BUSINESS ENTERPRISE PROGRAM of OREGONBECC SPECIAL MEETING

OREGON COMMISSION FOR THE BLIND535 SE 12th ST (Portland office)

Thursday, February 11, 2016, at 3:30 PM

Conference line: 404-443-6397Participant code: 943611#

AGENDA1. CALL TO ORDER

a. Roll call2. PUBLIC COMMENTS (3 minutes per person)3. TEAM PARTNERING (action item)4. SUB-COMMITTEES5. ADJOURNMENT

[00:05:36]

Miranda: Okay, I’ve got 3:32 pm so I’m going to go ahead and start it. So, I’m gonna, um, call this meeting to order. And on… I’m gonna make an amendment to the agenda: on the, um, teaming partners, where it’s an action item, we’re not gonna take a vote on that today, um, because we’re going to… I talked to a couple of the Elected Committee members and we’re going to open this up today for information, you know, where people can talk. ‘Cause I know that, you know, the emotions are high, it’s causing a lot of stress and, you know, all that. So, um, anyway, I want everybody to be able to talk freely and give their opinions and their concerns and I want to hear it all. So, anyway, that’s… that’s the amendment there. So, now I’ll do roll call so we’ll start with the, uh… with the Elected Committee. Cathy Dominique?

Colley-Dominique: Here.

Miranda: Uh, Char Mckinzie?

Mckinzie/Hawkins: Here.

Miranda: Tessa Brown?

Brown: I’m here.

Miranda: Harold Young?

Young: Here.

Miranda: And Ken Gerlitz?

Gerlitz: Here.

Miranda: And Lewanda Miranda; we’re all here. Now membership roll call: Art Stevenson?

[silence]

A.Stevenson: I’m…

Miranda: Art?

A.Stevenson: I’m here.

Miranda: Okay. Jerry Bird?

Bird: Here.

Miranda: Derrick Stevenson? [silence] Derrick Stevenson? [silence] Gordon Smith?

Smith: Here.

A.Stevenson: Somebody just came on.

Miranda: Okay, Lin Jaynes?

Jaynes: Present.

Miranda: Steve Gordon?

Gordon: Here.

Miranda: Oh!

Smith: Whoa! A new man!

Gordon: Yeah, believe it or not, huh?

Miranda: Uh, Randy Hauth?

Hauth: Here.

Miranda: Randy Hauth? Uh, Salvador Barraza? [silence] Sal Barraza?

Jackson: [inaudible] he’s not here.

Miranda: Steve Jackson?

Jackson: Steve Jackson’s here.

Miranda: All right, Steve.

[male voice]: All right.

Miranda: Uh, Tessa Brown? Oh, no no no no, never mind. Um, oh, Carole Kinney.

Kinney: Here.

Miranda: And… did I miss anybody? [silence] Okay. Um, Agency staff?

Morris: Eric is here.

Miranda: Eric. Anyone else from the Agency?

Morris: No.

Haseman: Linda Haseman.

Miranda: Visitors: Linda Haseman. Any other visitors?

McQuillan: Carla McQuillan.

Miranda: Carla McQuillan. Any other visitors?

Medina: Anthony Medina.

Miranda: Anthony Medina. Any other visitors? [silence] Okay. So, now I’m gonna open for public comments: uh, three minutes.

Hauth: Yeah, Lewanda, this is Randy.

Miranda: Randy.

Hauth: Uh, I’d like to start out first and ask Eric, or if you could ask Eric if a fiscal impact has been done on this, uh, budget proposal. Also, I’d like to share my utmost concern that, not only weren’t the Oregon Commission for the Blind Commissioners informed or made aware of this budget proposal but, as well, the BECC and/or the membership were not made aware of the budget proposal. Um, along with other several items including the Department of Justice

contracts that were recently signed [inaudible] no active participation. Um, as well, I’d just like to share my utmost concern that the Agency seems to be being more reclusive than inclusive and that’s not the intent of the Oregon statutes or the Act. And also, I’m very ashamed of the Agency; I’m very ashamed of the testimony that was given by Dacia Johnson to the Commissioners; I’m very ashamed that they were not provided input on this. Um, I know that it’s a serious concern. And, as well, the infrastructure, the sloppiness of what this budget proposal has been put together, which did not include any infrastructure… [male voice interrupted] …about the, um, machines, did not talk about the ADA-compliant machines, did not talk about the blind-accessible machines, which are another $2000 per month. And, again, circling back, could you please find out if there’s been a fiscal impact study done on this I’d sure appreciate it. But, certainly opposed to the budget proposal that OCB sloppily put together. And very misleading, very inaccurate information. Thank you very much.

[00:10:33]

Miranda: Thank you. Um, Eric, can you be a… a watchkeeper… timekeeper for me?

Morris: Sure.

Miranda: Thank you. Any other public comments?

Bird: Jerry Bird.

Miranda: Okay, Jerry.

Bird: Yeah, I’m a… I’m a little concerned that… well, uh… I’ll come back in a minute. I lost my train of thought.

Jackson: Can Steve Jackson say something?

Miranda: Sure, Steve. Go ahead.

Jackson: I’d like to say that I feel very concerned about the non-transparency and things being done and decisions being made without active participation. I’m really… I’m really stressed out about it, you know, honestly. I’d just like to say that we need to, you know, start communicating better. You know, I’m asking, you know, the Board of Elected Committee members to… to step up and help… help me. Um, I’m still being threatened, you know, to have a place of business where I’ve worked taken away from me. And it will, you know, effect my bottom line. And so, you know, I’ve been doing the best I can there. There’s no… no complaints, you know. I’m keeping everything up to date and I’d just like to have my Operating Agreement for the State Building so I could sign it. Please and thank you.

Bird: Okay, Jerry Bird.

Miranda: Okay, Jerry.

Bird: Yeah, I… I was a little concerned at the Commissioners meeting when Dacia kind of… used the reason maybe why they didn’t get active participation or discuss it with… with the blind vendors to… who is impacted, and kind of used the justification as they didn’t have time, they had to get it in there, they had these dates they had to get in and they had to ambush and just put it in. Well, I say that’s a bunch of baloney because their first thing is talk to us and if they don’t make the date before they go through the procedure then there’s the Randolph-Sheppard Act to discuss it with… with them and get our approval prior to doing it, like we’ve all said, is just a bunch of baloney. I mean, if they… if they can’t ambush us and use that as an excuse – they didn’t have time. Well, they needed to make time and maybe next session. But I think it’s baloney for them to bypass the Randolph-Sheppard Act that governs our program and protects the licensed blind vendors. Thank you.

