PSA Tammy Morgan OPR 09-029

Holstine: This is Sergeant Paul Holstine of the Bullhead City Police Department

Office of Professional Responsibility. Present with me is Tammy Morgan

and you are Tammy Morgan are you not?

Morgan: Yes.

H: And we’re at the Office of Professional Responsibility at 8:34 a.m. on the

29th of September, 2009 to interview for OPR number 09-029. Tammy

here’s a duplicate copy of the Notice of Administrative Investigation that I

sent you. Have you uh reviewed your notice and are you familiar with the

allegation and the contents of the notice?

M: Yes .

H: Okay and do you understand your specific rights and responsibilities in

this investigation?

M: I read what they said, do I understand them, well no, not really but.

(Laughter in voice).

H: What part do you un, what part do you not understand?

M: I’ve never done this before so I don’t know really what this is. (Laughter).

H: Do you, do you need to review your rights and responsibilities, uh?

M: Yeah just kinda just, I don’t know, yeah, no I’m (laughter).

H: Okay you’re being compelled by a Bullhead City Police Department

Supervisor to truthfully answer questions relating to your duties or

conduct. You can be disciplined up to and including dismissal for refusal

to answer these questions. Do you, is that clear?

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M: Yeah that’s clear.

H: Okay, questions, test or examinations will be specifically related to your

performance or fitness for duty. Clear?

M: Clear.

H: Any such statements, test or examination results can be used against you

in a disciplinary/Administrative/civil proceeding but will not be used

against you in a criminal proceeding. Clear?

M: Clear.

H: Voluntary statements, confessions or untruthful statements by you about

conduct unrelated to this investigation may be admissible in any

subsequent criminal action. Clear?

M: Clear.

H: Any false, deception or misleading statements you made, you make may

lead to additional discipline up to and including dismissal as well as

possible suspension or revocation of your Arizona Post Peace Officer

Certification.

M: Which I don’t have, sure, okay.

H: Okay so uh is all that clear?

M: Yeah, I, I just, I didn’t read it.

H: Alright do, uh alright so based on what I just read you, do you un,

understand your specific rights and responsibilities?

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M: Yes .

H: In this investigation?

M: Yes .

H: Do you have any questions about your specific rights and responsibilities

in this investigation?

M: No.

H: Okay, alright then sign there to acknowledge that. (Pause) and as you

have no doubt (pen clicking) discovered (pause) this uh complaint was

based on uh hearsay from um Officer Jamie Crawford who was

concerned about some of the things she says that you told her and that’s

what generated this complaint. In other words if the thing, if, if what she

says is true and what you told her is true etcetera, etcetera then there

would be misconduct involved in that so the first thing we need to, to get

into is, uh, I’ve got a long memo from her which is summarized (some

kind of interference) and condensed in this uh, uh the allegation section of

the notice and we’ll just go through that point by point and discuss um

what it is, you know, the differences between what you told her and what

she perceived if there are such differences and if these things are true,

how uh, whether, uh whether we need to investigate them or not, whether

they’re, whether they’re misconduct or not if true. And (sounds like pen

clicking) lets see, okay so, the first (pause) point in this memo which if it

were true would amount to misconduct and that’s how I boiled this down,

as I went through and triaged it and went, okay, there’s a lot of stuff in

here. Obviously its no, its not news to me or you that you’re going

through a tough time personally but there are certain things that the

Department is and is not interested in. Ah and is or is not able to take

any action on as far as what somebody does in their personal life.

M: That’s fine.

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H: So the first point area is uh according to Jamie Crawford she received

information from you indicating “that while Marion Morgan was working for

Sergeant Best, Marion was asked about a relationship with Lori Battey

and Marion lied to Sergeant Best about it.” Um first of all did you have a

discussion about that subject at all with uh Jamie Crawford?

M: Yes .

H: Okay and is that an accurate depiction of what you told her about it?

M: Well actually it all came about when she showed me the memo that she

gave to, I guess Sergeant Gillman.

