2834 the court: all right. mr. strolla,...
TRANSCRIPT
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2834
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Strolla, two
things: One, I got a message that earlier you
couldn't be heard and I suspect it was because I
let everybody sit at the table and I thought those
microphones at the table would pick up what people
were saying but it didn't. I don't know if they
were not on or it just didn't pick up, whatever,
but now we're back to the body mics so you'll be
good. Mr. Guy, I think you'll do the same so that
will help.
So, Mr. Strolla, you ready to proceed?
MR. STROLLA: So ready, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Is the state ready to proceed?
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Mr. Strolla, your next witness.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, we would call Michael
Dunn.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dunn, if you'll
stand up and come forward. And we've already had
our conversation about your testimony.
THE DEFENDANT: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And if you'll raise your right
hand the clerk will administer the oath.
MICHAEL DUNN,
having been produced and first duly sworn as a witness
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2835
on his own behalf, testified as follows:
THE WITNESS: I do.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dunn, if you'll
come around and have a seat over here at the table
or the witness chair. And at the attorneys'
request we're handling Mr. Dunn being seated in the
witness chair before the jury comes out, is that
correct, Mr. Strolla?
MR. STROLLA: Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: And again is that no objection
from the state?
MR. GUY: Correct.
THE COURT: All right. Bring the jurors on
in.
(Jury in at 10:30 a.m..)
THE COURT: Good morning, ladies and
gentlemen, and welcome back. You can have a seat.
I apologize for a little bit of a late start but we
had some matters that we just had to tend to. I'm
hopeful that it will mean we've streamlined a few
things as we go forward, so rest assured that we
were working while you were waiting for us.
Mr. Strolla, you ready to proceed?
MR. STROLLA: So ready, Your Honor.
THE COURT: State ready to proceed?
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2836
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: And, Mr. Strolla, your next
witness.
MR. STROLLA: Thank you, Your Honor. We call
Michael Dunn.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen,
obviously Mr. Dunn is here on the stand. He has
been sworn so he took the oath and is under oath
and ready to testify. Mr. Strolla.
MR. STROLLA: Thank you, Your Honor.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Good morning, Mr. Dunn. How are you?
A Good morning. Fine, thanks.
Q Can you please introduce yourself to the
jury?
A Hello, good morning, I'm Michael Dunn,
D-U-N-N.
Q And how old are you?
A I'm 47.
Q And what line of work are you in?
A I'm a computer programmer and software
developer.
Q And is that your background?
A Yes, for the past 22 years I've progressed
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with experience in that field.
Q And any type of physical work or manual
labor, anything like that?
A No, unfortunately I had a motorcycle accident
as a young man and I'm fairly sedentary, not too much
sports, things like that.
Q And based on that motorcycle did you sustain
pretty good injuries?
A Yes, to my lower back.
Q Okay. And was that motorcycle accident
actually with your now ex-wife, Phyllis Molinaro?
A Yes, it was. That's Christopher's mom and I
when we were both teenagers.
Q Now to kind of fast-forward a little bit, do
you still have the recollection of the week and the
weekend of November 23rd, 2012?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. Can you tell the jury prior to coming
to Jacksonville -- let me ask you this: Why did you
come to Jacksonville that Thanksgiving weekend?
A For my son's wedding specifically.
Q And that was Chris Dunn?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. And did you make any arrangements with
Ms. Rouer?
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A Well, we came together.
Q Well, that's what -- but did you make
arrangements for the whole weekend is what I'm meaning?
A Oh, absolutely. We were going to be up
Thursday night to attend the wedding Friday and then
Friday night we were going to -- I'm saying it wrong.
We were going to stay in town two nights. Saturday
night we were going to be in St. Augustine at a bed and
breakfast that was also pet friendly.
Q Okay. And you just mentioned pet friendly.
Did you choose a hotel in Jacksonville for that reason?
A Yeah. We found a website that listed all the
pet friendly hotels in the area. Where our wedding was
in Orange Park we actually found a hotel that was a
little far away just because it was pet friendly.
Q Okay. So again is it safe to assume that was
probably the closest one to the wedding area where
everybody lived?
A Yes, it was.
Q Okay. And how old was your puppy?
A Seven months old.
Q That was at the time in 2012?
A Yes.
Q And did you purchase that puppy? Did you
adopt it? Was it you and Ms. Rouer's decision to get a
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dog together?
A Yeah. It was our decision together, and we
purchased it.
Q Okay. And how long had you been with
Ms. Rouer?
A At that time three-and-a-half, four years.
Q Okay.
A May of '08 when we started going out.
Q Okay. Did you have a serious relationship
with her?
A Absolutely. She's my fiance.
Q Okay. Were you living with her at the time?
A Yes, we were.
Q Okay. And how long were you living together?
A We were together three-and-a-half years. We
were living for three of those.
Q Okay.
A So we dated about six months before things
got serious.
Q Okay. And where was this -- I guess we'll
call it a premarital home. Where were you guys living
at that time? You don't have to give me an exact
address but what area?
A It was South Patrick Shores, commonly
referred to as Satellite Beach.
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Q All right. And did you live there the entire
three years together?
A No, we did not.
Q Okay. When did you move there?
A We had been there almost -- I think we had
just renewed our year lease so we coming up on our
second year there.
Q Okay. And how would you characterize
Satellite Beach?
A Small beach community.
Q Friendly neighborhood?
A Very much so. We were just south of Patrick
Air Force base so we had young people in the area,
surfers, an eclectic group, retirees. I mean it was --
it was a nice community.
Q Okay. And even -- I believe, correct me if
I'm wrong, you lived close to the beach?
A We were on the beach. Our back yard and then
there was a dune and then there was a beach.
Q Okay. And was that beach also pet friendly
and accessible to animals?
A Yes, it was.
Q And is that one of the reasons why you guys
decided to get a dog together?
A Yeah. All the neighbors -- I mean a few --
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quite a few of the neighbors in our area if you will,
it was like eight different townhouses, and most of
them had pets, and that was kind of what prompted us to
get one.
Q And this was a small subdivision? You said
there was about eight condo units?
A Yes.
Q Townhouse units?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And when you drove up to Jacksonville,
did you make arrangements to take care of the dog? I
mean did you bring supplies for the dog, things like
that?
A Yes, we did. We brought crates, food, things
like that specifically for him.
Q And do you have children?
A They're all grown.
Q Okay. Does Ms. Rouer have children?
A Yes. They're all grown as well.
Q Was this dog kind of your guys' child?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And what was his name?
A His name is Charlie.
Q Obviously you were close with Charlie even
after seven months with him?
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A Yeah. If I were home, of course, he was with
me but when I would -- even when I would go into the
office I would take him.
Q And what kind of dog is Charlie?
A It's a French Bulldog.
Q What size is he?
A He's very small. I mean at seven months old
he was maybe 15 pounds. I think he's pushing 25, 30
now.
Q Okay. And did you guys have any issues
coming up to Jacksonville driving up and then checking
into the hotel?
A None at all.
Q Okay. At some point did you bring alcohol
with you into the hotel with Ms. Rouer?
A Yes, we did. We brought our own, quote,
unquote, supplies.
Q Okay. And obviously going to a hotel, even
if you go to the bar could be quite expensive to have a
few drinks?
A That, and it was as holiday weekend.
Everything was going to be closed.
Q Okay. And again do you and Ms. Rouer enjoy
adult beverages while you have dinner, watch T.V.,
things like that?
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A Yes, we do.
Q Okay. Obviously again we heard some
discussions about you. Where did you grow up?
A In the Florida Keys.
Q Okay. Comparing yourself drinking back --
growing up as a teenager in The Keys till now, a little
bit different?
A Very much so.
Q Okay. Now do you hold a pilot's license?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. And how long have you had a pilot's
license?
A Since 2005.
Q Okay. And how -- how would it affect your
pilot's license if you had too much to drink or got in
trouble for drinking?
A They will revoke your license.
Q Okay. And we kind of heard some of your
family friends and your parents' neighbors testify.
Did you get your pilot's license to kind of be in part
of that group?
A Yes.
Q And how often did you go and spend weekends
and nights at your dad's house with the -- for the
planes?
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A Every weekend.
Q Okay.
A Every Saturday and sometimes Saturday and
Sunday.
Q Okay. And would you go there during the week
at night to help your dad work on the plane, help
neighbors work together?
A Yeah. Dad usually hosted dinner parties,
just informal get-togethers and so we would come by
there to enjoy time with them.
Q And would that also include holidays? Would
the community kind of get together for holidays even?
A Yeah. It's a fairly tight-knit group. If
they weren't at Mom and Dad's house they would be at
somebody else's house, but it was the same crowd of
people going from house to house.
Q Okay. The day of your son's wedding did you
wake up and pour any drinks?
A No, we did not.
Q Prior to driving over there, did you pour
yourself a drink?
A No.
Q Okay. Had Ms. Rouer, your fiance, ever met
that kind of side of your -- I guess former -- your
ex-wife, her in-laws, things like that?
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A She hadn't met anybody but she had seen
pictures of Christopher on Facebook, things like that
but hadn't met him in person.
Q Okay. Kind of nervous experience?
A I was going to add that she was very
apprehensive of meeting them.
Q Was that because of how she thought maybe she
wouldn't be received?
A Exactly. She was worried about that.
Q Any issues at the wedding? Did anybody have
any apprehension with welcoming Ms. Rouer as your
fiance?
A No, they made her feel very welcomed.
Q And then obviously you heard your ex-wife
testify?
A Yes, I did.
Q And that was Phyllis Molinaro?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Same thing, were there any concerns
even with your ex-in-laws, your ex-brother-in-law,
ex-mother-in-law, any type of animosity or hard
feelings?
A Towards me?
Q Yes.
A No. Everybody was happy to see me. I was
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happy to see everybody. It was -- you know, it was a
nice time.
Q Okay. At any point in that evening did you
have an alcoholic beverage?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. How many do you recall having?
A Not many. I mean they were small so, you
know, if I had a couple it was -- I would say Rhonda's
characterization of three to four is probably accurate.
Q Okay. And again we kind of see the little,
small styrofoam cups in here today.
A That's like a half a drink.
Q Okay. And would that be accurate as to kind
of the cups at the wedding?
A Absolutely.
Q All right. And when I -- did you hear me ask
them kind of was it a Solo cup? Do you know what a
Solo cup is?
A Yes, I do.
Q Would those be significantly larger than what
they had at the wedding?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. Did you bring any of your own supplies
in your pocket? Did you bring a flask, anything like
that?
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A No, absolutely not. We were there to meet --
you know, to be respectful to the wedding, not to
partake as it were.
Q Okay. And were you also going to the bar to
get Rhonda drinks?
A Yes, I was.
Q Okay. And then apparently does Ms. Rouer
like white wine?
A She prefers white over red.
Q Okay. Did they have any white wine at the
wedding?
A No, they did not.
Q Okay. So were you going to get her drinks of
rum and Cokes, the same thing you had been drinking,
for her that evening?
A Yes, I was.
Q Okay. Any effects of that alcohol at all on
you?
A No. I would have a small glass and then I
would do a water, plus we were eating so --
Q And that's what I was asking, did they have
appetizers? Did they have an entree, main course,
things like that?
A Yeah. They had a full buffet. It was a
full-on dinner.
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Q And did you eat the buffet?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you ever go back for seconds?
A I think I did.
Q At that time were you working out or anything
like that, any type of physical fitness?
A I'm sorry to say, no.
Q Okay. Was that a topic of you and your
fiance about --
A Yes, it was.
Q She kind of made fun of you about the --
A Well, that and she was exercising and working
out at the time trying to get me to -- to do it with
her.
Q Now at some point did you have conversations
with family and friends there at the wedding?
A Absolutely.
Q Again when you walked out and you left, can
you tell the jury why you left your son's wedding?
A Well, we left early. We -- I apologized for
leaving early but I had warned them ahead of time that
we were going to have to take off about 7:00 o'clock
because Charlie was in the room by himself in a crate
and he was going to need a potty break.
Q Okay. And how far away was the wedding from
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the hotel that you were at that was pet friendly, drive
time?
A Roughly half hour, 30 to 40 minutes.
Q Okay. And again there was some discussion
earlier about you had lived in Jacksonville how many
years ago?
A It was 1995 so it's almost 15 years, is that
right?
Q Okay. Are you familiar -- did you memorize
Jacksonville? Did you know exactly where you were when
you came back up?
A Some things were familiar. The 295 loop was.
I seem to recall N.A.S. was west on that somehow, but I
had stayed at my brother-in-law's apartment when I was
here during the week.
Q So did you ever take up residence or have
your own house or apartment?
A No. I just stayed with him.
Q And that was with Don Moes?
A Yeah. That's when I -- when I first met Don
we both worked for the N.A.S. naval center.
Q Okay. And what were you doing for the Navy
then?
A We were working on a huge multimillion dollar
system.
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Q Okay. Now at some point when you left the
wedding and you were driving back to the hotel, whose
idea was it to stop at the gas station?
A Rhonda wanted to get a bottle of white wine.
Q And that's because they didn't have white
wine at the wedding?
A Correct.
Q Okay. And she was planning on picking up a
bag of chips?
A Yes, she was.
Q Okay. Did she eat at the wedding? Did she
--
A Not -- not very much. She ate -- you know,
she picked around her plate more than eat.
Q Okay. And at that point why did you pick
that Gate Gas Station? Any reason at all?
A It was on the way. I mean we got off the
highway and I was following my G.P.S. map, you know,
not really knowing where we were at but it was the
first place we saw.
Q Okay. So as you get off the highway G.P.S.
just kind of said get off this exit? You didn't punch
in convenience store?
A No. We punched in our hotel as the
destination.
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2851
Q All right. And then you kind of just
happened -- like you said this was the first place you
passed?
A Yes, it was.
Q Okay. Do you recall looking back on it now
how far away the hotel was from that gas station?
A It wasn't very far. I heard testimony it was
like three miles away, and that seems about right.
Q Okay. And was there a lot of traffic that
evening? Was it bumper to bumper? Jacksonville is
kind of famous for rush hour traffic. Was this rush
hour?
A 7:30 in the evening I don't think that
qualifies as rush hour but I don't recall any heavy or
light. It just was normal traffic to me.
Q Okay. Now when you pull in, how do you end
up finding that spot?
A It was the closest spot to the door that was
open.
Q And why did you take that spot?
A So we didn't have far to walk to the door.
Q Okay. And you knew Ms. Rouer was going to
get out to go buy the wine and chips?
A Yes. That's correct. That was our purpose.
Q Okay. And Ms. Rouer's door actually would
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have been closest to that sidewalk, right, to walk in
the door?
A Yes, it was.
Q Okay. So it would have been the closest even
for her to go in the store?
A That's correct.
Q At some point did you hear loud thumping
base?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. Can you tell the jury what did you see
or hear when you pulled into that spot?
A When I pulled into the spot there was a red
SUV in the adjacent area, adjacent parking spot.
Q And do you recall if there were other spots
available?
A I don't recall. I think there were some very
far away, like extreme left but nothing -- like there
wasn't anything right on the other side of the SUV. It
was take this spot next to the door or take the spots
that were way far away.
Q Okay. And again you knew at that point you
were going there to let your fiance out to go get chips
and wine?
A Right, just in and out.
Q And did you have that discussion before you
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even pulled in the gas station?
A That we were getting chips and wine?
Q Yeah.
A I knew she was getting wine. The chips were
a surprise.
Q Okay. Okay. In terms of this music, would
you characterize it as music or just the loud base
thumping?
A I just heard the thumping.
Q Okay. And there was some testimony about you
heard Ms. Rouer say, oh, I hate that thug music?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Was that because you could hear the
lyrics or was that because the base was so loud?
A It's just the base.
Q Okay. And do you recall if when you were
parking there how soon Ms. Rouer got out of the car?
Did you guys sit there and have any type of
conversation?
A No. I think our conversation was her holding
out her hand for some money and me giving her a kiss,
you know, hurry back.
Q Okay. So basically is it fair to say it took
a few seconds before you put the car in park and she
was out of the vehicle?
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A That's correct.
Q Okay. She have any issues walking into the
store?
A No.
Q Okay. At that point did you have any
physical sensations about this thumping base?
A It -- it actually started a few seconds after
she went in the store.
Q Okay.
A There was music but then it got really loud.
Q Okay. And by really loud, was it just it's
kind of annoying or were there -- was your rear
windshield --
A Body panels of the SUV were rattling. My
rearview mirror was shaking. My eardrums were like --
Q Okay.
A This was ridiculously loud music.
Q Okay. And in Satellite Beach you said
there's young people, there's surfers. Have you been
in an instant where people have their music or their
base loud?
A Yes, at gas stations if you pull up and the
guy right across the island from you is a Jeep or
whatever their cars tend to be open. I've had -- you
know, I've asked people to turn it down before and they
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do it happily.
Q Okay. Do you do it -- does it make you angry
that people have their base or music loud?
A No, not at all.
Q Okay. Have you ever had one -- in your
experiences when you've asked someone, hey, would you
please turn it down, have you ever been threatened or
cursed at back?
A Never.
Q Okay. And when they do turn it down, what is
your common response?
A Thank you.
MR. GUY: Judge, I'm going to object to this
as relevance as to any prior incident.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q That night did you ask the guys in the red
SUV to turn down that base?
A I did. I said can you turn that down,
please?
Q Okay. Did you say anything like I can't hear
myself think?
A If I did it wasn't to them. It was kind of
like a mutter to myself.
Q Okay. But do you even recall making that
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statement out loud?
A I do not.
Q Okay. And when you said could you turn that
music down, please, what was the response from the red
SUV?
A They turned it off. If the music wasn't off
at least the base stopped completely.
Q Okay. And at that point what did you then
say?
A I said thank you.
Q Okay. Did you give any kind of hand signal
or wave or anything like that?
A I did not.
Q Okay. Were the windows up in the red SUV at
least in the front passenger?
A I looked to my left when I asked to turn the
music down and I saw the front windows were up.
Q Okay. And were they tinted?
A Heavily.
Q Could you see anybody who was behind there?
A No.
Q Okay. How about when you asked the question,
were you looking around or did you just direct it to
the guy sitting kind of right next to your car?
A I just like turned a little bit to the left
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2857
so I only saw the front.
Q Okay. And did you have to lower the window
and get their attention or did you just --
A I put my window down because, you know, who's
going to hear you when the window's up and turned to my
left and said could you turn that down, please?
Q And was that red SUV front passenger door
right to your left?
A Correct.
Q I know it sounds kind of odd. Was it exactly
--
A It was even with me.
Q Okay.
A Right next to me.
Q And then when you said thank you again, did
you make any motions or did you just say thank you?
A I actually -- when I said thank you I turned
and looked left again and that's when I saw the rear
area of the SUV where the windows were down.