Miranda: Any other public comments?

Jaynes: Um, yes, Lewanda… Chair Lewanda? This is Lin Jaynes.

Miranda: Yes, Lin? Mm hm.

Jaynes: I… I’d like to clarify something. Um, Randy’s, um, was really breaking up on every other word. I wasn’t able to hear him on this meeting or the last meeting when he was speaking, so I’d like to clarify. What he’s asking is the Director [inaudible] a fiscal impact study on what [inaudible due to poor connection].

Miranda: You know, you’re breaking up, too. If everybody’s not on mute could you please mute your phones? I think that would help. Okay, could you… could you repeat that, Lin?

Jaynes: When Randy was speaking, due to the feedback issue he had this time and the last time he was… a meeting was being held, did I hear him correctly in his asking our Director if he had done a fiscal impact study on this budget [inaudible].

Miranda: A fiscal impact study on what?

Jaynes: On the budget request.

Miranda: Yes. Yes.

Jaynes: All right…

Bird: I think she’s asking if Eric would answer the question.

Miranda: Well, I was gonna finish with the public comments first and then we’ll… come back around to that.

Jaynes: Thank you.

Miranda: Mm. Any other public comments?

Haseman: Linda Haseman.

Miranda: Yes, Linda.

Haseman: Well, what I can tell you is y’all know my background in staffing and budgeting [bad feedback] and looking over the budget proposal is significantly flawed, as has been pointed out. Also, I want to make sure that, uh, everybody has had a chance to review Jerry Allen’s letter. He’s an attorney at law in Oregon and his, uh, understanding of the AG opinion is completely different from what Dacia Johnson prepared and submitted, unbeknownst to the BECC and all the licensed blind managers on January 22 to the [inaudible due to bad feedback] Committee or, I’m sorry, to the Human Services sub-committee of the Ways and Means. So, hopefully, everybody gets a chance… [feedback]

A.Stevenson: You need to be quiet.

Haseman: ...Jerry Allen’s letter. It’s very important for all your livelihoods to understand and also for possible litigation that could be filed, should this [inaudible] move forward. Thank you.

Miranda: Thank you. Any other public comments? [silence] Okay, hearing none, we’ll move on to…

A.Stevenson: This is Art Stevenson.

Miranda: All right. Go ahead, Art.

A.Stevenson: I… sorry, it took me a minute to get off mute. Um, I’d like to say that I’m very concerned about the fact that federal laws, state laws have been broken in this process and the active participation did not occur. The agency agrees, as a State Licensing Agency, to follow the laws and the rules and regulations of the program and there is no, uh, excuse for… doing that. There are definite policies and procedures that are supposed to be done and, as a matter of fact, you know, the Attorney General’s opinion was very narrow, uh, things were not asked, like writing rules for teaming partners or any of that kind of stuff, even though it has been a discussion of this group for over two years. And, um, I do believe that the managers have been held to “Hey you gotta follow the laws and rules and regulations.” In fact, if we sign our Operating Agreement and we break those laws and rules, we lose our licenses. And… and therefore, there is no excuse for what has happened here. Um, and I went through the rule-making class that the Attorney General’s office put on and we can write rules in the teaming partner aspect so everything would be absolutely tight, there would be no violations of the laws. And that’s what the Agency should be doing, they should be writing rules to ensure the

proper and satisfactory operations of vending facilities and for the benefit of the blind licensed managers, which is their responsibility. Thank you.

Miranda: Any other public comments?

Gordon: Yes, Miranda. Steve Gordon.

Miranda: Yes, Steve?

Gordon: Yeah, I would like to put in a comment that basically I’m in full agreement with those that have spoken and it just… it just seems like it’s another turnaround, another same-old same-old same different day and I just don’t get it. I mean, why do we even have a BECC Board if everything’s gonna be continually controlled by the administration part of it… of OCB. And I’m just… I’m really disappointed. I know… I don’t even get emails back from Eric and on other some… other personal issues… Lewanda, you know about it. But I just can’t understand why this continuing stuff has to happen all the time. It’s… it’s uncalled for, it’s very unprofessional and… we’re just getting beat down continually. I’d like to know and hear the opinion of our BECC Board and hear what they have to say. I’d like to know their comments. Thank you.

Miranda: Any other public comments?

Gerlitz: Well, this is Ken. I’d be surprised if this proposal goes through the financial… the budget committee. I just would be very surprised. And Randy was right. I mean, that’s one of the first questions you ask: Is there gonna be any fiscal impact? And believe me, that’s what they usually look at first and if there is, they look very carefully at how that fiscal impact’s not only going to affect our program but the Commission’s and the State of Oregon. And I, uh, I’d like to know where all this began, this… this… you know, about getting us out to monitor one of our vending locations. You know, the whole thing that’s coming out where they’re gonna buy this equipment for us and all that. Where did… where did it first begin? Who came up with this idea?

Hauth: Exactly! [inaudible]

[00:20:36]

Miranda: Any other public comments? [silence] Eric, did you want to answer the question on the fiscal impact that Randy had?

Morris: Yeah. Um, there… there wasn’t a fiscal impact statement completed as in, I think, a lot of different uh… um proposals have to have. Like when you do rule-making you have to submit a fiscal impact statement. Now, with the budget request there was financial documents submitted – I believe we shared that with everybody – of the methodology behind the calculations, the methodology for the increased profit percentages and the increased set-aside

that would be generated to help funding continued operations. But a fiscal impact statement I don’t believe was required nor has one in that specific category been done.

Hauth: Should’ve… should’ve been done and your projections were inaccurate.

[silence]

Miranda: Okay, then the other question about how did this come about. You know, I’ve been, um, talking to as many people as I can and trying to… um, collect all the information that I can. And so, it’s my understanding that when we were working on our rules and they went before the Attorney General, she’s the one that caught it and… um, you know, questioned the sub-contracting. And it came out in her opinion that she had some concerns about it. Um, then Dacia asked for clarification on it, or an actual opinion on it. Is… is that correct, Eric?