H: Okay the memo about her hearing rumors about Marion’s relationship

through a school child or something like that?

M: Yeah.

H: Yeah, right so, um,

M: So that memo when she brought that to me and I read it and she said that

“she confronted Marion and he had lied to her” and I asked her if she

knew about him being asked by Sergeant Best about the relationship and

she said “no she didn’t know anything about it.” And so, yeah I said “he

lied.”

H: What did you say to her?

M: I said “he lied.”

H: Uh you said he lied to Sergeant Best?

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M: I said that uh okay (laughter in voice) Sergeant Best and Sergeant

Messina told me which I didn’t even know that he, they had asked him, at

least Sergeant Best and Otero had asked him if there was a relationship

with him and Battey and he said “no.” Captain Moss told me something

that was asked in a different way but at the time when I talked to (pause)

Crawford it was that he was asked, “Did you have, are you having an

affair?” So that’s when I said “yeah he lied, that was a lie.”

H: Okay so what were, what, tell me about the conversations that you had

with Sergeant Best and, and how they apply to this uh whether or not he,

he lied to Sergeant Best about his relationship.

M: Because um me and Sergeant Messina were talking and he was asking

how I was doing, how were people treating me, what’s going on and then

um we were discussing about um I guess Marion moving from his shift

and Sergeant Messina made a comment that um “well, you know, Marion

was asked if he was having an affair with Battey or if there was a

relationship with Battey” and I said “what, (Laughter) well what are you

talking about?” And he goes “well yeah, Sergeant Best had asked him”

so when Best came in I said “well what’s all this I’m hearing?” And he

goes “well during the time um there were rumors that an Officer was

having an affair with a Dispatcher and so we asked him because the shift

was having complaints about what was going on and saying that they

were getting all kinds of calls and he doesn’t seem to be getting them so

um they were concerned with his um work and had asked him that

question and that he said “no.”

H: He said no to what?

M: He said “no that there wasn’t a relationship with him and Battey.”

H: Okay so did you take that to mean that he had been untruthful with uh

Sergeant Best and/or whoever else asked him about that?

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M: Right.

H: Did Sergeant Best ever tell you that he; his opinion was that Marion had

been untruthful with him?

M: Well Sergeant Best said “he doesn’t know because he doesn’t have facts.

He doesn’t have evidence” and I told him, (laughter in voice) I said

“Sergeant I have uh e-mail that will show that he lied.”

H: Okay.

M: And

H: And do I have a copy of that e-mail?

M: I don’t think you have anything that’s why I said if you need me to bring

stuff. (Papers shuffling) where did you get all that? Oh, yeah, were did

you get all that (laughter in voice). I know the card and yeah, that’s

Battey, yeah the card and the e-mail I gave to Crawford.

H: Okay, alright, why did you give those to Crawford?

M: Because she said that um “he had lied” and I said “yeah he had lied” and

she said “because Sergeant Best is saying that you know there wasn’t,

there’s nothing you can really do anymore because he’s not on his shift”

so she wanted them so I gave them to her.

H: Is, so was Jamie conducting some sort of an investigation on Marion?

M: No.

H: At that time?

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M: Not that I was aware, we were just, we were talking about that, I said “he

lied. I believe that if you lie you need to be at least, you know, slapped on

the wrist and move on.” And it’s like

H: Who did you say that to?

M: Jamie, I said that to Jamie, I said that to Sergeant, I said that to the

Lieutenant.

H: Okay which Lieutenant?

M: Sessions.

H: Okay, so the summary of this is, is your belief that he was untruthful with

Sergeant Best and/or whoever asked him about this?

M: Sergeant Best and Otero.

H: And Otero and do, was he, do you have information that he was untruthful

to Sergeant Messina or is Messina just repeating other people’s

information?

M: I, I don’t believe he was asked by Messina but I don’t know, I mean it

didn’t go into that, it just went into where he was confronted with when our

whole shift was going through a bunch of garbage and I guess it all had to

do with Marion (laughter) that I didn’t know about.

H: Okay.

