Name

Address

Occupation

Date

••

~

ft .

Statement

Moshe David GUTNICK

Known to the Royal Commission

Rabbi

9 February 2015

Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse

1. This statement made by me accurately sets out the evidence that I am prepared to give

to the Royal Commission into Institutional Responses to Child Sexual Abuse. The

statement is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

2. The purpose of this statement is to supplement my previous statements to the Royal

Commission dated 2 January 2015 and 3 February 2015 (my previous statements) .

make this supplementary statement after a request by the counsel assisting the Royal

Commission to clarify aspects of a private email that I sent to Rabbi Yoseph Feldman

on 27 July 2011 and having read the transcript of the evidence that was given to the

Royal Commission by Rabbi Feldman on 6 February 2015.

Reporting child sexual abuse to the police

3. I refer to Rabbi Feldman's evidence at C6456.37 to C6456.44, C6457.36 to C6458.24,

C6473.12 to C6473.17, and C6474.44 to C6475.22 where he expressed the view that,

in the first instance, people "should" immediately report some instances of alleged child

sexual abuse to a rabbi first, instead of the police. Rabbi Feldman sought to invoke my

evidence before the Royal Commission in support of this view (see C6456.37 and

C6474.44 to C6475.3). In doing so, Rabbi Feldman seriously misrepresented my

evidence before the Royal Commission.

4. I unequivocally reject the view expressed by Rabbi Feldman, and I totally reject any

assertion that my evidence to the Royal Commission, or any statement that I have

made on this issue, supports his view in any way whatsoever. Quite the contrary. In my

ORA apology in September 2013 referred to in my previous statements, I stated as

follows: "An issue of child sexual abuse must be reported to the police immediately and

perpetrators must be brought to justice." (C6278.19 - C6278.21 ). In my evidence

before the Royal Commission on 4 February 2015, I said:

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Statement of Moshe GUTNICK continued

"I believe it is an absolute religious obligation to report any allegation of child

sexual abuse as quickly as possible to the appropriate authorities, and to

suggest that there is some religious obligation not to do so is an abomination."

(C6270.32 - C6270.36)

That statement represents my true position.

5. I also rejected the proposition that there is any obligation to consult a rabbi before

reporting any instance of alleged child sexual abuse. In answer to questions from

Commissioner Murray (C6292.28 - C6292.4 7) I said as follows:

COMMISSIONER MURRAY: Before you move to the rest of the bar, Rabbi

Gutnick, I just want to ask you a couple of questions. I just want to check with

you. Is there any Halachic or community obl igation - those two separate

issues - to seek permission from a rabbi before going to the police on child

sexual abuse?

A. None whatsoever.

COMMISSIONER MURRAY: And is there any Halachic or community

obligation to seek the advice of a rabbi before going to the police on a matter

of child sexual abuse?

A. One minor qualification. If you hear a rumour and you are not sure whether

you act on that rumour and you have absolutely no evidence, you may want to

ask a rabbi. But in any normal situation where you become aware or you

might ask a friend or a lawyer, someone who has a bit more brains who will

help you to decide whether this is just a fleeting rumour or there is something

of substance, anything of even the slightest substance you must immediately

go to the police.

6. I have made my position absolutely clear on this point. I have done so consistently. I

wish to reiterate that position. There is absolutely no obl igation or expectation that

anyone should first consult a rabbi about any alleged child sexual abuse before

approaching the secular authorities. Of course, people who are unsure about the

veracity of any allegations are free to seek help or advice from another person whose

judgment or opinion they respect, and that person may happen to be a rabbi . But my

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position is clear: there is never any requirement or expectation to do so. As I stated in

my evidence to the Commission, any allegation of child sexual abuse "of even the

slightest substance .. . must immediately go to the police".

AVL

7. I refer to Rabbi Feldman's evidence at C6491.20 to C6491.32, C6494.35-C6494.36

and C6495.19 to C6495.22 in wh ich REDACTED

8.

9. I reject the assertions set out in paragraphs 7 and 8.

10. As I set out in paragraphs 19 to 22 of my previous statement dated 2 January 2015, I

was not involved in any way with AVL's departure to the United States. I was not aware

of the allegations against AVL prior to or at the time of his departure to the United

States. Indeed, I was not aware of AVL's departure to the United States until after it

had occurred.

11. I did give AVL semicha. This required that I administer an oral examination to test his

knowledge of specific aspects of Jewish law. I conducted this examination by

telephone. It took between 30 and 60 minutes. I was not required to assess or warrant

his character.

12. Most male members of the Chabad community obtain semicha in order to equip

themselves to marry and participate in a family according to Orthodox Jewish law, and

many do so without subsequently calling themselves rabbi. It is very unusual for

someone in the Chabad community not to receive semicha. At the time I understood

from AVL's father that AVL would not practise as or call himself a rabbi. Obtaining

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semicha would not of itself place AVL in contact or proximity with children, or in any

way provide or facilitate opportunities to do so.

13. As I have said, before agreeing to give AVL semicha I spoke with AVL's father, who

assured me that AVL was being treated and monitored by others in the US. I had also

been told that the Brooklyn District Attorney was aware of the allegations against AVL.

His father pleaded with me that AVL's willingness to participate fully in treatment would

be enhanced by him feeling that he was not different to everyone else in his

community. This was reiterated to me by his therapist.

14. REDACTED

15. REDACTED

16.

17. My belief was based on discussions I had at the time with several members of the

community, including my brother, Avraham Gutnick. I believe my brother Avraham had

previously been employed in an administrative role at Yeshiva Bondi, but he was no

longer employed there at the time of AVL's departure. My brother specifically told me

that AVL had told him that he was encouraged to leave by Rabbi Pinchus Feldman.

18. I cannot now recall or identify who I spoke to on this subject, apart from my brother. I

do recall that there was general talk to the effect that Rabbi Pinchus Feldman had

encouraged AVL to leave the country. I believed those statements to be true at the

time. I was encouraged in this belief by the speed with which AVL had departed.

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Statement in the matter of Yeshivah College Case Study 22 Statement of Moshe GUTNICK continued

Signed:

Date:

Witness:

Date:

Signature: .................................................. .

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Witness: .................................................. .

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