Q Okay. And did anybody say anything back to
you in your response to saying thank you?
A No.
Q Okay. How soon after -- well, let me ask you
this: Once you said thank you, did you put your window
back up or was it already --
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2858
A I did. I turned my head. I said, thank you.
I looked back straight ahead and I put my window back
up.
Q Okay. How soon after that did anything else
happen other than that kind of moment of silence we
just talked about?
A Very soon after I start hearing things like F
him and F that and, you know, it's --
Q Now instead of saying F -- were they actually
saying the word or you paraphrasing?
A I'm paraphrasing.
Q Okay. Was it in a nice tone? Was it -- what
kind of a tone --
A No. It was mean-spirited, you know, just
like annoyed if you will.
Q Okay. And once you heard these comments, did
you look back over and react at all?
A No, not even a little bit.
Q Did you roll your window down and say
anything?
A No, I did not.
Q Did it make you angry?
A No, it did not.
Q Did you punch your steering wheel?
A No.
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2859
Q Did you throw your phone down?
A No reaction at all.
Q Okay. And at that point after you don't
react at all, does it escalate?
A Well, the music came back on.
Q Did the music came back on same or even
louder?
A No. It was probably a little bit less loud
than it was but it came back on.
Q And was it still that base thump?
A Yes, absolutely.
Q Okay. Now are you familiar how radios work
with trebles and vocals and things like that?
A Yes, I am.
Q Okay. At that point is there a difference
between music and lyrics verse that thumping base?
A Yeah. The only thing that was coming through
was base.
Q Okay.
A Thumping base.
Q Okay. And we talked a little bit about your
window shaking. Do you have any type of ear damage?
A I do.
Q Can you explain to the jury what damage you
have and how you got that?
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2860
A Growing up in The Keys scuba diving is a big
part of life and I actually have damage to my right
ear. I don't know what the percentage is but I do have
a loss of hearing in my right ear and consequently my
left ear kind of compensates for it.
Q Okay. As a matter of fact, did you have any
type of business in The Keys in terms of a job or
family business where you would actually use diving and
things like that?
A Yes. My father had a dive charter business
and we would take paid customers and go do that.
Q Okay. And did this loud thumping create you
any discomfort?
A It did in my left ear, my sensitive ear.
Q Okay. And again did you turn and yell at the
guys in the SUV?
A When they turned the music on the second time
I wasn't going to ask them for any more favors again.
Q Okay. And did you still hear somebody
yelling and cursing at that time?
A I -- I did. Now it -- now it got ugly. I
heard, you know, something something cracker, just --
Q Did you actually hear certain words or again
are you paraphrasing?
A I heard some things.
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2861
Q Okay. And without going into those specific
terms you kind of knew what they were saying to you?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you have any reaction at all back to
them?
A No, I did not.
Q Okay. Did you again get angry and hit the
steering wheel, any type of anger at all?
A No, no reaction other than looking forward
and hoping Rhonda comes out.
Q Okay. Now again you're not showing any
reaction at this point. Did things escalate out of the
person yelling at you in the SUV?
A Yeah, because, you know, when the F this and
F that there was no music playing and I could hear him.
Now there's thumping base and I can hear him. His
voice is elevating.
Q Can you hear him because he's yelling so loud
it's over the base?
A It's over that thumping noise.
Q Okay. And does this yelling now include
threats of violence against you?
A Well, after hearing the something something
cracker and this and that I hear I should kill that
mother fucker, and I'm flabbergasted. I -- I -- I must
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2862
not be hearing this right.
Q How many times did you hear that?
A I heard it -- I heard him say that, and I
wasn't sure if that's what I heard.
Q All right. At this time are you trying to
listen a little closer?
A Now I'm listening closely. Like when I'm
sitting there I'm kind of thinking about the nice day
we had. I'm thinking about St. Augustine tomorrow, but
when this I should kill that mother fucker comes
through now I'm paying attention to what they're
saying.
Q Okay. That kind of got you to perk up?
A And -- yes. And in an even more elevated
voice I hear I should fucking kill that mother fucker
and now he's screaming.
Q Okay.
A There's no -- there's no mistake of what he
said. That is what he said.
Q Do you then look over to see is somebody
talking to you?
A I did. In fact, I'm to the point where I
think it's time to try to de-escalate this.
Q Okay. And what do you mean by that?
A To try to calm things down.
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2863
Q Okay. And do you lower your window?
A I did. I put my window back down and I
looked left.
Q And what do you see?
A Well, right about that time I saw a young man
walk by the front of my car who I have since learned is
Tommie Stornes.
Q Was there any kind of communication between
you and Mr. Stornes?
A No. I just kind of caught him out of the
corner of my eye. I didn't really --
Q Okay.
A -- look at him full-on and I certainly didn't
speak to him.
Q Okay. And were you even paying attention to
that or you still focused to the guy yelling at you?
A I am looking at the guy in the rear passenger
seat.
Q Okay. Could you clearly see into that
vehicle?
A I could, and I saw two young men with
menacing expressions.
Q Did they look happy with you?
A No, not at all.
Q Does the one -- let me ask you this: Was the
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2864
window up or down on that back passenger SUV?
A Down.
Q Okay. Was it half way down?
A All the way down.
Q All the way flat down. Did you have any
unobstructed view looking over your left shoulder
looking into that vehicle?
A An unobstructed view.
Q Right. And you could see two men sitting
there?
A Yes, I could, two young men.
Q Okay. And at that point did they ever turn
their attention towards you and look at you?
A They did, and I asked are you talking about
me?
Q Now let me stop you there. There's a famous
line of Al Pacino that says you talking to me? Did you
say that to these gentlemen?
A I think the inflection on that is talking.
My inflection is on me. I said are you talking about
me?
Q And why did you ask that as a question if
they were talking about you?
A Well, they were saying they wanted to kill
the M.F.'er and I wanted to know if I was that M.F.'er.
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2865
Q Okay. And if they did say yes and you said
you wanted to de-escalate it, what were your intentions
of talking to that back passenger?
A Well, I wanted to make it clear that I had
said thank you. I mean I didn't mean any disrespect by
asking him to turn the music down.
Q Did you tell them to turn it down or did you
ask them?
A I asked them. I said, please.
Q And have you done that before in the past?
A Absolutely without reservation.
Q Okay. And again saying -- the common
courtesy is to say thank you when someone does you a
favor?
A Absolutely.
Q And at that point when you said are you
talking about me, does that individual give you even
time to then further talk and say I said thank you,
anything like that?
A No. I -- I -- it -- it escalated.
Q Okay. Did you escalate?
A No, he did.
Q Did you get upset?
A No.
Q Did you have any words at all to him other
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2866
than are you talking about me?
A It wasn't time. I mean I didn't have a
chance to say anything.
Q And what was the response from the person in
the back passenger of that SUV when you said are you
talking about me?
A He reached forward and picked something up
and slammed it against the door.
Q Okay. When you say he reached forward, did
he reach --
A I'm sorry. He reached down.
Q Okay. Down towards his feet?
A Down towards -- I mean I could see his
shoulders move. I couldn't see his hands, but you can
imagine if somebody's shoulders move forward that
they're reaching down.
Q All right. Did you see him actually lean
down towards the floor of that car --
A Yes, I did.
Q -- truck? And at that point did you reach
for your firearm?
A Absolutely not.
Q Did you -- did you try to flee or get out of
the car or think anything was going to escalate in
terms of physical violence?
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2867
A No.
Q Tell the jury after you see that person in
the back seat reach down in the floor, did they come
back up? Did they sit back up?
A Yeah. Yeah. He -- he not only came back up
but he slammed whatever it was against the door.
Q Okay. Could you see something against that
door?
A Yeah. I saw sticking above like the
windowsill about four inches of a barrel.
Q Okay. Let me ask you this: Did he put the
out the car? Did he hold it -- what -- kind of
describe to the jury what exactly you saw he did.
A Like -- like this and slamming it up against
the door.
Q All right. Could you hear metal hit the
door?
A Like a thump.
Q Okay. Loud enough for you to hear even with
the thumping of the base going?
A Sure. It was a different sound.
Q Okay. And you said it looked like a barrel
of a gun or a shotgun?
A It was -- I think in profile it was -- might
have been a 12-gauge, maybe 20.
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2868
Q Okay. Tell the jury are you familiar with
12-gauge and 20-gauge shotguns?
A Yes.
Q How are you familiar with those type of
shotguns?
A We do the sporting clays. That's like skeet
but, you know, the birds come from different direction.
It's like shooting skeet.
Q Do you actually shoot birds?
A No. That's -- I'm sorry. That's what they
call the clay pigeon.
Q Kind of when you hear somebody say pull?
A Exactly.
Q And then the clay gets shot out?
A Yes.
Q Okay. When you said we, who is we?
A My father and quite a few people from the
aviation community.
Q Okay. And how long have you shot sporting
clays?
A Well, I did it as a child. I say a child,
12, but since 2005 fairly regularly with my father.
Q Okay. Kind of a family community activity?
A Yes. It was -- it would be one of those
Saturday things. We would go fly and then go shoot
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2869
traps.
Q Okay. So you understand how shotguns work?
A Yes.
Q You understand how they fire?
A Absolutely.
Q You understand how projectiles come out of a
shotgun?
A Very much so.
Q Now at this point he reaches down and slams
up what you think you see is a shotgun, is that
correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q Do you reach for your firearm?
A No, I do not.
Q Do you say anything to him of you're dead,
any -- any words exchanged at that point?
A No. He -- he put -- he slammed something
against the door and said, yeah, I'm going to fucking
kill you because when I asked him are you talking about
me he was just saying I should kill that M.F.'er and I
asked him are you talking about me, and he slammed -- I
didn't know what it was at first but when he says,
yeah, I'm going to fucking kill you I look and I'm
looking at a barrel. He's showing me a gun and he's
threatening me.
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2870
Q Okay. And again you said it was only a few
inches of that barrel?
A Yeah. I'm estimating four.
Q Okay. And again at that point did you grab
your firearm?
A I did not.
Q Okay. Did you have any words back in terms
of retaliation?
A No. I was -- I was in fear for my life and I
was probably stunned.
Q Okay. At that point how did that make you
feel? Had anyone ever pointed a gun at you or even
said the words I'm going to kill you?
A I've never been threatened, let alone
threatened with a firearm before, not threatened with
death.
Q Okay. And at this point in terms of your
mental processes could you even imagine it would
escalate to that point over asking someone to lower the
radio?
A I was incredulous.
Q Thank you. Excuse me for my ignorance. What
does incredulous mean?
A I couldn't believe what I was seeing and
hearing.
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2871
Q Okay. And were you frozen in that seat?
A I was.
Q Okay. And where was Ms. Rouer, your fiance?
A She was in the store.
Q Okay. And from the back window of that SUV
to you, would that be a diagonal straight line?
A Yes.
Q And then from you to the front of that Gate
entrance, would that be a diagonal straight line?
A Yes, we were in a line.
Q Okay. So if somebody had fired a shot from
that angle anybody coming out could be hit?
A That's correct.
Q And that would include your fiance?
A Right.
Q Okay. Did you even have time to look back to
see if Ms. Rouer was coming out?
A I did not.
Q Okay. Now you don't pull your weapon at this
point. You're sitting there. What happens now?
A Well, I didn't -- I didn't react to this.
I'm just like processing what's going on, and this
young man in the back seat, in the back passenger seat
opens his door, you know, like he cracked it. He just
popped it open.
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2872
Q Could you hear the door unhinge?
A Yes, and I saw it move just a little bit.
Q Okay. And at that point -- because you
already said you were in fear of your life when he said
you're dead, Bitch, with a gun, right?
A Well, he said he was going to F-ing kill me
but after he opened the door then he looked at me and
said you're dead, Bitch.
Q And were you still sitting there in shock?
A Yes, I was.
Q Were you still in fear for your life?
A I became even more fearful at that point.
Q Okay. At that point what did you believe was
about to happen to you?
A I thought I was going to be killed.
Q Did you even think he might be able to get a
shot off?
A Yes. Yes, I did.
Q Okay.
A But I still didn't go for my gun at that
time.
Q Okay. Why is that? Why did you not reach
for your gun?
A I couldn't tell you. Hoping that the
situation was going to de-escalate. I was in fear for
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2873
my life but I wasn't in -- I wasn't to the point where
I was ready to point that lethal force.
Q Okay. And were you even thinking about it at
that point?
A Not really. I was just like going, oh, my
God, where is all this hostility coming from?
Q All right. And at that point is Ms. Rouer
even in your view sight yet?
A No.
Q Do you even know if she could be standing
outside your car?
A She could be but my focus is to the left and
she could be standing right there.
Q Okay.
A And, of course, you know, a lot of things are
going through my mind. It's not just my life. It's
hers, too.
Q Let me ask you this: At any time did any of
the people in the SUV try to calm that individual down?
A No, when I -- when I -- when I was looking at
the person in the rear passenger I could see the rear
driver's side, too, and while he wasn't saying anything
it was still that -- I wouldn't say scowl but, you
know, an angry expression.
Q And he was kind of still watching his friend?
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2874
A Oh, absolutely. He was like right there.
Q Did anybody in the front seat or any time did
that back window ever come up or go up half way or an
inch, anything like that?
A No, it did not.
Q Okay. And again you don't know who else is
in that vehicle other than somebody working the radio,
I guess?
A Yeah. I assumed there's somebody in front.
Q Okay. And then the two guys in the back?
A Correct.
Q And then the one guy threatening you in the
back?
A Correct.
Q Okay. So now you said you see him move and
you hear the door un-pop?
A Right.
Q Do you see the door open?
A Yes.
Q Okay. At this point are you still frozen?
A I am.
Q Okay. What changes? What -- what is that
variable?
A After the continued threat of you're dead,
Bitch, now the door opens and this young man gets out,
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2875
and as his head clears the window frame he says this
shit's going down now.
Q And at any time do you see that man try to
get rid of what you thought was a shotgun that he was
holding against that door?
A Well, when the door opened and he said this
shit's going down now that shotgun is not sticking up
any more.
Q Okay. But you didn't see his body movement
try to get rid of it and then get out?
A No. I just saw him get out and the shotgun
is not sticking up any more.
Q Now in your mind did you think he was just
going to get out to yell at you some more?
A No. I -- this is the point where my guess is
he's coming to kill me or he's coming to beat me. I'm
not real sure what his intentions -- actually he made
it very clear what his intentions were.
Q But again you only know what you're being
told and what you see?
A Yes, and not -- not having any -- any doubts
at all between his threats and his actions that that is
a gun in the window.
Q Okay. And again you see that him now come
out over the doorframe, is that correct?
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2876
A I -- I saw his head over the window frame as
he stepped out, and it was at that point where he said
this shit's going down now.
Q Okay. And has anybody ever -- let me ask you
this: Have you ever been in any remote type of
position like that?
A Never.
Q Do you have any type of law enforcement or
military training to deal with that?
A No, I do not.
Q In your wildest dreams could you fathom being
in that position over a common courtesy?
A No.
Q Okay. Now at this point are you looking for
Ms. Rouer? Are you trying to figure out where she is?
What's going through your mind when he said this shit's
going down now?
A What went through my mind is that this was a
clear and present danger and I said you're not going to
kill me, you son of a bitch.
Q Okay. And as you said that were you looking
at him or were you now moving to get that firearm?
A That -- I said that as I was retrieving my
pistol.
Q Okay. And where was your pistol?
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2877
A It was in my glove box.
Q Where do you routinely keep that pistol?
A In my glove box.
Q Okay. Is that the same pistol we saw here
today?
A Yes, it is.
Q Does that pistol fit all the way down deep
into that holster?
A Yes, it does. That's the actual holster you
would use for conceal carry.
Q Okay. And if you're conceal carrying it it's
not open carry like you see in the Wild West where the
old cowboys can grab their trigger and pull?
A Right. That's inside the waistband holster.
Q Right. And does that trigger guard -- that
holster cover that trigger guard?
A Yes, it does. You can see how it's molded
over it. Like when a gun fits in it completely covers
the trigger guard.
Q Okay. And when did you have that or when did
you purchase that firearm?
A In the early 90's, like '90, '91.
Q Okay. And would you take that to go target
practicing?
A Yes, I would.
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2878
Q Okay. And that's the paper target you see at
shooting ranges?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Any type of modifications or
customizations to that gun?
A The only thing I did was I took the walnut
grips off and I put the Pachmayr grips. Those are the
black grips. It's just non -- nonslip.
Q The walnut is kind of a smooth finish?
A Exactly.
Q Could slip out?
A Exactly.
Q And if you're shooting even at target does
the gun kick?
A I think the Pachmayr grips look better and
they're probably safer.
Q Okay. And again have you ever had to ever
take that out other than to shoot paper targets at a
range?
A I have never, ever had to resort to any kind
of firearm, let alone that pistol.
Q Now can you fire that gun through the
holster?
A No, you cannot. The trigger is completely
blocked.
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2879
Q Okay. How many rounds does that gun hold?
A 15 in the magazine.
Q Okay. And you heard Ms. Pagan testify that
you can carry one chambered, is that correct?
A You could. I don't do that.
Q Have you ever carried your firearm either in
your house, your car or on your person what I would
call live, meaning there's a live round in the chamber?
A No. I don't believe in that. I think that
it's a safety issue.
Q Okay. And again have you had guns since you
had a family?
A Yeah. With young kids in the house, you
know, especially revolver a kid is strong enough to
pull the trigger and snap it. A revolver is just not
safe. Same thing can be said for double-action pistol.
If you have a round in the chamber they're strong
enough to pull the trigger but they're not strong
enough to work the slide, at least not enough -- not
until they're old enough where they know better.
Q Okay. And again there was some mention about
your son, Chris Dunn?
A Uh-huh.
Q Okay. You and Phyllis Molinaro separated
when he was quite young?
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2880
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did Ms. Molinaro go on to get
remarried to another gentleman?
A She did.
Q Did she have kids with that gentleman?
A Yes, she had a daughter.
Q Did you go on to get remarried to another
woman?
A I did.
Q Did you have kids with that woman?
A Yes, I have two daughters.
Q Is that why part of your rationale is you
don't carry it loaded?
A Right, because of my young daughters.
Q Now --
A That pistol is actually older than they are.
Q Okay. Okay. With that being said, when you
reached over tell the jury what you did. Is your glove
box locked? What's going on?
A My glove box isn't locked but, you know, the
way my seat is kind of tilted back I had to lean
forward once to pop the glove box.
Q Okay.
A And then bounce back and lean forward again
to grab the pistol, like leaning forward a little bit
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further.
Q Okay. And then when you grab it, is it still
in the holster?
A Yeah. I grab the whole thing.
Q Do you unholster it?
A I grab the whole thing and I threw the
holster down at my feet in the car.