M: (Sigh)

H: So before we move on to this, move on past this; let me see if I got this

straight. (Pause) you got information from Jamie Crawford about uh

Marion that came through a school child or something.

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M: It was Lori Battey’s niece.

H: Yeah and you also received information from Sergeant Best?

M: Right.

H: Indicating that Marion was or was possibly untruthful to Best?

M: Right.

H: Okay (pause) about a relationship with Lori Battey?

M: Right.

H: And that Best had asked him about it?

M: Right.

H: You said Corporal Otero, was Corporal Otero part of this asking him

about it?

M: Yes .

H: Okay (pause) and its, and you did tell Jamie Crawford these things

correct?

M: I don’t know if I told her Otero was in there I just told her that Sergeant

Best had asked Marion about it and um he pretty much told him there was

no relationship with him and Battey.

H: Okay then let’s get down the road further. And that and that e-mail there,

just so we’re clear, you gave that or a copy of that to Jamie Crawford?

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M: Yes .

H: And that indicates that this is Marion’s e-mail address?

M: That is his e-mail address.

H: You can confirm that and this e-mail address is whose?

M: Which, oh, that’s Lori Battey’s.

H: And how would you know that?

M: Because I was able to pull up um actually what’s behind that, that should

be her other um e-mail she sent him and it has her name on it.

H: Uh, (papers shuffling) I see, yeah.

M: And see I didn’t know, I didn’t know, (laughter) at the time of the affair that

I found out about the affair it wasn’t hers it was somebody else’s.

H: Who else had, lets see, and this card here.

M: That card I just found recently.

H: Is this the card, I think according to (papers shuffling) Jamie’s memo or,

or in, some information I received this was left behind at your house when

M: Marion was cleaning out the garage and left that sitting on the work bench

and, and I believe he left it for me to find, I don’t know why he would do

that but (laughter) it just appeared on the work bench.

H: Okay and who do you believe this is from?

M: Well it says “from Lori.”

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H: Right and is that the way uh Lori spells her name, L O R I?

M: I don’t know, I don’t (laughter in voice)

H: Well let’s check this e-mail again. (Pause, papers shuffling) would there

be any other Lori that you’re aware of that that card could be from?

M: No he has other names but Lori is not one of them.

H: Okay (sigh, pause) so who else would you have discussed this, lets call it,

the truthfulness issue, who else did you discuss this truthfulness issue

with?

M: Captain Moss.

H: And you were told?

M: I was told he was asked (pause) in a round about way “if his relationship

with Lori was giving him benefits on duty.”

H: Okay so in other words (pause) if I have this right, if I interpret what you

just told me right, that question wasn’t a direct question about whether or

not there existed a relationship?

M: Yeah according to Captain Moss.

H: Okay, who else did you discuss it with? I understand that you’ve, its been

my understanding that, that as this crisis has developed and evolved that

you’ve discussed uh one or more of these issues that we’re gonna talk

about with various people including Lieutenant Sessions?

M: Lieutenant Sessions, he’s

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H: Um and is this one of the ones that you discussed with Lieutenant

Sessions?

M: Everything in there I’ve discussed with Lieutenant Sessions.

H: Okay and what information did you receive from Lieutenant Sessions

about that particular issue if any?

M: Um about the lying?

H: Yes.

M: Um (pause)

H: Were you told anything different than what the Captain told you?

M: (Pause) you know um I really, I don’t remember about what Sessions said

about it because at the time, I mean I was telling him multiple stuff about

you know, things that were going on that were a little more pertinent in

our life

H: Uh huh.

M: than what was going on at the job.

H: Okay, alright and I don’t want to dig into that if its not job related uh and,

and uh

M: Well it’s gonna be asked in some of these questions.

H: Sure, we’ll, we’ll, I want to try and

M: Ok ay.

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H: move through this.

M: As far as Lieutenant Sessions and him lying I don’t recall the conversation

in regards to that, that’s

H: Well if it would have been something different than what you were told by

Captain Moss would that have stuck in your mind?