Morris: Yes.

Miranda: Well, that… that’s what I’ve heard. You know, that’s how it came about. Um…

Jaynes: Chairwoman Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Lin?

Jaynes: I just have one… one comment, or actually a question really. Um, I’ve gotten some information that the ADA in December of 2016 is actually requiring on all equipment the blind reader screen, which I think is gonna run around $2000 above the cost of the machines. I’m wondering if our Director had any information on that?

Miranda: You have any information on that, Eric?

Morris: I do not. I found out about that recently from NAMA so, I’m gonna look into that.

Jaynes: Thank you.

Hauth: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Randy?

Hauth: Yeah, I’d just like to follow up on that. The ADA compliance is about $1000 additional per machine and the… actually the proposal… and that’s why I said the proposal was so flawed because it didn’t encompass any infrastructure, you know, as far as vans, shelving, um, any kind of training and, you know, pallet jacks and, you know, the list goes on and on. But also it did not encompass the ADA-compliant machines which will be required by 2016 and, on top of that, also the blind-accessible machines which, we’re talking about 900 an some-odd machines, add another $2000 on to that. Nor did it encompass any moving machines in and moving machines

out and that’s why… I don’t want to beat a dead horse, but that proposal was so flawed from A to Z and so I just want to provide that information for you. It wasn’t very well thought out and there’s a lot of additional thought that people did not incorporate. Thank you.

Miranda: All right…

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Mm hm?

A.Stevenson: Um, yeah, and I can absolutely tell you that no machines that are not accessible… and I noticed on the uh… on the uh, thing that Eric done, the Crane machines were on the list. Well, I can tell you that the Crane machines are not fully accessible and therefore federal dollars cannot, I repeat that, cannot be used to purchase those machines.

Miranda: All Crane machines?

A.Stevenson: Um, they… they are not accessible, totally, and I got this from Nicky Gacos, who is a part of NAMA and, uh, basically an expert that the Crane machines aren’t totally accessible and therefore OCB cannot use federal funds which… that’s what they’re planning on doing, is using federal matching dollars, cannot be used to purchase those machines.

Miranda: Okay. Well, I… you know…

Bird: …Bird! I…

Miranda: Go ahead, Jerry.

Bird: Well, I’d like to ask that question of Eric also, where he, uh… how he figured that we’re gonna make 30% more and how that 30% more, the Agency’s gonna get 11% of that. Now, I tried to explain to him before in our meeting… Well, I won’t get into why… what… But anyway, that he seems to think that people get twenty, twenty-five percent. Now, I may get a little bit different, depends on how we negotiate with our partners, uh, that… how he thinks they’re gonna get another 30% when I’ve tried to explain to him I’ve done it in the past… we cannot purchase… purchase product at the cost that Canteen can. So, therefore, my food costs will be easily 50% or higher. Now, that only leaves 40%, Eric. And then out of that you have to buy your… pay your employees, you have to pay rent on your warehouse, you have to, uh, you know, you got waste and you got all that. You’ve got… you’ve got all this overhead that pushes that down and I think you’re gonna be surprised when they’re filling ‘em all and all the expenses of new employees and benefits and $12 an hour and… and the insurance and, as it boils down and the little bit that’s left, I don’t think you’re gonna make a dime more. You may… it may even be less. But yet you purchase $4 million worth of machines that could be used... I’m… I’m okay with buying some and that with people that want to do it. But when you force it and you use… to these people that you guys are… and we’re gonna gain money, it just is not

true. I mean, the expenses, the overhead, don’t add up. I mean, it just… just don’t. Canteen can do it because they buy in quantities and they buy so much that they get a… and they can sell it and pay a profit. We’re not gonna be able to do it. If we want to make that 30% I don’t know if people’s gonna pay five bucks for a Pepsi. Thank you.

[00:28:24]

Morris: Well, I think…

Hawkins/Mckinzie: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Well, I know a lot of us have a lot of questions, a lot of unanswered questions and um, you know, we don’t even know if we’re going to get the… the budget. Um… why don’t, you know, I mean there’s… It is confusing and… and I can tell you that we’ll be having a lot more meetings in the future. And…

Hawkins/Mckinzie: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Char?

Hawkins/Mckinzie: Yeah, I was just thinking, I know there are other states where managers do their vending, fill their machines and it would be interesting to talk to some of them. They obviously are making money and so I think we should get some ideas from them how that all works.

Young: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Harold.

Young: I would just like to say, as an Elected Committee member, that there are a lot of concerns out there. I have them, you have them, the rest of the Elected Committee have them. You know, a lot of us, the Elected Committee or the managers did not know a lot about this so, right before or during the last BECC meeting. So, it is quite a shock, it’s a lot to take in. Like Lewanda said… Chair Miranda said, we need to wait to see what happens with the budget. And then if they get the money we’re gonna have to work real closely with them each step of the way.

[male voice]: My god, [inaudible].

Young: Hopefully, they’ll let us do that and get the job done down the road. Hopefully, it’ll… if it does happen, hopefully through a lot of meetings, it’ll maybe work out. Thank you.

Miranda: Well, I guess the most confusing part…Smith: Lewanda, this is…

Miranda: I guess the most confusing part is that we don’t really know how it’s going to be rolled out. We don’t know, you know, uh… [inaudible] unanswered questions. Go ahead, Gordo. [silence] Gordo?

Smith: Yes, uh, you know, it’s sort of interesting over all these years that we’ve been in the program and I… I… This is just a comment. I’m gonna put it out there – it was something on my mind – that, I don’t know how many times that we have tried to get an AG comment on something and, uh, the only one that we have got is sounding like it’s going to be a real problem to each and every one of us.

Hauth: Uh, yeah, Lewanda?

Miranda: Randy.