Q And is this a very quick action that you're
doing?
A Absolutely. I'm in a panic.
Q And that's what I was going to ask you. At
that point do you also then rack the gun or cock the
gun?
A Yeah. The -- to recreate it I grabbed the
gun and I stripped off the holster and I put the pistol
up into the window and cocked it and then turned to my
left.
Q Okay. At that point when you turned to your
left, are you trying to acquire a target or anything
like that?
A I'm just pointing it at the direction of my
attacker at that point.
Q Okay. And that's the last place you saw this
person who said --
A This shit's going down now is the last thing
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he said to me.
Q With a firearm or deadly weapon in his hand?
A Yes. I mean everything he said and did
cemented the fact that whatever he threw up against
that looked like a gun was a gun.
Q Okay. And at that point were you shooting
only to defend yourself?
A Yes, I was.
Q Did you have any malice, intent outside of
what you've already testified to and why you grabbed
your pistol?
A No, I do not.
Q Had you ever met anybody in this red SUV
before?
A No, I had not.
Q Obviously you've learned their names now.
Have you ever had any kind of contact with them, their
families, anything at all?
A No.
Q Would they have even known who you are?
A Unlikely.
Q Okay. And again you said you hadn't even
lived in Jacksonville since the mid 90's?
A Correct.
Q Now how fast -- I know we kind of recreated
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and walked you through it, but if you could could you
show the jury exactly what you did when you heard it's
going down now?
A Well, if we say over here is my glove box I'm
looking out the window and I said you're not going to
kill me, you son of a bitch, and I shot.
Q Okay. And do you even recall how many times
you shot?
A I do not.
Q Okay. You obviously heard the video?
A Yes.
Q Okay. You got to see the video?
A Yes. It was very impressive.
Q Okay. And how did that make you feel
watching it?
A It put me back in the moment.
Q How did that make you feel?
A Scared.
Q About as scared as you were that day?
A Not -- not even a little bit but it brought
some of it back.
Q Okay. And again have you ever been put in
that position before in your life?
A No.
Q Do you have any type of training to deal with
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being put in that position?
MR. GUY: Judge, objection as to asked and
answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Now at that point we hear the gun go off
three times. You hear the boom, boom or bang, bang,
whatever it is, however you want to describe it. You
could hear it yourself?
A Yes.
Q Okay. At any point do you then move the gun
to find anybody else? Are you now searching for
people?
A No. I -- how can I describe this? I had
what's called tunnel vision. My hearing kind of
dimmed. My senses just kind of -- everything faded in
the background and it was focused on the target and --
Q And that was the red door -- with that target
being the red door?
A Just the door.
Q Why were you shooting at the door?
A Well, that's where the threat was coming
from. That was the last place I saw my attacker, and
that was about as far back as I could get in my
position.
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Q Okay. And again were you shooting directly
to your left or would that be at the passenger door?
A That would have been at the front passenger.
I was angled behind me two-handed. I have a damaged
right finger. I really can't shoot a gun because I
have to use this as a trigger finger. I was only
holding it with two fingers so I have to hold it
two-handed for the recoil.
Q Okay.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, if I may, could I have
him step down so the jury can actually see his
finger?
THE COURT: Sure.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Mr. Dunn, if you wouldn't mind stepping down.
Now when did this injury happen to your finger?
A 2004.
Q Okay.
A My knuckle doesn't bend is the reason.
Q Could you put your whole hand down so they
can compare that finger to the others? I'm just going
to ask if you could just slide down. I hate to do that
to you, Mr. Dunn.
A You can see the knuckles.
Q And could you tell the jury how did that
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injury occur?
A Give me a sec. Just a home improvement
project gone awry.
Q Is that with your father?
A Yes, it was.
Q Did he feel kind of bad?
A He feels terrible.
Q Okay. And because of that you said you have
to hold it with two hands?
A Right. Because I would otherwise just be
holding the grip with two fingers and that's not
enough.
Q Okay. And would you even have -- would it
almost injure you trying to fire the gun?
A I think it would jump out of my hand. I've
never tried it just out of a --
Q Safety issue?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Now that being said, is it even
possible -- when you're firing back at that back
passenger door, is it even possible -- did you duck
your head and try to aim those crosshairs or sights?
A I didn't aim. I pointed.
Q Did you even have time to try to acquire a
sight and get the things lined up?
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A No. My hands were rested on my windowsill.
Q And why did you fire so quickly? What was
still going through your mind at that moment, if
anything at all?
A I was fighting for my life.
Q Okay. At that point you felt your life was
still in danger?
A Oh, absolutely.
MR. GUY: I would object to leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q How did it -- how did you feel in terms of
your mental abilities of being in fear?
A I was still fighting for my life. I was
still in fear for my life.
Q Did anybody yell out, no, no, we're just
kidding, no, it's okay, any type of comments like that?
A No, nothing.
Q Anything to de-escalate the threats towards
you?
A Nothing at all.
Q And at that point at some time do you now
realize that the SUV is gone?
A Yeah. As I mentioned I kind of was in a
fixed position with the tunnel vision. I didn't
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realize the SUV was moving at first. You'll see in
photos that there's three holes in the front passenger,
that I was still aiming at the rear passenger and it
didn't register that the car was backing up.
Q Okay. And at some point you realize now
there's no more red door in front of your face?
A I registered movement and stopped but I'd
already put three additional shots into the front
passenger.
Q Okay. And again was that with any malice and
intent for anybody in the vehicle other than the
gentleman who threatened your life with the firearm?
A No. It was just a by-product of the tunnel
vision.
Q Okay. And then did you stop once you
realized that SUV is now no longer --
A Yes, I did.
Q And at that point did you look up?
A Yes.
Q And where was the SUV when you looked up?
A They had backed up directly behind me.
Q Okay. So at that point if you're facing this
way aiming out your door, your door is closed?
A My door is closed. My window is down.
Q Okay. Did you ever try to open the door, get
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out of the vehicle and chase them down?
A Not chase them down but I did open my door.
Q Tell the jury why did you open your door with
the SUV behind you?
A Well, they -- they had a shot at the back of
my head, a very easy one.
Q And again did you ever see anybody throw the
shotgun or the deadly weapon away?
A No.
Q And at that point if they have a shotgun what
kind of sight do they have to you?
A Right. This is -- this is where Rhonda
starts coming into my mind because I know she's heard
the shots. I know Rhonda. It wasn't just my life I
was worried about now.
Q And was that -- in terms of your mental state
how did you still feel at that point in terms of the
threat of imminent danger?
A Right. I mean now it's double because it's
not just me we're talking about.
Q All right. And at some point now do you see
that SUV actually drive towards a different direction
or try to drive away?
A It did, and this is where the -- now they're
back in line with if they fire on me they'll hit the
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2890
front door and this is where Rhonda comes out.
Q Okay. And again with your -- with your gun
how many bullets can it fire at a time?
A One.
Q And that goes in one direction?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. With your experience and training what
does a shotgun blast do?
A It has a very nice spread.
Q And the further you get away the bigger that
spread?
A The bigger the spread.
Q Okay. That's kind of why you could shoot
clays at 50 yards plus and still hit it?
A And hit it, yeah.
Q Okay. Do you fire additional rounds into the
back of the truck?
A I did, and in my panicked state of mind I
thought I fired once but I've seen the photographic
evidence and I shot three times.
Q Okay. What was your purpose of firing
towards the back of that vehicle? Were you trying --
A I -- I -- I was worried about a blind firing
situation where they would, you know, shoot over their
heads or whatever and hit me or hit me and Rhonda.
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Q Could -- was the back passenger window still
down?
A Yes, it was.
Q Could a gun barrel be pointed out that
window?
A Absolutely. It was the right -- it was at a
45.
Q By 45 you mean the angle?
A Yes, sir.
Q Not the firearm?
A Yes. I meant the angle.
Q Okay. And at that point what was going
through your mind in terms of fear? Were you still in
imminent fear?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. And what was your purpose of shooting
into that vehicle at that angle?
A To keep their heads down, to keep them from
shooting blindly.
Q Okay. And again at this point now you know
there's at least --
A Four.
Q Do you know what they have in that car?
A No. I know there's at least one weapon. Now
I've got three, four potential shooters.
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Q All right. And again how many are you?
A One.
Q Okay. At that point -- let me ask you this:
After you fire the round into the back to keep their
heads down, do you unload your clip? It's a common
term. You just keep shooting till everything is gone?
A No, I did not.
Q Okay. Why did you stop firing and at what
point did you stop firing?
A I stopped firing when it appeared that the
threat was over.
Q Okay. And they were far enough away where
they couldn't shoot back?
A They were far enough way where they couldn't
shoot back effectively and I certainly couldn't aim
effectively.
Q Okay. Were you even trying to continue to
shoot as they were driving away?
A No.
Q Okay. At that point what was your next focus
on immediately after that?
A Getting Rhonda and myself to safety.
Q Okay. Did you try to run into the store?
A No.
Q When you turned around, who was standing
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there?
A Rhonda.
Q Okay. And what did you say to her?
A I said get in the car. We got to go.
Q And what did she do?
A She got in the car.
Q Okay. And at that point did you know where
that red SUV went?
A No. I lost sight of the red SUV and I
thought they turned onto that main road, whatever goes
north there. I really wasn't that familiar with the
way the parking lot works, but when they turned the
corner and took off I thought they were on -- is that
Southside?
Q Yes. And at that point did you have any type
of mental thought of retaliation of them coming back?
A Yes. I was worried about them coming back
and maybe possibly they had friends in the area.
Q Okay.
A And do a retaliation.
Q And did you -- was it a busy gas station with
a lot of people there?
A Yes.
Q Did you look around -- did you look around
and start asking people are you friendly or you not
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friendly?
A No, no, no, no. Just got out.
Q At that point what is still your mental state
of you being in fear of that situation?
A I'm still in a panic. I'm still in -- you
know, we're in a very dangerous spot. I mean I just
got my life threatened because I asked them to turn the
music down and now I shot at them, so now what are they
going to do?
Q And again is your belief they still have
weapons in that vehicle?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. And at that point emotionally,
physically do you notice any differences about your
body physically?
A I'm shaking. I mean I'm quivering like a
leaf.
Q Okay. Had you ever experienced those
feelings before?
A No. This is all new.
Q How was Rhonda once you explained to her what
happened or did you explain to her or try to in the
vehicle?
A I tried to but she was hysterical.
Q Okay. And were you still shaking and
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panicking?
A I wasn't much better.
Q Okay. So was it a little bit difficult for
you to verbalize clearly as we are today?
A Yes, it was. I mean I tried to get out the
fact that they were threatening me. I tried to get out
the fact that they were advancing on me. I tried to
get out the fact that they were armed but it was
difficult to say the least.
Q And was that because of your mental state?
A Both of ours.
Q Okay. Now how far away you said -- did you
take you a long time to get back to the hotel?
A No, not at all.
Q Do you even remember the ride back or was it
all --
A I don't remember pulling in. I mean --
Q Okay. You heard Rhonda testify that she got
out and she jumped out of the car and ran in. Do you
recall that?
A Vaguely.
Q Okay. Do you even recall what parking spot
you parked in?
A No.
Q Okay. Do you even recall where the parking
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lot vicinity you parked?
A No.
Q Okay. And once Rhonda runs in she's still
visibly upset obviously?
A Yes, she was.
Q Okay. And at this point is there any
communication between you and her about what you're
going to do next or why, anything like that?
A No, no, no.
Q Okay. What do you do in terms of your
firearm?
A I -- I -- I safety it. I took the magazine
out and then I took the shell that was in the barrel
out and I put it back into the magazine.
Q Okay. And did you have a little bit
difficult time? Were your hands still shaking?
A Yeah. I think I dropped stuff.
Q Okay. And at that point were you even
worried about grabbing it and shaking of what might
happen?
A I was being very delicate.
Q Okay. In terms of your emotional state at
that point were you worried about being followed? And
I don't mean by police. I mean people trying to find
you to hurt you?
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A Absolutely. We were staying at the -- at a
hotel that has like a club room at the top floor, and
we were there looking out the windows like a waking
nightmare. Every car was a red SUV, I mean to us. We
were just -- you have to understand we didn't know
anybody had been hurt. We thought we had just made
them go away and that they were going to come back.
Q Okay. And again at this point have you ever
been in any type of situation even remotely similar to
this?
MR. GUY: Judge, objection, asked and
answered.
THE WITNESS: No.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Have you had any type of counseling or
training to handle this after a shooting?
A No.
Q Did you even think you would ever need it in
your life?
A No, never.
Q And how was Rhonda's demeanor once you were
upstairs?
A She was a wreck.
Q And how was your demeanor once you got
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upstairs?
A I wasn't much better but I -- you know, I
needed to hold it together for both of us.
Q And were you trying to do that for her?
A Yes, I was.
Q And did you see her testify the other day?
A (Nods head affirmatively.)
Q Would that be very similar to how she was
acting that night?
A That was calm compared to that night.
Q Okay. So she was much worse that night?
A Yes, she was.
Q Okay. And obviously sitting here today
you're still visibly upset?
A Yes.
Q Would you say this is probably calm to how
you were reacting that night?
A I think I'm more emotional now than I was
that night because I was trying to be stoic. I had
difficulty processing what was going on.
Q Were you trying to comfort your fiance?
A Yes, I was.
Q Okay. And at some point did she even have to
go get air because you were --
A Smothering her?
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Q Yes.
A Yes.
Q Okay. And again that was trying to get her
to kind of breathe and relax?
MR. GUY: Judge, I'm going to object to
leading.
THE COURT: Mr. Strolla, please don't lead.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Mr. Dunn, why were -- why were you behaving
that way?
A I was trying to get her to relax and stop
hyperventilating and calm down and explain to her that
it was self-defense, that we were not in trouble with
the police. We might be in trouble with the local
gangsters but not -- you know, I didn't do anything
wrong.
Q All right. Let me ask you this: At some
point did you take Charlie downstairs to use the
bathroom?
A Yes. We -- we went upstairs and she changed.
We were both wearing evening attire and I took Charlie
down to go potty and by the time I got up she had just
finished changing.
Q Okay. And let me ask you this: We kind of
talked about walking the dog. Did you take Charlie out
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for a walk?
A No. I took him to just go potty. He was
ready to go.
Q Okay. Did you walk him around the parking
lot?
A No. This wasn't an exercise walk. This was
just to go potty.
Q Okay. And can you explain to the jury once
you go downstairs in the hotel, where is this area that
the animals and the pets could use the bathroom?
A Oh, it was right outside the door, like right
around the building.
Q And it was in front open to the public on a
public road?
A No. It was kind of like to the side.
Q Okay. And was it extremely close, you said
right outside that door?
A Yes.
Q And did Charlie have to use the bathroom?
A Yeah. He was immediate.
Q Okay. And did you let Charlie walk around
and smell the grass or play?
A No. We weren't -- I didn't want to be
outside right then.
Q Okay. Did you immediately pick up Charlie
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2901
and go back to the room?
A Yes, we did. Yes, I did. Excuse me.
Q And at some point there was some discussion
about ordering a pizza. Please tell the jury who
ordered the pizza.
A Well, I made the phone call but it was -- you
know, Rhonda hadn't -- Rhonda didn't eat a lot for
dinner. Rhonda was upset and her stomach was in knots,
and I suggested maybe she needed something to eat to
put in her stomach.
Q And did she agree with that?
A She did in theory but --
Q No. I understand. Who actually got the
information to order the pizza?
A I believe Rhonda did.
Q Okay. And at that point who had -- did you
go downstairs to get it?
A Yes.
Q Did you have to go outside and meet somebody
outside in a public parking lot?
A No. It was in the lobby.
Q Okay. And is that lobby secured and locked?
A Yes, it is.
Q Okay. And explain to the jury how that area
works. Like Rhonda started talking about a key card or
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swiping --
A Well, the elevator's locked. You have to
have a room key to operate the elevator.
Q So the pizza guy couldn't come up?
A Correct.
Q All right. And again did you ever go outside
other than the area of the elevator to get that pizza?
A No, I did not.
Q Okay. When you brought the pizza up, did
Ms. Rouer try to eat the pizza?
A She did. She tried to eat a slice.
Q Okay. Did you eat any of the pizza?
A No. I had no appetite.
Q Okay. And at that point you guys still had
some alcoholic beverages in the room you could make?
A Yes, we did.
Q And did you make them?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. Can you tell the jury was it to have a
nightcap and put your head on a pillow and watch a
movie?
A No. It was trying to calm down, trying to --
I mean we were both so upset.
Q And at that point were your hands still
shaky?
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2903
A Absolutely.
Q Was your body still shaky?
A Yes, it was.
Q What about Ms. Rouer?
A She was quaking.
Q Visibly?
A Visibly quaking.
Q Okay. And is that the reason why you poured
alcohol?
A Yes, it is.
Q At some point -- let me ask you this: Did
you guys keep drinking all night long?
A No. I think it was the one that we had.
Q Were you toasting each other, hey, what a
beautiful day?
A Not at that point.
Q Okay. Was there any type of joy or occasion
of what a wonderful day, let's have a drink, anything
along those lines?
A No, no. It was all we are stunned and, you
know, horrified and just couldn't -- couldn't believe
that things escalated the way they did.
Q Okay.
A Over a common courtesy.
Q At any time -- talking about that, of
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2904
escalating, at any time did you ever raise your voice
to the men in the SUV?
A I think when I said you're not going to kill
me, you son of a bitch, I may have had a little
inflection in that but other than that, no.
Q Okay. Did you ever curse at the men in the
SUV?
A Other than the last thing I said, no.
Q Did you ever say anything derogatory at all
to the guys in the SUV?
A No, I did not, not even when they were saying
derogatory things towards me.
Q Okay. Now at some point does Ms. Rouer fall
asleep?
A Yeah. That was around midnight.
Q Okay. And were you able to sleep?
A I fell asleep around 5:00 a.m..
Q Okay. Why was it so hard for you to fall
asleep?
A I was still processing the emotions and
trying to make sense of what happened.
Q And at this point are you still upset or
shaken?
A I'm -- I'm upset and shaken, and again we
still don't know about the death. It's just a shooting
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2905
at this point.
Q Okay. And at some time though in the middle
of the evening or the middle of that night you do learn
that somebody had passed away?
A Yes. I used my phone looking -- we didn't
have a computer with us. I had been watching the
channels for news, and I found on my phone they talked
about the death.
Q Okay. And can you tell the jury what you saw
on your phone that led you to believe that?
A I don't remember exactly what it said but it
was something about a shooting on Southside and it
showed a fatality.
Q Okay. And obviously if they used the word
fatality you know what that means?
A Yes.
Q Can you tell the jury how you reacted when
you saw that on your phone?
A I -- I -- I ran to the bathroom.