M: Well, yeah I don’t, I don’t even know if we went deep even into that area.

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H: Okay well if, if we don’t get to that other one then prompt me in a, in a few

minutes here but I think we’ve covered this one. And the next one is

“Marion has refused to pay any bills.”

M: Right.

H: Would you have given Jamie any information to that affect?

M: Yeah.

H: Okay.

M: I’ve told everybody that.

H: Alright and what, regarding refusal to pay bills, get me up to speed here,

you guys are no longer living under the same roof correct?

M: (No audible response)

H: You are separated, pending divorce, yes or no?

M: Right.

H: And uh you gave, did you indicate to Jamie that his refusal to pay bills

would have been in violation of the Departments General Orders?

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M: No that was her statement.

H: That was her statement and we do have General Orders that, that uh talk

about financial responsibilities.

M: And I don’t know about them.

H: Yeah and they are um not, I’ve never, I’ve never been involved in a case

where that policy was something that was an issue or even enforceable,

everybody has money problems and everybody has ups and downs is the

bottom line.

M: Uh huh.

H: You know uh don’t torch your car and turn it in for a, a, a

M: Right.

H: insurance pay off because chances are you’ll probably

M: Get fired.

H: won’t have, won’t have that issue but um (sigh) do you think that his

refusal to pay bills is, is a, well first of all, did, did you take that to anyone,

Lieutenant Sessions, the Captain, the Sergeant?

M: Everybody.

H: Everybody and who is everybody?

M: Captain Moss, Lieutenant Sessions um Sergeant Best.

H: Okay and you received what sort of feed back from them individually?

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M: Nothing, I mean, Captain Moss pretty much just said “try and keep your

ut, utility bills up” and that um he asked you know “do you have an

attorney” and I said “yeah”, and I said, “His attorney told him not to pay

me anything.”

H: Does he have Fred Kearns perhaps?

M: Yes .

H: Yeah, um

M: So I’ve had two paychecks with nothing at all. The last paycheck or the

one I finally got something was $150.00 so

H: (Sigh) now you guys have a child together?

M: Yes .

H: And have you, has there been any um

M: Court orders for

H: any court orders, any judge’s instructions about who’s to pay what uh to

whom?

M: No, we’re supposed to go October 6th because I requested an emergency

hearing because again Marion’s not helping pay anything um he made a

verbal agreement and has um (laugher in voice) not abided by it so its

caused a lot of problems.

H: Okay and that, I think that touches on something that I didn’t put in the, in

the notice here but there was, there’s mention in here of violating a court

order.

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M: That’s wrong, she got that wrong.

H: Okay and that, did that have to do with custody?

M: Yes .

H: And what did you say to her ref, reference that?

M: I said “that he violated our verbal agreement and kept Brandon over night

when he was supposed to return him and he’s been doing it ever since.”

H: Is that something that you have also addressed with the Lieutenant?

M: Yes .

H: Okay and you received what feed back from the Lieutenant?

M: Well that’s, that’s, because we all know, you know, that’s just so, you

have no court order anybody can do whatever they want.

H: Right, you’re both parents of the child?

M: Right.

H: You both still married?

M: Right.

H: There’s no court order

M: Right.

H: tell, instructing you to handle things one way or the other right?

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M: Right.

H: So you think, it, what is your opinion about uh this and let me make sure

that I’m not misquoting Jamie here because I didn’t put it in the notice and

it may have been an oversight on my part or I might have uh discovered it

was already sufficiently explained. I’m gonna, I’m gonna look through this

memo here a minute. (Pause, papers shuffling) okay, yes it states in here

“Tammy went on to tell us that she had reported that Marion had

threatened her” and I think that’s in here as well uh but in the same

paragraph it says “Tammy stated that Marion repeatedly violates their

court order custody agreement and nothing is done.” Um did you make

any statements to her indicating that there was a court ordered

agreement for custody?

M: No.

H: Okay do, do you think it’s possible that she has misinterpreted what you

did tell her?

M: Yes .

H: Or you think she’s outright lying about this?