Hauth: Yeah, I’d just like to share, so people know: it appears to us that Dacia is desperately in need of money and this is a mechanism to do some additional funding through federal matching upon our backs. I can tell you that her comments, which they showed, basically she made during the Oregon Commission for the Blind’s Board meeting, and that Eric has also made, where the Agency can take in-house vending is totally illegal. For them to even make that comment makes me concerned about how much they don’t know this program. There is not a state in the nation that takes assigned vending in-house. There are some states that take unassigned vending and they distribute it through managers, but that is totally illegal. And I can tell you right now, hopefully this all works out, um… we are posed to press legally and address this issue if the Agency once again tries to impose their, um… their will upon the managers improperly. Eric said on that meeting, during the last BECC meeting, when I posed the question about what… what’s this all about and what happens if we don’t get the vending and he didn’t say anything until after the vote to adopt the rules were made. And I thought that was totally inappropriate [inaudible] we share, engage and share all the information we’ve had and I can tell you that this is, like… like Gordon said, it appears kind of odd that all of a sudden there’s an AG opinion. And it looks like… looks like the research has been going on longer than just the last couple months. And so, just again, really disappointed with the leadership of the Agency. You guys should be working with the community and working with the managers and saying, “Look, how do we address this?” You guys framed the question to the AG, you didn’t even ask the… the Elected Committee, you didn’t even ask the managers. You guys are creating a whole façade behind the scenes and it’s inappropriate. So, it’s just very frustrating and again it shouldn’t be done that way. So, hopefully you guys can figure out how to do it the right way. Thank you.

[00:33:16]

Miranda: [inaudible] opposed…

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Are you guys opposed, um, to the Agency going to the, uh, legislature to get money for our program?

D.Stevenson: This is Derrick.

Miranda: Yes, Derrick?

D.Stevenson: Um, well, to answer that question I’d have to say, um, yes, I… I think, you know, we… we need to stand firm now and we need to put a stop to it now. I mean, if they want to go and try and get some money to replace all the money that they’ve taken from our program and the reason that we’re in the situation that we’re in now is because they wasted so much money over the years they… that they brought our set-aside down so low that we couldn’t afford to buy machines. So, actually, most managers didn’t have a choice but to go to sub-contractors. And I also want to just throw it out there that the Attorney General’s opinion does not say we cannot sub-contract. As long as we’re… as long as we’re supervising and… and in control of what happens at our locations we can sub-contract. And to even let ‘em proceed on this based on a bogus Attorney General’s opinion that doesn’t say what they say it says is ridiculous. And if we let ‘em continue then we’re accepting that AG’s opinion and we just can’t do it. It’s… it’s just… it’s just going [inaudible] go too far. We let ‘em go so far, we’re never gonna get the brakes put on. We oppose this hard, from the beginning and tell ‘em to stop it. The AG’s opinion does not say we cannot sub-contract or have teaming partners.

Gerlitz: Madame Chair?

Miranda: Yes, Kenny?

Gerlitz: Yeah, I think we’re all kind of going… getting back to the AG’s quote opinion. I can’t believe that anybody, even the Assistant Attorney General’s office, can start to make a decision on what she perceives to be a major change in our program, laws which guide our program and never once sitting down with us and even talking about the pitfalls and the problems that we’re gonna be running into. I mean, it’s common sense that you get your information before you start, not after the fact. And seems again… I hate to beat this to death but it just seems like these decisions are coming after the fact and a lot of people out there could’ve helped her understand… I mean, she’s always had a negative opinion of our program, as far as I’m concerned. So can you expect a fair shake when you’re… the person that you’re dealing with is wielding this muscle [inaudible] our program to begin with.

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Art.

A.Stevenson: Um, I need to say… and I posed this question to Eric and… and of course I never got any response, but they are basing their request on all the vending that we have in Oregon and there are lots of federal locations. And, no matter what, they cannot mandate that the

people in the federal locations have to do those locations. They can sub-contract them; it’s being done all over the country. Uh, I spoke with Nicky Gacos and he sub-contracts the vending in his location. Um, he oversees them, um, but… and to go to the legislature, uh, with the perception that all the vending in Oregon, they’re gonna buy equipment from it, is… is also a bogus request. And when this all pans out and the legislators see, um, you know, what has gone on here, um, I… they’re… they are going to just be appalled on how un-thought-about and the whole thing this whole thing is. So, quite frankly, I’m embarrassed that we’re going to the legislator… legislation asking for money and mandating that… that managers, especially the ones who have the federal locations, have to do what OCB says they have to do because that’s a violation of the law and it’s opening… it’s opening up the Agency to litigation. And it will happen, so I think we do have to oppose this because it is all based on a false premise and… and it’s gonna make us all look bad. And me as a manager, I don’t want to look bad; I want our program to look good and... and this… this is going to be a very very embarrassing moment for the program and I believe the Agency should withdraw the request, do what they actually should’ve done in the first place, and then if we have to go for the money, which I do not think we have to, and if we do I would much rather it be used to establish new facilities that we don’t have, like the Safety Academy, the Capital cafeteria, etc. etc. etc. and expand and definitely create more jobs for blind people. So, we’re at a very very embarrassing moment here and… and, uh, the Commission has put us in that situation and I think, you know, I think we need to do what’s gonna make us look good. Because, uh, you know, we have been trying to do things right and cleaning… adopt teaming partner language in our rules. And the Agency has been quite aware of it and just ignored the facts. So, um, I urge the Committee to vote not to support this because it is, you know, it’s based on false premises, it’s based on a faulty AG’s opinion that was very narrow in scope and all the questions weren’t asked and the Agency knew they should’ve been asking those questions but they didn’t. So, I urge my member on the Elected Committee not to support this and… and let’s clean up this mess before it gets a whole heck of a lot worse ‘cause it’s gonna be embarrassing to the Agency and to us. Thank you.

Bird: Jerry Bird!

Miranda: Yes, Jerry.

[00:40:45]

Bird: Yeah, I just want to make a little comment on… on the AG’s opinion. They have posted opinions in the past. I have one that says we have first right of refusal. In fact, they… even the last one they got that kind of said, like, well, maybe we have to… we should have to commissions in colleges and… and all this baloney. And now… and their attorney thinks that, uh, you know, it’s a level playing field we have; no preference or anything. But my… what I want to say is I went to federal court and in that court part of my thing is that opinion. And this is how I… I’m gonna tell you how opinions are. I believe, coming out here really shortly, that judge is gonna easily prove that that opinion was negative, was not a proper opinion. And it’s very clear that, uh, we don’t pay commissions and stuff like this. So, once again, [inaudible] opinions that come out… do not change the legislature’s intent. But the Agency should… when they see

something like that, when they ask for something, they just don’t accept it. They just say, “We believe you’re wrong. And… and we’re gonna continue doing it this way.” So, if the Attorney General wants to prosecute ‘em then we’ll get the Randolph-Sheppard Act involved and we’ll prove to ‘em they were wrong. But this Agency says, “Okay… thank you. You gave us just exactly what we wanted. Thank you.” And so opinions are that. Thank you.