Q And tell the jury why you ran to the
bathroom.
A I vomited.
Q Okay. And at that point had you had any food
in your system since the dinner at the wedding?
A Not since dinner.
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2906
Q Okay. And again at that point did you decide
to put on a movie or eat pizza?
A No.
Q Okay. How long were you in that bathroom
sick to your stomach?
A All of the rest of the night until, you know,
I think I was finally able to lay down around 5:00.
Q Okay. And what time -- did you have a great
sleep? Did you sleep in till 9:00, 10:00 o'clock in
the morning?
A No. We were up at 7:00.
Q Okay. And at 7:00 o'clock where were you
when Ms. Rouer woke up?
A I was in the bathroom trying to get clean. I
mean I took -- I was taking a shower.
Q And that was because of what you had
experienced physically that night?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And what did you hear Ms. Rouer say to
you?
A Well, I guess the T.V. was on and she saw the
news report, and that's -- that's where she was calling
me.
Q Okay. How was she calling you? Was it just
a soft, hey, Mike?
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2907
A No, it was hysterical.
Q Okay. And do you recall what she said when
she said that to you or how she called you?
A Yeah. She said my name three times.
Q Okay. And at that point you knew she was
awake?
A Yes, I did.
Q Okay. Did you go out of the bathroom to talk
with her?
A I did. I went out and I gave her a hug and I
told her I know.
Q And at that point what did Ms. Rouer say to
you immediately after that hug?
A Take me home.
Q How many times did she say that to you?
A Multiple times, like three, four times.
Q Was there inflection in her voice or was she
calm about it?
A Oh, she was quaking.
Q Okay. Was it safe to say based on your
knowledge and experience was she panicking?
A Yes. She was panicking and almost mute. I
mean she couldn't really talk other than to say take me
home.
Q Okay. And at that point did you leave the
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2908
hotel?
A Yeah. We were -- we checked out at
8:00 o'clock. I mean we were up at 7:00 and out of
there.
Q Okay. And you still had to get your things
together and get Charlie together?
A It took about that long to get together.
Q Okay. At some point did you guys decide,
hey, let's go out to breakfast?
A No.
Q Let's go have some coffee and orange juice?
A No. We had plans to spend the afternoon with
my son in St. Augustine and, you know, that was off the
table as well.
Q So if you wanted to leave Jacksonville you
could have actually -- you had a reservation at a bed
and breakfast in St. Augustine?
A Yes.
Q Did you go there and stop there?
A No.
Q Did you even go look and say, hey, maybe
we'll just stay here and hang out?
A No. We -- we were -- we had --
Q What were your intentions after speaking with
Rhonda at that moment?
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2909
A Well, we were going to go back to Brevard
where we live. I have a neighbor who's in law
enforcement.
Q Is that Mr. Ken Lescallett?
A Yes, it is.
Q Okay. Does he travel between two homes?
A Yes. He's in Washington, D.C..
Q Okay. And did you make a phone call to your
neighbor, Ken Lescallett?
A I did. We left the hotel at 8:00 and I was
calling Ken at 8:30.
Q Okay. And what was your intent or what was
your purpose to talk to Ken or call Ken Lescallett?
A Well, Ken is a federal law enforcement
official. He knows me personally, and I figured if I
went and I talked to him he -- I knew he had friends in
the local Brevard County Sheriff where we could go
together and I could speak to my hometown Sheriff to
tell them what happened and, you know, hopefully they
would listen to my side.
Q Did you know anybody in law enforcement in
Jacksonville, Florida?
A No.
Q Did you still have any contacts to the guys
on the Navy base in Jacksonville, Florida?
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2910
A No.
Q Okay. Again in terms of your mental state,
were you your normal self at this point?
A No, not even close.
Q And as we sit here today 15 months later are
you even remotely close of how you were that morning?
A No.
Q Okay. Do you recall the drive back from
Jacksonville to home?
A It was two-and-a-half hour drive, and it went
-- I mean it was over in a blink of an eye.
Q Okay. Was there a whole lot of discussion or
talking between you and Ms. Rouer?
A No. She -- she was mute the whole time.
Q Okay. Did it appear that she was still
visibly shaken up?
A Absolutely.
Q And again was she crying and sobbing at parts
of this trip?
A Yes, she was. She had fits of silence, fits
of sobbing.
Q And obviously did this play into your mind of
you still being upset?
A Yes. Again I -- I knew I had done nothing
wrong but it was hard to get her to understand this,
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2911
and at the time I was more concerned with her, get her
taken care of, go deal with law enforcement later.
Q Okay. Did you have any belief or inclination
that you were going to be accused of murder?
A Absolutely not.
Q Okay. Let me ask you this: Did you still
have a pilot's license November, 2012?
A Yes.
Q Was it still valid the day you were arrested?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Did you lose the ability to fly a
plane?
A No. I had a valid passport as well.
Q Okay. And you had money in the bank?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you still had friends that you
knew where they lived, you could drive to their house
who they had an airplane?
A Yes.
MR. GUY: Judge, I'm going to object to
leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Let me ask you this, Mr. Dunn: Did you have
friends, if at all, that owned airplanes November of
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2912
2012?
A Several.
Q Did you drive to their house?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you call them?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you ask anybody to try to fly you to the
Bahamas or another country, anything like that?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you contact the airlines?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you contact a car rental place?
A No.
Q Did you even try to stop anywhere to use your
credit card to do anything to buy a bus pass or
anything like that?
A No, I did not.
Q Did you get ahold of Ken Lescallett when you
called there at 8:30 in the morning?
A Yeah, I did, and the purpose of my call was
to make sure he was going to be home and I told him
that I would be there about 10:30 and I had something
very important to discuss with him, but I wanted to
make sure he was going to be there.
Q Okay. And did he indicate to you he would be
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2913
there to talk to you?
A Yes, and he was.
Q Okay. When you got home -- we saw some
pictures of where you guys used to live. Do you recall
seeing those pictures?
A I do.
Q And there was a little bluish silver truck
outside. Whose car was that?
A That's Rhonda's.
Q Okay. Where does Ms. Rouer normally park?
A Right where that car was at.
Q And where do you normally park?
A In the garage.
Q And why do you keep your car in the garage
and hers outside?
A Hers is bigger. Mine is newer. I mean the
combo of the two.
Q And, as a matter of fact, that's only a
little one-car garage?
A Right.
Q I saw some things on the walls on the side.
Why are those there?
A Those are like door protectors, little
bumpers.
Q And are those in line with exactly where your
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2914
door would open?
A Yeah. I installed those.
Q Okay. Let me ask you this: When you pulled
in, did you close the garage?
A No. I'm -- no.
Q Did you try to conceal your vehicle?
A Absolutely not.
Q Did you go try to ditch your vehicle
somewhere else and have somebody pick you up?
A No.
Q And when you get home, what's the first thing
you and Rhonda do?
A We -- we unloaded the dog.
Q Where did you go after that?
A I went -- headed out to the back yard, and
that's how I would get to my neighbor's.
Q Okay. And kind of explain for the jury
because we didn't get a lot of pictures of your
neighborhood, is it kind of where like all the doors
face in the front like a regular house or are the doors
on the side and the back?
A Most of the front doors face the road. The
back doors face the ocean but the side units the front
door is actually on the side.
Q And where does Mr. Lescallett --
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2915
A He's on the side.
Q Okay. So --
A He's got a back door.
Q I was going to say what's the easiest path to
get to his house?
A The back.
Q Okay. And have you done that before?
A Yes.
Q Have you socialized with him before?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So to walk to that back door was not
going to surprise him?
A No.
Q Okay.
A That was the usual.
Q Okay. And at some point before you went over
to Mr. Lescallett's house after unloading Charlie, did
Ms. Rouer get a phone call?
A She did. Her phone rang and it was a 904
area code, and we assumed it was my son calling and I
answered.
Q When you answered the phone, did you try to
disguise your voice?
A No.
Q Did you try to muffle it and say, hey, don't
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2916
use my name, any type of deception?
A No, absolutely not.
Q And when you answered the phone, who was on
the phone?
A It was Detective Musser.
Q Okay. And did he tell you who he was and say
this is Detective Musser or did he just say it was a
detective from Jacksonville?
A Detective Musser, I'm a homicide detective
from Jacksonville.
Q Okay. And as soon as he said that what was
the first thing you said to him?
A I know why you're calling. It was
self-defense. I'm on my way to a law enforcement
officer's home right now. My intention is to make my
report to the Brevard County Sheriff.
Q Okay. And what did Detective Musser respond
when you said I'm on my way to law enforcement to make
a report?
A He thought that was a good idea. He said
that I had about ten minutes to be on my way.
Q Okay. And you were already walking out that
back door to your neighbor, Mr. Lescallett's, house?
A I was.
Q Okay. And when you got to Mr. Lescallett's
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2917
house -- how close of a walk is it? I mean is it a
mile away, a quarter --
A Oh, no. It's 3 minutes away, so 30, 40 feet.
Q Okay. And when you get there, is he there to
open the door and greet you?
A Yes, he was.
Q Okay. Do you advise him of what happened in
Jacksonville?
A Yes, and without going into a lot of detail I
just kind of told him the blunt facts, that I was
involved in a shooting and somebody is dead.
Q Okay. And did you ask him for assistance of
saying I want to contact Brevard County Sheriff's
Office?
A I did, and I made sure he knew it was a
self-defense situation.
Q Okay. And did you have your firearm on you?
A No. It was in my car.
Q Okay. Did you try to get rid of the firearm?
Did you try to hide it, anything like that?
A No.
Q Okay. As a matter of fact, when you walked
away from your car you left it in your garage?
A Correct.
Q Is your garage still open?
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2918
A When I walked away it was.
Q Okay. Now do you even know that Ms. Rouer
tried to follow you or was behind you?
A She showed up at Ken's eventually.
Q Okay. And at some point were you in your
neighbor's house drinking a glass of water?
A Yes, I was.
Q And was Mr. Lescallett on the phone?
A Yes. He was -- he had a business card for
one of the local Sheriff deputies. We met him. I
don't remember his last name but that was the
gentleman, and so he was calling to speak to that
detective or deputy specifically because he had
personal knowledge of him.
Q Okay. It's somebody that Mr. Lescallett
could trust?
A Correct.
Q Okay. During that conversation, and
obviously don't go into what Mr. Lescallett said, but
as Mr. Lescallett's on the phone is it obvious he's
talking to law enforcement?
A Yes.
Q Okay. At some point does the phone ring
again for Ms. Rouer?
A Yeah. Rhonda's phone rang and now it's a 321
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2919
area code. That's the local for where we were at and
it was that Brevard County deputy Sheriff on the phone
for me.
Q And then did you get on the phone and talk?
A I spoke with him.
Q Okay. And what did he say to you? When you
got on the phone, again did you try to disguise your
voice or your name?
A No.
Q What did you say or what -- did he give you
instructions?
A He did, and I was a little confused because I
thought Ken -- I'm sorry, Mr. Lescallett was on the
phone speaking with him and he was here at our request,
but he was actually there to execute a high-risk
arrest.
Q Did he tell you that on the phone?
A Well, he -- he said I need you to come
outside with your shirt off and your hands up.
Q Okay. And when you said high-risk arrest,
that's because the witness that testified was that same
one?
A Yeah. I just learned that today or the other
day. Sorry.
Q Okay. So he didn't say that to you on the
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2920
phone, you just saw his testimony?
A You're right. Yeah. He said I want you to
come outside with your shirt off and your hands up.
Q Okay. Did you ever say anything back to him
or resist in any way saying I'm not coming out?
A No.
Q Okay. What did you do with your shirt?
A Took it off.
Q What did you do with the phone?
A Set it down.
Q What did you do with your person?
A I went outside.
Q When you walked outside you walked outside
Ken's front door or did you walk out the back door?
A I went out his front door which is the side.
Q Okay. And that would be closest to the road?
A Well, actually it was -- there was a wall
dividing our area with another condo, so it was closest
to a wall on the north side of the compound.
Q Let me ask you this: If you wanted to flee
could you have hopped that wall?
A Yes.
Q Would they have even known you had hopped
that wall?
A I don't think so.
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2921
Q Let me ask you then, tell the jury why you
think that. When you walked outside of Ken
Lescallett's house, what direction was the Brevard
County Sheriff's Office facing?
A They were facing my front door.
Q And were you actually behind them?
A Yeah. Ken had or Mr. Lescallett has an
extended cab pick-up truck so it's like 30 feet long,
so I had to walk past the truck to get out to the
parking lot and that put me 20 feet behind the
Sheriffs.
Q And they were -- because they were focused on
your unit?
A Yes, with rifles.
Q All right. And at that point did they know
you were behind them?
A I -- they did not until I announced my
presence.
Q Did you try to run?
A No.
Q Did you try to flee or hop a wall at that
point?
A No.
Q Okay. At that point how did you get their
attention?
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2922
A I think I called out to them.
Q Okay.
A I don't recall what I said but it was
something like I'm over here.
Q Okay. And did that take them off-guard when
they turned around?
A Very much so. They seemed surprised.
Q And again you're standing there with your
shirt off?
A In my hand.
Q As instructed by law enforcement?
A Yes, sir.
Q And what instructions did they give you at
that point if you recall?
A I think they wanted me to kneel with my
ankles crossed.
Q And did you do that?
A Yes, I did.
Q Did you comply with all of their
instructions?
A Everything.
Q Did you ever resist, become aggressive,
verbally challenge them, anything?
A No. I had no reason to.
Q At some point did they put you in the back of
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2923
a patrol vehicle?
A Yes.
Q Did they take you to the Brevard County
Sheriff's Office?
A They did.
Q Did they tell you why?
A I'm sure they did.
Q Do you even recall what they said?
A No, no.
Q What was your state of mind at that point?
A Well, after what happened the night before
and the two hours sleep I think it's safe to say I was
not in my normal state. I don't know how to describe
-- it was a surreal experience to say the least.
Q Had you ever been in that mental or emotional
state your entire adult life?
A Never. Never had anything traumatic like
that happen.
Q And at some point were you put into an
interview room?
A I was.
Q Okay. And obviously they had cameras. You
could see they had recording devices?
A Yeah. The cameras were fairly obvious.
Q Okay. And how long did they make you sit
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2924
there by yourself if you recall?
A It was hard to judge time. I mean I can tell
how long an hour is but not that day.
Q Okay. And at some point do detectives come
in from the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And obviously you saw one was
Detective Musser?
A Right. And Detective Oliver was the other.
Q Okay. And do they ask you to give a
statement?
A They did.
Q And did you talk to them?
A I did. I spoke to them freely. I had
nothing to hide.
Q Were you cooperative with them?
A Yes.
Q Were you trying to be evasive?
A No, I was not.
Q Were you sarcastic?
A No.
Q Were you rude?
A No.
Q Were you disrespectful?
A Not even a little.
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2925
Q And at that point did you even know that they
already had a warrant for your arrest for murder?
A No, I did not.
MR. STROLLA: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Guy, cross examination.
CROSS EXAMINATION
BY MR. GUY:
Q Mr. Dunn, you love Rhonda Rouer?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q Right? You love her a lot, right?
A Yes, sir, I do.
Q And you loved her back then, correct?
A I love her today.
Q November 23rd, 2012, you were in love with
her?
A Yes, sir.
Q You cared about her?
A Yes, sir.
Q Right. And when she got into that car she
asked you what happened, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And you told this jury you explained it to
her, right?
A Yes, I did.
Q And she as you said was a wreck, right?
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2926
A She was.
Q Because she knew that you had just fired into
a car with human beings inside?
A She doesn't understand self-defense but you
are right, she was very upset over what I had done.
Q Right. Right. And so you guys were together
for three miles and she was hysterical?
A Crying, yes.
Q Right. You did not tell her during that
three miles anyone pointed any weapon at you, did you?
A I think I did. I think I was very clear that
they threatened my life. I was very clear that they
came out of the car advancing upon me and whether she
had comprehended what I was saying I couldn't say.
Q My question was: Did you tell her they had a
weapon of any kind?
A Yes, I did.
Q You did. What did you tell her? Tell the
jury the term that you used to describe the weapon.
A I don't know what I said but I told her that
they had a weapon, they threatened my life and they
were -- they -- he advanced upon me.
Q How did you describe the weapon? Did you say
they had a sword? Did you say they had a machete?
A Gun.
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2927
Q A gun. You used the word gun with Rhonda
Rouer?
A Yes, I did.
Q When? When?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor?
THE WITNESS: Multiple times.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, if I can, argumentative.
If Mr. Guy can ask the one question. I don't think
you have to repeat a question.
THE COURT: One at a time, Mr. Guy.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Sir, are you telling this jury that on the
way back to the hotel you told Rhonda Rouer that the
boys in the car had a gun?
A If I told her on the way to the hotel I told
her several times at the hotel. I told her several
times on the way home that this was self-defense.
Q That wasn't my question.
A Well, the whole -- the whole conversation
resolved around gun, threat, they came out of the car
at me, so it wasn't just they had a gun because when he
just had a gun I didn't shoot him. It wasn't until he
made specific threats and got out of his car and came
after me.
Q Okay.
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2928
A So all of that was part of the conversation.
Q All right. I'm going to take this in little,
tiny increments now so follow me. From the time you
left the Gate Station until the time you got back to
the Sheraton how many times did you use the word gun to
describe what the boys -- let me finish, what the boys
in the car had?
A I couldn't tell you.
Q Was it more than one?
A At least one.
Q Okay. And when you got back to the hotel she
was still a wreck, right?
A That's correct.
Q She was upset?
A That's correct.
Q She didn't even go into the room, right? She
was sitting out by the elevator?
A She went into the room to change and then we
went out to the club room.
Q Right. And she as she testified was waiting
for the police to come, right?
A Well, we were waiting for the red SUV to
come. Now that's what I was waiting for. I couldn't
tell you what she was waiting for, but that was what --
that was the sentiment that I understood that she was
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waiting for retaliation.
Q Okay. We'll get back to that, the SUV. How
many times during that time did you tell her they had a
gun?
A I don't think we discussed it because we were
in a public area.
Q Okay. Well, you did go back to your room,
correct?
A I'm talking about in the club room.
Q I understand. Now I'm talking about you go
back to your room, right?
A Right.
Q She was still a wreck?
A Yes, she was.
Q Okay. Tell the members of the jury how many
times you said to her they had a gun.
A At least once.
Q And when she woke up she heard that somebody
had been killed, right?
A Yes, she did.
Q Okay. Tell the jury how many times you told
her at that point don't worry, Honey, they had a gun.
A I didn't say that.
Q The truth is, Mr. Dunn, you never told Rhonda
Rouer ever that they had a gun?
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MR. STROLLA: Your Honor -- Judge, if I can
object?
THE WITNESS: That's incorrect.