M: Um

H: And what do, what do you

M: Well like I said our, our conversation wasn’t you know where we were

discussing this because there’s plans of doing something, it was just a

conversation of

H: You were venting your frustrations?

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M: Nightmares of marital woes and so I don’t, you know, she didn’t have a

pad and paper out and she wasn’t taking notes and she wasn’t really

asking questions, she was just, you know listening to me.

H: Okay so do you, what’s your interpretation of her uh, miss, misinterpreting

this I mean

M: Well it’s wrong and I don’t know if she just wrote it down thinking that I

was meaning a violation but like I said you know I, I told her that he

violated our verbal agreement which, you know

H: Okay.

M: I don’t know

H: Alright (sigh) so that’s covered. “Marion has threatened you”, there, I’m

quoting Jamie’s mem, memo, “Marion had threatened her uh and it was

her word against his and nothing further was done.”

M: And that’s wrong.

H: What is, it, that’s wrong and you’re saying Jamie didn’t get right what you

told her?

M: Right.

H: What did you tell her of, that would be anything like that in nature?

M: I told her that um “Marion’s made verbal threats to me and some (pause,

whispering) how did it go, (pause) Marion made verbal threats to me but I

mean it didn’t go anywhere and the reason was, was I wasn’t asking for it,

I was talking to Sessions but she doesn’t know that, does that make

sense?

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H: Yeah, the reason it didn’t go anywhere was that you weren’t requesting

that any action be taken on it,

M: No.

H: is that what you’re saying?

M: I was talking to Lieutenant Sessions keeping him up to date telling him

that things at home are getting really bad.

H: Uh huh.

M: And that I’m to a point I’m gonna have to go to court, I don’t want to go to

court and get his gun taken away. I don’t want to lose my job.

H: What sort of threats were being made?

M: Well Marion, when Marion gets mad he starts making threats that he’s

gonna make our life ugly or you know, life at home in general ugly and he

started making threats that he’s gonna stop paying all the bills and let the

house and the truck go back which is what he’s doing and um then

started harassing me by turning off things, my cell phone, turning off our

internet. He didn’t turn off the utilities but he just, other stuff and so

H: He turned off your cell phone and is that something that was in his name,

your name or both?

M: It was in his name, my name was on it but he was in charge of it.

H: Uh huh.

M: The truck is in his name, he’s responsible for it, the house in Kingman is

in his name, my names on it. The only, the only thing that is in both our

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name is the house in Bullhead and I can’t contact people and deal with it

because he’s sole proprietor over it.

H: Over which?

M: Over the bills and stuff so they won’t talk to me.

H: Right. So you said that he has turned off your internet and your cell

phone?

M: He turned off my cell phone, he turned off the internet, he um separated

our bank accounts. He cancelled our bank account which now we’ve got

checks bouncing. He, he was going around doing some crazy stuff and

on his own.

H: What do you mean by crazy stuff?

M: Well to me that, you know, why are you doing this stuff, there, there’s

H: No, no what crazy stuff is,

M: Well turning

H: what is crazy stuff?

M: Well turning the internet off, turning the cell phone off, threatening to, you

know destroy us financially I mean there’s no reason for any of that.

H: Okay so the threats would have all been about, let’s say, non-violent

acts?

M: Right.

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H: But never the less uh damaging and damaging acts that, just of a non-

violent nature?

M: That, exactly other than the one when McNally was there and Marion was

gathering his things and McNally was talking to me inside the house and

as Marion walked out the door he turned around and said “either you’re

gonna be next or you’re gonna get yours.”

H: And

M: And I don’t know what that meant unless by him not paying bills is my

payback for it, I don’t know.

H: Okay, did

M: McNally (both speaking inaudible)

H: Is that something that McNally would have heard?

M: No because he did it under his breath when he was walking out the door

and McNally was like um from, this is the front door and to maybe back to

your cabinet there is where we were standing.

H: And that’s how far McNally was from you?

M: Yeah his back was to Marion.

H: And this is something muttered uh whispered?

