Experimenting more with both sets of settings, I think Iunderstand what ishappening. The pressure gets the CCs the bite sensor iscontrolling engagedto some level based on the pressure applied. The jawing upand down variesthe CC values and reengages it as my understanding fromsomething I read wasthe bite sensor will only spike for awhile then reset to zero. Thebehavioris actually different, though, when using the default of CC#127and other




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only gets short bursts of data before resolving to zero to avoid

stuck out of tune. If you want longer vibrato, you have to keep

values aresent, and you can keep the vibrato flowing by just maintainingpressure onthe bite sensor. In this case, if you jaw it, the CC values go upand down,as you might expect, but doing that isn't necessary to maintainvibratosince Mr. Sax T. sees the CC#1 and CC#19 values arenon-zero, so itprocesses them directly as vibrato rate and depth. Whereaswith the CC#127setting, all Mr. Sax T. sees is pitch modulation, so that has tokeep comingto maintain vibrato. (Whether Mr. Sax T. is just modulating pitchper thepitch wheel data or interpreting that and translating it into someothertypes of settings, I have no clue.)

The net is that, when the bite sensor is working, either settingcan workwith Mr. Sax T., as long as the settings and the EWI and Mr.Sax T. areconsistent. I will probably stick with the CC#1 and CC#19defaults in Mr.Sax T. for the simple reason that I can use these same defaultsin quite anumber of other instruments, thus making me need to changeEWIconfigurations less frequently. For a similar reason, I will likelykeepthe breath sensor set to send expression (CC#11) in addition tobreath(CC#2) since that means I can use it with lots of synths andsuch withouthaving to tweak the synth-side settings as many (most?)respond toexpression in a way that is equivalent to how breath supportshould work.

The bottom line is you can use either method to work with Mr.Sax T., butyour playing style may need to be different, at least withrespect tovibrato, depending on which case you use.

> > The key, though, is that no MIDI data gets recorded.> > the bite sensor should be sending whatever> > MIDI control signals it is configured to send when you biteon thesensor.>> From what I see, there is no separate MIDI signal from thebite sensor inmy> default configuration - there should be a variation in the




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though. As noted above, though, it turns out not to be CC data

pitch wheel data.

elementary. I can't> get> > the bit sensor to send data at all.>> As I said, I think it only modifies the existing data stream.

This is sort of true and sort of not true, and it depends on howyou havethe EWI bite sensor configured.

If you use the default setting of CC#127 only, then it is sort oftrue inthe sense that there are two ways to send pitch wheel data,one being thepitch plates down in the right thumb area and the other beingusing the bitesensor to send short bursts of pitch up/down data, which youcan extend tolonger periods of data through the jawing you mentioned.

If, on the other hand, you use other settings for the bite sensor,such asmy CC#1 and CC#19 settings, then actual CC data is added tothe stream.

Either way, the data, be it CC data or pitch bend data, will berecorded bywhatever DAW you happen to use for recording MIDI data.

The big question is why my bite sensor is working now when itwasn'tpreviously. I wasn't even getting short bursts of data with any ofthesettings previously. It's at least possible it was due to bitingtechnique,and your notes on your technique definitely helped me getmore ideas there.It's also quite likely my switching back and forth betweendifferentsettings that behaved very differently (i.e. CC data versus pitchwheeldata) got me confused in areas where I wasn't actuallyrecording the output,since the effect on Kontakt gauges is much harder to read thanMIDI data ina DAW. Nevertheless, I think I'd have seen at least someactivity throughall my trial and error attempts at getting the thing to work,observing theKontakt gauges, and recording MIDI data from the controller.

The one additional thing I did today was took the mouthpieceoff again. I'drecalled from the link I posted the other day(http://www.ewiusb.com/breakdown) that the guy noted makinghis bite sensor




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7 more message

but I really wasn't clear what was going on or how it should

mouthpiece. This time I looked more into the mouthpiece, now

and I made sureI was lining up the bite sensors innards with the hole that theyneed to fitinside. While I can't imagine they'd fit outside of that, I did havea bitof a time making it fit inside, so maybe there was justsomething misalignedlast time.

In any case, once I got the mouthpiece back on and startedexperimentingwith KONTAKT again, just with my CC#1/CC#19 settings,doing the jawing stuffyou'd mentioned, I noticed the CC1 and CC19 meters move inKontakt, and thatwas a first. They only blipped, though, and I couldn't seem togetconsistent behavior. Then I went back and forth betweensettings, trying tofigure things out, eventually arriving at the understandings Iwrote aboutabove with the different behaviors in the two modes and howthose interactwith Mr. Sax T.

It's conceivable something is just intermittent in my unit, but thebottomline, at least for now, is that the control seems to be working aslong as Ikeep in mind the different techniques for the different controlsettings and"play" it accordingly. And I also understand the mechanism awhole lotbetter. Now to get back to making more music with it!

Rick===============================================Rick PaulCloset Cowboy Music (ASCAP)Main Web Site: http://www.RickPaul.infoStudio Page: http://studio.RickPaul.infoFacebook: http://www.facebook.com/rickpaulmusic===============================================




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