THE COURT: Hang on.
MR. STROLLA: Counsel testifying as the truth
is this is asking the question --
THE COURT: It's cross examination,
Mr. Strolla, overruled.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Mr. Dunn, the truth is you never told the
love of your life that those boys had a gun?
A You weren't there.
Q Did you? You did tell her that?
A I said you were not there.
Q I get that. I know that. The truth is you
didn't tell her about a gun, did you?
A I --
MR. STROLLA: Judge --
THE COURT: Hang on. Mr. Strolla, if you want
to object please stand up and make the objection
loudly so everybody will stop.
MR. STROLLA: Asked and answered, Your Honor.
MR. GUY: Judge, I don't think it's been
answered.
THE COURT: Actually I forgot the question.
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2931
Ask the question again and see if you're going to
make the same objection.
BY MR. GUY:
Q The truth is you never told Rhonda Rouer they
had a gun?
A That is incorrect.
MR. STROLLA: Same objection.
THE COURT: All right. Well, he's answered
it.
BY MR. GUY:
Q You never told them they had any kind of
weapon, did you?
A That's incorrect.
Q And the truth is that Jordan Davis was inside
the red SUV when you shot and killed him?
A That is incorrect.
Q You remember -- remember the letter -- I'm
going to call it the letter, that you dictated to your
brother, Matt?
A What was the title?
Q The day after Thanksgiving, Black Friday,
2012. Looks like this.
A Yes, I do.
Q You remember that?
A I do.
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Q Okay. Tell the jury how that came to be.
A I wrote that as like therapy for myself to
get it out as well as to inform my family and friends
what really happened to counter the lies and
misinformation that the State Attorney and the media
were putting out about what happened.
Q So this is it? This is -- this is the
historical document of what happened on the evening of
November 23rd, 2012, correct?
A Sure, with reason. I mean I didn't write the
nasty words for my grandmother to read.
Q Anything other than that you didn't write?
A You'd have to be specific.
Q Okay. Well, let me be more specific. Do you
remember writing, quote, on page two -- do you need a
copy?
A I don't have a copy of it.
Q Would you like one? Would you like one?
A Sure.
Q Page two?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, I'm going to object
to reading something that's not in evidence,
improper impeachment with predicate.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. GUY:
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2933
Q Sir, is that the letter?
A It appears to be.
Q All right. Well, I don't -- I want to be
right. Is that it?
MR. GUY: And, Judge, for the record I'll mark
it -- I think we're on 8-S.
THE COURT: S as in Sam?
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Okay. For identification
purposes?
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE WITNESS: Yes. This is the letter.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Okay. Is that fair and accurate copy of it?
A It appears to be.
Q All right.
MR. GUY: Judge, I would move this into
evidence as state's -- I think we're on 201.
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, we would object.
It's not sworn. It's improper. It's hearsay. I
understand it's a letter written by Mr. Dunn, but
at this point there's been no proper predicate laid
in terms of marking it into evidence in the
defense's case in chief.
MR. GUY: Judge, he testified this is an
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2934
accurate account of what happened and I'm going --
I intend to use it to impeach him.
THE COURT: Your objection is overruled. It
will be received as state's 201.
(The item last-above referred to was received
into evidence as State's Exhibit No. 201. )
BY MR. GUY:
Q Again the top of page two. I'm going to ask
you to look for this language. Quote, when I turned
back to my left the guy who was advancing on me had
apparently seen me go for my own weapon and dove back
inside.
MR. STROLLA: I'm going to object. Again it's
improper impeachment. He hasn't been asked if
that's what he said. He hasn't been asked --
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. GUY: Judge -- let me clarify.
BY MR. GUY:
Q You just told this jury that when you fired
-- Jordan Davis, you now know who he is, right?
A Un-huh.
Q Was outside the car, is that what you said?
A His door was open. I don't know where his
body was, but I wrote here he apparently did because of
what I learned later.
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Q Hold on. Not five minutes ago didn't you
just tell the jury he was outside the car?
A He -- he -- he sure was. I mean his door was
open.
Q Okay. But you wrote in your --
A You know, if his feet were outside and his
body was inside that's a little splitting hairs.
Q Mr. Dunn, did you write he had apparently
seen me go for my own weapon and dove back inside the
SUV?
A Yes, absolutely. That's what I wrote.
That's -- that's not what I knew at the time but this
is what I surmised.
Q You referenced a -- those were your words
though, right, that's in that document?
A Correct.
Q Okay. And you reference this interview with
the Sheriff's Office. You remember that?
A Yes.
Q Okay. They read you your constitutional
rights, right?
A Yeah.
Q Yes?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And you agreed to speak with them?
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2936
A Yes. I had nothing to hide.
Q Right. And it's on -- it's on videotape,
correct?
A Yes. It would have been nice if you had
shown that.
Q We're not done. It's on videotape and
audiotape, correct?
A Yes.
Q And isn't it true, sir, that you said, and if
you need a transcript I'm happy to give it to you to
refresh your memory, he's coming out. I think he saw
what I was doing and was running back in. You remember
saying that?
A Sure. And what you have to understand is I
saw him exit the car and saw his head above the
doorframe and then after that I didn't see him any
more. He didn't just go poof and disappear so he went
somewhere, but the door was open and then the door was
closed.
Q So you're telling this jury that after you
shot Jordan Davis through his aorta that he reached
over and pulled the door back shut, is that what you're
telling me?
A I don't know how that happened. Maybe it
happened because the car was backing up.
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2937
Q Well --
A But if you look at the bullet hole in the
door it's plainly open. Do -- do the M.E.'s picture
that showed all the dowels and you'll see it.
Q That's coming. You see state's 32?
A Sure.
Q You see that? You see that piece of plastic
in the seat?
A I see four pieces of plastic in the seat.
Q Right. You think the -- you think the door
was open when those flew into the car?
A I think you should look at the bullet impacts
where it says debris inside.
Q You think that piece of plastic -- let me
finish. Do you think that piece of plastic just kind
of made a right turn and flew into the car?
A That's not accurate.
Q The picture's not accurate?
A Your characterization of a right turn blowing
into the car is inaccurate.
Q How about that picture?
A Right. And if you open the door a little bit
that angle would match the same angle as the dowels in
the front door.
Q Uh-huh. So Jordan Davis was standing outside
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2938
his car going like this?
A No. I think like I said he was diving in.
Q He was diving in before you fired?
A As I was firing.
Q I thought you just told us he was outside the
car when you were firing?
A His feet were. He was coming after me, sir.
What he did after he saw me go for my weapon he didn't
try to say anything. He -- I didn't see him.
Q Let me get this straight then: This man has
a shotgun, right?
A As far as I know he's hiding behind the door.
Q Right. With a shotgun?
A Yes.
Q You said you shot --
A I saw four inches of a thick barrel.
Q Right. And you know what a shotgun looks
like?
A Absolutely.
Q Okay. And this is the man who's been
carrying on now for how long saying I'm going to kill
you, you're dead, something, something, right?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So what you're telling this jury is
that when you actually turn your attention away from
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2939
him and go to grab a firearm that he suddenly changed
his mind and said, oh, you know what, you're right, I
won't do that? Is that what you're telling the jury?
A I don't know what he thought or said but
apparently.
Q I guess he changed his mind?
A Apparently.
Q Jordan Davis was never a threat to you, was
he, Mr. Dunn?
A Absolutely he was. Between his actions and
his threats.
Q Jordan Davis never got out of that car, did
he?
THE COURT: Mr. Guy, let him finish his answer
before you ask another question.
THE WITNESS: Yes, he did, and not only did he
get out, his head cleared the -- the window frame.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Did his head look like the guy that we saw in
the identification picture?
A Well, all that happened so fast I really
couldn't tell you what he looked like.
Q Your interview with the police, that was
about 2:45 the next day, right?
A I don't know what time it was.
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2940
Q It was in the afternoon, right? You
remember?
A Yes. I don't know what time it was.
Q Is that fair? Is that about right?
A It seems about right.
Q Okay. And so we are many, many hours from
the time of the shooting, right?
A Yes.
Q And you're the stoic one, right?
A Yes. I was still in shock.
Q You were remaining calm for Rhonda, right?
A Yes.
Q But the truth is, sir, you lied to the
police, didn't you?
A How so?
Q Well, they asked you specifically was the
music playing when you pulled up, and you said, no. Do
you remember that?
A I do, and I don't remember the heavy base
being an issue when we first pulled up.
Q Okay. That's not what they asked you. They
asked you was the music playing when you pulled up?
A Right. And it wasn't. I mean if they had
music on it wasn't heavy base where I would notice it.
Q Okay. But it was loud enough to be thug
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2941
music, right?
A That's how -- what Rhonda characterized. I
don't recall saying that.
Q You don't recall saying I hate that thug
music?
A No. If I ever said anything I would have
called it rap crap. Thug music isn't a term I would
use.
Q So Ms. Rouer got that wrong?
A I wasn't going to say anything about it but I
don't recall saying that and that's not a term I would
use.
Q Okay. I mean she wasn't upset when y'all
were at the Gate Station, right, when you pulled in?
A You got to realize there's a lot of trauma
afterwards and she could have imagined something.
Q She could have. She could have imagined it.
You could have imagined the gun, correct?
A Anything's possible, sir. It's just not
likely. Like I said between his threats and actions
they were reinforcing what my eyes were telling me.
Q And the detectives actually went on about the
music, didn't they, and you said, no, it wasn't until
Rhonda got out of the car and she had been gone for a
little bit?
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2942
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, again I'm going to
object to improper impeachment. Again there's no
predicate to read from the evidence because there's
been no dispute.
MR. GUY: Judge, it's a prior inconsistent
statement.
MR. STROLLA: Lack of foundation predicate.
THE COURT: Let me see counsel at the sidebar
real quick.
(Sidebar discussion with reporter present.)
THE COURT: You're quoting from the interview?
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Which is a prior statement so it
can be used for impeachment. My only concern is
just make sure you set it up. I'm not sure that
you set it up. I forgot which one it was. All I'm
saying is just make sure it's set up and then use
it to your heart's content.
MR. GUY: Judge, I believe on this question I
asked him was the music on when you pulled up and
he said, yes, and he told the police it wasn't on.
THE COURT: That's proper impeachment.
MR. STROLLA: Again we have to set up the
proper predicate. I think he asked him about five
questions ago if they had discussions about it and
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2943
then he started reading from it, so again if you
are going to do the proper impeachment for a prior
inconsistent statement you've got to ask the
question, did you say this and then say isn't it
true you didn't say that? You have to let him
confirm it and then if he confirms the testimony
then you can read it. I think Mr. Guy asked the
question about four or five questions ago and then
started reading from it.
THE COURT: I'm going to chuckle because I
appreciate you telling me that's the way it should
work. I just wish somebody would have done it
before we got to this point because nobody has
impeached anybody, at least with a deposition in my
mind the way it should be done, but that aside I
think what he is saying, Mr. Guy, is it needs to be
did you say this? He says, no. Impeach him. Did
you say that? He says, no. Impeach him, instead
of maybe combining some things.
MR. GUY: Okay. Judge, I understand the
Court's ruling but it's the same -- the bottom line
he gave the answer twice that's inconsistent so not
only did he say it once to me he repeated it.
THE COURT: And you can do it the second time.
MR. GUY: Okay.
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THE COURT: I'm okay with that. I'm just
saying I think what Mr. Strolla is saying it needs
to be a little more piecemealed (sic). It's going
to be a little more tedious.
MR. GUY: That's fine.
THE COURT: That works.
MS. COREY: The transcript is in the
electronic box. If you want to follow along that
transcript is in there.
(Sidebar discussion concluded.)
THE COURT: All right. The objection is
overruled. Mr. Guy.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Mr. Dunn, your testimony this afternoon or
this morning is that when you pulled up there was music
playing in the red SUV?
A Yeah. There may have been music playing but
it wasn't that heavy thumping noise that bothered me.
Q Okay. Isn't it true you said to the
detectives still on the topic of music, no, it wasn't
until Rhonda got out of the car and she had been gone
for a little bit?
A That the thumping started, correct.
Q Okay. But they were asking you about music?
A That agrees with my letter as well, by the
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2945
way. I'm sorry. You know, music is music, whether
it's lyrics and instruments. My complaint was the
heavy base that was reverberating the body panels.
Q Okay. Let me use your words because you're
saying the music is playing when you pulled up, right?
A Right.
Q Okay. Do you remember this question and this
answer in your interview:
"Q Okay. Just kind of walk me through
kind of what happened at that point."
This is you:
"A Well, I'm embarrassed to say but
Rhonda got out. She's in the store and there's like an
SUV next to us, and then the music starts."
A Sure, in that case I probably should have
said the heavy base thumping.
Q But you said music starts?
A Correct.
Q And what did you say to her? You didn't say
I hate that thug music. What did you say?
A I didn't say this but if I had said anything
I would have characterized it as rap crap, not thug
music. That's not a term I'm familiar with.
Q Okay. But rap crap, you don't like that
either, do you?
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A I don't like the thumping noise.
Q Especially when it's loud, right?
A Yeah. It hurts my ears.
Q All right. You testified this afternoon or
this morning that you had three or four rum and Cokes,
right?
A Yeah. They were small. I mean probably
equal one or two normal size drinks.
Q Okay.
A Probably one or two ounces.
Q Rhonda Rouer got that right, the number of
Cokes you had, rum and Cokes?
A She did.
Q Okay. Do you remember telling the police
when they asked you if you had had anything to drink at
the wedding you said I had a toast and a rum and Coke?
A Right. I said I had one.
Q Right. But now today you're saying you had
three or four?
A Well, in my defense one ounce of alcohol is
one drink to me, and I guess I was wrong. I probably
had two ounces of alcohol.
Q And your testimony today is that Jordan Davis
said to you this shit is going down tonight?
A No. This shit's going down now.
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2947
Q This shit's going down now. Okay. You
didn't -- you didn't tell that to the Sheriff's Office,
did you?
A I don't think I did. You know, I had two
hours of sleep. This whole incident was very new, but
after -- if you can call it a night's sleep in the jail
I did have an interview with my attorney.
Q Let me ask you --
A And all this -- you know, instead of being
interrogated I was actually interviewed and this extra
detail came out.
Q Interrogated? Did they threaten you? Did
the police threaten you?
A Well, you know, it was combative so that
wasn't an interview, sir. It was an interrogation.
Q Did they -- did they promise you anything?
A (Shakes head negatively.)
Q Like to get you to answer a certain way?
A Nope.
Q Did they threaten you physically?
A No.
Q Did they threaten you verbally?
A They were combative.
Q Did they tell you you don't have to make a
statement, right?
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2948
A Sure.
Q And you did?
A But they were argumentative. They weren't
trying to withdraw information from me.
Q And did they tell you if at any point you
want to stop talking you can stop talking?
A In the beginning they did.
Q Well, did they ever take that back? Did they
ever tell you you couldn't stop?
A No, but they weren't stressing that over and
over.
Q Well, you did sign a rights form saying you
understood your rights, right?
A Correct. I --
Q Did you --
A I had -- I had nothing to hide. You know, if
I had further recollections after getting more than two
hours of sleep I think that's normal.
Q Isn't it true that Detective Musser said to
you is there anything else you can tell us that you
want to tell us about what happened?
A I believe he did.
Q And you said, nope, that's it?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, if I can just object
and approach for one minute, Your Honor.
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2949
THE COURT: Sure.
(Sidebar discussion with reporter present.)
MR. STROLLA: Judge, just for purposes of this
line of questioning it wasn't a legal objection.
He didn't ask anything wrong. I want to object to
stop -- my client did invoke Miranda. There was
discussions about it, and I am just afraid that
Mr. Guy is coming on a slippery slope with an
untrained civilian witness where if he says
something you had the right to stop talking and he
said, yeah, but you got an attorney we have a huge
problem, mistrial, so that's why I objected and had
a sidebar to kind of put the brakes on.
MR. GUY: My question that he objected to was
about the detectives giving this guy the
opportunity to tell them anything he wanted to tell
them and he didn't tell them anything. You are
going down now. You are going down now.
MR. STROLLA: I am going to object to shifting
the burden then. If that's his intent I am going
to object to shifting the burden and Motion for
Mistrial.
THE COURT: What?
MR. STROLLA: What he just said I am trying to
show that he had the ability to say it and he
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2950
didn't say it and my client still doesn't have the
burden. Even after speaking you always have a
right not to present evidence yourself. Even if
you do agree to speak with them you can't shift the
burden and say, well, you had an opportunity to
tell them and you didn't tell them.
THE COURT: He didn't say that.
MR. STROLLA: He just said his intent was that
and again that's why I stopped the line of
questioning.
THE COURT: Okay. Let's -- let's -- how do I
put this? I don't have any problem with the
questions so far. The problem is Mr. Dunn isn't
always very responsive which nobody can help and so
this is a little bit all over the place and that's
where I think the problem comes in, so what I would
hope is we could hone the question and get Mr. Dunn
to hone in on the answer, but sometimes he is
saying some of these things and it just opens up
more cross.
MR. STROLLA: That was my concern, too, again
and Mr. Guy put on the record if you are going to
sit there and say you had an opportunity to say it
and you didn't the way it's phrased it's shifting
the burden.
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2951
THE COURT: I understand.
MR. STROLLA: So if he could rephrase it
narrowly.
THE COURT: The bottom line is you want him to
say or you want to say you did not tell them thus
and so?
MR. GUY: Right. Even though they said is
there anything else you want to tell us?
MR. STROLLA: I will object to shifting the
burden, Judge. That gets really close.
MS. COREY: May I have a moment with him?
THE COURT: Uh-huh.
MR. GUY: I mean the question I'm asking --
THE COURT: I don't think you need to add in,
you know. Even though he said you want to tell us
anything else I don't think you need it. Just keep
it to you didn't tell them.
MR. GUY: Okay.
THE COURT: You were there talking to him for
two-and-a-half hours and you didn't tell him.
MR. GUY: I will do it.
MR. STROLLA: Again I am going --
THE COURT: It's safer.
MR. STROLLA: Then I ask -- I'm assuming then
based on Mr. Guy's representation of why he asked
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2952
the question I did a Motion for Mistrial shifting
the burden. I assume the Court denied that.
THE COURT: He didn't ask it. He asked the
question up here.
MR. STROLLA: No. He started --
THE COURT: It hasn't happened.
MR. STROLLA: He did start asking because
Mr. Guy first said --
THE COURT: And you objected.
MR. STROLLA: And I understand that and when
he said his intent behind the question is --
THE COURT: I understand so I sustained your
objection to the question.
MR. STROLLA: Okay. I'm sorry. And then I
moved for mistrial. I assume that was denied.
THE COURT: I don't know why you would.
MR. STROLLA: Because again I think Mr. Guy
based on the questions that he asked --
THE COURT: He didn't do it.