M: He just, he mouthed it to me.

H: Lip sync it or?

M: Well no I could hear a little bit but I knew what he said.

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H: Okay but you think it’s reasonable that McNally didn’t hear it is that right?

M: I know for a fact he didn’t hear it.

H: Okay.

M: He didn’t acknowledge it in any ways and I didn’t say anything to him.

H: Okay and did you, was this brought up to the Lieutenant?

M: Yes .

H: It was, and it was brought up to Jamie as well?

M: Yes .

H: Did uh, okay, okay Marion has refused to pay any bills; I think we’ve

covered that, not in any detailed fashion but I think you’ve given me the

picture. (Pause) um did you give Jamie information indicating that e-

mails that you have hit towards Marion meeting up with his girlfriend

during work hours?

M: I said “they possibly may, I haven’t investigated them because there’s so

much going on and I’m just, I”

H: Now is that, is that, is that something that’s been addressed through your

chain of command?

M: I told Lieutenant Sessions about the e-mails, he looked at the e-mails and

at least looked to see if he got any calls to, to her residence, he didn’t

have any calls but as far as taking the e-mails and because there’s some

dates and times, “I’ll meet you here, you know I’ll be off at this time” and

you know, I haven’t even looked into that.

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H: Who, but you’re indicating that Lieut, Lieutenant Sessions has looked into

it or has possession of these e-mails?

M: No he doesn’t have the e-mails, alls he did was take her name and see if

um Marion had any calls to her residence and we didn’t get any of that.

H: Okay. (Pause) calls as in, sent there by Dispatch calls,

M: Right.

H: We’re not talking about checking phone records are we?

M: Do what?

H: We’re not talking about checking phone records are we?

M: Uh no,

H: Okay.

M: No, no, no the Dispatch calls.

H: Okay, okay that’s everything in the notice, I’m gonna go all the way

through this memo again and just to double check and make sure that

we’ve covered everything again because uh there was a triaging process

that goes on when I get one of these you know. This is like a shot gun,

uh this is like a, a multifaceted complaint and I want to make sure that we

uh address everything that would need to be addressed, so give me a

little time here.

M:

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M: And you know what? There was a comment about the threats; I did tell

her that I did bring it to Lieutenant Sessions attention

H: Uh huh.

M: and she said “and he didn’t do any thing” and I said “no” and that’s when

she said “you know that there are um that that was wrong and there are

things that you can do about it” but like I said I didn’t, I wasn’t going in

depth with her and explaining anything and, about what I was doing with

Lieutenant, Lieutenant Sessions so I don’t even know if I remember telling

her that.

H: (Pause) did you ever discuss with anyone whether or not Marion was

getting some sort of favorable call assignments through Lori Battey?

M: Well that was the discussion with Sergeant Best, that’s why he, he asked

him about the relationship with them because that’s what he believed.

H: Right and did you receive any information about what was found

regarding that subject whether there were calls, whether you know Marion

was getting the sweet calls, the easy calls, less calls,

M: No calls.

H: did you ever get any information about what was discovered?

M: No.

H: Okay.

M: Not until after I talked with um Crawford and then Captain came in and

said “you know this is what we found out, this is what’s going on and”

(cleared throat).

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H: (Pause) I want to read a paragraph to you and, and (pause) see if its, if

you think it’s accurate or relatively accurate or inaccurate. “Sergeant Best

arrived and read the memo I had turned in” and I think that’s the memo

that we’re talking about, about information received from a student. Are

you familiar with this where Jamie Crawford, have you seen that memo?

M: Yeah.

H: Okay and that’s it, that’s where Jamie Crawford, uh received information

from Lori Battey’s niece or nephew?

M: Right.

H: At school, okay, so we’re referring to that now and I’m reading a

paragraph out of Jamie’s memo dated uh (pause) not dated. (Papers

shuffling) why do people not date their memos.