D.Stevenson: This is Derrick.

Brown: Chair Miranda.

Miranda: Yes, Tessa?

Brown: Um, I’d just like to say… I’ve been sitting back and listening to all of the comments, I’ve been reading the emails going back and forth, and I think , um… well, first… I think many things but first of all I think in the twelve years I’ve been in the program this is the first time I’ve heard the entire BEP, all of the managers, having the same opinion. We’re all agreeing on something that… that this, um… AG’s opinion and the consequences that may out… be an outcome from it are supposedly devastating to us individually and as a program. And I think that if we keep communicating, keep having our meetings, um, keep talking to one another and to, um, the Commission and a respectful, um, but firmly… I think, you know, we can make this change a positive change. Change is hard for everybody but especially people with disabilities, like vision impairment or total blindness, um… I know I’m rambling. I apologize. But… change is hard and I’m really proud of everybody for sticking together and, um… that’s all.

D.Stevenson: Chair Miranda, I do want to…

Smith: [inaudible]

D.Stevenson: Oh, go ahead, Gordo.

Smith: Yeah, this is totally off of the wall. I just want Steve Gordon to know that we know his wife has a problem and brother, we pray for you all the time.

[male voice]: Yes, we do.

A.Stevenson: Chair… Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Art?

A.Stevenson: Okay, I am… I want to comment a little bit more on what Jerry said because I sat in that courtroom and I heard the judge chastise our Attorney General, uh, during the… during the hearing that we wouldn’t be here if the State of Oregon had written appropriate rules, ones to cover the aspect of what we’ve been trying to say all along. And, uh, I just urge, you know,

the Elected Committee that we for too long haven’t had… haven’t had the appropriate rules to administer our program and it has caused problem after problem. And I agree with Jerry when… when the, uh, judge finds on this case there is gonna be favorable stuff in there. But we do have to take it that step further and make sure that our rules are complete, that they cover everything that they should cover, including compliance language, with the… which the federal act has but our State Act doesn’t. Um, we have spent money on a nationally renowned attorney’s office to look at our State statutes and to, uh… give his opinion. He is definitely the leading expert on the Randolph-Sheppard Vending Program and… and we have to step up to the plate and we need to do what we haven’t done in the thirty years, almost, that I’ve been in this program and… and write rules and hold people accountable for doing what they should be doing. So… [silence]

D.Stevenson: This is Derrick.

Miranda: Yeah, Derrick.

D.Stevenson: Yeah, I just want to throw out my… my kind of opinion on this. Um, the Commission… we cannot allow, every time we get a new head of the Commission for the Blind or a new Director, to let ‘em come in here and try and change things that’ve… that’ve happened in the past. The Commission for the Blind for… for… I don’t know how many years, ten, twelve… twelve years has interpreted that the law said that we can use sub-contractors and that is legal. And because they allowed us to do that, that… that right there makes a statement on how we… the… the laws were interpreted by the Commission for the Blind. They cannot change things just because they get a new… a new head. I mean, past… past practice says a lot of what we can do and what we can’t do and since it’s been allowed and that’s what our livelihood and everything is based on they cannot come in now and say we can’t do it. And I also want to throw out there that… What happens if we don’t get the money? This is the only thing that can happen: if the Commission for the Blind truly wants to say that we cannot do, um, sub-contractors, all our vending will be taken away from us and the money going to the Commission for the Blind and our set-aside for them to spend however they want. You know, two thirds of our managers will no longer be in this program and will no longer exist. And because the Commission has not given us any kind of explanation of what’s gonna happen if we don’t get the money… they’re not… they’re not telling us. And that’s why: because they’re gonna take it all away and saw we can’t do it. So we…we cannot just sit back and let ‘em… let… see how things turn up. We gotta… we gotta step up, contest this hard and not let it happen.

Hauth: Chair Miranda, may I say something real quick?

Miranda: Yes, Randy.

D.Stevenson: I think there’s one more…

Hauth: Yeah, I’d just like to say, um, kudos to the Board and kudos to you for calling this special meeting. I know it’s not easy for you to oppose the administration. However, if you look back

over the past couple of months: the Department of Justice contracts, the Rules, all those things being done behind the scenes without any true active participation, like Ken said. And again, what Tessa said, lookit: we’re all on the same page and that’s where we should be…

[female voice]: [inaudible] upset with that.

Hauth: … you know? That’s what the Committee should be doing, they should be advocating. And that’s great and I appreciate that and, uh, you know, even though it’s hard I… I know that we need to take, for the life of our program and for the life of our managers, we need to take a hard stance here. I’ll do it on my own or I’ll do it with a group and I hope that I can do it along with this group. Thank you.

Gerlitz: Chairwoman Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Kenny.

[00:50:01]

Gerlitz: I’ll still think we’re missing an important cog in this wheel and that’s our current teaming partners. You know, we have contracts with them. I know when Quail came down here to consider buying out Three Rivers, this time they turned my proposal down because they said there’s just no way they could recuperate the money they were gonna… planning on spending well over a million dollars just on new equipment then. And I think now if we just, in effect, decide that they’re not gonna be part of our locations, uh, you know, we’re open to some extremely expensive lawsuits, litigation. I think, uh, you know, with the contract in hand I think they’ll win. I don’t know how we’re supposed to get around these contracts. I mean, it’s just like the VA… a portion in there said something about if we oppose or try to change this contract later, it’s no longer… you know, it’s null and void and [inaudible]. And I haven’t heard that the AG’s even considered what that could mean… what they could mean.

Bird: That’s ‘cause contractors won’t let us put in without cause, ‘cause why would you want to put in a bunch of equipment, just like OCB wants to do, and then thirty days later the building’s mad because it’s not being filled correctly because people… it’s just taking us a while. And so they say, “Well, I don’t like the color of your shoes and our contract says without cause we give you guys leave.” And so you gotta take up to your million dollars of vending machines and, what, put ‘em in a warehouse, Eric, you know? You guys are even… there’s no sighted person that would agree to invest money in a facility with the clause that you can be removed without cause. And I’ve… and we’ve asked about this for the last month or two and we hear nothing! Like, “We’re not gonna do it.” You guys don’t say a word. So does that mean you’re just gonna continue doing it?