MR. STROLLA: I think he started to and that's
why I objected and that's what I think --
THE COURT: And I sustained the objection.
MR. STROLLA: All right.
THE COURT: So nothing else ever happened.
MR. STROLLA: I'm agreeing. I'm putting on
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2953
the record, Judge --
THE COURT: To the extent you are moving for a
mistrial it's denied.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, just for clarification if
we're going to go back down that road I'm just --
THE COURT: Keep hopping back up.
MR. GUY: Judge, I can proffer what I'm going
to say. I'm going to say, sir, you were with the
police for an hour-and-a-half, whatever it was.
You never said this shit is going down.
THE COURT: That's fine.
MR. GUY: That's it.
MR. STROLLA: I'm going to -- I will just
place the objection on the record now, Your Honor,
and then you could overrule. So if that's going to
be the exact question --
THE COURT: It's going to be his question and
if he says he never told the police the kid said
this shit is going down now --
MR. STROLLA: Especially you were there for a
hour-and-a-half and you didn't say that am I
correct.
THE COURT: If you don't like that then don't
do that, Mr. Guy. You don't like the
hour-and-a-half.
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2954
MR. STROLLA: Because then it's saying you had
all this time to explain and shifts the burden.
THE COURT: Okay. Don't put the time in.
MR. GUY: Okay. That's fine.
(Sidebar discussion concluded.)
THE COURT: Mr. Guy.
MR. GUY: Thank you, Judge.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Mr. Dunn, the bottom line is in your
interview with the police you never said that Jordan
Davis said this shit's going down tonight or now?
A Correct. I did not, and I think I even
mischaracterized to the police the whole I'm going to
kill you because I was like they said -- it was coming
through at bits and pieces.
Q Okay. And you -- but you did give the police
an account, right?
A Yeah, as best I could under the
circumstances, two hours of sleep.
Q And you told them graphic details about what
happened, right?
A Somewhat.
Q And you told them that Jordan Davis was the
one threatening you, right?
A Yes. He was.
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2955
Q You didn't know his name but you said that
was the guy, the guy who was threatening me?
A He was in the rear passenger seat.
Q All right. But today you said there were
actually two guys in the back seat?
A Well, there were --
Q Let me finish. Two guys in the back seat who
had menacing looks on their faces, right?
A Yes, that's correct.
Q Okay. You didn't tell the Sheriff's Office
that, did you?
A I didn't think it was relevant.
Q You didn't?
A Well, not at the time.
Q Okay. Well, you knew you were being
questioned about a murder, right?
A Sure.
Q And so you just thought you'd leave that out?
A The guy in the rear passenger was the one
doing the threatening. The other guy was just looking
mean.
Q Let's -- let's talk about what this -- what
you saw was. As you sit here today what is it now?
A It was a shotgun.
Q It's a shotgun. Okay. What did you tell the
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2956
Sheriff's Office it was?
A I told them it was a shotgun.
Q Didn't you tell them it was a -- either a
barrel or a stick?
A Yes, I did, and this is after the police
telling me there's no weapon recovered at the car or
the scene and me believing the police are competent and
able to search the whole area so by process of
elimination, you know, it's like some kind of
industrial object, a pipe, something that would look
very much like a barrel, but at the time his actions
and his threats there was no -- no doubt in my mind
that that was a weapon, that that was a firearm.
Q But what --
A The doubt came in when the police started
telling me that they didn't recover anything in the car
or the scene, but as we've learned they didn't check
the scene.
Q And -- but you said at that time it could
have been a stick?
A Yeah, and again, two hours of sleep I
misspoke. I mean a stick doesn't really do justice to
it. Picture anything that looks like a barrel,
something with a metal patina right around the same
thickness of a shotgun barrel.
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2957
Q And isn't it true that the detective said at
some point is it possible it was your imagination and
you said, yes?
A No, I did not. I started to say that
anything is possible but not likely and it certainly
wasn't my imagination that he came out of the car.
Q You don't like that music, do you?
A It's not my style but, you know, when I was a
kid my folks didn't like rock and roll.
Q And they were -- they were listening to it
loud, right?
A Their body -- the body panels in their
vehicle were vibrating. The side windows of my car
they were vibrating the rear window. The rear mirror
in my car -- my eardrum was vibrating. It wasn't loud.
It was obnoxious.
Q And you didn't like it?
A It was painful. I asked for a common
courtesy, hey, could you turn that down, please? If
they would have said F.U., we're not doing it -- I mean
that's basically what they did. They turned it off,
turned it back on. I wasn't going to ask them again.
I was done. I asked them for a common courtesy. They
gave it. I said, thank you, and that was the end of
it. Even when they turned it back on that was the end
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2958
of it. It was Jordan Davis who kept escalating this to
the point where he -- I had no choice but to defend
myself. It was life or death.
Q Jordan Davis was -- he was getting on you,
right? I mean he was -- he was cussing, right?
A You know, I heard snips of what he was saying
but it wasn't until I heard I should fucking kill that
mother fucker that I started really paying attention.
Q And your -- your window's up, right?
A Yes, and I hear him screaming this.
Q Okay. I mean the window's up and the music's
so loud, the base is so loud that your rearview mirror
is rattling?
A Well, remember they shut it off once and then
turned it on and it's not quite as loud but, you know,
it's still annoying but we're not at the eardrum
vibrating level now.
Q But he's -- but you're telling this jury that
with your window closed and that music rattling you
could hear Jordan Davis what he was saying?
A Certainly, because the base isn't -- there's
no midrange. There's no -- there's no instruments or
voices. It's just low base, and I -- he is so excited
and angry I hear him over that with my window up.
Q And that didn't -- that didn't upset you at
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2959
all? You thought, well, that's okay?
A I was concerned, and that's why I put my
window down and asked him are you talking about me? I
was ready to try to de-escalate the situation because I
could see it was spiraling out of hand. Every time
this young man is speaking it's louder and louder and
more violent and more violent each -- at each step.
Q Didn't you tell the police that you couldn't
make out everything that was being said?
A That's correct. Yeah. Something, something,
cracker and something, something, white boy, I mean I
couldn't hear it all but I -- you know, I could tell he
was irate.
Q And so -- so you rolled down your window?
A I did.
Q And you asked him are you talking about me?
A I said are you talking about me?
(REPORTER'S NOTE: For easier reading
continuation of transcript in next volume.)
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2963
P R O C E E D I N G S
FEBRUARY 11, 2014
Q Did you ever question about that?
A I did, because, you know, sometimes maybe you
think it's about you and it's not, but I also didn't --
you know, I didn't want to assume but at the same time
it was an opener to try to say, hey, you know, I did
say thanks. I appreciated it, you know, again trying
to de-escalate.
Q There was nobody else in the car, was there?
A There were two others in the car.
Q No, no, in your car?
A No.
Q Okay. So you didn't think they were talking
to somebody else in the car, right?
A Well, they weren't talking to me, sir. They
were talking about somebody and that's why I asked are
you talking about me?
Q Did you think they were talking about Rhonda?
A I didn't know who they were talking about. I
assumed they were talking about me but I didn't want to
just, you know, start off with any old thing. That's
what I thought of as an opener to de-escalate.
Q Okay. So you're -- you're telling this jury
that this guy who now is escalating I think was your
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2964
word and screaming that he's going to kill you, right?
A Correct.
Q So you thought the best course of action is
to roll down your window and say, excuse me, are you
talking about me?
A Correct.
Q That's what you thought the best idea was?
A Yes. You know, nothing for nothing but, you
know, he could have been singing. I didn't want to
assume that they were talking about killing me if they
were singing.
Q The truth is, sir, when you rolled down your
window and said are you talking about me you were
challenging this 17-year-old boy?
A I don't believe so. I put the inflection on
me.
Q Uh-huh. And the truth is he took your
challenge, didn't he, and said, yeah, I am talking to
you?
A He didn't say that. He said, yeah, I'm going
to fucking kill you.
Q Well, I guess you got your answer, didn't
you? You were being disrespected by a mouthy teenager,
weren't you?
A No, I was being threatened. Threatening to
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2965
kill somebody isn't a disrespect. That is just crazy.
Q The windows in the SUV are tinted, correct?
A The front ones were. I couldn't tell you
about the rear. I never saw them up.
Q Okay. And I think you told the jury that you
couldn't even see the guy sitting next to you, right?
A I couldn't see the front passenger, no.
Q You know who that is now?
A Yes.
Q Tevin Thompson?
A Yes.
Q You knew -- you knew there was a guy in the
back seat, right?
A Yeah. There were two in the back of the car.
Q Right. And you knew there was a driver,
right?
A Yeah. I assumed the driver was in the store
but I did see a young man walk by, you know, when I
went to ask if they were talking about me.
Q Okay. That's three, right?
A Well, that would have been the fourth.
Q Well, you couldn't see Tevin Thompson, could
you?
A I could see that somebody was there and
obviously when I asked to turn the music down the music
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2966
was off and, you know, somebody there by the controls.
Q So now you could see somebody in that front
--
A I saw like a shape. I couldn't see his face
or really tell where he was facing, front or back, but
you could see like a shape.
Q All right. Well, they didn't have any lights
on in their car, did they?
A I don't believe so.
Q Okay. It was nighttime?
A Yeah.
Q Right?
A Dusk, evening.
Q And you've seen the pictures of the car now,
right?
A Yes.
Q The windows are tinted, all of them?
A Well, the rear -- the rear windows I haven't
seen up. I assume they're tinted but I haven't seen
them.
Q Dark tint, right?
A That's what I understand, the darkest legal
tint.
Q And you're telling this jury that through the
dark tint at night you were able to see Jordan Davis
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2967
bend forward and grab something?
A No, no, no. You misunderstand. The rear
windows were down.
Q Okay. So you could see --
A Both sides, so I can see light coming through
and alls I really saw of him is his shoulders lean
forward because, you know, the door -- his door is
higher than mine.
Q So you're saying that Leland Brunson's window
is down, too?
A Yes.
Q And you could see through the door that he
was bending forward?
A No. I could see over the door through the
window that his shoulders leaned forward.
Q Didn't you write in your letter that he bends
forward and picks up something with both hands?
A Right. Because of the shoulders. If he had
done this or that that would to me indicate one hand
but both shoulders.
Q Okay. So you could see looking out through
the door that he used both hands?
A Yeah, extrapolate. Further adding --
MR. GUY: Judge, I'm going to object to this
as being nonresponsive.
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2968
THE COURT: Mr. Dunn, you just need to wait
for another question, all right?
THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
BY MR. GUY:
Q And this guy who's enraged, right?
A Yeah. I mean he's just --
Q Yelling?
A -- amping up.
Q Screaming?
A You know, yelling, yes.
Q Threatening to kill you?
A Yes.
Q Now he's got a shotgun, right?
A Yep.
Q And he opens his door, right?
A Right. Now remember he -- he unlatched it.
It's only open a little bit when he hollers you're
dead, Bitch.
Q Okay. But you said he got out?
A He did after that.
Q Okay. So he did open the door?
A It's kind of like -- it's just -- like I said
it keeps getting worse.
Q He did open the door?
A Yeah. He popped it open a little and then he
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2969
opened it all the way -- well, most of the way.
Q And can you show the jury on state's 125
where the ding is in your door where this madman opened
the door?
A On the -- I don't think it hit me.
Q So the guy who's enraged who's next to you is
-- opens the door and doesn't hit your car?
A Apparently not, but if you look at the rear
of the Durango it's by the wheel well and their door
isn't -- it isn't like a sedan where their -- where
they would hit you. It's a little high.
Q And tell the jury how close the two cars
were.
A They were pretty close.
Q How close?
A I couldn't tell you feet wise but I know the
Durango was parked close to the white line separating
our two spots.
Q Well, you put that fact in your letter, too,
didn't you?
A I did.
Q Okay. And what you said in your letter was
there was a red SUV to the left that was parked too
close to the right of its space for me to exit my car.
A Correct.
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2970
Q So you couldn't open your door, right?
A I could but it would have been uncomfortable.
Q Okay. But he can open his door in a rage and
not hit your car?
A Obviously because that's what happened so,
yes.
Q And because the cars were so close if he
would have gotten out of the car there would have been
a door in between you two, right?
A There was.
Q So he would have had to close the door, step
back, close the door and then come forward, right?
A I guess, or fire over the door. I couldn't
tell you what his strategy was.
Q And so it was at that point that you grabbed
your gun, right?
A When he exited his car and hollered this
shit's going down now I had already been afraid for my
life but now the fear was imminent and I was -- I was
done. I mean this is -- this is serious and I took him
at his word. I mean he's been telling me he's going to
kill me. He told me I'm dead and now he's telling me
it's going to happen now. I'm not going to forfeit my
life to somebody.
Q And he's outside the car?
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2971
A Yes.
Q Okay. And it's at that point that you reach
over for the glove box, right?
A Yes.
Q Okay. So you have to reach for the glove
box, right?
A Yes.
Q You have to open the glove box?
A Yes.
Q You have to grab your gun?
A Yes.
Q You have to pull the gun out?
A Yes.
Q You have to take a holster off?
A Yes.
Q You have to slide -- pull the slide back,
right?
A Right, and cock it.
Q And then you have to turn, right?
A Yes.
Q And point the gun, right?
A Yes.
Q You had to put your middle finger through the
trigger guard, right, because your --
A Right. I demonstrated all this. I did it in
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2972
about two seconds.
Q Okay. And in all that time the guy who was
outside the car, threatened to kill you he didn't shoot
you?
A Well, he did not thankfully.
Q We didn't miss that, right? He didn't shoot
you, right? He didn't shoot at you?
A You know, if you listen to the video there is
some kind of pop. I don't know if that was him or
somebody else.
Q Hold on. Are you telling this jury that
Jordan Davis discharged a firearm at you?
A I have no knowledge of what he did or didn't
do.
Q You know what a shotgun sounds like, right?
A Sure, sure.
Q It's not quiet, is it?
A No, no. It's a boom. It's a distinctive
boom.
Q Okay. So we would have heard a shotgun go
off?
A You would have, and the pop I'm talking about
sounds a little weak. I'm not sure what that is.
Q But it's not a shotgun going off?
A No.
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2973
Q So you were not shot at?
A Well, I don't know. I'm just telling you
what I heard on the audio. You guys will hear it.
Q So the guy that got out wanting to kill you,
telling you he was going to kill you watched you do all
those things and didn't shoot you?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, asked and answered.
Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Did you say -- did you say on direct that you
thought he might just be out there to beat you? Didn't
you say beat me?
A I wasn't really sure what his intentions
were. You know, he's saying kill. He didn't say I'm
going to beat you up but, you know, he's enraged. I
have no idea what his intentions are, and quite frankly
I don't want to find out.
Q And how tall are you?
A I'm six feet four.
Q And how much did you weigh?
A At the time 250 plus.
Q Jordan Davis was measured at five eleven, 145
with all his clothes on. That sound about right?
A I couldn't tell you.
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2974
Q So you were worried that this guy who's a
hundred pounds less than you?
A I tell you anybody with a gun is deadly.
Q But you were worried he was going to beat you
up, right?
A Well, you know, he has -- I'm sitting in a
car and he comes at me with a metal object, I mean --
but at the time his threats and actions left no doubt
in my mind that it was a firearm. It looked like a
firearm. He was treating it like a firearm. He wasn't
saying I'm going to beat you up. He was saying I'm
going to kill you. You're dead.
Q So you said to him you're not going to kill
me, you son of a bitch?
A That's right.
Q Right? And you're telling this jury you
didn't raise your voice when you did that?
A I said that more of to myself. I mean I'm
inside the car getting my -- my pistol so I'm not
saying it to him. I'm saying -- this is a think that
I'm saying outloud.
Q Okay. Did you say it outloud?
A Yes, I did.
Q And you don't think this guy heard you?
A I hope he did.
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2975
Q You hope he did?
A Sure. That's part of any self-defense is you
want to yell and kind of like stun your attacker.
Q And when you yelled you're not going to kill
me, you son of a bitch, he still didn't fire?
A Thankfully, no.
Q In your letter you say -- the way you
described it it happened all very fast, right? You
said just a couple of seconds, right?
A From the time where he first popped his door
and said you're dead, Bitch --
Q Right.
A -- and then where he opened the door and
started getting out and said this shit's going down
now, I mean it -- maybe a couple of heartbeats in
between saying I'm dead and then getting out.
Q And in your letter didn't you say that you
were paralyzed with fear?
A I was when I asked him are you talking about
me and he said, yeah, I'm going to F-ing kill you. You
know, had he decided to shoot me through the car that
would have been the time to do it, and I was paralyzed
and I wouldn't have been able to react.
Q But somehow the paralysis just left you.
A Well, when he opened his door and came after
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2976
me and announced that this shit was going down now,
yes, it did.
Q And that's what you put in your letter, that
something happened inside of me, my paralysis left me?
A That's accurate. Again this letter wasn't
for you all. This was for my family and friends. I
had no idea that you would have access to my mail, but
I'm happy that you read this so you can understand what
I went through.
Q Because this --
A And the jury will have this. I'm happy they
do.
Q Because this is accurate, right?
A It's -- it's as accurate as I can get. This
was written in June, and it pretty much covers the
nightmare that I have.
Q And you shot from inside your car, right?
A Yes, I did.
Q But this guy didn't, right? He had to get
out of the car to shoot?
A He had a long gun so I guess maybe that's
why. I couldn't tell you about his tactics. I can
just tell you what I did.
Q And you -- when you fired you didn't fire a
warning shot, right?
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2977
A Of course not.
Q I mean you didn't fire up in the air?
A Of course not.
Q You didn't fire down at the ground?
A Why would I? This guy has made his
intentions clear.
Q So you put it right on the door?
A I have every right of self-defense, and I
took it.
Q You -- the -- the question was you aimed
right at the door?
A Yes, sir. I pointed at the direction of my
attacker.
Q And pulled the trigger, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q So you hit your target?
A You know, I was pointing towards my attacker.
I hit the door, and unfortunately he was right there
behind the door. My intention was to stop the attack,
not necessarily end a life. It just worked out that
way.
Q With two hands, right, two hands on the gun?
A Yes, sir.
Q Remember Shawn Atkins, the inmate who
testified?
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2978
A Uh-huh.
Q When he did that demonstration like this that
was accurate, right?
A That was accurate when the SUV was driving
away and I opened my door and I like took a little hop
out and did that.
Q How many -- how many hands did you use the
first time then?
A Two. I was across my body.
Q And the car started backing out, didn't it?
A It did, and as I mentioned earlier I had
tunnel vision. The red wall of the doors going by
didn't register right away and, you know, that's why
you have three additional rounds in the front
passenger. It didn't register what was going on
immediately.