M: (Laughter)

H: Anyway um Jamie says in her memo, paragraph six, “Sergeant Best

arrived and read the memo that I had turned in, stated that there was

nothing he could do. He stated that the, the reason that he spoke to

Marion is because his squad at the time was complaining because Marion

was not getting any calls and Lori was giving all the calls to them instead.”

Are we, is, is, are we talking about a conversation here that you were

privy to?

M: I was there in the room.

H: Okay, alright. “Sergeant Best did not give too many other details but

stated that Marion denied that anything was going on between him and

Lori.”

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M: Right.

H: Right?

M: Right.

H: As in that’s correct, that’s accurate?

M: Yes .

H: “Sergeant Best stated that it was turned over to Lieutenant Duke and

Marion denied that anything was going on.”

M: I don’t know if he denied it to Lieutenant Duke.

H: Okay, “Tammy showed Sergeant Best and me a card” and it says “see

enclosure three” (papers shuffling) and I believe that that would be this?

M: Yeah.

H: Okay and this is the sexy smile, sexy talk, sexy kisses card uh it’s a copy

of it.

M: Yeah one year anniversary on there too.

H: One year anniversary love card?

M: Yes .

H: Okay so a card was shown. “Tammy stated that the card was left at her

house on purpose by Marion when he left the house to move in with Lori.”

M: I didn’t say that, I just said it was left on the work bench. I don’t know why

he left it, if he left it intentionally or if he didn’t, it was just there.

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H: He, right, okay, that’s not important. (Pause) reference this card “Tammy

asked, isn’t that enough proof that he lied to Sergeant Best, Lieutenant

Duke, myself and everyone else that has asked Marion about the affair?

Sergeant Best stated that there was really nothing that he could do.”

M: (Pause) kinda.

H: Is that kinda accurate?

M: Kinda, just

H: And that’s

M: Yeah I just asked you know because Lieutenant, or, um Sergeant Best

was saying you know “he’s not on our shift anymore, it was in regards to

the shift, its not a big deal” and I just asked him, I’m like, you know, he’s,

“you’ve told me that he’s lied, he lied to you, he lied to Otero” and like I

said I didn’t (both speaking inaudible)

H: Sergeant Best told you that Marion lied to him?

M: Well that’s what he was saying when, no, he didn’t say that. I asked him

“isn’t he lying to you because I showed you the um card showing that it’s

been a year” and he’s like, you know, he’s moved (laughter in voice) off

our shift and as soon as that was done it was over. The memo went to

Lieutenant Duke; it goes from Lieutenant Duke there so

H: Okay (pause) we talked about the court ordered custody agreement?

M: Yes, it’s not true.

H: When you say that’s not true you’re saying you didn’t give Jamie

information

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M: I did not tell her

H: to that effect?

M: it was a court order.

H: Okay.

M: It was a verbal.

H: (Pause, papers shuffling) did Jamie tell you that she was gonna have to

report some of this stuff to Sergeant Gillman because she thought it was

misconduct?

M: No.

H: (Papers shuffling)

M: And like I said it was just a discussion about divorces and nightmares

(laughter). I wasn’t expecting to have Captain Moss in my office within a

couple of hours.

H: Okay, we have now covered everything that was mentioned in this memo

that the Department would be concerned about if it were true, now

obviously that leaves out quite a great deal of personal crisis and you

know divorce related personal issues. Is there anything that we haven’t

discussed or wasn’t written in that memo that if it were true would be

misconduct that you are aware of, because if there is let’s here it okay?

M: No.

H: No, you’re indicating no?

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M: No.

H: Okay.

M: Not that I’m aware of right now but like I said I get new stuff every day so

it’s just

H: Well is it fair to say that you’re kind of doing a little bit of investigating on

your own?

M: I have to.

H: In support of your upcoming um civil court issues?

M: Well its not only that its just, I’m trying to find out what the hell I was

married to, I (laughter in voice) I’m, I’m finding out so much stuff, like I

said you know, some of the stuff you hear in here is

H: Okay, alright so, but we were, there’s no more possible misconduct that

you’re aware of at this time, is that correct?

M: Right.