D.Stevenson: Yeah, this is Derrick.

Miranda: Yes, Derrick.

D.Stevenson: Yeah, I just want to throw out there, I… I think that if the Commission for the Blind is gonna go in front of the legislature they ought to… they ought to at least go in to make our whole program… whole and buy new equipment for our… for our cafes and… and stuff that are ancient, using ancient equipment and haven’t been modernized in, like, twenty years or whatever. Yeah, we could use some money to fix up those and money so that we can actually go after the Safety Academy and other large cafeterias that we can’t do because we don’t have the money to buy the equipment. I mean, that’s what we should be doing, instead of going after putting blind people out of jobs.

Miranda: Well, I was asked by a couple managers to have this meeting ‘cause I know everyone is stressed out and it is very stressful. We don’t know what to expect; we don’t know, you know, what’s gonna happen or how things are gonna happen, whether they get the money or they don’t. Um, so I just wanted everybody to be heard and, um, so Eric, did you have anything to say?

Morris: I…

Gerlitz: Thanks for that, Lewanda.

Bird: I got another comment. Jerry.

Miranda: Okay, go ahead.

Bird: Um… why… let’s see. Why are you guys… Okay. You don’t seem to be that concerned… How can I say this? Never mind. Sorry.

Miranda: Jerry, we’re all concerned.

[00:54:04]

Jackson: Can I say something, Chair…

Miranda: Yes.

Jackson: …Miranda? This is Steve Jackson. I… I’d like this… this is my idea: I think we need a second opinion from another, um, attorney maybe. And we also… I’d like the Elected Committee to maybe, um, suggest to our Director to revoke his… what he submitted because it’s faulty, it’s not accurate, and it’s… it’s proposed too hastily. And so I really think that’s what we need to do. I strongly feel that. I think we all are feeling that and if we’re gonna ask for something we need to do it in the proper way. And… and if… if Dacia wants to have another opinion… she’s already went and got an opinion, she didn’t ask anybody, you know, on the Elected Committee if they could take the money to pay for it. I mean, I don’t remember if they did or not, but why don’t we get another opinion? I mean, it only seems to make sense to me.

Miranda: Well, we… we can make that request, but Jerry…

Bird: Yeah, Lewanda, I don’t mean that you guys aren’t concerned with these issues; I just feel like you’re not that concerned that… that your Director is not informing you guys, is not allowing you guys to perform your duties. I mean, I think you need to send him a letter of… um, [inaudible]. I mean, I get you’re concerned about this, but not… I mean, I would be quite upset that he’s not informed us and he waited till the end of the last meeting or I don’t know if you guys would’ve passed that or not. I wish he’d revoke, ‘cause he’s hiding stuff. You guys need to be extremely upset for your Director that you guys trusted for the last two years that they had you guys do all this stuff and then now the real… one’s coming out. And… and you’re like… you don’t just seem to be angry about that and that troubles me.

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Well, I… I don’t want to be angry and I don’t want to react. I’m just… I’m trying to collect information. I am very concerned. I’m not, you know…

Smith: Well, each and every one of us…

Miranda: I’m… I’m concerned, yeah, and I’m concerned for all of the managers and I don’t want to see anyone hurt. Um, you know, and we will have more meetings. We’re going to have to have a lot of meetings, um, so…

A.Stevenson: Chair… Chair Miranda?

D.Stevenson: I would suggest that we have an actual meeting, um, an Executive Session so that we can discuss this and poll so that… that you and everybody else can feel more relaxed about giving your opinion on what’s going on because we can’t… we can’t just wait and see what happens. Either we’re gonna control the outcome or we’re gonna… we’re gonna accept the outcome. What we… the BECC as a Committee needs to advocate and control the outcome. We need to… the BECC needs to decide whether or not this opinion holds weight or if… or it doesn’t and make a move on that. You can’t just sit back and wait.

Smith: Uh, Miranda, this is Gordo…

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Let Gordo speak.

Smith: I…

Miranda: Go ahead.

Smith: I would like to say real quickly that I’m… I’m also concerned, not only about each and every one of us, but I’m concerned about our [inaudible], as far as, uh, with myself is Coca Cola and… and Bigfoot and I’m very concerned about them also.

A.Stevenson: Mm hm. Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yeah, go ahead.

A.Stevenson: Okay. These… these kind of are facts – number one: laws and rules were broken, uh, in this process. And… and those are facts. There was no consultation with the Elected Committee, no active participation, um, and therefore because none of that occurred… I don’t know who’s requested, Lewanda, that you don’t take a vote today, but I…

Miranda: No one requested it.

A.Stevenson: Okay, well, I… I… I just wanna say, okay, because we know those facts and we know this process has been flawed and we know that attorneys have been hired already too… and stuff. I would urge the Elected Committee to vote not to support this until it’s done right. I know it’s hard. If I was on the Elected Committee I would have no problem with making a vote… motion and voting not to support this because of what has occurred. And… and so I urge you guys to reconsider that: to take a vote and then… and then let’s do it right. But I don’t… I don’t think we have the luxury of not doing anything. I think we need to make a statement and I urge my representative that if we’re going to do things in this program it’s going to be done right, it’s going to be in accordance of the laws and the rules and regulations. And I hope you guys reconsider, make a motion, take a vote and then we can pick up the pieces and do what we need to do to make sure it is done right. But I think at this time I would urge the Elected Committee… I don’t think we have the luxury of not taking action. So that’s my two cents and I’m muted.

Gerlitz: Well, I think that’s all we did, Art, when we were putting together our list for Eric and we shared it with Eric about all the pitfalls we can think of about this proposal. I’m sure that was passed on…

Hauth: Hey, uh, Lewanda? Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Mm hm?

Hauth: Yeah, you know what? I would like to hear from Eric. I mean, he is the Director of our program and I was in his interview session when he told us how he was going to advocate for this program and how he understood our concerns, so I would like to hear his position. I don’t think it’s fair that he just sit there and listen, so I would appreciate that…

Miranda: Well…

Hauth: …first and foremost.