Q Okay. But when you say you had tunnel
vision, you're not saying you didn't realize you were
continuing to pull the trigger?
A I really didn't. I mean this whole how many
and this and that I thought I shot three. Rhonda told
me she heard four and then we see there's six. I mean
it's just the perceptions are off.
Q Well, actually there were seven, right? You
missed one.
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2979
A Okay.
Q Are you telling this jury you blacked out
during that period?
A I didn't black out but, you know, the
adrenaline and everything that's happening kind of
affects your perception.
Q And --
A Your fear.
Q And then they -- they were out of your view,
right?
A Well, they were behind me.
Q Right. So you got out of your car?
A I opened my door.
Q Are you saying you didn't get out of your
car?
A I think I maybe took a kneel or a step away.
Q Okay. You want to look at page two of your
letter for me when you describe getting out of your
car? And I can show you where it is. It's right there
in the middle. You want me to point it to you?
A I'm finding it.
Q Says --
A Says I ran a few feet behind my car. I think
I ran a few feet from my car.
Q Okay. But you wrote --
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2980
A Sure, but --
Q -- in your statement the SUV pulled forward
and I got out of my car and ran a few feet behind my
car?
A Right, and I'm telling you I probably should
have written from my car.
Q Okay. So what was it? Because just a minute
ago you said you did a kneel down and in the letter --
A Yeah. A few feet from my car.
Q I'm sorry?
A A kneel down, you know, like got out of my
driver's seat, took a step or two and then kneeled
down.
Q And where was the red SUV then? It wasn't
behind your car then?
A No. It was driving forward but this was
where they had a line from me to the front door, so not
only was I saving my life I was saving Rhonda's from
line fire.
Q Right. You knew Rhonda was standing outside
behind you?
A I was afraid that that's where she would be.
Q She -- you were wrong though. She wasn't,
was she?
A Well, you know what? About two seconds later
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2981
she was so my fear was well-founded.
Q Well, she didn't come out until you stopped
firing, right?
A I couldn't tell you exactly when she came
out, but the time it took me to walk those two steps
and get in the car she was coming out.
Q So tell me again or tell us again why you
fired. I mean they're driving away now, right?
A Right. At that point they're driving away.
Q Right. There's no --
A When I fired there's at least one firearm and
four shooters in a car that just threatened to kill me.
Q Four shooters threatened to kill you, is that
what you just said?
A I said there's at least one firearm and at
least four shooters in a car that just threatened to
kill me.
Q Okay. How many of the other shooters had
guns?
A I don't know but there is at least one gun.
Any one of them could have used it.
Q Oh, okay. So they were going to pass it
around?
A I have no idea, sir. I'm just telling you
what I was thinking.
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2982
Q Okay. But the fact is nobody did fire back,
did they?
A No.
Q And nobody stuck a gun out the window at you,
did they?
A Yes, they did.
Q No, no. When they're pulling away?
A No, no, no, they didn't.
Q And you said that the police they asked you
about those shots, didn't they?
A Yes.
Q Yeah. And your words to the police was I
can't justify those last -- that last volley?
A Other than to say and then I got cut off.
Q Did you not tell the police I can't justify
that last volley?
A Other than to say and then I got cut off so,
yes, I did say what you said but I also continued to
say the sentence with other than to justify.
Q And I guess you're telling this jury that you
thought that they might shoot back at you, right?
A That was my fear like I said.
Q Okay. So your thought was I'll get out of my
car and get into the open?
A Well, it was to try to get out of the line of
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2983
fire.
Q Okay. But wouldn't that put you in the line
of fire because you were --
A Not necessarily because if you get behind
them they can't shoot behind them as easy as they can
beside them, and if you look at the rear bullet holes
they were from behind it.
Q Well, definitely they were.
A And I --
Q And you -- I think you said at one point you
were shooting to keep their heads down?
A Right. That's the blind fire, keep their
heads down so they would not shoot back.
Q Okay. What's blind fire?
A That's where you just shoot over blindly
without aim.
Q Okay. So you were worried that these guys
were going to kind of do one of these maybe?
A Yes, yes.
Q So you said you were going to shoot to keep
their heads down, right?
A Well, I'm shooting low but my gun climbed.
Q Well, I mean if you were shooting to keep
their heads down why did you put two in the rear of the
taillight?
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2984
A Well, you know, if you shoot even missing and
hitting the ground it's noise and maybe they would duck
and, you know, you're asking me why I didn't shoot to
kill. I was shooting to keep their heads down, not to
kill.
Q Into the taillight?
A Correct.
Q And then you put your gun back in the glove
box, right?
A I did.
Q Even though these -- I think you called them
gangsters, even though these gangsters were still out
there, right?
A Right. And my gun was ready to fire at that
time. It was fully loaded -- well, had five rounds but
there was one in the barrel.
Q But I mean you saw them pull off and go --
you thought they were on Southside Boulevard, right?
A I did.
Q And so they weren't a threat to you any more,
right?
A Correct.
Q So you were safe, right?
A Well, I didn't know if they were coming back
or if there were other -- if they had friends in the
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2985
parking lot. I was petrified.
Q Did you see any other friends in the parking
lot?
A No, but I didn't look either.
Q Okay. I mean Steve Smith he was in the
parking lot, right?
A Yeah, and I didn't see him.
Q Did you think he was one of their friends?
A No. I didn't even see him.
Q Did you think Shawn Atkins was one of their
friends?
A I didn't see any of these people. I had, you
know, the tunnel vision going on.
Q So you were imagining that there might be
another car?
A Well, you know, you hear enough news stories
and you read about these things they go through your
mind.
Q You thought everybody in the car was a thug
or a gangster, right?
A After the way they behaved, yes, I did, their
thoughts --
Q The way they behaved?
A Well, the one man in particular but his
neighbor seemed to have been in agreement right there
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2986
with him.
Q Okay. But the guy in the front seat actually
turned the music down, right?
A You're right. He was the reasonable one.
Q All right. And the driver he didn't threaten
you in any way, did he?
A You're right. He did not.
Q So the threat is gone, and you decide the
best course of action was to leave, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Even though there were lots of people around,
correct?
A Yes, sir.
Q And there was lighting around, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q And the front door to the store couldn't have
been more than what, 12 feet away from your car?
A Correct.
Q And so you thought that the best thing to do
is to flee?
A Or leave, leave the area.
Q And you did -- you did have your cell phone
with you?
A Pardon?
Q You did have your cell phone with you?
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2987
A Yeah. My cell phone was set on Google maps,
directions to the hotel but, yes, I did.
Q Okay. Doesn't take long to get that off,
does it? Don't you just push the button?
A No.
Q And you are familiar with 911, are you not?
A Yes, I am.
Q Three minutes, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q You didn't call the police, did you?
A No. No, I didn't. I --
Q You didn't call the police at the store,
right?
A I didn't call the police at all until the
following morning.
Q That didn't -- that didn't go through your
head like maybe I just shot at somebody because they
pointed a gun at me, I should call the police?
A You know, you're right. It sounds crazy and
I couldn't tell you what I was thinking when all this
happened. I could just tell you that I didn't do it,
and if you told me that if this happened to you you
wouldn't call the police I wouldn't believe you, but
that's what happened.
Q But I mean you were upset when you left the
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2988
store, right?
A I was in a panic.
Q Right. And then you got back to the hotel?
A Yes.
Q Correct?
A That's where we went, like our sanctuary.
Q And you didn't call the police at the hotel,
did you?
A Nope, same -- same logic or lack of
reasoning. It's just what we did.
Q Mr. Dunn, the reason you left the gas station
is because you knew you had shot into a car of four
unarmed teenagers?
A That's incorrect.
Q So you go back to the hotel and you go
inside?
A Yes.
Q Did you take your phone with you?
A I believe I did.
Q Did you call the police from the safety of
your hotel room?
A No. As I said I didn't call the police until
the following morning for reasons I couldn't explain
why.
Q And I think you said earlier, and I asked you
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2989
to pause, that you were -- you spent the time looking
down waiting for the red SUV to come back, is that what
you said?
A It was like a waking nightmare.
Q Hold on. Did you sit in that hotel and look
down and wait --
A In the club room, yeah.
Q And wait for the red SUV, right?
A Yeah, I mean I'm looking down at traffic and
my waking nightmare is that they would come by.
Q I mean the SUV had pulled off, right?
A Yeah. I didn't know where they went. I had
-- I didn't see it again.
Q You didn't follow the SUV?
A No.
Q They didn't follow you?
A I had no knowledge. I mean --
Q So you just thought --
A I certainly hoped that they hadn't.
Q So you just thought that somehow they were
going to find out where you parked at your hotel?
A I know it's not rational. I admit that.
That's why I said it was my waking nightmare.
Q And because you thought this car full of
gangsters was going to come back you decide to park in
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2990
the front of the hotel, right?
A I don't recall where I parked.
Q Did Ms. Rouer's testimony refresh your
recollection? She said y'all parked in the front.
A If that's where she said we may have parked
there but I didn't consciously park there.
Q And you put -- you left your gun in the glove
box, right?
A Yeah. That was Rhonda's idea because I was
going to take it and she's like, you know, just kind of
weirded out about everything so I took the time to safe
it and put it in the glove box.
Q Right. Because you knew nobody was behind
you?
A Well, I -- I didn't know anything, and like I
said the fear while we were up in the club room I agree
it was irrational but this is what we were
experiencing.
Q And when you were at the hotel room you
didn't -- you didn't call 911?
A I didn't call the police until the following
morning.
Q You called the pizza man, right?
A Yeah. I -- I think I mentioned that. I
wanted to get something for Rhonda to eat to -- to calm
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2991
her upset stomach.
Q I'm going to come back to that. You told the
police that one of the reasons you left the station was
you were in a strange town?
A Right.
Q In a strange area?
A Right.
Q Even though you lived up that very same road
for two years?
A 15 years ago. None of it was familiar.
Q After a two-year period it wasn't familiar to
you?
A Not really. I went from that apartment to
the N.A.S. and I knew from the apartment to the
highway.
Q So I mean when you lived here for two years
you didn't -- you didn't go anywhere else?
A Not really. I had a motorcycle and it was
inconvenient to drive around.
Q You didn't ever take your motorcycle for a
ride?
A No. I went from the apartment to work.
Q Isn't that why people have motorcycles, to go
for rides?
A It is but that was my only form of
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2992
transportation at the time.
Q I guess you didn't have much of a social life
then because you were just going, I guess, from your
brother-in-law's house or your brother's house to work
and straight back?
A Yep.
Q And no --
A And then on the weekends home.
Q Yeah. You didn't go anywhere else in
Jacksonville?
A Not -- not this way. We were down by N.A.S..
Q Okay. Ms. -- Ms. Rouer said you had been to
that station before. Did she get that right?
A I very well could have for fuel.
Q The reason you didn't call the police is
because you knew you had committed a crime?
A No, sir.
Q Did you know that -- that somebody had
written down your tag number?
A No.
Q Is that why you parked in the front of the
hotel because you didn't think anybody knew who did it?
A The thought hadn't -- nothing like that came
into play.
Q So you're staring down at the SUV or looking
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2993
for the SUV without your gun, right?
A Correct.
Q And you take Charlie? You take Charlie
outside?
A Backwards. We did Charlie first.
Q Right. But you took him outside, right?
A Yes.
Q Even though the gangsters might be around?
A My waking nightmare, yes.
Q Without your gun?
A Correct. I fully say that it was an
irrational fear but it was a fear.
Q And you weren't expecting Charlie to protect
you, right?
A Of course not.
Q You poured yourself a drink?
A Yeah, to calm -- calm my nerves. I poured
one for Rhonda, too.
Q Stiff drink?
A Yes.
Q Alcoholic drink?
A With rum -- rum and Coke.
Q Did that help you be stoic, I guess?
A No. It didn't help calm me down even a
little bit. We were pretty shooken (sic).
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2994
Q And then you turned on a movie?
A I don't recall. I know we were watching T.V.
out in the common room, whatever was on.
Q Right. So you -- you weren't afraid that the
gangsters were going to come up into the common area?
A You needed a key card to get in the elevators
so, no.
Q So you were in the common area?
A For a while, yeah.
Q Watching T.V.?
A Yeah, whatever was on.
Q You still haven't called the police, right?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, asked and answered.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. GUY:
Q And then -- then at 1:00 o'clock your phone
--
MS. COREY: Judge, can we approach sidebar?
THE COURT: Sure.
(Sidebar discussion without reporter present.)
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, take a
20-minute break, please.
(Jury excused for recess.)
(Lunch recess.)
THE COURT: All right. We ready to resume?
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2995
MR. GUY: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: Took a little longer than --
Mr. Dunn, come around and have a seat. Took a
little longer than scheduled because the jurors'
lunches had already been delivered and they needed
to eat, so we have now gotten that accomplished so
we're finished with the lunch break and we'll have
the rest of the afternoon. Mr. Strolla, you ready
to proceed?
MR. STROLLA: I am, yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Guy already said so. I
just hadn't asked you yet. All right. Bring the
jurors on in.
(Jury in at 1:53 p.m..)
THE COURT: All right. Thank you, ladies and
gentlemen. Y'all can have a seat. Thank you for
your patience this morning and for your indulgence
on the lunch situation. I'm sorry about the little
snafu on one of the jurors' lunches. There sure
are a lot of moving parts to this thing so we'll --
I'll try and get to the bottom of that and make
sure we don't have that occasion again. So we're
ready to resume, Mr. Guy. Go right ahead.
MR. GUY: Thank you, Judge.
BY MR. GUY:
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2996
Q You -- I think where we left off it was
somewhere in the middle of the night and you were still
very upset about what happened, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Okay. But you didn't call the police to
alleviate your concerns about the people who might be
driving around, right?
A I didn't contact law enforcement till the
next morning.
MR. GUY: Could I have that screen up?
BY MR. GUY:
Q I believe you said that the window on the
driver's side in the back was open.
A I thought it was. I saw light come through.
Q Does that refresh your recollection, state's
21?
A I see the window is up now. At the time I'm
thinking that it was down but --
Q Okay.
A It was just based on light coming through.
Q But you're not saying it was down, right?
A I wasn't on that side of the car so I
couldn't say for sure.
Q All right. But you did say that earlier
today. You said --
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2997
A I realize what I said but it was based on
ambient light coming through.
Q And you said that you don't use the phrase
thug music, do you?
A It doesn't seem to be a familiar term. If I
was going to refer to it I'd call it rap crap.
Q At 1:00 o'clock you were flipping on your
phone there and you saw that someone had been killed?
A Yes. I was actively seeking news.
Q All right. And when you got the news that
someone you had shot was dead you didn't call the
police?
A No. I went to the bathroom and threw up.
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor -- objection. Asked
and answered, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Overruled.
BY MR. GUY:
Q You did not call the police?
A No. I went to the bathroom --
THE COURT: Now it's asked and answered,
Mr. Guy.
BY MR. GUY:
Q And you -- you've been emotional today,
right?
A Yeah. For certain topics.
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2998
Q Did you -- did you cry when the news came on
that a young boy had been killed?
A I don't recall. I know I was very upset.
Q You took a shower?
A That was at 7:00 in the morning.
Q And then you left town?
A We went back home to sanctuary to contact law
enforcement, safe harbor I should say.
Q Okay. Duval -- Duval wasn't a safe harbor?
A Again if you asked me how I would react to a
situation like this I never would have guessed how we
did or what we did, so when you're questioning me
whether I contacted Duval it makes sense that I should
have. We didn't. I couldn't tell you why.
Q Are the police different in Satellite Beach
than they are in Duval County?
A Well, I had a neighbor in federal law
enforcement that was personally known to me so in that
respect, yes.
Q Okay. He's not a police officer, right?
A Federal law enforcement.
Q Okay. And he doesn't work in Jacksonville,
does he?
A No.
Q So he wouldn't have been handling your
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2999
shooting, right?
A Correct. I really wasn't worried about the
law, sir. Self-defense you can't change it into murder
so whether I waited ten hours or ten days it didn't
matter. I had other concerns at the time and that was
surrounding my fiance.
Q It didn't matter to --
A It didn't matter in the present mind that I
was in.
Q It mattered to you or who did it matter to?
A Didn't matter to me in the state of mind I
was in.
Q You had killed a 17-year-old boy and that
didn't matter to you?
A In self-defense, and whether I called the
police that night or the next morning didn't seem --
you know, it wasn't -- it wasn't going to change it
from self-defense to anything else.
Q You were concerned about Charlie, getting
Charlie?
A I was concerned about Rhonda.
Q Didn't you -- didn't you tell the Sheriff's
Office that you wanted to get Rhonda and the dog back
before the shit storm came down?
A Sure.
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Q You couldn't -- you couldn't have called one
of your family members to take your dog?
A I'm sure we could have done a lot of things,
but again --
Q All those --
A -- we didn't and it kind of describes the
state of mind we were in.
Q Okay.
A The shock.
Q Well, I'm not asking about we. I'm asking
about you.
A Well, it was both of us.
Q Okay. But I'm asking about your decisions,
not anybody else's.
A Okay.
Q So any of those people in that family picture
we saw there this week you couldn't call those people
and say --
A I could have called any number of them, but I
did not.
Q All right. And Rhonda Rouer was an adult,
right?
A Yes, she is.
Q She can take care of herself, right?
A Sure.
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3001
Q You said earlier that you never or that you
did tell Rhonda Rouer that there was a gun, that they
had a gun, is that what you said?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Do you remember writing Rhonda Rouer a
letter at that time?
A I wrote Rhonda several letters.
Q Do you remember one on Wednesday,
December 5th of 2012?
A I do not.
Q Would it refresh your memory to see it?
A Sure.
MR. GUY: Judge, if I could hand the witness
what's been marked for identification as 8-U.
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, if the state has a copy.
THE COURT: I'm sorry?
MR. STROLLA: I don't know what they're
handing him, if they have a copy.
THE COURT: Oh, for you? Okay.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Sir, would you read that first paragraph to
yourself and see if that refreshes your recollection
about whether or not you told Rhonda Rouer there was a
gun?
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3002
A I wrote here that I cannot recall if I ever
conveyed the details of my decision making to you.
Q Is that your letter?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Is it -- hadn't been altered, has it?
A I wouldn't know. I don't have an original.
Q Okay. Well, you wrote it, right?
A It appears to be.
Q Okay. Fair and accurate copy?
A Sure.
MR. GUY: Judge, can I move this in as state's
-- I think we're 202.
THE COURT: I think it is 202. Mr. Strolla?
MR. STROLLA: No objection, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. It will be received as
state's exhibit 202.
(The item last-above referred to was received
into evidence as State's Exhibit No. 202.)
BY MR. GUY:
Q I'll hand that back to you. Now you've got
202 in front of you and I ask you to turn your
attention to the front page. Did you not write in
passing -- he mentioned in passing that I had made no
mention of a gun to you.