H: Okay um is this gonna create any sort of issue between you and Jamie

Crawford?

M: No.

H: Or anyone else in this

M: No I just

H: chain of who knew what and who things were discussed with?

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M: No I just know I just can’t confide in anybody anymore.

H: Well when it comes to the, the, the Departmental issues here are multiple.

One of them is do we have misconduct. The other one is um do we have

information being disseminated in the Department that also at some point

is, uh damaging or unfair or prejudicial towards Marion. Now before you

jump on that one um we have a obligation to all of our employees and so

you two being both employees here that creates, you know, if, if, if one of

you didn’t work here that would cut our potential liabilities and

responsibilities right in half.

M: Right.

H: But since you both do, you know this sort of information getting out, lets

say uh, uh Jamie Crawford hears something from you in a, in a perfectly

and, and you know in a, in a conversation that’s just meant to, you know,

you can vent your frustrations about all that’s going on in your personal

life and she reads more into it than it really, than was really said.

M: Right.

H: And she tells two friends and they tell two friends and so on and so on.

Um that’s were the problem lies, has anybody in your chain of command

told you to button this up?

M: Yes .

H: And did they explain to you why?

M: I was talked to by Sergeant Messina, I was talked to by Lieutenant Duke

and asked if this was gonna be an issue, this was gonna be a problem

and like I said, it wasn’t, I didn’t believe that you know, like I said I was

just talking about the nightmare that I was going through, I wasn’t talking

about Marion, about Marion, I was talking abut you know, divorces, she

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was explaining about her divorce, what they went through and you know

like I told Captain Moss um you know the Department is a resource and

so I have to be able to talk to some of the people that have been through

divorces because I’m supposedly his fifth wife now so he knows how to

do this stuff, I don’t. I don’t know anything about it so I’m asking them you

know what do you do in child custody, what do you do in this and its not

to talk about him but to get whatever I need so I can move on and

H: But do you understand, have you been you know, made to understand uh

that regardless of your intent when you have these conversations they

can flower

M: Well now

H: or mushroom.

M: now that I’ve talked to Captain Moss and yeah that, I mean and just

seeing the memo yeah, I mean I, I

H: And do you think and having said that, do you think that Jamie Crawford

is doing any sort of mean spirited uh manipulative re-interpretation of

what you told her or this is just simply something that was misunderstood

and repeated?

M: Um you know some of it I think is misunderstood and, and misread, I

asked her ‘cause she said “I filed a complaint” and I looked at her and I

was like, “why, why would you do that, you know I had Captain Moss in

my office, why would you do that. He gives me this list of all these things

and is asking me all these questions about you know something I was

talking to you, to you about that you know it wasn’t supposed to go

anywhere but the office you know, we were”

H: Well but then we’re back to, I, I understand what you’re saying but we’re,

we are back to the, the reality of, of her obligation to the Department.

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M: And, and exactly and that’s what she was saying to me and I do believe

that you know, because the conversation was strictly talking about the

divorces and nightmares and stuff like that that um she wasn’t getting

information that she could have used to say okay, this isn’t criminal

‘cause this has been looked into or whatever else. She didn’t have that

information. I didn’t give it to her because like I said we, that wasn’t our

conversation.

H: Do you think she, uh back to the question I originally asked you, do you

think there’s anything culpable about any of the information that’s been

misinterpreted and redistributed?

M: I don’t understand culpable, what do you mean?

H: Do you think that there’s anything sinister in, in her, her interpretation or

misinterpretation in giving this information?

M: I, I wouldn’t know, I, I wouldn’t, I would hope not you know, I, I don’t

believe that she would intentionally do it, she apologized to me.

H: Okay, enough said. Alright do you have any, I think we’ve covered the

fact that there’s no other alleged or suspected misconduct to dig into at

this time.

M: (Laughter) I say that so far there’s nothing to look into other than you

know

H: Okay I’m gonna go ahead and end the interview at uh 9:38 a.m. on the

29th of September, 2009.

Transcribed by Diana P. Markez of the Bullhead City Police Department.

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