Miranda: I’ve been waiting for everybody…

Hauth: And secondly… secondly, I would like to share with any on the line who would like to share, in short and concise terms, you can write and put public testimony on Oregon Legislative Information System, the OLIS. You can put your written testimony if you can’t show up in person on Monday morning at 8:30, which many are gonna show up. If you can’t show up in person you can share your, uh, comments on the OLIS which will go to all the Committee members on the Human Services…. I will share with you, also, that I do control, direct and supervise my business as most if not all of you do. And so, um, I think that’s a big piece of this puzzle as well, and so…. You know, and I’ve never… never been notified otherwise and so I’m very concerned. But if you guys want to do something about this… and, again, I appreciate you offering this forum for people, ‘cause obviously people are concerned, right? People are… are stressed and this was handled so, uh, improperly. But there is a way to make your voice heard through the legislative assembly, through OLIS. And, like Art said, there probably should be some kind of official action by the Committee, um, to address this. So thank you very much.

Miranda: Well, when everyone’s done talking on this then I’m going to give Director Morris the opportunity to speak, if he chooses, but I don’t want a bunch of interruptions. [silence] So, Director Morris, would you like to talk to the members?

[01:02:38]

Morris: Chair Miranda, I would… I would be happy to. Um, good afternoon everybody on this rainy Thursday afternoon. Um, you know, since I came to this program… and I’ve… I’ve only been around for three years, and the piece that I have a hard time wrapping my head around is, since I’ve got here people have continuously professed that the Agency has not done a good job of providing the necessary equipment for them to reach their full potential. And if you set aside… let’s just not talk about the AG opinion for a second, just talk about the piece of providing the equipment that the Agency provides for cafeterias and snack bars and the other live operations we’re doing. We talk about providing vending equipment, I… I frankly… I don’t agree that the proposal wasn’t put together correctly. When people say facts are facts you can say whatever you want, but what it comes down to, this is an unprecedented amount of money being invested in the… in the program that, if it would’ve been done correctly over the last couple decades, would not be as big of a lift as it is this time around. So, I don’t understand why people are so resistant… I guess I… I understand. But to reach your full potential and not be hemmed in by fully sighted companies out there enabling people and not letting you run your own businesses for your full potential, the profit percentage increase that we estimated for this is not out of alignment with reasonable goals; it’s about ten percent more than what people are bringing in right this second, which is in total alignment with Tennessee. If you look it up on line, look up their rules, they have very specific standards for net profits and thirty percent is the target for their… their program. So it’s not… it’s not just, we worked it up financially from a different direction, other states have the exact same thing. So, you know, I… I want people to

reach their full potential and I… I’ve talked about that through the listening sessions, I’m talking about it tonight. We are going to give people the resources that they need to do that. And I think it’s disingenuous when people say year after year that if the Agency would only give us what we need then I could reach my full potential. But then when we say, “This is the proposal. We’re gonna get you the machinery and the support that you need to do that, people are like, “Hold the… hold the phone!” We… we can’t… people… all of a sudden there’s all these things coming up and so that, to me… I don’t know how to necessarily address that logically. So, um, we’ve… we’ve committed to fully supporting people through this. It’s not gonna be an overnight thing; I’m not gonna drop a hundred machines on somebody and say, “Go do your vending tomorrow,” because it’s just logistically not possible. And there will be a ton of active participation around the implementation of the program if we get the funding. And we’ll know if the funding’s gonna come through by early March ‘cause this session only lasts through the first week of March. So…

Gerlitz: Chairman Morris?

Miranda: Let him finish, please.

Morris: I… I think that’s all I got, Lewanda.

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: No. Kenny.

Gerlitz: I’m just wondering, have they ever given any thought, I mean, it gets back to us managing our business so they think it should be run, breaking down this money that they’re going to get and then divide it by the number of managers and just allocate it to them to spend it as they see fit. And that would be one way to see how well we… we do manage our program, rather than say, “Well, you need 20 machines” when maybe I need only 16 machines. I think it would, again, we keep talking about responsibility in managing but we don’t have too many opportunities where once we get into management just seems like when they have problems with it. I just wonder if that’s ever been a thought, to allow that money to actually be managed by the people it’s gonna effect.

Morris: Well, Ken, I think it’s… it is the responsibility of the Agency to provide the equipment. And the discussions around what the person… what each individual manager… I mean, we see the individual taking over what they have sub-contracted in place now. And if people say, “I don’t think it’s smart to have 20 machines, I think it’s smart to have 15 to make a bundle of money off those and the losers can either come back to the Agency and be sub-contracted for us to… for whatever. That’s gonna be a decision for each manager to make and I think a lot of managers are gonna really step up and make a lot more money. And Jerry Bird brings up a good point about procurement, and I think the Canteens of the world who have severe purchasing power are gonna be partners done the road when it comes to that kind of stuff. And I know that

NAMA is fully supportive of us being successful in this operation and, you know, are willing to help us through the process.

[two male voices at once]: Chair Miranda?

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Art.

A.Stevenson: Okay. First, let me say and, quite frankly, Terry Smith has said this more than once, Oregon is not Tennessee; Oregon does not have a proactive Attorney General’s office and we’ve got these crazy… crazy, um, Attorney General’s opinions that we have. Oregon is not Tennessee because we’re spread out like we are, we don’t have the resources to buy like Tennessee does, we don’t have the commissaries, we don’t have the things and, quite frankly, you know, that… that is what the problem here in Oregon is. Oregon has, I mean Tennessee has the 30% because, quite frankly, they have a much better program and they have a much better Attorney General office, um, and… and…

Morris: Hey, Art?

A.Stevenson: …they have ran their program correctly for a great many number of years better than we have. I’ve heard Terry say that, I’ve heard Mr. Freedman say that and, quite frankly, we’re a lot more spread out and stuff too. So, to project that Oregon is going to be a Tennessee by implementing this quote unquote project that the Commission has taken on is… is built again on another false premise and… and this is the big mistake the Agency keeps making. And, of course, us the fifteen low managers that are in the program tend to suffer for it. So Eric, I… I think you basing what’s going on here in Oregon to turn out like Tennessee, like I said, is a false premise. It is a pipe dream. Until we get a proactive Agency and we get a proactive Attorney General and… and we actually run our program like some of the successful states like Tennessee, Alabama, etc. etc. goes. So, that… that’s my comment.