A Right. So what's your point? Is that what
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3003
it says?
Q Is that not what it says?
A Uh-huh.
Q Okay. So you didn't tell Rhonda Rouer about
a gun?
A That's not what this says. This says
somebody else told me that she said she didn't remember
me mentioning a gun. That's a lot different from me
not mentioning a gun to her.
Q Okay. So you're going to stick with the fact
that you didn't -- that you told her about a gun?
A Pardon?
Q You're going to stick with your account that
you told her about a gun multiple times?
A Yes.
Q Okay. And to be sure you were not injured
that night, right?
A Correct.
Q Your car was not damaged?
A Not to my knowledge.
Q You pulled the trigger ten times, right?
A Yes, sir.
Q Each -- each time you pull the trigger, I
mean it's a six-and-a-quarter pound of trigger pull,
right?
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3004
A That's what I heard testified to.
Q Does that sound right?
A I don't know what -- I don't know what it
would be.
Q Well, you've had that gun at that point for
22 years?
A Sure, but I never had the trigger pull
measured.
Q All right. But it's not a hair trigger,
right?
A Correct.
Q To expel one bullet you've got to pull the
trigger one time?
A That should give you an idea how much of a
panic I was in that I was able to pull it ten times
without knowing how many times I pulled it.
Q Are you saying you did it by reflex then?
A No. I did it in sheer panic and fear for my
life.
Q While you were aiming directly into the door
of a car that was moving?
A I was aiming into a door that was stationary
and the car moved in front of me, and I didn't even
realize it was moving.
Q Well, how about when the car drove away and
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3005
you took that stance and hit it three times?
A Right. Again that wasn't just fear for my
life. That was fear for my life and Rhonda's life.
Q But that was a panic then? I mean when you
were aiming that was just a lucky shot that you hit it
three times?
A I pointed. I didn't aim. I didn't use the
sight. It was -- yes, it was panic.
Q Well, you'd have to admit then you're pretty
lucky then, right? I mean because, gosh, you're not
even aiming at a moving car and you hit it three times.
A I wouldn't call it luck.
Q What would you call it?
A It wasn't that far away. I don't know what
to tell you but, you know, like how a pistol has sights
on it, I wasn't using sights.
Q Each time you pulled the trigger it's a
conscious decision to fire, right?
A In the situation I was in I consciously
pulled the trigger once. Everything after that was
just the panic.
Q So you weren't conscious when you were
pulling the trigger the other times?
A Well, I wasn't like at a target range where
you would pull the trigger once every second and you're
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3006
paying attention to where you're aiming and all that.
That wasn't the case here. This was -- this was a
panic moment where -- you know, as I testified I had a
young man threatening to kill me multiple times,
getting out of the car saying it was going down now and
getting out with a weapon, so I was in sheer terror.
Q So when you got out of the car --
A I was still in sheer terror.
Q -- and repositioned yourself and took aim at
the car again that wasn't a conscious decision to fire?
A Yes, it was. When I pointed it at the car,
yes.
Q Each -- each of those last three times?
A Right. And as I -- as I recall it was like
to shoot once but obviously I did shoot three times so
you can imagine the -- but -- however.
Q Mr. Dunn, you said several times throughout
the course of the day that you didn't call the police
until the next morning. Are you talking about the
morning of the 24th?
A Yes, sir.
Q Who was it that you called? Can you tell me
the name of the officer?
A I don't remember his name but he was here
yesterday, and I didn't call him personally. He was
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3007
called on my behalf.
Q Okay. And is it -- is it your testimony that
you called Ken Lescallett?
A Yes.
Q Wasn't that the law enforcement officer you
were talking about?
A Well, at 8:30 in the morning I called him and
then I went and spoke with him and asked him to contact
law enforcement on my behalf.
Q Your phone number at the time was
(772) 201-1362?
A Correct, and it's the 202 phone number that I
called at 8:30.
Q Right. (202) 365-8550?
A Yeah. It's a Washington, D.C. number.
Q Okay. Would it refresh your recollection to
explain who called who, whether or not you called him
or he called you?
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor -- Judge, if I can
object, improper predicate. Can we approach?
THE COURT: Sure.
(Sidebar discussion with reporter present.)
MR. STROLLA: Judge, actually I have two
objections. One it's improper predicate. Mr. Dunn
says he doesn't recall. He actually says he does
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3008
recall. I remember the date and time and I called
a number.
Next Mr. Guy is violating the rule that you
cannot hold something in front of the jury that's
not in evidence or for use for impeachment and he
is saying would it refresh your recollection and
that's improper predicate. There was no refreshing
recollection to answer the questions.
So again I have documented, Judge, in front of
the jury Mr. Guy is right next to the jury doing it
approaching my client.
THE COURT: I think you can let Mr. Guy speak,
but the way I took all of that was he asked if
Mr. Dunn had called the police and he said he had.
My guess is -- and if I'm wrong then we'll see.
What he has there is phone records that's going to
show that that man called Mr. Dunn, not Mr. Dunn
calling that man. Am I guessing correctly?
MR. GUY: You're right on it.
THE COURT: Your objection is overruled.
MR. STROLLA: Well, Judge, I don't think it
even shows out calls.
MR. GUY: It shows the calling party and the
dialed digits.
MR. STROLLA: So who is 904 then?
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3009
MR. GUY: The calling party is the 202.
MR. STROLLA: It says dialed digits is 904 and
Mr. Dunn doesn't have a 904.
MR. GUY: I know but this is the number that
was called.
MR. STROLLA: But that's his mobile directly
and then dialed digits. I don't think it shows
what Mr. Guy is showing.
MR. GUY: He can correct me if I'm wrong.
THE COURT: He is going to show him the record
and maybe it's wrong.
MR. STROLLA: Again it's improper predicate if
he says did he call and he said yes.
THE COURT: He said do you recall calling the
man. Mr. Guy thinks he can show that the man
called him. Mr. Guy may get that stuff right back
down his throat.
MR. STROLLA: Yes, sir.
THE COURT: We will see.
(Sidebar discussion concluded.)
THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
Mr. Guy.
BY MR. GUY:
Q Mr. Lescallett is with the Department of
Agriculture?
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3010
A Yes.
Q That's what you meant by federal law
enforcement?
A He is. He's got a shield and everything.
He's 001.
Q Can I refresh your recollection with your
phone records as to whether that call -- who called
who?
A You may.
MR. GUY: Judge, if I can approach the
witness?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
BY MR. GUY:
Q I want you to look at the call -- first of
all, do those appear to be your phone records?
A Yes, that's my phone number.
Q You see the call highlighted at 8:30?
A Uh-huh.
Q Do you see the last column on the right where
it says calling party?
A Right.
Q Okay. That's Mr. Lescallett's number, right?
A Right. That's where he called me, I guess.
Q Right. So you didn't call him?
A Well, what's the 904 number?
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3011
Q I just asked you about the number on the
right, the calling party. Does that refresh your
memory as to who called who?
A Oh, calling party, got you. Yes, sir.
Q So it was Mr. Lescallett who called you at
8:30 on the morning of the 24th?
A Apparently so.
Q And you did not talk about the fact that you
had -- you didn't mention to him that you had a problem
in Jacksonville that you needed to talk to him about?
A I spoke to him at 8:30 in the morning. My
apologies. I thought I called him but I spoke to him
to inquire whether or not he was going to be at home
because I had an important matter to speak with him,
and I did not get into detail about what it was about
or where it happened.
Q Isn't it true that he called you to see if
you and Rhonda Rouer could go out that night?
A I think there was something in the afternoon.
Q And you told him that the answer was, no,
Rhonda Rouer wasn't feeling well?
A I don't recall that aspect of the
conversation.
Q You never said anything to Mr. Lescallett
about wanting to talk to him about something?
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3012
A Yes, I did. I asked if he was going to be
home and I had something important to talk to him
about.
MR. GUY: Judge, that's all I have. Thank
you.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, could I have just one
moment, please?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
MR. STROLLA: Thank you, Your Honor.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Very briefly, Mr. Dunn, are you a custodian
of records for that call log?
A No, I'm not.
Q Did it appear there were other phone numbers
that Mr. Guy was showing you that isn't your number?
A Yes.
Q Okay. Is it possible the calling party is
the party that you actually called?
MR. GUY: I'm going to object to that as
calling for speculation.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Again do you know how to read that call log?
A No.
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3013
Q Okay. Do you work for the phone company?
A No.
Q Do you even have a 904 number?
A No.
Q Is there a 904 number on that where Mr. Guy
refreshed your recollection?
A Yes, there was.
Q Do you even know where that number came from?
A No.
Q Can you look at the top of the page and tell
me what it says over that 904?
A I don't have it any more.
MR. STROLLA: Mr. Guy. Judge, if I can
approach Mr. Dunn?
THE COURT: Yes, sir.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Can you look at that 904 and tell me what it
says at the top of that page?
A Dialed digit.
Q Did you dial a 904 number?
A Not at 8:30 in the morning.
Q Right. Did you have a 904 cell phone?
A No, not at the time.
Q Do you have any knowledge of why this record
was created with the words on it that says calling,
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3014
any -- do you have any knowledge of how this was
created or why?
A No.
Q Do you know who created it?
A No.
MR. STROLLA: Judge, again if I could just
have a brief moment? I apologize.
THE COURT: Sure. Mr. Guy, I think your mic
is still on.
MR. GUY: Thank you, Judge.
THE COURT: You're welcome.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Now, Mr. Dunn, when Mr. Guy talks about that
common area, you kept saying common area in your hotel,
do you remember that?
A Yes, I do.
Q Could you explain to the jury where that
common area is in the hotel?
A It's on the top floor right as you exit the
elevators. It's like the entrance to the hallway has a
couch and a seating area.
Q Where was your room located?
A Right down the hall.
Q And is that on a secure floor where you can't
get to without having a passkey to get in?
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3015
A Yes, it was.
Q Do you recall Mr. Guy saying that Rhonda is a
grown woman and can take care of herself?
A I remember.
Q Was she in a condition that night to take
care of herself?
A Not at all.
Q Was she in a condition the next day to take
care of herself?
A Not at all.
Q Was she in a condition worse off than we saw
her testify the other day?
A Very much so.
Q Now Mr. Guy also said again that you were
trying to be stoic for Rhonda. Do you recall those
questions?
A I do.
Q Okay. Were you as calm as you are today?
A No.
Q Were you calm as you are sitting at the table
next to me?
A No.
Q Were you as calm as when you were sitting at
your son's wedding table?
A No.
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3016
Q Were you as calm -- let me rephrase that.
What was your mental state that day, the next morning?
A I was -- it was like an out-of-body
experience trying to process what happened. You know,
we were -- we were upset when it was just the shooting
and now that we found out there was a fatality we were
just crazy with grief.
Q Let me ask you this: When you testified
earlier, too, when you found out you went in the
bathroom and threw up, is that correct?
A Yes.
Q Did you have any type of stomach issues,
diarrhea, anything like that?
A Yes, I did.
Q And was that through the evening all the way
through 5:00 o'clock in the morning?
A Yes, it was.
Q Is that part of the reasons why when you did
get up you needed to shower?
A Yes, it was.
Q Mr. Guy also talked about this three-page
letter that you wrote.
A Uh-huh. Yes.
Q Could you please tell the jury why you wrote
that letter?
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3017
A I wanted to reassure Rhonda. I mean if she
was questioning things I wanted to set her mind at
ease.
Q And you also remember writing the letter that
was dictated where your brother typed it out and
Mr. Guy questioned you on that?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. What was the purpose of sending that
letter out to your family?
A That was so they would know the truth and get
beyond all the media nonsense that they were putting
out.
Q And do you know if that letter was then
spread out to your family and friends so they knew what
happened?
A Yes, it was. In fact, it was published on
justice for Dunn dot com.
Q Now Mr. Guy kept talking about this
hour-and-a-half, two hours with law enforcement that
day with the Jacksonville homicide detectives. You
ever been questioned by police for murder?
A Never.
Q You ever been accused of murder?
MR. GUY: Objection, Your Honor, improper.
THE COURT: Sustained.
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3018
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Let me ask you this: Are you trained in any
type of interrogation or debate?
A No.
Q Do you recall Detective Musser as Mr. Guy
read from your statement about the video? Do you
recall Mr. Guy asking you statements about the video?
A Yes.
Q Do you remember him going back and forth
about what detectives said to you and what you said?
A Yes, I do.
Q Did Detective Musser tell you that people in
Jacksonville will get killed for asking to lower the
radio?
A Actually he said people in Jacksonville kill
you if you ask them to turn the radio down.
Q And Detective Oliver tell you, hey, if we
found a shotgun that would be different?
A Yes, he did.
Q Did he tell you if we found a BB gun that
would be different?
A Yes, he did.
Q Did he tell you if we found any gun that
would be different?
A Yes, he did.
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3019
Q Did he even tell you if we found a water gun
that was painted black that would be different?
A Yes, he did.
Q Were you under the assumption that they
actually searched the plaza for a gun?
A I was.
Q Were you under the assumption that they
actually searched the bushes for a gun?
A I was.
Q Were you actually under the assumption that
they checked dumpsters that night for a gun?
A I was.
Q Did they ever convey to you in your
interrogation that nothing was ever checked in the area
when they told you we never found a gun?
A They did not.
Q And that's when they start asking you about
is it possible it was something else?
MR. GUY: Judge, objection, leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Do you recall them making a comment about
possibilities of other weapons?
A Yes. They said it was impossible.
Q And when did they make that comment about is
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3020
it possible it was something else?
A When I told them I saw a weapon.
Q Now Mr. Guy also talked about it was four
teenage boys and the weight and size of Jordan Davis.
Did you find out the other day he's almost six feet
tall?
A I did.
Q Was he fully dressed?
A He was.
Q Did he speak to you like a child?
A He did not.
Q Did he act like a child?
A He did not.
Q Did he threaten your life like a child?
A No, he did not. He threatened my life like a
man.
Q And how many men were in that car when your
life was threatened?
A Four.
Q How many were with you?
A Nobody, just me.
Q Do you have any training in boxing?
A I do not.
Q Do you have any training in MMA fighting or
self-defense?
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3021
A No, I do not.
Q Are you a bodybuilder?
A No.
Q Do you even weight-lift?
A No.
Q So even with your size it would have been
four on one?
A That's correct.
Q Now Mr. Guy also talked about did you fire a
warning shot. Do you recall that?
A I do.
Q When you fired the gun, did you believe a
warning shot was going to make him go away?
A I did not.
Q And Mr. Guy said he didn't pull the trigger
and you didn't get shot. Do you recall those
questions?
A I do.
Q Were you going to wait to see if he was going
to pull the trigger?
A No. I was convinced he was going to. I
wasn't going to wait for him to do it.
Q And with your experience a shotgun has a much
broader net of pellets than a single bullet?
A Yes. Shotgun is devastating.
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3022
Q And did you hear their forensic expert,
Ms. Pagan, testify that the minimum amount of pellets
is nine in a shotgun shell?
A That's correct.
Q So one shotgun shell to one bullet would be
nine against one?
A I agree with that.
Q Now, Mr. Dunn, you have a concealed weapons
permit?
A Yes, I do.
Q How long have you had a concealed permit
approximately?
A About five years.
MR. GUY: Judge, I'm going to object to this
as beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Well, that was asked and answered.
Go ahead, Mr. Strolla.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Even with your concealed weapons permit you
could have had that gun next to your leg --
MR. GUY: Same objection, beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Sustained.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q How many steps away was that secured firearm?
A I believe it was three steps.
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Q And is that based on what you were trained
in?
A That and, you know, just being safe.
Q And do you have the permit to allow you to
keep it one step away?
A I do.
Q Are you aware that firing a warning shot is
illegal in Florida?
A I am.
MR. GUY: Objection as to relevance, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. STROLLA: Your Honor, if I may just
briefly?
THE COURT: Sure.
MR. STROLLA: We don't have to do a speaking
objection. I would just ask that it would open the
door by cross. Yes, Your Honor.
THE COURT: Let's come around to sidebar.
(Sidebar discussion with reporter present.)
THE COURT: So the question was are you
aware --
MR. STROLLA: Are you aware if it's illegal to
fire a warning shot in Florida?
THE COURT: That it is or if it is?
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MR. STROLLA: If it is, and he said, yes, it
is. The only reason I asked is because Mr. Guy
said did you fire a warning shot? My concern they
are going to argue in closing he could have done a
number of things and he didn't have to shoot at
Mr. Davis, and I didn't want the jury to believe
that he could fire a warning shot. I believe the
state's prosecuting for the same issue right now,
this office.
THE COURT: I understand that. The only
problem is the way you phrased it. I don't know if
he knows what the law really is.
MR. STROLLA: Well, he did indicate his answer
was in the affirmative, he did believe it was
illegal so I think I can end it with that, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Okay. Mr. Guy, what were you
going to say?
MR. GUY: Well, if he's not going to ask any
more.
MR. STROLLA: I can leave it at that, Your
Honor.
THE COURT: Okay.
MR. STROLLA: He just objected, and that's
why.
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THE COURT: Okay.
(Sidebar discussion concluded.)
THE COURT: Go ahead.
MR. STROLLA: Thank you, Your Honor.
BY MR. STROLLA:
Q Mr. Dunn, do you remember the questions
Mr. Guy asked you about why you didn't call 911, why
didn't you do this, why didn't you do that? Do you
recall those questions?
A Yes, I do.
Q Okay. You started saying looking back on it
it's irrational, correct?
A I did.
Q Were you in a rational state of mind that
evening?
A No.
Q Were you in a rational state of mind when you
found out Mr. Davis was dead?
A No. I was not.
Q Were you in a rational state of mind talking
to law enforcement the next day?
A No, not really.
Q Were you in a rational state of mind when the
police charged you with murder?
A No. I was not.
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MR. STROLLA: Nothing further, Your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dunn, you can
resume your seat.
(Witness excused.)
MR. STROLLA: I'm sorry, Judge?
THE COURT: He can resume his seat. Do you
have any other witnesses?
MR. STROLLA: No, Your Honor, we would rest.
THE COURT: All right. Go ahead, Mr. Dunn.
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, the defense has
now rested their case. I need to take a moment or
two and talk to the lawyers outside of your
presence, so if you'll give me 15 minutes I hope we
can resume and we'll see where we're going, all
right? So if you'll just step in the jury room for
about 15 minutes. Please don't talk about the case
among yourselves or let anybody talk about the case
in your presence.
(Jury excused for recess.)
THE COURT: The jurors are outside the
courtroom. For the record I let Mr. Dunn get off
the stand and walk back to his seat because you,
Mr. Strolla, asked him to get up and walk up and
down in front of the jurors. Close that door,
please. Because you asked him to get up and down