Hauth: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yes?

Hauth: Yeah, I’d just like to say, talk about disingenuous Eric, how about hiding and sitting on this information and not providing it to the Elected Committee or the managers. Talk about disingenuous, how about not supporting active participation.

Morris: Randy, I think… you…

Hauth: How about…

Morris: …you can claim anything you want to claim, Randy. That’s just it.

Hauth: I’m talking. I’m talking. Don’t interrupt me, please.

Morris: Sure.

Hauth: Talk about… talking about disingenuous, I’m aboard of NAVA, which is the brother to NAMA. They do not support this initiative, so if you have information that counters that, which you just identified, I’d like to see that because we do not support it as NAVA and NAMA does not support it to the best of my law… knowledge. Also, your budget proposal was flawed from the get-go. So, even if you got this money, which I doubt you do because the Commission for the Blind is a black spot in the legislators’ assembly, you did not provide enough sustainability to even support the licensed blind vendors. So, you guys are ridiculous in even your request, but I’d like to see where you stated that you have that support from NAMA. Thank you very much. I think the Board needs to see that as well.

Bird: Jerry Bird. Quick one.

Miranda: Go ahead, Jerry, and then we’re gonna move on. I think we got [inaudible] consensus here.

Bird: Okay, thanks. My concern is I heard Eric kept saying “we… we” but it wasn’t us. Uh, and uh, he keeps saying that uh, you know, I might not be… I wouldn’t mind maybe… I possibly could… could fill some of my machines and make more money. But they went and waited so long that they started assigning people’s stuff that are a hundred miles away, you know? And then now they’re saying, “Well… if you can’t go fill it just turn it back in to us and we’ll take care of it.” You know, if they would’ve sit and talked to us we would… probably wouldn’t have minded doing ones that were within ten miles of our… of our… home or within, you know… I would’ve… I would’ve made sure Salem was mine. I would’ve stayed right here in Salem. So, if they would’ve talked and said, let’s have us do some of the ones that are close to us and that we know we can make profit, it might be different. But to pound it down and say they’re all illegal and if you’re not gonna go drive a hundred miles to… to take a cold food machine out every day, uh, then just give it back to us and we’ll subcontract it out. That’s not [inaudible]… so, that’s why we needed to discuss this stuff and we could’ve come up probably with a dang good idea on how some of us could use… use it for this and use it for that. Thanks.

[01:13:20]

D.Stevenson: This is Derrick.

Miranda: Okay, go ahead, Derrick, and then… and then we’re done with this.D.Stevenson: Okay. Um, I’d just like to say that, you know, Eric… Eric made a pretty good speech there and, you know, I don’t disagree that we need to… that it would be nice to go to the legislature and say, “Hey, we need… we need some money so that we can purchase equipment for… for the managers who wish to… to fill machines and… and need to.” Or “We

need money so we can upgrade our cafeterias and stuff.” But when they go and get a… opinion and then they’re trying to tell us that it’s illegal for us to subcontract that… that blows holes in everything that he said. You know, if you want to just go to the legislature and ask ‘em for money because we need it, that’s one thing. But to go to the legislature and ask for money because they’re saying we can no longer subcontract, that’s the thing that puts the… the hole in everything. I mean, you… you say you want to help the managers and… and do that and then… on one hand, and then on the other hand you’re telling ‘em that they can’t subcontract. That’s the key right here: you’re saying we can’t subcontract and I’m saying we can. And the Attorney General’s opinion does not say that we can’t.

Miranda: Okay, well I want to thank you for everybody’s sharing and Eric I know that you were interrupted earlier and you were gonna say something. Did you want to say anything?

Morris: I’m good.

Miranda: Okay.

Jackson: I’d like to say something else. Eric’s not my boss. I… I make my own hours; I… I make my business the best I can. He doesn’t… he doesn’t get to make all the decisions, you know?

Bird: You don’t need a parent?

Miranda: Okay, so uh…

Jackson: I’d like to work together but, man, let’s… let’s work more together.

Miranda: Okay, so we’re gonna move on to the, uh… subcommittees and I did send out to a couple of the managers and I only got response back from one. Um, so I think time… I have a letter to Gretchen at the AG’s office, the one that presented that, uh, open meeting training. So I’m gonna wait to get those back. And Randy, I would ask that, uh, hold off on having meetings until I hear back from her. I need to know how many… you know, what the open meeting laws are on subcommittees. I don’t know. Um, do you know, Randy?

Hauth: Well, I, you know, listening to the training it doesn’t appear that we as subcommittees fall within that. Now, if members of the committee actually are stripped off of the committee to form that, then that changes the dynamic. But I think managers who are not on the BECC, um, fall short of that. That’s everything that I can see, but I don’t… I mean, I don’t know that for sure, but that’s what it appeared to be.

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: So I…

A.Stevenson: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: So I will wait to get that confirmation. Yeah, Ran- uh, Art?

A.Stevenson: So, here… here’s the thing, okay? And I think you could go ahead and assign the committees, you can go ahead and have meetings that… that are posted and are open meetings and then if we find out later that… that we don’t necessarily have to have an open meeting…. But we can go ahead and do it and have open meetings, post… post the meetings and the phone number and allow people to listen and stuff. And we should go ahead; we don’t have to wait. We… as long… as long as we do have ‘em in open meetings until we get confirmation that it’s okay that we don’t. So, you know, my… my recommendation is go ahead and do it and state that these committees will meet in open meeting until we find out that they… they can meet without having an open meeting and then we got all the bases covered, Chair Miranda.

Miranda: Well, I’d also like to hear from more than just one uh, member on what kind of committees they think that would be beneficial to us. So, I’m gonna wait on that, but we will be having more meetings like this, uh, open meetings where everybody can share and have the transparency that… that we need. So.

Smith: Chair Miranda?

Miranda: Yes, Gordo?

Smith: This is Gordon again. It… it was really great to hear each and every person’s voice today; it’s been a long time. Uh, catch everybody on the go-round here.

Miranda: And we… we do need that. So. Okay, meeting’s adjourned.

[01:18:28]

Transcription: Mark Riesmeyer